Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 50: The Golden Anniversary Episode

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Episode: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 50: The Golden Anniversary Episode
Release Date: June 25, 2025

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Introduction to Rewind and Episode 50

In this milestone 50th episode of Rewind with Karen and Georgia, hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark celebrate half a century of podcasting by revisiting their original Golden Anniversary Episode, which first aired on May 5, 2017. The hosts share laughter and nostalgia as they reflect on the journey of My Favorite Murder and the evolution of their podcast network, Exactly Right.

Karen Kilgariff (02:20): "And today we're gonna recap episode 50 which was originally entitled the Golden Anniversary Episode."

Georgia Hardstark (02:26): "I love that. That means we've been doing rewind for a year."

---

Behind the Scenes: Recording Challenges

Karen and Georgia provide a candid glimpse into the behind-the-scenes moments of the original recording. They humorously discuss the chaos of recording from Georgia's apartment, highlighting the imperfect yet authentic nature of their early podcasting days.

Georgia Hardstark (02:56): "I wish you guys knew what a nightmare it was from when Karen got here in my apartment until we started recording."

Karen Kilgariff (03:02): "I just asked for an eight-minute SOB before we start. Just to get it out."

---

Corrections Corner: Addressing Past Mistakes

The hosts acknowledge and laugh about factual errors made in previous episodes, specifically Karen's mix-up between author Dan Brown and the actual murderer Dan White who killed Harvey Milk. They emphasize the informal and humorous approach they maintain, even when correcting information.

Karen Kilgariff (11:08): "I accidentally stumbled on this email and I can't remember... I just have to correct it... Dan Brown murdered Harvey Milk instead of Dan White."

Georgia Hardstark (12:21): "This is the gossip corner now. Did you know? But did you know?"

---

Deep Dive: The Somerton Man Case

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to revisiting the enigmatic Somerton Man case, also known as "Tamam Shud." Georgia Hardstark provides a detailed recount of the mystery, including recent developments and ongoing investigations.

Georgia Hardstark (30:25): "So this is the Tamman Shud. Oh, yes, the Somerset man."

They discuss the discovery of the unidentified man on Somerton Beach in 1948, the cryptic phrase "Tamam Shud" found in his pocket, and the subsequent theories about his identity and cause of death. Georgia delves into updates from professor Derek Abbott, who has been working on solving the case through DNA analysis and constructing an extensive family tree.

Georgia Hardstark (56:11): "So now they have identified him as Carl Webb, from Melbourne, who came to South Australia to find his ex-wife."

Karen and Georgia express their fascination with the case's unresolved elements, such as the absence of poison despite the autopsy indicating possible poisoning, and the ongoing quest for conclusive answers.

Karen Kilgariff (54:28): "He could have killed himself. He splained himself out one night."

---

Cult Insights: Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and Rajneeshpuram

Karen shares an in-depth narrative about the Rajneeshpuram community established by Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh in Oregon during the early 1980s. She outlines the rise and fall of this controversial commune, touching on their attempts to create a utopian city, conflicts with local authorities, and the eventual criminal activities that led to their downfall.

Karen Kilgariff (61:57): "So they decided they're going to leave India and come to America... to build a utopian city for themselves and 2,000 followers in south-central Oregon."

The hosts compare the Rajneeshpuram story to other cults, highlighting the manipulative tactics used to gain political power and control, including the infamous salmonella poisoning plot aimed at influencing local elections.

Georgia Hardstark (83:57): "So they started infiltrating the local government to get their people in."

They discuss the dramatic events, such as the attempted murder of politician James Khamenei and the eventual arrest and deportation of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. The narrative underscores the complex interplay between spiritual ideology and authoritarian control within the cult.

Georgia Hardstark (95:47): "And then in 1996, it was destroyed by fire and all of the structures were destroyed."

---

Personal Updates and Listener Engagement

Towards the end of the episode, Karen and Georgia share personal milestones and listener interactions. Georgia mentions her excitement about moving into a new apartment and finally having a dishwasher, while Karen discusses her enthusiasm for the detective show Real Detectives, which a listener recommended.

Georgia Hardstark (97:40): "Since I moved, I haven't lived without a dishwasher. It's a luxury."

Karen Kilgariff (98:36): "There's a new season of Real Detectives... Thanks so much for the recommendation."

---

Closing Remarks: Continuing the Journey

Karen and Georgia wrap up the episode by celebrating their 50th installment and committing to continue the Rewind series. They reflect on the growth of their podcasting endeavor and express gratitude to their listeners for their unwavering support.

Karen Kilgariff (105:24): "We're into it now. We're doing it. There's no going back."

Georgia Hardstark (105:34): "Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?"

---

Conclusion

Episode 50 of Rewind with Karen & Georgia serves as both a celebration of My Favorite Murder's enduring legacy and a reflective journey through some of the most intriguing cases the hosts have explored. From unraveling the Somerton Man mystery to dissecting the rise and fall of the Rajneeshpuram cult, Karen and Georgia provide insightful commentary enriched with humor and personal anecdotes. The episode not only honors their past but also sets the stage for future explorations, maintaining the engaging and authentic spirit that resonates with their dedicated audience.

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Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff (03:02): "I just asked for an eight-minute SOB before we start. Just to get it out."
• Georgia Hardstark (11:08): "This is the gossip corner now. Did you know?"
• Karen Kilgariff (30:25): "So this is the Tamman Shud. Oh, yes, the Somerset man."
• Georgia Hardstark (97:40): "Since I moved, I haven't lived without a dishwasher. It's a luxury."
• Georgia Hardstark (105:34): "Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?"

---

Listener Recommendations:

• Real Detectives: A must-watch for true crime enthusiasts, featuring first-person recounts from homicide detectives with realistic reenactments.
• Wild Wild Country: A Netflix documentary that delves into the Rajneeshpuram community, offering extensive footage and interviews.
• Children of the Cult: A documentary addressing the survivor experiences omitted in previous accounts of the Rajneeshpuram story.

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Final Thoughts

Karen and Georgia's ability to blend humor with deep dives into complex true crime cases continues to captivate their audience. Episode 50 not only marks a significant milestone but also reinforces their commitment to uncovering and discussing compelling stories, ensuring that listeners remain both entertained and informed.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right, it is Wednesday and that means only one thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That means we're gonna recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates and insights.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And today we're gonna recap episode 50 which was originally entitled the Golden Anniversary Episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love that. That means we've been doing rewind for a year.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. So this episode came out on 5th 2017.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So let's get into the intro of episode 50. Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you get it out now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you? Oh, they're not supposed to know about your pre show cry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hello everybody. Are we recording?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wish you guys knew what a nightmare it was from when Karen got here in my apartment until we started recording.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just asked for an Eight minute SOB before we start. Just to get it out. Yeah, it's better. Is it for me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is my favorite murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's start over.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's nothing worse than when we do it correctly. I feel like there's. It feels terrible to do it right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, this isn't that kind of podcast. Like, this isn't that. This isn't. There's no second takes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Although I have to say I would love to. If Steven could ever get his act together for a little bit of. Just a little bit of intro music.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we please?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wouldn't it be fun?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just play your theme song out loud in the apartment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Or yes, you could do that. Or if you got a keyboard, throw it over to the bossa nova rhythm, samba setting. Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get us pumped.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get us a little. Just a little, like, talking intro music.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, loud enough that it's over. The crying over Karen sobbing so that, like, I can ignore it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wind the sobbing out slowly and you intro the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that way I don't accidentally introduce a different podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a good idea. Well, I mean. Or whatever comes out. What if we just have it as the whatever comes out allowance?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That reminds me. Oh, what are we going to call our tour?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So we have a tour? Do you name it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

We don't, but I think it'd be funny to have just a bunch of ideas of names and, like, never settle on one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, well, then my first idea is Monsters of Rock. What's your first idea?

[Georgia Hardstark]

The F word. Murder Mystery Tour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great. Then we have to fucking give a cut to someone's dad. Whoever made up that name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're real angry this episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We could also do just. We could call ourselves the Gin Blossoms. All mine are banned jokes. It's not good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should we do, uh, no. Yeah, I guess we don't need one. I mean, we're gonna have a sign behind us, like, at the show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nope. Who's gonna make it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's 1, 2, 3, who's gonna hang it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who's gonna hang it or make it? Steven just raised his hand. Oh, Stephen, we're just gonna. We're gonna keep piling shit on you that you have to fucking do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if we call it Steven's Piles Tour? The Piles of Steven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's that mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just piles of shit he has to do tour.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I get it, I get it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I get it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's called.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like that you immediately lost track of what was happening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Piles. But, like, I thought I was thinking, like Gomer piles. So I was thinking calling Stephen Pyles like Gomer Pyle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if we cancel the tour because this is such a problem and it can't be solved? Cool. How do we call. What if we call it the dry shampoo tour? Because I swear to God, I planned on bathing before, but I didn't. I was doing other stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is a safe place to not bathe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. But I. The amount of dry shampoo I've started depending on lately. Do you use it too?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. And your hair looks full. And it looks like you look like a mod. Like. Yeah, like a mod model model.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ooh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like it's full and bouncy and I fucking love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. It's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm gonna start doing that then. I also think I might need more layers. It's not. We should not be talking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it. I love your hair right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thanks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, so. Oh, you guys loved the year end guy Branham Spectacular episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Thanks for all your positive feedback on that. We're gonna definitely have him back on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't love that it was one of your favorites because. I'm sorry, what have we been doing this fucking 50 episodes?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, look, we get it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, we get it. We get it. You like when there's someone else talking to us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyone else.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Anyone else who has correct information.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look, fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We'll do it then. We'll. Fine, we'll be fucking smart then and we'll do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Watch this. Watch how much you don't enjoy this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna name every state and every Roman numeral right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can kick off a corrections corner by saying, yes, the Sandra Bullock movie is two weeks notice. And yes, I said it was called six weeks notice while claiming to be her number one fan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Two weeks is not enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like six weeks, I feel like, is the legal amount.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry, Six weeks. Like, I'm sorry. Two weeks is like me getting fired from being a secretary. You know what I mean? Like. But six weeks is like when you're a lawyer, like Sandra Bullock was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're a professional. Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was. She was a lawyer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't even know that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very good. I just felt like the movie took so long. It couldn't have been two weeks that she. When she gave.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you really like that movie, like, legitimately?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yes. I'll watch it every time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know you will. But, like, is it like a. You know, it's a bad movie? Watch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nope, it's not a bad movie. Hugh Grant and Sandra Bullock are equal parts. He's the British version. They're the equal person of themselves. They're the mirror reflection of each other. They're like, riffy, yet real. And they're kind of like, mumbly bumbly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But they're playing brother and sister in this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, they're. They're attracted to each other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but they're playing brother and sister.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But they're. Which is the part I like. It's a real Game of Thrones situation, and yet there's a corporate element to it, which I also love.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It just bums me out. Like, I see movies like that, and I'm like, oh, what if you had to fucking live your life by working in an office every fucking day?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, Part. The part that I love in that movie. And there's details like this that always stick out to me. You can tell when either the person that wrote the movie or Sandra Bullock herself. There's a part where she orders Chinese food.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're like, this isn't how.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just not how people like. The idea is that she's going to totally binge on Chinese food, but it's way too much Chinese food. Like, you already get a ton of Chinese food when you just get four or five things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, we know. Here's what you get. You get a poultry, and you get. Maybe get a shrimp. And then you get a noodle or a rice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then maybe some like. Like egg rolls. Because you want a crunchy thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. That's the first thing that you need. But yeah, four. Four things. Entree. And maybe you're going to add the fifth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In this thing, she sits on that phone and she just keeps ordering dishes. And it's like, now I believe that you eaten anything besides, like, an apple and a cup of yogurt, because you've never allowed yourself to have Chinese cheese.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a scene in it. Like, here's how bummed she is. I'm pregnant. Is that what I think?

