512 - Best of the Year (Part I)

Summary

My Favorite Murder – Episode 512: Best of the Year (Part I)

Released: December 25, 2025
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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Overview

In this special “Best of the Year Quilt” episode, Karen and Georgia revisit two standout listener-favorite stories: Georgia recounts the life and crimes of Locusta, the infamous poisoner of ancient Rome, while Karen dives deep into the life, legacy, and mysterious disappearance of aviation icon Amelia Earhart. The episode blends rich historical storytelling with the hosts' signature banter and comedic insights. They also celebrate their holiday tradition of donating to charity, this year spotlighting Feeding America.

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Key Segments & Timestamps

Charity and Holiday Tradition

• [03:51] Karen and Georgia share their holiday tradition of making charitable donations every December and announce a $10,000 gift to Feeding America.

  “So today we're making our final donation of $10,000 to an organization called Feeding America.” – Georgia [03:58]
  “Let's all find ways to look out for each other in the coming year.” – Georgia [04:32]

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Segment 1: Locusta, the Poisoner of Rome

Storyteller: Georgia Hardstark
Begins: [07:54]

Introduction

• Georgia sets the stage by noting Locusta may be “history's first documented serial killer”, active during the early Roman Empire.

  “This is the story of a woman some people describe as history’s first documented serial killer. This is the story of Locusta, the poisoner of Rome.” – Georgia [08:36/08:45]

• Locusta is introduced as a mysterious figure with scant historical records, but whose legend looms large.

Locusta’s Background and Era

• Born in Gaul (modern-day France/Belgium), possibly enslaved and brought to Rome via Caesar’s campaigns.
• Set against the context of the Roman Empire’s transition from republic to empire, “Pax Romana”, and the “bread and circuses” era.

  “And this period, Locusta is born into the end of the Republic and the beginning of the Empire is the beginning of what's actually a pretty great fucking time to be a Roman citizen.” – Georgia [12:16]

• Discussion of class divides: opulence for citizens, suffering for the conquered.

Locusta’s Rise as a Poisoner

• Learned herb and poison lore, perhaps via her family.
• Formed a trio of “sorceresses,” became independently wealthy targeting Rome’s elite.
• Employed belladonna, arsenic, and bespoke concoctions; compared humorously with Sally from "Nightmare Before Christmas."

  “She makes a name for herself. She’s hired by members of Rome’s elite to help them carry out assassinations in their various power struggles.” – Georgia [15:39]

• Multiple arrests skirted thanks to powerful clients.

The Poisonings of Claudius & Britannicus

• Hired by Agrippina to poison Emperor Claudius, enabling Nero’s rise (details: poisoned mushrooms, feather laced with toxins).
• Locusta briefly jailed, then freed by Nero—who employs her again to murder Britannicus, Claudius's son (attempted arsenic, successful belladonna in tainted water).

  “Nero pardons Locusta and quickly hires her to kill 13-year-old Britannicus… He wants her to make his death appear to be of natural causes.” – Georgia [20:07]

• Aftermath: Britannicus buried quickly, but rain exposes telltale red skin—poisoning is suspected.

Locusta’s Legacy and Demise

• Rewarded by Nero: land, impunity for crimes, a school for poisoners.

  “Nero rewards Locusta for securing the throne for him. He pays her, he gives her land, and he ultimately tasks her with opening up a school to teach other people to be poisoners. It's like a happy ending.” – Georgia [23:05]

• Rumored to have tested poisons on slaves and prisoners—fueling her reputation as a proto-serial killer.
• Following Nero’s death, new emperor Galba revokes her immunity. Locusta is executed (methods differ: strangling, burning, beasts).

  “Galba accuses Locusta of killing more than 400 people and sentences her to death… The story always begins with her being marched through the streets of Rome in chains.” – Georgia [25:28]

Notable Discussion & Moments

• Comparisons to "Game of Thrones" intrigue.
• Musings on lost ancient knowledge (“Is that what’s in the Vatican secret library?” – Karen [15:02])
• Hosts’ self-deprecating jokes about attention spans and learning history.

Memorable Quotes

• “People just aren’t really paying attention, I feel like, back then.” – Georgia [21:51]
• “Nero rewards Locusta… tells her to open a poisoner’s school. That’s a happy ending!” – Karen [23:19, jokingly]

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Segment 2: Amelia Earhart—Pioneering Aviatrix

Storyteller: Karen Kilgariff
Begins: [33:40]

Introduction & Context

• With Women’s History Month recently wrapping, Karen chooses to celebrate Amelia Earhart's life, not just the mystery of her disappearance.

  “But because all the focus has been on how she died, the way she lived, including her many accomplishments and her advocacy, is often forgotten. So today, I’m gonna tell you the story of pioneering aviator Amelia Earhart.” – Karen [34:24]

Early Life

• Born in Atchison, Kansas in 1897.
• Raised in a family of fluctuating fortune; father struggled with alcoholism, leading to frequent moves.
• Childhood marked by independence, tomboyishness, and daring (face-first sled story).

  “That condemned tomboy method saved my life.” – Amelia Earhart (as quoted by Karen) [42:13]

• Documented as “the girl in brown who walks alone” in her yearbook [41:58], reflecting her sense of difference.

Adult Aspirations and Entry into Aviation

• As a teen, collected stories of women in non-traditional careers; aspired to break societal norms.

  “She starts keeping a scrapbook with cutouts of women with successful careers… manifesting that future for herself.” – Karen [43:52]

• Dropped out of finishing school to serve wartime wounded in Canada; attends a flight exhibition (the “little red airplane said something to me” moment).
• First plane ride at 23; thrilling and revelatory.

  “As soon as we left the ground, I knew I had to fly.” – Earhart (quoted by Karen) [47:24]

Breakthrough and Rise to Fame

• Mentored by pioneering female pilot Netta Snook.
• Bought her own yellow biplane, “Canary”; set records, including altitude.
• Flying paused by family needs, but remained an advocate for women in aviation.

  “She was obsessed with being a social worker… She took it as her role in life to act as an agent for social change for women.” – Karen quoting Susan Butler [51:01]

The Lindbergh Connection & Global Stardom

• Publisher George Putnam invites Amelia to become the first woman to cross the Atlantic (as passenger, 1928). Media dubs her “Lady Lindbergh.”
• Earhart considers her role on the flight unsatisfying (“The boys did all the flying. … Just baggage, like a sack of potatoes.” – Earhart, quoted by Karen) [56:47/56:52/56:58]
• Dedicates herself to proving her skills as a pilot: solo transatlantic flight in 1932, several U.S. speed and distance records.

  “She also teases her dream of the future by saying, ‘maybe someday I’ll try it alone.’” – Karen [57:07]

Advocacy, Marriage, and Later Achievements

• Used fame to push for women’s empowerment, founds the Ninety-Nines (organization for women aviators), and campaigns for the Equal Rights Amendment.
• Keeps her own name in marriage, opts for personal liberty (“I cannot guarantee to endure… the confinement of even an attractive cage.” – Earhart to Putnam) [59:37]
• Launches a fashion line of flight wear for women.

The Final Flight & Disappearance

• Plans round-the-world flight in 1937; team gradually thins to just her and navigator Fred Noonan.
• Plane crashes on takeoff from Honolulu, repaired; eventually resumes trip from Miami.
• They complete 3/4 of the journey before vanishing en route to tiny Howland Island in the Pacific.

  “She only has about half an hour of fuel left…” – Karen [74:33]

• Despite massive government and private search efforts, neither the plane nor the pilots are ever found.
• Discusses various theories: crash and sink, castaway on Nikumaroro island, capture during WWII, and coconut crab legend.

Closing Reflection on Earhart’s Legacy

• Throughout, Earhart’s independence, courage, and enduring advocacy for women’s rights are celebrated.

