Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 86: Live at the Enmore Theatre

Summary

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My Favorite Murder: Rewind with Karen & Georgia – Episode 86: Live at the Enmore Theatre (Sydney)

Podcast: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Date: March 4, 2026 (original episode: Sept 14, 2017)
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark
Theme: True crime, comedy, and the power of community — revisiting their legendary 2017 live show in Sydney, Australia, reflecting on resilience after a disruptive heckling event, the community’s powerful response, and two iconic Australian true crime stories.

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Episode Overview

Karen and Georgia revisit their memorable 2017 live show at Sydney’s Enmore Theatre, which followed a previous night marred by a disruptive heckler. With emotional candor and trademark humor, they reflect on how the Murderino community in Australia—particularly in Melbourne—transformed a difficult experience into something good, raising $9,000 for women's organizations. They recap their stories from the episode: the saga of "Aunt Thallie," Australia’s most notorious family poisoner, the infamous "Shark Arm Murder," and a local hometown account of serial killer John Wayne Glover ("The Granny Killer").

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

Reflecting on the Infamous Melbourne Heckling Incident

[02:27–14:02]

• The previous night was derailed by a male heckler, leading to misunderstandings about the show’s blend of true crime and comedy.
• Georgia clarifies rumors: “Now they’re saying I walked off stage. Hold on. What is happening? I didn’t. I wanted to. Never wanted to more in my life.” (04:52 – Georgia)
• Both reflect on how vulnerable live podcasting can be, and the emotional aftermath:
  “I did start crying. That part is true.” (07:54 – Georgia)
• Karen, using her stand-up skills, calmed the room:
  “As a person who’s done stand up comedy for 100 years, we just got heckled. I mean, that’s the long and the short of it.” (06:50 – Karen)
• The experience sparked warm support and solidarity from Murderinos and locals.
• Australian fans started a viral charity campaign, raising $9,000 for women's organizations as a gesture of support.

Notable Moments

• “They were like, please don’t tell Sydney about what happened” (10:28 – Georgia)
• “We’re honored to be even associated somewhat with that. This whole fucking thing is bigger than us.” (12:59 – Georgia)

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The Joy (and Humiliation) of Touring in Australia

[14:14–21:41]

• Cultural differences: Tim Tams, lollies and chalkies, Aussie vernacular (“smackies” for heroin addicts).
• Karen’s chair-breaking backstage:
  “The room started to slant to the right, and I didn’t know why…The chair that I was sitting in just bent…like I was being eaten by a giant clam.” (18:03 – Karen)
• Discussion of snacks, gifts from fans, Aussie slang, and physical comedy mishaps.
• Reflections on stage anxiety post-heckling, vulnerability of internet and live exposure.

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Story 1: Georgia Presents – Aunt Thallie (“Aunt Sally Caroline Grills”)

[24:02–44:15]

The Crime

• Caroline “Aunt Sally” Grills, born 1888, became infamous as Australia’s “Aunt Thallie” for poisoning relatives and acquaintances with thallium-laced cakes and tea in the 1940s and ‘50s.
• Victims displayed symptoms: hair loss, nerve issues, blindness, speech loss — many died.
• “Aunt Carrie” was trusted and beloved by her family, making her trail of poisonings all the more shocking.
• Her scheme unraveled when a suspicious relative swapped poisoned tea and took it to police, who found thallium traces.
• She was ultimately convicted of attempted murder (other murder charges were dropped for lack of evidence), sentenced to death (commuted to life), and died in prison.

Comic Tone & Notable Quotes

• “So she frequently visited her in-laws and friends, making tea cakes and biscuits for them. Uh oh, no, don’t say ah.” (30:04 – Georgia)
• Riffing on her name:
  “Her last name is Grylls. She’s got a great grill. Thank you.” (30:23 – Georgia)
• “Don’t ruin housedresses for us, please!” (37:04 – Georgia)

Big Takeaway

• Motivations never clearly established—possibly financial, possibly personal vengeance—making Aunt Thallie a grim enigma in Australian history.

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Story 2: Karen Presents – The Shark Arm Murder

[44:49–76:45]

The Crime

• In 1935, a fisherman caught a small shark off Coogee Beach, which was immediately swallowed by a larger shark. The bigger shark was brought to the Coochie Aquarium, where, days later—and in front of an audience—it vomited up a human arm, with a distinctive boxing tattoo.
• Forensics identified the arm as belonging to Jim Smith, a small-time criminal and police informant.
• Investigation led to a criminal ring: Smith, fraudster Patrick Brady, and boat-builder/smuggler Reginald Holmes.
• Brady was suspected of murder after being seen leaving with an arm suspiciously in his pocket. Holmes (who survived a suicide attempt that left him with only a concussion) attempted to implicate Brady, but was murdered before the inquest (three bullet wounds to the chest).
• With only the arm as evidence, Patrick Brady was acquitted—“an arm does not constitute a body.” The case remains officially unsolved.

Comic Tone & Notable Quotes

• “It barfs up a human arm. So they call the police… and they notice that it is not the remnants of the shark having eaten a person, because the arm has been severed—not bitten.” (57:12 – Karen)
• “The bullet flattened against the bone in his forehead and so he was merely stunned. What?” (66:02 – Georgia)
• “He shoots himself in the head—stuns himself—falls in the water, revives, then just drives his boat around the harbor for four hours!” (66:23 – Karen)

Memorable Segment (Book Recommendation)

• “In 2020, a book called ‘Shark: A Shark, A Tattooed Arm and Two Unsolved Murders’ was published about this case.” (77:09 – Karen)

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Hometown Story: John Wayne Glover (“The Granny Killer”) [with guest Jo]

[78:24–87:51]

• Audience member Jo, who boasts a moonwalk on Twitter, joins to tell the story of Australia’s notorious “Granny Killer.”
• John Wayne Glover killed at least six elderly women in Sydney’s north shore suburbs (late 1980s–1990), bludgeoning victims on their doorsteps or in nursing homes, often stealing only small cash amounts.
• Glover was ultimately apprehended after persistent but initially overlooked patterns; in jail, he was known for attention-seeking behavior and died by suicide in 2005.

Quotes

• On Glover's job:
  “He worked as a pie salesman… nursing home to nursing home… sometimes old ladies sell pies to their nursing homes.” (83:25 – Guest Jo)
• Jo, on attending local parties during the spree:
  “We weren’t allowed to go to the nearby one because someone [was] killing old ladies.” (85:35 – Guest Jo)

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Community Spirit & Aftermath

• Karen and Georgia continuously highlight the warmth and resilience of the Australian Murderinos. The heckling trauma is transformed into solidarity:
  “This community has been doing stuff like that, like representing us this whole time. It wasn’t our idea… it’s like, do you think?” (23:02 – Karen)
• The show ends on an uplifting note of gratitude for their fans.
• Multiple jokes about Tim Tams, Aussie slang, and physical comedy keep the tone buoyant, even amid the darkness of the stories.

Closing Sentiments

• “The support of the people who listen to this podcast makes me feel so much joy. It makes us both in awe every fucking day… You guys just reset us. Thank you so much.” (90:59–91:29 – Karen & Georgia)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Have you ever had every single one of your triggers triggered at one time? ‘Cause I have.” (03:23 – Georgia)
• “We’re never gonna post that episode…” (09:40 – Georgia, on the heckled show)
• “At midnight, two Murderinos—Nadine and Danica, social workers in Brisbane—started basically a ‘Oh yeah?’ campaign… $9,000 raised for women’s organizations in Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney.” (12:18–12:59 – Karen & Georgia)
• “I love podcasts. This American Life… Let’s go to this one.” (04:14 – Georgia, riffing on newcomers confused at the live show)
• “That was just a magical select moment for us.” (10:03 – Karen)
• “Give it up for rats!” (33:33 – Karen, on the thallium rat poison context)
• “This is what the help looked like…” (19:21 – Karen, describing Georgia’s attempt to rescue her from a fallen chair)
• “He shoots himself in the head…stuns himself…falls in the water, revives, then just drives his boat around the harbor for four hours!” (66:23 – Karen)
• “She looks like she could be my mom’s mom, and my mom is older than her because, like, back then it was like, you’re done at like 50.” (29:38 – Georgia, on Aunt Thallie)
• “Let’s say goodbye from the stage in Sydney in 2017.” (89:58 – Georgia)

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Additional Resources Referenced

• Books:

  • ‘Shark: A Shark, A Tattooed Arm and Two Unsolved Murders’ by Phillip Roop & Kevin Meager
  • ‘The Shark Arm Murders’ by Alex Castles

• Podcast Recommendation:

  • Zealot (audience member Jo’s cult podcast)

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Episode Highlights

• Honest, vulnerable reflection on a traumatic fan experience, and the subsequent community-driven healing.
• Comedic chemistry and improvisation, especially around physical mishaps, Australian culture, and crowd engagement.
• Two classic Australian true crime stories revisited through the My Favorite Murder lens: wickedly funny, factually rich, and deeply humane.
• Evidence of the devoted Murderino community turning dark setbacks into positive change.
• The hometown segment with Jo, who delivered not only a chilling local murder case but also an in-person moonwalk, epitomizing the fun, participatory spirit of the show.

