Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 74: Jews Vs. Catholics

Summary

My Favorite Murder: Rewind with Karen & Georgia – Episode 74: Jews Vs. Catholics (12/10/2025)

Main Theme & Purpose

In this “Rewind” installment, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark of the true crime comedy podcast revisit their 2017 episode “Jews Vs. Catholics.” They reflect on the episode's original content, share new insights, address listener corrections, highlight comedic and personal moments, and provide updates where possible. The episode focuses on two central stories: the eerie Carbon Copy Murders and the Annecy shootings, while weaving in the hosts’ signature humor, reflections on religion, and engagement with Murderino culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Revisiting "Jews Vs. Catholics" (Starts ~01:30)

• Recap of the 2017 Episode: Karen and Georgia react to their earlier banter about Jewish and Catholic guilt, poking fun at their respective upbringings and personal quirks.
• Playful Religious Rivalry:
  • Karen jokes about new Catholic guilt (“Now I’m Catholic… Hard. Yeah, right? It sucks.” - 03:08)
  • Georgia claims lack of guilt in Judaism (“That’s the glory of Judaism” - 04:53)
• Confessional Humor: Both swap stories about childhood guilt, confessionals, and stealing as kids.

2. Diversity, Satanism & Listener Engagement (~05:15)

• Listener Email on Modern Satanism:
  • Explains Satanism as an atheistic religion focusing on autonomy and separation of church and state.
  • Highlights feminist beliefs and playful activism (e.g., Baphomet statues, potlucks).
  • Hosts praise the group’s humanism and PR savvy.
  • Quote: “Our version of Satanism is what you might call an atheistic religion. Most of us do not believe in God, nor by extension, the devil.” (Listener Simone, 07:18)
• Relational Reflection: Karen notes the contrast between perceptions of Satanism and the actual politics behind movements like the Church of Satan.

3. Corrections, Inside Jokes & Community Shoutouts (~10:10)

• Corrections Corner:
  • Wine memory (“Boone’s Farm was the wine you were trying to think of…” - 10:27)
  • Clarifies place names and pop culture references (“Moraga is the city... Adrienne actually just texted me…” - 11:38)
• Origins of Podcast Catchphrases:
  • “Hi” and “hey/bay” stories (“I’ve always mentioned that is something like a coined phrase.” - 15:13)
  • “Coochie twinge” – their own invented expression.
• Trademark Banter: Assert “Stay Sexy, Don’t Get Murdered” as their own (“Don’t fucking steal it. Yeah, we made that up.” - 16:21)

4. On Building the Podcast & Team (16:38)

• Acknowledgment of Producer Steven Ray Morris: After months, they give him an overdue paycheck on-air, celebrating their DIY roots (“You’re on schedule to be employed like a normal person.” - 18:49).

5. Current Events, News Overload & Positivity (~19:38)

• Managing Overwhelm: Karen and Georgia discuss news overload, social media negativity, and efforts to focus on positivity and community (“People are making an effort to... make sure you know they’re a friend.” - 20:28).
• Finding Balance: Turn to shows and comfort activities for sanity.

6. Podcast Rituals & Listener Contributions (~25:06)

• Homemade Theme Song Remix: Shout-out to a fan who remixed their theme (“It’s Georgia’s early Rave Days meets Karen’s song meets Forensic Files meets My Song.” - 25:13)
• Fan Gifts: Share joy at the oddball and heartfelt listener gifts, fostering a close “Murderino” community.

7. Jewish & Catholic Roots – A Comedic Exchange (~29:41)

• Open, affectionate swap about their religious upbringings and family dynamics.
• “I think Catholics and Jews... there’s a lot of similarities in the families there.” – Georgia (30:02)

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Featured True Crime Stories

A. The Carbon Copy Murders

Host: Karen (~46:44)

Summary/Timestamps

• Background (47:54): In 1817, Mary Ashford is found raped and murdered in Erdington, England, after a holiday dance.
• Investigation: Abraham Thornton is arrested but acquitted. A medieval law allows Mary’s brother to challenge him to trial by battle (57:03), but the brother declines, so Thornton goes free.
• 157 Years Later (60:13): In 1975, Barbara Forrest is murdered on the same date, same age, near the same spot, in identical circumstances—and the main suspect's surname is also Thornton.
• Supernatural Parallels: Both victims shared birthdays, changed into new dresses at a friend’s house before a dance, were found within 300 yards of each other, and had premonitions about their fate.
• Reaction: “Isn’t that insanity?... If this is true... it’s so insane if not, I still fucking love it.” – Karen (62:28)

Notable Quotes

• Georgia: “Coochie twinge... but you’re saying that with your leg up in the air.” (63:44)
• Karen: “Carbon copy murders, ladies and gentlemen.” (63:40)

Update (Post-story, ~64:36):

• New research and books have revisited the old case, and Mysteries Abound remains a rich resource for more details.

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B. The Annecy Shootings

Host: Georgia (67:52)

Summary/Timestamps

• Incident (68:11): 2012, France—A British-Iraqi family (Al-Hilis) and a cyclist are gunned down in a remote lay-by. Two daughters, aged 4 and 7, survive amidst horror.
• Investigation (72:01): Mysterious, skillful, professional-style killings. Multiple conspiracy theories: government hits, inheritance feuds, CIA or SAS involvement, road rage, random violence.
• Suspects: Includes a dismissed local cop with a motorcycle and rare gun, and various personal and international angles.
• Unsolved Complexity: Host speculation on motive, media sensationalism, and bias, with the cyclist’s death possibly the real focus.
• Host Banter: Play out speculation—“You ready for a hardcore murder mystery?” – Georgia (83:16), “Who the fuck... can beat a seven year old with a gun.” – Karen (94:38)

Post-story Updates (107:22):

• 2025 French investigators suspect a Swiss-trained soldier with possible links to similar past murders, further profiling of the killer points to an ex-soldier type.
• Benedict Cumberbatch is producing a series, “The Annecy Murders,” to potentially drum up renewed interest and solutions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Georgia (on Satanism): “Maybe you’ll fucking learn something. Maybe you’ll stop being of the devil.” (06:09)
• Karen (on news overload): “They only stay around to either have their fears confirmed or learn a new fear. That’s just what the news is.” (20:43)
• Karen (on familial help): “Some people are just... we’re all good at something different. Well, exactly. And she goes, I said, thank you for momming me through this. And she was like, it’s my favorite thing to do.” (115:21)
• On Jewish & Catholic Traditions: “We dig ourselves. We love hearing ourselves talk. We’re great.” – Georgia (26:28)
• On cold cases: “This is exactly why. I just don’t think it’s the complicated answers.” – Georgia (98:29)
• On systemic injustice: “Let’s stop murdering each other. Ironically enough. Let’s stop murdering each other.” – Karen (107:01)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:15 – Show begins (skip ads/intro)
• 05:46 – Explaining Satanism, listener email
• 10:27 – Corrections Corner
• 16:38 – Team/building the show, producer shout-out
• 25:05 – New theme/jokes about remixes
• 29:41 – Jewish vs Catholic banter
• 46:44 – The Carbon Copy Murders
• 64:36 – Carbon Copy Murders update and additional source notes
• 67:52 – The Annecy Shootings
• 107:22 – Annecy case updates (2025) and new theories
• 109:34 – Uplifting wrap-up, book discussion, and self-care
• 116:02 – Reflections on asking for help, family ties
• 118:14 – Episode wrap and possible titles

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, irreverent, and candid
• Comedic interludes balance heavy content
• Authentic reflections, tangents, and affection for each other and listeners
• Blunt on social issues: e.g., racism, media bias, gun violence

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For New Listeners

This episode offers:

• A blend of historical true crime, cold case mysteries, humor, and cultural commentary
• Heartfelt confessions and laughter about family, work, and anxiety
• Fierce support for inclusivity, learning, and staying informed—while using dark humor and mutual support as a tool for coping
• Signature sign-off: “Stay sexy and don’t get murdered”

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Further Resources

• Mysteries Abound Podcast (Paul Rex)
• “The Murder of Mary Ashford” by Naomi Clifford
• Benedict Cumberbatch’s upcoming Annecy Murders series
• Startup by Doree Shafrir
• Black Mad Wheel by Josh Malerman

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“Stay sexy and don’t get murdered.” – Karen & Georgia (118:58)

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[A]

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[B]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[A]

Every Wednesday we recap our old episodes with all new commentary, updates and insights. You're welcome.

[B]

Today we're recapping episode 74, which we named Jews versus Catholics.

[A]

I mean.

This episode came out. I don't even know what to say. This episode came out on June 22, 2017.

[B]

I was so surprised when I saw that man. Oh, my God. All right, let's get into it. Let's listen to the intro of episode 74.

Molly, you in danger, girl.

Stay sexy.

Talking about murder.

[A]

Welcome to my favorite murder.

[B]

To my favorite murder.

[A]

Your favorite.

Murder podcast. I regret saying that.

[B]

Leave it in. Okay. Sit in it. I don't know if anyone's ever said this, but fuck the haters.

[A]

I feel like this is a new idea. I know. And do you mean the social media haters, everyone. Just any hater.

[B]

Any haters. They're going to hate.

[A]

They're going to hell.

[B]

They're going to hell.

[A]

That's what you're going to say?

[B]

Yeah. I believe in hell now. New new update on the podcast. Oh, neat.

[A]

You're Catholic now.

[B]

Now I'm Catholic.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

Just like that.

[A]

How's it been?

[B]

Hard.

[A]

Yeah, right? It sucks.

[B]

I'm suddenly Velcro to everything I've ever done in my life.

[A]

You feel guilty for things other people have done. I shouldn't have so much guilt.

[B]

I shouldn't have let them do that. Even though I didn't know them when.

[A]

I was a child.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I used to think about how disappointed Jesus was in me and get so sad. And then I'd just be like, how am I. I can never make good on this. No. How am I gonna make good on this?

[B]

What the. How the fuck?

[A]

Here's how I'll make good on it. I'll go into a dark room and talk to a man behind a screen about the specifics of what makes me a bad person. I'm eight.

[B]

He sounds legit. He sounds like a good guy who's helping people.

[A]

The whole system. Seems really like a humanitarian.

[B]

Yeah. They're trying on you people, but you guys just keep failing them. These guys behind the screen.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

They're like, what am I here for? You should come in one week and be like, I'm good. Yeah. But you just keep bringing. Stealing shit from your sister if you win it. Am I right? Did you do that ever?

[A]

Impure thoughts. Oh, yeah. Stealing from my sister. Stealing from my. My dad always had a coin jar in the closet.

[B]

How are you. He put it in there so you could be a child. Right. And steal from it.

[A]

That's kind of what they're for. But I would actually take it to Coin Star and change it in for $80. And then.

[B]

No. Holy shit.

[A]

Not really.

[B]

I stole from my sister, like, those stupid little, like, children's lockers that they would have.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Like, come on. I would open it and I would steal her money, and I would go across the street and buy Reese's Pieces and squeeze it, and I've never felt guilty about it one day in my life.

[A]

Oh, that's the glory of Judaism.

[B]

I'm giving it an Italian.

[A]

Oh, the Italian Jews are the best ones.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know.

[A]

Food's great. No, they don't exist. I was like, whoa, we get all of the Italians. Yeah, they're Catholic.

[B]

Love Italian food, though.

[A]

I mean, I love the mustache. Sorry, go ahead.

[B]

No, you go.

[A]

That's all I was gonna say.

[B]

Speaking of religion, I have something to read to you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Remember last week I did a. Like, I did an occult killing. I do Satan cult kind of thing.

[A]

It was intense.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you. And so thank you. I mean, that's what you want in this podcast is, like, if you could, like, describe your story in one word, like, it should be intense. Yeah, Right. That's for sure.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I mentioned, like, it was a Satanist thing, and at some point I was just like, I just want to say that Satanism isn't like that. And then moved on because I Don't know how to explain.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so someone explained it. Someone sent an email to us and it said, hey, Karen and Georgia, I'd like to think that I'm a. That I'm pretty chill. Plus, I'm a Satanist.

[A]

Sweet.

[B]

Your last episode cracked me up. So I thought I'd take the opportunity to tell you a little bit about modern Satanism. Skippers don't.

[A]

Skip, Skip, this is important. You're Skippers. You need this the most.

[B]

Maybe you'll fucking learn something.

[A]

Maybe you'll stop being of the devil.

[B]

There are all kinds of Satanists. The ones that believe in worship. The ones that believe and worship the actual devil are not what you might call mainstream Satanisms. More common Satanists. More commonly, you'll find people who belong to the Church of Satan or the Satanic Temple. I remember the Satanic Temple and also a local group called Satanic San Francisco. Like, good morning.

[A]

That's where.

[B]

Satanic San Francisco. Here's the local booth.

