Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 73: Chill Satanist

Summary

My Favorite Murder: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 73: Chill Satanist

Date: December 3, 2025
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark
Podcast Network: Exactly Right / iHeartPodcasts

---

Episode Overview

In this episode of "Rewind with Karen & Georgia," the hosts revisit their original 2017 episode "Chill Satanist." This time, they offer new commentary, updates, and fresh context on the true crime stories they discussed, focusing in particular on the infamous Fall River cult murders and a notorious hostage crisis in Berkeley. The show also features their trademark blend of comedy, personal anecdotes, pop culture asides, and updated perspectives on issues like criminal justice reform and media’s role in covering crime.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Recapping Old Episodes with Fresh Insights

• Karen and Georgia introduce the Rewind format, promising recaps plus new commentary and listener updates.

  “Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows for you with all new commentary, updates and insights. And you’re welcome to listen.” (01:47 – Karen)

• They reflect on the 2017 "Chill Satanist" episode, full of their signature playful banter about podcasting, dating, and early podcasting challenges.

---

2. Personal Updates & Banter

On Dating Apps and LA/National Dating Scenes

• Both hosts riff about the struggles and quirks of dating in LA versus NY, including banter about HomeGoods shopping dates.

  “LA was recently ranked second worst among large US cities for dating... New York seem... but New York seems fucking horrible.” (19:54 – Karen and Georgia)

• Memorable HomeGoods-date brainstorm:

  “How about just a walk through HomeGoods?... If they’re able to like make fun of things the way you're supposed to in HomeGoods… fucking marry that person.” (21:37 – Karen & Georgia)

---

3. True Crime News & Criminal Justice

Agnes Gund and Criminal Justice Philanthropy

• Karen highlights a positive news story: Agnes Gund sells a $165 million Lichtenstein to fund criminal justice reform.

  “She sold a Lichtenstein worth $165 million... and donated all of the money to criminal justice reform, specifically to reduce mass incarceration in this country.” (04:35 – Karen)

The Harshness of Drug Laws

• Georgia shares a personal anecdote about someone sentenced to eight years for marijuana possession in Florida, sparking a short, angry discussion about the legacy of outdated “blue laws.” (05:19 – 06:25)

---

4. Revisiting High-Profile Cases

Kayla Brown and Todd Kohlhepp

• The hosts discuss the infamous Kayla Brown rescue footage, expressing horror and empathy while critiquing the media and police response.

  “It was almost worse... she was so calm... it kind of hit home that thing of everyone always saying, you don’t know what you’re gonna be like in a crisis.” (08:07 – Georgia) “She’s not a child. It’s not her buddy... it’s not a buddy system.” (08:52 – Karen)

Update Segment [24:41 – 27:16]:

• Todd Kohlhepp is serving seven life sentences without parole.
• He has been punished for trying to profit from his crimes (discussing book/merch deals from prison).
• Karen references her comprehensive episode on Kohlhepp: MFM Episode 458: The Demands are Incredible.

---

5. Main Story Recap: The Fall River Cult Murders

A notorious series involving sex work, Satanism mythology, and brutal violence in 1970s-80s Fall River, MA.

Story Breakdown

• Set in the economic recession of late-1970s Fall River, which led to social decay and increased sex work.
• Victims: Doreen Levesque (17), Barbara Raposa (22), Karen Marsden (20).
• The “cult” was allegedly centered around Carl Drew, a violent pimp with a traumatic, abusive childhood.
• Ritualistic elements: animal sacrifice, seances, and sexual violence—likely fueled by drugs, paranoia, and the “Satanic Panic” of the time.
• Police investigations led to plea deals, shifting testimonies, and a tangled question of who was actually responsible for the murders—Carl Drew or teenage accomplice Robin Murphy.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Robin Murphy:

  “People still think... the actual ringleader and the murder isn’t Carl Drew, but is Robin, the 17-year-old wannabe pimp girl.” (57:37 – Georgia)

• On criminal manipulation and plea bargains:

  “So basically it was like, whoever runs forward first and says, I will snitch on everybody else, is the person who gets the deal.” (52:12 – Karen)

• Laughing darkly at the multiple “bad Carls” involved:

  “There’s a bunch of bad Carls in that area.” (56:57 – Karen)

Key Case Updates [66:53]:

• Carl Drew remains imprisoned, but recently won access to potentially exonerating files.
• Robin Murphy was released on parole in 2024, after demonstrating rehabilitation and earning a college degree in prison.

  “She acknowledged that due to her pattern of dishonesty, many people have been harmed. She’s willing to try and rectify the harm she has caused.” (67:46 – Parole Board, quoted by Georgia)

---

6. Story Two: The 1990 Berkeley Hostage Crisis

Host Karen recounts a harrowing mass shooting and hostage event in a Berkeley, CA bar.

Story Beat Highlights

• Iranian immigrant Murdad Dashti, suffering from untreated paranoid schizophrenia, takes 67 people hostage at Henry’s Pub in the Durant Hotel.
• He shoots several patrons, demands humiliating acts, and asks police to pay him $16 trillion for “psychic services” rendered to the government.
• The standoff, covered live on TV (with dangerous detail), lasts over eight hours and ends with police storming the bar; Dashti is shot and killed as the hostages are rescued.
• Key conversations on how unfiltered media coverage compromised hostage safety and triggered media policy overhaul.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Dashti’s motivation and the media’s role:

  “The news was running it live, like people got to watch it as it happened, was very bad... And it bolstered him, probably, because he was now a big deal.” (94:37 – 95:05 – Karen & Georgia)

• On the standoff’s psychological toll:

  “So she got up and walked out... she got shot eight times and didn’t even know it.” (80:26 – Karen)

Update Segment [105:33]:

• The hostages published an open letter criticizing media coverage, resulting in new reporting standards for breaking hostage situations.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Playful banter on “phoning it in” during the original podcast intro:

  “We were told by podcast consultants that we should act like this at the beginning of the podcast... If you’re new to this podcast, you probably hate us already. You can go to hell.” (02:20–02:29)

• On the randomness of heroism during crises:

  “One guy steps forward and says, you can shoot me.” (91:35 – Karen, on the Berkeley hostage crisis)

• Reflecting on the pressures of early podcasting and juggling TV writing:

  “Here comes the breaking point of like, I worked my whole life to be a sitcom writer. It was finally happening, and it’s like, but now you have to quit because you have this other thing…” (107:53 – Karen)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Main show intro begins: 01:43
• Anecdotes on dating apps and LA dating life: 01:43 – 23:00
• Criminal justice stories and “good billionaire” Agnes Gund: 04:32 – 06:25
• Discussion of Todd Kohlhepp/Kayla Brown and media ethics: 06:26 – 09:49
• Listener updates, pop culture banter, plugs: 09:49 – 12:16
• Main story - Fall River cult murders recap: 34:32 – 61:22
• Case updates (Fall River, Robin Murphy parole): 66:53 – 68:43
• Main story - 1990 Berkeley hostage crisis: 72:27 – 105:15
• Hostage crisis updates and media aftermath: 105:33
• Wrap-up, positive notes, career reflections: 106:13 – end (111:22)

---

Episode Tone & Style

The episode blends grisly true-crime retelling with frank discussion of systemic issues, offbeat humor, and moments of philosophical reflection about criminal justice, empathy, and human resilience. Karen and Georgia maintain their signature conversational authenticity, weaving in sidebars and confessions that keep the subject matter engaging and anchored in their own lived experience.

---

Summary

In a return to their formative episode “Chill Satanist,” Karen and Georgia expertly dissect the facts and mythology surrounding the Fall River cult murders and the Berkeley hostage crisis. Their updated insights—specially on the evolution of plea deals, prison reform, and media responsibility—add richness, while their asides about dating, jobs, and HomeGoods dates add charm and levity. This episode is a strong showcase of MFM’s ability to blend irreverent humor with earnest commentary and support for survivors and advocates, while remaining critical of true crime’s darker tendencies—especially the risks of media sensationalism and killer glorification.

---

Notable Episode Titles Discarded/Discussed:

• "Chill Satanist" (original)
• "I Love Jamestown"
• "So Many Bad Carls"

---

Signature Signoff:

"Stay sexy and don’t get murdered!"

Transcript

[A]

This is exactly right.

[B]

Protect your pet with insurance from Pets Best Plans start from less than a dollar a day. Visit petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Co. Or Independence American Insurance Co. For terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com. policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Co. Or Ms. Transverse Insurance Co. And administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC. $1.00 a day premium 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans pets age 0 to 10 it's the season to come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks.

[A]

Warm up with a creamy caramel brulee latte, get festive with an iced gingerbread chai, or share a velvety peppermint mocha Together is the best place to be at Starbucks.

[B]

The holidays are here, which means long days, festive nights, and plenty of outfits to pull together.

[A]

And if your bra isn't keeping up with the season, it's time for an upgrade.

[B]

Most bras are uncomfortable and come off the minute you get home. But. But Honey Love is different. Treat yourself or someone special to the most comfortable and innovative bras on earth this holiday season.

[A]

Save 20% off site [e-mail] MFM use.

[B]

Our exclusive link to get 20% off. That's HoneyLove.com MFM after you purchase, they'll.

[A]

Ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

[B]

Celebrate the season feeling confident and comfortable with Honey Love.

[A]

Goodbye.

[B]

Hello, hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[A]

Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows for you with all new commentary, updates and insights. And you're welcome to listen.

[B]

Today we're recapping episode 73, which we named Chill Satanist.

[A]

Sure. It came out on June 15th, 2017.

[B]

All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 73.

[A]

Hi. Welcome to my favorite murder.

[B]

That's Karen Kilgariff and that's Georgia Hardstark. And we are here and we are phony. This is how we do the podcast from now on. I hope you like it.

[A]

We were told by podcast consultants that we should act like this at the beginning of the podcast.

[B]

If you're new to this podcast, you can. You probably hate us already.

[A]

You can go to hell.

[B]

You can right off. We're not supposed to curse anymore. I forgot.

[A]

Oh, that's right.

[B]

You can f right off.

[A]

You can fit right in the A.

[B]

You can go to he doublehockey sticks.

[A]

And also email Us. Because that's. You're supposed to get that. This social media aspect going, right?

[B]

We're at Twitter and we're at.

[A]

And we're at. We're both on Bumble, even though George is married.

[B]

What's another one? That's good. I actually.

[A]

Wait. You might have to cut this out, Stephen, because I'll say her name to you, but I don't know it.

[B]

Leave it.

[A]

No, it's. Lizzie and I were talking about Bumble. We were just talking about dating in general. What a nightmare it is in LA and all that stuff. And in the conversation of her trying to get me to join a dating app, I convinced her to rejoin Tinder.

[B]

What?

[A]

It was the most hilarious turn. It was like she was trying to convince me. And as she was convincing me, I'm like, well, then why don't you do it? And then she's like, I don't know. I just. I don't know.

[B]

You know what?

[A]

You're right. I should sign up. It was hilarious.

[B]

You're good. You're just like, I'm gonna turn this.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Are you gonna sign up for any of them?

[A]

No.

[B]

You're gonna meet someone at a fucking gas station pumping gas. They're gonna be like, hey, that's why.

[A]

I keep hanging out at gas stations.

[B]

You gotta get a nice car.

[A]

The problem is that my arms are always crossed when I'm getting gas. So I put out negative.

[B]

You're more interesting. You don't want superficial shit.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

None of us do.

[A]

Also, I just don't. I wouldn't know how to pick people based on their picture. Cause I don't trust that.

[B]

Yeah, I'm good at. I'm. I'll take friends phones and be like, yes, yes. Or like read their thing. I don't know. Cause it doesn't matter to me. There's no fucking stakes in my pocket game. I don't give a shit.

[A]

I was actually doing it for Lizzie for a little while. But it's that thing where then you start seeing what other people's tastes are, which is really funny. Where I'm like, oh, I would have said yes to that. Lizzie's like, oh, no.

[B]

Yeah. This is a murder podcast, by the way.

[A]

This is called Karen's Diary. That's how we start.

[B]

This is called. I don't know.

[A]

This is called. Did you hear this interesting true crime based piece of news which lots of people tweeted to me on Twitter. There's a woman named Agnes Gund who is basically a crazy rich Philanthropist. She sold a Lichtenstein worth $165 million. Jesus. And donated all of the money to criminal justice reform, specifically with the eye to reduce mass incarceration in this country.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And a lot of people sent it to us on Twitter saying, there are some good billionaires out there. And also, like, some. Finally some positive news.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Which I thought was very cool.

[B]

I just found a friend of mine, like, someone she knows is going. A dad. He's, like, sober, but years and years ago, he. Well, he's going to prison for eight years for having some pot on him. Now in Florida, though. Oh, yeah. Shit. Which is just, like, so heartbreaking. His whole family is not gonna have his income. His kids are gonna grow up without him. Whatever he could do to be a productive member of society is fucked. Like, it just doesn't make any fucking sense to me.

[A]

It's so crazy. That's some old leftover. Those laws are now seeming like blue laws. They're just so old.

[B]

And like, blue law.

[A]

Blue laws are like those laws that were in. I don't know if they were specifically New England, but it was like. It's like, you can't. You can't drink on a Sunday in this county. All that old shit. That's like, they're just still on the books because no one took them off.

[B]

You can't spit because of the 1919 Spanish flu. People would walk in it and track it into their house.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Right. But, I mean, it should still be illegal.

