474 - It Cleans Ducks

Summary

Episode Summary: "It Cleans Ducks" - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Release Date: April 3, 2025

In episode 474 of "My Favorite Murder," hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark delve into two gripping narratives: the chilling 1986 murder of Kara Knott in Southern California and the enduring mystery surrounding the disappearance of aviation pioneer Amelia Earhart. Through meticulous storytelling and insightful discussions, Karen and Georgia shed light on these true crime stories, blending their signature humor with poignant reflections.

---

1. The Murder of Kara Knott

Background and Disappearance

Kara Knott, a 20-year-old junior at San Diego State University, was known for her intelligence, athleticism, and dedication to becoming a teacher. On December 26, 1986, Kara visited her boyfriend Wayne in Escondido, California, to care for him as he battled the flu. The following day, December 27, Kara decided to drive home from Wayne's residence in El Cajon. Despite informing her parents of her departure at 8 p.m., Kara failed to arrive by her expected time.

Georgia Hardstark [16:02]: "This is one of those stories that I just kept adding stuff to and wanting to research more until like I literally had to stop to go and get in the shower to get ready for the recording."

Search and Discovery

As midnight approached without any sign of Kara, her parents launched a frantic search. Without the aid of cell phones, they scoured every exit along the freeway for over eight hours. At dawn, Kara's white Volkswagen Beetle was found at the bottom of an off-ramp on the I-15 freeway, approximately 20 miles from both Escondido and El Cajon. Her body was later discovered in a dry creek bed beneath a 70-foot bridge, indicating foul play.

Georgia Hardstark [22:42]: "He said, 'I wish you could have known her. She was an angel.'"

Investigation and Suspect Identification

The investigation revealed alarming evidence:

• Foreign Blood: A single drop of AB positive blood was found on Kara's shoe, a rare blood type incidentally matching that of Craig Pyre, a 36-year-old California Highway Patrol officer with a 13-year tenure.

• Unique Fiber Evidence: A gold fiber recovered from Kara's sweatshirt matched the embroidery thread used in Pyre's uniform badge.

• Pattern of Behavior: Approximately 30 women reported similar encounters with Officer Pyre, noting that he frequently directed them to secluded off-ramps under various pretexts, creating opportunities for inappropriate interactions.

Karen Kilgariff [23:00]: "I wish you could have known her. She was an angel."

Trial and Conviction

Despite initial skepticism from officers aware of Pyre's questionable conduct, the mounting evidence against him became undeniable. His patrol car contained tire marks that matched those found at the crime scene, and discrepancies in his logbook entries further implicated him. In 1988, after a hung jury in his first trial, Pyre was retried, found guilty of first-degree murder, and sentenced to life imprisonment. To this day, Pyre maintains his innocence and has refused DNA testing that could conclusively tie him to the crime.

Georgia Hardstark [30:27]: "She did this to me."

Impact and Memorialization

Kara's father, Sam Knott, transformed the desolate crime scene into the San Diego Crime Victims Memorial Garden, a serene space honoring victims of violent crimes. Tragically, Sam passed away in 2000 from a heart attack while attending a memorial for Kara, leaving behind a legacy of resilience and advocacy for victims' rights.

Georgia Hardstark [40:25]: "That's beautiful."

---

2. The Story of Amelia Earhart

Early Life and Aviation Aspirations

Amelia Earhart, born in July 1897 in Atchison, Kansas, exhibited an adventurous spirit from a young age. Despite a tumultuous family life, including her father's struggles with alcoholism, Amelia's determination led her to aviation. A near-fatal sledding accident at seven years old foreshadowed her fearless nature.

Karen Kilgariff [53:08]: "That condemned tomboy method saved my life."

Aviation Career and Achievements

Amelia's passion for flying ignited after attending a flying exhibition in Toronto, where she took her first airplane ride. By her early twenties, she had earned her pilot's license and quickly set records, becoming the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic in 1932. Her charismatic presence and relentless pursuit of aviation milestones earned her the nickname "Lady Lindbergh."

Georgia Hardstark [65:37]: "It's a legit mystery."

Marriage and Advocacy

In 1928, Amelia married George P. Putnam, a successful publisher who became her manager and staunch supporter. Their partnership not only advanced her career but also fueled her advocacy for women's rights in aviation. Amelia founded the "99s," the first organization for female pilots, reinforcing her commitment to empowering women in male-dominated fields.

Karen Kilgariff [68:25]: "Amelia's still alive. But he's had opportunities to have his DNA tested against the DNA in the blood drop from Kara Shoe, like by Innocence Project people, which matched his blood type. And he refuses to."

Final Flight and Disappearance

In 1937, Amelia embarked on her most ambitious journey: a solo, nonstop flight around the globe in a Lockheed Model 10 Electra. Despite meticulous planning, Amelia and her navigator Fred Noonan encountered severe weather near Howland Island in the Pacific Ocean. Communication issues plagued the flight, leading to their tragic disappearance on July 2, 1937.

Theories and Legacy

Numerous theories attempt to explain Amelia's fate, ranging from crash-landing at sea to possible capture by Japanese forces. Despite extensive searches, including deep-sea explorations up to 2024, no definitive evidence of her plane has been found. Amelia's legacy endures as a symbol of courage, pioneering spirit, and the relentless quest for exploration.

Karen Kilgariff [78:07]: "Because of the sheer size and depth of the Pacific, it hasn't been found."

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Notable Quotes

• Karen Kilgariff [23:00]: “I wish you could have known her. She was an angel.”
• Georgia Hardstark [22:43]: “He was like Flirting with her, maybe trying to ask her out.”
• Georgia Hardstark [65:37]: “It's a legit mystery.”
• Georgia Hardstark [30:27]: “She did this to me.”
• Karen Kilgariff [53:08]: “That condemned tomboy method saved my life.”
• Georgia Hardstark [78:07]: “Because of the sheer size and depth of the Pacific, it hasn't been found.”

---

Conclusion

Episode 474 of "My Favorite Murder" masterfully intertwines the harrowing tale of Kara Knott's unsolved murder with the legendary narrative of Amelia Earhart's disappearance. Through detailed accounts, forensic evidence, and personal reflections, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark honor the memories of the affected individuals while exploring the complexities of true crime and historical mysteries. This episode not only recounts tragic events but also emphasizes the enduring impact of these stories on communities and individuals alike.

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Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right. You know those commercials where a single impossibly shiny car glides down a beautiful winding country road with a horse running along a fence?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah, that's not real life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. But Hyundai's available class exclusive advanced safety features are designed for the roads we actually drive on, helping to keep you and your family protected.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hyundai vehicles are equipped with a standard driver attention warning system, which constantly monitors your attention levels.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Learn more about Hyundai at Hyundai USA or call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's H Y U N d a I usa.com or call 562-314-4603. Goodbye.

[Unknown]

