Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 48: An Albert Fish Production

Summary

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark Episode Summary: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 48: An Albert Fish Production Release Date: June 11, 2025

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Introduction to Rewind and Episode 48: An Albert Fish Production

In this episode of Rewind with Karen & Georgia, hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark delve into one of their earlier true crime episodes, aptly titled "An Albert Fish Production." Originally released on December 21, 2016, this episode revisits the infamous case of Albert Fish, a serial killer whose heinous crimes have left a lasting impact on true crime enthusiasts.

Karen humorously introduces the episode:

[01:33] Karen Kilgariff: "Rewind. Every Wednesday we recap our old episodes with all new commentary, updates and insights."

Georgia adds her characteristic wit:

[01:40] Georgia Hardstark: "And today we're recapping episode 48, which we named an Albert Fish production."

Opening Gifts from Steven: Serial Killer Baseball Cards and Memoirs

A delightful segment unfolds as the hosts open thoughtful gifts from their dedicated sound technician, Steven Ray Morris. Steven surprises them with serial killer baseball cards and a poignant memoir, showcasing his deep appreciation and support for the podcast.

Georgia expresses her amazement:

[04:48] Georgia Hardstark: "And they're like baseball card packets. Stephen. I'm going to fucking have a seizure right now."

Karen reacts with enthusiasm:

[05:39] Karen Kilgariff: "British one, right?"

The hosts delve into the contents of the gifts, highlighting the Hall Mills case and Clifford Olson, among others, emphasizing the meticulous details each card provides.

Discussion of Live Shows and Meetups

Karen and Georgia reminisce about their recent live show at the Bell House, sharing anecdotes about interacting with fans and the supportive atmosphere of their meetups in Portland and Austin. They express gratitude towards their listeners and the community they've built around true crime discussions.

Georgia fondly recalls:

[11:17] Georgia Hardstark: "They had all kinds of crafts, but my favorite was they had name tags that said my favorite murder is. And then they wrote who their favorite murderer is on the bottom."

The hosts appreciate the creativity and dedication of their fan base, fostering a sense of camaraderie and shared passion for uncovering true crime stories.

Deep Dive into Starved Rock State Park Murders

Case Overview

The core of this episode revolves around the Starved Rock State Park murders, a chilling case that occurred on March 14, 1960, in Illinois. Three suburban housewives—Lillian Edding, Mildred Lindquist, and Francis Murphy—were brutally murdered while enjoying a weekend getaway at the Starved Rock Lodge.

Georgia sets the scene:

[24:19] Karen Kilgariff: "So remember we were talking about national parks and how everyone gets murdered in them constantly. And it's like, what the fuck?"

Investigation Details

The investigation initially points to Chester Otto Weger, a former park employee with a questionable history, including a prior conviction for rape. Despite passing multiple lie detector tests, Weger's peculiar behaviors during interrogation raise suspicions. Notably, his confession is marred by inconsistencies and claims of coercion, leading to debates about the validity of his admission.

Karen highlights a critical moment:

[36:24] Karen Kilgariff: "He was just bringing this up."

Conviction and Controversies

Despite the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, including a blood-streaked buckskin jacket and eyewitness testimonies, Chester Weger's conviction remains controversial. Over the decades, numerous supporters argue that his confession was coerced and that he may have been a scapegoat for the authorities' haste to close the case.

Georgia emphasizes the miscarriage of justice:

[41:37] Georgia Hardstark: "But if he goes down for those, at least something on the other ones, then he's in jail forever."

Recent Updates and Developments

Fast forward to 2025, Chester Weger has been denied parole 14 times, remaining incarcerated for decades. In May 2025, a mini-trial introduces new evidence, including a deathbed confession from a woman claiming Weger's innocence. Additionally, a granddaughter alleges her grandfather believed Weger was innocent, further fueling debates about the case's integrity.

Karen summarizes the latest developments:

[52:20] Georgia Hardstark: "And in fact, in 2020, after 60 years in prison, Chester Weger was granted parole and released from prison."

Exploration of the Sherri Papini Case

Transitioning to another perplexing case, the hosts examine the Sherri Papini disappearance. Initially hailed as a miraculous return, Papini's reappearance was later revealed to be a fabrication orchestrated to conceal an affair, leading to her conviction for fraud and false statements.

Karen narrates the unraveling of the case:

[99:26] Georgia Hardstark: "So the whole Sherry Papini thing was fake. It took them about four years to crack this case after the disappearance and the return."

The discussion highlights the complexities of verifying disappearances and the potential for deception, emphasizing the importance of thorough investigations and skepticism towards sensationalized narratives.

Personal Stories and Moments from Hosts

Throughout the episode, Karen and Georgia interject personal anecdotes, providing a glimpse into their lives beyond the podcast. From family gatherings and nephew interactions to witnessing serene moments like men engaging in Islamic prayers while driving, the hosts balance intense true crime discussions with relatable, heartwarming stories.

Georgia shares a touching moment:

[96:40] Kent: "That's a gorgeous moment to remind you that there's more than just this traffic and this and driving."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode draws to a close, Karen and Georgia reflect on the enduring impact of revisiting past cases. They emphasize the necessity of questioning established narratives and the importance of seeking truth beyond surface-level evidence. The hosts express hope that continued scrutiny and emerging evidence can shed light on unresolved cases, advocating for justice and closure for the victims and their families.

Karen concludes with a poignant thought:

[97:12] Karen Kilgariff: "It's super creepy. And there's a lot. The thing that's interesting is there's a lot of stuff cropping up."

The episode encapsulates the essence of My Favorite Murder—blending humor with horror, fostering a community of true crime aficionados, and relentlessly pursuing the truth behind the most baffling cases.

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Notable Quotes:

• [01:33] Karen Kilgariff: "Rewind. Every Wednesday we recap our old episodes with all new commentary, updates and insights."

• [04:48] Georgia Hardstark: "And they're like baseball card packets. Stephen. I'm going to fucking have a seizure right now."

• [24:19] Karen Kilgariff: "So remember we were talking about national parks and how everyone gets murdered in them constantly. And it's like, what the fuck?"

• [52:20] Georgia Hardstark: "And in fact, in 2020, after 60 years in prison, Chester Weger was granted parole and released from prison."

• [99:26] Georgia Hardstark: "So the whole Sherry Papini thing was fake. It took them about four years to crack this case after the disappearance and the return."

• [97:12] Karen Kilgariff: "It's super creepy. And there's a lot. The thing that's interesting is there's a lot of stuff cropping up."

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Final Thoughts:

This episode of Rewind with Karen & Georgia serves as a compelling reminder of the complexities and enduring intrigues within true crime narratives. By revisiting past episodes and integrating new insights, Karen and Georgia provide their audience with a richer understanding of unresolved cases, underscoring the perpetual quest for justice and truth in the realm of true crime.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

If you've ever wanted to be a part of a cult, but you don't want to commit to wearing one color for the rest of your life, then have we got a fan cult offer for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. Our fan club, the Fan Cult, just got an upgrade. You can finally enjoy my favorite murder with ad free episodes and videos. Plus binge our huge back catalog of exclusive fan cult videos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'll get weekly bonus audio and video access, our discord and early access to live show tickets.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And this is the rare cult that wants to save you money. So until Friday, June 13, there's a special discount.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Join the fan cult at fancult.supercast.com Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rewind. Every Wednesday we recap our old episodes with all new commentary, updates and insights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And today we're recapping episode 48, which we named an Albert Fish production.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, that's to true crime enthusiasts. I know. I almost did a spit take. It's like, that's the only.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, no one else cares.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But true crime, it's horrible and hilarious. You get that Stephen J. Cannell typewriter, he throws the piece of paper in the air. But it's Albert Fish. This episode came out on December 21, 2016, and that means it was conceived on March 29, 2016. If you do the math, our podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do they go for nine months or do we like alien egg Podcasts are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Human baby length of fertilization.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I disagree. I'm an earther or whatever. What do I call it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're a flat. I'm a flat fertilizationer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Anyway, let's listen to the intro of episode 48. What's wrong?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nothing. It just feels like it's been a long time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It does. Oh, it has.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It has been.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Are we recording?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Good, good, because we need to get this figured out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It has been. I guess we. I guess almost two weeks. Is that right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Since like apartment recording.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, because we did our Bell House show last week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was A fun. That was different.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was nuts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was nuts. That was a break from reality.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was super fun. We love you, Jamie Lee.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jamie Lee's book's coming out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Thanks for being widiculous. Is coming out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think I called it Weddalicious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Weddalicious. You did. With the absolute confidence. That's all that matters, is when you say stuff like that. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They should change the title right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, they might have to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is my favorite murder. It's a podcast starring Georgia Hardstark and Karen Kilgariff. Our sound technician is a man named Steven. Steven Ray Morris.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And his mustache. And.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And his.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is day 403 of Steven's mustache. We've been counting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's doing it. He's going to grow it all the way around his mouth. I think that's my personal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I thought you were going to say his head. That would be funny. But just tie it in the back. Oh, my God. Why is it thing just a mustache? Sounds like a nightmare. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You have to do it now, Steven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You have to. Only for you, Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Steven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Speaking of only for us, Steven brought us. Okay. Steven is like, does everything for us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Does everything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's so fucking sweet and wonderful and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also thinks about things, like much more than we do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because we don't know. Because we didn't know this was going to be a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. So. But he did.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He did. And he, like, was prepared for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He prints things out for us. Plans. But also he brings us presents. He brought us present.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This was holiday presents.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Non denominational holiday presents at our. Each seat and on the couch.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So we decided we're going to open them on the air with you guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know what this is going to be. Oh, my God, Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It sounds amazing. Is this. He got us serial killer baseball cards.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Crime, G men, mass murderers, serial killers and gangsters.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they're like. They're like baseball card packets. Stephen. I'm going to fucking have a seizure right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really good. Are these like, old?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, like, these are like, hard to find.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, they're from like the 90s, I think. Oh, Stephen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm like, I see people post these on the fucking Facebook page. Like, I've had these since the 90s and everyone's like, fuck you. And you got like five packs of them for both of us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is really good. I really like them. Is there gum in there?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wouldn't eat it if there was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm going to. And then I'll sue you if Anything happens, and this is. Now there's a secondary gift. There's another, bigger one because he's a classy man that gives you a small gift with a bigger gift underneath it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What is it? It's his memoir of what assholes we are. What'd you get? Let's see.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the book.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a vintage book.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. This is the book of Vicki Morgan and Alfred Bloomingdale and the affair that shook the highest levels of government and society.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

