510 - We're So Real

Summary

My Favorite Murder, Episode 510: “We're So Real”

Release Date: December 11, 2025
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark
Podcast Network: Exactly Right & iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this festive holiday episode of My Favorite Murder, Karen and Georgia dive into a fascinating historical true crime story centered on holiday generosity gone awry: the rise and spectacular fall of “New York’s Santa Claus Man,” John Duvall Gluck. The hosts blend their signature banter with intriguing history, reflect on family holiday traditions (and dilemmas!), and announce their annual December charity donation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Holiday Banter & Listener Dilemmas (00:38–11:45)

• Holiday Season Vibes:
  The hosts joke about decorations, family treats, See’s Candy, and funny dynamics around sharing candy and gifts with loved ones.

  • Family candy box “rules” spark discussion about relationship compromises and personal quirks.
  • Notable quote:
    “One of the struggles with being married, I think, is having to not look like a raccoon when you're midway through a See's candy box.” —Georgia (03:03)

• Holiday Pick-a-Side: Family Gift Opening Rituals (03:28–06:42):
  A listener (Chantelle) asks for advice about differing family traditions for opening presents, leading to a debate about whether you should adapt to the host family's way.

  • Karen: “If you're there, you follow their rules...” (04:55)
  • Georgia: “It's okay if I don't like it.” (05:45)

• Holiday Birthdays & Double Presents (06:44–08:19):
  Another listener (Natasia) complains about getting “conjoined” Christmas/birthday presents. Both hosts agree December babies deserve both.

  • “Double presents is a given.” —Karen (07:32)

• Annual December Charity Donation (08:20–09:06):
  Karen and Georgia share their holiday tradition of donating $10,000 to Feed the Children (“dedicated to ending childhood hunger”), encouraging listeners to join at feedthechildren.org.

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2. Brief Exactly Right Network Updates (09:07–11:10)

Short run-down on other podcasts in the Exactly Right Network, clever holiday merch mentions (including skeleton Santa!), and playful talk about favorite ugly holiday sweaters.

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3. Main Story: The Santa Claus Man, John Duvall Gluck (11:45–47:51)

Background: The Origins of Santa Claus (11:47–16:44)

• Karen details how the American legend of Santa Claus emerged:

  • St. Nicholas: Christian bishop famed for charity in 280 AD Turkey.

  • Traditions spread, blend with European holidays.

  • American Santa myth cemented by “A Visit from St. Nicholas” (a.k.a. “The Night Before Christmas”) in 1822.

  • “Santa Claus? I thought he was Jewish. I thought he was Jewish. Turkey. Oh, you know, not far away.” —Georgia & Karen (12:59)

Letters to Santa & the Postal Service (16:44–19:21)

• By the 1900s, American children flood the postal system with letters to Santa addressed everywhere from “the Clouds” to “Heaven.”

• At first, these letters wind up in the Dead Letter Office, but postal workers, unable to throw away these heartfelt requests, start fulfilling wishes with their own time and money.

  • “I'm gonna cry right fucking now.” —Georgia on learning that postal workers bought toys for kids (18:19)

Establishment of The Santa Claus Association (19:32–23:13)

• In 1913, newcomer John Duvall Gluck (born on Christmas) volunteers to organize responses to thousands of kids’ letters.
• He founds the Santa Claus Association and grows it rapidly with help from wealthy donors and volunteers.
  • The organization matches deserving children’s letters with New York’s affluent, who purchase and sometimes deliver gifts personally.
  • Letters indicating abuse/poverty are referred to city welfare.

Expansion and Early Red Flags (25:26–31:38)

• Growth: Gluck moves the headquarters to prestigious locations, mingles with the elite, and enjoys glowing press.
• Fundraising Doubts: Despite minimal operational costs (given donors provide presents, volunteers handle logistics), Gluck aggressively fundraises — but there’s no accounting and he handles all finances solo.
• Embellishments: Gluck claims false credentials: calling himself “Esq.” (lawyer) and boasting of Secret Service ties.

The Grand Santa Claus Building Scheme (31:38–36:18)

• Gluck announces plans for an opulent “Santa Claus Building” in Manhattan, billed as a national holiday monument (with marble, stained glass, charitable kitchens, a toy emporium, even a rooftop garden!).

• Fundraising for the never-built building goes on for a decade, but there’s no evidence of progress.

  • Notable quote:
    “There is a world—there's another timeline where this all went beautifully.” —Karen (32:28)

Financial Scandal & Collapse (38:09–47:23)

• Growing Suspicion:
  In the late 1920s, city welfare commissioner Bird Kohler audits the charity, finding forged staff, nonexistent financial records, and evidence that Gluck had embezzled nearly all donations — millions by today’s standards.
• Aftermath:

  • The charity collapses in 1928, Gluck flees to Miami, and the post office launches Operation Santa Claus, now a national program answering kids’ letters.

  • Gluck is never prosecuted, likely due to the Great Depression’s overshadowing of the scandal.

  • “He gets away with it. He’s never prosecuted for any financial crimes...” —Karen (45:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• (03:03) Georgia:
  “One of the struggles with being married...is having to not look like a raccoon when you're midway through a See's candy box...”

• (04:55) Karen:
  “If you're there, you follow their rules...”

• (07:32) Karen:
  “Double presents is a given.”

• (18:19) Georgia:
  “I'm gonna cry right fucking now.” (On postal workers fulfilling kids’ Santa letters out of kindness)

• (32:28) Karen:
  “There is a world—there's another timeline where this all went beautifully.”

• (45:23) Karen:
  “He gets away with it. He’s never prosecuted for any financial crimes...”

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Important Timestamps

• 00:38–03:01: Light holiday banter, See’s Candy stories
• 03:28–06:42: Pick-a-side on family gift opening & emotional gymnastics
• 06:44–08:19: December birthdays “double presents” debate
• 08:20–09:06: Charity donation announcement
• 11:45–16:44: Santa Claus: from St. Nicholas to American icon
• 19:32–23:13: Birth of The Santa Claus Association
• 25:26–31:38: Growth, early warnings, unaccounted fundraising
• 31:38–36:18: The grand “Santa Claus Building” fundraising scam
• 38:09–47:23: Downfall: audit, embezzlement revealed, charity collapses
• 47:51–end: Hosts reflect, wrap-up, “focus on the Santa Claus building in your heart”

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Final Thoughts & Tone

The episode is classic MFM: sharp, irreverent, deeply empathetic, and rich in bizarre history. Karen and Georgia keep things light even when discussing fraud, with relatable asides and a running “we’re so real” theme about human foibles and holiday pressures. They cap the story with a plea for generosity and authenticity (“open the door of the Santa Claus building in your heart”), a perfect send-off for the season.

