325. The Twin Sleepwalking Murder

Summary

Podcast Summary: Murder With My Husband

Episode 325: The Twin Sleepwalking Murder
Date: June 15, 2026
Hosts: Peyton Moreland & Garrett Moreland

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Overview

In this gripping episode, Peyton and Garrett Moreland discuss the harrowing case of Benjamin and Megan Elliott, 17-year-old twins from Katy, Texas. What begins as an exploration of the close, almost inseparable bond shared by the twins quickly unravels into a chilling account of a death shrouded in confusion, trauma, and the rare but real phenomenon of homicidal sleepwalking. The episode dives deep into the night Megan was killed, the family’s devastation, the legal intricacies behind the “sleepwalking defense,” and the ultimate fate of Benjamin Elliott—all while raising unsettling questions about culpability, consciousness, and tragedy within families.

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Key Discussion Points & Case Breakdown

1. The Elliott Family and Twin Bond (05:13 – 10:38)

• Peyton sets the stage in Katy, Texas—a seemingly idyllic suburb—where Michael and Kathy Elliott raise their three children, including twins Ben and Megan. The pair are described as exceedingly close, “inseparable since the day they were conceived.”
• Ben: Soft-spoken, mechanically minded, protective over Megan.
• Megan: Creative, gentle, recently diagnosed with autism; just finding her social and artistic voice online.
• Both are enjoying their last year of high school, with plans to tour colleges and possibly go separate ways, supported by a loving family.
• Quote:

  “It's a bond that's never supposed to break. So when it does, it's not just shocking, it's unthinkable. Especially when those ties are severed from the inside.” —Peyton (05:13)

2. The Night of the Incident (10:38 – 15:17)

• On September 28, 2021, Ben receives a military-style knife from his father after admiring it during a video game session. He places it on his nightstand.
• Ben later wakes not in his bed but in Megan’s room, covered in blood, holding the knife—and finds his sister with a fatal neck wound.
• He frantically tries to save her, calls 911 at 4:41am, panicked and confused:

  “I just killed my sister. I thought it was a dream. Please, I don't want her to die. I'm so sorry.” —Ben on 911 call (12:03)

• Police and medics arrive, but Megan is pronounced dead at the scene.

3. Aftermath and Interrogation (19:10 – 23:53)

• Ben is taken in by police, repeating, “I thought it was a dream.” The family is kept from Megan, increasing their distress.
• During interrogation, Ben asserts he never meant harm, suggesting he was unaware and possibly asleep:

  “Have you ever had a really realistic nightmare where, like, just everything feels real but also kind of off at the same time?” —Ben to police (20:23)

• Ben has no known history of mental illness, family life is normal, and there is no apparent motive.

4. The Sleepwalking Defense and Investigation (30:40 – 36:38)

• Ben’s family—devastated but supportive—starts exploring sleepwalking ("parasomnia") as a possible explanation, referencing past family history and Ben’s sleep troubles.
• Psychiatrists find no evidence of schizophrenia or major mental disorders but do consider sleepwalking plausible—especially given Ben’s history and family reports of previous episodes.
• Garrett personally reflects on his own experiences sleepwalking as a teen, emphasizing its unpredictability.

5. Forensic Evidence and Legal Battle (42:31 – 54:49)

• Defense hires Dr. Gerald Simmons (neurologist), who diagnoses Ben with parasomnia—supported by sleep studies showing he enters deep sleep unusually fast and has markers for sleep disorders.
• Key Prosecution Points:
  • Ben spoke quietly on the 911 call, which they argue shows intent.
  • Use of the new knife soon after receiving it.
  • Lack of blood evidence suggests the pillow may have been used intentionally to stifle Megan’s screams.
  • Ben was “actively using” his phone just 20 minutes before the stabbing, casting doubt on whether he was truly asleep.
• Defense counters that none of the evidence points to motive; sleep studies make the sleepwalking claim plausible. Unable to definitively establish intent, they push for reasonable doubt.

6. The Courtroom and Verdict (50:54 – 59:39)

• The prosecution and defense experts disagree: one supports the parasomnia claim, the other doubts it—without ever examining Ben directly.
• The prosecution even accuses the parents of colluding to help Ben with the sleepwalking alibi.

  “I want you to look in this courtroom. There are so many people here for Benjamin, and there is not one person here for Megan...” —Prosecutor Megan Long (56:05)

• The jury deliberates for 5 hours. Many had personal or family histories with sleepwalking.
• Verdict: Ben is found guilty of first-degree murder, but the jury requests leniency, recognizing the family’s extreme suffering.
• Sentence: 15 years in prison with eligibility for parole in 2032.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the 911 Call:

  “I thought it was a dream. I took my knife and I stabbed her. Please, I don't want her to die. I'm so sorry.” —Ben (12:03)

• Garrett’s Reaction:

  “Oh my gosh. I cannot. This is insane.” (12:51)

• On Sleepwalking:

  “I used to sleepwalk pretty bad...I would walk around the house, I would go and talk to people, and I had no idea.” —Garrett (31:10)

• Courtroom Tension:

  “There are so many people here for Benjamin, and there is not one person here for Megan, which is, like, actually insane.” —Prosecutor Megan Long (56:05)

• After the Verdict:

  “Oh, man, that's not what I was expecting, but here we are.” —Garrett (58:27)

• On Uncertainty:

  “Because at the end of the day, it really just comes down, do you believe him or not?” —Peyton (60:35)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Case Introduction & Twin Dynamics: 05:13 – 10:38
• The Murder & 911 Call: 11:25 – 15:17
• Aftermath / Interrogation: 19:10 – 23:53
• The Sleepwalking Defense: 30:40 – 36:38
• Prosecution Case & Counterpoints: 42:31 – 54:49
• Closings, Verdict & Sentencing: 50:54 – 59:39
• Discussion on Doubt & Responsibility: 60:00 – End

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Analysis & Reflections

• Both hosts emphasize the heartbreak and complexity of the case, especially from the parental perspective: feeling torn between supporting their only living twin and grieving for their lost daughter.
• The science behind sleepwalking remains difficult for juries and the public to fully grasp, making such cases uniquely challenging.
• Garrett repeatedly voices his personal doubt and empathy, drawing on his own sleepwalking experience to highlight uncertainty over intent and culpability.
• The prosecution’s zealous tactics and attempts to portray the family as co-conspirators are criticized by both hosts as overreaches.
• The episode closes with Peyton and Garrett expressing their own ambivalence, inviting listeners to weigh in on a case with no easy answers but devastating consequences for all involved.

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Final Thoughts:
This episode delves into the blurry lines between accident and intent, grief and justice, family loyalty and objective truth. The case of Benjamin and Megan Elliott raises profound questions about how we understand—and judge—the actions that occur when the mind is at rest but the body is not. Both Peyton and Garrett leave listeners with a clear sense of the sadness and ambiguity that lingers long after the verdict.

Transcript

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[Peyton Moreland]

You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. Hey everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder with my husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.

