Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 65: Pre-Milked Cereal

Summary

My Favorite Murder: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 65: "Pre-Milked Cereal" (October 8, 2025)

Podcast: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Host: Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts
Episode Air Date: October 8, 2025
Original Episode Date: April 20, 2017

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Rewind with Karen & Georgia" revisits and reflects on Episode 65, "Pre-Milked Cereal," from the early days of "My Favorite Murder." Karen and Georgia offer fresh commentary and memories about the original show, update listeners on the topics, share behind-the-scenes insights, and discuss how the show and their lives have evolved since. Major topics include random TV chat, community building among Murderinos, reflections on true crime coverage and its ethics, and deep dives into two notable Los Angeles cases: the murder of Hollywood publicist Ronni Chasen and the death of Mitrice Richardson. The tone is their signature blend of irreverent humor and heartfelt reflection.

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Key Discussion Points & Memorable Moments

1. Podcasting, Nostalgia, and “Pre-Milked Cereal”

• [02:04] The title "Pre-Milked Cereal" is explained through a classic Karen-Georgia riff on laziness, convenience foods, and the absurdity of “pre-milked” breakfast offerings.
• [05:01] Karen jokes: “It’s not that prepackaged pre-milked cereal. Gross. Pre-milked, Pre Milked. I said it.”
• [32:22] Georgia: "We were like, what's the word? Visionaries. In 2017, we're like, why isn't this a thing? And Kellogg was like, guess what? 2022, they launched Insta Bowls."

2. TV Talk and the Ritual of Comfort

• [03:45] Georgia admits to rekindling cable TV for the ritual of eating comfort food and background noise.
• [04:40] Classic Georgia confessional: “Let’s be honest. I’m eating cereal for lunch.”
• Discussion of cultural habits, like the need for TV noise while eating.

3. Behind the Scenes Insights & The Power of Community

• [17:33] Karen reads a heartfelt message about Murderinos meeting up at live shows, highlighting the community built around the podcast.
• [18:59] Georgia: “That’s what the live shows have done probably the most for us…You’re gonna meet 100 fucking cool people that are your friends.”
• [20:17] Karen: “...it’s thrilling to be able to be a part of this thing that you guys are doing.”
• Reflecting on the evolution of the podcast: juggling multiple "corners" at the top of each show and the pressure to perform for their audience.
• [31:37] Karen: “Having never started this podcast. Don’t say that, Karen.”

4. Birthday Corner: Celebrating Steven

• [20:48] Steven, the beloved producer, is celebrated for his 30th birthday with organic whiskey and a $300 donation in his name to a cat rescue.
• [23:34] Classic Karen and Georgia banter about gifts, kimono recommendations, and cat ranch dreams.
• [24:47] They tease Steven about the next 30 years and discuss absurd future goals: cat ranches, donut faces, learning to fly planes.
• [26:11] Karen: “We Amelia Earhart the fuck out of this tour.”
  Georgia: “That means we die on an island.”
  Karen: “Yep.”
• [27:46] Georgia: “The 30s are your best. The 20s? You couldn’t fucking pay me to be in my 20s again.”

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Detailed Case Recaps

CASE 1: The Unsolved Murder of Hollywood Publicist Ronni Chasen (Karen)

[42:05–79:03]

Background & Setup

• [42:05] Karen covers the 2010 murder of Ronni Chasen, acclaimed Hollywood publicist. Chasen was gunned down in her Mercedes in Beverly Hills after a film premiere.
• [48:56] Colorful portrait of the area—wealth, glamor, sharp contrast with other parts of LA.
• [51:05] Chasen's clients had earned 150 Oscar nominations, including Best Picture wins (“No Country for Old Men”, “Slumdog Millionaire”, “The Hurt Locker”).

The Night of the Murder

• [60:19] Chasen waits at a red light, ambushed by a gunman who shoots her four times. Her car crashes; she is pronounced dead soon after.

Investigation & Doubts

• [63:22] Police close the case on ex-con Harold Smith, who kills himself when approached by police; they cite ballistics evidence and witness tips.
• [66:23] Karen highlights suspicious holes:
  • Ballistics were inconclusive.
  • No fingerprints dusted on the passenger side (where gunman shot).
  • Surveillance footage never released.
  • The murder weapon was a stolen gun from a retired LAPD officer.
• [68:34] Former LAPD detective T.T. Williams Jr.: “...a black man supposedly on a bike in the middle of the night. He’d be stopped 15 times. He would have stood out like a sore thumb.”
• [73:01] Chasen's recent will couldn't be found so her estate went to a niece; overall, her death was treated with troubling expedience and ambiguity.
• [76:38] Karen and Georgia grapple with the case’s eerie unsolved status and possible cover-up.
• [81:43] Karen’s 2025 update: Beverly Hills PD has not reopened the case despite calls for justice. Journalist Gary Baum remains vocal about the unresolved murder and its racial/policing context.

Notable Quotes

• [70:48] Stan Kephart (police expert): “It’s not what you think about a suspect. It’s what you can prove. And it appears that there is room for doubt that Harold Smith is the perpetrator in this case.”

Reflections

• The hosts stress the importance of giving credit to true crime journalists ([[79:03]]). This case marks the moment they resolved to always cite their sources in the show.
• [82:01] Karen: “To me, it seems like such a specific hit… it would be a perfect place. It’s super dark…”

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CASE 2: The Vanishing and Death of Mitrice Richardson (Georgia)

[86:16–125:29]

Background & Setup

• [87:01] In 2009, 24-year-old Mitrice Richardson, a recent college grad, visits a Malibu restaurant and behaves erratically, possibly in a manic state.
• [87:40] She can’t pay her bill, referencing Michael Jackson “avenge Michael Jackson,” sparking concern.

Arrest & Police Actions

• [92:26] Police decide not to place her under psychiatric hold—too much paperwork—and instead arrest her, confiscate her phone, purse, and car.
• [93:44] Mitrice's mother calls repeatedly, asking police not to release her into the night.
  Mother: “...she’s not from that area, and I would hate to wake up to a morning report saying girl lost somewhere and her head chopped off, but the deputy assured Mitrice’s mother not to worry.” ([94:48])
• [94:45] Mitrice is nonetheless released around 12:30AM, alone, with only the clothes she was wearing, 11 miles from her car, into the cold and dangerous Santa Monica mountains.

Disappearance & Discovery

• [95:57] Next morning, her mother tries to report her missing; police tell her to wait.
• [97:53] Earliest sightings: neighbor calls about a prowler and loud screams; those sightings vanish into the wilderness.
• [102:17] Almost a year later, park rangers discover Mitrice’s naked, mummified body in a remote canyon. Her clothes are scattered and her shoes and T-shirt are never found.
• [103:34] The coroner’s investigation is ruined as police unlawfully remove the remains before the coroner arrives.
• [103:55] Her mother later finds a finger bone at the site—evidence was left behind.

Controversies & Corruption

• [115:31] Georgia: “Animals can’t take your jeans off” – skeptical about wildlife being responsible.
• Extensive mishandling—missing evidence, conflicting reports, untested clothing, lost surveillance footage.
• [117:06] Department cleared itself of all wrongdoing despite forensic sabotage. Subsequent lawsuits are settled out of court; the department admits no fault.
• [118:39] Ongoing advocate Dr. Rhonda Hampton files complaints, but efforts are dismissed/minimized.
• [124:34] Recent update: Sheriff in 2019 orders review; again, “death remains unresolved.”
• [125:29] $25,000 reward is still available, and the podcast “Lost Hills” Season 4 digs deeper.

Notable Quotes

• [94:48] Mitrice’s mother: “...I would hate to wake up to a morning report saying girl lost somewhere and her head chopped off...”
• [116:57] Georgia: “Well, you don’t have the neck bones to test to see if she was choked to death because you left them behind.”
• [124:37] Georgia: “I just think of her being released in such a state, in such a place with no resources, and that just breaks my fucking heart.”

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Other Notable Segments

Reflections on the True Crime Genre & Ethics

• Discussion on the glamorization of certain cases and discomfort with stories like Casey Anthony ([09:30]). Both express distaste for the media’s focus on “hot girl” criminals.
• [12:45] Karen: "It's just sad and then awful. There's nothing in there that I go, ooh, this is fascinating. I just go, this is a tragedy."

Correction Corner

• [28:43] Karen admits to a factual error from the past regarding Cherry Hill's location, and both muse about the pitfalls and humility of amateur research.

Podcast Recommendations

• [15:26] Georgia plugs "The Vanished" podcast’s episode on Mimi Lewis, emphasizing changing terminology from “runaway” to “lured away.”

Updates, Changes, and Silver Linings

• [121:34] Karen highlights a recent (2025) L.A. policy update requiring police to focus on de-escalation, a rare hopeful note.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “You’re gonna meet 100 fucking cool people that are your friends.” – Georgia ([18:59])
• “We Amelia Earhart the fuck out of this tour.” – Karen ([26:11])
• “It’s not what you think about a suspect. It’s what you can prove.” – Stan Kephart (read by Karen, [70:48])
• “Animals can’t take your jeans off.” – Karen ([115:22])
• “To me, it seems like such a specific hit...it would be a perfect place. It’s super dark...” – Karen ([82:01])
• “I just think of her being released in such a state, in such a place with no resources, and that just breaks my fucking heart.” – Georgia ([124:37])
• “That's the best part of this podcast—how many people have come together through it.” – Georgia ([35:04])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [02:04] – Explanation of “Pre-Milked Cereal”
• [17:33] – Community story read by Karen
• [20:48] – Steven's Birthday Corner
• [42:05] – Karen begins breakdown of the Ronni Chasen case
• [63:22] – Police closure of Chasen murder and holes in their case
• [79:03] – Reflection on sourcing and crediting true crime journalists
• [86:16] – Georgia begins the Mitrice Richardson case
• [93:44] – Mother’s warning phone call to police
• [102:17] – Discovery of Mitrice's remains
• [117:06] – Department cleared of wrongdoing in Mitrice's death
• [124:34] – 2025 update: review of Mitrice's case
• [121:34] – LAPD de-escalation policy update

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Episode Character & Tone

Maintaining their trademark mix of sardonic wit and empathy, Karen and Georgia bounce from goofy asides (pre-milked cereal, house kimonos, hot tubs) to honest, heartfelt reflection on the real-world impact of the cases they cover and the Murderino community they fostered. Their open acknowledgment of their own learning curve—especially about journalistic ethics and how to responsibly cover difficult topics—adds special resonance for longtime listeners.

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For Further Listening

• “The Vanished” – The Mimi Lewis Story (recommended by Georgia)
• Lost Hills Season 4: The Mitrice Richardson Story (recommended follow-up for Georgia’s case)

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Final Thoughts

"Pre-Milked Cereal" is a classic example of what makes My Favorite Murder a phenomenon: fierce curiosity, unflinching takes on power and justice, deep compassion for victims, and real, laughter-through-the-tears camaraderie. This episode, updated for the Rewind series, pulls back the curtain on the podcast’s evolution while still delivering gripping, unresolved true crime tales—and a few new lessons for both fans and hosts.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

That's 15% off OneSkin Co with code MFM. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them we sent you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clark, the new Hulu original series Murdoch Death in the Family dives into secrets, deception, murder, and the fall of a powerful southern dynasty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Inspired by shocking actual events and drawing from reporting by Mandy Matney in her hit podcast, this series brings the drama to the screen like never before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Watch the Hulu original series Murdoch Death.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In The Family, streaming October 15th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for vinyl subscribers terms apply. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary and updates. And insights are welcome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Today we're recapping episode 65, which we named Pre Milked Cereal, which makes total sense. In a minute, we swear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we're going to explain everything. This episode came out on April 20, 2017.