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TL;DR Takeaways

• What started as a recap of a legendary live show became a meditation on vulnerability, community, and catharsis — with plenty of dark humor about Australia’s wildest crimes.
• Both main stories—Aunt Thallie and the Shark Arm Murder—stand out as uniquely Australian and uniquely “MFM”: fascinating, absurd, and deeply creepy.
• The episode is a love letter to Murderinos everywhere, a celebration of resilience and the healing force of true crime community.
• “Stay sexy. And don’t get murdered.”

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right, it's Wednesday and that means we are here recapping our old shows with all new commentary, updates and insights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Today we're looking back on episode 86, which we named live at the Enmore Theater.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. And we named it that because we are in Sydney, Australia. This was one of the greatest live shows we have ever done. I'm just gonna say it. The episode originally came out September 14, 2017.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 86. What's up Sydney? We finally got that right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We finally did it right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tonight's the night. Oh shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guys, what's up? What's been up with you guys lately?

[Georgia Hardstark]

How was your weekend?

[Karen Kilgariff]

How's everything's been going with you? Oh, it's so exciting to be here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have you ever had every single one of Your triggers triggered at one time. Cause I have.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm gonna start this show by saying this is my favorite murder. A true crime podcast. That's also a comedy podcast, which is a difficult and complex combination.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And they're weaved together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you simply must trust us that we're good people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's just for the newbies. That's just for the people who are forced here or who saw something in the newspaper and they were like, let's roll the dice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I love podcasts. This American Life. Love that podcast. Let's go to this one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Marc Maron, that guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll go to a live podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's see what happens.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we wanted to tell you guys what happened last night just to kind

[Karen Kilgariff]

of address it because at this point the rumors are so insane. It's a little bit crazy. Georgia looked on the way over here, Georgia looked at her phone. She goes, oh, now they're saying I walked off stage. Hold on. What is happening?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't. I wanted to. Never wanted to more in my life. We started the show by talking about plucking chin hairs as you do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, who doesn't do that? Again, comedy, True crime comedy, live podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then Karen did a great light hearted murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how I do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Such a thing. And then I didn't. I was doing this thing where like I did. I did Jill Maher the night before. Yep. That's exactly what happened. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, well, this time I'm going to go in a different direction.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let me just stop you by saying that. Anyone again who might be new. She did Jilmar. And when we did our meet and greet, which is where we get a lot of feedback and we love to hear feedback and people tell us what they think, every single person was like, I was so scared that you were doing that and you did it great. And it's obviously. No, no, no, no, it's okay. But I mean, like the one thing

[Georgia Hardstark]

we talk about all the time is that we're here to represent and support the victims as comedy is not around that. So I think I okay with the way I did. But then I touched a nerve the next last night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. There was somebody in the audience who clearly was having was out for the weekend and made a bad entertainment choice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know what? Do you know what I bet happened? Some fucking sweet hardcore murderer was like, fuck, I have to work tonight. Uncle Dave.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dave. Listen, Aunt Julie, take these tickets.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You guys love horror movies. You're really into horror movies. You guys love comedy. I feel like you might enjoy this thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that Murderina was wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Deeply wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really. At the end of the day, what happened is. And as a person who's done stand up comedy for 100 years, we just got heckled. I mean, that's the long and the short of it. There's been a lot of words used to describe what happened that I think are inaccurate because it was a guy yelling, this is shite. And although it's rude and jarring and upsetting, it's still not like a assault or anything. You know what I mean? Like, it's just a person going, this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The only thing was really angry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he was mad. And also he had, like, the lungs of Pavarotti. He was the loudest person I've ever heard speak.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And if you can imagine, all these Murderinos were like. Like this. What the? You know, in their minds, what the. But we were all like, what the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone's like, what the fuck? For a while.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it seemed like it went on for 25 minutes. It was probably 20 seconds. And then they just hightailed it out of there. And then we had to, like, sit in it for a little while.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I did start crying. That part is true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it was upsetting because he was yelling at her. And also it was this moment where, like, it happens all the time in this podcast. We were talking about something incredibly sensitive, and then one of us fucks up and the other one makes fun of that person. And they interpreted that as us laughing at someone's death, which makes sense logistically, you know what I mean? It's like these. It's not. We didn't argue it. You know what I mean? Because that was what was happening, but it also was not what was happening in the least.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then Karen. Fuck, I just looked at her and I was like. And you, fucking like a champ, took over and said the most eloquent, wonderful thing. And it was so. It meant so much to me. Listen, I have to say, I'm so fucking happy you're on my team. And I'm so lucky that you have my back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it means a lot to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I'm not pandering. Look, look, I'm just pandering.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I trained at the Improv Olympic for 22 years. No, I'm just kidding. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I was just like, you know what? For me, I come from a family of incredibly loud yellers, so it was like, oh, my God, Thanksgiving again. I was just like, Are you done? Ok, we get your volume anger.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I'm not like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that's not her experience.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it's just mine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But yeah, so there was lots of people who were like, don't quit the podcast. And were like, are you. I just fucking quit my job. I have to do this podcast. I painted myself into a corner. Seriously. Seriously.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're never gonna post that episode. I think we should post the part that we. Whatever. Anyways.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, so I should hear. That's ever gonna happen out of context, people will be like, that was a weird speech. That was a weird, quiet speech about how hard life can be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was just a magical select moment for us. And the funniest part to me is

[Guest (Jo)]

at the vip, oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There were people who would come up and be like, it's so funny because I have anxiety disorder. And we're like, oh, shit. It's like, worst case scenario for people who are already like, it was hard for me to come here. And then the man started yelling. We're like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Then an angry man. We're like, sorry, this is. And it's 99. Look around you. It's like, all women here. Oh. And then you guys have to. Okay, listen, don't tell anyone we told you this. Don't tell me we told you this. But they said to us, please don't tell Sydney about what happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sydney. So shh. They were really. I mean, but here's the thing. They were very embarrassed. Every single person that we met in that VIP was so lovely to us. They were so. And then we had people. Part of what Georgia story about was a crime family who ambushed cops and were trying to kill cops. And that was part of the sensitivity. And about the fourth people who walked up in the vap line, both worked for the Victoria Police Department. And one of the women was like, my boss told me to listen to this podcast for the health of my job. And we were like, are you just saying that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I started crying again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then I was like. Then it dinged in my head. I was like, hey, there was a cop here last night. And she likes our podcast, too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, you know, she gave us a caution tape.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And a little badge.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But then, Australia, you guys responded in the coolest way. That makes us so fucking happy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you all get credit. You all get credit. Not just Melbourne.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like the mascots of this podcast with. I feel like I have, like, a tiger head on and a Murderino. And like, we're. We're, like, cartwheeling. And then Everyone else is the football team.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That doesn't make any sense here in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But what you mean is at midnight, two Murderinos. It was Danica and Dan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We have their names. Nadine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nadine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nadine and Danica. They are social workers in Brisbane. And they started basically a oh yeah. Campaign.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The. Oh, you gonna heckle, are ya? And so we had Stephen grab a still of what the total of money raised for this having happened. Can you see that, you guys? This was as of 6:00 clock today, it's $9,000 that's going to women's organizations in Brisbane, in Melbourne and in Sydney.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. We're fucking honored to have to be even associated somewhat with that. And we know that it's not. This whole fucking thing is bigger than us. And we appreciate your support.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's really. We're gonna have a man come out and yell at us every night. And then. And then you're going to have to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It'll be Vince. If it's Vince, I can fucking deal with it. My husband Vince.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And like a mustache and a bowler hat. Like, this is shite. We'll be like, better raise money. Give us money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think. Can we say someone was like, well, I hope they. They thought the money was going to