[Garrett Moreland]

And I'm Garrett Moreland.

[Peyton Moreland]

And he's the husband.

[Garrett Moreland]

And I'm the husband. Hey everybody, what's up? How's it going? How's life? Tell me something. Actually, did you see that when I told everyone to tell me something Cool.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

Or tell me something.

[Peyton Moreland]

The comments.

[Garrett Moreland]

We had some pretty amazing comments. One lady finished chemotherapy, she's cancer free, she rang the bell.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

Pretty amazing. Congratulations. Keep telling us what's going on in your guys life. I know we get a lot of DMs and a lot of messages, but comment, let us know what's going on. Let us know what accomplishments you have in your life. Small, big anything, Love it. What accomplishments do you got this week? Babe?

[Peyton Moreland]

I worked a full shift.

[Garrett Moreland]

Peyton did work at the bagel shop today. She did good. She did great. Daisy got a haircut. She's looking pretty. She was getting pretty long. She was not very happy about it, but that's okay. And then I'm just gonna jump into my 10 seconds here. You know one thing that I think is impossible to fix? I don't even know if fix is the correct answer. Whether you're cooking food at home, you're cooking food in a restaurant, you go out to eat in a restaurant. Just I Maybe it's just a me issue, but it happens at the bagel shop all the time. I just. I come home, I smell like everything. Bagels or whatever bagels we're making, just pure. Just. I smell like bagels. Same thing happens even when I go out to eat, though. I go out to a restaurant, I smell like food. Whether I go out to Mexican food, an Asian place, American place, whatever it is, I smell like food at home. Same thing. Cook food at home, Boom. Entire house stinks. Like, those hoods don't work. Nothing works. You just smell like food. I don't like that because then you got to go shower. And then. Maybe it's just an OCD thing, but I hate it. My hair smells like it. My clothes smell like it. Like, I hate it. I hate going out to a restaurant and then going home, and then I'm just like, dang. But there's nothing you can do about it. No matter where you go, it just happens. No.

[Peyton Moreland]

The worst. As a girl, nothing you can do. You do hair wash day. Because hair wash day takes so long to wash, so long to blow dry, so long to style. And then you go out to eat, and you're it.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah. Then you smell like that.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

There really is nothing you can do. It just is what it is. Anyways, that's my 10 seconds. It's something I think about because, I mean, it happens to me every day now, and there's no escaping it. I don't know. I don't know why it bugs me, but here we are. Well, it bugs Peyton, too, so it's not just me. Anyways, that's my 10 seconds. Other than that, we're chilling, recording podcast episodes, working, Working at the bagel shop a lot, hanging out with Daisy and living life, making content. So, yeah, that's what we got. And I think. On that note, let's hop into this

[Peyton Moreland]

week's case, our sources for this episode.

[Garrett Moreland]

Sorry, I have to say. Sorry, I interrupted. Peyton, our mics still bring out the craziest lisp when I talk. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you guys. I feel like it's not. Is it this bad in person? Like, do I have a lisp like this? Like, have you listened to the episodes recently?

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, I think the mic makes it worse.

[Garrett Moreland]

Right. I don't know what it is. Anyways, okay, let's hop into today's case.

[Peyton Moreland]

Our sources for this episode are longcrime.com dailymail.co.uk sandhills express.com thedailybeast.com kens5.com medium.com abc13.com moviedelic.com courttv.com the cinemaholic.com people.com symbiotica.com cbs news.com khou.com fox26houston.com aetv.com and aol.com aol

[Garrett Moreland]

I haven't used AOL in years.

[Peyton Moreland]

I think it's fair to say that the relationships we have with our siblings can become some of the most complicated in our life. That constant shift between love and affection, annoyance and competition. One day they're your best friend, the only person who could possibly understand you, and the next, you can't stand to be in the same room with them. So take that and imagine being a twin. It's a connection that most of us could never understand. Sharing a womb, sharing a life every step of the way, literally sharing the same DNA. There's even theories that suggest twins might be telepathically connected. That they can feel each other's emotions, sense when something is wrong without a single word being spoken. It's a bond that's never supposed to break. So when it does, it's not just shocking, it's unthinkable. Especially when those ties are severed from the inside. Which is why the question we'll be asking in today's case is was this intentional? Or do stronger bonds lead to more devastating destruction? And disclaimer before we start, this episode does include discussions on the death of a minor. So please, as always, listen with care. And today I want to take you to a little suburb outside of Houston, Texas. And this suburb is called Katy. It is here in this town of about 25,000 people that Michael and Kathy Elliott have chosen to raise their family, their three kids, including their 17 year old twins, Benjamin and Megan Elliott. Okay, so this, this suburb, Katy, is the kind of place you imagine when you think of an all American slice of life. I'm talking freshly manicured lawns, kids riding their bikes, the street lights coming on just before dark. And while most kids work hard to make and maintain friendships, even in a place as cute and picturesque as this, Ben and Megan haven't ever had to feel lonely because they're twins. They have each other. And according to everyone who knew them, they really were best friends.

[Garrett Moreland]

They.

[Peyton Moreland]

They were inseparable since the day they were conceived. Ben always looked out for Megan. She was his safe space. The one she'd run to when she felt overwhelmed, bullied, shy. And he loved being her protector. The one who she could always count on they went to the same school together, they ran in the same group of friends. They had a lot of the same interests, but they had their own little quirks as well. Benjamin was a little bit more soft spoken, he was kind of an engineer with a brain for mechanics and problem solving. And Megan was more the creative type. She was intuitive, empathetic. She loved writing, drawing, kind of being an artist in every facet of the word. Her friends and family said she was the kind of person who saw beauty in the tiny things in life. And her art was how she turned those little details into, into something worth remembering. The sound of a bird in the morning, the way the sun reflected off the walls. She was a gentle soul who was just starting to come out of her shell. In 2021, at 17 years old, she was beginning to make her own group of friends online. She'd actually just launched her own YouTube channel to showcase her art. She was finding her own place in the world, kind of an identity outside of being Benjamin's twin sister. Which probably wasn't easy for Megan, especially after she was diagnosed with autism in her teens. Luckily her home life was stable. Her parents were supportive, embraced their twins individuality. Their mom Kathy was a senior manager for the Girl Scouts of America while their father Michael was a stay at home dad. And they also had an older sister, Elizabeth, who Megan could look up to and confide in for the girlier things in Life. Now in 2021, the twins were looking forward to their futures. Whether that was together or separate was still uncertain. They had been touring separate colleges, kind of looked like they might really go their own way soon. But for now it seemed like they were soaking up the last year of high school together. They were getting along, everything seemed great at home. But that all changed in September. Now the night of September 28, 2021 was like any other night in the Elliot household. Ben had been home from school for the last two days sick. But apparently on this night he's feeling better. So he and his father spent hours playing different video games while Megan was just off in her room doing her own thing. And one of the games Benjamin and his dad played that night was called Survive the Nights.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

And it's basically a post apocalyptic survival game. And in it Ben mentioned how one of the knives the character used, it's kind of like a military style weapon, looked a lot like one of the knives that his dad owned. It was one he'd actually had his eye on for a while. So his dad at this point, Michael puts the game on Pause. Goes and gets this military style knife and says, if you like it, like if you've been wanting it, just have it. Like if you love it so much, just have it. So that night, Ben goes to sleep in his own room with this knife his dad has given him on his nightstand.

