528 - In a Business Way

Summary

My Favorite Murder – Episode 528: "In a Business Way"

Release Date: April 16, 2026
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Karen and Georgia deliver a blend of chilling true crime and classic MFM banter. The pair discuss the latest true crime updates, share listener stories, and dive deep into two captivating mysteries: the infamous 2006 disappearance of Brian Shaffer in Ohio, and the bizarre legend of the Van Meter Visitor in early-1900s Iowa. As always, they infuse dark subject matter with warmth, wit, and compassion—making it the perfect episode for both new and veteran Murderinos.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Show Reflections and Podcasting Trends

[01:45–03:19]

• The hosts riff on the podcast’s evolution from focused true crime to a more relaxed, conversational show.
  • Georgia: “Would you say it's devolved?” (01:56)
  • Karen: “Yes, in some ways I think it's devolved. Terribly.” (01:58)
• Discussion about the odd feeling of seeing themselves on TV as podcasts become increasingly video-focused.
  • “It's fun and great as long as you don't watch yourself.” – Karen (03:22)

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True Crime News Updates

[03:35–06:17]

• Gilgo Beach Serial Killer
  • Major break: suspect caught and pled guilty to seven murders, admitted to an eighth.
    • “He has been formally charged with the murders of seven women... There's not gonna be a trial.” – Karen (04:02)
  • Reflection on the relief for victims’ families and the case’s continued mysteries.
    • Quote from Suffolk County DA: “This case closes and another opens. There are still bodies on that beach. There are still bodies in Suffolk County. There's no rest for the weary.” (04:32)
• Ted Bundy Case Update
  • DNA evidence officially links Bundy to a cold case victim in Utah, providing closure after decades.
    • “They are officially closing Laura's case. And I mean, like, yeah, give her her fucking respect.” – Georgia (05:52)
  • “Good news in the bad news realm.” – Karen (06:08)

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Lighthearted Banter: Jelly Beans, Food Nostalgia & Mercury Poisoning

[06:20–08:24]

• The hosts have fun discussing bizarre KFC-flavored jelly beans, childhood food memories, funeral potatoes, and vintage kitchenware.
• Georgia jokes about consuming lead and mercury as a child:
  • “I would lick it like I licked mercury as a child. And here I am today.” (08:09)
• Transitioning to video podcasting and health quips.

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Exactly Right Network Announcements

[08:27–12:02]

• Updates on new podcasts and notable episodes (e.g., Disgraceland, Bananas, I Said No Gifts, Trust Me).
  • “We are still celebrating our newest addition... Jake Brennan and his true crime music pod Disgraceland.” – Karen (08:36)
• Merch Corner: Proceeds from new whistles benefit the National Immigration Law Center.

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Main Story 1: The Disappearance of Brian Shaffer

Georgia’s Story
[14:56–38:44]

Introduction

• Georgia covers the haunting mystery of Brian Shaffer, a medical student who vanished from a Columbus, Ohio, bar in 2006.
  • “This is a story that is very familiar to those of us who lay awake at night scrolling Reddit and scrolling missing persons clickbait articles.” (15:14)

Timeline & Facts

• [00:16:00]: After a stressful semester and his mother’s death, Brian goes bar-hopping with friends.
• [01:15am]: Brian, his friend Clint, and their friend Meredith Reed return to the Ugly Tuna Saloona bar.
• Surveillance footage shows Brian enter—but never shows him exit. Last seen talking to two women outside the bar at approx. 1:57am.
• Friends assume he left on his own; he doesn’t make his planned Miami trip with his girlfriend Alexis.

Investigation & Strange Details

• No activity on Brian’s bank accounts or credit cards.
• All known exits monitored by cameras—no footage of Brian leaving.
• Some theorize he left through a dangerous under-construction service exit.
• Scent dogs trace Brian’s scent to a nearby Wendy’s and possibly an abandoned building.

Theories & Unsolved Status

• Accident, foul play, or voluntary disappearance are all floated.
  • “I feel like there's a simple explanation. I don't think it's some big conspiracy...” – Georgia (38:53)
• Mention of the Smiley Face serial killer urban legend and the limitations of cell phone pings circa 2006.

Impact on Family

• Brian’s father Randy was dedicated to the search until his tragic accidental death in 2008.
• Alexis, Brian’s girlfriend, searched for over a year before moving forward with her own life.
  • “It almost feels like this all happened to someone else.” – Alexis, quoted by Georgia (37:59)
• Derek, Brian’s brother, continues to hope for closure.
  • "We still continue to hope and pray to have answers someday..." – Derek Shaffer, 20th anniversary statement (38:44)

Notable Quotes

• “It's the best news in the worst situation possible.” – Karen, on the Gilgo Beach update (04:32)
• “He just disappears into thin air.” – Georgia (25:42)
• “Can you imagine that... you're just going to keep trying? Cause nothing else is working.” – Karen, on Alexis calling Brian’s phone (29:21)
• “There's nothing there.” – Karen, on the lack of evidence for foul play (39:13)

Timestamps of Key Moments

• The bar and disappearance: 17:22–26:20
• Theories and family search: 26:32–38:44

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Main Story 2: The Van Meter Visitor

Karen’s Story
[41:50–70:15]

Introduction

• Karen shares the early 20th-century legend of the Van Meter Visitor, a cryptid said to have terrorized Van Meter, Iowa, in 1903.
  • “This is the story of the Van Meter visitor.” (44:06)

Events & Sightings

• Multiple respected townspeople witness a bizarre creature with bat-like wings and a glowing “horn.”
  • Bright lights, terrible smells, and the creature’s resistance to bullets are consistent features.
  • Tracks (plaster-cast, now lost) are allegedly found.
• Mob of townspeople eventually stonewall the abandoned coal mine believed to be the creature’s lair.

Theories

• Possible explanations: mass delusion, prank, misidentified animal (large bird), or deliberate hoax.
  • “If that were true, then they'd know who was doing it because the one was 8ft tall.” – Karen (61:44)
• Comparison with other mysterious creatures, e.g., the Jersey Devil and Mothman.
• Some locals embrace the mystery, leading to the annual Van Meter Visitor Festival.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “Men are so hysterical. It's like, calm down, dude.” – Georgia (51:21)
• “We were real. Kill first, ask questions, later generation.” – Karen (50:35)
• “It's a love a cryptozoology fuckin and also one that's like what if there were dinosaurs?” – Karen (70:18)
• Playful debate about which 1901 “handsome bachelor” of Van Meter they’d pick as their time-travel boyfriend. (66:21–66:48)

Timestamps of Key Moments

• First sighting (44:04)
• Monster description and town panic (55:45–59:33)
• Mob at the mine and end of sightings (59:33–61:16)
• Theories and legacy (61:16–70:15)

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Listener "Hoorays" and Closing

[73:03–77:00]

• Continuing the recent tradition, Karen and Georgia share uplifting listener submissions celebrating personal victories (e.g., health recoveries, top surgery dates, surviving adversity).
• “I've remembered who I am. I love that.” – Georgia (74:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We are a result of mercury poisoning. Two camera. Two camera.” – Karen (08:20)
• “He ate with that light coming off his head. So Sidney is the witness who gets the best look at this creature of anyone…” – Karen (55:47)
• “If the Gilgo Beach serial killer can get found… this person can get found.” – Karen (38:46)
• “You can have both. Don't have to pick. Fucking monogamy is out in the nineteen oh threes.” – Georgia (67:11)

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Summary Table of Main Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | Main Content | |--------------------------------------|--------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | Podcast banter & crime updates | 01:45–12:02 | True crime news, network/merch updates | | Disappearance of Brian Shaffer | 14:56–38:44 | Ohio cold case deep dive, theories, family impact | | Van Meter Visitor legend | 41:50–70:15 | 1903 Iowa cryptid, sightings, skepticism, legacy | | Listener hoorays/closes | 73:03–77:00 | Uplifting audience stories, kind sign-off |

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The episode is classic MFM: dark but empathetic, offbeat, and bubbly, with an easy rapport that lets humor lighten harrowing topics. Karen and Georgia don’t simply recount crime—they connect emotionally, question sources, and create a supportive, curious space for the macabre. Importantly, they spotlight community, closure for victims, and the need for justice—even (and especially) when answers remain elusive.

