Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 67: Live At The Egyptian Room

Summary

My Favorite Murder: Rewind with Karen & Georgia – Episode 67 "Live at the Egyptian Room" (October 22, 2025)

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Rewind with Karen & Georgia takes listeners back to the iconic "Live at the Egyptian Room" show, first released on May 4, 2017, from Indianapolis. Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark, joined by producer Molly and regular guest Steven, revisit one of their most memorable live events, offering behind-the-scenes anecdotes, reflections on how their live shows and research process have evolved, and full recaps of their two headline cases: the notorious serial killer Belle Gunness and the chilling story of Herb Baumeister. The episode concludes with a dark and unusual hometown murder from the audience—featuring crime, family secrets, and a grave sense of humor.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflections on the Egyptian Room Live Show

• Warm Welcome to Indianapolis
  The hosts reminisce about being anxious that their jokes about the city might've put off listeners, but instead found the Indianapolis crowd warm and energetic.
  • "You guys just charmed the shit out of me today." – Steven [12:07]
• Audience Gifting Ritual
  Multiple gifts were described, from cat mugs and earrings (from local store Silver in the City) to an SSGDM-engraved guitar pick, prompting genuine emotion on stage.
  • "When we see a fucking present, we both lose... and then we start crying." – Steven [05:58]
• Pre-show Chaos
  Karen and Georgia unpack (and poke fun at) their last-minute, often chaotic preparations and research habits.
  • "We're trying to do our book report the night before every single time." – Karen [08:41]
• Venue Stories
  The Egyptian Room's odd chairs, static electricity, and the famous "Supremacy Soup" store were favorite running gags.
  • "Is that how you make money around here? Is fucking up my hair real good?" – Karen [10:17]
  • "It's called Supremacy!" – Steven [12:18]

2. True Crime Stories

A. Karen’s Case: Belle Gunness, Mistress of Murder Farm [28:07–53:13]

• Background:
  Belle Gunness, a Norwegian immigrant, committed a series of murders in the late 1800s and early 1900s, including multiple husbands and suitors, by poisoning, arson, and insurance fraud.
• Signature Details:
  • Burned properties for profit; suspicious deaths always when insurance covered them.
  • Used personal ads to lure suitors, insisting "Triflers need not apply."
  • Killed at least two biological children and multiple husbands.
  • Disappeared after staging her own death in a house fire, leaving behind a decapitated woman's body and her dentures to "identify" herself.
• Notable Reactions:
  • "God, she loved to kill people and burn things down. Is that a local thing or was that just her taste?" – Karen [28:34]
  • "Triflers need not apply is our next shirt." – Karen [43:39]
• Legacy & Updates:
  Many bodies unearthed on her Indiana farm, but authorities never found Gunness. In 1931, a woman suspected of being her died before she could be conclusively identified.
  • "She got away with it. She got away with it." – Karen [53:09]
  • In 2018, Harold Schechter's book "Hell's Princess" brought renewed attention and became a definitive account. [53:43]

B. Georgia’s Case: Herb Baumeister, The Fox Hollow Farms Killer [56:39–88:00]

• Background:
  Indiana businessman Herb Baumeister led a double life as a prolific serial killer in the 1980s-90s, luring gay men to his estate and murdering them. He was connected to the "I-70 Strangler" cases.
• Signature Details:
  • Owned Save-A-Lot thrift stores and lived in a mansion with an indoor pool (and bizarre mannequin collections) in Westfield, Indiana.
  • Victims were mostly gay men from local bars; police long disregarded the cases due to homophobic attitudes.
  • Key witness Tony went undercover, attempting to entrap "Brian Smart" (Baumeister's alias), and survived a near-strangulation.
  • Discovery: Baumeister’s wife, upon learning the truth, granted police access to Fox Hollow Farms in his absence, leading to discovery of at least 11—possibly up to 25—victims’ remains.
  • Baumeister fled to Canada and died by suicide before trial.
• Memorable Commentary:
  • "I never got a creepy or eerie feeling about the house until I was older and started noticing odd things. Such as the secret room behind my friend's bathroom mirror." – Hometown Email [84:25]
  • "He gets to just kill himself and never have to deal with any of it. Never talks about it." – Steven [87:24]
• Recent Updates:
  As of 2024, advanced DNA analysis continues to identify victims. A four-part Hulu documentary, "The Fox Hollow Murders: Playground of a Serial Killer," explores a possible accomplice and ongoing identifications.
  • "There are at least 25 victims suspected to have been buried at Fox Hollow." – Producer Molly [89:22]

3. Hometown Murder – Taylor & Rebecca’s Story [92:24–97:32]

• Summary:
  Taylor shares a chilling family murder involving a baby girl (her "cousin" Sherry Lynn), whose naval serviceman father murdered her in Hawaii, disposed of the body in Pearl Harbor, and later returned home after serving a prison term. Taylor recounts (with dark comic relief) the family’s afterward—she was dressed in her murdered cousin’s hand-me-downs, leading to eerily similar childhood photos.
• Memorable Lines:
  • "There's a set of pictures where you can't really tell who's who, 'cause we're in the same clothes. It's like a V.C. Andrews novel. What the fuck?" – Karen [97:10]
  • "My family's pretty messed up." – Taylor [97:32]

4. Show Evolution: From DIY to Professional

• The hosts reflect on how their live show preparation has grown—from anxiety, last-minute research, and self-done makeup to having a support team and understanding the process.
  • "Our pre-show, live show prep is so much better now because people did help us do things." – Producer Molly [22:27]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------| | 05:58 | "When we see a fucking present, we both lose... and then we start crying." | Steven | | 08:41 | "We're trying to do our book report the night before every single time." | Karen | | 12:07 | "You guys just charmed the shit out of me today." | Steven | | 28:34 | "God, she loved to kill people and burn things down. Is that a local thing or was that just her taste?" | Karen | | 43:39 | "Triflers need not apply is our next shirt." | Karen | | 53:09 | "She got away with it. She got away with it." | Karen | | 67:41 | "You should see how someone looks when you're doing it to them. Their lips change colors. And that's how you can tell it's working. And you're like, cool, let's make out. Like, who the fuck would." | Steven | | 89:22 | "There are at least 25 victims suspected to have been buried at Fox Hollow." | Producer Molly | | 97:10 | "There's a set of pictures where you can't really tell who's who, 'cause we're in the same clothes. It's like a V.C. Andrews novel. What the fuck?" | Karen | | 87:24 | "He gets to just kill himself and never have to deal with any of it. Never talks about it." | Steven |

---

Recommended Timestamps

• Live show opening banter & pre-show chaos: 02:28–14:00
• Gifts and local culture: 05:17–14:57
• Research process confessions: 08:08–10:00
• Karen's recap: Belle Gunness story: 28:07–53:13
• Georgia's recap: Herb Baumeister story: 56:39–88:00
• Recent updates for both cases: 53:37–54:27; 89:22–90:33
• Audience hometown murder with Taylor and Rebecca: 92:24–97:32

---

Unique “MFM” Recap Touches

• The hosts regularly riff, giggle, and roast each other and themselves, making light of their own research tactics and the bizarre realities of investigating historic murders.
• They maintain a balance of comedy and reverence for victims—mocking murderers and systems that allowed them to operate, while keeping listeners engaged and informed.
• The show’s storied relationship with its audience is celebrated through gift discussions and the encouragement of sharing hometown murders, even the most disturbing ones.

---

Episode Title Discussion

• The original episode was titled "Live at the Egyptian Room."
• Alternate modern titles were jokingly considered, including “I Use Georgia” (for Steven’s font confession), “Too Many Nouns” (about suspiciously convoluted excuses from Belle Gunness), and “Triflers Need Not Apply.”

---

Final Thoughts

This "rewind" episode is an entertaining, rich blend of true crime storytelling, host chemistry, and behind-the-scenes podcasting culture. Karen and Georgia, with longtime collaborator Steven and Producer Molly, offer both newcomers and longtime fans a masterclass in navigating horror, humor, and humanity—all in front of a live, deeply invested audience. The intricate details of both headline cases, updates on recent forensic developments, and the inclusion of unforgettable hometown murder stories solidify it as a standout in the MFM catalog.

Stay sexy. Don't get murdered.

---

End of summary.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sweater weather is nearly upon us. But while you're wrapping your top half in cozy cardigans, don't forget your feet.

[Producer Molly]

Bombas has you covered with socks, slides and slippers that will keep you warm all season long.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bombas makes everything with absurdly comfortable materials like merino wool to keep you warm or cool Supima cotton that's soft and strong and classic rag wool for that cozy fall vibe.

[Producer Molly]

They've also got Sherpa lined Sunday slippers for staying in and the versatile Friday slides for for when you're on the go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And if you're not 100% happy with your purchase, their happiness guarantee means that they'll make it right. There's no risk.

[Steven]

All reward the best part.

[Producer Molly]

For every item you buy, Bombas donates one to someone experiencing homelessness. So far, they've donated over 150 million items. So you know I'm a shoeless household, right? So my friend came over the other day, she took her shoes off, didn't have any socks. So I gave her these like slippy, grippy socks. Oh yes.

[Steven]

That I got from Bombas.

[Producer Molly]

She stole them. She took them home with her.

[Steven]

She's like, I freaking love these.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. She's like, I'm not giving these back.

[Steven]

Right? That's how good they are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're so good. Head over to bombas.com mfm and use code mfm for 20% off your first purchase.

[Producer Molly]

That's B O M B-A-S.com mfm code mfm at checkout.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. Starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clark, the new Hulu Original series, Murdoch Death in the Family dives into secrets, deception, murder and the fall of a powerful Southern dynasty.

[Producer Molly]

Inspired by shocking actual events and drawing from reports by Mandy Matney in her hit podcast, this series brings the drama to the screen like never before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Watch the Hulu Original Series Murdoch Death.

[Producer Molly]

In the Family now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

[Producer Molly]

Facing a beauty emergency? Need a last minute gift?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, don't panic. Sephora is now available for delivery on Uber Eats.

[Producer Molly]

You can now get all your beauty essentials delivered in as little as 25 minutes for the same price as in store.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plus, treat yourself to $10 off when you spend 50 doll more on your first Sephora order on the Uber Eats app.

[Producer Molly]

Order Sephora on Uber Eats today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Offer ends October 30th. One order per customer. Additional terms apply. Seat for availability. Delivery fees may apply Goodbye.

[Audience Member / Guest]

My favor.

[Producer Molly]

Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Every Wednesday we recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates and insights.

[Producer Molly]

Today we're recapping episode 67, which we named Live at the Egyptian Room. And that was from our Indianapolis live show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode came out May 4, 2017.

[Producer Molly]

Let's listen to the intro of episode 67.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Hi. What? Hi, Indianapolis. Hi. You're here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You came.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Like you said you would. You would and you did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You told us you were coming.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Hi.

[Steven]

Wow, this is so Indianapolis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys are right up on this stage, aren't you?

[Steven]

Oh, shit. Huh.

[Audience Member / Guest]

A little bit threatening, isn't it? This is tight.

[Steven]

We're kind of here because I have a big mouth and Georgia has some.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stuff to say to you guys.

[Steven]

I didn't. I think I was, like, being complimentary when I said what I said. But fuck, man, we made up for it, I think, by being here. I mean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, here's the thing. We. For us, we're having a private conversation.

[Producer Molly]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're just very slowly catching on to the fact that you guys listen to it after we record it.

[Steven]

Yeah. It's not just like we're trying to make Steven laugh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven]

We're trying to make each other laugh. And then. Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then we're trying to offend the country.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Uh huh.

[Steven]

Definitely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's very easy to do.

[Steven]

It turns out. Who knew?

