483 - Those Pants, That Hand

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Episode 483: "Those Pants, That Hand"
Release Date: June 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

In Episode 483 of My Favorite Murder, Karen Kilgariff delves into a gripping true crime narrative that intertwines literary legend Harper Lee with a series of mysterious deaths in Alexander City, Alabama. This solo episode uncovers the dark past of Reverend Willie Maxwell and explores the enigmatic connection to Harper Lee's unpublished work. Interspersed with lighthearted banter and updates on podcast-related merchandise, the episode offers a comprehensive look at a lesser-known true crime case.

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Main Story: The Reverend Willie Maxwell Case

Introduction to the Case

Karen begins by introducing the intriguing case detailed in the book "Furious Murder, Fraud, and the Last Trial of Harper Lee." Set in the late 1970s, the story centers around Reverend Willie Maxwell, a charismatic black preacher in Alexander City, Alabama, whose life unravels amid a series of suspicious deaths within his circle.

Notable Quote:

"When Mary Lou Maxwell is found dead, the reverend's reputation takes a huge hit. Her death is as suspicious as Willie's behavior."
(05:00)

Suspicious Deaths and Maxwell's Motives

Mary Lou Maxwell's death in 1970 marks the beginning of a troubling pattern. Initially presented as a car accident, evidence such as blood on the vehicle and nearby rope suggests foul play. Reverend Maxwell's financial motivations come to light as he had taken out multiple life insurance policies on Mary Lou before her demise.

Notable Quote:

"Most of us don't treat our livers with any respect."
(00:39)
(Note: This quote is part of the skipped advertisement section and unrelated to the main story.)

Karen recounts how subsequent deaths—Maxwell's brother John in 1972 and his new wife Dorcas Anderson in the same year—further implicate him. Despite mounting circumstantial evidence, Maxwell evades conviction, largely due to powerful legal representation and witness inconsistencies.

Notable Quote:

"But the Reverend's reputation is fully in the gutter. He is now, basically, his name is like, he's the local boogeyman."
(26:15)

Community Suspicion and Supernatural Rumors

As more deaths occur, rumors about Maxwell's involvement grow. The community begins to speculate about his possible use of voodoo or hoodoo, influenced by widespread misunderstandings of these practices. This leads to sensational media portrayals, painting Maxwell as a nefarious figure beyond legal reach.

Notable Quote:

"Because also the Reverend has so many good lines."
(05:08)
(Note: Likely a misattribution in the transcript; refer to accurate timestamps for quotes.)

Climactic Event and Maxwell's Demise

The saga reaches its peak in 1977 when Robert Burns, a respected community member and veteran, publicly takes revenge by shooting Maxwell during his funeral. This shocking act of vigilantism underscores the community's desperation for justice.

Notable Quote:

"So the Reverend's buried one week later. KCSEPP reports, quote, his funeral was one of the most well attended in this part of Alabama."
(29:44)

Harper Lee's Involvement

Harper Lee, renowned author of To Kill a Mockingbird, becomes fascinated by Maxwell's case. Drawn by themes of Southern life, race, and justice, Lee moves to Alexander City to research the murders. Despite her deep involvement, she never publishes her findings, leaving the case shrouded in mystery.

Notable Quote:

"She wanted the actual people to know. She likes being a fan."
(40:40)

Karen speculates on the reasons behind Lee's silence, suggesting possible writer's block, publisher resistance, or a desire to maintain ethical standards in true crime reporting. A handwritten note from Lee found decades later hints at her enduring connection to Alexander City.

Notable Quote:

"The enduring mystery here involves Harper Lee, who, despite all evidence suggesting that she was writing a book on this case, never publishes one."
(38:19)

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Interlude: Discussion on "Pride and Prejudice"

Before diving into the main story, Karen and Georgia engage in a brief discussion about the 2005 adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. They express their thoughts on the film's portrayal, character dynamics, and acting performances, highlighting their appreciation for the intricate storytelling and emotional depth.

Notable Quote:

"I got choked up. Actually got me like, you know, I don't cry. But when she fucking told him off when they were on the cliff or whatever."
(04:24)

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Podcast Updates and Merchandise

The hosts share updates on their latest merchandise designs, showcasing their creative process and the humorous ideas behind their product lines. Georgia introduces "Hello, my name is Sept," a mug and koozie set, while Karen presents shirts featuring her father's quote, "We're gonna sally forth."

Notable Quote:

"We have T shirts that are my hand-drawn picture of my dad saying we're gonna sally forth."
(10:57)

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Hoorays Section

In the Hoorays segment, listeners share personal milestones and achievements. Notable mentions include Georgia celebrating her one-year sobriety anniversary, a listener completing an associate's degree and becoming a private investigator, and others sharing joyous life events such as new relationships, parenting successes, and personal growth.

Notable Quote:

"My hooray is that today is my one year sober anniversary."
(42:40)

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Closing Remarks

Karen wraps up the episode by reflecting on the depth and intensity of the story shared, emphasizing the importance of uncovering hidden histories and the enduring impact of true crime narratives. The episode concludes with thanks to sponsors, producers, and listeners, encouraging continued engagement with the Exactly Right podcast network.