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Stay Sexy and Don’t Get Murdered!

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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My favorite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstark. That's Karen Kilgariff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is a podcast where we started out talking about true crime. Now it's a bit loosey goosey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Would you say it's devolved?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, in some ways I think it's devolved. Terribly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, terribly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, de evolution. You know, let's just go for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let it go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We are Devo. No, we're not. We are not Devo. It's my favorite murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're a podcast. Yeah, but we're also on tv.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. And we know how fucking weird that is these days.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's weird for all of us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's weird for me. I finally watched a little bit of When I was alone, which is always a bad thing. And I was like, let's just see how we look. And I turned it on and I immediately went to the Internet and bought a posture like harness that looks like

[Karen Kilgariff]

does it hook to the back wall. It just keeps you up like a dog.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like a dog harness.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like a dog being washed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Yeah. I fucking can't even. And I also got a new hairdresser.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're podcasters at heart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I wonder what it's gonna be like in the next few years with podcasting and video. Like you kind of have to do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For the kids.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it's like. Or then the alt people will stay audio only. They will moralize about it like it's better and you're a better person because of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whatever. That always happens.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we don't have any opinion. We're just being told what to fucking do. By big podcasting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

By big podcasting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you know how much we love to follow rules.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and also it's. We want to be up with the times, doing what the kids do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's fun, I think, until you watch yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fun and great as long as you don't watch yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just don't look. Pretend it's not happening. Do you have anything? Anything good? Anything bad? Are you reading that book Burnout that I gave you out of my pocket like that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm too tired.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Out of my purse and hand it to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're like, here, someone do something. I do have some good news. And it's a true crime update. Start doing those again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But this one's huge. The Gilgo beach serial killer has been terrorizing that part of the east coast forever. I mean, it feel since the 90s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't believe late 80s finally caught him. Those are so satisfying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They caught him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They caught him and he pled guilty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Incredible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's not gonna be a trial. He has been formally charged with the murders of seven women. Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy, Amberlynn Costello, Maureen Brainard Barnes, Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, and Sondra Castilla. And he also admitted to killing an eighth victim, Karen Vergata, but he wasn't formally charged with her murder as part of his plea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Y. I mean, thankfully, those families aren't going to be put through that trial. Like, what a. What a fucking monstrous thing to go through after losing your family member in such a horrible way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, yeah, it's the best news in the worst situation possible. There is a quote from the Suffolk County District Attorney, Ray Tierney, though, and he said, quote, this case closes and another opens. There are still bodies on that beach. There are still bodies in Suffolk County. There's no rest for the weary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yve. Yeah. And then there's also some Ted Bundy news.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's the Ted Bundy news?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, so a victim of Ted Bundy's has been officially tied to him. One of those ones that's been suspected since the beginning. In 1974, the body of 17 year old Laura Ann Amy was found by hikers in Utah's American Fork Canyon. She'd last been seen months earlier leaving a Halloween party in. In Utah county where he was a fucking, what was he, a college student at the time?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh yeah, that's right. He was going to become a lawyer, right? Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And just before his execution, Ted Bundy admitted to murdering her. But there was no hard evidence to support it until very recently. Forensic DNA testing of case evidence has now allowed investigators to build a genetic profile that they say links Bundy to Laura's murder. So on April 1, Utah County Sheriff Mike Smith said they are officially closing Laura's case. And I mean, like, yeah, give her her fucking respect, you know, and her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dude, it's been such a long time. I think that is incredible. I'm sure that the relatives and friends and family thought it was never gonna happen or that they wouldn't get answers

[Georgia Hardstark]

and like, yeah, that wouldn't matter anymore. But it's like it does. We're still thinking about it all the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good news in the bad news realm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally good news in true crime world. Like that's. You're not gonna get a fucking Lisa Frank stationary moment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's not what they do there. That's not what we do here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

True crime news. And sometimes we eat weird flavored jelly beans.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's something else to look forward to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If we find out about them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, tell us about, tell us in the comments, guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, you're saying KFC is making jelly beans?

[Georgia Hardstark]

My sister sent me a photo of a bag that the kids were so stoked on. It was like fried chicken flavor, mashed potato flavor, and like coleslaw flavor. I think we're corn niblets, right? No one orders that, do they?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it. Buttered corn?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, it's like watery. Yeah, it's so watery.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just like my mother's cooking dry chicken. Weird watery corn and some minute rice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Vince made funeral potatoes the other day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ooh, were they good?

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were so fucking good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were given a funeral potato kit when we went to Utah, Salt Lake City that time, years ago, because we

[Georgia Hardstark]

didn't know what they were. Yeah, it was good. He like used frozen cubed potatoes, like a can of cream of chicken soup. And like just all the cheese you've ever seen, and it was all bubbly on top.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I burnt my tongue and then cut up potatoes like child.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause you ate them the second they got out of the stove. It must have smelled amazing. That's all of my mother's cooking was based in Campbell's soup. In some way we gotta bring it back, right? Cause it's so easy. Can of cream of chicken, can of cream of celery, you're off to the races. That's sauce.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pack of onion powder or like ranch

[Karen Kilgariff]

and a half a cup of wine

[Georgia Hardstark]

in your mouth while you're cooking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Drink that, pour some in, toast some

[Georgia Hardstark]

almonds, and then you don't care what it tastes like. There are people on Instagram, I'm sure on TikTok that are like, here's me making like a classic meal from the 1970s and they make like shit on a shingle or they make like fucking casserole with, like, the actual vintage kitchenware, which, you know is my fucking weak spot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All lead based and everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you love lead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love lead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so delicious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I would lick it like I licked mercury as a child. And here I am today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look. Look at you. Didn't hurt you medically.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Video podcasting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We are a result of mercury poisoning. Two camera. Two camera.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm fine. I don't have a uterus anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fine. Who needs it? All right, should we talk about this network? Yeah, because things are happening on this network.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stop it. It's crazy. We have a podcast network called Exactly Right Media.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's been quite a week. We are still celebrating our newest addition to the ERM family. Our friend Jake Brennan and his true crime music Po Disgraceland is here on erm. We're so thrilled we are. His newest episode, which you can go check out now, is all about Grace Jones. If you don't know her, she's a legendary 80s icon. Her life collided with crime and scandal and she had to fight to protect her reputation. Of course, she was a powerful, incredible looking woman of color in the time where it was blonde women only. And it was incredible. I remember seeing her on TV and just being like, she has a crew cut and the best cheekbones I've ever seen in my life. What's happening?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I can't wait to listen. And then over on Bananas, Kurt and Scotty are joined by Pooja Mehta. They cover octopuses getting extra cuddly on ecstasy. Aww. I wanna be on ecstasy with an octave you will.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You will.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When the lead wears off, paragliders narrowly avoiding a polar bear enclosure. And people who can mentally time travel. I fucking just read about that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What is it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

They have such good memory that they can put themselves there. Yeah. Like, literally be in that moment. And I think that they can also tell the future what's gonna happen in the future too, because they understand correlation so much better than most people because they actually remember, oh, I burned myself that one time. Don't do that again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's an incredible gift.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Imagine that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To not reburn yourself a thousand times. Meaning psychologically, it's called dating. Have fun, go back, try it again. Then over on I said no gifts. Bridger tries to stay calm when the greatest of all, our friend Martha Kelly. You know her from baskets, you know her from Euphoria. She shows up with a gift. Anyway, of course they get into a gigantic fight. And also storm chasing broken air conditioners and fighting for joint custody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love that there's a generation of young people who are scared of Martha Kelly because her role on Euphoria.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is so terrifying and so perfect. And she almost plays the same character as in Baskets, but it's the most intimidating.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Martha, I don't know if everybody knows this is one of the greatest standups.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you go watch her live, it will blow your mind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's why it's so funny that they're scared of her. Like, yes. Like people on the Internet are scared of her. That's fucking badass.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so good. Over in Merch Corner, we've got brand new whistles. Do you need a whistle? For whatever reason you might need it, because we've got politeness and we've got wheat Woo. Two whistles that you can buy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Keychain whistles. They're so cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Proceeds from both of these whistles benefit the National Immigration Law center, so you

