484 - Copse of Trees

Summary

Podcast Summary: "My Favorite Murder" Episode 484 - Copse of Trees

Hosts: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Release Date: June 12, 2025
Network: Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts
Episode Title: Copse of Trees

---

Introduction to the Elizabeth Smart Case

In this emotionally charged episode, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark delve deep into the harrowing true crime story of Elizabeth Smart—a tale of abduction, survival, and resilience. Drawing from Elizabeth's autobiography, My Story, and the accompanying docu-series Autobiography Elizabeth Smart, the hosts provide a comprehensive overview of the events that unfolded in June 2002 in Salt Lake City, Utah.

---

The Night of the Kidnapping

On the night of June 6, 2002, fourteen-year-old Elizabeth Smart was brutally abducted from her family home. Sharing a bedroom with her nine-year-old sister, Mary Catherine, Elizabeth was awakened by a man dressed in black who threatened her with a knife, forcing her to comply with his demands.

Karen (02:06): "Can I tell you something sad? Yeah, I don't know what to do with. There was a dead crow in my pool this morning."

The incident left the Smart family in a state of shock and fear, with immediate questions about her family's safety and Elizabeth's fate.

---

Initial Search Efforts and Media Involvement

The Smart family's initial response involved calling the police and mobilizing a massive search effort. However, early investigations were marred by inexperience among the responding officers, leading to critical oversights.

Georgia (19:14): "Yeah."

As the media frenzy intensified, Elizabeth's disappearance quickly became a national story, akin to the high-profile JonBenét Ramsey case.

---

Elizabeth's Captivity and Struggle for Survival

Elizabeth endured six weeks of unspeakable abuse at the hands of her captors, Brian David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee. During this time, she was subjected to daily sexual assaults and was forced into a pseudo-religious environment that aimed to strip her of her identity and sense of self-worth.

Georgia (22:52): "It's horrible."

Despite the constant trauma, Elizabeth's unwavering faith and inner strength played pivotal roles in her survival. Her ability to manipulate her captors led to a pivotal moment when she convinced them to return to Utah, setting the stage for her eventual rescue.

---

Breakthroughs in the Investigation

Four months after Elizabeth's abduction, a breakthrough emerged when her sister, Mary Catherine, came forward with a crucial piece of information. She identified the voice of the kidnapper, leading the family to believe that the true perpetrator was still at large.

Karen (36:05): "It's just extraordinary."

This revelation prompted the Smart family to take matters into their own hands, ultimately releasing a sketch of the suspect to the media—a bold move that reignited public interest and led to increased pressure on law enforcement.

---

Rescue and Aftermath

On March 12, 2003, enhanced by persistent media coverage and public vigilance, authorities apprehended Mitchell and Barzee. Elizabeth was found alive, though deeply traumatized by her ordeal. Her formal identification during the arrest was a moment of immense relief and national triumph.

Georgia (42:14): "I mean, I hope that the process has changed since that time."

Following her rescue, Elizabeth and her family faced the daunting task of healing and rebuilding their lives. Elizabeth's resilience shone through as she pursued higher education, embarked on an LDS mission trip to Paris, and met her future husband.

---

Legal Proceedings and Lingering Challenges

Mitchell faced a protracted legal battle, culminating in his conviction in 2011 for interstate kidnapping and unlawful transportation of a minor, resulting in a life sentence. Meanwhile, Wanda Barzee, who played a more active role in Elizabeth's captivity, was sentenced to 15 years in prison but remained a controversial figure even after her release.

Karen (44:14): "She's been brutalized ritualistically. She's not in a place where she can be like, here's I'm gonna stand up and be strong."

Elizabeth's advocacy work emerged as a beacon of hope, focusing on supporting victims of sexual assault and pushing for legislative changes to improve child protection measures.

---

Elizabeth Smart's Advocacy and Personal Growth

Twenty years after her abduction, Elizabeth has transformed her traumatic experience into a powerful platform for change. Through the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, she champions the rights and recovery of sexual assault victims, emphasizing the importance of self-worth and resilience.

Georgia (47:12): "It's been 20 years, so it's like, that's a person who took their time in doing that and built her life back up by her own standards. It's really cool and really impressive."

Her father's courageous decision to publicly come out as gay further highlights the family's journey towards healing and acceptance, challenging societal norms and advocating for LGBTQ+ rights within the context of their religious community.

---

Conclusion and Reflections

Karen and Georgia conclude the episode by lauding Elizabeth Smart's remarkable strength and unwavering dedication to helping others. They reflect on the broader implications of Elizabeth's story, emphasizing themes of perseverance, the importance of community support, and the critical role of advocacy in overcoming personal trauma.

Karen (47:19): "You can't do it."

Georgia (47:28): "It's been 20 years, so it's like, that's a person who took their time in doing that and built her life back up by her own standards."

This episode serves not only as a recounting of a harrowing true crime case but also as an inspiring testament to human resilience and the capacity for individuals to transform their darkest experiences into powerful agents of change.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff (09:36): "So today's story is about a kidnapping in June of 2002 in Salt Lake City, which can only mean one thing."

• Georgia Hardstark (12:17): "This is the rarest, rarest kind of a true crime, right? This is. The stranger abduction is so rare, and it's just so creepy, and it's like everyone's worst nightmare."

• Karen Kilgariff (22:03): "So the answer is, you know, no one knows how they'll react in a situation that's so traumatic. So shut the fuck up."

• Karen Kilgariff (47:19): "You can't do it."

---

Final Thoughts:

Episode 484 of "My Favorite Murder" masterfully balances the grim realities of Elizabeth Smart's abduction with an uplifting narrative of survival and advocacy. Karen and Georgia's empathetic storytelling ensures that listeners gain a profound understanding of the emotional and societal impacts of such traumatic events, while also celebrating the extraordinary resilience of a young woman who turned her nightmare into a mission of hope and healing.