[Garrett Moreland]

I. I have no idea where this is going. I mean, I think I do now, but.

[Peyton Moreland]

But several hours later, in the morning of September 29, Benjamin allegedly wakes up. Only he discovers he's not laying down in his bed. It's the middle of the night. Instead, he's standing in his twin sister Megan's room.

[Garrett Moreland]

The freak out. Get out of here right now.

[Peyton Moreland]

And according to him, he feels something sticky on his hands. He looks down and notices he is covered in blood.

[Garrett Moreland]

There is no way he just killed his twin sister.

[Peyton Moreland]

And there's Megan, barely breathing from a stab wound in her neck. Ben's hand, when he wakes up, is still wrapped around the knife his father gave him the night before. Everything starts unfolding. Ben places a pillow on Megan to stop the bleeding and then races back to his bedroom for his phone. It is about 4:41am when he dials 91 1. His voice is trembling like you can hear it. It's panicked. And he says, I just killed my sister. And as the operator keeps him talking, he claims, I thought it was a dream. I thought it was a dream. I took my knife and I stabbed her. Please, I don't want her to die. I'm so sorry.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh my gosh. I cannot. This is insane.

[Peyton Moreland]

So the operator is like, go wake up your parents. And you can literally hear on this recorded call. This is something that I had watched multiple times before, even like creating the script for this case. But you can hear on the recorded call when he starts screaming frantically for them, like he just, he just starts yelling in the middle of the night. His father quickly comes rushing into the room and obviously he comes in and sees the sight. His daughter is laying there, pale, barely breathing. And when he's like, what happened? And again, you can hear this, Benjamin quickly says, I killed Megan. I'm so sorry. It's words you never expect to hear.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh my gosh, I'm like sick to my stomach. I don't know, I don't, I don't know what I would do.

[Peyton Moreland]

Right?

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't know what I would do.

[Peyton Moreland]

You just never expect your child to say this about your other child, especially when it's twins. These two are allegedly best friends, super close. Now, after the dad comes rushing in, the mother, Kathy, comes Rushing in. Ben is still on the line with 91 1. So we can hear all of this. And 911 is walking him through CPR. He is frantically doing chest compressions on his sister when the medics and the police show up just a few minutes later. And from this point, the audio from the 911 call is now switched to police body cam. So all of this next scene I've watched on police body cam, the family is, like, frantically removed from the scene so police and EMTs can basically try and resuscitate Megan. And meanwhile, on this footage, Ben is, like, just yelling out into the void for someone to wake him up.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like, it's almost like he doesn't believe he's in shock.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like, he still thinks he's in a nightmare. But this isn't the end of a nightmare. It's literally just the beginning of one. Because while the paramedics and police know, as they're working on Megan, that she is already dead, like, this wound to her neck was devastating immediately. And they pronounce her dead at the scene.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my God.

[Peyton Moreland]

They refuse to tell the family. For some reason, they don't tell them immediately, like, yeah, she's gone. They just leave the family who's just kind of like, what do you mean, he killed her? Like, the parents are in complete shock in this footage.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

And they're. I mean, it's so devastating. At one point, the dad, like, looks at the brother Ben and is like, what did you do? Yeah, like, how? Why did you do this? And Ben's like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Like, it is just, like, devastating footage.

[Garrett Moreland]

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[Peyton Moreland]

Don't say that publicly. I've seen people get, like, actually, oh, this just thrown around online for feeling

[Garrett Moreland]

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[Peyton Moreland]

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[Peyton Moreland]

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[Garrett Moreland]

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[Peyton Moreland]

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[Garrett Moreland]

They're in their own home 100%.

[Peyton Moreland]

They know that their daughter's in there. They had seen the first initial, you know, crime scene of her being clearly unwell.

[Garrett Moreland]

I'm not sure if I agree with not telling the parents of the child and not letting.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like, they're like, no, you can't go in there. You can't go in there.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't think I agree with that.

[Peyton Moreland]

So they're frustrated, and they call a close friend of theirs who is an attorney. And basically at this point, they realize this is next steps. Like, their son just got put in a police cruiser in handcuffs. Yeah, the police aren't letting them inside to see their daughter. And they're like, okay, we need an attorney. Because by the time the sun comes up, Benjamin is sitting across from Harris County Sheriff's detectives in their interrogation room. And again, this is all on video. They want to know exactly, in Ben's own words, what happened that morning. Or, like, they're like, hey, now that some time has passed, we need to know every single detail. The way he describes it is like this quote. Have you ever had a really realistic nightmare where, like, just everything feels real but also kind of off at the same time. He explains to police that he had been dreaming he had stabbed his sister. And then when he woke up, the knife was in his hand. He was in her room and realized he had actually stabbed her. He tells them right away, like, I never made the conscious decision to do this. And during this interview, Benjamin is continuing to ask, like, is she alive? Is she Alive. Because he still doesn't know.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

And he's trying, like, he's focusing more on that than the actual interrogation.

[Garrett Moreland]

This is so sad and just mind blowing.

[Peyton Moreland]

So instead of telling him the truth, they decide to not let him know if she's alive or dead yet. So one of the detectives says, last he checked, she was being examined. She was in the care of EMTs, but they already know that his sister is dead. But keeping this from him was apparently just like an interrogation tactic, a manipulation tactic, and one they knew would keep Benjamin talking. Because they figure once, based on how he's acting, once they said, yeah, she's dead, he was going to just, like, lose it. Lose it? Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

Well, I mean, yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

And then what he says next only makes them more confused. He then tells detectives that, no, like, our relationship was good. I would never do anything to hurt Megan. She's my twin sister. I love her. There was no competition, no sibling rivalry. We hang out with all the same people. Like, there was absolutely no reason for me to do this intentionally. He tells the police, you can search my phone. Like, he offers up his phone. Here, have my phone. Gives them the password. And when asked, Ben does tell them, I've never been diagnosed with any sort of mental health condition. I'm happy. We have a very happy home. Like, there's no problems at home. He was looking forward to college next year. He was going to study to be a mechanical engineer. He even tells the police, I'm supposed to take the SAT next weekend. But things really trigger detectives when around 11am that morning, they do finally break the news to Benjamin. They tell him, okay, Megan did not survive her injuries. She's gone. And again, the reason they had been putting off telling him this was because they were like, he's gonna just be so distraught. He's not gonna be able to answer any more questions. When they say this to him, he goes, hmm, not a cry or a scream. Hmm. Like, interesting. Like, it's a very odd response based on, like, how he had been reacting.

[Garrett Moreland]

What?

