497 - Cigarettes and Mothballs

Summary

My Favorite Murder Episode 497: "Cigarettes and Mothballs"

Release Date: September 11, 2025
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark
Podcast Network: Exactly Right & iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode of My Favorite Murder falls on September 11 and is thematically focused on the heroism aboard United Flight 93 during the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Georgia tells the story of the passengers and crew who bravely fought back against the hijackers, preventing further loss of life. Interwoven with personal reflections and commentary on the events of 9/11, Karen and Georgia discuss collective trauma, the passage of time, and the enduring impact of that day. The episode blends their signature conversational style with a deep dive into a solemn true crime story of national significance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tour Anecdotes, Nostalgic Food & Live Show Energy

(02:19 - 07:15)

• Karen and Georgia reconnect on their recent tour stops, sharing personal stories about backstage food (Uncrustables, Caesar salads, string cheese, “cigarettes and mothballs” scent from vintage clothing).
• They reflect on the energy and community at live shows (“Denver was the loudest audience I’ve ever heard. Both nights. But that first night was nuts.” — Karen, 04:36).
• Humorous banter about green room requests and the joys/pitfalls of life on tour.

2. Pop Culture Shout-Outs and Podcast Network News

(07:15 - 12:01)

• Karen celebrates actor Sean Hatosy’s Emmy win, recounting their playful past Twitter exchanges and how the loss of Twitter has changed their digital lives.
• Georgia provides an update to a past case (Buford “Walking Tall” Pusser): new evidence suggests he killed his wife, overturning long-held lore about the case (08:02).
• Highlights from other podcasts on the Exactly Right network, and behind-the-scenes with merch maven Nicole.

3. Reflecting on September 11, 2001

(14:41 - 17:40)

• As the episode lands on 9/11’s anniversary, Georgia remarks on how there are now adults who were born after 2001 and have no direct memory of that day, stressing the generational difference in trauma.
• Karen recounts personal moments of fear and paranoia in Los Angeles just after the attacks; both hosts reflect on the irrevocable paradigm shift.
• Georgia reads a resonant quote from Hunter S. Thompson about the world before and after 9/11:

  “…the 22 babies born in New York City while the World Trade Center burned will never know what they missed. The last half of the 20th century will seem like a wild party for rich kids compared to what's coming now. The party's over, folks.” (15:41)

4. Detailed Story: United Flight 93 and the Call to Heroism

(17:40 - 44:36)

Setting the Stage

• Georgia introduces the story of United Flight 93, the only hijacked plane on 9/11 that did not reach its intended target, focusing on the brave actions of the passengers and crew.
• She gives context about technology in 2001 (prevalence of airphones, early-stage cell phones, expensive and clunky texting).

Timeline of Events

• 8:00 AM (ET): United 93 boards at Newark.
• 8:42 AM: Flight takes off after delay, unknowingly behind the earlier hijackings due to the time lag.
• 8:19 - 8:46 AM: Other flights are hijacked and crash (detailed with quotes from flight attendants’ phone calls).
• 9:23 AM: United 93 pilots receive a warning about cockpit intrusions via written transmission ("beware any cockpit intrusion. Two aircraft hit World Trade Center.") — Georgia, 34:27
• 9:34 - 9:44 AM: Hijackers breach the cockpit; air traffic control picks up distress calls and the struggle on the radio.
• 9:57 AM: Passengers coordinate a counterattack (“everyone is running up to first class. I've gotta go. Bye.” — passenger, 39:29)
• 10:02 AM: The plane crashes into a field in Shanksville, PA, averting another urban tragedy.

The Human Side

• Todd Beamer’s Call

  • Central to the story is Todd Beamer’s phone call with Lisa Jefferson, a supervisor at the Verizon Airfone center. There is no recording, but Lisa’s memory and notes guide the retelling.
  • Lisa Jefferson stays on the phone, supporting Todd, who refuses to call his pregnant wife to spare her further trauma (“He did not want to upset his family and freak her out.” — Georgia, 20:42).
  • The passengers quickly decide to act, and Todd famously says, “Okay, let’s roll” before they storm the cockpit (40:18).

• Decision-Making in Crisis

  • Passengers learn about the broader attacks via phone conversations, realize the suicide mission, and plan to reclaim the plane, deliberately choosing a rural crash site to avoid more casualties on the ground.
  • “They fucking know the plane is going to crash and they're going to die. Let's do this somewhere where it will take as few, you know, people on the ground as possible.” — Georgia, 38:46

• Heroism & Legacy

  • The cockpit voice recorder captures the struggle and heroics (“Loved ones of the passengers and crew members on that flight can pick out the individual voices of the people they lost who are fighting.” — Georgia, 41:07).
  • The crash site becomes a memorial with the “Tower of Voices” — a 93-ft. structure with 40 wind chimes (one for each victim).
  • Poignant personal touches, such as Todd’s wife Lisa finding his old catcher's mitt for their son:

    “So now he has the whole gear from Daddy.” — Lisa Beamer, as read by Georgia, 44:33

5. Hosts' Reflections and Emotional Responses

(44:36 - 45:30)

• Karen and Georgia both express being deeply moved by the story’s bravery and selflessness:

  “People have the potential to be incredible. And sometimes it does take the worst of the worst to get that out of people.” — Karen, 44:38

• “Let’s roll” is reclaimed as a phrase of courage, not just political rhetoric.
• The episode ends with a call to bring out the best in ourselves daily, not just in moments of crisis.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Post-9/11 Trauma:
  “Like, the trauma that we collectively still have from it, from that day, and people hadn't been born yet. I can't even imagine.” — Georgia, 15:11

• On Heroism in Crisis:
  “Are you ready?... Okay, let's roll.” — Todd Beamer (as recounted by Lisa Jefferson and Georgia), 40:14–40:18

• Aftermath & Memorial:
  “There's also something called the Tower of Voices, a 93-foot tall giant musical instrument that holds 40 wind chimes. Isn't that beautiful?” — Georgia, 44:09

• Hosts' Closing Thoughts:
  “People have the potential to be incredible... let’s practice doing it while not in a dire situation.” — Karen, 44:36–44:54

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Topic | |----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:19 | Start of main show, tour stories, food & dressing room banter | | 07:16 | Sean Hatosy anecdote, Twitter reflections | | 08:02 | New Buford Pusser developments | | 14:44 | Introduction to 9/11 and Flight 93 | | 20:42 | Todd Beamer, Lisa Jefferson’s phone call | | 34:27 | Pilots warned mid-flight, United 93 timeline | | 38:04 | Passengers decide to retake plane | | 40:14 | The phrase “Let’s roll” | | 41:06 | Audio of the struggle, family members identify loved ones | | 44:09 | Description of the memorial, “Tower of Voices” | | 44:33 | Lisa Beamer’s interview—baseball glove for son, Todd’s legacy | | 44:38 | Host reflections on heroism |

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Tone and Style

Karen and Georgia maintain a conversational, irreverent, and heartfelt tone—balancing humor, personal anecdotes, and respectful, emotional storytelling. The tone shifts from lighthearted banter to somber reflection as the story of United 93 unfolds, culminating in an emotional, sincere ending that underscores the episode’s message of courage, loss, and community.

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Summary

“Cigarettes and Mothballs” is a moving tribute to the ordinary citizens on Flight 93 who acted with extraordinary heroism on September 11, 2001. Mixing their trademark blend of humor and gravity, Karen and Georgia honor their memory with care and compassion, drawing lessons on bravery, sacrifice, and the importance of cultivating resilience and kindness in daily life. This episode stands as a reminder of both the darkness and the incredible light within people—making history personal and its lessons enduring.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Seen me do it, but I swear to God, it's like I can tell the difference. It is like, hey, here's a little support for your brain, Here's a little support for your heart. Here's a little support for your nervous system. It's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

My favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Georgia Heartstark.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Karen Kilgariff and we're just here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To tell you a couple things before we go. Dish like four.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Four things and then we're gonna go back on tour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we'll just go back to the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hotel rooms constantly, for the rest of our lives forever. And eat chicken strips and Caesar salads.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, Caesar salads. You're being good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I don't eat it, I just order it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I see.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Vince eats it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He gets that roughage he does.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's so good at it. And I'm just like a child fucking. I just ate a fucking uncrustable. Like, I don't. I eat like a toddler.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I had my first uncrustable in the Denver dressing room.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Congratulations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Georgia came up and was holding uncrustables. Like, would you like some of these?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I asked for them in the dressing room because, like, the perfect snack.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they gave me like 12 of them. So I was like, I'm going to share the wealth. Everyone gets an uncrustable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so funny. They asked what I wanted in my dressing room and I'm like, I don't know. And I said mozzarella sticks, but I meant string cheese. And it's the same. It's like everyone kind of pauses, like, okay, I guess we'll get you hot mozzarella sticks. Impossibly. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