[Karen Kilgariff]

All you have to do is mispronounce some cities and tell some people their dicks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, suddenly you're there.

[Steven]

There you are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hello. You're there to make up for it with entertainment. Look at this gorgeous room. This is fucking nuts, you guys.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much.

[Steven]

When we were in Portland, we were in an old, like, high school and it totally felt like we were like the principals giving everyone a lecture about bullying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

It was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This feels like we're the ushers at a very fancy movie theater.

[Producer Molly]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where people are very excited to look at the screen. I could kick someone in the forehead right now. I'm sorry. That. That's the first thing I really want to do. Just a quick.

[Steven]

That'd be funny, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It would kind of be funny.

[Steven]

Hey, let's talk about presents, because that's a positive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, you guys. Okay, here's the thing. And this is what's beautiful about having fans like you guys is you'll tweet us or social media somehow and say, if we have a present, how do we get it to you? And we don't answer you because we can't tell you secrets like that. But it doesn't matter because you get them to us anyway.

[Steven]

Figure it out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's very hard. Day's night. People getting onto some kind of thing and putting a towel over it and sneaking back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't.

[Steven]

I'm not sure how you did it. We're adults and we can buy our own shit. But when we see a fucking present, we both lose.

[Audience Member / Guest]

What is it? What is it?

[Steven]

And then we pull out the card and we start crying. And then we sing. And then we put the earrings in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. We're wearing your earrings. Silver in the City.

[Steven]

Oh, thank you. I hate earrings. And I put these in because they're so adorable and cats and I love them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Seems like a lot of people work at Silver in the City. Is that like your Walmart out here?

[Steven]

So many ceilings. Take them off. And then we got. And then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gorgeous. Thank you.

[Steven]

Look at this cat mug. These are from. But I don't really.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Then it's this part. This is lame.

[Steven]

The Weatherholt cousins gave me this fucking Siamese mug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Weatherholt girls came together. Assuming I'm Assuming they're girls.

[Steven]

They used to hate each other, and then they bonded over murder and they got me a Siamese mug.

[Producer Molly]

That's my new.

[Steven]

That's totally my new stage mug. Until I leave it at home like this trip for sure. And then they gave you. Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They gave me. So this is pretty funny. Georgia opens that. Well, I was kind of opening everything. Let's be honest. I'm a bit domineering. And so I was pulling shit out, and then just. I would decide if it was for her or not. So we're like, yeah, undeniably, this is Georgia's cat travel mug. And then the next thing came up and we'd read the card that said.

[Steven]

Enjoy coffee and music.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And music.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so I opened this little box, and it's a keychain holder. Like a key holder. And I love the keychain. Thanks a lot. But then we're like thinking me and George and Vince are kind of standing there and we're just like, there's gotta be more to it. And there fucking was. You unsnap. It was like a little triangle shaped leather thing. You unsnap it. And inside was a beautiful silver guitar pick that had SSDGM engraved on it. I started crying.

[Steven]

It's true. We had to redo our makeup.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We had to bring the whole team from Mac back in.

[Steven]

That makes me think. Because I want to mention like how many messages and emails we get whenever we're touring of like really sweet girls being like, I'm a makeup artist or I'm a hairdresser and I would love to do your makeup and hair for the.

[Producer Molly]

You know.

[Steven]

And it's like such a sweet offer and I fucking love getting my hair and makeup done.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We want it so bad.

[Steven]

But you don't understand until like 5:59. Is that a time?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Steven]

We're getting. We're freaking the fuck out and getting ready and finishing our murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Typing. There's a lot of typing at 5:59.

[Steven]

This isn't. Whenever we get asked, like how much. So how much research goes into how much time do you spend on each one? And it's like, no, we're not like that. We didn't finish college. We're terrible at homework.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We care and we love research. We love it and we care about it.

[Steven]

We do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also we save it till the very end. We save it. We push it right into our blowout time and right into our. We could have had such gorgeous eyeshadows, glowing locks. I mean we would have been two. We would have been Kendall and the other one Kardashian. But no, we're fucking trying to do our book report the night before every single time it's like that.

[Steven]

Uh huh. So thank you for the offers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we.

[Steven]

It's not gonna.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, look, we're fucking. We're living high on the hog. Professionals offers and we're just scraping through like feral children. I would like to point this out so as you know, we talk about our fancy outfits that we like to get for the tour. We like to really dress it up for you as much as possible. This dress I got last night, again last minute. And I saw it and I was like, magic. It's all coming together for me. It's one of those dresses that has a built in slip.

[Steven]

Oh yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which then turns into a puzzle when you're putting it on. Ladies, back me up. This is. I can't believe I made it into this dress is what I'm saying. There was like seven different ways you could do it. And it's also sewn on because at one point I was gonna rip the fucking thing out. I was just like, get rid of the slip there. And I don't give a shit.

[Steven]

Do you ever do the thing when you try to put a dress. I like fucking like, I hate the extra step of putting a dress on basically under a dress. So I'll do like a slip. So I'll do the thing where, like, they're together and I'll try to put.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Them on at once.

[Steven]

And it takes four times as long to get it on because you're just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, how am I gonna do this?

[Steven]

Beat the system. A lot of that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, you guys seem to have a lot of static electricity here. Quite a bit. Is that one of the things. Is that one of your outputs, whatever you call it. Is that how you make money around here? Is fucking up my hair real good.

[Steven]

Oh, my God. Does the city run on it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

My dress is permanently stuck. It's like my dress is scared and is grabbing my leg. Usually I like a little more flow around this area. Looks like I just came out of a pond.

[Steven]

I meant to put heels on before we came out. Forgot anyway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are those your show slippers?

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're very cute.

[Steven]

Yeah, they are. Now I'm just so. Because one time you were like, those shoes you have on look like those socks you put on under shoes on stage. She said that. And now I'm like, terrified that that's what these always look like. But there's some shit going on with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think I meant it as a compliment. Oh, who knows? The way when things come out of.

[Steven]

You, I'm fine with.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, look, who am I to say anything? I'm wearing high heeled clogs right now. I'm wearing boot clogs with what now Turn out now that the lights are on me to be a navy.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Oh, shit. What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It did not look like that in the store.

[Steven]

I'm trying to be fancy.

[Audience Member / Guest]

They looked cool. They won't let me be fancy.

[Steven]

It looks like you did it on purpose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have heels that are like that high. And every single time when I go to leave my hotel room, I'm like, getting ready. Of course. Rushed little typing over here. Blow drying over here. Run, run, run. And then I look and there's like shoe choices and I'm like, fuck you. I'm putting you honestly. I do it every time.

[Steven]

No, I'm sure this was a subconscious thing that I did when I was like, no vintage heels. Vintage black heels can go fuck themselves. Yeah, these are gross. Oh, Indianapolis. You guys just charmed the shit out of me today. When near my hotel, there's a soup store. Can I tell you this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

A soup store?

[Steven]

Yeah. And you know I love stupid. Not stupid, but puns in general. It's called sue premacy.

[Audience Member / Guest]

What?

[Steven]

I cannot stop laughing about that. I made Vince write it down backstage and I just looked at it and just started Cracking up Supremacy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Seems like it could be slightly problematic.

[Steven]

In this day and age. Yeah. I mean, it went through my head.

[Karen Kilgariff]

White bean supremacy. Stop it. Stop it.

[Steven]

Well, when I was a kid, my first record store, I didn't realize till I was grown up and I went, oh, that's not good. Was called Vinyl Solution.

[Audience Member / Guest]

No, I didn't.

[Steven]

My 14 year old brain wasn't like, they don't want you here, Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The little Jewish girls walking in. I like punk rock.

[Steven]

Yeah. They're like, we don't like you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Steven]

That's pretty fucking clever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How could you not like me?

[Audience Member / Guest]

I have little pigtails. I'm baby Georgia.

[Steven]

Should we sit down?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, let's sit down. This is the part where it gets really official.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ooh, this is a nice chair.

[Steven]

Who she? It's like a conference chair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is a high class. You should see some of the chairs that we sit in on these shows. I swear to God, it's like a guy came up real quick right before the show and was just like, da, da, da, da, da, da. But this is like Tony Robbins ordered these a couple years ago and left him behind. Thank you.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Oh, my God.

[Steven]

Am I sitting on Tony Robbins butt? That is so amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's someone else that loves to say fuck.

[Steven]

Does he?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He really does.

[Steven]

Yeah. He screams it in people's faces.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he's all about it. He thinks it's very freeing.

[Producer Molly]

Travel mug with travel mug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What does it taste like?

[Steven]

Water. I've had too much caffeine at this point in my life. Right today, now. Sugar free Red Bull, everyone. That's right. Okay, okay. But Supremacy, Can I tell you about my pizza place in my neighborhood when I was a kid? Maybe that's what started it all. It's called Sergeant Pepperoni's. Jesus Christ. I just appreciate it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You've loved it since you were a child.

[Steven]

Mm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, everything in my town was just like, grocery store. Our grocery store is called Food City. Like, you didn't. You didn't have to have an imagination of any kind. You were just like, yep, it's a bunch of food in there. We're gonna get some for ourselves. We'll come back later and get more. I fucking love that Food City.

[Steven]

Can we tell them about our murder? Like my murder in our snafu? It's Stephen's fault.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's totally fault. Shout out to Steven.

[Steven]

I mean, I could make this about. It's totally his fault.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So we. Because we, as you know, we don't tell each other the stories, the crimes that we're going to talk about right now. We don't tell them beforehand.

[Steven]

It's not faked.

[Producer Molly]

You guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Genuinely a surprise. We're not acting.

[Steven]

Real surprise.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So last night I didn't check in or even think about telling Steven who. So Stephen's the middleman. We both tell Steven who we're doing, and then if there is any overlap, he lets the second person know, basically.

[Steven]

Which there hasn't been thus far.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Never has been.

[Steven]

Never like, am I cool doing so and so? And he's like, you're good.

[Producer Molly]

Always.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, last night, I think I checked in with Stephen around 1:30am Cause I was like, well, here's the thing, here's my person. And also, can you find me pictures? And I was less checking and more bossing, of course. And he was like, ooh, we've got some overlap. And I was like, what the. So I'd already worked on one. I'd already worked on it. I had, actually. And this is why I don't work on things. The seventh grader in me says, this is why I don't try.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

So now you know my guy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then I know your guy.

[Steven]

It's the best one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then I had to put my own together real fast. And this is a true story. When I got to my hotel room, finally, I sat down, I was like, okay. I had on the plane with my two businessmen on either side of me. We're all doing our business. Me typing about murder, them stocks, bonds, what are we doing?

[Steven]

Ours is so much better.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They could have both been poets. Who knows?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who knows?

[Steven]

I mean, so are we, kinda.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's very true. So what I did was like, just like. Cause you can never, please never believe that you can actually get the Internet on a plane. That's such a fucking lie.

[Steven]

It's true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Southwest is like WI fi here and wifi there. And I was like, yeah, I doubt it. And so I just cut and pasted like 30 pages from Murderpedia about my person and then I put it in a document. So on the plane, I was just bolding the. The areas that I wanted to talk about. And what a gorgeous document it was, everybody. What an amazing amount of work I can do when I apply myself.

[Steven]

Well, I mean, when you work on your murder, mine is like a fucking mess of, like different sizes of font and different fonts and like blacked out and then redded out. It's just such a mess.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It always, like, Verdana always comes up as a choice. It's like, who's typing in Verdana font. Do you hate your eyes? Oh, it's awful looking. Anyway, go with Times. It's a classic.

[Steven]

So I use Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I always do you every fucking.

[Steven]

It's so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that true, Jordan?

[Steven]

I never admitted that.

[Audience Member / Guest]

That's for you. Indianapolis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, Inside Secrets.