British one, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was the woman in Washington, D.C. oh, D.C. the dominatrix. And there was sex scandals. The COVID of that book is fucking. I want that on a shirt. Wait, this is a cult in, like, the 80s. This one is by Larry Connor. It's called Cults that Kill. Probing the underworld of occult crime.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, Stephen, know us? I thought for a second, I thought this book was about somebody that was in the Bengals, because that's totally the cause.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Written in 1988. I'm so fucking, like, at the height of the Satanic panic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is so good, Steven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I call it the Satanic Panic. Stephen, we got you a bottle of single malt Scottish.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We got you this old wrapping paper.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God, Stephen. I'm sweating because I'm so happy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's really good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't wait to. I don't think I should open these.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You give and you give. Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen, you should open one. Open one of the packs. Good idea. I'm doing it. Let's do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, when we talked about the plan was that we were gonna open these on the air and then. Stephen, what'd you say it would be good for?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, asmr. Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, my God. O. Oh, my God. What'd you get? What'd you get? Read a couple.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I got the Hall Mills case, which on September 16, 1922, a couple walking down a country lane near New Brunswick, New Jersey, found two bodies lying under a crab apple tree. It was Reverend Edward Hall, 41, and Mrs. Eleanor Mills, 32, a member of his church choir. Both had been shot. Her throat had been cut. Wait, I've heard this story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is. We're only picking our murders from these decks from.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's gonna shuffle them up this week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's weird. They're only from the 90s and before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our work has been done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, mine. I have one Clifford Olson, who looks like a real fucking piece of work. Look at him. Blah, blah, Blah, blah, blah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, that's a good dramatic painting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's see here. So. November 1980, a 12 year old British Columbia girl disappeared. Her mutilated body was found a month later. In 81, a 13 year old girl vanished, followed by a 16 year old boy a week. The boy was found dead, his skull crushed. In May, a 16 year old girl disappeared. And then in June, a 13 year girl. And then in July. Jesus. I'm doing him for my next murder. No spoilers. No. Yeah, all spoilers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you reading till the end?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck, that's good, Steven. I do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

These are amazing cases.

[Georgia Hardstark]

These are like treasures that I will treasure forever than ever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're gonna start trading them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've never heard of half of these people. Jack the Stripper.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not kidding him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What he do stripper in 59. 8. I'm gonna. I'm gonna rephrase this. A sex worker.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was strangled and clad only in her slip was found near their Thames. Thames. Thames. Shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's one of those ones. The only reason I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's one of those famous ones that I should. I've been to and I should fucking know she was found. Shit happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look, Sonny Bean. Remember I did that one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the. I am honestly like glowing right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is best Christmas ever, Stephen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the best Hanukkah ever. Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Richard Cottingham. Wait a second.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm Jewish. What? What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Richard Cottingham is the one I just did on the last episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You just did him and you. And then he walks through the door.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You got out of jail already.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God, you did. I'm gonna open all of these.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This painting makes him look way better than he actually looks in real life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if we have a whole. Okay. What if the next the minisode is just us opening these and reading them to each other?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a great idea. Let's absolutely do that for real because these are amazing cases.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dude. It's happening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also look at how hot this guy is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who's that? What's this story?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know. He's kind of like Mick Jaggery, but younger.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tune in to the next Minnesote.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the Minnesota. Yeah. Holy shit, that's exciting. Oh my. You're fucking angel. What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stephen, What? Oh, I was going to say they.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Were very controversial at the time because they were like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

People were obsessed with them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I remember, remember they had those. The playing cards of cold cases that they would give to inmates. Oh, yeah. In the. In prison. So that they would like be playing with these cards. And they'd be, fuck, man. And they'd, like, read about the victim and be like, this fucking dude I was in prison with has admitted to this. And like, there. I think there are not a lot, but a couple cases that got solved because of that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a brilliant idea, isn't it? Yeah. I do remember, though, when these came out, it was like, how dare you was the kind of. Overall, it was like, so sick. With, like, the similar podcast we are, the how dare you podcast of today, but for different reasons.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And our podcast comes with a stick of shitty gum.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right, our podcast. Listening to it is the same thing as eating old, powdery, pink, flaky, hard to chew a baseball card gum.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Remember when you would just, like, eat it out of. Not spite, but just like, I bought this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's car pack. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Vince buys the wrestling ones a lot. Like the old school wrestling ones, too. And yeah, I think he burns the gum.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Burns it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. Smokes it. What if he just was, like, addicted to. Oh, my God, vintage gum.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The fumes of vintage gum.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That sounds like the new what parents get told, like, they're the junior high kids are into now. You see old gum in your kid's room on the next 2020, they're smoking it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would just like to say really quick that at that show we had so many great people. It was crazy. And we got to say hi to so many awesome listeners, which was really fun. It is and ever good at the Bell House.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We have to give. Yes, they. They stay late to, like, let us talk to all the people who stuck around. And they were really cool at, like, moving the line along. They didn't have to do that. They were.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, they were great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The whole staff was amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The whole staff was great. Thank you, Andrew, for booking us. This was our little. Our own booking long ago, where we thought this would be fun. And we were right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would just like to say thanks to my friend Carrie who came to see me, and he literally yelled, hey over like, five people and then walked away because he didn't want to have to wait in line.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I met him. He was nine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And same with my friend Cullen, who apparently just sent me a message saying, yeah, I wasn't gonna wait around. And then my friend David Knowles, who you did meet, who I've known since we were 12 years old. We met in sixth grade. I went to the freshman winter formal with him. He waited in line and he was the second to last person in line. And when the like third to last person walked away, I go, the fuck are you? I'm gonna see you after. It was like he waited.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He probably thought everyone knew you. These are Karen's friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're trying to say hi in an organized house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was so nice. We got. We again got a lot of fucking amazing presents. I got some of. I just keep getting the best cat toys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ever. Like that's the whole. That's my scheme for this podcast is to get free cat toys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We got a cat toys. And what was in that other bag? In a bigger bag?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Makeup.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Oh, that makeup I also want.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we need to. If you go to our Instagram, it's my favorite murderer. I post a lot of like the photos and stuff of what people gave us and shout outs and shit. One thing we got that I just need to fucking. I got in the mail and started opening it and I was like, can't open this. I'm gonna cry without Karen. So this person, this girl named Molly, has this website called theurbansmith.com and she makes this like incredible jewelry and metalworking and like these gorgeous things. And she made us these necklaces that are so beautiful and delicate that say stay sexy on them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, they're like our twinsies necklaces.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then she made me these two little charms that look like if Elvis from ever let me in my fucking life, put a collar on them without murdering me, that would you put these on it. And it's just these little beautiful monogram things that say Elvis and Mimi that I'm gonna wear as a neck. Like, they're so beautiful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, they're really nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the Urban Smith.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just wanted to give a shout out to whoever gave us the Colourpop lippy sticks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Colourpop brand. We got eyeshadow and we got lipstick, but this Lippy Stix Colourpop Lippy sticks in the color Poison. I think they wrote and said, I hope this is a color that you can use. Cause I've talked so much about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She knows you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so perfect. Cause it's a really good color, but it also stays on. It's like a stain. God bless America.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, and we're not and we don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. Yeah, don't worry about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And so we always will.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On my favorite murder Facebook page, there were two meetups that I got to look at this morning. One from Portland, Oregon, one from Austin. Yay. And they were so cute. And the thing that kills me is how much crafting people put in. They Do I mean, is that the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One that did the serial killer drawings?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was. I'm gonna have to look. Which one did the drawing? I have it on a piece of paper. That's all right. I wrote it on this piece of paper right here. Portland did the drawings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, Portland.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They did, like, coloring books.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Coloring books of serial killers. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And on the Austin meetup, they had all kinds of crafts, but my favorite was they had name tags that said my favorite murder is. And then they wrote who their favorite murderer is on the bottom. So one lady is like, smiling, but it just says Albert Fish. I love the idea that he's your favorite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's such a great idea. Because then you could come up to someone and be like, oh, my God. I know a lot about that one too. And then you guys talk about it and then it's not awkward like at parties.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the whole point, dude. Everyone's doing it, dude. I think that's all of our business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Live show shit. There's some drama going on. We're not going to talk about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're going to say that we have no control. Tickets.

[Georgia Hardstark]