String cheese is a good idea.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's such a weird part of it that you're like, I don't. What do people fucking want in green rooms? I've never.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Coke.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't always coke. Cocaine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cocaine and edamame. I asked for edamame as well. I was trying to do protein things, but again, it's absolutely performative.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, right, Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not sure, but.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, we're back. Except we're not, because when this comes out, we're in Austin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, that's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Night two in Austin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Which I'm very excited about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think I'm gonna wear cowboy boots to the show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, local jokes. Get local work in the best way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In the best way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Give em what they want is what I meant for that one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you everyone who came to Denver. That was like such a fucking amazing time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was. I mean, I would have to say, to go back on stage after six years, it was perfection.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was great. We forgot how to do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They didn't care.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were so supportive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were really right there with us as we didn't know our lines in our own show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was so much fun. I hope you guys are coming to the live shows coming up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think they're gonna be fucking fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, first of all, I would just say Denver was the loudest audience I've ever heard. Both Nights. But that first night was nuts. Like, nuts. And there was Katie dressed as a hot dog, front and center.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, there's just a lot of. A lot of great stuff. Mary drove from South Dakota.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was just people repping from all over this great land. We were in our own little fantasy world in that theater. It was really great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Us and uncrustables.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Wait, were you giving me a signal to put my hair.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I was actually my own hair. When we were in Denver, I went to a vintage store, and I bought this shirt that I bought this blouse. What was it called?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gold Mine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gold Mine. Thank you. Oh, my God. And I steamed it, and it smells vintage now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know how that happens? Cigs, cigarettes, and mothballs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I have a thing that's very. Has nothing to do with anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for that. Just. It was very touching to me. So there was the, like, the technical Emmys, but there is an actor who I've always been a huge fan of, and I actually kind of became, you know, fake Twitter friends with for a little while. His name's Sean Hadassey, and he has been working since, I think he was in his early 20s. He's been in a million things. He used to be on a show called Southland, but now he's on the Pit, and he won for Best Supporting Actor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I have always loved him, of course. And somewhere in the Twitter world, he did something like he posted a picture. He was like, what is this outside of? And it was like, a bunch of that had goofy shit all over them, and people were just guessing, and I guessed, hot yoga studio in Santa Monica or something like that. And he wrote back, I expected better from you, Karen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then I was like, wait, what the fuck? Then I would post a joke, and he would be there making jokes back. And so it was almost like we were already friends. Like, I went to high school with Sean Hadassey, where I was just like my friend Molly, who I was also a Twitter friend. So she was like, what the fuck's going on? I'm like, I truly don't know. But just everybody act calm and pretend like, whatever. He's just a funny guy, but he's also just, like, one of those working actor people that, like, everybody loves and is so good in everything he does. And when I posted a thing when my mom died, he DMed me and sent me the loveliest message of, like, whatever. So I just wanted to say, because now Twitter's gone, right? I'm over on TikTok, on my TikTok Island. On your own with no connections to anything. And I'm just fucking. Basically a weird lurker. I don't get to write my jokes or do my fun stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they really ruin that for me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They ruined everything, those 140 characters. Congratulations to Sean Haddasy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's amazing. I have an update or a thing that is. That has nothing to do with this except it's true crime.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, maybe we do more stuff like that on our true crime podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I guess so. In July of 2024, I did, on episode 436, called you, me and American geography. I covered Buford, who was the walking tall guy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And about how they got ambushed. His wife was killed by the people who were like going after him and how he became this hero. Well, looks like he killed his wife.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. Spoiler alert. They think he did it. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like all the lore around that man is false.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. And they think he killed her. They, like looked at the evidence again. The wife's name was Pauline. It was said that she was shot in the car while riding with him. But new evidence shows she may have been shot outside the car and Buford had been shot in the face, which was like a huge. And he survived, you know, but it's like, oh, that looks like a self inflicted gun wound now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now do we know for a fact or is this just is like we think and we're getting close to the answer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think they're pretty set on it. He's dead, you know, long dead. So it's like nothing could be done. But there's like. The new evidence is pretty damning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I guess also it's the kind of thing where. And will the new evidence even matter? Because oftentimes when like lore happens like that, it's just set and people kind of never change their mind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, it's almost like. Yeah, like cold cases that are just so fascinating. It's like, oh, fuck, man. You find out new shit all the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a real twist.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know, I know, I know. Should we do some highlights?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. We have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some highlights.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've got a new Buried Bones episode this week called Blood on The Cobblestones Part 1. Kate and Paul head to Boston and 1962, where a series of women are found strangled. And this story is just beginning.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, wow. Speaking of buried bones, Kate and Paul are going on vacation and they're Taking you with them. That's right. Buried Bones is setting sail this October as part of Virgin Voyages, first ever true crime cruise.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you imagine?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I cannot imagine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you think that ID channel will just zap out? Because everyone will be on it at 11:30, like buffet, dance, party, whatever. Yeah, then you need those Forensic Files.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God, that sounds amazing. They're stopping in the Dominican Republic and Bimini and Bahamas. And there'll be a live taping of Buried Bones and a meet and greet with Kate and Paul. So make sure you check that out if that's your thing@virgin voyages.com truecrime.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that's gonna be really fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also amazing places to go. Okay, then. Over on I said no Gifts, Bridger is joined by some hilarious guests. Lauren Lapkis, Taryn Killam, and Vinnie Thomas. My very favorite. If you haven't followed Vinnie Thomas on either Instagram or TikTok, he is one of the funniest. He was just on I said no Gifts individually. Anyway, they're live in Los Angeles and the topics include deodorant application and OJ Simpson, POG and the Capital One Cafe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then over on our newest podcast, Trust Me, Lola and Megan are joined by journalist Jane Borden. Oh, my God. Good friend of the podcast, friend of the pod, author of the book Cults Like Us that I've mentioned here before. It's so freaking good. She talks about how cult thinking is baked into American life, from doomsday myths to self help empires, and why we're all more susceptible than we think. Fascinating stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's very cool. And also, finally, over on that's Messed Up. Kara and Liza covered the SVU episode Dare, which is the tragic story of actress Isabella Grasso, and discussed the gruesome case of Dr. Michael Mastro Marino. Oh, I was flipping around on deep cable last night. Wanna see what I saw?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This commercial right here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. It's Nicole, right? Mm.