Asking the right questions can greatly impact your future, especially when it comes to your finances. So if you're looking for a financial advisor you can trust, certified financial planner professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. That's why it's gotta be a CFP. Find your CFP professional at letsmakeaplan.org PayPal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Lets you pay all your pals, like your graduation gifters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who's paying for the mattress topper? You mean the beanbag chair? Aren't we getting a mini fridge? Can we create a pool on PayPal? It lets us collect the money before we buy. Ooh, yes, that's smart. Glad we can agree on something easily. Pool split and Send money with PayPal. Get started. In the PayPal app, a PayPal account is required to send and receive money. A balance account is required to create a pool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello, and welcome to my favorite murderer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Georgia Hardstart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Karen Kilkeriff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're just here to talk about a couple personal things that we're gonna get right into. Crime.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We are. You guys love true crime.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You love hearing about it vis a vis our pov.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, omg, that was lol.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's tbd.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, you were just telling me something, and I told you to hold it for the podcast because I can't believe it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So we have a senior accountant, HR person, kind of like office guru Giovanna. And she came to me the other day because we get to go to Chicago with our friends at iheartradio for the podcast movement. And it's like kind of a podcast weekend that we get to go to. And Jovana came in and said, I don't like that you and Georgia fly on the same plane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That is so bananas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I go, no, no. That's how we do it. It's like. And then she goes, no, no, no. You should not be on the same plane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Co owners of a business, probably. Right. And co owners, co hosts of a podcast that's like, next level, though. We've level up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Made it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We've made it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've made it, my friend. Deet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who's it gonna be? Whose plane's going, oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't that crazy? I was like, that's so wild. Cause at first I was like, that's so dark. And then I was like, that's for the C suite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's for the execs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey. That's so. I just can't. That boggles my mind. So who's changing flights?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So see you later? Well, what I said is Georgia and Vince love to go on, like, the first flight out often.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's no problem for me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a later flight you could totally take.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And I sometimes have had to. Cause I missed the flight you guys were on. That's happened before also. The last time when we flew to Austin, I walked on and you literally had to reach out to touch me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To say hi, because you were walking past me. And you, like, wouldn't even.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'd have to go into my airport tube.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or I, like, really lose it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like I was in the tube from wherever. I was sitting near the Guy Fieri Cafe or whatever. Like, I get myself mentally to walk up, give my ticket, walk on, find my seat, and I'm like, I'm not here to make friends.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Otherwise you'll end up, like, on the wrong plane sitting next to fucking Guy Fieri himself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or, like, making eye contact with a guy that looks like Guy Fieri. And then I'm in a silent fight, and I don't know why.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. You know what I did? That reminds me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then you're like, hey, you know me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know what I did? So over the weekend, Vince and I went to Vegas really quickly, just for a thing. And then we were going back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Say what you were doing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We went with his niece, who's in the FBI, to a hockey game. Like Detroit Red Wings hockey, to arrest the star forward. Yes. And we were. Okay. We took Jet Suite X, which is, like, a quick trip from Burbank. It's, like, really easy. And, like, fucking. Yeah. She. She pinkies out, rag. But.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But not crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not crazy. It's really not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. And it's. Yeah. Fucking Lisa Vanderpump was on my flight in the fucking waiting area, and I was, like, freaking out. Cause I love that show. And so I Did this thing that later my friends told me every fucking celebrity knows about, which is I pretended to take a selfie and just took a photo of her instead. And they were like, she knew what you were doing. I'm like, no, no. I was so subtle. And, like, I was smiling and doing a peace sign, like I was taking a selfie. And they were like, no. Yeah, she hates you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, she hates you forever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, she had a dog with her. It was just. The whole experience was amazing. I think she, like, owns shares in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jsx, so probably she. She has to show up once a month to, like, get the selfies out there. There's no way she doesn't like having her picture taken that way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, she looked incredible at, like, 11am on a Sunday.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what is she originally like from. Why would she get a reality show?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Real Housewives. She's a. Oh, og. Real Housewives of la, I think. Which I never watched, but then I started watching Vanderpump Rules, and I'm just obsessed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So, yeah, some crazy stuff happens in the later season.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's actually, like, not a piece of shit, which is like, you know, you'd see in Real Housewives.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's kind of nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I've seen a couple clips of her. She seems really smart and really. Well, she's a British lady making. Making it in America. Can I just really quickly explain, because we are on video. Listeners, you don't have to worry about this. Viewers, my apologies. I dyed my roots this morning, and then only when I'd mixed up the color was about to apply it did I realize I don't have any plastic gloves. So it looks a little wild.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It looks like even gardening, which is nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Except for that I haven't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just say you've been gardening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because that sounds like, classy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It doesn't look classy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have you ever tried taking plastics, like zip bags, like sandwich bags, and put. I've done that. It works a little bit. You just put your hands in plastic baggies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. At least it's something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just didn't even think about it at all because I was like, I just need to get this on my roots and get out of here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hairspray sometimes helps a little. Cover your hands in hairspray. Because I've done that many times, including with pink. So I had bright pink fucking hands and I was supposed to be on video that day. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you spray the shit out of your hands with hairspray and then wipe it Off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, I'll try that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was also thinking, because I have dawn dish detergent, which seems to be a part of every recipe of getting stains up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It cleans oil off ducks. It's got a clean fucking dye after everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It can clean ducks. It can clean these shit hands.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have a book.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That I'm so excited about. So my friend Jane Borden wrote a book about cults.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yes. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know her. I'm so impressed in a way that was like, oh, no, I can't hang out with her again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no, she's great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's so too smart for me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You gotta aim high. You gotta get those people around you that get you going.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I think about all the things I've said in front of her and I'm like, oh, no. It's called Cults Like Us. Why Doomsday Thinking Drives America. I fucking love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is basically about cult thinking and how it drives America. Starting with the original American or US Cult, the Puritans.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So impressed. I think it's going to be really good for people who grew up very religious and are questioning it or have, you know, transitioned out of it and kind of want some.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Somewhere to go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And, like, something to show them that they were right about it. Like, so if you have a friend or a sister like that, I highly recommend Cults Like Us by Jane Borden. It's gonna make you smarter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm definitely gonna read that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a fucking hot take.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And just a little insider information I basically inserted myself into when Kurt Bronnler and Scotty Landis were writing the pilot for one of Kurt's old pilots. And Jane was one of the writers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't have a job at the time, so I was like, well, I'll swing by and just like, kind of like went and wrote along with them. It's really hilarious. But she was actually the other official writer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. She's awesome. Yeah. You got anything?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I think let's just get into business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's do it. We have a podcast network that's just growing every day in every possible way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every way. We launched the Knife last week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so exciting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so great. It's doing so great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those guys really rule. Please listen to it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Please do. So here's some highlights from our network. Over on Dear Movies. I Love youe, Millie and Casey are diving into the brilliant brain of Bong Joon Ho from his past work, like Parasite and the host, like, come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you haven't seen the movie the Host. It's so great. It's like an adventure monster movie from Korea. So good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To his brand new film, Mickey 17. And they're joined by comedian and film obsessive. This guy is the best unsung. He's one of the funniest fucking comedians I've ever seen. And a friend, Josh Fadem.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Josh Fadem should be more famous than all the comics.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was in Better Call Saul as like the weird videographer guy. And he was also the lawyer in 30 Rock. And it's like fucking star turn. He's just so good. Yeah. So check out Dear Movies, I love you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also Josh Vadem's on TikTok now. He has like a. He put together like this talk show that he's doing. Yeah, he's out there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then over on Ghosted by Roz Hernandez. Roz stumbles through a secret trapdoor and lands directly in the presence of Bridger Weininger, the writer, actor and host of I said no Gifts. They talk about the legendary 90s pseudo doc alien Autopsy. Remember that when they were like, we've got a body and we're gonna do an autopsy on it. It was all fake. And a bunch of other spooky st. They're just a couple pals getting spooky.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it. I love the erm crossover this week on the Knife's companion show. Off record, it's like their mini. They take you behind the scenes of making a true crime podcast. And Patia shares the details. This is fucking such a great episode of a Missing Person's case in Tennessee. If you are like me and you like cold cases getting solved and you have a theory about it, I'm not going to give it away. Oh my God, this episode's so fucking good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And it's something Pasha researched and like discovered on her own. It's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm so glad they got to put it out. Like, yeah. Oh, thank God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's amazing. And it's really great because the Knife is the main episode are those, you know, deep dive interview shows. It takes a long time to assemble. It's like, it's a lot of work. So off record is basically their rest in between shows where they're like, you can write in, ask questions, make comments, say, hey, that was my aunt's neighbor type of stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like a talk back show. But then they get to talk about the stories that are too short to be a full episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Which they are still obsessed with. I mean, I'm so fucking happy they're on our network. Nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very proud.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Please follow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're proud of all of our podcasts and especially this podcast will kill you. They have had this amazing four part pregnancy series and they're wrapping it up this week with a big picture look at how childbirth has changed over the past century.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fascinating.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And what those changes mean for new parents. They explore the fourth trimester, which is one of the most common, least discussed postpartum conditions, which is postpartum depression.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can listen wherever you get your podcast or you can watch that entire series on our YouTube channel over at YouTube.com exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Media. Please follow that as well. And While you're on YouTube, don't forget to check out I said no Gifts. Bridger's five year anniversary special. It's now up. It's featuring the delightfully chaotic Chris Fleming. He's so funny. It's two hours of betrayal celebration and special surprises. Watch it at your desk while you're being paid to work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I dare you. Available now at that's right, YouTube.com exactlyrightmedia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It'S such a delightful episode. I watched a couple minutes and Bridger's wearing the most insane outfit and his white gift gloves. I love it. And Chris Fleming is just sitting over there being the ultimate talk show guest. It's really a delight. And finally, do, do, do we have a merch update. Our iconic guy yourself mug which listeners, just so you know, in real life we're holding up right now for the viewer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So if you go to YouTube you can see us holding our adorable GA fuck yourself mug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck yourself and old Fashioned Las Vegas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So old Fashioned Las Vegas. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So we re released it for episod of rewind and we're gonna do it again because you loved it so much that I think they sold out. So we're re releasing it. This was designed by the amazing Ginni and Tonic. J I N I and Tonic. And they're available now@the exactlyrightstore.com Georgia. Have you ever had one of those nights where you're just staring at the ceiling willing yourself to sleep?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Actually yeah. Last night and the night before that and the life before that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's what makes Beam's Dream powder so exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Insomnia. Girlies like me know that magnesium, L theanine and melatonin are the secret to getting a good night's sleep. I have been taking these ingredients on the their own for years. So now they're in one delicious packet. Like, that's all I need.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A nice hot drink and you're out. Here's the deal. Beam is giving our listeners their best offer yet. For a limited time, try their best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

That'S shop b.com murder and use code murder for up to 40% off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Start getting your best sleep tonight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. Hey, Karen. I want you to picture yourself going for a drive. What comes to mind?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not ever being able to merge on any freeway in Los Angeles. And potholes. And crying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah. Well, the truth is the road can feel like it's out to get you at every turn. But Karen, it doesn't have to be this way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because Hyundai's available advanced safety technology is designed to help keep you protected from all of life's twists and turns.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Their vehicles offer available features designed to help safeguard you and your loved ones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can change lanes with confidence thanks to the available blind spot view monitor which actually shows you a live video feed of your blind spots.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The standard forward collision avoidance assist can help prevent or mitigate accidents by alerting you of imminent collision. Oh my God. This happens to me all the time. And automatically applying the brakes if you don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is needed. Hyundai vehicles are equipped with the standard driver attention warning system which constantly monitors your attention levels. I oh my God. Once detected, it sounds, alerts and visual cues to help bring your focus back to the road.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, get this for me right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With available class exclusive safety features, Hyundai helps to keep you safe so you can enjoy the drive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Learn more about [e-mail] or call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's H Y U N d a I usa.com or call 562-314-4603. Goodbye.

[Unknown]

Asking the right questions can greatly impact your future, especially when it comes to your finances. So if you're looking for a financial advisor you can trust, certified financial planner professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. That's why it's got to be a CFP. Find your CFP [e-mail].