None.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or shows or.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or scalping places.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I mean, we're really excited. They know that we're gonna.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's gonna be more. If we're not going to your city, it's because we're saving it. We're saving the best for last.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's because we don't choose where to go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm not gonna say the one state I refuse to go to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wouldn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm not going to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You'll know when we've gone to 50. 50, 50.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How many are there? Are there 52? No, that's cards in a deck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's cards in a murder deck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's get back to the cards.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What do you want to talk about?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess. I think I just had an idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's hear it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What about merch of baseball hats with just. Baseball hats with just a single face of a murderer on it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like a drawing or like a fucking sketch?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think it would have to be a drawing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Drawing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't nobody steal this. I swear to fucking God, if I see this on. If I see this on fucking Etsy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Welcome to your house means we have tonight. Sunday. We have till Thursday to make this goddamn happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Steven, mute it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stephen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cat Solon, get on this, please. Wouldn't you wear just baseball hat's a great idea because.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. A black hat and then Just Albert Fish's face on it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if it was what I'm talking about? Oh, my God. What if it was one of those beanies that you pull over your face and it has the eye and the mouth?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those are called balaclavas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just said, my favorite murder is. And you just pull it. And she's like a thing now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is intellectual copyright property. We own this and we can prove it in a court of law. Don't you steal the balaclava idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We'll come. What's it called?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Balaclava. The thing that you pull over that, like, bank robbers use.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's. I didn't know that's what it was called.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We will come to every 50 state and track you down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for the one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Except for the one that I refuse to go to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's Maine. Just kidding. It's not. It's not. It's not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's. No way, man. They got lobsters. Anyone that has lobsters?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I actually love Maine, and I've wanted to go there since I was a kid because I used to read these books called Mega. I think it was called Meg of Maine. And we're going. I think that was what it was called.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I would go to Maine so hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's just add a weird tour. Let's have a weird tour called we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do what We Want.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we do what We Want. There's not enough people to fill whatever fucking venue.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one's interested.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody cares. They don't fucking like you. They're just trying to make a fucking living.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're gonna go to Maine. We're gonna go to Oneida, New York. We're gonna go to Montreal, where they don't like anything. We're gonna go to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Down to Irvine, California, which is the worst thing that ever happened in my.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wouldn't it be amazing to go to Irvine and not sell any tickets?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just be like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just all. You know, every girl who made fun of me in elementary school gets in for free.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And they text me, and they get.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A front.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Text and talk to each other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That'd be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God, this is turning into, like, an Albert Brooks movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We. An Albert Fish movie. Oh, my. An Albert Fish Productions.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the best name for a production company. And it's just a cartoon of him with all those pins inside of him. Oh, my God, he's so gross. All right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do we have to do the murder part? This is so fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are those who say we do have to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Last time you went First. Okay. You pointed at me and then moved your finger towards yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I was just kind of ready to go with whatever you said.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I do love that in the live episode at the. At the venue, we were like, had to ask the audience who went first last time. And a bunch of people like Georgia, like, they knew.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, it's so sweet. It's because they know we don't know anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was so fun. And the craziest thing to me is someone who wasn't there said at one hour and 15 minutes in, did I hear Guy Branham laugh?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, we got like seven of those.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's. That's amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because there's people who are. Guy Branham, who is our friend and he's also a co host of Pop Rocket, which is a very popular podcast. But also he's a well known comedian and he has the most distinctive laugh that makes you want to start laughing. Yeah, it's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's so nice. Like, this is. This is how low it is in la. But he remembered my name when he met. After he met me. And Vince is the same way too. Where it's like, he didn't have to remember our name. Like, that's how low it is. Where it's like, you remembered my name. He's so nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're just looking for some decency.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. He read how to Do Things with Friends and then Remember Them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He read that book.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just coughed and burped at the same time. But I just want to say I wanted to delay this one more minute class because I have Defiance disorder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that a thing? Yeah, I have it too. I don't know what it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just that you can't do what people want you to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. I fucking have that. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It makes sense for both of us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It does. I'm learning a lot from you, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have it very bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm learning that it's okay from you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is. I mean, it's fine because everybody has something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I once had a fucking soccer coach when I was like in junior high, hold his fist up to my face and say, you need to stop fucking being defiant. And I was like, fuck you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And did you walk away?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The hell yeah, girl. That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's probably fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was just gonna say that's the show I'm working on right now is Guy Branham's show. Yeah, that's the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It just makes. It's. I don't have to be secret about it. Because I'm happy that guy gets to have a show and it's gonna be on true TV in, like, probably spring called Talk show. The game show. It's gonna be awesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That reminds me from BoJack Horseman of what was it like? Celebrities. Do they know anything? What do they know? Let's find out. That's Guy Vernon. Deserves a show. So much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That guy is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's a fucking lawyer, literally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, he has a law degree.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shut the fuck up. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. He's smarter than everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

National fucking treasure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And murder time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we're back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I owe Jamie Lee a huge apology for calling her book, which is called Widiculous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's Wediculous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the real name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's the real name I kept calling it, and it still looks like that to me. Wedalicious. Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're both. They both work. Maybe if the book was about wedding cakes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yours would be better.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is like a different person than Jamie, you know, than the person who would write Wediculous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, yeah, it's a totally different vibe and it's bad marketing. Exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So there's that, and I apologize.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I do like though that you stated, fuck writing a book, which then future you. It's like you could feel it coming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, someone's gonna make me. Someone's gonna make me. No, I, I, I don't know why I would say that, because that was, like, my dream, my whole life, but it's just so daunting, I had to be forced to write it for sure, even though I wanted to do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, yeah, that's how writing is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is. That's how anything is. That's how everything is. Oh, you want that? Work hard. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Now you ruined it. How about you hand it to me for once? Are you listening to me? I can't tell, but I don't want to. Okay, we're gonna now go into Georgia's story from this episode. It's about the Starved Rock State park murders. Summer's here, and if you're over the age of 11, guess what? You still have to wear shoes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Might as well get comfortable with Bombas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Getting serious about running. Bombas athletic socks are designed to fight blisters, wick sweat, and keep you comfortable, whether you're on mile one or marathon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Training, if you're planning your summer vacation. They even have socks that can make international flight lights bearable. Bombas compression socks help curb aches and keep those legs energized for all the sightseeing ahead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Headed to a wedding. Bombas has ultra soft dress socks that work with heels or hard sole shoes so you can stay comfy and keep dancing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you know what goes great with new summer socks, fresh white T shirts, waterproof slides, and a few pairs of buttery soft underwear. Bombas makes all of that too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's really true. I actually got some T shirts and some underwear the last time we got sent some Bomba stuff because I have so many of their socks and love them. And all of the other stuff is as high quality. Just like it's your go to thing. Super soft, super comfortable, great to wear.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is. I love those undies. Sorry, I said undies. Head over to bombas.com mfm and use code mfm for 20% off your first purchase.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's b-bas.com mfm code mfm at checkout.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bombas.Com mfm and Use code mfm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So remember we were talking about national parks and how everyone gets murdered in them constantly. And it's like, what the fuck? I have one for you today that I'd never heard about. And then I, you know. Okay, they looked it up. Okay, here's the name of the fucking state park. It's called Starved Rock State Park. So immediately you're like, oh, can I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guess where it is?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wyoming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Illinois it sounds. But you know, they're probably real close to each other.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. They're probably close.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you see the meme someone made of. It's just a. It's a photo. Of what? Like Wyoming. And it says over the top and whatever state is next to Wyoming. That's what you said.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. I can't pretend. I cannot pretend to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're so smart in certain things. Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so dumb in most things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And yet defiant as. So that's why you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's why we're still not starting this murder TV show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God damn it. Okay. Star Rock State Park. It's a state Park Park. It's 100 miles outside of Chicago. The reason it's named this. Okay, so it's a rock fortress on the Illinois River. A band of. And I'm gonna say this wrong and sound like such a fucking asshole. Illiniwik Indians lived there originally in the 17th, and then in the 17th century, they're besieged by a bunch of fucking assholes. They kind of lock them in. And so the people who didn't die by trying to escape the Indians were died from starving. Oh, fuck yeah, dude. Okay, so on March 14, 1960, these three suburban housewives who are from A little bit outside of this area. They're in Riverside. Three suburban housewives go to Star Rock State park for a long weekend. They're all just like, let's get the fuck out of here. One of the women had, like, convalesced her husband through a heart attack. They needed to get the fuck out of town. They wanted to go and enjoy the area's hiking trails. It's apparently gorgeous. They're staying at the Starved Rock Lodge. Excuse me. I burped. So this is Lillian Edding, Mildred Lindquist. They're both 50. And Francis Murphy, who's 47, the young one. They're wives of business executives. They're mothers of grown children. And they're prominent in their town for civic involvement and their friends through the Riverside Presbyterian Church. They're good fucking women, you know, they're like, we deserve. Like, this is. This is their. What's it called when they.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, Girls weekend.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just had that feeling right as you finish that last sentence that they're all gonna die. Well, yeah, it was the. And you know what that feeling feels like to me when I remember what we're doing? It feels like when the dentist puts the lead. Lead blanket over you when you get your X rays taken.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then it's just like, oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're like, this lead thing isn't gonna do anything too. It's like that lead thing where they're like, this is probably maybe. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But anyway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's it. This is the lead blanket of sadness.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They check into the lodge, they put their luggage in their rooms, and then they have lunch at the lodge's like, beautiful restaurant. And then they're like, we're gonna go for a hike. Like, post lunch hike. Okay. Well, that evening, Lillian's husband is supposed to hear from his wife. And so he doesn't. And he calls the staff. And the staff is like, oh, no, we saw them, but they're not in the room right now. They'll call you tomorrow. The next day, he calls again, and the staff again says like, oh, no. You know, we saw them at lunch and they're here. They're just probably out. And then the next day there's a crazy fucking snowstorm. And so this dude, Lillian's husband, named George is like, go into my fucking wife's room and see if she's there. They check the rooms, their luggage is all packed. Their car is still in the same place. Like, they clearly hadn't been there in two days. So George calls law enforcement and volunteers come out, and they start a search party. And at the time, this local newspaper reporter hears about it, he fucking skedaddles over there and he drives into the park and he comes across some kids near a ravine who are shouting. And it turns out this, like, local camp had been hiking, and these, like, teenage boys found bodies on one of the nearby trails, which is like, dude, you poor kids. So what's, what's found? And the fucking newspaper guy goes up there, scoop of the fucking century. And it was called the crime of the century for a while. He finds the mutilated bodies of Lillian, Mildred and Frances. They're laying side by side, partially covered with snow. They're on their backs under the ledge of a small cave, and their lower clothing had been torn away and their legs were spread apart, which we know is a fucking sadistic as fuck way to leave someone. They had all been beaten viciously on their heads, and two were tied together with heavy twine. They are covered in blood and their legs were blackened with bruises. Poor fucking thing. So because this had happened two days earlier, and then there was a snowstorm, there were several inches of snow covering the whole area, which means all this fucking evidence they could have had was lost. But they did some digging and they found a ton of blood beneath the snow. And they found a frozen tree limb that was streaked with blood, and they thought that was the murder weapon. And then also a trail of blood led from a different area into where the women's bodies were found. So they thought that the bodies had been dragged and positioned under the sledge. The coroner said the women had obviously been. Obviously been quote, molested. But they couldn't. They couldn't find any evidence of rape because it had been so long and had been snowing. Let's see. And it seems at the time of death was pretty shortly after they had left the lodge after lunch. And there was no motive for the murders because the women had left all their money and jewelry in their room. And so maybe the killer got mad when he found out that there was nothing on them but the strap to the camera. They brought a camera and binoculars and the strap to the camera was broken. And there was photos of them, like, sightseeing on. On the camera, which you can see online.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, so the strap was broken, but the camera is still there?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Okay, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it wasn't robbery?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Yeah. Or maybe it was attempted and the women fought back. Something. So there were no suspects for eight months. And so the county state attorney, whose name was Harold. No, Harland, Warren Harland. That's a fucking amazing name. Uses own money and purchases a microscopes, a microscope. And begins like doing this crazy study of all the evidence.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, I missed what year this was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, 1960.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay. He buys his own microscope. And also everyone's name is something that's old fashioned.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay? It's like these are all older people in 1960. So, you know, they're all like, you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Know, from the 30s or whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. Okay. So he buys his own microscope, he begins studying the evidence, and he's like, the twine is going to fucking tell me something. Where is this twine from? And he finds that there's two kinds of twine. A 20 ply cord and a 12 ply cord. And he starts at the first place he can think of, which is at the lodge, and he brings it to the manager of the Cord and he's like, does this look familiar to you? And it turns out the manager's like, I think those were from the restaurant. And they go back into the fucking area where the food is kept in the fucking pantry and there's the fucking twine. Same fucking twine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they don't have to go far to find whoever did this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They do not. So they had originally. Warren had originally thought that the killer either worked at or had access to the the lodge. But all the lodge employees had been given polygraph tests and they all passed. But he calls them back for another round of testing, and that is when a former dishwasher named Chester Otto Wager was brought in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like that name combination.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because he has a middle name.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, yeah, they always name the middle name, but Chester's not a good. It's not a good name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

