462 - We Own This Table

Summary

Podcast Summary: "My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark"
Episode 462: "We Own This Table"
Release Date: January 9, 2025

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Introduction

[00:01] Kara Klenk: "This is exactly right."
[00:38] Kara Klenk: "And I'm Kara Klenk. And we're the hosts of the true crime comedy podcast that's Messed Up. An SVU podcast."

In this episode, hosts Kara Klenk and Georgia Hardstark kick off with their characteristic banter, setting a relaxed and humorous tone. They briefly mention their recent vacation and tease the content of the episode, which delves into gripping true crime stories.

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Segment 1: Personal Updates and Recommendations

[02:12] Georgia Hardstark: "How was your break?"
[02:13] Kara Klenk: "It was very nice. I spent a month on my dad's couch watching football... and watching people get their hair cut. My favorite."

The hosts share personal anecdotes about their recent breaks, including Kara's time spent on TikTok and Georgia's admiration for a hairdressing segment from Dubai. They also exchange recommendations for TV shows and audiobooks, highlighting popular titles like "Ripley" and "The World According to Cunk."

Notable Quote:
[06:27] Georgia Hardstark: "Philomena Cunk has come out with an audiobook called The World According to Cunk, and it's a history of the world. It is so fucking hilarious that I scared the cats laughing so loud when I was listening to it."

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Segment 2: Network Highlights

[12:01] Kara Klenk: "We have a podcast called Buried Bones with two of probably true crime's biggest stars, Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes."

Kara and Georgia take a moment to highlight other podcasts within the Exactly Right Media network, showcasing a variety of true crime, comedic, and cultural content. They mention specific episodes and guest appearances, emphasizing the network's diverse offerings.

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Segment 3: Farewell to Dr. Dan

[13:38] Georgia Hardstark: "Dr. Dan and Laura, thank you guys so much for being a part of Exactly Right. Yes, we are. And forever big fans."

The hosts bid farewell to Dr. Dan, a beloved member of the network, expressing gratitude for his contributions over the past five years. They acknowledge his departure from the network and wish him well in his future endeavors.

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Segment 4: The Murder of Carol Morgan

[14:34] Kara Klenk: "Story time is about to begin. Are you ready to hear a story?"
[14:44] Georgia Hardstark: "We're gonna start in the town called Leeton Buzzard."

Case Overview:

• Victim: Carol Morgan, a well-liked local shopkeeper in Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, England.
• Date of Murder: August 13, 1981.
• Circumstances: Carol was found brutally murdered in her store, with signs of a violent attack suggesting the use of a machete, cleaver, or axe. The perpetrator stole £500 and 105 packs of cigarettes.
• Suspect: Carol's husband, Alan Morgan, became the primary suspect due to his affair with Margaret and financial troubles related to their store.
• Investigation: Despite a solid alibi, Alan's suspicious behavior and financial discrepancies led to his eventual conviction in 2024 after a teenage girl came forward with crucial information.

Notable Quotes:
[21:49] Kara Klenk: "You gotta do some PR training. If you are that psychopathic, slash sociopathic, we're not sure."
[26:28] Kara Klenk: "But you can't even fake it."

Key Points:

• Family Impact: Carol's children struggled with the truth about their stepfather, leading to strained relationships and emotional trauma.
• Community Reaction: The murder haunted the small town for decades, with renewed interest leading to Alan's conviction.
• Unsolved Elements: Despite Alan's life imprisonment, questions remain about the actual perpetrator he might have hired, leaving the case partially unresolved.

---

Segment 5: The Escapes of Michel Vajour

[14:34] Georgia Hardstark: "It's a little town where something dark happened."
[14:36] Kara Klenk: "And this is the story of the murder of Carol Morgan."

Note: The transcript transitions into a second story about a French criminal, Michel Vajour, detailing his multiple prison escapes and eventual rehabilitation.

Case Overview:

• Subject: Michel Vajour, a French criminal known for multiple prison escapes.
• Background: Born in 1951, Michel had a troubled childhood with an abusive father and a nurturing aunt who later passed away, leading to further instability.
• Criminal Activities: Initially involved in non-violent crimes like car theft, Michel's frustration with the justice system led him to orchestrate bold and cinematic prison escapes.
• Escape Attempts:
  • First Escape: Scaled the prison wall using parkour techniques.
  • Second Escape: Swapped places with a more seasoned criminal, Gilles, to gain access to less secure areas.
  • Third Escape: Crafted a realistic-looking gun from soap to intimidate guards and make his escape with the help of his wife, Nadine, piloting a helicopter.
• Rehabilitation: After decades of crime and multiple incarcerations, including solitary confinement, Michel claims to have reformed, marrying a law student named Jamilla and leading a law-abiding life in his later years.

Notable Quotes:
[47:16] Kara Klenk: "That's what prison was made for. I remember saying to someone once that I wouldn't be surprised to find it in a dictionary: prison, a place to escape from."
[62:48] Kara Klenk: "So Michelle's life is bleak. And just when he starts to consider actually maybe ending it, a new thought takes over—the idea of escaping once again."

Key Points:

• Psychological Impact: Michel's repeated escapes highlight his resilience and desperation, as well as the profound effects of prolonged solitary confinement on his mental health.
• Innovative Escapes: Michel's ingenuity in crafting escape tools and planning strategic breakouts showcases his determination and resourcefulness.
• Final Rehabilitation: Despite his tumultuous past, Michel's later life suggests a significant turnaround, emphasizing themes of redemption and personal transformation.

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Conclusion: Listener Engagement and Manifestations for 2025

[68:22] Kara Klenk: "Everyone send us fucking a message, please."
[71:13] Georgia Hardstark: "It's a beautiful place to be and a loud reminder that we haven't met everyone we will love."

The episode wraps up with the hosts sharing heartfelt manifestations and messages from listeners for the year 2025. They encourage continued listener engagement and express gratitude for their growing community.

Notable Quotes:
[67:01] Kara Klenk: "And that is the energy we're looking for."
[71:38] Kara Klenk: "If we wanted to, we could take these microphones home tonight. Kind of fuck people over."

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Production Credits

• Senior Producer: Alejandra Keck
• Managing Producer: Hannah Kyle Creighton
• Editor: Aristotle Acevedo
• Mixing: Liana Squillace
• Researchers: Maren McLachen and Ali Elkin

Contact Information:
Email your hometown story to myfavoritemurdermail.com.
Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at "My Favorite Murder."

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Final Thoughts

Episode 462 of "My Favorite Murder" intertwines personal updates, network highlights, and two compelling true crime stories that span decades and continents. The hosts maintain their signature blend of humor and empathy, providing listeners with both entertainment and insightful narratives. From the haunting murder of Carol Morgan to the audacious escapes of Michel Vajour, the episode underscores themes of justice, redemption, and the enduring impact of unresolved crimes on individuals and communities.

Closing Quote:
[72:59] Georgia Hardstark: "Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?"

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Disclaimer: All stories discussed are based on the provided transcript and podcast information. Listeners are encouraged to tune in for the full experience.

Transcript

[Kara Klenk]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Do you have a point of sale system you can trust or is it a real pos? You need Shopify for retail. From accepting payments to managing inventory, Shopify POS has everything you need to sell in person. Go to shopify.comsystem, all lowercase, to take your retail business to the next level. Today, that's shopify.com systeme. Listen up. I'm Liza Traeger.

[Kara Klenk]

And I'm Kara Klenk. And we're the hosts of the true crime comedy podcast that's Messed Up. An SVU podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Every Tuesday, we break down an episode of Law and svu, the true crime it's based on, and we chat with an actor from the episode.

[Kara Klenk]

Over the past few years, we've chatted with series icons like Phoebe Wong, Kelly Giddish, Danny Pino, and guest stars like Padgett Brewster and Matthew Lillard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And just like an SVU marathon, you can jump in anywhere.

[Kara Klenk]

Don't miss new episodes. Every Tuesday follow that's Messed up and SVU Podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts done, done my favor. Hello and wel.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Welcome loudly to my favorite murder.

[Kara Klenk]

That's Georgia Hardstark.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Karen Kilgariff.

[Kara Klenk]

We are in 2025. 25 mode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God damn it, we are. This is, like, not new to you. We've already done an episode in 2025. Except we recorded that way back in the olden days. 25 years ago in 2024.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, for us it was last year. We tricked you. Yeah, sorry, sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're back after a fucking month long vacay.

[Kara Klenk]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Senses are overloaded.

[Kara Klenk]

It's very intense in here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, the contour is contouring.

