Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 85: Live at the Boulder Theater

Summary

My Favorite Murder: Rewind with Karen & Georgia — Episode 85: Live at the Boulder Theater

Air Date: February 25, 2026 (originally aired September 7, 2017)
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark

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Episode Overview

In this special "Rewind" episode, Karen and Georgia revisit their live show from the Boulder Theater (2017). With fresh commentary, they reflect on their early podcast days, the Boulder/cult true crime connection, and how their approach as true crime fans has evolved over the years. Alongside playful anecdotes about altitude, fart jokes, Boulder adventures, and gifts from Murderino fans, the episode features two compelling Colorado cases—John Agru and the “Spider Man of Denver” (Theodore Edward Coneys)—and an audience hometown story of the infamous Hi-Fi Murders. Throughout, Karen and Georgia blend humor with thoughtful reflections on true crime ethics, fan boundaries, and their podcasting journey.

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1. Revisiting Boulder (02:02–15:57)

Pre-Show Memories & Altitude Antics

• Setting the Scene: Karen and Georgia share giddy memories from Boulder, Colorado—cold air, altitude sickness, and fan energy.

  • Karen recalls telling Georgia before the show, “It's a much smaller room, so just know if they're quiet doesn't mean we're doing bad. It's just smaller.” (03:08)
  • The two reminisce about hitting an oxygen tank backstage and the theatre staff offering help:
    • Georgia: “I fucking hit that oxygen tank backstage so hard...” (04:13)

• On-Stage Banter & Local Color:

  • Pandering to Boulder: "Last night we were at Denver, and you guys are cooler. Pandering, pandering, pandering." (03:45)
  • Karen and Georgia trade jokes about farting, belching, and the effects of high altitude—symptomatic of how relaxed and silly they’ve gotten on tour.
    • Georgia: “Everyone's gotten really comfortable with the farting situation...I did it and nobody laughed, so I was like, did I offend them?” (05:06, 05:21)

Fan Interactions & Boulder Adventures

• Stories about Steven (their producer), pet toys from a Murderino vet, and a “Bigfoot Necklace” found at Buffalo Exchange.
  • The necklace encounter:
    Georgia: “When you saw it, we both bent down and hit heads.” (08:15–08:25)
  • Boulder thrift store stories, mistaken shop-lifting, and fan run-ins ("shut the front door!" incident).
    • Georgia: “She had a giant SSDGM necklace on. I was like, no, she—she didn't mean it like that.” (09:31–09:38)

Reflections on Rituals, Connection, and Podcast Beginnings

• Pre-show “prayers” for luck—usually invoking absurd “deities” like Taylor Swift and Groupon:

  • Georgia: “Last night, I said, ‘dear Buddha’...I went, ‘dear Groupon.’ And then we were like, the prayer’s over, that's all we need...” (11:38–11:57)

• Visiting JonBenét Ramsey’s House:

  • A mix of excitement and discomfort about the “dark tourism” side of true crime:
    • Karen: “As we pulled Up...we thought they were richer than this.” (12:55–13:07)
    • Georgia: “I still remember the creepy feeling of just looking at this house that I had seen in pictures. And it just like was this pressing reality of, like, oh, something really, really awful happened...” (23:14–23:47)
  • Audience and personal reckoning with being ethical true crime fans:
    • Karen: “How are we participating in this?...making sure people understand...we did it and it didn't feel good. So think about that...” (22:13–22:20)

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2. First Case: The Murders by John Agru (25:58–41:02)

Presented by Georgia
Story starts at 25:58

The Case

• Victims: Susan “Susie” Becker (20), Orma Smith (94)
  • Susie found stabbed in Boulder Canyon (July 1, 1982). Orma, a librarian and neighbor of suspect John Agru, found in a nearby stream a week later.
• Suspect: John Agru, formerly convicted for stabbing his 14-year-old sister-in-law in 1966.
  • Georgia: “He had dumped his sister-in-law's body in a stream in Illinois and had been sentenced to prison...released on good behavior after 16 years.” (33:45–33:47)
  • Linked to Orma’s murder through DNA on cigarette butts found at the scene, but charged only for an attempted abduction of another woman.
• Twists:
  • Agru evaded charges, later confessed to his niece, and threatened her.
    • Georgia: “[He] said to her, ‘you know how to kill someone and get away with it? Just become their friend. And then anything police get they can't use against you because you're their friend.’” (36:10–36:20)
  • The niece’s tip led to the case’s reopening. DNA confirmed Agru’s involvement, but he died of an overdose before prosecution (2010).

Commentary & Reaction

• Georgia and Karen reflect on lost justice—and the “dangerous neighbor” trope.
  • Georgia: “At least he's dead.” (39:52)
  • Karen: “He self medicated himself off this planet.” (39:52)

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3. Second Case: The Spider Man of Denver (Theodore Edward Coneys) (41:26–84:57)

Presented by Karen
Story starts at 41:26

The Case

• Victim: Phil Peters, 73-year-old widower in Denver, murdered October 1941 in his locked home.
• Mystery: Lockdown house, whispers of haunting after the murder, and repeated inexplicable noises and ghostly sightings by neighbors.
• Discovery:
  • After a neighbor sees a face in the window, police finally catch Theodore Coneys living in a tiny attic crawlspace, where he hid for 9 months, eating stolen food and sneaking through the house at night.
• The Murder: Coneys, a sickly transient acquainted with Phil years prior, had broken in for food and decided to secretly live in the attic (small enough “that a man would have to be a spider to stand it so long”), and killed Phil Peters after being caught robbing the fridge.
• Investigation:
  • Police found a “filthy, emaciated man” and a stinking, makeshift attic home with an ironing board for a bed.
    • Karen: “It's got a bed that's made of an ironing board...he's got a bunch of...torn up magazines everywhere...” (67:01)
• Coneys’ Mindset:
  • Karen, quoting Coneys: “Then I got bold, and I used to shadow him from room to room. It was sort of a game. Gave me a thrill. It was the first time in my life I'd ever had anyone at my mercy.” (80:30)
• Outcome:
  • Coneys confesses, is dubbed "The Spider Man of Moncrieff Place", and dies in prison after 23 years.

Host Banter & Highlights

• Karen’s obsession with the case (“This is what I'm in it for right here.” 41:32), imagining a film adaptation with vintage horror/slapstick, auditioning each other, and casting "Bill Pullman" or "Tommy Lee Jones" as Phil.
• Commentary on 1940s house culture, and the absurdity of women being unnamed in historic news articles.
  • Karen: “She was always Mrs. Peters. Yeah, it was 1940. Let's all be grateful that we live in 2017.” (50:16)

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4. Hometown Story: The Hi-Fi Murders (88:02–95:45)

Told by audience member Megan
Story starts at 88:02

• Brief: Gruesome 1974 Ogden, Utah, hi-fi shop murders—involving robbery, torture (Drano poured into victims’ mouths and ears), and senseless violence.
  • Megan: “So, 1974...Shelly Ainsley...works with Stanley Walker...these three bastards come in and try to kill these people. They tie them up. They dump Drano down their ears.” (89:08–89:30)
• Outcome: Most victims died, but survivor Courtney Naisbitt became an advocate for victims’ rights (though he died in 2002).
• Karen and Georgia, with Megan, react with horror, dark humor, and supportive applause for telling such a hard-hitting case.

Corrections & Clarifications (93:54–95:45)

• Sherry, not Shelly, was the victim’s name.
• Two people survived: Courtney Naisbitt and Stanley’s father, Orin Walker.
• The getaway driver did serve time, but later died by suicide in 1992.
  • Georgia: “Megan mentioned the getaway driver still being out there...that's not correct. Keith Leon Roberts...in 1992, he took his own life also.” (94:36)

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5. Reflections, Ethics, and Podcast Growth (20:40–25:50; 95:45–98:08)

• On being new true crime fans in 2017, podcasting without a “rulebook,” and growing to understand boundaries and empathy:

  • Karen: “We were trying to figure out who we were as true crime fans, because there isn't one way...the rules are obvious...Now the rules are obvious and...we all understand the assignment. But 2017...the way we did it wasn't a thing yet.” (21:47–22:57)

• On the evolution of the show from “innocent” beginnings to a full-scale network, the uniqueness of the Murderino community, and the responsibility that comes with a bigger platform.

• New segment suggestion: Naming episodes after weird snippets — e.g., “Dear Groupon” or “Sailor Salute."

  • Karen: "If you were naming it today based on some ridiculous ass thing we said...maybe we would call it, well, Dear Groupon..." (95:48–95:58)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Georgia (on being ethical fans): “It does matter...making sure people understand, hey, we did it and it didn't feel good. So think about that.” (22:20)
• Karen (on Spider Man case): “This is what I'm in it for right here. A creepy guy in the attic.” (41:42)
• Karen (on true crime evolution): “It truly is like someone came up and gave us, like, acid and then was like, okay, go walk down that path. See what happens.” (23:03)
• Georgia (on boundaries after JonBenét tour): “Someone was like, are you going to go to her grave? And I think we said absolutely not...we now know what the boundary is.” (25:16)
• Georgia (to Megan): “You are amazing...That's how we do it.” (93:40–93:45)
• Karen (Spider Man of Denver): “A man would have to be a spider to stand it so long up in that place.” (84:56)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:02 — Begin Boulder show rewind; fan gifts, pre-show rituals.
• 12:13–25:50 — JonBenét Ramsey house reflections, Boulder as true crime fan experience.
• 25:58 — Georgia’s story: John Agru case.
• 41:26 — Karen’s story: “The Spider Man of Denver.”
• 88:02 — Hometown story: The Hi-Fi Murders (audience participation).
• 93:54 — Corrections/clarifications on the Hi-Fi Murders.
• 95:45–98:08 — Reflections, episode-naming games, closing thoughts on Boulder.

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Tone & Style

• Laid-back, irreverent, and warmly self-deprecating.
• Signature Karen & Georgia humor—swapping between silly tangents (celebrity sightings, Buffalo Exchange mishaps, fart jokes) and sensitive, thoughtful asides about victim empathy and responsible fandom.
• Willingness to admit past missteps, learn, and advocate for “doing better”—a recurring theme in this reflective “rewind.”

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In Summary

This “Rewind” episode delivers a nostalgic, self-aware look back at one of MFM’s earliest live shows. Karen and Georgia’s commentary accentuates their growth from “baby” podcasters to leading voices in the true crime fan community, never shying from self-critique or laughter—even at their own expense. True crime is treated with empathy, boundaries, and a community spirit, and no matter how dark the tales get, their mutual support and spirited improvisation keep things vibrant:

• Karen: “We try.” (25:49)
• Georgia: “We do. We'll still fuck up and we'll try to learn still.” (25:50)
  In other words: Stay sexy, don’t get murdered, and don’t forget to laugh along the way.

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SSDGM

Transcript

[Karen Kilgarra]

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[Georgia Hartstart]

Not a chance.

