MFM Minisode 421

Summary

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark Episode: MFM Minisode 421 Release Date: February 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

In MFM Minisode 421, hosts Karen Kilgariff and guest Casey O'Brien delve into a series of riveting true crime stories, personal anecdotes, and listener submissions. The episode weaves together professional experiences, family secrets, and dramatic narratives, offering listeners a blend of suspense, humor, and heartfelt moments. Below is a detailed summary capturing the episode's key segments, discussions, and memorable quotes.

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1. Karen's Hometown Case: Nicole Holm and Tibus Kennep

[02:15 - 05:46]

Karen Kilgariff opens the episode by sharing a deeply personal true crime story from her hometown of Fort Collins, Colorado. Her father, a detective in the Crimes Against Persons Unit, played a pivotal role in solving the case of Nicole Holm.

• Case Details: On September 9, 1998, Nicole Holm was brutally attacked and murdered in her apartment. Initially, her boyfriend was arrested for a traffic violation, but the case took a turn when Nicole sought help, leading to the encounter with Tibus Kennep.

• Investigation: Kennep was identified as a suspect due to his suspicious behavior and a noticeable gold chain, believed to be Nicole's necklace. Despite initial reluctance to detain him without concrete evidence, Kennep fled, leading to a nine-month manhunt.

• Breakthrough: A woman in Livingston, Guatemala, recognized Kennep's tattoo—spelling "fear" on his knuckles—and contacted the FBI, resulting in his extradition.

• Conviction and Reflection: With DNA evidence and a confession from Kennep, he was convicted of first-degree sexual assault and murder, later dying by suicide in prison. Karen reflects on the impact of her father's work and honors Nicole Holm's legacy in psychology.

Notable Quote:

"I recently realized I've been professionally interrogated my whole life." — Karen Kilgariff [02:24]

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2. Listener Story: Living in a Serial Killer's House

[06:11 - 09:30]

Casey O'Brien shares a chilling listener-submitted story about her father's experience renting a house with a dark history.

• Background: In the 1980s, Casey's father rented an affordable house in Livingston, Guatemala, previously owned by notorious serial killer Pee Wee Gaskins.

• House Details: Each bedroom featured its own fireplace, and accessing the kitchen stove required crawling under the house, limiting cooking to microwaves—a setup that raised red flags.

• Encounter with Gaskins: Neighbors reported sightings of Gaskins on the roof, and Casey's father discovered a large pile of shoes in the crawl space, heightening suspicions.

• Outstanding Thoughts: While the story borders on sensation, Casey appreciates the connection to true crime passion and jokes about the impracticalities of the house's features.

Notable Quote:

"Stay sexy and maybe don't live in a serial killer's house. Regardless of how cheap it is in this economy." — Casey O'Brien [08:50]

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3. Karen's Family Secret Unveiled

[10:02 - 12:19]

Karen recounts an unexpected discovery while creating a family tree for her husband's relatives.

• The Discovery: While piecing together birth and wedding dates, Karen noticed discrepancies suggesting that her husband's father was born just seven months after his grandparents' wedding date, indicating an unplanned pregnancy.

• Family Reactions: Upon finding a newspaper clipping confirming the grandparents' December 1969 wedding and the father's July 1970 birth, the family acknowledged the likely pregnancy, revealing a hidden family secret.

• Emotional Impact: Karen reflects on uncovering the truth inadvertently and the humorous yet awkward family dynamics that ensued.

Notable Quote:

"I unknowingly uncovered a family secret... just the first holiday, just fucking coming in, shredding that pit." — Karen Kilgariff [11:24]

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4. Casey's Personal Journey: From Convent to Counseling

[12:20 - 16:58]

Casey delves into her personal history with high-control religion and her brief stint in a convent.

• Early Life: Raised in a loosely Catholic household with challenging family dynamics, including divorced, alcoholic parents and significant childhood trauma.

• Religious Involvement: Seeking structure and community, Casey became deeply involved in a charismatic Catholic youth group, eventually entering the convent at 21.

• Convent Life: Describes a regimented life of silence, prayer, and teaching duties, including unexpected activities like ultimate frisbee.

• Leaving the Convent: After nine months, Casey realized that the convent life wasn't for her, leading to a broader deconstruction of high-control religious environments.

• Therapeutic Advocacy: Now a master's student in clinical mental health counseling, Casey emphasizes the importance of therapy and mental health advocacy, thanking MFM for its supportive community.

Notable Quote:

"After about nine months, I decided to leave, which is fairly common in the first couple of years as young women are figuring out if it's truly a good fit." — Casey O'Brien [15:39]

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5. Karen's Short Story: "My Klepto Dad"

[16:58 - 19:22]

Karen shares a brief yet impactful story about her father's kleptomania.

• Childhood Experience: As a child, Karen received various trinkets from her father, believing them to be gifts from "nice ladies."

• The Truth Revealed: Realizing later that these items were stolen, Karen grapples with the betrayal of her father's actions conflicting with her upbringing to be honest.

• Emotional Impact: The discovery of her father's theft, symbolized by her favorite butterfly keychain ending up in the garbage, marks a poignant moment of childhood innocence lost.

Notable Quote:

"It broke my little honest heart, as, of course, I was always taught not to lie or steal anything." — Karen Kilgariff [17:08]

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6. Casey's Wedding Drama: The Saga of Cousin Jen

[19:27 - 25:02]

Casey narrates an elaborate listener-submitted story about her cousin Jen's tumultuous wedding history.

• Wedding One: At age two, Casey caused a scene during a family wedding in Jamaica, leading to a memorable yet embarrassing family anecdote.

  Notable Quote:

  "I was a nightmare the entire time and threw a full temper tantrum during the ceremony." — Casey O'Brien [20:14]

• Wedding Two: As a junior bridesmaid, Casey highlights the escalating drama that contributed to her aunt and uncle's impending divorce, exacerbated by Uncle John's inappropriate behavior.

• Wedding Three: A seemingly perfect wedding aboard a river ferry unraveled when it was discovered that no legal paperwork had been filed, invalidating the marriage and resulting in accusations of deceit and demands for gift returns.

• Wedding Four: Defying the pandemic and past controversies, Jen attempted a fourth wedding. Her conservative beliefs, including skepticism towards vaccines despite healthcare backgrounds, further alienated family members. The lack of support and enduring family tensions underscored the challenges of reconciling relationships post-drama.

• Current Reflections: Despite the chaos, Casey expresses optimism as Jen prepares for her own marriage in 2025, envisioning a drama-free union and humorously anticipating residual familial tensions.

Notable Quote:

"This screaming toddler turned junior bridesmaid turned non-attendee is all grown up. My fiancé is the kindest, most emotionally intelligent, wonderful man I know, and I can't wait to marry him." — Casey O'Brien [24:17]

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7. Final Thoughts and Listener Engagement

[25:02 - 27:21]

Concluding the episode, Karen and Casey encourage listeners to share their own hometown stories and family dramas via email and social media. They emphasize the importance of community, shared experiences, and the therapeutic nature of storytelling within the MFM community.

Notable Quote:

"Tell us about the person that you would warn other people about if they came to your family party. And tell us why everything about like, what they've done." — Karen Kilgariff [26:30]

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Key Takeaways

• Personal Connections to Crime: Both hosts intertwine personal experiences with true crime narratives, highlighting how deeply crime and family histories can impact individuals.

• Family Secrets and Dynamics: Uncovering hidden truths within families can lead to profound emotional revelations and shift relational dynamics.

• The Power of Storytelling: Sharing personal and listener-submitted stories serves as a coping mechanism and fosters a sense of community among listeners.

• Mental Health Advocacy: Casey's journey underscores the significance of mental health support and the role of therapy in overcoming personal challenges.

• Humor Amidst Tragedy: The hosts balance heavy topics with humor, making difficult subjects more approachable and relatable.

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Conclusion

MFM Minisode 421 offers a compelling mix of true crime storytelling, personal anecdotes, and engaging discussions on family dynamics and mental health. Karen Kilgariff and Casey O'Brien adeptly navigate through somber narratives and lighthearted exchanges, providing listeners with an enriching and entertaining experience. Whether delving into cold cases or unraveling family mysteries, the episode reinforces the enduring human fascination with crime, secrets, and the stories that shape us.

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• Listen Weekly: Subscribe to MFM Minisodes and full episodes on your preferred podcast platform.

Stay Sexy and Don’t Get Murdered!

Transcript

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Millie De Chirico]

I'm Millie De Chirico. I'm a film programmer, historian and writer.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I'm Casey O'Brien, podcast producer, filmmaker and lover of movies.

[Millie De Chirico]

And now we're teaming up on a brand new podcast called Dear Movies. I love you.

[Casey O'Brien]

We want to talk about all the movies we're crushing on, from hidden gems to blockbuster favorites.

[Millie De Chirico]

Each week, Casey and I will have heated debates, give flawless recommendations and talk about what's going on in cinema. Dear Movies, I love you on a. Exactly right is available right now. Listen every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The end.

[Casey O'Brien]

My favor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hello and welcome to my favorite murder.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's George the minisode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yes. I forgot what we did. Hometown Minnie. That's Karen. That's Georgia.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, it's like. Should we run you through it again? We're gonna start at the beginning, we're gonna read, we'll come to the end.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is this our first video of the hometown in studio?

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, is it off zoom take to your camera?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wore something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is it. Could it be, I wonder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wore something special for the occasion.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh. Oh, Mimi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's Mimi's shirt.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's Mimi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's Mimi. And it says bad bitch at the bottom. Bad bitch Mimi.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wait, have you worn that one before?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I haven't. I've worn the dot. The cookie one. All right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Do you want to go first?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure. Hardcore classic Hometown. This is called. My dad was a detective in the Crimes Against Persons Unit. Classic Hometown with family connection. Three minute read.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, gang. I'm a day three listener, but an OG Murderino and I adore you all. Let's jump in. In my hometown of Fort Collins, Colorado, my dad was a detective in the Crimes Against Persons unit. Murders, kidnapping, assaults, you name it, he responded to it. I could write you a lot of emails. I recently realized I've been professionally interrogated my whole life. But he also let me read old case files in middle school. So there were perks too, onto the story. Right. Late at night on September 9, 1998, the police were called about a domestic dispute involving 23 year old Nicole Holm and her boyfriend. Her boyfriend was arrested for an outstanding traffic violation. Nicole didn't have a working phone and went knocking on doors at her apartment complex for a phone to contact help to bail her boyfriend out of jail. While doing so, Nicole encountered 25 year old Tibus Kennep. The two were seen together at a convenience store where Nicole may have gone for help. That evening Nicole was found brutally attacked, sexually assaulted, stabbed and murdered in her apartment. Like what an insane just series of events. While frantically cleaning the scene, Knip was pulled over by, you guessed it, my dad.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He had been called for backup. As Kennep was acting suspicious and sweating profusely, there was a gold chain hanging out of his pocket. The police ran Kenneth's ID and took a photo. But because Nicole's body had yet to be found, there was no crime to tie him to or known reason not to let him go.

[Casey O'Brien]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kennep fled immediately and the trail went cold. When his car was last found in New Mexico as a prime suspect, he eventually appeared on an episode of America's Most Wanted. Fast forward nine months. A lady who employed Kennep at a pizzeria in a tiny town in Livingston, Guatemala became suspicious of him, possibly because of the notable tattoo that spelled out fear on his knuckles. It was 1999. So though she struggled to find Internet access, when she did, she did verify Kinnup's identity on the FBI website and called the US Embassy in Guatemala. Like what a badass.

[Casey O'Brien]

Just getting it all done. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like that guy's sketchy. Let me fucking just take a couple steps and just verify.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. You know, and then run my business.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah. Although I can't find her name, I consider that woman a hero. According to my dad, Kenneth had hitchhiked there. No air travel or official transportation. That is approximately a 45 hour drive. And it says which in 2024 time is still 45 hours.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kenneth was extradited back to Colorado. My dad was the co lead investigator on the case at the time. With Kenneth's DNA at the crime scene, graphic police interrogations and the gold chain noted by the police during the traffic stop suspected to be Nicole's necklace, the self described sicko was convicted of first degree sexual assault and first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison without parole. He later died by suicide in prison. I appreciate you both more than you could know. I Am currently a master's student studying clinical mental health counseling. And we need more strong voices like yours and advocates for therapy and mental health care. Nicole Holm was also studying psychology at my university when she was killed. I can only imagine the good she would have done in the field. Stay sexy, trust your gut, and check the FBI most wanted list. A. Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

A. That was classic. Also, just like, how long did it say how long the trail went cold? Just for a little while.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wasn't like a yeah, thankfully.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good. I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

It happens so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, here's my first one. It's MFM listener story. They gave it its own kind of little bucket to put it in. This is a listener story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. What do you call it? It's a listener story.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's a listener story. The time my dad lived in a serial killer's house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Casey O'Brien]

Hi, all. I had written the story a while back, but I realized I didn't fact check properly and I wanted to give it another shot. Hope you enjoy it. If only like we were throwing things out because of fact checking. It's like, truly, you're. You're just sitting in the middle of a very tall pile.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's not it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Don't be upset. Okay. But I love the kind of like, that's a lot of self accountability where it's just like, I'll take care of this. Yeah, I like it. And look, it worked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it did.

[Casey O'Brien]

When my dad was in College in the 80s, he and a few of his friends rented an old house that was only $50 a month per person.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Casey O'Brien]

Which in today's month. Which is in today's month, is worth roughly $200 a month. I think they meant math, but that's so. I love that. Or maybe they didn't. Still a major steal if you ask me. Yes. Insane. Apparently every bedroom in this house had their own fireplace. And the gas used for the kitchen stove had to be turned on by crawling underneath the house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Casey O'Brien]

So microwaves only. I'm not sure how the mechanics of this process works, but this sounds like a hard pass. This house wasn't just any old house. This house was the childhood home of the notorious serial killer Pee Wee Gaskins. One of the worst. One of the. You can't even like, you start to read about it and he's like a torturer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Just truly dark.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dark horrific.

[Casey O'Brien]

When my dad told me about his time living there, he remembered the neighbors telling stories about seeing Gaskins on the roof hanging out by himself. My dad also remembers finding a large pile of shoes in the crawl space when turning on the stove. Shoes. Shoes in the crawl space.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Be like large amount of anything is bad. But shoes is like definitely on that list.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hidden shoes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why don't those people have their shoes anymore?

[Casey O'Brien]

Were they all different sizes? I bet they were.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's like that. Remember the video of the guy that was at the lake? Gas. We need an update on that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. I really hope they were just some old shoes left by him and his siblings. But my murderino brain thinks some of these shoes might have belonged to Gas. I think you're right. Most true crime podcasts don't cover this case because of how gruesome his killings were. But I still wanted to share this wild connection with you all. Thank you for everything you do. I love how you normalize mental health and therapy. Although my therapist might be worried about my true crime obsession sometimes. She's taken notes on some of the things that you ladies have opened about. Have opened up about. You've got me through the pandemic. Finding my life partner and finishing my master's in data science.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So smart.

[Casey O'Brien]

Jesus H. Come on. Stay sexy and maybe don't live in a serial killer's house. Regardless of how cheap it is in this economy. Nicole, she.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or data and science are two words that like I don't, wouldn't, don't cross my mind. And she's studying both of them, both.

[Casey O'Brien]

Together and they're going to help. That's like what the world is becoming is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The other red flag for me is that I don't think people should have personal fireplaces. I think there should all be a community fireplace in the living room.

[Casey O'Brien]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I don't trust anyone else with.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like a bedroom fireplace where they're burning their evidence. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, but they're just like gonna put it out properly.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what I mean?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or like gonna fall asleep and forget that there's. I just don't trust personal fireplaces.

[Casey O'Brien]

Unless you live in a hotel like Eloise, there's no reason to have your own. The whole point of a fireplace is everyone gathers around and stares together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Don't go individual with fire. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a community thing that we can all remember.

[Casey O'Brien]

Please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In case someone forgets accidentally uncovered my in laws family secret at my first Christmas with their family.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ooh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's get to it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I married into a pretty traditional and religious family our first year married. I decided to be creative and make my husband's grandmother a beautiful Family tree. I got photos of everyone and tracked down dates of birth and wedding dates to put together the family tree. There were a few dates I wasn't sure of, like the date of my husband's grandparents wedding on Christmas day. I was running around asking relatives to fill in the missing date for me. Everyone seemed back and forth on the grandparents wedding date. Was it 1969 or 1968? The confusing factor was that they were married in December. Everyone agreed it must have been December 1968 because my husband's father was born in July 1960 and babies aren't born at less than seven months. Big and beautiful with no complications, especially in the 60s. Except you know where this is going. Later that day we found an actual newspaper clipping of their wedding announcement stating that they were indeed married December 1969. And my father in law was born July 1970. Everyone looked at each other with glances saying oh my gosh. It seems very likely that his grandmother was pregnant on their wedding day. My husband and I still talk about how I unknowingly uncovered a family secret. I left like just so nosy without knowing it. First holiday, just fucking coming in, shredding that pit.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know what I mean? The new element you have to deal with in this family.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Just like clear the dance floor everyone.

[Casey O'Brien]

We've got something about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My husband and I still talk about how I had known the uncovered a family secret just three months after joining his family. Because the math is just a little too close if you ask us. If you're wondering what his grandmother thought about all of this, she played the I'm just as surprised and confused as you card, which is totally her right and pretty badass in its own way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Always do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, play the confused grandma your entire life.

[Casey O'Brien]

Why not just keep saying what over and over. You'll just drive people insane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's. Don't get too much botox here because you always want to be furrowing your brow.

[Casey O'Brien]

Truly, realistically furrowing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I loved her since I never knew my own grandparents very well. She was a young widow and one time a real life cult leader tried to date slash marry her in the 80s. But that's a story for another time. Please send it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Such a good cliffhanger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stay sexy and maybe toss out the newspaper evidence. Emily.

[Casey O'Brien]

Emily. That happened in my family too. I don't want to be too specific, but we did that one day where we were just like well wait a second and did the math and then we're just like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it Is it's always religious families too, that that happens in. Because, like, we don't give a shit, you know?

[Casey O'Brien]

And actually it happens so much that it's like, people should know if that's a discovery, it should not be. No one should be like, what a dirty secret. Because it's like, probably 70% of marriages are like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And don't bring it up. Especially like in the 60s, I feel like that was just pretty par for the course.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. It was just, you go and do the right thing. Don't bring it up. Don't make a family tree about it. Don't run around from new relative to new relatives. The subject line of this email is that time I was a nun. Karen, Georgia and the whole team. I was listening to Minisode 419 and you asked for nun stories. Okay. When it's just. And it just so happens I was a nun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's my favorite story to pull out at parties to surprise people or if the conversation is getting a little boring. Especially because most people wouldn't pin my outgoing, tattooed effort saying true crime loving self as the nun type.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So cool.

[Casey O'Brien]

I grew up very loosely Catholic. Shout out, Karen. I love all your Catholic references. Meaning my parents were raised Catholic, but didn't really practice, but sent me to Catholic schools. That's rough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Mixed in with that and some textbook childhood trauma, you know, alcoholic parents, divorce, severe parental mental illness. The kind that gets you lots of points on the ACE scale and many healing years in therapy. Hi, welcome. I ended up getting really involved in my charismatic new high school youth group. I could have done a lot of other things as a teenager to act out drugs, alcohol, boys. No, I chose high control religion.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, there's worse things.

[Casey O'Brien]

There is. I mean, but it's funny. Cause on the face you think, well, at least you're being this. At least you're safe or something. But I got very active in the Catholic faith and a young faith group in the area, and it was all very consuming and in some ways almost cult like. Okay, so back to the nun part. Usually when I drop that information, I get a ton of questions. Could you have sex? Why did you go? Did you change your name? After years in youth groups and religious settings, I truly believed there was no higher calling than to, quote, live my life for only Jesus. End quote. So I entered the convent at 21 years old.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, I'm 36 now, so this was pretty recently. I was only in my first year. And you typically don't cut your hair or change your name until the second or third year. So I just went by Sister Nicole. You also don't take vows until your second or third year, but you're learning about them and living by them already. So, no, I did not have sex while I was in the convent. After about nine months, I decided to leave, which is fairly common in the first couple of years as young women are figuring out if it's truly a good fit. It takes seven to 10 years total, depending on the order, to be a fully vowed religious sister in the Catholic Church. About 90% of my days were spent in silence, prayers and work around the convent. Meals were eaten in silence, sometimes with a reading. Unless it was a special celebration.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's my out. I can't eat in silence.

[Casey O'Brien]

No way. It's giving me adjita. Just describing Nicole's experience in the order I entered. It's a teaching order, so all the sisters teach in schools around the country. You keep a really rigid schedule of prayers, reading, and recreation, which is sometimes playing sports, like ultimate frisbee outside or what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so weird. Nuns playing ultimate Frisbee.

[Casey O'Brien]

They're like, you absolutely have to. You have to pray.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus loves ultimate Frisbee.

[Casey O'Brien]

And you can see right over there, he's playing or board games. Overall, there was a lot. See, now I'm back in for the board games. Overall, there was a lot of beauty in the life. As a person who likes alone time, I don't mind not talking to people all day. But I ultimately decided, for many obvious reasons, that the life wasn't for me, and years later decided high control religion wasn't for me either, for more obvious reasons. Thank you, ladies and the whole team for making a podcast that makes me and so many people feel understood and like they're talking to a friend. You've gotten me through bouts of postpartum cross country moves, raising four kids.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then in parentheses, it says, yes, it's a lot of kids. Religious deconstruction and so much more. You've done so much good in the world with wit, humor, and discussing hard topics. Thank you for being you and sharing it. Stay sexy and don't enter the convo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What does Nicole do now, I wonder? I mean, like, it's just like such a vast array of life experience. Yeah, it's fascinating.

[Casey O'Brien]

If Nicole has a job aside from mothering those four children, I would be wildly impressed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure. That's a lot of work.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's so many children. Maybe they're grown up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow. That is. I love that we asked for that and Then someone was like, here, I'll tell you all of my personal business.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you kindly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good job. My last one is short. It's called My Klepto Dad. A very, very short read. Okay, after the mini cell with the klepto grandma. Remember there was a grandma kept fucking putting shit in her purse. I am officially joining the finally I have something to write in about club. In the first 10 years of my life, I received various trinkets from my dad. Things from shops, airplanes, anywhere and everywhere. And he always told me that the ladies gave them to him.

[Casey O'Brien]

The ladies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was really fond of these nice ladies until I got older and realized that all this stuff was stolen. It broke my little honest heart, as, of course, I was always taught not to lie or steal anything. I can still vividly remember the image of my favorite butterfly keychain lying in the garbage after I threw it away upon display. Discovering the truth, that's tough. My parents still steal stuff. We have many, many airplane blankets, various sets of airplane spoons, and other random items from the ladies. Yeah, love you. Blah, blah, blah. Aggie from Hungary.

[Casey O'Brien]

Aggie, hi. From Hungary. Hi. All the way to Hungary. First of all, amazing and cool. Secondly, the last time I was on a plane, I was getting ready to steal. Maybe it was a spoon or it was something that was so distinct and cool. And I was like. As I was like, don't do it, do it, don't do it. The flight attendant came and took my tray away, where I was like, okay. She can tell. Like, I think people probably, I'm sure, get these all the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But you deserve it.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I earned it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You did.

[Casey O'Brien]

But that feeling of like, there's a real. Aggie just really wrote a little short story about, like, when your heart first breaks as a child. Cause you're like, oh, I thought you were.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys were superhuman.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you've been lying to me.

[Casey O'Brien]

You've been lying to me. Stealing. Okay, here's my last one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

For weddings, one bride, all drama. Hey, ladies. I've written in a few times with no luck, but when you asked for wedding family drama stories, I knew this was my moment. My oldest cousin, Jen. And then in parentheses it says, names changed. Has been married four times. And each wedding has had its own special crises and a lot of drama. I can already tell this is gonna be a long one, so I'll just get into it four times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Four times.

[Casey O'Brien]

Four times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No judgment, but that's a lot.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's very optimistic. Yeah, it's very like non cynical. Keeping it clean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Casey O'Brien]

Just keeping it drawing. Yeah, fine. Okay, fine. Goodbye. You there. Wedding one. At the first wedding, I was the drama. And then it has a little devil face emoji.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love the admittance of that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But I still maintain that it was not my fault. For context, I was 2. The wedding was in Jamaica. It was my first time on a plane, and my mom was still with my newborn sister. Making it also the first time I'd been away from her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hmm. There's no reason for a fucking two year old to travel for a wedding without her primary. No, Absolutely not.

[Casey O'Brien]

According to multiple sources, it says my dad, grandma, aunts and uncles. I was a nightmare the entire time and threw a full temper tantrum during the ceremony.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God.

[Casey O'Brien]

Over 20 years later, my relatives will still make fun of me for ruining the wedding, even though the marriage didn't even last long enough for the marriage license to make it back to the States. Immediate divorce.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, you gotta wonder.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then it says, I don't think that's on me. Wedding two. Clearly, I hadn't been too big of an issue at the first wedding because guess who got to be a junior bridesmaid at the second one. I can't confirm this, but I'm pretty sure that this wedding was the final straw in my aunt and uncle. Like a different aunt and uncle's divorce. Uncle John had a bit too much to drink and was dancing very close to several women, none of whom were his wife. They left early, divorced soon after, and Uncle John never came to another family gathering except for to pick up his kids.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ooh.

[Casey O'Brien]

They had been on the outs for a while, so no real surprise. But the timing and the kind of drama of it kind of overshadowed the new marriage, which also did not last long. Wedding 3. This wedding was actually very pleasant. It was on a river ferry that took us all on a nice cruise. With the ceremony, dinner and dancing all on board. We all thought Jen had finally had a drama free wedding until their divorce a few years later when we learned that it wasn't a wedding at all. They had never filed the paperwork to get legally married and had lied to everyone to get a bunch of and make it less of a thing. And then in parentheses, catholic family. Whoa. When they started having kids.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Got it. Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

Needless to say, my family was pissed, with some relatives even demanding their gifts back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Damn.

[Casey O'Brien]

You want the ice bucket back? Really? That Cuisinart?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, I want my fucking Cuisinart back.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, you already have one, but okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus wants me to have my fucking Cuisinart.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Jesus is pissed and I'm on behalf. On his behalf. Wedding four.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God.

[Casey O'Brien]

After the scam that was wedding number three, everyone was understandably very. I fucking love this woman. She's just like whatever she is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, yes, that happened. But this one, I promise, is real.

[Casey O'Brien]

Get up every morning and go try to get married again and just figure it out. After the scam that was wedding number three, everyone was understandably wary of wedding number four. The fact that Jen and hubby four decided to move forward with a wedding in the summer of 2020 despite the whole pandemic thing didn't help matters either. She and hubby4 are very conservative and they don't believe in vaccines, despite both working in the healthcare industry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi. What the.

[Casey O'Brien]

When Jen found out that my parents and some other relatives would not be attending, largely because of safety, but also because we all had long since fulfilled our familial wedding duties, she wrote us all an email explaining how none of her three divorces were her fault. And then in parentheses, it says not true, and that number four would be different parentheses. It wasn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God, I love family drama.

[Casey O'Brien]

She failed to change any of our minds and had a much smaller wedding than anticipated. You can't after the act on wedding three. You cannot expect people to go in on wedding four.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, like, even attending is like a favor. And then don't expect gifts. I've gotten you three gifts already.

[Casey O'Brien]

Go to a beach with two friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Casey O'Brien]

And a beautiful deacon. And get it done. Send everybody a picture. Okay. She failed to change any of our minds and had a much smaller wedding than anticipated. She is still mad about this and will bring it up passive aggressively whenever she can at family gatherings.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I love her.

[Casey O'Brien]

I love her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The audacity.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's really an unapologetic life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

God bless. Whatever, Jen. I can be passive aggressive too, and air my grievances on my favorite podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, why not?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Also, mystery Jen. It's not. Jen's real name is totally free. And welcome to write in say their side of the story. Yeah, Just argue for love. Thanks for listening to all that. Also, what am I doing in 2025? I'm getting married. You heard that, right? This screaming toddler turned junior bridesmaid turned non attendee is all grown up. My fiance is the kindest, most emotionally intelligent, wonderful man I know, and I can't wait to marry him. Aw, that's really nice, though. I have every expectation to be one and done with my own wedding. I'm. I'll still have plenty of drama for my next email. Thank you for all you do to advocate for victims and tell important stories in a fair and balanced way. Katie, she her. Wow, Katie, Katie, you nailed it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your aunt's probably fun to party with, though.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I think that's a big part of all of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you seen those videos from like the holidays where they're like, they go around the room and they say, hey, if you were bringing someone new to the family gathering, who would you warn them about? And everyone says one person. It's always the one person.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then Jen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep, it's Jen. That's the energy it gave me completely.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean and it is the thing of, you know, in families when there's like, there's the. Everybody goes into their roles and then there's the scapegoats and all the family psychology. So we'll leave it open door for Jen. And what if she's just in the most fucked family and she's actual that actually the true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The one who doesn't get believe in vaccinations? I'm gonna guess no.

[Casey O'Brien]

What's there to believe in?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It exists. And whether or not you believe in.

[Casey O'Brien]

Has been working for 100 years and is the way. And now that people have stopped doing it immediately, there are bad results from that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

AKA it doesn't need you believing in it. Just. Okay. Hey, send us your stories at my favorite murdermail.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hey, choir that we love to preach.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To, you know us. Hi, thanks for listening.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thanks for your family drama. Any kind of small time family drama. I'm telling you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tell us about the person that you would warn other people about if they came to your family party. And tell us why everything about like, what they've done.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All the things they've ruined.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, lightheartedly, but like fun times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fun.

[Casey O'Brien]

Casey, one of the producers here, who's also now co host on Dear Movies, I Love youe, told the story on the staff meeting about his uncle who used to carry a bird in his pocket. Remember that? I was like, this is the best story I've ever heard in my life. Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. We gotta hear those stories.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Casey O'Brien]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[Casey O'Brien]

Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This episode was mixed by Liana Squilacci.

[Casey O'Brien]

Email your hometowns to my favorite murdermail.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at my favorite murder.

[Casey O'Brien]

Goodbye.