499 - First Live Show in 6 Years!!

Summary

My Favorite Murder – Episode 499: "First Live Show in 6 Years!!" (Denver, September 25, 2025)

Overview: A Triumphant Return to the Stage

Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark return to the stage in Denver for the first live "My Favorite Murder" show since 2019, marking a celebratory and slightly chaotic comeback. The episode is filled with their signature blend of humor, personal anecdotes, crowd interactions, and, of course, two captivating true crime cases from Colorado. The energy is electric, the audience is wild, and the live format brings out the duo’s improvisational best.

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Key Themes and Episode Flow

• Live show jitters, nostalgia, and friendship banter
• Audience interactions and live quirks
• Fashion emergencies and menopausal honesty
• Two Colorado-centric true crime tales:
  • The murder of William Dickens, one of Colorado’s oldest cold cases
  • The infamous "Killdozer" rampage of Granby, Colorado
• Hometown stories from the audience, Denver style

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Segment Breakdown & Notable Highlights

1. Welcome Back to Live Shows (03:38–09:19)

• The show opens with Karen and Georgia reveling in the return to the stage.
• Banter about outfit stress, vintage fashion, and menopausal heat provide comic relief and relatability.
• Memorable audience interaction: spotting someone in a hot dog costume, riffing on local Denver references, and “hot dog shame.”
• The duo recalls favorite live show moments, including the infamous “barf in the aisle” incident.
• Classic Karen: “There’s gonna be things that you remember that we do not remember. It’s been six years since we have been on stage.” (04:32)

2. Setting the Tone (09:19–18:29)

• Karen and Georgia discuss live show culture, podcast quirks, and the importance of comedic true crime as a genre.
• Humor around being "drag alongs" (attendees not familiar with the podcast).
• Acknowledgement of the current political climate and women's rights ("Since the last time we saw you, our rights have been taken away. Our bodily autonomy has been taken away..." – 13:01).
• Warm acknowledgments for their research and production team.

3. True Crime Story 1: The Murder of William Dickens (21:05–55:07)

Synopsis

Georgia presents the unsolved 1914 murder of William Dickens—Longmont, Colorado founder, businessman, and philanthropist—shot through his library window in a case full of twists, dead ends, and family suspicion.

Key Facts & Moments

• Dickens’ prominent status; the shooting’s shock to the community.
• Colorful family history: Born on a ship, distant Charles Dickens relation, and Gold Rush era roots.
• After multiple false leads, attention falls on William's son, Rienzi, whose debt and access to the murder weapon make him the prime suspect.
• Complex courtroom drama, suspicious confession letters, alibi issues, and technical retrials—yet a divided local opinion on guilt.

Standout Quotes

• Georgia: "You can't. You have to sit there for three minutes. And so smiling for three minutes is kind of hard." – (32:56, on vintage photographs)
• Karen: “He participated in the Sand Creek Massacre. Yep. You did that one to me. ... Did I? How would I fucking know?” – (37:04)
• Georgia: "My diamonds are haunted by this fucking story. Stop it." – (23:56)
• The surreal, comedic asides about Denver’s streetlights, fashion, and the audience’s deep local knowledge keep the tone both irreverent and affectionate.

Resolution

• Despite suggestive evidence against Rienzi Dickens, he is eventually acquitted, leaving the murder officially unsolved.
• Georgia speculates possible alternative theories, including insurance fraud and self-arranged death: “What if he had an insurance policy taken out on himself... He has himself killed. Yeah. This is terrible." (54:04)

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4. True Crime Story 2: The Killdozer Rampage (58:31–102:19)

Synopsis

Karen recounts the astonishing 2004 story of Marv Heemeyer in Granby, Colorado—a skilled, introverted welder who, after years of local disputes and grudges, armor-plated a bulldozer and went on a destructive rampage (the infamous "Killdozer").

Key Facts & Moments

• Marv’s backstory: military service, snowmobiling obsession, small-town property battles, and festering resentment toward local officials.
• Escalation of conflict: property auctions, septic system disputes, failed negotiations, and environmental complaints.
• Years of isolation and preparation, culminating in the purchase and transformation of a Komatsu bulldozer into a tank-like weapon.
• The rampage: Marv destroys multiple buildings (town hall, library, bank, newspaper office, and a Ford Expedition), fires shots, but miraculously kills no one but himself.

Standout Quotes

• Karen: “He’s like a ballerina with the muffler. Locals think that Marv is nice, he's friendly, he's making friends. ... But there is one problem. For Marvin, it's Bud Wilson, the Granby water and sanitation guy who keeps on calling and reminding him he's got to connect to the city sewer line.” (77:13)
• Georgia (on the bulldozer): “Holy shit. It’s the death star of bulldozers." – (90:41)
• Karen: "He began modifying this gigantic bulldozer, adding steel and concrete panels up to a foot thick, ... basically turning this machine into a full-on weaponized tank." (90:20)
• Karen: “This is a perfect person who isolated themselves, started believing every goddamn thing that they thought, got real into money, ego, bullshit, and didn’t have a person to call up and go, hey, can I run a couple things by you? I would really love to build the largest killdozer anyone’s ever seen and attack my enemies.” (99:09)
• Ending note from Karen: “He became a lonely man. He spent too much time alone. That’s what I put it off to. He spent too much time in the hot tub alone.” (102:08, quoting Marv's friend)

Timestamps for Major Rampage Events

• Killdozer breaks out of shop: 91:15
• Destroys town hall/library: 94:40–95:00
• Attempts at propane yard: 96:15–96:43
• Conclusion & dismantling of Killdozer: 98:19–99:09

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5. Classic "Hometowns" Segment (103:04–108:28)

• Georgia invites an audience member (Katie) from Florida—amusing confusion over whether hometowns need to be local.
• Classic Colorado audience member Cassandra tells an Aspen party story: a wealthy family’s drug scandal, cover-up, and a rich kid avoiding juvie. Memorable for its slice of local scandal and the audience’s delighted reactions.
• "Ask me about my bad habits and red flags" button awarded, cementing the MFM spirit.

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Notable Live Show Energy

• Karen and Georgia’s fast-paced wit, improvisation, and encouragement of audience participation.
• Unfiltered revelations about anxiety, menopause, and backstage nerves post-hiatus.
• Hysterical running thread about the audience "hot dog," vintage fashion odors, and a persistently menacing moth.

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Final Thoughts and Memorable Quotes

• Karen: “It happened. You got it done. We all thank you. The people of Longmont thank you. The Longmont Museum. Now our business partners.” – (55:24)
• Georgia: "This is incredible. We appreciate you guys coming to our first live show in six freaking years." – (108:38)
• On podcast legacy: “We don’t think murder is funny. We think we’re funny.” – (15:30)

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Summary Table of Key Segments

| Segment | Approx. Timestamp | Key Content | |-------------------------------------------|-------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | Welcome & Live Show Banter | 03:38–09:19 | Outfits, audience, nostalgia | | Show Structure/Podcast Culture | 09:19–18:29 | Format explanation, team credits, genre reflection | | Story 1: Murder of William Dickens | 21:05–55:07 | Cold case, family drama, vintage Colorado history | | Story 2: The Killdozer Rampage | 58:31–102:19 | Small-town feud escalates to mechanized chaos | | Hometown Stories (Audience Participation) | 103:04–108:28 | Florida & Aspen party scandals, audience Q&A |

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Tone & Style

• Fast-paced, irreverent, and self-aware
• Profane, warm, and inclusive—balancing dark content with laughter and comfort
• Meta-commentary on their own show, performance, and podcasting as a medium

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If You Missed This Episode:

This live show revival navigates both vintage and modern Colorado true crime with the dynamic, hilarious chemistry that made MFM a sensation. You’ll laugh at menopause jokes and hot dog costumes, cringe at historic injustices and family betrayals, and marvel at the bizarre true tale of a man who literally bulldozed his way into infamy. All against the backdrop of a long-awaited reunion with their devoted fans—who, if you ask Georgia and Karen, are simply “the fucking best.”

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Stay Sexy and Don’t Get Murdered!