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Stay Sexy & Don’t Get Murdered!
(and don’t run fraudulent Santa charities)

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Transcript

[A]

This is exactly right.

[B]

It's the season to come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks. Warm up with a creamy caramel brulee latte, get festive with an iced gingerbread chai, or share a velvety peppermint mocha. Together is the best place to be at Starbucks.

[C]

Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.

[A]

That's Georgia Heartstar. That's Karen Kilcarriff, and it is the holiday season.

[C]

Yay. We decorated. Except by we, I mean not we, other people decorated.

[A]

Molly, our producer, decorated. Gorgeous.

[C]

Looks so pretty.

[A]

It looks really nice. There's kind of. It has like an ice skating vibe. Totally, right?

[C]

Yeah. Mm. What are you looking forward to with our little holiday break coming up?

[A]

I can't wait to see Melania's decorations. I can't wait to see what she's doing to bring the spirit of the season into the White House.

[C]

Mm.

[A]

I can't wait for those cookies that are peanut butter cookies with Hershey's Kisses on top.

[C]

Yeah. Do you know I got a Seas Advent calendar. Vince got me a See's Advent calendar with different candies.

[A]

And every day.

[C]

Every day has a different. It's the cutest thing I've ever seen.

[A]

That's the best.

[C]

But you know.

[A]

What did you bring me? Candy.

[C]

Vince went into the See's candy at the Americana, and there was a murderino working.

[A]

What?

[C]

And she and her sister. Did you see how heavy that was? Erica and Sylvia and I think Sylvia worked there, gave us a fucking bag of straight up See's candy.

[A]

Oh, my God. I can smell it.

[C]

Just put your face in there. No, actually, maybe don't do that. That's germs. Smelling.

[A]

Smelling.

[C]

I know. And there's one right there. That's caramel and marshmallow. I kind of tell by looking at them what they are now.

[A]

Yeah, I'm pretty good at it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I think the circular ones, I don't know as well because they're usually truffley, but. Sorry. There's a square one over here. Can I eat it?

[C]

Well, do you want to eat that?

[A]

Oh, I can't. God damn it.

[C]

I don't know why I gave that to you before we started. Like, I should have given this to you before.

[A]

Let me put it right there. Sylvia, Erica, thank you so much.

[C]

Thanks, y'.

[A]

All. That's the best news of all time.

[C]

I know. Except friends at Seas for two hours. Yeah, I know.

[A]

Friends at seas.

[C]

Friends at Seas are.

[A]

I got a box of Seas from my accountant. Like, you know when you get a gift At Christmas. And it was just a £1 box of seas. I opened it, I was like, oh, that's really nice. I opened it, I was like, am I going somewhere? Should I give that?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I was like, oh, no, I'm fully free to eat this at will.

[C]

A see's candy box to yourself.

[A]

Poke your finger right through the bottom.

[C]

Eat a bite of each of them.

[A]

Never eat one you don't want again.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

It was a dream.

[C]

That is one of the struggles with being married, I think, is having to not look like a raccoon when you're midway through a stee's candy box. And like, I don't want Vince, because in my family, you take a bite and you put it back. Like that's what you like. You open it and there's so everyone could taste them. And Vince is like, what are you.

[A]

You just said for. I was smelling it. And you're worried about germs.

[C]

That's true, that's true. Family germs are different.

[A]

You know what you're getting with those people.

[C]

Actually, this is a good segue. I have a holiday pick aside.

[A]

Oh, perfect.

[C]

Do you wanna do it real quick?

[A]

I love it. What a way to celebrate, right?

[C]

So we do pick a side where we just tell people if they're right or wrong and argue about it. So here's a good holiday one. This is a DM on Instagram from Chantelle. My family has always made present opening a big deal, and it's important not to rip through them all and take the time to say thank you after each gift. Multiple people can open at once, but once you have it open, you show the group, say thanks, and move on. My partner's family thinks that it takes too long and will open multiple presents without telling anyone what he got. It's not to be rude and he is thankful. However, it messes up everyone's vibe and I want to know what you got. Hopefully this year we can come up with a game plan before opening begins. I mean, the. The amount of emotional Tetris we put ourselves through to like, not be be like, that sucks. You shouldn't do that.

[A]

It's like they don't understand what Christmas is because Christmas is. Yes, you're no longer 8 years old. Yeah, but Christmas is being excited about the box, trying to figure out what someone might have given you Opening it up. It's a planner. You're like, thanks. And then you go through it because it's still a gift.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

But you're waiting for the Big one or whatever. And that is just the. Like, isn't that the tradition?

[C]

I think not doing the rules of the family whose house you're at is weird.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, whatever it is, if you're there, you follow their rules or it's weird.

[A]

But also, I think. I don't know. If someone has a di. Is diametrically opposed to how you celebrate a major holiday, then it is like, what camp is that?

[C]

Right.

[A]

It's almost like everyone got up. Like, the second you're done with presents, you just go watch TV in your room. Like, what's happening? Don't you wanna.

[C]

I think that I wonder how many of these we've done that are like, you should break up, that they're asking for legit advice and we're just like, that's not the right person for you then.

[A]

Or maybe, like, if that's kind of like more his speed, he gets to do that at home and then when he's somewhere else or when he's at that house.

[C]

Yeah, of course. But we shouldn't have to tell him that. He should if he doesn't know that.

[A]

No, you're right.

[C]

We shouldn't have to tell him.

[A]

I don't think this is. There's a side here.

[C]

I think that this person's doing. What is it called, Emotional gymnastics. To not be like, this really upsets me and I don't like it. And it's okay if I don't like it.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know what I mean? Without me saying, he's bad or, you know. Yeah.

[A]

Because maybe it doesn't even really upset you. It's just like, what are you doing? Why would you want to do it that way? I think that's, like, the basis of every fight is why are you. Why do you want to do things this way? You're the one doing it. Is this pleasant?

