524 - Get Your Blade Hands Ready

Summary

My Favorite Murder – Episode 524: "Get Your Blade Hands Ready"

Date: March 19, 2026
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Karen and Georgia bring their characteristic blend of true crime storytelling and comedy to two compelling stories: the 2012 Costa Concordia cruise ship disaster and the inspiring life of Madam C.J. Walker, the first self-made Black female millionaire. Across both tales, the hosts riff on cultural topics, everyday anxieties, and the themes of hubris, survival, ingenuity, and empowerment. As always, the show is honest, irreverent, and empathetic—making disaster and triumph equally engaging.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lighthearted Banter & Teeth Talk (03:27–09:01)

• The show opens with Karen and Georgia riffing about dental woes, switching dentists, and the social anxiety akin to leaving a hairstylist. The age-old question arises: "Are teeth the bangs of the mouth?"
• Quotes:
  • Georgia (04:47): “He's showing me photos of my f***ing teeth and there's like holes and cracks in them. Like cracks in my teeth.”
  • Karen (07:23): “Are teeth the bangs of the mouth?”
• Karen jokes about launching a ketamine-focused podcast, while Georgia details her own (therapeutic) experimentation.

2. Network Updates & Merch Highlights (09:14–12:11)

• The hosts plug noteworthy episodes from other Exactly Right Network podcasts and discuss women’s history-themed merchandise.
• Memorable moment: Karen pitches the idea for mugs allowing you to info-dump at work about strong historical women (“It's interesting you should ask…”).

3. Themes of Emotional Health (13:02–15:03)

• Georgia discusses struggles with crying and how tears relieve cortisol, to which Karen (with affectionate exasperation) notes she’s mentioned this on the show before.
• Quote:
  • Karen (13:31): “Did you know that tears contain the hormone cortisol?”
  • Georgia (13:37): "Oh, I wasn’t listening for the last 10 years. Sorry. Oh, sh*t. Sorry.”

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Main Story #1: The Costa Concordia Disaster

Setting the Scene (18:44–20:17)

• Georgia introduces the 2012 Costa Concordia cruise ship disaster off the Italian coast, noting it’s a story “full of Karen bells and buzzers.”
• Quotes:
  • Georgia (19:10): “We’re on a luxurious cruise ship with about 4,200 people on board. And what’s about to happen is going to be one of the worst maritime disasters in recent history…”

Background & Ship Details (21:10–27:49)

• The Costa Concordia was a massive ship (17 stories high, capacity of over 4,000), considered a crown jewel of Italian maritime engineering and labeled (unwisely) as "unsinkable."
• The hosts riff about cruise ship culture, the perils of calling a ship "unsinkable," and Karen’s parents' personal cruise ship history.
• Quote:
  • Karen (23:35): “They gotta stop f***ing calling things unsinkable!”

The Disaster Unfolds (29:05–43:15)

• Captain Francesco Schettino, known for showmanship, decides to do a “sail-by salute” of the island Giglio—dangerously close to shore.
• He's distracted by dinner with a young woman (not his wife), and misjudges the course.
• Quote:
  • Georgia (34:30): “He’s going about 15 knots, which would be considered very fast for navigating so close to shore…”
  • Karen (41:02): “We know men, there’s really nothing like the feeling of making a dumb mistake—even over a bad mistake.”
• The ship strikes an uncharted rock at 9:42pm (39:01), suffers catastrophic hull damage, and rapidly starts listing.

The Aftermath: Chaos and Evacuation (43:40–61:45)

• The captain downplays the severity, delaying critical evacuation orders—meaning lifeboat launches become fraught and chaotic. Some passengers jump overboard to swim to safety.
• Survivors describe holding onto floating debris to stay alive in freezing water (51°F).
• Italian Coast Guard official Gregorio DeFalco famously orders capt. Schettino, now in a lifeboat, to return to the ship ("Vada a bordo, cazzo!").
  • Georgia (52:11): “DeFalco just tears Schettino apart…he says he tripped and fell onto the lifeboat and that’s why he’s on it. But there’s, like, clear video of him getting onto it. It’s not pretty.”
• Local heroes: The hotel director Manrico Giampietroni stays behind, helping evacuate trapped passengers and ultimately gets trapped himself, surviving the night until rescue divers find him (59:44).
• Rescue and casualties: 32 people die, including a five-year-old girl. Many tragic and heroic personal stories.

Aftermath & Accountability (61:45–64:41)

• Public outrage targets Captain Schettino, who is tried and sentenced to 16 years for manslaughter, shipwreck, and abandoning ship—the only person to serve prison time.
• The ship is eventually salvaged at twice its original cost.
• Larger themes: corporate accountability, the dangers of hubris, and the real-time impact of poor crisis management.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Georgia (53:33): “He made a mistake and then you f***ing double down.”
• Karen (54:08) [Describing Schettino’s denial]: "'Those cliffs weren't there. They were not on the maps.'"
• Karen (56:04): “There are people on board that work there and don’t work there that are being heroes.”
• Georgia (58:49): “They find one couple still in their cabin. They had slept through the initial crash and then become trapped. Which sounds like me and Vince, for sure.”

Timestamps

• Story introduction: 18:44
• Collision: 34:30–35:06
• Coast Guard intervention: 40:01–41:02, 51:08–52:11
• Evacuation & rescue: 46:06–56:32
• Aftermath & trial: 61:45–64:41

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Main Story #2: Madam C.J. Walker: Black Millionaire Trailblazer

Introduction & Early Life (69:20–75:36)

• Karen recounts the life of Sarah Breedlove (later Madam C.J. Walker), born in 1867 to formerly enslaved parents. Orphaned young, she works as a laundress in St. Louis and raises her daughter alone amid poverty.
• Quote:
  • Karen (74:27): “You can’t be casual and you can’t be comfortable. You have to be proving yourself all the time.”

Inventing a Hair Care Empire (77:05–82:33)

• Struggling with hair loss, Sarah experiments with haircare products, eventually creating her own formulas after working for pioneering Black entreprenuer Annie Malone.
• She dreams her hair-growth formula came to her divinely.
  • Karen (78:54): “God answered my prayer, for one night I had a dream…A big Black man appeared to me and told me what to mix up…”
• She adopts the sophisticated, defiant professional name Madam C.J. Walker and launches her own business, selling door to door.

Growing the Business & Social Impact (82:33–88:38)

• Walker invents not just products, but a whole training and sales system (with “hair culturalists”), building a national network of Black female entrepreneurs.
• Faces dismissal from male Black business leaders—famously calls out Booker T. Washington for sidelining her at a major business conference.
  • Karen/Walker (86:57): “I promoted myself into the business…My object in life is not simply to make money for myself…but to use a part of what I make in trying to help others.”

Legacy, Philanthropy & Representation (88:38–93:31)

• By age 49, Walker employs over 40,000 salespeople and hosts the first national businesswomen’s convention in the U.S. Her enormous wealth funds Black schools, community centers, and the NAACP.
• She builds a mansion in a wealthy NY enclave to stand as proof of Black women’s achievement.
• On her death at 51, a major portion of her estate is left to charity. Her daughter and great-great-granddaughter continue her legacy, highlight her empowerment and philanthropy.
• Quotes:
  • Karen (90:59): “She’s the original version of Representation Matters.”
  • Georgia (93:31): “When I look at her life, I think it’s fabulous that she became a millionaire…but the most lasting legacy is that she empowered people and…showed other people their ability to make a difference in their communities.”

Timestamps

• Story introduction: 69:20
• Product invention & business start: 77:05–81:08
• Business growth & social impact: 82:33–88:38
• Philanthropy & end of life: 91:26–93:35

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Honking Hoorays: Listener Accomplishments (95:11–99:29)

• Segment recorded while driving: Georgia reads listener success stories, from passing law school exams (and the bar during COVID), to surviving harrowing plane incidents, to a listener’s fiancé being mistaken for Colin Farrell in an English pub.
• Quote:
  • Karen (97:23): “Congrats! Amanda is a mom, a lawyer, a badass—and it’s all because of us! Do you understand?”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

1. On cruise ship disaster hubris:
   “They gotta stop f***ing calling things unsinkable!” —Karen (23:35)

2. On emotion, resilience, and taking action:
   "Get your blade hands ready. Totally. You know, I am a strong backstroke swimmer." —Georgia (49:27)

3. On Walker’s lasting impact:
   "She’s the original version of Representation Matters…Put your face on the can. Put your house next to the white tycoon. Stand up at the convention that won’t acknowledge you and tell them why they will and must acknowledge you." —Karen (90:59–91:14)

4. On survivor’s guilt and struggle:
   "He had given his wife his life jacket because she couldn't swim...he was like, 'you're good, keep going.'" —Georgia (50:10)

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Episode Structure (Key Timestamps)

• 00:00–03:17 | Ads and show start
• 03:27–09:01 | Warm banter, dentistry, and emotional openness
• 09:14–12:11 | Network & merch updates
• 13:02–15:03 | Emotional health and crying
• 18:44–64:41 | Costa Concordia Disaster Story (main segment)
• 69:20–93:35 | Madam C.J. Walker Story (main segment)
• 95:11–99:29 | Honking Hoorays – listener stories
• Ads, credits & outro follow

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Final Thoughts

"Get Your Blade Hands Ready" is classic MFM—darkly hilarious, deeply empathetic, and brimming with both cautionary tales & inspiration. Whether unpacking the compounding failures behind the Costa Concordia disaster, or celebrating the grit and vision of Madam C.J. Walker, Karen and Georgia keep the discussion authentic, accessible, and memorable.

“Stay sexy, and don’t get murdered!”

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to my favorite murder.

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That's Georgia Hardstar.

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That's Karen Kilgariff.

[A]

I can do puppetry.

[B]

Wait, what's happening? Suddenly we have a third host. It's Karen's hand in a puppet shape.

[A]

It's my hand that doesn't approve.

[B]

He does. Look, he. Suddenly it's he. Yeah, his name is Egbert and he looks a little disappointed and he's a

[A]

little bit disappointed in us.

[B]

Yeah, well, sorry, what does it mean that your own hand puppet is disappointed in you?

[A]

It's not good psychologically. Little Catholic, little Jewish, little.

[B]

Little woman. Being a woman.

[A]

Little woman.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How's it going? How do you feel right now?

[B]

Okay. My face is a little numb still. I had some like, some dental work.

[A]

What'd you get?

[B]

Well, I've been going to this adorable, like, family neighborhood dentist for years. I'm not gonna say what it is. And I love them and I go regularly. I'm really good at getting my teeth clean. And I'm a. And then I went to this place a couple months ago. Like a month ago. Went to this place a month ago by my house. It's like just closer and a little nicer. And he's like, you have so many fucking issues that this little mom and pop dental place have no technology and didn't know about. So you're so fucked.

[A]

No, I get a third opinion though. Why he's right.

[B]

Cause he's showing me photos of my fucking teeth and there's like holes and cracks in them. Like cracks in my teeth.

[A]

And then you go back and check it's actually, actually a florist and you've been going to a completely wrong place.

[B]

I've just been on acid.

[A]

Every time. I was like, that's so weird.

[B]

There's a ketamine dream. Georgia, you haven't been to the dentist in ten fucking years.

[A]

Ketamine dream. Like, you take ketamine, you're like, you know what I need to do? Go to the dentist.