[Georgia Hardstark]

can order [e-mail] so this is more

[Karen Kilgariff]

big news, which is very exciting, but this is almost like circumstantial. So we have a cult podcast here on ERM called Trust Me. Now there's a new cult documentary on Netflix and it's called Trust Me, the False Prophet. It's not associated directly, except that Lola Blanc, who is the host of our Trust me. Her mother, Dr. Christine Marie, is featured in this documentary because that's why Lola hosts a cult podcast. She was raised in this cult. And Christine Marie was the first guest of Trust Me. So you can now go on Netflix and watch Trust Me, the False Prophet. Doc. And when you're done with that, come on to erm. Go on to Trust me. Go listen to episode one and you get every possible part of the story you would want.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, I'm first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have been waiting to tell you this story for a long time. I don't know why I haven't done it yet. It's just I haven't put my glasses on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I like the build of that. Where you're like. And now I'm going to. Are those new?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cute.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. This is a story that is very familiar to those of us who lay awake at night scrolling Reddit and scrolling missing persons clickbait articles. And it takes place in Ohio, which is home to many, many cases we've covered. Ohio gives and gives.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, it does. In a horrible way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It does. And on any given day, around a thousand Ohians are missing. According to data from the Ohio Attorney General's office, there are a thousand people a day missing in Ohio.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're not new every time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just like it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The consistent count. Is that high?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's very high. So today we're going to talk about one of those missing people. One of those. And due to eerie surveillance footage that's kind of hard to fully reconcile, this story has become more of an urban legend, ending up on those late night doom scrolls about mysterious disappearances. But unfortunately, it's not an urban legend. It's a true tragic story for one Ohio family in the mid-2000s. This is the story of the disappearance of Brian Shaffer. Okay. Do you know yet what I'm. You'll know when I explain. Do you see that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What did it look like?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. I can see everything now. Look like a cat hair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your vision is too good. So good. You're like, can't read. Did you see that? It was an atom. Is Brian Schaefer the guy who Left a party and they found like a canoe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm like, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because that was on true crime bullshit. Because it was about a potential Israel Keys victim.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. There is a similarity there. Like, I think you're close knowing what it is. So the main sources I used for the story are an article in Columbus Monthly by April Johnston, one from Mel Magazine by Kirk Pepe, and one from the Columbus Dispatch by Mike Wagner. And the rest of the sources are in the show notes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so your eyes are a little bit bigger with those glasses on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Does it look insane?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not like Jerry Seinfeld in that episode, Silly wearing the weird glasses. But it just. When you went like that, you were just like, ugh. It's like, is it weird?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel I'm self conscious that you

[Karen Kilgariff]

don't have perfect vision.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm getting older.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. We're falling apart on Netflix.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Truly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right. This is serious. It's the wee hours of Saturday, April 1, 2006. April Fool's Day. We're at the Ugly Tuna Saloona. Oh, that's what it's called.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a popular college bar at the edge of the Ohio State University campus. You know those like blocks? Like there's so many in Austin that we've been to or Nashville. Yeah, we just walk and there's just like bar after bar, kind of interchangeable just for college kids to get drunk cheap, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Although it isn't really a safe area either. So three second year medical students have been bar hopping around town, blowing off steam because they've just finished their final exams. Med school, of course, is extremely high pressure and stressful. But for one of these students, 27 year old Brian Schaeffer, it's been a particularly awful few months. So just three weeks earlier in March, he lost his mom, Renee to cancer. Then he had to just pivot and turn around and take his exams. His medical exams.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The same thing happened to my mom when she was taking her nursing test, her RN licensing test. Her dad died. Like the day. Either the day of or the day before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you just shut it all down. You do what you gotta do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it does seem like Brian's ready to take a break from this stress. And that's what this night is about. On the night of March 31st. So before first, he goes out to dinner with his dad, Randy. Then he meets up with his friend Clint, Florence. He'd also invited his brother Derek to come out too. But Derek and His wife were at a comedy show and they went home afterwards. So let me tell you about Brian. Everyone's like, he's an ordinary normal college student, but he's also like this beautiful, charming person. This is Brian and his dad. Oh yeah, so that's Brian. He's like good looking. He looks like a cross to me between a young Tony Hawk and John Mulaney. Do you see that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So yeah, he's like a good looking, he's fit, he's smart, he is nice and friendly and is, you know, pretty normal person.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Brian and Clint start off at the Ugly Tuna Bar. And just before 10pm, Brian calls his girlfriend, fellow second year medical student Alexis Wagoner. She's a few hours away in Toledo, staying at her parents house, but she and Bryan are planning to go on a trip to Miami together. I think for spring break. They're supposed to leave two days from then and they're both looking forward to it. According to many people who tell this story who were there, Brian is planning to propose to Alexis on this trip. So he's just, you know, in the prime of his life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So shortly after this call, Brian and Clint start going bar hopping. They stop at seven other bars and they take a shot at each bar. And I guess I asked Vince like how many shots would make you shit faced?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause I think I heard somewhere that they had like 11 up to 11 shots. I mean, and I'm like, well you know, he was like 6 foot 2 and big. Is he gonna be drunk? And Vince is like, fuck yeah. And you're drinking a beer at the same time. You're not just going in and having a shot. You're like, that's speculation obviously.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But no, that makes sense. Also the more like just thinking I'll talk about myself. The more shots I took and then beers, I backed with it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The more I was like, well, it's fine, I'm fine, let's keep going. So you'd like, once you're over eight, it's mayhem.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're making all bad decisions. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No shots. That's my rule.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shots just get you to a whole different place that you kind of can't plan for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no. So they presumably become very drunk. And then along their bar crawl route, Brian and Clint meet up with a friend of theirs, a woman named Meredith Reed. And towards the end of the night, Meredith drives everyone back to the Ugly Tuna. They end up back there at 1:15 in the morning. And so the Ugly Tuna is actually inside a bigger indoor complex Kind of like where the Alamo Drafthouse is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, you go up the escalator and there's like the bowling alley there, the Drafthouse there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the indoor complex is called the Gateway, and it has a movie theater and some stores and offices and some university housing. So the entrance to the Ugly Tuna is inside and up an escalator on the building's second floor. So surveillance footage from that night shows Brian, Clint and Meredith riding up on the escalator and then entering the bar. So that's the three of them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so they know for a fact they were there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They see all three of them. There he is going up into the bar. He's corroborated that he is there. Yeah, you can see the escalators and right outside the entrance of the bar, but you can't see the actual doorway of the bar. And there's no footage from inside the bar, but it's clear that three of them walk back in. And then we never see Brian leave, ever. So at about 1:57am Right before the bar is scheduled to close at 2, Brian is just barely visible on the surveillance footage, standing outside the Ugly Tuna talking to two women casualty. According to some accounts from that night, Bryan was maybe flirty. That's again, speculation. And you can't really tell much from CCTV footage, like body language.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you have some beers, that's what everyone's doing. Fun times, good times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It might mean nothing. So people. And there's so little to go on in the story that people just cling to things and make up their own stories about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're trying to figure something out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. So the women go back into the bar, they use the bathroom, they leave, and they don't see Brian again. Meanwhile, Clint and Meredith, who are back in the bar, can't find Brian as they're all planning on leaving when it's closing. It's unclear if Brian went back into the Ugly Tuna or if he elsewhere in the complex after talking to those women, but he definitely did not leave the complex via the escalator. That is in view of the security cameras. The cops, like, combed this video footage after the fact and he is not in it. Wow. Clint doesn't know that. And after looking for Brian and calling his phone, he assumes Brian had just Irish goodbyed and gone back to his apartment, which is very close by. And so they leave.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And if it's a complex like that, there's plenty of other exits. No, there's not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. We'll get to that, but also, like, I feel like 2006, it's not like we were texting each other constantly. Like, you would have been like, yo, I went home. You call if he didn't pick up?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Much more stuff was assumed. Like, it was just like, you're not there anymore. We had a plan, but you must have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And he's a grown. It's not like he, you know, is a woman. And you're worried about them getting home safely in the same way you are about a dude just walking away and going home. It's, like, not that big of a deal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it sounds like a very intelligent,