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The hit TV drama High Potential is back. Season two stars Kaitlyn Olson as Morgan, a crime solving single mom with an IQ of 160. Every week, Morgan uses her unconventional style and exceptional mind to crack LAPD's most perplexing cases. This show is the perfect blend of humor and mystery. Watch as Morgan breaks the mold without breaking a sweat. No new episodes of High potential Tuesdays at 109 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu. Goodbye. Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Join host Michael Cyril Creighton behind the scenes to talk all things Arconia with.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Steve Martin, Martin Short, Selena Gomez and more. Actors, writers and crew from season five.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Watch and listen to the new podcast series Only Murders in the Building Official.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Podcast now streaming with new episodes Tuesdays.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen wherever you get your podcasts and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don'T miss Only Murders in the Building Streaming on who? Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers terms apply.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Experience the new standard in Bras with Honey Love.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey everybody, it's Georgia and Karen here to tell you about a brand new limited series from Blanchard House with exactly right Media and iHeart podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Helen Heaven is the unbelievable true story of John and Ann Bender, a young American couple who moved to the Costa rican jungle with $600 million and a plan to their own private Eden.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But what starts as a dream spirals into a nightmare complete with abduction plots, armed guards, uncut diamonds and in the end, one dead body and a mystery that stun two countries.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Helen Heaven is the newest true crime podcast hosted by award winning journalist Becky Milligan. She investigates how one perfect couple's dream life in the jungle turned into an international scandal and ended with a murder trial that had everyone gasping.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So stick around after this episode of My favorite murder and hear the trailer for Hell in Heaven premiering Thursday, October 9th.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can follow Helen Heaven now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ra.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's up, Denver? Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Incredible work, you guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's it, right? Yeah. We're done. Bye. Oh, my God. I can't believe this is happening again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Yeah, it's been a. It's been a long time coming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's been a minute. I forgot what this feels like. It's pretty fucking awesome, you guys. Hi. How are you guys tonight? I mean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like I should say just as we start, we were. We're not going to remember our lines.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's gonna be things that you remember that we do not remember. It's been six years since we have been on stage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for right when we came to the Bananas show here in Denver.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we only wanna perform live in Denver. I guess that's what we're saying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wanna talk about your outfit, what you're wearing today?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, you're immediately moving on to outfits.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. I don't remember how to do this. Talk about your tights.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, these are tights. And we made a post about this. I just realized, I would say 11 minutes ago that I did not have any tights with me at all. So my friend Vicky and my friend Craig ran out and bought them, like, truly, at the 11th hour. It was very scary. Very mean. Very mean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We almost canceled the whole thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We almost had to. Had to just say, you know what? Everybody go home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm hot in an unhealthy way that's like, I don't think is okay, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who else here is in perimenopause, menopause or post menopause?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Hell yeah. Let's get angry over nothing. Everybody now. The air conditioning's not on in the car. Oh, my fucking God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where'd you get your outfit, Georgia?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I got my outfit today at a vintage store here called Gold Mine. Is that right? Yes. Is that right? That's right. Yeah. I went in there, I had my whole outfit planned for, like, weeks. And then I was like, I should probably just go to a vintage store real quick here. Found this fucking insane vintage dress.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It looks like it's tailored to fit you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know, it's crazy. I'm wearing lots of undergarments and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But then I steamed it and I backstage and I could definitely, like, smell the vintage.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Smell the ladies of the past.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It's a show dress, not a party dress.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What did those Ladies smell like. Just describe it to us right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a dusty, musty, mothball cigarette, perfume, martini. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our kind of lady.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice. I mean, that's an incredible vintage. Stroke of luck, I would say.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. I want to do it every city, I think. Just not bring anything. Bring jeans to wear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just be like, fuck it. And then find something in the city that fits perfectly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's perfect.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the first fucking night of our tour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you for selling it out two nights in a row. You guys are the best. Then what do we do?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I'm gonna tell them about my dress now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah, go for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It has pockets. Ladies and gentlemen, the arc.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The spin ar it right. Did you see there's someone in a hot dog. Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've got a hot dog in the front row. No, it's all you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's all you. She should be our ambassador, probably, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that would be good. Wait, are you from around here? Okay, Will you know how to pronounce street names and the kind of things that people yell. Yell at us about?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Say it again. Oh, her guess is as good as.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, hot dog off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're not having you, hot dog drive us down some weird blind alley. And then everybody on this side's furious. And everybody on this side posts on social media, we can't do it again, hot dog.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And at the end of it, she takes her hot dog costume off and hides it because she knows on the way out people are gonna like, shame I'm not the hot dog. And it's like, you're the fucking hot dog.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hot dog shame is the worst kind of hot dog shame. The worst kind of shame.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What is this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't fucking know. It feels like a fever dream.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a joy. What a joy. Thank you, thank you, thank you for being here. We're very, very excited to be here. There's been a lot of build up. Lots people are fighting in the. In the walkways. It's exciting. This is the kind of stuff. Can I just. How about we share our favorite live show memories with each other? I think we've done this on the show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, you go first because I don't remember any of them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, hot dog, you tell me. Have I told this story already on the show? My favorite live show memory is when. And it was kind of right there, but I can't. I think we were in at Washington D.C. i think it was. Was it Miami? It's the throwing up story. Oh, No, I think it was the King's Theater in Brooklyn, when literally seven minutes into the show, an usher, and very angry usher, justifiably so, had to walk down and snap out a big black Glad, Glad garbage bag to start to clean up someone's barf. Right at the beginning. Right at the beginning of the show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

However, they served this. Like, they served canned wine, right? Which is like, that's. And then some kind of cocktail that, like, surely made everyone shit faced immediately.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it was like a Karen and Georgia Long island iced tea type of situation that people got very excited about. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we didn't technically make her throw up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We didn't make her, but we were a big part of it. And that's what the legacy of this podcast will be when we finally wrap this motherfucker up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, what? This is my favorite murder of the podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That person over there forgot to clap. And then when I looked at them, they were like, oh, that's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's clap.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's kind of part of the show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hard with podcasts to, like, hearing us in your head, like you're hallucinating a little bit, arguing about the stuff we're getting wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I thought you were the other one and she was you this whole time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, there's that. That's a big piece of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Has anyone been to a show before? A live show? Okay, great. We're going to rely on you to tell us how this goes. Thank you. Could we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it time to sit down? Should we do. All right, let's do this. Look at this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. How madman are we?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is like an article. Promo code murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I really needed to sit down because I need to demurely grab the tissue I tucked into my. There we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There it is. Where'd you have that? Where was that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Georgia up in the carriage undercarriage in her Kleenex undercarriage.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sponsored by Kleenex.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, man. I really thought I'd get over this by now, this fucking tissue thing, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think it's a great personality.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Traitor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's one of your foremost personality traits.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's a martini dusty mothball tissue girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's me. What if you were the ghost of the woman who owned that dress before?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love that. For me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Magical.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. And then what do we do?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah. We don't really want you to yell at us. Remember, I'm the bitchy one. That's right, that's right. I was a big bitch back before, it was trendy. Remember that? I was all alone with it. Now we're all here, 20, 25.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone's a bitch now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just cutting it up all over the place. As is our right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, enough is enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Since the last time we saw you, our rights have been taken away. Our bodily autonomy has been taken away. And I think by the end of this tour, we should figure out what to do about that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the meantime, we're just going to have a fun podcast. How about that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I forgot to take a beta blocker. I just remembered, not only that, I drank a fucking Red Bull, so. Oh, this is gonna be fun for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the poor man's speedball right there. Yeah, girl. Can you check in about how it feels to be up and down at the same time?

[Georgia Hardstark]