[A]

That's where I lived when I lived in San Francisco.

[B]

Hey, what neighborhood did you live in?

[A]

This is fucking hell. Oh my God. I only have $11 and I have to take the bus to two different jobs. What bus did you take that?

[B]

The 666. Come on.

[A]

The one that went down Lincoln, I think.

[B]

Down at 22.

[A]

No, the one that. Basically. The one that went diagonally across town.

[B]

Not the fun Satanic one.

[A]

No way. The one that smelled like feet.

[B]

You gotta think the Satanic vest smells like feet a little bit too though, right?

[A]

Or candles.

[B]

Candles.

[A]

Okay, got.

[B]

I remember the Satanic temple. Satanic San Francisco. Our version of Satanism is what you might call an atheistic religion. Most of us do not believe in God, nor by extension, the devil. What we do believe in is a personal autonomy, equal rights, and the separation of church and state. We've just co opted the imagery created by mainstream, mostly Christian religions to represent our opposition to some of the more oppressive beliefs. So when some government office wants to put up a Ten Commandment statue on public land, we'll be there to ask for our own Baphomet statue.

[A]

Baphomet.

[B]

Baphomet statue. Thank you. After all, the government can't advocate for any one religion. Thanks First Amendment. So they either have to represent all religions fairly or be hands off with all religions. The Satanic Temple also has a strong feminist view, which was what attracted me to it in the first place. Our emphasis on personal freedom also includes freedom over our bodies, meaning a woman's right to choose is sacrosanct they have fun with their religion. They have potlucks. They have screenings of movies like Rosemary's Babies. They have letter writing campaigns where they curse the Trump's cabinet. We might not believe in curses, but we wanted to grab the attention of those who do. And even a book club.

Right now we're reading a book about the Satanic panic in the 1990s, which sounds fucking awesome. So it's obvious why most of our members are also Murderinos. Thank you for a wonderful show that is funny and fascinating. Stay sexy, don't get murdered. And something Satanus.

[A]

Probably hail or something.

[B]

Yeah. Hail Satan. I think something like that. Simone, that's awesome.

[A]

Yeah, Simone, thank you for providing information, but I think that's like such a clear. In the. In the Satanic panic days when the Church of Satan would show up, being from the San Francisco Bay area and the Anton lavey and the Church of Satan had a real, like, it had a real. It was scary. And people would talk about it in these very serious, scary terms. And it. It like, that letter makes me so happy because really, it's a political group.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what they're saying is, like, this country was founded on the separation of church and state for a very important reason. Because when the government becomes just chooses a religion that they're going to represent and not others, that means the people who aren't in that religious group are going to be oppressed.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so it's actually kind of badassy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, everything about that is super badass. Y. But I mean. And at the same time, I only can think of my Aunt Mary, the nun who would be like, I don't know if I want you to be saying that you love the church.

[B]

No, she wouldn't be saying that. She'd been saying Latin prayers over your soul.

[A]

Although. But, no, but she actually might be going. I can see their point because she's the most fair, lovely person ever. But.

[B]

Well, when I said Satanists are actually cool, that's what I meant last week.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

But I couldn't put it into words.

[A]

They're kind of humanists that are being. Anarchists are anarchists.

[B]

And they're using. I mean, it's almost like they're really great PR people. Yeah. Good for them. So I'm happy that that got sent because I think it was necessary. Do you have any corrections? That was my corrections corner.

[A]

Yes, I have a couple. Let's see. Well, these are the tweets we've gotten of like, this is now Mirror Corrections corner, where people are correct, giving us the corrections, and we're just reading that loud. So Boone's Farm was the wine you were trying to think of?

[B]

I was gonna say mine was that if you had guessed Arbor mixed, that's fine. But what I actually remember.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But what I actually like, I feel like that's a fair one that people were like, is it Arbor Mist? I mean, I got this on all platforms, all social media platforms.

[A]

You got a telegram at the front door.

[B]

Is it.

[A]

Is the wine Arbor Mist?

[B]

Elvis took a shit and it just said Arbor Mist, and it was shit. It was really weird. But, yes, if you guessed Boone's Farm, you are correct. Of the weird wine. I couldn't remember. And so many people wrote, like, I was screaming Boone's Farm. When you said, I bet people are screaming. Whatever the name is. Yeah, it's true.

[A]

Yeah. That one really had a ripple effect.

[B]

So many. Because everyone has been hungover in their lives off Boone's Farm.

[A]

Yes. Because the sugar content is, like, 50%. It's some horrible thing.

[B]

Well, what do you expect when you buy purple wine?

[A]

Well, and also, if you drank purple wine when you were a teen, how are you supposed to remember anything at this point? So we're. Everything's fine.

[B]

Okay, go on.

[A]

Moraga is the city that is in the hills near Oakland and near Berkeley and blah, blah, blah. That Adrienne actually just texted me because she just listened to that episode, and she was like. The text I just got, like, right before I pulled up here was, dude, are you serious? It's Moraga. And I was like, okay.

[B]

Because I still haven't heard of it.

[A]

Yes. But I absolutely know it. And I think we probably played them in softball or something in high school. But, like, out of context. No, it just made me realize I've lived in LA longer than I lived in Petaluma.

[B]

Congratulations.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

Don't you think so? I think so.

[A]

I mean. I mean, when I did the arson inspector, who was the arsonist secretly? John Orr.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A couple of weeks ago, the TV set he burned down that everyone sent, did you ever get any of these messages? He. It was the Waltons set.

[B]

Oh. I was thinking of a television that, like, you have in your television set that you have in your living room. And I'm like, I don't remember.

[A]

That was.

[B]

I just tuned out.

[A]

I think it was the case. It was at the very end of the case. It was the last thing he burned.

[B]

An actual TV show set.

[A]

Yeah. Exterior pretending that we're at the Waltons house.

[B]

What's the Waltons? I don't remember that one.

[A]

It was the old one. It was like the whole family, they lived in the mountains in probably West Virginia or something like that. And there was, like, the grandma and the dad and the mom and fucking, like, six kids. Good night, John boy. Good night, Mary Ellen.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's the Waltons.

[B]

All right. Well, sucks to be them.

[A]

Yeah. Hopefully no one was inside the wall. Oh, when it burned.

[B]

No.

[A]

Then the other one was. There's two now. So a bunch of people thought I had said last week. What happened was. And a lot of people thought I was referencing the podcast Another Round, which is Tracy Clayton's podcast, who I am. I've never met her in real life, but I claim to be friends with.

[B]

Her because we've talked.

[A]

We've talked on Twitter.

[B]

Friends is loose, especially. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, she. I think she'd pick me up at the airport if I needed her to.

[B]

I get that there's a lot of people I haven't really, quote, met, but.

[A]

They'Re my friends, but we kind of know each other. And so she. I guess that's something she says on her podcast, but I. It's.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I'm quoting the first. That's what the Fresh Prince of Bel Air would say when he was trying to make an excuse for something. But full props to another round. And those women who are hilarious and our friends. Whatever.

Now, this is the last one, and this is the one that we get the most. People think. Some people think that we invented hay or bay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then oftentimes people ask, are you quoting Alaska from RuPaul's Drag Race? I actually am quoting my friends.

Haley Schaefer, Tenille Cobb, and Hannah Pinter, who were APs with me on, like, a bunch of TV shows I've worked on. And we. When we were at our unhappiest, I would, like, walk up. I was oftentimes their boss, and I would have to go up and be like, can you guys get me a thing? But to kind of. Sometimes it was either to cut the tension of, like, I have to now tell you what to do, or we hated. At one job, we hated the people around us so much that we did it as loud. So I would walk up to ask them for something, which should have been almost a silent transaction, and instead I'd go, hi. And I'd go, hi. And we would do it as obnoxiously as possible.

[B]

So I feel like. And I feel like. And I Can't remember life for this podcast, but I'm pretty sure that, like, that was. Hi. It was in all my emails, like, when I wanted to be like, hi, I have to ask you for something. Yeah. I would write H I, I, I, I E. You know, like, I just think it's a thing that people do. But we. I've always mentioned that that is something that is like, a coined phrase.

[A]

Yes. On Drag Race, Alaska made it popular. It was like, a thing that people are copying. But when I. The last time I saw Hannah and Haley and Tenille, I was like, where did. Are you guys doing it? Because Alaska did it on Drag Race. And they're all like, I don't know. I just started doing it at some point. Nobody knew our source.

[B]

That's the same thing for me. And I recently were talking about the phrase coochie twinge. Just like, one of my. Like, when you're just like, oh, God, no. It's like, that's getting a coochie twinge. And like, you were like, well, someone had to have said that first. And I'm like, I don't fucking think so. Like, I just remember.

[A]

Did you look it up?

[B]

No, but I just remember. Of course I didn't look it up. That's work.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Oh. But I just remember saying it all the time with friends and, like, it being the best description. And the first time I heard it was from a friend, it wasn't like, so, man, everything is fucking appropriated except for stay sexy, don't get murdered. That's ours. Don't fucking steal it.

[A]

Yeah, we made that up.

[B]

Listen, for sure.

[A]

Here comes the lawsuit. It actually turns out in 1947, Dorothy Parker said it.

[B]

No, no, the trademark is. Then it's expired.

[A]

Sorry, that was all for me. I just thought I'd update all of those.

[B]

That looks great. Oh, we have a present to give.

[A]

On this episode on the air. Present.

[B]

Listen, look, it's been five months.

[A]

Steven Ray Morris has been working for us on the good faith that someday we will pay him. Someday.

[B]

Not even some. Like, that's not even the thing he's been waiting for. The someday is that Karen and Georgia, as human beings, will get our shits together enough to set up a fucking payroll as, like, a regular business, which is, like, so daunting to both of us in a way that's like, I don't know how to adult.

[A]

No, we don't.

[B]

That's why we fucking hired Steven. That's right.

[A]

You're supposed to be the adult Steven. But then we have to do the.

[B]

Work, to pay you. And we brought you your walking papers in the form of a check that I feel kind of bad because, man, the government took out so much of it.

[A]

Hey, that's like.

[B]

It's so big. It's huge.

[A]

Let him have it.

[B]

Here you go. Oh, my gosh. I'm like, dun, dun, dun, dun. And Elvis just rips it up. Elvis, Elvis, rip it up.

[A]

Steven, look at it. We want your on camera reaction.

[B]

Yeah. But you're only going to be disappointed. Oh. He's like, I can't pay rent this month. Oh, my gosh. Oh, I can totally pay rent this month.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

Yay. Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you. Thank you for paying you the money that we promised you in January that we owed you. You're welcome. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

I'm like, totally red right now. And this check is so heavy. Steve at adp, I want to say who's our. When I got. First of all, when I emailed him, he was like, I can help you with anything you need. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered, Steve. And I was just like, oh, this is my friend.

[A]

So he.

[B]

The whole time, he walked me through everything. He was so patient and cool because I was like, I don't know how I doing. Yeah, they were the. The company was so great. I'm so happy we went through them. I mean, his name is Steve, so. And his name is Steve.

[A]

We're golden.

[B]

Yeah. Does he have a mustache? Probably. He does now.

[A]

What if he has, like. He's the exact opposite of you. He has, like, his hair parts on the other side and he has a weird Abraham or like, what do you call it? Like an Amish beard on the bottom instead of a mustache on the top.

[B]

We're gonna become best friends. Or what if it's actually Steven? He has to get a job at ADP because we're not fucking paying him enough. And he's just like, no, it's me. Let me show you exactly how to do this word for word.

[A]

I'll do everything.

[B]

Well, congrat.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

Six months. We'll see you again with a paycheck. No, it's monthly now. It's monthly now. Yay.

[A]

Yay. You're on. You're on schedule to be employed like a normal person.

[B]

You're on the take.

[A]

It's very exciting that you are a part of our team, Steven. You really help us so much and save us so much pain. So much pain.

[B]

And I love that the people in this little group Are like, people we care about. This little. Like this little group of Steven and Vince.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No, I'm. This is my favorite thing to do in the world. Yay.

[A]

More than the Purr cast, you have to say yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yay. Your co host is like, yeah, I'm.

[B]

Gonna just put a version where she only hears where it just stops.

[A]

Yeah. No, can we get an. Edit yourself out?

[B]

Yes. Yeah. Get a clean now. Out in there. Cool. Anything else? A lot of murders happening in the world, but I really don't want to talk about them.

[A]

So much heavy shit.

Yeah.

[B]

I got real depressed yesterday. Like, when we were like. It was like five and we had decided not to record that line. So I was like, I had the night free and like, do you want to go out to eat? And I'm like, of course. Like, that's my dream. But then I was just like, I don't want to go anywhere. Nowhere seems. And I realized it was because I had just been reading the news.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was so depressed. Yeah.

