Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 53: Live at The Orpheum

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 53: Live at The Orpheum"

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Episode: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 53: Live at The Orpheum
Release Date: July 16, 2025
Network: Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this special rewind episode, hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark revisit Episode 53, originally titled "Live at The Orpheum," which debuted on January 26, 2017. The episode captures the energy and excitement of their first major live show in Los Angeles, coinciding with the Women's March. As they reminisce about the event, they share updated insights and commentary, blending their characteristic blend of true crime and comedy.

“This is exactly right.”
— Karen Kilgariff [00:01]

“Every Wednesday, we recap our old podcasts with all new commentary, updates, and insights.”
— Georgia Hardstark [00:25]

Live at The Orpheum

Karen and Georgia reflect on the chaotic and vibrant atmosphere of their live performance at The Orpheum Theater. They humorously discuss technical hiccups, such as the loud intro, and share anecdotes about interacting with fans and handling unexpected moments on stage.

“Madonna said fuck on CNN. It started. You know, that's been the cue that we've all been waiting for this whole time, man.”
— Karen Kilgariff [02:11]

They also delve into their on-stage banter, wardrobe choices, and the overall experience of performing live in a city as dynamic as Los Angeles.

“We're geniuses.”
— Georgia Hardstark [00:48]

Karen’s Story: The LA Ripper

Karen presents the chilling tale of Otto Wilson, known as the LA Ripper, a serial killer active in the 1940s. She narrates his gruesome crimes, including the brutal slashing and dismemberment of his victims, and his eventual capture and execution.

“She said, I got my horoscope told. Wednesday's my lucky day.”
— Karen Kilgariff [20:40]

Wilson’s troubled past, his violent tendencies, and the police investigation that ultimately led to his downfall are explored in detail. Karen emphasizes the horror of his actions and the impact they had on the community.

“He was mad that she was like basically being kind of greedy.”
— Georgia Hardstark [21:59]

Georgia’s Story: Greystone Mansion and the Doheny Murders

Georgia recounts the mysterious Doheny murders associated with the Greystone Mansion in Beverly Hills. She delves into the history of the mansion, its original owner Edward Doheny, and the alleged cover-up of his son Ned’s involvement in the murders of two women during the Teapot Dome scandal era.

“And the district attorney then hit him with eight more felony child molestation charges.”
— Dave Anthony [65:55]

The narrative touches on the possible motives behind the murders, including political corruption and personal vendettas, and how the case remains shrouded in suspicion and unanswered questions.

“It's supposed to be cool, beautiful. But it's also supposed to be haunted.”
— Karen Kilgariff [45:11]

Guest Segment: Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds from The Dollop

Guests Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds join Karen and Georgia to share their own hometown murder stories. Dave narrates the case of Walter E. Ellis, Milwaukee’s North Side Strangler, detailing Ellis’s violent spree from 1986 to 2007, his evasion of justice, and eventual apprehension due to DNA evidence lagging behind his crimes.

“Between 1986 and 2007, 42 prostitutes were killed in Milwaukee. Only 31% of those cases have been solved.”
— Dave Anthony [95:20]

Gareth adds his perspective, contributing additional insights and humorous takes on the grim subject matter, ensuring the conversation remains engaging and informative.

“This strangler, that's fucked up.”
— Georgia Hardstark [95:53]

Conclusion and Reflections

As the episode wraps up, Karen and Georgia discuss the challenges and humorous moments of hosting guest storytellers. They reflect on the balance between covering serious true crime stories and maintaining their comedic edge, acknowledging the depth and darkness inherent in recounting such tales.

“That was an awesome murder.”
— Unknown [77:15]

They also brainstorm potential new titles for the episode, playfully referencing memorable moments and jokes from their live performance and discussions.

“That's a ripoff from a 30 Rock joke, okay?”
— Karen Kilgariff [98:40]

Notable Quotes

• “I have nothing to say because I'm sick of hearing men talk.”
  — Georgia Hardstark [03:47]

• “Love it. Love it.”
  — Georgia Hardstark [07:43]

• “He was mad that she was like basically being kind of greedy.”
  — Georgia Hardstark [21:59]

• “You guys need to have a team meeting.”
  — Dave Anthony [49:25]

Final Thoughts

"Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 53: Live at The Orpheum" offers listeners a nostalgic yet fresh look into a pivotal moment in My Favorite Murder’s history. Through engaging storytelling, humorous interactions, and insightful commentary, Karen and Georgia successfully transport both new and longtime fans back to an unforgettable live event, enriched with personal anecdotes and the enduring camaraderie that defines their podcast.

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Note: Advertisements and non-content segments from the transcript were omitted to maintain focus on the core discussions and narratives.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every Wednesday, we recap our old podcasts with all new commentary, updates, and insights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And today, we're recapping the epic episode 53, which we named Pretty spot on. Right on the nose. Live at the Orpheum.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is kind of crazy that this episode is coming out mere days after we announce our tour.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The plan we made eight years ago.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is finally coming together.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's coming to fruition. We are geniuses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This episode came out on January 26, 2017.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's listen to the intro, everyone, of episode 53. Come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on, come on. Hi. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very, very loud. It's a little bit too loud.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You got. What'd you say?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a little too loud. It was a little bit too loud.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is banana. I'm so glad you guys didn't go to the marches and came here instead. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, it's pretty cool that we decided to do our live first huge live LA show the same day that the revolution started. Am I right? Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi. Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It started.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like one dad is like, wait, where the fuck am I at?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, get. Wake up, dad. It started.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking see you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Madonna said fuck on cnn. It started. You know, that's been the cue that we've all been waiting for this whole time, man. That's my Madonna. That's the Madonna I remember.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's Karen and that's Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. Hi. And we're my favorite murder stupid. That's stup. Let's never do that again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We never introduce ourselves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. We never say we're my favorite murderer. That's super lame.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, I'm gonna fall. Like, there's a weird. Let's move this over.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's go ahead and just take five minutes to make this our own scene.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So thank you guys so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, here we go. Let's do a. Okay, I guess. Tell me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess. Of all the signs I saw today, the one I saw that I loved the best was the one with a picture of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Did you see that one? No. Where it was like, all you fives better listen when a 10 is talking. Oh, yeah, God, that's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck. Dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a new rating system, and I couldn't be happier.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit. There were a lot of good signs today. I think one of being like a guy was holding up a sign that was just like, I have nothing to say because I'm sick of hearing men talk. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on so many tweets and responses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Call a response.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's so many things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How you feeling, Kara? I don't. Let's get deep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, look, here's the truth. This is the dress I wore to the New York live show. Some of you may recognize it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I have to tell on myself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I pay attention to myself. I might have actually. Might have worn this to something and I just don't remember.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, let's. Why don't you take. Stand up and let's take a look at it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Do a walk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's both do a walk. It's fun. No, no. Just walk it out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, I will. Because. Look, look.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The only reason I'm doing this is because if my sister saw the shoes I was wearing with this dress, she would be so livid at me. She's always like, take the time. Buy a $250 shoe. You deserve it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The fuck is wrong with it? That's like onesie twosies pass each other. 1, 2, 3, 4. They do. My sister's actually.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Better. Fives better. Listen when these tens are talking. And by that, I mean the size of my shoe. That's right. I bought a size too big at Target because they didn't have nines.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, sometimes you just gotta. My feet are broken because when I was younger, I was like, size six looks cuter than size seven.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My actual real life sister is here. No, don't. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's get a spotlight on her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm Barbie at my head. That's right, Lee, you mother. No, Lee. Hey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She made you who you are today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She did. A broken human being. Lee, I love you. You're the best. Here we go. You have the best kid I've ever met in my life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I do have a present for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Why? You can't keep sneaking presents at me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I certainly can. This one is the best. Because the last episode we talked about, I talked about going to see Golden Girls live, which is the best show ever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, that's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's cheer for everything. Casitas del Campo, Drew Joji, Jackie Beach.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sherry Vine, Sam Pankinpo, Everyone, after the party. After party, go there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it'll be the after after party. They're closed. We'll stand around in the parking lot. But. So I told Georgia that at the end of the last podcast, and then she told me about the mug they make. And it is a mug that has the cast of the Golden Girls live on it. So it's all Those guys dressed up like their characters in the Golden Girls. And on the other side, side of the mug, one side is that picture, and the other side, it says, thank you for being a cunt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you did not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, here's the thing. So Georgia was like. She told me about that mug, but I had already bought her the mug at that live show. But then had second thoughts because I was like, wait, is she gonna think I'm passively aggressively calling her a cunt? Like, oh, here. Thanks for being a cunt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I don't think that deeply. Okay, good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thanks for being a cunt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. What if I just went smash?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Smashed it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. It's anarchy tonight, ladies and gentlemen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I am a cunt and I'm proud of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, me too. It's fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. How do you feel about people who bring their babies to protests?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't give a shit about anything. The world is about to blow up. You can fucking bring a dead body to a protest. Just show up, show up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love it. Love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry. That was a strong reaction.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I live it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I haven't had any protein in a couple hours. I'm about to go off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm doing this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, girl.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it might have dust in it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Cause I actually. In thinking I shouldn't give it to you, I ran it through the washing machine. I mean, the dishwasher. The dishwasher.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, God. Really? That's so thoughtful. Oh. Cause you were gonna keep it. Not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was gonna keep it. I was gonna keep it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was gonna keep it. And then imagine my chills when you were like, they have this mug. And I was like, what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were fake. What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that sounds so weird. Well, thank you. That's so kind of you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're welcome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were gonna. Karen was like, let's bring signs out. And I was like, what kind of signs? And then, like, we have this giant Elvis head that we were given at the Chicago thing. Jay Graves. What's up? And I thought we should say, you be quiet. I think I was like, well, what if we write keep your hands off my cookies? Because that would be funny. But I didn't do it because I needed a nap.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, some people are dedicated and they craft and they glue and glitter. And then some people got asleep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Some people. Some people tell a friend who's having a meetup before they go to the protest. Some people tell them that they're going to show up and they can't go to the protest because of anxiety. But they'll drive everyone to the train station and then some people can't wake up before 7:30. And then. Don't do that. And then just promise they'll take them to lunch next week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How many people were involved in this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

None. Me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because there was. Were you all of them in that one?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Uh huh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ok.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I'm going to lunch alone next week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's going to be Right. Should we start?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It feels like we should. Don't you feel like listening to a couple don't you feel like listening to a couple stories of thank all of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You for being a friend?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. That's for sure. Who's traveled down the road and back again?