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. This is one of those stories that I just kept adding stuff to and wanting to research more until like I literally had to stop to go and get in the shower to get ready for the recording.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I am so like, this case is, ah, it gives me chills. It has been burning my head since I saw it 20 something fucking years ago on Forensic Files.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you'll probably remember it too. Today's story is a SoCal hometown that I remember from my childhood. As well as that Forensic Files. It's a chilling case from the 1980s, one that could have easily slipped through the cracks, turning into a cold case. But instead, something incredible happened. Dozens of women, trusting their instincts came forward and they brought the truth to light and helped bring down a monster and take a potential serial killer off the streets. This is the story of the murder of Kara Knott. K N O T T. The main sources for the story are a 2004 episode of Forensic Files and reporting from the Escondido Daily Times Advocate by David Ogle. And the rest can be found in the show notes. So it's December 1986. We're in the San Diego area. Kara Knott is 20 years old and she's a junior at San Diego State University. She's super smart. She graduated with honors from high school. She runs track. She's studying to be a teacher. Just a fucking good person. Kara has been with her boyfriend Wayne since they were in high school. They're very much in love. Wayne also goes to San Diego State. And everyone who knows them say they're a beautiful couple. Over the school's winter break, Kara and Wayne each go home to their families in Southern California in the San Diego area. But Wayne comes down with the flu. And so on December 26, Kara goes to visit him in Escondido, driving from her family's home in El Cajon. It's about a 40 minute drive. And while she's at Wayne's, Kara repeatedly calls her mother for advice about how to take care of a sick person. Which is so like, I'm 20 and I'm still learning about life kind of a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It just immediately made me think of this time my parents were on vacation. I had to call my Aunt Jean and ask her, how long you thaw a turkey?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because we were trying to do a like friends giving.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And my friend had like a 25 pound turkey. And she was like, oh, you should probably take that out about 12 hours before. And we were like, oh, we're supposed to serve it in four hours.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you just don't know a life yet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You just don't know what you're doing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like the first time I went to like pump my own gas, I was like, fuck, I don't know how to fucking do this. Like, I just realized I don't know how to do this. Where's the button? So it's just like this little detail that like kind of breaks your heart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also puts you in this time, you know, 1986, I was 16 years old. And so Kiara was at college. Not new to college, like, but. Right. So she's a little bit more adult than the average.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, she's been in a long term relationship, so she's not like probably partying or anything like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also like so many people from Northern California, you go to San Diego State and that's like you're really busting out and you're on your own.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thing about it is it's very California in the 80s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. She stays over that night and hangs out with Wayne all day the next day. And it's his family home as well, so she takes care of him. And by the Evening of the 27th, Wayne is starting to feel better and Kara decides to head home to her family house. She calls her parents at about 8pm and tells them she's about to hit the road. That time of night with light traffic, she should be home before 9pm, not more than an hour. But by 10pm, the normally punctual Kara still isn't home. And her father Sam. Sam Knott, has a horrible feeling that something is very wrong. Kara's parents call Wayne. He says he hasn't heard from her since she left at 8. And so the dad gets in the car to drive the whole freeway between his home and Wayne's house in Escondido to look for Kara. You know, maybe she just ran out of gas or something happened to her car. There's no cell phones, so it's possible, Right. At the same time, Kara's mother starts calling every hospital and police station along the route to see if there had been an accident. Which has to be every parent's fucking nightmare.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Friends and family join in the search with Sam the father. And as the police say, they can't do anything at the moment. Which is one of those you have to wait 24 hours. And I feel like nowadays a missing 20 year old college student driving. Hopefully that doesn't happen anymore, but we don't know. I don't think it's. I don't think so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hopefully it's gone the way of. They're just a runaway, waited out that whole thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or she'll come home when she's ready. Yeah, that kind of thing. The family and friends search team check every exit for over eight hours. Right around dawn, they find Kara's car. It's a white VW bug. And the picture of it sitting in this desolate area was seared into my mind in this forensic files. The car is at a bottom of an off ramp off the i15, which is pretty desolate. It's just about the midway point between Escondido and el Cajon, about 20 miles from each. The freeway at that point runs over an overpass and the off ramp leads down to a, like, sparsely wooded area. There's nothing around. It's not like there's gas stations and stuff. It's kind of very remote. It's a desolate spot. And her white beetle looks completely out of place in the photo. Yeah, back then, I'm sure it's all built up in the area now, but there were some desolate spots along the road.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In Southern California, Kara's car is found with the driver's seat window rolled halfway down. Her purse is on the front seat. Her keys are in the ignition, which is super suspicious. There's also a receipt from a gas station about 15 miles further north on the freeway. So not far from where she had left in Escondido. At this point, with her car being found, San Diego police and California Highway Patrol officers arrive at the scene and they begin searching the area. About two hours later, they make a devastating discovery in a dry, dusty creek bed at the bottom of a 70 foot bridge. Not far from where her car had been left. Kara's body has been found seemingly tossed over the bridge. The photo of the bridge has stuck in my mind. It's one of those beautiful arching bridges, like super desolate. It doesn't it look like the place where in the 80s you would have gone in high school with your friends to go drink?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like it's one of those places.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then above on the road of the bridge, investigators see fresh tire marks and take impressions and photographs of those. So Kara's father, Sam, is on the scene when authorities discover his daughter's body. But he doesn't see her for himself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. He can tell though, that something has happened. And he approaches the Sheriff and asks if they found Kara. When the sheriff tells him they have and that she's dead, Sam says, quote, I wish you could have known her. She was an angel. End quote. I know. I almost cried writing this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a horrible thing to be there. Obviously, like, I gotta go out there and find my daughter. And then it's like, the worst possible. The worst possible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So for the first couple of days after Kara's death, police say they have some leads, but no suspects. Of course, Kara's boyfriend Wayne is looked into, but he's quickly ruled out because he hadn't left his family's home. Later, Wayne will tell a reporter, quote, we plan on being 90 years old together, 100 years old together, sitting in our little rocking chairs, two crotchety old fogies holding hands. I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every one of these stories is as heartbreaking as the last.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just. I don't know. It's just so sad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, totally. When Kara's body is examined, there are no signs of sexual assault. There are ligature marks around her neck, and there are two bruises on her face, one on her eyebrow and one on her cheek. The medical examiner rules her cause of death to have been strangulation. There's a little bit of other physical evidence recovered from Kara's body. A single drop of blood is found on her shoe that doesn't belong to her. It's 1986. So DNA isn't, you know, a thing that's available to everyone, but the blood type is tested, and it's AB positive, which is not her blood type, and it's one of the rarest blood types as well. Additionally, a single gold fiber is pulled off of Kara's sweatshirt. And it's unique in that it's been colored gold with a pigment rather than a dye, which is. So Forensic files back then, of. I can hear it narrated in my.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Head also that kind of thing where when another fascinating piece of, like, that kind of forensic investigation is that you think things are like, oh, if you're on the beach, it's just sand. It's just rocks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then it's like, no, no, no. Because the only, you know, silica is here and not there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All that stuff, like, you learn about how investigable some areas can be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Or like decomposition and bug life. And, I mean, it's fascinating.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's amazing. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And coloring fiber with this pigment is an antiquated technique that's very rarely used in 1986. So they know it's significant. And then investigators at the gas station Kara had gone to the attendants, remember seeing her pumping gas not long after 8pm they say she was alone. They didn't see her speak to anyone. And she drove off and she had.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A full tank of gas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it wasn't that, you know, exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was a little bit after Christmas, like December 27th and then through the end of the year and into January of 1987. The police say publicly that they're at and they ask the public for help in figuring out what happened to kara. And a $10,000 reward is issued by the family for information leading to an arrest, which in today's money, 50,030 close. San Diego Police also asked the public to call either their office or the Crime Stoppers tip line with any information that might help. The community around San Diego is understandably on edge after the seemingly unexplained murder of a college student who was just driving home. And we got a lot of emails from murderinos in email box of like, my mom, my grandma, that everyone was just like. Like San Diego was very quiet then and suburban and still is, I think. So it was just like terrified. Yeah. This is just unheard of. And then right after Kara's body is discovered, the local news runs a segment about what drivers can do to stay safe on the freeways at night. The reporter actually rides along with a California Highway Patrol officer who warns that drivers who have car trouble, especially at night, should stay in their car with the doors locked. He says, like, you know, women could get raped. Men could get mugged. It's. Or, you know, everyone could get murdered. It's like, very scary. You should stay in your car. Even if you spend the night. Don't, like, don't get out of your car. And then if someone approaches to help, the driver should ask that person to go get help rather than letting them help. And this is still to this day, something you should absolutely do. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's good advice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. He warns never to get in the car with someone else or to let another person in the car.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry. Someone has a story of, oh, it was our family friend Priscilla who. Her car broke down. I think it was in the rain. And she was like nine months pregnant or like eight months pregnant. And so this guy pulls up. No, no, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Zodiac Killer pulls up. Jesus Christ.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, it's the opposite. This guy's car's broken down in the rain. She pulls up and gets out to help him, and he goes, what are you doing? Get back in that car. Why would you do this? I love him. And screams of like, get out of here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's someone's dad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was like, why would you ever risk your life? Like, don't help men like this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't do it. Stay in your car. Yeah. And so this would all be very standard and unremarkable, this segment that this journalist made. But after this segment airs, something strange starts to happen over at the tip line that the police had opened up. People, especially women, start calling in and saying that that that same highway patrolman who had been in the news segment had pulled them over at the exact same exit where Kara's car had been found. And they say that this highway patrolman had pulled them over for like, mostly trivial things that didn't really warrant being pulled over off the freeway. For example, a murderino named Hannah had emailed in that her grandma had gotten a fix it ticket from this highway patrolman for a missing license plate. And he tried to meet up with her after to like get signed off so that she wouldn't get have to pay the ticket. And she was like, no, thank you, and got it signed by someone else. But like, he was like, it was him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This was like his strip of the highway, it seems. No men coming forward to say they also were pulled over. Right, Just a bunch of women.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. And this officer would direct them to exit the freeway at this place. It was called Mercy Road. In one instance, even having the driver reverse on the freeway against traffic to get and then told them to drive to the bottom of the secluded unlit off ramp where Kara's white beetle was found.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please tell me that in this modern day everybody hearing Georgia say that recognizes the insanity and would not do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then he actually had been questioned about this behavior. Like people in the department were aware of it, but he had been commended on it because he said he did it to avoid a potentially dangerous stop on the freeway. So one woman actually came forward and told the Times Advocate newspaper pretty much right after Kara's murder was reported that based solely on the location where her body was found, she thought that the person responsible was a California highway patrolman who had pulled her over nine months earlier. She's like, fuck, you know, she didn't know his name at the time she told the story. She says that he flashed his lights and used his loudspeaker to direct her down that same remote off ramp. And then once she was in that remote area, he started accusing her of driving a stolen vehicle. But she says his demeanor was strange. Like he was like Flirting with her, maybe trying to ask her out. And she says that then he abruptly let her go after a San Diego police car passed that spot. So suddenly he fucking skedaddled, man. I know. And this fucking badass chick was like, hello, excuse me, I have a story to tell. Yeah, that happened to me. So she tells this story through the paper and then she sees the ride along footage on TV of this highway patrolman and she's like, that is the fucking guy I told you about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's that psychopathic tendency where they're smarter than everybody and they can't let it go. They have to be the face of the thing. They have to be out in front playing this part and they basically get themselves caught.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He calmly was in this segment and you can watch it online, playing the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Part of the kindly peace officer that's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There to help, that's concerned about what's happening in his community. It's so creepy. And so, yeah, so she's sure it's the same guy. Double checks. She's like, this is him. So the man is 36 year old Craig Pyre, a 13 year veteran of the California Highway Patrol. And all told, about 30 women come forward saying that Peyer had pulled them over in that same spot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