[A]

Yeah, that would be nice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hey.

[B]

Okay, so, okay. We were gonna talk about Mommy Dead and dearest, finally. Because we've been promising it.

[A]

Yeah. Wait, do you have any other short pieces of business before we get into that discussion? Oh, the video of Kayla Brown when she was discovered on Todd Colip's.

[B]

You.

[A]

Know, farm or whatever.

[B]

Remember when a couple months ago, there was that they found this woman chained up in a storage container? Right. Yeah. They showed someone was like. They have video of them opening it, getting to her. And I was like, I can't watch this. Because I pictured her like, scre. Like, I pictured the end of Texas Chainsaw Massacre where she's screaming and insane.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And it was nothing like that. And it was almost worse.

[A]

I went to watch it. I was gonna watch it with the sound off because I knew that part would be bad. And the first shot is she's fully dressed. She's got a chain around her neck. Right. Like, there's a collar around her neck and then a chain.

[B]

She's laying on a mattress. Shitty mattress.

[A]

But it looked so weird. She looked like she was kind of frozen. Like she was so scared or whatever.

[B]

And how long she'd been in there, four months.

[A]

I'm not sure.

[B]

And had seen before she went in, her boyfriend shot. Shot and killed to death. Yeah.

[A]

And had probably been attacked repeatedly. And the second it started, I was like, no, I'm not watching this. I just. What for? Like, I'm glad she's rescued. That's great. I want her to get better. I want her to be strong. All positive vibes. I don't need to watch that moment of horror.

[B]

I felt bad, but I. But I did watch. I felt bad watching it, but I watch it. I think what was so interesting to me is how calm she was. And it kind of hit home of that thing of everyone always saying, you don't know what you're gonna be like in. What is it? A crisis. So they're like, whenever someone gets killed and they're like, he acted, like, so calm, and it's like, you don't ever know what it's gonna be like for someone. And this was like the perfect. Or like a traumatic event. This was the perfect example of that to me. And she was like, immediately like, I've been locked up in here by Todd Kohlhepp for this many months. He shot and killed my boyfriend. Like, she was just like, here's the information in case I can't give it to you later.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Amazing. It was. Yeah, it was amazing.

[A]

I also think I read in an article that the cops said to her, like, something like, where's your buddy? Or do you know where your buddy is? Which is her boyfriend who was murdered? Which I just hated that. I don't know why. And maybe the phrasing sounded differently. And I don't. I'm just judging the written word, but I just hated that. It's like, she's not a child. It's not her buddy.

[B]

It's not a buddy system.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Over here.

[A]

But it's probably just him trying to be like, I'm your friend.

[B]

Disconcerted.

[A]

Everything's okay. Yeah. Like, low key. I like to be judgy.

[B]

Oh, let's see. Before we get into that, I wanted to plug the animating podcasts Twitter, which I think is a new Twitter, because I don't have a lot of followers yet that they. I just. They go to animating podcasts on Twitter. There's one of our podcasts, short little clip that just brought me so much joy and happiness.

[A]

It's so hilarious.

[B]

So hilarious.

[A]

It's amazingly done for. Especially as fast as we talk and as, like, talking over, like, kind of overlapped.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where that could not have been easy.

[B]

Even, like, they had my. I went, mm. And I just made a noise and it was this perfect. It's just this hilarious cartoon. Steven's in it. Narwhals are in it. Spoiler alert. It's just like they took a clip from our podcast of us speaking and made it animated.

[A]

It was very exciting. It was a real honor. But it was also just, like, kind of cool.

[B]

So talented.

[A]

And also I liked that it started me talking to you and pointing at you, which is so me.

[B]

How did they know?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

And it looked just like us.

[A]

It did.

[B]

And Steven.

[A]

Oh, my God. When it panned over to Stephen.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I laughed out loud. It was such a great job. So great job. Animating podcasts. They do it for other podcasts. Go onto their feed.

[B]

Fucking best.

[A]

It's very cool. And thank you guys for picking us.

[B]

Yes. Stephen had a kitten named after him.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

I. I think I cried a little bit. They found him in the backyard. Right? Like, I couldn't think of a higher. Yeah, they found. Yeah, I couldn't think of like a. I don't know. It's a huge compliment. Yeah. I mean, it just. I don't. Yeah, it just means a lot.

[A]

It's really cool. So the kitten's name is Steven Ray Morris.

[B]

Kitten's name is Kitten Ray. Kitty Ray Morris, but they're calling it Morris, which I just think is so perfect.

[A]

That's very cute.

[B]

Kitty Ray Morris. Just so cute. It's a little tiny and he's a little baby.

[A]

I don't know what color.

[B]

It's like a tabby. Not you, Elvis. I know. It's like a tabby, like, striped, like, brown and gray kind of thing. Kinda looks like my cat growing up. So.

[A]

That's awesome. Congratulations.

[B]

Yeah, congratulations. That means we don't have to pay you this month, right? Yep. Because the cat got.

[A]

That's right. We got cat payments going towards the cat.

[B]

Yeah, it's going towards the cat. Okay. Mom, me, dad, and dearest man, people.

[A]

Have been asking and asking for us to please talk about it. And today on my car ride over, somebody, I checked my Twitter and somebody was like, are you guys ever going to talk about it? And in all caps. Oh, no. They said, have you guys. So I bet they were asking in a very polite way of like, did I miss it? Have you guys talked about this yet. And just in all caps, I wrote, not yet.

[B]

Let's never talk about it again. Let's bring it up every time. Let's move on right now and just never. We'll bring it up every episode.

[A]

So rude. It's time. It's finally time.

[B]

It's here.

[A]

It is, Mommy, dead and dearest.

[B]

It was good. Moving on.

[A]

I finally watched it. I was the one hanging us up because I didn't watch it for so long. And I just watched it like three hours ago. Really?

[B]

Yeah. Nice.

[A]

I caught up. I loved it.

[B]

It's so good.

[A]

It was amazing. And it's funny because I thought after watching, since I watched the Keepers first, I was like, oh, that's like a Netflix and it's this, you know, eight part thing and whatever. I thought it was really well done. And also, I am now so fascinated with Gypsy Dude. It's like, I don't. When they were talking about the fact that she was raised by this con woman manipulator, and so that's all she knows.

[B]

Can you imagine?

[A]

So like, her kind of like, I already am not the hugest fan of the baby voice and that kind of like the giggly baby voice which she was forced to. Like, her mother forced her to have that personality.

[B]

I'm not definitely. And you'll vouch for this. Not a psychologist.

[A]

Okay. But wait, are you a psychiatrist, though?

[B]

Yeah. You want some pills?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Adderall all around. But I heard from someone a long time ago that when older adults, women have that baby voice, it's because they experienced trauma as a kid and never got past it. So they sound the same as they did back then.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That sounds cool, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Let's say. Say it's real.

[A]

Well, I've heard the same thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, good.

[B]

Yeah, man. The. The. She's being interviewed from prison.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just crazy. I can't imagine what her inner life is like.

[A]

And I wanted to be mad at that dad so bad, but like the.

[B]

Dad and the stepmom.

[A]

But I. But it. You, like, you're only seeing it through. I feel like if the mom was still alive and she was putting in her two cents, you'd be like, oh, yeah, I would have moved seven states away. Even the little clips that they had of her were frightening. Like, she is a frightening, creepy woman.

[B]

But like, okay, the dad, while hot, wasn't very smart. So I feel like he was just manipulated and conned too. Clearly, for sure. Even his. Her parents were like, yeah, we had like, they were conned yes.

[A]

Well, and also when it's that, you know, that she is. Either she has some personality disorder. Definitely.

[B]

I won't.

[A]

I won't. Even though all I want to do is say which one it is.

[B]

Say I won't.

[A]

Well, I mean, if you have Munchausens by proxy, which means you're willing to hurt your child to get attention.

[B]

Sociopath.

[A]

You're a socio husband.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Bing, bing, bing, ding, ding, dong. That's the one. I know. But also, maybe even a psychopath.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Somebody tweeted and said psychopaths can't feel anxiety, which would.

[B]

I saw that.

[A]

Did you see that?

[B]

That was so cool.

[A]

Yes. Because. So they never get nervous. So no matter what they do or who they're lying to or what they're doing, they will never have that. Like, you'll never see the twitch in their eye of like.

[B]

Or then, like, burst out into rage, like. Cause anxiety is nervousness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And an anticipation of a situation or anticipation of something happening. Yeah. So thank God I'm clearly not a fucking sociopath. What is it? Psychopath.

[A]

Yes. We know you're. At least we know you're not a psychopath.

[B]

I'm clear. Clearly. Based on my pharmaceutical history. Clearly not a psychopath.

[A]

But I mean, yeah, the idea. Cause that, like, going through. Cause I kept going when they would say. And then she had this surgery. It's like, how the fuck did it get to the point where she's having surgery?

[B]

Dude, those doctors, man, those. I mean, I don't know. I know that they moved around a lot of doctors once they got suspicious.

[A]

Of it, and she's so manipulative and.

[B]

They wanted to believe her. Why would you not believe her sick child? But I feel like the first. I feel like always in a. In a pediatrician's mind should be. This could possibly be. It has to be there. Everyone knows what it is.

[A]

But she's inducing with medicine. Right. So she's like, oh, she has this. Then she's giving her medicine. That's giving her the reaction that's making her. Clearly, this woman is smart and knows a little bit about medicine in some ways.

[B]

I mean, when they open the medicine cabinet. No, the medicine closet.

[A]

Closet. Also the pictures around the house from around the house where there's just like brand new Disney slippers everywhere.

[B]

Where it's like, Disney thing was creepy as fuck.

[A]

Everything's pink and Disney and creepy. And so she's kind of a hoarder. She's kind of like this, like, put on these slippers. It's just yeah, it's the creepiest, weirdest.

[B]

And then did you see there was a girl on Twitter who was. Who like tagged us and was like. I just realized that I have a photo of them with them. It's one of the. It's a girl who listens. She like worked for Ronald McDonald House or something.

[A]

Oh, that's right.

[B]

And she's in a photo, like a photo op with them, smiling. Yes, honey, you win.

[A]

You won that. And also she thinks she has her arm around an 8 year old and the girl's fucking 18. That. That part of it also because gypsies eyes are like a little close together and a little crossed and her teeth like stuck straight out. Which I'm sure is from being poisoned.

[B]

All her life, they said, like leukemia medication.

[A]

So she kind of has the look about her where it's like something could be wrong. And then what mother brings her baby in and is like, you know, oh.

[B]

Steven has it cued up. What's her name?

[A]

Let's give her a. Brianne is the one who sent us the picture. It's amazing also when you look at this mother, you look at a person who used it like in the beginning when they have her, the pageant, she was like. Remember she was Miss River Queen or something.

[B]

Yeah, that was weird to me too. Where it's like she clearly gave a big shit about the way she looked.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it's almost like she had this other project now and so she kind of let it go.

[A]

Yes. She was living vicariously through her daughter's illness. So she was eliciting that exact. Like she wanted pity, sympathy. She wanted like an emotional connection, but she didn't believe she could have it the way she looked. And on her own merit, the other.

[B]

Show that I want to talk about, I don't know if you've watched it, but I randomly watched it and you have to, and everyone has. Especially if you're into fucking sociopaths, which who isn't? The Bernie Madoff documentary with fucking Robert De Niro's Bernie Madoff is so good.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I know. I'm obsessed with the Bernie Madoff case anyways and I know it's not murder and all this shit, but he's a sociopath.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so it's really interesting the way they kind of show. It's just such a tragic story.

[A]

He might even be a psychopath too.

[B]

Yeah. And yeah, it's so good. Oh, and then it's. What's her beautiful face as the wife? What's her name? Michelle Pfeiffer.

[A]

Oh, yeah, she's great.

[B]

Oh, my God. It's really fucking good, everyone.

[A]

Oh, okay, cool.

[B]

It's really fucking good.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

And that's it. It for me.

[A]

That's it for me.

[B]

Let's get out of here.

[A]

Bye. Bye.

[B]

Okay, we are back. How's that dating app ban going for you, Karen?

[A]

I mean, listen, the dating app ban, which is essentially like, be a workaholic your whole life and then just see who you can meet through friends at.

[B]

The gas station, right?

[A]

It's not ideal. I'm trying to work on it, but it's not ideal. Just in my own defense, LA was recently ranked second worst among large US cities for dating, citing high divorce rates, low marriage likelihood, and low quote, unquote quality of life metrics for singles. This is, according to Timeout Worldwide, the number one city on that list. New York City.

[B]

New York seem. I mean, LA doesn't seem cool at all, but to be fair, it's where I've met literally all my adult boyfriends, so I can't complain. But New York seems fucking horrible.

[A]

Horrible, I mean, because at least you don't even have the fun. Kind of like, you know, the schmoozy here in Los Angeles. People are phony, sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But at least they're good at being phony. Like, they'll compliment you. You won't see it coming. It'll be a good time, as had by all New York. It seems like it's a bunch of finance bro types that are, like, yelling at women in the street or something.

[B]

That, like, want a wife and kids. They don't want, like, you know, you to be interesting. Also, the other thing, too that I'm thinking about is like, you can be like, here in la, you can go, like, let's go for a hike date. That's like a thing, which I never do, but it's free. In New York. You have to go for a $36 cocktail every time you want to go on date. Right? Like, it's not maybe cheap. There's no hiking.

[A]

Or if a guy says, like, let's walk around, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I almost said public park. Central Park.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You'd be like, no creep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I mean, how do you. I don't know.