[Karen Kilgariff]

A little bit. It's. No, but it's just her thing. It's, like, to show that she's so down to earth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's one of those things where it's like. And people tweet this all the time. Like, I ordered Chinese and they brought. And it was just for me. And they brought eight utensils because that's how much I ordered. Like, I'm such a pig. I'm cute. You know? And you're like, fucking shut up. Like, there's that. There's this amazing Instagram that I'm obsessed with. And I don't know exactly what it's called, but it's basically called, you didn't eat that. And it's these photos of models and like actresses that are like opening their mouth and putting a food thing near it and taking a photo of it. But like, you didn't eat that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone knows it's always a carb.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's always like, look how I'm gonna dance with this bowl of spaghetti. But you've never actually had that in your mouth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna dance with this bowl of spaghetti. Oh my God. If you want to take a bath in one food product, what would it be? Because a spaghetti. A bowl of spaghetti sounds great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I think spaghetti and parmesan cheese mixed together, olive oil, and you just slip right into that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dude, that sounds. What is wrong with you? That sounds so nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That sounds so relaxing after giving your six weeks notice. Yeah, you just get into that bathroom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe order some Chinese doordash.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some Chinese postmates it straight into the bathroom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're not. This isn't a commercial, by the way. Oh, no, you didn't slip into a commercial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nope, not at all. Oh, we also need music before the commercials because the commercials are becoming so chatty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not fair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tell. We're not trying to do that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're not. Like, this isn't. You guys know that we don't know anything about like editing and fucking engineering and being sneaky and like talking about states clearly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's the other mistake I made, okay. When we were talking with Guy about legal shit and we were talking about the murder of Harvey Milk, I had to pop pipe up and say. And I think you said something like, yeah, he was murdered by his co worker, another politician. And I said, that's right, Dan Brown. The person that murdered Harvey Monk was Dan White. Dan Brown is the international best selling author of the Da Vinci Code and he absolutely did not kill Harvey Milk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Parents hurting rumors is my favorite new corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the gossip corner now. Did you know? But did you know?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did Guy or Georgia myself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not a correct you Not a beat. Nope. No one even heard it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because here's the thing. We're allowed to say whatever the fuck we want. This is our podcast. If you want a factual podcast, go to what you missed. In fact, you know what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We are on the cutting edge because like this whole thing of like, there is no reality anymore, we've been doing that since last year.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This isn't happening. You know that. I also feel it's funny that you, like, I get fucking everything wrong, but you're the one who has corrections corner, so clearly I'm just like, I don't care.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't care. I don't care.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, if you are. If you are bitch enough to fucking tell me what I got wrong, then that sucks. But I also think it's hilarious to get like, when we get shit wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I do too. There's people, though. I accidentally stumbled on this email and I can't remember. I was trying to find. Do you ever do that thing where you start an email and then you have to go check something else? This happens to me on my phone all the time. I start to write an email and. And then I have to go check and I'm like giving the person I'm writing it to someone else's email and I want to double check to make sure I don't give them the wrong email.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I leave the email. So I hit save draft, but then I can't find it in my drafts holder. It's not there. Then I'm like, did I send that email?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then I'm like, and then what if I go back in? I started again and then resend another email.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So scared I fucking punched my microphone in the face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is something that I actually went through recently. Do you do that? I mean, I have done it once. Once before where now I'm scared to death. It's that idea of, is it in drafts or did you just send it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It saves it itself, so you can just close it here. This is like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But sometimes my phone doesn't quick enough. So it's like it just updated. But it really didn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know what I do, which could be a mistake, is I start to type in their email address in the email I'm writing and it comes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Up, oh, like you're gonna cc them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like you're ccing them. But then don't forget to be like, oh, yeah, that kind. Here's her email. And then you, like, you find it by ccing them. And then you're like, oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That'D be the best. You're. You're talking about a person that you're also giving their email to the person you're talking to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but you shouldn't hire her on anything. But she's a stupid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But anyway, get a hold of her anyway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like she's. But like she's gonna. Everyone on that crew.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, why was I Even citing that example, Mistakes made.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's called my life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What was it? There was a reason. I was saying that. Steven. What was the reason?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen, rewind six weeks. No, I wasn't at. Steven, you're too far back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Put the phone. Put that microphone down. Put the phone down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's just on the phone. What if Stephen's on, like, a payphone in the corner?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stephen, get off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, Jesus. Microphones are going everywhere today. Steven, can you get some better fucking props? One of these props? Well, we're about. I'm moving and so this is about to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'll be like. I'm kind of sad. This is our, like, setup. We need, like, we need a video.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When it's like, March and you have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Full ac, people in, like, in other parts of the country are like, march is cold. Nope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, not here in fucking global warming town where we are going to always.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're going to have an episode live from the pool. I'm going to fucking be living near Nice. We're going to play tennis and record at the same time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. We're going to have. I don't know how to play tennis. We're going to sit on hardwood floor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everything about. I can't. So, yeah, we'll let you know. But we need a photo of like this. If Vince comes home drunk, we'll have him take a photo of us right here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The day that I haven't bathed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You look great. You're out of your GD mind. You had one more corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, it was my. The thing that happened over Christmas. My good story that I didn't tell you the whole thing of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So at my Aunt Jo's house. Now, my family knows that I have a podcast about murder. Many are excited about it, some don't like it, and told me right to my face, which is fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gah, gah, gah, fuck yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But my lovely Aunt Jo said, well, wait. Did you know that Marty had a hand in the arrest of the night stalker? My cousin Martin, the oldest of all the cousins.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who is a San Francisco policeman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our fireman, who was a cop in San Francisco for many years. He's now retired. Was. He had just started. He was, like, just on the force. He was basically a beat cop. And there was a burglary in the marina. And so they went in and while they were looking at the place that had been burgled, they found a set of fingerprints. And so they called the forensic team, whatever it's called. He Told me this story on the phone, actually, because I was texting him of, like, how could you ever have told me this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What in the fucking fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he was like, we never talk. You're the most. You're always in Los Angeles. Stop using me for crime. And then I was like, too bad. Tell me the story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry. You've been boring the whole time I've known you. Now suddenly you're interesting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, this is. These are the. All my cousins are fun, but he tells me. So they find a fingerprint on the windowsill. They call the guy at the team to come and get it, and then that fingerprint leads to the identification of Richard Ramirez. Dude, because. So you know how he started in la, then he went up to San Francisco, then he went back down to la.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So when he was in San Francisco, that fingerprint basically helped identify him. Holy shit. And my cousin Marty was one of the two cops.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They had that technology then where they could, like, send fingerprints to places.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess so. I mean, it was like the late 90s. It was the late 80s. Yeah, I think it was 89.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fax machines were in their prime.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They faxed over the request. Yeah, dude, that's so cool. It was super exciting to me. And I go, why didn't you ever tell me this? And he goes, no one's ever asked me about this. Or, you need to write a book about it. Yeah, that's what I said, But. And the interesting thing he said was that in that break in, Richard Ramirez stole a couple things from this. You know, the marina's, like, super nice part of San Francisco. There was a girl sleeping downstairs, and he didn't know, thank fucking God. And he didn't go downstairs. If he had gone downstairs, she would be dead. And also, those are my favorite stories. I know she never even knew he was there. So she was, like, the luckiest. And also, while Richard Ramirez was in San Francisco, there was my cousin Marty's daughter. Kathleen told me this because she said she's always been scared to pull her car into a garage where you have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To walk out of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, she's like, anytime there's a garage, I immediately, like, turn off the engine, but immediately close the door.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, they have those garages that don't have doors where you have to pull into them and then walk back out the garage door. And those are very scary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very scary. So she's, like, super paranoid of anything similar to that. Because when Richard Ramirez was in San Francisco, there was a woman who got out of her car and he was standing in the front of the garage thing, and he shot her. And the bullet was deflected by her keys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she survived last night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A key chain.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Safe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bye. Bye. Come on, now. Don't. Don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, you don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis just stopped touching me when I said that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Elvis was like, that's the stupidest thing you've ever said. How dare you, Mom. So anyway, that was. That was Christmas night. I got to hear all these stories, and it was. It made me so proud to be a Kilgariff. It was exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm proud of you. Is his last name Kilgariff?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's fucking awesome, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Marty Kilgariff, then my cousin. And then Mike is the sheriff. Sheriff Kilgariff. Sharon Kilkenny. Yeah. That's real.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. My brother was an usher at a movie theater when he was in high school, and so he was Asher the usher.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Asher the Usher. See dreams come true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, everything's fine. Everything's gonna be okay in 2017. Well, my second cousin wrote Pink Cadillac, so. There we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Bruce Springsteen song.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Was it? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pink Cadillac movie. Ludo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. He wrote that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's awesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's in the Bay Area, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's very cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if we're twins?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, thanks for tuning in. This is called Family Victories with Karen and Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is called We're Not Losers. We have Family Or Successful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Someone's Doing something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My favorite murder.com has all. Well, this isn't the end of the show, but no, you know we're about to get into some heavy fucking shit, right? I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. Yeah, so take this information with you. There's a website.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my shirt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have a website.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is there anything. I feel like I just. I should do something where I write stuff down when I think of it throughout the week and then talk to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You about it, like, make a list. Yep, sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Find it out before we get started with the murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Happy 50th episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God, Stephen. Is this it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, this is episode 50.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Thank God for Steven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You mentioned it earlier, and I was like. And then just, like, passed by, and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was like, wait, really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No one? I was like, that can't be right. Yeah. This is episode 50. You're hired. Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't that great?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then the first episode, I think, aired January 15, I found the very first Instagram account or Instagram photo on my Instagram that says, like, hey, Karen. And I started a podcast. You're gonna go Listen to it. I'm gonna post it on the 15th, but that's crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's been almost a full year.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And 50 episodes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, 50 episodes. That means our live show at the Ortheum is gonna be like. It's the 17th. Someone needs to know that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the 20th.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Myfavoritemurder.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, go ahead and visit that website.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. It's our 50th.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't it the 28th or the 24th?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it's Steven. This is why we hired you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is Market Edit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Congratulations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thanks. Congratulations to you, too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like it's not that hard to make 50 podcasts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking kidding me. That's great. I mean, it's great because it's doing well and it's not sad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. God bless America. Who's going first?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, we just. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Am I going first?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, what's the date of the Orpheum show?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the 21st.

