457 - In With The Goths

Summary

Episode 457 - In With The Goths: A Deep Dive into Civil Rights and Compassionate Care

Released on December 5, 2024

Introduction

In this compelling episode of My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark, hosts Karen and Georgia transcend their usual true crime and comedic banter to delve into profound historical narratives that highlight resilience and compassionate advocacy. The episode, aptly titled "In With The Goths," intertwines stories of civil rights hero Medgar Evers and the pioneering efforts of nurse Cliff Morrison during the early AIDS crisis, underscoring themes of bravery, systemic injustice, and the enduring impact of dedicated individuals.

---

Medgar Evers: Champion of Civil Rights

The episode begins with an in-depth exploration of Medgar Evers, a pivotal figure in the American Civil Rights Movement. Drawing from the book Autobiography of Medgar Evers and various historical sources, Karen narrates Evers' early life, emphasizing his upbringing in Decatur, Mississippi, and the racial injustices that shaped his mission.

• Early Life and Education: Born in 1925 to James and Jesse Evers, Medgar witnessed the brutal lynching of his father's friend, Willie Tingle, at age 14 ([23:19] Georgia). This traumatic event galvanized his resolve to fight for equality. Despite systemic barriers, Evers excelled academically, participating in various extracurricular activities and serving as class president ([24:00] Karen).

• Civil Rights Advocacy: After serving in World War II, Evers returned to Mississippi, actively working with the NAACP to combat segregation and disenfranchisement of Black voters. His efforts faced relentless opposition, including threats and violence from white supremacist groups ([28:01] Georgia).

• Assassination and Aftermath: On June 12, 1963, Evers was assassinated in his driveway by Byron De La Beckwith, a member of the Ku Klux Klan. Despite clear evidence and multiple trials, De La Beckwith was acquitted twice due to biased all-white juries. It wasn’t until 1994, thanks to investigative reporter Jerry Mitchell, that De La Beckwith was finally convicted ([35:07] Karen). Merle Evers Williams, Medgar’s wife, played a crucial role in ensuring her husband's legacy endured, advocating for justice and leading within the NAACP until her passing ([38:27] Karen).

Notable Quotes:

• Merle Evers Williams reflects on her motivations: "Because I loved Medgar, I didn't want him to be forgotten. That was the first motivation. The second was to bring positive change if I possibly could." ([37:18] Karen)
• Karen emphasizes the systemic racism: "The Mississippi state legislature... recognizes local bodies called white citizens councils, which oppose integration... often with armed resistance." ([27:05] Georgia)

Impact and Legacy: Medgar Evers' relentless pursuit of justice left an indelible mark on the civil rights movement. His dedication inspired future generations to continue the fight for equality, culminating in significant legislative and social changes. Institutions and memorials, such as the Medgar Evers homecoming celebration and a national monument, ensure his contributions are remembered ([39:54] Karen).

---

Cliff Morrison and the Birth of Compassionate AIDS Care

Transitioning from civil rights, the hosts segue into December’s focus on HIV/AIDS awareness, spotlighting the extraordinary work of nurse Cliff Morrison at San Francisco General Hospital's Ward 5B.

• Early Struggles and Personal Loss: Cliff Morrison, hailing from impoverished Florida, found his calling in nursing despite societal prejudices. Moving to San Francisco in 1979, he encountered the emerging AIDS crisis in the early 1980s, witnessing firsthand the rampant fear and discrimination against patients ([43:37] Georgia).

• Establishment of Ward 5B: Determined to provide compassionate care, Morrison spearheaded the creation of Ward 5B, a dedicated AIDS ward aimed at treating patients with dignity amidst widespread stigma. Despite resistance and homophobia, Ward 5B became a sanctuary where patients were treated as individuals rather than contagions ([58:10] Karen).

• Innovative Care and Community Support: Under Morrison's leadership, Ward 5B implemented groundbreaking practices, including allowing visitors beyond set hours and integrating volunteers from the gay community. This approach not only improved patient care but also set a new standard for handling the epidemic with empathy and respect ([70:19] Karen).

• Enduring Legacy: As treatments advanced, Ward 5B expanded before eventually closing in 2006. Morrison's efforts demonstrated the power of compassionate healthcare and influenced future HIV/AIDS treatment protocols. His resilience in the face of immense personal and professional challenges serves as an inspiring testament to the impact one individual can have ([75:44] Karen).

Notable Quotes:

• Morrison on compassionate care: "We knew by now that AIDS was not transmitted casually. I had no qualms about climbing onto the bed with my patients to hold them." ([70:19] Karen)
• Nurse Alison Mowad on the ward’s ethos: "We learn how to take care of patients who were going through this terrible disease... It's about touching and interacting, letting people know they were safe, letting people know they were accepted." ([71:08] Georgia)

Reflections on Compassion and Advocacy: Karen and Georgia highlight the transformative nature of Ward 5B, emphasizing how Morrison and his team prioritized human connection over fear. They discuss the broader societal implications, noting how Morrison's work prefigured later public figures like Princess Diana, who showed solidarity with AIDS patients ([72:44] Karen).

---

Closing Thoughts

As the episode draws to a close, Karen and Georgia reflect on the profound courage and compassion exhibited by both Medgar Evers and Cliff Morrison. They underscore the importance of remembering and honoring these figures who stood against systemic oppression and healthcare injustices. The hosts encourage listeners to engage with these historical narratives to foster empathy and drive ongoing social change.

Final Quotes:

• Karen sums it up: "Courageous compassion. And being the first person to do that is scary and hard, but it must be done." ([76:38] Karen)
• Georgia adds: "It's crucial stories. The details of how that kind of work gets done and pushed forward and it's by people who truly knew they were putting their life on the line and did it." ([40:32] Georgia)

---

Conclusion

Episode 457 of My Favorite Murder transcends its true crime roots to deliver a poignant examination of pivotal moments in civil rights and healthcare history. Through the stories of Medgar Evers and Cliff Morrison, Karen and Georgia illuminate the enduring struggles and triumphs of those who fight for justice and compassion. This episode not only educates but also inspires listeners to appreciate the monumental efforts of individuals who have shaped a more equitable and humane society.

---

Notable Resources:

• Books & Movies:
  • Autobiography of Medgar Evers by Merlee Evers Williams
  • Ghosts of Mississippi (Film)
  • 5B (Documentary, 2018)
  • The Great Believer by Rebecca Mackay
• Websites:
  • Merle Evers Williams’ writings and the Medgar and Merle Evers Institute
  • Sources listed in the show's notes for further reading

Listener Engagement: Listeners are encouraged to visit the show’s website and social media channels to explore additional resources and share their own hometown stories, ensuring that the legacies of heroes like Medgar Evers and Cliff Morrison continue to inspire and educate future generations.

Transcript

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is exactly right. This episode is brought to you by Hulu. The new Hulu original true crime docuseries. Vow of the Assassination of Anna May examines the murder of Anna Mae Awkwash, a Mi'kmaq mother and activist who fought for indigenous rights in the 1970s. The gripping investigation into her mysterious death, unsolved for 30 years, reveals a web of coverups and betrayal. Vow of the Assassination of Anna Mae is now streaming on Hulu. This episode is brought to you by opill, the first over the counter daily birth control pill available in the U.S. opill is FDA approved, full prescription, strength and estrogen free. Plus there's no prescription needed. Finally, the days of needing a prescription for birth control are over. OPILL is available online and at most major retailers. Take control of your health and reproductive journey with opill birth control in your control user birth control for 25% off your first month of [e-mail] hello and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Welcome to my favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Georgia Hardstart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Karen Kilgara.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is a video as well as an audio podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I guess we were doing something with our arms recently that people were freaked out by. It was like this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It's called a power move in podcasting. If you've never seen it, get ready podcasting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

