Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 81: Weapon Bush

Summary

My Favorite Murder REWIND: Episode 81 "Weapon Bush"

Podcast: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Release Date: January 28, 2026 (Original episode: August 10, 2017)
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark

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Episode Overview

In this Rewind episode, Karen and Georgia revisit a classic My Favorite Murder installment: Episode 81, famously titled "Weapon Bush." The show features their warm camaraderie, irreverent humor, and deep dives into some of the most haunting true crime cases. As with other Rewind editions, they provide fresh context, personal anecdotes, cultural reflections, and candid discussions about the cases covered. Episode 81 looks back at two infamous stories: the sadistic crimes of Peter Kürten (“The Vampire of Düsseldorf”) and the controversial, complex MacDonald family murders involving Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald.

This Rewind also highlights how perspectives on crime, language, and podcasting itself have evolved since the episode's original airing. The hosts are candid about their growth, the feedback they've received, and the need for continuous learning, particularly regarding social issues and responsible storytelling.

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Main Segments & Key Discussion Points

1. Rewinding to Episode 81 & Early Banter

Timestamps: 02:42–12:00

• The hosts discuss the accidental origins of the episode title "Weapon Bush," reminiscing about chaos in the studio—including dog escapes, hot tears, and burger deliveries.
• Karen shares a misadventure with her escape-artist dog, George, illustrating everyday chaos and their authentic friendship.
• Georgia: “Crying in front of strangers is the most, like, vulnerable you can be. And you hope they react well. You're like, ‘Oh, honey, it's okay.’” (05:33)
• A detour into the health of beloved pets Elvis (dog) and Dottie (kitten), setting a lighthearted, relatable tone.

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2. Corrections, Medical Terms & Audience Engagement

Timestamps: 08:16–11:32

• The hosts revisit a past confusion about brain hemorrhages versus aneurysms, quoting a detailed explanation from comedian Kara Klink’s neurologist brother, Colin.
• Georgia reads:

  “The good news is, neither of you was wrong. Generally speaking, hemorrhage just means bleeding, usually profusely, but not always… So cerebral hemorrhage is just a general term for bleeding in the brain. Lots of different things can cause cerebral hemorrhage, including trauma or aneurysms, as Karen pointed out.” (09:20)

• Emphasizes the ongoing learning process and how the MFM community—including listeners with expert knowledge—helps set the record straight.

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3. Addressing Criticism, Learning About Privilege & Inclusion

Timestamps: 12:26–18:49

• Karen and Georgia address a critical article about the podcast, engaging with accusations of racism in true crime media and their own blind spots as hosts.
• Karen underscores the importance of listening and not centering white defensiveness:

  "It's hard to be told you're racist... So I just want to say, we are listening to you and we hear you and we are your allies." (14:02)

• Georgia reflects on privilege, referencing an experience with anti-Semitism:

  “...this whole time I've been like, well, I'm Jewish and the name Hardstark doesn't look Jewish. And so I missed this whole level of racism. Anti-Semitism.” (15:02)

• They reiterate a commitment to learning, correcting, and fostering an inclusive community.

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4. Tour Announcements & Personal Anecdotes

Timestamps: 19:20–23:47

• The hosts enthusiastically share updates for their international tour, including landmark venues like the Sydney Opera House.
• Karen recounts a tender family history, detailing how her parents met aboard the Matson Lines—sparking both tears and laughter:

  "He said the second he saw her, he goes, she was wearing a green sweater and I knew I'm in trouble." (21:34)

• Light moments on mixing up names, parental occupations, and the chaos of live logistics (including Steven, their producer, wrangling burger deliveries).

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5. Tangents, True Crime Obsession & “Weapon Bush” Origins

Timestamps: 33:24–35:44

• A playful deconstruction of how George the dog earned the nickname "Weapon Bush," due to her acrobatic escapes across neighborly fences and creative problem-solving.
• Hilarity in recounting how neighborhood pets outsmart their owners, and reflections on how casual asides often become running episode motifs.

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Main Case 1: The Vampire of Düsseldorf (Peter Kürten)

Presented by: Karen Kilgariff
Timestamps: 40:19–63:11

Key Points & Memorable Moments

• Early Trauma and Pathology:
  • Born 1883, endured violent, abusive, and sexually exploitative upbringing. Befriends a dog catcher who tortures animals and introduces him to cruelty.
  • First murders at age 11—drowning two classmates (44:00).
• Escalation:
  • Animal cruelty turns into sexual violence and homicide. Early 20s: begins breaking into houses, commits serial murders of young girls and women, often returning to crime scenes to observe.
• Signature Behaviors:
  • Notably, brings scissors as a weapon, and enjoys taunting police, even joining angry mobs after his own crimes (54:37).
  • Dubbed "The Vampire of Düsseldorf" after press learns he drank victims' blood.
  • Confession includes 79 separate offenses; ultimately convicted and executed by guillotine in 1931, having sat caged during his trial to protect him from victims’ families (62:06).
• Quote:

  “He is a true original. Oh, I was gonna say it reminds me of the child murderer from Guernsey...very similar vibe.” – Karen (63:09)

Notable Quotes:

• “He was made to sit in a cage in the courtroom so that the family members of the victims didn't attack and kill him.” – Karen (62:06)
• “He is a deranged mind... all the worst things combined.” – Karen (47:19)

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Main Case 2: The MacDonald Family Murders (Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald)

Presented by: Georgia Hardstark
Timestamps: 66:44–113:43

Key Points & Memorable Moments

• Who Was Jeffrey MacDonald?
  • An accomplished doctor, Princeton grad, Green Beret, seemingly living the American dream, when his pregnant wife Colette and two daughters are brutally murdered at Fort Bragg, NC, in 1970.
• MacDonald’s Version:
  • Claims commune of “acid-crazed hippies” broke in, chanting “Acid is groovy. Kill the pigs,” and attacked his family. His explanation seems rehearsed and implausible, especially given the details (71:09).
• Immediate Police Scrutiny:
  • Superficial wounds to MacDonald, staged crime scene, lack of supporting physical evidence. Investigators quickly suspect him.
• Iconic Details:
  • The story "Weapon Bush" emerges from analysis of the supposedly discarded weapons—all found conveniently tossed beneath the same bush outside (81:28).
• Actual Forensic Evidence:
  • Each family member had a different blood type, allowing unprecedented crime scene reconstruction (94:12).
  • Blood spatter, pajama threads, and magazine evidence (involving an Esquire story on the Manson murders) all point clearly to staging by MacDonald.
• Why Did He Do It?
  • Escalating marital disputes, MacDonald’s amphetamine use and narcissism, and a night of uncontrolled violence led to the murders. He attempted to mislead investigators with a fabricated story and self-inflicted, non-life-threatening wounds (108:38).
• Long-Term Impact:
  • MacDonald maintains his innocence, even after conviction and decades in prison. The complexity of the case, carelessness of 1970s evidence handling, and presence of other supposed confessions (by local drug users) continue to fuel debate.
• Notable Quotes:

  "So that's how. What really happened. Jeffrey McDonald is now 68 and he remarried and is still in prison." – Georgia (109:11)
  "How is it any easier for someone else to do it?... It's not. That's why he is this anomaly and this freak and this thing that we want to look at and talk about." – Karen (113:19)

Case Update:

• MacDonald remains incarcerated (as of 2026), his appeals consistently denied, highlighted in recent documentaries (e.g., FX’s "A Wilderness of Error") (113:43).

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Community, Reflection & Final Thoughts

Timestamps: 114:54–117:43

• Karen and Georgia cap the episode with appreciation for their listeners and the journey from chaos to deeper understanding. Possible alternate episode titles are brainstormed (“Moment of Chaos,” “Levels of Hysteria”), poking fun at their own narrative style.
• The episode closes with gratitude, reminders of the importance of audience correction and growth, and the classic sign-off:

  "Stay sexy and don't get murdered." (117:41)

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Notable Quotes

• On Evolving Language:
  “If you listen from the beginning, we didn't say (sex workers), we said prostitutes. Because we didn't know. As soon as we find, we correct ourselves...” – Georgia (17:36)

• On Podcasting:
  “We haven’t said it in a while, but, like, we didn’t know this would be a thing and we still don’t know this is a thing, this podcast.” – Georgia (07:14)

• On True Crime Fascination:
  “That to me, that like move right there is what I'm in it for, because it feels like if you took pictures of every crime scene of the people that were lined up, you could see the people who were respons...” – Karen, discussing serial killer psychology (55:32)

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Key Timestamps Index

• 02:42 – Introduction to Rewind; podcast chaos
• 08:16–11:32 – Medical corrections corner: hemorrhage vs. aneurysm
• 12:26–18:49 – Addressing criticism, race, and inclusive language
• 19:20–23:47 – Tour stories and personal family anecdotes
• 40:19–63:11 – Case 1: The Vampire of Düsseldorf (Peter Kürten)
• 66:44–113:43 – Case 2: The MacDonald Family Murders
• 114:54–117:43 – Closing reflections and sign-off

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Tone & Style

Throughout, Karen and Georgia balance their signature irreverence, authenticity, and empathy—melding dark subject matter with moments of levity and self-deprecating humor. The conversational, tangential style invites listeners into their friendship, while the structure ensures the gravity of the cases is respected.

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Summary for New Listeners

This rewind episode provides rich context for two infamous criminal cases—one European, one American—framed by the hosts’ ongoing journey as public figures and learners. Along the way, listeners are treated to honest asides about podcasting chaos, evolving language, and mental health.
Not just a recap—this episode pulls listeners into the heart of what makes My Favorite Murder a true-crime classic: careful research, introspection, and a unique exchange between two friends still discovering, in real time, what it means to tell these stories right.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the Palisade you know, but with even more to love.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

