525 - Snap It Out

Summary

My Favorite Murder – Episode 525: “Snap It Out”

Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark
Date: March 26, 2026
Podcast Network: Exactly Right & iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this rich, heartfelt, and darkly humorous episode, Karen and Georgia connect recent events, listener experiences, and history through two main stories. First, Karen dives deep into the 1942 mass poisoning at the Oregon State Hospital, uncovering a little-known tragedy and exploring its resonance with current mental health care debates. Georgia then honors Women’s History Month by sharing the inspirational story of Marion Pritchard, a Dutch resistance hero who saved 150 Jewish children during the Holocaust. The conversations weave personal anecdotes, comedy, historical context, and impassioned commentary on systemic neglect and everyday heroism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up: Awards Shows, Travel, and the Airplane Snot Incident

[03:40 – 10:22]

• Karen and Georgia recount their recent trip to Austin for SXSW and the iHeart Podcast Awards.
• Memorable riff about a man with a huge green handkerchief “snapping out” his snot repeatedly on a crowded flight, leading to growing horror and bonding with seat companions.
  • “He blows his nose in it and then snaps it out like three times every sixty seconds.” — Karen [05:23]
  • “It started weird... By the fifteenth time, I was literally screaming and putting my sweater over my mouth every time he did it.” — Karen [05:34]
• Lighthearted banter about fashion mishaps, vintage shopping, and the existential threat posed by their growing tote bag collections.

2. Podcast Network & Community Updates

[10:22 – 12:25]

• Highlights from the Exactly Right Media network, including praise for new series, guest interviews (Bradley Whitford on That’s Messed Up), and a roundup of recent true crime cases featured on various shows.
• Announcement: Spring cleaning merch sale with promo code ERMSPRING26.

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Main Story 1: The 1942 Oregon State Hospital Mass Poisoning

Presented by Karen Kilgariff

[17:01 – 41:39]

Context & Setup

• Inspired by Karen’s friend Zach Galifianakis’s new gardening show, Karen introduces the larger context of wartime America.
• The Oregon State Hospital in Salem faced overcrowding, understaffing, and chronic underfunding during WWII, similar to many mental health facilities nationwide.

The Tragedy Unfolds

• On November 18, 1942, dinner (scrambled eggs) is served to over 3,000 patients and staff. Within minutes, hundreds fall violently ill; dozens die rapidly.
• Early reports describe the eggs as “salty” or “soapy.” Nurses, like Ali Wassell, notice the taste and try to intervene.
  • “A nurse named Ali Wassell is so uneasy about the taste, she orders all of her patients to stop eating these eggs.” — Karen [25:54]

Investigation, Paranoia, and the Source

• Mass panic follows—fears of enemy sabotage and poisoned government rations run rampant.
• An investigation reveals the scrambled eggs were laced with sodium fluoride (rat poison), accidentally mixed in instead of powdered milk due to poor storage and lack of labeling.
• A trusted patient (“trustee”) was sent for powdered milk, but unlocked storage rooms and unlabeled containers led to the accidental mixing of toxic cockroach poison into the meal.

Systemic Failures and Aftermath

• No criminal charges are filed, but a grand jury lays blame on institutional neglect, lack of trained staff, and inadequate funding.
• Immediate reforms include national laws for clear poison labeling and increases in hospital funding—but the pattern of neglect continues for decades.
• Karen draws direct lines from this past to ongoing mental health crises and political funding cuts, making the story chillingly relevant.
  • “We are not in a particularly progressive era when it comes to this issue, particularly at the federal level.” — Karen [39:28]
  • “This is a reminder of the stakes of indifference and neglect when it comes to our national health care.” — Karen [40:58]
• Finishes with a resonant quote from JFK:
  “We must promote to the best of our ability... the mental and physical health of all our citizens.” — JFK (as quoted by Karen) [41:15]

Memorable Moments/Quotes

• “It should say fucking poison.” — Georgia [32:45]
• “Because of these staffing issues, it’s impossible for Abraham and his colleagues to do their jobs without relying on patient trustees, who are not trained as actual staff.” — Karen [35:47]

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Main Story 2: Marion Pritchard – Dutch Resistance Hero

Presented by Georgia Hardstark

[47:07 – 70:43]

The World War II Backdrop

• For Women’s History Month, Georgia profiles Marion Pritchard, a young Dutch social worker who saved more than 150 Jewish children amid Nazi occupation.

Early Life & Motivation

• Marion, raised by progressive parents in Amsterdam, decides to study social work rather than medicine to avoid swearing a Nazi loyalty oath.
• Witnesses horrific deportations and anti-Semitic violence, leading her to dedicate herself to the Dutch resistance.
  • “There’s two women coming from the other direction and they tried to stop the Nazis and they picked the women up and threw them on top of the kids and drove off. And that was when I fully consciously decided that this was it.” — Marion (quoted by Georgia) [57:28]

Acts of Courage

• Shelters a Jewish toddler at personal and family risk.
• Works with resistance networks to hide and transport Jewish children, at times posing as an unwed mother to get false papers for the kids.
  • “For months, this is how Marion helps—shuttling children back and forth to families that can house them.” — Georgia [59:30]
• Moves in with the Pollack family (father and three young children) to hide them in a rural house; practices rapid escape into a hidden crawlspace.

Ultimate Test: Life or Death

• When a Dutch Nazi collaborator discovers the hiding place, Marion shoots and kills him to protect the family.
  • “I couldn’t think of anything to do but shoot him.” — Marion (quoted by Georgia) [62:04]
• With help from local resistance (a gay ballet dancer, a baker, and an undertaker), they secretly dispose of the body and avoid detection.

Impact, Aftermath, and Reflection

• Marion continues resistance work, highlighting both the extraordinary risks and the collective responsibility of ordinary people.
• After the war, she helps run displaced persons camps and later becomes a psychoanalyst and teacher in the U.S.
  • “Not only did she save lives during the 1940s, but she continues to save lives today through her influence.” — Colleague (quoted by Georgia) [69:01]
• Her lasting message: the real rescuers were the parents who gave up their children to be hidden, not knowing if it was the right choice.

Notable Quotes

• “[The world] did not neatly divide up into perpetrators, victims, bystanders and rescuers. The delivery man wasn’t actively involved in the resistance... and yet when asked, they cooperated.” — Marion (quoted by Georgia) [64:29]
• “Life is children.” — Marion (quoted by her family) [69:39]

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Core Takeaways and Resonance

• Systemic Neglect Still Kills: Both main stories underline the deadly consequences of institutional neglect—whether through bureaucratic accidents or political indifference.
• Everyday Acts of Courage Matter: Marion Pritchard’s story amplifies the power of personal resistance, and how small acts, performed at great personal risk, can save lives and shape history.
• Historical Relevance: The struggles of past generations with rationing, scarcity, and government failure echo strongly in today’s context—from mental health funding to the current state of social services.
  • “We need to feed ourselves. We need to feed our communities. Need to take care of each other.” — Karen [42:26]
• Comedy and Compassion: True to the show’s DNA, heavy material is tempered with warmth, self-deprecation, and a steady appeal to the better angels of human nature.
  • “Be a decent human being is all we’re asking. Just save some children. Focus on children. For once in your life.” — Georgia and Karen (paraphrased, [70:17])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [03:40] – Opening conversation, handkerchief man on the airplane
• [10:22] – Podcast network and merch updates
• [17:01] – Beginning of Karen’s Oregon State Hospital story
• [25:54] – The poisoning event unfolds in real-time at the hospital
• [32:45] – Discovery of the labeling/storage protocol failure
• [39:28] – Modern echoes: continued failures in mental health funding/policy
• [41:39] – Transition to Georgia’s story
• [47:07] – Georgia begins the story of Marion Pritchard
• [57:28] – Pritchard’s pivotal moment of decision
• [62:04] – The confrontation and shooting of the Nazi collaborator
• [69:01] – The legacy of Marion Pritchard as educator and inspiration
• [70:17] – Summing up: lessons, courage, decency