Notable Quote:

"She wants the actual people to know. So here."
(41:12)

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Conclusion

Episode 483 of My Favorite Murder offers a compelling mix of true crime storytelling, personal updates, and community engagement. Karen Kilgariff's deep dive into the Reverend Willie Maxwell case not only highlights a fascinating intersection between literature and crime but also underscores the lasting mysteries that remain unresolved. Listeners are left contemplating the complexities of justice, morality, and the power of storytelling in uncovering the truth.

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Additional Resources:

• Book Mentioned: Furious Murder, Fraud, and the Last Trial of Harper Lee by Casey Sepp
• Podcast Network: Exactly Right Podcast Network
• Merchandise: Available at My Favorite Murder Merch

For more detailed insights and discussions, listen to the full episode on iHeartRadio or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, most of us don't treat our livers with any respect.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's be real. Finding clean, trustworthy and effective supplements these days is hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But here's the thing. Caring for your body shouldn't be that hard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's why we're telling people about Symbiotica.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Symbiotica is changing the game with clean science backed supplements. I ordered the glutathione and it comes in these little packets and you just rip off the top and kind of drink it like a little juice box from grammar school.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've seen you in meetings taking them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You've seen me do it. But I swear to God, it's like I can tell the difference. It is like, hey, here's a little support for your brain, Here's a little support for your heart. Here's a little support for your nervous system. It's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Visit symbiotica.com My favorite murder to get 20 off plus free shipping.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's C Y M B I O T ika.com My favorite murder for 20% off plus free shipping Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Georgia Hardstar, that's Karen Kilgariff, and we're here to podcast for you once again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're going to do it every week if we, if the mood strikes us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If we have the sweaters with the colors that are needed to combine and be together. Magenta and lime green.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What would you call this? Lime Green. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? Yeah, with a little forest.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It's loud. It's very loud.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it looks like a nice 60s polyester blouse.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, I'll take that. No, no. It's fucking fast fashioned.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, I mean, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fast fashion with a retro bent.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of retro and bent, I finally did it. I watched Pride and Prejudice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, wow. How'd it go?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It went great. Vince was at a wrestling show. I was alone on like a Saturday night with my wine. What do I do? I had caught up with the Valley and so I was like, oh, holy shit, I'm gonna do this. There was not a moment. I was bored.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not a fucking moment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Which is like. That's all I ask for in a movie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wanted more. I fucking loved it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was really fucking good, right? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It just really gets undersold as like a chick flick or like a. Oh, Jane Austen Rhodes. Like, it's such a gorgeous unfurling of a film in front of you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know Vince would have loved it if he were home. Like, I didn't need to watch it without him at all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In fact, it probably would have been better with him. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What was your favorite part?

[Georgia Hardstark]

