Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 71: Put It In A Door

Summary

My Favorite Murder: Rewind with Karen & Georgia – Episode 71: "Put It In A Door"

Release Date: November 19, 2025
Podcast Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark
Episode Original Air Date: June 1, 2017
Theme: Revisiting iconic past episodes with fresh insights, commentary, and context, focusing on listener interactions, true crime updates, and the cultural shifts since 2017.

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Episode Overview

In this Rewind episode, Karen and Georgia revisit episode 71, "Put It In A Door," providing commentary, updates, and candid reflection on their own personal and cultural growth since its original release. The hosts listen back and discuss segments ranging from makeup tutorials on YouTube to intense discussions on high-profile true crime cases—the Netflix documentary "The Keepers" and stories of notorious criminals. The episode is packed with their trademark banter, gallows humor, listener tips, and reflections on evolving attitudes, especially about law enforcement, victims’ advocacy, and podcast culture.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Revisiting the 2017 Vibe and Introduction

• Karen and Georgia play back and comment on their famously loose, “planned but not planned” intro banter.
• Humor about being “newscasters” with Steven, the producer, whispering lines (02:50).
  • Quote:

    "Steven’s actually mouthing the words to us that we have to be saying right now." – Karen (02:50)

• Cat barf incidents establish the down-to-earth, gross-but-real podcasting vibes.

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2. YouTube Corner & the Early Days of Influencer Culture

• Both hosts reminisce about falling down YouTube “tutorial rabbit holes,” long before TikTok and the influencer explosion.
• Georgia finds herself captivated by male makeup artists and the social drama in that community (05:12).
  • Quote:

    "I got in a deep, dark hole of men doing tutorials of makeup… and it was just this whole world that I am not familiar with at all." – Georgia (05:13)

• They remark on how trends have shifted—what was novel then is now “your life revolves around.”
• Discussion of soothing hair tutorial videos and young kids doing makeup, along with positive reactions to gender nonconformity (06:38).

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3. Listener Tip: NYPD Safety Advice

Segment Begins: 08:51

• A listener writes in with a tip from the NYPD about dealing with unexpected police knocking:
  • Never open the door to “cops” you didn’t call—verify by calling 911 and listen for confirmation over their radio.
• Karen and Georgia joke about “Secondhand Tips From Those in the Know Corner” and muse on listeners’ penchant for storytelling rather than factual submissions.
  • Quote:

    "Secondhand tips from those in the know corner. Yeah, it has to—the source has to be factual and in the know, though. Please keep that in mind…But we're not going to do any fact checking." – Karen & Georgia (09:18)

• They reflect on safety, skepticism, and the evolving trust/distrust of authorities—especially noting the cultural shift in how police are discussed (28:32).

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4. Wish-Making Rituals

“Put It In a Door” Explained: 11:21

• Georgia describes hiding a wish inside a door—leading to the episode’s title.
• This digresses into a playful discussion of wish rituals, gratitude, setting low but realistic expectations, and the role of hope in personal growth (33:09).
  • Quote:

    "I think it's a thing of like hiding wishes. There's a wishing tree in Griffith Park on a path, and someone just puts paper and a pen up there and there's like a hollow in the tree and you just drop your wish in there." – Georgia (11:45)

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5. True Crime Deep Dive: Netflix’s The Keepers

Segment Begins: 13:40

• Both hosts praise the docuseries “The Keepers” and discuss the shocking true story behind it: the murder of nun Sister Cathy Cesnik, layers of sexual abuse at a Baltimore Catholic school, and systemic coverups.
  • Recounting of the institutional power of the priest, the vulnerability of the girls, and the bravery of survivors.
  • Commentary on the difficulties victims face: stigma, repressed memories, and insurmountable legal obstacles like statutes of limitations (21:19).
  • Anger at defense attorneys and church officials who protect abusers or attack victims’ credibility.
  • The emotional intensity and importance of survivor stories.
  • Quote:

    "It’s that thing of innocent and guilty... the person who is bringing the charges is a liar until proven otherwise. Which is just not..." – Georgia (23:16)
    "We'd rather you listen to this and us acknowledging that than this naked, you know, way back when." – Georgia (30:41)

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6. Cultural Reflection: Policing, System Change & Societal Naivety

• Reflection on how their 2017 commentary about law enforcement, police at the door, and trust in institutions now feels naïve after the events of late 2010s/2020s.
• Karen notes critics once accused them of being “part of the problem,” and acknowledges how her perspective has shifted (28:49).
  • Quote:

    "...it was hard to imagine what that meant. And now we know full well what it looks like and it’s on the streets—overstepping and out of control." – Karen (29:16)

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7. True Crime Stories Revisited & Updated

A. The Vampire Rapist: John Crutchley

Segment Begins: 36:46

• Karen recounts the story of John Crutchley, “The Vampire Rapist,” who sexually assaulted women, drained their blood, and is suspected in up to 30 murders.
• The survivor's harrowing escape and Crutchley's criminal history.
• Robert Ressler, legendary FBI profiler, becomes involved in the case.
  • Quote:

    “The police in Brevard county realize they have an advanced predator and this is not standard fare for them. So they call the FBI, and who shows up but Robert Ressler.” – Karen (46:14)

• Discussion of plea deals, Crutchley’s minimizing defense (kinky sex, SM “gone wrong”), and infuriating character testimony by his wife.
  • Quote:

    “In reference to this 19-year-old girl being tied down to a kitchen counter, raped, and having her blood drained, the wife says that this had been a, quote, gentle rape devoid of any overt brutality…” – Karen (58:45)

• Despite a sentence of 25 to life, Crutchley is released after just 11 years for “good behavior” but is promptly remanded to prison for violating parole.
• He ultimately dies in prison—and remains suspected in multiple unsolved murders.
• Update: Robert Ressler’s legacy as the basis for Mindhunter’s Bill Tench, continued influence on profiling (66:43).

B. Angel of Death Nurse: Janine Jones

Segment Begins: 69:27

• Georgia covers the chilling case of Janine Jones, a pediatric nurse suspected of murdering up to 60 babies and children in Texas.
• Discussion of hospital neglect, deaths hidden for PR purposes, and moving staff without consequences (“like the Catholic church moves priests”).
• The “death shift” and how her superiors failed to address mounting evidence.
• Recent developments: A secret investigation and retroactive justice prevent her release, thanks to the preserved medical records by Joshua Sawyer’s mother, Connie Weeks (93:12).
  • Quote:

    “She has… She walks away from that hospital with nothing. And so she keeps these records, and they probably didn't have them anymore. You know how those records things go.” – Georgia (93:19)

• Update: In 2020, Jones pleads guilty to additional charges, ensuring she will likely die in prison (100:32).

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8. Personal Moments & Podcast Culture

• The hosts reflect on pet stories, oversharing, and the communal, confessional nature of the show.
• Discussion on the draining experience of live touring, audience engagement, and the real-life impact of the MFM community (32:01).
• Both highlight their mutual growth in communication and self-awareness, sharing their recent experience of going to therapy together as a preventative measure (103:03).
  • Quote:

    “...now we're gonna do this really smart thing, like hand in hand to help to make sure that we don't wreck... there's been so many things where I've just been like, fuck this and walked away... I couldn't communicate with the person. It was too infuriating.” – Karen (104:24)

  • Revelatory insight from their therapist:

    “We can stop thinking about these things in terms of right or wrong and start thinking of them in terms of true for Georgia, true for Karen.” – (107:21)

• Light-hearted closing with “favorite moment from the week” (meeting a baby, considering a dog) and playful asides about personal rituals and life changes.

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9. Naming the Episode—Meta Moments

• Discussion on how the episode’s name could just as easily be "Secondhand Tips" or "My Favorite Making It About Me Moment" to capture the podcast’s blend of true crime and relatable personal storytelling (108:38).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sit back and enjoy the life he’s going to give me... as his parents.” – Karen, on supportive responses to young boy’s makeup tutorials (05:55)
• “Don't worry about it. It's gonna get real dark, so calm down.” – Georgia (13:34)
• “It's so hard to watch.” – Georgia, on The Keepers (24:38)
• “Gentle rape devoid of any overt brutality.” – John Crutchley’s wife, defending him in court (58:45)
• “I hope for you to live a long and miserable life behind bars.” – Connie Weeks, in her statement to Janine Jones (101:24)
• “We can stop thinking about these things in terms of right or wrong and start thinking of them in terms of true for Georgia, true for Karen.” – Therapist’s advice (107:21)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:26 – Nostalgic episode intro banter
• 05:12 – YouTube makeup tutorial rabbit holes
• 08:51 – NYPD tip for door safety
• 11:21 – Wish-making ritual and “put it in a door” explanation
• 13:40 – The Keepers documentary deep dive
• 21:19 – Statute of limitations and the difficulty for survivors/victims
• 28:32 – Cultural self-reflection on police and naivete
• 36:46 – Start of Karen’s "Vampire Rapist" story
• 66:58 – Mindhunter/Bill Tench and Robert Ressler
• 69:27 – Start of Georgia’s "Janine Jones: Angel of Death" story
• 93:12 – Story of Connie Weeks, Joshua Sawyer, and the importance of record-keeping
• 100:32 – 2020 update: Janine Jones’ guilty plea, victim impact statement
• 103:03 – Reflections on friendship therapy, communication, podcast partnership
• 108:38 – Alternative episode titles and closing thoughts

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Closing Tone & Reflection

The hosts’ candid warmth, tangential humor, and frank acknowledgment of their own limitations exemplify why My Favorite Murder maintains its devout community. They freely admit past naivete, embrace growth, and treat true crime—and their listeners—with empathy and intelligence. The episode underscores the value in both digging into dark stories and building resilient, self-aware relationships—whether with co-hosts, fans, survivors, or oneself.

Stay sexy and don’t get murdered!

Transcript

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Science does more. Find the right food@hills pet.com iheart Goodbye. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[A]

Every Wednesday we recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates and insights. And you're welcome.

[B]

Today we're recapping episode 71, which we named Put it in a Door for that reason.

[A]

It'll make sense later. Yeah, exactly. This episode came out on June 1st.

[B]

2017, so let's listen to the intro of episode 71.

[A]

Hello and welcome to my favorite Murder.

[B]

This is a podcast and that's Karen Kilgariff.

[A]

And that's over there, Georgia Hardstark.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

We're the hosts.

[B]

We're the hosts. This is all planned out.

[A]

Super. And it's very naturally delivered.

[B]

We're actually reading a teleprompter right now.

[A]

It'S one of those invisible ones, so if you were looking at us, you wouldn't be able to see it, but we can see the words that are scrolling on it.

[B]

Steven's actually mouthing the words to us that we have to be saying right now.

[A]

Yes. Stevenson. Down below the stage in a little half shell, the way they used to do it in the Operetta Times, whispering our lines to us.

[B]

Yeah, we have a little earpiece in.

[A]

We're like newscasters. But Steven is the director up in the control room.

[B]

Yeah. Breaking news. None of that's true.

[A]

Breaking news. This podcast is starting, in case you couldn't tell, in five.

[B]

That was a ruse.

[A]

The whole thing, it was a trick.

[B]

The whole thing has been a trick. I think my cat barfed on the couch I'm sitting on.

[A]

What? Can you smell it or feel it?

[B]

Um, I don't want to say feel it, but that's true.

[A]

But that might be the horrible truth.

[B]

Yeah. Well, off to a gross start.

[A]

Yay. How's it going? Really good. I'm getting over what I believe to be near death pneumonia, but is probably just a standard chest cold. It's probably the plague knocked me out. I didn't get to do anything I wanted to do last weekend or week. So I'm a little bit. Like when you don't see anybody for four days and then you're all like. Everything's real intense and you forget how.

[B]

To speak to people. You've only been yelling at your dogs, probably.

[A]

I will probably tell you the plot of a sitcom as conversation where it's like. And then she walked in the kitchen. It was so crazy.

[B]

What did you watch? Did you have a thing that you got through the whole time?

[A]

I did start watching a series on. I have a. One of those. I won't name the name of it because I don't like it that much. But it's one of those. We have all the British shows apps. So I watched a bunch of obscure British procedurals that weren't the best and also weren't the worst. So I. That's. Sometimes I'm in the mood for just truly mediocre television.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And I could just watch a ton of it.