[Kara Klenk]

My sleeves are down over my hands like Jennifer Love Hewitt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cute.

[Kara Klenk]

Cozy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How was your break?

[Kara Klenk]

It was very nice. I spent a month on my dad's couch watching football. Well, he was watching football with the audio going directly into his hearing aids.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice.

[Kara Klenk]

So it was silent out in the room so I could freely watch TikTok for eight hours straight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you did.

[Kara Klenk]

Oh, I've learned a lot of new affirmations. Yeah, A lot of dense bean salad recipes. A lot of watching people get their hair cut. My favorite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a good one.

[Kara Klenk]

Did we talk about the man in Dubai?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Kara Klenk]

Ugh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What does he do?

[Kara Klenk]

He redoes women's hair. He, like, fixes their hair color and texture and it every time. And he also touches their hair so much that it's a little erotic. And it is One of my favorite things to watch. And it's just like women sitting there trying to explain why their hair looks the way it does, which. Haven't we all done that in the hairdressers?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It does this. There's a. I know it does this one thing here.

[Kara Klenk]

So I started doing these parts myself. And that's why this is orange and this is dark brown. It's a lot of that. And then at the end, he doesn't ever do the trick where it's supposed to be a part two.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, thank God. I fucking hate those.

[Kara Klenk]

Always self contained.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

Very respectful. And basically at the end, he makes their hair look like natural, not dyed, whatever. And then he just kind of pulls his hands through it to show shimmery and shiny and silky and how good the layers are. It is quality content.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. MFM from Dubai Live, our first live show in fucking 10 years or whatever, is coming at you from Dubai from his hair salon.

[Kara Klenk]

We're both getting makeovers. It's a 10 hour episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

US getting our hair done.

[Kara Klenk]

Get ready.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want extensions. Like real, for real Mormon. Tick tock, mom extensions.

[Kara Klenk]

And I'll get you a big brown felt hat to wear on top of these.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I need it. That's a little girl.

[Kara Klenk]

You'll be ready for autumn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mom talk. Oh my God. Mom talk.

[Kara Klenk]

We've been away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't remember how to do this.

[Kara Klenk]

I mean, how? It's just chatting at the top, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Okay, I have two things I wrote down because I was like, you're going to forget this by the time vacation's over.

[Kara Klenk]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Recommendations. And I bet you've already watched it, but Vince and I binged the fuck out of Ripley. Did you watch it?

[Kara Klenk]

Which one was that? How's your neck?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I actually threw my back out.

[Kara Klenk]

Did you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

The reason I did that is because this dress is so fucking tight. Seriously, it's like barely fits. Which is fine. You have to wear a dress for your back. What?

[Kara Klenk]

I didn't know you had wear truss for your back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, this dress barely fits. No, this vintage dress, this truss is so tight.

[Kara Klenk]

And I'm like, oh my God, that's so sad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now your back is so bad.

[Kara Klenk]

Cause the way you turned, I was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, no, it's this dress. There's not a moment to breathe in this dress. There's not a millimeter of a moment for me to breathe out in this dress.

[Kara Klenk]

It's kind of acting as a tress.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is acting as a tress.

[Kara Klenk]

Acting as. I guess it is a really good dress though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank You. This is like. Yeah, I'm obsessed with this.

[Kara Klenk]

It's a pattern that only ever happened in 1967, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

Or 71 around there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you go to our social media or our YouTube, you can see the dress.

[Kara Klenk]

Oh, yes. Look at her. Look at her go. With all her colors and her patterns.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It barely fits.

[Kara Klenk]

This is what Jan Brady wore to the winter formal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ripley is the one with amazing Andrew Scott, the Hot priest.

[Kara Klenk]

Oh, dude.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's based on, like, the. What's the called? Ripley.

[Kara Klenk]

The wonderful Mr. Ripley. What was it? The. Looking for the God Mike Interruption. The Talented mystery. Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what we're not. That's the one word that doesn't get thrown around a lot here at my favorite murder.

[Kara Klenk]

It's so beautiful. It's so compelling.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so incredible.

[Kara Klenk]

And if you're a kind of like state school dropout dummy like me, who sees a black and white series and goes, I can't handle this, Just hang on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Definitely. It's so fucking good, you won't believe your eyes. It's incredible. So we binged that. And then I have a book recommendation that I'm so in love with. I'm so excited to talk about. It's an audiobook.

[Kara Klenk]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Philomena Kunk.

[Kara Klenk]

Kunk on Earth. You've probably seen on Netflix some of the funniest. Like some of the funniest hard jokes I've seen on tv, but in that dry English way. So dry. And so she just doesn't like anything? No. She doesn't approve of Jesus or Van.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gogh or really anything and doesn't understand it. And is that her fault?

[Kara Klenk]

No, she thinks it's all stupid.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. So the incredible Philomena Cunk, played by the incredible comedian Diane Morgan. Philomena Cunk has come out with an audiobook called the World According to Cunk, and it's a history of the world.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is so fucking hilarious that I scared the cats laughing so loud when I was listening to it.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just so joyous. I can't recommend it enough.

[Kara Klenk]

Well, you know what? I'll do a parallel off the cuff recommendation. And this is secondhand from my sister Laura. But she literally texted me last night because she was watching Nate Bargazzi's comedy special and she was like, I'm watching his comedy. Cause I told her, I'm like, you will love it and it'll do it for you. Cause she gets very stressed out watching comedy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I get it.

[Kara Klenk]

As many of us do. I'm like, you'll love it. Whatever. She texts me and she's like, I'm just sitting in my room laughing out loud. It's insane. So we were just talking about this earlier, like, if anybody deserves the massive success he is attaining right now, it's Nate Bragazzi. He's one of the nicest, coolest. He's exactly what he's like in his comedy act. I love the way he does comedy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's fucking hilarious also. How exciting is it to see fucking Nikki Glazer absolutely fucking killing it. Same with her. She's the exact same person on stage as she is in fucking person. She's so lovely.

[Kara Klenk]

I'm so excited and so talented.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So talented.

[Kara Klenk]

Again, those hard jokes where some people make it very easy, but it's like, that's the money right there. And she is. That's her whole act and always has been. We got to see her one year at the High Plains Comedy Festival, headlining this huge theater, and I just had never. I'd only ever seen her pieces and parts and to watch her do an hour, however long she did, 30 minutes or something, it was just like, I was just so proud of her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's great.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yay for her.

[Kara Klenk]

Very cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know, like, we're coming up on nine years doing this podcast. No. You're shaking your head as if no.

[Kara Klenk]

I just don't know about that. I just. It's bewildering because when I told you in like month four to get your hopes down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you did.

[Kara Klenk]

I really, really didn't want you to get run over by the show business bus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

I mean, I feel very grateful to have been as wrong as I was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

But it's so weird that all of my experience up until that point literally was like, you could bet money on it. You could set a time or two people having like this little of success and then going straight down into a P. Like, basically like crashing their car, getting someone pregnant, going to a mental hospital.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, we've done two or three of those things.

[Kara Klenk]

We've done a couple.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Literally.

[Kara Klenk]

We can do it all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have you been pregnant? I haven't been pregnant. Yes.

[Kara Klenk]

A couple times. It's not your business and it's certainly not my business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Kara Klenk]

But I just. It's just so weird to me because I was like, well, if this is gonna go anyway, it's just gonna go this one way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I mean, you're not wrong. There has been a bus run over feeling to it and I am a very changed person. And it has been. I did check myself into a mental health facility a couple years back because it was so bus hittingly awful.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes, I do know. Yeah, you know, Well, I, I knew that, but I also have felt that with you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So that's been a total change. We're about to like kind of step into a new chapter. One would say.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With podcasts and the network. As far as like our new home.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes, we're going to have a new home. We're not gonna be independent anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So we've been independent the past year.

[Kara Klenk]

And it's been, it's been equally amazing and empowering and great. But then also this show in particular is too big to be independent. Right. Which is the weird irony of being in this business where like once you get out past a certain point.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

You like have to keep going and you have to keep going up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Kara Klenk]

Which is maybe the pressure you're talking about and maybe that feeling. And. Yeah. And the difficulty that we've had in the past is like, it's cool. Because right in this moment we get to do a thing we could never do, which is talk about anything. Because when you are in contract with a company, you are literally and legally not allowed to have feelings that you share publicly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Which fucking feels terrible and sucks. So what I really hope for this moment, after this year of being independent, is that we, and I think what's going to happen with this new company, and it's the reason we are going to go with them, is that we respect them. And it seems like they respect us. And I keep reading things about like, the podcast industry is changing. Look at the numbers then compared to now. But what really, what's changing is that we're kind of going back to our roots. And what that means is that this podcast network that means so much to us, this podcast itself and our listeners are who we're doing this for. And I'm excited to get back to normalcy a little bit. Okay, so look, here's the point. We are excited for the future.