And Palisade Hybrid comes with an available class exclusive dash camera feature for extra peace of mind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Hyundai Palisade Hybrid is the SUV that will inspire you to make the most of every journey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Learn more about the Hyundai palisade@hyundai USA.com.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Call 562-314-4603 for complete details. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. Sunday mornings I've got my game day ritual.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Coffee, lucky socks, and now new morning Uncrustable sandwiches. It's all about that 12 gram protein boost with the new uncrustables Bright eyed berry or up and apple flavors. Bright Eye Berries got a feisty receiver energy up and apple. Your classic do it all tight end, soft pillowy, packed with protein and easy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Enough for Gronk to grab from the freezer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whether you're on the couch, driving to the tailgate or heading to the locker room, New morning Uncrustable sandwiches are the MVP of snacks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With new morning uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein. The worst part about loving cars might just be buying them and all the parts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But on ebay, behind every car and part is a story waiting to be shared. There was a guy who bought a 2021 Porsche Cayman that was well loved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, there are plenty of Caymans in great condition on ebay, but this one needed some work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This guy buys it and rebuilds the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whole thing, all with parts he found on ebay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And now that nearly scrap Cayman is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Out tearing up the track.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From Toyotas to Aston Martins, ebay has.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thousands of cars and the largest online selection of vehicle parts and accessories. Ebay Things people love. My favorite hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen. Karen in Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was I supposed to say that whole part at the beginning?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I think I was supposed to say to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every Wednesday we recap our old shows with new commentary, updates and insights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Today we're recapping episode 81. I have no idea why this episode is called Weapon Bush, but I can't wait to find out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, these are some of the fun mysteries that get solved for us internally as we do these rewind episodes. And this one came out August 10, 2017.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So let's listen to the intro of episode 81. Weapon Bush. You never laughed so quickly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The smile you just gave me was like, karen, I know you're losing your mind. Please be here with me now. Guys, I just. Hello. Welcome to my favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi. That's Karen, that's Georgia. Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My dogs just got out. As I was driving over here, I got a call from my God, blessed neighbor, Carolyn, who is the one who people go to. Cause she knows everybody in the neighborhood. She baked cookies, I think. So she's the best neighbor. And my dog's already got out once this week. And so when I saw her name come up on my phone, I was like, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God. And it was her, Frank and George. Bad dogs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's George. So she's. There's the front gate. It's locks, but kind of not really. And I think she's pushing on it. And so I had just left the house to come over here to record.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell everyone your address and where the gate is, and everyone can just go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Check it every once in a while as a favor. I think it would be nice. It's the worst feeling when, A, your dogs are out. B, they don't have name tags on because somehow the name tags have fallen off over the years and I've never replaced them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And C, they've already gotten out once this week and alerted the entire neighborhood was in action, trying. And they were out all day because I was at work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You walked in to the apartment with, like, a perfectly drop of tear on your glasses. Like it had been raining on the inside of her glasses. There was, like, this perfect teardrop.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's always raining inside of me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was just like this huge. You should have seen teardrop.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, you know how I can be. When I got out of Lucky.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And a ballet dancer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sometimes she just says ballet for no reason.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So graceful, so ladylike. I got out of my car, and there was a man sitting on his front porch. And I walked up, and he didn't say anything to me, and I didn't say anything to him. And then finally I went, do you have the dogs? And he was like, yeah. And he goes, is everything okay? And I go, I guess not. And then I just started bawling in front of a man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. Crying in front of strangers is the most, like, vulnerable you can be. And you hope they react well. You're like, oh, honey, it's okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was shocked. I would say he was shocked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then later, was he like, how dad was he? Like, what level of love he was, dad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I think he had a little bit of the. Get your shit together. These dogs were wandering in the street, which I. That's the burn of it, is that I 100% agree with him. The fact that it's happened several times is, like, unforgivable. And the idea that I'm just fucking driving around, my dogs are, like, just in the street, just Milo and Otis. Ing the fuck out of it. I'm very upsetting. So anyway, that's how I. That's the energy I'm bringing tonight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think that's why I smiled at you like that. Yes. It was like, wait, how are you gonna do this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Such kindness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because it's been 10 minutes since you got here. It's not like we had to sit down and we all talked and had tea. No one had tea or biscuits.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. I came in hot with tears.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tears.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hot tears.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hot tears on the inside.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not my style. And now Georgia's trying to hold my energy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've hugged you twice. Yes. And that's, like, the most I've ever hugged anyone in my life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was really nice. I really appreciate it, genuinely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're welcome. No way. We have burgers being delivered. We're gonna have to break for burgers at some point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My God. And then I look at my phone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Carolyn.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I actually want to leave my phone up just in case.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm leaving mine up right now. Only because of burgers. Otherwise, it stresses me out so much. Okay. I'm gonna scream, burgers. You're gonna hear a pause. You're not gonna hear a pause. You're gonna hear nothing. Cause this is a fucking professional podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. Stephen's gonna cut it out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We haven't said it in a while, but, like, we didn't know this would be a thing, and we still don't know this is a thing, this podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a large adjustment. We're doing our best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're doing our best not to think about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because we just love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're just trying to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're just trying to. We're doing our best. Looking. Listen, look and listen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Looking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mashing words up this time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You got anything?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis is healthy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good. Let's get it. Let's get.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We've missed a couple weeks of this, so let's get one at the Top Elvis. One cookie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's how healthy he is. He was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was, like, Tom Jones level vocal, pronounced, hi, friend.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And now it's the other question. Cause I can't get up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very helpful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Steven, will you give Elvis a cookie, please? One cookie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I'm on it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cookie boy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, hell, yeah. So basically, he had the flu.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He had the flu. He had the plague. That Dottie the kitten brought. Yeah, she's adorable. She's here. Mimi's here. Everyone's here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Life's back to normal. Nice feeling. I do have something. Okay. Okay, so. God, it feels like it's been so long. Yeah. The last time that we podcast, remember, I was like, he had a brain hemorrhage and no bleeding or something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were talking about, like, what's a. Is a brain hemorrhage this? Or is it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're talking about aneurysms. We're going into things that we've heard of but don't know about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were speculating. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's all we do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it turns out that our friend Kara Klink.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hilarious comedian. Her brother is a brain surgeon. What? Of some sort. Why?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She never told me about that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Want me to find out? Let's see. She texted me and said, my brother is a neurologist. And he said, I'm listening to my favorite murder. And they're asking doctors who are listening to weigh in on brain hemorrhage. Get me Georgia's direct number. And I met him, and he's like this sweet, normal kid, like, at a comedy party. And you're like, all these fucking comedians. And he's just like, hey, I'm a brain doctor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Hello.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is so cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pull him aside.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know somebody. Okay. So he. I was like, yes. I need it to know everything. So his name is Colin. Hi, Georgia. This is Colin, Kara's brother. Here's my little blurb on cerebral hemorrhage. As you do. The good news is, neither of you was wrong. Generally speaking, hemorrhage just means bleeding. Usually profusely, but not always. For example, even a small amount of blood in the brain can be disastrous, and it's still called a hemorrhage. So cerebral hemorrhage is just a general term for bleeding in the brain. Lots of different things can cause cerebral hemorrhage, including trauma or aneurysms, as Karen pointed out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just being like. So Karen was right. So are you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like a grammar school teacher encouraging.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Us to learn to not to just keep talking out of school just to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just to not give up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cerebral hemorrhage can also lead to stroke, as you alluded. He's like, karen was right, Georgia. And here were you two. Also, quick clarification about aneurysms since it came up. An aneurysm is just a bulging of an artery due to weakness in the artery wal. Plenty of people walk around with aneurysms every day. Can you tell that I'm not practiced in speaking smart words?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aneurysm is a hard word to say.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All of my mouth hurts right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also the concept that you just introduced is very difficult. I don't even want to talk about that. We're all walking. That's like the shingles virus is already inside you. I don't want to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The shingles virus is calling from inside that body.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The shingles virus is sneaking up on you with a big knife.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But you turn around and you. Or you close the medicine cabinet mirror and it's gone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then it's on your back and it's hygiene.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. They only become hemorrhages when they rupture and bleed into the surrounding tissue.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I said, this is such great info. Thank you. I'll read it for Corrections Corner next week. My pleasure. Blah, blah, blah. Also, apologies. Send my apologies to Steven. I ran outside to him. I ran into him outside Kara's apartment when I was in LA last month and accosted him like, excuse me, are you Steven Ray Morris? Big fan. And I wrote ha. He loves that shit. Oh, I loved it. Yes. Made my day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Big fan of Steven's editing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, yeah, that was because I did the pizza bomber murder. And remember the woman who they thought killed her ex boyfriend had sent him. He had an aneurysm. But I was like, you can't get an aneurysm unless someone hits you. I don't know. I made some shit up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, right, right, right. Well, we have these ideas. It's all from Forensic Files. It's all just sitting in our brain. From a combination of Forensic Files and Law and Order where you're like, oh, I know this. Let me take this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let me take this. Because I've taken every single episode of Forensic Files and put them into one into my brain. So I was like, this one girl who was dying of an aneurysm who then put a bomb of pizza around the neck of a parrot, who then told. Who then testified in court.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So insane. Yeah, that was a really good case.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That Was a good case. What do you have? Anything?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just this one aneurysm. You know what? I will. I wanna say this, and this is like, I don't want it to be a big deal, but there was an article written on Bitch Media, okay? And it was an article about this podcast being racist. And there's been people who contacted us on social media, I think, feeling nervous about that or defensive. And here's what I'd like to say.

[Georgia Hardstark]

About other people calling about that article.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And about that idea and the defending kicked out or feeling like, I don't like this or I want you guys to know that we like you or whatever. And here's what I'd like to say. We now live in a political climate where neo Nazis feel totally fine wielding their ignorance in the fucking street.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We used to be ashamed of that, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We live in a political climate where mosques are being blown up, where black people are getting shot on the street, where people are being deported away from their families. This is serious. People of color are scared and they're upset and they have a right to be. And if anyone who is a person of color hears something they don't like, we want to hear about it and we are listening. We won't argue with you on social media. We won't engage it. But we will do the thing that I think is the most important thing for white people to do right now, which is to take their ego out of it and to take their reactivity out of it. And it's hard to be told you're racist. It's hard to be told that when you think you're so woke or you think you're being an ally, for someone to stand up and go, it doesn't work. We don't like this. So I just want to say we are listening to you and we hear you and we are your allies. Just so they know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I. And because I don't want this thing to start up of like, anyone needs to fight or that. I want to support anyone who's trying to use their voice to fight for equality. It's important. Especially now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I agree. Or someone saying, like. But they've said these things and they've covered these cases. So they're not like those. You know, it's not like you do A, B and C and then you're not racist anymore. Or you're not doing or saying racist things are not even racist. It's not even racist. It's things that are incorrect. Like, historically, like, you're not supposed to say you know, we're learning every. I'm constantly trying to learn what, what I'm doing that I. Even though I think I'm this fucking woke person too, I don't know what I'm doing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And we do things that we don't realize because this popular, this podcast is popular. We do not want to propagate the negative media stereotype of people of color. We do not want to do that. If we do it, we want to stop doing it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Any minority?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Any we. I know how fucking hugely privileged I am. Yeah. And actually this thing happened recently to me that kind of hit me over the head even more so because I've always been like, well, I'm Jewish, so I kind of understand, like some kind of minority bullshit thing. Right. But it's like, recently I went to this doctor, he's Jewish with like a very Jewish last name. And he looked at my chart and he was like, you know, finding out my history. And I was like, well, I'm Jewish, blah, blah, blah. And he was like, he saw my last name and he was like, wow, you're really lucky that you don't have a Jewish sounding last name because you didn't get the anti Semitism that people who have Jewish last names get. And I was like, oh, God. This whole time I've been like, well, I'm Jewish and the name Hardstark doesn't look Jewish. And so I missed this whole level of racism. Anti Semitism. Yeah. And just because of that, which is like, oh, you just don't know until you are told or you see it, what you're not experiencing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's hard to. It's hard to understand what you're blind to. It's hard to know what you don't know. And so the key is listening. The key is paying attention.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then you hear this thing too, of like, it's not their. It's not other people's jobs to teach us to teach you and I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't, like, don't. We can't be like, well, tell us what we're doing wrong. That's not their job. And I know it's really frustrating for a lot of people of color to have to. Or to, you know, the LGBTQ community to have to teach us. That's. It's our job to learn, not for them to tell us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So we just want those people who might, if you're still listening and you've ever felt othered or in any kind of a reactive position like that because of anything we've said on this podcast, that is the absolute last thing we want to be happening. The best thing about this podcast is the community that has grown up around true crime and around is the most lovely thing to see in the world. And we want people to be a part of that. We don't want anyone to feel like they're not welcome or they're not adored, that they're not being listened to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I think a lot of people who have been listening to the beginning know that, because we'll always read emails and letters from people who are like, here's what you did. Like, even using the term sex workers, if you listen from the beginning, we didn't say that. We said prostitutes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because we didn't know. We didn't know. As soon as we find we correct ourselves and admit that. Not admit. We say we did something wrong, here's an email from someone who is teaching us I did it. Is telling us the correct way to do it, because they understand that we want to learn. Right. You know, and it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just a process, and it's a flawed process. But we. I think it's important at this moment in time that we identify ourselves as allies, flawed allies that are doing their best. Because that's the key. I think so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think we've been avoiding it for a long time because it feels like the more you even slightly interact, it's. You're adding fuel to a fire that you just don't want to be happening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Knowledge. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the truth of it is, like, everybody feeling really scared in the last couple days because this fucking nuclear war thing. Well, the thing that made me realize is people of color feel like this every single day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck yeah, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every single fucking day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm so glad you brought this up, Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's. It's just. We live in a really fucking scary time. But there's. It's. I don't know, let's all. Let's all stick together, I guess.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The people who support each other, we. We don't have to feel like there's such a huge force of people who are on a certain side and we can't identify with each other. And you and I have this really fucking amazing opportunity out of nowhere. Like we said we didn't know this was gonna be a thing. Well, fuck, yeah. Thank you for bringing that up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of course.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm really glad you did. You did it very eloquently.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've been thinking about it a lot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't. Don't think a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is there Anything else?