[Georgia Hardstark]

but also really drunk. So that's a little worrisome, but what are you gonna do? All day Saturday and the next day, Sunday, no one seems to be able to get in touch with Brian. Alexis, his girlfriend tries several times, but no one's answering his phone. He's not returning her calls, which is unlike him. And so the next day is Monday, and Brian and Alexis, this is when they're scheduled to leave for their trip to Miami. From what I've read, Alexis is just like. He's. Something happened to his phone. I'm just, you know, everything's gonna be fine. I'm just gonna meet him at. I bet that's what's happening. So she goes to the airport, and he doesn't show up, and he misses his flight. And that's when Alexis and Brian's father contact the Columbus police and a missing person's case is opened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a horrible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just sitting there, waiting to see his

[Karen Kilgariff]

face sitting there, like. Because you get that thing, you know, in the very much, much, much smaller version where you're kind of like, no, it's like it's all just gonna come together and it's just gonna work. And this will be. This is the final chance for him to. He'll just get out of a car. Here we go on vacation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There'll be an explanation, and we get a move on. And you're just waiting with, like, kind of in the back of your head, knowing that it's not gonna happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not realistic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So Brian's dad, Randy, goes over to Brian's apartment. Nothing seems out of place. His bed is made, his books, textbooks are all there. Police find that Brian's bank account and credit cards are untouched. You know, there's. Of course, in the beginning, people are like, he must have just taken off on his own. And there's that trip to Miami. Like, maybe he just, like, fucking left town. Was there already Right. So very early into the investigation, police get that surveillance footage from outside the Ugly Tuna Saloona. God, I don't wanna say that anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it doesn't answer any questions. He just. It appears that he just disappears into thin air. There are other ways out of the building. One of them. They don't really make sense. One of them's like a back door. And I think there is video footage of that, but he's not in it. And then one is like, the building was under construction. So there is a service door leading down to a construction site outside of the building. That exit is covered with plywood. You kind of have to climb down through a shaft. Like, why would he go that way?

[Karen Kilgariff]

But if he's super drunk and he could have fallen or, you know, an accident.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he could have possibly fallen, gotten hurt. But the area is searched in. Bryan is not found. And other businesses in the Gateway building have cameras. And the buildings around the Gateway also have cameras. But as far as we know, Brian never shows up on any of the security footage. He just goes up into the fucking bar and disappears. And I've always imagined him, like you said, still in there, having fallen somewhere. Do you see that? Recently, like a woman got stuck in her crawl space and died. And she'd been missing for years and years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's happened. I think we did a story about that one time too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where it was like a fireplace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The fireplace one. I think there was a Rock Club one too. Which is so rare. It's like just the oddest thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they would have smelled something. And they did a. I mean, they did multiple thorough searches, it seems, of this entire complex. But who the fuck knows?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I tell you? One theory just popped into my head. Cause if these other stores had cameras, and if somebody that was in one of those stores was involved, then they could have gone and like erased the camera.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or they're like, oh, sorry, our cameras erase every day or something. Totally. And covered their own tracks. Just that it's not freestanding. It's like there's other places and other people that are kind of set there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And like this is what we're doing. Right? Theorizing, kind of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And there's a total possibility that he is on the surveillance cameras. And we just. It doesn't. It hasn't. I can't imagine it hasn't been connected. But who the fuck knows? Weirder things have happened. Sergeant John Hurst of the Columbus Police. He's the lead detective on this case. He believes that this is the likeliest route that Brian took out of the building, that he left through the shaft, wound up in the construction site, and left the construction site or was taken from it. One more interesting detail that Hurst says is that dogs tracked Brian's scent from the construction site to a nearby Wendy's, like across the street, then possibly to an abandoned building. And then they lost the scent completely. We've also heard the stories of drunk people ending up in dumpsters and those getting emptied. I mean, that's such an awful fucking thought, but. Or he got. Maybe got beat up and put. I mean, this is clearly just more speculation than ever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's all you're left with. Yeah, it's all you're left with.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So this area of downtown Columbus where the Gateway building is, is known for having a pretty high crime rate. And so part of the reason the Gateway was built was for the university to establish kind of a safer area for students to hang out. But again, this also means that there are cameras pretty much everywhere and no trace of Brian is seen on any of them. A massive search effort expands outward from the Gateway center with Brian's friends, family, and Alexis girlfriend all working tirelessly to search the nearby Olentangy River. And also they check every dumpster, but it had already been a few days before he was reported missing. And no sign of him is ever found. Alexis calls Brian's cell phone every day. It always goes straight to voicemail. Except. Except one time, several weeks after Brian's disappearance, it rings once.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you imagine that idea that this is the last connection and you're just gonna keep trying? Cause nothing else is working. And the people who are supposed to be helping you or solve it can't do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's no answers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so then you have this one way and that's just like the only thing you can hold onto.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then it rings and you're so desperate. You also are like, if he left me and doesn't wanna be with me anymore, good. I just need to know what happened, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So like, yeah, it fucking R. And Brian's cell carrier believes it was just a glitch and not Alexis making an actual connection with Brian's phone. It's 2006, so it's so hard to tell. And that said, in the 30 days after Brian's disappearance, his phone pings several towers around the Columbus area. It's that telephone ping thing that we got in serial that like, does it make sense or does it. Is it just a fluke? Is it an accident?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, as we do in these things where we take conjecture from the things we've learned from the media. So my thing is like Law and Order where it's like, well, someone found the phone on the ground and it's their phone now for a little while

[Georgia Hardstark]

and then they ditch it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And it's not connected and it's not that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But like, if that person came forward and said where they found the phone, it would help so much more than them getting in trouble for stealing a lost phone. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but they already stole something and they don't know why, how important it would be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They don't, I don't think. I feel like someday in the same way DNA, we're able to like read it better. I think the pinging phone thing is gonna make more sense one day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Although I wonder if it's gonna be able to be useful for old cases like this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What I hope is we someday get rid of these fucking phones and let's just go back to long form letter writing. I think it's best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's great. I love it. And this is one of the biggest mysteries of the case, as is the elevator footage. All calls to Brian's phone go straigh suggesting that the phone had lost battery or was turned off. But if it was pinging towers, it would have to be turned on. And some people, Redditors, a lot of redditors believe this must mean that someone had Ryan's phone and it was periodically turned on like we said. So in 2007, it wasn't possible to pinpoint the phone's exact location, though I wonder if someday it will be or if it's just such like old technology at this point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it'd be great if it could happen and it'd be great if we could focus on things like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. You know, and the case attracts tons of attention of. He's also a musician who is actually considered becoming a musician as his career before picking medicine instead. He's a massive Pearl Jam fan and he has a Pearl Jam tattoo, the stick figure from the art.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how I know this name really well. Cause Pearl Jam started talking about it, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Eddie Vedder learns about the case and talks about it at a show in Cincinnati. That's the tattoo. Yeah, stick figure. So he dedicates a song to Brian and this brings even more attention to the case, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to turn out up any fresh leads. So, you know, there's the theories. Some people believe that Brian died accidentally in the construction site, and there was some conspiracy by the developer or the local government to cover up his death, but, you know, not wanting to lose funding or stall the project somehow. But it seems like a lot of trouble to go through in a very quick time and a lot of people to be complicit in doing that. I don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There'd be one guy who'd be like, I'm not. No. Another theory that comes up again and again in this case, and really when any young man disappears on a night out in the Midwest, is that this could be the work of an unknown serial killer who some people call the Smiley Face Killer. Not. Except for. From the Happy Face Killer. Believers in the smiley face killer theory. So we don't even know if there's an actual serial killer out there. Note that young men, often drunk, have disappeared from many college campuses, particularly in the Midwest. Often they're eventually found in bodies of water near campus. And often a spray painted smiley face has been found somewhere on the banks of the river.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it all might just be a coincidence.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. And yet then you kind of underlay that with the Israel Keys story where we had a serial killer who was intentionally crossing state lines and driving all over so he could kill people randomly or make it look random.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that's the unfortunate thing. It's just like that. Because that. I remember trying to do the Smiley Face killer on this show and it's just. It is like. It's a ton of the same story and so frustrating. Cause it's like. And then he disappeared. Or then he was found dead in this water. But graffiti near a horrible accident is not uncommon. Totally trying to lace all that together, but at the same time, it's already happened that way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Israel Keys is the proof that this could be happening. Other people could be doing it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Right. It's not impossible. No such smiley face has ever been found on the banks of the Olentangy River. The FBI has always maintained that there is no such killer and that the presence of the smiley face graffiti is just a coincidence.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry. They say the same thing about Lady Bird Lake.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. We're not doing that. We're not gonna believe the FBI.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sounds good. Ever again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ever again. Another theory is that Brian. Brian did leave the bar under his own power. That he changed his clothes and put on a different hat so he wouldn't be recognized in the footage in the surveillance video. And then people point to Brian's grief over his mother's recent Death. That apparently Alexis asked him to, quote, go away. Just go away with him. That maybe he had been planning to run away. But why would he. You know, it just doesn't seem likely that he would have put his family through that all this time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. And did he just graduate from medical school or is about to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He just finished his exams for that year or for that semester.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do all that work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And all years. And then you're just like whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's least it seems like that's bumped down to the lower percentage of possibilities.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And then his credit cards and money is. Aren't touched ever. Like you. You'd never hear from him again. Sounds kind of impossible. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Intentionally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he was close to his family. After all they'd gone through with their mom. It just seemed really out of character for him. People said.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Brian's dad, Randy and his brother Derek work tirelessly to try and find Brian or any clues that could lead to finding out what happened to him. At one point, Randy, the father consults a psychic who says Brian is in the Olentangy River. Says he was caught in a whirlpool by a specific peer. Like gives him all this information. This grieving father. Randy puts on waders and goes out to this spot and almost gets sucked into a whirlpool under the surface himself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So sad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's just fucking so sad. It gets worse. In the year after Brian's disappearance, Randy never lets up and is constantly calling Brian's friends. He calls Alexis and the police to discuss any possible developments. Like he just dedicates himself to finding out what happened to his son. Then In September of 2008, there is a powerful windstorm in the town where Randy lives. And Randy's trying to clear some debris and a large branch falls off the tree and kills him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ugh. This poor family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Like the poor. The brother who suddenly lost his entire family within two or three years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. So in the years since, though, Derek has taken a step back from the case, understandably trying to protect his mental health.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know. And Alexis spends a year also trying to search for Brian. Manning the tip line, participating in physical search and still calling his phone every day. And about a year later in 2007, she tells herself she needs to stop for her own sanity. And I mean, not stop, but just not become. Be so involved and be her entire life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Just focusing only on this tragedy over and over every day. Which I'm sure in the beginning was like a way to get up and out of bed and dedicate yourself to something. But.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but it's years of not finding any clue.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then about six months after that, her mom introduces her to a contractor named Eric. They fall in love. He's very understanding. And they ultimately get married and have two sons and settle down in Toledo, where Alexis works as an obstetrician now delivering babies. She doesn't believe in any one theory. She tells the Columbus Dispatch that she's kind of numb from that time in her life. And she says, quote, it almost feels like this all happened to someone else.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Cause it's just so strange and took