[C]

Yeah. Are you getting more out of this than you would if you just, like, followed the rules of the family?

[A]

You have to go off and privately open. Maybe it's somebody that gets embarrassed and can't talk about their feeling of, like, spotlight embarrassment.

[C]

Yeah. It can be really awkward and, like, embarrassing to have it on the spotlight on you, but.

[A]

And then if you're not grateful, it looks like it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Or some storyline, maybe.

[C]

Oh, shit. We're empathizing now.

[A]

Do you wanna hear mine?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This one is. It says DM on Instagram from Natasia, but that's spelled N A, S T A, S S I A. And the first S is a dollar sign.

[C]

Yeah, girl.

[A]

We've got a baddie on her hands and it says December baby here. My birthday is on 28th December. I've always believed that I deserve Christmas and birthday presents. My friend's sister shares the same birthday and they give her conjoined Christmas birthday. To me, that's crazy. I wholeheartedly believe that December babies deserve dou for being born around the holidays. Change my mind. No way. I'm standing ground.

[C]

That's fair.

[A]

I'm standing my ground.

[C]

Everyone gets a Christmas and a birthday. Why shouldn't you? I would just wait a couple days, you know, after Christmas to do it right. Or like before. Do it before or after.

[A]

Double presents is a given.

[C]

Yeah. Or like, but if it's like not, then the present is like fucking better than everyone else.

[A]

It's always a bike. It's always a 10 speed bike.

[C]

It's always a motorcycle.

[A]

Yeah, it's one of those motorcycles that kids can ride on the street now. They don't need helmets and they don't need.

[C]

It's terrifying.

[A]

There's no. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

I think that's fair to want both those things.

[A]

Yes, absolutely.

[C]

Your birthday week is Christmas. That's fucking bullshit. And Christmas would want presents if it was your birthday that everyone was celebrating. That's right.

[A]

And also Christmas would want more attention if everyone was paying attention to you while Christmas sat in the corner.

[C]

Yeah, I would have a New Year's birthday party. That would be fun.

[A]

Oh, just like build the momentum all the way just to follow that up. Should we give our December donation?

[C]

Oh, yes. Speaking of giving and presents.

[A]

Let's do it. So as you might know by this point, we've had a holiday tradition for the last three years where we make donations throughout the month of December, giving to charities that make a real difference in people's lives.

[C]

So Today we're donating $10,000 to Feed the Children. They're dedicated to ending childhood hunger here at home and around the world.

[A]

Feed the Children provides food, school supplies, clean water, household and hygiene essentials to help families thrive. And in 2024 alone, they distributed more than 80.6 million pounds of food and essentials across the United States.

[C]

Incredible. If you'd like to join us in supporting their work, head to feedthechildren.org and if donating isn't possible right now, you can also explore volunteer [e-mail] there's always.

[A]

A way to give.

[C]

Love that.

[A]

Yeah, well, we have a network. Do you want to talk about it really quick before we get into it. This is a solo episode, so we just get our business taken care of.

[C]

So real quick on the Exactly Right Network. This week on the 9th, Hannah and Pasha look into a 2017 tip about a suspicious co worker that led FBI agent Mark Hastbacka to expose a serial con artist. They break down how he uncovered her long running scheme.

[A]

And then over on Brief Recess, Michael and Melissa sit down with political satirist Walter Masterson for a sharp, lively conversation about politics, performance, and the art of calling out the absurd.

[C]

And on Dear Movies, I Love youe, Millie and Casey take a look at the very best films of 2020 25. Their favorites of the year, standout first time watches and what they think 2026 will bring.

[A]

Also, if you're looking for a last minute gift, the Exactly Right store has everything you need to make the holidays merry and fright. Check out our new skeleton Santa unisex crew neck. Who's got it?

[C]

I got it. This is so good.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Oh, my. I feel like you could wear this year round and just be like the coolest kid entirely.

[A]

There's just the whole vibe of it.

[C]

If you wear that to an ugly sweater party for Christmas, you'd win.

[A]

You'd win hands down. There's also the skeleton ornament.

[C]

I have him.

[A]

Oh, yeah, the little guy. He's ridiculous.

[C]

You wanna put him on our tree?

[A]

The skeleton ornament is gonna turn out to be like an heirloom that gets passed down that works perfectly in front of the other one. That's the way you do it.

[C]

Toxic Masculinity Ornament.

[A]

That's a beautiful ornament. And it looks very fragile, but it's actually not.

[C]

Does it look to you like I realized I saw the video the other day and it looks like the baby bell cheeses.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, that'd be Baby bell cheese as an ornament is such a good idea.

[C]

Yeah, they gotta have that like some kind of. Okay.

[A]

And then there's also this guy. Toxic Masculinity sweatshirt.

[C]

Right. And then also of course, the Mothman plushie keychain.

[A]

So precious.

[C]

Hanging on the tree.

[A]

So typical. Although it's kind of heavy.

[C]

I think it's too heavy.

[A]

What if we put him right here?

[C]

Yes. Perfect. Oh, cute.

[A]

He's just gonna sit down.

[C]

Love it.

[A]

Yeah, that's good.

[C]

Yeah. So if you ever wanted to match your tree now you can head to exactlyrightstore.com to shop now and order please.

[A]

By December 14th so that you can get your items by December 25th.

[C]

Thank you guys for doing that.

[A]

Yes. We love to make fun merch for you.

[B]

The holidays are back at Starbucks. So share the season with a peppermint mocha, Starbucks signature espresso, velvety mocha, and cool peppermint notes topped with whipped cream and dark chocolate curls together is the best place to be at Starbucks.

[C]

Okay, you're solo today.

[A]

It's solo time, and I hope you like this. It's a Christmas story. Oh, and it's. Well, you'll see. This story starts. It's mid December, the holiday season. The world is awash in a sea of red and green. And along with many other major winter cultural observations, Christmas is here. But my story is from an era when our modern holiday mania began. The early 1900s in New York City. Okay. And there was one man who took people's holiday cheer and goodwill and lots and lots of their money and used it all to make himself into a Jazz age celebrity. This is the story of New York's Santa Claus man, John Duvall Gluck.

[C]

Wow. I've never heard this one.

