539 - It Keeps Getting Ruined

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Favorite Murder – Episode 539: It Keeps Getting Ruined

July 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode of "My Favorite Murder," hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark dive into two strange and captivating stories from early American history: the notorious Joshua Spooner murder case of 1778 and the bizarre "Kentucky Meat Shower" of 1876. Mixing their signature true crime reporting with irreverent humor and pop culture tangents, Karen and Georgia explore the intersections of politics, gender, and justice in colonial America and delight in the weirdest meteorological event you've ever heard of. The episode also features network highlights and lively banter about travel, streaming TV, and jelly beans, all while remaining attentive to the emotional realities behind their stories.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up, Travel Tales & TV Spoilers

• Slutty Vacation Nails & Italy Stories (02:55–05:25):
  Georgia shares her love of Italian traditions, like dressing up for dinner and the ritual of napping in the afternoon. The duo jokes about the social expectations of travel influencer life and Georgia’s mother’s worries about her being visibly Jewish in Milan, where they unintentionally stayed in a hotel with ties to Mussolini.
  • "You can't get away from a city's history. It's not your fault that the really nice hotel was also his fault." — Karen (05:01)
• TV Talk: Widow's Bay (05:44–08:12):
  Karen and Georgia discuss the joy/frustration of seeing spoilers on social media and how "Widow's Bay" is packed with clever Easter eggs. They highlight a viral fan theory about the show’s timeline, bringing in the audience's role in contemporary TV culture.

2. True Crime Update: Rex Heuerman (“Gilgo Beach Murderer”) (08:22–09:13)

• Karen delivers a rare "good news" update:
  • Rex Heuerman was sentenced to life without parole for the infamous Gilgo Beach murders.
  • The hosts reflect on how serial killers ultimately tend to be “some small little man” rather than the “mysterious monster” conjured during investigations.
  • “Let’s not make them this big, powerful being. It’s just some fucking dad from Long Island who sucks, you know?” — Georgia (09:13)

3. Exactly Right Network Highlights (09:28–11:09)

• Shoutouts to various network shows:
  • Bananas: Covers strange news stories like the “World Cup trophy bong.”
  • Ghosted: Comedian/tarot queen Lizzie Cooperman discusses manifestations and hermit crabs.
  • Trust Me: Features Lola’s mom, Dr. Christine Marie, who shares her experience going undercover with the FBI.
  • Roz Hernandez’s memoir, Peeing in an Empty Bottle, is now available.

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4. Karen's Story: The Murder of Joshua Spooner (11:09–43:50)

a. Setting the Scene (11:09–14:17)

• March 1, 1778, Brookfield, Massachusetts:
  Joshua Spooner, a well-to-do businessman, is murdered and thrown down his own well.
• Context: The American Revolution is raging. Local sentiments are fiercely divided between patriots and loyalists.

b. The Spooner & Ruggles Families (14:18–18:41)

• Joshua is a patriot. His wife, Bathsheba Ruggles Spooner, is a loyalist’s daughter, the favored child of Brigadier General Timothy Ruggles – a prominent, now-despised loyalist. Their marriage is unhappy, arranged, and plagued by infidelity, violence, and mutual resentment.
• “One of the few surviving direct quotes we have from either Spooner is one where Bathsheba describes her feelings about her husband with just two words: ‘utter aversion.’” — Karen (19:01)

c. The Entrée of Ezra Ross (20:00–24:24)

• Ezra Ross, a 16-year-old Continental soldier, is taken in and nursed back to health by Bathsheba during the winter.
• Despite the major age gap (Bathsheba is 31/32), they develop a secret emotional and likely physical affair.

d. Murder Conspiracy & Execution (25:00–43:50)

• Facing an impossible future and an unwanted pregnancy, Bathsheba first convinces Ezra to attempt poisoning Joshua (unsuccessfully).
• Later, Bathsheba hires two British deserters, William Brooks and James Buchanan, promising them a huge sum to kill Joshua.
• Joshua is ambushed, beaten, strangled, and thrown in the well. An inept cover-up follows — the conspirators wear Joshua's clothes and flaunt his belongings at a nearby inn, quickly arousing suspicion.
• All four conspirators (Bathsheba, Ezra, Brooks, Buchanan) are swiftly arrested.
• The trial is a sensation, prosecuted by a Declaration of Independence signee and defended by a future Attorney General. The insanity defense is attempted and likely the first used in the new United States.
• Bathsheba pleads for a stay of execution on the grounds of pregnancy. A panel of midwives deems her not pregnant, but post-execution autopsy reveals she was five months along, prompting public horror.
• “The clouds told you, but you wouldn’t listen.” — Karen (41:34), referring to the storm that accompanied the execution.
• The case becomes an early example of how gender and political bias influence justice and is now viewed with more empathy toward Bathsheba’s circumstances.

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5. Georgia’s Story: The Kentucky Meat Shower (45:11–67:14)

a. The Weirdest Storm Ever (46:14–51:40)

• March 3, 1876, Olympian Springs, Kentucky:
  Rebecca Crouch is making soap when a shower of what turns out to be “meat” falls from the sky in large flakes. Family pets rejoice; local animals eat it.
  • “The Crouch family cat and dog are fucking stoked. They come running and they start going to town.” — Georgia (49:38)

b. Investigation & Theories (51:40–59:44)

• Samples are sent to various labs. Theories range from snot-like bacteria (nostoc), lung tissue from a horse or infant (grim!), the remains of men scattered by wind (ridiculous), or even meat from space.
• The most plausible is the “vulture vomit” theory: startled vultures regurgitated meals overhead, accounting for the mysterious meatfall.

c. Legacy and Celebration (59:45–67:14)

• In the 2000s, art professor Kurt Goad discovers an old vial containing preserved “meat,” tries to analyze it, and ultimately commemorates the original shower by making weird jelly beans based on the sample’s flavor profile and hosting a festival with meat-themed games and a jerky “meat shower" from an airplane.
• The sample is now housed in Transylvania University’s quirky museum in Lexington, KY, alongside a giant cow hairball and a tobacco smoke enema device.
• “I’m going to end on a quote from Dave Barry… ‘Laughter is how we express the anxiety we feel at this knowledge [that we are trapped in a world almost totally devoid of reason].’” — Georgia (67:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On colonial patriarchy:
  “You gotta discuss politics before you get married…I was kidding about that because women don’t get to choose their politics or their husbands back then.” — Georgia (16:52)
• “He poisons Joshua’s drink… Problem is, when Joshua takes a sip of that drink, it’s literally like, who put gasoline in my tea?” — Karen (26:08)
• On sensational early American crime:
  “That is the story of the first murder in America. The murder of Joshua Spooner.” — Karen (43:50)
• On the meat shower sample:
  “How much to drink that liquid?... For me right now…I guess it would have to be roughly $3 million.” — Karen (61:40)
• On enduring podcaster gratitude:
  “If you’ve listened to this point, you’re a real one and we fucking appreciate the shit out of you.” — Georgia (68:08)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Personal Banter & TV Spoilers: 02:46–08:12
• True Crime Update (Gilgo Beach): 08:22–09:13
• Network Highlights: 09:28–11:09
• Karen’s Spooner Murder Story: 11:09–43:50
• Georgia’s Kentucky Meat Shower: 45:11–67:14

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Tone & Style

True to MFM tradition, the episode is a blend of dark historical detail and playful, irreverent comedy. The hosts’ conversational delivery brings both empathy and levity to even gruesome or bizarre subject matter, promoting curiosity and compassion while making space for laughter in the face of human absurdity.

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For MFM Fans and New Listeners

This episode exemplifies the show’s core formula: two friends swapping wild stories, riffing on history, and pulling apart the ways society processes crime and weirdness. Whether you’re here for facts, laughs, or both, “It Keeps Getting Ruined” offers plenty to chew on—just maybe don’t eat anything that falls from the sky.