[Karen Kilgariff]

me because it was like, we. We love Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we love you, Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They must have just checked the website and immediately gotten off without reading anything. They were like, well, I hope she gives at least some of the money to the hurricane victims. We're like, lady, lady.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what this guy did. He checked the thing really quick and he was like, okay, I know the story. I'm gonna scream at you. Shite. Shite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And look, sometimes we are completely shite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here's the thing. I was so distracted, I never plucked the hair. It's still there. Yeah, I'm gonna keep it as a reminder forever and grow it so long. Speaking of facial hair. Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You want to see your friend Steven? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Steven, I want to see your friend Stephen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi, Sydney. Steven, I just want to tell you too, because I feel very emotional tonight that we appreciate you two a lot. Thank you.

[Guest (Jo)]

Everything you do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love you guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We love you too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We love you, Stephen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we're always kidding when we're mean to him. You guys know that, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fun to yell at Steven, but. But Stephen does a lot of shit for us. All the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All the time. Yeah. Yeah. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You love the yelling?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Perfect. Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the perfect relationship. Yay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yay, Stephen. All right, bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should we talk about Spanx or should we sit down?

[Karen Kilgariff]

How dare you. I was gonna go into a 15 minute Spanx chunk, and now I can't. No, I felt like there was one other thing I was gonna say that was about important. Oh, I guess it's just. No, it's just if I eat one more Tim Tam, I'm gonna fucking explode. It is out of control.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Next time, we are going to another country instead of saying on the podcast, everyone, bring us all your chockies and lollies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've since learned is the thing. Snicks, snicks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's kiwi. That's kiwi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm just gonna say, bring us money for the hurricane instead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bring us money for the hurricane straight into Georgia's pocket bags.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can gift wrap it, whatever you want.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My favorite is that you guys call them lollies and chalkies, but then also you call heroin addicts smackies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's something we found out from our driver, Wally. That was one of my favorite things I've ever heard anyone say.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He kept calling us a cunt and he said, no, no. It's when we like people, we call them cunts. And we're like, okay. That true?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, that clearly fits me so well. It's my favorite word.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love it. Okay, now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, what kind of are these High challenge chairs. Like a lady. Oh, no.

[Guest (Jo)]

Did I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. Levels.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Levels.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is our new podcast. Levels.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell me everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mommy, Mommy, may I have some murder? I don't want to be that low. That's a little crazy. Should I just tell briefly the story of when I broke the chair?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, because it's so similar. But I wasn't gonna bring it up because that's not cool to your friend. Like when I told my mom in public she needed to shave her nose hairs. That's not cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not cool and it's rude. Now I can't remember if it was the first or second night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was the first night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've been on the road now for, I think 40 days.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not a bit. And now I'm sinking and I'm not even touching anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I think we've broken the chairs. Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, there we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, here, I'll just sit up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're a regular Larry, Moe, and Curly over here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We love physical comedy. It's our new thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We told you guys at the top. Comedy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Comedy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The first night we got here, George and I are doing our Makeup in the mirror as we do, just piling it on for hours before the show starts. And in my perspective, the room started to slant to the right, and I didn't know why. I thought maybe it was jet lag or a seizure or I was finally going to die. And right as I turned to Georgia to say, like, hey, is the room slanting to the right to you, too? The chair that I was sitting in just bent, like, these legs bent under. And I, in fucking straight up, slow motion, fell to the ground in the chair to the point where when I landed, I was stuck in it against the wall. Like, I had been. Like, I was being eaten by a giant clam.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And then I went after her. I went after her to save her, but I'm a human, so I was fucking cracking up the whole time. Cause who doesn't laugh when someone falls? But you were still a good person, so you still try to help.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's underlining.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'll say.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is what the help looked like. It looked like this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you know what I think I did? I went to hug you because I could tell you weren't hurt. So it's just gonna be like, oh, God. Like, nobody wants a chair to break. But then I noticed that the chair had, like, literally been, like, masking taped together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the story. We're going with masking tape chair. Yeah. So I've been afraid of chairs ever since. Look, it's been a hard tour. We've gone through a lot of shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If I look like I've been crying, it's because I have allergies and I've been crying. So this is the portion where we talk about murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So if anyone only likes comedy, you can. There is a door. Please don't yell. Please don't yell at me. I don't mean that. Please don't yell at me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like, we had nothing to fucking do with it. How dare you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I go first tonight, right? There's the door. I didn't mean it like that. Can I tell them about your earrings that someone gave us, please? They say, one says CK and the other one says F U. And if you put those two together the other way, it says, fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's really funny because there's that. And then someone also gave me a little enamel pin that's a heart with an arrow through it that says fuck off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like, they know you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just they know me so well. It's so. I want all my jewelry to be rude to everyone for no reason. H. So great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God, we're back. I'm sweating thinking about this. It me up for a long time. I'm not gonna lie. Like, even into this, Pat, this recent tour, it's always on my mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When I go on stage, you know,

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that experience, you know, stuff that's happened online, like the exposure level and the vulnerability level, especially when we perform live, is. I don't think people understand it, because it is. We've seen some real shit. And on that, at that show especially, it just was like, we didn't understand what was happening, and it just kept going. And so then people. It was like the other people in the audience were upset. The guy that was heckling was upset. It was just this weird kind of combination of things, and it was very unexpected because we had been on this crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It burst our bubble. It totally burst our bubble. Yeah. But I don't want to say it like, it was all negative because the Melbourne Martinos did some amazing work after that and donated a bunch of money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was very sweet. It was like there was a whole thing happened on social media because people heard what happened, and then people are like, what? We want to know and we want to hear, and it's like, it's fine. It's fine. We just had to be like, the. You know, the parents of it all were like, it's fine, and we're fine and don't worry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But then they were like, not in our city kind of a thing. And I respect that completely. And I don't, like, we're not never going to go back to Melbourne if we go on tour again. So it's not like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, it was just a kind. It was a person who didn't know where they were at a show going, what the fuck am I watching? But they just yelled it and felt like they had the right to yell it. And that was, you know. But you experience something like that, that's a real low. And then this show was basically everybody in Australia that cared about our podcast being like, we are going to make it up to you with good times, energy. Like, it was hilarious how fun that show was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It really was. So many memories.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah, we can say it's. It was Denisa and Nadine who started a oh, yeah. Campaign against the Heckler and raised $9,000 for women's organizations in Brisbane, Melbourne, and Sydney.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So fucking cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just, like, legendary. That's what this. This community has been doing stuff like that. Like, representing us this whole time wasn't our idea it's like, do you think

[Georgia Hardstark]

we have a larger contingency of listeners than other podcasts or comedy live shows that are epileptic? Because we've had so many people listen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As an epileptic, I'm gonna say shut the fuck up. No, I'm just kidding. No, it just. If you tour enough that shit happens. I mean, like, any comic can tell you the medical emergencies. Like at the Irvine Improv. I was there one night when something really medical emergency ish happened in the audience and it was such a big club that I didn't realize it was happening until like were taking the person out. It's such a. It's just a weird thing. It h. It does happen a lot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

EP Epileptic. Murderinos unite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We support you, fainters and bar. First, get up here. This is your podcast. We love you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, should we get into it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's do it. This first story is Georgia Story about Aunt Sally Caroline Grills. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a huge difference between having a hobby and making it a career.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And one of them involves invoices.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Squarespace lets you showcase consultations, events and experiences on a customizable website and get paid with professional invoices and online payments.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Built in scheduling and email tools help manage bookings and communication without juggling multiple platforms.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can offer courses, videos, blogs or memberships directly on your site, all behind a paywall.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You control set one time prices or subscriptions and create recurring revenue through your Squarespace website.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to squarespace.com murder for a free

