Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 52: Bonjour, Internet!

Summary

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 52: Bonjour, Internet!

Podcast Information:

• Title: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
• Hosts: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
• Network: Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 52: Bonjour, Internet!
• Release Date: July 9, 2025

---

1. Introduction to the Rewind Episode

Timestamp: [01:40]

Karen and Georgia kick off the episode by welcoming listeners to their special "Rewind" edition, where they revisit a previous episode with fresh perspectives, new insights, and updated commentary. This particular episode focuses on revisiting episode number 52, titled "Bonjour, Internet," originally released on January 17, 2017.

---

2. Revisiting Episode 52: "Bonjour, Internet"

Timestamp: [02:03] - [04:00]

The hosts express excitement about revisiting this landmark episode, noting it was the first recorded in their new pod loft. They play back snippets of the original intro, reminiscing about the unique musical qualities and the atmosphere of the recording session.

• Karen: "[02:18] Cause we're fucking classy. That's why."

They discuss the technical aspects of the original recording, including the choice of drum settings and the instrumental nature of the intro, highlighting the creative decisions that shaped the episode's ambiance.

• Georgia: "[03:27] Steven, look, we're your mothers and we're really proud of you."

---

3. Personal Life Updates

Timestamp: [14:00] - [17:03]

Karen and Georgia share personal updates, particularly focusing on Karen's new apartment. They describe the excitement of moving into a spacious, modern unit with high ceilings, an open floor plan, and various amenities like a pool and elevator. The move symbolizes a significant milestone in their lives, reflecting the success and growth of their podcast.

• Karen: "[29:00] What a great capper."

They also touch upon Georgia's participation in another show, expressing enthusiasm about collaborative opportunities and the support they've received from their podcast community.

---

4. The Founding of the Amber Alert System

Timestamp: [32:47] - [56:22]

Georgia's Story: Georgia delves into the tragic story of Amber Hagerman, whose abduction and murder led to the creation of the Amber Alert system. She narrates the events of January 17, 1996, when nine-year-old Amber was kidnapped while riding her bike in an abandoned Winn Dixie parking lot in Arlington, Texas.

• Georgia: "[40:53] Amber only has on a sock on her right foot."

A neighbor witnessed the abduction and promptly called the police, but initial efforts were hampered by misconceptions about the whereabouts of the abductor. Four days later, Amber's body was found, leading to an outcry for a more effective public alert system for missing children.

Discussion and Insights: Karen and Georgia discuss the impact of Amber Alerts, highlighting statistics such as the recovery of 800 children directly due to the system as of December 23, 2015.

• Karen: "[55:15] That's huge."

They reflect on the bittersweet legacy of Amber's mother, Donna Williams, who became a child safety advocate, ensuring that Amber's tragic story contributed to preventing future abductions.

• Georgia: "[55:50] What an incredible legacy to have."

The hosts also touch upon related systems like Silver Alerts, emphasizing the broader impact of such initiatives on community safety.

---

5. Luca Magnotta: A Deep Dive into a Disturbing Case

Timestamp: [56:22] - [84:24]

Karen's Story: Karen presents a harrowing recount of Luca Magnotta, a Canadian killer notorious for his gruesome crimes and pursuit of infamy through the internet.

• Karen: "[61:20] We always think the Canadians are so chill, sweet angels with their maple syrup and their flags, but not this specific one..."

She outlines Magnotta's early life, including his brief stint in stripping and low-budget gay porn, followed by criminal activities such as fraud and impersonation. His obsession with fame led him to commit heinous acts, including the infamous "One Boy, Two Kittens" video where he asphyxiates two cats.

• Stephen: "[68:27] And until he was tracked Down. He was just known as the Vacuum Kitten Killer."

Magnotta's descent into violence culminated in the murder and dismemberment of Lin Jun in Montreal, with the media dubbing him the "Butcher of Montreal" and the "Porno Killer" in Germany. Karen highlights his manipulative efforts to fabricate relationships and gain notoriety online, which ultimately led to his capture in a Berlin internet café.

• Karen: "[73:26] And so the guy working there recognizes this man's face who walked in... 'You got him, you're that guy'."

Insights and Reflections: The hosts discuss the psychological aspects of Magnotta's actions, debating whether his pursuit of fame drove his atrocities and the broader implications of internet-fueled notoriety.

• Karen: "[80:46] He's that needy that you."

They also reference the Netflix docu-series "Don't F**k with Cats," which chronicles the cyber sleuths' efforts to track him down, underscoring the intersection of technology and true crime investigations.

• Karen: "[84:09] I recommend it because it's essentially, you get to meet these incredible personalities, the people behind the term cyber sleuth."

---

6. Balancing the Darkness with Positivity

Timestamp: [85:04] - [93:54]

To balance the heavy narratives, Karen and Georgia share uplifting stories from their personal lives. Georgia talks about attending "Golden Girls Live," an enjoyable and nostalgic experience that brought back fond memories and fostered a sense of community.

• Karen: "[86:30] So, like, everyone's doing that."

Stephen introduces "Jacuzzi Cat," recounting a delightful encounter with a friendly cat named Gus in their new apartment's jacuzzi area, adding a touch of warmth and humor to the episode.

• Stephen: "[88:04] There's a fucking giant black cat."

They also discuss funny and heartwarming interactions within their new living space, reinforcing the importance of finding moments of joy amidst challenging topics.

---

7. Final Remarks and Wrap-Up

Timestamp: [93:21] - [95:00]

As the episode concludes, Karen and Georgia encourage listeners to engage with their community through social media, attend live shows, and stay connected with their podcast network. They emphasize the importance of balancing discussions of true crime with personal growth and positive experiences.

• Karen: "[93:34] Buy tickets. If you're in a city where it is not sold out, we'd love to see you..."

The hosts bid farewell with a mix of humor and sincerity, reminding listeners to "stay sexy and don't get murdered," encapsulating the unique blend of true crime and comedy that defines My Favorite Murder.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Karen: "We have to reconnoiter." [04:06]
• Stephen: "Let me pet him with my wet hand." [88:25]
• Karen: "What does feeling safe at home really mean to you?" [57:34]
• Stephen: "I'm in my first podcast loft for the first time." [28:06]
• Karen: "And it's such a bummer, but it's a bummer, but it's a bummer." [74:17]

---

Conclusion

In this "Rewind" episode, Karen and Georgia expertly navigate through revisiting a significant past episode, intertwining it with personal updates and deep dives into impactful true crime stories. Their ability to balance the gravity of topics like the Amber Alert system and the Luca Magnotta case with lighter, personal anecdotes showcases the dynamic and engaging nature of My Favorite Murder. For those who haven't listened, this summary provides a comprehensive overview of the discussions, insights, and emotional undertones that make the podcast a beloved staple in the true crime community.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen]

Shoes are an important part of, well, everything. From first steps to first dates, from.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All nighters to all time personal best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

From building pillow forts to building a.

[Stephen]

Life for all the big and small moments that make up your whole world. DSW is there and and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at brag worthy prices.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At your DSW store or DSW.com did.

[Stephen]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen]

Visit audible.com murder or text murder to 500. Five hundred.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's audible.com murder or text MURDER to 500. Five hundred.

[Stephen]

Goodbye. Goodbye, my favorite. Hello, hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right, it's Wednesday. And that means we're recapping one old episode with all new commentary, updates and of course, emotional insights.

[Stephen]

Gotta have those. Today we're recapping episode number 52, which we named Bonjour Internet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause we're fucking classy. That's why. This episode came out January 17, 2017. So we're doing this show for a year, essentially. And this, interestingly enough, is the first episode ever recorded in the pod loft.

[Stephen]

That's right. That's so exciting. Let's listen to the intro of episode number 52. Steven. Yes. Oh, my God. This feels like poltergeist part four or something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It has a Duran Duran quality to it as well.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Stephen]

Steven, look, we're your mothers and we're really proud of you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was great. Nice. Now, what setting was that on Bossa Nova?

[Stephen]

It's amazing what you can do with that. Yeah, it was. So each time it's been like a different, like, drum setting on the Casio.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The first one was samba.

[Stephen]

I really like that one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I really thought that was beautiful.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Stephen]

It was like haunting you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now, was it a conscious choice to pull your own vocals out and just let it be an instrumental?

[Stephen]

I just wanted to. I don't know. I just wanted something with some glockenspiel in it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want the glock around.

[Stephen]

Yeah, you gotta pull up that Glock every once in a while. That was gorgeous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's really good.

[Stephen]

Karen, do you ever get like, I wrote that song.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I get really pissed. But then I go through all these other emotions.

[Stephen]

Like, hungry, lonely, tired, angry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shut down entirely shut down.

[Stephen]

Yeah. Like, oh, there. What is. There's a dog over there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Distracted. Distracted is the final stage of grief.

[Stephen]

Distracted by dogs is a special.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I love this idea that Steven's reconnoitering the theme song. Because we're probably all a tiny bit 52, right? We've heard a 72 times.

[Stephen]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's. You know, we need a refresher. I like the idea.

[Stephen]

And it's a fun, like. Yeah. Reconnoitering.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have to reconnoiter.

[Stephen]

I've never heard that. Is it Yiddish?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. My Irish grandmother used to say it, but say Yiddish words?

[Stephen]

Yeah. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was fluent in saying Yiddish.

[Stephen]

Words every once in a while.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you know what's funny? I actually just thought of this the other day. Cause we were. Somebody was telling a story about maids. My grandmother was a maid. She came to this country when she was like 17, and she was a maid in San Francisco until she got married, basically.

[Stephen]

So like a maid sing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A maid sing for like 15 years.