See it now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love. People are freaked out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think we just over exaggerated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You didn't realize how much we gesture.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a lot of gesturing. You can't have a good podcast without just flamboyant gesturing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I simply need you to know one must. There's gonna be a ton of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is basically musical theater.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. We're back on the boards. We're trotting the boards.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Speaking of being on the fucking boards. Wow, guys, it's it. That's it. Karen's banging on the fucking table. Just in pure. There's no words to describe who tell them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, first of all, I just want to say that the website bluesky is a new social media website that has taken the place of Twitter that died long ago. And so because I'm on there, I opened it up in the middle of like a meeting or something and there's an account called Carmageddon 13 who's there to tell me some of the most exciting news I've ever seen and that it's. We're on Jeopardy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I actually got my info from Canada.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I guess it's a different time zone there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From our friend Casey Corbin, who's Vince's friend. In Texas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Texas. Canada.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Text us that info. Texas. Nope. Canada. Still Canada.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Double Canada.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Double Canada.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then basically we were. And you're wrong about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Provided the question part of a clue or the answer part of the clue on Jeopardy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It said can. I'll say it said start. Yeah. On your own. This Esquire's Best of 2021 included. You're wrong about. And my favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You have to wait till the end.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The answer is a podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Podcasting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What is a podcast?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What is a podcast? Fuck. We lost our own fucking round. That was like. That was a moment that I was like, that's all I've been waiting for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're done now we're done. It's great to finally be done. It's nice to wrap it down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We really wanted to get under nine years and I think we've done it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just under uncomfortably close to nine years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Real close.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So my family has been watching Jeopardy. Every single night at 7:00 since I can remember, truly. I think I've told you multiple times the story of me watching it at 4:30 and then again at 7 and pretending I knew all the answers. And my mom was like, are you kidding?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's the cheese.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen. She was getting so excited. I finally had to bust myself. I think I was 14 when I did it. So for that long, my family's been watching Jeopardy at 7. What's hilarious is, so I see that message. We all send it to each other. We're all freaking out. I'm like, oh my God. I'm gonna go downstairs, watch it with my dad. And then there's gonna be this reveal and it's gonna be incredible. Well, we were preempted by Monday Night Football.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Happens to the best of us, you know. Happens to the best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So perfect. And later on I said to my dad, like at the end of the night, I said, hey, so, you know, are you proud that I was on your favorite TV show? And he goes, you were on Monday Night Football.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, did it play after?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it was preempted till like 10:30.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or some Trinity, but it still played. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Still played, but yeah, not the same football, you guys. Just so perfect that I would be preempted by Monday Night Football for your dad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That moment, your dad finally going to say it. So you had to tell him instead of watching it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, well. Cause I had to send that post to my sister. Cause she lost her mind. She was just like, oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I did too. That feels like a Moment in fucking time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It really does that I don't think.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll ever not be amazed by.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you, Jeopardy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you, Jeopardy. Writers. Yeah. That was cool to be included.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It really was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Congratulations. You're wrong about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I hope you feel the same. Yeah. That was very exciting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How else was your Thanksgiving break?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good. It was good. We binged a show that I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Turkey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We binged. We binged turkey. Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't have said it like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We ate a whole turkey between two of us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We binged. No, we ate a bunch, and then we forgot to put the leftovers away. It was really sad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Yeah, that's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I forgot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm a leftover person. Those are my fucking favorite. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Well, especially Thanksgiving leftovers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the show that we binged over the break is the biopic version of the nonfiction book that we both loved. Say Nothing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

By Patrick Radon. Keith.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

About the IRA and the Troubles and especially about Dolores Price, which I now know how to say her name correctly because of that show. How the Irish say. It's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's tough, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dolorous.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fucking incredible. Great. It's on Hulu. I could watch 10 more seasons of it. Even though I know it's over. Like, I know it. They don't. They didn't make it up. So they can't just keep going but love it. It's incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm so glad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because. Yeah. I've heard a lot about it and we've talked a lot about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you love when something that you read something like that you know about from it feels like it's the very first iteration of it actually gets executed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

By people who also loved it. Clearly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And, like, the acting's incredible. Like, both the younger generation and then the people who play. Of course people play them. They're older. They're fucking, you know, professionals. But everyone just, like, killed it. It was. It was just, like. It was phenomenal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's such a weird period of history that I don't think we really are taught right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it's recent to us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it is that kind of thing where it maybe doesn't feel like history.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But. Yeah. In America, we don't know enough about the Troubles and what's kind of behind it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's really going on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I think this will teach everyone. So say nothing on Hulu.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Definitely. Why we don't say Londonderry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We don't say Londonderry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a mistake that I will never, ever stop thinking about for the rest of my life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that Ireland and Scotland, or is it Scotland, is not part of the uk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ireland's not part of the UK except for this area.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's the problem.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, right, exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now we all know. Now we all know all of the things that we know the most now. Now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now we know them after the fact. What about you? What have you got?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's see. I binged Monday night Football, Tuesday Night Football, Wednesday afternoon football.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because you were.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There was no end to the football experience. But what I loved was I just lay on the couch. My dad watches football, but he gets it straight into his hearing aids. Right. So it goes. And then I'm sitting in silence with kind of the background of football. Have to listen to it, and then I can just watch TikTok full volume in the middle of the room. And it's like, we have a great setup, and then if anybody needs to tell the other person anything, we both stop what we're doing and go, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so I need to get Vince hearing aids is what you're saying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it's pretty great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Eventually, that's what will happen. I love a sports nap. Like, when Vince puts on a sport, I'm like, great. This is the perfect, you know, atmosphere for a nap.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's also, I think it's like, you don't. You understand the value of it, but you don't have to be invested. You just kind of get to enjoy the general vibe and then. And then, like, go to sleep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And I'm like, I know he's occupied, so I don't have to feel like I'm wasted. Like, you know, like I'm asking questions. Yeah. Or like, you know, and I'm like, baby, I'm gonna go take a nap. And it's like, okay, well, I'll just hang out for an hour and a half then while you take a nap. It's like, no, you are watching the sport.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so my nap is not interfering with your day in any way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They go together perfectly. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, I can feel guilty about a nap. That's how much fucking anxiety I have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I wouldn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. When he's got. When he's occupied, it's called codependency. And we're great at it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're powering through it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Speaking of which. And my. I was basically binging TikTok, I guess that would be on top of forced football voluntarily binging TikTok. And so I think I told you this already, but one of the things that is now in my experience is I get to see the clips of Nick Terry's MFM animated all the time because they're in my feed. The algorithm has figured out I love myself, and so they come up all the time. And the other day, the I can't find my mom little girl in the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Store story that you told about looks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like a goth, a gotha punk, or a grandma. And so I saw that one, and I'm like, so cute. And then I looked down, and it was actually retweeted by a company called Gothcloth. Oh. And Gothcloth retweeting that it got 500,000 likes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And 2 million views.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you fucking serious?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I am dead serious. So, gothcloth, we want to say thank you. Just let me tell you really quick. Gothcloth was founded by a woman named Jordan Cahill in 2023. So recently, it's a blend of personal design. She creates and curated items that are must haves for ghosts and ghouls.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love ghost and ghouls and witches.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks, Jordan, for the RT and the, you know, I guess it's like some nice content for the goths and the ghouls that might be wanting to buy her clothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love that. I'm glad that we're, like, you know, in with the goths. I mean, who better to be in with?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like we were there without being, you know, it's that kind of thing. When I was in high school in the 80s, you weren't allowed to try to be in with a group if you weren't gonna, like, dye your hair or wear the black lipstick or whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pluck all your eyebrows and put cat liner on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You actually commit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I don't think it's like that anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can be whatever you want to be. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. You don't have to, like, wear a.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Uniform to be like a Murderino.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. That's kind of what it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So, yeah, Murderinos.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go to gothclothco.com gothcloth co if you want any of those things, because those are our new friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And also, if you're lost in a grocery store and you can't find your mom, go look for a goth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look for a goth. Or a punk. Or a grandma.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or a grandma.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Speaking of being lost and found, it's December, and so, as you know, every year in December, we do a weekly donation for the holidays. $10,000. So we always like to find a charity that can make a real difference in people's lives.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, yeah, so this December's we don't have a name for it. Giving Corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're kicking it off with a donation of $10,000 to an organization called Feeding America. They're part of a nationwide network of 200 food banks and 60,000 meal programs. So people can access food without judgment or stigma.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they work with lawmakers to make it easier for people to get food by expanding access to food assistance programs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so if you'd like to join us in giving to this very important cause, you can go to their website at Feeding America, or you can explore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Their volunteer opportunities, which is a great way to give back. You can, like, help out at a food bank, you can host a food drive. You can just donate food to your local pantry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, just let's all be looking out for ways to help each other and support each other and making sure people in need have what they need.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. When I was a kid, we had to utilize this. So, yeah, I really. And I really love being able to, you know, help out. Help out. Yeah. Because that helps my family out when I was a kid.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for that can of peaches that exploded in our laundry room because they were expired. Don't give expired food to food banks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, please check your. Please check all those dates.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyways.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's a nice one. That's a good feeling. Kick off December.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, well, let's get into it. We have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights and then we'll get into our stories.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So this week on Buried Bones, Kate and Paul are kicking off a two part series on Harvey Glatzman, known as the Glamour Girl Killer. He'd terrorized Los angeles in the 50s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucked up story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And a brand new episode of Rewind with Karen and Georgia. That's our third weekly episode. It's out now. This week we're recapping episode 22, featuring two stories from the 1500s. So if you haven't started binging Rewind, check it out. Please do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like a Cliff's Notes binging. It's like my favorite Murder for Dummies. Get. We'll make it easy those first couple hundred episodes. That's the plan. Also this week, over on this podcast, I'll Kill youl, the Aarons are talking about all things scabies Learn about the history of scabies and dive into scabies before scabies dives into you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I knew a fucking dirty ass hipster who got scabies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My mother was convinced because I bought clothes at vintage store at the Goodwill. Basically she's like, you are going to get scabies and then you're going to come to me. And I'm just telling you right now where I'm like, it's a coat. It's an old man's coat. Right? No one's going to give me skateboards.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, if it would have happened to someone because of that, it would have happened to me by now. So I can guarantee. Yeah, I can't guarantee you can guarantee.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It never happened to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Promise? Yeah, I think. And then just a friendly reminder, the holidays are coming up fast, so get your loved ones something that says, I love you almost as much as I Love podcasts. @exactlyrightstore.com, place your order by December 12th to guarantee delivery by the 25th. And get yourself some fun merchant.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And now that we're doing video, did you know we're also doing commercials? So let's take a look at the commercial that we made.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[C]

