486 - Take These From Me

Summary

Podcast Summary: "My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark" - Episode 486: "Take These From Me"

Release Date: June 26, 2025
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Network: Exactly Right Podcast Network

In Episode 486, titled "Take These From Me," Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark delve into themes of community resilience, heroism in the face of disaster, and extraordinary stories that emerge from moments of crisis. This episode intertwines discussions on organized community actions against kidnappings, a compelling book recommendation, a detailed recount of the United Airlines Flight 232 disaster, and the inspiring tale of Smokey, a World War II hero dog.

---

1. Community Resilience and Action Against Kidnapping

Timestamp: [02:07 - 05:02]

Karen and Georgia open the episode by addressing the rising incidents of kidnappings and the empowering response from communities, particularly in Los Angeles. Georgia shares a poignant story from TikTok about a woman who was saved by four community members posing as ICE agents.

Georgia Hardstark [02:28]:
"It was like in the parking lot of a car wash... they basically saved this woman from being kidnapped."

Karen expresses immense pride in the community's proactive stance, emphasizing the importance of grassroots efforts in ensuring safety and solidarity.

Karen Kilgariff [03:12]:
"I know. I'm so fucking proud of our city... you just do what you can because you... feel powerless."

Key Takeaway:
The hosts highlight the critical role of community vigilance and support, urging listeners to engage with and support local nonprofits to foster safer neighborhoods.

---

2. Book Recommendation: "Working Stiff" by Dr. Judy Melaniek

Timestamp: [05:23 - 11:16]

Transitioning into literary recommendations, Karen introduces "Working Stiff," a gripping memoir by Dr. Judy Melaniek, detailing her experiences as a medical examiner during the tragic events of September 11, 2001.

Karen Kilgariff [05:23]:
"It's so murderino. It's so good... with that caveat."

The book explores the challenges of handling mass casualties and maintaining composure under extreme pressure. Georgia discusses the emotional toll such narratives can have on readers, advocating for mindful consumption of intense true crime content.

Georgia Hardstark [05:55]:
"You also get to dip out of it when you want to dip out."

Key Takeaway:
"Working Stiff" is recommended as a compelling yet emotionally taxing read, suitable for true crime enthusiasts who can manage the intensity it presents.

---

3. The Tragedy and Heroism of United Airlines Flight 232

Timestamp: [16:34 - 55:17]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to recounting the harrowing story of United Airlines Flight 232, which crashed on July 19, 1989, in Sioux City, Iowa. The hosts provide a detailed narrative of the events leading up to the crash, the crew's extraordinary efforts to control the aircraft, and the miraculous survival of 184 passengers out of 297.

Key Events:

• Initial Disaster
  Timestamp: [16:34 - 19:08]
  The plane experiences a catastrophic failure when a fan blade breaks off, leading to a loss of hydraulic control. Captain Al Haynes and co-pilot Bill Records struggle to stabilize the aircraft.

  Captain Al Haynes [35:52]:
  "We went to Sioux City because that's where the airplane went. We didn't have enough control to put it down in any place in particular."

• Crew's Heroic Efforts
  Timestamp: [22:07 - 32:34]
  Off-duty pilot Captain Denny Fitch offers invaluable assistance. Their collaborative efforts are pivotal in attempting to land the crippled DC10.

  Jan Brown [32:34]:
  "All eyes are on flight attendants when something happens to see how we're reacting so the passengers know how to react themselves."

• Crash and Aftermath
  Timestamp: [39:53 - 54:12]
  Despite their best efforts, the plane crashes into a cornfield. Survivors recount experiences of chaos, fire, and loss. Notably, flight attendant Jan Brown becomes an advocate for child safety on planes following the tragedy.

  Jan Brown [53:49]:
  "That's what I can do for Evan to make sure he's not forgotten."

Survivor Stories:

• Jerry Schemmel's Rescue
  Timestamp: [46:10 - 47:29]
  Jerry, a passenger, rescues a baby girl from the wreckage, highlighting personal heroism amidst disaster.

  Jerry Schemmel [46:10]:
  "I scooped her out with one arm, and as soon as I touched her and put her in my arm, she stopped crying."

Post-Disaster Legacy:

The crew received national acclaim, and several survivors carried the emotional scars. Jan Brown's advocacy led to policy changes enhancing child safety on commercial flights.

Georgia Hardstark [05:02]:
"There's no empathy for the lady... but talking about it is not acting like that."

Key Takeaway:
The story exemplifies exceptional human resilience, teamwork, and leadership in the face of unimaginable adversity, leaving a lasting impact on aviation safety protocols.

---

4. Smokey the WWII Hero Dog

Timestamp: [55:17 - 73:22]

Shifting gears, Karen and Georgia narrate the inspiring tale of Smokey, a teacup Yorkshire terrier who served heroically alongside American soldiers in World War II. Found abandoned in a foxhole on New Guinea, Smokey becomes a source of comfort and ingenuity, proving indispensable in critical missions.

Story Highlights:

• Adoption and Bonding
  Timestamp: [55:17 - 63:11]
  Soldier Bill Wynn unexpectedly adopts Smokey, whose presence notably improves troop morale amidst harsh conditions.

  Georgia Hardstark [68:11]:
  "Bill says, 'She was the first therapy dog... a real spirit lifter.'"

• Heroic Acts
  Timestamp: [63:05 - 73:22]
  Smokey performs multiple acts of bravery, including a pivotal mission during the Luzone campaign where she aids in constructing essential communication lines under enemy fire.

  Karen Kilgariff [68:08]:
  "She started singing to cheer up the wounded soldiers... she was a real spirit lifter."

Legacy:

Smokey becomes a celebrated figure, inspiring the establishment of therapy dog programs and leading to a renewed interest in Yorkshire terriers post-war.

Georgia Hardstark [55:17]:
"The crew of Flight 232 become national heroes overnight..."

Key Takeaway:
Smokey's story underscores the profound impact animals can have on human morale and showcases the sometimes-overlooked roles that pets and assistance animals play in critical situations.

---

5. Conclusion

Timestamp: [73:34 - 75:54]

Karen and Georgia wrap up the episode by reflecting on the stories shared, emphasizing the themes of bravery, resilience, and the extraordinary in everyday heroes—both human and animal. They encourage listeners to find inspiration in these tales and to support their communities and the animals that bring joy and support to our lives.

Georgia Hardstark [75:54]:
"Stay sexy and don't get murdered."

---

Final Thoughts:

Episode 486 of "My Favorite Murder" masterfully interweaves narratives of human and animal heroism, underscoring the podcast's unique blend of true crime, heartfelt storytelling, and occasional moments of levity. Through the harrowing recount of United Airlines Flight 232 and the uplifting story of Smokey the therapy dog, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark honor acts of bravery and resilience that leave a lasting impact on both individuals and society.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Georgia Hardstark [02:28]:
  "It was like in the parking lot of a car wash... they basically saved this woman from being kidnapped."

• Karen Kilgariff [03:12]:
  "I know. I'm so fucking proud of our city... you just do what you can because you... feel powerless."

• Karen Kilgariff [05:23]:
  "It's so murderino. It's so good... with that caveat."

• Georgia Hardstark [05:55]:
  "You also get to dip out of it when you want to dip out."

• Captain Al Haynes [35:52]:
  "We went to Sioux City because that's where the airplane went. We didn't have enough control to put it down in any place in particular."

• Jan Brown [53:49]:
  "That's what I can do for Evan to make sure he's not forgotten."

• Jerry Schemmel [46:10]:
  "I scooped her out with one arm, and as soon as I touched her and put her in my arm, she stopped crying."

• Georgia Hardstark [05:02]:
  "There's no empathy for the lady... but talking about it is not acting like that."

• Georgia Hardstark [68:11]:
  "Bill says, 'She was the first therapy dog... a real spirit lifter.'"

• Georgia Hardstark [55:17]:
  "The crew of Flight 232 become national heroes overnight..."

---

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of Episode 486, highlighting key discussions, emotional narratives, and inspiring stories shared by Karen and Georgia. Whether you're a long-time listener or new to "My Favorite Murder," this episode offers profound insights into human and animal courage and the enduring impact of heroic actions.