[A]

It's only bad news now.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And it's one thing after the other. It's just every. From every direction, you know, it's terrible, terrible news. But I will say this. I feel like people are making an effort to. If they are not the enemy, they are making an effort to make sure, you know, they're a friend. I feel like that's happening more and more these days.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

I feel like it's the thing to keep your eye out for because it's important. Because if you focus, the news is only going to tell you bad stuff. It's how they make their money. They do not make money with their. This dog is best friends the goat. Nobody stays around for that story.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They only stay around to either have their fears confirmed or, you know, learn a new fear. That's just what the news is. So you have to tune out and you have to, you know, go to soup plantation.

[B]

I did not expect. This was so heartfelt. And then suddenly it got real.

[A]

I always ruined it. I always ruin it.

[B]

No, that was beautiful. It does seem. But it, you know, particularly lately, it does seem like all the news is like, here's a bunch of good people where bad people did things to them. It's like there's just like, innocent people who keep getting bad stuff done to them by people who. And I can't wrap my head around it. Are bad people, you know, which is so hard to understand. And it's.

[A]

You feel so powerless.

[B]

It's.

[A]

Yeah, there's a lot of abuse of power right now that what is happening now is we're in a transitional phase where power is being taken back or taken away. And it seems slow and it seems like maybe it won't change, but it will change. And it is changing. And you have to believe it's changing so that you can continue trying. Because that's the most important thing is.

You know, it feels like sometimes the setup is they're trying to get people to quit. They're trying to get people to turn against each other. And the other day, like there's a million. We could talk about the police shootings. We could talk about fucking Bill Cosby. We could talk about politics of all kinds. We could whatever attacks on Muslim children. I mean like so fucked. But the other day somebody just posted the picture of hundreds of people in London walking with flowers to go put them down where at the. At the most recent place where a Muslim was attacked.

[B]

The mosque where they drove the guy drove into the.

[A]

Drove the van. And what I think people are starting to understand is when things like that happen, everybody else needs to stand up and show the world, no, this is not what we want. Like it's the.

Just being.

Being quiet isn't working anymore. Like people have to make a stand and show that there is another force working. And we were talking about all of this at work and at one point I just said I'd like to remind everybody about the women's March. Because that was millions of. And women. Yeah. But mostly women in their hats all around the world standing up and going, nope. And that's, you know, that's just try to remember.

[B]

Yeah, I would like to keep that attitude of positivity.

[A]

And then if you can't just make sure that you're not intaking that you're balanced out. It's like the. Turn off the news and turn on Bob's Burgers or something else that's going to make you happy Baskets.

[B]

Which is like depressing but like so good.

I started binge watching it last night in a way that was like, oh, I'm gonna be gone all doing this all weekend. Yeah, period.

[A]

It's so good.

[B]

It's so good. And you write on it. I know you were on this. You write on the second season. It was when you start. Ray, I can't wait to watch your episode.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

We were in a meeting recently and someone found out that you had written this certain. They were talking about this certain episode and they found out you write it. They almost started crying. It's like, so proud of you.

[A]

So cool. Thank you. Thank you.

[B]

It's exciting.

[A]

It's the one thing that is worth.

Having two jobs for, which is.

[B]

Yeah, if it was any other show, I'd be like, what the fuck, Karen? You don't need this. And it's like, why are you writing on Family Feud?

[A]

I love those questions. Because there's so many questions. I take the polls. I'm the one that goes out in the streets in Las Vegas.

[B]

On the street in Las Vegas, of all places.

[A]

When it's really hot, I like to go out into the street and ask people, what's the weirdest place?

[B]

Well, speaking of positivity, should we talk about murder?

[A]

Yeah, let's. Let's keep it on an up note.

[B]

Yeah. I think you're here first.

[A]

I think I am, and I think I was supposed to be last week. Did you hear about that?

[B]

Oh, that was my correction, Stephen. Give me that check back. Yeah, give me that check.

[A]

We're ripping this up in front of.

[B]

Your face is chewing it up. Thank you. Oh, oh. We have to mention, if you are not a Skipper, and you did hear the. You went to listen to the podcast, and in the beginning you were like, okay, this is the theme song I always listen to every week. And then it wasn't the theme song and it was some fucking magic moment.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So if you're a Skipper, go back and listen again. Because the theme song this week of My Favorite Murder is an amazing.

[A]

It's Georgia's early Rave Days.

Meets Karen's song meets Forensic Files meets My Song.

[B]

It's a remix of the My Favorite Murder theme, which is amazing. And it's written by Yojis. That's correct. So if you go on. What's the channel that they go on? Steve World, Zoom. SoundCloud. If you go on SoundCloud, it's Y O G Z right now.

[A]

What's this channel the children put their.

[B]

Music on now, Steven, this is. This is. What was the. Oh, this is Satanic San Francisco, Steven. Now tell us, what's this thing going. Steven's our tech whiz. This brand new theme song by Yogies. Yogies. Y o G Z on SoundCloud.

[A]

Yeah. That's awesome. Thank you so much.

[B]

Dude, I lost my mind when I heard it.

[A]

We laughed so hard. It's so brilliantly done. Thank you. What an honor.

[B]

I just don't even remember when I said that thing about Ghost in the middle of Molly, which I just love. She ever hears what you said and you're like, oh, my God. That's how I'd like that girl. Kill yourself.

[A]

Yes, you should. She's great. She's really great.

[B]

See, we didn't have guilt and Catholicism in Judaism. We had, you're fucking great in Judaism. You're so cool.

[A]

Really.

[B]

There's guilt, but no, we dig ourselves. We love hearing ourselves talk. We're great.

[A]

Now I'd just like to quickly go back to Stephen's Correction corner. I felt like he was really about to spill it.

[B]

Oh, go Steven. No, I mean, I just. I got excited and I was like, george is first. And I was like, nope.

That was on me.

[A]

This year. It's a rare mistake from Stephen Raymore. It almost never happens. It really doesn't.

[B]

Unless we just don't. I've been flogging myself since just like, DaVinci Code style. We might need to use one of the three, like, tools that people have given us at live shows to check when it's our turn.

[A]

Oh, yeah, the. Well, there's one's like an abacus.

[B]

One's like a rock that you flip. You flip it.

[A]

Yeah. There's so many.

[B]

Yeah, it's pretty great.

[A]

Really beautiful handcrafted tools that we've never looked at since they were given to us.

[B]

Listen, one day I'm gonna go up in that fucking podcast loft that's hot as shit and clean it and organize it and it's gonna be beautiful. I let my one and a half year old niece. Nephew. What's a nephew?

[A]

That's a boy.

[B]

Go up there and he picked up this cute knit thing that someone made of Elvis. And I was like, you can fucking keep that. But in a good way. Cause it was so cool. And he went directly towards it and was like, held it and then carried it around the house for the rest of the day. And I was, keep it.

[A]

Someone made us. And it's actually been a couple people and it's the same style, but have given us knit versions, little versions of ourselves. I keep meaning to post this at live shows. And my dogs walk around with Georgia in their mouths all day. And it's so hilarious. And sometimes it makes me so happy I take pictures because George does a thing where she's laying down.

[B]

And George is like a big lab, right?

[A]

Yeah, she's half lab, half hound. So she is. She's a weirdo. She looks weird, but what she likes to do is if she's feeling lazy, she'll have a toy in her mouth and she just flips it up in the air and catches It.

[B]

That's, like, laying down. Yes.

[A]

So she is. Oh, I have a picture series that I sent to Georgia of George flipping Georgia up in the air and catching her.

[B]

And Georgia's a girl, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. I'm gonna post it. Like a squirrel thing on Instagram. I know I keep saying I'm gonna do shit on Instagram, but I'm really good. It made me so happy to see. You know what? The reason I didn't post is because I couldn't find the girl who made that toy.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I wanted to credit her, but I'll. I'll figure it out.

[A]

All the people. And we do talk to people in real time when we're being given things, but we really do love them, and we really do keep them and they'.

[B]

Boxes and stuff, even though, like, weird shit people bring us. That's just like. I didn't know what to bring you, so I got you this, like, sticker from my town. And it's just like, thank you.

[A]

We still have. I still. I was just telling my sister this when we were in. I'm pretty sure it was Seattle. A guy gave me his Costco card and goes, look at what it. Look at how evil I look in my picture on my Costco card. And I was like, oh, my God, you. You look totally evil. And. And I hand it back, and he goes, no, no, that's for you. And I still. I keep it. It's right on my desk. It just. Just sits right next to me, right where I type shit. So, you know, we have you.

[B]

I don't know. That makes me want to cry. Like, we're just. It's so funny and happy and lucky, and I'm so stoked.

[A]

We're having a good time.

[B]

Everybody listen.

[A]

Sorry to be so stuck up.

[B]

I'm so sorry. We're into ourselves, but I'm Jewish.

[A]

I think I'm pretty neat. I always wanted to be Jewish. Ever since I saw the Goodbye Girl and Quinn coming, I was like, that is. That's who I was supposed to be. I was born in the wrong body. I was born in the wrong family. I'm supposed to be the child of a divorced mother in Manhattan.

[B]

Yeah, well, I think Catholics. Catholics and Jews are very. There's a lot of similarities in the families there. So you just need to fucking take my cockiness a little bit.

[A]

I'm going to.

[B]

Okay. And, like, just take a little couple things.

[A]

I'm gonna take a half a cup of your cockiness. My mother always told me that Jewish men and Irish Catholic women are the best combination because they're both matriarchal societies. And so a lot of other men get very offended by how bossy and controlling we are as Irish Catholic women. But which is so true, because I.

[B]

Think Jewish women were raised that way too, which is why. And we think we're badasses. So when I meet a Jewish man, I'm like, fuck you. You're so fucking cocky. Like, I don't like it. I've never dated a Jewish guy. Vince is fucking atheist. Whatever. And I could. So I could see that, like an appreciation there.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's. That's a nice mix. This has been Catholic Jew talk.

[B]

We're gonna cut all this out so we don't send everyone next week.

[A]

Buddhism.

And we're back. We're really getting into the taboo cultural conversations on this podcast back in 2017.

[B]

Right?

[A]

We're not afraid.

[B]

Yeah. We had to, like, start getting into the suck of it. And it seems like we're still there.

[A]

It seems like it's gotten worse. Just like the people who study fascism told us it was going to crazy that. But I was actually talking about just even saying Jews versus Catholics. Like, it's a very, at this point, such a sensitive and, you know, touchy topic. I don't know. It's just such a we, you know, everything is like that these days. And so even just saying the words seems to be, like, somehow inflammatory. Even though I'm talking about myself and you're talking about yourself.

[B]

Yeah. You know what else is inflammatory is the name Souplantation.

[A]

I mean, first and foremost, like, let's get that out there.

[B]

I mean, it doesn't exist anymore. Except there is one location of Sweet Tomatoes, which is the name they changed it to in Tucson, Arizona.

That's right.

[A]

Oh, so Mimi's like, God damn it. I mean, if you want to do a road trip to the Tucson Sweet Tomatoes, I would do that a thousand percent me.

[B]

Oh, I'm down for sure. Why aren't we doing a live show there?

[A]

Just for that reason, inside the Sweet Tomatoes, like up by the croutons.

[B]

Have you been to Sizzler lately, though? It's got the same. The salad bar's got the same vibe. If you, like, really miss it, I recommend.

[A]

Really? The thing I really loved about. I remember going to the Sizzler with my boyfriend back in, you know, must have been 1999 or something.

[B]

Oh, that's your date with your boyfriend. That's cute.

[A]

It was a fun date to go to the Sizzler. On Highland.

[B]

Yes, I remember that one.

[A]

It's so stuffy and weird and dark. But when I went up to the salad bar, which is a thing I've always really had a love for. Yeah, they're just. It's just such a random. You can make it exactly how you want. Like, for children of the 70s, we never got to do that with anything. It was like, either eat the Snickers the way it was given. Nobody's going to make a different version the way you like it. Like, that didn't exist back then.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so this idea that, like, you got to just go and make the exact salad you wanted and you didn't have to just eat it, even though there were onions on it or whatever.

[B]

Things and stuff, like, you didn't want that. But shut up and eat it.

[A]

But shut up and eat it. And now you. It was like, you decide you want nacho cheese on that salad. Enjoy.

[B]

Oh, my God. Why doesn't that happen? That might be the best idea. What kind of dressing do you want? Nacho cheese. Nacho cheese.

[A]

Hot nacho cheese with green peppers in it.

[B]

Karen, have I done it? You did it. A little bit of bacon bits on top.

