468 - Just Start Screaming

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark Episode: 468 - Just Start Screaming
Release Date: February 20, 2025
Network: Exactly Right Media
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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Introduction and Light Banter [00:17 - 01:20]

The episode kicks off with Karen and Georgia engaging in their usual playful exchange, correcting each other's names and reminiscing about childhood shows like Clarissa Explains It All. Their light-hearted banter sets a relaxed tone before delving into the main stories.

Creepy Encounter: Cremains on Karen’s Lawn [01:20 - 02:48]

Karen shares a chilling experience following a neighborhood fire. While walking her dog, Cookie, she discovers what appears to be cremains on her lawn. Upon closer inspection, Karen realizes it's animal remains marked with a sticker from a local aftercare service.

Karen Kilgariff [02:00]: "It was clearly cremains of something. There's a sticker on it, and there's teeth marks in it."

The duo speculates that coyotes may have carried the remains to her yard during the chaos of the fires, interpreting the find as an ominous sign amid the unsettling aftermath.

Georgia’s Dog Encounter with Coyotes [02:48 - 05:24]

Georgia recounts a distressing incident where her dog, Blossom, nearly falls victim to coyotes. Blossom, a resilient terrier, has previously survived a killer bee sting but now faces new dangers in the wild.

Georgia Hardstark [04:14]: "My dog Blossom, at five in the morning, needed to go out because she could hear the coyotes. And then she got bit."

Karen commends Blossom's bravery and resilience, drawing parallels to their own survival instincts in unsettling situations.

Dramatization Review: Apple Cider Vinegar Scandal [05:24 - 08:18]

The conversation shifts to entertainment as Karen and Georgia discuss a new Netflix dramatization titled Apple Cider Vinegar. The story revolves around a woman who falsely claims to have cancer to build a career by promoting wellness through dubious nutritional advice. The hosts express intrigue and empathy towards the complex motivations behind such scams.

Georgia Hardstark [07:02]: "I have to stop this one immediately and run over there. Cause these stories of people like that are so I could. All day long. I want to hear them."

Karen praises the show for its ability to humanize even the most questionable characters, emphasizing the importance of understanding initial motivations before delving into their darker actions.

Listener Interaction: Pilots’ Patience and Women in Aviation [08:18 - 13:44]

Karen introduces listener emails, starting with a letter titled “I Promise Pilots Are Friendlier Than You Think”. The letter reassures that pilots are more patient than they appear, addressing Karen’s previous comment about pilots’ lack of patience.

Georgia Hardstark [09:00]: "I'm a Karen. And my dad, who was a pilot for 30 years, didn't put up with my bullshit either."

The hosts celebrate the low percentage of female pilots, encouraging young women in aviation and STEM fields, and praise the professionalism of the pilots who communicate their experiences.

Karen Kilgariff [09:42]: "Welcome reprieve when I need to switch off learning mode."

Promotion: Exactly Right Media and Merchandise [12:54 - 14:43]

Karen and Georgia take a brief hiatus to promote the Exactly Right podcast network, highlighting other shows like Bananas, This Podcast Will Kill You, and I Said No Gifts. They also showcase My Favorite Murder merchandise, including T-shirts and mugs inspired by previous episodes, encouraging listeners to support the show.

Main Story 1: The Murder of Fahim Saleh [14:43 - 31:08]

The hosts transition to a gripping recount of Fahim Saleh’s senseless murder in New York City during the summer of 2020. Fahim, a successful entrepreneur from a close-knit immigrant family, was brutally killed by his former assistant, Tyrese Haspil, who had embezzled significant funds from him.

Background: Fahim Saleh, at 33, was an innovative tech entrepreneur with successful startups in Nigeria and Bangladesh. His dedication to providing opportunities for others stemmed from his parents’ immigrant struggles and his own early success in tech ventures.

The Murder: On July 14, 2020, Fahim was found brutally dismembered in his Lower East Side apartment. Surveillance footage captured Tyrese, dressed in a black suit with a concealed face, entering Fahim’s building and carrying out the gruesome act using a taser and an electric saw.

Karen Kilgariff [21:56]: "That's one of those awful stories that happens all the time."

Investigation: Initial suspicions pointed towards a professional hitman, but clues like Tyrese using Fahim’s credit card to purchase cleaning supplies and monitoring footage led authorities to uncover Tyrese’s fraudulent activities. Tyrese had stolen $400,000 from Fahim and plotted his murder to escape legal repercussions.

Resolution: Tyrese was swiftly apprehended, confessing to the murder plot. In September 2024, he was sentenced to at least 40 years in prison. Fahim’s family remains devastated, with his sister Ruby Soleil expressing profound sorrow in a heartfelt tribute.

Ruby Soleil [written tribute]: "Sometimes it still doesn't feel real that Fahim is gone. My heart."

Main Story 2: Wendy’s Severed Fingertip Hoax of 2005 [31:08 - 63:53]

Karen and Georgia delve into one of the most bizarre and unsettling incidents: the Wendy’s severed fingertip hoax from 2005. This story captivated Northern California and remains a haunting reminder of corporate vulnerability and human deceit.

The Incident: On March 22, 2005, a woman named Anna Ayala was eating chili at a Wendy’s in San Jose when she discovered a severed fingertip in her meal. Her shocking revelation caused panic among diners and led to immediate health inspections and widespread media coverage.

Georgia Hardstark [33:34]: "This is the story of the Wendy's severed finger event of 2005."

Investigation: Dr. Marty Fenstersheib, a health officer, led the investigation, which revealed no wrongdoing from the restaurant staff or suppliers. The fingertip was confirmed to belong to a woman, and initial suspicions leaned towards sabotage or gruesome accidents. Wendy’s launched a massive reward for information, receiving hundreds of bizarre tips, including from individuals who had lost fingers in unrelated incidents.

Unraveling the Hoax: The investigation took a dark turn when Anna Ayala’s questionable history surfaced. It was revealed that Anna had previously engaged in fraudulent activities, including scams and false lawsuits. Further evidence linked Anna and her husband Jamie to the hoax, as a man missing a fingertip admitted to selling his severed finger to Jamie in exchange for settling debts.

Georgia Hardstark [56:35]: "He admits that he sold his severed finger to Anna's husband for a hundred dollars to settle a debt."

Arrests and Convictions: In April 2005, Anna and Jamie were arrested. Anna faced charges of felony grand theft and attempted grand theft for orchestrating the hoax, while Jamie was charged with unrelated child support issues. In September 2005, the couple pleaded guilty and were sentenced to prison terms, with Anna receiving nine years (reduced to four) and Jamie twelve years.

Aftermath: The scandal caused substantial financial losses for Wendy’s, particularly in Northern California, with some franchises losing up to 50% of their sales. Despite being vindicated, Wendy’s reputation took a significant hit, leading to drastic measures like the introduction of the free frosty weekend promotion to regain customer trust.

Georgia Hardstark [59:02]: "Lifetime chili. Fix it. That's how you reverse. It's all so upsetting."

Conclusion and Reflections [63:53 - 65:21]

Karen and Georgia reflect on the unsettling nature of these stories and the broader implications of such crimes on communities and businesses. They express empathy for those affected and ponder the ease with which individuals can orchestrate elaborate hoaxes, highlighting the importance of vigilance and skepticism.

Karen Kilgariff [63:19]: "Just fine. Just fine. Just fine."

The episode wraps up with the hosts encouraging listeners to share their own disturbing fast food experiences and restating their commitment to bringing forward compelling true crime stories.

Georgia Hardstark [64:46]: "If you can't handle a finger chili story, then get out of our kitchen where we're chopping off fingertips."