[B]

And I go to the dentist. In my mind, I've been like, this. Ketamine doesn't work. But, like.

[A]

But I love this dentist and his wife and his daughter. Then you're suddenly like, why is there a family at this dentist office?

[B]

Right? Yeah. Why is there a child working on my teeth? I don't think I trust her. But whatever.

[A]

But whatever. If that's how you guys need to Gentle.

[B]

Just nothing's wrong with me. So I guess nothing's wr.

[A]

It's covered.

[B]

So I can get so proud of myself, you know?

[A]

I'm very sorry about this news, because you know that I know about dental issues. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But tough. No, it sucks. And it feels so old. I feel old. It makes me feel old. Like, suddenly, like, your teeth are just old now, and they're only gonna get older and fall out and fall out and crunchier and breakier and you grind your teeth. Like, it's only gonna get worse.

[A]

It's gonna get worse. And I think about that every time I bite my cheek while I'm eating like a animal.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which I do so often. Eat your own cheek.

[B]

Did we tell everyone on the recording podcast about my mom not having a tooth?

[A]

I don't think we can.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's a big Easter egg for the future.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Can we leave that in?

[A]

I think so.

[B]

Probably. Right?

[A]

They can't get us.

[B]

Come at us.

[A]

They can't get us from here.

[B]

Come at us. Big dental. Fucking don't give a shit. We'll say it. We'll say it all.

[A]

But you know what's hard about dentists? Remind me a lot of hair stylists where if you choose to leave for your own personal reasons and then you run into that person in real life, I ran into my old dentist, and I clearly really hurt his feelings by bailing on him. Cause it was a recommendation. My friend went there, thought he was great.

[B]

And you look amazing. Like, it's not like running into an ex and, like, having, like, glow up since you broke up with them.

[A]

Check out these gigantic teeth right here.

[B]

Chompers, bitch.

[A]

You couldn't do it.

[B]

Oh, my God. But you know what? You're right about that, too, in that sometimes the hairdresser that you've been to for years just fucks up one time. And then. So, like, you have to, like, your dentist can't do that.

[A]

That's. That's right.

[B]

It's not the same thing when your dentist does it.

[A]

You don't even get one with dentistry. You shouldn't.

[B]

You get a bad bang and then you go to someone else.

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Every hairstylist I've stopped going to is purely because they're too far away and I would end up being late enough that it's fucking their business up. And I'd be like, it's immoral for me to continue going to this place.

[B]

Question, thought, idea, ponder. Are teeth the bangs of the mouth? Teeth are the bangs. I'm gonna. No, I'm not gonna question. Teeth are the bangs of the mouth.

[A]

Teeth are the bangs of the mouth. If you have the money to adjust your teeth as much as you want to or.

[B]

Oh, right. Well, they can't.

[A]

Grow my front teeth out.

[B]

Grow your front teeth out? Yeah. Show your face. You're blocking your beautiful face with all those teeth.

[A]

You need to feature more of your cheeks using your big teeth.

[B]

Am I high on dental drugs?

[A]

And doesn't it work? Since this is podcasting, what if it's

[B]

all been ketamine this whole time?

[A]

And now, if you don't mind, I cross pitch you a new podcast, which is on Ketamine all the time. The new Georgia Hardstock.

[B]

Great. It's just me and a guest fucking, like, passed out on a cowboy in a K hole.

[A]

It's more of an animated show because you would just above your heads, show what you're k holing about.

[B]

That'd be great. Okay.

[A]

Have you ever been in a K hole?

[B]

I've taken therapeutic ketamine. I never took it at raves when I. Yes. So. Yes. I mean, so you have.

[A]

Yeah, well, you know the feeling of being away on ketamine.

[B]

Yeah. I don't think. I think a K hole is like a bad thing. Right. Like who you can't get out. I've been in it and been there and knew I was gonna get out.

[A]

And you got escorted out by a nice lady in a pantsuit. That's right. Nice.

[B]

Therapeutic. Kind of mean is. Yeah, hit me up, everyone. I'm fucking. I'm a big fan.

[A]

Don't hit her up. Leave her alone.

[B]

Well, just. You have to tune into my podcast. Everything is Ketamine to see what the

[A]

hit up is in reference to. I wouldn't know.

[B]

Okay, should we get to work?

[A]

This is our Ketamine. We have a podcast network and it's called. Exactly. Right.

[B]

And we're putting a Ketamine podcast up on it.

[A]

That's Right. Get ready.

[B]

We get to do whatever we fucking want.

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Get ready.

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Exactly. Right.

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Network.

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Here's some highlights this week on Brief Recess, Our newest always on hilarious, smart, interesting, cool podcast, Important, timely. Michael and Melissa cover the latest chaos from Pete Hegseth's Department of defense and the St. Patrick Day debauchery in New York.

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I wanna see that.

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Gotta see it. And Trump's attempt to remove immigration protections for 350,000 Haitians in the US this is an important podcast.

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I mean, here's the thing. It is two really compelling, fun people to listen to, talking about very important, timely things of today. And from the point of view of a paralegal, a immigration lawyer, people who know what they're talking about, who also

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happen to be like people you want to hang out with and get drinks with so bad.

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I got a text from Michael Foot this morning that said you do want to learn mahjong, right? Right.

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Yes.

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He's one of us. One of us. One of us.

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The best.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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And over on Trust Me, Lola and Megan are joined by Dan olson of the YouTube channel Folding Ideas. In part one of their conversation, Dan breaks down crypto. NFTs all the stuff you and why they often start to look like belief systems more than financial markets.

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So interesting how everything is a cult.

[A]

Yeah.

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And on that's Messed Up, Kara and Lisa revisit the episode Hot House and the disturbing real life murderer of Kristen Costas. Plus, they chat with this week's guest star, Aya Cash. She's from the Boys. And you'd're the worst.

[A]

God, I love the boys.

[B]

Oh, my God.

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That's like. If you like superheroes and you like soap operas and you like crazy shit, so good. Watch the boys. Okay. Over on Dear Movies I Love youe, Millie and Casey dive into Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi's controversial new version of the romance classic Wuthering Heights.

[B]

I'm not gonna see it ever. But I'm gonna read all about it. Cause I love when people get mad at things.

[A]

I mean, and people have such strong opinions about this one. I can't wait to see it. But I'm absolutely gonna see it from my home.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And in March corner, we're highlighting the Pearl heart mug and decal. It's designed by Mur Sammy Rich, and it's from an episode where Pearl famously said, I shall never submit to be tried under the law that neither I nor my sex had a voice in making. And we all loved that. So we fucking put it out there. So you can bring it to work and be passive aggressive to your boss. In honor of Women's History Month, we're highlighting the design. Grab [e-mail] Bing. Boom.

[A]

Here's you at the water cooler. I'm holding the mug up by my face, conspicuously drinking nothing out of it. Someone comes up and says, what are you doing? Oh, it's interesting you should ask me. This is Pearl Hart and you go right into your spiel.

[B]

Do it.

[A]

We should actually release mugs about everything we want people to know about. It's like, it's interesting you should ask.

[B]

Well, like, go fuck yourself mug is my favorite.

[A]

Finally. Stay tuned after this episode because there will be a brand new installation of Honking Hoorays featuring the real life driving of Ms. Georgia Hartson.

[B]

I remember what happened when we were in the car and I think I scared you a little a couple times.

[A]

You are a Los Angeles native, clearly. Yeah, that's what I learned from driving with you. And I'm from the part of California that's long open roads where nobody else drives.

[B]

You know what my thing is? If in the apocalypse, in the zombie apocalypse, you want to be in my car and the like, we got to get the fuck out of here. And everyone is running like, I can get us out of here.

[A]

You are Tank Girl. Yes, but it's just regular like 3 o' clock traffic and that's why people get so upset with you.

[B]

This is actually all an ad for beta blockers, which I take now before. Before I get in the car, before Vince drives me anywhere. You're 100% right. See, your body doesn't know the difference between 3 o' clock on a Tuesday and zombie apocalypse.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Your body's probably fine. My body doesn't know.

[A]

My body has no idea what's going on.

[B]

It's just going like this all the time.

[A]

Literally anything that happens. And I'm just like, can we talk about that for one second?

[B]

Do you know what my therapist said today? And then I will stop talking all the time. We'll see about that. My Innova's therapist said to me, I was talking about crying and how hard it is for me and shit. You just showed me your story.

[A]

I'm sorry, I didn't see it.

[B]

And she how I can't cry and it's really hard for me and I really actually want to. Did you know that tears contain the hormone cortisol? What?

[A]

Roll the tape.

[B]

You've said this?

[A]

Yeah, on this show. To you.

[B]

Oh, I wasn't Listening for the last 10 years. Sorry. Oh, shit. Sorry.

[A]

Listen, that's fine.

[B]

And that's why you're so tired and feel good afterwards.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I have so much cortisol in my body because I have the. I'm like that cartoon where they have the, like water up to their eyeballs. Yes.

[A]

And it's so interesting because most especially judge themselves for crying. And now you're judging yourself for not crying, right? Yes. It should be like. But you'd never judge yourself for not yawning or yawning.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And that is really the truth of it. Because every time you've seen me cry and we've all heard me cry on this podcast, I didn't know was coming. It's just that kind of thing. It's like, well, this has to get out right now.

[B]

I want that.

[A]

Yeah, you can have it. It's just like, you have to stop thinking about it and just let it happen. But the first time, you might wanna be at home for it. If more happens than just crying, that's what happened.

[B]

And Buns and I were both like, we should talk about this. Because it was like, what's happening?

[A]

It's hard doing good. If you weren't allowed to have feelings, then it's hard to have feelings.

[B]

Thank you. That's so true.

[A]

You're welcome.

[B]

What if, like, from now on, I just don't stop crying? Cause you, like, told me I could do. Gave me the permission. Sorry.

[A]

These are, they're perfect. I mean, these are the clothes. It is weird to sit across from you now in my career, in my adult career, and look at you wearing the clothes that I watch people wear in high school.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Your newest era of kind of mid-80s clothes, it's just like, oh, is it picture day? What did I forget? Like, that's what it brings up in me all the time.

[B]

I want to look like Justine Bateman became your like first grade teacher.

[A]

You know, it's getting there.

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Goodbye.

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Okay, this is a story I am surprised you haven't covered because it's got a lot of Karen, you know, in the pinball machine. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Yeah, got a lot of those for you.

[A]

Bells and buzzers and whistles.

[B]

It takes place in Italy.

[A]

Oh, oh.

[B]

It's a disaster story. Oh, yep. It takes place in Italy. It's a disaster story. There are amazing survivor.

[A]

Does it involve Mount Etna?

[B]

No.

[A]

Pompeii?

[B]

No. Oh, if I did. Pompeii.

[A]

We do. Pompeii is a crime. No, it's not funny.

[B]

We're getting here. It's never funny. It's Friday the 13th in January of 2012. So not Pompeii.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And we're just off the western coast of Italy. Oh God. So now I'm gonna have to say these names and places just north of Civitavecca. Civitavecca.

[A]

Hold on. We've got Liana Squillat right here.

[B]

G in the booth, so let's hear

[A]

the correct pronunciation if she has it.

[B]

Civodavecca. Civa de Vecca. Like I wouldn't have gotten that. Thank you. Liana lead in all of these.