[Georgia Hardstark]

420, bro. All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 65. Should we podcast?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are these the new mics? Yes, that's podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, let's podcast. So early in the day to podcast. Doesn't this podcast feel like we should do it at night?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, this is definitely a nocturnal podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, like with the lights off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Should we shut some stuff down?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe make it spooky?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Should we. Should you get your central system to shut it all?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, you know the clapper for the entire thing. I have. Cause I'm rich. Oh, nothing happened. Oh, hi. Hey, guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is my favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Karen Kilgariff, and that's Georgia Hardstark.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're here to talk to you about true crime. Are you ready?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you ready for this? We haven't planned any of this conversation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, not at all. Although it did have a kind of a lilting, choreographed quality. That's just how we naturally are with each other. That's just us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's us. We don't write anything down. We don't prepare in any way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're just like the TV show. This is us. That's us. Same exact thing. No, I'm sure it's great, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Speaking of tv, this is a good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Segue that we wrote that we rehearsed four times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, it just turns out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just got real TV again after, like, moving in and being like, we don't need tv, let's just. We'll just do Roku and blah, blah, blah. And all these things didn't work. No. And I was like, I just want to turn like a food show on while I stuff a tamale into my mouth in the middle of the day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I don't want to have to be boop bop and find the thing and then, like, watch the thing. Yeah, you just want to watch TV for five minutes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You want to dive into the stream of TV that's already happening. As opposed to hunt out specific. Because I find when I go hunt out specifically specific things, I don't like it. When I find, like, it makes me go, oh. I don't actually like this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, my food gets cold while I'm. Because I can't eat in silence. I have this problem with that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Me too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, yeah, it's like, you're scrolling. Like, fine, I can watch an episode of like, five minutes of Friends while I fucking eat this tamale. Again, the tama. I mean, let's be honest. I'm eating cereal for lunch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was tamale the choice you made? Like, this will impress people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, because they're frozen tamales from Trader Joe's. Those ones that are like that, I just heat up and put salsa on and. And I'm like, they're half cold.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The way you just said that made it sound like you're like, fine. I'll admit it. I'm eating cereal. I want you to think I'm sitting here eating tamales.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Homemade tamales. Okay, fine. It's homemade cereal, you know, like I like to do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But you made it yourself, right? Yeah, it's not that prepackaged pre milked cereal. Gross. Pre milked, Pre Milked. I said it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if that was. What if you. What was the. Like, powdered milk, and you pour water into it, and it's like cereal. And I bet the army has that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I bet they do. So it's like there's powdered milk and then there's cereal, and then there's a little capsule of water, and then you break it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And there's like, a fucking, like, shitty spoon attached to the whole thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's part of the thing. You break. You break a thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Steven. Trademark that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, that just reminds me. So our friend Guy Branham had a Passover cedar Seder. Seder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I do it wrong every time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if he just had a Passover cedar tree in his house?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how I remembered it. That way. I thought Seder. Cause Seder's like the animal. Like the. You know, a guy with goat legs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Really?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sator. S A T Y R. You know, they play the weird harp.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyhow, it doesn't matter. Wait.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Guy Branham. Sater. How was it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was, of course, lovely. He writes basically, like, a whole play. Everyone at the table has parts, and you have to, like, follow along. You say the prayers, but then there's other things, and we play games. It's hilarious and really fun. But at one point, he served quail.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He served quail. And I was eating it. And then I flicked out the tiniest wishbone. And then I did the. I was sitting next to a guy named Matt, who was super cool, who's a writer that I now know. And so we snapped the wishbone and I fucking won. I got my wish, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I haven't had a wish fund since I was a kid. Probably add a Seder. That makes me so excited.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't that funny? And it was a tiny one because it was from a quail. So it was like. It flicked out. And then I was like, hold on a second. I think I just found a wishbone. It was like that big.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cue the email from fucking animal rights activist saying, karen, you know that wishbone was part of this animal's life and happiness.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Now it's part of my happiness because it's going to bring me my wish. Give it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What was your wish? Tell us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't. We won't tell anyone because then it won't come true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? That's not a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just eternal love.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's all. Now it's not gonna come true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, you tricked me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you eat gefilte fish?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's My favorite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It wasn't served. He did so every year he does a different theme. It's not standard traditional Jewish food. So it was Syrian food.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was a series of dishes. That one more delicious than the next.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A series of Syrian food.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A series of Syrian.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Series of Syrian serving. No, forget it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, you had it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I like. Well, there are Syrian Jews. I mean, that's cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are there?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tell me about them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have never met them, but I'm sure they're there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I bet they are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. That's amazing television.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, and speaking of, you need to. You really quickly plugged the Guy Brenham TV show that you're on. You're talking about TV and Guy Brenham.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so funny. And again, what a great segue. Thanks for remembering your line.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get to what we're actually talking about. It's all scripted and we never actually. The segues are great, but they never talk about what.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They just lead us away from topics. That's why people hate this podcast. I am on a television show called Talk show the Game Show. Guy Branham is the host. He's also our legal representative, but he is also a talk show host on a game show on TRUTV network.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's Wednesday nights at 10 o'. Clock. Two episodes have already played. Tomorrow night will be the third episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that Friday night or Wednesday night?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wednesday night. Oh, shoot. So last night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So next week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit. I always forget.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sure they're playing it. I've seen it constantly. They're playing it over and over.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I bet they repeat it. But I wish this was earlier because I think this. They're like now it's all. They're watching the ratings to see if.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They'Re going to pick it up. Please, everyone. Wednesday. Such are alarm clocks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess I'll tweet about it. But anyway, anyway, so tv.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I got TV finally. And then I watched. Which means I get all access to fucking ID and you know, Dateline and all this shit. And everyone's like, did you watch Casey? The like three part Casey Anthony thing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so I was like, all right, this is my job, I'm gonna do this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I just say I saw those tweets and questions and hey, watch this and whatever. And I purposely don't watch anything about Casey Anthony. I don't like that. I don't find anything in that story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was just gonna say that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just don't give a shit about her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't want to know. I don't want to know because I hate that story so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Me too. And I was gonna say I just fucking couldn't watch it. Like, I know it's like my job and I should watch it and talk about it. I was just like, fuck this cunt, man. She just sucks so hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I don't understand why she is this the glamorization of female criminals in that way where it's like, so she's a young hot girl that has a child that went to a party and maybe killed her child. But like, are we reporting about her more than other people? Because she's like a skinny white girl that was like at a party. Is it the same thing as that other girl that killed her boyfriend?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That I think they get lumped together a lot. I think what it is is the cold heartedness in which, like, it just she's such a deep, deep narcissist that it's hard to watch. Like her jail cell, you know, conversations with her parents where, you know, when she first gets arrested is like, me, me, me, me, me. Not my daughter's dead. There's nothing about my baby is dead. It's like, I can't believe this is happening to me and this isn't fair. And it's just like her poor parents have to come to the realization that they raised a piece of shit narcissist who killed what could have been a not piece of shit narcissist or grandchild. And now they have to stick with her. It's almost like this thing of this is all we have left is to stick with this kid, the one who sucked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't tell if it's because I haven't had enough diet Coke today, but I feel nauseous right now talking about her. It makes me nauseous. Cause there's other cold hearted bitches in the world. But this is like saying, let's pay more attention to her because she weighs 97 pounds. I just hate the Nancy Grace Vidal for this particular story. And it's the same one with the other one where I was always like, why are we talking about Jodi Ayr? Yes, why are we talking about her? And it's the same thing. It's this kind of like, can you believe this hot bitch is this much of a cunt? Basically.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you believe hot bitches are cunts?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who knew? Yes. There's so many different types of cunts out there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It's like, can you believe not hot bitches are funny? Yes. Because that's what they fucking needed. To do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's the standard. Actually, that's the most common, is we're not hot. That's why we're funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We didn't grow up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not talking to you. I meant that for. I didn't mean that in an accusatory way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dang. You should see some photos of me as a kid, because you ain't wrong. Oh, my God. I got a permit and I had braces. Anyways.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So Casey Anthony. No, thanks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stupid idiot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Awful. It's just sad and then awful. There's nothing in there that I go, ooh, this is fascinating. I just go, this is a tragedy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah. It's ugly, rough stuff. I wrote shut down. Do you have any. What do you want to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I do. Well, this is. I wanted to read you because I read this this morning on Twitter. It said there's a. I guess a website called Laist. And it basically is all the stuff around la Laist.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I love Laist. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They do it in all different cities. Surely it's owned by Rupert Murdoch or someone like that. But it brings me my local news and the headline this morning was, dead body found in car parked in Filipino Town. And let me just. This is a short thing I will read you. A body was discovered inside a vehicle parked in the middle of the street along the 300 block of West Lake Avenue.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where's that stopped?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's. That's. Well, turns out they. People found it at 2:10 in the morning. The body of a male Hispanic in his 30s was found in the backseat of a black Hyundai. It had an Uber sticker. It's believed to have been towed to that location that it was discovered at. Not driven towed there. A spokesman, woman for the LAPD said told las.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My mouth is just. I'm not being quiet. My mouth has just dropped open.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's crazy that the department cannot confirm these claims that detectives and the coroner are continuing their investigation of the case. So basically, this is what. Probably they got the scoop on the scene, but no one's gonna confirm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're never gonna hear about it again. That's what's so crazy about these things that you hear about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then there's just a couple tweets of the pictures of the car sitting there with cops all around it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the idea, it's so scary. I've been taking Uber over and over for the past, like, couple weeks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My first thought is that he's a driver.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Me too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And someone put him in the backseat after Killing him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh, my dad's about to start driving Uber, so that ain't happening anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, he used to be a taxi driver in, like, North Hollywood.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Marty was?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And, like, down the street from where he was, like, parked, waiting late at night to get his next call, some dude, some cab driver got shot in the back of the head from the back of the seat, and he's, like, quitting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So now he's seeing you becoming an Uber driver, and it's like, fuck, dude. Either gonna have a really great story, stories to tell, or you're gonna be parked in the middle of fucking Filipino town.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, who knows? I mean, like, who knows? I want to hear about this story so bad. That's so crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's bananas. Like, what? I want the story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Boop bop. Oh, I have a podcast recommendation Corner. So this podcast called the Vanished, which obviously talks about people who vanished. It's like a true crime podcast. I mean, let me explain this to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I needed a little bit of an underline. Don't worry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So they have this one episode. Oh, I forgot what number it is, but it's the episode called the Mimi Lewis Story. Mimi. Oh, no. What number is it, Steven? No, it's called the Mimi Lewis Story, and it's really incredible because it's about this girl, Mimi Lewis, who vanished. She was 14. But it's. The whole episode is a conversation with this woman named Sandy Roberts, who runs this nonprofit called Halos Investigation, where they try to find missing teens, and their mission is to stop getting the label runaway put on teens and juveniles who disappear. And it's a really good episode, especially for parents of teenagers and young kids, about how this happens. What happens, how they're lured. The Internet. They're saying. She's saying, let's stop saying that they're runaways, and let's start saying that they were lured away, which is, like, suddenly makes you care so much more. Yes, because it's this, like, automatic thing of when you're like, oh, she ran away, then she deserves whatever happened to her. Yeah, but it's like, no. If someone manipulated her and, you know, that kind of thing, and she was having a hard time at home and, you know, and was lured away. And there's, like, a bunch of stuff about sex trafficking and what that means, which is. I mean, it's a really good episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow, that's very cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it kind of moved me a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's Vanished.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Vanished. The Vanished. It's the Mimi Lewis episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, My sister sent me. So my sister is a big creeper on the Facebook page. She likes to go on there and look around silently and secretly, and then she'll text me things that she sees and likes on there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's, like, vetting it for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly, exactly. And so this one was the day after the Milwaukee show, and she sent me a text that said, this made me tear up a little. Look at the amazing community you guys created. And then it said, went to see MFM last night in Milwaukee. My friend and I went to get dinner beforehand, and it was like Murderinos descended on Milwaukee. It was the best ever. Basically, everyone we passed, I would whisper. Shoot. I would whisper to my friend. They're totally here for the show. Definitely a Murderino. When we were at bars before and after, you slowly watched groups growing larger and larger as separate groups would realize that we are all were Murderinos and join together. Why can't that be the normal bar scene? That would be a dream. Thank you, Karen and Georgia and all. I think it cuts off at the bottom. It says. I think it says all Murderinos everywhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aw.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I love that so much because actually, we didn't create this community. You guys have created it for yourselves. And it's. We're just up here kind of like reading these stories and recording these podcasts. But you guys are the boots on the ground that are like, every time we have a VIP meet and greet after a show, people will tell us, I met them in line. Now I'm hanging out with that girl. Like, it's the cutest thing in the world.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think that's what the live shows have done probably the most for us, is make us, like, actually see all of these people who are like, the shows are so positive. And I'm always like, if people are like, I'm scared to go alone, it's like, no, you're gonna meet 100 fucking cool people that are your friends. It's just such a cool thing. And it's not like they all get together because of our podcast. They get together over their love of true crime, which we all feel so in the dark about because you're not supposed to talk about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then, yeah, it's people, I think, who aren't really the types of people. Like, it's like, somebody like me who I'm not gonna be the kind of person who', hey, what are you interested in? I'm always, like, arms crossed. And I think when people. It's a. You know, I just a second ago said, it's so cute. And that's the worst. I hate that word. I don't know why I used it. Cause what it really is, is a very empowering cool. It's almost like skipping over. It's almost like a weird Tinder for friends where you don't. You go, oh, I know this person already. I don't have to, like, make excuses or pretend I don't like a thing. I like. I already have this thing in common. And then we go from. Which is very cool. And it's just. To us, it's just. It's thrilling to be able to be a part of this thing that you guys are doing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Definitely. This is. Listen. We didn't know this would be a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, listen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, listen and listen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen, Listen and learn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen and kind of learn. We didn't know, and we fucking love it. And we're so blessed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're so proud of you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Blessed. We're proud of you. We're grateful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're proud of you for going to shows and. And getting into the mix.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Thank you for supporting us. Hey, is it Birthday Corner?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, it is Birthday Corner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is it Birthday Corner? Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. It's Stephen's Birthday Corner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's Steven's Birthday Corner. Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Steven, it was your.

[Steven]

It's very me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He doesn't want this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I thought you were gonna give a good. Hi. Oh, hi. Say hi, birthday boy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello. It's like we're at TGI Fridays, and he knows that someone's about to come singing, and we're all just like, oh, it's gonna come.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So we're so feeling. Or you're waiting for that sombrero to get thrown down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have you ever done that to someone whose birthday it wasn't?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, do you?