[A]

So Maren used the writing and research of a writer named Alex Palmer, who published the book the Santa Claus Man. And John Gluck is his great granduncle. Wow. So it's a family story.

[C]

Cool.

[A]

The rest of the sources are in our show notes. Okay, so we go. Let's go back to the origins of Santa Claus. If you would for just one moment, please.

[C]

This Jew needs to know. Right?

[A]

Don't you wonder where Santa Claus is originally from?

[C]

Santa Claus? I thought he was Jewish. I thought he was Jewish.

[A]

Turkey. Oh, you know, not far away. Sometime around 280 A.D. a series of legends emerge about a selfless Christian bishop named Nicholas who roams the countryside giving away the fortune he inherited at birth. That's different. In what is maybe the most famous of these stories, Nicholas tosses gold to three young sisters to save them from being sold into slavery by their destitute father.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Over the years, these stories spread throughout Europe, and Nicholas becomes known as the patron saint of children. Wow.

[C]

You don't hear a lot about charitable billionaires these days, do you?

[A]

No. No. I bet you his dad didn't even get into the B's he was down in. That would have been insane low ems back then. 280. Yeah, 260.

[C]

What would be in today's money, though?

[A]

Having to calculate today's money from 280 A.D. no, no. The calculator just snaps in half. Okay, so St. Nicholas's feast day is December 6th, and that's when it's said that he died, so it becomes a very lucky day for many Europeans and a day where adults bring little candies or modest gifts to children in the Spirit of St. Nick. This is of course, a couple weeks before December 25, which is the day Christians observe the birth of Christ. So over the years, basically those two days blend together with the birth of Christ winning out and St Nicholas coming to that moment. Interesting.

[C]

He just becomes a mascot instead of the actual reason for the season.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[C]

Oh, that's gotta stink.

[A]

He gets blended. But then as centuries pass, he remains so popular and beloved that even after the Protestant Reformation, when devotion to saints fades across much of Europe, you know, the Protestants, they stripped out all that stuff for sure.

[C]

Heresy, all that shit.

[A]

But old Saint Nick endures. This is particularly true in the Netherlands, where he's known by the truncated nickname Sinterklaas. And it's through the Dutch settlers emigrating to New York in the 18th century that we first met St. Nick here in America.

[C]

Got it.

[A]

So I don't know why I can't read today.

So I should just do it from memory. So in 1809, the legend of Sleepy Hollow author Washington Irving publishes a satirical history of New York city that depicts St. Nick as a kind of paternal mascot for Dutch New Yorkers. And basically he's described as a pipe smoking, gift giving man who rides through the sky in a flying wagon. And around the same time, the woke of the New York Historical Society named John Pintard campaigned to actually make St. Nicholas the city's patron saint. It doesn't work. What finally catapults St. Nicholas into the American zeitgeist is a single poem written in 1822 by another New Yorker, Clement Clarke Moore, called a visit from St. Nicholas. Now we kind of know it better as the Night Before Christmas.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So in it, Moore picks the version of St. Nicholas that's still with us today. The plump, rosy cheeked, white bearded man who flies around in a sleigh pulled by eight reindeer. You know, all of this delivering gifts to children. The poem is an instant hit when it comes out and it spreads far beyond New York and it actually never really fades in popularity. So people like latch onto it and we've never let it go. So this brings us back to the early 1900s. St. Nicholas, now better known as Santa Claus, has become a mainstream American icon and tradition. Department stores are booming at this time, the early 1900s. Advertising's taking off. So every holiday season, Santa Claus appears in newspaper ads and elaborate window displays.

[C]

Wow. Just takes off, just like that.

[A]

Yeah. It's this time of year, right? Everybody. He actually becomes so ubiquitous that virtually every American child knows who Santa is and what he does. And they start to write him letters asking for what they most want for Christmas. This is before the concept of the North Pole was discovered to be Santa's home. And so most kids think that he lives behind the moon or somewhere in the clouds. But over time, kids start giving their Christmas lists to their mail carriers. Suddenly, thousands of. So this happened basically just culturally, by itself.

[C]

Amazing.

[A]

Thousands of letters addressed.

[C]

Went viral. Christmas went viral.

[A]

Yeah. But the hardest way possible in the early 1900s.

[C]

Totally, totally.

[A]

So thousands of letters addressed to Santa Claus, the clouds, or even heaven are circulating through the U.S. postal system, most of them winding up in Washington, D.C. in what's known as the dead letter office.

[C]

Whoa.

[A]

Yep. So Wonderful album by R.E.M. this is basically a graveyard for the nation's undeliverable mail. And per policy, these letters either need to be returned to sender or destroyed. But postal workers can't bring themselves to throw a child's letter to Santa over it.

[C]

I was gonna say send it back. That's what they couldn't do because then it's like, there's nobody at this fuckin heaven.

[A]

They basically see that there is this issue where it's like, we throw it away and it goes unanswered. We send it back and hearts are broke.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So.

Many spend their own time and money buying the gifts on the list and then delivering them. Some postal workers loop in local churches and charities to help them out.

[C]

Okay, stop it. I'm gonna cry right fucking now.

[A]

I mean, I've never heard this before.

[C]

It's so above and beyond. I can't even believe it. I thought you were gonna say they write back to them. No, they fucking.

[A]

They do it. They fill it out. And also that idea of, like, cause the postman is really a part of your life, but it's just very specific, you know, kind of out. You know them.

[C]

Yeah. The connection doesn't have to be there. It just happened. And they're like, great, let's do it.

[A]

Let's do this. Let's get this kid exactly what they want.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Okay. So these beautiful but technically forbidden acts of kindness become so commonplace that in the early 1990s, you can't open other people's mail. Yeah, it's not allowed, but it's like Santa. Yeah. So it becomes so commonplace that in the early 1910s, the Postmaster General has to step in and Change the rules. Not only are local postmasters now formally authorized to open letters to Santa, but they can bundle them all together and hand them off to charities.

[C]

Fuck.

[A]

To make sure people don't always suck.

[C]

Like, that's the thing. You gotta keep in mind, this holiday.

[A]

Season, these are the stories.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, here's the turn. After 10 years, we're gonna start telling only good people's stories.

[C]

Wait, I don't have one of those today, though. My story's not that. So then after that, in the new year 2026.