[A]

How did you pronounce it?

[B]

Chivata. It could also be Svecchia vecchia. Okay, well I'm not gonna ever say it again. The busy cruise port that serves Rome. Oh, you know Rome. We're on a luxurious cruise ship with about 4,200 people on board. And what's about to happen is going to be one of the worst maritime disasters in recent history which led to the tragic death of 32 people. Tell em what you just did with your hands for the.

[A]

I was turning both hands to the side to somehow non verbally express to Georgia. Is this that one about the big cruise ship that bas.

[B]

That is right. This is the story of the ill fated final journey of the Costa Concordia. Wow. And the main sources for the story is a Vanity Fair article by Brian burrow and Josephine McKenna, which is really in depth. And then a two episode discovery special called Costa Concordia why she Sank. Vince and I watched it this week. It was one of those ones where like, sometimes I'm like, hey, I have to watch this documentary for the show. Do you want me to wait for you or not? And if it's like horrible Murder, he's like, why don't you go ahead? You go ahead. But this one, he was like, yeah, I watched that. So we watched it. It's good. It's not as complete as you'd want, but it's good. I'm surprised there isn't a new one that's a bigger story about it. Cause it's just I didn't know anything about. I didn't know people died.

[A]

I feel like I don't know anything about it either. Except for the final visual, which was this gigantic cruise ship, like in a bay, essentially, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's basically a fucking enormous luxury cruise ship. On its fucking side, where it's not supposed to be.

[A]

In the foreground, there's a lighthouse to give you perspective of how gigantic this ship is.

[B]

I read that it was like if you were next to a 17 story building, that's how tall it was.

[A]

That's what gets me nauseous.

[B]

How many stories? Yeah, okay.

[A]

Too big. Too big.

[B]

The rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. That's right. The Concordia belongs to the Italian cruise line Costa. So Costa Concordia, which is a subsidiary of. Of Carnival Cruises, whose headquarters are in Miami. We were like. It was like a lot of the succession in the beginning of the TV show succession, when there was like a whole cruise ship thing was like, oh, like someone high up owns this shit.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The Concordia has been in circulation since 2005, when its construction was completed in Genoa. And the ship cost 400 million to build, which in today's money.

[A]

600 million 629 million 582. 612 million.

[B]

612 million. 612,000,000. That's what I would do if I were ever on fucking Wheel. Or what's the one called Price is Right?

[A]

Oh, Price is Right.

[B]

I would say a weird, because I can't do numbers like. Yes, I'd say that in front of fucking.

[A]

I would just. My mouth would say whatever my brain served up.

[B]

612 million, 612 million, 666, basically. Oh, bad.

[A]

$666 million.

[B]

That's how much today it would cost inflation. Okay.

[A]

And of course, the devil. So it costs your soul that Went

[B]

away a long time ago.

[A]

Oh, the devil, my soul. You should have told me.

[B]

Okay. On its maiden voyage, the champagne bottle, speaking of superstitions and bad things that had been smashed against this hull had failed to break, which is considered a bad omen. But it's like. Like shut the fuck up. At the time. No, sorry.

[A]

Among boat people.

[B]

Right, exactly. Which. What are you gonna do? Like, oh, guess this one's out of commission. It's nothing. Yeah.

[A]

Turn the whole $666 million project in. Cause this bottle didn't break.

[B]

Exactly. I'm sure they haven't broken before. I think what did. Damn it. More than anything else. And they gotta stop doing this is. They called it unsinkable. You gotta stop fucking calling things unsinkable.

[A]

It doesn't work. This is not a manifest. Just do your best and do some. Do some cruises.

[B]

Yeah, that's great.

[A]

Where it's the humility, truly.

[B]

Because that's what they said about the fucking Titanic.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Shut up. Like you didn't learn your lesson. Okay. Why am I mad at these people? At the time, it's not the same company, Right? At the time, it had been Italy's largest cruise ship and one of the largest cruise ships, period, ever. In the years since, cruise ships have only gotten bigger and bigger, which is bananas.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In 2012, when our story takes place, the ship is only seven years old, and there are still just a few ships with significantly higher passenger capacities than the Concordia. Today, some of the largest cruise ships have passenger capacities of 7,600 people and carry around 10,000 people total, including the crew.

[A]

That's a small town.

[B]

That's a small town on this night. So it's nighttime. It's January. It's a little chilly. Most of the ship's passengers are just beginning their trip. They just boarded at Chitavika, czechatavia, Liana.

[A]

She's probably working.

[B]

Civetavecchia. Civetavecchia. They boarded a Civitavecchia. Most of them, they're starting their week long cruise around the Mediterranean. They stop at. Ali did this on purpose. They stop at Savonia, Marseille, Barcelona, Nice, Mallorca and Sardinia and Sicily.

[A]

Those ones were great.

[B]

They did that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's kind of like the send off and it's really exciting and they're just getting going that evening. Among the ship's passengers on this particular voyage are a large contingent, hairdressers.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like, how fun would that be?

[A]

Amazing Hairdressers.

[B]

They're most fun people. They know where to go, they know

[A]

what to order, they know how to do small talk like the best of them.

[B]

They have so much coke. No, this is weird. This is a hairdresser episode. So the reason there are a bunch of hairdressers. There are. They're competing on an Italian reality TV show which is shooting on the cruise. So there's just like a big amount

[A]

of throw to the clip. I want to see that show. I know.

[B]

Oh, no, it didn't go great.

[A]

Oh, okay, then.

[B]

There are lots of vacationers, of course, mostly European and particularly Italian, but there are also about 100Americans. The Concordia has 1500 cabins, six restaurants, 13 bars, four swimming pools, a casino and a disco. So think of the resort we just went to in the Bahamas. Baja Mar. But on a fucking 17 story ship. I'd do it in the middle of the ocean.

[A]

Hell yes. We could have been on a ship while we were there and not known it. Because it was just condensed. We never left. We were all walking around. Like the one day I went and I got to get a massage at the spa. Trying to find my way back was wild. But it all was like the same.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, this is so weird because I know this isn't that big, but I cannot find the front of this building anyway.

[B]

But then also, hey, you're in the middle of the fucking ocean. And that part I don't like.

[A]

No, no. And yeah, and that's. You learn about that by the ground becoming completely sideways, as we know.

[B]

Right, right. And your parents are big cruise heads.

[A]

My parents were the people in the late 50s, early 60s who were like, I don't have a career, I'm gonna go work on the ships. So my mom, so cool, got her nursing license and then went and worked on the ships. And my dad was a purser cause he was driving Chad Chicken delivery trucks. That's so cool.

[B]

Like that I would go on a. I would get a job on a cruise, right? Like in this documentary, they interview this woman who is a dancer in the like shows on the cruise. And it's like, what an amazing career. What an amazing time in your life. If you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, and you're just like, I just. It's like being a flight attendant almost, where you just like get to satisfy this need that you want to be places and to be around people. I mean, it's just, you can meet

[A]

all different kinds of people and. But here's the difference I would say for this is. My dad was a purser and then later on, he moonlit while he was a fireman and worked at the pursers union. So to think about the fact that when my dad and mom worked there, they were unionized jobs. And they, of course, are not anymore. And that's the real problem with a lot of people these days, where they're like, I work 49 hours in a row or whatever.

[B]

The centerpiece of the ship is a nine story atrium, you know, that looks like the Emerald City. Think. What's that hotel downtown, the Bonaventure. Bonaventure Hotel. That's got like indoor elevators that like look down on this atrium. It's like that, but it's fucking emerald green. Like it's the wizard of Oz. Oh, shit. I don't think I can show you.

[A]

Show me something green. What's that thing?

[B]

That's a green green. Here's something green.

[A]

Oh, an emergency sign.

[B]

Don't have it. That's okay, no problem.

[A]

No problem.

[B]

Stop asking me.

[A]

Okay, there's muster station.

[B]

That's great. Oh, happy family. What is that? Teenage daughter who doesn't want to be there. Middle child, son who's just like.

[A]

Who's actually really friendly and doing a lot of karaoke.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Youngest daughter who has not gotten out of the pool for five days straight.

[B]

Oh, my God. Great dream. Some people think it's a little tacky, though. But it's, you know, got that old Vegas kind of, you know. It's a cruise ship.

[A]

Yeah. No one's there to be chic in fashion week, right? It's not the idea. This isn't Viking cruises.

[B]

This isn't a Viking cruise river cruise. Hey. Viking river cruise.

[A]

Hey. Viking river cruise. I've always wanted to go to Egypt.

[B]

Can we please get on the river?

[A]

We would like to see the Nile.

[B]

Okay. At the helm of the Concordia is a captain named Francesco Schiatino. And if you remember this story at all, you know that he's going to make a lot of mistakes tonight.

[A]

Yeah, it's tough.

[B]

Schiatino is 51 years old, very tan. He unbuttons his thing, you know, he's

[A]

the rare pale Italian man who works on a boat.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Somehow he's been wearing 75 sunblock and he's just real pale.

[B]

He's very experienced, but he's known for being outgoing and exuberant and like, it's kind of. There's like a showmanship to being a captain that you have to for a ship this size. They come out the first night and everyone applauds you and they do a whole, you know, it's like a big deal to be the captain of this ship and almost. Yeah. I can show you a photo of him that we have to just. We can't. I can't show you on the screen, but you can look at it on our Instagram of what he looks like. And I just think it's important to tell you. Come on, like Richard Gere Italian style.

[A]

Here's the thing. I think that Italian men automatically unbutton to the third button.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if the shirt, if they try to keep it at the second button, it just pops off and it goes

[B]

straight to the shirt. They don't make them.

[A]

He's the captain of a ship and he looks like he just got up from a beach chair, his chest hair showing. What, did you need a drink or something? What's going on?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. There were quite a few, like, attractive. Oh. As played by George Clooney in this documentary.

[A]

It's just like, it's pretty wild, those people.

[B]

Okay, all right, stop it.

[A]

Get serious.

[B]

Okay. So he's a well regarded captain. Just north of Ciavecchia is a small channel between. Okay. So basically they're going out into this channel that sticks out from the Tuscan coast. It goes between the coast and an island called Isola di Gilio. So just basically called Giglio. Is that G I G L I O. It's a very small little island just off the coast and it's all male

[A]

sex workers that live there.

[B]

Gigolo. Yes. So there's a thing called a sail by salute where you'd fly by. Yeah. It's basically like to show off the boat to this small little community on the ocean. It's kind of a regular non sanctioned but done thing in the captaining business. Just to kind of give everyone a little what's up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it's unclear whose idea this originally is, but. But the captain, Francesco Schettino, decided he's gonna perform a sail by salute of the island of Giglio. It's kind of to show off the ships to the locals, you know, which I think they get a kick out of too. Maybe.

[A]

Maybe the first time.

[B]

Right. Like, shut up. They're, you know, oh my God.

[A]

They're like, we're an island, we see ships all the time.

[B]

Right. But this is the biggest fucking ship ever. So, like, it's kind of a big deal. And the lights are all lit. It's evening home built right. When the ship is approaching the island to do this little drive by WA Schettino isn't personally at the controls at the moment until the ship gets within about two miles of the island. So he had been having dinner near the bridge with a beautiful blonde woman who is not his wife.

[A]

Listen, sometimes junior captains are attractive women.