[Georgia Hardstark]

trial and when you're ready to launch, use Offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

See full [e-mail] this is Matt Rogers

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[Georgia Hardstark]

So, which is what's really fun after all that, I get to go first tonight.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Right back on. They love it. They want it. They love it and want it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I found an old one so that nobody here remembers it happening or is directly related to the people it happened to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anything could happen. We're in a foreign country. Anything could happen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's true. It's true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, these chairs are going down. I can tell.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are we on the same. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think we are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is starting to feel like a Charlie Rose situation, isn't it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Yeah. This is. You know what I keep doing is I keep writing the name of the story in as the doc name, and I forget to put it on the top of my paper. So then I'm like, I guess this is the story of Anti Thale. Yeah. Anti Thale or Poisoner. Oh, I fucking gave away the beginning. All right, all right. Carolyn Grylls, born in 1888.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Should I pretend that I don't know it's a poisoner?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because you don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, she could have been lying the whole time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Carolyn Grylls, born in 1888. So nobody was her BFF as a kid. Here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You don't know Balmain. Balmain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Balmain.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You mean exactly how it's spelled. I'm trying to get creative, and it didn't work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, right, because when it's spelled and it looks like you know how to pronounce it, then you say it and everyone's like, it's Bondi or whatever that fucking beach is called. Stupid. Just because it's internationally known and insanely famous and so gorgeous. When we flew in on that plane this morning, I was like, ooh, it's like we're on vacation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Cradle a lot of homework. Okay. April 1908. At 18, she marries Richard William Grylls, hence her last name. He's a laborer. They have five sons and a daughter. And then in. So she has a bunch of kids. In 1948, Carolyn inherited and moved into her father's home in Gladesville. Thank you. Thank you. I'm like a kindergartner. Applause. When she pee pees or whatever. She's known as Auntie Carrie by her extensive family. She's a short. Okay, here's how they fucking. All right, I'll tell you later. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like backstage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, she's an older one. She's an old woman. Because 68 is old then actually, let's have a photo of her because she looks. This is her. I know, Kitty, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She looks like your grandma.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She looks. God, she has great teeth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She really does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really nice teeth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice teeth. She looks like she could be my mom's mom. And my mom is older than her because like back then it was like you're done at like 50.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Back then it was like you're 17, you have your six children and then you immediately look like that. There was no preventative creams back then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cold cream all over the place. Yeah, okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just a lot of dust.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So she frequently visited her in laws and friends, making tea cakes and biscuits for them. Uh oh, no, don't say ah.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Uh oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Remember the poisoner at the top of this thing? Guess who it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's great Teeth Johnson Bug.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, you know what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Her last name is Grylls. She's got a great grill. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the joy of comedy. This is what it can be like. Wait a second, is it Grylls? Like Bear Grylls? The guy that fucking climbs all over the place? Survives.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No Wide. Isn't he a Y? Yeah, he is a wide grill. Like straight up grill.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, great. Legit grill.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No fucking round. Yeah. In 1947, her 87 year old stepmother, Christine Mickelson, becomes ill with symptoms of hair loss, nervous disorders, progressive blindness and loss of speech and eventually dies while under Aunt Carrie's career. Throughout 1941 and 42 various family members become ill, including a bunch of family members, but all survive. Then in January 1948, a relation of her husband, Angela Thomas, also becomes ill and dies of the same symptoms, followed by her husband's brother in law. So I guess her brother in law, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. It would be her brother. Her husband's brother in law is her brother. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It could be her husband's sister. Sister's husband, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, listen. Nobody remembers this, so we're changing it. Yeah. To whatever we want.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you care, go on to ancestry.com and figure it out yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. John Lundberg. He dies in late 48. And one of her stepmother's friends and sister in law. I'm not gonna go there. Mary Ann Nicholson dies the following year. But presumably Auntie Carrie goes on making cakes and tea and shit. Until I wrote that. Cakes and tea and shit until September 1952. Yvonne Fletcher, a housewife and mother of two from the inner city, inner sub Sydney suburb of Newton, is charged. Newtown. Newtown.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's Newton.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't laugh at me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This can't turn into a call and response of town names. It's insane. That cheer was insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can I remind everyone that I got yelled at last night and I cried, so I'm gonna be on edge a little bit. That includes pronouncing shit wrong. Let's just pretend that that's why I'm doing that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think that's why they were like a football stadium just now, cheering for that correct town name pronunciation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I made pee pee in the potty

[Karen Kilgariff]

and they're proud of me. We support you, George.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cakes and teas. New town, you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Every time now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was charged and tried for the murders of both. So this chicken fucking turns out, kills both of her husbands with this poison called thallium. So it's a rat bait poison. Because rats were fucking everywhere in Sydney after World War II. They were 1.2 million rats just in Sydney. Whoa. And from.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so give it up for rats.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then so there was this rat bait and there was like, put it in. Put it in bread and sprinkle it around your house and you'll kill rats

[Karen Kilgariff]

in the rural area where the babies are crawling. Yeah, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But it was this crazy poison and people were like, oh, you can buy it at the store. I'm pissed at my two husbands. And then they say that at least 55 people were poisoned by thallium, 10 of which died, as far as they know. Because they weren't doing toxicology shit back then. Right. Because it was almost Untraceable?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You mean by her?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, no, no, no. Like in general. And so this one case got really big and. And then. Okay, okay. And it caused symptoms or falling and poisoning were loss of hair, nervous disorders, progressive blindness, loss of speech, organ failure, and eventual death. Remember that from the beginning?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. Are you putting it together?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I kind of am. It feels like someone's a poisoner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think we have another photo just for the fuck of it. Let's see. Oh, that's when she got arrested. Never mind. Spoiler alert. That's that time she put.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, look at that tattoo, Steven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't tell you to put that up, did I?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, was that her?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was a good dress. I'm sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't be sorry. Be happy. Okay. Because of the widespread media coverage. So this chick kills a bunch of people. It gets all over the papers. A dude named John Downey, who's related to our friend Aunt Carrie, read the story in a newspaper and was like, those sound like really familiar symptoms that I've had myself when I hung out and ate Auntie Carrie's cakes and shit. Uh. Oh, and his. His aunt or something. It was a long time ago. Evelyn Lundberg also had all these symptoms, and she had even gone blind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. But she didn't die.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. So on May 11th.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's my birthday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, shit. That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We always have to do that, even in the middle of a. Not this one. Like a word.

[Karen Kilgariff]

June 8th.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, I sent Steven some horrible thing that had a date on it the other day that was like. And this is the day this person was decapitated. And he was like, my birthday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You just can't help yourself, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They got decapitated 88 years ago on my birthday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I wonder what I was doing that day. Okay, so he goes over to Aunt Carrie's house and is, like, super suspicious of her. She's bringing tea and cakes and stuff out, and he sees her take something out of her pocket and put it in the tea. So he becomes a street magician and switches him around. Switch, switch, switch, switch. Switches. Takes the tea that he saw her lace, pours it in what I'm assuming is a bottle, I don't know, and fucking takes it home with him, brings it to the police, and they test it. Whoa. Thali poison is in it. Shocker. Shocking. Nobody saw that one coming. So then they also take her beautiful house dress, and they find traces of thallium in the pockets. So. Pocket full of Thalia don't ruin house dresses for us, please. That's all I have.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can put so much shit in house dresses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. At coroner's inquest, a bunch of witnesses recalled her bringing them drinks and how eager she was to help preparing food and. I'll do it. I got it. I got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want to kill everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nobody wants to help in the kitchen. It's a thing you offer and hope. People are like, no, no, I got it. So you should be suspicious of someone who's like, I want to help. You know, it's like, no, you don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The game's on. What are you doing?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, calm down. Go eat. What do they have? Go eat dip. Okay, so at 63 years old, she's arrested and charged with the attempted murder of her sister in law, who's now blind, and her daughter, the sister in law's daughter, her niece. Both. Huh? Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm big picturing. You're in the details and I'm out here watching all of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You didn't read 18 articles and copy and paste.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, this is all new to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Okay. So she's arrested, and they all. Investigators also exhumed a bunch of those bodies from before, and they found traces of thallium in two of them. And the others had been cremated so they couldn't be tested. So the coroner found her responsible for several deaths. Can they do that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how they used to do it, I think, back then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Yeah. She.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a book.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Never mind. She. I know I'm not gonna remember it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's called the dictionary, the Bible. What's that book? Da Vinci Code.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's. There it is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's charged with the murders and of Mary Mickelson, who was 60, Christina Mickelson, who was 87, and Angelina Thompson, who was 84. And at her trial, she professed her innocence. She said police had pressured her relatives to convict her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The ones that were still living.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And that she, quote, helped to live, not to kill. What? Yeah, I helped people live. I didn't kill them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And yet they're dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And then she was laughing at half the trial. She was just like a little nutso about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, well, she was excited to be out in her house dressed. Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In the end, the cases are dropped, and she's only convicted on the attempted murder of Mrs. Is Lenberg. So the woman who went blind in

