503 - Live at the Eccles Theater (Salt Lake City Night 2)

Summary

My Favorite Murder, Episode 503: "Live at the Eccles Theater (Salt Lake City Night 2)"

Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark
Date: October 23, 2025
Location: Eccles Theater, Salt Lake City
Network: Exactly Right & iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This lively episode of My Favorite Murder features Karen and Georgia performing the second of two sold-out live shows in Salt Lake City. After a playful warm-up banter reflecting on their experiences in town, the hosts deliver two signature true crime stories: Georgia recounts the bizarre rise, viral fame, and mysterious removal of the Utah Monolith, while Karen dives into the legendary life (and disputed death) of Utah’s own Gentleman Bandit, Butch Cassidy. The episode also features an audience “hometown murder” story, serving classic MFM comedy, empathy, and crowd interaction throughout.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

[02:01–09:55] Warm Welcome, Local Banter, and Laughter

• Backstage & Audience Energy: Karen and Georgia joke about their “second night” in Salt Lake and playfully tease the returning audience. Georgia describes a trip to the local farmers’ market, sharing a story about meeting her favorite dog, “Gentleman.”
  Quote:

  “Guess how much I lost my fucking—when I saw this guy. He was so chill. There were, like, fucking rottweilers walking by him. And he was just like, double middle fingers.” —Georgia (04:47)

• Wardrobe Jokes: They humorously compare their outfits: “We look like Jolly Ranchers.” —Georgia (03:25)

• Tour Life Relatability: Karen discusses getting her nails done in the hotel, and the mishaps that ensued, involving a surprise IT rescue.
  Quote:

  “Finally, Christy pipes up, and she goes, ‘I actually work in IT.’ And I was like, ‘God damn it, Christy, get over here right now and fix this problem.’ And she did.” —Karen (07:27)

• Tour Anxiety and Gratitude: The hosts discuss returning to live shows after years away, with real honesty about nerves and gratitude for community support.
  Quote:

  “So grateful in times like these that you guys bought tickets, came out. We were so scared. It’s been six years since we’ve been on the road...” —Karen (08:58)

[09:55–14:44] Explaining MFM's Vibe and Format

• What is MFM, Anyway? Karen and Georgia riff on their “true crime/comedy” approach, unapologetically warning the uninitiated “drag alongs.”
  Quote:

  “We don’t think murder is funny. We think we’re funny. And we also grew up with lots of trauma like everybody else, probably, in this room. And we learned to cope with it through humor. And so that’s why this podcast is the way it is. And if you don’t like it, you can get the fuck out.” —Karen (13:07)

• Format Reminder: Each host picks a story without telling the other in advance, keeping things fresh for both them and the audience.

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Georgia’s Story: The Utah Monolith Mystery

[18:23–50:22]

[18:23–23:59] Discovery and Description

• During COVID lockdown (November 2020), a mysterious, metallic monolith was spotted from a helicopter in the remote deserts of Utah. The finding sparked viral intrigue and rampant speculation.

• Georgia sets the scene with drama and classic MFM snark: Quote:

  “Was it a prankster or an artist? Or was it a fucking alien? Tonight we’re gonna try to unravel the mystery that refuses to be explained. This is the story of the Utah Monolith.” —Georgia (19:14)

• The structure is described as nearly 10 feet tall, made of sheet metal riveted over a plywood frame, planted firmly into a remote canyon.

[24:00–32:03] Internet Sleuths and Viral Madness

• Official attempts to keep its location secret were immediately foiled by internet detectives who cross-referenced images and tracked helicopter flight paths.

• Georgia humorously outlines one local woman’s determined quest to find the monolith, relating how “none of us had jobs at the time.” (28:28)

• Redditors and even Dutch journalists jump in, nailing down both the location and its installation window (sometime in 2016). The story becomes a symbol of internet obsession—and pandemic boredom.

[32:03–40:44] Environmental Backlash, Sudden Disappearance

• With the secret out, crowds flock to the site—damaging untouched land and risking personal safety.

• Environmentalists and officials are dismayed:
  Quote:

  “While curiosity is understandable, we discourage visiting the monolith. Along with safety concerns, increased crowds threaten the archaeological... [pause]... yeah, you nailed it. Third time’s a charm.” —Georgia & Karen (36:01)

• Mysterious Vanishing: Ten days after its discovery, the monolith disappears. Amateur investigators and photographers observe a group of men dismantling and removing it, leaving behind the phrase, “Leave no trace.”
  Quote:

  “This is why you don’t leave trash in the desert.” —One of the unidentified men who took it down (39:18)

[40:44–49:54] Whodunnit and the Aftermath

• Two local “nature guys” claim credit for removing the monolith to protect the land. Theories about its origins abound:

  • Prank?
  • Anonymous artist?
  • The late minimalist John McCracken?
  • “A bike messenger... just kind of a Weldy guy.” (44:59)

• The monolith’s viral success spawns global copycats, with versions found in Romania, India, Austria, and more.

  Notable Laugh Line:

  “The materials are unremarkable, and you’ve got to assume that they’ve got better tools and shit.” —Georgia, regarding the possibility of it being aliens (44:27)

---

Karen’s Story: Butch Cassidy – The Gentleman Bandit

[54:19–94:31]

[54:19–63:27] Origins and Early Crimes

• Born Robert Leroy Parker in Beaver, Utah (1866), to Mormon immigrant grandparents, he grows up the eldest of 13 children.

• His early mentor, Mike Cassidy, introduces him to cattle rustling and the outlaw life.

• Adopts the name “Butch Cassidy” after a stint at a Wyoming butcher shop.

• Quote:

  “He always seemed to possess from birth a set of standards below which he believed a gentleman should never stand... Generosity was his strong suit.” —Karen, paraphrasing Leerson’s biography (62:08)

[63:28–77:06] Leader of the Wild Bunch

• Butch teams up with notorious outlaws, creating a loose network later dubbed “The Wild Bunch.”

• The crew robs banks and trains with trademark politeness and minimal violence.

• Innovations include strategically stashing fresh horses for getaways.

  Quote:

  “It’s like a relay for horses.” —Georgia (66:02)

• Butch’s blend of charm and cunning allows him to repeatedly evade capture, even as a serious manhunt commences post-robberies.

[77:07–89:07] The Legendary Robberies and On the Run

• Describes famous, well-planned heists—like the daylight payroll wagon robbery and the sensational Union Pacific train job where “money flies everywhere” after a dynamite blast (82:45).

• Community members (including Mormon families, per a surprise audience email) sometimes provide safe houses for the gang, cementing the folkloric aura of the duo.

  Notable Hometown Email Read:

  “If you ever decide to rob a bank via old fashioned steam engine, know that the Mormons got your back.” —Mikaela, audience member’s family email, recounted by Karen (87:46)

[89:08–94:31] Mystery of Butch & Sundance's Deaths

• The pair flee to South America, living off the grid in Argentina, then allegedly die in a Bolivian shootout. The remains, however, are never conclusively identified. Quote:

  “DNA does not match... leading some historians to believe that the Bolivian authorities misidentified the men shot and killed that day, and that once again, Butch and Sundance escaped and lived out the rest of their lives under new names.” —Karen (92:37)

• The hosts ruminate on American mythmaking, the enduring power of legend, and the comforting camaraderie of Paul Newman and Robert Redford “drunk in heaven.”

---

[94:50–103:07] Hometown Murder: Megan’s Temple Square Stalker

• Live Audience Story (Megan):
  Megan recounts serving her Mormon mission on Temple Square, encountering a mentally ill stalker named Felix who follows her home. In the same month, the community reels from the high-profile disappearance and murder of Lori Hacking.

  • Megan and her companion narrowly avoid letting an impostor posing as a security guard into their apartment.
  • After being relocated, Megan participates in a memorial vigil for parents who lost children, where Lori Hacking’s parents speak powerfully about grief.
  • The story comes full circle as Megan finds meaning years later attending similar vigils at her own children’s resting place.

  Memorable Reaction:

  “That was a perfect hometown. A perfect hometown.” —Karen (103:25)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You want a clean glass, you wash that glass. We put up a sign. Your mom doesn’t work here at this theater, Janet.” —Karen (10:36)
• “We just appreciate you’ve given us very beautiful lives... and we will need that community going forward in these fucked up times. Please love each other, please help each other, and stay sexy.” —Karen (103:51)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:01–09:55] Show banter, Salt Lake City jokes, tour stories
• [18:23–50:22] Georgia’s story: The Utah Monolith
• [54:19–94:31] Karen’s story: Butch Cassidy and the Wild Bunch
• [94:50–103:07] Hometown from Megan: Temple Square, true crime connections
• [103:51–104:22] Closing gratitude, community message

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Summary Tone & Style

• The episode is full of the hosts’ signature blend of vulnerability and irreverence, frequently breaking for goofy tangents about fashion, menopause, dogs, and Utah travel woes.
• Even when navigating grim subject matter—true crime, unsolved mysteries, societal trauma—they maintain a tone rooted in optimism, curiosity, and a commitment to community.
• Their comedic chemistry and crowd rapport are center stage, making the episode feel spontaneous and warmly interactive.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

Live from Salt Lake City, Karen and Georgia deliver stories with local flavor and classic humor, unpacking the pandemic-era mystery of the Utah Monolith and the enduring legend of Butch Cassidy. The episode’s big laughs and poignant moments—the anxiety of returning to live shows, tales of pandemic weirdness, audience connections, and generosity—provide both big entertainment and genuine emotional resonance. The show closes, as ever, with a cherished reminder to “stay sexy, and don’t get murdered.”