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Notable Quotes

“It should say fucking poison. Yes, you’re exactly right. And keep that—bookmark that idea for later.”
— Karen [32:45]

“The greatest rescuers of children were the parents who gave them up.”
— Marion Pritchard (quoted by Georgia) [66:22]

“We must promote to the best of our ability... the mental and physical health of all our citizens.”
— JFK (quoted by Karen) [41:15]

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Tone and Style

Karen and Georgia maintain their trademark balance of irreverence, empathy, and incisive social commentary. The banter is lively and candid, punctuating dark historical detail with modern analogies and comic asides, making the stories both approachable and deeply affecting.

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Conclusion

This episode is a testament to how storytelling—rooted in history, but animated by humor, friendship, and moral clarity—can both entertain and illuminate. The stories encourage listeners to remember the costs of bureaucratic indifference and the transformative potential of everyday courage, especially in times of crisis.

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Stay Sexy, and Don’t Get Murdered!

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My favorite.

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Hello and welcome to my favor. That's Georgia Hartstart, that's Karen Kilgarith.

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And we're here podcasting for you with full hearts and can't lose and golden and living our lives like it's golden and we're golden and we are doing it.

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Okay, we have to talk about this. Are you sick? Because. Oh, oh, we have to talk about. We went to Austin over the weekend for south by SouthWest for the iHeart Podcast Awards. So much fun. Every year I get on the plane, I'm sitting right behind, directly behind Karen and directly next to Karen. So I can see this person through the arm chair rest thing. This fucking dude. Tell them about him.

[A]

Well, this dude was very proud. Cause he had a kerchief that he liked to blow his nose in. And he started about three minutes before the plane took off. I felt like I was interpreting maybe some nervousness about the flight, maybe some

[B]

tension, maybe some fucking like bubonic plague.

[A]

Well, so he pulls this kerchief out of his pocket.

[B]

Green handkerchief. I'll never forget it.

[A]

Gigantic. And he blows his nose like he's doing a bit like. It's like a I'm an elephant kind

[B]

of trumpeting thing, which, you know, like I blow my nose constantly. So I'm not gonna be like a shamey person. I don't. I try not to do that in public.

[A]

Public, no. And especially like this idea of like, well, someone has their own. We keep saying kerchief. What's the right handkerchief? Handkerchief.

[B]

Y.

[A]

Except for that this man. Then after he blew it into this

[B]

already wet Gigantic, damp, gigantic green handkerchief.

[A]

He snaps it out like a goddamn picnic blanket. I am not exaggerating when I tell you he blows his nose in it and then snaps it out like three

[B]

times every 60 seconds.

[A]

It started weird. I almost said something like on the fourth time. By the 15th time, I was literally screaming and putting my sweater over my mout mouth every time he did it.

[B]

Here's the biggest problem. Don't be sick on a plane. And if you're. If you are, at least try to pretend you're not. Like, don't get on a plane if you have to blow your nose cause you're so sick every minute.

[A]

If I may, I'm gonna argue with that. I don't think that's what it was. I think he had a truly sick perversion to like getting snot on people or something. Cause it was so nonsensically. When have you ever seen someone blow their nose and then snap out the handkerchief? Snap it out.

[B]

That reminds me of like, there was a. Where I kept walking at nice restaurants. Kept walking into a man who forgot to lock the door. Standing at the urinal, I was like, why does that keep happening to me? And someone was like, that's a fetish. Is having someone walking on you, peeing. And I was like, okay, it's not just this weird, right? You know? And it was always like, not that nice restaurants matter, but it was at places where, like, it wasn't a gas station where you're like, you've been driving for six hours. The lock in it. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Well, and also in this situation, it's very easy, jokey, to be like, it's a fetish. But nothing else explains the amount of times he did it. The. The drama with which he snapped it out where it was just like, I can't believe the people across the aisle are pissed.

[B]

It was so bad that I made. I did something I've. I never do on flights. I've made friends with the person sitting next to me. I had to turn and start talking to her or I was going to fucking scream.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she ended up being this lovely woman with South Asia who lives in my fucking neighborhood.

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So funny.

[B]

And we chatted the whole time. I'm sure that was super annoying too, because I hated it.

[A]

Oh, no, I didn't hear you. I didn't hear. I was up in the front getting stuff on my shoulder from this man.

[B]

I can't believe you're not sick, and

[A]

I don't think I am. Although I'm today in Los Angeles. Fun Weather talk. It's so hot. It's hot that I kind of feel sick from how is it this hot?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I wore a really kind of I didn't think it through summer shirt on. And then when I got to work, I was like, I don't want to wear this on camera. On camera, on video, on video, on Netflix. Big concern these days, listeners with a whole other thing that's happening while you listen. And we've got all these other things to worry about.

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It's just like life keeps happening even

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though it's happening, even though me and my 55 year old face aren't that into it. Also, what is wrong with my hair?

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What are you talking about?

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It's always a weird triangle. Well, anyway, thanks to Iheart, we really love being partners with Iheart as a company. The people that work there are so cool. We were so excited to be at that awards show. I texted Nora, I was like, hey, your favorite podcast won podcast of the year. Cause she loves giggly squad.

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My God, they were the fucking most hilarious women I've ever. They were so good, so charming and lovely.

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We don't have to worry about the future. They're going to kill it in every direction. They were so hilarious.

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We can retire.

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But yeah, we got to see lots of people that we like there and

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hang out, watch what crappens. Always a pleasure. So it was super fun.

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Fun all around.

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We lost, but we're really, we were just happy to be there.

[A]

We're used to losing.

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We're so used to losing.

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That's where. That's our comfort zone. I think I really get uncomfortable when the winning starts.

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So I mean we already won at

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life, so we won like posted up on a couc in at these awards, hanging out, having saying hi like with

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Jake from Disgraceland on one side, Craig

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Peralt on the other. What more does anyone want? What more in this life? Oh, we got to see the head and the heart play live like in front of 50 people or something. It was great. Thank you. Thank you all.

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No chicken shit bingo this year. But no, you can't win it all.

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But a lot because again, to talk about the weather, the weather was so wildly up and down there that I did a lot and I just want to shout out feathers the vintage store in Austin, because I bought jewelry there, I bought a coat there, I bought a short sleeved shirt there. I did it every season.

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I haven't unpacked yet, so I forgot that I bought a shirt at a vintage store.

[A]

Yes.

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Is that gross? That I haven't unpacked yet.

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Well, no, it's such a pain. It's like you just come back and get right back into everything.