[Karen Kilgariff]

None of those guesses were right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know Vince and I recently had to look at the inscription inside of his wedding ring to remember what day we got married on when your anniversary. And we were both wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is. Inscription is smart. That's a good idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Thank God we did that because we were both like the six. I was like, I think it's the four and it was a fifth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So we're awesome. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my gosh. This is when I'm moving out of my apartment. We're back. Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. What's the whole thing with It's a nightmare in the apartment before the show started?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have no idea. Like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause it was all. Maybe you were upset cause you had to move and record.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Maybe it was just a mess. A big mess of boxes and stuff and probably hot. Who the fuck knows?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. But probably hot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah. Packing a move isn't fun, so. Oh, I missed that apartment. I was wondering when we were gonna get to this. The end.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The last episode in this apartment.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. We have a photo of it empty. And this is our 50th episode. That's like a big. I think it's a big deal in the episode and you don't. I still think it's a big deal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

50 is. I guess it's a big deal if you're thinking about human weddings or something like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Can you imagine whispering to us? You're gonna do 500.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're gonna do more than 500.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're gonna do this for the rest of your lives.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are so many corrections corners in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode because we're gonna do my story first. I call it the Somerset man over and over again. It's not the Somerset Man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is a place in California and a place in the uk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that what you were thinking of?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, probably not. Maybe. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just sounds similar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But yeah, I mean, it's me apologizing for calling the Sandra Bullock movie Six week Notice, but I actually said eight weeks notice and the movie is called Two weeks Notice. And whoever made. I think it was Sabrina who made this note. It says while claiming to be her number one fan. So I am the ultimate hypocrite because I don't know the names of her movies. And I still will absolutely try to take credit for being her number one fan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I don't know though, does that. Do both things have to be true? No, like you don't have to know them all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, thanks for letting me off the hook. I feel like the real Bullock heads would be like, get the fuck out of here if you don't even know two weeks notice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, maybe I just have like PTSD from dudes going, what? What songs do the band sing if you. Oh, you really like them. What songs? And I don't know the names of songs. Yeah, because like, you know, people just record it on tape so you don't know the names of the song. It's fine. I'm not looking at the fucking line of the notes like a dork.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not here to prove my fandom to you. Another fan. It can't be done. But then we don't even need to spend time with that correction corner. Cause I immediately say that Dan Brown murdered Harvey Milk instead of Dan White. Which is a horrible thing to say about the man who wrote my favorite book, the Da Vinci Code. Just kidding.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, you love Da Vinci Code and Sandra Bullock. Like those are Karen's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's who I am as a person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ever need her security Questions for passwords?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Da Vinci3549.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, let's do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so now we're going to get into Georgia's story about the Summerton man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, bad news, burglars. Now you can protect your home with SimpliSafe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With SimpliSafe, millions of Americans enjoy greater security and peace of mind every time they arm their system.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Traditional security systems only take action after somebody has already broken in. That's too late.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But with Active guard outdoor protection, SimpliSafe's monitoring agents closely watch your property and stop crimes before they happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The cameras use advanced AI to distinguish between friendly faces, like family and neighbors and potential threats, alerting agents to suspicious individuals before they get close to your home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I get that ping on my phone on my app that tells me when there's someone like on my lawn, I'm such an old lady or like you know, walking up my driveway because I live up off the street and you shouldn't be there if you're not meant to be there. So like if I get the ping that someone's on my lawn and I'm like, I know something's up and I can check it before they even get to the door or break in in the window. It's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it Simply fave to claim 50 off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's simplisafe.com fav there's no safe like simplisafe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. You know that feeling where you don't want to cook ever again for your entire life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you're not interested in cooking, but you are interested in eating dinner, hungryroot has you covered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hungryroot is like having your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped in one. They'll take care of the weekly grocery shopping and recommend groceries and meals tailored just for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When you tell them about your goals and preferences, they fill your cart with personalized recommendations. And those recommendations get smarter as hungryroot learns more about what you did or didn't like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Most of Hungry Root's recipes can be made in just 15 minutes or less.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I got a big old box of Hungry Root groceries. Some of it was to make these really quick, delicious meals. Some of it was already prepared meals, like breakfast. I just need to grab and go. My brain won't work if I can't do that. And then also some really delicious groceries just to have on hand and snack and cook. And, I mean, it really is like having a nutritionist who's your personal shopper and just delivers delicious, gorgeous food to you. It's a really great service.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're gonna love hungryroot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to hungryroot.com mfm and use code.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mfm that's hungryroot.com mfm code mfm to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your Choice. For Life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Life. Hungryroot.com MFM Code MFM Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen, part of your new job that we're hiring you for is that you need to remember who went first last time. Guy. Brandon went first last year, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. No one went first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

New year, new year, fresh start. All right. Rock, paper, scissors.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. One, two, three, hit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

One, two, three, hit. Fuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One, two, three, hit. I got first. All right, first we got scissors, and then I got paper, and she got rock. Just guys, for those. For those watching at home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. For those who have to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, well, this one is like, I didn't want to do this one because I feel like everyone knows. Like, I do this a lot where it's like, well, I've been upset since I was a kid, so I'm like, everyone knows this thing, but people keep asking us to do it, and it's fucking fascinating, and there's information that one doesn't know about. So I'm like, I got into it, and I got really into it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So this is the Tamman Shud. Oh, yes, the Somerset man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have just talked about this, but we haven't gone into detail.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. So there's some really interesting info about it. So I'm gonna get through the beginning and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you solved it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've solved it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, great. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, of course I, in my head, have solved it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know exactly what you have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So on the morning of December 1, 1948, a man's body is found on Somerton beach, which is in Australia. It's near Adelaide, which is, like, fucking, has the best serial killers. The dead man is. Leaned up against a wall. He's on the beach, leaned up against a wall. He's wearing a suit and tie. He's well dressed. There's an unlit cigarette resting on his collar as if he was just, like, about to smoke, and then it fell out of his mouth when he died, you know, so his feet are crossed. There's no signs of struggle or distress. And people walking by had seen him and thought he was just drunk. He was, like, propped up that way. He had no identification on him. What he had on him was an unused rail ticket or a bus ticket, a comb, gum, cigarettes, and a scrap of paper with the phrase Taman Shud. It's hard to find out exactly how to say this. Taman Shud.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Spell it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

T A M A N S U A S H U D. It's. It's. It's not. Okay. It means finished in Persian.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the labels had been clipped from his clothing. So the autopsy doesn't find a cause of death, but notes that he was in his 40s, he had a fit physique, and that they said that he had strong and high calf muscles as if he were a dancer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just like me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, but you can tell those things, supposedly. So they take his railway ticket and they find his suitcase at the train station. And they know it's his because a spool of thread inside the case matches the thread that he had used to repair one of his pockets. And in the suitcase is a shaving kit, clothes, and a coat with stitching that was specific to us tailoring, so they thought he was from the U.S. also, he had Wrigley's Juicy Fruit gum.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's American.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if this whole time this had just been an ad for Wrigley's Juicy Fruit gum? And they're like, you can't tell it apart anymore. And only American men chewed it back then. Australian men didn't. So, okay, so the paper, the Tom And Shud was torn out of a poetry book, Persian poetry book. That was extremely rare. And local librarians identified the phrase as the very last two words. It's the Rubaiyat of Omar Qayyim. It's a book of poems from the 12th century by a Persian poet. And the theme of this book is that one should live their life to the fullest and have no regrets when it ends. Eh Fekiman. And the very last line, it's almost like saying the end was Tamin Shud, which is finished. And for some fucking reason, that was in his pocket. Okay, so a dude comes forward and says that he had actually found this book in the back seat of his car around the same time and around the same place. Like, someone had tossed this book into the backseat of his car and it had those two last words ripped out of it. And in the book that the guy had found were a bunch of lines that were code. It seemed to be code. They didn't make any sense, but they're all capital letters, and the letters all kind of seem like how English words would start. So the theory is that the Somerton man was poisoned. There was no trace of poison found in his system, but the pathologist who performed the autopsy said that his spleen had grown to three times its normal size and that his liver was damaged. And he said, quote, I am convinced the death could not have been natural. And he said the poison I suggested was a barbiturate or a soluble hypnotic, which is sleeping pills. But no foreign substance was found in his body. But most of these barbiturates, like, kind of go away within a couple days. So it seems like he was poisoned, but there was no poison actually found in his body. And then code breakers have tried to solve the code that's in the actual book. And, like, okay, so there's these, like, a bunch of letters, and they think it stands for it's time to move south. It's time to move to South Australia. Moseley street, which is, like, so stupid. And I think that they just made up, like, it sounds ridiculous. The letters are ittmt. And they came up with it that way to mostly see.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, you're just saying it seems like they're just reaching for something that it could mean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, but however, there's also a phone number, an unlisted phone number in the book, and it belongs to a former army nurse who lives on Mosley Street.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, not so stupid.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe. Well, maybe they knew that afterwards and made that up, because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. It's just like, that's all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, because. Is it because it's like the secret code and then all it says is, like, a place. It's like, not even that interesting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Or it's time to move to South Australia. Moseley Street. Why would anyone need to code that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, maybe it doesn't mean what it sounds like it means. Like, maybe it's code within code.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where it's. Yeah. Where it's like, move means something sinister. Okay, so down the street from where he dies is Mosley street, where it's a five minute walk to where the person whose phone number, where she lives, her name is Jo Thompson and she lives on Moseley Street. When the cops go there, she's like, I don't know who he is, but actually I gave that exact book to Lt. Alfred Boxall, who she had served with. So she doesn't know who this person is. There's this fucking rare book of poems that she had given to someone she had served with.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you don't just give a person a book of poems.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, no. They were probably boning, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that's not. You're not like, oh, here's the Rubaiyat. Yeah, see you later, pal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I gave everyone a copy of fucking Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy that I fall in love with. No, no, I don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Poems.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I've done it, but I don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Poems are a big deal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If someone gives you a book of poems, they're into you and it's like a.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a rare book of beautiful poems. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She spent like 40 bucks at a bookstore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For sure. Yeah, yeah. So she's like, I don't know who that is, but that book sounds familiar. I gave it to this dude. And so they. They're like, well, this dude must be the. The Somerset Man. But then he turns up in 49 and he still has his copy of his book and it's intact, so it's not him. But he has a copy of the book. Like, you know him. Okay. So they.