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Sam. What's up, Salt Lake City. Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I literally yelled at that lady to stand up and give us a standing ovation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, you may be seated. Oh, you didn't say city last night when we yelled Salt Lake City, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know because I did and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So this time I didn't. So we'd match. And then you yelled city and this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is how we do it. You know this song.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi. Good to see you guys again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. Thanks for staying overnight and staying the rest of the day and being here again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. You guys slept in the building and we appreciate that. It's very nice of you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You do? Who was here last night and heard our funny jokes?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, I was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's enough. That we can tell the jokes again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know. Or not enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, exactly. We're going to do the same set.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We look like Jolly Ranchers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We look like USS Enterprise wives.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was a good one. The Macarena was saying, like, a whole thing happened, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, it did. I remember. I know I'm kind of distracted because at first I thought you were just chilling by the stage, but did your seat break?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No seat at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it. Yeah, they're having a. We're gonna let them have a thing. He's installing a seat for you. Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll get you a folding chair.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't worry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You paid top dollar to be in the front row, so we'll absolutely move you to the back row.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In this economy? Yeah. I went to the farmer's market today. Oh, I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What did. What fresh produce did you buy for your hotel room?

[Georgia Hardstark]

A thing of kombucha. That's it. And there's so many. It was a great farmer's market. I wish it was close to our house where we live in Los Angeles.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There were tons of dogs, but I met one dog and took a photo of it. My favorite dog.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you wanna see it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, I do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

His name was Gentleman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Guess how much I lost my fucking. When I saw this guy. He was so chill. There were, like, fucking rottweilers walking by him. And he was just like, double middle fingers. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Rottweiler walks by, he's like, go fuck yourself. His name is the deepest voice of all time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gentleman is his name. And he was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he truly was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He truly was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, any dog pics, or.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, that's fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. That's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, there were so many. You know, there was only one cat, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Farmer's Market cat. That's. They're busting out of the bookstores.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Getting into those farmer's markets. It's a new dawn. It's a new day. Do you want to hear what I did?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now, this is a little bit braggy, so judge if you want, but there's nothing I could do about it. I got my fingernails painted in my hotel room.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, that's right. Because I had to work on my story and do a bunch of other shit. So Hunter and Christy came from Pink Bubble Salon. The best. But here's why they're the best. Because, you know, we're just chatting. It's very uncomfortable to sit with a stranger in a hotel room and just be like, mmm. Like, it's very weird. So I turned on the tv. Didn't help. Hunter was doing an incredible job. Christy was Just kind of sitting there, like, assisting. And then I was simultaneously wrapping up my story on the laptop. And what happened? The spinning wheel of death came up, and I was, like, two pages away from being done. So I'm, like, trying to be cool, and also. You know what I mean? Like this. Trying not to make any fast moves, but I'm like, holy fucking J. And I'm like, I don't know what.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To do because your computer's gonna die and you're gonna lose all the work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I scroll back, and I just start taking pictures of my story. Right? Because it's gotta. I gotta get it somewhere. I'm not fucking starting from page one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At 3. 45 in the afternoon. So I'm just, like, trying to. I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm moving. I just. I'm having a problem with this document that I really need. By 5pm I have to have it. Whatever. And so he's like, no problem. Don't worry about it. And Christy's just kind of staring at me, and then I'm, like, doing things, and she watches me take the pictures and the whole thing. Finally, I'm like, I could. I'm like, texting, texting Maren. Molly's off our producer. It was her birthday weekend. So I'm like, there's no way I can text Molly on her birthday weekend.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Finally, Christy pipes up, and she goes, I actually work in it. And I was like, God damn it, Christy. Get over here right now and fix this problem. And she did. Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hunter just brings an IT person with him wherever he goes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it because Hunter knew what he was doing. Pink Bubble Salon, ladies and gentlemen, please support. Please support them in everything they do, because it's not just nails. It's not so much fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I thought you were gonna fuck your nails up immediately, which is what I always do when someone's doing my nails, like, really carefully. Just kind of, like, hit. You know, do that immediately. That actually hurt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it was a great example of what you do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Being myself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What else do we. Oh, well, do you want to show everybody around the room?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look at this gorgeous lime green number.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. It's vintage. It smells like it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what you're in it for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It feels like it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It looks great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. I really. Lime green, guys. Let's bring it back forward.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, let's bring lime green back immediately.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And your incredible dress.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much. Because it has pockets.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. To. Thank you so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, speaking of Pockets. This is my favorite murder of the podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much. That's Georgia Hardstark.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Karen Kilgera.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're so happy to be here with you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So grateful. So grateful in times like these that you guys bought tickets came out. We were so scared.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We really were.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's been six years since we've been on the road, so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we've forgotten how to do this a little bit. That's right. It's a little restaurant actually. Know how to do it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not really.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But here we are. Should we sit down?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, let's sit down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Secret tissues are here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Look at that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. I don't have to put them in my undergarments anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On the first night and the first show back in Denver, really, at one point, Georgia reached down and pulled a Kleenex out of I do not know where. And it was so distracting. I just like. All I wanted to do was talk to you about where you put it, where you got it from, how it came out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Us allergy premenopause Girls know you just gotta have tissues at the ready. Got to all the time. What are you gonna do?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You have to have tissues at the ready and you have to remember that the seat heater is not on. It's you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's your.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's your ass actually heating the seat seat up. Not the seat heating your ass up. That's the life I've been living recently. On the phone with my friend Furious, being like, God damn, this seat heater's on. I'm so furious. And then I'm just like, see the seat heater button? It's not on. Just like, great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This has my lipstick from last night on it. How do we feel about that? I hope it's my lipstick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, waiter, look, you want a clean glass, you wash that glass. We put up a sign. Your mom doesn't work here at this theater, Janet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She does actually.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you want to tell really quick? It's so good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So good. So my mom came to the Boston show. My mom and stepdad came to the Boston show because it's a big deal. We filmed it for a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We filmed it. So I was very excited.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it was a really big deal. I wanted her to be there. And so they came. And the night before the show being filmed for an important thing. I meet her in the lobby and she has a full on tooth missing in the front of her face. It's like a. Her crown fell off and it was like a nub. Like A gray nub. So I didn't even know she fucking had a crown, by the way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She kept it from you. That's how vain she is. And now she's exposed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I was like, mom. And she was like, is it noticeable? Like, are you fucking kidding me?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I just say this about Janet? Yeah. This is from the first moment I ever saw Janet. This is the most blown out woman you've ever. She is absolutely. Oh, my God. Do you see that fog? Or is it me? Am I dying? Or are we all dying?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Either way, it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're together. It doesn't matter. Yeah, she is. She is. Janet is on point in every way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And she's vain. It's fine. Like, I got it from her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we all are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sit up straight and everything. So she's missing a fucking tooth. And she's like, do you think anyone will notice? And I was like, mom, this is being filmed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do the real reenactment of how you said it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mom, what the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you fucking kidding?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, whatever it was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get this fixed right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was like, hey, I'll pay for it. Go get it fixed tomorrow in Boston. Find an emergency dentist on Saturday because I know you do not want to be on film with. I know you don't. I'm doing you a favor. And she got it fixed and looked gorgeous, so. And I was like, can I tell this story on stage? And she was like, yes. And. And you can embellish it all you want.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, yeah. Janet comes through when I need her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's good parenting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She gives you what you need in the times that you need it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But not in your childhood.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've just. She just taught me not to need anything from anyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? Which is. Hey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I never.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look where you are right now, friend.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It works.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It works.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She wasn't wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was not wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. Should we talk about what this is?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah. Tell everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So every time we do a live show, we know there are people in this audience who have no fucking clue what's going on right now. We call you Drag alongs. We are sorry. And also. Give us a chance. But we do feel like we need to say this, which is that this is a true crime comedy podcast. And when we first started it, there were people who really did not like that combination. So we like to say, you know, that George and I, we don't think murder is funny. We think we're funny. And we also grew up with lots of trauma like everybody else, probably in this room. And we learned to cope with it through humor. And so that's why this podcast is the way it is. And if you don't like it, you can get the fuck out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

