508 - Live at Paramount Theatre (Oakland Night 2)

Summary

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My Favorite Murder Ep. 508 – Live at Paramount Theatre (Oakland Night 2)

Date: November 27, 2025
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark

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Overview

Episode 508 of My Favorite Murder brings listeners to Night 2 at Oakland’s Paramount Theatre. In their signature blend of true crime, comedy, and personal stories, Karen and Georgia welcome a lively Bay Area crowd, share tales from their tour life, and dive into peculiar and mysterious crimes—one from local California history, another about a notorious conman. The night wraps up with a powerful hometown story from the audience.

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Show Highlights

Warm Oakland Welcome, Tour Banter, and Local Color

[01:54 – 08:42]

• Karen and Georgia are met with huge, raucous support from Oakland fans, whom they thank for waiting six years for their return (“Thank you so much for waiting six years for us”—Karen, [08:52]).
• The hosts riff on vintage shopping in San Francisco, memories of Upper Haight, and the eccentricities of Bay Area life now versus their youth:

  "Are the rich kids from Marin still pretending they're punks and sitting on the street asking you for money? ... And they'd get up and get into a Saab and drive away and just be like, shit, must be nice." — Karen [05:15–05:45]

• They joke about show business rituals (Karen’s gum), fashion mishaps on tour (remembering a bra), and the unexplained presence of slippers in dressing rooms.
• Audience participation is immediate: a sign proclaims, “I washed my bangs in the sink for this!” [02:09]
• Special moments, like finding a former Hot Dog on a Stick employee in the audience, spur classic Karen stand-up nostalgia [13:02–14:26].
• Tour life is candidly described, from backstage quirks to local snacks (Japanese Kit Kats, anyone?).

Reflections on Time, Age, and Their Audience

[09:02 – 10:53]

• Karen jokes about how the time has flown since their last Oakland appearance:

  "Last time we played here, my niece Nora did a little cartwheel on stage... She was nine... Now she just started college. So think about how much closer to death you are now."—Karen [09:09–09:27]

• The hosts riff about aging, menopause, foundation garments, and interacting with bemused theater staff and audience.

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Main Stories

Story 1: The Disappearance and Death of Edith Irene Wolfskill

Told by Georgia | [20:13 – 51:40]

Background

• Edith came from the affluent Wolfskill family—early settlers and ranchers who helped shape California’s agricultural wealth.
• As a young woman, Edith was a society beauty (“her wide eyes, her long, rich brown hair, and fascinating form, aka she stacked.” —Georgia [27:10]) but returned from finishing school in Europe a changed, increasingly eccentric person.

Eccentric Behavior and Family’s Response

• Edith became fixated on religious rituals (“kneels in the streets of San Francisco and prays loudly... announces herself to be the Empress of the World…”—Georgia [29:06–29:21]).
• Her family commits her to psychiatric institutions; she often wanders away but is always found.

The Disappearance (1929)

• At age 57, Edith left for her daily hike near her Fairfield farmhouse and vanished.
• A county-wide search ensues—hundreds scour the land, a reward is offered, but she’s not found until 2 months later, when a neighbor’s son finds her decomposed body in a creek bed searched many prior times.
• The circumstances are mysterious: not wearing her original outfit, instead in men’s overalls, with a cryptic handwritten note found in her pocket.

  “Do not give anything. Do not show sympathy. Do not speak to any nurse. Do not speak magic. Walk out....” — Georgia [46:13]

Theories & The Investigation

• Was it foul play? Did she die naturally and the body discovered late? Did someone move her?
• Signs suggest she might have lived in a shack nearby before dying—food scraps and religious phrases on cabin walls.
• The autopsy revealed a blood clot in her brain but no direct evidence of murder.
• The official verdict: Cause unknown.

Aftermath

• Edith’s brothers, embroiled in a “Succession”-style estate feud, are left without closure but do set up a trust for her portion of the millions.
• Georgia summarizes:

  “That’s the story of the unexplained disappearance and death of Edith Irene Wolfskill, the Empress of the World.” [51:40]

• Laughter, side commentary, and local references (orchards vs. orchids) keep the tone unexpectedly lighthearted.

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Story 2: The “College Con Man” James Hogue

Told by Karen | [55:17 – 90:52]

Introduction

• Karen introduces a wild, winding tale about James Hogue, a serial imposter, chronicled notably in The New Yorker (“The Runner”).
• Hogue started as a gifted Kansas runner, but his ego and inability to accept being merely good set him on a path of deception.

Early Ambitions, Downfall, and Reinvention

• Hogue’s athletic dreams unravel in college—at University of Wyoming and UT Austin, he’s never the best.

  “You’re in high school and you’re like, God, I’m so good at this thing. And then... you’re fucking terrible at everything.” — Karen [63:04]

• After law troubles, he drops out. At 25, he resurfaces as a “17-year-old orphan” at Palo Alto High, wins major races, raising suspicions because he “looks a bit older.” [67:10–68:09]

The Pattern of Scams

• Outed by a journalist, Hogue flees, but this launches a career of cons:
  • He poses as a Stanford-credentialed Ph.D. at a Vail training camp.
  • He gets caught after burglarizing his roommate’s bike shop and using stolen goods.

The Ivy League Scam: Alexi Santana at Princeton

• Using the alias “Alexi Santana,” Hogue earns admission (and a scholarship) to Princeton by concocting a tale of backwoods self-education and tragedy, despite no high school transcript [57:35].

  • “He claims that he’s never once set foot in a school and that he’s entirely self-taught... yet he has higher-than-average SAT scores.” — Karen [57:35–57:57]

• Hogue attends as a 29-year-old freshman, fools classmates and faculty, even competes in collegiate track.

Caught & Aftermath

• A fellow runner recognizes him at a meet; the saga is exposed and Hogue is arrested mid-class at Princeton [80:36].
• Despite charges, he continues fake jobs and crimes—stealing gems at Harvard, returning to Princeton under more aliases, and always “running.”
  • The highlight: arrested in Telluride after a woman finds her stolen throw pillows on his (Hogue’s) couch [84:35].
  • Later, he’s caught living in makeshift, camouflaged mountain shacks and selling stolen goods on eBay.

Analysis & Legacy

• Hogue emerges as a folk anti-hero—a “Gatsby brought low” as documentary filmmakers and English teachers compare him to classic American hustlers.

  “He did not seem malicious, but he did paint himself as a victim of the government and of social hierarchy and class structures.” — Karen, quoting law enforcement [89:19]

“Love a scammer, but always have fun with scammers—your own scammer.” —Georgia [90:52]

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Hometown Story: Sydney’s Mother, Survivor and Hero

[92:13 – 99:16]

• Audience member Sydney from Phoenix shares a gripping two-part story of her mother, who—
  • At 17, in Lake Tahoe (1970s), was abducted, assaulted, and managed to gain her attacker’s trust to escape, though the perpetrator was never caught.
  • Years later, in LA, another man attempted to abduct her. This time, her mother fought back and escaped.
  • The attacker was apprehended and imprisoned for life, thanks to Sydney’s mom’s bravery.
• Sydney expresses deep gratitude for her mother’s strength and influence.

  “It’s not going to happen again. That’s right.” —Sydney & Karen [99:09–99:11]

  “Look what you got.... Oh, so worth it.” —Georgia, awarding the guest [99:19]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Someone has a sign that said I washed my bangs in the sink for this. Thank you." — Georgia [02:09]
• "Can a bitch get a turkey sandwich?" — Karen [06:30]
• "We do not think murder is funny. We just think we're funny." — Karen [15:57]
• On aging and time: “So think about how much closer to death you are now.” — Karen [09:27]
• “Aristocracy… I was trying to hit that stacked line joke, and so I didn’t.” — Georgia [27:20]
• “He looks like James Spader. And he does look like an 80s teenager. Like movie teenager.” — Georgia on James Hogue’s high school photo [72:12]
• “He impersonated a murderino.” — Karen fantasizing about Hogue showing up at their shows [88:41]
• “Always have fun with scammers. Your own scammer.” — Georgia [90:52]

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Timeline of Main Segments

• Welcome & Tour Anecdotes: 01:54 – 16:00
• Explanation of Show & Humor: 15:57 – 17:32
• Main Story 1 (Edith Irene Wolfskill): 20:13 – 51:40
• Main Story 2 (James Hogue): 55:17 – 90:52
• Hometown Story (Sydney): 93:07 – 99:16

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Tone & Audience Engagement

The episode is lively, uproarious, and unrehearsed—Karen and Georgia riff, banter, and heckle each other, the audience, and themselves while weaving in true crime stories with empathy and sharp, self-aware humor. Interactivity is strong: audience signs, local references, and the heartfelt hometown story all serve to make this live taping especially dynamic and community-driven.

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For New Listeners

This episode showcases My Favorite Murder’s best strengths: blending serious stories with comic relief, highlighting both notorious and little-known crimes, and fostering genuine connection with listeners both in the room and at home. You’ll leave entertained, occasionally moved—and possibly with a new appreciation for running, conmen, and the quest for a turkey sandwich in the Bay Area.

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Stay sexy and don’t get murdered!