[Karen Kilgariff]

People start. Could he. Sorry, could he just as a cover have gotten a second copy or like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if it was just like, they show a photo of it and it's like duct taped into the fucking last page of the book?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He just, like, just really shitty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's crayon and it's like written in crayon.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is finished, exclamation point.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Totally. Yes. What you're saying. So people started to speculate that Lt. Boxall was working for the military intelligence at the time, and maybe the Somerton man was a Soviet spy and he was poisoned by Boxall or some other agent. So he went to visit this woman who had given this man a copy of the book, and they were all spies. And maybe, you know, it's like. It's really interesting. Okay. But Boxall himself dismisses the quote as, it's quite a melodramatic thesis. Say that in Australian voice. I don't. I can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, it's. I can't. They always sound like everything goes up at the end. No matter what they're saying. They sound like they're kind of excited even when they're. That's why I was listening. I told you I was listening to Casefile over the break when I drove to San Francisco.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, it's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And to listen to somebody very seriously talk about murder but have their own. The intonation go up at the end is so enjoyable to me because it's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like an exclamation mark at the end of every sentence.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It just kind of sounds like everything's all right even though it's murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know what happened over the. I forgot to tell you this. At New Year's Eve, I was at Joe derosa's house, and there was an Australian girl there who was from Adelaide. And I was like, I did the thing of, you guys have great murders. And she was. She wasn't like, yeah, here's one I remember. She was like, oh, I know. She was very sweet. She was very sweet. But Australia has the best murders. Yes, tell me about that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And 1 million of them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So in 2009, speaking of university of Adelaide, Professor Derek Abbott, who's like this dude who's like, the dude, like, who's obsessed with this now, like, nowadays. He's the guy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he's a professor. That'll help.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And he's a professor at University of Adelaide. And he's like, I'm gonna solve this. Which sometimes is bad. Cause you're like tunnel vision. But it's still interesting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Still get into it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Derek Abbott thinks that the key to the code is in the actual book that they found. But the addition that was near on the Somerset man is so rare that they can't find it a copy of that to know if it matches up. You know, when they change chapters and they change wording and they change the translation later. Like we can't find a book that. That's old. Old enough to, like, match up to this book. Which is cool. Like, it could be. I don't know, it could be in there, but it's not in the ones that we can buy. Which I'm like, can you imagine going to a fucking used bookstore and finding that book? And, like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And also, like, how put out an APB of like, does anybody have the rubiat? Look up your grandma's library, Karen. Please send.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, you know the ruby? You know about this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

The ruby. Like, that was amazing that you. I didn't know what it was called. Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, oh. It's all knowledge. That doesn't help me in any way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Except for on your podcast. Oh, hi, I'm sorry. Except for on your career podcast. Where was I? Okay, so the original autopsy report. Guess what? It's lost. They always get lost. The government won't exhume the body, and Abbott's trying really hard to get them to exhume the body for DNA testing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's the problem?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, that they won't do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because they think. They don't think it'll catch a murderer. That's their thing is, like. It's like, if there will be clues to murder, to a murderer, they'll exhume it. But if it's just to figure out some mysterious clue, they won't do it. But.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is like, it's gotta be expensive to exhume a body, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And I understand that they don't want to disturb. It's. That's. There's a whole thing. But, like. Yeah, okay, I see that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can I go on record and say, disturb the shit out of my body if there's some fucking mysterious clue that needs to be solved. Please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I'll dig you up so fast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Claw me out. Call me. I'm gonna have a note taped to my body. I'm not gonna tell you what it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm gonna get you one of those plots where you can just. It's never fully buried. Like, you can just keep bringing the body up on little elevator.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know about how they used to. There were so many. There were so many bodies that got buried that were still alive at a certain point that they started burying people with bells.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that if the bell. There was a bell in the coffin that went up to the surface. Surface. So there. If you were fucking buried alive, you would ding it. But then so many people would start deconing, composing with their finger in the Bell. Because they put it in there and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The gases would move shit and the food.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ding the bell. How creepy would that be to, like, be the night fucking monitor and just be like, ding. A ding, ding, ding. Like, which one's real and which one's not?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now, this was around that time. This is like 1800, 17, 1800s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