The first dance. Dance party.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When he slams her and then she.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Slams him back when they first go in. Yeah. And it's like, ah. And then it's also like, I know that actress. I know that actress. I think every actress that's famous today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The mom could have done without her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Brenda Blethlin. Well, that was the idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know, I know. That's like the point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But worst mom ever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it was. Oh, and then, like, I got choked up. Actually got me like, you know, I don't cry. But when she fucking told him off when they were on the cliff or whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I got like emotional when she was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, and your dad. That was. I was supposed to take it as a compliment. My family and think I'm shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't believe I love you. Well, fuck you. You know, it was very. It was good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Elizabeth Bennet. She does that in every circumstance. My favorite is also the first dance when she. Because I'm always like, how does one meet that type of rejection which. Everybody fears it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How would you do that with a smile on your face and be like. Even if their partner was a little plane or whatever. Whatever the line is, and then walk away where it's just like, you devastating. Especially if it was Matthew McFadden, you'd just be like, how come I'm not doing that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Devastating.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's kind of like, whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She has so many good lines. Wait, here's my other best favorite part.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because also, you should watch Vera, the British detective show, because the mother plays a detective.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. And I also need to watch the other versions of Pro and Prejudice because everyone had a fucking opinion. I'm not mad at them about this, I guess, for once in my life. So I want to watch the other versions and find out for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This series is great because it's a binge that then lasts. It's not just an hour and a half. It's like, however many episodes I can't remember. And that's the great one with Colin Firth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He plays a different kind of Mr. Darcy, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know if I'd be attracted to Colin Firth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's my feeling.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But Matthew McFadden's coming across that field at you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't think I'd be attracted to him ever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah, those pants. Fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ah. This pant. That hand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But how about Dame Judi Dench's star turn?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, when she comes to that house to be like, you tell me if you are marrying my nephew. It can't be born. It can't be born.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's just like, I've got this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a perfect movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's good. I enjoyed it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm so glad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we're here. So here we are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, stop acting mad, because I'm so glad. I'm so excited. Also, it's one of those ones where, like, it's a go back to. Because there's things you missed. Oh, also, we're not even mentioning. What? Perfectly prepared potatoes. That part where the priest cousin comes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that guy, the weird cousin was so good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's the. And do you remember. Do you know he was from season two, white Lotus, the bad gay that Jennifer Coolidge was hanging out with?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Same actor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's an 80s actor too, though, isn't he?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's been around for a long time, but he is, like, one of the best of the best in England.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. He's the bad gay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, Tom, these bad gays.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a line from it. We're not fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, that's Jennifer Coolidge being quoted. These gays are gonna kill me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh, that's good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I'm overjoyed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, good. But let's. What do you have what have you got? Let's move on from perfectly prepared potatoes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I won't. I'm just gonna keep misquoting the movie. Which driving people who really know every word of the movie. But people on TikTok have made T shirts with him on it. And then it says, what perfectly prepared potato. I wish I could remember it, but it's like. It says, what perfectly prepared potatoes. And it's just like him looking down like it's a fan shirt kind of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So good. Can I just let you know real quick?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. What excellent boiled potatoes is the phrase.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's Tom Hollander.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you, Molly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Molly, thank you. Wait, did you know what excellent boiled potatoes off the dome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I had to Google if I am.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Going to be clean about this. Please always be clean. There's no reason not to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. There's no shame.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just did it wrong eight times in a row. You get to do it wrong if you want to. What excellent boiled potatoes and what. What a perfectly appointed room. Something like that. Just like bad small talk. That's good. So good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm so glad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you guys for fucking yelling at me until I did it. It was for my own good. It was for my own good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you feel different?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel more open minded to movies like that because they have a recommendation. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's another one and there's a couple versions of it. It's called Persuasion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Someone else mentioned that in the comments.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The original Persuasion is so good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it is one of those love stories of like, it's too late, she made the wrong call and she lost him forever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Devastating. Okay, But.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But did she? Our Jane Austen doesn't devastate permanently.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it is so beautifully acted. And it's the same thing where you're in this place. It's so real. These houses, these estates they live on, whatever. And like, what it does to people, what people are like, I don't know. It's great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Vera and Persuasion. I will do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you don't have to watch. You don't have to go all the way into Vera. You'll just be blown away at what an amazing actress Brenda Blethley is because she's like a completely different person. And not that mother is like the kind of mother that would say a thing that would humiliate you and the whole family in front of as many people as possible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have one of those.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's hard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I've met one of those before. It's painful and not even on purpose. That's the. I feel like I have to say that. Like, not on purpose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's your personality.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. It's tough. Yeah, yeah. She's a little. She's squeamish.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, well, should we talk about merch for one second?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, sure. Okay. Because it's fucking hilarious this week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, this is very exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we each got to design our own merch. Didn't get to. We just fucking did it. And then Nicole's like, that should be real merch. And we were like, okay. So I designed. My pitch was, hello, my name is. And then the name would be Sept, because that's the one I got. Superintendent, I got it wrong. It was episode 465. You're kidding yourself. Supped. So hello, my name is Sept. Is now available as a mug and a koozie. And I have both right here with me. Hello, my name is September. With my terrible handwriting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Georgia's script.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My actual scrawl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Truly her design. So then I also designed some merch. And essentially people were saying that after the election, me quoting my dad, who said we just have to sally forth, was. People were really liking that online. So Nicole suggested we make shirts of it. And she's like, what do you want the shirt to look like? And so I picked up a tiny legal pad and just very quickly sketched it and said, what if it was something like this? Just like a little cartoon head of my dad saying that. And then she was like, sounds good. What if we just do it exactly the way you wrote it? So in this same vein and in the same spirit of George's merch, we have T shirts that are. My hand drawn picture of my dad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which literally looks exactly like him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It does. It totally does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Saying we're gonna sally forth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's a perfect shirt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's pretty great. I feel like for us and merch. Yeah, this is where we wanna be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Like, this is. It strikes a good balance, I think. I think. So this is your summer merch, guys. To the beach. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, you could. Do you want it on a towel?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you go to the beach?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hello, my name is Supped on a towel. That's fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great idea. I actually love that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you go to the beach?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you go. Do you like sand in your toes and in your car and in. Everywhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everywhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everywhere. Purse people are like, we do. Yeah, people do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All summer long.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should we do the rest of the exactly right. Updates while we're here?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure. We should we have a network, and it's called the Exactly Right Podcast Network. And here are some of the updates. Well, this is a big one. MFM Animated is brand new. Nick Terry brings us the story of Peachy, the bitter little bird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's my favorite. I say that every fucking time. It's my favorite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, this one is beautiful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It has so many. I get Peachy pulls a switchblade on me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm honored.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No spoilers. But Georgia's physically threatened by a small bird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm honored to be physically threatened by Peachy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you can go find it on YouTube. Right now it'[e-mail] exactlyrightmedia and there are also 70 other episodes of MFM Animated. So if you like this one, you might like the other ones too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Please follow us on YouTube. It's very helpful. And while you're there on YouTube, we've also got full episodes of Buried Bones. This podcast will kill you. And the little podcast called My Favorite Murder. There's tons of videos, guys. We're making them for you. Please go check that out. YouTube.com exactlyrightmedia thank you. The end. All right, so it's summer. We need some mental health time off. And so Karen is gonna tell you a story this episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we're gonna do some solo episodes, get our homework done and go on vacation. Yeah. I have a story for you that the book that was written about this story, I have recommended on this show so many times that it was one of those things where I was like, well, I just read the one book and I like the one book. I did a similar thing with the man from the Train, which I love so much. But I also did this with book Furious Murder, Fraud, and the Last Trial of Harper Lee.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So today I'm going to tell you about that, the case behind that book. So it starts off in the late 70s in the small town of Alexander City, Alabama, and a local literary icon has just moved to town. It's none other than Alabama native and world famous author of To Kill a Mockingbird, Harper Lee. At this point, Lee has won the 1961 Pulitzer for that book, which quickly became an American classic. And Harper Lee became a household name. But instead of embracing that celebrity, she became even more private. And she bucked the literary world's expectations. She didn't capitalize off the immense success of her book and immediately cranked out a second novel. She just kind of, like, receded. So basically now 20 years have passed since To Kill a Mockingbird's publication and Harper Lee has never indicated that she's doing anything else until now. Because Lee has come to Alexander City on a mission. She's setting up interviews throughout town and scribbling down notes all about a string of suspicious deaths and a particularly sensational murder trial that took place there in Alexandra City. Harper Lee has been transfixed by this case. She tells her friends it might be the story that pulls her out of her hiatus. She's even come up with a title for the book that she plans to write about it. It's called the Reverend. This is the story of Reverend Willie Maxwell, a black Alabama preacher whose family members keep dying under mysterious circumstances.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. I totally downloaded the audiobook and then didn't listen to it. So this is good for me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is a vacation listen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We build and build on these recommendations.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So of course, KCSEPP's furious hours, the book all about this case, is the main source. Please order it from your local independent bookstore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey. Or get it from the library, everyone. Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Check it out. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes if you wanna see. What else are you quoting?