[A]

Later year 15. Okay, so this is when a 35 year old new Yorker named John Duvall Gluck comes into the picture. So John D. Born on Christmas Day. So we know where he would be in that argument. Double presents. And he is born to a family that loves the holidays. His parents are very good at Christmas. They've embraced the giving spirit. They actually have a Gluck family tradition. One of the men in their family plays Santa Claus every year. And it said plays. I don't know if that meant like, for the community or just at home, but it's like, clearly they're into it. So when John hears about the Postal Service's new policy on Santa letters, there may have been part of him that wanted to help spread like his family had taught him to always do. But it seems John's also one of those kind of people who wants people to pat him on the back for doing the nice thing more than they want to do the nice thing.

[C]

Virtue signaling.

[A]

That's right. But in 1910, there's no signaling then.

[C]

Cause they didn't have that yet.

[A]

Virtue telegraph.

[C]

Sos.

[A]

Telegraphing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So John inherits his father's customs brokerage business at a young age. So he makes a very nice living. But he has his own insecurities, as we all do. He is the of his four brothers. And he seems to overcompensate for it by being a big ham. He's also balding, which is likely difficult for him.

[C]

He's a short king.

[A]

He's a short bald king.

[C]

Like, fucking own it. And it's hot if you own it. It's sexy.

[A]

It works every time. But what he does instead of owning it is he grows an impressive, meticulously maintained mustache to make up for.

[C]

That'd work on me, would it? I don't know.

[A]

Just a big old.

[C]

Back then. Yes. Not now. Now it's just like, what are you, a fucking mixologist? But back then that would have worked on me.

[A]

I don't know. Honestly. Bald Beard is my number one combination.

[C]

Bald beard, beer belly. Like Vince fucking Averill, I will marry the shit out of you. The moment I saw him across the room and he was wearing a Fred Perry collared T shirt, I was like, that's his look. That's my fucking. And, like, cool tennis shoes. Like, come on.

[A]

Yeah, that's all we want.

[C]

That's all we want.

[A]

It really is. Cause it says a lot about what's going on. Okay.

[C]

Sorry to make it about me.

[A]

So while John loves to brag about being born on Christmas, it is clearly bittersweet for him because it steals his birthday thunder every year. He was probably very jealous when he watched family members putting on that Santa suit and getting all the attention. And he wanted it for himself.

[C]

He wanted to put on his birthday suit and get all that attention.

[A]

He'd be like, look at my mustache. So when New York's postmaster starts to formalize how letters to Santa should be handled, John pitches himself as the person to handle it. Cool. Pointing to his customs brokerage background as proof that he understands logistics, he claims he can process the letters and deliver all those gifts no problem.

[C]

Please tell me he does it and everything's okay and he doesn't steal money from the.

[A]

I'll tell you this. It's the worst bad version of what we're usually waiting for at the end of a story like this.

[C]

The worst part. It's the worst.

[A]

No, no, it's the sorry, least bad. Okay, I said worst bad.

[C]

Yeah, that's like. He murders children.

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[C]

Okay, so least bad's fine. Okay.

[A]

Least bad. He's the inverse of Albert Fish.

[C]

I can handle it.

[A]

So he gets the green light. Now he's in charge of thousands of wish lists from children all over New York to Santa. So in 1913, John Gluck officially launches what's called the Santa Claus association out of the back room of a restaurant called Henckel's Chop shop on West 36th street in Manhattan.

[C]

Take me there.

[A]

Just the smell. Oh, my God. Sorry. But I just saw this girl. Actually, I don't know who it was, but they were going around New York, and there are little vending machines that look like old stamp vending machines. Yes.

[C]

I love those, like, sticker ones, but.

[A]

Yes, but there's art in them. And so this somebody is making, like, original watercolors.

[C]

That's incredible.

[A]

Of anything you'd want in New York. And so she kept. They were a dollar, so she'd have to get the quarter. So she'd like. We Found another one in this place. And we found another one at the end. She goes, I had one more for my last one or whatever. And she opens it up and it's an everything bagel. And it is the most perfect little.

[C]

Like, drawing of an everything bagel.

[A]

A drawing. This perf. I don't know where to put it. Down here. Up here. It's like this big and it just says everything, exclamation. It's like, that's a tattoo. Yes.

[C]

I'd get that tattoo.

[A]

This person was going around doing that and then they were meeting up with other people and trading like, we got this one already.

[C]

That's fucking cute. I want that to happen to me. Except I don't want to drive her across town. So I'll do it in New York.

[A]

Right. It makes me want to go to New York.

[C]

So good during the holidays. The best.

[A]

So good. Nardy. Okay. So John's running the Santa Claus association out of this fairly modest setup, but he's proud. He makes it known that reporters are always welcome to drop by, and he's always ready with a punchy quote when they get there. And that results in John getting a lot of feel good coverage in city newspapers about the Santa Claus Association. Okay. Readers take of this charismatic man who seems to exemplify the spirit of St. Nicholas. So here's how the Santa Claus association works. In December, the postal service hands over several heavy bags containing all the undeliverable letters to Santa written by young New Yorkers, usually well over 10,000 pieces of mail. Jesus. Then John's volunteers, mostly society women or secretaries loaned out by local businesses, start to sort through them. And they read each letter. They categorize it into different stacks. If they get any repeats from the same child, they pull em out. So duplicates don't go in. Any letters that describe hunger, homelessness, or abuse are forwarded to the Public Charities Commission. And those are investigated by city workers there.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I know. Any that seems suspicious, like maybe an adult wrote them, they go into their own pile for further review. About 70% of these letters pass inspection. Then they're matched with the donors from New York Society who purchase the gifts and then have the option to deliver them them.

[C]

I want to do this. Why do I sign up for this?

[A]

I know.

[C]

I think I'd be good at it. The letter part, filing. I'm really good at filing, filing and.

[A]

Just putting things in like, you belong over here.

[C]

Oh, my God. I'm so good at categorizing things. Like, fucking give me something I'll fucking clatter.

[A]

You want toys? You want money? Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But most owners just send the presents back to the Santa Claus association, which is then tasked with getting them to the right household. It's a huge undertaking. Obviously. John quickly realizes he needs way more manpower to actually receive the letters, wrap the gifts, deliver the gifts. Serendipitously days into the Santa Claus Association's soft launch amid all its glowing recent press. So I guess, sorry, it was a hard launch. Leaders from the American Boy Scouts reach out.