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who's next?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who's first? Oh, oh, is it me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here we go. Hey. Oh, I gotta chill the fuck out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh man. I wish I could explain the like sweaty, excited sunburnt from the march crowd that was there that day. Oh yeah. They were already pumped up from the march.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Such good energy. Such good energy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone was dehydrated so everyone got drunk faster.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like people march down into the streets of downtown and then into the Orpheum Theater. That was the energy we got.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's interesting is I have no memory of what dress I wore that night. Although I'm thinking it was when I was on talk show. The game show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's. That's exactly it. I think you borrowed it from the incredible fashion person on the set of that show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From Akira.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okira Banks, who's my stylist. Talk show. The game show's wardrobe person. I didn't wear dresses though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. On the show. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like I think. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was probably like a black dress with pockets.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Does the vintage one you have have pockets? That beautiful little like shift?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't remember.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause I'm picturing it, but I'm really just picturing a black dress. So it could be anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, here's the thing I really repeated a lot. They were like L.L. bean dresses that were like, hey, lady that mostly likes to garden but sometimes is forced to go to a dinner party or a funeral. Or a funeral. You can get a nice colored scarf and put it on this black dress with pockets. It's like kind of body con. Is that what they call it? But it's not too crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it went in at the waist. So it was. It gives you a waist. It gives you the like curves you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Want some nice darts in the front and the beautiful pockets.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We need more of those. We need more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love being ladies, ladies and gentlemen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We need our own pockets. Yeah. That show was absolutely incredible. My sister was there, Leigh was in the house. I was so nervous because it's our hometown show, which feels so different. And ever since this show, I have been nervous to do a show. Like whenever we do shows in la, there's something about it that's like harder than New York. It's harder than like, you know, Chicago or Texas. It's like it's our people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And it's also show business people who, you know, comics learn this very quickly when they come and do sets in la. No one laughs because everyone's in the business. So you don't wanna seem like an audience member.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's the disease of Los Angeles. Like everyone's too cool for school, therefore you're like, oh no, we're gonna be facing down, you know, a bunch of blase, blase people as we're trying to get up. They're like, oh, you have everybody do. But of course our audience isn't like that. And all we had to do was be like, how about that? Women's March, ladies and gentlemen. And then we were off to the races.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So let's hop into the LA stories. This is Karen's story about the LA Ripper.

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

See ahs.com contracts for coverage details including limit amounts, fees, limitations and exclusions. Goodbye. So I decided because we're downtown and it's such a rich and storied past that this city has and we're in it, we're sitting in it right now that I would do an old downtown old timey murder. And right, why not So I decided to do the murder of the La Ripper. Ever heard of that guy?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. They're all his grandchildren out there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like, how dare you speak of my grandpappy that way?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we gotta tell me everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. This was a guy named Otto Wilson. He was born in Shelbyville, Indiana. Graduated from high school in 1930. He moved to Indianapolis. He served in the Navy in 1941. And then he was given a medical discharge after his wife complained to the San Diego naval authorities about his unnatural impulses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's all it takes? He wants to touch my butt. Yeah, don't touch your butt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it turns out that before she left him ultimately, and I guess after she made that complaint, he had cut her butt with a razor. There is a quote in this article I stole. I just. It was straight up, like cut and paste plagiarism from two things that I then forgot to take the actual names of the people who wrote these articles.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's my favorite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So there's some very flowery language that is not my own. I'll find it and say it later with an apology and it'll be boring. But this was one of the sentences that I love, that I cut and paste onto here in the orphanage. In the Navy. In his last months of drifting, women had always subtly domineered over him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry, but like, fucking let it happen, bro. What's the problem with that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get into being domineered over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We know our shit. Chill the fuck out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's kind of hot to be domineered over sometimes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He probably sucked at fucking. And she was in the ship was like, can you touch me in my, like normal area? Like dominate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dominate. Nope, I'm. Undo the razor. Turn around.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, fuck you, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it all kind of. He was on a bender, his wife left him, things were bad for several years. He. On November 15, 1944. He had been on. He had been on a two day bender at that point. And at some point in that time, he had bought himself a butcher knife. Fun. So what, did he just go into, like Macy's or something? Kind of drunk. You know how you do with hot dogs at Pink's, but with a butcher knife.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You don't even need a license anymore to get a butcher knife.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. You can just fucking get them willy nilly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can fucking register for one at a wedding. Have you done. Yeah, we've both done that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. So he was at a bar and he met a woman named Virginia Lee Griffin. It Was on Main Street. Yes. Dangerously close to where we are now, but quite a long time ago. She told him her name was Virgie. And she's described as a big young woman with lipstick smeared too heavily on her lips.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A fucking asshole.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean. Sounds familiar, though. I'm into it. Hey. Hi. She was married, but her husband was away. And she liked a good time. Who doesn't? So they drank together, and then they decided to go somewhere more private. And he very gallantly held her arm as they crossed the street in the rain like this. Not like Sweetly All Nails. Yeah, he has really weirdly long nails. What if it's the guy from the Guinness Book of World Records with the longest nails ever? And he's like, do you want to go somewhere more private?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know what we're talking about anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they went to the old Barclay Hotel, which at that time, I think was relatively new.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It wasn't called that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I hate to shit on someone else's writing that I'm stealing. But I think it was pretty new back then. So apparently they say that she was overheard as saying when she walked in. And this is the way it's written. So I'm gonna do a little voice for it, please, if you don't mind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Always don't mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's the quote. Don't clap her. Then I won't. Wanna do it? Haven't you. Don't you know me yet? So she looked up unsteadily as they walked into the hotel, and she said, I got my horoscope told. Wednesday's my lucky day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aw, honey. Virgie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's how you know the astrology isn't real. Because if this doesn't prove it, I don't know what else you need. So they registered as Mr. And Mrs. O.S. wilson of Steubenville, Indiana. And after they'd been in the room, they had a couple drinks from a bottle of whiskey he brought. She demanded more money from him. So the funny part at that point is that they hadn't really mentioned that she had gotten money before that. So she was a sex worker or a married lady that liked to have fun. Maybe that's the way they said it back then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fair enough, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get yours.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what he said to the cops was, somehow, I got sore. I socked her and then I cut her. I was going to dismember her body and get rid of it, but I found that I couldn't do it, so I left.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, what a gentleman. What A fucking asshole.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I got sore. I socked her. I mean, that's how you know it's not from now. So he lol.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he punched her in the face so hard that he killed her, right? No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you. What? Go. No, I was listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, he was mad that she was like basically being kind of greedy and like, meh, you know, and he. What he would do was strangle them and they would like pass out and then he would cut them and kill them. So when he left the hotel room, he gave the maid a dollar and he told her not to disturb his wife. And then later on, of course, they found the body and it was sprawled on the bed and she had been slashed. Her body had been slashed open from her throat to her vagina. And her entrails were pulled out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ew.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It gets worse. If you want to try to really orchestrate the reactions and kind of tighten it up and get it all together, there's no orchestra. Her breasts had been cut off and an arm and a leg, they were partly severed. And the murder weapon, a razor sharp carving knife, lay near the body.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck, man. That guy was like halfway through and he's like, I can't fucking do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, I can't do it anymore. I fucking. I'm tired. I'm tired.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How many times have we said leave the eyes and the boobies on?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They won't listen. So he leaves the hotel after that carnage and he goes to the Million Dollar Theater to see Boris Karloff in the Walking Dead. I don't know, it's just fun to make some references.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know why I'm pointing at everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you know, you. You love that movie and place and thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking sickos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So when the movie was done, he went to another bar and he went and met a woman named Lillian Johnson. Uh huh. And he took her to the Joyce Hotel where they registered as Mr. And Mrs. O.S.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Watson.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Same day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stop it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Same day. So he realized he. It was the same situation where he gets into the room and then he told the cops like, I don't know, I just got mad. I just got mad and I hit her. But of course she was found in the exact same condition that Virgie was found in. But apparently while he beat her up. And then he realized that he had left his knife at the other hotel. So he. He shaved and then. And she was like unconscious on the floor. He shaves and then he takes the straight razor that he just used to shave and kills her and starts to cut her Up. Then on the way out of this hotel, he stops by the desk clerk and says, my wife is sleeping. Please don't disturb her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Code for I just ordered my. This chick I just met.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So witnesses from both hotels gave the cops similar descriptions. They took that information, they created a dragnet all around where we are right now. And one cop is in a bar and he sees a man matching Otto's description in a booth in deep conversation with a brunette in a tight red dress.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, honey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he was. He was gonna do it again. He had lit his cigarette with a matchbook, and the matchbook said, the Barclay Hotel. And his hands had blood on them. And the cop was like, excuse me, I'd love to speak with you for a second.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Give it a week. Like, chill. The.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He can't. He simply has no chill. Okay. So they bring him in. He immediately confesses to both killings. He admits his compulsion toward bloodlust. And he told the police that his first wife left him because it would creep up on her when she was naked and slash at her buttocks with a razor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the fucking fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that's not cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, one time you're like. Like, goodbye. Like, what the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He told the cops that his favorite pastime was kissing and licking the blood away while he apologized for his odd behavior. There's so many other pastimes. Like, there's sailboarding and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you know how great, like, naps are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, Naps, raccoons, anything. Look up. Like raccoons in the encyclopedia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Raccoons are, like, amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They wash their own food with their little hands.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. YouTube videos of ravens talking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, they can talk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They talk better than parrots.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. It's crazy. And no one. No one knows.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone here is like, why don't you know? Like, it's true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is so true. Anyhow, look, I'm gonna wrap it up by saying that Dr. Victor Parkin, the defense psychiatrist and a member of the Los Angeles Lunacy Commission.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's a thing. That's gonna be a thing again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we gotta bring it back, you guys. That's the next March. This man testified that Otto was in a semi automatic state and he had no feeling automatic. Oh, come on. Way up top on that one. So fast. No, so fast. So terrible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good. Thank you. He was in a dreamlike state. He didn't realized he was butchering a fellow human. I disagree. Poor baby. And basically, they said he was crazy. And so then Otto Steve Wilson. I didn't notice that before. Otto Steve Wilson was Executed in the gas chamber of San Quentin in prison in September of 1946.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, it says right here. But his. His son, Otto Steve Ray Morris Jr. Oh my God. Is still alive today. Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I noticed that Stephen would often scrape up against my butt with sharp things. Enough of that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, that was awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thanks. I appreciate it, guys. I didn't write it, I just read it and interpreted it. Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we're back. Karen, I know it's an old story, so do you have any updates?