[Karen Kilgarra]

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[Georgia Hartstart]

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[Karen Kilgarra]

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[Georgia Hartstart]

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[Karen Kilgarra]

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[Georgia Hartstart]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Karen Kilgarra]

My favorite. Hello.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That's right, it's Wednesday. And that means that we are recapping our old shows with all new commentary and updates and. And insights.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Today, we're looking back at episode 85, which we named. You're not going to believe this. We named it live at the Boulder Theater.

[Karen Kilgarra]

How. How do we come up with these things? So, this is our live show in, you guessed it, Boulder, Colorado. And this episode originally came out September 7, 2017.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Aw, cute little 2017.

[Karen Kilgarra]

So long ago. Little baby.

[Georgia Hartstart]

All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 85.

[Karen Kilgarra]

What's up, Boulder? What's up, honey?

[Georgia Hartstart]

I was like, see, they don't like it when I do it.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's only when you do it. So embarrassing that we didn't turn our own fucking mics on.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We've never had to.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I mean, so well done. Yeah, reset it. We reset it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We did it. Ever since the one time I walked out here and like, what's up? And pointed at the upper and there was nobody there. I now go, hey. Just to make. There was no.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Well, here's. Oh, they're here.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, they're fucking here. Yeah, and they're here for revenge. I actually told Georgia earlier. I was like, so just be aware. It's like a. It's a much smaller room, so just know if they're quiet doesn't mean we're doing bad. It's just smaller. And we step out and you may have popped my eardrum. I'm not sure.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Not again.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yes.

[Georgia Hartstart]

The show won't go on if our eardrums are popped.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Or would it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Or it would be really funny.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Or it would be. To see if we could Loud and

[Georgia Hartstart]

quiet at the same time. Last night, we were at Denver, and you guys are cooler. Pandering, pandering, pandering. Hey, this is my favorite bird of the podcast. That's Karen Kilgarra. I'm Georgia Hartstart. Who didn't know who was who. I didn't. I'm happy to learn you are so

[Karen Kilgarra]

high on altitude sickness right now.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, my God. I fucking hit that oxygen tank backstage so hard. And thank you to the Boulder theater for coming up. And I heard someone needed oxygen. Come on down. I was like, oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgarra]

They actually said. We heard someone was lightheaded. Do they need oxygen? And she's like, yeah, I'll have some oxygen.

[Georgia Hartstart]

My God. Cause I woke up from a nap, which I'm usually like, nap.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Hey.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And then I was just like, I don't know what I miss.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We're gonna turn into. It's gonna be a blue velvet situation in, like, a month. Or just like. Could we have our oxygen tanks on stage with us, please? Yeah, I know we're below sea level. It doesn't matter. We do what we want.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We've been bl. Everything that's happened on the. What's it called?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Altitude.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Altitude.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. It's fine. We're fine.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Since we've been here, some real funny shit. That is not because of altitude. My shoes hurt. Altitude.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Your shoes hurt? There's been. Everyone's gotten really comfortable with the farting

[Georgia Hartstart]

situation, which is just belching.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I mean, we used to be so modest, and it's just like, air has to come out of me and we can't pretend anymore.

[Georgia Hartstart]

But I gotta say, it's a little bummed because, like, sometimes I really want my. I, like, fart in a funny way to be like, hey, and, like, punctuate it. And I did it. And, like, nobody laughed, so I was like, did I offend them?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Sorry. Wait a second. You, like, intro your fart like a hey and then a fart?

[Georgia Hartstart]

No, I say a dumb joke and then I'm like punk. Like, you know, just like, to be

[Karen Kilgarra]

like you physically punctuate the joke.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Only if I have to fart.

[Karen Kilgarra]

You do like a. I do it on purpose. You do, like an unspoken pull my finger sometimes. How come I don't fucking know that?

[Georgia Hartstart]

I don't know. Maybe you don't. I've done it many times in front of you and Steven. Steven. Oh, Karen. Steven is at home right now. I figured you guys would know.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We don't.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We leave him at home.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He's not that great. It's mostly the hair. You guys don't fall for it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We don't tell him he's coming, and he's, like, waiting outside with a suitcase and then we just go pick him up. It's not like that.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Maybe next time, Stephen.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oops, we forgot. It's like Home Alone, except he's crying the whole time. Not dead in the heart with, like, Macaulay Culkin. And he's just like, I don't care.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Home Alone with, like, a mustache and cats, which would be a better film. And you know it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

He has a pet cube, which basically means you can spy on who's ever taken care of your cat. And it was like a laser thing and he's on it. And he, like, set up, basically, a hidden camera in my house against himself.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, he nanny cammed himself.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Wow.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And I think he can put it online so maybe you can watch cats sleep at some point.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Is this a new business of yours where you're like. And for $9.95, you too can watch Stephen and my cats sit.

[Georgia Hartstart]

One cent goes to the aspca. One cent of every. Just one cent total.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Just one cent will go to every.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We had a. We had a vet come to the meet and greet yesterday. It was so lovely. And she gave us a ton of pet, like, cool pet toys, which was so nice.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That you now have to jam into your suitcase. They're the size of dogs.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I like that you're just bragging about presents now. You're like, hey, so we have some pretty big vet presents right now.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So why not?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Right now?

[Georgia Hartstart]

I really.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Well, if it's bragging time, then I would like to brag about my Bigfoot necklace, which I. I hear.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So it's funny on different levels.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, go ahead and tell three of them. Well,

[Georgia Hartstart]

one is that it's Bigfoot. So you're like, I spotted Bigfoot. You know, so many people are gonna say that.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That's funny.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, it's also funny. Cause it's fucking awesome. And it's also funny because when you saw it, we both bent down and hit heads.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Forgot about that part. Oh, fuck. I was like. When I do things like that, where it's like I kind of hate everything. So when I see something I'm so overcome with, like, how could this actually be happening? I go blind to everything else around me. So I was just like a Bigfoot necklace. Like, really lead with my skull. Poor George. Just like, oh, look, a tiny little. And then I headbutt and I had

[Georgia Hartstart]

glasses on, so they kind of like stabbed me in the top. But then it was like, worth it. It's a great necklace. It was worth it.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I think it was worth it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's okay. It's okay.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And then. So it was at Buffalo Exchange because this, like, lovely girl said, you guys should go to Buffalo Exchange.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, everyone loves Buffalo. Exchan Exchange.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I think they work there. And so we went. And we're walking in the front door, and this girl who's standing there looking like she works there yells at us,

[Karen Kilgarra]

shut the front door. So I'm like. Cause it was like there's five of us all together, and I was second in. So I was like, whoops, okay. And I just.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Cause it's hot outside.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Kept walking.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We were kind of like, fuck, we're

[Karen Kilgarra]

already in trouble in Buffalo Exchange. We just got.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And then as I'm walking by, I see she has a giant SSDGM necklace on.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And I was like, no, she.

[Georgia Hartstart]

She didn't mean it like that. Come back.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It was as if she had placed herself in the doorway of the first place we went in Denver to just, like, shut the front door. It's very bizarre.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I think she did it. I think she's been stalking us. Cause she was like, here, I have a present that I just bought you. Like she had bought me. I think she knew we were coming.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I wouldn't accuse that on stage. I would. I wouldn't float that theory.

[Georgia Hartstart]

She's lovely and talented.

[Karen Kilgarra]

How would she know where we were?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Cause she told us, go to Buffalo Exchange. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

But then what she got. She went There opening and was like, you know what? 10:00am I just. I'll stand here in the doorway. It worked with my necklace on. You're right. It did work. So I'm just saying anything is possible.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah,

[Karen Kilgarra]

thanks. That's my new song. Anything is possible. If you're wearing a bigfoot necklace, that's in parentheses after that part.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And you expect the wor. Like, they're yelling at you to shut the front door.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Shut the front door. I just take as a direction.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I yell at you.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's like. It's. There's all the air conditioning in here. Shut the fucking door.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, you're letting the air conditioning out. We were gonna talk about our prayer from last night.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We like to do a little prayer before we walk out on stage, but

[Georgia Hartstart]

before you applaud us Christians. It's not. It's a. It's an abomination.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's not. Look, we just tried to access a being that we think might help us do this correctly. For all of you who have waited so long and care so much and send us pictures of yourselves standing around all day and night waiting for the show to start.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

So last night, we want to, like,

[Georgia Hartstart]

connect, because we've been, like, running around backstage, and all these people are giving me oxygen, and we're just like, okay.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's about you and me getting the defibrillator. It's all crazy shit back there.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So we wanted to be like, all right, you, me, you, me, you, me. And then we just start saying words.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We get like, deer. And then we pick a deity that we enjoy or, like, a person we like or just somebody fun. Taylor Swift. And last night, I said, dear Buddha, but there was a. That video was playing and Georgia said.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I went, dear Groupon.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And then we were like, the prayer's over. That's all we need to say. We're ready to do the show.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That was it. Tonight was a lot more heartfelt.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. We both journaled and feeling pretty good.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I feel like suddenly I don't want to talk about the house we went to today.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, are you kidding me? Why do you do that? It was overcome

[Georgia Hartstart]

why we're here. We went to Mark and Mindy's house. No, that's not true.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I mean, it's where every Murderino in the nation wants to be for a minute and a half.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Drive by. And everyone goes quiet. And we go, not about you. Not better than us. We all stared in silence and went, I thought it'd be bigger.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And, like, as we pulled Up. We're like looking around and we're kind of like, hmm, we thought they were richer than this.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Snobs. Immediate snobbery.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Does everyone around here own a plane? Because this does not seem to be Ramsay level richness at all.

[Georgia Hartstart]

They should sell the plane and get a bigger house.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That's right.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Then you're rich or a landscaper or. Don't be horrible. And then that's what I said. I'd be like that.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We sat there for a second and then George was taking pictures and I was like, I don't know why, but I feel like I need to look down. And then I started getting obsessed with all the people that were out watering their lawns and stuff. Suddenly there was like a man watering his lawn and a mother playing with her child. And I was just like, oh, no, this is so dark.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And then he sprayed us in the face through my roll down window and

[Karen Kilgarra]

was like, get out of here, you kids.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You grapes. What is wrong with you?

[Karen Kilgarra]

But it was worth it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

It was worth it.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's just. I mean, what was going on with that fucking family, dude?

[Georgia Hartstart]

And then we found out. We found out they like, cemented off the basement.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yes. Our Uber driver told us that.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. And we were just like, the best. Well, that's why you couldn't sell it, because the monsters who would buy it want the basement.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I just love that. I bet you like 89% of the Ubers you get into in Boulder. If you were like, hey, so what do you know about the Ramsey household? They'd be like, well, let's go through a list of things. My mom was the secretary at the.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Like, fuck. Yeah. Like total fuck.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Total fuck.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Well, on that note, should we sit down?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, yeah,

[Georgia Hartstart]

this is a nice little setup. Yesterday. I don't want to throw the theater under the bus, but. Oh, are you caressing the.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I just felt like I needed to have a tactile moment. It's nice. My manicure matches my chair, so.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, it's like, you're meant to be fate. That's your soulmate. You wanna go back? Okay. Yesterday at our show, they brought a high top table, like from the smoking patio, is what Karen said. Just threw it on stage. And that was.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Was just one of those ones that like, I've been like three pitchers of beer drunk on so many smoking patios. And you're suddenly you're leaning on one of those, like a wrought iron table and kind of stick your fingernails into the holes as you're like, what am I doing with my life?