[Steven]

That's twisted.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I tell? Well, I won't tell it now because we're trying to give a birthday greeting, but one time people did that, and they were talking about me before I came back from the bathroom, and I thought they were talking about me, and I started crying, and then they were like. And then I just sat down at the table, like, full, pouting. Oh, my God. And everything got super uncomfortable. And then it was like. Like, happy birthday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When I realized what it was like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were actually doing the nice. That's like, so. Shows you what your brain does the worst. That's incorrect.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. When you're in a bad situation. It was already a bad situation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's like, okay, anyway, anyway, Steven.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is about Stephen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This Is about you. Here's one second. Here's the thing in a card.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Oh, my gosh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a big old thing in the card.

[Karen Kilgariff]

George was presenting Stephen with his birthday gift from us. It's organic and we're making you open it on. On camera.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So much pressure on camera.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's so much pressure to like this.

[Steven]

I can do it with one hand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, good.

[Steven]

There's cat fur on the tape. It's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Perfect.

[Steven]

It's part of the present, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't judge me. It's from Elvis and Mimi. They wanted to add something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what they.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I didn't add.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's all they could afford.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis.

[Steven]

It says California Six Woods Malt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, don't give them a shout out. They didn't. Babe, we paid for this.

[Steven]

I'll cut that out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, cut that out, Stevens.

[Steven]

It's organic whiskey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so cool.

[Steven]

Oh, my gosh. My favorite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, open the card, though.

[Steven]

And the card's the important.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the whiskey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whiskey. My favorite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Organic whiskey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My favorite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's vegan gluten free whiskey with a bear on the front.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's also non alcoholic. We have that. We're worried about you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just root beer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is an intervention. Yeah.

[Steven]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, should I read it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Oh, okay. We want you. Dear Steven, thank you so much for everything. We've donated $300. Oh, my gosh. To Santidor in your name because you know you love the kitties. Happy birthday, Karen and Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, thank you. Santador is a really great catch. I don't want to call it a shelter. Yeah, it's rescue cat rescue down close in our neighborhood. Yeah, it's.

[Steven]

Oh, my gosh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That you love. Yeah.

[Steven]

Yeah, I've done done work with them before. The Christy Keefe has been on my podcast, the Purr Cat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Steven]

This is so amazing. Yeah, it's like. Because I've seen that you can do that. You can like, basically like, sponsor a cat. Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you so. Well, we just gave it to them and said, this is for Steven Ray Morris.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like that. That actually the feel of all of that really turned into a. Look what we did for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Look at how good we are. Can I say that Vince was like, pushing hard for like the past month. We were like, what do I get, Stephen? And he just kept saying, what about a house kimono he can wear around the house? He just kept. And I was like, what the fuck are. Why are you fucking pushing for this? I was Like, I don't know, I could just see Steven enjoying a house kimono.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I was like, he has a.

[Steven]

Roommate just lounging around.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I mean, big sleeves.

[Steven]

I mean, this is great. I mean, for a second it was like, pull out a cat. Just like, here's a new cat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We got you a cat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you want a cat?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can take that. Why don't we take the $300 back and then buy a cat? Like, at a cat. What are they called?

[Steven]

Mill.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mill.

[Steven]

No, this is much better. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Happy birthday. 30th.

[Steven]

Yeah, 30th.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. The big three. Zero.

[Steven]

I wanted people to think I was 20, but it's okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, you're fired.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We don't have anyone over 30 in our.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, it's ageism. We totally support it. But Stephen, what are you going to in your next 30 years? Let's hear a short term goal. Let's hear a long term goal. How are you going to reposition yourself for the next 30?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like it? I like it. Ooh.

[Steven]

I want to invest in real estate. I feel like that's smart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is. It's like, what would we say? I want to eat a million things.

[Steven]

Have more donut companies make donuts of my face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, that's smart.

[Steven]

And then have like a cat ranch. Maybe just open it up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That sounds amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really? Here too. Cats. Like, horse sized cats.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's all Maine coons. Like, the biggest cats you've ever seen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Children riding cats.

[Steven]

I think that's. I mean, that feels like giving back, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, smart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. These are all positive things. What's one insane, stupid thing you're going to do?

[Steven]

I mean, the one, like. Because I kind of feel like I'm doing what I love for a living now. And I feel really lucky to feel that way. But there's always like that one insane thing that you're like, oh, if I had this, like, I've always wanted to learn how to fly an airplane. Oh, that's one thing that, like, I feel like when you can afford the gas money. Cause like, renting, like learning how to fly isn't that expensive. But renting, the. Buying the gas is the expensive part.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Steven]

And I've always wanted to, like, learn how to fly a plane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Steven, here's. Okay, now we're gonna make a solid plan. You do that, you take the next. How long does it take? 18 months. Learn to fly planes, and then we get a private plane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I knew you Were going there, right? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we go international.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Fly over international waters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, exactly.

[Steven]

No rules apply.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nope.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're gonna fly in international waters. And Karen and I are on the wings the whole time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We Emilia Earhart the fuck out of this tour.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That means we die on an island.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cool.

[Steven]

Oh, is that how it ended?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah. They're pretty sure they found off an island her plane. Wait, really?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, sorry. Oh, no, no, no.

[Steven]

She's still alive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Happy birthday, Amelia Earhart, like, died of starvation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

30 is your bad news birthday. Yep. It turn. Amelia Earhart is dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can I just say, too that part of growing up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Santa's not real. Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Careful, careful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The 30s are your best. The 20s. You couldn't fucking pay me to be in my 20s again.

[Steven]

No, I'm stoked to be 30.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, good.

[Steven]

I'm really excited.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

20S are a disaster, but 30s. I would say this about your 30s. 30s, because you're out of your 20s. You think now I know. Now I get it. Just remember that you do not know. And that once you're in the position of that, then you can kind of, like, be flexible. But my big mistake in my 30s is like, ugh, I'm so much smarter now. And I think that made me even stupider.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mine was that I have to grow up now. And I'm like. And you don't have to like people who are like, I'm 32 and I'm gonna marry my boyfriend. And I'm like, don't fucking do that. You don't even. You're 32. Just don't take anything, like relationships and jobs and whatever situation you're in as seriously as you think you're supposed to when you're in your 30s. Like, you can wait till your later 30s, which I'm about to be to do that. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Thank you, Steven.

[Steven]

Oh, my gosh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now you give us advice.

[Steven]

Well, the car ranch thing was kind of in the real estate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're right. Real estate was good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I was kind of hinting that you two idiots who don't spend your money well should. Happy birthday to our friend Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're glad you're here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. We're very glad we have you here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And soon you'll be paid for your work. Can't wait.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someone. We were getting interviewed for something, and someone was like, like, Can I just ask, do you pay Steven? Like, almost like you put him through so much shit. Do you at least pay him? And I'm like, yes, people Are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're very concerned that we're. That we really are mean to you in real life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is not true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So there's $300 in charity to prove we're not dick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no. I love it. Okay, good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's why he's here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You got a sister. You know what it's like to be treated like shit. All three of us know what it's like to be treated like a sis, bro. Like a sibling. Anyways.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. That's why we treat at will however we want. Coming from a victim stance. Now, I do have a corrections corner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We talked about it a little bit in both Indianapolis, Milwaukee, and Chicago. But I am forced to say to the nation and the world, I forgot about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone's holding their breath.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cherry Hill. Everyone knows Cherry Hill's in New Jersey. Everyone knows that. Every single person on this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I certainly didn't. And neither do the producers of City Confidential, because they really led me to believe that Cherry Hill was in Pennsylvania. Tell everyone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause I just love this, where it's like, so you did your murder a week ago before the live show aired.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it was about Fred Newlander, right? The murdering rabbi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I thought maybe you were like, I did it once on accident. But you thought it was there. I didn't know. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now, the problem with it really is that I feel like some other part of my brain did know that, like, the first indoor mall was in New Jersey. That just makes good sense, I guess.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you're right. Who the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No context clues. No, no, you're right. I mean, I don't. I'll just write down whatever and then say whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck it. Middle of Pennsylvania. Like, middle of nowhere, not near Pittsburgh. Has to be so boring that they're like, put them all here. Because everyone's so bored. All they do is, like, cause trouble. Let's give them a place to go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Give them a nice indoor mall.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Give them a mall. Like, New Jersey's kind of fun. They have, like, cool, weird shit to do, don't they?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I clearly don't know anything about any. What I said to people when we were on tour was in California. You can't just go to another state real fast. Which is how they were making it sound in the city Confidential. Like, the daughter lived in Philly, and so she drove into Cherry Hill. So, like, that. That just led me to believe. You can't just drive in if you're in la. And you want to drive in from Nevada. That's going to take a while.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it just doesn't make sense to someone that lives on this part of the planet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what? Fuck it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck it all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who fucking cares?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck it all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck it all. That's the tagline of this podcast. Why am I the one singing now?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it's fun. You gotta do it. And also you can do it. You try to act like you can't and you can't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You just did it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're right, I did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where are we now?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should we talk about the theme of this podcast?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, not singing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not Elvis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're back. Are you surprised that we used to have like nine topics at the top of every show? Because I am. That's so many corners.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but it set a precedent. So now when we don't have more than like three, I feel like we're not giving everything we have.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So like, what's the happy medium? Six and a half.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Having never started this podcast. Don't say that, Karen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How about it? Really? It has taken me a long time to get used to recording this podcast during the day. Like, I still feel like this is a. It's dark out. Let's record.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I guess now that we're in the studio where it's always dark out inside.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's always nighttime in here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is. And you walk out, you're like, how is it still fucking light out when.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You go outside and it's full sun and over 90 degrees. It's like leaving a party at 5:00am Ooh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh God. Yeah. That was the worst.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is my way of introducing white drugs into the current recording schedule.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're never having started, we're doing fucking white drugs and fucking pre milk CEREAL now in 2025, in today's America, exists.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's real.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were like, what's the word?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Visionaries.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In 2017, we're like, why isn't this a thing? And Kellogg was like, guess what? 2022, they launched Insta Bowls single serve cereal bowls containing dry cereal plus powdered milk, which I've never had powdered milk before. Have you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I had it at camp and it's not pleasant at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not milk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like if you are from a dairy based community, like, I was dairy proud. Our creameries, our bread and butter, literally our livelihood. And powdered milk doesn't taste right. Well, it's kind of tastes. It tastes A little bit like creamer, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a little chalky, kind of powdery.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's abomination y.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then, like, some people grew up on it where it's, like, more convenient, it's cheaper, whatever, so. And also, once you get that sugar cereal in there, you're fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like powdered coffee where you're like, I know that this is not fresh brewed, fresh ground beans, but I want coffee right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so I will live with this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I will take the caffeine hit any way you serve it up to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? And in a couple days, I fucking like it. I find myself liking it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's cheap.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I prefer it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want that spoon sound in the mug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What I think is funny is like, is this for people who go camping or something? Because basically, when you're eating cereal, as LL Cool J said, milk cereal, I mean, you don't mess with the most basic beautiful recipe of regular milk cereal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sounds like a government cheese situation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I think it might be a.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you camping? What's that trail that everyone loves?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Oregon Trail?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pacific Northwest, either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oregon, The Appalachian Trail, all of those. There's all those ones.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you're hiking them, you need powdered fucking milk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, no judgment. You can powder your milk all you want or whatever or not have it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Argue with us about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's debate this thing. Let's get it going. Anyway, congratulations on inventing powdered milk cereal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, congratulations. Us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Finally. Also very cute. That we're talking about. Basically going. All the listeners are getting together and creating their murderino subsets, communities, you know, whatever the groups and being able to, like, reflect on that basically, if it's a little over a year old. So we're really seeing the kind of effects of. This is actually a thing that they're doing by themselves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. Like, they're realizing that there are other people that they can count on who are into the same things and don't think they're weird or do think they're weird. Like that about them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Like the weirdness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They would never speak at work and suddenly they go, oh, my God, are you serious? You know what? I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. We've just had 10 years of that now, and it's been fucking incredible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's one of the best, absolute best parts of this podcast is like, how many people have, like, come together through it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Watching a community build itself around bullshit you and your friends say, yeah, once a week is quite an experience.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we get all the credit and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We get a bunch of money and I got to move out of my dark, little weird fucking house and into a beautiful mid century dream home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. I was think I was still renting at this point. The pod loft. It hadn't all blown up yet. And I was like, oh, my God, I have a dishwasher. Like, that was. That was a game changer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And high ceilings in that second apartment.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking ceilings in the pod loft apartment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And a hot tub.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And a hot tub with a cat. It wasn't my hot tub. It was a community hot tub. But I am not picky when it comes to hot tubs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You made it your own hot tub.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You were out there every goddamn night putting in the work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was. You know, it was so great though, because our balcony overlooked the pool. So I could be like, is anyone in there? Before I went down there. Because a fucking awkward thing of like, you start walking towards the jacuzzi, someone's in there, they see you. You can't turn around and walk the other way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You just lock eyes and then get in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As you're staring in like hot soupy water with another.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's make human soup together.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So what are you watching on Netflix?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just. There's no way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nope. So I could peek out the window. If someone was in there by the time I got down there, I would just be so disappointed. But usually it was like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then you're like looking up and you're like, huh? Where are the security cameras? Okay, checking this area like you, doctor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm just gonna spend some laps like I'd like to do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a freezing cold pool. I'm just gonna jump in there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, well, should we get into your story?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How do you feel about this one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Today, just seeing it? Well, first of all, I just saw a TikTok where they were talking about. It's been like 15 years.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ronnie Chasen's murder has not been solved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's lots of theories. The person who basically did all of the work on Ronnie Chasen's murder, which was a mystery when it happened and continues to be till this day, is a Hollywood reporter reporter from the time named Gary Baumgartner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so it was basically him putting the story together, going down to the records hall, all this stuff, which I will talk about next episode, that put it all together. And when I was covering the story, I was watching a TV show called Hollywood and Crime, which was a play on Hollywood and Vine that's really. So it's just like Hollywood based murders. And so I watched the episode of that and just kind of like took notes like I used to do with I survived of like how does this story go? But it turns out and they didn't credit Gary Baume on the show of like the one person that brought this to everybody and knows all these answers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean it taught us so much about like up top. Here's what you do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we'll talk about it. But I think I'm glad it happened because it gave us an opportunity.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it was also back in the day. It's just funny going back on these shows where it's like having to like re approach these huge mistakes then were very public mistakes where it's like, oh, this feels bad. Horrible and this is all bad. And also then you get that sense of the haters standing right outside the door ready to hate.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. Like you gotta watch your back. Cause they're watching it too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's everything that's about to happen is this is about to happen in this story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, so let's get into Karen's story about Ronnie Chasen. Every cat owner, including myself, swears that their house quote doesn't smell like cat. And yes, it always kind of does. With Pretty Litter, you'll never have to about it again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