[Karen Kilgariff]

None.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So let's get into Georgia's story. We just turned around. I mean, it was so old, you know, It's a nightmare, kind of. This is one of the OG serial killers of la. And when you are a person that follows true climb, you're like, oh, I know what you mean by that because it's 44 in this year. But then it's like we're about to go on to some horrifying serial killing in the Southland.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, everyone. Yeah, that and then let's go to the Pacific Northwest where the serial killer's children are being serial killers themselves. It's just. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Although you know, Georgia's story goes even earlier than that. So should we get into that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is Georgia's story about the Greystone mansion and the Doheny murders.

[Gareth Reynolds]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

And if the covered item can't be fixed, they'll help replace it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They even offer video chat as a benefit to some plans so you can connect with a repair expert and troubleshoot the issue in real time. You can't control when things break down, but you can be prepared.

[Karen Kilgariff]

American Home Shield has over 50 years of experience, so, yeah, they've seen it all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you can save money on a plan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, mine is also vintage because there's a lot of sad crimes today, but not a lot of cool ones, man. Yeah, yeah. Just like a bunch of shitty shit. All right, so excuse me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That wasn't real.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you want some die code?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, thank you. Greystone Mansion, am I wrong? Also known as the Doheny Murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Am I wrong?

[Georgia Hardstark]

People I'm not wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You just said Doheny Mansion. Am I wrong?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Never. Because three people were like, yes, yes. And I was asking them, am I wrong?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, you're never wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the Grayson, the Greystone mansion is a 55 room mansion in Beverly Hills. It's built in 1928. At the time, it cost over $4 million to build and was the most expensive home in California.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it was also known as the Doheny Mansion because it was a gift from the oil tycoon Edward Doheny to his fucking kind of shitty son, Ned. What's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ned. Why are you talking. Ned, Ned.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, Ned might not be shitty, but you know what I'm saying, If.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He'S a Doheny, let's not be rude to Ned. He'll end us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ned is a. Here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, oh, this is about Ned?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit. I spoke too soon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You don't know. So Edward Doheny, the older dude, comes from a poor Irish immigrant background.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do not point at me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I was like, remember that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was only two generations ago.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You did that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I did it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. So in Edward's late, like in the late 30s, which gives me hope with my life, he becomes. He was super poor. And then he, like, becomes a California oil tycoon. He drills.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can do it. It.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I could do that, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, there's oil everywhere. You can find it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get in there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he, you know. You know on, like, Los Angele, when you're on your way to the airport and there are those, like, old dinosaurs. Yeah, like oil things. Like, he's the guy who found those.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, the Ellie Confidential ones. Yes, yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And like the tar pits. Like, that's all. That's all him. Dude, he made tarpon. He made the tarpon.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He sunk those dinosaur bones in there, huh?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he becomes the first successful oil well guy. And, like, There Will Be Blood is like, that's basically him, okay? And he makes a fucking fortune. And then he eventually owns one of the largest oil companies in the world. And this is the 1920s where everything was cool. So his son Ned is living off the money and, like, you know, pretending to be a businessman. And then in 1913, I think he's in, in his late teens, early 20s, he meets a man named Hugh Plunkett. And don't fucking lie. And then at the time, Hugh is working at a gas station near the house owned by, like, friends. And Hugh and Ned become good friends, and Hugh starts working for the Doheny family and eventually becomes Ned's personal secretary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh huh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he travels with him on business and they're like fucking tight as shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. No, I get it. Ned rolled up to the gas station one day, he's like, see that gas? My dad made that wash my windows.

[Georgia Hardstark]

According to a family friend, their relationship was more than that of friends. And another said that they were like brothers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Brothers that made out all the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fair enough. So in November 1921, the two of them check into a suite in this fucking place. And then NED takes out $100,000, which is about 10 million in today's money, which I fucking love hearing the. Oh, everyone gasped.

[Karen Kilgariff]

People love money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

10 million, like that's like. We could like, we could like retire for five years off of that. Okay, so Ned takes it out of his bank account and then he and hugh go to D.C. they meet with this dude who's the secretary of the Harding administration. His name is Albert Fall. So this dude, Albert Fall, is a friend of the older dude, Doheny. And they hand him the money and in return, Fall gives them a promissory note. And then fucking. I slept through history, literally. And fucking was on drugs. Okay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically there's some kind of an oily business deal going down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You guys remember the words Teapot Dome scandal? This is it. I don't fucking know, okay? Something happens. Fall gives Doheny a bunch of shit and a bunch of oil stuff in exchange for the hundred bucks. So it's like super shady and shit. And then so Albert Fall is eventually charged with. With conspiracy to defraud the United States as part of the Teapot Dome scandal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's not a problem anymore, apparently.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Give everyone money and go fuck yourself. The hearing, Ned. So Ned the son has to testify against his pops. And he says that he's like, no, we didn't do anything wrong. And Ned and Hugh, his fucking boyfriend. Boyfriend, they're implicated and. Da, da, da, da. Okay, so at the end, the dad gets acquitted, kind of. And so as Ned's loyalty, he builds him the Greystone Manor. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit. All right, I forgot about that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Remember that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're back. We're back in at the Greystone Manor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Remember that? Biggest house you've ever heard of in your life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I just tell you really quick? I went and saw a play done in the Greystone Manor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you didn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Where you walk around, the play is packed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You went to the Greystone Manor?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they do a thing. I think maybe it's for Christmas or something. But you walk around like you're at this party and then the actors are around you. I hate shit like that so much. I think it's so embarrassing to be that close to, like, an actor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello, my lady.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have a vest on. I was like, oh, don't look at me. But anyway, yeah, but the house itself was lovely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's amazing. No, that's fucking awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, all right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Then Karen Kilgariff was there.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Finally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. So Hugh starts going fucking crazy at this point because he's like, I have to. I'm just like a poor dude and I have to fucking testify against maybe my lover and his pops and blah, blah, blah. Okay, so on February 16, 1929, Hugh. This is the gas station, dude. He lets himself into the main house because he had a key. And he used to hang out in this, like, room like it was his bedroom. Sometimes I'm gonna belch really soon.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so Ned and Hugh, they meet in this guest bedroom. And Hughes flipping the fuck out, apparently. And then around 11 o', clock, Lucy, the wife of Ned, who's like a staunch Catholic, hearsay. A shot while she's in the living room reading magazines. And who does she call to be like, I heard a shot. The police?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, doctor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The family doctor. Oh, who are you going to say? Batman?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no. I just say rich people never call the cops.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, call the doctor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Call your lawyer. You can. You call your.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Anyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And there's so many people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The thing is, help me an uncle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not gonna name people. Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he arrived. Okay, so the doctor says to the cops that he hears Hugh yelling at them from this, like, place not to come into the room. And there's a second shot. And when the doctor goes in, he finds both men and their whole story is that Ned had been shot by Hugh and Hugh had shot himself. Like a murder suicide. And then I wrote suspicious shit. I really.