[Nicole (Merch Department)]

Hi, it's Nicole from the merch department. I've just returned from a very dangerous excavation. We found artifacts. Ancient, powerful, possibly cursed. It's the OG Stay Sexy tee. Dug up from the year 2017. Designed by Cat Solon, preserved by Time, now reissued in a unisex fit. Some say these belong in a museum. We say they belong on your body. Available [e-mail]. get yours before they go extinct.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, Nicole. What a treasure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Another great ad from Nicole.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's such a treasure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she's actually at all our live shows. If you're a huge Nicole Head. Then you gotta come to the live shows cause she sells the merch.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. She's at her merch booth fucking taking over. Yep.

[Cindy Crawford]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty. When Dr. Sabah and I decided to do a skincare line together, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty. Which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a a reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're going to get results and then you just go out and live your life. Meaningful beauty confidence is beautiful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.

[Washable Sofas Advertiser]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, well, I'm solo today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. It's your day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's my day. It's also 9, 11.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When this comes out, never forget.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In the spirit of not forgetting, I'm gonna tell you a story that happened exactly 24 years ago on September 11, 2001. As you know, Karen, four hijacked airplanes were used to conduct the deadliest attack on American soil. And what boggles my mind is that there are people who listen to this podcast who weren't even born yet. Yeah. Who are adults.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's fucking crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, the trauma that we collectively still have from it, from that day, and people hadn't been born yet. I can't even imagine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The weirdest thing. And I know. I feel like we've talked about this, but I remember, like, three days later, we all, me and my friends, went to the beach and we were in the water, you know, out in Santa Monica, and a plane came to land, and we all just froze in the water. Everybody at the beach was like, what's gonna happen right now? And it's like the plane just landed. Normal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Constantly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was a complete paradigm shift, obviously.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. Totally. It changed the way you saw the world completely. A week after the attacks, the famous journalist Hunter S. Thompson, who then had a column for ESPN's sports writing site Page 2, wrote, quote, the 22 babies born in New York City while the World Trade center burned will never know what they missed. The last half of the 20th century will seem like a wild party for rich kids compared to what's coming now. The party's over, folks. End quote. And he was correct.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dang. Hunter Thompson knew it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine, like, going into labor when that's happening and you have to go to the hospital?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, in New York, and it's basically like, now we're all in a disaster movie that no one has even ever imagined.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. It's like the series finale of some fucking hospital movie that, like. It's awful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So crazy. I had friends that had to run. They lived down near Wall street and they had to run out of their apartment with no shoes on and, like, just to get away from the building.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus Christ.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So nuts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The shockwaves from that day have reshaped our country, and our world. And we're still living with the consequences. But today's story is about some of the people who in the moment decided to sacrifice themselves to ensure that as little harm as possible would come to their fellow Americans. This is the story of the passengers and crew of United 93, the only hijacked plane that did not hit its intended target.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great idea, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Thank you to Allie and Molly for suggesting this. I've been waiting to do this, and today of all fucking days.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, really.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Along the way, we'll talk about some of the other people on board the other planes who sounded the alarm and relayed as much information as possible over the phone. It's because of these phone calls that we have any information about what happened on those planes. I also want to talk about how, like, cell phones were, like, in their infancy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone maybe had a cell phone. There was no texting, though. There was no sending photos. If you were on an airplane, you couldn't make a call. Most of the time, yeah, probably not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was texting, but it was that you had to do. You had to press the little number a certain amount of times for the certain letter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I was so good at that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was so exhausted.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God, it was exhausting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was ridiculous.

[Georgia Hardstark]