[Georgia Hartstart]

But Then they're the ones that are so wobbly, and you're the one who keeps sloshing beer out of the pitcher. Karen, stop leaning on this. Like, I can't stand up on my own.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, fuck. Speaking of, really quickly back to Buffalo Exchange, where everything happened. I. While I was in among the gowns, somehow I have this thing where everyone smile. I don't know if it's a muscle spasm or if it's consciously. I don't want myself to drink as much coffee as I drink. But every once in a while, like, I don't know, if you do this, you just kind of squeeze your cup and it just flies out of your hand.

[Georgia Hartstart]

But anyway, I walk around a large rack of dresses and just see Karen standing near just a pile of coffee.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It looked like a small pond. And it. It was honestly, time slowed down as it left my hand. And it was like a full rotation upside down and coffee. I saw it all. There should have been Wagner playing underneath it. It was so fucking dramatic and horrifying among all these gorgeous pieces. And I'm just like, I'm gonna throw some shit Starbucks around here if no one minds. And I think I was like, run.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I told you to run. Now these two lovely, like, tweets came over and cleaned it up.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I walked over and turned myself in. I was just like, we have a major problem by dresses. We.

[Georgia Hartstart]

But don't worry, it didn't get on Karen's clothes. It only got on Adrian, Karen's longtime friend Adrienne's clothes. That's right.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I basically threw a cup of coffee

[Georgia Hartstart]

on Adrienne after you told her to change that morning, right?

[Karen Kilgarra]

No, Adrienne and I. Here's what it is, okay? Adrienne and I, and this has happened all our lives, my sister Laura and I, don't we look alike? Like, you can tell we're sisters, but we don't look alike. Look alike. Laura's best friend Adrienne, since she was 11 years old, and I look like sisters.

[Georgia Hartstart]

It's creepy how much they. For someone who's not sisters and who's best friends with your sister, it's creepy.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I have not lived in, like, my hometown for a really long time. So anytime my sister and Adrienne go to a party, people come up to Adrienne and go, are you the comedian? And then she's like, no, she's very unfriendly. It's her brand. And last night in Denver, we were dressed almost exactly alike. Our hair is very similar. And she said, so Many people were walking up and would get like, a foot away, thinking that they had seen me before the show, and then they'd be like, no. And then walk away. Imagine how that feels to be on the receiving end of, like, abject disappointment 11 times before the big show starts. And I was like, did you tell

[Georgia Hartstart]

them you're the sister? And they're like, no. And I'm like, oh, I'm the only one who just needs constant attention to praise. Everyone else is like, no. Why would I tell them that?

[Karen Kilgarra]

The two of them are like, we hate attention and we refuse praise. So this morning when we got up, I got dressed, I took a shower, got dressed, came out of the bathroom.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Are you bragging that you took a shower? What's that? Are you bragging that you took a shower?

[Bowen Yang]

I showed you.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Totally bathed, stem to stern. Thank you. Yes. But when I came out of the bathroom, Adrienne and I had the same outfit on again. And she got so angry that we once again were dressed alike that she changed her shirt just in a rage. And then an hour later, I threw a cup of coffee on it accidentally, so.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So was it accidental will be the question that just sticks in our mind.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I mean, it's just something to talk

[Georgia Hartstart]

about at therapy next time when you and Adrienne go together.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That's right. I go to therapy with everyone I know. It's necessary. What's up? Should we. Do you want to talk about.

[Georgia Hartstart]

What else do you want to talk about?

[Karen Kilgarra]

I don't know. I want to talk about. I like to talk about junior high.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, man, what a time it was. We have some slides, actually. Look what Stephen made. Steven, like, made our slides look legit. He's earning his keep.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That was for you, Steven. He listens to all these recordings at home after the fact.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Stephen, cut that out. Cut that.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Cut all this out.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Cut the compliment out.

[Karen Kilgarra]

The compliment goes. Cheering for you goes. And we're back in.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And we're back. You know, I didn't give a shit anymore. And I was having fun at that point. Yeah, you know, I could tell. I stopped being nervous at that point.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, yeah. Completely. Like, you trusted yourself. You trusted the process. I mean, in 2017, the innocence that we did all of this with and the kind of abashed, kind of like, hey, let's see what happens. I mean, like, that was the joy of it for me, because it was like a standup gig that was going to go well, right?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And that is, like, not to say that we're always great. It's to Say that even moderate nice clapping is a hundred times better than most of the standup gigs I've done in my life. So I was just like, what a dream come true.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And then we would kind of just get high off of oxygen from there.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Jesus, I love it. I was like, I woke up and I didn't know where I was. It's like, oh, dear. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Real early days for us.

[Georgia Hartstart]

But I do remember Boulder being such a charming, friendly city. I really, really liked it there. Like, to this day, when someone's like, do you like Boulder? Have you been Whatever. I'm like, it's fucking darling. I just have such good memories of it.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, me too.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And we went to fucking Jean. That feels dirty at this point, Right? For sure. I mean, I think we don't do that.

[Karen Kilgarra]

This is the kind of thing where I think that we were trying to figure out who we were as true crime fans, because there isn't one way. And I think this is kind of what everybody knows now, but wasn't totally evident at the time, where it's like the thing of, I don't know, look at pictures. I don't want to listen to 911 calls.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I'm never gonna email a fucking serial killer in prison. But then we went to JonBenet's house, and that felt like a step too far.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. Really? It was just driving down a street, looking at a thing. But we were just like, how are we participating in this?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And it does matter. And also making sure people understand, hey, we did it. And it didn't feel good. So think about that. Cause you might think you have to do this.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Right. And it is a good point of, like, we didn't know what I like the. Like, we didn't know what kind of true crime like, fans we were. Cause it wasn't a thing yet. Yes. Like, the way we did it wasn't a thing yet. We kind of, like, made it up as we go along. And now the rules are obvious and that, like, we all understand the assignment. But 2017, that's a year in to podcast our pod or a year and a half in.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's so early.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

For what? We were also for kind of the opportunity.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I don't know. So it truly is like someone came up and gave us, like, acid and then was like, okay, go walk down that path. See what happens. That's looking back after this long. It's what it feels like.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. And they gave us a rule book. And we're like, great. And open it. It was fucking Blank. And we're just like, well, what do we. But I will say, since we did go there, I still remember the creepy feeling of just looking at this house that I had seen in pictures. And it just, like, was this pressing reality of, like, oh, something really, really awful happened to a very innocent girl here. And it feels bad being here. It feels bad if the neighbors look out and see that we're like us, that we're doing that. I don't want to be identified as someone who does that.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yes.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So, yeah, I remember it very well.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Me, too. And I also think it's that we're doing this and we're looking and da, da, da. And we're pointing at the house. And it's like, it's still a cold case. I think there's that piece, too, where it's like, the interest is not the house, the interest is not the street. It's like, what. People have to kind of refocus sometimes. Refocus the interest. It's still compelling because we don't know what happened. Like, we need to know what happened because a very violent, horrible thing happened. What if it happened again after?

[Georgia Hartstart]

It's like, I think we're so used to seeing it on TV and in movies where you can get a spoiler, you can rewind it, and then suddenly the actual house being there, it's like you can almost. You still feel the horror of what happened without any answers.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Right.

[Georgia Hartstart]

It's just like. It's just. It felt bad and really sad and.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And I think that distance piece where. And we've talked about this before, the distance of these cases from us and our lives was so far away when the podcast started.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And then just slowly but surely, we came right up to it, where we're like, oh, that's right. Like, now we have a responsibility. Or now we have, like, we need a point of view here. That is the good point of view. We need to do the thing that's any option is available right now. We need to be conveying the one that, like, is best for all of us kind of idea, which is, like, wild to consider.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Well, you know, I think later in this exact tour, we went to Georgia, to Atlanta, and someone was like, are you going to go to her grave? And I think we said, absolutely not. Like, having had this experience.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Right.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Was just like, we now know what the boundary is. And, like, let's try to stick on the right side of that.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. Let's keep our eyes out for that. Where it's like, this is. What are we actually doing all of that is good. It's good to ask yourself, yeah, the answer we have is we don't know. We will do our best.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We try.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We do.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We'll still fuck up and we'll try to learn still.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, that's right. All right, should we get into your story now?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We're about to listen to Georgia's story about John Agrew. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.

[Georgia Hartstart]

There's a huge difference between having a hobby and making it a career.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And one of them involves invoices.

[Georgia Hartstart]

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[Karen Kilgarra]

Squarespace lets you showcase consultations, events and experiences on a customizable website and get paid with professional invoices and online payments.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Built in scheduling and email tools help manage bookings and communication without juggling multiple platforms.

[Karen Kilgarra]

You can offer courses, videos, blogs or memberships directly on your site, all behind a paywall.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You control, set one time prices or subscriptions and create recurring revenue through your Squarespace website.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Go to squarespace.com murder for a free

[Georgia Hartstart]

trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Goodby.

[Bowen Yang]

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[Georgia Hartstart]

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[Karen Kilgarra]

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[Matt Rogers]

This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your WI fi was more than just WI fi? What if your wi fi made everything in your whole house just work together better?

[Matt Rogers]

Well, Xfinity WI fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best most elite high performing tech.

[Bowen Yang]

Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping. Right? Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same Moment. Well, you can boost the WI fi to your device with Xfinity.

[Matt Rogers]

And have you ever asked yourself, what if my WI fi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI fi has parenting skills, even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like, don't worry. I'll monitor the WI fi.

[Bowen Yang]

It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back.

[Matt Rogers]

Xfinity. Imagine that.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Should we. Who's first tonight? Shall we get into the shit? Let's. But let's take the necessary moment of you turning to your friend that you brought who doesn't know anything about the murder. Cause your friend who was in sess, got sick, and you were like, danny, will you go with me, please? I don't want to go alone. I have anxiety. And they're like, I'll go. What is it? It's just a cool comedy show. Now you can let them know that here's when the horror starts. Yeah. And we are not bad people.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We're good people talking about bad things. Ready?

[Georgia Hartstart]

And it's your town, so it's your fault. Thank you. All right, Boulder, you guys had. I want to say I was impressed and then got stressed out because you don't have a ton ton.

[Karen Kilgarra]

You have, like, the old big one. You have kind of the queen queen,

[Georgia Hartstart]

which we can't do. Obviously.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We did it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. And then. All right. But you also have. You also have a guy named John Agru. I think I'm saying that right. Okay. So I got a lot of this from a dude named Kurt Mitchell from Denver Post Cold Case section. What's funny?