[Steven]

I mean, it's cute. It's fine. It's just like a little.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just go, you know, dude, I would fucking. If there was a Karen and it looked like weird twigs, it'd be my whole document. I wouldn't be like, it's gorgeous, I love it.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Maybe there will be one day someday.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the dream, to get a font. So anyhow, I sit down to do my thing where I'm gonna take my bold things that I worked on hard on the plane and put them on my brand new document. I titled them both the same thing. So when it came up and said there's already a document, that's this. Do you want to replace?

[Audience Member / Guest]

Oh, I said yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so instead of having pages and pages of bolded information, I had two paragraphs that were like, anyway, everybody. I was like, what the fuck? And it was 5:15pm, hadn't showered yet. Emergency situation.

[Steven]

And here we are now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And here we go.

[Steven]

So we're gonna take an hour break and we'll be right back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And if anybody wants to email us some ideas.

[Steven]

No, hold tight.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not true.

[Steven]

Who's first?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It might be me.

[Steven]

You're right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, I think it is.

[Steven]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From just yesterday. Isn't that weird?

[Steven]

Just yesterday.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Today.

[Steven]

Tuesday. It came out today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's today.

[Steven]

It came out today. We recorded on Tuesday and I don't remember any of it. We're already getting like a couple of like put quotes in and I'm like, I don't remember talking about pinching penises. Like, what the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's all a blur.

[Steven]

Yeah, I probably said that. Cause that sounds like something I would say.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. Except for. Yeah, okay, fine. Cherry Hill is in New Jersey. I don't know if you guys caught that part, but I did. One of my murder took place in Cherry Hill, New Jersey. And the entire time I said it was Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania. I must have said it. I'm from California. We don't have states that close. So if you're talking about going to Philadelphia, it's like, well, you must be in Pennsylvania. There's no other way.

[Steven]

I don't. I'm already lost of what I'm saying right now. So your whole murder was in the wrong state?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh huh.

[Steven]

Oh, I didn't Realize that. I thought you just, like, mentioned this other city once.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Fuck, no. I was like, the Cherry Hill Mall in Pennsylvania. I was like. I was acting like that guy that does the Mark Twain show, where I was just like, listen up. Gather round, everybody, and let me tell you about Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania.

[Steven]

Oh, well, how many people are in the state of New Jersey and how many people listen to our podcast? Because we just lost all of those listeners.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, did we lose them or now do they have something to fight about? Which is their favorite fucking thing in the world to do? New Jersey's like, I'm sorry, but I.

[Steven]

Thought you meant people who listen to the podcast. Their favorite thing to do is fight. You meant people in New Jersey. I get it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

New Jersey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Subset. Subset.

[Steven]

Okay. Okay.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Yeah.

[Steven]

They're probably gonna just listen to hear more mistakes and correct us on them. Probably because we make a couple mistakes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen, and you know what happens? Cut to. We're in New Jersey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, you guys know, if anybody knows, it's Indianapolis.

[Audience Member / Guest]

True.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We fuck up, then we show up.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi.

[Steven]

Yeah, that's true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're back. And I have no idea what is the Indianapolis drama. I don't remember that you're apologizing for.

[Producer Molly]

I think I just, like, threw it out there as, like, you know, like a city. You wouldn't go to a random city. But then we went there, and it was fucking coolest.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The best.

[Producer Molly]

And we went back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Steven]

Cause it was so good.

[Producer Molly]

So I think we made it up to them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well. And I think, again, not to brag, but I think we're pretty good at being like, hey, we fucked up, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don'T be mad at us because we're here.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is great.

[Producer Molly]

Yeah. Just like, throwing out the name of a city. It's not like I would use New York or Boston.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Producer Molly]

I'm doing it again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're asking for it. Also, like, I know what this live show was. And then I went on the Internet to look at pictures of the Egyptian room.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the show where the guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was sitting in the front row with his fan and his fur coat. This was it Indianapolis.

[Producer Molly]

He keeps coming up, and we hope he comes to our live shows. What's happening right now?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I kept saying it was St. Louis, but I just had the area wrong. I'm almost positive it was the Egyptian room.

[Producer Molly]

I believe you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Producer Molly]

Anything different now about our pre show, we have. So, like, our pre show, live show prep is so much better now because we have. People did help us do things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

People are helping Us. And that makes all the difference.

[Producer Molly]

Huge. And we kind of like understand the procedure a little bit more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Kind of what we're up against, what we're about to go do, and what we should focus on and what we should not focus on.

[Steven]

Right. Like fake eyelashes. Definitely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. You have to dedicate your time. You must, like, put your foundation garments on in enough time where that's not the last minute panic.

[Producer Molly]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, the idea that we had what seemed to be an endless conversation where it was like Supremacy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The whole.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so problematic and hilarious because it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like basically the clock was just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just up on conversations like this being something people don't freak out about and joke around about. Yes. It was like white bean supremacy, where I'm like, what are we fucking doing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What are we doing?

[Producer Molly]

What are we doing? We're being our sweet, innocent little selves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not knowing that in eight years the Nazis would be at the fucking door.

[Producer Molly]

That's right. Well, I can tell you that Supremacy, the innocent one, is still open and thriving. And they now go buy small batch soups. Buy Supremacy. So they got the fucking memo too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what happened?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet you in that sign, small.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Batch soups is huge.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And buy supremacy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Real small Supremacy.

[Producer Molly]

It's a whisper.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look, we all made mistakes. Just get. Just ask Soup Plantation how they're handling things. Jesus. Oh, do you remember those stage chairs? I don't.

[Producer Molly]

No. I don't remember the stage chairs from a week ago.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For real. It's such a funny blur to be on stage and the things you do remember and focus on and the things you don't.

[Producer Molly]

Absolutely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I think in the Egyptian Room, if it is the place I remember, it kind of looked like a big conference hall, so people were sitting in individual chairs. It wasn't a theater, it was a music venue. And a lot of other.

[Steven]

Okay.

[Producer Molly]

And they put like folding chairs out and. Yeah, that's such a different.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they weren't even folding chairs. They were like straight back banquette chairs kind of things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I started getting that panicky feeling of, they're not gonna like us. They're here for like a Tony Robbins, you know, conference and not us. And the panic began. And that's why that guy meant so much to me. House, right. Stage left.

[Producer Molly]

He was fucking bringing the sass fan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Letting us know, joke by joke, how great we were doing. Where I was just like, oh, this is not only not going badly, this couldn't be better.

[Producer Molly]

Even though the chick next to him's getting sciatica from those chairs. He's fucking having a grand old time and that's all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's suffering in silence. Fine with me.

[Producer Molly]

Appreciate you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we did some amazing stories at this show.

[Producer Molly]

Oh my God. Yeah, we had some choices.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pretty goddamn epic.

[Producer Molly]

So let's just get right into it because I think this is one of your most epic stories. This is Karen covering the story of Belle Gunness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This show is sponsored by Midi Health.

[Producer Molly]

If you've ever left a doctor's office feeling unheard, unseen, or somehow at fault.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You'Re not alone and you deserve better. That's where Midi Health comes in.

[Producer Molly]

MIDI is a women's telehealth clinic built specifically for midlife care.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored and met with a just deal with it attitude.

[Producer Molly]

Many of us have been made to feel ashamed or forgotten. In fact, even today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's time for a change. It's time for Mitty.

[Producer Molly]

MIDI is not just a healthcare provider, it's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world class leaders in women's health.

[Georgia Hardstark]

At midi, real clinicians listen to your symptoms and offer personalized, data driven care not one size fits all advice.

[Producer Molly]

MIDI is backed by world class experts in women's health and focuses on everything from hormone therapy to weight management and lifestyle coaching. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Visit join MIDI.com today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual Visit. That's join MIDI.com MIDI the Care Women Deserve Goodbye. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

[Producer Molly]

Facing a beauty emergency? Need a last minute gift?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, don't panic. Sephora is now available for delivery on Uber Eats.

[Producer Molly]

You can now get all your beauty essentials delivered in as little as 25 minutes for the same price as in store.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plus treat yourself to $10 off when you spend $50 or more on your first Sephora order on the Uber Eats app.

[Producer Molly]

Order Sephora on Uber Eats today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Offer ends October 30th. One order per customer. Additional terms apply. Seat for availability. Delivery fees may apply.

[Producer Molly]

Goodbye Starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clarke Murdoch, Death in the Family is the new Hulu original series that explores the unraveling of a Southern.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dynasty through a deadly boat crash, double homicide and a massive embezzlement scheme.

[Producer Molly]

Inspired by shocking actual events, the dramatized series draws from reporting by Mandy Matney creator of the popular podcast that followed one of the most twisted crime sagas in recent history.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This gripping series brings the drama to life like never before.

[Producer Molly]

It's a story of secrets, deception, and murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Watch the Hulu original series, Death in.

[Producer Molly]

The streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. All right, should we do this?

[Steven]

Let's. Oh, this is my favorite murder.

[Producer Molly]

That's Karen.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Hi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We needed to get a big third cheer going before the reading starts.

[Steven]

Pump you guys up, you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I went. If I couldn't do Georgia's, then I had to go to number two, who I didn't. The only reason I didn't pick her is because she's an oldie. She's like a vintage one.

[Steven]

You like old timey?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I do love an oldie, but I'd done a couple recently, so I thought I was gonna update and try to be more current. Nope. I got slapped back down by fate and here I am.

[Steven]

I swooped in hard on that guy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You had to.

[Steven]

This guy's the worst thing I've ever read about in my fucking life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's pretty fucking awful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Awful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But so is our girl. Belle Gunness. Right, everybody. You know her, right?

[Steven]

Uh huh. Horrible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God, she loved to kill people and burn things down. Is that a local thing or was that just her taste? Cause she really loved to burn. I mean, she was what they call a fire bug. All right. Some of her nicknames were Lady Bluebeard.

[Steven]

Oh, that's gotta be sad. Like, make you feel bad about yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's gonna get you to the tweezers and the magnifying mirror real quick. Why did they call me that? I shave every day. The Laporte Black Widow, Right? Laporte. Oh, the Mistress of Murder Farm.

[Steven]

Oh, that's fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That actually seems like a British procedural that I would watch. Dude. Does that the Mistress of Modiform. Welcome Axe.

[Steven]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or. And Hell's Bell.

[Steven]

That's cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That seems more like a.

[Steven]

It's like a roller derby name.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally is.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, there's a really great female ACDC cover band called Hellsbow. Oh, that's unbelievable.

[Steven]

Kicky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it.

[Steven]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyhow, Belle Sorensen Gunness was born November 11, 1859. She was from Norway. She left there in 1881 at the age of 21 to move to Chicago like her sister did. So they emigrated to America. She became a servant, and she worked as a servant for a couple years. And then she married her first husband, Mads Sorenson, three years later in 1884. Mads. Is it Mads? Does it. The Norwegians have the name M, A D S. Mads.

[Steven]

Mads.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's Mads. That's right.

[Steven]

It's too much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Mads is kind of hilarious name. All right, anyway, the two of them marry, and they open a candy store. And how. How fucked up do you have to be to have an unsuccessful candy store? Because they did it. They sucked at candy. How do you do? How do you do it?

[Steven]

They sold, like. What's a gross flavor of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Only, like, those buttons on paper. It's just, like, buttons. They called their candy store Buttons on Paper.

[Steven]

Just one giant roll of buttons on paper. Kids kept getting smashed by it. Every time they tried to get one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They'Re just cutting weird pieces out randomly. I don't like the store.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So since their candy store fails, it strangely burned down almost a year later after they opened it. Oh, that's burning candy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Smell it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Belle and Mads collected their insurance on that business, and they bought a new home. And then they had two biological children. Myrtle in 1897 and Lucy in 1899.