[Karen Kilgariff]

October of 1953 because they could basically only do what? Deal with what was happening to the survivors, I guess.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Yeah. I'm sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What was the time frame like? Was it over years that she was doing?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It started in 1940.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Something say seven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's go seven. I think 41 is when it started, but somehow in 1953. Okay. And so another one in 1953. Bob Lulham. He's an Australian rugby football fucking player. But like star, I was waving my arms in the air. How did you not get that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Referee, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, like big. This is big time. This is big. Timer, star.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, now I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just have to say this just as a sidebar. The first day we got here, I turned the TV on in my hotel room and there was a rugby game on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My God. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you ever seen that shit?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. They pull each other's hair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Big boys just pulling on each other. It's crazy. It is hot stuff. Just mute that. Keep it on in the background. That's nice. Congratulations. You get that all the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'd never.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I had never. I didn't realize I was such a fan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

See, it scared me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It did?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Why? Because I'm scared of everything. Everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How about a nice big thigh?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know what that mime was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Piles of thighs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. So much sweat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's bad for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I'm not into that. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sweat in the thighs. Not my thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, yes and yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. It's like we're two different people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, we seem to be different.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Okay, so this dude's mother in law tried to poison who he was having a sexual relationship with.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what? Reclarify this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The mother in law is correct in this part. His wife's hot mom. I wish I didn't. Nope. Don't look over there. I didn't get that. His wife's hot mom and he were hooking up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And she tried to poison him. She was like, you're cheating on my daughter. I'm putting poison you. I'm making this part up. I'm guessing that's what the thing is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But also it's with me. I don't know the logic here. Shit, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jury has everything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, thighs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's my plan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's it. He lives. And soon afterwards, thallium is banned from sale. So the jury deliberated for our aunt over here. She's sentenced to death and later commuted to life in prison. She becomes known as Aunt Thali in prison. Auntie Thali in prison. It sounds like, in a loving way. I think the other inmates liked her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It also sounds like they're trying to say Aunt Sally, but they have a lisp or they're a five year old child in prison.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In 1960, she died in of. You know, old stuff. Yep. Less than seven years after her trial. In the end, nobody fucking knows her motives. And people thought it was revenge or envy or anger. And the dude said seven people were recipients of charity and kindness from Aunt Carrie. And they all died or suffered the nasty effects of thallium poisoning. She had maybe financial benefit to games, sometimes none. And no one ever fucking figured out her motives.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that's our friend Aunt Sally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. Aunt Sally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aunt Sally. Thank you. Man, I gotta get my allergies taken care of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This sound guy almost shat his pants just now. Steven. Steven, you broke the mic. Well, that was crazy. Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this story?

[Georgia Hardstark]

There are no updates. And you know what else? Let's just fucking get into your epic classic. This is a classic in the My Favorite murder Marvel universe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was so afraid you had already found this story and that you like that. Basically, I was waiting for when you were doing your story, hoping to God it wasn't this story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just like then. And then they found. And then Aunt Valley found a shark arm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

An arm by a shark. Okay. This is Karen's story of the shark arm murder.

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Mine is similarly old and similarly crazy. I'm gonna do the shark arm murders.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Man, I was so bummed today. When I text Stephen, hey, can I do the shark arm murders?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, get out of town.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He said, it's off limits. Sorry. And when you see that, when you're like, yes, Such a bummer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because we have to check with him to make sure the other one isn't doing it. Because we don't know what murders we're doing. Except for tonight, when I know what Karen's doing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it also Makart. She goes, you're doing my backup murder. It's my front up. Murder girl. You just make a list of 20 murders. You're like, sorry, that's mine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You took it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's mine. Well, this one is. I have to say, I think of all the murders I've ever read or done. It just has so much shit going on. That's so. It's beyond. And yet I actually, I didn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just saw Shark Arm Murder and I was like, I'm gonna do that. And so I don't know a lot about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You just looked at the title.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I'm gonna. I'm gonna sit back. Oh, then that would've been better if it had worked.

[Guest (Jo)]

Do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I'm gonna sit back. No, that's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then tip it this way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then fall.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Flatten it down. Roll yourself up in the rug. It's really funny because this. Somewhere along the line, this rug got put into our writer as, like, this is the stage design for us. And that means that everywhere we go, somebody has to buy and then, like, carry it around all the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And someone gets, like, at the venues, like, well, we don't have a rug. They're really mad at us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. You're like, sorry about the rug. And we're just like, we don't. We don't give a fuck about the rug anyway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But we're divas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was Just a bit of a behind the scenes for you about the rug tonight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You guys get to know all the shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tonight. Tonight, tonight. Okay. April 17th. Thank you. 1935, a fisherman hooks a small shark off of what I'm imagining to be pronounced Coogee Beach. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. By the laughter, I'm gonna guess. No,

[Karen Kilgariff]

Coochie Coochie beach. Oh, I see. This is a sexy country coochie beach.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, you guys said it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, okay, listen to this shit. This fisherman catches a shark, right? Kind of small. And as he's reeling the small shark in, a huge shark jumps up and eats the smaller shark. And so then the fisherman hauls the huge, huge shark in alive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. This is the shit that would go fucking viral if he had a camera back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you imagine?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That Coochie beach fisherman would be billionaire. Yeah, he'd be at the YouTube convention.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so that alone, we're in. Again, if this was a movie and that's the first scene, you're not leaving that seat. You're like, whoever this is director is, you're my favorite artist of all time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, what? That wouldn't happen?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Oh, my God. I can't believe I caught such a small shark. Holy shit. Jaws is here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Chomp.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what they do is it's almost. It's coming up on Anzac Day. And Anzac Day in Australia is. It basically honors all the soldiers that went off to World War I from New Zealand and from Australia. And it's a big holiday. It's a big holiday weekend. So in 1935, the Coochie Aquarium baths. Oh, do we have the picture of the Coochie aquarium bath, Steven? We do. So they were like. It was like a big fancy complex.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hold up. I see the word refreshments.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I see the word rooms. I see the words boiling water.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. Oh, yeah. They had so much boiling water there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was awesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wonder what the refreshments were.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was boiling water. You could have all the boiling water you could drink, but you had to

[Georgia Hardstark]

drink it right by the stove while it was boiling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's why they weren't doing very good business. No, not really. Okay, so there's been shark attacks all along the coast. And in 1935, in the end of February, in the beginning of March, three different young men were killed by sharks on the coast. So they had people out trying to catch and kill sharks all the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were like, guys, just leave them alone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Enemy number one. What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sharks stay out of the fucking ocean. I love that. Where they're like, we're gonna take care of this shark problem by killing three sharks or whatever the fuck. Like there's so many more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, exactly. You kind of. It's. It's a hard one to solve when they've been around for 80 million years

