520 - Kind of Meant to Be-ish

Summary

My Favorite Murder – Episode 520: "Kind of Meant to Be-ish"

Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark
Release Date: February 19, 2026
Podcast Network: Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

This episode blends trademark banter, pop culture references, and a comedic yet respectful approach to true crime as Karen and Georgia delve into two stories: the wrongful conviction and redemption of boxer Rubin "Hurricane" Carter, and the unbelievable survival story of Lt. Leon Crane after a WWII plane crash in the Alaskan wilderness. The hosts explore themes of racial injustice, resilience, fate, and survival, with memorable asides and relatable commentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Catching Up & Podcast Chatter (02:32–12:48)

• Hosts discuss recent events, pop culture, and personal habits
  • Super Bowl halftime show with Bad Bunny and its emotional impact for Puerto Rican families and representation (02:52–03:51)
    • Karen: “I have been just sitting around my house watching families have big emotional shared experiences and crying, staring at my phone.” (03:15)
  • Social media breaks, the Epstein case, and mental health (04:10–04:42)
  • Karen’s appearance on the “Brief Recess” podcast, and discussion of Kurt Cobain conspiracy theories (05:00–05:50)
    • Karen: “They’re now getting together evidence that Kurt Cobain did not kill himself…” (05:05)
  • Lighthearted confusion over time and podcast production delays (06:00–06:28)
  • Network plug: Other Exactly Right shows and updates, including new podcast launches covering cults and cold cases (06:28–09:41)

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Story #1: The Rubin "Hurricane" Carter Case – Told by Georgia (13:09–37:37)

Background and Early Life

• Rubin Carter’s difficult childhood (13:31–17:02)
  • Physically abusive father, poverty, stuttering, early fighting skills, and time in a brutal juvenile facility
  • Carter (via autobiography): “The kindest thing I can say about my childhood is that I survived it.” (13:31)

Military Service, Boxing, and Early Legal Troubles

• Young adulthood and Army boxing (17:25–21:40)
  • Early run-in with law after self-defense stabbing as a child
  • Army service: excels in boxing after knocking out a heavyweight champion in his first bout without training (19:01)
  • Finds power in voice and speech therapy, explores Islam for empowerment

Ascendancy and Outspokenness as a Boxer

• Boxing career & police harassment (21:46–24:56)
  • Rapid rise in the boxing world, fame for aggressive style and social outspokenness
  • Noted for unapologetic stands against law enforcement’s racism
    • Carter (quoted): “If you act like you’re afraid of me, you better be afraid of me, because I would do to you exactly what you would do to me. I just do it quicker.” (21:54)
  • Frequent targeting by police, illustrating institutional racism

The Lafayette Bar Murders & Wrongful Conviction

• The Crime (23:38–25:28)

  • 1966 triple homicide at a New Jersey bar; Carter and John Artis implicated largely on dubious witness testimony
  • Physical descriptions from the main witness didn’t fit Carter—he was shorter and already well-known locally
  • Key witnesses (Bellow and Bradley) motivated by reward money and leniency for their own crimes

• Trials and Imprisonment (26:31–33:00)

  • Both Carter and Artis convicted, based on recanted and unreliable testimonies, racist motive fabricated by prosecution
  • Three witnesses provide alibis but are ignored
  • Life sentences imposed; Carter maintains radical self-reliance in prison and becomes a model of resilience
    • Karen: “So does it feel like a setup?” (26:31)

The Movement and Fight for Exoneration

• Cultural Influence & Renewed Hope (27:55–36:00)

  • Carter’s autobiography draws celebrity attention; Bob Dylan writes and releases “Hurricane,” rallies support
  • Recantations from witnesses and uncovering of prosecution misconduct lead to retrials
  • Convicted again based on shaky evidence; spends years in prison before release is finally secured

• Final Exoneration & Legacy (34:10–37:37)

  • Support from Canadian commune and young fan Lesra Martin critical in legal fight
  • U.S. District Court overturns convictions due to “fatally infected” trial (34:46)
  • Carter goes on to found Innocence Canada, freely devotes his life to freeing wrongfully convicted people
  • Passes away in 2014, advocating for one last innocent man until the end
    • Carter (quoted in final days):
      “In my own years on this planet, though, I lived in hell for the first 49 years and have been in heaven for the past 28 years. To live in a world where truth matters and justice, however late, really happens, that world would be heaven enough for us all.” (36:43)

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Notable Quotes

• Georgia (on wrongful convictions): “It doesn't matter who's on your fucking side. Not if the system's corrupt.” (32:29)
• Karen (on Carter’s activism): “The idea that he left prison to then turn around and help other wrongfully convicted people says it all to me.” (36:17)

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Story #2: Survival of Lt. Leon Crane – Told by Karen (40:21–69:05)

Crash and Solitude

• Plane crash over Alaska, 1943
  • Lt. Crane, an untrained city kid, parachutes out and survives alone in -40° conditions (43:05–44:34)
  • Immediate realization of severe isolation, with no hope of rescue after many days (46:39–49:47)

Survival Journey

• Improvised survival strategies

  • Wraps in parachute, uses matches and a knife; has to burn father’s letter for kindling (47:27–48:32)
  • Unsuccessful attempts to catch squirrels; eats snow for hydration
  • After nine days, weak, decides to follow the frozen river downstream for help (51:12–52:52)

• Miracle Cabins

  • Spots an unlocked, fully stocked trapper’s cabin—common local custom (53:02–54:13)
  • Replenished and rested, tries to find nearby settlements, but wilderness is endless
  • Six weeks of repeated cabin ventures, then sets out again with makeshift sled

Ordeal Continues

• Pitfalls and Perseverance
  • Falls into river, nearly succumbs to freezing, has to dry his clothes over fire while naked (57:03–58:21)
  • Abandons heavy supplies, continues traversing the wild (59:05–59:51)
  • Finds yet another cabin, survives for weeks, continues on when supplies run low (59:51–61:21)

Rescue & Epilogue

• Contact with Civilization

  • Encounters trapper Albert Ames, who helps him recover and takes him by dog sled to Woodchopper, Alaska, after 81 days alone (61:56–66:09)
  • Reunites with famed trapper Phil Bareil, whose cabin saved his life

• Legacy

  • Returns home, engineers helicopters, never seeks fame, but his journey becomes legend (67:17–69:05)
  • Children retrace his steps years later, finding remnants still there
    • Crane (reflecting): “God awful place, Alaska. Ice and snow and cold as hell.” (68:29)

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Notable Quotes

• Karen (on fate and resilience):
  “It’s the people who keep trudging along… who take risks… who dig down and go, ‘I want to live….’ I will believe there are unlocked cabins filled with raisins to the brim.” (60:04)
• Karen (on reflections after 81 days):
  “I looked like some strange species of prehistoric man. I was dirty and sunburned and windburned and my eyes stared back at me from the centers of two deep black circles.” (63:59)

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Memorable Moments & Humor

• Stories peppered with classic Karen-and-Georgia banter, digressions, and self-deprecating humor (“Imagine me being a boxer. I’d be like the hummingbird,” Georgia quips at 21:28)
• Candid talk about trauma, true crime weariness, and the ongoing need to “keep going” (59:05–60:25)
• Their metaphors about life: “You gotta make your own sled… focus that there will be a cabin that’s unlocked… there’s hot cocoa in the future and a pocket full of raisins." (59:09–60:25)
• Karen’s confession about walking into a wall at a Bob Dylan movie (28:18–28:57), prompting laughter over relatable embarrassment

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Segment Timestamps

• Catch-Up/Banter: 02:32–12:48
• Rubin "Hurricane" Carter Story (Georgia): 13:09–37:37
• Lt. Leon Crane Survival Story (Karen): 40:21–69:05
• Listener “Honking Hoorays”: 69:28–72:38

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Listener “Honking Hoorays” (69:28–72:38)

• Elena returns to choir after 22 years, discovers renewed joy
  • “You’re never too old. It’s never too late. And don’t listen to anyone who laughs at something that brings you joy.” (70:37–70:42)
• Mike Kelly transitions to becoming an ER social worker after toxic workplace—hosts discuss stress and the courage to switch high-stress jobs (71:10–71:34)
• DJ finds happiness making bread at a small bakery: “Stay sexy and eat local carbs.” (72:23)
• Georgia: “All the stuff that makes you feel good brings you joy like the ER… like social work in the ER.” (72:24–72:31)

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Tone & Language

• Warm, conversational, irreverent but deeply empathetic
• Openness about mental health, injustice, and everyday struggles
• Balances heavy true crime analysis with humor and encouragement (“Stay sexy and don’t get murdered.”)