See, I, as my mother's daughter. Daughter would have said please at the end of that, which doesn't hit as hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, I'm my mother's daughter, so I'm just offering options that you can have with a weird smile on my face. That's very threatening. That's how Pat did it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hell, yeah. And we also don't know each other's stories. We're very careful about that. I kind of lose my mind over it, and everyone who works with us hates us for that, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's more fun because it's like, I'm the audience. We all know the same when Georgia tells her story, and you all know the same when I tell my story. So it's fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. And I'm first tonight.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You are first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'Re doing it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I'm looking at the Tzatsiki Chicken Shawarma Power bowl, and literally, I'm like, that could take care of everything. It takes, what, 10 minutes to make?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you could make that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I could make it, and then I would be done. And I could actually have it for lunch, probably the next day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely. I believe in you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Hungryroot.com code MFM.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Of mind because ultimately it's like you want to be able to check in, know for a fact, and not think about it anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like the last thing anyone needs is more stress these days.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So right now our listeners can save 50% on a SimpliSafe home security system at simplisafe.com fave that's simplisafe.com fav there's no safe like Simplisafe. Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Between work, family and everything else, getting to therapy can feel impossible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And dealing with insurance and referrals or awkward waiting rooms does not help.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's where Talkspace comes in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy provider, bringing you professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatrists that you can access anytime, anywhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Talkspace is also in network. Talkspace Therapy and Psychiatry is covered by most insurers and most insured members pay a copay of $0. Karen, we're on tour right now, which means I am canceling anything that matter at all. Like nothing is happening except for therapy. I would never cancel my therapy. I don't care if it's a travel day or a show day. I'm taking that therapy in the hotel room because I can't live without it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And if you are the kind of person that, like, maybe you're new to therapy or that's something that feels intimidating to you, Talkspace can make it so that it becomes very comfortable, so it's as accessible and easy for you and affordable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As a listener of this podcast, you'll get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com mfm and enter promo code SPACE80.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's S, P, A, C, E. 80.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com mFM and enter promo code SPACE80. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A few years ago Karen. Oh, we're starting. We're just starting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't realize you were talking to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're just a few months. Months into lockdown. COVID Lockdown. Horrible time for everyone. Everyone's starting to go a little stir crazy. Like the bang on the pots thing has stopped. You know that hope thing is going away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Remember hope?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And right then, in that moment in the beginning, a mystery appeared that had the Internet abuzz. TikTok, probably too. Out in the desolate expanse of Utah's Red Rock wilderness, a gleaming metallic structure appeared.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ooh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As if conjured from thin air. No warning, no explanations, only questions. Karen.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was it a prankster or an artist? Or was it a fucking alien? Tonight we're gonna try to unravel the mystery that refuses to be explained. This is the story of the Utah Monolith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, yes, yes. I love this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great, great. The main sources for the story are articles from the New York Times and the St. George News. And I'm gonna. Trying to say everything correctly, but Moab Desert is that it is spelled like it's said. And that's great. That helps me. So. So. November 18, 2020, remember? Pilot Brett Hutchings of the Utah Department of Public Safety takes a small group of biologists from the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources on a flight over a remote part of the desert in San Juan county to survey the area's bighorn sheep population. Nerds. No, I'm kidding. That sounds like so much fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry. Cause as you turned away, I couldn't hear and I was like, what did she just say? Big. Big what? What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bighorn sheep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I got it now, thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everything is as bighorn sheep as usual, until one of the biologists catches sight of something glistening in the red rocks below. And he says, quote, whoa, whoa, whoa. Turn around. We gotta go check this thing out. End quote. Brett follows the biologist suggestion and lands the helicopter near the site of the object. And they're situated in the center of a slot canyon, which is a deep, narrow canyon with steep walls, usually made of sandstone or other soft rock that's been eroded over time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oxford English Dictionary defines slot canyon as.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You guys know, there's a rock doctor here, probably, right? Or scientist, as you like to be called.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There actually probably is, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think that woman screaming bloody murder is probably. Or just big fan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Spider in the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a spider in the balcony. Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a ghost spider. Okay, so they see it and they see a prism shaped, chrome colored metal obelisk jutting upright out of the ground. It looks like something out of a 2001 A Space Odyssey. It is the monolith. Yeah. It looks like an ATM machine that never got finished or something. Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They left that there. It's from the beginning of Barbie number 2001. I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There it is, everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pretty amazing looking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's yours. Your monolith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You did that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. It stands about 9.8ft tall and is about 23 inches wide. Picture it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

2Ft.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. Yeah. Which in today's fee. The material used to make it are familiar. Meaning it's probably not from aliens. They'd use better materials. I guess they're like better at materials than we are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aliens love aluminum foil.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Turns out, turns out it's sheet metal riveted together around some kind of frame sturdy enough to plant into the ground and keep it standing. So that like, takes some effort. They didn't just throw it out there, leave it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it's situated in an incredibly random and remote location that's not easy to get to at all, especially with a massive heavy object like that. It's on public land, but there are no parking lots, bathrooms, trailheads, so no glamping. So we'll never go there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Essentially, I'd love it if someone planted one of those things right in the middle of a glamping circle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Less mysterious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. So there were any other public markers designating this as a place of interest for visitors or whoever wanted to put down a thing. So a representative from the Utah Department of Public Safety says, quote, says somebody took the time to use some type of concrete cutting tool or something to really dig down almost in the exact shape of the object and embed it really well. It's odd there are roads close by. But to haul the materials to cut into the rock and haul the metal, which is taller than 12ft in sections, do all of that in the remote spot. Is definitely interesting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. That's what art students want you to say about them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you know, this guy said this on a zoom in his pajama pants and a button up shirt. And he was like, remember that? Remember when I still do that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's been some zoom calls where the ugliest ugliness factor has been just through the roof on my part, where I'm just like, like, well, I know all these people. There's nothing this Is not a show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. I give up. I've given up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've all given up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they know. So there are no clues at all pointing to who could have made it. It's almost as it appeared out of nowhere. And so it's eerie and supernatural. And Brett, the pilot from before said, quote, we were kind of joking around that if one of us suddenly disappears, then the rest of us make a run for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Won't work. Yeah, running won't work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Grab the person who knows how to fly the helicopter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Run for it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't just make a run for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Keep those helicopter keys in your pocket. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do helicopters have keys too? I mean, it must, right? Hey, what are monoliths, you ask? Monoliths are typically made from one solid piece of stone. And they can either occur naturally as geological features or as man made objects in architecture or art. In nature, they conform through erosion, water wears away softer stone over time, leaving behind a column of hard rock, like lava cooled rock, you know, I mean, yeah, picture it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We get it, right? Like everyone gets it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone gets it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You guys aren't stupid. Okay. I love that. Ally just is like George has gotten. Have no idea what these are. I'm gonna have to explain. Like this is for me, not for you guys for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just now, you know. But then you can read it in a lightly sarcastic voice and it sounds like you've always known. That's the trick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Blaming voice. Yeah, sure. Is that it? Okay, so it's odd to find this. That's my point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

On November 20, 2020, two days after the discovery, the Utah Department of Public Safety posts photos of this on their Instagram. It's too mysterious for them not to share, but they're careful not to reveal its exact location. Since the monolith with it's not in an easy to access area. They don't want people. So many fucking stupid people, you guys. They don't want them getting lost or hurt while fucking trekking out to find it. Here's another picture of it with people. See how tall it is?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And like it is. It's not like in the. You know, it's with rocks. Like if the person wanted it to be found. Whoever put it there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think it's aliens. They would have put it out in the middle of the desert, not like behind rocks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except if it was for ceremonial purposes. Like they're trying to make it seem like it's for something. Then it being in this little pocket, you know, would get all the smart people thinking, hey, this might Be real.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you're thinking Satanists. Always, always think Satanists.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every day and night. That's me. Don't tell my dad or he'll get really upset.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But the Utah Department of Public Safety, or dps, understands everyone's curiosity and understands, or, sorry, underestimates everyone being really smart on the Internet, like your best friend, when you're like, I'm going on a date with this guy, and they find so, like, they find so much about him that you cancel the date. Have you ever done that? You have that one friend who's so good at it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. They're like, hey, listen, this guy's father paid his taxes late about 12 years ago. Don't get involved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or he used this throwaway account once and it was for this. And it's just some fucking dark. Yes. That's happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. I mean, this seems like a real story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a real thing. He had a rash and he asked Reddit about it, and my friend found it. Wow. Yeah, it was fine. It wasn't contagious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ali. Ali Ward. You tell her who you're going on a date with. And she's like, give me five minutes. And she's like, da, da, da, da. But it's crazy. It's great. There was nothing on Vince, by the way she looked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Green flag.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's very smart man. He would never put that in the Internet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly, exactly. So basically, of course, people are able to figure out where it is just based on that kind of photo. One Utah resident, a woman named Monica Holyoke from Moab, is a big outdoor enthusiast and experienced hiker. She is determined to track down the location of the monolith and see it for herself. She's probably so bored and locked down because she can't. You know, you couldn't even go hiking back then. Well, that's why I didn't go hiking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what it was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Remember how I had to quit hiking? So she's familiar enough with Utah's landscape that she bets she can narrow down the site by. By studying the photos from the DPS Instagram post and comparing them to Google Maps topographic images. So this is the greatest friend to have. For sure. After a few days of research, she finally narrows her search down to the Lockhart Basin. Your favorite basin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody. No one lives there. It's a smaller section of the Bears Ears National Monument.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure. They show up for Bears Ears.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bears Ears is about a two and a half hour drive southwest from Monica's home in Moab and encompasses over 1.3 acres of land, Ellie wrote. Or more than 2,100 square miles. Like I'm gonna know how big either of those fucking things are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't worry about the and or ally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I need neither.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Lockhart Basin is much smaller, though. Somewhere between 30 to 60 miles long. And so she and a friend, they venture out to the basin. They hike until they find the slot canyon, and then, just as she suspected, she finds the monolith standing. I mean, what a. That's the most excitement she's had in months, probably, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She drops to her knees and begins to worship the obelisk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She describes finding a monolith as being like finding a needle. Like finding a needle in a haystack. Yet somehow, to her surprise, she's not the only one there. Oh, such a bummer, you know? And you're like, I listened to that band first. I found that monolith first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, you didn't. A whole network of people wanting to find the monolith for themselves were working at tracking it down, just like Monica, because we. None of us had jobs at the time, Right? Tim Slane, a Reddit user, had tracked the DPS's helicopter's flight path. That's where he went. Like, that's so crazy, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He definitely had to, like, hack someone's. You'd hope he had a. Hack a computer system to figure that out. And it wasn't just public knowledge, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think they do public knowledge stuff like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, well, fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you don't like it, take it to the State House. I want. I have to stop interjecting. I'm so sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you must. You must. The obelisk demands that you interject.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just like in 2025 with everything going on, George was like, we need to take these flight path websites down. It's the first thing we need to take care of in America.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that is my plight now. This is what I'm fighting for. Okay? So Tim Slane, who's of course a Reddit user, tracks down no hate, tracks down the flight path, and then runs it through Google Earth as well. I think Google Earth put it up there to get more traffic. I just fucking figured it out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There it is. She solved it, ladies and gentlemen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How many? Yeah, it's okay. Thank you. A Dutch journalist used publicly available satellite images to find the monolith's location and then narrowed down the timeline from when it must have been installed. You know, like, looked at the old Google Maps picture and the current Google Maps.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The mailman was going by in that slot cannon. Nothing was there. Then the next time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My God. You could see my grandpa playing fetch with me one last time. I know. I love those. Those are so sad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So sad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My dog. My dog from 2006.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My dog standing at the end of the driveway waiting for me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we just bummed ourselves out at our own show. Why would we do that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm on a lot of things right now. Nothing illegal yet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