[B]

What's your perfect first date? Like, if you have it, like, you're going to meet someone you don't know. Like, you might like them, you might not like them. It's not even like, someone you love.

[A]

Like, how about just a walk through home goods?

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

And then like, some yes. Right. Someone needs a spatula. It goes on for what, 30 minutes? And then you're like, okay, thanks so much. And we can just like process this and see if Ian works a great.

[B]

You get a drink, a beverage, like a, you know, coffee or whatever. You walk through Home Goods and if they're able to like make fun of things the way you're supposed to in home goods and then pick up a thing that they need, like a spatula.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Fucking marry that person.

[A]

I think you would learn a lot about watching someone shop at Home Goods because, like, are you the kind of person that skips the food aisle or you like me? The kind of person that's like, surely I don't want any of this weird colored pasta, but what if there is a hazel nut candy?

[B]

I've never heard of these hard candies that taste like violets. Like, what's happening?

[A]

I've never had candy from Finland. Maybe I should give it a whirl. I mean, I don't know. Things like that.

[B]

Karen, that's honestly like fucking brilliant. There needs to be like, have I done it? You did. Like, there needs to be a Home Goods date night where they close to anyone but people on dates.

[A]

And it's almost like you also have to. If you're going to be there, you have to need something.

[B]

Right. So I got to pick up 900 clip chips, whatever.

[A]

Yes, exactly. So I need magnets for my refrigerator. I can only get them here.

[B]

What? And like, what if on date night they turn the lights down a little bit so it's like a little more flattering.

[A]

Play a little. Neil Sadaka.

[B]

I think you did it.

[A]

I think I've done it. And Home goods. Email me. Let's get this thing going.

[B]

Home Goods date night. That's fucking.

[A]

Also because just as an older person, it's like all the conversations around dating are truly for the 20 and 30 year olds. Granted. And God bless, when you're older, it's like, I think there's a part of me where it's like, it's not the pressing fear that I used to have because I really have built this life that I am really enjoying and really kind of like thrilled by. I genuinely. All my dreams have come true and do come true all the time. So I don't have that big empty space type of feeling.

[B]

Right. There's not, there's not a rush to have a baby or to like buy a home or anything like that anymore for you.

[A]

Yeah, it's more like, ooh, this is neat. What's Happening. Who's going to be here? Like, it's just kind of that feeling. So then going out of my way to, like, drink coffee with a stranger and make small talk is truly my worst nightmare to begin with.

[B]

And psychologically, walking side by side makes you talk more and makes you more open than when you're sitting across from someone just talking. That's why you have the best conversations when you're in a car.

[A]

That's why. Do you need a ride? Works truly. We get people to say anything that's right back there.

[B]

Oh, my God, I'm obsessed.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

It's really true. It's crazy that this was just happening, too. So going back to the podcast, that Todd Kohlhepp f? Cking case was just breaking at the time.

[A]

That was breaking and very disturbing. Breaking. Like how everyone found out about it. It was just so upsetting and. Yeah. And then we finally covered that, so.

[B]

Maybe let's give an update really quick. So Todd Kohlhepp is now serving seven consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole. Yes.

[A]

He's also currently under investigation for possibly profiting from those crimes after prison messages surfaced showing that he was planning merchandise sales and discussing book or documentary deals.

[B]

What the fuck? So as a result of those messages, the South Carolina Department of Corrections moved him to its most secure housing unit, removed his tablet privileges indefinitely, and is pursuing disciplinary charges.

[A]

Also, the Inspector General's office is reviewing whether new criminal charges should be filed against him for attempts to monetize his notoriety. I mean, that's an amazing leap forward that I don't think was like, we've talked about that a lot. You know, for all the mistakes we've made on this podcast, I feel like this is one area we've been pretty solid in, which is serial killers are not the celebrities. They're not the stars. They're not who anyone should be focusing on.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Certainly not the people that should be given deals or any of that kind of shit. It's like, if you want to hear from those people, read any of the other books that were written by people that are also psychotic or whatever.

[B]

Right? Or then to watch the documentary where they interview the victims families and what they went through, not the guy and what he put them through. Nobody fucking wants to hear that. Right?

[A]

And it's interesting. Cause it's like that reminds me of after watching the Tinder swindler who I think just went to jail, but there was a person like. That was one of the breaking stories back when the news cycle involved things like that where there was a manager who reached out to him to get him set up for like he could. So he could have write like a, you know, a Bravo show. The Tinder swindler hosts whatever. And of course everyone was like, no, go fuck yourself. Like, this is disgusting.

[B]

When you're the manager going after the swindler, the murderer, the whatever. Like it's time to join the Peace Corps. Like it's time to drop out of society and go help people. Because you've just gotten on the wrong track at that point, you know? Right.

[A]

You're just trying to make something out of anything that does numbers. And it's like, no, it's a little harder than that. I think. You have to do it. You have to do it a little bit better than that.

[B]

Life in general. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Being a human being. So I actually did cover. So if you want to hear the whole story of Todd Kohlhepp and his horrible crimes, it's episode 458. The episode is called the Demands are Incredible.

[B]

And it's crazy because I don't think we knew at the time how this case would unfold because he is then tied to other cases, which is just chilling. Yeah, definitely. That's. That was a great. You did a great job on that one.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

All right. Oh, God. This case that I covered in this one is just chilling.

[A]

Yeah, this is a bad one. Well, let's just get into it. It's time to listen to Georgia tell her story about the Fall river cult murders.

[B]

Protect your pet with insurance from Pets Best plans start from less than a dollar a day. Visit petsbest.com Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company. For terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com. policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insur Insurance Company or Ms. Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC. $1.00 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans. Pets age 0 to 10. The most important part of home security is the protection that starts before anything ever reaches your door.

[A]

Real prevention starts with Simplisafe.

[B]

Unlike other systems that make you do the monitoring, Simplisafe's team handles it for you. Even if you miss the alert, Simplisafe's.

[A]

Monitoring agents can step in right away to stop a break in before it starts.

[B]

There are no long term contracts or hidden fees and Simplisafe was named best home security system by U.S. news & World Report for five years running. The people who are just gonna try it, see if they like it, maybe they give it to someone that they love for the holidays, like they're gonna keep it. I guarantee there is nothing that feels better than being able to check in on your house. But you can't always be monitoring it yourself. So I do love that I can just count on Simplisafe to be monitoring it for me.

[A]

Yes. And the idea that they're actually experts, so it's like I might hear a noise and freak out, but they actually see on the video that it's like, no, that's just a raccoon. Everything's.

[B]

Fine.

[A]

Right? It' insurance you get where you don't have to be freaking out. And this month only take 50% off on any new.

[B]

System. This is one of the best prices you will ever see for Simplisafe. Don't miss.

[A]

It. Hit simplisafe.com fav again. That's simplisafe.com fav and lock in your.

[B]

Discount. There's no safe like Simplisafe. Goodbye. Family stories don't always get passed down. Even the ones that matter.

[A]

Most. That's why Storyworth Memoirs is an important gift for loved ones this holiday.

[B]

Season. What's great about Storyworth is that even though they've been around for years, they're still innovating. This year they added a bunch of new features to make storytelling even easier. With personalized questions and magic editor. What's not changing? Customers love for Storyworth. They've printed over a million books and preserved 35 million family stories since their founding 13 years.

[A]

Ago. They have over 48,000 five star reviews on Trustpilot, Wirecutter, the Strategist, CNN, Fox News, and.

[B]

More.

[A]

Agree. Storyworth is the perfect gift for people you love.

[B]

Most. It really is such a good gift because we all want to know our family stories, the important ones, the loved ones for years to come. And you can't just just ask them the question. You're gonna get it wrong, you're gonna forget. You have to like get it down. And Storyworth does it, but in a really beautiful layout and a really beautiful.

[A]

Way. Yeah. They give you these prompts that make it really easy for you to interview your family. Yeah, they like ask the questions so that the story comes out really.

[B]

Easily. Give your loved ones a unique keepsake you'll all cherish for.

[A]

Years. Storyworth Memoirs right now save $10 or more during their holiday sale. When you go to storyworth.com mfm.

[B]

That'S storyworth.com mfm to save $10 or more. Okay. Oh, yeah. Who goes? Should we. Should we talk about.

[A]

Murder? Yeah, let's do.

[B]

It. Okay. Me, Steven. It's all you. All right, Karen, you love. You love.

[A]

Cults. Oh.

[B]

Yes. Yes or.

[A]

No? Should I lean all the way back and stick my feet up in the air and just listen up, because this is my favorite.

[B]

Topic. Get comfy, girl. Actually, I found. Yeah. Nay. Nay. Karen. Karen.

[A]

Leaping. You found.

[B]

What? There was one cult that I wanted to do, and then I don't know why I never did it, but then I was just like, what are other. Because I'm not a big cult. I mean, I love Jamestown, obviously. Jonestown. Jamestown, Clearly. I'm a big.

[A]

Fan. I love.

[B]

James. Jamestown. Jamestown. That's actually like, a really nice little, like, retreat. It's a camp for children.

[A]

With. I believe Jamestown is, like, the first settlement in the.

[B]

Colonies.

[A]

Right. But I definitely could be wrong because I can't remember high school at all. So I wasn't in no way laughing at you for that part. But I do love. I love the old joke of I'm a huge fan of this, and then say the different one. Always go with that. Pretend you did it on.

[B]

Purpose. I love it. Listen, when I get shit wrong, I think it's.

[A]

Hilarious. Jonestown is. I love it, too, obviously, because it came out of San Francisco, and it's like, when it can be. I mean, that's. As a hometown, it's just so.

[B]

Epic. Just the amount of people who actually killed themselves is epic. Like, I looked up Heaven's Gate, which I thought was really fascinating. That's a good one. It's just fucking.

[A]

Cool. Heaven's Gate is so crazy, too, because it's so sinister and yet dull. That's the weirdest part about it. It's like, we think we're gonna go to a planet or a spaceship or whatever. We like computers, and we want to be androgynous. And then we kill ourselves. The end. There's no blood. There's.

[B]

No. I think they killed some.

[A]

People. Heaven's.

[B]

Gate. Yeah. Who, like, left the.

[A]

Thing. Oh.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I'll have to do it sometime. I really want to do Waco because I think it's way more complicated. I just. I kind of don't want to touch it because it's. It's. I think it's pretty.

[A]

Inflammatory. Yeah.

[B]

Like. Oh, that.

[A]

Was. No, it is. You're right, because I think the story everybody got initially was, like, these.

[B]

Lunatics. And they lit the place on fire. And it's like. I don't think there.

[A]

Was. Yeah, there was children in.

[B]

There. Yeah. You weren't letting them come.

[A]

Out. Yeah, there's a lot to.

[B]

It. Okay. Anyhow, this is the Fall Rivers cult murder. Ooh. Had. Never heard of.

[A]

It. Never heard of.

[B]

It. Okay. An hour outside of Boston, the town of Fall Rivers, Massachusetts. Got that one right. In the 1970s, there was a crazy fucking recession. They had the gas shortage. You had to wait in line and what was it? You could only get gas on certain days, depending on when your license plate ended and.

[A]

Whatever. So it was like odd days. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I mean, odd numbers. Monday, whatever. I remember waiting in line with my dad at. I believe it is now a shell on Petaluma.

[B]

Boulevard. What was it? Gas and go or.

[A]

Something? It was.

[B]

A. Something.

[A]

Good. I can't remember what it was, but it was like we were out in the. Like out in the different street, waiting for it to get into the gas.

[B]

Station. I've done that at Costco before. But not. Yeah, think of that. But everyone's broken out of a job.

[A]

Right? Yes, yes. Pre Costco, there's. The idea of even buying wholesale was, like.

[B]

Inane. Yeah. Everyone was broke. Yeah. So 1970s, Fall river rivers is hit super fucking hard. Factories closed, buildings abandoned, all that stuff. So, like, Main street is empty. Which just led to a crazy, seedy underground of drugs and sex working to.

[A]

Flourish.

[B]

Yeah. So the first victim of the Fall river murders. Can you. Stephen, can you look up a bit? Small river or rivers? There's. There's no s. It's Fall river. Okay? So everyone calm down. Got this, right, because I've written it both ways, okay? The first victim of the Fall river.

[A]

Murders. Wait, Fall Rivers or Falls River? Sorry, sorry.

[B]

Sorry. Oh, you know what? I'm gonna say both ways. No Falls Rivers murders. It gets sad now, so.

[A]

Let'S. Okay, sorry. Be.

[B]

Cool. 17 year old runaway, Doreen Levesque, she had escaped her New Bedford foster home and she got out of there and went to Fall river and turned to sex work to survive. 17 years old.

[A]

Jesus. And like, so fucking every story you hear about foster homes, obviously there are good foster parents out there and all, blah, blah, blah, but man, oh, man, like, I have a friend who grew up in several foster homes, and it's just like one horrible story after the.

[B]

Other. It's just that thing of like. Well, can you imagine if working on the street and sex work is the better alternative than living with your foster.

[A]

Family? Yeah, like.

[B]

That. You can imagine what that must be like. Horrible. Not that there aren't great foster parents out there. In fact, I want to be one one day. But not in the 70s, there wasn't. Okay. She was so her body was found on October 13, 1979, under the bleachers at the local high school. Yeah. Her wrists have been bound with fishing line and she had been stabbed in the head several times. And her face had been beaten so bad that she was unrecognizable. Then a month after she had been found, a man named Andy Maltias goes to the Fall river police station. He wants to file a missing persons report for his girlfriend. Uh.

