Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 47: Live at the Bell House

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 47: Live at the Bell House
Release Date: June 4, 2025
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Network: Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction and Overview

In this special "Rewind" episode, hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark revisit episode 47 of "My Favorite Murder," titled "Live at the Bell House." Originally released in December 2016, this episode marked the fifth anniversary of the podcast's inception. Karen and Georgia share behind-the-scenes anecdotes, updates, and personal reflections on the memorable live event held at the Bell House.

---

Live at the Bell House Recap

Setting the Stage

Karen and Georgia reminisce about booking their first live show at the Bell House, a pivotal moment that significantly impacted the podcast's trajectory.

• Karen Kilgariff: "We booked this gig ourselves. Thank you." ([03:38])
• Georgia Hardstark: "[...] we were finally like, we've been planning this, we've been thinking about it." ([03:35])

Behind-the-Scenes Anecdotes

The hosts share humorous and relatable stories from the day of the live show, including a mishap at Sephora and interactions with fans.

• Georgia Hardstark: "I have so much lipstick on right now. This is the closest I could get to the CRE crown Elizabeth lip color." ([05:00])
• Andrew: "My babe." ([04:58])

Challenges of Live Shows

They discuss the unpredictability of live audiences and the initial struggles with managing a large crowd without professional tour agents.

• Georgia Hardstark: "Here's where it gets really real dark, guys. [...] How did he know Gypsy?" ([24:11])
• Karen Kilgariff: "Basically, the cops get him and then when they go into the room, they find a girl, handcuffed, hysterical, and she's been tortured for a long time." ([41:10])

---

Torso Killer: Richard Cottingham

Case Overview

Karen delves into the chilling case of Richard Francis Cottingham, known as the Torso Killer, who operated primarily in the New York City metropolitan area during the 1980s.

• Karen Kilgariff: "So there's a man named Richard Francis Cottingham, and he did a little work in the 80s here in the New York City metropolitan area..." ([31:02])
• Andrew: "That's a Cleveland killer." ([35:11])

Crimes Committed

Cottingham was responsible for the rape, sodomy, murder, and mutilation of six sex workers across New York and New Jersey.

• Karen Kilgariff: "He raped, sodomized, killed, and mutilated six sex workers in New York and New Jersey." ([31:48])

Capture and Conviction

Cottingham was eventually apprehended due to surveillance footage and DNA evidence linking him to the crimes. His meticulous methods and the brutality of his actions left a lasting impact on law enforcement.

• Karen Kilgariff: "In May of 1981, he was convicted on 15 felony counts related to the murder of Valerie Street." ([41:49])
• Millie: "He was the total package." ([43:16])

Updates and Reflections

The episode provides updates on Cottingham's continued confessions of additional murders and his current status in prison.

• Georgia Hardstark: "Richard Cottingham, the torso killer, remains in prison and he continues to confess to his crimes." ([44:13])

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff: "That's Richard Coddington Cottingham, the torso killer." ([43:21])
• Andrew: "That's how sentencing is fucking done." ([42:28])

---

Dee Dee Blanchard and Gypsy Rose

Background and Abuse

Karen introduces the tragic story of Dee Dee Blanchard and her daughter Gypsy Rose, shedding light on the severe abuse Gypsy endured under Dee Dee's care, a classic case of Munchausen by Proxy.

• Millie: "Dede could make friends quickly and inspire deep devotion in people." ([70:37])
• Karen Kilgariff: "Gypsy had leukemia as a toddler." ([71:45])

Discovery and Investigation

On June 14, 2015, Dee Dee was found murdered, and Gypsy was missing. Initial assumptions led neighbors to believe Gypsy was also a victim, but later revelations uncovered the extent of Dee Dee's deception.

• Karen Kilgariff: "Police found Dede Blanchard face down on her bed, covered in stabs, and concluded that she had been dead for several days and Gypsy was missing." ([74:02])

Uncovering the Truth

Investigations revealed that Gypsy was healthy all along, contrary to Dee Dee's fabricated illnesses. This led to the unraveling of the abusive relationship and the eventual collaboration with Gypsy's boyfriend, Nicholas Godejohn, in Dee Dee's murder.

• Millie: "Gypsy hadn't used a wheelchair from the moment she left her house a few days earlier." ([75:33])

Legal Outcomes

Gypsy Rose pleaded guilty to second-degree murder, while Nicholas Godejohn awaited trial for his role in the stabbing.

• Karen Kilgariff: "Gypsy pled guilty to second-degree murder, as Nick is the one who did the stabbing." ([79:55])

Life After Incarceration

Updates on Gypsy Rose's life post-release highlight her efforts to rebuild and the societal reactions to her case.

• Georgia Hardstark: "Gypsy Rose served eight years in prison. She was released in December of 2023..." ([87:58])
• Jamie Lee: "She is living a much quieter Life." ([88:33])

Notable Quotes:

• Millie: "Gypsy is being freed from her mother's control." ([73:42])
• Karen Kilgariff: "Munchausen by Proxy is the cheaper clothing line by designer Proxy." ([77:56])

---

Additional Insights and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Karen and Georgia offer personal anecdotes, humorous interludes, and reflective insights on hosting live shows and handling intense true crime stories.

• Karen Kilgariff: "It's super true." ([61:09])
• Millie: "It's very, very true, true, true." ([60:43])

The hosts also discuss the evolution of their podcasting journey, the challenges of expanding their audience, and the emotional impact of covering such harrowing cases.

• Andrew: "That's why we were like, hey, we should do this live since it's going well." ([23:40])

---

Conclusion and Reflections

"Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 47: Live at the Bell House" serves as both a nostalgic look back at a formative live event and a deep dive into some of the most disturbing cases covered by "My Favorite Murder." Karen and Georgia blend humor with horror, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of their experiences and the lasting effects of these true crime stories.

Final Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff: "We're going to say now, stay sexy and don't get murdered." ([91:34])
• Georgia Hardstark: "We love you guys for listening to this episode of Rewind." ([91:37])

---

This episode exemplifies the hosts' ability to intertwine personal narratives with detailed criminal analyses, offering both entertainment and enlightenment to "My Favorite Murder" enthusiasts and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Andrew]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

That's Audible.com murder or text MURDER to 500. 500.

[Andrew]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Jamie Lee]

It's Wednesday, which can only mean one thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're recapping our old shows with all new commentary, updates and insights.

[Jamie Lee]

And today we're recapping episode 47, which we named at the time live at the Vel House.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you guess where we were and what was happening at this moment? I bet you can't guess.

[Jamie Lee]

This episode came out on December 15, 2016, of course, the fifth anniversary of Impractical Joker's premiere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know that we were forever changed. All right, so let's listen to the intro of episode 47, where we are.

[Andrew]

Live at the Bell House.

[Millie]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi Hi everybody.

[Andrew]

This is our conference about global warming.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not the problem you think it is.

[Andrew]

No, we're going to tell you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't worry about the ice sheet disappearing.

[Andrew]

No, no, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's going to be better.

[Andrew]

You're going to die so much sooner than that happens. Who cares?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The fastest dying, guys.

[Andrew]

Oh, my God. The Bell House. Finally. So cool. We're finally like. We've been.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've been planning this, we've been thinking.

[Millie]

About it.

[Andrew]

We'Ve been talking about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've been talking to each other and to Andrew here at the Bell House about it.

[Andrew]

And here we are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We booked this gig ourselves. Thank you.

[Andrew]

We didn't know. And so we did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. We were like, it doesn't matter. We should do probably a small, intimate venue.

[Andrew]

Yeah. We're really excited about this. We have a guest, a Murderino Storier.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think next time we should ask for like wireless Janet Jackson mics so we can just really roam the stage as we clearly want. Yeah. Do some black cat before we actually sit down.

[Andrew]

Talk about can I get some Murder in My Mind?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anything. I just wanna show everybody. I don't know if you know, but we were at Sephora earlier.

[Andrew]

Can you see that? Hence all the makeup on my face and on Karen's hand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have so much lipstick on right now. This is the closest I could get to the CRE crown Elizabeth lip color. Thank you very much. Thank you. Oh, my God. I'm not gonna tell you.

[Andrew]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I fucking hate that.

[Andrew]

My babe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's mine.

[Andrew]

The fucking audacity. No, I'm kidding. You're sweet. I love you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you B Onkers or what? That's my friend Millie saying be ankers. Hi, Millie. We actually were in Sephora, a very crowded Brooklyn Sephora. And I was squatted down putting every color of lip and eye thing I could on my face. I saw it and Georgia had immediately broken off from me and begun to get a makeover. And at one point, I crossed an aisle and there was just a woman doing this. And George is just standing there getting. Getting her face brushed.

[Andrew]

I actually kind of hated it because I was like, what color matches me? And I want you to hand it to me. I don't want you to use your fucking brushes that you've done every fucking person in the world for the past fucking 24 hours. Like maybe put some alcohol on it. And I'm like. I just was like, I'm breaking out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

As we speak.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You pulled it off. Well, I thought you were really enjoying yourself.

[Andrew]

I Just didn't want to hurt her feelings. But I wanted to be like, don't touch me with a Don't touch me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my gosh. Well, yeah, at Sephora, there's gonna be. There's gonna be a germ issue for sure. But also, you know what I don't like is, like, they ask if they can help you. And I do want a very specific kind of help. Yeah, but I don't want. They always try to get you to let them do your fit. It's like, no, I just wanna know the exact number of the taupe lip line. That's what I'm talking about.

[Andrew]

I wanted that too. She was like, well, first take your makeup off and then come over here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I was like, no, fuck, get out of here.

[Andrew]

I know, I know. I was like, just fuck and put, dude. Like, that's what I'm gonna do anyways.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you broke off to have that happen to you. I was off by myself, squatting like a fucking weirdo. And then I hear, you know, like, when you're in a public place, I don't know if you're like, me in a public place. If I hear someone go, like, blah, blah, blah, blah. I never think it's to me.