W, E, G E R. Chester Weger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You don't name your child in a name that has the same two letters at the end on both names.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Chester Weger. Oh, is that a thing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's my personal thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I see that. No, I get that. I've never thought about that. So he's a former park employee and he had quit recently, like over the summer to go paint houses with his father. But while he was working there, he served meals to the police and reporters while they were like, like looking up for evidence and shit. So they give him a lie detector test. And the tester, he's like this. Really? They brought in like a really good tester. They said his face turned white during the testing. Chester walks away and the tester said, that's your man. Ooh, yeah. So Weger is 21, he's a small man. He has a wife and two young children. He had resigned that summer, and lodge employees reported seeing scratches on his face. But he had passed several lie detector tests already.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, because ultimately, we know that lie detector tests, really, they're 50. 50.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're only right half the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Now we know this, and there's a reason they're inadmissible in court, is because they're. They're not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They. They're based on your heart rate. And if you are, like, a sociopath or something, you won't have a reaction to. You won't be nervous to tell a lie. You won't care.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And if you trul what you thought you saw. So, like, if it's a witness who's like, I saw a man in a red jacket. I know I did. And if they believe that, they're going to not have been being deceitful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Even if it's not true, they won't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have the physical reaction.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I think someday that. I think someday witness testimony is going to be just like lie detector tests, where it's like, this is inadmissible because.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone'S a little bit not reliable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're all a little wrong. I think that's actually a good thing to remember.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I always think I remember things always. And I'm positive. Positive. And then. And then I'm wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it's the same thing of, like, how people say, like, there's three sides to every story. Your side, their side, and the truth. And it's like, you know, the argument that you and I got into sounds this way from me and sounds that way from you. And you have to be like, well, somewhere in the middle is really what happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you can't. You have to know that you don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. The other person's. This is psychology podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's true, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're so smart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, how do we even.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But not about states about feelings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pardon me. I just thought it'd be perfect. I was gonna make that one quiet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I figured I'm putting my jacket back. You're cold.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so loud.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. This is not a blankie. This is not good for audio.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen, have a blanket. There's a blanket right there. I barely peed. I peed on it once. Please. Are you cold?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen, behind you is a thermostat. Please turn that heat on right there. But that thing that looks like a fire hazard from the 1950s. Yeah. Click that little thing up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is worth it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kaboom. Click that Up. No, no, to the left. The little switch. Yeah, up. There we go. You see the fire and the wall right there, It's. I need to move. This is an old. This is serious. The night my favorite murder got lit on fire. All right. Okay, okay. Do you. Blah. So they're like, it's totally him. And then he was like, hey, I have, I just happen to have this buckskin jacket and I want to admit that it's covered in, quote, dark stains and it later turned out to be human blood on this jacket.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was just bringing this up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I don't know if that's totally, you know, what, how it happened, but somehow they found a buckskin jacket that was covered in dark stains that happened to be human. But in 1960, it could not be typed or matched to a specific victim. Which is like, come on, you guys, get it to fucking together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like, we can't. It's only 1960s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just blood stains. At this point, we just want to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to the moon. That's all we care about. It's the sexiest movies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were going to say movies which is actually similar. Our parents failed us. So he does further polygraph tests. Again, he's fucked. And he fails them all. So the investigators begin checking into similar cases in the area. And they come across a reported rape and robbery that had taken place a mile from starved rock in 1959. The year before. A 17 year old girl had been sexually assaulted and she had been bound with twine similarly to the Starved Rock women. Okay, and then I, you know, in all my, like, weird digging of like old articles and shit, the one I found in one place this information that the attack had been reported by two teenagers, a boy and a girl. The boy said they had been robbed while the girl was sexually assaulted. They told the cops about it and the officers didn't believe their story and they sent the couple away with a cursory investigation saying that they thought the story was made up, that they were robbed, that they were robbed and she was fucking sexually assaulted. They were like, you little lying 17 year olds, get the fuck out of here. What? I mean, like, why would you fucking make that up? Let's get attention.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I mean, that's what that, that's what they used to say, stuff like that back then, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So maybe they had. Should have paid attention to that. Anyways, so the victim, the female victim, has brought a stack of mug shots. She's sorting through them and when she sees the photo of Chester, she starts to Scream. Which is so chilling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So they get arrest warrant for him on the rape because they can't prove the murders yet. So they get him off the streets and then they have him in custody. They start questioning him about the rape and then they press him about the murders and they keep him in the interrogate in the interrogation room for hours. At 2am he finally asked to see his family and then he confesses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But before that, he's like really quick though again. I have a buckskin jacket. I just wanted you guys to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It'S the blood from the buck that was fucking killed for this jacket.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm just gonna bring this up real quick because I want. It's pretty cool jacket.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Like, I just want you guys to like admire my jacket.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Anyway, I'll go back to my confession.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he confesses. He says that he got scared. He tried to grab the women's pocketbooks and they fought him and he hit them. And the pocketbook turned out to be the camera that was around her neck. He thought it was like a pocketbook. So he gives him that interesting detail. Then he says they were like, why did you drag the women into this ledge, into this cave? And he says it's because he had spotted a small airplane flying low over the park. And he was afraid it was a state police plane, so he moved the body so that they could not be seen. And he had said it was a red and white plane. So a few days later, the cops and the detectives go to the airplane base and look at the logbooks and there's a fucking plane flying over that fucking park at the exact moment that was red and white. Whoa. So that's some shit that only he could have known.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right, Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he told on himself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He. He confessed? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He confessed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He confessed?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Okay. But then right after his first meeting with his court appointed attorney, he changes the story and says that he was innocent of all charges, that the investigators had coerced him into confessing, and that they fucking held a gun to his head and made him sign every single one of the. The. The papers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I can see that too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, back then he said. I know. He was so scared that he signed the papers away saying they had fed him the information about the airplane and he wasn't even in the park at the time of the killings. He later said, the police at the park saw me every day and I passed every test they gave me. But the months went by and they wanted a conviction, so they beat me into signing it. I wasn't even. I wasn't ever at the park when it happened. I was done wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for when you raped that girl that time, Chester.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, okay. But. Yeah. Yes. However. Okay, so he's brought to trial in 1961. They seek the death penalty. A year later, they. The jury finds him guilty for one of the murders they only tried him for. Which is weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe they thought they couldn't get him on all three.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it's all the same evidence. You know what I mean? And then they ended up, like, not bringing him up on charges for the rape, too. So this poor girl who was like, you first thought I was fucking lying, and now you're not even gonna fucking try him for this shit?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Poor fucking girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But if he goes down for those, at least something on the other ones, then he's in jail forever. Maybe they had to convince her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, here's the problem with that. So he sentenced to a term of life in prison. And then the jurors get dismissed, and the reporters ask them if they knew that a life sentence in Illinois meant that Wager would be eligible for. For parole in a few years. And it turns out that the min. The. Like, the. The normal life sentence for murder in Illinois was 10 years at the time. What? Yeah. I don't know if it still is. It might still be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And jurors were like, wait, what? The. They were like, we would have sent him away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, that's not saying. Everyone that's going to jail is 70 or something. That doesn't make no sense.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Light.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Light.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Life. A life sentence is in the hardest quotes that have ever been quoted. Life sentence is such. It makes you feel and think a certain thing. It's not true. Seven years. It's like you're eligible for parole immediately, and you just keep fucking. It's. It's not a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A life sentence is not a thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A life sentence is not a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You are foolish.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I am not. Life sentence is like. Like, is. Is a. Is a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, can I just remind you that lawyers listen to this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, all right. I just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Would you want me to text Guy right now?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Text Guy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The idea of a life sentence.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, this is my favorite. We're going.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stop it. Stop making.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're going outside the podcast. It's like we're doing an outside line.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A life sentence. I want to call a friend, a lawyer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm doing it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A life sentence means life sentence. But in actuality, in a majority of states, it really is. It's a sentence, but it's not an actual what's the word?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not going to give you 50 to 75 years. Like. Like it would take up a person's life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. You're not actually going to be in prison for your life. All right, both of you on your phones now. I just want to fucking point out. I mean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I'm just texting. I'm texting the outside.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can I ask you a question?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Says, we're just going to see if guy's even available.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen, what did you find?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I found that it was much more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Complicated than I thought it was. What does it say? I thought life imprisonment was life. No, the first thing was on a message board. It just said. That's a really good question. What is life imprisonment in Illinois? Oh, you didn't get a name? Yeah, I didn't get an answer. Read the whole thing right now it just says that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, well, we know that it changes state to state, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, I also know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But this is Illinois specific.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right, so. So, I mean, the jurors were set, like, do you know that life imprisonment, a life sentence in Illinois means that he'd be eligible for parole in a few years? So that's the thing. You get life in prison and then you're fucking eligible for parole. And in this case in Illinois get parole after 10 years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay, so that's right. Well, I mean, is that what you're about to tell me? He got parole?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Blahbity blah. So they said they would have given the electric chair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Blah, blah, blah. So, okay, let's see. The whole prosecution was based on his confession, which predated Miranda warnings that are required today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow, I didn't realize Miranda warnings were that recent. Yeah, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're based on a guy named Miranda.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like how John Wayne's real name is Priscilla, is it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it isn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, Or Miriam.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's my middle name.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a girl name. What? Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's Jewish. Okay, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so then at some point, so he, from the moment he was in prison, is saying he's fucking innocent and that some woman had a deathbed confession that was never like corroborated. Corroborated. He's maintained his innocence. He's 77 and he is the third longest held inmate in a state prison having served a life sentence since 1961. He's been requesting parole since 1972. It's 14 times that he's been up for parole.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And he's always saying, and if he said that he did it, he probably would have been paroled. Because part of getting paroled is accepting responsibility for your crime, and he fucking refuses to do it. DNA tests were requested, but. So there was fucking hair found in the victim's fists and the blood stains on the coat. They were requested testing in 2004, but the. The items had not been properly preserved and thus no longer had held evidentiary value. Which seems like bullshit, right? Like, you can fucking find it in there somewhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, but it sounds like what they're saying is, like, instead of putting it in a Ziploc bag, they put it in one of those sandwich bags that folds over at the top, where it's like, those don't work for sandwiches. Why are they gonna work for evidence?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I. You know, I look at this case up on Facebook to see if anyone was talking about it as her hometown murder. And one guy whose name I fucking can't remember was like, this is my hometown murder. And these items, the jacket and the fucking branch that had been used to kill them were brought to schools to show children.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, the buckskin jacket comes back. Yeah, the guy worked for the Innocent Project Innocence Project. And he was like, the reason these fucking things couldn't be tested is because one of the fucking investigators had one of the pieces of evidence on his wall trophy. And these got brought, like, his. The guy was like, my mom remembers these being brought into school, and you could, like, touch them and learn about the murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get as many little kid fingerprints on there as you possibly can.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pretty smart if that's a tactic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Because this was back when.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one knew. So it was so recent.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He. Well, as less than a month ago, he was up for parole again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus. How old is this motherfucker?