About to be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah. Where, like, everything was just so creepy back then. Yeah, everything was creepy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was like night. It was always night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, it was always night. Women always had black lace veils over their faces.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plagues everywhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dead children. Piles of dead children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Like, you expect your kids to die.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'd be like, hey, let's call you Timmy. Who really knows.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna farm you out to this rich couple to be their servant. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye. Ultimately.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Good luck. So dark.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everything sucks. But it's the best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it sucks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I mean? Autopsy airport is lost. Okay. All right, cool. So. So Abbott notices, like, in the photos of the Somerset men, he notices a couple things about him that are strange. One is that his upper ear, like this part right here that I'm pointing at, that you can't see on the podcast, is strangely shaped, and the formation is shared by less than 2% of Caucasians. So the upper lobe of the ear is larger than the lower lobe of the ear, which is rich.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Really less than 2%.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you ever do that thing where, you know, ears are really the identifier of people? Like, when you. You know, when they always have that thing where it's like, is Nicolas Cage a time traveler? Here's a picture of him. Those ears don't match. And you can, like, immediately. If you see and you think, could these two people be the same? Check the ears first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or like, a little, like, a kid corpse that, like, it went missing. And, like, there's the photo of the kid and there's the photo of his body, and they're like, well, his ear doesn't stick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The ear doesn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They look exactly the same.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck, dude, that's cool. Although I know a guy in high school who got fucking taped my ears back surgery. Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Isn't that sad? No, but that was. Not now. They don't do that now. Although I guess they could if they, like, kidnapped a kid and, like, fixed his ears.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I mean. Yeah, you'd have to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's so many possibilities in this life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. I love that. Okay, so he looks at the body, and he is like, here are the ears These are wrong. And also he had a condition in which certain teeth are missing in the front, so that your incisors, your pointy guys, are right next to your two front teeth. Instead of having a buffer. Right. So it's just like fang. And it's. Again, less than 2% of the population have this, and I think it's hereditary. They don't prove anything on their own, but. So. But Derek Abbott examines photos of the. The. Of the son of the woman whose phone number is in the book, who claims to have nothing to do with him. Her fucking kid Robin has those same fucking abnormalities.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Both ear and teeth, both. Shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And in addition to that, guess what he does for a fucking living?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's a ballerina.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you kidding?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm not fucking kidding.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Blown mind. Am I wrong?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What is she doing? Why won't she be honest?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause something went wrong. Because maybe she was a spy and so was he. And he came back around and was like, what's up? I'm here in town. Because he was in town for, like, he came into town like they had bus tickets and the suitcase thing, that showed that he was just fucking visiting. So he came into town for her, if you believe these theories. Yes. So he came into town to confront her or to see her or to fucking threaten her or to fucking blackmail her or whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or to make her a nice dinner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And she was like, I don't want dinner. I'm gonna put poison in your food.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah. Because he was poisoned and could have been her. That's why she's lying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It doesn't come up ever in any webpage that you find. But in my mind, yeah, it could have fucking been.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's in the mix.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's up in that mix. Okay. So his daughter. So her son Robin, who they think is the kid, passes away in 2009, and his daughter Kate is on 60 Minutes in 2013 saying that his grandma had fucking known this dude, the. Some Richard man, and that they both might have been spies. And she had no evidence of that. But she also said that she thought that this guy was her dad's father.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Huh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Like, she. The. The granddaughter believes it the best. Like, I love this part of the story. Maybe I should save it. It's like a really. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For what? Next?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. It's just cute. No, for the end. Because it makes it less sad. Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna save it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So. So they're trying to get Australian government to exhume the body. They won't do it. He looks British in appearance. He's his age. He's in good physical. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is all like, they're saying there's no reason to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, maybe he wasn't murdered. The thing is that the kid was a fucking ballet dancer. And the original autopsy said he had great calves and looked like a fucking ballet dancer, which is like. And those two other fucking things. Come on, please. So let's see. I didn't edit this as well as I should have. Okay. Okay, so they're. They're now trying to test the DNA of the daughter of this woman. I mean, the granddaughter of this woman. But they don't have the DNA of the Somerton man, so. But they think that. That they're related. Okay, so the DNA was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you know anything of him?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know they made a bust of his face? And you can go online and see a really amazing, I think, what an amazing fucking autopsy face photo. This, like, post. Postmortem, like, photo. And to me, I mean. And this is so stupid. I've always thought he looks like my grandfather who was a Eastern European immigrant. Like, I've always thought he looks like that. So maybe he was a spy for fucking Germany in World War II, but who knows? So. Oh. So in the bust they made of him, there's some hairs left, but I don't think they can get the DNA out of it. So that's why they're trying to exhume him. But they test the DNA of the granddaughter and it turns out that she might be related to, like, Thomas Jefferson, which if it is, if he is related, he's from America.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Basically.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So didn't we know that from the Juicy Fruit?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we thought that. But also it's interesting because if they find someone who is related and they have an uncle who disappeared, then we'll fucking know who it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I mean? Which is really cool. They believe she had an affair. They were. Maybe they were spies, maybe they weren't. But the fucking best part of this whole story. So that's what. That's basically what it is. We don't know that. The last news story I can get from this is from October of 2016, and it says they're testing the DNA. And the doctor who seems really fucking cool, named Fitzpatrick, her last name. It's a shit a she, her name is Fitzpatrick, is gonna do a whole thing about it and she never did. And I can't find it. But. So the granddaughter, Kate and Derek Abbott, who's trying to find the DNA. And the story of this. The professor got married.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Had three babies, fell in love. What? How cute is that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if he's just using her? He's not for DNA.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Every night, she's like, I just. I have these dreams of my cheek being swabbed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I just like. No, I just like Q tips.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love plucking your hair, darling. I mean, who hasn't had a boyfriend who wants to pluck your hair? Am I wrong?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everybody's gone through that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And there's always a bowl in the toilet that catches your pee. It's just the thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's standard. That's actually very sweet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, like, he goes to, like. He goes there to, like, fucking find out what's going on. I'm gonna interview the granddaughter, and she's like, here's his information. And I believe it, too. And then they make out, and then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They'Re just, like, in the stacks trying to find the whole files.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How cute is that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God, it's precious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's, like, the best. Like, that's so. You'd read a book about that? And you're like, come on, shut up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, also, because everything else about this case is so frustrating. First of all, are we sure we haven't done this before? Because I feel like all of that was so familiar.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We've talked about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've talked about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I listened to it on Thinking Sideways.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, for sure. That's why I didn't want to do it. Is. It's. This thing happened. Like. Okay, I want to say, like, when Jamie Lee was on the live episode, she did a story that I think is fascinating that I would never do, because I feel like we need to do stories that nobody knows about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I disagree.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. I know. And I agree with that. And when Jamie said she was gonna do it, the audience fucking cheered. And I was like, oh, we can actually do stories that people know about. We're just, like, gonna find it. I know. I totally know. So when I found that out, I was like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then me just saying this right now is, like, convincing you otherwise, basically.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you're correct. Oh, I totally think you're correct.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I mean, me saying it sounds familiar.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I mean, I did JonBenet. Like, I can do this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah, it's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I just. What was the point? Oh, yeah. So we've heard about it. You and I have heard about it. I said to Vince, have you ever heard about this case? And he was like, no, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, also, it's so vague. It's like, so a dead guy is there and he's got these weird items on him, and he may be this and he may be that, but he might just be a dead guy. Dude, that, like, there's you, like, a lot of stuff. A lot of, like, way things have been painted on. Like, he could be a spy and it could be this and it could be that. Could be just a dead guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They didn't find poison in his body.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He could have. Have. He could have killed himself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I mean, he splained himself out one night. Just spleened out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You need to spleen yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You better spleen yourself to me. Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Explain yourself. No, it's one of those stories that I think everyone knows the first three paragraphs of from, like, Snopes or whatever or from fucking Reddit, but the, like, weird details of it and the people like this guy who are still trying to fucking figure it out, who I think are gonna be disappointed when they find out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, also, I think it's the fear. I think the interest is everyone has the fear. What if for some reason you died and no one could figure out who you were?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a sad, weird thing that would be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I think it's cool. Yeah. I think to me, like, it sounds like it's true that he impregnated this woman. He came to confront her somehow. Who knows how he knew her, why she said she didn't know him. Those things are suspicious. Suspicious to me. Whatever happened was a bummer. And he went and killed himself or drank himself to death or some fucking thing and died there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And she. It's just weird that she wouldn't admit to knowing him. Maybe she didn't want scandal of being pregnant. Wedlock. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fascinating. This summer, Summerton, man. What's the actual name of it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

The name of the whole case is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Tom and Shude, but he's being called the what man?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Somerton man, because that's the beach he was found on. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Somerton Beach.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I feel like if I ever did a corrections corner, I'd have a lot of them for next fucking week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, come on over to the corner. We have a great time over here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, welcome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who cares? Okay, we're back. Do you have any case updates for the summer?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I do, and as I said in 2017, there are also corrections. So here we go. In 2018, using the strands of hair that were pulled from the Somerton Man's. Plaster bust, Derek Abbott and Dr. Colleen Fitzpatrick were able to finally extract a DNA sample which is like, so fascinating. By 2022, they had used this sample to painstakingly build out a family tree with more than 4,000 people on it before landing on what they believed is the Somerton man's name, Carl Webb, which they have a fucking name finally. And I guess he goes by Charles. Abbott and Dr. Fitzpatrick theorize that Webb, who was from Melbourne and worked as an electrical engineer, came to South Australia to find his ex wife, Dorothy Jean Robertson, after she fled their home. According to their divorce papers, he was moody, violent, and wrote many poems about death, claiming it was his greatest desire. But there are still many questions, including how he died. It's still unclear if it his death was a suicide, natural causes or foul play. This just sounds like one of the historical fictions that I love to read that like, say what happened? And I love this. It's just fascinating.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's super weird that a person would be judged by the terrible poetry they write in life. That's not fair.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you're a violent man, that's what you get.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's very true. The rest of his history belies something different, but writing bummer poetry doesn't really dictate who you are as a person. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then back in 2021, as Fitzpatrick and Abbott were still building out the family tree, Adelaide authorities exhumed the Somerton Man's body while conducting their own separate investigation into his identity. But it's unclear where the police investigation stands as of May 2025. And in any case, the police released a statement acknowledging their identification with a spokesperson emphasizing that the department was, quote, still actively investigating the Somerton Man. Coronial matter. So some people don't believe it, some people are skeptics. But.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he is identified. They're saying. Yeah, they're saying he's not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I think that maybe they're still investigating his death, but they agree that that's who it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. And then also a minor correction. Professor Derek Abbott did not marry the daughter of Nurse Jo Kate, which I'm so, like, we loved that piece. I think he married Robyn's daughter, Rachel Egan. So there's still romance happening in the Somerton man story, which is exciting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, so we now know who he is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I mean, at least like a years, decades long, mystery is solved. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Satisfying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If that is who he is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, definitely. All right, let's get into Karen's story, one of your famous cult stories, the Bagwang Shree Rajneesh. You know that moment when you're trying to pack the car for a road trip and suddenly it's like a game of emotional Tetris. The cooler won't fit, someone's already cranky and the dog has to sit on your lap. Or you can just skip the stress and get the car that has thought of everything. That's the Ioniq 9. It's Hyundai's first all electric SUV with three rows. Finally, space. Even in an EV, the Ioniq 9 gives you class leading interior space with really smart purposeful tech. It includes seven USB C ports. Excessive? How dare you. No batteries dying halfway through the drive and everyone gets their screen time, even the dog. And because it's Hyundai, it comes with standard safety features like highway driving assist too and Blind spot Collision avoidance assist. So even if your passengers are a little chaotic, your car isn't. The ultra powerful Ioniq 9 rear wheel drive S trim gets an EPA estimated 335 miles on a full charge. Actual range may vary, but that's plenty for your weekly errands, commutes and maybe even an escape or two. And when you need to charge it fast, you can get up to 150 miles in just 15 minutes. When using a 350 kilowatt DC ultra fast charger and CCS adapter, actual charge time may vary. Plus it comes with a 10 year 100,000 mile hybrid electric limited battery warranty. That's real peace of mind. If you've been waiting to go electric but don't want to give up range, space or comfort, the Ioniq 9 is for you. Learn more about the Ioniq 9 at HyundaiUSA.com, call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye Spring is the season to fall in love with your bra.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And honestly, we should all be in relationships that support us as much as Honeylove.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