[A]

Sorry, but I'm going to sidebar us for one second because have I ever told you about that salad that I keep chasing that I used to eat in, like, the 2000s, and the restaurant closed, and it was actually an independent restaurant in Los Angeles. So once it closed, the salad was gone forever. What was was romaine lettuce. And what I just realized is gorgonzola cheese, which I thought it was goat cheese this whole time. So I've tried to remake it at home. And last night I just had an Italian restaurant salad. This is the worst podcasting of all time.

[B]

I just realized this is a fascism. Like, what we have to recap. I'd rather do salads, like, right. I hate salads. And I'd rather talk about fucking salads than anything else.

[A]

Than talk about how. What's it like between 2017 and now where it's like, we didn't do anything about the big national joke, and now the big national joke is stealing people off the street and disappearing them for real. So for real.

[B]

So it's salads.

[A]

So I'll say this. Romaine lettuce, chopped almost like ribbon sliced, you know?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Gorgonzola, deep fried onion strings, and then a balsamic reduction dressing.

[B]

That sounds so easy. But getting those specific ones are probably.

[A]

Oh, sorry. And yes, completely. Plus polenta croutons. So Deep fried squares of polenta as croutons. Okay.

[B]

I've never heard of that before.

[A]

The combination of those items is so delicious. If you can make any of those things at home and you're. If. If you can hear my voice right now out in the landscape, make yourself that salad. And please tell us how you made deep fried polenta croutons. Cause I have tried many a time. Not deep fried, but I've tried to fry some up myself, and I can't do it.

[B]

What about the air fryer? I feel like that might. Might work. Oh, yeah.

[A]

These days that's true. Maybe just cube them up and put them in an air fryer for, like, maybe for too long so they really get hard and crispy on the outside.

[B]

There you go. We've solved fascism.

[A]

Nobody be unhappy anymore, okay? Because we talked about salad.

[B]

Oh, my God. Onion rings on a salad. I'm just. I'll stand by for the rest of my fucking life. And now not to cheese, too.

[A]

No cheese. Some real hot salad on an iceberg lettuce. The kind that can really hold. Hold hot dressing.

[B]

Yeah.

It's so exciting.

[A]

It's so disgusting. The reason it made me think of it is because at the Highland Sizzler, when I went up to get my salad, there was so much nacho cheese in the salad mix that I was like, should we start over with the salad? Because I think someone really dragged the ladle across the actual lettuce part, you know?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Wow. Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think we did it.

[A]

Goodbye.

[B]

I think that's. I think we should get into your story. I think that's it.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Now let's get into Karen's story about the carbon copy murders.

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So it's me this week. Yay. Okay, give it to me.

[B]

I'm going to get my sweaty ass on this leather couch. Comfortable.

[A]

Yeah. Slide your ass around and really find your space in this world.

So having a job again. When I do my murders, I usually do them. I have to do them quickly. Okay. I'm sorry, but the pose you're in right now, is this helping you?

[B]

Is this helping you?

[A]

Remind you. George is facing me on the couch with one leg up in the air as if I'm her gynecologist.

[B]

I have a pillow.

[A]

It's exactly. No, you're blocking it entirely. But it's exactly like that scene from Girls when she's at surf camp and she just pulls her bathing suit aside and stuns her pussy.

[B]

Favorite scene. I think about that all the time.

[A]

And definitely.

[B]

And I'm also wearing like, like 1970s. What is this called? Like a onesie.

[A]

A romper.

[B]

Romper. Short shorts. So if I move this pillow, it would be.

[A]

It's over.

[B]

It would be over. I love that scene.

[A]

You move that pillow. We're bestie best friends.

[B]

We're best friends. Don't think I wouldn't too. Because the only thing about Jews is we have no fucking shave. Naked. We're just always naked.

[A]

Can I tell that story of on your wedding night?

[B]

I don't remember what you're talking about, but go for it. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Can I fuck?

[B]

I have no secrets.

[A]

You don't care. On Georgia's wedding night. And this was like, I don't even know what. Well, it was when you guys Went back to your room obviously. So it was probably 2:30 in the morning. I was already. I'd already gone back to my room and gone to bed. I look at my phone and Georgia had texted me a picture of herself.

[B]

Well, here, can I explain that? Wait, wait. So a bunch. So we, after the wedding was over, we went to like, you know, to a little after party thing and like I guess a bunch of you guys, my girlfriends had snuck into our hotel room and decorated it all cute and put candles and like that wasn't you. That wasn't you. And put like. But you had helped me with the wedding too and had put like.

[A]

No, I just don't want to take.

[B]

Credit for like put rose. You made my bouquet that's sitting right over there.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Put rose petals and a heart. Like just some really cute, sweet like shit that and that whole day made me think how like there was so much help from so many girlfriends and it made me so fucking. It was so wonderful. And so I got back and saw that and started crying immediately.

[A]

And she had already taken her dress off, which means she was topless entirely. Like she doesn't wear a foundation garment, our girl Georgia. So she texted me a picture of herself topless, crying with like her wedding. You still had something in your hair for your wedding.

[B]

I texted that to maybe 10 of my girlfriends and I had glitter because we had glitter in the fucking photo booth. So it was just glitter stuck to my entire body and I was sitting on the bed crying. And so I don't care. A bunch of you guys have a topless photo of me naked and crying.

[A]

On your wedding night.

[B]

Hell, who fucking cares?

[A]

Well done you.

[B]

Yay. Thank you. Thank you for telling that story.

[A]

Okay, so because. Because I'm pushing off my homework to the last minute, I was going through you Recommended to me mysteries Abound. Which is.

It's a amazing podcast by an Australian guy named Paul Ryan Rex. It is the best. He reads articles out of really cool magazines and they're just. They're just interesting, fascinating wonders from around the world. Lots of stuff about aliens, lots of stuff about. There's murder stuff. There's just kind of general mysteries.

[B]

Some.

[A]

Some of it's a nature based.

[B]

So cool.

[A]

It's so good. But he has this amazing voice. So like I've been listening to it on planes because you travel so much and you get into that weird travel stress mode. So when get onto a plane I put that podcast on and I can like go to sleep or I can. I just am like, super relaxed. So I've listened to all of them. I'm obsessed. So.

So also, he. He is an independent podcaster, so you can go on to just Google Paul Rex and mysteries abound. He has another podcast called Origins. Like Origin with a Z. I haven't heard any of that, but it. That another. It's another thing that seems fascinating, definitely. But he, when he reads his article, says it's from this magazine or this website, quotes the source. He quotes the source.

[B]

I don't get it.

[A]

Really good idea. And one of the websites he talks about all the time is a website called coolinterestingstuff.com.

[B]

Yeah, I've heard that. Falling asleep.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

From coolinterestingstuff.com.

[A]

This is from coolinterestingstuff.com oh, I love it. But also, give, please give Paul Rex money so that he keeps podcasting because it's so. Such high quality. It's so good.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

I did. I'm not just telling you to. I did. So anyway.

[B]

You gave him money.

[A]

I gave him money this morning because I was like, I want to tell people to do it, but I want to be. I need to walk the walk.

[B]

Dig it.

[A]

Anyhow, I went on to cool, interesting stuff because I was like, okay, I'm going to find. I'm going to be able to get something and get a murder. Because oftentimes if I leave it till the day of the. Of the story, it's the chronology that gets me. There's so much information that you, like, you know, you want to pick a good one, but then they have. There's just so much stuff that you have to sift through and you have to figure out the story you want to.

[B]

And you can't just read, like a news report on it because that's not interesting. You have to tell. I got the same thing with mine this week where it's like, how do I end this? Or how do I, like, make this exciting towards the end or make it just.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you have to, you know, I don't know. You have to work on your podcast.

[B]

Like, write a story for your podcast.

[A]

It seems bullshit.

[B]

I'm, like, kind of annoyed.

[A]

I don't like it that much. Sorry. I'm sorry, but who said this was homework?

[B]

Whom do you think this is?

[A]

Whom do I think you are? So go on to coolinterestingstuff.com which also seems like an independently produced thing. It's all articles and things. It looks like somebody's doing it out of their Den that someone's legitimately like.

[B]

I think this is cool and interesting.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

Is it even real? Who knows? So this is the story that I found that I. I just love this. And this kind of combines all my things. I'm so excited. It's called the Carbon Copy Murders. Have you heard of it?

[B]

No, but I'm excited.

[A]

Okay. It's so good. Okay. I just read it to you. So also coolinterestingstuff.com is the only source that I can quote. Cause there's no individual writers that I found. Like there was no individual writer on this article. And so a lot of this article is.

[B]

So it said it's a chicken. A den. What? Elvis just fell off the fucking. Sorry. Sorry.

[A]

Did he fall asleep and then fall off the couch?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Elvis, you're drunk.

[B]

It's probably one chick in her den, right?

[A]

Yes, exactly. So if you work there or you know somebody, please tell us who. Coolinterestingstuff.com Linda, tell if you're working if. Linda, give us your last name.

[B]

Linda, we want to know.

[A]

Linda, we want to support you. Okay. The Carbon Copy martyrs. So on May 27, 1817 at 6:30am A laborer on his way to work in Erdington, England. I'm sure that's how they pronounce it. Erdington.

[B]

I'm sure that's how the. England. I'm sure that's how they pronounce it.

[A]

England. I don't know. Have you heard of it?

He. He sees a pile of blood stained clothes near Penn's Mill. We say that as if it's somewhere we know it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he calls the police or gets the police because it's 1817. He calls out for the police.

[B]

Police.

[A]

And they search the area. They find two sets of footprints, a big and a little. And they follow them down to a flooded sand pit and they. Then they dredge the sand pit and they find the body of a local girl named Mary Ashford.

[B]

Oh no.

[A]

So they start. The cops start asking around and they find out the story of what she had been doing the night before. So it was a holiday called Wit Monday. And I looked it up. So it's basically. It's a Christian holiday 50 days after Easter. They kept calling it on like the. When I looked it up on Wikipedia or whatever, they kept calling it Pentecost, which I'm like, I don't know what this is. And I'm like a lifelong Catholic. I've never heard of this before.

[B]

It doesn't exist. If you don't know what it is. It doesn't exist.

[A]

Me the expert. Yeah. So it's basically. It sounds to me like it's like a last day of May. Yeah, I mean the last day of the end of spring, kind of before summer holiday. And it's on a Monday. So it's basically an excuse to have a long weekend. Even back in 1817.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that night they were having a dance in Erdington for Whit Monday. So Mary.

She had traveled from Erdington, her hometown, to Birmingham to sell dairy produce at the local market. That's like what she did for a living.

And then she had plans to meet up with her friend Hannah Cox. She was gonna go to Hannah's house, change into her party dress, and they were together, gonna go to Whitsuntide. The Whitsuntide Dance is what it was called for Whit Monday. That was at the Tyburn House Inn. That was that night. So she got to Hannah's house at six in the evening, she changed into her new dress and then they went to the dance together.

[B]

Sorry, she's 2012. 20, 20. Oh, that's a lot older. Okay.

[A]

It's like eight years old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they, at the dance, they have a great time. She's very popular. Well known girl, Mary is. And so they have lots of male admirers at the dance. But for the most part, she had spent the evening in the company of a young bricklayer named Abraham Thornton. Get that? Bricklayer. My grandfather was a bricklayer. He was the president of the Bricklayers Union in San Francisco.

[B]

Oh my God. Yeah, so that sounds the two of them together. Sounds like a fucking cover of a romance novel.

[A]

Yeah. Hot.

[B]

The lady in the Bricklayer.

[A]

Hell yeah. That's if you lay bricks, then you also keep your shirt unbuttoned to your navel.

[B]

Definitely. And he's like more like a brick slayer. I don't know. Something. There's something there.

[A]

Just like let it like roll around in your mind for like little bit. So she's hanging out with Abe. Her friend Hannah is hanging out with a guy named Benjamin Carter. So the dance ends at midnight and the foursome leave and Hannah and Benjamin are separated. And Mary. So Hannah and Benjamin go off this way and Mary and Abraham go off in another direction.

[B]

Definitely. Leave your friend with a guy she doesn't know.

[A]

Right? I mean, look, look, they're 20.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're at a dance. Good times, great oldies. Now let's go for a stroll in the lane. Okay, so later on it's like 3:30 in the morning, Mary is seen walking back toward Hannah Cox's house. And the witness tells the police that he noticed she was walking very slowly and that she was alone.

At Hannah's house. She takes off the new dress, changes back into her work clothes and tells Hannah she's gonna go home. She leaves the house at 4am and she's only. She's seen two more occasions that night. Occasions that was a cut in case word if you've ever heard one. A man named Joseph Dawson testified that he'd seen Mary in bell Lane around 4:15am I mean they partied all night.

[B]

Dude, that's like I can't, I can't do that next 200 years later.

[A]

Well, but she's 20.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And she's got that like a milk, a milk maid's constitution.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's like, I'm selling dairy all week. Yeah, I want to party.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. He's Joseph Dawson sees her at 4:15 and then 10 minutes later she was seen in the same lane by a guy named Thomas Broadhurst.