Transcript

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is exactly right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

See visible.com for plan features and network management details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hello, hello and welcome to my favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Georgia Hardstark.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Karen Kilgariff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're gonna do this thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're gonna do this thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Despite all the things, despite all the reasons not to. And there are now hundreds, hundreds and hundreds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean it just keeps getting hundreder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're doing it anyway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Keep thinking about a video I saw on TikTok. A woman was pulled over by four ICE agents. And we can go ahead and put that in quotes because now they've realized that a lot of them are not real ICE agents. There was four men standing around and a woman and it's like in the parking lot of a car wash looking thing and this person in a white car just pulls in real quick. The woman runs over, she jumps in the backseat, and they drive away. And they basically saved this woman from being kidnapped. And it is the kind of shit that these smaller communities and neighborhoods all around Los Angeles are starting to do. They're organized, they're communicating, they're getting out to their people. It's really incredible. And it's so on my mind all the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. I'm so fucking proud of our city. And, like, everyone showing up and giving, and it's just. It's just like all you can do because you. You feel powerless. It's. It's impossible not to feel powerless.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think the thing they underestimated is that basically everyone has a family member in some way, shape or form, however you want to define that, that could be affected by just random kidnappings of. We decided you don't belong here because of how you look or what your last name might be. So you're gonna go. And the rest of Los Angeles is like, no, you're fucking not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, 100%.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you're not. What a time to live in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Truly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

On our social media, you can go and look and see. We posted nonprofits to donate to ways you can act. Tips on if you see things happening, if you're living in this area or if it's happening in your area. Because now it's happening in lots of places.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It definitely is. So.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I know that's the vibe, but also, how do you not talk about it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We've gone past the pale once again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How are we just living this? Didn't we do this in 2016 when we started this podcast?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't believe. I wonder what we would have said if it's like someone had told us, like, it's gonna be the same and worse.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, it's going to be the worst in the way that, like, the quote unquote, overreacting people said it was going to, and everyone else is like, calm down. You don't. And that's a lot of that. You know, you get a lot of that Internet troll bot bullshit where it's like, that's not even how. And it's like, that's not how it's happening to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I don't want to be a martyr. You and I are two white ladies with means and opportunity. So it's not affecting us. The it is other people. So I don't want to act like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But talking about it is not acting like that. We're not Saying it's happening to us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pointing it out and we're aware of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And fucking. Let's all do something. Let's all do individual, galvanized, community shit so that we all stand up and say. Which is what everyone did at the no Kings protest.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. I have a true crime related suggestion or reference. What's it called when you suggest something?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Recommendation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're welcome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's a book. It's a memoir that I love. It's so murderino. It's so good. However, halfway through, over the weekend, I had to hand it to Vince and say, take this away from me. Like, my anxiety is so. It's like, ugh. So I like, I feel I want to recommend it. Cause it's great. With that caveat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. That please remember that part of the quote, unquote, enjoyment when you are a consumer of true crime is that you're spiking your cortisol. You're your nervous system worked up for your own reasons. You get to do that if you want to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you also get to dip out of it when you want to dip out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When you need to have a hot dog and watch Detroiters.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause like, oh my God. I just. There's that clip that's going around from Detroiters, one of my favorites, where Tim Robertson is yelling at the lady who. She goes, hey, don't use that language. She says something because there's a little kid next door and he goes, tell your husband to back off. Then he leans down and she's like, don't, dude, that's my son. And don't. Whatever. And he leans down, starts yelling at him and the kid just slaps him across the face. It's like one of the funniest. It's so absurd series of things. It's so great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like it takes place in reality, except everything is absurd, which is just amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Delightful. Delightful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so the book is called Working Stiff, and it's a memoir of a medical examiner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you see it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've heard of this book, but I've never had the guts to read it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So it's literally the guts. You need guts. Because they talk about guts. And it's by this amazing Dr. Judy Melaniek, M.D. who worked as a medical examiner doing autopsies in NYC in Manhattan. And she started in like the year 2000. And so the first half of the book is just like the experience of autopsies and unexplained deaths and how it's just like really fascinating stuff that I think people like me are interested in, like, if you read Mary Roach's stiff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is like that. But then the second half, it's the year 2000 or so in Manhattan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guess what happens? And guess what? She has to be the medical examiner for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For just 9 11.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the. So the tagline is two years, 262 bodies and the making of a medical examiner. And you know, it's this awesome woman, Judy Melaniek. So I highly recommend it. And I highly recommend a beta blocker.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, you truly have to just know what you're. And it's like the story around 9 11, people's individual stories. I mean, what's more fascinating, but also the most stressful. And then at a time like this where everybody feels very vulnerable, worried, constantly exposed, it's like, yeah, watch the content choices.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Between the news and reading that, I was like, put it down for a minute. Spend some time with Vince. Like, you gotta be in the world. Yeah. Be in the world. So I handed it to him and I'm like, I don't want you to never give this back to me, but please take it right now. It's like the same thing when you're eating like box of Oreos. You're like, take these from me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I can't control myself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And when I attack you like a rabid raccoon to get them back, fight me. I'm just asking you to be in this relationship.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like, fight me to a point, you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Know, and then take me out to dinner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I did that. I went into the real world and I went up for Nora's graduation party.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Yay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it was lovely. And it was like I got to see a bunch of my cousins and my family and it was just a hang at my aunt Jean's house. And it was really lovely and it was real fast. I just had to go and come.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Back kind of in your Hyundai Ioniq 5 in my.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's how deep the advertising is going. Is that just was not seating it? No, that was a freebie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, I need to turn my air conditioning on. I'm having a hot flash.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was on my drive back positive that the seat heater was on in my car. Checked it literally six times and there was like, no. Holy, holy middle aged.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, someday I'll talk about my lose weight quick scam that I did last week. I lost three pounds overnight by getting a simple hysterectomy. Oh, boom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Stomach is flat. You are true Fitzpo inspiration Or what are they called? Finspos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Follow me for more advice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Georgia, how was it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not bad. So I want to talk about it, because it wasn't bad. And I don't know. I know one person who's had it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I. I know a couple.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So, I mean, it's interesting. It's really interesting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get thin quick. Lose three pounds in two days.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Overnight, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Major surgery.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get some great drugs. Eat a lot of uncrustables. Like, boom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Were you scared?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, I was terrified.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Was it your first surgery?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And it's also weird to be, like, I turned 45 and then the same week, so it just, like, felt like an old lady thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's also weird to put a period at the end of. Are you ever gonna have a baby one day? And it's like, it's not your cute decision anymore. And you take a stance. It's. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. Or biologically, at least, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, completely. That's an adjustment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So it's interesting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a big adjustment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if this whole time it was just your, you know, uterus that was. Or whatever the actual part is that's causing all the problems, and now you're just like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean. I mean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you can sleep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, we're gonna talk about it in our next memoir, so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Called Don't Get Murdered and Stay Sexy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's goat hysterectomy time with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hysterectomy. Hysterecta.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You right. We'll pitch it out. We'll figure it out before the book comes out, guys. We promise.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, wait. Can I read you a fun email? Yeah. The subject line is, my grandma drove an ambulance in World War II, which is connected to the Rochambell story that I did, which was the bonus. Yes, again, sorry, but Hyundai sponsored.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We get really excited when people like us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We like it when people believe in us. Who doesn't?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so this email goes. Hi, friends. Let me preface this by saying that what my grandmother did is very different and far less dangerous than the rochambells. So I'm not trying to say it's the same thing, just trying to highlight the ways in which women's support is frequently unspoken. My grandmother was a teenager on Long Island, New York, during World War II, but wanted to do her part when planes carrying wounded soldiers from Europe arrived at the airfield on Long Island. My grandmother drove ambulances to take the soldiers from the airfield to the hospital.