[Karen Kilgarra]

I was just thinking that maybe he's our Uber driver, this dude Kurt Mitchell, that drove us here.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I wrote this on the way over because he wrote this whole thing, and he was contacted by someone in the case to, like, help solve it, which is pretty fucking. I want someone to please do that for us, but also solve it yourself and then just say that we did it. All right. Can I keep stalling?

[Karen Kilgarra]

No, you have to jump in.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay. On July 1, 1982, two fishermen who were looking for a good spot to fish in Boulder Canyon discovered, not a mannequin, the decaying body of a young woman who was covered only by a towel. She had 11 knife wounds in her chest and two in her neck. There was a back. Her backpack was nearby. And police were able to identify her based on that as Susan Susie Becker. Susie is her nickname. She's 20 years old. Susie was last seen on the morning of June 20, 1982. So like a little less than a month before. She was raised Catholic. She liked to listen to

[Karen Kilgarra]

music.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, but music, let's call it what you got.

[Karen Kilgarra]

You know what I mean?

[Georgia Hartstart]

It's Rastafarian, so I'm not gonna be able to pronounce that.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That reggae?

[Georgia Hartstart]

No, Rastafarian I can pronounce. It's the word Nya Bingi.

[Karen Kilgarra]

If anyone can do it, it's you guys. Boulder.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, I think she was kind of like a hippie free spirit.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Y.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Like we have. Oh, we have a photo of her. Can you put up the photo of her, please? There you go. Yeah, she was like a sweet little baby angel. Hippie free spirit. Okay.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So I think she.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I take it back down now.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Let's not bum everyone up too much.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Let's not then.

[Georgia Hartstart]

How about let's bum everyone out now then. A week after Susie's body was discovered, a second body was found nearby. 94 year old Orma Smith.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Mm mm.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And you can put her picture up a retired librarian who went missing days earlier. Look at her. That's everyone's grandma from the seventies. A retired librarian. She had gone missing days earlier. Was discovered face down in a stream in Big Elk's meadow. Big Elk Meadows. Near SD Park. Near SD Park.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, is that it? Is that it? One big sound.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Estes Park.

[Karen Kilgarra]

What are you doing? Just keep going.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Thank you. On July. What?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Nothing.

[Georgia Hartstart]

What? There's a lot of S's on July 9, 1982. So two bodies in like eight days. If I can do the math. Okay. Investigators got a break in the case on July 15, 1982 when a 50 year old man named John argue. It says it's Agru. Agru. Agrus. Agrew. Agro. They don't know I know and I usually don't listen. So a man threatened this guy, John threatened a 26 year old university of Colorado student with a knife. But she had escaped and he was caught minutes later. So I think like she was like fuck you and like neighbors must have been like, let's get him. I'm guessing he was caught minutes later and arrested. John was on parole. He had moved to Colorado in 1982 after getting out of prison. In 1966, John had been convicted of fatally stabbing his 14 year old sister in law, Susan Marino. Sounds like a dick. He had dumped his sister in law's body in a stream in Illinois and had been sentenced to prison for a term of 20 to 50 years. Guess how many he got?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Two.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You're all wrong. But he was released on good behavior after 16 years. Cause he was a good guy. In prison, John turned out to be Orma, the 94 year old librarian's neighbor and a close acquaintance of hers. She was a super friendly woman and she would often let John come in and use her phone to make calls. And he drove her around town on errands. He drove her around town on errands like they were buzz. He obviously became the main subject. And when they learned also that he would go hiking in Boulder Canyon. So where the bodies were found. So John refused to speak to authorities. And prosecutors determined there wasn't enough evidence to file charges against him in either Suzie or Orma's murders. But the attempted kidnapping charges were filed in the case of the coed who had escaped escape. And he was convicted of attempted abduction. He remained in prison until 1989 and then 21 years later. 21. Yeah. John's niece, Cora Amy. Amy, who lives in Jolette, Illinois.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Joliet.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Jolie I. Joliet, Illinois, became terrified of her, of her uncle, because he. He had told her that he had killed an old woman in Colorado.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Just chatting.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I bet they were drunk, right?

[Karen Kilgarra]

How old was she? Were they.

[Georgia Hartstart]

She was a grown up, I think.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. So she got terrified of him because he said this and he seemed to regret telling her that. Yeah. The morning after, you know, the morning after, like, oh, what did I say to John? Did I tell Megan she should get her lip waxed? Probably no one to tell people they should.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Or it was like the moment after where he's like, I killed this little one. Ooh, dang it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So he started just like, stand outside her apartment at all hours of the night and threaten her. So she got a restraining order against him. And she said he had said to her, you know how to kill someone and get away with it? Just become their friend. And then anything police get they can't use against you because you're their friend. It was okay for you to be there. It's like you were.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's faulty logic. Yeah, he's confusing a couple rules there.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Or a couple moral fucking basics like don't kill your friends.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. What did he watch growing up?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Because Just. Just fucking.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Just Barney. Just constant Barney.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, a lot. So she called crime reporter Kirk Mitchell, the dude whose article I got this from, of the Denver Post, and she asked if he would be interested in writing a cold case blog about the unsolved murder case of her aunt. So she gave him all this information about him and how he had killed his sister in law all these years ago and kind of was like, here's all this information. Can you believe this person is not in prison? Clearly he did these things. And it was 21 years later. So because of this, they reopened the case. And she called the Lemire County Sheriff's Office Lemur. Larimer.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's obviously Larimer.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Larimer. What's nice about having a smaller crowd is that you can hear what they're screaming at you. Which I appreciate because now I actually fix these.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I mean, that we should have done a dry run through.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

With pronunciations only.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Why? Then we wouldn't be this podcast anymore. She told investigators about her uncle's murder confession, and they had always thought he was a subject in all these other crimes. So they reopened the investigation. Awesome. Way to go, Curt Mitchell. I feel like. I feel like he's kind of a hero in this, you know, but he. Fuck. Yeah. Okay. Investigators learned that he. That John had several purses and personal items that had belonged to him to women, but his family had already thrown all the items away. So, I mean, I think they were just like, he went to prison. Let's get rid of all this.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Well, let's get rid of his purses. Yeah, they were just like, everyone gets

[Georgia Hartstart]

rid of people's purses when they go to prison.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He won't use them when he gets out. They'll be out of style. They're thinking to themselves, totally.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay, so DNA extracted from cigarettes that had been picked up near Smith's body. Thank God they fucking saved them. I definitively connected John to her death. But before authorities had a viable case, he died of an overdose of medications.

[Karen Kilgarra]

What kind of medication?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Medications.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Just. Just some medications.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Pick them. Oxygen. An oxygen tank.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, no.

[Megan]

Fuck.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I did an oxygen tank. And heroin. Oh, my God, I'm screwed.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Why would you combine like that? It doesn't. It doesn't make sense.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And it was ruled an accidental death. So Larimer county authorities officially closed Smith's case though the Sweet angel in 2010. But they're reviewing murders committed in Illinois in the 50s and 60s before John grew was convicted of murder. And they're looking at murders in Colorado between January of 82 until he was arrested in August of 82, as well as murders near Joliet, Illinois from the time he was released from prison in 89. Becker's murder. Public announcement was made that the case was closed. So he never got. They had a suspect. He did it, but he never got brought to justice. And that's a bummer, but at least he's dead. Yeah. This was John Agruw.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He self medicated himself off this planet.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Thank you, Jesus.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, yeah. That's crazy.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

So they think he did other murders before he had to have.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, yeah, let's. That's him.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Hold on.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, hello. That's Stephen, like 100. I'm sorry. If you part that hair and grow it out on one side and put some nice curls into it and put a cat in his hands, it's over.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And constantly be smiling and constantly be

[Karen Kilgarra]

nice to people and just be so nice and never touch knives and not want to hurt harm. One thing.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, that's him.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Dead. Dead match.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, yeah. So if anyone wants his, I feel like they just need to go back and look at his like, phone book and be like, these were his friends. Let's call them and see if they're still alive.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, just. Just start on the phone tree.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And you're like, hey, here's the thing. Did that guy ever come at you with a knife or anything? Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this one?

[Georgia Hartstart]

There actually aren't any updates on this case. And we checked our email and there's no hometowns, which I'm really surprised by because it seems like a big one.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, Send us some in. If you know more about this case or you have anything to tell us, you should email.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We always want to hear your connection to, like, a story we've already covered. It doesn't matter that we already covered it. Like, we always want to hear about that.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, for sure.

[Georgia Hartstart]

All right, should we get into your story?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yes.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay. Let's listen to Karen's story. About what? If you said no, I'm like, you know what?

[Karen Kilgarra]

I gotta go. I actually, I was laughing because this is one of my favorite stories. Like, the first time I heard about it. This is what I'm in it for right here.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Why? What about it?

[Karen Kilgarra]

A creepy guy in the attic.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, you love people in walls and living in the attic and closet.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I can't get over. Sorry. There's been someone up there though. What can you imagine?

[Georgia Hartstart]

I'm not scared of that because I think I would have heard something. But no, like, I think my senses are better than. My spidey senses are better than they probably really are.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We'll see. Okay, we'll see. When we get that Video take back from your attic.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Wait, you're. You've been filming from my attic this whole time?

[Karen Kilgarra]

I've actually been living in your attic this whole time. You need to pay more attention. Tension.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay, you're right. All right, let's listen to Karen's story about Theodore Edward Coneys.

[Matt Rogers]

This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping. Right? Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same moment. Well, you can boost the WI fi to your device with Xfinity.

[Matt Rogers]

And have you ever asked yourself, what if my wifi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI fi has parenting schemes, skills, even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like, don't worry, I'll monitor the WI fi.

[Bowen Yang]

It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back.

[Matt Rogers]

Xfinity.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Imagine that when your schedule sounds like this. Are you kidding me? An oil change is the last thing you have time for. So drive into take five and let our techs change your oil, Check your tire top off your fluids and have you back on the road pit stop fast, all while you stay in your car. No putting your entire schedule on hold. No upsells, no problem. So you can get back to your to do list or not. Find your nearest [e-mail] Take 5 the Stay in your car 10 minute oil change.

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[Karen Kilgarra]

well, I love

[Georgia Hartstart]

going first because now I can just.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I know, right? Here's my thing. Of all the stories that I looked at, I picked one that actually took place in Denver because it's a story that has all the things that I love. And this is my podcast. So I'd like to tell you all a story you probably know cause it didn't happen too far away.

[Georgia Hartstart]

36 minutes, right?

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's the Spider man of Denver.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Whoa. I don't know this one.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, I want to make a joke about the guy that starred in Spider man, but there's been so many that everyone would be like, that's not real Spider Man. Toby. What's his name? All right. Denver, 1941. Phil Peters, a 73 year old railroad auditor, lives in a modest home at 3335 West Montgomery Place with his wife in Denver, Colorado. On October 3, she breaks her hip and is hospitalized. So since Phil's gonna be home alone, his very lovely, nice neighbor tells him that while she's in the hospital, he can come over for dinner at her house every night.