[Peyton Moreland]

It's just an odd response, but again,

[Garrett Moreland]

yeah, I don't know. Judging the situation currently, judge someone who,

[Peyton Moreland]

if innocent, if completely innocent, if what he is saying is true. I don't know how you really judge his reaction to being told that because it's almost like he just like, goes frozen, like, in shock is what it seems. The response to the question is so, like, off putting. Like, when he does it, it is a little eerie and uncomfortable. He's like, hmm, okay. It becomes one of those critical moments. In a case where, like, this is what makes people question everything a little bit, because his behavior is just not what you would expect from a brother who found out he just murdered his twin sister. Everything up till now, yes. On par with what you would think if he was really innocent. So this is when police are like, we got to keep looking at this. For example, they find it interesting that in Benjamin's retelling of that morning, he says that he only stabbed his sister once, though he admitted the whole thing felt hazy. He's like. It's like, I'm trying to remember a dream. Like, I remember the stabbing, but it was in a dream to me. So he's like, this is what I remember. But Megan's autopsy tells a different story. According to the medical examiner, Megan had been stabbed not once but twice. And one of the wounds had severed her carotid artery and jugular vein.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay. I mean, once. Twice. I thought you were gonna say, like, 10 times. You know what I'm saying?

[Peyton Moreland]

Like, well, police are just like he said, once. There's obviously two stab wounds. Did he stab her once? And then the second stab wound is what woke him up. So now he thinks it was only once.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

But.

[Garrett Moreland]

Huh.

[Peyton Moreland]

Either way, very quickly, like, I'm talking this same day, Benjamin Elliot is charged for the murder of his twin sister. Now, whether police believe his story or not, I think this could just be considered protocol because even if you admit to manslaughter, you're still going to be, like, charged with it. You know what I mean? So for the next several days, Benjamin is placed on suicide watch while his family is working to pay his bail. And before I go on, imagine his

[Garrett Moreland]

parents, and I don't want to. I just cannot imagine being in that situation. Like, I cannot imagine losing a child and then trying to figure out if your other child, like, what's going on,

[Peyton Moreland]

and, like, you don't want them in

[Garrett Moreland]

prison if you believe that other child. Like, that mental, just. Maze. I. I can't.

[Peyton Moreland]

And when I tell you this, like, the body cam footage is footage that has stayed with me for a really long time because the pure confusion and devastation that these parents go through.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, I 100 on this body cam

[Peyton Moreland]

of, like, bewilderment and anger at their son because their daughter is dead. Dead, but also being like, it's gonna be okay. We're gonna get you an attorney because your son's looking at you going, I don't know. I don't know. I thought it was a Dream. I don't know, like I. The just the dichotomy of the entire situation of being like the victim of or the parent of the victim and the parent of the murderer.

[Garrett Moreland]

The whole thing is very perplexing.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like it just, I'm like hard to believe.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like it just doesn't, I guess it's not clocking, it just doesn't make sense. Like it's not a believable situation. But this is obvious obviously the situation we're in. So it's.

[Peyton Moreland]

And Even though like this 911 call and the body cam tugs on your heartstrings, it is not that surprising that police are like sleepwalking.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh no, you know what I mean?

[Peyton Moreland]

Like it is a little confusing.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't blame. Because they also need to do their due diligence to make sure that it's true. It's true I hundred percent.

[Peyton Moreland]

Which is like why when they realize it was two stab wounds versus one even they're like, well and then it didn't bleed fast, you know what I mean? He is finally released on bond the following Sunday. Kathy and Michael, his parents, are waiting for him. They have lived every single day with these kids. And when Benjamin tells them again all of this happened as the result of a sleepwalking episode, his parents firmly believe him. They've already lost one child, they're not going to lose another one too. So they decide, yep, we are fighting for Benjamin. We are fighting for the story that he is telling everyone about this murder. During the car ride home, they tell Benjamin they love him. They know he didn't mean to do this. They can see the remorse in his eyes. But that doesn't mean that they aren't scared of what might come next. The Elliot's know they can't be in their home after that day. So they then move into Kathy's mother's house and worried about Ben's own safety, they start sleeping in his room with him and like taking shifts watching him in the night. And eventually they even install an alarm on his bedroom door that alerts them if the bedroom door opens in the night. Because they're like, we don't want another episode. Of course the lingering question in all of this is why would Benjamin do something like this? Or rather from their perspective, how does something like this happen? Well that's why Ben's parents, along with his lawyers, immediately start looking for answers. Answers Ben himself doesn't seem to have. Now as they're trying to like figure out how exactly is his story possible, his mother Kathy has A theory. She tells the lawyers that her own father was diagnosed with schizophrenia, and now she's worried that Ben was having a break and was possibly dealing with similar symptoms.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

But when they sit him down with a psychiatrist, they find nothing alarming about Ben's mental health. There's no signs of schizophrenia, no signs of bipolar disorder. But they do think it's possible Ben was actually sleepwalking and thought he was in a dream when he killed Megan.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, man. I don't know what that does. Legally.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't know how that plays out.

[Peyton Moreland]

There's actually a word for it. His lawyers believe he was experiencing something called parasomnia. It's something we've covered, actually, before. If you remember the case of Scott Filet.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes, yes.

[Peyton Moreland]

In Phoenix. He killed his wife. He claimed it was correct. Sleepwalking. He doesn't. It doesn't. Like, they don't believe him. The jury didn't believe him. If you remember, he was convicted. Parasomnia, however, works as an umbrella term for a bunch of different sleep disorders.

[Garrett Moreland]

I used to sleepwalk pretty bad, See?

[Peyton Moreland]

And I've never slept, walked. And to me, the thought of sleepwalking feels just as impossible as this.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, I used to sleepwalk pretty bad. Like, when I don't anymore. I stopped a long time ago. Probably by the time I was 18, it stopped. But, like, in my young teen years, oh, I would walk around the house, I would go and talk to people, and I had no idea, like, that my parents would the next morning and be like, you came and talked to us last night for two hours. I'm like, what are you talking about?

[Peyton Moreland]

See, to me, it's just, like, I

[Garrett Moreland]

would legit walk around and just do things, and I would wake up and I was like, what?

[Peyton Moreland]

To me, I'm glad I saw it

[Garrett Moreland]

because it scared me.

[Peyton Moreland]

Then murdering someone in a dream, if you're fully able to be dreaming and having a conversation with someone is possible.

[Garrett Moreland]

I. I mean, yeah, I think. I mean, just because I used to sleepwalk and, like, I know, like, I literally would just do things, but to

[Peyton Moreland]

me, that just seems so.

[Garrett Moreland]

Which, I mean, I totally. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

But, like, again, if I woke up and you were, like, sleepwalking and then I realized, like, you were asleep and,

[Garrett Moreland]

like, scare the crap out of that.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like, you're standing and talking and asleep would scare me so bad.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's weird. I don't know how I did it. I don't know why I stopped, but I haven't done it in 12 years. I mean, longer than that. Probably 15 years.

[Peyton Moreland]

Don't ever do it again.