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Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Ashlyn Harris]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

My name is Jessa. One of the things I love the most about working for UnitedHealthcare is that everybody matters. Every moment matters. There's a person behind every problem. I care because it's what I was put on this earth to do. I'm Ben and I work at UnitedHealthcare. I am just one piece of a larger puzzle. But every piece matters. It's more than just work. We wanna make the healthcare system better for everyone. I think care because I want to make a difference. That's what Committed to Care means to me.

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello, and welcome to my favorite murderer. That's Georgia Heartstar, that's Karen Kilgariff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we've got some surprises in store for you today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Slutty vacation nails, pet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, those are the longest I've ever seen your nails.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're not mine. They're like, literally vacation nails that I'm obsessed with.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Will you throw up those nails to your camera as we are on Netflix and show the world they're gel x

[Georgia Hardstark]

and they just make you feel like a grownup.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, they look really nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My nails have always been, like, junior high school, and now I'm, like, in my 30s working at a law firm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Congratulations.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When'd you get that job?

[Georgia Hardstark]

When I got my fucking nails.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They came with the nails.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. Cause my nails are the manicure I gave myself at the last minute. Cause I couldn't somehow get to the mani pedi salon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Show your camera.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, no, because it's just dire because it now looks like a French manicure. But that's not how it started. That's how kind of old. I also always immediately smudged my right thumb.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Always.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so irritating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Life is hard for a girl. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you having any? Since you've been back from your trip to Italy? Which, now that you're a travel influencer, I think we should discuss all of your opinions and likes and dislikes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Finally. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come with me. Is anything staying with you that you miss about being on that trip or, like, your Italian experience?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I miss which was really nice, which probably gets old after a while, but it was only two weeks, is dressing for dinner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because they have that period between the afternoon and the evening where nobody does anything. You take a nap, and then you have to put on, like, a dress for dinner. You can't wear tennis shoes. And it just, like, made everything feel so much more special.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I loved that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But, yeah, it was incredible. At a really good, beautiful time. Milan is, like, incredible. I'd go back there immediately. Yeah. My mom texts me a thing of, like, don't wear your Star of David again. She texts me this thing, as if I've ever had a fucking piece of jewelry. Yes. She said, don't wear your Star of David. Like, keep it low key that you're Jewish. As if that's not what I already do. But then we found out we were staying at a hotel where Mussolini had stayed before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I was like, I can't tell her that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That you're like, look, I'm seeing their side of things. No, that's not good. But also, you can't get away from a city's history. You can't. You know, it's not your fault that the really nice hotel was also his fault.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Lots of things are my fault.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In my mind, World War II though I don't think so.

[Ashlyn Harris]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can let yourself off the hook for that one. I mean, it must be a huge relief. It is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's up with you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've just been wearing a Star David around, seeing what I can kick up. Not much. You know, we went on vacation, obviously, you know, at the same time, but I did a staycation and truly just tried to do nothing. Literally lay on the couch and pull a blanket up to my chin like it was the middle of winter. Any chance I could.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it. Did you binge Widow's Bay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah. And now I'm in the. Watching people react to how much they love Widow's Bay on social media, which is such like, it's becoming this new way that we all watch tv where it's just as satisfying for me to watch people get excited to go, here's what I think Easter egg is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This egg was my favorite. I. I fucked the whole thing up, though. Here's the negative side of that. I watched a spoiler on accident and knew that last bit, that last exciting bit. I accidentally watched a fucking. Like it's the whole turning point of the show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you went in knowing it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When she goes about, you know, I was pregnant. I knew what happened. And at the beginning of that episode, before it even happened, I go, I get why that matters. Cause I thought it was just like a regular random scene that I was gonna laugh at. It was the whole point of the fucking show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I knew and I was so bummed. Like, Vince gasped and I wanted to gasp too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also the danger of when we get all this stuff through social media, you can't control that someone's about to give you a spoiler as we do on this show. Constant.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That wasn't a spoiler and you should totally watch it. But.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I mean, like, you that there's a backwards way that, like, I always seem to end up consuming like a TV show the way I hate the most, which is, you know, all the big moments before you go in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then you're kind of judging them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You don't even have to see them at that point. You know the story.

[Ashlyn Harris]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I would argue that with Widow's Bay, they're doing so much, they work so hard to Easter egg in storyline. I watched a woman lay out this whole idea. And we will in our social media, we'll post her video and we will give her the full. Cause it's a really brilliant thing. She noticed, which is that time is all screwed up in Widow's Bay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like the calendar that has a car accident on it. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that in her theory, she's like, actually, these three episodes all happened in one day, but you don't realize it. If you think about it, you can't tell when a thing is actually happening. You're not sure. And she introduced all these kind of doubts about, oh, that's right. In the time where he's got the wolves calendar, but then he opens the month that they're in and it's the car accident.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So random.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, there's so many Easter eggs about. You assume you think you know what's going on and how, and it's going to start. Like, it's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's the comedian's name? Who plays the shaman? It's just like, the best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, Chris Fleming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just the best. You know, five minutes of tv.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Chris Fleming. He's so perfect in it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's okay, just drink it slow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He goes, I just finished it. So fucking good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is not. It should be a widow's Bay rewatch podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just for the next four years. We turn it into.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You have a true crime update.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a true crime update, and it's just plain good news. Which when in the 10 years we've been doing this podcast, has that ever happened?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Seriously?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rex Heuerman, the Gilgo beach murderer, on Wednesday, June 17, was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for the murders of Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy, Amberlynn Costello, Maureen Brainard Barnes, Valerie Mackay, Jessica Taylor, Sandra Cristia, and Karen Vergada. And he initially denied these charges and he was set to go to trial, but basically he changed his plea to guilty in April and now he is in jail.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, yeah, I'm glad that is over with and he can go rot in hell.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Wow. It's always strange when it ends and you know the reality. And it is the big ghost, the big monster, the mysterious monster is just some horrible man, some small little man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Coward. Yeah. That's why I love cold cases. It's like, let's not make them this big, you know, Powerful being. It's just some fucking dad from Long island who sucks, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just. Yeah, not good. Okay. Should we get into it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You mean talk about our network?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure. Hey, we have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some headlights. Here's some headlights. Nope. Here are some highlights.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's some highlights. This week on our podcast, Bananas Kurt and Scotty discuss whether all the water on Earth has already been peed in. They talk about a World cup trophy bong that landed a head shop in legal trouble and everything in between.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then over on Ghosted, Raz is joined by comedian and tarot queen, our friend Lizzie Cooperman. They shuffle the cards while discussing, yes, no later manifestations, hermit crabs. And one lingering question, when will Roz become more famous?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, we kind of have the answer to that, right? Because Roz just really her new audiobook, it is her memoir and it's entitled Peeing in an Empty Bottle and Other Glamorous Shenanigans of an Almost Famous Transgender Comedienne on the Road. And that book is out now. It blends stories, obviously from her cross country comedy tour with exclusive standup and behind the scenes audio. So if you wanna support Roz, she is an incredible standup comic, hilarious podcaster. We love her, obviously member of our family here, but also just like an entertainer to beat the band.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Truly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her book is gonna be great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Roz Hernand find it then. This week on Trust Me, Lola and Megan are joined by Dr. Christine Marie, Lola's mom, who is also the podcast's very first guest. She shares how she went undercover with the FBI to help bring down self proclaimed prophet Sam Bateman. So if you watch Trust Me on Netflix, this is the one we're talking about. And you can also watch the full video episode [e-mail] exactlyrightmedia Karen goes first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So my story today begins on March 1st, 1778. Are you ready? No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So long ago.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So long ago. We're talking about an area that I truly and literally know almost nothing about, except for this story, which is the Revolutionary War era of America.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know that you can't correct me in any of these mistakes I'm about to make, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's why we do this podcast together again. My excuse is that I changed school fifth to sixth grade.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's gotta be. Yeah, that's hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They learned about stuff like that in the fifth grade at my new school and in the sixth grade at my old school.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're preaching to the choir.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Roman numerals. I was sick that day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All the presidents, not my business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