[Georgia Hardstark]

God, I feel like it's been. Oh, like it's been a while. Oh, tour dates. God damn it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I really quickly wanted to go over just the dates that have been added and the ones for people to. To go look at. All right, I'm gonna. I'm gonna spew some dates at you guys really quickly though. If you just want to go to my favorite murder.com live, there's links to. There's a list of shows and links to the actual tickets. So you're not going to get scalped or anything like that. But so a couple of that have been added and to check out really soon, September 6th, which is in less than a frickin month. We're gonna be in. In Auckland, New Zealand at the Bruce Mason Center.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So please go get those tickets.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, Auckland. Hey, what's up? Meet us at Bruce Mason, please. You know when you go down to Bruce Mason to go watch all your violin playing and stuff?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that what they do there?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't picture. I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bring me Auckland, New Zealand snacks, please. Because all I want to do in Australia and New Zealand is eat like hand pies and stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Tim Tams.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Tim Tams. I'm so excited about the food.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's going to be good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We added a Second, a fucking third show. Melbourne, Australia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Third.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Badass motherfucker. September 10th, which is again very soon. We've added a third show at the comedy theater because you guys are awesome. We've added. Oh, I'm sorry. Who's playing the Sydney Opera house, Karen, on September 12th.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you know who's gonna be playing? I believe it's you and I. I believe you are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is insane, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is. My dad actually tried to figure out a way to go with us. He is so excited that we're playing the Sydney Oper. I don't know why it means so much to him, but it really means a lot. I think it's because he's gone to Sydney. Cause he used to be a purser on Princess Cruises.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's a purser?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The guy that carries your bags.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like that's how my parents met and so they. You don't know that story?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking kidding me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My mom was a nurse and my dad was a purser on like the Matson lines.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And my mom was already engaged. And when they met, my dad talked about this actually at her funeral service, which was so sweet. He said the second he saw her, he goes, she was wearing a green sweater and I knew I'm in trouble.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want to start.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Isn't that the best? So anyway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How did I not know this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. It's the best. So he. There's a lot of, like, emotional attachment to Australia and to Sydney. Did I really just make you cry?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. I think I'm getting my period, and my meds have been real screwy lately, but that's still the sweetest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's kind of the best. And he was gonna try to go with us, but he, like, they.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My parents met wherever. Who gives a shit? They got divorced. But, like, your parents met, and he really did follow through.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were. Yeah, it's true. They were married for almost 50 years.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or four. Yeah. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like 45 years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. It was. It was good times. I mean, that's a. It was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, it was a wife. It was a life well lived.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Yes, it really.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This was. She got the man of her dreams, and she had a happy marriage and two kids. One who had a pretty good podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, your sister has a podcast in children's lives? Your sister has a podcast?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. Happy birthday, by the way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice move, Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Laura. God damn it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you call her Karen?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I called her Sarah. And you know why? Because the only reason I can remember her name is because you worked with Sarah Silverman. Sarah Silverman's sister's name is Laura. So I always think Karen and Sarah. I know Karen and Laura.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's hilarious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that weird? I can't remember names.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't edit that out. I apologize to Laura.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She'll think it's funny as long as you didn't call her Karen, which is what happens to her all the time. And it makes her really mad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Really?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because people, like family friends, will walk up and go, are you Karen the comedian? And she'll go, no, I'm Laura, the one that shapes children's minds. She's a teacher because she's a genius teacher.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nbd. No big deal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay? Those were our two.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, no, wait. There's a few more that are. Oh, shit. Steven the third's here. Oh, God, I just hung up on him. Shit. Steven, can you do me a big favor and go down to the. Don't cut this. I'm gonna eat all of it, though, at the bottom of the stairs with this. Can you. Yeah. Is this edited? Okay, but don't stop it. Keep going. Bring the key to the gate, because sometimes they will lock you Out. There's a key, like on the hook. No, no, no, no. Yeah, I just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, just bring the key hook. It's good. Also, can I just say, in this moment of chaos, first of all, chaos is a ladder, as we all learned on Game of Thrones last week. No spoilers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, do you watch that? But I said burgers, and then I'll. You can leave burgers in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, burger time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Burger time. Okay, so. So Sydney Opera House, September 12, coming up. And then, oh, Detroit, we added a show to you, which is so cool because people like. So we're going to be in Detroit September 29th and September 29th, there's an early show and a late show. And then San Diego, we added a show because you're fucking awesome too. September 13th, there's a late show. And then Anaheim, we're coming to you on the 14th of October 2nd show at the Orpheum in Madison, Wisconsin. Wisconsin, Nice. You guys sold out Friday the 20th. So we're adding October 21st, Saturday the next night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then Tampa, we have the November 3rd for you at the Hard Rock on the 4th we have Orlando and then Fort Lauderdale on the 5th. Come there. Da, da, da. Beep, boop, boop, bop. Beep, boop, boop bop. That's. That's pretty. There's other shows too, but those are the ones that are like, have tickets. Like a lot of them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tickets available, guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So everything else. Go look@my favoritemurder.com live and more dates to come.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are people that tweet a lot, saying, naming cities and saying, why do you hate us? You're going to be so pleasantly surprised is all I'm saying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

These are all 20, 2017 dates that we've announced.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We can't tell you certain things, but we're going to be able to soon. So just have a little faith, have a little hope. I would say the same thing to the girl that tweeted me and said, you guys didn't release a mini this week. And then she mentioned something about Unqualified. Oh, uh huh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That we're unqualified to podcast. Nope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She mentioned something about Anna Faris and I just thought it was such an odd coincidence because we're gonna be on Unqualified with Anna Faris next week. We did a combo hybrid episode, King Duo Trio. A trio? Yeah. Even we all compare. Well, actually a quadro if you include Sam, who is her producer, who was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

On her podcast, another one with Steven.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit, sorry. Steven was there too. He was a five zero.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I was Just hanging out, just kind of touching the leather couches. I mean, that was a nice house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We had a good time at Ana's house and we got to give people advice that we were also unqualified to give.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Anna gave a fucking. Her murder. Which was awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, it was fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So fucking cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's the best. I've honestly always been a fan of honestly Anna. I've honestly. The movie Just Friends. If you haven't seen it with Anna Faris, Ryan Reynolds. I don't know the name of the lead girl.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry, Anna just distracted you so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But if you seen that movie, it's the best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, I've loved her since that movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're on that. That's going to be this coming week. Whatever that is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where are we?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great oldies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great oldies. Also, besides Laura's birthday, Vince's birthday is coming up this week. We got a big birthday week. That's right, Vince's birthday. The name and date of his and location of his birthday party.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, that's a great idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There is a reason I'm saying that, but I'm not going to say it because then everyone will actually know it. But he's having a big joint birthday party with some people and one of the people just puts it up on fucking social media for everyone to know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know the person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, the famous. The famousest of them is like, got it. But last year, Nick Lachey was at his birthday party.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know, right? All right. Should we talk about murder?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yes. My neighbor just texted me and said he's going to fix my fence tomorrow. Hell yes, everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hopefully he doesn't think fence, fix my fence as a wink wink. Like, break George's legs to like so she can never get out again. Oh, I'm sorry. That was horrible. Hi, best friend.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look at me. Come right over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mimi being like, please get me the out of here. This kitten is killing me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, It'd be so funny though. Then she. I put her down in my house and the dogs just come running at.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Straight at her, but then hug her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And hug her close to their chest.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mimi would beat the shit out of them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, she wouldn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Frank would have no eyes left.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He'd be like, well, I've seen the way they throw the doll of me around in the air, which I need to put on fucking Instagram again. But this, that would. Mimi girl. Okay, Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stephen who?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do we have any idea who's first? I tried really hard this time. It's Karen. Okay. Damn it. Well, I mean, again, people are like, do the live shows count? But that was the last episode. Last episode. Karen went last, so Karen goes first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Yeah. I don't know if the live shows count. We're creating our own reality here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think the episodes we post count. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for they're not real time to us. That's the weird part.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How about after live shows, I'm burping. We gotta choose who goes first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure, but only if only on that day. Like, only in that scenario.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which one?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That we. In the scenario where we have just posted a live show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, if we've just posted a live show because we don't know, you know, so much going on. But okay, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, how about we rock, paper, scissors.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right now, basically, that a live show does a reset is what you're saying. That sounds fine to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we do rock, paper, scissors hit. Right? Okay. Rock, paper, scissors hit. That means you get to decide or you go first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just cut. Georgia's paper. I'm scissors. She's paper.

[Georgia Hardstark]

True. That's. That was the I'm Scissors, I'm Paper song.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which means Karen goes first, I'll go first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so that was unnecessary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There is a level of hysteria to this episode that I am enjoying quite a bit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because your dogs didn't get hit by cars?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because my dogs aren't dead. My neighbor's gonna fix my fence. Oh, I didn't even tell you guys about the sunburn that I have. If I had a smaller upper.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Such a random thing like. Oh, and I also didn't tell you what happened. Can you see you're just not pale. Oh, no, that's red. Oh, that's gonna peel my whole back. What happened?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just stood outside for 15 minutes like a fool. Like some sort of normal person with normal skin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't know you were that Irish.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, well, I do it where I'll save it, save it, save it. And then all of a sudden I'm like, I love. I'm gonna go outside and stand in the pool. And then I do it for, like, I'll start reading my phone or something. And then I'm just standing around with no sunblock on for like an extended period of time at, at 1:00', clock, which is the, you know, you can't do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't know that about you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. How I burn. I, I, that's why I don't like all the life anything. That's why I don't like anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like you don't like photosynthesis because.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We live in a summertime city where everybody here has perfect skin. And you're wearing. Right now, you're wearing a terry cloth, like, summer jumper, like you're living the life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I am a nondescript Jew who can tan. I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you have a consistency. Right now I look like Neapolitan ice cream. I am deeply tan. I am frighteningly white.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But here's what I want you to know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a pinkness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here's what you guys gotta remember about people and how they look. And they have this perfect thing. I am so fucking anxious and have so much anxiety around the bathing suit strapped tan lines that I am so insane in the sun that that's why I don't have them. I don't look like, ah, this great glowy tan. It's just no big deal. Like, I will not go outside with fucking straps on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're all different, Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you work, you're saying you really put in the mental and the physical work?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I think nothing looks trashier than having, like. Especially the. Oh, I'm gonna insult a lot of people. You know, the like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, including the one you're looking at, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no. Do you know that's true? No, no, no, no, no. I'm not. I don't care about. Not any of that. I'm doing the triangle bikini tan line, girl, that goes up around your neck. Well, you don't wear clothes. I've never seen a fucking. All I want your skin, aside from your.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If I. All I want to do right now is take my shirt off and show you it's not a farmer's tan anymore. Now I've got. The thing that's happening to me right now is like a lobster tan, but.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That'S not very good. You have a fucking pool in your backyard that you'd just be like, tits out, right? So what the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tits out fits out, fits out, fits.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Out everyone who's looking for that backyard where they can break into. There's also a pool back there and there's a Karen Kilgariff without.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. I wear a full caftan at all times except for the 15 minutes I didn't do it today. And I'm now breaking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know where this is going.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't have time. And yet. All I want to do is talk about this. All I want to do is talk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

About what if I did an episode without murder, we could do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We must be 30 minutes in already.

[Georgia Hardstark]

45.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we are back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're back. This was your old house in Burbank, right? Were you still there?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that's where George was able to, like, climb a fence. It wasn't your fault. I just want to go ahead and, like, it wasn't like Karen was being an irresponsible dog owner where it's like. What do you mean? Of course that happened. It's like this brilliant dog.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. She was climbing the fence like a human being, flipping. When she'd get to the top, she flipped over, fell into a hedge, rolled off and walked up the street.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the all purposefully, like, falling into a hedge wasn't an accident. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She planned it like a weird. Like a. Like a bandit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have you seen the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm sorry, but the only reason we know that is because my neighbor Rick was standing in the driveway next to that bush for the, like, third time she did it. And he witnessed the whole thing. Cause I'd already called him. He was a contractor, Right. I'd already called him and said, all my fences are broken. I don't know what's happening. Like, I'm becoming the bane of this neighborhood.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. You're the bad owner. And it's like, you're not a bad owner. You just have a really smart dog.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Who goes up to Priscilla's Cafe and gets people to pet her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Priscilla's was up on the corner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She would walk to the cafe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She'd walk up to the cafe and then be like, walking around and people like, oh, my God, this dog. And then it got posted on fucking Facebook.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're so lucky that you got her back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I would have taken her home immediately and been like, my dog.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. And like, oh, sorry, there's no tags. She had tags. Of course she had her tags on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And she chipped.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Clearly, she was chipped completely. But the third time she did it, she got brought to the pound.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that's a fucking lesson. It's not a bunch of people giving you their turkey from their sandwiches at Priscillas. It's fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that's like. And when I went to pick her up, she was in the kennel, like, with the panicked eyes. And I was like, you did this to yourself. You did this to yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You wanna see the heartwarming videos of the dog being so happy to see the owner and not the like, well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, her tail was wagging, but her eyes were gigantic. Or I'm just like, yeah, I hope this is enough trauma for you to stop doing this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like when you're my cat, Mo is constantly trying to get out, and I'm like, you will get eaten by a coyote immediately. It's not a prize.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not a big fucking surprise, like, world grave that you're missing out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's not a bunch of herring waiting for you at the end of the driveway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But you know where there is dry in your fucking cat food cupboard. Like, literal dried herring, where mommy gives it to you, but you gotta leave. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And then I love that the brain hemorrhage conversation that we were. This is like, just. This is classic MFM of like, tell us what we said wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so we had just referred casually to a brain hemorrhage. And then Kara Klink's brother was like, hey, this is how that's wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's the difference between a brain hemorrhage and a brain aneurysm?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so Kara Klink actually has like, four, like, five or six siblings. And they all do something really interesting. I've met a handful of them, and they're all lovely. And so, yeah, what if I was a brain surgeon and corrected us? And then it's so funny. Cause it was 2017. We didn't even have a network yet. And now you guys know Kara Klink is one of the hosts of that's Messed up, an SVU podcast on the exactly right network.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's almost like it's legit going through these. Whereas, like, these are our real friends. Yeah, we're referencing. I'm socially referencing Bridger. You're socially referencing Kara Klang.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And actually, she and I were talking the other day about how Kara Kling was at the Halloween party we met at, and she and her husband Jared and our friend Crystal were supposed to be three blind mice together. But Crystal got social anxiety and didn't show up. So it was just Jared and Kara being two blind mice the whole time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also, what if you had spent your time talking to Crystal and we never met?