[B]

Well, you know what I did the other night? I was home alone and I was scrolling. You can't decide what to watch. And my tv, whatever kind it is, it pops up all these options and one of them was YouTube. And I'm like, who the fuck watches YouTube on television? Like, it's a very foreign thing to me. The children. Yeah. And so I like kind of clicked on it to see like what videos they were like offering. And I got in a deep, dark hole of men doing tutorials of makeup.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, they were fucking famous. And they were talking about like the skin. Like they were talking to these people who watch it every day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're like, I know this thing happened. And people said this about me on the Internet, like they're stories. And I looked one of them up because I was like, what happened? And one of them said something kind of racist on accident. And it was just this whole world that I am not familiar with at all.

[A]

And now you're right front and center. Bring me that drama on that YouTube drama. Yeah. Did you see the one that's the little boy doing that insane makeover?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And whoever tweeted it, it was this great short video of a boy who maybe was nine or ten doing insane, insanely amazing makeup on himself.

[B]

Incredible makeup.

[A]

And the person that tweeted it said some fucked up thing like, yeah, like what would you do if this was your child? And all these huge famous people and all these awesome people and cool people wrote back, like Samantha Ronson, the dj, she wrote back, like, sit back and enjoy the life he's going to give me as like, as a, you know, business. Like basically he's gonna be rich and famous and he's gonna take care of me as his parents and like all David Cross wrot, throw my Bible away and love him unconditionally. And all this stuff where it's just like, it's this world where it's so funny when people get onto social media thinking that they're gonna like rally their troops in one way where it's like, no, that's not the world anyone lives in anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Little boys doing amazing like contour. Kardashian level makeup is standard fare.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And is welcome.

[B]

Have you seen though the little kids who do the bad ones?

[A]

No.

[B]

Like, one little girl like was like clearly obsessed with makeup tutorials. Cause she knew exactly how to do everything. And she might have been like 7 or 8. And so she just like sneaks into her mom's room and she's like whispering the whole time and like starts doing a makeup tutorial and just makes her face look like how a 7 year old would make think you put makeup on and it was just the cutest thing. And I think her mom comes in at the end and she's like, oh.

[A]

Shit, I gotta go.

[B]

It was just like, it's so sweet.

[A]

I love it. Also, I can watch because my friend April Richardson's obsessed with makeup tutorials and makeup herself. So there have been times where we.

[B]

She's good at it.

[A]

She's really. Yeah, she's. And she's all goth, so she's all about, like, I'm gonna wear blue lipstick and this red eyeshadow. But there was a night where we were started to watch some. It may have been, like, a Republican debates night or something where we got into something really tense and upsetting. And then at the end of that, she's like, hold on. And then just flipped on this girl that was just doing this insane, like, stupid Susie sue amazing eye makeup. And it's so soothing to watch someone. It's just like watching an artist draw.

[B]

A bunch of people on Twitter were like. Cause I tweeted about a bunch of people comment. They're like, try the hair ones. I bet the hair ones are so soothing.

[A]

My niece Nora is obsessed with the hair ones. There are two sisters. There's a whole family, and they're like, twins or something. They're twins. And then the mother's a hairdresser, so she'll get in there and be like, here's Elsa's hair from Frozen. And here's this, this, this. Well, now, these girls, they started when they were, like, 10 years old. Now they're my sister's. Like, they're like Nora's friends. That's like. She's been watching this since she was little.

[B]

Oh, right, right, right.

[A]

Yeah. So they get on there, and they're like, here's our first day of school. Hair. And then they show you what they're gonna do, and they show your mom how to do your hair correctly. Basically, it's the cutest.

[B]

I love it. Good for them.

[A]

God bless us, everyone. God bless us and good night.

[B]

Good night. This has been YouTube corner.

[A]

What do we have? Oh, you have that email.

[B]

Oh, I have an email to read to you guys.

[A]

A real good one.

[B]

It's a kind of a correction. It's a clarification corner. Is that a new thing? It's called Tip from nypd. I was just listening.

[A]

Maybe that should be a whole new area. Tips from the nypd.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everyone send in your tips. And this is actually a guy who sent us a tip or. No, a woman who sent us a tip from a friend who was in the nypd. So you don't directly need to be.

[A]

Secondhand tips.

[B]

Yeah, secondhand tips from those in the know corner.

[A]

Yeah, it has to. The source has to Be factual and in the know, though, please keep that in mind.

[B]

But we're not going to do any fact checking. No, that's on you. You don't need to either. Okay. Hi. It's really. It's really structured. There's a lot of rules.

[A]

It's more of a storytelling corner.

[B]

Yeah. Don't. Just don't. Okay. Hi. I was just listening to you guys explain that you should ask a cop to see their ID and their badge. In which we talked about recently. Wanted to share recommendation from a friend of mine who was a retired NYPD after 20 years. If a cop, quote, cop, comes to your door and you weren't expecting them, you shouldn't open the door. You should call 911 and ask the operator if they're supposed to be cop at your house.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The 911 operator should confirm with the officers, and you should be able to hear that confirmation over the police radio through the door, which is like, so intense. And I feel like most people would be like, oh, I don't want to be. That's intense. That's a lot of steps. If they aren't a real cop, you won't hear that and won't get confirmation, and 911 will know that there is an impersonator at your door, and it'll be an impersonator.

[A]

So even if you're like, oh, I went through too many steps, you now have a person that was trying to get into your house, and you now have 911 on the line.

[B]

And you know they're not full of shit. And it's like, well, I would be like, well, what if they break my door down? Which they can't do unless they have a warrant.

[A]

But then it would be the police. And that would mean. If they were breaking your door down, that would mean you were in there with like a hostage or something. I mean, like, that's. Yeah, they don't break your door down when they just need to come and.

[B]

Talk to you about something.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But if the guy. If the killer breaks your door down, then you're already on the phone with 911.

[A]

That's right. That's exactly right.

[B]

Also, it's not gonna happen. I mean, look at the fucking chances.

[A]

Get a new front door if it's that easy.

[B]

Yeah. Our old front door at my old place was like a bedroom door.

[A]

Was it really?

[B]

Yeah, it was like, hollow. I know this because I fucking patched over it. But I put a note in it first. But it was just a total hollow bedroom door.

[A]

And what note what did the note say?

[B]

It was like a wish. Oh. Which I don't do very often, but it came true. I think it said, like, I wish to be mildly successful and very happy. Fucking. I don't need to be like, extreme. I'm not asking for everything.

[A]

Wait a second. Did you just start a new trend of putting wishes inside doors and patching over? I mean, that's amazing.

[B]

I think it's a thing of like hiding wishes. There's a wishing tree in Griffith park on a path, and someone just puts paper and a pen up there and there's like a hollow in the tree and you just drop your wish in there.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

What would your wish be?

[A]

Tree or door? Because that's two different scenarios.

[B]

It could be tree, door, birthday cake, anything.

[A]

Oh, aren't you not supposed to say?

[B]

Can you tell? You could probably say the door wish.

[A]

I'll tell Steven and then he'll tell you.

[B]

It could be, you know, because Steven's such a gossip. Okay, how about because I just told the door wish. The door wish you're allowed to say, but the birthday and tree you're not allowed to say.

[A]

Oh, well, right now it would be to meet somebody that was exciting, that would make me not feel dead inside anymore.

[B]

Yeah. So you're not going to meet like a nice. What? I don't know. What's a job that a guy could be that architect.

[A]

Yeah, A trade. Like something that's just you're self sufficient and you're not. Your job isn't to judge or rate other people.

[B]

I figure I always thought mechanics probably were cool who like specialize in a certain kind of like old car and they're like the best in their trade. Or tattoo artists would be fun.

[A]

Tattoo artists would be very cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Just like one of those guys. You know, sometimes you see people fixing the road as you drive by. They've got like a hard hat and an orange shirt. Like, that's the hottest guy I've ever seen and will ever see.

[B]

And he's probably so down to earth.

[A]

Right, well, well, let's punch a hole in your door and let's get the wishing going.

[B]

Let's do it. Let's do it in my closet door, which is a mirror. Oh, that'd be fun. And then we have seven years good luck. Right. That's the.

[A]

This is a classic example of if you just tuned in, you have no idea what this podcast is about or why.

[B]

It's a what the fuck moment for all of you. Don't worry, we'll get to the murder.

[A]

Don't worry about it.

[B]

It's gonna get real dark, so calm down. If you're really into. And then we're gonna talk about the keepers.

[A]

So this is. We've been. People have been asking us over and over, obviously on social media to talk about these things. These things that come up that are true crime.

[B]

These TV shows.

[A]

These TV shows.

[B]

Or like.

[A]

Yeah, and the keepers. So I watched it. I did the thing where I started watching it in the afternoon and then stayed up all night watching the entire thing.

[B]

I think I texted you and was like, I'm about to start this. I think we, like, press play at the same time.

[A]

We did.

[B]

And then we texted at the beginning. And then I think we both stopped because we were both just so engrossed in it.

[A]

Yeah, well, I had to leave.

[B]

Oh, or you had to leave.

[A]

I stopped. We stopped talking, but then I had to pause it. And I was so mad. I had to go to a show, and all I wanted to do was come back and keep watching it. It's the most amazing series about. It starts off. You think you know what it's about.

[B]

Here's how I keep explaining it to people who don't know. A nun gets killed in the late 60s. She's a high school teacher. She's a wonderful person. You think that's what it's about?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then next episode and the rest of it is priest who was the principal fucking all the high school students. Did she get killed? Are they. This is exactly how I explain it. This is not how I explain it. Usually I've had two white wines before I explained it, and it's a lot.

[A]

And you're yelling over music in a bar.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm yelling at someone who doesn't want. Doesn't care about true crime.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay, so you go.

[A]

Well, no, I mean, it is all that. I think he was the counselor, though.

[B]

Okay, so. But he was definitely, like, the parishioner. I don't know. You tell me.

[A]

Yeah, I'll tell you all about it. So in the Catholic Church.

[B]

Let's start from the beginning.

[A]

They brought him in. So it's a Catholic high school in Baltimore, all girls, all girls high school. And they bring this guy in as a counselor. And so the girls get called into the counselor's office. And the way they tell. Okay, first of all, let's just say this. You meet these two women who had gone to that school, were taught by Sister Kathy, the nun that got murdered, and they are trying to find out her cold case how she got murdered, why she got murdered, what happened?

[B]

Because one of them is having these memories repressed. She's an old, you know, she's in her 40s. She's a mom and a wife with the fucking best husband. Am I wrong? He's like the best.

[A]

Yes. That's a different. I'm talking about this too that everyone's saying are the Karen and Georgia Murderino characters.

[B]

The actual investigator, the investigative. And they're the best.

[A]

They're the best. All you want to do is sit at that kitchen table with them and talk about this stuff.

[B]

Cat Soland said she's going to be the red headed one for Halloween. Like that's the best thing I've ever heard in my life.

[A]

That woman is so awesome. I wish I'd looked up her name. But there they're just basically going, we loved our teacher. We wanna know, we don't think it's right that she was murdered and that the case went cold. We wanna know what happened. And in their digging, they start finding out these things simultaneously but not knowing. Across town, the woman George was talking about starts having repressed memories start coming to her of things that happened to her and they're.

[B]

And when she breaks down crying at her table after she tells very detail. I mean, these two women who come forward who are the Jane does are so brave. I can't even handle it.

[A]

Yeah, because what happened to them, it's the thing. And this is the thing that happens. It's so upsetting when you watch these like Catholic church molestation stories. It's the absolute abuse of power and the predatory nature of these priests or you know, whoever the story's about. But in this case, this priest who would pick girls who he knew had single parents, he knew their parents had been recently divorced. He knew that they were maybe going.

[B]

Through some stuff themselves, maybe even already being molested. So it was like. Well, it's almost like if you in the wild had to be like, here are the steps of how children, how people pick children get molested. Because these people have free reign. And it's like point for point, the grooming and the threatening and these. It's just so awful.

[A]

It's awful. And it's the thing of back then because I think it was 1970, right?