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Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

What's up, oakland?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was the most. That was the most you guys won.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someone has a sign that said I washed my bangs in the sink for this. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Honored.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good job. Thank you this side of the audience for letting me yell at you. What a way to start. What a way to start.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Woo. It's just foggy in here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We definitely are going to have serious ear canal damage after this tour. It's so funny. We really appreciate it. We do, we do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We love clapping and screaming at us. Did you just put your gum out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, right before we started, I had it still in my mouth. That's my old trick. It's my old show business trick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were about to come out and Karen was like, oh, fuck, I should probably get this gum out of my mouth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was slowly chewing gum right, right on the edge of the stage. Very unprofessional. Georgia, what did you do today in the Bay Area? Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. Yes. I went vintage shopping. Of course. Le Upper hate. Is that right? Is the place to be. I went to a place called Relic. That was amazing. And I walked in there and I don't dress like this in my day to day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I walk in and they're like, oh, let's not let this girl try anything on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And someone followed right behind you the Whole time. You shocked?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But then, you know, it went fine when I was like, I was, I don't know, normal, I guess. You acted normal. I acted normal.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Good, good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that place was amazing. We went to a couple other places. We went to a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you remember the name?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was Vince.

[Guest or Audience Member]

What was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was something Monkey. Mad Dog. Mad Dog. Mad Dog. It was called Mad Dog. Oh, the Mad Dog and the Fog.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Mad Dog and the Fog. I've fallen down there many a time. Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they were doing the best thing because, you know, like when you scroll all day and you hear, you know, snippets of songs, like 5 seconds of songs by heart and. And then suddenly the real song starts playing and you're like, holy shit. And they just kept playing fucking Instagram songs with the whole thing and I was singing along and mouthing them to Vince and being really annoying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At the Mad Dog in the Fog.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And then on the ride home, we decided, we're going to move to San Francisco.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh huh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But she does this a lot. She does this a lot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was sunny and we were day drunk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, I mean, the life in this town. Truly the life in this town.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What'd you do today?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I'm shocked that the upper. I just am trying to still process the upper Hate coming all the way around. Let's see, I left in 94, so it's back, baby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's fucking cool now, you guys. It is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It only took 35 years or whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was a little gnarly when I lived here for sure. But it's, it's hit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the place to be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And is there a Banana Republic?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That shit's gone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't see any of that shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So. Capitalism.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are the rich kids from Marin still pretending they're punks and sitting on the street asking you for money?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which literally was like, so, ooh, Karen's inciting a riot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't give a shit, man. I had two full time jobs when I lived in the Upper Haight. I had to pay for that broom closet of a room I lived in. And those kids would like be like, hey, can I have a dollar? And I'd be like, no. And they'd get up and get into a sob and drive away and just be like, shit, must be nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And look at you now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look at me having the last laugh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's one person sitting in the audience crying, yeah, that was me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm from Marin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This deeply hurts me and my rich feelings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And what did you do today?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, well, we went into the Ferry building.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we looked around. All I wanted was a turkey sandwich. You cannot get one there. You can't. You can have a muffuletta. Muffuletta. If you want to. You can have your own whole charcuterie board built, custom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But they won't serve turkey. They just. They just refuse.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can't just get a fucking. Can a bitch get a fucking turkey sandwich?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can a bitch get a turkey sandwich? But we did. There's a really good store with some new things and some old things. Right. It's for the people who don't want to go thrift store shopping. You do it for me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You got me some Kit Kats from Japan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was a candy store. Because if there is a candy store that in any way has set up some plexiglass containers with scoops, I'm in there with my plastic bag. It's as if I think I have to support this mom and pop business. I don't care if it's full on corporation. I don't care. But I was going in there like, you don't need that. You don't need that. And then they have this little bag that said assorted Kit Kats from Japan. And I was like, well, I have to get that for Georgia. So I did.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't get you anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry. But you know what I did get?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so you know how I have a nervous nose and I'm just constantly blowing my nose like, there's tissue back here for me. It's really embarrassing. And today when I was at Relic, they had these for sale. And I'm like, that looks way classier than a fucking nasty ass tissue.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That and a monocle. And you're all set.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I was gonna say is you can have it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, thank you. No, thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, and okay, so when we got back to the hot after drinking during the day, we saw these people getting out of like a cab, clearly from the airport. And they were like unloading their bags. And this chick had a fucking cooler for her room. And I was like, that's the most insanely brilliant thing I've ever seen. Yeah, I love her. And then she goes, georgia, like, for sure murderino.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're like, yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kendra, Where's Kendra?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kendra, shut the fuck up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. Fucking right in front.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, Kendra, thank you for your service.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Appreciate you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, I'm so shit faced. I don't know where I am right Now, I hope this is good, but it won't matter because I'll be asleep in 15 minutes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Me too. Oh, speaking of, this is my favorite Murder of the podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Georgia Hart Stark, that's Karen Kilgarra.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you, Oakland, are here for us once again. Thank you. Thank you so much for waiting six years for us. We genuinely appreciate it. It's very exciting to be here with you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was in my 30s last time we toured and now I'm having hot flashes on stage.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's cool with the last time we played here, my niece Nora did a little cartwheel on stage. You may have been here and saw it. She was nine. I thought it would be funny if she came and did it again. She did it. She did it. She didn't because she just started college. So think about how much closer to death you are now. That's what I'm thinking about. How did that time pass? That like that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No time. It's just flat time. No, no, it's a circle. It's a circle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a circle. That's right. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I always forget which way that goes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a flat circle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Like pizza. What else? Should we sit? I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What are you wearing? Oh, wait. Did you do your walk or you just talked about it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I just talked about going vintage shopping.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, ok. So you go, I'll go. Because I don't have pockets. And look, I'm really sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. You can leave now if you want.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To, or someone should take that person out because it means too much to you. I got this dress in Spain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've been to Europe. Kendra, I've been to Europe. No brag. No brag. I forgot that there's ushers here that are like, what the fuck is this? I always forget that. I'm so sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why are they screaming about pockets?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It doesn't make sense. They're literally mad there's no pockets. And do you want to give your dress a little spin?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Last night I realized that this is my. Karen just did this beautiful walk. This, like, model watch. And I realized, yeah, my pose of, like, look what I'm wearing is this. Because I don't know what to do. But anyway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tsa. Tsa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But tonight I remembered my bra. Last night I did not remember my bra. So it's a win for every.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know you guys are getting this foundation garment show. This is gonna be incredible. Watch the difference. If you were here last night, spot the difference.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tonight it's Going to change full cup size. It's so crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your performance is going to be incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's going to be real perky. Yeah. Oh, can we talk about the backstage slippers?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So even we have this, like, new tour manager who's not my husband. And for the past couple, like, he's not. For the past couple cities, I've been like, oh, my God, slippers in our dressing rooms. I've been so excited. I love slippers. I can't cope barefoot. I hate shoes. Slippers, yay. But then last night, Karen was like, oh, those slippers are cute. And I'm like, well, you have a pair, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I just thought someone was leaving their shoes in my dressing room. So I was like, oh, that's creepy.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoever was here before, I guess that's just what they're doing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, is it weird that I automatically was like, these are mine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mine. But then you were saying we were in Boston.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just take the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were saying that they filmed us when we were in Boston.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were doing a secret filming thing that we can't really talk about, but it's very exciting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'll see. Or you won't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or you won't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know how show business is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It could not happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But Georgia's had her slippers on, not realizing it. So she's like. She had a pair of slippers that said, let's go, girls.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like a happy face with a cowgirl hat on. And it said, let's go, girls. And I realized that the filming people were filming my slippers as if I picked them out. And that's my personality.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is her personality.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking kidding me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hold on a second. Okay, what? I just need. And I hope I'm right about this. I think I just spotted a Hot Dog on a Stick employee in the audience.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Could you stand up, please?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Stand your ass.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Would you, please?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah, girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Hold on, please.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen never says nice things about people in the audience. So this is like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But you know what?

[Guest or Audience Member]

Huge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now I will. Because. Is that a real uniform from Hot Dog on a Stick?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you. Did you work there? She worked at Ceremony, Hillsdale and fucking Stonestown. Do you understand? I'm sorry, are you a regional manager of Hot Dog on a Stick? Like, you must be good if they're sending you around to different malls. Say again?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Desperate. They were desperate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you know that? And sorry to waylay this, but my first seven minutes of standup comedy was about the girls that work at Hot Dog On a stick. Did you know that? And how you guys used to have to squeeze the lemonade in your hot pants with your erectile hats? Does it. It's still good, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, she had to have stolen that outfit, right? Because it's not. You don't get to go home with that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You didn't have to pay them 75 bucks for that, did you? No. You just straight up stole it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Worth it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's your name? Gina. Gina, welcome to this show. Thank you so much. You've done it. Gina's done it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love that. I love that your eyes were just like. You can't see anything. But then you were like, hot dog on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Excuse me. Someone from my old bit is here. I need to interview her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think I saw you do that bit in, like, 2001 at Largo. Yes. I swear to God. Isn't that crazy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Little baby Georgia was in the audience.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look at us now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was up there like, I'm on speed and I have points to make.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, let's stop doing this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stop trying. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh. Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Last night, my feet were weird, and I, like, kept. And I was just really aware of where my feet were the whole time instead of, like, where'd you put them? I don't know that, like, this was in the way, and so I couldn't do sit like that. Also, I just realized I forgot to put lotion on my legs, so I'm really chalky and gross. So that's fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If anyone has lotion, you please pass it up. That'd be great if it was self tanner. That'd be even better for a nice kind of a nylon look.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Still need the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gotta have them. I actually am doing kind of a. In my seat. I was doing kind of a side saddle Lady Chatterley kind of thing over here where I was just like. Cause it's so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, I don't know what that means.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a literary reference about a dirty old book.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Ew.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't even read.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. Wanna tell them why they're here, what they're doing? I know what's fucking happening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is my favorite murder. It's a true crime comedy podcast. Thank you. Some people don't like that combination. We understand. So to explain, we like to say that Georgia and I cope with our lifelong trauma through the use of humor. That's how a lot of us like to do it. We do not think murder is funny. We just think we're funny. And so we also became obsessed with true crime at a much too young of an age. And so when we met each other, all of those things collided and we're like, we gotta talk about this. And I've never done this part before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I love it. Keep going. Do it. Go, go, man. I fucking love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's our two woman show. I'm writing it as we speak. Anyhow, let's see, where do we find a line?