My skin is tingling. Yes, for sure. And, yeah, I'm hot again in a weird, like, feel my. You can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah. I'll feel your neck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Feel that? Very hot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's kind of a George Foreman grill heat right there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And not even that cool. It's like, ugh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you want to tell them? The people who haven't been here before or the drag alongs, like, the rules of the show?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We know you're out there, you poor, poor people that don't listen to this podcast, but had to come anyway. Tonight, we call you drag alongs. We personally apologize. We do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We understand. You're a great friend. You're a very good friend or sister or whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's the thing. If you're going to use your camera, you can't have the flash on grandma.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Check your. Check your stats there before you throw the camera up and then put a big light in our fucking face. Please don't get that usher angrier at us than he already is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hell, yeah. You made the fucking usher or security guard laugh. That's a win for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's all we need.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's the point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's all we're looking for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because they're like, what the fuck is this show tonight like? And why do I have to work it? Yeah. These two weird chicks with a rug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look, it's this thing called podcasting. They started it. Marc Maron started it in 2011, and it's gone since. There.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That wasn't real. They're like, she's doing the history of podcasts. Old man Marin started it way back when.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What do we say?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we say this is a comedy true crime podcast, which is kind of hard for some people who don't like comedy, true crime or podcast, to understand which we understand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We get it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We don't think murder is funny. We think we're funny. And finally, there might be other lines, but I can't remember. If you don't like it, you can get the fuck out, but we don't want you to. What else should we say?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What else is there to say?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, wait, just really quick, because we're back at a live show. It does feel like a kind of a monumental event.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you going to propose to me? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Give me that big ring right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Big fucking ring. I'm Taylor Swift, bitch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just wanted to give a shout out to Stephen. He's not dead, but he's also not here. He's totally fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's fine. He's still our friend. He hasn't cut us out of his will or life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. He actually recently sent me a picture of a sinkhole, and then it was his friend that did it. And then they went and put one of our T shirts. It was a here's the thing. T shirt. And they just put it right at the edge of the sinkhole. And when I looked at the picture, you know, sometimes you look at your phone, you see the picture before you see who sent it or what the hell's going on. And I was just like, wait, what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someone threatening me?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, sinkholes have merch now and they're ripping off our merch. It's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Singles have merch. Hell, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I really quick, just one technical thing. Can we hear ourselves on the monitor just a hint more?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't hear a word she's saying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When she can't hear each other at all. Just a little more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just laughing a little more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Us. This is where the show gets good because we can actually hear each other talking. I watch this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sure it's funny, but what if it was sad and I just laughed hysterically at it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We look out and hot dog is sobbing just like, no, it's supposed to be funny. How's this? This is better.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So this tour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. This tour is really hard because we've almost done 500 fucking episodes of this podcast. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Most people quit at 63. Just a quick reminder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They should. So I think finding SO stories that we haven't done in the city or the state, it's okay if it's the state. Don't boo. It's hard, right? Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. We have to dig.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Luckily we have our researchers Marin and Ali, who bust their asses for us. Badass do amazing work. Our producer Molly Smith who came on yes, you can totally applaud Molly Smith. Amazing. Basically in two weeks became the producer of this podcast. So we love her. She makes it work, as do we could be naming lots of people that work at ERM right now, but I'm just thinking of the people that literally got us to these seats right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did we win an award? We have to like thank everyone now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And my mother.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here from Mint Mobile.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now. I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for a three month plan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of network's busy taxes and fees extra see mintmobile.com.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Youm know that fantasy where you run into your ex while looking impossibly cute and wildly unbothered? Hill House makes the perfect dress for that moment. Or if you're just running errands. Hill House Home is the brand behind the viral nap dress. Known for its signature smocking, ultra flattering fit and comfort that makes it a favorite for just about everyone. Celebrities like Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, Anne Hathaway and Mindy Kaling have all been spotted in Hill House. These dresses are the definition of versatile, perfect for running errands in the morning and stylish enough for dinner or a party that night. And it's not all they carry. They started with bedding back in 2016 and now you'll find bathrobes, pajamas, children's clothes and maternity, all with the cutest prints. And it's so true. The hardest time picking out one nap dress because the prints are so dreamy and beautiful. But now that I have it, I'm going to wear it all day, every day. I'm going to throw on my leather jacket at night and look like a total badass. Cowboy boots or cute heels. Whatever it is, this nap dress can make it look classy. You look like that classy lady you see at the airport. Hill House makes fun fashion that makes you Feel good. Get 15% off your first order of $100 or more at Hill House Home with code MURDER15 that's murder. 15 for 15% [e-mail]. goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford, and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty. When Dr. Sabah and I decided to do a skincare line together, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty. Which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a. A reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're going to get results, and then you just go out and live your life. Meaningful beauty Confidence is beautiful. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, should we start or.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You should start.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You go first. I'm first this time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. It's confusing because we're going by stories. Who goes first, not by, like, who's supposed to actually go first. So I'm sure we'll get it wrong one day and. Right. Yeah. As we tend to do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's kind of our style.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, well, I'm gonna do a story tonight. It's technically one of Colorado's oldest cold cases. You guys know I love cold cases, even though it was probably solved. But I'm gonna need you, because I have a theory, too, and I think I'm right, always.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll figure out a way to argue with you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you'll like it. So, okay. In the early 1900s, a prominent businessman was killed, leading to a winding investigation, several scapegoats, and ultimately, an escape from justice. This is the story of the murder of William Dickens. Is anyone related to him here? You guys. Hey, guys. We're in Longmont, Colorado. Longmont. He's like one of your founders, like your founding father, so you should know this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he founded it for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. So the sources used in today's episode are. Episode story. I always do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A WordPress essay titled Mysterious Death of William H. Dickens by Carol Turner. And an article from the Colorado Culture magazine called the oldest unsolved murder in Boulder was probably solved a century ago by Erica Sims. The other sources in our show notes. So look them up right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if you did the whole story in that voice?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You did it. Got it. Like, just channel the woman who wore this dress before she just light up a sink. Oh, my God. What else do I have in my Spanx, do you think? Just start pulling shit, Capris. Okay. This is scary. I can't believe we're doing this. I mean, I'm going first, and I'm terrified.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you're really leading. Your leading the way here. Yeah, you got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't get it twisted. We seem fucking cool and collected, but we are. I am not. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I know. Speak for yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen took the beta blocker, not me. Jealous. Okay, thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That one person supports you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mom. Janet, is that you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Janet's here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so it's the night of 11-30-19. Holy shit. This is fucking weird. I'm not kidding you. 1914. Carrie just texted me and told me that's when this ring is from. 1914.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. That's spooky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't do it on purpose. No. Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Admit it now, if you did, everyone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No one thinks it's as crazy as I do, right? That's fucking bananas. There's a ghost. There's a ghost.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My diamonds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My diamonds are haunted by this fucking story. Stop it. Okay. November 30, 1914. A 71 year old businessman named William Dickens and his wife Ida are relaxing. They're reading in the library of their home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Me too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In Longmount, Colorado. It's a little bit north of Boulder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love Boulder. It's got this big Boulder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you see the moth? Well, there's a little moth, but it's good luck, right? Moths are good luck. So don't kill it. I see it. Okay, stop. About 8pm they're chilling in their library, as rich people do, when a bullet pierces the library window and hits William in the back. It passes all the way through him, which is not good, and grazes Ida's cheek and then lands in the wall. Ida's injury is minor and she jumps to her husband's aid. But tragically she watches as he passes away within 10 minutes of being shot. Wow. The drag alongs are like. This was not sold to me as I thought it would be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like, I fought with you in the car all the way over here just for this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so let's back up a little bit as we like to do and talk about the Dickens family. William Henry Dickens is born. This dude born on May 25, 1843 on a ship in the Atlantic Ocean. Sounds fucking horrible. For her. For the mother.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. For real, right? Yeah. It's just like the go for the purser there to help. Boiling water or something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love Boat reference. No one. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's how your parents met. It is, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're cruise line people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Congratulations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So his parents moved. Are moving the family from England by way of Quebec. When Mary gives birth to William it's probably a nightmare on board the ship.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can assume also being having a baby in international waters. Oh, where's that baby from?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a great question. The ocean everywhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Little Mermaid movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Does he get to go back to the ocean anytime he wants because he's a citizen?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just tugs right in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I get to live here now, like I want to do in Ireland. Wouldn't that be great? But I can't. Okay. Da, da, da, da. The family are all distant relatives of that. You guessed it. English author Charles Dickens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. I knew that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Your favorite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For real.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Because that's their last name. Dickens. Remember?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Which indicates being related to someone. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Always.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is also. Ali's probably like, Georgia probably didn't remember any of this because she told me some of the names that. Charles Dickens of his books. Oh, nice. So. But I know Ali. Let's hear him know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's hear him so we can finally cheer for Charles Dickens the way we've always wanted to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oliver Twist.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great Expectations, my favorite. And a Christmas Herald. Oh, I love the Muppet one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've read that one. Soon after arriving in Quebec, the family then moves to Wisconsin. And William's father.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cheese heads in the crowd.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The father and sisters pass away as they're want to do back then. Like, everyone just gets a cold and dies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so beautiful. You know what they did a lot? They coughed into, like, a kerchief and died a lot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh. Flemmy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's right. So his mother, Mary, remarries a man named Alonzo Nelson Allen. They remain in Wisconsin until William is 16. But they need to make more money. So he and his stepfather moved to Boulder. So they must have got along a little bit. Right? And they go for. They go mine for gold in what would be known as the Colorado Gold Rush. So congratulations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys did amazing during that period of time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Incredible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So much gold.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. William and Alonzo aren't very good miners, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You don't hear these stories that often. The shitty mining stories. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But they're smart, though. Instead, they leave Boulder. They build a cabin near where St. Vrain is. St. Vrain Creek and Left Hand Creek cross in an area that soon becomes Longmount, Colorado.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I just say that it was when you said they were bad miners then I immediately pictured two people with super long skinny arms. They just can't get that pickaxe going at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, the pickaxe. I was thinking of the sieve, you know, oh, they can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. They can't sift for gold.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sieve. Sift. Yeah. No. Pan, Pan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pan, ladies and gentlemen, pan. We got it. We still got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We are miners. Okay? So this is what they do. They build a farm together. And as more and more people start moving into the area. Because those are the people who made the long lasting money. The ones who took advantage of the gold rush people by opening businesses to sell them shit. Yeah, right. It's called. What's it called?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Capitalism.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're welcome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's absolutely gonna say communism. Thank you for that. Okay, so they. What did they do then? They. Farming. Business grows in 1863.

[Karen Kilgariff]

William, is this a dress rehearsal?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I swear to God, I've been studying this because I've been so nervous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't literally, I can't hold a thought in my mind. I'm just like, we're doing it. It's happening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This isn't a dress rehearsal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so surreal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. I have notes and I'm still warm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, sorry. Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you're good. No, you're right. You're totally right to question me. Okay. So then the mom and their kids all show up and because his family home is situated along a prominent stagecoach route connecting Wyoming to Denver, the Cherokee Trail. I don't know why I'm pointing at you. I'm pointing at you. Thank you. Mary and Alonzo set up a tavern and an inn. And that goes right really well. This family was also. They become like fixtures in their community after having been struggling before. And at age 26. Oh, I have a photo of him. He serves in the Colorado Calvary. And he gets out. And here is a photo of William Dickens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What? What? What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay. All right then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is from the Longmont Museum, by the way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is on loan from the Longmont Museum. We gotta get it back to. To them by midnight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like at first you're like, what? And then you're like, I don't know. Yeah, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, like you see this guy in a tavern in Long Martin Longmont, whatever it is, like, hello, sir.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There can't be a lot of eligible bachelors back then in general, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I doubt it. Also, doesn't it look like he made that three piece suit out of a cow 25 minutes before he took this picture? I mean, you can almost see the hair on that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they didn't have lint rollers back then. Oh, you mean the cow hair. I get it. That's Funny. Not cat hair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nope.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cow hair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, we never know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, you don't ever know. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You don't never know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You don't ever know. And I refuse to accept it. Okay, so he takes the family profits and builds this place called Independence hall, which is a community center and drugstore. So, like, they just get rich selling people shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you think it's still there?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't. Is it for real? Do they sell ice cream?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do not lie about Independence hall right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tavern. The tavern's still there. Fuck. Party after after party is what I meant to say.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, just drive three and a half hours to Longmont and get up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I don't know what you're yelling and I don't care.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, no, we literally can't hear.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So nervous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We can't hear each other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Of course we can't hear when you yell. Even in like a good spirit, like happy way. It makes us think you're mad and it scares me. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're very, very damaged people. You should know that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Jesus. 69. Within the next four years, he acquires a 120 acre plot of land he uses to expand the farm cattle like that cow outfit. And so now he's making an honest living and he's ready to settle down. He marries the woman from the beginning of the story, Ida Kite Lee. Oh, here's a picture of her. Yeah. Did pretty good, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. She looks like many of the tiktokers I watch what she's about to teach me how to use setting spray correctly. Come on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure is. Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you think they. I mean, they made people pose all serious like that for pictures, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because you can't. You have to sit there for three minutes. And so smiling for three minutes is kind of hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But what if, like deep down she was like, yeah, yes, let's go get pictures taken? I know. I always think that she's the party girl of Longmont.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She might be so fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one will ever know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So sad. Anyway, sorry for her. So they have five children. They really liked each other.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or it was cold that winter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he adds more and more business ventures to his plate. In 1881, he builds the Dickens Opera House on Main Street. I don't want to keep referring to pictures. Do you know it? There is a picture of it, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck. Yeah. Does it still look like that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's still a bunch of Teslas everywhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So many potential opera houses that we could be looking at right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, pick one, you know, there. That I Think. I think it's that one. No, on the right there's a bunch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of do not do hot dog's job because they're not having it. Is it the one on the right? Once again, hot dog throws up her hand. It's gorgeous.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's cute. Yeah, right. I'm sure there's just meter after meter. Parking meter, you know, that's just what happens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the horse having to put the coins in with their big teeth, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's cute. So they have kids. Then in 1891, he finds the farmer. He founds. Founds, not finds. It's not a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Farmers National Bank. And soon after, he co founds the Milling and Elevator company. What? How do those go together? What range?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This man has money. Elevators.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Milling, booze. What's milling?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, making stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, someone yell hookers from the back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sugar? Thank you, sugar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, I don't know. That was me then. That was on me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, hey, guess what it says. The only flour mill large enough to complete. Just mere words away. I have read this before. I swear to God, I'm fucking sweating.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was having a thing backstage where my. It felt like my eyes weren't taking in information anymore. Like they were sitting on things, but like I didn't know what it meant or I was like, this is an interesting way to be. Yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's anxiety. Is it? I think so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And anyways, he maintains his wealth and social status as a successful businessman and philanthropist into his early 70s, watching his children grow into adults. He enjoys his retirement with his wife Ida, until, of course, the night of November 30, 1914.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep, they're on board now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they love it. And he gets shot. As I said back at the crime scene, investigators find that bullet was shot with what would have come to be a fair. What would have been a very distinctive, high powered rifle. Which you know all about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, ask me anything on Reddit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because he's such a prominent figure in the Long Monk community, the press picks up the story of his murder. It seems that he had done so much good while he was alive that it was hard for people to believe that he had an enemy capable of killing him. But he can make a lot of enemies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's the banker, right? Don't people hate bankers? Huge banking area.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Group of people. Oh, what the. Karen, we've been listening to you since day one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she just starts reading it to herself. Anyway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my winkle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just tell about the good part.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, okay. So the Sheriff Sanford Buster Comes up with some theories. First, they set their sights on a man named M. Swallow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Spell it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Swallow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you need me to spell that for you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. You don't usually work blue, but I know M as in just the letter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I think that Ali was like, oh, sometimes old timey newspapers just refer to men by their first initial. So we're going up. We're going with M. Because we couldn't find any other name. Let's call him. What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maurice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maurice Swallow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