[Andrew]

And she turned and gave me the. She did one of these of like, don't fucking. You know, like, she didn't know I was talking about her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I just don't. I don't like shouting.

[Andrew]

And the girl goes, oh, she just gave us a dirty look. The girl who had been like, I'm a huge fan of your podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I was like, fuck you. I'm looking at eyeshadow right now. But I just thought it was a teen shouting in a public place, and I wanted to show them that that's not allowed. That's why we don't have kids. Instead, it was a girl who worked at Sephora. Even better, a girl who worked at Sephora who liked our podcast.

[Andrew]

And, like, how do you know who we are in person?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because of our lip colors.

[Millie]

She knows our sh. It.

[Andrew]

It's crap.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was super fun. After I stopped being super bitchy to.

[Andrew]

Her, I was just at dinner down the street, and these two sweet girls at a table, like, they weren't even obnoxious. They were like, hey, we're gonna go see your show in a minute. And I was like, thank you. And I there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that you? Hey. Now they're fucking obnoxious. Everyone's here.

[Millie]

Everyone's watching.

[Andrew]

It's cause I sugared them up because I bought them fucking chocolate cake. Like, what the is wrong with you? I was like, send them some cake. Do you know them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so Hollywood of you.

[Andrew]

Big timing it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll send you cake.

[Andrew]

I can afford eight dollar cake.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, eat it. Eat that cake.

[Andrew]

Cake.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Eat the cake.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Eat it.

[Andrew]

It's not a mic. That's a beer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Eat her cake. Eat the cake she sends to you guys. Anyhow. Anyhow, we gotta go.

[Andrew]

Live. Show corner. Oh, Karen, it's fine. It's fine. You have a lifesaver.

[Millie]

I have the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is just a mint in case I get worried later on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gotta have that shit with you. We should have asked for some kind of a break point up there.

[Andrew]

Like, why?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was thinking a private shelf sneeze area they couldn't see through so we could have all our secrets.

[Andrew]

What if we have a fucking frame photo of Steven and the cats up there? Is that weird?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Could you imagine how great this Christmas would be? Sorry.

[Andrew]

He actually is babysitting the cats. I feel like every time we do a live show when he's babysitting the cats, it's like how it should be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Him away and us here.

[Millie]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We had drinking and all the glory and him doing the work. Like Cinderella.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Millie]

Yes.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Damon. I'm gonna start calling him Steve from now on.

[Andrew]

Steve.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause he's so. He's such a. Like, if there's anywhere in the world he belongs, it's like Brooklyn. He's got the, like. He's got the like uneven hair and a tiny borderline Hitler mustache. Where I'm like. That could be problematic if you lived anywhere else.

[Andrew]

He's such a Steven. So calling him Steve would be such a fucking insult.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like, Steve fucking jean jacket much. Steve, pick me up in your dad's truck. Steve.

[Andrew]

Oh, what an angel. Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, any. It started snowing in New York. That's.

[Andrew]

Thanks, you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I had better hair earlier, but then the snow came.

[Andrew]

I have really cute coats that don't do anything.

[Millie]

Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When I met Georgia today.

[Andrew]

This is the first time we met.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We met and we really get along. I met her on the street corner and she is wearing the thick, thinnest. I think it's a coat that Jane Fonda wore in Klute. Like, it's just. It's just a very thin body shaping, taupe colored.

[Andrew]

It's called where in the World is Carmen Sandiego Coat. Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. With a smaller lapel. And I was like, are you dying in that Coat. What are you doing? No, she doesn't give a fuck, you guys.

[Andrew]

No, I do give a fuck. I just act like I don't. Oh, that's the secret to not giving a fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay. Do you just feel it deep down inside?

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if we were already getting the light? End it now, you guys.

[Andrew]

You guys end on a high note.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's kind of low. Bye. We just kind of updated you on our day.

[Andrew]

Bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then we're gonna leave.

[Andrew]

Oh. Oh. I went to a bar on Friday night called the Vince. Where's Vince? What's it called? He's not even fucking.

[Millie]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He left your own show.

[Andrew]

I fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You have to get divorced.

[Andrew]

That's a bar. What? Madeiros Maderas. Thank you. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is not her husband.

[Andrew]

So I was at this bar, I think it was like. It was like, in, like, Cobble Hill. And we ended up. It was like a kind of a divey bar called Maderas. And like, we ended up sitting, like, talking to locals, which is like, only a thing you do in Brooklyn. It was like the coolest people and, like, the fucking old timer, like, alcoholic dude who was so cool, was into fucking serial killers. And then this, like, couple comes in and you can tell that they've been there a lot, but they're, like, cool and young and he was a fucking criminal defense attorney.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Andrew]

Cute little baby with, like, dimples and his fucking girlfriend, who was, like, so cute, like, this cute little hipster was a fucking. She was a forensic. What is Auditor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A what?

[Andrew]

A forensic auditor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She fucking.

[Andrew]

She audits shit. And then she, like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She does taxes for dead people.

[Andrew]

What? No, she does taxes. And then she's like, you're going to jail, you fucking bad man. Like, so a company is like, this guy doing something wrong, and she comes in there and, like, does the books, and I'm like, badass. Like, chicks are good at math. Fuck you. We're not. But, like, fuck you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you saying to me?

[Andrew]

No, I mean, you know what I mean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck you.

[Andrew]

What are Roman numerals? I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one knows.

[Andrew]

So we just, like. It was just like, the best. And they were. They were so cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What is forensic about auditing, though?

[Andrew]

Well, forensic just means it's law. So it's. It's one. Like. I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wanted there to be, like, a bone in a file or something. It's like, what is this, part of a script?

[Millie]

Fine.

[Andrew]

One heart plus one lung. And six T equals eight things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're going to jail.

[Andrew]

No, it's just like. I mean, I felt bad for her. She just has to sit in a room and, you know, like. Like with her, like, calculator.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That seems fun. Don't feel bad for her.

[Andrew]

They were. But it was just like. It was such a. It was so great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You just got to have a real human experience.

[Andrew]

Yeah. With people who are obsessed with deathy things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God bless.

[Andrew]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that's us, right? Everybody.

[Andrew]

And you and you and you. We have murders here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then we have a third person to present a murder. So we should bring her out now.

[Millie]

Let's bring her out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She is our very good friend. You may have seen her on Girl Code. You may have seen her stand up all over the nation.

[Andrew]

You may have already pre ordered her book.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's right.

[Andrew]

Called wedelicious, An Unfiltered Guide to Being a Bride. I've done that. Have you guys been a bride? It's fucking terrifying and awful. What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was just thinking about when I was. And I failed miserably soon after. Yeah. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Hey, you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why's that sound?

[Andrew]

Here's Jamie Lee.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jamie Lee, everybody. Hey, friend.

[Andrew]

I love you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love you.

[Millie]

Love you too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, love you too, girl.

[Millie]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So phony. Let's sit down. This is getting weird.

[Millie]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi.

[Andrew]

Hi, guys. Am I not supposed to be in the middle?

[Millie]

Is this aggressive, this microphone? Okay, I'm gonna angle that on down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a little bit in our faces.

[Andrew]

Let me go ahead and. Okay.

[Millie]

Anyway, I just bopped mine and it didn't move. Cause that's not how mics work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Does this feel kind of like we're at south by Southwest on a panel. Giving a panel about how CDs don't exist anymore?

[Millie]

Guys, I brought you a gift.

[Andrew]

What?

[Millie]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Stop it.

[Millie]

This is for both of you.

[Andrew]

What is it?

[Millie]

You'll see.

[Andrew]

It's a kitten. What is a kitten?

[Millie]

That's actually not far off. So. Because Elvis, he can't travel. He's at home. Because cats don't travel. Well, I got you an Elvis Understood study to bring with you on the road.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's see it.

[Millie]

It's Patsy the podcast. Alpaca. Isn't she fluffy? Isn't she an alpaca? Patsy podcast. Do you know why she's named Patsy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, why?

[Andrew]

Because of Patsy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Patsy JonBenet Ramsey.

[Millie]

Fuck yeah. Or Mom Benet Ramsey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mom Bennet Ramsay.

[Millie]

So pack her with you and she'll bring you lots of luck. And also get fur all over your clothes.

[Andrew]

We'll pack her in our suitcases.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Over we go.

[Millie]

Oh, my God.

[Andrew]

Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just.

[Millie]

Like, in her fur, it's just like dashing in the lights.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like the snow outside. Dashing through the snow. I'd just like to tell a quick anecdote about when. So Jamie Lee and I sometimes take our dogs to the same dog park in Los Angeles. And we ran into each other there, and she was asking me about this date, and this was a couple months ago, and said because she was gonna be in New York at the same time, and she was like, what?

[Jamie Lee]

When is it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause I don't wanna go to that show. And I go, why don't you be the guest?

[Millie]

And she goes, oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like that. I wish I could explain. Sorry, that was really hard. But I wish I could explain her fucking One Direction reaction when I asked her to be the guest. It was the sweetest thing of all time.

[Millie]

But then you texted me and you.

[Andrew]

Were like, hey, is it cool if Jamie's the guest?

[Jamie Lee]

I know.

[Andrew]

Cause I already told her she's the guest. And I was like, of course. No, no, you were like, hey, how about Jamie Lee is the guest? I'm like, yes. Like, good. Cause I already told her.

[Jamie Lee]

Yeah, I already.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I already asked.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it was. Thank fucking God. What if I was like, no. And here you are.

[Millie]

Is this right?

[Andrew]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think super high.

[Millie]

Oh, this feels good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Super high. Shelter down. Like, should we go ahead?

[Andrew]

Should we?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's get underneath it.

[Millie]

That's very Tom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tom. Tom.

[Millie]

Yes.

[Andrew]

I don't know what. I don't know how we. And what do we even perfect.

[Millie]

Everyone list? Oh, yeah. I like it up there. Like, the reckoning at home is like, what is happening right now?

[Andrew]

Listeners play bashing. You're missing nothing.