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Conclusion

This episode provides both a detailed, moving account of Rubin Carter’s journey from wrongly convicted felon to civil rights advocate, and an epic survival tale echoing lessons about grit, luck, and the kindness of strangers, all wrapped in Karen and Georgia’s signature style: dark humor, warmth, and lively storytelling.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstark That's Karen Kilgariff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this is a podcast that's also a video podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why do I feel like we haven't done this in months? Does it feel like that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it feels very foreign. You know what it was. Cause we flipped our record days.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it actually is much longer between records.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know in our minds, which I hate. Cause, like, we talk about the super bowl now and how amazing Bad Bunny was. That happened fucking two weeks ago.

[Karen Kilgariff]

People are like, shut up. Yeah, Bad Bunny was amazing. But then did we talk about the reaction videos from the families who are watching the super bowl and then watching themselves be represented and recognizing all the references and people who know Puerto Rico and. Oh, my God. I mean, I have been just sitting around my house watching families have big emotional shared experiences and crying, staring at my phone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so crazy, though. That thing was incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it was. It was moving, like, so beautiful and wonderful. Especially because there are people who just didn't like it based on the fucking. Based on nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Based on fear.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very stupid fear.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And hopefully this did something to fix that divide. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, 164 million people watched it and were into it or at least watched it long enough to be recorded.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I think that's all people need to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The majority of people are open into it, want to be a part of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Things, support it, all the things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dancing grass and all of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's going on with you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just exactly what I told you. Me watching families have experiences.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, see, the problem is I took Instagram off my phone because I was getting just trigger upon trigger with the Epstein files.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I just needed to stop. Cause, you know, as soon as I start clicking on it, that's all they feed me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I'm getting fed and fed. And so now I took it off, but I'm just reading Virginia Roberts Giuffre's memoir, which is, you know, at least it's from her mouth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you were reading it on social media and then listening to a book about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. Yeah, that's. We gotta measure out and mete out our horrible realities and our unbelievable truths that we're all now living through.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I just co hosted Brief Recess with Michael.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's awesome. Foot. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On it. I was told for the first time, and I don't know if you've already heard this, they're now getting together. The evidence that Kurt Cobain did not kill himself, that was breaking on that show where I was like, sorry, like he was telling me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I was like, I have the evidence now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, they want it to be looked at again. And then they did, like, point by point evidence that they have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I fucking buy it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

One of the things was that all of the caps were put back on the heroin needles that he supposedly used to. No, the word is that he OD'd with three needles full of heroin and then shot himself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the caps were on those needles.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that doesn't really add up that altogether.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was just like, wait, what? And then that's just the first couple things you mentioned.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Okay, now I have to get back on it, but I can't wait to hear more about that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's just so much to. To absorb and accept, and by the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Time this comes out, that could already be. That could already be solved completely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So just bear with us. You guys were.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're a little bit behind on our break on our breaking weekly podcast. You can't. Weekly's not enough. Daily's not enough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. No. We're a little behind on the uptake. Is that what they say?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. It's not behind on the uptake. It's slow on the uptake.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Slow on the uptake. I. I'm slow. I'm behind on the slow uptake.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Took me literally seven full seconds to tell you what it actually is to correct you about being slow on that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what we guarantee you here at My favorite murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you know what podcasting is? Cause you just saw it in action. Okay, so we have a podcast network called Exactly Right. There's many wonderful shows on it, and we'd love to tell you about some of them right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. This week on I said no Gifts, Bridger does his best not to go for the throat when Alison Toldman from St. Denis Medical and Fargo shows up with a gift.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they're classy scones. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then over on Brief Recess, I teased this already. Michael's joined by substitute co host Karen Kilgariff with a special guest appearance from the therapist from Euphoria. You know her, you love her. It's Martha Kelly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love her. I love the trailer for the new season where she's fucking balling so hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so exciting. I can't wait to watch her do that. Martha is the funniest. And if you've never seen her stand up, one of the best standups there is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It'll make this character even better when you know how fucking hilarious she is in her life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then on Dear Movies I Love youe, Millie and Casey honor Black History Month by revisiting the 2018 film Sorry to Bother your. They also dig into listener emails and pose the eternal question, should you finish a movie even if you're not feeling it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. No, never.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I never do. Okay, I have to get up and go stand in the kitchen, so why would I be sitting there watching something I don't like? I need to be over there puttering over on Trust Me. Lola and Megan have such a great time with Martina Castro, the creator and host of Our newest podcast, 2Face John of God, that they actually had to make that episode a two parter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So rad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Precious. This week is part one of their conversation where Martina breaks down John of God's rise to international fame as a self proclaimed psychic surgeon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just saw Megan and Lola in the kitchen here at Exactly Right Studios. And speaking of two faced John of God, Episode four is now out. It follows journalists from Brazil's largest news organization as they investigate John of God's rape allegations. As more women come forward, it becomes clear the story is far bigger than anyone realized.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Such a good podcast. Gotta go listen to it. Also, if you're listening to us right now, you might be interested to know that you can also watch us on Netflix new episodes and then long take to the camera. Light, surprise, fear, trepidation and joy. All right, new episodes of My Favorite Murder and Buried Bones are released weekly. So when you're there, please remember to hit the double thumbs up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, don't be confused. It's thumbs up in some places. It's double thumbs up in Netflix. Yeah, so don't forget that one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's your way to star it, to like it, to heart it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And if you're outside the US or not into Netflix, that's okay. Just remember the fan cult has you covered. Full episode videos are now available along with ad free episodes, merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content. There's a lot of that and more. [e-mail] to get access and join in the fun. Whee.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Janet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Janet is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Janet's right about that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But the whole story actually has several more twists and turns. This is the story of a promising boxer who was wrongfully convicted twice, or more, depending on who you ask. He went on to become one of the world's most prominent advocates for the wrongfully convicted. As the Bob Dylan song goes, here comes the story of the Hurricane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Such a good movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Such a good movie. Such a good song. I played it for Vince, who of course knows the song but didn't realize what it was about. So we, like, listened to it together. It's a great fucking song. The main sources I used for the story are Rubin Hurricane Carter's own autobiography, the Sixteenth Round, which he published from prison, and Rubin's New York Times obituary. And the rest of the sources are found in the show notes. In regard to Ruben, I'm gonna call him Ruben for now. His childhood. In his own words, he says, quote, the kindest thing I can say about my childhood is that I survived it. End quote. He's born in 1937 to Lloyd and Bertha Carter and grows up in Passaic in Paterson, New Jersey. Do you know them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've heard of Passaic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I have two. Isn't there a. Is there a Passaic or something?