[Georgia Hardstark]

and they don't need to change because they're perfect fucking monster killing machines, creatures.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They have so many rows of teeth. Oh my God. Steven and I started getting into this thing today. He started sending me pictures. Sharks with human teeth. Have you ever seen those? It's the best thing of all time. No picture? No, I don't think so. You don't have one, Stephen, do you? I mean, you could just imagine it's like a jar. Like it's a shark picture coming at you with the crazy fucking pointed teeth. Rose, Rose, Rose. But instead of that, it's like Taylor Swift's teeth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's like, oh my God, I need to see that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucking hilarious. Anyway, we had a great time, guys. So anyway, the owner of the coochie baths was like, business is slow because there's been these shark attacks. But we've got this big holiday weekend coming up. I'm gonna fucking get that big ass shark that that guy just caught. Stick him in. Inside the baths. Can you show the inside of the baths?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because he's alive, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The shark, he's still alive. So they decide they're gonna put it. So that's the baths, it's all salt water. The saltwater's coming in from the ocean and people go and swim in saltwater. They have the same thing in San Francisco, the Sutro bath. So it was right on the coast, right? Okay. So Steven, so they take the shark and they put it in the, in the pool so people can come pay money. And look at the thing that's killing people in the water. And they see that one, a shark.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen, I want to swim with him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. People just stood around and said, he's pretty big. He's pretty big. He was, what you like to say down here, four meters long.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that sounds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Four meters and one ton with two N's and an E. What a measurement. So this poor shark is so at first, when he's there, he's there for a week. In the beginning, he's swimming around, everyone's freaking out, paying money and everything is working out great. But after a week, the shark starts acting strangely. It's moving slowly. It seems disoriented, it seems sick. And then on anzac day at 4:30pm There's a small crowd in the baths, watching the shark. And the shark goes into a frenzy. And then as it's quoted here, I got all this information from the Sydney Crime Museum website and the Dictionary of Sydney.org and of course our Wikipedia starts to go crazy. And then it starts vomiting copiously, is the quote. And out of its stomach come a rat, a rat, a rat, a bird, the remains of the smaller shark that he ate earlier. And then the big surprise, a severed human arm. So those people standing around at the Coochie baths there. Okay, there's the arm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Yeah, look at his dukes. The guy, his tattoos. Dukes are up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, here's the thing. The arm has a very distinctive tattoo of two boxers warming up together. Two boxers boxing on the arm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We need to each get that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Should we get it? I get one boxer and you get the other, or should we get a tattoo of a severed arm with. With boxers on the arm?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know someone has that somewhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I hope so. Okay, so now I'm only halfway down the first page of the story. That's all I'd like to say right now. This. We've already got a double shark attack. And then the shark barfs in front of everybody, a paying audience, which I would have loved, and he barfs up a human arm. So they call the police, they get the arm out of the pool, they take it to inspect it, and they notice that it is not the remnants of the shark having eaten a person because the arm has been severed, not bitten.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't know this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, so now they know something's going on and they have to look into it. Okay, so then they take the arm down to the police station, I'm assuming they fingerprint the hand of the arm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh huh. And they find out that it belongs to a former boxer, billiards hall owner and small time criminal, Jim Smith, who had been missing since April 7th.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How long was that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

When did it. April 25th is Anzac Day. So you do the math because I can't. Smith also lived in Balmain. Hey, Balmain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look, listen, look and listen. And spell your cities correctly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We just, I think everywhere we go, we're gonna have to sit down with a native for like two hours before we go out on stage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Two minutes, Really? I mean, we don't need to take that much time to ask a person at the front desk of the hotel.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cut into that mascara time for just a little bit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How do we say this word? Okay, got it. And then we do things correctly at the show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen. Jim Smith lived in that town with his wife and child. And we're just gonna start saying that town and his billiards hall, as they were back then, was a quote, seedy type of place where vice flourished.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sounds fun. Fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Lots of rugby. So Jim Smith was also a police informant. Or what they call a fizz gig. Or a fizzer. What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what it's called, you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't that precious? I like that. Okay. So they look into his situation and they find that either it is billiards hall or the other place he works, which was called the Tattersalls Club, he had fell in with a criminal doing business with a criminal named Reginald Holmes. Let's take a look at Reginald Holmes. He's a classy kind of criminal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good day. Good day to you, sir.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everything about him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Reginald has a whole box of pinky rings that he keeps on his dresser.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Those teeth have to be put in every morning and taken out every night. For sure. They'll kind of. And sometimes when he talks and he's drunk, they come out, like, for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They just slip down a tiny bit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or at least the two front teeth. You know how they. What do they call this? Anyways? Slippers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyways, also that. I think Stephen needs a pencil thin mustache. I think that needs to be the next direction he takes it. Yeah, it's effective.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. So that's Reginald Holmes. And he was from a family of very successful boat makers. And he was rich. He had a big mansion at McMahon's Point. His business was in Lavender Bay. All your favorite places. And he has a wife, two children. He's a regular at the Royal Sydney Yacht Club. He's a pillar of the local Presbyterian church, But he was also a smuggler and a fraudster, as they call him. Yes. So what he would do was he hired men to drive motorboats out to sea that would pick up packages that sailors would throw off of boats. And the packages would be full of cocaine, or they would be full of cigarettes, or they would be full of other things that you weren't allowed to have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This some straight fucking Boardwalk Empire shit right here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You guys seen this? Yeah. This guy's nookie. Watch it. It's a fucking great show, Reg.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Jim Smith drove one of those boats. So that's how they all kind of know each other. And so that's. The cops are starting to find all of this out. And they also find out that the two, Reg and Jim had started a racket with a convicted forger named Patrick Brady. Here's Patrick Brady, Not, I wouldn't say as much of a classy gent as Reg. Yeah, probably didn't go to the yacht club that much. Just. This is very superficial, but

[Georgia Hardstark]

old Pat

[Karen Kilgariff]

Brady, I think, was like the whiskey and nice head of hair, though, I think.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was good at drawing because he was a forger.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he's probably smart, real sharp. But I bet he had a foul mouth. All right, so the three of them are doing this thing where Patrick Brady makes checks. And he would get. They would get the name of Reg's fancy friends and the people that he would make boats for, and they would make fake checks. And then, I believe, Jim Smith would go cash those checks. And so they were in that ring of deceit and deception. I don't know what I'm saying. But apparently, and the police find out that Jim started blackmailing Reginald Holmes and obviously was not a good idea. So on April 7, 1935, Jim Smith tells his wife that he's gonna go fishing, but instead, he went and played cards with Patrick Brady at the Cecil Hotel in Cronulla. Fuck, yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck, yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much. It felt good. It was like. I just didn't think about it. I just was like, I'll just say it. I don't want to overthink it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because you get. We're starting to get, like, scared of saying places.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm scared of words and letters.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, numbers. Don't get me started on numbers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Maps. I can't even.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so he lies. This is what I love. He lies to his wife, says he's gonna go fishing, and instead he goes and plays cards. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Roll those dice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Patrick Brady had a rented cottage nearby where they were drinking and playing cards. And that comes into play later. So a taxi driver testifies that he picked up Patrick Brady from Canola and he drove him to Reginald Holmes house at 3 Bayview street in McMahon's Point. Apparently very nice area, or was in 1935. And on the same day that Jim Smith went missing. And the cab driver said, quote, he was disheveled, he had a hand in his pocket that he wouldn't take out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What do you think is in there?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like an arm? His hand was holding down an arm. No, I don't know. What if he cut the bottom out of his pocket and he was holding hands with the arm? No, this is a criminal. You have to think like a criminal. Okay, so Patrick Brady's arrested, so they get that testimony they arrest Patrick Brady. On May 16, they charge him with the murder of Jim Smith. When the police bring in Reginald Holmes to question him because they know he's in the circuit, Reg says he's never met Patrick Beatty. He doesn't know who they're talking about. So he ends up. They ends up letting him go there. They don't have anything to hold him on, so he leaves, goes home. Four days later, May 20, he goes into his boat shed and attempts suicide by shooting himself in the head with a.32.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Reginald does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Reginald does.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Richie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Richie Rich. Reginald. But here's the thing. The bullet flattened against the bone in his forehead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so he was merely stunned. What,