Transcript

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is exactly right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Think an EV can't fit your family, your gear and your sanity? Think again. The Hyundai Ioniq 9 is Hyundai's first three row all electric SUV. So yes, you finally get space and an EV. It has class leading interior space, purposeful tech and the rear wheel drive S trim gets an EPA estimated 335 miles on a full charge. Actual range will vary. Learn more about the Ionic 9 at Hyundai USA.com, call 562-314-4603 for complete details. Goodbye. When your to do list feels endless, let Audible turn it into a mini adventure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You'll be the Robinson Crusoe of vacuuming.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can dive in to Never Flinch by Stephen King or you can get hooked on Mad Love, an Audible original that keeps you guessing with every chapter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With thousands of titles and originals, Audible keeps your brain entertained while you tackle real life style.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Start listening and discover what's beyond the edge of your seat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

New members can try Audible now free for 30 days and dive into a world of new thrills.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Visit Audible.com murder or text murder to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

500500 that's Audible.com murder or text MURDER to 500500 Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you know an American Home Shield warranty helps protect items in your home that you use every day?

[Georgia Hardstark]

If covered parts of your H vac, electrical, plumbing or appliances break, American Home Shield will fix or replace them, no matter their age.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can save on an new plan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Today, our listeners get 20% off any plan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Visit ahs.commfm to sign up and see promo details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

See ahs.comcontracts for coverage details, including limit amounts, fees, limitations and exclusions. Goodbye, my savior.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Georgia Hardstark.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Karen Kilgariff. Can I tell you something sad? Yeah, I don't know what to do with. There was a dead crow in my pool this morning. No. Is that a bad omen for me or for the crow?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it's definitely for the crow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And are all the other crows in the neighborhood gonna think that we killed their.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, they don't think you're responsible for the pool. I bet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But what if they. What if they're flying over when I was trying to get them out and it looked like I was drowning?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're afraid the crows are coming for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like after everything I've done for those crows.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. I mean, they gotta have some good faith in your participation. But what did you do with the crow's body?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I left it for Vince to deal with good cause.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Then he's gonna look it up to be like, what do crows want you to do in this situation?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, Right. I don't know. Have a bonfire. But I don't know. It was so disturbing. And also like, how did it die? Why? Is there something more we should worry about? I'm not going in that pool ever again, so we should probably move.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure. I think you should make a bunch of decisions like that based on this. Don't look anything up. Don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was so sad and disturbing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's awful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was like hoping it was just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah. That's rough. Also, it's like, I think the connection of like birds and omens and stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And a crow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Of all fucking things, like, and then your favorite. So it's almost like. That's very sad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is worse? That or when I found the dug up cremains of a pet in my front yard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think that this crow is worse because the crow is like, the cremains were like a bag of something. And then you're just like, what? But. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know. Viewers, will you vote at home? Which is worse.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is worse than Georgia's boob. And then describe how it's worse for Georgia, what you think is going to be happening to her. Like a witch knocks at your door. Did you drown my crow?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have had birds flying to the house and I always was taught or heard that birds in the house are very bad luck. Like that they.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Moths are good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Foretelled moths are good. But I mean, but here's the thing. It's like the way my house is. There's windows at the back and front and birds think it's a throughway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I've had so many birds in my house that at this point I'm just like, I can't. It's not proving out to be a real thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, that's good to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But I just. It's. It's like, be careful about birds. Be careful about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, be kind to birds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Be kind to birds. Can you throw out a couple sparkly things for them to be happy about?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll do that. Yeah. Or dog treats. They like dog treats. They give me sparkly things, Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I guess that's true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Give them dog treats.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I thought they liked sparkly things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll give them sparkly things, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Throw a diamond out there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Throw a diamond. Here's my wedding ring.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry for your friend. The loss of a friend is very difficult.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So we're gonna follow through on something we've talked about in the past.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you believe it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So a couple weeks ago, I gave Karen a book, a self help book. And we decided we're going to do self help book club. And so we just want to remind you guys to pick up this book if you want to follow along. It's called Emotional agility. Get unstuck, embrace change and thrive in work and life by Susan David. So while we're on our little vacation, we're going to both read that. Probably, maybe. Or you'll never hear about it again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're going to do it because people want a book club of some kind and we can at least approach it. And I did like your original idea, which is read it and then you say what you learned and I'll say what I learned.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And the next time you pick one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, exactly. And people can write in. But also, who recommended that book to you first? Your therapist?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, it was on one of those like 10 books that'll change your life lists.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So are you ready to have your life changed?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm ready and willing. I need it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay then. I'm excited about this. Cause I'm interested in reading this book, but I just don't make time for reading, so it will make me do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You have to take that book with me on my break and then get through it and treat it as homework.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you don't do it, a crow will die.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, we will drown a crow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Drown one crow for every.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're just like outside drinking your coffee like kids. Today is going to be a great day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anything else?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think so. Should we just talk about our network?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure. Yeah. Let's talk about our podcast network called my favorite. Nope, called exactly right media.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. Well, this is kind of breaking news about the fan cults. We basically we're taking new members because we're now offering ad free audio which people have been asking us for for years and years. We've been at different companies that offer it here and there, whatever. But we now offer it ourselves. You just have to join the fan cult.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. It's not a big deal. Just do it. And this is your last chance, this is your last warning to join the fan cult right now at a discounted price. So now through Friday, June 13, you can get the old price of just 3.33amonth for the you're in a cult tier and $8 a month for the call your dad tier. So go to fancult super.com to join.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. $8 a month. Or there's a. The yearly is actually less than what, $8 a month would add up to which.

[Karen Kilgariff]

$80. Yeah, it's a deal all around.