[Steven]

Those are cute. When is Myrtle gonna come back?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It can't. It's that you will immediately be called a turtle. Grammar school, please think these things through. You have to go through the rhyming of the children's names. Sorry, I didn't mean to attack you.

[Steven]

I'm having a fucking kid.

[Producer Molly]

I don't care.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They also had a foster child named Jenny Olsen. They also had two other biological children that did not survive infancy. And both of them were diagnosed to have had extreme colitis, which has the same symptoms as strychnine poisoning. But they're babies, and this is a family. And so the doctors were like, they have extreme colitis, everybody.

[Steven]

Bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Interestingly, I mean, both of those children's lives were insured.

[Producer Molly]

Shit.

[Steven]

As you do insure your baby all the time. I mean, a tiny baby in 18 fucking whatever the shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That baby was gonna be the most amazing. Like, Stick and Stick and Hoop baby.

[Audience Member / Guest]

The Stick and Hoop baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look at that arm. Ensure that arm. I was gonna call it Stick and Circle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus. Jesus. All right, so then, on July 30, 1900, Mads died. He also had some colitis, like, problems.

[Steven]

Runs in the family.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that weird. Poisoning runs in this family. And interestingly, he died on July 30, which was the only day his two life insurance policies overlapped.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Magical.

[Steven]

Wow, that's Asking for trouble.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Lucky, lucky, lucky. So the Sorensen's family doctor had been treating him for an enlarged heart. And so he. The first doctor was like, this is absolutely strychnine poisoning. And then the family doctor was like, no, no, no, no. Sit down, young lady. He died of heart failure. And so she applies for insurance money the day after the funeral, as you do, and she gets $8,500, which is a little over $200,000 in today's money.

[Steven]

Not for another candy store, probably, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no, no. She learned her candy lesson. So she uses the money to purchase a 42 acre farm in La Porte, Indiana. At the end, it scared the shit out of me.

[Steven]

We were gonna have to come back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, we were about to leave and come back out the second apology tour. Damn. So much harder than it looks. Okay. Laporte, Indiana, at the end of McClung Road. Everybody talks about McClung Road.

[Steven]

I love someone lived there.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Oh, my God, I love McClung room.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she moves in. And then it's reported that soon after, both the boat and carriage houses burned down. So maybe that's just what she did to get used to being living in a place. You know what I mean?

[Steven]

It doesn't feel like me yet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know. I want to warm it up somehow.

[Steven]

I want to literally warm it up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, also, I just wrote here very randomly, reports say that she was 6ft tall and 200 pounds.

[Producer Molly]

No way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think this is a. That's like a Paul Bunyan thing of like. I think she was so horrifying that people are like. And she's Nova, 6ft tall. It turned into one of those things.

[Steven]

Which was tall back then, because everyone was like, no one got higher than five' four.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone was like, my bones, my rickets. She's like, I'm doing great. I'm from Norway, and I'll kill you for no reason.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So as she's getting ready to. She buys the farm in La Porte. She's getting ready to move from Chicago to La Porte. She becomes reacquainted with a recent widower named Peter Gunness, who also is from Norway. She had that kind of, you know, local Norway hookup. And so they get married in la Porte on April 1, 1902. A week after the ceremony, Peter's infant daughter died of uncertain causes while alone in the house with Bell. Oh, yeah. Then In December of 1902, Peter himself met with a quote unquote tragic accident. According to Bell, he was reaching for his slippers Next to the kitchen stove.

[Steven]

Oh, already?

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's too many nouns in this. Like when you have to lie. And we always do. Just kind of keep. Keep the nouns to amends. You don't need slippers in this story at all. He was just near the stove like he always is.

[Steven]

Kitchen doesn't even. Like it's a given that the stove is in the kitchen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Don't specify what we already know.

[Steven]

Yeah. And take notes, you guys, for when you fucking kill your.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. This whole thing's gonna turn on us so fucking hard. But it'll be fun. Until then.

[Steven]

So many presents in total.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's reaching for his slippers next to the kitchen stove when he scalded with brine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Brine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Again. She later declared that, in fact, part of a sausage grinding machine had Fell from a high shelf and hit him on the head.

[Steven]

Whiskey, sausage machines.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is this kitchen like Pee Wee Herman's? Like, what is happening, Belle? Then that anvil came from across the room. Okay, so a year later, Peter's brother Gust.

[Steven]

Is that right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I should have read this over Gust of wind. He came down. He takes Peter's older daughter, Swanhilda.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When's Swanhilda coming back, Everybody.

[Producer Molly]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Steven]

Yeah. When's that one coming back?

[Karen Kilgariff]

When are you gonna hear that yelled across McDonald's play place. Swanhilda.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Steven]

Don'T lick that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Basically, it's always licking. Get away from the brine, Swanhilda. Swanhilda's uncle Peter's brother comes. Gust comes down, gets her and gets her out.

[Steven]

He's like, gusting in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He could.

[Steven]

Okay, Any grabs or. In, Gusta.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Steven]

Come on. Sup, premise? Sorry, sorry. Go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no. Never apologize.

[Steven]

Try not to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she. So she gets out. The uncle's like, something's going on.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Producer Molly]

Oh.

[Steven]

He's like, get the fuck out of here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Get. The one remaining living child of a once flourishing family.

[Steven]

Good for him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So the coroner reviews his case, his death, and announces unequivocally or unequivocally, I'm not sure that he was murdered. And his stepdaughter Jenny. Her stepdaughter Jenny. So I'm sorry. His daughter is overheard at school saying, my mama killed my papa. She's hit him with a meat cleaver. And he died just on the swings, chilling. Fucking juice box.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kids.

[Steven]

Don't lick that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the candy store. So she's brought before the coroner's jury. So the coroner does have an inquest. Cause he's like, this is incredibly suspicious. And when they try to talk to her about it, she denies ever having said anything. And then Belle convinces the coroner that she's absolutely innocent and she didn't do anything. He believes her.

[Steven]

Does he marry her?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He does not marry her. But then I'm thinking, if she really was. If she really was 6ft tall, 200 pounds, she must have been an amazing presence to be able to be like, oh, no, no, I didn't kill him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you imagine this kind of like a giantess just being, like, murdering and then being like, but don't blame me. Goodbye.

[Steven]

Has to duck through the door on the way out. But it's like. But.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone drops. Okay, this is taking too long. So Belle tells neighbors. Soon after she explains, Jenny's gone off to finishing school.

[Steven]

Good luck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Never good.

[Steven]

Finished.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. So Belle runs her farm from 1903 to 1906. And in 1907, she hires a farmhand named Ray Lamphere. I think we do have a picture of Ray Lamphere. He's got a mustache.

[Steven]

Nope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She also had a mustache. You weren't wrong, but that was Belle.

[Steven]

Nope. That's a good one, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the farm we just keep going through. What if there was, like, 90 pictures? They'd be like, and there's me. There's Summer in the. There's Ray Lamphere. He looks chill. He looks like. He looks like 70% of the bartenders in Los Angeles. No, I don't want to come see your improv team. Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh.

[Steven]

Oh, Just the look in his eye is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So let me help you with your farm.

[Audience Member / Guest]

I got this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I need to help you. So that guy. And also, could we just really quick. Could we go back to the picture of Belle herself just to see what everyone's. Why everyone is so in love. There she is.

[Audience Member / Guest]

That's her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Oh, she's pretty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's not.

[Steven]

Am I wrong?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's that?

[Steven]

Is she pretty?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She pretty?

[Audience Member / Guest]

Is she. Is she pretty? She pretty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She pretty?

[Audience Member / Guest]

Even I'm like, oh, maybe she didn't do it. You know what, you guys? I think she's innocent. I feel like.

[Steven]

Look at her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look at she. I mean, she does have a hat face, and that's. I can't say the same thing.

[Steven]

I mean, the ruffles.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyhow, so Ray Lamphere shows up with. With the fire in his eyes and the insane mustache, and he is immediately in love with her. So he'll do anything she asks. All right, so that's what's happening, the feel around the farm. And at the same time, Belle Gunness puts an advertisement in the newspaper, in all the Chicago daily papers and in, I guess, some of the Norwegian papers. And this is the. It's basically kind of like a personal ad. And hers reads personal. Comely widow who owns a large farm in one of the finest districts in La Porte County, Indiana, desires to make the acquaintance of a gentleman equally well provided with view of joining fortunes. No replies by letter considered unless sender is willing to follow answer with personal visit. Triflers need not apply. Hey, I don't want no scrubs. Da da da. Tore it did it in a bachender side of the tits.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Boo.

[Steven]

His best friend's farm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Trying to burn down a horse.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Burn down a horse.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She tried to burn that horse. Triflers need not Apply is our next shirt.

[Steven]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Steven, Steven, Steven, get on that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Steven, do it now.

[Steven]

I mean, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, she's not wrong.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She murders children. Yes. She murders children and adults.

[Steven]

Yes. But.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also, Triflers need not apply.

[Steven]

No, they needn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They simply needn't.

[Steven]

They needn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, okay. So now there's a stream of, like, middle aged, mostly Norwegian male suitors that are coming to the farm, bring in their. A lot of them are just clearing out their bank accounts, they're selling their houses, they're cashing it all in and bringing their money to this woman that oftentimes she would be exchanging letters with them and they were like kind of, you know, loveish letters.

[Steven]

My dearest mother.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's it exactly.

[Steven]

I don't know how to write. I'm not a poet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Ray Lamphere is getting really jealous because these men are showing up and they're not leaving in the bad way. So she fires him on February 3, 1908. And shortly after, she presents herself at the Laporte courthouse and declares that Ray Lamphere was not in his right mind and was a menace to the public. And. And she actually ends up convincing local authorities to hold a sanity hearing against him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ouch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's pronounced sane and released.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hugh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gunness is back a few days later to complain to the sheriff that Lamphere had visited her farm and argued with her and that she contended he posed a threat to her family. He posed a threat to her family. She's killed everyone in her family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everybody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she has Lamphere arrested for trespassing. Then she tells a lawyer in Laporte that she fears for her life and the lives of her children. She said that Ray Lamphere threatened to kill her and burn her house down. Oh, three fingers pointing back at her. Plastic. So she makes out a will in case he goes through with it. And then she leaves her entire estate to her children and leaves. And then she pays off her mortgage. And she doesn't go to the police to tell them about Lamphere's behavior. She's just telling this lawyer. And then the new she hires a guy named Joe Maxson to replace Lamphere in February. And. And in the early hours of April 28, 1908, he wakes to the smell of smoke in his room. And he's on the second floor of the house and he opens the door, his bedroom door, to a sheet of flames. He's screaming Belle's name, the children's names. He doesn't hear anything. So he runs out the door in his underwear. He leaps from a second story window. He barely survives the fire. He races to town to get help. But by the time they come, the hook and ladder, old fashioned fire truck comes back. The whole farmhouse is gutted in a heap of smoking ruins. And that's that picture of all the people standing around. That's what's left. And in there they find the bodies.

[Steven]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, there's four bodies, three children's bodies. The children are all in their beds. And then one of the. Of a grown woman, but she doesn't have a head. Huh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they're like, oh, this is terrible. The house burned down and the gunnises all died inside of it. Well, the doctors measure the remains and making allowances for the missing neck and head. Who wrote that? Obviously they're not gonna measure an invisible neck and head. So they say that the corpse is a woman who stood 5 foot 3 and weighed no more than 150 pounds. Their neighbors said that Belle was probably 5, 9, but she did weigh like, you know, 180, 200 pounds, whatever. So they actually had a dressmaker that was in Chicago that they contacted who had her exact measurements, brought them back. And this body was not Belgannas in the fire.