People, are you guessing or do you actually know? Is he your uncle?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Your great uncle?

[Karen Kilgariff]

All these citizens that are just like, please get our history correct.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he had an argument with him, but he's cleared. And then. So he has no enemies. And so Sheriff Buster and his team consider the possibility of someone, maybe who wants revenge on him. Because it turns out he wasn't the best. I guess when he served in the Colorado third Calvary back in the 1860s, he participated in the Sand Creek Massacre. Yep. You did that one to me. Yeah, that was awful. You did. You covered that one, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did I? How would I fucking know?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't listen to this show. That was me doing an impression of my sister.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was great. So they were thinking that maybe people were, like, going to plot revenge against him, but it had been so long. And then. Let's see. I'm going to skip this, that, that, that and that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just read it. People like it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're fine. Okay. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is actually. This is really interesting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're not the opening act, and they want us out of here. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You got this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks, guys. Thank you. But in 1870, a full 44 years before the murder, there was one other event that sucked that could point to someone who would want revenge against William Dickens. That year, a man named Billy Dubois.

[Karen Kilgariff]

French.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Killed an innocent man. And a posse of vigilantes, which included William Dickens, went after Billy Dubois. And they tried to arrest him, but it led to a shootout. Billy goes down in the fight, and he swears to William that one day he will have his revenge. Right. Always a bad thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'd suspect that guy for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. However. Oh, no. He's dead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He won't have his revenge, but maybe his brother will. Oh, you know how brothers are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I actually don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You don't? They fucking suck. They're real dicks. They steal your shit and hide it from you. It's annoying, but it had been so long. And this brother is, like, working as the clerk of a. Let's see. Larimer county and. Is that you guys? He's got no criminal record. It sounds like he's just, like, let his brother's memory live on in a positive way instead of seeking revenge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he's out. Okay. And then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, really quick. It's Larimer County.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, thank you. Yeah, what is it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They actually, in a very organized way, yelled that back at us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wasn't listening to that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't want to deny it because it was great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I appreciate it. Yeah, no, you're totally right. I see it here now, clear as day. Yeah. Yeah, that was what I was meant to say. So, okay, so he's out. He's out. Investigators find themselves back at square one. But they get a new lead when a clerk at a store out of Denver. It's you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Reports no one clouds for Denver. They're like, really from here?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Street lights here are real rough, aren't they? Like, you stop at every street light, every red light. My God, stop it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You mean the street lights work here? They make you stop and then they ask you to go. It's ridiculous here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was mean about the street lights. I didn't mean it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you were. Okay, you were correct. So someone in Denver reports the purchase of a high powered rifle and silencer just one month before the murder. They can trace these things back then, and they care. And it's the same type of gun that was used in the shooting, which was a rare gun. And the person who purchased this weapon is none other than William's own son, Rienzi. Dickens. You're surprised? That surprises you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Heartbreaking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

34 years old.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, spoiled.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nepo Baby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tavern. Baby. You know how they are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The worst kind of. Filled with pretzels and ego.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he's arrested on December 3, 1914, just minutes after his father's funeral. Which had to be a fucking scene. Right? Like, that's kind of fucked up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is. Those cops were like, that's revenge from cops.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. Like, you better be sure you got the guy if you're gonna, like, storm a funeral. Yeah, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

One would hope.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When Sheriff Buster asked if he ever purchased the gun and silencer, Rienzi swears he didn't. But then the authorities search his home and find the rifle. And silence her. Where'd he do that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where'd he put it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. Well, it's dismantled into several pieces and hidden throughout his own home?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which I bet houses back then didn't have A lot of hiding places. You know, it's not like today, there's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

One big vase that you just had to put everything in there, right? Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Police also dig through a pile of ash in. In the alley behind his house, looking for evidence because one witness claimed to have seen him frantically digging there the morning of his father's funeral. Which is a weird. Like, maybe that's his religious. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Try second one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't want to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wasn't hip to begin with.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. But thank you for the opportunity. In the ash, they find the cartridge that held the bullet that killed William. Like, the bullet? Not the same one. So he is like, all right, you got me. I did buy the gun, but I insisted. He was just shooting at a fence post for fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure. Toward his father's library, right? Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The fence post with the library behind it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So fun. And so he has an alibi, though. He was home on the night of the murder with his kids, but his wife was out the movies. So there's no witnesses to actually place him there that night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was movies back then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A picture? I don't know. That's a great fucking question.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What fucking movie was it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

There were pictures. It wasn't a talkie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kramer versus Kramer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Definitely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was just that train coming at him over and over. She was there forever, screaming, screaming their heads off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So his alibi isn't good enough to prove. And police discover a potential motive, of course, because it's. Guess what it is, right? Money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, money, money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. What were you gonna guess?

[Karen Kilgariff]

My mind was completely blank. Literally. Your finger went like that. And I was like, oh, I'm supposed to say something right now. I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I hate when you do that. So I don't know why I just did that to you. I'm sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I'll get my revenge during my story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck. Okay. What'd you do? This. So it turns out he's got a lot of debt. Records indicate that Ramsey owes somewhere between 35 to $40,000 in debt. Guess how much that is today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we're talking 1914.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

35 to 40. God, I'm bad at this. I have to admit, after nine and a half years of doing this podcast, I'm so bad at this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You got it right once.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let me just try it out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. Don't help me. It's $350,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I really wanted you to get this because everyone would have. You're right. A million dollars. All right. Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's an example of what it Feels like to be a Nepo baby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, you have another chance. Because his father's worth, estimated net worth is, is about $300,000, which in today's money, 20 million, 9.5 million. Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've never been a math person, that's for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Me neither. That's why we have a podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yay. So he was gonna, of course, inherit some of that. Of course. And so. But he's like, but I swear to God, I didn't kill my dad. Probably his mom and siblings, they all have his back. They don't think he did it. And later, the same month. Later in the same month of his arrest. Oh, my God. We haven't done this in so long. December 1914.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You have to remember, inflect up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. And come back home. He's arraigned, pleads not guilty. He's released on $37,000 bond, which I don't know how much is 800,000 years. Yes. It has to. So they hire a whole team of private investigators to track down the real killer and get him, you know, out of here. And they find one suspect worth considering. It's a rancher named John Ensley. Everyone's related to these people. I bet they just don't know every.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Single one of these people. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I have a cousin. I don't know in the audience. I just remembered. That's what he said. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you don't know your own cousin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's like second cousin. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So kind of a stranger.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What do you think he thinks of you right now?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. But his wife likes me, so that's okay. That's good. I think he's a drag along. And I appreciate you, Steven. Okay. He used to work for William, but people close to him says he always resented William. He was spotted drinking at a Longmont bar on the night of William's murder. And a bottle of this liquor that he drinks was found nearby outside of the Dickens home. So that's not great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shouldn't have left that behind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? Right. But he was probably drunk off it. It's enough for the police to question Ensley, but he tells them something interesting that unravels the private detective's story. According to Ensley, most of the group of private investigators, they all got him shit faced, basically. And one of them. Yeah. Pretended to be a priest who tried to trick him into confessing. So a whole scam. What do you think? Yay or nay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's like 1914, cops so they're probably literally beating the shit out of him. And then they're like, okay, well, we'll give you a moment to bleed and walk outside. And then one of them, like, turns their shirt around and is like, hey, I'm also gonna beat you up. But you'll tell me, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's. But I love God. So you tell me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Peace up to the big one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. And then the whole thing just was a big setup to try and frame him. And so with no hard evidence against Ensley, police believe him and go back to the sun. So his trial for the murder of his father begins April 24, 1915. And Judge Neil F. Graham, your favorite, presides over the case. And they come in hot and drop a bombshell. He claims he's received a confession letter in the mail from the actual killer. Oh, you want me to read it to you? He reads it in court.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please do. And please do it in a classic Colorado accent.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, okay. Dear sir, please don't let them convict Ramsay Dickens. Do I have it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pretty dead on, I think. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Please don't let them convict him. I am the murderer. I'd kill any man who would do me the way old Blank blank did. I shot him in the window with a rifle, which afterward, it's just like admitting to it in such a ridiculous way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Read the letter. Read the letter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I shot him through the window with a rifle, which I afterward buried in Loveland. For God's sake, don't let them convict an innocent man. Someday they will be sorry I did it because he had it coming. Signed X. So real bullshitty convenience.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Real bullshitty. Yeah, it's the. For God's sake that pushed it over the edge, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, please. Oh, please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Easy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm fine killing a dude, but I don't want anyone to go to prison for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what I mean?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, yeah, I don't know about that. The district attorney is like, bullshit calls bullshit. And so after about a month of going back and forth and in court, Judge Graham sends the jury off to deliberate. And he gives them an option to either find Rienzi guilty of first degree murder or guilty of second degree murder or not guilty, and they find him guilty of second degree murder. His wife faints when in the courtroom when she finds out, which is dramatic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very old fashioned.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, they fainted a lot back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They loved fucking feigning back then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They had, like, couches, literal couches for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I hear it was the corsets, but.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That might just be a Rumor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. He gets a retrial, and he gets out on $40,000 bail and 237,000. Yes, man, you're fucking killing it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pretty much every single one is, right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it looks like his mother pays the bill, you know, as. And then they. In the course of the next trial, they find a weapon specialist who's like, maybe it wasn't the gun, the murder weapon that was hidden all over his house. Maybe it wasn't. Could it not have been? Maybe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So there's so many things in this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