[B]

I think it was like 68 or 69 when she got murdered. Okay, maybe so.

[A]

But basically in that realm, this was back when if a priest called you to his office, you just get up and leave class and go. And nobody around would go, why is he Calling you there. You don't need to be alone in an office with that man or whatever. There was nothing. Quite the opposite. Where they had complete power over where children went, what they did when they went there.

[B]

Like you were special if you got called to the office. Almost.

[A]

Yes. And. Oh, and the worst part is that priest found the woman who you were talking about. We should know these people's names. And now I can't remember. But the woman who broke down when she was telling that story, she went to him and in confession confessed to him that she had been molested as a child. And that's how he knew to pick on her.

[B]

And he said, she asked for forgiveness. And he was like, I don't know if you. I don't know if we can do that. And I'll help you get for. Oh, it's.

[A]

Listen, let me tell you this as a Catholic for a long, long life. Catholic. Sorry, did I yell? Stephen just pulled his thing off. But let me tell you this. The way confession works is you go into that box, you spill your guts, and the priest, who is there as a. As like a. What do you call that? Almost like the will of God, he's there to go. Because in the Bible it says you ask for forgiveness and you. You get it. So. And people know this now, but it makes me so mad because in that moment when he said, I don't know if God can forgive you. Ding, ding, ding, red light. No, that it's not yours to say.

[B]

Well, how scary to know that he forgives everything and accept this thing that you've done.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyways, I think the Keepers is one of the fucking best one documentaries. I am engrossed. I have 20 fucking minutes left and I almost don't want to get through.

[A]

It on that last episode.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. Because you don't want to let it go.

[B]

It's like seven episodes, I think, and it is just. Yeah. The reason I found the YouTube thing is because I needed a break because I was so fucking engrossed and depressed about it.

[A]

It's so heavy. It's so much to, like, absorb. But I will also say this. The person, I believe the director's name was Ryan White, the one name I remember. And kudos to him because in those interviews when people start crying, they must have felt a level of comfort talking to him about this and the way he conducted those interviews. And not only when he was talking to the victims did they really share so much of themselves and, like, obviously feel comfortable enough to express their real emotions, which is a Very difficult thing to do. But then, like, later on, when he was talking to that guy who is now in charge, the Baltimore police Chief, where he was just hearing these things and then going, yeah, we'll have to look. But you saw on his face, he was like, what the hell is going on that he's being informed about how these cases were. Were handled in the past?

[B]

And then. And then the interview with the guy who's the suspect. Yes, that old dude. Oh, my God. And the other thing that drives me crazy, of course, because this is our fucking thing that we hate, is that the only reason the statute of limitations isn't up on this molestation charge is because they have. It's because it's a repressed memory that just came through. So if they have to prove in court not only that they were molested, but that they just remembered it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which is. Must be impossible to prove in itself. But how sick is that? Yeah, how sick is that that if you didn't remember it later, you couldn't go after this? The statute of limitations makes me fucking ill. And I think someday we're gonna be. If the fucking apocalypse hasn't come already, we're gonna be.

[A]

I feel like that is changing in some places. I don't know about Baltimore, but. Yeah, when they all start going. And it's not just that school or just that specific priest, but there's a part near the end where a lot of people are going to talk about how that law needs to change.

[B]

There's a lot of victims, I think, who get. Who get their power back by changing laws, and I think that's a big one. Unfortunately, most of those are never retroactive.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which is such a. Again, it's such a fucking bummer, and it pisses me off. It's insane, Especially because, you know, with these sexual molestations and even rapes and all these things, it's like victims don't want to come forward right away because it's traumatic and it's opening them again. But once they get their strength and are older, but by then.

[A]

Well, the crazy part is everything, it becomes dependent on a person who's been victimized. It's really amazing, too, having done this podcast for the short amount of time that we've done it, like, how much I've come to learn and understand about the victims and the positions they get put in and how much is put on them. So it's like. So no one's going. I mean, not that no one is, but it was like. So it's all just depending on whether or not this girl who has been traumatized and victimized and truly like her entire childhood has been completely ruined and screwed up and she's just blocked entire things out and all this stuff, but it's all just on her shoulders. Nothing is on that fucking monster priest.

[B]

Well, it's that thing of like innocent and guilty. The. The person being accused, but the person who's accusing them is lying until proven otherwise. Almost. Which is just not. It's like, I know innocent until proven guilty is a strong thing in our society and it's needed and necessary, but it's that. That means that the person who is bringing the charges is a liar until proven otherwise.

[A]

Well, when you have those kinds of lawyers, the. The lawyers that were. The lawyers for the Catholic Church that were defending this priest. I don't know how they sleep at night. I don't know how they sleep at night. Especially after this. After the. I was gonna say podcast after this series where you're just like, the way they were arguing and the things that they did and said and the fact that ultimately the fact that they are supposed to be representatives of the church is just the ultimate hypocrisy and the shittiest. Just like, what are you fighting for? You gotta look at that. Like you. You're basically accusing these people of like they're gonna sacrifice their whole life and credibility for like. Cause they're trying to chisel money out of you. I don't think so.

[B]

They can't even come out as their real names or Jane Doe because they will be fucking attacked by not just the church, but people who are Catholic. It's just every fucking. Every episode, don't skip one. There's like a new revelation that's fucking incredible. But it's really hard to watch.

[A]

It's very hard to watch. And also it's pre Spotlight. So like, they were really the first ones that made an actual dent and a mark. And I remember, but I just didn't separate the cities. Cause I remember the Spotlight things happening in Boston, but these ones that happened in Baltimore, they. This Jane Doe, these two women really were the ones that came forward and like started making a dent.

[B]

At least I had never heard of it. I mean, it's an incredible show.

[A]

Gotta watch it. It's amazing.

[B]

Yeah. Next week on shows we love, we'll talk about Mommy Dead and Dearest.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I know we owe you guys.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

However the keepers came and it was just like, oh, my. All my attention is here.

[A]

Amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

How much longer do we have, Stephen? Seven minutes.

[B]

The episode over. Who goes first? First question Karen does this week. Okay.

[A]

Okay. And we are back.

[B]

So this has to be before the time that Elvis barfed on Steven's laptop. Right. And I had to buy him a new one. I think we were in Australia for that one.

[A]

That's right. We were away.

[B]

So it was a different cat barf.

[A]

Yeah, this one was more. I think the cats were kind of looking at the loft, like that's where they can really go and get a bunch of stuff out of their system. Right.

[B]

I mean, literally an hour and a half ago, I cleaned up cat barf. So there's no. There's no rhyme or reason.

[A]

Frank stood up in the middle of the night and did a. Several huge wheezy coughs, and then he coughed something up. And then we all just kind of. I was like, yes. Yeah, yeah, that's pets.

[B]

Is it bad podcasting to say the worst part now is of having a dog, is that he wants. He wants to eat the barf. That's not good podcasting. No one wants to fucking hear that. Right.

[A]

Is it off topic for the rewind episodes? Hard to say.

[B]

I think so. I've been doing this 10 years plus. I should know not to talk about that.

[A]

I mean, but it's part of our lives. It's part of the. How many items have we gotten, even on this tour, from people in the meet and greets with cat stuff?

[B]

Oh, my God, my cat now. Mo comes to and looks in my bag when I get home now from tour because I brought him so many catnip toys that are shaped like weapons.

[A]

That's right. It's part of the culture of this podcast.

[B]

That's right. We love. Speaking of.

[A]

Just like YouTube is part of the culture of this podcast. I love that we're talking about it back then, like, who would watch YouTube?

[B]

I know YouTube. And makeup tutorials. Like, that's now basically your. What your life revolves around.

[A]

Oh, my God. It's the. The TikTok version. The cleaner, way more influency. Yeah, I need to buy this right now version.

[B]

I've started scrolling past, like, my. Even my favorite dermatologists that I follow and like estheticians. I can't keep being told that. No, not that one. This one. No, not that one. This one. No, not that. I can't keep doing that. I've got them all. I've collected them all. If they don't work, then I'm fucked. That's fine.

[A]

There's just Nothing to be done. Also, I'm starting to get influenced by the D influencers, who are like, you don't need this.

[B]

Oh, yeah. And then you're like, but I already bought it.

[A]

I know, but it is kind of nice to see that, where people are kind of like, hey, look, this is like, they'll go through all the newest items at Sephora and be like, you don't need another glossy lip balm to go.

[B]

Or like, don't do it. This ingredient is not going to help you fix this problem. That doesn't work that way. You know, we're like, there's no such nature's Botox. Botox is natural. Like, it's Botox.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah.

[B]

I like the de influencer thing.

[A]

I do, too. It's a real relief. And we are true de influencers. We are nothing if not de influencers. So if you want to see us on YouTube, you can go over to my favorite murder video or search my favorite murder on YouTube, because we've got all kinds of videos up there.

[B]

Yeah. We have our own channel now. Isn't that exciting?

[A]

Yeah. Brag, brag.

[B]

I was cringing when I was listening to this because there's so much that's changed culturally since we talked about, you don't have to open the door to police and they need a warrant. And, you know, like, oh, that was 2017.

[A]

Like, so different.

[B]

So different.

[A]

And also, just it was the end of, you know, there's a lot of people and that. The kind of criticism that we used to get where you'd talk about the police or, like, you know, I would talk about, like, my family that was in the San Francisco Police Department or whatever, and people would be like, you guys are, you know, part of the problem. And it was hard to imagine what that meant. And now we know full well what it looks like and what it is, and it's on the streets, and it's this overstepping and out of control, and.

[B]

It'S just like, yeah, good intentions don't change things and don't really matter in the scope of things.

[A]

So, yeah, you know, they're gonna invade Portland. They're gonna invade. Portland is the newest insane blitzkrieg. It's just like, what's happening.

[B]

Yeah. Either we're living in a fugue state or we're living in a fucking fascist fascism state.

[A]

It's number two. It's number two. It'S straight up number two. I love that you started off with, like, is talking about cat barf, bad podcasting. And it's like. Or reminding everybody of just how we have so quickly slipped down this slippery slope. It's wild.

[B]

These are the deep cut people.

[A]

That's true. That wanna hear. Well. Cause it's weird to hear that and understand 10 years later how naive what we're saying is. I mean, that's. You could also do that with your. If you recorded your family dinners, the exact same thing would happen a decade later and you re. Listen to it.

[B]

But yeah, I mean, that's why we're doing these rewinds ultimately. And that's why it took us so long to, like, figure out how to do it correctly. Because we knew that shit like this would come up and we'd have to hear it and feel it and cringe through it and listen. And then the point is to correct it and to acknowledge it. So that's really what these. We'd rather you listen to this and us acknowledging that than this naked, you know, way back when.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Right. I think it's. These early episodes really do need, like, the director's cut audio guide because what the hell.

[B]

Yeah. Context. We totally get it.

[A]

Yeah. I just also have to say that I really wish I was being more erudite as I spoke. I am so goddamn tired right now that, like, the words are not coming to my brain.

[B]

Yeah. I forgot how exhausting touring is on your butt. Like, I. There. Every day we get back from tour, I sleep the rest of the day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like in a. Like, coma sleep. And I forgot. And I talked to my therapist about it and I'm like, I knew I didn't like touring. Like, I knew that and yet I did it again. And she blamed it on dissociation, which I appreciate. But.

[A]

But also there's more to it. It's like we over. We oversimplify it.

[B]

I love live shows. I don't like touring.

[A]

Yes, exactly. You know, ex. If we could only. If we could only have it brought to us. But it. And it's also. We're tired. Cause of the highs. It's not all lows. It's like these incredible emotional moments that we get to share with people, the entire audience, and then people face to face for a couple hours after the show. It's like, there's a lot going on.

[B]

It's very much like. Yeah. Like overstimulation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just peak emotion. Like, imagine being at a wedding every day. It's kind of what it's like. And like, you're like, you're not the bride or groom, but you're high up on the. You know, maybe you're the mother of the bride. So, like, you have a lot of duties, and it's exhausting. Now you have to do that two days in a row, come back, work, go back and do it two days in a row. Yeah, right.

