Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 54: Valet Area

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Valet Area" (Episode 54)

Podcast Information:

• Title: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
• Hosts: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
• Network: Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Valet Area
• Release Date: July 23, 2025

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Introduction to Rewind

In this special edition of My Favorite Murder, hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark revisit Episode 54, titled "Valet Area." The Rewind series allows Karen and Georgia to reflect on their past episodes, providing fresh commentary, updates, and personal insights. As Karen humorously notes, "Rewind every Wednesday... we recap our old shows and we give it all new commentary" (01:55).

Recapping Episode 54: Valet Area

Original Episode Focus: Episode 54 delves into the chilling stories of two notorious serial killers: Nathaniel Barjona and Rodney Alcala. Karen and Georgia explore the disturbing histories, legal mishaps, and psychological profiles of these individuals, highlighting failures in the justice system and the profound impact of their crimes on victims and communities.

In-Depth Analysis of Nathaniel Barjona

Early Years and Initial Crimes: Nathaniel Barjona's criminal behavior began alarmingly early. At seven years old, he attempted to strangle a five-year-old neighbor with a Ouija board (21:15). By thirteen, he had sexually assaulted another child, showcasing a long history of violence.

Legal Failures and Escalation: Despite the gravity of his crimes, Barjona received a mere year of probation in 1975 for attempting to murder an eight-year-old child, raising questions about the efficacy and fairness of the legal system at the time (23:00). His subsequent release led to further assaults, including the kidnapping and rape of a ten-year-old boy in 1996, whom he later brutally murdered.

Psychological Profile and Incarceration: Barjona was eventually diagnosed with multiple personality disorders, including narcissistic personality disorder and psychopathy (63:23). His commitment to Bridgewater State Hospital for sexual predators was intended to prevent his release, but systemic oversights allowed his eventual parole and continuation of his murderous spree.

Impact and Legacy: Karen poignantly reflects on the systemic failures: "It's a fucked up justice system at the time" (26:27). The tragic story underscores the importance of laws like Megan's Law in preventing recidivism among sexual offenders.

Exploring the Crimes of Rodney Alcala

Public Persona vs. Hidden Darkness: Rodney Alcala, infamously known as the "Dating Game Killer," maintained a facade of normalcy by appearing on the popular TV show The Dating Game (39:06). This duality between his charming public image and his heinous crimes illustrates his manipulative nature.

Criminal Activities and Capture: Alcala's crimes spanned decades, involving the rape and murder of numerous women and boys. His arrest was complicated by his ability to evade law enforcement through charm and deceit, eventually leading to his conviction and death sentence in 2010 (57:47).

Psychological Manipulation: With an IQ of 160, Alcala displayed extreme intelligence and manipulation skills, enabling him to commit crimes while maintaining a respectable public image. Karen emphasizes his cunning nature: "He was incredibly charming and incredibly manipulative" (42:34).

Victims and Community Impact: Alcala's actions left a trail of pain and loss, affecting families and communities deeply. The hosts discuss the importance of community awareness and the tragic consequences of his absence from stricter legal oversight during his early years.

Personal Reflections and Community Impact

Building a Supportive Community: Karen shares heartwarming stories from the My Favorite Murder community, highlighting how listener interactions can lead to life-saving connections. She recounts a touching incident where a fellow fan alerted her to a potential threat, demonstrating the podcast's positive influence: "A fellow murderino probably saved me from being robbed, assaulted, kidnapped, murdered" (14:37).

Emotional Connections and Healing: Both hosts express the therapeutic role of the podcast in their lives and their listeners', discussing personal experiences and the importance of addressing trauma openly. Georgia opens up about her own harrowing encounter with a similar predator, fostering a sense of solidarity and healing within the community (51:29).

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up the Rewind episode, Karen and Georgia reflect on the enduring impact of discussing such dark topics and the importance of community support in facing them. They emphasize the critical need for societal vigilance and the role that accessible information and supportive networks play in preventing future tragedies.

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Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff: "Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult, but the truth is, it happens to smart, grounded everyday people like us." (01:07)
• Lola Blanc (Georgia): "If you're into that. Hang out. If no. Bye. Bye." (03:09)
• Karen Kilgariff: "It's super fucked up." (33:18)
• Georgia Hardstark: "Curl hair, like ramen, dry ramen hair." (48:37)
• Karen Kilgariff: "Everybody wants to be told that they're pretty and want, you know, have their picture taken." (54:56)

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Final Notes: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Valet Area serves as a profound reflection on past episodes, offering deeper insights into some of the most disturbing criminal cases discussed on My Favorite Murder. Through candid conversations and personal anecdotes, Karen and Georgia highlight the importance of community support, legal reforms, and ongoing vigilance in the face of true crime.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult, but the truth is, it happens to smart, grounded everyday people like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We host Trust Me, a podcast about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cults, extreme belief and manipulation. And now Trust Me has a new.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Home on the Exactly Right Podcast network alongside shows like My Favorite Murder and Buried Bones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

New episodes of Trust Me premiere July.

[Georgia Hardstark]

30Th on exactly right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen, wherever you get your podcasts, my.

[Lola Blanc]

Favorite hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rewind, Rewind every Wednesday. And you might know this. We go back and we recap our old shows and we give it all new commentary, we give it updates, we bring some insights, we do our thing.

[Lola Blanc]

And today we're doing our thing with episode 54, which we named Valet Area.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This episode came out on February 2, 2017, year two of the podcast.

[Lola Blanc]

We were in it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were in it.

[Lola Blanc]

So let's listen to the intro of episode 54. That was moments of staring at each other.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I thought we were gonna say hi at the same time.

[Lola Blanc]

I know, but I didn't know when you were gonna start. Ready?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Same here.

[Lola Blanc]

Hi, how are you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

How are you?

[Lola Blanc]

What the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What the? Welcome to My Favorite Murder. It's a show where we talk at the same time. Same time. That's Georgia Hardstar.

[Lola Blanc]

That's Karen Kilgariff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is my favorite murder. Welcome. So glad you could make it.

[Lola Blanc]

Thanks for coming. Thanks for staying for at least 10 minutes, we hope. Give us 10.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're gonna do this for 10 minutes. Just a lot of back and forth. Yep. Yap. If you're into that. Hang out. If no. Bye. Bye.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, see you in 20. Actually 20 minutes when we start the murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

See you in 45 minutes. When I begin to commit to the project that is my favorite murder.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, we're being realistic now. Do you love your. You got a manicure?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I got a manicure today. I did need to look at my nails.

[Lola Blanc]

I know. Isn't it fun? You're gazing lovingly at your nails. I've never seen you do that before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's the thing. And I just talked about this. But to you, but having. So now I work on Guy Branham's TV show. And on this TV show, I get sometimes 8:30 in the morning. I get three grown women who stand around me doing my hair and makeup for hours. And it is so fun.

[Lola Blanc]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And like, people just teasing my hair for like 45 minutes straight.

[Lola Blanc]

The best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And shaping it so I have really good hair. Doing makeup, very lightly brushing my face for an hour.

[Lola Blanc]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I start to realize, like, on the first day, because this is a very collapsed schedule. It's been hard.

[Lola Blanc]

We've worked a lot, which is why we're recording on a Sunday instead of a Tuesday.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Because this next week is gonna be the same and crazy. But. So the first day we went to tape, I sat down at my. So it's called Talk Show. The game show Guy is hosting. Guy Branum, friend of the show, expert lawyer. Guy Branham. It's a talk show. He's the host and I am a judge, where people come out and they do an interview with Guy, and then I judge them and tell them how they did.

[Lola Blanc]

God, that sounds like a dream job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just like, super fun.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. And you don't get judged. You just talk shit on people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell no. They can't say shit to me.

[Lola Blanc]

Don't fucking talk to me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But going through, like, basically the beauty, a glam squad every morning makes me realize how, like, the first day after I left, Diane, who's my makeup person, handed me a mask and she goes, why don't you put this on tonight?