[Stephen]

I should have been.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And one of the places that she worked in now it's not gonna be scary, but it's just. She worked for a family that live in Seacliff, which is like the ritziest part of San Francisco, as you might know. It's like nobody knows that it's there.

[Stephen]

I don't know what that is. I live there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what it is? When you're driving over the Golden Gate Bridge to go to San Francisco, the left hand side is the marina and Fisherman's Wharf and all that stuff. The right hand side looks like a forest. But that's actually mansions.

[Stephen]

No, I did not know that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's hidden mansions. And so my grandmother was a maid for a family. Well, she just called them the Jews and she would always say, I think the Jews are not.

[Stephen]

The Jews are real nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I worked for nice Jews. But there was.

[Stephen]

And then you and I came together, and you were like, I think the Jews are nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think she cracked the door open. Of, in my mind, I podcast with.

[Stephen]

A nice Jew Grandma.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think you'd be proud, but that we're still in cahoots with nice Jews.

[Stephen]

And they're still nice Jews.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're still out there.

[Stephen]

What year was that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like the fucking 30s, I think.

[Stephen]

Yeah, yeah, we. They didn't. Nobody liked us back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, nobody liked anybody.

[Stephen]

Nobody liked the Irish.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nope. Everyone fucking. That was back when there were signs that say, don't hire the Irish in every store.

[Stephen]

They thought that the two of us were fucking plague on humanity. And you know what? They can suck it. Am I wrong?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, were they wrong or were they wrong?

[Stephen]

I mean, who's on top now with the podcast?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Me and you, Grandma. Check it out, Grandma.

[Stephen]

Let me show you something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She'd be like, I don't like all the talking.

[Stephen]

You called her vulgar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, she would actually be insanely pissed about the F. The F's. All those F's.

[Stephen]

Oh, the French is what you're saying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She doesn't like when I speak French because she doesn't like the French. Stephen Pullet.

[Stephen]

Stephen, take all that out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Welcome to my favorite murder.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God. What is wrong?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a bad start in terms of the racist issues.

[Stephen]

I'm going to my favorite murder. That Irish person is Karen Kilgerrah, and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That Jewish person is Georgia Yale Hardstark. That's the fastest Jewish name I could think of.

[Stephen]

It's called. It's Georgia Los Angeles City College Dropout. Hardstark would be more accurate. I didn't go to Yale.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I meant the. The Jewish name. Yale.

[Stephen]

Y, A, E, L. Oh, yeah, like Yael.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, is that how you pronounce it?

[Stephen]

Like the gorgeous chick from Orange is the New Black?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Who? Which one?

[Stephen]

That's her name. The one who's like, when me and so and so are gonna get married. Bora Bora. Bora Bora. Yes, she is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her first name's Yael.

[Stephen]

Yael. And she was in an episode of the show called Steven, help me out here, Deadbeat. Okay? It's the show called Deadbeat about a dude who's a drug dealer in Manhattan. And there's a special episode that's like the dog episode, and it makes no sense. It's on hbo, I think. And the people who wrote it were like, this is this episode and sent it to hbo, and they're like, you can't give us any notes on it. Like, they were hard, which, you know, is, like, unheard of. Like, they're just, like, no notes. And it is one of the most gorgeous. Stephen, can you find out what the name of the episode? Like, it's one of the most gorgeous episodes of television.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is this a new TV show called Deadbeat?

[Stephen]

It's newish, yeah. It's first season, but it's kind of a show. The episode is just in the perspective of this dog, and Yael is the dog walker, and you're just gonna fall in love with her. Like, she's. So anyway, what were we talking about? This is a murder. So this is a murder podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's. Yeah, we're in the interim, but it's good to know. It's pronounced Yael.

[Stephen]

That's what I think I could be. Yeah. Wrong about that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, you're asleep.

[Stephen]

I'm asleep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's see. Should we update anything? Well, this just happened on Twitter. As we were, like, in between one. One recording and another, I looked down at my Twitter, and somebody had written, have you heard about the New Hampshire murder castle? You guys have to talk about it. So I immediately send back a message saying, what are you talking about? In all caps. Cause I was like, there's another murder castle. Like, how do I not know about this? And then he wrote back, yeah, H.H. holmes. And I was like, that's Chicago, God damn it. But then he started laughing and was like, oh, my God, you're right. But apparently, HH Holmes is from New Hampshire. He was probably just either flipped it or was at the beginning of the story. He was at the beginning of the book about H.H. holmes.

[Stephen]

That's actually one of the funniest ones that people ask us about. Like, if we know, do we know HH Holmes? And it's like, that one is just like. It's like asking us if you know about Ted Bundy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. We're like, have you ever eaten a McDonald's? It's like, yeah. Yeah, I really do.

[Stephen]

They have an amazing chicken. They're filet o fish.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not to be. You know anything about it except for how do you. The guy built a murder castle. You gotta know if you're even slightly interested in true crime.

[Stephen]

If, like, Leonardo DiCaprio is even thought about as a main character in this movie, which he is. Like, we've probably heard about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would say.

[Stephen]

Who do you think would play Ted Bundy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, Greg Kinnear pops to mind.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Stephen]

Did you come up with that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I did, just now. I've never thought about that before.

[Stephen]

No, I was like, I can't think of anyone that is perfect because he's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kind of got dead eyes and he.

[Stephen]

Kind of is char. Like, he's not hot enough to be like, hot charming. But he's, like, charming enough to be, like, hot. Because he's charming.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You trust that face.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We just have to dye the hair.

[Stephen]

And he could become a little. Like, the eyebrows need to get a little more pointed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. He has to get a little more sinister and probably a little skinnier.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But that guy in like a cable knit sweater who's like, please help me to my Volkswagen that doesn't have a.

[Stephen]

Passenger seat in it. Totally. You're fucking crazy. Drag Kinnear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're getting in there, dude. What do you got?

[Stephen]

The show's called High Maintenance. Well, that was not even close to what I. Deadbeat is the one where the guy's roommate was a ghost. Jesus Christ.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From what?

[Stephen]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've heard of High maintenance. High Maintenance, really good.

[Stephen]

Okay. High Maintenance is what we're trying to say.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Stephen]

And the episode is called Grandpa. And it says when Chase and his sensitive yet fun loving dog, Gatsby move from the suburban Midwest to Queens, culture shock takes its toll. Until they cross paths with Beth, a cute, whimsical dog walker. Yeah. Ale. Yeah. But this episode has nothing to do with the season. It's like the whole show is about this dude, high Maintenance, who sells pot on his bike. And then there's this random dog episode and he's like, the guy's in it, but he's not. The episode isn't about him. And it's just such a gorgeous. Listen, everyone has been fucking commenting and being like, thank you for recommending Fleabag. It was amazing. So fucking trust me right now, please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They do.

[Stephen]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you yelling at me?

[Stephen]

No, I'm yelling at the fucking. And I got that wrong. So wrong. Jesus Christ.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, you know, I bet you like Fleabag. And then Deadbeat almost seems like the beat in between High Maintenance and Fleabag.

[Stephen]

Deadbeat goes right in there. High Maintenance.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just want to know who makes that show that they can go to fucking HBO and say, you don't get to give us nothing.

[Stephen]

I think that they don't care. Like, I think that they're not. I don't know, like, someone I knew who's really cool, who makes documentaries, was friends with them and they don't give a. Who is it? It's a husband and wife team. Ben Sinclair and Katya Bleachfield.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Huh.

[Stephen]

So they're like, you, dude, we're good. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It usually doesn't work that way. No, that's what I'm saying.

[Stephen]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's very cool.

[Stephen]

You'll cry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know who else did that?

[Stephen]

Who?

[Karen Kilgariff]

All of the people who would be, I believe, James Burroughs, Matt Groening, everybody who said they were gonna make the Simpsons. They went to Fox and said, we'll make this, but you don't get to give us notes.

[Stephen]

Like, who were they? All they had done is the Trace. The Elliman show at that point. Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no. James Burroughs. He's like legend, right? Like, they had basically. Yeah. They basically said, we'll make this deal with you and all that, but you just can't.

[Stephen]

They won't do that again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They won't.

[Stephen]

Until my favorite Murder, the comedy TV show that's also a game show, that's what it's called, comes out, and we're like, you can't tell us what to do. And they're like, great, well, we're not giving you a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're like, fine, fine.

[Stephen]

Go ahead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sink your goddamn boat.

[Stephen]

We got a podcast. Oh. You know what I even mentioned is that this is the first fucking episode in my new apartment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. That's what we should be talking about.

[Stephen]

We should start with that and how high these ceilings are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. This is cathedral esque.

[Stephen]

I mean, you'd think that if they were gonna make ceilings this high, they would also not make them fucking popcorn. But I guess I'm not an architect, so I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But however, look, you can take that out. You can scrape it off.

[Stephen]

You know how much that costs? So much money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. I was just trying to make you feel better.

[Stephen]

Thank you. But I don't care. It's fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It looks great. You know, they're so high up you can't see it.

[Stephen]

Okay. Yes. Popcorn ceiling and venetian blinds kill me. But I. Or not. What are they called? What are those called?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, they think those are like horizontal or vertical blinds.

[Stephen]

Vertical. Well, anyways, I hate them, but otherwise, this apartment is amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is a great apartment. Yeah, right? Yeah. And also, you just moved here. You. You're like, you got to get in and get.

[Stephen]

This is the nicest going place I've ever lived in my life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's great. It's really fun. It's got a good open floor plan.

[Stephen]

Yeah. Good Plan when the apocalypse comes, we're on the third floor, so, like, we're safe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The water coming up, the people scratching at the side of the building. You're safe.

[Stephen]

Oh, it's good. All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's good.