It also helps monitor your cat's health. Detecting abnormalities in your cat's urine by testing acidity and alkalinity levels and the visible presence of blood. I mean, we were joking in the beginning, but Pretty Litter actually does solve this problem.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I used to have cats too, so I have no judgment. But I mean, like, that is a tough problem to solve. And this is a cat litter that not only has solved that problem, but a couple more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, Vince and I are always like, it doesn't smell like cat pee in here. Right. It doesn't look like. We're always obsessed about it and worried about it and sniffing around the house and like knowing that Pretty litter is there and just taking care of it and we don't even have to think about it is huge peace of mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Now save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Pretty Litter.com MFM Pretty Litter cannot detect.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye A sleek professional website makes you look very put together even when you're wearing sweatpants and eating cereal out of a mug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's where Squarespace comes in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer your services and get paid all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In one place, from consultations to experiences. Showcase your services with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And managing those payments is in just a few clicks. You'll be able to accept payments with options like Klarna, Apple Pay, afterpay and more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'll get paid on time with professional on brand invoices and online payments. Plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get discovered faster with Squarespace's built in SEO tools. With meta descriptions and auto generated sitemaps, you'll rank higher in search results globally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to squarespace.com murder for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's squarespace.com murder code murder goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's spooky season, but your home should feel lived in, not haunted.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Article has everything you need to create a stylish home at an unbeatable price.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They offer a curated range of mid century, modern, coastal and scandi inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also pair seamlessly with other article products.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Article takes great care on curating its collection, focusing solely on high quality, meaningful pieces that will will stand the test of time. There's no filler. Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design and lasting value.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Article provides fast and affordable shipping across the US and Canada. You get to choose your delivery time and they'll keep you in the loop with updates along the way. I know I've mentioned already how much I love my entryway table, but I swear to God because the path that it's on, like you have to walk out of the front of my house to walk to the bathroom so I passed it four times a day and I love it more every time. It's like perfectly made, stylish, all these things that I needed and wanted and it was under $100.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've seen it and I will vouch for it. It was freaking adorable and it fits so well with your house. Yes. So if you're in the market For a beautiful new sofa, dining table or bed? Head over to article.com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. Do I go first or you go first?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Steven. Birthday.

[Steven]

Karen goes first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Steven, it's your birthday. You gotta pick whoever you wanna go first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stephen, it's your birthday. Okay, well, tonight, Today, this afternoon, I'm going to do the murder of Hollywood super publicist Ronnie Chasen. Do you know this one?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is it a she? Yes, I think. I don't know anything about it. Okay, take me there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm taking you back to 2010. Where were you in 2010? Where did you live?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was 30.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, dude, I'm liking this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was 30. I was living in a studio apartment in Hollywood. It's really cute. It was like $800 a month, which is the most hilarious thing I've ever heard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I thought you said I was really cute. Oh, I was really cute.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's it. Go ahead. I had a shitty desk job that I fucking hated. And I had no idea that my life would be what it is today. And I am so glad I didn't because then it wouldn't have happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you wish and wish and hope that it. That you would not work at a desk anymore?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I have to tell you, when I had two different jobs in my early 20s, that both brought me such intense, soul sucking sorrow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was my life until I was 30. Is that. And I thought it would be that forever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I feel like when you're going through that, you think this because I feel this bad about it, that means it's going to happen forever. But actually if you feel that bad about it, it means it won't continue on, in my opinion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, like, I fucking hustled my ass off to grasp anything that wouldn't get me there, that wouldn't keep me there, and that turned into a blog.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A blog.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I used to think maybe if I just get married and have a baby, I can have some time off. Like, that's how bad it was. I was just like, get me out of here, I'll have a baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I mean, they do solve that problem, but babies will get you out of the office, that's for sure. And sometimes keep you from ever returning.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let me make this about me. You asked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I did ask you. I want to know because it's weird to think so. It was seven years ago, so. Stephen, you were 23.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aww.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What were you doing?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What were you doing, Stephen?

[Steven]

I was just about to go to grad school in London.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's better than us. Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bonjour. Bonjour.

[Steven]

I dropped out immediately, so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, great. Okay, you're back. Bonjour.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bonjour. In London, Karen doesn't know where Cherry Hill is. She doesn't know a language.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I get offended by anyone that leaves the country or gets an education. It really puzzles me out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Me, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Me, myself. If it was seven years ago, where were you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where was Karen?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was. God, I was in a very. You were married? No. You know where I was? I was in New York. I had just left my ex. I was like, I can't do this. And I bailed and went to New York, and I was in New York. This is when I got into podcasts, because I was in New York. I knew about three people in the entire city. I had a job, luckily, and I would just come home. I would work all week, and then I would come home. And on the weekends, I would sit at this weird little chopping block table in the kitchen. I would smoke out the window. Don't smoke. It's bad for you. And I would listen to Dave Anthony and Greg Barent's podcast walking the room.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they would fight and blather and, like, it was the funniest thing. It was just like. And it was just, like being in the room with them. So it was a weird way. That's why when people freak out and go, like, I can't believe meeting you. You don't understand. And I always grab them, and I'm like, I do understand. It's like everybody goes through awful things and needs that kind of, like, companionship, and that's. It got me through kind of one of the hardest times of my adult life was pretending that I was having a conversation with Dave Anthony and Greg Barront.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My whole studio apartment was painted while I listened to podcasts, like, on a, like, huge ipod that, like, someone had.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Given me one of those big, thick, blocky ones.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, you guys, we get it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We understand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So who got killed?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, now I take you back to November 16th of that year.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In Hollywood. So one of Hollywood's most powerful and beloved publicists, Ronny Chasen, has just left the premiere party for the movie Burlesque. The Christina Aguilera Cher joint burlesque at the W Hotel. Ronnie's the publicist.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were there last night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were there yesterday.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. Oh, this one's really folding over and over. So she was the publicist for the movie's producer, Donald De Line. She was also the publicist for the lighting designer Peggy Eisenhower and for the composer Diane Warren, who'd written a song for this movie. She worked the room and she was now driving home down Sunset boulevard. It was 12:28am When Ronnie's Mercedes came to a stop at the left turn lane in the interse of Whittier and Sunset. So if you've never been to LA before, most people know about the Sunset Strip, which is like the most famous part of Sunset Boulevard. It starts the Sunset Strip, starts at Crescent Heights and it goes all the way down a little bit past Doheny and basically along that strip you've got the Chateau Marmont Hotel, you've got the Comedy Store, you've got the Viper Room, you've got the Whiskey and you've got the Roxy. Used to be Tower Records was there. Book Soup is there. There's a little. A very chunk called the Sunset Plaza that has restaurants and like the Armani store. Fancy shopping, fancy eating. And it's basically the. It takes you right into Beverly Hills. So once you get past that part, the Sunset Plaza portion basically takes a turn and then suddenly there's trees and there's big tall green hedges that are blocking off humongous mansions that they don't want you to look at. And it becomes like this gorgeous green drive. And a little further down on that drive you've got the Beverly Hills hotel that costs $1,000 a night to stay there. Did you know that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

How much does it cost?

[Karen Kilgariff]