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was basically like thing by thing, where it's like, oh, yeah, that's right. Like, I go home and then just go to sleep and don't wash my face.

[Lola Blanc]

They're like, can you make our lives a little easier, please?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you not make this so that we have to put you together like a wax goddamn dummy? And so then you Know, like, one day I realized I have to hold up signs. I need to paint my fingernails. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

No, dude, I get it when you're like, oh, this person. I have done the bare minimum of looking good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And now. But then once I do it, it's like, oh, this is fun.

[Lola Blanc]

Doesn't it feel nice to take care to pamper yourself?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It really does. So today I really like it. So today I was like, I just did my nails last week really fast.

[Lola Blanc]

I do that too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But so today I went and got a manicure.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In Silver Lake. And it was nice. And the lady rose did it really awesomely.

[Lola Blanc]

It's so sweet that you find out the names of your makeup.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She asked me my name, and then I asked her her name.

[Lola Blanc]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was fun when I went to leave also, but my glam ended because it was the weekend, so I had no makeup on, and, fuck, that looked a lot like a scumbag. You saw me that morning, went to leave.

[Lola Blanc]

I told you in the morning you look beautiful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I can't have it.

[Lola Blanc]

I don't think I said beautiful. I think I said, you look so pretty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

I think beautiful is like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then I was like, get away from me in the valet area and ran away from you.

[Lola Blanc]

I was working ballet that morning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Georgia had her little hat on, and she brought my car around. I told her to get away from me, went and got a manicure. As I was getting rung up, a girl who was getting her manicure looked up at me and goes, karen. And I go, yeah. Cause I was like, oh, does she work with me? Is it somebody that, like, I haven't talked to that much? Whatever. And then she goes, I love your podcast. But she was like, she was getting a manicure, so she was kind of weirdly stuck. It wasn't like we could shake hands or say hi or anything. And I immediately got so that I had, like, these crazy nice nails. And then other than that, I really looked like I rolled out from under a bridge. I was like, oh, thanks.

[Lola Blanc]

Bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And just ran away so quickly. So I just wanted to say to that girl, if you're listening, which she might have quit at this point because I was so not all that friendly to her. Hi.

[Lola Blanc]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm sorry I didn't ask you what your name was. I'm sorry I didn't say. I'm sorry I didn't have a moment with you. I was kind of embarrassed. Um, I'm kind of embarrassed in general.

[Lola Blanc]

It's just like, how are you Feeling today kind of embarrassed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kind of generally embarrassed. Yeah, But I'm working on it.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. But I feel like. But the thing is, too, that she knows so much about you at this point and, like, doesn't expect you to. Like, she doesn't think you're going to be Chrissy fucking Teigen. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, we haven't fucking positioned ourselves to be Chrissy fucking. I mean, Chrissy Teigen seems like a chill chick, but, like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But she looks like, for some reason, I can't drop the Chrissy Teigen expectation. It's my problem.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, yeah. No one. I kind of am like, oh, maybe I look like. I kind of get that because I'm like, I'm not wearing makeup anymore. And then I'll see myself sometimes and be like, oh, my God, I look like I'm on my way to rehab.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

And, like, do people like my neighborhood cafe? Are they like, is she okay? I have, like, some acne scars right now, so it looks a little like I've been picking at my face, you know, like, yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want to be presentable.

[Lola Blanc]

Presentable?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You want to be presentable?

[Lola Blanc]

If I saw. If my mom saw me, who's a fucking. Really into images, everything, she'd be like. She'd be worried about me, my mom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have a tape in my head of my mom who used to always. If you would, like, walk through the kitchen, it would just be like, after school one day. Or like, casual time. My mom would be the one that go, oh, God, put some lipstick on. You look like a corpse. That was like, her great quote. So I have that kind of thing where I'm like, really in the house. You need me to wear lipstick, lady.

[Lola Blanc]

It's so Mom's. The minute she sees me, she tells me how something I am doing that. She likes it better when I do the other way around. Like, if I have short hair or, oh, I like your hair longer. Not like, you look cute. It's like, oh, I like your hair shorter. Like, it's just like, here's what you've done. That doesn't please me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

And I'm like, fuck you. You voted for Trump. What are you. Here's what you fucking mom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. You don't get to tell me nothing anymore.

[Lola Blanc]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Moms. Moms and dads do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I have a couple corners.

[Lola Blanc]

Can I tell you something I've never talked about?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Vince and I have this. I'm gonna share a real intimate. Not intimate, but an Inside joke that my husband and I have that we're the only people who know what this is, and we kind of love it and share it together. And I'm gonna just tell a few people right now. And every time we say any kind of corner thing, I think of this. So whenever the word corner comes up, Vince and I say to each other, corner, corner, corner. And the reason is because we would go to this, like, late night diner in Los Feliz called House of Pies. That's like the fucking best, like, old school diner. And there was this chick who was a waitress there who was like, late night waitress. You could tell she was on, like, Adderall and fucking, like, buzzing on coffee and shit. She was really cool, but she was, like, clearly buzzing. And every time she'd have hot plates on her. You know when you're a waitress and you have to say behind you, behind you. When you're like, behind someone with plates so they don't walk into you, she would come around the corner with these hot plates and go, corner, corner, corner, corner, corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cor.

[Lola Blanc]

So you'd be like, eating your chicken pot pie or whatever, and you just keep hearing, corner, corner, corner. And I would just fucking crack up. So whenever we hear someone say corner, and this is like three years ago, and we're still like, corner, corner, corner now, I just told everyone, so let's do corner, corner, corner time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it corner, corner, corner time.

[Lola Blanc]

It is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, we were at that live show, we got to meet some people afterwards, and there were two different girls who took the time to tell us that we. This podcast meant a lot to them because they were going through a really hard time and that they were like, the one girl said it. I'm sorry, I don't remember your name. The way you phrased it was. You were these great voices in my head when I only had bad voices in my head. And it was so touching to me, but it also was the same exact thing that a different girl said. And I was like. I said to her, just so you know, that's just what someone else said.

[Lola Blanc]

Shut up. I don't remember this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, the first girl said. And I was like, someone else just said that. And then she was like, where I was like, I wanted to go, like, go over there and talk to her, but that's weird. But it was just very. A, it was very touching that we could help somebody that would be in that position. But B, if you are in that position and you have those feelings, get help. Figure out a way to find a Therapist, go online, look it up. There's, you know, like, it's good to get help for yourself, and it's good to solve those problems. There are solvable problems. We've both been there.

[Lola Blanc]

And it's good to have friends, too. And I have to say, the Facebook group is those people are. Everyone's becoming friends, and everyone will talk to you, and everyone will help you with something. And it's like, a really good resource for people who listen to this because they need help, I think. I mean, I completely also get help from a fucking professional. But it is a really cool. I think a lot of people are making friends off of seems like it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we relate because. And we talk about this all the time. There are lots of podcasts I listen to that. When I listen to them, it like, it's my friends who have their own podcast or it's somebody else, you know, whatever that I love. But, like, I start listening to it and I feel better. I feel like I'm with people. I like, I feel like I'm hanging out. Like, my loneliness goes away, my anxiety goes away. And so we get it.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing at this meme I saw that says on the top what I'm like when I listen to podcasts. And it's this. Did you see this? It's this billboard of these three cute girls, like, eating ice cream. And then there's this dude sitting next to the billboard, like, laughing along with them and eating a bowl of ice cream. And it's like, me, too. It's like how you listen to podcasts, which I fucking. I'm the same way completely. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Now we have Laura Kilgare of Corner.