30?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Count to 30 right now. Feel how many women that is. That it's wild. So bold.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Many of the women said that he proceeded to get in the passenger seat and try to question them when he pulled them over, but that the questions he asked were inappropriate and he was actually just sexually harassing them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then this is the creepiest, like, is this a movie? What are you talking about? Thing. A bunch of people point out that after a closer examination of the local news segment featuring Peyer, it appears that there are some scratches on his face. Oh, and this is days after Kara's murder. This segment had been shot very shortly after Kara's murder. And people suspect that those scratches were from Kara trying to defend herself. In the video, you can see scratches on his face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Imagine the 1986 murderinos that know all these things, but that are still to that point, like by themselves alone being like, I like a weird thing that I shouldn't be paying attention to what we all used to believe. And they're recognizing all of these things that like you would have to be reading a Gavin de Becker book or some Ann Rules stuff to really be aware of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they're just like cold chills being like, oh my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I'm sure. So many people called in and was like, why does he have scratches on his fucking face?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, can we see the rest of the footage? What else can we see in the rest of the footage?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. It's so chilling. And then also, Kara's mother, Joyce, comes forward to tell police that she and Kara had taken a self defense class recently. And one of the things they were taught was to scratch at an attacker's eyes. And the scratches are, like, right by his nose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I actually, like, text myself, sign up for a self defense class.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want to do one here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's a great idea.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wouldn't it be cool? Yeah, just like 7:00 one night, everyone's done with work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you want to stay for a self defense course. Hell yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It just kind of weekly, so it's kind of like working out a little bit, but then it's also like punching and kicking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh, I want to do it. I'll be here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you can believe it, I'm never here. I don't even have an office. Okay. So then on Friday, January 15, Craig Pyre is arrested for Kara's murder, which actually there's a murderino who's like, Peyer's wife was my mom's best friend, and she was at the fucking house when the police arrested the husband. And then they asked her to be a character witness for him at his trial, and she was like, hell fucking no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, what a nightmare. Like, you're living this life and you think you know exactly where everything's lined up and what's going on with everything. And just one day, there's a knock on the door and everything gets ripped apart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Your husband. Cause he had children from multiple marriages, and they had a young baby. Your husband is a monster.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nightmare.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nightmare. His neighbors are all utterly shocked when this story comes out. People who know him say he was extremely proud to be a highway patrolman, which we know is like wanting to involve yourself in law enforcement. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But actually passing the tests, which usually these stories are about people that want to do that, can't pass the test and then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right, right. Yeah. I mean, those are the ones we know about, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How many we don't know about. I mean, and they said it was a huge part of his personality. And of course, the women who Peyer pulled over on the highway are not surprised or shocked at all to hear about him. Right. You know, the neighbors are. These women are like, he gave me the ick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and also, why do I have to say out loud that it gave me the Ick. To get pulled over off the highway down into a fucking ravine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, it's like the first time that got reported. He should have been removed from the entire area. Absolutely. What could you have been doing?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then you did it 30 minimum. 30 times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm yelling at you. So irritating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, it's fine. You're exactly right. So Craig Pyre's log from the night of Kara's disappearance shows him making a traffic stop in a totally different area at the exact time Kara is killed. Of course. But surprise, surprise. It's written in pencil, and the entry has clearly been erased and rewritten. And the people who he did actually pull over at that time were like. Like that wasn't what time it was. And he was disheveled and something was wrong, like. So on examination of Pyer's patrol car, the distance, you know, the tires match up, essentially, blah, blah, blah. Forensic investigators match the gold fiber on Cara sweatshirt to the embroidery thread that was used to make the gold border on the California Highway Patrol shoulder patch on Pyre's uniform.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I remember that part of the Forensic Files episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Craig Pyre's blood type is AB positive. Same as the drop that was on Kara's shoe. You know, it goes on and on. It's just clear. So police believe, essentially, that Peyer had seen Kara filling up her car with gas at the station near Escondido. And I bet that was his stocking point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, you're a fucking lion and you're looking for your prey. Like, I bet he stayed there until at night. Women alone in a car. And then followed them to this spot. Well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause you get out, you have to pump the gas. You have to walk around. So it's just like they're on parade for him to be picked up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. It's just so chilling. And then that he followed her until they neared his preferred remote off ramp. And then he likely did what he had done to all the other women. Flashed his lights, used his loudspeaker to direct her off the ramp. And then they believed that Pyer tried to get in the car with Kara or harass her. Remember, her window is halfway down. She's like, yes, officer. And she possibly refused to let him in or threatened to report him or some combination of that. And they believe that Pyre ordered Kara out of the car, and Kara fought back after. Possibly he touched or threatened Kara in some way, and she fought, which is just incredible. And at that point, she scratched his face. And the thought is that he hit her twice in the face with his flashlight and then killed her by strangling her with some rope he had in his trunk. And then he did so to deny or cover up anything she could have said, which is fuck you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, fuck you. Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Peyer is tried in 1988. His first trial results in a hung jury. Don't fucking ask. He's retried, found guilty of first degree murder, and sentenced to life in prison. He has always maintained his innocence. He's still alive. But he's had opportunities to have his DNA tested against the DNA in the blood drop from Kara Shoe, like by Innocence Project people, which matched his blood type. And he refuses to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not good for me that day. I can't make it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, this. My cheek hurts. You can't swab it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm so sorry. Inside where that one vein is, my vein hurts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can't pluck my hair. Let's just keep going. With DNA possibilities.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, but also, that to me, and I could be wrong about this, but by memory, psychopaths also never admit. That's the whole thing, is that. That. That idea is. Oh, I'm not gonna admit it. I'm gonna continue to quote, unquote, trick you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, he's probably also like, no, you can't take my DNA because you'll plant it. You know what I mean? Like, he just will. Deny, deny, deny. Yeah, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's had the opportunity to apply for parole, but each time has refused to answer why he won't give his DNA. And so far, he's been denied each time. And he'll be eligible again in 2027 when he is 77 years old. So let's stop talking about him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay? Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Kara's father, Sam, lobbied to get the desolate area where his beloved daughter's body had been so callously discarded. He lobbied to have that area dedicated as the Kara Knott Memorial Oak Garden. Which it was, and then he changed it to the San Diego Crime Victims Memorial Garden. It's. This is fucking rough. His aim, according to findagrave.com was to, quote, turn the bleak wasteland where Kara died into a flourishing nature. Pres. Dedicated to Kara and fellow crime victims. He did succeed, as the small garden has flourished into, according to hiddensandiego.com, quote an oasis where the lives of dozens of victims of crime and violent death are commemorated. End quote. But tragically, in 2000, at the age of 63, Sam, Kara's father, suffers a fatal heart attack while he is at the memorial site attending a memorial for Kara, and it's not far from where she was killed 14 years earlier.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he dies there, too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have a heart attack, which is just a broken heart. Yeah, right, right. Kara's family, including her mother, Joyce, and three siblings, continue to fight for victims rights, including working with law enforcement to create better ways of keeping track of their officers while on duty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very good idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Huge. And also to keep her killer behind bars. They also donate the acorns from the native oak that Sam had planted and dedicated to Kara at the flourishing memorial site to nonprofit groups to plant and grow their own memorial trees. So her trees are growing all over the country. I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's beautiful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And it's like this, like, beautiful, serene place where you can go as a memorial garden. Yeah, let's turn it into that. Sam is buried next to Kara at the Singing Hills Memorial park in El Cajon, California. Her headstone reads, quote, you are our morning and evening star now. You are stardust and will live forever. End quote. And that is the story of the murder of Kara Knott.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. Great job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is a tough one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I hadn't covered this, even though it's been in my head for so long, because it just seemed so small and simple and sad and awful. But I feel like this stuff at the end with her family and father just felt right to share.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I think you're so right, and I do think that it's sad. There's 40 years of forensic files. We get to be talking about a million cases. That is, I think, why people talk through true crime. It's like there's the things that are the exact same. Then there's the things of, like, listening and watching for how they catch people. Listening and watching for what? You should keep your eye out for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How many women have not pulled over on the side of the freeway or in a dusty or have known to get off the freeway to go in a public place when getting pulled over or stayed in their car with their doors locked when they needed help because they watched this episode and because of Kara's story. I bet there are people who are alive today because they knew and know Kara's story and will forever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. For sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Georgia, have you ever had one of those nights where you're just staring at the ceiling, willing yourself to sleep?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Actually, yeah. Last night. Night and the night before that and the life before that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Insomnia. Girlies like me know that magnesium, L theanine and melatonin are the secret to getting a good night's sleep. I have been taking these ingredients on their own for years, so now they're in one delicious packet. Like, that's all I need.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

That's shop b e a m.com murder and use code murder for up to 40% off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Start getting your best sleep tonight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. Goodbye. Hey, Karen. I want you to picture yourself going for a drive. What comes to mind?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not ever being able to merge on any freeway in Los Angeles. And potholes. And crying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah. Well, the truth is the road can feel like it's out to get you at every turn. But Karen, it doesn't have to be this way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because Hyundai's available advanced safety technology is designed to help keep keep you protected from all of life's twists and turns.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Their vehicles offer available features designed to help safeguard you and your loved ones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can change lanes with confidence thanks to the available Blind Spot view monitor, which actually shows you a live video feed of your blind spots.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The standard forward collision avoidance assist can help prevent or mitigate accidents by alerting you of imminent collision. Oh my God. This happens to me all the time. And automatically applying the brakes if you don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is needed. Hyundai vehicles are equipped with the standard driver attention warning system which constantly monitors your attention levels. Oh my God. Once detected, it sounds alerts and visual cues to help bring your focus back to the road.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, get this for me right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With available class exclusive safety features, Hyundai helps to keep you safe so you can enjoy the drive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Learn more about [e-mail] or call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's H Y U N d a I usa.com or call 562-314-4603. Goodbye.