[Stephen]

Oh, I forgot to mention this. Last week when it mattered, when it had any fucking. All right, so these two dudes who were into the podcast messaged us and were like, hey, we're super in the podcast. We're writing. We are writers on the show. The real o'. Neills. Will you guys be in an episode? And Karen was like, I have a day job and have a fucking normal life. And I was like, I don't. I'll be on it. And so I went on and was on it, and it's. It's on tonight, which is two days after this is gonna hear me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Two days? Yeah.

[Stephen]

Before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You will be two days after in hearing this.

[Stephen]

But you can watch it online places.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Stephen]

So it's the. It's these fucking sweet angels, Josh Kirby and John Veles, who, like, they wore. So we recorded this thing, and they wore my favorite murder shirts to the fucking recording of this episode. Like, there was a ton of people on set, and they. Every time someone would meet me and I was an extra on. They didn't have to be nice to me. And they were like, she has a podcast. They were so nice and wonderful people. And one of them was fucking Henry Zabrowski's college roommate, which is so insane. Anyways, I'm on it in a fucking dance sequence, and I get my baby stolen. And it's fun. If you want to watch it, check it out. Go watch Georgia the Orpheum this Saturday.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. That should be exciting. The LA Riot Fest Comedy Festival. And we're at the Orpheum Theater.

[Stephen]

Should we put it up next week if it doesn't suck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. That should be the. That should be the bar.

[Stephen]

If we can have a week off, we should try so hard on Saturday so we could have a week off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Actually, yes, let's try really hard, because I need a week off because work is getting insane. Are you about to start filming the week after? Yeah. Oh, God, yeah.

[Stephen]

So you're, like, twisting all the knot. What do they call it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, yeah, we're gonna twist some knobs and we're gonna push some levers up and then pull them back down. All that stuff, which is really hard for me. The stuff I don't like the most.

[Stephen]

I can't even chew gum and chew gum at the Same time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the worst.

[Stephen]

Should we. When should. Like, let's. I was thinking that we could have Guy back on. Guy Brennan back on. Whose show you were.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're currently on. Yeah.

[Stephen]

Right. But what if we, like, have people write it and ask their legal questions that they're curious about, like, what the fuck is this thing? And that thing? Like, you have to write it in that sentence.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then he's like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what those things are.

[Stephen]

Yeah, okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no, no, no. I was just trying to make a joke. I don't know. Yeah, I think. Yeah. If we had something specific and, like, led it through to a certain.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Topic.

[Stephen]

Okay. We should have him back on them, because that was a good episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, he's great. Very good. And then it's like just kind of a fun. It's fun to have. It's third person.

[Stephen]

Yeah. And not tell horrifying murder stories. Hey, speaking of. Hey, is there anything else you want to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But wait, you have a story about your Uber driver. Dude, that's why I need a Ratchet, dude.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God. Let's start over. Let me start with this. Thank you for reminding me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that's why I write things on my list.

[Stephen]

My therapist today, I was like, what do I. What's wrong with my memory? And she was like, well, you're sleep deprived and anxious. Those will fuck with your memory. I'm like, okay, I feel good about it, but now I don't feel good about it. Okay, so we were. I was. I got an Uber to go to our Cracked Podcast live show at ucb, which I think they're going to put up soon, which was so much fucking fun. And crack podcasts, they're like awesome dudes. So on my way there, like, doo, doo, doo. I get picked up. I fucking. First I'm leaving a party and I shame Vince and Joe DeRosa for, like, saying goodbye and, like, leaving me there to wait for an Uber. I don't know why I'm saying that. I'm just shaming them. So I get picked up by this dude who looks like he could murder me, but he ended up being super fucking cool. He looks like. He goes. He looks like he goes outside of Burning Man. You know what I mean? Like, he stays near. Like, he stays near.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So real. Real outsider.

[Stephen]

Yeah. Like, he can't afford tickets and he, like, sells drugs outside of Burning Man. But, like, I feel safest around those people. More than, like, normal people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those are your people. Yeah, sure.

[Stephen]

Those Burning Man Outside people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

So he's like, so what are you going to UCB for? And like chitty chat the way I hate Ubers do. And then I was like, oh, you know, I'm just. I have this podcast. And he was like, what is it about? I'm like, well, murder. And you know, I kind of like slowly got some out of it. And then he was like, oh, hey, what's funny? I grew up a couple doors down from John Wayne Gacy. I was like, wait, what? And I was like, around the time. He's like, uh huh. I went to a party where my friend had him as a clown at our party.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, he was a kid?

[Stephen]

He was a kid. His friend hired John Wayne Gacy to be a clown.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pogo the clown.

[Stephen]

Pogo the clown at his birthday party. And he said that, yeah, he like, John Wayne Gacy would come to their school and watch wrestling matches. And I was like, well, wasn't it weird? And he was like, yeah, everyone knew it was weird that this guy was into it. But he would then bring them back to his house and his wife. And I was like, wait, he had a wife? He's like, yeah, he would bring them down. And then what you've told me before is how he would be like, let's have this wrestling thing. I'm gonna put you in handcuffs. Yeah, he like knew. He knew all that because that happened to people in his town. And his wife would just be like, oh, he brought these kids down with him and they never came back up. Whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's the wife that eventually left him. Cause she just. That kept happening. And she's just like, this is so weird.

[Stephen]

She calling the cops. She was just like, goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She didn't know what was going on down there. It was just kind of like it's.

[Stephen]

Someone with not like knowing what's going on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah, it was the 70s. I think people did that all the time in their marriages. Like, we're gonna go have man time in our man cave downstairs. And she's like, okay, I'm going to bed.

[Stephen]

But with children. Like, if she was suspicious enough to leave him, she should have told the cops of her suspicions.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I. I can't speak to this at all.

[Stephen]

I don't know. Anyways, so, yeah, like on my way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To a shoulda, woulda, coulda.

[Stephen]

You know what I mean? Like, should have not married him to be. You're married a clown. Look, listen, look and listen, look.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Learn the handcuffs alone. Get out of there.

[Stephen]

Yeah, like, no, the going to wrestling matches and Having kids over for wrestling alone. Like, if Vin started doing that, I'd be like, well, this isn't gonna.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This will not stand.

[Stephen]

You're going to prison.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'd be like, one hand on the hip. Hey, listen, mister. Yeah, goodbye, 911. On the other hand. Well, that's awesome. I mean, that's the magic of getting into just anyone's car.

[Stephen]

Try it, everyone. Give it a shot. That's why we have this podcast, get into People's Cars.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was kind of funny, though, because on my way, of course, Georgia got there before me because I was late, and on my way, I was texting like, I'm on my way here, whatever. And then Georgia Techs, my Uber driver, used to live across the street from John Wayne Gacy. And then I was like, you are lying. And I just. All my responses were accusing her of being a liar.

[Stephen]

Like, I make shit up all the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just wouldn't accept it. This is not the truth.

[Stephen]

And I was like, I'm not fucking kidding.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The other thing I was gonna say is. And I wanna say that I was trying to look up the name, but I realized I was being rude to you, so I just put my phone down. But I want to say her name is Marjorie. I don't think that's right, though. But we have a person who listens to our podcast and loves it, and also who comes to mine in April's Improv Lab show every month, which we really appreciate. Cause God knows you don't want an empty room at the Improv Lab. It's a real good time. But anyway, there's a girl that I met there on our first business class, and who was like, love the podcast, blah, blah, blah, and has come, been super supportive. Well, I walked in to the last show we did, and there's like kind of an entrance way at the Improv, where people stand around, smoke and talk or whatever. And she was just sitting at a table with her friends, and just as I walked by, she just held out her hand and handed me three decks of cards. So I stopped and I was like, hey, what's going on? And then I look and they're the cold case cards we were talking about on the podcast. And she got them for us. We all got a pack, and it's. We got two Floridas and a Connecticut, I believe.

[Stephen]

They'Re the cards. Excuse me? They're the cards that the law enforcement would like. Deck of cards, of playing cards that the law enforcement would give to inmates to play cards with. But there would also be Cold cases of, like, murders and all these things on each one, like, explaining them, hoping that one of the people in prison would recognize them or feel, like, impelled. Impelled.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Compelled.

[Stephen]

Thank you. In prison. And compelled. I just made those into one word.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We just combined it to talk, which was a good idea. And when you look at them, it's kind of creepy, but then it's also fascinating. Like, you just want to look at every single card. Sorry. Steven just handed me her name, and it is Miranda.

[Stephen]

Same thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Miranda. What did I say?

[Stephen]

Like, Miranda writes Maribel.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some horrible thing. Miranda, thank you so much for thinking of us and getting the thing that we were so excited to even talk about.

[Stephen]

Yeah, no, it's super cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was basically, this is like the partner item to the murder cards that we were. The baseball cards that we were looking at that Stephen got for us for Christmas.

[Stephen]

I mean, we're just gonna keep fucking compiling cards.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We just love cards. Hallmark paint chip cards.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. That's all our business, right?

[Stephen]

I think so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Has it been 45 minutes yet? We gotta hit that mark.

[Stephen]

Cut half that out, Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we are back. I mean, it's like the true crime loop that we're always in where I'm referencing, like, you know, Greg Kinnear needs to play Ted Bundy.

[Stephen]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Since that time, Zac Efron has played Ted Bundy.

[Stephen]

I still think that Greg Kinnear would have been a great contender because he's so, like, his face gives you a softness, a soft feeling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He has, like, the kind eyes and the. The kind of tented eyebrows of a, like, concerned Christian man.

[Stephen]

Yeah. Which is, like. Not to say that Ted Bundy did, but I think that would get across the point, which is he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Stephen]

And Zac Afron did a great job, but he definitely. Just, like, he played more wolf than sheep, I felt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Because he's. Zac Efron was hot from age 8, which I am sorry to say, but it's, like, the reason that we know about him.