[Lola Blanc]

That's Sister. Sister, Sister Corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So my sister goes on the Facebook page and tells me stories that she loves, and she has great taste. So this one is especially awesome. And It's Kristin Michelle McClure's story that she posted on the Facebook page. And it's fucking crazy. So she says her boyfriend was sick. So she drove up to McAllister's in Addison, Texas, to pick up some food and iced tea for dinner. And the parking lot was pretty dark, and the only people there that late were the staff and one woman who left shortly after she got there. And when she got her order, she walked outside to see the woman from before smoking a cigarette. And suddenly she comes over to me. I switched it. Now it's first. Suddenly she comes over to me and says, hi. Oh, my God, it's so good. To see you. How have you been? And I'm sure I looked very confused as I responded. I'm sorry, I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't think I know you. And her voice got quiet and she said, pretend like you do. There's a man hiding behind your car. Fucking chills, you guys. I'm a very observant and spatially aware person, but I never would have known he was there if it wasn't for this amazing lady. So I let her walk me to my car. Oh, my God. And as I do, she explains that she saw him lurking as she was leaving and got a bad feeling, so she decided to wait for me.

[Lola Blanc]

What an angel.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Baby, that is so incredibly nice. And we really need to be doing that for each other. Sure enough, we get to my car and a man in a hoodie stands up from behind my passenger rear side and nonchalantly walks into the dumpster alley.

[Lola Blanc]

Dumpster alley is where fucking lurkers lurk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So as we're saying goodbye, she smiled and said, stay sexy, dude. Don't get murdered.

[Lola Blanc]

What the fuck are the chances?

[Karen Kilgariff]

A fellow murderino probably saved me from being robbed, assaulted, kidnapped, murdered, God knows what. And I'm so thankful for her. I didn't catch her name. But if you're listening or but if you're reading this, thank you. Let's listen to mfm, drink wine, and catch and watch murder documentaries sometime. So then there's an update from Cheney Coles with this girl. Holy shit, It's Cheney coles. Kristen Michelle McClure and Emily Burke and Chaney Coles is saying. So a lot of you probably saw Kristen's post yesterday about how a fellow murderino saved her when a hooded man was hiding behind her car at McAllister's. If you didn't scroll down, it's a crazy story. I live in Dallas, so I commented that I wanted to be her friend since we're practically neighbors. A few chats via messenger and Facebook friendship later, she and I and my Murderino best friend Emily met for drinks last night and discussed all kinds of murders. The tables around us thought we were weird, but we had a great time. This podcast and this group makes me so happy. Murderinos unite is the last line.

[Lola Blanc]

That's so sweet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When my sister sent me that, I started crying and I was like, that's the cool. That idea right there of somebody noticing something that might be bad and taking the time to look out for another person. And the idea that the reason they might do that is because they were emboldened by the shit that you and I say on this.

[Lola Blanc]

I love it. My therapist is trying to make me cry more, and I'm gonna try to do it because I really want to, but there's something inside of me that won't let me do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But.

[Lola Blanc]

Stop it. Yes. Keep going. I'm so proud of us. I left therapy the other day and just texted you. I'm really proud of us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You did? That's right.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm proud of us, too.

[Lola Blanc]

I want to cry and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, just don't do it now. You do it. I mean, Jesus Christ. And you're, like, sitting there like, I've gotta cry on this podcast.

[Lola Blanc]

I already did it today, so that's. I got it out of the way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You did it at lunch. It's just a cool thing. It's like, you know, it's a beautiful point.

[Lola Blanc]

Wonderful. And that's the point. I'm just proud of. I'm proud of us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good job, everybody.

[Lola Blanc]

Good job. You guys. We fucking did it. We're staying sexy. We're not getting murdered. We're making friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Extending yourself to people who might be in a bad place. That's kind of like. That's what we're looking for these days.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. And we're fucking, like. We're putting those fucking dumpster alley lurkers in their place of like, no, you can't fucking. You can't do this, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Or, you know, maybe that guy was peeing. Either way, that girl got in her car and got home safe in the end. You know what?

[Lola Blanc]

Peers can attack people, too. You know, maybe he was doing both. Maybe you had a pee, and it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Could have been a pee attack.

[Lola Blanc]

A pee attack. Ooh, this has been my favorite murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Lola Blanc]

That was gorgeous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my phone just told me Robert Durst hearings are. Is it tomorrow? It's. It's. Oh, the. February 15th. Sorry. It came up as an alert just now.

[Lola Blanc]

That's really weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, good job.

[Lola Blanc]

Hey, shall we talk about. How many minutes was that? We told people 10 minutes. 22. What the fuck? Hey, Siri, how many minutes? Oh, my God. Suri just started talking to me without me pressing anything. You think my place is. My new place is haunted?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Me too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're back.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, is this where corner, corner, corner started?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is. I don't remember me running away from you at the valet. What was that whole story?

[Lola Blanc]

No idea.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause I was, like, racking my brain of, like, where were we?

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, remember when you stepped off the curb at that restaurant across from Meltdown and you twisted your ankle.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was chibo. But also, remember the time we were walking out of, I think it was Milwaukee live show, and I just stepped off, did the exact same thing. I've done it many times.

[Lola Blanc]

You don't need a valet to twist your fucking hair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell no. I'll do it anytime. So that Facebook group story that we talk about in here, to me was the dawning of the galvanized community vibe of Murderinos as opposed to the. I'd say the first year is like you and me blabbing it up, saying whatever the fuck that came into our minds, not understanding it was being recorded and posted forever.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that we would be hearing about that. So I think to me, that was the first year of like, wait, what are we actually doing?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. And this is before people started realizing that their coworker or their sister's friend or their running club partner was also listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

And then forming a bond over it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And then that Facebook story is almost like, then the bond was, I'm gonna go out into the with this energy. So if I see some weird shit happening to some girl I don't know, I'm going to back her up.

[Lola Blanc]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's amazing.

[Lola Blanc]

Beautiful thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

We're so proud.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were just kind of like the thing around which people decided they were going to do things the way they wanted to do them.

[Lola Blanc]

There you go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Lola Blanc]

All right, well, should we get into it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's do it.

[Lola Blanc]

This episode is two awful, awful stories of two of the worst men that have ever existed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For real. This first one. This is Georgia's story about Nathaniel Bargen.

[Lola Blanc]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

I think you're first this week.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, so let, let's start. What was that show called that you recently told me? The New Detectives. I had a story and then realized when looking it up that they had covered the story on that show. Not New Detectives.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Real Detectives.

[Lola Blanc]

Real Detectives. And so there was so much more to the story. So I was like, okay, I'm still gonna do this, but I'm gonna give a shout out to the show Karen likes at the same time. All right, so in Worcester, Massachusetts in 1964, a kid named Nathaniel Bar Jonah is seven years old. He tells a five year old neighbor that he had just gotten a Ouija board and she follows him into his bas to play with it. He attempts to strangle the five year old girl. The seven year old attempts to strangle the five year old girl. She screams. His own mother comes down and rescues her. So like his mom knows something's up already, you know what I mean? So this fucking seven year old. Cut to six years later, in 1970, he's 13 years old, he lures another neighbor, a six year old boy, to a nearby hill saying that he wants to go sledding with him. And of course he didn't go sledding. He ends up sexually assaulting the kid. And then in March 1975, 17 year old Nathaniel Bar Jonah, he's doing the fucking classic impersonation of an officer. A police officer abducts an 8 year old kid named Richard O' Connor who's on his way to school, sexually assaults and strangles him. A neighbor saw this happening and notifies the police. They find a car matching the description in a parking lot. They get him out of the car and the kid is found in the car, near death, but alive. So Nathaniel is arrested, charged and convicted, but he receives. You ready for this? A year of probation for this crime?

[Karen Kilgariff]

How?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, because it's 1970, but okay, probation. The kid's not dead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, he must have had some insane lawyer or some kind of. Yeah, that's crazy.

[Lola Blanc]

No, I think that happened all the. Well, it gets worse, okay? It always gets worse. So a few days before he Graduates from high school, he's again impersonating a police officer and he abducts a nine year old girl who he assaults savagely in his car. And then later throws her from the car onto a sidewalk. She's still alive. And a witness gets his license plate, which leads to his arrest. And this assault never gets back to his probation officer. And so he's released from parole from the earlier assault in 1976. And so when his probationary period is over, he receives a letter thanking him for his cooperation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he never gets no sorry, what?