Production Credits [65:04 - End]

The hosts acknowledge their production team, including senior producer Alejandra Keck, managing producer Hannah Kyle Creighton, editor Aristotle, and researcher Maren McClashan and Ali Elkin. They invite listeners to email their hometown stories to [e-mail] and follow the show on Instagram and Facebook.

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Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff [02:00]: "It was clearly cremains of something. There's a sticker on it, and there's teeth marks in it."

• Georgia Hardstark [04:14]: "My dog Blossom, at five in the morning, needed to go out because she could hear the coyotes. And then she got bit."

• Ruby Soleil [written tribute]: "Sometimes it still doesn't feel real that Fahim is gone. My heart."

• Georgia Hardstark [56:35]: "He admits that he sold his severed finger to Anna's husband for a hundred dollars to settle a debt."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Unforeseen Tragedies: Fahim Saleh’s murder underscores the devastating impact of betrayal and financial greed within close-knit communities.

2. Corporate Vulnerability: The Wendy’s severed fingertip hoax reveals how easily corporate reputations can be manipulated, causing massive financial and emotional repercussions.

3. Human Psychology: Both stories highlight the complexities of human behavior, from Tyrese Haspil’s desperation-driven actions to Anna Ayala’s calculated deceit.

4. Community Impact: These incidents demonstrate the profound effects such crimes have on families, businesses, and the broader community, emphasizing the need for resilience and support systems.

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This detailed summary captures the essence of Episode 468, providing a comprehensive overview of the key discussions, insights, and narratives shared by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. The inclusion of notable quotes and timestamps enriches the summary, offering listeners a vivid glimpse into the episode's content.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hello and welcome to my favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Georgia Hartstart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Karen Kilgarraff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We say this every time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys should know this by now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Say it along with us, but put your name in. And both parts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aw. I love that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Becky Milligan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that is Clarissa Streeter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Knows it all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's not a name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Teaches you all. What's the Clarissa show from?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Clarissa Explains it all. Explains it all after that show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was too old.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you were. I was the right age for that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did she explain it all to you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She explained it all to me. She had great fashion sense, and she really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What would she explain on a weekly basis? Like, how it. Socially.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Or like, moms are. But in the end, they, like, have your back. Or, like, it's tough when bullies or whatever, you know, it was like, that kind of thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it wasn't, like, corny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like Daria kind of where I was just, like, cool. When I hear something weird and creepy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Uh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, maybe a little sad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

About me or you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Neither of us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, great. Just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That happened to me. Oh, it's weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. This counts as being about you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So when we got back from the fire after evacuating, we were home a couple days. Everything was weird, you know, like, the sky was weird and there was ash everywhere. It was just, like, a creepy time. The city was, like, empty. And so I'm walking Cookie on our lawn, our front lawn, and I look down a little further up. There's like, a plastic bag on the ground on our lawn. And I approach it, and it looks kind of like just a baggie. Like a Coke. Like a big bag, you know, like someone had dropped, like, a brick of Coke.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Half a brick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not a ton. And just so you have an idea. Sure. In today's money, a brick is not enough, right? Brick's too much. It was like, half a brick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Brick's too much. Half is not. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So I approach it, and I real. It's, like, messy. And I realize it's cremains. Like, it's clearly cremains of something. There's a sticker on it, and there's teeth marks in it. And so what we figured out is that while these fires were raging, a coyote must have dug up some sweet person's sweet pet. That passed away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Carried it to our house and left it on our lawn. So that was fucking. This is like, during when the fires are happening. So everything is horrible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that was like, felt like an ominous sign.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I could kind of make out the, like, the stuff on the sticker that was clearly from the place where the animal had been cremated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you're positive it was an animal?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, because the name was Frieda. It just said Frida.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you positive it's not a person?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It says Guardian animal aftercare on a sticker.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry, I just needed the confirmation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it looks really old, like, so you can't make that out. So it looks like it's been buried for a while. And so I could kind of make out. This is me doing my fucking best Sleuth thing ever, by the way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I could kind of make out the name of the person. And so we called the place that with the animal. They called the place on the sticker. And they're like, we're so old school. We just have, like, files. It's probably from a long time ago. So we tried. We asked our neighbors, like, do you know this person's name? And they don't, so. And I just want to return it to them because, like, if I came out and, like, let's say I had buried one of my beloved pets in my yard and it was fucking dug up, so they might not live there anymore, but I think I should give them. Give it a new burial. Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You could do that. That'd be really nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or you could take it in the middle of the night and throw it over someone else's fence, let them have a fucking problem. There's options, I'm saying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I mean, I have video of the coyotes playing in that area that night, so, like, that didn't already happen, thank God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're positive someone didn't just like that over a fence? I'm pretty sure that's really disturbing, isn't that? And quite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry I told, but. But it's also, like, sweet in a weird way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I'm glad your coyote story is sweet, because mine, they almost killed Blossom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just recently. I feel like the coyotes are really under the gun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I saw one today in the street.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, everybody got driven down cause of the fires. Like, it is not good in terms of poor, you know, actual wild animals.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it's also not good in terms of little white terriers just trying to act like they're in charge of their domain. My dog Blossom, at five in the morning, needed to go out because she could hear the coyotes. And then she got bit. And it was crazy because this is the same Blossom who survived a killer bee sting. Oh, that's right. She has been up against it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This dog, she needs. She's an indoor dog. Is that a thing?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think so. I think she's becoming convinced.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It could have been like, if she were a little smaller, they would have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Carried her off entirely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucking thank God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, she makes this insane sound, which is what happened when my cousin Stevie's dog Betty attacked her. She makes a sound that scared everybody for like an hour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like a scream.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a scream and then she gets away. So she's kind of. I respect her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely. Just start screaming. That's what we've talked about a lot of times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can apologize for screaming. You can't apologize for having done nothing when you should have been screaming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You really. You really landed on something there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I'm going to rebury it. I'll let you know what happens. I'm going to have, like a little.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ceremony in your own yard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's nice. Just to, like, since we can't find the person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Give Frieda her final resting place.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sweet little Frida. Frieda sounds like a. Like a Pomeranian name, doesn't it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it does. Or Shih Tzu.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Frida. Just running that house. One of those dogs that runs the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