[Kara Klenk]

That's right. Oh, and also we have a podcast network. And here's some highlights from that. We have a podcast called Buried Bones with two of probably true crime's biggest stars, Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holz. And on their podcast this week, they dive into the first episode of a two part series that takes us back to 1970s Baltimore where a teacher at an all girls Catholic high school goes missing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then over on everyone's favorite car based podcast, do youo Need a Ride. Comedian Sabrina Jalees hops in the car to talk to Karen and Chris about life, hope, and ayahuasca, baby.

[Kara Klenk]

Hey. That was actually one of my favorite episodes because we were supposed to record it on the day after the election.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh.

[Kara Klenk]

And so of course, we canceled that and then we reset it for like two weeks later, and we had a really funny conversation about that. And I didn't know her. I'd seen her and heard of her. Truly one of my favorite people. Sabrina Jolie is such a cool person. So then on this week's episode of Ghosted by Roz Hernandez, it's titled John Gabris is not allowed to use the Ouija board, which pretty much tells you everything you need to know about that episode. Go listen to that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then also, it's a new year and there are new ways to die on this podcast will kill you. One of my faves, for example, this week, Aaron and Aaron start a two part series on what thing that fucking plagues me forever. Fucking allergies.

[Kara Klenk]

Allergies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like I never am. Not without a fucking disgusting tissue. It's so irritating.

[Kara Klenk]

Georgia just pulled a tissue out of her trust, if you can believe that shit. Also, really quick, before we get into our business, we just wanted to say our beautiful friend Dr. Dan over on Parent Footprint is leaving the network. We loved having him for the. I think it's been five years, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's been about five years.

[Kara Klenk]

It's been about five years. And we were just so thankful that we got to have his parenting advice and expertise. He's so good at what he does and he's a member of the family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He literally is my cousin. I saw him at Hanukkah. He's lovely and kind. He's gonna take the podcast in a new direction and kind of his career, too. I'm really excited to see what comes next. And Dr. Dan and Laura, thank you guys so much for being a part of. Exactly. Right. Yes, we are. And forever big fans.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes, for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, all right. I'm first. Okay.

[Kara Klenk]

Cinch your trust.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cinch your trust and sit up straight and tell us a story.

[Kara Klenk]

Cause story time is about to begin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you ready to hear a story?

[Kara Klenk]

Yes, I am.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, well, we're gonna start in the town called Leeton Buzzard.

[Kara Klenk]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Guess where it is.

[Kara Klenk]

Texas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

England. Oh, Leighton Buzzard. Like, what is that even? I think it's Layton. Georgia Layton.

[Kara Klenk]

My guess would have been different if I knew that it was pronounced differently.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Leighton Buzzard. Like, it's just like, how In England. Some places are like Remington Spa, you know, like Spa. What, so buzzards the same.

[Kara Klenk]

Kind of be by the sea. Yeah, it's like, you know what? Can you just name a town? Keep it moving.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's pretty adorable.

[Kara Klenk]

I mean, they're precious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And this town is super picturesque. It's a little town in Bedfordshire, England. What?

[Kara Klenk]

Just picturesque. But a huge buzzard is constantly circling overhead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're known for their buzzards. It's right outside of London, north of London. It's between Oxford and Cambridge, in case you know where either of those two fucking places are.

[Kara Klenk]

Well, that's where I went to summer school, so sure, I went to both and just commuted back and forth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, boarding. When you went to boarding school?

[Kara Klenk]

Boarding, summer school. I summered at Oxford.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, then you know that it's got those cute cobbled streets. Everything is made of brick. It's really darling. There's cute pubs, local shops. It's just a small chill town. And it's actually such a small town that when I looked for local celebrities to tell you about, the only one I recognized was the 1980s pop band Kaja Goo.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes, they're from Leighton Buzzard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're from Leighton Buzzard. They're the one. They had the 1983 hit single too shy.

[Kara Klenk]

Oh, I'll sing it for you right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is now gonna be stuck in your head. Go.

[Kara Klenk]

We can't do it. Oh, we can't get in trouble.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you do it if you just sing it.

[Kara Klenk]

Too shy Shy Hush, hush. I do I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so they're. But they're from there.

[Kara Klenk]

They did a great job. And you know, it's easy for people to say one hit wonder, but you write a fucking song that everybody likes. Yeah, I mean, it's like one hit to you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But what about me and my heart?

[Kara Klenk]

Also yeah. It does not reflect the size that Kaji looms large like a buzzard in my heart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't fucking tell me D Light is a one hit wonder. I know every fucking word to every album.

[Kara Klenk]

Now. That's what I have to sing. If you start talking about delight, this has gotten personal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the town has that charming, sleepy vibe to it. And outside. Outside the bustle of London. So it's the last place, of course, that one would think something dark would happen. Except if you're in a true crime and then you expect it.

[Kara Klenk]

You absolutely know the more precious a little town is. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't be a precious town. Evil don't light up a room don't make everyone smile.

[Kara Klenk]

David lynch knows this, we know it and you know it as a listener.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So. But back In August of 1981, that peaceful facade was shattered when a well liked, friendly local shopkeeper was found brutally murdered in the back of her convenience store. What followed was a case that went cold for 40 years until a then teenage girl came forward with a shocking admission and the whole case unraveled. This is the story of the murder of Carol Morgan. The main sources I use for this story are remarks from the judge from an. From the eventual sentencing in this case, and reporting from the BBC, of course. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So. So we're in 1981, and Carol and Alan are a couple who met in a support group for divorced people and got married four years later. Carol's 36. Allen is a younger man at 31.

[Kara Klenk]

Hot. If you're in a support group for divorced people, you can't tell me that you're just not even listening to anything anyone's saying. Cause you're just absolutely shopping the entire time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, for sure. You're there, like for one reason alone.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah. Was anyone in that support group, like, disheveled? I don't think so, no. Unless it was not co ed. Sorry, I couldn't think of that word.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's also so funny. And this is like, you know, when we're always like, in today's money. That would be whatever. It's also like in today's age, 31 is actually 45.

[Kara Klenk]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I mean?

[Kara Klenk]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they do look like this typical British couple. She's got this pretty, like feathery blonde bob. He's got this weird Caesar cut and looks kind of sketch, you know, but very British. And like 36 and 31 is like actually in your late 40s in England in the 80s.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Kara Klenk]

All of us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All of us.

[Kara Klenk]

I mean, yeah. Not a pretty time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So together they're raising two kids, Dean, who's 14, and Jane, who's 12. And the kids are from Carol's previous marriage. And for the past year and a half, the Morgans have owned and operated a little corner store in a residential neighborhood. It's described interchangeably as a convenience store and a newsstand. So I think it's like that, but British. So kind of the like place where you buy a newspaper or candy or cigarettes. Just kind of like a pop in. Little British, you know, Grocer. Green grocer.

[Kara Klenk]

No, nothing green though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bodega, let's say.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, maybe, maybe. But more newspapers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. So I can't breathe in this fucking dry. So the family lives in the apartment above the shop. Carol is well liked in the village and is known for being kind and helpful around the shop. And she's often described as a absolutely devoted mother to her two children. So here we are, it's a Thursday night, August 13th, 1981. That evening, Ellen had taken the teens to a double feature movie in nearby Lutton. Now, the three of them going to see a movie is actually unusual in itself. This stepdad taking the two, a 12 and 14 year old, to see this movie is weird because Alan didn't really spend a lot of time with the kids when Carol wasn't around. In fact, the family didn't do much together at all anymore, especially because there's tension in the marriage. But for some reason that night they go to a double feature and things seem fine. They get back to the shop around 10:45pm when they come back, Alan sends the kids up to the apartment while he goes into the shop. When he goes in, he sees that it's a mess and merchandise is scattered everywhere, almost like there's been a robbery. He proceeds to the storeroom in the back, and there he's met with a horrifying discovery of Carol's body. She's lying in a pool of blood. Her body had been savagely attacked with what investigators will later believe to be either a machete or a cleaver or an axe.

[Kara Klenk]

Horrible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know she's been struck between 10 and 15 times. It's completely savage. The main investigator later says it was, quote, the worst attack I've seen on a human being.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The perpetrator had also robbed the store of 500 pounds, which in today's money would be worth.