None of my business.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not really. Never brought up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't vote for them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't get to see pictures of them all around the walls all year long. Okay, so March 1, 1778. We are in Brookfield, Massachusetts, west of Worcester. And it's a Snowy night around 9 o'. Clock. Most of the locals in Brookfield are either at home Sitting in front of the fire or they've already gotten into bed under their thick quilts and blankets because it's so cold outside. Cute, but a local, wealthy local businessman. 37 year old Joshua Spooner. He's outside in the elements because he spent the last few hours at the local tavern and now he's making the quarter mile walk home down Brookfield's main road. It's dark outside, almost. No, he's holding a lantern because this is old fashioned times and that's required at night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So chuggy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? And he keeps saying hello. Hello. And for the beginning of his walk he is with his friend, Dr. Jonathan King, who is the town's physician. The doctor splits off in the direction of his house when they come to the fork in the road. And then Joshua continues on by himself, eventually making it to his very stately two story home, which is one of the nicest in Brookfield. He climbs a set of stone steps that take him from the street up onto his property. He unlatches his front gate and then he heads back toward one of the back entrances of the house. He never makes it inside.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Instead Joshua Spooner's body will be discovered, beaten, strangled and stuffed down his well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. This is the story of the murder of Joshua Spooner, which is one of the very first high profile murder cases in America.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

1778.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get at that. Vintage murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Happy Fourth of July, everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

While we are lighting off firecrackers and trying to dissociate, let's remember how this country started with extreme violence on a day to day basis.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. True crime isn't new.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. The main source of today's story is the research and writing of Deborah Navas. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So it's 1778. Only two years have passed since the signing of the Declaration. Declaration of Independence. We're in deep early history for us. Kind of nauseating. It feels like you haven't eaten lunch, but you have to listen to the teacher. Keep talking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Revolutionary War has continued and will continue for five more years. It's been going for about two and a half, three. So the American Revolution is the backdrop for this whole case. The colonies are fiercely divided at this time between patriots and loyalists. And Joshua Spooner, this murder victim, was a supporter of the Patriot cause. That cause is especially strong and well supported in New England at this point in the Revolutionary War, British leadership has been driven out of Massachusetts. The colony is now governed by revolutionary leaders. One of the Highest ranking officials is Joshua's stepbrother, a man named John Avery Jr. So the problem is Joshua has a prominent loyalist in his family. His father in law, Brigadier General Timothy Ruggles.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cute name.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Little Timmy Ruggles. Kins's father in law. His wife's Bathsheba's father. So Bathsheba Ruggles is the woman that Joshua's married. Joshua Spooner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bring that name back. Bathsheba, you're a witch. You're immediately a witch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're a witch or you're a Bible lady?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Congratulations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like one of two things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In this story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. Witch. Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So before the revolution, Timothy Ruggles was a very powerful man. He held a bunch of important political posts in Massachusetts while under British rule. So when the revolution started, colonists began to embrace the patriot cause. Timothy Ruggles stays committed to the British crown. Huge mistake in Worcester. So in the mid-1770s, Timothy Ruggles goes to New York to join the British army. That's how much he commits.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, literally. Wrong side of history, bruh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Read the fucking room, dude. Of Massachusetts. There's a room as wide as Massachusetts. So obviously bad for his reputation in New England. So soon, Timothy Ruggles is considered one of the most despised political figures in revolutionary Massachusetts. Whoa. So who would you compare him to

[Georgia Hardstark]

these days, do you think?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Donald Trump maybe sounds right. So this war, was that a little too fast? So all of this has created serious tension in the Spooner household between Joshua and his wife, Bathsheba. She. She is very close with her father, Timothy Ruggles, and there are four Ruggles daughters. But Bathsheba has always been known to be her father's favorite. She's also suspected of sharing his political leanings. So when he leaves town, basically to join with the British, Joshua forbids his wife from having any communication with her disgraced turncoat father. And of course, she is devastated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You gotta discuss politics before you get married. I mean, like, get on the same page before you get.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, here's back then here's the real gossip about this story is that this relationship has never been good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was basically engineered in 1766 as a political arrangement hashed out by their wealthy fathers. Timothy saw the political writing on the wall, and he knew his loyalist sympathies could someday cause harm to his beloved Bathsheba.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I was kidding about that because women don't get to choose their politics or their husbands back then. So discussing politics before you get married and deciding if you want to marry them or not is not an option. So I was not being Serious?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no. It's not only not an option, it was literally like, how dare you? You couldn't suggest that you would be backhanded and told to go make a sandwich.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. And they didn't have sliced bread. So imagine that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, back before the Internet, they were still doing that. So when Bathsheba was around 20 years old, she was married off into the Spooner family, who were wealthy Boston merchants, because basically Timothy Ruggles knew his daughter would be pre protected socially and financially. But both Joshua and Bathsheba grew up incredibly privileged in aristocratic families. They both had generational power. And Bathsheba is roundly described to be exceptionally beautiful. Josh, meanwhile, is a successful lumberman. So there's. On paper, they were supposed to make a perfect couple. Right. She brings all the gorgeousness, he's money. In reality, they're just a miserable pair because despite the gender norms dictating quiet, dutiful wives of the time, Bathsheba is headstrong, she's rash, and she is free spirited. And she's said to have, quote, passions that have never been properly restrained. Same end quote. Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Meanwhile, Joshua, her husband, is described in old records as, quote, frequently drunk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There you go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. He's also unfaithful to his wife. He is suspected of being physically abusive to his wife. And one of the few surviving direct quotes we have from either Spooner is one where Bathsheba describes her feelings about her husband with just two words. Utter aversion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I should have said same after always drunk like that would have been. So do it again. Go again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he is described in old records as, quote, frequently drunk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Same.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. By 1777.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. Thank you for indulging me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it was fun. Yet the couple has, as were the practices of the times, the couple has four children together. Bummer. Only three of those children survived to adulthood. And years later, one of the adult Spooner sons will be heard calling his father, quote, old bogus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh, yeah. Just like such an insult back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Such an 18th century dig that historians say suggest his children did not respect him very much. So by 1777, it's been more than a decade into this miserable marriage and the relationship is as bad as it will ever be. They detest each other. But on top of that, Bathsheba is struggling terribly personally. She's isolated because she has to hide at home because her father is such a pariah. Yeah. But then hiding at home, she's there with this miserable marriage. No support, you know, so many kids, so many kids. So in March of that year, a stranger is passing by the front of the Spooner home. And it's a Continental soldier who's just completed a year of service in George Washington's army.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And this is how Cinemax starts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the first Cinemax kick in those saxophones from the Revolutionary War.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you have pictures? Was he hot?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We don't have pictures of the Continental soldier I'm about to tell you about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's picture who. Jacob Elordi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let me give you a little more information, okay? And then we're gonna cast him, okay. Because his name is Ezra ross and he's 16 years old.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, everyone, how old is she? She's a Grown up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's 32.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, hey, that's illegal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is illegal. I'm not sure of colonial law. So as we go, you can maybe think about who could be cast as a 16 year old. What do you know anything?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like he would be. He's cast in everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He looks like a teenager.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very true. But like how old are your nephews?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who said, oh, Micah's 16. Yeah, okay. Oh, gross. Right? Oh, gross. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The reality of a 16 year old.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As opposed to a chalamet. Right, so. So it's so funny. Okay, so he's on break between military duties, walking by. He was in a New Jersey army encampment. And he has to walk home to Ipswich, Massachusetts, which is essentially a 300 mile walk. Round trip, bro.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hitchhiking wasn't invented yet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause the carts, right, it's too slow, right. They just knock you off. Also, it's the winter, right? So it's worst case scenario for this young soldier. And to complicate it even more, he's dealing with the lingering effects of what was probably the flu that he caught at camp. So he's on a long winter walk, kind of getting over a bad flu. It's unclear whether he approached the Spooner house out of desperation or whether somebody in the Spooner house saw him passing and realized he needed help. Either way, the Spooners welcome Ezra into their home. The sick young man is put to bed. Bathsheba begins to nurse him back to health, feeding him and tending to him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And what side is he on? He's not on the British side.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's the American side.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great. Okay, so it's like forbidden for her too, because her dad is super into the British, you know, she's like, not well. He's 16. Fuck, man. It just keeps getting ruined.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so ruined. But it also, it's like it's a 16 year old who's being asked to live like a man. So there is that might help it a little more that he is actually taking on the horrors and responsibilities of being in the army and fighting a war.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If only he were 20.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he does have the llama curl at the front of his hair the way all the 16 year olds do these days. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ooh, sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Really popped that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was so loud. Okay. Taking in soldiers who are walking long distances after military stints is not uncommon in Revolutionary War times. What sets this encounter apart is that the time it takes for Ezra. I almost said Timothy Chalamet. The time it takes for Ezra to recover. We don't know exactly how long it is. We can assume it was at least a couple of weeks because he has to, you know, fully recover and whatever. But in that time, 31 year old Bathsheba Spooner and this adolescent soldier develop what a tasteful person would call a uniquely strong bond. But what we can all maybe in our bravo minds assume was fucking so the age difference. We don't wanna be calling things affairs like that, right? And also just let's not spend the time getting into all that discussion. Here's what we know. It's unclear if they start by having a physical affair. They have definitely started an emotional affair though. And it's a secret, which makes it even hotter. No one has any idea it's going on, especially Joshua Spooner, who has actually developed his own friendship with Ezra.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Ezra playing both sides.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. And getting some soup while he's on his long journey home doing what he's gotta do. At some point, Ezra's health improves enough so that the Spooners send him back on the road to Ipswich. But he never forgets bathsheba.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Within months, 31 year old woman, some