[Unknown]

It's right there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, okay, here's some suspicious shit. Ned's gun, the fucking Doheny dude's gun was the murder weapon. Super weird, right? And before the police were called, the bodies had been moved from their original position, and the body and the police weren't called until 2:00am so the first shot is at 11:00pm and the fucking cops are called 2aM Da, da, da.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they were moving stuff around?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, yeah, the fucking bodies were moved.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the detective. And so what it looked like is that Ned was shot by Doheny in the head. And then Doheny who had a lit cigarette in his hand, had, like, landed on the gun after killing himself. Suspicious shit, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But there were powder burns on the hole in Doheny's head, which means the gun had been less than three inches away from his head and he killed himself, which usually points to suicide. And there was no powder burns on Hue, which every fucking person here is ever watching a fucking discovery ID thing knows that, like, you check for powder burns.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's who shoots the fucking gun. There weren't any. Da, da, da.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

But within hours, the DA's office holds a press conference and, like, no, this is a murder suicide. And, like, this poor person killed this rich person and, like, closed the fucking case. No autism, autopsies, nothing. Which is like, you're in charge of the media at that point. Okay, so here are some theories. One was that it was a murder suicide, but that Ned and Hugh had been together. And that Ned and Hugh had been called to testify on the bribery trials, but that Ned had been assured immunity and Hugh had not. And he felt betrayed, which is true. Ned was assured immunity against his father. He was not. They were throwing him under the bus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. They were gonna make the poor guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Take the fall, this dude for Albert fall, Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The other was that Ned and Hugh were lovers. Okay. And that they had a fight and that Lucy caught them. The wife of Ned caught them and killed them herself, which is why she didn't call the cops immediately. And what supports either of the lover. That they were lover stories and that they killed each other in a lover's quarrel is that they were both buried in Forest Lawn, which is a secular cemetery, but the Doheny family were devout Catholics. And you don't. You can't bury someone in a Catholic cemetery if they killed themselves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah, that's right. Because suicide is a. What do you call it? A number one. Saints.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, Like a number.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cardinal Venial.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Catholic nest. Who went there?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Baruch Hatan. Okay, so, okay. Or that they were lovers and everyone knew it. And so they were buried, like, within a few feet of each other in this secular fucking place. All right. Da, da, da, da. Okay. And so they were buried together and close by. And so no one really knows why they killed each other or who killed who and why, but it seems very suspicious. And also because of the sympathy that they had for Doheny having his son being killed, his investigation was basically called off, which makes everyone think that maybe the senior Doheny fucking killed both of them. Oh, whoa, to get them to shut the fuck up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because he was getting off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, because he got off because of his kid getting murdered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically anybody in that family could have murdered them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, essentially.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Christmas was fun, I bet. At their house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so now it's a city park now. And so everyone, let's meet there tomorrow. You can go there now and just have tours and just chill and have a fucking picnic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's pretty amazing. It's an amazing house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's supposed to be cool, beautiful. But it's also supposed to be haunted.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I hope so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If all that happened, dude.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. Nice one. Hey, look. Those are our murders. Thanks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that it? Are we done?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, we now have some special guests to bring out because, as you know. Yes, it's very exciting. This is the portion of our show that we normally do hometown murders. And so we thought it would be fun to have our two friends. Our brother podcast. You might want to say from the dollop, Dave Anthony and Gary Reynolds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yay. Good over there. You get over there.

[Dave Anthony]

Hi.

[Unknown]

Hi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why don't you surround us? Yeah, you get that and you get that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really take the stage.

[Dave Anthony]

Thank you.

[Unknown]

So, Ned, and who's the other guy?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What? Oh. Heel Q.

[Unknown]

They were totally. They were totally. Because someone came in and saw him and then they weren't. They killed them. And then they put their clothes on and moved them around. You for sure about that? They moved them around.

[Dave Anthony]

They put their clothes on after Murder dress.

[Unknown]

Why else would you be moving them around?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, for sure.

[Unknown]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All of it. I didn't want to say that. Cause I'm not a fucking.

[Unknown]

Yeah, they were totally getting it on.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, you've been clear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We all have theories. Dave. Okay, we are back. Are there updates for this story?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Again, no updates because it's too old. Vintage. We call it vintage. But you can go see the Manor, the interactive play that you uncomfortable. Karen. Obviously this is great advertisement for them. Yes, you can go see it. It's performed annually, typically each January through February at the Greystone Mansion. It's an immersive room to room performance inside the mansion. I mean, that sounds awesome. Telling the dramatized version of the Doheny Murders. It's become a local institution, often selling out before even general release.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen, I give this an A in terms of performance concept. You're in the Mansion. Whatever. What makes me uncomfortable is as a person who was like a Dr. Major.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm like, how come she got that part instead of me? There's all that kind of stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Play it like this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. You're outside of it, but when you're actually at it, you just are really in this situation, watching these people. It's very, very cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's such a cool gimmick. I wish there were more places that did stuff like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The immersive style of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, like, it's cool. Yeah. So you can find more [e-mail] all right. And then we had very special guest, our dear friend and supporter of the podcast from the beginning, Dave Anthony from the Dollop. And he is going to talk about Ken McElroy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now, a detractor of this podcast from the beginning is Gareth Reynolds, who's also from the Dollop. No, just kidding. But here's the producerial decision that I still can't believe that we made. We had both of them tell stories. What the fuck? It was way too long. No one needs four stories. No, I think we were just, like, excited and we were there, and we were just like, the more the merrier. But I feel bad because. Cause by the time Gareth was telling his story, everyone's like, shut the fuck up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, my butt's numb.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's stop doing this, everyone. I saw a lot of Twitter. We didn't drive up there to listen to two men talk, you know, on the, like, Women's March Day, where I was just like, oh, okay, sorry. Oh, that makes sense.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If we had had, like, a strong female lead come on stage and galvanize. What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, well, sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was back when we were self producing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Dave and Gareth, apologies. We just set them up for failure. But they did a great job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They did a great job and we had a great time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. That's all that matters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We should just had one less story. Okay, here we go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We heard you guys have hometown murders.

[Unknown]

I don't have a hometown murder. So what? So, you know, last time I was on, I did my hometown murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So there's a. There's a murderer that everybody who listens to Dollop has always been like, you have to do this one. And I'm like, we don't do murders.

[Dave Anthony]

In a couple ways.

[Unknown]

What do you mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mean?

[Dave Anthony]

We add, don't murder people, and we don't cover them.

[Unknown]

Oh, nice. We've actually started murdering people.

[Dave Anthony]

That's news.

[Unknown]

Well, I'll bring you in on it.

[Dave Anthony]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys need to have a team meeting.

[Unknown]

We should have a meeting.

[Dave Anthony]

It's been too long. Turns out we're not communicating.

[Unknown]

I've been killing our fans.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, well, we should catch up more often, I think.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know how you keep losing one fan a week?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Here's the murder. Okay, so I'm gonna tell you guys. So my uncle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, wait, Dave.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry.

[Unknown]

I'm so sorry. Yeah, go ahead. I am.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just remembered something.

[Unknown]

That I used to slash your buttocks when we dated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's the scars.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How dare you speak of our secrets this way. At the Orium. Know that you guys did that. We did the Tylenol murders.

[Unknown]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then we did the Bagwan Shuiv Rajneesh. Which I didn't know that you guys had just. Yes, they did it. We had the same time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't fucking ride our coattails, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Unknown]

We put out the Tylon on, like, within hours of each other, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Unknown]

So. But you guys did it from the murder perspective, and I did. We did a different perspective that the. That the fucking guy kept admitting to it and he didn't do it. Like the guy who they thought did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Crazy guy. Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

It's some guy out there who's still out there. That guy's still out there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it's fucking.

[Unknown]

He's like, staring at Excedrin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the Yima Bomber dude. Dude.

[Unknown]

Like, he's ready to go, that guy. You think It's a Unabomber?

[Georgia Hardstark]

100%. Yes.

[Unknown]

It could totally be the Unibomber.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the Unabomber, I promise you. Koresh, right?

[Unknown]

Nope, not Koresh. Kresh is dead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

100% the Unabomber. That is why I love you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Unabomber type.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bundy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

None of you are here for facts. Don't come at me. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm embarrassed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So sorry I interrupted you. Anyway, Crash.

[Unknown]

Crash didn't make it. He burned up in a house with some people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's an angel.

[Unknown]

I believe in Kazinski.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kazinski. Same thing.

[Unknown]

And don't people also think of it? He is the. The San Francisco Zodiac.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's stupid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That. That's.

[Unknown]

That's stupid, right? It's Ted Cruz.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're going to solve it all tonight.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's really. We're knocking a lot down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, Dave. Tell yours. Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

Okay. Karen knows what mine is. I should have brought it up. Should have had on my iPad Ken McIlroy. No, that's not right. No, it is. It's McElroy. I didn't even notice that when I was writing it. M C E L r o y McElroy. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're all on drugs.

[Unknown]

His name is killing it.

[Dave Anthony]

Should have seen that coming.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

He's born in 1934. He was the 15th of 16 children.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is he a rabbit? The fuck?

[Dave Anthony]

Listen, it was just like how Caviar's birthed. Run. Be free, children. All of you, now.

[Unknown]

Oh, my God. That is just like. The baby comes out and he's like, let's do it again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you even, like, know your parents if you're the 15 of 16?

[Dave Anthony]

No. Your eldest brother's like, I'm called dad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So.

[Unknown]

They lived in a four bedroom house. So let's do some math.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Unknown]

Yeah. That's not great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

32 people to a room.

[Dave Anthony]

That's exactly right. Karen, your math is exactly right.

[Unknown]

He never learned to read well. He never really had a. A great job. He quit school in the fifth grade.

[Dave Anthony]

I wonder why he never got a good job.

[Unknown]

I don't know.

[Dave Anthony]

Are there any facts about that?

[Unknown]

I don't know. They lived outside of Skidmore, Missouri. A town of about 450 people has two paved streets.

[Dave Anthony]

They were all of them. It's our town.

[Unknown]

Two paved streets, no traffic lights. One small mom and pop store, a gas station cafe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's.

[Unknown]

That's it. That's the whole deal. So he started stealing animals. He started stealing animals before he was 18 years old. He bought an old sedan and he took the back seat out and he put plywood down. Oh, and then he'd drive around at night and steal pigs.

[Dave Anthony]

All right.

[Unknown]

I mean, okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, he had a plan.

[Unknown]

It's Missouri. You know, it's classic Missouri for some reason.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like, when you picture, like, dogs or cats, it's like, oh, God. And it's like he stole pigs. And it's like. This is funny. I like this story.