[A]

Huh. They won't do.

[B]

It. There's a twist, okay? A 22 year old sex worker, that's who she is. Barbara Raposa. He tells her that he's scared for her safety. And then he starts to randomly mumble something about a satanic cult. And he says he has information relating to the other murder of Doreen.

[A]

Levesque.

[B]

Whoa. Yeah. So he is a very mentally unstable creep. He's a pedophile, a sex sadist and a violent rapist. And when he's questioned by the police, he told them that there was a satanic cult operating within the Fall river area and the sex worker community. So that whole community of drug addicts and sex.

[A]

Workers. Jesus.

[B]

Christ. Are fucking Satanists. And this is during the satanic panic, remember that? Yeah. Which is like the stupidest thing. But then there were Satan. Satanists, who.

[A]

Knows? Also, it's a violent rapist reporting. How bad does it have to be? Once again, that's just crazy. Where it's like I'm the worst person and I'm gonna go to the police because this is this.

[B]

Bad. I'm so worried about my girlfriend and. Yeah. So okay then. Karen Marsden, she's a 20 year old single mother, she's a drug addict, teenage runaway. Was a teenage runaway. She's also working as a sex worker. She comes forward because she's afraid for her life. She tells the police that the local pimp, Carl Drew, was the ringleader of this satanic cult and that he was responsible for the murders. The murder, excuse me. She felt that she knew too much and was too inside the close knit circle of the satanic group to remain safe. So she's fucking terrified. The police offer her protective custody for her cooperation, but she denied it. She didn't want it. Uh oh, who knows why? I mean, I'm sure she doesn't trust the cops and she's a drug addict. You don't make the best fucking.

[A]

Decisions.

[B]

Right. When you're on.

[A]

Drugs. And also, if you're trying to do drugs, you don't want a cop around him protecting.

[B]

You.

[A]

Right? So you're like, I just need to get.

[B]

High.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. So, Drew. Let's talk about Carl Drew. The woman, the man she fingered for the murder. Listen, look, listen. You guys said it, I didn't. You guys are.

[A]

Gross. Stephen, play back that.

[B]

Tape. This is a murder.

[A]

Podcast. I.

[B]

Know.

[A]

Please. I know.

[B]

It. All right? Carl Drew, 25 years old. He's from New Hampshire. He'd been raised on a small farm. And the story is that he had a childhood of hard labor and physical abuse. He told a story later of his alcoholic father tying a rope around his ankles and lowering him down a well to remove a cluster of dead.

[A]

Rats. Oh, no.

[B]

Why? Face to face with that shit.

[A]

And also fucking leave them there. Won't they be in the.

[B]

Well? They'll just. What's it called when things. They'll degrade. Yeah, totally leave them in the.

[A]

Well. So how about you pour some goddamn battery acid down that.

[B]

Well? And your kid, well, in addition, he lived on the farm, so he was taught to butcher livestock. And he got the job of cleaning the farm's slaughter pit. Again. Send that kid in.

[A]

There.

[B]

Dang. He had a wade through rotting carcasses in order to separate the hides and hooves for rendering, which, you know, all of that just smelled so.

[A]

Horrific. I mean, and you would smell like that for.

[B]

Days. For days. Well, this is like if I were Gwyneth Paltrow. And I was like, it was hard for me, too. I made bone broth recently. Stephen, cut that out. I don't know how it smells. Well, you have to. You have to boil them, the marrow bones, for, like, 48 hours. And it just gets this.

[A]

Smell.

[B]

Yeah. That is so horrific and not good.

[A]

Yeah. Did that smell, like.

[B]

Linger. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So then when I ever, like, I can't drink it now because it's so.

[A]

Disgusting. You have to have somebody else make.

[B]

Your. Yeah, you buy it. I know it's expensive. Gwyneth Paltrow, but you guys look it up. If you have gut issues. Bone broth, it's really good for you. Anyways, where was I? At 14, he runs away to Fall River. He eventually becomes a pimp. And he's a Satanist. And he uses Satanism to terrify the sex workers who worked for.

[A]

Him.

[B]

Yeah. He had a felony record. Convictions for assault, weapons possession, and armed robbery. So he's a real great dude. He claims later to be the son of.

[A]

Satan.

[B]

Okay. It's like, who.

[A]

Knows? Did he. Did Satan have.

[B]

Kids? Oh, I.

[A]

Wonder. Yeah, I do.

[B]

Too. Like, did they change? Did Satan change.

[A]

Diapers? I mean, but he wasn't.

[B]

Good. Like, the wife woke up and was like, it's your.

[A]

Turn. It's your turn. And he's like, no, I'm fucking.

[B]

Satan.

[A]

Yeah. I have to do it.

[B]

Again.

[A]

Yeah. The son of.

[B]

Satan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Like, come on.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, most people claim to be Satan, right? Isn't that more of the.

[B]

Thing? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. It doesn't matter. Yeah. He makes the sex workers participate in his animal sacrifices and tells them that the same thing would happen to them if they disobeyed him. So he wasn't one of those.

[A]

Nice pimps that everyone talks about or nice.

[B]

Satanists? Or nice.

[A]

Satanists? There are nice.

[B]

Ones. I mean, they do seem Satanists. That's.

[A]

Fine. I mean.

[B]

Whatever.

[A]

Yeah. They're chilled.

[B]

Out.

[A]

Yeah. It seems just like a tool to control people. It's just using fear. Like, this is the thing you're scared of. I'll use this symbol and it'll control your.

[B]

Behavior. And I'm on all the meth. All the fucking, like, Fall river meth. Which is probably.

[A]

Not. No, that's the good.

[B]

Stuff. Yeah. No offense to them, but. So the Fall River Cult, they had, like, maybe up to 10 members. They're all associated with the Fall river sex trade. So between 1979 and 1980, they held a bunch of ceremonies deep in the local woods, which sounds creepy. And during the seances, this guy Carl Drew would speak in different. A different voice and in different languages. And everyone who had been there was like, no, he. It wasn't gibberish. He was speaking another.

[A]

Language.

[B]

Wow. Which I was like, all.

[A]

Right. Did he know.

[B]

Spanish?

[A]

Yeah. Had he gotten the Rosetta Stone.

[B]

Cd? I know pig Latin. That doesn't mean I'm speaking in another language. And we. You and I speak in a different voice whenever we do fucking.

[A]

Ads. That's right. You can do lots of V.

[B]

Voices. I'm not. Color me not impressed with.

[A]

This. Carl, Carl, Carl, you.

[B]

Nerd. Carl. He's still alive. So.

[A]

Let'S. Whoops. Even edit that out. For.

[B]

Sure. Don't edit this whole story out. Forgot to mention, he's still alive. Okay. First the rituals. Rituals involved sex and drugs. But then things took a turn when he was like, human sacrifice.

[A]

Time. Oh, no.

[B]

No. Okay. The second victim is Barbara Raposa, who's 22, another known sex worker. Her body's discovered by. Oh, here's horrible. A man is out walking his dog in the forest. It's a beagle. Picture.

[A]

It.

[B]

Yes. His dog starts sniffing around and, like, starts to kind of chomp on something. And he thinks it's just an animal because she was so unrecognizable that he didn't realize it was a.

[A]

Human. Was the full body or just a.

[B]

Part? I think it was a full.

[A]

Body. Oh.

[B]

Man. But in the bushes. You know what I.

[A]

Mean?

[B]

Yeah. So that poor dog. And that poor man. Do you think that dog. He ever let the dog lick him on the face.

[A]

Again? I think he probably put that dog.

[B]

Down. Yeah. Once they get a taste, it's so.

[A]

Dark. I know, but it really is not to be hacky and say the same thing we say all the time. But it's like, what is. I understand there's a benefit of going into the forest if you have a large group and you're there to really hike it up and be a team or whatever. Walking alone with your dog in the forest. I feel like there's only a couple things that can happen to you, and they're.

[B]

Bad. Like, your dog doesn't care if it's on the forest or a sidewalk of a fucking suburb. It's like, not that your dog's more stoked when he goes into the. Why are.

[A]

You? And then at the same time, I have to be totally honest and say, I am jealous of that.

[B]

Guy. Cause he gets to do.

[A]

That. Because just that moment must have been horrifying. And, like, just. It's just a seminal moment. It's a watershed.

[B]

Moment. I wonder. I wonder. I don't ever want to.

[A]

Know. I wonder. Here's what I wonder. Are seminal and watershed synonyms? Or did I just say two different.

[B]

Things? Seminal is like. Yeah, no, but they're. Yeah, they're like explaining a thing, a defining moment. Right. You just said it in better words than.

[A]

Defining. Sometimes I just pick a word out and say it. Just whatever my brain.

[B]

Offers. You sounded like a thesaurus. Jesus. I can't say.

[A]

Thesaurus. Thank.

[B]

You. You're welcome. Okay. She had been so. Barbara Raposa. She's been badly. Okay. She's got her hands bound. She's face down. She's on a flat stone that resembles an altar. She had been so badly beaten again that her skull was crushed. There were stab wounds to her head again. And. Yeah. So then on February 1980, the cult's third victim was killed. This is 22 year old. Who, you may remember her name, Karen Marsden. Oh, no, the woman who had gone in because she was afraid.

[A]

So. Oh, no, I. Sorry. I had immediately assumed it was the missing woman. But this is the one who fucking showed up.

[B]

Herself. Yeah, the one who went in. She's a 20 year old single mother, drug addict and she feared for her life. She's the one who came in and said no thank you to Victims Protection. So she is 20, she's the one who comes forward. So she had been present, it turns out, at that first murder of Doreen Levesque. So she had been there. So that's how she was, why she was.

[A]

Afraid.

[B]

Yeah, and it terrified her so much that that's why she went to the police. And Carl, what's his last name, Drew, found out about it. Yeah. So her head was beaten in with a rock then. According to the story, Drew then broke her neck with his bare hands. And according to someone else who had been there, it was a cult. Devotee. Devotee, Devotee, Devotee. She was devoted and sex worker. She's 17 year old, Robin Murphy. And she was there. And according to her, Drew handed her a knife and ordered her to slit Karen's.

[A]

Throat.

[B]

Whoa. So then he cut an X into Karen's chest. Do you want me to say her last name instead of.

[A]

Karen? No, it's.

[B]

Fine. Okay. And he used the blood to put an X on this Robin Murphy's forehead. Then the. They played around with this head. Ugh.

[A]

Yeah. Drugs, drugs, drugs. That's all I can.

[B]

Think. Can you imagine? Not even just the detachment of being able to kill someone, but then to have a human head in front of you and not like I feel like I would pass the fuck out seeing.

[A]

That. Of course you would. You would be in total shock. I mean, you would be. It's.

[B]

Horrifying. Well, clearly, like, if I see someone get hurt, I am empathetic because I understand what getting hurt is and I see it and I can identify with.

[A]

It. So, like, you're really underlining this point that you're not a.

[B]

Sociopath. So I'm a really good yawn right now. Yawn. I'll fucking yawn too. See, in case you're a new listener, that's the test of a sociopath. If you yawn and the person doesn't yawn too, then they don't have empathy for you. It's just this automatic.

[A]

Response. No, I mean, but I understand what you're saying. It's just so gross, even that we're talking about it, much less to witness it. Be a part of it, take part in just defies.

[B]

Logic. And the fact that not only is there one person who does it, but you'll know someone else who's cool with it too. The fact that there can be two people, because I feel like that'd be one in a million people. But I guess they all live in Fall River. Do, do, do. Okay, so.

[A]

Only. Oh wait, a telegram just arrived. It's everyone who lives in Fall River. They're super pissed at.

[B]

Us. They're suing us for.

[A]

Defamation. They said Twitter's not fast enough. We needed to let you know how livid we.

[B]

Are. It's actually. It's a clown and it's a.

[A]

Singing telegram, but he's got a bloody X on his.

[B]

Head. Yeah, don't worry about it. So only her skull was ever found. And the reason they found it is because she had had X rays of her head, which I'm like, they said she had sinus.

[A]

Issues. Oh. So there was something to compare. Like they knew who it.

[B]

Was.

[A]

Yeah. Got.

[B]

It. Which is crazy. So finally a break comes in the case. They the police had wiretapped the phone, hoping that they would find Carl Drew speaking about the murders. But it's not him. It's the 17 year old girlfriend, Robin Murphy. And she is a sex worker and aspiring pimp. So she's talking and it turns out that she was saying that 25 year old Drew was not the ringleader, but that she was. That 17 year old Robin Murphy is. Robyn Murphy contacts police and she offers to testify against Andy Maltias. Remember the guy who went in cause he was worried about his girlfriend. Yeah. As a witness to the murder of his girlfriend. So he killed his girlfriend and then went looking for her is her.

[A]

Story. Oh, like, so it was a setup. Basically he was trying to make himself look.

[B]

Innocent. Maybe. Unless Robin's.

[A]

Lying.

[B]

Okay. She also claimed to be present for the Doreen Levesque murder and she agreed to turn state's evidence in that case. She was like, I'll tell you everything. In exchange she gets a deal where she's placed in protective custody and she gets immunity in both murders that she was there for them. And. Yeah. And they don't know if she was involved.

[A]

Yeah. I mean that seems like a dream. Like that's basically her going, here's what I wish I could.