[Karen Kilgariff]

If there is, I mean, Molly, do we. If the Bravo team has gotten onto Passaic in the way that we think.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They should, isn't it near the Falls? Niagara Falls? I think it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I thought it was near an airport.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Passaic airport, sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hold on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not on Bravo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great. Confirmed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Potomac. I'm thinking of Potomac.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. He's one of seven kids, and the family is more comfortable than a lot of their neighbors. But Ruben has a very difficult relationship with his dad, who is physically abusive. It's all the stories we've heard so many, so many times. And also Ruben stutters, which is hard for him. But by the time he's eight, he does gain a reputation in the neighborhood for being a talented fighter. And that outweighs the fact that he has a stutter. And so he falls in with sort of a kid's street gang that fights other kids and commits minor crimes. It's just, you know, juvenile delinquency pretty early on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, I would imagine that his fighting and his stutter are interconnected. Cause he's just like, you're gonna let people bully you or say shit to you about something, go fight them, right? Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like he kind of had to do that. It's like do or die, sort of. Yeah. When Ruben's dad finds out about a petty theft that he and his friends committed in town, he beats Reuben and then turns him into the police, leaving Ruben alone with them for questioning. And the officer also beats Reuben again. He's not much older than eight at this time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When Ruben is 11 years old, so we're talking like the late 40s. He and some other boys are at Passaic Waterfalls, which you've. Ali says you've seen them in the Sopranos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah, I remember them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. When a man attempts to sexually abuse several of them, the boys fight back. And Reuben, who has a knife in his pocket, stabs the man. The man's injured, but he survives. But consequently, Reuben is sent to a state run juvenile facility called Jamesburg Home for the Boys. And just we can think about old timey, you know, institutions for children, for children who are not behaving is like nightmare, right? And it is a nightmare. There's no rehabilitation and no education actually going on. The boys are assigned to work details, and Rubin works in the industrial laundry room. Rubin writes in his book that kids from 8 years old ended up there for varying infractions and that the setting was a, quote, atmosphere more vicious than the slums they left could ever Be. End quote. Ruben is supposed to be paroled when he's 17, but when that's taken away by an abusive corrections officer and made up disciplinary infraction and now he has to stay longer, Rubin and another inmate escape. He makes it home to Patterson and miraculously the police aren't waiting for him at his parents house. So his mother Bertha packs him a suitcase and sends him off to a relative in Philadelphia. It seems like the dad was the one who was like vying for him to be incarcerated and locked up and. Yeah, and then mom just sent him to a family member.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean it's one thing to punish a child, but especially like we've all seen those and those kinds of like reformatory.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where it's just the adults aren't trained, you know, it's for profit. It's child prison.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's not enough of those employees or. Yeah, yeah, there's just not enough of anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. And if you're children of color, worst.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Case scenario, Ruben spends just two weeks in Philadelphia and then he joins the. They don't know that he had been locked up and he's basically got a warrant out for his arrest. He goes through basic training in South Carolina. And while the other recruits struggle to get used to the discipline, the physical conditioning and the terrible food, it's actually a significant step up from James Berg. So he actually doesn't mind it that much. But then when a white superior who's berating him calls him a racial slur, Rubin punches him in the face and he gets some other disciplinary infractions along those lines. So the movie with Denzel Washington kind of glosses over a lot of the rough and tumble, you know, of his life, but you know, you can understand why. So Ruben's unit goes to a base in Germany when he's around 18. And on the base there's a lieutenant who coaches the boxing team. The lieutenant has Reuben try out boxing with no prior training by entering the ring with the two year all army heavyweight champion. Just get on in there and let's see what you can do. Thinking this will show him. And Ruben is actually only 5, 8 and like £150 to begin with. But he knocks the guy out cold after three punches.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And after that I think the lieutenant's like, oh shit, you gotta be like, you need to do this. And he's assigned to a special unit so that he can become the new star of the army's boxing team.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean he's been training since he was eight years old.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. After he starts boxing, other things start to fall into place. Ruben gets speech therapy and overcomes his stutter. And that opens a new passion for expressing himself, for reading and writing and education. And he writes, quote, silence was no longer a defense mechanism for me. It became instead a luxury. If I kept quiet now, it was only because I wanted to and not because I felt I had to, end quote, to hide his stutter. At this point in time, Rubin also starts exploring Islam under the tutelage of a fellow soldier. He finds its messaging empowering, especially having been oppressed by multiple systems of white supremacy over the course of his life, though he doesn't ever formally convert. Now, even though Rubin is flourishing in a lot of ways during this time in his life, he's not exactly becoming a model soldier. And he gets in trouble repeatedly in the army, and he's eventually discharged. He intends to become a professional boxer, but he first gets in trouble with the law. He's sent to prison for 10 months because there's still that warrant out for his. From something he did when he was a child.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, also, it makes sense that he has problems with authority. You know what I mean? It's just like the army would be perfect for him in some ways. But then it's not like he's getting therapy. It's not like he's right. You know, he fits in, and there's a bunch of stuff he's natural at. But then he's also like the shadow of his past abusers are right there as. But now they're his sergeants, are his.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Leaders, and they're not. Not racist.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly.

[Narrator/Guest Voice]

You know what I mean?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's kind of the same thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the, what, 40s, 50s?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, it's the 2026, and it's still fucking pretty goddamn racist. So he's sent to prison for 10 months, and then he serves about three more years. Cause he snatched a woman's purse and assaulted a man, both of which he did while he was drunk. So he's released from prison in 1961, when he's about 24 years old. And this is when he actually starts to get his boxing career off the ground. He's quickly named the Hurricane because of his aggressive fighting style. And around this time, Ruben meets a woman named. This is the best name, Mae Thel. And they get married and have a daughter. This is a photo of him in the military.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then this is him in the boxing stance. Oh, yeah, I know, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's Serious?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I'd be scared if I were the opponent. Imagine me being a boxer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It'd go real fast. I'd be like the hummingbird. You'd be like, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Over the next three years, he climbs from the bottom of the top 10 middleweight fighters toward the top, and he becomes a. Well, it's got a lot of similarities to Muhammad Ali's story, which I've covered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the past, and Mike Tyson.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah. So in this background, Rubin gets a reputation for being very charming and charismatic, but also for being unabashedly critical of law enforcement. In the buildup of several of his fights, he doesn't hide his contempt for the police or his belief that black people should stand up for themselves when confronted with racist violence. He says, quote, if you act like you're afraid of me, you better be afraid of me, because I would do to you exactly what you would do to me. And then he says, I just do it quicker, end quote. As a result of this, he is frequently stopped and harassed by police officers. At this point, when Ruben's 29, everything in his life comes to a screeching halt. So in the wee hours of June 17, 1966, in the Lafayette Bar and Grill in Patterson, New Jersey, which is a dive bar in a bad part of town that's also notorious for not serving black people, four people are shot. Their names are Jim Oliver, who is the bartender, and three customers, Hazel Tanis, Fred Naujuks and Willie Marans. Willie and Hazel initially survive, though Hazel will succumb to her injuries. A month later, Willie is blinded in one eye, and he and another witness say that the shooters are two black men, one who held a pistol and one who held a shotgun. One witness named Alfred Bellow is standing outside the bar when the police get there, but he had actually gone into the bar after the shooting to try to take the cash from the register. Oh, so this is gonna become their main witness against Ruben. Yeah, so this is who we're talking about. He says he saw two black men, both of whom were around five' 11. And let's remember Ruben is famously on the short side for a middleweight boxer at five' eight. Like, those are not heights that you get mixed up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Ruben's car actually matches the description of the getaway car. And so he had been out driving around that night, and he is in the car with a 19 year old man he knows named John Artis as well as another man. They're stopped by the police who say they're looking for two black Men rub, then quips, any two will do. But the police actually let them go. And the third man gets out of the car and goes home. But later that night, they were looking for two black men. The police circle back to Ruben and John, and they are brought to the hospital where Willie Marins, the guy with the. Who I got shot out, he's conscious, and police ask him if Reuben and John are the ones who shot him. Willie and another witness who knows what Rubens looks like because he's famous in the area as being this prize fighter. They both say it's not him. Oh, wow. Yeah. Despite this, Ruben and John are brought to the station where they're interrogated for hours, insisting that they were not at the lafayette. And they're actually let go at this point. And four months pass. And then in October of 1966, Reuben and John are arrested and charged with the three murders. What happened over the course of those four months? Well, a $10,000 reward was offered for information leading to an arrest. How much is $10,000? In 1966, 70,100. I almost accidentally said it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So this caused Alfred Bellow, the man who police had already spoken to outside the bar, and another man, Arthur Dexter Bradley, to come forward. So Bellow was the guy who stole the cash from the register after there was a shooting and people were fucking dead in a bar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He actually got in there and got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I think, like, before the police got there. Right. Which is just jarring how?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it points to, like, the desperation of everybody that it sounds like in a dive bar in a bad part of town. That's what happens.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. And actually, it turned out that he had been a lookout that night while his accomplice, Bradley, was burglarizing a neighboring factory. So they're there to burglarize. He goes in and steals money from a crime scene, but he's their main witness. And despite the fact that Bella's original statement to the police had described men not matching Ruben and John's descriptions, and despite the. The fact that he had previously agreed that Ruben was not one of the shooters, he now changes his story and says that Reuben and John were the men that he saw that night. And Bradley, the other guy, who previously didn't admit to seeing anything, says the same thing. So Reuben and John's case goes to trial in 1967. Bellow testifies that he saw both men at the scene that night, and Bradley testifies that he only saw Reuben. The prosecution doesn't offer any kind of motive for the killings. And three other witnesses provide alibis for both men for the time of the murder. Despite this, Rubin and John are both found guilty. And Reuben is sentenced to 30 years to life. And John 15 years to life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So does it feel like a setup?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it feels like these guys want to get the money and the cops want to nab somebody for it. And it's convenient that it all works out for all the white people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, well, but I was going to say that seems like the cops, like if Ruben was the kind of person that's like any two will do. Which it must have felt amazing just to be able to say that, cuz it, it's absolutely the truth that they had to live under. But then it's like you can. I'm sure that there was some white sergeant somewhere that's like, that guy needs to be taught a lesson.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Sargent isn't the rank. I don't really know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