[Georgia Hartstart]

No.

[Karen Kilgarra]

So, so he does it. He comes over to her house every night for two weeks until she like, can he.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I just don't know how much more I can talk to him about the weather.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I don't like that much. So. So the night of October 17th, Phil doesn't show up for dinner and she gets really worried. So. Because he's 73. And so she goes over to the house to check if he's okay and all the lights are out and the front door's locked and when she knocks, he doesn't come to the door. And that makes her more worried because she doesn't think he has anywhere else to go. So she gets a bunch of neighbors together and Sarah, I'm worried about Phil. I'm afraid he fell down inside the house or something. I just made that up. Let's write the scene. Phil is such a good friend, and he loves my cooking. She said to her neighbors, yeah, she really. Just.

[Georgia Hartstart]

The reality is she just needed to borrow some milk. And she was like, guys, guys, gather around. I need to get into Phil's house so I can get some milk.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. I'm trying to make a pie. And Phil owes me big time. He's eating beef stroganoff at my house every fucking night for two weeks.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Hot dish.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay? So the neighbors go all around the house. They split up in my mind. And they go all around the house.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I love this.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Checking doors and windows. They're all locked. This house is locked up tight. They can't get in. So a girl finds a loose window screen and pulls it open. They figure out a way to jimmy the window up. They basically break into the house. She climbs into the window and they wait. Beat four, five, also made up. They wait.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Screaming.

[Karen Kilgarra]

They hear screaming. It turns out that she came upon the murdered body of Phil Peters. He was half dressed. He was horribly beaten. He had more than 12 wounds in his skull.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I feel so bad that I was like, okay, he's gonna come over for a hot dish and kill her. That's what I thought was gonna happen.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I thought Phil was the man.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So I was like, don't come over. What is she gonna talk about? Fucking weather. Until he murders her? Now I feel really bad. Sorry, Phil.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's okay. I just got a message from Phil. He says it's fine. It actually used to happen to him a lot. Okay. He was really creepy. The police find his watch and cash on the dresser. So they rule out robbery as the motive. But they also realize and are told and check and see that this house is locked up tight, including the chain being across the front door. Which means that there is a chance that the perpetrator is still in the house. No. Now, in my movie version of this, they all realize it at the same time. The neighbors and the cops, they're in a circle and they're like, well, if that right in the car are like,

[Georgia Hartstart]

someone go in there and see. Someone should go in. Here's my gun.

[Karen Kilgarra]

The cops, like, to the girl that went through the window, honey, go upstairs. Yeah. See if there's a man hiding.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Pass you our nightstick.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. So the cops start searching the house and they scour it. They look every single place for somebody that could have just murdered Phil Peters that's hiding in the house. How creepy Would that be. No, but they can't find anything. The whole place is empty. No one is in there. The only thing that they find that's even, like, of interest is like, a trapdoor for an attic, but it's so small that there's no way a person can get up there. So they're like, all right, well, we don't know what happened.

[Georgia Hartstart]

No, it's not valor, though.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Well, I mean, whatever. So they're baffled, and the case comes to a standstill. Now, meanwhile, Mrs. Peaked, whose name I never learned because who gives a shit at what the wife's name is?

[Georgia Hartstart]

She's joking.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's not what I'm saying. I literally checked, like, seven articles, and she was always Mrs. Peters. Yeah, it was 1940. Let's all be grateful that we live in 2017. So. Yeah. So Mrs. Peters has been in the hospital with a broken hip.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Hey, honey, we have some.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Her husband gets murdered. Yeah. A nurse is like, I have some news now. Open your mouth and put a pill in it. Just take this pill.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We don't know what your name is, but open your mouth and dig this pill. Nobody knew what her name was. That was why they didn't.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Mrs. Peters.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, her name was Mrs.

[Karen Kilgarra]

They were like, judy.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Judy.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's not Judy.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Sounds right.

[Karen Kilgarra]

So she has to go home. Now, in the amount of time between the murder and Mrs. Peters still being in the hospital, the neighborhood starts to get kind of freaked out because neighbors start hearing noises in the house. And then the cops come and they check the whole house and there's nothing there.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Also, forget about that thing again in the ceiling. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, good call, good call. Bookmark that one.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Then there's a group of kids walking by when one morning, one snowing morning. Lies.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Snowing now.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Lies. And they look up and they see a ghoulish face looking out the window at them.

[Georgia Hartstart]

No, don't ever look up. Children should never look up.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Look down, always. So they again, call the police. The police go in, search the entire house. Nobody there. So then basically the neighborhood starts talking that the Peters house is haunted by Phil Peters, who got murdered inside the house. He's still in there.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That's gotta be it. His body's. Oh, you mean that it was winter? You mean the ghost got it?

[Karen Kilgarra]

The cops are like, we're just gonna leave him here for a while, Figure some shit out. So by the time Mrs. Peters returns, Gladys Peters returns to the home. Gladys. That has a nice flow to it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Gladys Peters. I think that's it.

[Karen Kilgarra]

By the time she Gets back the whole. She knows that the whole neighborhood thinks her house is haunted, but so she stays there. I actually think the real thing that happened is she was there. And in this one article I read, it says said while she was in the house, she was startled and she fell and re broke her leg.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, honey.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Fucking Gladys. She's had it hard.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh man.

[Karen Kilgarra]

But I wanted like the startled thing. I was just like startled by what? A face in the window.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So they probably shouldn't have said, hey, there's a ghost of your husband in the house. See later. Go heading in there.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Then every single thing she does, she's like, woo.

[Georgia Hartstart]

She's ve the out of an old woman with a broken hip.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. How about back then they didn't care? They were like, we don't care what your name is and we don't care about your hip at all. So she hires a nurse to stay with her and the two of them start hearing noises.

[Georgia Hartstart]

The nurse is like, no, the nurse

[Karen Kilgarra]

is like, I mean, it sounds.

[Georgia Hartstart]

What?

[Karen Kilgarra]

So at night they both are hearing. The nurse thinks there's something in the walls. They're hearing something in the walls. And at first they think it was like what everyone says when you hear noises. The house is settling. No bullshit.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I'm like, it's 400 rats. That's the first thing I think. Or it's bees.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's so many bees living inside your house.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Or it's a murderer is what everyone in this audience would think, right? And I bet they're correct.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I mean, we'll see.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We'll see.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Page two. So. Sorry, I had to find my spot. Okay. Fuck, here we go.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, my voice.

[Karen Kilgarra]

The nurse gets up one night cause she hears a noise.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Uh, stay in bed.

[Karen Kilgarra]

She walks out of her room and down. And she sees on the back stairs a thin, filthy wretch. And when she came upon, chattered its teeth at her.

[Georgia Hartstart]

How do you even do that?

[Karen Kilgarra]

All caps. Can you see that? All caps. It shattered its teeth.

[Georgia Hartstart]

How do you do that?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Horrible. It's nice with your teeth because you have nice teeth. But I have good ghost teeth. Oh, short and scary.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Picture them like they're all pointed.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. Shave down. Oh, okay. It's for the movie. It's for the movie. Okay, so it's for the movie. I wrote this. And right after letting the police know what she saw that night, she peaced out as far as she was humanly possible. So she was like, no, thank you so much. She left. And Mrs. Peters, Maureen Peters is by herself. So a kindly neighbor Perhaps the same one making dinner for every fucking buddy comes over and she's like, I'll stay with you.

[Georgia Hartstart]

No, take her out of the home and take her to your house.

[Karen Kilgarra]

They're like. It's like every. It's like every haunted house movie where it's like, you know what? We're gonna make this work. They always do that, go to a hotel. They're like, I know we saw a child with, like, all black eyes trying to give us a message, but let's make it work.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, but maybe I won't. Maybe I won't see the. That.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Like, wheel her over in her gurney to your house where you like to cook and sleep there.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Maybe take her against her will in her gurney where she's strapped down.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Mrs. Peters.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Nice hot dish.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Not an individual, not a wife only, right?

[Georgia Hartstart]

And then I love it. Everyone's just like, I'll come. Okay, so sleepover.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Here's the nice neighbor. And Mrs. Peters, like, come on. Girls aren't real. Several nights later, the neighbor hears something rattling around in the kitchen.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Like, are you surprised? Is she surprised at this point?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Well, no. In fact, she is quite brave because she gets up and she runs to the kitchen without turning on any lights.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Please tell me she has four knives in her hand. Like, that's the only way I'd be impressed by that. If she's just like.

[Karen Kilgarra]

She has scissorhands.

[Georgia Hartstart]

She slept with knives taped to her hands. Right.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It was the only thing that was going to make a difference.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Like, hope she didn't have an itch on her face at any point.

[Karen Kilgarra]

When she gets to the kitchen, she sees a ghost standing at the foot of the stairs. She said it was a filthy wraith thing that vanished when she screamed.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Vanished? Cause he, like, ran to the side,

[Karen Kilgarra]

just. Actually. Just a nice sidestep, she said vanished.

[Georgia Hartstart]

But, yeah, he just sidestepped.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He crab. Walked out of there.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. And then I wrote, long story short, Mrs. Peters went to live with her son in western Colorado. Finally, that was it. That last one was it. They gave up. They're like, fuck this noise all over the place.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I could have told them that from the beginning. From the point where you find a dead body in a house, don't sleep there anymore.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, it's true. But I think back then, it was like, you buy your house and you pay off your mortgage, and then you're retired. And then you and your husband that used to work at the railroad yard

[Georgia Hartstart]

or whatever, who's not dead, stay there.

[Karen Kilgarra]

The one.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay. Guys, I'm just trying.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I'm just trying to talk you through it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Sorry I'm mad. I'm clearly.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I just wanted you to see the logic of staying in a house where multiple times people have spotted ghosts and heard terrible things that keep happening and where terrible things happen.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So stay living there. I guess I've only lived in, like, apartments in my life, so I don't get, like, having an attachment to a house in any way.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Like, change.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Great.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay. We don't know why people make the decisions they make, but this is what happened. So finally, now the house is just sitting empty.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay?

[Karen Kilgarra]

But because of the rumors of the paranormal or something going on there, the cops stake the house out every once in a while. So one night on July 30th, 1942.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Ooh, that sounds fun, right? Stakeout in the 40s.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Stakeout in the 40s. Imagine the coats and the smoking with

[Georgia Hartstart]

the sunflower seed piling up on big old.

[Karen Kilgarra]

A huge car. A car that's three times the size of any car.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Now, a Slurpee size of, like, popcorn thing. Size of hot black coffee.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yes. But it's got popcorn in it. Yeah, that's how I used to do it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Coffee at Starbucks. Can I have a grande black popcorn coffee?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Extra butter.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Extra butter. That's gonna be a thing.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay. So as they're sitting there watching the house, the mailman comes walking up the street. Light of day, normal day on July 30, 1942. And as the mailman walks up.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, God.