[B]

Have. And they're like.

[A]

Granted.

[B]

Yeah. So the story she gave police was that Andy Matias killed his girlfriend, Barbara Raposa, because he found out that she had Been cheating on him with another man. So he goes to trial first. And based mostly on the testimony of Robin Murphy, in January 1981, he's convicted of the first degree murder of Barbara Raposa, given a life sentence without the possibility of parole. And he is later considered to be a suspect in a few other unsolved area rapes dating back to the early 70s. But no additional charges are ever brought against him. And then later, he's found to be clinically insane, but they still didn't overturn the verdict or give him a new trial or anything like that. But he ended up dying of cancer in 1998 in prison. Wow. So then Robyn is allowed to plead to the lesser charge of second degree murder in exchange for her testimony against everyone. And they keep the immunity deal that she had going. And she received no additional charges in connection with either of the other two murders. So she's only getting charged with the last murder of.

[A]

Karen. So basically it was like, whoever runs forward first and says, I will snitch on everybody else is the person who gets the.

[B]

Deal. I think so. And I'll hear about plea deals where they're like, they agree. The attorneys, whatever. I don't know. They agree to the terms of taking a plea only if the information matches.

[A]

Up.

[B]

Yeah. So if they end up. They would agree to them. If this thing is the case. If this thing is true. Which we should totally have Guy back on and ask him.

[A]

About.

[B]

Yeah. Because that seems much more, you know, what's the word? Makes much more sense than just being like, okay, anything you.

[A]

Say. No, no. I think. Isn't that always the rule, that the thing that you say has to then basically solve the crime and be the thing that convicts the.

[B]

Person?

[A]

Right. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that, yeah, we should definitely have Guy back or.

[B]

Like, saying that their involvement is. Is this. That has to be true. You know what I mean? Like, I'll testify here is my involvement, but if later it turns out that that involvement isn't true, that you lied about it, I don't know. What's this.

[A]

Guy. No, it wouldn't be that. Because that's like. Then they would be planning for.

[B]

The person to lie because they could find anything to. Yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense.

[A]

Okay. I mean, what a boring part of a show where we were like, we don't know anything about the law, but let's say what we.

[B]

Feel. Definitely, let's talk about.

[A]

It. It's me going, I don't think it's that. But not based on anything other Than my. Just my.

[B]

Gut. I didn't go to law school. But I bet there's a really simple explanation to.

[A]

This. Let's keep talking about.

[B]

It. Listen, I'm a psychiatrist. I'm a lawyer and a psychologist. I'm a psychologist. It's great. I'm a cat. I'm also a cat. Okay. Do do, do, do, do. Okay. So this chick Murphy receives her name. What was her name again? Robin Murphy is. She received a life sentence with the possibility of parole. She spends 24 years in jail in prison, and then she's released on June 10, 2004. But thank God she violated her parole and she goes to prison seven years later. She's currently serving her time in a maximum security prison in Massachusetts. And in 84, she recants the entire.

[A]

Story.

[B]

Huh? She says none of it is true. She's trying to get a new trial. It doesn't happen. She's eligible for parole in March 2017, which if you look at your calendar was like two months ago. And they're reviewing it right.

[A]

Now. Hold on. So in saying that the whole story is not true, is what she's saying that the satanic cult part's not true or she's saying that her part in the murder isn't.

[B]

True? I think what she's saying is that the people she is fingering for the crime didn't actually do.

[A]

It.

[B]

Wow. She doesn't. It's not.

[A]

True. Got.

[B]

It. I don't know exactly. If she gave an alternative story, I couldn't find anything on that. So Carl Davis, who's a different Carl, who's involved with the slaughter with the murder of Karen Marsden, he doesn't ever stand trial for it. And the following year he's arrested for assaulting a woman named Sunny Sparta. And according to the statement by Carl Drew, the other guy on his. Wait for it, personal blog, he's still in prison. He's a blogger. Yeah. It's said that Carl Davis beat up the three months pregnant woman, Sonny, stabbed her in the head with a knife. Only because she had information implicating him, Carl Davis and the woman Robin. And that Carl Drew had nothing to do with it. But she was too scared. This woman, Sunny was then too scared to.

[A]

Testify. Jesus. That just keeps happening with these.

[B]

People. Yeah. So there's some really convoluted crazy shit going.

[A]

On. It kind of makes sense though that they wouldn't be involving the. This truly satanic scariest.

[B]

Person. Well, if he's not in.

[A]

Prison. Yeah, right. It's almost like that usually happens. Where they manipulate everybody into doing what they want the whole time and then everyone else takes the.

[B]

Fall. Well, they're proving that it's proven a couple times that they kill people who.

[A]

Snitch.

[B]

Yes. And if Carl Drew is the killer, then they could talk, but. Cause he's locked up. But if the dude who actually did it isn't locked up. I don't.

[A]

Know. Listen, that really seemed like it was going somewhere. It.

[B]

Was. You get it? Like, I don't even need to finish it. You know what I mean? Like, it's just. I'm just talking. So. Okay, so for that stabbing, he served seven years and he's now free. This guy, Carl.

[A]

Davis.

[B]

Fuck. Okay, getting to.

[A]

The. There's a bunch of bad Carls in that.

[B]

Area. Bad.

[A]

Carl. So many bad.

[B]

Carls. All right, so the case of the first chick, Doreen Levesque never goes to trial because the district attorney is like, it would cost too much and it would be futile because he already has. Carl Drew already has a life sentence. So what's the point? It's called justice. I forgot the word. All the charges. Against. Against. Okay. Anyways. Okay, so people still think that the actual ringleader and the murder isn't Carl Drew, but is Robin, the 17.

[A]

Year old wannabe pimp.

[B]

Girl? Well, according to. According to this blog that he writes, which I read it, and it's actually, it's pretty. It's good. It's like he is pissed off about his trial. He goes down, the breakthrough of what happened and all this like prosecutor intimidation to the witnesses to testify against him. And he says that her IQ was 138. She was incredibly smart and manipulative and the attorneys don't want to admit that they got fooled by a 17 year old girl.

[A]

Apparently. Just real quick. So do you think Robyn and Carl went to the IQ place one day together and just took some tests and were like, oh my God, what'd you.

[B]

Get? Oh my God, what'd you get? They just both went online and did one of those, like take the Q test and you have to put your email address in. So it's so annoying to get it. You know those. And like you've gone to the end of it and you don't want to give them your email address. But like, but you have.

[A]

To. To find out you.

[B]

Went. You took 10 minutes out of your. Yeah. When you were supposed to be.

[A]

Working. I just love that he had her IQ right there on.

[B]

Hand. Well, he said that they gave it to her when she went into prison, which I don't think they.

[A]

Do. How would he know.

[B]

That? Good.

[A]

Question. Just because he has a blog, let's not give him all this credit. All of a sudden. He's the.

[B]

Greatest. I think every blogger is the greatest. You know that about me. The minute I find out someone has a blog, I'm like, you relate.

[A]

Because you're also a.

[B]

Blogger. Yeah. Oh, they must be really.

[A]

Smart. Oh, my God. My.

[B]

Kindred. My kind, My kind. My people. So they think that Robin acted alone, or at least a mastermind, and that Drew is actually totally innocent. But he's convicted of first degree murder for Karen's murder and serving a wife in Massachusetts. No possibility of parole then. So Robin ends up recanting her statement. She claims she lied about the whole thing and that Carl Drew wasn't even involved. She says he wasn't even involved. And three witnesses come forward who had testified against him that they had been pressured by the prosecution to testify and that they actually wanted to testify for him, but they got too scared and.

[A]

Didn'T. And sorry. So then according to that story, it's the other bad.

[B]

Carl. It's or.

[A]

It'S. No, it's.

[B]

Rob. It's a mystery. It's maybe Robin and this other Carl. Who knows? I don't know exactly. But Robin is definitely a mastermind in it and so who knows who else she worked.

[A]

With. But that's kind of an amazing movie right there. Yeah, you get one of those Fanning girls, cast them, it's like.

[B]

Dakota. Who else is there? There's.

[A]

Dakota.

[B]

Elle. There's.

[A]

Elle. I'm sure there's others so talented back at the. That idea is just like.

[B]

Amazing. Who done.

[A]

It? Who done it? Was it a 17 year old.

[B]

Running the whole show or was it the fucking 25 year old pimp who had to wade through carcasses of animals.

[A]

Also? It's just so. It's fascinating. I would love to know how many people were like at those. Was it just a straight up, we took her into the woods and killed her or did they go ceremonial and was it this big creepy, creepy thing? Like it just seems like now I really want to know what the actual story is. Was it like, were they taking advantage of satanic panic and like putting it all under that? Yeah, like, what the.

[B]

Hell? I just can't imagine someone really believing in Satan. Like he never. Oh, hello. He never answers the Catholic church. I was gonna be like, it's not like you can believe in it because he talks to you. But then I'm like, oh, that's what people think about Jesus and.

[A]

God. I mean, in a lot of.

[B]

Things.

[A]

Yeah. Unicorns, blogs. Look, he's talking to.

[B]

Me. Well, the happy ending of the.

[A]

Story is that he has a blog and anyone can. And that blogs forgive you no matter what you.

[B]

Do. Listen, go to Blogspot. Start yourself a.

[A]

URL. What about Angelfire? Isn't that.

[B]

One. What's.

[A]

That? Wasn't that a blog.

[B]

Spot?

[A]

Whatever. Stephen.

[B]

Stephen. Yeah, it was a blog website. It's shut down, but it's all archived, so you can still find your old websites. Just like a.

[A]

Hosting. Hosting.

[B]

Site. It's a hosting program. Yeah, like.

[A]

Blogspot. That was the first. My friend had a blog where she would just rant and talk full shit constantly. And it was like, blah, blah, blah, angelfire.net or whatever it was. And I just thought I was so new and it was the beginning of the Internet that I thought Angelfire was like, where all blogs took place. I was like, like, oh, angel fire, that's amazing. And then later on when that didn't exist anymore, I was like, oh, there's blogs, other places. Like, yeah, it, I just thought it was the, that one.

[B]

Spot. Yeah, well, and then blog spot became that one.

[A]

Spot. They got a little smarter. They, they, they went secular with it. They, they knew don't involve angels in this or.

[B]

Fire. Sounds.

[A]

Satanic. Yeah, that whole concept is a bit much. It's a bit.

[B]

Beyond. Like, we don't even believe that. And we believe in blogs. They're not true. What if blogs were a myth? Like, blogs were like unicorns. Like, I don't think they ever existed. And someone's like, yes, they did. There's.

[A]

Proof. I could print it up. And they're like, yeah, right. I believe in.

[B]

Blogs. My blog is fucking gone from the Internet. So nobody tried to find it, by the.

[A]

Way. Oh, you erased.

[B]

It? I took it down because I read it recently and I was like, oh my God. I was like, oh.

[A]

My. Okay, was it just like your diary, like your daily.

[B]

Thoughts? No, it was a little.

[A]

More. Just give me a taste of.

[B]

It. Okay. Like, I would write really lovely, flourishy, gorgeous tales of, you know, my life, but then one of them was about my car getting broken into. Oh, were you there, Stephen? No. Yeah, it was just like, it was just.

[A]

Such. Were you there in the 90s with me.

[B]

Stephen? Yeah, Stephen, you were there at my blog. I meant, like I did a reading recently and read one because it was so stupid.

[A]

But.

[B]

Oh. Oh, yeah. It was like a 27 year old girl who wanted to sound fucking. What's the word?

[A]

Worldly. Yeah, yeah. You know.

[B]

Yeah. Stop it. 27 year.

[A]

Olds. I mean, that's what 27 year olds were built.

[B]

For. That's what the blogs were built for, is 27 year.

[A]

Old. It's my.

[B]

Sound.

[A]

Yeah. That's.

[B]

Amazing. Enough about me. Let's talk about.

[A]

Murder. God, I wish, I guess. I bet you that such a frustrating part of being a part of the legal system is so much lying. Like you just are. Like, we had this whole thing set up and you promised me it was the truth. Now we're going with this story. Yeah. And now. And then four years later, you're like, I lied about all of.

[B]

It. It's like we went off of that entire thing. Wouldn't it be great if, like, people stopped.

[A]

Lying? I mean, if they found like, in the same way as you can get like a fingerprint analyzed, you can somehow accurately get a lie detector. Like a lie detector.

[B]

Test. Like a lie detector.

[A]

Test. It's not. Those don't work though. They're 50.

[B]

50. I wonder if people. If they came up with. Isn't there a truth. Isn't there like a truth serum.

[A]

Powder? Well, they can actually use truth serum, but doesn't necessarily mean you will tell the.

[B]

Truth. And if you're not a lot about that.

[A]

That. What's.

[B]

That? I don't know a lot about.

[A]

That. About truth serum. I think it's like a. It chills you out. You know what? Why am I talking right now? You tell us. Doctors and. And.

[B]

Chemists. I'll tell.

[A]

You. Thank you so.

[B]

Much. I want to say it's sodium pentalol, but I think that's.

[A]

Poison. No, no. I think it is Sodium pentol. Did I get that, Steven? Do you think it.

[B]

Is. Oh, my God. I'm going to be so impressed with myself. I got.

[A]

That. I think you're right, dude. Yeah, I'm fucking. But I think there are people who can beat it, who can game it when they know it's gonna.

[B]

Happen. Well, when you don't care about anything, you can't do it. You can trick.