[Kara Klenk]

Pounds. Are they always above us?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think it varies.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, I guess that's true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm not an economics.

[Kara Klenk]

Well, let's see. Roughly 500 in the 80s in pounds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It would be easier.

[Kara Klenk]

It would be like $2,500 today, 3,100.

[Georgia Hardstark]

About so close.

[Kara Klenk]

Okay, so almost nothing for brutally and savagely murdering the person that works there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. And actually it's also weird because the cash wasn't stolen from the register. It was stolen from a hard to find drawer in the shop's back office. Which to me, actually isn't that weird. Like if someone were threatening her, like, where's the money? I want more like you're gonna lead them to it, you know?

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like one of those things where they're always like, it's weird cause it Wasn't forced entry, so they must have known their perpetrator. But it's like people answer the fucking door all the time and then people kick their way, you know, it's just. Okay.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Anyway. And the killer also steals 105 packs of cigarettes.

[Kara Klenk]

I feel like no matter what this is gonna turn into, that by itself was a crime of opportunity where it's just like that's. You're in a store and you're just like, I'm going to get everything right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, let me get.

[Kara Klenk]

And if you already.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ugh. God.

[Kara Klenk]

Though it's just such a. That kind of murder. There's all kinds of. It's all horrible, but that especially where it's very, very gruesome and there's a lot of blood. The idea that you aren't like as a human being just totally in shock yourself or like and just leaving. No, you're actually turning around and going, like, what do I need before you meet? Is just psycho.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. Like the having the wherewithal to then go about your business is or think clearly speaks to how evil. Absolutely. So Detective Superintendent Ryan Prickett of the local police is put on the case. And investigators quickly hear from multiple witnesses that a young man with light brown hair who's about 5ft 6 inches tall was seen near the shop on the evening of Carol's murder. And there's a composite sketch drawn. Witnesses say he was seen clutching two plastic shopping bags to his chest. So probably with a cigarette. They say the man left in a station wagon that was parked outside the shop. The police obviously quickly confirmed that Allen couldn't have committed the murders. His alibi is completely solid because he was at the movies, weirdly. But as the investigation goes on, Allen, of course starts to look suspicious. As it turns out, Allen had a pretty shady side. A lot of people in the neighborhood have had bad interactions with him and they hear from multiple people that he has a reputation of saying offensive things, particularly to women, and that he's known to be a bit of a bully. Neighbors who live near the shop and where the Morgans live say that Allen is known to have had several relationships with other women. It's like a well known fact about town. Allen himself tells the police of his own volition that he has been in a relationship with another woman for some time. Just tells him that in fact, everyone knows about this relationship. It's with a woman named Margaret. And not long before Caril's murder, Margaret's husband had gone into the shop to confront Allen about it. Allan and Carol's marriage had been very strained because of this, because Caril knew about the affair. But the month before she died, she had told her uncle that she and Allen were trying to give things another shot. So it doesn't take long for rumors to start to circulate that Allen had something to do with his wife's death. And this is just so absurd. There is this news footage of him being interviewed outside the shop in the months following the murder. And in it, Alan addresses these rumors. It's so fucking absurd. The reporter's like, you know, why are people saying stuff about you? What are they saying? And he says, quote, to be offhand, that I killed my wife. But as the police know, and as you yourselves know, well, I was in Latin taking the kids to the pictures, end quote. And he's just, like, totally casual about it, as if he's talking about, like, a robbery.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And not the brutal murder of his wife. Saying, like, that I'm not a suspect.

[Kara Klenk]

He's making sure to really get it out there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Everyone knows that. Yeah. And then when asked why people think he killed his wife, he says, I was happy. Go lucky. I suppose, like, afterwards, I was a bit of a womanizer, but that's all. I didn't profit from it. End quote. And then when asked how Carol's death has affected him, this is the fucking craziest. Alan says, quote, affect me? Well, I closed the business for seven weeks while the police were investigating it. I lost a lot of stock I had to throw out, and I've had to sell the business at a loss. End quote. That's how the murder has affected him. So, like, you can't even fake it.

[Kara Klenk]

You gotta do some PR training. If you are that psychopathic, slash sociopathic, we're not sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

Cause you really did yourself a disservice on that one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, you don't even know to pretend to cry. I'm not saying that that's okay and that should happen, but everyone else knows, like, this is how you're like, just do these little things.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah. At least pretend.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. But, God, when you're that far gone, you don't even understand that pretending is necessary.

[Kara Klenk]

Well, because think of it that way, where it's like, we have cried on this podcast about people getting killed 40 years ago. And it's like, this is your wife and it just happened.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Kara Klenk]

So what are you, Three months ago, you have. You're not accessing any emotion whatsoever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. That's a good point. So then the investigators look into the couple's Finances. And they find that the shop hadn't been doing great. The foot traffic in the area isn't very heavy and the margins at a store like that are very tight, you know. And the couple had recently bounced a check to one of their suppliers and they had looked into selling the shop and opening in another location, which Carol had wanted to do after she found out about the affair, to get a fresh start. But. But doing that was tricky because Alan and Carol had opened the store with the money Carol had gotten from selling her house, her old house, and a 6,000 pound loan, which in today's money, 6,000 pound loan, 500 pounds worth $3,000 around. I mean like 12,037, 484. Okay, so that's a big fucking loan.

[Kara Klenk]

It's a big loan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They still owed too much on the shop to sell it and open a different store. And the loan is tied to say it with me, life insurance policies on both Alan and Carol. If either of them were to die, proceeds from their life insurance would pay off the loan.

[Kara Klenk]

Do they still do that? That seems like a very bad idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It does, doesn't it? I mean, it's just so ugly and sad.

[Kara Klenk]

It is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And there's more. Police find out that in the days leading up to Carol's murder, Allen had made several large cash withdrawals from his bank account. He had also ordered an unusually large amount of cigarettes for the store.

[Kara Klenk]

Oh yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Almost like I can pay you in the cash that's in the drawer in the back and in cigarettes.

[Kara Klenk]

That is. Turns my stomach.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

Where it's like, that's what your wife's life is worth. Like what is wrong with you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And his strange behavior, of course, doesn't go unnoticed, especially when in sharp contrast to Alan's reaction, an anonymous person from the community who's described simply as a businessman, puts up a 5,000 pound reward for information leading to the capture and conviction of Carol's killer. And he says it's because, quote, our town shouldn't have to live in fear of a maniac like this. End quote. So it's just a concerned citizen who's uncomfortable with a murder like this, you know, going unsolved in his town. And he fucking cares more. Unfortunately, this financial information that they were struggling about the life insurance, about the loan, all of that stuff is never revealed to the public or to Allen himself. They never told him that they knew that. And their reasoning was that they were hoping that by giving Allen a sense of confidence he would slip up and reveal more. Either to them or the media or like brag to friends or some shit. But it doesn't happen. But they still don't release that information, which I don't know, to me sounds like important information to give to potential witnesses that know them. You know what I mean?

[Kara Klenk]

Just to make it the correct context.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

I mean, I feel like that is we were Talking about the 80s where it's like the way police worked back then was so internal and kind of like secretive and it felt like individual theories would just get thrown up and we're gonna do it this way and do it that way. Where there was no kind of like, here's the. Based on these personalities, the best way to kind of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is how to handle it.

[Kara Klenk]

Seed that information. Here's the best way to be most effective. It's just like, it just seemed random all the time back then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or like not based on any evidence whatsoever, just based on hunches instead of like data. So, yeah, he never gives up any information. And Alan winds up marrying Margaret, the woman he was having an affair with. And the two of them and the two children move out of town to the north of England. They all move away as a family. So that's the state of affairs from 1983 on, every two years, the case had come up for review. Witnesses had been reinterviewed, the evidence is looked over again. Detective Prickett says that the case is a thorn in his side and he is desperate to see it solved. And then finally, in 2018, Detective Prickett is officially retired and a new set of eyes get on this case. That's when Detective Supped Foster. His name is Supped.

[Kara Klenk]

Spell it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

S U p T. Okay. I mean, it's kind of a badass name, right?

[Kara Klenk]

I don't mind it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's like, where'd you get that? But it's okay.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, you don't have to tell us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you don't.

[Kara Klenk]

Because you're so private and manly and British and reserved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He takes over as the head of the Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire Cold Case Review Team. And one of his first jobs is like just reviewing this big 40 year old unsolved case of the murder of Carol Morgan. So police circle back to all the witnesses, they go back and check all these notes and they come across now a 60 year old woman named Jane Bunting. So Jane was only 17 years old at the time of the murder and she was friendly with Margaret, who was the woman that Allen was having an affair with and eventually married. It seems like maybe Margaret was a mentor, kind of to. And when they interview her, Jane says, quote, I've been waiting for you to come see me for 40 years.