[Steven]

That's police work, man. Yeah, Shit, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the turn of the century police work. Let's get positive. But they do find Belle's dentures in the ashes. And so because of that, the police can't. They're like, well, this then is her. Like they do everything else. Everything else is like, meh, you know, I mean, we heard she was 5, 8, but it's the teeth that really Prove it.

[Steven]

The teeth that didn't stay in her mouth most of the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The teeth that mostly were in a.

[Steven]

Glass removed from your face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were in a glass at the top of where her neck was. Inappropriate. All right, now, one of her earliest victims. So I will read you this list of people who did show up at this farm thinking that they were in love with a woman and they're going to. To live the rest of their life on a beautiful farm with her and who never left. One of them had a brother who, when his brother never came back and he never heard from him again, he showed up at the farm, and Belle was like, oh, he never came here. And he. The whole time was like, this woman's dirty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't like it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's something about it. So he went after this fire. He went to the sheriff and was like, you have got to investigate this. This woman's insane. So Sheriff Smutzer was the man's name. Yeah, the Smutzer. He takes a dozen men back to the farm. They begin to dig, and on May 3, 1908, they unearthed the body of Jenny Olsen, the stepdaughter. They also found small bodies of two unidentified children and subsequently the body of Andrew Helgelien, who. His brother was the one. Azel, probably not, was the one who was making. They found his body, and. And then as they begin digging, they just keep finding bodies. And so these are the bodies they found. Ole B. Bunsberg of Iola, Wisconsin. Did you hate him? Did I pronounce it wrong?

[Steven]

I'm like, good luck with this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's gonna get worse. I mean, there's just a fucking shitload of Scandinavian names I'm not gonna be able to pronounce. Thomas Lindbo, Henry Gerlholt. They find his watch in the ground. Olaf Svenarhud. This is like. This is like.

[Steven]

Sorry, that was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is also like a Betty Weitz character on Golden Girls, where I'm just like, oh, you mean when Olaf Sverdenhud went down to the farm and never came back? John Moe, he was there too. Olaf Lindbloom. I mean, it just goes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's insane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It goes on and on. And she ended up. They think that she killed over 40.

[Georgia Hardstark]

People.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Men, women, and children.

[Steven]

Holy moly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this is kind of my favorite part of it. And there's lots of people there, like, unnamed, or somebody would, like, came by. There's, you know, it's bad. And they actually didn't dig the whole farm at the time. They found kind of the Bodies that they knew proved that she really was a killer. But they didn't actually excavate the entire farm. So they know of 40, but they think there could be tons more. Cause she had many, many hundreds of acres to bury. Boddy, should we go there now?

[Steven]

Oh, my God. I'm dying too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Does anybody have a shovel?

[Steven]

That'll be so much fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But she's gone. She's disappeared.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So nobody ever. There's lots of sightings of her, and there's people who are like. There's detectives who think they see her in Mexico City, in New York City, and all over the place, but no one ever actually finds her.

[Producer Molly]

Really.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh huh. And then. But in 1931, a woman whose name was Esther Carlson was arrested in Los Angeles for poisoning August Lindstrom for money. And two people who had known Bill Guinness claimed to recognize her from the photographs. But the identification was never proved. And Esther Carlson died in jail while awaiting trial.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whoa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that is the story of Belle Gunness, everybody.

[Steven]

Man, that's good. Never found her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They never found her. She got away with it. She got away with it.

[Steven]

She probably did more, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Well, she.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, in between. Yes. Oh, yeah. Now she's good at it.

[Steven]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if. Or what if she didn't? What if she stopped murdering? She's like, I'm gonna get this candy thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Steven]

And then she became Mrs. Haribo.

[Producer Molly]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on.

[Producer Molly]

Okay, we are back.

[Steven]

It's an old case.

[Producer Molly]

Karen, any updates?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nope. None.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But here's the update I do have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

After our 2017 show in Indianapolis, Harold Schechter released Hell's the Mystery of Belle Gunness, Butcher of Men. And that became a bestselling biography. It's still considered one of the most detailed accounts of Belle's story. So it's everything I needed to tell the story and did not have. A year later, all the other true crime podcasters get to benefit from Harold Schechter's book. Also, the personal ad sign off, triflers need not Apply, that was from Belle Gunness hand directly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We made merch. Everybody loves it.

[Producer Molly]

It was. It was a huge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was big.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Triflers need not Apply was like a big moment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, yeah, I think this was an epic show kind of all the way around.

[Producer Molly]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we're only halfway through because Georgia's about to the thunder with one of my favorite cases.

[Producer Molly]

It keeps getting more and more attention and becoming more and more awful. And the details, it's almost like I don't think a lot of people really knew about it before we started the podcast. Yeah. And it's just getting to be one of those like, oh, shit, this is a heavy fucking hitter story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, big time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So George is about to tell everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The story of Herb Baumeister. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

[Producer Molly]

Facing a beauty emergency? Need a last minute gift?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, don't panic. Sephora is now available for delivery on Uber Eats.

[Producer Molly]

You can now get all your beauty essentials delivered in as little as 25 minutes for the same price as in store.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plus, treat yourself to $10 off when you spend $50 or more on your first Sephora order on the Uber Eats app.

[Producer Molly]

Order Sephora on Uber Eats today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Offer ends October 30th.

[Karen Kilgariff]

One order per customer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Additional terms apply. Seat for availability. Delivery fees may apply.

[Steven]

Goodbye.

[Producer Molly]

Starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clarke Murdoch Death in the Family is the new Hulu original series that explores the unraveling of a southern dynasty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Through a deadly boat crash, double homicide and a massive embezzlement scheme.

[Producer Molly]

Inspired by shocking actual events, the dramatized series draws from reporting by Mandy Matney, creator of the popular podcast that followed one of the most twisted crime sagas in recent history.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This gripping series brings the drama to life like never before.

[Producer Molly]

It's a story of secrets, deception and murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Watch the Hulu original series Murdoch Death.

[Producer Molly]

In the now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Your pet is your best friend, your therapist and your unpaid intern.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So don't just feed them, fuel them with Hill's pet nutrition.

[Producer Molly]

Hills is backed by science to support whole body health in dogs and cats.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As a leader in science led nutrition, Hills supports lean muscles which are essential for everything your pet does, whether that's the Zoomies, Squirrel patrol or occasionally knocking something over. Hill's science led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible because you're only human.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's Hills.

[Producer Molly]

Science does more. Find the right [e-mail] iheart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Steven]

All right, you fucking sickos. You ready for this one? Cause this one's fucked up. I bet you guys know what it is already. Her Baumeister.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gotta be.

[Steven]

Screw that. Her Baumeister. There we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Herbmeister.

[Steven]

Fucking herb born.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I say something? One stump really quick.

[Steven]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There is a picture. When you google Herb Baumeister and you google images, it's hilarious. I mean, whatever, but there's one picture and I don't. It's the COVID of a book someone wrote. It's that mask, that skin mask yeah.

[Producer Molly]

What is that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What is that?

[Steven]

I don't know. It comes up and it's terrifying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It comes up and I click off of it really fast. But then sometimes I wait like. Like three seconds, then I click off it really fast.

[Steven]

I don't have it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's such a bummer. That's on you guys. That's your time, Stephen.

[Producer Molly]

Leave it up.

[Steven]

The whole time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It looks like anything you've seen in Ed Gein school. Except for that it's melting on purpose to fuck with you. It's so upsetting.

[Producer Molly]

It could be.

[Steven]

I don't think that's his.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You don't think he made it?

[Steven]

I don't know. I don't know if he did that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was it just a piece of art?

[Steven]

Probably unrelated. You know how, like.

[Producer Molly]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How stuff gets in there and all of a sudden you're like Hulk Hogan? Come on. I'm trying to look up a murder.

[Steven]

One of the first photos that comes up when you Google my name, not that I do it every night or anything, is a Miley Cyrus photo. And I don't know why.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You lucky.

[Steven]

I know. Okay. April 7, 1947. Herb Baumeister is born. And in suburban Westfield, near Indianapolis. His childhood's normal, but his adolescence. He begins exhibiting antisocial behavior. Acquaintances later recall him playing with dead animals and urinating on a teacher's desk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Steven]

Like, was he standing on it, peeing down? Or was he just, like, up in the air?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was like a waterfall from his desk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause then that's not antisocial. It's like, the coolest guy in class.

[Producer Molly]

Yeah.

[Steven]

That's like, very social.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven]

I have so many questions about that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven]

A friend says he would say strange things. Like, wonders what it would be like to taste human urine. Not interested. And he had a fascination with dead animals as a teenager. He's diagnosed with schizophrenia, but he doesn't receive further psychiatric treatment, which seems so hard to believe because. Anyway, he just. He was successful in a lot of ways. So I don't know if that's okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, he could afford doctors and stuff, you mean. No.

[Steven]

That he was schizophrenic at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. He went on to, like, have normal jobs and stuff.

[Producer Molly]

Got it.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Like unmedicated.

[Producer Molly]

Okay.

[Steven]

As an adult, he's turned to a successful murderer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

That seems like a hard thing to be. Yeah. As an adult, he starts to exhibit increasingly bizarre behavior. But, of course, someone still marries him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Always.

[Steven]

I have a photo. I think there's a photo of the two of them. Together, the Bellmeister family. No. Let's look at him for their.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There they are.

[Steven]

Steven, you did not put these in order. Steven, you didn't put these in the order. I didn't tell you to put them in. Never told you about. That one works. I think there's one more behind it. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, look at that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. He put a ring on that crazy.

[Steven]

Motherfucker and he's like, I'm gonna kill a lot of people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, sure, I'll buy you a ring.

[Steven]

Little dust. Does she know he marries Julie Sater in 1971 and they have three fucking children. Although Julie later admits that she and Herb had sex only six times in the 25 years they were married. So you can go back to the one of the family. There we go. Look at those. Kids are like, oh, fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's just six times. So it was two for the kids.

[Steven]

Three for the kids.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Three. Oh, three kids.

[Steven]

Each time took two tries.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that was it.

[Steven]

That's it. That's all you get, Julie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then there's a piece of tape down the middle of the bed. You stay on your side.

[Steven]

Yes, but actually, she said she never saw him nude. That he would get dressed in the bathroom, put pajamas on the bathroom before coming to bed. He was ashamed of a skinny body, but also a psychopath. So, yeah, it's not just like, a lot of people are skinny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A lot of people are. You know, that's kind of the dream for some. A lot of people are, like, flaunting that.

[Steven]

Yeah, that's true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Making money at it.

[Steven]

He has a bunch of weird jobs, but his behavior is always weird and creepy. Including urinating on his body.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, he was like, it's me. The urinating on the desk guy.

[Steven]

Kind of his thing again. Standing on the floor and pissing up or standing on the desk. Because it's kind of like. Like funny. If he was standing on the desk, you know, but he's on the ground, it's like, oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or was the desk in the bathroom and it's not his fault?

[Steven]

Fair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's be fair.

[Steven]

Good question.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fairness.

[Steven]

What if in the bathroom after this, there's just a. I walked in to pee and there's just a desk in the bathroom. It's haunted.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Eat it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Someone's like, georgia, I'm glad you came in to see me today. Oh, this is your yearly review?

[Steven]

Never saw him nude. He was skinny, weird job, peed on the desk. Then he founds a thrift store chain in Indianapolis in 1988. Called Save a Lot of.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Boo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Save A Lot sucks.

[Steven]

Did you guys know that you used to buy your fucking vintage shit at the fucking murderer's shop?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was all covered in pee. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I don't normally do pee and poo jokes.