[Unknown]

Well, he would sell them. He would take. He would steal them and sell them to someone who wanted to buy pigs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's better than killing pigs. I mean.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah. No, he wasn't taking them out and killing them. He was like, you want to buy them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Eventually kill them, though.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I mean, people are eating these pigs at the end. At the end. The story's not great for the pigs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just want to feed them peppermints and put that on YouTube.

[Unknown]

I'm not sure you've ever been to a farm. So he married for the first time at the age of 18. She was 16. They moved briefly to Denver, but he couldn't keep a job there, so he and his wife moved back. He started hanging out with two of his raccoon hunting buddies. You guys earlier was talking about raccoons. Yeah, you're making this sound cute. They are horrible monsters.

[Dave Anthony]

No, that's not fair.

[Unknown]

Come into my backyard and do this. So I don't know what record.

[Dave Anthony]

They tell stories about you. Oh, this? He's like, yeah, you know they do that about you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Actually. Can I tell a story?

[Dave Anthony]

True story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

One time I heard a noise at my back door in the middle of the night. I was scared shitless, but I had to go see. This was before I got a dog and to go see by myself. So it was like a weird tapping sound. And so I go over and I turn on the porch light at the back and there was a raccoon that was. That was trying to get through the, like, built in cat door, like, with his little raccoon hands. And when I flicked on the light, he kind of like sat up and looked at me. And then we were just staring at each other.

[Unknown]

That's what they do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I kicked the door, right? Like he's leaned over like this, you know, kind of trying to tap on the thing. And then I kicked the door, thinking he's gonna run away. And instead he goes and just kind of like stood up and paused at me.

[Unknown]

Did he do this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's her dog, Frank.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now he fucking.

[Unknown]

Okay, so I'm in my back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Worth the act out at all.

[Unknown]

I'm going to do an act out. I'm in my backyard and I hear all this. I hear all this noise. And I'm like, well, there's raccoons getting in the. The dog or cat's food, one or the other. And. And so I go out there and I. I grab a bat because rec. I know. Raccoons are terrifying. I'm not like her where I'm like, hi, raccoon.

[Dave Anthony]

I have a bat, to be fair.

[Unknown]

And I come out and there's a raccoon. And it comes out and it. It's like this in front of me. And I'm like, what are you doing? I tap the bat on the ground and it's like. Like what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

His stance got wider.

[Unknown]

He's like, what are you doing?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, he had a bat, too.

[Unknown]

And I'm like. And I'm like, you're supposed to be scared. And he's like, I'm not scared.

[Dave Anthony]

You're doing his voice. Or he's spoke.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then.

[Unknown]

And so I'm doing that. I'm like, get out of here, you. And then he's standing there and he's making him so big. And then his four buddies go trucking by. Oh, like he was, he was the, he was like the distraction guy. So his house could run off. Terrifying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's like. When there's the, the midnight bicycle riders and one of them stops in the middle of the intersection and they're like you. And like a bunch of them get fun. Get all of you out you dick gear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Midnight ride.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Raccoons. Am I right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

This derailed picture.

[Unknown]

So he goes out hunting with his buddies and they shoot raccoons and I assume they eat them. What else would you do with a delightful raccoon? But mostly what he did at night was steal cattle, horses and hogs. He now had a horse trailer that he used to move stolen animals. And in this part of Missouri they didn't really brand animals so it was super easy for him to steal. He was also very skilled at harassing witnesses. Oh, he had an attorney who he would retain for $5,000 per felony who would keep him out of, out of jail. And this was not a problem because he had a lot of money. He was always living large. He had a big roll of cash in his truck driving a new pigs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was it pig money?

[Unknown]

He's stealing pigs and cattle and horses and selling them to other people.

[Dave Anthony]

So he had that. Fuck you, pig money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck you, pig money. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like the 450 people in his fucking town were like, wait a minute.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody was like, wait a minute how? And also someone was like, I'm gonna marry him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. What is wrong with him?

[Dave Anthony]

He's got it all. A van with pigs. Swoon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Swoon.

[Unknown]

One time a farmer caught him stealing two horses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tortoises.

[Unknown]

Yeah, two tortoises. What you do with my tortoises, boy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They ran into my car.

[Unknown]

I haven't milked. I haven't milked them yet. Ran so.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, we can move.

[Unknown]

So the farmer reported it to the cops and said, this guy stole my horses and filed charges. And McElroy visited the farmer the next day with a rifle and hit him in the face with the butt of the gun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ouch.

[Unknown]

And then the farmer dropped the charges. He was like, that's fair.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I see your point. I'm on your side now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fair enough.

[Unknown]

When McElroy was 20, he had a child with a woman who is not his wife. At the same time he was dating a 15 year old girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the. Like this guy. Dude, this guy gets so many chicks.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Oh, he's, he's a very hot prospect in town. Well, he's Got the pig car? Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

He smells like pig.

[Unknown]

This girl was named Sharon. And they had a complicated and messy relationship. And one day they were arguing and he shot her in the neck with a shotgun. She did not die, but she did have scars. Cause that'll happen.

[Dave Anthony]

She was okay?

[Unknown]

Yeah. She lived after getting shot in the hospital.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, she was hella mad.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. I mean she had a fear of guns after it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some irrational fear and she felt like dating someone else.

[Georgia Hardstark]

After that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That.

[Unknown]

After that. Nope. She forgave him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good.

[Dave Anthony]

Good, good, good.

[Unknown]

And he divorced his first wife and married her. They had two kids. Then around.

[Dave Anthony]

Wow.

[Unknown]

Yeah. No.

[Dave Anthony]

Quite a turnaround.

[Unknown]

You know what? Love. Love is awesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stupid crazy.

[Unknown]

Then around 1961, McElroy started dating a 13 year old girl.

[Dave Anthony]

What's going on?

[Unknown]

What? He's like.

[Dave Anthony]

It starts. You've like slowly inched it back creepier and creepier. It started and it wasn't.

[Unknown]

Okay, so he's 27 at this point.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, 27 year olds are fucking disgusting. We all know that.

[Unknown]

Also at this point he's living with his parents.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh my.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This guy dream dates.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Wait a minute. You live with your parents, smell like pigs and shoot girls, you're still available? Oh, you're not? I'm still in. I'm still in.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So they have a farmhouse. So he moved Sally in with his parents and his wife Sharon. So it's his girlfriend and his wife and his parents and their kids.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Unknown]

So Sally had three kids and Sharon had two more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Funny.

[Unknown]

McElroy then met and started seeing another underage girl named Alice in 1964. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Seriously.

[Unknown]

She was. She was 12.

[Dave Anthony]

No, shut up.

[Unknown]

What?

[Dave Anthony]

Shut up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wish the story would end that all the ladies murdered him and moved to New York City and then like became. You know.

[Unknown]

Okay, that's what I was gonna say. This is the story of the rocket.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it doesn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how the rock cats began.

[Unknown]

And then he met a young woman named Marsha.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She was nine.

[Unknown]

She was now living there. And then. So it's. Marsha and Alice are living in his parents house with the six kids. And then he met 12 year old.

[Dave Anthony]

Brady Bunch Commonalities right there.

[Unknown]

Then he met 12 year old Trina Jan who was an 8th grader and he's. He seduced her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No he didn't.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gave her candy.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's not seduction, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not seduction.

[Unknown]

It's not seduction.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He put these sexy moves. He was just like.

[Unknown]

I'm a. I am a man. You're A girl. That's what seduction is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

This is my pig.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Have you ever seen a pig? And then you're in your sedan on the wood floor. He's 37, by the way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, ew.

[Unknown]

At this point. So to have Trina moved in, he kicks out Marcia. He's like, you're old. You're like 13. So then Trina moves in, drops out of school in the ninth grade and is pregnant by the time she's 14. Things weren't going that well because just 16 days after the birthday, Alice took off to her parents house. The escape lasted just hours because McElroy came to the home with a gun and forced the girls to come back with him. Oh, Alice, her other friend, who's there now, the other one also went with her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maureen.

[Unknown]

Let's call her Maureen. Maureen goes back also. So then he brings them back. He, he, he beats them both.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, good.

[Unknown]

And made them have sex with him. And then. Which I believe is called rape.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, yes.

[Unknown]

Right. And then when he was done, he brought Trina back to her parents house and shot the family dog.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, we can't do that here.

[Unknown]

Yep. And then. And then poured gas all around the house and burned it down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus.

[Unknown]

So he is en fuego. Like he's just fucking. As far as being horrible. He's killing it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he's doing very well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, man. God. Like, just fucking chill out, dude.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Just chill out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not a solution, George.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It won't work.

[Unknown]

I'm not sure. If someone had walked in and gone, dude, chill. We don't know what would have happened.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We don't. I know.

[Unknown]

Couple of days later, Trina went to a doctor because, you know, she had been beaten. And he was like, you look like you've been beaten and you're very good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is this doctor from the city? Yeah, he really knows his stuff.

[Dave Anthony]

Boy, your degrees are real, huh? You bit the nail on the head, doc.

[Unknown]

He slowly got the story of the beating out of her and the dog shooting and the arson. So the doctor contacts the social welfare agency who put Trina and her baby into foster care because she was a child. And then the case was taken to the district attorney and on the basis of Trina's testimony, McElroy is indicted for arson, assault and rape. But it was not looking good. He was represented by defense attorney Richard Jean McFadden who said McElroy was his favorite client because he always paid cash and he always came back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get your another. What the is wrong with you, dude? Like Just.

[Dave Anthony]

That's the worst. Yeah. Hey, you're back.

[Unknown]

Who'd you kill?

[Dave Anthony]

All right, what'd you shoot?

[Unknown]

A pig or a person? What'd you do?

[Dave Anthony]

A person. Dog. House.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

[Unknown]

Trifecta.

[Dave Anthony]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm gonna buy a house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Boat.

[Dave Anthony]

Time for me to live out a boat.