Hi, it's Nicole from the merch department. You might know me from that email you got about your recent return. And I have a question for you. Are your buns cold? Don't worry, we have the solution. And this one is a fan favorite design never before seen in sweatshirt form.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nicole. I love Nicole.

[C]

Just in time for the holidays. It's the hot dog crew neck sweatshirt. Now you can celebrate the year round delicacy that is the humble hot dog. Let your outfit be a conversation starter at every cocktail party this season. Featuring this gorgeous hot dog art by Sammy Rich. It's the perfect gift for everyone in your life, from your grandma to that random stranger you met online. So run, don't walk to our website, exactlyrightstore.com and order your hot dog sweatshirt today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God.

[C]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't. I. I remember you pitching that and then there it is. Holy shit, my face hurts from smiling like. That is so joyous.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who better than Nicole?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To be our salesperson, the head of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our, like, merch department.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nicole has been selling merch for us and with us since we started, basically, like since right after we started professionally doing merch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, she's been with us and I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Went to her and I was like, would you do this thing? I just think it would be funny. And she was like, okay, whatever. Because she's, like, always the funniest person in our staff meetings. And then the day we went to do it, Allison and I went to go over the scripts with her. Say, is there anything you want to change or do or anything? And then I was like, you took theater in high school? And she goes, no, I didn't. And then I was like, oh, okay. Well, tell me if you want to not do this. You don't have to do it if you don't want to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It doesn't seem like something she would want to do. And yet she nailed it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She did it. I'm so impressed, because it's Nicole being Nicole, which I love.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I'm so happy about that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to our Instagram and our TikTok and watch that video and then get a hot dog.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure. And you can see it and you can be a part of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was joyous, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I'm so glad you liked it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want a surprise video every episode. Please make me a surprise video.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As much as possible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what? Check and done.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was so scared when you said that it was going to be, like, me, like, talking that I didn't leave.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like a plane again. That's like the old pictures I used to love to surprise you with, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, we made a commercial.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Has nothing to do with me. I love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? And we're selling merch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're selling merch. This is the season to fill your home with holiday cheer. And if that's an excuse to get a new couch, so be it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, so be it is, right? Whether you're hosting the family or curling up for a cozy movie night, Article has everything you need to get you ready for the season.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Article believes in delightful design for every home. And thanks to their online only model, they have some really delightful prices, too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Article makes furniture shopping a breeze with its carefully selected styles. From mid century modern to boho and everything in between. No more endless scrolling, just beautiful options that suit your taste.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Check out their Quincy kitchen island. It offers a spacious countertop and extra seating, which makes it the perfect place to sit while you gossip about your weird cut.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Article provides fast and affordable shipping across the US And Canada. You get to choose your delivery time, and they'll keep you in the loop with updates along the way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When it comes to quality, Article's designers hit the sweet spot. Between style, durability, and price, they're all about thoughtful craftsmanship that not only looks great, but stands the test of time. Okay. When I saw the picture of this Quincy kitchen island. I audibly oohed. And I also want to say that back when I was an apartment dweller, I didn't know that you could just buy standalone kitchen islands. I thought they had like come built into your house and you could own a house to have one. Like I would have bought this immediately.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. I keep thinking of like old apartments that I have where it's like, oh my God, that would have made the kitchen like livable. Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Extra seating. I know. And it's gorgeous.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To claim, visit article.commur and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a R T I c l e.com murder to get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. Hey, it's gifting season once again and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you're locked in a years long one upping competition with your sibling that's edging you closer to financial ruin, you might need therapy, my friend.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, that's right. Talkspace, the leading virtual therapy provider, makes getting the help you need easy, accessible and affordable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Talkspace has licensed therapists in over 40 specialties like anxiety, depression and relationship issues. Plus, these services are covered by many insurance plans and employers. Most insured members have a $0 co pay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when you sign up for TalkSP, you'll match with a therapist or psychologist, typically within 48 hours.

[Georgia Hardstark]