[Steven]

What if. What if your like childhood bunk bed was from Save A Lot? Oh, bad memories.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All of a sudden, your mom, you keep getting blamed. You're like, I swear to God, I don't wet the bed. I know, I'm seven. Can you please listen to me?

[Steven]

Then why does it smell like pain? It became super fucking successful and they open a second location and they got super fucking rich. They buy a huge Tudor house in upscale Westfield district called. It's called Fox Hollow Farms. They have a fucking. You live in a place with a name.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, we got rich people here. Yeah.

[Steven]

Guys, fox Hollow Farms. 18 and a half acres and an indoor pool, which is. Depresses me so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It smells so much like chlorine in that pool.

[Steven]

They always. It just makes me think of like your divorced dad who's like spending all his money before your mom can get it. It's just like. So he has an indoor pool? Yeah, it's just like. I don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kids, it's snowing. Get in there.

[Steven]

And you're like, but I can't. But I don't want to do laps. Okay then. In the 90s, 1990s, gay men in the Indianapolis area start to disappear. Authorities of course, blamed it on their lifestyle. And they were like, they ran away to the big city, you know, to like. So we were. We wouldn't like make fun of them. So that's where they went. And all the men were of similar age, height and weight, but. But Virgil Vandegrift, who's like a fucking. The hero of the story needs to be played by like Harrison Ford or some shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He is kind of a Vande Griffey type.

[Steven]

Vande Griff. Virgil.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Virgil Vandegriff. Virgil, look at my earring.

[Steven]

He has an earring.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I hate that earring.

[Steven]

They just call him Grif Griffy. Anyways, he's a retired, successful private investigator, which is fucking awesome. And he's approached by the mother of 28 year old Alan Broussard to ask for help finding her missing son. And Virgil starts to put the pieces together. Alan was part of the local gay scene and was last seen leaving a bar called Brothers. Well after party there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where it seems like Brothers. Something's going on at Brothers. I don't know. I Kind of don't want to know. It would take too long for an audience to tell us a story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But.

[Steven]

But let's have our bachelorette party, right? That's weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or it burned down and people are upset.

[Steven]

We won't know.

[Producer Molly]

Okay.

[Steven]

While investigating Allen's disappearance, Vandegrift stumbles upon the case of Jeff Jones, who disappeared in mid-93, a year earlier, vanishing from the streets of Indianapolis. The last disappearance, which caused Vandergrift to link all the cases and convince him that Indianapolis has a serial killer was when he was confronted by a man named Tony Harris. I think that's not his real name, though, because he was like, I don't want to be a part of this. He tells Vandegrift that his friend Roger Alan Goodlett, 34, had left a gay bar called Our Place with a man calling himself Brian Smart, and he hadn't been seen since. So Tony is convinced that Brian Smart had killed his friend, but when police brush him off, he takes matters into his own hands.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, hell, yeah. Chuck Norris style.

[Steven]

Heck, yeah. Played by Chuck Norris.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've done it.

[Steven]

We're casting this thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're doing several jobs at once.

[Steven]

Stephen, write those names down. When Tony next sees Brian Smart at a gay bar, he tricks Smart into taking him home with him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, he's going undercover, Like.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Producer Molly]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's not a good idea, though.

[Steven]

I know, but it's pretty badass.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's insanely badass.

[Steven]

Yeah, only because he survived, and otherwise it wouldn't be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It would be an intense tragedy.

[Steven]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we all understand.

[Steven]

We got that. Smart invites Tony back to his house for a cocktail and a swim. When they get to Brian Smart's house, a large Tudor mansion, they go for a swim in the indoor pool. And eventually things get weirder when Smart says, you know what I mean? Yeah, indoor pool is weird enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Weird.

[Steven]

I just learned that. So Brian Smart says, I just learned this really great trick. If you choke someone while you're having sex, it feels really great. That's not a trick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're like, we were.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were just talking about baseball. What the fuck? What are you doing?

[Steven]

Yeah, I thought you were gonna show me some magic. This is not a magic trick. This is creepy. And he says, if you choke someone, you really get a great rush. He says, okay, sounds fun. Brian shows Tony how to pinch the carotid arteries and says, it's such a great buzz. You should see how someone looks when you're doing it to them. Their lips change colors. And that's how you can tell it's working. And you're like, cool, let's make out. Like, who the fuck would.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just want to know you more now.

[Steven]

Yeah. Yeah. So Tony allows Smart to demonstrate on him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But Tony's not the private investigator, right?

[Steven]

No, Tony's the dude whose friend lifts a gay bar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he's just like, I'm going. I'm going to do this myself. Yeah, that's awful.

[Steven]

A lot of bad ideas. A lot of bad ideas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Maybe he thought he could find.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, go ahead.

[Steven]

Sorry I keep interrupting.

[Producer Molly]

No, it's good.

[Steven]

That's the point of this whole podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, right. That's right.

[Steven]

So he allows him to do it, but he pretends to be unconscious before he could pass out, which I always thought was a fake thing. Eventually, Tony convinces Smart to take him back into town. It happens. He wakes back up and he's like, I'm good. And they're like. He's like, can you take me back to town? And he does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he's like, fine.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause he didn't pass out sexy enough or something. Also, what I hate is I'm picturing all of it happening in an indoor pool. So it's all echoey.

[Steven]

Smelly. Yeah, it's like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Smells like chemicals. And it's like, now you pass out.

[Steven]

Can you just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I gotta go.

[Steven]

A gross, moldy chaise lounge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

One of those signs that says, we don't swim in your toilet. Please don't pee in our pool.

[Steven]

Or active diarrhea if you have it. Please don't come in. Heard that. Who's in that one?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Active diarrhea.

[Steven]

If you have had active diarrhea in the past 24 hours. This is. We don't do shit jokes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but it's not. It's not who we are.

[Steven]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's also the one that's like, welcome to our ool. You might notice there's no pee in it. Let's keep it that way.

[Steven]

That's funny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Signs from the 70s.

[Steven]

Love it. Da da da da da. And then.

[Producer Molly]

Oh.

[Steven]

And then. So he convinces him to take him back to town. Tony brought this information to Vandegrift, who I'm sure Tony left some shit out. Probably right? That's, like, even worse than that. And he also told Vandegrift about how there were mannequins in the basement where Smart had his, like, bar hang area. What do they call them? Like a bachelor or murder area. Yeah, mannequins, all dressed up in various poses, like, hanging Out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm gonna start crying. I don't like this at all.

[Steven]

Well, when Tony's like, what the fuck, Smart? He's like, I get lonely down here. They give me company. They give me company.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They give me.

[Steven]

Do you know what I bet? I bet So I think he would bring home clothes from his thrift store. I bet he'd bring them back and someone in this audience is wearing them. 1 Or.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can we bring the house lights up? Do you know how loud I would start screaming if we turned a corner? We're like, here's the mannequin room. I would just be like. I mean, mm, mm.

[Steven]

Especially if you look like that fucking dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can we get the closer picture of Herb? Because that one's a really. One more back by himself. Cause he's got the eyes. He's got the eyes of a person that loves mannequins. They'll find it. There he is. I love mannequins.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Don't you love mannequins?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, they're just peaceful people, but they don't talk.

[Steven]

Her. Okay, so he brings us all the info to the police. Virgil Vandegrift brings this info to the police. But the only person who would take him seriously was a detective named Mary Wilson, who's. Who's played by her. Who's playing her?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Marsha Gay Hardin probably is my first guest.

[Producer Molly]

Great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because you're gonna have. She's gonna be a person that's gonna be a lure, like a good pantsuit. She's gonna put her hand back like this and show her gun. But she might. She's not gonna brandish her gun. She's just gonna be like, I've got a gun.

[Steven]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Marcia Gay Harden for you, ladies and gentlemen.

[Steven]

That's perfect. So Mary, as it turns out, was investigating disappearances of other Indianapolis men as well those of 20 year old Richard Hamilton, 21 year old Johnny Baer, and 28 year old Alan Livingston and others dating back to the early 90s. All gay men. Well, Tony couldn't remember where Smart's house was located.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, Tony.

[Steven]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's key information.

[Steven]

I know. He's like, I think it had the name Fox in it. Like, he really couldn't remember. And they even were like, what about this house that has an indoor pool? And he's like, I don't think it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was Tony, okay? Tony was high as hell.

[Steven]

Little coke, little fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, look, I had to blend in. It's just I had to do what was everybody else was doing.

[Steven]

It's the early 90s. There's a lot of coke. Probably.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't really remember an indoor pool or mannequins.

[Steven]

Let's see. He couldn't remember, but he is obsessively frequenting gay bars for the next year in hopes of spotting Smart again. He's like, I'm gonna fix the fact that I can't remember this shit. Well, yeah, but he couldn't track him down a whole year almost. Then on the night of August 29, 1995, Tony spots Smart and Ingeborg takes down his motherfucking license plate number.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice.

[Steven]

When Mary Wilson runs the plates, they belong to not anyone named Brian Smart, but to Herbert R. Baumeister of Westfield, Indiana. Did you guys not catch on to that? Probably right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I did. Yeah, I did.

[Steven]

I did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I definitely did.

[Steven]

He lived in a state called Blah, blah blah with his wife and children. The Manor House. Mary learned how to swimming pool in the basement. Basement. Mary confronted Herb at his thrift store. She's like, I think you're a fucking murderer of gay men. And his thrift store is failing right now because of his increasingly erratic behavior with mannequins.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Herb, we don't need that many mannequins in here.

[Producer Molly]

It's just.

[Steven]

You can't even walk through the aisles.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's nuts. You don't need. You don't need shopping mannequins. We have shoppers for the.

[Steven]

That. Oh, how creepy would that be? If you turn a corner with your shopping cart and it's just like, mannequin with a shopping cart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wanted this Coors T shirt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's mine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God. Oh, no, no.

[Steven]

But he refuses to talk. They said they wanted to search his home. And they're like. He's like, talk to my lawyer. Don't talk to me again. But then they go to his wife, Julie, who also has, you know, rain over the property and is like, hey, guess what your husband is. When we think he's killing gay men around town. Can we search your property? And she's like, I can't deal with this right now. Get the out of here. Nope, nope. She like, noped it real hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that makes a lot of sense.

[Steven]

You gotta. Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's awful.

[Producer Molly]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, oh, then gonna go for a swim. I can't handle this right now.

[Steven]

Well, six months goes by, and her brain is like, oh. Like, slowly catching up to the. Oh, fuckedness of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven]

She remembers that a year earlier, her son had been playing in the wooded backyard. And he finds a half buried, complete human skeleton. What?

[Audience Member / Guest]

Hey, Mommy. Mommy. You look at am.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mommy, Mommy, it's Halloween already.

[Producer Molly]

Oh.

[Steven]

And she's like, oh, shit. And she's like, honey, please tell me an excuse because I can't handle this. And he told her that his father had been a doctor. He said it had been one of his dissecting skeletons. But he stored it in the garage and then buried it in the backyard after he decided to clean the garage as you do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And there was the slippers and brine. You know, it's like this all the time.

[Steven]

Well, this happens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I thought you were gonna say. And I feel like other people did too. Like the sun found like. Like a human femur or just some one small thing.

[Steven]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not a half buried human motherfucking skeleton. All like Wes Craven presents in your backyard. It is so upsetting.

[Steven]

That poor kid, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ugh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus.

[Steven]

He's not having a good life. I hope he is. Or. Or he's living his best life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. He became Oprah Winfrey.

[Steven]

Love it. Love it. In addition, for several months at a time, she and the kids would get the fuck out of there and visit his mother, leaving Herb at home alone for like, months at a time. Makes sense, right? When you leave your husband for months and go to his mom's house because she's cooler to hang out with than your husband.