[A]

It. Also, I think it's. I think the reason they don't use it more is because they can't just shoot up whoever they.

[B]

Want. Yeah, I think I was gonna say that. It must be against rights.

[A]

Somehow. I bet it.

[B]

Is. Can everyone stop.

[A]

Lying? I mean, I'll start with.

[B]

Me. What is it, Steven? Sodium pental is used to induce comas. Anesthesia, euthanasia. Oh, nope. Yeah, that's the Euthanasia.

[A]

That's. Oh, nope. Truth.

[B]

Serum. There we go. Yeah, it's still used in some places as a truth serum to weaken the resolve of a subject and make them more compliant to pressure. It's called wine. Try.

[A]

It. Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say that's what wine does. Six wine coolers. This is.

[B]

What. Watermelon.

[A]

Wave. Bartles and James.

[B]

Strawberry. Strawberry. What's that one wine that's like strawberry flavored wine? Oh, what is it called? It's like super cheap and.

[A]

Shitty. Blue.

[B]

Nun. No, I don't know what that is, but you'd know.

[A]

It. Thunderbird. Night.

[B]

Train. Night Train. No, someone's yelling it at.

[A]

Home.

[B]

Yeah. Anyways, someone's drinking it at.

[A]

Home. You gotta.

[B]

Hope. You gotta.

[A]

Hope. Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this.

[B]

One? There are, actually. So Carl Drew continues to serve his life sentence in prison. He recently won a court case granting him access to previously protected documents that could prove his innocence. And then Robyn Murphy was granted parole in 2024. The Massachusetts parole Board based its decision on several factors. One is that Robin seemed to have addressed her own trauma and addiction issues. And she seems more able to have empathy. She also has earned her bachelor's degree from Boston University. And so the board noted her work inside the prison in a training program matching dogs and military veterans. The board said, quote, she acknowledged that due to her pattern of dishonesty, many people have been harmed. She's willing to try and rectify the harm she has caused, end quote. So, I mean, if that's the point of our prison system, then it seems like she met those she did it demands.

[A]

Yeah. Also, she was young, on drugs, you know, in with a crowd or whatever. And I think what we've learned over the years is, like, that's definitely a thing. You do not see the true sociopaths or psychopaths do. They do not admit that they did anything wrong. They are the victim. It's always sad for them. Yeah, they never do this. So it's like that's all anyone's looking.

[B]

For. Yeah. Rehabilitation and I mean, you know, I just can't ever not think about the fact that I hung out with the up people back then when I was a 13 year old. And to think that the mistakes I made back then. Yeah. Not that I'd ever. I did anything. I mean, I did illegal for sure. I didn't hurt anyone, but I definitely fucking did illegal shit. And so. So the fact, you know, it's just. I'm just always so grateful that I got out of that. And so for her to have a chance to do that, too, is important, I.

[A]

Think. Yes. Agreed.

[B]

Okay. All right. Well, Karen, let's get into your wild story about the Berkeley hostage crisis. Your pet is your bestie, your therapist, your perfect match. It's easy to love them. It's easy to protect them, too, with pet insurance coverage from Pets Best because it's all fun and games until they chew on something they shouldn't and you get a vet bill to match. With perfect timing, Pets Best helps protect your furry friend and your budget from this imperfect world. Get up to 90% cash back on eligible vet bills from less than a dollar a day. Pets Best has plans to cover accidents, injuries and more, from puppies and kittens to senior. Find your perfect match plan and get a [e-mail] Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company for terms and conditions, visit www.petsbest.com. policy products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Company or Ms. Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC. $1.00 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans. Pets age 0 to of 10. Family stories don't always get passed down, even the ones that matter.

[A]

Most. That's why Storyworth Memoirs is an important gift for loved ones this holiday.

[B]

Season. What's great about Storyworth is that even though they've been around for years, they're still innovating. This year, they added a bunch of new features to make storytelling even easier with personalized questions and magic editor. What's not changing customers love for Story Worth. They've printed over a million books and preserved 35 million family stories since their founding 13 years.

[A]

Ago. They have over 48,000 five star reviews on Trustpilot, Wirecutter, the Strategist, CNN, Fox News, and.

[B]

More.

[A]

Agree. Storyworth is the perfect gift for people you love.

[B]

Most. It really is such a good gift because we all want to know our family stories, the important ones, the loved ones for years to come. And you can't just ask them the question. You're gonna get it wrong. You're gonna forget. You have to like get it down. And Storyworth does it, but in a really beautiful layout in a really beautiful.

[A]

Way. Yeah, they give you these prompts that that make it really easy for you to interview your family. Yeah, they like ask the questions so that the story comes out really.

[B]

Easily. Give your loved ones a unique keepsake you'll all cherish for.

[A]

Years. Storyworth Memoirs right now save $10 or more during their holiday sale when you go to storyworth.com mfm that's storyworth.com.

[B]

Mfm to save $10 or more on your.

[A]

Order.

[B]

Goodbye. If your cat could write a letter to Santa, cleaner fresher litter would definitely make the.

[A]

List. And if your cat gains the ability to write, you need to leave the house and don't go.

[B]

Back. But you can still give them ex exactly what they're hoping for. Pretty Litter keeps their box fresh, soft and healthy all season.

[A]

Long. Pretty Litter is formulated with silica gel crystals that are safe for cats and people.

[B]

Alike. Advanced odor control means your home smells like home, not a litter.

[A]

Box. Pretty Litter's crystals change color to detect early signs of potential.

[B]

Illness. It also helps monitor your cat's health, detecting abnormalities in your cat's urine by testing acidity and alkalinity levels and the visible presence of.

[A]

Blood. The ultra absorbent formula uses less material than clay litter, reducing waste and saving money. It's ideal for apartments, busy lifestyles or multi cat.

[B]

Households. We're a multi cat household and I am always so worried about the house smelling like multiple cats live there. So every time I walk in the door, I take a deep breath and I don't smell cat litter because Pretty Litter actually.

[A]

Works. And right now, try your first bag for just 14.99 and get a free cat toy at pretty litter.com mfm.

[B]

That'S pretty litter.com mfm to get your first bag for just.

[A]

$14.99. Pretty litter.com mfm Pretty Litter cannot.

[B]

Detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. CSITE for details.

[A]

Goodbye. Okay, mine this week I picked because I like doing these ones where I can remember hearing about it or some kind.

[B]

Of. I love those.

[A]

Right? Some kind of thing where you're like, wait, what was.

[B]

That? Oh yeah, I get to talk about.

[A]

This. So I had this. I can't remember if. Whatever I was watching or thinking of, but it was like, because this isn't there. There was a murder in. But it was more of a hostage crisis. So this.

[B]

Is. Don't scare the shit out of.

[A]

Me. The man's name was Murdad Dashti and It was the 1990 Berkeley hostage crisis. Do you remember.

[B]

This?

[A]

No. 1990, you were blogging. No. You were too young back then, were.

[B]

You? It was just called diarying.

[A]

Then. Back then Were.

[B]

You? I was 10 in 1990, so no, I didn't even know how to write yet. Can you write it.

[A]

Too? You could write.

[B]

Cursive?

[A]

Yeah. I bet you could write a nice paragraph about like what I did this.

[B]

Summer.

[A]

Yes. With some good $10 words in.

[B]

It.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so I was 20, so I was in San.

[B]

Francisco. Oh, so you were fucking there for.

[A]

It? No, sorry, I was in.

[B]

Sacramento. It could have been.

[A]

You. Yeah, I moved to San Francisco when I was 22, so I was Sacramento. So I wasn't like right across the bay. But we were close by and it was on the news. This was so crazy because when this happened and the news found out about it, they went live on the news. Okay, so this is basically what happened. It's September 26, 1990, just before midnight, and a 29 year old Iranian male named Murdad Dashti and his friend decided to go to Henry's public house house, which is in the lobby of the Durant Hotel, one block south of the Berkeley campus in Berkeley, California, right across the Bay Bridge from San Francisco. So Murdad Dashti had told his friend he went to Berkeley four years earlier. He had graduated with an engineering degree and he, he didn't get a job like he had, he came from Iran and obviously was super smart, got into Berkeley, which no one I knew can.

[B]

Do.

[A]

No. And got this engineering degree. But then when he got out, couldn't get a job that was like, he didn't get an engineering job or he had these dreams of like, now I'm in America and now I'm gonna get a really awesome high paying job. So he couldn't get it and he was, he like started doing handyman work and it was, you know, very much beneath him, but he needed the money. He had also gotten married. I think it was the year before he graduated and his marriage like kind of crumbled and the, the more he wasn't finding a job and the less money they had and stuff, the more controlling he was with his wife. And his wife was like, see you.

[B]

Later. Money.

[A]

Issues. Yes. Bad news. So he ends up in this apartment alone and he was. Later on the police found out that he was schizophrenic. He was a paranoid schizophrenic. So he had started to hear voices, but he wasn't, he didn't deal with it in any way. He just was listening to the voices, fighting with the voices. He was living in that world, but he didn't ever go get any kind of mental help or Medical help for that issue. So that night on December 26, he tells his friend he wants to go to a bar where a lot of blonde white women will be. And so his friend decides they should go to Henry's. And Henry's was this. It was really close to the campus, so a lot of sorority girls and frat boys would go there. And it was just like this super popular.

[B]

Bar. Sounds like a blast. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, sorry. A lot of this I got from a show that I found online. That's an ID channel show called Deadly Demands, Season one, Episode five. And they had actually in this show a lot of this live footage that was from KPIX. I don't know if you remember Channel 5 in San Francisco in the Bay Area. KPIX is the local news, local TV.

[B]

Channel. She know their jingle single.

[A]

KPIX? No, I could. Channel 2 was the one we watched the most, which was KTVU. They had a whole song about. Yeah, there was only one too. Was there like slow? Isn't that.

[B]

Good? There's only one.

[A]

Too. There's only one.

[B]

Too. Love.

[A]

That. And in the late 70s, early 80s, when the San Francisco Giants only ever lost, like they never won a game, ever. There was a. Like a 15 second second promo that they would run during the cartoon time and like after school, like 4 o' clock or whatever. And it was just like the. The Most janky early 80s graphics of a baseball player swinging a bat. But the. As he swung, it was just like flash animation where the colors changed into like a like brown and yellow rainbow. So it'd be. He would swing and it'd be like brown, light brown, tan, yellow, orange or whatever. And the song that played underneath it was. Come on, Giants, hang in.

[B]

There. Oh my.

[A]

God. How fucking pathetic is.

[B]

That? That's our new thing. Come on. When we're feeling low Hang in.

[A]

There Come on, Georgia, hang in there. We used to. My sister and I used to sing it to each other all the.

[B]

Time. I love it. I love it. One, because it's fucking hilarious and horrible. Two, because you're singing and you have a great voice. So it's like. It's good. Like, if I tried, it wouldn't be.

[A]

Good. Well, also.

[B]

It'S. And it's so tacky. It's so ugly. Everything's.

[A]

Brown. It doesn't. It's brown. And it's the kind of thing, like you would never see it these days because it's like, no, don't cheer on your losing team by basically going.

[B]

Don'T quit baseball yeah, you'll get.

[A]

There. Yeah. Like, don't walk off the.

[B]

Field. Don't give up. So anyway, see, I told you it was gonna be terrible.

[A]

Okay. Okay. So props to ktvu. But this was kpix, totally different channel. So they're in Henry's. They call Last Call. Dashti and his friend are sitting in the corner, and at one point, his friend goes and goes up to get drinks, and Dashi goes, hold on, hold on a second. I'm gonna go out to the car. He goes out to the car and he comes back with a briefcase. Yeah. And so Last Call is called. Everyone's kind of like. They're like, wrapping it up. And at one point, Dashi opens the briefcase, pulls out a semi automatic, and just starts shooting it into the air. In the bar. In the bar. So there are 67 people in the.

[B]

Bar. Holy.

[A]

Shit. At the time. And half of them run out. Then I think they said, like, eight people were shot in that time. And then everybody else hits the floor, and kind of when the dust settles, he says he yells to everybody, if you're hurt, you can leave right.

[B]

Now. Weird.

[A]

Yes. So there, like, one woman in this, in Deadly Demands. She got shot eight times and she didn't even know it. She was just, like, sitting.

[B]

There. What the.

[A]

Fuck? Yes. And because it's an automatic weapon, because we fucking need automatic weapons in this country so fucking.

[B]

Badly. Assault rifles. Everyone have.

[A]

One. And this guy had many. Yeah, she got shot eight times and didn't. She said, I felt uncomfortable. And then I touched my side and I was bleeding. So she got up and walked.

[B]

Out. What.

[A]

The. She's totally probably.

[B]

In. This is making me feel much better.

[A]

Though. About.

[B]

What? The pain that you probably. I always, like, think about the pain when you get.

[A]

Shot. Yeah, well, you. I think you go into shock. Like, she would go into shock because she didn't get shot in any. She got, luckily, was like, her side. So she got somebody out. And then there was a guy. He shot a guy right in the chest. A student and two other guys went, can we please bring him outside? Cause he can't go outside by.

[B]

Himself.

[A]

And. And Dashi said, you can, but you have to come back. So they all go outside. I seriously doubt they came.

[B]

Back. Can you.

[A]

Imagine? You're like, I'm a man of my.

[B]

Word. I'm.