[Karen Kilgarra]

One of the cops who's still looking at the house, he doesn't give a shit about the mailman. He's still looking at the house. He sees the curtains pop open and a face lookout. And right as. As it happens, he nudges the other cop, and the other cop turns to look as the curtains close. So they're both like. It's fucking on like Donkey Kong. They get out of the cop car.

[Georgia Hartstart]

At what point. At what point does that first cop change the pants that he peed?

[Karen Kilgarra]

All I can picture is the face of that face that comes up really fast and goes away. In the Exorcist. That's all I'm seeing when I think about this face really fast. So.

[Georgia Hartstart]

But this time with, like, flowered curtains,

[Karen Kilgarra]

lace flower curtains, 40s curtains, right? Maybe even a paisley. Paisley print or just a faded linen. In the film now, the two cops get out and run to the house while Katrina and the Waves Walking on Sunshine plays because it's my favorite film. And they get. Oh, they Whistle. They whistle their cop whistles for assistance, which is precious.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And then, I mean, can you do it?

[Karen Kilgarra]

What?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Can you whistle? I want to hear.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Well, they have whistles, but they have whistle.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Thank you, I get it.

[Karen Kilgarra]

No,

[Georgia Hartstart]

I asked her and I can't whistle someone.

[Karen Kilgarra]

The audience is like, wait, I can whistle. They have a whistle. Oh, got it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I get it now.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Maybe they had whistles too. They're like, this is from 1940 fucking two, asshole.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I bought it on ebay. It's the one from the murder.

[Karen Kilgarra]

They go into the house, immediately hit with a wall of odor. It has like an animal smell inside the house. A supposedly empty house for three months. They head upstairs and they start searching. And as they're walking down the hall, scared maybe they're new one's, old one's young.

[Georgia Hartstart]

He's about to have a baby like his mommy said about a baby.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He's about to have a baby. This one's about to retire. He's too old for this shit. You've seen it. You love it. As they pass a doorway, one of them, I like to think it's the one who didn't see the face, so it's even. One of them passes the doorway, sees a closet door shut. So he goes in, he opens the closet door, and he looks up and there's that trapdoor open with some dirty, dirty feet hanging out of it. Right? Good stuff.

[Georgia Hartstart]

He told them to open that door, remember?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Told them, and they didn't listen.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh my God, Karen, you're. I forgive you for not doing. I mean, not that it matters. They forgive you for not doing a boulder.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. Okay, so this cop jumps up and tries to catch a foot.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Don't touch it. Ew.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty feet. He instead catches a pant leg and it tears off in his hand. And it's like super tattered. It's shitty.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Disintegrates. Tired, shitty pants.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I mean, get out of here with your shitty pants. Pants.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That's the new look, the new style. Tired pants.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. He jumps up again, Both of his hands catch on to one of those feet, and he fucking yanks it down out of the attic. I know it feels like a victory.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Uh oh, that means it's not.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And down comes.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.

[Karen Kilgarra]

A filthy, emaciated man in very tattered clothing named Theodore Comies, who immediately passes out onto the floor.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Bullshit. That's like playing bed.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, you think he's faking it? Yeah, well, we could. We could play with that in the film where you're not sure if he's really lost consciousness.

[Georgia Hartstart]

He's laying there and he keeps opening one eye.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He's like a little kid pretending to sleep where his eyes are moving around too much under his lids. Yeah.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Good.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I like this someone.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Stephen, are you writing down our script?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay, so this man is in his mid-60s, he's 5 foot 10, and he weighs 137 pounds.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Whoa.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Quite thin.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

So the whole of this trapdoor, they say was a little bit less than three times the size of a cigar box. So it's like dink, dink, dank, however you would imagine.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So this is.

[Karen Kilgarra]

No, I think like cigar box like

[Georgia Hartstart]

that, a little bigger. Yeah. Well, then you go.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Right.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Then you have to go.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Don't go white. They're not end to end, are they? It's a square.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Like. You're right. I got it.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Here's the thing. It's very small.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Listen, I don't know math.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I don't know cigars.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I don't know cigars. Those are my two only things. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Shit, sorry, I should have briefed you. It's a fucking tiny hole.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Teeny tiny.

[Karen Kilgarra]

So they go up. It was. So they go up and they're like. They can't even get up into the attic, the hole is so small because they're normal sized men.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Do we have any pictures yet? Do we have pictures?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, maybe. Could I throw a picture up? Let's see what happens.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Is that him?

[Karen Kilgarra]

There he is, all cleaned up. That's the cleaned up. That's the ghost.

[Georgia Hartstart]

He looks like a bummer.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He's just really dry and sarcastic.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, he's in a band. Real angry eyes. Actually, he looks like what Mimi looks like most of the time. Just grabbed Grumpy as fuck. Aw, Mimi, get him away from me.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay, so they look up into this attic. It's got a single light bulb hanging from a wire. He's got a bed that's made of an ironing board. Okay. Masochist.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He's got, like a little bedding. He's got a bunch of megal torn up magazines everywhere. It just said magazines in my movie. Those are straight up triple X porn magazines. He's not looking through, like, Boys Life

[Georgia Hartstart]

or whatever or what's one of the, like, 1940s, like, movie star. It's not that you will call it

[Karen Kilgarra]

Movie Star because we won't be able to clear anything else for the movie.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Right?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay. And it smells so bad.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, God, he's Been shitting in there, hasn't he?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Because he's been shitting and pissing up there.

[Georgia Hartstart]

There's a toilet downstairs.

[Karen Kilgarra]

But the flush. Okay, so you said what?

[Georgia Hartstart]

The flush. No, of course you didn't. Why would you say that?

[Karen Kilgarra]

What, the flush? No, I said it's not a.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That's a me, not a you.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay? So they have to take him to the hospital because he is so thin, they think he's going to die. When he's released from the hospital, he's brought into the police station for questioning. So he tells them the story. So as a child, he suffered from such bad health that doctors told his parents he wouldn't live to see his 18th birthday.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And for some reason, they told him that.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, they're like, don't get attached to anything.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Don't tell your kids that they're gonna die.

[Karen Kilgarra]

They're like, don't sweat the small stuff. And we really mean that. Like, really. Or the big stuff. Try not to sweat. It's bad for you. So. So he quit school, which I would, too. Somehow he learns to play the mandolin, which is actually kind of perfect.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That's great.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He is in the Mandolin Club in Denver, which I'm sure a lot of you are in also. And that's how he met Phil Peters 30 years prior.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Whoa.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah. So he was a very sickly kind of young man that didn't do that much and, you know, had a hard time breathing. I was like, so.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Except he's a murderer. That's your response. He's a murderer.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Your response is, oh, baby. And mine's. I rolled my eyes.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Ugh.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He can't breathe or something.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Calm down.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Calm down with your sickness. When he got older, he at one point worked in ad sales. He was also a bookkeeper at the Denver Brass Works.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Axe sales.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Axe Body spray sales. They invented it in 1939.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Ad sales, you said. Correct.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It just smelled like cigarettes back then. Ad vertisement sales. But his poor health prevented him from ever establishing a career. And so he basically spent most of his adult life as a transient. So by the fall of 1941, 30 years later, he had just been. Had been out, like, on the road, traveling around. And he had been doing it for so long and just getting sicker and sicker because he was spending winters outdoors.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Do we know what he had?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Just, like, just shitty lungs. In the. In my movie, the doctor will flip open a. Like, a thing and be like, we're so sorry, Theodore. You've got a case of shit lungs. And then he'll cry.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Your lungs that technically just fucking suck. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I mean, there's no. There's no upside, no cure. So he was back in the Denver area around October of 1941. And he knew he could not survive another winter outdoors. So he thought, oh, maybe if I go to Phil Peter's house, he will help me out. But when he got to the house, nobody was home. And the front door was open because Mildred.

[Georgia Hartstart]

He was with Mildred in the hospital.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That's right.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You have a book by what? There's a.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Is it my guardian angel? Wait, I have some wishes. So he opens the door and he's like, I'm just gonna steal some food because I'm fucking starving.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I'm 510 and I weigh 137.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. So that's like what I wear. Nope, that's what I weigh.

[Megan]

Oxygen.

[Georgia Hartstart]

But I'm 5 shorter than that. You're 5 shorter, so that would be real thin.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It would be. Be tough. Yeah, but you could go into attics whenever you wanted.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That's true.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Upside. So. So he said he went in, he stole some food, and then he realized this was this opportunity. So he started looking around the house, and he saw that trapdoor, and he was like, this could be the way that I don't have to be outdoors for the rest of this winter.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Or you could have waited for Phil to get home and then came. I really need a place to stay.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, I mean, you could, but maybe Phil was just, like, half a dick. Maybe Phil was just like. He was, like, kind, but he would hold it over you. So he'd be like, sure, you can. You can stay and have a banana.

[Georgia Hartstart]

And then you need a.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Then it just stares.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, just stare.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay. We won't put it in the movie. Fuck. The people have spoken.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay, who plays Phil?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Good. I love this.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I love this. Let's work with this one for a minute.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I mean, off the cuff, I wanted to say Bill Pullman, but he's older.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Isn't he an older man?

[Karen Kilgarra]

You think he's older than Bill Pullman?

[Georgia Hartstart]

No, I think Phil's in his 70s.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Right. So let's. 73.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Right?

[Karen Kilgarra]

He was 73 then. We're doing Tommy Lee Jones as Phil.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, yeah. That's good, right? Okay.

[Matt Rogers]

All right.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He's ready. It's gritty, and I just like him. One time in la, we were driving up, I think it was.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You're looking at me like I'm gonna just start naming streets.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Well, I mean, that would be the fun thing.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Kuenga, let's Feel us. What area? Santa Monica.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I think it was Doheny, where the Four Seasons is.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And we're driving up it and there's a little bit of traffic. And the Four Seasons hook, which is very fancy as you well know, is right there where lots of celebrities go to just hang out. And as we were stopped in traffic, I looked up and there's a black Mercedes and the window rolls down. It's fucking Tommy Lee Jones. And I went like this. And he was like. He gave me the old fucking sailor salute.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That's a good one. And even in la, you guys think you see like. We don't see a lot of good ones. No, there's very few.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Few, few good ones. Yeah, there's. You'll see some people from the cw. They're beautiful. They're very beautiful.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And similar, but a tlj. You're not gonna get that every day. It was fucking magic.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I saw Simon Cowell.

[Karen Kilgarra]

What?

[Georgia Hartstart]

But out the window of the car I was in, I was in the passenger side sitting and I saw him. He was. He pulled up next to us with his window rolled down, but unfortunately I didn't see him before. I had belched loudly out the car window right as fucking Simon Cowells pulls up in his like, whatever. Like a, you know, a car that Mazda, I don't know, Maserati. What do people drive that are.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, everybody drives Maseratis.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Corvette. I don't fucking know, you know.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Did he like love it?