After party.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. Everyone knows Utah's got the. The purists. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ketamine. Ketamine. Let's all fall in a K hole together. God damn it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This could be a K hole in this whole 10 years. Okay, so stop it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stop it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He narrows down when the Dutch journalist narrows down that it had to be there sometime, had gotten there between July 7, 2016, and October 21, 2016, four years before it was discovered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it was just sitting there, biting its fucking time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on. I'm so interesting. Do, do, do. Where is everybody?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but still, no one can track down who might have built the monolith or why. At first, the San Juan County Sheriff's Department doesn't take the appearance of the monolith seriously. They kind of poke fun at it by making a Facebook post with mug shots of nine supposed suspects. Let's take a look at it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someone in social media at the San Juan County Sheriff's Department, that's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Caught my Joe. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Still don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's still a no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that's how seriously they took it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When I first turned, I saw ET and then a bunch of other ET like, shapes, and I was like, this is kind of like the faces of meth, of E.T. why would he get a dude addicted?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I lost me to meth. So they did that, and they're, like, you know, making fun of it. So, I mean, it was quarantine. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They had nothing else to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What, did you. Yeah, exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But with the secret of the Utah Monolith's location out, more and more people are attracted to land that, up to this point, had been virtually untouched by humans. So that's not cool. The risk of visitors getting into danger in the wilderness with virtually no resources skyrockets. We're talking about me. Oh. Environmentalists also become increasingly concerned. Just remember that during the pandemic, like, Vince and I tried to go hiking, and we got lost, and we were next to a Frisbee golf course, and we got lost, and we had to follow the Frisbee golf sailing through the air.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You had to follow the sound of the bros in the distance.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I was just kidding about that, but it's fucking true. Like, we had a wild through a stream, and I stepped into the stream. It was a whole thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just stay home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And so we have. So obviously people are gonna get hurt. And environmentalists also become increasingly concerned for the well being of the land. There's also concern about damaging or disturbing nearby Native American sites. So it's not cool, guys. The Utah Department of Heritage and Arts releases a statement saying, quote, while curiosity is understandable, we discourage visiting the monolith. Along with safety concerns, increased crowds threaten the. Archaeological. Archaeological. Archaeological.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you nailed it. Third time's a charm. She got it. Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The drag alongs are like, what the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What is this show?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Finally, while the monolith has craftsmanship. Better craftsmanship than graffiti. Still vandalism. It irreversibly altered the natural environment on public lands. So they're not stoked on it, end quote. Nope. That's end quote. Before I said they're not stoked on it. That's not them. That's me. I was ad living.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What? Geologist said they're not stoked on it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't tell you. I'm a geologist. That was my quote.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So with so much at risk, the San Juan County Sheriff's Department switches gears and teams up with the Bureau of Land Management to try and find out who built this monolith and why. Assuming they can find them. I don't know. But before their search can yield any useful results, the monolith disappears.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Boop. That's what it said. No. Boop.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. On November 28, a mere 10 days after it's found, Utah officials report on their social media channels that the monolith heard has disappeared and that no official agency has taken it down. Like, they're like, not us, you know? Why are you laughing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some drunk high schoolers are like, we're gonna fucking get that monolith and we're gonna put it in the quad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Senior prank. Oh, wait, we don't go to school anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. We go to school on Zoom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. The Department of Public Safety writes on their Instagram quote, it's gone all caps. Almost as quickly as it appeared. It has now disappeared. I can only speculate that the aliens took it back. End quote. That's I swear. End quote.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The quote ends there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So little by little, a story begins to trickle out about how the monolith was taken down. Spoiler, not aliens. On Friday, November 27, 2020, one day before the disappearance is reported, a photographer named Ross Bernard ventures out to the site where with three friends so they can take artsy fartsy photos, I'm assuming. I don't know. I'm not judging, obviously. That does sound like a pr. They bring a light up drone for added effect. It takes six hours for them to drive to the spot that's like, yeah, San Francisco to la.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, yikes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And like, no. No lunchables on the way or anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No in and out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, they bring. I already said that. Six hours and. And then they arrived at the makeshift trailhead. It's not a sanctioned hiking area. About 7pm that night, there are tons of cars present. But by the time they hike out to the monolith, they are the last group there, and they have the site to themselves. And for about an hour and a half, they take all the photos they can. But then at about 8:40pm another group of four dudes shows up. Trouble. Two of them walk up to the monolith and give it a couple of pushes. Then they look at Ross and his bros and say, you better have gotten your pictures. And then with that, they give the monolith one more big shove, knocking it down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucking monolith bullies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Another guy in the group says, this is why you don't leave trash in the desert. For a second, Ross photographer is like, I'm gonna take. I have a camera. I'm gonna take photos of them. But he's a little intimidated. He doesn't want to piss these bullies. Monolith bullies off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So instead, one of his friends who's with him, Michael James Newlands, snaps some sly photos with his phone. In just eight minutes, the whole structure is dismantled and removed. As the four guys cart the wreckage away, they leave Ross and his friends with one last line. Leave no trace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, defenders of the land. Yes, it's important.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, these guys start out bullying. In an Instagram post recounting the experience that night, Ross says, quote, if you're asking why we didn't stop them, well, they were right to take it out. We stayed the night and the next day hiked to a hilltop overlooking the area where we saw at least 70 different cars and a plane in and out. Cars parking everywhere in the delicate desert landscape. I mean, they probably drove a car there too, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Glass houses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody followed a path or each other. We could literally see people trying to Approach it from every direction to try and reach it, permanently altering the untouched landscape. Mother Nature is an artist. Best to leave the art in the wild to her. Oh, he's a poet too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, very true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's Joshua trees. I mean, what's. What's called Burning Man's fine, though. Man, if I had gotten that first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't worry about the playa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, don't worry about the playa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go do your drugs there. Ride your weird steampunk bicycle all over the place. There you go, nerds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

After a few news reports comes out about the removal of the monolith, two men come forward claiming to be part of the group that removed them. Their names are Andy Lewis and Sylvan Christensen. Andy is a high altitude. This is her future husband. Andy is a high altitude slackline performer from Moab. No. Who has even done stunts alongside Madonna at the 2012 Super Bowl. HALFTIME. Remember when. Fucking slacklining. Everyone was like, what was that? Madonna.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Remember this sounds very pink coated. This is a. If it's anyone's husband, it's pink's husband. She loves a fucking. To be up on us. High wire. No one got my reference.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The only reason I remember this is because there was a really funny Saturday Night Live sketch about slacklining that just was Danny Samberg.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm sorry to say I don't know what slacklining is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it's like, I'm gonna be wrong. You have a line and it's kind of slack, and you, like, tie it between two trees. Hear me out. And then you, like, jump on it and do, like, twirls and whirls, and it's like a tightrope, but with slack.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Thank you. I'll show you now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if I had learned slack lining?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just rope drops from the ceiling, the music starts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think you'd laugh at it if you saw it. Okay, I'm pretty sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But, you know, I'm definitely confused by it right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a sport. I don't know. So Sylvan said they wanted to protect the land from the influx of newcomers coming to see the monolith because, you know, they're from Moab. They're like, this is bullshit. Yeah, exactly. He tells the New York Times, quote, this land wasn't physically prepared for the population shift. End quote. Being nature enthusiasts, both Sylvan and Andy don't like seeing people come into natural spaces with no knowledge of how to respect it. Which is fair enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's like me in Sephora. I swear to God I'm just like, get your fucking fingers out of that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Or being on a subway, like public transportation. You hold the pole and step away. You don't put your arm around the pole. It's not your.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hug it. I actually, the last time we were at. I think it was Denver Airport, where we had to take, like, the tram. I was standing on one side of that pole. And, like, the pole is pretty close to the wall. And so I was kind of holding the pole and near the wall. And of course, there was the rest of the train car on the other side. And this woman fucking slides behind me where I was just like, there is no room to, like. It was one of the wildest things. I think she just wanted to get off really bad. But it was totally crazy. There was, like, maybe that much room to get back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a lot of drinking at the airport.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've heard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucking TGI Fridays, baby. Up top.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, I'll do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fine. I'll do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So if Andy and Sylvan's claims are true, then we know who took the monolith down. But the question still remains. Who built it in the first place? Obviously, the least serious theory is that the monolith was genuinely placed here there by aliens. But the materials, as I said, are unremarkable. And you've got to assume that they've got some. If they're. If they're here, they've got better tools and shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were like the shy aliens of the group that are here, where they're like, we want to show them something, but I don't know, just like, put it over there. We'll see. We'll see if four years later, somebody stumbles up. I don't know. I don't know. It's kind of plain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The monolith is also hollow, save for an inner frame made of plywood to help keep its shape. And then the outside is just made of aluminum sheet metal held together by rivets. I don't know. Like, I feel like a bike messenger for some reason would do this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that weird?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, just kind of a Weldy guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, a Weldy, handy prankster, a bike messenger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a million of them out there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right at the same time. And it was the pandemic. So, like, they had no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No way to express themselves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

At the same time. Some people believe that Andy and Sylvan didn't take down the monolith at all. They believe an artist built it and then Took it down themselves. Like a Banksy style artist who wanted to do their art anonymously without getting credit on the Internet for it. In today's economy, who among us? You didn't want attention and praise?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What then why would you do it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're followers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the reason. Right this moment. They want us to ask these questions of ourselves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's fair. So this leads to the question of who the artist could be. An art dealer from New York named David Zwerner thought it might be the work of an artist named John McCracken. McCracken. Don't laugh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go ahead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just usually artists have names like David Zwerner and shit like that. So McCracken comes along, it's like, what are you all about?