[Georgia Hardstark]

up so much energy and effort of your life, and then you had to walk away from it and just pretend that everything moved on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You had no choice but to move on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. This month marks the 20th anniversary of Brian's disappearance. The case remains open, and the Columbus police say they still receive tips and pursue all leads. Wow. In a prepared statement for the 20th anniversary of Brian's disappearance, his brother Derek says, quote, every day we think about Brian and can't believe it's been 20 years. We still continue to hope and pray to have answers someday and wish that anyone who knows anything would come forward. And that is a story of the mysterious and tragic disappearance of Brian Schaeffer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Hey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If the Gilgo beach serial killer can get found and arrested years and years later, totally, this person can get found.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like there's a simple explanation. I don't think it's some big conspiracy. You know what I mean? It's just simple and not nefarious. Maybe because the ex detective is gonna write a book about it and they haven't ruled out murder, but it's like, you can't rule it in either because there's nothing there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What an incredibly frustrating story you've just told me.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

I know you hate it, but I

[Karen Kilgariff]

really love that you did it. The fact that it's the 20th anniversary and that it's that kind of thing where it's like missing persons, where everyone just puts their hands up and it's like, why haven't we established governmentally, like, huge cold case teams or missing persons teams, where it's like a dedicated group of people and that's their job and so that the family doesn't have to do it and it's not left to the people who are hurt the most by it. Wow.

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

We were just talking about this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I've been using the Maybelline Instant Eraser concealer for years, I think. Yeah, the convenience of the little spongy swab at the top. Yeah, you just dab dab dab. And it's just enough so that you don't overdo it with your concealer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And mine is the pink, the 160, which is the pink color correcting. So it like brightens up your under eyes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm immediately using it. Find your shade of Instant Eraser concealer at your local reach. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great one. I also have a bit of a mystery story to tell you today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's a real left turn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very different. And it's one of those ones I'm excited to tell you about. It begins on Tuesday, September 29, 1903.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what? That is the turn of the century. My favorite time. And we're in a small town, Van Meter, Iowa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's around 1am and a man named Ulysses G. Griffith is heading home after a long day of work. Ulysses. Ulysses is in his mid-30s. He runs a farm equipment business. Such a different time. And the business requires him to travel all around the region. He often makes it home quite late. And we assume he's traveling in probably a horse drawn wagon since it's 1903. And of course he's exhausted. It's a lot of long, slow travel. So he rolls onto Van Meter's main street. And then he sees something incredibly strange. There's a bright beam of light coming from the roof of a nearby cutting into the nighttime sky. So this is 1903. We are in rural Iowa. It's a darkness that none of us really understand anymore. Before the rural electrification act. Yeah. So some towns did have electricity, but it was usually when people had it in their homes, it was people with money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it took a while for everybody to get it evenly. So this kind of like spotlights and things. No one's seen that before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Most towns like this in America don't have street lights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Or if they do, they have gas lights and they're probably out by then. Like that time of night. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. We have a picture of Van Meter just to get the sense of. Oh, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, right. Small turn of the century town.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Train stops through it. It's big enough to have its own train stop.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, huge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But not big enough to have its own newspaper.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're right in there. And then just in the background, no lights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's nothing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Ulysses is baffled, of course. He's just staring at this bizarre sight, trying to figure out what he's looking at and where it's coming from, when suddenly the light jumps to another rooftop. And then it jumps again. And then it vanishes into the darkness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is this an alien story?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll see.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is such a small town and an incredibly tight knit community. So for, of course, word of Ulysses experience. Is that the plural of Ulysses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ulysses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ulysses. Ulysses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ulysses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Word of this strange experience spreads very quickly, but no one knows what to make of it. And luckily, Ulysses is described in old county records as, quote, among the leading men in town, both socially and in a business way, and uniformly respected. End quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we don't think he's bullshit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Or an old drunk tractor salesman who's just like, what's that up there? It's like it's the moon. Ulysses, people of Van Meter know him as an even keeled honest man who is not one for practical jokes. Still, there is no explanation and there's really no way to find one. So time passes and life just kind of continues on. And it seems like that strange sighting is just a one off oddity. But if that were, I wouldn't be telling you about it right now. This is the story of the Van Meter visitor. So the main sources used today are articles from the Des Moines Register archives, a book by Chad Lewis, Noah Voss and Kevin Lee Nelson about the topic, and a mini documentary from Iowa PBS entitled Spooky Van Meter Visitor. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So I'll tell you a little bit about the town. Van Meter, Iowa is situated along The Raccoon River, 20 miles west of Des Moines. So it's technically a suburb. And to this day it still has that small town feel like it did in the early 1900s. But of course, the 1903 Van Meter is totally undeveloped. And you saw that picture very remote. The i80 has not been constructed, but trains do pass through the town. And that local train station that you saw is a major source of. Of business and life in this small town. Van Meter is also an important Midwestern shipping stop for everything from lumber to farm goods to coal that's mined out of a local mine there in Van meter. But by 1903, that mine went out of business and it sits on the edge of town, a creepy and abandoned remnant that's in a state of disrepair. So Ulysses sees the strange sight at 1am on Tuesday, September 20th. The rest of that day unfolds normally until late that afternoon when a thunderstorm rolls in and the town's doctor, 25 year old Fred Alcott.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone's a baby in this story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Middle aged man, right? Middle aged, 25 year old.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. He's like. He looks like Wilford Brimley, 25. So he's working a normal day, seeing patients all day long. And like many business owners in Van Meter, he keeps an apartment behind his office. So between the day's bad weather and the sun setting around 6:30, Dr. Alcott's not planning on going anywhere that night. It's too dark, it's too rainy. So he just goes home, goes to bed and falls asleep. So sometime around 1am now it's Wednesday, September 30th. A bright light shines through Dr. Alcott's bedroom window, lighting up an otherwise pitch black room. He's jolted awake. He jumps out of bed. He thinks someone's breaking into his office. So he reaches for his gun and he rushes outside. But what Dr. Alcott finds when he gets out into the store is incomprehensible. Just steps away from him, there's an impossibly bright light shining from what looks like a horn on the forehead of a large creature with bat like wings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, that wasn't where I was going. I was going leprechaun. I don't know why. Don't ask me why.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You just felt that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but. So we're talking about a winged horse, unicorn type creature.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, there is a horn and there are wings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where did I get horse from? Just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're a good writer. Terrified, Dr. Alcott lifts his gun and starts firing at this thing. Just fire at it. Just shoot it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just gotta shoot a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You saw, it was a time where they had just settled this area. Shooting things was the solution to almost everything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, has anything changed?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, hello America, what's up? The problem is his bullets have no effect on the creature. So he runs back into his office, he locks the doors and windows, and he barricades himself inside until the sun rises. So just like the first time, word of Dr. Alcott's encounter spreads very quickly through Van Meter. It's like it happened again. People running up and down the street. So because this has happened within a 24 hour period, people start getting very worried. And it's also from an equally dignified, well respected member of town. But this time he's not just claiming he saw a light. He's claiming he saw a monster. So as the sun goes down that night, the people of Van Meter are on edge. A clerk at the town bank named Peter Dunn, in his mid-20s, has an idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everybody so young.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Peter Dunn has an idea in his mind. These lights and winged creatures feel like real people that are being misidentified by panicked witnesses or exhausted witnesses. And he's worried that they actually are criminals who are trying to target the bank and steal everybody's money. So he decides.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mr. Make it about himself. Mr. Main character over here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly right. He's like, all of this is bank related. It's me, the 23 year old banker of town. So bravely, he decides to stand guard over the money all night long. And later on, Peter will go on to earn himself a very widely respected role in the town of Van Meter. He manages the bank after that. He holds several city offices. Including becoming the mayor. So he's of sound mind. He's not the type to lie. But what happens is next sounds very far fetched. So at 1am On a cloudy Thursday, it's October 1st. Now, Peter claims he hears a weird noise coming from just outside the bank. He says it sounds like, quote, someone strangling.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hmm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like a weird choking, choking, strangling sound. So he takes his shotgun, he races outside. Right? The rule.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have you seen this Is reminding me of this tweet rip that says, I'm sorry, but my friends and I would have smashed E.T. with a hammer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We would not have taken him home and fed him. And I was like, oh, shit. We were feral. We would have done the same. We would have dissected him to be like, I wonder what it is. We just beat it with a hammer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were real. Kill first, ask questions, later generation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's really what America kind of is at its heart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Poor Lily.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Poor E.T.