House for sure all day for no reason.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or she's like a real nice. Kind of like one of those, like a Chow. German shepherd mix.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The fluffy one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Where she's kind of like fluffy and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God, this dog toeing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who is this dog?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe she's a Persian cat. We don't fucking know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's true. What if Frida's a boa constrictor and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'Re like, get that out of my fucking house now. So it's just been sitting. I walk by it every night. It's just been sitting on my, like, lawn table.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just like, problem to be solved.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Gotta do something about that. I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So hard to lose a pet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Sorry, that was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I mean, it's interesting. At least it's interesting. It's not me saying yes. I'm still watching Seinfeld season eight. It just gets better and better every episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you watching the show called Apple Cider Vinegar? It's on Netflix.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Perfect. I can switch right over from Seinfeld. It's like they'll be right next to each other.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a true story. It's a dramatization about a gal who just completely one of those lied about having cancer on the Internet and made a career out of, like, her saving her own life through nutrition.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was all a scam.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it is a true story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a true story. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have to watch that. Oh, my God. Those ones are my favorite because I do feel like it's like Scamanda, which, if listener. If you haven't listened to that podcast, please stop this one immediately and run over there. Cause these stories of people like that are so I could. All day long. I want to hear them. They're just like, how did you. You started off, you had a real threat to your life. It traumatized you in some way. But then also something else happened to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then the way they describe it and this show does that. It's like you kind of feel empathy. This girl's clearly, like, does monstrous things. But you understand initial motivations.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's just what you need. But then after that, it's just a whole mess.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't. I can't imagine what it feels like to have love just outpoured towards you. When you say, I have this thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. They show that. It's like, yeah, bananas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Ooh, apple cider vinegar. Yeah, check. I'm on that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Should we get to something upbeat and funny? Because. Yes, we got some letters, right? Or emails, one would call them handwritten, longhand, long form missives about how I covered the Tenerife airport disaster last week in episode 467. And we had all kinds of questions for pilots and airplane people, and so I guess we got some answers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm so frightened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, I'll go first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is called I Promise Pilots Are Friendlier Than youn Think. Hello, all. I was listening to the latest episode when Georgia covered the Tenerife airport disaster. It's a devastating case. We all study extensively as pilots. And like George said, the air traffic phraseology has now been standardized to avoid such an accident from ever happening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's good to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But, Karen, it says, I promise we're far more patient than we seem. Because you said. What did you say?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. It's something like. I can't remember.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You said, I think pilots would have no patience for me and my. Like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Like, they're just so organized and calm and by the book, and they have next steps.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They don't want to talk to you about your.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My little stories.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Yeah. I promise we're far more patient than we seem. We're not all engineers. And as much as we Take our jobs very seriously and communication is kept to the essential during critical stages of flight. I've yet to meet a fellow pilot who wouldn't talk your ear off, given the opportunity.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh, neat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Flying is an absolute privilege. And most of us are so humbled by the fact that we get to experience it, let alone do it for a living.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. And then it says only 6% of pilots worldwide are women. I've had the honor of being taught by some incredibly badass female pilots, and I'm proud to have joined the ranking. We always need more women in aviation and STEM in general. A little shout out to the young women listening. You can do anything. Show those boys how it's done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you for everything you do. You've kept me company during my many hours commuting to and from airports for training. Welcome. A welcome reprieve when I need to switch off learning mode. SSDGM N. N. Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How great is that? N. Like was like. Okay, I'll get into this conversation with you and all young women. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And while I'm here, let me teach.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You a thing about. Well, which is very meaningful because that's a person N. Who is a constant handler of shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