[Karen Kilgariff]

hot MILF that's like, let me take care. He's like, I'll be seeing you within weeks. I'm sorry. Within months he's called back to military service. But then when he gets leave, he comes and visits the Spooners in Brookfield. So it's a little less than a year later now, January 1778. And Bathsheba has news for Ezra. On his next visit, he comes to see the Spooners and she pulls him aside and is like, I'm pregnant. Oh shit. Uh huh. Now I wanted to act that up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I loved it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She yanks him into the pantry and then has to push him back out. Cause they have to act normal, damn it. So it's assumed by historians that given her, like, on the record, utter aversion with her husband that they weren't probably having sex and that probably Ezra is the father of this baby. Bathsheba is definitely panicked. And writer Deborah Navas puts it this way, quote, divorces were all but impossible for women in Revelation, and adulteresses were stripped to the waist and publicly whipped.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she is truly panicking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

During one of Ezra's visits, Bathsheba asks him to poison her husband with aqua fortis, or also known as nitric acid. It's an extremely corrosive acid used to dissolve tough materials like metal. And unlike other poisons from these old stories, like arsenic, aquafortis has an incredibly strong and very terrible taste. So it's a bad idea to use to begin with, but Ezra's just a sophomore in love with having sex with an old lady, so he does it. He's like, sounds good to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, dear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He poisons Joshua's drink. So, problem is, when Joshua takes a sip of that drink, it's literally like, who put gasoline in my tea? He immediately tastes the poison, spits out the mouthful, dumps the drink. So then, basically, for the rest of Ezra's stay, he keeps trying to poison Joshua and can't get it done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, folly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, right? The hilarious back and forth of all the things that Ezra has to spit out and be like, this taste is driving me crazy. So basically, by the end, Ezra gets cold feet about this whole scheme, his visit ends without a poisoning taking place, and he leaves Bathsheba to carry out that plan for herself. Support for today's episode comes from Square.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody starts a business because they love

[Karen Kilgariff]

payroll or invoices or business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's why there's Square.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Square brings your payments, inventory, scheduling, staff, online, orders, and reporting together in one connected system.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can take payments in person, online, or on the go, and track sales and inventory in real time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Instead of juggling a bunch of different apps, Square keeps everything connected behind the scenes so you're spending less time fixing problems.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whether you're just getting started or growing your business, business Square is designed to grow with you without complicated setup contracts or hidden fees.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you're starting a business or running one that deserves better tools, Square helps you sell, manage, and grow without slowing down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right now, you can get up to 200 off Square Hardware at square.com go mfm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's sq U-A-R-E.com g o/mfm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Ashlyn Harris]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Your idiot dog, Jingles just barfed up a sock puppet. Hey, it's Jingles. I'm fine. Just that stupid sock was looking at me fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, he's doing it again.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

He ate it again and puked it up again. He might need a vet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I might need a vet.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

so, a few weeks later, February of 1778, Joshua is away on a business trip. Bathsheba spots two British soldiers passing by the front of the house. They are Private William Brooks, who's in his late 20s, and Sergeant James Buchanan, who is in his mid-30s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so we're age appropriate now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now, yes, we're getting into some adults involving adults. Bathsheba sends out one of her workers basically to intercept them and offer them a place to sleep and food to eat. And they're very grateful to come inside. And when they do, Bathsheba learns they're British deserters who are trying to get home by way of Canada.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically, they're just trying to escape America alive to get home. So sensing her opportunity, Bathsheba offers them clothing and cash if they kill her husband when he comes back from his business trip. Some sources say she offers them $1,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which in today's money from 1778 to 20.

[Georgia Hardstark]

26. 12,000.

[Karen Kilgariff]