While in prison, Reuben refuses to wear his uniform most of the time, which means he can't leave his cell. And he foregoes most prison meals heating up his own cans of soup on an electric coil. Basically, you know, it's his own way of. Of fighting the system however he can.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And avoiding that food that you know is disgusting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He reads voraciously, especially books from the law library. And while Ruben refuses to acknowledge many of the realities of prison life, like that uniform, he's also so respected by his fellow inmates that he is able to keep peace in the prison on multiple occasions when things could have turned violent. And in fact, one prison guard credits Ruben with saving his life during a riot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In November of 1974, from prison, Rubin, now 37 years old, publishes his autobiography, The Sixteenth Round. The book gets a lot of attention and Bob Dylan reads it and visits Ruben in prison. You should have heard me trying to sing that to Vince while I was like trying to remember. Do you know that song? And I just kept singing, fucking, terrible, terrible, stupid, fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, it is a really good song though also. It just makes me want to stop everything. But it's gonna take too long to tell the story. But I told you the story when I walked into the wall in the movie theater. Right, because we came in late. No, and it was the Bob Dylan movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it was very dark and it was like the beginning where you see that visiting someone in the hospital and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You thought you were turning into this theater and you just walked into a fucking wall.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I thought that I was gonna get to the stairs on the other side and go down, because I couldn't find my cousins and there were no stairs on the other side. So I just very slowly walked into a wall, a carpeted wall. But luckily, Sophie was sitting in the last seat. So she. She's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, God damn it. I would have left.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I would have fucking left.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We laughed for the rest of the movie and there was all these, like, of course, heavy things in it, and we could not stop laughing. It was the dumbest. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry. No, it's good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're back. We needed a little stopover.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Okay. So Bob Dylan visits Ruben in prison, and then he releases the song Hurricane, which tells the story of what happened that night, which charts in the top 40 in 1975. Ruben and John's case gains widespread attention at this point. And at that time, they're finally awarded a new trial. So this is chiefly because Bello and Bradley, the two witnesses, quote, had recanted their statements.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It had also been revealed that the prosecution had promised to be lenient to each of them on their own crimes they were committing in that moment that night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So they get the reward money and they get leniency, you know, Know, to raise money for their defense. Bob Dylan headlines a concert at Madison Square Garden and then one at the Houston Astrodome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. We don't do that anymore. Remember, like, all the tribute concerts people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Would do and the, like, Farm Aid and Live Aid and USA for Africa? Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Those.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We need that. I think it's because our center has completely exploded. So there's nobody outside of the bad stuff to be like, here's how we're gonna help. Everyone's inside of it going, like, we don't know what to do. Also, our media is completely state run at this point. We don't know what's going on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. You just basically said it all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know what's going on. I don't know what to do about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We could play the Astrodome. It's not there anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the New Jersey Supreme Court overturns Reuben and John's sentences based on the recantations. But the Passaic county prosecutor decides they want to try the case again and goes back to trial. In 1976, Reuben and John are out on bail for nine months. In between that, and at the new trial, Bellow recants his recantation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

But Bradley doesn't. He's like, I swear, was a lie. And so that means he's the prosecution's only witness placing Rubin at the scene and other people saying he wasn't, you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. The liar and the stealer. The one holding out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. The one who can actually gain from this whole situation is your only witness.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This time the prosecution does offer a motive, saying the killing was revenge for the prior shooting of a black bartender in town. But there's no evidence to back this. However, Ruben and John are found guilty again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, you're surprised.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess I did see the movie, but I didn't. It's just when you hear about the details of these things, where it's so thin and it's so overt and it's such a scam.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just heartbreaking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is a scam.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What do we do?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll work on it later.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We have to do this podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Gotta burn. It's coming down anyway. I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're found guilty again. Ruben's second child, a son, is born two days after he's found guilty again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

See, this is that heartbreak of, like, you're telling me this man has spent so much time in jail in his life, and then he gets out for nine months for the retrial.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he gets that taste of real life again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Like, maybe this will work out. Maybe, like I'm actually free. They. They saw the error of their ways.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's tons of people behind me now. Like, my story's being told, Right? No, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It doesn't matter who's on your fucking side.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not if the system's corrupt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. Right after his second conviction, Rubin tells the New York Times, quote, they can incarcerate my body, but they can never incarcerate my mind. End quote. And that holds true as Ruben spends five more years in prison. It's a dark time, obviously. He and his wife get divorced, and Reuben is so hopeless that he doesn't read any of the letters that pile up in his cell from supporters of his case. Because now it's like a known story and there's so many people writing in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And reading those letters would just be so bittersweet, if not just so depressing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. But for some reason, In September of 1980, he opens a letter, a random letter, and he'll later say it's because the letter had vibrations and the letter's from a 17 year old kid. This is a fucking long story that I'm gonna just truncate, but it's a 17 year old kid in Toronto named Lesra Martin. And Lesra had read Rubin's book and was that he wanted to get in touch and thank him. And so Lesrah's letter to Rubin leaves him so touched that he begins corresponding with the teenager. So Lesrah had actually been adopted from a tough neighborhood in Brooklyn by a commune of artists and academics living in a mansion in Toronto. The 1980s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Seriously, a.k.a. heaven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It wasn't a great. It ended up not being a totally great place. Oh, shit. Right. But it's. When there's a bunch of people together, it's always gonna go to shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