TalkSpace provides personalized treatment for individuals, couples, the LGBTQIA community, veterans and teens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Once you meet your therapy goals, or if you want to cancel for any reason, talkspace will provide you with a prorated refund for unused time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, we talk about this a lot, but the idea that you could text with a therapist to start the conversation to do therapy, I would have loved that so much. I would have started so much sooner because it's just like there's no stakes. It's just like texting with an incredibly intelligent trained friend who is giving you feedback not based on their biases of being your friend, but actually based on training and like a degree science.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I also love that you can typically match with someone in 48 hours because how many times have you tried to make a therapist appointment and like, great, I can see you in two months and then you just spiral from there. Yeah, no, I need it now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And as a listener of this podcast, you'll get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com MF and enter promo code SPACE80.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com MFM and enter promo code S, P, A, C, E, 80.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You'll get $80 off your first month and show support for our show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's talkspace.com mfm and enter promo code space80. Goodbye. Okay. Okay, I'm first. And my story today is a heavy one. This is the life and murder of a civil rights hero whose killer went free for 30 as a clear, obvious direct result of state sanctioned racism in good old Mississippi. This is the story of Medgar Evers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, wow. You know this one? I know the overall. I know the very white child from a white school over Archie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Basics. Yeah. Okay. Well, the main source for this story is a book called the Autobiography of Medgar Evers, which combines his speeches and writings with historical context. Written by his incredible wife, Merlee Evers Williams, Ann, Manny Maribel and the rest of the sources are in the show notes. So Medgar Evers is born in 1925, grows up in Decatur, Mississippi and his parents are James and Jesse Evers. James works in a sawmill and Jesse, his mom, does laundry and ironing at home for local white families. Medgar has three other siblings and James and Jesse are known as extremely loving and attentive parents. Medgar's father is locally known as Crazy Jim, like your dad, because he refuses to step off the sidewalk in town in deference to passing white people. As was the rules.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the bullshit rules.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. The Everses are extremely focused on their children getting good educations despite the many barriers to this in the Jim Crow south, the Evers children attend a segregated school which is a 12 mile walk each way from their house. 12 miles, that's what, half a marathon?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, and. But also, like, so you have to get up, what, at 6 in the morning to get to school on time?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Seriously? So when Medgar is only 14 years old, a man in his town named Willie Tingle is lynched for supposedly insulting a white woman. Medgar witnesses Willie, who was friends with his father, be dragged behind a truck before being shot and hanged. So he sees us as a 14 year old. Willie's bloody clothing are left out on a fence post for a year after this, you know, to send a message. And the Everest kids have to walk past them every day on their way to school. The horror. So in 1942, when Medgar is 17 and still in high school, he volunteers to join the army by lying about his age and goes to fight in World War II. He serves in a segregated battalion in England and Then in France. And like most, though not all black soldiers at the time, Medgar is assigned to a non combat role due to the racist military policy. He works as a technician loading and unloading shipments of weapons. And he and his fellow black soldiers are routinely subject to demeaning treatment from their white commanding officers. And it's during this time in the army that Medgar resolves to fight for civil rights when he gets back home. So right after being discharged in 1946, Medgar and his brother bring a group of black veterans to the courthouse in their hometown of Decatur to register to vote. But on election day, a group of white men carrying guns blocks Medgar, his brother and the others from accessing the polls. So Medgar finishes high school and then attends Alcorn Agricultural and Mechanical College. On the first day of school, he meets a fellow freshman who's seven years younger, named Merle Beasley. And Merle, who's only 17, is warned by her grandmother to stay away from the older veterans. But the two get married in December of 1951 and graduate the following spring. And while in college, Medgar had been on the debate team, the business club, the football team, the track team, and been his class president his junior year and yearbook editor and newspaper editor in his senior year.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So no small feat. Also while in college, Medgar had attended an interracial seminar hosted by one all white college and one all black college in Mississippi. And it was at this seminar that he first Learned about the NAACP and joined. After graduation in 1952, Medgar and Murley first moved to a town called Mound Bayou, Mississippi, where Medgar begins working as an insurance salesman at a business owned by a prominent black doctor. And the job gives him the opportunity to travel the Delta region and talk to a lot of people. He also applies to be the first black law student at the University of Mississippi. But shocking. His application is rejected on a technicality. But of course, we know that it's more about the outrage of the alumni, you know, admitting a black person, I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mean, but when you were saying that thing of an all white school and an all black school coming together to have like, that seemed very advanced. And that's also in Mississippi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's like, obviously there's pockets of people who are really, especially the white people who knew that change had to happen. And like, I think it's such a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tipping point in history, like a, you know, it's like you've got the old school, you got the new school, and they're butting heads.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. It's like the young people and then the old ways.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Basically, it's the, like, what side of history do you want to be on kind of a thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a very valid question to this day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It sure is. And so, you know, getting rejected is in 1954, the same year as the Brown versus Board of Education decision passes, declaring segregation in public schools unconstitutional. But southern states and white school districts will fight this decision for years. And on the state level, the Mississippi state legislature passes laws empowering white districts to resist segregation and puts up obstacles for black students to register for school. And it also recognizes local bodies called white citizens councils, which oppose integration in individual cities and towns, often with armed resistance. So people trying to make progress and change, people trying to keep things the old way. And, you know, the fight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The fight that makes me think of leading up to the election. There was a video about this woman who made a T shirt with the receipt from when she voted the first time, I think when she was 18. Did you see that video? A black woman who's, you know, older now, obviously, and it was the $2 receipt for her having to pay a poll tax, which all black people had to pay when they were voting. That's what a poll tax is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy sh. When was this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, whenever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When did she vote? Originally?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. It was like. I can't remember. I think she said it was like, in the late 40s or so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I would guess that woman was somewhere in her 70s or 80s, but I couldn't guess. But she did a whole speech on it, and I was like, I've heard the phrase poll tax for so long, and I didn't know that that's what it was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's fucking wild.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that kind of like. Yeah. Figuring out all these ways to restrict or just get in people's way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Make it difficult so that they won't try, let alone succeed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So Medgar asked the NAACP for their assistance in suing the University of Mississippi over his application. But their leadership instead offers him a job. And In December of 1954, he is named their field secretary for the state of Mississippi. So Medgar and Murley, who by this point have two young children, Daryl and Rena, moved to Jackson, which is Mississippi's capital. We both totally knew that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, absolutely. I know all the state capitals.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Me too. They moved there in January of 1955. Their third child, a son named James, will be born in Jackson in 1960. So in the wake of Brown versus Board of Education, there is an increase in violence against black people in southern states. As part of Medgar's job, he investigates murder and assault cases against black people, which I can't imagine is not just completely traumatizing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He provides assistance to 14 year old Emmett Till's family after he horrifically lynched in money, Mississippi in August of 1954. The Till case. And as we've heard, it causes shockwaves around the world because his mother, Mamie Till's decision to allow the press to document the brutality of his injuries by having an open casket. Medgar himself spends days on his hands and knees in the town of money looking for evidence in the fields and in the river. And Till's murderers are ultimately declared not guilty by an all white jury.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ridiculous. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Medgar investigates eight other murders, countless assaults, and works to assist another black applicant to the University of Mississippi law school. And he also works tirelessly to register black voters in Mississippi. And as the civil rights movement changes and adapts to include more direct action like boycotts, Medgar helps organize those too. So at this point, the atmosphere in Jackson is obviously more than tense. And between 1955 and 1963, the Everest family is targeted with countless threats and several acts of violence. Merrelli writes that they used to get so many threatening phone calls that she would just put the phone down and walk away, you know, and she says, quote, I began putting the phone quietly down on the table and directing it toward the wall. So much hatred has been poured out on that wall. End quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, God. I know also, that's just like again, you're just going about your day. You have other stuff to do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then you have that kind of like, just think of like the last time somebody yelled at you in a parking lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Terrifying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or like shaken and whatever. And it's like that being brought to black people's door multiple times a day. Or, you know, and back then. Oh, you try to take any kind of action.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can't. On another occasion, Medgar is run out of a small town. He drives his car at 100 miles an hour to get away. Medgar and Merli teach their children to army crawl to the bathroom if they ever hear a loud noise aimed at the house. And in 1963, someone throws a firebomb at the Evers homes carport. Medgar isn't home when it happens. The kids are asleep. And so Merlie, this mother of three, is so afraid of being shot if she goes outside. But she also doesn't want the house to burn down. So she goes out and puts the fire out with a garden hose, like that's the best choice she has.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She has to do it herself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Merli remembers asking Medgar if all of this physical danger is worth it. So she says, quote, what about us? You have me, your wife, who loves you dearly. You have these three children. And Medgar would tell her, quote, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing, end quote. And she says also, quote, knowing that every day might be the last day was the force behind the deep love that Medgar and I had for each other and our children. End quote. So on June 12, 1963, Medgar comes home around 12:30am from a very long day of work for the NAACP. And the way Merle tells the story, it sounds like Medgar thought something might happen to him that day. He had made sure to spend the previous Sunday with his family not working, which was rare for him. And he made sure to kiss the kids before he left. And he called Merly just to talk three times throughout the workday. And when Medgar pulls the car into the carport shortly after midnight, his hands are full. He's carrying a stack of NAACP T shirts into the house. Because he had been out of town and traveling a lot. Merli had let the. This is the fucking worst. Merlia let the children wait up to greet their father when he got home. This is just. They hear the engine stop and the car door open. And then they all hear the horrifying, unmistakable sound of a gunshot. Merli runs to the door. Medgar has made it there, his keys in hand. But then he falls to the ground, bleeding profusely with the fucking kids away to greet their daddy. And the kids are between three and nine years old and they see all of it and they plead with their father to get up. Neighbors come over to help. But Medgar dies later that night. He's just 37 years old.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Thousands of people attend Medgar's funeral and it's documented in Life magazine. And there's this devastating photo of Merle comforting her nine year old son, Daryl on the COVID of Life, Medgar is buried with full military honors at Arlington National Cemetery. Cemetery. So almost immediately, it's very clear who shot Medgar Evers. In a small grove of trees about 100ft from the Evers house, investigators from the FBI find a rifle that matches the gun Evers had been shot with. It belongs to a 42 year old man named Byron De Le Beckwith. Byron is a member of his local White Citizens Council, one of Those all white groups devoted to maintaining segregation and white supremacy. He's also a member of the Ku Klux Klan. They kind of go hand in hand. So Byron is arrested and charged with Medgar's murder, but the case results and two hung juries, both all white and all male juries both times. And he's not tried a third time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, just the idea that it was such a strong case so clear that actually it made these completely rigged white juries go, hold on a second. How are we going to do this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're hung.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that says. That speaks volumes rather than in a.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Or not guilty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it not being tried a third time remains the state of affairs for 30 years. That's until an investigative reporter named Jerry Mitchell finds evidence that the state of Mississippi assisted Byron's defense team in vetting jurors for both trials. Oh, that's a fucking no. No, you can't do that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've never heard of this. Like, this feels like I'm trying to rack my brain of like, have I seen like a movie about this or something?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, I'll tell you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You want to go on the movie? The movie and book is first the book and then the movie is Ghosts of Mississippi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, famous, amazing movie directed by Ron Howard. But so Jerry Mitchell finds that evidence. He's this incredible investigative reporter. So Mississippi has a governing body called the Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission. And in theory, the role of this body was to protect the rights of the state from federal overreach, which we can fucking talk a lot about. States rights. Let's not. In practice, it really functioned to protect the racist interests of the local white Citizens councils it formed directly after the passing of Brown versus Board of Education. So in both trials of Byron De Le Beckwith, representatives from this body collected information on potential jurors and passed this on to Byron's defense team. So very specific, know, obviously egregious. So all this starts to happen in the late 80s, and Byron is finally tried a third time in 1994. Takes that long. In addition to the evidence from the crime scene, which remains the same from the first two trials, multiple people testify that Byron had boasted about killing Medgar over the years, including at KKK rallies. And this time, a jury which is no longer all white or all male, finds him guilty and he is sentenced to life in prison. And this part of the story is where the book and movie adaptation of Ghosts of Mississippi happens. Byron dies in 2001 at the age of 80. So Byron probably would not have been tried were it not for Merlie Evers. She eventually remarried and is now known as Merlie Evers Williams. And after the new evidence about the Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission's influence on the first two trials was revealed, Murli tirelessly pushed for several years for bio Byron to be retried. Merle says, quote, because I loved Medgar, I didn't want him to be forgotten. That was the first motivation. The second was to bring positive change if I possibly could, end quote. In the years after her husband's death, Merle moved her children to California and attended Pomona College. She had a career in marketing and corporate community outreach and then in the 90s, became a member of the board at the NAACP. She says that her primary motivation for attaining such an incredible career was vengeance. She says, quote, tell me that I can't do something. I'll kill myself trying to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

End quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucking chills. Merlee eventually becomes the NAACP board's first chairwoman, first lady, first female leader. In 2013, she delivers the invocation at the second inauguration of President Barack Obama.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Remember that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's the first woman and the first non clergy member to do so. Which is like, bring us fucking back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Remember?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Medgar Evers is still remembered as one of the brightest heroes of the civil rights movement. There's a college in Brooklyn named after him and a statue of him in Jackson, Mississippi. Every June, Jackson has the Medgar Evers homecoming celebration. And actually B.B. king played at it every year before his death in 2015. I know Medgar had told Marley that he was choosing to risk his life for his children's futures. And they all went on to do great things. Sadly, Daryl Evers, Medgar and Merly's oldest, oldest son, died of colon cancer in 2001. He was a prominent artist. Rena Evers had a 32 year career with United Airlines and now runs the Medgar and Merly Evers Institute and serves on several nonprofit boards. And James, the youngest, is a successful photographer who works on promotional photos for films and tv. And actually, James took this incredible photo of his two sons with Barack Obama and Murley at that inauguration in 2013.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So last year, Murley and Medgar's house was turned into a national monument which people can visit at a gala honoring her. Murley, who's now 91, said, quote, I ask you to please always keep Medgar Ever's memory in your minds and in your hearts, end quote. And that is the story of the death and legacy of a true hero of the civil rights movement, Medgar Evers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I did not know these details. Like. Yeah, there's just so many stories of brave people that are not told, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they're like. They're crucial stories. It's the details of how that kind of work gets done and pushed forward and it's by people who truly knew they were putting their life on the line and did it. They didn't back away from the risk and they didn't back away from all of that fear. They had to just. They kind of like lived in that fear and powered through it anyway. And that's the piece of it that's. It's so incredible. It's like he didn't stay home from work. He didn't. He just kept going knowing that he had to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It reminds me of when they started the desegregation Ruby Bridges. The five year old girl who had to. The first little black girl who went to a white school. Yeah, she's a baby. I mean we've talk about this before but like I recently saw a picture.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it was like her now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And her from then. And it just like they made a five year old do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They made her get escorted into the school so she could get an education.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah. Like by her. She was alone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like for. By fear of being killed. It's like. It's just fucking insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Amazing job. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wanted to not do that shitty. So.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, no, you did it. Great. And also just like. Yeah, I love that idea of like we don't know this. Let's tell each other so that we know it and other people know it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have you ever noticed that the closer you are to someone, the harder it is to buy the perfect gift for them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ugh. Well, dry your eyes. Aura Frames is here to make things easy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