25,000. Damn, that's a lot of money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a lot of money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they accept. Okay. And when they do, Bathsheba writes to Ezra, hey, when you graduate from high school, come back here, because the plan is afoot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So by the time Joshua Spooner gets back from his business trip to Brookfield, these British soldiers have been staying in their house, in the Spooner house for more than a week. Sleeping in nice beds, eating great food whenever they want, running up an enormous tab at the local tavern under Joshua Spooner's name, the whole nine. Joshua finds this out. He's irate at his wife for letting these British soldiers into their home. He kicks them out. But William and James don't go anywhere. They just hang around town, lurking, laying low, waiting for the opportunity to strike. And then on February 28, Ezra Ross quietly arrives back in Brookfield and joins up with the two British soldiers. And now we're back to the day this all started, which is the cold, dark night of March 1st. And 37 year old Joshua Spooner Just arriving from home from the tavern around 9 o' clock that night, he goes onto his property. He approaches the back entrance, and that's where Ezra, William and James appear out of the darkness and ambush him. They beat him and they strangle him to death.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then they carry his body over to the well and they throw him down into it headfirst. And the idea is that because Joshua has a reputation for heavy drinking, people will think he accidentally stumbled and fell into the well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry, ligature marks from a fall.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just all of it in our forensic files. Know how these days, it's like you rubes from the Revolutionary War. You don't know how to mur. But also, I love the idea of, like, the odds of a drunk person stumbling and falling into a hole smaller than really, their own shoulders, probably.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or the same size. Don't go through the hole. You're falling. Okay. So before they do drop Joshua's body into the well, they take his fancy watch, his ring, his silver shoe buckles, which have his initials engraved on them, and, like, basically keep it for themselves. Then when they're done, they go into the house where Bathsheba Spooner is waiting. James Buchanan will later testify that she seemed, quote, utterly confused, which could imply a state of shock, or as some historians have wondered, the throes of an undiagnosed mental health crisis that's basically kind of like, at its apex with this, you know, horrible event. She gives the men a thick stack of cash as well as a few pieces of clothing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not so confused that she doesn't pay them off for killing her husband.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's not catatonic. Yeah, exactly. She's. I can't deal with this. Nine, ten, that's it for you. And she also gives them clothes from Joshua's closet. So she's in on the. On the coverup.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So confusing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can take his vest and his boots. At around 11 o', clock, Ezra, William and James, all wearing Joshua's clothes, riding his horses, or the Spooner's horses, Skip town, head 20 miles out toward, of course, the star of this show, Worcester. They arrive at an Inn around 4am of course, the innkeepers immediately sense something's off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Don't go at 4am Wait till 9 in the morning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Middle of the night, with big silver buckles on your.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And, like, clothes that don't fit you correctly. What happens?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, streaks of mud on your cheeks. Yeah. And of course, acting very, very strangely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was gonna say paying in cash, but they didn't have any Other way to pay back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Back then there was no cards, no gift cards, no tabs. Paying in dirty, dirty cash.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I guess. Gold. Do they pay in gold?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but I think that would count as cash. That wouldn't stand out as much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So writer Deborah Nava suggests that all of these actors in this murder are dealing with their guilt and their regret, and then it's just coming out in their own ways. So Ezra is despondent. He refuses to give the innkeepers his name. He immediately isolates himself in a bedroom church and just did the funniest eye roll to me like she. She hates Ezra so much. Like fucking Ezra.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Of course he does. Like you fucking did the crime and now it doesn't matter how horrible you feel afterwards.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, you got all high on being in the murder group and then they

[Georgia Hardstark]

could have probably done it without you, bro. But you wanted to prove your 16 year old ass to your fucking 31 year old lover.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, he had a hot MILF lover. He was willing to go the distance, but now he's despondent and listener. We're just telling you, that's how it always goes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whether it's murder or just taking people to weddings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's on your permanent record. That nerd and you spending time with them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's in the photos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your family talks about it. Okay. William and James, on the other hand, immediately go to the Inns Tavern, buy alcohol, and just start drinking their way into the early daylight hours.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's the way to deal with your regrets.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for, like an adult. Except for they wear the silver shoe buckles and the jewelry and the clothing. So they couldn't be drawing more attention to themselves as they're trying to have a nice escape from reality. Drink. So the average person in the colonies would just never have the wealth to afford silver shoe buckles with their own engraved initials on them or whatever. Especially not a pair of British deserters, which I'm sure is kind of pretty obvious right away. So by the afternoon, the men have raised so much suspicion, the authorities are notified. Meanwhile, back in Brookfield, there's already a swirl of suspicion around Bathsheba because she, of course, the very next day had morning visitors because she's a lady of the, you know, of the elite. And when they show up and ask where Joshua is, she just burst into tears. So they're just kind of like, are you okay? And they start looking for him and they find his body in the well, right. Ladies who were just there for some nice tea and tiny Sandwiches. And suddenly they're like, we just found your husband dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. They're like, is mercury in retrograde or what? Cause I'm having lunch. Bad day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Joshua's body is pulled from the well. Dr. Jonathan King, his friend who was walking home with him the night before from the tavern. He shows up to examine the corpse and he notes the signs of strangulation and injuries consistent with being beaten. He testifies later that Joshua hadn't seemed all that drunk when they left the tavern and walked home together. Pretty crucial element to this story. And that's of course in direct contrast to the idea that Joshua was so drunk that he walked in big circles and fell down a well. Almost impossible unless he sat down and then started singing and maybe fell backwards. But wouldn't you just kind of fold

[Georgia Hardstark]

like that, stop, and then start screaming, get me out of here?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know. So less than 24 hours after Joshua Spooner's murder, his wife Bathsheba, the young soldier Ezra Ross, Private William Brooks and Sergeant James Buchanan have all been arrested as suspects in his murder. The joint trial begins. So now you're on trial with two strangers and you're Teenage lover.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God, yeah, that was quick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That begins late April 1778. It becomes, of course, a huge sensation. First of all, it's the wealth, the scandal, the violence at play. But it truly is one of the first times. Like in the official newborn two year old America, there has been a murder trial. The prosecution is led by a man named Robert Treat Payne. He's one of the signees of the Declaration of Independence.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I knew that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe you've heard of it?

[Ashlyn Harris]

It.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ask your friend Nicholas Cage if you don't know. And then the defense is led by a man named Levi Lincoln. No relation, but he would later serve as President Thomas Jefferson's Attorney General. So it's not only one of the first capital murder cases tried in the United States, but because Levi Lincoln will attempt to paint Bathsheba Spooner as mentally unwell at the time of the murder. It's also believed to be one of the first times the insanity defense is used. Yeah, interesting, given the patriotic backdrop of Massachusetts at the time, the involvement of two British soldiers, and the infamy of Bathsheba's loyalist father makes this trial inherently political. And of course, everybody has big opinions about it. Levi Lincoln urges the jurors to look past their, quote, political feelings. But the evidence is overwhelming. The trial quickly ends and four guilty verdicts are turned in. All of them are sentenced to death and they're scheduled to hang on June 4, 1778. And this is when Bathsheba begs the court to delay her execution, to spare the life of her unborn child.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The gallery gasps. That's not true. I put that in. I don't know when she told them or how. Could have been in a letter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet there was a gasp somewhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I bet someone gasped. Even if it was just someone somewhere, the secretary of the person that opened that letter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So at the time, common law protects fetuses if there have been signs of what they used to call the court, which is basically when the mother can feel the baby. It happens usually between the fourth and fifth month of pregnancy. So if she really did get pregnant sometime in January, which is when she told Ezra that she was pregnant, this would put her in the correct timeframe. And there are theories that Bathsheba is lying about being pregnant just to buy herself time, but either way, it works. The execution date gets pushed to July 2, and then in the interim, she is examined, and she's examined many times to determine whether she's pregnant by a panel of midwives that the court puts together.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is as bad as you are anticipating. Humiliating. Also needlessly painful. It's as gross as you can think of it to be. And it's described by one contemporary as, quote, indecent and cruel.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the end, the panel concludes that she is not pregnant, but Bathsheba appeals and she hires her own midwife to conduct her own. And then that midwife concludes she is pregnant. So the court sides with their own panel. Surprisingly, no. It's been like this all along. And they reject Bathsheba's pregnancy claims. So on July 2, 1788, 17 year old Ezra Ross, 27 year old William Brooks, 36 year old James Buchanan and 32 year old Bathsheba Ruggles Spooner are brought to the gallows. Bathsheba demands that they perform an autopsy on her body after she is hanged to prove the existence of her unborn child. Which is like, I'll be looking down at all of you as you martyr me. Okay, so outside of that discussion, which I imagined to happen in a darkened tunnel, but probably didn't, 5,000 people have gathered to watch this hanging, you guys. A small town has gathered, which is funny, because that. What was that at the beginning? Was that Widow's Bay at the beginning when all the people are there and they're cheering for the hanging? Or is that just another movie I was watching?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wuthering Heights?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was Wuthering Heights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Molly is dialed in on Kim's brain.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She knows. Well, because we've been talking about Wuthering Heights, and I mistakenly thought that Molly, like, loved it. And so then we watched it to be like, other people hate it, but Molly seems to love it. Let's check it out. And then we were like, oh, this is good. We like it. Yeah, I really liked it. People love their books.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They really do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The children love the books. Okay. So outside, 5,000 people gather to watch this hanging. The man who signs the execution warrant is John Avery Jr. Who was Joshua's stepbrother. Testimony from the execution describes the onset of, quote, one of the most terrified thunderstorms that occurred within the memory of anyone living. End quote. And they say that that storm, quote, came up and darkened the heavens, conspiring to produce a SC of most dreadful horror. So as they're walking to the gallows, black cloud rolls in. Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God is pissed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shortly after the executions, an autopsy is performed on Bathsheba's body. And the physician finds a, quote, perfect male fetus of the growth of five months. Completely correct. That's. The panel lied. The panel lied.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oof.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The clouds told you, but you wouldn't listen. Okay. When word gets out that Massachusetts has just executed a pregnant woman, the public is horrified.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And over time, this is a plot