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Yeah.

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I think the woman at Feathers, actually, because she gave me two tote bags with their logo on, I think, once for you.

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Love a tote bag.

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Yeah.

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We should count tote bags one day as, like, a fan cult video.

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I've got them to count for sure.

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Yeah. Got a whole drawer full of funny, ironic sayings on them cities we visited. Our own merch.

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I just got a Gelson's tote.

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Oh.

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Cause you know how everybody's into those Trader Joe's totes around the world.

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Yeah.

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Well, Gelson's in the game now.

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Get in there. Gelson.

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Speaking of incredibly exciting, over on that's Messed Up. Kara and Lisa recap the SVU episode Reasonable Doubt about no Doubt. And they sit down with the no, that's not true. And they sit down with get ready for this, because my jaw dropped when I heard about this. Their guest is the great Bradley Whitford.

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I mean, what a booking.

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Hello.

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Wow. Kara and Lisa killing it.

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So great. Did you see the Death by Lightning? The new Netflix series about the presidential assassination? He's in it. And he's so good.

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Okay.

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He's so good. And this week on Buried Bones, Kate and Paul head to Boston in 1886, where the owner of a laundromat is found murdered in his shop. A laundromat in 1886.

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I know. I was just thinking about that.

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Yeah. True.

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And on. Do youo Need a Ride? Chris and Karen welcome. Francesca Fiorentini. And they talk about Olympic tears, serious skin care, and more.

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Yeah, that was a fun episode. And by the by, over in our merch corner, the spring cleaning sale runs from March 26 to March 29, you can get 20% off site wide. If you've been waiting to grab any kind of a merch, this is your moment.

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Goodbye. Goodbye. All right. Okay, I'm gonna kick us off today. I'd never heard of this story before. It's like, kind of crazy and kind of relevant. I actually just saw a trailer. Zach Galifianakis has a new show out. Have you seen the trailer for it? It's him. And the whole thing's about gardening and growing food and basically how we need to learn how to grow our own food again. Can he stop being the greatest hippie in the world?

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Yeah.

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Love this man, but it's like, truly something he's very passionate about and, like, he's basically teaching people how to do that.

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I need that. I love that.

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That's kind of a perfect little plug. A side plug. Zach is my friend and I adore him and his work, but something to think about as I tell you this story that begins in 1940 at the Oregon State Hospital in the capital city of Salem. This is the state's oldest running psychiatric institution. It was first opened in the 1880s and it's still operating today. The original building has been, I put, remodeled, but it's like completely redone. But the original campus is where they filmed one floor over the cuckoos.

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All right.

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In the seventies.

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I hear you.

[A]

So author Diane Garris Gardner wrote a book about the hospital and she's quoted as saying, quote, the history of the Oregon State Hospital is inevitably the history of the mental health system itself. End quote. And like psychiatric institutions across America, that history includes decades of harmful practices based on outdated thinking, like forced sterilizations and, of course, lobotomies. Horrifying thing that happened and that everyone still has to deal with, alongside the systemic harm caused by chronic underfunding and overcrowding of mental health facilities. So our story begins here on the afternoon of November 18, 1942. It's just after 5 o'. Clock. Hundreds of patients and staff are eating or have just eaten their hospital issued dinner, when slowly, one by one, they begin to display classic signs of poisoning. Some collapse. Others vomit. Many struggle to breathe. Within hours, dozens of people are dead. And officials have no idea who or what is to blame? Oh, my God. This is the story of the 1942 Oregon State Hospital poisoning tragedy.

[B]

I've never heard of this.

[A]

Right, Me either. Tessa, our AP is the one who suggested it. Yeah. So the main sources used today are the book Inside Oregon State Hospital, A History of Triumph and Tragedy by Diane Garris Gardner and reporting by Cappy Lynn for the Statesman Journal. Cappy.

[B]

Cappy's cute.

[A]

That's a great name with a K.

[B]

K, A, P, P, Y.

[A]

It's actually C, A, P, I. Oh, that's cute. But C, A, P, P, Y is also. Yeah, Kippy Cappy. And the rest of the sources in our show notes. So a mass poisoning has been carried out, and investigators need to know why. At the time, tensions in the United States could not be higher. Pearl harbor was the year before December 1941, and that actually ended up pulling us into World War II. Wartime austerity measures now touch every aspect of American life. As the country funnels its resources overseas and trade routes are disrupted, Americans are forced to cut back on everything in their lives, from shoes to paper to tires. Tires.

[B]

Just smiling.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Just everything.

[A]

Hershey bars. That's the one that always gets me in World War II movies when they're like, look, a Hershey bar.

[B]

Yeah. A chocolate bar that reminds me of atonement. And that makes me sad.

[A]

Oh, I just rewatched that, so can you even. But that part where they're on the beach and just waiting to get rescued. Insane.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

So over here, while that's going on, our boys are sacrificing their lives at home. Americans feel all this, their austerity, the most at the grocery store, because food rationing means that every household has to be very careful when it comes to grocery shopping. And since Pearl harbor, there's increased anxiety that there will be further attacks on US Soil, especially in the coastal states, because Japanese subs are being seen in the Pacific. German U boats are being seen in the Atlantic.

[B]

Imagine how fucking terrifying.

[A]

I mean, it was real. Real.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

There's even concern that the already strained U.S. food supply could be targeted by the enemy. The government urges Americans to start growing crops in their backyards and in community gardens, calling them, quote, victory Gard, which is very smart and true to counteract all the fear and scarcity around food. So with that in context, November 18, 1942, at the Oregon State Hospital is just a regular Wednesday. Aside from all of that, about 30 people work in the kitchen as dinner is prepared for patients and staff, and 30 might sound like a lot until you realize the cooking staff prepares three meals a day for around 3,000 people. So it's huge, huge numbers. But just like every other department at this hospital, the kitchen's also going through a staffing crisis because of the war. So they are understaffed and overworked as well. And this is how bad it is. Of the 30 kitchen workers, only three of them are actually employed as cooks. We're not sure if there are other staffers in the mix, but the vast majority of the kitchen staff seem to be patients who are called trustees. Trustees don't actually cook the food, but the hospital relies on them for things like washing the dishes and tidying. And they are not paid for their labor, so they're like patient interns. A combination of inadequate state funding, overcrowding, and wartime rations dictates the menu every day. So at this dinner tonight, the main dish is scrambled eggs. So it's kind of horrible.

[B]

I was gonna ask you if you thought, like, the food still tasted better back then than it does today, but I don't want scrambled eggs in any food time period. That's disgusting.

[A]

I hate scrambled eggs. Not even if they're nice and loose and runny. Well, I can answer because I think this is a thing we don't think about as much these days, except for. Unless you're on food stamps or, you know, your family has to rely on powdered food. But these eggs are frozen yolks made with powdered milk.

[B]

Gross.

[A]

So I'm not thinking. It's a delicious morning, you know, start to your day.

[B]

I can't imagine. Is that. Wait, you said for dinner, though.

[A]

It's dinner.

[B]

We had breakfast for dinner a lot as kids because that was just easy and affordable. And I didn't realize. I was so excited that we're getting.

[A]

Day is night, night is day.

[B]

So exciting.