[Georgia Hardstark]

We think we're funny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We think we're funny. And there's a lot of people that get dragged to this show against the their will by their partners.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That guy has a drag along shirt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He actually has merch to say he's a drag along. People don't know what the inside jokes are and they don't care and they don't like it, but they love their partner and that's a beautiful thing. So anyway, if you find that you don't like anything that's going on tonight, we invite you to get the fuck out.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Except for the security guards.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please don't go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Please don't leave. Please don't go. It's good. It's real weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll try to. We'll work on it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

What's that?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's where Squarespace comes in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to squarespace.com murder for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use, offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's squarespace.com murder code murder. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's spooky season, but your home should feel lived in, not haunted.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

They offer a curated range of mid century, modern, coastal, and scandi inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also pair seamlessly with other article products.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Article takes great care in curating its collection, focusing solely on high quality, meaningful pieces that will stand the test of time. There's no filler. Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design, and lasting value.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Article provides fabulous and affordable shipping across the US And Canada. You get to choose your delivery time and they'll keep you in the loop with updates along the way. I know I've mentioned already how much I love my entryway table, but I swear to God, because the path that it's on, like, you have to walk out of the front of my house to walk to the bathroom. So I pass it four times a day, and I love it more every time. It's like perfectly made, stylish, all these things that I needed and wanted. And it was under $100.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've seen it, and I will vouch for it. It was four. Freaking adorable. And it fits so well with your house. Yes. So if you're in the market for a beautiful new sofa, dining table, or bed, head over to article.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're first.

[Guest or Audience Member]

I'm first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's really scary. Last night. Last night I told a story about a ghost blimp, and that was like, the easiest story I've ever told in my life. It was like, this has no stakes, right? I mean, except for that they disappeared. But tonight is not that, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're gonna get serious. They like it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, well, Marcus, our tour manager who took Vince's place, wrote G dog on my script, so I know it's mine. Thank you, Marcus. Okay. All right, well, listen. Today's story is about the eerie disappearance and suspicious death of a wealthy but troubled heiress who went out for a morning walk in 1929 and never made it home. This is the story of the disappearance of Edith Irene Wolfskill.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is she your great auntie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. You just. Thank you so much. No one's clapping.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The main sources I use for this story are local news reports by Bay Area publications such as the San Francisco Chronicle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hooray.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You love it. The Oakland Tribune. Hey, and the Sacramento Bee. I think Sacramento's, like, represented.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Hey, after all I've done to you, What a beautiful thing. Thank you so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm getting hot. Okay. The rest of the sources can be found someday in our show notes in the future show notes, if they ever exist. This might be one of those shows that, like, just never sees the light of day. Like, what would happen? Like, what could happen that it would never be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It all becomes word of mouth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so to understand this woman, Edith Irene Wolfskill, you have to know that she comes from one of California's wealthiest families. Her grandfather and his brother had been from the Midwest, and they were among the earliest white settlers in California, first near LA and then in the Sacramento Valley. And her. Edith's grandfather. Mathis. Not Matthias. Mathis. Mathis. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let me see. Yeah. Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They did the thing where, like, you know, there are all these, like, people who are like, I'm gonna hit gold in California.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gold miners. Yep, yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And, like, those people, like, it didn't go great, but then other people were like, I'm gonna sell shit to the people trying to find gold. And they got fucking wealthy. Like, that's what happened to them. So they basically became ranchers. Cattles, like, crops, all this stuff. And ultimately they wind up richer than most of the miners. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just one thing. Yeah, it's cattle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What'd I say?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cattles.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cattles.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I did.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Last night was cioppino.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just a little crab. Cioppino for everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It sounds right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I really don't want to do it, but I know it's sometimes fun. And you do enjoy it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it. Okay. Okay. If I cared, I wouldn't be on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stage in front of a bunch of fucking people. Do this. I do love that. The plural of cattle. Cattle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You said cattles.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We just threw a little less on there for spice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Mathis brother, Edith's great Uncle William, becomes even wealthier. He gets into grapes and then wine. And his massive ranch will become the ritzy neighborhood of Holmby Hills, Westwood, and Bel Air. Over in our neck of the woods.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can feel that they're withholding booze. Yeah, we're.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're moving here, so it's fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you're fine. I'm from here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So basically, they end up getting enough land to stretch over thousands of acres of vineyards. Vineyards or. Or. Or orchards. Orchids.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Orchards.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. You got it. You nailed it. Just don't overthink it. I put too much of a spotlight. I'm really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, it's like, I. Can you, like, get a hot flash by getting, like, bring on your own hot flash?

[Guest or Audience Member]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's Munchausen's wife. Hot flash. So stupid.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So basically, that makes them two of the wealthiest men in the state. So congratulations to them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To those guys. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So by the time Edith is born in San Francisco in 1872, she already has two older brothers following in Grandpa Mathis footsteps. Edith's father, John Wolfskill, is a prominent rancher, and he's training his sons, Matthew and Ne, to follow suit. Ney.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like what the horse says.

[Georgia Hardstark]

N E y ne.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's rude.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nay. Yeah. Here's a picture of the grandfather.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or the father. That's the father. Edith's father. Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

John Wolfskill, pioneer of the Sacramento Valley. If anyone here can do anything about bringing those sideburns back, it would be great. I'd really appreciate it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I love about this? Like, he's younger than us in this photo. Like, that's absolutely younger than us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He has no idea that Korean skin care is coming down the pipe for all of us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's out in the sun, baking his face. Okay, so that's him. But then they have a girl. Her name is Edith, and she's highly privileged. She's sent away from the home immediately as soon as she's old enough to attend finishing school in Europe, as you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do in Paris, France. Europe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The sole daughter of John and his wife, Susan Wolfskill, Edith is described as beautiful with brown hair and. Okay, I don't think this fucking exists in real life. I only ever see this in fiction. Cool. Gray eyes. Gray. Have you ever seen a person with gray eyes before? That's not a fucking thing. Like, go to the doctor, something's wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's when your eyes are about to fail. That's the last. It's the last color before your eyes go out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't buy it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Completely shut off. I don't buy that scam.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. They're gray. Your gray eyes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Congratulations. Being a society girl, she's written about in the papers as, quote, one of California's prized beauties. Her delicate pink, white skin and wide eyes. Her long, rich brown hair and fascinating form, AKA she stacked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, baby, fascinating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Made her the darling of the state's aristocracy. God damn it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was a good one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Say it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aristocracy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. I had this backstage. No, you. I swear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You've practiced so many times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was trying to hit that stacked line joke, and so I didn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You got It.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, and I did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then everything else went to shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think we have a picture of her. Let's take a look. Well, there's a vague.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fascinating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a vague thing of her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No wonder. They're just like. Okay, can you turn around? We just need to get that ass.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, you're not gonna look over here. She had a big zit on that side of her face. I've been there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, it's a new thing. I'm going to look at the back wall. Concentrate on my. Yeah, it's fascinating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But as lovely and wealthy as she may be, Edith is different when she returns to California from Europe in the late 1800s. So what the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Beret, smoking, fake accent.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's pretend she's starting to act peculiar and it's worrying her family, unfortunately. Religious is one of those things. Yeah. Not. You know what I mean? Don't be mad at me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't think they're here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But you.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Guys should have seen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were in Salt Lake City. Like, they woohooed at Mormonism. Like, really fucking. A lot of people were like, really? Okay. The cool Mormonism. Yeah. They get Botox.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. They have their own Real Housewives series. They're solid. It's all anyone wants.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It seems that Edith becomes so obsessed with religion that she kneels in the streets of San Francisco and prays loudly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dirty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Oh, she means the street, not Edith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So dirty. Shouting scripture at her neighbors out of nowhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rich people love that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She frequently announces herself to be the empress of the world, which fucking. Amen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amen. I love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In a world by her late 20s, Edith doesn't seem to have any suitors, but. Or marriage prospects. But it seems like her family's, like, great, because she's very wealthy, and they don't want to just, like, marry her off to someone who'll take advantage of her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Because she's the empress of the world.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Like, that's hard to match.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Excuse me. God damn it. You can't. You can't. You know, you can't be perfect. You have to have one thing wrong with you sometimes. You can't have great feet like these and fucking not, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is why we podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He had to leave.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like. He's like, I can't do this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. So her family is so rich and involved that everyone knows it's the Wolfskill heiress Who's freaking out in public, essentially. So, like, you know, they're just. They're very protective of her, it seems like. And they commit her to California General Hospital in hopes that she can be, quote, fixed. Those are my quotes. They didn't say that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