[Garrett Moreland]

I'll try not to, because now I

[Peyton Moreland]

am the victim of your sleepwalking. So, again, just to quickly give some background, parasomnia is an umbrella. Basically, different sleep disorders, things that cause people to carry out certain behaviors in their sleep. Essentially, the body is awake while the brain is still sleeping. Just your typical sleepwalking. And sometimes people are dreaming, and that can allow someone to act out their dreams. Doctors claim that certain people are more prone to experiencing parasomnia. So this is definitely a real thing, like those experiencing more stress, sleep deprivation, some medications have even been attributed to sleepwalking. And of course, having a family history of it makes you prone, too. But the more the family starts digging into it, they believe, the more they realize maybe the signs were there all along. It started off with little things, mostly because, I mean, Benjamin's history is about to get fully blown open to try to determine if he could have this severe case of parasomnia. Benjamin always had a hard time falling asleep. In waking up, he usually had to set a few different alarms for school in the morning to make sure he actually heard them. And when they look back at their family tree, Kathy also recalls an uncle who used to sleepwalk when he was a teenager. She said he would sometimes wake up outside in the garage holding, like, tools that you would like work on that he kept in the garage. She said there was another time when her uncle had walked in on his sister showering again. Supposedly he was sleepwalking, though a similar thing happened to Kathy's aunt one time. She walked out of the house and into the woods in the middle of the night. And when she woke up or came game too, she realized she was outside holding on to her family's dog.

[Garrett Moreland]

Here's the thing is, I think this is possible. Like I 100 think it.

[Peyton Moreland]

But is it what happened?

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes, that's what I'm trying to figure out. And I'm sure that's what everyone else is trying to figure out.

[Peyton Moreland]

As for Benjamin, they do report this was not his first case of sleepwalking. When questioned, his older sister Elizabeth says she actually once witnessed Benjamin herself. She said one night when Ben was around 10, he walked into her bedroom doorway. When she said his name a few times, and he, like, didn't really respond, she realized he was just asleep. She said she touched his shoulder, saw that his eyes barely opened, and she just led him gently back to bed. Now, one of Benjamin's friends remembered an incident, too. He said Benjamin was at a sleepover at his friend's house. And when the friend woke up, they saw Benjamin was on the couch eating a donut, but he was asleep.

[Garrett Moreland]

See, that's the type of stuff I did. I would sleepwalk and I would drink soda.

[Peyton Moreland]

That's weird.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't know what to tell you, babe.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, see, to me, that just seems totally plausible then.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, no, it seems 100% plausible. I'm just trying to figure out if it's what happened, but it is. I would go. I would drink soda. I would, like, do things. It's freaky. I'm glad I stopped because it scares me even talking about it.

[Peyton Moreland]

That is so scary.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's scary.

[Peyton Moreland]

Apparently, his friends. Okay, imagine this at a sleepover, right? Like, he's just sitting there eating a donut. They think this is so funny. So they wake him up. And when they wake him up, Ben is like, what's going on?

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like, why am I sitting here? And he is baffled about the fact that he's sitting on this couch eating a donut. And it's like a whole ordeal. And they ask him. They're like, you were asleep. And he's like, I literally was dreaming I was eating a donut. That's what he tells his friends.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay?

[Peyton Moreland]

I was dreaming I was eating a donut, and then here I am, like, actually eating one.

[Garrett Moreland]

My sleepwalking wasn't like that. I would just wake up the next day and remember. No, no. They would tell me what I did, and I'm like, what do you. There's no way I did that. Like, I would never remember anything.

[Peyton Moreland]

That's so crazy.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

The problem is, although I've told you guys this, none of this can actually be considered evidence.

[Garrett Moreland]

Why?

[Peyton Moreland]

Because it's, you know, sure, it supports the claims that Benjamin could have been sleepwalking when he killed Megan, but it's all circumstantial. And what they really needed was to scientifically prove that this was a real condition, that Benjamin had number one and could not control number two.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay? If you're a pet parent like us, you know about Chewy. And when they say they have everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy, they are not messing around. Peyton and I love Chewy. They have everything. Food, treats, beds, you name it, they have it. And it gets shipped directly to your door in one to two days. And not just for dogs and cats, birds, fish, reptiles, and more. To keep them healthy, Chewy offers pet insurance, telehealth, vet visits, and is even rolling out vet clinics across the country. And personal story from us when Daisy was really sick one time we went on Chewy and got everything we needed. We talked to someone, it was like 11 o' clock at night on their customer service. It was super helpful. We seriously love Chewy.

[Peyton Moreland]

Chewy has everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy. And right now you can save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to chupanions chewy.com murder with my husband that is chupanions.chewy.com murderwithmyhusband to save 20 on your first order with free shipping chupanions.chewy dot com murder with my husband Minimum purchase required. New customers only. Terms and conditions apply. C Site for complete details Right you guys, we are getting into an ad and as you know Garrett is completely fluent in Spanish and we like to travel places where the language spoke is primarily Spanish and that kind of sometimes leaves me in a pickle. But that is where Babel comes in and saves me. I love to brush up on Babel before I travel to anywhere where I am going to need to be speaking slash understanding Spanish. And it works so fast and seriously, so helpful. If you're traveling this summer, here's a real travel hack. Don't wait until you land to start learning the language. Instead, try babel. Even just 10 minutes a day with Babel can help you start having real conversations in as little as three weeks. So instead of memorizing random vocab, you're learning phrases you'd use in while traveling, like ordering dinner, asking for directions, talking with locals. They have interactive dialogue, personalized reviews, even podcasts. And unlike cramming before a trip, Babel fits into your actual schedule. Babel's award winning app has sold over 25 million subscriptions and is backed by a 14 day money back guarantee. If learning a new language is on your bucket list or you are going to be going somewhere where being able to keep up is a little helpful, please, please please check out Babel. I am telling you it is super helpful and you will learn. If you've got summer travel coming up, now's the time to start so you can actually use what you learn on the trip. Right now Babel is offering listeners up to 60% off. Go to babel.com husband that's Babbel B A B B E L.com husband B for up to 60% off.

[Garrett Moreland]

And again, if you want to speak Spanish like Garrett, go check out Babel.