[Georgia Hardstark]

77. He was up for parole again, and he got denied. And one of the only living jurors left, Nancy Porter, who's 92, said that she now finds the confession implausible because she thought that Weyger, who was unarmed, who was only 5 foot 8, could have been overpowered by the three women, which I think is such bullshit. That's not how fucking crimes work. Like, you intimidate these three quiet women who go along with what you're telling them to do and intimidate them. It doesn't matter how big you are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no, no. That's like. That's like acting like every crime situation is the same and this person is a criminal. He could have lured them to a spot, cracked one of them on the head, scared the shit out of the Other two.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He tied two of them together. So you're overpowering two of them. The other woman's not gonna leave. I mean, it's not like they're gonna fucking ninja him, like, you know, overpower him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's the same thing with the Richard Speck case where he went into. They couldn't understand how he. There was so many women in this room, and he. He kept them all in that room and then took them out one by one and murdered them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's like. Because it's a psychological thing, he scared the shit out of them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He scared them. And he kept saying, probably if you go along with what I'm trying to do, I'll let you go. I'll let you go. And so that, you know, especially back then, when you got to be fucking polite to everyone, you go along with it, hoping you just want this situation to end. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that. Yeah. That's crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Okay, so. So silver lining. So the crime lab is now one of the finest in the state because of the shoddy work from the Star Barak case. And someone said the state crime lab was less equipped than a high school chemistry lab at the time. And this is from Steve Stout, who wrote a book called the Star of Rock Murders. This crime is more important than most because it changed the system of criminal investigation in Illinois. And then I went on Reddit and there was a guy who said there was a guy named. Or a woman named Bedpan3. I know. Like, is she. I don't know what's going on with her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, she's a woman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because she says my. Well, maybe not. She says, my husband and I assumed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, right, right. I mean, not trying to come on everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She says there's huge. Like, there was a bedpan, a bedpan one and a bedpan two. Already taken the other two.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, this is the third best bedpan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, this is a huge. There's a huge number of people from this town in my surrounding area that think he's. He was a scapegoat. Her ex's husband's grandfather was a judge during the time, though not during this trial, and told me that there was no way in hell he did the crime. The bodies, from what I remember reading, had animal slash dog bites that were just left. Unexplained theories include that a business owner who is from another nearby town who had a very. Had very large, well trained dogs was a possibility because he inexplicably immigrated back to his home country right after the murders, leaving his entire Family behind. Another theory is that the women's wealthy Chicago businessmen husbands paid someone to have them killed in the park for various nefarious reasons. The only real consensus is that pretty much no one at the time or years later believed it was Weger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't think it's the husband having them killed because the way they're mutilated and left with their legs open. And if Weger was a rapist and was the rapist that raped that girl, it would be more in line with a person who has. Is a rapist. Has issue with women sexually deviant. Yeah. And basically is escalating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't disagree with the fact that it sounds like if I didn't know any of the suspects, I would think it was at least two people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But who knows? You crack somebody over the head with a stick when you're. And you're with your two. Two friends.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Somebody gets cracked over the head and then you're like. And suddenly there's like some wild man that's like, sit down and I have to tie you up. And I mean, it's over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He probably did it, but. Yeah, he probably did it, but the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is interesting, that whole thing of, like, you can't really base it on what the polygraph says and you can't. And you do have to be suspect. Now, what we know these days of how police interrogations used to go. We've all seen LA Confidential.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a pity that DNA can't figure this one out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's amazing. That's such a good story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Star of Rock Murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also such a creepy name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Star of Rock Murders. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're back. This is one of your stories that I think about all the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Because it was so kind of like the pictures in my mind of where they were when all this was happening. So disturbing. Do you have updates?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, and just three innocent women, you know, going on a little fucking girls trip together to nature, like. Yeah. Which just. I think this one, a lot of people. Because the thing is, a lot of people don't think that the person who was convicted, Chester Weger, did it. And in fact, in 2020, after 60 years in prison, Chester Weger was granted parole and released from prison.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So his lawyers continued to push for new proceedings because they want to prove his innocence of the murders because he's still claiming he was innocent and that the confession was coerced. So then just this last May. May 2025, a mini trial Was set. And it introduced new evidence that was not available decades ago. And some of that evidence is really fascinating is a woman came forward and said that her grandfather on his deathbed. So we have a deathbed confession, another one that he was in the mob and he had people killed before and that he said that he had one regret to his granddaughter. He said that he knew that Chester Weger was innocent. And she claims that her grandfather went on to confide in her that it was registered hits referring to the murders and asked her to help prove, like, on his deathbed, help prove this man's innocence, which is wild. It's not enough. It didn't sway the court that much because that's just kind of, you know, it kind of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's one. One guy's story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And like, why would he tell his teenage daughter that and not other, you know, and not bring the police in or something like that? So that's just like a little interesting bit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But who would have contracted to. To have those women murdered?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the women's husbands were like wealthy businessmen. So to me, that's like a bigger difference than if they were just like working class people. It's like you could see a little bit of something nefarious going on, perhaps a message being sent. And the husbands also, like, had connections in, you know, with politicians and stuff like that, so who knows? It doesn't seem like a mafia hit type of murder, though, right? Yeah, like, they don't do it like that. They don't not bring a weapon to the place where they're gonna kill people, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And I don't know, it just feels like a bad movie that the mafia would have to go out into, like, a park and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I mean, out in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nature like that, it's like. I don't think so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't either. And like, also, they probably would have noticed someone was following them. Why wouldn't they just kill one of the husbands? Or, you know, it's just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, right. Isn't that the thing with the mob? They don't hit family members.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that. The. It doesn't sound very mob, like, to kill three innocent wives of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, they don't do women, children. I really. I thought we had a code of conduct here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It sounds like a brutal kind of opportunity, like, crime of opportunity. So that doesn't mean that this guy did it, but that's what it sounds like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's hard. It. It feels like deathbed confessions have more weight than just normal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Regular life confessions, which Is like, what if they have dementia? What if they are dying? What if morphine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're on when you' like, on your deathbed a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I cannot wait. I can't wait. It's gonna be so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're gonna be like, we can't give her enough. She's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She just asks for more. She just keeps hitting that button.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bottomless pit. Oh, and there's also an HBO documentary about the Starved Rock murders called the Murders at Starved Rock that came out in, I think, 2021. And it tells the whole story. I highly recommend it. All right, well, this is one story that you were, like, on in the beginning when it first started. Like, this was like, one of your, like, I think that you, like, knew something was up. And so this is you. And we had talked about it already, but you are going to cover the story about Sherri Papini.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is when I wanted to be a breaking newscaster.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good luck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So mine this week is worrisome because it's the case that I brought up the week before last, and I didn't really know anything about it, but I just wanted to cite it to you. And it was the Sherry Papini case.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's an amazing thing because I went into such a, like, black hole on the Internet today that I had that thing happen where I was, was reading. It was light outside when I was reading, and the next thing I knew, it was pitch black in my house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Cause you didn't get up to turn any lights on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly. And I hadn't really looked around, so that when I looked up, it was like I was sitting in a pitch black room. It was kind of scary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's really depressed. Honestly, it's like one of my depression triggers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. That's where you let just the light fade away. I jumped up and turned a lamp on. I had dogs. It wasn't too bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But, like, if anyone had come, like, looked through the window and seen what you were looking, like, reading about, they'd be like, what the fuck? I'm not killing this girl. Yeah, she's crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's going to kill me. But here's the. Because the reason that it was hours and hours of reading and all these different websites is because this case has so many levels. And it is crazy. Like, when I first started talking to you about it, I just wanted to kind of be like, it's that crazy case and it's got some twists and turns, but because I didn't really know specifics, I kind of was like, just gave.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I love that. I really don't know. I know that everyone's talking about it. You mentioned it to me. I love that you're filling me in on every. Like, I have nothing. I just want to fucking hear this. I'm excited.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, so I'll give you the. I'll give you the overview. But essentially what we're talking about here, in one way, and this is what people are being so careful about it because there's no proof that it's anything but a woman who has been victimized. And what I really like about that is that there are people who are being so fastidious as to make sure that no one is accusing a victim of a crime of doing anything. That being said, there is insane amounts of evidence that something is wrong with this case.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's really suspicious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's very suspicious. And it's not. It's just interesting. So we will talk about facts and I'll just try to be very clear about what facts are as opposed to hearsay or anything. And just try to remind you every seven minutes that we're talking about a victim and that this isn't, you know, in no way are we trying to like, give an opinion about this. I just find this case to be incredibly fascinating. Okay, so here's what we know. It's a woman named Sherry Papini, who is a 34 year old married mother of two who lives in Redding, California, disappeared while she was jogging on November 2, and she reappeared three weeks later on the side of Highway 5 before dawn on Thanksgiving Day, 150 miles away from where she was taken. She was beaten, she was bloody, and her hands were chained behind her back. Yeah. She told police that she had been kidnapped by two Hispanic women in a van who tortured and starved her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Okay, go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So after she was found, her husband Keith gave interviews to both Good morning America and 2020.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, I. Okay, already. Questions. She said that the entirety of her captive, her being captured was by two Hispanic women.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The entirety of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Let's just go with the facts on, on those interviews. Keith, her husband, said his wife's captors, two Latina women, kept their faces covered, spoke Spanish the majority of the time. They beat her, they broke her nose, they cut her hair, they starved her. He claimed that Sherry had lost 15 of her body weight and that the captors, quote, unquote, branded her, which led to speculation that the kidnapping was part of a sex trafficking operation. So after she was found, a woman saw her again at 4am on the side of the road called 911. She gets taken to the hospital and her injuries include bruises, a broken nose, burns, and starvation. But she was discharged several hours later. She tells police that she was held captive, and she describes the two Latinas as one being old, one being young, one had curly hair, one had straight hair, one had thin eyebrows, one had thick eyebrows. Once she was released from the hospital, she and her family left Reading, the town that she lives in, for an undisclosed location to avoid media attention. And Sherry herself has not been seen by the media since her disappearance shot on Thanksgiving. Yes, since, like, she's basically not been seen by the media at all. So they've seen the pictures of her, which are from her wedding day, which are seven years prior.