By Dr. William Chapman Ralston Jr. Who I bet your mom has talked about before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah. Every night at dinner. Story after story of Dr. William, Ralph, and Watson Jr. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So on two occasions, she wanders from inpatient facilities in Belmont and San Francisco and just kind of like, wanders away. But luckily, both times, she's found unharmed. At the hospital, she's medicated and supervised until she's allowed to return home to the family ranch in Fairfield. Nobody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one likes the nut tree. Okay? You're fools.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is about 50 miles away in case she needed directions. And out in the country, she likes to take daily hikes through the hilly trails. It's not a bunch of suburban little boxes at the time. It's, like, beautiful and nice. Edith lives in a white farmhouse with gingerbread trim and a wraparound porch. It's idyllic. It's nestled among her family's vineyards and peach orchids. God damn it. Why can't I do that one?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You've always been orchard. Orchard, yeah. Although a peach orchid would be gorgeous.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm actively trying to not kill an orchid right now at home, so that might be the problem.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't over water it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. I'm not gonna tell you what I saw on Instagram and how to make it work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That you take it all apart and pull the roots out. Yeah. Don't do that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did it work?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's fucking working.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For the first time in my life, I've seen an orchid bud. I've never seen a bud before. They always just die. No. Thank you, but no. You're right. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys will fucking clap for anything. That's crazy. A plant bloomed and she gets credit? I don't think so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't kill a plant. Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But actually, it is amazing because I watched someone do that. Also on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you see that video?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I was like, should I? Because I also have an orchid that I'm trying not to kill. And I was like, I'm going to do this. I can't risk it. And it was like, a whole thing. And I was like, I wouldn't risk it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's gonna die anyways. All right, well, at least you get those little hair clips out of it, you know, to make this into a positive those cute little 90s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They go right into the hair.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Butterfly clips.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. So she's living this nice life with Peaches. And she loves to go on long walks in the countryside. And she becomes kind of famous around town for these wandering walks, because a woman wandering on her own. Oh, my God, she must be wealthy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She must be the empress of the world.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And a Fresno Bee reporter writes that Edith is known by locals. Hey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To be quote. To be a, quote, powerful hiker. And her tall, wiry figure was frequently seen swinging down the hill trails. What are you swinging? I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that Bigfoot?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look at that large person. It's, like, kind of insulting. Neighbors view Edith as a little unpredictable, but ultimately harmless. And she might mutter to herself a lot, but they mostly see her standing on hilltops. Then this is cupping her hands around her face to see into the distance better. I don't know, like a Where's Waldo kind of thing. I mean, I wonder what. Yeah, I wonder what she was looking for. She sounds cool. She sounds like she'd be here. I mean, if it was now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. For real, first of all. But also, it's like, what was the pro. She went to Europe. She got the Lord. She tried to talk about it, and everyone's like, you're insane. Go to a sanitarium. And then her family's like, you don't have to do that because we're rich. Here's a little house, and you're out by yourself in a field.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I could have. You could have just done my whole story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm so sorry, but I'm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, you're right. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because that seems. It's like, leave her alone. How about she doesn't have to wear 16 layers of silk everywhere she goes. And she won't mutter to herself all the time. I'm so tight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's broad to get 14 ribs removed. To put this corset on. She's like, where are my rights? I can't even vote right. I was thinking of that the whole time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just killed two minutes so I could think of that joke.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so things take a turn when Edith's father dies in 1913. Edith is in her early 40s, and she and her brothers split his estate of $1.6 million in. No, but that's in $1913.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So today, in today's money, $1.3 million would be somewhere 6.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like it's going to matter. No, no, no, no. I'm telling you, it's 1.6, not 1.3. Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I thought you. Okay. You didn't give it away. Is it $10 million?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it close?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. You want to go one more time?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure. Higher. Lower.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Higher.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Someone said higher. Oh, my God. I love this game show. Okay, then I'm gonna say $17 million, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

$4.9.4 million. Wait, no. 49.4. I'm so hot. It's so hot up here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How long did you stay at Mad Dog in the Fog?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I took a nap. I swear to God I took a nap. That's all that matters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

$49 million.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus Christ.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that's the estate and the brothers Matt and Nay, no shock to anyone, fucking hate each other. Like. Of course they do. They're like fighting over 50 million fucking dollars.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just like succession.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. And they're put in charge of their sister's care, which of course is hard because they hate each other, but they actually really love their sister and want to take care of her. So they're not total dicks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Matt and Nay clash violently over control of the profits of that money and management of their ranch, particularly the orchards.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. Thank you. I need it. I just need applause for anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We all do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Janet really withheld she from me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's why we're here, girl. That's why we're here. We worked very hard to get applauded for the word orchard. You deserve it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But they basically put their differences apart long enough to make sure that their sister is safe and under the supervision of a live in nurse. As her caretaker and at the family ranch, at least she can be taken care of and, you know, contained. But also, it seems like they care about her. Here's a picture of something. I don't remember what.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, let's see.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whatever it is, put anything up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Picture. Surprise.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You pick. Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay, that's. I didn't mean to do that. Okay, don't worry about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Million dollar mystery of the mad heiress.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. Good looking out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was it too soon?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, but it also was too huge and. Doesn't matter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I liked how big it was. It felt like modern art.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kind of like what you do, you see up close. What you see far away is a different.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a dolphin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So on July 14, 1929, a 57 year old now Edith leaves the house around 7am for her regular morning walk. It's a cool summer day, so she wears a light dress, maybe not all her silks. And her housekeeper Plans to see her return in time for lunch. Remember, she's like, famous for her strolls. That's insulting. Walks. You know, stroll, hikes. Oh, you can pay for a stroll.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, she can only stroll.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, she's fucking walking. Like, let her live.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let her stride, even.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But Edith isn't back by lunch and she's nowhere to be found on the trails or in town. And because her family is so prominent, the response is to the nurse's call to the sheriff is, you know, they're friend of the family. It's pretty quick. And knowing that Edith's eccentric appearance may have attractive attention. Remember, she's not wearing all her skirts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The sheriff suspects that someone who knew she was both vulnerable and from a rich family might have kidnapped her. And so the deputy is assigned to stay at the house and keep watch for anyone who might drop off a ransom note. Like, that's her immediate suspicion. But nobody ever comes with a ransom note. Hundreds of people descend on the ranch encase the grounds. Edith was seen every single day. And there's just eerily no sign of her whatsoever. Not on the ranch grounds. Man, Allie just really wanted to fuck with me by putting orchids in there. Orchard really just keeps putting it in there. I'm not going to say that anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you ever go to Orchard Supply Hardware?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Orchard's fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That could help you. Orchard. Just think of that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll get you a pneumatic aid that fixes this problem by the time the story's over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Appreciate you. Okay, so basically they look everywhere. They can't find her. Neighbors and local townspeople join the search. Dogs, horses. Everyone is looking for her because this is what dogs and horses. Hey, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This way. Rusty. After you, lady.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like on their own accord. This is weird. Yeah. Nay. Remember Nay, Nay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nay is out there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's some joke there. The Los Angeles bank where most of Edith's money is kept puts up a thousand dollar reward for information leading to her being found. Do you want to or should we?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just. $58,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