[Millie]

There's a lot of mic work going on.

[Andrew]

Yep. So who goes? Who goes first in this situation?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's make the guest go first.

[Millie]

No, not fucking me. You go first. I don't know what I'm doing.

[Andrew]

Go first.

[Millie]

Really?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on.

[Andrew]

I told you. They're so nice. Like, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you.

[Andrew]

Nah, I won't.

[Millie]

Okay, guys, are you gonna be mad? Am I going to be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you mad right now?

[Millie]

I'm like, no. And then afterwards I'm like, karen, can.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I talk to you for a minute? Can I do in that really small bathroom back there?

[Andrew]

Should we do one of us and then Jamie and then the other?

[Millie]

I would love that.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Millie]

Yeah, clearly, I would love that. Just to get in the zone, you know? Gotta warm Up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you know this?

[Millie]

Rock, paper, scissors? Yeah.

[Andrew]

I don't know who goes first. Are you fucking super? I'll go first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no. I was just trying to think of who went first last time.

[Andrew]

Does anyone know who went first? I was like, thank you. Thank you. My God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Millie]

Okay, guys, can we get the notes.

[Andrew]

Last week's notes, please?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who's the secretary of this club? Could you read the minutes back, please? Because that's what I meant. You're not paying attention. This is something that we could have figured out while we were at Sephora.

[Andrew]

Why would we do that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, any other time that we've been.

[Millie]

Here for the past 20 hours.

[Andrew]

How charming was that, though, when we just, like Dana knock. It's like we don't even think about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The torso killer. Anyone?

[Andrew]

Move the alpaca.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Move the alpaca. I don't give a fuck what you can see. Shut your mouth.

[Millie]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really? Do you not know how to be in public?

[Andrew]

You don't get to talk.

[Jamie Lee]

No talking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now when I meet you afterwards, I'm gonna get in your fucking face.

[Millie]

There's no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Millie]

Patsy fell over. Patsy died.

[Andrew]

When Karen is angry, it's Patsy. Patsy falls over.

[Millie]

Wait.

[Andrew]

When Karen needs you to stop fucking talking.

[Millie]

Ask Patsy if she wants a cookie.

[Andrew]

It's gonna be so disappointing, and I'm.

[Millie]

Gonna get so sad. She'll say something. Just ask her. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Patsy, you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Millie]

She's a lot more eloquent than your cat. I'm sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Super dad. I'm not doing carbs right now, but I'll make an exception for you girls.

[Andrew]

Thanks, Patsy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Patsy's really high class.

[Millie]

She's a little emo, but we're working through it.

[Jamie Lee]

And we're back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi. I love Patsy. The alpaca, that's just.

[Jamie Lee]

I mean, it's always great to bring some props.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's classy to bring a gift to the hosts.

[Jamie Lee]

Always, Jamie Lee. Classy lady. We also. I think it's really funny. I'm still talking about the lipstick from the crown. I know it won't go away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't realize how much of a theme there was until we started doing these.

[Jamie Lee]

Or do I have some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder? I mean, what in the hell? And then I just pull out my makeup drawer and there's 1,000 lipsticks inside. Or it's like, do you do that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where?

[Andrew]

Like, I love this color.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you get home and you have three of them already.

[Jamie Lee]

I can't stop.

[Andrew]

Oh, my God.

[Jamie Lee]

Especially now that we're on video. It's like, oh, well, where is the lipstick that's gonna bring it all home for me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. Like, this is the one that's gonna be like. And like, should I try orange lipstick? Like, I know it's old fashioned, but like the old grandmas who had orange, like, straight up orange lipstick. I've been kind of like, oh, yeah, get into that.

[Jamie Lee]

They're rocking a coral.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Feel coral lipstick.

[Jamie Lee]

Very Florida in the 60s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, I'll try it.

[Jamie Lee]

Just for anybody that gets upset or worried. That heckler that I yelled at was totally fine. We laughed about it after we took P. It was all good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think that's like the beginning of the Karen. I hope Karen yells at me from the audience, period. Like, I think that made people want, like, I know they do. They want you to yell at them. That's like their dream in the audience.

[Jamie Lee]

Well, here's the thing. When you are at a live show and somebody else decides, this is. I'm in this too, the rest of the audience hates it, but they can't do anything about it. So at least it stand up long enough to know that if you just kind of take it in hand and are mean, then everyone else is like, great, we'll all do that then.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we support that.

[Jamie Lee]

We'll all not do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, right.

[Jamie Lee]

But over the years, we learn. It's like you have to do it in a nicer way. Yeah, it was just like, my thing was podcast audiences were so weird compared to what I was used to in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Standup because we didn't know what we were doing. Like, as an audience member is totally new.

[Jamie Lee]

Kind of totally new.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Unless you were like, you know, you went to Ira Glasses, like, beautiful. You know, an NPR thing that was fancy. And so there probably were no hecklers.

[Jamie Lee]

I would love it if there were hecklers at an npr. Ira Glass. He's interviewing someone about something really sensitive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, wait, don't tell me. And someone just keeps yelling the answers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, what?

[Millie]

Paula Poundstone, I saw you do stand up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, sorry. I'm used to my favorite Murder Live shows. I didn't know what this was.

[Jamie Lee]

I thought this was like a stream of consciousness shouting match that we all agreed to pay for. But no, I guess I'm wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I thought I was the main character.

[Jamie Lee]

But it turns out, no, another thing to remember, not just criticizing the audience for being new, but this was the show where I was the tour agent.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You booked this?

[Jamie Lee]

I booked. I called The Bell House was like, said, okay, we have a podcast. Can we come and do it there? They're like, sure. They're expecting 80 to 100 people to come. Then when we announce it, they start getting calls and they sell out in three minutes. And it was the beginning of us starting to understand what was actually happening in reality as opposed to. To what was happening in George's apartment. And the people at the Bellhouse were like, what did you do? What is this? Like, we are overrun. And we were just like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that was wild. I think after this, we finally let our tour agent book shows from then.

[Jamie Lee]

On, because it was like our touring agent came to us and was like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Heard about the Bellhouse?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Please, yeah, yeah, please let me.

[Jamie Lee]

I've actually got a plan. I was like, no, I'll be the touring agent.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen's got it. She knows someone at the Bell House. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, Karen's gonna go back to all.

[Jamie Lee]

The places where she bombed doing standup comedy and see if they remember her name, and then that will be our tour. Sounds great, Karen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't know any better. Like, you know, when have I booked a fucking show before? Who knows?

[Jamie Lee]

I mean, it was a fun idea. We were like, hey, we should do this live since. Since it's going well. That was the energy behind it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, let's get into the story, because this is a big one, and this is just crazy awful. And there are multiple updates, which I want about. So let's listen to Karen's story about the torso killer.

[Jamie Lee]

Look, we all fantasize about going off the grid, unplugging, maybe spending some time as a trad wife. But let's be honest, we all need.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Reliable wireless, and that's where Visible comes in.

[Jamie Lee]

Visible is the ultimate wireless hack. It's unlimited wireless that puts you in control. You get unlimited data and hotspots so you can stay connected on the go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Visible runs on Verizon's 5G network, so you get great coverage, fast speed, speeds, seamless connection.

[Jamie Lee]

We're talking about access to 4K streaming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Visible Plus Pro plan is premium wireless without the premium cost.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Plus, it's all digital.

[Jamie Lee]

You manage your plan in the app, and you can even switch your service from your phone. It only takes about 15 minutes. Ready for wireless that lets you live in the know. Make the switch at visible.com plans starting at $25 a month for their best features.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get the new Visible Plus Pro plan for $45 a month. Terms apply.

[Jamie Lee]

See visible.com for plan features and network management details.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A sleek professional website makes you look very put together even when you're wearing sweatpants and eating cereal out of a mug.

[Jamie Lee]

And that's where Squarespace comes in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer your services and get paid all in one place.

[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

You'll get paid on time with professional on brand invoices and online payments. Plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get discovered faster with Squarespace's built in SEO tools. With meta descriptions and auto generated sitemaps, you'll rank higher in search results globally.

[Jamie Lee]

Go to squarespace.com murder for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's squarespace.com murder code murder goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Spring is in the air. And that means open windows, outdoor plans, and more time away from home. All the things that burglars love.

[Jamie Lee]

Well, bad news, burglars. Now you can protect your home with SimpliSafe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With SimpliSafe, millions of Americans enjoy greater security and peace of mind every time they arm their system.

[Jamie Lee]

Traditional security systems only take action after somebody has already broken in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's too late.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But with active guard outdoor protection, Simplisafe's monitoring agents close closely, watch your property and stop crimes before they happen.

[Jamie Lee]

The cameras use advanced AI to distinguish between friendly faces, like family and neighbors, and potential threats, alerting agents to suspicious individuals before they get close to your home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I get that ping on my phone, on my app that tells me when there's someone like on my lawn, I'm such an old lady or like you know, walking up my driveway because I live up off the street and you shouldn't be there if you're not meant to be there. So like if I get the ping that someone's on my lawn and I'm like, I know something's up and like can check it before they even get to the door or break in in the window. It's great.

[Jamie Lee]

Visit simplisafe.com fave to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's simplisafe.com fav there's no safe, like Simplisafe.

[Jamie Lee]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. Can I please talk about the Torso Killer? He's your fucking killer, and I want to tell you about him. So there's a name, a man named Richard Francis Cotting, and he did a little work in the 80s here in the New York City metropolitan area that I don't know if anybody knows about. I actually had never heard of him. And someone else, like, in passing, a friend of mine was like, have you ever heard of the Torso Killer? And I got all up in their face like, that's Cleveland. That's not gonna help me. And then they're like, no, no, no. New York City had their own torso killer. And I was like, well, God bless America. And this took place primarily in 1980. And so I looked up on a website what was happening in 1980 that was different than 2016. And so I'll just list a couple things just to paint the picture, just to set it up for you. Georgia was born in 1980. Oh, girl, you look good.