[Unknown]

But even with his 5,000 per felony charge the attorney told him it would be difficult for him to be acquitted. But McElroy would not give up. He found the foster home where Trina was living and began making threatening phone calls. He would sit out in front of the foster home for hours and hours, sometimes shooting a gun into the air. What he then called the foster home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's a fucking nerd.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a cartoon. Like, it sounds like a cartoon.

[Unknown]

What about this isn't working? Did I not tell you this was Yosemite Sam?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, Yosemite Sam. Origin story.

[Unknown]

Then he called the foster family and said he would trade quote girl for girl, to get his child back. By this he meant he knew where the foster family's biological daughter went to school and what bus she rode. So that didn't go well. And the district attorney then hit him with eight more felony child molestation charges a result of his sexual activity with Trina. The attorney kept using delay tactics and after a while, Trina decided to go back to McElroy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't go through this again with you, Dave.

[Unknown]

He then arranged to divorce his second wife, Sharon, from whom he'd been separated for years and married Trina. To get Trina's parents to agree, he threatened to kill the mother. And the mother was like, okay, you can marry my daughter.

[Dave Anthony]

We like him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's sweet. It's so romantic. And they're like, oh, my God.

[Unknown]

So this solved all his legal problems because, being his wife, Trina could not be compelled to testify against him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit.

[Unknown]

She also signed a statement saying she had lied about Everybody, everything. And McElroy beat the charges.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And her.

[Unknown]

In 1976, he shot an arm a neighbor farmer in the face and stomach. The gun was loaded with birdshot. The lawyer also delayed it as long as possible while McElroy intimidated the farmer, driving by his house, shining a spotlight into his windows at night, destroying his tractors and shooting guns into the air. The farmer said McElroy parked outside his home at least 100 times and would just sit there. At the trial, two of his raccoon hunting buddies said they were with him the day of the shooting. And McElroy got off again. The pattern of committing crimes, then intimidating Witnesses went on for four years. Then in 1980, two of his daughters went into a town store. So he's got two daughters. One's like a teenager and the other's five. So the older girl buys something and then as they walk out the five year old girl grabs a couple little pieces of candy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure, I did that I did.

[Unknown]

And the clerk was like hey, put that shit back. And then the girl was like. And threw it back and was mad, which is cool for a five year old. And then a couple hours later, McElroy and Trina showed up. And McElroy was just kicking it with a knife. And Trina and the owner argued about how he had treated the daughter. And then the couple said, well, you're banned from our store. You can never come back. So McElroy started harassing the owners. And then after a couple months he pulled up in the back of the store and shot the husband owner in the neck with a shotgun. And he lived. Everybody in the neck.

[Dave Anthony]

Is he shooting?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This whole city is filled with people with the most powerful necks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Titanium necks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. What is it the water or like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That they, their necks are bulletproof.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so strange, but like cool.

[Unknown]

Now McElroy was arrested again. And then he started harassing the store.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Owners and he calmed the fuck down.

[Dave Anthony]

He needs to stop harassing and shooting in the neck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And the air.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Enough.

[Dave Anthony]

And marrying children. There's a lot of things for him to knock off.

[Unknown]

Dude's got a. Dude's got a thing. Like he's got his thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We hate his thing.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, we're being very clear.

[Unknown]

I mean take it up with Pepsi because they were sponsoring him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For doing all this.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Oh, he, he had a, he had like four sponsors.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was this like, what's the extreme sports thing when you can skateboard?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like X Games.

[Georgia Hardstark]

X Games.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like he did it all on a little bike.

[Georgia Hardstark]

OG X Games.

[Unknown]

So he starts harassing the store owners. And then when he heard, heard that the town minister had gone to visit the store owner in the hospital because of his neck wound, he turned his wrath on the minister and told the minister he was going to castrate him and cut his son to pieces in front of him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Chill.

[Unknown]

So the minister started carrying a gun. Yeah, it's a good town.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get it?

[Unknown]

I like that. Just because the minister went and visited him, he's like, well, I'm gonna cut your kid up if you're.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, it's my job.

[Unknown]

I go and I see people that are hurt. I'm Cutting your balls off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm not laughing at that.

[Unknown]

So his lawyer's whole thing was delay tactics. So he started the delay tactics again. He keeps delaying the trial. Meanwhile McElroy would sit in the local bar and talk loudly about he was going to. How he was going to kill the store owner. But it didn't work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was empty and it was like three people and he was talking loudly in it.

[Dave Anthony]

I can hear you. I'm gonna kill him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck up dude.

[Dave Anthony]

Sick of that guy, right? Someone should shoot him in the neck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, I will.

[Unknown]

So it didn't work. There was a trial and McElroy was convicted of second degree assault and sentenced to two years in prison.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But.

[Unknown]

But it being Missouri, he was allowed to stay free while he appealed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, that's nice.

[Unknown]

Four days later he was back in the local bar. Hey, how'd your conviction go? Oh, it was all right.

[Dave Anthony]

Guilty.

[Unknown]

Guilty. Totally fucking guilty. Here I am drinking a beer. And then Trina came in and handed him a large gun. He said he was gonna kill the store owner. But having a gun was a violation of his parole. So he was charged on the day of his hearing for his parole violation. The entire town decided they had had enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I like the sound of this.

[Unknown]

After 20 years. Been fucking all their daughters. That's it. But when they got to the courthouse they found out the lawyer had gotten it postponed for 10 days. Now they were pissed and they finally decided they needed to do something and they all went to the American Legion. I love that in this little town. They do have an American Legion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great bar there.

[Dave Anthony]

I bet that and the Sam's Club.

[Unknown]

So they have a town meeting and they call the sheriff and ask the sheriff to come by. The sheriff comes by and they tell him what's going on. And the sheriff told them that they should just start a neighborhood watch group.

[Dave Anthony]

That's good.

[Unknown]

So he's not. He's not very helpful.

[Dave Anthony]

Meet Agent McGruff. He's going to help you with this case. Find him very useful.

[Unknown]

So there's a guy who's been your daughters and shooting you in the neck. You need like a watch group.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you guys made any kind of a phone tree or anything? Called each other?

[Dave Anthony]

You guys quitting? What's your deal?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown]

He told them not to confront McElroy and then the sheriff just left.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. They were they. But like they all had titanium necks.

[Unknown]

Yes. At this point they all have front that metal neck guards. Right. Then Trina and McElroy show up and went to the bar for a Drink. When the townspeople heard this, they. They all decided to go have a beer. Trina was said to be very intimidated by all of the townspeople standing around while McElroy coolly finished his beer, went up and bought a six pack and then went outside. Outside there were three or four guys and they got their rifles out of their trucks and then the entire crowd came out of the bar and followed him to his truck. And it was said they were at the very least 35 people, but probably more like 60, all standing there. And Trina and McElroy then got inside the truck and he coolly lit a cigarette. And then Trina looked across the street and saw a man aiming a rifle. And she yelled, they've got a gun. And then they shot at him from more than One Direction. McElroy was hit once in the head and once in the neck. And they shot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aha.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The head wound. It was the head wound.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You gotta shoot in the neck in the shot. You got to.

[Dave Anthony]

Legally.

[Unknown]

Welcome to Neckville, motherfucker. Many other shots at the truck. All the shots came from different guns. And McElroy died instantly.

[Dave Anthony]

From the gunshots, Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, from sadness.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, depression. Got him. About suicide.

[Unknown]

About suicide. It looks like he did it to himself.

[Dave Anthony]

About carbon monoxide.

[Unknown]

Got in about 45 minutes later. They called an ambulance.

[Dave Anthony]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry about that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's sarcastic, actually.

[Unknown]

Unfortunately, no one saw the shooter. Yeah, except Trina, who identified him. She was in the truck, you know, and she saw him. But the DA declined to press charges because everyone was like, he was there, too. Yeah, he was the guy hitting him with the iron pan on the head. The. The FBI came in to investigate, but they also could not press any charges because everyone in the town was like, I don't know. He left behind 10 children. 10 wonderful children and a few. A few wives. After his death, cattle and hog wrestling in the county dropped significantly. In 1984, Trina filed a $6 million lawsuit against the town and the sheriff and the mayor and the guy who had shot him across the street. The case was settled out of court for $17,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, what are we making tonight?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she bought a Yaris. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

[Dave Anthony]

Owns a fully owned. Fully owns a yard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Unknown]

So that's my favorite murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's pretty good.

[Unknown]

But, God, yeah, he was a fucking monster. And they killed him. That was 1981, and they killed him. And everyone's like, I love it. Yeah. What are you gonna do?

[Dave Anthony]

We'll get there Again. Again, we're on our way.

[Unknown]

Let's kill him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gareth. Gareth.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, great. I'll go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice Dave. Nice Dave. That was good.

[Unknown]

Thank you. You know what?

[Dave Anthony]

I can't.

[Unknown]

Last time I came on, I. I wrote a story about a guy from my hometown who killed women. And I can't do those stories because I. I feel weird as a guy reading.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, you're sexist.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, to that point, I'll get into mine.

[Unknown]

This is about men killing women, right?

[Dave Anthony]

It's the same story as yours. A different interpretation, a totally different take. I do it from the pig angle, so this will be fun. I'm from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. So ripe for murders. We have Ed Gein skin ottomans. Dahmer, obvious choice.