People would not understand today also, it's so expensive. So expensive. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Calling from an airplane. Can you like? Yeah. So the main sources I used for the story were an article in the New Yorker by Paige Williams, a segment from 60 Minutes, and the 911 Commission Report. And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So we're going to start in Oakbrook, Illinois, a Chicago suburb. And we're at the customer service call center for Verizon's airphone service. Remember, they had phones on the back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of the seats with the wire that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Came out, you'd press this button and a like, phone would pop out of the back of the seat in front of you on an airplane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was $10aminute.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it was like, so expensive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was so expensive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody used them like they were for show. It felt like. Well, a woman named Lisa Jefferson is a supervisor at this call center. She spent the morning working in her office, and sometime after 8am Central Time, a co worker asked if she's heard that two planes have crashed into the World Trade center buildings in New York. Lisa hadn't heard yet. And at about 8:45am she steps out of her office to find out more. And she's only taken A few steps when one of the call center reps she supervises flags her down. She says she's on the phone with a man who is on another plane that has been hijacked. Lisa has the representative get some more information for her to relay to her supervisors. And by the time Lisa has done this and returns, she can tell that the representative is having trouble handling the information she's hearing. Obviously she's panicking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Lisa has to lift her physically out of the chair and sit her down next to her so she can get on the call. Cause this woman is just frozen in fear. Yeah. She puts on the headset and starts talking. To quote a soft spoken, calm man, as she puts it, he introduces himself as Todd. So Todd Meamer is 32 years old and he's from Cranberry, New Jersey. He has two little boys, David, who's 3, and Drew, who was 1, and one more baby on the way. His wife, coincidentally, is also named Lisa. Todd works as a software salesman for the software company Oracle. He had flown out of Newark that morning to attend a meeting in San Francisco. And he was just gonna take the meeting and come right back home to be with his family. He was supposed to the day before, which is like fucking always, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he and Lisa had just gotten back from a trip to Italy and he wanted to spend that night with his kids. So he took the flight the next day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, he rushed home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So Todd is a baseball fanatic. He can't wait to start his kids in the sport. He's already assembled a full catcher's uniform for his three year old. Right. Like I could see Vince doing that. Everything except the mitt. And that's because Lisa, the wife had put her foot down about this. She's like, he's three years old, he doesn't need the whole thing yet. Like, let's wait on the mitt, you know. These are. They're expensive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's sometimes reported that Todd was trying to call his wife initially, but the call wouldn't connect. And that he called the earphone customer service desk and said. But according to Lisa Beamer, the wife, and Lisa Jefferson, Todd didn't try to call his wife at all. He knew she was home with her two very young children and she was pregnant. And Todd did not want to upset his family and freak her out. So. Cuz it was 2001, which is ancient. There's no transcript of Lisa Jefferson's call with Todd. It was not recorded. Lisa took some notes on a post it and those were what was handed over to the FBI. So everything we know about the conversation is from Lisa's memory. There was a transcript circulating online, but it was fake. So of the four planes that were ultimately hijacked that morning, Todd's flight from Newark, United 93 had been the last to take off. Between the four planes, there were 19 hijackers total, and four of them are on Flight 93. Each of the other flights have five hijackers on board, and it's guessed that the final hijacker was detained upon attempting to enter the United States. So there's only four on his flight. All 19 hijackers are members of the Al Qaeda terrorist network, and most, but not all of them are from Saudi Arabia, where Al Qaeda has the strongest presence. The hijackers are between the ages of 20 and 33, with the majority of them being in their early 20s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know the whole thing just, like, watching radicalization, and that's what we're doing in this country now. But it just, like that thing of there is no end there, you know, it's the one end, actually. Sorry. It's a zero sum game. Like, it's just so sad. And then the idea that something has gotten into their head to the degree where they're like, yep, I'm gonna die for this belief, and I'm gonna kill a bunch of other people for this belief. Yeah, it's a horrible thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So some of the hijackers had been in America for years and have attended American flight schools. Other hijackers that were there just to subdue the passengers and crew mostly arrive in the US later, and they are kept separate from the pilots until the day of the attack. I mean, you can read about this and watch the details about this everywhere, obviously, so I'm not gonna get super in the weeds. But all four of the Flight 93 hijackers are seated in first class in the front of the plane. So the TSA will be created in response to 9 11, which is so wild.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. You used to be able to go up to the gate.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah. You could walk your person up to the gate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There was no centralized authority performing security screenings at every airport. The airlines instead contract out their security to individual companies. You know, so it's just. There's no rules, Essentially, there's no rules. Surveillance footage from these checkpoints show that several of the hijackers set off the metal detectors, and then they get checked with a wand that morning. In the footage, one of them appears to something clipped to his back pocket. But he's allowed through the checkpoint without it being examined. And it will turn out that most of the hijackers were able to get knives or box cutters on board, which is why you have to take your shoes off now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, you absolutely could have a box cutter in those Dr. Scholls. I mean, it doesn't make sense anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know it sucks that we like, we do things in response to tragedy, not to like circumvent it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. There's no one sitting down and preventatively maybe they are, but I just watched a woman do this TikTok where she's like, so you're telling me that my pet has to stay in quarantine till his vaccines come all the way through, but there's not gonna be any vaccines for children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's just like, oh my God, like the mentality of things where you're just like, how are we? There's no not overriding logic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. It's fucking mayhem now. It's total mayhem.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