[Andrew]

Oh, I'm not supposed to thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was a straight compliment.

[Andrew]

Thank you.

[Millie]

Erin is using Patsy as a music stand.

[Andrew]

I mean, Patsy was used for years and years by John Rams.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yes. Shit, girl, I don't know. That's right.

[Andrew]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anything can happen at the Bell House. Could you imagine if John. John Ramsey walked on stage? Right? That's our. That's our surprise guest is fucking John Ramsey. John Ramsey is here. Just his side of the story. Fucking flip the table.

[Andrew]

Fuck, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Torso killer.

[Andrew]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In 1980 in New York, but also everywhere else. Did you know there was no answering machines? Like they had invented them and corporations would use them and rich people had them, but they weren't actually mass marketed until 1984. Isn't that precious?

[Andrew]

It's so cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So if you. If you wanted to call somebody and they weren't home, the phone would just ring and ring and ring. All right. Also, there were payphones everywhere, and they weren't as dirty as they are now here in New York. This subway was insanely scary.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They used tokens and everybody had a knife. I believe Studio 54 was peaking. It was about to close, but it was like peaking just to the point where it was like, all the people who still thought cocaine was good for you were having a great time. And then like New Year's Eve. And it was like 1-1-81. And they were just like, everybody's gonna die. Yeah, you could smoke anywhere. You could smoke inside of an operating room. It was the best. There were a shit ton of mimes. Oh, no.

[Andrew]

All right, we're good. But mime was just so pissed off that he fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That mime threw down his drink and fucking stormed out, but silently.

[Millie]

He didn't yell.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was just like, drink.

[Andrew]

How dare you talk about the quantity of mimes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now there's just me. And of course, there was graffiti everywhere, and there's litter everywhere. And also there was. Was a ton of murder. Just a shit ton. Yes. Congratulations. So there was a man named Richard Francis Cottingham, and he was 31 years old at this time. He was a computer operator and a valued employee of the Blue Cross Blue Shield in New York.

[Andrew]

It's not a plug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're getting paid a shit ton of money by Blue Cross to not talk.

[Andrew]

About that Blue Shield.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was married with three children, and he also raped, sodomized, killed, and mutilated six sex workers in New York and New Jersey. Congratulations.

[Millie]

What a fun guy.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Millie]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

That was great storytelling.

[Millie]

Sassy. Good time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I read this article by a guy named Peter Vronsky, and it seemed like he was a writer, but when he tells it, I mean, like, it's a great article. So obviously he's a talented writer. But he was talking about at the time, he used to run film from Montreal, get it developed in New York City, and then take it back. And you can't just, like, send. They don't ever ship, like, movie film like that. You have to have a guy do it so that nothing happens to the film. So he would come down with the film, and he would get a stipend to get a hotel room for the night and then go back. But of course, he was like a young punk, so he didn't want to spend his money on a hotel room. So he would save the money and, like, eat. He would go to art openings and eat cheese and drink wine and then get a hotel room in a really, really seedy hotel. And so this one time he did it, the film took longer than they expected, so he ended up getting kind of stuck in Hell's Kitchen.

[Andrew]

And it was back then, no?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, Right. No, thanks. It was a Hotel on 10th Avenue and in Hell's Kitchen. And he was standing at the elevator one day, and it was taking forever, and he was getting kind of irritated. When it finally opened, there was just, like, this super bland guy who came out of the elevator holding a bag and the. What why then?

[Andrew]

Cause something's gonna happen. I can tell something's gonna happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Got it. Got it. He comes out of the elevator, and his bag touches Peter Vronsky on the leg. But then the guy moves on. He said he looked a little bit sweaty, like he'd just been doing something, but other than that, he was kind of vague. And then he left. So Peter Vronsky goes up to the floor where his hotel room is going to be to check out just how horrible his stay is going to be, because he knows it's gonna be bad. And when he gets up there, there are little pieces of burned material in the air, and he can smell smoke. It smells like someone burnt hair or something. So. Right.

[Jamie Lee]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So as he's walking down the hallway to get to his room, he now starts to see smoke in the hallway. And the smell is starting to get really bad. And you start to realize it's the smell of death. This is not just a normal fire. There's a dead body somewhere. And then right then the fire alarms go off. And.

[Jamie Lee]

What happened?

[Andrew]

I just looked at the camera.

[Millie]

I just feel like I just got chills. I'm just very invested. Keep going.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He goes back downstairs, and a room was on fire. And when the firemen went in, they found two bodies, one on each of the single beds. And when one of the firemen picked the body up and pulled it out into the hallway.

[Andrew]

Don't do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To do CPR on it. No head, no hands. What did you think was gonna happen?

[Andrew]

Oh, my God.

[Millie]

Oh, my God. Oh, no, wait.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry.

[Millie]

Did you say no head, no hands? Is that what you said? Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No head, no hand, no fucking dental records.

[Andrew]

No fucking fingerprints.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Andrew]

Ooh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he. A couple years later, when Richard Cottingham gets caught and his picture is on the news, Peter Vronsky sees his picture and goes, that's the guy that passed me when he came out of the elevator with a bag with the bag with heads in it and hands. Anyway, Merry Christmas.

[Millie]

Was it a nice bag? Was it too me?

[Andrew]

Was it. What's the large brown bag? What's the large brown bag thing from Bloomingdale's? Bloomingdales.

[Millie]

Oh, yeah. Big brown bag.

[Andrew]

Big brown bag.

[Millie]

Was it Le Sportsac?

[Andrew]

Was it Goodwill?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guys, I'm about to talk about the dead bodies.

[Millie]

Okay? Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those missing parts were never found. But their clothes. There was two sex workers whose clothes were found neatly folded and put into the bathtub, along with their fancy boots. And there was. There was very little blood on the beds, so they don't. And there was very little blood in the room, so they don't understand they don't understand the method at that point of what happened, where it happened, because it didn't seem possible that he could have gotten all of that taken care of in the room. Also how did he kill one person? And the other person doesn't make enough noise that somebody knows what's going on. Again, they're in Hell's Kitchen. So through X rays they identify Dita Godzari, who is a 23 year old sex worker from New Jersey who's the mother of a four month old baby. And the other victim was in her late teens and she has never been identified to this day.

[Andrew]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what the fuck was that?

[Andrew]

Look.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So six months later, six months later, at the Seville Hotel on 29th street near Madison, he kills a 25 year old named Gene Raynor. And it was the same exact thing where they go in, they find the dead body and this time it's gonna be bad. He cut off her breasts and put them on the headboard before he lit the room on fire. So now we're gonna cut to the Hasbrouck Heights Quality Inn. You guys have been there.

[Millie]

The irony of Quality Inn anytime the word quality is in the title. It's stark opposite.

[Andrew]

Good enough in.

[Millie]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It'S called Bed bugs. Yeah. So the maid is vacuuming as they are wont to do. And when she goes to vacuum under the bed, it hits something. No, no. And when she lifts up the mattress, it is the disfigured corpse of 19 year old Valerie street who is also a sex worker. Yeah. So essentially the our boy, Richard Coddington, what he would do is pick up sex worker and he would oftentimes he would give them a date rape drug. And they would wake up in the hotel with the tape on their mouth and handcuffed with their hands behind their back. And then basically he would torture them for hours at a time. And they were at these horrible hotels where people would be screaming and no one was doing anything. That's the craziest thing, is screaming. Well, I mean he, until he put the tape over their mouths. But he must have like the planning, the planning of it must have been that they drugged them long enough and then covered it.

[Andrew]

But you mind your business in those fucking hotels, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's exactly right. You don't want to point fingers when the three are pointing back at you.

[Andrew]

Do you remember the movie Big when Tom Hanks becomes Big and he goes and stays in the hotel for the first time and it's like a set and he gets like super scared and.

[Millie]

Sad it was like Times Square.

[Andrew]

Oh, yes, think it's totally Times Square.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're 12 and crying and you're 12, but you're also a man.

[Andrew]

Well, you're a man boy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so his next victim was not a prostitute. Sex worker. Sorry, it keeps saying prostitute in this article. It was a 26 year old radiologist named Marianne Carr. And they think that he knew her in real life in his weird other life in New Jersey. And she had basically died the same way and she was found like up against a chain link fence. So it was all kind of the same thing. But it turns out she was just a nurse and a regular person in her town.

[Andrew]

How would he have found her and known her if he didn't already know her?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, right, yes.

[Andrew]

Shut up. He wouldn't have is what I'm saying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then basically, the way he gets caught. Sorry, I should have left Sephora earlier and organized this part Better if I know. Oh, it's on this. The way he gets caught is.

[Millie]

Wait for it. He said wait for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He takes a girl back to the same Quality Inn in Hausburg Heights where the body was found under the bed. But this time there were reports of a woman screaming. Finally someone was paying attention.

[Andrew]

Get it together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they. When the cops come in, there's a man trying to calmly walk out, as if he doesn't. Yeah, look, I'm just here at the Quality Inn, chilling, just on vacay.

[Millie]

The Quality Inn.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just like to come over here and just think, just get my thoughts together.

[Andrew]

At the qi, they have free Wi Fi. Wi fi's not a thing yet. What are you talking about? It's not a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically the cops get him and then when they go into the room, they find a girl, handcuffed, hysterical, and she's been tortured for a long time, but there's finally a survivor that can tell everybody. This fucking motherfucker that you think is some normal guy that works at Blue Shield Blue Cross is actually this insane serial killer. So when they search Cottingham's home, they find a trophy room containing personal effects from several of the murdered sex workers. And.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He had actually been arrested twice in the early 70s. Nobody knew about that. That would never come up. And so, yeah, he had personal things that connected him. There was no way it couldn't have been him. We'll cut to the chase. In May of 1981, he was convicted on 15 felony counts related to the murder of Valerie Street. And he drew a sentence of 173 to 197 years in prison. And then a year later, he was convicted on second degree murder charges for marrying Carr. And that added another 20 years to his life. And.