[C]

Great.

[A]

They offer hundreds of scouts to help with wrapping and delivering packages. It sounds lovely, but it's actually a very smart PR move because the American Boy Scouts have had a terrible reputation at this point.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

Because this is not the Boy Scouts of America.

[C]

Right.

[A]

This is the American Boy Scouts. Not the same group. And actually, Boy Scouts of America has since rebranded as Scouting America.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So just to keep it all.

[C]

You've seen that documentary.

[A]

Oh, so bad.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Both organizations come out of the so called scouting movement of the early 20th century. They have very different MOS. The Boy Scouts of America. Currently Scouting America is simply geared at creating good citizens. Whereas American Boy Scouts, the one who are offering their help to John Gluck, is geared at training young men for military service.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

The American Boy Scouts arm their young Scouts with actual guns.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Which has expectedly tragic consequences. In 1912, the year before the Santa Claus association is established, a 12 year old Scout fatally shoots a 9 year old boy in the Bronx after the younger boy makes a comment about his uniform.

[C]

Oh my God. I mean, what happens when you give children guns? They shoot each other. It's like, like basic fucking math.

[A]

Pretty clear. So membership noes dives following this tragedy, but the American Boy Scouts hold firm on its gun toting policy for children.

[C]

All right, guys just fucking keep on keeping on.

[A]

Yeah. So what they try to do is a little damage control by changing its name to the United States Boy Scouts. That doesn't really work. So then they look for other ways. And here they find the Santa Claus Association. Okay. Given how scandalized the group is at the time, people in John's position would have turned their offer down. But John jumps at the opportunity because not only can the Scouts handle deliveries at no cost to him, but he figures they can also help verify the letters that are in further review by going door to door to see if they are actually families in need.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So he also likes the idea that these troops of boys all in uniform, are working on behalf of the Santa Claus Association. Like it's his Little army. He thinks it gives the whole thing a patriotic, wholesome energy that will play well in the press. So on Christmas of 1913, the Santa Claus association successfully delivers to more than 13,000 New York City children. Wow. Yeah. This generates even more good press. And almost overnight, John becomes a local celebrity. He's suddenly rubbing elbows with politicians and society families, even early Hollywood stars. Within just a few years, the Santa Claus association becomes a full fledged part of New York. Increasingly glitzy holiday season. Everybody wants to be a part of it. It's said that John's donor list includes members of the Vanderbilt and Astor families, and eventually even presidents William Harding and Calvin Coolidge.

[C]

You know, when you have those numbers, like 13,000 children, like, you're allowed to be a little bit of a cocky, look at me, look at me person. It's okay.

[A]

I think you're right. Cause he got it done. He said he was gonna do it, and then he actually did it.

[C]

Yeah. And the more attention he gets, the more people will contribute. So I'm fine with him being a fucking and braggart or whatever.

[A]

It's for such a good cause, like, who cares? So now even more people wanna volunteer their time with the association. So to accommodate the increase in volunteers, as well as the ever increasing numbers of letters to Santa, John moves his headquarters into the Hotel Astor in Times Square and then into the Woolworth Building, the tallest in the world at the time.

[C]

All right.

[A]

Of course, the genius of John's whole system is that the Santa Claus association doesn't have to spend very much money to actually fulfill its mission. Volunteers are donating their time, the scouts donate the labor, and of course, the donors pay for all the presents. Yet John is constantly fundraising. He says it's for operational basics like postage stamps and packing supplies, but these are fairly inexpensive purchases, even when you buy them in bulk. But John's fundraising is limitless. But it's the Santa Claus Association. It brings joy to New York City's children. It gets great press. It has solid endorsements from high society. So no one's asking any questions about where all this money's going. But if someone were to dig into John, they would see some red flags. Not only is he the only one handling the purse strings at the Santa Claus association, where they're ostensibly raising like, near millions of dollars even back then. But he also seems to be getting enormously wealthy himself, far beyond what a normal business owner would. He's also developing a slippery relationship with the truth and some people. One example, he describes himself in a publication as A sociologist. He also claims to have degrees from elite universities in the US and abroad. He only actually has a high school diploma. He also starts putting ESQ after his name in some documents, implying that he's a lawyer. False flag.

[C]

You can't do that.

[A]

Esquire.

[C]

Sorry. Not false flag.

[A]

Oh, stolen dollar.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Then he starts telling people he has worked with the Secret Service, which is.

[C]

This should be a secret.

[A]

Yeah. First of all, it's a secret. Secondly, why are you li. Why is that the lie that all liars love to say?

[C]

Right.

[A]

I'm with the government. Black ops.

So now it's 1915, the Santa Claus Association's third year in operation. John Gluck makes a big Christmas Day announcement to a group of reporters declaring that he's going to build a permanent home for the Santa Claus association in midtown Manhattan. He's gonna call it the Santa Claus Building. And he promises that it'll be, quote, the most unique building in America and a, quote, national monument to the Christmas spirit. Okay. There is a world. There's another timeline where this all went beautifully.

[C]

Totally. All year they operated as, like, a charitable foundation for children in need, giving.

[A]

Children in need what they need. And we all went up from there.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But now we're in the Donald Trump timeline where we steal from children's charities.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

And when I say we, I mean you. Okay.

[C]

How did you know? Who told you?

[A]

When did you get that job? Okay, so Gluck claims that this building will be made of white marble. It will have a deep arched entrance and a massive 50 foot stained glass window of Santa Claus himself.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

The facade will feature scenes from St. Nicholas from around the world, sculpted by artists from those companies.

[C]

That'd be cute.

[A]

From those countries. Jesus Christ. I wanna stop podcasting so bad.

[C]

We're almost there. One more day of recording. We're almost done for this.

[A]

So close to 2025.

[C]

We're so close, you guys. You've got this. When you finish that, you're done.

[A]

I'm just gonna keep my eyes on the page and just get through it.

[C]

Okay? Leave that. Leave that in, please. It's a reality.