[Stephen]

Can you say that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know that's very questionable, but let's do an immediate corrections corner. I shouldn't have said that. But what I'm saying is it's like a vibe. And the vibe has to be, I will not hurt you. That's the problem with Ted Bundy. She came off as the Fair Isle sweater. Caring, concerned. I'm volunteering for a suicide hotline.

[Stephen]

Totally. I'm doing the dishes after your party for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one suspects me, even when they're a Female cop who works alongside you and hears that it's a guy in a yellow bug. And our girl Ann Rule was like, can't be my friend Ted.

[Stephen]

No way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cannot be him.

[Stephen]

I mean, it's a really good point too, because, like, the hotter the actor playing Ted Bundy is, the easier you're like, of course she went with him. He's hot. But Ted Bundy wasn't hot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It wasn't like that.

[Stephen]

It wasn't like that. I want to see it as, like, how we convince ourselves that everything is fine because this person doesn't seem threatening. I do think that Greg Kinnear going in that direction would be really interesting. Like that kind of actor. Just maybe an unknown, you know, an.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Unknown or, you know, in 10 years, we will get a chance to do this again and we'll pull old Kinnear out of the mothballs. Because I think he is, like, semi retired. I think he is the kind of person that would be done with Hollywood. Even better for that kind of casting, where it's like just. He wants nothing to do with the trappings of fame. Great, get in here. Because that's the vibe behind this guy, is you look at this person. Yeah. You're like, this guy. My parents would love him. That's the trick of fucking Ted Bundy. Totally. The promise of when you think you've got the best boyfriend and he is the literal devil.

[Stephen]

That's exactly it. Okay, that's amazing. Okay, so we're in my fucking pod loft for the first time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, do you remember getting that apartment and what. I remember how excited you were, but I don't wanna speak for you. What was that transition like for you?

[Stephen]

Yeah, it was really wild. Vince and I stayed at our original apartment and I stayed there before I met him, longer than I necessarily needed the rent control for. Yeah, like, that's originally why I moved in. I could afford it without the boyfriend I had been seeing at the time. And so I was like, this is the only apartment I can afford without him. Because, you know, things were going okay with the Cooking Channel stuff. So when we just waited, it was that feeling of like, okay, we have some money and some savings now, and Vince has a good job and everything, but it could all come crashing down. Let's not get rid of this apartment. Yeah, it was like, I think, like 1250amonth rent controlled. So, like, stepping up and getting that apartment, which was like the nicest apartment either of us have ever lived in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Stephen]

It had, like, all the trappings. It had, like, it Was, like, modern.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. It was cool.

[Stephen]

Air conditioning and a dishwasher. And, like, down the hall were, like, multiple laundry facilities. You know, there was a pool and elevator complex. There was an elevator. There was a chute. High ceilings. High popcorn ceilings. But it was very exciting, I think, for both of us to be, like, experiencing. It felt like the first material thing that I could show for the success of the podcast. And it was very, very exciting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very exciting. It was what I like to call the Jeffersons effect, where you were moving on up and you actually were like, this isn't. It's not like what we all do, which is, like, you roll the dice, you use a credit card. Who knows what's gonna happen? Instead, you were like, I'm gonna be as careful as possible, and I still get to make this move.

[Stephen]

Right. Right. Like, it won't be the end of the world if we have to, like, downsize again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Yeah. You won't be totally fucked, but you also aren't really rolling the dice in a real way. Also, if you want to see Georgia's apartment in the downstairs. Cause I think there's plenty of pictures of the pod loft. But when we did that Entertainment Weekly spread, the whole photo shoot was in the downstairs of Georgia's apartment.

[Stephen]

Right, Right. And then I also want to give a shout out to Josh Kirby and John Velly for putting me on the real oneals. The show. They were. They, like, rode us apart. And you couldn't do it. And I was like, well, I'm doing it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

And it was just so much fun. And they were so sweet. And they ended up casting me in another thing when they were then writing on Fresh off the Boat. So they've just been. They're like my uncles. They've just. Even though I'm older than them, I think they've just been really supportive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's really nice. I remember that was. I was still on baskets, I think, at that point, and I was like. You were like, hey, we could do this thing. And I'm like, I can't, though.

[Stephen]

Like, I can't do another job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't do another job. And also, I understand why you're excited. I literally spent all of the 90s on fence trying to do this. I never wanna go back.

[Stephen]

It was so exciting for me because I had done it in the 90s, as in early 2000s, as a background actor, which you just get treated like cattle. It's really fun, but you are almost of space until they yell action.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

So going on there as, like, A person with a line.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With lines.

[Stephen]

Yeah. And a little part like I got to be put in a trailer. I got an omelet. Like I'll never forget when I was. When I was an extra and I didn't have money for food. So you'd go on, you'd be there like 14 hours a day and you'd eat the craft services. But the craft services for the extras was not great. And I remember going to crack a hard boiled egg and peel it and just the whole all the whites peeled off completely with the shell. It was so depressing. In a weird way you peeled an.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Egg down to the hardened yolk.

[Stephen]

Cause it was so poorly boiled and so cheaply bought that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How would you do that on the Food Network?

[Stephen]

Well, this is depressing. Like this is sad. This makes me sad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, as I crack what I thought was the shell of this hard boiled egg, the white comes entire thing just. And I'm left with a chalky yellow globe.

[Stephen]

Yeah, that was. So I got an omelette and it just kind of. That felt like full circle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because they actually like when you are a member of the cast, when you have a line, the craft service people are like, what would you like? Anything you'd like.

[Stephen]

You can have anything. And yeah, that was Willy Wonka shit. And the inside sad yellow yolk, chalky yolk to a beautiful omelette.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It you truly had.

[Stephen]

That is. I truly had. That's a metaphor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, should we do we get into the main the stories of this episode? Georgia goes first on this episode. This is her story about how the Amber Alert system was founded.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen]

A sleek professional website makes you look very put together even when you're wearing sweatpants and eating cereal out of a mug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's where Squarespace comes in.

[Stephen]

Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer your services and get paid all in one place.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From consultations to experiences. Showcase your services with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your.

[Stephen]

Business and managing those payments is a breeze and just a few clicks you'll be able to accept payments with options like Klarna, Apple Pay, afterpay and more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'll get paid on time with professional on brand invoices and online payments. Plus, streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools and.

[Stephen]

Get discovered faster with Squarespace's built in SEO tools. With meta descriptions and auto generated sitemaps, you'll rank higher in search results globally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to squarespace.com murder for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Stephen]

That's squarespace.com murder code murder. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. Think you're first.

[Stephen]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Stephen]

I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna take it. Take it and do it. Limit. Love it. Limit to the limit. Close time. River. Close time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. What was the theme? Can you think of the tune?

[Stephen]

Yes. Hold on. Cause my mom worked there for a while. Wait, we start it. Something, something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I went to see the Golden Girls live, which is Drew Drozi, Jackie Beat, Sam Pancake, Sherry Vine. Unbelievable. Word for word reenactments of.

[Stephen]

Is that what it is it on Instagram, but I don't know what it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You have to go. It's so funny. I told Joe derosa about it because he is obsessed with the Golden Girls.

[Stephen]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he was like so mad that he hadn't gone.

[Stephen]

But challenge Scott. He has a Golden Girls podcast. Have you met him? He's the vest. You got to bring him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But in between the scenes, they go to real like mid-80s commercials. And so there was the Shasta commercial. I want a pub. I wanna Shasta. There were all these commercials.

[Stephen]

Remember the bubble gum one with two twins? Double bubble, Double mint. Double mint gum. It's a statement of the great from Double Mint Gum. The reason I remember Close time is cause my mom worked for them and they had this. They had this commercial where the like cute, hot model would walk out and like kick her leg and like, keep walking. I was like, class time. And so my mom told, like, came home crying one day. It was like I was walking out of a meeting and I tried to do like class time kick, like as a cute joke to end it. And she like put my skirt caught and her skirt was too tight and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She just kicked both of her legs out and fell.

[Stephen]

Oh, no. That's such a Georgia move. So I cannot think of clothes time without my mom kicking her fucking legs up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Close time is like the place where we'd beg my mom to take us and she'd get shoulder pads. She would be exhausted from work and we'd be like, I just need One shirt and you'd want to like shop the whole store. And my mom would be like five more minutes and like going crazy like.

[Stephen]

Cheap hangers and these, these like sad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Metal fucking racks and nothing ever fit me. Everything was too small. Where I'd be like, I want these tiny pants.

[Stephen]

But I couldn't wear anything for us. That was Mimi's cafe. And my mom would order a fucking glass of wine from the poor fucking hostess who couldn't serve wine and just sit in the fucking waiting area.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, what? Waiting for a table?

[Stephen]

Just chug wine. Cool moms.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway.

[Stephen]

Oh wow. Where are we? What's happening? Has it been 45 minutes yet? Okay, great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we're almost there.

[Stephen]

I'm about to blow my nose on my shirt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really?

[Stephen]

Can you actually just don't have a tissue? Can everyone confirm that that was a. I don't have a tissue.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She doesn't give a.

[Stephen]

It was either my shirt or my cat that was on my lap and I chose my shirt. All right, all right, here we go. All right, so remember first time. We'll take it too. No, not the same thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not the same thing.

[Stephen]

All right, so last week I talked about Megan's, your serious voice with clearly I'm about to. There's a cross eyed cat staring at me the whole time. Megan's Law talked about that, right? So then I was like, hey, what's another one of those that like we don't know the history of. So January 17th in 1996, which is exactly 21 years ago today. So nine year old Amber Hagerman is riding her bike in the parking lot of an abandoned Winn Dixie in Arlington, Texas and she's with her five year old brother. Have you been to a Winn Dixie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I haven't.