[Georgia Hardstark]

See, if Crystal had been there, she and I would have been awkward and weird in a corner together, because we are. If she didn't come, then I was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, I love her. She is the best. She's such a fun person to talk to and hang out with. But I bet you that was. You were slightly unbalanced because you didn't have your party posse.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And she and I, I don't think we knew each other that well yet either. So it wasn't like I would have texted, like, bitch, you fucking better come. Like, you can't leave me alone here. Which I do now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, also, Kara Klink was one of the three people that I told my horrible story to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this is all very ground zero.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For us, for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love it. That's what you fucking find out on rewind with Karen and Georgia. All right, well, should we get into your. Is this the story where he has like a costume on and it's terrible? Oh, God, this one fucking scares the shit out of me. Okay, let's get into Karen's story about Peter Curtin, the vampire of Dusseldorf. Well, the holidays have come and gone once again. But if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift. Well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea. You get it now, you call it.

[Tony Robbins]

An early present for next year.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What do you have to lose? Give it a [e-mail] Switch limited time, 50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required. $45 for three months, $90 for six month or 180 for 12 month plan taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy. See Terms.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you know that parents rank teaching financial literacy as the toughest life skill?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's where Greenlight comes in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The debit card and money app made.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For families with Greenlight. You can send money to kids quickly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Set up chores automate allowance and track spending with real time notifications. Kids learn how to earn, save and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Spend responsibly while parents have peace of mind knowing smart money habits are being.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Built with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight risk free [e-mail] iheartra that's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Greenlight.Com iheart hey, everybody, it's Tony Robbins.

[Tony Robbins]

Look, the time is here. It's 2026, and everybody talks about having a new year and a new life. But what do most people do? They create a few resolutions and in the end, they don't really do anything. If you want this to be the best year you've ever had in your life, it's going to take a new tool, a new strategy, a new momentum, and maybe a new community of people to hang out with. So come join me for the Time to Rise Summit. I do it only once a year. Year. It's coming up January 29th through the 31st. There's absolutely no charge for it, but it'll be an experience I promise you, you will not forget. It'll give you Momentum, a plan and a strategy to make 2026 the best ever. If you're up for that, you're hungry for more, come join me. There's no cost for it whatsoever. Just go to time to rise summit dot com. Time to riseummit dot com. I'll see you there. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The world is canceled. We do. That's really. How long is that? 15 minutes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we're going to now put this on this. You know how you can do it? 1.5 speed or 2 speed?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Me? Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like all podcasts, we're going to talk like that. So if you put it on times two, it's going to be like times ten.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This week I'm doing Peter Curtin, the vampire of Dusseldorf.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you heard of him?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know him? I know. Don't. I don't. It's one of those things that you bookmark a million times to maybe do, and then you don't do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's another guy that's German that was called, like the Werewolf of something that I thought this guy was. And so I thought it was gonna be like this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

16.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm doing 1600s. You know that guy?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You are. What if I was?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, I'm not. Mind blowing. But then when I looked this up. This guy is so fucked. He is like Albert Fish level fuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it was exciting. I mostly took this. Most of the Information is from biography.com, which is such a good. When you get one of those articles, they do it. Here's the thing. When you research these stories, you know who's good. Every victim is like, in one article, she's 10 years old. In another one, she's 13. In another one, she's 9. And it literally one time, she's 17. The times change, the dates change, the ages change. You get on biography, biography.com and you're like, this is golden.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Biography.com. vanity Fair, Washington Post.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

New York Times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Lock and load.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Lock and lock and load dot com. Guns and ammo dot com. And you are. You have all the details.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're good to go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Martha Stewart Living, she knows all the good killer info.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, she does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Peter curtain, born in 1883. We're going all the way back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You were like, I'm not doing that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Immediately, Nope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right as I started doing that voice, my sunburn flared and I was like, no voices.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if your sunburn is like your psyche? That's like, stop it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stop it, Karen. Stop. My sunburn is my dad's voice from my childhood going, hey, show off time's over. All my dad did my whole childhood.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jessie popped your dad Is Jesse.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is he really.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Show off time's over.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Does he say stuff like that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That sounds like our friend Jesse Poppins.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, hey. That and you're not better than me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You think you're better than me?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You think you're better than me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You think you're better than me?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, okay, okay. Born in 1883, Peter was the eldest of 13 children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Both parents severe alcoholics.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't do that either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please don't do it. Father, a brutal sadist who would beat his wife, beat the children, viciously molested his daughters, and would sometimes gather the children and make them watch him have sex with their mother. He was eventually arrested for raping his daughter multiple times. So terrible, terrible kickoff for Peter Kirby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Very bad childhood. All bad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In 1902, when he was nine years old, he befriended a dog catcher who lived in the same apartment building as him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Super chill, dude. Right? People who catch dogs and kill them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Actually, this man would keep the dogs and torture them and he taught Peter all about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is this a weird, like, themed episode for you about dog catchers?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is called Dog Anxiety by Karen Kilgariff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is why I am surrounded by cats right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, exactly. So, okay, so Peter having a terrible parent and then also his father went off to jail. So he basically bonded with the worst person he could ever be around. So terrible childhood, terrible outside influence. When he was 11 years old, he told the police that he was playing on a raft with a schoolmate and he pushed the boy into the water because he knew the boy couldn't swim.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when another schoolmate saw this happen, the second boy jumped into the water to save the first boy. And Peter Curtin leaned down and pushed both their heads underwater and drowned them both. And the police, when the police came upon it, they ruled it an accidental drowning.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My mouth is. I'm not just being quiet because I'm not a quiet person. I'm only quiet when I'm shocked. It's a jar that's fucked up. The jar is a jar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And nine year. No, sorry. 11 years old. It's so. It's like the age of my niece. It's so creepily young.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then when he became an adolescent, his fetish for animal cruelty developed into full on bestiality. Thanks to the old dog catcher, he began to have sex with barnyard animals. And he then developed or progressed into killing the animals while he was fucking them. No, no, no, we don't have to live there for very long. Let's move on. He, of course, was always running away from home to get away from his father's violence and sadism. But then he always ended up having to come back. When he was 16, on his way out of town one time, when running away, he met a woman. He lured her into the local park where he raped her and strangled her. Okay, so in 1913, at the age of 20, he's out on his own. He starts robbing, you know, he's doing a lot of petty crimes, I guess he starts breaking into taverns because there's a business on the downstairs, then there's living quarters on the upstairs. So on May 25, 1913, he breaks into an establishment that's owned by the Klein family. So as the parents worked downstairs, Peter Curtin snuck into their living quarters upstairs, found 10 year old Christine Klein asleep in her bed, raped her, strangled her, slit her throat, then sat there and watched her bleed out. The next morning, he returned to the scene of the crime. He went to the pub across the street and he bought a drink and sat amongst the locals and listened to them as they talked about what happened and speculated about who did it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, how old was he at this point?

[Karen Kilgariff]

20.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And at the time, an uncle in the Klein family and the father who owned the pub had been fighting and the uncle had threatened his brother and said, like, I'm gonna do something that you're gonna regret. So for a little while, everybody thought the uncle did it. He actually eventually was let off, but he was actually a main suspect in this murder. Two months later, he broke into another tavern and this time three sisters were sleeping in their beds. He went to the girl in the center bed, she was 17 year old Gertrude Franken. And he strangled her while she slept. He killed her and then snuck back out. Neither of her sisters woke up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What a like, specifically, specifically evil thing to do. Horrible to be like, I'm letting them wake up to this. On purpose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, on purpose. No, he is a deranged mind. It's all the worst things combined because clearly he already was a sociopath. But then he had the worst childhood a human being could possibly have, the worst family a human being could possibly have, the worst outside influence. Like it just came at him from every direction. In 1913, he was arrested for arson. So we're, he's all about that McDonald triad, they call it of, of hurting animals arson.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He probably was a Bedwetter. I saw that word today, too, when I was looking something up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's. I think that's the person that made it up. McDonald's. The McDonald's triad. Two cheeseburgers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Killing animals. Special sauce, Wetting the bed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Light all that shit on fire.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then light it all on fire with a second wet your bed. Jesus Christ.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. With each successive sentence, Peter Curtin's rage. This is a direct quote from the Biography Channel page. As I'm reading this, I'm like, this is hard to read. Oh, because it's a cut and paste. Peter Curtin's rage against society and his capacity for depravity increased. So when he'd go to jail, he gets sent to solitary confinement, which I'm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure is chill as fuck, right? Well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, when he was there, he was able to very deeply fantasize very vividly about the brutal sex acts that he enjoyed. And so then he ended up. He would break prison rules intentionally so that he would get the longest sentence in solitary confinement because he liked it so much. It's disgusting. Okay. He was called up for military service at the start of World War I, but he deserted and he was jailed. He remained in prison until 1921, which was his longest sentence to date. And when he got out of prison, he married an older woman, a sex worker who he knew, who had served time for killing her fiance. Her name was Augusta. They were a great pair. They found real love. He became a molder. I think that. So he maybe shaped crown moldings, places, caster plaster.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Caster plaster.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They lived in relative normalcy for four years, and then they moved back to Dussel. And right around that time, rapes began being reported all over the city.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so now he's going into. We're in 1929 now, February 3rd, he meets a woman named Maria Coon. He ends up stabbing her 24 times with a pair of scissors. So this. Now he starts carrying a pair of scissors around with him at all times. He is not an organized killer, like I think they're saying. Like, he's an impulse killer, but he. So he. Like, he knows who he wants to kill, and he plans that a little bit beforehand, but he doesn't plan anything else.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like, there it is, and goes for it. But he knows what he's looking for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he's got his scissors in his pocket. Cause he's like, wants to be ready. Sure. Okay, so February 9th, 1929, five days after attacking Maria Coon, he strangles nine year old Rosa Olager stabs her all day over her entire body. He leaves, then returns to the body hours later and sets it on fire. Monster. On February 13, he stabs 45 year old mechanic Rudolph Shear 20 times with his scissors. He returns to the scene of the CR again and this time speaks to detectives about what happened.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The German press obviously is covering all of this, right? And at one point they find out from police that the police are theorizing that this attacker is drinking the blood of his victims. And so that's when the German press dubs him the Vampire of Dusseldorf. Now, at one point, right around this time, a learning disabled man named Stausberg admitted to all of the Vampire killings. So he's committed to an asylum and the police have convinced themselves that the case is solved. Six months after that, on August 11, he asks a woman named Maria Hahn to a date at a pub. He gets her alone, rapes her, strangles her, stabs her to death, buries her body in a cornfield. He visits the body.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is new for him, right? Burying body.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause he's almost like, oh, I got away with this so I'm gonna be different about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. He's, it's escalating and he's like getting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Creative because someone got caught for his shit. Maybe it's almost smart that he, you know what I mean? Like, it almost shows that, how, how smart he was, right? Where it's like you didn't keep doing the same thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You were like he changed it up and he does it, he does it again, the same thing again. Later he, he buries the body in the cornfield, goes and visits it, visits it a bunch of times, and eventually sends an anonymous letter to the police revealing her burial spot. So three days later, after he murders Maria Hahn, on October 24, 1929, he's in a suburb of Germany. Two foster sisters are attending a fair together. 14 year old Louisa Lenson and 5 year old Gertrude Honecker. And Peter Curtin sees them there by themselves. So he chats with them, he charms them, he makes friends with them. At one point, he sends Louisa off for cigarettes, then leads 5 year old Gertrude into the bushes, strangles her and slits her throat. So the next day he attacks another woman, her name's Gertrude Schultz. She survives the attack and she gives the police a description of her attacker. She says he's a pleasant looking man in his 40s. So now after all of these attacks, the entire city of Dusseldorf is in a panic. In September of 1920, 9. He rapes a house servant named Ida Router and then beats her to death with a hammer and leaves her body next to a river. So he's changing his MO again. The next month, on October 12, he meets another servant girl, her name was Elizabeth Doriere, and he asks her out. They walk along a river and he hits her in the head with a hammer. He rapes her, beats her to death with the hammer and leaves her body there by the river. A few days later, he attacks two more people with his hammer, but they survive. So basically now he's causing mass hysteria in Dusseldorf. The press is going crazy and he loves it. He's eating it up. On November 9, 1929, he sent a newspaper, a hand drawn map that detailed the position of the body that he left. His most recent victim, a five year old girl named Gertrude Alberman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How many Gertrudes are there at this point?