[Peyton Moreland]

Rules and restrictions may apply so the defense team hires some help, a neurologist who happens to Be a leading expert in sleep disorders. This guy named Dr. Gerald Simmons. Now, Dr. Simmons conducts two different studies with Ben in his labs. Each one performed about six weeks apart. He hooks Ben up to a bunch of different equipment that will monitor pretty much everything that happens to his body while he's asleep. Oxygen levels, brain waves, eye movement, heart rate, you name it. And one of the first things Dr. Simmons notices is that Ben definitely has something called obstructive sleep apnea, basically meaning one of his air passages is slightly blocked, which results in a lack of oxygen. And obviously, if you're not getting enough oxygen can create big issues for healthy sleep patterns. And a lack of oxygen is tied to issues like sleepwalking. When people sleepwalk, they're usually in a specific stage of sleep called non rem slow wave sleep. It's the deepest form. Right. Now, after hooking Benjamin up, Dr. Simmons doesn't get to witness any sleepwalking episodes himself, but he notices something else. Benjamin falls into this deepest stage of sleep a lot faster than most people do. The average healthy person usually enters non REM slow wave sleep about 30 to 40 minutes after they've fallen asleep. Ben typically entered it 11 minutes after falling asleep. And maybe because of this, because of how quickly he went into a deep sleep, Ben's brain activity was far more active than the average person's would be during this stage because his brain didn't have enough time to, like, fully, fully shut down. Basically, Dr. Simmons was finding evidence that Ben had not made up this sleepwalking alibi. He says there is definitely patterns in these sleep studies that are indicative of parasomnia. In fact, he's so sure of this that he formally signs off on it. He diagnoses Ben with this, and the Elliots are hoping, okay, maybe this is enough to just drop the charges entirely.

[Garrett Moreland]

No, there's no way a prosecution. I don't think no. Would do that.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, prosecution was already building their own case against Benjamin. They. This case had kind of gone viral a little bit. And as we know, when there is virality behind a case, prosecutions have a little bit of fire underneath them to really close a case. Just. Just one plus one equals two. And according to the prosecution, they had seen a few signs that made them think this might have been an intentional murder after all. Okay, so this is what they say. There were a few red flags. Detectives noticed almost from the moment Benjamin placed that 911 call. They found it strange that initially on the 911 call, Ben was speaking in hushed tones. So when he calls, he's like, I've stabbed my sister. I've stabbed my sister. They don't understand why he hadn't even woken up his parents or was screaming or being loud, not even caring about waking up his parents until the operator was like, go wake your parents up.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't know if that sticks out to me as a red flag.

[Peyton Moreland]

I agree with you.

[Garrett Moreland]

And just because you never know what you're going to do in an absolute insane situation.

[Peyton Moreland]

I also think, like, habits are habits, and if you're. If you're not clearly thinking, like, at night, in the household I grew up

[Garrett Moreland]

in, I would have whispered, people talk softer. They want to wake anybody up.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, I wouldn't have wanted to wake anyone.

[Garrett Moreland]

Have you ever been woken up from, like, a deep sleep and then you're just like, holy?

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

What is going on right now?

[Peyton Moreland]

It's like. It's like, it's very medicated.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's very confusing.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yes.

[Garrett Moreland]

Not that I'm defending Kim. I'm just pointing out what I see as red flags and don't. So don't see that as a red flag.

[Peyton Moreland]

In fact, his own father's like, it wasn't even Ben's voice that woke us up. It was the operator's voice on speakerphone that woke us up. And so the prosecution's like, this is because Ben was preventing his parents from witnessing his sister's death for as long as possible. They're like, he wanted her to bleed out, so he didn't want to wake his parents. He didn't want to, like, face reality. Maybe, Maybe, okay, this is what the prosecution says. But it also doesn't help Ben's case that one of the lead prosecutors experiences sleepwalking herself. So she's going to come in and be like, well, I have slept walk, and this is not what.

[Garrett Moreland]

I've never killed anyone, for example.

[Peyton Moreland]

Especially because, again, we just discovered parasomnia is a very detailed. There are very different versions.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's just such a poor way to look at things in life. Like, that's just not. It's just not reality.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's also silly to think that your experience dictates another person's experience.

[Garrett Moreland]

Exactly.

[Peyton Moreland]

Anything. Right.

[Garrett Moreland]

It's not reality. It's such a. That's just stupid. Take.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's human of us to try to

[Garrett Moreland]

relate, but it's just not.

[Peyton Moreland]

But it's just not reality.

[Garrett Moreland]

I mean, it's no different than, like, two people being sick or two people experiencing the same pain, and one person being like that hurt so much. Well, I've Experienced it, and it didn't even hurt that much.

[Peyton Moreland]

It's like when people are like, oh, I got a tattoo on here, and it was the worst pain ever. And then someone's like, I got that tattoo, and it didn't even hurt.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay, big guy, calm down. It's like, I hate that. I hate people could try to compare like that.

[Peyton Moreland]

Now, her name, this prosecutor's name, is Megan Long. This is not her first sleepwalking case either.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, interesting. Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

She successfully prosecuted a case back in 2019 after Guy had claimed he'd shot his wife during a sleepwalking.

[Garrett Moreland]

I mean, I get it. Look, I get that this is a very. Like, it's a good way to try to get away with 100 killing somebody. 100. Get that.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like, what if it's true too, though? What if there's more than one person who has killed someone in their sleep?

[Garrett Moreland]

I know. I know.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because if it's like, if it's possible with one, it's possible with another. So she found it odd that no one else in Benjamin's immediate family had a history of sleepwalking since. From her experience, that's usually when it's a big factor. Aunts and uncles, she felt, were a little too far removed. But again, this prosecutor is not a doctor, which is why they hire their own expert, a psychologist named Dr. Mark Pressman, to help them analyze the case. And from what he's seen, sleepwalkers really only become aggressive when someone physically tries to intervene. He basically explains aggression, and sleepwalking is more a reflex than, like, something you initiate. And there were no signs that Megan fought back, but there were signs that this attack might have been more thought out. If you remember, Ben had put a pillow on his sister to stop her bleeding.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes, I thought that was weird when you said that, because I'm like, to

[Peyton Moreland]

stop her bleeding, but detectives are like, was that pillow there because he put it on top of her before stabbing her so she couldn't scream.

[Garrett Moreland]

Good point. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

When he stabbed her. And why do they think this? At the crime scene, there is no blood spatter on the walls or anywhere else in the room, which to them means the pillow was there when the stabbing happened and blocked blood from shooting outwards.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, okay. That's a good point. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

And speaking of the knife, they also found it suspicious that the stabbing happened only hours after Ben was given the murder weapon. If you recall, Michael gave it to Ben after he saw a similar one in a video game earlier that night. Ben took it to his room with him, put it on his nightstand and then a few hours later, stabbed his sister to death with it.

[Garrett Moreland]

The reason I don't see that as a red flag because I actually think, like, maybe that video game induced some sort of crazy nightmare. And I mean, happens all the time. Think about it. Like, you work a lot all of a sudden, or you're doing something a lot, you're watching movie, you almost always dream or have a nightmare.

[Peyton Moreland]

100.

[Garrett Moreland]

Happens to me all the time.

[Peyton Moreland]

I'm on the same page with you on this one.

[Garrett Moreland]

So that part, not a red flag.

[Peyton Moreland]

Prosecution is like, no, we think it's so crazy that he has a sleepwalking episode the same night he gets a night.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my God. Gosh, this prosecution sucks.

[Peyton Moreland]

No offense, though I'd say the most damning piece of evidence against Ben that they use against him is probably his phone usage. Okay, and this is something that's going to make you question everything up to this point.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay, let's hear it.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

Ben had been awake and actively using his phone 20 minutes before the stabbing occurred.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay. Yeah, that changes a lot. That changes a lot.