[B]

Okay? She's not his wife. She's not on the manifesto. Like, she's not even. Like, she's not supposed to be there. Bless her heart. She's a dancer. She's 26. He's 51.

[A]

Like, she's not a passenger and she's not an employee.

[B]

Yeah, it's his mistress that he brought on for this little part of the trip, it seems like. Yeah. So, like, most people think it has no bearing on the story at all. And she kind of got tarnished because of it, when really, it was just like. But also, he just went to dinner. He was probably drinking too, you should imagine, right?

[A]

Absolutely, I would think. And also, it's like Italy. I don't think anyone's surprised by having a mistress.

[B]

A mistress or drinks at dinner.

[A]

Yeah, let's not be.

[B]

Right. So I'm not gonna say her name because she hasn't. Okay, so.

[A]

And don't say his name because he's just a man. I just start defending him.

[B]

Francesco. Okay?

[A]

I love him. Okay.

[B]

A retired captain from the Costa Line whose name is Mario Palambo, lives on Giglio. And Schettino talks to him briefly on the phone while the ship is en route to perform this. Like, hey, we're gonna do it. And Schatino mentions his plan, and he wants to pass within less than a mile of the island. And this Costa line captain, Captain Palambo, he points out that it's winter. There won't be a lot of people to see the ship anyways. It's not tourist season. Like, why don't you. And it's rocky shoreline. It's not necessary. There's not much reward. How about you don't do that? Basically, he just said, say hi and stay away.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like he knew it was a bad idea.

[A]

Was it the dancer's home island? Like, this is where I'm from, and I'm gonna go buy a shop.

[B]

That would be cute. It's not. I think it was like, I don't understand. It's someone else's. It was not necessary at all in any way. At that moment when he's like, say hi and get away. The phone goes dead, and it sounds like Scatino was already about a half mile from the island because that was likely the moment that they saw the rocks. The problem Is that Scatino had consulted his radar and charts, but at this point, he's mostly navigating by sight. And there's a fucking rock near the island. Even I.

[A]

Even I, not an Italian, know that,

[B]

who only go on luxurious river cruises, know that he's going about 15 knots, which would be considered very fast for navigating so close to the shore. He sees an outcropping of rocks and orders a turn to avoid them and then misses a much closer large rock. Basically, there's a scramble and he yells at the wrong thing. And everyone who's driving don't get a clear message of what to do from the captain. Right. And the rock slams into the port left side of the ship. So by the time, like, they see it, it's too late and they slam into it.

[A]

Yeah, I was just gonna say if the ship is a half a mile away, but it's this gigantic thing in the water. It's like, then you're there immediately.

[B]

So it's 9:42pm when this happens. And this being Italy, means that many of the ship's passengers are at dinner at the. Because they eat dinner late, right? You know?

[A]

Yes, absolutely.

[B]

In the dining room, passengers feel a series of big thumps. And immediately after the ship is at a tilt, like, they all know something happened. There's no way to ignore it. Plates go flying and smashing to the ground.

[A]

So embarrassing. Remember when our table collapsed when we were in Hawaii and that we didn't even do anything and it was like, the most humiliating thing that happened to any the of.

[B]

Yeah. And it was only us. Oh, God, that was so amazing.

[A]

It was such a quiet buffet breakfast.

[B]

It was just like they had just set up extra tables because they knew, like, there was a lot of buffet brunch people. And ours was just like a fucking, like, conference room table. And someone kicked the thing that held everything together and it collapsed. Yeah, but Collapsed.

[A]

It kind of just went, no, it

[B]

was not Lizzie's fault.

[A]

I wasn't.

[B]

She kicked it, but it was not her fault that she kicked something and everything collapsed.

[A]

The tables couldn't handle everybody having more than one beverage, which to me is what it felt like.

[B]

Right. Plates go flying. The grand piano that's being played at the moment detaches from its safety tethers and rolls across the room all over the ship. People are seriously injured in falls. One musician, the piano player in the documentary says that he sees people bloodied and holding their own teeth in their hands.

[A]

So it happened quickly.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

Shit.

[B]

And so there's different levels of people getting hurt. And doesn't seem like anyone lost their life or anything yet. Yet.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Amelia Bland is a 21 year old British student and she's on board visiting her boyfriend who's one of the ship's engineers. But she has her own cabin. And at the moment they're in the cabin watching a movie when they hear this huge. And feel this huge hit. And it's so hard that the TV falls off the wall. So they got in the hallway and start climbing towards some of the higher desert when the ship loses power. So all the lights go out, big fucking crash and the lights go out, the emergency lights come on. And Claudio, Amelia's boyfriend, tells her to stay put in one of these main areas and he's gonna go see what's wrong. So the announcement starts playing saying the ship is experiencing an electrical problem. And it's really weird cause it's 2012, so only a few people have video of this. Like nowadays you'd get every fucking angle, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But 2012, there's like just a few clips that they play over and over again, which is, I think, so interesting. Yeah.

[A]

Cause only a couple people were kind of there and ready, right.

[B]

And like had that capability on their phones. They says there's an electrical problem, everyone should remain calm and everything will be fine shortly. Just don't freak out. At one point, another announcement encourages guests to return to their cabins. And then right around this time, Amelia's boyfriend Claudio returns and she says he looks ashen and tells her that several of the ship's watertight compartments have flooded. So it's not a fucking electrical problem.

[A]

No.

[B]

Meanwhile, the ship's hotel director, a 56 year old man named Marico John Padroni, is on the bridge. And you don't think about the fact that there's a captain on the ship, but there's also a hotel director. Because essentially you also need someone who knows how to run a hotel.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's confused as to why the captain hasn't declared a general emergency yet. He's like, let's get off this ship if we hit something immediately. But Captain Scatino, he does contact Costa's operations center and tells them that the ship has had two watertight compartments flooded, but the actual number is between three and five by now. The whole time he downplays and doesn't react fast enough. And really it seems like that's what causes loss of life, in my opinion.

[A]

That's tough. It's so embarrassing, right? He made a really embarrassing mistake.

[B]

Immediately, like, stupid mistake, stupid mistake.

[A]

Like, why did you even do it? And he's probably showing off. Maybe for the dancer, maybe just in general.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Maybe for whoever's on that island.

[B]

Totally. And I think the idea of, like, just deciding to evacuate all these people is a big decision that he doesn't wanna make until he's sure about it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So holds back and that life.

[A]

Yes. Well, he's probably thinking, if we could never get that close.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I want to make sure this doesn't go up into a big. It doesn't turn into a bigger thing.

[B]

Like, let's just see how bad it is before we start panicking. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

We've all been there.

[B]

Like, he won't admit to what happens for a very long time.

[A]

Same who. Who does admit anything. Who among us admits fucking shit.

[B]

Crash to shit. Good luck.

[A]

See, it's not that hard. I crashed a ship. It's not that hard.

[B]

So the ship can possibly stay afloat with two compartments flooded. You've seen this from Titanic where, like, the bottom thingies, but not with any more than that. And he does not call the coast guard. At least 20 minutes after impact, the coast guard first makes contact with the ship because a woman on the ship called her fucking mom from the ship and is like, we hit something, Please call the coast guard and tell us, like, what's going on? And so a police officer precinct elsewhere in Italy are the ones who take the call and tell them what happened. And they call the local police who contact the coast guard. So when the coast guard contacts cattino right around 10pm they're like, hey, we got this call. He says that the ship is experiencing a blackout and that's all that's going on right now. So another underplay, another chance to, hey,

[A]

it's no big deal.

[B]

It's a fucking blackout. Yeah. He didn't say that there's a crash or that the ship is taking on water. And the coast guard asks if Scatino needs assistance and he says no. And it's just unclear why he does that. Is it? Is it?

[A]

We know men, there's really nothing like the feeling of making a dumb mistake, even over a bad mistake. If it was overtly a bad mistake, it would just be like, start the emergency services now. But he himself is in a world where he thinks he can fix his dumb mistake.

[B]

Yeah, it's a dumb mistake that you're like, that's not me. I would never do something like that. And so I'm just gonna, like, pretend it's not Happening.

[A]

Cause you were saying he was considered a good captain. Good.

[B]

But like a little bit into the limelight of it all. So I think some people weren't surprised.

[A]

You get into cruise ships for the limelight, you know. Yeah, it's my family business.

[B]

A list cruise ships. Schatino likely realizes or acknowledges shortly after this conversation that he's going to have to evacuate the ship. And it's safer to do so on land rather than in open water. Because now the ship, it hit the fuck and rock and it's now veering out towards open water. So he's freaking out about that and he's like, okay. People don't know if he did it on purpose or not, but basically he's able to beach the ship onto a bunch of other rocks and hit those rocks and remain there. So he's on like basically right next to the island.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So he's closer. There's photos of like the ship that looks like on rocks and people are like, oh, that's a huge rock. How did you not see it? That's not the rock.

[A]

Okay. So, yeah, that was the rock that was preventing him from being pulled out to sea.

[B]

Right. Like it held them there.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

While this is going on, the passengers have just been left in the dark and literally and figuratively. And there have been no announcements about the reality of the situation. Although a lot of people clearly are freaking out getting life jackets. The Coast Guard gets in contact another time asking for an update. And this time the Concordia's crew admit that the ship is taking on water. The Coast Guard starts sending boats and helicopters in the direction of Giglio. But they estimate that Schatia unwillingness to admit the severity of the problem cost them about 45 minutes. It's only about 10:40, a full hour after the impact that Captain Scatino declares a general emergency. Most experts and even non experts who just know a thing or two about ships agree that this should have been done immediately after impact.

[A]

Yeah, but it just. Sorry. Cause I am an expert in Italian men. It makes me think of this driver. We had one time when me and Adrian and Janet were in Italy and he was driving us to Cinque Terre, which is like mountainous, like literally like this scary. And he was driving us in this kind of like a minivan while texting, and it was a stick shift.

[B]

He was loving scaring the shit out of you guys.

[A]

I bet we were. Cause we were sitting in our own individual rows in this thing and I was literally staring out the window like I've had a Beautiful life. I'm very grateful for everything I've gotten to do. And when we all got out, Adrian goes, I just made peace with the God. I know. And I was like, that's what I was doing. Because it was that fucking narrow and scary.

[B]

Yeah. So I. I thought he was hoping you guys would say something.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Like, please, sir. Where he's like, I got it. But I do think that is culturally. And that's such a generalization. Like, what do I know? That's one experience. But I do see that. Or I can see that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where it's just like, I got it handled is the thing that everybody, no matter the gender, wants to always be able to.

[B]

Yeah, men. Mostly men. That makes sense. Okay, so on the island of Giglio, a hotel manager who's also the island's deputy mayor, which is like, I fucking need to go there and live there immediately. For real. Named Mario Pellegrini, hears that there's a ship in trouble in the channel on the other side of the island. And so he's. He hops in his car and starts calling other members of the island's local council. They're like, something's going on. The ship that tried to wave at us is now, like, up on the rock. Up on us. Yeah. As he makes his way around the mountain in the middle of the island, and it's, you know, it's night, of course, he gets a clear view into the harbor and sees the massive fucking cruise ship, like, beached on rocks off the shore.

[A]

So big.

[B]

And he was like, that's not what I was expecting. I mean, the ship's, like, the size of the island, essentially. Yeah.