[Stephen]

Have you been in an abandoned parking lot?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kind of, but just the idea of it, it simply would not. Like today, not since 95. I feel like this, this idea of.

[Stephen]

Children alone anywhere seems like too, I think that like it took a lot of small towns a while to catch up, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because people thought, oh no, not here and it stays here and that stuff. But like these days, never, never.

[Stephen]

They wouldn't allow people like children in an abandoned parking lot. They would like someone will call the police, right? Or like you wouldn't be able to get off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also anyone passing by would call the police. If there was two, a five year old and a seven year old riding their bikes, it would be like a major.

[Stephen]

Okay, well, here's why.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but here.

[Stephen]

Okay, so they were about Two blocks from their grandma's house. It was broad fucking daylight. And someone drives into the parking lot, grabs Amber off of her bicycle. Like they didn't even try to. Like he just grabs her and drives her away in his black pickup truck. There's one witness to step forward. And he was a neighbor, his name was Jim Cavell. He's a 78 year old retiree, witnesses the whole thing and calls the police right away. And he says she was by herself. I saw this pickup. He pulled up, jumped out and grabbed her when she screamed. I figured the police, I don't know about it. So I called them. That's so fucking Arlington, Texas. Like, well, figured the cops should know he was nearby about da da, da da. And so he, this is what, how he described the person, that he was a white or Hispanic male, 25 to 40, under 6ft tall, medium build, driving a late 1980s or early 1990s model full size American made black truck. And then so Amber's brother Ricky goes home, tells his parents what happened. They're freaking out. In the abandoned parking lot of the Winn Dixie, there's also a laundry laundromat. And I guess it was full of customers, but police thought that a lot of them were in the country illegally. And so when the cops fucking swarmed, they got the fuck out of there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

And there was a truck that was similar to that of the kidnapper spotted outside before she was taken outside of the laundromat. But no one ever came forward and said that they know who it was. And there was a $75,000 reward that also had the promise that they wouldn't be deported if they came forward with information. But no one ever came forward. There's a huge search. And then four days later, a security guard who's walking his dog late at night stumbles upon the nude body of Amber. She's in a creek behind an apartment complex which is less than five miles from the grocery store parking lot. Amber only has on a sock on her right foot. And an autopsy reveals that her kidnapper had kept her alive for two days. And she was beaten and sexually assaulted. And then her throat was slashed and she was dumped behind the apartment complex. Complex, which like, makes you think that he lived there or at least knew someone who lived there and was staying in town and had some time alone. Like, I don't think it would be someone who actually lives there because it's too obvious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it wouldn't make a lot of sense.

[Stephen]

Yeah, like you're staying like your back door Right, Yeah. You're staying at your brother in law's apartment while he's out of town. And. Yeah, so after the funeral, a woman named Diana Simone, she's just a random woman. She's a massage therapist and a mother and she's from Dallas and she fucking calls a radio station and she's like, hey, if, if you guys can alert the public to severe weather, why the fuck can't you do the same thing for when children are abducted? She's just like, put some shit together. And it's like, what the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, wait, say her name again.

[Stephen]

Her name is Diana Simone. Yeah, so she's, she's a badass motherfucker. And she says, and I wish I could do this in a fucking Dallas accent, but I don't want to be insulting that she says they're saying Amber was taken at 4 o' clock in the afternoon, thrown in a pickup truck and driven somewhere and that nobody saw anything. And then she says, I'm sorry, that's not possible. The problem was not that people didn't see them, it's that they didn't know what they were seeing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

So nine months after Amber's death, radio stations and law enforcement officials and North Texas law enforcement, what they call America's Missing broadcast emergency response, or Amber Alerts. They relay reports of kidnappings to the public. It's emergency response system that disseminates information about a missing person, usually a child, by media broadcasting or electronic Broadway signs as of Dec. 23, 2015, that there have been 800 children rescued and returned specifically because of Amber Alert. But unfortunately, Amber Hagerman's abduction and murder has never been solved.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Stephen]

I know. And her mom, Amber's mom, says, I know Amber would be very proud of this. She was always another mommy to all my children. But I also want people to remember Amber, that she had to sacrifice her life for Amber Alert. So, like, mom isn't like, you know, empowered and proud of this shit? She's fucking, she's. It's bittersweet for her, you know, like, why did her daughter have to be the fucking of this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her child died.

[Stephen]

Yeah. So sad. All right, so it's never been solved, but after I did some like, sleuthing, the thing I found that the only, the only like connection to an actual person that could possibly be involved that I found was. Okay, so in 2010, DNA identified a man that 25 years ago had kidnapped, sexually assaulted and slit the throat of 8 year old Jennifer Shuett. And Jennifer survived.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Stephen]

And I wrote and kicked major ass at healing and working on herself. She's made it her life's mission to speak out on behalf of victims. After her Jennifer's attack, she lay dying in this fucking field of her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's when I survived.

[Stephen]

Yep. Have you seen her with a pink. She's got like pink hair and she's kind of like punk and goth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the guy took her out of her bedroom through the window.

[Stephen]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, dude.

[Stephen]

And I know, okay, she, I mean this chick is like the epitome of like, here's how you get back your life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, big time. She's amazing.

[Stephen]

Yes. So she was in the field at 8 years old for 12 hours before she was discovered. And in her hospital bed she had to scribble notes to the police. And she said that her attacker said her name, his name was Dennis. And she did this amazing sketch. Like she was fucking on it and in it she was like, I knew I was going to die and I was going to get every little information, like bit of information burn into my head. And it turns out that the dude was a 40 year old welder from North Little Rock, Arkansas. He had a wife and three kids. And his DNA was on file because he had been like, he has a fucking rap sheet of assaulting and kidnapping women. There's a ghost train going by my fucking new apartment. Okay. So he had been, he had been, you know, the normal, arrested for rape and assault and only got this many months. And in one case, a weekend in prison for, for rape, for it got, you know, bargained down to. Pled down to like, you know, bullshit stuff. So he had never actually been really. Da, da, da, da. Convicted of kidnapping, blah, blah, blah. He confesses to kidnapping, raping and trying to kill Jennifer Eschewett. Her body was. She was lying naked on her back on top of a fire ant nest. Fourteen hours later, she woke up covered in fire ants. She couldn't move. She tried to scream. Something about the fire ants though, kept her alive. And I don't know, I don't remember what it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think, I think if I'm remembering this correctly, because this is another one that's like crazy. I survived. If you can see it. She's one of those people, like you said, the way she talks about it, you're like badass.

[Stephen]

Yeah. Like there's a, you know, there's something inside of you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When you're losing a lot of blood, you're not supposed to go to sleep, like, so you don't lose consciousness.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I think they kept her awake.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God. No, no, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That makes sense. I'm pretty sure. You should watch her. I survived. Look up Jennifer in whatever city in Texas this is because. Because she tells the story.

[Stephen]

It's chilling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Stephen]

Okay, so he gets arrested for all of this, which is so similar. And this was in Texas and she had been kidnapped from a Texas apartment. So I mean, it's so similar. I don't think they have DNA from Amber's body, so there's really no way to tie it together. And unfortunately this killed himself in 2010. But he had confessed. And she says, you chose the wrong little 45 pound 8 year old girl to try and murder. Because for 19 years I've thought of you every single day and helped search for you. And every year that's passed has given me more strength and drive for when I finally would be face to face face with you as I am today. In his sentencing, she said, but motherfucking Bradford hanged himself in his cell and that's it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, so he went to jail for that attack.

[Stephen]

He did. Oh, that's good that he's killed himself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

So I mean, it's just such a similar. An 8 year old girl that he kidnapped, slit her throat, left her for dead. This one happened to survive in Texas, you know, in the 90s. It's just so Amber. Another like person who's done a lot but at the expense of their life. He looks bummed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's that?

[Stephen]

You look bummed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah, it's a bummer.

[Stephen]

It is a bummer. But I think it's an important story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, of course.

[Stephen]

And it's horrifying that he was never found. Like, what the. Well, yeah, like there were.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was really surprised that you said that because that I know of that little girl because of Amber alerts. And so I just completely assumed that that was a fully, like a case that came all the way around and that there was a prosecution for it and that was part of it.

[Stephen]

Those two, Kate, that one in Megan's Lots, like, they're more horrifying than you would expect them to be. And they've done a lot, but it's just so heartbreaking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's so awful.

[Stephen]

Awful. But we should also know about it. And honestly, like, I, when I got my cell phone, I like turned off the Amber alert. You can turn off the like emergency alerts on your phone. And it made me want to turn mine back on because, like, we'll do it. I'm gonna. I am, I'm going to like what if you fucking see a fucking. You know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, then also what's the problem? You know? Yeah. What does it take? It's not, it's not like interfering with your life or whatever.

[Stephen]

And it's just they had so much information to go on based on that track that, you know, if there was a system set up, they didn't find her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

Is scary. And I feel like someone knows their brother in law or ex brother in law or cousin or uncle, you know, is suspicious but don't want to come forward. Like it's always that, you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Or your other culture guy.

[Stephen]

Yeah. But someone. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's a good one.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. That was a very, very tough story. Do you have updates for it?