[Lola Blanc]

His parole ends in 76. They catch him and I don't know if he ever got charged with anything after they found the kid, after he threw her out of her car. But the parole officer never finds or probation officer never finds out about it. So nothing is added to his what the fuck? So in September 1977, he's claiming to be an undercover FBI agent and he convinces two boys to get into his car. He goes to a secluded area with them and he handcuffs them and assaults them. And he thought he had killed one of the boys. So he took the other one, still alive, in his trunk and drove off. But the kid he thought was dead was not dead. He regains consciousness and fucking finds help. And the boy who was kidnapped is found still alive in Nathaniel's trunk. So he's caught, convicted of attempted murder and gets the maximum sentence of 18 to 20 years in prison. So fucking finally he's being incarcerated. So while he's incarcerated he tells a psychologist there about his fantasies of murder, dissection and cannibalism. It's a psychiatrist. And she, that psychiatrist decides to commit him to the Bridgewater State Hospital for the sexual predators. Which I think means that you don't have a release date. I think they can keep you indefinitely. I could be wrong. Guy Brenham, please let me know. So he stays in the hospital from 79 to 91 when there's a hearing before Superior Court Judge Walter E. Steele, who needs to be fucking named. Two psychiatrists say that Nathaniel Barjona is a danger to society and he should not be let out. Two of them said he isn't. So we got two and two. The judge sides with the. I said the judge sided with the stupid ones and said that he thought that Nathaniel Barjona would not commit the crime again and decided that he, the state had failed to prove he was dangerous. So this dude fuckin Superior Court Judge Walter E. Steele lets Bar Jonah out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Does his family have money? He must have amazing lawyers.

[Lola Blanc]

I don't think it was that difficult then though, you know what I mean? There's no Megan's Law. There's none of this shit where it, like where they think predators and sexual abusers are even important enough to let their next door neighbor who has children know that they're there. Like it's not a priority.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but it's, I mean these are attacks, they're physical attacks. It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. It'd just be like he attacks a little girl, throws her out of a car and thanks for doing such a great job on your parole. Like that doesn't even track.

[Lola Blanc]

No, it doesn't. And it's the same when you're talking with Guy Brenham where it's like, well, his intent was to kill these people. Why isn't he kept in prison in the same amount of time that someone who had actually killed them are? And it's just because he got lucky. He just kept getting lucky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I mean that's beyond lucky where he's not getting arrested for it. Like he's not even.

[Lola Blanc]

I think it's a fucked up justice system at the time. I think that's all it is. So he leaves the institution and he promises to not go back to Massachusetts, that instead he'll go to Montana. But Megan's Law is still being debated. It's not enacted yet. Which you know, as everyone knows, Megan's Law is that you, if you're a sexual offender, you have to notify everyone in the community and they're allowed to know where you live and all this. So, okay, so he has weekly garage sales selling Star wars memorabilia and stuffed animals that attract many local children. And let's see, within a week he commits another attack on a child. And then no one in Montana is notified of his past crimes at all. So on February 6, 1996, 10 year old Zachary Ramsey is on his way to school. At about 7:30am he takes his usual school route through the alleyway. And remember those fucking shortcuts he used to take to school? Like the shortcuts I used to take as a kid. The amount of places I could have been murdered in is just more than I couldn't have been murdered in, you know what I mean? Like fucking alleyways and like back alleys and fucking. What are those called? Like the dry riverbeds and just these horrible places. And a family who lives along the alleyway reports seeing him, but also sees an off white four door car that nearly runs him over. Another witness who Lived in the area, sees him distressed with an obese adult male following him a few feet behind at about 7:45. Zach then disappears, which is another thing of fucking. If you see something, fucking say something. If you see a little kid upset with an adult and something doesn't look right, you can be rude and be like, is everything okay here? You know what I mean? You're not going to get in trouble for it. Let's see. Okay. So the police investigate Zach Ramsey's kidnapping. And it turns out that Nathaniel Bar Jonah, who was a known sex offender in the area, although there were a lot of them, has access to his mom's off white four door Toyota Corolla. The day that Zach goes missing and his mother was out of town for a funeral and so he had the house to himself and he also didn't work that day. So he stays away from the police until 99 when he's arrested near an elementary school in Great Falls, Montana. He's dressed as a policeman, he's carrying a stun gun and pepper spray and is like fucking targeting one of the kids there. And they search his apartment and they find a list of boys names, including previous victims that he had actually had and the name Zachary Ramsey, the last word of which was died because he had done these crazy encryptions. And so when the FBI finally took apart everything, they found all of these names. There's dozens of newspaper clippings found in his apartment following the Zach Ramsey case. And a former roommate said that he found clothes in his apartment which matched Zachary Ramsey's clothes that he was wearing the day he disappeared, and bloody gloves. So they also found encrypted menus referring to cannibalizing children. And there were actual. I don't want to. I don't know if you want to hear them, but like names of, of meals that were like puns on children being the fucking on the menu. It's pretty. Fuck. It's like, it's almost. It's too, like, it takes too light. I don't like it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's gross because he thinks he's being like funny. Yeah, it's just a disgusting sense of humor.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, it's not, it's not amusing in any way. It's fucked up. And it's also said that he possibly cut up and served human meat of his victims to his neighbors at barbecues and cookouts and stews and hamburgers. And there was one woman, his neighbor, who said, this tastes really weird. What is this? And he said, oh, it's a deer I found. And I cut it up myself. And she remembers it tasting weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, he would have barbecues. Can you fucking imagine the eating disorder you would have if you were that neighbor?

[Lola Blanc]

Can you imagine ever? You'd be vegan for the rest of your life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Lola Blanc]

Never eat meat again. I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is really horrible.

[Lola Blanc]

I know. Okay. And they also find a list of 22 names, many which were past victims, known victims, but several have never been accounted for. And they also dug up the yard and found 21 bone fragments of a yet to be identified boy, estimated between 8 and 13. And it's not Zach Ramsey's bones. Okay? So in July 2000, he's charged with Zach Ramsey's murder and for kidnapping and sexually assaulting three other boys who lived above him in an apartment complex who he would babysit. The mom would just leave him, leave the kids with him, even though she was like, yeah, one of them started acting real weird after I'd let him babysit. And it's like, I didn't. You. So. But the charges involving Zach Ramsey's murder are dropped because Zach's mom refused to believe that he was dead. And so would testify that Nathaniel Barjona never killed her son. She was gonna testify to that. But he's sentenced for the other charges to 130 years in prison. It's for sexually assaulting one kid and torturing another. And on April 13, 2008, Nathaniel Barjona is found dead in his prison cell. His death in is either a heart attack or a brain clot. I can't really. A lot of different, you know, articles. And then eventually, a judge declares Zach Ramsey legally dead in 2011, despite his mom still objecting to that. How fucked up is that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's super fucked up.

[Lola Blanc]

It's like one of those murder. It's like one of those articles that's like 10 serial killers you've never fucking heard. 10 monsters you've never heard of. And, like, why are you. Why are these other people heard of and he's not. He's just as huge of a fucking monster.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's the real detectives that I saw. That was the first one I saw.

[Lola Blanc]

With the detective who's like, crying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was crazy. And he chased that guy forever. And he literally chased. He tracked him down, and by the time somebody said, oh, well, he kept hearing, oh, they went on the shortcut. So. So he walked the shortcut himself. Finally, like, it was like beat cops were telling him the information. So he finally himself walked the shortcut. And when he Came up the alley. Bar Jonas was standing at the top of the alley dressed like a security guard across the street from the grammar school. And the guy in the show is like, you know, like. And that's when I knew I had my guy. And the most horrible part, like I looked into that too, of like, oh, would this be a good one to do? The details are so fucking disturbing. There's a lot that are really dark. It's awful. It's just like. Yeah, it's that kind of thing where it's like, oh, that's interesting. I feel like maybe that's a reason why he's one that you don't hear that much about. It's cause it's like insanely disgusting and awful and he did it to a bunch of kids.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, what's so surprising to me about this story, and one of the reasons I think it's important to talk about is because Zach Ramsey was taking these shortcuts in 1996. Like it wasn't the 80s or even the early 90s, which is when I was doing those things. It seems like more recent. And I feel like he was alone early in the morning. And I know it seems like a well traveled place and everyone's going to school, but you can't do those things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't think anyone does anymore.