[Unknown]

Skin ottomans, yeah. Did he make actual ottomans?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, I don't. Haven't seen the whole collection. He made a nipple belt. Yeah, he made a nipple belt. I might have taken some creative liberties. As we all know. Steven Avery. So this is another story. This is about the north side Strangler, who is actually. This is some more good detective work. So in October 10th and 11th, 1986, two sex workers, Deborah Harris, Tanya Miller, were both strangled one day apart. Both bodies found in vacant apartments. Since they were both strangled sex workers found in empty apartments day apart, cops thought there might be a link. Which shows you they're pretty good there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Surprising, actually.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they're not stupid. However, this was before they were collecting DNA or DNA was shaky, so the murders went unsolved. So then, June 20, 1987, Joyce Ann Mims was found strangled in a vacant apartment by some construction workers in Milwaukee's north side. She was also believed to be a sex worker, had no criminal record, but. George Mule Jones.

[Unknown]

Mule Jones.

[Dave Anthony]

George Mule Jones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You mean George the Mule.

[Dave Anthony]

George the Mule Jones.

[Unknown]

Now, is this a nickname? Does he have a big hog? Is he. Well, is this a family name?

[Dave Anthony]

I have a theory, but we'll get there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

You probably know you know him. Okay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, we went to high school together.

[Dave Anthony]

He said the Improvoland. George Mule Jones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God, he's so funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great.

[Dave Anthony]

Rides it on a horse.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's one of my favorite stand ups.

[Dave Anthony]

So they charged George Mule Jones with the murder because he was friends with Mims from Cleveland and they were still friends with Mims and his girlfriend who was simply known as Sugar Baby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why not Mims? That's the coolest fucking guy Mims are.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, they're different. Mims was killed, okay? No, they are the same. And she should have been called Sugar Baby. I couldn't agree more, Georgia. So Jones had A criminal record. Cause he was actually convicted of murder in Mississippi.

[Unknown]

That doesn't mean anything.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, you aren't lying. He stabbed a woman and was sentenced to five years.

[Unknown]

You know what?

[Dave Anthony]

A year of stab, I think, for your first murder. Yeah, A year of stab, I think, is what they were like.

[Unknown]

Your first murder should be like three.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

And if you do it again, well, then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, you're seriously gonna piss Georgia off. And then it's gonna get fucking ugly up here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna cry and I'm gonna. At this fucking table. No, but it'll be fine. I mean, it's fine.

[Unknown]

Let me get my beers and my iPad.

[Dave Anthony]

So the woman that he killed was there was named Shamika Carter. She was killed because she made fun of George Mule Jones. Inability to perform sexually.

[Unknown]

How about that? That happens a lot with murderers, right? Isn't that one of their things? Like they can't get it up and then they kill? That's. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, that's.

[Unknown]

I. I don't do. If I can't get it up, I just. I just walk away. Shamefully.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. Could you tell your friends?

[Unknown]

Shamefully, I'm like, I'm gonna watch Law and Order.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. As long as murder's involved in some way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm gonna watch a murder be committed instead of committing my own.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then I'll be back.

[Dave Anthony]

And then I'll be back with ideas.

[Unknown]

I might cut your buttocks.

[Dave Anthony]

And a new soundtrack. Okay, so, yeah, so he went down for that guy killing. So then police thought. But the. But there's still killings going on. Oh, and they. In his apartment, they found a black ski mask and nine women's shoes in his.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have that too in my house, though.

[Unknown]

Wait. To be fair, nine women, shoe in a ski mask.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

That's actually all I have in my house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Nine is a weird number.

[Unknown]

Well, there's a. Unless there was a lady with just one leg.

[Dave Anthony]

Not in my notes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I got some shoes.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So. So he. So he goes down for these murders.

[Dave Anthony]

He goes down for this murder in particular. Yes. This one. Right.

[Unknown]

But there's been three murders so far.

[Dave Anthony]

This is the third murder.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. There's more to come.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We see your papers in your hand.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. I'm moving fast.

[Unknown]

In my story, the bad guy dies.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. Dave, we were there. So the idea of a serial killer was floated out by Bill Vogel, who was the homicide unit in Wisconsin. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He told the police's chief that he thought both women that were Killed the year before were done by the same man. He entered with a businesslike attitude to discuss the matter. And I used the word cereal and I got reamed out, said Vogel.

[Unknown]

Get out of here, Vogel, you son of a bitch. I don't want to hear the word cereal again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I hate that part.

[Unknown]

I don't care if you're talking about Cheerios.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Season two sucked. No, I'm totally kidding. I love that pod.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, Steven, cut it out.

[Unknown]

Cut it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cut that out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cut that. That never happens.

[Dave Anthony]

And bolt the doors. You will all unfort. You will all unremember. Known as forgetting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we get the steam?

[Dave Anthony]

Whatever the fuck gas they talking about?

[Unknown]

Flashpods.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gas, steam.

[Unknown]

Oh, gal, we knock these people out.

[Dave Anthony]

You're damn right. We are like the Joker of Batman. So, yeah, so his chief was like, hey, man, we don't want people freaking out with the word cereal. Well, let's just shut up about that. And so they didn't.

[Unknown]

That's the best way to handle a possible serial killer. Let's act like it's not happening.

[Dave Anthony]

Strangulations kept happening. In 1992, Irene Smith, 25, was found dead. In 1932, we're going back. He was a time jumper. I should point that out. Time had no meaning in this one. The year was 1804. He went to started a new life of murder. And he did.

[Unknown]

He then killed a dinosaur.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, he sure did. So basically, more people are dying, more sex workers.

[Unknown]

How many more are there?

[Dave Anthony]

We're right now at about 5. Karen D. Kilpatrick, 32, was killed in 1994, Irene Smith, 25, was also 1994. Both women were strangled, both were sex workers. Police still had no way of connecting these crimes, but there was a homicide detective named Steve Spagnola Spignola who was set on finding the person. And in 1995, April 24, Florence McCormick's body was found in a shitty basement on Locust Street.

[Unknown]

It sounds like he's killing ladies whose names start with Mick.

[Dave Anthony]

Mmm, I don't think that tracks in my stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You just fucking solved this case.

[Unknown]

I'm putting shit together. The Scottish killer.

[Dave Anthony]

Wait, he's Scottish, too?

[Unknown]

I don't know. Mix Mark. I'm fucking thrown out. Theories? Let's put shit on the board.

[Dave Anthony]

Sure. Is there a board? I'm not sure. So, yeah, McCormick's body was found. She was tied up on a sink. Her hair was neat, fingernails suggested no struggle. Her socks were clean, which I'm not sure what that means, but that was pointed out, that her Socks were clean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, like she wasn't walking around outside or something.

[Dave Anthony]

I guess they make it sound like that is how they know she, she was murdered. But Vogel's over there.

[Unknown]

Vogel's over there in the corner, just smelling her socks. These are, these are good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Vogel. I have never worn clean socks in my life.

[Dave Anthony]

That's what I was thinking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If someone buys me the clean socks, something's wrong.

[Dave Anthony]

But, like, that means that when we die, people will be like, it's a murder. Their socks are filthy. Which is just going to be that I was wearing socks.

[Unknown]

What does a filthy sock mean?

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know.

[Unknown]

I, I look.

[Dave Anthony]

That's for you guys. That's for you guys. I'm merely a shepherd of this.

[Unknown]

By the way, we didn't tell. There's some take home stuff.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, yeah, it's under your seats. Okay, so Spagnola didn't think that there was no sexual activity. There was no semen on the body. There was no semen around the body, which he thought was possible because sometimes the killer may masturbate near the body. Her body was posed, it was bound. But they thought there was some level of comfortability between the two because it seemed like there was little struggle for this. So they thought that, like, he was like, hey, you know, let me bind you and we'll kill Kinky. No, I don't think he threw that part out there. Maybe a tell. 1995, two months after the murder, McCormick, Sheila Ferrier was discovered six blocks away in Titonia. Also a sex worker, also in an empty apartment. This time strangled by her own brassiere. Posed. Crack pipes, Crack cleaner, pipe cleaners. Just a lot of crack. A good scene.

[Unknown]

So it's a crack house.

[Dave Anthony]

It's an empty apartment where crack was smoked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But pipe cleaners, like for crafts, for crack, for crack.

[Unknown]

No one's doing crafts.

[Dave Anthony]

People are doing crack, which can lead to crafts. But I don't believe that that was the direct implication. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So at this point, there's, There were vision boards everywhere.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm glad we could do this.

[Unknown]

At this point, there's like seven dead women, all found in abandoned apartments. And they're like, strangled. And they're like, I don't see a connection.

[Dave Anthony]

Cops are like, man, something's going on, huh?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You hungry?

[Dave Anthony]

Just get lunch.

[Unknown]

You know what? I would say this was the same killer, but the socks are different.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, these socks are filthy. Then they actually finally got a DNA sample. They didn't really know for who, but on August 30, 1995, there was the the body of of a 16 year old runaway named Jessica Payne, who was found with her throat slit. How was she found? The two young boys went to an abandoned mattress that they normally used as a makeshift trampoline. Normal, however, a normal just kid stuff.

[Unknown]

That's just boys jumping.

[Dave Anthony]

Go find a mattress.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You gotta play with garbage. Yeah, go figure as a kid.

[Dave Anthony]

Jump on a little refuse, you scamps. But this day they weren't getting a bunch of bounce like normal. And the reason was because Jessica Pa Payne's body was underneath it. As I said, this time there was appearance of sexual activity.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Those boys are fine now.