After hearing about Rubin through Lesra, three of the members of the commune wind up moving down to New Jersey to work full time on Rubin's wrongful conviction case.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And after numerous appeals, the case is heard in the U.S. district Court in Newark. And the judge overturns the conviction on constitutional grounds, ruling that the prosecutors had, quote, fatally infected the trial, end quote. With an unfound theory of racial revenge. Rubin is free for good in 1985 at the age of 49, having spent just about 20 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. And James had been paroled in 1981. So he leaves prison. And for his first six years after leaving, Rubin lives at the commune in Toronto.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He goes back. Eventually the commune proves to also be too oppressive for him, and he leaves it. It's a very long story that. That I'm making very small, but you can look it up when's independent. In Toronto, Rubin founds a group called association in Defense of the Wrongfully Convicted, which is now called Innocence Canada. They actively work on the cases of people who they believe are wrongfully convicted. The group has helped to exonerate 36 wrongfully convicted Canadians. In addition, Reuben works as a motivational speaker and advocates for the wrongfully convicted all over the world, contributing to many, many more exonerations. Then, in 1999, director Norman Jewison makes a movie about his life called the Hurricane Denzel. The movie glosses over his military discharge and his prior convictions to make it look like he's a purely sympathetic figure. But like, when you know the truth of his actual life and the violence and unfairness that he overcame, the fact that he spent his formative years in highly abusive and highly racist institutions. It makes his later contributions to society that much more impressive. Meaning, like, we don't. You don't have to gloss over them. You don't have to be a perfect person to deserve a perfect life and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To not deserve being wrongfully convicted for a crime he did not commit to just then be another body that's being warehoused in this prison system.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. It's almost more impressive that he ended up being this incredible, you know, motivational person.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. The idea that he left prison to then turn around and help other wrongfully convicted people says it all to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. He could have walked away and just lived his life, and he didn't, which is okay too. Go live your fucking life. Everyone. When asked about being played by Denzel Washington, Ruben says, quote, I didn't know I was that good looking. End quote. Well, here's a photo of Ruben and Denzel Washington. Let's show that one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aww.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, look at that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Such a cute picture. Reuben dies at 76 years old in April of 2014 of prostate cancer, and he spends his last weeks campaigning for the release of a black man named David McCallum who had been wrongfully imprisoned for 29 years. He writes an op ed for the New York Daily News called Hurricane Carter's Dying Wish, saying, quote, if I find a heaven after this life, I'll be quite surprised. In my own years on this planet, though, I lived in hell for the first 49 years and have been in heaven for the past 28 years. To live in a world where truth matters and justice, however late really happens, that world would be heaven enough for us all. End quote. David McCallum is freed four months after Ruben's death. And that is the story of Reuben Hurricane Carter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amazing. What a quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a great quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's really true. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very inspiring.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So read his book. It's called the 16th round.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't it nice to see old friends you've trauma bonded with?

[Georgia Hardstark]

30 years after it all began, the characters we grew up with are back in Scream 7.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sidney Prescott has built a new life in a quiet little town. But her darkest fears are realized as her daughter becomes the next target of the Ghostface Killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Determined to protect her family, Sidney must face the horrors of her past to put an end to the bloodshed once and for all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Neve Campbell returns as Sidney Prescott, one of the most iconic final girl roles in horror history.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Courtney Cox is back as intrepid reporter Gale Weathers. Pl Savoy Brown and Mason Gooding return as Mindy and Chad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This film celebrates the 30th anniversary of Scream, honoring a franchise that helped define modern horror and reshape the genre.

[Georgia Hardstark]

See Scream 7 in theaters February 27, 2026. Because screams are always better when you hear them together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye, Eight years ago, Katie Cannon was playing in the backyard of her family home the day she went missing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When she was found, she was uncovered alive in a 3,000 year old sarcophagus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What happened to Katie?

[Georgia Hardstark]

From the studio that brought you weapons and producers James Wan and Blumhouse comes a terrifying new vision.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On April 17, discover the truth. Lee Cronin's the Mummy Some things are meant to stay buried.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Only in theaters April 17th this film is not yet rated. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. The hardest part of any wellness routine is sticking with it. Because chips.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Luckily Caciava makes it easy to stay on track.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cachava is an all in one nutrition shake. Made with high quality ingredients, it's a.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Full plant based meal that supports your whole body and actually tastes good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just two scoops provide 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, adaptogens and so much more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cachava is available in six great flavors. Chocolate, vanilla, chai, matcha, coconut, acai and strawberry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ditch one dimensional protein powders. With 25 grams of protein plus superfoods, nutrients and more, Kachava gives you everything your body needs to perform, recover and feel your best every single day. Here's what I love about Kachava is that there's always a moment in the morning where I've had a little too much coffee and I'm like, now I have to eat breakfast, but I, I don't know what to do. And I just pull that bag down, I measure out, it's whatever the amount of water, throw in the extra stuff that I want to throw in, throw it in the blender, it's in one minute. My problem is solved. I want to eat it for every meal of the day. I'm sorry, the convenience and then the vitamins. What a combination.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it tastes good. Stick with your wellness goals.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to kachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Kachava. K-A C-H-A-A.com code MFM.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. All right, so I'm gonna take a left turn. As we like to do, we play levels, we do different tones and tastes, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