[Georgia Hardstark]

he found the right guy. At least in a really bad movie. Steven Spielberg would have been like, what are you doing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This movie is 32 minutes long. We're gonna get him. We're gonna have him land, get discovered. And the kids on that cul de sac circle up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So Peter races to a nearby window to see what the hell this sound is, knowing that it could be the thing that everyone is worried about. And he goes and peers out into the darkness. But when he presses his face to the glass, an intense light immediately sh. Shines right into his eyes and then it goes out. So we can safely assume Peter was dazzled by that light.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Men are so hysterical. It's like, calm down, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God, stop crying. You've got your big gun. So he's like, whoa, what just happened? He keeps looking out. He's trying to see if that light comes back on. But now he sees as his vision kind of comes back. The light is bouncing around on the street in front of the bank. We can assume with spotty vision and feeling absolutely terrified, Peter tries on the light. As it's moving, he thinks he can see something under the light, but not very clearly. He ends up describing it simply as, quote, a great form of some kind. So he panics. He raises his shotgun, he fires right through the bank's window, blowing out the glass. But the light vanishes. And once again, everything is dark. He stays inside that bank until sunrise. Now, with a broken window, good job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He can get right in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's called. Here it is. Open it. So when it's finally Light. He goes and tells everybody what he saw. The area surrounding the bank is searched and according to old reports, a set of quote great three toed tracks are found nearby and captured in a plaster mold.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you have the photo of it? It's like I'm thinking duck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That mold has since been gone missing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Of course it has.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's no. I know. But yes, it's almost like a three toed, a big bird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So. Yeah, like a dinosaur in Jurassic Park.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Yes. That's how we do it. Law and order in Jurassic Park. Steven. Okay, so this is the third encounter in 48 hours. And the town of Van Meter is now gripped in fear. But the strangeness continues when the sun goes down that night. So Once again around 2am on Friday, October 2, 35 year old Otto V. White, who is the oldest man in town, Just Kidd, who lives in an apartment above his Main street hardware store, is now awakened by a quote rasping sound outside. He immediately grabs his gun, he opens a window and he scans the street. He's waiting for his eyes to adjust to the darkness. I wonder if their vision was different because there was so little artificial light back then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, and I'm also like the dude in the bank, he's. I don't like him. I know, don't. But his vision would have been so fucked after having basically a flashlight in your face. Especially cause he had never, probably hadn't been around electric light that long. So I don't trust. I don't know why I don't like him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You don't like capitalists? Is that what it is?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He seems like a pick me guy. That's what I'm saying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so he hears the rasping noise. This is Auto from the hardware store. Hears a rasping noise, immediately grabs his gun, opens the window, scans the street. He's waiting for his. And as they do, he sees something hanging off the nearest telephone pole about 15ft away. So dangerously close for my taste. But it's another kind of rainy cloudy night. There's almost no moonlight. It's really too dark to be able to see any of the features of what this thing is. But Otto's already heard about the monster stalking Van Meter. So he thinks the best plan is to just shoot at whatever it is hanging off that telephone pole and ask questions. Later. He raises his gun, he pulls the trigger. But instead of this thing tumbling to the ground or screeching or anything, it's just silence. Until a moment later when an incredibly bright light shines right in his Face. Suddenly he's overwhelmed by a horrible stench. And then it all gets a little foggy. And Otto cannot remember anything that happens after that. After the stench.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This has Mothman vibes, doesn't it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep, that will come up later. So meanwhile, Otto's gunshot wakes up the man who lives diagonally across Main Street. 20 year old shopkeeper, Sidney, Greg, 20 year old shopkeeper, children. He's been asleep in his street level apartment that's attached to his store. So he runs into a shop, he swings the front door open, he looks out over Main street and he's looking around for the source of the gunshots. But what he's shocked to see is the entire street of lit up like it was daytime. And then he sees the creature still clinging to the nearby telephone pole with a bright light coming from its head. And according to reports, Sidney says it's hanging by what look like talons or bird claws.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Three of them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Three bird claws.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let me just go ahead and do this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, pinch like a pincher. Ooh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He ate with that light coming off his head. So Sidney is the witness who gets the best look at this creature of anyone in the. And his description is more evocative of something like a pterodactyl versus like some flying humanoid creature.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mm. He watches as it climbs down from the pole and stands upright. And he estimates this thing is eight feet tall.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it jumps a couple times, unfolds two massive featherless wings. All the while the light on its forehead sweeping back and forth like it's scanning the area. And. And then right on schedule, the overnight train barrels past Van Meter on the nearby tracks and spooks the creature. And from his shop's doorway, Sidney says he watches it bolt off, quote, on all four feet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whoa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he runs like a horse, like remember you said in the beginning?