[Dave Anthony]

The boys are fine. Yeah. So there was semen present. They had some DNA. They still couldn't connect it to anybody, but they thought that this might be related. A guy named Richard Gwynn was in jail. He started implicating himself in two others. This guy Sam Hadaway. Chot Ot sure. Gwyn told police he was driving. He was in the car with Hadaway, Ott and Jessica Payne. He parked in front of an abandoned residence where they remained in his vehicle conversing, listening to the radio, drinking alcohol and smoking marijuana. Just fun car games. And Gwyn said at some point Hadaway, Ott and Payne exited the vehicle, walked to an alley, and then Hadaway returned to the car, followed by Ott five minutes later. When Gwen asked about Payne's whereabouts, Hadaway said that they had to rob Payne, but her pockets were empty, so Ott just cut her throat. Hadaway confirmed Gwen's story, providing further detail about the murder and that Ott cut Payne's throat. Hadaway described a situation and when he searched for her pockets, he found nothing. So he pushed her down on the mattress, pulled down her pants, pulled up her shirt and tried to force her way in. But Hadaway said he didn't actually see that because he turned away. But when he turned back around, he heard choking and gagging to see that Payne's throat was cut and that blood was gushing out. Yes, David, I don't know, okay? You're just reacting like a human. I get it. Fucking as you should.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just bummin', you know, that's what we do.

[Dave Anthony]

Just bummin'.

[Unknown]

Just bumming out again. My guy died, but.

[Dave Anthony]

So 1995, the police found a search warrant for Ott's home. They found two box cutters and a knife among his possession. That was really all the evidence that they had. But Ott was sentenced to life in prison with parole available in 50 years. The main evidence in the trial was the two box cutters, the police.

[Unknown]

But that sounds nothing like the other ones.

[Dave Anthony]

Weird, right? So DNA evidence started being used in 1990, Wisconsin fully came around to 2015 to really collecting DNA from every violent criminal.

[Unknown]

Sorry, what?

[Dave Anthony]

1990S, where most places started, started collecting a database of violent criminals. Wisconsin finished it in 2015.

[Unknown]

So just a mere 25 years.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. Just a mere difference. Is that an issue for you?

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's for a lot of us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So now the police felt that they had DNA that they had found at that scene. So they now had DNA from a number of women. They had DNA from the woman in 1986 to a 95 one in 97. And the latest, there were no more murders until April 27, 2007.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

When Quithriene Stokes, 28, was found strangled by city inspectors after they were going to inspect a vacant boarded up residence, they found DNA at this scene. And now police had the DNA from the two women in 86, 97, all that, 2007, and it all matched to one person. But the police couldn't figure out who it was. Since the DNA matched nothing in their databases. They knew they were dealing with someone that had never been convicted of a violent crime before, which is cur. So two detectives of the Milwaukee Department Homicide Unit re examined the DNA linked to the suspect, and they believe they found him. So on September 7, 2009, Walter E. Ellis of Milwaukee was arrested at noon at a hotel by a swarm of police officers. Ellis was booked on a temporary felony warrant, was being questioned by the police. They took a DNA sample from his place off his toothbrush. And they had a match. He was matched. He was even matched for the two murders that men were already serving.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oops.

[Dave Anthony]

So awkward. Here's what's crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Awkward, not good.

[Dave Anthony]

They should have had his DNA because it wasn't from a lack of opportunities. He was convicted of a shitload of crimes. 1978 felony burglary. 79 drug charges, 80 robbery. 81 controlled substance. 81 again, possession with intent to distribute. 85, soliciting and beating up two sex workers. 87, retail theft. 92, released for good behavior. 92, back in for violating that good behavior. 94, stabbing his girlfriend with a screwdriver, not the drink. 95, battery for choking his girlfriend. 97 resisting arrest, 98 reckless injuries. So he had a track record.

[Unknown]

But hold on. When would they have gotten any DNA?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, because they collected. They still collected DNA. They just didn't collect it from every violent criminal. Are you having fun with me?

[Unknown]

Yep, I am.

[Dave Anthony]

So the DNA was never asked for. But in 2001, police discovered that they actually had gotten his DNA. Or at least they had. At one point. There was an issue. His DNA matched nothing in their system, and they know that. One of two things happened. A, Ellis convinced his cellmate to submit the DNA for him.

[Unknown]

Come on.

[Dave Anthony]

Or B, it was lost in transfer to the Oshkosh Police Department. Who said they never received it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait a second. Is Oshkosh where Stephen Avery.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Unknown]

Oh, is that also where they make the overalls?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. It's famous for two things now, which is cool.

[Unknown]

Okay. I'm not sure which is a bigger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That same police department.

[Dave Anthony]

Same police department.

[Unknown]

This is the same fucking police department.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, it's the same. It's like the same region.

[Unknown]

Very. Shut the fuck up.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they share a Walmart. It's real.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck.

[Dave Anthony]

So had they done this in the 90s, like, had they done this, they would have stopped. Yeah, they would have stopped five to seven murders. They would have stopped one if they'd done it in 2001 when it was totally expected of them. So in 2008, an appeals court overturned Ott's conviction. The guy who they said cut the mattress. Murderer. They had a new trial with new DNA evidence. 2009, they announced it would not seek a new trial. Ott was freed. He served 13 years in prison for a murder he didn't commit. George Mule Jones died in prison April 30, 2012. But it is 19. Not too sad because he was also a previous murderer. He just didn't do the one we talked about. Ellis was found.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, good, good, good.

[Dave Anthony]

Am I doing good?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Ellis was found guilty of seven murders in total, but he was thought to have been guilty of nine. He was sentenced to seven life sentences in 2011. And here's the fucker that's an out. He died in 2013. So he served two years. These murders went from 1987 to 2007. And he was in for less than two years.

[Unknown]

How old was he?

[Dave Anthony]

He was like, in his 50s.

[Unknown]

Tell me he died painfully. Like, he got shammed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hospital.

[Dave Anthony]

He was in a hospital.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want to point out that, though, even if they had had his DNA and put it through, they would have putting it through CODIS and actually checking that DNA. As we know that, like, from the rape kits that are not tested doesn't mean he would have been caught. It's not like, oh, they should have. If they had tested it and had his DNA, everything would have been fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, that's not the case. So it's like, oh, but they could.

[Unknown]

Have, you know, started testing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, yeah. Who knows what could have been crazy?

[Unknown]

25 year window.

[Dave Anthony]

He was also known as a lunatic. Like, they like, everyone's like this.

[Unknown]

How about this guy?

[Dave Anthony]

Everyone's like, he's crazy. He lives like, he lives right around every one of these.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's not all assume that. That these systems that they have in place to catch people are like the end all be all. Like, it takes a lot more than that. And so, like, it doesn't mean that wouldn't. Like these seven women wouldn't have been killed.

[Dave Anthony]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I mean?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry, Debbie. A bummer. But it's true.

[Dave Anthony]

Between 1986 and 2007, 42 prostitutes were killed in Milwaukee. Only 31% of those cases have been solved. And they're great there. Shit again.

[Unknown]

Mine wrapped up super nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, well, for first of all, it's always hard to go last. Yeah, it's always hard to go last. But then also. That was fucking rough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Yes. Great job.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes, thank you. That's a great job.

[Unknown]

That strangler, that's fucked up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How do you feel about it?

[Dave Anthony]

Terrible. I really am, like, so shocked at how little they give a fuck. When you really find out how it's like politics. But when you find out that they're really just worried about what people think over actually doing good, you're like, we're just fucked.

[Unknown]

Well, that's something we run across in the dial up all the time, is how much the FBI fucks up. Can I. Can I end with a. Can I end with something? Just a personal story, please. So my uncle, I lived in California. I grew up in Marin County. A little bit better, a little bit better than Petaluma, But I don't know if that. But my uncle was a huge drug dealer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's way better than Petaluma.

[Unknown]

And at one point he. The law was like, getting down on him. So he decided to move to Florida to get out of California because it was the local cops. And I went and we went to this big going away party and he opened up a suitcase that was full of just fucking cash. I was like 12, and I was like, that's cool. And then he left. And then all of his friends, the people that I had met at parties at his house, about 10 of them showed up in trunks all around Marin County. Dead body trunks, one after the other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, chilling and like, John's dead in.

[Unknown]

A trunk, Marty's dead in a trunk. Gary's dead in a trunk. Yeah. All of his friends got killed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you're saying that's the FBI?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It wasn't the gang drug dealer members that they were hanging out with. It couldn't have been them.

[Dave Anthony]

Or natural causes and mere burial. Good Lord. There's theory, sir.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you're gonna take a nap in a trunk, it's on you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. It's suicide by suffocation.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that they lived in trunks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's a huge detail. Hey, here's some good news. No updates from either of those stories. We don't ever have to talk about them again. Neither do Dave. Neither does Dave. Neither does Garrett.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we're not gonna make this episode any longer than it already is. Cause, you know, we've learned our lessons.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, listen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, four's too many.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So now we're gonna do the retitling part. This episode was originally called Live at.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Orpheum, but if we were naming it today, perhaps we would call it that's My Madonna. That's my Madonna. That's my Human.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Madonna. Because she said fuck on cnn. And she was. When I saw her, I wasn't in the streets that day. I was at home crying and exhausted, but so thrilled to see what I was seeing. And then at the pinnacle of all of it, there's Madonna on CNN being like, fuck this guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, amazing count.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, there's also the title, also Vintage, which was when Georgia was introducing her story. She said, mine is also vintage after the La Ripper.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then I just did it again on the rewind episode. So I have no new jokes and just keep reusing them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then it could also be called a 10 is talking. I love that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was a good one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All you fives better listen when a 10 is talking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was my favorite sign with Ruth Bader Ginsburg's picture. But it's a ripoff from a 30 Rock joke, okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's right. Yeah. And we don't have to say goodbye, we've realized, because we already say goodbye in the episode. So we're gonna let Those girls from 2017 rightfully say their own goodbyes. So thanks for listening. Rewind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. You guys, will you please help us? Thank Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds.

[Dave Anthony]

Thank you very much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We appreciate it so much. Thank you all for coming here. This has been an amazing night. Hey, you guys, stay sexy and don't get tired.

[Unknown]

Don't get.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It.