[Lola Blanc]

And especially because people saw that happening and were like, this is weird. And like went on with their day. Right. It's just so troubling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and also that guy dressed. He did. I mean, he was like a real. He knew what he was doing. Like dressing like a security guard. That thing that people fall for all the time where it's like, oh, it's a cop, it's a security guard. It's the person standing outside the school that's dressed like an official. Must be a good person. And to see like, yeah, it's. Yeah, it's crazy. And also that he did it. I mean the idea that like his first thing was when he was seven years old.

[Lola Blanc]

I couldn't find any information about his childhood and how, you know, it could have not been fucked up at all. It could just be fucking crazy. But there had to be something going on. That he would try to strangle a five year old when he was seven.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Makes you think of Mary Bell.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, totally. Just an outright evil kid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also what's happening. I mean, Mary Bell was a total victim as a very young child and that affects you.

[Lola Blanc]

And I wonder what could have happened. Like his mom found him strangling a little Girl, you know what could have been done to help him at that age.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And clearly nothing was.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah, clearly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So intense.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also the really creepy thing is like Seven. It's like the movie Seven where he had all these notebooks. Just tons and tons and tons of notebooks that they recovered that was he obsessively wrote about. I mean, he was. Yeah, he was insanely crazy.

[Lola Blanc]

It's like he knew that if he did get caught, he wanted there to be as much information as possible so he'd be talked about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And then I did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And if you watch that episode of Real Detectives, the real detective that solves that case, who talks about it like at one point is crying on camera like he is. So clearly it's one of those things where that's the case of a lifetime. And so horrible.

[Lola Blanc]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Horrifying.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we're done with that now.

[Lola Blanc]

Let's talk about that again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Breath. Are there updates on this horrible case?

[Lola Blanc]

Horrible case. No updates, but two books have come out recently about his crimes. Preponderance of Evil, the Nathaniel Bar Jonah Story by Lori Olson and also the book Eat the evidence by Dr. John E. Espy. Those two came out in the past few years. So if you want more info. I mean, I've done deep dives since then on this story. It's just so awful. But yeah, there you go. All right, let's get into another terrible fucking person. God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And much more famous.

[Lola Blanc]

Much more famous. Let's hear Karen's story about none other than Rodney Alcala. The dating game killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Lola Blanc]

You wanna go?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Woo. You mean leave right now? Mine is very well known. This week it's Rodney Alcala, the Dating Game Killer. This one I've seen. I've seen the forensic files of this guy. I have seen like a 2020, like almost everything on Discovery ID. There's been every version of one of those shows they have featured this guy.

[Lola Blanc]

Cause it's the Dating Game thing is such a fucking. That's what did it for his fame.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's so insane. But there was one of those shows that kind of reverse engineered it where they followed the victim. And now I don't remember the show, I don't remember which victim it is because he has so very many. But it's that thing where basically this girl goes missing and her family's trying to find her, her family's trying to find her. And then eventually this cache of photographs because Rodney Alcala is this photographer and when he's finally arrested and they start going through thousands and thousands of photographs, they find a picture of her and they finally realize, I think it was the hiker. She was a hiker and she was like a real outdoors woman. And then they find a picture among all these really disturbing pictures and they can't identify all.

[Lola Blanc]

Like there's so many of those photos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are like tons of.

[Lola Blanc]

Do you know who this is or are they missing or what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cold cases. They say they're still online. Okay, so here's the basic story and we'll start it here. In 1978 on the popular TV show the Dating Game, host Jim Lang introduced Rodney Alcala as bachelor number one. Is a successful photographer who got his start when his father found him in the dark room at age 13, fully developed.

[Lola Blanc]

Wait, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's the show. Have you ever seen that show? But what, so it's like sexual innuendo basically. It's basically like the fun sexual innuendo. When you're not a serial rapist and killer is fun, but when you are is so horrifying. And the rest of that is between takes. You might find him skydiving or motorcycling or murdering. Actor Jed Mills, who was bachelor number two on the show and competed against Alcala, described him as a very strange guy with very bizarre opinions. And the funny thing is, the bachelorette, Cheryl Bradshaw, chose Alcala. He won the Dating Game, but when she met him, she refused to go out with him because she found him so creepy.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh my God, I want to talk to her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was right to find him creepy because he had already raped an eight year old girl and murdered four women when he was on that show.

[Lola Blanc]

Four women already. And then he's like, I'm gonna go on tv.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a hockey player. So he was basically mid killing spree that had started, they believe in. Well, he raped the 8 year old girl in 1968 and then the killing began soon after. And he in the middle of all that goes on a game show. So yeah, he's completely out of his goddamn mind. And kind of like Luke Magnotti, like it's that thing of like, like I want to be famous, I want everyone to see me.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, but you can't catch me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I'm smart. I'm smarter than everybody. He did have 160 IQ, so he kind of was smarter than everybody in a way.

[Lola Blanc]

Fair enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he committed his first known crime in 1968. A motorist in Los Angeles called the police after watching him lure an 8 year old girl named Tali Shapiro into his Hollywood apartment. The girl was found alive, raped and beaten with a steel bar. But Alcala had already fled. So to evade the resulting arrest warrant, he left the state and he enrolled in NYU film school under the name John Berger, where he studied under Roman Polanski.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, that's convenient.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, then he obtained, in 1971, he got a counseling job at a New Hampshire arts camp for children using a different alias, John Berger. But In June of 1971, Cornelia Crilley, a 23 year old trans TWA flight attendant, was found raped and strangled in her Manhattan apartment. That Cornelia's murder would remain unsolved for 40 years.

[Lola Blanc]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she was one of the ones that when they found the pictures, they started putting it up all together.

[Lola Blanc]

They're like this person was missing or murdered. We don't know. Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So now Alcala's on the. In 1971, he goes on the 10 Most Wanted Fugitives list. And a few months later, two children who are at this arts camp that he got the job at, they notice his photo on an FBI poster at the post office and they finger him. Fuck.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, they do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some kids. So he's extradited to California, but by then that 8 year old girl that he had attacked, her parents had relocated the entire family to Mexico and they weren't coming back.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they were unable to convict him.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of rape and attempted murder. So the prosecutors were forced to permit him to plead to a lesser charge of assault. So he's paroled after 34 months. And assault. Yeah, he basically. It's the same thing if he demonstrated evidence of rehabilitation. He got out early.

[Lola Blanc]

Be nice for 34 months and you can get out whenever the fuck you want. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So two months after his release, he's rearrested after assaulting a 13 year old girl who he had offered a ride to school and she thought she was just getting a ride to school. And again he's paroled after serving two years of an indeterminate sentence. So after that release from prison, a la parole officer takes the unusual step of permitting this repeat offender and known flight risk to travel to New York City now. Irritating, but. But if he has 160 IQ and he's this level psychopath, he's probably incredibly charming and incredibly manipulative.

[Lola Blanc]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he's, he's, you know, I mean, it just sucks. He makes it work. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, a lot of people just aren't capable of handling this level. This is like a super villain.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, it's savvy as fuck. And even a person who's of normal intelligence don't understand the like the nuances of manipulation. Probably.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Have you seen the show Good Behavior with the girl who's Mary from Downton Abbey?

[Lola Blanc]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's really good.