[Kara Klenk]

Oh, wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And she has a shocking revelation. Jane tells police that one night in the months leading up to Carol's murder, she had run into Alan at a local watering hole called the Dolphin Pub. She says that evening, Allen asked her if her ex boyfriend might know anyone who he could hire to murder his wife. And she was horrified by that. And then you're like, why didn't she go to the police? You know? But her reasoning for never going forward are complicated and they're understandable from the point of view of a 17 year old in a way because she says that over the decades, she kind of figured that the police, if they truly suspected Allen, he would have been arrested already. So she didn't think he was a suspect and never. They didn't make it seem like he was a suspect because they didn't give any information out about the financial misdeeds. So that's like, if she had known that, maybe she would have put it together and come forward.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, she was just assuming that everyone, everything was kind of proceeding as normal. Except for that, I think after like five years, I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, the other reason is that she stayed silent out of a feeling of misplaced loyalty to Margaret, which I think is like, I love the cases where it's like, it's a cold case for so long and people's loyalties change and that's how a lot of those things get solved. People come forward, which I think is great. It also just speaks to like, I know that it's important to keep evidence secret and, you know, so only the killer knows. But eventually, if it's cold and nothing's happening, you gotta give out more information. Maybe someone will have, you know, something to say. After Jane's revelation and with all the other evidence they had gathered against Allen. In 2019, both Allen and Margaret are charged with conspiring to murder Carol. Margaret is found not guilty. But In June of 2024, at the age of 74, Alan is convicted and sentenced to life in prison.

[Kara Klenk]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Finally, Allen's conviction didn't bring the closure everyone had hoped for. Carol's family was torn apart. This is so awful. After their mother's death and moving away with their stepparents, Carol's kids each write letters to Carol's parents saying they have new lives and that they don't want to be in contact anymore. And of course, Carol's parents are devastated. They lost their Daughter and now their grandchildren. And they will always believe that the kids didn't write the letters of their own violation.

[Kara Klenk]

They would never do. It's a grandparent. Unless they were the worst grandparents in the world, which you know they weren't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Kara Klenk]

Like that. No, that's the. That's the psycho husband.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It's like an evil manipulation completely. It's so manipulative to have them do that.

[Kara Klenk]

You would actually want nothing more than to see your grandmother if your mother was dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. They're the connection you have.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Carol's kids, now adults in their 50s, still struggled with the truth about their stepfather. Dean says that after he hears about the charges, he called Allen, who assured him it's all a big misunderstanding. Dean kind of pushes back. And then Dean says, quote, the argument became heated and he put the phone down on me, meaning he hung up on him while he was trying to get to the bottom of his mother's murder. And then he says, we have not spoken since. End quote. In 2024, at her stepfather's sentencing, Jane, who was 12 at the time of her mother's murder, gave a heart wrenching victim impact statement in court saying, quote, the man I spent my entire life calling dad lied to me for my entire life. It has been an incredibly distressing and confusing period of my life that has made me doubt everything I knew about my mother and my stepparents, end quote. While Alan is now in prison, there are still, of course, unanswered questions. He's never revealed any information that could lead to the identification and arrest of the man that he hired to murder his wife. And that person's identity remains a mystery, although, of course, police are still looking into it. The town of Leighton Buzzard still remembers the murder of Carol Morgan. It was a small town, and the murder was something that haunted the community for the 40 years it went unsolved.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, I bet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The case might have been closed, but the mystery surrounding it remains, as does the pain it caused. Leighton Buzzard, for all its charm, will never forget what happened that night. And that is the story of the murder of Carol Morgan.

[Kara Klenk]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

40. I feel like it could have been solved.

[Kara Klenk]

It could have been solved back then. Tough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

Well, and also just. I. I don't know, maybe it just. Look, it's 25. It's. It's 2025. And we've been doing this for nine years, so it's real obvious to us. And it's like you read these and hear these stories over and over where it's like, yeah, that when it's not direct, then the indirect version goes A, B, C, D, or maybe E, sometimes F. But it's like, it's very repetitive, these stories and these. What sociopaths do when they need to get their money, get their way, get rid of someone in their way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then what happens when a small town, you know, police for. Investigated a lot of murders, try to do that also?

[Kara Klenk]

It's a thing they say a lot, which is like, we just don't have the evidence. So it's obvious. We think it's this person. It's obvious, whatever. But if there's no one there to even give just, you know, eyewitness testimony, there's just nothing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, it's all circumstantial.

[Kara Klenk]

Well, I'm glad it was finally solved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But let's get more of those in 2025.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, for real. All right, well, my story's different, good as they usually are. And just a quick trigger warning about French pronunciation in this one. Cause, man, man, it's tough, but I'll do my best. Mrs. McCurry, my freshman and sophomore French teacher. Props to you. This is gonna be bad, so I'm gonna really lay it on thick. Just first, do it, please. So this story starts around 10:45 in the morning on May 26, 1986. So we're also in the 80s again, and we're in the Montparnasse neighborhood of Paris, France. So if you've ever been to the Catacombs or down Rue de Guerre, which is very lively Market street, you have been to this part of Paris. There's also a famous prison there called La Sante, and it's housed many notorious criminals over the years, including Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega. But on this spring day in 1986, something very unusual is happening at La Sante. A rumbling sound can be heard overhead that grows louder by the second. It's a helicopter and it's headed toward the roof of the prison. And then a man appears on that roof and it's clear that he does not belong there because he's a 34 year old inmate serving 18 years for an armed robbery and attempted murder. But what he is already known is actually his three previous successful prison breaks. Today, he's hoping that this attempt to bust out will be his hopefully fourth and final time. This is the story of Michel Vajour. All right, so the main sources in the story Today are a 2009 documentary called My Greatest Escape, Interviews with Michel that aired on Europe 1 radio and archival Editions of the New York Times and the Chicago Tribune and the rest of the sources are in our short so truly. The story starts in 1951, when Michel Vajour is born in a small town in northern France that I don't have to pronounce because Maren mercifully left the town name out. Good. So, sadly, Michael's father is an abusive alcoholic. So when he's only 4 or 5 years old, his mother decides to give custody of him to his aunt. Germain Jermaine is a wonderful caregiver. She loves Michelle. She cares about his emotional needs. At one point, she even gets Michelle a dog that he names Rita. The best dog name for a girl.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's good.

[Kara Klenk]

It's real good. And Rita becomes Michelle's most beloved companion. But of course, this separation from his actual original family is very difficult for Michelle. Causes a lot of emotional pain. But it gets worse, because just a few years after Michelle settles in with his aunt, she passes away from cancer and he gets sent back to his parents home. A toxic environment where he's deprived of the love and warmth of his aunt. And then one day, Michelle goes to school, and when he gets home, he finds out that his parents gave Rita away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Horrible.

[Kara Klenk]

So he has a tough childhood. The people who knew Michelle as a boy remember him as a gentle child who loved nature and animals. Over the years, he keeps several pet birds, including a falcon, a magpie, and a crowd who he claims to have raised himself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Living my fucking dream life, right?

[Kara Klenk]

So as Michelle grows older, he starts getting in trouble with the law. Never hurts anybody. It mostly seems to be rooted in boredom. And he will later say, quote, After 10pm There was nothing to do. We were 17. We wanted some action. We'd steal a car and go looking for cops. In town for a bit of fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Looking for cops.

[Kara Klenk]

That's what I was gonna say. There's your difference right there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, like I get the stealing cars and having some, but like, looking for trouble.

[Kara Klenk]

No, dude, it's like you steal a car and your heart is racing and you're driving around town and you're just waiting to ditch the car.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Kara Klenk]

You're not looking for cops.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I thought they were like, looking for cops.

[Kara Klenk]

No, no, they were. I'm saying a normal person would be avoiding cops at all costs and dying. Michel was absolutely looking for cops.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Looking for trouble. Got it.