18,000. It's fucking. It's never satisfying. It's never right. And it's never satisfying. Anyway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We saw the photo. It's a big whole thing. And.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is a time where Georgia kind of doesn't want to do her story anymore, you know? You saw that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't like going first. I don't know why.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's tough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You just got power through it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep, you got it. What's really funny is you can Always tell because my glass is always empty by the end of the show and Karen's isn't like, who gets nervous and who doesn't? Am I okay? All right. Thank you. Sweet. So there's some tips. Someone says they spotted Edith in the town of Red Bluff, which is more than 100 miles. Nope, nobody north of Edith's home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're trying to rep north Red Bluff back there. We love it in red and blue.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But there's always like wild goose shape tips and nothing comes to fruition. And so basically, with Edith having been missing a whole week, the weather gets much hotter. It's the middle of summer and the concern is that Edith could not survive in such conditions without food or water. And, you know, at night we know it gets really cold as well. And she wasn't wearing a lot of layers. So meanwhile, her brothers Matt and Nay are forced into close proximity over the course of the investigation, which they don't like to do. And they have screaming matches in the sheriff's office in front of newspapers. Like, these dudes, they're like the Gallagher brothers, like oasis. Just like, can't even, you know, Nolan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Liam are in with the sheriffs. I like that the journalists are there where it's like, if everyone could meet while my brother and I fight, that would be great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I hate you so much that I can't not yell at you in front of a place that's going to tell everyone we're yelling at each other, immediately.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Turn around and write it word for word.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so basically, Nay blames his brother for hiring the nurse that Edith ran away from, saying it's the nurse's fault that she ran and it's his brother's fault for hiring him. And Matt, on the other hand, believes that Edith has been kidnapped. And so they're just arguing about what happened to her and neither of them know and it's not cool. So basically, despite all the sightings and efforts put into finding Edith, she's still not found by the end of summer. And people begin moving on from what has become a harrowing and really strenuous weeks long search effort until September 19th, a little more than two months after Edith disappears, the 18 year old son of a neighboring rancher is walking along a dried up creek bed. Yeah, looking for a stick to knock fruit off the trees. Sounds illegal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's what we like to do out in the country. It's stick time, we say to each other. And then we search and search in the creek bed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then this part is why they hate us.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When he finds Edith's body. Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's why everyone hates us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was about to say, shouldn't do a character right before your.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry, I could have.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's on me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's badly decomposed. And this leads sheriff to wonder if Edith's body could have possibly been in this one spot since she died. But the creek bed is about a mile and a half from Edith's house and has been searched many, many times since Edith's disappearance two months prior. So it seems that the only possible explanation is that Edith's body had been brought there sometime after her death. Right. Like they couldn't have just not seen it. Right. Since the most thorough searching was done in the week after her disappearance, another theory is that maybe she was alive for a week and wandering and then died in the spot, either at someone's hand or of natural causes. And at the same time, a deputy sheriff says that that spot had been searched at least 50 times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So it's very mysterious, but in many weeks after her disappearance and by different parties every time. So, yeah, it seems like that there's a disagreement on when people actually search that area, but it's enough times to be like, it's not two times, it's 50 times. Right. That's math.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is simple math.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's possible that Edith died at this spot in the spot of natural causes, but she would have to have been somewhere else during the roughly two week period when the highest number of people were looking for her. But basically, okay, so Edith's cousin Reid Wolfskill, recalls looking in that exact spot almost two weeks after Edith's disappearance. And Reid, along with another cousin, is the one to identify her body via clothes and shoes found near her. And so at this point, Edith's brother Nay, who had thought Edith had wandered away and it was the housekeeper's fault, he changes his mind and agrees with his estranged brother because it just doesn't make any sense that no one would have found her. Right. He thinks foul play is involved. And basically it's very strange. And you know that they think someone had been trying to keep her hidden until she was found.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And strangely, Edith is not wearing the shirt and skirt she left home in. Instead, she's wearing brown men's overalls, described as the kind mostly worn by carpenters, and there's a handwritten note in her pocket. So basically they have to do a chemical process to find out what it actually says because it's so worn. But it says, quote, do not Give anything. Do not show sympathy. Do not speak to any nurse. Do not speak magic. Walk out. Sleep only in the daytime, and drink water. Bathe before I dress. Use gifts. Shun all change. Right. Like, there's no way you're decoding that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or she's writing a song. But hold on. Do you think there's a possibility this is, like, a list to herself and she, like, went out in disguise?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It seems like it, yeah. Maybe she's trying to escape. Like, maybe there's more to her captivity than just keeping her at home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, maybe they're actually keeping her captive. And so there's not a lot about the handwriting and whether it was hers or not written. But about a day later, investigators discovered that signs that someone has been living in a shack on the ranch bordering the Wolfskill property. The owner of the property had thought that the cabin had been abandoned for years, but on the stove, there are eggshells and other food scraps, as if someone had been living there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We haven't seen scrambled eggs here in 25 years. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I had to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You did, and I appreciate you. The bed looks like it had been recently slept in. And on the walls, various phrases have been scrawled, and they look like religious words and phrases that Edith often wrote on her walks on, like, fences and stuff. Another neighboring rancher. I mean, this is so stupid. Says that on July 17, three days after her disappearance, when everyone is looking for her, he heard a woman's screams coming from the cabin and just didn't do anything about it. Does nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the mystery of whether Edith was living in the cabin, which seems likely, and whether she was alone or held there, we don't know. But prior to. Prior to her disappearance in recent years, she had always returned home from her hikes, so it's not like she was totally held captive. She was allowed to roam as much as she wanted. So three surgeons examined Edith's body, and at least one of them. Dr. A.A. berger. Your best friend.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My bestie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He disagrees with the theory that there's foul play involved. And none of her. Because none of her bones are broken and she hasn't ingested any poison. And both he and the pathologist named a.m. moody. What's with all these?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was all initials back then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Actually find a blood clot in her brain. Oh, right. So they say she could have died of natural causes, but it doesn't explain how she got to the spot where she was found after they had already looked there. But any evidence from the overalls is inconclusive. I mean, it's the. They're not doing hardcore science on those overalls back then. You know, they're like, shake them out. Nothing. Great. Yeah, that's forensic files back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Shake them out. And then read the runes of the dust on the ground.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, basically, a couple months later, the Solano county coroner concludes an inquest into the cause of death. And Solano. You guys like Solano?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're literally doing it to every city and county.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I want it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want the cheese. I know. I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the verdict is death from cause unknown. I think there's another photo. Let's take a look at this picture. If there is. There. That's her. That was her then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm telling you, I'm older than her. There's like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's 38.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, exactly. It's all Botox and filler over here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So do we think that the. Her. The blood clot in her brain had something to do with her behavior?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That would be my, like, stupid, random guess.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It would be my very educated guess.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, be interesting to know. I got that from an episode of Law and Order. Someone's behavior changes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It'd be really interesting to know. Unfortunately, I'm telling this story for my favorite murder. Which means we don't fucking know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then by the time that her verdict, her cause of death is released, Edith's brothers seem to be ready to just let go. They don't make any public contest to the findings. Ney and his wife accompany Edith's body to Los Angeles, where she's buried in a plot next to her parents. And the brothers battle it out over how to manage Eve's estate. Because she did have a chunk of that, and they were looked into, and they didn't need her. Her portion of the estate. And it seems like they hated each other but cared about her. So after a month, they agree to put a trust company in charge of what she left behind, which is somewhere between, in today's money, 9 and $18 million. I know. And because she was worth so much, some speculate that. That it was her brother's. But it doesn't seem. I just said that. It doesn't seem like it. And that's the story of the unexplained disappearance and death of Edith Irene Wolfskill, the Empress of the world.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The empress of the world.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Crazy. Just slam it down. That was great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. Am I okay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everything's great. Okay, now where do you. Where do you. Kendall, where do you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kendra. Kendra, where do you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you were gonna go apple picking, what would you walk through to do that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

A field of trees. A copse of trees.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, someone reads books.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

You can pay your own way.

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Learn [e-mail] every holiday season it's the same. You've got one person who's impossible to shop for and another who, quote, doesn't need anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great. Then they're gonna get my macaroni art.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

You love those Quint sweaters, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It just came out of the bag. I think I put it on and walked directly to a record with you. There's just nothing like a beautiful cashmere sweater when the weather turns cold and it's $50.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I got some underwear from them, but I also got a second pair. My second pair of their Italian leather bow ballet flats. I have one in black now and one in almond because I'm obsessed with them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to quince.com mfm to get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com mfm to get free Shipping and 365 day returns.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Quince.com mfm Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a 60 day money back guarantee, so you can try it and see the difference for yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I cannot tell you how much the cameras around my house have meant to me on our tour because we've been away so much and just to be able to like, look in real quick, make sure everything's okay. You know, when the gardener comes, make sure they shut the door. Make sure everything just looks right in our neighborhood. It's just kind of this peace of mind when you're far from home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What I like is that there's also a team standing by. So if you see anything when you're checking that video, there are people there to take care of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't miss out on Simplisafe's biggest sale of the year. 60% off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right now, our listeners can save 60% off on a SimpliSafe home security [e-mail] fave.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's SimpliSafe.com fav.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's no safe like Simplisafe. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, we're just. Let's get through my story real quick and get out of here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're all busy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My story starts in the late 1980s when I was at my prime.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, what's this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's take a look.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Girl.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen. Billie. I wish could never. I called her the wrong name. Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Meanwhile in Orange County, I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What she's gonna do. That's so funny. Today she texts me and she's like, is it okay if I have been send a photo of you and you're not gonna know what it is, but I'm gonna put it up, dude. Like, do you trust me? Basically. And Vince was like, I don't know what to do. No, no, go back. I want to see little Georgie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You nailed it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. He was like, I don't want to embarrass you or anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think that's perfect.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. It says mammoth right there. I think. Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're doing. You're in Mammoth wearing a mammoth sweatshirt. I'm trying to seriously graduate from high school with all my eyebrows intact.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. That makes me want to cry. I don't know why.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like, I just thought I'd really ground us and center us at the top of this story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, thank you. So this does start. We make Our way back to the Bay Area. But it starts at Princeton University in New Jersey, if you've ever heard of it. Admissions officials receive an application that they take note of. It's less a formal application and more of a glorified note sent by a 17 year old student named Alexi Santana. And in it, Alexei paints a romantic picture of his life in Utah. Herding cattle by day and reading play DOH by campfire at night. Sleeping outside under the stars with his horse named Goodenough by his side.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ouch. Right? Good enough. Good enough. This sounds like the beginning of Legally Blonde. For sure.

[Guest or Audience Member]

We'll see.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if I just read you the script of Legally Blonde? I'm like, and good night. So there's no teacher recommendations or list of extracurricular activities that are included in this. Apparently that's what you do when you submit for college. Good to know. Good to know. There's not even a high school transcript, but Alexei does include a newspaper clipping from a track meet that he's won. And then Alexei explains that his difficult life, circumstances, an absent father and a deathly ill mother who needs his constant care have kept him from traditional schooling. He actually claims that he's never once set foot in a school and that he's entirely self taught. And yet he has higher than average set scores and a clear athletic talent. The Princeton officials are amazed. And in the end, Alexei is not only admitted to Princeton, but He's given a $20,000 athletic scholarship. But he has to defer for a year because of his sick mother. But in the fall of 1989, he finally arrives on the Princeton campus. But what no one at Princeton knows is that this brilliant, philosophical, athletic young cowboy named Alexi Santana does not exist. And the Alexi who shows up on campus to begin matriculation. I just threw that in. I just threw it in. That's good. Is actually a 29 year old drifter with a criminal rap sheet and a history of the same con that he's already pulled right here in the Bay Area. This is the story of the college conman, James Hogue.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Love a con man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love a con man story. Yeah. So some of the main sources used in this one are David Samuel's deep dive article for the New Yorker entitled the Runner which ran. Thank you for getting all the way down on the ground.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She also ran. You were saying the runner, which.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is the runner right there. David Samuel's deep dive article, the Runner, which ran in the New Yorker in 2001. A New York Times article by James Barron and Ma Farber. And a Denver Post article entitled the Con Artist Next Door by Nancy Lougholm. So James Hoag is born in 1959 in a working class neighborhood in Kansas City, Kansas. And from the beginning, sure, two things. From the beginning, two things are pretty clear. James is smart and he's obsessed with running. He's very good at it. So much so that he sees running as his ticket to a higher income bracket. His dream is to parlay his incredible athletic skills into a scholarship to a top tier college which will then lay the foundation for his future success. Success. One childhood, childhood friend named Keith Mark will later the two first names, my least favorite thing in the world will later describe James as, quote, one of the smartest kids that I've ever known. A very good, polite kid, never in any trouble, trained all the time, had a tremendous gift to run. Literally the best runner he could have been. Olympic class. He had big time talent is what he had, end quote is what he had. But Keith, actually the full end of the. The end of the full quote is. Includes this important line quote. But when we were in high school, James was very much an individualist and he did not like to be told what to do, end quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit. Hey, join us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Join us, James. So from a young age, James resists and rebels against any authority. And he seems to have a bit of ego as well. So now it's 1977. James enrolls at the University of Wyoming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No one, nobody lives there.