[A]

We're flipping it all around. I know. My dad would make us breakfast and dinner pancakes. As long as he put little faces inside, we didn't care what was happening. Okay, so scrambled eggs is basically considered decent sustenance, considering that 7 cents, which is about a dol in today's money, is all the hospital is able to allocate to feed each patient per day. Yeah.

[B]

Holy shit. Okay.

[A]

Oregon State Hospital is enrolled in the federal program that supplies the kitchen with frozen egg yolks. And according to the book Inside Oregon State Hospital, quote, without the subsidy, the patients would only be given one egg a week and no meat at all, end quote.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So the rationing is very serious. The hospital's latest shipment of eggs came a few months back in February. It contained 6,700 pounds of frozen yolks divided into two gallon containers.

[B]

I didn't know you could freeze yolks. And I don't.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Like it.

[A]

Do you think they look like little ice cubes with yellow circles? Aww, that's cute. With some orange juice.

[B]

Little cocktail. Nice cocktail.

[A]

The thing is, and I did. I'm gonna say this as a person who grew up in the egg basket of the world. At one time, Petaluma, California, were all about the eggs there. I just don't really love interacting with eggs. No, in most ways, I know what you mean. Yeah, you said it yourself. But I'm gonna jump right on that bandwagon and pin it back to my hometown. Okay, so these frozen yolks are stored in the basement in storage rooms with the rest of the hospital's food supply. This night, dinner served at 5:00'.

[B]

Clock.

[A]

As usual, it's delivered to rooms and in the dining areas across several wards. They're far apart from each other, but connected by a tunnel system. But as soon as people start eating their d, it's clear something is wrong. These eggs taste funny. And some will describe them as salty. Other people will describe them as soapy. You know, the. I think I've had food poisoning twice. The taste that I always tasted was metal.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Have ever had that?

[B]

No. Like, what kind of food was it?

[A]

Like one time it was a Chinese chicken salad.

[B]

And it was like a penny.

[A]

Yes. It was like there was weird metal in there, but it's not like tangy. Yeah, but almost like someone poured a Lacroix across my Chinese chicken salad in that way where it's like. That doesn't belong. That's not a food taste.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then count down, count it down. So in one section of the hospital, a nurse named Ali Wassell is so uneasy about the taste, she orders all of her patients to stop eating these eggs. Everybody in the ward. Even still, many people do eat the eggs, even just a bite or two. And then within minutes, they begin complaining. Leg cramps and nausea that are intensifying as each second passes.

[B]

Leg cramps, leg cramps. That's scary.

[A]

I've got egg leg cramps.

[B]

Like food poisoning. That goes to, like, places that aren't your gut or your system. Yeah, it's like your fucking leg.

[A]

Yeah, that's like in the blood. Ew. Okay, egg hands. I have pain. Some start vomiting blood and others stop breathing and their faces turn blue.

[B]

Holy Shit.

[A]

Within an hour of dinner being served, one person is. When doctors and nurses show up to help, they're immediately overwhelmed by the massive number of people. And that number is in the hundreds needing immediate treatment. So it's just like everybody in the room. The smell, the smell.

[B]

Scrambled egg vomit.

[A]

The screaming.

[B]

Sorry, everyone. I'm trying to make this. I'm trying to really like build a picture.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Build a world.

[A]

This is what we do on this show, right? So we world build with words.

[B]

Powdered scrambled egg white vomit. Sorry.

[A]

We're gonna call this the brunch episode. Okay.

[B]

Okay, go.

[A]

Five hours later, 10 people are dead.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

Yep. By 4 the next morning, 40 staff members and or patients have died.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

By Thursday evening, the Death toll hits 47. Nurse Ali Wassell's ward is the only one with no victims. She actually ends up getting sick from the one bite of eggs she took. When she then went was like forks down.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But she does recover. The hospital morg is small. It can only hold a few bodies at a time. So victims have to be laid out in hallways and in the on site chapel until outside mortuaries from around the entire state come and take the bodies away. So based on the symptoms, it's immediately suspected to be a mass poisoning. Fear washes over an already anxious public as newspapers begin reporting on this tragedy. Toxicologists test both the victim's stomach contents and these eggs themselves. But the frozen yolks were distributed by the federal government itself as a part of a wartime food subsidy program and sent to institutions all throughout Oregon and across the country. So the genuine fear that these eggs have been deliberately poisoned by enemies of the United States to terrorize Americans begins to take hold.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like it looks like either they're trying to make it look like the government's poisoning their own people or, or whatever. So before more harm can be done, Oregon's governor orders all Oregon based beneficiaries of this federal subsidy program to stop using frozen yolks immediately. The federal people are like, I can't please just one bite. I love them so much.

[B]

But what will I have for dinner?

[A]

What will I have for my noontime snack? The federal government then makes a similar order and starts testing its surplus eggs for toxins or poison. Meanwhile, scientists from the army, the FDA and the American Medical association are dispatched to Salem, Oregon to assist local pathologists in its investigation. And all of this happens within about a day of the tragedy taking place. So immediately, people are a lot of

[B]

people to die overnight from food poisoning.

[A]

And it is what an Opening scene for our movie. Because holy shit. You're the doctor and the nurse flirting, kind of interested in each other, kind of cute. I'm not sure. Walking, talking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hey, what do you think of the top 20 hits of the 1940 40s? How about this war come around a corner?

[B]

This is the plot of the movie Airplane that you're talking about. And I love that movie.

[A]

Unfunny Airplane, but same amount of eggs.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The scientists quickly confirm the eggs were laced with a huge amount of sodium fluoride, which is lethal to humans even in small doses.

[B]

Oh, I thought they were just bad. They were fucking laced. Laced, shit.

[A]

And basically sodium fluoride is rat poison. And roach poison of course. Like a state run hospital like that has plenty of rat and roach poison on hand. So the investigators also determined the eggs were contaminated during the cooking process. Meaning any other program using the same government subsidized egg yolks can rest easy because theirs are fine.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Drink away, defrost and drink away friends. So the mystery is now centered squarely inside the Oregon State Hospital kitchen. And investigators want to know how and why this got cooked into a scrambled egg dinner. 70s, like don't serve people this food. Every member of the kitchen crew is interviewed, but investigators don't get anywhere. None of the kitchen staff admits to knowing anything. And investigators worry that the trustees testimonies are complicated by the fact that they're also psychiatric patients.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

But then five days after the poisoning, a 64 year old assistant cook named Abraham McKillip cracks. He reveals that.

[B]

Is that a pun?

[A]

Oh, oh, I didn't even think about that.

[B]

Wow, that's good.

[A]

I mean, cracks bad to me. Cracks. Pokes his little beak out of the

[B]

shell, cracks like an egg.

[A]

He reveals that on the night of the poisoning, he was prepping the scrambled eggs and he realized that he needed powdered milk for the recipe. But he was so busy he couldn't step away from the line and go get it for himself. So he asked one of the patient trustees, a 27 year old named George Nosen, to go downstairs and grab the powdered milk for him. And then Abraham gave the patient his key to the storage rooms downstairs. This was a break in protocol. Employees are forbidden from giving patients their hospital keys.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But George Nosen was a very trusted trustee in the kitchen and Abraham needed a hand. So they're understaffed three cooks. And also George had been down to the basement food storage area before. So this was something he had done and was used to do so he could Be trusted to do it. But here's the problem. What George did not know was that there were two food storage rooms in the basement, both open with the same key.