[Georgia Hardstark]

8 times 12 is 80?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I think it's cheaper. I don't know. 96. Okay, so it's. Yeah. So there's a discount all. All around. You want to pay for the year? You'll get an even bigger discount.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. We're trying to point out that we're passing the savings along to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm Crazy Larry. I've got to get rid of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't do basic multiplication. I'm Crazy Larry. I can't tell you how much 12 times 8 is. That's too bad, Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But guess what we can tell you about merch.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause we have this cute pin to show you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. This cute pin that actually sold out almost immediately when we put it out last time. So look at that. Look at the action on that pin. You can figure out what mood you're in. It's the MFM mood pin. And what are those emotions?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. Are you. Stay out of the forest. Are you. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Are you. Here's the thing. Fuck everyone. Or are you. This is terrible. Keep going. You just spin this little hand that has an MFM on it and it tells you what you are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's like. If you want to only communicate through these pins, we support you entirely. And just throw it right over to. Go fuck yourselves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it. That's very cute.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So go to exactlyrightstore.com to order those pins. Get yours now before they're all sold out again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll love them. They're going to sell out. You've got the Home Shopping Network thing down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what? I love merch. And I love getting through a solo episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. You don't have to do jack shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no. It's the best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Okay, now it's work time for me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Do you need anything from me?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I think I'm okay. Just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What about, like, weird, steely stare?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, definitely. Like, stare me down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Make me really uncomfortable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Or I'm gonna do the thing. The second you look up, I'm gonna look down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just retrieve your papers or something like that. Or something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just a lot of under audio.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Get serious. This is a serious one. Yep. It's a heavy hitter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't want to do it until I read the autobiography about it, and I did. So today's story is about a kidnapping in June of 2002 in Salt Lake City, which can only mean one thing. This is the kidnapping and survival story of Elizabeth Smart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's her version of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, it's called My Story. I read it. It's incredible, brilliant. It's just like, so moving. And then there's also a docu series that she's in called Autobiography Elizabeth Smart. And then the rest of their sources can be found in the show notes. Here we are. It's June 6, 2002. Do you know this one well or not? Well, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I know it enough to, like, if you asked me, I think I would pass a test.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's the one with that. But you don't know, like, the details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, but here's one detail I do remember. Kind of separate is our first show in Salt Lake City. Remember the audience member that gave us the picture where it was Elizabeth Smart at the party?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. I'm gonna get to that. It's so fucking crazy. It's so crazy. And then. And then also, like, I always. I used to think of the J.C. dugard story as well, which I also read her autobiography. So they're very different, although they're similar in a lot of ways as well. So it's June 6, 2002. It's a warm, quiet night in the Federal Heights neighborhood of Salt Lake City, Utah. Obviously, Federal Heights sits at the foothills of the Wasatch Mountains, perched above the downtown area. So there's a lot of like, you know, mountainous terrain and how beautiful nature is in Utah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Incredible. Remember that view out that hotel we got to stay at?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely not. Yes, yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The mountains and then the fog rolled in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. You know what I remember is that they had. I remember the food.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we just had an. Or maybe it was just my room. Maybe you were on the other side.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I had it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I faced the mountain range and then watched a storm front come over the mountain range and change the entire view and then go away. And I was like, this is unbelievable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love weather. It's just. We don't have it here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's really cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this is where the Smart family lives. Ed and Lois Smart have six children, four boys and two girls. Elizabeth is the second oldest child and the oldest girl, the big sister. She's 14 years old and she's asleep in the room she shares with her nine year old sister, Mary Catherine. At about two in the morning, Elizabeth opens her eyes to what Seems like a nightmare. But within a few minutes, she realizes it's real. It's a man standing in their bedroom, dressed all in black. And then he's standing over her, and she feels something cold and sharp against her neck. And he says, quote, I have a knife to your throat. Don't make a sound. Get out of bed or I'll kill you and your family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the rarest, rarest kind of a true crime, right? This is. The stranger abduction is so rare, and it's just so creepy, and it's like everyone's worst nightmare.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then imagine you're a kid and you're in a house of eight people, including sharing a room with your little sister.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just unfathomable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's unfathomable. And it's similar to polyclass. Exactly. Like, taken out of a place where everyone is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Feels safe. Yeah, totally. So Elizabeth says, quote, it really seemed like, either do what he says and go with him or have your net cut open and die. End quote. The man makes Elizabeth get out of bed. He makes her get her sneakers. She asks him why he's doing this, and he says, quote, I'm taking you hostage for ransom. End quote. So as she's being walked through the hallway of her home, Elizabeth silently prays that her parents will wake up and come rescue her. But she also worries that the man has already killed her family. She doesn't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's definitely a possibility. So she only knows for sure that her little sister, who she shares a room with, is still alive, and she wants to keep it that way. And so she complies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The house remains silent, and the man walks Elizabeth out the sliding glass door to the backyard. Elizabeth's house is at the base of a mountain. There's one more residential street behind the house, and after that, there's just a trail that goes uphill. This story has so many moments of close calls of her being rescued that it's so frustrating. And this immediately is one of them, because the cop car drives by and doesn't see anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nightmare.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So the man leads her uphill with the knife at her back. She tries on multiple occasions to bargain with him, saying that her parents will pay this ransom that he said he's after and that they won't press charges. She gets to a point where she tells him that if his plan is to rape and kill her, he should just do it here, right there, because she wants her parents to be able to find her body. I know. Elizabeth says that. He then smiles which is a look that chills her to the bone. And he says, quote, I'm not going to rape and kill you yet. End quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think most of us have seen pictures of this man, and it is, like, so sinister to think of it this way, where he's like, truly looks like a boogeyman. He's like, confusing looking and very like, almost like ancient looking and creepy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like someone that if you saw on the street, you would avoid as a woman. As a woman alone on the street, you would not be comfortable walking past this person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that guy smiling in the woods of like and saying that sentence is like, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Horrifying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is. So at daybreak, as they're still walking, Elizabeth gets a better look at her captor, and she realizes that she recognizes him. He's a man who did yard work at her family's house for one day. Months earlier, he had introduced himself as Emmanuel, and when she had met him, he had been clean shaven. And now he has a long scraggly beard. But she can tell it's definitely him. The family had first met Emmanuel on a street corner in downtown Salt Lake City in the fall of 2001. About eight months prior, the kids and Lois the mom, had been back to school, school shopping, and they saw him panhandling. And they are a charitable family. So the boys, the smart boys, asked their mom if there was any work that they could give him around the house. And she gives him a $5 bill and says that, you know, there is work for you to do if you around the house for money, if you can come. Elizabeth later writes, quote, what I didn't know, but would later learn was that he had been watching me very carefully as we walked toward him. He had taken the opportunity to study me further. As my mom searched her purse, he remembered everything about me. The clothes I was wearing, my blonde hair, the way I looked up at my mother, the color of my eyes. And though he was careful not to show it, he decided that moment that I was the one. Like he was already looking to prey on someone. When the smart family does wind up hiring Emmanuel to rake leaves and repair the roof at their house, he learns where she lives. That way, he spends the next couple of months devising his plan to kidnap Elizabeth. Emmanuel's actual name is Brian David Mitchell, and at this point, he's about 49 years old. Elizabeth makes it clear in her book that everything she's learned about him has been against her will. So we won't talk too much about him. But she briefly Outlines how he has a history of substance abuse. And as a teenager, he had been charged for exposing himself to a younger child. He had been married three times and had three 13 children and stepchildren.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And among those children were other charges of abuse. So this is just a bad, bad man. Back to that morning when they get to the top of the mountain. They walk into a densely wooded area. And then Elizabeth sees a campsite. Mitchell calls out a name. It's Hepzibah. Then Elizabeth hears a woman's voice yelling his name Emmanuel in return. And then an eerie looking woman steps out of the tent. I always think of the Princess Bride when. Yeah, the witch. Yeah. She has messy, stringy, long gray hair and she's wearing a set of white robes. Like, how chilling for out in the world to see.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is like a Grimm's fairy tale gone totally wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then. Yeah. And then also seeing a woman. There's like a part of you where it's like, oh, maybe I'm saved because it's not just this creepy man with humor. But immediately realizing that's not the case.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's like crawling out of a well basically of just like, this is as scary as it can be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. This woman is Wanda Barzee. She's in her late 50s and she's Mitchell's third wife. Barzee had also been previously married, has six children, but she relinquished her parental rights when she met and married Mitchell. So as Mitchell and Elizabeth enter the campsite, Barzi envelops Elizabeth in a hug that feels more menacing than comforting. So one thing that neither Elizabeth nor her captors realized is that Elizabeth's little sister, 9 year old Mary Catherine, had actually woken up and seen almost the whole kidnapping.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't know that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. I know. Elizabeth and Mary Catherine are very close. Every night, Elizabeth reads out loud from a chapter book to her little sister. On the night of the kidnapping, they had been in the middle of Ella Enchanted. Right after Elizabeth is taken out of her room, she attempts to go wake up her parents. But she gets freaked out thinking that Elizabeth and her captor are still there. So she runs back to her room and hides under the covers and stays there for about two hours until she can get the courage to go wake up her parents.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The fact that she could go and do it at all is unbelievable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That is the scariest thing. A man with a fucking knife in your room.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Takes your sister.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The idea that she wasn't just stuck there till the morning is she's incredible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When she gets the nerve to wake her parents and tells them Elizabeth has been taken. The three of them go downstairs together, and when Lois turns on the lights, she immediately sees an open kitchen window and that the screen at the window had been sliced open. And she starts screaming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Unfortunately, the situation unfolds similarly to in the JonBenet Ramsey case, and it's mistakes that are immediately made. Ed calls the police, but he also calls lots of friends and family members, obviously, to come help look for his daughter Elizabeth. But the inexperienced graveyard shift police officers that first show up don't lock down the house. And pretty quickly every last inch of it has been completely trampled.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now, I could totally be wrong. I had no idea. It seems to me you want the experienced people on the night shift. It's nighttime. Shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can we have the experienced people on the all shifts?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good point. But I guess the answer is no. So if we had to split it. Can't the inexperienced people do stuff during the day?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Bad things happen at night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's when the evils come out. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I hear you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someone's like. And the actual fact of that is at 4 o' clock is the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's all bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's all bad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