[Kara Klenk]

So that might be a little bit of his, you know, issues with authority and parental figures and adrenaline. And adrenaline. And where is rit to find Rita? Michelle insists he was Only ever borrowing those cars. He'd always return them. But then one night when he was 19, he, quote, unquote, forgets to give one of those cars back. And when the police show up at his house that he shares with his girlfriend and their baby daughter, he is arrested. So for a first time, nonviolent offender, Michelle is handed a very heavy sentence. 30 months in prison and a five year ban on returning to his home region, which is where he's lived his entire life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus, that is heavy.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you have a child there.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes, his girlfriend and baby live there. And they're like, you're excommunicated out of this village, essentially.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's like fucking the baby mama over, too, because that's 30 months of not having that second income.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes, that's right. Well, the second income of stealing cars and leaving them on the street, he must have worked at the subway or something. But just for context, the typical sentence for car theft at that time was a couple months. So this was overkill for in a lot of ways. And it could be because that sometimes happens in small towns where it's like, we're gonna teach you a lesson, or we don't like your kind. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or you've been chasing the cops down and they're pissed off about it.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah. Have you been pissing the cops off? Now they gotcha. So of course Michelle's angry about this disproportionately harsh sentence. But then also, while he's incarcerated, no one from his family visits him, and then his girlfriend leaves him for a cop. Yes. So he becomes very angry and disillusioned with the criminal justice system and authority figures and life in general. He serves his time. He's released when he's 21, and now Michelle is determined to start fresh. So he gets a job, he starts saving his money, and it's all with the hope that he can actually win his ex girlfriend back and reconnect with his young daughter. But then one day, despite being banned from that region of France under the terms of his release, Michel travels home to visit his ex and their child. On the way, his new car breaks down. And the first vehicle that passes him is a police car because Michelle knows that he's breaking the law just by being in the area. And he doesn't have a driver's license, so a lot of problems. He panics and bolts. The police catch him, and he's sent back to prison. Six months after he was released.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Damn.

[Kara Klenk]

So this second stint behind bars is more than Michelle can handle. Even though he's likely only facing a short sentence. He immediately starts plotting his escape. So in quick succession, he manages two prison breaks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Kara Klenk]

The first one, he figures out how to just basically scale the prison wall, and he simply jumps to freedom. Parkour, man. He is the OG Parkour hero.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How do you say parkour in French?

[Kara Klenk]

It's parkour. In the other escape, he convinces another prisoner who works outside of the prison loading trucks to switch places with him for a day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Kara Klenk]

And it's a really smart move on his part because working outside means fewer layers of security to deal with. So during this shift, he seizes the moment and he just sprints off facility ground. Both times, Michelle manages to stay free for several days before being caught and returned to prison. And then, of course, placed in higher security wing, where he spends a lot of time in solitary confinement. Horrifying. Yeah, like. And all of this because he stole a car. Yeah, it's just so. So not disproportionate. So disproportionate. And also then. So it's just to break you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's inhumane.

[Kara Klenk]

Which. Which is what all prison is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's almost like they say, the crime doesn't fit the punishment.

[Kara Klenk]

The punishment doesn't fit the crime.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what I meant.

[Kara Klenk]

Well, I guess it means yours was right too, actually.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I guess they both work.

[Kara Klenk]

You know what? Let's agree to agree. So even though he is in solitary confinement, he is not broken. He actually. He's busted out twice. He actually feels like he can do anything. So he just planning escape number three. He actually would later say, quote to me, you had to escape. That's what prison was made for. I remember saying to someone once that I wouldn't be surprised to find it in a dictionary quote, prison, a place to escape from.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Kara Klenk]

That's how I function.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a fun way to look at life, you know, it really is.

[Kara Klenk]

And I do think that then going forward, because that was his approach, you could kind of tell in the way that he would plan these breaks. So the next example is great. He gets a new cellmate named Gilles. I will definitely mispronounce that. Going forward, the two cellmates become very close. Michel will later describe Gilles as, quote, the brother I never had. And that he was the first person that really helped Michel truly understand what family means, which is lovely and, like, very sad and kind of underlines that how hard and fucked up his family life was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Kara Klenk]

No excuse.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Kara Klenk]

But still, Gilles is a more seasoned criminal than Michel, with experience in armed robberies and more complex heists. And so that makes him the ideal partner when it comes to Michel plotting his next escape. So Gilles himself is not interested in breaking out of prison because his sentence is almost up. But he is willing to help Michelle with his plan, despite it sounding ridiculous to him. So Michelle's goal is to make duplicates of the prison guard's keys. And he plans on doing that with the red wax coating that you find on the little rounds of baby bell cheese. Okay, so they get baby bell in this prison?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I guess so.

[Kara Klenk]

And he's like, well, if I get enough of that, I can just put it in there and basically harden it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kind of.

[Kara Klenk]

No, just like in passing, press a key into that wax.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Kara Klenk]

So here's the quote from Michelle. I walked around for months with a piece of cheese in my hand. So Maren makes this point in our notes. She says, I don't know if he pressed the key into the red wax or the cheese.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Kara Klenk]

Could be either one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Kara Klenk]

To me, wax makes more sense.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, the wax would make more sense.

[Kara Klenk]

Cause you gotta eat that cheese.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

Back to the quote. My aim was to get an imprint of the cell key and the key to the exercise yard. The guards carried a bunch of keys in their hands. You memorized the shape of the you spotted in his bunch of keys and you bump into him a bit like a pickpocket.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Kara Klenk]

So he. Michelle claims one day that he successfully does it that way and gets impressions of the keys he needs. And then takes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's crazy.

[Kara Klenk]

It's insane. And then takes the key shaped baby bell wax back to his cell. And he and Gilles use that as their blueprint to file down a piece of scrap metal into the shell of some keys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it.

[Kara Klenk]

Michelle says it takes them several weeks to complete this, but it works. He winds up with duplicate keys that miraculously function.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Kara Klenk]

I know. So for a third time, Michelle manages to escape from prison. Once again, his freedom is short lived. He's captured and returned. This time to an even more secure cell. So Now Michelle's facing 25 years in prison, even though he has never committed a violent offense. Yeah, he's 24 years old at this point.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he could be an engineer. Like that Keith thing is brilliant.

[Kara Klenk]

He could be a prop maker.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Make him a spy. I bet he'd be a great spy.

[Kara Klenk]

Make him. Let him get into theater. I'm getting more of an artsy vibe from him. Okay. He's being held in a facility that truly does seem inescapable. He spends A lot of time in solitary confinement in a cell that's about 20 stories off the ground. So that wall jumping plan is out. There are three rows of bars on the windows and an armored fence surrounding the grounds. Michelle's mental health definitely suffers in this environment. His cell is cold and sterile and lonely. He has no personal items. Everything's concrete. The lights are kept on 24. 7.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh, that's bad.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, really bad. He doesn't sleep much. Michelle says the only movement he ever sees day in, day out is when his food gets slid into the cell.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's no way to live.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah. He says, quote, you're about as alive as a fly in a jar, except the fly has proportionately more space.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck.

[Kara Klenk]

So Michelle's life is bleak. And just when he starts to consider actually maybe ending it, a new thought takes over the one that's always kept him going. That's the idea of escaping once again. Plotting his next prison break becomes his singular source of hope and joy. So basically, he's like, well, I'm here anyway. I might as well try to do the impossible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Kara Klenk]

So he starts looking for any kind of opportunity to see where a silver lining might be in terms of escaping.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, it's almost like your sanity depends on you plotting something. It's like whether or not it could happen or would happen or is absolutely possible at all. You're gonna go nuts if you don't have, like, aren't able to put your brain in a certain direction and train it on something like that.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes. Which is true for everybody. No matter how big or small your cell is. It's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You gotta have hopes and dreams.

[Kara Klenk]

You gotta fucking. And it doesn't matter if they're dumb. Who cares? It doesn't matter if it's crazy or cringe or anything, because you're gonna get somewhere with them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And maybe not to the place that you're, like, fucking dreaming of, but it's gonna be a couple steps ahead at least.

[Kara Klenk]

You might get yourself a true crime podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dream big, everyone.

[Kara Klenk]

Dream big. Big. It's pretty goddamn great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's pretty fucking awesome.

[Kara Klenk]

We own this table.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We own this table.

[Kara Klenk]

If we wanted to, we could take these microphones home tonight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Kara Klenk]

I mean, kind of fuck people over. But Liana's like, what? What? No. Okay. So in looking for that opportunity, so he has to go to the courthouse every once in a while for, like, scheduled court dates or legal appointments or whatever. So on one of those trips, finds that opportunity when he notices, he starts noticing basically everything about what the guards are doing. So he's just like, I'm gonna track the guards. I'm gonna watch what they do. I'm gonna memorize it and study it and think about it. And then every time, compare it to the last time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's a theater spy.

[Kara Klenk]

That's what he is, the leading man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The leading man.