[Peyton Moreland]

So he stopped using his phone at 4:17am and at 4:41am he was on the phone with 91 1.

[Garrett Moreland]

So a question, and maybe you don't know this. What does actively using mean? Because Peyton will fall asleep watching her phone and that phone will sit there for like three more hours.

[Peyton Moreland]

I think it was probably going between apps is actively using.

[Garrett Moreland]

But do we know that for sure?

[Peyton Moreland]

No, we don't know it. But I think if it was just like, oh, a song was playing or a podcast was playing, that's what Garrett means. By the way, I fall asleep to podcasts.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like, if you're watching a YouTube video and you fell asleep and you're watching it for like another hour, I don't

[Peyton Moreland]

think that's considered actively using, but I guess it would be. Yeah, actively you're watching was not brought up anywhere. I did not see that in anything.

[Garrett Moreland]

I'd be curious to ask one of them what actively using means. Because if you're watching a tick tock in your phone, you're actively using your phone.

[Peyton Moreland]

I didn't even think about that, but I didn't see that anywhere.

[Garrett Moreland]

Put me, Put me in court.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah. Basically there's a 20 minute lapse in time. Now, if you remember, Dr. Simmons test sleep study test said it only took Ben 11 minutes to fall into that deep slow wave sleep where people sleepwalk. So perhaps it is possible that he put his phone down, fell asleep, and then Literally slept, walked in his sister's room with enough time to kill her and call 91 1. Ultimately, though, that was going to be up to a jury, because the prosecution was not going to let Ben off the hook that easily. And the defense was not willing to accept the plea deal they were offering there. Like, you can plead guilty and get 30 years in prison. Instead, Ben was like, no, I'm innocent. He maintained that. He said it was forces beyond his control, and he was going to wait for his day in court. Okay, finally, that day arrived in February of 2025.

[Garrett Moreland]

All right, let's hear. I need to know what the jury thought.

[Peyton Moreland]

Now, this defense is so popular, it has a name. What's known as the sleepwalking defense, or under its legal classification, automatism, has only been successful a handful of times throughout history. But it is commonly used as a defense, and the prosecution does have a few decent pieces of evidence in this case. What they don't have, however, is a motive. There's nothing indicating that Ben had any issues with Megan. In fact, by all accounts, they were best friends. They adored each other. There is no digital evidence, no eyewitness accounts, nothing from friends or family, nothing to support the fact that Ben might have wanted to kill his sister intentionally. Yeah, so that's what the defense is really hanging its hat on. That. And then the fact that Ben underwent sleep studies to show the prosecution's biggest piece of evidence doesn't exactly hold up. And that's the phone usage piece. They're going to say no because of the sleep test he did. We know is it is totally possible that he fell asleep and went into sleepwalking within those 20 minutes. So even if he was using his phone, it is fully possible that this. That his version of events still happened. And you also have to remember, sleepwalking, like typically is triggered by stress. Ben did mention he has his SATs coming up. It's his senior year of high school. Life's about to change. He's looking at colleges. He's going to move away from his sister. That's not nothing for a teenage boy. And the defense also pointed to cases of sleepwalking where people did things that felt natural to them. One study showed there was a chef who would sleepwalk and literally cook in his sleep. Well, for Benjamin, handling knives was something that came naturally to him. His family had a large collection of knives. Duh. His dad gave him one the night before they went camping often. They also found that Ben scored much higher than most on a sleepiness scale. He often had A hard time waking up. He would have conversations with people he didn't remember when he wasn't fully awake. So all of this, according to Dr. Simmons at trial, could have led to what he called the perfect storm. But the prosecution start witness another doctor, Dr. Mark Pressman, argues no, Ben's crime wasn't a parasomnia disorder. This was fully a choice. He mentioned that Ben would have had to unsheath the knife before using it. He's like, that's not natural. He just barely got this knife. That's a conscious decision. He said it was also very strange for Ben to recall details of the event the way he did. If he was actually sleepwalking, if you remember, he did say he remembered the feeling of the knife piercing Megan's neck. He's like, that wouldn't be as tangible if he was sleepwalking but also stabbed twice. Maybe the second one is what woke him up. And so he really did physically remember that, and he only remembered one stabbing.

[Garrett Moreland]

I still think it's comical that two experts in their field can disagree with each other, Right? I mean, it happens so much now, and I think it's a little comical.

[Peyton Moreland]

But I also want to point something out that I just, to me, is a little silly. This prosecution star witness, this doctor, Dr. Pressman, okay, who's gonna get up and like, contradict the other doctor. Basically, he never spoke or worked with Ben directly ever. So he's gonna get up and testify that Ben did not have a parasomnia sleeping disorder that was like, big enough to do this, that this was a conscious choice. But he never even spoke to Ben. He never even did studies on him. He never anything.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay?

[Peyton Moreland]

I'm like, how can you speak so confidently about a subject, right? Like, Ben is the subject of this study that you didn't even, like, study yourself.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, it's dumb.

[Peyton Moreland]

It just feels a little weird to me. He came to all of these conclusions from afar. But that didn't keep the prosecution from building their theory. Ben did this intentionally. Use a pillow to muffle his sister's screams. He stabbed her not once, but twice. And when he realized he wasn't going to get away with it, he called 911 and then used a very smart alibi of sleepwalking. Now, the prosecutor, Megan Long, even said in her closing arguments that Ben's parents had helped in reinforcing his alibi, and therefore they had committed a cover up to protect their son. So she throws the parents under the bus as well.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. I'm not Gonna lie. We're getting. I mean, I get it, but they're.

[Peyton Moreland]

I don't get that.

[Garrett Moreland]

It just feels like they're reaching at this point.

[Peyton Moreland]

I just don't get that.

[Garrett Moreland]

Because reaching if.

[Peyton Moreland]

If you. I mean, this is what their son's telling them. They have a choice to believe their son or not. That's not committing a.

[Garrett Moreland]

Honestly, low key. I feel like this prosecution is acting like a bunch of tick tockers on tick tock. Being like, no, well, they did this. They did this. Like, it just seems very immature and not professional to me.

[Peyton Moreland]

Basically, the prosecutor's like, they already lost one child. They don't want to lose another. They know he's guilty, but they don't want to lose another.

[Garrett Moreland]

I just feel like I'm in, like, the tick tock comment section right now. Anyways. Keep going.

[Peyton Moreland]

She even at one point looks at the jury and says, quote, I want you to look in this courtroom. There are so many people here for Benjamin, and there is not one person here for Megan, which is, like, actually insane.

[Garrett Moreland]

No way. There's no way. That is, like, actually, to me, you're lying. What do you mean?

[Peyton Moreland]

Those are her parents. They lost a daughter who is. You don't think. They're not there for this.

[Garrett Moreland]

I stand by what I said earlier about this. Prosecution sucks.

[Peyton Moreland]

And don't get me wrong, there have been cases where I'm like, ooh, these parents are kind of acting nasty, like, I understand loving your son, but they're protecting him a little too much. This is not that case. This is not Brian Laundrie's parents.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes.