[A]

Yes. It's. Then you start. You stop parsing the good and the bad, and you're just like, this is too hard or whatever, but it is. That's just the tired part. And it's like. It actually is. Is pretty incredible. And it is a thing where we wouldn't be able to know the truth about what this podcast means to anybody if we didn't do this, because what we see online and hear online is just a version of something. It's just a. We don't even know where it's coming from. We don't know the source. But when you have somebody standing there in front of you, like, holding your hands, and the girl who had the sign that said, I wish you knew we were best friends, and then she brought it through, and I was like. Like, that makes me want to cry. It's. That's the sweetest kind of loveliest idea.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's get into the part where you wrote a wish on a piece of paper and put it in your door.

[B]

Oh, my God, little Georgia. I just want to go give her a hug, because I. My expectations for myself were so low and so basic that I didn't even wish for anything bigger than that, you know, I never, ever have. I've never wished for anything more than, like, the here and now.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And, you know, the here and now and the knowledge to be grateful for it. And so I did that in that door, and it quadrupled, at least.

[A]

Yeah, kind of cool.

[B]

Yeah, it's very cool. My life is so fucking incredibly different than it was when we recorded this. But the same people are in it that I love, and everyone's pretty healthy still, except for Elvis.

[A]

Well, he came in unhealthy. He came in as an old cat, bless his heart. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty sweet.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

All right, well, then I guess let's just get into true crime. I mean, like, that's what we're here for.

[B]

That's right. All right, let's get into Karen's story from 2017 about the vampire rapist.

[A]

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[A]

All right, it's my turn. Yes, it's my turn to shine. Now this is a suggestion. This could Be one of our ones where. Because somebody suggested this to both of us. So I was actually thinking as I was writing this, I was like, what if Georgia saw this one, too?

[B]

When did they suggest it?

[A]

I can't remember. Maybe a week ago.

[B]

On Twitter, it's.

[A]

Ms. New Judy suggested it to both of us. And anytime people suggest them to us, I open it up and I look at the thing, and then I'm like, sometimes I'll go, like, I should do that. And I never think about it again.

[B]

And I.

[A]

And sometimes I go, I know that one already, or whatever.

[B]

I've started bookmarking them in my. So when I'm frantically on Tuesday morning going, what do I do? What should I do?

[A]

Yeah, you have those ones waiting for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, this one, when I opened it up, I immediately was so entranced and horrified that I was like, this is gonna be my next one.

[B]

This sounds fun.

[A]

So thank you, Ms. New Judy, for suggesting it. It's so good. It's John Crutchley, the Vampire Rapist.

[B]

Love it already.

[A]

Have you heard?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Clearly I didn't see that tweet.

[A]

All right, so this took place around. Thanks. It was Thanksgiving in 1985 in Malabar, Brevard County, Florida, which is so. Brevard county and Malabar. I guess I looked it up on a map so I'd know what I was talking about. It's right on the coast. It's on the east coast of Florida, and it's what is. It's 77 miles southeast of Orlando. So it's basically middle going toward the bottom, but right on the water. All right, so this is what happened. It's Thanksgiving, 1985, and a man is driving down the road, and he sees a young woman totally naked. Her hands are handcuffed and her ankles are handcuffed, and she's hopping down the road.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So he pulls over, he gets her into his car, and she's totally weak. She's covered in dirt. She's panicked. She points to the house nearby and says, remember that house?

[B]

To him, honey.

[A]

He drives her to his house where his wife is. They call the cops in an ambulance, and she gets taken to the hospital. And the doctors find out that 40 to 45% of her blood is gone. No.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes. So she has been. And she then tells them the story of what's happened to her. And it goes a little something like this.

[B]

One, two. One, two, three, four.

[A]

Okay. So she was hitchhiking. It's, you know, it's 1985. It hadn't been totally taken out of our society yet. She's hitchhiking down the road. A guy pulls over. He's wearing a business suit. He's wearing a suit. He looks. He looks like a professional businessman especially. And he just very casually is like, where do you need to go? I'll take you there. She jumps into the car as they're driving. He goes, sorry, I just have to stop at my house really quick.

[B]

Jump out and roll.

[A]

I mean, jump out then. Because you've now deviated from the plan. Only give them one deviation from the plan, I would say.

[B]

And then you're not familiar with your surroundings. I mean, not the. That it's either way. But then you're not, like, you're not.

[A]

On your way to the place you.

[B]

Want to be, Right? I know how to get there.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So they pull into his driveway. He invites her in. She says, no, I'll wait in the car. He says, fine. He goes into the house for a little while. He comes back out, and then he goes, sorry, I just have to get something out of the backseat really quick. He goes into the backseat behind the passenger seat, and then he wraps a cord around her neck and begins to strangle her. He chokes her out in the car. She wakes up. The next thing she knows, she's on the kitchen counter. She's tied down to the kitchen counter, naked. And she is blindfolded with tape so she can see underneath the bottom of it. It's not like material laying flat.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So she can see that she's on a kitchen counter, naked. He's standing next to her, naked. Oh, dear. And he has set up a video camera on a tripod. So he's videotaping it.

[B]

Oh, fuck.

[A]

He proceeds to rape her on that table. Then he explains to her that he's a vampire. And she feels a prick in her arm. And he begins to drain blood from her arm and drink it.

[B]

How? How? What? At that moment, is she like, oh, fuck.

[A]

Yeah. What level of. So you're probably in shock when something like that happens to you. But then I think things would just get real black and white. Like, you just be like, I need to get out of here now. How do I get out of here? How do I get out of here?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So basically, I talked through that and then lost my place.

[B]

Oh, sorry.

[A]

No, no, it's okay. So then he takes her and he puts her in the bathtub. And later that day, he comes back. He gets her. Takes her out of the bathtub, puts her on his bed, tranquilizes her, some strong drug and rapes her again, Then drains her blood again and drinks it again. Oh, my God. Brings her back to the bathtub. And the next day she wakes up and he does it again. And then he tells her he has to leave the house, but not to try to escape because his brother's there and he'll kill her if she tries to escape. She hears the car leave, and then she manages. So she's now had her blood drained three times.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

She manages to get up and to kind of stand and pull herself up to the tiny bathroom window that's above the bathtub.

[B]

Can you imagine how dizzy she is at that point?

[A]

I mean. And also, just like, the amount of times I say I'm tired when I have done fuck all, all day long is shocking. And then I think about things like this, where when you have to, like, dig from the bottom and, like, really power yourself through, it's like, I hope I'm gonna be able to do that one too.

[B]

I got up this morning and got really dizzy and woo, woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. Like. And I hadn't even done anything, and there's no blood stolen from my person.

[A]

You got 100% of your blood.

[B]

I have 100%. 110, probably.

[A]

What if Elvis is drinking your blood at night?

[B]

Oh, my God. That's kind of cute. Yeah.

[A]

That's why you're so bonded. Look, if she needs it, she pulls herself up. She sees that the lock on this bathroom window is broken, so she opens it up and she fucking pulls herself up. Somehow pulls herself up and shimmies out of this window and falls down to the ground outside of the window.

[B]

This is Mary Vincent level badassery.

[A]

Yes. It's amazing. And it's. Yeah, it's just pure. She knows that this can't go on. Like, this isn't. She doesn't have time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What I love is that she being told there's somebody that's gonna kill her, does it anyway, because she knows it's bullshit. It's fucking bullshit. So there's a cop in this. One of the shows that I watched about this guy, a cop who says, if you saw this window, you wouldn't understand how a person got out of it. Wow. Like, she made herself fit through a tiny bathroom window and got out. And that's when. And then she crawled to the road and finally got herself up. And when she started hopping, they said, a couple. There's different on murder. A couple of the articles say different things. But one says that a couple trucks passed her before anybody picked her up. And then finally that guy picked her up. Which also that how hard would it be to get into a strange, strange man's car?

[B]

I also have that thinking of. And this is probably from Goonies of like what if it was the guy coming home that was the vampire.

[A]

Yes, exactly right. You get into the car, the person that got you there in the first place, and it's like. To me that's like the worst horror movie of like. No, it's him.

[B]

Almost made it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But she makes it. So the doctors at the hospital say if she had stayed there one more night, she'd definitely be dead because you. There's so much blood gone that they kind of are amazed she got herself out of her. So she, when she got into the car. I told you that already. Right where she said, remember that house? Which is my favorite because it's just like she was on. She was like getting shit done.

[B]

So they go, this girl is a vintage Murderino.

[A]

Yeah, she really is.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Yes. She's taking care of business.

[B]

Yeah. She knows the signs and signals.

[A]

Yeah. So she, they go back to the house and they have a search warrant to go back into the house. So I've completely lost my place. You might have to fix this part, Steven.

[B]

Well, I'm impressed right now that you just like I see you and I'm watching you and this is all off the top of your head.

[A]

Yes, because I. It's so when those ones happen where it's like. It's not just a standard awful thing, but it goes into the world of almost a cult where you're like these people. When you see the house in the video, it's a white house on the side of the road. I wanna see it. That looks kinda nice. It looks like nice family lives there and inside is like nightmare town beyond anyone's. Like you wouldn't even know what was happening to you if somebody was draining and drinking your blood. Insanity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so police get a search warrant of 39 year old John Crutchley's home. His wife and child had been out of town for the Thanksgiving weekend. So he's a family man.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

When they get there, they find the video camera equipment that she described, but the tape inside had been recorded over.

[B]

Had he already come home and he knew she was gone?

[A]

Yes. Okay, probably because. So this videotape is recorded over. They also find and photograph stacks of credit cards in other people's names and they find a pile of jewelry hidden in the back of a closet, all women's jewelry. And they photograph that. So they arrest John Crutchley on kidnapping and rape charges. So the police in Brevard county realize they have an advanced predator and this is not standard fare for them. So they call the FBI, and who shows up but Robert Ressler. So Robert Ressler we've talked about a couple times, but he's the famous FBI agent who worked in the Behavioral Science unit. He worked there for years. He's the guy that developed ViCAP that basically enabled cops to start communicating on a national database, to put in the mos of killers so that uncaught cold cases and uncaught crimes that people could enter them in and go, is there anybody else that likes to drain the blood of young women? That's Robert Russell.

[B]

What a badass motherfucker. He should have, like, you know, B, A, M, F. You know, it's the last letters of your name when you're like, a doctor.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Or like PhD instead of MD.

[A]

Yeah, he's B, A, M, F, badass motherfucker. So they thank God, they call him in, and he immediately has a profile going for this guy. And he immediately tells the cops this is an organized serial killer who has definitely killed before. Wow. Because you don't have a person that's this comfortable picking somebody off the street and doing this crazy shit in his home. He didn't even take her somewhere neutral. He took her to his home. He's done it before.

[B]

This is the result of escalation, not the beginning.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. This isn't your first swing into, I think I'm a vampire. What should I do?

[B]

Or I think I'm a rapist. How do I do this?

[A]

Yeah, let me do what I want all the time. And he also. I'm pretty sure Jack Crawford from Silence of Lamb is based on him. He's the one. Robert Ressler's the one that wrote a book called Whoever Fights Monsters.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I was looking at that from another murder. There's so much information in there.

[A]

Yeah. It's supposed to be the best book. I've never read it, though. I'm gonna read it. That's gonna be my next book.

[B]

Me, too. Let's fight it together.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

Should we listen to it? I wonder if it's a good audiobook.

[A]

I like the idea of listening to it.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

It's so much easier.

[B]

It's so much easier.

[A]

I'm in my car. So much more Than I'm in my reading room.

[B]

I promise. Your house will be so clean as soon as you get into an audiobook that you're into.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's very true. Okay, so whoever fights Monsters by Robert Ressler. Let's do a read along. But he's also just the guy that, like, he puts it all together in that super interesting scientific way where it's the guy that's like, serial killers are 90% or more are white men between the ages of 28 and 30. Whatever. Like, that's this guy.

[B]

Yeah. Those are fascinating when they're so correct. Like he does this kind of business, he's in this kind of thing. He has his family. He has. Because it's just like.

[A]

And then they find the guy and it's like almost every time it seems like they match.

[B]

And I keep thinking like, no fucking way. That's crazy. And it's too simple. And then it's like. Exactly.