[Stephen]

I do. I have some updates. Unfortunately, Amber Hagerman's murder remains unsolved. In the three decades since Amber's abduction, police have received over 7,000 tips.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Stephen]

Arlington Police Sergeant Grant Gilden told People magazine that they continue to receive leads, several of which they investigate extensively. It's also never been considered a cold case as it's never gone 180 days without a lead coming in, which I guess is what they classify a cold case on. I do wish they would. I mean, maybe they could release more evidence. Another little piece of the puzzle. So someone out there might put it together. But I am not in law enforcement.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, I would be very interested, I bet you, just knowing the online sleuthing world and the way people dedicate themselves to specific cases, I bet you there is a solid group of online sleuths who are trying, who are probably the ones that are calling in with that new information or trying to push that cold case forward.

[Stephen]

But if you gave them one more little piece of the puzzle like, it reminds me of Michelle McNamara's book, I'll be Gone in the Dark. She sent away for some cufflinks that she found at a, A, like, thrift store online that sounded like a pair of cufflinks that had been stolen from one of the victim's houses. Like that kind of thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Stephen]

Is so intricate and interesting. And I just, you know, I think there's a lot of those out there that could be helped with stuff like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, for sure.

[Stephen]

So Gildan believes the killer is still alive. And police remain hopeful that recent advancements in DNA testing and new tips from the public will help solve the case. Amber's mother, Donna Williams Williams, still lives in Texas, and she's a child safety advocate. Today, Amber alerts are used in all 50 states, the district of Colombia parts of Indian country, Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, and over 45 countries. And yes, I put it on my phone finally. So rest assured.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great. Yeah. I mean, that deep tragedy that then begins to represent advocation for missing children and children at risk is a beautiful, you know, kind of testament to Amber's mother's work.

[Stephen]

Definitely. And it's just, I'll never forget that the woman who called into the radio station and said, we get alerts about weather. There has to be a system for missing children. And like, what a simple idea. That's just a huge revelation. What an incredible legacy to have.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also. And then now there's also Silver alerts, which I get on my phone when people with dementia walk away from their houses, which is really important. That happens a lot. And that legacy grows with that kind of like looking out for each other, an organized looking out for each other. It's beautiful.

[Stephen]

Absolutely. And so also, according to the national center for Missing and Exploited children, as of December 31, 2024, this past December, at least 1268 children have been recovered due to the activation of an Amber Alert.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So amazing.

[Stephen]

The legacy is there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's huge.

[Stephen]

All right, let's get into Karen's awful, awful story about Luca Magnotta.

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[Stephen]

So I get that ping on my phone, on my app that tells me when there's someone like on my lawn, I'm such an old lady or like, you know, walking up my driveway because, because I live up off the street and you shouldn't be there if you're not meant to be there. So like, if I get the ping that someone's on my lawn and I'm like, I know something's up and I can check it before they even get to the door or break in in the window, it's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen]

Yeah, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those are the ones that just get us.

[Stephen]

I'm sorry. I know, but I Think they're important?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of course.

[Stephen]

I mean, it's horrifying. There's no, like, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, they're definitely important.

[Stephen]

Like, I'm apologizing because it's like, it's a hard thing to talk about in here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this one is. We have gotten so many tweets about it and so many requests to do this one that I was like, who the fuck is this guy? That people keep on being like, how could you not have done this yet? And so I started looking into it and there are so many. It is so detailed that what I did was tapped old Sarge Morris.

[Stephen]

No, you didn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I was like, can you help me do research? Yeah, girl.

[Stephen]

It's not going to make any sense until the week after this episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't care. By then it's going to have caught, like, wildfire.

[Stephen]

Sarge Morris over here. So that's awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So this is Stephen Amorous research, but it's such a good story and it's super intense. It's the story of Luca Magnotta, the Canadian. Yes. Dude, dude, dude.

[Stephen]

Tell me everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We always think the Canadians are so chill, sweet angels with their maple syrup and their flags, but not. Not this specific one who was born Eric Clinton Kirk Newman on July 24, 1982 in Scarborough, Ontario, when he was 21. We don't know that much about his childhood, but when he was 21, we know that he started stripping in a Toronto club and appearing in low budget gay porn. So not a glamorous life. And that was in 2003 and 2004. He was convicted of impersonation and fraud after he befriended a mentally incapacitated 21 year old woman, applied for credit cards in her name and charged up $10,000 in fees.

[Stephen]

So this guy's got some fucking straight off the 21 year old bat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ish use issues, Some serious issues. I would say narcissism is gonna be in there at some point.

[Stephen]

Sociopathy, perhaps a sociopath. Throw them all in there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he was, before he was sentenced to nine months of community service and 12 months probation, his lawyer actually showed the court a medical record claiming that he had significant psychiatric issues.

[Stephen]

Wow. I want to read those reports so bad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, like, details.

[Stephen]

Yeah. Like some psychologist is sitting there in a room with him and they're like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, dude, I'm an underlying significance.

[Stephen]

Yeah, this person just like tried to get some money off a person. But this is like this motherfucker is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Manipulating mentally handicapped people to get credit.

[Stephen]

Cards and has like, yes, okay. That's enough. So this is just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're laying down a base coat, like.

[Stephen]

When you do your nails.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the primer.

[Stephen]

This is like when you're making a. When you're making something and you put in the. What's the thing with the. You know, the carrots and the celery and the aru? Not aru is the, like sauce. No, you're right. Listen, I have a cooking. No, I don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen, I'm from the cooking town.

[Stephen]

Aru.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so then into.

[Stephen]

Wait, no, it's mirepoix.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A mirepoix. A roux. You mean you cut up the onions?

[Stephen]

Yes, a roux is the. Yes. So a couple. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rue's the start of something else, like a bechemal sauce. Great.

[Stephen]

I was like, wow, it's been a while.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so in 2006, he legally changes his name from Eric Clinton Newman to Luca Rocco Magnotta. So that's a completely made up name.

[Stephen]

Why did he.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which. I love it. He wanted to seem Italian. You know how Italians are. So he applies for bankruptcy in March of 2007, saying citing illness, lack of employment, insufficient income to pay off his debts. Hey, we've all been there. But then after the bankruptcy, his quest for fame kicks into high gear.

[Stephen]

He was questing for fame.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's questing for fame in a big way. So he wants money. He wants to live Sheila E's glamorous life.

[Stephen]

Like you and I know, like, at this point, like, fame isn't like what people say it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stan, cut that part out.

[Stephen]

Fame is still a popcorn ceiling man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You gotta get that popcorn ceiling life. Okay, so here's what he does. He auditions for a reality show called Cover Guy. You can see the opening credits now. No, no, I'm saying in your mind, Cover Guy. He declares in his casting video that quote, a lot of people tell me I'm devastatingly good looking.

[Stephen]

You know, that that shit would sell now. But like, whatever year that was, everyone's like, what is this shit?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What are you doing? He was not chosen.

[Stephen]

He was a reject from COVID Guy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From COVID Guy.

[Stephen]

Like, what'll break your heart more then?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, this, that. He auditions for the reality show Plastic Makes Perfect.

[Stephen]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Flaunting his multiple hair transplants, nose job, explaining how he wanted to get pectoral implants. He was ridiculous. Rejected. Yeah.

[Stephen]

Explain my face right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's just not. The Fame plan is not going as expected.

[Stephen]

To get rejected from the bottom of the barrel, like, you know, is the bottom of the barrel show you're not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good enough for a plastic surgery show.

[Stephen]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then what he started to do was focus his efforts online. So he twice created Wikipedia pages for himself, only to have them taken down by the self policing community. Imagine what was on those. It's Wikipedia.

[Stephen]

Imagine the self. Like the self policing community is like, they let so much shit fly, and then they're like, this fucking idiot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not this guy.

[Stephen]

Not this fucking idiot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then he created the rumor on message boards that he was dating Carla Homolka.

[Stephen]

The.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. The wife of Paul Bernardo who killed two teenagers along with raping and murdering her own sister.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God. This is how. Okay, I did not unders I In my mind, whenever I saw people write this thing, I thought he was Paul Bernard. I think I can. I got these whole thing, like these whole things confused. So this is exciting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this is a guy who. He creates the rumor on message boards that he is dating her.

[Stephen]

But he's not the one who killed her sister.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that's her husband.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God. I thought he really did that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then the husband goes to jail. She, I think, goes to jail for a while, but then gets out.

[Stephen]

Gets out. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then he decides to tell people he's dating her now that she's out to get that kind of infamy. That's the level of celebrity he's going for now. But then he calls into a radio show to deny the rumors that he started online. Then he visited because it's a newsroom in Toronto, and that's the first time he's on mainstream press talking about it and denying it. Oh, sorry. He said he dated her in the 90s, not when she got out of jail. All right, so then there's many profiles on various Internet, social media and discussion forums created over several years, years to plant false or unverified claims about him. And he would himself immediately dismiss these as rumors and hoaxes and a campaign of cyber stalking. According to the police, Magnotta set up at least 70 Facebook pages and 20 websites under different names.

[Stephen]

Seventy Facebook pages?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

Can you imagine how many naps that is?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, instead, how many other things could you have been doing naps in 2010? This is the part where it's gonna turn and you're going to get upset. Okay.

[Stephen]

Do children get murdered?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. In 2010, he posted a video called One Boy, Two Kittens.

[Stephen]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where he asphyxiated two tabby cats.

[Stephen]

Wait, what? No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Using a vacuum cleaner. Yeah. And a.

[Stephen]

This is why I've never heard of him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And until he was tracked Down. He was just known as the Vacuum Kitten Killer.

[Stephen]

How does that even work? So he put. Oh, my God. Yeah, that was a big jump from 70. Facebook.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Well, here's the thing. All that other stuff isn't working. So he keeps doing things attempt after attempt after attempts.

[Stephen]

Attention. It is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, so then he's. Because he's a sociopath. Because he doesn't really care and he doesn't have any empathy.