[A]

So, yeah, we're so real. Soon he gets some famous artists committed to this project. John says the ground floor of the building will be devoted to different charitable organizations, including the Santa Claus association, but other ones as well. Then there's gonna be an auditorium where plays will be produced, as well as an enormous kitchen that could provide meals for a thousand people at a time. He's just talking. The second floor Will be filled with toys from around the world. Some of these will be donated to children in need, but others will be for sale. John also promises a rooftop garden. He's like FA or Schwartz, but also Nordstrom cafe. It's gonna be amazing.

[C]

He's like that one swindler that did the whole.

[A]

The Anna Delvey there. She was like, super pretending to be rich.

[C]

Yeah. And she was gonna build a club, Like, a private, like, members only club in New York. And it had all these crazy things. And it's like, that's not real.

[A]

She's Santa Claus association.

[C]

She tries to Santa Claus that building.

[A]

I mean, it is that kind. Basically, this guy's just thinking up the mall. It sounds like. Okay. He promises a rooftop garden and a swanky restaurant to boot. As writer Alex Palmer reports, quote, the Santa Claus building would blend spiritual ideals and consumerism so completely as to make them indistinguishable.

[C]

Can't happen.

[A]

Yeah. Sorry. They're not the same. So Gluck's announcement makes headlines beyond New York, with newspapers reporting on the Santa Claus building as far away as Kentucky and Oregon. But all that marble and stained glass will not come cheap. John estimates that the building will cost in the ballpark of $300,000 to construct, which is what, in today's money, $300,000.

[C]

In 1915 is going to be. Hold on. Let me think. Da da da da da da. 975.

[A]

$10 million.

[C]

Holy shit.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No, it's 2025. And that makes sense. Like, every time we do this, it's like, that's not. That doesn't add up from what happened last time in 1915. You know what mean?

[A]

I. Yes.

[C]

I'm not yelling at you, but, like, that's why we hate this.

[A]

It's just never do we ever go up that high from stories from 1915. I think we've broken a barrier here.

[C]

Like, I try to be logical for real, but then it's like, just never imagine that our economy's not about logic. I don't think. You know what? That's not on me.

[A]

Yeah. That's not. You forgot about the great depression's coming up.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

A bunch of 2008's gonna be in there. Oh, shit. Ooh. So for the next decade, John fundraises for the Santa Claus building year round. We've gotta make a building for Santa clau. He publishes newspaper ads, sends out mailers which prominently feature renderings of the building. So it's real. Real. Here's the blueprint.

[C]

Yeah. For Real.

[A]

He hosts ritzy over the top galas that bring the rich, wealthy and charitable together in the name of giving.

[C]

I love a gala.

[A]

I mean, so good. Those real long earrings, the longest gloves.

[C]

Tiny food on silver trays.

[A]

Earrings.

[C]

Wow.

Little quiches.

[A]

Take my money, give it to me gala. When's the last gala you got to go to?

[C]

We went to the Ronald McDonald House Gala like two years ago. Vince and I bought a table and had all our like couple of our friends at the table.

[A]

We partied.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Nice. It was really lovely for a beautiful foundation.

[C]

Yeah. Cause you know he used to work there, so like he knows it's legit.

[A]

That's when I first met you guys.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

You're a young scrappy couple.

[C]

What about you?

[A]

The last gala? Uh huh. I went to one for Petaluma schools, but I think it was like two years ago or more.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Just telling you about this gala because writer Alex Palmer reports that in 1924, at a Santa Claus association party hosted on the roof of the Waldorf Astoria, quote, attendees included English actress Violet Englefield wearing jewels so extravagant that she had to be escorted to the party in an armored car. Damn her diamonds went all the way to the ground. We don't know how much money John is pulling in during this period because of course there's no accounting going on at the association and he's the only one in charge and he's not doing any bookkeeping. But what we do know is there's never any real movement on the Santa Claus building. And there won't be for a full 10 years. After John makes this announcement, not even a hint of a possible construction timeline. But nobody asks too many questions. The Santa Claus association continues to respond to children's letters year after year. There's no shortage of heartwarming stories about it every holiday season in New York's papers. And John is at the center of all of it. So he's gotta have goodness in his heart, right?

[C]

Somewhere.

[A]

Yet John is steadily escalating in his bad behavior. For example, he's become increasingly committed to the United States Boy Scouts, not the Boy Scouts of America now called Scouting Away. The Sketchy One fucking Scout. Yes, he's now fundraising for them, but for a fee. But to raise this money, he's been exploiting people's confusion about the United States Boy Scouts. And the Boy Scouts of America finally comes back to bite him when he gets taken to court by the Boy Scouts of America. And in the process, it is revealed that he's been Pocketing very large amounts of the organization's funds. This nearly wrecks John's credibility in the public eye. But he's a very slick mover and he manages to kind of fix it, mostly because of how beloved the Santa Claus association is. He just, like, plays that up. When things get dicey for him, he just hides behind his famous charity and he basically just rides out any scandal. So now it's the 1920s, which is known as the golden age of fundraising. Did you know that?

Oh, you know, it's like, maren, you are lying. You are lying on paper, But I guess it was. And it's because the economy's booming, there's new millionaires popping up all over the place, and it's still the progressive era, where service is front and center for so many people are giving like never before. And as the head of one of New York City's most well known charities, John Gluck knows this very well. So he starts creating a suspiciously large number of side charities from the Santa Claus Association. The missions of these groups are usually very vague or. Or weirdly specific with names like the Defense Reports Committee or the Serum Control of Cancer. Or there was even something called the Window Crib Society. Have you ever seen the pictures of the babies in the window cribs? Yes. This is exploring.

[C]

Explain them. I love that. Okay.

[A]

The Window Crib Society advocated for chicken wire cages that parents could hang outside their apartment windows so their babies could get some fresh air.

[C]

Oh, you see, the photos from then are just so creepy. It's a baby fucking 12 stories up on basically like a security gate. Chicken wire. Yeah, like a chicken wire awning.

[A]

Yeah. It's like a cat cage nailed to a kitchen window and the babies crawled out into it. Yeah.

[C]

For fresh air.

[A]

For fresh air.

[C]

And I promise you that's not what you're getting in fucking New York to begin with. Hong Kong.

[A]

Hong Kong. Beep, beep. But I think that's the craziest because I've always seen that just in kind of like, interesting facts you should know about this was because it really was a trend. People were doing it, but it was all Santa Claus Society just trying to basically launder money.