[A]

Ding, ding, ding.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Robert Ressler. A. So, okay. Excuse me. So they start, because once they bring him in and he tells them this, they start looking at missing persons cases around Brevard county, and they find that there have been four dead unidentified women's bodies that been. Have been discovered in that county in the previous year.

[B]

Wait, that didn't immediately ring some bells. I mean, I don't know how big that place is, but. Yeah, that's fucking insane.

[A]

Yeah. In the area they had in the one year, four dead women that they didn't know who they were.

[B]

I can't breathe.

[A]

Then Ressler notices that John Crutchley has moved a lot and changed jobs a lot. So they start looking at places he used to live. They look into his last known addresses and they see there's a number of cold cases involving missing and unidentified bodies of young women.

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

So they start basically gathering up all this information. So just as quick background, the saddest sentence that I've ever read on on Wikipedia is about this, about John Crutchley. It's the beginning of his Wikipedia entry and it's born to a well to do family in Pittsburgh. John Crutchley was a friendless child. A friendless child.

[B]

Oh, how can that be? Uh huh.

[A]

And also when you look at his picture, if you've ever seen the movie Rent, there's an actor named Anthony Rapp who has like strawberry blonde hair. He could play John Crutchley. He would have to get creep out, makeup done and probably lose a lot of like, not that he's in Any, he's perfectly fit person but he doesn't have the same exact face. But he's basically matches that. So it's.

[B]

He'll do it for a role.

[A]

But anyway it's, it's just. He looks, he has like panic eyes. He has dark eyes and blonde hair, which is scary.

[B]

Such a good descriptor. Yeah.

[A]

And also the really thick like 80s aviator glasses. Not sunglasses, but just glasses.

[B]

Glasses. The pervert glasses.

[A]

Pervert glasses, but not transition lenses interestingly enough. All right. Excuse me. So anyway, So he went to college, he got his degree in. Shit, Where'd it go? Oh, I don't have that here. He got his degree in. In physics I think or something like that. Then he went to graduate school and he got his degree in electronic engineering management or something like that. His first job out of graduate school was at Delco Electronics in Kokomo, Indiana. And he left there relatively soon after because there was an investigation made by the company into missing materials that they thought he had stolen.

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

So just right away, a lot of question marks about this guy. So then he moves to Fairfax County, Virginia in the mid-70s, that's where his mother lived. And he gets remarried. He got married in college and that marriage ended relatively quickly. So mid-70s he gets remarried and he works for several high tech firms in the D.C. area, including TRW, ICA and logicon processes.

[B]

I don't know what any of those fucking things are.

[A]

I mean how could we ever. So about this time when he's working at these companies. Several teenage girls in the area disappeared.

[B]

No.

[A]

In Fairfax, Virginia, a 25 year old woman named Deborah Fitzjohn went missing and her remains were later found in a remote area by a hunter. She was last seen in Crutchley's mobile home.

[B]

Oh dear.

[A]

Which I don't understand. If he's like an engineer at these high end companies, why is he living in a mobile home park?

[B]

Maybe it's a fucking the Lexus of mobile homes.

[A]

Oh true, True, true. From 1979 through 1983, Crutchley worked for a Washington based defense contractor and had access to Norfolk Naval air stations. And during that time a 23 year old Navy messenger named Pamela Ann Kim Brew disappeared from the base on March 25, 1982. She was later found dead in a car submerged at the end of a seaplane ramp. Her killer tied her arms behind her with clothesline and then tried to strangle her. There was a green ski mask and fingerprints that didn't belong to her or her boyfriend.

[B]

In the Car.

[A]

And then a 21 year old Navy clerk named Carol Ann Molnar disappeared February 6, 1983. Her decomposed body was found three months later partially buried under rocks of a seawall at the Norfolk base. And she had been strangled. So there's all these cold cases around the areas where he lives.

[B]

There's so many. And I've never heard of him.

[A]

Yeah, I know. Well, maybe because of this. So when the cops go back in for a second, they get a second search warrant and they go in to seize all that stuff that they had seen on the first time around. That stack of credit cards is gone. And that pile of women's jewelry is gone. They can't find it.

[B]

That's. But they should have taken it.

[A]

And then the tapes are. They can't find any tapes that have stuff on it.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Right. So. Because I think the first time around they're just like I, who, Like a.

[B]

Search warrant isn't the same as like a search and seizures.

[A]

Maybe, maybe there's got to be reasons and answers. But it, but they were. I think it's that thing of they're taking pictures of it, they know you have it, but then it's gone anyway. And it's that kind of like, well, you didn't catch me with it. So there's nothing you can do. Okay. So anyway, they were unable to find any hard evidence that tied him to any of those cold cases that I just talked about. But he was brought up on charges of kidnapping, rape, grievous bodily harm for the exsanguination and drug possession. And he got those last two charges plea bargained down in exchange for agreeing to plead guilty to kidnapping and rape. So they basically cut out the fact that he drained and drank her blood and the drugs he gave her so that he would just plead guilty and like they could move it along. And in court, the defense tried to present him as only being guilty of having kinky sexual tastes and an interest in bondage. They referred to the 19 year old victim as a Manson girl who was in fact soliciting him for kinky sex when they met.

[B]

How did I know that would happen? That she was into kinky sex and she wanted it this way?

[A]

Like, how could they know that?

[B]

No, how did I know that that was gonna be. That's how they were gonna turn it around?

[A]

Yeah, because that's kind of standard fare where it's almost like the most offensive thing that could happen is the way they blow it up so that now you're thinking about that instead like the idea that they call her a Manson girl.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where it's like it's 1980 fucking 5. Like, she's not a Manson girl. This isn't the Summer of Love is long, long over. And whether or not she's a sex worker, pretty sure that if she agreed to get into someone's car, having her blood drained out of her body and being held and repeatedly raped was in no way.

[B]

And like, you and I could be quite called, like serial killer girls because we're into like, you know, so maybe she's fascinated by Manson and reads about him, but that doesn't mean she's like, supports him. Like, I read about World War II, but it doesn't mean I'm into Hitler. Yeah.

[A]

But I don't even think. I think they were just using that as a way to label her. You know what I mean? Just to say she's basically throwaway. It's just a different way to say she's trash. Which is the bullshit part.

[B]

Part.

[A]

Here's a bigger part. Crutchley's wife testified.

[B]

I was wondering where she was.

[A]

Well, here she is and here's what she had to say. She says, this crime is nothing more than S M that got out of hand. And they ended up bringing in he stacks of three by five cards of different women's names and the S and M and bondage, like sex play that they liked to engage in.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Because he was. Apparently did it all the time. And many of the people who had been sexual partners with him testified that they got into it because they were into S and M. And then he would not respond to the safe word. And he ended up. He would end up raping them or attacking them in a way, but they felt like they couldn't do anything about it because it started out consensual for them and then turned to rape and there was nothing they could do. So they, you know, that's kind of an amazing thing is like they. To be in a world like that where it is actually all about this kind of the consensual agreement. And it's an act of faith almost. And then the only thing they can do is that when it turns out he's a serial killer vampire, they can be like, that happened to me too.

[B]

I didn't go to the cops or I did go to the cops. And they were like, wait, so you.

[A]

Answered this personal ad or whatever? Yeah.

[B]

It's like if you're a drug dealer and you get robbed, you're not going to go to the cops and be like, I was stealing drugs. And I got.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

Not that that's the same.

[A]

Anyways, yeah, anyway, so the wife comes out, she says that and then she. In reference to this 19 year old girl being tied down to a kitchen counter, raped and having her blood drained. The wife says that this had been a, quote, gentle rape devoid of any overt brutality. She wasn't fucking there. And that's what she is testifying in court.

[B]

Gentle rage.

[A]

It's insanity is what it is. Also, after the trial, this same wife told reporters that she couldn't quite understand what the fuss was since her husband was just, quote, a kinky sort of guy.

[B]

Sad, sad, honey.

[A]

So here's the good part, okay? When they sentence him based on Robert Rustler's testimony at the sentencing hearing where he says, this is absolutely an organized serial killer, we just haven't found the body. Were like coming in on the back end of his run. And you know, and basically, and all the profiling that he gave the judge in this case chose to exceed the state guidelines on rape and kidnap charges and sentenced John Crutchley to 25 years in life to life in prison with 50 years subsequent parole.

[B]

Fuck yeah, dude. Dude.

[A]

And then Robert Ressler calls this after the. After the sentencing's over and he goes to jail. Robert Ressler's like, yeah, he's gonna get out early on good behavior. That's how this goes. And that's exactly what happened. He served 11 years. 11.

[B]

What does 25 to life mean?

[A]

Well, if you're a good behavior, Right.

[B]

If you don't kill anyone in prison.

[A]

So he serves 11 years. He gets out in August of 1996 on good behavior. But. But the city officials of Malabar and both Malabar and Fairfax, Virginia, are like, you're absolutely not coming here. You can't live here. You can't come here. So he has to go. They put him in a halfway house in Orlando where he has to then live, serve out his 50 years parole, and begin to pay the restitution that he owes. And, well, the day after he's released.

[B]

From prison, I hope this is what I think it is.

[A]

He. He tests positive for marijuana and is arrested.

[B]

It's not what I thought it was gonna be. No, but that's great.

[A]

We're close. And because it's his third strike, the first being kidnapping and the second being rape, pot is his third strike, he goes back to jail for life.

[B]

Shut your fucking mouth.

[A]

So what I think happened is the cops knew, especially because of Robert Ressler. They're just like, this guy's gonna slip through the cracks because rape isn't that big of a deal to our legal system. And so they just stayed on him. They tested him. The pot that was in his system was from a party they threw him before he left jail. So he had smoked pot in jail.

[B]

What? Oh.

[A]

So.

[B]

But I wonder if, like, are you on parole yet in jail, though?

[A]

No, but you're. You're. If it's still in your system when you're on parole on day one.

[B]

Shut up.

[A]

You test. You test positive for marijuana. It doesn't matter when it got into your system.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You're not allowed to have it in your system. You shouldn't have had it at your party in jail, dude. So he goes back, third strike, he's in jail for life. And then In March of 2002, he's found dead in his cell with a plastic bag over his head, and he died of asphyxiation.

[B]

Well, but we don't know if it's suicide or not.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

But of note, and I think this is also. This is the fascinating part where I wish I was better at research. I wish I take. I took more time, and I wish there was. Like. I didn't really find that many. That many articles about this in particular, but I would love to know. When he was arrested, he was found to be in possession of a great deal of highly classified information about naval weaponry and communications.

[B]

What?

[A]

Unnamed federal agencies, other than the FBI, considered opening an espionage case against him. And his employer, Harris Corporation, was involved not only with NASA research and launch facilities at Cape Canaveral, but also with other naval contractors and subcontractors.

[B]

So he was stealing information, and that's why he got fired initially and sharing it with fucking the Russians.

[A]

They don't know. Probably you just rewrote that ending. I mean, what it is, is we know that he is a thief. Aside from all these other ways that he's a criminal, he has no problem stealing shit from these. And he is. He was a very, very intelligent and very successful, like, computer engineer.

[B]

Engineers are not stupid people. Across the board.

[A]

No. So that's why they were. You know, Ressler was saying, there's many bodies that are his responsibility that we just haven't found because he's so organized and he's been doing this so long. And his. Back then, when you moved around a lot, there was no way to trace anybody or anything. Also, in 1989, Crutchley's former lawyer stated that he that Crushley was prepared to confess to at least three murders and lead police to the burial sites. But that negotiations between Crutchley and the prosecutors fell through. So he just didn't do it.

[B]

What happened?

[A]

It was like he wanted too much or. I don't know. That's another thing that's fascinating. Yeah. So they think. I think that the thing on Murderpedia has victims like 0 to 30 plus in terms of murder victims. They just. They could associate him in all these places that he's lived with girls just disappearing, but they don't know for sure, dude.

[B]

And even if it's like, okay, a few of them were murdered by someone else, that's still an insane amount. It's not going to be half. It's going to be at least, you know?

[A]

Yeah, dude.

[B]

So say his name again. John Crutchley, the vampire rapist. Okay. Yeah, I had never heard of that one.