HoneyLove recently launched their new Cloud Embrace Grace bra, which sold out in days. It's a wireless bra for people who.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love Underwire and Honey Love isn't just about what you wear on top. Their shapewear, tanks and leggings are just as comfy and supportive and they actually stay in place.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Treat yourself to the most comfortable and innovative bras on Earth and save 20 off site wide at honeylove.com mfm Use.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our exclusive link to get 20 off honeylove.com mfm after you purchase, they'll ask.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them we sent you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Experience the new standard in bras with Honey Love Love Goodbye. A sleek professional website makes you look very put together, even when you're wearing sweatpants and eating cereal out of a mug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's where Squarespace comes in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer your services and get paid all in one place.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From consultations to experiences. Showcase your services with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And managing those payments is a breeze. In just a few clicks, you'll be able to accept payments with options like like Klarna, Apple Pay, afterpay, and more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Get discovered faster with Squarespace's built in SEO tools. With meta descriptions and auto generated site maps, you'll rank higher in search results globally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to squarespace.com murder for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's squarespace.com murder code murder goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, do you want to hear mine?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mine's weird this week and this is the one I've been working on for so many weeks and I never, I can never figure out how to put it together. It's like such a long Ted Bunny involved thing. No, no, it's weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and the Rajneesh Purim community that they set up in central Oregon in the early 80s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know some of those words.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, let me walk you through it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God, I'm excited.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And there's not an actual murder. It's attempted murder. But the whole thing is so crazy. And it's a story. It's a new story. I remember standing in front of the TV watching and listening to my parents get super weirded out because essentially what happened was this. So the Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh was born in 1931 as Chandra Mohan Jain, J A I N and he began his career as a philosophy professor in India. And in the 60s, he traveled throughout India as a public speaker. And he was a critic of socialism. He was a critic of Gandhi and institutionalized religions. He often spoke against Jesus, calling him both a sale and a madman. And he transitioned from professor to guru when he noticed there's a lot of money to be made off of unhappy, wealthy Westerners that would come to India searching for spiritual meaning in their lives.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he soon, he built a thriving enterprise with his lectures and group therapies. He was pro materialism.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he was like change. He was the change it up guru. So he was pro material somewhat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just see the meme of him, like sitting on fire and it just change it up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With his big weird eyes. He was pro materialism. He was. I said anti organized religion. And he was an advocate for a more open attitude toward human sexuality.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was. I mean, if he could only see Tumblr today, he would be so proud of the leaps and bounds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To me, that's him saying, you have to fuck me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's exactly right. You know what I mean? Well, he got. He became known as the sex guru in the press, which his argument was, I've written two books on human sexuality and 38 books on meditation, but you call me the sex guru. Because he was all about how Westerners were so puritanical and stuffy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's clearly never fucking watched Bob's burgers and drank a glass of wine, which is sometimes better than sex.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it could be argued, but he was doing things like he was getting his little groups together, and then suddenly the idea was maybe you're. You're so pent up about your sex that maybe people need to have sex in front of me so that we all stop being so pent up about sex. It's basically this whole thing is the study in ultimate power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Get it wrong?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Beautiful words.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the easiest saying to remember because it's the same words at the beginning of the end. And I still got it wrong. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. So also, he had millions of dollars in unpaid taxes, so he had to get the fuck out of India.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How did he have money to begin with?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because he was charging all these people to come and be in his classes and workshops and listen to him giving these speeches, learn how to meditate. Yoga hadn't been a thing yet, so they were learning about. Yoga was like the Secret amazing practice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How cool would it be to for like I have a couple thousand bucks, but to be millions in fucking debt like you are living your best life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hells yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I'm saying?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Cause you're beyond.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. You're not like, you don't live in a fucking hovel.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, not at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want to owe millions.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You will someday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what they did was they decide they're going to leave India and come to America. And so the plan is that he's going to build a utopian city for himself and 2000 of his followers in south central Oregon. Yes, it makes perfect sense to me too. Well, so it's not. South Central Oregon is empty. They were basically three hours east of Salem. East and south of Salem. So they were in this kind of central valley that was super empty. It was just a bunch of ranches. And a lot of the ranches had fallen into disrepair. So it was almost like a desert situation because they had just like over grazed the fields and stuff like that. It was all very brown and kind of shitty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, so they move in and the plan was they were gonna build housing compounds, warehouses and support buildings so that their business enterprises that were once based in India could move to south central Oregon. And they initially applied for a permit to build housing for 90 people. But soon they moved there and the numbers were in the hundreds immediately. And when he arrived, the Bhagwan Shri Rajneesh, he came to America and he was doing a three year silent, I don't know, meditation or whatever. He wasn't talking. And so his voice was a woman named Ma Annan Sheila. Her real name was Sheila Patel. She came from a very wealthy family in India and she was kind of like his right hand man. And so she made the deal to buy the Big Muddy ranch in right outside of Antelope in Oregon. And she was soft spoken and charming and she hosted a dance in the nearby town of Madras where cowboys partied until dawn. She curried favor buying 50 head of cattle from the Wascow county even though the commune was vegetarian. You know, she was like making deals, kissing babies. And she basically closed the deal so that they could build their, their farming commune. But what she didn't know was that Oregon had very strict state zoning laws that really limited how many people and buildings could be erected onto ranch land based on the amount. So as this development grew, they kept having to apply for more building permits. And they kept going to the politicians and saying, oh, we're just a Farming commune. But we need more living quarters for the workers because there's so much abused rangeland that we need more people to help us fix it. And the problem was that they were basically a bunch of rich, like, college educated, well off, kind of like it was pre yuppie. It was early yuppie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was like post hippie pre yuppie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, they were the people. They were the people that eventually became yuppies that were like, oh, we don't have to live on the commune. We can just go to yoga classes. But at that time, they were kind of like. Like they had the hangover from the 60s of like, the. The whole hippie thing had fallen apart. And then the Vietnam War bummed everybody out. And that's why a lot of people went to India in the first place. To be like, what the is life? Like, what is anybody doing?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Suddenly taxes were for them, were fucking nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What do you mean?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, they had Reagan, so taxes for rich were nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they were doing things like, yeah, they had. They were rich. So they would sell their Porsche and send their money to the ranch and then go live there. And they just worked for free. So it was like they were giving all their materialistic stuff. They were like, well, I'm going to help out and that's going to make me feel better spiritually. And then they can kind of escape, like the structured world of taxes and having a job and all that stuff. They're going to put their whole life into this commune with the safety net.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Of knowing that they could fucking leave it at any point if they wanted to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, because their parents still live in a really nice house in like, Marina del Rey or whatever. They all had to wear red, pink, red or maroon clothing. And when they joined up, like, this was the change they would. I can't. There's a word for it. Joining up is not it. But like, they would go through, like, something and then initiation. It's like an initiation. The Bagua Shrirajneesh would put a Mandela around their neck, which is a beaded wooden necklace that would have a big picture of them of him on the. On it. And so they were like all the. So all these people wearing red with these wooden bead necklaces suddenly start showing up in central Oregon. And if you ever been to anywhere like this, or even central California, it's like a little strip of Arkansas right here on the West Coast. Like, it's very farm, it's very Republican, it's very conservative. It's people who live far away from other people they like things their way. And they don't want a bunch of fucking weirdo rich hippies in red clothing coming into their town 30, 40, 80 at a time. And that's exactly what was happening. So it's kind of awesome because. And they were all wearing red, so. And like, with shit in their hair and like. And they weren't. It wasn't a hippie thing. Like, they weren't like, drugged out and like, hey, free peace, love. They were kind of like trying to. Trying to take over a little bit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you see. Did you watch the Leftovers?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I did. Like the first. I'd say the first seven episodes of the first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The people in the white clothing that were like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The smoking cult.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, it sounds like that to me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Which is so creepy where they kind of like, when you see. There's tons of great documentaries about this whole thing and there's great footage, but it's. There is a lot of that. Like. Like, there's a little of the leftover, like, dancing in Golden Gate park, like, ecstatic dancing and group kind of hangouts and stuff. But it's so much more. There's so much more of a business aspect to it. You can tell that they're trying to monetize spirituality.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, the difference between a 70s cult and an 80s cult is so probably so fucking different. Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