  “It wasn't that Amelia was willful, rather that she was free. She was calm, fearless, cheerful in the face of life, and she attracted everybody. ... She believed that women should live lives rich in experience…” – Anthony Brandt, quoted by Karen [80:59/81:16]

• The hosts encourage listeners to remember Earhart for her vibrant life and impact—not just for the unsolved mystery.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

On Poison and Power in Ancient Rome:

• “The billionaires don’t pay taxes and corporations run the fucking country. What? Where are we?” – Karen [13:34]
• “Why don’t we know it anymore? Is that what’s in the Vatican secret library?” – Karen [15:02]
• “Nero rewards Locusta for securing the throne for him... It's like a happy ending.” – Georgia [23:19, tongue-in-cheek]

On Amelia Earhart’s Character:

• “There should be no line between men and women so far as piloting is concerned.” – Earhart, quoted by Karen [56:29]
• “I cannot guarantee to endure at all times the confinement of even an attractive cage.” – Earhart, to her husband (wedding day letter) [59:37]
• “It wasn't that Amelia was willful, rather that she was free.” – Anthony Brandt, quoted by Karen [80:59]

Signature Banter

• “Get your own Vespa.” – Georgia [56:51, paralleled with Earhart’s insistence on pilot credit]
• “It's so wild… You would hope there’s an automated aspect to it.” – Hosts, about the cost and tech of Earhart’s final plane [69:35–69:39]
• “You know that if you rest, your momentum will slow… she’s still on that sled, still going under that horse-drawn carriage.” – Karen [71:47/72:00]
• “We’re open to correction always. Women should live free. It’s insane. Can you imagine?” – Hosts reflecting on Earhart’s legacy [81:32–81:38]

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Final Thoughts

“Best of the Year (Part I)” is a richly entertaining tapestry of crime, history, and feminist commentary—showcasing Karen and Georgia’s blend of humor, warmth, and sharp research. The episode honors the women at its center for their impact on history—not just their notoriety or unsolved mysteries. Listeners are encouraged to look beyond headlines, embrace curiosity, and “stay sexy and don’t get murdered.”

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Additional Segment Timestamps

• [07:54] Start of Locusta, the Poisoner of Rome
• [33:40] Start of Amelia Earhart’s story

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Stay Sexy, and Don’t Get Murdered.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

My savior.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to my favorite Murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have a little gift for all the Christians and non believers alike on this magical day, which is December 25th, Christmas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're combining two of our listener favorite stories and making them into the Best of the Year Quilt episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. So first, Georgia's gonna revisit the story of Locusta, the poisoner of Rome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then Karen will tell the story of aviation legend Amelia Earhart and her mysterious disappearance.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, as you guys know, we have a holiday tradition where we make donations throughout the month of December to charities that make a real difference in people's lives.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So today we're making our final donation of $10,000 to an organization called Feeding America. They were part of a nationwide network of over 200 food banks and 60,000 meal programs so people can access food without judgment or stigma.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they work with lawmakers to make it easier for people to get food by expanding access to food assistance programs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So if you'd like to join us in giving to this very important cause, go to their [e-mail] you can also.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Explore their volunteer opportunities, like helping out at a food bank, hosting a food drive, or donating to your local food pantry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's all find ways to look out for each other in the coming year.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So get cozy and enjoy this special Best of the Year Quilt episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Happy Holidays, whatever you celebrate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

What I think might be the oldest story we've done. Maybe. No, you did a really old one once.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mm. Remember when I did the weather in 14? Like, 13? It was like, when the weather was so bad for a year and a half that everyone just, like, died.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is fucking older. No, this is older.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you about to tell me a Bible story?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna tell you biblical fucking stone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I'm not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna. But we are gonna go back to the early days of the Roman Empire. Is that the earliest, like, gladiator fucking days?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's pretty early.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's pretty early. And it does sound like something straight out of Game of Thrones and actually was probably a likely source of inspiration for George R.R. martin. This is the story of a woman that. What you're gonna guess?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know, I'm just. Yeah, I'm ready for it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the story of a woman some people describe as history's first documented serial killer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the story of Locusta, the poisoner of Rome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. You ready for her?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, please.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, let's do it. So there are very limited primary sources about Locusta. She's only briefly mentioned in surviving histories of Rome, of course. It's just like, everyone's moved on from her. Nobody cares.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're over it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they're over it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All Italians are over it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's not talk about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one was talking about her when I went to Italy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Well, the. But the main sources for the story were an episode of a adorable podcast called History for Weirdos, which is super lovely. It's this married couple. They're very smart. And an article from all that's Interesting by Genevieve Carlton. So we don't know much about Lucasa's early life. We know she was born in Gaul. G, A, U, L. This is the region of the Roman Empire that overlaps collapse with modern day France and Belgium. Like, you. You knew that, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I honestly thought Germany. And I was like, you should say Germany and just sound really smart. And then I was like the other voice that's finally grown in my head that goes, don't do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't even try.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You don't know the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Except. Don't even try.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except. You're kidding yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's born sometime around 14 AD, so. And of course, you know this as well, either at the end of the reign of Augustus or the beginning of the reign of Tiberia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Was it Tiberius? Yeah. It's because I watched what's it called?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gladiator 2. Seriously?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Starring Paul Mescal. It's the PBS series from the 70s. And I keep wanting to take Caligula.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But you got it right. So congratulations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that did.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Something stuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, some. It feels good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. You should be happy for yourself. Okay, so these two men were Rome's first and second.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You do the whole. The whole first syllable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't have gotten Tiberius if I had heard time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it I, Claudius. Brent. It was icloud. Thank you. Thank you. I wondered where he was. I, Claudius.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There we go. And before them, Rome had been a republic. We're not going to get into the weeds about Rome. Can we not? Yes, please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We cannot for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Really rather not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I will tell you just this one thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was so blown away when I went to Rome to see these places that they used to meet. They're fucking huge. So, like, you know when you're thinking about it and you're just like, oh, friends, Romans, countrymen, type of stuff, and you're like, oh, they're probably like on a weird little rock or you're thinking of like some Monty Python movie or whatever. Like, they're all standing in a circle in a marketplace.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no. These things were like 15 story buildings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, and they're still standing. Kind of huge. And they're still standing. And then there's like metal statuary on top of that. Like, it was mind blowing. What a time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want to go, but stop it, because we're not getting into the weeds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm totally done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Essentially, though, the empire emerged after a series of civil wars destabilized the Republic. Julius Caesar, your bff, a senator, tried to seize power and install himself as a dictator, which is why he was famously assassinated. But Augustus, the first emperor, was his nephew, and he eventually overpowered the senators who had conspired against Caesar. So this is where we are now. Okay. So right around this time, this is where Lucasta ends up in the city of Rome. She's a young woman, and I looked at the, like, one or two drawings of her that I don't know what time period they're from. They could be modern, they could be old. But I cast her as Jessica Chastain.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just for fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Interesting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. That's just was my immediate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's likely that she had been enslaved or brought there as a captive of Julius Caesar's campaign in Gaul. So had the campaign where she's from, and she ends up there. So it's probably brought over for, like, slavery purposes somehow. During her upbringing, she learned a huge amount about herbs, plants, and poison making, but there's no record of how it's likely that this knowledge would have been passed down within her family as it was. And this period, Locusta is born into the end of the Republic and the beginning of the Empire is the beginning of what's actually a pretty great fucking time to be a Roman citizen. It sounds pretty sweet. It's where they get the saying bread and circuses, which I've never heard before, but Allie thankfully put in here and you're nodding like you've heard of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it's the thing that they talk about. We're like, that's how they distract us. And then everybody's corrupt in the government and they give us our bread and circuses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what it says here. The emperors keep the people happy by providing free food and entertainment, including the gladiators. And then they fuck off and do their own thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then we all fight about, like the Kim Kardashian of gladiators. And we're all over here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They got more food and circuses than I did, and how dare that person doesn't deserve as many circuses because they're lower than me. And I'm. Yeah. And then we fight with each other and ignore the fucking oligarchs and the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Billionaires don't pay taxes, and the billionaires.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don'T pay taxes and corporations run the fucking country.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What? Where are we?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What? Roman Empire, you say? Okay, I guess.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So this is where kind of the beginning of the opulent, technologically advanced city of Rome, the expanding empire around it. It's good to be fucking wealthy in Rome at this time. But of course, at this point in time, it's not good to be a person living in one of the areas Rome is conquering. But within the city of Rome, even an average Roman citizen, life's pretty stable and conditions are comfortable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, comparatively, it's no Victorian England. This is the two times I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pretty much in the 70s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. This period of time is called the Pax Romana, and it will last about 200 years, and then the empire will decline and fall, and after that, it's the Dark Ages. Super fun. And then it lights out for Europe until the Renaissance. Yeah. So that's where we're at right now in this, like, time of wine and roses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did I just make that up?

[Karen Kilgariff]

A lot of parades. Lot of like. Right, Yeah. A lot of flowers being dropped down from high.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. This is around when the movie Gladiator takes place, or a little Gladiator's a little later, but around this time. But while normal people are enjoying themselves, the ruling class is still constantly full of infighting, jockeying for power, and assassinating one another. It's kind of their thing. This presents an opportunity for a girl from Gaul with a deep knowledge of plants and poisons. You gotta use what you know also.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why don't we know it anymore? That's like, is that what's in the Vatican secret library or whatever?