[Guest or Audience Member]

That's right, no one was there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he's made it on the varsity cross country team as a freshman. It's his dream come true. And actually the University of Wyoming has been investing in its track program and recruiting the best young runners from around the world. Come live in Wyoming. Run. So for the first time in his life, James is actually struggling to keep up. The other recruits are way faster than him. He starts practicing harder. He pushes his body to the point of injury. And his friends can tell that it's all getting to him because he seems to get really down on himself. But they also notice that he's suddenly got a bunch of stuff like metals and bicycles and stereos that he never had before. And it is, at the very least, suspicious. So now James is around 20 years old, he's a sophomore. He's in his sophomore year of college, doing very well in classes. You did great. No one noticed. But he's still struggling on the track. He competes in a regional track meet. He finishes. This one's a heartbreaker. 226 out of 250 runners, you just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don'T even want to compete, you know, at that point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he takes his running very seriously. So obviously, this is devastating. This is that kind of thing where, like, you're in high school and you're like, God, I'm so good at this thing. And then you. You step one foot out into the real world and you're like, I'm fucking terrible at everything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what Los Angeles is full of. It's really hot. People from their hometown who come to la and then it's like the most beautiful people you ever seen in your fucking life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're just cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're the neighbor. You become the neighbor in the sitcom I don't know what I'm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're cute and you're like, maybe you can tap dance a little. And other than that, everyone's a supermodel and they're like a quadruple triple threat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Listen, we'll explain Hollywood to you. Just give us a second. So now I said that. And he's doing okay. So out of 250, he comes in 226.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not long after, after this, James drops out of school completely. And then he resurfaces down in Austin, Texas, where he enrolls at the University of Texas. Nope. With a major in chemical engineering.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, he can do chemical engineering and he's, like, mad at running?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I can do neither of those things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he's still depressed. Dude, you've got to look on the bright side, guys. Who are you, Karen? So he also joins the track team, and he's getting excellent grades, but he is not doing well at track. UT's head recruiter, James Blackwood, will remember, quote, he wasn't a bad college runner. Probably better than average, decent. But I think he thought he was better than a lot of guys on the Texas team. Then he got out there with them and they ran him into the ground. End quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So in 1982, James five year eligibility to compete in NCAA events expires, effectively ending his college running career. But instead of focusing his energy on getting his degree in chemical engineering, which was what he was doing and apparently good at, he gets really depressed. And the next year, he's caught stealing equipment from a local bike shop. So he's arrested. And this is his first documented run in with the law, but it is not his last. So he drops out of UT with only a couple credits left for him to graduate. And then he just disappears how many credits do you still need to grad?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I almost have my associates in very many, many things. So I was like, no, I don't want to do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want to switch it. Hold on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What about cooking? Okay, so about two years after this, in late 1985, James is now around 25 years old and he resurfaces. This time it's at the enrollment office of Palo Alto High School, also known as Pali. And James is now claiming to be 17 years old.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He tells them that he is an orphan named J. Mitchell Huntsman. And he has an incredible story. He claims he was born in San Diego but raised on a Nevada commune. And. Right, all of it. And he says he's entirely self educated. This is going to sound familiar. And a disciplined athlete who runs upwards of 60 miles a week. That part might actually be true. He also claims both of his parents have recently died in a car accident. But he, he still wants to work towards his diploma while putting his running skills to use on the school's track team. He plans to hopefully get admitted to Stanford University in a couple years, which happens to be, which happens to be right across the street from Palo Alto High School.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he was just like, you know what, Let me start over, Let me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Start over in high school. In high school. So. So he can't let the track dream go, obviously.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Me neither.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? You'll do it someday. And it's kind of weird because he could have had a degree from college in chemical engineering, but he's going back to basics.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck those knees up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. So the good news is James Scheme totally works and people buy this story. Even though he looks, looks a bit older than he claims to be. His classmates and teachers just shrug it off. One faculty member actually tells reporters later, quote, as a teacher, I thought it was rude for me to even think that he was older, even though he was very thin and you could see the shadow of his beard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, now this is that Drew Barrymore movie where she goes back to exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Same if she loved Josh. Okay, so what's important is that 25 year old James is now running high school track again. And this time he is killing it. Of course, he got his second chance as Jay Huntsman. He crushes the first competitive cross country race that he is enrolled in, so much so that he gets write ups in a local newspaper about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, don't do that. Yeah, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But one sports reporter from a newspaper called the Peninsula Times Tribune, which doesn't exist anymore, that journalist named Jason Cole is there that day, and he's a little skeptical. He has this nagging feeling about this very mature looking student. So he decides to do some digging to the point where he actually requests a copy of Jay Huntsman's birth certificate from the city of San Diego. And that's when Jason learns the real Jay Huntsman died in infancy, more than a decade earlier. So although he can't explain the why, here, Jason is positive that Pally's newest track star is actually a grown man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God, how creepy would that be?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the best. I love it so much. It's the kind of thing where, like, it would be like a weird dream, nightmare I would have, where it's like, I'd be in high school and people like, hey, going to the dance? I'm like, I'm 42. What are you guys doing?

[Guest or Audience Member]

I can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I shouldn't be here. Where are my pants? So while journalist Jason Cole works on this expose, James is living life as an orphaned high school track star. And the Pali community just embraces and supports him. In October of 1985, he wins the Stanford Invitational high school cross country race.

[Georgia Hardstark]

See, if you want, you can't win. You know, you have to keep a low profile. Get like, like fourth place, you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not old 225th place. He's going to win every single chance he gets.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this is actually described by one reporter as, quote, the most prestigious high school race in the country for an adult, for an old man. But only days after that victory comes Jason Cole's byline as it appears in the Peninsula Times Tribune. And it says, oh, it's pretty close. Mystery Runner's history.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's a snappy title. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is there any way we can get these pictures from a little further back at all? We may have. We made it. That could have been us uploading them that way for sure. Okay, so basically that says the mystery runner's history, and it exposes James and it posits that he stole Jay Huntsman's identity. After seeing the birth and death dates on the headstone, one of James, old friends from Wyoming is interviewed in this article, and he describes James as, quote, mischievous before adding, quote. But I thought he would have grown out of it by now. What do you mean? He's only a junior.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ouch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So before they have a chance to expel him, James drops out a pally and he's like, no, no, I'll see myself out. And in the end, authorities decide not to press charges. White. But the community he leaves behind is stunned. An article in Pali's Verde magazine. This is a high school so rich, they have their own magazine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they report, quote, his teammates all liked him. They were pretty upset that he pulled their chains. That he pulled their chain when he left. It wasn't like they hated him from then on. They were just really disappointed that he wasn't what he said he was and that they had been bamboozled.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was Karen's voice for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, I'm a journalist from Pally's magazine, Verde, and we're pissed about Jay Huntsman being not real. Just to give you a sense, this is what J. Huntsman James looked like claiming to be a 17 year old. Yes, please. We should have put that up earlier. It's gonna get close. It's gonna be close. I bet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Hey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, Darcy. Hey, Darcy, do you have your homework? Can I borrow your homework?