[Karen Kilgariff]

His mom's cooler than him.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's your marriage.

[Steven]

Yeah. Great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye.

[Steven]

And the timeline. She put it together and the timeline matched of when the guys were disappearing. So she was like, you know what? I'm gonna file for divorce. And then she calls Mary and she's like, get the fuck over here now. He's out of town. So in June of 96, Mary. Mary goes to Mary, along with some skeptical officers, who, of course, are like. They ran away to the big city, you know, still no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It simply must be so.

[Steven]

Yeah, well, I don't look at evidence. I make it up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Easy, easy.

[Steven]

Yeah. I thought you were like, easy, easy. No, no, no. Easy peasy. Got it. They go to the property to search. They step out into the backyard, and they immediately encounter a bone about a foot long, charred from having been burned in the backyard, as well as fragments of bone strewn about and even human teeth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, dude. That's from my uncle's dentist. Dental company. He used to love gardening so much.

[Steven]

We heard it helps the plants grow and keeps the bugs away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You sprinkle teeth on petunias. Oh, the colors.

[Steven]

The state fair. Every year I enter Them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is nightmare. You walk out from an indoor pool into fucking boneyard.

[Steven]

Like crunch, crunch.

[Producer Molly]

What?

[Steven]

The sheriffs are like, we don't think this is. Oh, fuck. And Mary's like, gun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven]

What did I tell ya?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I fucking told you so.

[Steven]

Uh huh. After police thoroughly search the 18 acre estate, they turn up the remains of 11 men. Early in his investigation. Vande Griff. Good old fucking reliable Vandegrift. He's gonna be played by a hound dog. I think you know what I mean? With a fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Steven]

You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Hat and coat.

[Steven]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Steven]

McGrath. Yep. He's McGrath.

[Producer Molly]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's halfway there. It's all there.

[Steven]

McGrath. Vandergriff. There we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So easy.

[Steven]

So he had made connections to the disappearances of gay men in Indianapolis. Between them and the strangling murders of gay men whose bodies were found dumped along the Corridor of Interstate 70 in Indiana and Ohio between Indianapolis and Columbus. Is that right? Which had been dubbed the i70 murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's Herb.

[Steven]

Well, here we go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, sorry.

[Steven]

Yes. Thank you for listening.

[Producer Molly]

Listening. That's my story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good night.

[Steven]

The last known i70 murder, nine of them in all, had been committed in 1990, not long before the Indianapolis disappearances began. So Julie Baumeister told authorities that her husband made as many as 100 trips to Ohio. And on what he said was a business trip. You know, as you do it. You're a thrift store fucking shopper.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You gotta get that good. Ohio thrift clothing.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys have all those grandma sweaters.

[Producer Molly]

I would do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would do it right now.

[Steven]

I would go right now. First we go dig up the rest of your lady's farm. Then you fucking go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then we go down to Sweaterland. Or is it down. Don't know where I am that way. Not sure where I am.

[Steven]

Is there barbecue on the way? We stop for barbecue on the way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good, good, Good.

[Steven]

Great then. So 100 business trips on when he said a store business during the late 80s. And his photo matched the police sketch drawn from witnesses who thought they had seen the i70 strangler, which I think was a fucking sketch of it because Steven's awesome. Do do do do do do do do do.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Ooh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The one on the right is the scarecrow from the wizard of Oz.

[Steven]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll miss you most of all. Scarecrow.

[Steven]

I don't know if it looks like him, but he's a. That guy's creepy. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were like, just. Can you give the Worst eyes you've ever looked at. And then a weird, pouty lip. Trust me on this.

[Steven]

Very, very light mustache.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And let's pluck those eyebrows a little bit.

[Steven]

Yeah. Yeah. So he's officially later declared the i70 killer. Wow. Yeah. So this guy, during the time. During the stretch, during the search of his property, he. Herb. Disappears. Herb.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Herb.

[Steven]

Do you know why I did that? And I feel like I was. I knew I was gonna do that at some point is. Cause when I was a kid, I called herbs, herbs. And my mom yelled at me for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's a trickery.

[Steven]

So now I see the word herb and I'm like, don't fuck that up. But it's Herb. Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So many issues on the table tonight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You would.

[Steven]

So many.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Never even. You wouldn't expect it.

[Steven]

We look so normal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they arrested Herb. Herb.

[Steven]

So he disappears from the place. He's staying out of town when he finds out they're searching his property. He was at Lake Wawassee in Cosico.

[Audience Member / Guest]

County.

[Steven]

Where we'll be touring next. Then he up ends. Enter. What? Thank you. Then he enters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, now it's perfectly clear. Thank you.

[Steven]

I learned in Oregon not to repeat with the name because I got it wrong again. And everyone just yells it loud.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. That was so. Do you remember the name of that city?

[Steven]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Steven]

It was hard, though. You guys. Okay, so he. Is he. Okay, he goes out of town and he goes into Canada on June 30. He ends up in Grand Bend, Ontario. And there at Pinery park, on the evening of July 3, Herb writes a suicide note attributing his decision to kill himself to his failing business and irreparable marriage. But note doesn't mention the skeletons or the dead men.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's okay.

[Steven]

No, it's because his marriage sucks. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven]

His final words on the three page suicide note said that he would now eat a peanut butter sandwich, which was his favorite, favorite snack, and then go to sleep. He even apologized for messing up the park. Then he put a.375 Magnum.375 Magnum. I don't know. Guns, Revolver, barrel. I don't know. I don't know percentages.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He put.375 guns into his mouth just.

[Steven]

To be sure, but he didn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Irvin. Yeah.

[Steven]

He puts it to his forehead. He pulls the trigger. His body is found eight days later. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Got us. You know, it's some hikers going, what's that smell? It's always, what's that smell from hikers?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And what are all those flies doing over there?

[Steven]

Yeah. Yeah. The evening before he died, a Canadian trooper stopped him to ask him why he was sleeping in his car to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ask him why the long face. I'm sorry.

[Steven]

Hey, why the peanut butter sandwich and the long face?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Quit messing up this part.

[Steven]

Before letting him go, she notices some luggage in the back and what looked like a pile of videotapes in his backseat. But when they find his car. No signs of the videotapes. They are never recovered. Police suspect he threw them into a river before he went and killed himself. I hope so. Virgil Vandegrift said, well, these videotapes of the murders he committed, were these the videotapes of the murders he committed in the pool at Fox Hollow Farms? We'll never know. And perhaps it's for the best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then you have to play Virgil Grande rough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Clearly.

[Steven]

Thank you. Okay, really quickly then. Of course. I fucking looked in the email. Sorry, you guys, my allergies are, you know, the city.

[Producer Molly]

Okay.

[Steven]

Hey, Georgia and Karen, I started your podcast months ago and been meaning to send you my hometown murder, but I'm so fucking forgetful and lazy I never got around to it until now. Hey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi.

[Steven]

I'm from a small city of Westfield, Indiana and have lived here my whole life. My hometown murder starts when I was around 10 and I used to hang out with my friend about six out of the seven days of a week for the summers I lived there. Something. I was thrilled to find out that they moved to a beautiful farmhouse about a mile away from where I lived.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no.

[Steven]

Oh no, it's not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did we get that?

[Steven]

It's not that it's not. It's totally that.

[Audience Member / Guest]

It is trick you.

[Steven]

Not only because this house was a hop, skip and a jump away from my house. I love that. But it was fucking insane. They had acres of land where their newly purchased horses round a giant mansion. An oddly rememberable indoor pool where we spent most of our time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, really? And what about the ghosts that were there with you?

[Steven]

Well, I never got a creepy or eerie feeling about the house until I was older and started noticing odd things. Such as the secret room behind my friend's bathroom mirror.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Say it again. Say it again. What's this you say?

[Steven]

I never got a creepy or eerie feeling about the house until I was older and started noticing odd things about the secret room behind my friend's bathroom mirror.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, room behind a mirror. Then you go into the room face first through a mirror.

[Steven]

It Just said murder room face first into a room. Or maybe the fact that we found, quote, animal bones in the backyard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Steven]

Our parents freaked out a little more than I thought they would. But it wasn't until I was watching a local network when I found out that the fairy house my friend lived in, Fox Hollow Farms, was previously owned by a serial killer. My parents obviously knew, but kept it from me because of my age, apparently. And then she says, killed them in the indoor swimming pool. I didn't realize. Don't worry, it doesn't stop there. He continued to burn them in the fireplace and buried them in the backyard. So he burned them in his fireplace, which I didn't find that info anywhere else. It's a pretty interesting story if you guys ever have time to read it, which I know you won't. It says that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So negative.

[Steven]

Yeah, well, that's all I have. Love the podcast. If you're ever in Indianapolis, maybe we can take a tour of the farm. Ssdgm. Maddie, that's Herb Baumeister. Baumeister. Way to go, Indianapolis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that is. There is a Ghost hunters or a haunting. There's an episode of one of those shows and that's the first time I heard of this story.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it is such a bummer because everything else is bad. Real time, how it happened. The fact that it was like just a marginalized group of people who were like, oh, it's not a problem that these men are disappearing. All those things. The fact that people, you know, these murderers get away with killing people, and.

[Steven]

Then he gets to just kill himself and never have to deal with any of it. Never talks about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then mannequins, indoor pools, as we've talked.

[Steven]

About, behind the mirror rooms, behind the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, then on top of it, ghosts. Then you fucking fold some ghost feelings inside there.

[Steven]

I want to thank this fucking town because sometimes we'll go to a city and I'm like, I don't know. Like, I've done every Chicago murder. I don't know what else to do at this town. I was like, oh, my God.

[Audience Member / Guest]

This is like.

[Steven]

It felt like a gift that was given to me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I get to tell everybody about Herb. Yeah.

[Steven]

Thank you, Indianapolis. So. That was amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was so good.

[Steven]

Yeah. Thank you. I didn't mean like, that was amazing, Georgia. I just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're even. If you don't clap, we're gonna be like, that was fucking incredible. And standing up.

[Steven]

Can I show you Georgia Font?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's see it. Tilde.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tilde.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is gorgeous.

[Steven]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so clear.

[Steven]

Thank you. It's so not convoluted. Like, I am.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What was in the room behind the mirror? And why wouldn't you just put a secret door instead of. How do you get into a room that's behind a mirror? Is there another door besides the mirror? Yeah, like a full length fucking mirror in a different room. Does it have to be mirrors? Are you a warlock of some kind? Is there anyone that knows the answers?

[Steven]

Yeah. Who built that mirror for him? Did they come over and like, sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Steven]

He was like, it's for my mannequin. It's my mannequin room.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My mannequin asked if he could have a secret room behind the mirror. And I was like, you know what? It's your birthday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You get this.

[Steven]

And the builder's like, okay, yeah, sounds legit. Great, let's do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's my bill. Everything's cool. You get to live your life. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're back. Are there updates for this story?

[Producer Molly]

There are nearly three decades after the death of serial killer Herb Baumeister. The victims are still being identified. As of this year, there are at least 25 victims suspected to have been buried at Fox Hollow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

25. It's a small town cemetery.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ah, wild.

[Producer Molly]

More victims were identified in 20, 23 and 24, thanks to renewed efforts by Hamilton County Coroner Jeff Jellison, who used new DNA technology to identify the thousands of human bones and bone fragments found on Baumeister's property.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God.