[Georgia Hardstark]

All the sorcery plant recipes?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, all the stuff that really used to help us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So in her early career in Rome, Lacusta works with two other women to make poisons for wealthy clients. The three of them are often referred to as sorceresses. Laesta becomes independently wealthy for doing this. Fucking get it, girl. She would have used Boss Bitch if she had Instagram do it, you know? Locusta makes a name for herself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's boss bitching, but writing it on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The wall in Roman numerals somehow that I can't read. She makes a name for herself. She's hired by members of Rome's elite to help them carry out assassinations in their various power struggles. And by 54 AD, when she's about 40 years old, she's been arrested and convicted on multiple occasions. However, her powerful clients get her off every time. Yeah, we don't know about all the poisons Locusta uses. Unfortunately, those are secrets now. But records show that she used belladonna, or deadly nightshade, as well as arsenic and a litany of other poisons. I think you have to imagine Sally from the Night Before Christmas. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, just a skinny, pale girl that's like. I like to combine things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Little of this. And it sounds like she also knows how to create new poisons from different combinations. So she's fucking smart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, I didn't realize that until now, where it's like, oh yeah, there was a. All kinds of poisonings happening, like palace intrigues type stuff. Those rich people aren't just gonna have poison on hand. Like they have to buy it from.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Somewhere they don't make it themselves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just realized that, yeah, they have poisoners. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So by this point, we're on Rome's fourth emperor, Claudius Augustus, the first emperor, had essentially consolidated power and set Rome on this path to growth and conquest. And then there were two other emperors, until Claudius Claudius marries his niece, a woman named Agrippina, who had already been married, like oh, my God. Drama. And whose first husband had died, possibly by poisoning. Agrippina has a son from that previous marriage. His name. Do you want to try to guess? Yeah. You don't have to. No problem.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Does it start with an L? Okay, start it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're going to know the name and so you're going to think, I wish I had known Nero.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. So Nero obviously doesn't really have a particularly strong claim to the Roman throne because he's the son of the second wife. You know what I mean? But Agrippina is like, but let's change that, right? I'm the new wife or I'm the wife. Let me figure this out. Agrippina convinces Claudius to change his will, making her son Nero the heir to the throne. This is in spite of Claudius having a biological son. And after Claudius changes his will, Agrippina wants to make sure that he doesn't have time in life to change it back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I'm saying? So she turns to Locusta, who by this time is well known among Roman elites. Agrippina and Locusta wait for a day when Claudius, most loyal servant, has the day off. They had days off back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Interesting. They poison a dish of mushrooms, which is Claudius favorite food. And it's unclear if the mushrooms themselves are poisonous or if she applies poison to the mushrooms. We don't know how she sauteed and shantayed. Other people say he was actually poisoned by belladonna bruin to a T. Regardless, the story goes that Claudius gets sick, his doctor comes to see him, and I don't know why every single doctor who went to see any patient ever was back then, wasn't first like, you're being poisoned, right? Because everyone's fucking being poisoned.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? It was so common, especially in the palace.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It like, kind of should be number one. Number two is like gout or whatever, you know, I don't know. What do they get? The doctor gives Claudius a feather to stick down his throat to induce vomiting. That's doctors then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that's it also. But that's how they did it in the vomitorium, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right, right. But the feather has been coated in more poison. And we don't know if Agrippina did this or if the doctor was involved.

[Karen Kilgariff]

However, they're locking it down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And Claudius dies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

After Claudius dies, Agrippina, who hired Lucasta, has Lucasta jailed for the poisoning, which seems like a bad idea because you just talk, right? And you're like, oh, I didn't do this on my own.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't get it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a weird move. Clearly. Like a paranoia move.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because also, it's all gonna be down to her, obviously.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like get rid of the evidence. But, like, the evidence can talk. But this doesn't matter because her son Nero quickly frees her because he also needs her help.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Claudius Biological son is a man name.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Give me the first letter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

B R. Britannicus. Oh, I got that. No, I'm not gonna. He's named this because the Romans had recently expanded the empire to Britain around his time of birth. I don't know. Britannicus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My name's Georgia. Like, I don't. What am I gonna say? Yeah, you can't judge. I can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I truly can't. Britannicus still has a powerful claim to the Roman throne. Sadly, he's only 13 years old when his pops dies. In 55 A.D. nero pardons Locusta and quickly hires her to kill 13 year old Britannicus, which is like, just send him to a fucking island.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They can't. It's always killing with them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So much killing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so much killing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He wants her to make his death appear to be of natural causes. At 13, Locusta attempts to poison him with arsenic, but it doesn't work. And Nero has her flogged for this. I don't think that's the best idea.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Locusta flogged?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But they try again. Nero throws a dinner party. Wine is served. The Romans would serve their wine diluted with water, blah, blah, blah. Basically, before Britannicus takes a sip of his wine, his taster, who's specifically there to test for poison, takes a sip, says it's fine. And then Britannicus is like, oh, top me off with that kind of. That water. Turns out that water was the poison, so the tester didn't drink it. Again, Britannicus drinks it. It's probably belladonna. And thing is, Britannicus has epilepsy. The other people at the dinner party know this. So when he basically stops being able to speak, Nero's like, oh, he's just having a seizure. Which is like, again, let's start with poisoning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ye. If you're like, well, there's the heir to the throne, I'm sure there's no problem.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, we're all fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Britannicus is brought to another room to recover, but it's where he ultimately suffocates and dies. At 13. According to lore, the poison luchesta used was known by the Romans to turn a victim's skin red. And Britannicus is buried very quickly after his murder. This is so Game of Thrones, isn't it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With his face painted with a white chalk to hide his red skin. People just aren't really paying attention, I feel like back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or they're just not staring into the face maybe for very long.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or they're like, I'm not the one to say anything. Well, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's poisoners everywhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's poisoners. That's the fucking king or whatever. And you're just like, that's not for me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I gotta tell you, if anybody wants to watch it, I. Claudius is a pretty amazing. It's like old British incredible actors kind of as like they're doing a play on a TV stage and all of this stuff is like, the stakes are insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Yeah, I'm into it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause then it's like if you live and you're the one that doesn't get poisoned, you get to have like all of Germany.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what I mean? You get to have. Do you like Scotland? You can have it. We have stuff all the way up in Ireland.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But then someone's coming for you too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know that's right. You can't poison. Everyone will ever poison you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But just because he has that chalk on his face, just before his burial, it starts to rain, showing the red skin under the white chalk. So it's immediately known throughout Rome that Britannicus has been poisoned. Wow. There's also probably like a no snitching on, you know, Nero policy going on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah. He'll kill you immediately.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, just keep your mouth shut. Nero rewards Lucusta for securing the throne for him. He pays her, he gives her land, and he ultimately tasks her with opening up a school to teach other people to be poisoners. It's like a happy ending.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That is really positive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. He also grants her immunity for all future crimes. Does that sound familiar?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not at all. Not. Not in the least.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Anyway, Fast forward immunity. Some accounts say that Locusta is given enslaved people and prisoners to test her poisons on. That's just a rumor. And this is where the idea comes from that she is the first known serial killer. Which is so funny. Like, you don't think about, like, you think of serial killer as a recent thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it was probably happening a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just the second the first human brain that got a weird little screw fall out of it type of thing. Sorry, that's an oversimplification.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, that sounds psychopathy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Correct.

[Georgia Hardstark]