For sure. And this one had that thing of, like, they just started showing up in droves and. And freaking locals out badly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And in their weird red clothing. And they were kind of like. Even the one documentary I was watching, the guy who now is probably in his, like, late 60s, 70s, gray hair, like, clearly not in it anymore. But so they were just aggressive. Cause they were just so quick to be like, well, you were racist or you were against our religion, or you were anti. You know, you were xenophobic or whatever. It's like, yeah, maybe. Except for that. If you were starting a commune with 90 people, that's one thing. But basically they ended up having 2,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Followers on this place. And they infiltrated the town.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They infiltrated a town. Antelope and Madras were kind of their two closest towns. And so basically what happened is instead of it being a small commune, it turned into this big thing and they had to keep going to the city and applying for more permits and more permits and saying, we need it for this. We need. Oh, sorry, we didn't realize. And we just need it for. And so the city had to start going, no, like, this is crazy. This land is not zoned for you guys to Start a city, essentially. And at first, they were trying to be. They didn't want to come off as, like, hicks and like, people who are, like, against outsiders. They didn't want to come off bad also. Them coming there, they actually did the thing that they were saying they were building. They built a dam. They brought the water table up. Like, the entire valley that they lived in became bright green. When you see these, it's kind of amazing, these helicopter shots of the area and it's like, bright green. And they have, like. They started organic farming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's like kind of a mass organic farming where somebody in this documentary was saying once they had everything built up and there was like a main street and there was a mall. They had a mall. They had restaurants.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They would give tours to locals. Like, you can come and see what we're doing. We're not like, trying to be hide anything. That in the. Around central Oregon, they'd be like, the only good place to eat. Is it as Rajneeshpuram was the name of the town or what eventually they tried to make into a town. People would go there to eat because it was like, really good organic food. It was kind of like the original farm to table situation. But they were doing it with this. It was a culty version of it, essentially, because they still did, you know. And he also. The Bhagwan Tri. Rajneesh would just come out and sit there, but he wasn't talking. So he wasn't like, preaching or saying anything to anybody. They would like. And sometimes he just wouldn't come out at all. Like, so he. In the. When he first got there, he would make appearances, but then after a while, he just wasn't doing it. And basically there was just a bunch of people, like, manual labor, farming and doing shit for free and dedicating their whole life to, like, building up this. What eventually was becoming a city.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what I was thinking is I bet the locals would be so much more stoked if you are bringing in jobs, but you're not. You're just hiring, you know, everyone who just is a fucking cult member is doing it for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The people it was good for were people that owned backhoes and, like, big, like, caterpillar Earth movers. There was a couple people it was good for, but not. On the whole. On the whole, it was like. And the other problem was, so they wanted these permits, they wanted to keep expanding, and they started being told no. So they started infiltrating the local government so they would Go in and they would demand to see permits or files or papers at the Wasco County Courthouse. And there's two people that work there because it's like a courthouse in the middle of nowhere in this county that doesn't have that many people. And 40 of them would go down and be like, we demand to see it. So it started off very aggressive. And of course, it was already like, you're all wearing red and jumping around, and now you're like, we wanna see this. We wanna do this. Then they have elections and they end up electing a bunch of the Rajneeshis, as they're called, onto the city council or onto the. Whatever, county, whatever it would be, county people, county group. So that they suddenly now are the ones that are. Because they're trying to get their people in so that they get told yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Smart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because what they want to do, they really did want to build a city and they wanted to bring more and more people there. And they're starting to make serious money. And the other reason they said that they had the tours is because they want to make sure parents who, like those rich parents we're talking about, could come and see where their children were and what they were dedicating their life to. There wasn't some secret cult that they could come and shop in the mall and buy a bunch of red clothes if they wanted to, or eat their organic pizza or whatever, and that everything was chill. And then they dance around ecstatically. There'd be discos, there was like a whole thing. And then they'd leave going, I guess it's fine, and keep on giving them the money. And they were making a shit fucking ton of money. Now, the other thing was that the Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh said when he. He went into silence and he put that woman, Maanan Sheila, who was also known as Sheila Silverman because she was from India, but she had married an American here. And she, you know, was an American citizen, I guess Ma an Sheela, who everyone called Sheila. She was in charge. And then he had four other women beneath her and they ran the entire city. And his he, the Bhagawan Sri Rajni, said he wanted a city run by women, and he wanted, like, strong women to be in power. And what would a city look like if women. If it was a matriarchy, basically. So everyone's kind of like, into that idea, because what harm could there be? And they had these women that were the tour guides that when you went there to see the cult your child had Just moved to and started wearing all red clothes. It would be all these beautiful. They called themselves the Twinkies. And they would guide you around and be like, look, here's the mall, and here's this, and I'm really pretty, and we're all great, and we eat lettuce all the time and everything's good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's our fucking tour, the Twinkie tour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's just all. They're trying to make sure people have positive. It's positive PR all the time. The problem is the Jonestown cult and the Jonestown massacre had only happened three years before. So aside from locals being locals and not being that into a bunch of hippie weirdos coming into their town, everybody. The press, everybody was scared of anything like that happening in America.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it was close to San Francisco, where Jonestown started, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I mean, it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was relatively. Not really like a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A plane flight away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A long car ride away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But still. But yes, closer than other places. And yes, that's where geography.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You could drive up the five and get there. But yes. I mean, it's that sensitivity of however many people died at Jonestown. 800, something like that. Hundreds of. They're not gonna just let a bunch of people get super into this one religion and starting a city about it, because it's also that thing of the separation of church and state and that idea of what's actually behind this. The other thing, too, was that they were making so much money that the Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh. One of his favorite things was Rolls Royces. And so by 1984, he had the large, largest private collection of Rolls Royces in America. He had 94 holy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that was his pro materialism thing. It didn't seem like other people got to be very materialistic, though, because I don't think they were getting paid to, like, run those backhoes and, like, run entire huge lettuce farms or whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You don't buy 94 royals rices with lettuce farms.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no. There's some serious cash getting stacked that he gets to spend. So his thing was. Because the relationship between the citizens of Central Oregon and the Rajneeshis was getting heated, let's say he no longer was making appearances. So what he would do was get into one of his many Rolls Royces and drive. And so he would just drive down the road and Rajneeshis would line up in their weird clothes, and they would jump and stand and clap and sing and whatever, and he would drive by and wave to them shut and drive with no hands. He would do his hands in prayer hands and then bow to them as he was driving down the thing. And that was the really famous, like, that's what I remember as like, you know, a 12 year old or whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Video of this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh yeah, you can watch all this on YouTube. Oh shit. It's pretty amazing. And they showed it on the news all the time. Cause it was this thing that was like, oh, this is an interesting starting up up in central Oregon. And then I was like, hey, have you seen this lately? Well, then after a while, their side of things say that they tried to have a festival. And the local authorities said, you can't have a festival unless you have a security force. And so they started walking around with Uzis. So when he would go to do his drive, there would be two dudes with like all the red clothes, but then with like berets to the side carrying Uzis as they were.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Berets are fucking always bad in a car.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Berets are not a good sign.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. So, so they basically have their own security force. And it was serious enough where they got trained at the state police academy. They went off and got trained as a security force and came back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They feel better though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, yeah, they call themselves a, A peace force.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because you need Uzis when you are a fucking peace force.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, now the other thing is they were getting threatened lot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of course, you know, a lot of letters, a lot of phone calls. And they owned a hotel in Portland that got bombed, that got firebombed. So once the fire bombing started happening, there was more and more guns that and like the, the security force thing kind of came up more and more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did anyone die in that? Because I wonder if they judged themselves to like, be like to get sympathy or like get a reason to get those guns.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, they actually would use the name negative press when they, when they would like something like that. Anything where it showed that the locals or people of Oregon were like, after that, because there were protesters that would be on the city that would be like, get the hell out of town. Yeah, they would take that footage and send it to the other. I want to say ashrams, but I don't know if that's the right word. Their other hangouts around the country and around the world.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sex, sex, sex, sex. I wonder if those.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They would send that footage so that. And then go, look how we're being attacked. And they would send them money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I wonder if those protesters Were fucking ashram dudes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, Even I like it. Like, so they're just propaganda. Yeah, could be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I believe in that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I think that people were super.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, get the fuck out of here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, what are you guys doing?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. But here's where they went wrong. They. There was a big important vote coming up, so they started busing in in homeless people from all around the country to come and live at the Rajneesh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Puram in the city.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were saying that they were doing it for this, their spiritual life, and because they wanted them to. But these were all just homeless people that they were finding on the streets. And these people would get there and they'd be given clothes. They'd be given three hots and a cot and be like, hey, you can go. You can go work on the lettuce farm and have something to do. And it's sad. There's guys that talk to the cameras and be like, yeah, there's nothing for me out there. I might as well be here and actually have something to do, and I don't have to worry about getting stabbed on the street. So they end up busing in 4,000 homeless people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that in the next Wasco county election, they basically start to take over politics.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And what ends up happening is the people that were in place, the people that were already the county supervisors or whatever they are, did this thing where when everybody showed up to vote that day, they said, if you are newly registered to vote, we're putting a ban on your vote and we're taking this to court.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's not how that works.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, but you can, I guess there's some circumstance. They were pulling out an old law or whatever of saying you can vote, but you have to first go to this trial and, like, be at a hearing to prove that you're here to vote, that you're really a citizen of this city. Because they knew exactly what they were doing. And so then they tried to turn it into this woman, Sheila, tried to be like, I'm voting for you. This is because a lot of these people were like, Vietnam vet homeless people. I mean, they were the people that, like, had been screwed over truly by society. And so conceptually, it was a really nice idea. But. But once that happened, and, of course, nobody was gonna go to the hearing. Nobody was gonna go sit there and talk to a judge about how, yes, they were here and they were really a citizen and blah, blah, blah. So so few of them went that. And, like, 95% of the locals showed up to Vote. Highest voting turnout ever for the actual locals. That none of the Rajneeshis won anything. And it went completely in favor of the locals.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oops.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Well, then they just dump all these homeless guys. Most of them went to. To Portland, but they just. They just sent them out of town.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And dumped them in just like close by, in like, no local places of like, well, here you go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Didn't work by.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And that's when it all started to fall apart. Where it was like, yeah, all of this, like, you could say that you're doing this for the spirituality. That would be a beautiful thing if there's a place for people to go who are homeless, who are on the streets and have nowhere to go. But this is clearly not a charity or anything. You're not gonna let these people come here and stay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You were clearly using them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that sucks. And yeah, once that vote didn't turn out the way they wanted it to, it all got exposed. The other thing that happened was that they went to check on the housing the local sheriff went to check on the housing for, because there was kind of like a tent city. They didn't have enough, like building housing for them because there's so many, but they did have tent, like, tent housing that they used during their festivals. And so the sheriff was going up there to make sure that there was like, proper housing for that many people. And when they got up there, there was like a huge caterpillar earth mover that was blocking the entire road. And the sheriff had to basically turn around and go back to town.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So they were like an actual caterpillar. And I got so excited. James and the giant.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, but a caterpillar that huge, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great. Go on. Sorry, that's upsetting. I know. How cute would that be?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It would be all, like, furry. So anyway, they basically are like, we gotta call in higher ups. This is crazy. And something's really happening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So sorry, I have to get to my page. So they have official from around the county go and visit and be like, what the hell is going on? And while they were there, I'm trying to find the name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you. While you're looking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine? So the governor of. Was it the governor of San Francisco who went to Jonestown to check on everyone?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I don't think he was the governor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, he was a big wig.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he shows up to check on his citizens who had moved to Jonestown and he ends up getting shot and killed by. Which triggered and started off the Jonestown massacre.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine? And that was three years before those fucking city officials being like, we're looking into this shit. How terrifying must that be?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And a lot of them talk about it. It's really an interesting thing worth watching because they were so scared at first. They were scared to look like racists and to look like people that were just rejecting people out of hand. But then after a while, they knew that they couldn't. Like, they knew that this had turned into a thing that was beyond just them going in and arresting people. That. That was not possible. And the sheriff, who at the time. I mean, like, now he's aged very well because now he must be, like, in his late 60s. And at the time, he was, like, in his 30s. And he was like. Someone goes, well, are they like, a person from the press goes, are they blocking the road? And he goes, well, I don't know if they're blocking it, but, I mean, it's blocked. So I guess we'll just go like, they're absolutely not trying to be in conflict with these people, but at this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Point, it's like a welfare check.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, exactly. Like, they're trying to say, yeah, we just want to make sure everything is kind of what you're claiming it is. Well, then Sheila shows up, and she's kind of in everybody's face. It's pretty interesting, too, when you see her. She gets interviewed a couple times, and she actually picks up her hand and points into the face of the interviewer or into the camera where it's, like, aggressive. What are you doing? Yeah, like, if this is also chill and spiritual. But you can tell she's like. It turned into, like. Yeah, we. We're like, you're fighting for your commune, but after a while, that's not really what's happening. This is a power move and a power grab. Like, they're trying to take over. They want the state for themselves or they want the area for themselves. Okay. So anyway, I can't find this guy's name. Basically. Basically, the fuck The. Oh, I don't have the name, but it's three county commissioners. So they went to tour the ranch, and while they were there, they were given glasses of water. And when they get home, they become.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Seriously ill. Oh, come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they had been poisoned with salmonella.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But they can't prove that. It, like, they can't prove it. Like, they get very ill, and then they're just kind of out and so that they can't get work. Then it took them a full year to like, tie it all back and get all the proof. Then around central and Southern Oregon, there are reported 751 cases of Salmonella.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shut the fuck up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And people, 45 people were hospitalized. There were no fatalities, but. But all of these people got it, like, one after the other. And it turned out that Rajneeshis were going out to restaurants and sprinkling salmonella onto salad bars and putting it into salad dressing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How do you get salmonella to sprinkle?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In my mind, like you have to wring out a steak into a fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, they had the setup that they had on these farms.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And these ranches. I mean, I don't. I could not tell you, but they figured it out. And I mean, like, they could have had, like, labs or other things on these farms. I'm not sure. All they know is that they were. That these salad bars were poisoned. And the idea was that they were going to keep voters from. It was the idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then, then the last thing that happened, which I think is kind of amazing, is a Rajneeshi named Ma Anand Puja heard that politician James Khamenei was at St. Vincent Hospital. So she went there and the idea was that she was going to inject a deadly mixture into his intravenous tube that would stop his heart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But when she arrived and got into his hospital room, she saw that he didn't have an intravenous hookup, that he was just laying in the bed. So she just panicked and turned around and left. But the plan was, they later found out when they raided the place and got all the secret documents and everything, that the plan was they were going to kill him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So basically this was Sheila's plan to take over Oregon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus. So where is she now?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She fucking fled. She fled to West Germany.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, dear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. Actually, when the cops finally got in, the ultimate plan was they were going to put poison into Oregon's water supply.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And people, they also had all of the rooms bugged at the ranch. And they had, like files on Rajneeshis in the ranch. So they, like, they weren't only going to do harm to outsiders. They also were like keeping people in line and doing weird shit within the ranch. Like there was a lot of crazy shit going on. The Bhagwan Shri Rajneesh, she basically left. He came out and agreed with the. Cooperated with the authorities, told him everything, broke his three year silence, and then basically tried to get onto a plane and. And he tried to flee By Learjet. A plane came in, and it was a big enough place where they could land a plane. And then they got off. There was. The flight plan was that they were going to refuel in Charlotte, North Carolina. And then they were gonna go back, I guess to India. But in Charlotte, they landed and the cops arrested him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they deported him because the whole time he was on a visa that had expired long ago. Then they found her, and she served three years of a sentence before she was deported off of US soil. And the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh died in 1990. The camp was converted into a Christian camp. But.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's legit now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. But then in 1996, it was destroyed by fire and all of the structures were destroyed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Damn it. That'd be so cool to do a live episode from there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Could you imagine? We drive up to that lake. But also just to keep your eyes peeled, because he eventually, before he died, he changed his name to Osho, which is actually a Japanese honorific. And so if you see quotes on the Internet from Osho, it's actually the Baguan tree.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shut the upper.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Just so you know, it's not some wise Japanese sage from long ago.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Does he quote shit on the Internet? What does he do?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you see quotes from Osho all the time. And it's that stuff of like, you know. You know, we are here for a short amount of time. It's all. It's like, shit I've said. I mean, it's just that stuff of like, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he's still practiced. Like, practice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, he's dead. But his, like. Because he changed his name, he doesn't have the mind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cults, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Colts, dude. My fave.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're so good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, that's mine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one died. My apologies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, they tried. They tried and they were.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They really bad at it. They tried hard. Also. The locals tried, too. There was lots of, like, bad bumper stickers that were like gun sights with, you know, it was not a good time. In the early 80s in central Oregon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I heard about that. That's so cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, we're supposed to talk about one thing. That was good. Sweet. Okay, let's tell each other. I think yours is that you bought your niece fucking Doc Martens for Christmas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't do mine for me. Can we get into a fight at the positive part?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, well, then mine is that you bought your fucking niece Doc Martens. Cause that's the coolest thing I've ever heard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In my life. That was a pretty good one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Let's not do it anymore. I mean, we have to think this hard about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just take a second.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, well, let's give up. I don't know. Life is good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was something while we were talking that I thought of and then I'm like, don't sidebar it again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't remember. I wish I should have written it down. We should take notes during the week and we should take notes while we're talking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We should treat this like a fucking thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should we? I mean, it's fucking. It's working pretty fucking well. Oh my God. There's so many things in my life that are good and I just can't remember one of them. I guess that I'm moving into a fucking real apartment. Like a grown up person. We just got an apartment and I'm scared. But it's. It's exciting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's very exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what the thing this week that I'm. That I'm happy about my dish. I'm going to have a dishwasher. What's yours? Oh, fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's fucking Real Detectives. Oh, yeah, that's it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry. No, I was happy for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a new. It's not a new show, actually. It just. The first season is on Netflix, but the second season I think is on regular TV if you DVR it. And someone tweeted us and said, thanks so much for the recommendation of Real Detective. I love it and I'm obsessed with it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're welcome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We never.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're welcome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We didn't give that recommendation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're welcome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's this. Here's why I love it. It's like I survived, but it's first person front from the guy who solved the crime.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like, you love them. You're so in love with them. They're so like low key, manly, but super haunted. Because there's these cases that you're like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The case is really good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God, they're incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And are there like real photo, like crime scene photos?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, there's really good reenactments.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Really good reenactments.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is because they actually. There's actors you recognize that are in these reenactments.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they do it in a way where you're just. It's similar to, I don't know any. Yeah, I think Crime to Remember is the only one that has really good reenactments. It's similar to that, but it's less artistic and more down to business of like, the guy tells you, this is how it was for me, and then you see him do the thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm into actors that I know and not ones that I'm like, oh, God, you're struggling and you got paid $110 for this reenact, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, this is very cool. And also it's because it's from. I just. There's something about a homicide detective that's just like insanely you. It's just pure. They're my Brad Pitt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I get it. I dig it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it's just bold. It's like, what a hard job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a horrible job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Pretty cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God bless them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God bless.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go to my favorite murderer.com for things and stuff and thanks for listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thanks, everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We like you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We sure do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye. Bye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis, you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did that work?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It did.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bye. He's excited about that one. Oh, man, he's been waiting. Okay, we're back from Karen's story. Karen, any updates?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, yes. Here's what's weird. I remember doing this story based on Wild Wild country, the documentary on Netflix.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it hadn't come out yet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It hadn't come out. I did it like a year before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is so crazy. I mean, it's because it was a hometown in that way where the takeover of that town was in the like nightly news in our town. Cause it was Northern California, Oregon. So we were like neighbors. So I guess it doesn't surprise me. It's just this weird kind of 10 years later where I'm like, oh, wait.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Your memory has deceived you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just weird. It's all blending together as like, it's almost like, was I trying to think of a story that hadn't had a documentary done yet or something?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I had never heard of it until you did it. So, I mean, it's wild.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So crazy. Okay, so let's see. Obviously then, this documentary we're talking about, it was a Netflix documentary that came out in 2018 called Wild Wild Country. Definitely watch it if you haven't seen it. It's got unbelievable foot from that time and all the kind of the players. And you can really see what it looks like when basically the east Oregon countryside just gets invaded and taken over by people who at first are like, we're just hippies and we wanna love each other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then they arm the shit out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of AK47s as far as the eye can see. So since the release of that documentary, survivors of childhood rape at the hands of the cult members have begun to come forward, writing articles, posting on social media that the series notably left out their experience.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it was a big part of the victimology, I guess, of what happened at this cult. And it didn't get touched on, probably because it's like, how do you share the. If you're there to tell the story of the main lady that poisoned that salad bar, it's like, there's so many things happening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's the whole story. Yeah. That should be the whole documentary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But we've seen many, many documentaries that include all the bad stuff. Totally. And as dark as it gets, where it's like, why would you be leaving this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's interesting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So a group of these survivors worked together to create the documentary Children of the Cult, which was just released last year. And they basically were making it to fill the gaps left by the Wild Wild country documentary. So those are. You can go see. They call him Osho in that, but it is Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I would like to announce that since this episode or since I moved, I haven't lived without a dishwasher since. Unless it broke, which they do all the time. But, yeah, they do. Having a dishwasher, to me, like, we had one as a kid that literally didn't work a day in my life. So it was like storage.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So having a dishwasher, to me is like luxury. It's pretty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would love to cue the Movin on up theme song to the Jeffersons right now. Cause that. That is really what that time felt like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was like you moved on up into that split level pod loft apartment, and I got myself out of foreclosure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we really. We really were like, yeah, we're gonna do this thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It was like. It was tentative where it's like, okay, something good is happening. It's continuing to happen. So maybe we can take these little steps. Like, I can move out of. We can move out of our rent control department.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, it's gonna be okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I mean? When I thought I would, like, live there forever, it was just those little baby steps that were happening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Dishwashers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So crazy for everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this episode was originally called the golden anniversary episode as our 50th, but we can name it something different if we're naming it today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We have to call it Sheriff Kilgariff. That is the funniest fucking thing I have ever heard in my life. Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sheriff Kilgariff. So funny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I didn't realize this was the episode where you coined your phrase howmever, which is one. Did you say it before?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who knows?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think it's the first time. Maybe I heard about it. Maybe half.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then also we could call it. Come on over to the Corner. The Corner?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, the Corrections corner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Corrections Corner. The place that's cozy. There's no judgment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love that we pretend it's a corner and not the whole goddamn house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not an auditorium.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's every seat in the gigantic theater. That is my favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. And they're all like in. There are no aisle seats. So your knees always hurt? Kind of, you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, thanks for listening to another episode of Rewind. Episode 50 of Rewind. Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