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So she hasn't given any interviews or hasn't been seen?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, just her husband. So her husband wants on 2020 and good morning America and he told the whole story for her, which makes sense for a victim who is traumatized and needs to be away from everything. It makes perfect sense.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But did he need to do that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, if that's the case and she doesn't want to be and needs to be away from it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, they. And that's what they told people is basically she got out of the hospital and then they left town and told everybody that they are doing it to avoid the. And then he, relatively soon after goes on both two major national television shows.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, do you want to. Okay, I'm gonna hold my comments.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. Yeah, just accrue it and listen because it's interesting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I can't remember.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are actually websites that normally dive right into cases like this, the kind of Nancy Grace style cases who will not entertain anything except for that Sherri Papini is a victim. And anybody saying anything different, that's the. Like, you can't talk about that, which is a stance. I mean, it's just like a way to do it. But of course, Reddit is not like that, because Reddit entertains anything at all times, and you can say what you want. And so there's. Reddit is the place I found a lot of this information. The Shasta county sheriff actually recently came out to say he believes Sherry Papini's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he said that in direct conflict with an earlier statement where the sheriff's office communications officer said they weren't ruling anything out. So no one knows if he said that to fix what somebody that was just basically answering the phone and talking to the Huffington Post said or what. But there hasn't been much Movement. The Shasta County. No, the. No police up there have been warning people. They haven't put out an any kind of APB about these two Latina women. There haven't been warnings to other women about being careful or this is what you need to look for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That says a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically we'll go over it. Like, this is the way they. The timeline problems, essentially.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the day that she went jogging, like the day that her husband Keith realized that she was missing, he was at work and he came home from work and she wasn't there and the kids weren't there. And instead of calling her, he said he. Because sometimes I think the reason is I was confused by this. But basically that sometimes reception is bad up there, which makes sense because it's like way up north of Sacramento that. But he pinged her phone instead with Find my iPhone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then he realizes where the phone is. And it's a mile away from their house. Where? Kind of near where their mailbox is. Which is if you've grown up in the country, it's that thing where like your house is way up here on some weird long, dusty road and your mailboxes are in a long line with a bunch of other people's mailboxes down the road.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You go to your mailbox when you're driving up your driveway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A mile seems far to me, but I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also, this is like I was looking at a map of reading and there's nothing. I mean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, Also the, like the group that neighborhoods, like, put mailboxes together. It has nothing to do with where your house is, kind of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, exactly. Yeah. Because neighbor neighborhoods don't exist there. It's like all these houses just kind of like they're probably ranch style houses spread out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck that, man. So I want neighbors to hear me scream.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Scary at night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he says he called his mother and he. I can't remember. Basically it's just this weird thing of why wouldn't you just call her phone?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he basically he pings her phone, finds it, and it's at the corner of Sunrise Drive and Old Oregon Trail. And when he gets there, he immediately takes a picture of it. It's sitting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Of her phone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of her phone. It's sitting with. You're just gonna keep saying that. I know, I'm sorry. No, no, no, you can't. But I'm just saying there's a lot of that. There's headphones sitting on top of the phone. On top of them, very neatly, it says. And he takes a picture of it. So the police said that it looked staged. They commented on that earlier that said it looked staged. But he didn't touch the phone. He, like, whatever. And a lot of people on these threads were talking about if your significant other was missing in a way that you really felt was real, you would grab that phone and start looking at what are the last calls, texts, anything. All right, so then he files a missing persons report. And in all, in every way, he talks about her. Instead of saying kidnapped or missing, he keeps using the word taken and Liam Neeson style. Okay, so then they put up five days after she goes missing, they put up sherrypipini.com and it's a website.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Five days. I'm sorry, go ahead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just a website about the whole case. Please help us find her. She's missing with her picture and everything else, all the information, what she's wearing and the whole thing. And ten days after that, this letter goes up on that website, and it's from an anonymous donor. And it says. It says, like, I'm an anonymous donor. I'm offering an undisclosed reward for Sherry's immediate release. My middleman is Cameron Gamble, who's an international negotiator who also happens to live in Reading the fuck, right? So this is. I think this is the part now separate from people saying, please protect a victim who has been victimized. Absolutely. But this is the part where everyone's like, this thing stinks to high heave when you go on. There's a really great article that was on the Daily Beast called, like, things you should know about the shady private investigator involved in the Sherry Papini case. And it's amazing because it's all about him and how, like, it's really. There's lots of great information. There's videos that he has on his website, CameronGamble.com.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is he a creep?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's a guy that's trying to like, he has his organization, it's supposedly a nonprofit profit organization called Project Taken. And it's about. Dude, it's about warning women or, like, telling women what to do in case someone tries to kidnap them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So all of these things are, like, just. They just are very suspect. It's just all very. A little bit like a movie and a little bit. I don't think so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Too. Too coincidental.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very coincidental. And also in the best case scenario, what this person did in this anonymous donor that put this letter up on their website was basically Trying to circumvent law enforcement and say, if you have her, I will give you money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just bring her back, no questions asked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly. They don't use that phrase, but it's basically saying, we don't have to deal with the police. Like, if you. You can have the money, just bring her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which pisses the police off so much because if that's actually the case, then other women are in danger and you have not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you can't do it that way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You've just eliminated all the suspects because you're being a fucking asshole.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it just. It doesn't work that way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It doesn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's like somebody making up a new way to do it and then going like, I'm anonymous. I'm anonymous. The amount of money is anonymous. Please use my middleman. Yeah, none of those things, I think, really line up. And then it goes against law enforcement. Okay. So after she's found and the family asks for privacy, several family members grant a Daily Mail interview, which is the British newspaper, I believe. And someone also sells a picture of her kids on Thanksgiving to the Daily Mail. And then, of course, her husband does both interviews.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do they know who sold it or is it like anonymous?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They say family members. There's no one specifically named in her 20. In his 2020 interview, her husband Keith says her signature long blonde hair had been chopped off. But. But she was described as having long hair by the 911 caller. And a lot of people bring up, like, who has signature long blonde signature as to. As compared to what? Like, dude, it's not. She's not like, you know, Gwyneth Paltrow or whatever. It's. She's a mom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And even if it is, it's like, why did the caller describe her as having that. And he said the exact. This guy seems to pick up phrases that sound coerced or not coerced, like rehearsed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rehearsed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also just weird. Like, it's that thing where people get a weird feeling. And that's the thing that, like, I. What we're now talking about that are in direct contention with each other is the weird feeling you have when you think someone's lying versus a victim trying to tell their story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I'm not. Everything I've heard doesn't. Makes the husband sound suspicious. Not her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It sounds like this fucking happened to her. Well, yeah, I don't think. Like, nothing makes me think that this. That she isn't actually a legitimate victim.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically, when he gives these interviews, there's Experts that are experts in, like, whatever reaction or whatever, facial reaction recognition or whatever that say his crying is completely fake. Like, he does these things where he bursts out into tears, but he makes the noises and his eyes get a little bit red, but there's no actual streaming tears.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That whole fucking study is fascinating to me. I love that shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like, micro expressions and stuff like that. Like, the way they know people are lying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's pretty interesting. But I also think that that's interesting because. Because that happens on TV shows a lot where people are supposed to be crying, like in acting. But it's a really hard thing to do to fake cry. It's really hard, even if you mean it and wanna do it. So, like, you can. But we're all used to it where it's like people like, I just really. You know. And you make the noise. You can do the voice and everything, but to get the stuff to come out of your eyes is really hard to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but you can still see it. Like, I have a really hard time crying. And there's moments where I'm like, it's okay to do this thing, but you're trying so hard not to. But you can hear it in the voice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, the key of real crying. I learned this in an acting class one time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is trying not to cry. Because that's the real thing. People do try not to. No one ever wants to really cry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So sitting. And I don't know this man. And who knows what's really happening? None of us know. Again, I'm just gonna keep saying it. None of us know what's really happening. But most of the time, if you're being interviewed and you're talking about something that happened to a person, and also, he'd already gotten his wife back home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she. She hadn't died. And yes, she had been a victim of something terrible. But he was acting like he was sobbing, but he wasn't actually sobbing, which is just not a natural thing for people to. Especially a man, I'm sorry to say. They have less permission to have emotions.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You do a thing where you're like, sorry, give me one second. And you rein it back in. And then you continue to talk. And it's like, just give me a moment. And you think that they're gonna cut it out or something of this. Of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've all seen all of these shows a million times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All of these shows.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what? It's. It's. They talk and then their lip moves in a weird way. And Then the eyes go. And the water is there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And their voice breaks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Their voice breaks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're embarrassed about it, and it's a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very hard thing to fake.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're trying to get a point across and they can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And guess what? Again, all of this theory there. Okay? So in his interview for 2020, he calls people who would doubt Sherry's story subhuman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He doesn't call her attackers anything. What? Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's. He also said when he was on Good Morning America, he said, I understand people want the story, pictures, proof that this was not some sort of hoax plan to get money or fabricate a race war. I do not see a purpose in addressing. Addressing each preposterous lie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You brought up race war initially.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He did. No, no, no. This is him. And that's the thing that everybody was saying of. Just like. Of all those other things. Yes, yes, yes, we get it. You don't have to address every lie. You're right. What. Wait, why are we talking about a race war?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