From what I've read.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, especially back then. Yeah, it was much before it was a sin, you know, it happened all the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Definitely. And some people say at this point she just starts poisoning people because she enjoys it. Sounds like she's good at it, you know, not just as a hired assassin. We don't know much about what else happens to Locusta for about 15 years until she's in her mid-50s. During this time, Nero has made a lot of enemies. In fact, during this time period, Nero actually murders his own mother. Fucking put him in the throne. Yeah, like, thanks a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just ungrateful little bastard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. In 68 AD, Nero is unseated by a man named Galba and is forced to flee Rome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, but right there, if I was like, galba is now in charge, I'd be like, yeah, no, this isn't gonna last.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why? Because you never.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Galba. Yeah, that's not dededs. You don't have any ius at the end.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Galba.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fucking Galba. Oh my God. It's over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's all get the fuck out of here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gotta get out of Rome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Nero dies by suicide shortly after this. The new emperor, your best friend Galba, overturns Locusta's immunity because that can be done as well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, we've heard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And this comes as part of a purge of all of Nero's closest advisors. So for 15 fucking locusta was living the good life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you know, nothing lasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, it doesn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Time is a construct.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The pendulum swings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. Flat circle. Galba accuses Locusta of killing more than 400 people and sentences her to death. So she is executed, although it's not known exactly how. There are two legends. The story always begins with her being marched through the streets of Rome in chains. Shame all of Game of Thrones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Some say she is then strangled or burnt, or a combination of the two. Public executions are common in Rome and often take place during gladiator games. Like there's that entertainment and circus that you wanted. Yeah. In addition to burning, other methods of execution include crucifixion, which seems like it's reserved for special circumstances as well as exposure to wild beasts. That's a Hell no. I mean they're all. Hell no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're all pretty bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But yeah, you just get thrown in a pit with a bunch of coyotes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh God. Well, anyway, that's the end of Locusta's story as we know it, which There isn't a ton. Let's get Jessica Chastain on the line and fucking getting exactly right pictures, fucking movie out here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, if you have a history podcast where you go into this part of Roman history in depth, I'll listen to it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm telling you, history for weirdos, they clearly went to school, unlike us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Should I go there first?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. They know what they're talking about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're good explainers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're good explainers and they, like, have details off the top of their mind in a way that I don't understand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because they studied.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because they studied and probably didn't drink themselves into oblivion in their 30s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, I think the thing about people who learned a lot and stayed in school is that it's because they read books and got what was happening and then were like, oh, my God. This is a great, great factoid, which I feel like you and I are both the kind of people, had we not been born with these brains, that would. We would have been those people. But like, the sitting in the seat and being told what to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. The distractions and the time away from.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Drinking, all of that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The disinterest. Yeah. And I'm fine with that. We're not all gonna be. We're not all supposed to be the same.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. But I feel like these days, you know, history for weirdos, there are people who got really good at teaching because they understand what's interesting about history. Or like that it's. Here's how you bring into history to life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This podcast will kill you. Great example.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So smart learning about that kind of stuff where it's like, oh, often we put a mental block up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like, oh, history, that's boring. It's like. It's so not boring.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so not boring. I'm a big fan of history. I really am. And that is everything we know about the woman who was possibly the first serial killer. Locusta, Poisoner of Rome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow, that was great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. Thank you, Alex.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you want to dip into Roman. The Roman Empire every once in a while to tell me about it, I am here for it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. We have to. There's a whole. There's a whole time period. Thousands and thousands of years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thousands of years ago.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, well, good. I'm glad you like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that was great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wonderful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, well, we did it. We got some beautiful. This has been a, like, huge, well rounded episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's what we're like. You know what I mean? It's like, I feel like we're able to get in there and really produce.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everything is handed to us as we walk in the door. Every single thing is thought through for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

ADHD because we were born with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Baby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can't hand that to me and hand that to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can't print that up on a copier in a different part of the building. I've never seen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, thank you guys for being here, being part of this. So appreciative.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we really love it. And one last thank you to all our ceramic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ceramicists.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ceramicist artists for our ninth anniversary, including.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Emily, AKA Pottery Mama, Missy, AKA Young Yenta, Sam Riegel with that beautiful mug, and Lindsay Cook with the Altered Moments figurine. So good. I've just been, like, talking to you this whole time and listening to you with these beautiful things behind your head, so distracted. And I keep just going, oh, you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Know, what we do is take these and put them down here and put these things up here so these guys get a little time in the sun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, right. Definitely. We're interior designers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We are. And we're gonna fill up these shelves with all of the beautiful. It's just so nice that we have the kind of listeners that. And you guys have been like this from day one. That, like, we go like, hey, can we have a thing about something? Hey, will you detail us about Rome Empire? And then it's like, boom, Boom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's my specialty. Boom. And I'm funny and creative.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It's incredible. And like, the response, the ceramic response is to the point where the post office is kind of mad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I knew they would be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's wonderful. Just like the early days when Georgia would go to her post office box.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they'd be like, what's murder? They get mad about the word murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On things like, listen, listen. It's been around for at least since Slocasta's time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Truly, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you're telling me that the AI that's meant to make everyone's job easier to manage just adds more to manage on top of the thousands of apps the IT department already manages? Funny how that works. Any business can add AI. IBM helps you scale and manage AI to change how you do business. Let's create smarter business. IBM.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Today, healthcare can feel complicated. That's why Optum uses technology to connect the people and processes that make healthcare easier, more affordable and more effective. We're making it clearer for you to know exactly what your benefits cost and to help you better manage your health. We're coordinating care between your doctors and your technology. We believe better, simpler healthcare is always possible. That's healthy optimism. That's Optum. Visit optum.com to learn more. I'm going to turn it around. Great. I've got a 180.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I would love a 180.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, good, because Women's History Month just ended this week. And yet it feels to me like we should continue remembering women, shouldn't we? In case we're wiped off the face of the planet here in America.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, in case we're Handmaid's tailed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's so much going on in the world, and I think talking about the women whose shoulders we all stand on is a good idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No matter what the story is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Definitely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I like the idea that, you know, sometimes there's people who listen to our podcast and they do have, you know, their young daughters in the backseat. Here's a story you can let them listen to. We'll try not to say the F word very much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna try. Let's see if I can get through an entire story without cursing or without saying fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, I just said it. Oh. So I'm gonna tell you the story today of an American icon who, by boldly chasing her dreams, made an indelible imprint on our culture and. But despite her extraordinary life, she's most famous for the mysterious circumstances surrounding her death. Oh. Arguably one of recent history's greatest unsolved mysteries. For nearly a century, searchers have tried to force a satisfying conclusion to her story, and they've always come up short. But because all the focus has been on how she died, the way she lived, including her many accomplishments and her advocacy, is often forgotten. So today, I'm gonna tell you the story of pioneering aviator Amelia Earhart. Ye. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. I've been, like, following the stories. I just always click on the stories of. They think they found this. They think they found that. Here's the next. Like, I cannot not click on those.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Because it's fascinating. It's like they have to find something someday that's conclusive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a legit mystery. Okay, tell me everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so the sources for this story today are writer Doris L. Rich's book, a biography, Amelia Earhart, which is a primary. There's also a PBS documentary series that's American Experience, that's all about her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I fucking love American Experience. It's one of the best shows.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you're just looking for something. If, like, if you've an empty day and you're trying to feel enriched while still being completely entertained, American Experience will do the job for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. I don't care if you don't give a shit about the dust bowl. You'll be fascinated by the dust bowl while you do your nails and I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have to say home gym. I was raised by my father forcing me to Watch PBS material. And so furious. Where he'd be like. Right after Happy Days would end, he'd be like, turn it over. Let's see what's on pbs. And then we'd have to watch an opera. We'd have to watch Carl Sagan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And is it a coincidence that you're here owning your own fucking business today? Probably not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Probably not. I think PBS enriched my life. Did my father ever give them a dime in donations? Not only. Not once, and I'm sure he'll do this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He sued them for money. Oh, no. What if he sued PBS for damages?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

My mom would always, like, walk through and he'd be watching something and really enjoy, you know, like a documentary on the Automat or whatever. Had to watch that the last time I went home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But my mom would always go, jim, you have to give them money. And he would go, bullshit. They're not getting a dime out of me. And that was like, his proud stance that he refused to give them money. It's the ultimate. Like, he's gonna finally rip somebody else off. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're fighting the wrong fight, bro.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Meanwhile, he has absolutely given them money. And it was just. Just a bit. Basically, he's doing to piss my mom off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Phew.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's not really a douchebag. Okay. Because Truly with the Kilgara family has gotten their absolute fill from.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How many tote bags do you guys have from them? That's how you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. Oh. So anyway, there's also a two part National Geographic podcast called Overheard. Did you know there was a National Geographic podcast?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I also. Sorry. This should go up into the. But since we didn't do it, I'll just say it now on TikTok. This morning, I learned that the Southern Poverty Law center has just launched their own podcast just at the beginning of this month. And it just covers all the stories, all of the things that they're like. Basically them fighting for Americans in every way. The fact that they've been doing it for a hundred years, all these things. Go listen to the Southern Poverty Law Center's podcast, get them some numbers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Share it with friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get that thing going. Because it sounded great. The little clip and what I heard. I was so excited that they're starting now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing. Now let's start your story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good vibes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now to the story. Here's my writing when I go in and edit Maren's writing. The story of Amelia Earhart's story begins in late July of 1897. She was born in the northeast corner of Kansas in a town called Atchison. It looks like it's, I would guess two hours north of Kansas City. Way up there in the Corner, there's the AmeliaAirheart.org website and they have a museum there that I think is built in her house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But they have the best tote bags that I'm absolutely gonna get. That's weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That just I brought up tote bags.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. Cause I was just looking on the website and it's just a painting of the house and that's the tote bag.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. We all need those Martorinos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We all need those. Yeah. Let's buy all the merch at the Amelia Earhart Museum.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's how you can spot a murderino in the wild at like the farmer's market is if she's a fucking. Oh, I said the f wor. She's a random Amelia Fairheim.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm still on page one. Stop it. Stop it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've had too much fucking rose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's go. Okay. Let's really focus on what we're supposed to be doing. Okay. So she's born in Atchison in July of 1897. Her father, Edwin, is a lawyer from humble beginnings. Her mom, Amy comes from a very prominent local family. And a fun fact, actually like a badass fact. Amy Earhart was the first woman to hike to the top of Pikes Peak.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In Colorado.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she's from adventuring DNA makes sense. So things aren't always smooth sailing for the Earhart family. Edwin has good and bad years financially. He takes job opportunities wherever they come. We later learned that it's cuz he's an alcoholic. And that's the way my mom grew up, where it's like he does good for a little while, he's a lawyer and then he blows it and then has to. And then goes off the wagon and then has to dry out again. I can't say that that's exactly what happened in this family, but I'm recognizing it from what my mom told me about when you have like the long term alcoholic that then gets better for a long time and then goes back. It's awful. So they move around a ton. And then when Amelia isn't moving around with her parents and they're just trying to go get him another job, she stays for long stretches at her grandparents home. So Amelia does have a younger sister named Muriel. They're just about two, so they're very, very close. And they're not your typical turn of the century girls because like, of course at the time, girls had to wear long skirts. But Amelia and Muriel spend their weekends in bloomers because it's easier to play in. Them love it. And these girls love playing. Amelia is the daring ringleader and she can often be found with her little sister climbing over fences, shooting rifles, collecting buns. Doris L. Rich, Amelia Earhart's biographer, writes about an incident when Amelia is seven years old and Muriel is four and they are going sledding. So Amelia is about to head down a big snowy hill. So she does something most little girls would be conditioned not to do. Instead of sitting up on the sled and holding like the string like that, she lays down on her stomach, she pushes face first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You gotta go face first, face first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just do it. So she pushes off, she starts racing down the hill, flying down, and then she sees here comes a horse drawn carriage that's coming directly down her path. Across her path, I should say. She starts yelling out to the driver, cause she can't stop. So she's yelling, but he can't hear her, he can't see her. So up on the top of the hill mural is watching her sister as she is about to crash in. So Amelia at the same time is like, I'm about to die. So instead of panicking, what she does is she puts her head down as low as she can and somehow the timing works out perfectly and she just goes right under the wagon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like Christmas vacation when they go under the fucking semi truck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, exactly like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or like when I was about six years old and I was riding my bike in front of my parents and their friends and I went up in the o' Hara's big old gravel driveway that was like a quarter of a mile long. And I was coming back down, racing back down. And my parents can hear a car that's going 80 miles an hour. Oh my God. And they watch as I just go directly in front of the car. Like the car's going so fast it didn't have time to put on the brakes. So I just went, shh, shh, like that. And as I came into our driveway, my dad just picked me up off my bike and slapped me on the ass. And I ran into the house, they never spanked us. And he like, basically they all thought they were going to watch me die. Yeah, Amelia Earhart style pet cemetery, right? Oh my God, for real? Okay, so so basically she goes under, she comes out unscathed. And when she finally comes to a stop, Amelia jumps up and smiles and waves at her sister. And years later, she looks back on this moment and she'll say, quote, that condemned tomboy method saved my life. Had I been sitting up, either my head or the horse's ribs would have suffered in contact. Probably the horse's ribs. So by Amelia's teenage years, she's attended so many different schools that she basically doesn't have any friends at all. In one of her yearbooks, this makes me so sad, there's a photo of her, and the caption reads, quote, ae the girl in brown who walks alone. Oh, just like. Cause you have this fuck up dad, right? You're gonna have to leave anyway, so you might as well not get to know people at home. Amelia's father's developed a serious drinking problem. I spoiled that one. But he struggles to hold down any job. PBS reports, quote, Amelia adored her father, but he let her down. So she learned early on to be self reliant.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yikes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she starts keeping a scrapbook with cutouts of newspaper and magazine articles about women with successful careers that are in traditionally male only fields. It's like she's proving to herself that she can find success without relying on a man and manifesting that future for herself. Essentially, when she graduates high school, it's the thick of World War I. So she drops out of finishing school. They sent her to finishing school.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Finish what, dude?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, finish walking around with a book on your head.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Finish this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she leaves to go tend to wounded soldiers in Canada, which is so badass. She's like, thanks for the manners lessons. I've got to actually go do something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How about gu fuck yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gut fuck yourself. I'm going to work with the Red Cross.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

During this time, she briefly considers a career in medicine. And then one day she goes to a flying exhibition in Toronto and she watches a stun pilot do their tricks in a colorful plane. And she's captivated. She'll later say, quote, I did not understand at the time, but I believe that little red airplane said something to me as it swished by. It's just such a cool. I never thought about this, and I'm sure that my sister has, like, books that she's read aloud to her class. That's like Amelia Earhart. I'm sure she knows all the details, but I've never, like, really thought about that fact of, like, when women are born early and they go through lives with, like, say, an adventurer spirit in a time where they're like, you better put that skirt on. And go to finishing school.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's almost luckier that she had to move around a bunch and had, like an irregular family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, her dad wasn't paying attention and enforcing rules so she could kind of get away with a lot more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was kind of like, yeah, fuck it, because what am I gonna do? Go to finishing school, find a man, and then have this happen to me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, I'm gonna go do my thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, like, can we just props to the baby sister, the younger sister who's always like, she doesn't get enough credit. Like, the older sister always gets credit of, like, she showed her how to do it. But, like, if you didn't have someone to show how to do it. Yeah, I'm clearly giving us props.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's about us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's us. It's about it. But, like, if you didn't have someone to show off to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Then what would you have done?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You would have never had that adventurous spirit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you didn't have a baby crying and saying, I need to go to the bathroom all the time, there would be no nothing to fight against.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you're welcome. You're welcome, Laura and Leah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And leah. So by 1920, Amelia is 23 years old. She's living back with her parents again. They're now in Southern California, so they really have moved all over the place. One day, her dad takes her to an event at a Long beach airfield. Once again, Amelia's transfixed by the stunt pilot. So this was like a big thing that was happening at the time. She sees they're offering plane rides for the low price of $5 each.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a lot of money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Worth about today, but, yeah, year 20. 20. 20.

[Georgia Hardstark]

20.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, 20. Plain old 20.

[Georgia Hardstark]

19.

[Commercial Announcer]

20.

[Karen Kilgariff]

19. 20 is what I should have said. Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's $5, 19. Oh, that's a lot of money. I'm going to go 60, 80.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very close, but 80 bucks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's fuck ton of money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She somehow gets.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, God, I did it again. I'm so bad at that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just. It's a fudge. It's a fudge worth of money. So she somehow collects up and gets that money. A couple days later, she goes back to the airfield and she takes a ride for the first time in a plane. And she will later say, quote, as soon as we left the ground, I knew I had to fly. A little quote within the quote says, I think I'd like to fly. I told my family casually that evening, knowing full well I'd die if I Didn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, her dream.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's her passion.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's beautiful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So a year later, Amelia meets with a young female pilot named Netta Snook. The best name of all time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Netta's an aviation pioneer in her own right, and she agrees to teach Amelia how to fly. She's charging a dollar a minute, which would be basically $16aminute in today's money. So it would be like paying $960 for an hour's flying lesson.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's very expensive. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Snooki's after it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Snooki's like, hey, then go find another woman to teach you how to fly a plane. Absolutely. So to pay for her lessons, Amelia takes on a bunch of odd jobs, including hauling gravel for a local trucking company and working as a stenographer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, anything I can do?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Within six months, she manages to buy her own small, bright yellow biplane that she names Canary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That is so wild.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mm. She's in it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I bought a Vespa when I was. Cause I was like, I gotta stop writing on the back of douchebags Vespas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And get your own.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I need my own or I'm gonna keep dating assholes. So I got my own. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then did you go see Quadrophini at the midnight show?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I was obsessed. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When the Vespa kids would come in for Quadrophenia, that was my very favorite. I'm like, I can't get these outfits together, but I pick you. Of all the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so hot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not picking Rocky Horror, and I'm not picking heavy metal. I'm picking Quadroprophenia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hell, yeah, you are. Those acid wash jeans.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she gets her pilot's license in late 1921, and she begins flying in derbies and setting all kinds of records.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How old is she?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she's 23 and 20. So she's 24.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, 24.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like the idea that they just start air derbies, where it's like, can you fly a plane, then come and do a race?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hilarious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she sets all kind of records, like becoming the first woman to fly at an altitude of 14,000ft.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But actually, she wasn't trying to break that record. She just wanted to see how high the canary could go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aww.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Later, she'll write quite modestly. Quote, although my figure of 14,000ft was not extraordinary, the performance of my engine was interesting. I had gone up much farther than some of the higher powered planes, which should have been more efficient. So her and the canary are like, getting in there and they've got a vibe. Yeah. In 1924, Amelia's life changes again as her father continues to struggle with alcoholism. Her parents get divorced. Now she's 28. She and her mom moved from California to Massachusetts to move in with Muriel, who's studying to be a teacher there in Boston. So Amelia gets a job there as a social worker. She gets paid $60 a month, which is roughly how much in today's money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

$691,000 a month. Wow. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. So she's now supporting herself and her mother on this modest income. So basically her expensive hobby of flying planes has to be paused. But she does find a local flying community, and she's a vocal part of it. And local newspapers start writing about her fierce advocacy for women in aviation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So even though she can't do it, she's still like, yeah, but we should get to do it. Yeah. The good news is she loves her job as a social worker. She works with immigrant families and children, mostly from China and Syria, and she really feels like she's found her calling. Author Susan Butler tells National Geographic, quote, if anything, she was obsessed with being a social worker. She took it as her role in life to act as an agent for social change for women.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Yeah. That's amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I kind of like that, you know, she was pivoting, doing what she could, when she could, and then also making a life doing other stuff that was also very important.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Her moral compass was there no matter what she was doing. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was like, I'm gonna do good and make change and fight for women.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very cool. So then in 1928, a man named George P. Putnam reaches out and that changes everything in her life. Once again, Putnam is a wildly successful publisher who is behind one of America's more notable fascists, Charles Lindbergh's smash hit autobiography. We, of course, Lindbergh was a huge Aviating star. Very prominent. You covered his baby's kidnapping.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was gonna say you covered that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But okay, it was you in episode 119, fingers everywhere. Of course you remember that episode. So Putnam is now on the hunt for his next aviation superstar. He's been given a short list of female pilots, hoping one of them will have that elusive and lucrative it factor. So he sets up a meeting with now 31 year old Amelia. And when he does, she walks in and he can't believe it. She looks a lot like Charles Lindbergh. So he's immediately convinced that she's the one. So George pitches Amelia the opportunity of a lifetime. He wants her to take a transatlantic flight, not as the pilot, but as a passenger. And like, it's all for publicity. Yeah. But still, the trip would make her the first woman to fly across the Atlantic Ocean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I get so nervous when we fly to like on tour to Europe and stuff, because you're just like. Or to Hawaii when you're just like. So we're just gonna be like on open ocean for like four or five hours.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but imagine being the first woman who gets to do that. And you're gonna know that, and it's never going to be changed because you're the first woman to do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah. You know, and she's kind of like, look, I survived that sled. I'll be fine. I'm sure that kind of is a part of it. Right? She's like, get me out there. It'll be good if I do it. Okay, so she's all in. Of course, she thinks that Maren wrote it sounds like a blast. But of course she also knows there's risks. Writer Anthony Brandt notes, quote, it was still a very dangerous thing to fly the Atlantic Ocean. In the year after Charles Lindbergh flew the Atlantic, which was 1927, 18 planes made the attempt. Only three succeeded.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Airplanes were a mere quarter of a century old. The North Atlantic is famously stormy. Fog banks are common. Weather reports at the time were primitive and navigation was often haphazard. The plane she flew in was made mostly of sheet metal. It rattled and roared like an old steam engine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God, it was so loud.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. The cabin door had to be tied shut with a small rope.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. And the fucking farting. I was gonna say meal service, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, because it's a tri motor seaplane, it's a little guy with three people in it. Okay, so all that in mind, on June 17, 1928, Amelia takes off in the seaplane, piloted by a man named Wilmer Stultz and co piloted by a man named Lewis Gordon. But after 20 hours and 40 minutes of flight time, when they finally land in Wales, it's Amelia who steps off the plane and into instant celebrity.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thousands of people are there waiting to catch a glimpse of the daring aviatrix. Is what they call her Amelia Earhart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you think she slept a moment of that? 20 hours and 40 minutes?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Probably. Well, no, probably not. Cause she was probably thrilled out of her mind, scared shitless and it was super loud and cold and windy, and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There was no bar cart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She just has a little flask that she's sipping out of from a straw. So newspapers run countless glowing features, newsreels declaring her the, quote, Lady Lindbergh. It's the exact type of publicity George has worked so hard for, because now he wants Amelia to write a memoir that he can then turn into the bestseller. So this was my experience doing it. Got it. George urges her to quit her job back in Boston, move into his New York home, and crank out this book. That's exactly how Lindbergh did it. So he wants her to do it the same way. Amelia knows that if she does that, that she can parlay all the attention into some real money, which then she can use to support her family and pay for her expensive flying lessons.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's the original aviator influencer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Hashtag, for sure. And also, you see these. Let me show you some of these early pictures. She's a gorgeous young woman. She has freckles in her bob hair or whatever, but she's like, oh, she's the cutest. She truly has that face card that they're all looking for. And on top of all that, it's gonna give her a platform to share the message she's carried within her since childhood, which is that women can do anything men can do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the 20s, when no one was trying to say shit, they were like, I'm gonna smoke a cigarette.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jazz. Cigarette Jazz.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Amelia upends her entire life in Boston and starts writing a book that will eventually be titled, quote, 20 Hours, 40 Minutes. In it, there's a section titled Women in Aviation. And in that, Amelia writes, quote, while this chapter is called Women in Aviation, just as appropriate a title might have been, women Outside of Aviation. There should be no line between men and women so far as piloting is concerned.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it. Like a female pilot. Nope. Just a pilot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just a pilot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Amelia's sister Muriel will later say that Amelia was embarrassed that her claim to fame was being a passenger on that transatlantic flight, which seems backed up by Amelia's own words. She was quoted as saying, the boys did all the flying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is embarrassing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For her, who is a pilot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Get your own Vespa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get your. She also describes herself on that flight as, quote, just baggage. Like a sack of potatoes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, God, that had to sting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I think it's. She's the kind of person that's like, if you're gonna applaud for me this much, just wait until you see me fly, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. She also teases her dream of the future by saying, quote, maybe someday I'll try it alone. So now it's 1932, Amelia's in her mid-30s, and America's in the throes of the Great Depression. But Amelia's done extremely well for herself over the past few years. She's gotten paid endorsements from brands like Lucky Strike, and she's become the aviation editor of Cosmopolitan magazine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's made up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it is, but I love it. But that's how much of a trend flying was at the time, which is great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You got to get those sponsorships, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We in podcasting understand you're truly right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

About her being the original plane influencer. So at that point, she'd made enough money to buy herself a brand new plane, which is the now iconic fire engine red Lockheed Vega. Amelia is also still devoted to empowering women. She is the founding member and the first president of a group called the 90 nines, which is the first ever organization for women in aviation. The 99 refers to the number of the group's charter members.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. What if it was like, 23? The 23s. It doesn't sound the same. The 99s is fucking almost 100.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On a more personal level, Amelia's father, Edwin, has passed away of cancer, and George Putnam, her publisher, has divorced his wife. He professes his love for her and proposes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I wish I could have seen that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She says no. He asks again, and he ends up proposing to her six different times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love him. Love her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amelia has been skeptical of marriage all her life for very good reason. But she genuinely cares for George, so she eventually accepts. But she has her conditions. She tells him she's gonna keep her own name, which at that time was unheard of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm just. That's incredible. As someone who kept her own name, I wanna thank her for fucking blazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The way she blazed it. And then on her wedding day, she. She won't wear a traditional bridal gown. She wears a brown suit. What? Just like Fisk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's like, let me just go to work today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, here's the thing. I'm not wearing your stupid fucking dress. And she also, the morning of their wedding, writes him a letter, which I really love, that says, quote, I may have to keep someplace where I can go to be by myself now and then. I cannot guarantee to endure at all times the confinement of even an attractive cage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Like he loved that about her. You know, it's like, that's, like, why he loved her is like. That's so incredible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think so, yeah. This is my opinion. When you are raised feral, it's hard to even want to have anything traditional, even when the pressure to do it is so oppressive. Cause it's like, it was literally, she had the kind of household where it's like, go outside and play for 18 hours because everything is so fucked in here. And so then it's like, yeah, I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don'T want to go back, tie myself back to this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That structure that I can't trust. If I couldn't trust my own father, how can I trust you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I completely identify with that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And George Putnam's like, I get it. I'll just keep asking you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also, a brown suit on your wedding day is just, like, badass to a degree where she's like, that isn't just like, I'm not gonna be traditional. She's like, fuck you, finishing school professors.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Apologies to anyone who thought they were actually gonna play this for their children in the backseat of the car like, it was never going to happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were lying to you. But more importantly, we were lying directly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To your children, and you were lying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To yourself if you fucking thought we screamed, fuck you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So around the same year she gets married, which is 1932. She publishes her second book. That one's called the Fun of It.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love that one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kinky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She also announces with that that she's gonna fly across the Atlantic again, but this time as a pilot and this time by herself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At the time, no one, no man or woman, aside from Charles Lindbergh back in 1927, had ever completed a solo, nonstop transatlantic flight, although 10 pilots had died trying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Don't like those odds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she's like, 10 male pilots step away. Yes, exactly. So immediately, Amelia's inner circle, including her husband, George, Putt platinum, start wondering if she's experienced enough to pull off this stunt. Her own mechanic gives her, quote, a 1 in 100 chance of surviving.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cool, dude. Way to be supportive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It reminds me of when the Eagles were like, we don't want to tour with Linda, Rod. We're gonna start our own band. Like you. Go ahead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

See how it goes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good luck. She's selling out stadiums anyway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God, that documentary. I loved it so much, but it filled me with a fury that will never go away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was the point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. She wasn't good enough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You need it. You need that theory. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the idea of making A transatlantic flight alone makes Amelia Earhart feel alive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I was gonna be like, take a beta blocker.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, I can't. This day to day bullshit isn't good enough. I need to get up and over there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What did she do to hype herself up before? Because before I came in here to record, I put on yes and by Ariana Negrande. Like, just to record a podcast that I've done for fucking nine years. And I still need that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, what, a little juju?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Secrets being revealed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, here's. I can tell you, she writes a poem that says, quote, courage is the price that life extracts for granting peace. Think about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You gotta pay. You must. So on a warm May morning, I had it in warm. I don't know why. On a May morning in 1932, Amelia takes off from Canada's east coast in her Lockheed Vega. From the start, it's an exhausting, difficult journey. Author Doris L. Rich writes, quote, she was four hours out when she ran into a storm. She would go high and the plane would ice. Then she'd go down until she could see the waves to get the ice off. Whoa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How fucking scary. Terrifying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She had no radio contact with anyone. The manifold on her engine broke and the flames from the backfire from it were coming out. There was a gas cage over her head that began to leak, and the gasoline was dripping down over her forehead and into one eye. End quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just crash the whole thing into the sea.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's what I would do. I mean, well, after 15 grueling hours of flight time, Amelia Earhart lands her plane safely in Northern Ireland.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this solo flight launches her to all new levels of worldwide stardom. She's mobbed by fans in London and Paris. And when she comes back to the United States, her success is felt as a much needed moment of national joy, because it's still the Great Depression. She even gets her own ticker tape parade in New York City. Influencer, have you ever seen ticker tape parade footage?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It looks so messy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It looks so awesome. Like, if you're down there and everyone's just throwing shit out the window and, like, it's just such a true moment of glory. Yeah, everybody got to focus on that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Then the guy who has to clean it up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why do I think that way? Go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some people like cleaning. Okay. So a few months later, she then becomes the first woman to fly across North America and back. Amelia's now a global icon through and through. I also wonder how much of that is like, I'm proving I'm not a passenger over and over again for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's like the best way to like get yourself to do something for me is like, oh, you don't think I can't do that? You think I'm a passenger?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or to myself of like, oh, you're really ashamed because you had that one comedy set that was terrible that you're remembering from seven years ago. Then I'm gonna go out there and be that. I think shame works.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shame is a great motivator, but being.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A career aviator, even when you're a famous one, takes a ton of money. So Amelia hits the lecture circuit. She goes on tour, making exhausting back to back town by town appearances. Tell me about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

TED Talks, OG og TED Talks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's got like the head bike, but it's not connected to anything. There's a 30s, like, what's that thing by her mouth sometimes? She earned $2,400 in a single week. In two days money. 1932, how much would $2,400 a week be?

[Georgia Hardstark]

76,000?

[Karen Kilgariff]

55,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm in the, I'm in the area.

[Karen Kilgariff]

$55,000 a week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's insane. That's insane. She, she started the first podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. She's also using her platform to campaign for women's empowerment, not only in aviation, but she's trying to get the Equal Rights Amendment passed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Girl, like, don't rest. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's invited to the White House in 1933. She becomes tight with the Roosevelts. Brag, brag, brag.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So fucking cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A not so fun fact about the Equal Rights Amendment, though. Advocates have been fighting to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment since the 20s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Even though it's already met the required number of state ratifications, for some reason it still has not been added to the US Constitution.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Imagine being invited to the White House and wanting to go and being proud to go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you like the Roosevelts? Fuck yeah. I'd go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Imagine it's just such the end of an era. Yeah, but the. It's an end of an era. And what I'm talking about is democracy. Fucking Jesus Christ. Oh my God. Okay, 1933 is a big year for Amelia also because she breaks her own speed record on a second flight across North America. She's just getting it done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

By 1935, 38 year old Amelia has set records for solo flights from like Honolulu to Oakland, California or LA to Mexico City. That's just a couple of them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've done those.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And solo. You mean you just weren't talking to Vince? She's also campaigning for fdr and she launches her own fashion line called Emelia Fashion Brown suits. Called brown suits. Only she explains, if you could find.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One of those in the vintage shop. If you're like doing vintage shopping and then suddenly see fucking Amelia Earhart fashions by Amelia, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the theory was that all flight clothing, of course, had been made for men up to that point. So when you had your nice Jodipers or your weird white shirt or whatever. Leather jacket.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, like horse riding.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So the idea was they were supposed to be. And of course, she always preferred pants. Anyway, so I looked up on AmeliaAirHeart.org and they had pictures from a newspaper of the ad of it, and it said, sports clothes designed by Amelia Earhart. But then every single picture in that ad was models wearing dresses. There was not one pair of pants.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which I was like, she never got a say in that. She sold her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's true. As busy as she is, Amelia still gets the itch to make another big flight. So she writes to her friends saying, quote, I have the feeling there's just one more good flight left in my system and I hope this is it. It is my swan song as far as record flying is concerned. My frosting on the cake. Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Rest on your beautiful laurels sometimes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guys, sorry, I can't join adult children of alcoholics. So I'm gonna go ahead and keep on flying across the street.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Take a nice little nap on them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Laurels can't do. Do it. So the next year, 1936, Amelia announces her plan to fly around the world. If successful, she'll be the first woman to ever do it. Obviously, she and George fundraise for a brand new plane that's built specifically for this journey. They pay for it too, but they're. It's so expensive. It's $80,000, so they need to fundraise. $80,000 back then is about how much in today's money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

351.8 million. Dude, I've learned nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your scale just went like that a little bit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know what's happening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she calls this plane her flying laboratory because it's outfitted with all the latest technology, but she never learns to use much of it. Doris Elrich writes, quote, Amelia did not like radio communication. There's absolutely no doubt about it. That's like me and emails. It's so bad for business. She not only didn't bother to Learn it. She did really find it necessary. There's a hint here of the ego that all great explorers and adventurers have. They have a certain faith that they're going to make it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And when you spend one point something on a fucking plane, you hope it, like, flies itself just a little bit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you would hope. There's an automated aspect to it, something. Amelia wants to do the trip by herself, but it's eventually decided she will need a team, being that she doesn't like radio communication and all. So she hires three men. A technical advisor named Paul Mantz, a Marine navigator with radio operators operation experience named Harry Manning, and a former Pan Am navigator named Fred Noonan. So on March 17, 1937, they take off from Oakland, California. They land in Honolulu. Then on March 20, they take off for the second leg of this trip. But something goes wrong. The plane skids off course at the end of the Runway and it crashes. It's a big enough accident that the plane has to be sent in for extensive repairs. So this is a deeply stressful moment for Amelia. She's basically gambled everything on this extraordinarily expensive flight during a national financial crisis.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Doris L. Rich writes, quote, after she cracked up the plane in Honolulu, she felt fear for the first time. The immensity of this project suddenly hit her. She knew that if she lost that plane or failed in this, she and George were dead broke, both of them. End quote. You can tell Doris L. Rich is writing from, like, it's probably 1945 or something. That's the vibe I get.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is going to happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're dead broke, both of them. So the crash in Honolulu also rattles Amelia's loved ones. According to bbs, friends urge her to abandon this mission. They also express concern over her exhausted and anxious mental state. Yeah, so it seems like she's kind of pushing anyway, even though she's scared or she's worried.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This includes her husband George, who writes her a letter promising that they'll figure things out should she abandon the flight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, there's time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's okay. But Amelia won't give in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Give in and regroup a little bit and then come back stronger than ever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like this is that kind of thing. You know, there are people who are like, if you're a serious workaholic, you just can't consider taking a nap during the day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That thing of, like, rest is for the weak. And it's like, actually, it's a beautiful thing to give to yourself and it's okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is okay. But sometimes you just can't because if you rest, that means like your momentum will slow, even if it's just your mental momentum. And clearly she's still on that sled, still going under that horse drawn carriage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but then it won't go away. You can still come back after it and like you're going to be more clear headed and you're going to be older and smarter and like, give yourself a fucking break sometimes times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that shows why Karen's CEO and I don't have a fucking office at Exactly Right Media.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not good. It's not. It is not good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not. And she has two podcasts and I'm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gonna start a third and it's called it's fine to do this to Yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's Fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's Fine. That actually would be funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A podcast called It's Fine, and you just have people come on and talk about shit that, that is so not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That they put themselves through.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was fine. I was fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was fine. No, I liked it. It was fine. By the time the plane is repaired, Amelia's team has shrunk. The technical advisor, Paul and Harry, the marine navigator, the only guy with radio experience, both back out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were like, later days.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like, read the fates.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I'm gonna go take a nap.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's nap time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mercury is in retrograde, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So now it's Amelia and Fred Noonan. Thanks to changing weather patterns, they're forced to come up with a whole new flight plan. So instead of leaving from Hawaii, they're now taking off from Miami, Florida. And on June 1, 1937, they do just that. This time without a hitch. And then they start on this 40 day, 20,000 mile trip, making several stops to refuel. Along the way, they soar over Africa, through the Middle east, over Southeast Asia, onto New Guinea. They have another stop before a very long stretch over the Pacific Ocean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're the first people who have ever seen this from the fucking air. Like how?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So wild.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So unbelievable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On July 2, 1937, Amelia and Fred take off from New Guinea. At this point, They've completed nearly 3/4 of this journey. And the goal is to now get to a tiny sliver of land called Howland island, roughly halfway between Australia and Hawaii. Truly out in the middle of the Pacific.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's only about a mile and a half long island and a half a mile wide.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a hard target.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a little Tiny one, yeah. Tragically, Amelia and Fred struggle to find Howland Island. We know they arrive in the general area because Amelia starts radioing the Coast Guard who have a ship called Itasca nearby and they're receiving her messages. Some of these transmissions are so crystal clear that the men on the Itasca rush to the decks thinking that the plane will be overhead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In one of her transmissions, Amelia says that she thinks she's close by, but she's lost. And she only has about half an hour of fuel left. But because she doesn't know much about radio transmission, she's sending these messages while on an improper frequency on the radio. So the Coast Guard is only able to respond to her with Morse code, which neither she nor Fred understand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's an important one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Lot of crucial, you gotta elements. Let's not criticize. We're not, you know where the story goes from here. The messages stop coming in. 39 year old Amelia Earhart and 44 year old Fred Noonan and the plane that they're flying in together disappear almost immediately. FDR dispatches a huge crew to go look for them. Them. It's made up of 10 ships and 65 planes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that causes a lot of controversy because it costs millions of dollars. It's still the Depression. So after two weeks of combing a vast swath of the Pacific Ocean near Howlin island with no results, this search is called off. But George Putnam has his own search going.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I forgot that. Yeah, okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He funds an independent search himself and it goes until October of 1937.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he just kind of never stops searching for her. Yeah, that also turns up nothing. In January of 1939, two years after vanishing, Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan are legally declared dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They turn up nothing, not a scrap. So they were like looking in the wrong area.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, okay, we'll talk about that in one second. There are countless theories of what happened during those final moments of Amelia's last flight. All have devoted supporters, as they usually do, because the disappearance happened in the lead up to World War II. Some people think that Amelia and Fred were captured by the Japanese military after crash landing on a Japanese controlled island. And they were either executed for being American spies or they were turned into spies for Japan and sent back to the US with new identities. No, that one's a little wild, but what if. Yeah, now we write that movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Another theory is that Amelia wound up on an island called Nika Maroro. Sorry for that pronunciation. 400 miles south of Howland island is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This where they found her compact.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hold on, wait, wait. They think they might have lived as castaways there before dying of thirst or starvation. Some people believe this theory. Then take it one step further. Further suggesting that massive coconut crabs could have consumed their remains and scattered their bones, making their bodies harder to find.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, those fuckers are big.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's such a creepy idea. The island had been inhabited in the past, but it was uninhabited at the time of this flight. Despite this, intermittent radio signals were reported from that general area around the time they disappeared.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Interesting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As if the plane's radio had remained intact and accessible and they were calling for help. On top of that, in 1940, bones are found on Nakamuroro. They have since been lost, so the DNA has never been tested.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but again, that island had been inhabited, so there weren't necessarily. There's. Searchers have found on that island a single shoe, a piece of aluminum, and a jar of freckle cream.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Freckle cream.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which certainly points to a person and maybe a woman having been there. And for what it's worth, Amelia Earhart had freckles that she was reportedly very self conscious about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, first of all, it breaks my heart that she is so self conscious that she brings freckle cream on this, like, adventure. But then I'm like, I wonder if that was like bare SPF at the time where it's like you had to cover your freckles with this cream and maybe it wouldn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it was maybe like two for one where she's like, I need moisture because this wind's gonna whip around my face.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sunscreen. It's an early sunscreen. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, yeah, it's her. It's theirs. This is her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you imagine you're just on this island, it's mostly coconut crabs, and then you're just like ponds. Ponds. Cold cream.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if the cold cream was like a sponsor of the flight, like, so she had to bring it in?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if it was a sponsor of this podcast? Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Freckle cream.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Freckle cream Packer cl. Amelia Earhart uses it. And you can too. No, because now they love freckles so much that they have little freckle stamps.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they have tattoos of freckles on your fucking face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The kids these days with their big butts and their freckles and their attitudes, okay? Those items are never confirmed as belonging to either Fred or Amelia. And modern day efforts to search the surrounding ocean near that island have turned up nothing. Of course, many people think Amelia's plane simply ran out of fuel and crashed into the open ocean. Because of the sheer size and depth of the Pacific, it hasn't been found. Amelia's sister Muriel thinks this is what happened. Quote, I'm not happy with some of the dramas about Amelia where they went into fiction. So essentially, of course, that's how it always is, where it's like theorizing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The hard truth, which presumably was much harder for Muriel, Amelia's mother, Amy, and her husband George, is that we simply do not know what happened to her. George Putnam died in 1950 at age 62 of kidney problems. Amy, Amelia's mother, died in 1962 at age 95, and her sister Muriel passed away in 1998 at the age of 98.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Searchers continue to hunt for any signs of Amelia Earhart or her plane. As recently as 2023, a deep sea exploration group released an underwater sonar image of what they thought was the plane. But in 2024, they discovered it was just a bunch of rocks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh huh. Plane shaped rocks. All that in mind. Instead of focusing on the mysterious ending of Amelia's story, we can always relish in what we do know about her life and her bold approach to living. As writer Anthony Brandt has said, quote, it wasn't that Amelia was willful, rather that she was free. She was calm, fearless, cheerful in the face of life, and she attracted everybody. She believed that women should live lives rich in experience and have careers if they possibly could.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she lived her belief. She was a remarkable human being, a historic figure, one of those people who's skirting the farthermost edges of experience, open up possibilities for us all. And that is the story of pioneering aviatrix Amelia Earhart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Boom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

High five for Amelia Earhart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Had to be done.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you're in the fifth grade and you heard anything I said that was wrong, please write in atmy favorite murdermail.com because we know you all have done reports on her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we're open to correct always.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Women should live free. It's insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine?

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it really is the truth. It is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was its own. Hooray.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like I do too. Yeah, that was pretty great. Pretty great ending.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Still send us hoorays and comment them, but please, that was it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. This week we've done all the work we need to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I agree.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great. Then stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Commercial Announcer]

Goodbye, Elvis.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And follow the show on Instagram at. My favorite Murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to My favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or you can watch us on YouTube, search for my favorite Murder, then like and subscribe. Goodbye. At CVS it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Your credit craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We can't wait to meet you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Store Hours Buried by location this time.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

And personal engravings, this season give a gift that's perfectly theirs. Whether you're shopping for a shiny surprise for your significant other, matching bracelets to celebrate your friendship or a heartfelt gift.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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