World, right, that one of them could be this. And so he. Okay, so now here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just read the letter again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Their application for retrial is denied, and he's given a sentence of 18 to 27 years imprisonment for the murder of his father. But he continues to appeal his guilty verdict. And In October of 1919, the Colorado Supreme Court orders a new trial on the grounds that the second degree premeditated murder charge was invalid because whoever did it, was it, like, premeditated it. You guys know how true crime works. So only the only valid verdict would have been first degree or not guilty. So technicality, you're out. Which is, you know, there for people who aren't guilty. You know, I mean, he's released from prison while he awaits a second trial, and he relocates to Long Beach, California, for some reason, I don't know, we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Went to the Rocky Stadium for the game last night. It was. That's right. So I should have talked about that at the time as like, an anecdotal thing to warm everybody up and win people over, but I forgot it was so gorgeous and cool, and the Giants won, so I was excited, but it was cool. Sorry. Don't be mad. Just don't. Let's not turn it into a sports thing. Like, you always have to just, like, let us do our show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She has one team. That's it. That she wants to win.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's all I ask.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let her have it. And in October 1921, he returns to Colorado for a second trial. Couple weeks, focuses on that was the gun and the bullet the same? And they paid a lot of people a lot of money to say maybe it wasn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's so many things in this world.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's so many things in this world. Yeah. And in the end, about two weeks after two weeks of trial, he's found not guilty though time. So after receiving his not guilty verdict in 1921, he heads. Wait, there's been other photos, and I forgot them. Is there another photo? Look yeah. So that's him, right? That's right before he dies. Probably William Dickens. No, Probably. He looks kind of young. It's the same picture with a fake goatee.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's wearing a fake beard. And he finally got that lint roller he was dreaming of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, and then I think there's a photo of his house for some reason, if you feel like seeing it. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Third Avenue. The place to be in Longmont.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Do you guys know it? You love it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I used to go trick or treating there as a child.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. And I think that's it. So. Yeah, that's the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stop looking over there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So look away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So stop it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so he lives in Long beach the rest of his life, passes away in 1961. And what if. Okay, here is my. So they never really caught. It's a cold case. Because they never actually caught the murder, even though everyone thinks that they did it was the son. What if he had an insurance policy taken out on himself? Hear me out. It's in a book. That I won't spoil for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he has himself killed. Yeah. This is terrible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why would he have himself killed?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because then his wife can get the insurance money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So do you think he had suicidal ideation? He was like, let's get five other people in on this plan and make some cash. Wasn't he already rich? Yeah. Shit. But you know what? That's what greed is like. You know what I mean? It's never enough. It's never enough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell it to the hot dog. That's why I'm a podcaster and not a detective. That's true. Among other things. Like I didn't go to college.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look, we're doing our best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As for his murder, the case technically remains cold. Though most people believe Ramsay was guilty. But he was able to cast enough doubt with enough money to win his freedom. And he maintained his innocence to the end, leaving the truth about his father's death a mystery. And that is the story of the murder of William Dickens. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Thank you. It happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You got it done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We all thank you. The people of Longmont. Thank you. Right. The Longmont Museum. Now our business partners.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's incredible opportunity.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of meaningful beauty. When Dr. Sabah and I decided to do a skincare line together, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty. Which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're going to get results and then you just go out and live your life. Meaningful Beauty Confidence is beautiful. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com when you're in HR.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Are you ready for my story?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mm. I'm gonna tell one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now. You guys know that we don't know ever know each other's stories, which we were talking about. How annoying that must be for everyone who has to work on the show because we have to like take separate calls. So I don't know this what she's gonna do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, so I'll tell you right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wish you would.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All these people in the audience are like, we've been listening to this bullshit for nine years. We know you don't know, but it's fun. It's fun to talk about. Guys, tonight I'm going to tell you a story that takes place in one of your beautiful, charming little scenic towns in the Rockies here in Colorado. It's one of those towns that has great hiking, skiing, fishing and what one website describes as quote, strong old west vibes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love those things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Everyone's got kind of a weird janky hat on. The town has around 2,000 people. It's a tight knit community. It's been described as sleepy, cozy and laid back. Me too. Right? That's you all over. You're so tight knit. But all of that changed on the afternoon of June 4, 2004, when a man came roaring down the street of this quiet little town in a customized bulldozer with the intent of leveling everything in his path. The man's name was Marv Heemeyer and the town was called Granby. This is the story of the killdozer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm pretty sure Mary and found this one. And I was like, you have done me a great service here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Truly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This story is nuts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, this is a great you story too. Like, I feel like this one was made for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's really. There's a lot of heroes and anti heroes in this story and then there's one big ass bulldozer. And that's all I need really. I'm like a three year old boy in that way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just want.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just want to look at big bulldozers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bulldozers and sinkholes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sinkholes and bulldozers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fire trucks, you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Did you say your sources for yours?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, great. I wasn't listening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You even commented on it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did I?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was that tonight?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the main sources that Marin you used for this story Today are the book the True Story of the Colorado Bulldozer Rampage by author Patrick Brower and a 2020 documentary called Tread. Okay, so we'll just talk about Marv first, so you learn a little background. Marv Heemeyer is born in 1951 in South Dakota. Are you fucking serious? Are you serious? Serious. Did you drive?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. They drove.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How long is the road trip?

[Georgia Hardstark]

11. 7.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Someone goes in a bulldozer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Classic. That's good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like the straight story, but with a bulldozer from South Dakota. How long does it take to get here? Driving?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Six hours.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you very much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All the rest of the shit you're saying, we can't hear. And we'll talk about it later.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

South Dakota.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like I've never met a person from South Dakota.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you haven't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is. What's one of your names? Carrie Vanaras.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mary. Mary. Mary, Mary. Mary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mary Smith. Nice to meet you, Mary. Now I've.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now you know someone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dakota. Yeah. Okay. But Marv's family comes to Colorado in the mid. No, sorry. Marv himself comes to Colorado in the mid-1970s. He's stationed at the now defunct Lowry Air Force Base right here in Denver. Thank you for your service. And then when Marv leaves the Air Force, he stays in Denver to pursue his newest passion. Just give a guess.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Is this you pointing at me to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guess a little bit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bulldozers? No. Race car driving.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Snowmobiling.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Damn it. I just think that's kind of close, though. Like, I thought it's like a vehicle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, and it's also one of those vehicles with the chainy things, not actual wheels.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, so I'm going to take that as a win.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think it's a huge win.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I need it also.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just think it's funny when I was looking at this, where it's like the words passion and snowmobiling are quite a combination.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So snowmobiling becomes a huge part of his life. He takes weekly trips out to rugged areas with his friends so they can ride their snowmobiles and hoot and holler and whatnot. They snowmobile so hard together that eventually Marv decides to go into an auto repair business with one of those friends, a man named John. So they open up a shop in Boulder, and Marv becomes known as a virtuoso when it comes to welding and repairing mufflers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kind of hot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Mozart of mufflers. Did you say kind of hot?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I don't know why welding to me is just like one of those, like tough person things. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's show it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we see? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you saw that while you were s. Scrolling, whatever the apps, what would you do?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Push left. What's the thing you do?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The answer is yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Does his. Does his hat say Silver Bullet? Oh, does it? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell yeah. He got that for free.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or with like points from the tabs. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He sent away for that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So one of Marv's friends will later tell the AP that, quote, he could change a muffler by himself in 20 minutes. No wasted motion. He knew what he was doing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Be nice to have friends that talked about you like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah. True appreciation of your skill, especially of mufflers. She's great. Karen's great at mufflers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's so good at mufflers. No wasted motions. It's the thing I'm sick of when I go get my car fitted and they're like, it's like, come on, 20 minute oil change, for fuck's sake. So at some point, Marv and John, they split off and do their own things. Marv opens a different shop on his own and that does very well. He's also made a bunch of money investing in real estate. So he's doing good. And then in the early 90s, he moves to Grand Lake, Colorado. It's just this huge lake, I don't know, grand. And he does it for the snowmobiling. That's right. And then this is when he hears that his old friend and business partner John is thinking of expanding his business toward the Rocky Mountains. And that news gets Marv's wheels turning because he had recently come across a vacant 2 acre lot in Granby near his current home in Grand Lake. That lot was previously owned by a concrete business that changed hands before that business failed and went bust. So sometimes Maren uses these phrases like she'll be like. And everything went bust. And I'm like, I don't really talk like that, but I guess I missed that one. So that piece of property has been bank owned for three years. And when married sees it, he sees it as the perfect place for an auto repair shop. It's got a two bay garage. It has lots of storage space, beautiful lighting, a great room in the front, an office. And it's perfectly located at the intersection of two highways.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So yeah, it's where you like break down. Here you go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tow it right over here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The best thing about it though is the price. Price the property is appraised at around a hundred thousand dollars, but the starting bid is $20,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So. Right, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Marv's like, I'm gonna go to that auction. I'm gonna kick some ass. Do you want to guess how much? $20,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

70S.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, it's a 94. That's the last 92.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. The last thing I heard was 70s. Okay. Okay. 20,000 in the 90s today would be 85,000.