[Karen Kilgariff]

W. As a teenager.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As a teenager. And then they Say, not dangerous, but still an essential service. My grandmother Barbara, called Bobby by her friends, just turned 98 this month and her memory's pretty bad. So is mine. Let's not be judgmental. So this is my reminder to ask your grandparents for their stories.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stay sexy and do what you can. Abby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Abby. What a perfect letter for this tough opening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, right? To get us back up on the on level ground. Bobby. Well, we're not friends with her. Barbara, happy birthday. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your bravery. It is brave to give service in any way, shape or form. So thank you for that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do what you can. I love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And sorry for all the swearing. I'm sure Bobby's pissed about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like those girls, but the swear word girls.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Then she just pulls a Kleenex out of her sweater sleeve.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, so should we do some Exactly Right corner stuff?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have a podcast network called Exactly Right if you can believe it. Here's some highlights this week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Over on Buried Bones, Kate and Paul head to 1931 England where a hayfield fire leads to this discovery of a young college student's body. And a legendary investigator steps in. Is it Sherlock Holmes? No, he's not real. Stop it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then over on Bananas. Fucking Kristen Schaal. Love her. I mean, she joins Kurt and Scotty to talk about how scientists taught monkeys to use money. And the monkeys immediately turn to lives of crime.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So legendary. You can now watch this episode on our YouTube [e-mail] exactly right media. It's the first Bananas podcast video that they are doing. Will there be more? Be nice to them and maybe they will make more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm so glad all of those faces are beautiful faces that you're going to want to see.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kristen Shaw is on every single TV show I watch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, it's incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just think about it all the time where I'm just like, she's just nailing it left, right and center.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. And on Dear Movies I Love youe. Millie and Casey dive into the 90s camp movies and the 1995 classic heavyweights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A classic truly. Also, we recently announced our new podcast Trust Me which is about cults extreme belief in the abuse of power has officially joined us here at the Exactly Right network. So to celebrate we are gonna re release some fan favorite episodes of theirs every Wednesday leading up to their Network premiere on July 30th.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the huge for us. We're so excited about this. This week's favorite episode of Trust Me features Hoyt Richards, who's a former supermodel who was recruited into the eternal values cult and how Fabio was involved in his recovery. Yes, that Fabio. That's Trust me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bird in the face on. On a roller coaster. Fabio.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Trust me. Please follow Wherever you listen to podcasts, it's, like, really helpful to them and to us, and we appreciate it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, support that new show also. Speaking of cults, hey, you can join our fan cult. We now offer ad free episodes of this show, my favorite murder, and weekly bonus audio and video. Plus, you can get access to our discord, which is what all the kids love to hang out on and talk on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Check it [e-mail] It's April 2020. A woman announces on Facebook that she has Covid and and won't be seeking medical attention.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't want to be talked out of this plan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then she disappears. Anyone else think this is strange?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just had to know, how did this happen?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen to what happened to Talina czar on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Over the years of making my true crime podcast Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was calling about the murder of my husband.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The murder is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case. If there's a case we should Hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Helen Gone Murderline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm Jeff Perelman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I'm Rick Jervis. We're journalists and hosts of the podcast Finding Sexy Sweat. At an internship in 1993, we roomed with Reggie Payne, aspiring reporter and rapper.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who went by Sexy Sweat a couple years ago.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We set out to find him, but in 2020, Reggie fell into a coma after police pinned him down and he never woke up. But then I see my son's not moving.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So we started digging and uncovered city.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to finding Sexy Sweat on the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I go first this week, or you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can tell now who goes first just based on what kind of story I have, you know?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're welcome. Thanks, Molly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our producer, Molly Smith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm Gonna get comfy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Please do. You have heard me talk about this story before. It was just long ago. The reason I know about it is from the television show I Sur. But a listener named Alana sent this story into us because it's her hometown. And so Maren did all her research and wrote this up for us. So I get to retell it to you now. It begins on July 19, 1989. And United Flight 232 out of Denver, Colorado is headed for Chicago.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. Oh, you know what? Good point. If you are about to fly, are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You on a plane? People listen to this on plane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you're on the plane, please press stop. If you are in the security line, go ahead and take those earbuds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, you're fine because I talk about it. Maren does some nice research in the end about how rare anything like this is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But this is one of those stories that will bum you out eternally if you don't shepherd it into your brain correctly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like that book. Take a beta blocker.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. Careful, careful, careful. So there are 296 people on board this plane, including passengers and crew. One of them is a 29 year old man named Jerry Schemmel. Jerry is a deputy commissioner of the now defunct Continental Basketball association, or the cba. And he set it to Chicago for the leagues draft. Marin notes the CBA was essentially the minor leagues for men's professional basketball in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The U.S. good to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you can put that into your basketball scrapbook. Jerry was originally booked on an earlier flight. He got bumped off that flight and he was rebooked on Flight 232, which takes off around one o' clock local time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you do the thing where whenever you get bumped, it's like, either that one I didn't take, or the one I'm gonna take is the one that's gonna crash. I hope it's. I don't hope it's the one I didn't take. I mean. You know what I mean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think our brains are wired to do like sliding doors. Okay, what does this mean for my future? Blank blanket.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally make sense of things. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. I also had a procedure done recently. And right before I went under, I was kind of waiting out there. You know, I was just sitting there waiting for them to take me in. And someone opened a door and there was just this waft of like kind of summertime hay smell. And I was like, oh, I'm definitely gonna die. I'm gonna Die on the table.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why? Because there's hay in the surgery room?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just because it felt like very. Oh, this is what my childhood smelled like out in the country in Petaluma, which is like, why am I smelling this right now?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Memories are popping up and those ne. Cause they're dying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, because I'm being so vain by getting plastic surgery essentially, where I'm like, I'm dying on this table today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know what you mean. It's like, if I get. Because I've had stuff done, I've never been put under, but like. Yeah, you're like, no one's gonna feel bad for me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's no empathy. No, for the lady was like, can you tighten my neck, please? And it's like, yeah, it's okay. Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everybody, let's. You're gonna get the real. You're gonna get the real info here on my favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look, we gotta say it. There's only one chance to say it, and it's right now. That's how we've lived our lives. Okay, so Jerry Shummel takes his seat and he begins to unwind on this, what's supposed to be a very easy two hour flight to Chicago. This is a DC10 aircraft, which is sometimes called a trijet because it has three engines. Two on either side of the plane under the wings, and then one in the back on the tail. DC10s are no longer used in commercial flying, FYI. So this particular DC10 has made nearly 17,000 successful flights over its 18 year lifetime. And the pilot that's flying it today is just as experienced. 57 year old Captain Al Haynes has more than 30 years of flying under his belt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So this is very. Just work a day, very normal. Here we go. It's a commute, two hour commute flight. About an hour into this flight, the plane's cruising along at 37,000ft in the air over northwest Iowa. Jerry's just been served lunch, which is a basket of chicken fingers, coleslaw, and as you mentioned earlier, Oreo cookies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God, how classy. 1989, coming in hot, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