[A]

Isn't that nuts?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I thought he was going to get stabbed to death in prison. That's what I thought was going to happen.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Maybe he. Maybe he immediately. Like when he was in high school, he used to fix people's stereos for money.

[B]

Oh, no. Yeah.

[A]

So maybe he, like, just was one of those people that used all of his, like, his abilities definitely for other people.

[B]

Well, I can't imagine prison inmates throw just everyone a goodbye party with pot. You know what I mean? Like, that's not for the guy. Not everyone gets a cake and weed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For their goodbye. Yes.

[A]

He claimed that they blew the pot in his face. It was not his fault.

[B]

Yeah, my cat says that, too. Do you remember knowing people who did that to their pets?

[A]

Yeah. It's the creepiest thing of all time.

[B]

Horrible.

[A]

What's wrong with you?

[B]

No, he likes it. And we're back. Karen, any updates on this awful case?

[A]

Yes. So John Crutchley is suspected of being responsible for up to 30 murders, but there's never been enough of a concrete connection to those to charge him in those additional cases. Robert Ressler, the great FBI profiler, died in 2013. And the role of Bill Tench on Mindhunter, the Netflix series played by Holt McElhiney, is based on Robert Ressler. So it's kind of cool. Like, he has a very legitimate, you know, kind of like a way to acknowledge and stop a certain type of super criminal, like a hyper criminal that nobody really had their minds wrapped around when he first started working on it. And to Groundbreak in a way that's like, yeah, these aren't people that are.

[B]

Going to be rehabilitated or reasoned with in any way.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

What a whole different.

[A]

It's amazing. Yeah, yeah. And that's it. So let's get into Georgia's story about Janine Jones. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal.

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[A]

Goodbye.

[B]

Goodbye. Today I have an angel of death. So I've been looking up this specific angel of death for a couple weeks now, like, on and off if I want to do him. And it's just kind of. Eh. So yesterday I was at, like, a little Memorial Day gathering, and someone brought this one up that I'd never heard of, and it's in the news, like, today. And I. And so I looked it up, and I'm like, this is perfect. Okay, so this is Janine Jones. Do you know her? I don't know. She's the angel of death. So Janine, which everyone. I don't know if everyone knows this is a nurse or doctor or some kind of medical professional who kills their patients. Yeah. Okay, so Janine Jones was born July 13, 1950. She grew up in northwest San Antonio. She was adopted by a nightclub owner, and he owned the Kit Kat Swim Club, which, like, you know, is the best place to be.

[A]

Swim club?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, a nighttime swimming club.

[B]

I don't know if there's anything to even do with swimming. Please.

[A]

I want to go to this club. There's a pool in the middle. Who knows? Yes.

[B]

Let's open it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Night swimming. Lights off.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Neon shadows.

[B]

You know, it's so creepy.

[A]

What?

[B]

We just ate a Kit Kat.

[A]

No. Really? True joke. Such a delicious Kit Kat.

[B]

What are the chances from the Seattle.

[A]

Show if you gave it to us?

[B]

No. Oh. And they were Canadian. They. But they knew you love Canadian Kit Kat, so they got you can. Which are legit. Better.

[A]

So much better.

[B]

Okay, so he. Her. Her father managed the club, and her adopted mother, Gladys spun records at the turntable, so they sound like a fucking fun time. Awesome couple.

[A]

Was this in the 70s?

[B]

This was in probably 50s, 60s, 70s. So somewhere around. That doesn't say.

[A]

Her mom's the DJ and her dad's the club owner.

[B]

Yeah. And so, like, I think it's as a kid. So it was probably in the 60s. Like they sound fucking tits. Yeah.

[A]

Why aren't you cool?

[B]

They adopt four kids. They sound awesome. One of the brothers died of cancer and another was killed by the explosion of a bomb he had made when they were young.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Yeah. So Janine worked as a beautician and then she attended nursing school in the late 70s. She was super smart. She scored more than 200 points above the passing grade on her licensing exam. On her nursing exam. And so after school she began working as a licensed vocational nurse at Bexar County Hospital in San Antonio, which a licensed nurse is like not an rn, right?

[A]

I think it's a step below.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I could be wrong.

[B]

No, you're right, because they kept talking about that. So I think you're correct.

[A]

Yeah. RN is like the thing. My mom was an rn, so she was real judgy about medical assistance and stuff like that. Or she would get very offended when people only had medical assistance and not nursing.

[B]

Right. Or if they assumed she wasn't an rn.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So very few people ever did that though.

[A]

Yeah, she had a real RN feel about it.

[B]

Well, I think this chick did too, because a lot of people thought she was. But she was put in the eight bed pediatric intensive care unit. And the RNs basically said there were babysitters, which is like. And she was just like, fuck that. She knew a lot about anatomy and these smart things. So Bexar county would send its critically ill children there when they couldn't afford a private hospital. So they basically didn't have insurance. And they were like, you're off to this place.

[A]

Oh no.

[B]

Yeah. Which is just like, let's talk about healthcare, man. Let's talk about it for three hours. Let's get into it right now. Let's solve it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Janine worked a 3 to 11pm shift and when baby started dying on her shift regularly, the other nurses she worked with started calling it the death shift.

[A]

Oh, shit.

[B]

And the other nurses were like, what's up? Supervisors? There's something going on. But they didn't want to believe. Supervisors didn't want to believe that the seemingly super dedicated nurse was hurting her patients. So they didn't even look into it. But then during.

[A]

It's just like, I just don't want it to be this way.

[B]

She's really intense. She can't be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So then eventually, during a 15 month period in 1981 and 82. 40. Okay, wait. No, not yet. So during a 15 month period. In 81 and 82, 42 children died while undergoing treatment in the pediatric unit. 34 of those patients died during the 3 to 11pm shift.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And the word patient, like these are. Are critically ill infants and like children. And she had directly cared for 20 of those children. So the patients experienced uncontrollable bleeding, seizures, and breathing problems that were correlated to her. So in early December of 81, an infant named Josh Sawyer. Joshua Sawyer goes to the pediatric ICU after a fire destroyed his family's home. So he's an infant. He was suffering from smoke inhalation, and he's suffering seizures and cardiac arrest when he gets there, he's treated with Delantin.

[A]

Dilantin.

[B]

That's my medicine. That's a seizure medication, right? Oh, my God.

[A]

I was legitimately excited to hear my.

[B]

Sounded sarcastic, but I was like, oh, my God. No, that's. No, I'm excited for you.

[A]

That's mine. Thank you. Me too.

[B]

Do you also take Fena Barbital?

[A]

Fena Barbital?

[B]

No. Okay. It's not like.

[A]

Okay, that's old. Kind of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Mine's a little bit old, too. They want me to not take it anymore, but it's the only thing that controls my seizures.

[B]

Really Wonder if it changes. Like. Like when you change ages and you get used, you know, probably.

[A]

The brain is such a mystery, but.

[B]

It can't be fun to be like, let's try this one now. The same way the antidepressants, it's like, no, please don't put me on a new one. I know it's going to be months of fucking trial and error.

[A]

Yeah. And mine. My trial and error was I would have half seizures and spin in a circle like a dog that was about to take a nap.

[B]

Karen.

[A]

I did it on stage a couple times.

[B]

And you had to lay down, right?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Nobody knew.

[A]

Turning in the, like, looking I would. It was like I was needed to look over my shoulder.

[B]

Oh, my God. I mean, I want to cry for.

[A]

You for like 15 seconds.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Fucking insane. I've been through.

[B]

You really have. That's. That makes me so sad for you.

[A]

I love that. I am. No matter what the scenario we could be talking about children being murdered, I can still make it about me.

[B]

And that's what this podcast is, isn't it? My favorite making it about me moment.

[A]

My favorite meter. Oh, no, sorry.

[B]

No, that's good. Anyways, back to this infant. So he's on Thailantin and phenobarbital, and by his Fourth day at the icu, the seizures had stopped and he was breathing on his own. But his mother, Connie Weeks, at the urging of a friend. So she'd been bedside this whole fucking time, freaking out after her entire house burned down. And she's having a fucking seizure. No, panic attack. Baby friend is like, get out of here. She goes home to take a shower, change her clothes, like be normal. And also goes to see a movie, which is like. They want her to be distracted. Yes.

[A]

And relax.

[B]

Right. Which seems hard. I mean, so in the theater, watching the movie, the usher finds her.

[A]

No.

[B]

And is like, they need you at the hospital immediately. Because when she left, he was like, probably stable, right? Jesus, man. So Joshua's heart had begun racing a few hours after. After Joshua, Jeanine took over his care that day. Doctors were unable to help him and he died the following day after suffering two more cardiac arrests. She was also on duty at the time. Wait, she was on duty again the next day at the time of the death as well. And blood tests done between his cardiac episodes that were overlooked showed more than three times the therapeutic level of Dilantin in his system. Three times. So the hospital started private searches finally to determine if Jean, which I think she was called Gene, also was killing patients. So between May And December of 81, the last of the hospital's internal inquiries found 10 children in the ICU had died after, quote, sudden and unexplained complications. In all 10 cases, Jeanine Jones was present at the child's bedside during what the report gently turned terms the final events. So instead of okay, but the hospital was in the middle of a public relations campaign. Campaign designed to make over its image. And so it didn't tell the police of the findings. Oh, uh huh. Which were that. And here are the findings. Children were 25.5 times more likely to suffer a medical emergency and 10.7 times more likely to die during her shift.

[A]

Yeah, tell somebody, dude.

[B]

Alert the fucking media. Actually, I feel like the media is a great place to turn when no one will fucking listen to you for.

[A]

Sure, you know, Especially independently.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Owned a rolling stone, if you will. I don't know if that's. That's the end of Firestarter when they, they're like running, running, running from the government and the black ops and the, you know, men in black and all that. And they finally like, the dad has killed anyone I haven't seen in.

[B]

So I read, I read it when I was like 13. I was obsessed.

[A]

Yeah, it gave me nightmares when I read it. And I was like, probably the same age as you, but at the very end, like, they put the story of all of it into an envelope and drop it off at Rolling Stone.

[B]

That's the way to do it.

[A]

It made me so excited. Okay.

[B]

Anyway, that's when I was watching the keepers. I was like, you know, they start talking to journalists, and it's like, no one will listen to you. Bring all your evidence to, like, some badass investigative journalist.

[A]

How about that fucking journalist, by the way? I love that man so much. From the keepers. He is a genius.

[B]

They are so important.

[A]

Yeah, they're amazing. And there's a resurgence of them now that we all realize that journalism is very important.

[B]

Oops. We need them.

[A]

Yes. Badly.

[B]

So instead of letting everyone know In March of 82, they're all like, all right, you know what we're gonna do? Instead of telling anyone about Janine, we're gonna take all of those nurses that were on the ICU and upgrade them to nursing staff so they all get the fuck out of there. They take all of them. They say they're upgrading to nursing staffs to only be registered nurses in that section, and they kick all of them out. So all the nurses who were there get kicked the fuck out. They offer them jobs in other parts of it, but this is the way to just not fire her. And all of those nurses, including Janine, were given good recommendations, giving them proof.

[A]

That it was her.

[B]

Well, they went through this whole thing, and I think they did, but they were just, like, didn't want to have a PR thing.

[A]

This is very much how the Catholic Church would have acted. Yeah.

[B]

Right. Just move them around and move them around. Put them somewhere that they're not around children anymore.

[A]

Yeah. It's somebody else's problem.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. In her recommendation letter, she was described as loyal, dependable, and Trustworthy. Yeah. So five months later, she takes a job with a pediatrician, Dr. Kathleen Holland, in. In Kerrville. Kerrville, probably. Kerrville.

[A]

How's it spelled?

[B]

K E R R V I L L E. Kerrville.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is the part in live shows where they would start screaming at us, all of us, and we wouldn't understand a single fucking word. It's gotta go. So in a period of 31 days, as she's working there, seven patients in eight separate medical emergencies had to be taken to the hospital in a month.

[A]

Yeah, because here's the thing. It's such an obsession for her. I'm assuming she knows, like, this is a way smaller playing field. It'll be so much More obvious. And she does it anyway. She can't not do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's so crazy.