So United 93 boards around 8am Eastern time. There are 33 passengers who range in age from 20 to 79. They're from all over the country. Minnesota, California, Florida, some even from overseas in Germany, in Japan. It's believed that the first hijacking on the first plane, American Airlines 11, begins around 8:14 in the morning. Shortly after that flight took off out of Boston's Logan Airport. This is when communications between air traffic control and the pilots started going unanswered. So that's how they know something had started. There were seven crew members aboard that day and two heroic flight attendants on that flight are able to separately contact American Airlines to sound the alarm that something had happened. At 8:19am Betty Ann Ong calls the American Airlines reservations desk from the jump seat in coach and informs them that she believes the flight has been hijacked since the first they hear about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She says that two first class flight attendants have been stabbed and that she believes that the hijackers have taken over the cockpit. She says people are having trouble breathing and that she thinks the hijackers sprayed Mace up in first class.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God, I never heard any of that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, me neither. At 8:29, Madeline Amy Sweeney, another flight attendant on American Airlines 11 who goes by Amy, also contacts American Airlines reaching their flight services desk in Boston and confirms that two flight attendants had been stabbed and that an Additional passenger in first class was also killed. It's believed that this was a man named Daniel Lewin and that he had attempted to stop the two hijackers seated in front of him, not realizing that additional hijackers were seated behind him. So he just jumped into action. Wow. Yeah. American Airlines personnel reach the air traffic control tower in Boston, which is already aware that there's a situation on Flight 11 because of the dropout in communication, but also because one of The American Airlines 11 hijackers mistakenly radios them at 8:24am he says, quote, we have some planes, end quote, and tells the passengers to sit down. It seems like he thought he was using the plane's PA system, but instead had broadcast that out to pilots and air traffic controllers. So you're just fucking flying your plane and you hear that. Terrifying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Both Betty and Amy remain on the line with American Airlines personnel calmly relaying information. At 8:46am, Amy said she can see water and buildings and that the plane is flying way too low. Both phone calls end When American Airlines 11 hits the north tower of New York's World Trade Center. And it's just horrific. She seems to know what's coming across the river. In Newark, New Jersey, Todd's flight, United 93 has taken off four minutes earlier.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So like just if there was just some delay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, some delay. At 8:42am After a 25 minute delay on the tarmac. So if it had just been a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Little bit longer, A little longer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Between the hijacking of American Airlines 11 and United 93 taking off, the two other flights have also taken off. Those are United Airlines 175from Boston to LA, which took off at 8:15, one minute after the American Airlines 11 hijacking began. So too late by then. And American Airlines 77, which took off from Washington DC's Dulles Airport at 8:20. These two flights are hijacked within 10 minutes of United 93 taking off. So air traffic control loses contact with American Airline 77, the flight that left out of Dulles at 9am about 15 minutes after the north tower had been hit. By this point in time, the FAA is aware that multiple hijackings are taking place, but they have not put out the warning to other planes that are currently flying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, what would you do?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, there is no protocol in place for this kind of thing. Oh, because this has never happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because multiple. Yeah, it's like one hijacking at a time in the past. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So they don't know when to like emergency land. They don't tell them to stop taking off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, imagine it's like, have you ever seen one of those maps with all the planes flying and how many are flying at the same time? And you're supposed to get on a mic and be like, guys, everybody land.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Y and then imagine being with the pilots, like, on the tarmac that day who was told not to take off, and the people on the plane who are like, what the fuck's going on? You can't tell them. They'll freak out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just the worst. An impossible situation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. At 8:59, a passenger aboard United Airlines 175 named Brian David Sweeney. Oh, my God. Have you heard this? He leaves a message for his wife on his home answering machine. Have you heard it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's fucking heartbreaking. He says in a calm voice, Can I read it to you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Quote jules, this is Brian. Listen, I'm on an airplane that's been hijacked. If things don't go well and it's not looking good, I just want you to know I absolutely love you. I know. I want you to do good. Go have good times. Same to my parents and everybody. And I just totally love you. And I'll see you when you get there. I know. And it's like his voice is, like, kind of calm, but you can tell it's, like, resigned. It sounds resigned to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just like, I just need you to know this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is a beautiful thing, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And saying, I want you to do good and go have good times. Knowing like, yeah, she's about to lose everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a loss of a man that would place that call.