[Karen Kilgariff]

46,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That doesn't sound like enough shit. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Reporter Patrick Brower says, quote, marv hoped he could buy it for a song, lease it, or sell it back to Kleiner on favorable terms and add to his already fairly comfortable income stream. So the two men work out a deal where Marv agrees to buy the 2 acre Granby lot and finance it back to John for $66,000. That's still well below the appraised value, making it worthwhile to John, but a big payday for Marv as long as he can buy it close to that starting price. So it's 1992. Marv shows up at a real estate auction ready to get that property. But right as the bidding begins, he realizes that someone else wants that property, too, and it's the former mayor of Granby, a man named Gus Harris. So Mayor Harris also has a friend with him. It's the former property owner of the concrete business that used to be there. They. Right, you know what I'm about to deal with. So this man's name, Cody Dochev. And Cody sold his concrete business, Someone else bought it, and then that person went out of business, and then the bank owned it. Okay, so Cody actually made money off of that. So he's there with the mayor. And author Patrick Brower describes Cody in his book as, quote, higher. As a, quote, high energy spark plug of a man. See, when you're here at the live show, you can hear all the edits that we can't make.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The blabbing and the. And the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's hard to. Yeah, that's right. So he's basically Cody's there to egg on the old mayor and to get, you know, get him bidding and have some fun. So the auction begins. It's immediately intense. The bidding, of course, goes back and forth between Mayor Gus, then Marv, and then Gus raises, and then Marv raises, and it goes back and forth until finally Marv wins the auction with a bid of $42,000, which is about how much in today's money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

68.

[Karen Kilgariff]

95. Yeah. Should we stop doing this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, maybe that's an old fucking trope that we should put away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, just shelve it and never again guess money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe this tour is the last money guessing tour and then we end it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we were trying to think of a title for this tour. Now we finally stumbled upon the best title ever. So once that auction's over, Marv claims that Cody came over to him and starts to chew him out. He will later describe Cody as, quote, the rudest and most arrogant person. I mean, this guy is just a fucking asshole.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, Marv.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Language.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Marv also claims that he is immediately offered to sell the lot that he just bought to Cody, even though Mayor Gus is the one that was bidding on it for $66,000, which was the same price that he offered to finance it for his friend John. Cody and a handful of other people who were at the auction that day flatly deny that that exchange ever took place. But the problem is now, in this very small town of Granby, Marv Heemeyer's rubbing some locals the wrong way. And as we all know, the people, like, people of us that come from the country, that's a problem. You don't want to do that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But Marv's problems are about to get worse because not long after purchasing this property, a man named Bud Wilson from the Granby Water and Sanitation Department comes out and informs Marv that this property is not connected to the city sector septic system.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, what does that mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That means when you flush the toilet and just kind of goes out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Actually, in the country of. You think called. Wait, it's a leech field, right? Where it just. It's like, all just goes out into big empty fields.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so listen, let's not talk about shit anymore, because that's not the worst part. The worst part is it turns out that the mainline hookup for him to get connected to the city septic system is 100ft away off of his property. And it's. So it's on somebody else's property. And if that's not bad enough, the owner of that land is none other than former Mayor Gus Harris.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

His auction enemy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is like a Looney Tunes cartoon.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is a. It's getting. It's a little Coen Brothers y this story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So after the way things shook out at the auction, it is easy to assume that Gus probably wouldn't be the hugest fan of Marv. Might even be a little resentful. Of Marv's obnoxious behavior. Plus, as anyone who grew up in the country knows, the installation and upkeep for a new sewer system is pricey. And that's when Marv learns it's going to cost him upwards of $80,000 to install this. And that's, of course, twice what he just paid for the land itself. So the project is automatically way over budget from what he and John Kleiner originally agreed to be working on. So suddenly, Marv's investment property is morphing into a serious money pit, and he tries to do some damage control. He shows up at the next grand town hall meeting, and he thinks he can somehow push or reroute the negotiations away from Gus and to the city of Granby itself. And he wants. He basically wants them to handle the negotiations and the subsequent installation costs. And Marv actually tells the city board, quote, you've got to hook me up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get that on a shirt. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then there's just a bunch of shit underneath.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen's going blue. Is that blue? No, no, that's just gross.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I guess it's brown, if anything. So the Granby town board tells Marv that the city will not be holding his hand through this process and that Marv needs to get his property hooked up to the city sewer system, which means he has to work things out with Gus Harris. And as you might guess, Marv does not like this answer. And he tells the board members, in what some might say is a condescending tone, that, quote, you can't expect to grow. If this is your policy, it's extortion by the government fiat. I don't need you, you need me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Uh, oh, yeah, that's foreshadowing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then he tries to drop the mic, but it's one of those ones that connected to the podium. So he's just like, pushing it down, and then he storms out. Yes, Queen, go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Men are so dramatic. I love the stance of you're asking me to be reasonable. How can you grow if that's your policy?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe they don't want to grow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you know, maybe that's Granby. So the whole thing is taking place in a town hall meeting, on the record, in front of a bunch of people. It's not a good look for the new guy who basically just screwed up and is now begging the town for help. Marvel then inform town officials in the interim that he will be putting in a new septic tank. So Granby is fine with that. What he doesn't tell them is what he's doing is he found an old cement mixer on the property and he's just gonna bury that and use that as the cement septic tank.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The cement mixer. I guess I don't really know how septic tanks work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just a big.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If I'm being honest, it's like a suburbs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like a waiting room for your shit. Okay, it's more complicated than that, but we don't need to talk about it. And then Baron wrote, and if you think that sounds like a bad idea, that's because it is a bad idea. So Bud Wilson from the Water and Sanitation Department warns Marv he can't rely on a septic tank forever. He will need to figure out how to hook up to the city sewer line at some point. But before Marv. This is my writing. But before Marv can expel the cortisol from his system and work amicably with his neighbor, his business buddy Snowball becomes sister. John Kleiner unexpectedly finds himself involved in an EPA audit over some old oil spills.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That doesn't sound good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't worry about it. It's not a big deal. It's just personal oil spills that the EPA has to get involved with.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's personal, okay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So wouldn't you know it, John now begins backpedaling to get out of the Granby plan that he was going to do with Marv. So Marv decides that he's just going to do it himself. He's going to set up his new muffler shop. But remember, he planned to lease and finance that property to and with John. It's not happening. So Marv has to go it alone. He opens Mountain View mufflers. Everybody loves it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he services just about everybody in town. And he actually does. Does really well. So things start looking up and even better because he does such great work at the muffler shop. He basically starts doing damage control with the locals. He even makes some friends. People are like, oh, this guy's really good. And they get to know him as a person and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he doesn't waste a movement or whatever it was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. No wasted movement.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like, look at the clean lines of this guy and his muffler work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look at him go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like a ballerina with the muffler. Locals think that Marv is nice, he's friendly, he's making friends. Things are starting to go smoothly and Marv is really happy about his transplant to this mountain community. And then he's making good money and what is he doing with that money?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Snowmobiling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I knew it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This time, it's the dream life. He's thriving. But there is one problem. For Marvin, it's Bud Wilson, the Granby water and sanitation guy who keeps on calling and reminding him he's got to connect to the city sewer line.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. How's he. Okay. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it's that kind of thing where, like, you know how some of us get very good at pushing off other people to not do the thing that they just don't feel like doing. Well, he does this for five years.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Epic procrastination. Just masterful. No wasted movement in that. So now it's 1997. Marv's in his mid-40s. He has been running this muffler business for five years. And that is when the Dochev family approaches him, asking if they can buy the property. So this is Cody Dochev's family. They owned the concrete plant. Plant before. And he was the. Cody was the spark plug of a man. And the family want. Basically wants to start the concrete plant on that property again. But Marv doesn't like Cody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He. God, he doesn't like a lot of people. He's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think he's sensitive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe a little emotional. Like, he's, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Sometimes you got to look at yourself, though, if you like not getting along with a lot of people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's very true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, saying that to me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Saying that to you. Surprisingly, Marv says he is not opposed to selling to the Docevs. In fact, he gets the lot appraised, and he lets them know the property is now worth $270,000. But when the Docevs agree to that price, Marv ups the price to $375,000. And then before claiming that actually the land is worth a million dollars.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dude, calm down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he kind of does a bait and switch of like, sure, friend, I'll negotiate with you, and then not really. So this forces the Doe chefs basically, to just walk away from this deal. But what they do, because they're also petty bitches, is they buy the land next door to Mark. Or maybe they just had to. You know what I mean? Maybe that was just. You can't put a concrete plant just anywhere. It was just like, they didn't have a ton of choices.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So when Marv finds that out, he tries to buy that property out from under them before they can finalize the deal. But it's too late. Ink is dry. He can't do it. And this is when Marv goes on an all out crusade to fight that forthcoming concrete plant being put in now next door to him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This guy is exhausting. Like, dude, take a nap and go ride your snowmobile.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My thing is for real, right? It's like you can't only snowmobile your way out of your emotions. You have to pit. You have to go to therapy. You have to go to therapy. I'm sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you can say snowmobile. I mean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yep. What are you saying? Nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so what is that bug?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a moth. I'm telling you, it's a ghost from 1914.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a big moth. If it lands on my shoulder, I'm leaving.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so Marv frames this concrete plant as a toxic, harmful project. He says he's worried that the dust and the environmental issues will bring all kinds of problems to his property. He cites all sorts of zoning violations and issues. To be fair, Marv is not the only person in Granby who feels this way about this concrete plant. But for Marv, it's personal. He starts going door to door in Granby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yikes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he also runs countless ads in the local newspaper. Sky High News. Anyone heard of it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of course not. They say we're not from Granby. But basically, he's doing everything he can to kind of lobby against this plant. He also lawyers up. He files a lawsuit in hopes of halting construction. So now the Sky High News starts covering this battle because it's so public. Marv's not pleased with the angle they take on the situation, though, because they position both him and his attorney as outsiders. I'm considered an outsider in Petaluma. Really, because I moved there when I was 2. It's how small towns are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that town is a big town compared to Granby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If that fucking moth doesn't get out of here while I am performing. Excuse me. Excuse me. Mom. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're. Good luck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Man on the the street interview with a moth. How long have you lived at the Paramount Theater?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Moth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, this is so fucking long. I gotta go. All right. Unfortunately for Marv, all his time, money, and energy fighting this cause does not stop the concrete plant. If anything, it causes the town of Granby to make sure everything is done exactly by the book. So there's. They're not breaking any rules. And the Dochevs work with the town to iron out all those zoning issues that he was trying to to site. And meanwhile, Marv has convinced himself that the city is Con conspiring against him and his business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He might be right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I don't think he is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Knowing what is at the end of this document.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Keep it in mind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then in 2001, which is four years, you know, into his crusade against the concrete plant, a really bad thing happens. We're going back to 2000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we're. I think I know what it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not 9 11. The concrete mixer fills up and begins to overflow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ew. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so what Marv does is he doesn't solve the problem. He just. He simply pumps. Pumps all of that human waste into a ditch behind his property.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nah, dude, you can't do that. No, Turns out it turns out it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is against the rules.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's, like, mad at the concrete people, but then he's just, like, dumping shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly. He's an environmental toxicity warrior. And then it's like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's natural.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. He's only mad at concrete, not human feces everywhere. So. So he immediately gets caught doing that. He gets fined $2,500 and warned that he absolutely must get connected to the city sewer system or his business could be shut down. And Marv calls this requirement a form quote, a form of terrorism.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ah, bad timing, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What, do you want me to have indoor plumbing too? What is this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did it land on me? Oh, it landed on me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it on you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Anyone?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it on you? Yeah, what do you want from us? Hi. We're trying to do our first live show. Back after six.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's cute. I'm happy about it. Oh, wait. Maybe it came from my dress. Maybe I don't smell like mothballs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That poor moth is like, I just want to go home. Please let me. Please let me go home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hot lady is wearing my dress.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You steamed him out of the dress.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oops. He's still there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just put your finger up. Wave. He flies away. So this is when Cody Dochev calls Marv and offers to cover the cost of. Of the sewer line installation if Marv will just stop fighting about the concrete plant. So Marv hangs up on him. Yes, he is not down. So at this point, Marv's been spending a lot of time alone, often in his hot tub, which you would think would be a positive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I get it. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the one man who. A hot tub is not a positive. Doesn't have a positive effect on him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Makes it worse.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's wearing those overalls. He has a muffler, and he's just like, I never Wasted any motion. And still here I am stewing in anger and paranoia in a hot tub. If this sounds like you, please call the Granby hot tub hotline. Also, I wrote in. This is just a guess, but it sounds like it might be spring. So I think he has a snowmobiled.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In a while, so he's itching.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All this is to say Marv is in a bad place. And we know this, and we know what happens next, because Marv ends up recording a very long manifesto.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, man, when there's a manifesto, you shit's going south, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is. That's the gate through which you walk. And you're like, now this goes into a terrible true crime story, right? The timeline goes like this. This. In April of 2002, Marv's lawsuit against the Do Chefs is officially dismissed. Back in the hot tub. Hot tears. Five mufflers this time. So the concrete plant is going full steam ahead. Three months later, in July of 2002, a special delivery arrives for Marv in Granby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What is it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's an enormous Komatsu D355A bulldozer, which he reportedly got a great deal on. Oh, so these were designed. These are the gigantic bulldozers that were designed for oil fields and mining operations.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't know there were different kinds of bulldozers. That's great to know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's like a little one, like a skip loader that they use at Costco. And then there's these fucking gigantic ones that are like, we're gonna dig into the center of the earth and release cryptids. That's my personal dream. Anyway. They're over 12ft tall, nearly 30ft long, and they can weigh over 100,000 pounds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What else is 30ft long? A standard school bus, a large RV, an adult blue whale.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good to know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For reference, that's according to AI I'll say. Which also recommended that to stay healthy, you should eat six small rocks a day. So let's take everything with a grain of salt in our AI Future. This whole thing was written by AI. So the manifesto, of course, is a terrible sign. Giant earth moving equipment is not a great one either. Then Marv starts selling everything he owns at auction.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Horrible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