These frames are ranked as the number one digital picture frame by Wirecutter. And here's why. They're incredible. Incredibly easy to set up, update and enjoy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aura Frames allows users to curate and share their photos and memories with loved ones, making it a personal and meaningful gift.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They feature a high resolution display that showcases your photos in vivid detail.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Users can also update their frames from anywhere using the Aura app, making it convenient to add new memories.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plus you can preload them with photos and a gift message, making it personal right out of the box.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Aura's given us a few frames over the years. And recently they were like, do you guys want any more? Have you had enough? We were both just like, no, we always want more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Never stops sending us aura frames, please. They're the perfect gift.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They are. There's like, never going to be enough frames to give to the people in your life because they're so good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And truly, it's like if you have two of those in your office and then you have to go to somebody's birthday, you're like, literally, I will bring them an aura frame and they will think I love them more than anyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. So say you want the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off Aura's bestselling Carver Matte frames by using promo code MFMCHECK.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a U R A frames.com promo code MFM.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This deal is exclusive to listeners, so get yours now in time for the holidays.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Terms and conditions apply.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the holiday season. Chances are you're about to spend a lot of time with family. Like. Like too much. Like a ton.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, so much. That means there's no better time to dive into something new on Audible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Discover the year's top audiobooks, podcasts, and originals in all your favorite genres.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar, especially when you're diving into a thriller, cozy holiday stories, or anything in between.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With thousands of titles released each year, Audible has the best selection of audiobooks, along with popular podcasts and exclusive Audible originals. And it's all in one easy to use app.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Audible's best of 2024 makes it easy to catch up on the year's most talked about stories in audio entertainment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Check out the thrilling Audible original the Christmas Party by bestselling author Catherine Croft. When Sasha agrees to spend Christmas with old friends at a Remot, a snowstorm traps them inside and buried secrets begin to resurface.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did it be? I have another creepy audiobook to recommend that I just finished. It's called the Silent Sister by Diane Chamberlain. It's spooky. It's creepy. The sister's missing. Is she? What really happened? Who's who? Who can you trust? I don't know, but I really like this character and I want her to win.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, you can trust Diane Chamberlain to write you a good audiobook.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right, the Silent Sister.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Audible. There's more to imagine when go to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Audible.Com murder and discover all the years best waiting for you. Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. This podcast is brought to you in part by Squarespace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Karen, let's take a moment to reflect on all the websites we've visited this year. Oh no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's been a wonderful year for visiting websites. The HTTPs, the forward slashes, I love that one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And if you want to get in on the fun, you can build your own website with Squarespace.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They make creating and managing a website easy. With Squarespace's new Design Intelligence, with 20 years of design expertise and AI, you can build a stunning website that fits your unique needs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With Squarespace, selling content has never been easier. By putting online courses, videos and memberships behind a paywall, you can earn revenue with one time fees or subscriptions.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And managing those payments is a breeze. In just a few clicks, you'll be able to accept payments with options like Klarna, Apple Pay, afterpay, and more and get discovered faster.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With Squarespace's built in SEO tools with meta descriptions and auto generated site maps, you'll rank higher in search search results globally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Head to squarespace.com for a free trial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when you're ready to Launch, go to squarespace.com murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's squarespace.com murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, we're gonna take a turn, but it isn't really the turn away that we usually do, which I kind of love. We're gonna turn toward different direction.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But also serious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because December is HIVAIDS awareness month. Right. If you weren't there, many of our listeners were not. But in the spring of 1980, the national news began to report on a mysterious, fatal disease that was spreading across the country almost entirely in the gay male population. Almost immediately, those who fell ill were treated like pariahs in the healthcare system. Being diagnosed with AIDS was seen as a death sentence, stoking fear, paranoia, and intense homophobia. The AIDS crisis in America and the way it was handled by the Reagan administration and by some average Americans themselves will always be a stain on our history. But like most of the stories that we tell each other, there is a glimmer of light in this story. Because at San Francisco General Hospital. Sorry, I can't start it already. I just feel so proud.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I was gonna say that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because at San Francisco General Hospital, a young gay male nurse from Florida will spearhead the first dedicated AIDS ward in the United States.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God, this is incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And when he does, a staff of heroic nurses and doctors will defy fears and cultural taboos to provide compassionate care to those patients dying from aids. And that simple, generous act of compassion will ultimately prove to be revolutionary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the story of nurse Cliff Morrison and San Francisco General's Ward 5.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit. I don't know anything about this. Right, Incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I knew like a little, but again, it's that same thing where you're kind of like, I know a little. There's an incredible documentary called 5B that came out in 2018, so definitely watch that. And then there's also interviews with and articles by Cliff Morrison and fellow 5B nurse Alison Moad. Those are the two main sources. And the rest of the sources are inter show notes. Okay, so first I'm going to tell you about Cliff Morrison. He was born in the early 50s in Live Oak, Florida, which is a small town on the state's panhandle. And by his own description, Cliff says It's quote, about 90 miles from anywhere. So Cliff grows up in poverty. No one in his family ever graduated high school, let alone college. They also didn't own a car, a telephone, or a teacher. So true, poverty. But from a young age, Cliff works as a field hand to support his family. A very young age. That's very hard work, obviously very physically demanding. So by the time he's 12, he decides that he doesn't want to do that job anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

12, he's like, enough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So when did he start?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're like, yeah, that's fucked up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Serious. So he heads down to a small local hospital and he asks if he can please work there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So he gets a job in the housekeeping department and he mops the floors, he takes out the trash. But after a while, he realizes he wants to care for the patients. Before long, Cliff is promoted to an orderly position, a job he holds throughout high school. And after he graduates, he goes to nursing school in Jacksonville.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he admits that he was self conscious about going into nursing at first because back then the field was dominated by women. But by 1971, 20 year old Cliff is a registered nurse and he's earning $10,000 a year, which is about what year? 71.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm going to go 38,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