[Georgia Hardstark]

The poster in the library that says check it out. That has like the stack of books. Were you doing that on purpose or that just happened?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This probably came out of my childhood memory. Cause it's like a stack of books. Is there a check mark anywhere on there?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I think at the top. But it's like, because you check out books, it's like a winky thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I think a book is flying open. A winky thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just a little winky thing. Hey librarians, if you have a good check it out poster at your library, will you send us a picture of it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my gosh. Tag us. Post your photos of Check it out and tag us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And if you think you have the oldest check it out poster, like the most vintage, please let us see it. Yes, please let us have our, like childhood memories come back to us. Okay. Nice one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Side content. Okay. So we begin in the summer of 1960, seven years before Harper Lee arrives in Alexander city. It is the 3rd of August, and the body of Mary Lou Maxwell, a woman in her early 40s, has just been found in her car on the side of a rural two lane road called Highway 22. And that's just outside of Alexander City. Mary Lou's husband of 20 years is a man named Willie Maxwell, a sharply dressed, captivating man in his mid-40s who's often described as being elegant. He's also a reverend. Willie preaches at various churches and revivals throughout the area. And author Casey Sepp writes in furious hours that, quote, there wouldn't be anybody nicer to you. Conversation wise. People said of him, you'd think that man came from heaven. He was so smooth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. Mm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So when Marilu is found dead, the reverend's reputation takes a huge hit. And for good reason. Her death is as suspicious as Willie's behavior. So, for example, the night Mary Lou is found dead, Willie calls the police and claims that he's worried she might have been in an accident. He then directs the police straight to her car, broken down on the side of Highway 22. So not just a theory.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When the police arrive, it's obvious that Mary Lou was not in a car accident. Her vehicle shows no signs of damage. The surrounding trees are untouched, and it looks like the car has simply pulled off the highway and been parked by the side of the road. But Marilu's body has clearly been brutally attacked and strangled. There's blood everywhere, including on the outside of the car, which is hard to explain in a supposed crash. Plus, rope is found on the ground nearby, which may have been used as the murder weapon. It then comes to light that things were tense between Willie and Mary Lou. He'd been cheating on her with lots of different women, and at the time of her death, the Maxwells were in tens of thousands of dollars of debt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then investigators get bombshell information from the couple's neighbor. Her name is Dorcas Anderson. She's in her late 20s. So Dorcas tells police, around 10pm on August 3rd, Mary Lou had stopped by in a panic, saying she just received a call that Willie was involved in a bad car accident coming home from a preaching gig, and that he'd crashed somewhere off of Highway 22.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Mary Lou says to Dorcas, I'm on my way to go get him. But suspiciously, about an hour after this, Willie comes home in a car with no visible damage. Mary Lou is not with him, and Mary Lou never comes back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hmm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So all of that looks bad for Willie, but it gets even worse when he immediately tries to cash in on several of the life insurance policies that he had taken out on her. Yikes. At that time, it was very easy to take out life insurance policies. All you needed was a name, a birthday, a Social Security number, and a talent for forgery. If you're doing it behind someone's back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They had machines, like cigarette machines for life insurance at the airport back then. Like, you just put a quarter in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The worst feeling.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, what A brilliant person to think of those machines where it's like, you know, where you get real anxious about life and death. Horrible. Okay, so most of these policies were very cheap for Willie to file, yet they promised to pay out thousands of dollars in the event of Marilu's death. And some had been taken out on her right before the day she died. So before long, Willie Maxwell is charged in his wife's murder. He hire a white attorney named Tom Ratney to defend him. Despite the overwhelming circumstantial evidence against Willie, he winds up being acquitted. After the prosecution's key witness, who is Dorcas Anderson, changes her testimony. Suddenly, Dorcas claims she can no longer remember what happened the night that Mary Lou was killed. So now, even though the people of Alexander City are deeply suspicious of him, Willie Maxwell walks away a free man. And with Tom Rodney's help, he also becomes a rich man because he is able to cash in on his dead wife's insurance. The insurers fully believe that Willie killed Mary Lou, so they are reluctant to pay. But when they don't, Rodney files civil suits against them and ultimately forces their hand. It's unclear exactly how much Willie makes off these policies, but we do know that he gets a handful of checks that add up to thousands of dollars, and then he splits the money. 50. 50. With his attorney.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hmm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then, like a twist from a soap opera, Dorcas Anderson's husband dies and she becomes the next Mrs. Willie Maxwell.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, see where this is going?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not great. So even after the mysterious death of his wife and the suspicion he's involved, Willie Maxwell somehow manages to keep on preaching. But he has to do it out of town, where the congregants are not aware of the story. Then, In February of 1972, about a year and a half after Marilu's death, Willie's 52 year old brother John is found dead on the side of the road about 10 miles outside of Alexandra City. And according to Casey Sepp, John's cause of death is officially listed as a heart attack due to over consumption of alcohol. But when it comes to light that Willie has taken out life insurance policies on his brother as well, locals began to theorize that Willie forced his brother John to drink a lethal amount of alcohol and then left him for dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. That's. How do you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it would be so long and like, horrible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the problem is that police can ever prove that Willie Maxwell is involved. They simply don't have the evidence, which is something that the reverend's attorney Hammers home when his client is taken in for questioning. All good things most of the time. For if people were like, fighting for people, where it's like, hey, if you don't have evidence. Yeah, no, but it's like. But there is evidence.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Just not. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Willie is never charged with any wrongdoing. And because of that, the insurance companies have no choice but to again pay him out. And they are not happy about it. You don't want the insurance companies mad at you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just. You can't take insurance out for whomever you want. It just feels weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was the 70s, though. Early 70s. Yeah, man. Might as well have been the 17, 20. I don't know what I'm talking about. I was only two. Okay. So then a few months later, In September of 1972, off a highway called Route 9, the new Mrs. Reverend Willie Maxwell, Dorcas Anderson is found dead in her car.