[Georgia Hardstark]

McCracken is known for building polished metal pieces similar to the Utah monolith. He passed away in 2011, though. So even though the monolith was placed in the desert in 2016, McCracken could have theoretically made the sculpture before 2011. His death.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, it's just. That's too hard. No, nobody's doing stuff like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And someone else could have placed it in the desert afterwards. Like after he died, he was just like, I still want to keep fucking rolling, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You want to get it while you're alive. Is that your.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just don't know. That sounds insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Since his passing, zwerner has managed McCracken's estate. So he knows his work very well. And after taking a closer look at pictures of the monolith, he actually backtracks and says he is 100% sure who. He isn't 100% sure who made it, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Told ya. Sorry we're fighting in front of you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If it wasn't John McCracken. But what I meant to say was, if it was John McCracken, he never said anything about it to his art dealer or to his family. It reminds me of the toy and bee tiles.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You guys know what I'm talking about, where there's just like random tiles in the middle of the street that say out, spell out weird stuff, messages all around the world.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The only thing is that John McCracken was at famous known artist. So it's a little bit like, what's the if that was the plan? Like, okay, so listen, I'm gonna make this monolith, and it'll just be in my studio for, I don't know, five years. I will pass, as we all must, and then four years later, go stick it in a very remote location and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The person went through with it, Even though, like, McCracken's not gonna know if it didn't happen. Like, that would be me, the assistant, being like, I'm not doing that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want to tell a story right now so bad, but it's going to take forever. I'm not going to do it. No, no, no. It won't be worth it. It's one of my boring ones.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And TikTok didn't exist yet, so how could McCracken known how famous he would have gotten? That sounded like it hurt.

[Audience Member / Guest]

It hurt so bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It sounded really famous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He played it off. Really? Oh, my God. Oxygen. You guys don't have oxygen?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, for real.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, stop it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just focus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But McCracken's son Patrick, who is as baffled as everyone else, says something interesting. He recalls a night when he was with his father in New Mexico, and his pops said, quote, we were. No sorry. And he said. The son said, quote, quote, we were standing outside looking at the stars. And he said something to the family of that he would like to leave his artwork in remote places to be discovered later. What? Like, hello, Confession?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were in Moab Desert?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, they were in New Mexico. But close. Close enough. We don't know. Nobody knows.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just like that that guy's name's Pat McCracken.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pat McCracken.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so even though the Utah Monolith's creator has yet to be named, the spectacle inspires copycats around the world. In December of 2020, another metallic prism shaped monolith appears on a hillside in Romania, three feet taller than the one found in Utah. Of course, you guys challenge, but otherwise it looks exactly the same. And it's not the only one. Between December 2020 and February 2021, more monoliths appear all over India, Iran, the Congo, Austria. All your favorite places, Bolivia. Just all over the place, Bolivia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your favorite, all European places, Bolivia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Most people believe it can't just be one person doing all of this. But there are billionaires who are bored. Yes, that's true. As we have learned from this podcast, in some cases, the originators of these copycats are known. But most of the time, each artist who installs their respective monolith tries to stay anonymous to keep the mystery alive. Which is cool. And that is the story of the Utah Monolith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amazing. Good one. Yeah, that was good. I love that you did that. Because when that happened, I was like, this is fascinating. I want to know what this is. And then, of course, I just kind of never thought about it again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I really did want to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what this podcast podcast is for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey. Hey. What's up?

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Talkspace is also in network. Talkspace Therapy and psychiatry is covered by most insurers and most insured members pay a copay of zero doll. Karen, we're on tour right now, which means I am canceling anything that matters at all. Like nothing is happening except for therapy. I would never cancel my therapy. I don't care if it's a travel day or a show day. I'm taking that therapy in the hotel room because I can't live without it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? And if you are the kind of person that, like, maybe you're new to therapy or that's something that feels intimidating to you, Talkspace can make it so that it becomes very comfortable. So it's as accessible and easy for you and affordable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As a little listener of this podcast, you'll get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com mfm and enter promo code SPACE80.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's S P A C E 80.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com mFM and enter promo code SPACE80. Goodbye. Goodbye. A sleek professional website makes you look very put together even when you're wearing sweatpants and eating cereal out of a mug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

That's squarespace.com murder code murder goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. It's spooky season, but your home should feel lived in, not haunted.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

They offer a curated range of mid century, modern, coastal and scandi inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also PA seamlessly with other article products.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Article takes great care in curating its collection, focusing solely on high quality, meaningful pieces that will stand the test of time. There's no filler. Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design, and lasting value.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Article provides fast and affordable shipping across the US and Canada. You get to choose your delivery time and they'll keep you in the loop with updates along the way. I know I've mentioned already how much I love my entryway table, but I swear to God, because the path that it's on, like you have to walk out of the front of my house to walk to the bathroom. So I pass it four times a day and I love it more every time. It's like perfectly made, stylish, all these things that I needed and wanted and it was under $100.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've seen it and I will vouch for it. It was freaking adorable. And it fits so well with your house. Yes. So if you're in the market for a beautiful new sofa, dining table, or bed, head over to article.com Goodbye. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, now I'm going to go. This is not a monolith story, but it is monolithic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What? That's improv. Tonight, I'm going to tell you this story of one of Utah's most legendary native sons. To do that, we're going to go back to the late 1800s, when the desperados of the Old west made a living robbing trains and banks. This man was a desperado and a criminal through and through. But unlike the other legendary outlaws of his day, Jesse James or Billy the Kid, this man's remembered a bit differently. He was called the Gentleman Bandit because of his reputation for keeping his robberies restrained and avoiding needless bloodshed. He's been described as witty, polite, and oddly charming. And now, 100 years later, his legendary status lives on. Because of the way he lived his life and because of the enduring mystery surrounding his death. This is the story of of Butch Cassidy and the Wild Bunch.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What? That's your guy? That's their guy, yes. Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the main sources used in the story today are Charles Lierson's 2020 book from the Monolith era. Butch Cassidy, the True Story of an American outlaw. And a 2014 PBS documentary called American Experience. One of the great shows.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kiss.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, save pbs, please. Well, do this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Save pbs. We've gotta save our national parks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, all the things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we've gotta save each other. That's the most important one. We gotta, we gotta. But the good news is there's more of us than there are of them. Ladies and gentlemen. Don't forget it. Don't forget as you doom scroll. Don't forget it. Okay, please focus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry I made your piece political. Like I'm good, but I'm definitely gonna turn this on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Karen, let's get all that in mind. Okay. This begins In April of 1866, when a baby named Robert Leroy Parker is born 200 miles south of here in Beaver, Utah, your favorite city.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know why, but the phrase a baby named like a baby named this was born. It's like we knew he was a baby. Like this guy was born, came out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With the name pinned to his grown man. That's gross. No, came out holding a little id. It's me, Robert Leroy Parker. So it was actually long ago enough that Utah was not yet a state. So technically we're in the Utah Territory when this takes place. Robert's family has lived in the Utah territory since the 1850s when both sets of his grandparents emigrated from Great Britain after converting to Mormonism. So he was. Robert was born into a very. You can cheer for Mormonism. Absolutely. You get to. Or yeah. Express yourself however you want about Mormonism. Why not have a. Let's have a moment of just making noises about Mormonism and you know, the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Person sitting next to you believes something completely different than you. That's important.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now rub elbows with that person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It'll be fun and tell them why they're wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It ends tonight, ladies and gentlemen. It ends tonight. Okay, so obviously baby Robert is born into a very religious LDS family and he is the oldest of 13 year old children. Sorry, of 13 children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a lot of 13 year olds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So irritating. When you look up from the page and you're like, I'm really going and telling the story now. It's like, no, you're not, you're not. So around 1880, when Robert's 13 years old, his family moves onto a small homestead in Circleville, Utah. Right. So circular. His dad is away for months at a time looking for good paying work. So by the time he is in his early teens, Robert is essentially the man of the House. And like his father, he works incredibly hard to provide for his family, mostly by handling horses and cattle as a ranch hand nearby. And it all comes very naturally to him. He's often described as an animal lover and he's particularly fond of horses. And when he does that work, he's taken under the wing of a cowboy named Mike Cassidy. And Cassidy teaches Robert how to handle cattle, ride horses, shoot guns, and skim livestock from big herds without anyone noticing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Doo doo doo, that's right. Yoink.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's easy. Yep. A little cattle shoplifting and just take these three holes, no big deal. This is called cattle rustling and it is illegal. But Robert idolizes Mike, who couldn't be more different than the straight laced, very religious family that Robert's grown up in. By the time Robert is 18 years old, his mentor, Mike Cassidy has skipped town, probably because he's gotten into some kind of trouble with the cows that he keeps stealing. But, but. And it doesn't seem like the two ever crossed paths again. But it's clear that Mike Cassidy has made a huge impression on his young protege. So when he turns 18, which is in the mid-1880s, Robert leaves his family in Utah and he sets his sights. What, he sets his sights on Telluride, Colorado.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're lukewarm about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And they don't really care. They were trying to be supportive at the time. It's a booming mining town with tons of money making opportunities. And Robert soon gets a job hauling or down mountainsides. It is brutal work, but he's able to find that work life balance in Telluride's many saloons, brothels, and with dancing girls. You know what I mean?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You work hard all day long and then you just. That's right, get fucked up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