[B]

There's a lot of people out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Night.

[A]

Well, because it's that three, it's that three day weekend everyone's sure working for. Both witnesses say that she was alone when they saw her. Okay. Okay. So when the police interview Abe Thornton, the guy, they tell her that she has been murdered. That she probably by strangulation after being raped. He was in total shock. He told the detectives, I can't believe she was murdered. I was with her until 4 o' clock this morning. So the police believe him to be sincere.

He doesn't understand that he's the chief suspect in this murder investigation. He's finally taken into custody.

And they grill him about the night and every, the whole, everything that happened after they left the dance. He says that they did have sex, but he didn't. 18, 17.

[B]

They bone.

[A]

They totally boned in a field.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

It was better then.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Less chemicals.

They had sex. But he denies of course that he raped and murdered her. He actually states that when Hannah and Ben peeled off, he and Mary strolled hand in hand through a field over to a style which is. I don't know if you've ever watched like a Jane Austen movie, but sometimes you know how like they walk through fields, they're like I'm going to go over to that castle over there and they just start walking. Well when you come to a fence, they used to build in stairs into the fence with like a pole so you could walk over the fence without the like Sheep getting over the fence.

[B]

I didn't know that.

[A]

Okay, That's. That was called a style. That was the standard thing. So they went over to a style, sat down, started chatting. Oh, my God. What's it like to lay bricks? It's like this. How's. What is it really like selling milk? I'll tell you. Shut up. I'll tell you if you just let me talk for one second.

They talk for 15 minutes and then they go to the green at Erdington where Mary goes back into Hannah's house to change out of the dress. She's in her nice dress and into her work clothes. He's waiting outside for her for a long time and she doesn't come back out. So he goes home alone. That's his story.

And that story is backed up by three witnesses who saw him standing there waiting for her. One was a gamekeeper named John Hayes.

Who stood there and talked to him for 15 full minutes. So everybody's like, yeah, this, you know.

[B]

So clearly he did it.

[A]

So clearly it's this piece of shit. No.

So the. Basically the investigation stalls out because aside from that, like, bit of action, there's nothing else that they know about what Mary did that night.

And no one saw the two of them together after she went back into Hannah's house.

So they have a tri still. He's arrested and he's. And he's brought to trial. And that trial was in August of that year at the Warwick ass size court.

[B]

No, but. Fuck. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. What is your ass size?

[B]

We'll guess your weight and charge you with murder.

[A]

Your ass size doesn't look innocent. Okay, so hundreds of people think he did it. So they're all standing outside the court waiting for the guilty verdict.

[B]

Those are the good people?

[A]

Yeah, those are the murderinos of 1817. So it turns out.

After six minutes of deliberation, the jury came back and with the verdict. Not guilty.

[B]

Great.

[A]

So in modern English law, that verdict would have been final. But in early 19th century, ancient law existed, which enabled Mary Ashford's brother William to appeal that verdict and demand a second trial. And.

So the judge, Lord Ellenborough, he decides he allows Thornton to take advantage of an archaic law called trial by battle. B A T T E L. That's how you know it's old.

So basically that means he can renew his plea of not guilty by literally throwing a gauntlet down from the dock.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. So yeah. So it's. Come on. And by doing that, he is challenging William Ashford, Mary's brother, who is the one who wants him, you know, retried? He's challenging him to a fight to the death.

[B]

Shut the fuck up.

[A]

Yeah, unless. Unless one of them surrenders or is incapacitated during the fight.

[B]

Guys, guys, guys.

[A]

So people defy this because it's such an ancient. But it's basically Lord Ellenborough is like, this is the law of England and it's allowed. And so.

[B]

Oh, my God, can you imagine today of like, that being. All right, well, there's a lot that says you can have a duel, so let's have a deal.

[A]

Yeah. So grab this ax and throw it on the ground.

[B]

It's in the law books.

[A]

So if Ashford accepts the challenge and wins, that means Thorton will be executed immediately. But if Thorton wins, then he's free and doesn't have to ever appear in court again for this murder.

[B]

So not for the murder of this guy? Oh, my God.

[A]

Well, no, that one's like, everybody knows that that's what he signed up for. So.

This guy does it. He's like, hell, yes, I'm in. So he throws the gauntlet down, and William Ashford basically doesn't respond to Abraham Thornton's challenge.

And so he gets off. So it's basically like one of those things where you. If you have a traffic ticket and you challenge it, if the cop that gave you the ticket doesn't show up in court, then you don't have to pay the ticket.

[B]

So the brother was like, I want another trial. And Abraham was like, gauntlet. And he was like, know what?

[A]

I don't want to get killed. You're good because you're a big beefy bricklayer and you're going to kick my ass.

[B]

You're like walking off the COVID of a romance novel.

[A]

Yeah, it's. You're. You're like, what's his name?

[B]

Fabio.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I only say that because Vince jokes about Fabio all the time. Does he?

[A]

Fabio was sitting behind our table at a sushi restaurant once. Me and my friend Karen Anderson. And so I was staring at Fabio the entire dinner, and I was. I was like, there's a celebrity behind you. You have to guess who it is.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

You will not believe it. She guessed people the entire dinner. And I was giving her clues.

[B]

That's my dream dinner conversation.

[A]

Long hair, romance. I was giving her every clue. She never guessed it. And we had to wait until he got up and walked out. And then she's like, fabio.

[B]

No, I'd be like, fabio.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Vince will jokingly say, like, you look great. Like, I know Fabio's. Your type. But like he always references like when we're making out and you close your eyes and think about fab. No, I don't.

[A]

He's your. Yes. He's your male ideal. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's who I think about.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So.

[A]

Essentially he gets off. He never is gonna get tried again. And he ends up. It's such a he. He's so known as. Everyone thinks he killed Mary Ashford that he ends up emigrating to the United States cause he can't get a job as a bricklayer. Shit. So exactly 157 years later to the hour, the up after the discovery of Mary Ashford's body on Monday, May 27, 1975, which was also whit Monday.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Laid on. They that holiday laid on the same day. 157 years later, the body of 20 year old Barbara Forest was found dead in the long grass of a ditch near Pipe Hayes children's home where she worked as a nurse. She had been strangled and raped.

The bodies of both victims were found within 300 yards of each other.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

And later police arrested Michael Thornton.

[B]

No.

[A]

A Birmingham childcare officer who worked at that same children's home where Barbara worked. So here's the similarities. They were both 20, they look alike. And there are two pictures. One looks like an illustration of a Jane Austen character and one is a straight on picture of a very pretty, very young 70s gal. So you can't get the profile thing, but they look alike. It's the same like small fine features of two young women. Essentially both pretty. They had both visited their best friend on the evening of Whit Monday to change into a new dress for the local dance party. They were both raped and then strangled. And they were both. That happened to them both at the same time of day.

[B]

Oh my God. Same guy did it then probably. Right? Yep.

[A]

He was a time traveler. That was just about that spot.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Anyone who walked by that spot, he was gonna kill. They were both obviously both guys named Thornton.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

In both instances, the man named Thornton was charged, then subsequently acquitted.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Mary Ashford and Barbara Forrest had the same birthday.

[B]

Not ready to move on yet. Okay, stop it right now.

[A]

Now listen. This is from coolinterestingstuff.com well, clearly they're.

[B]

Correct in titling their website that. Holy.

[A]

It's. If this is true. All true. I love it. It's so insane if it's not.

[B]

It's still fun.

[A]

I still fucking love it. I still love the concept of it, but fuck, I mean like this. Cause this could happen. That's just that thing of like, if 100 monkeys, you know, are typing a typewriter. Like, it's that kind of thing, but it's. But it's also. Then it brings in my favorite kind of occult thing, which is, could something else be involved? Or whatever. I love it. Here's the other similarity. A week before Mary Ashford was murdered, she told her friend Hannah Cox's mother that she had bad feelings about the week to come, but she didn't know what it meant. She didn't have any specifics that. And 10 days before Barbara Forrest was raped and strangled, she told a colleague at work, this is going to be my unlucky month. I just know it. Don't ask me why.

Carbon copy murders, ladies and gentlemen. Isn't that insanity?

[B]

Oh, my God. Coochie twinge.

[A]

But you're saying that with your leg up in the air.

[B]

Sorry, with my.

[A]

Just.

[B]

I am splayed open.

[A]

I mean, can it change at that angle?

[B]

Can you see? Don't even know. You're embarrassing Stephen. I'm sorry.

[A]

Stephen is flat. Face flat on the ground.

[B]

No, he's taking notes.

[A]

No, I think he passed out.

[B]

Nope, you're right. He's passed out. Shit. We killed Stephen.

[A]

We killed Stephen.

[B]

Oops.

[A]

Well, your coochie killed Steven.

[B]

Oh, man. Ain't be the first time I killed. I don't know what. It doesn't make any sense. That was amazing and creepy and fucked up insane. Thank you for regaling me.

[A]

Thank you, Paul Rex.

[B]

Thank you, Linda from coolinterestingthings.com or Lyndon. Lyndon or Linda, whoever you might be. That's it.

Okay, we're back. Karen, do you have any updates?

[A]

There's no case Updates, but in 2018, a historian named Naomi Clifford published a book called the Murder of Mary Ashford, the Crime that Changed English Legal History. And that digs into the 1817 case and clears up a lot of the. Also, just as a fun footnote, the podcast Mysteries Abound with Paul Rex ended in 2019, but the catalog is still up, so you can listen to episodes wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

Wow, that was a fascinating story.

[A]

Okay, so let's get into Georgia's story about the Annecy shootings.

[B]

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Here's why I love Talkspace because they're making it actually affordable for people in 2025. Very important these days.

[B]

We need it the most now and we can't afford it the most now. So let's fucking do it.

[A]

Yeah, let's get it all covered by our insurance and then let's get some therapy.

[B]

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[A]

That's S P A C E 80 to match with the licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com mFM and enter code SPACE80. Goodbye streaming December 11th on Paramount plus it's the new limited series Little Disasters.

[B]

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[A]

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So here's one that's been in my drafts since the beginning of this podcast because I've always loved this story, but there's never good closure to it because it was only five years ago. But I always kind of look it up and see what's new. And so finally I'm ready to do it. So this is the Annecy shootings.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right. Go ahead and give credit right now to Sean Flynn who wrote this like 500 part GQ article about it. That's really great. But it hasn't been. I think it's from a couple years ago. So there's. But I. But he helped me a lot. So thank you. All right. September 5, 2012 on the secluded route. Ready for this? Floreste de Monlier de la Combe d'. Irie.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Nope, not getting close. Near the southern end. Cue the fucking corrections. Corner near the southern end of Lake Annecy in France.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's a small serene city. It's about six hour drive from Paris and a man named Brett Martin was out riding his bike cycling up this beautiful hill. And as he crossed a river bridge and continued up the hill, a little girl came stumbling into the road and collapsed in front of her family's car that was parked on the side of the road. 7 year old Zainab Alhela Lee had been shot in the shoulder and she had been pistol whipped. He stopped at the scene and inside of Zaynab's family car, the family BMW had a camper. Attached was the dead bodies of her father, Saeed Al hili, he's a 50 year old satellite engineer. His wife Iqbal, she's a 47 year old dentist and Iqbal's mother, Suhail. Suhail, she's 74 and each had been shot twice in the head inside the car.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

The family was in the area on vacation from their home in Claygate, Surrey, England.

And they were on their way for a walk in the woods. Just a random venture into the woods. And also on the scene outside the car was the dead body of a local cyclist, Sylvain Molier. He's 45, he's been shot five times, twice in the head. The car was stopped in a way that investigators were able to tell that prior to the shooting the BMW had like reversed sharply. The driver was said into the lay by. So in Reverse, like trying to get the think of u turn, get the fuck out of there. The wheels had gotten stuck in the gravel and as they tried to make a getaway, so the car had gotten stuck there. The car is still running, running.

It'S in neutral, but someone is just jammed on the gas pedal, so it's just revving up. All the doors are locked with the three dead bodies inside. Police said that the shooter had originally been in the woods, but had come out into the road to kill everyone.

So the police come, they're investigating the whole thing, they cordon off the area. Eight hours later, as they're still investigating the whole seen and the bodies had still been in the car. A young specialist forensic investigator finds four year old.

Zaina, she's the youngest daughter of the Al Hilly family, hiding beneath her dead mother's legs and skirt in the back of the car unharmed. So she had been hiding that whole time, including the eight hours where they were trying to, to figure out what happened. They had seen one child seat in the car and they had one child at the scene. Yeah.

[A]

Can you imagine that poor medical investigator who thinks he's opening the door or she is opening the door or finally.

[B]

Removing the body after like photographing everything.