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God damn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. So five minutes later, that flight strikes the South Tower of the World Trade Center. The attacks in New York ultimately killed 2,753 people. So at this point, back on United 93, they've been in the air for about 20 minutes when that happens. And in the beginning, the first tower, we weren't sure what it was. Even the second tower, that's when you started to hear about the word terrorist attack. But it was slow. I mean, the news. I was with my grandma, living at her house at the time. The news came in so slowly. And it came in as the newscasters were learning it as well. Fucking no one knew anything. And then suddenly there's another plane that had been hijacked and another plane, and it was just very. It was pandemonium.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It's like, started surreal, then got weirder. I've told you this already. But my sister called me and I didn't get up. Cause it was like really early. And she kept calling. And when I finally picked up, she was like. She said, they attacked the White House. Which I thought she meant aliens. So it was just this like, what, what, what? And I turned on the tv, but then it was this like, when the first plane went, you were like, oh, what a terrible accident.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah. My grandma came and woke me up. You know, my 100-year-old grandma, she woke me up in a really nervous, weird way that was like after the first plane had hit. And she was like, I don't want to be alone anymore. And he came and woke me up. I was like a fucking 20 year old brat, you know, Like. And we watched it together. I know. Okay. The pilots on Flight 93 are named Jason Dahl and Leroy Homer. And they have already heard the mistaken transmission go out from one of the hijackers. When at 9:23am a United Airlines dispatcher named Ed Bollinger lets them know about the other hijackings. Sending written transmission, quote, beware any cockpit intrusion. Two aircraft hit World Trade center, end quote. So they're fucking midair and they get that fucking message.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And there's a movie called United 93 that seems to like, be pretty close to the actual events.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is terrifying and really hard to watch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I know, I remember when that movie came out, I was just like, who has the kind of weekend where they feel like they have the capacity to take that in?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Well, I just watched the last scene that I'm gonna tell you about, and it was. It was brutal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A few minutes later, air traffic control sees that that plane loses 700ft of altitude out of nowhere. And the pilots issue a mayday call. This message is received by an air traffic control tower in Cleveland. The plane levels off, and 30 seconds later, the Cleveland air traffic controllers hear the sound of a struggle. And First Officer Leroy Homer saying, quote, get out of here, end quote. So obviously that's when they breach the cockpit, it seems like. And also like there wasn't the security with the cockpits. That there is now. Like, they block the aisle when the pilot has to come out to go to the bathroom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like this whole protocol, it was not like that then at all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like they'd leave the door open sometimes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The last flight I was on, I think on the way to Denver, the pilot came out a bunch. Yeah, they kept being like, oh, no, you can't be up here, whatever. And I was just like, I've never seen pilots walk around this much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's very weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I would have been like, oh no, what's happening?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just like Charlie Horse. Is that okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Charlie horse. Meanwhile, at 9:37, American Airline 77 hits the Pentagon in Washington D.C. all passengers and crew on board are killed, as are 125 people in the building. Two minutes after this, Cleveland's air traffic controllers hear a message from the hijackers that are on United 93, which had been intended for the passengers, but again was broadcast on the ROG channel. In it, the hijacker falsely claims there's a bomb on board. So it seems like that's how they used. They subdued people as saying there was a bomb and told everyone to remain in their seats. Hijackers engage the plane's autopilot and the plane turns heading southeast towards Washington D.C. right. Then they turn off the plane's transponder, making it more difficult to track, which shouldn't be a thing you can turn off probably. Right. They can't do that anymore, can they?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who knows?