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he looks like James Spader. And he does look like an 80s teenager. Like movie teenager. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He does have a little Vince Averill in him, too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God, doesn't he? Totally does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's got an 80s, 80s Vince, old school style.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the shirt. Vince would wear that shirt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, do you guys want to meet in the quad for lunch? No, dad. Get away from us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, they probably. I probably just thought he was a narc, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This was years before 21 Jump Street, I think, though, it's like when people are super into running. You're like, yeah, I guess that's what he looks like. I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that what it is?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just that running, son. I guess.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That fucking looks like my husband. Jesus Christ.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll have to do a side by side. Okay, so a few weeks after he exits himself from Pally, he gets caught writing a bad check while buying contact lenses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oof.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he pleads with the shop owner and says, I promise that I'll come and pay you back. Just please don't have me arrested. Shop owner's like, you're a good kid from the track team. And James skips town and never pays that shop owner back, man. But we're gonna make a donation tonight. Just kidding. So months later, he resurfaces in Vail, Colorado, with a whole new song and dance. This time, he gets himself a seasonal job at a cross training camp. The kind where rich people pay to train alongside champion athletes. But this scam is not what you think it is. This time, James has sold himself as Dr. James Hoag with a Ph.D. in bioengineering.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Out of. You guessed it, Stanford University. That's right. No one notices until 1987, a couple years later, when an old acquaintance of his from back in Austin learns that James is employed at this camp as a doctor and reports him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck that guy. You know? Like, how do you know while you were in Austin he didn't get a fucking doctorate?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like. And what does it do? Snitches?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think snitches get stitches, for sure. But don't you think. Think James, like, stole something of his and it just. Like, there's that fucking guy that took that really good stereo I loved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or he's a doctor. What's that thing when they pretend stolen valor? That's the one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stolen Dr. Valor. Okay. According to the camp owner, when James is confronted about this, the camp owner says, quote, he didn't say much. He didn't say too much. I don't think he ever admitted he wasn't who he said he was. He never apologized. It was like, hey, I got busted. I'll go somewhere else and scam them. End quote. You've got to interview people like this at your newspaper if you have the power to do this. That's a good quote. Cause that's just what James does. Within months, he's drifted to San Diego, and in October of that year, he burglarizes a bike. He burglarizes the bike shop his roommate owns. So he shows up in town, gets a roommate. Nice to meet you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We like the same movies. Whatever. Will you share your, like, frozen dinners with me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Best friends. Then he goes and burglarizes his bike shop, and he steals about 20 grand in tools and bike parts, which is, in today's money, worth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What is it, 80?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's 87.

[Georgia Hardstark]

87. And today's money, 20. Is 249.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's $56,000. Damn it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I told you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then he skips town, and he goes to the southwestern Utah city of St. George, and he starts working there as a bike mechanic with all of his roommates stolen equipment.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so dick.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That is just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But within a year of setting up shop there, another cyclist notices that some of James tools have a different guy's name engraved on them. So once again, it's not Schwinn or whatever. Hey, you didn't say your name was Schwinn. So he gets narc on as well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when officers search James home, they find a lot of stolen property, as well as evidence that he's been applying to Ivy League schools again, this time under the name Alexis Santana. So now we're back at the beginning.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, how did he get that name? He picked it out of a, like birth month. Favorite band? Band.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wanted that to sound like smooth, but it didn't. We can't clear it. Anyway. Alexi Santana. That's the name you come up with when you are stoned. So the good news is Alexi has been accepted to both Princeton and Brown.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he's decided to go to Princeton. He actually got in. So these plans are put on hold. Remember back at the beginning because his very deathly ill mother was sick and so Alexei had to defer for a year.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I remember that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This was when James was arrested and convicted on possession of stolen property charges and sentenced to five years in prison.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my sick mom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. My sick mom in prison.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dude, here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's the good news. He's paroled after 10 months, of course. So you'd think a prison sentence would derail the whole Ivy League Fantasy League plan. But Alexei Santana has his explanation ready to go. So it's all fine. Princeton buys it and allows James to quietly complete his prison sentence. They don't realize they're doing that. So then in the fall of 1989, 29 year old James arrives in New Jersey campus as freshman Alexi Santana, ready for the 89, 90 school year. But traveling across state lines is a violation of his parole. And this violation triggers a warrant for his arrest. Unfortunately, Utah authorities have no idea how to find him. So on Princeton's campus, freshman Alexi Santana. He's shy, he's a little awkward, but there's something about him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh God, we would totally have dated this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He would absolutely be like, I don't know, he's just so old looking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's so mysterious and old looking and old looking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So his classmates mostly like him. They just kind of can't follow his life story. The New York Times reports that Alexei, quote, seemed so unflappable that hardly any of his classmates asked about his apparent discrepancies in the stories he told about himself. He told some students that he was an orphan. Others that his mother was dying. End quote. But hey, let's not get bogged down in details. What's important here is that Alexi maintains a loaded class schedule, gets great grades, and gets invited to join some of the most exclusive university clubs because he's a man. But most importantly, It was like Bob Dylan is here to boo Alexi Santana. Thank you. Most importantly, Alexi has quickly become one of the most talked about athletes on the Princeton track team. He's back, baby. So In February of 1991, Alexi participates in the Harvard, Yale, Princeton track meet in New Haven, Connecticut.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What kind of snacks are at that, do you think?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's little finger sandwiches with no crust. Finally, all of his track based reality denying underage dreams are coming true. I wrote. But there's a snag. A runner from one of the other schools is a Pali graduate and they recognize Alexi. Alexi? Why aren't you talking to me? Alexi? Oh, his name wasn't Alexi at that other school. They recognize this new Alexi Santana as the old J. Whatever his name was, that's really James Hoag. And she immediately calls reporter Jason Cole, who reaches out to Princeton.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The old guy from the back of the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right, the old journalist that's like, I don't know about that beard that you have. He breaks the news, the weird news, to Princeton. So in the middle of class, the cops walk into his lecture hall and dramatically arrest James and take him away in handcuffs. You're not young.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someone's running for reelection that year and has to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. You go make an example. Example of that super weird old guy. He's charged with violating parole, forgery, wrongful impersonation, and falsifying records. And he is able to post bail. Incredibly, he's sold some of his stolen stuff. While awaiting trial, he is allowed to relocate to Cambridge, Massachusetts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where he starts taking classes at Harvard Extension. He won't stop.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's funny how. How hard I tried to get away from college. And this fucking guy, this guy can't stay away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, assign me something long and difficult. Okay. At one point, he's hired to catalog precious minerals and gems for the college. And these people are supposed to be fucking smart. While he's working there, about 50 grand worth of gems go missing from Harvard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Worth around 50 grand, you said about 930, 120,000. You go too high and you're stupid. You go too low and you're fucking right.

[Guest or Audience Member]

This is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a humbling practice. This podcast, this whole situation and life. They're also an expensive microscope and a chair with the Harvard seal imprinted on it. Go missing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh yeah. Can I just sell this at a pawn shop? No, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But actually the police find all of these items in James room. Okay, so he's again arrested. He's charged with even more crimes. He's found guilty on four counts back in Princeton. So he's found guilty on those charges now. He's found guilty for these thefts at Harvard for all these crimes. He served somewhere around two years. Uh huh. Put up the picture of big white head again. And then a couple years after getting out of prison in 1996, James is back in the news for going back to Princeton and posing as a geology student named Jim McArthur. Guy he's like, hold on, this time I'm gonna wear my sweater a little bit, a little bit tighter. Collar up. British accent he is arrested for trespassing, although it does seem like those charges were dropped in 1997. The following year, he lands in Telluride, Colorado. By now. Nuh. By now he's in his late 30s, working as a carpenter and a contractor, courting the very ritzy clientele that lives there. His passion is still running, though. Can't get rid of that jogger in him. He becomes known for always literally running around town. So even though he is trying to live a lower profile life, his story has actually become widely circulated at this point, and he's actually kind of famous. In 2001, writer David Samuels pens a deep dive on James for The New Yorker. 2003, filmmaker Jesse Moss makes a documentary about him called Con Man. Jesse was a student at Pali while Jay Huntsman went to school there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So James, he works in Telluride for a while, running around town. He's the contractor everybody wants to hire until he's caught after a woman accuses him of stealing her throw pillows. That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, their contractor was here to give me a bid on that crack.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In the floorboard with my nasty throw.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pillows, and now my throat pillows are gone. So she, no joke, goes to his house to confront him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, don't do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And at the front door of his house, she looks past and her throat pillows are on his couch.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, that is the weirdest thing to steal. Like, what, did he shove them up his shirt?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, and here's the thing. You can do anything you want with them because they're yours now. You've stolen them fair and square. So this leads to a search of his property, and per an article from the Denver Post, officers find, quote, a storage locker and a horse trailer crammed with enough fine and odd stolen items to stock a flea market. Among them, moose antlers, medical books, stuffed bears, bicycles, red silk high heels, ooh, rare wood copper pans, power saws, and chilled champagne. All right, they would add up to nearly 7,000 items. And top $100,000 in value.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he was just like a klepto?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, or like he likes to remember things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, sentimental. Oh, that's nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's an old softy and he loves throw pillows. Again, James is arrested and sent to jail. He's released in 2012. Things are quiet for a while, but then In September of 2016, James is caught building what newspapers describe as an illegally constructed camouflaged shack on public land right on the side of a Colorado mountain. Can we take a look at the shack? Oh, it's real close.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh man, that's some Unabomber shit right there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, now listen. So when the officers show up to arrest him, he bolts out a back door. There's more than one door in this shack.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Never forget the chemical engineer inside of James. He's not a dumb man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The back door of your creepy shack?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he's like, let's see, I'm gonna put a door on the front. We've got our side door where I can run out the next time I'm arrested. He goes on the lam for two months and he's caught again a month later trying to build another shack. Not far from the first shack. No, Think we can look at that second shack.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He started.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's less of a shack and more of a lean to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, well, the thing is, he was trying to figure out where to put the third door on this one. And then he was like, God damn it, the cops are here. During this arrest, police fined $17,000 on his person, as well as evidence proving that he'd sold around $70,000 worth of stolen goods on ebay. Because now he's updated his act for the digital age. James is convicted on a handful of new charges and sentenced to six years in prison. Officers working on his case will describe him as, quote, a man of brevity, only responding to the detectives questions in a few short words. He didn't seem malicious, but he did paint himself as a victim of the government and of social hierarchy and. And class structures. Okay, perhaps like you mean school class structures. His long history of deception was masked by a pale, aged and relatively small framed body. And more than anything, he loved to run. That literally is the end of that quote. Can we look at that picture? This is him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There he is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He looks like a teenager. Yeah, little talks, little botox up here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey Bobby, do you have a date to the winter formal? That's me and my crazy hair and eyebrows. And he runs, runs, runs away. In 2019, James Hogue is paroled. As far as anyone knows, he's living somewhere in Colorado. Do you think he came to our Denver shows?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit, what have you. Dad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He impersonated a murderino. He pointed at people. You're a drag along. Whatever. He's still on the radar of police and reporters, and every so often, he resurfaces in the news. The last big sighting seems to be in 2021, when Aspen Police respond to a burglary at an apartment building. But James is not the burglar. Officers, incidentally catch him illegally siphoning electricity with an extension cord from one building's exterior outlet into his car.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't know that's illegal. I would do that. Yeah, it's just out there. Put a fucking lock on it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As one of the many judges who've encountered James Hoag puts it, quote, I've heard nothing about any mental health issues or substance issues or other explanations for his pattern of behavior other than this is a lifestyle of a career criminal from what I can tell, end quote. But his M.O. is certainly fascinating. James seems to be motivated by a unique combination of financial gain and a deep recurring desire to reinvent himself. A misguided need to stick to the man, and of course, his ultimate passion, finding the opportunity to run competitively against teenagers. To some. To some, James has. We're so close. To some, James has almost become a mythical literary figure. Back at Pali, for example, teachers have paired the great Gatsby with the David Samuels New Yorker peach on James, which is hilarious and insane. And director Jesse Moss, the Pali alum who made the documentary Con man, has evoked this same comparison, saying, quote, I love that James, like Gatsby, was able to transcend his low birth to attain this high position, but he was like Gatsby brought low. I think that makes it an extraordinary American story. And that's the story of serial scammer and one time Bay area high schooler J. James Hood. Great job. Thank you. Love a scam, love a scammer, Love a scammer. But always have fun with scammers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Your own scammer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do we have time for a hometown?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on, everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We have five minutes for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, here's Vince there. There he is. It's James H. Ladies and gentlemen.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Hi, how are you? How's it going? Hi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi. Hi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Two tremendous shows. Great job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I. I realize since we're in this neck of the woods, I just want to point out how much we really love it's it. Ice cream sandwiches at our House. They want to send another box over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. Anyone from IT here?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, the IT people.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