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he looks like a bird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he lands like a human and looks like a bird. And then runs off on all four. Okay, so when the word gets around the next this town goes into an all out panic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Of course, where are the women to calm everyone down? For fuck's sake.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? There weren't many in the picture.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It doesn't seem like it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It seems like a bunch of college grads went out and started Van Meter by themselves in a boys only club.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hysterical boys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then more information comes to light, talking about the old abandoned coal mine in Van Meter. It was built next to a brick and tile factory and the brick and tile factory is still in business. So word spreads that workers at the Brick and tile factory have been hearing weird sounds coming from the abandoned coal mine for a while. They just haven't really talked about it to anybody. Which also is an interesting kind of dynamic of like the pressure of small town. Like once you say, hey, we heard weird screeching or whatever. It's like, oh, they're crazy at the tile factory or whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Puffing tile glue or whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, exactly. So they haven't talked about it. So we don't really know how long they had been hearing those noises. But the factory and the mine shaft sits about 500ft away from each other. So relatively close. So as the sun sets that Friday evening, the residents of Van Meter are preparing for another night of terror. And sure enough, it comes around 1:00am 44 year old. Oh my God. A geriatric.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ugh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

44 year old JL Platt, the operations manager of the brick and tile factory and his crew of overnight workers start hearing those same weird noises coming from the mine shafts once again. But now, because they've all heard about these sightings and all the crazy stuff that's been happening, Platt finally decides he's going to step out and investigate this noise. There's a full moon that night, so he can see better than he would normally be able to. He walks towards the mine shaft. And as he approaches, he sees the outline of two creeps standing in the shaft entrance.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's got a buddy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He got a buddy. A little buddy. One is noticeably larger than the other. Both have those light horns on their heads. He watches as they raise their enormous rings and fly off into the dark.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this time there's no waiting until sunrise. Platt, his workers and other citizens of Van Meter immediately mobilize, thinking that the mine is where these creatures live. A group of vigilantes armed with guns

[Georgia Hardstark]

just start fucking shooting into it or what? Set it on fire. What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They surround the mine and they wait until daybreak because they're like, if they live here, they're coming back. And sure enough, right at dawn, the monsters are seen flying back through the sky toward the mineshaft.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So everybody starts shooting. Jesus. Right? They unload everything they've got. And as they do, the two creatures let out bizarre loud groans. And the air suddenly fills with that strange odor. But like every other time that anyone's TR at these mysterious things, the bullets have no effect. Reportedly, the creatures land. And here's where I go. They push their way past the citizens and they disappear down the mineshaft into the dark tunnel. So they're like out of our way. We're going back home and no one can do anything because it's like, you're not gonna fist fight them. The guns don't work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They got that close. This is surprising, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What happens next is also mistaken. What we do know is that the citizens of Van Meter blocked the entrance to that abandoned coal mine, like, boarded up forever. And after that, there are no more documented sightings of these strange creatures ever again. Over time, they become known as the Van Meter visitor, or visitors. And the remnants of that old mine with its blocked off entrance are still there in Van Meter, but they're now on private property.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Has anyone gone in and searched for them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I'm sure. Well, but here's the thing. I wonder. We'll theorize. Okay, so there are a lot of theories about what this could have been. Who or what the Van Meter visitor actually was. The most plausible explanation being it's a case of mass misidentification involving something like a vulture or a large owl, which is the same theory that kind of writes off the Mothman, which is interesting because the Mothman, they think it was a gigantic bird called a shoebill that was basically migrating and got knocked off its migration path.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The weirdest looking bird you've ever seen in your life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is a wild looking bird. So, like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But if you saw out in the wild, you'd fucking run in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Especially in, like, car lights on a very dark highway. I feel like darkness is a big part of all of these things that are like it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's nocturnal. They're nocturnal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're nocturnal creatures. Except for that last experience, which is so heightened that it's like truly a whole town sat there and watch these things come and fly. And then they were like pushed out of the way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, like they're at a fucking concert or something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like they're pushing to the front. Okay. Some write the whole thing off as a practical joke. But if that were true, then they'd know who was doing it because the one was 8ft tall. If they were average height, they'd have to be talented enough to bounce fly and climb telephone poles on stilts and in costume while carrying an incredibly bright lantern or an electric headlight that there's almost no way that could have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sears had an incredible catalog. And it always. There's also the theory of mass delusion at 8 and Sears 8. There's the theory of mass delusion. Because throughout the 1800s and the early 1900s, newspapers were full of sensationalized reports of weird creatures. The Van Meter visitor story predates the 1909 Jersey Devil Pants. Which is similar cause it involves a flying dinosaur esque creature. Predates it by about seven years. And of course it predates our beloved Mothman by 50 years. More than 50 years. But it's totally possible the people in Van Meter were reading about other strange creatures in the papers. And getting those ideas. Because about a decade earlier. A pterodactyl like monster. Known as the Tombstone Thunderbird was spotted in Arizona. And that's the one that I've heard about that where it's like it's a bird, but it is so gigantic it's like a 50 foot wingspan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've never heard of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I think there were stories of like it carried off a child Jesus. Like it's so huge and a bunch of people saw it. So even if that story was a lie, but it's in the newspaper and then the story goes around, then it's like we've got our own. Also there's of course the very plausible theory. The residents of Van Meter invented a monster story. To drum up either publicity draw visitors to the town. It's hard to imagine the most respected citizens of the town. Like a doctor and a future mayor. Would use their own good names to like back up a hoax like that. Although let's not put anything past the high level people. As we have learned these days. By most accounts, locals did not like seize on the newspaper coverage to make more of it. They actually didn't seem to like it. So it's unclear who would have benefited by spreading a story like this. We can take a closer look at the man who wrote the articles about the Van Meter visitor. He's a journalist named Harry H. Phillips. And we can mull over whether or not he is a bad reporter. Or somehow involved in elaborate hoax. Or just plain old telling the truth. The town of Van Meter, as I said, doesn't have its own newspaper in 1903. So the first reports of this event pop up in the Des Moines daily paper on October 5th. A couple days after that last reported sighting. It's totally possible Harry H. Phillips was given bad information, got kind of basic information. And embellished the original details as he was working on the copy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, we've done that for 10 years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what we do. You know, their old timey version of clickbait. Essentially just like can you believe what's happening out west where nothing's provable and there are no cameras. Again, though, I will say Harry H. Phillips is an Esteemed member of the community of Van Meter. He lives in Van Meter. He is the local postmaster, which I think takes an extra amount of honesty and trustworthiness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's not one to embellish, relish, or lie. Yeah, okay. He's off the hook.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What are those things? Money. A money order?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that what it's called?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I know what we're talking about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I need to give you $300, but I don't want to have give you cash. So I'll give you this thing from the bank.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Wire. I don't know, cashier's check.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A cashier's check. God damn it. You know what? I quit. Forget that. I'll just keep going. So people, trust this man. And also, very important to mention that there was a contest in Van Meter, or I don't know if it was a contest, but they had the handsome bachelors of Van Meter that they featured every year, and he was one of them. Here are the handsome bachelors. Hello, boys of Van Meter. This was from 1901.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the one who looks like he's just seen a ghost. This guy? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Constant surprise. Oh, you mean young Harry Houdini who somehow lived in Van Meter, Iowa?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You guys go to our Instagram if you want to see this photo. The front row mustaches are fucking given.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are they?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, is it like these are the most esteemed citizens because they have the biggest mustaches, and it goes up to the youngsters.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can't just, willy nilly, grow a mustache.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think if I had to pick one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How about that lone wolf over on the left?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I like the one below him with the mustache.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's kind of a daddy issue pick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's giving Zaddy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's giving Zaddy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally Zaddy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Zaddy. My guy has a hair sticking up just like I. Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, he looks the most, like, modern, I'd say.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he does. That's the time travel.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's like a modern man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's why he's a little bit apart, because he slipped in on the side. Like cam from 1974.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's disappearing right before our eyes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, why? This one hand is going away. So Harry is on the left in the middle row.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So this guy, he's a little thicker. He's a little thicker around the face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, now that you point. Now that I point him out and blame it on you, I think he might be my pick. Okay, no more time travelers. Our boyfriends are friends.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, you can have both.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't have to pick. Fucking monogamy is out in the nineteen oh threes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Imagine that'd be even more revolutionary than this monster with a light on its head. So he's handsome. Of course he's not lying. Again, there's no obvious reason for him to make up the story. Unless it is a ruse to get more subscribers, which. Which I think is what yellow journalism was kind of all about back then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure. I mean, that makes sense.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what we really need for the fan meter or visitors mystery to be solved is to find that old plaster cast of the monster's footprint. Or maybe discover some lost diary of someone's great great grandmother in an attic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, I was there. In an attic. In an attic. Some fucking ex sheriff's grandma's. Fuck. What? I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please. Or. Or like I like to. Then even more kind of thrilling to me is it's at the bottom of a pile in a hoarder house where people are like, I just can't deal with it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like we have to wait till grandma dies before we clean up or she's gonna freak the fuck out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. But they're just sitting there. Proof.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was my dad's. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He told me not to say anything. And then I started hoarding to cover up the secret in my mind. People don't talk like that in Iowa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't they? Maybe they do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone becomes an old prospector immediately. Okay. It's like the Bigfoot deathbed confession where it's like, hey, look, it's all a prank. Like, that would be great. But until that happens, we just can't know what happened in Van Meter in the fall of 1903. Everyone in our story, of course, has long since passed the Amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Except for Harry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for that. That guy. It's crazy. He's 212.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He hasn't aged a day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I say he's 212. I know for a fact how many years it's been since that happened.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But how old is he then? So he's 100 and whatever. We don't math here at my favorite Murder Matter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we love to riff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Use your calculator.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't. I don't know how. We're just a few.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The meme of like, my husband can. I don't want him to look at my camera. Not because I want. I'm cheating on him, but because. And then it pulls up a calculator and it's like, no. 9 minus 3.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The most basic math. So good. I think we should Start doing our favorite TikTok of the week to show and show each other all week long. We're like, find the thing that you love the most. Whether it's funny, touching, a cool new thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then we'll learn the dance.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then we do the dance.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you'll do the dance. You have to do the dance though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then we do like, you know,