[Georgia Hardstark]

These transponders these days, Truly, the hijackers on the previous three planes had done the same thing. And it's believed that the intended target of this plane is either the White House or the Capitol building. Yeah, the hijackers split up the passengers, sending most to the back of the plane and some to first class. And we know this because the passengers and crew in the back of the plane start making phone calls, including Todd. Todd uses the air phone and wound up talking to Lisa Jefferson at the Verizon call center. As I told you in the beginning, the of again, we don't have the transcript, but Lisa says that she does not tell Todd about the attacks in the World Trade center and the Pentagon, not wanting to freak him out. But there are at least 10 passengers on the phone at the same time as Todd. And so the people on Flight 93 do learn about the other attacks. So, like it's not an isolated incident and this is a suicide mission. Like finding that out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Horrifying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. They also felt themselves change direction, so they are aware that they are now flying back to the east coast, which is bad news. Yeah. At multiple points throughout her conversation with Todd, Lisa offers to connect him with his wife, but he tells her that he doesn't want to scare her and the children.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It seems from Lisa's end of the conversation then that a decision is made pretty quickly in less than a 10 minute time frame. It seems like all those passengers back there Decide to retake the plane, which is, like, fucking bananas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. How. Who did it first?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. Like, yeah, this, like, collective. Like, we can't just stand here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And these things already have. Like, it's almost better that they knew what had already happened because otherwise, maybe they thought everything would be fine. They were just hijacking a plane. It wasn't a suicide mission. But they found out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they're like, we gotta do something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. It's so incredible if you're up against it. Gotta do something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Like, we outnumber them. I mean, and they thought they had a bomb. It's like. But fuck it. Yeah, we have to do something. I mean, I am just. It's unbelievable. So the widow of one of the other passengers says that her husband, while he's on the phone with her, then tells her that a group is planning to fight and that they're waiting until they are above a rural area with no houses because they are aware that crashing the plane will be the likely outcome. They fucking know the plane is going to crash and they're going to die. Let's do this somewhere where it will take as few, you know, people on the ground as possible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, they're thinking of everybody else the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whole time because they know it flies into a building. It's again, like, you know, in Washington, where they think they're going, it's gonna kill tons of people. We need to take it down now somewhere which has the least amount of damage. But I know I'm going to die. Like, that is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, like that they're not just sitting there frozen, like, the person rightfully was, like, freaking out. It's like they're the ones taking action and they're in the eye of the storm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. So at 9:57am everyone who is on the phone with loved ones say that they have to go. Everyone gets off the phone. One caller who's not named in the reporting says, quote, everyone is running up to first class. I've gotta go. Bye. End quote. It's just like they decided. Todd asks Lisa to recite the Lord's Prayer with him, and he asks her to tell his family that he loves them, and then asks her to relay a private message to his wife, which Lisa Jefferson has never shared, which is like, oh. Then Lisa hears Todd ask the other people around him, quote, are you ready? End quote. And then she hears them say, yes, Todd's the leader. It seems like Todd is part of the people who are, like, leading this. Then Todd says, quote, okay, let's roll.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's right. Cause Neil Young wrote the song, Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So let's roll becomes this well known part of the story and it's like, kind of used in a way that is very Hollywood. Hollywood, but also political. Like George W. Bush was. Turns it into a political phrase. Oh, right. And it just kind of is gross. But like. So let's just look at it now as a man who knew he was about to die said it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A man who knew he was about to die and becomes a leader on a plane where these days people can't even like sit next to each other without fighting. And this guy gets everybody together and then gets them to do that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's roll.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's fucking roll.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The cockpit's voice recorder was recovered from Flight 93 and it captures the sound of what the 911 Commission's report will later call a sustained assault outside the cockpit doors.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Loved ones of the passengers and crew members on that flight can pick out the individual voices of the people they lost who are fighting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of course they can. Can you imagine if you lose someone and then you get a tape of their last moments? You would be able to fucking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Their last moments fighting for civilians lives. I mean, that's just. It's so heroic. I can't even. It's that word isn't even. Yeah. The hijackers try to disable the passengers by flying erratically to like throw them all over the plane. And the voice recorder captures the sound of things crashing and breaking glass. The voice recorder captures one hijacker asking the other if he should just crash the plane now. And the other hijacker says to wait until the people breach the cockpit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like they realize that they're gonna get overtaken.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And so he says, wait. The passengers continue their assault and within two minutes, one of the hijackers yells, put it down. Like they realize they've been overcome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Put the plane down?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Oh. This leads the 911 Commission to believe that the passengers and crew were about to overcome them. And in that movie it shows that. So at 10:02am, United93, after just skimming the village of Lambertsville with 4,000 people in it, crashes into an abandoned strip mine in the rolling hills of Shanksville, Pennsylvania. So they took it down in the middle of nowhere, barely skimming a town full of people to save everybody, everybody's life but their own. Fuck. I know, I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also, how chills.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have chills.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, how did they do that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That mentality.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How did they do that? Bravery wise, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Incredible, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone on board is killed instantly, but there are no additional casualties on the ground. The plane would have been about 20 minutes away from Washington, DC. Fifteen minutes earlier, US airspace had been shut down and all flights had been ordered to land finally. And it is possible that before reaching D.C. united 93 would have been shot down by military aircraft because at that point, they had been deployed. However, this would not have ensured the safety of people on the ground the way the passengers had taken such care to. Like, they just were trying to get the plane down any way they could. And passengers were like, we gotta do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It where there isn't anybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The crash site in Shanksville has since been turned into a memorial honoring the passengers and Crew of United 93. In a clearing in the trees, there's a wall of names with a white marble block for each of the 40 passengers and crew members on board. There's also something called the Tower of Voices, a 93 foot tall giant musical instrument that holds 40 wind chimes. Isn't that beautiful? Yeah. One for each voice that was cut short on that flight. Okay, you're gonna cry. So In January of 2002, a couple months later, Lisa Beamer welcomes a baby girl named Morgan. Later that year, she gives an interview on NBC about her husband Todd. And she says that just a few weeks earlier, she'd been digging through some of Todd's things in their home's basement. She says, quote, I found a catcher's mitt that Todd had bought, and I gave it to David, and he was thrilled. So now he has the whole gear from Daddy. End quote. I know. And that is the story of the passengers of United Flight 93 on 9 11.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God damn it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, people have the potential to be incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And sometimes it does take the worst of the worst to. To get that out of people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And let's practice doing it while not in a dire situation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The act is bringing out the best in you in everyday life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In everyday life. And people have it in them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, God damn. Let's roll.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's roll. All right, well, thank you guys for listening to this solo episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry I cried. I'm kind of tired.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We love a good Karen cry. Everyone knows that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we love your support while we do any kind of type of version of this show so we can do all of the different things we're doing right now. We're so thrilled to be out there, seeing you again, doing it in person. It really is the best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's thrilling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so fun. Anyway, stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been an Exactly Right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squilacci.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our researchers are Marin McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Follow the show on Instagram at My.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Favorite Murder Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now you can watch us on exactly right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe. Goodbye.

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