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's three. I mean, I think there's more. There's three or four because it's Germany in the 30s and 20s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He stabbed this 5 year old 35 times and then hit her under some rubble. And then after he did that, he waited around, an angry mob formed when they found out that another little girl had been murdered and he joined the mob and protested along with them. So it's that to me that like move right there is what I'm in it for because it feels like if you took pictures of every crime scene of the people that were lined up, you could see the people who were respons, like totally that thing of serial killers where they need to go back and they have to like revisit and they mess with the cops and all that stuff because they enjoy it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're smart. Harder. Yeah, and they are smart in a way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In a way, yeah, because they're psychopaths.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And our brains would never think that way because we could never imagine these things happening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, knowing these things, that thing that we learned where it's like they don't feel anxiety so they don't get nervous and we're always measuring other people against how we feel.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Looks nervous over there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Where it's like, no, they wouldn't be nervous. They would walk right up to you and be like, I've seen. So I would like to report something that I've seen scene and it's so dark.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. Can I tell you? Yeah, I'll tell you later.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, tell me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I was in my murder, I was reading this thing and they had like, in one of the Articles. It was like, here's a riddle to see if someone's a psychopath or not. If they understand that, if they can get this riddle and fix it, then they're a psychopath or some. Or a sociopath or whatever the. And you want to hear it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. A woman goes to her sister's funeral. Okay. Heard this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Woman goes to her sister's funeral. At the funeral, she meets a man, and she falls in love with him. But she loses track of him and he leaves. And she doesn't know who he is. She doesn't know his name. Couple weeks later, she kills that woman, kills her brother. Why did she kill her brother?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her brother.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Woman goes to her sister's funeral, meets a man, falls madly in love with him, doesn't know who he is. He leaves. A couple weeks later, she kills her brother. Why?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it's her father.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, that's always the answer to what they. I know. That's what I thought, too. And this means they're not associated. So she can see the man again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa, Whoa. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause she's like, well, if he came to my sister's funeral, he knows us. I really want to see him again. I'll kill my brother and see that. Like, so the person who would be able to fix that. Steven now just. Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Steven. It's like, Steven, was that your answer, sir?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen? No. Steven's an extra.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not weeping on the floor because he.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Didn'T get it until late. I'm not making it easy. You're just a sweet baby angel. So slow. No, you're not slow. You're not a fuck. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's crazy. It's like the yawning trick. Or if you yawn and someone doesn't yawn, catch your yawn.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, but let's just be careful with this trick, because then. But imagine if you're standing there and then someone, like, turns to you with, like, their reptile eyes and goes like, oh. Because he'd want to see her again. Then you're like, oh, I'm in the elevator with this person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it's the same way when. Like when. When we did. When I. I think one of us told the whole thing of, like, if you yawn and the person doesn't catch your yawn, it's. Cause they have no empathy. And like, we. And that was like in episode 20. Whatever. And we still get people. Like, my cat didn't just yawn right now.

[Tony Robbins]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And like. And I was. At the time, I was like, vince, didn't yawn when I yawn.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So like it's all. Yeah, what's the word? Party trick. However, it's a fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fun times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a fun time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a good way to pass the time. So also if you're just really quick, if you are, and it probably won't count now, but if you're, if you're going through back catalog and you're say a full year behind, you can hold those corrections, you can just keep those to yourself because you can. We rest. We assure you we've been correct.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We've seen. Dear Zachary, everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every once in a while the people just tweet me trophy and I'll be like, we fucking know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's not even from 10 episodes ago.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, we've done it. I think we've done it like 10 times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whatever. Okay, listen, look, listen, look and listen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, listen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry. Go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so the angry mob is where I end.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Angry mob.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But now here's the thing. So the police noticed this time that the handwriting that was in the letter, the woman that was buried at the cornfield, I believe Maria was her name, it matches the map that someone, this anonymous person sent of five year old Gertrude's burial site. And so the cops are like, hold on a second. These, like they're putting it all together. So finally, in 1931, knowing the police were close to catching him, Peter Curtin confesses his entire murder spree to his wife Augusta.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's like cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, damn. And oh my God. He tells her, you need to turn me in and you can get a reward. Like, let's do this so that you're taken care of so that my bad behavior doesn't fuck you over. Which is super weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Such a weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like he really loved his wife and was stayed loyal to her. And I mean, not really because he was doing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I know what you mean. But it's also like that he had a conscience or he cared conscience enough to like tell her. Yeah, and most guys who like make out with someone at a party and she'd have on their whatever, don't tell. He was like, listen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, hey, Augusta, I'm a real wild card. Guess what? Hey, you're not going to believe what I'm about to tell you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ever heard of ten girls named Gertrude? Killed them all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Damn. That was me. You know how everyone's just screaming at the top of their lungs in the street all day and every day it's kissing me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so once he was under arrest, he provides an astonishingly detailed account of his string of crimes to Professor Carl Burke, who was a distinguished psychologist who later published a confession in a book called the Sadist. Curtin claimed 79 individual acts of crime. In all, he went to great lengths to convince the authorities of his guilt. His memory was nearly photographic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So his recollection of each offense provided him with great pleasure. And in his trial, which started on April 13, 1931 in Dusseldorf, he was brought up on nine charges of murder, seven attempted murder. He initially retracted his extensive confession, claiming that he'd only said that to ensure his wife's financial security. But then there was such an overwhelming amount of evidence that he eventually just pled guilty. It took the jury 90 minutes to return a verdict of guilty on all counts. He received nine death sentences, and he was executed by guillotine on July 2, 1931, in Cologne. And during his trial, I think this is very interesting. He was made to sit in a cage in the courtroom so that the family members of the victims didn't attack and kill him. Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Damn.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Peter Curtin, the vampire of Dusseldorf and the monster of Dusseldorf.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was fucking good, Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thanks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Considering we're probably never gonna go to Dusseldorf, Germany too. I'm glad you did it on the podcast and not at a live show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. You know, you never know, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All these Germans are like. Ughting tune, baby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Okay, we're back. I remember seeing the photo that belongs to this story of his costume, his get up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then having nightmares for the rest of my life about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so much scarier than. It's like Leatherface, kind of. It's very.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And the fact that it's like 1913.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So we're not talking about the 60s. We're not talking about the horrible 70s. It's just like this very early, like. Oh, no, it reminds me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not a copycat. Like, this guy is actually that fucking psychotic on his own. He comes up with his own fucking ways to be psychotic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. He is a true original.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I was gonna say it reminds me of the child murderer from Guernsey that. Remember, he had this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think that's what I was thinking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of with the spikes. Yeah, he had the spikes in the mask. Yeah, yeah, that's that guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But. But very similar vibe. Where it's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Similar vibe. Yeah, it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's old fashioned. And we all like to think that people way back when were all like, Making bread together and getting along.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's like know that this thing, inhumanity has been inhumanity for a very long time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, actually the humane part is a really short part of humanity actually. Yeah, it's been inhumane a lot longer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The civilized thing is literally civilization.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very new.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Very new.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very new.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cool. Any updates? I'm guessing not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

None for this. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Speaking of fucked up civilization. Oh yeah, here's another classic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Now we're going to speed ahead to where it's also not civilized. This is Georgia's story about Geoffrey McMahon. Donald.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, the holidays have come and gone once again. But if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift, well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea. You get it now, you call it.

[Tony Robbins]

An early present for next year.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What do you have to lose? Give it a [e-mail] Switch limited time, 50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Per month when network is busy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

See terms.

[Tony Robbins]

Hey everybody, it's Tony Robbins. Look, the time is here. It's 2026 and everybody talks about having a new year and a new life. But what do most people do? They create a few resolutions and in the end they don't really do anything. If you want this to be the best year you've ever had in your life, it's going to take a new tool, a new strategy, a new momentum, and maybe a new community of people to hang with. Out. Out with. So come join me for the Time to Rise Summit. I do it only once a year. It's coming up January 29th through the 31st. There's absolutely no charge for it, but it'll be an experience I promise you you will not forget. It'll give you momentum, a plan and a strategy to make 2026 the best ever. If you're up for that, you're hungry for more, come join me. There's no cost for it whatsoever. Just go to time to rise summit.com time to risumit.com I'll see you then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Back pain and stiffness made mornings rough. Pain made it tough to sleep Until I started Cosentyx.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cosentyx Secukinumab is the number one prescribed treatment for adults that targets IL17A, a molecule that may play a role in inflammation that contributes to Ankylosing spondyloarthritis or non radiographic axial spondyloarthritis. Two types of inflammation inflammatory arthritis of the spine. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx. Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections. Some were fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough had a vaccine or plan to. Or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions actions may occur. Learn more at 1844 cosentix or cosentix.com Ask your doctor about Cosentix. I got real relief with Cosentix. All right, I'm just going to get started on this one. Even though I have some thoughts on it. But I think it's best to just like. Let's get into this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You ready for the murder of the family. Family of Jeffrey McDonald.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know this one?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the one I thought the other one was. Yes, this is the one I thought the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The doctor. Yeah. Is this guy doctor too Sam Shepard?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is not Sam Shepard's family, but yes, this guy is a. Yes, yes, yes, they're very similar. They're very similar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, awesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I'm going to just get into this and then. Because this is. All right. Jeffrey McDonald. He's in high school. He's voted most popular and most likely to succeed. He's senior class president, captain of the fucking football team. Hot, like, well liked, popular dude in the made for TV movie Fatal Vision. Karen. He is played by a young Gary Cole.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yes, Gary Cole, right. Went on to those TPS reports by Friday. Remember Office Space?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Tony Robbins]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm gonna have to go ahead and have you come in on Saturday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is what I was gonna ask you what he was from. Cause I didn't know and I knew you'd know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mostly Office space.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean that's his greatest role of all time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Definitely. Except for Fatal Vision.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for Fatal Vision where he plays.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A young Jeffrey McDonald. After high school he gets a scholarship to fucking Princeton. And while he's there he's so jealous you think he's fucking better than us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, what do you know stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gets a scholarship to Princeton and then while he's there, he marries his high school sweetheart, Colette Steven. She is played by Wendy Shaw in Fatal Vision.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you watched Fatal Vision is what you're telling me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but I also knew that you would have questions and I would need. And I just like, also don't ever know who's going to strike your fancy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