[Unknown]

Asking the right questions can greatly impact your future, especially when it comes to your finances. So if you're looking for a financial advisor you can trust, certified financial planner professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. That's why it's got to be a CFP. Find your CFP professional at letsmakeaplan.org.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, great job. That was really good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And really sad. And then also really like. I do think it is interesting, like you naming old forensic files, and it's like, Yep, I know that one. I have these stories in my head.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They don't go anywhere, which is why we talk about them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. It's interesting. It's sad. I'm gonna turn it around. Great. I've got a 180.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I would love a 180.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, great. Because Women's History Month just ended this week, and yet it feels to me like we should continue remembering women.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shouldn't we?

[Karen Kilgariff]

In case we're wiped off the face of the planet here in America.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, in case we're Handmaid's tailed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's so much going on in the world, and I think talking about the women whose shoulders we all stand on is a good idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No matter what the story is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Definitely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I like the idea that, you know, sometimes there's people who listen to our podcast and they do have their young daughters in the backseat. Here's a story you can let them listen to. We'll try not to say the F word very much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna try. Let's see if I can get through.

[Karen Kilgariff]

An entire story without cursing or without saying fuck. Okay, you just said it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I'm gonna tell you the story today of an American icon who, by boldly chasing her dreams, made an indelible imprint on our culture. But despite her extraordinary life, she's most famous for the mysterious circumstances surrounding her death, arguably one of recent history's greatest unsolved mysteries. For nearly a century, searchers have tried to force a satisfying conclusion to her story, and they've always come up short. But because all the focus has been on how she died, the way she lived, including her many accomplishments, and her advocacy, is often forgotten. So today, I'm gonna tell you the story of pioneering aviator Amelia Earhart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Right. Oh, my God. I've been, like, following the stories. I just always click on the stories of. They think they found this. They think they found that. Here's the next. Like, I cannot not click on those.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Cause it's fascinating. It's like, they have to find something someday that's conclusive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a legit mystery. Okay, tell me everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so the sources for this story today are writer Doris L. Rich's book, a biography, Amelia Earhart, which is a primary. There's also a PBS documentary series that's American Experience, that's all about her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking love American Experience. It's one of the best shows if.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'Re just looking for something. If, like, if you've an empty day and you're trying to feel enriched while still being completely entertained, American Experience will do the job for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I don't care if you don't give a shit about the fucking dust bowl. You'll be fascinated by the dust bowl while you do your nails.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I have to say home gym. I was raised by my father forcing me to watch PBS material and so furious. Where he'd be like, right after Happy Days would end, he'd be like, turn it over. Let's see what's on pbs. And then we'd have to watch an opera. We'd have to watch Carl Sagan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And is it a coincidence that you're here owning your own fucking business today? Probably not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Probably not. I think PBS enriched my life. Did my father ever give them a dime in donations? Not only. Not once, and I'm sure he'll do this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He sued them for money. Oh, no. What if he sued PBS for damages?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

My mom would always, like, walk through and he'd be watching something and really enjoying it. You know, like a documentary on the Automat or whatever. Had to watch that the last time I went home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But my mom would always go, jim, you have to give them money. And he would go, bullshit. They're not getting a dime out of me. And that was like his proud stance. And he refused to give them money. It's the ultimate. Like he's gonna finally rip somebody else off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? You're fighting the wrong fight, bro.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Meanwhile, he has absolutely given them money. And it was just a bit. Basically, he's doing to piss my mama.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Phew.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's not really a douchebag, cuz. Truly, the Kilgarra family has gotten their absolute fill from people from.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How many tote bags do you guys have from them? That's how you know that's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. So anyway, there's also a two part National Geographic podcast called Overheard. Did you know there was a National Geographic podcast? No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I also. Sorry. This should go up into the top. But since we didn't do it. I'll just say it now on TikTok. This morning, I learned that the Southern Poverty Law center has just launched their own podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just at the beginning of this month. And it just covers all the stories, all of the things that they're like. Basically, them fighting for Americans in every way. The fact that they've been doing it for 100 years, all these things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm not giving them a dime. No kidding. Should we give them $10,000?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's do it. Let's do it. That's a great idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll give them money on our side. Listener, you go listen to the Southern Poverty Law Center's podcast, get them some.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Numbers, share it with friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get that thing going. Because it sounded great. The little, like, clip and what I heard, I was, like, so excited that they're starting that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing. Great. That feels great. Now let's start your story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good vibes. Jesus Christ. Now to the story. Here's my writing when I go in and edit Maren's writing. The story of Amelia Earhart's story begins in late July of 1897. She was born in the northeast corner of Kansas in a town called Atchison. It looks like it's, I would guess, two hours north of Kansas City.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Way up there in the Corner, there's the AmeliaAirheart.org website, and they have a museum there that I think is built in her house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But they have the best tote bags that I'm absolutely gonna get.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's weird. That just I brought up. Tote bag.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. Because I was just looking on the website, and it's just a painting of the house. And that's the tote bag.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. We all need those martorinos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's. Yeah, let's buy all the merch at the Amelia Earhart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's how you can spot a merino in the wild at the farmer's market, is if she's a. Oh, I said the F word. Which is a random Amelia Earhart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm still on page one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stop it. Stop it. I've had too much fucking rose. Let's go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Let's really focus on what we're supposed to be doing. Okay, so she's born in Atchison in July of 1897. Her father, Edwin, is a lawyer from humble beginnings. Her mom, Amy, comes from a very prominent local family. And a fun fact, actually, like a badass fact. Amy Earhart was the first woman to hike to the top of Pikes Peak. Wow, in Colorado.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she's from adventuring. DNA makes sense. So things aren't always smooth sailing for the Earhart family. Edwin has good and bad years financially. He takes job opportunities wherever they come. We later learned that it's cuz he's an alcoholic. And that's the way my mom grew up, where it's like he does good for a little while, he's a lawyer and then he blows it and then has to, and then goes off the wagon and then has to dry out again. I can't say that that's exactly what happened in this family, but I'm recognizing it. From what my mom told me about when you have like the long term alcoholic that then gets better for a long time and then goes back, it's awful. So they move around a ton. And then when Amelia isn't moving around with her parents and they're just trying to go get him another job, she stays for long stretches at her grandparents home. So Amelia does have a younger sister named Muriel. They're just about two years apart, so they're very, very close. And they're not your typical turn of the century girls because like of course at the time girls had to wear long skirts. But Amelia and Muriel spend their weekends in bloomers because it's easier to play in. Them love it. And these girls love playing. Amelia is the daring ringleader and she can often be found with her little sister climbing over fences, shooting rifles, collecting bugs. Doris L. Rich, Amelia Earhart's biographer, writes about an incident when Amelia is seven years old and Muriel is four and they are going sledding. So Amelia is about to head down a big snowy hill. So she does something most little girls would be conditioned not to do. Instead of sitting up on the sled and holding like the string like that, she lays down on her stomach, she pushes face first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You gotta go face first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Face first, just do it. So she pushes off, she starts racing down the hill, flying down, and then she sees here comes a horse drawn carriage that's coming directly down her path. Across her path I should say. She starts yelling out to the driver cuz she can't stop. So she's yelling, but he can't hear her, he can't see her. So up on the top of the hill mural is watching her sister as she is about to crash in. So Amelia at the same time is like, I'm about to die. So instead of panicking, what she does is she puts her head down as low as she can and somehow the timing works out perfectly. And she just goes right under the wagon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like Christmas vacation when they go under the fucking semi truck. Yes, exactly like that. Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or like when I was about six years old and I was riding my bike in front of my parents and their friends, and I went up in the O'Hara's big old gravel driveway that was like a quarter of a mile long. And I was coming back down, racing back down. And my parents can hear a car that's going 80 miles an hour.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they watch as I just go directly in front of the car. Like, the car's going so fast it didn't have time to put on the brakes. So I just went, shh, shh, like that. And as I came into our driveway, my dad just picked me up off my bike and slapped me on the ass. And I ran into the house. They never spanked us. And he, like, basically, they all thought they were gonna watch me die.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Amelia Earhart style pet cemetery, right? Oh, my God, for real?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so basically, she goes under, she comes out unscathed. And when she finally comes to a stop, Amelia jumps up and smiles and waves at her sister. And years later, she looks back on this moment and she'll say, quote, that condemned tomboy method saved my life. Had I been sitting up, either my head or the horse's ribs would have suffered in contact. Probably the horse's ribs. So by Amelia's teenage years, she's attended so many different schools that she basically doesn't have any friends at all. In one of her yearbooks, this makes me so sad. There's a photo of her, and the caption reads, quote, a, E, the girl in brown who walks alone. Just like. Cause you have this fuck up dad, right? You're gonna have to leave anyway, so you might as well not get to know people at home. Amelia's father's developed a serious drinking problem. I spoiled that one. But he struggles to hold down any job. PBS reports. Quote, amelia adored her father, but he let her down so often. She learned early on to be self reliant.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yikes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she starts keeping a scrapbook with cutouts of newspaper and magazine articles about women with successful careers that are in traditionally male only fields. It's like she's proving to herself that she can find success without relying on a man and manifesting that future for herself. Essentially, when she graduates high school, it's the thick of World War I. So she drops out of finishing school. They sent her to finishing school.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Finish what, dude?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Finish walking around with a book on your head?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Finish this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she leaves to go tend to wounded soldiers in Canada, which is so badass. She's like, thanks for the manners lessons. I've got to actually go do something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How about gut fuck yourself?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gut fuck yourself. I'm gonna work with the Red Cross.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