[Andrew]

That is how sentencing is fucking done.

[Millie]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, I was just reading the last paragraph. Yep, it sure is. Oh, it totally. Oh, there was just this list of. This is what he was indicted on. This is what the person read in court. Kidnapping, attempted murder, aggravated assault, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated sexual assault while armed, Aggravated sexual assault while armed. Oh, the first one was rape. The second was sodomy. Aggravated a sexual assault while armed. That was fellatio. Possession of a weapon, possession of controlled dangerous substances, secobarbital and amobarbital or tuinol, and possession of controlled dangerous substance, diazepam or val.

[Millie]

In other words, he was the total package.

[Andrew]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Richard Coddington Cottingham, the torso killer.

[Andrew]

Yay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we're back. Karen, we are back. Wanna give us some updates?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Such a horrible.

[Jamie Lee]

I mean, obviously, it's just redundant. This is a true crime podcast. When you describe one story as being horrible and viol. Violent, then you just have another story that's horrible. Unless you're taking a left turn on our podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How many times have we said this is one of the worst? Like, how many one of the worst can there be?

[Andrew]

A lot.

[Jamie Lee]

Every time. It's always like, these stories have extreme violence. It's like, yeah, it's a true crime podcast, but this serial killer in particular, it is so cold and calculated and repetitive and insanely violent. It's just like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, and the victims are so young and just vulnerable and. Yeah.

[Jamie Lee]

So Richard Cottingham, the torso killer, remains in prison and he continues to confess to his crimes. So in 2022, he confessed to an additional five murders. Those victims were Diane Cusick, 23, Mary Beth Hines, 21. Laverne Moy, 23, Sheila Hyman, 33, Emerita Rosado Nieves, who was 18. And those are just more horrible murders. So he's been found guilty of 17 murders, but he claims to have killed at least 100 women. It's just. He's an animal. It's insanity.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's one of those ones where, like, some of them, those killers were brag and like, inflate their numbers. But if he's continuing to confess and has like five that he can be confirmed to, it's kind of seems believable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. You know, complete.

[Jamie Lee]

I mean, there's no reason not to believe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Jamie Lee]

It's not the oddest tool situation where they're just doing it to get out of jail.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Jamie Lee]

Okay, now we're going to get into Georgia' About Imet Saint Guillen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look, we.

[Jamie Lee]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Andrew]

Goodbye.

[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Jamie Lee]

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[Andrew]

Jamie. Do you want to go? I would feel weird going last. Do you want to go last?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Andrew]

Okay. Is that okay? Because I don't want to, like. I don't want to, like, wrap it up, like. Cause and then Georgia goes. So let's have Jamie go last.

[Millie]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Is that cool?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do it.

[Millie]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Andrew]

Okay. All right. And so. Okay. I really. I really. This murder's really fucked up, but I got really scared that someone in here knows the victim. So I apologize. I just apologize constantly is basically what I do. Okay, so Annette Saint Guillanne. Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? No? Okay, good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like they're gonna say.

[Andrew]

I mean, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah, that's my aunt.

[Andrew]

Okay, so Emette was born in Boston, and in 2003, she enrolled in the John Jay Criminal College of Criminal justice, which is a SUNY college in Manhattan. They couldn't come up with anything more than John Jay Criminal. Criminal Justice College. I don't know who he is.

[Millie]

John J. Criminal Justice College.

[Karen Kilgariff]

His name is my nobody's name.

[Andrew]

Let's name a college after that. So she was gonna pursue. Basically, she's one of us. She was gonna pursue a master's degree in criminal justice. So, like, immediately, we wanna have A drink with her and fucking hang out with her, right? She was one of the top 5% of her class. And she was supposed to graduate in May 2006. And so in February 2006, she goes to celebrate her birthday with her friend Claire. They go out, they're at a nightclub.

[Millie]

It's always a friend Claire.

[Andrew]

Yeah, Claire, Claire. Everyone's friend Claire. I'm not saying her last name on purpose because I feel fucking bad for this girl.

[Millie]

I really feel I'm definitely a piece of shit for sure.

[Andrew]

So 3:30, which, by the way, this fucking 4:00am shit, like, you can stay out till 4:00am in New York. Fuck no. What the fuck? That is a terrible idea.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is kind of around the witching hour. You've got to be careful.

[Andrew]

Like, stay as far away from dawn as possible. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Party till 11:45 and go home.

[Andrew]

Great, great. But, you know, she's a baby. So they go to a nightclub to celebrate her birthday. And then the Claire's like, let's get the fuck out of here. I called a cab. And then Emet's like, I'm staying out. And they're like, I'm gonna burp. Hold on. Excuse me. Then Emette, thank.

[Millie]

No, no, those are loyal fans. They're like, let it out, Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you.

[Andrew]

That's terrible. I don't want this to be me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It also sounded like a kind of like a cart if somebody wrote out a cartoon verb where it was like, yeah.

[Millie]

Bell chirps like, tim the Tool Man Tailor me.

[Andrew]

So like, fucking Claire is like, get in the fucking cab. And Emet's like, no, bitch, I'm staying out. And like, we've all done it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've all done it.

[Millie]

You always listen to Claire and at.

[Andrew]

3:50, Claire calls her and is like, are you okay? And Emet's like, I am going to this bar called the falls. It's at 4am you do you know this? I heard that was a good stage whisper. Okay, so the next evening, they're like, where the fuck is Emet? Like, she's fucking missing a shit. And so someone, an anonymous caller, calls the Brooklyn police and is like, I saw a fucking dead woman's body. Yeah. Does anyone know where Fountain street and Spring Creek park is? Nope. No. That was a big whoop. And it turns out that it's Beckon and met Saint Gan Gan. Okay, you guys, this sucks. She's nude and wrapped in a comforter. Her fucking fingernails are broken, showing that she fought as fuck. Which, like, get it, girl. Hands and feet tied, sock in her fucking mouth. Like hair had been cut off. Yes, yes. Beaten, Sexually assaulted.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was Videl Sussing. How dare.

[Millie]

She's like, what kind of cut the Rachel in that whole list.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's upset about the hair.

[Andrew]

Can I go on about how she was being murdered?

[Millie]

Stop.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know this is the whole problem.

[Andrew]

And she died of asphyxiation. And I don't even want to tell you about the fact that she had. It was because she had packing tape wrapped around her poor sweet face, according to the forensic psychologist. The forensic psychologist said that the killer tried to dehumanize her completely. When you hide someone's face, it means that you don't wanna see them as a human being. You wanna pretend there's just an object. And haircutting, too, I think is part of that, right? Where it's like. It's something aggressively male to cut a woman's hair. Which sounds so stupid, but I think when you're a fucking murderer, it's true. Yes. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Thoughts?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Feelings.

[Millie]

Well, it's also a weird thing. Cause it's like. It's like, I wanna murder humans, but I don't wanna murder a human. It's like, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Make up your mind.

[Millie]

Yeah, Fucking shifty weirdo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want to murder humans, but I also like to cut hair.

[Andrew]

Okay? So the last time that Emet had been seen, she was with one of the bouncers at this bar called the Falls. And this bartender had been asked to escort her out of this bar before closing. And then another bouncer saw her talking to her in front of the bar. So the dude, the fucking. The bouncer was an ex con, had spent more than 12 years in prison for drug possession and robbery. And he was on parole, which means he shouldn't have gotten a fucking job. But they didn't do any background checks on him. He wasn't a licensed security guard. Staying out past curfew was a parole violation. Like, he shouldn't have fucking been hired. Okay, but the dude who owned the fucking bar, his name was Dorian. He. He didn't want. He said that he had never. He didn't see her, he didn't know who she was. And later admitted that he knew who she was. And he said he didn't want to get involved because years earlier, his father's bar had suffered poor publicity and lawsuits after a patron was murdered. A different bar. Guess what fucking bar it is. Guess what fucking murder is?

[Millie]

The one of town prepp Dorian murders.

[Andrew]

The fucking preppy murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What.

[Andrew]

What the fuck are the chances Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The guy that owns the Falls, his father owned Dorian's Red.

[Andrew]

Red Hand. Right? Red Hand. Dorian's Red Hand. Right. Which we've covered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're just yelling all kinds of stuff.

[Andrew]

If you've listened to this for a while.

[Millie]

I've been to that bar.

[Andrew]

Have you really?

[Millie]

I have. I was very sad there. Preppy guys don't hit on me. Anyways, it's my own struggle. Let's go back to the girl who died.

[Andrew]

You should be glad about not getting hit on at that bar. Okay, so the owner is the fucking same dude? Yeah. Crazy, right? So the dude, the fucking. The bouncer whose name. Now. Okay, I'm gonna say his name is Daryl Littlejohn. His basement apartment is searched in Queens, and carpet fibers are found that match her on the adhesive tape. Blood and skin matching Little John's DNA are found on the plastic ties. And also from a snow brush found next to the body. So, like, I don't know how he bled. I heard something about, like, a nosebleed, but I'm like, why would you get a fucking nosebleed? Like, I don't understand how that happens.

[Millie]

Yeah, you're like a murderer, but you're also, like, kind of a geek.

[Andrew]

You're like, yeah, coax, cokehead. She scratched the shit out of your face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, cokehead actually makes sense if you're a bouncer.

[Andrew]

I'm so sorry, Bouncers. But especially, like in 2006, you're a fucking cokehead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Careful, careful.

[Andrew]

Hey. Okay, so. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Bunch of old shits found on the DNA. It fucking matches as fuck. And then additional evidence and they, like, ping the fucking towers, which is like the new DNA. I feel like. Like, you know what I'm saying? And then traces of GHB were found in her system, which is not a punk band, It's a date rape drug. So the fucking bar owner says, like, I don't know. I didn't see her. And then he later says he didn't want to get involved. But a bunch of people were like, he has ties. His family has ties to Rudy Giuliani, Johnny. So a lot of people are like, this is actually the killer. But he's got it covered up. And he was being frank and the other dude was being framed to protect Rudy Giuliani's family. He was, like, running for at the time. Okay, so don't say what. It makes me feel like I'm up. Don't say what? Okay, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, we can hear every word.