The snack of the late 80s. But then Jerry and everyone else in the cabin hears a sudden deafening boom rip through the DC10. The plane and everyone on it starts violently shaking. This probably lasts around five to six seconds. But of course, to everyone on the plane, it feels like an eternity. And like everyone else on board, Jerry is immediately gripped by pure terror. He assumes it's a terrorist bomb that was hidden in the cargo hold. And he will later describe the chaotic Scene around him saying, quote, I heard a lot of screaming. There were plates and dishes and silverware being tossed around because of the drop. And people on their feet, including fight attendants, lost their balance.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's not just shaking, but then the plane itself drops.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oy vey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Then Jerry realizes he might be about to die.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Again, stop this podcast right now if you're just chilling on a plane thinking that you're gonna do it all. So these are the very first moments in what will soon be considered one of the worst air disasters in U.S. history and one of commercial aviation's most extraordinary stories of skill, teamwork, and heroism. This is the story of United Airlines Flight 232.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know this one, but I'm assuming they survived in. Huzzah. That's really great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So there was a special episode of I Survived that aired in 2009, which I was talking about earlier, and that's one of the sources Maren used. She also used a 2021 Medium article by Kira Dempsey entitled Fields of Fortune, the crash of United Airlines Flight 232. And there was a 2017 Popular Mechanics article written by Lawrence Gonz entitled the crash of United Airlines Flight 232. The rest of the sources are in our show notes. And that episode of I Survived. Normally they do three different people, three different crimes. This is like a special episode where all the people on it are people who survived this crash.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we're mid flight. We just heard this explosion, and after five seconds, the plane finally stopped shaking. So there's eight flight attendants on this flight, and the lead flight attendant is a woman named Jan Brown. And here's something Jan will later say about this moment of the explosion. Explosion, quote, all eyes are on flight attendants when something happens to see how we're reacting. So the passengers know how to react themselves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, I'm always doing that. She seems cool. She cool. She's cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, they deal with this all the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that is kind of like there are people in life like that too, where it's just like the kind of people are just like, it's fine. That's completely my sister's friend Adrian. It's just like, you know, this is. They did this happens sometimes on the blah, blah, blah. And it's like, just give me anything and I will be on that level totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But if so and so's freaking out, then there's a problem. If dad's freaking out, then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, then it's impossible not to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so here's Jan's quote. All eyes are on flight attendants when something happens to see how we're reacting so the passengers know how to react themselves. I always had a poker face like there's absolutely nothing wrong because priority is to maintain calm of the passengers. I just went back to picking up trays as if nothing happened. Jan Brown okay. So meanwhile in the cockpit, Captain Al Haynes, his 48 year old co pilot bill records, and 51 year old flight engineer Dudley Dvorak are still trying to process what just happened when they feel the DC10 start to tip toward the right like it's about to roll over. If that happens, the plane will almost certainly spiral down to the earth and crash. You can't let a plane go any one direction too far right. And I say that as an aeronautical engineer. So co pilot Bill Records instinctively grabs the yoke, which is the plane's steering wheel. So yoke is steering wheel and throttle is gas pedal. Bill Rickards grabs the yoke and he pulls hard to the left to basically balance out that right tilt. At the same time, Captain Hayes is realizing what's going on. It has nothing to do with the bomb. This is not an act of terrorism. Basically there's been a major equipment malfunction and he can only guess what it could be. Much later they'll learn that something called the fan blade, which does not seem like it should be on a plane, it seems like it should be on like the fan over your stove when things are smoky. But they're on planes and this one broke off at the back of the plane. So what Captain Hayes does know now is that the engine in the tail of the plane has failed. So they're down one engine. Of course that's not ideal, but the DC10's two remaining engines are fully capable of picking up the slack. It's the issue with the yoke that is a real problem, obviously. So flight engineer Dudley radios to the nearest air traffic controller to let them know what's happened. While Captain Haynes goes down his emergency checklist of what to do following sudden engine failure. And this is where a bad but manageable situation turns catastrophic. Because the DC10 is uncontrollably banking to the right and threatening to roll over. Suddenly the yoke stops working, so copilot Records can't level out the plane. This is not something anyone's trained for. But instinctively, Records abandons the yoke and pushes the throttle for the left side engine. And this sudden boost of power on the left side counteracts the tilt to the Right. So he can't steer it back. So he basically gases it up over here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Double time on this side. Yeah, Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is. He just did it like, okay, maybe this will work. So nothing is responding on the plane on any of the inputs or commands on Captain Haynes emergency checklist. Not good. Then. As Dudley watches the plane's gauges, he sees the ones that monitor the hydraulic system drop to zero. Just all of a sudden, all those needles go down. So as you can guess, the hydraulic system on a plane is extremely important. It powers a bunch of the controls that allow the pilot to adjust the plane's direction and altitude, that lower the landing gear, operate the brakes, like all the vital things. So it turns out that that explosion that happened sent hot metal shards. So it's like the fan blade breaks. Hot metal shards from the broken fan blade, like, are shot through the back of the plane and they rip through the aircraft's hydraulic lines. So it takes about a minute or two for those, the fluid to leak out of those hydraulic lines. And once that happens, the whole system goes down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the yoke doesn't work and all the gauges drop to zero. And basically losing a plane's hydraulic system is beyond a worst case scenario. The cockpit crew, who are very, very experienced pilots and crew members, have never trained for it because no one has trained for it. Flying a DC10 with no hydraulic system is not thought to be survivable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Captain Haynes will later say, quote, if you do not have hydraulics, you absolutely have no control. You might as well just take the control column and throw it out the window. A billion to one were the odds that this would happen. Okay, so here's what's weird or fateful. An off duty United pilot named Captain Denny Fitch happens to also be a passenger on this flight. Like everyone else on board, he knows something's up. So he basically goes up and asks if he can go into the cockpit. Because it turns out Captain Fitch is an expert on flying DC10s. He actually is a pilot who trains other pilots on how to fly a DC10. So he goes up, he offers his help, and normally rank and title dominate the very regimented, hierarchical field of aviation. Obviously, cockpits, they don't just take people who come up and are like, hey, how about I get in here and give you my two cents? But in this moment, Captain Haynes and his crew welcome the stranger's help. Without hesitation, they put their egos aside and they focus on the emergency at hand. Because, and they describe it in the I survived episode, essentially They, I think they wrapped a belt around the broken yoke so that they keep that tipping wing up, and they're just doing it fully by physical force.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they're, however, 30,000ft in the air. So now, with the controls no longer an option to use, this crew decides their best chance of survival is the one thing they do still have, which is the plane's remaining engine power. So the throttles are being used to keep the plane level, and they're going to be used to maneuver the DC10 as best they can. So this is the most simplistic explainer that Maren wrote for me, which is when the crew fires the throttles, the two engines that are left get a power boost, causing the front of the plane to lift slightly, right? So like you're taking off, when they let off the throttles, the plane's nose dips downward and then begins a descent. When they fire the throttle on one side engine, then it turns the plane in the opposite direction and vice versa. So basically, because the plane is still tilting to the right, if they want to go right, they just stop pulling it as much to the left. So they basically are using the gas pedal as a big steering wheel because there's no steering wheel. So they just improvise this new way of steering. It's never been done before. As far as anyone knows, it's extremely risky because not gassing the engines enough could result in a nose dive. And once they start to go down, the plane could flip over itself. So they're basically just doing everything they can to keep the nose level. Captain Fitch & Co pilot records are focusing on the throttles while Captain Haynes and engineer Dudley are frantically making calls to get guidance from someone on the ground. But no one, not United's maintenance team, their emergency response center, or the plane's manufacturers, know what to do or what to tell these men.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The harsh reality is that this uncontrollable DC10 is going to end up on the ground one way or the other. So Captain Haines and his crew are fighting like hell to control that landing so that the hundreds of people on board have a chance of getting out alive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Damn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's now four minutes after the blast, and the captain calls head flight attendant Jan Brown into the cockpit, and he tells her to prepare the passengers for a crash landing. Jan will later say, quote, it was just hanging in the air, that this was the worst possible crisis. I could feel it. It just hit me full force when I opened the door. I remember distinctly thinking, we're at 37,000ft. And the possibility is we could go straight down. It was pure terror.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like that's it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But Jan maintains her composure and her poker face as she exits the cockpit and she walks down the aisle to go inform her team that that's the situation they're in. And as she does this, Captain ha over the PA system. And he tells all the passengers, quote, I'm not going to kid anybody. This is going to be bad. We need to prepare for a crash landing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The fucking pilot says those words. They don't say that shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't do that. This is not like an April Fool's joke that they pull every year. This is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's not their style. No, they're very serious about this shit. I'm not going to kid anybody, actually.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you kid me, please?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Could you? I'm fine with delusion. I'm fine with it. With that, Jan and the other flight attendants kick into gear. They go around and they urge every passenger to remain calm. And they teach them all how to get into what they call a bracing position. To get ready to do that when the pilot instructs them to do so. And so a bracing position is you folding your upper body as far forward as you can. Like you're gonna put your head between your knees, essentially, and you grab your ankle. And that's like your best survival position in this situation. So this is about as bad as it can be. But it does get worse. Because United has been running a promotion where kids. Plane tickets cost a penny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So there's lots of children on this flight.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, fuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Including four infants, what they call lap infants. Which means they don't have assigned seats. Cause their parents are holding them. Cause they're so small.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, as the safety protocol of that time dictates, Jan Brown must now instruct those parents to put their babies on the floor during this emergency landing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She later says, quote, I thought to myself, jan, I can't believe you're telling parents to put their most prized possession on the floor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When Jan talks about this moment in their episode of I Survived, it is the most heartbreaking thing. It is so scary. And it is what protocol dictated at the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was just her job to tell them. This is your best chance of having your baby survive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just impossible sounding.