During this time, she briefly considers a career in medicine. And then one day, she goes to a flying exhibition in Toronto and she watches a stunned pilot do their tricks in a colorful plane. And she's captivated. She'll later say, quote, I did not understand at the time, but I believe that little red airplane said something to me as it swished by. Oh, it's just such a cool. I never thought about this. And I'm sure that my sister has, like, books that she's read aloud to her class that's like Amelia Earhart that. I'm sure she knows all the details, but I've never, like, really thought about that fact of, like, when women are born early and they go through life with, like, say, an adventurer spirit in a time where they're like, you better put that skirt on and go to finishing school. It's almost luckier that she had to move around a bunch and had, like, an irregular family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, her dad wasn't paying attention and enforcing rules so she could kind of get away with a lot more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was kind of like, yeah, fuck it, because what am I gonna do? Go to finishing school, find a man, and then have this happen to me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, I'm gonna go do my thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, like, can we just props to the baby sister, the younger sister who's always, like, she doesn't get enough credit. Like, the older sister always gets credit of, like, she showed her how to do it. But, like, if you didn't have someone to show how to do it, I'm clearly giving up. It's about us. It's us. It's about us. But, like, if you didn't have someone to show off to, then what would you have done?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You would have never had that adventurous spirit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you didn't have a baby crying and saying, I need to go to the bathroom all the time, there would be nothing to fight against.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you're welcome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're welcome, Laura and Leah and lee. So by 1920, Amelia's 23 years old. She's living back with her parents again. They're now in Southern California, so they really have moved all over the place. One day, her dad takes her to an event at a Long beach airfield. Once again, Amelia's transfixed by the Stunt pilot. So this was like a big thing that was happening at the time. She sees they're offering plane rides for the low price of $5 each.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a lot of money worth about today. What year?

[Karen Kilgariff]

20. 20. 20.

[Georgia Hardstark]

20.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

20.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Plain old 20.

[Georgia Hardstark]

19. 20.

[Karen Kilgariff]

19. 20 is what I should have said. Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's $5 in 19. Oh, that's a lot of money. I'm gonna go 60, 80. Very close, but 80 bucks, that's fuck ton of money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She somehow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, God, I did it again. I'm so bad about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just. It's a fudge. It's a fudge worth of money. So she somehow collects up and gets that money. A couple days later, she goes back to the airfield and she takes a ride for the first time in a plane. And she will later say, quote, as soon as we left the ground, I knew I had to fly. A little quote within the quote says, I think I'd like to fly. I told my family casually that evening, knowing full well I'd die if I didn't. Oh, she's like her dream.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's her passion.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's beautiful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So a year later, Amelia meets with a young female pilot named Netta Snook. The best name of all time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Netta's an aviation pioneer in her own right, and she agrees to teach Amelia how to fly. She's charging a dollar a minute, which would be basically $16aminute in today's money. So it would be like paying $960 for an hour's flying lesson.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's very expensive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Snooki's after it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Snooki's like, hey, then go find another woman to teach you how to fly a plane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So to pay for her lessons, Amelia takes on a bunch of odd jobs, including hauling gravel for a local trucking company and working as a stenographer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, anything I can do?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Within six months, she manages to buy her own small, bright yellow biplane that she names Canary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That is so wild.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's in it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I bought a Vespa when I was young. Cause I was like, I gotta stop riding on the back of douchebags Vespas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And get your own.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I need my own or I'm gonna keep dating assholes. So I got my own. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then did you go see Quadropheni at the midnight show?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I was obsessed when the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Vespa kids would come in for Quadravinia. That was my very Favorite. I'm like, I can't get these outfits together, but I pick you. Of all the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So hot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not picking Rocky Horror, and I'm not picking heavy metal. I'm picking quadrophenia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hell, yeah, you are. Those acid washed jeans.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she gets her pilot's license in late 1921, and she begins flying in derbies and setting all kinds of records.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How old is she?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she's 23 and 20. So she's 24.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, 24.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like the idea that they just start air derbies where it's like, can you fly a plane, then come and do a race?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hilarious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she sets all kind of records, like becoming the first woman to fly at an altitude of 14,000ft.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But actually, she wasn't trying to break that record. She just wanted to see how high the canary could go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aww.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Later, she'll write quite modestly, quote, although my figure of 14,000ft was not extraordinary, the performance of my engine was interesting. I had gone up much farther than some of the higher powered planes, which should have been more efficient. So her and the canary are, like, getting in there, and they've got a vibe. Yeah. In 1924, Amelia's life changes again as her father continues to struggle with alcoholism. Her parents get divorced. Now she's 28. She and her mom moved from California to Massachusetts to move in with Muriel, who's studying to be a teacher there in Boston. So Amelia gets a job there as a social worker. She gets paid $60 a month, which is roughly how much in today's money?

[Georgia Hardstark]

$691,000 a month. Wow. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she's now supporting herself and her mother on this modest income. So basically, her expensive hobby of flying planes has to be paused. But she does find a local flying community, and she's a vocal part of it. And local newspapers start writing her fierce advocacy for women in aviation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So even though she can't do it, she's still like, yeah, but we should get to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The good news is she loves her job as a social worker. She works with immigrant families and children, mostly from China and Syria, and she really feels like she's found her calling. Author Susan Butler tells National Geographic, quote, if anything, she was obsessed with being a social worker. She took it as her role in life to act as an agent for social change for women.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Yeah. That's amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I kind of like that, you know, she was pivoting, doing what she could, when she could, and then Also making a life doing other stuff, that was also very important.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Her moral compass was there no matter what she was doing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. She was like, I'm gonna do good and make change and fight for women.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very cool. So then in 1928, a man named George P. Putnam reaches out and that changes everything in her life. Once again. Putnam is a wildly successful publisher who is behind one of America's more notable fascist, Charles Lindbergh's smash hit autobiography. We, of course, Lindbergh was a huge aviating star. Very prominent. You covered his baby's kidnapping.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was gonna say you covered that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But okay, it was you in episode 119. Fingers everywhere. Of course you remember that episode. So Putnam is now on the hunt for his next aviation superstar. He's been given a short list of female pilots, hoping one of them will have that elusive and lucrative it factor. So he sets up a meeting with now 31 year old Amelia. And when he does, she walks in and he can't believe it. She looks a lot like Charles Lindbergh. So he's immediately convinced that she's the one. So George. George pitches Amelia the opportunity of a lifetime. He wants her to take a transatlantic flight, not as the pilot, but as a passenger. And like, it's all for publicity. Yeah, but still, the trip would make her the first woman to fly across the Atlantic Ocean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I get so nervous when we fly to like on tour to Europe and stuff because you're just like. Or to Hawaii when you're just like. So we're just gonna be like on open ocean for like four or five hours.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but imagine being the first woman who gets to do that. And you're gonna know that and it's never going changed. You're the first woman to do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. You know, and she's kind of like, look, I survived that sled, I'll be fine. I'm sure that kind of is a part of it. Right? She's like, get me out there. It'll be good if I do it. Okay. So she's all in. Of course, she thinks that Maren wrote it sounds like a blast. But of course, she also knows there's risks. Writer Anthony Brandt notes it was still a very dangerous thing to fly the Atlantic Ocean. In the year after Charles Lindbergh flew the atlantic, which was 1927. 18 planes made the attempt. Only three succeeded.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Airplanes were a mere quarter of a century old. The North Atlantic is famously stormy. Fog banks are common. Weather reports at the time were primitive. And navigation was often Haphazard. The plane she flew in was made mostly of sheet metal. It rattled and roared like an old steam engine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I bet it was so loud.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. The cabin door had to be tied shut with a small rope.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. And the fucking farting. I was going to say meal service.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But yeah, because it's a tri motor seaplane. It's a little guy with three people in it. Okay, so all that in mind, on June 17, 1928, Amelia takes off in the seaplane, piloted by a man named Wilmer Stultz and co piloted by a man named Lewis Gordon. But after 20 hours and 40 minutes of flight time, when they finally land in Wales, it's Amelia who steps off the plane and into instant celebrity.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thousands of people are there waiting to catch a glimpse of the daring aviatrix is what they call her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amelia Earhart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you think she slept a moment of that? 20 hours and 40 minutes?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Probably. Well, no, probably not. Cause she was probably thrilled out of her mind, scared shitless. And it was super loud and cold.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And windy and there was no bar cart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She just has a little flask that she's sipping out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From a straw. So newspapers run countless glowing features, newsreels declaring her the quote Lady Lindbergh. It's the exact type of publicity George has worked so hard for, because now he wants Amelia to write a memoir that he can then turn into the bestseller.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this was my experience doing it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