By the time an experienced detective gets there at 6am, he says that Elizabeth's room and the rest of the house is, quote, contaminated beyond all hope. So all members of the Smart family are questioned individually by police, of course. And Mary Catherine recounts what she saw. She says she believes she heard Elizabeth's captor say the word ransom, which she's right, he did say, although he was lying. Ed Smart's brother, the dad's brother, works for the Deseret News, which is one of the main newspapers in Utah. So later that day, the Smarts appear before the media, and Ed's brother gets Elizabeth's photo out and storied out to all the national news outlets. And it's a huge story immediately on cable news. By that evening, you know, we have to say it's a beautiful blonde, blonde girl who goes missing from a, you know, religious family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So in the mid 2000s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, right, 2002. Meanwhile, we're back at this campsite and the woman Elizabeth knows now as Hetzibah washes Elizabeth's feet, almost like a ritual thing, and then forces Elizabeth to change out of her red pajamas into a set of white robes similar to what she's wearing. And this. It's so hard to read her account of this, but it's incredible that she was able to express herself. Elizabeth is left alone in the tent and Emanuel comes back in. He's now wearing a similar set of robes. And he performs what he tells Elizabeth is a marriage ceremony. And afterwards he rapes her. Just immediately after kidnapping her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. That's the only reason he did it. I mean, like the idea that he is roped in some woman to somehow ritualize. That is disgusting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And thinking about God somehow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the most evil fucking thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus is the one who washed people's feet. You can get up because no one's buying that from you, ma' am.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So gross.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so Elizabeth is a member of the LDS Church, of course, and writes about how her faith helped her survive her terrible ordeal. But in the years since her kidnapping, she's also become a vocal critic of the purity culture in which she was raised. It's really interesting because she had grown up being told that her worth was tied to her virginity. It was taken away from her forcefully. And then she immediately felt worthless. And she doesn't think that that's fair.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