[B]

Mm. Mm. One said poison on it and one said food on it.

[A]

Poison. Food. Food. I mean, it's. This is. This is one of the worst and saddest crazy mix up stories.

[B]

So he didn't purposely kill a bunch of people?

[A]

Absolutely not. Absolutely. So when he went down to get the powdered milk, he unknowingly went into the wrong room, which is such a mind fuck. Like this idea that without your knowing, there's a whole second room that you could have gone into.

[B]

Yeah. But even then, it's like, it should say fucking poison on it. Fuck. It should say fucking poison. Right.

[A]

It should say fucking poison. Yes, you're exactly right. And keep that bookmark that idea for later. When George looked around in that second room that he thought was the first room for the powdered milk, he thought he found it in this big unlabeled vat sitting right next to all the other food. It was white. It was odorless power. He scooped out several pounds of it, as requested.

[B]

It said power instead of powder.

[A]

Did I really? It's almost over for me. And thank you for everything. It's been nice. It was white, odorless powder.

[B]

Sorry, leave that.

[A]

No, because I don't want to say white power. For fuck's sake. God.

[B]

Okay. I mean, you say it all the time.

[A]

No, don't tell me that. It was white, odorless powder. And he scooped out several pounds of it as requested, and then headed back upstairs, handed it over to Abraham. And around six pounds of that poison was mixed into the eggs. State police would later say that just two pounds of this powdered sodium fluoride would be enough to kill 2,000 people. And the fact that it was so potent probably saved lives because it caused the people who ate it to immediately vomit the poison up.

[B]

Right. And it tasted so fucking weird. Sodium. Whatever the fuck. So salty or soapy or whatever.

[A]

Yeah. Jesus. Do you immediately be like, as opposed to my delicious powdered milk eggs? Abraham admits to the investigators that he put two and two together very quickly. Once diners started showing symptoms. He told the hospital's head chef, Mary o', Hare, hey, Mary. And they retraced George's steps into the basement. And they figured out he mistook the white powder that was cockroach poison for powdered milk. But they were too afraid to come forward right away. So both Abraham and Mary are arrested. So they were right to Be afraid George is not arrested. Rumors swirl that they carried out the poisoning intentionally. It was a terrorist plot of some kind. But then a grand jury investigation proves that to be a baseless rumor. And that considering how stretched thin all the hospital staff were, an accident like this was bound to happen. Because of the staffing shortage, Oregon State Hospital has been operating without a staff dietitian. And that's the person who usually is in charge of storing and labeling the things in the basement.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you cut costs and you cut corners. That's what starts happening. So that's likely how it's possible that a gigantic vat of cockroach poison would wind up sitting unlabeled next to real food that's also unlabeled. So because of these staffing issues, it's impossible for Abraham and his colleagues to do their jobs without relying heavily on the patient trustees, who are not trained as actual staff. And we're not told the details about the second food storage room.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the end, the grand jury does not bring any criminal charges against assistant cook Abraham McKillop, head chef Mary O', hare, or George Nosen. And it's easy to assume that all three of them were fully traumatized for life by this entire event, for sure. In fact, the grand jury makes a very practical recommendation to state lawmakers about the need for legislation requiring all poisons to be explicitly labeled. So exactly what you're saying. And the grand jury takes this opportunity to issue a damning report about the Oregon State Hospital itself and the impossible responsibilities of an overwhelmed staff. This goes far beyond the kitchen staff and far beyond wartime staffing. It also involves incredible overcrowding and consistent underfunding by lawmakers, which then feeds into the staffing crisis. According to the book Inside Oregon State Hospital, in this era, one daytime staffer cares for 16 patients at a time. Think of it. Too many think of that as like two tops in a restaurant. You have eight tables of people who need a lot of help.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

But at night, there's only one staffer for every 150 patients. That's just general staff. There are only eight doctors for more than 2,700 total patients, which means, inevitably, employees are going to rely on things like restraints and confinement more often than. Than if there were practical patient to caregiver ratio.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it's basically this situation is worst case. Expectedly, there's also a ton of employee turnover, with one stat showing, quote, 108.68% turnover in staff from 1940 to 1942 alone.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Everybody's like, bye.

[B]

Fuck this shit. This is horrible.

[A]

In the wake of this horrific event, national laws are passed requiring that poisons be manufactured with clear warning labels. It seems so obvious.

[B]

It does.

[A]

There are also noted increases in funding and staffing at American public hospitals. But the poor reputation of American mental health care institutions persists. By the 1950s and into the 60s, there's a growing movement to replace institutionalization with community based mental health care, allowing patients to live more normal lives while they get outpatient treatment from doctors and psychiatrists. Given all the horrible stories from psychiatric hospitals, this is seen as much more humane approach that's conducive to better care. In 1963, President Kennedy actually signs the Community Mental Health act that's geared in part to establishing these types of community mental health care centers across the US and that's one of the last pieces of legislation that he will sign before his assassination. But in the decades to follow, and especially during the Ronald Reagan era, much of the funding meant to create these centers is slashed and Kennedy's vision is never fully realized. And it's often pointed out that Kennedy was drawn to this issue because of his sister Rosemary's devastating lobotomy, which Georgia covered in episode 259. So public psychiatric care is so seriously underfunded in this country that jails and prisons have now become de facto ill equipped, untrained and unwilling mental health providers. And while policies vary from state to state, we are not in a particularly progressive era when it comes to this issue, particularly at the federal level. And in fact, I would say that is a sarcastic understatement. That is, it's probably about as bad as it could be, right? So just months ago, Trump's DOJ cut $88 million in grant money for mental health and substance abuse treatment services and training. Which is interesting because Republicans, after every mass shooting, always, always say, we need mental health services.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Talk about that all the time. And then they cut the funding. And then in mid January 2026, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services administration slashed around $2 billion in grant money for these services. And of course, Trump's big, beautiful bill cut federal Medicaid funding by 15%. That's just some of the cuts to the mental health services in this country.

[B]

How are we going to go to unnecessary war who don't have money from people who actually fucking need it?

[A]

It's so blatantly obvious now that I don't think it can be an argument anymore. When we just strip money out of schools, children don't get to have air conditioning or crayons. Mental health facilities have no staffing. And yet here we are in a war in the Middle east that no one understands why we're there.

[B]

Right. No health insurance. Children are starving.

[A]

Food is more expensive than it's ever been.

[B]

Right. The cost of living is just constantly going up.

[A]

It's beyond. And it's creating a pressure cooker for people with mental health issues as well as everybody else.

[B]

Yeah. You should point it at me when you said that. But.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

But you're not wrong.

[A]

I'm like, for example, I meant that was the middle of the table. That was an a C. I swear.

[B]

I don't mind it. Give it to me, please. I'll take it. I'll be the spokesman person.

[A]

You're like, can we please have some money, Please? Can we? This horrible event, the Oregon State Hospital poisoning, is a reminder of the stakes of indifference and neglect when it comes to our national health care. As JFK actually said back in 1963, quote, the situation has been tolerated for too long. It has troubled our national conscience, but only as a problem unpleasant to mention, easy to postpone, and despairing of a solution. We can procrastinate. No. We must promote to the best of our ability and by all possible and appropriate means the mental and physical health of all our citizens. End quote. And that's the story of the 1942 poisoning at Oregon State Hospital.