George urges her to quit her job back in Boston, move into his New York home and crank out this book. That's exactly how Lindbergh did it. So he wants her to do it the same way. Amelia knows that if she does that, she can parlay all the attention into some real money, which then she can use to support her family and pay for her expensive flying lessons.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's the original aviator influencer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, hashtag for sure. And also, you see these. Let me show you some of these early pictures. She's a gorgeous young woman. She has freckles and her bob hair or whatever, but she's like, oh, she's the cutest. She truly has that face card that they're all looking for. And on top of all that, it's gonna give her a platform to share the message she's carried within her since childhood, which is that women can do anything men can do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the 20s, when no one was trying to say shit, they were like, I'm gonna smoke a cigarette.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jazz. Cigarette jazz.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Amelia upends her entire life in Boston and starts writing a book that will eventually be titled, quote, 20 Hours, 40 Minutes. In it, there's a section titled Women in Aviation. And in that, Amelia writes, quote, while this chapter is called Women in Aviation. Just as appropriate a title might have been, women Outside of Aviation. There should be no line between men and women so far as piloting is concerned.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it. Like a female pilot. Nope, just a pilot. Just a pilot, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Amelia's sister Muriel will later say that Amelia was embarrassed that her claim to fame was being a passenger on that transatlantic flight, which seems backed up by Amelia's own words. She was quoted as saying, the boys did all the flying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is embarrassing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For her, who is a pilot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Get your own Vespa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get your. She also describes herself on that flight as, quote, just baggage, like a sack of potatoes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, God, that had to sting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I think it's. She's the kind of person that's like, if you're gonna applaud for me this much, just wait until you see me fly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. This is nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. She also teases her dream of the future by saying, quote, maybe someday I'll try it alone. So now it's 1932, Amelia's in her mid-30s, and America's in the throes of the Great Depression. But Amelia's done extremely well for herself over the past few years. She's gotten paid endorsements from brands like Lucky Strike, and she's become the aviation editor of Cosmopolitan magazine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's made up. Yeah, it is, but I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But that's how much of a trend flying was at the time, which is great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You gotta get those sponsorships, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We in podcasting understand you're truly right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

About her being the original plane influencer. So at that point, she'd made enough money to buy herself a brand new plane, which is the now iconic fire engine red Lockheed Vega. Amelia is also still devoted to empowering women. She is the founding member and the first president of a group called the 90 nines, which is the first ever organization for women in aviation. The 99 refers to the number of the group's charter members.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. What if it was like, 23? The 23s doesn't sound the same. The 99s is fucking almost 100.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On a more personal level, Amelia's father, Edwin, has passed away of cancer, and George Putnam, her publisher, has divorced his wife. He professes his love for her and proposes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I wish I could have seen that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She says no. He asks again. And he ends up proposing to her six different times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love him, love her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amelia has been skeptical of marriage all her life for very good reason. But she genuinely cares for George, so she eventually accepts. But she has her conditions. She tells him she's gonna keep her own name, which at that time was unheard of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm just. That's incredible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As someone who kept her own name, I wanna thank her for fucking blazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The way she blazed it. And then on her wedding day, she won't wear a traditional bridal gown. She wears a brown suit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just like Fisk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's like, let me just go to work today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, here's the thing. I'm not wearing your stupid fucking dress. And she also, the morning of their wedding, writes him a letter, which I really love, that says, quote, I may have to keep someplace where I can go to be by myself now and then. I cannot guarantee to endure at all times the confinement of even an attractive cage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Like, he loved that about her, you know? It's like. That's, like, why he loved her is like. That's so incredible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is my opinion. When you are raised feral, it's hard to even want to have anything traditional, even when the pressure to do it is so oppressive. Cause it's like, it was literally. She had the kind of household where it's like, go outside and play for 18 hours because everything is so fucked in here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so then it's like, yeah, I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don'T want to go back, tie myself back to this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That structure that I can't trust. If I couldn't trust my own father, how can I trust you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I completely identify with that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And George Putnam's like, I get it. I'll just keep asking you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also, a brown suit on your wedding day is just, like, badass to a degree. Where she's like, that isn't just like, I'm not gonna be traditional. She's like, fuck you, finishing school professor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Apologies to anyone who thought they were actually gonna play this for their children in the backseat of the car like, it was never gonna happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were lying to you. But more importantly, we were lying directly to your children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you were lying to yourself if.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You fucking thought we screamed fuck you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So around the same year she gets married, which is 1932, she publishes her second book. That one's called the Fun of It.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cute. Kicky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love that one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kinky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She also announces with that that she's gonna fly across The Atlantic again, but this time as a pilot and this time by herself. No, at the time, no one, no man or woman, aside from Charles Lindbergh back in 1927, had ever completed a solo non stop transatlantic flight, although 10 pilots had died trying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Yeah. Don't like those odds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she's like 10 male pilots. 10 step away. Yes, exactly. So immediately, Amelia's inner circle, including her husband, George Putnam, start wondering if she's experienced enough to pull off this stunt. Her own mechanic gives her, quote, a 1 in 100 chance of surviving.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cool, dude. Way to be supportive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It reminds me of when the fucking Eagles were like, we don't want to tour with Linda Ronstadt. We're gonna start our own band.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, you go ahead, see how it goes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good luck. She's selling out fucking stadiums anyway. God, that documentary, I loved it so much, but it filled me with a fury that will never go away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was the point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, she wasn't good enough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You need it. You need that theory.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So the idea of making a transatlantic flight alone makes Amelia Earhart feel alive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I was gonna be like, take a beta blocker.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, I can't. This day to day bullshit isn't good enough. I need to get up and over there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What did she do to hype herself up before? Because before I came in here to record, I put on yes, and by Ariana Grande. Like, just to record a podcast that I've done for fucking nine years. And I still need that. Like, what, a little doju Secrets being revealed. Yeah, okay, go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, here's. I can tell you, she writes a poem that says, quote, courage is the price that life extracts for granting peace. Think about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You gotta pay. You must. So on a warm May morning, I added in warm. I don't know why. On a May morning in 19, Amelia takes off from Canada's east coast in her Lockheed Vega. From the start, it's an exhausting, difficult journey. Author Doris L. Rich writes, quote, she was four hours out when she ran into a storm. She would go high and the plane would ice. Then she'd go down until she could see the waves to get the ice off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whoa. How fucking scary. Terrifying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She had no radio contact with anyone. The manifold on her engine and the flames from the backfire from it were coming out. There was a gas cage over her head that began to leak, and the gasoline was dripping down over her forehead and into one eye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

End quote. No, just crash the whole thing into the sea.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's what I would do. I mean, well. After 15 grueling hours of flight time, Amelia Earhart lands her plane safely in Northern Ireland.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this solo flight launches her to all new levels of worldwide stardom. She's mobbed by fans in London and Paris. And when she comes back to the United States, her success is felt as a much needed moment of national joy, because it's still the Great Depression. She even gets her own ticker tape parade in New York City.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Influencer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you ever seen ticker tape parade footage?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It looks so messy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It looks so awesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, if you're down there and everyone's just throwing shit out the window and, like, it's just such a true moment of glory. Yeah, everybody got to focus on that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Then the guy who has to clean it up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why do I think that way? Go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some people like cleaning. Okay. So a few months later, she then becomes the first woman to fly across North America and back. Amelia's now a global icon through and through. I also wonder how much of that is, like, I'm proving I'm not a passenger over and over again, for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's like, the best way to, like, get yourself to do something for me is like, oh, you don't think I can't do that? You think I'm a passenger?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or to myself of like, oh, you're really ashamed because you had that one comedy set that was terrible that you're remembering from seven years ago. Then I'm gonna go out there, be the best. I think shame works.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shame is a great motivator, but being.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A career aviator, even when you're a famous one, takes a ton of money. So Amelia hits the lecture circuit. She goes on tour, making exhausting back to back town by town appearances. Tell me about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

TED Talks. Og og TED Talks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's got like the head mic, but it's not connected to anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a 30s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, what's that thing by her mouth sometimes? She earned $2,400 in a single week. In two days money. 1932, how much would $2,400 a week be?

[Georgia Hardstark]

76,000?

[Karen Kilgariff]

55,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But still, I'm in the area.

[Karen Kilgariff]

$55,000 a week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's insane. That's insane. She started the first podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. She's also using her platform to campaign for women's empowerment, not only in aviation, but she's trying to get the Equal Rights Amendment passed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Girl, like, don't rest. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's invited to the White House in 1933. She becomes tight with the Roosevelts. Brag, brag, brag.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So fucking cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A not so fun fact about the Equal Rights Amendment, though. Advocates have been fighting to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment since the 20s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Even though it's already met the required number of state ratifications, for some reason it still has not been added to the US Constitution.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Imagine being invited to the White House and wanting to go and being proud to go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you like the Roosevelts? Fuck yeah, I'd go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Imagine it's just such the end of an era. Yeah, but the. It's an end of an era. And what I'm talking about is democracy. Fucking Jesus Christ.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, 1933 is a big year for Amelia also, because she breaks her own speed record on a second flight across North America. She's just getting it done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