Okay. Also perfect distraction.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Babies and chicken. People are just so freaked out all the time.

[C]

They're just looking up all the time.

[A]

You can't focus. Okay. So these groups never do a whole lot aside from fundraising, but to make them seem legit to potential donors, John starts to claim that they're backed by members of New York's high society. Without those members permission, of course. When rich socialites and business people discover they've been unknowingly endorsing cage windows for babies, they are furious. And this is when reporters and city officials finally start poking into the world of John Gluck. But of course, what John does when there's heat on any charity is he just shuts it down before anything escalates and then goes on to create a new one. And he every time pulls in some unknown amount of cash with his fundraising and then of course, pockets it's most, if not all of it, but also growing a list of donors. So he gets out there and he kisses babies in cages and shakes hands and then finds new people to give him money. It's said by the 1920s, John's master mailing list contains roughly 76,000 names.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Pre Internet. So now it's the late 20s. And a straight laced, rule loving public servant named Bird S. Kohler is now the New York City's Commissioner of Public Welfare. And this very outspoken man who believes that charity should be tightly regulated and heavily scrutinized.

[C]

He's fun.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, this is like the prohibition era. Brings in all these guys.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, he's great, but who would you rather be at a party with?

[A]

No, clearly, John Gluck is the man. I mean, he's like, he's like, lets you and me do some good and then I will also get money.

[C]

Yeah, like, he's fun.

[A]

He's fun. He's already a rich guy. He's a rich guy that knows how to make rich guy give him money.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he does it. But basically, Bird Kohler sees how flashy and hammy and publicity hungry John Gluck is, and he's instantly suspicious about his intentions. So he hits the Santa Claus association with an official audit. Things very quickly unravel. Kohler learns that since the Santa Claus association began, John Gluck has been running the whole thing himself with zero oversight. He has made up dozens of employees, all listed on the payroll, to give the illusion that there's financial accountability within the organization.

[C]

You can't do that.

[A]

No. You're not allowed to do that. That's actually illegal. As a result, huge sums of money have flowed in and out of the charity without any documentation on how it was spent. So in 1927 alone, Kohler learns that the Santa Claus association raised at least $100,000.

[C]

Don't. What was the other one?

[A]

Three.

[C]

Okay. I don't know.

[A]

You do. A million, two million. And it's all gone.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So he. In the end, Bert Kohler's audit of the association concludes that John had embezzled virtually all of the charity's funds. Millions and millions in today's money that had been donated not only for the Santa Claus building, but for also for the operational expenses of it. These findings generate a tsunami of nationwide press that exposed John's schemes and sully his reputation for people are outraged. And of course, practically overnight, all the social capital that he had spent a decade cultivating is over. The post office, meanwhile, abruptly ends its partnership with the Santa Claus Association. Yeah. So in 1928, John shutters the organization officially, even though he can no longer treat it as his personal slush fund. Now we are sadly back to square one, needing to answer kids letters to Santa Claus. So after the collapse of the Santa Claus association, smaller organizations step in to help with letters to Santa. Decades later, Operation Santa Claus replaces this system and in the coming years expands into a nationwide program. So today you can visit the United states postal service operationsanta.com and you can read children's wish lists. They're scanned and they're shared there for you to read for yourself. And you can answer one if you would like to. It's estimated that the Santa Claus association provided somewhere around a quarter million gifts for New York City's children. We will never know what good the money John embezzled could have done.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Cause he was getting millions in the spirit of give somebody who doesn't have what they need for the holidays something great.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Meanwhile, John Gluck gets away with it. He's never prosecuted for any financial crimes, which is actually often attributed to the Great Depression hitting and overshadowing this entire scandal. What we know for sure is that he winds up leav New York and resurfacing in Miami, where he reinvents himself as a real estate broker. And he lives there until the early 50s when he dies at age 73. Alex Palmer writes in his book, John Gluck never heads another charity. Though it's unclear if this is because he finally learned his lesson or because post depression reforms finally put guardrails on fundraising for charity. He's like, now it's not worth it. Yeah. And that is the story of New York City's opportunistic Santa Claus man, John Gluck. Happy holidays.

[C]

So he never had to give back any of the money, but he lost it. But he spent it all.

[A]

He spent it on himself and, like, did whatever. But then, like, basically the market crash of 1929 and overnight, no one had anything. No one had anything. Nobody was looking for the millions he stole when, like, people were jumping out of windows.

[C]

Totally. Wow. That's fucked up. I've never heard that before.

[A]

I haven't either.

[C]

Must be because it's right. By the Great Depression.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. It got.

[C]

That's a fucking good fraudster.

[A]

Isn't it good?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It was gonna be a story for New York for our live show.

[C]

Yeah, Good one. All right, well, great job. I'm glad we're donating to feed the children.

[A]

Finally, someone gives back after this gigantic ripoff. Although, God, it's like the Santa Claus building. If it was made in, like, 1915, by now it would be gorgeous. They would be curing cancer in there. Yeah. They would be doing everything all the. You would have this kind of, like, focused attention on goodness.

[C]

What is it about him that made him not do that?

[A]

Greed.

[C]

That sucks. Oh, men.

[A]

Oh, you men.

[C]

Oh, you men.

[A]

Well, that's where we're gonna bring you down to this holiday season.

[C]

Yeah. Good job, guys. We did it, guys.

[A]

Focus on the Santa Claus building in your mind.

[C]

Don't be like the Santa Claus guy.

[A]

No, no. Be the doorman of the Santa Claus building and open the door of the Santa Claus building in your heart. In your heart. And welcome all of the children and adult children in.

[C]

That's. That's right.

[A]

This holiday season.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

And stay sexy.

[C]

Don't get murdered.

[A]

You thought I'd never get to it.

[C]

Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[A]

This has been an exactly right production.

[C]

Our senior producer is Molly Smith, and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

[A]

Our editor is Aristotle Lassen.

[C]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[A]

Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[C]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[A]

And follow the show on Instagram at. My favorite murder.

[C]

Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

Or you can watch us on YouTube, search for my favorite murder, then like and subscribe.

[C]

Goodbye.

[B]

It's the season to come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks, warm up with a creamy caramel brulee latte, get festive with an iced gingerbread chai, or share a velvety peppermint mocha. Together is the best place to be at Starbucks.