[A]

I was a four year old, I just was at my friend's house today and his three year old came home while we were leaving.

Okay, sorry.

[B]

Awful. So clues at the scene point to a lone killer who had already been near the lay by when the Al Hili family arrived. And they had been in a seemingly random drive. Again, like I said, they came from their campsite that was by Lake Annecy, which is like this fucking gorgeous town. The local site cyclist, Molier, he was also on a totally random ride on a route that he had never taken before. So the whole thing seemed random.

It was speculated by the whole scene that the Al Khalif family had been the target of the whole thing and that they were shot first and the cyclist happened on the scene and was killed as a result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. So he just showed up and the eyewitnesses said that neither the car or the cyclist was being followed. So there's another dude, the dude who came up on the scene, was coming up the road, had gotten passed by both that other cyclist and the car and was like, nobody was following them.

[A]

Oh, so he was like the slower cyclist?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And he like found that. He says he got to the scene, he's like suddenly putting together what happened as he's trying to help the girl. And then he's like, well, about to get shot. Like he. Yeah, he says in this documentary that I saw, I was like, well, I wonder what it's going to be. Feel like it's going to feel like to get shot by a gun.

[A]

Because he's positive.

[B]

Yeah, because it's just. It just happened because he had seen them all right. Motives quickly are thrown about by the media who fucking freak out about this case. Both in England and in France. So both Said and Sylvian worked in the nuclear. In nuclear industry. Industry jobs. Moliere at one of the largest suppliers of nuclear components in the world. And Al Hili in the past as an Iraqi. In Iraq as an engineer on sensitive topics and currently in the UK involved in nuclear and satellite technology. And there were sensitive files found on his computer at work. So it was hypothesized that this was a hit on one or both of.

[A]

Them.

[B]

That they had intelligence that the government or another fucking place wanted them silenced for. And maybe one of them got in the wrong time there at the wrong time or they were like working together, who knows? Then two European newspapers cited anonymous German intelligence sources reporting that Sayad's late father had smuggled cash out of Iraq for Saddam Hussein and stashed it in a Swiss bank account. But it was soon found that Sylvain Moliere was on a three year leave of absence from his job and he was just a welder at the nuclear plant.

[A]

That's the cyclist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And he didn't have access to anything that would be interest to criminals. Nor did Syed have access to any classified secrets or anything satellite related that would be of interest to any terrorist cell. But of course the fucking media had gone crazy and were like, this is why this whole family got killed, is because terror, right?

[A]

Some kind of terror.

[B]

And then while Syed's late father, the guy who they said had money in Iraq, he did leave cash when he died in 2011 in a Swiss bank account it was. Had no ties to Saddam Hussein. It was much less than they assumed it was going to be. So it really wasn't any connection. The next suspect that the media and investigators targeted was Zayed Al Hili, who's the older brother of Sayed. The brothers, they hadn't spoken in almost a year except through solicitors, AKA lawyers.

[A]

That's what we call lawyers in America.

[B]

Right. And they were sorting through their late father's estate. So they hadn't spoken in a year because it was really like crazy and stressful.

[A]

So like there was A fight about money and who got what inheritance, which.

[B]

Everyone'S like, oh, well, clearly, there you go.

There was the money in the Swiss bank account. There was the house. There was a house, a small studio in Spain, and they were fighting over it. But Zayd insisted that they were being civil about it, though, and insisted that there was no actual feud, which seems hard to believe, right? He even defended his brother against the suspicion that he was a spy and said the amount of money was much smaller than was rumored. But on Friday, September20, the 8th, the police came to his flat with a search warrant.

All the houses near his flat were evacuated, and the Royal Logistics Corps Bomb Disposal Unit was summoned. So, like, they freaked everyone out in the neighborhood. They were like, we got this guy.

[A]

What year was this?

[B]

This is 2012 still.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Okay, yeah, 2012 still.

So they're evacuated. Made a big scene. They said that there was something suspicious. And these are like, these. I feel like these European, like, trade mags like this, or like gossip mags, like, go crazy with whatever they have there, the same way we do, but in this way that's like.

[A]

No, they're. They're insane, right? The sun, you mean like those tabloid magazines? They're insane.

[B]

They're horrible, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this was like a big story in there. So anything that they got, they would put on there, including that they. There was, quote, something suspicious potentially hazard found in his house.

[A]

Can I just say one thing really quick? So you hear about the Grenfell Towers, which was that huge apartment building that burned and was basically burned because it was like, slumlords didn't. There were no fire extinguishers then. There was lots of complaints and no one did anything. And so many people died. A firefighter who had to go in and fight that fire posted a picture of his helmet on social media. And all these people were like. It was like going in to help or, you know, whatever or something. And somebody from the Sun, I believe, replied, do we have permission to use this picture for our newspaper? And the firefighter wrote back, not for that shit rag. And everybody was retweeting it and faving it.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I think it's like people, because those. They have such an influence on the way people see things, and they act like it's like, look, people need to hear the story, but it isn't like the story. It's just this weird, biased.

[B]

Well, they have, like, quoted sources, but you don't know who those sources are. Those sources haven't been confirmed as being correct. Exactly. And it's like this thing of, well, if I don't put this story out and it turns out to be true, if I don't do it first, someone else gets to it. And there's no fucking point of me putting it out. So I'm gonna put it out now and hope it's true. And then I'll go back and fix it if I need to, or I'll put up the next story.

[A]

Yeah, they don't play by actual journalism rules, which is you can't quote a source that you don't. If you're not like, it's. There's certain phrasing that they use. I just read a thing about this where they use this phrasing that basically just means anyone could have said this. It could be like they could turn to somebody in the next cubicle and be like, hey, do you think this? And they'd be like a source says, or whatever. There's certain buzzwords that you can look up, which is.

[B]

So the frustration we can go on about this over 24 hour news is that, like, you don't have a chance to really research anything if you need to get something out immediately.

[A]

Well, and everybody else depends on that. We're trusting these news sources, these, these, like all these news stations as if they are. When so many times we've seen in the past couple of years, they'll go with a whole story based on a tweet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like we as a person that's on Twitter all the time, it's bullshit. Like the idea that you would base anything on a tweet that could be from anyone doing anything for any reason.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Our boy Riz Ahmed actually tweeted something about that where he's like, you hear so much about Muslim terror, but when all apparently so many Muslim people ran into Grenfell Tower to try to save people from that building. Oh, my God. And you don't. They're. No, you don't see any headlines about that.

[B]

That drives me crazy. All of those. You hear about all like this thing that happened, but you didn't hear about. About this, you know, this bombing in fucking, you know, some town that we don't. Or some city in Iraq that we.

[A]

Don'T care about because someone's decided we don't have to care about it.

[B]

Right, right. Even though it's also innocent fucking people getting killed too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. Okay, well, sorry.

[A]

Such.

[B]

I think it's important that we talked about that. So they said that they found something potentially hazardous in the House. And they found it in the garden shed behind house, which is so ominous. And like where do you make bombs probably? And right.

[A]

Fertilizer, right?

[B]

Yeah, right. The police never announced what it was, but it turned out to not be dangerous. And it said that they found just a Taser which was illegal to have. But despite them not finding anything, on June. In June 2013 he was arrested. This is the brother for conspiracy to commit murder. But he only spent one night in jail jail and was never arrested again. So also the cyclist who happened upon the scene was ruled out as a suspect as well. Other motives that have been thrown around are the involvement of the sas, which I had to look up. Special Air services of the British army, CIA, Israeli intelligence, Iraqi agents, Saddam Hussein loyalists. It was determined that the bullets. And by the bullets in them and the gun part of the gun handle that broke off when the murderer pistol whipped this 7 year old girl who survived and is okay now. So we can calm down.

That it was a 7.6 millimeter Luger manufactured between 1909 and 1947. And it's the type of gun that was issued to Swiss army reserve in the 1920s and 30s. So a fucking like really rare gun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then the other thing was that there was a connection. So the. The Iqbal, the wife, she who died, she. Then it came out, was secretly married, had a first secret husband in America that they kind of died, you know, they could not die. They married for a green card. It wasn't about anything. The husband didn't even know it turned out. So he didn't even know. That same day that she got killed, he died of a heart attack.

[A]

The husband in America?

[B]

Yeah, he had a heart issue and then drove into a tree and died.

No, right?

[A]

No.

[B]

Same day.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

But it's later ruled out as a coincidence. Okay, well, what do you think happened then?

[A]

That it's. Someone got Michael Clayton, they just stuck a needle in his neck or some weird thing that. And then he crashed into a poetry.

[B]

What. So she's a dentist. What if she had like implanted some like little thing in there and like as soon as she died, if I ever die, you're gonna die too. Like if my heart stops beating.

[A]

Oh, like it was her thing.

[B]

Yeah, like if my heart stops beating, that thing and your cheese are never. You can never have me killed.

[A]

Or what if they were just really in love?

[B]

I know. Or what if they just died in the same day?

[A]

Or what if. Hold on, there's five more.

[B]

That's what this whole story is. This is A major murder.

[A]

Yeah, because when you first said it, I was like, I know what this is. And now I know.

[B]

Deal with that. You know. Can we edit this in? Stephen, I meant to say at the beginning, you ready for a hardcore murder mystery? I totally meant to say that to get you all amped and I forgot to. Let's start over.

[A]

No, you, you just keep. Just plow ahead.

[B]

You can do this, Karen.

[A]

It's already happening.

[B]

Are you ready for a hardcore murder mystery?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, great, great, great. Next suspect.

[A]

Halfway. Halfway through. Yeah, well, now I'm ready.

[B]

Now it gets deep.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

Patrice Mengaldo. So the sister of the cyclist who died at the scene told police that she was in an on again, off again, seven year relationship with the ex. An ex foreign, French Foreign Legion sniper named Patrice Mengaldo. He had been given just a standard interview as a witness because he was a local, but he was not a suspect.

But then he wasn't a suspect. 21 months after the case killing leaves a suicide note saying he couldn't handle being considered a suspect and shoots and kills himself.

[A]

What? Yeah, not being a suspect.

[B]

He wasn't a suspect. He said he can't handle being a suspect. Considered a suspect, which he wasn't. And he was a fucking sniper. Right, Right.

Then. Okay. Michel. Michel Hecht. In 2016, retired police captain turned private detective. Pascal Gal Hutch, who I want to hang out with, he tiff investigators off to this 1986 murders of school teachers. Paul Bellion, who was 29, and Lorraine Galsby, 28, of Derbyshire. So these two school teachers, these like sweet baby angels, they're engaged and shit. They're on a cycling holiday. Holiday. When they disappeared. Their bodies are later found in a shallow grave in a maze field in Brooklyn. Brittany, that's Corn. Corn, AKA Korn. They had been found back to back gagged and they had been shot with a hunting rifle. And the case had been unsolved for almost 30 years. And the French detective thought that the similarities were really interesting. And in fact, the mother of Lorraine, the girl, the young woman who had died, said that the moment she heard about the murders in Annecy, she thought the cases were linked because there were so many similarities.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Wow. Yeah. The main suspect in those murders was. Is 53 year old Belgian Mikel Hecht. What's M I C H E L? Michel.

[A]

Isn't that Michael?

[B]

Michel?

[A]

Michael. Mr. Hecht, where are you getting Mihel from? Mihel.

[B]

Michael. Michael. Michael. Michael. Michael. Edit that, Stephen.

[A]

Well, I can't remember now in like I can't Remember in French class? What?

[B]

That. What? They probably don't teach you that.

[A]

I think Michael in French is Michelle, right? Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Well, he had been jailed in 2008, this fucking dude trying to. For trying to kill his own family.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

He shot at his brother, sister in law and their baby. And they. None of them died, but they had all, you know, been injured.

So he had been in jail in 2008, and he had been let out of jail for that 10 months later. And I don't understand this. He had already been on remand for three years, meaning maybe he had already spent three years in jail, so they let him out. I don't fucking know. Sounds insane.

[A]

For the same. Oh, so they're like, look, you've done your time for almost trying to kill your whole family, including a baby.

[B]

Okay.

So hecht. Allegedly, he confessed to the killings of the school teachers while he was in jail to a dude who was there. But the judge ruled it inadmissible and the DNA from that murder was lost. So he now lives in France.

[A]

Fuck.

[B]

Because it's like.

[A]

What's it look like?

[B]

Vasis losis.

[A]

Yeah, that sounds good.

[B]

Okay. And it's two hours from Annecy. That's where he lives now.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. So they noted that the shooter had fired 21 times, mostly at this vehicle that was moving. 17 bullets hit people out of 21. Not one of those bullets hit the frame or the doors or the fenders or any other part of a moving car. Eight of them were headshots. Shit. So it made investigators think that it was a professional. Yeah, two in the head. Which is the way special ops and assassin are trained to do.