KE mean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So for a young man raised in a very religious household, living in this town must have been so exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just like he's hauling 100 pounds on his back and he's like, can't wait to get to the brothel tonight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No one can.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one can stop me. So one thing seems undisputed about Robert. He is roundly remembered as charming and funny with a warm personality. The people of Telluride remember him playing the harmonica, horsing around with little kids, and going to the Friday night dances to chat up all the young women who are drawn in by his good looks and his sense of humor. Oh, can we see that first picture of him? Oh, well, hello.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Uh huh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a pretty solid kerchief there. He's gonna Take care of it. Don't worry about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he's got it. He's got it. He's gonna take it. The horse isn't going anywhere. No, not on his watch. Do they have watches? Not on his timepiece.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Author Charles Leerson reports. Robert was, quote, square jawed and sandy haired. Good looking, yet not so beautiful as to incite ridicule or jealousy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God. Like we think these standards today are rough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep, you had to be just under beautiful. The other cowboys would be jealous of you. He always seemed to possess from birth a set of standards below which he believed a gentleman should never stand. Served a meal of jackrabbit at a backcountry inn one evening, he quietly rose from the table, rode a short way off and shot a cow so that everyone in the place could have steak. He's just like, mm, I'll take care of this. I got it, I got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the cook is like, you just brought me an entire cow. Like, do you fucking understand?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I made you jackrabbit, you son of a bitch.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, we're still in the Quote, generosity was his strong suit. End quote. All that's to say, Robert is the kind of guy who makes friends very easily. On a trip to Colorado, he meets two cattle rustlers named Matt Warner and Tom McCarthy. They all become friends right away, and Robert is still a pretty innocent guy at this point. So it must have been a surprise when his two new besties casually decide that they're gonna rob a bank.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So It's June of 1889 and 23 year old Robert walks through the front doors of Telluride's San Miguel Valley bank. With Matt at his side and Tom keeping watch outside. Matt holds a gun on the teller while Robert collects the loot. In what will later become a hallmark of his hold ups, no one is injured in this event. Now, Robert is more than okay using guns during these jobs, mostly just to intimidate people into giving him what he wants. But he does not like flashy gunplay or needless bloodshed. Still, even as he does his best to keep everyone at the bank calm by assuring them that they are not in danger. Shotgun, shotgun, shotgun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stop it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're fine. People start screaming and rushing out of the bank.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they'll do that, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So local deputies and even a few minors rush to respond. None of them are trained to handle a fast moving armed robbery though. So before anyone can stop them, the trio of men make off with about $20,000, which in today's money, this is 1889.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. I'm just. I hate this. I'm gonna be wrong. It's gonna be disappointing. Are you ready?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're just working it out. It's fine to be wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

22,000.

[Karen Kilgariff]

20,000 in 1889.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In today's money would be 326.

[Karen Kilgariff]

$700,000. See?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, not even close.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I won't stop making her do it. It's so mean. So when Robert and Matt rush out of the bank with the loot, they reunite with Tom, they mount their horses, and they ride away as fast as they can out of town into the unforgiving, rugged western landscape. Robert is emerging as the clear leader of this trio. Now, with Matt later saying, quote, he had the brains of a man twice his age. You could get lost in the mountains, and he would always know the way, or he would always know the way. Or find a clever way out of a tight spot. Hot, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it also says here, and his kerchief was tied so tight around his neck, just up real high and tight. One example of the brains at work is Robert's idea that will become one of his signature moves when they do these robberies. Stashing a new team of horses at a designated spot along the getaway trail. That way, they swap out their original horses who were exhausted in the initial getaway. And these fresh horses make it. Okay. Make it. Robert and his accomplices, able to get away, make finding them nearly impossible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like a relay for horses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also the people. Oh, that's right. The rest of the paragraph is down here to catch, because if any Telluride Lao men are on their tail, their horses would be exhausted at that point. But they don't have any replacements.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's fucking smart, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it is hot. So Robert, Matt, and Tom fly down the trail toward a rugged, remote valley called Browns Park. And that's at the intersection of Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I knew that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. You've been to that intersection many a time. It's a very remote stretch of land that the PBS series describes as, quote, nothing but sagebrush, wild horses, and rattlesnakes. Cool, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your three favorites. Fortunately, Robert is such a good writer that he's able to easily and confidently lead the others through this treacherous terrain. And at this point, they've completely evaded the law. So in Browns park, they split up and go their separate ways, each with a fat stack of cash in their pockets. And this ingenious plan becomes the habit for Robert after these holdups making it even harder for the authorities to track them down. So they always get to a spot, split the cash, and it's like, bye everybody. So now Robert has one big robbery under his belt. And compared to the backbreaking, low paying labor that he's been having to do in Telluride, the high risk, high reward lifestyle of a bank robber really is appealing to him. But he isn't totally sold on the outlaw lifestyle. Maybe it's his ingrained Mormonism, but for the rest of his life. That wasn't sarcastic. I was trying to like he has, I'm saying as an ethical structure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

An ethical bank robber.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. That's why he's so cute. He's bad and good, but for the rest of his life, he will bounce back and forth between the criminal world and legitimacy. So while he is a wanted man in Colorado, he decides to seek out honest work in Wyoming. I think we do. We have. Oh, Wyoming's in the house. Insane. I thought, I truly thought no one lived there. For real. Thank you for coming. That's nice. There's nothing else going on, right? Just like, let's go over there. But to do this honest work in Wyoming. But to do this, this, he'll have to assume a new identity. And this is when Robert Leroy Parker borrows Cassidy from his old mentor, Mike Cassidy. And according to the lore, after a short stint working in a Wyoming butcher shop, he picks up the nickname Butch. Therefore, I get it, Butch Cassidy is born.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. So I mean, is it, did he nickname himself?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, call me Butch. And everyone else in the butcher shop like, no, no, you just started working here. Okay. So from this point on, Butch is doing what Butch does best, which is working with horses while charming and befriending everyone he meets. And this includes a 20 year old ranch hand named Elzy Lay. He's only a few years younger than Butch and the two will remain close friends. At this point, Butch is still trying to live the this straight and narrow life. But before long, he goes back to stealing livestock. Once you get a taste of stealing a cow, it is fucking impossible not to do it again. They're so dumb. Then in 1894, when he's in his late 20s, he's caught and handed two years hard labor in a Wyoming prison. Here's the mug shot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, all right, let's see. Just a little couple units on the forehead would raise those brows up a little, you know what I'm saying? Raise it up. This is where I'd raise it up. And then if you put a little in those, you could just soften those. That jawline just a tad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Serious TMJ issue. We get a little Botox right in here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A little talks right there. A couple units. Not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I think he kind of looks like. And it's not supposed to be an insult. A lost Kelsey brother, doesn't he? A little bit. Yeah. Yeah, he's the younger one that can't hold a job down ever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he's the one. Yeah. He's, like, not gonna be in the wedding.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, you'll be in the audience. But we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're invited, Rusty. You're invited.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're gonna put you at table 38. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody give him a microphone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I remember when these two started dating. No, no, no, no, no. That'd be a funny podcast of people reenacting the worst speeches they've heard at weddings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Trademarked. Trademarked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's our idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exact. Coming in. Coming.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't you dare.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Coming to. Exactly right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Poor man's podcast. Trademark right there. Okay, so because he is Butch Cassidy, he's paroled six months early for being a model prisoner. The world loves this man. And then he heads back to Browns Park. He reconnects with his old buddy Elzie, and. And when he gets there, he sees that this remote area has now become a refuge for drifters, outlaws and desperados. And of course, Butch befriends all of them. Guys like Ben Tall, Texan, Kilpatrick, no relation. George Flatnose Curry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Harvey Kid Curry. Logan, not to be mistaken for George Flat Nose Curry. And of course, the outlaw sisters, Anne and Josie Bassett. Cool, right? I call those guys for a future story. Don't you dare.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I won't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Josie would later describe Butch as, quote, the most dashing and handsome man I have ever seen. Butch becomes the epicenter of this loose network of a dozen or so thieves who drift in and out of Brown's park park and other notorious hideaways like Wyoming's Hole in the Wall. That's right. The manager of Hole in the Wall is here tonight. Thank you so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He called in sick today. Don't give him away. Shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll edit that part out, don't worry. You got you covered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Remember the chick who went to the Taylor Swift concert with a blanket over her head because she called in sick to go and they interviewed her and she did. She didn't want her co workers and boss finding out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Remember that couple that was cheating on their husbands and wives at the Coldplay concert?

[Georgia Hardstark]

They should have put a fucking blanket on their goddamn.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They just needed a blanket for their makeout. So this group of people isn't a formal gang. There's no rules. Most of them don't share Butch's code of nonviolence. In particular, Kid Curry is notoriously brutal. He is known to go out of his way to shoot people during holdups, particularly lawmen. So this is a very. We'll call fluid group. That was Marin's word, very fluid group, with people constantly coming and going. But every so often, when they find themselves in Butch's orbit, they team up with him for a job or two. They see Butch as a smart, fair and intentional leader who organizes clean jobs. So Butch and this rotating cast of accomplices soon become known as Butch Cassidy and the Wild Bunch. And. Oh, wait, Sorry. It's too early for the picture.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't give it away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I fucking truly do love a Steve Harvey like. And here it is. I love a throw to. Let's take a look. Let's see what the picture is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Very powerful feeling. Yeah, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is. So the Wild Bunches. First, a big. We can't talk now. I'm trying to tell this fucking story. It's been out here for two hours. The Wild Bunch's first big headline making robbery comes In April of 1897 in Castlegate, Utah, which is now a ghost town. Sorry about that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, you're lying. Unless you're a ghost.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, we have to have you do a hometown. So back then, Castlegate was a thriving mining town. Or it had a thriving mine. And Butch knows that payroll gets delivered every two weeks by wagon, in big bags, by delivery men on set schedules. And the story goes that Butch and Elzie confront the mine's paymaster. He's the guy in charge of paying everyone. They stick the barrel of a gun into his belly. And they make off with the mine's entire payroll in broad daylight. And historians disagree on how much is taken, but it's reported to be as much as $8,000, which in today's money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Would be, what, worth More than $127,000.