[Lola Blanc]

Is it? I love when we do TV show recommendations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and also so in it she's like a con woman and she does these things. Like she started off being a con woman because she was addicted to drugs, but now she's doing it just to get money and like watch it. It's really good. But she does these things and you see how easy it would be to fall for it because she'll go in and she has a really nice outfit on and she looks like she has a lot of money and she's like a high end resort. And then she's shopping for jewelry. So she'll be like, oh, can I see that there? My husband wants. My husband said I could get one thing and so I'm gonna pick it. And so while the guy, she's shopping and chatting and giggling and they're drinking champagne and then she's making the guy go get her things away from the counter. And while he's gone, she's just loading her purse with the jewelry she's trying on. But she's doing these switch arounds so she's like never. You know what I mean? It's all very believable. And then she walks out. He's not gonna know anything is gone until way later. And that's what it makes me think of.

[Lola Blanc]

Did she see the movie Paper Moon. It's one of my favorite movies in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The world with the o' Neill family.

[Lola Blanc]

Tatum o' Neill and Ryan o'. Neill, and they do that. And it's. They're. They're grifters. And it's just one of my absolute favorite movies. And you would never fucking know what that's doing. It's so good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's because you have to be good to get away with it.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's how you're good.

[Lola Blanc]

Casual. You have to be casual about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you have to be, like, friendly and kind of charming and alluring. So people are like, oh, no, it would never be her. The pretty. They're probably good looking.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, I get nervous that people think I'm shoplifting even when I have no intention and I'm never gonna shoplift. It's like, I'm still like, I'm not top. So you have to be pretty fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You have to be like, steely. Steely, but also, like, super charming. So clearly that's this guy. So he convinces his parole officer to let him go to New York. And while he's there, a week after he gets to Manhattan, he kills Ellen Jane hover, who is 23 and the daughter of the owner of Ciro's, which is a Hollywood nightclub. She was the goddaughter of Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr. She was like an heiress. She had a lot of money. And her remains were found buried on the grounds of the Rockefeller Estate in Westchester County.

[Lola Blanc]

How did he even get in there?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I have no idea.

[Lola Blanc]

Whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He probably went to, like, a club and she was there. And you see pictures of him. He's super creepy now because you see pictures of him in jail and he has really long, like, salt and pepper.

[Lola Blanc]

Creepy curly hair, like ramen, dry ramen hair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But, you know, back then it was like the late 70s and it was that kind of looking for Mr. Goodbar era of, like, pickup clubs. And everyone was like, post hippie, you know, feeling it era. I don't know. But he also did the thing where he was a photographer, Right. He was playing, like, the artist side for a little while. He worked at the LA Times as a typesetter, and he was at one point interviewed by the members of the Hillside Strangler Task Force as part of their investigation when they were interviewing known sex offenders. He was ruled out as the Hillside Strangler, but he got arrested and served a brief sentence for marijuana possession. So they got him for that, thank God. But he also, during this time he convinced a bunch of young men and women that he was a professional fashion photographer and photographed them for his portfolio. And he showed that portfolio to his co workers at the LA Times. And there were people who are quoted as saying, I thought it was weird, but I didn't know because he said he was like a fashion photographer. And so I just remember there was a bunch of naked girls.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he would show it to people like, this is my portfolio.

[Lola Blanc]

Creepy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so fucking creepy. So he's totally flaunting it. And of course everyone's just like, oh, I guess that's high fashion photography. So in 1979, he knocks unconscious and rapes 15 year old Monique Hoyt as she's posing for him for one of those shoots. And then he goes on the Dating Game, which was also In, I believe, 1979, around that same time. And they think that because. Or he was on the dating game in 1978. So they think because of that rejection of the girl on the Dating Game being like, there's no fucking way I'm going out with that guy. Because right after that, a 12 year old girl from Huntington beach named Robin Samsoe disappeared on her way between the beach and ballet class. It was June 20, 1979 when this happened. Twelve days later, her decomposing body was found in the Los Angeles foothills.

[Lola Blanc]

You know, I did, I did something like that. A guy saying, I'm a photographer when I was like 17. No, like 18.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you did what?

[Lola Blanc]

I went and took photos with him in the fucking Santa Monica mountains.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Lola Blanc]

I've never told anyone this. There's this guy should have killed me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he just took pictures of you and drove you home?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, he was a regular at this restaurant I was working at and was like, he came in all the time and he's like, I'm a photographer, I'd love to take photos of you. And I'm like, okay. And we went up to Santa Monica Hills and that was when I was like, oh shit, I'm alone with this guy in the fucking forest, in the fucking hills overlooking the ocean. And like there was. He was so nice at the restaurant and the minute his eye went to the camera lens, he looked fucking evil. I remember thinking, you need to fucking. This is not okay. And so I kept asking about his mom and he kept telling me about his mother. And it was almost like I kind of knew something was not right and I needed to talk to him a lot. And then we just went home. But my heart was racing. The Whole time. Jesus Christ. And I don't know what happened to him. And I kind of just. I think I quit soon after that. It was just. I should have been dead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's insane.

[Lola Blanc]

I know. And I'm so embarrassed of that that I don't fucking tell people that. But it reminds me so much of the story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Well, also. Cause there's another guy that's on, like. I've seen like three different, you know, id, discovery things about the guy that he would approach women in malls and say that he was a photographer, that he was a casting director.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He wanted to take their picture because he was casting for the latest. Was it Batman? I don't know. Or the latest big movie. And they would go meet him and then they would disappear. And they were meeting him at houses that were for sale.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So he was going in and basically meeting them in empty, like, houses that he knew that the real estate agent was showing. He would go have it shown to him, have them meet them there and then attack them there. And he had killed a couple girls and then one girl got away and that's how he got caught. So it's this exact same thing.

[Lola Blanc]

And I mean, I don't want to say it because I feel so stupid, but I was like 18 and I was new to LA and I was so flattered that someone wanted to take my photo. And it was the 90s and I didn't understand and I thought I knew this person. He was so nice all the time. Of course. So when I say fuck politeness, it's because I've done shit that have probably been really unsafe. And it's just. I wanna cry thinking about it. I feel so fucking stupid for having done that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. But that's the whole manipulation is that they're playing on. Then we're supposed to be embarrassed that we had the pride. Who are we to think that we'd have our picture taken when actually that. That's the play. That's the whole thing is how they get you is like, of course you're flattered. And then you have a little ego stroke and then, oh, my God, maybe I am a model. And it's all those things that. Then it's the shame of that. That's supposed to keep you quiet and fuck that shit. It's like, that's their doing. That's what they're doing to you. Any human being that gets that kind of special attention is going to go, oh, my God, Yeah, I want that special attention that's what we all want.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, that's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everybody wants to be told that they're pretty and want, you know, have their picture taken. And that's. It's the easiest way to manipulate people.

[Lola Blanc]

And I just remember the moment it took a turn and I got scared and realized something was not right. Thank fucking God nothing happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, okay.

[Lola Blanc]

Sorry. Go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, so Robin Samsoe's friends told the police that a stranger had approached them at the beach asking to take their pictures. And they circulate a sketch of the photographer. Alcala's parole officer recognizes him in this sketch. And then they search his house in Monterey park, and they find a rental receipt for a storage locker in Seattle. So then they go into that storage locker and they find a pair of Robin Samsoe's earrings. So he's basically killing people in the. Taking the. Why don't I ever remember the word for it?

[Lola Blanc]

Trophy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, the trophy. But then he's keeping it, like, in a different state.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he's arrested in 1979, held without bail. He's tried, convicted, and sentenced to death for Robin Samso's murder. But the verdict is overturned because jurors had been improperly informed of his prior sex crimes.

[Lola Blanc]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then in 1986, seven years later, they retry him for the same. It's the identical trial, except for omission of the prior record. And he's convicted again and sentenced to death again. And the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals panel nullifies the second conviction.

[Lola Blanc]

Why?