[A]

Here. I'm here again. So, okay, so there's a cop, a patrol officer that's walking up and down the street, and he's like, half a block away. He hears gunshots. He thinks it might be firecrackers, but he goes to look and see what it is. And as he gets closer, he sees the people running out of the pub. He realizes then it's gunfire and immediately calls it in. So there's cops and ambulances and everybody on the scene really quickly. Because luckily someone was right there, like, the second it went off. So they have the bar surrounded very quickly. The SWAT team is on site. And so this is the amazing part here. So the hurt people leave. He's got everybody else. And he immediately makes everyone that's still in the bar line up against the windows that face the. There's, like a wall of windows that face the street. And he's like, everybody line up against the windows. Therefore, they're blocking the windows from. The cops can't see and they can't shoot into the.

[B]

Windows. How scary for those.

[A]

People.

[B]

Yeah. Where's his friend right.

[A]

Now? His friend ran out. Okay. Yeah. And his friend ran out, ran to the cops, said his name is this. He has these guns. Like I didn't know. And he lives up the street. So then immediately the cops get a search warrant, and they go into his apartment, and they start discovering all the things that they eventually find out about him, which is, he went to Berkeley. He's basically now living almost in squalor, divorced. And he's written all these letters to the police, to the government, basically saying, you owe me $16 trillion for the psychic services that I've been providing for you. So he believes that the voices in his head are the American government telling him what to do. And he has been listening and obeying and now believes he should be compensated for what he's been doing. And it's so insane in this show they share. So two hours before he takes this bar hostage, he had called 911 in Berkeley. And he's talking, and this woman is so calm and trying to get the information out of him. But he's basically saying, in a very calm and rational sounding voice, he's saying, okay, so I just need the police and the government to pay me the money they owe.

[B]

Me. Oh, my.

[A]

God. Because they have been using, you know, my telepathy. They've been using it, and they said they were gonna pay me and I need that.

[B]

Money. Did you listen to it?

[A]

Yes. I didn't real. I thought it was a reenactment and then.

[B]

Realized. Cause everyone's so.

[A]

Chill. Yes, they were. The woman was so professional and he was so calm that it was not a.

[B]

Reenactment.

[A]

Wow. And it was. It's the kind of thing where if I was a dispatcher, I don't know if I would have stayed on the phone with him as long as she did because. Because it sounded like bullshit. It went from reasonable to super crazy, where you'd go, oh, this is a person playing a prank. It doesn't sound like a crazy person at all. He sounds very reasonable. And like he just needs his money. And what he starts telling her is he needs money because he just got this letter saying he has to go to jail. And what had happened was he. I think it was like three weeks before. I can't remember the timeline exactly, but. But he. Because he didn't have a job, because his wife left him, because he didn't have any money, he had taken his car, driven into San Francisco and just smashed a bunch of really nice cars with his car. And he got arrested for it. He got caught after having done it. He basically probably went to, like, Pacific Heights or Nob Hill or somewhere crazy fancy and just smashed all the Mercedes parked on one.

[B]

Street. I mean, wouldn't. Who wouldn't.

[A]

Want. Ive felt pretty great, probably as revenge. But then here's the problem. They arrest him, they bring him into the police station, and they do a strip search on him. And for him already being in the mental state that he's in and also being a practicing Muslim, where being naked, like, they. They made him strip naked. And it was incredibly obvious. I mean, it'd be demeaning to anybody. It doesn't matter what your religion is. But the way they were saying it in this story, it made it sound like it was in a religious way. Not very inappropriate for.

[B]

Someone. Yeah, probably now there's like, nah, I don't.

[A]

Know. So that was part of it. So one of his first demands. So what he does is once he gets everyone lined up against the wall, he first asks. He makes all the blonde pretty. He says all the pretty blonde women in the bar come and stand in the center. So they do, and he makes them strip. And then there's no. It's not in any of the, like, articles I found. It was definitely not in deadly demand. But I heard about this. Like, it was things that people weren't. That they weren't putting in the newspaper. But basically, after making these women strip, he made the men in the bar basically sexually assault the.

[B]

Women. Oh, my.

[A]

God. But no one had. No one has. That was in this website I found. That's like a police report thing that they do not go into detail at all. And of course, a lot of the men tried to block his view. So they were pretending to be doing something that they weren't actually doing. But then apparently there were things where he. It was. He made, like.

[B]

Them. Oh, my.

[A]

God. But I don't know what it is. It's the creepiest part of the story, and it's the part that I remember people talking about the.

[B]

Most. Where it was, like, talk about.

[A]

It, just person to.

[B]

Person.

[A]

Yeah. So who knows the urban legend element of it because it's so salacious and gross. But also the thing that I heard was that he made somebody assault someone else with a carrot. And he talked about Bugs Bunny a lot. Like, it was this, like, one of his fixations. But that, to me, that sounds like it could just as much be an urban legend as it could be anything else. That's, like, totally.

[B]

Sounds. When. Have you seen a carrot in a bar.

[A]

Lately? Right? Or did he bring it with him because it was part of his weird plan to humiliate? Like, what would humiliate a person the most? I don't know. Any way you slice it, it's hideous and disgusting, but they barely touch on it. In the TV show version, it's just the women standing there stripping and stripped and crying and, like, being humiliated that way. So then the next thing he says is he makes a guy take a bar stool and break out a window. And then the guy, he sits down against the wall, is squatted down, and he just makes this guy be his voice for him. So the guy. And you see this. They have news footage of this because this is. They went live on KPIX almost immediately. And you see the guy who's like a frat boy from the.

[B]

80S. He's got.

[A]

Like. Like, you know, like, the blond hair parted on the side and the white shirt or.

[B]

Whatever. Did he look scared or was he.

[A]

Nervous? Too far away to see, but you can kind of just see that it's like an 80s outfit. And he's basically saying they want. He wants. He wants Police Chief Frank Jordan. Is it the mayor or the police chief? I think it's the police chief. I have it here somewhere. Wants him to go on the news and take his pants off. He wants him to strip from the waist down and go on live.

[B]

Tv. This is some dark mirror.

[A]

Shit.

[B]

Yes. Black.

[A]

Mirror. Black mirror.

[B]

Yes. This is some black mirror.

[A]

Shit. But it's basically he wants to humiliate the head of the police department the way he was humiliated. And he wants it to be on tv, which finally There's a. Because I had only ever heard of those demands that he had. And they just made it sound like, can you believe that? It's like, no, there's fucking backstory to this. There's a reason for it. There is a logic behind to.

[B]

It. It's kind of like the center of the whole fucking.

[A]

Thing. It really is. And also, why, if you smashed your car into things, why did you have to get strip.

[B]

Searched? Definitely. I mean, it's almost like, were they. Yeah. Or were they like, he's clearly on some.

[A]

Drugs.

[B]

Right. When he was just schizophrenic. Or.

[A]

Were. Was it that time of like, was it racism? Was it, was it some kind. What was.

[B]

Happening?

[A]

Definitely. Okay. So no, it is. Frank Jordan. Frank Jordan was the chief of police. Okay. So anyway, they're like. And they're. He's basically saying he turned on the TV in the bar and he's like, I want to see it happening. So the, the. It's driving the negotiators crazy because he won't get on the phone and he won't talk himself because he's. He knows if he stands up in front of that window, they're going to shoot.

[B]

Him.

[A]

Sure. So he will only talk through a proxy or, you know, whatever. So they can't negotiate that way. So they keep saying, like, we need more time. He's also demanding. He demanded $16 trillion. He also wanted California, Nevada and Oregon. Cause he was like, this is what I'm owed. I've done all this work for you psychically. Yeah, you owe me this. So anyway, they keep saying we need time or we have to. But that's when the negotiators and the police start to realize this is a very bad situation because we can't give him even some of what he needs. We can't even approximate a negotiation here. So this is going to go.

[B]

Badly. Couldn't they have like.

[A]

Lied? Well, but he wanted to see it on the news. He wanted to see it on his.

[B]

Tv.

[A]

Okay. So he wanted to see something actually happening. And they're like, there's. There will not be progress.

[B]

Here.

[A]

Right. So that all happens like basically in four hours. So it's now 4am and there's no progress. And he is getting really agitated. And he finally says, I guess I'm gonna have to shoot somebody. Which one of you is going to be the one that gets.

[B]

Shot? Oh, my.

[A]

God. And he's looking around this bar and it's. These are college kids. They're all people that are probably the oldest.

[B]

23.

[A]

Yeah. And they're looking at each other, and one guy steps forward and says, you can shoot me. Yep. So then he says, can I go tell them what's about to happen? And the guy says, yes. So he goes to the window and says, I'm about to be. I'm about to be sorry. I'm about to be executed right now. And of course, the police are like, they don't know what to do because they don't have a clear. They don't have a clear in. In any way. And it also was a part of it that. The part that was bad was that it was in this lobby of this hotel. So there's people in the.

[B]

Hotel. Holy.

[A]

Shit. And it's the middle of the night. But they know their, like, time is ticking away because pretty soon, like by 7am this is a college campus. They're practically on campus. So, like, they're not gonna be able to keep people from coming closer and closer to the scene. So they know they're gonna have to do something about it.

[B]

Soon. Oh, my.

[A]

God. So the guy yells out the window. Nobody knows what to do. This is on the news. They have, like, they were showing this footage. The kid walks back, he says to the guy, can I say a prayer? And the guy says, yes. And so the kid says a prayer. They all are just sitting there, like, watching some of them close their eyes, and then the guy shoots into the ceiling. And so when they said. These people being interviewed who went through this said, like, they heard all the noises. The smoke clears, and then he's still standing there. So they realize that he's just trying. He's trying to prove that he means business, but he actually doesn't want to hurt or kill anybody. But he just feels like he's being pushed to the.

[B]

Limit. That guy who volunteered, they don't say his.

[A]

Name. I couldn't find his name anywhere. I know.

[B]

Amazing. Martin Hardstark. What was my.

[A]

Dad. Oh, my God. Where's your family? My dad's like, oh, that was a crazy night at.

[B]

Work. Well, I used to go to co ed bars.

[A]

Sometimes. I took some night classes over at Cal. Yeah, that's what he would call it. Cal. So. So a couple of the women in the show say that they think that actually gave. Made him feel very empowered and made him feel better. So it. It brought the level of tension down a little bit because it was.

[B]

Like. Because he could choose who's gonna kill him or.

[A]

Not. Exactly. Right. And he kind of chose the best, better thing. But that's also from outside. The cops freak out because they think someone, someone yells, I'm about to be executed. And then there's gunshots.

[B]

So it's so hard to hear these things and not think of like cell.

[A]

Phones. I.

[B]

Know. You know what I mean? Because you're like, oh, I wonder if someone had their cell phone open and was talking. It's like there weren't cell.

[A]

Phones. 1990. There was nothing. Yeah, it's so.

[B]

Weird. There's.

[A]

Nothing. It was such a bizarrely innocent time in some ways. And then also media wise, very stupid because the fact that the news was running it live, like people got to watch it as it happened, was very.

[B]

Bad. And it bolstered him, probably because he was now a big deal and everyone was. It's that thing of like, don't say the killer's name, say the victim's names, because that's what they want us to be.

[A]

Famous. Exactly right. And it gave the police no control. Whatever happened and whatever the news guy decided to talk about was what was happening. So when the newscasters found out that he had been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, they said it, he saw it. Then he got all upset.

[B]

Totally. Or his wife left him or.

[A]

Whatever. He sees it. And then he's like, it's more. And it's also feeding into his paranoid schizophrenic idea that the government is in his head. All of the things that were happening were feeding into all his worst.

[B]

Fears. Wow, that makes.

[A]

Sense. And escalating it essentially. Okay, so they put snipers on the roof across the street. And at one point they're like. Because they're trying to, you know, now it's, it's 4:00am, it's get, you know, it's been going on. So they decide the snipers are like, these streetlights are actually compromising our position here. If he looks out the way he can see us sitting here, he might freak out. So somebody else decides to shoot out the streetlights. Well, then he hears, Dashti hears that happening outside and gets all.

[B]

Agitated. Jesus, that was a bad.

[A]

Idea. Yeah, that's when they said his mood starts to swing from he's raged, screaming, going crazy to sitting quietly and mumbling to himself for long periods of time. At 5am he tells the bartender, Give everybody four beers. Everybody drink and have fun. And one of the women being interviewed says, that's when we knew he was going to kill all of us because he basically wanted it all to be okay for us. When it happened, he Thought like that it was clear that the plan was like have your last four beers, have your like final hurrah.

[B]

Party. Oh my.

[A]

God. And that's when it got super scary. So he has a briefcase just for the details. In the briefcase he has a large caliber revolver, two handguns, a fully automatic pistol. Oh, sorry, no. The handguns were, one was fully automatic and one was semi automatic. And then he has ammunition for all three. So he's just to going, got. It's like they're, he's not going anywhere. He's got a briefcase full of stuff. As they're watching the news, the news reports that the boy that he shot in the chest died at the hospital. Oh no. And, and Dashi starts going crazy going, I didn't do it. I did not kill him. They're lying. They're it, this is the government. They're lying. I didn't do it. And he loses his oh my God. Which I think is another really sad part about it because it's like he went in there, he had this big plan. He was gonna, he wanted to defile America's citizens. He wanted to do to America what America was doing to him. But he actually didn't like, actually deep down that he wasn't a killer.

[B]

Really. Well he wanted to do that but he didn't. Doesn't sound like, because letting all the people who got hurt go is just such a. Go get help, you know? Know.