[Stephen]

Jesus Christ.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He does that.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Now we're in 2012, and it is May 26, and a Montana lawyer named Roger Renville sees a bizarre Internet video depicting a man being stabbed and dismembered. He alerts US and Canadian police about this video, and they dismiss it as a fake.

[Stephen]

He just saw it, like, where it was posted.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it was uploaded. It was called One Lunatic, One Ice Pick. And it was uploaded to two Gore sites, which were super explicit places that were just, like, super violent.

[Stephen]

I love that this guy who's, like, on Gore sites is like, this is too much for me. Like, what? You know, like, it had to be that awful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, he's a lawyer, so maybe he was looking on there for this reason.

[Stephen]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, because he reported it to the police, so.

[Stephen]

So it looked real. Like. Oh, maybe he's, like, seen gore. Like, real crime scenes and bodies, so he knows what it looks like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's kind. I think that's what they said. Holy shit. Meanwhile, Luca Magnotta has flown from Montreal to Paris. And when he arrives in Paris, he was wearing a wig and a Mickey Mouse T shirt.

[Stephen]

Super chill.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then. So basically, that was on the 26th, is when he flew to Paris. Three days later, on the 29th, the residents of his apartment building start complaining of a foul smell.

[Stephen]

Nope, never complain of a foul smell.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the janitor then discovers a suitcase next to a mountain of garbage bags behind the building, and inside is the headless torso of a man.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now. 6:00pm that same night, a package containing a human foot is received at the Conservative Party of Canada headquarters in Ottawa, and it had been mailed from Montreal. At 9pm, a package addressed to the Liberal Party headquarters in Ottawa was discovered by postal employees to contain a human hand.

[Stephen]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So after taking statements and finding evidence in the trash, including a blunt instrument and papers identifying Luca Magnotta, the police enter his apartment.

[Stephen]

So, like, he did this on purpose? Like, sent this shit, like, knowingly that it was his stuff, like, gonna lead to him on purpose? Sounds like it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. What do you mean?

[Stephen]

Never mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I don't think so.

[Stephen]

Okay. Just. They pound it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So police enter his apartment, and it's actually a very dark studio apartment. And then they find a bloody mattress and blood in the refrigerator. And scrawled in red ink inside a closet are the words, if you don't like the reflection, don't look in the mirror. I don't care.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So in a restaurant, warrant is issued for Luka Magnotta. So the Interpol adds him to the wanted list. And people. He was in Paris, and he was declared an international fugitive. And the cops start getting a ton of tips that he's at a bar, he's trying to crash a house party. He actually took the bus to Berlin. His name was all over the papers and all over television. And the French media nicknamed him the Butcher of Montreal, and the German media nicknamed him the Porno Killer.

[Stephen]

So Butcher of Montreal is way cooler. He.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's better. So he gets to. This is my favorite part. He gets to. In Berlin, he gets to an Internet cafe. This is about a week after all that. And the guy that's working there, a man walks in wearing sunglasses and makeup and says, bonjour, Internet. And so the guy kind of notices him.

[Stephen]

This episode is called bonjour, Internet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? And so the guy working there recognizes this man's face who walked in, but he can't place it, and so he's looking at the guy. So the guy goes over to a computer and rents it out. And the guy from his workstation is looking down at the monitor that this guy is using. And he noticed that this man, who is wearing sunglasses, is looking at article after article about the killer in Montreal.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so then he puts it together that it's him.

[Stephen]

Can you imagine?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically, they go up and they're just like, you're that guy, right? He goes, know you. You caught me.

[Stephen]

Oh, what in the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, so he basically got caught because he was Googling pictures of himself.

[Stephen]

Idiot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I feel like you just.

[Stephen]

There's nothing good that happens in Internet cafes and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, not anymore.

[Stephen]

You know what I mean? Like, something's wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's over now. Yeah, maybe 1997. 98. That was the last time. Yeah. Okay. So then on June 5, a package containing a right foot was delivered to St. George's School. Another package containing a right hand was sent to Falls Creek Elementary School in Vancouver. Both schools opened as normal on the following morning, and it was confirmed that both packages were sent from Montreal.

[Stephen]

But were they staggered? Like, who was sending them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then he was sending them all from Montreal, but they were different places. So, like, Vancouver's further away. So Magnotta is arrested and then he's transferred to a Berlin prison hospital and a psychiatrist believes that he's in a psychotic state. So meanwhile, the police identify the torso victim as Lin Jun, and he's a 33 year old Chinese computer science student at Concordia University. It's unclear how he met Luke Mangatta.

[Stephen]

At an Internet cafe, I bet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, they say that Mangatta had been posting Men Seeking Men in the Men Seeking Men section of Craigslist under an alias. And so basically they go back and check the video and they see Lynn Jun had entered Luca Magnotta's apartment building. And then like the next day is when they see the video where Luca Magnotta is taking things out and putting them in the garbage can.

[Stephen]

He just wanted to love and be loved and got murdered. That's so sad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah. So then he gets taken back to Canada on a military plane and then they find Lynn John Skull at the edge of a small lake in Angren park after they get an anonymous tip. So someone may have found it. And so not only does Luca Magnotta go to trial, obviously he's arrested and charged with murder, but the police charged the website owner who posted one Lunatic, whatever the name of that video was. That guy got charged with corrupting more rolls. One Lunatic, one ice pick.

[Stephen]

Why?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he ended up going, because it was real.

[Stephen]

But he didn't know it was real.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, but it's his, like responsibility. He probably, I think probably in watching it like the lawyer did, you would know.

[Stephen]

Yeah. God. So is it out there? Can you like. I wonder if it's out there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have no idea.

[Stephen]

Did you ever watch like, what was that website? It wasn't sick.com, but it was something like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rotten.com.

[Stephen]

Rotten.Com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

Did you ever click through that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

That's troubling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's a bummer, but I've seen.

[Stephen]

Yeah, go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically he just goes to court and he ends up. They give him a life sentence with. Without the chance of parole for at least 25 years. And they try to say in the court case that he's basically that he was crazy and it doesn't work and he gets basically the full extent. And they added on all these other charges, it was like first degree murder, but then also committing an indignity to a human body, publishing obscene material, criminally harassed prime minister. I mean, all that sending stuff to government stuff made it all, you know.

[Stephen]

So did they say what he had? Like, how he killed the guy and then, like, was the dismemberment after he was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it's all in the video, so it looked like they. He stabbed him to death and then dismembered him.

[Stephen]

Jesus Christ. Can you imagine if you'd, like, watch that, Being like, this is fake, and then, like, going back and being like, no, you fucking watched him around.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's why all that stuff is, like, why would you want that in your head? It's such a bummer. And it's such bad vibes. Even if you're faking something like that, like, what the fuck are you doing?

[Stephen]

I'll look up crime scene photos sometimes, and then there's ones that are like, they clearly can't be fake. And I'd be like, nope, it's fake. I have to commit to it being fake, or else I'll lose my mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's not. I don't think it's good to have those pictures in your head.

[Stephen]

Absolutely not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. And it doesn't help you. It's not like you can't imagine what it might be like.

[Stephen]

Right. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He also. So anyway, 2015, Luca Magnott, he tried to file an appeal for the convictions, but it didn't. It didn't work, and he actually withdrew the appeal himself. So apparently someone. I don't know if I don't know.

[Stephen]

What happened, but I was like, cut it out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was like, you know what? I'm gonna drop this whole fame thing. Maybe I'm gonna try to do something else.

[Stephen]

Finally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm just gonna. I'm gonna get into Buddhism. So that's the story. Now I understand why everybody was so obsessed with it, because it truly is insane and horrible and beyond. That's like a tabloidy.

[Stephen]

I'm gonna listen to other people now because, like, I always thought that I always. I never looked that one up. Everyone does constantly want us to do that one. And I always thought it was connected. I got that one and that horrible couple, kind of. The Paul Bernardo case. Yeah. Yeah. I always kind of thought it was the same thing. I was like, I don't need to know about this one. So I didn't realize. I have never heard any of that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know me. I didn't know it was that, like, crazy detailed. I didn't know he was like, the idea that you're sending body parts to the prime minister or to, like, grammar schools, all those things where. And then knowing his whole thing of wanting to be famous, like, you're that needy that you.

[Stephen]

You would like. He didn't murder someone because he wanted to murder someone. He murdered someone so he could put the video up online and get famous. It does seem like that, which is so gross.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, like, I guess it's. It must be an element of most killers, the thought that, like, everyone will know me, or I'll have this power. They'll all become renown or whatever.

[Stephen]

But, like, most of those people do, like. Like, what are the killings called when, like, you're out in public and you kill a bunch of people?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like a mass murder.

[Stephen]

Like, they do mass murders to do that. Not what he did, which is, like, so personal and creepy. And then it's almost like forcing other people to watch it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well.

[Stephen]

Well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also, it's. It almost seems like just this lame modern version where it's just like, oh, I'll put it on YouTube. You know what I mean? I'll put my super gross, you know, serious mental problem on YouTube and get a bunch of hits and, like, force.

[Stephen]

Other people to have to deal with. With that, having seen that for the rest of their lives.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but I mean, that's the thing. If you're looking, you're gonna find it. Like, you have to remember, if you're. If you're on a horrible gore site, then that's what you might look at, and then you're gonna have that in your head.

[Stephen]

Don't do it. As someone who, like, can't sleep at night, it's so easy to just kind of, like, click on this thing and click on the next thing, and then suddenly you find yourself at this, like, place, and then suddenly you see some shit you don't want to see, but you can't look away. It's like, not like you're, like, fucking typing in, like, man murders another man. It's like you just, like, I've seen some shit that I didn't realize I didn't want to see until I saw it. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

And it's hard to get out of your head, but who are you to, like, other people are looking at it because they want to see it. It's fucked up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

That's amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was crazy. We finally did that one.