After she was raped, she says that she struggled with a sense of worthlessness that immediately followed. And it made her almost reluctant to seek help during different points in her captivity. Like she didn't feel worth saving anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She says she thought, quote, why would it even be worth screaming out? Why would it even make a difference if you are rescued, your life still has no value. End quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's weird that that's the message coming from a religion.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It just is. So it just isn't. Because who does that actually affect? They're not saying that the man has no value. It's the woman. Always.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. On many occasions, Elizabeth has criticized the abstinence only education she was given, which when she was experiencing the worst suffering of her life, made her think of herself as, quote, a chewed up piece of gum. So she's fighting against that, which is incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Mitchell puts a wire cable around Elizabeth's ankle and he then attaches that to a tree so there's no opportunity for her to try to run away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry, really quick. But that just that linking all of that together. This is why I'm so excited that she wrote an autobiography. Because that idea of. I never thought about that at the purity culture. Cause there was the time where before she was actually found, where they took film of her walking down the street with them. It's like, why would she do this? And it's like instead of actually finding out why, it was just people wanting to scream like, well, she must have wanted to be with her or something instead of, like, track it to why she would be feeling that way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, she was already indoctrinated in this religious practice ideology and believed this thing about herself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's. The answer's right there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, and the answer is, you know, no one knows how they'll react in a situation that's so traumatic. So shut the fuck up. Yeah, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're just saying shut the fuck up. So no more questions.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, Karen. Okay, so at the bottom of the mountain, a massive search effort mobilizes to look for Elizabeth. Around 10,000 volunteers show up to help. It's a huge story. On the third day of Elizabeth's disappearance, after not sleeping ed, her father suffers a breakdown and is briefly hospitalized. But the search efforts continue on that same day, while at the campsite, Elizabeth actually hears her name called out by searchers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is elated, thinking she's gonna be rescued. But she's sitting right in between Mitchell and Barzi at the campsite. Mitchell picks up a knife and says he'll kill her if she makes any noise. And to Elizabeth's horror, the voices fade and she doesn't ever hear anyone searching for her again. Except she does hear helicopters flying right above the campsite, which is like. It's shaking the tent, it's so close. But it's hidden by a dense crop. Cop. Overgrowth of trees. Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What were you trying to say?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Crop.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, crop.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, no, Cops. What is it? I've been reading too many fucking Scottish books lately. Cops, Crops.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cops. The TV show? No, one of my favorites.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cops of trees. Yes, thank you. I've literally been reading Irish and Scottish books lately.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How do you spell cops?

[Karen Kilgariff]

C O, R, P, S. Right, C O, P, S, E. That's it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

C, P, S, E. I literally have never heard that word before. Okay, amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think I only read it, which is why I didn't know how to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what happens to readers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so over the coming weeks, the Smart family, they come under scrutiny at first, but soon the focus falls on a man who did some construction work around the Smart house also. But it's a different man completely. This man had a criminal history and possibly had stolen from the Smarts while working on their house. Like he's a good looking suspect for this crime. He's also accused of breaking and entering and stealing in other homes around the neighborhood. But Mary Catherine, Elizabeth's little sister, tells her parents she is positive that he is not the person she saw in her room. The night of Elizabeth's disappearance. But of course she's nine. And they're like, huh, shut the fuck up. You know what I mean?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want Mary Catherine's autobiography now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Seriously.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean a nine year old that has, is, has to like fight for her sister.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What do you hear what she says?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm definitely crying during this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then about six weeks after Elizabeth's kidnapping, while this other dude is in custody being questioned, Mitchell tells Elizabeth that he's going to kidnap Elizabeth's cousin. Elizabeth had casually brought up her cousin in a previous conversation, which is how Mitchell had come up with the idea. So Elizabeth's cousin, who is around the same age as Elizabeth, named Olivia. Fifty days after Elizabeth's abduction, the Wright family basically they awaken to someone trying to climb through a window in their house, had cut the screen just like at Elizabeth's house. But Elizabeth's cousin Olivia had actually been sleeping on the floor of her parents bedroom at the time. Because everyone is so freaked out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Freaked out, oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

However, her sister would have been asleep in the bedroom if Mitchell had made it in, but he didn't. They woke up and chased him off. So the guy that they think did it is in custody when that happens. Right. So like maybe it's not him. No. Police are not convinced at the time that they have the wrong guy. But at the same time you can't be like, that's great that they kept, you know what I mean? Like it could have been a copycat. We're talking shit. Cause now we know that it's him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hindsight.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he's still a suspect for a reason.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. And I mean it's that idea of like if you have a person that's checking seven of the 10 boxes. Yeah. You can't just be like, yeah, that's right. Something else happened similar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. We would have been talking shit on that if that was the case. Right. So. But the smart family, they totally believe it. Means the kidnapper is still at large. And since he knew about Olivia, the cousin, like specifically that that might mean that Elizabeth is still alive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because she talked about her, which just gives some hope.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So back at the campsite, Elizabeth is sexually abused nearly every day. Mitchell calls Elizabeth by a different name. Sheerzhub is her name. Some biblical. It's an obscure Old testament reference. He forces her to drink alcohol, which is against her religion. He also makes her talk in a biblical way with lots of thees and thou's and cops of trees.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cops of trees. Will you please say cops of trees? Instead of forest, she's just like, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Elizabeth spends a total of six weeks tied to that tree at the campsite before Mitchell and Barzi decide to start making regular trips down into Salt Lake City as a group.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So she just has to, for almost two months, just camp with these psychos and stay alive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And get sexually assaulted and raped on the daily. That's such a long time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's horrible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, this is just so brazen. They take her with them. They all wear their white robes, but Barzi and Elizabeth cover their hair and faces with white veils so only their eyes can be seen. They look like some kind of religious fundamentalists, which stands out even in Salt Lake City, where everyone is. And Elizabeth says that people would just quickly look away uncomfortably whenever they passed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On one occasion, they're at a grocery store and the cashier invites them to a house party. And they go. It's a house that regularly hosts events for the Salt Lake City counterculture scene, which is, like, kind of punk, you know? And there's usually a performance art element to these events. So they see these people who obviously have these certain beliefs and like, hey, come to, like, come to our party. These guys would be cool to talk to. Or this guy. Cause the women don't speak. So they invite him. And they are photographs of them at the party, like you said. And like, hindsight, of course, you look at the photo, it's like a closeup. And it's so clearly her to us. And I mean, it's just so heartbreaking and hard to look at. And you can't help but be like, if I were there, I would have done this and that. But you wouldn't have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, and like, there's a picture of him talking to a girl. She's like, I'll tatt it up. She looks like a murderino. She looks very cool. She's probably like. Has her sensors up. And I'm sure she's just like, I should have known. Cause they do later talk about feeling guilty that they didn't figure it out, of course.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it's like, first of all, 2002 is a time of great toxicity in our culture in general. And so that idea of, like, I have an inkling of something and I'm worried about it, but everyone stayed quiet with everything because there was no kind of. Here's a pattern. If you call the cops or if you're gonna try to draw attention to something as a woman by yourself, here's how it's gonna go. Everyone's Gonna say you're crazy and weird and not go with you. And I think so many women had experienced that, whereas 20 girls. You literally have to like, look up and give somebody a look and people will be like, hey girl, what's up? You're coming with us. Like the hand gestures down, it's changed profoundly. Whereas before it was like, you don't want to step out of line even at like a punk party.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. And on this occasion at the party, 14 year old Elizabeth just is too stunned and scared by all the people to say anything. Again. She had been two months of extreme trauma. She's just scared. However, Mitchell is so disruptive and obnoxious that they even. They can't stand him and they kick him out of the party.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're like, we like stuff like that here and we hate you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like you're the worst person. Get the fuck out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On another occasion. Okay. And so this is the thing too. Cause those party attendees say they feel haunted by the fact that they didn't realize that it was Elizabeth. But on another occasion In August of 2002, two months after Elizabeth's kidnapping, the group goes to the Salt Lake City Public Library to research places they can spend the winter. And when they're there, a library patron actually looks closely at Elizabeth in her veil. And that person recognize her from just her eyes in the slit of her veil. Because it's a huge story. It's one of their own who's gone missing. Immediately, he thinks it's her. That person calls the police. That person's clearly a hero. The person tells them it's Elizabeth Smart at his library. And a homicide detective comes. Long story short, he lets them go. He questions them. He claims, Mitchell claims that Elizabeth is his daughter and that she keeps her face covered for religious reasons. So you can't ask her to show her face. And while this is happening, Elizabeth is standing there and she's worried that if she speaks out, the detective might not believe her and she'll be punished or killed because of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, yes. She's been brutalized ritualistically. She's not in a place where she can be like, here's I'm gonna stand up and be strong. It's like, no, she needs that cop. That's that kind of thing. And it's like, this isn't based on anything except for in a situation like that, letting him dictate terms fucks you every time. Because he's absolutely going to do the thing that covers his ass. So if it's like, no Sorry, you simply can't do that for our religious reasons. It's like grab that female librarian, go into that room and make her take separate. Take this off. Like do the thing that's most respectful but at the same time get your answer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how the J.C. duggard case was solved is because someone wouldn't mind their own business. Yep, it's the exact same thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you know Adrienne, my sister's friend. Adrienne's mother in law.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She didn't mind her own business as a parole officer who went and checked there and said bad stuff is happening there, you need to go rate it. And they wouldn't listen to her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pushpakalasingham, you're a queen. You're the best. She's the one that used to say to Nora, when Nora when she was little and said when she grew up she wanted to be a cheerleader. And Pushpa would go, don't be a cheerleader, be a doctor. I told you that story before. And now we're back to the Elizabeth Smart case.