We contain multitudes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We always have. And I'm gonna tell you a survival story which is one of my favorite things to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Classic Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our story begins in Alaska on December 21, 1943. Okay, we're in the thick of World War II. It's around 9:45 in the morning and a crew of five Americans in a B24 Liber bomber plane has just taken off for a test flight. From what used to be called Laddfield but is now called Fort Wayne Wright in Fairbanks, Alaska. Okay, here's the plane. Oh, right away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh yeah. So old school.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So old school. The co pilots of this plane are Lieutenant Leon Crane and second lieutenant Harold Hoskin. The flight crew is Sergeant Ralph Wenz, Master Sergeant Richard Pompeo and Lieutenant James Seibert. As of this day, there's no active threat. But the allies are afraid that could be an enemy invasion of America by way of Alaska. So the troops are taking these routine flights and patrolling the area. So here is a picture of Lieutenant Leon Crane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's one of the pilots.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I'm sorry, the other day I was in Jess office and I don't remember we were chatting about. But one of her Christina said, do you know, if you ask, ask any man if he thinks he could land a plane. They all say they can. They think they can. Really? Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's like when men were saying they thought they could fight off a bear.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. I asked Vince and he laughed and said hell no. So like I'm really happy for that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's actually pretty wild. I also recently just saw what was a viral video. Do you ever see that one of the girl who had just gotten her pilot's license, she'd flown three times and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Her, she was with her?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, she's by herself. And the landing gear like locked up. And she just didn't have any landing gear in the back, I think. So a commercial pilot jumps on and talks her through the landing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she does it and it's fine. It's one of the scariest, craziest things that I was like, I don't wanna watch this, but I have to see what happens to the end. It's scary, it's amazing. Okay, so it's all business for this flight crew until just after noon when the Bomber is about 130 miles out from Ladd over the Alaskan interior when one of the engines fails. So the bomber begins to spin. The pilots fight to regain control, but the plane goes into a nose dive at 300 miles an hour and smashes into the snowy earth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's silent until one man's voice can be heard calling out for the others. And what begins as a tragedy now restarts as an incredible story of survival that will play out for the the next 81 days across the Alaskan interior. This is the story of 24 year old Lieutenant Leon Crane's long journey back to civilization.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I forgot it was a survivor story that, that Quickly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's that easy. Show you a couple pictures.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Done right. Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the main sources used today are the book 81 days below zero by Brian Murphy and Tula valahu. Also a 2023 Anchorage Daily News article by journalist David Reamer, entit in the wilderness for 81 days. A write up on the National Park Service's website entitled WWII Survival Story from the Charlie River. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So when the plane was crashing amid all the chaos, Lt. Crane somehow gets his parachute on and is able to eject himself from the bomber or bail out. So as he's floating down to the earth, he watches the bomber in the distance as it smashes into a mountainside and erupt into what he'll later describe as, quote, a huge blob of red flame.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yikes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Miraculously, he was like out before any of that ever happened. Yeah, when I first was reading it, I was like, this man survived a nosedive into the earth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was totally picturing that. Climbing out of the wreckage.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, snow isn't that powerful. The problem though is that he's floating down to earth. He doesn't know if any of the other crew members have also been able to get out of the plane like him. Also, as he's floating down, air around him is somewhere between 40 and 50 degrees below zero, but the wind chill makes it more than 100 degrees below zero. He's wearing his army issued flight suit, a down filled parka and canvas mukluks, and luckily he also has several pairs of socks on. What he doesn't have on are his heavy duty gloves because he had to just, you know, escape bailout. So the air stings his exposed hands and face as, as he's floating toward the earth. Somehow he avoids all the trees and rocks and everything that's super dangerous. And he lands without injury. But then he immediately sinks hip deep into snow. He's about two miles from where the plane crashed. He has no idea if any of his crewmates are alive or dead. He just starts shouting anyway, just in case someone could hear him. But he is met with silence. Lieutenant Leon Crane is now faced with the fact that he'll have to figure all of this out on his own, which would be a huge problem for anybody, but especially Lieutenant Crane, who sources describe as, quote, a city boy from Philadelphia. Oh shit. So it's not like he's got some survivalist experience or anything. And despite being stationed in Alaska for the last two months, he hasn't gotten any Practical survival training for this cold, rugged environment. The good news is there's some things that are just plain common sense. He knows the temperature is going to plummet once the sun goes down, somewhere between 2 and 3, 3 o'. Clock. And that means he has just a couple of hours before he's at risk of freezing to death. And if by some miracle he does survive the night, he knows whatever food, water or supplies the bomber had on board have gone up in flames. So that can't help him. Like if he just hikes to the wreckage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He also knows that the last time he and his crew gave their location via radio contact was around 11:08am when they were about 65 miles out from Ladd Field. But. But they continued traveling for nearly an hour after that without checking in. So he realizes to the army, he and his crewmates could be anywhere. So Lieutenant Crane starts with what he's got in front of him. He wraps himself up in his parachute for warmth. And he looks at the tools that he actually brought. Two matchboxes with about 40 matches between the two. A Boy Scout knife that he carries with him everywhere and. And a letter from his father back in Pennsylvania. Then he scans the area around him, identifying a small frozen over river. And he heads toward that. Always go toward the water.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Right, yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then you can follow it down because it's always going down to meet bigger water.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right where people build homes because it's near the water and we need water to survive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. You are very smart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I made that all up. What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Leon can't know this at the time, but he is at the headwaters of the Charlie river and that empties out into the Yukon. He starts collecting driftwood from the riverbanks, which he then cuts down with his pocket knife and arranges into a little cone to start a fire for warmth. But his hands are so ice cold as he does this, they've gone completely numb. So he struggles to get the fire started and he ends up having to use the letter from his father as kindling. But he does get a small fire going, so he warms himself up as much as he can. He's obviously exhausted and he can't help but start wondering if he might die out there all alone. Fortunately, he does wake up the next morning bundled in his parachute, still very cold, increasingly hungry and unsure of what comes next. But he is alive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you carry a knife? I carry a knife.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you carry a knife? I always make sure there's something sharp in my purse, that something Kind of like could cut through something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I don't. I so easily forget. Forget things of like I'm not gonna. I'll walk through a security like deeper with a knife. Easily.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. So I had to replace my pepper spray so many times because I don't take it out at the airport.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. I'm not like savvy. Savvy, smart, Aware enough. You know what I mean?

[Georgia Hardstark]

There you go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm still putting my phone down when I start looking at sweaters and walking away. I just can't. So me and knives aren't. You know. I'll have you carry the knife. Okay. So he wakes up. It's day two in the Alaskan wilderness. And Lieutenant Crane is still holding out hope that rescuers will find the crash site and then be able to save him. He focuses on that short term survival. So he keeps his driftwood fire going as he makes an impromptu campsite. And he stays hydrated by eating snow. This is actually something experts say can be risky to do because it burns a lot of your energy. Cause it's cold. And so then you have to heat it up. Your body expends too much energy to heat it up. Interesting. It also risks cooling your body to the point of hypothermia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Oh, man. I was like snow. You have unlimited water.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nope. Careful. Also ice cream headaches. But it does work for Lt. Crane in this situation. He waits for the sounds of a rescue plane all day long. Then the next day. And the next day, after nine days pass, he is forced to. No one is coming for him. So on top of that, he hasn't had anything substantial to eat in that long. But the problem is he can see squirrels running in the trees above his campsite. So the hungrier he gets, the more desperately he tries to basically hunt these squirrels. But he doesn't have any real weapons to help him. And he tries to make them, but he has very limited materials. So he. He attempts making like rudimentary clubs and a slingshot. And he tries to fashion a sort of spear. None of it works. The squirrels always get away. Lt. Crane's morale is sinking. And fearing he might starve to death, he decides his best bet will be to follow the frozen river, hoping it just leads him to people. Like, he can't just stay at this campsite. But following the river turns out to be a treacherous hike through ice and snow along sometimes very steep, rocky inclined inclines. The Anchorage Daily News reports that it takes Lieutenant Crane several hours just to travel a few hundred feet. So he's in some serious, like, wilderness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You have a picture of, like, what it looks like?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Can we put up a picture of maybe the crash site? But that's it. The crash site is too clear.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, but it's. He's on snow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Well, he bailed out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, I think what it would be, like, two miles away from here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's where. Where the crash site. Like, they probably went back to take that picture, Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, of course he's getting exhausted, but he is able to find breaks in the ice, and he's able to drink river water, which is good. He still isn't eating that much, though, aside from a few plants here and there. And then at night, he follows the same routine. He lights a small fire, he warms himself, he wraps himself up in his parachute. But the hungrier he gets, of course, the more he's dreaming of food. He has vivid dreams about steaks and potatoes and frothy milkshakes. Same every day. So this goes on for another week for Lieutenant Crane. And at this point, he's been out in the wilderness for over two weeks. He is nearly just depleted, but he keeps on. He gets up to hike one more time. And one day, as he's trudging along the way, something amazing happens. He looks up to see a small log cabin in the distance. As he gets closer, he discovered this cabin is not only unlocked, it is fully stocked with food and supplies. And this is not a mirage. It's actually customary in the frontier as a sort of pay it forward practice by hunters and trappers who know how lethal getting lost in the Alaskan wilderness can be. So they leave their stuff open, and they leave it fully stocked for anyone who might need it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's kind of beautiful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's like that. In certain towns where polar bears are always around, people leave their car doors unlocked. Just so if you're, like, walking along polar bear, you can jump in someone's car.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It has to be Alaska, Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, makes sense. Leon finds a name on some of the items around the property, and that name is Phil Burail. And he figures it's the cabin's owner. And he is like, I'll never forget this person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause this cabin is a literal lifesaver. Lieutenant Crane finds clothes. He also, crucially, finds a pair of mittens among the supplies. There's also shelf stable food. There's a gun for hunting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's all sorts of tools. There's a stove. There's A supply of ready to use firewood. Like he doesn't even have to go chop firewood.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like he leveled up in a video game.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. You know, he earned this cabin. Yeah. Yeah. He even finds himself some hot cocoa. Oh, yeah. So he warms up, he feeds himself. He stays the night in Phil Boreilski cabin, desperately hoping that means that some other person, maybe Phil himself, if not a. An entire homestead is nearby. But this is the part of the movie where if the camera pulled up and out of the roof and then expanded out, you would be able to see high in the air that Lieutenant Crane is 100 miles away from the nearest settlement.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He doesn't know that, though. What Lieutenant Crane knows is that he's fed and rested. And that the next morning, with Mittens finally covering his frostbitten hands and pockets filled with raisins that he's found at the cabin, he sets out on his course along the Charlie River. He spends the entire day hiking that same punishing terrain, hoping that he is gonna find, you know, a cabin a mile away, two miles away. He doesn't find anything. So then he has to turn back and hike all the way back to the cabin. When he gets there, he's exhausted and defeated, and he collect lapses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pocket full of raisins.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With raisins. Gross.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Those don't keep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But back then it was like the 40s, people were like, this is nature's candy delicacy. I love this. So Lieutenant Crane spends the next six weeks venturing out of this cabin a couple miles at a time, hoping to find something other than vast snowy expanses. It never happens. And he doesn't know what else do to. What would you do?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stay there. Just keep staying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just live.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Ration stay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hope that someone comes back at some point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think what I would do is light the forest around me on fire and be like. Try to find some liquor and be like, if they don't see this smoke, I don't know what. I don't know how to help these people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My stomach is growling now because I think I'm so in it with you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, that happened. I was working on this this morning, but I was sitting outside and of course, of course everyone's going to hate me and you when I say this. It was freezing. It was like 53 degrees this morning in LA. So I was typing and I realized. I thought I was really into the story, but I was like, no, my hands are cold. I'm not used to any temperature fluctuation. Whatsoever. Okay, so your plan is what his plan was. At first, Lieutenant Crane was just going to subsist on what was in Phil Barrel's cabin until warmer weather comes and basically thaws everything. But then he realizes that even if he really rations, barely eats every day, there isn't enough food to sustain him for that long. So he is forced to once again set out along the riverside. But this time, he has fashioned himself a very simple sled so that he can take as many of the supplies and tools with him as he can, which is great. So now he has a tent and a sleeping bag. So as bad as the situation is, it is definitely better than it was before. Yeah, he's gained strength. He's gained morale. He's gained some mittens. So he heads out once again. He walks for miles and miles. At one point, he stops to get cold water from the river, but he slips and he falls into the river. It's, of course, ice cold. Somehow, Lieutenant Crane manages to get back out, but now his clothes begin to freeze.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's so embarrassed. All those little animals that saw him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Lands, like, on the side of his face and shoulder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Grown man fought in the air, like, just. No one wants to see that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No grown man. Child. Doesn't matter. Falling is the ultimate humiliation. Alone or not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or walking into a movie theater, maybe worse.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Alone. Where then you're, like, kind of grunting and getting up, like you really left. No one comes and says, oh, no, are you okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