[B]

Wow. And your mom had never talked about it or anything like that? You hadn't heard about it?

[A]

No, no. But I mean, I wonder if she would have learned about it. You know, just for the kinds of things that can happen if you are going into a field where they're used to having their funding cut.

[B]

Totally. I'm sure. Sure. I'm sure.

[A]

And there's a real good picture that I think you'd like. Cause it's basically one of the.

[B]

Is it me?

[A]

It's you. Representing all mental health services. It's just that really good picture of a victory garden that when they used. They used to do posters. And I think it's like, it's so timely.

[B]

There it is. It's such a good picture, right?

[A]

It's grow your victory garden. It counts more than ever. We need those.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We need to feed ourselves. We need to feed our communities.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Need to take care of each other.

[B]

There's a really good book.

[A]

Is it written by Zach Alfenakis?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Why does zachalvanagis have to do with this?

[A]

No, his gardening show.

[B]

Oh, right. It's called the Lost Girls of Willowbrook. You know Willowbrook State Hospital in Jersey that we talked about where Cropsey's from? It's an old school book. It's a book where a girl goes to find her missing twin sister and gets committed cause they think it's her. It's like the 70s and it's, it really explains how awful the experience is in there, like firsthand. This girl. It's called the Lost Girls of Willowbrook by Ellen Marie Wiseman.

[A]

Oh, I want to read that.

[B]

Highly recommend it if you just like want to get in there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

See the reality.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

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[A]

Goodbye.

[B]

Great. Great job.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Horrible story. Yes, here's great. Well, this one's got a little bit of A light in a dark room kind of story. We're gonna do it in honor of Women's History Month.

[A]

Wonderful.

[B]

I'm a woman, I'm a History Month. This is the story of a woman who in her early 20s, put herself at great personal risk to save the lives of more than 150 Jewish children in Nazi occupied Holland. This is the story of Marion Pritchard.

[A]

Hell yes, let's get right into it.

[B]

Let's go from fucking World War II to World War II, right into that

[A]

World War II vibe. I just. Anytime we talk about these people, it's very exciting. But it's also that kind of like we should be talking about what people did during World War II all the time. Because we need to know the rise up energy.

[B]

That's right. So the main source for this story is a three hour interview with Marian from 1998 conducted by USC Shoah Foundation. And the Shoah foundation was established by Steven Spielberg shortly after he completed Schindler's List. Did you know that it started out by collecting the testimony of Holocaust survivors, but has expanded to testimony from survivors of events beyond World War II. And the rest of the sources can be found in our show notes. So Marian Philippe van Binnsbergen is born on November 7, 1920 in Amsterdam. Her mother Grace is English and her father Jakob is Dutch. He's a judge coming from a long line of judges on his family's. And so Marian has what sounds like a very happy and idyllic childhood. And as a child, Marian is oblivious to any amount of anti Semitism that exists in the Netherlands. She's not Jewish, she doesn't really pay attention to it. Although once when she's jumping rope and singing a jump rope song, her father tells her to stop singing it because it's insulting to Jewish people. So they're a little bit progressive, the family. But still. Marian will find out later, decades later, that at this point in time her father does belong to a bridge club that doesn't allow Jews, which I think is pretty normal for the time. So antisemitism is certainly around, even if Marian isn't particularly attuned to it. She does vividly remember Hitler's rise to power, which happened in Germany around the time she was in middle school. In her interview she says, quote, the general Dutch attitude was this clown can't last. Nobody thought that even if he came to power that that would last. Last. End quote. Heard of it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What she does notice is that after 1933, more German, Austrian and Polish children start showing up at her school because their families have fled to the Netherlands. Around seventh grade, Marian is sent to a British boarding school. But her father brings her back to Amsterdam for high school because he thinks the academics in England are not rigorous enough. And then she attends a very academic Dutch high school. And at school, Marian is aware that some of her classmates are. Are Jewish because they don't attend school on Saturday. But other girls come from much more secular families. So Marian isn't even aware of the true number of Jewish friends she has until once the Nazis occupy Holland. And then Ali wrote note to Georgia. Holland is a region within the Netherlands, and Amsterdam is within this region, but there are parts of the Netherlands that are not Holland. Appreciate you.

[A]

I don't think we'll ever solve the mystery of Holland.

[B]

Marian says that her father belongs to what would have been considered a fairly conservative political party in the Netherlands. But in many ways, her family, particularly her father, are quite progressive. For example, Marian studies ballet. And at ballet school, she meets several men whom she knows are gay. And when Marian brings this up with her father, he tells her that everyone should be treated with respect.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. Which is very progressive.

[A]

Yeah. Back.

[B]

By the time Marian's 14, she decides that her ambition in life is to become a psychoanalyst. She has an older friend who is a nurse in a psychiatric hospital. Hey. Parallels. And learning from her friend makes her want to study psychology. So when she's about 19 in 1940, she enrolls in a social work school in Amsterdam. And she makes this conscious decision not to go to medical school, which is what she'd need to do, because by this point, the Nazis have already occupied the Netherlands. And in order to enroll in medicine, she would have to swear a loyalty oath to the Nazis. She doesn't wanna do it, so she goes to social work school instead.

[A]

That's really creepy to think that that was. That's how they infiltrated everything. Like, what does that have to do. Why would you have to swear an oath to Nazis to go to school?

[B]

Because you're only going to work for the master race, you know, like God. Yeah. Do no harm. Doesn't really exist anymore.

[A]

Yeah. You know, they etch that off. They're just like more sneaky snakes or snakes. Snakes around a pike.

[B]

Snakes around everything.

[A]

We love snakes.

[B]

We love snakes. The Nazis had invaded the Netherlands in May of 1940, as, you know, four months before Marian had started in social work school, but they did not deport the Jews of the Netherlands right away. And Marian points out in this interview that one of the Reasons for this is that the Nazis wanted the help of the Dutch people. And the Dutch people didn't really have deep currents of antisemitism yet. I mean it was obviously there, but compared to other countries in Europe, it wasn't as hardcore. And so even though there was anti Semitism, the idea of deporting, not to mention killing their Jewish neighbors was not really palatable to many of the Dutch. So they started slower there around 1941. Marian believes that Dutch Jews and Jews from other countries who have fled to the Netherlands should make plans to leave or go into hiding. She's noticing how bad it's getting. Her friends tell her she's crazy that it's never gonna get that bad in the Netherlands. And Marian's father is convinced that it is going to get that bad. She says, quote, my father's one of the few people that read Mein Kampf from beginning to end. It's awful dull reading. I tried end quote meaning like he fuckin saw the writing on the wall and in the book. Yeah. So at this point, Marian is around 20 years old. And her social work courses include one day a week spent doing fieldwork. So Marian is assigned to a compound of little houses where families are sent by a judge to, to live. Generally if the father is an alcoholic and can't function, the families are sent to these little houses. Marian and her fellow students usually help out here by doing activities with the kids. Deportations of Jewish people are beginning to happen around Amsterdam at this time and they're told that they're being deported to work camps and that families will be kept together. But this is of course not true. One day a police officer tips off the head social worker at Marian's field assignment that a Jewish family in that compound was where she helps the children was going to be arrested and deported that night. And so the social worker, the head social worker asks each of the social worker students, including Marian, to take home a child from that family. Knowing that what's happening when they get deported is not good and it's not what they're saying it's gonna be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that night Marian shows up at home with a little two year old boy.