[Producer Molly]

This enabled them to identify additional victims, including Alan Livingston, who I mentioned. Manuel Resendez, Jeffrey Allen Jones, who went by Jeff, who was also mentioned. And then earlier this year, Hulu released a four part docu series called the Fox Hollo Murders Playground of a Serial Killer that explores a theory that Baumeister had an accomplice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Producer Molly]

And there's actually still a phone number to call to contact the Hamilton County Coroner's Office if you think you need to arrange a DNA sample for a loved one who went missing all the way back then. And God, I just. I still think about his children and I hope they're well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so wildly dark and scary and continuing on the idea that they're still investigating in that way where it's like, is this possible that one person could have gotten all this done? Just re approaching it constantly to be like, what is the real answer of what happened here? At least they're doing that.

[Producer Molly]

Well, you know what? It reminds me so much and that maybe it's just because I'm reading a book about it. Right now. And there was just a new documentary about it, but the Dean Corll, you know, Candyman Killers. Same thing where he was dead. So they kind of of have to uncover all this information through his accomplices and just whatever information, like they're still identifying bodies. It's just like, how does it happen and how does it happen and go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

On for so long that then the after effect goes on for. I mean, Herbmeister, 30 years. They're still working on that because it was ignored and it was marginalized group. It was like, this doesn't matter.

[Producer Molly]

And a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Steven]

Ugh, it's so gross.

[Producer Molly]

Okay, the book is called the Serial Killer's Apprentice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's really good about the Candyman.

[Producer Molly]

Yeah. And there's a documentary about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, well, now we have a hometown story from the live show about the barbecue murders from audience members Taylor and Rebecca.

[Producer Molly]

Ooh. Uh huh. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Do you think that we have time?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And here's the cool part. And this is on our system. We've got a story you tweeted at us today or yesterday, and I need to hear the story about the girl who dressed up in her murdered cousin's clothes. That's coming out wrong. Someone put her into clothes.

[Steven]

Wait, did the girl that's about to come up here dress in her?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's let her explain it. I see her there.

[Steven]

Okay, come around this way. Come around this way. And then army roll.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Army crawl.

[Steven]

Which has happened. Let's bring out our hometown lady.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where are you? Thank you.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Oh, hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Hi.

[Steven]

What's your name?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You probably don't need Taylor.

[Steven]

Taylor, we don't need all that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I'm Rebecca. Hi, Rebecca.

[Producer Molly]

We don't need it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you guys want to get up on this? Like backup singers?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Fun.

[Producer Molly]

Here.

[Steven]

We can just sing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Taylor and Rebecca, explain that tweet so that people understand. What's your name? Noah. Let's give it a making it all happen for us. Sound wise? Thank you.

[Steven]

Here, talking to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks, Noah.

[Steven]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Use it anyway. Show business.

[Steven]

So I sent the tweet out, but it's her story.

[Producer Molly]

Get out of here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Audience Member / Guest]

It had to be told.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's too creepy and weird. Are you guys related to.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

No, we worked together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Yeah. So I actually sent this in as an email and I was telling Becca about it, and she was like, no, no, no, no. You have to tell this story. So this actually happened before I was born. My mom was actually pregnant with me, and I'm from one of Those families in, like, Southern Indiana who has, like, all of these cousins? They're not actually cousins. They're just, like, through marriage or, like, your parents are really close friends or whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's easier to say that we have that in Cal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's called having friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I have.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

I called them my cousins. But at the time, there was Jamie, who was, like, 4, and Sherry Lynn, who was about a year and a half old. And their parents had just gotten divorced. Their dad was in the Navy, and he was stationed in Pearl harbor, and he got custody of the kids after the divorce.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whatever.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Whatever. Took the kids off to Pearl Harbor. And one day he was like, sherrilyn's missing. She's gone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And is she the older one or the younger one?

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's the younger one.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

She's like, a year and a half old, and she's like, she's gone. I don't know what happened. I went out, I met this woman. I brought her back, and then I just noticed that she was gone. So, like, two days later, I happened to notice that my children weren't there anymore. So two days later, they found a body in Pearl harbor in a duffel bag that was just, like, floating along, you know, Hawaii. And Sherry Lynn is inside. And so he claims that he doesn't know. He doesn't know what's happened. And then this woman comes forward, and she was like. I was the woman he took home that night. She wouldn't stop crying, and he was like, oh, just ignore the baby. This is fine. We can and, you know, like, still have our time together.

[Steven]

Yeah, let's still make out. Crying baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Yeah. And she was like, no, this is, like, really fucking weird, man. I don't want to, like, kiss you while your baby's crying. And so she left and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stings.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Yeah, right. So what eventually happened is that he got really mad and strangled the baby and was like, I don't know what to do with this body. So let's just, like, put it in, like, a national monument. No one's gonna find it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

And so it was actually kind of the same thing. Like, he was acquitted with, like, a regular jury, but then, like, the Navy.

[Steven]

Remember?

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

I don't know what story that was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't remember.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Steven]

Ncis.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mark Harmon doesn't fuck around with stuff like that. He'll come after your ass.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

So he went to jail, and they're doing this investigation. My mom is, like, nine and 10,000 months pregnant with me at the time, and the FB, like, bursts into her work and is like, what do you know about this? And she's like, I am just a little pregnant woman. I have no clue what you're talking about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that old story.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Yeah. So he ends up going to jail for like, 15 years. And when he gets out, the first thing he does is he comes back to Indiana and he visits the grave. And I had, like, family members who were there at the time. And he just, like, awkwardly walked up and was like, hey, guys.

[Steven]

Like, oh, you're like, can you gta?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Like, this is really awkward. And then he's never been seen again. Like, we. Yeah, we've never seen him again. But I had an aunt who kept all of her clothes. And every year when I had, like, my pictures at like, 3, 4, 5, 6.

[Steven]

Oh, my God, they put me in.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Her clothes until I was like, too big anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why? Why, why, why, why? Who would do that in my life?

[Steven]

They just get to this age and they're gonna have to buy her own clothes now. And you're like, why? Because.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because she also looks like her. Oh, no. Girl.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

So there's a set of, like, two pictures where you can't really tell who's who. Cause we're in the same clothes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like a V.C. andrews novel. What the fuck?

[Steven]

Wow, that's fucked up. Shit. I wish we could put a photo up right now.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

I know. I wish. I tried to find one. And I emailed my mom yesterday and she was like, yeah, dude, we don't look at those. Those are scary.

[Steven]

Your mom's like, dude, what is wrong with.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Exactly.

[Steven]

As most of our family does.

[Taylor or Rebecca (Audience Guest)]

Yeah, my family's pretty messed up.

[Steven]

Well, that's a good one, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a Taylor.

[Audience Member / Guest]

You guys, too.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Thank you so much.

[Steven]

Well done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good job.

[Steven]

You guys did great. Yes, Good job. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Little bag? Yeah. From the Dollar Store. It's shared on the Facebook page.

[Steven]

But the little bags from the Dollar Store.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Oh, sure.

[Steven]

They say, like, top secret, official replacement.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it talks about a fake arson.

[Steven]

It's like an evidence bag. Yeah. That's fucking cool.

[Audience Member / Guest]

That's super cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's inside?

[Steven]

Let's make fudge for the day. So I have tissues and bobby pins. Can I have a tissue?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Georgia needs those. Thank you so much.

[Audience Member / Guest]

You can have full.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just one. Oh, okay. Do you have any gum or anything?

[Steven]

Yes, yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have cinnamon gum. Oh, yeah, I'll take that whole pack.

[Steven]

Bye.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice to meet you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much.

[Steven]

I'm not. Not a hugger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, too Bad. I don't have Pockys. Yeah. Next time.

[Producer Molly]

Next time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was perfect, you guys. That was so awesome. Thank you so much.

[Audience Member / Guest]

Yay.

[Steven]

That was good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

See, we can make mistakes and then we can make good on and we.

[Steven]

Can steal gum and tissue.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We can steal gum and we can have what we want and let people tell the worst story of all time.

[Steven]

And that's what this is all about, is us getting what we want.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Over and over in the most horrible way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was a tough hometown.

[Producer Molly]

Yeah. Yeah. And there's no updates for the case, so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we have to just move on to the titles, even though it feels inappropriate.

[Steven]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I mean, that's what happens sometimes when people have their hand up and they wanna talk about something, that's what we want them to be able to do if that's what they want, and get it out. And I think that's what I do love about our audience, is the audience gets exactly what's happening and is supportive.

[Producer Molly]

It's their show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's their show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they're just like, yep, we're here for all of it, good and bad.

[Producer Molly]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It's very meaningful. So this episode was originally titled Live at the Egyptian Room.

[Producer Molly]

If we were naming it today, maybe.

[Steven]

We would call it I use Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I use Georgia.

[Steven]

I don't know why.

[Producer Molly]

That was like such a revelation, like an embarrassing thing to admit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was the first time you publicly admitted you use the font Georgia.

[Producer Molly]

Of course I do. To this day, I still use it. And Molly, our producer, can confirm that. I ask for my script in Georgia. I just.

[Steven]

I like the way it looks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She loves a mirror. Also, there's also too many nouns.

[Steven]

Yeah, always.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is us being suspicious of Belle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gunness explanation of her dead husband Peter's accident.

[Producer Molly]

You gotta keep it simple.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If we've taught people anything over the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Years, is that it? How to lie.

[Steven]

How to lie.

[Producer Molly]

And then of course, triflers need not apply. I always need that one.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a classic.

[Producer Molly]

All right, well, thanks for listening, you guys. We're gonna say goodbye from the Egyptian Room. Thank you for listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, goodbye. Thank you so much for being here.

[Steven]

Thank you guys. Indianapolis.

[Audience Member / Guest]

We love you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This has been really awesome. What a great show. What an awesome audience, really. We would love it if you would stay sexy and don't get murdered. Bye, you gu.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

[Producer Molly]

Facing a beauty emergency. Need a last minute gift.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, don't panic. Sephora is now available for delivery on Uber Eats.

[Producer Molly]

You can now get all your beauty essentials delivered in as little as 25 minutes for the same price as in store.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plus treat yourself to $10 off when you spend $50 or more on your first Sephora order on the Uber Eats app.

[Producer Molly]

Order Sephora on Uber Uber Eats today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Offer ends October 30th.

[Karen Kilgariff]

One order per customer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Additional terms apply. Seat for availability. Delivery fees may apply.

[Steven]

Goodbye Goodbye.

[Producer Molly]

Your pet is your best friend, your therapist and your unpaid intern.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So don't just feed them, fuel them with Hill's Pet Nutrition.

[Producer Molly]

Hills is backed by science to support whole body health in dogs and cats.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As a leader in science led nutrition, Hills supports lean muscles which are essential for everything your pet does, whether that's the Zoom Squirrel Patrol or occasionally knocking something over. Hill's science led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible because you're only human. There's Hills.

[Producer Molly]

Science does more. Find the right [e-mail] iheart goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Reading a skincare label shouldn't feel like decoding a dead language.

[Producer Molly]

Instead of mystery ingredients, Crunchy gives you skin care and makeup that's safe and effective.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Crunchy delivers uncompromised clean beauty with clinically proven ingredients, sustainable packaging and trusted certifications like EWG Verified and Leap.

[Producer Molly]

Bunny Crunching is creating a future where clean beauty is a genuine promise, not just a marketing term. Because trusting what you put on your skin should be the standard, not the luxury.

[Georgia Hardstark]

From their award winning foundation to their nourishing skin care line, Crunchy is raising the bar.

[Producer Molly]

It's so true. So I've been putting on more makeup than I ever have in my life because we've been doing videos and live shows and so I am really, really careful about what I put on my skin because I break out easily. So I love that. Crunchy is so clean and so nourishing. I'm actually wearing makeup that's good for my skin and makes my skin instead of hiding all the imperfections which is usually what I use makeup for, honestly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Visit crunchy.com to shop clean beauty that performs and take 20% off your order with code MFM.

[Producer Molly]

That's code MFM@c r u n c h I.com the real clean beauty Goodbye.