[Georgia Hardstark]

twist I did not see coming.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, because you're kind of like, oh, she's bad, she's bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the crime. They killed him. And here's the execution. It's like. But wait.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, but hold on one second. So the real controversy most associated with this case over, like, history. Cause in the beginning, of course, it was the usual moralizing about the risks of adultery and evil women having their way and being free spirited and loud and all the things that are so

[Georgia Hardstark]

terrible about sexually abusing a child. But don't worry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that is very. Seen the risks of adultery and evil women using dumb men. But it's actually lived on as a cautionary tale about how the biases around politics and gender seep into the justice system. Bathsheba herself has increasingly been treated with more and more empathy as the years pass. And sympathy, I should say. But. But no one doubts she wanted her husband dead or that she conspired to kill him. But contemporary historians mull over the extreme circumstances of her life that led up to the crime. Her marriage was stifling, and it likely involved domestic abuse. The double standard in how women who commit adultery are treated versus the men who commit adultery. Not to mention Bathsheba's grief around being basically cut off from her father, him being going from being an incredibly respected man to an all out pariah. And then that reverberating into her life, people judging her and her being socially isolated because of all that. In the end, the Spooner's children end up being adopted by relatives. And it seems they most likely escape all the notoriety that is around this case. A few years after his daughter's execution, Bathsheba's father, Timothy Ruggles, dies in exile in Canada in his early 80s. And the well that they put Joshua Spooner's body into is actually still standing in Brookfield, Massachusetts, according to the Brookfield Historical Commission. Although they say it's obscured by thick poison ivy much of the year. AKA stay the fuck away from the well. And that is the story of the first murder in America. The murder of Joshua Spooner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow, that's crazy. That's heavy. Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a great one for the fourth of July, right? It's coming up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do your homework, everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They don't tell you this shit in school.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Support for today's episode comes from Square.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody starts a business because they love

[Karen Kilgariff]

payroll or invoices or business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's why they're Square.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Square brings your payments, inventory, scheduling, staff, online orders and reporting together in one connected system.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can take payments in person, online or on the go, and track sales and inventory in real time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Instead of juggling a bunch of different apps, Square keeps everything connected behind the scenes scenes so you're spending less time fixing problems.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whether you're just getting started or growing your business, Square is designed to grow with you without complicated setup contracts or hidden fees.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you're starting a business or running one that deserves better tools, Square helps you sell, manage and grow without slowing down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right now, you can get up to 200 off square hardware at square.com go

[Karen Kilgariff]

mfm that's s q u a r-e.com

[Georgia Hardstark]

fm run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. Goodbye. Mine is about a hundred years later only. Okay, a little later, I think right after the Civil War. When did the Civil War end, Molly? I might be lying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

1853?

[Georgia Hardstark]

6. 1865. We were both right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So should we get our high school diplomas again?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On the show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't wanna take that test in front of everyone. We're gonna fucking fail. Are you kidding me? That'd be humiliating. It's a fan cult video of us trying to pass the ged. Get our ged. No, rather talk about my modeling photos.

[Sponsor Voice]

Come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. The people love the fucking modeling photos. We have to talk about that. People are going crazy for that entire thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They really met you at that vulnerability that you revealed for them. It's really nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I appreciate that. That's really nice. So here we go. We're getting into the country's 250th anniversary, as you know right now. Definitely now we're gonna go back to the centennial, which is 1876, and we're gonna be in Kentucky. Great. Today's story is an unexplained phenomenon that's straight out of an episode of Bananas Weird News.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And this one is in the genre of weird stuff falling from the sky. Like when I covered the Oakville blobs in episode 429, where unidentified goo fell out of the sky in the 80s in Washington state. But today in our story, there's a bit more progress made in identifying the stuff that actually fell from the sky. So good as big of a mystery. This is the story of the Kentucky Meat shower.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I've heard of this. Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, Meat shower.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Meat shower.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's meditate on meat shower.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're just out in a Kentucky field, roaming through hip high grass and love and light, and then splat, boom. Right on your face, there's a prime rib.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The main sources for the story are articles from Scientific America and Atlas Obscura. And the rest of the sources can be found in our show Notes and Cook's Illustrated and Cloudy with a Chance of meatballs. So it's March 3, 1876, and we're in Olympian Springs, Kentucky. It's a small rural community in bath county about 50 miles east of Lexington, Kentucky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A woman named Rebecca Crouch is in the front yard of her family farm making soap as you had to do

[Karen Kilgariff]

back then, mixing some lye with some tallow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. Which is a time and labor intensive chore done by boiling rendered animal fat on an open fire and combining it with lye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How do you think I used to spend my summers?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. You're a farm girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Country girl.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have you read the book Yesteryear yet?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's great. You should read it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But there's a soap making scene in it. That's all I know about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it sexy?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, forget it. Very not sexy. It's about a trad wife blogger who gets taken back into the time when she would have actually work as a trad, like, had to do the things, like make soap. Like and make bread fresh instead. And like, that's genius. So good. Yesteryear. It's getting made into a movie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like, that's hilarious. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So as Mrs. Crouch is working, she begins to see what she'll later describe as a substance that looks a bit like snowflakes falling out of the sky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Snowflakes is fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's no big deal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it's sunny and warm out. There's no snow. This isn't snowflakes. It's a cloudless day. And some of the flakes are very big. She describes them as being, quote, as long as my hand and about half an inch wide. So as long as my hand, the big one's in, like, half an inch wide. So take some big pieces of meat. I'm sorry, it's meat. I already. It's meat. Spoiler. It's fucking meat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's meat. Meat flakes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Meat flakes. Oh, there's a really great drawing of the whole thing. If you just don't have the imagination for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love this so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's take a look.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The artist is James Fosdyke.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Brilliant.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's James Fosdyk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You sure can draw gristle. I don't like the look of those meat clumps that are falling on her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It looks like a children's book.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So if you're watching on Netflix, you can see this. If you're not, you should be. It's good. So as everything gathers on her yard and she inspects them further, Mrs. Crouch realizes that they look not unlike the stuff she's making her soap out of. Animal flesh, like meats or bits of fatty connective tissue. She said, quote, it looked grisly, as if it had been torn from the throat of some animal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good Lord.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Crouch family cat and dog are fucking stoked. They come running and they start going to town.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do we know the names of those pets?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, but let's name them now for history's sake.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Snowflake, Snowflake and Petey Gristle. I had a friend whose dog was named Gristle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a great name for a dog that I just met.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or was it in, like, a movie?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Probably both. Okay, so they're. They're losing their minds, eating all of this. The family hogs and chickens get in on the action, too, and eat a