[Georgia Hartstart]

I head.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He was like, it's a little pitchy. A little pitchy?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. He ignored me.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Well, then I just will say you're juicy. We'll just keep doing this.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

One time on Laurel Canyon, I'm up trying to take a left onto Ventura, you know, and it's where all the studios are. It's literally called Studio City. And as I, you know, it's very nerve wracking to make left hand turns in Los Angeles. And I just moved there like probably two years before. It's very scary. You have to really, you have to attack the intersection. You have to take your space.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Everyone's fucking pissed at you, behind you.

[Karen Kilgarra]

You can't win. You always do it wrong. It's bad. So I'm out there really trying to like take my place in the world of this intersection. Well, who comes up in a light blue Jag but Mr. Clint Eastwood?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Karen. You get all the hot gruff older ones.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I get this fucking manly man. And he was. Because the sun was shining in his eyes. So he was like. Oh, he looked like he was doing a Clint Eastwood impression the whole time. It was fucking so rad. It was so rad.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Billy Bob Thornton.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay. Yes.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Another gruff fucking. I'm just saying his name. No, I saw him once. What did I remember? Did you see him? Yeah, I walked right into him. We were at a book. Remember when there was Borders on La Cienega?

[Karen Kilgarra]

You got.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Remember? Remember I was walking around. Around the corner, right into someone. Oh, I'm so sorry, ma'. Am.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, he comes.

[Georgia Hartstart]

His hand. He was so polite. And then Angelina just gives me the stink eye when she walks by.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Are you. They were in Borders.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. Like, oh, you tried to walk into my husband. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

You did, girl.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I did not.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Did you?

[Georgia Hartstart]

I did not. He wears a vial of your blood or.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I know.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That's disgusting.

[Bowen Yang]

What?

[Karen Kilgarra]

That is so. Goes against everything they were doing at that period of time.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. They wanted a book on how to keep your marriage sane.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Or they're just getting like, one of those, like, map books about hiking. She's like, don't tell anyone we bought this. We're into nature.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I. Lastly, most beautiful woman I've ever seen in my. Like, in person, in my life. I mean, next level. Don't clap. Next level, just. That was all I took away from that. Anyways, where were we?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh. Oh, Angelina Jolie. I thought you were building up to who that person was.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, no, no, no, no.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Who could it be?

[Georgia Hartstart]

She was so beautiful. Also, like, five, three, though.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Oh, really?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I thought she was tall.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I know they make it seem that way, but she's not.

[Karen Kilgarra]

They're all very small.

[Georgia Hartstart]

They're tiny human beings.

[Karen Kilgarra]

When you go there, if you run into a celebrity, you go to Los Angeles, you run into a celebrity, you will think they're in grammar school. At first, it'll like Alyssa Milano. Same deal. She was the first celebrity I saw in la. Immediately made me want to quit what I was doing, cuz I was just like, oh, you have to be 4 foot 8.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And giant head, 67 pounds.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. That's the only reason we're not famous, you guys.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I have a huge head and. We're persisting. We're persisting. All right, back to the film that everyone's been talking about at Sundance. Okay. So when he's being interviewed by the cops, he basically says he never meant to harm Phil, but once he was in there, he, like, his thing was he for the first. So he. Altogether, he was up in that attic for nine months living Inside those people's house.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgarra]

For nine months. And at first, he would just stay really, really still. And if he heard anybody downstairs, he would just freeze and stay still all day. But when it was still fill in the house, after a little while, he got bored and he said he would sneak down at first. He would sneak down at night and eat scraps. He would eat out of the garbage. He would stick his finger in the jelly jar and eat it back upstairs.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Also, who eats jelly raw like it

[Karen Kilgarra]

was the forties, though.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That's true.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We'll establish that at the beginning. That everybody eats jelly all the time. They fucking love it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Right? Right. With a spoon. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That's dessert at that lady's house. Okay. Everyone gets a spoonful of jelly and off to bed.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Can I play the lady who cooks for him?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Of course. The lady that cooks dinner?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, 100%.

[Karen Kilgarra]

But you have to read for it. Okay.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, well, then I know that's how

[Karen Kilgarra]

it is down there. It's show business. Yeah.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Look, I love you. I want you to be part of it. But the execs are. I mean, it was my choice.

[Karen Kilgarra]

There's so many. The line producer has to see the performer. Okay, guys, let's focus.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Not fair. Is everyone dying right now? No, we're good. Okay. No, they're not.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay. So. But then he gets bored, right? So then what he does is he starts sneaking down when Phil is still in the house and shadowing him as he walks around the house, house.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Everything up until then was like, oh, okay, that sucks. But now I'm like, oh, you're crazy.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yes, because he said the quote is that he didn't want to hurt him. And I'm not going to be able to find it because I've. I've gone so far into on my show business fantasy that I have no idea where I am in this document.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Make up a line.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He. Oh, that's right. This is my movie.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You can say whatever the fuck you want.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He basically said, there it is. There it is.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Are you sure about that?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, no, I'm just reading to myself now. What a great story. This is. This is fucking crazy.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Suddenly she just stopped reading to the audience.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He said, then I got bold, and I used to shadow him from room to room. It was sort of a game. Gave me a thrill. It was the first time in my life I'd ever had anyone at my mercy. That's not a game.

[Georgia Hartstart]

It's also not at your mercy because he's choosing to watch fucking Ed Sullivan or whatever. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

He's living his life. He doesn't know you're there.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You're not. Yeah,

[Karen Kilgarra]

that's so Theodore. But then, here's the rest of that quote. I didn't want to hurt him. It was miserable hot in the summer, and my feet froze dead in the winter in that attic. But it was all part of the price I was willing to pay. I can't tell you why I stuck it out. I guess because I was in a world on my own. I used to go down and look out the window and watch the postman go by. Nobody's written to me in 25 years. Whenever I saw people on the street, street, I hated them. And I'd go back to my attic. I relate.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Nobody's written to me. No. If only he had gotten one letter. If only. Phil was like, oh, this is for you, Chad.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Even just a bill or something. Yeah, but no, he was just mad about mail. Everyone's got their reasons, you know? And then he said about the night of the murder. Everything would have been. And Phil Peters would have been alive today if he hadn't caught me robbing the ice box.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, it's his fucking fault that you broke in and murdered him.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Phil was asking for was him or me. I thought he'd gone out, but he was taking a nap. I hit him with the stove shaker, which I. I've looked it up so many, I cannot figure out what a stove shaker is. It's like a grate or something.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You shake the stove with it.

[Karen Kilgarra]

In my movie, it's just going to. It's going to be like a huge, huge. Like an iron statue.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay, well, I like the kitchen angle, though. Maybe it could be a cast iron skillet. Okay, I'm not. Listen, I'm like, suddenly it's my movie, too. But this is all you. I'm just.

[Karen Kilgarra]

No, I mean, I want to work with you.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I want to collaborate.

[Georgia Hartstart]

All right, let's keep with the. I think that's your favorite thing is.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I don't know how, but

[Georgia Hartstart]

what about the hot dish tray that he had gotten from me next door? It comes back around Claunton.

[Karen Kilgarra]

She makes casseroles in a cast iron square that weighs 200 pounds.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Right.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Please return this when you're done, Phil, and don't break a bone.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Aw, Phil.

[Karen Kilgarra]

So I hit him with the stove. Cast iron skillet when he tried to run for help. When it was over, I ran to the attic. I was sitting on the trapdoor when you were pounding on it from below the night you found Him. So they actually, like, went and were like, what's this? And then we're like, oh, we can't open it. And probably. So then that means it doesn't matter.

[Georgia Hartstart]

All right, guys, follow through. Just everyone, life lesson. Follow through.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Follow through.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Spit.

[Karen Kilgarra]

So he. Theodore Comey's. Do we have any more pictures? Steven sent him. You might not.

[Georgia Hartstart]

There we are. There we go.

[Karen Kilgarra]

What is it?

[Georgia Hartstart]

I don't. Oh, it's a strath door.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Ooh. Oh, yeah. This is the attic.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Look at that guy's 40s hair all greased up.

[Karen Kilgarra]

There's the light on the. On the wire.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Look at that guy's grease. Using Dapper Dan in his hair.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Here's some. This is some pee. There's his ironing board bed over there, man. And. Wow, that's depressing. Okay. He confessed, and he was convicted and sentenced to a life prison in the Colorado State Penitentiary. What if I pronounce Colorado wrong? He went in on November 18, 1942, and he remained there for 23 years and eventually became the prison librarian.

[Georgia Hartstart]

All right.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I mean, he died in the prison Hospital on May 16, 1967, and the local press dubbed him the Spider man of Moncrieff Place, which is the street he lived on, because when Detective Fred Zarnow looked into the attic, which is probably that guy with the red hair, he said a man would have to be a spider to stand it so long up in that place.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Whoa.

[Karen Kilgarra]

There's your story, everybody. That was fun. It was nice.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I cannot tell you how glad I am I don't have to fall follow that. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. It was great.

[Karen Kilgarra]

You got to go into those old creepy ones.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I know. I never did the old creepy ones. I'm always like, here's a new one. It'll bum you the out because it's recent. You're one of. You are probably related to this person I'm talking about.

[Karen Kilgarra]

For real. You're gonna hate it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. Okay, we're back from Karen's creepy story. Any.

[Karen Kilgarra]

No updates on the Spider man of Denver, but at the end of my story, I suggest that you should look into more old creepy cases. We didn't have the network at that point.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Right.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We couldn't have known that we would someday have a podcast with Paul Holz himself and Kate Winkler Dawson herself called Barry Bones that does literally exactly that.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So cool.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's so exciting.

[Georgia Hartstart]

So it's almost like we get someone else to do our home homework.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yes.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We pay the smart kids at school.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We go out first, and then we hire Professionals to come and do. Do the. Do it right.

[Georgia Hartstart]

We did it a little backwards, but what are you gonna do? But hey. Okay. And then I forgot about this one. The hi Fi murders. We get a hometown story about it. It's so chilling. Let's listen to it. And then I have some corrections as well. So just keep that in mind while you're listening.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Right. All right. Should we do a hometown murder? Let's do it. Let's do it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Hold on. I feel like we have to pick the person not who's raising their hand, but who everyone around them is pointing at what song. We should pick the person not who's raising their hand, but who all their friends are going. Cause they're like this fucking girl.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Stop talking about her dead Grandma Karen.

[Georgia Hartstart]

What about her?

[Karen Kilgarra]

No, no, not that song. They've had enough.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I'm not enough.

[Karen Kilgarra]

They've had enough.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Half time she doesn't let me.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Let's do you in the white shirt.

[Georgia Hartstart]

It's just become a rule that I don't get a pick.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Is Vince on the side?

[Georgia Hartstart]

There he is. Oh, there's Vince.

[Karen Kilgarra]

You have to go this way. This one.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Just. She said just turn it on.