[Andrew]

You know? We really can. Okay. All right. They had gotten poor publicity after the Dorian's red hand. And then da, da, da, da. Okay, so he. Okay, so finally Dorian admits what he saw that night. And here, ready for a fucking piece of shit. Okay. He says there was a young lady sitting at the bar who didn't want to leave. I told her it was time to leave and she said, I'll leave when I'm finished with my drink. Says fucking and that. Which is like, yes, girl. And then he says, either finish it or I'm going to pour it out. And so she finishes it. Then he says she was just getting up to leave. And I told Little John, Daryl, Little John to escort her out, which is like, call a cab. You've never done any background check on this dude. Like you don't know who this person is and you're sending her out in the world as a drunk person.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it's the bouncer though. To them they're just like, Send them out with the bouncer.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I mean, I would trust the bouncer. I would ask a bouncer to walk me to my.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's what sucks about it.

[Andrew]

They're not. They're not drinking. They're fucking big and nice.

[Millie]

They've got broad shoulders. They're very cool, trustworthy shoulders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're fucking low key individuals that sit on stools.

[Andrew]

They don't want to be there.

[Millie]

They're like a bunch of drunk dickheads.

[Andrew]

That they have to fucking do. Yes, I get it. So the other bouncer named Tim said that Immet was slurring her work and that she had been slumped over at the bar. But then he was just like, bye. And like walked in the other direction. Like he just left them. And then Dorian said that he saw them. He saw Emet and Little John fighting outside. Okay. So he gets arrested. He gets fucking charged with all this shit. And then his defense attorney says that Dorian, the fucking bar owner might have been the real killer and that maybe John was fucking bringing women back to the club to like, as a thing, but it's like, clearly not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, so they like float a conspiracy. Okay. Yeah, because that doesn't seem unlikely. The other things I've heard about Dorian's red hand.

[Andrew]

Yeah. But he also said he. He told police that he had been banged up after a quarrel with his girlfriend a couple days after her body was found. It's like, why are. Why are you beat up? Right? That's like the first thing you look for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Okay. So they never investigated him. Okay, so the bar closes, it loses liquor license and Little John is sentenced to 25 years to life in prison. Okay, so, okay, so the judge says not one of these people spared a thought to the wisdom of sending an intoxicated young woman out into the deserted streets of Manhattan. Manhattan at 4am if only one of them had the common decency to call a cab. Taxi. We might not have. We might not be there here in this courtroom, which is like, so true, right? Like you. You're responsible at that point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is true. It's super true.

[Millie]

It's very, very true, true, true.

[Andrew]

If you're gonna own a bar and not take responsibility for a alarm woman slumped at a bar and just send her out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and the other thing is that it's that thing of like, being overserved or did you drink too much? Like, if you go to a bar, you have to be careful. And I think, I mean, it's just that thing of like, you can't just trust the bouncer. You can't just trust that other people will take care of you. It'd be nice, but it might not happen.

[Andrew]

And whether or not the bouncer just walks her out and lets her leave, like, he might not be a murderer, but he also. So the bar owner, the bartender should be aware that she's being at least somewhat taken care of. And yeah, she could be fucking drugged. And we don't know that. Like, it's so easy these days. Watch your drinks, you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, also the funny thing is like, and these days, then you're super drunk and they watch you get into an Uber, which is a car that a stranger is driving. Like, who knows who that fucking guy is?

[Millie]

It's just organized hitchhiking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Andrew]

That was great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's true.

[Andrew]

Where is this female only Uber we've been promised? I keep hearing about it and I fucking want it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you make that up?

[Andrew]

No, it's a thing. There's like a new. It's supposed to be like, women driving, women only. And like. Or like, if you're a woman and you're with a dude, it's okay, but you have to be a woman. Like, and it's women drivers. Good night.

[Millie]

Huh?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, I'm not on. I need to get on that email.

[Andrew]

Well, you don't need to be. Cause it's not. I've heard about it for two years and so not happening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Andrew]

But it should be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, so let that dream go.

[Andrew]

Let it go, let it go. You're gonna get. We're gonna get. Okay, so then while he's being arrested and Tried. Another woman comes forward because she sees his face on TV and is like, that's the dude who dressed like a police officer, handcuffed me and sexually assaulted me. They linked the DNA. It was him. He was a repeat sex assault serial rapist. Yep. There you go. Thank you. Another fucking woman's like, that dude fucking did that to me. And then. And she said that this other woman said that he wrapped her face up almost exactly like he did to this poor fucking baby girl in that. Okay, so the good news of all of that is that in 2007, New York enacted a law requiring security cameras at the entrance entrances and exoduses of all the 200 nightclubs that held a cabaret license. Which is so charming.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just like jazz hands. If you're doing jazz hands, you gotta get that cabinet.

[Millie]

Using a stool as a prop, it.

[Andrew]

Almost makes you think like, that they have clean bathrooms. And you fucking know they don't. You know, like, you can't call it a cabaret. And it's like graffiti bathrooms with no fucking thing.

[Millie]

My parents. My parents owned a rock club. And they had something in Dallas, Texas, where I grew up. And they had a thing called a dance hall license. And I always thought it was so funny to call it a dance hall. Cause it's like you have fucking gwar, you know, like literally like spraying like fake semen and blood on the audience. And it's like, we've got a dance hall. It's like, no, come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

CVG Dance house.

[Millie]

It's a CVG with a dance hall. And then, sorry to say, semen hangout.

[Andrew]

No, we have to say it once every episode. Or they. They just. It doesn't happen. So they have to. They have to have fucking videos. And the club owners agree to a voluntary guidelines. So they scan all of the identifications like they know who comes in and out. And they have to screen them for fucking weapons. Which has never happened to me in my life when I've gotten into it. Has that happened to you? I mean, look at this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I get padded down all the time. I really do.

[Andrew]

And they also have to provide more care in dealing with intoxicated female patrons who are alone, which is great. And then Boston did the same thing. And then also John Jay College of Criminal justice, they started an EMET St Guyon scholarship for second year students at the college. And. Yeah, and then. And they've also created a spirit of a Met foundation intended to support education for underprivileged children. And then that motherfucker Darryl Little John is in jail forever. Thank fuck. Prison forever. Thank fucking God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was nice. That was a good ending.

[Andrew]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was a real up ending.

[Millie]

That's the shitty Little John, not the fun one that says, yeah, yeah, little John. Is that what he does? Am I getting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that right?

[Millie]

They're like, yeah, it's not that one. Not that one.

[Jamie Lee]

Okay, we're back. Georgia, are there updates to this case?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, this case just really hits you because we've all been in situations like that. I think every woman who was in the Bell house that night has experienced a similar situation where, you know, I'm really glad they changed a lot to be like, you need to look out for drunk women and, like, can't just kick them out of your bar. That's just not how you do it. So there are no case updates. However, Aaron did find something interesting that I didn't know about. The owner of the bar, the Falls, was Michael Dorian, and he's the son of Jack Dorian, who owns Dorian's Red Hand, the bar connected to the preppy murder case. So they just both happen to have these bars, which I think is wild. And you covered that story in episode 13.

[Jamie Lee]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then also just a little note that rapper Lil Jon has continued to thrive since 2016.

[Jamie Lee]

That's right. Don't worry about Little John. He's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right, and then this is a three story episode. How exciting is that?

[Jamie Lee]

And also, how ill planned. What were we doing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why would we.

[Jamie Lee]

Yeah, everybody bring a story and we'll have a three hour show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then Jamie totally defied us by just saying, I'm not doing a New York murder. Goodbye.

[Jamie Lee]

She's like, I'm doing my favorite.

[Millie]

The end.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Jamie Lee]

Okay, so now it's time for our guest Jamie Lee's story about Dee Dee Blanchard.

[Millie]

Okay, guys. All right, man, here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Millie]

Thank you, guys. I really appreciate the support. It's a lot of press, you know, it's a lot of press.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Millie]

Got these two experts. I sounded sarcastic. It was 100% not. I. You both told me that I should do. You're like, oh, we're doing a show in New York, so maybe do a New York murder. And I didn't. I just straight up was like, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I do what I want. I'm Jamie Lee.

[Millie]

Because I thought about the title of the podcast is My Favorite Murder. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna be on it. So I wanna do what is legitimately right now, my very favorite murder. So without further ado, this is the murder of Dee Dee Blanchard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so good.

[Millie]

Oh man, it gets so good. Okay, so on June 14, 2015 in Springfield, Missouri, 48 year old Dee Dee was found dead in her home, covered in stab wounds. Why? How? Who would do such a thing? I will let you know very shortly. Okay, so here's the deal. Dede Blanchard, she was described as a quote unquote, large, affable looking person, which she reinforced by dressing in bright, cheerful colors. This is a real fun detail.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She ever think, sorry, but do you ever think about. I think my greatest fear is to find out how people describe me. I never ever want to know. I don't care. But God forbid, God for fucking bid. Large, affable, bright, cheery colors.

[Millie]

I mean, if I heard that about myself, I'd be like, oh please just murder me because I don't want to know that detail.

[Andrew]

Someone once told me in junior high, I like what some who's like, they said I had mousy brown hair and it changed my fucking hair, right? Hence the fucking bob. You can't have mousey hair.

[Millie]

What is mousy? I don't understand that descriptor. What does that even mean?

[Andrew]

Well, the bitch who told me that someone said that clearly was a fucking cunt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is what that means. That's what it means. That's what it means.

[Millie]

Here's another horror film fine detail. She had curly brown hair, she liked to hold back with ribbons.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, like cheer squad. She's at the Ren Faire.

[Millie]

Just that every day, woven throughout her braid crown, eating a turkey leg. Okay. So Dede could make friends quickly and inspire deep devotion in people. She did not have a job, but instead served as a full time caretaker for her daughter, Gypsy Rose, who was her disabled teenage daughter. So she didn't have a job, she was just a caretaker for Gypsy Rose.