[B]

Well, you know, is it the thing of, like. What is the thing? Does she want to look like a hero? Does she have. Yeah, she wants to save the day. It seems like a lot, which is a lot of the reason they do that. Most people do that.

[A]

Right. I believe that's what it is. It's like. Right.

[B]

It's that they were naming some things. It's that it's putting the, quote, putting them out of their misery when it's like older people. Which isn't true because this other dude I was looking up just killed, like, people who came in for, like, a broken arm or some shit. Yeah.

[A]

I don't believe they're putting out their misery because I did that British doctor, I can't remember, but he did the same thing. And it was people who were not in Misery.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There was nothing wrong with them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He just liked killing people.

[B]

He liked the control and actually, you brought up Misery and Firestarter. That's weird. It's said that this one, Janine, is one of the. What? Stephen King wrote Misery when he wrote Annie. Annie Bates.

[A]

No, Kathy Bates is the actress. Annie. I can't remember the character.

[B]

That's one of my favorite movies.

[A]

It's so good.

[B]

We need to watch. It's so horrifying.

[A]

It's. She's the scariest thing in the world.

[B]

Did she win an Emmy?

[A]

Oscar?

[B]

Whatever. She should have won both, man.

[A]

She should have swept.

[B]

She should have gotten. What is it called? The Glad Awards.

[A]

No.

[B]

What's not. I didn't mean. You know what I mean. Listen, the Tonys. Yeah, but what's it called in 30 Rock when you win all of them? EGOT.

[A]

Yeah, the EGOT. Bubba's like, in 30 Rock.

[B]

Bulbus is like, get your shit together. Okay. Okay. Takes a job, 31 days, seven patients. The doctor in the office then discovered puncture marks in a bottle of. Here we go. Chlorine. Cyclo. Chlorine. Boring. Second in the drug storage where only she and Jones had access and contents of the apparently full bottle. Supposed to be full, later found to be diluted. So basically, she's a teenager taking the vodka bottle and out of the freezer. Is this you? There's some story of, like, that I. Some roommate was like, some girl at. A roommate took her vodka bottle. It fell out of the fridge and broke. No, no, no. The vodka was frozen, which it doesn't do. Which means it was all water at that Point there it is. Something ridiculous. Yeah, it's the best. Yeah. So basically she's a monster. So this drug, which I refuse to say again, is a powerful paralytic that causes temporary paralysis of all skeletal muscles.

[A]

Fuck.

[B]

As well as those that control breathing. So a patient can't breathe while under the influence in small children. Cardiac arrest is the ultimate result due to lack of respiration. One of those children at this location was Chelsea McClelland. She died on September 17, 1982. She was a 15 month old. She went into respiratory failure after Jones injected her. Was supposed to be routine immunizations. So you go in to get like cholera or whatever the fuck they immune you for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she fucking dies.

[A]

A powerful.

[B]

It's usually used as general anesthesia for surgical patients. So she's charged with Chelsea's murder, but the prosecutors decided not to file charges against her in the death of any of the children she was suspected of killing because they thought that the 99 year sentence that she got. She was found guilty. 99 year sentence. Plus she also got a 60 year sentence for giving a four week old Rolando Santos a large dose of the blood thinner Heparin. But he survived, but he got. She got another 60 years. And they're in 1984 and they were like, well, she'll never get out. So we don't really need to prosecute her for any more people. She'll be in jail for the rest of her life, Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nope. No. No. All right, so Today's what, the 30th? We decided today is the 30th. Okay.

[A]

That's the truth.

[B]

So on. Oh, yeah. I mean, I guess, you know what I mean? We decide now.

[A]

We decide.

[B]

No, we didn't tell you. On May 25th of 2018. So a year from basically a couple days ago. She's 66 years old. She's supposed to be eligible. She's been eligible for parole since 89, but is repeatedly denied because she's a monster. But she was set to be released from prison after serving one third of her sentence. So in a year.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. And it's because. Here we go again with good behavior. Texas created a law called Good time. The Good Time law, which is. Which is not a good time probably for the victims. Which was created to combat prison overcrowding. Allows inmates convicted of a violent. Of violent crimes between 77 and 87 to be released if they have a record of good behavior. Like let the dude who got caught with some pot go. Yeah, that's just it, you know. It's.

[A]

That's just it.

[B]

You had meth in your pocket that you were using. It wasn't enough to sell. Who. Fuck let him out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who cares?

[A]

Right? Compared to the people who clearly have a mental illness compulsion to. To what do you exact bodily harm on their fellow man who have no.

[B]

Empathetic tendencies whatsoever, who. If you're. I'm sorry, but if you're over the age of 21 and you commit murder, you know, you've thought this through in some point at some. You know, you're not going. The rehab thing is so hard to think when it's people who have murdered, systematically murdered people in cold blood and.

[A]

Systematically murdered infants, thinking that you were.

[B]

In charge of that.

[A]

Your nurse. It's part of your. I don't know if nurses take an oath or. I bet they do. That's part of it. It's part of going, I'm a medical worker. I'm gonna act like I'm a stand in family member. Watching your child while your child is at the most vulnerable point it could possibly be.

[B]

It's almost. Yeah, it should be worse when you agree or you are supposed to be taking care of someone or making them live. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because the thing is, we know she's been in jail, say for 30 years. Whatever it is she gets out of jail, that thing that she has has in probably no way been addressed of I need to be. It's just her life is dedicated to making. Just like serial killers, they kill. That's what they do. They have to do it.

[B]

And then it's that, Char, you have to be a charming manipulator to get away with this thing for so long that I don't care how much therapy you've had in prison. You're a charming manipulator. You're not gonna fucking exorcise that out of someone. I don't care how good of a therapist you are.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I don't care. And I don't care. Maybe you're better. Maybe you're not like that anymore. You fucking still have to pay for the crime you committed. Yeah, I don't care if you're a fucking saint.

[A]

Well, and also it's the thing of trying to get things. Because there's so much backlog in the system. They're just trying to get things moved through. But it's like, you know, and hopefully this. When like they come upon this for like the parole board or whatever that's taken into consideration. This isn't a person that just like accidentally Hit somebody with her car or intentionally hit somebody with her car in a crime of passion. This person who systematically murdered babies.

[B]

It's also that thing of like. Yeah, so the parole board said no because they looked at the evidence and realized time and time again that she shouldn't be out. What is the point of our judicial system who gave her 99 years for this horrible crime if you're just gonna override it?

[A]

It. Yeah.

[B]

You know, like it makes people not as scared to commit crimes because it's. Listen, hey, listen, listen, look. And listen, listen, look. Here we go. Okay, so good behavior because of, because of this Brexit. Brex. Our county prosecutors were like, hell no. A couple years ago, I think they found out about this. They launched a secret investigation into her time as a nurse.

[A]

Nurse.

[B]

And when they realize that she's going to be released, they believe that she may. They estimate that she may have killed as many as 40 to 60.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Suspicious deaths under her watch.

[A]

She killed your grammar school class of children? I had 63 kids in my class.

[B]

Okay, so. Okay, I thought you meant in your. Not in your own class, but like in multiple classes.

[A]

No, no, no. In like grammar school.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm just thinking like our sixth grade class had 63 kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It would be as if she went through and systematically secretly poisoned every single one of them.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

As babies.

[B]

As babies.

[A]

I'm trying to put out there. I'm. Put a metaphor out there that only I can relate to.

[B]

No, that's a good one. Because I wouldn't have known what to do, like what to say. Like they killed the amount of people who were at the point yesterday. Like. No, but that doesn't make any sense.

[A]

Right. Yours is better. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So on. So on May 25, a couple fucking days ago. So 2017, Brexit County District's attorney's office announced that she had been charged in the 81 death of 11 month old Joshua Sawyer, the kid who got killed because his house burned down. So they went back to that poor kid and charged. They charged her. So I think she's just going straight to the other county.

[A]

They're just basically transferring her to another prison and she's not getting out.

[B]

So she would have gotten out and she won't. So. District attorney Sam D. Millsap Jr. Oh, Ronnie's nephew. Who's that?

[A]

Well, it's a deep cut for all the middle aged people. Ronnie Millsap is a country singer. Nope.

[B]

Oh, you've told me about him.

[A]

No, I have.

[B]

Who's the guy that you Told me about who was in Mickey Gilly. Yeah. Who was in the show we like? Oh, Fargo.

[A]

Mac Davis. Okay, that's Mac Davis, but actually, same school, same like class.

[B]

Got it. Someone, some middle aged is losing his mind right now that you said that.

[A]

Perhaps Ronnie Millsap himself.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Maybe Ronnie Millsap was blind. That's something we could look up.

[B]

But why? I mean, why do we. We're not worried about facts right now.

[A]

This isn't a country music podcast. Yeah, listen. Sorry.

[B]

Start your own podcast about country music if you really want to know these facts.

[A]

You're so goddamn interested in his life.

[B]

So he. This dude, Millsap Jr. He's six months into an investigation of the county Bexar County Hospital, which is now called. Called. Nope. Okay. Which is now called University Hospital of San Antonio. And everyone's like, I went there. So they changed their name.

[A]

Yeah. Smart move.

[B]

So he is looking into why no one stops all of these. So, like, holding them accountable.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Thank God.

[A]

Yes. Oh, that's a bad one.

[B]

He says he's focusing his criminal investigation not only on Janine, but also on that hospital for its inactions. So Josh Sawyer's death, this sweet kid. One of the reasons they're able to prosecute it now and why they have such strong evidence is because Joshua's mother kept her son's medical records for more than three decades. And she said, it's all I had left of Joshua. She said everything else was destroyed in the fire.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

I'm crying. Are you crying?

[A]

I don't know why that gets me so bad.

[B]

So sad.

[A]

It's so goddamn sad.

[B]

She has. She walks away from that hospital with nothing. And so she keeps these records, and they probably didn't have them anymore. You know how those records things go.

[A]

Exactly Right. And also, it's just that fucking hospital put their own image above human life, which is the opposite reason to have a hospital.

[B]

And it's somehow so much worse that it's. It was children, children, children. It's almost worse. I mean, no one is better than the next. But it's so heartless.

[A]

It's. Well, they just have. No. They couldn't even fight. It's not like somebody. They could go, what are you. Why are you putting that needle in my arm or anything? It's just like they can't even say.

[B]

I don't feel well. You know, it's this thing of. Yeah, it could have been stopped at any time had anyone taken the time to do their job, which is to protect the patients, not the Hospital. It's like the people who could have investigated what was going on there, who worked there, they didn't own the hospital. It's not like they needed to worry about the image of the hospital.

[A]

Right. And also, I mean, it's a fucking hospital. It's not like you just started a PR company. People are going to go to the hospital. They have to. You fell off a ladder, you have a blade of, you know, a knife in your arm. Whatever it is. It's not like you're like, oh, don't go to that hospital. They had some issues.

[B]

I went to Hollywood Presbyterian because I needed help immediately in that place. I don't want to talk shit out of school and on a podcast.

[A]

But that's what you're doing.

[B]

That's what I'm doing. All I'm going to say is, don't go there.

[A]

Bad news?

[B]

Very.

[A]

Is that the one that's on Western?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Vermont. Vermont. On Vermont, Yeah.

[A]

Down by the Wendy's, right?

[B]

Yeah. Across from the Wendy's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That everything is. Shut up, Stephen. That's what. That's how I measure all things.

[B]

Wendy. Closest.

[A]

Wendy's.

[B]

Yes, that's the closest. But I knew immediately. Yes, yes.

[A]

Do you do that, too?

[B]

Well, I've been there.

[A]

I mean, there's nothing worse when you're in, like, when you're in a bad spot. And it's so weird because having a nurse mom growing up, when we would have to go was like, my mom worked for Kaiser, so we just always go to a Kaiser, like the. We never didn't have insurance. We never didn't have coverage, all of that stuff. And my mom used to harp on me when I didn't have insurance after they took. Took me and my sister off. Theirs were like, you're adults, get your own. And I didn't, of course. And then she'd be like, you have to get insurance. And I'd just be like, what for? Why? Well, then when I had my seizures, I didn't have insurance, and I went to Harbor UCLA in Torrance, and it was horrifying when you. You don't want to go to a county hospital without your insurance.