78,000.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he's making good money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's very good money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think even in today's standards for some nurses it's like, yeah, they don't get paid that. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that's of course the most anyone in his family has ever made. That's incredible. But more than that, Cliff has really found his calling. He says, quote, I realized I really liked being a nurse. It's where I felt the most comfortable I'd always been told that I was a caring person, so it made sense that I gravitated toward that profession. So Cliff bounces from Jacksonville down to Miami. There's a thriving gay community down there. There were lots of job opportunities, but it's the 70s, and at this time, down in South Florida, there's a woman named Anita Bryant who's decided to wage war on the LGBT LGBTQ community of South Florida. She and her cronies are lobbying hard to have a recently passed ordinance that outlaws discrimination based on sexual orientation repealed. She wants repealed. They want to get rid of that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want you to take the steps you've. You've so fought for so hard and take them away from you. Like, let's go back in history instead of war. What the fuck?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What does that sound like to you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know. It sounds really familiar, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hmm. Let's repeal rights, huh? How's your body feel right now?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It feels like I want to get a hysterectomy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Feels like little second class. Yeah. Anita Bryant, I believe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's her getting pied.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, she. Yes. If I'm right, there's an amazing video because she.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who did it? It's someone who did it. That's like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She was also. She wasn't. She was a performer. She was like a singer and stuff. And she was kind of like back. It was like back in those Perry Como days where people were very, like, clean cut. It was all about, like, late 60s, kind of like all American clean cut, whatever. And so she was kind of, like, popular in a way. And then suddenly she was like, but, you know, who I really wanna oppress is these gays. And so, yeah, there is that legendary video where she gets pied while she's doing, I think, a press conference. Yeah, it was by gay activist Tom Higgins. Yeah, you can look that video up on YouTube. It's pretty great. But also it's like, at the time, it's like, how dare you? And it's like, it's pie. You're an asshole and you got a pie in the face. You deserve it. So basically, those bigoted activists drum up such an increasingly hostile energy in South Florida, which has up until then been a safe haven for gay people, that Cliff decides it's time for him to move to California. He's always wanted to spend time in the Bay Area. And, of course, San Francisco has become like the Mecca for gay people to escape to from all around the country. So in 1979, Cliff moves there and takes a job at San Francisco General, which is at the time a teaching hospital for University of California at San Francisco. So what's funny is Cliff doesn't actually take to the city right away. It's cold, it's foggy, the weather. There's not a lot of sunshine in San Francisco, so he misses the Florida sunshine. He's also not clicking with the gay community. Like so many places that can become emblematic of, like, a movement or a subculture, San Francisco's filled with transplants. So he feels like it's a little artificial. So he figures, okay, he'll stay for a year or two, and then he's going to go try somewhere else. But all that changes in 1981. The murmurings of a strange, deadly illness that's largely affecting young gay men begin to circulate. So Cliff and his colleagues at SF General start seeing some of these patients come into their icu. They're all suffering from the same symptoms. They've lost weight. They have fevers that last for days. They have lesions on their skin, swollen lymph nodes. Some of them are confused and delirious, and they almost always die from this illness. The news goes from calling it a mystery illness to saying it's a new type of cancer affecting gay men because they just have no idea. By 1982, and I have told you this story, I told you the last time we talked about the AIDS crisis, but this happening in 1981, I absolutely remember where I was sitting in the living room watching the 6 o'clock news with my mom. Or if it was my mom was there, it was the 7 o'clock news, and Dave McElhatton on the Chann and the little, like, chyron next to him just said mystery illness. And he basically was like, a mystery illness is in San Francisco.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Terrifying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Really strange.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So by 1982, this mystery illness is given a name, Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome, or AIDS for short. Cases are being identified throughout the country now, with many, but most importantly, not all of the victims being gay men. So even the best medical experts and the most decorated doctors can't flee fully explain why these patients are getting sick. And that uncertainty begins to fuel a widespread panic and blatant homophobia. According to the website Hospital Watchdog, they say, quote, some men suspected as gay and infected with HIV were kicked out of their apartments and fired from their jobs. In one instance, their desks were taken to a parking lot and set on fire. Insurance companies were screening out gay men to deny coverage by sending out surveys asking if they worked As a florist or a hairdresser.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. In actuality, AIDS is affecting people from all walks of life, but it's an extremely hostile time for members of the gay community. It's a hostile time anyway. And then this comes along, Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then it's like they almost feel justified in their homophobia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Those bigots. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So even within the medical establishment and even in progressive cities like San Francisco, some nurses, doctors, and orderlies are reluctant or they outright refuse to treat patients with certain symptoms or if they suspect that they're gay. And when those patients are admitted, they are usually isolated and treated more like walking biohazards than as human beings. Actually. Literal hazard signs are sometimes plastered on their hospital room doors. Meals are left in the hallway outside of their rooms. Basic care, like changing their bedsheets or cleaning them goes undone. Out of this field of being infected.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Cliff is seeing all of this as a nurse. And then one day, it hits even closer to home. He comes back from work to find his roommate Wayne, collapsed on the hallway floor. Cliff says, quote, we had been talking a lot about the disease because it was just starting to make headlines, and I had a feeling that's what he had. So for days, Cliff does everything he can to care for Wayne at home. But Wayne's condition doesn't improve. And it's not easy to find a hospital that can or will admit. Which is such a weird thing to think of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like the place you're supposed to go when you're sick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The given.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they're like, oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like when you need care. And they're like, well, their laws say that I can't take care of you and give you the care that you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or we're just gonna to protect ourselves, we're gonna not admit you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Sounds so familiar.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So Cliff reaches out to his colleagues at San Francisco General. He's finally given the name of a doctor who works out of a private hospital. That will take way. And there Cliff watches as his friend is rushed into an isolation room surrounded by fearful staff, then shut away and left alone. When Cliff tries to go into that room, the medical staff stops him. They warn him that it's too dangerous. But Cliff doesn't hesitate. He tells them, quote, I'm a nurse and I've been taking care of Wayne for days. Whatever he's got, I probably have. And he goes into the room. So at the time, it's very common for medical staff treating these patients to wear head to toe ppe what's casually referred to as a space suit, which are those heavy duty biohazard suits that we've all seen in movies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the staff who have been wearing suits like that, if not the heavy duty ppe, is just staring at Cliff in shock and horror as he walks into Wayne's room without any protective gear on at all. Cliff later says, I didn't want to wear a spacesuit to take care of my friend. So seeing these patients at San Francisco General, as well as his roommate, being neglected, isolated, and denied compassion in the final days of their lives, incredible infuriates Cliff. The fact is, at this time, most patients with AIDS do not survive. And Cliff sees that their deaths are neither peaceful nor dignified.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then so many of their families have shunned them already. So it's not like, yes, all they have is each other, and they're not even being allowed to see.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're not allowed in. Or like, their friends don't know that this is the part that they're in. Like, they're just not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like everyone's freaking out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like a leopard colony.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So these patients die in pain, surrounded by fear, and often alone. And this, the diagnosis of this disease, cuts them off from care in a time that they need it the most. So Cliff decides he needs to change this. He starts by volunteering with the sh, which is a San Francisco based nonprofit that provides people with terminal illnesses, compassion and human connection as they die. By the early 80s, many of the people they work with are sick members of the gay community. So for Cliff, this volunteer work becomes an invaluable education in palliative care. Back at San Francisco General, word spreads quickly about his work with the shanty project, and before long, doctors, nurses, and even patients are coming to Cliff for guidance. He's suddenly a very helpful middleman who can see, share, and translate both the clinical and patient perspectives in a time that's incredibly confusing and incredibly scary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But as more people get sick, the hysteria is dialed up and the misinformation only increases. Meanwhile, ICU beds at San Francisco General hit capacity as hundreds of patients being diagnosed with aids, all spread throughout different wars. The quality of their care is entirely inconsistent, depending on their respective nurses and doctors mindsets. So you get a bad area of the hospital, you get a bad doctor or nurse. Yeah, the idea of that is like, we take it for granted. I mean, anybody that has insurance and that gets to even go to the hospital takes it for granted. I definitely do. But then this idea that you would get a Thing that would suddenly turn those people against you. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They have hatred towards you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they're supposed to be treating you while you're actively dying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So the hospital administrators quickly realize that they're in over their heads, and again, they turn to Cliff for help. They want him to take on a clinical coordinator job so they can oversee these patients with AIDS in the hospital. And Cliff accepts. There's immediately a plan to quarantine these patients in a separate part of the hospital. And at first, Cliff hates this idea. He compares it to being sent to a leper colony. But then, the more he thinks about it, the more practical a separate ward feels they'll have dedicated space and an opportunity to provide a more tailored kind of care. So he agrees. He's given an area of the hospital on the fifth floor used as a sleeping area for resident doctors, known as Ward 5, and an outpatient clinic called Ward 86. But Cliff realizes he's going to need money to set up and fund this new dedicated clinic. And that's when Dr. Mervyn Silverman, San Francisco's director of public health at the time, invites Cliff to meet with Mayor Dianne Feinstein. Cliff remembers, quote, we went to her office and sat down, and she said, we just so happen to have several million dollars surplus in the budget this year. If you promise me that you will spend this money appropriately, I will give you some of the surplus, and you do what you need to do. Just make sure you do it right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. When does that fucking happen?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, for real. Especially considering at this time, 1981, President Ronald Reagan hasn't even addressed this public health issue, a very pressing public health issue, to the country at all. He has not acknowledged, and he won't until 1985.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And even then, in 1985, he just very briefly mentions AIDS in a press conference, just like in passing. And then after that, it's two more years before he addresses this national health crisis in any significant way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It takes them six years to talk about aids.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Most people are actively dying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. And by then, nearly 47,000Americans have been infected with HIV or have died from AIDS.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cliff adds, quote, as I look back on that meeting with Dianne Feinstein, that was one of the more wonderful moments of my career. That's the first time I'd actually seen a politician show true leadership. Wow. So now that he has both the space and funding, Cliff needs nurses and doctor to work in Ward 5B. So he posts notices about the forthcoming AIDS ward throughout the hospital. He ends up hiring 11 nurses, as well as a team of social workers, physical therapists, dietitians, chaplains, and occupational therapists. And for him, staffing 5B isn't just about finding qualified medical professionals. It's about hiring people who genuinely want to work there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He knows that'll be the key to improving this poor quality of care that everyone is seeing everywhere else. But Cliff insists on being honest about the risks of this work. He has worked with enough AIDS patients without contracting the illness himself to know that that's possible. But generally, information is sparse, and he needs his staff to be informed and accepting of the unknowns. One 5B staffer later recalls an early conversation with Cliff where he says, quote, go home and talk to your significant others, because we don't know. We can't tell you that you're not gonna get this disease.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's terrifying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How brave.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then Cliff talks to the patients themselves to find out what they want out of this ward. He'll later say, quote, the first thing I heard was, I wanna feel like I'm being treated like a person. I have to stop crying on this podcast. It's fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, you need to do it for both of us. Cause I can't because of all those meds, of all that Botox. Like, I just don't have the power.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I see it. There's a tear in that eye right there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Well, it's just. Look, I lost a friend to AIDS who was 21 years old. Oh, my God. And it was. It was a big surprise. And it was. He was my friend from sixth grade.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I loved him very much. Ken Mason. And to see him, he, thank God, had a very loving, very accepting family who took care of him right till the end. And so I got to go see him basically in his. At his mom's house. And it was one of the worst things I've ever experienced to kind of see that he was ravaged. I mean, he was just, like. He was emaciated. And it's so easy to think about all of these men who in the 70s were like, oh, you know, everyone's encouraged to come out, and we need to fight for our rights, and we need to, like, be the people who we are. And then suddenly this happens, and it enables these bigots to talk about gay people, gay men. Like, you got what you deserve.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is cruel. It's so disgusting. It's just like. Yeah. Everything about it is so. It was so horrifying. And then the leadership that intentionally didn't help.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Like, you gotta wonder what would have happened if a Democrat had been in the. Had been in office at the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or a decent human being, right? Like somebody that. Someone with empathy look at that and say, it's insane, but here's what's beautiful. Basically, that's where Cliff comes in and he goes, we'll do it ourselves, and we'll do it for each other. And there's a lot of lesbian women and a lot of female nurses who went in. We were like, we will take care of them. We'll do this, and we'll take these risks, because this is. We cannot just let these men die to protect ourselves. Like, that is not the point of being a nurse or a doctor. And they weren't the only ones who felt that way, thank God. And because of that, then, essentially, after being able to give that care, they proved that you can give that care. Right? And basically, they went out there and they were the first line, first responders to go, look, we did it, and we didn't catch it, therefore you need to do it. The idea that they had to do that, though, right? And not know, and the in between of all the people that died alone and isolated, and it's just. It's disgusting and horrible. So when Cliff asked those patients what they wanted out of the ward, he said the first quote, the first thing I heard was, I want to feel like I'm being treated like a person. They said, I want people who are not afraid of me. I want people to touch me. I want to know that I'm going to be cleaned up every day. They were talking about being treated with dignity and compassion.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, basics.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The very. The lowest bar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the virus that causes AIDS, HIV, is finally identified in May of 1983. And two months later, in July of 1983, Ward 5B officially opens to the public. It's helmed by head nurse Allison Moed, who oversees a team of 11 dedicated nurses. Some of these nurses are straight, some are gay. All of them have agreed to put aside their personal fears surrounding AIDS to offer compassionate care to their sick and vulnerable patients. Allison later says, quote, I was enthralled by this idea of love for your fellow being. This was a confluence of nurses, of people who wanted to take care of this population that had been stigmatized, discriminated against, not cared for during a period of their lives where their lives were ending professionally. How do we care for them? Caring is what we were about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. Imagine that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So 5B is unlike anywhere else at the time. Here, the doctors and nurses don't speak down to their patients, and they certainly don't judge them. In fact, patients are treated as a member of their own care team, and they're involved in all the conversation about their treatment. 5B is one of the only units in the US where people can visit outside of set visiting hours.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And those visitors don't have to be literal family members in the biological sense. They can be members of the patient's chosen family. The staff even sneaks in their patient's pets when they can. Also, on 5B staffers don't use the same full body PPE. Many other facilities across the country do. Instead, they wear protective equipment when necessary. The 5B staff use common sense precautions that keep the patient's dignity in mind. Remembering the value of human touch and connection. Cliff says, quote, we knew by now that AIDS was not transmitted casually. I had no qualms about climbing onto the bed with my patients to hold them. That had never been done before. As a nurse, you might touch someone's hand, but you would never take them in your arms.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God, the image.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. This is a huge deal for a sense of timeline. This is five years before that famous moment where Princess Diana made history publicly shaking the hand of someone with hiv. Five years before that, yeah. So it was at a time where touching a person who had aids, let alone holding them to provide comfort, is seen as extremely risky by almost every. There's also a large outside component to Ward 5B, which includes a roster of volunteers from the gay community, local hospices, and the Shanty Project who do things like decorate and furnish the ward. That's so hacky. It's like the gay men go in and they're like, oh, the lighting in here is terrible. It's just like. But it matters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It's all about dignity.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It's quality of life. They also run errands, they offer counseling. They look for housing for the patients when they get discharged. Because there are patients who are getting discharged. Nurse Alison Mowad says, quote, on a broad level, we learned how to take care of patients who were going through this terrible disease. It was about caring, not about curing. It was about touching and interacting, letting people know they were safe, letting people know that they were accepted. Letting people know that their wishes were going to be listened to, that their thoughts about their care and options were going to be respected and heard. That was not necessarily the mode in those days. So very quickly, the demand for Ward 5B exceeds its capacity. When a patient passes away and a bed becomes Available, it's quickly filled by someone from a lengthy wait list. Then, In May of 1986, the unit expands into Ward 5A, adding about 30 more beds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So as Ward 5B's profile rises, politicians, advocates, and celebrities stop by to show support for the staff's efforts and the patient's recovery. Of course, given the stigma around HIV and AIDS at the time, not everyone is in support of what's going on at SF General. Homophobic members of the public are incensed that public dollars have gone to the funding of 5B. And in cases where the patients are well enough to move around the hospital and visit the Capture cafeteria, hysteria erupts around 5B patients using the water fountains.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A group of four nurses even sues San Francisco General over fears that 5B is risking their personal health. But that case is ultimately shot down as 5B's model of care is deemed safe and appropriate treatment. Before long, it becomes the gold standard for HIV and AIDS care throughout the world. Meanwhile, the mission of 5B stands firm. In 1985, the New York Times reports that just two staffers have left the ward in its first two years of operation, which is, quote, a much lower number than hospital wards normally experience. Alison Moed says, quote, we learn that compassion is one of those things that doesn't become depleted. The more you give it, it actually replenishes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's one of those things where the more you give, the better you. You feel and want to give. That's what love's about, right? There was a very loving exchange and loving feeling on the unit, and I know you could see it. We were really committed to what we were doing and passionate about being able to do it. So by the mid-1990s, advancements in medication change everything. An AIDS diagnosis is no longer an automatic death sentence. And before long, hiv. HIV is regarded as a manageable chronic condition. Fewer and fewer beds in wards 5A and 5B are occupied, and by 2006, both wards are officially disbanded.