[Karen Kilgariff]

$250,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were both wrong. I heard you. We were wrong. This isn't Price is Right. No help from the. It's really.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's hard not to guess because you're just like, I can do this crazy backwards math.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've been doing it for ten fucking years, and I've gotten it right once.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So as the duo rushes out with the loot, Elsie's getaway horse Breaks loose and dashes off into a crowd of miners who have already gathered to collect their pay. So they have just stolen it. Now they're trying to get away. And the guys whose money it is are like, hold on a second. What's going on here? So, according to writer Charles Leerson, Butch then. So basically, Elzie's getaway horse is gone. So he. So Butch jumps off his own horse so that Elsie can get on his horse, and he then runs. And basically Lierson says, quote, what happened next resembled an equestrian stunt that you might see in Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show. Butch in all out sprint, swung deftly abroad the running horse. Then as four or five riflemen fired at them from the roof of the mine. The roof of the mine. That's the ground, right? I'm no expert. I. I will not try to contradict Charles Leerson, who is literally an expert on this topic. Still, in the quote, the two amigos disappeared into a cloud of dust. So kind of like what you were just. What was that kind of rope stuff you were talking about earlier?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Slacklining.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think they. He slacklined up onto this horse and got away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Definitely. Right. And from then on, it was the truth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Next, they swap their horses out for a fresh team that has been placed along the getaway trail. They take off for their chosen hideaway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is Robbers Roost, which call it something else.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like, kind of a giveaway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're gonna go hide, and all the dishonest guys are over here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Weird rider.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Robert's Roost. Go. Because I had that. Here it is. Robbers Roost here in Utah. Sorry, I just wanted to be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You guys wanted to see a live podcast.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you're seeing a live podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is everything that gets edited for the regular show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, there it is. I got it. When they arrive, they split up. They go their separate ways until the heat from this robbery dies down. And this is another thing that differentiates Bushcat. Why Bush Ken's dancing ass kid. My favorite robber number one robber, Bush Kest. Thank you. I thank you. I thank you. And drunk Karen thanks you too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wherever she may be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wherever. So Butch doesn't. Basically, he doesn't pull off robberies very often. Instead, he puts together a job, and then he'll do it, and then go back to, like, a year of normal work and just living legitimately before getting the gang back together and then doing another robbery. And his robberies should make him a rich man, especially in the old west, where living is probably relatively cheap. But Again, Charles Leerson writes that Butch probably had a pretty bad gambling habit because it's hard to imagine any other way he could lose thousands of dollars over the course of several months.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit. Yeah. All right. And he's not very good at card games, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, maybe I'll get good this time. $1,000. So in 1899, which is two years after the mine heist, Butch's dear friend Elzie is involved in a bloody, botched train robbery that ends in his arrest in Folsom, New Mexico. So with Butch's right hand, really? With Butch's right hand man now in prison, a spot opens up for a new outlaw to take his place. And that's exactly what happens when Butch meets Harry Alonzo Longabaugh, AKA the Sundance Kid. Oh, he was also nicknamed just Sundance, and it was because he served a prison stint in Sundance, Wyoming. That's what he's named after.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So how many people are named that, then? Just him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just him. He was the best one there. He just kicked ass at being in prison in Wyoming. He was literally the only one there. So Harry's in his early 30s, about the same age as Butch. And he's known to be calm under pressure, a very patient sharpshooter and someone whose steady nerves balance out Butch's quick mind. So with Butch still acting as the ringleader and Sundance now at his side, the Wild Bunch carry out a string of robberies across Utah, Wyoming, and Idaho. And we have a picture of the Wild Bunch. So, hi. Here they are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So left to right, sitting, we've got. That's the Sundance Kid on the left with the mustache that looks like Vince Averill. And then the tall Texan is in the middle. And then that's Butch Cassidy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On the right, seated. Sorry. And then standing back there, we've got Will Carver. And that's the Vicious. It's not Harry Shearer from Spinal Tap. That's the vicious Kid Curry back there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What a fine bunch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look at them. They're like, you know what? Let's stop robbing people and take a gorgeous photo of ourselves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's get chairs from all eras and put them in the photo and sit on them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you have anything clawfoot? No, we have rattan. Oh, wait, we do have a clawfoot. Hold on. Thank you. The Utah State Historical Society, whose all rights are reserved on the this incredible history. Where am I now? Okay, so their most famous robbery comes In June of 1899, when they target a Union Pacific train as it passes through Wilcox, Wyoming, which is not far from their Hole in the Wall hideout. Butch carefully plots out this stick up, studying train schedules and cargo loads to figure out just when the next payroll shipment will be. He targets the Union Pacific's Overland Flyer, a passenger train also carrying mail and express shipments, including Wells Fargo strong boxes full of cash and valuables. So in the middle of the night, it's around 2:15am on June 2, 1899. The Wild Bunch flags down this train by waving a red lantern, which is the sign to an engineer that there's trouble ahead. When the train grinds to a halt. The train crew are ambushed and ordered off the train at gunpoint, and Butch and his gang climb aboard. Frightened passengers offer up any valuables that they have on them. But according to legend, Butch Cassidy refuses to take anything from these people. He just wants the bank's money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so good. From here, they detach the expression express car where the safe is kept, and they move it up the tracks away from the passenger cars.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the whole train car?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. They're like, this is where all the money is. But no one can carry this safe, so let's just get it over here. So basically, they do that so that no brave passengers will try to interfere and maybe to keep them safe. Because then the gang ignites dynamite to blow the safe open. But the explosion turns out to be so powerful that it not only destroys most of the train car, it blows the safe open and money flies everywhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we do have a still of the train car.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Boom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, Someone got a little happy with whatever dynamite is made out of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. They're like, we just put one, put two in, just in case. Put two in. But what I love is that was one of the early versions of the money grab machine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you're on that train and you're like, look at all these crazy bills. Okay. Anyway, the gang gets away with somewhere between, sorry, 30 and $50,000, which, 3751 to $2 million today is a huge amount of money. So as you know, we always search the Gmail in case somebody, Martorino, has any kind of a connection to a story like this. Are you here tonight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's that. That's that mouse that keeps running through this. Say your name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Vicky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Vicki.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nikki. Nikki.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nikki. Vicki or Mickey. Great. You know what, Vicki? Mickey. Mickey. This one's on me. I should have never started it. Here's the email we found. It says it's a little long, but it's worth it. It says. Hi everyone. I never thought that I would have a good story to share with you. That was until just recently when my mom decided to to spill the tea on some family secrets. To preface, I was born and raised in Utah as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. And then in parentheses it says the Mormon Church. Thanks so much. And my family history is the very stereotypical Utah Mormon saga where our ancestors, after having left Europe, also had to flee from New York to the west because they were persecuted for their beliefs and definitely not because they were polygamists who were trying to marry everyone's daughter. Thank you for. Thank you for clarifying. Okay. Anyways, if that wasn't already some crazy family history, that was Only true for 3/4 of my great grand grandparents because my paternal great grandfather is half Native American from the Shoshone tribe. As it turns out, his father was one of the OG Mormon colonizers who apparently was real tight with Joseph Smith and was also a polygamist. At some point during the colonization of Utah, my great great grandfather and then it says in quotes, found two native children, a boy and a girl, abandoned on the side of the road, rescued them, again in quotes, too many quotes. And naturally decided to take the girl as one of his wives. Oh, this was the story I was told. However, now that I'm older, it seems like there are some parts that were sugar coated to cover up what really happened between colonizers and Native American tribes. Anyways, this is when my mom decided to tell me that there's a little more to this story. Because I guess if you were already living your life on the outside of the law, you might as well go 100% and be a safe house for Butch Cassidy and his gang. Oh shit, that's right. Apparently my greatest great grandfather was one of Butch Cassidy's alliances in Utah and would provide him a safe hideaway whenever he was in town. Wow. I mean, if you already know that the law is not on your side from all the polygamy stuff, why not take a hefty payout of stolen gold bars from one of the most notorious bank robbers of the wild Wild west and hide them in your household whenever they decide to rob the next town over? So this her great great grandfather stashed the loot for them. Yeah, yeah, we really don't talk about Grandpa's history in our family. I always thought that it was because a lot of people in Utah would not be receptive to a biracial illegal marriage, but no, it's because I have a family history that someone could make a movie about. In fact, they did. It's called Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Stay sexy. And if you ever decide to rob a bank via old fashioned steam engine, know that the Mormons got your back. Sincerely, Mikaela.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Right? So good. So good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so after this train robbery, of course, both Union Pacific and Wells Fargo are irate. They dispatch countless lawmen and private detectives like the Pinkertons throughout the west to hunt down Butch Cassidy and the Wild Bunch. And we've got a wanted poster here. That's Sundance up on top, okay? And it says Camilla Hanks underneath this picture.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That can't be right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Tom Hanks's aunt. His great aunt, twice removed. Not an effective wanted poster, I would think.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, too tiny. The writing's too tiny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right up there with your weird little glasses. Your old west glasses, your monocle. Just the one for your one eye. Gang members like the sadistic Kid Curry are soon caught. But Butch and Sundance use their charm and manners to evade authorities. They're clean shaven, well dressed, and exceedingly polite. And they wear this likeability as their armor. Butch and Sundance roll into towns where wanted posters with their faces on them are plastered on walls and windows. Yet they are not captured. Sometimes locals even feed and house the duo or even help them evade the law by misleading officers. Everyone's in on this with them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He went that away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He went that away. After a while, it's clear that if they stay in the States, they'll be on the run forever. So Butch and Sundance decide it's time to head South. In 1901, when they're both in their mid-30s, they set sail to South America, eventually landing in Southern Argentina. Sundance has a girlfriend named Etta Place who comes with them. The three of them move onto a ranch under fake names, and they raise cattle and horses. And by all accounts, they live a very quiet life. And they're well liked by their neighbors everywhere they go. They live together for a few years as Butch once again tries to earn his living by honest means. Then, around 1905, it all changes. We don't know exactly what happens with Etta or where she winds up, but we do know that Butch and Sunday sell the ranch and return once again to their outlaw ways. One last job. They rob banks and trains in Argentina and Chile. And when they draw too much heat, they head to Bolivia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because there were a bunch of places I didn't name in that list. And I just hit Bolivia just for the hell of it. That's fucking weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Remember Bolivia for later. We don't know why either. In November of 1908, Butch and Sundance holed up a courier transporting payroll to a mine in San Vicente. Bolivia. Sorry. A few days later, Bolivian soldiers and police surround the two men in a small house and a gunfight breaks out that lasts for hours. Then, around 2am Witnesses say that the shooting stops and a final burst of gunfire comes as two rogue shots are heard inside the house. Two men said to be Butch and Sundance are found shot to death inside. They are both around 40 years old. The official Bolivian report suggests that Sundance was so badly wounded in this shootout that Butch shot him in a mercy killing and then turned the gun on himself. But the thing is, the two men killed in Bolivia that day have never been conclusively identified. Not in photos, fingerprints, or by family members identifying them. And that's kept historians debating for a century whether or not these men truly were Butch and Sundance. Their bodies are said to be buried together. Those bodies are said to be buried together in an unmarked grave. But several descendants of Butch Cassidy have claimed that years after this shootout, Butch came back to Utah and or Wyoming and lived discreetly under aliases. Stories say the Butch even visited relatives in the 1920s and 30s, telling tales of South America, never fully admitting his past crimes. Some claim that he died in Washington State in the late 30s or early 40s, but none of these rumors also have ever been confirmed. As for Sundance, some say he died in South America much later than 1908, but his records are even sketchier. Some suspect that his girlfriend Etta later left for the US that year and then later reunited with him after his presumed death. And I swear to God, this is almost done. In the 1990s, researchers exhumed the graves where the men are buried in San Vicente to try to conclusively link DNA samples with Butch and Sundance's known descendants. But the DNA does not match.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Really?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Leading some historians to believe that the Bolivian authorities misidentified the men shot and killed that day, and that once again, Butch and Sundance escaped and lived out the rest of their lives under new names.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fun, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To this day, Butch Cassidy's reputation as the Gentleman Bandit has turned him into an American folk hero, as has the lingering mystery around his and Sundance's death. And that reputation has only been Strengthened by the 1969 film Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. You know what's so nice?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Huh?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's really nice, the idea that Paul Newman and Robert Redford are together again. Isn't it as sad as it is? They're so drunk in heaven right now, or wherever their chosen place might be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