May we all be up there with the greatest. All right, well, I have one too. I don't know what it says.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, let's see. Alejandra gave us both one to read to each other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No instructions.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So here's mine. The subject line is, can confirm pilots have no patience for you, Karen. Then it says, light hearted, two minute read.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen, on the last episode, 467, you said, I think a pilot would have no patience for my personality. Oh, there it is. There's the quote.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Perfect.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I can confirm you're probably right because I'm a Karen. And my dad, who was a pilot for 30 years, didn't put up with my bullshit either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It sounds like someone else's firefighter father named Jim.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a lot of these dads out there and I'm glad we're finally talking about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're no bullshit dads.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My dad, Captain Craig, flew for major domestic airlines before and after 911 and is a real hard ass in the best way. You'll be happ to know, Georgia, that pilots in general are very meticulous people and not willing to be rushed through procedure for anyone. For example, my dad does a walk around inspection of the car before he gets in all caps. Every single time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God. My dad does the op. The. When he's leaving the car, he checks every door handle. Oh, yeah, Three or four times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just lock it down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, dads okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Even when le just leaving the grocery store after running a quick errand. And has very rigid rules about safety. And then in quotes like talking. This car's not moving until everyone has.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Their seat belts on 100%.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As you can imagine, little teenage Karen, me and Captain Craig didn't always get along so well. But now that I'm an adult and he isn't teaching me standard operating procedures for making my bed and debriefing me about Friday night parties, we have a great relationship.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Debriefing me about Friday night parties. He also makes me feel much calmer about flying. I frequently text him when I see scary plane stuff in the news, and he is the first to reassure me that flying is very safe and gives me the inside scoop on any positive changes happening in airline safety. Stay sexy and don't BS around pilots.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jana, Jana, can we get your dad's phone number so we can also text him when things happen?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Could we start a segment with Captain Craig called Airmail? And he just, like, maybe every week sends us an email that says, hey, I listened to the last episode. This is what I would have done differently.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. And, like, but here's also why you shouldn't worry and, like, everything's going to be okay. Yes, I want reassurance, too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not just about air flight or anything. Just general Captain Craig stuff in the world.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Debrief me and inform me about and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let'S have some Friday night parties and calm me down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And En will be there too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And let's. Of course, En is invited. As always, En was here first. That was amazing. That was great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it. You guys always write in when you have thoughts and feelings. We might not read them, but we appreciate it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks, Alejandro. That was so good. All right, should we talk about the network?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, definitely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We have a podcast network. Did you know? It's called Exactly Right Media. And here's what's going on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This week on Bananas, Kurt and Scotty are joined by comedian Sashir Zamada to talk about the world's most bizarre and hilarious news stories. She is so freaking funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's so cool. Over on this podcast will kill you. Aaron and Aaron go on a deadly deep dive into the death cap mushroom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ooh, God, they're good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they're good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Speaking of toxic, Bridger welcomes actor and comedian Vinnie Thomas on I said no gifts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have to say that was just purely an Allison joke that I could not stop laughing at. Vinnie Thomas is one of the best comedians around. Of course we love Bridger Weiniger. Nobody's toxic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nobody but everybody. And despite Bridger's explicit instructions, Vinn with an unsolicited gift. See what happens next by listening to. I said no gifts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. When you're done with that, you can go over to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. That's us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This week we traveled back to September 8, 2016, recapping episode 33 called what About Mimi? Where we covered the Jane Mixer case alongside the Co Ed Killer. And we also covered the unbelievable survival story of Jennifer Mori.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So in honor of the Rewind episodes, we've stocked one of our most iconic T shirts. It's one of our earliest our good friend Kat Solon's T shirt design. Here's the thing. Fuck everyone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I meant to wear the sweatshirt because I stole one, because it is my favorite design, but I couldn't find it because I think it's in the wash. Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's available as a mug or crewneck sweatshirt. It's a great way to tell all the parents at pick up what you really think. And it's inspired by episode number 28 of Rewind and Karen's telling of the Terry Jo Duparos survival story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Incredible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So get that merch. My favoritemurder.com.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It'S such a good little picture of a little blonde girl sitting on a raft by herself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's unbelievable. It's a total fan fave.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just the greatest. All right, you go first this week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, I'll go first this week. Okay. This is just one of those awful stories that we hear all the time. It's one of those unfair stories about someone doing a bad thing and then instead of taking responsibility for it, doubling down and trying to evade that problem via murder. Like Selena's story that we told on Rewind recently.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. You know, this is the eternal human problem. Everybody does it. It's not to the person. It is a human condition of the shame you feel when you do a bad thing or a wrong thing. So you're like, I can't feel this shame anymore. So what I'm gonna do is give somebody else this shame. And that'll work. The problem is it never does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It doesn't. So today's story is about a murder that rocked New York City right in the middle of the summer of 2020. Remember that when everyone is still reeling from the early days of COVID So I don't remember this because I think that there was just so much going on in the news.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The main sources for this story are reporting in the New York Times and a really beautiful tribute to the victim written by his sister Ruby Soleil. The rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So it's July 14, 2020, and we're in the Lower east side of New York City, which as you know, these days is cool. It's a desirable high end neighborhood. A 30 year old woman is riding the elevator up to her cousin's apartment. Her family had asked her to check on him since they hadn't been able to get in touch with him. Always bad. The cousin that she's going to check on is named Fahim soleil and he's 33 years old. Faheem is an entrepreneur and has found really great success with several startups. You know this one, the most recent is a motorcycle delivery app that's widely used in Nigeria. He was born in 1986 in Saudi Arabia where his father was a professor at the time. The family is originally from Bangladesh, then they moved to America when Fahim was four years old. And then it's the classic. Struggling financially for years while Fahim's father finished his PhD so he could make a life for his children. That classic immigrant story. Wanted a better education, better opportunities for their children and the lengths and struggles they go to achieve that. So Fahim is a born engineer and is always tinkering with things from an early age. He's one of those kids. My brother was totally like, you get a clock and you take it apart immediately to see how it works and then you put it back together. Yeah, I was not one of those kids.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Me either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He learns to code and begins launching little tech startups in his teens.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The first one is called Monkey do and it's quote jokes, pranks, fake poop fart spray and more for teenagers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, for sale?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's the, it's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's a prank store online. Yeah, that's okay. Can I just say that the magic shop, it was a magic and pet shop in my hometown. Yeah, the Pet Stop. And they sold magic and pets, Magic and pets. And they sold all that stuff in there. So there was like birds and nothing. I think the guy had a monkey for a little while. Adrian.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What the fuck?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Adrian. And my sister and I talk about the monkey a lot because it was. Yeah, but, and, but then basically during their, like late 70s, early 80s, they need to kind of expand just that like they're not making all their money on selling like a lizard once a week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so they start getting. Remember those rubber masks that like you could get a Reagan mask and they're very lifelike.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, they just started all these rubber.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Masks, like pranks and jokes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pranks and the gum. And my next door neighbor was a real trickster. 12 year old. And so he was always like, would you like a piece of gum? You've never seen the brand of. And so that is like, I just love that because that is that age and that like, what's ne, what's necessary right now? A stink bomb.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. What do I want to create and make for other people? This is exactly it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Garlic gum.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And this is. And it does. It's a really good indication of his personality because this is exactly what he's like. He's bright and funny. He's carefree, he's curious, smart, obviously. Very smart, obviously. And the website performs really well. And he actually monitors, monetizes it with ads. And this is when he's 13. So this is like the late 90s when shit like this, we didn't. No one knew to do stuff like this yet. And a 13 year old is coding himself. Like, I think his parents were freaked out when he got his first check. And they're like, what is this from? And then he like showed them and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They'Re like, all right, my business, my business.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Welcome at 13. Yeah. So amazingly, Fahim makes enough money through these kinds of ventures to put himself through college.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that American dream his parents had.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It'S already happening in the house. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. After college, he finds more success in the prank space with a playful website for generating prank calls. So clearly he's. He likes to have fun, but also.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, find tapping into a niche where it's like, what are me and all my friends truly passionate about? Tricking people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Prank calls. Tricking, like, it is that thing of like, find a need and fill it. Yep, totally. So he did that so good. Fahim takes the money he earns from this venture. He wants to now steer away. He's getting a little older from the prank world into more serious ventures. So then he completely pivots and does a 180. Now he's like, look, I want to give other people the opportunity that my parents gave me by moving to the US and getting an education. I want to give that to other people. He just completely pivots from this prank world into becoming this like, altruistic person. He wants to give other people the opportunity that his parents gave him. And so he finds enormous success with a ride app based in Bangladesh and then with an app called Gokana, which is a Nigerian motorcycle delivery app. And it gives people in Nigeria and all these people so many opportunities that they didn't have. His company later stated, quote, he believed young Nigerians are extremely bright and talented individuals who would flourish if just given the right opportunity. So the Saleh family is just obviously bursting with pride over Fahim, and he's known to be particularly kind and generous. So he's 33 years old and he's close to his family. He had recently gotten his new grown up apartment in the Lower east side. He's also recently gotten a dog, which is a Pomsky named Layla, who he adores. Just looks like a little husky. It's so cute. And these photos of him with the dog, like, smiling. He's just this like beautiful bright smile, open face, kind eyes. He's just this like, clearly beautiful person. Still, despite being an adult, Fahim's father checks in with him every day to make sure he's remembering to eat. Because, like, people like my brother who are obsessed with computers and tinkering, they'll just work through the night and we'll forget to eat. My mom used to have to take my brother's keyboard, computer keyboard with her to work in the morning, so my brother would go to school. This is like elementary school. So Fahim's apartment is in a small luxury condo building with only seven units. There's no doorman and there's only one apartment on each floor. And it's the kind where the elevator opens to the apartment instead of like a hallway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you need a key to select your particular floor in the elevator. So when Fahim's cousin gets off the elevator in his apartment and takes a few steps in, she makes just the absolute most horrific discovery you can imagine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This story is so awful. And I definitely remember reading about it during quarantine and having it be that kind of very surreal and very kind of isolated experience of like taking it all in and just awful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the headlines that they used were particularly horrible. And that's one of the things his sister says in this tribute she, she wrote for him online. You can read it online that these like, she's flying across country to, like, identify her brother and these like, grisly headlines are all she sees on her computer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was it like New York Post?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of course.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Because the cousin finds Fahim's torso on his living room floor as she Walks in. She flees the apartment, calls the police. And when they arrive, the police find Fahim's head and limbs in a garbage bag. They also find an electric saw still plugged into the wall. And they find cleaning supplies. And it looks like the scene has already been significantly cleaned up, but it looks like someone's in the middle of cleaning up the scene. So Fahim's family is very close knit, and they're absolutely, obviously destroyed by this news. And this is the summer of 2020. So because of COVID restrictions, Ruby has to identify Fahim's body from a picture, and she just didn't want her parents to have to do it. So she agrees, and she writes, quote, I began to caress his face on the computer screen with my index finger as tears poured down my cheeks. I just wanted to tell him, I'm so sorry, Fahim. I'm so sorry, Fahim. My poor, sweet brother. My heart. The medical examiner finds that Fahim's cause of death was from multiple stab wounds to the neck and torso. Again, Fahim's building has no doorman, but there are security cameras in all the common areas. So when the police look back at this footage, they see Fahim returning to the building on July 12 after going out for a run. And then a man in a black suit wearing a black N95 mask and black gloves, who appears to be already inside the building when Fahim walks in, follows him into the elevator. And when the elevator doors open into Fahim's apartment, the man in the suit uses a taser to subdue him and then drags him into the apartment. At first, at least one police source tells the press, he believes this to be a hired hitman. They believe that this person was still in the process of trying to get Fahim's body out of the apartment the next day when his cousin came over to check on him. But the impression that this was the work of a professional quickly changes when police realize that shortly after the murder, the killer had used one of Fahim's credit cards to take an Uber to a nearby Home Depot to buy extra cleaning supplies. Surveillance video from the elevator shows the man coming back to the apartment with this equipment on July 14, the day Fahim's cousin would later come by. The footage shows him vacuuming inside the elevator. And I didn't know this, but he was vacuuming inside the elevator because there's a chip that's deployed when a taser goes off that identifies the taser. Oh, like a little chip. Did you know that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I did not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't that wild?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that makes sense, right? It's like. It's a weapon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someone needs to go. Be able to go and find, like, right. What. Where it was, where it happened. It's a weapon.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's pretty brilliant. Then after the vacuuming, he disappears into Fahim's apartment to begin cleaning the scene and dismembering the body. And then while he's doing this, it turns out that the battery in the saw runs out. And that's why the murderer left to get a new. To go to Home Depot to get a new battery. And I, by the grace of God, somehow this is the point that Fahim's cousin comes into the apartment to check on him, because what would have happened if she had come in any sooner, any that battery hadn't died? You know, I mean, it's like, it's a horrible situation, but, you know, to look at one positive thing that that didn't happen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Thank God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So then police learn something that quickly makes the whole investigation fall into place. They figure out that Fahim's former assistant, a 25 year old named Tyrese Haspil, had resigned the previous year. He did so right before Fahim realized that Tyrese had stolen $35,000 from him by setting up a bo bogus company and embezzling funds through payments to that fake company. Therese had originally been hired to keep Fahim's personal finances in order. So he had access to all this information. And after learning about the feth, Fahim confronted him and then actually declined to press charges and said he wanted to work out a repayment plan with Tyrese. That was the kind of person he was. He was very generous and he was willing to, like, work with him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he wouldn't get in trouble.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, he probably knew him as a friend.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, that's a very close relationship.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. What Fahim didn't realize, or what he was possibly about to find out in July of 2020, was that Tyrese had actually continued stealing from him in a separate scheme even after he didn't work for him any longer. In fact, Tyrese repaid Fahim with Fahim's own stolen money from the second scheme. Yeah, this one involved fake PayPal charges. Tyrese had actually stolen an additional 400,000 from Faheem.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So in 2020, Tyrese had been becoming afraid that Fahim was about to discover that additional theft, which was obviously much larger and probably was going to get him in, you know, legal trouble and had been plotting for months to Kill him to prevent getting caught. They find that he had made two other attempts in the recent past to kill Fahim.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whoa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but he, like, he didn't go through with them. Not that like he would have noticed. Once the police uncover these two schemes, they realized Tyrese is the man from the surveillance videos, and he's arrested on July 17th. So just a couple. They. They went after that quick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just a couple days later, he's arrested at an Airbnb in Soho, which is about 10 blocks from Fahim's apartment. And according to the New York da, Tyrese had started working on the plot that he went through with about a month in advance. In June of 2020, he bought contractor bags, a Swiffer mop, and the battery operated saw. He also contacted a real estate broker asking to tour a vacant apartment across the street from Fahim's. And somehow he was able to make a copy of the key to that apartment and installed a nest camera so he could track Fahim's movements from across the the street in the apartment.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That seems really advanced.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In terms of this kind of planning, it's clearly not a crime of passion. Clearly not. Somebody like you snapped because someone was so awful to you. It's just like very methodical, but also.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not a professional killer. So it's also very more methodical than you'd think it would be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then on July 13, Tyrese followed another resident into Fahim's building at 8.30am and hid in the package room, waiting for Fahim to leave, and then returned from his run. So after the murder, he took an Uber to Jersey City, getting rid of some of the evidence in trash cans there. And he returned the next day to finish cleaning up the apartment and to dispose of Fahim's body. And that's when he ran out of the battery for the saw. So he. When he came back from getting the battery, he saw the police outside the apartment and fled. And then he went. And then he went through that night with lavish plans he had made for his girlfriend's birthday party that he was throwing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like just pivoted and went through a party.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She didn't know what was going on, by the way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry. Doesn't it just. Just thinking about it now, because that happens so often where it's like the crime scene's there and then the killer comes back for whatever reason.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Doesn't it feel like while the police are still there, having discovered a crime scene, that they should be posting people like a block and two blocks away? To be tracking every single person that comes and immediately goes away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or not like. Or just have a stakeout and not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Immediately like the nest camera up in the old Airbnb.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. No, that's a really good point.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It just or should be in the future because it seems like this is a thing that happens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Definitely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's a really good point. So Therese is charged with first degree murder, grand larceny and burglary, among other charges. He's found guilty on all charges in June of 2024 and in September of 2024. This past September, he's sentenced to at least 40 years in prison. Fahim's family are, of course, still absolutely devastated by the loss of their son and brother. Fahim's sister, in her tribute, writes that quote, sometimes it still doesn't feel real that Fahim is gone. And sometimes it feels too precisely like the cruel, heinous and unbearable reality that it is, letting me see nothing but darkness and feel nothing but piercing pain in every quadrant of my heart. End quote. And that is the story of the senseless, greed fueled murder of Fahim Saleh, a self made, brilliant, kind and forgiving young man whose family will never be the same.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, I only knew about that story up until a point. Cause you're right. When it broke, it was like this awful thing. And then it was like. And then here's another bigger, scarier, awful thing. And.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, and it was such a quick turnaround too. It's like they got him immediately and then it was just waiting for the trial.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was really good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I'm going to tell a horrible story as well. This is how we do it. But mine is definitely very, very different than yours.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And also, you might remember it's from 2005, and it was a bit of a cultural moment, at least in Northern California where I was, you couldn't get away from this story for a little while. And recently our writer Allison Agosti reminded me of it and she sent me this article that basically we'll talk about at the end that started this, where I was like, oh, I have to cover this. I completely forgot about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What is it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's March 22, 2005. Okay. And I'm just gonna set the scene for you, please. President George W. Bush is waging war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Martha Stewart has just completed her prison sentence for insider trading. And the Hilary Swank boxing movie Million Dollar Baby wins Best Picture at the Academy Awards.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just put yourself back There.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a year. I had the tiniest bangs you've ever seen. Oh, I mean, just little tiny bangs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I think I was out of baby bangs phase. Only because I had stopped drinking. Meanwhile, over In San Jose, California, something very gruesome is unfolding. It's just before 7:30pm And a woman is seated in the dining room at a Wendy's, ready to enjoy some of their fresh hot chili for dinner. She picks up her spoon, dips it into the bowl, and then takes what will be the most consequential bite of food in her entire life. As she begins to chew her mouth full of chili, she describes feeling something, quote, crunchy in her mouth. It just feels off. So she spits the item out to inspect it. That so called crunchy item in her chili appears to be a human fingertip.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tip or nail?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tip.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hold the entire tip.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Basically, the finger is what we will be calling it from now on in this story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not just one of those. Oh, I cut the top of my finger off with a knife and it's bleeding, but it's still like I'm sending a message.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the top of a finger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Oh my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