[Karen Kilgariff]

In part because a witness was not allowed. Who was not allowed? No, sorry. A witness was not allowed to support Alcala's contention that the park ranger who found Samso's body had been, quote, hypnotized by police investigators. So there was somebody that wanted to. Alcala said this park ranger was hypnotized by the police. That's why he's saying this happened. He had a friend who was gonna back him up, and they were like, no, your friend doesn't get to say that. And then they find. Once they find that out, they're like, the whole thing has to go.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they keep getting it on these weird little details.

[Lola Blanc]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this goes.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, he's in prison the whole time, though, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He is, yeah. He's held without bail. I'm not sure. If you ask me details about this, I'm not going to be able to tell you. I threw this together so quickly. But this is the kind of thing you can look up his name and watch 1000 shows. About him because basically they say he's like. Because of these pictures and the cold cases that they believe are associated with these pictures. He only goes to jail for four murders, but they think he's responsible for over 100.

[Lola Blanc]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They just can't prove it.

[Lola Blanc]

Over a hundred.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Over a hundred. He's one of the worst serial killers ever. Oh, my God. And he's still alive and in jail.

[Lola Blanc]

Doesn't he keep appealing? I keep seeing him in. I keep seeing him getting older and older in, like news photos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With that crazy hair. Well, he does. He has all these. And it's crazy because he's again, one of those geniuses that's like, at one point he represents himself and. And then cross examines himself and is talking in a deep voice as one person and then his own voice and the other. It's that kind of total insanity thing that you. That's Ted Bundy. He represented himself. They all kind of think, like, they just think you're invincible and that they're the smartest people in the world. But essentially, in 2003, Orange county investigators, they learned alcoholism, DNA had matched semen left at the rape murder scenes of two women in Los Angeles. And that's when they start linking cold case DNA to this guy. And it led to his indictment for the murders of four additional women. Jill Barcombe, who was 18, a New York runaway who was found rolled up like a ball in a Los Angeles Ravine in 1977. They thought she was a victim of the Hillside stranglers. Georgia was 27, who was bludgeoned in her Malibu apartment in 1977, which is super weird because Malibu is so fucking Tony and high end. And this is that thing of, like, the sister Ciro's heiress, who he clearly was able to be in and out of very tony high end places. And with those kind of people.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, you don't break into a high end Malibu location. No, you talk your way in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, I feel weird at Starbucks in Malibu. Like you just feel like you don't belong.

[Lola Blanc]

Totally. And they know it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Charlotte Lamb was 31. She was raped and strangled in the laundry room of her El Segundo apartment complex in 1978. And Jill Parento, who was 21, who was killed in her Burbank apartment in 1979. And all of these bodies were found posed in carefully chosen positions, which I think then they eventually led to understanding that he was posing them and taking pictures of them.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they found another pair of earrings in the Seattle storage locker that matched Charlotte Lamb's DNA. So they're kind of. It all starts hooking back over and over. So eventually, the police find a collection of more than 1,000 photographs, and they're mostly of women and teenage boys in sex, sexually explicit poses. In his third trial in 2003, prosecutors enter a motion to join the samso charges with those of the four newly discovered victims. And so his attorneys, of course, try to contest it. Like you basically saying you can give benefit of the doubt or whatever they call it, reasonable doubt, for one, but you can't do it with four. But they ruled in the prosecution's favor. And In February of 2010, he stood trial on five joined charges.

[Lola Blanc]

I can't believe it was so recent.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Isn't that weird?

[Lola Blanc]

It seems like it should have been so long ago this happened because he.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was doing it for so fucking long. But I think it was that thing of they had him on one and he was in jail for one, and then suddenly it was that DNA era that came through, and it was like all of a sudden. And that was when all those specials come out is like in the late 90s, we're like, they just found this guy. A lot of them have that feel to it of like, this guy. Pardon me. When he was his own lawyer, he showed the jury a portion of his 1978 appearance on the dating game in an attempt to prove that the earrings that were found in that Seattle locker were his own and not. Not samsoes. And they end up bringing Jed Mills, bachelor number two to this trial.

[Lola Blanc]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that he can say, I would have remembered if a guy was wearing earrings. It was 1978. He was not wearing earrings.

[Lola Blanc]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it was that crazy. And then eventually they get Talia, the eight year old girl that he had raped in the late 60s.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she comes and testifies so that they can keep this guy in jail.

[Lola Blanc]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In March 2010, the Huntington beach and New York city police departments released 120of his photographs, seeking the public's help to identify the people in them in hope of determining if any of the women and children he photographed were additional victims. There are 900 additional photos that could not be made public because they were too sexually explicit. So he was like a fucking kitty. Kiddie porn, you know, like pornographer, exploitive pig, obviously. Wow. The police reported that approximately 21 women had come forward to identify themselves, and six families said that they believe they recognized loved ones who had disappeared years ago and were never found. They saw their missing loved ones in these photos, but none of them. The photos were unequivocally connected to a missing person case or an unsolved murder until 2013, when a family member recognized the photo of Christine Thornton, who was 28, whose body was found in Wyoming in 1982.

[Lola Blanc]

I did not even hear about this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And as of September 2016 last year, 110 of those original photos remain posted online in the place. Continue to solicit the public's help with further identifications.

[Lola Blanc]

Let's all go to them right fucking now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In 2016, he was charged with this 1977 murder of a woman who was identified through one of those photos.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And just in closing, which I find fascinating and interesting, his diagnoses. When he was in court, the psychiatrist diagnosed him as having a narcissistic personality disorder and malignant narcissistic personality disorder with psychopathy and sexual sadism. Comorbidities.

[Lola Blanc]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Comorbidities.

[Lola Blanc]

That's the fucking trifecta you don't want to end up with.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You don't want the word comorbidities anywhere near you.

[Lola Blanc]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you want to know what it means? It's the presence of one or more additional diseases or disorders, co occurring.

[Lola Blanc]

Including morbid. Including. Sounds worse Liking dead bodies, maybe?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I think morbid just is like gruesome or something. We'll have to ask Guy Brannon.

[Lola Blanc]

We will have to ask. I'm sure everyone will tell us on Twitter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was not the greatest version of trying to tell the Rodney Alcala story.

[Lola Blanc]

No, that was very. That was very detailed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did I do all right?

[Lola Blanc]

You did a great timeline. Really interesting. I had some personal information to share as well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I liked that.

[Lola Blanc]

You know what I mean? It actually gets worse than that. And I'll tell you afterwards, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no, no.

[Lola Blanc]

I know. Yeah. It was a good story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I just recommend anybody that's if you are slightly interested, take a deep dive because he is really horrifying and kind of another one of those lesser known but very depraved and horrifying monster people.

[Lola Blanc]

This was an episode of Monster People. Monster people from the depths of fucking hell.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Plus the Dating Game.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Plus the Dating Game. Plus, the Pacific Northwest has always got a mix in there.

[Lola Blanc]

Somehow, you know, it just has to be in there. It's depressing. O yve we're back. Karen. Updates.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are updates. So it was eventually confirmed that Rodney Alcala killed at least seven women and young girls. He was sentenced to death in California. He died of natural causes in July of 2021. While awaiting that execution. And then after his death, a woman named Morgan Rowan reached out to investigator Steve Hodel to share details of her 1968 attack. She was 16 at the time, and she had met Alcala on a few different occasions. She was attacked and raped at his house, and her friends broke into the room to rescue her. And then he fled.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she said she was ashamed to tell her parents she never reported the attack. Thing. That happens a lot to. She learns of his attack, rape, and the survival of Tally Shapiro. And she, of course, struggles with guilt for decades. Eventually, she connects with Tally and apologizes. And when she does, Tally tells her there was nothing to forgive. It wasn't her fault. And these two survivors, they live a few hours apart in California, but they remain chosen family to each other.