On Good Morning Fucking America.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They should have vetted the shit out of him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, okay, now we're going back to this idea, which is a real fucking thing that happens in this country. Sex trafficking. It's horrifying. It really happens. It's still kind of mysterious. Nobody really knows what it looks like, what it means. It's very like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody knows who it happens to. And it happens to people that don't. That it's not. It's not invisible. Yeah. Aren't. It's not. Yeah. So we're all like. It never happens because it happens to people who are victims. It happens to begin with.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, that's right. Runaway kids. But the is thing. Thing that. That's true is it usually happens to younger women. This woman is 30. Sorry I said it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

32. 30 people who won't miss the victims or won't be believed when they said that there's a victim or it's a runaway. You know, people who are at risk. At risk. Yeah. And under something. Something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. But the other thing is she. One of her injuries that was reported is that she was burned as if she. It liked. You know, as if she was branded for this sex trafficking. But real sex trafficking is the branding is just a word that they use for. They tattoo them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They don't brand them like cattle because.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They want them to. They want to sell these women. They don't want to ruin their.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, no, that's exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, a. They don't want to ruin their bodies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They don't want to cut their long, beautiful blonde hair. That's a fucking selling point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly. They don't want to beat them up and break their nose. Those are all selling points.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also the idea that someone wouldn't actually know the insider information that tattoos are how you brand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not with a brand like quote branding. It's like branding is a quote.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. So. So we're just adding up polls. We're just mentioning things or the reason people are suspicious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the other. Now we turn to her social media.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She had a wedding blog on which she claimed that she had never lived with a man, but she actually had been married and was divorced in 2007.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So people are citing this as just kind of times before. This isn't. She's been described as a super mom, as the best person in the world, as sweet, you know, all American. There's this picture that's been painted of her by him on the. In these interviews. And so people are just trying to cite other things that maybe would contradict that. Inconsistencies. Exactly. And one of them is that. That this very blatant lie that she was basically trying to make it seem like she'd never been married before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's like, well, why. It's not that. That's a light on your fucking personality that makes it that you should be kidnapped.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. Well, it's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not the 1800s, so you don't. But. But this was long before. Okay, so it's kind of like saying. It's just kind of trying to show a thing, that maybe this is a person who doesn't have a problem throwing up a lie. Yeah, but it could have been put.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Up her or her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is her. This was her wedding block. Okay, but then I will contradict that. Just in fairness to say, Reading is a small town and there could be people that don't like her and are trying to defame her because she is in. In this spotlight and she is in a bad place.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you know what I want to say? Like, I was engaged before Vince and I got married. And at this point in my life, I'm like, he was really just a boyfriend. Like it was. You know, like, you get married and you're like, this was stupid. We were young. It's like it wasn't a real marriage. And you say it wasn't because it doesn't fucking work matter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure does.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That make sense?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. Yeah. Or you just. You get to write whatever you want on your wedding blog. There's plenty of ways to argue the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Other way for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now, there was a blog post written under her maiden name, which is Sherry Graff, on a skinhead website in 2007. And it was a story about her getting jumped by three Latino men and five Latina women and her fighting all of them off. And the whole thing was kind of about, why can't she be proud of being white?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this is where. Now, here's the thing. Her father says that someone else wrote it and is being an imposter and trying to make her look bad. But I feel like the second you start saying the word skinhead heads. And that is part of things. Now, this also is in this, like, northern Central California. This is. This is the area where stuff like this takes place. I mean, this is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There is. There probably is a big. There's a huge Latina community there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's actually reading, apparently, is like 97% white.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So now I read that, though. I mean, that might not be exactly right, because I read that on. In all of these posts that I was reading that might not be exact. There's definitely a big Latina community because most of these are farming communities. And I'm just saying what I'm reading. But this now on Reddit, there are all these people who claim to be from reading and who went to high school with her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically, I won't get into the. Now I realize I probably shouldn't get into the details of these stories because this is straight up slander. This is gossip. There's no way to prove that people went to high school with her. There's no way to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To prove that she wrote that post. Actually, there's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know if there's any way to prove that she wrote that post. They can prove that someone with that name wrote that post at that time, but they can't prove it was her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fingers on the keys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? Exactly. All right. But however it ties these two stories together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. It just is a. Yes, exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This thing with the people that talk about her. No, nobody is being malicious. Most of the people say this doesn't seem right. And here's what I know about this person. But I hope we find out the truth. Nobody is on there, like, in any way. But also, that's a good way to try to seem trustworthy, is to not be malicious. But most of the people said that in high school, she Needed to be the center of attention. And she would sometimes pretend tend to have heart problems if other people are getting too much attention. And so one of the stories was they were camping and a girl had hypothermia. She was stayed in the lake too long and had hypothermia. And as they were rushing her to the hospital, all of a sudden Sherry had heart palpitations. And she now she had a problem too. It was like there's a couple stories like that where it kind of comes out of the blue in a very convenient way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Again, unproven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who knows who these people are that are writing this. It leads up to one that is a fact and one that is that I'm kind of freaked out by.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the disappearance of a girl named Tara Smith. On October 22, 1998, then 16 year old Tara Smith, a high school student in Redding, California left home to go jogging, only never to be seen again. Tara's father believes that a local man who was Tara's romantic interest may have been responsible for her disappearance. He said on the night of her disappearance, she had plans to meet with the then 29 year old martial arts instructor Troy Zink to end their relationship. He was married.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And had a child, if not two children. And he had also served a year in jail for rape.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God, please, I don't have children.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her father found an unmailed letter in her room after she disappeared that prompted his theories about Zink. In the letter she tells him she knows she had made a huge mistake, she never should have gotten involved with him. But this letter was never delivered and rather than give him the letter, we believe she wanted to confront him in person to break it off. Zink told authorities that Tara had asked to meet him near her home and then when they met, demanded $2,000 from him. He refused and she got angry. And then she asked him to drop her off at the corner of Old Alturas Road and old Oregon Trail, no. 8 miles from where Sherri Pipini had been taken.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a long mile. That's a long lot of miles.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He said. He then went to Hang Glider Hill to pray and he returned home at 11.30pm Tara's father went to his house after Tara didn't return. Tara, not Tara. And Tara's father said Zink is an avid four wheeler guy. He knows the back roads. He had five and a half hours to get rid of the evidence. He's been smart enough to keep his Mouth shut. The police have not been able to move ahead with the case. It's heartbreaking and very frustrating. The guy still lives in reading. Almost 20 years have passed and he has gotten more comfortable, changed his name and thinks people have forgotten. But we haven't forgotten. And while he was missing, while she. While Sherry was missing, her husband Keith asked Tara Smith's father Terry for advice. Keith came to me and we spoke for about an hour. The father of the missing girl told the magazine, I just told him to stay strong for kids and not assume law enforcement has the answers and to push them. It was obvious Keith was torn up and I believe he was confident he'd get his wife back. Tara Smith was a schoolmate of Sherri Papini.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, they went to school together?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They went to high school together, the two girls.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Girls, yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The girl that disappeared went to high school with Sherry Papini.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell me more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's basically. It's basically that there's. There's no conclusion to be draw from it except for that it's an exact parallel of the same story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we don't know where they are. Okay. But one could argue that I. I don't have any, any feelings against or for Sherry. I just think that the husband sounds suspicious as fuck. I'm not. I don't. It sounds like she was a fucking victim. But whether it's of the crime that she, that is claimed that she went through or this fucking husband who sounds like a piece of work, I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think that this is one of those kinds of stories that anything could be possible. Like the thing everyone online keeps saying is it's a total gone girl situation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And in that I would say it's that you just don't. We just don't know. But the thing is, to me, it's. What's interesting is law enforcement doesn't seem to be moving overtly forward with any kind of like with anything. Maybe they are and they're just not being like super vocal about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The fact that they haven't warned the community to be on the look out or to be careful or that this thing is happening speaks volumes to me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And okay, so what was I going to say? Yeah. I don't know. The whole thing is just like creepy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's super creepy. And there's a lot. The thing that's interesting is there's a lot of stuff cropping up. Like when I lived in Petaluma, we would hear gossip all the time. About. About polyclass's family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it was. There was always someone that knew an insider that had something to tell, like oh, here's the gossip, here's the insider information and that it's like urban legends where that kind of stuff, people like to talk about it. When. Especially when you don't know what the answer is. Theorizing about this and trying to put it together is very satisfying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here's my thing. Okay, here's the major thing to me, what the thing that sounds more likely is not two Hispanic women kidnapping a much and wife off the fucking street. And solely they're just not doing that. What's the other?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and because also the husband said that she said they had their faces covered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. So how would you know they're Hispanic or have eyebrows that are a certain way?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I mean, we don't know how they recovered. But why would you walk up to two people in a car with their.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Faces covered, the Hispanic women? It just sounds. It's one of those things. Things where it's. It just sounds. It's so insulting to Hispanic women and I don't see it. And then there's this man. It sounds so much more likely that the husband who is trying to get a lot of attention and saying really fucking incriminating weird shit and hiring people who. Who skirt around law enforcement and has something to do with this is so much more likely than two fucking Hispanic women who have no fucking radio reason to kidnap this woman and didn't. There's no ransom. They let her go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's no point. That's why everybody feels like it stinks that there's no point to it. It's not like the idea that she's not saying where she was in the meantime. There are no details about. There's absolutely no detail that she has given the police about where she was. What happened, what like they were saying, somebody was saying what state was she in? Like were her nails cut? You know what, what did her clothes look like? Were they the same clothes that she left in? Like all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What almost sounds more likely to me is that these things happen to this woman. These exact things. She's saying it just was someone else. And they scared her into saying that it was two Hispanic women.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I disagree because the. The list of injuries that she gives. No hospital would let you leave two hours after you arrive. It doesn't make sense because if you have burns, that means you might have infection. You have to get. If you've been starved, that means you are dehydrated. So they have to rehydrate you. They need to put antibiotics into you. And also, you're in shock. You've just had this terrible thing happen to you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're gonna do a rape kit, which takes hours and hours.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? I mean, unless there's no word about that whatsoever. There's absolutely no word about that, but they're not going to. It's. It doesn't make sense that no hospital would let somebody just walk out. Like, look, I'm fine. After the list of like, how sadly she was beaten and injured.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The. The. The victim to me in this. And I. The thing I want to protect is that is the two Hispanic women narrative. I just don't think that's fair to I. Especially with the skinhead tie. It pisses me off that she would. That, that, that. That would be the narrative.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then I'll just remind that the skinhead tie could be some weird red herring just. Just to say it. Who knows what that is? Anyone can write her name, you know, who knows what that was?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's such a. But as you dig into the story, you know, it goes into, like, when I was in that stuff where it's like, oh, people that went to high school with her said she was this, said she was that. But then I'm like, this is gossip.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is all gossip.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is shitty gossip. What would people say about me if, you know, if it was me in the same situation, the shit that people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Say about us would be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It would be upsetting. But to come back around to the parallel story of a girl she went to high school with that actually did disappear. And this is the other thing I will read that someone, Someone did say on Reddit that I actually really liked. Someone said, I actually work with human trafficking victims now. And it really pisses me off that the whole world is freaking out over this one woman. Yet there are thousands of girls that go missing and are sold into sex trafficking every. Every year right here in the US and they aren't even in the news. I really, really hope that they figure all this out and the truth comes out, whatever it is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck, man. A fucking men.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, yeah, shit. If it brings light to the fact that sex trafficking actually does happen, that'll be great. But I feel like there's a lot of people who are like armchair detectives like you and me, who see. Who smell a rat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And go, there's more to the story. And they're not talking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And. And also. Oh, the last thing is they started to go fund me. Somebody Else started to go fund me, and in seven days, they made $40,000 for the family. Huh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Something smells fishy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, and it's in the. It's in his sister's name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This man. This. This dude. Like, I'm not even looking at her. This fucking dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This dude is saying enough himself to be incriminated. Nothing to do with her. She. She might have. She might have been a fucking pawn in his game and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or vice versa or a third choice that we don't know. It's just so fascinating because when these things get pretty presented on the news, I think back to, like, the. I saw this just briefly in passing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was her blonde hair and big smile, and this mother is missing, and everybody's talking about it across the nation. And then it basically is like, okay, here's the story. And then the end.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And everyone's like, well, wait a second. Yeah, we need to make sure that we fucking update as much as we get. As soon as we get information about this, we need to update it, because this is one of those things that you never hear about again. And it's like, oh, well, they all went to fucking prison.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, the international kidnapping expert is that part in the middle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Someone said this on Reddit, but it's like, this is basically a Coen brothers movie. It's like these characters.