[Karen Kilgariff]

lot of what was fallen and cannibalize themselves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, we don't know exactly what the animal is, so. Okay, okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's human meat, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, it's not cannibalism, it's human.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The chickens are like, finally we get our say.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've been feeding the crows freeze dried chickens, which feels bad, but they love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're gonna take over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're gonna take the keys to your home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They can.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. A few days later, just by the by, the dog does get a bit sick, but we don't know if it's connected. And it doesn't seem like any of the other animals do either, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Cause the dog ran over and bit, like, ate some gristle and then he ran over there and he ate a big cow pie. Exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So in all, about 200 pounds of this meat, like, substance falls for about a minute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A grown man's worth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So true. Oh, the sound, the slop.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And just one lady trying to make some soap. What the fuck?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus Christ. It seems like this event is pretty much limited to the area around Mrs. Crouch's house. And she says that the meat smells fresh when it had just fallen. But throughout the day it starts to go off. And by the next day, the little flakes are all dried out. So it does what meat does. The event attracts national media attention and several samples are saved. One is sent to Louisville for analysis, while another is sent to Washington D.C. also, a correspondent for the New York Herald goes to visit the Crouch farm. This reporter goes all around town interviewing people about the phenomenon, asking if Mrs. Crouch is full of shit. Basically.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, she's full of shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But no, everyone is like, this is not a woman who, like, she's making soap. She doesn't have a lot of time for joking around and like, pranks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She handles lies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With no gloves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's a fucking farmer. Like she's not making shit up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Do not even.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And while there is some investigation going on in the article, it does seem like a lot of it is just a reporter making fun of the members of this very rural community. He's kind of a dick about it. He's probably pissed that he got sent all the way out there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what he's saying, like, people are kind of dumb or. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or he's making stuff up because some of the conversations in the article are just. Don't seem like conversations people have. But, you know, it was the 1870s, so what do I know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fill it up. Fill up that article, Rusty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. We need 2,000 words. So he bargains with a railroad laborer named Jimmy Welsh to eat a dollar's worth of the meat. No, like, just so he could get some fucking Color for his article.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he's saying, if you eat this lump of gristle, I will pay you

[Georgia Hardstark]

a dollar that fell how many days ago?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also, sorry, but can we do a. Do. What is a dollar worth back then? Oh, $1. 1876. $1. Going to go?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. You go first. And then Molly will.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Would that be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm going to guess too. I can guess too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can too. We're all in this now. I'm going to say $31.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. I'm going to say 50. Karen is just AI overview. But it says $31.

[Ashlyn Harris]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I had to ask for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That looks like I set this whole thing up because I demanded it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't believe that you would use something like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have we ever had a dead on one?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think once. And this is yours. Congratulations. Drop the streamers. Drop the streamers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You've been hiding up this well, I guess I've tried so hard for so long to guess the numbers. I'm really bad at it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I couldn't have done it without Elvis.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aw.

[Karen Kilgariff]

His necklace. Molly's like, could you please do your job?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was cute.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is your child.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is my job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you believe it? This is your job. Good job getting this job. Thank you making this job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Thank you creating this job. I applied and then I called back two weeks later and I said, hey, I am a bad interview, but I know I can do this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. So we're in the moment when he's given $31 for this poor guy named Jimmy to eat this meat, which is probably a lot of money. He's a railroad laborer. That's a lot of money. At this point, it's been about a week after the meat first fell from the sky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jimmy's got a tummy ache.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, journalist writes, quote, the article was ordered and placed before him the meat. He then hesitated and said he was not hungry. I then told him I would give him $3 to gulp it down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

90 then 93.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. He then suddenly remembered that it was the season of Lent and backed out on moral principles. So he.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jimmy. Jimmy chickened out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jimmy chickened out or muttoned out. We don't really know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what he did? He dumbed his way in to a thing. Why were you ever sitting at that table? It's disgusting and risky.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't do it. Drinking alcohol. There's no way alcohol wasn't involved.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just met some guy at a bar.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So the meat is sent to Several different agencies for testing in Kentucky and also out of state. There's a man named Leopold Brandeis whose qualifications are unclear. Same.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, he has his own college. Does that count?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Does he? Brandeis? Oh, yeah, university. He analyzes a sample that's been preserved in glycerin. And he publishes his findings in the Scientific American because I guess that anyone could throw anything in there now saying he believes the substance is something called gnostic. Have you heard of gnostic?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Only in the Bible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or gnostic G, N O, N O S, T O C. No, I've never heard of that. Basically, it's a bacteria that swells up into a jelly like substance when it rains. I went to Wikipedia and it said that, quote, the word itself is a combination of the English nostril and German nasenlach, which means nose hole or nostril. But because, basically, because it looks like snot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's disgusting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And when it lands on the ground, I have a photo of it.

[Ashlyn Harris]

Great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here we go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, it just looks like seaweed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That looks like kelp.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It looks like kelp. It looks like. Oh, I have a photo of Mrs. Crouch too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, perfect.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit. We're all guessing she's 50, but that's in today's money. She's probably 27.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, listener, Mrs. Crouch took a photo smartly with a parasol on her shoulder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Parasol. And her hand on her fucking head. Hip.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's doing it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's making it happen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Come at me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She says, this is Crouch. Now she has to use an umbrella because there's fucking Gnostics falling all over the place.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet that was the journalist idea. That's so true. Okay, but the problem with this theory is that of course, the weather was fine and clear. So it's not that. Other testers believe that the meat is lung tissue either from a horse or a human infant, which is fucking insane. And everyone just moves on from the States. Please. No. Like, nobody's. Like, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, because there was 200 pounds of it, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And actually when Mrs. Crouch first sees it falling, she had said she had, quote, a vague idea that my husband and son who were away had been torn to pieces and their remains were being brought home to me in this way by the wind. End quote. So she needed some Xanax before this even fucking happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and after the Civil War. So maybe she saw some stuff and then she was like, this reminds me of human.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tragedy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And then they probably still believe in God back then. So they're like, that guy works in mysterious ways.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely. Like throwing meat through the weather as a punishment. Go to church, Mrs. Crouch. That's very weird, though, because I think that idea of looking at something completely foreign and immediately attributing it to a certain place is meaningful because it's like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And also that, like, you're being punished in some way for something. Yeah, that's like. We understand how that works. But multiple testers believe that they might be human. This is so dumb. People think that two or more men may have killed each other somewhere in a nearby knife fight. And then the wind picked up all the remains and tornado dropped. It was just like, stupid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They slash each other to ribbons. Without bones, they become those car.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Those car dealership guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can set one of those car dealership guys that dances around to any song and I will laugh my ass off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so funny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so a humor writer back then named William Livingston Eldon writes in the New York Times that the meat might have come from space and maybe exploded animal matter from another planet. Boo. Let's stop talking about dumb theories.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's not ask any old 4th grader what they think.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here's a dumb theory that is probably true, okay? The theory that most locals arrive at and that most people still believe to this day is that the meat had been eaten by vultures somewhere far off, partially digested. And then when vultures get scared, they vomit the contents of their stomach out. So vultures maybe had eaten something. They were in flight, something startled them, and they barfed all their. The meat onto this one spot. That's the only. To me, that's the only solution that isn't paranormal. That makes sense.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It makes perfect sense. Mang introduced the idea that they got scared by a pterodactyl, a leftover dinosaur.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, what? If they got scared by a ufo, then we're back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If they got scared by the Loch Ness monster, we're back. Now I'm interested in the story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So actually, you're right. That might be the reason. But we don't know why and what scared them. And it's probably sci fi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It feels good, though, that there's something normal that you can tell me that possibly could happen. Because the agitation I feel, not being able to think of even how possibly this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, because your brain goes to airplane, and then your brain is like, that's stupid. It's 1870.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. And then you start going. But I saw a show on Netflix where they actually pulled those things over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The enduring mystery, though, is that Mrs. Crouch was standing right in her yard. She didn't see any of these vultures, but who knows? It could have flown that way. She might not have seen them. They were very high. Who knows what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just. I would love to keep that list going. She had bad vision. She was a liar. The soap blinded her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She had eaten some fucking magic mushrooms from their farm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The whole thing was fake.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So here's the fun part. In the early 2000s, there's an art professor named Kurt Goad who takes a

[Karen Kilgariff]

job at Kentucky's oldest university, Kentucky University of Ancient History.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So close. Transylvania University of Lexington, Kentucky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nuh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In Lexington, Kentucky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. No. There is not a vampire college.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a vampire college.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he's. And right around that time that he starts this job, he reads a book about strange weather phenomenon and is thrilled. This guy's like, an adorable weirdo.