[Peyton Moreland]

You know what I mean? Like, this is. Does not feel like that to me. Anyways, there was an objection from the defense, but the judge was like, go ahead, continue. Just because it's rude doesn't mean you can't say it. She says, quote, you have to be her hero, the jury, because no one's here for her. He knew exactly what he was doing. There has been no remorse shown here in this courtroom by him. Now, she wasn't wrong about that. Ben barely shed a tear during the trial. He was very, like, off. And this was something the jurors literally took into consideration as they left to deliberate. But I do want to note that oftentimes a defense team will just tell their client to just not show any emotion, because no emotion is better than emotion that people can read into. So oftentimes they are directed to just, like, keep it down. Don't. Don't show anything. Don't bat an eye. So this is kind of hard because he might have been instructed to do so. You know what I mean?

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

And again, also crazy to look at the jury and be like, you need to save this girl when her parents are sitting right there.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay, so what did the jury say?

[Peyton Moreland]

So they deliberate for five hours. Many of the jury said they knew someone or were sleepwalkers themselves.

[Garrett Moreland]

See, that's me. Like, I. The reason I think I believe this case a little more is because, like, I've experienced that firsthand.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yes.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like I grew up sleepwalking.

[Peyton Moreland]

So after hearing four days of testimony, the jurors came back with a verdict. They found 21 year old Benjamin Elliott guilty of first degree murder.

[Garrett Moreland]

Oh, man, that's not what I was expecting, but here we are.

[Peyton Moreland]

I will say it was still a good thing he didn't take that deal. The judge went pretty easy on him after the members of the jury were like, listen, we want him to have leniency. He's guilty of first degree murder.

[Garrett Moreland]

Why was he given leniency? Why would you say he's guilty of first degree?

[Peyton Moreland]

Well, they said it was just more for the family than anything. They're like, they already lost one kid they don't deserve.

[Garrett Moreland]

I don't know, it sounds like some of the jury was like, I don't think he did it, but we're going to say he did it.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, here's the thing.

[Garrett Moreland]

This one's got me a little confused.

[Peyton Moreland]

I think that it's hard for. Okay, let me just put this out here. I have a definite bias against this case because I had seen all of this footage before.

[Garrett Moreland]

Really doing a deep dive seemed pretty believable.

[Peyton Moreland]

It may. It tugged at my heartstrings. I felt bad for the parents. I thought that Ben's reaction was. Was believable. Like, it seemed like he was in pure shock. But then it was also frustrating because you're like, bro, like, how did you do this? But like, he also almost seems that so.

[Garrett Moreland]

So he's in jail. Like, what was the.

[Peyton Moreland]

So they asked for leniency and Ben was given 15 years in prison and he'll be eligible for parole.

[Garrett Moreland]

Okay.

[Peyton Moreland]

In August of 2032.

[Garrett Moreland]

That's when you know, even if he was sleepwalking and that's real, I feel like a 10 to 15 year sentence is probably what he should get.

[Peyton Moreland]

Like 10 years for like manslaughter, you're saying?

[Garrett Moreland]

Yes. To me, it's like manslaughter.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah. But if it's truly not his fault, I know.

[Garrett Moreland]

I agree. And so, yeah, maybe he shouldn't get anything. I don't know.

[Peyton Moreland]

But it's different than, like, getting behind the wheel of a car. Like, if you get behind the wheel of a car, you're knowingly getting into a death machine.

[Garrett Moreland]

How do you prove this?

[Peyton Moreland]

We all have to fall asleep.

[Garrett Moreland]

Like, I'm. It's just hard, too, because once someone doesn't get convicted because they were sleepwalking,

[Peyton Moreland]

and I think that's why it opens

[Garrett Moreland]

up this can of worms to everyone. Can be like, oh, I was sleepwalking.

[Peyton Moreland]

Which I think a jury is aware of. Like, it is very dangerous to believe

[Garrett Moreland]

that's not that person's fault. Should they be in prison? Like, they were sleeping. This is why I don't like this case. I'm not a fan.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because at the end of the day, it really just comes down, do you believe him or not?

[Garrett Moreland]

Well, here's the thing. It just comes down to whoever the jury is.

[Peyton Moreland]

There was no blood splatter the pillow. I mean, they had some arguments, like, do I think it's possible to sleepwalk? Yes. I don't even think that's.

[Garrett Moreland]

No. I literally think the judge probably believes it was sleepwalking because he wouldn't have just given. Given him 15 years. He would have said, hey, you're in prison for life.

[Peyton Moreland]

He did so at the jury being like, judge, please be lenient.

[Garrett Moreland]

But still, if you truly believe, like, that person killed someone, first degree murder, you'd be like, sorry, dude, you're going to jail for life.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah, first degree. Here's the thing.

[Garrett Moreland]

Obviously, people in there were like, oh, there's a chance.

[Peyton Moreland]

The question is, did he sleepwalk and kill his sister or did he kill his sister?

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

And it's like, honestly, is there evidence for both? Kind of.

[Garrett Moreland]

Correct.

[Peyton Moreland]

I mean, them saying there's no blood spatter, which to us means this pillow was put here before the stabbing. That feels premeditated. But also, what if he really just did it that way in his sleep?

[Garrett Moreland]

The thing is, if there's evidence for both, then you. He doesn't go to prison 100%. We've done. We've had crazier cases where people should have gone to prison because it looked like they should have and they didn't get anything.

[Peyton Moreland]

Yeah. Anyways, okay, so he'll be eligible for parole at 28. But Ben's case is an unsettling one, because if his claims are true, it forces us all to look at things in a different light. What is really going on in our Minds. When we sleep, do we actually have control over our bodies? Or can they betray us in ways we never thought were possible? And if that's the case, what's stopping us from destroying the things in this world we are most connected to? Because I sleep next to you every single night. Something as precious, unique, and irreplaceable as our own flesh and blood can apparently be murdered if you're asleep. And that is the case of Megan Elliot.

[Garrett Moreland]

Crazy. I'm gonna think on this one for a second because I do not know how I feel.

[Peyton Moreland]

I mean, I think it's just kind of safe to say this case is. It's. It's almost like public opinion. Like, I don't. You either believe him or you don't. And like I said, there's maybe evidence to show both. So you can't really look at the prosecution and be like, well, you're 100 wrong. How do you. 100. No. But then you also can't really look at the defense and be like, how do you 100% know? Because it's like, how do you.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, I know.

[Peyton Moreland]

You just have to go with what you know. I think for me, it was like, the speed at which he called 91 1.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

To me, is a big one.

[Garrett Moreland]

Yeah, I agree.

[Peyton Moreland]

Because it feels like maybe he would have waited a little longer before.

[Garrett Moreland]

I think. For sure. Yeah.

[Peyton Moreland]

I don't know. Anyways, that was our episode. Thank you all for listening. Please let us know your. Your thoughts on this over on our Instagram and we will see you next time with another one. I love it and I hate it. Goodbye.