[A]

It's just the stress of like even just thinking about babies and my own niece were just like, here, take a two year old for the day.

[B]

From their family, from their family. The family doesn't know they're ever gonna see them again.

[A]

Yeah, nothing's familiar. The tension is right there. And then just like tend to that child totally.

[B]

Cause people are, I Mean, it's just like ice. It's like you can imagine the same thing happening right now. Be like, take this kid home because their parents might never be heard from again. And they will be part of that unless you take this child home.

[A]

I mean that happened to people. That is happening to people. That did happen to people where like little kids sat at home alone because their parents were taken and go. And they were just like sitting in a house by themselves. Sitting in an apartment by themselves.

[B]

So her parents are completely on board with this and they take care of this little boy for months. Marian's father understands that the boy must be kept hidden. But her mom doesn't totally understand the severity and is less secretive about housing the boy. She like mentions it to the milkman, who luckily doesn't say anything. But Marian is very aware via the Nazi controlled newspapers that citizens are given a $5 reward for turning in their Jewish neighbors and any neighbors that are hiding Jewish people. That in today's money. $5 in 1941 or so, but also in Dutch money. I'm not going to make you do it unless you. 300, 110. And they also warn Dutch people not to aid their Jewish neighbors or that they too will be deported. So it's not a slap on the wrist if you are trying to help hide Jewish people. You're just treated like, you know, yeah, everybody criminal.

[A]

Yeah, everybody goes down. Also that idea that people. Cause it's wartime. Like I was just talking about where it's. It's the rationing. $5 is so much money.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

But if you plant a victory garden, you are not as desperate.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, if there's a potato to go around, you don't have to take that money.

[B]

My grandma, you know, lived in the fields in Poland for the first seven years of her life because they burnt down her village in the pogrom. So she was like the. The youngest of five or six kids. And her mom would work at the potato farms during the day and steal a potato. They'd eat the inside of the potato for dinner one night and the next night they'd eat the skins of the potato. And that was what they survived on the whole family for seven years. Yeah.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

And then one of her brothers would steal a horse from. He was like a really charming kid. He'd steal a horse from one side, like the German side, and then sell it back to them the next day. Like. Yes, they survived somehow.

[A]

You have to.

[B]

Yeah, good. Okay. So one day around the spring of 1942, when Marian is 21 years old. She's riding her bike to class when she passes a home for Jewish children. These are children that had been brought from Germany into the Netherlands to protect them from the Nazis. And now they're being deported, most likely to a transit camp in the Netherlands and then Auschwitz. Generally at these camps, children under 50 are just killed when they arrive immediately. They can't work elsewhere. In Amsterdam, Anne Frank's family will go into hiding a few months later, in the summer of 1942, when she and her family are eventually discovered and arrested, they are sent to this transport camp and then to Auschwitz. So these children who had left their home countries and their homes are now being rounded up in front of her face. So Marian, of course, doesn't know any of this yet, but watches in horror as she sees Nazis throwing children onto trucks by their arms, their legs. One little girl by her pigtails, Marian says, quote, I'm sitting on my bike, not believing my eyes. There's two women coming from the other direction and they tried to stop the Nazis and they picked the women up and threw them on top of the kids and drove off. And that was when I fully consciously decided that this was it. End quote. So at 21 years old, Marion decides to be formally involved in the hiding of Jewish children from the Nazis. Marian points out that, quote, most rescue in Holland was not organized, it was individual effort because the fewer people who knew, the better, end quote. The two year old boy that had been living with them had eventually been moved to another family. And Marian doesn't want to bring home any more kids to live with her family because of her mother's mouth. Mouth.

[A]

Her mother not getting it, it sounds like.

[B]

Yeah, it seems like that's what happened. So at first, Marian's main involvement is to help shuttle Jewish children. She wants to still do something, even though she can't hide them in her own house. So at first, her main involvement is to help shuttle Jewish children Amsterdam to families who can keep them hidden. She and other young women carry the kids around on bicycles, mostly in broad daylight, because to any observer, it would look like a mother and a child, their own child. On multiple occasions, Marian secures false papers for Jewish babies. She takes them to City hall on what she describes as a, quote, mission of disgrace, end quote. And pretends she's an unwed mother and that the children are hers. So she has to show up and be shamed and just admit to being an unwed mother just so she can get these children papers, which is like,

[A]

you know, incredibly Badass, right?

[B]

For months, this is how Marian helps. Shuttling children back and forth to families that can house them. She estimates that she works in some capacity on the hiding of about 150 Jewish children. Then, in December of 1940, a friend asks Marian if she will live with a Jewish man and his three young children. To help keep them hidden, they move into a house outside of Amsterdam, which is at the time unoccupied, but belongs to a relative of the friend who had connected Marian with the family. So the father of this family is a man named Fred Pollock. And his children are lex, who is 4, Tom, who is 2, and Erica, who's less than a year. And their mother, Edwina Moore, is only half Jewish, but has papers that seem to obscure that fact. So she's able to move freely. And she's actually a major figure in the Dutch Resistance. But the father and the children are all known to be Jewish, so they have to hide. So Marian basically lives in this house. And friends of hers in the resistance build a hiding place under the floorboards of the living room for the by day. It's covered with a rug and a coffee table. And so the family's just able to live in the house. But if they need to, the family can hide in this space. So Marian practices getting everyone in there so she can do it in less than a minute. Like it just has to happen really fast. Yeah. So Marian's friends also leave her with a loaded revolver, just in case. Marian hides it on a shelf behind the bed she sleeps in. And about a year passes without any incident. And then one evening, Marian hears the engine of a car approaching and. And she knows that this means it's Nazis because local Dutch people ride bicycles. So she quickly gets the family into the hiding place before opening the door to three Nazis and a Dutch police officer who is now a Nazi collaborator. Fucking narc. After not finding any Jews in the house. Cause they're all in the hiding place, they leave. And so Marian has the family stay hidden for another half an hour. And then she lets the children out and feeds them and puts them to. And just thinks that they.

[A]

They're gone.

[B]

Thinks that the Nazis are gone. But then that Dutch Nazi collaborator comes back and quietly lets himself into the house through an unlocked back door. And you've gotta wonder. So he comes back alone, without the official Nazis. Is he thinking there's a woman alone in this house or is he thinking she's hiding Jews? Jewish people we don't know, but clearly fucking nefarious.

[A]

Yeah, clearly there's something to be exploited here. And he's here. Exactly.