[A]

Remember when I talked about the Titanic, I think, and I said that there were 500 life rafts instead of 50 or whatever. It was just some typo.

[B]

Well, the life rafts will come into play as well. So put those in your mind.

[A]

Don't let it go.

[B]

Here we go. Moving on. And then the other thing that happened is when they run aground purposely, supposedly on those rocks, they drop the anchors so they'll stay there. And the crew improperly dropped the anchors, letting out way too much chain. And that's why it started to list to one side, because they just cut open the side. And so it did that. So I think that it seems to me totally unprofessional that, like, the crew didn't know what the fuck was going on either, because the captain wasn't telling them what to do and what was happening, and everyone kind of panicked and made mistakes.

[A]

We must communicate.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's just. That's all there is to it.

[B]

Right. Trickle down stupidity. Like, that's just the thing. So had they created the right amount of tension, they likely would have been able to keep the boat more upright. And the boat turning on its side is really where the problems arise. And so what happens is that the starboard side of the ship starts tilting down at a severe angle. And very quickly, the lowest level of the lifeboats are submerged into the water, rendering them unusable. And at the same time, all of the lifeboats on the port side of the ship, the side that's up in the air, are also extremely difficult to launch into the water because. So the ship's on its side now. The boats are here. Normally the boats would come, the lifeboats would come out and down, but if they're on its side, there's no coming out. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so people are fighting each other to get on these lifeboats. I mean, just you see humanity and it's ugly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People are pushing and shoving to get each other out of the way, trying to get on the few lifeboats that are launching. And the crew members who are launching the lifeboats seem to be doing so without any guidance from the chain of command. People are just kind of doing their own thing.

[A]

Free for all.

[B]

Yeah. Also because this had been the first night of the voyage, the passengers had not yet had their mandatory safety training. Because I guess the next day they're like, everyone has to sit down and fucking watch this video. It's like when you're on a plane and they do the video and nobody pays attention to it. Right, Right. So they hadn't done that yet.

[A]

And there's a reason they do it first.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I thought you were gonna say no one had sat down and eaten dinner.

[B]

And I was just like, that's so everyone was hungry.

[A]

Everyone's in a bad mood.

[B]

They're hangry. So it's mayhem. This is actually the, like, order better stage of the evacuation because the Concordia is so close to the port that the lifeboats are able to shuttle people back and forth like it is very close. People start jumping into the water and swimming to the island.

[A]

Do they make it?

[B]

A lot of people make it. A lot of. It's like there was the story of like a 70 something year old woman who used to be a swimmer who made it. And it made me go like, you gotta get your ass in fucking shape. Like if I jumped out of a fucking out of this right now and Swam. Would I make it? I don't think so. Honestly, like, and I'm. I feel young. Yes, I should be able to make it. So that's my. This kind of has like invigorated me to be like, take care of yourself

[A]

to be an ocean swimmer. I would love it if you start driving two hours every day so you can go swim under the Santa Monica pier.

[B]

Yeah, that's my thing. I have like the gear and everything.

[A]

Punching sharks.

[B]

Oh, it's just asbestos in the water. Yeah, yeah. So people are making it. And also they have life jackets too, which is very helpful. But even still, the water. Water is. It's January, the water's fucking freezing. It's like a 40 minutes tops that you have available in the water before hypothermia sets in. So it's not a great option. And if you're jumping from one of the higher levels, remember, 17 stories high, like, you can't.

[A]

That thing was huge.

[B]

Right. You can't jump off and swim unless you're close to the water and close to the island and good swimmer and all these things.

[A]

And the idea that people are just making independent decisions for themselves is a real sign of the chaos. A 70 year old lady went over and was like, you know what, Fuck this.

[B]

Like, most people will be like, I'm gonna wait and see what the captain says because they're obviously gonna tell us what to do. And I don't wanna be dramatic and jump into the water. And women never wanna be dramatic and overreact.

[A]

But like, it's just like, get your blade hands ready.

[B]

Totally. You know, I am a strong backstroke swimmer.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So that.

[A]

Just get, just jump in backwards, you'll be fine.

[B]

Crab walk out of there. So the water's about 51 degrees Fahrenheit. And so hypothermia. That's how some of the people. And in fact the rescuers do pull an unconscious French man in his 60s from the water. And he becomes the first recorded person to be killed in the Costa Concordia disaster when they pull him out of the water.

[A]

That's really horrible because the idea of this, where especially the way it looked on the news was just like, oh, it looked like someone just made a dumb mistake and like, wah, wah. It looked like the boat got a flat tire.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

The idea that people died because of that, that mistake is horrible.

[B]

And he had given his wife his life jacket because she couldn't swim. And so she made it and he was like. She was like, are you with me? And he's like, you're good. Keep going. And then I know, like, the stories of the fucking people who die are just, like, heartbreaking. Obviously. Okay, so the Coast Guard supervisor in charge of the rescue operation is a man named Gregorio DeFalco, and he is fucking hot. He's George Cliff Italian. George Clooney. Is George Clooney Italian? He lived in Italy.

[A]

I want to argue. George Clooney's Irish.

[B]

Okay, you can have him.

[A]

Maybe he's half.

[B]

Half. You can have him.

[A]

You can have him.

[B]

Okay, so this guy, Gregorio DeFalco, can't get in touch with anyone on the ship's bridge during an emergency. This is where you would expect to find the captain. And if you remember the Titanic.

[A]

I do.

[B]

That's where the captain stays until the very end. You go down with your ship, right? Like, I don't even know anything about ships, brag. And I know you stay on as the captain. As the captain to the end.

[A]

You're there till the bitter end.

[B]

But DeFalco is only getting radio silence. So finally, at about 12:40am he gets a hold of Schettino by calling the captain's cell phone. So he's down on the bridge. He finally calls the cell phone. And this guy is a Coast Guard supervisor. So, like, you gotta be badass. Like, you gotta be. It's like being in the. What's that word?

[A]

Navy seals.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like you must be.

[A]

Yes, it's Navyish, but there's something about the Coast Guard that' We're the guys that go in when the emergency kicks off.

[B]

Right. We're not going into war. We're going in to fucking help people. Yes, right.

[A]

A war against bad swimming.

[B]

Right. And we're Italian. A war against bad swimming. And DeFalco is absolutely stunned when he gets ahold of Scatino that he is on a lifeboat already.

[A]

Oh, that's right. This guy got ripped apart.

[B]

He did. We'll get into it, okay? Their conversation, which is recorded, becomes infamous. And I was like, we should play it and hear the whole thing. I'm like, it's in Italian. I forgot it's in Italian.

[A]

What a dream.

[B]

So basically, d'velco just tears Schettino apart. And Schettino is just like, oh. But, you know, like, making excuses. He says he tripped and fell onto the lifeboat and that's why he's on it. But there's, like, clear video of him getting onto it. It's not pretty. It's a real. He did himself no favors. Like, he made a big fucking mistake. And he could have not righted it, but, like, owned it and taken care of business and done what was right. It sounds like it was a big shameful event for Italians who are like, that's not what we do. This isn't who we are. Right. And so they wanted to punish him for that.

[A]

I mean, it makes a lot of sense. I. As the cultural attache to Italy for America, they are very. Things are done a certain way. They're very traditional. They're very. You do not have cappuccino afternoon no matter what. Like, there are rules and regulations to just being part of that kind of, like, casual culture, in my opinion. That's all opinion. But so that makes perfect sense that they're like, you have shamed this great nation totally.

[B]

Like, you made a mistake and then you fucking double down. Yeah, you can hear it. And they'll do closed captioning for it. And, like, can understand, but he's just basically, like, says, fuck, what the fuck are you doing at him? And, like, he's just like, what doing? You are, you know, the sky. DeFalco is very aware of, like, how

[A]

bad this is, and he's not on the ship. All that on top of, he's gone.

[B]

Right. So shortly after this conversation, he doesn't get off the ship like DeFalco orders him to do, because shortly after the call, he's seen on land in Agilio harbor among the thousands of stranded passengers who have escaped the ship. So people are flooding off and they see the captain on land when. When there's like, hundreds of people still on the ship. The town's chief of police goes to speak with him, and all Scatina will say is, quote, those cliffs weren't there. They were not on the maps, end quote. He's immediately blaming. Yeah, the cliffs.

[A]

That sounds boozy to me.

[B]

Yeah. And so the police chief says, quote, I saw someone who still hadn't realized what happened, someone who most likely didn't want to accept the reality of things. End quote.

[A]

Full denial.

[B]

Yeah. By this point around 1am every working lifeboat has been launched, and some are circling back and getting more, but around 1,000 people are still, which is now essentially lying on its starboard side. So if you're still trapped in the ship, which many people are, the walls are now the floor and ceiling, and you know what I mean? And the floors are now the walls. And any long hallway is now like a well, because everything is fucking.

[A]

It's one big Lionel Richie video in the worst way possible.

[B]

The people left on the ship are congregated in several different areas. Cause they still don't know what to do. No one has told them, go to this place to get rescued still. Right? Cause the guy's gone. He's supposed to fucking tell us.

[A]

And it's still nighttime.

[B]

Em.

[A]

Emergency lights. Like, it's not.

[B]

Yeah, it's one in the morning. Some people are severely injured because of all these things happening. And mostly just trying to stay upright on the ship that's flipped on its side. Eventually, a crew member finds a long rope ladder, and it's dangled along the port side of the ship now facing up at the sky. They basically have to scale down the side of the ship into the water

[A]

to get a rope to a boat. Like, to get rescued.

[B]

Yeah. So the ship's on, and you can see there's like a night vision from the hell. There's like, helicopters in Chicago. You can see just a line of ants, it looks like, trailing down the side of this enormous ship. And there's children, you know, and elderly people. I mean.

[A]

And also, it's like. So it's a rope ladder, but you have to have the physical strength.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Can you imagine? Could you do it right now?

[B]

I think I could do that. I could do that. But not the swim portion of the triathlon.

[A]

Couldn't do. Do both.

[B]

No.

[A]

But also, I would be afraid halfway down, when I'm, like, really at the dangliest part, my arms are like, we're not doing this anymore.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

It's not like I do adrenaline.

[B]

She's a real friend.

[A]

Good one. You know, let's get her going more often.

[B]

Get that cortisone and adrenaline going every morning. That's all we can do. People have to drop into the rescue boats. Mario Pellegrini, the Giglio deputy mayor, and a crew member named Simone Canessa coordinate this rope ladder rescue and eventually go into the hallways to help get more people out. So even though the captain's doing absolutely nothing, there are people on board that work there and don't work there that are being heroes.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

Yeah. They find an aluminum ladder, and then they use that to get people up and out of the hallways to the balcony so that they can get out of the ship as well on the rope ladder and climb down. But some people are still trapped in the less accessible areas awaiting rescuers. And the hotel director that I had told you about, who's like the captain of the hotel part of the adventure, named Manerico GI Pedroni, goes back into the ship's hallway to try to get them to try to save more people and comfort them until rescuers come. Like, he's not abandoning his ship. Hotel, right. But the whole night, everyone has been saying that they saw his face. He was helping people get off the ship. He was helping Guts navigate the chaos and trying to get them to safety. He was in it. But on his way through the sideways corridor, he's knocking on doors, which are now the first, trying to find people who may still be trapped. And then he accidentally steps on one of those doors. It opens up under him and he falls through the door into the room below him because it's now on the side. He hits a wall, splashes into the water, and he realizes he's trapped in the ship's sideways dining room. And he's broken his leg in the fall. And it's filling with water. With freezing fucking water.