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, dear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In an eerily similar way to how Mary Lou Maxwell was found. Dorcas is only 29 years old at the time, and by all accounts, she was a very healthy woman. Her autopsy notes bruises on her shoulders and elbows, as well as a cut above one of her eyes and twigs and leaves stuck in her shoes, which could point to some sort of violence or struggle. But her death is deemed a natural one. Mm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So even though Dorcas and the Reverend had only been married for about a year, Willie had taken out about 20 life insurance policies on his new wife. All of which were almost certainly done behind her back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, okay, he's just 20 gangbusters here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Dorcas loved ones are certain that the Reverend is responsible for her death, but because it's not deemed a homicide, and with the case against Willie being entirely circumstantial, no charges are ever filed. So for a few years, things are quiet. The Reverend winds up marrying for a third time, and this time to a woman named Ophelia. But Little more than three years after Dorcas's death in February of 1976, Willie's 22 year old nephew, James Hicks, is found dead in his car off of Route 9.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The same highway where Dorcas was found. Authorities to this day have never determined James cause of death. His car and the area around it don't have any signs of damage. And an autopsy will show that James only has a tiny bit of alcohol and caffeine in his system. He has a few small cuts on his arms, legs and chest, and one on the inside of his mouth, but they aren't the types of injuries that would kill someone. James's widow, Mary, tells investigators she is certain Willie Maxwell is responsible. She even claims that his new wife, Ophelia, had been calling trying to get James's Social Security number before he died.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So police track down the two local men who tell them about their very damning interactions with the Reverend. One claims Willie tried to recruit him into committing a murder. The other claims that Willie admitted to killing people with pills containing some sort of poison that he would dissolve into whiskey. So the police collect all that information about Willie Maxwell's activities, but they don't arrest him. Probably because they would need harder evidence than just hearsay. And they know this lawyer is gonna be, like, waiting right there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But until then, increasingly horrified locals fear that Willie Maxwell is going to keep on getting away with murder. And then one year later, in mid-1977, Willie's 16 year old stepdaughter, Shirley Ann Ellington, Ophelia's child, is found along a nearby highway near Willie's car.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Geez. At some point, the evidence is that everyone you freaking know dies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's the evidence.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your immediate family keeps being killed. Yeah, like, but unlike the other suspicious deaths, Shirley Ann is not discovered inside the car. She's actually been crushed underneath it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the police think this scene is staged because it's supposed to look like Shirley Ann died in a terrible accident while changing a tire. But none of the tires on the car are flat, and shirleyann's hands are very clean, while the tools she would have been using are very dirty. That's the kind of stuff, it's insulting where it's like, you're not gonna even stage this with any energy. You're just gonna put all the things together and be like, it'll work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You don't even. Yeah. Cause you know you can get away with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. On top of that, Shirley is found about a mile from her house. It wouldn't make sense that she wouldn't just walk home instead of attempting to change a car tire.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this is now the fifth suspicious death of someone connected to and actively insured by Reverend Willie Maxwell. By this point, the Reverend has collected around $90,000 from insurers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Would you like to guess how much money that is? This is 1977.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's. How much? 90.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's accrued. It's $90,000 accrued from 1972 to 1970.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In today's money. I'm gonna guess that is 210, 750 thousand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Almost a million dollars.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, that's way off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. When I looked at that number, I was like, whoa. But it's the 70s, which I want to tell myself was 20 years ago, not one. So at this point, the reverend's reputation is fully in the gutter. He is now, basically, his name is like, he's the local boogeyman. Everyone who knows about him can't stop talking about how he is just actively getting away with murder scot free. Many people see him as a criminal, working the system in such a way that he's able to evade the consequences for murder, and he's making money. Others need a better explanation, so they start blaming voodoo and hoodoo. There's some overlap, but they are essentially different things in popular culture. They have been conflated for years because it's from back in the 70s. These two terms are used interchangeably in most of the reporting that Marin found. But it is worth noting that these have been extremely misrepresented in popular culture for a long time. Vodou is a formal religion. It blends traditional West African religious practices with Catholicism, whereas hoodoo is the African American tradition of folk magic and medicine strongly associated with the South. So. So we don't know if Willie practices either hoodoo or voodoo. But as author Casey Sepp explains in Furious Hours, historically, it wouldn't have been that unusual for a black Christian preacher in the rural south to be echoing elements of voodoo in his ministry. In these same rural areas, folk medicine associated with hoodoo, like herbal remedies and poultices, often filled in critical healthcare gaps for both black and white clientele. So by the 1970s, voodoo and hoodoo have been derided and condemned by racist whites for so long, the popular culture comes to misunderstand them as just creepy and nefarious. All that trickles down to the people in Willy Maxwell's world. So they start making all kinds of wild claims about the reverend having supernatural powers. One rumor claimed that he could turn into a black cat at will. They're just trying to explain how somebody could be getting away with this and just like, basically kind of scamming the justice system. Yeah, but ultimately it's because the insurance policies give him money to pay for a lawyer that's fighting for him. It's like, that's how the rich always never go to jail.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll tell you a thing or two about it. So in June of 1977, Willie Maxwell makes the bold choice of attending his stepdaughter Shirley Ann ellington's funeral. About 300 people attend this ceremony. One of the mourners is Shirley Ann's 36 year old uncle, a man named Robert Burns. Robert Burns is known as a very decent man. He's a loving dad. He is a veteran from the Vietnam War. He's very hardworking long haul trucker, A very loyal husband to his wife of eight years, Vera. But Robert is also very close with his niece, Shirley Ann. So during this funeral, he stuns everyone in attendance by pulling out a gun and in front of hundreds of witnesses, shooting 52 year old Reverend Willie Maxwell in the head, killing him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