These are the very first moments in what will soon become a national media sensation and a costly PR crisis for one of America's biggest fast food chains. This is the story of the Wendy's severed finger event of 2005.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. It's not ringing a bell yet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Really? Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing. Okay. So the sources Maren used to research the story today are a Snopes article by writer David Mickelson, articles from the Associated Press and from the San Francisco Chronicle, most of which were published in 2005. And the rest of our sources are listed in our show notes if you want to go see and read. Okay, so Wendy's. San Jose, 2005, 7:30pm A woman just spits out a fingertip and is quite understandably freaking out. She starts telling the other diners to stop eating their food as she shows off the small finger. It's about an inch long. It does have a fingernail on one end.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love her type. That's not just like, oh my God. She just starts fucking screaming about it. Stop eating, stop eating, stop eating. Good for her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then she rushes up to the restaurant's employees to tell them what's happened. And as she does, as the San Jose Mercury News later reports, at least three people in the dining room become physically ill. Sure. So you're sitting there eating and Then someone's like, holy shit, there's a finger in my chili.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And like, that's really the first time most of them had ever seen a severed finger before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You gotta hope you're.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, You're. I didn't think about that at all. You're connecting all these things and then you're just like. And I have just taken a bite of whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. This is horrific and I love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, good. But some of the Wendy's employees seem to be in disbelief. One patron will later tell the Mercury News, quote, they told us it was a vegetable. The people from Wendy's were poking at it with a spoon. End quote. But I mean, what are they supposed to do? This is wild. This is like. What? How are you even saying that this is real? There's no way this is real.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess it could be Harmony if you look really blurry, if you don't have your glasses on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Harmony doesn't have a fingernail on it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's very true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As far as I know. I shouldn't just say that kind of stuff. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She really should fact check.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm going to someday. Okay. So it's very understandable why these employees are questioning what's going on. They are the ones that made the chili. They made it at 2pm in the restaurant or they assembled it. Made is probably generous, but I'm not exactly sure. But they make it there as usual every day. So no one on the staff was involved in any accidents. No one lost a fingertip. It doesn't make sense that something that shocking is found in the chili from their restaurant. But not everyone was in denial. Someone in that restaurant called the police. And the police arrive alongside officials from the Santa Clara County Health Department led by health officer named Dr. Marty Fenstersheib.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dr. Fensterseibe. It's 7:30 on a weeknight. He's at home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ring, ring, ring.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Real boring. Getting ready for bed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Crossword puzzle. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No big. Like his life isn't that exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then the fucking call of a lifetime comes in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jup. And he, like, puts on his half glasses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he says, I've got a feeling that they need my services.