[A]

Actively.

[B]

Yeah, the water's rising slowly. He hoists himself onto a top of a metal table and waits to. To be rescued with a broken leg.

[A]

Broken leg.

[B]

All over the ship, people are clamoring out along the side of the boat, which is now on the top, trying to get down to the rescuers. Helicopters are circling and pointing rescuers to where they can see people. It must be the weirdest thing to be trying to escape a boat, a ship, and there are people coming onto it from the island. At that point, I'd be like, okay, then I think we're gonna make it.

[A]

Are people rappelling down from a helicopter?

[B]

No, they're, like riding the lifeboats back to the ship and climbing aboard to go look for survivors.

[A]

Then it does come down from.

[B]

It does. As the sun rises, about 100 people are still unaccounted for. And rescuers are prowling this enormous boat. They're like, breaking, you know, windows and cabins to see if anyone's in there and try to get people out. And they're looking for additional survivors. They find one couple still in their cabin. They had slept through the initial crash and then become trapped. Which sounds like Vince. Me and Vince, like, for sure.

[A]

Ask somebody what's going on.

[B]

Right. You know, that evil we like to take on a vacation. We'll be at dinner later.

[A]

Yeah, but when you wake up, it's 9:30 and you're like, is it 9:30 in the morning?

[B]

Right. And everything feels bad. Down in the dining room, Manrico, the hotel captain director, who had fallen, he can hear the rescuers, but he's so far down that he can't get their attention. He spent the entire night on that Tabletop drinking from a can of coke that went floating by.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Which happened in another one your stories in a hometown recently.

[A]

The jet Ski. The dad that was trapped at sea. Oh, yeah, yeah. So gross.

[B]

And then he. From a bottle that goes floating by of cognac, which.

[A]

Thank God.

[B]

Thank you. And then he finds two pots to bang together to try to get the attention. Nice. And he starts to believe he's going to die in that flooded dining room. Finally, he sees bubbles around him. And fucking rescue divers surface from underneath him.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

It's been hours.

[A]

Arriva d'. Archi. They say, no, no, no. Buon giorno.

[B]

Buongiorno.

[A]

Bona sera.

[B]

Lyanna's nodding. Oh, great. He's saved. He's pulled out of the water. And Errol issued to a hospital. And he is the last survivor pulled off of the boat.

[A]

The captain of the hotel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

In all, 32 people die in the disaster.

[A]

Fuck, that's so many.

[B]

And youngest the a 5 year old dies in her father's arms. No, I know. And in a fall that had been similar to Manrico's. Diana and Williams are Lottie and they had been trying to reach lifeboats on the starboard side of the boat when they fell into a flooded area and drown. Which is like so sad.

[A]

So sad.

[B]

In the documentary, the divers talk about finding the daughter in the arms of the father and just how like you, you just can't move past that.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know. The event becomes an international outrage and the ship lying on its side next to Gilio, becomes a huge symbol for the utter outrageousness of this disaster, which we all saw. The ship settles even more into the water and the 60 meter gash in its hull becomes visible. Very quickly, public opinion coalesces against Francesco Schettino. This is in many ways fair, I think. Right. People are upset with him. But some people point out that the crew on the bridge had ultimately contacted Castro headquarters after the crash and they too had not raised alarms quickly enough.

[A]

Which is like, it's everybody's fault.

[B]

Yeah, but it's like they're the underlings kind of a thing.

[A]

Yeah, they're the underlings. And they're not the ones who are like, let's drive by this island. It'll be so rad.

[B]

And maybe they don't know how bad it is either because they're not being told. Who knows? But some people think that Costa the company is happy to help throw Scatino under the bus to avoid any blame at the corporate level. So event it does Become a thing about this is the one guy that fucked up everything, nobody else is responsible kind of a thing.

[A]

Which is like, the buck stops with this guy. If you want to sue anybody, you're gonna sue this guy.

[B]

Exactly. Which is also like, well, did he have the training? Did he have. You know, it's always going to go above you in some way. Right. So much is made over the fact that Scatina's mistress was on board and not on any of the official manifests. But it ultimately doesn't seem like her presence made much of a material difference in the case. And there's still some debate about where the initial idea to do the same salute came from, but in courts, Cattino's.

[A]

Those two things conflict with each other, though.

[B]

Yeah. I think it's someone else who said to do the drive by.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's just being lumped all together in the details.

[B]

And then like, Italian tabloid magazines, like, they fucking love this cute blonde girl dancer who was the mistress and they should have nothing to do with it. So certainly the choice to do the salute and its deeply flawed execution were ultimately Scatino's responsibility. To this day, as cruise ships swell in s. The Costa Concordia is our only real example of a full evacuation at sea, albeit very close to land. And it didn't go particularly well. So it's a big media moment. The Concordia lies on its side next to Gilio for a full year and a half while a delicate salvage effort takes place. It takes that long to figure out how to right the ship and tow it away without causing an environmental catastrophe by spilling all the fuel on board. So it just sits there. I mean, what a sight for those people on that island, right?

[A]

Yeah, an island and an area that's 100% tourist.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, it's all for and about the tourism and the money you make with tourism.

[B]

It's so quiet otherwise. It's finally refloated and brought to Genoa in September of 2013. It's just like, weird moment. The whole effort cost $799 million to get it the fuck out of there. Twice as much as the ship had cost to build in the first place.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

Scatino is ultimately charged with manslaughter, causing a shipwreck and abandoning the scene of an accident. And his case goes to trial in 2015. He's found guilty and is currently serving a 16 year sentence. Wow. He's the only person to serve a prison sentence for this. Manrico, the hotel director, who had tried all night to save people before falling into a flooded dining room, is among four other Costa employees who are also charged for not doing enough to prevent the disaster.

[A]

Hmm.

[B]

It doesn't sit well.

[A]

No.

[B]

Right. He takes a plea bargain and does not serve time. And he says, quote, my conscience is clear. And he's in this documentary and he's like, I did everything I could. And there were other. There were survivors, passengers who were like, he was the person who saved me was doing something. Exactly. Someday he's going to be redeemed, it feels like. But until then, that is the story of the Costa Concordia disaster. Wow.

[A]

Truly, I always. I remember watching that on the news. I remember seeing it and having it be a thing that just kept coming back. Cause it was just the ship sitting there and all those.

[B]

I mean, what a sight. Yeah.

[A]

But for one second, can we just talk about the fact that that captain got off the ship, he refused to get back on, women and children last, and then stood around in the harbor watching. To me, that's not telling me that that's a person that was. Got off and was gonna run away,

[B]

but he also grabbed some his bag, like, stuff, you know, like what you're just not supposed to do when you're abandoning ship, you know?

[A]

Yeah, abandon's not supposed to come into your vocabulary when you're the captain.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Wow. What a story.

[B]

Yeah, Big one.

[A]

That was good.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, that was entertaining.

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Yeah. Are you doing that right now?

[A]

Don't it take. Take it. It's mine. No, actually today I'm gonna tell you because it is just quick reminder, still Women's History Month. I'm going to celebrate it by telling you about this amazing woman who built an empire from almost nothing in an era when both her race and her gender made her success, especially to the level that she got to a near impossibility. But through sheer grit, community building and an idea for a hair product that came to her now she turned a door to door beauty company into a national powerhouse. This is the story of the trailblazing black businesswoman who became one of America's first self made female millionaires. Madam C.J. walker.

[B]

Oh my God. I don't know this.

[A]

You haven't heard of her?

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

Okay. The main source for this story is the research and the writing of A' Lelia Bundles, who is Madam C.J. walker's great, great, great wow. So she basically wrote her family story. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So Madam C.J. walker's birth name is Sarah Breedlove. So that's how she starts this story. And it does start In December of 1867, two years after the end of the Civil War. Sarah Breedlove is born on the same cotton plantation in Delta, Louisiana that her parents, Owen and Minerva have been enslaved on from a few years earlier. So this is early post emancipation. And although Owen and Minerva technically are free, they work this exact same fields now as sharecroppers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so if you're not familiar with the reality of sharecropping, it was a physically brutal and deeply exploitative system explicitly designed to keep black families trapped in debt and financially dependent on their white landlords.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So they could make a little bit of money. But it was not like the normal free trade being a race. So Sarah is one of six children. And when she is just seven years old, both of her parents die.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Many historians believe it's from an illness like yellow fever or cholera, but officially their causes of death are unclear, probably unregistered. So the now orphaned Sarah moves in with her older sister Luvenia. But then Luvenia marries an abusive man and Sarah becomes desperate to get away from him and get out of that home. So when she's just 14 years old, she marries a sharecropper named Moses McWilliams. And when she's 17, she gives birth to their first child, their daughter named Lelia, who will later go by a', Lelia, which is the family name that a' Lelia Bundles, I think inherited. But then two years after that, Moses, her husband Moses dies. So now at just 21 years old, Sarah is left to support herself and her daughter all alone. So they move to St. Louis, Missouri, where four of Sarah's brothers, all of them working as barbers. She builds real community in St. Louis. She becomes deeply involved at her local African Methodist Episcopal Church. And of course, she has to work hard to make ends meet. Between church functions, Sarah works exhausting shifts as a laundress that regularly stretch late into the night. But she still only takes home around $2 a week. And that would be how much in today's money?

[B]

$275.

[A]

$75.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Still not great.

[B]

No.

[A]

She is stretched thin in every way. But she always looks really nice and put together because she believes that as a laundress, if she looks amazing, wears beautiful tailored clothes that will attract more clients, she'll be her own example of how she can make you look good. The way she looks good. Beyond her work, she sees how her outward appearance affects the way people treat her as a black woman. So it's that idea where you can't be casual and you, you can't be comfortable. You have to be proving yourself all the time. But while Sarah can always ensure that her clothes are crisp and clean, what she can't always control is her hair. So now she's in her 30s, she's been struggling with scalp irritation and hair loss for years. And she's consulted her barber brothers and tried about every product on the market, most manufactured by white run companies. Nothing is really helping. Sarah's not alone at this time. As her daughter, A' Lelia Bundles will later note, quote, during the early 1900s, when most Americans lacked indoor plumbing and electricity, bathing was a luxury. As a result, Sarah and many other women were going bald because they washed their hair so infrequently, leaving it vulnerable to environmental hazards such as pollution, bacteria and lice.

[B]

End quote.

[A]

So that's that thing where my grandmother is similar version. But it's like she would get her hair done at the salon, shampoo set once a week, once a week at the most. And so it'd be like you had to preserve this hairdo. And then for black women, it's even more so. It's like you can't get someone to get it done correctly, not burn your scalp off. Like, all those things.

[B]

Products aren't there. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So you're just trying to preserve what you have most of the time. Then Sarah meets someone new, and it's her second husband. His name's John Davis. Their relationship is described as, quote, troubled, and they also end up divorcing. So Sarah finds herself sad. She's 35 with a child, and she is totally unsure as to what her future will hold. She'll later say, quote, I was at my tubs one morning with a heavy wash before me. As I bent over the washboard and looked at my arms buried in soap suds, I said to myself, what are you going to do when you grow old and your back gets stiff? Who's going to take care of your little girl? So Sarah has been an amazing mother to her child. By 1905, A' Lelia has graduated high school. She now goes to Knoxville College in Tennessee. And once that happens, Sarah realizes her daughter is an independent young woman and college student. So she now decides to go to Denver so she can be closer to a family member who's going through tough times at this point. When she arrives in Denver, she has a dollar fifty to her name.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And that's how much in today's money?