[A]

So that's the case.

[B]

Each of them got two in the fucking head. He didn't hit the car. Like, can you imagine? We would just be like shooting the sun.

[A]

Well, yeah, well, even. Even a person that probably, like, is a hunter has experience. You a moving car.

[B]

Yeah, shit, yeah. And then like one guy in the front seat, two people in the back seat.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So anyways, it's been five years since the murder. The brother of Said was asking, is now asking. He's like in it still. He's like, I didn't do it. He's kind of a badass. He's like, I didn't do it. Fuck all of you. No, I'm not coming in for more questioning because you have no. You don't know what you're doing. I think the French police don't want it to be a French suspect. The English police don't want it to be an English suspect. So no one's fucking working together. And this is awful. And so he's asking for a review from the British High Court judge. He thinks the French police know who committed the murders and that the dead cyclist, Sylvain Molaire, was the target and that his brother and his family were in the wrong place at the wrong time. So finally, and this is what I think fucking happened personally, on February 18, 2014, a 48 year old local man was arrested in May.

After a sketch is shown and made public.

Of a bearded man who had been seen in the area on a motorcycle that same day. So when the cyclist is riding up the hill to find this fucking murder, he sees a motorcycle going down the other way.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And this person had never come forward even though it was a big case, obviously. Any witnesses? So they have a sketch composite of him. They finally fucking release it two years later. It's a bearded man on a motorcycle helmet. And they find a dude who they're not naming who bears a striking similarity. It's a 48 year old man. Between the photos, he drives a motorcycle. They searched his home and found a quote, cachet of vintage weapons, including a Luger handgun, although it's not the same one that killed the families. The family. He had been a police officer but had been dismissed recently before the murders in June because of anger issues. Uh oh. So he was released without charge after questioning. So what I think happened and it's so fucking annoying because nobody wants to believe this. What's the simplest answer? Fucking road rage.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

They cut him off. Or the reason. There was no. There's no reason given why they would have pulled into the turnoff to be begin with, you know, where they had to make the U turn and go the. And try to go the other way. Where they got stuck and killed. There's no reason given why they would have done that. So perhaps they, they were speeding or someone was speeding and almost hit each other. And so he veers off the road into this turn off where they pull over to be like talk about it. Or maybe they're both angry people and are yelling at each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the cyclist comes on the scene at the exact time he starts to. To kill the family.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Road rage.

[A]

I mean that is very viable. Yes.

[B]

More.

[A]

But I think this was. Do you want to hear my first fucking always?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you. Well, just from the beginning. And also this sounds really familiar. You haven't done this one before, have you?

[B]

No.

[A]

It sounds so familiar. I Feel like I've seen it.

[B]

You probably heard me think about it.

[A]

I bet you've told me about it, like personally. But.

Maybe I just saw it on a lot of those.

[B]

Yeah, it's on a lot of those.

[A]

Because I think the fact that the cyclist who was murdered has more gunshot wounds.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To me it's like that's the anger one and he's the target and then the other ones were wrong place, wrong time and he's just getting rid of witnesses and, and if he's some kind of a creepy psychopath, it's not like he's going, oh no, it's a family or anything. He's like, take out those witnesses, take out children, pistol, whip a seven year old, whatever the fuck his deal is.

[B]

Well, here's what, and I think you have a really good point, which is that the cyclist is the one exposed and he still gets seven gunshot wounds. Yeah, the two people in the car are in a car and only get two. And the other thing is that the dad and the daughter who got pistol whipped were outside of the car when the shootings happened. So for some reason they were talking to the, to either the cyclists or the killer. But the other thing is they didn't ever mention anything in the police report about there being motorcycle tracks anywhere.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So this whole time I thought it was like a sniper in the woods. But you know, maybe there are motorcycle tracks they're keeping secret or something like that for investigation purposes.

[A]

Or maybe he knows, like if just say he was responsible for the one, the cyclists who were murdered 30 years before. He has a real good system. He knows, you know, like he peels out in a certain way where it covers his track or just something like that where he doesn't park in dirt, he doesn't park in an indented, indentable surface or something like that. Also, here's this. Why would a father let his seven year old get out of the car to talk to a road rage situation? Definitely. That would be a classic. Stay in the car, I will take care of that.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

So that doesn't. Totally. It could be the thing, thing of like, oh, what does that man have over. You know what I mean? Like it sounds so innocent.

[B]

Or even like we're lost, can you help us? And it's just some psychopath, like they were random. I mean, and if they're Arabic, he could be a racist piece of.

[A]

He could be a racist piece of.

[B]

For sure he's a psycho.

[A]

But why do you shoot this the guy that comes upon the scene Five times. Or the. Or the secondary person, the non family car person.

[B]

White house to a couple times.

[A]

As opposed to the two clean kill shots to the head which this guy can do in a moving car. So he clearly can do it to guy on a bike.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why does that guy get three more extra?

What's happening?

[B]

Doesn't make sense. You're right.

[A]

I don't know that. Just. There's something to that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Also he doesn't. It sounds like he did the family last because he didn't stick around to finish off the seven year old or know that the four year old was in the car.

[B]

He ran out of bullets which is why he pistol whipped the seven year old. It sounds like she got shot pretty early on in the shoulder. So maybe he was panicking. Then she got pistol whipped right before he left.

[A]

Okay. Who the fuck.

[B]

Yeah. Yes.

[A]

Can beat a seven year old with a gun.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because they couldn't kill her.

And the other thing is that maybe the reason he shot and had to make sure that the cyclist was killed first was because he's the one who had the easiest getaway.

[A]

A bike.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not if that guy was on a motorcycle.

[B]

Right, True.

[A]

I mean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To me. Okay. To me it's this.

Go with me on this.

[B]

Let's do it. I'm here, I'm there. The.

[A]

The.

People are already parked at the turn, turn thing. What do you call that layout?

[B]

Layout. They called it a lay about. But it's like for a. It's like, like to let someone pass you a shoulder. Shoulder. Thank you.

[A]

They're pulled over because they're like, look, we're gonna go look to go down and look at the river. We're gonna take a picture, take a family picture. So whatever, something, some nature thing.

They hear something and it's like everybody get in the car. We gotta get out of here. Then the motorcycle and the cyclist situation comes up and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Like it all kind of culminates in front of the car. And maybe they're all ducked down in the car, like stay quiet or whatever.

[B]

Well, they are panicking to get the fuck out of there.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In the car in such a way that. And I hated to fucking mention this. And the cyclist is dead like by the time he hits the ground. But they kind of dragged him a bit. Little, little bit.

[A]

Because they rolled over him.

[B]

Yeah. Like they were in such a hurry to get. They were freaking out to get out of there.

[A]

Which means they were killed second.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah. And there was on the. On this, on Syed's foot, on the bottom of his shoe was the cyclist's blood. So he was definitely out of the car at some point.

[A]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[B]

Sorry. God.

[A]

No, no, no, no. This is. I mean this couldn't have more details in it. It couldn't be more involved. So that basically is like, what if it's this. That family's coming down out of the woods on the. On across the street or whatever their. Is in the layabout they come upon as they're walking out.

[B]

They're not walking though because this first cyclist that came upon them remembers them passing him at like, like recently. They. They passed him. So they pulled into that lay of out like, like pretty quickly before they got killed.

[A]

Okay, so. Okay, so was they weren't off somewhere else.

[B]

Maybe they pulled over, the daughter had a pee. That's why they're both out of the car.

Him and his daughter maybe pee in the.

[A]

Why doesn't the mother go. That's weird.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Especially seven year old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But also if. Okay, also what happens fast if they come up on. Say it's a guy on a motorcycle holding a gun on a cyclist.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And they pull over. Like this is bad because it's the.

[B]

Guy who likes to kill cyclists.

[A]

Yeah. So he has some weird. It's. Say it's a cyclist serial killer. They come upon the act. The only thing is you wouldn't get.

[B]

Out of the car. Well, they wouldn't have pulled over probably.

[A]

Yeah. They would have like gunned it for the police. But if he was still alive, they may have because it's like they may.

[B]

Have on a guy with a gun with your family in the car. Yeah. I don't even know if I would do that. I would just drive full force into the gunman. But what if the guy. But what if the guy.

[A]

You would then become your. I would probably do that knowing nothing about it. You're like, I'm probably just gonna kill this guy.

[B]

But it's the other guy who's the killer. And he's like, thanks for killing the other person.

[A]

We're making a short film. What are you doing?

[B]

There's a camera next to the motorcycle.

[A]

The cameraman is dressed like a sniper up in the. Jesus Christ.

[B]

Yeah, dude. This one's always. You know, I love cold cases and unsolved shit and this. And it's just like. This is exactly why. It's just like. I just don't think it's the complicated answers. And if there are. If it is one of them, they're very. You could see them being the right answer. Those two suspects are. You know, it's definitely not the fucking. Not that they're engineers and they had government secrets and it's not the brother. I really, really don't think so.

[A]

Well, I mean I feel like they would have. If they found something at the brother's house, everyone would know about it because that would. Would be a victory. And they would have. If they could have. They would have pinned anything on that brother that would have lived in court. And obviously if there's nothing there, there's nothing there.

[B]

And he made a really good point himself. And he's like. He's kind of on. Happy to talk to the news all the time. He's one of those guys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he was like if someone were. If there were going to actually be a sniper and a hit on my brother, they. Why would they kill him in another country with his entire family? They would have killed him. Two shots to the head while he was leaving work or like out and about. They would wouldn't have. This is such a messy kill.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not that.

[A]

And the. To kill the whole family like for government secrets.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Unless it's. I mean sometimes they do that without.

[B]

Killing the main guy.

[A]

It sounds. Yes, exactly. Right. It's like a mafia thing to teach you a lesson. Yeah.

[B]

It's not that.

[A]

Cuz everybody goes. Everybody there is murdered and. But one person is. Is overkilled.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That. It's very interesting that thing of like the very clean military. Two shots to the head and two.

[B]

And it's. It's such. It's like one of the women were shot in the forehead. Like it's so exact. They're like a good shoot. Yes shoot.

[A]

A good shoot. And also that they're not ducking. Like obviously they're sitting there and was.

[B]

The little daughter already under her mom's legs?

[A]

I bet you that chicken mother was like get under here.

[B]

You know, she probably saw what was happening outside the car, had great instincts, jammed her under there. Yeah.

[A]

Maybe even did it just like the beginning of. You pull up and there's weird. Some weird vibe happening. And it's like get over here by me. You know that kind of. Oh man, that's crazy.

[B]

So the story is that the brother still sees his nieces. Zanib, the older daughter who had been shot, she made a full recovery and she and her younger sister, sister Xena, they now live in England with their maternal aunt and uncle. And the older daughter says she doesn't remember Most of the attack, they're like trying to get her to remember it, only that she says that there was only one bad man. And she remembers her father screaming to get in the car.

Yep.

[A]

Why is she out of the car?

[B]

I don't know. That's the antecene shootings.

[A]

That means that he was in the car. No, he was out of the car.

[B]

Get in the car. Yeah, out of the car. Car. Get in the. Let's get in the car. Like, get in the car.

[A]

So maybe she did run out to pee.

[B]

Yeah.

And he.

[A]

Yeah, he just got out. Good God.

[B]

I know. We're gonna find out. I feel like we're gonna find out and have an update on this.

[A]

It's so intense. It's also that frustrating thing of like, somebody say, you, I don't remember. You said what, like nationality they were.

[B]

Or they were from Iraq.

[A]

So things like that happen and people are victimized by a killer, but it suddenly goes into victim. Yes, you're a terrorist. What did you do? What secrets did you steal?

[B]

Whatever works. Anytime a Muslim gets killed, it's because. What. What did you do?

[A]

What terror cell did you belong to? Where it's like, no. Also think of, like, how many people. Not people I know, but like, how many people. People have jobs where you could kind of connect it back to something. Everybody has secrets. Everybody has something mysterious in their life or in their past that if you chose to look at that and blow it up, you could. I mean, Jesus.

[B]

That's the thing. And this is what we talked about earlier is just that the racial profiling will never make it fair to any of any kind of racial profiling, no matter what it is. It's like it's never going to make it fair to. If I can. To. It's never going to get you answers.

[A]

No, it's. Well, the. The main problem with it is there is we all suffer from implicit bias because our brain makes decisions for us. It's old, it's reptilian, but it's that thing where you have to decide, are you safe or not? And why? And that implicit bias, culturally, we have been told for years people of a certain ilk, people of a certain color are dangerous. That's the messaging and that is the message.

[B]

And even different, just. We don't even know how to. We don't know how to. What's it called? Anticipate what their actions are going to be because we don't know who they are. They're different somehow when really they're just humans.