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you make that up?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wish I did. It would be such good writing. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's some forehead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that's like a fucking plate.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he stuns himself by shooting himself in the fucking head. Stunning.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's stunning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's stunning. It is stunning. He falls in. He's like in his boat or whatever. He falls into the water. He falls into the water. The water revives him from a bullet to the head. And he comes to. He gets into his boat and he starts driving around Sydney Harbor. He disrupts the ferry services.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you think he's just screaming?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The fuck just happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guts don't work on my head. That's what I'd be yelling.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You fucking come at me, you sons of bitches. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He does this for four hours.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit. I mean, what would you do, right? Who among us would lose their shit?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who among us is right? He finally takes out of the harbor, goes 2 kilometers out to sea, and he finally just stops. He allows the police to come on board, and he says to the police, jimmy Smith is dead, and there's only another left. If you leave me until tonight, I will finish him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, okay. Cops were like, sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's like we suspect. We're the police and we suspect you of being involved in a murder. And then you're like, look, I don't know that guy, but if you just give me a day, I'll kill him. Yeah, Reg. Yeah, Reg. Get your shit together.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. What'd you get? The fucking concussion when you shot yourself in the head.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What? Did that somehow affect you mentally that you shot yourself right in the fucking head? Okay, so there's an empty bottle of brandy in the boat. Of course, could have had something to do with it, but also could have been a bullet to the head. So Detective Sergeant Frank Matthews questions Reg, and he says. He spills it. He says, Patrick Brady killed Jim Smith, dismembered his body, put it in a trunk and threw it into Gunnamatta Bay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking nobody knows what that is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, everybody's like, we don't have that here. You got that from the wrong article.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we go to a different bay. That's not our bay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not our bay. They call that putting a body onto a trunk and throwing it into the bay. They call that a Sydney sendoff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not an accusation. I got it. I got it from sydneydictionary.org.

[Georgia Hardstark]

wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not even dot com. That's a dot org. So they know what they're talking about. Au slash edu.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so go on, tell me more. This is fucking crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's insane. So then he claimed that Patrick Brady came to his house, showed him Smith's severed arm. Hey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Choking around with us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I did.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Back in the pocket.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then threaten Holmes with murder if he did not immediately receive $500. Wait.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, hey, I have the earrings on too. I forgot. Go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What doesn't this story have that you're not completely focused on everything? I can't give you more than this. No story will ever be more interesting. And you're fucking touching your earrings.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen. Attention span of a 3 year old right here. Go on. I'm sorry. I'm here with you. I'm here with you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm supporting you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay? They start up a corners inquest in Mizen. Mine as well as yours. That's how I knew what one was. Okay, so the day before the coroner's inquest, reg Holmes withdraws $500 from his bank account. And in late in the evening, he tells his wife that he has to go meet someone. They lie to their wives so much in 1935.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe if you were honest to your wife, you wouldn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

His wife's like, get out of here. His forehead is so hard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can go anywhere you want. Get away from me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, lie to me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're like a monster. Okay. Early the next morning, which is the day of the coroner's inquest, June 11, 1935, Reginald Holmes is found dead in the driver's seat of his Nash sedan with three gunshot wounds to the chest. Oh, no. And he is the Inquest star witness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He wasn't invincible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He isn't. Well, they didn't get him here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he was never offered police protection.

[Guest (Jo)]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he was. So. But. So there's a guy named Alex Castles who's a professor and he wrote a book in 1995 called the Shark Arm Murders, which everyone should read. I definitely am going to. Just to see if it's actually real. It would be amazing if, like, the sydneydictionary.org was just a prank website and it's like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And everyone here knew it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She fucking fell for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's my little brother. Are you stupid? But Professor Cassels believes that Reginald Holmes took out a contract on his own life because to spare his family the shame of him going to jail. Oh, that's his theory.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because the crime scene was made to appear like Holmes had committed suicide, except for there were three bullet wounds in his chest.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, that would.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'd have to really be fucking dedicated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, Just one more. Yeah. He's like, I've tried this before. It didn't work. I'm gonna triple down on this one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm just really gonna focus and I'm gonna. Just set my intention. I'm gonna do some slight yogic breathing. Okay. The police have no doubt that he's been murdered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shot three times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, yes. And. But also they find out that Jim Smith. They believe that Jim Smith was killed by Patrick Brady on the orders of gangland figure Eddie Wyman, who was arrested while attempting to forge a check in 1934, the year before. And the reason he got arrested was because of a tip that Jim Smith had given to the police because he was a police gig informant.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen, that's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're on the same wavelength.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So when that happens and Jim Smith is exposed as a police informant, all of the seedy underworld billiards hall denizens know that he's a stool pigeon. And he basically has a target on his very soft forehead. Yes. Right at the top of his arm. Okay, so here's the thing. The inquest starts on June 12, 1935, but the case against Patrick Brady falls apart because there's no evidence. So Brady's lawyer, Clive Evatt, actually claimed there was not enough substance to even begin the inquest. He argued that an arm quote, does not constitute a body, which you can't argue with that. It's just part. And that Jim Smith, minus his arm, could very well be alive somewhere else. Which is true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. Ooh. What if he was like, oh, buddy, they're gonna come after me, take my arm. I'm gonna get the fuck out of here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you keep this. You show them my arm, then do a bunch of other crazy shit, then

[Georgia Hardstark]

do whatever the fuck you want.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do what you want. You'll take. I never liked this tattoo anyway. It's kind. It's too big and it doesn't obvious. I'm not that into boxing. I was drunk and my friend made me do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Brady is found guilty and acquitted. I mean, sorry, not guilty and acquitted. That's the craziest part of the story. He's found guilty and immediately acquitted. So for the next 30 years, Patrick Brady steadfastly maintained he was in no way connected to the murder of Jim Smith. And he died in Sydney on April 18, 1965 at the age of 76. Reginald Holmes was cremated on June 13, 1935, and he left an estate valued at over $34,000 in 1935, which today is millions of dollars.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I would be a millionaire back then. Yeah, well, not really. I'll just be like, doing okay, just

[Karen Kilgariff]

tell them how much money you have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know, right? Well, I'm giving it all to a fucking hurricane, so calm down. What if I just threw it into a hurricane? I hope they're giving some money to the hurricane. Here. Pay off the hurricane. Get out of here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys may have already read this, but this is something like on our Twitter that everyone's retweeting. Cause I. You may have known this, but the state of Florida actually had to put out a warning to its citizens not to shoot at the hurricane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's where we live. Can someone. Can we live here, please?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can yell at us all you want, just as long as no one shoots us. And even though the Navy and the Air Force searched Port Hacking and Gunnamata Bay, the thing you deny exists, but I insist is real, they never found the rest of Jim Smith's body. So he could be alive, but they don't know. That's it. That's the arm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shark.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shark Arm. Murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That crazy was fun, full of twists and turns. Nothing too controversial, you know, for a true crime podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we're back. Karen, any updates on this legendary story?

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are. It's just this one, which is in 2020, a book called Shark,

[Georgia Hardstark]

A Shark,

[Karen Kilgariff]

A Tattooed Arm and Two Unsolved Murders was published about this case. Yes, the authors, Philip Roop and Kevin Meager, are the people who put that book together. So if you want to all the details and have it all laid out for you, I would get Shark Arm, Colon, A Shark, A Tattooed Arm, and Two Unsolved Murders.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then also the dollop did that. I can't remember. It was before or after us?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I used to call Dave when they did good stories, and I'd be like, so since that one was a murder, I'm gonna have to probably take that. Or he would text me and be like, we just covered this. You have to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Oh, that's not fair. He's. And he sends you his notes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, just read this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gareth calls me and he's like, I don't have notes because I don't actually do any homework. God damn it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He really figured it out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, should we get into the hometown? Yes, let's hear the hometown about John Wayne Glover, the Granny Killer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do we.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should we?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we're gonna do. At home. Let's do some hometowns.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But take a bow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if I just threw up immediately? Oh, my God, it's over. Thank God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't. I let Karen choose well, but. Oh, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We got a fun tweet, and we want. There's someone who made us a very great and specific offer. I think her name is Jo. Do you. Are you still here? Are you here?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you moonwalk? And is your name Joe?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Can you please come up here?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep, I see her. There's a door with a. Yeah, you

[Karen Kilgariff]

have to go to that door, wherever you are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

See that husband of mine? Wave to them. Vince. No, you don't have to do it. No one can see you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you. Are you here? Is she there?