[Ashlyn Harris]

Great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's like an art teacher, but seems like the kind of high school science teacher that makes you interested in science. And you become a scientist and you're like, the only reason is because Mr. Goad told me that I could be anything. And so I did it. And that women are in science too. And so I did. You know, like, he just is one of those. He also. He's kind of like if Vince had an older brother who was a professor. He kind of looks like him, actually, with. Oh, he's kind of got a hot, zaddy vibe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, hell yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. So we love him. He reads a book about this thing happening, and he's shocked to learn that, like, nobody from there knows about the meat showers. And he's like, this is exciting. And it kind of becomes an obsession of his. Just by luck, a few Years later, in 2004, he is cleaning out a storage university at Transylvania University when he happens upon a small, clear, very old vial filled with yellowy liquid. In the liquid is suspended a white hunk of something, and the faded label reads, olympia Springs. Kurt has found at this fucking college that he started teaching at. The last known sample of the meat. And he's overjoyed. I have a photo of it. And I have one for you right here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. I'll try it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Actually, the thing behind you kind of looks like it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For $31 to get a little bit of that going. You know what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so gross. Here's a photo of the vial with the, like, gross tendony looking. How much to drink that liquid?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess for me right now in my life, it would have to be roughly $3 million?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Ashlyn Harris]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But how much would I have to drink?

[Georgia Hardstark]

How about a sip, Chew that shit in the bottom or drink, chew and spit out that shit in the bottom, in the swallow or drink the liquid. Pick one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Drink the liquid. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause it's. And you're in. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The chewing is what's gonna give you true trauma. Cause you're gonna be like remembering anytime you chew anything and then like infants and stuff. But also, wouldn't you just die?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You also don't have to do either of those things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, now I want to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I am not even drinking. Okay. He's so excited. Cause he's this nerd and he. So he works with a professor in the biology department to try to test the sample, but it's too degraded and they can't find a conclusive finding. It's 2004, so it's like the dark. But Kurt is an artist and he's more interested in the multi sensory experience

[Karen Kilgariff]

of the phenomenon of drinking and eating

[Georgia Hardstark]

it, rather than continuing to pursue clear cut answers. So he sends the vial to a lab in Cincinnati that analyzes flavor compounds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then he uses that flavor information to make jelly beans that essentially taste like whatever it was. To have people help him figure out what the meat was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like that's a very art teacher solution.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's exactly what it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like if I was involved with that, it would be on par with the first time I had a popcorn jelly belly. Have you ever eaten that flavor? The butter? Yeah, Buttered popcorn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Any like the weird jelly belly flavors that came out in the like 90s? The kids today don't know. Like, that wasn't a thing before it was just like fruit flavored jelly beans. God, I sound so old.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It really was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But they really. When Jelly belly came out with these like crazy flavors, we were. Our minds were blown.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then you like mix the coconut with the popcorn one and like

[Karen Kilgariff]

in third grade saying, I just had tried a Mai Tai. But also there were some flavors that were so upsetting that like, he's basically walking people into. Come and eat an upsetting thing with me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Cause I wanna learn for science, for learning's sake. So it's like adorable. Okay, okay. So he actually passes them out. There's a big festival called Kentucky Court dance. And in 2007, he passes them out. Responses are varied. Multiple people said the beans tasted like bacon. Another person said it was like a strawberry pork chop.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, he's trying to do like, everybody gets to have a vote to figure out what this is.

[Ashlyn Harris]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, what kind of meat is this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I see. Sorry. I was thinking he was doing it scientifically, but also through jelly beans, where I'm just like, no, no, no, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's having fun with the whole thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But nobody wanted to try a second jelly bean to find out that's how bad they were. And I think he still has some leftover almost 20 years later. So fast forward to now, and Kurt is still obsessed with the Kentucky Meat Shower. And in fact, just last this February that just happened in 2026, it was the 150th anniversary of the Kentucky Meat Shower. Oh. And he celebrates with a little festival in town which includes there's a meatball toss, there's hot dogs, of course, and a bologna throwing contest. Like, he's just having fun with his wife. So this whole festival that he creates culminates in the second ever Kentucky Meat Shower. He has a small airplane drop. 1876, which is the year it happened. Individually wrapped pieces of beef jerky from the sky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love this, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's video of it. They look like snowflakes the way he wraps them. And they come down. He's. It's so. It's so whimsical.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, right? And fun. Yeah. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And each package has a number on it. And then the people who pick them up can go to his website, which is called fleshfalls.com and claim prizes based on those numbers, including a gift card to a local cafe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, get me out of LA is what I think. That's what this is. A plea for me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And a necklace by a local artist, as well as a signed book by humorist, author and journalist Dave Barry, who wrote about the event in his substack and seemed charmed by. So the specimen is now housed in Transylvania U's Monroe Moonsick Medical and Science Museum.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you work at the Monroe Medical, Music and Medical Science Museum, will you please reach out to us? Because we want to hear, are you real? Is Transylvania real? Is any of this real?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we have a private tour?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And will you send us merch?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And will you send us meat sticks?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And will you send us merch? I want merch for Transylvania coffee. College sweatshirts, please.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dave Barry writes about it that the museum, quote, houses many 19th century scientific and medical artifacts, including a hairball 14 inches in diameter that was removed from the stomach of a cow. Uh huh. And a quote, tobacco smoke clyster, which is a device that doctors once used to try to revive drowning victims by blowing tobacco smoke up their butts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then he writes, I am not making any of this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That sounds like it's the Mutter Museum or the Mutter. I don't know how to pronounce it. But like, a medical history museum is a fascinating for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Especially a small one. Yeah. Specialized and Dracula and Transylvania. I'm going to end on a quote from Dave Barry that he has defined a sense of humor as. Quote. A measurement of the extent to which we realize that we are trapped in a world almost totally devoid of reason. Laughter is how we express the anxiety we feel at this knowledge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, Dave.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that is the story of the Kentucky Meat shower.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

True crime murder podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell yes. Year 10. Year 10 in the fall of fascism, when the world around us has turned to living hell.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. When women are getting imprisoned for taking out. No, we're not going there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, Jesus. But we are there. We don't have to go anywhere. We're fucking here. Yes, we've been talking about it for a while. And in the meantime of all this bullshit, we're gonna tell each other about delightful things and horrible things and things we feel we need to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As of yesterday, we are no longer the only true crime podcast. So you're welcome to go listen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did that just happen? Yeah, there's a couple more have popped up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we had a great run being the only ones. Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now we're gonna be doing this weird shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So buckle the fuck up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

People are like, we are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We listen to the end of this episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What do you want us to do?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why are you mad at us?

[Karen Kilgariff]

How much more do we have to listen to you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, we love you guys. If you've listened to this point, you're a real one and we fucking appreciate the shit out of you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're the realest ones and we're all

[Georgia Hardstark]

trying and you're doing great. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squillacci.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our Researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com

[Karen Kilgariff]

and follow the show on Instagram yfavoritemurder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now you can watch My favorite Murder on Netflix.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And. And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me, Buttons. That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye.