MFM Presents…Trust Me

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode: MFM Presents…Trust Me
Release Date: August 8, 2025
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Network: Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction to "Trust Me" Podcast

In this special episode of My Favorite Murder (MFM), hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark announce the launch of their new spin-off podcast titled "Trust Me." This new series delves into the intricate world of cults, extreme belief manipulation, and the personal stories of those who have escaped such environments.

• [02:14] Lola Blanc: "Trust Me is a show about cults, extreme belief manipulation and the people who've lived through it."

Guest Introduction: Akina Cox

The inaugural episode welcomes Akina Cox, an artist and writer who shares her harrowing experiences growing up in the Unification Church, commonly known as the Moonies.

• [18:03] Host: "Welcome Akina Cox to Trust Me. Thanks for being here in the studio with us today."

Akina's Background in the Unification Church

Akina provides a detailed account of how her parents became involved with the Unification Church during the late 1960s and early 1970s—a period marked by significant societal upheaval and the quest for peace post-World War II.

• [18:38] Akina Cox: "I'm a second-generation member of the Unification Church, or I was before I left..."

Her father, a hippie avoiding the Vietnam draft, met a church recruiter who introduced him to the church's ideology of world peace, leading to his deep involvement.

Experiences with Deprogrammers and Control Mechanisms

Akina recounts the intense efforts by her grandparents to reclaim her mother from the church through deprogramming—a controversial practice involving the kidnapping and forced re-education of cult members.

• [31:20] Akina Cox: "According to her, my grandmother did hire deprogrammers to come and kidnap her."

Despite these attempts, her mother remained loyal to the church, demonstrating the powerful hold and control mechanisms employed by the group.

Mass Weddings and Arranged Marriages

A significant aspect of Akina's upbringing was participating in mass wedding ceremonies orchestrated by Reverend Moon. These ceremonies, often held in large venues like Madison Square Garden, involved thousands of arranged marriages to eliminate original sin and promote unity within the church.

• [28:11] Akina Cox: "Can you tell us how big their blessing was? Several thousand couples. I want to say 3,000 or 3,000 people."

Akina describes the emotional turmoil and lack of personal choice involved in these ceremonies, highlighting the psychological manipulation at play.

Theological Beliefs and Practices

The Unification Church's belief system, as explained by Akina, is a blend of Christian doctrines with unique interpretations introduced by Reverend Moon, who claimed to be the Messiah reincarnated to complete Jesus' unfinished mission.

• [34:14] Akina Cox: "Reverend Moon said he was the Messiah. He was Jesus back in a new form."

Daily practices included rigorous pledges every Sunday morning, emphasizing loyalty and unity against perceived external threats like evil spirits.

Transitioning Out of the Church and Critical Thinking

Akina's journey towards questioning and ultimately leaving the church began during her college years. A pivotal lecture on critical thinking exposed her to logical fallacies and argumentation techniques, enabling her to dissect and challenge the church's teachings.

• [46:44] Akina Cox: "I just threw them in the back of my closet. And I was like, I'm not gonna think about this for a little bit."

Her critical examination led to cognitive dissonance, gradually eroding her allegiance and prompting her departure from the cult.

Parallels with Current Political Climate

In the latter part of the episode, Akina draws striking parallels between the manipulative tactics of cults and the current political landscape, particularly focusing on the Trump administration's rhetoric and policies.

• [12:00] Host: "...these are all extremely culty things that are happening when you are demonizing a group of people and trying to eliminate anybody who is critiquing you."

Akina discusses how fear-mongering language and the targeting of specific demographics mirror the control strategies used by cult leaders to maintain power and suppress dissent.

• [52:28] Host: "I feel like the story is under told even though it's been like right under our noses the whole time..."

Personal Reflections and Resilience

Throughout the interview, Akina emphasizes the importance of resilience and post-traumatic growth. She reflects on her ability to forgive fellow former members while grappling with the emotional scars left by the church's oppressive environment.

• [68:05] Akina Cox: "I absolutely have forgiveness in my heart for any other blessed child."

Concluding Remarks by Hosts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts express their appreciation for Akina's vulnerability and insights, underscoring the significance of sharing such stories to foster understanding and prevent similar manipulations.

• [72:17] Co-Host Megan Elizabeth: "Listen to Trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and make sure to leave a rating or review. It really helps."

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Notable Quotes

• Akina Cox [18:38]: "I'm somebody who believed in a cult leader myself as a child... I have been extremely interested in how people's beliefs get preyed upon by manipulators."

• Co-Host Megan Elizabeth [09:26]: "She said she was being led by something that was not her critical mind and that she wants to serve her time and not be pardoned."

• Akina Cox [35:00]: "He was Jesus back in a new form. Because Jesus took a time out when he got crucified."

• Host Lola Blanc [44:10]: "This is like the group I grew up in. This is like the two by twos."

• Akina Cox [52:57]: "Reverend Moon was like starting businesses and putting his henchmen in charge... He was plowing this money back into the church and back into these businesses."

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Key Takeaways

1. Understanding Cult Dynamics: Akina's story provides a deep dive into the Unification Church's methods of recruitment, control, and manipulation, offering listeners a firsthand perspective on the psychological and emotional tactics employed by such groups.

2. Critical Thinking as a Tool for Liberation: The pivotal role of education and critical thinking in Akina's journey underscores the importance of these skills in identifying and resisting manipulative ideologies.

3. Parallels to Modern Politics: The episode draws compelling connections between cult-like manipulations and current political strategies, highlighting how fear and demonization can be powerful tools for control.

4. Resilience and Post-Traumatic Growth: Akina's ability to process her traumatic experiences and advocate for others emphasizes the human capacity for healing and growth even after severe manipulation and oppression.

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Conclusion

This episode of My Favorite Murder not only introduces listeners to the new "Trust Me" podcast but also provides a profound exploration of cult dynamics through Akina Cox's experiences. By intertwining personal narratives with broader societal implications, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark offer an engaging and informative session that resonates with anyone interested in understanding the depths of human manipulation and the pathways to reclaiming one's autonomy.

Transcript

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[Megan Elizabeth]

Big news everybody. Exactly Right's newest podcast, Trust Me is finally here.

[Lola Blanc]

Trust Me is a show about cults, extreme belief manipulation and the people who've lived through it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And it's hosted by two cult survivors, Lola Blanc and Megan Elizabeth.

[Lola Blanc]

Every week they talk to survivors, experts and sometimes even people still inside these groups to figure out how belie into control and what it takes to break free.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Today you're gonna hear the story of artist and writer Akina Cox, who grew up in the Unification Church, also known as the Moonies.

[Lola Blanc]

It is a fascinating, powerful story and it's the perfect example of why Trust Me is such an important show and why we're so excited to have him on the network.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So settle in and get ready to hear the first episode of Trust Me here on Exactly Right Now.

[Lola Blanc]

This is a two parter, so when you are done with this episode, you're about to hear Head over to Trust Me's feed to hear part two and then you can binge their back catalog of over 200 episodes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Listen to Trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and make sure to leave a rating or review. It really helps.

[Lola Blanc]

And now please enjoy Exactly Right's newest podcast, Trust Me.

[Akina Cox]

Goodbye. Trust Me.

[Host]

Do you trust me?

[Akina Cox]

Would I ever lead you astray? Trust Me, this is the truth, the only truth.

[Host]

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't. Welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults and extreme belief and manipulation from two future brides who've actually experienced it. I am Lola Blanc.

[Co-Host]

And I am Megan Elizabeth.

[Host]

Today our guest is Akina Cox, artist and writer who grew up in the Unification Church, also known as the Moonies, in part one. Today we'll talk to her about the background on the church and leader Reverend Moon, how her parents both joined by getting rides from members in the 70s and getting a subsequent invitation to dinner. And what it was like being a member of this group growing up.

[Co-Host]

She'll tell us about the mass wedding ceremony that she participated in, how her family moved to the border of north and South Korea, the lavish lifestyle the Reverend Moon was living while its members were often working long hours without pay, and how she began to question the church when she went to college.

[Host]

And next week in Part two, we will talk more about our current political landscape and the Salon article she wrote about the parallels she sees between her upbringing in a cult and and the Trump administration's ice crackdowns. Before we get to our guests, we do have a big announcement.

[Co-Host]

What is it, Lola?

[Host]

Well, Megan I think you already know this, but for our listeners, we have transitioned to a new home, and we are now at Exactly Right Media.

[Co-Host]

So exciting.

[Host]

This has been our dream network for so long. We are so excited to make this move and so happy to be back with y' all listening to us.

[Co-Host]

Lola, do you know how we got on Exactly Right Media?

[Host]

Tell me, Megan.

[Co-Host]

I put Exactly Right on my vision board.

[Host]

So here we are. And I think that's magical thinking, and.

[Co-Host]

I think you're wrong, and that's what we do a lot on this podcast. We think each other are wrong indeed.

[Host]

Which is maybe a good transition to explain to y' all who we are. I am Lola Blanc, resident skeptic, and I am somebody who believed in a cult leader myself as a child. I was originally a mainstream regular mor. And then a man swooped in and manipulated my mother. And then I believed that he was a prophet of God and it was a scam. It was a very harrowing experience for my mother. He did prey upon her LDS beliefs, and he has continued to do that with other people until we got out of it. And ever since that experience, which you can listen to the full story of on episode one of this podcast, my mom was our very first guest. But ever since then, I have been extremely interested in how people's beliefs get preyed upon by manipulators and how we are all influenced to believe crazy things and how it happens to people who are incredibly intelligent and wise and thoughtful and curious, because so many of our guests really are like that. So I decided that I wanted to create a podcast that centered the survivors and centered the human experience of it and didn't make it this, like, scary thing, but, like, really showed people what it's like to have that experience. And I was looking for somebody who could share that with me. And I, fortunately, was introduced to Megan by a mutual friend, and I got to hear a little bit about her story, which she can tell you about.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, I mean, the beginning of this podcast is really interesting. I was sitting with our mutual friend, who was very. We're very good friends with him, but we'd never met before. Like, for example, we're both going to his birthday tonight. How did we never meet each other?

[Host]

That's so weird.

[Co-Host]

Anyway, I. I was sitting with him, and he got a text, and he was like, oh, my God. My friend just asked if I know any therapists who grew up in a cult. And I was a therapist at the time who grew up in a cult, and I grew up in the two by twos. It's really exploding into the news right now because it's somehow been kept a secret for more than a hundred years. But some people call it the truth. The way the worker religion, Cunyites, whatever you might call it.

[Host]

Ooh, I've never heard that one.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, there's a lot to it. We actually have an interview with 2, 2 by twos, Carrie and Kyle Hanks that you can go listen to. So I'm fourth generation on both sides of my family. My parents met through it and very odd growing up experience because it's kind of like being Amish, but you have to live in the normal world and go to normal school, but you just have to kind of look weird. Like you have to be weird enough in the world that people are like, there's something special about you. Is it Jesus? So no television, long skirts, long hair, really scared to hell, lots of, lots of religious trauma. And this podcast has been such a gift because I just keep getting to deconstruct with every episode that we do.

[Host]

It's so amazing to be able to hear our guests stories and connect with them and be able to joke about our experiences because that's very important. It can't just be. We can't just live in the darkness. Although sometimes a little darkness is necessary.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, sometimes a lot of darkness, sometimes a little darkness. But I think we always come back to being very life affirming and hopeful and kind of the opposite of what cults teach us to be.

[Host]

Yeah, we're all about that. Post traumatic growth, baby resilience. Yeah. So for the next segment that we do on this show, the cultiest thing of the week, I ask Megan what the most cult like thing that she experienced that week is. So Megan, I would love to know what your cultiest thing of the week is.

[Co-Host]

Well, my cultiest thing was actually something that I read about in one of Akina's articles, which is this woman known as the MAGA granny. You've heard of her, of course, her name is Pamela Hemphill and she went and rioted on January 6th and Trump pardoned her and she said no to his pardon. She said that she was being led by something that was not her critical mind and that she wants to serve her time and not be pardoned. I mean, she did serve her time, but she still, you know, doesn't want the pardon.

[Host]

That is so interesting. And I want to have her on so badly.

[Co-Host]

I know, me too.

[Host]

I mean, yeah, I'd be so curious to know. I mean, and I did read A little bit about that when she first spoke out about that. I'd be so curious to know more about just, like, what was going on for her when that happened, how she thinks about everybody else who's gotten the party. You know, like, there's just so much there I want to know more about.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

One of the interesting things she said that makes it my cultiest thing of the week was that what got her out of her groupthink was that she started engaging with people on X that had different thoughts than her, and they were, like, just being kind of conversational and not accusatory. And she had, you know, interesting good faith dialogue.

[Host]

So that's actually also how Megan Phelps Roper, I believe, who was a member of the Westboro Baptist Church. That's also how she began to question and eventually leave that horrible family. Yeah.

[Co-Host]

I mean, yeah, she was his daughter, so a great story. She was also just engaging with people who were having good faith conversations with her.

[Host]

Yeah. Not to say that always happens.

[Co-Host]

No.

[Host]

But it is really interesting and gives me hope when it does happen.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And I think next week's episode, when we talk to her more, she kind of calls back to stuff like this. So throwing it out this week. What about you? What's your cultiest thing of the week?

[Host]

Well, this is another thing we will actually talk more about next week, but I feel I would be remiss in our first proper episode back if I didn't address our current political landscape.

[Co-Host]

Of course.

[Host]

So, okay. We all know that Trump blames immigrants for all things in the world. And, you know, generally anyone on the left and trans people, he uses fear mongering language about them. And now there have been these horrific ICE crackdowns in which people are getting deported en masse at higher rates than ever before. And I will say, like, Democrats were also engaging in too many ICE deportations. But this is now happening at a new level where people are being targeted simply for being brown. And people who have the, quote, wrong perspective or think differently from what Trump wants are also being targeted. These are all extremely culty things that are happening when you are demonizing a group of people and trying to eliminate anybody who is critiquing you. He has used language like wanting to deport the worst. Has used all this. Really? Yeah, like fear mongering language. And I just want to shout out some statistics here because 72% of the people that have been recently detained by ICE have no criminal convictions. Using their own scale that rates the threat of each detainee 84% of people detained by ICE were deemed to be level one, which is no threat, of course, if somebody is committing a violent crime, sure. But that's not what's happening here. And I will mention this next week as well, but the idea that immigrants are somehow more criminal than other people is false, and it's actually the opposite, because data consistently shows that undocumented immigrants commit less crimes than people who were born here. A National Institute of Justice study examining data from the Texas Department of Public Safety found that undocumented immigrants are arrested at less than half the rate of US Born citizens for violent crimes and a quarter the rate of US Born citizens for property crimes. Another report found that immigrants have consistently had lower incarceration than people that were born here. For the last 150 years, this has been true. And meanwhile, the daily average of people being processed into the system has doubled since the beginning of this year because of an arbitrary quota coming from Trump, who wants to enact the biggest mass deportations in history. And now, of course, with this big, stupid fucking bill, we've expanded ICE funding to unprecedentedly high levels. And it is very. It's very alarming. Um, I, like, I would just, would encourage folks, and I know that if anyone listening is a Trump supporter, I probably, probably already lost them. I already lost him.

[Akina Cox]

But.

[Host]

But I would say, like, what I've been trying to do more of is look at some of what he writes and examine the language and the purpose of that langu. He. He did this, like, crazy Memorial Day post that's just using, like, rapists, criminals, evil murderers, horrible. You know, like, look at the language and what the goal of that language is, and then what is the result that's actually happening? Because what's happening right now is just that, like, people who are working in farms and paying taxes are being sent away for no reason.

[Akina Cox]

Right.

[Host]

That is not the America that I want to live in.

[Co-Host]

Well, as she says in Clueless doesn't say RSVP on the Statue of Liberty.

[Host]

That is the correct way to end that comment, to end my rant. Yeah, I have no good conclusion. That's the truth. I have no good conclusion. It's very scary. I hope that we all can work together to combat this.

[Co-Host]

Well, I think Akina gives us a lot of good perspective on how she grew up and what we can do moving forward. So please listen to this week's episode. Enjoy it, and listen to next week's as well, because she gives some really great ideas.

[Host]

Yeah, we will talk more next week about how to sort of manage our emotional state and also feel like we're contributing something.

[Co-Host]

But for now, let's dig in.

[Host]

Let's talk to Akina about her childhood in the Unification Church.

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[Akina Cox]

Goodbye.

[Host]

Welcome Akina Cox to Trust Me. Thanks for being here in the studio with us today.

[Akina Cox]

Yes, thanks for having me.

[Host]

Okay, so we have you here with us today because you wrote an incredible article for Salon, right?

[Akina Cox]

Yes.

[Host]

About how you are seeing parallels between your childhood in a cult and our current administration and some of the behaviors with I. Let's just start out talking about how you grew up because we have not done an episode on the Unification Church, AKA the Moonies since Steve Hassan, which is years ago at this point. So tell us, how did your parents end up in the Unification Church?

[Akina Cox]

Okay, so I'm a second generation member of the Unification Church, or I was before I left, which means that my parents joined, which is the situation for like a lot of people my age who grew up in the church. A lot of our parents joined in the 70s or late 60s and then we were born, a lot of us in the 80s because Reverend Moon, who was the leader of the Unification Church, he did a lot of arranged mass weddings. Both my parents were hippies and they were born in the mid-50s. So my dad barely escaped getting drafted into Vietnam and he was just hitchhiking across the country and he met someone who was chatting with him and told him about world peace and, you know, all these great things they could do together. And then he went to get some free dinner with this guy and then. Yeah, then went to that second location.

[Host]

Yeah. What a like quintessential. What year was that? Do you know?

[Akina Cox]

It was, I'm guessing like 73.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, when people were hitchhiking A guy picks you up, hitchhiking, tells you about world peace and feeds you into a cult.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, and feeds you. That's exactly.

[Akina Cox]

And you eat the food they give you.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, do you know, like, what was going on for him at that time was that something he was really like, searching for was a message of peace?

[Akina Cox]

Honestly, I feel like his story is kind of emblematic of a larger story of like a bunch of kids who grew up right after World War II. Like, my grandparents, my granddads on both sides were in World War II and you know, they came home and didn't really want to talk about it. And there was pressure to be perfect. And then all of a sudden they're supposed to go off and fight in this Vietnam War, which sounded crazy. And I think there was. They felt like they couldn't trust the dominant culture. Like they, they don't want to trust this government that's sending them off to war to die. So then they're like more open for these other groups coming along, right? Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, it makes so much sense and it makes me think about how this is such. We're in such a cult era again right now because there's such that, like, resistance to the establishment is very prevalent right now, understandably because the establishment is doing terrible things on so many levels. But. Yeah, I mean, we'll get into that later. But like, just hearing you say that, I'm like, yeah, that's now.

[Akina Cox]

I know. I feel like when I first left the church and I would talk about my experiences with other people, there was this attitude of like, oh my gosh, that was so like an exotic time, you know, and you just kind of see it through the lens of a film camera. You know, like hippies in LA wearing flowy dresses and talking about world peace and, you know, eating vegan food or whatever. And it felt like such a time that was inaccessible, but it now feels like it's come back again where people.

[Co-Host]

It's making a comeback.

[Host]

Yeah, I do.

[Akina Cox]

I feel like a comeback. I know.

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[Akina Cox]

Goodbye.

[Megan Elizabeth]

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[Akina Cox]

Goodbye.

[Co-Host]

What about your mom? How did she get.

[Akina Cox]

So she joined in a similar way. Okay. So she, I don't think has been formally diagnosed with anything, but she sees spirits.

[Host]

She's using air quotes.

[Akina Cox]

Yes. So my theory is that she was off to college. I think she was starting to have some, like, mental health issues. She came home to Berkeley, California. She didn't really want to talk about it with her family, understandably. I'm sure she was, like, not sure how to explain it. Like,'70s mental health treatments were not that great. Yeah, right. So then she was, like, doing homework at the local library, met some guys who wanted to give her a ride home, and she took it.

[Host]

Oh, a lot of rides happening here.

[Akina Cox]

And they invited her to come by their house for dinner. And then. Yeah.

[Co-Host]

So parents are kind of the perfect couple. They love rides and dinner.

[Akina Cox]

Which is funny because they're like, not great cooks. Like, I would expect better food from them.

[Host]

Okay. Low key. I relate. I cannot cook and I do not cook. And if someone was like, I will give you food, I always say yes. So that must have been a common tactic to look for people who needed rides.

[Akina Cox]

It was a common tactic. I heard that they often, like, recruiters would look for people with wearing backpacks because it meant you were like, going somewhere or in school or in some period of transition. And I mean, they tried this like, all day every day. So I'm sure they talked to like a hundred people that day. Right. And my mom is the one that fell for it.

[Host]

Wow. And before you were born, presumably, was when the mass wedding.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. So they were supposed to. To back in the day, work for the church for many years before you have the option of getting married. It was something like three or seven years. One of those where you're supposed to essentially work for free and you're volunteering 24 7, living out of a van, either going from city to city, fundraising, selling little tchotchkes and trinkets and saying it's for your world peace or for your youth group or whatever. Or they were living out of these church centers and just recruiting people from the nearby city. And so they did that for several years. And then they got married in the famous Madison Square Garden blessing. Well, we call it blessing. It's a mass wedding ceremony. I think that was 1982.

[Co-Host]

I mean, it blows my mind how big it was.

[Akina Cox]

Can you tell us how big their blessing was? Several thousand couples. I want to say 3,000 or 3,000 people.

[Host]

That's so crazy. Can you just, like, for those not familiar with the Unification Church, also known as the Moonies, they apparently say now that saying the Moonies is a derogatory term.

[Akina Cox]

No, I've heard they sometimes go out or they used to go after people for saying that. Like it's a slur or something. But you can call it whatever you want to me.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[Host]

I mean, what was this group? Paint a Picture for listeners who don't know.

[Akina Cox]

Yes. So the Unification Church was started by Reverend Moon, Reverend Sun Myung Moon in, I want to say, the 1950s in Korea. So after World War II, there was the Korean War. I think it started around 1950. And he grew up in North Korea. He escaped by essentially walking down to the end of South Korea. Cause, you know, it's kind of like this very long peninsula.

[Co-Host]

So we have an exciting origin story from this event.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. Wow. And I wanna say there's like a million asterisks I'm laying in here because a lot of what he said was obviously not true.

[Host]

Right, right, right.

[Akina Cox]

Like, I heard this story that he, like, crossed the Han river, which. Or no, maybe it's the Imjin River. Anyway, he crossed this river with a man on his back that he carefully carried him down because this man wasn't able to walk. And there's a picture of it in a bunch of church centers. Turns out it's not the same guy. It's not Reverend Moon in that picture. It's like someone else, but everyone just.

[Host]

Relying on white people's racism.

[Akina Cox]

Well, it was like. It was a very blurry, like, black and white picture from the 1950s. So. Yeah. So, like, everything is wrong.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

But from his perspective.

[Akina Cox]

From his perspective, he went to South Korea, he started preaching. There were a bunch of random cults in that area. Because my theory is, again, when, like, there's crazy upheaval then there's more room for these cults to come about. And so there were a bunch of other ones. He seems to have gotten some ideas from some cults. He starts to get popular. He's getting in trouble with the law because he says he's anti communist. Maybe the problem was bigamy. So anyway. But he is getting bigger and bigger. He moves to the states in 1971 and starts, like, going on these big speaking tours and getting lots of people to come. And kids just start dropping out of high school joining. It kind of started a moral panic. And we have people like deprogrammers who started kidnapping people who are in the cult because their parents were just like, where did these guys go?

[Co-Host]

That was one of the most interesting things about your story to me, was that the deprogrammers for your parents became kind of a repeatable story of like, we escaped the deprogrammers. Can you say a little bit more about that?

[Akina Cox]

Okay. So I grew up with these stories of my mom trying to smooth things over with her family, being like, it's fine. I'm in this group. Don't worry about me. Okay, I'll meet up with you. According to her, my grandmother did hire deprogrammers to come and kidnap her. And she, like, acted like everything was fine. And then my mom ran away as soon as she could and made her way back to a church property. Yeah.

[Host]

The thing I'm just finding so fascinating with this story and also with everything these days is North Korea, obviously very cult like culture.

[Akina Cox]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

You escape that, you start a cult. Deprogrammers getting people out of the cult in that era were very much their own cultic dynamic, were, you know, like, in essence, like, very abusive a lot of the time. Why can't we just respond to a cult culture by not creating a new one? Why is it so hard for us?

[Co-Host]

It's a cult within a cult within a cult within a cult.

[Host]

It's just never ending. We react, you know? Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And it's just so interesting, the narratives that we make about what happened, because to your mother, this was like a heroic story.

[Host]

Like, I escaped the deprogrammers, which probably was partly valid.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. Yeah, totally. I later heard from another family member that it happened, like, according to them, like, much more relaxed. And, you know, they just wanted to talk to my mom, but my mom saw them and thought, I'm about to be kidnapped.

[Host]

Right.

[Akina Cox]

And so they were actually, like, on a boat. And my mom, like, jumped over the side, according to her, and just, like, swam away. What when no one was looking.

[Host]

Wow. But. Yeah, so. But that was before you.

[Akina Cox]

That was way before I was born, I think, when I came along. Well, first of all, when people got married in the church, if you're legally married to someone, then if they have, like, a psychotic break or if there's something wrong with them, then their spouse is in charge of them. Right. So once my mom got married, my grandparents couldn't really try and kidnap her anymore, because I think what they were doing with the duprogrammers was they were kidnapping them, bringing them to a favorable judge who would say, this person can't make decisions for themselves. And then they would have to get treatment.

[Co-Host]

I see.

[Akina Cox]

Or, you know, they would have to at least be under their parents, like, legal, like a British Spears.

[Co-Host]

In a good way or something.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. Yes. So you can't really do that if someone is married, because then it's just their partner that's.

[Co-Host]

And now the partner's also in the group.

[Akina Cox]

So they're. So between that and then me being born, I think my grandparents were like, okay, we just want to, like, let's see if we can, like, not be all be friends, but, you know, not try and kidnap her anymore so that we get to see our grandkids sometimes.

[Host]

Right. So what were some of the beliefs of the group?

[Akina Cox]

So it's kind of Christian and kind of weird.

[Host]

That describes, like, almost all of them.

[Akina Cox]

So many. Like, I feel like it's, like, very, like, Mormony adjacent, where you're like, oh, we have the Bible. Then we have this other book. Right. And this other book says this other guy is the new. Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Because he was prophety.

[Akina Cox]

He was like, well, Reverend Moon said he was the Messiah.

[Co-Host]

He was Jesus back in a new form. Because Jesus took a time out when he got crucified.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Yeah. So he was picking it back up from there.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. Jesus pleaded with him to take over when he was 15, and he graciously accepted.

[Co-Host]

That was nice.

[Akina Cox]

So sweet. So he said, everyone has to be married because that is the way to erase original sin. And then you can. If you go to a blessing and you have babies, then your kids are gonna be born without original sin. Oh, perfect.

[Co-Host]

Perfect way to create more members.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. So that was the gist of it. There was, like, a lot of other stuff. Like there's evil spirits everywhere, and we're in a battle between good and evil. And there was a sociologist who coined the term doomsday cult, and it was about the Unification Church. It's just. It's a very kind of a textbook cult. And a lot of textbooks were actually written about it in the 70s because I feel like it came into prominence, like, while sociology was kind of really having a moment. So also the term love bombing was invented by the church. It was like really into like being really nice to people and getting them to join the culture.

[Host]

So these marriages were arranged, right?

[Akina Cox]

They were all arranged in the church.

[Host]

What were other forms of control that the church had over people's lives?

[Akina Cox]

I'm like, what wasn't? It was like, I mean, in the beginning people all lived together in like communes kind of. When I was like a baby, they started. People started to move out because we were all supposed to like move away and start our own, like little outposts essentially. But like, we all woke up really early on every Sunday morning to recite a pledge at five in the morning where we, you know, like reiterated. It was almost like the pledge of allegiance, but it was longer and it was to the church or to Reverend.

[Host]

Moon, do you remember?

[Akina Cox]

Changed around a little bit. So like every five or ten years they would change the words. There was something about blood, sweat and tears. There was something about vanquishing your enemy.

[Host]

Oh yeah, yikes.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah, it was like, it was a little bit more hardcore when I was a kid. And then I feel like it tried to get a little softer when I was older, but, you know, wow, interesting.

[Host]

And like, were these instructions coming from Reverend Moon or was there local leadership?

[Akina Cox]

There was local leadership, but it was very much a top down situation where we weren't supposed to really differ in any way from each other.

[Co-Host]

What were your thoughts about it? How did you like. Yeah, how did you feel about it?

[Akina Cox]

I feel like when I was a kid, there was just so many opportunities to do something wrong that I was really caught up in the like, you know, you weren't supposed to date, you weren't supposed to. You're supposed to not really talk about the church to most outsiders.

[Co-Host]

This is like the group I grew up in. This is like the two by twos. We're not supposed, we're supposed to act so different that people go, what group are you in?

[Akina Cox]

Oh my God. Same.

[Co-Host]

Okay, so.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. Yes. And then there's this whole idea that there's like evil spirits everywhere and you have to appease them or you're. Or you're like fighting them or whatever you know, you have to do that would scare you.

[Co-Host]

Evil spirit. Yeah.

[Host]

Are you talking about my sleep paralysis?

[Akina Cox]

Well, it's demons.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Akina Cox]

And I feel like there's something similar with Mormons where Mormons, they baptize dead people. But we wouldn't marry dead people.

[Host]

You'd marry dead people?

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

I'm sorry, what do you mean?

[Akina Cox]

So ostensibly you would go and pay for them to get blessed. Like you would say, oh, my grandparents died before they could get married in the church. I will pay my. And then in the spirit world, they'll be married.

[Host]

And so they'll be saved.

[Akina Cox]

So they'll be saved. Cause they can go to heaven.

[Host]

Are dead people marrying other dead people?

[Akina Cox]

So mostly. But when I.

[Co-Host]

Why are we laughing?

[Akina Cox]

Because you know what's coming. When I was like eight, I went to a mass wedding. I was in the nosebleed section. Cause it's often happens in stadiums. Yeah. And I saw like, you know, rows of big girls wearing pretty dresses, which was exciting. And then at some point I hear the announcer saying like, so and so is getting married to Buddha. So and so is getting married to St. Francis. So and so's I don't know, just like listing off all these famous dead people that are getting married to women who were on this stage. Wow. And I was so far away. I didn't see that. These were like 80 year old women who were just like getting married to a dead person.

[Host]

Oh my God.

[Akina Cox]

I thought, I thought like, I was like, oh, is that an option for me? Am I going to like apply to.

[Co-Host]

Be Mary, Elvis or something?

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. And they'll be like, here's. I don't know, general patent or something, you know, like, I was like, are they gonna, like, I don't. How do you check a box to make sure you're not given a dead person? Because I don't want that.

[Co-Host]

That would have kept me up at night.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah, that was a little scary.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Aside from that, was it exciting? Like, what was that like, seeing those ceremonies?

[Akina Cox]

They were long, boring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

It wasn't like going to a pop concert.

[Akina Cox]

Okay. So apparently Whitney Houston was supposed to sing at one of the blessings in Washington D.C. in like the late 90s. And she backed out last minute. And I was there and I would have been so excited to see her.

[Host]

I'm so sorry.

[Akina Cox]

Freaking jerk. Yeah.

[Co-Host]

That might be one of the worst.

[Akina Cox]

Things that happened in the story.

[Co-Host]

Just kidding.

[Akina Cox]

No, it's. It's so traumatic.

[Co-Host]

I mean, how is he choosing who marries who?

[Akina Cox]

So for my parents, it was like everyone who is eligible and who's central figure or like their local pastor said it was okay. They would go to a big room and there'd be like women on One side, men on the other, and you just go down, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Kind of just like be like, you and you, or maybe you and, like, just take a second. And then when I came along, it was supposed to be. Well, he. He still arranged people in person sometimes, but he was, like, kind of retired from that. You could also just send in your picture and they would, like, pick out a picture of a dude and send it back to you.

[Host]

How many of these marriages were successful, do we know?

[Akina Cox]

Well, according to the church, they were very successful. So I did end up going to one when I was 21, I want to say. And of all my friends who were in one, most of them have gotten divorced, obviously.

[Host]

That makes sense.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. And there's like, a couple of us left, and then there's like, a couple of people who are, like, still really in the church and have a bunch of kids. Wow. Yeah.

[Host]

We went to one. Do you remember that?

[Akina Cox]

No. You went to a.

[Host]

You don't remember?

[Akina Cox]

No.

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Akina Cox]

Wait, you went to what?

[Host]

We went to a Unification Church Sunday service. Out of curiosity, because it was like when we first. First first started the podcast and we hadn't even aired yet.

[Akina Cox]

We weren't in Pasadena.

[Host]

Possibly. It was in, like. I thought it was in more of like, an outskirts town, maybe, but it might have been. Yeah, like, we were thinking maybe we would do an episode on it, but it was so boring that there just wasn't enough to talk about.

[Co-Host]

That's a tactic, don't you think, where it's just like. Because I feel like, again, the two by twos kind of do that. They make it so boring that you're, like, hypnotized and somehow they're not really saying anything, but you think they've said something smart.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah, well, that's what I talked about in the essay was I was noticing that Trump kind of also does that as well, called the shotgun argument, where they just tell you a lot of random points all at the same time, and the point is not to overwhelm you with their intellect, but just to kind of stun you and so you don't have a foothold of, like, how to argue back.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Host]

So fascinating.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And it works because you just disassociate so much and it just goes straight into your brain.

[Host]

That's so interesting to me, though, because I feel like the people who seem to want to stay in the cults the most are the ones who are having more heightened emotional experiences.

[Co-Host]

But mine was like the fear was going straight into my. The anxiety was. But like, the thoughts weren't going through my critical mind. I was just beamed with fear. But it didn't make sense what they were even saying, because it doesn't make sense.

[Host]

Mormon church used to be three hours long when I was growing up and it was so boring. But sometimes like a missionary would go up or you'd have an engaging bishop and he would like start crying and I don't know why I'm saying he. I feel like I only remember it being men for some reason.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Host]

But somebody would go up and bear their testimony and it'd be really moving. And those would be the talks that I'd be like, I believe in this church. It wouldn't be. The boring guys ever give me a testimony.

[Akina Cox]

When I was a kid, when it was like time for that at camp, I'd be like, yes, tell me your life story.

[Co-Host]

Were you into it? Were you like, I wanna give my testimony. I love this church.

[Akina Cox]

Well, so when I was a kid again, I feel like I was just mostly anxious all the time because there were so many ways to sin or do something wrong or, you know, and my parents were like, you know, had anger issues and were abusive in different ways. So I was more like just like survival mode and like, okay, yeah, let me try and do everything perfectly to, you know, fit in here. And when I was 16, I did have a moment where I was like, oh, I think there's something to this church.

[Co-Host]

Interesting.

[Akina Cox]

And I like got really into it for like, I feel like a year or two. That was also a time where. So we're skipping ahead a bit. But I had been raised on the Jersey Shore mostly. And then my parents. Cause my mom had a vision from God, decided to move us to Korea. This was in the year 2000. And she moved us to the border of north and South Korea, so, so close that we could like hear the North Korean speak loud system. Yeah, it was very close. And we were in the middle of nowhere. Like, absolutely in the middle of nowhere. And like you had to walk two miles through rice paddies to get to a bus station. And I think part of me was just like, almost had this moment where I was like, okay, I need to belong here, otherwise I'm gonna lose my mind.

[Host]

Right, that makes sense.

[Akina Cox]

So I got really into it. And then I went to college and I heard a lecture about critical thinking, about like, how to tell what kind of arguments people are using against you, like the strawman fallacy or whatever. It was just like a one hour lecture, but I remember reading it or, like, listening to the lecture and being like, oh, my gosh, this is great. I will understand more about the church through this because I'll be able to make these critical arguments in support of the church.

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Akina Cox]

And then I went back to my dorm room and I tried to read church material, and I was like, oh. Oh, shit. Oh, no.

[Co-Host]

What did that feel like?

[Akina Cox]

I just. I took my books, my church books, and I just threw them in the back of my closet. And I was like, I'm not gonna think about this for a little bit.

[Co-Host]

That sounds like a good. That sounds like a good plan, to be honest. Yeah, that's what I would do, too. That's for later.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. So then it took me a few more years, and then, like, finally there was a moment, like, in my mid-20s where I was like, oh, okay, now it's time to leave.

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Akina Cox]

Wow.

[Host]

What a great argument for having critical thinking classes in school.

[Akina Cox]

I know.

[Host]

I want to go back a little bit, though, because before you moved away, you were in New Jersey. Were you on, like, a compound?

[Akina Cox]

No. So when I was born, my parents lived in the New Yorker Hotel in mint Manhattan, which is a building owned by the church. And, like, a bunch of church families lived in it at the time. And then Reverend Moon was like, you all need to leave because you need to, like, start your own outposts. Because if we're all together, we can't get more people to join the church. So my parents moved an hour south to the Jersey shore, and I grew up mostly there, but then we would do church stuff on the weekends or in the summers. But then during the week, I sometimes was going to public school and just had to, like, pretend I was normal, which was impossible. Wow. Yeah, it was impossible. It was like.

[Host]

You relate so hard.

[Akina Cox]

I know.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akina Cox]

Well, at least you have a normal name. My name is Akina. And this was the 90s on the jersey shore. Do you know how many Laurens I went to school with?

[Host]

Yep.

[Akina Cox]

Yep. And I was like. And they were like, what's your name? Akina. Why are you wearing, like, weird, baggy, stained clothes, like, or, like, just, like, big clothes to hide your body because you're modest and.

[Host]

Oh, was that a thing?

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. Girls are the devil. And, you know, we. Sure, sure, yeah. Blah, blah, blah.

[Co-Host]

As we all know. Yes.

[Host]

So would that, like, if I were walking down the street in the 70s, would I be able to identify who the Moonies were?

[Akina Cox]

You probably wouldn't.

[Host]

Okay.

[Akina Cox]

But there were giveaways. There was, like, a lot of times they were selling Flowers on street corners of the city or. Yeah, that was the biggest thing was they were like selling things like little trinkets. But I feel like I can, I'm like, I can tell because oftentimes if someone was getting blessed, they would wear a blessing ring. And so it's like, there's like little tells. If you are a church member, I can also tell.

[Co-Host]

And no one else from your church.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And other members wouldn't be able to tell. But I'm like, oh, that.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And I'll ask and they'll usually be.

[Host]

I was convinced I had that power as well. For Mormons. I did identify successfully other Mormon children in random places, like multiple times.

[Co-Host]

I'm sure they loved that.

[Host]

No, it was like a bonding thing.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, okay.

[Co-Host]

But you were a child as well.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Co-Host]

Oh, I thought this was you.

[Host]

No, when I was a child, she's.

[Akina Cox]

At a playground, parents are calling the cuff.

[Host]

That would be like, hey, a fellow 12 year old who looks awkward here. And they often had CTR rings too. That was one of our giveaways. Choose the right. Every kid had a CTR ring.

[Co-Host]

Amazing. Well, I mean in the two by twos they say that we can tell each other because of the spirit. And it's not because of the bun or the, or the long dress. Long dress and the like very specific type of long dress. It's the spirit. So keep that in mind.

[Host]

Yeah. So you were allowed to go to college. So what was the policy on or the thinking on outsiders versus us.

[Akina Cox]

So outsiders were being controlled by Satan. Sure. Uh, oh, and. And we needed to like win them over, but they needed to be approached very carefully. And they were essentially our enemy. But they didn't know that. And so it was very confusing for a kid to navigate. Yeah, I was allowed to go to college, you're right. But it was frowned upon. And a lot of my friends went and did like a two year program, at least in between. Very. Again similar to Mormons. It's like Mormons with the Asian twist or something. Yes. But they were doing a two year program where they were going out not so much to proselytize, although that did happen, but again to fundraise and make a shitload of money for the church. Cause they were just like cute 18 year olds. They were just sending out to random street corners in random cities with like a bucket of wind chimes or flowers and being like, you know, selling them in cash for 12 hours, 16 hours a day. So a lot of people are pushed to do that. My Parents are a little bit strange in that they were very devout, but they did not want me going on that program. There were kids who were badly injured and in a couple of cases were killed on that program. How so? There were a few fatalities because they were sending out teams of these teens in vans and they were working sometimes for 24 hours. Like they would sometimes do, like, it was almost like a fasting thing where they would. Instead of fasting, they would be just fundraising for 24 hours. They were insanely sleep deprived, driving these large vans. So there were a couple, at least one or two car crashes. Then they had also sent out a teenager and she was murdered because she, like, knocked on the wrong door.

[Host]

Oh, my God.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. So I had at the time been trying to get my parents to let me go on this mission because, like, all my friends were going, and I. I was so tired of being like the only church kid at a school and not knowing anyone. And I had wanted to go. And then I was like, oh, they're never gonna let me go. But, yeah. So to my knowledge, that program is still going on today.

[Host]

Oh, really?

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Well, that leads me to a question I have about the Moonies and money. Like, where.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

What was happening?

[Akina Cox]

I feel like that's a really good question. And I feel like the story is under told even though it's been like right under our noses the whole time. So basically, ever since the 70s when Reverend Moon was here, he was like starting businesses and like putting his henchmen in charge. So there was like, nominally, not super related to the church, but definitely related to the church. And so he was like plowing this money back into the church and back into these businesses. And then with those profits, he was also donating them to politicians to think tanks.

[Host]

Really.

[Akina Cox]

He started a right wing newspaper decades ago called the Washington Times. So he's like kind of the story behind maga, in my opinion, is that, like, I don't think MAGA would exist without Reverend Moon, because he started the Washington Times. He gave a voice to these Republican conservative politicians. He gave them tons of money. They would do things. Like, I even noticed, we spoke about January 6th. I even noticed on January 6th, Matt Gaetz got up in front of Congress and said, oh, it was Antifa who is in charge of January 6, the Washington Times said. And he like had an article from them with him. And so I feel like they've done that a lot. Like, they would write an article and like either Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity would pick it up in the 90s or the 80s or. And then like, some congressman would use it as something they could point to and it feels like, to give them as evidence. Yeah. Validity.

[Co-Host]

It feels like family values were really.

[Akina Cox]

At the core of the message. It was very much anti communism. And then it became like, yeah, traditional family values and anti gay, anti feminist. Just a bunch of boring dudes screaming. Really? And just, like, causing a lot of trouble. Not only in America, but they've done this to other countries as well, where they just, like, really, I feel like, are responsible for a right wing lurch.

[Host]

Like, by buying up a media.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah, by buying it up, by starting it. Like Reagan said, the Washington Times was his favorite newspaper and he read it every day. Wow. Yeah.

[Host]

The amount of influence that you can have when you buy a fricking newspaper. Yeah, it's wild.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. And for a long time, like, they were there before Fox Media. They were there before Oan. Oan started in their offices. Fox News. Like, they have Washington Times contributors on there. They kind of, like, were the mama newspaper to, like, birth all these, like, shitty, conservative, like, media companies.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Akina Cox]

So they're all connected.

[Host]

Wow, that is fascinating.

[Akina Cox]

And more than that, he, like, gave money to Reagan. He was, like, very involved with the Bush family. Reverend. He gave them tons of money. Even though Reverend Moon died in 2012. The Unification Church, like, they paid Trump to speak at one of their things. Just like a few years ago, like, in 2020.

[Co-Host]

Bush spoke at one of them.

[Akina Cox]

Bush spoke a lot. Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Like, they were locked in.

[Akina Cox]

They were locked in with Bush.

[Co-Host]

Was he taking money for himself? Was Reverend Moon, like, living lavish?

[Akina Cox]

He's very much a Trump guy, like, in that he bought up a crapload of properties in the 70s, like a whole university in Connecticut, farms in Hawaii, a seminary in upstate New York, a skyscraper in midtown Manhattan, as one does. Yeah. He and his family had property everywhere.

[Host]

And was he enriching? Was he living a very lavish lifestyle himself?

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Host]

Golden toilet.

[Akina Cox]

I don't know about the toilet situation. I know he had, like, helicopters and, you know, his wife was always head to toe, like, designer gear.

[Co-Host]

But the members were not living lives.

[Akina Cox]

No, the members were working for nothing. Like, I heard from someone who did work at the Washington Times when it started that they were ostensibly paid, quote, air quote, they were paid for their time working, but they would be handing out the checks on a Friday and be like, hey, does anyone wanna, like, money is tithed this week. Yeah. Does anyone wanna tithe? And, like, so you'd have to, like, tithe in front of your Co workers. So you're all church members. So there are just like a lot of church members who are working for nothing or either volunteering their time or working for church businesses, you know, making.

[Host]

Hardly anything, which is so common. And I wonder, like, was there any chatter about that disparity and that being, was that a problem for anyone?

[Akina Cox]

I don't remember hearing about that. Cause I remember hearing like, well, Reverend Moon is like the biggest king of them all, so he should, like. And he's meeting with presidents, he's meeting with kings and queens. He needs to like, be at their level. Oh, of course.

[Co-Host]

That would make sense.

[Akina Cox]

You're like, where do I sign?

[Host]

Take all my money. I will live in poverty.

[Akina Cox]

Yes. Right.

[Host]

Wow. So interesting. Okay, so did your parents, did they remain in the church?

[Akina Cox]

They remained. But around when Reverend Moon died in 2012, like in like couple years leading up to that, his large family kind of exploded into factions. And my parents went with the youngest son, whose name is Hyunjin, or he calls himself Sean in America. Sean Moon.

[Co-Host]

So the reverend's youngest son your parents.

[Host]

Decided to follow, but the wife also was a leader, right? The reverend's wife. Reverend's wife, yeah.

[Akina Cox]

He was trying to pass her and give like the power to his sons at first. And she seems to have taken over the kind of main church branch.

[Host]

It was photos of her on the wall and they were talking about the mother when we went.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah, so people probably call her. They call her true mother. And so she's, I think, living in Las Vegas or South Korea or both. And she's taken over the main church branch. And my parents are part of a splinter cult now called Sanctuary Church or also Rod of Iron Ministries. And they got in the news a few years ago because like, do you guys know this? They. They got in the news a few years ago because they were all had a bunch of AR15s and had this big like marriage rededication ceremony. But bring your assault rifle. Whoa.

[Host]

Okay, this sounds familiar.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. If you go. Yeah. If you Google sanctuary church, I'm looking for pictures.

[Co-Host]

Assault rifle.

[Host]

Oh, my God.

[Akina Cox]

It's probably a picture of my dad. You're probably looking at a picture of.

[Host]

It's a bunch of old ladies.

[Akina Cox]

Okay. Maybe my mom.

[Co-Host]

This is wild.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Why did they choose him, do you think?

[Akina Cox]

Okay, so when my parents moved to South Korea with me when I was a teenager, my dad started an English speaking service in Seoul. There were like a few expat church members out there, but there wasn't really a place for them. And then Sean Moon moved to Seoul and he started his own. And then they combined. And so by the time this break happened, my parents and him had been working pretty closely for, I wanna say, like, almost 10 years. Like, more than five. And so it was very natural for them to go with him.

[Co-Host]

I see.

[Host]

Splinter groups are endlessly fascinating to me. There's so many. There's so many Mormon offshoot. Like.

[Akina Cox]

Yes. There's just.

[Host]

There are so many. How do you decide there's profits?

[Co-Host]

The Prophets 5 just started as we're speaking.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And.

[Akina Cox]

And it should be a BuzzFeed article that's like, which offshoot.

[Co-Host]

Which offshoot are you.

[Host]

Would you belong in?

[Co-Host]

Which kind of sourdough bread are you?

[Host]

Please pitch that.

[Akina Cox]

Okay.

[Co-Host]

I'm curious if when the reverend died, if there was any legend around him being immortal or if this was shocking or if it changed anything.

[Akina Cox]

So. Not a ton.

[Co-Host]

Okay.

[Akina Cox]

There was this idea that, like, he had really wanted north and South Korea to unite before he died. And there was, like, this big church event that happened around then that they were hopefully trying to work for. So it's like, no, it wasn't one of those cults where they were like, he's never gonna die. Okay.

[Co-Host]

Okay.

[Akina Cox]

But I think there were. I think if they weren't lying to themselves, they would have said they had hoped for something more to happen before he died. That makes sense.

[Host]

Yeah. So you have this crack when you go to college.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Host]

Was there something specific that led you to, like, revisit some of those doubts?

[Akina Cox]

So I tried to ignore it because even though I had been, like, friendly with outsiders, I didn't have anyone. I, like, really relied on anyone. Like, I was so used to just, like, faking my life around them. So it was like, oh, if I believe this, I lose my family and my community. And I did not want that. So I ignored it. I got married in the church.

[Host]

Was it a mass wedding?

[Akina Cox]

Yeah.

[Host]

Oh.

[Akina Cox]

But my husband and I were supposed to have an arranged marriage, but we already knew each other and we already liked each other. And so then when our parents were like, how about this person? We were like, like, okay. But we were, like, secretly making out. And then we went through the blessing, and everyone was like, you guys, like, this. This is a sign that the blessing really works.

[Co-Host]

Reference really worked a miracle.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. Well, because when we came along, sometimes your parents could also bless you. So we, like. So our parents, they, like, chose us, but I see. Yeah.

[Host]

How many couples were there?

[Akina Cox]

So they said 400 million. Because they were counting dead people. Oh, Cool. I don't know how many. I was looking this up the other day because I was like, how many were there? And it was like, no, there's 400. Were there even 400? I don't know. And so I. I think there was like a couple thousand, maybe a thousand.

[Co-Host]

That's wild. That's wild. This is a photo.

[Host]

Do you have a photo of it?

[Akina Cox]

I do have some photos. They're like blurry and you can be like, there's Akina, like in that row. Wow.

[Host]

What did it feel like?

[Akina Cox]

It felt kind of terrible. I've been thinking about it lately because now I'm 40 and you know, I got blessed when I was 21 and I thought I was an old maid. I thought it was a spinster. Oh, my God, you guys. There were girls who were getting blessed that I had babysat, who were like 16.

[Co-Host]

Wait, what girls were getting married at 16?

[Akina Cox]

Yeah, just a few of them.

[Host]

Oh, no.

[Akina Cox]

I know. It was one of those things where, like, I've been sitting with him thinking about it a lot lately and I'm like, that was like, way more traumatic than I remember, which is like, it's not all of our childhood.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Akina Cox]

Like, especially the cult, the cult life. But you're like, oh, we were all coerced into that. Like. Like, even though I loved the person I was getting married to, I was like getting married with all these people. A lot of them I didn't know. And he and I, I don't think we would have ever chosen to be married at that young age, even though we liked each other a lot. And then all the, all the girls. The night before, I was like, we were in a dormitory and I just remember girls running around and like crying like they didn't know their partner. They were like 20 or 19 and had just gotten off of a van where they were fundraising for a year and they were told like, this is the guy. And some of them, some of them were crying. Yeah. And then there were like 16 year olds or, you know, 19 year olds. I don't remember anyone, like, older than us that was like, like, you know, even in their mid-20s.

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. It was really brutal.

[Host]

Yeah. That's devastating. What if you get someone with bad breath also?

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. There's like so many jerks and like, just so many. And like, you're wearing like, there's so many ugly dresses too.

[Co-Host]

Could you pick out your dress?

[Akina Cox]

I actually, what we were able to. I've heard now you can't pick out your dress. You just have an Ugly dress that true mother picks out out for you.

[Host]

Terrible.

[Co-Host]

Oh, okay.

[Akina Cox]

My dress was kind of cute. It was, like, asymmetrical ruching.

[Co-Host]

Oh, my God.

[Akina Cox]

Okay. Okay.

[Co-Host]

Well, then I guess it's all.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I feel better.

[Co-Host]

Never mind.

[Akina Cox]

Wow.

[Co-Host]

I mean, do you still keep in contact with people?

[Akina Cox]

Some. I still keep in contact with some of my good friends. Like the girl who was sitting, like, to my right when we were getting blessed. We still talk. So when we were growing up, they called us blessed children because we were from the blessing, and we were told that we were all brothers and sisters, and so we had to really take care of each other. And so that kind of made it almost easier to leave because I remember some of my friends telling me, like, I have a secret boyfriend, or I, you know, I might be gay or I don't something. And I remember thinking, like, it was drilled into me that this is my brother or sister. Like, I am. That bond is gonna remain. And even when I thought I was a true believer, if people came and told me things, like, I made out with a guy, I don't know what to do. I would absolutely hold their secrets and, like, not tell anyone. And so I feel like, you know, I'm not friends with everyone from the church or, you know, like, I feel like I have a lot of good feelings towards everyone. Like, I know what a terrible childhood we all had, and I wish everyone the best, even if I'm not in contact with them. But I still. I feel like I still love everyone. Wow.

[Host]

It sounds somewhat unique in that, you know, so much of the time we hear about a culture within a cult of ratting on everyone, like, being required to rational.

[Akina Cox]

There was definitely, like. Yeah, there was definitely a lot of trauma that we all had to do. I think for me, even, like, if we were acting kind of shitty to each other when we were teens or, you know, like, some, like, some girl, like, ratted me out for, like, having not dress code at camp. Was still a little bit annoyed with her.

[Co-Host]

Still a little resentment there.

[Akina Cox]

But I'm like, we were all teens. Like, what else were we gonna do?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Akina Cox]

You know, like, I feel like I absolutely have forgiveness in my heart for any other blessed child. And I'm sure, sure I offended or hurt other people, and I would definitely be happy to ask for forgiveness. I feel like I have a harder time forgiving a lot of the first generation who raised us. I'm like, I know you were damaged and that's why you joined. But honestly, like, what the hell, guys?

[Host]

Yeah, right?

[Co-Host]

One of the other things that you said that really interested me was how demonized therapy was.

[Akina Cox]

Oh, yeah.

[Co-Host]

And how that's just a warning that you're probably in a high control group. Can you say a little bit more about that?

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. So it wasn't just therapy. It was like, kind of like all medical professionals were a little bit treated suspiciously, Especially therapists, because I think. Cause they were so scared of the church in turn. But I did go get regular checkups when I was a kid. I think a lot of that was also, like, I was going to public school and I needed to get back immunization. I did have health issues that kind of got ignored for a while. A lot of people didn't even go to regular doctors. It was like, don't even go if you have cancer. And there's actually. It feels like a very huge crossover between that and, like, the rfk.

[Co-Host]

I was just gonna say.

[Akina Cox]

Yeah. Because there's, like, people being like, you can pray your cancer away or just drink this special tea or whatever. You know, there's a lot of that, too.

[Host]

So it wasn't necessarily specifically, don't talk about your emotions with a person because it might expose us. It was more just like the medical.

[Akina Cox]

Oh, no, I think that was still there. It was just everything.

[Host]

I have so many more questions about this. I think this would be a good time to break and pick this back up in the next episode.

[Co-Host]

She's so cool.

[Host]

I know. I know. Also, I want her to be a voice actor.

[Co-Host]

I just want her to be my friend.

[Host]

Well, that too.

[Co-Host]

I asked her when you went to the bathroom. She seemed hesitant.

[Host]

Come out a little strong. Okay. Megan, would you join the Unification Church?

[Co-Host]

Okay, so if it's the 70s. Right. I think I might go on. I like flowers. Freedom.

[Host]

Okay.

[Co-Host]

There was a lot of, like, we're not working for the man. Like, we're gonna live on a commune and be in the sun and make our own garden. I'd like that.

[Host]

Make our own garden. Yeah.

[Co-Host]

I just feel like there's a garden there.

[Host]

You just decided they had. There was a garden involved somewhere.

[Co-Host]

I just would like it. I just think I would like it. I like. It sounds like it started with things that I would like. I wouldn't like him. Probably the reverend.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

But I can just see myself being swept away and maybe some of the excitement of selling trinkets on the street and getting hitchhikes and free meals and I. I would join it. I just know I would.

[Host]

Yeah, I could see that for you, for sure.

[Co-Host]

I know it's just.

[Host]

It's so. I'll never. I'll never stop being fascinated by this sort of like, hippie Christian cult combination. Yes.

[Co-Host]

Endlessly fascinating hippie.

[Host]

Just like my idea of what it meant to be a hippie growing up just seemed so, like the antithesis of being in like, a strict Christian church. But like, so much of that movement turned into these, like, Christian cults.

[Co-Host]

Yeah. And that's why you see them having so many weird different kinds of rules, because they were like, well, then we can do this actually. And we can do this actually.

[Host]

It's just like picking and choosing from.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, it's very interesting.

[Host]

She referenced in this interview, like, creating a buzzfeed quiz. I think it would be a fun buzzfeed quiz to pick which belief systems you want to pull from and create your own.

[Co-Host]

We actually have to do that.

[Host]

Does BuzzFeed still exist?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Oh, okay. Shout out.

[Co-Host]

Anyway, thank you so much for listening to this episode. Please rate us 5 stars. If you don't have 5 stars, don't rate us at all. Share it with your friends and as always, remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never ever trust me.

[Akina Cox]

Bye.

[Host]

This has been an exactly right production.

[Co-Host]

Hosted by me, Lola Blanc and me, Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Ji Ha Lee.

[Host]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

[Co-Host]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick Cotner.

[Host]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Co-Host]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgereth, Georgia Heartstark and Danielle Kramer.

[Host]

You can find us on Instagram usme podcast or on TikTok usme cult podcast.

[Co-Host]

Got your own story about cults? Extreme belief or manipulation? Shoot us an [e-mail] Listen to Trust.

[Host]

Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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