$1,000 a night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you say $1,000 a night at.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Beverly Hills Hotel?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I was clicking to see how far down Sunset it was. And when you click on it, that hilarious Google thing happens where it's as if you're trying to book yourself there and it's like over. It's like. I think it's 10.98 a night. What? Yeah, because it's like, you know, the Polo club, it's like the famous.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So much money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. They only want rich people there or people that saved up. Whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, go stay somewhere else.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But anyway, what I'm saying is this is the end of Sunset Boulevard because if you keep on driving, you end up at the beach. Basically you drive past Bel Air, which is the richest, richest ucla, and then ultimately the beach. And that's a sharp contrast to where Sunset Boulevard starts, which is on basically Oliveira street downtown, 13 miles away. It has, I would say near the majority of Los Angeles has 47,000 homeless people. So the two ends of this street couldn't be more different.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when you get into Beverly Hills, the weirdest thing about this, anybody that lives in Los Angeles knows like you don't go into Beverly Hills if you don't have a reason to go there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Especially at night, it's empty basically. So it's like if you, if she's driving on Sunset at 12:38 at night, there's no cars on the road, there's certainly no pedestrians ever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a big wide street and it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Empty, it's pristine, perfect. Not a drop of litter anywhere. And it's completely empty. So most people, cause LA and Hollywood is an industry town, most people are in bed at that time. All those rich people that live behind those hedges work their asses off and get up at 5 in the morning. So it's always lights out at 10 o' clock over on that side of town. Unless your job is Premier Parties, which was Ronnie Chasen's job. That keeps you out a little bit later. So by 2010, Ronnie Chasen's clients had netted around 150 Oscar nominations. Oh my God. Seven of them had won Best Picture, including a three peat between 2008 and 2010. So she represented people that either worked on or made no country for Old Men, Slumdog Millionaire and the Hurt Locker.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. But tell us what a public does exactly. Not just the people listening, but myself as well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so a publicist is the person that makes sure that the press and the media know about their clients successes or career at the time. So like for her, like for publicists, like around Oscar time or awards season is like the busiest time. Cause that's when they want everybody to be on talk shows. They want everybody to be interviewed for newspapers and magazines and stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they don't reach out to you, publicists reach out to them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly. So they're basically, they would call and say, my client Steven has this amazing podcast called the Purrrcast that everyone's talking about these days and you've gotta get him before he goes big, so let's get some placement here, here and here. And they basically are like an amazing stage mom where they talk about you like you are going to be the next thing. And because everything in LA is about you don't want the current, you want the next big thing. So that's. The publicists deal in the world of that. Then they also just deal in the day to day of actually booking people on talk shows. And like all the stories from my experience of working on talk shows Is when something bad happens, like say someone cancels or flakes or say your show has to go down cause like the electricity went off or something. The people you don't wanna have to deal with are the publicists. Cause they're the people that come in and act on behalf of celebrities and they're the bad guy. So a celebrity will never be the one that's like, I don't wanna do your show. A publicist will be the one that's like, they can't do it for this reason. This reason. But we can do it here. And because I know you're disappointed, I can also get you this person. So they're just a master politician, They're a cheerleader and they hustle 24 7. It's an insanely hard job. I would never wanna do it. And it's a certain type of person that can do it. Cause you really do have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can't fucking do that. Are you kidding me?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No way. I mean, you're on the phone all the time and you have to play the game the hardest, I think, because you are really a salesperson. But for people. And so sometimes it's that. I mean, you've seen, you can watch it in movies. There's all kinds of movies about insider Hollywood stuff. But there are those times where publicists can make a star. Because it's like you just by a series of happenstance, it's like something will happen on a production and say somebody breaks their leg and they drop out and then they have to get replaced. Well, that person, like a team comes together and then starts pitching and fixing and whatever. I mean, this is a completely made up scenario. I don't know what the actual technical thing is. But a publicist is the kind of person that can come in and sell.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On an unknown and actually make someone's career. And they do that more often than a direct. It's always like a director discovered me or whatever. And it's usually a publicist or a casting director. Also. They're women who believe in people and watch people and vouch for people essentially.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And if someone owes them a favor, they could be like, well, put this person in your movie. He's my client.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's all about favors. And what if something happens? Then you owe them a favor or they owe you a favor. So then you get.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or they're reliable. They always bring me the right people. And this is the person I call first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In tv, that's what it all is. You start to learn. And I barely know that side. Cause that's the booking side, which I never had to deal with. And I wouldn't have been able to because I can't organize anything. And they're the most organized people in the world. But that's all they do all day, is have those conversations where it's like, well, since you owe us the one from that, now we want this person on the day that their show comes out. It's all like. It's crazy politics. It's amazing. So she was friends with a woman named Lily Zanuck. And she has a second name in there. And I didn't write it down, and then I couldn't find it. It's something Xanack. And I don't know if that means that she was married to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's, like, hyphenated.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was hyphenated. So maybe it's just important to her that her original name was in there. But I didn't write it down. Anyhow, this woman was friends with Ronny Chasen, and she was also a producer who won Best Picture with her husband, Richard Zanuck. They made Driving Miss Daisy. And Lily Zanuck was quoted as saying, the Driving Miss Daisy campaign was all Ronnie. And that's why I thanked her twice at the Oscars. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So it's just that kind of like the people in the business know who makes the engine go, basically. And a lot of times it's publicists. So Ronnie Chasen was born Veronica Cohen in Kingston, New York, in 1946. She grew up in the Bronx. She moved to LA to be an actress, and she changed her last name so that she had the same name as the famous restaurant Chasen's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Smart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, it's super smart. Cause it's like Chasen's is like an insider celebrity restaurant.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Like, is she or isn't she part of that family?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you just are like, oh, yeah, you better. She was on Guiding Light. She was on the Patty Duke Show. She's gorgeous. She looked like every other blonde actress in the 60s or 70s. I'm not actually sure. I'm sure she would hate me saying exactly when she was at that age. But basically, eventually, she transitions into PR and she builds this huge career, and she's just a hustler. And she's. Everyone said she was just. She was known for being brassy and unapologetically pushy. She just didn't give a shit. And she was also really honest. So she would tell people to their face. Like, she said, oh, she Had a friend named Kathy Berlin, who was a New York publicist. And Kathy Berlin said, I used to say that Rani got half her pieces placed because people would just say, enough already. Like she would just wear them down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she's also known as being real. People adored her. Obviously people like to talk about people being big assholes in this business. But in my opinion, especially for women, you can't be that big of an asshole and get by. People have to love you and you have to have loyalty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's be some charm thrown in there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's gotta be. Yeah, you gotta build loyalty to be as successful as this woman was. And there's a story that someone told. Cause someone who really loved her, who said she got a lot of flack because she used to always take a doggy bag home. No matter what fancy dinner she was at, no matter what fancy restaurant everybody being, trying to be Hollywood, she'd always take her food home in a doggy bag. And so people would whisper, oh, she cheap. Or oh, she whatever. And what she actually did was she would take her food, her leftovers to her mom's house so her mom could eat the fancy food that she was eating. And she would share the Hollywood night with her mom. Isn't that lovely?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So sweet. I know it's really hard for me to learn that you can't take half your food home at meetings.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, you can.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you can't. I like, I'm so bad at wasting food that like, I know I'm done. I could eat that at home in the, in my underpants.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. But I have to say this. My dad told me this a long time ago. My dad told me this when I was like seven, where I was like, really? Thanks for this amazing advice. But you, somebody was like, don't salt your food before you taste it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was, that whole story of there was like somebody lost a job. Because it shows that like, you need to be able to try things and decide how they are as they are. Don't just decide, you need to salt it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're assuming things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, seven year old.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thanks dad. That's really helped me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You'll always get by, kid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's. I was just gonna say that's a similar thing where there could be somebody that you eat with that watches you take your food home cause you wanna keep it and you goes, she's a smart, frugal customer that doesn't give a shit who's watching her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those Are always the stories in Hollywood anyways. People not going along with the flow and being like, I want my fucking doggy bag full of grilled cheese or whatever. Anyhow, let's get back to biz. So we're. Now it's a long, hard night of work for Ronnie Chase, and she pulls up at this intersection in Beverly Hill between Sunset and Whittier. No other cars, as we've said, no pedestrians. In that situation, it's not unheard of for a Hollywood bigwig to just go ahead and take a left on a red. It's their neighborhood. They do what they want anyway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They take forever. Those lights.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They take forever, and no one's gonna see it. No one's gonna see it. But Ronnie didn't do that. She waited for the green, and that's when she was ambushed by a lone gun. He approached the passenger side of her car, and he shot her four times through the window.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was hit twice in the chest, once in her upper right arm, and once through her right shoulder. That bullet went into her heart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was that shot that was believed to have killed her. Her car then took the left and drove down Whittier south and glided a quarter of a mile down that windy street until it hit a light pole and crashed and set off the passenger airbags and was basically a car accident. A couple minutes later, a couple passing in a car spotted the accident, and he pulled over, saw what happened, called 911, but people had already called because they heard gunshots in Beverly Hills, so everybody was calling the Beverly Hills police. Ronnie Chasen was rushed to see Sinai Hospital, and she was pronounced dead at 1:12am so most people assumed when they heard about this, it was either a carjacking or someone had taken out a hit on her. Because it's such a weird the idea. Just to give you a sense, I got most of this information from an article that guy. Gary Baum. Not Guy Branham. Gary Baum wrote for the Hollywood Reporter. And when he wrote this article, it was 2016. And in the article, he said there have been no homicides in Beverly Hills since 2011.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So in that five years, zero homicides.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In Beverly Hills?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Insane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You'd think someone would want to kill his wife.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, there had been the. Five years previous, There had been five homicides. Two of them had been that exact thing. Domestic abuse, domestic homicides. And those were solved. And then there were two other ones that were solved. And one was the shooting death of Mark Ruffalo's brother, which I'd never heard of. Mark Ruffalo was a hair. Mark Ruffalo had a brother. I believe his name was Scott, and he was a hairdresser, and he lived in Beverly Hills, and he was shot to death in his house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And they never solved it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who did it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen Towney.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, right? So anyway, that's like it for Beverly Hills. Now. We talk about fucking, you know, Filipino Town. The thing we were just talking about earlier, where it's like, how many homicides are there in a month? Much less in years and years. In 10 years, they'd had five. And then there was this. So that's insane. Anyway, which is the reason the movie Beverly Hills Cop worked so well, because truly, nothing bad happens there. It's the home of all the rich people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Everyone watch it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's such a good movie. It holds up. It holds up so well. Okay, sorry. So I lost my place. So also, just know this. Ronny Chasen's estate was worth $6.1 million at the time of her death.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, so she was doing very well for herself. She was also single, no kids. She was, you know, like a working lady. So. Three weeks after the night of the shooting, the Beverly Hills Police Department holds a press conference and states that the case has been closed. The suspect was an ex con named Harold Smith who had served time twice for robbery, once in 1998 for a purse snatching, where when the woman resisted, he broke her jaw. And that happened on Doheny Boulevard, which was about a quarter of a mile east of where Ronny Chasen had been shot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so this is how they found Harold Smith, a neighbor of his. So he lived in this place called the Harvey Apartments, which is on Santa Monica Boulevard. Just. It's actually just north of Santa Monica Boulevard, kind of behind Paramount over there. It's basically Santa Monica in Western, which is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not a great neighborhood.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not a great neighborhood. And this apartment building was not good at all. It was mostly. It was a lot of drug addicts and just people who were just getting by. It was bad news. So a neighbor of Harold Smith's calls in a tip to America's Most Wanted, saying that he had shown up. Harold Smith had shown up at this neighbor's apartment 90 minutes after the killing in Beverly Hills, asking if anything had been reported on tv, and then saying that he needed to go back to Beverly Hills because he had left his bike there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then the neighbor said he Saw the report of Ronny Chasen's murder on the news and he knew. He put it all together, right? So at 5:30pm on December 1, after Beverly Hills police get this tip, they go out to question Harold Smith. They find him in the lobby of the Harvey Apartments. And when they identify themselves to him as police, Harold pulls a.38 out of his pocket and shoots himself in the head.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shut the fuck. How did I not fucking know this part?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, it's crazy. I've never heard this part. I knew about this shooting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, me too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I've never heard this part.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so this neighbor that had called in the tip, he had been keeping some boxes for Harold Smith because Harold had been evicted from the Harvey apartment six days before. And that's why Harold came back to that guy's house that night. Some of his stuff was there. So the police find this out, or know this, and go up to the neighbor's house and start looking through Harold Smith's stuff that's in the neighbor's apartment. And there they find four spent shell casings among Smith's belongings. And they test those against the blood sticks. And the Ronnie Chase murder. They're a match. The police announced they have their guy and the case is closed. They took such a confident position at this press conference that even though they had not looked into her bank statements, they had not looked onto hard drive of her computer, they had not checked her cell phone record. They eventually got to that the following March. But at the time they made that announcement, they had not looked into almost anything in her life. And the fact that she. A lot of people make note of the fact that she had an estate with no heirs worth $6.1 million and a family, you know, she. Sorry. So I'll just finish this. The following July, Beverly Hills police issued a news release stating that it completed the exhaustive investigation. And without a doubt, it's the conclusion of robbery homicide detectives that the sole perpetrator of this heinous crime was Harold Martin Smith. So last year the Beverly Hills police finally released the files on this case. And they were partially redacted so you couldn't read everything in them. But this reporter that wrote for the Hollywood Reporter read the ballistics report and it actually. The ballistics report actually says that although the two guns in this case have similar characteristics, they're too insignificant for identification. So actually their ballistics report does not confirm that he was their guy at all. The files also reveal that the police did not dust for fingerprints on the Right side of the car, which was where the shots were fired from.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Fingerprints. Dusted over there. They also never released the security camera footage from the neighborhood the night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone has security cameras.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fucking Beverly Hills. And a man named T.T. williams Jr. Who was a retired LAPD homicide detective who. He gets called to testify about police procedure a lot. He was stated as saying this about the lack of video footage memorializing Smith near the crime. He said, quote, there has to be some security cameras in that neighborhood that would have caught him. I mean, Beverly Hills. Give me a break. You've got a black man supposedly on a bike in the middle of the night. He'd be stopped 15 times. He would have stood out like a sore thumb.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Seriously.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And not surprisingly, they never released the footage from the lobby of the Harvey apartment the night of Harold Smith's suicide. And they had security cameras in that lobby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that whole moment where the cops identify themselves, that's all on camera. No one's ever seen that footage. Wow. Also of note, the gun that Harold Smith pulled out of his pocket and shot himself to death with was later determined to have been reported stolen three years earlier by a retired LAPD officer from his home in Santa Clarita.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, okay. Just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just a little. A bit of a question mark there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guns get stolen all the time, then they go on the black market. Anyone can have them. Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the fact that it wasn't a cop's gun, a retired policeman's gun, isn't, I think. Isn't good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally isn't. That's not. It's the. Oh, I said it's exactly that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I can connect those. Which I'm not gonna say, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I mean, it just. So I'll end with this, which I think is very interesting. It's a quote from a man named Stan Kephart, who is a former police chief in Arizona. And he also serves as an expert witness in cases involving law enforcement operational standards. And he said this. It's not what you think about a suspect. It's what you can prove. And it appears that there is room for doubt that Harold Smith is the perpetrator in this case.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They didn't really prove factually that he was the perpetrator. They just basically said he was and closed the case. And he's dead. He can't defend himself. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so interesting when you hear, like, well, he had this, and he did this that night, and this thing happened, and he's done this and that, and you're like, yeah, okay. He's obviously. He obviously did it the end. But you don't think about the, like the deep. The deep evidence or the basic things like fingerprinting that side of the car or the obvious things like security cameras. You just hear these blanket statements and you're like, duh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But, well, you go, that's easy. Like, that's an easy. You tell me that a black ex con is shot. Somebody. Oh, here's the other thing. Her purse was still in the car. It's a Prada bag. It was on the passenger seat. So they're saying that he shot into this car four times and didn't take anything. There was nothing taken from the car. So he just. It's not a smash and grab. It's not his style. It's not his MO which we do know can escalate. But in this case, he didn't even steal anything. So now he's gone straight to murder. So basically he's not even a. It's not robbery anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It just doesn't make sense for someone to do that there either, because you can't then blend in with the rest of the city. You can't go hide in someone's backyard. No, you're just. You're like, waiting. What are they called? Duck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A sitting duck. Well, also you. So that actually takes apart a bunch of things because they figured out that that neighbor who said that he put it all together because he knew then it was Ronny Chasen's murder. Her name wasn't released until the next morning. So there was no way he could have known that during that conversation. Also, if he. If it was 90 minutes after. After the shooting took place, how did he get back to those apartments that fast?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Especially if he left his bike.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what, did he leave his bike and jump on a night bus from Beverly Hills into Hollywood?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And in that case, then they should have had the bus driver testify.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Or that would have been in the report if someone had seen him coming back. That would have all been added to the argument that it was him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, there were. And I mean, this is like. This isn't even speculation. It's just like, kind of random facts. But there were family members in her family that in her. She had rewritten a new will in 2006, but they couldn't find that will, so they went off of her 1994 will. And in that will, she gave the majority of her estate to one of her nieces.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she had another Niece. That in the will, it said, I knowingly and being aware of the implications this might cause, leave you $10.