True. So you just want to be ready.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So I have a couple more characters. Love it. All right. After high school, Brinson marries Colette Stevenson. He goes to medical school and then he joins the Army. He becomes a Green Beret captain, which is a big deal, and a doctor in the Army. So by 26 years old, the couple, along with their two daughters, Kimberly, age 5, and Kristen, age 2, moved to the prestigious Fort Bragg, North Carolina, which is an army base, but it's also open to the public, which I didn't know that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's very famous army base, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. 26 years old and you've done all this stuff. You must be a sociopath. No. All right, so here is his story. I'm going to start with his story. It's a cold, rainy night on February 16, 1970. They are in their ground floor apartment. Four and a half month old pregnant Colette and two year old Kristen are asleep in the master bedroom. And Kimberly is asleep in her room. She's five. Jeffrey goes to try to go to bed and he finds that Kristen had wet his side of the bed bed in the master bedroom. So he brings her back to her own bed and he goes to sleep on the couch because he doesn't want to disturb everyone and make the bed again. All right, so he's asleep on the couch and then he's awoken while he's on the couch by Colette shouting, jeff, why are they doing this to me? And Kimberly screaming, daddy, Daddy, Daddy. He opens his eyes on the couch and sees four figures standing over him. A black man in a fatigue jack jacket with sergeant stripes on the sleeve, two white men and a woman wearing a floppy hat over stringy blonde hair. She's holding a flickering candle in front of her face and is chanting, Acid is groovy. Kill the pigs. Jeffrey begins to rise and the black man brings a club crashing down on his head. A second later, McDonald feels a sharp pain on the right side of his chest and he looks down and he sees an ice pick blade that had been stabbed into him. He tries to wrestle the guys and despite the fact that he's a Green Beret, which one of their things is to be trained in clandestine guerrilla force, they're still able to fight him and pull his pajama top over his head and onto his Wrist. So he's got his arms up with the pajama top. He's holding his wrists together and he's trying to fend them off, but they keep trying to stab him. And then the black man keeps clubbing him. And finally he falls unconscious at the steps of the hallway that lead to the bedrooms. So he had been overpowered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In this vicious struggle with hippies. With drug crazed hippies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Acid heads.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Acid head. Kill the pigs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kill the pigs. Acid heads.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As they yell. As they are known to yell. When he comes to Karen, he's on the stairs. He gets up and stumbles to the master bedroom and finds Colette sprawled on the floor with the handle of the knife sticking out of her chest. He pulls the knife away and he throws it aside and he covers her body with his pajama top that he had removed from his wrist at that point and tries to give her mouth to mouth. What a good guy, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, go ahead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, yeah, you're right. You're correct.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That. How gross. I mean, if somebody's been saying stabbed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To give him mouth to mouth. Yeah, that's not going to work. Is that what you're thinking?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, and I just don't think most people do that. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, he's a surgeon, too. No, he should know that. That wouldn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That wouldn't help work. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Colette has been struck at least six times in the head with a blunt object. One of them causes a fracture to her skull. She had nine deep knife wounds at the front of her neck, seven deep knife wounds to her chest, and 21 puncture wounds to her chest area. Her chest is also bruised from what looked like an object that had been thrust into her chest. On the headboard of the master bedroom. Someone had to use one of their fingers to write the word pig in her blood. McDonald. Jeffrey McDonald. I kind of hate saying their last name instead of their first name because it makes, you know, like saying Jeffrey makes it so much more personal. Do you know what I mean? Like in all of these murder stories we do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Jeffrey pulls the knife out, puts it to the side, and then tries to get from mouth to mouth in her bedroom. Kristen, who was two years old, she has 22 gaping knife wounds to her upper back, four wounds to her chest and one to her neck. There's 15 shallow puncture wounds found in her chest as well as a multiple cuts on both of her hands. Like she's trying to defend herself. I know this is fucked up. In her bed. Kimberly had been struck at least three times in the head with the blunt object, and her skull showed multiple fractures. Steven looks like he's gonna pass the fuck out right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It just doesn't make sense. It's like, why would any hippies or people any otherwise. Of all the things you wanna do, like you wanna rob people, you wanna murder. What? And I mean, I just got done talking about the vampire of Dusseldorf who did exactly this. But it's a rare person who can stab a baby multiple times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the breaking and entering thing, like not being a sadistic child killer, not being a rapist or a pedophile. And these things just happen in the house. Seems so weird. And this is why I'm starting with. So I just wanted to start, which is, this is a great place to say, like, this is the story he told. All right, so, like, this story is so fucked up and insane, and I've heard it so many times. And when I finally decided to do it, I'm not doing it in a way that's like, here are the facts and this is what happened. Which are incredible and interesting and crazy. And there's a great episode of Generation Y where they cover this case and it's point by point and it's really good. And they're coming from the same place that I am, which is that he clearly fucking did it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So here's his story. I'm not gonna get into all all the insane facts of the trials that happen. I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna do his story. What happened then? What is most likely the real story? Okay, so this is why I'm saying it so dramatically, which I normally don't do. This is such a fucking bullshit, made up story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah, I can tell with your. There's a hint of sarcasm, right? And then there's some drama in it that I know that you hate this person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. And what's essentially, yeah, I'm so bad at, I can't lie. If I hate you, you'll fucking know. What's so incredible about this is that there's still an argument about whether or not he did it. Which I think when I get done with what really happened, you won't fucking believe it. So Kimberly's in bed, eight to 10 deep. Niphones are found on the right side of her neck. So Colette, Kimberly and Kristen are all dead. Then once he wakes up, finds them dead, Jeffrey calls the operator and says, heads, we've been stabbed. People are dying. People are dying. Yeah. Not my wife and my children. We've all been stabbed. People are dying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some people are dying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It is so fascinating when they break that stuff down of like all those micro, you know, micro expression people that know the word. And we've talked about that in other things, definitely, where, when you use certain words and what it means, the word.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Choice, like even just the breakdown of, you know, Patsy ran or Patsy Ramsey's 911 call about JonBenet and the. The ransom letter, quote unquote, of John for JonBenet. Fascinating. And this is another one of those. There, There is a breakdown of his call as well as when he is interrogated later of every single thing he says. And it's fucking incredible. And I wish I could have included the whole thing, but it would have been three episodes. So I'm not. Okay, but let's just do it right now, okay?

[Tony Robbins]

Let's just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what? Let's just go for it. When they arrive, they find the sole survivor, Jeffrey MacDonald, lying with his arm around Colette in the master bedroom, unconscious. So, like, he went and called, then he fucking positioned himself next to his wife.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He had sustained bruising over his eye, a superficial stab wound in the arm, and on his abdomen in the form of an upside down vision V. Several small puncture wounds were present on the upper left chest. None of his wounds required suturing. A neat and clean stab wound was located between two ribs on the right side of his chest and resulted in a collapsed lung. Oh, right. Which is interesting. As they were gurneying him out, he whispers to the medics, four of them, she kept saying, acid is groovy. Kill the pig. Like, he tells them that dramatically. Right? All right. So then I wrote now reality. So by the time the sun had risen the next day, the army's Criminal Investigation Division. Division cid, which we're calling it now, they didn't even believe Jeffrey's story. Aside from his minor injuries, there was no sign of an ice pick puncture on him, despite the fact that he said he had been stabbed by an ice pick. Also, there's just a single fiber from his RIP pajamas. A single fiber was found in the living room where the struggle had ensued. That's all they found, was a single, like, strand of his pajamas from ripping. However, in the bedrooms, there were dozens of his pajama fibers, including several found beneath Colette, others under Kimberly's sheets in her bedroom, and two more in Kristin's room. One lodged under her fingernail.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In his pajamas, which he had seen, said he had stumbled into Colette's the wife's room. Taken his pajamas off and covered her with it so he wouldn't even had it when he went into the kids room.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He claims he performed CPR on all three of them, but none of their mouths were open and his daughters were tucked into bed and lying on their sides. And he's a fucking surgeon, so he would know that that's not how you give cpr. Yeah, he originally claimed he didn't wash up before making the call to the police, but there's no blood on the phone he used to make the call, but there was blood in the sink drain. Oh, then the CID found a blood smudged brand new issue of Esquire magazine in the living room. So an article in the Esquire magazine details the drug crazed hippies who had murdered Sharon Tate just seven months before that. According to investigators, it contained. The article contained 18 similarities to the murders of Colette and the girls, including a blonde candle carrying hippie woman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, it's funny, I was thinking Patty Hearst because there's that famous picture when Patty Hearst with her hat on. Did she wear a hat into the bank? I can't remember.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just see her with like a pull down low hat. But she had a. But she did have a wig on it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, so she had like. But I guess it wasn't blonde hair, but there was a black man with an army jacket.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God, Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what I was thinking, thinking of. But I mean it's all the same thing where it's like, But I don't. That was 1970. Or was it before or after?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe he's psychic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, it's like, clearly it's just like these three things have been in the media and they were.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was just like, I drive around and there's a hippie. There's a, like, yeah, it's the thing of like. And I read a lot about Reddit things where it were like, the acid is groovy. Sure, that's something we said like in a, you know, acid is so groovy. We said groovy. Kill the pigs was a totally different sect of people. Those were the crazy left wing, you know, fuck the police. People who weren't the same as the hippies. So it's something that like a straight laced military man would be like, here's what hippies say. Here's what drug crazed hippies say.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Especially someone that's reading up on the Manson murders because death to the pigs or whatever, that thing was a part of it too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someone said someone in. When they were talking about that in the Reddit article, they were like, it's like if today someone were trying to blame hipsters on something and said. They kept saying, saying the first album was better. The first album was the best. And it's like nobody fucking really says that. That's what you think. We say it's just this, like, insanity, which I really love, because I hadn't even thought about that. Okay. They found that the word pig that was written in blood on the headstand had been written and using a surgical glove, which were found in the house. And the weapons that all come from inside the house. And then the weapons were thrown in a bush right outside the house. Almost like someone opened the back door and like, if there were four people at least who were committing something, they'd all run out and put their. Put their fucking weapons under the same bush.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, no, pre. Agreed. Bush before they went in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Put it down and walk away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guys, this is the. This is weapon Bush, please.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Weapon Bush, Steven. That's the name of the episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is our new.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what I'm gonna call. Okay. Going on under a Bush and the. Okay, so howmever. Listen, there's always a. However, you know, got to gotta have a howmever. Someone made a shirt that just says hellmever on it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It makes me so happy. So of course my name is not of course this. Okay, cut that out, Steve. No, don't cut that out. Many mistakes were made during the investigation. Investigation from failing to seal off the crime scene. So 26 people trampled through it before it was finally secured, which is a kind of a normal thing in the 70s, I feel like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, that happened all the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they didn't know it was happening. They showed up, it's pouring rain. They run in, they see bodies. They have to take one out. It's. There's going to be a lot of people coming through. Yes, but the fucking ambulance driver stole Jeffrey McDonald's wallet from his desk.

[Tony Robbins]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. No, yoink. Yoinked it right off the fucking desk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, is this an ambulance driver? Not on the. On the army base?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think so. I think they just. I don't know if there was an army base, but there's a hospital.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know who it was, but bold move. Ambulance driver walking with a gurney. Zoink. You know what I mean? That guy had a problem, like, being fired from his job, hopefully. And like, the next day, the garbage man, they were like yeah, go ahead and take the trash away. Oh, the trash out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, just put a hold on that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nope. They also allowed fire.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Would have never made that mistake. Starring Mark Harmon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whenever I think of Mark Harmon, I think it's the. What's the Olympic diver or what's the guy from Star Wars?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Greg Louganis. The one who hit his head.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. What's the guy from Star Wars? His name?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Luke.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, his father. What's his father? No, what's Luke's name in real life?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mark Hamill.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dammit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's Hammond.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I always think it's Mark Harmon. I think it's him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, oh, oh. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's similar. They're similar. There are white guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But this is why I tell you the names of people who are playing. That's right. And ask you to fill in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You run it all by me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No idea. Beep boop. Trash McDonald home. Oh, they. 40 cents. 40 sets of fingerprints just were allowed to be destroyed. And a bloody footprint was lost in the process of remaining. Moving it, which I just think of some guy like slipping like it's a banana peel, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he's. He's trying to take a footprint print and then he's like what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someone knocks into him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get those marbles out of here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mr. Bean. It's just Mr. Bean. Get those marbles out of me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like Mr. Bean will never process a crime scene again. No, we're not making that mistake again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Never again. Sometimes I'm so busy talking that I don't hear the funny thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Believe me, after that's all I do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Still, the military, they formally charge Jeffrey McDonald with the murder on with the murders on May 1, 1970. But at this point, an 18 year old drug addict hippie in town known to police named Helena Stokely. She's known to wear, get this, a floppy hat, a blonde wig and like the same kind of look. Drug addiction hippie. She confesses that herself and various people around town did the crime. So she says, oh, I. I was really high on mescaline and acid that night. I think we were there. I remember these things from it. Here's three accomplices that I think was there with me. One of them turned out to be in jail while this was happening. But she really throws a wrench in the whole thing. The wig and the floppy hat. It hides the 70s, you know who else owns that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Colette, the one got murdered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So like there's just no. It just fucks this investigation up forever. Right, Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I wonder if that was Intentional?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, he made up a story and he got really fucking lucky. That's what I think happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Think.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he made up a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or. Or could he have made up a story and then given a wig and a hat to a person in town that would have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, considering he was a doctor and he was also, like, saw civilians, he might have already been aware of her at some point. Oh, yeah, she came in with someone who knows, but from what I can tell, she's a really unhealthy woman. A girl. Drug addict, mentally ill. Was she in her teens? She was 18. Really not doing well. And so she kind of seemed like someone who wanted. Who needed and wanted attention, not in a mean way, but in a desperate way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So this whole thing got tangled up. She got tangled up in it, which made his credibility, which just made him seem more credible, which made people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Question, introduced more doubt.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's the thing. Yes. Okay. Okay. So that means based on everything. The charges were dismissed the following October because of insufficient evidence. And a couple of months after the murder charges were dropped. Super hot, charismatic, really charming. Jeffrey MacDonald appears on. He becomes famous. Oh, he becomes like the Sam Shepard, which is that everyone loves him and knows him and, oh, my God, he got his. Poor guy. His wife and two children died and, you know, that kind of thing. He appears on the late night program, the Dick Cavett Show. Although his celebrity comes from his family's brutal murders, he doesn't seem like he gives a shit. He's laughing. The audience is laughing. He tells jokes. He criticizes the army investigators.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No fucking way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He has no idea. Like, he is so charming and sociopathic that he doesn't understand how bad this looks. You know, one of those people that you're like, they love me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, this is. That's what Diane Downs did, remember?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, it's exactly that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then when they talk about, like, as if everyone's super concerned about them only, right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He doesn't bring up the fact that, you know, Colette's partner parents have lost their only daughter and grandchild and grandchildren. He's being fucking Mr. Funny man over here. And he's, like, celebrating that he got let off on this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's disgusting. But what's great about this is that up until this point, Colette's mother and her stepfather, who I think raised Colette, he's in it hard. Alfred and Mildred Kassab. How much you love Alfred and Mildred? You want to know who plays them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Alfred. Alfred is played by Carl Malden.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Streets of San Francisco. I was raised on it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The best TV show of all time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that the one where there's like all these couples and they all hang out in there? No, that's Love Boat. No, what's the one from like the night. The San Francisco 90s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