[Karen Kilgariff]

His wife puts his cape on, his children kiss him goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dr. Marty Fensersheib is about to roll. So at his command, the fingertip is quickly wrapped up in damp gauze and sent off to the medical examiner's office who is now tasked with determining whether or not it is indeed a human body part. Next, Dr. Fenster Scheib. Shuts down the restaurant until he and his officers can figure out what in the living hell is going on. The prepared chili that's on site, which had been made at 2:00 that afternoon, as I said, is hauled off for inspection, as are all the ingredients that the restaurant has on hand to prepare any new batches of chili. Right, so they just take all the chili fixins, which, you know, are a plastic batch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just. I was just gonna say that, like, they don't chop and fucking dice. That shit's just going from a bag to a heating thing, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't say for sure. I really wish I could call my friend Erica Sobel, who I went to high school with. She worked at Wendy's for years and she listens to this podcast. Erica, text me, please, if you know anything about the preparation for the Wendy's chili. I should have thought of that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know that people. That people listening right now are going to write in and tell us about their fast food. My God. Send us your fast food experiences, the grossest ones.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But especially Wendy's employees, we want to hear from you in any way you would like to share with us my.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Favorite murder at Gmail.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I have to say this. Well, you'll see. I won't give anything away right now, but. So it doesn't take long for Dr. Fensterseibe and his team to figure out that finger was in fact, not severed in the restaurant. None of the employees show any signs of trauma or bleeding, and they don't find any other health or safety issues in that kitchen. Instead, the situation seems contained to that one diner's cup of chili and presumably the larger batch that that cup came from.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure, she's the luckiest woman in the world. Or the least unlucky woman in the world.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, exactly. So a few hours later, this Wendy's is given an okay to reopen. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, thank you. I mean, give it a night, close it for the night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then later that night, the local news reports on this story, but it's not given hardly any airtime at all. And they end it by saying the report is unconfirmed. So it's basically just. Word is that. But the next day, the medical examiner confirms what everyone was dreading. The object in the chili is not a vegetable or a prop of any kind. It is a human fingertip. And when that information is sent to the health officer, Dr. Fenstersheim, he is the unenviable task of informing the public, because when the finger was discovered, they made the chili at 2, the finger was discovered at 7:30. That means countless customers could have purchased and eaten from the same batch of chili.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one's ever eating chili again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, it was truly. That is what happened for a while in Northern California. Because it was just the imprint of it on everyone's mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so gross.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is the thing of like. Like it doesn't. It's like once the story hits, it kind of doesn't matter whether or not it's true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kind of like gossip.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Maren writes to me in parentheses. Note to Karen. I haven't been able to find a source that specifically states how many customers purchased the chili that day. It's always in vague terms. And I'm like, no more than four.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely not. More like there's who? Nobody. No one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet you when the chili first came out in like the 80s, people were like, like, what a great substitute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But you could put it on a potato, baked potato.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Potato. You can have it with a salad. I think by 2005, people are just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like chili at fast food.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. Yeah, I could be wrong again. Wendy. Heads, let me know. So Dr. Fenster Scheib makes a public statement where he reassures anyone who ate the chili in that timeframe from this specific Wendy's that they are probably fine, since the fingertip was presumably cooked at high enough temperatures to kill bacteria and viruses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then I just picture him being c and popping it in his mouth to be like, it's totally fine. Chew, chew, chew.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's Erin Brockovich with. Then you drink the water. Then you. If it's so fine, you drink the water.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You have some chili from yesterday. Marty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. So he advises anyone who may have eaten that chili to check in with their doctor just in case. Imagine having to run that press conference. Just the waves of horrified barfing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God. Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just like stand by me at the old pie eating contest. Okay. Now that a public health official is confirming the initial reports, of course. Then local and national news picks up on the story. The San Francisco Chronicle actually sends a reporter to the Wendy's in San Jose to interview diners. And one woman who happens to be eating a bowl of chili when she's approached by the reporter, tells the reporter she'd heard rumors about the finger, but she assumed it was just an urban.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Legend on the news that night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A four day old urban legend. That's denial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She liked her chili, loves her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe we just didn't know about Wendy's Chili, this is so good that you'll.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Eat it even after when you're like, probably not a finger though, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they took care of it already. Yeah. You know, it's a new batch. Why didn't they pull all the chili off their fucking. The market?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think they were like, there's no way this happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, you know, okay. So. Another diner hadn't heard the news at all until she got to Wendy's and overheard employees whispering about it behind the counter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love it. Shut up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She tells the reporter, quote, I actually did check my food with my spoon again. Was that food Chili?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Poking her burger with a spoon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Chili's being eaten. There's even a customer who walks in, fully aware of the situation and jokingly asks the staff quote, where's the finger at?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ooh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then I just wrote in all caps, I love him. I know it's a guy and I love him. But in the first wave of reporting the story, one key detail is always missing. The name of the woman who discovered the finger. Her chili.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She explicitly asks not to be identified or described even, and reporters honor that request. But of course, her identity can't stay secret for long as this story gets wider and wider and reporters find out that this woman's name is Anna Ayala and she's a 39 year old woman from Las Vegas who was in San Jose visiting relatives. While Dr. Fensterseibe has been trying to give the public peace of mind about any physical effects of consuming the contaminated chili, the psychological fallout, of course, is uncontainable. And he knows this firsthand because he's the one that has to call Anna to give her the bad news. He's been checking in on her since the night before, which is when it happened, but now he has that confirmation from the medical examiner. So he asked to tell her that in fact it was a human body part in her chili.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She didn't want anyone to know, like her name, because it's the same thing when you win the lottery. Like, your family's just going to come after you for body part parts the way they come after you for money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or. Or they're just like constantly like, oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God, she chewed a finger.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he later says, quote, I had to confirm it to her that she had indeed put a piece of human finger in her mouth. She kind of lost it. Yeah, end quote. Totally understandable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So within a week of her gruesome experience, Anna has completely dropped the pretense of anonymity, and now she's making the media rounds she gives an exclusive interview to Good Morning America where she says that she's considering filing a lawsuit and talks about the emotional distress of the whole ordeal. She tells them, quote, the thought of, you know, just knowing that there was a human remain in my mouth, it's disgusting. It's tearing me apart inside. End quote. So at first, of course, there's this outpouring of sympathy for her and, of course, a widespread disgust toward Wendy's and their chili. And then, over the next couple weeks, Anna's story dominates national headlines. It fuels endless late night jokes, which was the culture back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm so glad that's not really, like, a thing anymore. Yeah, it was so tasteless.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was so. Well, I mean, it was just expected at the time. It was just like, yes, this is gonna happen. And it's immediately gonna be this. The joke fuel, and, you know, everything's up for ridicule. It also, though, tanks Wendy's sales.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Especially in Northern California. I was there. This is the truth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You didn't need it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. No one. Everyone just was weirded out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But Wendy's is not sitting idly by just watching all this happen. They, as a corporation, of course, are looking for answers. This is big business. And they're not just going to sit there and be like, we're so sorry. They make all their San Jose staffers take a polygraph test to show that they played no part in placing the finger in the chili.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then they hire their own private investigator to look into the matter for themselves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Damn, Wendy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Yes. Most importantly, the company posts a $50,000 reward, which they'll later bump up to $100,000.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