[A]

Yes. Well, and it's that you've seen the video of like the white boy with an AK47 in the middle of the street. And the cops are like, put the gun down. Put the gun down. And they wait and they talk. Talk to him. And it goes on and on and everything. And they finally get the gun away from him. That's because they look at that person that looks like them and they're like, this is fine. We can handle this. Meanwhile, you've got a person who has. Is a registered gun over. Who. Gun owner who pulls over and there is a child in the car. And they fucking shoot.

[B]

Shoot into a car seven times. Like 30 seconds after he gets pulled over.

[A]

30 seconds after he gets pulled.

[B]

Pulled over and the fucking cop gets acquitted. Yeah.

Jesus Christ.

[A]

I mean.

The only good part about it, not that there's a good part about that murder. The good part about the world we live in now. And as hard as it is to live in, the world we live in now is just like after. You know, this is a. It's gonna sound bad when I first say it, but like after a facial when all of a sudden you're. You're so broken out that it's insane.

[B]

Pulls all the shit up.

[A]

It's the same fucking thing is for years people said to black people, there's no such thing as racial profiling. There's no. No, you don't get pulled over as much. I get it's all the same all lives matter bullshit. Nobody can say. I mean, people will say that. They'll insist. But I think more and more people are waking up to the fact this is an undeniable truth about a large swath of our population. Population who are pinpointed and victimized because of the way they look. And not just victimized. Like somebody was rude to me, they're fucking being murdered in the street.

[B]

Yeah. And murder is the. Murder is the word. It's not.

[A]

It's murder.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I remember telling my sister and I were talking about it and I was like, I just read a thing. I don't want to. He was. He was. He's the lunch man at a school.

[B]

And I knew.

[A]

He knew all the allergies, the kids who had allergies. He knew them. He made sure that they didn't get that food that like, peanut allergy or whatever. Like he. There's this idea that we're just taking out people based. Based on. And. And it's the.

Some. There's a really good quote of.

The bad. Cops should be afraid of the good Cops and not the other way around.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's this thing of not all cops are this way, but the ones that are. We have to stop saying that's okay, that they are. If you're trained, the training needs to be such that you don't just murder people because you're scared.

[B]

Right. And even if the guy was a fucking drug dealer and not a fucking school teacher or the lunch guy, it's like you still can't fucking shoot him. You can't murder people without any.

Just cause.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's that. Yeah, man, because you have.

[A]

You're having a reaction.

[B]

Right. Because you're scared. Because you're not a human in the fucking world.

Let's sit here tonight and solve this.

[A]

Yeah.

It's so frustrating. And also just the person we're talking about is Philando Castile, who was murdered.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so we should say that name.

You know, let's stop murdering each other. Ironically enough. Let's stop murdering each other.

[B]

Let's have the good people like us and Steven be in charge like us.

[A]

Fuck, no. Are you crazy?

[B]

We're such good people.

[A]

And we're back. Are there updates for this case?

[B]

There are updates. It's such a confounding case. On February 5th of this year, 2025, French investigators introduced a new theory in this case that the family were targets of a seasoned former soldier who was trained by the Swiss Special Forces. The soldier appeared to be staying at a campsite near the family and left the day of the murders. French investigators say they can track the same individual to a campsite six miles away from the murder of Xavier baligant that occurred one year prior to the Annecy murders. Xavier was murdered 300 miles away from Annecy. This murder also occur using a rare Swiss weapon. Police had also been investigating the potential theory that serial killer Norlin Lelandeas, an ex soldier who was the main suspect in other murders that occurred in the area. Lelandeus has been in custody since 2017 and is suspected of kidnapping and murdering a young girl and killing a hitchhiker. In 2020, investigators received a judicial expertise report back from a British forensic psychiatrist with a profile of the gunman suspected in the Annecy shootings. It said he was probably in his 30s to Fort Accustomed to failure, lived alone, was underemployed and had a previous criminal record. Then in April of 2020, Zainab told her aunt she remembered being grabbed by a man of average build who had bitten fingernails. And a year later, she gave more details, saying she remembered a man shouting at her to get back in the car before a fair skinned man dressed in leather grabbed her. And that same year, her younger sister described the attacker as a bald, fair skinned European male between the ages of 45 to 55 with bad shaven facial hair, blue eyes and gray hairs on his round face. And actually, Benedict Cumberpatch is set to produce a six part limited series based on the events called the Annecy Murders. So hopefully that'll do what the yogurt shop documentary did and bring more attention to this case so they'll put more resources on it and hopefully it can finally get solved.

[A]

Yeah, that'd be amazing. Okay, well, now let's head back so we can wrap up the show.

[B]

All right, well, do you have anything positive in this?

[A]

You go. Now I'm mad.

[B]

Oh, no. Okay, well, so I'm trying to stay off social media at night especially because I have insomnia and it's really fucked up and it makes, it makes it worse when I read stuff.

[A]

So it's all bad news.

[B]

It's just all bad news. So I'm trying to read more because I really love reading and it's. I realize it's just become this thing that I don't fucking do anymore because.

[A]

I'm so like reading a book.

[B]

Yeah, reading a book. Which is like one of my fucking joys in life, aside from cats. So I found two now, which I'm really excited about. And so I'm like toggle, which I never do this. I'm like toggling between them because one's spooky and creepy and one's like.

Not. So the two I'm reading right now, we talked about this. She did a story on one of our minisodes, but it's called Startup by Dori Shafrer. I just started reading it and I'm like more than halfway done. It's so fucking good. It's about these fucked up tech people in the modern world. And what will make you want to do is not ever look at your phone again. So it's really helpful.

[A]

It's a novel or it's a novel.

[B]

And it's like millennial techies in New York. And it's these different stories about each of them and it's just like it makes you glad for who you are.

[A]

Anyways, and this is. She's married to Matt. Myra, yes. That's how I know who she. I've never met her, but I know.

[B]

Her husband and she's like a senior tech editor at BuzzFeed for years. So she's like this book is clearly like really well done. It's. It's really fucking intriguing and good and I love it. And then the creepy fucking scary one that I'm totally. I can't read that late cause I'm scared as called. It's called Black Mad Wheel and it's by Josh Malerman, which is actually a friend of Vince's from. From Michigan, and he wrote this incredible book called the Bird Box that's creepy and fucked up and post apocalyptic. And this one's Black Mad Wheel and it's fucking creepy. And it's about like this noise that the government comes to like, make this dude who's a musician find out where the noise is coming from because it's like making nuclear not work anymore. And it's just like super spooky.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

Yeah. So fucking reading and getting out of this is making is helping me.

[A]

That's good. Yeah, that's very good.

[B]

What about you?

[A]

The positive thing? Oh, well, this is. Okay, I will say it this way. So I. One night, and we've talked about on the podcast, I crashed my car as I was leaving our recording.

[B]

Totaled it.

[A]

I totaled the old Honda Fit.

[B]

It got totaled. You didn't total it.

[A]

Yeah, that's true. It was in a car accident that then totaled the. Because it was relatively worthless. If only dog hair was worth money, it would have been the most expensive car in Los Angeles. But not the case. So since that time, and I think that was last November.

[B]

Oh my God. Or December.

[A]

It was a long time ago. I haven't had a car. So I've been like taking Lyft and taking Uber and just doing whatever for a while at a rental car. And I was spending so much money a week like an idiot. Like, like, whatever. Well, I finally called my sister because then I started researching cars and car prices and which ones are reliable. Whatever. And then it got worse.

[B]

So overwhelming.

[A]

Then I could not make a decision. And I was like, but I'm not a BMW person, but I don't want to buy. I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a kind of mediocre car.

[B]

Whatever.

[A]

Finally I called my sister because I was going to go home for Father's Day. I did go home for Father's Day. I called my sister and I was like, can you please help me? And she. I think for so long. Like, my mom was sick for so long. And we were all so stressed out for so long. And we were all just trying to get by for so long that, like, my sister and I would fight over nothing. And then we would have to, like, stop talking for a while because it was just bad.

[B]

It was bad things. Yeah, a lot of tension.

[A]

Tension and guilt and, like, everything. It was like nobody was happy. Right. For 12 years.

And that was. It ended two years ago.

You know, which is a good thing ultimately, so. But I finally realized this is one of the main things my sister and I fight about, is how fucking controlling she is. Like, I have to ask her to unlock the car door so I can get out. And it makes me so mad. Like, I have all these. I have all these things where, like, if the car door is locked, when I try to get out of it, I am immediately enraged.

[B]

I'm the same way when I try to get into it. You're coming to pick me up or we're walking to the car together and I have. And I try to open the handle and it doesn't fucking open. And you know, I'm there. Dude, I totally get it. Like, why? I just. The, like, pull up of the handle and it doesn't open immediately. How dare you. Makes me furious.

[A]

How dare you? And for me, the pull of the car door and it doesn't open is like, immediately I want to scream. I'm not six years old. Like a six year old would. So anyway, I just texted my sister or called her, I can't remember. And I said, please help me buy a car. And she fucking basically delivered a new car into my hands. And it was so awesome because I felt guilty. I was only going up for this, basically 48 hours for to see my dad. I knew that was gonna take a huge chunk of time, which would, in the past make her mad, but not. She couldn't act mad, so it would.

[B]

Be like all that stuff. Oh, God, sister.

[A]

So instead I was like, can you please help me? Like, I can't take another Uber. And she was like, I got you and delivered.

[B]

Some people are just. We're all good at something different.

[A]

Well, exactly. And she goes, I said, thank you for momming me through this. And she was like, it's my favorite thing to do. It's like we basically figured out the good points of those things instead of always the bad.

[B]

You used her. Her powers of being a control freak for good.

[A]

Yes. And I got to get my baby.

Somebody help me out.

[B]

And it worked.

[A]

And it worked.

[B]

You asked for help. And it. And it was delivered.

[A]

And I didn't get kicked in the goddamn teeth. So anyway, now I have a new car and I love it. And I can make phone calls from my steering wheel and all these things that modern people just seem to do.

[B]

You just, just got a flip phone and taped it, duct taped it to your steering wheel. I got a new phone and I mean, I got a new car and it has a phone in it. No, it's a fucking sweet car. And it's made me want to buy a new car too.

[A]

It's nice. It's. Well, also just you have to have a car. You have to. I mean, I would do things like I wouldn't have groceries and I'd be like, I have to figure out the next time I go to Georgia's and I take an Uber home. First I'm going to walk to the grocery store, then I'll get the Uber. Like, shit like that. Or where it's like, this is sick.

[B]

Hey, let's make my life harder.

[A]

That's what I'm all about. I like to stack problems and never solve them.

[B]

My therapist is like, spend your fucking money. Even if, like, whatever money you have, spend a little chunk of it to make your life easier. Because you're always stressed out about making about life being hard.

[A]

That's right. You can't. It's so true. Like, you have to remind yourself, yourself of the good part of what you have. Like, there's lots of things to be stressed out about. If you work really hard and you work all the time and that's your life. I get it. And I do the same thing. Take the money that you make and instead of being paranoid about not having this or that, spend that money. So you understand what the good part about working hard is for.

[B]

Dude. And it's happened to me today. Get your house cleaned professionally or apartment cleaned. One once a month. I don't care how small your apartment is. It's brain changing.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good idea.

[B]

It's brain changing. I'm gonna do that chemistry change.

[A]

Also, I have to get a handyman to come and pick up the couch that's just laying on my patio.

[B]

That would make sense.

[A]

I'm a little Sanford and Son at my house. Just because I can't. It's that thing. I might have to call my sister.

[B]

Stuff like, that's hard. It's hard sometimes, man. We're just. Everyone's just doing. Doing our best. Yeah, everyone's trying to do Steven's best, but that's too high of a. I wish I could do Steven's best.

[A]

Steven, if you owned a truck, you could take care of me.

[B]

He would do it tomorrow.

Do you want to buy me a truck?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We're in. Steven, a U haul.

[A]

Laura, get Steven a truck.

[B]

Laura.

[A]

Laura.

[B]

Okay, we are back.

[A]

So this episode was originally titled Jews versus Cast Catholics.

[B]

So if we were naming it today.

[A]

Maybe we would call it a Milkmaid's Constitution, which is my joke that that's how Mary Ashford stayed out all night.

[B]

Or we could call it Georgia's Early Rave Days. The remix that Stephen made.

[A]

And then of course, AKA corn, which is the joke we made about Ma.

[B]

All right, thank you guys for listening to another episode of Rewind. Let's say goodbye back in the good old shitty days of 2017. 17.

You guys, more than anything, thank you for listening and being good people.

[A]

Hopefully even you Skippers.

[B]

Skippers.

[A]

And especially you, Satanists.

[B]

Yay. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Elvis, you want a cookie? Bye.

Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz. We host the podcast Mind the Business. Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Student in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

[A]

We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[B]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie. That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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