[B]

Well, look and listen, they're in poor. They're poor neighborhoods that Hollywood, you know, Western and Fountain, is not the center of Beverly Hills.

[A]

And all the bad shit that happens in that neighborhood, people just get dumped at those hospitals. It's not that they're bad people. It's not that the people that work there aren't talented. It's that they're the ones that are like, almost like. It's Frontline style, where they're just seeing tons of stuff all the time. It's rough.

[B]

Listen. Burbank Urgent Care. Shout out.

[A]

Hey.

[B]

So that's the story of Jeanine Jones. She's the angel of Death.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And thank God they fucking swooped right in, right in time and kept her off the streets. Because, you know, like, yeah, they'd be like, you can't be near children. But that shit falls through the cracks.

[A]

Also, then she just is gonna do some. She's gonna, like, start. This is my theory. But she would then start driving for Meals on Wheels, and suddenly people. You know what I mean? She would. She doesn't need a hospital to poison people to death.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

She would just go do it some other way because it's a compulsion that hasn't been addressed, I'm sure. Or fixed in her in any way.

[B]

I wonder where it came from, because it feels like there's, like. Maybe it's her brother's dying. Maybe it's when she was little. I mean, there has to be. And she was married and had two children.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Forgot to mention that. Like, so she had babies at one point.

[A]

Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Something happened, like, in her life. Because aside from a mental illness, obviously, when it's. I've read a lot more about. Less about angels of death, because they just. I find that they're so straightforward that.

[B]

It'S like, oh, yeah, that's why the other one, I was just like, I don't know if I can do that. It's just kind of.

[A]

It's just plain sad. But it's interesting because it's very similar to the Munchausen's by Proxy, where. And that's the real one, where oftentimes it's mother poisoning their children. And they get so much out of doctors and staff members and everybody worrying about them, pitying them, they become the focus of the attention.

[B]

Well, the thing, too, is that she was saying that the first patient she ever had at ICU was an infant who died on her watch. And it broke her heart. But I wonder either she killed that infant or the attention she got when that happened, having been. And this child's nurse at the time was so fulfilling that she couldn't stop because maybe, you know, she had just been a perfectionist before that, or maybe she had just. You know, it's that thing of how some people love having the. The approval of people who. Above them, they're, you know, so, like, the doctors and RNs were, like, commending her for how she dealt with it and comforting her. And comforting her. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's so fascinating.

[B]

Have you seen that horrible video in. They put a video camera hidden in. No, don't wanna.

[A]

Can't say the word. Slowly so I can stop you.

[B]

I'm not gonna say it. The kid survives. The kid survives.

[A]

Is it a babysitter that abuses the child?

[B]

No, it's a father.

[A]

Cause that one I can still see in my head, and it's so horrible.

[B]

Me, too. And I can't watch those. No, a father. They put a video camera in there because they knew something was going on in the hospital. In the hospital room where the little girl was sick, he. He puts his body on top of hers and tries to stop her from breathing, and a nurse rushes in and catches him and he gets arrested because he had Munchausens. Yeah. He was making her sick.

[A]

He's trying to smother her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

I'm sorry. Are you crying?

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Why not?

[A]

I can't.

[B]

I do have.

[A]

No, I used it all up on that. The idea that the only thing you have left of your child is medical records is just like.

[B]

No, but. But how triumphant for her.

[A]

Well, thank God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because then it's. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Half those podcasts we listen to that are like investigative reporting is them trying to get whatever basic medical records or crime records. What are they called?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That they can't. That no one will give them.

[A]

That's all of the keepers is them going, I'm sorry. How do you not have these records anymore? How do they not exist. Exist anymore?

[B]

There's a lot of floods in basements of police stations.

[A]

So much flooding.

[B]

There's a. Flooding is a. What's it called?

[A]

It's a common problem.

[B]

Yeah. Or it's an epidemic.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Anyways. Well, it's been.

[A]

Well, that was great.

[B]

That's been two hours of my favorite murder.

[A]

Wow. Really?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Okay, we're back. Are there any updates on this case?

[B]

Yes, actually. In 2020, as part of a plea deal, Janine Jones pled guilty to murdering Joshua Sawyer, quote, with a deadly weapon, and received a life sentence. This required her to serve 20 years before becoming eligible for parole. So with credit for time she'd already served awaiting trial. This would keep her behind bars at minimum, until December of 2037, when she would be 87 years old. So she might get out then. I mean, who the fuck knows? And in her victim impact statement, Connie Weeks, Joshua Sawyer's mother told Jones, quote, I'm glad today that you will never see daylight as a free woman. And your life will end in captivity for killing my son. I leave you with this. I hope for you to live a long and miserable life behind bars. Goodbye. End quote. Which is. Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So powerful.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, well, then it's time to wrap up this episode.

[B]

Oh, yeah. So. Because that was horrible. And actually, I did not think this through of what my thing was from this week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, you go first.

[A]

No, you said you had one.

[B]

I do. And I didn't think it through. Totally didn't.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I met my friend's brand new baby yesterday. I swear to God, I didn't do that on purpose. And for a minute, I thought I had done a different murder. I was doing a different murder.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Is it Kurt's baby? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, Kurt and Lauren. I didn't go because I was sick.

[B]

I would have passed harassed. You didn't come in.

[A]

No, I mean, I didn't be around a baby and have this disgusting cough.

[B]

You should have coughed in the babies. So I went to my friend Karen Lauren's house yesterday. They have the wedlock podcast on Audible. It's great. Everyone listen. And this baby, it's like two months old. And it's so weird to see your friend's face in a baby. And I kind of. And the baby's laughing with me. And this baby is so chill and sweet and has these, like, dark gray, blue eyes. I mean, she's darling. Her name's Olive. And I was, for a moment, like one of these. So I turned to Vince and I said, a dog or a baby? Pick one. So I think we're gonna get a dog.

[A]

That's exactly the way you should make decisions like that.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Ultimatums.

[A]

Yeah. You can get a dog with blue eyes.

[B]

I can get a baby dog.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. Oh, that's awesome.

[B]

Yeah. With.

[A]

I can't wait to see that baby.

[B]

Ugh. Cutie.

[A]

I mean, we did mention it, I guess. I will say this. We did mention it very briefly on the minisode that you and I went to a therapy session together. And I have to say, it just made me. First of all, it made me so happy because we both know how to be in therapy. So we cut to the chase really fast.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Of just, like, this is what we need. We have to, like, whatever. But it made me feel so fucking mature. And it's not like there's a problem we have. We're trying to prevent A problem because we are in a very. We're in rare air. We can't go to anybody and go, hey, have you ever gone through this before? Because no one that I know has in this specific way. And we basically, of course we have Stephen, but we just have each other. Well, we signed Chris.

[B]

We've argued in front of Steven before, sweetly with his face pretending to write in the.

[A]

Where we just. It's just this. It just felt like such a. Like we were just getting at the problem without being. We were just like, let's solve this.

[B]

And we both are self aware enough to know that we have fucking issues that make us hard. Both of us hard. I know. Makes me a hard person to deal with.

[A]

Same here.

[B]

And I am aware of that and totally okay with that. And I want nothing more than to be a better person and improve myself.

[A]

So instead of it feeling like, oh, we had to go to therapy, it felt like, now we're gonna do this really smart thing, like hand in hand to help to make sure that we don't wreck. Because my thing is just like, there's been so many things where I've just been like, fuck this and walked away. Because it was too. I couldn't communicate with the person. It was too hard, it was too infuriating.

[B]

And I've done it. I've done it and I haven't walked away. And I have serious issues from that and I don't wanna go through that again. I'm older and wiser and the thing that I really love about both of us is that I could. Well, I could say. And you could say we should go to therapy. And it wasn't an insult and it wasn't cutting you down or cutting me down. It was just. And it's the same thing with couples. It's couples relationship therapy.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Which is like, let's do this before it gets fucking horrible. And we have to backtrack for years.

[A]

Because it's just such a fascinating thing. First of all, I'm deeply in love with our therapist.

[B]

My God, he's amazing.

[A]

It was like. Like a soap opera star came to be our therapist. Yes. Like, he's beautiful. And then he would just go, like, we'd start talking and I could hear us telling the story the way we told it to each other, the way like, here's how this story goes. And he'd go, I'm gonna stop you for a second. And then instead of talking about the plot line, we would have to talk about the feelings that the actions brought up, which is What I hate and what I always get called on in.

[B]

Therapy because the actions don't matter.

[A]

Exactly. Right.

[B]

It's what you were feeling when you were doing them and see what it.

[A]

Brings out in you.

[B]

He's making you share yours. So you are understanding your feelings, but what he's really doing is making you explain them to me and me explaining them to you, which totally helps.

[A]

So there was, like, genuine revelations where I was like, oh, shit. Like, we would have never talked about this while we were having a fight about this other thing where it's like, I just appreciate it if you do this thing or whatever. And instead, what we're just doing, we're learning our backstories so that we can go, oh, this is that thing she does.

[B]

And so next time we get in a fight, if I do this thing, this is why she's responding to me this way. And you know what I love and I hate when they do this is. Well, you start telling them you're feeling. Tell her you're supposed to turn to me and tell me. And I'm like, I don't want to.

[A]

He didn't make us do that.

[B]

No, he didn't. Which I appreciate. I'm sure he will eventually, but I think he knows right now it's too hard to do that.

[A]

Well, and also. Cause we kind of were. That's also. I guess the part I loved is you are such a good partner in that way. Thank you. Where, like, when we were talking about this stuff, at no point was there any shutdown, was there any. It was just like, we started to be like, well, this is what, you know, I'm worried about. Or this is whatever. Like, this is the bad pattern we're in. And we both brought it together.

[B]

And both of us were like, oh, yeah, I can understand that. Because we've both been in therapy for so long. There's no, like, both. And I've been in couples therapy. Like, I understand how it's supposed to work.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which is great. And there's no reason for you to be like, that's not true. Because that's. And he said at the end. Which we should tell people this.

[A]

Yes. The best.

[B]

Which. This fucking changed my thought process so much.

[A]

Me, too.

[B]

I'm gonna say it wrong. You say it.

[A]

He said, we can stop thinking about these things in terms of right or wrong and start thinking of them in terms of true for Georgia, true for Karen.

[B]

Yeah. So what you think is right is just your truth. And it doesn't mean you're right or wrong.

[A]

Or wrong like that. We can just practice moving. There's truth for you. It sounds so like. It's not like we were having these huge problems. It's like we would get. We would. Everything would be great. And then we tried to discuss one area, and so we were like, let's fix the area before the area becomes. Spreads to the rest of everything else we're doing.

[B]

It's like getting a bikini wax, preemptive bikini wax.

[A]

Before it gets down to your knees.

[B]

Before you have to go to the pool the next day and you're like, why didn't I get a bikini wax? So you try to do it yourself and your legs are red.

[A]

Yeah. Ingrown hairs all over the place. No, you gotta get some Russian lady to do it for you.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

At Burke Williams.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Guys, guys, that was an overshare for sure.

[B]

No way. There's no such thing.

[A]

All right, well, thanks for listening.

[B]

The overshare was the bikini wax or the therapy?

[A]

No, just.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

No, nothing.

[B]

I think the bikini wax was an overshare.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

But not the.

[A]

I thought it was a good metaphor.

[B]

I think so.

[A]

I support you. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, we're back.

[A]

All right, so the original. As we spoke about earlier, the original title of this episode was Put it in a Door. So if we're naming it today, what should we call it?

[B]

We would maybe call it Secondhand Tips, which is what we started getting for this podcast, which I appreciate. And then it could also be called my favorite making it about me moment. Yeah. That's what we do. That's what we do here at my favorite murder.

[A]

It's what we do. I think it's what everybody does. What's so relatable about us?

[B]

Totally speaking of us, let's let us say goodbye in 2017. Thanks for listening to Rewind. Thank you guys for listening. You're all fucking sweet baby angels.

[A]

Thanks for your support.

[B]

All of it. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Elvis, you want a cookie? Okay.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

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[A]

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[A]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[A]

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[B]

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