[Kara Klenk]

So he notices where they typically stand, how they search him, which rooms they take him through. All of these details get like memorized. And then he pieces together this plan. First of all, he realizes he's going to need a gun. So he starts to carve one out of a bar of soap. Cause that's what you have to do in jail. He has never owned a gun before, but he is able to carve a realistic looking one out of soap. Then he paints it black with shoe polish. And then he adds some small. We're getting back into the arts now. He adds some small metallic details like a round battery to mimic a muzzle and a nail clipper that he kind of affixes to it. So when it's clicked, it sounds like a gun caulking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on.

[Kara Klenk]

This guy is good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This guy wasted talent.

[Kara Klenk]

Truly. So he realizes the guards always let him leave his underwear on when they strip search him before his court appointments.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay?

[Kara Klenk]

So when he's finished with his soap gun, he goes ahead and sews a hidden pocket into his underwear, which he refers to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How is that not caught on underwear with pockets? Come on.

[Kara Klenk]

Secret pockets.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Secret underwear pockets, right?

[Kara Klenk]

It seemed like you had one when you pulled that Kleenex out earlier. Cause that came out of nowhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna fucking trademark that immediately.

[Kara Klenk]

It's your thing. But you have to call them like the Michelle line or something so that he gets some credit. So he refers to the secret pocket as the quote, false bottom. Cause he's French. And then he stashes the soap pistol there before he's escorted off site.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay?

[Kara Klenk]

So then once he's at the courthouse, the guards tell him to strip down to his underwear. He then asks to use the bathroom. Then in the bathroom, he retrieves the soap gun from the secret underpants pocket. And then he walks back out of the restroom brandishing the weapon. The five or so people in the room think he has a real gun. He takes a hostage. He orders the guards in the room to drop their weapons. They do it. That's how realistic soap gun is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Soap gun.

[Kara Klenk]

Then he manages to escape the building and the officers chase after him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit.

[Kara Klenk]

So he gets away?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. That's insane.

[Kara Klenk]

I cannot believe he actually pulls this off mostly because he didn't think the gun was convincing at all. He would later say, quote, it wasn't that well made because when I left the law courts, it was coming apart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sure it was just like a matter of surprise. If they had. If it had been any longer, they would have had time to, like, you.

[Kara Klenk]

Know, to be like, is that a nail clipper?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's almost like the adrenaline made them not think it through. And by that, then he could have picked up one of the guns that they had dropped and have a real gun completely.

[Kara Klenk]

It's all about his, may we say, acting on his side of, like, being convincing. But you spot a gun in someone's hand and they're yelling all the right stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

You're not going in and being like, is it, though? You're like, yeah, it is. He got a gun. And also. Yeah, do the safest thing. If someone is brandishing a soap gun, don't get interested.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah. So this time, Michel managed to stay on the run much longer. He actually ends up reconnecting with Gilles, who has been released from prison.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love it.

[Kara Klenk]

They start doing jobs together. So he escapes from prison, hooks up with his brother from another mother.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a lovely story.

[Kara Klenk]

And then immediately just starts criming, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What else are you gonna do?

[Kara Klenk]

Well, true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're not gonna fucking flip Le Big Macs.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, you can't. You can't. They're Royale with Cheese.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're Royale. Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

And he actually. He's now involved in more organized robberies and using real guns to facilitate them, which he didn't do before. He also falls in love with Gilles sister. Nadine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cute.

[Kara Klenk]

Nadine. Cute, the French name in the world. Nadine. Before long, Nadine is pregnant. The two get married. He's out long enough that, like, he starts a life again. Nadine and Michel spend about two years together before Michel is caught again, this time following a robbery where a cop actually gets shot. So Michel's sent back to prison. This time he is held at Le Sante in Paris, which is where our story starts. Picks back up from the beginning. The second his ass hits Lasante, he starts planning his escape again. Then he finds out that Gilles has been killed during a shootout following a botched armed robbery.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Kara Klenk]

So, of course, this has a huge impact on both Michelle and Nadine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

So now they together kind of are like, we have to do whatever it takes to be together again. So they put together a wild plan. Michelle is going to break out of prison. And Nadine is going to pick him up in the helicopter that she will pilot. Okay, so that's what we were hearing overhead. Nadine coming in for her man in the helicopter. That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Kara Klenk]

That's love. Some people won't even pick you up from the airport. This woman, let alone I, will learn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How to fly a helicopter by the fucking airport.

[Kara Klenk]

Sons of bitches. Which is. I mean, LAX is a disaster, but still.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I'd rather learn how to drive a helicopter than go to lax. Oh, for sure.

[Kara Klenk]

Definitely sexier.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

So for five or six months, Nadine takes flying lessons every weekend under a fake name. Oh, my God. She has to pay about 2,200 francs an hour to rent this helicopter for these lessons, which is in today's US dollars. Roughly how much an hour, do you think? 2,900 an hour. Okay, still. 900 an hour.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a lot of money.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, she always pays in cash.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Smart.

[Kara Klenk]

That's love. Some people won't even pay for your Uber from the airport. So. But on the morning of May 26, 1986, Michelle wakes up. He waits for that helicopter sound.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he knows it's coming.

[Kara Klenk]

He knows it's coming. He knows. He's just. I'm sure they're writing each other love letters in code of like, that's a spy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a spy thing.

[Kara Klenk]

Spy thing. He's like, I went. She's like, I went and saw the birds this afternoon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The birds are circling.

[Kara Klenk]

They cost me 900 fucking dollars. Your precious birds. Okay, so Nadine gets close to Lasante. Finally, the helicopter is just hovering over the prison yard. Michelle is down in the prison yard. Nadine tosses a bag out of the helicopter. Michelle sprints, picks it up, pulls out a gun. Also fake, but more convincing than the soap gun. And that's key, because if the couple gets caught, they don't want Nadine's charges to be any worse than they need to be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, Got it.

[Kara Klenk]

So they wanted this to be a fake gun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

So Michelle turns around and holds the gun on the rest of the prison yard and threatens everyone there. Everybody freezes. Then Michelle runs up to the prison's room and. Cause remember, 20 stories up and the helicopter is hovering now over the roof. And it's tilted down just enough. So Nadine got this good at helicopter lessons.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Damn, girl.

[Kara Klenk]

Where it's tilted down so that he can grab onto the bottom of the helicopter and hoist himself inside.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is a fucking action movie.

[Kara Klenk]

It is the real deal. This whole scene just Takes a couple minutes. So it's that fast. Then Nadine, in the pilot's seat, flies the helicopter away. They land at a nearby school's athletic field. Nice. Right over to the high school.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then they have the best sex anyone has ever had in the history of sex.

[Kara Klenk]

Can you imagine where it's like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, he has to be in awe of her?

[Kara Klenk]

He fucking better be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

What more do you want from a woman?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. She's like, that's the sexiest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Kara Klenk]

It's pretty fucking cool. Yeah. He's like, well, you could stand to lose £15. I'm just saying. So, yeah, if they did have helicopter sex, they did it before they landed. Cause there's a getaway car waiting for them on this athletic field. An accomplice is the driver. With that, Michel has completed his most cinematic jailbreak. So the couple plans on escaping France with their child to start over somewhere new. They're thinking maybe South America. But they need more cash. So Michelle and Nadine decide to lay low, or as low as possible, while Michelle carries out a couple more armed robberies. Which is not laying low and never works.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Kara Klenk]

Why don't they know?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have they seen a movie?

[Kara Klenk]

I mean, have they read a true crime story? So during one of these armed robberies, the police show up. The situation devolves into a shoot. Michelle is shot in the head.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Kara Klenk]

He survives.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Kara Klenk]

Because he's a survivor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Kara Klenk]

He's in a coma for several weeks. When he wakes up from that coma, he's back in prison.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. I mean, yeah, I figured.

[Kara Klenk]

But no, you gotta figure. But still. Coma, nightmare. Over time, Michelle makes a complete recovery. What the fuck?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He got shot in the head, bro. This guy is.

[Kara Klenk]

He's made of Kevlar.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

He doesn't give a shit. He. He's gonna fight till the end.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

Which I love.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's sexy.

[Kara Klenk]

I love it. His relationship with Nadine does not last, unfortunately.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on. Never.

[Kara Klenk]

They never do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have two people been more perfect for each other?

[Kara Klenk]

And also in every fight, I bet it was because of this. In every fight, she's like, oh, really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

Are you gonna take helicopter lessons? Like, she has the one up on him permanently.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She does.