1 90s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Gay people and straight people and they're like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like, oh, oh, that's the. Yes, that's the. And books.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Something, something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, this was literally from the 70s. It was Michael Douglas and Karl Malden, detectives, San Francisco, driving around, shooting at people. And like, as they drive around, just randomly shooting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So they're murderers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, but cops. And as they drive around, it's just like. You get to look at. It's video footage. It's film footage actually of my childhood. Cause it's just like, oh, yeah, that used to be there. That was there. It's the most fun TV show to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I see an old la. Like, you know the one where they drive around town, everyone go watch Los Angeles plays itself. It's such an amazing movie documentary. Have you seen it? It's like a three hour documentary, perfectly narrated about Los Angeles playing itself in movies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So houses that are played in what? Movie backgrounds that are pretending to be China or, you know, downtown is supposed to be this thing. But you can tell it's not because of this landmark mark. It's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't wait. I've never heard of that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have to see it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen, don't do drugs, get high and watch Los Angeles by itself. And I'll see you in four hours. It's unbelievable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I gotta see it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's there. I watched it eight times and I've never gotten past an hour because it's just so involved and you fall asleep anyway. Okay. Carl Malden. Mildred is played by Eva Saint. Eva Marie Saint.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Eve Marie Saint.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My dad pretended he saw her. It was one of my favorite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, wait, did he pretend you saw her when he was carrying her bags on a ship and then he married your mom?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, he was. I know I talk about my father too much. He's really hilarious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Marty. We were pulling out, my dad and your dad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were pulling out of Vons and this woman walked in front of the car who was wearing a clear plastic high heel shoes. There was a real Angeline feel to this woman. Bit broken, trying to be pretty later on in life. In no way am I criticizing her. I'm there with her. But as she passed the front of the car, my dad goes, eva, Marie Saint and pretended to recognize her. And it's. I. It was. That happened four years ago. And I'm still laughing at it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think that would have made her day if she thought that someone recognized like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for if she. If she heard the sarcasm in his voice. He. It was a bit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Larry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Larry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Larry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jim.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why do I always call him Larry? Jim. Jim. Ginger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You think that I'm related to the Silvermans and I'm not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that their dad's name?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It could be. Oh, okay. So the parents are outspoken supporters of Jeffrey. Through the whole trial, everything. Alfred even said that if he had another daughter, he would still want Jeffrey as his son in law, which is creepy. But once the charges are dropped and he starts seeing all these little fucking creepy things, he's like, go fuck yourself. Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because the psychopath mask finally came.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Finally, yes. So he realizes that Jeffrey had been lying to him about so many things, including Jeffrey told him finally. He was like, get off my back, man. Here's what happened. Myself and several other Green Berets, we tracked down one of the killers and we put him. We killed him. They told him they killed one of the killers just to be like, we took care of it. Leave us alone. Leave me alone. So because of his crazy fucking, like, this guy, I want. Want, like, I'm pretty sure that Vince is going to be like, growing up to be this guy. And it made me like, kind of love him where it was. Not Vince, the other guy. Obviously. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he was just like, dogged. Became an investigator. Found everything wrong with his trial transcripts. Everything. He searched the house himself. He was a badass.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the dad, Colette's dad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the stepdad, who I think was with with him forever. They're like one of those cute old couples. Anyways, so with him and the formation of the CID reinvestigation team, they indict Jeffrey. By then he was living a lavish life in California as a civilian doctor. He's like, fucking chicks. He's got a yacht, he's got a lot of money. He's famous because he's the doctor who didn't kill people. Maybe in 1974, McDonald is brought before the. Jeffrey is brought before the grand jury in North Carolina and he's indicted on all three counts of murder in 1970, 1975.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In a trial that lasted over six weeks, the government introduced over a thousand evidentiary items. And at the trial, Helena denied. The chick, the crazy drug chick. Young person was like, I wasn't there. I don't know what happened. Denied everything. Later, she's diagnosed with schizoid personality.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is sad. Jeffrey McDonald was convicted of all three counts of murder in less than seven hours. Wow. Yeah. All right, so let's talk about what really fucking happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ready for the same story as above.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As the beginning, but what actually happened. And here's why we know. And this is fucking crazy. Okay? First of all, a lot of this is from the Mcdonaldcase facts.com by Phil Callahan. This guy is just a civilian. He's a fucking websleuth. And he's like, dedicated his life to this. Yeah. And he is like, here's what happened based on the fact that. And this is so fucking crazy. Crazy to me. All four members of the household, Jeffrey, Colette, Kristen and Kimberly, they all had different blood types, which is a statistic and statistical anomaly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, in a family, that doesn't fucking happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that means that they were able to trace what happened room by room because of the blood types.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I just got the weirdest chills.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what it made me think of when I wrote this down? So, you know, like in like, who Framed Roger Rabbit? Or those, like, old timey things are like, here's how to do the two step. And they put like a footprint here and a footprint here, and then one goes back on over here. It's like that with blood.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ready for this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a up dance. So here's what really happened. I mean, according to everything. In the early morning hours, February 17, 1970, Colette and Jeffrey McDonald get into a heated argument in the master bedroom. Jeffrey at the time, was taking amphetamines to lose weight. Seventies. What were those? Meth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And hadn't slept for 24 hours at least. So he's out of his goddamn mind. Right. In the previous weeks, Colette had been upset that Jeffrey was planning on leaving for a long time to be the doctor for the army boxing team, even though she was having a really difficult pregnancy. Pregnancy. And she was going to night school for psychology. So this chick was a badass, and he was kind of a narcissist. So his wife not wanting to stay at home and be, you know, him having to stay home and take care of his kids at night when she went to school, do the dishes, but did not jibe. Yeah. Is that the right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, let's get that word wrong. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, the issue with their daughter wetting the bed Was a big deal with them. He got really pissed off about it. She'd even brought it up in one of her psychology classes. Classes. And I was just guessing, maybe he got more angry that night that she wet his side of the bed. Right, right. Like, not just her bed. She wet the side. His side of the bed. Something snapped, and at some point, Jeffrey punches Colette in the face. Who then. And this is all based on blood evidence as well as the fibers from the pajamas. Right. Colette grabs a hairbrush, hits Geoffrey above his left eye. These are also based on the bruises and. Shit. Sorry. They wrestle, and Jeffrey's pajama top gets torn in multiple places. And then he hits Colette in the face a second time and grabs what we remember as the wooden club from earlier. What that turns out to be is that there was this wooden. This piece of wood holding up a corner portion of the master bed footboard. Because you know how sometimes it gets wobbly. You jam something underneath there to hold it straight. He grabs whatever that is when he's on the floor, and he thrusts it, like, jabs at her of one end of that end, her chest. And that's where that bruise came from.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like a wooden stake, because she probably.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Had something she was trying to hit with him so he couldn't come close to her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, exactly. Like a wooden stake. But he doesn't puncture her. He just, like, he just hits her with. Hits her with a javelin. So at this point, then Kimberly, the daughter, enters the room, hears her parents fighting, maybe, and Jeffrey turns around and hits her with the club on the left side of her face. Colette then screams, jeff, why are you doing this? Which is what he said he heard from the couch, but it's so loud that he thinks maybe the neighbors heard it. So he includes it in his story. But he turns it into, Jeff, why are they doing this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then Kimberly falls into the floor near the entrance of the master bedroom. And we know this because there's her blood spattered around that area. Colette then grabs a knife from her side table and she slashes Jeffrey's abdomen, resulting in that upside down v. Laceration on his abdomen. And then Jeffrey retaliates with two blows with the club to Colette's head, knocking her unconscious, conscious. At this point, Jeffrey strips the bed, picks Kimberly up, who's unconscious, picks her from the bed sheet and carries her back to her bedroom. He places her into a sleeping position. He, at that point, leaves 14 pajama threads under her bed covers. When he does that a 20.5-inch yarn of his bed clothes founds is found on top of Kimberly's pillow. And then this is, you know, he at this point supposedly would have had his pajamas off by then. So the fact that his pajama threads are all over these place shows that this is what he actually did. Because they shouldn't be underneath her, even if he did come in there. He then uses the club to strike Kimberly with two blows on the right side of her face. And when he does that, you know, he picked the club up and hit her twice. Casts blood onto the ceiling in those blows. And that blood had both Kimberly and Colette's blood mixed in. Which means we know that he hit her first, hit Colette first. Then he covers Kimberly's body with her blanket and bed covers. Then he gets a knife from the kitchen and he leaves behind minute traces of blood all over the kitchen. And the pattern shows that he was pacing the kitchen, one thinks, trying to figure out what the fuck to do. Grabs a knife, paces the kitchen back and forth. And a panic. Probably they don't think it was premeditated. Probably was like, what do I do now? What do I do now? What do I do now? Then he goes into Kristin's room and this is the other daughter who's sleeping, not part of this at all. And he stabs her in the chest as she lay in her bed. And the wounds indicate that Kristin was probably sleeping at this point in her pajama top. The wounds indicate that it had been lifted before she was sleeping. Stabbed. And the position of the wounds show that it was almost as if he was trying to identify the location of vital organs because she got stabbed in these specific places that a surgeon would know would bear the most, that would do the most damage, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like he is trying to be efficient in killing his daughter, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