At the funeral.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, man, I wasn't expecting that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a real turn. Midpoint.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the Reverend's buried one week later. KCSEPP reports, quote, his funeral was one of the most well attended in this part of Alabama. What people say about why they went is to make sure that he was really dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they could see him in the casket and verify that he was actually dead because they didn't think he could be killed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, that's just. Wow. Imagine your beloved niece and you just know who did it. And you know he's gonna get away with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you saw it coming. And he did it to those other women where it's like, Dorcas was just a witness and suddenly she probably got love bombed and pulled in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Y. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Horrible. So now in death, Reverend Willie Maxwell's notoriety has expanded far beyond Alabama, attracting reporters from all over the country. And this is when Harper Lee reads about the Reverend's murder in the newspaper and of course immediately is like, what is going on? I have to know more. So it's a well established fact that Harper Lee is a true crime fanatic. Casey Sepp mentions a quote Lee once gave about the infamous ax murderer Lizzie Borden where she jokingly empathizes with her saying, quote, I know exactly why she did it. Anyone burdened with long petticoats and having had mutton soup for breakfast on a day like that was bound to have murdered somebody before sundown.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yikes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's our girl. That's our Harper Lee. She's just like, got it salty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's a little salty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's a salty lady played by Sandra Bullock in the movie, the Truman Capote movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, right. Interesting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So we know Harper Lee is deeply interested in the themes that lie at the heart of the Reverend story. Things like Southernness, race, vigilantism, and the American justice system. All those themes that ran through to kill A mockingbird. So it's not too surprising that she decides to move down to the Alexander City area so that she can immerse herself in the reverend's world. While living there, Lee interviews several people close to the case. She even develops a friendship with Willie's longtime attorney, Tom Radney, who, in another surprising turn in this saga, winds up defending Robert Burns after he's charged with the reverend's murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, man. This guy's just like, I'll take anyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I think it's like, is he the only lawyer for a thousand miles?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it that feeling he's the only.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One to take black clients? Maybe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe. Could it be that he was like, I was a part of this and this horrible thing happened and now I need to be a part of this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, atonement? Kind of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Maybe balance the scales. Although his client is the one that got murdered. But it's an interesting turn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Tom Radney exchanges extensive notes with Harper Lee, likely with the hopes that she'll write another bestseller that highlights him as a particularly savvy lawy. They also have some fun together. Years later, Tom Rodney's wife Madeline, will describe Harper Lee this way. She'll say, quote, I didn't spend nearly as much time with her as the men did. Harper Lee smoked and drank, and she had several four letter words. She contribute to any conversation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this. These are like Southern women who, like, we will go out on a rock on the porch while you men talk. And hoppily. I can you stay there, too? Sorry, mid quote. But she had this really cute wit about her. She was smart, and I enjoyed just listening to her, just sitting back and listening to the conversation. So she liked it. She was a fan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So when Robert Byrne's trial kicks off In September of 77, he pleads not guilty by reason of insanity. So Tom Rodney is now tasked with one of the most difficult jobs an attorney can have. He not only has to prove Robert's insanity at the time of the reverend's death, which is very hard to do in court, but he also has to defend a client who killed his victim in front of 300 witnesses. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, that's not in question.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. So there's no denying that part. But Rodney is, of course, a very good lawyer, even though PTSD isn't something most people understood at the time, like in the 70s. He relates Robert Byrne's temporary insanity in the courtroom to the trauma he endured while serving in Vietnam.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At the same time, Rodney plays on the Public's anxieties around the power of voodoo, and he uses it to paint the Reverend as basically Robert's complete opposite. As kcsepp puts it, Rodney establishes Willie Maxwell as, quote, the witchiest witch doctor and the voodooiest voodoo priest the south has ever known. A man so mysteriously powerful that no force of law could touch him, and so feared that no neighbor would look him in the eye. So reporting from this time seems to take Tom Rodney's narrative here and run with it, with Willie Maxwell becoming known as, quote, the voodoo priest in some faraway newspapers. Okay, so it's a bit hypocritical to take a turn like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But maybe it's like, hey, I was there in the front lines and, like, got involved with this guy. I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the trial lasts two days. Robert Burns is acquitted of the reverend's murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because the jury ultimately accepts his insanity defense, the courtroom reportedly bursts into applause at the verdict.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that same year, the town of Alexander City names Tom Rodney the Man of the Year.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And just so you get a full sense of Tom Rodney. Cause this is like we're just making comments on this kind of singular thing where it's like, he, of course, probably had a hundred other clients and was, you know. Yeah, whatever. So everyone knows attorney Tom Rodney went on to serve in the Alabama State Legislature, and he was a vocal advocate for civil rights. He passed in 2011 at age 79 after a long illness. So he was the real deal in that way of, like you said, the only lawyer to represent black people at that time, or whatever it was he was doing. He kept doing it after all of this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is good to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And apparently, Robert Burns is still alive and in his 80s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And he talked to Kcsepp as she wrote her book. And he's been quoted by reporters a few times over the past decade.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so interesting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So with that, the story of Reverend Willie Maxwell comes to a close. But we're still not at the end of our story, because the enduring mystery here involves Harper Lee, who, despite all evidence suggesting that she was writing a book on this case, never publishes one. In fact, nothing she wrote in this era has ever surfaced, at least not publicly. So while she was in Alexander City, Harper Lee conducted interviews, including with Robert Burns after his acquittal, which, imagine what that must have been like. She took copious notes. She even sent pages of writing to Tom Radney for him to review. And later, Harper Lee's sister Louise will claim that she read the entire manuscript of the book about this case. And Louise reportedly declared that book to be quoted, better than In Cold Blood.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it was written.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, would her sister lie? Probably not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause she'd want her sister to get the credit of, like, oh, no, she did it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was better than In Cold Blood. Which, speaking of, we know Harper Lee was a very skilled reporter, and she proved this when she helped Truman Capote, her childhood friend from Monroeville, Alabama, report on the death of the clutter family in 1950s Kansas. The subject of the book, In Cold Blood. And that book is a hugely important piece of American literature that helped legitimately true crime as a genre. But we also know Harper Lee's feelings about it were very complicated, mostly because of how close Truman Capote got with one of the murderers in that case. And so author Casey Sepp noted, quote, while on the one hand, Harper Lee seems to have been out to write her own In Cold Blood, there were very distinct ways in which she was trying to do something different. She had real concerns about Capote's book, about journalistic ethics, the role of the reporter, and the way true crime writers can come to sympathize with their subjects.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Interesting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Harper Lee once even wrote to Truman Capote's fact checker at the New Yorker, expressing her fears that while they were working on In Cold Blood, it was, in Harper Lee's words, quote, more novelistic than nonfiction. She'd also written a letter to Gregory Peck, who played Atticus Finch in the movie version of To Kill a Mockingbird. And she said to him, quote, my agent wants pure gore and autopsies. My publisher wants another bestseller, and I want a clear conscience in that I haven't defrauded the reader.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Chutzpah and what's the word I'm looking for? Character.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Yeah. Good standards. Like actually trying to stand for something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, it makes it a little easier. She'd already gone through something before where it's like, probably as they went through the In Cold Blood process, it was like, is this right or wrong?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. This doesn't feel good. But I didn't say anything at the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. She's the researcher. She doesn't get to tell the author what to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then. But she gets to make her own adjustments.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So there's theories on why her book never saw the light of day. That's one of them. That she liked the ethics of it. Some have also speculated she might have been hamstrung by the fear of having to follow up To Kill a Mockingbird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which, Good Lord, I mean, stay sexy and don't get murdered. How do we follow that up? We haven't and we don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Others think she may have had really bad writer's block or that her publishers didn't like the idea of a book that centered around the lives of black people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ultimately, we don't know what happened to Harper Lee's writing about the Reverend Willie Maxwell case. And she will never get a chance to show us or tell us herself. In 2016, at the age of 89, Harper Lee passed away in her sleep. Someday, someone could discover Harper Lee's work from Alexander City.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