[Georgia Hardstark]

94. I mean, maybe she was a drug addict then and sucked. And then 96. They were like, all right. I just don't understand how. Don't you have to file a will, like, with a lawyer?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. In fact, I watched this thing, Joy bae. It was what I. It may be headline news, whatever. Joy Behar was the host of it. It was just a YouTube video, but this woman on it said, you actually can write on a napkin, this is my last will and testament. It doesn't have to be filed anywhere. If you sign it and you are of sound mind, it's legal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That seems so absurd, because it's like. It's just. Then someone can pick it up out of your fucking sock drawer, light it on fire, and there's no will, and I'm the next experiment. You know what I mean? Like, you would think you wanted to get. You'd want to get it notarized and give it to someone that, well, you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Should keep it in a safe place. Yeah, definitely. But you. But it's just the legality of it. It doesn't need a lawyer's. Anything. This is what this woman on this thing said, that it doesn't need any. It doesn't need a notary or anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Such a. It's like. It's that thing of, like, well, if you can get away with it, then. Then congratulations. There's no. No one will look into it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With what. What are you talking about?

[Georgia Hardstark]

With burning someone's will or, like, getting rid of the 2006 will. Right then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, that's exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Congratulations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, yeah, but that. I mean, that's why you keep things in. You know, something like a will you would keep in a. What do you call that? A safety deposit box.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but what if she goes and. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When you don't give out those keys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've never had a safety deposit box, but I will only have one key. When I do, I have a P.O.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Box. And it's very exciting. It's like. You feel like a grownup.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, I think that's a fascinating one, because I saw. Oh, there's a show called Demons in the City of Angels, which. It's hilarious that it's, like, specific only to Los Angeles. But that. That's what caught my attention. Cause it started and I watched it going, oh, I do wanna know how this turned out? Because I remember hearing about it and then hearing nothing and basically it's just them going, we kind of don't buy it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And isn't it interesting that you and I, who remember this happening and it kind of being it was in your industry than mine, we had never heard about it again. It's almost like, yeah, they got the guy really low key. Maybe not letting a lot of reporters into the press conference. Does that make sense? Yeah, you know what I mean? It's interesting that we never heard anything more about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She had a bunch of friends in this article. It made me sad because it's like, you know this type of woman, you know this lady. Oh yeah, that's like, she's smart and sharp and like pushy enough to make. To be the top in the top of the business in such a hard business. They all her fronts say if it was her friend that died in a suspicious way, she wouldn't rest until she found out what really happened. And she wouldn't take no for an answer. And she would. So that's. It's really sad because I think it's that thing of like, there's a lot of people going, I wish I could do something, or I wish I knew something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or maybe they're right and am I supposed to do something even if I think the cops are right? Like, what do I do?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, it's just so. It's just too convenient. Like to find who the fuck keeps four spent shell casings in their like, box in their boxes. Shitty apartment.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You didn't check them into the LA river as you were walking home in 90 minutes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But you leave your bike at the scene of the crime.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, sure. None of it. Also, how do you get. How do you get back across town in 90? You can't get anywhere in 90 minutes in Los Angeles.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Not even in a fucking car. I mean, the traffic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's great. That was really interesting. I never followed up on that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hopefully we'll hear more about it soon. They're trying to make. They were trying to make a documentary about it, but they were having a lot of problems.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it's funny because we're having a theme today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Los Angeles. What did the LAPD do? Question mark.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Racial issues. What happened? Tampering, et cetera.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But first I have to pee. Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is where the commercial will go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we are back. Karen, any updates?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I guess the update and I. In the next episode you will hear the next rewind episode. We'll talk about the Gary Baum misattribution. And I explain it there. But it was essentially me cutting and pasting Wikipedia, you know, writing down, Googling this, watching that TV show that. Then the one direct quote from Gary Bown was the only attribution, when in fact the entire layout of the story was because of his investigative journalism.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so it's great because this basically opened my eyes to like, the only reason we were able to tell stories. And I think I said this on the next episode. So we'll go over all of it. But it's like we can only do this because of true crime journalists and investigative journalists.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's like what we're doing is we're gabbing about the things we watch that other people created about the true crime story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So now when you listen, and I think from this moment on, we intro the story and then we say, like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some of the sources, some of the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sources we know, we name our sources every time. And we did that here and there, like throughout our stories before, but we never specifically did that and put in the show notes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that's just so important.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And there was no one else to copy that did it that way. So we were just kind of doing it the way it was done, which is not an excuse. And clearly the credit needs to go to Gary Baum. So I think it now has after these eight years, but to talk about Ronny Chasen's murder, there are no true updates on the case. But Gary Baum, the journalist, continues to call attention to and the patterns in law enforcement that basically he talks about profiling and killing black suspects in cases like these. So following the George Floyd protests in 2021, the Beverly Hills Police Department was sued for disproportionately arresting black pedestrians the previous year. Okay, so because of that, the police chief at the time, a woman named Sandra Spagnoli, she retired after facing a series of lawsuits about that, including allegations of racist rapid remarks. And the city of Beverly Hills had to pay out millions. So when Spagnoli's replacement, a man named Mark Stainbrook, joined the squad or was promoted to that job and was installed In December of 2021, journalist Gary Baum called for him to reopen the murder of Ronnie Chasen for the sake of justice, essentially, like, you can't let this just go unsolved, which is incredible just years and years later. And he also called out the silence in Hollywood itself in. In the entertainment industry. They had the opportunity to cause a ruckus and get some answers in this murder. And nobody said a word totally. Which is super weird and very true, but I Do think that that was a time where, like, we are now used to, like, voting with your wallet and saying something in social media and whatever, where it's like that was the kind of thing where in especially the entertainment industry, no one sticks their neck out for fucking anybody unless they're gon be guaranteed that they're going to make money or be protected or whatever it is. Whatever it is. But if you're going to be the first one to stand up and be some sort of whistleblower.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guaranteed you're by yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how this business kind of works. So it doesn't surprise me that people didn't stand up and go, I demand this thing. Also, I think a lot of people were like, how did that happen? Who would have done it? Is it somebody on. On the inside?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you think it is? Do you think? It's just a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To me, it seems like such a specific hit and that to me, where it happened on Sunset, if I'm not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mistaken, right by the Beverly Hills Hotel.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. And it's just a weird. It's like they would have had to have known that was a good spot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because no one's there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No one's there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like, unless it's 5 to 7. Exactly. It's 9 to 11 or 5 to 7. That's a place that's mostly residential.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it would be a perfect place. It's super dark.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a huge intersection. So like someone walking their dog across the street wouldn't actually see anything because it's such a big street. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's Beverly Hills, so it's real quiet and it's everybody's. There's high hedges. It's not like people are looking out their window at you. It just to me felt like very inside in that way where it's like. It wasn't like a carjacking on Hollywood Boulevard where it's like, holy shit, this crazy thing is. It's like over as quiet. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's just a theory.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So let's get into Georgia's story now about the murder of Mitrice Richardson.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

That's simplisafe.com F A V. There's no.

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I'm looking at the Satsiki chicken shawarma power bowl and literally I'm like, that could take care of everything. It takes what, 10 minutes to make?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you could make that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I could make it and then I would be done and I could actually have it for lunch probably the next day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely. I believe in you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Experience the new standard in bras with Honey Honey Love. Goodbye. So this is one I've wanted to do for a while, but it's scary to tackle because it's kind of big and it's. Every time I go back to look into it, it's just like it's a lot. Okay. This is the story of Maitrice Richardson. Do you know this one? You probably will once I tell you so. 7:00pm Around 7:00pm on the night of September 17th, 17th, 2009, 24 year old Mitrice Richardson pulls her Honda Civic into the parking lot of Joffrey's, which is a fancy pants restaurant on the Pacific Coast Highway. Do you know which I'm talking about?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's one of those like Joffrey's. It's like super fancy fans.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like on the coast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like on the coast in Malibu. Yeah, yeah, it's very like. It's spelled Joffrey, not Jeffrey. You know what I mean? While she's there, from the valet to ordering her food, interacting with other patrons, her behavior is erratic and bizarre. But she wasn't threatening in any way. When the bill came for $89.51, Matrice couldn't pay. So when she was confronted by staff, she announced that she had come to avenge Michael Jackson.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Management decides to call the police and they say we have a guest here who was refusing to pay her bill. And we think she may, she sounds really crazy. She may be on drugs or Something. But Mitrice Richardson wasn't on drugs. She's a 24 year old, smart and beautiful African American woman from south la. She had graduated from California State University, Fullerton with a Bachelor of Arts in psychology the year before. And at the time she worked at a. An administrative assistant at a freight company. But she wanted to work with children. And at the time she volunteered as a mentor for at risk children and worked with kids at a cheerleading camp. So it's not really known why she was in Malibu, though, which was 40 miles from her home. They think maybe she was visiting the campus of Pepperdine, which is right by Joffrey's, to look at the campus. But just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, side note, I told my mom when I was a junior in high school that I wanted to go to Pepperdine because my friend Jen Mason's older sister Becky went there. And my mother laughed in my face and said, who's going to pay for that? Because Pepperdine is insanely expensive. Volleyball, college on the beach.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Basically, it's Tony.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's for the rich.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's for rich people. As is Joffrey's, which is how you build an $89 dinner for one person.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I could do that at Applebee's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, let's be honest. I had a $60 lunch today with Vince. So let's be. Let's be realistic here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I swear to God, sometimes when I start, when I get a pretzel as a. As an appetizer, I could just eat nine pretzels.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do it. It.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ch. Cheese sauce.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, well, I mean, that's crucial. I'm not going to eat them dry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What do I look like, big and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Soft and then have like a thing of that cheese sauce.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Am I a monster mustard? I hate when they try to get creative. Mustard. Okay. I hate when they try to be like this stupid aioli or whatever the fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then. Oh, like a. It's a mustard that's got spicy honey in it now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, just give me cheese sauce like they serve at Applebee.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's all we want is what anyone wants. Cheese soup.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But we can't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We know it, because polite society says it's not okay unless you're in, like, Wisconsin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So give me a bread to dip it in it and be okay with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fine, I'll pretend it's a dip.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fine, fine, fine. It's the same thing with onion soup. Like, I just want to eat bread and cheese with a spoon.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But fine. You can put a little broth underneath it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you need me to be that way. Okay. Sorry. That was a real left turn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cheerleading camp. So they don't know why she was there, but it seems that she was suffering at the time of a previously undiagnosed manic episode, which is also evidenced by her. Her Facebook posts recently, which were incoherent and rambling. She said things like. Like, there are signs everywhere with a smiley face. And then another said, I just want to sleep. Lol. But you know me and my crazy ideas. Let's see where they take me. Smiley face. Yeah. So that's like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did she not know she was manic?

[Georgia Hardstark]

From what I can tell, no. And her mom, I think they were all very surprised by it, by the fact that this is. They think that's what happened for sure, but. But nobody knew what was going to happen. It seems like it was undiagnosed and unknown.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm sorry to ask this, but when was this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

2009.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Okay. No, no one listens in the beginning of what year it is. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's hard to focus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I just get to the story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I settled down. I'm still thinking of stuff I said. My story, my thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