At some point she wakes up to try to shield herself because she had cuts and bruises on her hand. And because of that, pajama fiber is found under her fingernail. He then stabs her in the back and places her. Places his daughter back into a sleeping position on her bed. And he places her favorite pink security blanket in her arms. Can you fucking deal? He exits the room. And then when he's like bringing the bed sheets to go, maybe wash them, but he hears Colette stagger into Kristen's room. He hears her go in there to try to protect her daughter, Follows her in with the club and he hits Colette in the face. Colette places her arms in front of her face in an attempt to ward off the blows. And her arms, which is why her arms are bruised and shattered. And she gets hit twice more. Then he sets. So then he sets his club, the club, down on Kristen's bed, which is why there are. Are traces of Kimberly's blood on the bed. Because the club he had hit Kimberly with was then placed on the bed. Is that insane? You're trying to say? You're trying to tell it to other people, but there's such a basic fucking obvious reason that it's not true. Which is why it's insane to me that people have websites dedicated to his innocence.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, right, because back then nobody knew anything about, like any of this blood, the DNA and the blood type and all that stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stuff didn't exist. All of this shows that it's a panic. This isn't planned. This is a fuck. What am I gonna do? Because then after all of this, he goes into the living room and he reads the Esquire magazine article. And we know this because there's a bloody smudge on the edge of the magazine. Then the blood belonged to Colette and Kimberly. He reads the article. Then he tosses his glasses aside. They land under the window in the living room. And we know this because on those glasses there's a mark of Christmas since blood. And that, that throwing the glasses aside to me is such a definitive action of. Well, now I know what I have to do. You know, I read this article about how the Tate murders, you know, we're blood crazed hippies. Well, now I know I have to finish this and make it look like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's also, as a person who was on speed for a year, I've done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Acid and I've done speed and that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For weight loss reasons.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, right. Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The idea that you would be able to read anything in that circumstance, specifically where he's just murdered his family and then he sits down to read an article, to me is like really indicative of the, of the kind of psychopath he was, because that's. Can you imagine, like, when you get into a fender bender, how freaked out you are and how like you're just kind of imagine in the middle of all of that, you sit down and read something or you. What would be. How would you even take anything in?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, here's what I'm wondering is if he had read it earlier that evening or whenever, because she had been at. She had been at school that evening. So I wonder if he had read through it earlier or not even thought about it. And then these things started Happening. And he was like, wait, how did they make this look like maybe he probably hadn't written the word pig yet in blood. And he was like, maybe fueled on by the fact that he had. He hadn't slept and had read this stuff about these murders and kind of was fueled by that. And then he went back to the magazine to be like, how can I make this look like a cover up? He wasn't going to read. He was going to find a way to cover this up. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get like the. What are the exact details? He's basically being a doctor about it. Where I was like, well, if I'm going to copy this, I'm going to copy it correctly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I'm going to do it in the way that's going to convince everybody. But, I mean, I'm. It's just so cold. It's like, oh, my God, he's a fucking reptile.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A total reptile. And then, like, another argument people had on Reddit, which I. I can back this up, is when you're on acid, you can't kill people. Like, killing people on acid is not a thing. Okay. Then he tips over the living room coffee table to show that there's been a struggle where he supposedly was sleeping. But it's. There's a lot of evidence that shows that it wasn't, which you can listen to in another podcast. Okay. So then he uses a bedspread to take Colette's body back to the master bedroom and in the process leaves three bloody footprints in Colette's blood as he leaves Kristen's room. And crazy thing about this is that you. They can tell that he was carrying something heavy by the way the footprints are mashed into the carpet. Oh, isn't that crazy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, because it's pile carpet. Like, they can measure it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How heavy was the footprint? Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. So here's. We're almost in. Okay. He puts Colette on the master bedroom floor and unknowingly sets her body down on top of 24 pajama fibers underneath her body, even though he said he put them on top. He hits her in the head again. And then he goes into Kimberly's room with the knife, inflicts more of her injuries with the knife. Then he takes the ice pick into Kristin's room, inflicts more room, more wounds on her. Then he. Then he goes back in and stabs Colette in the chest, chest and neck with a knife and stabs her 21 times after he had put down his pajama. Top on top of her. So at that point, he puts his pajama top on top of her, stabs her 21 times. And when the prosecutors were in court, they were able to show that the pajama top, the way it was laid down, matched every single one of those 21 marks. So he had put it on top of her as if to cover her so he didn't have to see himself stabbed. And 21 of those 21 marks went through that pajama top. So he said that they were on his arms and he was fending off blows from the people in the. That's why those 21 marks were there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it perfectly matches his wife's wounds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Insanely fucked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally insane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, just this idea of a crazed man walking from room to room killing and re. Killing his family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's horrifying that. And like, he had never. Apparently they were in an apartment building, so no one was ever. Like, they had never argued before. They had never heard them fight. They had some fucked up problems with their relationship. He had had multiple affairs like he had been fucking 15 women up until that point. Like they were having big marital problems, but they had never fought. So this is a guy who is whacked out of his mind and fucking snaps.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Doing this. It's not a. It's not a methodical killer. It's someone who is like, here's what needs to be done and does it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's over the edge for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he's over the edge. Right. And so the Sam Shepard case is really similar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, this one was after Sam Shepard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah. Sam Shepard's in the late 50s. Yeah. Early 60s. Yeah. So he probably read about that one too, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So then he walks to the back door with the weapons, tosses them into the. Into the murder bush, into the one bush. What do we call it? The murder bush.

[Tony Robbins]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Murder bush goes back into weapon bush. Weapon bush goes back into the master bedroom, uses the surgeon's glove to write the word pig on the headboard of the master bed. There's three fibers. I know. Three fibers from the pajamas found near the left corner of the footboard, and one fiber found near the headboard. So it was clearly him while he was. Wait, that must have been. Okay, something's going on. Anyways, then he obtains a disposable scalpel blade from the hallway closet because he won't even fucking stab himself with the ice pick. Stabs himself in the right side of his chest with a scalpel blade. And then I go to Reddit. And Reddit says someone on Reddit is really smart. And they say it is exactly where the doctor makes an incision to place a chest tube. To place a chest tube. So this is the spot that we. And he was like an emergency technician. This is where we cut someone to place a chest tube because there is almost zero risk of harming the patient. So he collapses his lung, but in a place that's not dangerous. He thinks that the severity of this wound will make people think, I didn't do it myself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then he is assured that he won't be hurt in any way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hurt enough to make people not suspect him. He then gathers himself for a little bit and then he phones authorities at 3.40am and 3.42am he did it twice. So that's how. What really happened. Jeffrey McDonald is now 68 and he remarried and is still in prison. Oh, 68 years old. Might be from an article. I didn't look at the date, but he's. He's an older man now, but he's still in prison. He's married.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When you said remarried, though, I was like, sorry, did he get off?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, holy shit. No, he's in prison and married in prison.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One of those people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He has never wavered from his claim that he didn't kill his wife and their children. And he says he'll never, never apply for parole because that would require an admission of guilt, even though he's up for parole, which means he won't be eligible for release until the year 2071. But he is still fighting for a new trial based on the fact that this woman, Helena, said she was the drug crazed hippie. And there's videos of her online. You can find all kinds of videos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From this of her just going, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Of her saying, I did it. I don't know, maybe I did do it. Go watch Fatal Visions. It's amazing. Amazing. There's so many interviews with him in prison. He reminds you of Ted Bundy meets fucking Robert Durst. Yeah, it's fucked up. So that's Jeffrey McDonald who murdered Colette, Kimberly and Kristen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, wow. That was amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so satisfying because the other one was really frustrating because it's. The other one. One was so similar.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The, Sorry, Sam Shepard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sam Shepard one was so similar but so mysterious. Whereas this one is like, it's parallel, but then it's the worst version.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's almost like this one is from someone who's even more narcissistic because he didn't Even come up with a good. There's no plan that's good enough to fucking make it seem like you didn't do it. No, there's nothing. That timeline. And if you read it specifically on that website that I found, let me see here, the mcdonaldcasefacts.com if you read it on that by Philip Callahan, it's even more specific and says what blood is where. What brain matter is where There's a drop of blood here, there's a drop of blood here. This blood is so and so's. This blood is this person's like it's. There's a hundred more like pieces of blood evidence and fiber evidence that have. There's no way to explain them away other than the fact that he did it. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, it just popped in my head because I'm. I can't get over a father stabbing his daughters who are so young. But if you're a surgeon, that kind of interaction with the human body isn't that weird to you because, because you do it a lot of times in a life saving way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So like the body is just not a human body to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, they say that thing about like. And I fucking. I'm sorry to insult a bunch of surgeons, but that surgeons have a harder. They are not, uh. Oh well they. This is the thing I'm not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this is going out to Colin Clink.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You started it here and it branding here just that. Well, the brain is different because it's not something you see every day or you know what I mean? But like the thing of where it's like if you are able to cut into a human body every single day and not think of it like, and not be freaked out by it. Right. You have a, you have a really, a brain that's really good at disassociating itself from other people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is how I'll say it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. From that. Any kind of. It's a different thing for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's not, it's not a human anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But that still doesn't explain the fact that they were his goddamn daughters. I don't know that I'm so offended.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But the thing of like the people who are narcissists who think of their children as a, a part of themselves, an extension of themselves. So he's not killing his daughter. He's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's, he's doing what he needs to do, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's, it's, it's part of him. It's his property. He could do whatever he wants, mess with it. Oh. And, I mean, how is it. And I'm not a parent, clearly, but how is it. I mean, look at my body. How is it. How is it any easier? Oh, I can't. I can't say this right. I could never kill a child even though I'm not its parent. How is it easier for someone else to do it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not. That's just. That's why he is this anomaly and this freak and this thing that we want to look at and talk about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A child at all, let alone your own. I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Horrifying. Jeffrey McDonald repeatedly. Okay. Wow. That was great. Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

There are updates. McDonald has maintained his innocence and repeatedly challenged his convictions to no success. A 2021 Department of Justice press release notes that these challenges have, quote, been repeatedly rejected by federal at every level. End quote. As of January 2026, Jeffrey McDonald is still in prison. He's 82 years old. In 2020, FX released a DOCU series on the case called A Wilderness of Error. There are some, like, compelling bits of information, like, against his guilty finding, his conviction.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yes. But not enough for me to believe that he didn't do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I would definitely watch that. It's a very compelling case.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, those are the. The toughest ones. Where it is hard to. First of all, it's a crime that's so hard to believe anyone would do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then it was handled in a way that's so messy that then just the fact that these many mistakes were made or this. Then you're kind of like, well, then maybe no one would do this or maybe this isn't real.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. It's the same with JonBenet where it's like you're never going to get the answer based on just the evidence that was gathered that night. You're not going to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now we're going to head back so we can wrap up this old episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank God. You need to go to the improv right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't. I won't make it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plug your show. What time is it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's. Can I just say this right now?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, Guy Branham.

[Georgia Hardstark]

25 minutes late already.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Start. Start. Go, Guy Br. We love you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Somebody posted a picture of themselves standing outside the Improv today. I'm gonna make it at the end.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're going right now? Yeah. You're gonna blow them away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's just do a quick thing. You like this week?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Going to Vegas tomorrow for Vince's birthday. Super excited.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, nice. Did I already tell my Vegas story?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I thought you went and saw Magic, Motherfucker.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Magic Mike. Did I tell that, though, online? Did I tell it live?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you didn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guys, if you are near Las Vegas or you're going anytime soon, like me, I'll go 1000%. Go see the magic strip show at Hard Rock. It is so good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is not sarcasm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not being sarcastic. You can tell because of how deep and resonating my voice is. If I'm being sarcastic, it goes up like this. It's so good. And the dancers are amazing, and the show is really cool and very modern, and a woman is the host, and it's very much about women getting what they want. It's really cool. It's very sexy. The dancing is incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can I take Vince?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. But, yeah, there was, like, probably five guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if I go out there and I'm like, where's Vince? He said he went to the bathroom half an hour ago, and then he comes out on stage and he's in one of the dancers, and he's like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Happy Anniversary or whatever, does the whole dance. The dancing is so good. And just. They're acrobats, they're gymnasts, they're dancers, they're musicians. Amazing. It's crazy. That's it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Triple threat. All right, we are back to wrap.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Up the show, the Weapon Bush Show. Okay, this episode was titled Weapon Bush, obviously.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So if we're naming it today, based on some of the stuff we said in this episode, perhaps we would call it Moment of Chaos. Love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We could also call it Levels of Hysteria.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then we could call it. Oh, this is a good idea.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Smart words from Colin Klenk telling us. Using smart words to explain. To explain that to us. Or Eva Marie Saint. My favorite joke.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love dad jokes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Classic comedy from Jim.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, that's this week's episode of Rewind. Thanks for being here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. We're going to say goodbye from 2017.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thanks, everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks for listening, you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We really appreciate everything you do for us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Tony Robbins]

Hey, everybody, it's Tony Robbins. Look, the time is here. It's 2026, and everybody talks about having a new year and a half, new life. But what do most people do? They create a few resolutions, and in the end, they don't really do anything. If you want this to be the best year you've ever had in your life, it's going to take a new tool, a new strategy, a new momentum, and maybe a new community. Of people to hang out with. So come join me for the Time to Rise Summit. I do it only once a year. It's coming up January 29th through the 31st. There's absolutely no charge for it, but it'll be an experience, I promise you. You will know, not forget. It'll give you momentum, a plan, and a strategy to make 2026 the best ever. If you're up for that, you're hungry for more, come join me. There's no cost for it whatsoever. Just go to time to riseummit.com time to riseummit.com I'll see you then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Business software is expensive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when you buy software from lots of different companies, companies, it's not only.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Expensive, it gets confusing. Slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites to sales to inventory to to accounting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All linked and talking to each other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Check out Odoo at O D O o dot com. That's O d o o dot com.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At cvs, it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When you need us, day or night. And we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Your craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At cvs, we're proud to serve your.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Community because we believe where you get your medicine matters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So visit us at cvs. Com or just come by our store.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We can't wait to meet you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Store hours vary by location.