[Georgia Hardstark]

the couples ones where it's like they y or whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I'll flip you. And then we end in a two man pyramid. Yeah, okay, I'll do it. So here's the good news. We're just a couple years shy of the 125th anniversary of the Van Meter visitor event. And more good news. Van Meter has since embraced their historical cryptozoological mystery. They have a yearly Van Meter Visitor festival.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this year it's on September 26th.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll see you there. That's the story of the Van Meter visitor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good, good one. I have never heard of that guy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. It's a love a cryptozoology fuckin and also one that's like what if there were dinosaurs?

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But what if there is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But what if there are dinosaurs that had lights on their head like those fish.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like the fish. I was totally right. Has there ever been.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that possible?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Animal doctors. Has there ever been an. An animal? I'm pretty sure there's been an insect. But has there ever been an animal that has had a light source on its head? Please let us know. Yeah, we didn't go to college.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're not animal doctors.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Be here and help us solve this Van Meter mystery. As a doctor, I'll tell you my theory because you know, this is my theory or this is what I've read and then absolutely believed about the Loch Ness Monster is these prehistoric clothes. Creatures that are in underground caverns and lakes and all the things we don't know are down there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Deep, dark and mysterious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then they evolve down there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then you start blowing up their ecosystem. And they come to the surface and

[Georgia Hardstark]

look around and go where are the intruders?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We need to reduce our carbon foot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's their land and we're intruding in

[Karen Kilgariff]

the center of the earth. Well wait, let me see if there's any other pictures that I would.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is there one? Like a drawing of what it would look like? Is that okay? Oh, there it is. Oh, it looks like a dragon.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Van Meter, hot under the collar. So basically it's like the report on like here's what they think happened. Now everybody thinks they're crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is why people don't come forward, as we know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. So is there a cryptozoology guy in your town? Tell us at my favorite murdermail for minisodes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also any of the stuff that I just talked about that is incorrect. When I first moved to LA in 1994, there's a group of guys, Mark Feit, Toby Huss, Jim Turner, and they were called the Iowa Boys. They all did comedy. And I love Iowa because those three

[Georgia Hardstark]

boys represented it well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're just truly salt of the earth, good guys, great drinkers, funny as fucking hell.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so I respect the people of Iowa. If I said anything wrong, please let me know and I will correct it. Those are the last people I want to displease.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure. Yeah. Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Is that it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think we have to stop.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We must stop plenty Some fucking point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're gonna really soon. Don't worry. Really gotta stop really soon. We're gonna. All right, here we go. Hey, everybody. We're in the car doing a live action. Moving, driving, honking. Hooray.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Presented by Hyundai, driven by Georgia Harsha.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should I go for it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit. She's running around. It's not red.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was very yellow. That was very yellow. They're gonna take it away from Una.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the perfect. Yep. Let's toughen. Okay. Here's the first one is from Cass and it's via Instagram dm and it says, hey, Queens. My hooray is that after a year of sickness and injury and mostly being stuck inside, I remembered who I am this month. I completed a four week pilates challenge, went to a bunch of gigs and remembered I have a personality and free will. So I got a new tattoo. I'm stronger, happier, saw Noel Gallagher play Master Plan live, and I'm feeling like myself again, which is better than any drug I've been prescribed this year. And then it says, stay sexy and pulse this one out, Cass.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hell yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice one, Cass.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Solve any heartbreak.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's such a nice build of like, she was down, like, didn't know what to do. And then slowly but surely, like, I did something for my muscles, I did something for my ears. I went to for my ears, seeing Noel Gallagher. You're all set.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've remembered who I am. I love that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Good job, Cass. We're behind you. Here's the second one, and it's a short one. It says my Hooray is a huge personal one. After eight years of referrals and waiting, I finally have a date for top surgery. It's finally time to yeet my teats. And then it just says Alex.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They them amazing Alex. Congratulations Alex.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You've done it. It's good that you were patient. It's good that you got to do the thing that you wanted to do and sorry that this nation has turned the way it has.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We support you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We support you entirely. Okay, here's one. It's from an email. It says Hooray for sisters and it starts. I'm so happy Hoorays are back. First, it was a dream to see you in Denver with my favorite and only sister. Now to the hooray. Let me preface with the fact that my little sister is my ex. Four years ago her abusive cheating husband left after running her into foreclosure in bankruptcy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was not on me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, I'm not laughing at either of those things. That was a weird three way stop that Georgia had to manage. A few months later she was diagnosed with breast cancer as a single mom and self employed woman. A double mastectomy and the recovery was brutal. She lost all of her retirement, her savings, her home and her beautiful. Now she has a growing business, a gorgeous daughter, a supportive caring partner and me. She always has me and my hooray is we have each other and she is here. A cancer free, strong woman. I love her and I couldn't be happier to have a best friend like her. Krista, you're my hooray. Thanks for all the laughter. Karen and Georgia, don't forget to get the girls checked. Kira in Colorado.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a brilliant, really amazing one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love the message. It hurts but you got to get them checked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, this honking hooray is about someone we all know and love. The email is entitled Paul Giamatti and it says are we still doing Hoorays? If so, I've got the tiniest little things some of your fans might like. I'd just like to shout out MFM royalty, Mr. Paul Giamatti. Does he know he's MFM royalty?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that he's like I hope not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For making my day by giving a lengthy quote about how Star Trek Deep Space Nine is his favorite of the series. I don't think I'm alone in taking a bit of joy hearing about super talented and charming folks who also share your particular flavor of nerd. There's been plenty of times when my tastes have overlapped with you all during the years too. Anyway, hooray for Paul Giamatti. Again. And may 2026 be a year. We listen to our elders like George Takei. Thanks to for everything, Lindsay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aw, but what about Next Generation?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, everyone knows there's so many choices in the Star Trek community.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good job everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we really hoorayed it up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We sure did. And thank you to Hyundai for giving us the opportunity to drive around and read Hoorays.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We really appreciate you Hyundai. And stay sexy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't get murdered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ambulance.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bye. They called an ambulance. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com

[Karen Kilgariff]

and follow the show on Instagram at

[Georgia Hardstark]

My favorite Murder Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now you can watch My favorite Murder on Netflix.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye this Mother's Day Celebrate the woman behind it all with Pandora Jewelry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get your mom some jewelry that feels personal and reflects the moments that make

[Georgia Hardstark]

matter most, whether that's a date, a name or a shared memory. You can make it even more meaningful with an engraving in your own handwriting

[Karen Kilgariff]

because the best Mother's Day gift says more than just I love you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Find the perfect Mother's Day gift at your local Pandora store or [e-mail] Goodbye.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

And now with the new Kleenex Snap and Go, you get that same gentle care made for life on the go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get the Kleenex Ultra Soft tissues you love in a new compact, durable package.

[Karen Kilgariff]

New Kleenex. Snap and go. Snap shut for a clean tissue, anytime, anywhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For whatever happens next. Grab Kleenex, Snap and go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.