After all, many thought that she'd never publish anything after To Kill a Mockingbird. But then her book Go Set a Watchman was released shortly before her death. In the meantime, if you live in or near Alexander City, please go check the dusty corners of your grandparents attics. Because in 2009, a local man bought an encyclopedia from a Salvation army and he found a handwritten note from Harper Lee buried inside. We don't know who the note was written to. It's dated June 11, 1978, and it says this quote. You simply can't beat the people in Alexander City for their warmth, kindness, and hospitality. If I fall flat on my face with this book, I won't be terribly disappointed because of knowing that the time I spent with you was not time lost, but friends gained. This is not remotely goodbye, because I'll be coming back until doomsday. And that is the story of the alleged murders and murder of Willie Maxwell and the lingering mystery around Harper Lee. The Reverend.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Okay. Now I fucking know that story. Thank you. What happened to the book?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The idea that she left a note in an encyclopedia for somebody to discover 40 years later is so badass of her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She knew that feeling.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, I need to write a love letter to the city. But if I do it officially, they'll try to give me something and make it about me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I just want the actual people to know. Yeah. So here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She wants a reader to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And they found treasure. Yeah. Everyone look in your attic and go buy things at garage sales.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And if you live in Alexander City, will you please send us any of your theorized Harper Lee treasure? It's like, I found this manuscript in my grandma's nightstand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was incredible. Great job for a solo. It had everything you'd want and more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how we do these solo episodes. We provide, provide, provide, and we get the hell out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause we fucking sometimes need a moment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you understand this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't understand why. It's been nine and a half years nonstop. It's a lot. A lot of podcasting. We love it. We're not complaining.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We do love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're so grateful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But, man, it's nice to just have, like, two weeks, not worry about stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, you do it from your job. Right? So we're doing it from our job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean. I mean, look, people, we just took a week off. I mean, we do this sometimes. Yeah, but definitely. Any complaints, please write to get that out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you bleep that? My real email address.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, well, this is a special occasion. Cause we're starting to do this thing. We've been doing our hoorays where everybody writes them in on the show. But now today, we're doing it in the car.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're doing the honking Hoorays.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So this is presented by Hyundai. We really appreciate you bringing us here and giving us this lush car to sit in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The gorgeous Ioniq 5.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I drive this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is actually Karen's car.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you want to go first?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure. Okay. My hooray is that today is my one year sober anniversary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's been pretty hard given the state of things, but facing it sober means I can do the work that needs to be done.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's from Instagram. From Avongale's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Doing it even in the midst of full global meltdown.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's important work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's true. It's a hard time to be doing it, but good job, good job, good work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the subject line of this email is, hooray, I'm a PI.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. It says, my hooray is that I just completed my associate's degree in biology and got a job as a private investigator. Gator. Those are different.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So cool, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is very. This is a person who's living the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Full range of life, multifaceted.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've been listening since I was 14. I'm now 21. What? How?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why is that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Math. Right? And working. It's like liar. And working on my bachelor's degree in forensic science. Thank you for helping me find my future career. Hopefully working in DNA testing. There was no name sign on this, but Molly, our producer Molly, has a theory that they left their name off because they're a P.I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh. Because they're smart. That is so badass.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Amazing job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, this is an email. It says, tonight I'm sitting crisscross applesauce on the floor of my new home folding laundry while my future husband and the love of my life is putting our baby girl to sleep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Two different people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No questions.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry. Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So many people have thanked you over the years for your kindness and your advocacy and your willingness to talk about mental health. So I am just another one in the bunch. But it's a large part because of you and because of this community that I made it here and that my children are here. Hooray. Melanie. Heart emoji. And then it says P S. My husband suggested naming our next child Son after his father, Gary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Baby Gary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Baby Gary. It says I simply cannot. Lol.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think if you name your child Gary, we have merch for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There is merch waiting for you if.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You send us the birth certificate and proof.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That you named your child Gary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We need pictures of the face. Yeah, we need pictures of the feet and the birth. Okay, this email, the subject line is Hooray. A dog, a dude, an angle. And it says Hiya. After 33 years of being a hopeless non romantic, last year, against all odds, I somehow met and fell for a sweet, charmingly befuddled Englishman and fellow teacher living in Tucson, Arizona. So naturally, after only a few months of dating, he told me he decided to move back to the UK at the end of the school year. Well, cut to the hooray. I packed up most of my life and moved to England this past New Year's Eve.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