2009. Where were you? You were near 2010. Oh, my God. This is like. It's like we picked a theme for this episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But we didn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That weird chunk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're just like. It's like our periods are synced, but our murders are synced instead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's all coming together in the red tent.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen. Yeah, Stephen's writing this one down because he's blushing so hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He loves the good period jokes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sisters. Sisters. Signs. Three nights after that last post she wrote, she's at Joffrey's going through this shit. Three LAPD deputies arrive. They call Matrice's. It's Mitrice, I believe. Not Matrice, Maitrice's great grandmother, who offers to pay the bill, but she would have had a fax and image of her credit card, which she wasn't able to do because who the fuck has a fucking fax machine in 2009?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't you hate that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So they were like, nope. Sorry, Grandma. Sorry, great Grandma. You can't do this. They search her car and they find a very small amount of marijuana, as well as bottles of vodka and tequila. Tequila and half a case of beer. But they gave her a field sobriety test and she passed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I'm sorry, but the officers could have placed Mitrice in an involuntary Psychiatric hold based on her odd behavior. But they said that that would require a lot of paperwork and a trip to the hospital. So instead, they arrested her on charges of suspicion of not paying for the meal and possession of less than one ounce of marijuana. Marijuana. And they took her to Lost Hills Police Department. Oh, I know. Upon her arrest, her phone, purse, and money are locked in her car, and the car is towed to a tow yard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What? Why? She's gonna need that after.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, Lost Hills Police Department again, fancy pants police department and a fancy pants part of Malibu, like, really nice and area. It's the same station where Mel Gibson was taken after being pulled over for drunk driving and yelling anti Semitic slurs. Same station, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But they let him keep his purse.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, they escorted him from Lost Hills to his towed car. Cause they treat famous and rich people, which is what their neighborhood is. And white people, remember in the Big Lebowski, stay out of my beach community. He throws a mug at Big Lebowski's face. It's like that. Yeah. Yeah. And stay out of my beach community. It's just like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Unfortunately, my trees didn't receive the same treatment as a famous asshole. My trees mother called the Lost hill station around 10pm and all of these phone calls you can hear on YouTube, and I fucking listened to them. Oh, no. She's asking if they're gonna book her and release her that night. And saying, it's dark and she doesn't have a car and I don't want her wandering. And she's like, I'll come pick her up right now, but if you keep her, that's fine. I'll get her in the morning. I just want to know you're not going to release her. And this woman is, you know, she's clearly upset, but she's just like, I don't know what's happening. I'll deal with it. She's a together woman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The mother said she's not from that area. And I would hate to wake up to a morning report saying, girl lost somewhere and her head chopped off. But the deputy assured Mitrice's mother not to worry. I can't breathe. Hold on. Okay, but yet, at 12:30 in the morning, Mitrice with only the clothes on her back and without a purse, money, or her phone, was released into the darkness and cold of the Santa Monica Mountains.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which you and I like. Let's set the stage again. From Beverly Hills to Santa Monica Mountain in Malibu. It is fucking remote. It's huge houses on a lot of land that Butt up against the Santa Monica Mountain, which are not pretty hiking trails. They're fucking wilderness.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's scrub brush. There's nothing commercial around there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, that's what they said too, is nothing was open at that point. All businesses are closed. They close at like 6.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And there's. It's like, even the businesses that are there are really few and far between. It's not like. Yeah, you have to basically be down in the city of Malibu to be close to anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the Santa Monica Mountain is. Is where all the mountain lions live. And it's really rocky and hilly. I went to Jewish camp there, and it was totally wilderness. I mean, it was not cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. It's not the city.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it's really not. And this is a city girl who had never been out in the wilderness like this. So all businesses are closed. Public transportation doesn't really exist out there. They have bus to the shopping center and back, but not real transportation. And she's 11 miles from her car at the Malibu Tow. The walk would have taken her up and down hills, through a tunnel, along the shoulder of a highway winding through the mountains, which I fucking have driven there. And you get carsick just from driving. It's a crazy mountain.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, I'll tell you this from my research. 11 miles, just so you know, it's 13 miles from Beverly Hills to downtown Los Angeles. So she would have had to walk slightly less than that long all the way down Sunset. That's ridiculous.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a day's walk. So when her mom calls the next morning, she finds out that Mitrice had been released. And I listened to the fucking message, the call, and it's. They're blowing. The officer is blowing her off. And she's like, how long do I have to wait to file a missing persons report? And he's like, well, wait a couple hours and then call us back. Like, they're very. Being very casual. And she's like, she doesn't know the area. She didn't have anything on her. What the hell's going on? And they were very flippant about it and were like, let me try to track things down. Call me in a couple hours. Which is like, can you imagine waiting for your child for a couple hours? And then. And then she said, you know, she doesn't know the area and she's in a depressive state, so she probably had some clue, you know, that something was triggering.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So at 5:30 that morning, a homeowner in Cold Canyon, which is. Is right next to the actual Santa Monica mountain canyon called Lost Hills to say that there was a prowler walking around. He told the dispatcher that the prowler had been sitting kind of sprawled out on these wooden steps in the back of the house, but had disappeared into the surrounding wilderness. And other neighbors said that they heard and saw Mitrice either leaving or attempting to enter the man's home, and that they heard loud screams in a vacant home around the time that she went down missing. But they searched the area and didn't find anything. And later they searched the area. They called the police. I don't know if they came. That was the last time Mitrice was seen alive. She disappeared into the Santa Monica mountains and for five months, the Lost Hills. So she disappeared, super crazy wilderness gone. With only her clothes that she had on. T shirt, jeans, sneakers. So for five months, Lost Hills insisted that there was no surveillance tape of the police station because they wanted to see this. You know, like, what happened? When did she leave? What state was she in? But they miraculously found the tape five months later sitting on a desk. According to Mitrice's mother, the tape shows her daughter in an obvious psychological. An obvious psychological distress Inside the interview. Take toe cell. She clust quote, she clutches at the mesh screening and is rocking side to side like a small child. Says a cousin of hers. But a spokesperson for the department said about releasing her, she exhibited no signs of mental illness or intoxication. She was fine. She's an adult. Okay, but you don't let them go without a fucking wallet or cell phone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. None of this makes sense. Like, it doesn't add up. Is she an adult? Then. Then what's like, then why are you treating her? Why would you lock her purse away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And not answer questions to her parents?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, don't worry. It gets worse, okay? Like it always does. So the station log shows that Mitrice made four phone calls to her grandmother. But AT&T phone records don't reflect those calls for whatever reason. So the surveillance tape also shows a deputy leaving the station right after Mitrice was released. Like, leaving towards where she was going. But the deputy maintained that he wasn't at the station before the tapes were released. He said he wasn't there that night. Then when he was caught in his lie, he stated, the night this nonsense happened, I was one of the guys that kept away from this, minding my own business. Which is, like, what? That insinuates that something was going on that you kept out of. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, also, it's your job to be at the Police station and take care of the people that are at the police station. That's not nonsense. That's your job of a person's in distress. This is a person that is in mental distress.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, the nonsense could have been the actions police took when she got there there, whatever happened to her there, if anything happened to her there. I'm speculating. So that's the nonsense he could have been talking about, you know what I mean? So three. It wasn't until three months later, January 2010, that Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department conducted. So three months later conducts one of the largest scale searches in the history of the department. Over 300 volunteers trained in search and rescue. Participants participate in the 18 square mile search of the area of Malibu Canyon and the hills of Malibu Creek State Park. They find racially and sexually offensive graffiti on the walls of a culvert in the canyon. The graffiti was freshly painted and the paint cans, brushes and other potential evidence was left at the scene. And Matrice wasn't found. Finally, almost a year after she disappeared from the station in August 2010, park rangers who were looking to see if marijuana growers had returned to Dark Canyon, they stumble on Mitrice's naked, mummified body. She was in a very secluded creek bed in Malibu Canyon with the clothes she was wearing the night she disappeared scattered around.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, so they had been taken off of her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or she took them off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now, here's the most fucked up thing. Okay, okay. Deputies, by protocol, should have waited for the coroner to arrive so that Mitrice's remains could be photographed, the site inspected for clues and the crime scene assessed. Established instead, against orders by the coroner, who later said that he, quote was very clear with officials, the deputies bagged Richardson's remains and airlifted them by helicopter. Whoa. Before the coroner could even get there. Whoa, this is. Okay. The coroner said that he could not think of another case in which police agency had moved entire skeletal remains without corners of the to prove this point. Months later, Mitrice's mother. So this is proof how badly it was done. Mitrice's mother was visiting the site where her daughter's body was found and found a finger bone that belonged to Mitrice left behind in the dessert. In the dessert, in the dirt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think there's an article that they're with her and they find that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Finds in the spot. Oh, look. And digs out a fucking finger that had been left behind because the proper people didn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did they eventually prove it really was hers?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it Was her for sure. And there have also been small toe bones, finger and vertebrae found left behind. And also the bones from her neck. There's bones from her neck, foot and hand missing from, you know, her body, her remains. So what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, the fuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This was such a crazy case because. Because I followed it step by step. So her leaving, I was like, what happened? And everyone was like, what could have happened to her? And then you see the surveillance video and you're like, oh, that's some shady shit. Then they find her body and then the bones are fucked up. It's just like, it just keeps getting worse. So the disturbance made it so that the coroner was unable to determine how she died.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, of course. I think that would be the idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. And the jeans, belt and black bra that were discovered a few feet from her body, they were found, but they were not tested for signs of foul play and were buried along with her. So they weren't tested for any DNA, any you know, ripping or anything that would have. Uh huh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is like that thing it just reminds me of where you don't know what things you need to be in place until you realize they're not in place. So it's like once a coroner tells people, don't move that body and the police airlift the body away, shouldn't then those police be frozen in no longer? They're no longer active duty in this case because they're clearly hiding something. Like there should be protocol for the coroner to then go to some other police chief.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And this is where. So this article I was gonna, that I got a lot of info on, it's a Newsweek article by Alexander Nazarian who. This article is really great because he talks a lot about the LAPD corruption and why this could have taken place and the like rampant racism that was going on at the time to a point where, you know, the second in command is going to prison for 15 years because of corruption. So it's incredibly corrupt. There's like, you know, rampant anti. Rampant racism. And so he tells. I don't talk about it a lot in this, but he tells background of why this is so obvious and you know, could have happened this way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When you. And I think most people that are into true Crime watched the ESPN 30 by 30 of G. Simpson. That part of the Daryl Gates era of the LAPD was so shocking and eye opening to me. And it going all the way back to the riots in the 60s. It's just so crazy how long this has been a humongous problem in Los Angeles that Hasn't been solved or even really addressed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, no, for sure. And it's not happening anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It hasn't changed at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it's just hidden better and we've put a band aid over some of the things to make it look less horrifying, but it's still there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and also it's the rational, the justification of using the violence and the crime that happens in the day to day to day, then justify any behavior on the part. I mean, it's just, it sucks. I have a bunch of people who are police people in my family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not anti police. It's down to the person, though. Especially in this day and age. It's down to the person because there's. Because it's just such a. It's like such a closed, you know, like it's a frat, basically.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, yeah. And in la, and I'm sure a lot of other cities specifically, the cards are stacked against you. If you're not white and you don't have money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're, you know, the cards are stacked against you. You're not. You don't start at zero sum.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