By 1935, 38 year old Amelia has set records for solo flights from like Honolulu to Oakland, California or LA to Mexico City. That's just a couple of them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've done those.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And solo. You mean you just weren't talking to Vince? She's also campaigning for fdr and she launches her own fashion line called Emilia Fashions.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Brown suits.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Called brown suits. Only she explains.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh, if you could find one of those in the vintage shop. If you're like doing vintage shopping and then suddenly see fucking Amelia Earhart fashions by Amelia dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the theory was that all flight clothing, of course, had been made for men up to that point.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So when you had your nice jotipurs or your weird white shirt or whatever. Leather jacket.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, like horse.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So the idea was they were supposed to be. And of course she always preferred pants. Anyway, so I looked up on AmeliaAirHeart.org and they had pictures from a newspaper of the ad of it, and it said, sports clothes designed by Amelia Earhart. But then every single picture in that ad was models wearing dresses. There was not one pair of pants.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which I was like, she never got a say in that. Nah, she sold her dress.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's true. As busy as she is, Amelia still gets the itch to make another big flight. So she writes to her friends saying, quote, I have the feeling there's just one more good flight left in my system and I hope this is it. It is my swan song as far as record flying is concerned. My frosting on the cake.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God, rest on your beautiful laurels sometimes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guys, sorry, I can't join adult children of alcoholics, so I'm gonna go ahead and keep on flying across the cake.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Take A nice little nap on them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Laurels can't do it. So the next year, 1936, Amelia announces her plan to fly around the world. If successful, she'll be the first woman to ever do it. Obviously, she and George fundraise for a brand new plane that's built specifically for this journey. They pay for it too, but it's so expensive, it's $80,000, so they need to fundraise. $80,000 back then is about how much in today's money. 351.8 million.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dude, I've learned nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your scale just went like that a little bit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know what's happening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she calls this plane her flying laboratory because it's outfitted with all the latest technology, but she never learns to use much of it. Doris Elrich writes, quote, Amelia did not like radio communication. There's absolutely no doubt about it. That's like me in emails. It's so bad for business, she not only didn't bother to learn it, she didn't really find it necessary. There's a hint here of the ego that all great explorers and adventurers have. They have a certain faith that they're going to make it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And when you spend one point something on a fucking plane, you hope it like flies itself just a little bit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you would hope there's an automated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aspect to it, something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amelia wants to do the trip by herself, but it's eventually decided she will need a team, being that she doesn't like radio communication and all. So she hires three men. A technical advisor named Paul Mantz, a marine navigator with radio operation experience named Harry Manning, and a former Pan Am navigator named Fred Noonan. So on March 17, 1937, they take off from Oakland, California. They land in Honolulu. Then on March 20, they take off for the second leg of this trip. But something goes wrong. The plane skids off course at the end of the Runway and it crashes. It's a big enough accident that the plane has to be sent in for extensive repairs. So this is a deeply stressful moment for Amelia. She's basically gambled everything on this extraordinarily expensive flight during a national financial crisis.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Doris L. Rich writes, quote, after she cracked up the plane in Honolulu, she felt fear for the first time. The immensity of this project suddenly hit her. She knew that if she lost that plane or failed in that, she and George were dead broke, both of them. End quote. You can tell Doris L. Rich is writing from like it's probably 1945 or something. Yeah, that's the vibe I get.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is gonna happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're dead broke, both of them. So the crash in Honolulu also rattles Emilia's loved ones. According to bbs, friends urge her to abandon this mission. They also express concern over her exhausted and anxious mental state. Yeah, so it seems like she's kind of pushing it anyway, even though she's scared or she's worried.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This includes her husband George, who writes her a letter promising that they'll figure things out should she abandon the flight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, there's time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's okay. But Amelia won't give in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Give in and regroup a little bit and then come back stronger than ever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like this is that kind of thing. You know, there are people who are like, if you're a serious workaholic, you just can't consider taking a nap during the day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That thing of, like, rest is for the weak and it's. It's like. Actually it's a beautiful thing to give to yourself. And it's okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is okay. But sometimes you just can't because if you rest, that means, like, your momentum will slow, even if it's just your mental momentum. And clearly she's still on that sled, still going under that horse drawn carriage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but then it won't go away. You can still come back after it and, like, you're gonna be more clear headed and you're gonna be older and smarter and like, give yourself a fucking break sometimes times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that shows why Karen's CEO and I don't have a fucking office at Exactly Right Media.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is not good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not. And she has two podcasts, and I'm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gonna start a third. And it's called it's fine to do this to Yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's Fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fine. That actually would be funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's Fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A podcast called It's Fine, and you just have people come on and talk about shit that is so not that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They put themselves through.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was fine. I was fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was fine. No, I liked it. It was fine. By the time the plane is repaired, Amelia's team has shrunk. The technical advisor, Paul, and Harry, the marine navigator, the only guy with radio experience, both back out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were like, later days.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like, read the fates.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I'm gonna go take a nap.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's nap time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mercury is in retrograde, so now it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amelia and Fred Noonan. Thanks to changing weather patterns, they're Forced to come up with a whole new flight plan. So instead of leaving from Hawaii, they're now taking off from Miami, Florida. And on June 1, 1937, they do just that. This time without a hitch. And then they start on this 40 day, 20,000 mile trip, making several stops to refuel along the way. They soar over Africa, through the Middle east, over Southeast Asia, onto New Guinea. They have another stop before a very long stretch over the Pacific Ocean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're the first people who have ever seen this from the fucking air. Like how?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So wild.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Believable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On July 2, 1937, Amelia and Fred take off from New Guinea. At this point, They've completed nearly 3/4 of this journey. And the goal is to now get to a tiny sliver of land called Howland island, roughly halfway between Australia and Hawaii. Truly out in the middle of the Pacific.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's only about a mile and a half long island and a half a mile wide.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a hard target.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a little tiny one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tragically, Amelia and Fred struggle to find Howland Island. We know they arrive in the general area because Amelia starts radioing the Coast Guard who have a ship called Itasca nearby, and they're receiving her messages. Some of these transmissions are so crystal clear that the men on the Itasca rush to the decks thinking that the plane will be overhead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In one of her transmissions, Amelia says that she thinks she's close by, but she's lost and she only has about half an hour of fuel left. But because she doesn't know much about radio transmission, she's sending these messages while on an improper frequency on the radio. So the Coast Guard is only able to respond to her with Morse code, which neither she nor Fred understand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's, that's an important one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Lot of crucial, you gotta elements. Let's not criticize Amelia. We're not, you know, where the story goes from here. The messages stop coming in. 39 year old Amelia Earhart and 44 year old Fred Noonan and the plane that they're flying in together disappear almost immediately. FDR dispatches a huge crew to go look for that. It's made up of 10 ships and 65 planes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that causes a lot of controversy because it costs millions of dollars. It's still the Depression. So after two weeks of combing a vast swath of the Pacific Ocean near Howlin island with no results, this search is called off. But George Putnam has his own search going.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I forgot that. Yeah, okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He funds an independent search himself and it goes until October of 1937.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he just kind of never stops searching for her. Yeah, that also turns up nothing. In January of 1939, two years after vanishing, Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan are legally declared dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They turned up nothing, Not a scrap. So they were, like, looking in the wrong area.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, okay, we'll talk about that in one second. There are countless theories of what happened during those final moments of Amelia's last flight. All have devoted supporters, as they usually do, because the disappearance happened in the lead up to World War II. Some people think that Amelia and Fred were captured by the Japanese military after crash landing on a Japanese controlled island. And they were either executed for being American spies, or they were turned into spies for Japan and sent back to the US with new identities. No, that one's a little wild, but what if. Yeah, now we write that movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Another theory is that Amelia wound up on an island called Nika Maroro. Sorry for that pronunciation. 400 miles south of Howland Island.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is this where they found her compact?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hold on, wait, wait. They think they might have lived as castaways there before dying of thirst or starvation. Some people believe this theory. Then take it once step further, suggesting that massive coconut crabs could have consumed their remains and scattered their bones, making their bodies harder to find.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, those are big.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's such a creepy idea. The island had been inhabited in the past, but it was uninhabited at the time of this flight. Despite this, intermittent radio signals were reported from that general area around the time they disappeared, as if the plane's radio had remained intact and accessible and they were calling for help. On top of that, in 1940, bones are found on Nakamuroro. They have since been lost, so the DNA has never been tested.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but again, that island had been inhabited, so they weren't necessarily. There's. Searchers have found on that island a single shoe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A piece of aluminum.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And a jar of freckle cream.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Freckle cream.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which certainly points to a person and maybe a woman having been there. And for what it's worth, Amelia Earhart had freckles that she was reportedly very self conscious about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, first of all, it breaks my heart that she is so self conscious that she brings freckle cream on this, like, adventure. But then I'm like, I wonder if that was like their SPF at the time, where it's like you had to cover your freckles with this cream and maybe it wouldn't get.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it was maybe like two for One where she's like, I need moisture because this wind's going to whip around my face.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sunscreen. It's an early sunscreen. Okay, Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's her, it's theirs. This is it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you imagine you're just on this island, it's mostly coconut crabs, and then you're just like ponds. Ponds. Cold cream.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if the cold cream was like a sponsor of the flight so she had to bring it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if it was a sponsor of this podcast? Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Freckle cream.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Freckle cream. Amelia Earhart uses it and you can too. No, because now they love freckles so much that they have little freckle stamps.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they have tattoos of freckles on your fucking face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The kids these days with their big butts and their freckles and their attitudes, okay? Those items are never confirmed as belonging to either Fred or Amelia. And modern day efforts to search the surrounding ocean near that island have turned up nothing. Of course, many people think Amelia's plane simply ran out of fuel and crashed into the open ocean. Because of the sheer size and depth of the Pacific, it hasn't been found. Amelia's sister Muriel thinks this is what happened. Quote, I'm not happy with some of the dramas about Amelia where they went into fiction. So essentially, of course, that's how it always is, where it's like actually simple theorizing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The hard truth, which presumably was much harder for Muriel, Amelia's mother Amy, and her husband George, is that we simply do not know what happened to her. George Putnam died in 1950 at age 62 of kidney problems. Amy, Amelia's mother, died in 1962 at age 95. And her sister Muriel passed away in 1998 at the age of 98.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Searchers continue to hunt for any signs of Amelia Earhart or her plane. As recently as 2023, a deep sea exploration group released an underwater sonar image of what they thought was the plane. But in 2024, they discovered it was just a bunch of rocks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh huh. Plane shaped rocks. All that in mind. Instead of focusing on the mysterious ending of Amelia's story, we can always relish in what we do know about her life and her bold approach to living. As writer Anthony Brandt has said, quote, it wasn't that Amelia was willful, rather that she was free. She was calm, fearless, cheerful in the face of life and she attracted everybody. She believed that women should live lives rich in experience and have careers if they possibly could.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she lived her belief. She was a remarkable human being, a historic figure, one of those people who, skirting the farthermost edges of experience, open up possibilities for us all. And that is the story of pioneering aviatrix Amelia Earhart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Boom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

High five for Amelia Earhart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Had to be done.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you're in the fifth grade and you heard anything I said that was wrong, please write in atmy favorite murdermail.com because we know you all have done reports on her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we're open to corrections. Always.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Women should live free. It's insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine?

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it really is the truth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is. That was its own fucking hooray. I feel like I do too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that was pretty great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pretty great ending.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Still. Send us your fucking hoorays and comment them. But please, that was it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. This week we've done all the work we need to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I agree.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great. Then stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been an exactly Right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squilacci.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our researchers are Marin McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Follow the show on Instagram at my favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to my favorite murder on the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now you can watch us on exactly right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe. Goodbye.

[Unknown]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Level.

[Unknown]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Unknown]

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