[B]

Hold on. 90? 50?

[A]

5.

[B]

5? Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. That makes more sense.

[A]

Still a frightening low number to travel across the country with. By the end of the next year, in 1906, Sarah will have married again. This time, her new husband is Charles Joseph Walker, and he's in ad sales for a black newspaper. They actually met back in St. Louis and started falling in love back there. So the relationship starts back there. Then she has to move to Colorado. And when she does that, she takes on domestic work, like cooking and. And white households. And on the side, she continues her work as a sales rep for a beauty company that she also had started back in St. Louis. The company is owned by a businesswoman named Annie Malone. Annie Malone is also black, and she's one of the first women in America to build a national cosmetics empire. Her company is called Poro, and it sells various beauty and hair care products based on what she calls, quote, the Poro system System. It's geared at treating black women's scalps and strengthening their hair, which is something, of course, Sarah is very Interested in Annie Malone has amassed a huge sales network that employs thousands of girls and women across the U.S. including Sarah, at a time when black women's job options were basically limited to domestic labor and sharecropping.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So it's almost like these are products we need desperately, and all you have to do is get your little kit and go out and. And you can sell them.

[B]

So brilliant.

[A]

Malone has also launched a successful cosmetics school in St. Louis that doubles as a meeting place for black organizations who have been barred from meeting at other public venues. So you can kind of see the career of Annie Malone really is starting to provide a blueprint for Sarah and her story and how it turns out. Because Sarah uses Poro products and she sells Poirot products, but she still seeks advice from pharmacists and other people familiar with the medicinal ingredients of effective hair products. And so she starts tinkering with her own hair care formulas, using herself as a guinea pig. She develops three products that she thinks are particularly effective. Her vegetable shampoo, which has ingredients like honey, tea tree oil, and sage in it. Amazing, right? Meant to help with dandruff and scalp irritation. Then there's a product called Glass Glossine. I'm assuming it's pronounced Glossine, which is a hair oil that's intended for both men and women to help soften hair and make it more shiny. Then there's a famous product called Wonderful Hair Grower. The name basically says it all, and it has ingredients like beeswax, petroleum jelly, and coconut oil. Sarah claims that her Hair grower formula came to her from the divine. She says, quote, God answered my prayer for one night. I had a dream. And in that dream, a big black man appeared to me and told me what to mix up from some of the remedy was grown in Africa. But I sent for it, mixed it, put it on my scalp, and in a few weeks, my hair was coming in faster than it had ever fallen out.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I tried it on my friends. It helped them. I made up my mind. I would begin to sell it. End quote.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So this is how she does it.

[B]

Here's a recipe.

[A]

Yes, exactly. So, keeping in mind that, of course, starting a business is a herculean task for black Americans in this area. Era. PBS points out, quote, along the indelible color line that court cases like Plessy vs Ferguson Drew Black people. In the turn of the century America were excluded from most trade unions and denied bank capital, resulting in trapped lives as sharecroppers or menial low wage earners.

[B]

Right.

[A]

End quote. But because the white establishment doesn't see black beauty brands as competition with white owned businesses. Entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs like Sarah and Annie Malone, they have more opportunity because they're going into an area that those people don't care about or even understand. Also, these products have fairly low startup costs. So Sarah Breedlove leaves the Poro company. She invests in her own ingredients, her own jars, and then she starts selling her own formulas herself door to door. And it's around this time that she takes her husband. So she starts going by Madam C.J. walker, and that's what she names her new business. And it not only gives her this air of French sophistication, it's also an act of resistance. Because in this era, white Americans tend to dismissively refer to black women either by diminutives like auntie or Sally, or just by their first name. White women might be called Ms. Or Mrs. So basically, Sarah putting Madam C.J. walker into her name demands respect.

[B]

Yeah. Tricking the system. Yeah.

[A]

Right. So I'll be calling her madam C.J. walker from here on out. So taking a page from Annie Malone's poro company, Madam C.J. walker rolls out an entire hair care system for black women. In addition to those first three products that I already told you about, her line also includes lotions, pomades, and combs. And it operates on the ethos that black women should feel pride in themselves and in their appearances. The tins all feature an image of Madam C.J. walker, Walker herself. And her dark skin tone is a strong contrast to every other beauty product on the market that uses white or white passing women on their labels. So here's.

[B]

Yeah, you have a photo.

[A]

The original can. Oh, wow. So she's like, Madam C.J. walker. Do you. Do you need this for your hair? Here's my hair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Here's how gorgeous my face is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, how powerful would that be to just one day find that at.

[B]

Yeah. That's incredible.

[A]

Oh, my God. So good. So before long, the Madam CJ Walker brand is earning around $10 a week, which is worth around. Do you want to do it again?

[B]

I can't remember, like, 70, $360.

[A]

So she's making about 400 bucks a week in today's money. And more cash always seems to be coming in. So she hits the. The road. She spends more than a year and a half traveling across the country to black communities, particularly in the South. And she's demonstrating her products in churches and at community gatherings. And after knocking on countless doors back home, she uses her husband's expertise in advertising and she begins posting ads in black newspapers. Right?

[B]

So smart, right?

[A]

It's said that her consistent ad dollars became the lifeblood of some of these black publications over the. So it's so smart. It's bring it to your community, keep the money in your community. Like this is their product. And then the white man isn't watching. You can make some a nice living for yourself.

[B]

Yeah. Amazing.

[A]

By 1908, Madam C.J. walker has become so successful she opens her own cosmetic school. She names it Lelia College after her daughter. And her daughter will go on to manage that school. When she grows up, Madam C.J. walker trains her beauty school students to become, quote, hair hair culturalists so that they can share. God, she would love TikTok today. She would fucking destroy on TikTok today so that they can share her hair care methods throughout the country. So basically she teaches all of the women who are become her salespeople. It's one step further in that of like, you're not just salespeople, you're hair culturalists. You're gonna help them get their hair back.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Within a few years of that, Madam Walker opens her own family factory, complete with a second cosmetic school and a beauty salon inside it. This is going. It's a time of incredible growth for Madame C.J. walker and her business. Sadly, not for her personal life. She ends up divorcing her third husband, Charles Joseph Walker, over, quote, business differences. What she does is she keeps his last name though, cuz she's not changing that for this. Even though she's become an overwhelming success in business in just a couple years, Madam C.J. walker is not getting the recognition she deserves from the male dominated black business establishment. This includes famed educator and advocate Booker T. Washington, who's the head of what's known then as the National Negro Business League. It's now been renamed the National Business League, but at the time it connected black entrepreneurs across the country, aiming to support them and black businesses. So the people of Madam C.J. walker era have a stigma against black beauty brands. They're largely run by women. The stigma is that it puts undue focus on appearance at a time when real bodily violence is regularly being waged on black Americans. Also, the criticism is that they're selling products that push white beauty standards.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But when this accusation comes up, Madam C.J. walker consistently pushes back on this idea that her products are somehow helping black women assimilate into the white status quo. She was once quoted as saying, quote, let me correct the erroneous Impression held by some that I claim to straighten hair. I deplore such an impression because I've always held myself out as a hair culturalist. I grow hair. She doesn't straighten hair. Yeah, she grows it. End quote. As the official website for the Madam C.J. walker Estate notes, there is persistent a falsehood that she invented straightening combs and chemical perms. She did not. The undeniable fact is that by 1912, Madam C.J. walker is employing around 1600 salespeople and generating about $4,000 a month, which is more than $130,000 a month in today's money.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

She is a business powerhouse who's always working to expand her operation, even spending time in Central American and Caribbean nations. We were just there in the Caribbean nation. And yet none of that even gets her a mention at the 1912 National Business League convention. And you better believe she is there in the audience. And she's so frustrated, she stands up and addresses Booker T. Washington directly in front of everyone, saying, quote, surely you are not going to shut the the door in my face. I'm a woman who started a business seven years ago with only A$50. I went into a business that is despised, that is criticized and talked about by everybody. The business of growing hair. I've been trying to get before you business people to tell you what I'm doing. I'm a woman who came from the cotton fields of the South. From there, I was promoted to the washtub. Then I was promoted to the cook kitchen. And from there I promoted myself into the business of manufacturing hair goods and preparations. My object in life is not simply to make money for myself or to spend it on myself. I love to use a part of what I make in trying to help others. In 1913, Madam C.J. walker donates a thousand dollars, which is more than $30,000 in today's money, to help fund the building of a black YMCA in Indianapolis.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's so much money. It grabs national newspapers. And just for perspective, the average black family's income around this time is around $12 a week.

[B]

Jesus. And she donates a thousand.

[A]

She.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[A]

Yeah. So she's undeniable.

[B]

Yeah. And God, how frustrating for her that, like.

[A]

Oh, yeah. They just. Well, it's like, oh, you do that thing right. Which is what culture does to women.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You do something, you're successful. Well, that's immoral. You shouldn't do that. That's bad vocal fry. We've all. You land in the winner's circle and they figure out all the ways to push you out. You don't know what I'm talking about. You have no experience like this.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

What in the world could you mean? But the good news is Booker T. Washington did take her seriously. And so he invites her to the next year's 1913 National Business League convention, and he invites her to address attendees who come. And he also comes to Indianapolis for the YMCA's dedication ceremony.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's reported that Madam Walker sends her chauffeur to pick him up from the train station, and she has him stay at her home as a guest.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

So she's going to show him exactly how successful she is. Little baller, right? Love this woman.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, where she got. Got this spirit. And it, like, clearly, it's like her parents were people that, like, we'll do it ourselves. Yeah, we'll do. We'll go and do it then.

[B]

Incredible.

[A]

And her brothers, four barbers.

[B]

Yeah. Like chutzpah.

[A]

Yeah. So by 1916, when she's around 49 years old, Madam C.J. walker has grown a national network of around 40,000 salespeople.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

She begins organizing them into regional chapters who meet annually at their own conventions. The inaugural Madam C.J. walker Hair culturalists Union of America convention is held in 1917.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So in 1912, they try to push her out, and within four years, she's got her own fucking convention, is how she does it. Wow. And it's one of the first national business women conferences in American history.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

Separate from skin color, Madam C.J. walker uses that meaning to celebrate and bring her employees for their hard work. It's said that she is widely considered to be a wonderful boss. Wow. But this beauty convention is also expressly political. Now, the summer of 1917 is remembered as a particularly violent period with many incidents of horrific racist brutality at the hands of white mobs. It's only four years later that the burning of black Wall street happened, which we talk about on this show, which is a horrible example of one of those moments. Okay, so at the 1917 convention, Madam C.J. walker tells her employees, quote, this is the greatest country under the sun, but we must not let our love of our country, our patriotic loyalty, cause us to abate one wit in our protest against wrong and injustice. End quote. That same summer, Madam C.J. walker is among the organizers of a march down New York City's Fifth Avenue protesting racial violence.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Many of her employees participate. Meanwhile, her net worth is ballooning and etching her into history as one of the very first self made female millionaires ever.