[Andrew]

I'm busy. That's what she said.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would just like to say that when I was little, my grandmother, who apparently was a flapper, used to, if we. I was kind of a nudist when I was young, so I'd like get out of the bathtub and. And I would just run around the house. I thought it was really funny and it would like everyone would yell and chase me and it was a good way to get attention. And my grandmother, anytime I did something like that, my grandmother would go, look at you. It's Gypsy Rose Lee. Because she was a famous stripper. Yes.

[Millie]

She was a 1920s vaudeville star turned stripper. And she was also the inspiration for the Broadway show Gypsy. Fun fact, Dede didn't even know that. That she just liked the name Gypsy Rose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, she didn't even know that.

[Millie]

She's like, oh, my stripper daughter. No, she didn't even know. She didn't even know. She just was like, those words go together well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's like naming your daughter like Tawny on the pole. I mean, like, that's a.

[Millie]

That's the thing on the pole is a really beautiful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is a gorgeous.

[Millie]

On the poll on the pole. Okay, so that's Dee Dee Blanchard, our murder victim. Her daughter, Gypsy Rose. Let me tell you a little bit about her. She was small, frail, and pale for a 19 year old. She wore big glasses, was confined to a wheelchair, had a feeding tube, no hair, was missing several teeth, and spoke with a childlike voice. Voice. Okay, I know. Hold on. So if you asked Dee Dee what was wrong with her daughter, she would list off lots of ailments. Chromosomal. Chromosomal. That is a word. Chromosomal defects, muscular. Muscular. I don't know what that means, but okay. Chromosomal defects, muscular dystrophy, epilepsy, eye problems. And also Gypsy had leukemia as a toddler. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So many things.

[Millie]

So Dee Dee. Dee Dee said that Gypsy had, quote, unquote, the mind of a seven year old. And that's why she was homeschooled for her whole life, because she would not thrive in a normal public school setting.

[Andrew]

I mean, that's all of us. Am I wrong?

[Millie]

Yeah, I know. I'm like, who's well adjusted?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who thrives public school?

[Millie]

No one. So they were in Springfield, Missouri, and like everyone else around them in the neighborhood, Dee Dee and Gypsy's house had been built by Habitat for Humanity. It had amenities for gypsies, such as a ramp up to the door, a Jacuzzi tub to help with Gypsy's muscles. And this is a weird detail. Since Gypsy was too sick to ever go out, Dee Dee would project movies on the side of the house for other people in the neighborhood to come and see. And then she would charge a small fee because she was like, it's cheaper than a multiplex. And then the proceeds would go to Gypsy's treatments.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She charged a small fee for the movie, but the popcorn was still $14.

[Millie]

She's like, it's still $5, Dasani. I hope that's okay. It's very worth it. It's very delicious.

[Andrew]

Can I pay for that Jacuzzi? Because that sounds fucking nice.

[Millie]

Yeah. So, okay, so Dee Dee had told one of the neighbors, a woman named Amy. I'm sorry, guys. I'm like, can't speak. Okay. A woman named Amy Pinniger that she and Gypsy moved from Louisiana to Springfield, Missouri, because back in Louisiana, Gypsy's grandfather would put cigarettes out on her and that Gypsy's dad was no longer in the picture because he was an alcohol disaster. So all of the neighbors felt terrible for them, totally sympathized, empathized, loved them, and thought they were, like, the sweetest people they had ever met and wanted to do anything they could to help the family. Which is why.

[Andrew]

Red flag.

[Millie]

On June 14, 2015, it was such a shock when a post went up under Dee Dee and Gypsy's shared Facebook account. What do we do? What do we do? We're sharing Facebook.

[Andrew]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Disgusting.

[Millie]

Get your own.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Red flags of get your goddamn problems. Serious ones.

[Millie]

Okay, So a post went up on the Facebook that was very alarming. It said, the bitch is dead in all caps. Okay. Okay. So then friends. Okay, friends. Began to comment. Obviously, they were like, we've never heard you talk like that. I guess they just assumed it's Gypsy. They're like, we've never heard you talk like that. Oh, my God. You must have been hacked. Maybe we should call the police. As comments flooded the page, another post went up. Okay, it said, and I quote, I fucking slashed that fat pig and raped her sweet, innocent daughter. Her scream was so fucking loud. Lol. Anyway, so the police got a search warrant, and they went in the house, and they found Dede Blanchard face down on her bed, covered in stabs, and concluded that she had been dead for several days and Gypsy was missing. Okay, and all of the neighbors thought Gypsy was likely dead, too, because without the care of her mother, how could she even function? Like, she's so dependent on her mother's care. There's no way that she could survive on her own. Okay, but then remember our friend Amy Pinniger, the neighbor? Well, her daughter Aaliyah had some info. She was like a big sister to Gypsy. But unfortunately, they were rarely alone together, as Gypsy's mother was always by her side and very overprotective. So when Gypsy wanted to have real talk and confide in Aaliyah, it was through a secret Facebook account under the name Emma Rose. And Aaliyah told the cops that Gypsy had met a guy named Nicholas Godejohn on a Christian singles site.

[Andrew]

Quality Men. I'm kidding. You probably are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's so many things I want to talk about.

[Millie]

Oh, I know. This case is so loaded.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, this insanely problematic episode. Just every direction is problematic.

[Millie]

Okay, so she met Nicholas Godejohn on a crystal. Crystal. I'm sorry, guys. On a crystal, I had, like, half a Red Bull vodka, and I'm like, woo. Okay. On a Christian single site. She had been communicating with him for two years and was totally in love with him. Okay, so the police put a trace on those Facebook posts and the IP address linked to Nicholas Godejohn's house in Wisconsin. The police went there, and it was a quick surrender. Nicholas came out of the house, and Gypsy walked out after him. Not wheeled out, but walked out.

[Andrew]

It's America.

[Millie]

What Fucking. So many fucks.

[Andrew]

Christmas Miracle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a Christian dating site. Miracle.

[Andrew]

Miracle. It's plenty of fish.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that.

[Millie]

But those fish don't have feet, because evolution ain't real.

[Andrew]

Not real.

[Millie]

Okay. All right. So it turned out, guys, that in fact, Gypsy hadn't used a wheelchair from the moment she left her house a few days earlier. She didn't need a wheelchair. She could walk just fine. There was nothing wrong with her muscles, and she had no medication or oxygen tank. She's fine. Her head had simply been shaved all of her life to make her appear ill. It was all a fraud. She told the police. All of it, every last bit. Her mother had made her do it. Dee Dee Blanchard had Munchausen by Proxy, everyone's favorite thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A classic. Classic Disney.

[Millie]

Just how Munchausen I wrote here. Munchausen by Proxy is the cheaper clothing line by designer Proxy. Proxy is at Barney's. Munchausen is at Kohl's.

[Andrew]

Jamie's cracking up at her own hilarious joke. This is why we. This is why she was like, can we have Jamie Lee? I. I was like, fuck, yeah. We as a guest.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You put on the shirt and you're like, I don't know, I feel kind of sick. The shirt is poisoning you slowly.

[Andrew]

I feel like I want to hurt my baby when I wear this shirt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is making me feel crazy.

[Millie]

Does everyone know what Munchausen by Proxy is? Okay, for anyone who is listening, just a quick sentence. MBP is a mental health problem in which a caregiver. Caregiver makes up or causes illness in a person under his or her care, and it is a form of child abuse.

[Andrew]

Child.

[Millie]

Oh, God, I'm so sorry. Child abuse or elder abuse. Okay, so the couple posted to Facebook because Gypsy felt guilty and she wanted the police to find her mother's body sooner. Gypsy was in the closet while Nicholas was stabbing her. And Gypsy also reportedly tried to clean up some of the blood with baby wipes after the killing.

[Andrew]

Cleaned Clean upping. The cleanupping of the blood is what I was gonna say.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Andrew]

It's such a weird. Like you're gonna kill someone. Why would you, like, cleaning it up is such a personal thing, right?

[Millie]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Like, that means you're. You're caretaking.

[Millie]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also with baby wipes. That's just.

[Millie]

Oh, yeah. So inefficient.

[Andrew]

And also it's stupid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's just stupid.

[Millie]

It's stupid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stupid.

[Millie]

Idiot. I mean, come on. We all know Bronnie is the quicker. That was a plug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She'll be at the stress factory in October.

[Millie]

I don't know why that makes me laugh. Okay. Right, so. Okay, so sentencing. Nick Godejohn is still awaiting a trial, but Gypsy pled guilty to second degree murder, as Nick is the one who did the stabbing.

[Andrew]

Did he admit to that? Do we know if he's.

[Millie]

Yeah, he did. No, he did. He admitted to it. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Millie]

And she is eligible for parole in seven years.

[Andrew]

And here she.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rolls out, then stands up.

[Andrew]

Oh, my God. My favorite munchauser.

[Millie]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. She's like Gene Wilder in Willy Wonka. She just, like, does a flip. She's like, just fucking with ya.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sing.

[Millie]

I have a chocolate fountain. So, okay, so just to clue you guys in, Gypsy had been texting with Nicholas for years. They had been communicating through this, like, secret account. And the crazy thing is, Nick had no history of violence. The only thing he did have on his record was he was caught masturbating in McDonald's in 2013.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We all do. It's no big deal.

[Millie]

Those fries make me horny, too.

[Andrew]

That's never been caught. That's the only difference.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, when the mcgroup comes back.

[Millie]

Oh, wait, go ahead, go ahead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a reason to celebrate the McRib.

[Millie]

Actually, I just want to say, I don't know if he was masturbating, but he was definitely watching porn in McDonald's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, what's this?

[Andrew]

Very different. It's almost worse to me.

[Millie]

Yeah, you're not. You're just like, this is my chosen entertainment. It's like, finish the job, Nick. Anyways, so how did Dee Dee scam everybody for so long? It's pretty interesting.