[Karen Kilgariff]

2006. That's like such a long time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Such a long time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Cliff Morrison continues working as an advocate for those people with HIV and aids. In interviews, he's not one to talk about his own emotions or experience. Experience, which is on brand for such a dedicated healthcare provider. But like so many gay men of his age, he lost an unimaginable number of loved ones to this disease. Cliff has said, quote, I have dealt with survivor's guilt on and off through the years and still suffer from ptsd. I don't have any peers because they all died. Today. The majority of my friends are 20 years younger than me. But I have absolutely no regrets. I would do it all again. I was a gay man, but I was a nurse first. The impact of his work with 5B endures. Today there's a memorial plaque hanging at the hospital that says, quote, On July 25, 1983, here on Ward 5B, a group of caregivers gathered to confront a new epidemic, aids. They created a haven of acceptance and compassion at a time when others were calling for isolation and. And rejection. They saw fellow human beings where others saw only disease and contagion. Together with a generous, loving, volunteer community, they developed a world renowned center of excellence dedicated to quality of care for the living and the dying. This plaque commemorates all who served here and remembers all who died. And that is the story of Cliff Morrison and the heroic staff at Ward 5B.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I am A. I mean, holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Unbelievable. Good job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I think being in any way first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is one of the hardest things to do. You don't have anybody behind you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Especially like in Cliff's situation, he was having to teach and basically lecture doctors of like that whole thing of, I'd have it, I have it already. If it's bad, I have it. So there's no reason I don't go take care of my friend. And that kind of energy, which is like risking it. That's the ultimate sacrifice for something as. So you're not just standing by letting something go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like courageous compassion. And being the first person to do that is scary and hard, but must be done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then you become. Cliff became this example of like, well, if he's doing it, then it must be okay for me. Which must mean that this hysteria is not the truth. That it's essentially like we actually have to figure. And now you know, now we know that like there was very specific ways that HIV was transmitted. So that whole idea was completely incorrect. It was just no one knew the exact medical truth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, because there wasn't enough research going into it because the government was ignoring.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It completely because the president wouldn't say it was happening. I mean, like, if you want to read Cliff Morrison's actual own writing about this, there is a website you can go to. It'll be listed in the sources. And it's an article he wrote called they did not Die Peacefully. And he wrote it in 2011. So it really is like the firsthand account. If you're looking for that. That's the source that you should pull and read because I'm his firsthand account, you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's incredible what everyone should read.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I do what I do best and recommend a fictionalized version of this in a book in book form? This sounds exactly like a book that I listened to recently that was incredible. That I highly recommend is called the Great Believer by Rebecca Mackay. It's an incredible book. It takes place in the 1980s in this world in Chicago and it just gives you, you know, it's almost historical fiction and it gives you a time and a place of this specific one that is. That's hard to imagine unless you've lived through it, but so necessary so we can have compassion and empathy. Yeah, well, great job. I mean, what a fucking episode, right? Yeah. Hard hitting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're kicking off December the way only we can.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep, that's what we're here for. If you know, go listen to your wrong about too. If you want more info. That's right, more interesting info.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And be brave and take care of your fellow man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And do your best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do your best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You've got it in you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You do. Be first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And stay sexy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Georgia Hardstark]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squalace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our researchers are Marin McLasion and Allie Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder. Gmail. Com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at myfavoritemurder. Goodbye.