[B]

Holy fucking shit.

[A]

How do we not know about this?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Why isn't that name a household name? Well, Madam C.J. walker buys beautiful homes in several cities. She begins building an impressive 35 room three story mansion in Irvington on Hudson, New York, 20 miles north of the city in Westchester County.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

And this is the area where several white male Gilded age tycoons have built estates.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's said that Madam Walker wants to live here specifically to symbolize. God, she's the fucking greatest. She's the greatest. She's got it figured out specifically to symbolize everything that a black woman can accomplish. Fuck yeah, dude.

[B]

I fucking love it.

[A]

She's like the original version of Representation Matters.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Put your face on the can.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Put your house next to the white tycoon.

[B]

Stand up at the convention that won't acknowledge you and tell them why they will and must acknowledge you.

[A]

I'll be here next year and hear the reasons why. Booker T. Washington, dude. So awesome. Okay. She even contacts New York's first registered black architect to build that property for.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Just badass.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As her Westchester mansion is being completed, Madam C.J. walker spends much of her time in in Harlem. And she becomes very passionate about the NAACP's anti lynching work that they have started. She donates the equivalent of $126,000 in today's money to them. And in 1917, she visits the White House to advocate for federal anti lynching laws.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

She's going all the way there. This isn't like, oh, that might affect my reputation if I get into that business. Less than two years later, in 1919, Madam C.J. walker dies of kidney failure brought on by hypertension. She's 51 years old.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Not long before her death, she updates her will so that two thirds of her future net profits from her company go to charity.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Her family has plenty.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's how you do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She leaves about a hundred thousand dollars of her fortune, which is more than 2.5 million today, to cause like funding schools, civil rights organizations, and black community institutions. After her death, Madam C.J. walker's beloved daughter A' Lelia carries her mother's legacy forward and becomes one of the most important patrons of black artists and thinkers during the Harlem Renaissance. A' Lelia will pass in 1931, when she's in her mid-40s, also of complications caused by hypertension. Decades later, her namesake and Madam C.J. walker's great great granddaughter, A' Lelia Bundles, whose research has been cited extensively in this story, works to preserve her family's history and to tell their complete story of Madam C.J. walker. A' Lelia said, quote, when I look at her life, I think it's fabulous that she became a millionaire. It's stunning that she became a millionaire. But for me, the most lasting legacy is that she empowered people and that she to used to make a difference in her community and to show other people their ability to make a difference in their communities.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

End quote. And that's the story of Madam C.J. walker.

[B]

Oh, my God. We should do a donation to end this.

[A]

Good idea.

[B]

Where do you want to do it to?

[A]

How about the NAACP?

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Sound good?

[B]

Yeah, I love it. 10 grand.

[A]

If we could only be a tenth of what Madam C.J.

[B]

walker was, which in today's percentage is

[A]

10 grand, is 10 grand to the NAACP.

[B]

Oh, my God. That's amazing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Great job. Thank you. Hit all the spots, right? Yeah. Inspiring and fun. Yeah.

[A]

And TikTok.

[B]

And hair.

[A]

And hair.

[B]

She didn't fucking need TikTok even.

[A]

She did it herself. She went out there and did it herself.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

On the niche. She found the answered niche. She answered it.

[B]

You guys find yours. We'll be there supporting you and backing you up. And we're fucking on your side.

[A]

And then once you do that, write into [e-mail] and tell us all about all of your dreams coming true. Yeah.

[B]

We want to write in your vision

[A]

board, manifesting style like it's already happened.

[B]

Right. Or if it already did, tell us.

[A]

I built my mansion on Irvington on Hudson right next to all these other tycoons.

[B]

Thank you guys so much for listening. We appreciate you, as always, forever and ever.

[A]

We appreciate you watching if you're on Netflix.

[B]

Yeah, we do.

[A]

This is podcasting. Have you heard of it?

[B]

Podcasting. 2026, baby. Hey.

[A]

All right, Here we go. This is really going to be a true honking hooray.

[B]

Yeah, definitely.

[A]

Because you love to honk the horn.

[B]

I do. And I can't read while I'm driving or I'll get viciously car sick.

[A]

No. So I will handle reading all the honking hoorays. Okay. Also, thank you to Hyundai for letting us present the honking hoorays in action

[B]

in a moving car in my actual Hyundai.

[A]

Also, I just want to point out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That this car has air conditioned. In the seats.

[B]

In the seats.

[A]

In the seats.

[B]

Our butts are so air conditioned.

[A]

Right Now I can't even tell you as a middle aged woman how important this feature is to me. It's truly innovative. Okay, you want to start these?

[B]

Yeah, let's do it. Read to me, please.

[A]

Here's our first honking Hooray. Presented by Hyundai. It says hi to my closest gal pals that I've never actually met. While listening to your rewind episode, the great Guy. Law Time New Year's Spectacular featuring Guy Branham, I had a full circle moment. The last time I heard this episode was eight years ago when I had just packed up my life and moved across the country for law school. I was also more than tired of studying for my final criminal law exam. So imagine my joy when I realized Karen and Georgia were suddenly helping me review the McNaughton Rule. Do you remember that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And y', all, I aced that exam. You and Guy Branham are absolutely welcome to take the credit. That alone is a major hooray. But the bigger hooray is this. The episode reminded me of how far I've come since then. Cops. The real cops. Yes. From behind. From the side.

[B]

Okay, now we're good.

[A]

Okay. In the eight years since, I've tackled plenty of obstacles. Like taking the bar exam in my bathroom. And then it says yes.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Thanks, Covid. And your charming at home testing rules that disqualified every other room in my apartment.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

And yet here we are in 2025. Two dogs, one husband, one baby, one law degree later. And MFM was the soundtrack to it all. Hooray for women in male dominated fields, for working moms, and for Guy Branham's criminal law expertise. Stay sexy and don't forget how far you've come. Amanda. Oh my God.

[B]

Congratulations.

[A]

Amanda is a mom, a lawyer, a badass, and it's all because of us. Do you understand?

[B]

Congratulations and you're welcome.

[A]

I think the McNaughton Rule really came alive when we talked about it and asked.

[B]

Everyone found out about it.

[A]

That's right. Here's the next one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

This says airplane hooray. And it says hi ladies. My hooray is my flight. I fly almost every week for work, so flights take typically don't bother me. On this flight we had taken off and we were in the air for about an hour when they told us to turn around and make an emergency landing due to the in all caps hydraulic system having a break in it. That's right. Very similar to episode 486. Take these from me. That was the time I having just listened to this episode Started to freak out while simultaneously keeping a calm composure. All I could do was think about, oh, God, this is gonna be just like that MFM episode. Luckily, the amazing pilots landed us safe and sound with just a little more than a jolt. Thanks for helping me make my commutes entertaining, Brad.

[B]

Aww, Brad. Brad. Glad you survived, Brad.

[A]

You really did it. Okay, I'm gonna read another one, okay? Cause this one's really fun. This says you guys. Listening to the recent call in Farrell hometown made me remember I had something to share. I went across the pond for the first time recently where I got engaged. That's a hooray in itself. But the best part of my trip? Going to a small town in England where we met some people at a pub who were obsessed with my fiance over his resemblance to Colin Farrell. We hung out and got drunk with them for hours. Not once did they call him by his real name. For one magical night, I was engaged to a movie star. So hooray for my super hottie boyfriend, soon to be my husband. Love you, Ryan, who I wouldn't trade for anyone in the world. Even Colin. And that's from Tess.

[B]

Aw, Tess.

[A]

Tess. That's a really sweet honking hooray. It's about love. It's about appreciating Irish people. I mean, English people should be Irish people.

[B]

It's about going to bars and meeting new people.

[A]

All the great things in this world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, those are our honking hoorains.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

Thanks, Hyundai, for giving us this car

[A]

to drive around and for sponsoring our honking hoorays. Stay sexy.

[B]

Oh, yeah. And don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[A]

This has been an exactly right production.

[B]

Our senior producer is Molly Smith, and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

[A]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[B]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[A]

Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[B]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com

[A]

and follow the show on Instagram at My favorite murder.

[B]

Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

And now you can watch my favorite Murder on Netflix.

[B]

And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show. Show goodbye. The Internet loves to say, go touch grass. As though lawns aren't a constant source of stress.

[A]

Brown Patch Personal Failure Fertilizer.

[B]

Grow Up Sunday is a yard care company designed to make that easier.

[A]

They analyze your soil, use climate data and build a custom yard plan.

[B]

Sunday uses nutrient dense ingredients, not harsh chemicals.

[A]

Which feels better already.

[B]

Go to getsunday.com to get your free custom yard yard analysis.

[A]

That's getsunday.com goodbye. If you're looking for your next drama obsession, we've got one for you.

[B]

From the producers of the crown comes BritBox's brand new original series the Lady. Inspired by a true story of a

[A]

royal scandal, it follows Jane Andrews, a working class woman plucked from obscurity and appointed the highly coveted role of Royal Dresser to the Duchess of York at Buckingham Palace.

[B]

But after rising to the heights of British high society, everything started starts to unravel, spiraling into obsession, suspicion and murder.

[A]

This is a story of class, ambition and the allure of royalty.

[B]

Starring award winning actress Natalie Dormer and Mia McKenna Bruce.

[A]

Don't miss the Lady. Now streaming only on Britbox.

[B]

Watch for the free [e-mail] goodbye.

[A]

If you've ever tried healthy bread and it left you feeling personally betrayed, you're not alone.

[B]

If you want an option that actually tastes amazing, try Herobread.

[A]

Herobread is baked with olive oil and designed to be soft, fluffy and flavorful, the way bread is supposed to taste and feel.

[B]

It's built to fit into a more mindful routine without giving up the texture or comfort people expect from real bread.

[A]

They make all the essentials sliced bread, bagels, tortillas and buns so it works for everyday meals like breakfast wraps, grilled cheese sandwiches and bagels.

[B]

Hero also releases limited items like their croissant with 2 grams of net carbs per serving, which has developed a strong following.

[A]

We had Herobread on the counter in the kitchen here at work. When I tell you how delicious it smelled in there because everyone started making toast and everyone was eating the bread and loving it. They were just like, this is delicious. I mean, anything's possible in our kitchen.

[B]

Now go to Hero Co, check out the 30,000 plus 5 star reviews and use code iheart for 10% off your first order.

[A]

All figures are per serving. Not a low calorie food.

[B]

Baked goods contain up to 18 grams of fat per serving. See nutrition facts for more info.

[A]

Goodbye. Your next beach escape starts with a great deal from cheap Caribbean Vacations.

[B]

Get $175 off instantly on Dream beach retreats in Punta Cana, Jamaica, Aruba and the Bahamas.

[A]

Sun, sand and serious savings are waiting.

[B]

Visit CheapCaribian.com and get more beach for less money. Goodbye.

[A]

Sometimes you need a trip that actually feels like an escape, not just a change of scenery.

[B]

That's exactly what Baja Mar and Nassau delivers between the casino and the water park. Like I could have stayed there for months.

[A]

We were so lucky to get to visit this place. And it truly I just kept saying, like, this is such a good idea where you immediately want to be in a tropical location, but then you also want to go out to dinner that night. That is the ultimate vacation for me of you're getting a little treat of everything.

[B]

It's paradise. Plan your own [e-mail]. goodbye.

[A]

Goodbye.