[Andrew]

People are stupid.

[Millie]

Yeah. I mean, seriously, Didi did work for a little bit as a nurse's aide, so she had a knack for remembering medical terminology and spitting it back. Not only does she fool doctors, though, she also fooled charities. They got free flights from a volunteer. Volunteer.

[Andrew]

Violent.

[Millie]

What is happening to my mouth? Health in My brain a ball.

[Andrew]

Cheers.

[Millie]

How we do it Pilots organization. They also stayed at a lodge for cancer patients. And I don't know what that is. Ronald McDonald. I don't know. It's like a lodge. And then also got free trips to Disney World. Here's where it gets fucking real dark, guys. The abuse that Gypsy incurred over her life. Here are some of the things her mother made her do. Her mother. Mother had her salivary glands injected with Botox, then removed them because her mother complained that she drooled too much. She also had her eyes operated on because of quote, unquote weakness. She had a feeding tube implanted. And the reason that she was missing teeth was because her mother made her take seizure medication and it made her teeth fall out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That she didn't need.

[Millie]

That she didn't need. She didn't need anything. She's perfectly healthy. So there were two instances. Well, there was probably more than two instances, but there were two that I researched of doctors being like, what's going on here? But then nothing came to fruition, which is very sad. In 2007, a pediatric neurologist named Dr. Flasterstein asked gypsy to stand up, and she did with no problem. And then he told Dee Dee, like, oh, she should be walking. But then he didn't report it as abuse, but he was suspicious. And now he's apparently, like, very mad at himself for never reporting it because he was kind of on the damn you fluster scene.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He says every night he can't lick.

[Andrew]

Himself in the he was fluster scene.

[Millie]

Flustered Fluster. Okay, stop talking, Jamie.

[Andrew]

But.

[Millie]

Keep talking.

[Andrew]

Keep talking, Jamie.

[Millie]

Okay. In 2009, someone made an anonymous call to the Springfield Police Department to do a quote, unquote wellness check on Gypsy, where the police said. Oh. So the police went to the house, and they spoke to Dee Dee, and they're like, why are there so many different names and addresses for you and Gypsy? Because they. Dee would frequently change her first name, her last name. I think it was, like, I read something where it was like, sometimes she'd be like Clawdeen, and then she'd be like Dee, and then she was Dee Dee. Like, she was always kind of making these small tweaks to her first and last name.

[Andrew]

I feel like that call was coming from inside the house.

[Millie]

Yeah. And Dee Dee said that the reason she did that was because she was trying to avoid an abusive ex husband. More on that in just a minute. Dee Dee changed her. Oh, I already said that. Okay, cool. So this is. What else is. This is Fucking crazy. So when Gypsy went to prison, she told the police she was only 19, but she was actually 23. Yeah. Okay. So she didn't know her own age because of her mother's disgusting brainwashing. Okay. Also, Gypsy's father, his name's Rod. Rod was not a psycho alcoholic deadbeat. He always sent $1,200 a month in child support for Gypsy and visited on occasion. He had his own family, and he still was, like, in touch with them and trying to help. I didn't write this down, so I just want to say, for Corrections Corner, there might be some corrections. Yeah, but. So Rod impregnated Dee Dee when he was only, I believe, 17 years old, and she was, like, 24. So he just. He was just like, I, like, don't love you. I'm sorry, and I'm sorry I got you pregnant. And, like, it was just kind of this mistake. And then they ended up breaking up, and then she ended up having the baby, and, like, he moved on and had his own family, but he still was, like, paying for her. Like, he wasn't not assuming responsibility. I don't fully know the ins and outs of Rod and the relationship with the family, but I do know that financially, he was paying what he needed to pay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow, cool.

[Millie]

So this is where it gets. This is actually how it kind of becomes. There's a sort of a nice ending to this story. Yeah, I. I mean, relatively speaking. Don't cream your pants. Hold on. So Gypsy. I know I've never said that out loud, and I just did. Now it's first time for everything. So Gypsy in prison is actually. She claims that she is feeling freer than she ever did under her mother's care.

[Andrew]

And, dude, you're not fucking in a.

[Millie]

Wheelchair for fake size.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your mom's not standing behind you all the time.

[Millie]

Right. Michelle Dean is a journalist, and she wrote this really amazing article about this story for BuzzFeed. And she went to visit Gypsy in prison and said that she speaks beautifully. She is very eloquent. She is not, quote, unquote, slow in the least. And this was a quote from. Well, I guess Gypsy told this to Michelle. Michelle said she wants people to know that this wasn't a situation where a girl killed her mother to be with her boyfriend. This was a situation of a girl trying to escape abuse in prison. She's hoping to join all sorts of programs and to help people. She wants to write a book to help others in her situation.

[Andrew]

Orange is the New Black Everyone.

[Millie]

Yeah. And then this is the Last quote from Gypsy. I think she referring to Dee Dee, her mom. I think she would have been the perfect mom for someone that was actually sick. But I'm not sick. There's that big difference. Can I just tell you one last thing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please do.

[Millie]

So I. I just started looking. I tried. I tried to find, like, YouTube clips of different neighbors and stuff being, like, outraged. And one woman had, like, one of those, like, Nancy Grace level, like, thick accents where she's like, oh, my God. You know, she literally. Because all the neighbors were so blindsided, they were like, whoa, what's happening? She's not sick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I thought this girl.

[Millie]

Then one of the girls goes, her name is not Blanchard. It's Blanchard. She added the E.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She just wants.

[Andrew]

Her movie night money back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like. Yeah, that's right. That's a woman who paid too much for the neighborhood movie.

[Millie]

That's hilarious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was great, Jamie.

[Millie]

Awesome. Thanks, guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She nailed that shit. One more time for Jamie Lee, everybody.

[Millie]

Buddy, yeah.

[Andrew]

We love you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love you. You guys, you know, we're going to say now, stay sexy.

[Andrew]

Don't get murdered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we're back. And of course, you know this story.

[Jamie Lee]

Well, at this point, we all do. Yeah. So here we'll give updates together. Gypsy Rose served eight years in prison. She was released in December of 2023, and then she went on a media tour sharing her experience with the world. There's been backlash for her social media presence. It's a whole conversation that, of course, everybody on every side of the true crime audience has an opinion about. Gypsy ended up deleting her social media accounts at the recommendation of her parole officer, which I think is good for everyone. If you could please listen to your parole officer and just get off the Internet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you're gonna listen to anyone, don't let it be the Internet. Let it be your parole officer. Unless your parole officer is an influencer.

[Jamie Lee]

Oh, God, could you imagine?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. I think we're all rooting for her to, like, live a nice, happy life. Right? That's kind of the consensus. And she is living a much quieter Life. And on December 28, 2024, which is the anniversary of her prison release, Gypsy welcomed her daughter Aurora, her first child, with her boyfriend Ken Urker. So congratulations to her.

[Jamie Lee]

Nice. Also, the writer who wrote the buzzfeed article about Gypsy Rose is a woman named Michelle Dean. And since that reporting, she became the co creator, producer, and the writer of the first season of Hulu's the Act.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hell yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is the.

[Jamie Lee]

Patisha Arquette as Dee Dee Blanchard, Joey King as Gypsy, Limited series. So that's very cool.

[Andrew]

So awesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We love to hear that. That show is Trisha Arquette. Are you fucking kidding me? Like, legend, Congratulations or great job, Michelle.

[Jamie Lee]

Yeah, great job. You killed it. And then let's see this episode. Oh, so now we can talk about what we would name it if we could even think of a better name than Live at the Bell House.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. I mean, it just says everything you need to know. But if we were naming it today based on something from the episode, perhaps we'd call it. I think this is something that you have always loved. Loved Wireless. Janet Jackson. Mics obsessed. It's your dream.

[Jamie Lee]

My favorite thing. You know, a lot of people have vision boards and they have, like, houses and, you know, France. Not me. I just have Janet Jackson from the Control Tour. That's someday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if it's just all 90s electronics and, like, there's a fucking. There's a Discman and there's a fucking headphone and what else is there a mood ring for somebody? Yep.

[Jamie Lee]

There's a really short black jean jacket. We're doing this. Oh, also, I say at the end, which is so perfect. It's like talking about that the dawning awareness of what we're doing and how we're doing it is I actually say at the end of the show, this show is so problematic, which is really funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, I think it's because we were slowly doing it in front of people and realizing that the reactions were so different than. And not having any. And you're. Or Steven in the apartment, you know?

[Millie]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That there is.

[Jamie Lee]

Yeah, there's actually, like, this sounds like something, you know, I talk about with my sister all the time. It's like the way we grew up. Especially me, the youngest in a 70s family where latchkey kids and no one was paying attention. I just never thought I was being heard ever. I never thought I was being listened to. What I said didn't matter. What I did didn't matter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I could say whatever you wanted.

[Jamie Lee]

You can say, and who's gonna pay attention? And then you get into who's paying attention. They're like, whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where you're.

[Jamie Lee]

Oh, that's not what we're trying to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, maybe that's why you just started standup comedy, so you could be under a spotlight and people would listen to you. Finally.

[Jamie Lee]

Finally.

[Andrew]

It worked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You did it. And we did it. Yay.

[Andrew]

Thank you, guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You did it too. Thank you guys for listening to this episode of Rewind.

[Andrew]

We appreciate you.

[Jamie Lee]

Yes, we do. And stay sexy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And don't get murdered.

[Andrew]

Goodbye.

[Jamie Lee]

Goodbye, Elvis.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you want a cookie?

[Andrew]

Higher. With a team ready to conquer the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Grandest stage, Immortality awaits.

[Andrew]

Glory hallelujah. The stakes do not get any higher.

[Millie]

The two very best in the NBA.

[Karen Kilgariff]

An unforgettable journey.

[Andrew]

Hearing its finale, the NBA finals. Presented by YouTube TV.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pacers Thunder game one, Thursday on ABC.