Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 82: The MFM + Unqualified with Anna Faris Crossover Pt 1

Summary

My Favorite Murder REWIND – “82: The MFM + Unqualified with Anna Faris Crossover Pt 1”

Podcast: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark
Special Guest: Anna Faris
Date: February 4, 2026 (Rewind from August 15, 2017)

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Episode Overview

This episode is a “Rewind” in which Karen and Georgia revisit and reflect on a unique crossover with Anna Faris’s hugely popular podcast Unqualified—recorded in Anna’s Hollywood Hills home just after her very public separation from Chris Pratt. The main event is Karen’s retelling of the BTK killer case, followed by a round of Anna’s famous “Dating Deal Breakers” game, and a candid advice call. The tone is warm, darkly funny, and self-reflective—balancing true crime storytelling with irreverent, confessional humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The History and Vibe of the Original Crossover

[02:40–04:00, 08:48–12:31]

• Karen and Georgia reminisce about being invited to Anna Faris’s mansion at the height of her fame and just post-separation from Chris Pratt.

• They marvel at the eerie, candle-lit “Mole Room” with vintage posters and taxidermy, setting the perfect atmosphere for a true crime chat.

• There’s a mutual recognition of kindred “goth kid” sensibilities and jokes about haunted houses and the strange privacy of celebrities.

  “Her house was like, how can I make it look like the creepiest natural history museum where my people that come over might feel like they could get, you know, murdered?” – Anna Faris [05:01]

  “She was so cool, normal, real. Like, basically, like, we know each other already.” – Karen Hardstark [10:24]

• The tension of avoiding any mention of Chris Pratt is mentioned, including an awkward paparazzi encounter afterward.

2. The BTK Killer—Karen’s Story

[15:47–37:05]

• Karen recounts the case of Dennis Rader, the BTK killer (“Bind, Torture, Kill”), a notorious Kansas serial killer active from 1974–1991.

• The story begins with the harrowing Otero family murders and builds through BTK’s chilling correspondence, his taunting of police, and his decades-long evasion of capture.

• Anna’s reactions range from shock to gallows humor, with Georgia and Karen providing context and sidebars.

• Discussion includes the psychology of serial killers, the effect on Wichita’s community, and how BTK ultimately got caught via digital forensics and ego-driven communication.

  “He was a big serial killer aficionado himself... he said that all serial killers had the same factor X...” – Karen Kilgariff [36:23]

  “This guy was, like, on occasion...There’s certain terminology that you use with like, certain murder phrases, and bound is definitely one of them.” – Anna Faris [18:42]

Notable Asides:

• Why women cut their hair short in Wichita during the murders due to the rumor that BTK targeted long-haired women. [26:17]
• How BTK was hiding in plain sight as a dog catcher, Boy Scout leader, and church elder. [32:47–34:00]
• The psychology of notoriety and why Rader’s need for recognition led to his downfall.

3. The Ethics of the Death Penalty and Serial Killer Fascination

[37:05–43:55]

• Anna prompts deep, unscripted discussion about why some serial killers evade the death penalty while one-off crimes are punished more harshly.

• Karen, Georgia, and a federal prosecutor guest (Amy) weigh in on plea deals, state statutes, and the limits (and pitfalls) of learning from such criminals.

  “Do we weirdly clearly, like, kind of appreciate...the oddness of mentality and value that in a way...?” – Anna Faris [39:43]

• The group debates whether society’s fascination with serial killers means we (collectively) lose out by executing them instead of studying their minds.

4. Pacific Northwest Serial Killers & Creep Detection

[45:55–47:28]

• Anna recalls growing up near Seattle during the Green River Killer murders, reflecting on how people often joke about evil hiding in plain sight.

• The hosts discuss women’s intuition and the tendency to ignore “creepy vibes” out of politeness.

  “There’s the sense of creepiness that we’re taught to ignore. And especially as women.” – Anna Faris [46:57]

5. BTK Case Updates & Pop Culture

[47:55–50:19]

• Karen offers updates: BTK linked (but not charged) to other cases, Kansas’s death penalty law, and cultural depictions (Netflix’s Mindhunter and My Father the BTK; Carrie Rawson’s book).
• The conversation highlights how BTK continues to haunt true crime and pop culture.

6. Dating Deal Breakers Game

[52:43–56:15]

• Anna leads the group through her beloved segment, posing hypothetical red flags (e.g., “He calls spaghetti ‘pasghetti’,” “He gets his balls professionally waxed every month,” “He thinks O.J. was framed,” “He puts a finger up your butt without asking,” “He eats placenta in a shake every morning”).

• The segment is full of playful banter, strong (and evolving) opinions, and laughter.

  “Everyone calm down and shave your balls.” – Georgia Hardstark [53:26]
  “At some point, everybody accidentally becomes a brand.” – Karen Hardstark [13:48]
  “Pasghetti. Still an ick. I think we call it the ick now.” – Georgia Hardstark [56:21]

7. Perspective Changes & Podcasting Ethics

[57:03–60:45]

• Karen and Georgia reflect on how their deal breakers have changed with age, especially on issues like shared custody of pets after a breakup.
• They discuss learning to moderate their opinions, the realities of public podcasting, listener reactions, and the presence of trolls/bots online.

8. Advice Call: Managing a Boyfriend’s “Bro” Co-worker

[61:03–78:23]

• Caller Katie seeks advice: her boyfriend’s coworker makes passive-aggressive, sexist comments about their relationship in social situations.

• The group collectively advises healthy boundaries, addressing the boyfriend’s non-confrontational stance, and the importance of self-respect.

• The discussion segues into deeper points about women's socialization, reciprocal relationship dynamics, and trusting intuition.

  “You don’t have to be the chill girl. Like I feel like we all try so hard to be like, I don’t care, I’m so fuckin’ chill... and you’re allowed to have your emotions and one of those emotions sometimes is pissed the fuck off.” – Georgia Hardstark [74:48]
  “Be selfish in love... know your worth, know your independence, know that you’re young and there's so much life experience.” – Anna Faris [75:19]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “This is like the most efficient way to podcast, isn’t it?” – Anna Faris [04:14]
• “Dream house.” (On Anna's creepy, gothy décor) – Georgia Hardstark [05:23]
• “Welcome to our lives.” – Georgia Hardstark [04:45]
• “My goal was, like, how can I make it look like the creepiest natural history museum?” – Anna Faris [05:01]
• “For a serial killer that even if you have no feelings at all, you’re—oh, dude.” – Karen Kilgariff [34:55]
• “The idea that he clearly wanted desperately to be known... he’s the reason he got caught. His own need for ego, that fame.” – Karen Kilgariff [44:30]
• “Everyone calm down and shave your balls.” – Georgia Hardstark [53:26]
• “This person who is taking these weird little, like... love control and love power.” – Karen Kilgariff [43:26]
• “You don’t have to be the chill girl... and you’re allowed to have your emotions and one of those emotions sometimes is pissed the fuck off.” – Georgia Hardstark [74:48]
• “Be selfish in love... know your worth, know your independence, know that you’re young and there's so much life experience.” – Anna Faris [75:19]

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• [02:40] – Intro to the Rewind; remembering the Anna Faris crossover event
• [12:31–15:47] – Transition into storytelling (“Let’s get into Karen’s story about the BTK killer.”)
• [15:47–37:05] – Karen’s BTK story (detailed, with comedic and emotional asides)
• [37:05–43:55] – Death penalty discussion and what society learns or loses from serial killers
• [52:43–56:15] – “Dating Deal Breakers” (hilarious hypothetical red flags)
• [61:03–78:23] – Advice call to Katie about sexist co-worker comments, healthy communication, and self-prioritization

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode showcases what sets My Favorite Murder apart: dark humor, self-awareness, and an ability to balance gravitas with levity. Karen and Georgia’s chemistry with Anna Faris is immediate, and the show becomes a rare meeting ground of comedy, feminist candor, and true crime devotion.

Listeners will enjoy:

• An in-depth yet accessible retelling of the BTK killer and his bizarre psychology
• High-spirited, unscripted banter and confessions about fame, friendship, fear, and boundaries
• Advice delivered with empathy, realism, and wit
• Behind-the-scenes memories and reflections that add warmth and context to the MFM universe

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Note: Ads, intros, and outros have been skipped in this summary. All timestamps refer to main content.

Transcript

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.

[Karen Hardstark]

That's right, it's Wednesday again. And that means that we're recapping our old shows for you with all new commentary, updates and insights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So today's episode's a little different. We're recapping episode 82, which is part one of our two part crossover series with none other than Unqualified with Anna Faris. Because she's famous, like, Anna Faris. She's hugely famous. And we got asked to do this and we couldn't.

[Karen Hardstark]

And her podcast was super popular. I don't think she does it anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Hardstark]

But yeah, she was at top of her game and like, you know, it was such a cool ask and it was such an exciting thing to be able to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And then we also got invited to her house to do it in the fucking Hollywood Hills.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it was definitely like a famous person's mansion.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She and Chris Pratt had just separated. Like, just came out in the news that they had separated. So we were both a little like, nervous, I think, about, like, don't say anything about a husband or anything. Didn't wanna mention.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah, we were kinda like, say something wrong. Why didn't you cancel this? Yeah, like, are you just gonna podcast through it the way we are? Okay, we're bonded then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we'll do it.

[Karen Hardstark]

That's what we do too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Hardstark]

So this episode came out August 15, 2017.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 82.

[Producer/Host]

All right. Are we doing this?

[Karen Hardstark]

I don't know.

[Anna Faris]

Sim. You tell me what the fuck we're doing. I show up here.

[Producer/Host]

This is exciting. We're doing a crossover. Karen and Georgia from my favorite murder in your house right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you guys so much for being here.

[Anna Faris]

Hi. This is like the most efficient way to podcast, isn't it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everybody gets together in one room and talk all at the same time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Anna Faris]

I would like to describe the setting, though. We are now we're in like the. What we call the mole room because there's this massive poster of this horrible movie called the Mole People. It's from like 1946.

[Karen Hardstark]

And.

[Anna Faris]

And we. So we call this room the mole room. And now it's. It's incredibly dark and lit with candles. And we're going to talk about our favorite murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Welcome to our lives.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bloody Mary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? It does feel like that.

[Anna Faris]

Have you guys always been attracted to, like, morbid things?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like very attracted too?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I have yeah, yeah.

[Anna Faris]

In a creepy way challenge, though, because you've. I'll give you a tour later, but I have, like, a lot of shit around that's. I have a few, like, skulls, like, a lot of taxidermy. My goal with a house was, like, how can I make it look like the creepiest natural history museum where my people that come over might feel like they could get, you know, murdered?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dream house.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is haunted, for sure. The Mallroom is haunted.

[Anna Faris]

It really is, isn't it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely. If any room's gonna be haunted or any house, it's this.

[Anna Faris]

I always thought, like, with the haunted thing, like, we've talked about this on the podcast before, like, how interesting it would be if some. Somebody believed that their apartment at, like, The Oakwoods, like, B 2108, was, like, haunted.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. No, that's not fucking. But see, that's what I'm saying.

[Anna Faris]

Like, why do ghosts only gravitate towards, like, creepy darkness, old things? Like, Jack Warner, 1982, we were talking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

About big stars haunting the Oakwood, right? Like, they're really the biggest. It's like Bette Davis is in my half bath right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everybody get ready in the crown molding in the cheap crown. But we were talking about that how much creepier it is for a new build to be haunted than an old house. Because it's like, yeah, of course this place is haunted. There's, like, people who lived here, but if it's like, a new apartment or house in normal people's cases, then it's like, well, this is a fucking. The demon. A demon.

[Anna Faris]

It's not like Gary Sherman who died at, like, age 78, who just has.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A message for his wife.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. He's not a dick.

[Anna Faris]

He never got married, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, is that what it is?

[Anna Faris]

Yeah, he was just. He was just a little lonely. Died of a heart attack.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, his messages get out there, really mix and mingle. Try to find somebody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okwa gym is like steps from your house, and yet you won't exercise.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't be like me. Don't be like Gary and die alone. So sad.

[Anna Faris]

Thank you guys so much for being here. Thank you.

[Producer/Host]

Wait, you're pretending like it's your show.

[Anna Faris]

Oh, it's not my fucking show.

[Producer/Host]

Well, I'm just gonna tell the listeners what we're doing first, so we know.

[Anna Faris]

Great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it kind of is her show.

[Producer/Host]

Yeah, but it's, you know, we're just at her place. It's our show.

[Anna Faris]

It's true. I get. I get.

[Producer/Host]

We're doing a Full on cross. You guys are getting the full unqualified treatment, and we're gonna get the full My favorite murder treatment together.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like a guest. Maybe like you host this beginning part, then we'll host.

[Anna Faris]

Yes, I would love that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We move into the room we want to be in.

[Karen Hardstark]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is full of dead people.

[Anna Faris]

My upstairs bedroom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. Things get kinky in the half bath.

[Producer/Host]

Okay, I like that. So, Anna, you're going to host the first part next week we're going to release. We're actually on the 22nd. We're releasing this on the 15th. And we're releasing Steve. Right, we're releasing the 22nd part.

[Anna Faris]

I'm falling asleep.

[Producer/Host]

And then. No, listen, what we're going to do is it's very easy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is important.

[Producer/Host]

This is very important. We're gonna start with Karen. You're gonna talk about your favorite murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Producer/Host]

Then we're gonna go to Unqualified Deal Breakers. Then we're gonna take an advice call. After that, we'll end the show and then we'll come back next week. No, actually, we'll wait five minutes and then we'll start again. And this time you guys are hosting. And Georgia, you're gonna start with your favorite murder and Anna will go with hers. And then we'll do one more call and we'll wrap it up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's amazing.

[Anna Faris]

Can you go over that again a few more times?

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the most. What's the word? Like, when things are planned that I've ever really experienced in a podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it planned?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's called planned. Most planned.

[Producer/Host]

Well, we're trying. We'll see where it goes. I'm sure that we're gonna go off the road.

[Anna Faris]

Well, because you guys are Whittier than we are and we have to, like, plan shit out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're not from Whittier.

[Anna Faris]

Are you reading from.

[Karen Hardstark]

And we're back. Do you remember how did Steven just get this request in the Gmail?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I think they just reached her. People just reached out to us. Or maybe it was our agents. I don't know.

[Karen Hardstark]

I don't remember.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it was just really, like, surprising.

[Karen Hardstark]

What I do remember is the hedge in front of her house was literally 30ft high. Yeah, it was like, you wouldn't know there was a house behind the hedge.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What I remember is us leaving. We went out front to leave. We were, like, saying goodbye. And an SUV with, like, blacked out windows drives up, stops the window rolls down. Two, like, beefy guys just go, hey, where's Chris, meaning Chris Pratt. Oh. I think they were paparazzi, but I didn't know. And so I go, chris who? Like, I didn't. They go, hey, where's Chris? Like, really casually. And I go. And the other weird thing is that my high school boyfriend who died in a car accident's name was Chris Pratt. So the whole fucking thing is weird.

[Karen Hardstark]

That's crazy. That's really weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It just was a weird day. So they go, hey, where's Chris? Like, we're supposed to be like, oh, he's still in there with her. They're making it, like. I don't know what we're supposed to say, but I just went, who's Chris?

[Karen Hardstark]

Insane. I know. That was the perfect answer. You didn't know you had actually given the perfect answer to those people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I think what I remember is.

[Karen Hardstark]

Going in there and just being like. It was strange to be in someone's personal space.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Hardstark]

Like, to that degree.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And very trustworthy of a. Like, a famous people are very private and are very, like, protective of their personal spaces.

[Karen Hardstark]

Like, as they should be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. So the fact that we didn't go into, like, an office or a studio. Right. Was, like, an honor. That was scary.

[Karen Hardstark]

And she was so cool, normal, real. Like, basically, like, we know each other already.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She was fucking hilarious, too. Like, immediately on our level. Not that we're, like, the funniest, but, like, we have a weird level.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you and I know each other well, so we have a level together. And she was immediately just like, boom, hitting it.

[Karen Hardstark]

And so complimentary. Like, she made us feel comfortable. I just remember. Yeah. It was a very lovely. But also funny because, like, the concept of this episode was very odd. And we were all just like, is this even gonna work? It was. I think it was kind of their producer's idea of how we were gonna.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do it, but it ended up being.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The great perfect cross. Like, a literal, perfect crossover.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah. And also to, like, all the kind of gothy elements. We're like, oh, yes, we do know you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Hardstark]

This is very cool. Also, she is tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, Petite, Gorgeous. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Couldn't be lovelier.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Little lady.

[Karen Hardstark]

People love to hear about stuff like that. Cause it's always, like, if they see a celebrity in real life, they're like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I couldn't believe he was so short.

[Karen Hardstark]

It's like every celebrity is literally five foot two. Every single one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Male or female.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Five foot two.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yep. Big heads.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Big heads. I don't know if Ana wants to come back on our podcast.

[Karen Hardstark]

I Would love it if she wants.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To come to exactly the right network. Please, Whenever you want.

[Karen Hardstark]

If Anna Faris still listens to this podcast. Podcast, which probably not, but would be so cool to have her back 10 years later, basically.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely. And what I love about this, and let's get into it, is that you cover one of the most fucking crazy ass stories of all time. I forgot that you covered the BTK Killer in this episode.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yes, Wild. Perfect the way we did. And also, I didn't realize I was going to be doing a story by myself. It was almost like, here we go. And like, okay, go ahead, tell us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One of the biggest ones ever. Go right ahead.

[Karen Hardstark]

And I have to do that in front of the star of Just Friends, one of the greatest films of all time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the house bunny. Don't forget the house bunny.

[Karen Hardstark]

Don't ever forget the house bunny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, let's get into Karen's story about the BTK Killer.

[Karen Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Hardstark]

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Goodbye.

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[Anna Faris]

Okay, should we jump right in?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's. Yeah, you want to do.

[Producer/Host]

Let's do your murder.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah, let's do murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, just start.

[Producer/Host]

Just go for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, guys, well, this is in. When I got the email, the highly detailed email about how this was gonna go and it said my favorite murder. Like I've already done most of my favorite true. You know, like my. My top 10. You know what I mean? We've burned through.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah, you've done.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, a bunch so. But I realized there was one I haven't done that I Do. I've always been very fascinated by. And that's the BTK killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. Heavy hitter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this is. But we're doing shorter versions than we normally do.

[Anna Faris]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is kind of a bit of a condensed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mine's have other stuff. What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you not know what I'm talking about?

[Anna Faris]

No, I do. I was like, how do I make a lame joke? Because I'm actually not a comedian at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look at me. I'm not either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For a second I honestly thought. I was like, am I going to tell her about the worst man who's ever lived? This is so exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mine's not shorter. Is your shorter.

[Anna Faris]

It isn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I was gonna.

[Anna Faris]

I don't know that many details. Will you please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, this is. I mean, I'm excited to hear about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This and somebody just give me a wrap it up if we need to like.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Sure.

[Anna Faris]

Sam does an amazing.

[Producer/Host]

I have a great wrap it up finger. I just do this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, guys, wrap it up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So this all started in wichita, Kansas in January 15, 1974. And it's bad, bad, bad. So 15 year old Charlie Otero comes home from school and he sees that his garage door is open, which is. And he comes home to find the whole house a mess. But it's silent, which is insane because he has four other brothers and sisters. He's the oldest, everyone else is younger than him. So he knows something is very wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

His house has never been quiet in his life.

[Anna Faris]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If there's five kids.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he's walking around trying to figure.

[Karen Hardstark]

Out what's going on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then he hears his sister yell, charlie, come quick. Mom and dad are playing a bad trick on us. So he goes upstairs.

[Anna Faris]

Oh God, I'm getting choked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mom and dad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm only in the. I haven't even gotten through the first paragraph yet. That's how bad this is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he goes upstairs and he finds his brother and sister, Carmen and Danny, huddled together, holding each other in their room. And then he goes and checks the parents room and he finds his father, Joseph otero, who was 38, dead on the floor, bound and strangled to death. And his mother Julie, who's 34, also bound and strangled to death, laying on the bed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're babies. 34. And you have four or five kids. Yeah, that's. That's crazy. That's how they did it back then. Yeah, that's just so.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God. Just fill up that station wagon.

[Anna Faris]

Hung up on the bound thing like. Like, are they. Like where are their arms and Legs are tied.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was one of them. He was a big hog tire. But I'm not specifically on this, but, like, okay, with this guy.

[Anna Faris]

You know what I mean? There's certain terminology that you use with, like, certain murder phrases, and bound is definitely one of them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Anna Faris]

This guy was, like, on occasion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was gonna say the same thing, like, with the word. What's the word when you get all your intestines taken out? Emboweled.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Where?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Disembowel.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Disembowel. But that's not sexy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Emboweled is when you have them all put back in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That wasn't relevant. Go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay. So it. This is where it. It's even worse. So he yells to tell his siblings to go find their other brother, Joseph Jr. And their sister Josephine, and bring them to him. But they can't find them. And so they call the police. The police come, the kids get out of the house, and the police find Joey in a different bedroom, also browned and murdered. And then they search the whole house, and they finally find Josephine, and she's been murdered. She's hanging from a pipe in the basement. Yeah. So they. There's no indication of forced entry. The phone line has been cut. Classic horror movies.

[Anna Faris]

74.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what you do. Yes. For the scariest results possible. The family car's gone, and there's no clues. The killers left nothing behind. Until upon closer inspection, the police find that there is semen next to where Josephine's body was in the basement. That's the mom in the basement.

[Anna Faris]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So because they stole the family car, the first break they have is that a man. They finally find the car in a grocery store parking lot, and then they find a man who saw who was driving the car, but the only description they have of him is he's a white man, dark hair.

[Anna Faris]

So it seems like, to narrow it down, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I mean, you've. You've just gotten rid of all those blondes.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen, if you're on Mars and it's all green, little green men, then you're like, it's the one guy who's white and with. With dark hair. But unfortunately, you're in Wichita.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're in Witchita, Kansas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A lot of whites.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Anna Faris]

So why didn't the people at the Frosty Freeze. They should start to, like, clock, like, descriptives of every single customer they have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I do that now. Do you do that now? Now that we have this podcast, I'm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, at our job. Frosty Freeze.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Listen, this podcast doesn't pay. Well, I do that now when I'm like, I see someone strange in my like, apartment building. And I'm like, button down, fucking plaid shirt. And that's actually a description of my husband.

[Anna Faris]

But I wave at everybody in our neighborhood, like, oh yeah. Like, I'm just like, hi, I acknowledge you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then they're like, when was the last time you saw Anna? And they're like, well, she waved at me at 7:35 in the morning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't you kill me.

[Anna Faris]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

See each other?

[Karen Hardstark]

We got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like those stories where a little kid who has some kind of autism spends a lot of his time writing down license plate numbers. And they. That kid then turns in his notebook and the cops end up finding somebody because he does that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Never heard that.

[Anna Faris]

Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've heard it on two different ones.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What I love is when a little kid is like, he looked like a lion. And then you're like, this might have been a movie. Then they're like, you're so stupid, little kid. And then you see him and he's like, got a lion beard. And like. Or he looked like a clown. And then it's like he was a clown. Like when little kids say stupid shit and then it turns out that they're not stupid. Yeah, like, we're just. We don't have an imagination.

[Anna Faris]

Really loves blue popsicles, right? And you're like, who has a blue mouth?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God, it's Jimmy Blue mouth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucking blue mouth. At it again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's get back to the murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so now a year later, there's two brothers, the Sebring brothers in Wichita. They turn themselves in for these murders. They have records. The police search their house. The brothers say that they had an accomplice, that they killed the whole family.

[Karen Hardstark]

And.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That goes into the newspaper and on the News. So about 11 months later, the local paper in Wichita, I believe it's the Wichita Eagle, they get an anonymous call saying there's a letter in an applied engineering mechanics book at the Wichita Public Library that the police need to go take a look at. So they get the letter, and it's from btk. And it's before he gave himself his name, he said, those dude singular you have in custody are just talking to get publicity. They know nothing at all. And then the letter goes on to list in incredible detail exactly how the Otero family was killed and down to specific knots that were used and bindings and the fact that a radio was stolen from the house, which the cops hadn't noticed. And no one had noticed.

[Producer/Host]

Whoa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Until this letter. And then they went and checked it out and it was true. So now they know that they're communicating with the man who killed this family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the police decide to keep the letter out of the property. And they keep investigating. So two years later, in March 17, 1977. A man knocks on the door of Shirley Viand's house. She's a 24 year old mother of two. And the children answer the door and let him inside. And he takes the children, locks them in the bathroom, puts a door under the door handle. Then he strangles Shirley to death and binds her first. Strangles her to death.

[Karen Hardstark]

And leaves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The children get out. They are able to describe the man to the police. And they say he's a large white man with. Carrying a big black bag. So nine months after that, it's December 9, 1977. And a caller calls the police dispatcher. And gives them the address of Nancy Fox, who's 25 years old. And the police arrive at the address and find the body of Nancy tied up and strangled. And there's again semen found near the body. And the killer's voice is captured on tape. When he called into the dispatcher. And so the police release this tape.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait. It was him who called in to get them to come to her body?

[Karen Hardstark]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What a creep. I mean, he's a murderer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the police release the tape on tv. And they ask anyone who recognizes the voice to please come forward. No one does. No one knows who it is. So two months later, in February, there's a letter sent to KAKE tv. That's right, KAKE TV in Wichita. Claiming responsibility for the deaths of the otero family. Of Mrs. Vianne and of Nancy Fox. As well as another unnamed victim. And the caller, the writer of the letter. Demands to be called btk. For bind them, torture them, kill them.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah, it's sort of a weird version of fuck, marry, kill, isn't it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yeah, but it's more past tense as opposed to like future.

[Karen Hardstark]

Do you think?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Burger King. That's not funny. That's in bad taste, Georgia.

[Anna Faris]

I thought it was very funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, thank you. But thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone supports you, Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. Court of room.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The next day, the police chief named Richard Lebunion Announces that a serial killer is at large in Wichita. His name is BTK and he has threatened to strike again. So, of course, everyone loses their shit. In Wichita. There is a rumor going around that this killer is targeting women with long hair. So Almost all the women in Wichita, Kansas cut their hair short. There's like a line.

[Anna Faris]

I want to work it. Beauty cuts. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

1977.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll just give you a nice dirty.

[Anna Faris]

Handle, make them bank.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we'll curl the bangs under. You want to work it far back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sheer bliss.

[Anna Faris]

Oh, this is horrible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's bad. A year later, in April 28, 1979, a woman named Anne Williams. Oh, no, I'm sorry.

[Karen Hardstark]

Anna.

[Anna Faris]

So Anna or Anna.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I think it's Anna Ferris Williams.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, God.

[Anna Faris]

It's not cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's not cool.

[Anna Faris]

I knew that I was living in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some kind of weird purgatory, but this is it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is all that happens is someone.

[Anna Faris]

Says your name, I become a movie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Star and it's the best purgatory ever.

[Karen Hardstark]

Love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so this woman, Anna Williams, this is a crazy part of the story. She has square dancing one night. And so she's supposed to. Normally from when she goes home from work, she's home around 7. But that night she was square dancing. So she doesn't get home until after 10 o'.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Clock.

[Anna Faris]

She's sweaty and like full of joy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's been flirting with cowboys.

[Karen Hardstark]

Square dancing.

[Anna Faris]

Come on.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's not a more innocent hobby that you could have. Like it's like in a meet. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she gets home and notices that her bedroom door is open. And she knows for a fact that she shuts it. Every morning when she leaves her house, she picks up her phone to call the police and the phone line is cut. So she runs to the neighbor's house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she. They call the police. The police go to her house and search her house. And they find a wire fashioned into the shape of a noose next to the bed. And in a previous communication, BTK had promised that he was going to hang his next victim. So Anna never went back to the house. Hey, hey.

[Anna Faris]

We'll back it up. Keep her, Anna.

[Karen Hardstark]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What a weird promise. Yeah, you know, like I pinky swear. Ugh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she never goes back to the house. But her daughter goes by to pick up the mail and they find a letter addressed to Anna's deceased husband, care of her. And it looks very official, but when they open it, they find a pair of her pantyhose inside and a drawing of what he had intended to do to her with a poem called. Oh, Anna, why didn't you appear? So this 66 year old woman who went square dancing instead of home didn't get killed by BTK because of that. So seven years later, it's September 16, 1986, and Vicki Wegerly, who's only 28 years old, is found by her husband when he comes home from work, Strangled and near death. So he calls the paramedics. They come, they work on her, and they get her into the ambulance, and they get her to the hospital. The crime scene is completely compromised because they're all walking all over it, and she dies of rent injuries. The police have no leads, and the case goes cold. So 30 years later, on the 30th anniversary of the BTK killings, the Wichita Eagle publishes a recap.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thirty years later and no new murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Anna Faris]

I was on the Wichita police force.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I tell you what, did it eat you up inside?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wrote for the Wichita eagle, and I was like, who? Wait, how has this not been solved?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It goes forward in time, and you have one gray wisp of hair, like right on the side of your bottom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's real stylish.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how we know that 30 years have passed for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's it, though, because I've had botox ever since. Still, it's so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they publish a recap of what happened and the effect that it had on the city. And a couple days later, a letter arrives at the Wichita eagle, and it contains a photocopy of Vicki Weggerle's driver's license and photos of her dead body posed. So it's the btk, and he's letting the police know that he has not gone anywhere and he's not a part of history. And he begins to communicate with the police through statements in the newspaper and personal ads and through letters. And they. The police basically convinced him to start sending them packages because they know that anything that they have from him, they can get. Now there's so much more forensic science that they can apply to all this, because, of course, back in the 70s, all they could do is collect stuff and put it in an envelope.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Lick that stamp, motherfucker, and put it on an envelope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly right. So they're trying to get him to do all that. At one point, he's actually caught on surveillance video in his jack black jeep cherokee Dropping off a package to the police station.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because he's like, thinks he can never get caught.

[Anna Faris]

So.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At one point, he asks the police if they can trace him through floppy disk. And they. The police say no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the police are lying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess my big reveal the. For lying to him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry. Police are not allowed to lie by law. Well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it turns out in this case.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, what yeah, you can. So it's inadmissible.

[Anna Faris]

Vtk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't worry about a thing. And go ahead and send us that floppy disk. Because his thinking was he had so many maps he wanted to show them and poems and things that he wanted to communicate to them. He didn't want to have to send it all individually. So he was like, I'm just gonna throw it all into a floppy disk and send that over to you.

[Anna Faris]

And name.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I have all my serial killer documents? And they were like, sounds great. Do it right away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

AP English or some shit. I don't know what that means because I was never in AP English, but I bet Advanced Placement that you couldn't do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, you can't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they, of course, trace him on that, and they find out that the person sending all of this is a man named Dennis Raider. He's a husband and a father of two. He's the city dog catcher. He's a church elder, and he was a Boy Scout leader. So he was the entire time hiding in plain sight in Wichita.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Any one of those seems like a serial killer job. But, like, I'll take out, you know, like a dog catcher. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, the dog. Do you remember that hometown that we had? We had somebody send us a letter, and they were from Wichita. And this story they told was they had a dog that got out, and the dog catcher lived in his neighborhood, and the dog catcher took the dog and took him inside his house, and then he went down to get the dog, and the dog catcher was like, no, no, no. You have fines that you have to pay, and you can't have this dog back. And I'm gonna take him into the pound tomorrow morning and all this stuff.

[Karen Hardstark]

The guy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the guy basically charged his neighbor and was like, I'll beat the shit out of you. Give me my dog back. And he got his dog back and went home. And then, like a month later, it was revealed that that guy was btk. So he basically almost got into a fist fight with a serial killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You started some shit.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he's like, give me my fucking dog.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's amazing. Forgot about that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So essentially, Dennis Raider confessed to all of the killings, and then he confessed to two cold cases that they didn't know were connected to the btk, which one was a woman named Catherine Bright who was stabbed to death in her home. She BTK was waiting inside her house. When she got home, he didn't know that she would be with her brother Kevin, who he then shot and thought Was dead. Then went and attacked Catherine. And then Kevin got up and tried to fight him again. And then he strangled him and thought he was dead again. And then he murdered Catherine and then turned around and Kevin's body was gone.

[Karen Hardstark]

Kevin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kevin had gotten up and fucking ran.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Out of the house.

[Anna Faris]

Fuck. Yeah, Kevin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And called the police.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So can you imagine how scary that was? Like, even for a serial killer to turn around and the body's gone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, dude.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Even for a serial killer, the most.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For a serial killer that even if you have no feelings at all, you're.

[Karen Hardstark]

Like, oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he on that case, he. Or that crime, he didn't clean up anything. He didn't do this. His normal stuff that he would do. He just like really quickly covered his tracks and ran out. So he was positive he was going to get caught on that murder. And he went, wasn't. And then the other one, this, this, this is bad. It was 1985. He broke into the home of Maureen Hedge, who was one of his neighbors. And after her male guest left for the night, he got. He snuck out of her closet, turned on her bedroom light, he, she sat up, he pounced on her and strangled her to death. And then he put her body in the trunk of his car. Oh, no, sorry. The trunk of her own car. And drove to the Christ Lutheran Church, where he eventually became a church elder and took pictures of her in various sexual bondage positions. He had all of these pictures in his house and all of the pictures of all of his victims in his house. When they arrested him, they found all these files in his garage. And so basically he entered guilty to all counts, all 10 murders. And he was given 10 consecutive life sentences. And he said in an early letter that he blamed his murders on what he called factor X. He said he was a big serial killer aficionado himself. And he said that all serial killers had the same factor X, from Jack the Ripper to the Son of Sam. And he said that basically factor X was a demon. And he described it as something that controls his desire to kill. And he drew it in varying ways, sometimes as a frog and sometimes as a more traditional looking demon. And that's the basics for the BTK killer, everybody.

[Anna Faris]

Okay, can we talk a little bit about the death penalty stuff? Why do serial killers tend. Some of them get a pass, like you shoot somebody, let's say once by accident during, you know, when you're robbing a gas station. If you, if you live in Kansas, you're gonna get like the death penalty. Why the. Does he like Get a pass. He's serving pled guilty, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I have no idea. We are the last people you should be asking.

[Karen Hardstark]

We have no idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can speculate. I'm the shit out of the this, but it's all speculation. And I think it's because he made a deal that if he pled guilty, he wouldn't get put to death, right? Most likely. You guys are both scary.

[Anna Faris]

I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because then you don't have to put the families through the trial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, also depends on state by state. Some places have the death penalty and some don't.

[Anna Faris]

Amy, you could probably weigh in here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm a actually federal prosecutor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit. Hey, why are you not getting in here?

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah, right.

[Anna Faris]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like a podcast called, like, my favorite narcotics distribution offense. Doesn't like, really have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. I want to hear that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have the same ring. No, I don't actually do death penalty cases, luckily for me. So this isn't really something I can weigh in on. But certainly there's lots of reasons we don't do that. There's lots of reasons why somebody might not get the death penalty between, like, whatever the statute is to a plea agreement, like you said. Or also there could be, you know, they might have a potato. I mean, there's just a lot. There's a lot of different reasons.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is it rare to get a death penalty case based on all the things you can do to avoid even to go to trial that way? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, I mean, again, I do federal criminal law, so I don't speculate.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Again, speculation. This whole thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have worked on some death penalty matters. There were habeas petitions at the ninth Circuit, and they were pretty horrible, gruesome cases. I did not enjoy it. So I don't know how. I don't know how you guys.

[Anna Faris]

I just don't. You know what I'm saying?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do this every day.

[Anna Faris]

I don't like. And you know, we tend to be. Whatever. Okay, I don't mean to go off on my weird tangent.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go on. That's what this podcast is.

[Anna Faris]

But truly, like, why? Like, it seems like, all right, if we're going to accept the death penalty, which I'm not in, like, favor of, just in general on an ethical basis, but if you're going to do. If we're going to do it as a nation. Seems like the BTK guy. Well, you know, that seems like top of the list. Yeah, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, a lot of the. For me, a lot of the sentencing and that sort of thing. Doesn't really make a lot of sense. There's not like a. There's not a clear cut one where it's like, well, he did this, so this is gonna happen. Because historically, this is how these people get charged.

[Anna Faris]

I just wonder if, like, the gruesomeness of fascination, like, is adds this undercurrent of, like, do we weirdly clearly, like, kind of appreciate the. The obsession and. And the oddness of mentality and value that in a way that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or we can learn from it in some way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I think it. I definitely don't like, value it or appreciate it. I don't think the fascination is a positive.

[Anna Faris]

No, not at all. Of course not. Yeah, but there is something different about the fascination of mind of somebody like this that whereas somebody else we're a little more dismissive of, like, yeah, we'll inject you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I always think it was a really interesting decision and maybe even we lost something in the film that Ted Bundy was put to death, because I feel like there's so much we can let's. The extreme of being a sociopath and psychotic. We could have learned so much about the human brain based on just interviews with Ted Bundy, not with people who could be tricked. You know what I mean? And, like, so we put him to death and it's like, well, we kind of put ourselves out of a learning experience in a way. I mean, he was gonna stay in prison for the rest of his fucking life.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, I agree with you. My uncle lived across the street from him, by the way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was in Seattle. Yeah, start over.

[Anna Faris]

No, that's all I know. Just that he lived. My uncle lived right across the street where Ted Bundy lived in. He rented a room in an attic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is this the same uncle who made the guillotine that was on your front porch? It is. Holy. He sounds like a badass motherfucker. Yes, he is. He's awesome.

[Anna Faris]

Get on the podcast, Uncle Roger.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Roger, get on the podcast.

[Anna Faris]

So, okay, I'm sorry, I did not mean mean to go off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no, no, no, not at all. No, because I was thinking about that. Like, it is the, like, Ted Bundy was interviewed a bunch at the end of his life. But I think people get so. It's like, you murder almost 40 women, and after a while people are just like, get rid of him. Like, we don't care what he has to say anymore. It's not that idea of, like, him getting to have, which I'm. I also don't even know how I feel about the death penalty, I'm definitely not advocating for, for it, but I do see the mentality of people just being like, do you want to die tonight in this gorgeous home again?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Guillotine, guillotine on the front porch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This whole thing is going to turn into like some kind of game that Anna's playing with us.

[Anna Faris]

We're like, oh, wouldn't that be magical?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She tried to kill us in all different ways.

[Anna Faris]

My favorite.

[Karen Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Producer/Host]

Run.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But like Dennis. What I think is fascinating about Dennis Rader is he was like, when he was the dog catcher, they called it like the city. I can't remember the name of the term that was on the side of the van of this really good made for TV movie I watched. But he would do things like go around and measure people's lawns and if your lawn was too high, he would take a picture of it and give people a warning. And there was a story in this movie and I didn't have time to see if it was real because I didn't know how to fact check it. But I think it probably they put it in based on something he really did, which is if somebody's dog got out, he would bring it to the pound and then tell the person they had to talk to him before the pound would release the dog to the person. And then so he would say they have five days to contact him and then he wouldn't answer his phone and then the pound would kill the animal. He did that in this made for TV movie. He did that to one woman. And I remember hearing about other things like that.

[Karen Hardstark]

So it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's like this person who is taking these weird little, like, you know, those people that love control and love power, even though it's like the dog catcher power.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I could see that in a way where Ted Bundy would get off on being interviewed and it's like, he's not really being punished. He doesn't give a shit about staying in prison the rest of his life because all these people want to know about him. So it's almost like, kill that motherfucker.

[Anna Faris]

It's a really fucked up way to approach fame, isn't it? Like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you just want to be famous, put it mildly.

[Producer/Host]

Yeah.

[Anna Faris]

I was gonna go through like two different avenues. I just knew when I was eight that I just really wanted to be famous. Acting or killer or whatever else it takes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whatever it takes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If killing doesn't work, then you go with acting. I mean, they're very similar podcast, very similar. But.

[Anna Faris]

But but truly though, like, the psychology, I guess maybe this is what you're getting at, Karen, is the idea of like. Like the idea that he clearly wanted desperately to be known.

[Karen Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Anna Faris]

Himself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, he's the reason he got caught. His own need for ego, that fame.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like even two people almost got put to put into prison because of the, you know, who admitted to it. Like, you should be like, great, I got off of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He would have been. It would have been a lot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that would be the old double.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jeopardy thing we talk about where if those people, people were prosecuted for his crimes, then he would have. He would have been innocent. And he couldn't let that happen because he wanted the credit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My question is a fucking Applied Engineer book at the library. You think people check that out enough that they're going to find out they're going to find that letter that he wrote. Applied Engineering?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, I think he. No, I think he put it in just specifically for the cops. I don't think he stuck it there like forever, but.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He went and put it in and then called and said it's in this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Book because it was 11 months. I thought he was just waiting for some engineer student to go ch this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Book out and like, smart people will get this. No, no, I think you just rolled on up to the library.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen, I think George is totally right. I don't know.

[Anna Faris]

No, I think he was like, this is an obscure one, but maybe like someday. Yeah, y.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some lucky nerdy number.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This isn't a post secret book where they like, hi. People hide their real secrets. Listen, how was fucked up? I'm glad you did that one. I feel like we don't do like famous serial killers a lot, but they're still such interesting stories. Like Ted Bundy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like we have a lot.

[Anna Faris]

I grew up north of Seattle and there's. There's like. Yeah. You guys know you're not in Pacific Northwest? Yeah, I know. It's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's something. Yeah. You guys get in the rain?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Anna Faris]

Loneliness, Loneliness.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Depression.

[Anna Faris]

Control. Not enough people getting laid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So many layers of clothing all the time.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That wool that scratches on you until you kill.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So did you. Do you remember a lot of this from when you were a kid?

[Anna Faris]

Well, I remember we had the Green river killer, right?

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you hear a lot about it?

[Anna Faris]

Oh, yeah, it was like in the news all the time. Like another body found, Another body found, another body found. And. And then I heard a story that, I don't know, you guys might know more about this, but that apparently his co workers at the gas or whatever he. The car mechanic place that he worked at would joke that he. There would be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They'd be like, dudes.

[Anna Faris]

The Green River Killer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, because he's so boring.

[Anna Faris]

I think. You know what? There's like the scent, there's the sense of creepiness that we're taught to ignore. And especially as women.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Anna Faris]

And like, because we want to be polite, we want to be kind, but some maybe somewhere in us there's that little tug of like. Oh, yeah, that one. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not surprising.

[Anna Faris]

It might be a little creepy. Maybe you should avoid that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The eyes are bad on that one. That's what I always think.

[Karen Hardstark]

Bad eyes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Well, there. And also it's that like, overly nice creepy that you can't really explain. It's the same thing of when, like when the guys who put girls who. When a girl puts you in the friend zone, they're like, you don't want a nice guy. And it's like, no, we don't want a creep who's like, who's being nice to us. Not. I don't know where I'm going on this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, no one who has an agenda.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Agenda.

[Karen Hardstark]

That's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. We're back. Karen, update us, please.

[Karen Hardstark]

There are some updates. Chris Pratt is a crazy Christian now.

[Anna Faris]

I know.

[Karen Hardstark]

I mean, sorry. For the BTK case in 2023, police named Dennis Raiders a suspect in the disappearance of Oklahoma teenager Cynthia Dawn Kinney and the murder of 22 year Shawna Beth Garber in Missouri. No charges have been filed due to lack of strong evidence. But what a horrible realization for the people working on that case, for the family of those people, where it's like they could have been the victim of one of the worst serial killers we've ever seen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whenever these people get caught, it's always like this thing of where did they travel to for work or on vacation? We need to look into those places too. Those things are so chilling to me that it's just like anywhere this monster virus of a person went, he infected or possibly infected where he was and how he started.

[Karen Hardstark]

So it's that thing of when they always say, like, Hayden starts by killing an entire family and getting away with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, exactly.

[Karen Hardstark]

Like, how did this begin? Okay, so we briefly speculated in this episode why Dennis Raider didn't get the death penalty. And it's because Kansas didn't have capital punishment at the time. But it was reinstated in the mid-90s. So he still serves 10 consecutive life sentences. And his earliest possible Release is in 2180 and considering the fact that right now he's 80 years old, he'll die in prison. And one of my favorite parts of the Netflix series Mindhunter, which if you haven't watched it in a while, God it's so good. He is the ADT killer. He is that mysterious like C plot that runs through and is so creepy and disturbing. So bad. Also, there's a documentary on Netflix called my father the BTK from October 2025 and it centers on the experiences and memories of Dennis Raider's daughter Carrie Ross.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so she it's based on her book A Serial Killer's Daughter, which I read, which is incredible. It's such a creepy fucking story and she's a great storyteller. I highly recommend her book and also.

[Karen Hardstark]

I heart released a podcast in January 2025 called Monster BTK. So if you want the whole story or you just want to go back and get the details, you can to listen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen to that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, so let's get back into the episode where we play a game from Anna's show called Dating Deal Breakers. I love it.

[Karen Hardstark]

This is fun.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

This is US Olympic gold medalist Tara.

[Producer/Host]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[Producer/Host]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So when it came to getting the.

[Producer/Host]

Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Karen Kilgariff]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Anna Faris]

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford, and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, I never liked being told, oh, wow, you look so good for your age.

[Anna Faris]

Like, why. Why don't you just say you look.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great at any age? Every age.

[Anna Faris]

That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty. Beautiful skin at every age. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com. Okay, Sim just passed me my note sheet here. Are we supposed to.

[Producer/Host]

Yeah, this is my subtle, like, transition.

[Anna Faris]

Better at Segways. You did.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He said shut.

[Producer/Host]

This is a very strange show, by the way. It's a very strange segue. How do we go from that murder to relationship deal breakers?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, serial killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Relationship deal breaker.

[Anna Faris]

Serial killer. Okay, so imagine you're single. Deal breakers. Ready? He calls spaghetti pasghetti.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nope.

[Karen Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bye.

[Anna Faris]

He gets his balls professionally waxed every month.

[Karen Hardstark]

Well, that's polite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shave them. Waxing is. What's the word? It's torture.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe he likes it, though. That's part of it.

[Karen Hardstark]

Shave them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shave them.

[Anna Faris]

It seems like there'd be an awful lot of cuts. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone calm down and shave your balls.

[Anna Faris]

Okay, great. He thinks O.J. was framed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're, like, asking us to say yes to these questions. They're not.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, Karen, I mean, I feel like these days, with all these documentaries come out, it's hard to know. You have to really stay neutral on a lot of things.

[Anna Faris]

But I love arguing. You're gonna still go out with this fella?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's fine if he's passionately yelling about it in my face constantly, then, no, it can't be a singular passion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love nothing more than to argue loudly at a bar with people about something I don't even. I was yelling at Vince. We were talking about aliens at a bar, and he was like, I really don't like doing this. I was like, oh, my God. I'm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, are you proud of a con aliens?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Well, it depends on what I'm. What side I'm arguing. Oh, I see. But I'm pro.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're Just doing whatever. You're just arguing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, I'm pro.

[Anna Faris]

I like the idea that, you know, we're not like this singular, like, sort of abyss of loneliness. Just that there's other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You doing okay over there?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, we're all together. We're all together.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yep.

[Anna Faris]

There's other things out there. We got to believe it. Okay, during sex, he puts his finger.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Up your butt without asking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, as a surprise.

[Anna Faris]

Clarify.

[Producer/Host]

Yeah. Without asking. Come on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

First time. Are we talking, like, seventh time?

[Anna Faris]

Let's say it's fourth time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I need to be asked. I need to be asked.

[Producer/Host]

It's a weird ask.

[Anna Faris]

It is a weird ask. Georgia, may I put my index finger up your anus?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I'm gonna go pass on that.

[Anna Faris]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen's being real quiet on this one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm just thinking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm thinking about Fantasiz.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, guys, it's all sensation. I feel like our culture really makes us feel bad about stuff.

[Anna Faris]

I am so with you on that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we know your answers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Two proud yeses or whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not proud.

[Karen Hardstark]

Okay.

[Anna Faris]

He eats placenta in a shake every morning.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who's placenta? Where does he get it?

[Anna Faris]

He's got a hookup, you know, lady.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's got a guy. Or I mean, not guy like lady or animal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's wolf placenta. So then. Yes, that's fine, because then you. I'm gonna go ahead and say firm no on this one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Take vitamins. Yeah, I don't think that's the way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You have to do it. So many vitamins out there.

[Anna Faris]

Okay, guys. But, you know, there's immortality involved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is there? But you can still get hit by a car even if you eat placenta. Yes or no. I'm right.

[Anna Faris]

Nope. Nope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Anna Faris]

Not if you eat it every day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You jump right over that car.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You become immune to cars. That's amazing. Now I want to eat placenta every day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's it. Keep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want more fucking. Oh, that was fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we're back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Paschetti. Still an ick. I think we call it the ick now.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yes, that's right. It's been commodified. It's been Instagrammed. But, yeah, that one was. We all felt very strongly about that one. It was very. That's how we knew for a fact that we were all automatic friends.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was oj, friend tamed aliens, bedroom habits.

[Karen Hardstark]

So funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty. Pretty great. I could do that all day long. Deal breakers, like, especially. What Was this, almost 10 years ago? So I had Real strong opinions because I was in my 30s and that's what you fucking do.

[Karen Hardstark]

And you didn't realize how you were being perceived at all times. And people were going to tell you back on the Internet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It wasn't a private conversation between me, you, and Anna Faris. No.

[Karen Hardstark]

Well, this conversation too was really funny because it's like I remember very distinctly. I'd already made the mistake of having a situation like this where we like went all in on a podcast on someone who basically a woman was asking for advice and it involved another woman. And we were just like, yeah, she's this and that. And then that woman wrote in. And so I was like, oh, I made this terrible mistake. And she was like, I was a listener of yours and all that kind of stuff where. Where we were like, getting rid of her. She's a real. We just really opined on a person we don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Cause that's what you do on these, on podcast when you're like, that's part of the fun is, eh. I don't ever wanna block. Even though it's not true.

[Karen Hardstark]

Exactly. You're just kind of saying what you think off the dome. And then someone's like, you're literally talking about me and I'm listening to you talk about me, which is like, sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. I have a deal breaker that I think has changed since when it was a big deal to me when I got actually yelled at by someone on the Internet from it who later apologized. But it's a deal breaker would be if someone shared custody of a pet with their ex.

[Karen Hardstark]

Oh. Huh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And now that I have Cookie and I'm like, and you're getting a divorce.

[Karen Hardstark]

Please don't tell me this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, but it's like, I like, never walk away from Cookie. Wait a second. I would never walk away from Vince. First and foremost.

[Karen Hardstark]

Do not edit that out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

First and foremost, I was there to have it tonight. That's the given. Vince and I are wonderful. I don't think I'd be saying this if we weren't. We're so good. But the given part is Vince, however, like, yeah, you.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wouldn't just be like, bye, here's our dog. Right. So now I kind of get that I'm as an old as I get older.

[Karen Hardstark]

Well, it's just perspective changing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What about you? Do you have one that you now are okay with or not okay with? Is there a new deal breaker in your life?

[Karen Hardstark]

I love Paschetti. Can you imagine? I love when men. Men talk like children. No, I think it's the overall carefulness of talking on a podcast where you say all things are this way. I mean, hearing my answers in this, I was just like, you have learned some hard lessons about your big opinions.

[Anna Faris]

Where to.

[Karen Hardstark]

Just like, well, to be fair. And it's just like, who the fuck is saying that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody listens to podcasts to get both sides of the story. Like, you listen because you want that person's opinion on something.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yes. Big and loud, and they're being real in themselves. But it's like. But then if a bunch of people are paying attention, they're like, well, here's my perfect end to say, you're the worst person ever. And then we were in that place where we were just like, are we.

[Anna Faris]

The worst people ever?

[Karen Hardstark]

Like, this is terrible. This is blah, blah, blah. And it's like, now with all this perspective, I. I'm just like, yeah, I think we went back to saying our opinion, being able to make jokes. And it's like, the people that don't like us, the people that wouldn't like. The Chris Pratt is a crazy Christian comment is like, well, I'm stating a fact.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I'm not podcasting for them. No, there's other podcasts for you, and they're crazy Christian podcasts, and you can go fucking listen to them.

[Karen Hardstark]

And also, please remember the element of bots. Please remember the element of bots in all Internet interactions. No, no, no. The audience, the listener. Because I think people, the Internet, with a very sincere, like, I'm here saying my real opinion, and that's what this person with no picture and a bunch of numbers in their name is also doing. And it's like, this has. It's ruined our country, the way people have paid attention and given credit to bots.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, everyone's got an opinion and an asshole except for bots. They have neither. And you shouldn't listen to either of them. What?

[Karen Hardstark]

Wait. Okay, now we're going to head back and take another advice call with on.

[Producer/Host]

So we're gonna actually move on to an advice call right now. All right, we're gonna call Katie, and she's in LA and she's 25.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Katie (Caller)]

Hello?

[Producer/Host]

Hey, Katie, it's Tim. How are you?

[Katie (Caller)]

Hi. I'm good. How are you?

[Producer/Host]

Here's Anna.

[Anna Faris]

Hi, Katie.

[Katie (Caller)]

Hi, Anna.

[Producer/Host]

We have two really special guests here. We have Karen and Georgia from My Favorite Murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Anna Faris]

Hi.

[Katie (Caller)]

Shut the up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You shut up.

[Producer/Host]

Do you know who they are? I take it you know who they are?

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah, No, I literally only listen to like three podcasts and one is Anna's and one is my favorite murder. So yes, I definitely know who you guys are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Anna Faris]

Who are we competing with?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, who's the third?

[Katie (Caller)]

Do you know? My brother, My brother and me.

[Producer/Host]

Travis is great. Yeah, of course.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah, that's my. My third.

[Producer/Host]

Excellent. Well, Katie, tell us why your boyfriend's co worker is making you feel uncomfortable.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah, so just a little background. My boyfriend and I have been dating for five and a half years. We've known each other since preschool. We're best friends, you know, the whole thing. I moved to LA in January for a job. He moved after me. We moved in together. He got a job also, which I was really excited about. I was kind of nervous about him moving with me. I didn't want there to be any resentment if he like hated LA or anything like that. So he eventually starts kind of, you know, making friends at work and going out with co workers and things like that. And there's one guy that would just kind of make snide comments about, like, if my boyfriend and I already had plans, you know, to make dinner or something that night and he was out with them at a bar, he would say, you know, okay, guys, I gotta, you know, head home. Like, Katie and I are having dinner together. And the guy would just kind of make these comments like, oh, yeah, gotta get back and like, make dinner for your girlfriend and blah, blah, like, or, got it, you know, you're whipped or whatever. Like, she's like, I don't know, things like that. And he would make these comments in front of all of the guys that they hang out with. And then eventually he kind of started making them in front of me to like, to me directly. Directly. So, like, for example, one night we all went out to a bar for one of their birthdays and my boyfriend and I are going to leave and the guy comes up to me and, you know, like, hugs me goodbye and he's like, you know, thank you so much for actually letting him come out with us tonight and stuff like that. It was like, what the fuck, dude? Like, I mean, and it's kind of one of those things where like, I. In, in any other, like, friendship, if someone were, you know, ragging on me like, that, someone that I actually knew, I'd be like, okay, well like, off, whatever, I don't care. But like, it's kind of a situation where I don't know this person and it's like a new co worker and I don't want to like, jeopardize his friendships and things like that. And so I don't really know how to handle it, I guess is my question here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God, I have so much.

[Producer/Host]

I know. Let's just go down the line.

[Anna Faris]

No, you guys go first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, what is, what does your boyfriend say? When do you guys talk about it?

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah, so he's, he's very non confrontational. Like I would definitely say that I am the person to be like off. He's kind of the person to just ignore it and not pay attention to it. Not really, like give it life, I guess you could say. So he's kind of the one that's.

[Producer/Host]

Just like, oh, haha, I hate that so much. That makes me so angry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, my husband's like that too.

[Katie (Caller)]

Me too. Because I'm definitely confrontational. I'm like, yeah, say something back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's my first, first thought. No.

[Producer/Host]

Is he defending you at all?

[Katie (Caller)]

I mean, I don't really know. I haven't been in front of that. Like, I mean, he didn't hear it whenever the guy said it to me personally. So I.

[Producer/Host]

So he laughs it off because he, because he's afraid, like, oh, he's a professional connection and he'll laugh it off and he'll go back home. He'll just kind of take it. But inside it, I'm sure it really hurts him. And it hurts you. It's completely disputed, disrespectful. I hate this guy.

[Katie (Caller)]

Right. I guess to me, like, because whenever we've kind of talked about it one on one here, he's just kind of like, well, if I don't feel like you're controlling or that I'm whipped or we have something wrong in our relationship, then why does it matter what this random guy thinks? I guess, which I get. But at the same time it's just kind of like I don't know what to say to this dude. And I wish that I could have something to like give my boyfriend that's non confrontational. To like, like be like, hey man, maybe like gently off kind of thing. I don't know.

[Producer/Host]

No, he has to say that he has. I would tell him to. Completely off. That's what I would say. But yeah, I mean, I get it. He has a job and it's his coworker.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you ever tried cupping his face in your hands and saying, who hurt you? Do something like that? Because it really does sound like a person who is either jealous of you, like kind of into your boyfriend. There, there's a lot of possibilities going on. But the idea that be actively trying to like, pick on someone because they have a relationship is, Is very.

[Karen Hardstark]

It.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It doesn't. Is not a good sign for you as a person if that's something you feel the need to do. And I feel like there's something to be revealed in that guy. And maybe your boyfriend gets the sense that he's like one of those agro dudes that he just doesn't want to like, start anything with.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet this guy, the minute your boyfriend and I want to say, like, it bothers me that he's being called a friend and your boyfriend doesn't want to fuck with the friend and you don't want ruinous friendship, that guy's not a friend. And the minute I bet your boyfriend, who absolutely should say something to him, says something, this kid will start crying. Like, I bet he's so fragile.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think his. I don't think his feelings should be taken into consideration.

[Anna Faris]

Don't we think that, like, somebody's like, like, don't you think that he's loves her or like, lusts after her or.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, is either her or him? Yeah, there's something, I think her. There's jealousy.

[Anna Faris]

I think it's Katie. Like, I, I think that the dude is, is like, like lusting after Katie. Want.

[Producer/Host]

No, I don't, I don't agree with any of you guys. I really think that this guy is just an actual.

[Katie (Caller)]

I'm very fun and attractive. So thank you, Katie.

[Anna Faris]

I totally feel that from you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can hear it in your voice.

[Producer/Host]

Sorry, Katie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like the minute though you put like this romantic spin on it and, oh, he's listening. Like, then it's like he deserves some kind of kindness, which if he is in love with you and lusting after you, well, that's his fucking problem and he's showing it the wrong way. And that's, that's just this, this whole thing. I feel like there needs to be a way to explain to your boyfriend how much this affects you. And the minute he, he needs to know that you're the person he should be defending, not this fucking douchebag. Yeah, that would bother me a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, that kind of that young dude thing of like, oh, you're whipped, or you, you go home and eat dinner together, therefore, that's a bad thing.

[Anna Faris]

Right? Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's indicative of a mindset that that isn't healthy and isn't good. Like, that those are those kinds of guys who are like, women do this.

[Karen Hardstark]

To men or whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he's so comfortable saying it and quote unquote joking about it. That that's an. That's another thing that, that I don't know. When I'm. Anytime I'm around guys that are like that word, I just am like, I just want to get away from that person. Like, maybe that's not to defend the boyfriend so much, but maybe he's just getting a sense of like, this isn't one of those guys you want to get on the bad side of. And so it's putting him in this weird position.

[Anna Faris]

I was with a guy a long time ago in my early 20s, and his best friend told him, he's like, oh, you're so pussy whipped. And then the dude told me that, that the best friend said that. And I had such complicated feelings because it was like, well, what are you trying to get out of me that you would tell me that? And also, what the fuck is this, dude? Maybe you. I don't know. You're right, Karen though. It's that way of communicating that feels really youthful.

[Karen Hardstark]

Ye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But.

[Anna Faris]

And also. And manipulative and weird and filled with envy. Yeah, like envy and angry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it's also that thing of like, oh, I'm joking, I'm joking or hiding behind a joke, but you're taking it too seriously. But you're actually just sending a real message which is let him do what he wants and fuck off.

[Anna Faris]

Katie, I hate to say it, but. And I don't mean to like, I don't want to diminish your relationship at all because maybe you're so crazy about your boyfriend that you want to marry him and be with him forever or whatever, but I do. I think that the fact that there's a little bit of a bro before hoe culture happening here. Can I say something that's not safe for you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Something I noticed too way in the beginning that might be connected is when you said that he moved here for you and you would feel bad if he wasn't happy here. And so you don't wanna get in the way. It's not your responsibility to make sure that a decision he made is. Then it's not on you for him to be happy. So you being annoy that this person he works with, who's not even his friend, like gets upset with him isn't your responsibility. In the same way that him finding a life and being happy here after he made the decision to move here, it's not your responsibility either. Which is a hard thing to. I can't deal with that at all. I'm learning it in therapy. But like it's just none of that is your responsibility. You have yourself to worry about.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah, yeah. We have to start.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah, very true.

[Anna Faris]

Thinking a little bit more individually like collectively as women. And I was going to say a little more like men. But that also feels, that feels like we're handing over power there. But I think in general, don't you guys think that like we like it's important to impart on because for years I would think about just how my identity through men. Yeah. And, and I think it's important to sort of explore the idea of like let's not, let's not do that anymore. Let's like let's think about ourselves. Let's be selfish. You know, was my mom always said be selfish in love.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But, but self care.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah. But selfish is a good word for it.

[Anna Faris]

Well, but, but because I think we have to redefine everything like as a gender.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I also wonder if you've discussed it in this way. If you had this group of girlfriends that you were going out with and there was one that was giving him shit about hanging around and like why don't you leave her alone? And how would he feel if it was going back the day other way and not even, not even like a demand of. Answer me right now. But think of what this would be like if this exact situation was flipped and it was happening to you. Just put yourself in my shoes. Because I also think there's that thing of, you know, they say that like when there's a problem, guys freak out and they want to fix it. They don't, you know, they just, it's like he doesn't know how to fix it and it's a work thing and it's like very problematic. So his, his solution is just don't let this be a problem to you. But really I think what he needs to think about is, is you like we're saying and how it affects you. And how would it feel to him if there was somebody kind of letting him know that he wasn't welcome and that he's a bummer, but you know that hey that like your friends think he's a bummer. That's so shitty.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I feel like I, I definitely know how that situation would go because like I said, I, I don't care about telling people to fuck off or whatever, but I haven't really presented the idea to him like that like reverse like said to him specifically, you know, if this were happening to you, I would have your back kind of thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Katie (Caller)]

So yeah, that might be an interesting.

[Anna Faris]

It'll be a revealing test like with your boyfriend a little bit like how he sort of absorbs if you can be honest with him about all of this and really like have a long conversation about it. It'll be a revealing test for. For how he respects you and you respect yourself and you respect the relationship. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because there's like. The first thing I was thinking of is the fear that this guy is voicing something that your boyfriend might not be able to say. And that I think might be where the pain is coming from. And so it'd be like, if this guy stops talking then that means that whole idea is gone. But really that fear is just like, is this actually an issue here? Is this, you know, do you need. Is it. Are you unable to talk about that you want to spend less time together? So it's now we're introducing somebody that's introducing the ideas so that he's not a part of it. And I obviously don't know you and don't know anything about it, but that's. I always think about that when I in relationships focus on things that later on I realize I was just focusing on something else because I didn't want to like put my hands on what the real problem was.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah, no, I mean I've never really considered that, but that would make a lot of sense. I also have like, a lot of like. I really try very hard not to be like controlling in any way or anything like that. I mean, I don't feel like I really am anyway. But I do make it a point just because like his last girlfriend was kind of like just fucking nuts and would like like not even let him hang out with guys alone or anything like that. Like would have to just be present like with him all the time if he was going to be doing anything social.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just remember that that's. That's what he presented to you. Like if you talked to her and heard her side of the story, that might not be true. And like, you don't have to be the chill girl. Like I feel like we all try so hard to be like, I don't care, I'm so fucking chill.

[Katie (Caller)]

You know?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're allowed to have your emotions and one of those emotions sometimes is pissed the fuck off.

[Anna Faris]

Watch a ton of porn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I love porn.

[Katie (Caller)]

Oh no, I'm definitely crazy. Like I'm defin crazy girl when he knows that full on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But then sometimes it's also, like, I think a good way to approach an issue that you have instead of, you know, being pissed off is to go, my feelings are really hurt by this thing and here's why. And someone can't get. I feel like if you, someone gets mad at you for saying, I have really hurt feelings and this makes me really sad and they get mad at you for it, that's not on you.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Anna Faris]

And Katie, you know, yeah. Don't, don't be afraid of the future. You're young, you're in la, there's a lot of amazing people out there. Don't feel afraid to feel your independence, if not everything, if things aren't right. I made that mistake. I think a little bit like, feeling like I'm checking my relationship off the list. And if that would be the final advice that I could give you would be, know your worth, know your independence, know that you're young and there's so many people out there. There's so much life experience. I hope you get to live it all and experience a whole lot of people. And life is too short for you to be in relationships where you're not feeling like this isn't fully right or somebody doesn't have your back or somebody doesn't value you in every way. Because I view this as a bigger problem with you and your boyfriend than anything else. And so, so please, please take that. And, and hopefully I don't know that that's the.

[Producer/Host]

Katie, are you good with this advice?

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah, I guess.

[Anna Faris]

I mean, do you know what I'm saying, though? Like, have, have conversations.

[Katie (Caller)]

I also just was curious, like, I don't know how to, if, if he, if this guy, the co worker, were to say something to me again in person, I guess I'm just confused about how to.

[Producer/Host]

What did he say to you in person?

[Katie (Caller)]

He was like, oh, thanks so much for letting, like, your boyfriend come out tonight.

[Producer/Host]

Like, and your boyfriend didn't say anything to him?

[Katie (Caller)]

He didn't hear him. He literally said it, like, in my ear as he was hugging me.

[Anna Faris]

It sounds like he's hitting on you and it. But it also sounds like if your boyfriend doesn't understand, like, like, if you can't be honest with him and have, like, because listen, like shit, tons of people are gonna hit on you. Katie, we live in fucking la. It's gonna happen all the time. But the bigger thing, in my opinion, is the relationship with your boyfriend. And if he isn't, if he isn't fully empathetic, then that's something that's on you. Then. Then you need to examine do I want to spend time, do I want to invest time in this relationship?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And a knee to the nuts in the meantime is a great fucking way to shut someone up. You know what I'm saying?

[Anna Faris]

But I hope that you know that like. Like the co worker, truly aside, yeah, he's a creep and he wants to fuck you, but there's gonna be a gazillion of those experiences that you'll have throughout the years here. So I just think that the bigger question is the relationship with your boyfriend. And that's my very strong opinion, and I'm very unqualified to do any of this.

[Producer/Host]

Katie, thank you so much for hanging out with us tonight.

[Anna Faris]

Yeah, Katie, will you give us a.

[Katie (Caller)]

Thank you so much. Stay sexy, don't get murdered. And fuck you, Sim.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, thanks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stay sexy.

[Katie (Caller)]

Bye, guys.

[Anna Faris]

Bye.

[Producer/Host]

All right, that's going to end part one. So next week we have part two, where Anna will start off with your favorite murder. And then, Georgia, we have yours. And we have one more call, and then let's take a little break, and we'll be right back. Or next week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, we're back. I think that was pretty good advice.

[Karen Hardstark]

Me, too. Very balanced, very fair.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Hardstark]

Okay, so this episode was originally titled the MFM and Unqualified with on Affairs Crossover Part 1.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So what we would call it today, I want to say, and I think this says a lot about where we were and where we thought we were. We would actually call it the My Favorite Murder and Unqualified with on affairs crossover. But I think we, like, dumbed ourselves down a little, and we're like, oh, we're just. We're mfm. Let's just go over here.

[Karen Hardstark]

Oh, you would put every single word and the spaces and not, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What I mean, like, give ourselves credit instead of just being like, but whatever, okay. Or we were naming it today or.

[Karen Hardstark]

The Creepiest Natural History Museum, because basically that's what she said she wanted her house to feel like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. Or Most efficient way to podcast, which is what we were doing. Yeah.

[Karen Hardstark]

Her joke. Or last people you should be asking, which was my joke about her asking us questions about anything legal or judicial whatsoever. Please don't do that. And look, that was this week's rewind. We did it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We'll see you next week for the thrilling conclusion of the My Favorite murder.

[Karen Hardstark]

Yeah, there you go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Slash on a Faris is Unqualified crossover.

[Karen Hardstark]

Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Producer/Host]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Anna Faris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Anna Faris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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