For any information about how a finger could have wound up in their chili.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, so they think it's fucking sabotage?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hell, yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they're ready to pay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're like, what's the. What's the whole story? Cuz this seems weird. We have a lot of checks and balances.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's one. That's one angle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody, not one employee at our restaurant, knows what the fuck's going on. It was not them. We stand behind them now that we've polygraph. Right. And just FYI, in 2005, $100,000 would have been 160,000 in today's money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You need that. This is so big. Lebowski with the toe. Yeah, it is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So anyone with information is asked to call Wendy's anonymous tip line, which their private investigator is actively screening themselves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was, like, the best gig he's ever gotten.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ever to be on the Wendy's severed finger tip line.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Severed finger tip line. Okay, so now, in tandem with Wendy's efforts, there's also an official police investigation into where this finger could have come from. And there are six detectives working on this case.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can we get those on a murder case, please?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Could we have some sexual assault paid attention to?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It would be great if we could get those kits tested. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But again, and I think we all know this now in 2025, literally 20 years later, that when a corpor has an issue, that that is what's focused on. This is a money making venture. And this is not thousands of dollars. This is hundreds of. This is millions of dollars. Probably.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the thing is, no one can figure it out. The employees at the San Jose Wendy's location have all been ruled out. A deeper dive into the restaurant's supply chain also turns up nothing. There are seven different suppliers involved in producing Wendy's chili. Not a single one has reported any recent workplace injuries. That said, there are some clues early on. The medical examiner notes that the fingertip is not decomposed, meaning that it was likely severed recently. He also points out that it looks, quote, torn off, possibly by manufacturing machinery, rather than cleanly cut.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gross.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Suggesting that it could have come from a workplace accident.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then with its neatly groomed, still intact fingernail, the medical examiner also suspects this finger belongs to a woman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This information gets the police exactly nowhere. They fingerprint the fingertip and then they run. So sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. I almost spit that water out. They fingerprinted the fingertip.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who had to hold it and touch it? And were they yelling the entire time? Oh, my God. No. Karen, the medical examiner is a professional.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're professionals.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They deal with this constantly. It's not that big of a deal to them. They run those fingertip fingerprints through national databases. No hits. Clean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Clean record. Fingertip. Wendy's, meanwhile, is now on the defensive. They bring their own forensic expert to consult with the medical examiner specifically on whether the fingertip had actually been cooked with the chili or added afterwards. Their analysis concludes that the finger had, in fact, been added later.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dr. Fenstershot loops back into the tell. Reporters, quote, the possibilities are still all out there on where and when the figuretip came into the chile. So they're going to, like, the health department, the. Everybody's going back to the press over and over, like, updates and like, here's what needs to happen now. People need to. This story needs to be controlled in some way with each new Bit of information that comes to light. Wendy's feels more reaffirmed that they have done nothing wrong and that they're being set up. The corporation's senior vice president of communications at the time, Denny lynch, tells the New York Times, quote, someone put something in a bowl of chili, but it was not us. We don't know what happened, but we know Wendy's is innocent, end quote. So Anna Ayala, meanwhile, is not backing down. Her attorney immediately shoots back saying, quote, obviously something slipped through, to put it lightly. And this is a strict liability type of case. It is a product liability case. And a consumer doesn't expect to find body parts in their food, end quote. So while all of that's playing out in the media, behind the scenes, the Wendy's tip line is active. And in a matter of weeks they reportedly received nearly 300 tips. And some are so bizarre, they end up making the news.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For example, one comes from a 59 year old Nevada woman who'd recently lost a finger to a leopard at her exotic animal compound outside of Las Vegas, which is again where Anna lives. The woman says she last saw her finger on ice at the hospital, but has no idea where it ended up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Beyond that, someone's selling finger tips to. No, it doesn't track.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Doesn't. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not getting from A to B.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This lead certainly adds more color to an already weird case. But the police quickly shut it down because the woman's lost finger in the finger found by Anna. Look entirely different.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How do you fucking tell? Two. Fingerprint. Come on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You want me to tell you? Yeah, they put eight fingertips in a lineup. They're all wearing turtlenecks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which one was in your mouth?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do any of these look familiar? Long fingernail. Little bitten fingernail.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Little quirky smile. One's got dimples.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hangnail. Okay, then a new tip is called into the Wendy's hotline. Ring, Ring. Wendy's fingertip hotline. But it's not about the finger. It's about Anna herself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anna.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This caller claims that back in 2002, Anna scammed her by selling her an $11,000 trailer that she, Anna, in fact, did not own. Oh, no, of course, this has nothing to do with the Wendy's incident. But if it's true, it could maybe shed some light on the character of the person that is at the center of all of this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not a great look for Anna. So around the same time, it comes to light that Anna had been involved in an unusually Large number of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no, you can't. You can't do that. No, no. People. People are on to you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The thing about lawsuits is it goes into the permanent record and the public record.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And like most people have. Zero to one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, you hope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'd hope.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so the AP reports, quote, Investigators have found 13 civil actions involving a Or her children. At times it says she has settled cases for cash payouts before the lawsuits have gone to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's. That's the scam right there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So now here we are. Also, some of these lawsuits are very shady. In 1999, for example, a car dealership sued Anna and her then boyfriend, accusing them of writing a bad check to buy a car.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The same year, Anna sued that dealership, claiming a wheel fell off of the vehicle that they had sold to her. Her case was eventually tossed out, and she reportedly never repaid the debt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hmm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So she got a car, tried to accuse them of like, the wheel fell on him. He almost killed us with this thing. They're like, you didn't pay for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It all gets settled out of court.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now people are wondering if Anna planned the whole incident with the hopes of reaching a big settlement with Wendy's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, now the standing up screaming thing makes a little more sense.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It kind of go. Then you're like, replaying it in your mind. The movie starts again. You see the scene in a different light. Suddenly, it's raining outside. Okay. The police investigation and media coverage begin to shift in that direction. And all eyes are now squ on anna.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Honey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

On April 6th, only about two weeks after Anna discovers the fingertip quote unquote, police get a warrant to search her home. When reporters catch wind of this, they swarm Anna's property, hoping to get a statement. And she calls out to those reporters from her front door saying, quote, lies, lies, lies. That's all I am hearing. They should look at Wendy's. What are they hiding? Why are we being victimized again and again?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, drama quit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I would like to. I wish we could hold up performances side by side and see who's is more convincing. Because I feel like when people are cornered like this and then they're like, no, we're just gonna double down and go bold. Yeah, it's some of the worst acting you've always ever seen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why do people think that they can get away with shit like this, though? Like, they just think they're smarter than everyone, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but you're not. It's like, actually kind of dumb.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You think you're smarter Than everybody. But also, you think you're a really good actor. You think you're a believable actor and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A good liar, which is just like, no, no, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And yet, just eight days later, on April 14th. So she's like, why am I being victimized? Everything's a lie. Then her. On April 14, her. Her lawyer tells the Associated Press that Anna is no longer pursuing legal action against Wendy's, citing, quote, great emotional distress because of the investigation and all the media.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what? I'm gonna drop it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just. I don't even care.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Forget it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't even like one. Want your chili?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're just being mean to me. So I guess I will give up this lawsuit where you put a severed finger in my chili.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't need a lifetime supply of chili. Like, just. I just. Just fine. Just fine. Just fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get it storm out of the kitchen. You started this fight, lady. About a week later, on April 21, both Anna and her husband Jamie are arrested during a raid on their home. There's a colorful detail in the Chronicle story that covers this where they say that Anna is reportedly watching Meet the Fockers on video when the police arrive. Okay, just to really paint that picture.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Someone'S PR was working overtime where they're like, what movie were they put that in?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Paint the whole picture. Maren included that. And she was like, a useless yet colorful detail is how she phrased it. So Anna's hit with two charges. Felony grand theft, connected to the allegations that she sold that trailer that wasn't hers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That thing's coming back in my picture.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, they'll pull that right back in just to get as much stuff against her as they can. But the other one, and more importantly, is the attempted grand theft for allegedly spreading the finger hoax at the expense of Wendy's business. Her husband Jamie is actually arrested the same night, but totally separate. He is not involved in that. As far as they know, he's arrested for failing to pay child support to his former partner. So Anna's held on $500,000 bail, and the plans are in motion to extradite her from Nevada to California for the Wendy's fraud alone. She's facing up to six years in prison and $2.5 million in restitution, which would be worth more than $4 million today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So at this point, the case against Anna is mostly circumstantial. Prosecutors need more concrete evidence to secure this conviction. And the biggest missing piece is the owner of the fingertip.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where are her children?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. Oh, I didn't even think of that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I was thinking the fingertip belonged to one of them. Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, figuring out where it came from could be the key to proving anna's involvement. On May 4, another tip comes into the Wendy's hotline. The caller claims to know exactly where the finger came from. He names a man who recently lost part of his finger in a workplace accident in Nevada. Who just so happens to work with Anna's husband.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maren's chosen to keep the finger's owner anonymous since he was never charged with a crime. Okay, so I support her in that choice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Says San Jose police hedge an event Nevada to question this man. And sure enough, he's missing a finger, which he explains he lost in an on the job accident not long ago. Then he drops a bombshell. He admits that he sold his severed finger to Anna's husband for a hundred dollars to settle a debt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You didn't question why someone wants your severed finger?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look, he wants that debt off the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Books, I'd just be like, sure I would sell my severed finger. Wouldn't you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, no questions asked, I guess.