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So meanwhile, up in the cockpit with all the DC10's down controls and busted tail engine. I love when Maren uses the word like busted. It's just fucking busted. Everything's still being controlled by the throttles. Captain Haynes, Captain Fitch and the two other crew members are constantly communicating with each other and working together to keep the plane level and basically moving forward. At this point, Flight 232 is now somewhere in the sky over Sioux City, Iowa. And Captain Haynes is starting to feel hopeful that his crew can use the throttles to descend enough and make a landing. He knows it will be a herculean task, but the Sioux City airport is not that far off of the plane's current flight path. Captain Haynes will later say, quote, we went to Sioux City because that's where the airplane went. We didn't have enough control to put it down in any place in particular. We just had to keep going until we got to the ground. The idea was to keep it in the air, hoping we could make it to the airport because there are facilities there, there are emergency vehicles there, and there's a hospital there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So now Captain Fitch takes over the throttles while the other three men try to prepare as best they can. They're coordinating with Sioux City controllers and emergency services. They start dumping fuel to lighten the aircraft. And they manually open the landing gear's door, which you can do from the cockpit so that gravity basically pulls down the landing gear. Cause hydraulics won't do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Captain Haynes later says, quote, they say your life flashes before your eyes. But we never thought we were going to die. We didn't think we were going to crash. We thought, if we can just get this to the ground, keep it flying, we'll be okay. We were so busy, you don't have time to think about anything else.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's like, what else? You're not going to panic and give up. You just do whatever you can. Probably.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. You keep on working toward a solution. You just keep fighting, especially in that situation. So in the main cabin, of course, there's this eerie feeling which passenger Jerry Schemmel later speaks about. He's the guy that got rebooked onto this flight. And he describes it as, quote, a controlled panic. You could hear people crying. You could hear some people crying out loudly. But for the most part, people kept calm. I think we were all just trying to figure out how we were going to survive this thing. And then he adds, we were probably as ready as we could be for a crash landing. And we knew it was going to be that. Captain Haynes told us over and over, we're in trouble or we don't have any control of this plane. You've gotta be ready. You've gotta listen flight attendants. You've got to know what you're doing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, that's so off script from anything you've ever heard a pilot say over the loudspeaker. It just must have been so horrifying. Sorry, we're still in the quote. We knew we were going to crash. I think by the end it was like, let's get this thing over with. Let's go. Because just the tension. Yeah. So now the Runway at the Sioux City airport comes into view. Captain Fitch on the throttles easily sends the plane into a wide rightward turn. And then as it circles back around, Captain Haines is hoping he can get the plane lined up as closely as possible to a Runway. This is an extremely difficult task. They make several attempts. They do three huge loops. It takes about 45 minutes of trying and looping back around and trying to get closer and closer. The captain finally feels ready to make an attempt to land on the tarmac. And this is when Captain Fitch tells Captain Haynes, quote, I'll tell you what, we'll have a beer when all this is done.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Captain Haynes responds, quote, well, I don't drink, but I'll sure as hell have one. So they begin their descent. When the DC10 is about 100ft off the ground, Captain Fitch is thinking this, quote, your attitude is, I will do this, I will do it. I will not accept failure. I will not accept anything less than the best. Even if I die, that's the way I'm going to die.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, that makes sense.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So as hard as they try, the crew simply cannot slow this plane down enough. Cause they can be lined up. They can. You know, all those things can be come together, but they are going 270 miles, and that's twice as fast as any plane normally landing would be going.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so they're not slowed down, Right. They have no controls, so they overshoot the airport. And then as they're coming down, they're so close to the ground, out of nowhere, the right wing drops out and the DC10 nose dives and the plane smashes into. They're now over a cornfield. They've overshot the airport. They're over a cornfield, and they just smash straight into the cornfield. Passenger Jerry Schemmel, who is in the bracing position, will later say, quote, it wasn't a crash landing. It was us dropping out of the sky and slamming into the Earth. Dude, for all the thoughts I had about what it was going to be like, I wasn't ready for that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I thought, all right, a crash landing is a crash, but it's a landing. Ours felt like we just dropped out of the sky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Jesus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So immediately after initial impact, Jerry feels the DC10 bounce a few times. It almost seems like the plane is about to take back off again. But instead the nose turns downward, the tail comes up, and the plane begins flipping forward over and over. So it basically is in this, like these forward cartwheel kind of moves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit. Can you imagine seeing that? Just standing there, seeing a fucking jet plane cartwheeling?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know who did was the local news who had heard that it was this emergency landing was happening. And they were post it up. You can watch it yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't want.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's footage. Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't at all. But if that's something that is what you need, you can watch it. And it's very, very upsetting. So this airplane smashes into five pieces, and the pieces scatter and they are buried into the ground among seven foot tall stalks of corn, which is very surreal. Some of the pieces skid for nearly a mile before they erupt into flames. Air traffic controllers who had just been speaking with the cockpit crew turn away from the site because they believe they've just witnessed the deaths of everyone on board. And as I say, local news crews capture the disaster on film in real time. Jerry Schemmel and head flight attendant Jan Brown are in the middle section of the plane, which when it flips over, drills down so deeply into the cornfield that no daylight is visible outside of the windows. So it kind of goes down into the ground almost like a pencil.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And that's the front in the middle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They, I believe, are in the middle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're basically in the first half of the main cabin, and in front of them was first class. And then the cockpit passed out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So now everyone in this part of the plane is hanging upside down in their seats. The only thing providing any light is fire. Jesus. Jerry describes this hellish scene saying, quote, people were thrown all about the cabin. Some still strapped in their chairs, some thrown from their chairs. They were out of their seats whether their seatbelts had given out or the rivets in the chairs had given. Then the debris and the smoke and the fire. At the same time, Jan Brown blacks out, and when she comes to, she doesn't know if she's alive or dead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But she will later say, quote, I realized, oh, my God, I'm still thinking. And then I thought, if I'M thinking I'm still alive. The job just kicked in right after that. I heard someone behind me say, there's an opening. Sure enough, there's a big open hole where the first class galley had been.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Jan and her colleagues immediately start getting passengers to safety. And she says, quote, I was focused on getting these people out. I was holding this debris back, and they were walking by me. And it felt like I could have been saying thank you for flying with us today. It was so calm, I guess, because we were all in shock.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, what an incredible thing. She did what she was trained to do. She didn't freak out, which is just so incredible. You know, it's like flight attendants are people. They're just people, but they're badass. They're like nurses where it's like, I have a job to do now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. When this situation, it is like their first responders, they're, they're. They have to have nerves of steel like that. They have to be the leaders. She definitely was a leader. But that idea of like, they're getting people out of the hole, basically in the front of a broken piece of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Plane, and that means there's people walking by you that just survived a plane crash, like, what the fuck, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then there's people who haven't. So despite being in the same section of the plane, Jerry and Jan are actually separated by a thick wall of smoke.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But Jerry's found an exit point on his side of that smoke wall that leads out to the cornfield. So now he starts helping people get out. But pretty soon he realizes it's becoming too dangerous to stay inside the wreckage. Jan Brown says, quote, the smoke was coming toward my position. I've never seen anything so dark and so lethal. This dark gray like you would see in a tornado. Except it was coming from what was now the ceiling. It had been the floor. Just reeling toward my position. In the back of my mind, I thought, this could bl. We're trained that when fire is too hot, the water is too deep and the smoke is too thick. That's when you leave. So I left.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So basically almost everyone gets out before her, but then she just has to get out. Because also it's that thing of like staying inside to help people while you're overcome with smoke. You'll just end up dying inside.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're not helping at that point. You're pandering.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So while she is navigating tall stalks of corn, Jan bumps into the passenger that had been holding her. 22 month old baby boy, his name was Evan, on her lap during the flight. And she's now trying to get back inside the wreckage to go look for her baby, who was thrown from her during the crash.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now Jan blocks her way, trying to tell her, you need to wait for the rescue workers. It's not safe. You know, like, trying to protect this woman. And Jan remembers the woman looking her in the eye and saying, quote, you told me to put my baby on the floor, and I did, and he's gone. This is what makes that fucking show. I survived. So just incredible. It's because, like, these stories of survival, the reason it's so compelling is because people die. And so it's like the people who don't die get to tell the story. But that in and of itself is this burden. It is simultaneously, oh, my God, thank God, and what a miracle. And also this burden. And this, you know, it isn't like. Especially in her situation where she was representing the known policy of the time. And this woman's like, now I don't have my baby, and it's because of you. Horrible. So she adds, after she says that part, she says, I will live with that for the rest of my life. Baby Evan does not survive this plane crash.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, man, I was hoping you were gonna.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know, but I will a little bit right now because. Because Jerry Schemmel, who is the passenger who was helping people off the plane, is now also realizing he needs to get to safety. Everybody has the same things. Just like, it's time to run. He says, quote, I thought the wreckage might explode. It always does on tv. I thought about sprinting away, and at about that time, I thought I heard crying back inside. I didn't think about it. I didn't weigh the risks. I didn't think if I go back into the plane, I might not get back out. I just heard, reacted, and the next thing I knew, I'm back in the plane. So through this smoke, Jerry follows the sound of crying to a closed overhead bin, which is now on the ground because the plane is upside down, right? The cabin is upside down. And when he unlatches it and reaches inside, he pulls out a baby girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What the fuck?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He says, quote, I scooped her out with one arm, and as soon as I touched her and put her in my arm, she stopped crying. I held her out in front of me. She had a little scrape on her face, a cut below her left eye. I wiped the blood away with my sleeve, and that was it. That was the extent of her injuries. We were later Told she'd been thrown 20 rows through the plane into that overhead bin and came out with just a scrape on her face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That baby's name is Sabrina Michaelson and she is just about a week shy of her first birthday. She then is reunited with her family, who also all miraculously survived.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you imagine?