[Stephen]

Finally. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, thank you.

[Stephen]

Okay. Wow. Karen, we're back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I know.

[Stephen]

Any updates?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, a couple. So in 2018, Luca Magnotta's mother co authored the book My Son the Killer. And in it, he spoke out publicly for the first time since his conviction, saying that he regretted his defense strategy the quote is, it's very annoying. I never wanted anything to do with the ncr, which means not criminally responsible, which is Canada's version of the insanity defense, or an approximation. I have no mental illness whatsoever. I had to go with it, even though I didn't want to, but my lawyers pressured me into it. End quote. So just kind of a real sociopath, psychopathic move of. I'm here to argue about how people see me being defined as whether or not I'm criminally responsible.

[Stephen]

I am criminally responsible, and someone else did me dirty. And that's why. That's why. Period.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Scapegoating, blaming, and still. Yeah, that's the one comment he makes. According to ctv, Magnott is currently imprisoned at the medium security La Me Casa institution. He'll be eligible for what they call day parole in 2034 and full parole in 2037.

[Stephen]

Yikes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And of course, we all know that a year after that, in 2019, Netflix released the legendary docu series Don't Fuck with Cats, which was all the cyber sleuths who basically banded together to find Luca Magnotta after he started posting videos of himself killing kittens online.

[Stephen]

Did you watch it? I was warned not to watch it. You never watched it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's the thing. I recommend it because it's essentially, you get to meet these incredible personalities, the people behind the term cyber sleuth. You like to talk about it, but actually, you meet and hear from those people. And there's one woman who is the.

[Stephen]

Best we can avoid. We can avoid the disturbing video. Video parts, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely.

[Stephen]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

Like, I could fast forward. Okay. I just been. I've been too scared, obviously, but I. Yeah, it's a fucking classic. I need to watch it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, for sure. And also, just this story is the origin of the title of this episode because Magnotta himself went into an Internet cafe wearing sunglasses and makeup and said, bonjour, Internet. So that's who we're actually quoting here.

[Stephen]

Let's change the name because we should quote someone else, not him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's plenty of other hilarious things we say in this episode. We should not be. You know, these are the things we're only a year in. We still haven't learned not to do things like quote the killer himself for the title of the episode.

[Stephen]

I wonder if maybe we should also consider titles that come from the rewind part, this part of the episode for the title change. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's for the rewatch when we start doing video episodes of the rewind it's going to go forever into a circle of hell.

[Stephen]

It's just gonna be one of those. A video of a video of a video happening right now where it's like, oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Basically you standing with a video camera in front of a mirror and then it goes off into a million.

[Stephen]

It's spaceballs, essentially.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is. It is. Okay, so that was my story. So we're gonna go into what's essentially the wrap up of this episode, the old wrap up, where we are now doing good things of the week because we need to counterbalance our discussions of all of this difficulty with. With some good stuff. So it's. We realized that finally it's slowly dawning on us.

[Stephen]

Yeah. I love mine because it's the beginning of Jacuzzi Cat. Gus the Jacuzzi Cat. I think we lived there like two or three years and he ended up becoming one of my best friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We heard a lot about Gus the Jacuzzi Cat over the years. Yep. And this is his premiere.

[Stephen]

Such a special cat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, well, you'll hear Georgia talk all about.

[Stephen]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And everything else that we kind of in this wrap up.

[Stephen]

Can I tell you, I forgot about this. I was. We. We moved in this new place this weekend and it was the first day we moved in. I was walking down this like the staircase and this like, girl with a really cute dog walked up and she was just like, cool girl. Like not cool. You know, she's like some. I would have drinks with a cool girl. And I could have sworn when we walked by each other, she whispered, stay sexy. I am serious. I think she whispered, stay sexy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's creepy.

[Stephen]

Which is so creepy. But I think I'm also. I think I'm also really paranoid. No, I know. I'm also really paranoid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you're definitely really paranoid.

[Stephen]

But it sounded like she said something like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I guess you'll find out.

[Stephen]

So I'm an die. Do you have a positive thing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what I thought you were doing and then it turned into that. I thought you were doing a positive thing when you started that story.

[Stephen]

No, that's not positive. That's nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I realize now it was like a twist of roo at the end.

[Stephen]

My real positive thing. So I'm in this new apartment, a new apartment complex. And there's this thing that happened yesterday and it puts two of my favorite words together as one. And so my positive thing is Jacuzzi cat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh huh.

[Stephen]

There's a fucking giant black cat. And Vince and I were in the Jacuzzi this fucking giant black cat strolls over to the side of the Jacuzzi and, like, I thought I was in fucking Narnia. Like, let me pet him with my wet hand. Like, I just was petting him. And then he had a collar on. I looked at the collar. His name was fucking Gus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

While you're sitting in.

[Stephen]

I got in the Jacuzzi and was about to cry because how happy I am that I get to be in a Jacu. Like, this is my dream. I can't believe this. And then this cat just fucking saunters on a name, Gus. Like, that's a fucking fake. And he was like. I think he was an alien. Like, he was kind of, like, watching the perimeter, but, like, letting me, like, only me pet him. Like, wet. Like a wet hand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's hilarious.

[Stephen]

It was like. It was a dream. It was amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's good news. About your future Jacuzzi experiences.

[Stephen]

Jacuzzi cat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if it's a different one? Next time Annabelle comes up, she's all white.

[Stephen]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With one green eye and one blue eye.

[Stephen]

Dude, Steven and I were just talking about how there's a fucking cat at the fucking cat shelf named Cappuccino who's white with one green eye and one fucking blue eye. Whoa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Named Cappuccino.

[Stephen]

No. Yes. But it's still a white cat with a blue eye and a green eye. Fucking Matrix, man. I don't care what my therapist says about detachment. Fucking issues. Yeah, this is the Matrix, yo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you gotta tap in. You just gotta tap in. What's yours? Um, let. Well, I guess I would say it was going to see the Golden Girls Live, which I had to. I went and did Jamie Lee's podcast. So I was downtown, it was kind of far away, and I bought this ticket. And when I went to buy the ticket for Golden Girls Live, you usually can roll up and buy as many tickets as you want. It's like one of the scrolly things, and I could only roll up to one. So I was like, oh, whatever. I'll just. If I can only have one, I'll have one. So I bought that ticket. Ticket. So it turns out I bought the last ticket. The guy told me, because he was like, you're not on this list. And he, like, checked it a ton of times. And then he went on to the website to get their list. And then he goes. He watched one girl's name disappear and my name took her place.

[Stephen]

And he goes, she literally bought the last ticket.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm like, matrix. Oh, yes.

[Stephen]

Matrix.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I had to sit in a chair in the aisle.

[Stephen]

He.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He goes, here, you can. You can sit right here. And so, like, everyone else is. Is kind of. You know how it is in that room. It's like raised up. And I was like, someone's weird handicapped grandma, where I was just in a chair in the aisle.

[Stephen]

Like in the fire here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, exactly. So the show starts, the lights go down, and they put up the opening screen of the Golden Girls. And then the theme song starts. And everybody starts singing the theme song. No, everyone starts singing the theme song together. And it was. Everyone was like, laughing and smiling. It was like a very beautiful, like, bonding moment. This weird way where it was just really nice and it was, you know, it's like 80 people or something. I would.

[Stephen]

Please bring me next time. I would love to go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we should totally go. It would be so fun. But it was just like a lovely. First of all, I like a group sing. It's always very, like, cathartic. But then everyone knows every word to the theme song to the Golden Girls. And like, some people really belting it out.

[Stephen]

And it brings you back to, like a moment in time. Like, you used. You know, I stayed at home, I was a kid, and I watched that with my family Friday night. That's what you did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was. That was. That's what was going on with everybody. With that whole. It was really lovely.

[Stephen]

They have a mug. I follow Jackie Beat on Instagram.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I bought one of those mugs.

[Stephen]

Does it say, thank you for being a cunt?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's all those guys dressed up as the Golden Girls.

[Stephen]

Thank you for being a cunt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's genius.

[Stephen]

Like, I can't even handle how fucking amazing that is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's super good. So.

[Stephen]

So, you know, that's a great moment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what a great capper.

[Stephen]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was a nice little ending for the old episode. And now here in the rewind episode, we're going to obviously retitle it. Bonjour. Internet's gotta go.

[Stephen]

That's right. So this is such a weird word to see written, but we could call it. We have to reconnoiter. Mm. What a weird word.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I think it's an army style word. You know what I mean?

[Stephen]

That makes sense.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Reconnoitering. It's like, we have to figure this out again.

[Stephen]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, there's Greg Kinnear pops to mind when we're talking about the Ted Bundy conversation.

[Stephen]

Cause he really does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He does.

[Stephen]

And then when we said, cut half of that out and it was 45 minutes of an intro. Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Georgia gave a really good direction to Steven in terms of editing. Just cut half of it out.

[Stephen]

I think it's true. Half of it is shit. Just fucking do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I think the real title needs to be Jacuzzi Cat.

[Stephen]

Yeah, right. What a good boy, Gus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Stephen]

Well, we're not gonna say goodbye because it turns out the old us way back when and Elvis and his new pod loft say it for us. So here's the end of the episode, y'.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All. That's our episode. Thanks for listening. You know, Twitter, Facebook, places, Merch, Instagram, feelings.

[Stephen]

Here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Buy tickets. If you're in a city where it is not sold out, we'd love to see you check what those cities are on the Facebook page. And stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Stephen]

Murdered. Elvis, want a cookie? You want a cookie? Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye.

[Stephen]

Bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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