His shop, equipment, motorcycles, boats, his house, and worst of all, his seven beloved snowmobiles. Very bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I thought you were going to say dogs. But snowmobiles isn't as bad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So by October of that year, Marv has sold almost all of his assets. He's closed his muffler business. Nobody is seeing these signs. Which is very upsetting. And maybe he just alienated enough people where it's just like, oh, that guy. He also moves all his money into his father's bank accounts without telling him or anybody else. He also works out a temporary arrangement with the people that he sells his house and land to that they're allowing him to lease back the muffler shop for a year, as he explains to them, so he can, quote, finish some work. Fun fact. One day after closing the sale on this property, the new owners connect the property to the city sewer system. Just that easy. My God, 24 hours. Okay, so Marv secretly moves himself and his giant bulldozer into his muffler shop. And for the next year, no one knows what he is doing in there. This is when he begins recording this manifesto in which he says of the local people of Granby, quote, they thought they could do whatever they wanted to me. They were wrong. And so his revenge project begins. Marv begins modifying this gigantic bulldozer, adding steel and concrete panels up to a foot thick, attaching video cameras protected by bulletproof lenses, and mounting several gun ports, basically turning this machine into a full on weaponized tank.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then on June 4, 2016 in 2004, Marv climbs into this gigantic armored bulldozer and lowers a steel slab weighing several tons over the hatch. And once he does this, he has no way of getting back out. Oh, let's take a look at the killdozer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we? Holy shit. It's the death star of bulldozers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. I mean, yeah, I guess welding, that's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What welding, that's what welding can give you. That's what no wasted motion can end up looking like. It's just so sad. It's like that is. That took so long. That's a person who was in so much pain and nobody, he didn't have anybody to turn to. He just was like, fine, I'll just weld the fuck out of these feelings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, horrible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So around 2pm, this 90 ton machine bursts out of the muffler shop. And going three to five miles an.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hour, that's not as tough, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, very, very.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Make up, make up a different number.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like, it's a slow attack, which I think are worse. Just like, it's like the zombie thing. I'd prefer a fast zombie and just get it over with.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Yeah, all right, all right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So his first target is the Dochev's concrete plant. Workers there watch in disbelief as this steel covered bulldozer Smashes onto the property through the plant walls. The building collapses around it. Bystanders try stopping this bulldozer by jamming debris into the treads. One person fires a handgun at it. But you saw it, it does nothing. And they can't see if there's a driver inside. They don't know if somebody is working it remotely. Like no one understands what's going on. And this is when Cody Doshev shows up. Can. Oh, I bet you can you go backwards if you could? Because I think I have a theory that that's Cody Dochev. He tried to get into it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he actually slipped off of that. That's a guess though, because there's a cop there. So that could. Could be a cop and I could be wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But Cody Docef actually tried to get up and inside when he was doing that, and he was unable to. So what he did, he gets the rest of the concrete plant evacuated. And then he. He goes and gets his own front end loader and he tries to basically go, lift. I don't think we have that. Go lift the. That bulldozer off the ground.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Damn.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like. That's sad. Don't. No, you're not going to beat that thing. All Cody can manage doing is spinning the bulldozer, like around a little bit. But as the two machines ram each other, Cody gets knocked out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this is when Marv starts shooting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He fires 10 to 12 rounds toward Cody's loader. Sorry, that's really hard to say. Toward Cody's loader. But the steel plating makes it hard for him to aim on the right side. So it's not very well, you know, planned out, I guess. So thankfully he misses Cody. And I'm not sure if Cody was still unconscious or not. But how scary for everybody else where like, then the gunshots start either way if he was awake or not. So now the police made it on the scene. They have to duck for cover as Marv turns the bulldozer's guns in the direction of a fuel truck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But thank God he can't aim well. So instead of hitting the fuel truck, he just takes out some natural gas piping, which is. It's fine, it's natural. And a couple electrical boxes, which is just sparks, and that's fun. And a transformer, which is a great cartoon. So once that's done, the bulldozer then turns and slowly drives off, heading toward downtown Granby. And this is where it gets bad. Marv drives the bulldozer into Granby and his path of destruction begins. He crushes a Ford Expedition. He destroys the Granby town hall. The town fucking hall.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then he destroys the library. Then he destroys the city's only traffic light.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then a bank. We have the bank.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit. Yeah, fuck the bank.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That gorgeous stone faced bank. Then the sky hay newspaper offices who had been reporting on him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. That's a lot of fucking damage.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is fucking damage like crazy. And then a house owned by a Granby towed board member. As it goes. People are trying to shoot at the bulldozer. Some people try throwing grenades at it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the. This is. That's crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm sorry. You don't carry a grenade. Well then you're not ready when the big bulldozer comes to town.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The top of your list of things he destroyed was a Ford Explorer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I'm really mad about that. They're a gorgeous vehicle. Bullets bounce off of this thing. Some locals get it like Cory tried to do. Some get into their own construction machinery and also drive at the bulldozer. None of them are a match. Soon Denver media outlets have helicopters in the air on the scene while everyone's radios are tuned to the blow by blow that the local AM radio station is basically giving everybody hell.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So everyone hears it when Marv turns his bulldozer toward a propane storage yard that has five 3,000 gallon tanks and two huge 30,000 gallon tanks of propane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's big.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If he is able to shoot at even one of these tanks, the whole area could go up and right across the street is a senior living center.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Luckily Marv's aim is impeded. So he abandons that horrific plan. Just like everyone's standing there waiting for something to happen. He's just like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Never mind. Goes the other way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And what he heads for is one of my favorite names of a business ever. Gramble's Hardware Store. Gramble's Hardware Store.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one likes it as much as me. Alone again. And thanks. And Grambles is owned by another town board member. So Marv drives directly into the front of this hardware store and he brings the whole thing down around him. Can we see that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