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So somehow Mitchell is able to walk free after this interaction, this happening. Also like doubled down to her that you're stuck here, you're lost, do not say anything. You know what I mean? It like just reinforced all of that for her. So right around the same time that prime suspect, who Mary Catherine had said wasn't the guy, dies of an aneurysm. Is that suspish? Because so many investigators were convinced that this man had kidnapped and killed Elizabeth, it deflates a lot of people's hope that Elizabeth will ever be found. Elizabeth's family, who believe her kidnapper wasn't that guy and is still at large, worry the police will quit looking. By September of 2002, Mitchell, Barzee and Elizabeth, they've relocated to San Diego and they're camping at a new site in a wetland outside the city. Elizabeth nicknames this area the Fire Swamp because it looks exactly like the Fire Swamp from the movie the Princess Bride. Yeah, she's just a kid.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, so back to Mary Catherine. It's been four months and she's just constantly going over in her head what happened, what she saw and heard. The night of her big sister's disappearance. In October of 2002, Ed Smart is tucking his now 10 year old daughter Mary Catherine into bed and she says, I think I know whose voice I heard that night. It just comes to her. She says she thinks it's Emmanuel, the unhoused man they had hired for yard work. A year earlier.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She just remembers. Suddenly some little piece in her brain clicks together and she remembers the exact correct person. How? Like that's just extraordinary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The whole family remembers him. And they remember meeting him in downtown Salt Lake. They remember the one day he came to work on their roof in late 2001. They remember that he talked a lot about his ministry work, like how he said he liked to preach at homeless shelters. And they remember that he was supposed to come back the next day to finish the job. But he never did. They tell police. The police are skeptical about this lead. There's a lot of back and forth between the police and the Smart family about whether a sketch of Emanuel should even be released. This back and forth lasts until the beginning of 2003. I know this poor family. Some authorities in the Salt Lake City police are just completely convinced that this earlier now dead suspect was the one who kidnapped and killed Elizabeth. And they don't believe that 10 year old Mary Catherine could possibly know what she's talking about. But thankfully, others believe that there could be merit to releasing a sketch of Emmanuel. However, they also think that doing so, if it is him, could endanger her life if she is actually still alive. Meanwhile, back in California, Mitchell has been disappearing from the campsite for days on end, leaving both Elizabeth and Barzi to come close to dying of dehydration and starvation. Mitchell's also talking about moving again, this time to like a big city like New York or Boston to get lost there. Elizabeth, that if this happens, she knows she'll never be found. She decides to try to manipulate him. She knows him so well at this point, and she thinks her best chance of survival is to go back to Utah where people will recognize her. You know, she plays it perfectly. She tells Mitchell that she knows God couldn't possibly speak to her, but she feels strongly it's God's will that the group go back to Utah. She just totally manipulates him into it becoming his idea. And God told him to go back to Utah, so they return there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Smart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Okay. So all this debate with the police about releasing the sketch of a man they know as Emanuel goes back and forth for months. Finally, In February of 2003, the Smart family essentially goes rogue. They're like, we're not doing this anymore. This is our daughter's life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Without involvement from law enforcement. They host a press conference, releasing the sketch to the media.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is so bold. But it's like there are no other leads.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And for the people who are saying, hey, we knew who did it. Like, not based on fact or anything. Just, this is better for us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And now that guy's dead, so this is over. Well, then if it's over for you, we get to go rogue.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And our daughter is literally saying, that's who it was. We believe her. You know, it's just that has to be the frustration of having a name and no one doing anything about it. I mean, I can't even imagine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So insane, but also so great that I'm sure as kind of LDS members, rule followers, community based. Like. Like, be respectful. Yeah, Authority, you know, authority, whatever. It's like, well, we did that for one year with you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where has it gotten us?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they released a sketch to the media, and then John Walsh, none other than John Walsh discusses what's going on on Larry King, which was a huge show at the time. And on John Walsh's own show, America's Most Wanted. So it gets picked up. John Walsh had been in touch with the Smart family since the beginning of the disappearance. He offers support because he'd been through a similar situation, having had his son, Adam Walsh, as we all remember, kidnapped and murdered. I covered the Adam Walsh case in episode 242, if you wanna listen to that. So it gets out. And immediately after this, relatives of both Mitchell and Barzi come forward and are like, that's who that is. They reveal their identities immediately. They know who it is. The FBI figures out that Mitchell has been arrested for shoplifting while in California. So they know the group has traveled there. And those relatives give photos of both Mitchell and Barzi in their white robes, like, exactly how they look to the press. And Barzi's children go on the news specifically to talk about how they believe both of them could be capable of kidnapping Elizabeth. They're like, totally on the side of finding Elizabeth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. On March 12, 2003, two separate couples in Sandy, Utah, about 30 minutes north of Salt Lake call either the police or the America's Most Wanted hotline to report sightings of Mitchell and Barzi and a young girl in disguise who they now think is Elizabeth. The group's been walking along the side of the road. They're no longer wearing their robes, possibly because those photos had been circulated. Now they're wearing normal clothes, but Elizabeth is wearing a gray wig, sunglasses, and a shirt tied around her head like a handkerchief, sort of. So police find them and stop them. This group of people, Mitchell, tries to prevent them to talking to Elizabeth by themselves, but the officers are now like, we know who this Is like they're pretty certain. They finally separate each of them. The officer speaking to Elizabeth tries to get her to say who she is. For, like, 45 minutes. She denies being Elizabeth Smart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I remember that, how traumatized she is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You do?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