On Pappy Van Winkle. Just fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just fucking it up. When they shot. They shot Towering Inferno. I'm talking when they shot Towering Inferno in San Francisco, my uncle Mike, who was a fireman, had to go down to the set, and he said that Paul Newman was sitting in a director's chair and he had a case of Budweiser next to him. And my Uncle Mike, he was like, he's my favorite actor. Now we're a Budweiser family, okay? Butch and Sundance are portrayed in that movie as incredibly handsome and cunning rebels. But while the film has a conclusive ending, with Butch and Sundance dying in that shootout in Bolivia, this is one of those stories where the truth is stranger than fiction. We'll almost certainly never know what really happened to Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid in real life, which is perfectly fitting for men so stiff, steeped in Old west legend and lore. And that is the story of Utah native Butch Cassidy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Great job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. That was a good one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you nailed that one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was. That was fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was fun times. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do we have time for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's Do It, Hometown? Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Oh, here's Vince with the microphone. Look at him. My husband Vince, everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi, Chris. How are we doing? How we doing? Real good. Don't forget the hot dog. Okay, thank you. Yeah, I don't know. I went to that fan convention today. Oh, how was it? Real cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Positive vibes over there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A lot of costumes. They even had their own little cosplay repair station with some sewing machines and people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no. That's so supportive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was a good vibe. I will be right over there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On our drive over here, I saw two, if not three, Poison Ivies walking down the street together.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've spotted a couple Beetlejuices this trip.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I saw one person in a full body leotard with just a big cardboard TV on their head. And I was like, yeah, you've kind of summed it all up right there. She's like, I'm entertainment. That's me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's true. Tell them about what this is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys know the rules. But this is the hometown part, where we want somebody to come up and tell us their hometown. And since we're here in Salt Lake City, it'd be great if it was local somewhere nearby. Definitely in the state of Utah. If you come up here talking about Florida. Bad things are going to happen too. Like they happen to Katie on night one in Denver. It was very ugly. The shouting and the screaming were insane. So just do your best. If you're gonna put your hand up, make sure that's what's happening. You can't be so drunk that you can't tell your own story. Please make sure it has a beginning, middle and end. You do not have to be funny. We just wanna hear your hometown. And with that, Georgia's randomly going to pick a person from the audience right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, let me see. Don't point at someone you don't know. Cause I'm gonna blame you if the story sucks. Yeah, yeah, right there. Stand with the white. Yes. Yeah, yeah. The two.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, they're like, I don't have one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know how to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Her. Yes. Come on up. Look that way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm gonna.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My Spanx are writing. Right. Okay. Hi. Were you serious? You have one? One?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Audience Member / Guest]

I'm not going to be weird about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She said I'm not going to be weird about it. What's your name?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's your name? My name is Megan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Megan. Megan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You get your own mic. Guys, say hi to Megan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Megan.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Hi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hold it to your. Huh? Yeah. Where are you from?

[Audience Member / Guest]

I don't want to say because you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Said the Florida thing. God damn you, Megan. God damn me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can be from anywhere.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Okay, good, then. I'm from Portland, Oregon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, okay.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Yes. And I've lived. I lived here in Layton, Utah for about 14 years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Audience Member / Guest]

So it's hometown.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're fine. That's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're fine.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Yes. Now what? So the hometown.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the hometown is.

[Audience Member / Guest]

So I was called on a mission for my church and I said, what church? You're never gonna guess. Yeah, nobody knows about it. It's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Mormon Church.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love your commercials.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Yeah, yeah, we are family. So I served on Temple Square in Salt Lake City, Utah, and I got called when I was in at the University of Oregon. Anyway, as a missionary. Oh my gosh. My brain is blamed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Does this happen?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how it is up here.

[Audience Member / Guest]

It's terrifying. They're all looking and you can't see.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're feeling it.

[Audience Member / Guest]

You're great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so.

[Audience Member / Guest]

So as a missionary on Temple Square, you teach people about the buildings and the history of Salt Lake and the pioneers. As such, we meet lots of people. And one of the people that I met was a man named Felix. And Felix, he had Some probably mental health issues, but he chose favorites of the Temple Square missionaries. And then he whittled favorites down and I became a favorite and he would. He found out where we lived and he followed us home one night and waited. So that's part one, part two. I swear this all comes together. Okay, this is the middle. After the beginning. I don't trust me. So thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Audience Member / Guest]

So in the middle, where were we? Felix?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Audience Member / Guest]

In the middle, there was a actual crime that happened. A woman named Lori Hacking went missing. And I think you guys talked about this one time in your podcast. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're welcome.

[Audience Member / Guest]

I listen to you guys going to sleep at night. I'm not lying. My husband thinks I'm psycho. Anyway, breathe. Okay, so Lori Hacking disappears and she disappeared from a park. Well, her husband said that she was running in a park where we used to run every morning. So we. Lots of precautions were taken. Extra security. We weren't allowed to run in that park anymore for a while. So while this was all going on and we didn't know what had happened to Lori, one night we got a knock at the door and my companion, my missionary companion, was from Finland. She went to answer the door and there was a security guard. Do you not like Finland?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I love it. I just. It seemed like she laughed. It seemed like you were lying for a second. Sorry. I wish I was.

[Audience Member / Guest]

I'm not. Okay, so Sister Mustanen from Finland answered the door at 3am and it was a security guard. And he was letting us know that there was a broken window in our apartment basement. And so he needed to come in and check out to make sure everything was fine. Yes, yes. My murderino brain was saying, don't let him in, but I was upstairs and still asleep. But she let him in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's from Finland.

[Audience Member / Guest]

She's from Finland. She didn't know. Yeah, there's not crime there, I think. Anyway, so she let him in and he, spoiler, was not security. But he did have a phone cord, like an old school curly phone cord taped to his ear. And he kept talking to his microphone. That was really just a bracelet made out of tinfoil. Okay. But he had a trench coat on. And so we called. We called security. I mean the real ones with the sirens.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Oh yeah. Police.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Police inspector. Gadgets that people from Finland don't know aren't real.

[Audience Member / Guest]

I really wish he would have had the fedora too. He did not. Anyway, so they. Temple Square security had actually seen him on cameras before and they knew him. There were posters of him all over. So they were able to come and apprehend him. But because of this, I was moved to a different apartment pretty quickly. And as part of this new assignment, I swear, this is the end. It's wrapping together. As part of this new assignment, we were invited to sing as a. As a group for a special memorial service that is held every December 6th in the Salt Lake City Cemetery. There's a. Someone loves that cemetery. There is a Christmas box angel statue there. And people. Oh, my gosh. The vigil is for parents who've lost children. So we sang at that vigil and at the vigil, the guest speaker that at that time was Laurie Hacking's parents, because at that time they had found her. We learned what had happened to her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Her.

[Audience Member / Guest]

And it was devastating, but very. They spoke so eloquently about the process of grief, and it was beautiful. And then fast forward many, many years later, we now have a Christmas box angel in the same cemetery where my three babies are buried. And it's very special for us. So true crime, full circle. The end.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. Amazing. Amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Megan, everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Megan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Megan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, Megan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You won the stress hot dog.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But we should have given it to her beforehand, probably.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. Oh, my God. That was a perfect hometown. A perfect hometown.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Well, Utah, we've done it, city. We did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you guys for being so supportive for so long. We are in awe of the way you guys like us. I don't know, it's weird, but we appreciate it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we just appreciate you've given us very beautiful lives. And maybe you don't know that, but it is true. And we're so eternally grateful for the insanity of this podcast inside and the specificity of this podcast and the way that you guys have built a community for yourselves. And we will need that community going forward in these fucked up times. Please love each other, please help each other, and stay sexy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you, Salt Lake City.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been an Exactly Right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our researchers are Marin McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Follow the show on Instagram at My favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to My favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now you can watch us on exactly right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe goodbye. It's Cybersecurity Awareness Month. LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up Multi Factor authentication, report scams and update your software. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and fixes identity theft guaranteed or your money back. Start your protection today with a 30 day free trial at LifeLock.com use promo code NEWS terms apply. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming [e-mail] dominate every match with next level level speed, seamless streaming and performance that won't quit, so you.

[Audience Member / Guest]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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