There it is. That's the one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that the last one? Did we do so okay? That was it. Grambles. We hardly knew ye. This is when the bulldozer stops and steam starts hissing out of the now dead engine and the bulldozer's treads. Like there's debris stuck in all of Them that can't go any further. Deputies carefully approach the silent bulldozer, actively avoiding the gun ports. And that's when they hear a gunshot from inside. It takes bomb techs 10 hours to cut through the steel armor to get inside.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So at 1am they are able to blowtorch a hole big enough to see inside. And that's where they see that Marv Heemeyer is slumped over dead. He is shot himself in the head.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So despite the name that the press ends up giving to this creation, the Killdozer, miraculously no one in this town. I almost said Grambles. No one in the town of Grambles where I'm the mayor. This is good news. No one is killed. It's very sad that Marv is killed, but thank God no one else is hurt or killed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for the Ford Exposition.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So because of his manifesto, many outsiders have come to see Marv as like a kind of a folk hero, being an anti bureaucrat vigilante who's taken a stand against a small town's big government. That's not what happened here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is a perfect person who isolated themselves, started believing every goddamn thing that they thought, got real into money, ego, bullshit, and didn't have a person to call up and go, hey, can I run a couple things by you? I would really love to build the largest kill dozer anyone's ever seen and attack my enemies. And then that person goes, Marv, get out of the hot tub, get down to the tavern and be around other people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So people do go to the town asking to see the killdozer. They're told there's nothing to see. People do not like it when people go there. Obviously. Authorities actually dismantled the Killdozer and sent its parts to different scrapyards across the country so that it could never be made into like a shrine or you know what I mean, anything like that. And over 20 years later, from that day of destruction, the town of Granby and the people who lived there still have painful memories and of course, massive trauma. About like one of the most like insane, but also like, is this actually happening? Moments of all time. Marv Heemeyer's two hour rampage cost $7 million in damage. And it was, it was done to basically mom and pop businesses, just, just local people. Many were never able to recover. Some were able to rebuild. And the town actually really came together to help each other very beautifully. But you know, some, some people just had to go out of business in the aftermath of that day. They, the people of Granby Came together as a community, as I was just trying to improvise, but now I have to read it off the paper. They came. There we are. They came together. So this is where it ended up. This is Grambles. That was Grambles.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look at all those jeans.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And those are all those people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're not into the denim?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We told you it had an old west feel.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

These people cleaned up the destruction and the debris together. They actually found new spaces for displaced businesses and they did their best to. To move forward as a community. It's a very stark contrast to Marv Heemeyer's own trajectory. He worked to become a very well liked fixture in the town, but ultimately he couldn't get past these ideas he had in his head of what he was supposed to get and what he was owed and that entitlement that a lot of people have a problem with. And that, of course, caused him to withdraw into his hot tub and go insane. In the documentary Tread one friend of Marv's actually offers a simple, sad, and I will say a little bit funny explanation for Marv's dark turn saying, quote, he became a lonely man. He spent too much time alone. That's what I put it off to. He spent too much time in the hot tub alone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He said that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He said that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Damn.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the full quote. And that's the story of. Of the killdozer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. What a tale.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amazing, amazing story. Colorado.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good job. Welcome back. What's up? Hi. How are you? How are you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We thought it would never happen. One small note.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that got lost in the kerfuffle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is Georgia Heart Star.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's g.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What happens? What happened?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank God for you. Thank God for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, good job. So whoever gets picked, I'm going to be right over there. Okay. Did you find the button? Did you find the button? Remember I got it. Oh, you do? Here, give it to me. Oh, hell yeah. You're the best. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you do your couple stuff off stage, please?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I forgot to tell him. Remember I told you that I bought bought something today at Gold Mine for the hometown person here? It's a button. You want to read it out loud?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ask me about my bad habits and red flags.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's kind of like made for this podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Perfect.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so good. Well, oops. So this, if you don't know, I spilled my water. Did you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

On this gorgeous carpet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you don't know, this is the part where Georgia randomly picked up anybody from the audience to come up and tell their hometown with us on stage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And there's rules behind it. Just make it short. Don't be shit faced. Right. Don't point at someone you don't know you want it. Yeah. Okay. Right here. Go over there, please. Sorry, I hate doing that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For one second, I thought it was the hot dog putting their hand up, and I was just like, well, here we go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here she. Okay. And then we wait a little while. Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then we're like, how did you feel about that first show?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pretty good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think we did okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Right. Here she is. Oh, here they come. Yay. Hi, Katie. You guys. It's Katie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, Right here, front and center.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm from Bradenton, Florida. We flew in from Florida yesterday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. Thank you. Do you like Colorado?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So far we've only been here a day, and it's my first time ever, and we're having so much fun. Sorry, Katie. I think they're all booing you right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't understand. They're mad because she. It's not a Colorado hometown.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. Oh. Was it supposed to be? It doesn't matter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe there could be another one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, but you're not mean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Unless we get kicked out of this theater, people are like, get out of here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, Katie, tell us your hometown. My hometown is Bradenton, Florida. Okay. And we like it. We like that idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Is that all I'm supposed to do?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no. Oh, she doesn't know. I don't know how it works. Katie. Is that it? Yeah, Katie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, does anybody have a hometown from Colorado?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You pick someone, you do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You pick it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, well, then I'll pick the clapping lady. Is it from Colorado?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, here she comes. Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here we go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cassandra. It's Cassandra. Everyone from Colorado, you owe, right here. Here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. What's your name?

[Georgia Hardstark]

My name is Cassandra.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi, Cassandra or Cassandra?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cassandra.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cassandra. Yeah. Cassandra, everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And where are you from?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Vail. From Vail, Colorado. See what? See how they did it? Yeah. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know how to do this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm sorry. No, you do. Just tell us why you got into true crime. What story you got you into? True crime?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your voice. It wasn't a story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get out. Get out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But my story, my fun story, is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

From up in Vail. In those areas, we all look at them. They're very, you know, hoity toity.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah. Richie, Richie. Rich people, right okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So when I was a freshman in high school, I went to a party in Aspen, Colorado, and the mother walked around with a silver platter of illicit substances. Oh, a good one or a bad one?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, good. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very, very clean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very clean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. But later on, somebody snitched to their mother.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the wife and son that were involved literally took all of the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fall for this husband who purchased everything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And owned the house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just so that his name wasn't involved. Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did they go to jail? Yeah, for like, a hot minute.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Really?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. How old was the son? 17. No. Did he?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did he have to go to juvie?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not have had a crush on him?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were too rich.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No juvie. He probably, like, cleaned up trash on the side of the road for, like, six months.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's how it is. That's veil, but yeah. Aspen. Oh, I'm sorry. That's Aspen in Vail.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our parents still yell at us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay, good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yay, Cassandra, everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cassandra, everyone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cassandra, guess what you get. Wait, Cassandra. Cassandra, you get this pin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah. Great job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Practice for like, six weeks in the skills. It's hard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She said I practiced for six weeks and it still sucked. Cassandra, that's how we feel.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the vibe, baby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. That's 100%.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, thank you so much for being here tonight, Denver.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is incredible. We appreciate you guys coming to our first live show in six freaking years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Selling out. Two nights in Denver. Thank you guys so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We love you so much. Thank you, Denver. Stay sexy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times from the start. The omens are bad. That place is a terrible. The darkest jungle you've ever seen in your life. You have no clue. John and Anne Bender are young, rich and attractive. He's a Wall street whiz kid.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just handsome. Movie star handsome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they're devoted to each other. There's a lot of just, like, warmth and care. They set up a nature reserve and build a strange new home. It's like a spaceship's landed on the top of a hill in the middle of the Chung of the in Costa Rica. But slowly their dream starts to crumble.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was just doomed. Just doomed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm Becky Milligan, and this is Hell in Heaven, a new podcast from Exactly Right Media and Iheart Podcasts, produced by Blanchard House. I'm a seasoned investigative journalist, and I've reported on some pretty weird stories over the years. But believe me, me, stories don't get much weirder than this. Because even out here in the jungle, you can run, but you can't hide. All of a sudden, there's guys with guns, lots of men with guns. They were saying, help, Help.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There. They're kidnapping us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As their past catches up with them, our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts until one night everything spins out of control, he says. Colonel, we heard a shot inside the boss's house, and I could see the gun on the floor and the trail of blood. And one of them will end up being tried for murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not once people gasped.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not twice, stunned, but three times. We were all looking at each other just in total disbelief. Helen Heaven premieres on October 9th. New episodes Thursdays. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. This has been an Exactly Right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our Researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Follow the show on Instagram at. My favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now you can watch us on exactly right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe. Goodbye now streaming on Paramount plus Hunted by hackers, stalked by assassins and wanted by international police, Tony and Ziva are on the run and getting some action.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Car chases, surprise weddings, killer Dr. Undercover ops, robot dogs, daring heists, prison breaks. Nothing will keep this couple from taking down an international conspiracy and clearing their names.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good thing espionage is their love language.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get ready for the ultimate romantic escape with the premiere of Tony and Ziva now streaming on Paramount.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye with great deals coming this prime big deal days October 7th and 8th.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Greatness is a deal away. So if you love baking, you can.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get a deal on a new mixer transforming you into the Lord of the Loaves. Here you ye hear ye make way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For the Baron of Brioche, the Sultan of Sourdough, the Lord of the loaves. Prime member Dave yeah, hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get up to 40% off with prime big deal days October 7th and 8th. So do healthier choices really pay off?

[Georgia Hardstark]

With prescription plans from CVS Caremark, they do their plan designs give you more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Choice, which gives members more ways to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get on, stay on and manage their meds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that helps you control your costs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because healthier members are better for business. Go to CMK CO Access to learn more about helping your members stay adherent. That's CMK Co accession.