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so it takes the first responders about half an hour to find the cockpit, which has been flung far away from the rest of the wreckage and is buried in the cornstalks. Cranes have to be brought in to save the four crew members inside, who all have life threatening injuries, but they all survived. All four of those men, including the guy that did not have to go up there and just was like, hey, let me help out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Damn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So of the 297 people who walked onto Flight 232 that day, 112 of them died in this crash, making it one of the worst air disasters in US history.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But at the same time, against all odds, 184 people survived this unsurvivable event, including three of the four infants that Jan Brunt had to tell the parents to put on the ground.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, what a miracle that anyone survived, let alone that many people completely. It's almost like if it had been anyone else in the cockpit, they weren't supposed to. Anyone was supposed to be alive survive that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right, right. And just the idea of like a plane cartwheeling and breaking into five pieces, like, like the idea that anyone could.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What was the area that had the most survivors? And yes, I always want to know that it's not first class. I think it's mid.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think it's ever first class.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's never first class.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think it's the back of the plane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think it's mid or back. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I do think it's probably. I mean, we should have a name for this, like, as opposed to corrections Corner. It's like hypotheses. That's definitely wrong corner. But this is my thing is if the explosion was in the back of the plane, it might change the odds. Right? Because it's not like a normal plane crash.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys know what to do. Tell us statistics, tell us stuff that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You also don't know about. But look up for one second on Google and act like an expert anyway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And email us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And email us. Okay. The survival of these people is a testament to the quick thinking and the teamwork demonstrated by Captain Al Haines, Captain Denny Fitch, Bill Reckerman, Dudley Dvorak, and the calm Leadership of lead flight attendant Jan Brown and her crew, and the courage of the regular people on board who became incredible heroes like Jerry Schemmel. The crew of Flight 232 become national heroes overnight. They are recognized by the US government with Polaris Awards, which honors exceptional and courageous airmanship. They're celebrated in a ceremony at the White House, and to this day, they're remembered for pulling off what many call an impossible landing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Damn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In the months after the crash, I actually. That reminds me of. Just remember that one. And it was at the Burbank Airport, and It was a JetBlue flight. And they had their front landing, like gear was turned to the side, so he had to come down and land on the back landing gear and then as slowly as possible, slow the plane down with. Without putting the front landing gear down. And then once he started to, it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Started sparking and catching fire.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But then it just. That went out. I watched it live on the news.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you lived by there at the time?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Sorry, I just interrupted this plane crash story to tell you another plane crash story. In the months after the crash, UPI reports that United's best pilots attempt to replicate Captain Haynes landing and the survival race in flight simulators. No one could do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It's almost like when they did land on accident, it wasn't supposed to happen, but maybe they wouldn't have survived.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They did it the best they could have. They literally figured out the best survival rate in a situation where it was hopeless. Still, Captain Haynes, like his colleagues, struggled with PTSD and survivor's guilt for years. And Captain Haynes humbly says, quote, we were just doing our job, but we did it together, and we gave those people a chance.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Incredibly, most of this cockpit crew returns to flying within a year of this craft.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you imagine? Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. They're like, we're really good at this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But, oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes and no. Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Captain Denny Fitch, who nearly dies from his injuries, is the one exception. He's told he'll never fly again. He's back in the cockpit within two years. So he just takes an extra year.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To react, to beat the odds. Damn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To take some deep breaths and be like, it's fine. I'm fine. A few Years later in 1991, in tribute to the skill and leadership demonstrated on that tragic July afternoon, United arranges a ceremonial flight from Denver to Chicago, the Same route Flight 232 was meant to complete. And they invite the surviving crew members on board. This will be Captain Haynes last Flight as a United pilot before he retires.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Captain Haynes passes away several years later in August of 2019, just shy of his 88th birthday. Captain Denny Fitch becomes a motivational speaker. And sadly, he dies of brain cancer in 2012 when he is 69 years old. Jerry Shumel, meanwhile, struggles emotionally following this disaster. And he credits his faith and his passion for bicycling with uplifting him from his trauma. And listening to this so good. Every year for the last decade, Jerry Shumel makes a 112 mile cycling trip to honor the 112 victims of Flight 232. And in 2019, he tells the New York Times, quote, I just want to make sure their families know they're not forgotten.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then there's lead flight attendant Jan Brown, who becomes a fierce lobbyist for increased child safety on airplanes. For more than two decades, she's devoted her life to banning the practice of babies sitting on their parents laps during flights.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This move is widely supported by pediatricians as well as the largest union of flight attendants in the United States who consider car seats to be the safest option for a small child while flying. Jan Brown dreams of getting a law passed in baby Evan's name. And she has said, quote, that's what I can do for Evan to make sure he's not forgotten. I'll be doing this for the rest of my life. My life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, damn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That hits you also. It's like the burden she is taking when it's like, this was your job. They told you this was the way you had to do your job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyone would do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You did everything right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It doesn't matter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Since this disaster, improvements have been made to airplane design and infrastructure that aim to prevent anything like this from happening again. And even though it's too late, just to reassure you, if you have a flight coming up in three months, months flying today is very, very safe. The most recent safety report from the trade group International Air Transport association found a very low accident rate of 1.13 per million flights, which means that there's roughly one safety incident for every 880,000 flights, making them extremely rare per the association standards. And that is the story of the impossible landing of United Flight 232.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy. I had never heard that. Incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I could have sworn I told the whole thing. I could have sworn I was like, I think I did this already. And it's like, no, you just watch that TV show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's incredible. Especially on the heels of that tragic crash in India. I mean, yo. Oops. I watched the video. Don't do that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, don't do that. It's horrible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's April 2020. A woman announces on Facebook that she has Covid and won't be seeking medical attention.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't want to be talked out of this plan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then she disappears. Anyone else think this is strange?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just had to. How did this happen?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen to what happened to Talina zar on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amy Robach and TJ Holmes. Here, Diddy's former protege, television personality Danity King. Alum Aubrey Oday joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the new.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O' Day covering the Diddy trial on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the years of making my true crime podcast Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country. Country with an unsolved murder in their community.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was calling about the murder of my husband.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The murderer is still out there. Each week I investigate a new case. If there is a case we should Hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Helen Gone Murderline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a story. Yeah, my story is lighter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Perfect. What if you're like, I also have a plane crash story?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not a plane crash story, but it does kind of go with the letter that you read about World War II because it's a World War II story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. But it's a heroic story that you're gonna love. It's a story of courage and heart and a very unlikely World War II hero. She wasn't a soldier, of course. She didn't carry a weapon. But she did help save lives. She even went on to have a post war television career. She's just, she's admirable. Amid the chaos of the Pacific theater, this tiny figure, no bigger than a loaf of bread, proved that bravery comes in all sizes. Today I'm going to tell you of the story of a fearless heroine named Smokey, a teacup Yorkshire terrier who not only helped construct vital communication lines under enemy fire, but is also widely celebrated as the world's first therapy dog. What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been on my future story list for so long. I've been waiting for the day to tell it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're telling it to the right person too. I don't know why. I think it's that thing where, like, why people like the pets they like or the animals they like or whatever. I have a real terrier thing I love. You know that's a kind of dog blossom. Is that kind of like. Like a little ratter? A little kind of like total.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, ratter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, the little wire hair. Kind of like they're up for it. They're barky and yappy, but they also are smart and they like to pick up one paw when they're like listening. They pick a paw.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Cookie does that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My favorite. I know. They're the cutest.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So the main sources I use for this story are an article in the Mansfield News Journal by Tim Clark and a book called Yorkie Doodle Dance, which is a memoir by Bill Nguyen, the veteran who raised her. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So It's February of 1944, and we're on the island of New Guinea. It's an island just north of Australia. And in 1942, Japan invades the island and New guinea becomes one of the most miserable battlegrounds in the Pacific. There's dense jungle and intense heat and several infectious diseases making this place an incredibly dangerous and grueling place to be. Be for everyone. That said, it's worth mentioning that the people who probably suffer the most, I will say, of course, is the island's indigenous population who are caught in the middle. And they do suffer horrific abuses. So we gotta say that too. So in 1943, an American soldier is in New guinea and he's fixing a broken down Jeep when he hears a whimpering noise coming from the tall grass. When he goes to investigate, he finds an abandoned foxhole. And in it, inexplicably, is a tiny four pound adult Yorkie. And this is so weird because it's not like a mix, it's not like a super mutt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Some stray dog from the local village or something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. It's like a Yorkie, which is actually like kind of a beautiful dog. Right. And I actually don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know. Yeah, it's a beautiful dog. I don't know any personally. So I went online to make sure. Sure that anyone who wants to look them up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you want to make sure those were available online?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, my favorite online. Yeah, totally. And I didn't really know anything about Yorkies, so I looked it up. It's a British breed of toy dog, terrier type. It's among the smallest of the terriers and all breeds, really. It weighs no more than seven pounds, and it originated in the 19th century in the English county of Yorkshire. Of course. Course. And they're introduced in North America in 1872. And they're described as having the confidence of a lion in a teacup body, just like you like. And petmd.com says they are affectionate, playful, and sometimes bossy little dogs that have a lot of energy and need to be mentally stimulated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, very true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so if you want to go on Instagram and look up a couple Instagram fans, famous Yorkies, so you can picture one, there's Ducky the Yorkie, Peanut the Yorkie, and my absolute favorite, Eddie on Wheels, this senior citizen Yorkie who is such a grump. The videos are just his owner trying to get him out of bed in the morning.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, oh, I've seen that one. HE GROWLS I just watched that on TikTok the other day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's hilarious. It's just such a. Yeah, so great. So that's, that's what we're dealing with here. Love it. So the soldier who finds this dog sells it to a friend. It's like, I don't want a dog. But this. This dude named Bill Wynn is really excited. He's about 19 or 20 years old. He's in the Air Force, and, you know, he's pretty miserable at the moment on New guinea. And having this dog just immediately lifts his spirits. Yeah, because Bill has always loved dogs. As a kid in Ohio, he would form deep relationships with the neighborhood stray days, and on several occasions adopted and trained them. He writes, quote, I know what kind of family lives in a house by observing its dog, and this is really offensive. If the dog is calm, slow paced, its people are quiet and serene. A charging, excitable dog probably lives with children. Yeah, them. Fighting words.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or people with childlike spirits.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, exactly. Bill had wanted to join the military after high school, but his fiance, a woman named Margaret, had convinced him not to. But it doesn't matter, because about a year later, he gets drafted and winds up in the Air Force in New guinea. Bill pays 2 Australian pounds for the little Yorkie. Which do you even want to try.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Two Australian pounds in?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the Australian pounds are worth at the time, like $6 and 44 cents.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So if you could do that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's the 40. Yeah, but it's a. It's an Australian pound, but American dollar in the 40s. I'm just gonna go ahead and throw it out there. It's like around 40 bucks, so it should be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not. It should. It seems like the soldier who was selling it knew he had a mark on his hand. This guy really wanted this dog.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he ends up paying, in today's money, $119 for the stock.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's, like, kind of expensive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Expensive. Especially when you're a GI over. It's like fighting World War II.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I don't think Bill played it cool. And he was like, do you want the dog? I guess I'll take the dog. He, like, pissed his face.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was, like, crying and like, please, it means the world to me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll pay anything. Yeah, you guys, you gotta play it cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he says, quote, I could hardly wait until quitting time to claim the weird little creature and give some serious attention to her physical condition. End quote. The soldier who found the dog uses that money to buy his way back into a poker game.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Game.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So everyone's happy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We all have our vices. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bill names the dog Smokey. So Bill and Smokey instantly have a special bond. Bill is an aerial photographer, which is so cool. So his main responsibility is to take reconnaissance photos. And he takes Smokey along with him on his flights over the Pacific, on many missions. In the cockpit with him, a tiny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yorkie in his little front pocket. Pocket.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. You could tuck them in your shirt. There were about 500,000 other war dogs that did bravely serve in World War II, which is so interesting. But these were official service animals that had been trained by the military. They're not 4 pound yorkies found in a hole, Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They had their own rations and dedicated medical care, but Smokey has access to none of these things. So Bill shares his rations with her. Her. She's particularly fond of scrambled eggs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are those powdered scrambled eggs?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know they are. Oh, God. Whenever he can find one, Bill gives Smokey an extra can of Spam, which is, like, bigger than she is. Smokey sleeps and Bill's cot in a little blanket made from the felt from a pool table. I know. To give Smokey a bath, Bill first dunks her in a helmet full of soapy water, and then a helmet full of. Full of clean water. Like, I'm just picturing war. It's so awful. Like, service animal you need an animal like, like you see the, the cats standing on the shoulders of servicemen and women and you're like, yeah, I would freak out. I'd be so happy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It would make you so happy. And also there is all that science about, like, there's that kind of animal pheromone animal, human pheromone, that when it's shared, it's like mutually beneficial to both. That's totally why we all like each other.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Despite the limited resources and complete lack of formal military training, Smokey is whip smart and learns commands from Bill very quickly. She turns out to be tough as nails as well. While many of the other war dogs in the Pacific theater develop paw injuries from running on coal strewn beaches, Smokey has no issues. Perhaps because she's so little and light on her feet. Bill teaches Smokey to sing along while he plays the harmonica. And she spends her evenings entertaining the troops. Can you imagine? On a little stage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine that is, they were hurting for entertainment. They're just like, Bill's dog is going to howl along as he plays the harmonica.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great. That's the best show I've ever seen in my life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Be quiet, be quiet. Smokey's singing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Phil says, quote, guys were arguing over who would get Smokey if I got knocked off. Which is why he said he started taking her on flights too. He's like, I don't want anyone else to get her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bill winds up coming down with dengue fever, which is a tropical mosquito borne illness, and he winds up in the hospital for five days and Smokey goes along with him. And while she's there, she makes the rounds, visiting all the other sick and wounded soldiers and cheering them up. Bill credits her demonstrating the helpfulness of dogs in hospital settings settings as paving the way for the common use of therapy dogs. Because it wasn't a thing yet. And like our friend Jocelyn Hughes, her beautiful sweet dog Nugget is one of those hospital visit dogs. And I'm so impressed because Cookie could never. She's scared of children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a very specific personality.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Frank would just walk in and pee on the hospital bed leg or something. Like, he just can't be trusted.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, you can pet me if you want to, but I'm also going to eat the crackers out of your purse or whatever is happening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm going to chew on a wire that is essential to your being alive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just like an airplane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Phil says, quote, she was the first therapy dog. All the lines of therapy go back to Smokey. She was a real spirit lifter, end quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, you would think if you were laying in bed injured from a war, a battle injury, and a teacup yorkie walked by, you'd be like, oh, I'm hallucinating, this is crazy. And then it's like, no, she's real.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pet her and you can pet her and she'll sing for you. So Smokey's best remembered for one particular important act of heroism that I'm gonna tell you about. So it's 1945, it's towards the end of the war, and Bill becomes involved in what's to be known as the Luzone campaign, which is a battle on the island of Luzon in the Philippines. At the beginning of this campaign, the army needed to construct an airfield. And to do this they needed to create some communication infrastructure. And this would mean about three days of digging to lay a telephone line. And doing that digging, those three days of digging would expose those soldiers who are digging to enemy fire because they're just right there in the open. And then also it would endanger at least 40 pilots who would have to try to protect them from a above. So just a really dangerous mission. But the US has one crucial weapon, Smokey, the four pound Yorkie. So right near the area where the army had intended to dig a ditch for the communications cable is a pre existing culvert with a small pipe in it about 8 inches wide, running about 70ft, the length of what will be the army's new Runway. So it's far too small for a person to go through or one of the trained military dogs, because they're dog, they're big, but it's plenty big for Smokey. So Bill ties a piece of kite string to her collar and that kite string is then tied to the communications cable. Bill goes to one end of the pipe, puts Smokey at the other, and then calls her over. Bill says, quote, she made a few steps in and then ran back. Come Smokey, I said sharply. And she started through again. And with some coaxing, she actually makes it through. So after her successful mission, the soldiers want to reward Smokey with a big steak. And Bill writes, quote, a big steak for a four pound dog is about the size of a mini burger. But she earned her reward. When the war ends, Bill has to smuggle Smokey back to the US in a flight oxygen mask case back home, which is so like Cookie wouldn't go in first class. She'd be like, go yourself. And this sweet dog is like, it's not for everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Smokey Was perfectly designed for this job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cookie has her own dog seat belt and dog car bed. I mean, back home, Bill and Margaret get married and Smokey begins appearing with Bill on television shows telling her story, because everyone hears about it and they're like so excited. She does tricks and sings along with the harmonica on these shows. In fact, during this period, Bill and his wife actually live in la. And Bill starts working as a dog trainer for movies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is so rad. Bill then works as a photographer for NASA for seven years. And then they move back to Cleveland, Ohio, where they're both originally from. And Bill becomes a photo journalist for the Cleveland Plain Dealer and has a decades long career there. So smokey dies in 1957 at the age of about 14, which is really old for a dog. Right. She's buried in Cleveland in an ammunition box. After Smokey dies, Bill publishes an obituary about her. And this actually leads him to her original owner, which is Bananas. A veteran who had also been stationed in New guinea gets in touch with Bill and says that he had found a Yorkshire terrier while he was stationed there, but she had gotten lost. So we don't really know her actual origins, but someone else had found her and she'd gotten lost. And what's really weird is that Bill had always noticed that when anyone said the word Christmas, Smokey would freak out and get all excited. Turns out the guy's like, I had named her Christmas. Oh, I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait a second though. So was that dog native to the island and the original guy found her or was like, was there a third person who smuggled her in?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like there's gotta be a smuggled in that story somewhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, you know, or is this where we find out Yorkies are actually native to New Guinea?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who knows? So now there's a memorial to Smokey where she's buried in Cleveland. It's a statue of a little Yorkie happily smiling from inside a military helmet. And there are 10 other monuments to her around the world. I know she's famous. Before the post war era, Yorkies were obscure and kind of not in favor. And their registration fell to an all time low of 18%. So they were on the way out. They weren't fashionable anymore. But Smokey, When Smokey comes out guns blazing, she's actually credited with a renewed interest in the breed. And in 2012 and 2013, the American Kennel Club ranked the Yorkshire terrier as the sixth most popular purebred in the United States.