[A]

It'S. Yeah, it does. It's not what like a, you know, psychopath would do or a person that's like I've got this plan and here's my perfect revenge. It's like a person with a serious mental issue who's trying to fix the, the complete abject desperation of his own life. It's.

[B]

Horrifying. So.

[A]

Anyway, so. Okay, so, so he tells one of the female hostages to go into, to see if she can go find, go into the kitchen, which is now dark, and find a light switch. Like he wanted to go into the back room for some reason. Well, she goes in there and then sees that there's an exit door and she gets the fuck.

[B]

Out. Yeah, you.

[A]

Do. And then she goes to the police and like reports everything that's going on and updates everything and, and Then another, around 4am Another female hostage, she had moved into and hid in the dining room area and she managed to open like an accordion style door that led to the hotel lobby. So she got out too. So then around 6:15 in the morning, the rear kitchen door opens again and a Third female hostage who was sent into the kitchen to find a.

[B]

Light. He did not learn his lesson, does.

[A]

He? Yeah, he just wants that light so bad that he's not seeing his mistake. So she gets out too. So now there's 33 people still in the pub with him. Now the problem is, again, because it's the 90s, there's no cell phones or anything. The whole phone system is the hotel's phone system. So it's, you know, that crazy thing of, like. It's. All the lines are connected to the lobby. So it took them a really long time to just go straight to the pub.

[B]

Phone.

[A]

Wow. So they finally start calling the pub phone and he won't answer it. And he's saying, they're just trying to get to me. They're trying to distract me. And just not coincidentally, but by chance or whatever, the. Is that the same? The phone's cord couldn't stretch past the bar. So when the phone was ringing, he was like, bring it to me. But it couldn't reach where he was. So he would have had to get up and walk to the bar to answer the phone, which he believed was a trick. So he makes a guy. Yeah, it's just one more thing where it's like everything's feeding into his paranoia. So he makes a guy get on the phone, and again, by proxy, they're trying to negotiate, which it doesn't work. And the guy is demanding yelling stuff and whatever. And the proxy is kind of trying to say the calm version of what the guy is saying because he's like, I want $16 trillion for my mental telepathy services. It's all that stuff. So they had. Basically, they knew they were at an impasse because they weren't gonna be able to negotiate with him. There was no. They had done everything that they could in terms of negotiation. So they knew now that the waiting strategy, that part was over because they had to take some kind of an action. So they decided they were gonna do. Do diversion tactics, which is basically when the SWAT team goes in in two teams, and one of the team rolls in, like, a flash canister, and then the other team comes in from the other side. So when they. They. It's 7:23 in the morning. So they'd been there for fucking almost eight hours. They roll in the flash canister, and everyone starts screaming. And the cops come in, and the second team opens the door and they're like, get out, get out, get out. So some people are running, and as he stands up from his place where he'd been crouched against the wall and he starts moving toward a booth where he had all these people seated. And when the SWAT team saw him moving toward that group of hostages, they shot him. They. They yelled for him to put the gun down or whatever, and he didn't. And he kept moving. And so they shot him there. And then they got the rest of the hostages out and then they got Dashti into an ambulance and he died on the way to the hospital. Yeah. And Holy. Essentially the they. The news was using high power cameras. They were monitoring police radios, they were seeking public interviews. They were broadcasting detailed and often uncooperated information the entire night and never thinking about what would happen. And they actually, I'm not sure if it was KPIX or a different news place, but. But they had. They reported the SWAT team plan on the news. And the only reason Dashti didn't see it is because he had turned it to a different channel at that.

[B]

Point. What the.

[A]

Fuck? Just by luck, because they were just basically, it was almost like having never been in that scenario before, they were like, let's go with the.

[B]

Story. Let's.

[A]

Keep. It's the reason that, like, it's the reason we are now in this 24 hour news cycle that that is captured and poisoned the minds of so many people. Because the news does it for money and because they keep eyes on the screen. And this was almost like one of the first versions of that and the worst versions of it. So anyway, to date, they say this incident is one of the most significant hostage reports, significant and successful hostage rescue operations in US history.

[B]

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing that they were able to do that without anyone else getting.

[A]

Hurt.

[B]

Yes. You.

[A]

Know. Yeah. They didn't shoot anybody or. No, no innocent bystanders. But it's really crazy when, in that show, watching in the morning light when they. When those people start finally start running and there's just SWAT people all the way up the street going like this. And just people in 80s clothes fucking like booking it up the.

[B]

Street. How have I never seen that?

[A]

It's.

[B]

Yeah. I'm just picturing the Columbine video. The footage of the kids getting out of the. Yeah. And how scary that.

[A]

Is. It's so, so.

[B]

Awful. That is so terrifying. You just gotta wonder what you do in those. Like you personally would do in those situations. And as much as I'm like, it's a thing of like, well, those girls escaped, but like, at what cost, you know? Cause you're always like, well, they're gonna kill someone else because I escaped. But then they were able. Able to probably tell police where he was crouched and what he was doing and what.

[A]

He. Yes, what, like what this situation was inside. Also, the girl that got shot eight times, her friends had to stay behind, so she had all this guilt. She got to leave and her friends were there. So she's like, times. I think, yeah, you got shot eight times, You're. You're free and clear. But I mean, that's. What a terrible scenario to even be.

[B]

In.

[A]

Totally. And yeah, it's just. It just such a crazy fucking unbelievable thing that.

[B]

Happened. Yeah. Well, fuck.

[A]

Man. Yeah, that's a heavy.

[B]

One. Okay, we're back. Are there any updates.

[A]

Karen? Not really like case updates, but because of the way the media covered this story and the live updates of the hostage situation and the updates of the special response team plan, that whole mess. The hostages later sent an open letter to the media asking them to reconsider the way they report future hostage situations, saying some of the broadcasts had put their lives at risk. And as a result of that, news stations changed their policies about reporting breaking news like.

[B]

That. That's incredible. Yeah. Wow. All right, let's head back in to wrap up the show. God.

[A]

Bless.

[B]

Amen. Okay, positive thing this.

[A]

Week. Positive thing this week. Go.

[B]

Ahead. Okay. Last night I got to see the movie the Big Sick, which our friends Emily Gordon in Kumail Nanjiani made. And it was so lovely and such a great romantic story. That is shitty. It was weird because I've known Emily for a long time and she told me the story about how it's a story of how they started dating. And she told me this and just to watch it, and Kumail's in it and Zoe Kazan, who's so fucking talented. It was just. Please go watch it. It's just such a great movie.

[A]

Of like, is it.

[B]

Out? I think it's coming out this weekend or.

[A]

Something. Okay.

[B]

Cool. Yeah. But it was just so lovely and it was great to see. Great to see that. It made me really.

[A]

Happy.

[B]

Nice. Yeah. Cool. What about.

[A]

You? Well, I guess I'll just do. I can do the simple one of that. I get to write on baskets this new season, which is very.

[B]

Exciting. That's.

[A]

Amazing. I love that job and I love the people that work there, and it's just like a very, very, very cool room to work.

[B]

In.

[A]

Yeah. And that's so great.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah. So that's. Even though it's hard to have what. This is now a full time job, this podcast. So to have two is challenging, but we've done it.

[B]

Before. We have. Okay, we're back. Karen, how do you feel about the fact that in this episode you're getting another writing job, you're picking up a new.

[A]

Job? Dude, it made me laugh so hard. Or it's just like you were talking about it. Just like, they're gonna. They'll make it work. They made it work before or whatever. We're just like, here comes the breaking point of like, I worked my whole life to be a sitcom writer. It was finally happening, and it's like. But now you have to quit because you have this other thing that you never saw coming literally sitting in your.

[B]

Lap.

[A]

Totally. And, like. And you can't do.

[B]

It. You have to say no to one of, I think one of the best shows it's ever been on tv. You have to say no to it. But, I mean, the saving grace is that it's not a permanent. It wasn't a permanent job. It was, you know, however many.

[A]

Weeks.

[B]

Right? So that was, like, the way you thought you could get through.

[A]

It. But shit, man, it was hard. I mean, it was hard for you and I, everybody involved and just exhausting in general. And then also that's why so many of my stories turned into me. Just retelling. I survives because it was just this constant churn where I'm like, yeah, I can't write up a whole new story for myself this week. It's wild. I mean, the shit that we actually just did because it was in front of us and we got it done is pretty hilarious. It's like, looking back, it's laugh out loud funny. But at the time, we were just like, well, this is just what we're gonna have to get.

[B]

Done. Yeah. And it feels like. So we're in episode 73. So it just kind of feels like we were just white knuckling it and think. Well, it feels like we were. We were growing so much, and it was so exciting that we were, like, high off of that. And then there's a point at, I think, around now where we start white knuckling it. And we kind of haven't stopped doing that.

[A]

Since. No, because every. I mean, I was in a version of show business for the. For 15 years prior, and I would. What I would tell you was what I believed, because for 15 years, that's what I saw, which is like, you can't. Don't ever make decisions like this is gonna go on forever, because when it stops, you'll be fucked. So you have to Pretend like it's gonna end soon. But there's another side to that, which is like, well, that isn't what's happening. And you're basically setting up safety nets or, like, acting like that and killing yourself because you have all these safety nets. Like, this success. And this show is such an outlier. And we're so lucky. We're so lucky that I. I have never believed in it, and I refuse to believe in.

[B]

It. Well, Vince and I were in couples therapy recently and we were talking about, like, the tour right now and how stressful it is and everything. And it's been 10 years. And then I. I said, you know, this podcast feels like something that happened to all of us. Not that we.

[A]

Did.

[B]

Yes. Like it wasn't a plan happening to us, which is. We're so lucky that it chose us. But. But it's. Yeah. So definitely been like a double Xanax kind of.

[A]

Thing. Oh, I thought you said double Z amex, where I'm like, do we get double points for this shit? Oh, my God, we can fly to the moon. Cause we have so many amethyst.

[B]

Points. All right, let's. Should we close this.

[A]

Out? Let's close it out. So this episode was originally titled Chill Satanist, which we love, but if.

[B]

We were naming it today, perhaps we.

[A]

Would call it I love Jamestown, which is what Georgia says because she meant Jonestown and. Cause we're very tired. How so many. Because we're just human.

[B]

Beings. No. Thank you for making an excuse, but I am so Jamestown. I am. That's me. And then we could also name it so Many Bad Carls. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That was kind of crazy how many bad Carls there were in this.

[B]

Episode. Truly. Well, thanks so much for listening to another episode of Rewind. We're gonna go back to 2017 and let us say goodbye to you there, please. Well, thanks for listening, you.

[A]

Guys. Yes, thank.

[B]

You. We hope everything is great. We hope you are happy. This has been my favorite murder, you guys. Thank you. Stay sexy and don't get.

[A]

Murdered.

[B]

Bye. Bye, Mimi. Want a cookie? Get ready for your next TV obsession. All's Fake. Starring Kim Kardashian, Naomi Watts, Niecy Nash, Betts, Teyana Taylor. With Sarah Paulson and Glenn Close. A team of fierce female divorce attorneys leave a male dominated firm to start their own. Filled with scandalous secrets and shifting allegiances, both in the courtroom and within their own ranks, these ladies know that lawyers are a girl's best friend. Don't miss the two part season finale of All's Fair on December 9th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribe terms apply. So usually on okay Story time, our audience will send in their relationship problems. And the okay Storytime squad gives some good advice.

[A]

Goofily. But today, we're not giving out our usual.

[B]

Advice. Our producer Riley says we're giving something else. So what are we doing today.

[A]

Riley? Today we're playing a little game. Game, says the man. I bought special gifts for you guys from ebay. Each one picked with one of you in mind. Yeah, Dakota, if you want to.

[B]

Guess. All.

[A]

Right. There is a gift at my.

[B]

Feet. Open that thing. And now it is in my.

[A]

Hands. Oh, I feel like it's got.

[B]

To be our resident gamer.

[A]

Key. This is the rectangle of.

[B]

Childhood. It's a portable game.

[A]

Console. I used to have this as a kid. This game console I used to play all the time. And you know when your mom.

[B]

Came into the room when you're a.

[A]

Kid and like, you're pretending to.

[B]

Sleep. But Riley, what a thoughtful gift. Yeah, right? Thank you so much.

[A]

Riley. You're crushing it. But we have one more.

[B]

Gift. Yeah, let's open.

[A]

It. Boom. Oh.

[B]

Camera. An old timey.

[A]

Camera. That's.

[B]

Right. Classic. This is.

[A]

Awesome. Yeah, because you know how I.

[B]

Love to take pictures of my travels. Yeah, you're always somewhere, whether it's in Kyrgyzstan with some nomads or just New York, you know, with a nice little. A piece of trash or a rat taking pictures with the birds. So, Riley, you got all this from.

[A]

Ebay? Dude, ebay. It was really fun finding it with you guys. Like, I had very specific things for each one of you. Yeah, it was all.

[B]

There. Thanks, Riley. And thank you for ebay. And guys shop ebay for millions.

[A]

Of finds, each with a story. EBay. Things people love. Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder with a.

[B]

Dozen apps that don't talk to each.

[A]

Other. One for sales, another for inventory.

[B]

A separate one for accounting. That's software.

[A]

Overload. Odoo is the all in one platform that replaces them all. CRM, accounting, inventory, e commerce, hr. Fully integrated, easy to use, and built to grow with your business. Thousands have already made the switch. Why not you try Odoo for free at.

[B]

Odoo. Odoo. Com. That's Odoo. Com.