[Georgia Hardstark]

NQA so. But not only that. Jamie allegedly told them that he and Anna planned to plant it in food. And according to legal filings, Jamie even promised him a cut of the eventual settlement. $250,000 as long as he kept quiet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How many natted lights had they had that night? Dude, like, he didn't. I. I'm on this guy's side.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I am, too. The finger guy was kind of like, well, this horrible thing happened to me. I don't have the top of my finger. They said they can't put it back on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I got my 150 fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I ow this guy, big time. He says he if I just give him the finger and then maybe a little more later on, I don't know. And then as it unfolds, he's like, oh, Jesus Christ. I have to call these people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is too messy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank God There's a tip line. 1-800-Frosty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Call now. Okay. So now. Authorities soon confirm with DNA that the finger belongs to this man. So now the case against Anna Ayala and her husband Jamie is solid. In September 2005, about six months after the whole saga began, the couple pleads guilty to conspiracy to file a false claim and attempted grand theft. Jamie's sentenced to 12 years, while Anna gets nine. Although later, the nine is reduced to four on a legal technicality as a part of their sentencing. The couple is ordered to pay Wendy's more than $20 million in damages.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which would be over $30 million today. But the company agrees to let them off the hook for this money as long as they never attempt to profit off of their hook.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Damn, they should have put them in their commercials. That would have been fucking hilarious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It so wouldn't have. As a person who was there. As a person who was there, having to kind of like grapple with this weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, I know it's not, but.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But also, is this. Is this how we are this vulnerable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To just kind of anything anyone wants to tell us? Anything?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Even though Wendy's is ultimately vindicated, Anna and Jamie's scam cost them dearly. The New York reports, quote, the claims and the mass of news media attention it brought caused individual franchises in Northern California to lose 20 to 50% of their sales. According to the affidavit, Wendy's estimated it has been losing a million dollars a day since the incident was made public on March 22. So in a desperate attempt to win customers back, Wendy's launches a free frosty weekend promotion. But the financial hit goes beyond corporate losses. Business at the San Jose Wendy's drops so drastically that several employees lose their jobs or have their hours cut. Over time, though, Wendy's more or less moves on. So do Anna and Jamie, who eventually serve their sentences. We don't know much about their lives post the Wendy's hoax, especially for Jamie, who returns completely to a private life. Never hear from him again. But in 2013, Anna's back in the headlines. That June, her 26 year old son accidentally shoots himself in the ankle with a gun which he is not allowed to possess because he is a convicted felon. But instead of just telling the truth, he and Anna file a false police report claiming he was shot by an unknown gunman. An officer working the case later tells ABC News, quote, they gave pretty specific information to the point we actually thought we had a suspect suspect. We interviewed this person, we conducted various forensic testing as far as gunshot residue goes. So we treated it like the real deal, end quote. Eventually, under police questioning, Anna's son admits that they made the whole story up. They are both arrested and ultimately convicted on charges related to filing the false report. So then again, for years, things are quiet until July of 2024, when the new York Times publishes an article with the innocuous title, quote, harris narrows gap against Trump. Times Sienna poll finds it's a standard piece on the latest 2024 presidential polling until people find buried within it, a quote from a 58 year old San Jose woman that catches their attention.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She tells the Times, quote, I'm a Democrat, but I've changed my mind. After everything that's happened with Joe Biden's administration. I mean, the border situation is out of control. Control, end quote. That woman is Anna Ayala. It doesn't take long for people to put two and two together. A senior editor at the Atlantic screen grabs the Times article and tweets, quote, the latest NYT poll write up quotes the woman who was convicted of planting a severed finger in her Wendy's chili Jesus. And of course, that goes viral. And the New York Times, now fully in damage control mode, issues a retraction saying, quote, the Times removed comments from one voter in an earlier version of this article after learning that the person had been convicted in an extortion scheme in which she made fraudulent claims, end quote. So with that, some 20 years since the first grabbing headlines alongside that quote, crunchy fingertip, this bizarre story of Anna Ayala comes to rest. For now. Anyway, that tweet and then the accompanying article is what Alison sent me when she was like, hey, and just in case, just, you know, keeping up with stuff. Did you know that this was going on? Oh, my God. And that's when I sent it to Maren and I was like, oh, my God, we have to tell this story. Yeah. And that is the story of the Wendy's Severed finger hoax of 2005.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I still have so many questions.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was it actually ever in her mouth? Did she have to go through a stout part? Was there a crunch?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet. No, there's no way you would do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you snapped.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Fake spitting. Fake spitting, already in the napkin. Unless she went all the way with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, you kind of got it. You know, when you tell a lie, it's best to get as close to the truth as possible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How close?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Closest to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you willing to get?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, not that fucking close. Did anyone get the award money? That's what I want to know, too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like so many questions.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I wonder. Well, but I think the person whose finger it was, if he called the tip line, he should get the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The money. No, should he?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was part of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was. He. He wasn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Think of the diners. Think of what the diners who heard her screaming and began projectile vomiting in that Wendy's dining room. Think of what they would want.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, they should get the money. Let's give them the money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, chili frog.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Lifetime chili. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fix it. That's how you reverse. It's all so upsetting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, man. That was one for the ages. That reminds me of one that, like, if you're going on a road trip with someone who doesn't listen to my favorite murder, play that one. Play this one for them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, for sure. Just like, just do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I feel like there was, like, when we do that and just go through, it's like, not just hometowns, but just like, do you remember weird stuff from your childhood? It's like, that's how, like, thinking of those stories where I was like, I remember when this happened. And it was. We would make jokes as we would drive by a Wendy's. We were constantly at, like, let's talk about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, please.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think I ever stopped going to Wendy's, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How would you. It's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's no fingers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, that's the show, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you guys for listening on your road trip. We appreciate you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now that I'm thinking about it, this should I have done a warning at the beginning of this story?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What about chili? No, that's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you hate chili? Don't listen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's called My favorite murder. So, like, if you can't handle a finger chili story, then get out of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our kitchen where we're chopping off fingertips. Left, right, and center. We love you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Georgia Hardstark]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our researchers are Maren McClashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail. Com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at. My favorite murder. Goodbye.