[Georgia Hardstark]

States. Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you can definitely trace that back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To Smokey it's all Smokey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shoot it all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bill passes away in 2021 at the age of 99. Wow. He spent his final years with his beloved dog, another Yorkie, whom he named Smokey 2. And that's the story of Smokey, the World War II hero dog. We love a hero dog here on my favorite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love a hero dog. We love a dog owner that's also a hero by adopting a dog mid goddamn war.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was a good one. That was nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just that idea of Smokey, like having that piece of rope in her mouth, trying to run through that pipe, like how scary that would be for her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Run, run, run. And like a little.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If Smokey can do it, you can do it. Put a piece of string or rope in your mouth and get going.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If a 4 pound yorkie can thrive, not survive, thrive during wartime on an island, you've got this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're going to be okay. You're going to be okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You. You're basically like 24 pound yorkies in one person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What as you're as many four pound yorkies as. As your generational as you want inheritance. Right. It's up to you. The more the better.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Be the four pound Yorkie you want to see in your life and adopt. Make sure you go ad God damn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't shop.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to your local shelter and find the love of your life. That changes the trajectory of your life completely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

At Nora's graduation party, Frank and Blossom were there the whole time. And everybody's like, they're such good dogs. Where I'm like, what do you mean? They're just. They're standing around to try to get cheese and salami that falls charcuterie board, but okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I just love this story because it changed Bill's life in a incredible way. And I feel like if I hadn't had Elvis, I wouldn't be here right now. He, like, inspired me to try harder and to get people to pay attention to him because I wanted to. I wanted everyone to see how incredible he was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I mean, like, I think this is what everyone's. This is like what the Internet has really given us is truly understanding that the way we value our animals is the way how everybody feels about their animals. Your dog and your cat. Like, it means the world to people and they are like their own little people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just lovely. I love that story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. Yeah, I do too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, thanks, you guys. Are we ending it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think we should end this. Yeah. This should be the last episode. Goodbye. What about. So we end with that, Guys. Bye, guys. Thank you for everything. Bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye. Bye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's summertime. I think we all got the summer wrap it ups all the time. So let's just say we love doing this episode for you, as we always do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much for listening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, thank you for everything you've given us. You are our four pound Yorkie. Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Georgia Hardstark]

This has been an exactly Right production.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillacci.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our Researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Follow the show on Instagram at my favorite murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And now you can watch us on exactly right's YouTube page while you're there. Please like and subscribe. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're going to want to divorce me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How far would he go to cover up what he'd done?

[Georgia Hardstark]

The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific. And quite frankly, I question how many.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Other women are out there that may.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bring forward allegations in the future.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen to betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Marsha P. Johnson is the trans icon of the queer movement, and it's time to listen to her. I want to be one of the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

World'S biggest drag queens.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Today you can buy T shirts with her face on them. But her death in 1992 was never solved. I'm dying, dying, dying. Hear how Marsha's life and legacy reshaped our world. Just get your heart ready. Listen to afterlives on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. High key.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Looking for your next obsession?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to High Key, a new weekly podcast hosted by Ben o' Keefe, Ryan Mitchell and Yvie. Oddly, we got a lot of things to get into. We're gonna gush about the random stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We can't stop thinking about. I am high key.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Going to lose my mind over all things Cowboy Carter. I know, girl. The way she about to yank my bank account. Correct.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And one thing I really love about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is that she is celebrating her daughters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to High key on the iHeartrad Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.