We can laugh together about how funny and clumsy that was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I remember every fall, it's just you and yourself beating yourself up for falling down. Okay, wait. Sorry. Cause this is supposed to be exciting, CB because he's going down the river, and he's like, maybe I'm making progress. He falls into the river. Immediately, he's in danger. Like, his life is immediately in danger. As he's trying to assess the situation and fix it. He has to do it as quickly as possible, but he's shivering so hard he can barely control his hands. And he also kind of can't think straight because his body is in shock. So he pushes through, and he is able to start a fire. Then he runs a rope above it. He strips off all of his icy clothes, hangs them across the room, and then he runs into his tent naked and, like, you know, wraps himself up, praying that the flames won't burn so high that they burn his clothing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But, like, basically, I have to dry out that clothing and then warm myself up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fortunately, his clothes do dry out. He does warm up, he puts his clothes back on. He gets into a sleeping bag and he just goes to sleep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he then just has to get up. The next day he's back at it, hiking along the. Occasionally he manages to catch a squirrel or a bird eating a bird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All those little bones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He covers a couple miles a day. He does this for two more weeks. one point, he has to abandon his sled. It's just too heavy and clunky and it's too hard. So whatever supplies or tools he can't carry, he has to leave behind. So just another devastating moment of like, is this. Am I just like breadcrumbing my life away here? Trying to get somewhere, which is kind of what life feels like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A lot of times we don't all get a sled. Some of us get sleds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You gotta make your own sled, right? And then you just gotta focus that there will be a cabin that's unlocked, right? There will be. You just gotta keep going.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's hot cocoa in the future.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And a pocket full of raisins.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We want people to keep going. You can put the raisins in the hot cocoa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Raisins mean whatever you want them to mean. Like, raisins are symbolic of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're right. Of positive things. Right? Even though they don't seem like it. So he doesn't know if doing this is the best plan for him. He just simply has no choice. And he continues. And then, once again, the unlikeliest miracle happens. Lt. Crane comes across another unlocked and fully stocked cabin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on. Swear to God, this is actually really like life, where, like, some people just get fucking come across cabins stocked and some of us don't. And you can't forget it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I'm gonna continue this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what it is? It's the people who keep trudging along, right? It's the people who take risks. And it's the people who dig down and go, like, I want to live and I want to make this. And so I'm just gonna. I'm gonna play the odds. I'm gonna do my best. I'm not gonna let my brain get me down. And I will believe that there are unlocked cabin filled with raisins to the brim, okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

But meanwhile, the motherfuckers who were born in the kitchen, cabin full of food, are saying that the people who weren't. I could just go on and on, I know, are lazy and taking their skiing jobs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, those people do exist. But let's focus on the people who leave the cabin unlocked, filled with supplies, okay? Because those people are. There's more. More people like that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's us. I think. That's us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's us. That's America right now. Those blamers and those cabin people, those original born in the cabin people. Let's not worry Guy so much. Not in this story, okay? This story is filled with raisins. Okay? So Lieutenant Crane lays down his pack and once again just sets out to recover. Just like he did the first time. He stays in this cabin for about a week. Now it's March 10th, and that means it's been 81 days since Lieutenant Crane parachuted out of the bomber on December 21st.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's back on the riverside, walking along, just trying to find someone. I mean, what a frustrating hike this would be to be. Like you're just going to hike until you try to find something or somewhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There must be something somewhere at some point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But you're in the Alaskan interior.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rough. He's walking along the riverside. He notices a neat trail of packed snow. And to him, it looks recent. And it looks like it could be tracks from a dog sled. So there's something to be excited about. He follows these tracks until they lead him to another cabin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this one is occupied. Leon approaches and a man steps outside to greet him. It's the first person Lieutenant Crane has spoken to in more than three months. And he tells the man, quote, I've been in a little trouble. Boy, am I glad to see you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. I bet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So this man explains that he is a trapper named Albert Ames, and he lives in this cabin with his family. So he actually lives out there. Crane apologizes for not being particularly coherent. He can barely talk to this man. Like, once he said, I'm in trouble. I'm glad to see you. It was like the man was. Albert Ames was trying to talk to him, and he just couldn't have a conversation. He hadn't seen people in 81 days.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Albert Ames shows him mercy. He takes Lieutenant Crane inside, offers him food, lets him spend the next few days recovering. And Crane will soon learn he has walked just about 100 miles in the last 81 days. Here's a map of what it like looks. Looks like. Whoa. Him crossing all those rivers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And there's really nowhere else he could have gone, right? Kind of. You know, it's like. I hate those stories where it's like if he had just gone the other way, 10ft.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He would have been in whatever it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Triangle of sadness, where it's like there's a sandals right on the other side of this mountain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But she went that way. Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Well, and also, if he had followed, say, a different river, something else he wouldn't have gotten to Albert Ames.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is you need people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. The fact that he came upon two cabins is just so unbelievable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kind of meant to be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ish. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is also when Lieutenant Crane sees himself in the mirror for the first time in months. And here's how he describes himself when he sees himself. He says, quote, I had a 2 inch beard, black as coal. My hair was long and matted, covering my ears and coming down over my forehead almost to my eyes, so that I looked like some strange species of prehistoric man. I was dirty and sunburned and windburned and my eyes stared back at me from the centers of two deep black circles.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

End quote. So as he's recovering, Lt. Crane tells Albert about Phil Barel's cabin and how it was this godson that he found and at his lowest point. And he's shocked to learn that Albert knows exactly who Phil Barel is because actually everyone in the area does. Phil's a regionally famous hardcore trapper who's described in the book 81 days below zero as having, quote, an almost scary tolerance for discomfort or pain. Nothing seemed to make him wince. Unquote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he's basically a local legend.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So three days later, when Lieutenant Crane is fully rested, Albert Ames loads him up on his dog sled and takes him on a two day trip to Woodchopper, Alaska.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So even on a dog sled to get back to civilization takes two days.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Two days.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is like, just shows you how far he went, you know, and how far he had left to go if he hadn't met anyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Alone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With no sled. With no dogs. Got dogs. And also I think that the thing. It's like there was so much snow because he's on a sled, but Albert Ames is in snowshoes, so they have to get through. It's like there's no, no paths. There's no. It's been snowing. Like it's the true wilderness. Why don't you understand?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like Griffith park on a rainy day. It's like, get me out of here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When there's a light breeze in Griffith Park. Okay. So they get to Woodchopper, Alaska. Best name of all time. This is an old gold mining settlement. That's a ghost town now, but there's an airstrip there, so Lieutenant Crane is able to contact his unit and have him come and pick him up there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, guys, it's me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I know you thought it was, but it's me. Woodchopper also happens to be where Phil Bareil lives. So they roll into town. Then Albert takes Lt. Crane to Phil's house and basically says, here's the man that saved your life. From a distance. The two men drink rum together while Lt. Crane tells Phil his story of survival over the past few months. And they bond over their shared toughness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause who could appreciate that story better than the man who doesn't win for sure? The next morning is March 14, and Lt. Leon Crane boards the airplane that takes him back to Ladd Field in Fairbanks, Alaska. All this time, he's been wearing his now tattered flight suit, so when he deplanes at Ladd Field, everyone is stunned. It's not like he got to wood chopper and was suddenly able to, like, get it all together. It's a ghost town.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Makeover.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So, no, he walks off the plane looking pretty bad. After taking a hot shower and getting a medical exam, Leon asks for a milkshake. It's reported that when Lt. Crane learns his four fellow crewmen have not yet been located, he immediately gets back onto yet another plane to help the army find that wreckage site.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it leads to the recovery of two crewmen's bodies. Sergeant Ralph Wentz and Lieutenant James Seibert. It's not until half century later, in 2006, when remains found not far from the wreckage are positively linked to Second Lieutenant Harold Hoskin. But to this day, Master Sergeant Richard Pompeo's remains have never been found.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So despite Lieutenant Crane's story becoming legendary, especially within the US Military, he actually goes on to live a very quiet life. He eventually returns to Philadelphia, he starts a family, he becomes an aeronautical engineer, and he is credited with working on some of the earliest versions of modern helicopters.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, yeah, he's a very Smart man in 2002. And also maybe that's part of why it was meant to be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which part?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That he basically found those cabins and took the right path because modern helicopters needed to be invented.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're not seeing the fate.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm following that trajectory with a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of doubt in your eyes. I'm trying to be deep. In 2002, Leon Crane passes away. He's in his early 80s, and he leaves behind six children, who then in the summer of 2005, three years later, decide they're going to revisit their father's journey along the Charlie River.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They go via plane and then raft for a week. They witness the world their father survived for 81 days, including the ruins of Phil Burail's cabin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They take it all in. They even find some of the tools their father left near Phil's cabin that he had described to them when he told the stories. Leon Crane never sought fame or seemed to want much attention. So we don't really have many firsthand quotes from him on this incredible survival saga. But he did agree to a recorded interview on the 90s where he makes his feelings very well known in that he says, quote, God awful place, Alaska. Ice and snow and cold as hell. And that is the story of Lieutenant Leon Crane's incredible survival in the Alaskan wilderness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. You did it. He did it, right? But that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But we did it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ultimately, this is our victory.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're going to claim it as our own.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're in the car.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We are in the car.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you know what that means?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That means new honking Hoorays.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Presented by Hyundai.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You wanna go first?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure. This email was sent to us. It says, hey, ladies, excited to share my hooray with you. This year I turned 40 and I did something I've wanted to do for many years. I joined my local civic choir.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What is that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the town choir.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. I was in chorus all through high school, performed in musicals and was a member of the prestigious all female ensemble called, you know, we're an ensemble called the melodears. It's been 22 years since I graduated high school and I really missed being in a choir. Every Monday I'm excited to go to rehearsal and I've made some wonderful friends these past few months. It's been such a fulfilling addition to my life, and I'm so glad I overcame the fear of thinking I was too old or it was too late or people would laugh. You're never too old. It's never too late. And don't listen to anyone who laughs at something that brings you joy. Ssdgm Alana pronounced Elena. My parents couldn't. I couldn't be bothered to add an extra vowel. I don't know if I messed that up, but I love that one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love the idea of doing something you loved as an adolescent and, like, you're allowed to do it as an adult.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also there's a bunch of other adults that want to go back and like, recapture Some of that swing choir glory that you had long ago.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna join a soccer team. Okay. I love that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mine, I'm start drinking by a rock again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Start going into fields with random condoms. That's right. Okay. This is from Mike Kelly via Instagram. Next week, I'm starting a job as an emergency room social worker after leaving a toxic workplace as a therapist. Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Although I was sad to leave my colleagues and the clients I was working with, I'm so excited for a move to a new city and a job that is going to be so fulfilling. Hooray, Emergency room social worker.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How bad and toxic does your job have to be if you're like, you know what? I. I need to go for some peace and quiet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The emr.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The emergency room. Thank you. I'll handle people's problems at the emergency room.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's much more calm here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just my Zen place. Well, congratulations for making that move parallel. Here's this next one. It says email titled Hooray. Hooray. It's fun to type. Hi, MFM fam. Gosh, I just love y' all so much. My hooray is. After literal years of searching, I finally landed the perfect job. I work for a small local mom and pop bakery. She's not working for a small local mom, which is how I read local mom. Just this little tiny mother. I work for a small local mom and pop bakery where I get to make sourdough bread, cookies, and cinnamon rolls on the daily. I finally get to do what I love and get paid for it. Stay sexy and eat local carbs. DJ she her. I love that. Right? That's on par with joining choir.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just all the stuff that makes you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Feel good, brings you joy like the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

ER and brings me joy like the er. It's like social work in the er.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks, you guys, for tuning in to Honking Hoorays.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And thank you, Hyundai, for making all of this possible. Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillacci.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And follow the show on Instagram at. My favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to My favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now you can watch My favorite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Murder on Netflix and when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye. This episode is brought to you in part by Vital Farms.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you noticed that the egg section at the grocery store has gotten very complicated lately?

[Georgia Hardstark]

But Vital Farms makes it simple. Pasture raised eggs traceable to the farm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Their hens have outdoor access year round with fresh air and sunshine, and forage on rotated pastures with local grasses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Every carton can be traced back to the farm it came from, so you can see the pasture where the hens live by visiting vitalfarms.com pharm look for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The black carton in the egg aisle and visit vitalpharms.com to learn more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Vital Farms Good eggs, no shortcuts. Goodbye.

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[Narrator/Guest Voice]

Aldous Hodge returns as Alex Cross, your favorite detective on television, for season two of the hit show Cross, now streaming exclusively on Prime Video. Critics called season one one of the year's best shows, with over 40 million viewers worldwide. And now the story continues with a new season from creator Ben Watkins and based upon characters created by James Patterson. Cross is Washington, D.C. 's most brilliant homicide detective and forensic psychologist. Fresh off his capture of the infamous serial killer, the fanboy, Cross teams up with the FBI to hunt down a vigilante serial killer targeting corrupt billionaires. As the case unfolds, Cross navigates a moral cross crossroads where the lines between justice and vengeance are blurred. Cross is back and better than ever this season. Get ready for a new case. Higher stakes, but the same Cross Watch Season two of Cross, now streaming only on Prime Video.