[Lola Blanc]

I've seen that. There's a documentary about it, and these strong, incredible women are in it. And it's just. I highly recommend it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Also during the story, I talked about my experience at 18 with that guy who drove me to the Santa Monica hills to take my picture. So I've discussed it in our book, Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered in the Fuck Politeness chapter. I also talk about on episode 472, give me all My words. So there you go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think that in doing that, though, I think you are in a gray area where you get to speak for people who. If you've had experiences that in your mind, you've always filed it as less than bad, less than a friend's, less than a different story that you've heard, that you're always mitigating your own trauma process, basically by saying, don't worry about it. Cause it's not bad. And you gave yourself and then other people permission to go. It's as bad as I say it was to me, because it happened to me.

[Lola Blanc]

And then also. Yeah, for sure. And then also the understanding that I have of so many moments in my life that I'm sure we all do, of, like, by the skin of my teeth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, what could have happened? And I think about that so much, and I'm embarrassed and ashamed. And so I don't talk about it because I think it's my fault. I'm stupid for having done that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

But that's not. That's not how we talk about ourselves and our experiences.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. And it's certainly not the way the women of today do it. They don't do that to themselves. So us Gen Xers and late millennials and all the that were raised on that bullshit can really just put it aside, I think from now on.

[Lola Blanc]

Definitely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Okay, let's listen to the end of episode 54. How about a good thing?

[Lola Blanc]

How about a good thing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

How about it?

[Lola Blanc]

I did my apartment, my new apartment, last time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's beautiful.

[Lola Blanc]

Thank you. I really like it. Why don't you do. Oh, no, no. I did the Jacuzzi cat last time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jacuzzi cat.

[Lola Blanc]

And I saw your picture on my Instagram.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jacuzzi cat is real.

[Lola Blanc]

Hardstark is my Instagram. And there's a fucking sweet picture of Jacuzzi cat who I've seen since Gus, the Jacuzzi cat is legit, and he's so chill.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Legit and the real deal.

[Lola Blanc]

He is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess I've already bragged now twice at you about my best thing, but my best thing is just. It's so fun to work on a job right now. It's just fun to perform again on tv. It's really fun to have fake eyelashes on all day long.

[Lola Blanc]

Love fake eyelashes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aren't they the best?

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God. They make you feel like a queen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's pretty fun. And for me, like, it's just a period of. I just didn't think I was gonna be performing anymore. And like, 10 years ago, if you would ask me if any of these things would be happening, I'd be like, you're insane. I'm stuck in an office building in Burbank, and I will never leave here. So I'm very. I feel grateful and I. And, like, kind of just excited and I don't know.

[Lola Blanc]

No, I'm happy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel fingernails, fingernails, fingernails about it.

[Lola Blanc]

What's that mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, it's kind of fancy. And like, oh, yeah, maybe I should have a manicure. Like, maybe I should try.

[Lola Blanc]

You need to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've been in, like, a bit. I've said this a million times, but I've been in a. I've been in a cave for almost a decade, and.

[Lola Blanc]

Look at you coming out of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look at me in the. Out of the cave.

[Lola Blanc]

I love it. And it's all because of nail. Probably the thing I love and I cried about it is I've been posting political stuff on Instagram and Twitter. And you know how scary it is to do that because you're immediately, like, refreshing to see people saying mean stuff to you. But so many people have been saying really nice things, and the ACLU is a fucking entity that I'm so happy to donate to and to and that are fighting for us and So I start when I saw all the positive comments from people on my political posts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just want to read one thing, because you wrote this tonight. And I retweeted it.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, I know. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it's beautifully written, and it's exactly right with all this stuff that's happening in our country right now, which is incredibly scary. And I have a lot of friends who talk about it all the time. We're like, I don't know what to do. This is insane. This is insanity. This is so scary. And you tweeted this tonight. You said, we have an amazing opportunity to atone for the atrocities past generations inflicted on those deemed different and undesirable. And then you did the hashtag love Trumpshate, and it really feels like that's what's happening right now is those people that are fucking taken to the streets who. When somebody puts down a Muslim ban in order to say that certain people can't come to this fucking country, people immediately show up in the streets going, no fucking way. That's. And to see it happening, I mean that. I sat in the grocery store parking lot staring at my phone for an hour and crying and going, holy.

[Lola Blanc]

All these people. It's so empowering. And, like, up until, like, a week ago, I was not looking at articles. I was feeling so beat down. And maybe it's because my Lexapro got doubled. I don't know. But suddenly I'm feeling really positive and empowered and not scared of reading these articles and excited to be part of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've been told for a year that the majority wants this. And basically, people are showing up in the streets to say, the majority does not want this. No, I am here to say I don't want this. It's an amazing, beautiful thing. And you see it now. The thing that people are tweeting tonight is showing all these people that are protesting at these airports, and they're protesting at airports in the middle of the country. People keep tweeting, oh, look at these. Look at these coastal elites in the middle of Kansas, in the middle of wherever they were. It was like a joke. A couple different people made the coastal elites joke because it was an airport in Texas. It was an airport in Wyoming.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, you know what's so great, too, is that I feel like for years, in every administration, there's been so many things that. That should. That people are up in arms about and that everyone's like, what do we do about this? And nobody's protested because it's. You don't know what to do. It's not big enough. There's not enough people. There's not this army to protest with. And suddenly it feels like we're not letting these things happen now. And there's definitely things that in the past should have been protested like this and haven't been 100%. And now everyone knows there is a way for every single person to get involved, and it's kind of. It's empowered when everyone's like, I don't know what to do. And it's like, here are five things you can do. Just go online and there's protests. You can donate money, you can donate time. You can, you know, tweet something, make phone calls. It's just. There's a lot to do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can express yourself. But it is very. I love the fact that it kind of kicked off with the women's march and all of the women's marches being five times bigger than they thought any of them were going to be. But then the. This. These airport protests watching, and it's people I know that are out there watching people show up by the thousands. To say, you cannot do this to people is beautiful. And that's what we have to remember. That's what we have to remember. That's the majority. That is truly the majority.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. And maybe, again, maybe Celexophar. But I'm fucking over my fear and anxiety of protesting. I'll be. I'll be out there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, being in a crowd.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's hard to be in a crowd.

[Lola Blanc]

I know. But it's necessary now. Now I realize it's fucking necessary, and I don't care if I get a little overwhelmed by it. It's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it could be beautiful, too.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

It's funny. Our good things could be translated into today. Yes. With seamlessly, Unfortunately.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just, like, such a strange loop that we are in, and it is so weird. Like, the exact same topics. It's just like the proper nouns are being switched out for. It's a different group of people being targeted. It's a different group of people. It's so shitty.

[Lola Blanc]

Look, we love progress, not perfection, but can we get a little bit of both, please? Great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some imperfect progress would be incredible. All right, well, it's time to rename this episode. This one was originally entitled Valet Area.

[Lola Blanc]

But if we're naming it today, maybe we would call it Yip Yap. That does not sound like anything you would ever say.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we're gonna Yip Yap. And Georgia jokes that people who aren't into it will join in 20 minutes.

[Lola Blanc]

Great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Skippers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Skippers. We also do, of course, corner, corner, corner. That's the one that I feel thematically, feels like it's really there already.

[Lola Blanc]

Now we know it'd be a part of it. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So.

[Lola Blanc]

And then also Guy Brennan, please let me know. And we're not gonna say goodbye right now here in 2025, because in 2017, I think we did a pretty good. Pretty damn good job of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's one of the best things we do on this episode.

[Lola Blanc]

So thanks for listening to Rewind. We appreciate you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Come back next week.

[Lola Blanc]

Thanks for listening. Go to my favorite murder.com if you are so inclined. I don't know. Or on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook. I don't know. Thanks for listening. I mean, you don't have to do any of those things. We appreciate you listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We really appreciate you listening. And please stay sexy.

[Lola Blanc]

Don't get get murdered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye.

[Lola Blanc]

Bye. Elvis. You want a cookie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mimi? It's your big chance. Do you want a cookie, Mimi?

[Lola Blanc]

Want cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was Elvis.

[Lola Blanc]

All right. And, Steven, thank you for being awesome.