[B]

So Marian hears him, and without stopping to think, she grabs the revolver from its hiding place and intercepts him before he walks further into the house to discover where the children are sleeping because we're not in the hiding place anymore. When they come face to face, before either of them can say anything, she shoots and kills him. She says, quote, I couldn't think of anything to do but shoot him. End quote. Marian is 23 years old and she's just killed a man. And she has absolutely no idea what happened. But her good friend, a gay Jewish ballet dancer named Carol with a K, is being hidden in the garden shed in the house next door. He has dyed his hair, has a fake id, so he's able to move somewhat freely around the village. And he hears the shots and runs over to her house to see what happened. She tells him what happened, and he says, I'll help you. I've got a plan. Marian says, quote, if it hadn't been for, we would have been in serious trouble. So this guy hears the shot and he's like, let's take care of this. Yeah. So essentially, he goes into the village, wakes up the baker who he's friends with, and then he and the baker go to see the local undertaker. Sounds like a nursery rhyme. Meanwhile, they're all doing this after Nazi imposed curfew. So it's dangerous, even if he hadn't been Jewish. But he is. And so in the morning, as soon as the curfew is lifted, the baker comes over with his wagon, loads the Nazi's body onto it, and then he brings the body to the undertaker. And I wonder how many times this happened. The undertaker puts the body of this Nazi police officer into a casket under another man's body.

[A]

Sorry, I had to jump on that, but it's so satisfying. How many?

[B]

How many?

[A]

And that idea that, like, there is something to be done within these insane circumstances, which is stick together and make a plan together, Right?

[B]

What can you do if you're not the undertaker, you're the baker and you have a way to transport the bar, like you can do something.

[A]

Yep. And everybody has a kind of part, these parts to play.

[B]

Right? So the Nazis buried that day with the other man and nobody is the wiser. Marian says, quote, the world at the time did not neatly divide up into perpetrators, victims, bystanders and rescuers. The delivery man wasn't actively involved in the resistance. The mortician wasn't actively involved in the resistance. And yet when asked, they Cooperated, end quote.

[A]

Because they know good from bad. I mean, it is such a clear thing. Difficult if you are on meth, which many people were apparently right. And difficult if you get brainwashed by this idea that you need to feel superior to something else. But yeah, everybody else is looking at it, going, yeah, if there's men picking up children by their pigtails and throwing them to the back of the truck, the men are the bad guys. Not the two year old, totally kids with the pigtails.

[B]

As for the Dutch Nazi collaborator, the guy she killed, it sounds like he had been disliked by everybody to begin with.

[A]

Yeah, he's a fucking Nazi collaborator.

[B]

But it doesn't seem like even the Nazis looked for him.

[A]

He wasn't one of them. He's.

[B]

Nobody goes looking for him. So no one goes and looks into it.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Marian and the Pollock family lived together in the house for about another year until the war. So it doesn't seem like the story comes to light until later when Marian starts speaking about her experiences in the 80s. So that was just kept a secret? Yeah. Glad she talked about it. There were about 140,000 Jewish people living in the Netherlands. And about 28,000 of them went into hiding during the war. Of that 28,000, about 12,000 were ultimately decided. In hindsight, we can see that people underestimated the dangers of presenting themselves to the Nazis for deportation to what were described at the time as labor camps. So it actually overestimated the dangers of going into hiding.

[A]

Yeah, Almost like that mentality of, it'll just be easier if you do what they want.

[B]

Right. Why didn't you cooperate? You should have cooperated.

[A]

I think we've all learned that lesson at this point where it's cooperation is the big mistake. And that's what why they say that.

[B]

That's why can't cooperate with fucking liars.

[A]

Yeah. Your resistance is crucial.

[B]

Yeah. Of course, hiding was also extremely dangerous. But the odds of survival were better. This could not have been achieved without people on the individual level like Marian stepping in to help in whatever way they could. Marian points out that the parents who gave their children up to be hidden were making the most wrenching decision possible and were not even completely sure if it was the right one. She says, quote, the greatest rescuers of children were the parents who gave them up. End quote. I mean, there's so many stories from that time, Kindertransport and all this.

[A]

They were like people who would smuggle the Jewish babies out of the slums. Were they called the ghettos? Yeah, the ghettos where it's like a guy would go in to fix a pipe and they would stick a baby underneath it. I mean, like, those kinds of things are just like, thank God for those people.

[B]

My other grandma's friends from Warsaw. I mean, so bananas. After the war, Marian works for the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration as a social worker in a displaced persons camp in Germany. These camps were where survivors and refugees were housed until they could reconnect with any other surviving family members. It's just so crazy that, like, basically when the camps were. What's the word?

[A]

Broken up, like invaded.

[B]

Liberated.

[A]

Liberated.

[B]

When the camps were liberated, a lot of the prisoners had to stay there and live there because their homes had been given away or their entire families were murdered. Yeah. They had to stay there until they could figure out what to do. A lot of that is hence Israel. Like, it's just such an insane, extreme. Extreme.

[A]

What an experience. Like, what a. Yeah.

[B]

So basically, they had to live there. And there is where Marian meets a U.S. army officer named Anton Pritchard. And they thought. And get married at the camp.

[A]

I know when life is that extreme, like, something growing out of such incredibly dark, tragic times is the most beautiful. I mean, that's like the human experience, right?

[B]

Yeah. Marian and Anton moved to New York, where Marian goes back to school to become a psychoanalyst. And she works at a renowned children's psychiatric hospital in the northern suburbs of New York City for much of her career. She also goes on to teach at Clark University in Worcester, Massachusetts. Thank you to Ally for putting it phonetically. Which is known for its highly regarded psychology program. She's educated new generations of mental health professionals, many of whom ultimately choose to go into the field because of Marian. One colleague says, quote, not only did she save lives during the 1940s, but she continues to save lives today through her influence. End quote. So yay. From mental health professionals.

[A]

Yeah. And leaders.

[B]

Yeah. And Marian dies in 2016 at the age of 96. Wow. Her family writes an obituary about her, detailing her accomplishments in World War II. But this is the anecdote. They end with saying, quote, marian Pritchard was loving and caring with family and friends, an involved and conscientious citizen, and a person of great courage and compassion. On one occasion, an adult niece and her husband arrived at her home, frazzled from. From a long trip with four restless children. One of them asked, is there life after children? Marian calmly replied, life is children. End quote. And that is the story of Dutch resistance hero Marion Pritchard.

[A]

Wow. I don't I mean, I feel like I've heard versions of that story or, like, the fictionalized versions of that story, but I love hearing the name.

[B]

Yeah. So that's for Women's History Month and for how fucked up the world is right now.

[A]

Yeah. Really? Marian? She was doing it. She didn't give a shit.

[B]

No, she did give a shit.

[A]

She did give a shit.

[B]

You have to give a shit.

[A]

You have to give a shit. You have to make the baker give a shit. You have to make the undertaker give a shit. You have to organize them.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And then save some people.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

It's not a tall task.

[B]

I mean, be a decent human being is all we're asking.

[A]

Just save some children. Focus on children.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

For once in your life.

[B]

Life.

[A]

Well, that was a. That was a very deep episode that we just did.

[B]

I didn't expect that. That was a very, like, moving episode.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good job, you guys.

[A]

Hey, listeners, handle it. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye.

[B]

Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie? This is.

[A]

This has been an exactly right production.

[B]

Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

[A]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[B]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[A]

Our researchers are Marin McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[B]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com

[A]

and follow the show on Instagram at my favorite murder.

[B]

Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

And now you can watch my favorite

[B]

murder on Netflix and wait, you're there. Hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye. The Internet loves to say go touch grass as though lawns aren't a constant source of stress.

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