At all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I, Yeah, I don't, you know, I don't want to forget that as someone who lives here and, and knows that I'm fucking privileged as shit to be where I'm at. Well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also, just we don't have to think about how bad it could be. I mean, this is like saying you can't be mentally ill or you will just be almost literally thrown to the wolves. It's insanity. And what did happen to her at that police station, then it opens up that whole door.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The mental illness thing is incredible because it's like you should have taken her and admitted her for psychiatric treatment because she was mentally unstable and unsound to make her own decisions. And not only did you not do that and keep her in prison or keep her in jail until her mother could come or someone could come. You let her out without money, without a jacket, without any. You knew she wasn't going to get anywhere. It's not like she could have hitchhiked or maybe she did hitchhike and that's what happened. But they're still culpable, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, yeah. Also, what's the. If you know. See, that's the thing is this isn't just a random person that they don't know and like, well, too bad for you and you're an adult, there's someone contacting you, telling you what the situation is telling you there are concerns and you still do the thing against that person's wishes. That's what makes. Leads me to believe something else was taking place. Because why would you hide? Why would you say we just let her go and she left and it's not our problem. She's an adult that it makes that feels like cover up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so crazy. The mom specifically was like, she doesn't know the area and I don't want her to get killed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But what's so frustrating to me listening to the tape of her mother calling is like this feeling of nobody. Like, I think a lot about when you call the cops and they don't help you, what do you. You can't call the cops again on. Like, that's your last. Yes, that's your last. That's supposed to be the last option is you call the cops and they help you. Yeah, but it's so sad to be like, the minute they told her to wait two hours and she hung up the phone. I picture her in her house and her family having to wait two hours. That's insane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And she's not a runaway. You know, you let. You guys let her out and the minute they're like, oh, shit, then they're couples and they're open for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and also it doesn't make sense because it's like, oh, if you're gonna treat this person like, oh, they're. Look, she went to a restaurant, she ate $80 worth of food and she couldn't pay for it, and we arrested her. Okay, got it. All of that makes sense to me. It is illegal to do that thing. But then you learn there are extenuating circumstances. And so clearly it wasn't that big of a crime to you if you just released her the next day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you didn't. There. This isn't. You're not holding her for robbery or what would that be? You're not holding her. That's not stealing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, when I. When I was a teenage. No. Like in seventh grade and got caught stealing, you know, they give you a ticket. Like they ticket you. Like, cop would.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you move on, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like, why didn't that just happen? Well, it's because they've been searched her copy car and found, you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then they're not holding her for drugs. They're not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, because she took a sobriety test and she passed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It doesn't. It's just like you can't. You can't justify the Police action in this because it. Nothing is adding up to. This is a criminal. And so we treated her like a criminal. It's like this is a person. This is, say a criminal who ate $80 worth of food that she couldn't pay for in a manic episode where people do way crazier shit than that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, yeah, we've talked about Elisa Lam and how that could have been how she got in the water tank, which if you compare these two cases, it's like. Yeah, you do crazy shit when you're going through a manic episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But also. Also the Lost. I feel like you're talking about. We're talking about a police department or a police. Yeah, a police department. Lost Hills, that deals mostly with rich white people upset about something. They don't know how to deal with something like this. And so they. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. So that. I think that makes a big difference. It's not like it was, you know, the Hollywood Police Department department, which also wouldn't have been as big of a deal because if they let her out in Hollywood, she'd have fucking places to go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and also I would think that they would be much more used to dealing with people with mental illness. The Hollywood Police Department. Like, there's that one on Wilcox that's just like never not hopping day and night. There's somebody pulling in or pulling out of that because that's my sneak up to get out of Hollywood and go home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't tell anyone the sneaks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wilcox, that's Ms. Neat Wilcox, man. That's like. That's the north south fountain. Yeah, but totally. But I mean, like, you're right. It's like. It's almost like a privileged police department because they don't have that much happening there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So they don't have experience with these sorts of things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when they do, it's like some crazily rich drunk white woman in Mel Gibson who's like, fuck you. Or Mel Gibson who. Or I think didn't also they pull over Reese Witherspoon and she said, do you know who I am?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that I met. You're right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm pretty sure that happened in Malibu.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But anyway, whatever. That's that kind of thing of like everyone's kind of living up to this certain. So it's suddenly like, oh, there's a black girl that ate food she couldn't pay for. So now we're going to treat her like the criminal she is. Well, okay, but then that means you would. That would mean process her in a criminal way that keeps her safe, at least that. The thing of the mom going, please don't let her go. That.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's just. We have to get plumbers. So my beautiful new house is now having plumbing problems.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know, but I hope that's not a ghost. It's just plumbing problems. It just suddenly starts like. Like it's about to overflow with, like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucking with racial tension.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right. Yes, all of that is correct. They find her body, all these bones are missing. They can't determine how she died. And then her shit's not tested for foul play. Okay, then there's no explanation given for why investigators were never able to find her Vans sneakers or her T shirt that she was wearing when she disappeared.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Her jeans, Bella and black bra were there, which is like. You could be like, well, animals came and got them, but it's like, why would they pick a pair of shoes and a T shirt and not all this other stuff? And her body wasn't messed with. It's not right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, I. That makes me think of. I did those stories about the deaths on Mount Hood. I mean, was no Crater Lake. The Crater Lake stories that I did in Portland. And one of them, there was a guy that. They found his body, like, years later, and it was a skeleton sitting in jeans. Like, jeans don't just come off. It's not. Animals can't take your jeans off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right, Right. Yes. Animals can't take your jeans off is what Steven's writing down right now. I can tell.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't think about what he's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. We need a booth to put him in where we can't see him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also going back to the Elisa Lam thing, she took her clothes off too, Right? That's the thing that. That happens to manic people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And, you know, I think another thing people don't understand is how fucking cold it gets in the. I know LA is like, warm all the time, but in the mountains in la, and especially in Malibu by the ocean, you're next to the ocean, really fucking cold.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's cold.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So maybe she was having hypothermia, which is a thing that they take their clothes off. But then why wouldn't they have found the rest of the. Of them, you know, traced her, the trail she took, and found the other stuff. Okay. Mitrice's parents have maintained that their daughter should never have been released on her own by the Sheriff's Department. They filed several lawsuits against the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. For releasing her from jail, even though they claim she was experiencing severe bipolar disorder at the time. In 2011, they won a civil lawsuit against the county. However, two reports by the Office of Independent Review found the LAPD not culpable for Mitrice's death, deeming it was not. It was not a homicide, and there was no foul play.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then why did they airlift the fucking body? Against the coroner's wishes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the coroner couldn't say how she died, so how can you definitely, definitively say it was a homicide? It was not a homicide.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, because. Yeah. You gave that report.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Well, you don't have the neck bones to test to see if she was choked to death because you left them behind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It's months later.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The body has been out there for months.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, so I'm yelling at you. You're the one that told me the story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they also clear. They were also cleared of any wrongdoing in how to. How it handled discovery of her remains. So they were like. And also. It's fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Sounds great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Rhonda Hampton, who's the woman that Alexander Nazarian, from the Newsweek article kind of goes around with and interviews her. She was a psychologist at one time in an office where Mitrice had interned. So she's really devoted to finding answers. She's just this really awesome woman. She filed a dozen complaints about the various deputies involved in Mitrice's case. Nine of these were registered with the Internal Criminal Investigations Bureau. But they are treating them as. Instead of. Instead of, let's see, they're treating them as service complaints, not matters of potential criminality, which is like. They're just belittling them, you know, or. Yeah, minimizing them. On December 30, 2016, which is recently, results of the criminal investigation into the handling of my trees case concluded that there was insufficient evidence to support criminal prosecution of anyone involved in the handling of the case. And either way, the statute of limitations for concealment or tampering of evidence like the surveillance tapes had passed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The end.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that sucks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's just. Just straight up shit, Tastic. And I mean Pac Man. So that was a theme of the day of sucktastic shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's almost. Well, it's like rich cop, rich police departments getting caught doing what they want.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then covering it and not getting any kind of. Not getting in trouble for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's the thing about opening the door to prosecuting police. Then opens the door. I understand that. Thinking that it opens this door to, like, Anybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But yeah, it's like it goes deeper and deeper, you know, but still it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Has to get solved because there is such. It's like it's the most natural thing in the world. World. The exploitation of power. It's like you give a man a gun and say you have the legal right to use this on whoever you want to. Your discretion is so much power for one person to have. Man or woman or whoever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're just people. They're people like you and me that just are now police. They're my neighbor. They're like any old dude. They're your fucking ex, boyfriend or girlfriend. They're not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they're also people who are being traumatized by what they see in the streets every day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or like, what's it called when you just stop caring about it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Apathy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. But there's like, real things going on. Did you ever watch Southland? It was such a good show. No, it was such a good show. My good friend Sean Hadassey was one of the stars and he was the best. But there was a character on it that used to take a ton of. Of pills because he had like an on the job injury, but he didn't want. He couldn't go out on disability. So he was just in tons of pain all the time. And then just taking tons and tons of like, painkillers. And it just is like. It was just the most fascinating. Like, there's a why behind all of this. It needs to get analyzed and it needs to get fixed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's like part of it is that where it's just like, you're going out there, you're in pain. You deal with the worst society has to offer every single day as your job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you have to make split second decisions on what's gonna happen to who and why.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you have to stand behind those or else you're gonna look weak and your whole department's gonna look weak.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And you can't. Yeah. It's just. It's rough. I do have a good piece of news. If we could actually finish this online. Like an uptick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is kind of interesting because again, on the Laist, I saw an article this morning that the LAPD is revising their use of force policy with an eye toward de escalation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God, I love that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you fucking believe that shit?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's. That's the word that needs to be in place constantly. De Escalation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

De escalation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it said on Tuesday The Los Angeles Police Commission approved a revised. I'm trying to read this article and someone's calling me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who is it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I almost picked it up. I have to text somebody now? Now I have to wait till they stop calling me so I can go back to my thing. Who calls anybody? I mean. Okay, okay, okay, we'll come back in here on Tuesday. The Los Angeles Police Commission.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't cut that, Stephen. Don't you dare. That's real.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was bragging about getting calls. On Tuesday, the Los Angeles Police Commission approved a revised use of force policy that favors deescalation over use of deadly force. The new policy requires officers to try and de escalate situations using non lethal force whenever possible before firing them their guns. That's a huge step somewhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It always blows my mind when. Yeah, it always blows my mind when someone, a cop shoots to kill someone. When you could have just shot them in the shoulder or in the knee or anywhere. You don't have to shoot them in the head. Like on Los Feliz Boulevard near where we live. Like not a few months ago, some guy, I don't know what he was doing, but cops shot him right in the fucking head.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's like, if you think thought he was burglarizing someone, he definitely didn't have a weapon. Just shoot him in the fucking knee, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, There just needs to be more tools and more options. I think it's becoming such a, like all or nothing. I mean, who knows? I don't know. I'm just saying from what I read and these reports and the fact that these videos that go up where it's like the cop that just there was a jaywalker. Did you see that? No. Yeah, it's just another one. It's a video that during all the other horrible things that are happening, people are going, can we please retweet this and make this a story too? Because it's a guy that's jaywalking. The cop comes and just fucking cold cocks him and gets him on the ground and just starts beating the shit out of him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's jaywalking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's that stuff where it's just like, that stuff has to stop.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's that one guy who is a fucking piece of shit. You know, it's not like that, unfortunately. He represents the entirety of his, you know, of. Tired of his job, but it's probably this. And maybe his partner's like, jesus, I've been warning them that this guy's insane or whatever. I mean, yeah, it's Just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's awful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we're back. Do you have updates on this story?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I do. So, I mean, I've just followed this one. I always. Every couple months I'll look it up on Reddit to see if there's anything new going on. In 2019, facing pressure from Dr. Rhonda Hampton and the Fan family, then LA County Sheriff Alex Villanueva ordered a new review of Mitrice's case. Villanueva told ABC Eyewitness News that the case was reviewed from top to bottom by a team of LASD detectives. Their findings were that the death remains unresolved. So those aren't really findings. Without new information, they still don't know the actual cause of death. They have since added a department wide policy that ensures arrestees are told they can voluntarily remain at the jail. I just think of her being released in such a state, in such a place with no resources, and that just breaks my fucking heart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's horrible. It's just like you're left to yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Mitrice's mother, Latice Richardson, wrote a book called A Mother's Journey From Despair to Desire about Mitrice and her own struggles with mental health. She says this was cathartic. Mitrice's father, Michael Richardson, told abc, people say, hey, you gotta move, move on. You never move on, but you carry on. There's no statute of limitations on murder. And all of those who loved Mitrice Richardson hope someone will come forward to finally solve the mystery of her death. And her family settled a wrongful death lawsuit against the county of Los Angeles and the Los Angeles county sheriff's department in September 2011. As part of the settlement, the county and the LASD denied any wrongdoing or liability. There's still $25,000 in reward money for information on Mitrice's case being offered by the cities of Malibu and Calabasas. Any tips can be submitted through lacrimestoppers.org and our friends over at Pushkin produced a really incredible podcast called Lost Hills, a podcast that investigates the dark side of Malibu. Which you wouldn't think there is any.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But turns out, of course there is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a lot. Yeah. Season four covers my Treece Richardson and is hosted by journalist Dana. Good year. So I highly recommend Lost Hills.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's a great podcast. Okay, so we're going to wrap this episode up. So here's the wrap up originally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here you go. Can I. I'll tell you a thing that's funny. So Vince sent me this article today that this, this wife this ex wife of her. Her husband's dying of cancer. That's not funny. And he's like a couple days away from dying. He's kind of out of it. And she wanted him to die with a happy thought in his head. So she told him that Trump had been impeached. I almost started crying when I heard that, because isn't that sweet? And he believed it. And he was like, okay, I'm so glad to hear that. And then he died. And you were like, it's the sweetest thing. It's so touching, but also so awful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. It's where we're at. Hey, man, it is where we're at.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Making the best of it by talking about murder. We're doing it. Happy birthday, Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Happy birthday, Stephen. Please do something about police corruption as soon as you can in your 30s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen, would you please? You have one job to stop police corruption.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we please. Okay, we're back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this episode was originally titled, as we discussed, pre milked cereal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If we were naming it today, would we call it Happy Birthday, Steven? Probably not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, not. Not today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not today's money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not today, Steven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not today's money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But not with my kids. Not in my backyard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But maybe we would call it the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tiniest Wishbone, which was me referencing Passover Seder with Guy Branum. Love it. And breaking a little wishbone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where do you think the Matt guy is now who lost to you? You think he's okay? You think he's still suffering?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think it's Matt Bomer, star of stage and screen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You think he saw the success of this podcast just blow up? And he's like, oh, man, my podcast would have been if I had gotten the Tiniest Wishbone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, she wished for a podcast and it came true. So did I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or we could call it you'll always get by kid, which I said, that's right. Trying to think about what Jim would have said, what home Jim would have said back in the day to little Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What he said back in the day was, don't solve food. Salt food before you e. So my dad to be like, I'm seven. He's screaming, never seven years old. And he's like, you know, the CEOs do this and that. Or like, never turn your back on the sea, where it's just like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's like, I don't have a lot of lessons to teach you, but I'm going to teach them all at seven. So you'll remember them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you'll just remember how to behave when you're at those big business dinners.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And now do you salt your food out of just fucking spite?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Think of it every fucking time. Because sometimes, you know, when you get scrambled eggs, you're like, I know for a fact these need salt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, they need salt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How they make them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And maybe french fries are like, you're safe with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But if it's gonna be people, it's almost like my dad was saying, hey, there's ways people can judge you. Which you would never guess, right? And that's what it's like, oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Paranoia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm that person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or I'm like, judging.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, just for salting my food.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or it's like, that's not a great lesson.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's also, I have a P.O. box, and it's very exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's because you said you don't have a safety device deposit box, and I didn't either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But you do have a P.O.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Box. I have a P.O. box. Which feels pretty fucking fancy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it always has.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. All right, well, thanks for listening to this episode of Rewind. We're gonna let us in 2017 and Elvis, say goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who better?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks for listening, you guys. You're fucking gorgeous people with beautiful souls and hearts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And stay sexy and don't get merciful murdered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye Bye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, Elvis. Elvis, do you cut this part where we are just talking and he doesn't come sometimes? Elvis, you want a cookie? Oh, come on, Elvis, you want a cookie? Oh, he's just a dick about it now. He walked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He waited till he got to the mic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis, you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There it is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Want a cookie? Good boy. Mimi. Go to sleep. Stay sleeping. The hit TV drama High Potential is back. Season two stars Kaitlyn Olson as Morgan, a crime solving single mom with an IQ of 160. Every week, Morgan uses her unconventional style and exceptional mind to crack LAPD's most perplexing cases. This show is the perfect blend of humor and mystery. Watch as Morgan breaks the mold without breaking the breaking a sweat. New episodes of High potential Tuesdays at 10, 9 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu. Goodbye. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is 15amonth. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it's not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just weather. It is an intro dream. Give it a [e-mail].

[Georgia Hardstark]

Switch upfront.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Payment of 45 for 3 month plan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Seamanmobile.com Ford was built on the belief.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of. You do. So ask yourself, can you or can't you? Can you load up a Ford F150 and build your dream with sweat, wet and steel? Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang? Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends and adventure begins?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whether you think you can or think.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can't, you're right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ready, Set.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Forward.