From the initial story breaking and they said it, it felt like it was messaged in the media. Like, she did this or she did believe this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She wanted to be there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe just that tone was so insane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. He's still in earshot, and she's afraid that he'll hear her. Elizabeth later says, quote, of course I wanted to be rescued, but I had spent the past nine months being very abused at that point. I still felt very threatened. My captors were still right there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

End quote. Finally, the officer interviewing Elizabeth says that he'd like to give her one more chance to say who she is. He asks, are you Elizabeth Smart? She is still afraid of Mitchell hearing. And so she answers with that quasi biblical language saying, thou sayest. And the officer takes that as a yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I hope that the process has changed since that time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Scrolling, like, what's your name? What's your name?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Separate rooms.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Put them in a car. If you think this is who these.

[Karen Kilgariff]

People are, give the victim a victim's advocate instead of just saying, who are you? Or, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Or just get the people they're with away from them in a secure way. Like, make it clear that we're, like, not gonna. If you tell us, you'll be over here. Yeah. Like, what's gonna happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They'll be over there is. You'll be safe. Yes, totally. Elizabeth's family is, of course, overjoyed to have her back. And it seems like the entire nation is just, like, so relieved. Like, it just doesn't happen. That she comes back alive, that anyone comes back alive after being kidnapped.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's just this big celebration that it finally happens. John Walsh says, quote, we finally got one back. End quote. I know. And even after all she's been through, Elizabeth recovers. On the day after she gets home, her family throws her a 15th birthday party to make up for the one she missed. You know, she doesn't go. She stays. She stays in her room. Understandably, like, just totally overwhelmed. But she does send down a poster thanking everyone for coming. I'm sure it's just, like, too much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then she goes on to go to high school, she goes to college. She has friends. She goes on dates, she goes to dances. And generally, she enjoys her life. She goes on her LDS mission trip she gets a prime assignment in Paris, as she deserves. I know. Like, don't. Just please let it be easy for her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The elders were like, guess where she is gonna go?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And there she meets the man who will ultimately become her husband on her trip. Yeah. Wanda Barzi pleads guilty to kidnapping in 2009. And, I mean, these people in court were just disruptive. And it was just the photos that kept coming out on the news were just so disturbing. She sentenced to 15 years in prison, and she's since been released. But just last month, she was rearrested for entering a public park in Salt Lake City, which she's not allowed to do as a registered sex offender.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. Though Barzi issued a teary apology to Elizabeth at her trial, during this most recent arrest, she said she was commanded by God to enter the park. And so Elizabeth has publicly talked about how troubling it is that Barzi is still justifying her actions in this way. You know, it's not an apology when you are not taking accountability for what you did. There's no apology there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're kind of back to your old thinking of, like, the Lord, but also.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I know. Not long enough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, just. I think the one thing I was gonna say that's in the positive. It seems like the authorities in Salt Lake City are tracking Wanda Barzi's actions. So the second she steps into a public park, she's arrested. Where it's like, I don't know. You don't usually get that kind of response. Normally where it feels like they're like, do not let them rest.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Keep an eye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. That's good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mitchell's case doesn't go to trial for about eight years due to numerous delays and competency hearings. He put puts on a big show in court. He sings, he calls out to Jesus and spins and just like tries to be. Is generally tries to be ruled mentally incompetent to stand trial. It doesn't work. In 2011, he's finally found guilty of interstate kidnapping and unlawful transportation of a minor. He's sentenced to life in prison. Many members of the Smart family are still deeply connected to their LDS church. But Elizabeth is actually not the only member of her family who has talked about being harmed by strict interpretations of church ideology. As we talked about the virginity aspect. In 2019, Ed Smart, Elizabeth's dad, publicly comes out as gay, and he and Lois separate. This is, of course, painful for the family, but Elizabeth gives a statement to the press expressing her unwavering love and support for both her parents. Ed now does a lot of work with the LGBTQ youth in Utah and challenges the idea, which is still common in the church, that being gay is something a person can change. Meanwhile, Elizabeth Smart has become this incredible victims advocate. She is so admirable. I mean, I can't say enough good things. She's advocated for the passage of several laws that streamline investigations into missing children. She and her family also started the Elizabeth Smart foundation, which advocates for victims of sexual assault and connects them with resources. It's a. I checked out the website. It's ElizabethSmartFoundation.org, and there's a lot of resources there. Check that out. Elizabeth continues to advocate against that idea or even just teaching children that their worth is connected to their perceived virginity. And she speaks all over the world. And, you know, she's incredible. She now dedicates herself to teaching the children, quote, you'll always have value, and nothing can change that. And that is the story of the kidnapping and survival of Elizabeth Smart and thriving of Elizabeth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elizabeth Smart. I love that. That is now the current story about her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And she gets to tell it, and she gets to say, this is what happened to me. This is what my life is like now. Like, there's nothing better than that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, totally. But also, like, it's incredible. If you can't do that, if you were a survivor and you can't yet, that's okay, too. There's so many ways to be completely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's been 20 years, so it's like, that's a person who took their time in doing that and built her life back up by her own standards. It's really cool and really impressive. That was great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Thank you. All right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Soul episode once again, picked a story that gave us everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell, yeah. All right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's another batch of honking hoorays presented by Hyundai.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. You go first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You want me to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. This first one says hashtag tagoret. My partner just graduated with his Ph.D. in mechanical engineering, joining the ranks of less than 1% of black men to earn this degree. A whole lot of work went into it. And then there's that emoji of exhaling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I'm thankful to have been along for the ride. Happy grad season. That's right. It's dads in grad season at Phoenix. Harris. Congratulations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mechanical engineering.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No small feet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hooray.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. This is from our email. Hi, mfm. I just finished listening to the hoorays from Manny and Rachel, the public school librarian and teachers union vp. And I just wanted to write in to back them up. I am a public school school psychologist, so my main role is assessing and determining appropriate support for kids with learning disabilities, intellectual disabilities, emotional and behavioral needs, autism, ADHD, trauma, etc. It just fills me with hope to hear from other listeners just buckling down and doing the work in these times where the government is asking us to reduce or remove our help in the realm of diversity, equity and inclusion. Dei, which is my world. So my hooray is this MFM community of amazing people doing the work to be the good in this world when the world is trying to beat us down. Resist. Love you, Aaron.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aaron, that was epic. Aaron. Great job. Yeah, and hooray to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Keep up the good work. Okay, the subject line of this email is an unemployed Hooray. I'm currently listening to episode 473 and developing film from a solo backpacking trip through the Rockies in my kitchen sink.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Solo in the Rockies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Solo Rockies kitchen sink.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'd make it four hours and then I would dig a hole. I was recently fired from a job which, ironically, I had drafted a letter of resignation for one week prior. I guess the feeling was mutual. Now, as I intermittently agitate my developing tank in and out of the warm bath, I'm struck with an amusing thought. You know what that means, right? Because your sister's a photographer. I'm struck with an amusing thought. For years I psyched myself out pursuing my real dream of becoming an advanced adventure photographer. As if the last five years of sustaining a steady diet of misery at a job I hated was so much easier.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can't do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As I reflect on that trip and the 16 miles I marched up and down a mountain with a 35 pound pack, I can't help but think what a cakewalk that was in comparison.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So true. So maybe now as week by week, I'm filled with the palpable joy you two have created by doing what you love.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thanks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can try joy this time too. Wow. Hooray for the universe. Constantly forcing me to choose courage. K. What's that from?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Me. Kay. Kay. And now I get to read Hooray Hyundai from me in front of a lot of people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's incredible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good work, K. That's amazing. Okay, this is email. Hooray. What am I even doing? I'm happily spraying out my baby's cloth diapers because after seven years of planning Changing life habits and saving up. My wife and I were finally financial, stable, and mentally. Question mark. Stable enough to have our first baby. So hooray for stability and sperm donors. Hey, much love, Gina. She. Her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gina. All the hoorays are covered in that one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's incredible. I thought the. I thought it was gonna be more like a. I'm gonna be grateful for spraying out my child's cloth diaper instead of fully repulsed by it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Yes. Like I should say hooray to this because this is what I wanted.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great one. Okay, this one, it says hooray. This is an email. It says, teen leadership is the future. Are you ready for this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm a teen. Let me hear it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm a teen Inside. I got to take 17 students from seventh graders to seniors to. To a statewide leadership conference. It was two days filled with workshops by teens about everything from fundraising to teamwork. My favorites were rip up your cool card. And then in parentheses, it says, to be cringe is to be free. Oh, thank God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Lucky friends.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the token emo kid. The token emo kid in like title case.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God, I love that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then in parentheses, it says, making activities that are fun and safe for everyone. I was completely filled with joy and peace to see hundreds of teenagers who were kind, intelligent, and committed to making the world a better place. I love being a teacher. And seriously, the kids were all right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was from Teddy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A report from Teddy that the kids are okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those teenagers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Help us, please. Teenagers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. My hooray is that on April 24, I got a celebration. Celebrate one year since my craniotomy. What? At 23, I unexpectedly had a grand mal seizure after experiencing left sided migraines that grew more frequent. This seizure led to them finding a grade 2 arteriovenous malformation in my brain. AVMs are usually not discovered until they rupture or cause a stroke. I am a hypochondriac who always swore I was going to have a stroke every time I got a migraine. Jokes on everyone because I was part the of partially corrected.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you were. You were right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're not overdramatic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I am so lucky that I'm alive and healthy and suffering no lasting effects from my seizure surgery or avm. If you are experiencing migraines or other neurological issues, please point at me. You're my neurological issue. If you have a problem, please reach out to a medical professional. It may save your life. I want to shout out the university hospital main campus neuro ICU nurses. They are my sweet baby angels and do not get enough credit. Stay sexy and get your noggins checked. Page P. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Congratulations on surviving a neural cranial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's serious. Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. We did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. Thank you guys for tuning in. Thank you for listening. Thank you to Hyundai for presenting these honking hoorays.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Georgia Hardstark]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our Researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Follow the show on Instagram at my favorite murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And now you can watch us on exactly right's YouTube page while you're there. Please like and subscribe. Goodbye.