[Matt Rogers]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I don't see a thing these days. Just use the microphone the way it's supposed to be used.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Vince is here.

[Karen Kilgarra]

There's no thing to turn it on.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I swear to gosh. There's no on switch on that thing. We are not just that. Oh, hi. The husband did it. Look at her shirt. Her shirt says the husband did it. Can I have that?

[Karen Kilgarra]

You can't read.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah, you can't read it.

[Megan]

I have been using my college skills to cram. Uh huh. But I failed most of the tests

[Karen Kilgarra]

when I did that.

[Megan]

But maybe I can just remember it.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Just talk it out, you'll be fine. Wait, what's your name?

[Megan]

My name is Megan.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Hi, Megan.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Bleep it, Steven. Bleep it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Last name?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Uh. Oh, you don't get.

[Georgia Hartstart]

No one gets to yell at Steven.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, that's our job. Where are you from?

[Megan]

I am from Ogden, Utah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Great.

[Megan]

I trekked here with my cousin Kara Elizabeth.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Hey ladies.

[Megan]

Been a fan from the beginning and said you've got to listen to this podcast.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Good job.

[Megan]

It's our thing.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Thank you. We owe you $20.

[Megan]

Between Ebola and my favorite murder, we're the weird ones in our Mormon family.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You have Ebola?

[Karen Kilgarra]

You have Ebola?

[Megan]

No, we like it.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's disease.

[Megan]

Yeah, we like to read about it and then pretend like we have to.

[Georgia Hartstart]

What does it do. Does it just deteriorate?

[Megan]

It's bad shit.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Ooh, I love it.

[Megan]

Your eyes will bleed. Okay, listen, if you survive 10 days, you're in the clinic.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay?

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay. All right. Tell the story.

[Megan]

Okay, so Ogden, Utah is. This is the really big time murder in Ogden. I'm going to brush over it because it's pretty grisly.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Great.

[Megan]

If you want to know more, you're here.

[Karen Kilgarra]

We'll give you some links at the

[Megan]

end of the show. My mother went to high school with the survivor of the hi Fi murders.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, the hi Fi murders are so fucked up.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It is. I've never heard of this.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I've written it.

[Megan]

I've heard the hi Fi murders.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I have written it to do it.

[Megan]

And then I 24th, 1970, I. I crammed and I. And to my fourth grade teacher mother, who will listen to this at a later date. I took a cookie today, but that was.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That wasn't noon.

[Georgia Hartstart]

No, that was at noon.

[Megan]

We have great video of me worried that Karen's gonna yell at me.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Just don't talk slow. That's all I'm talking. Yeah, you got it. Okay. Just focus.

[Megan]

So 1974. Yeah, we've got. I believe her name's Shelley Ainsley. She's 18 years old. She works with Stanley Walker. They are in the hi Fi shop that sells speakers music, you know, total 1974 thing going on. Yeah, it's closing time. Little 16 year old Courtney Naisbitt walks in and says, hey, thanks for letting me park in the parking lot while I had to run some. He's down there talking with these guys and that's when these three bastards come in and

[Karen Kilgarra]

try to kill these people.

[Megan]

They tie him up. They dump Drano down their ears.

[Karen Kilgarra]

What? And mouth and mouths.

[Megan]

Down their mouths and ears. They're just. The second that it touches their mouths, they're burned.

[Karen Kilgarra]

They're mustard and. Sorry, Just right away, right away. Okay.

[Megan]

It's initially the guy that did it. It said that they wanted some good stuff, speakers and things. But then as they're in there and they've tied them up, he's like, hey, wait a minute, I got something in the car. So clearly he's got an idea what he wants.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, there's a little bit of pre planning.

[Megan]

So, you know, your 18 year old doesn't come home from work, your 16 year old doesn't come home from running errands. So of course their parents come to find them and see, where are my children? Carol Naisbitt comes to find her 16 year old son goes down in the basement. She is tied, given Drano and shot.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Same thing happens to her. Yes.

[Megan]

Then he's got Orin Walker. He comes to find. He wants to find his son Stanley, who never came home from work. He comes down there, they tie him up and they kick a pin into his ears.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I don't want this part into his ear you say?

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay. This part I don't want.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Courtney, keep going. You can't pause.

[Megan]

Courtney's beat.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Power through it.

[Megan]

Courtney's beat. In the end, these men decide they're going to just shoot everybody. Everybody dies except for Courtney Naisbitt. Now this is some bad shit, clearly. But after weeks of investigation, they find the three guys that did it. They are putting to death.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yay.

[Megan]

They are executed. Except for the getaway driver who is out amongst us. And I've tried to Facebook the shit out of this guy, but I can't find him.

[Georgia Hartstart]

They were in the military.

[Megan]

No, he claims he didn't know anything.

[Georgia Hartstart]

They were all in the military, right?

[Karen Kilgarra]

They were.

[Megan]

They all worked on Hill Air Force Base.

[Karen Kilgarra]

What the.

[Megan]

Which is, you know, the central part of Utah. I mean, it's. And they were stationed there. They said they needed money. Their pay sucked as military. And we do know our military needs, needs to be supported a little bit more. Child of a serviceman. But anyway, Courtney has lifelong ailments from this. He gets married, he has children, he graduates from college. He lived a full life and he died last year. But I did think it was pretty damn amazing. He still went to high school, he still accomplished things, and of course became an advocate for victims rights.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That's amazing.

[Megan]

That's O town.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That's O town, girl. You went there. I'm proud of you. Ally. Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Wait now, take a second.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Take it in. Take a second.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. Everyone applaud now.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yay. Reykjane, look at your girl.

[Georgia Hartstart]

This is hard to do.

[Karen Kilgarra]

It's very hard.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Especially with that story.

[Karen Kilgarra]

When you're high in that story. Holy buck.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I need a cookie. I need this shirt. I need that shirt.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Thank you so much.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Thank you, cousin.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Good.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You are amazing.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yes, that's how we do it.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay, we're back. Let's talk about some of the corrections on this hometown.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Okay, just to make things clear, a correction is that Megan identified one of the victims as Shelly, but her name is actually Sherry Michelle Anley.

[Karen Kilgarra]

She also said that only Courtney survived. That's not correct. Stanley's father, Orin Walker, also survived and eventually testified against the perpetrators.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That part where the parents come to check on their kids is just, like, the worst. Gut wrenching. Yeah, yeah. Megan mentioned the getaway driver still being out there and living among us. That's not correct. The driver, Keith Leon Roberts, was arrested, convicted on two counts of aggravated robbery, and spent several years in prison. In 1987, he was released on parole, and in 1992, he took his own life also.

[Karen Kilgarra]

So she says three men entered the shop, but two men, Dale Selby Pierre and William Andrews, were definitely inside. Both were ultimately arrested, convicted, and sentenced to death. And as mentioned, Keith Leon Roberts, who claimed he was never inside the shop, was charged with aggravated robbery. It's believed there were more accomplices, some of whom may have been inside the shop, too, but police have never been able to identify them.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That is just chilling. And then Megan says that Courtney passed away last year in 2016. That's not correct. He actually died in 2002. And I am glad we never have to cover that case again because. Yeah, it's just terrible.

[Karen Kilgarra]

But, Megan, listen, good job. And you're basically on par with the kind of job that we were doing with our research when we were doing this, and we would sit down and Google stuff. So off the top of your head,

[Georgia Hartstart]

live shows, I don't think we expect anyone to come up there and get all the dates and everything correct. That's not the point. And we yell at you if you try to take a piece of paper out.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Yeah, that's facts. We make it as hard as possible. But then here, we'll just, you know, state it for the record, Right?

[Georgia Hartstart]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Okay, so this episode was originally titled Live at the Boulder Theater, but if

[Georgia Hartstart]

you were naming it today based on some fucking ridiculous ass thing we said in the episode, maybe we would call

[Karen Kilgarra]

it, well, Dear Groupon, which is what Georgia thought.

[Georgia Hartstart]

I.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Is what you thought I said Dear Groupon. I love that. Yeah.

[Georgia Hartstart]

It has to be that. It could be called in my movie about Karen's Spider man of Denver movie, because I.

[Karen Kilgarra]

That's how obsessed I am with that story. I absolutely will make that movie one day.

[Georgia Hartstart]

You must.

[Karen Kilgarra]

And it'll be really cheap because it's all taking place just in an attic.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Right.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Also Sailor Salute, which is when I was talking about the time I saw Tommy Lee Jones and he gave me the old sailor salute.

[Georgia Hartstart]

If you're ever in trouble, you know who to call.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Tommy Lee Jones.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah. God, man. All right, well, thanks for listening to another episode of Rewind and let's pop back into Boulder. Where we say goodbye from stage.

[Karen Kilgarra]

I bet the odds of finding somebody in this audience that's not high will be very, very low.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Oh, yeah. Oh, sure.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Very low.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgarra]

These days, I bet people just get up in the morning and they're just like a boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Our Uber driver yesterday, this amazing, like, hippie chick who probably goes to Bernie. We were talking about it. She works at a dispensary. And she was like, yeah, I have friends who wake up in the morning and have fucking weed butter on their toast. Yeah, I'm just like, have toast and smoke some weed, though.

[Karen Kilgarra]

No, you fucking eat it. And then it, like, comes on slow. And then all of a sudden you're, like, just walking around at work and you're like, fuu. Don't stop smiling. Don't stop smiling. Everything's chill. Just be chill. Someone asks a question, just say yes. Sit at your desk, put on your headphones. I didn't realize I had that song in me until right now.

[Georgia Hartstart]

That was gorgeous.

[Karen Kilgarra]

They know that was.

[Georgia Hartstart]

They know that's your next song. That might be, like, how to Deal with Being High.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Can you. I did that one already. You have to write it down for me after we're done.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Stephen. You guys, this has been fucking awesome. This is the first weekend of our 2017 fall tour. We are checking out. What a great place to start.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Night two.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Night two.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Colorado.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Colorado.

[Karen Kilgarra]

What a great fucking place to start this tour. Seriously, it's like. It's very touching. It's very lovely how much support we get from you guys and love. We really appreciate it and we very much want you to. To stay sexy and don't get burnt out. Bye, you guys. Thank you. Thank you, Elvis.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Do you want a cookie? This episode is brought to you in part by Vital Farms.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Have you noticed that the egg section at the grocery store has gotten very complicated lately?

[Georgia Hartstart]

But Vital Farms makes it simple. Pasture raised eggs traceable to the farm.

[Karen Kilgarra]

Their hens have outdoor access year round with fresh air and sunshine and forage on rotated pastures with local grasses.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Every carton can be traced back to the farm it came from. So you can see the pasture where the he live. By visiting vitalfarms.com farm, look for the

[Karen Kilgarra]

black carton in the egg aisle and visit vitalfarms.com to learn more.

[Georgia Hartstart]

Vital Farms Good eggs. No shortcuts. Goodbye.

[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Matt Rogers]

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