[Kara Klenk]

Men don't like them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Kara Klenk]

So from the English language sources that Maren could find, it's unclear why they broke up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Kara Klenk]

But it's not unclear to me. It's not unclear to anybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

What we do know is that Nadine does end up having to serve time for helping Michelle Escape. She may have grown tired of that criminal lifestyle. I would say she laid it all on the line at this point. They have two children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Kara Klenk]

So not ideal for the heisty, jailbreaky lifestyle they are leading. So they part ways in 1990. After a little time passes, Michelle starts exchanging letters with a young law student named Jamilla, who hears about him on the news and becomes interested in his story. Okay, so eventually, Jamilla will also try to break Michelle out of prison.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What? What is it with this dude?

[Kara Klenk]

Right? That's what I wrote. Look. How good is that? D? Is it helicopter lessons level D? It's good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good.

[Kara Klenk]

What are we talking about?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's surreal. The real deal.

[Kara Klenk]

The real deal. Those Frenchmen. Jamila claims this is entirely her decision, which, sure, in some ways it is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

People manipulate you into making your own decision really easily sometimes.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah. Specifically, Jamila tries to replicate Nadine's helicopter escape. So the ex is over there going, yeah, I could do that. What choice do you have? Michelle, as you might expect, is fully in on this plan. Because it's his plan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It didn't work the first time.

[Kara Klenk]

It didn't, honey. And also. But the idea that she's like, after the fact, like, no, no, no, no. That was my thing where it's like, so without speaking to this person, you're like, I would like to do this exact same thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Kara Klenk]

Look, this is just conjecture. We don't know these people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We don't.

[Kara Klenk]

But it doesn't matter anyway because they are busted before they ever get the chance to carry out this. The new helicopter escape.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. They're a little onto it by now, probably.

[Kara Klenk]

I think they're looking. They're probably gonna be watching those letters, looking for code. Jamillah actually winds up getting seven years in prison.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Kara Klenk]

Serving five for being a part of all of that planning.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a lot.

[Kara Klenk]

I know. It's kind of crazy. But Michelle and Jamila still get married while Michelle is incarcerated. And then in 2003, Michelle gets paroled after making a very convincing case that he has genuinely rehabilitated him and is no longer interested in a criminal lifestyle. And he attributes that change to Jamilah's love and to his decision to adopt her religion of Islam. So he is finally released from prison after serving 27 years. Seventeen of those years having been spent in solitary confinement.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That is so long.

[Kara Klenk]

It's crazy. And they say that that informed that when he was like, hey, look, you know, after that last plan and, you know, the 90s, he's like, look, I Swear I'm not doing it anymore. Like so. Michelle is now in his 70s and he's been true to his word. He's a law abiding citizen. He is still happily married to Jamilla. In fact, they've both written their own autobiographies in French.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Huh.

[Kara Klenk]

Nadine, who seems to have returned to living a private life, also has written an autobiography.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, everyone make that money. Yeah, make that autobiography money.

[Kara Klenk]

Tell your helicopter lesson story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell your story before someone fucking tells it for you.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah, he might as well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It's called Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered.

[Kara Klenk]

It's available in audiobook and hard copy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Kara Klenk]

The title of Michelle's book translates to Love Saved Me From Sinking. And the love, of course, is Jamilla.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Kara Klenk]

But then there's a little helicopter on the COVID Today, Michelle is a very media friendly guy. He's given countless interviews to French reporters and documentarians. And in one interview, he's asked by a producer what he'd say to a young man who wishes to follow in his footsteps. Michelle responds like this. Oh, God, who am I to lecture him? I think I'd say, go on, jerk. Go on, jerk, if you have the balls, nice. But you have no idea what a high price you'll pay. And so if you lose your balls, you'll end up rotting in your own bitterness. So go right ahead, end quote. And that is the story of the prison escapes of French criminal Michel Vajour. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's the Frenchest quote I've ever fucking heard in my life.

[Kara Klenk]

And that is our theme for 2025. Go ahead, jerk, if you have the balls. But if you don't, zip it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Wow.

[Kara Klenk]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was something else. That was fun.

[Kara Klenk]

Flirty, French, French, all the things the three Fs we're looking for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right. Wow. Great job.

[Kara Klenk]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're back, baby.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah. 2025.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right. Hey, so I don't remember how we're ending this now, do you?

[Kara Klenk]

Well, we can just end it like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We could.

[Kara Klenk]

Do you want to do one of these?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's do one. So we asked you guys.

[Kara Klenk]

So you do remember your last week?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, no. It says it at the top of this page. Your last week are like five weeks ago. We asked you instead of what are you even doing right now? We asked you what you're excited for and what you wanna manifest in 2025.

[Kara Klenk]

Did we use the word manifest?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Probably. Sounds like us. So let's just each do one. You guys sent us a bunch and we fucking love that. Thank you so much. You can keep sending them. Cause maybe we'll keep doing these.

[Kara Klenk]

Here, I got one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Kara Klenk]

This is from Sid Scott photo from Instagram. And Sid Scott photo says, what am I even doing in 2025? Proudly stepping into the role of the first woman president for the University Photographers association of America. Established in 1961, the UPAA is committed to photographic excellence through continuing education of higher ed photographers. That's cool. And then it says, despite the name, our membership spans the globe. And this awesome organization has built a culture of support and skill sharing like no other group I've been a part of. I'm excited to continue to foster equity, professionalism, and camaraderie in my new lead hership role. And it's her is all. Cat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I get it. Did you get it? Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

Remember when the idea of taking on seem scary, look closer. You're likely being presented with an opportunity for personal growth. Sydney Scott, President, upaa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it. And I'm going to tell my sister to join. She's a photographer. Professional photographer.

[Kara Klenk]

Nice. Tell her to pretend she's in college and then she can go to. I think it is. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, she went to college, so maybe, maybe.

[Kara Klenk]

Maybe you can be a.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She can be a.

[Kara Klenk]

She could be a. What do you call.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mentor. Yeah, Mentor.

[Kara Klenk]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Mine is from our email and the title is 2025. She's so cute. Says, hello. Today's my birthday and I just listened to you ask what I'm excited for in 2025. According to the ever decreasing life expectancy in women, I am halfway through this life.

[Kara Klenk]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I'm oddly pumped. Usually sad about my age. It hit me today, all the years I've lived, I get to live that same amount. And then it says, plus some fingers crossed emoji. It's so true. I love it.

[Kara Klenk]

Sorry, how old is this person?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know, but I get it. Because, like, I'm 44. And it's like, if I live to be like 90, I still have another full lifetime to live.

[Kara Klenk]

If you're lucky.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I am lucky. Turns out.

[Kara Klenk]

And I am Gabyan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then it says, with people I am choosing in a place I love, with a clear mind and heart. That's the best part. You don't have to go through childhood again.

[Kara Klenk]

Yes, that's right. You get to be informed this time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. So it says, I recently joined a group of 200 plus black American women. We get together and chat and share resources, suggest doctors and safe practices. We are calling ourselves the 92%. And the support is out of this world.

[Kara Klenk]

Nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a beautiful place to be and a loud reminder that we haven't met everyone we will love.

[Kara Klenk]

Nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How lucky are we to be growing old? Thank you for helping us learn and grow. Hello, 2025. May she do us right. Amen. Much love and strength. Kiana.

[Kara Klenk]

Kiana. That is what we are looking for. That's the energy we're looking for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was the energy we were looking for.

[Kara Klenk]

Was the energy we're looking for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was it. What about you? What are you manifesting in 2025? Everyone send us fucking a message, please.

[Kara Klenk]

Let's. Like, I think I can't remember who I was saying this to, but my manifestation is. I think it was Scotty Landis on New Year's. It was just kind of like, I don't know, maybe I'll get extensions and, like, become a party girl. Like, I just want to keep it light. Yeah, it would be fun to just have more fun and, like, be intentional about fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Kara Klenk]

Especially if things are going to get hard. It's like. And we all feel we've done enough fear. We've done enough, like, we've done enough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Girl bossing and bad bitching and hustling and scaredy cat stuff, right?

[Kara Klenk]

Yes. Now it's just fun times. Let's do some fun times and die mad haters. Stay salty. No, you have to do it for real. Oh, no, that's. Thanks, everybody. This is our real New Year's. It's real New Year's for us now. So happy New Year. Thanks for listening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Kara Klenk]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[Kara Klenk]

Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Kara Klenk]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our Researchers are Maren McLachen and Ali Elkin.

[Kara Klenk]

Email your hometown to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at. My favorite murder. Goodbye.