[Georgia Hardstark]

John Goodman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it doesn't. It's like somebody coming in and being. Being like, I. I am on behalf of an anonymous donor. Right. I am here to say you can come to me and you don't have to go to the cops. Which. The cops up there must have lost their fucking shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I. I have a degree in international kidnapping things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I am. My major was Liam Nissening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen, that's our new title for. Listen, if anyone gets kidnapped and you need someone to fucking intervene on your behalf, don't go to Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, come right here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen and Georgia, my family, like, we are on this with fucking wild speculation. Personal experiences.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's going to be a lot of. We're mad at you for saying this, that, and the other thing. But I think misspeak this story. I think we've cleared it at every level. But this story is fascinating. You can't deny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's something else going on. It's fascinating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone's a mother. What is fucking wrong with people? Just, like, live your fucking life. I'm sorry. I'm really angry at people. It's just like, can we not have a fucking moment? Like, not being Total pieces of shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can't it just be Christmas?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can't it be fucking See's candy and fucking true crime, fucking playing cards and Elvis and fucking Mimi? Like can we please. Oh, I hate it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The answer that, that you get served up every week is no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no answer is nine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no. Moments.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nine. Well, speaking of moments, anything good happened to you this week?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I always forget. I always forget. Okay, but sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really think it through.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right. Well, I think every week it's going to be nephew for me because family. I know, right? But I have a specific one. We had our family Hanukkah party last night and My nephew who's 1, and my other nephew who's 6, we like. I like made them all play a game together. We all played a game and it was like. Because I didn't want my 6 year old nephew to feel left out and I want my one year old nephew to like have memories of my six year old nephew and like, so I fucking Auntie Georgia like totally killed it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What game?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just scare the baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did the baby like it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Baby loved. Scare the baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, of course.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was great. It was great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it was just like made me, made my heart feel good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I had kind of a magical moment which was I was turning to get onto the 101 freeway and as I passed the mobile gas station which is right on Coanga. There. Right there. Yeah, I think it is. There were three men doing their nightly. What is it? Treasures.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There were three men facing east.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And doing their nightly Islamic prayers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's gorgeous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they were doing it because it was just basically the furthest corner away from the gas pumps that they could be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you have to be at the certain time you have to stop wherever you are and do the prayers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And it was the furthest corner and it was like kind of around the corner. So it wasn't like people could see them or whatever, but they were also doing it in front of the mobile symbol. So it was lit up for me as I turned to look at it, it was lit up in front of that symbol like a movie. It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What a beautiful moment to remind you that there's more than just this traffic and this and driving. And there is at that moment someone is having a spiritual connection with the universe that has nothing to do with your surroundings and their surroundings. Surroundings.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're taking some time out to do that. And also that this is America. Yeah, that, that's what we were supposed to be able to see in America. That that's what you should want to see and that's a great thing to see.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And thank God we live in a city, Los Angeles, that doesn't interfere with that. Yeah, that. That supports that and. And is open is fine with that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Yeah. I felt very, very grateful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's fucking gorgeous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a cool one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I played scare the baby. Meanwhile I'm scaring the shit out of my one year old nephew. If you go to itunes and you can rate, review and subscribe us and it's great. It helps us. But man, thank you guys. Thank you guys. Itunes, my fav. Murder, Instagram, my favorite. I don't know. Just thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you so much. Thanks to Stephen Ray Morris of the Purrcast for audio engineer and good gifts. You guys are amazing. Thank you for listening. Elvis, you want to wait? You want to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, wait. Merry Christmas and happy holidays.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Happy holidays, Elvis. You want a cookie? Want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. Stay sexy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't get murdered by. Okay, we're back. I wonder if there are any updates, Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's nothing but updates. This has been a breaking story for 15 years. It's crazy. And I think it is really one of the last. I think it's the second to last white woman panic story. I mean, I shouldn't say last. It's always the vibe. But that thing, the way it broke on the COVID of People magazine when nothing was corroborated, nothing was factual, and they just ran with this disappearance story that turned out to be this fake. I just think it was kind of like the. It feels like one of the last gasps of that entire. God forbid anything bad happened to a blonde woman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So if you didn't know, spoiler alert. The whole Sherry Papini thing was fake. It took them about four years to crack this case after the disappearance and the return. And what they did was they found a DNA match which basically made everything unravel. They found DNA on Sherry and they then matched it to her ex boyfriend James Reyes, who basically she had faked this entire thing for so she could run off and be with her ex boyfriend in Costa Mesa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let me tell you guys about Costa Mesa. It's like, it's. It's cool. It used to be cool. It's not one of the ones that you would like run away for. It's not a city you would run away from your life for. I'll tell you right now. And they keep in the documentary that they show the outside of the apartment. And it's like you ran away for. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's that kind of thing where, like, when Facebook first came back and everyone started talking to people from high school and it all got real kind of fraught, you know what I mean? It has that vibe of, like, Sharia was way up in Reading.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she was a mother and a wife, and maybe not that much was going on. And then this guy rolls back into town and she's like, I'm giving it all up for Costa Mesa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the thing of, like, be careful what you wear. Wish for sort of, you know, and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also be careful who you accuse. Because of course, the first thing she tells cops is it was two Latino women. One long hair, one short hair, one old, one young. All that shit. That sounds so fake. So anyway, Sherry Papini was charged with making false statements to a federal law enforcement officer and engaging in mail fraud because she got $30,000 from the California Victims Compensation Board. So she was really in that storyline for a little while.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was arrested for all of this. And In September of 2022, she was sentenced to 18 months in prison for all of that. And she had to pay that $300,000 in restitution for the government funds that they expended looking for her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally shit, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then In April of 2022, her husband Keith filed for divorce and got full custody of their son and daughter. She. She got out of prison in August of 2023. She's, I guess, on parole till 2026. And her husband Keith is in a Hulu docu series called Perfect the Mysterious Disappearance of Sherry Papini, where Keith gets to tell his side of the story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, we watched it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah, it was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What'd you think it was?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it was crazy. It was. We were both very. Vince and I were very much like. There was a lot of what the fucks being said.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What the fuck?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know? Like, but why Brain go to that conclusion then? Or why would you then do this next step? It, like, just boggles the mind in a way of, like, for people who aren't this way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did they talk about the thing where she went to high school with a girl who disappeared and there was, like, a lot of parallels to her story and the girl that actually disappeared.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They do. Yes. They told. I forgot about. Yes, they totally talk about that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is so weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Evil.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just kind of gross. Yeah. To so. But again, kind of that thing where it's like. It just is The Perfect Anxiety Insider where it's like, you're doing this on a national stage now. You thought you were just doing a thing to get out of having an affair.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. No. All right, well, we did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've done it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And again, once again, I mean, we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can only say so much about our own episode, and it's other people's opinion that really matters. We just did it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

True. We've done it twice now. Like, we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, we just keep doing it. It's insane. So if we want to rename this one, which we don't, because An Albert Fish production is the best name of all time, but if we did, we.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Could possibly Name it Day 403, which is Steven's Mustache's age.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, the How Dare you podcast, which was just something I said to Steven, and I did say to Steven all the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love that How Dare you podcast is great Defiance Disorder, which you have. And then I think me saying, I do, too me means I don't. I think if. If I actually had it, I would have said to you, I don't. You know what I mean? Because I'd be defying you. But I did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I went along.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely. Yeah, totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, well, thank you guys so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Much for listening, and stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?