50 of these.

[Georgia Hardstark]

50. We'll keep doing them, I guess, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Might as well. We're into it now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're in. We're doing it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're doing it. We're. No. There's no going back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

None.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, well, thanks you guys for listening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie? You're great at protecting your own personal information. You probably even use things like two factor authentication, strong passwords and a vpn. But as much as you try to be in control of how your information is protected, there are lots of places that also have it. And they might not be as careful as you are. That's why LifeLock monitors millions of data points every second for identity threats. If your identity is stolen, Dolan, a LifeLock US based restoration specialist, will help solve identity theft issues on your behalf, guaranteed or your money back. Plus, all LifeLock plans are backed by the million dollar protection package, meaning LifeLock will reimburse you up to the limits of your plan. If you lose money due to identity theft, you might not be able to control how others handle your personal information, but you can help protect it. With LifeLock, save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code IHEART or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Terms apply.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get this. Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes. Us parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight, you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing and this investment costs less than that. After school treat start prioritizing their financial education and future today with a risk free [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheart the Disney.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plus Hulu Max bundle it's the ultimate bundle for an unbelievable price plan starting at 16.99amonth. Get it and watch Marvel Television's Ironheart on Disney Plus. I want to build something iconic. A new season of the Bear on Hulu. We can make people happy. And the epic A Minecraft movie on Max.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anything you can imagine is possible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Disney Plus Hulu Max bundle plan starting at 16.99amonth. All these and more streaming soon. Terms apply. Visit disney+hulumaxmoimbo.com for details.