While it turns out that teaching is brutally hard on both sides of the Atlantic, I'm loving building a little British life with this kind and unexpected man. But the real hooray. I'm riding this from the airport on my way back to the States to reunite with my dog, my best friend of nearly nine years, to finally bring him back across the pond with me. You'd not believe the hoops required to move a dog to the uk, but I'm endlessly grateful to my wonderful sister for taking care of my Henry while I figured it all out. Stay sexy and choose adventure over pragmatism every now and then. Katie, I love that I want to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Add little British life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Build that British life. Fill it with scones and be fuddlement.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, this is from her email. Hi, my MFM Queens. My hooray is that March marked four years being a registered nurse.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Before my nursing career, I was a teacher for four years and slowly fell into a deep depression. In 2018, I made the decision to go back to school for nursing and I haven't looked back since. Now I have four years in as an RN and I'm happier than ever. It's never too late to change your life around. Hooray, Christina.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, Christina. Yeah, that's so true. Never too late. Also, if she just becomes a stand up comedian now, she's done every job in my family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, and fireman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, this is a combo because it's a comment on episode 479. No bangs. They also folded Hooray in here from Instagram and it says going through a really hard phase of life. But the joy from my kids is getting me through it. I got them new PJs the other day and my 2 year old goes, dinosaurs. Yay. I could have cried. So hooray for dinosaurs and amazing little humans. And that's Shivello 7.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so sweet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so sweet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Imagine having little children that bring you joy. What's that like?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What are we talking about?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's it. Wow, you've done it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right. Well, thank you, Hyundai, and thank you listeners for sending in your hoorays.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been an Exactly Right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our Researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Follow the show on Instagram at My Favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to My favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now you can watch us on exactly right's YouTube page while you're there. Please like and subscribe. Subscribe. Goodbye.