But in the meantime, I'm going to be over under that exit sign to pick up whoever you choose.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks, Vince. Thank you. Oops. Thank you. And we're. I guess we're out of hot dogs. So we have a politeness koozie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah. That's nice. Hey there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, who can earn this? Tell them about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. This is the part where someone tells a hometown. As we learned that first night in Denver. Do not come up here talking about some other city in some other state. No one wants to fucking hear that shit. It should be. It should be Bay Area, Northern California, Northern California.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Central. Central. Northern.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We had a real good reading one last night. She did great. Don't be so drunk. You can't tell your own story. It needs a beginning, a middle and end. And ultimately just really be yourself. Okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Who's got a hometown? Don't point at anyone. You fucking swear to God. You're very confident. Okay, go. Go find Vince.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I haven't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was a mistake. That was a huge mistake.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look over there. My Spanx are right there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She stood up and then turned to the rest of the audience, did muscles and squatted. We're fucked right now. We're fucked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is why you gotta do it next time, okay? I hate it. I hate picking people. It's heartbreaking. Stupid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just said they get real mad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They get so mad at you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really mad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here she comes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here she comes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She scurried. Oh, she's the scurrier. She's the. Okay. We like her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We like her. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Huh? Hi, Sydney. Like Australia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sydney.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Syd.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sydney. Everybody say hi to Sydney.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey. How's it going?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, great.

[Guest or Audience Member]

How are you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you a weightlifter?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I am now.

[Guest or Audience Member]

No. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just because you did that pose when you got picked. You did that pose.

[Guest or Audience Member]

I'm ready.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, shit. Yeah, you are. Where are you from? Sydney.

[Guest or Audience Member]

We flew in from Phoenix, Arizona.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Guest or Audience Member]

We love you guys and we're so happy you're here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're so scared for you right now, Sydney.

[Guest or Audience Member]

I'm scared for myself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Guest or Audience Member]

So. Okay. So pretty, pretty local. Bay Area adjacent.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Can we go Lake Tahoe?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's fair. Is that cool? Yeah, absolutely.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Okay. I thought. So this is my mom's story. This is a two part, awful, terrible, shitty story that happened to my mother.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Yes. Awful, terrible. So first part of this story, my mother grew up in Lake Tahoe, so she is about 17 years old. 1973, 1974, Lake Tahoe. So she's walking down the street. She's going to her friend's house, walking. And then a man comes up from behind her and grabs her. Grabs her, pulls her into his vehicle. She, like, fights him. She's like, hey, fuck you, you piece of shit. Gets her. She's 17. She's a baby. I'm 29.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Teeny, tiny baby.

[Guest or Audience Member]

I look like I'm strong. She was stronger than at 17. So grabs her, pulls her into his vehicle. I don't know if it was a van. Don't know if it was a car. But basically, she's fighting him off and then gets into his vehicle. And she's like, fucking you, piece of shit. Throws her in, slams the door. And she's like, all right, I'm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get out.

[Guest or Audience Member]

She reaches for a door handle, and there's no door handle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Guest or Audience Member]

And she's like, he has done this before. And she's like, cool. So now this is, like, my life. And so this piece of shit takes her back to his house and is like, okay, you're gonna, like, be here. And so he, like, beats her and, like, sexually assaults her multiple times over multiple days. Awful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Terrible.

[Guest or Audience Member]

But my mother, she's very smart, and she's like, hey, I'm like, a human. I'm a human. Which, like, kind of doesn't relate to some serial offenders. Some of them, it does. And she's like, I would love to be your girlfriend. I'm really into you. You're really cool. And so he's like, cool. Awesome. So he beats her, sexually assaults her over multiple days. And she's like, I would love to see you after this. Cause I'm really into you. And, like, breaks her ribs. Breaks her cheekbone. Piece of shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Awful.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Terrible. It ends up with a good story, Kind of. Take my word.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Guest or Audience Member]

And so then he's. She's like, yeah, I just, like, need to, like, get back to work. I need to work. I have a normal life. I have a normal job. And he's like, cool. So you'll, like, see me after this, right? And she's like, yeah, I would love to see you. So he lets her go. She's like, bada bing, bada boom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm fucking out. I'm out.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Get me the fuck out of here. So she dips. And she's like, fuck you, you piece of shit. Tells the police. Police never catch him. And I'm like, in armchair. Like, sleuth. I've tried to pin 1970s California crimes. To someone, she's in a true crime, which is why I got into you guys. She very much baptized me by fire, which is why I'm here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Guest or Audience Member]

And so never fucking found the guy. Awful. Terrible. But second part of the story happens in la. I'm sorry, not as local. We can go, boo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Los Angeles, California.

[Guest or Audience Member]

California, not northern. Sorry, L.A. boo. So my mom, a few years later, after living through this, she is like, like, walking down the street, she's going to go buy cake mix for her friend to go bake a birthday cake for her friend. She's walking down the street and she. We're from Phoenix. And she's like, okay. First time we ever experienced a haboob. She's like, it was like this level of visibility, fog, can't see fucking shit, nothing. And she's walking down the sidewalk and she's going. She's 17. She's like, crazy. Ooh, we're going. Going to make a birthday cake. And then she's walking by this ravine and this guy again comes up from behind her, snatches her, pulls her down into this ravine and she's like, fuck you, you piece of shit. This is not fucking happening again. This is not gonna happen again. And she fucking fights him and he's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like trying to pull her down, trying.

[Guest or Audience Member]

To stop sexually fucking assault her again. We're a beautiful fucking family. And she's like, no, fuck you. And so she fucking fights this guy off and is like, hate you. Awful. Terrible. Human. And so she's like, fuck you. Gets away from this guy, goes to the police and is like, hey, again, some other piece of shit, probably straight CIS man, tried to fucking sexually assault me and. Awful. They fucking find the guy, they catch him, and he is like a serial, violent, sexual fucking predator. Predator. Thank you. That's. That's the word. Sexual. Fucking like serial. And now he, because of my mother, he is in prison the rest of his life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Guest or Audience Member]

And I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I'm here.

[Guest or Audience Member]

I'm here so, so, so long because of, like, the strength of my mother.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great job.

[Guest or Audience Member]

It's not going to happen again. That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Guest or Audience Member]

And this is my. In my life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sydney, everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's hear it for Sydney.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great job. Look what you got.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Oh, so worth it.

[Guest or Audience Member]

I mean, thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you, thank you. Take that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Guest or Audience Member]

Thank you so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. Amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, Oakland, night two.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys, we've done it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've really done it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you for supporting us on this little tour that we're doing. Six years later, after we were like, we've been made. Thank you. We've been waiting to do this for so long and it's been so scary. But everyone's been showing up and really, really loud and supportive and you're a community that we love and appreciate so much. So thank you guys for coming.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We love you. Stay sexy and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you Oakland.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillacci.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And follow the show on Instagram at My favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or you can watch us on YouTube, search for my favorite murder, then like and subscribe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Fill in the blank.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you ready?

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Get your Jingle Jammies Crank up the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cheer and make the season official. Find Jingle Jammies and other holiday [e-mail].

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem?

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a single company that sells a.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

On the features you need. Check out Odoo at O D O O dot com.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

That's o d o o dot com.