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's coming. I see her. She's here. Let her get by.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is she moving?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Move your knees.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is anything happening?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can she have me? Don't spill. Is there popcorn?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some kind of action so that we feel.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's gonna come behind you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stephen, get ready. Be polite, Steven, and find out her name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're trying to teach him manners, but he's a millennial, and you guys know how those are. Oh, yeah. There she is. Hey, there she is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi, Joe. You didn't think we'd take you up?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I remembered it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi, Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It looks like you brought your own microphone. That'd be amazing. Yeah, I do. Does it work?

[Guest (Jo)]

Does it work?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it on?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, if you're gonna threaten us with a good time. Oh, it doesn't work. Thanks, Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was working. Does that one work?

[Guest (Jo)]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Okay, well, listen, you don't need a

[Georgia Hardstark]

microphone to moonwalk, so let's go ahead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, really quick, though. So we're looking at Twitter, and can you just tell the people what you tweeted at us?

[Guest (Jo)]

I said that I'm super good at moonwalking. If you get Tired of talking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we don't ever get tired of talking.

[Guest (Jo)]

I never get tired of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Of moonwalking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But however we like moonwalking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We love.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We love moonwalking. We'd love to see some.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Guest (Jo)]

I don't know how it's going to

[Georgia Hardstark]

work on the floor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On this floor. Well, what about the rope?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you need to take your shoes off? Okay, here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's got holes in her tights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, yes. No, I see it, I see it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that was super good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you. Then we were like, do you have a home? No, it's not gonna work here. Wait.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that wouldn't work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Do you have a hometown or do you have a really embarrassing thing that happened to you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, let's hear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now that you're here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ah, she is. This is a. What do they call it? A double act. When someone's good at two things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. A double act or a person.

[Guest (Jo)]

A lot of people are good at two things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, have you met a lot of people? Have you come to Florida?

[Guest (Jo)]

No, but I won't take a gun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where are you from?

[Guest (Jo)]

I'm from originally from French's Forest, which is near where this hometown is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And where is that? Oh, yeah, nearby here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure. Well, I mean, we're in Sydney compared to Florida. Okay.

[Guest (Jo)]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There was.

[Guest (Jo)]

This was when I was. I look really young for my age.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh,

[Karen Kilgariff]

me too.

[Guest (Jo)]

Just out of high school in the late 80s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You do ever. Did you hear the gasps?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're buying. They're buying it. Joe.

[Guest (Jo)]

We were. They'd been. This is John Wayne Glover, who's the Granny Killer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's known. Oh, yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I saw that one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was gonna do that and I'm like, I can't. I can't bear. I can't bear the burden. This is perfect. Yep.

[Guest (Jo)]

And I was someone else. I've got a twin sister.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's really pretty.

[Guest (Jo)]

I love making that joke.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I get it. That's funny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And wait a second, do you have a podcast too? No, it's for real. Do you really? What is it called?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Zealot.

[Guest (Jo)]

And it's about cults. Are you called.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What are you kidding? What's it called?

[Guest (Jo)]

Zealot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Zealot. Oh, that's a good one.

[Guest (Jo)]

Except my friend Alex, who's here, he's. He. I am so shittier. Because he came up with a much better name.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What is it?

[Guest (Jo)]

See you last Tuesday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good.

[Guest (Jo)]

I'm like six episodes in, so I can't change it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, don't change it. Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Alex.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Start your own podcast. It's really easy. And do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Historical cunts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God, I can't wait to listen to Zealot.

[Guest (Jo)]

Zealot duet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love it. I love Cole. I did the family. I know. Oh, okay.

[Guest (Jo)]

I know. I was. I was kind of shitty because I'm. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, did I miss a lot of shit? I know I missed. Julian Assange was in it and I didn't say that.

[Guest (Jo)]

Yeah, no, he was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Guest (Jo)]

And have you seen photos of her now?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Her hairline.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, we saw that one. Just kept.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She got so many facelifts that her face now starts back here. That's rude. She's very old and dying. Okay, but she's a bad person.

[Guest (Jo)]

Great dresser, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God, such good clothes.

[Guest (Jo)]

So, granny Killer. There'd been a couple of old women killed. And in Mosman, which is very ritzy suburb, this is all North Shore, where everyone's really uptight. And John Wayne Glover hated his mother. And then he got a stepmother, a mother in law that he also hated. And he worked as a pie salesman prospect. Like meat pies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, oh, yeah, I know what a meat pie is.

[Guest (Jo)]

Delicious savory pastries.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But like door to door or.

[Guest (Jo)]

No, nursing home to nursing home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. Oh, no, that's not good.

[Guest (Jo)]

Sometimes old ladies sell pies to their nursing homes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You think he'd be like, I'm gonna get another job, I'm gonna do something different? Nope.

[Guest (Jo)]

And old ladies started to die in the nursing homes he delivered to, but no connection. And he even got in trouble a couple of times for he'd just wander through the nursing homes and just old ladies, old. He was gross. But still no connection. Why would a pie salesman need anything interesting to happen in his life?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, what year was this again?

[Guest (Jo)]

1989.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, you said at the beginning because you're so young, you're so beautiful. Yeah.

[Guest (Jo)]

And he would see old ladies coming home from doing their shopping and follow them back to nearly their front door. And then as they were opening the front door, hit them in the back of the head with a hammer and then take them inside.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he wouldn't.

[Guest (Jo)]

He'd often steal just like $100, but he'd leave their jewelry. And he was basically just saying that. You know, he doesn't really know how he does it. He just hates old ladies and can't control himself. But we wanted to go much beautiful twin sister and I, we wanted to go to. We were invited to two parties one weekend.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Guest (Jo)]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's how it is when you're young.

[Guest (Jo)]

And we weren't allowed to go to the nearby one because someone killing old ladies. We were young, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you aging backwards? And you looked really old then, Gavin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gather.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gather, Garrett. Yes.

[Guest (Jo)]

And so he went to the other party in Moss Men. And that night he killed someone in Mosmel that afternoon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He had.

[Guest (Jo)]

But we hadn't heard from it yet because 1989, we were watching Countdown, not the news. Countdown's a really cool show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Guest (Jo)]

And eventually he got. They made the connection between pies and feeling up old ladies and hitting them on the head. And it would also just steal, like, a hundred dollars. But nothing. No jewelry. And he'd just go to the nearby rsl. That's it. Like, it's the place.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, we can't accept any more new information about this country. I'm sorry. We maxed out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If I don't understand. It's not true.

[Guest (Jo)]

He'd play the pokies with old ladies. Money. Pokies is the thing. Thing you do at a place.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do a lot of smackies. Play poker.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Oh, how many lives?

[Guest (Jo)]

No, it's sort of one or the other, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, got it. Got it.

[Guest (Jo)]

Slot machines.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Slot machines. Got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hello.

[Guest (Jo)]

And yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Guest (Jo)]

Doubling. And when he got caught, he apparently in jail, he just did anything to attract attention. And so he killed himself in 2005. But all the fellow inmates thought he did that for attention and accidentally actually died because he would do lots of things to just say, oh, poor me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he's dead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amazing. Can you do one more moonwalk before you go?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Yeah. Moonwalk away, you guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Jo, everybody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Joe, thank you so much. Perfection.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. That is what we're looking for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's our hometown.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Notes. Listen to zealot. I can't wait.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. I love a cult. Oh, shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God bless, Jo, for making that offer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So good. So good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And really coming through. The vibe was just perfection. It was almost like our birthday party. If the year before the birthday party had been ruined by, like, a tornado. So everyone's like, we're gonna make this the best birthday ever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're gonna show you. Yeah, for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll show you through getting super drunk

[Georgia Hardstark]

and supporting you and having the best accent. Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So do you know if there's any updates for this hometown?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No updates. Not a lot of updates this episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, well, this episode was originally entitled Live at the Enmore Theater.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And if we were naming it today based on the fucking babble that we say during the show, maybe we would call it

[Karen Kilgariff]

one more Tim Tam. My love of Tim Tam's true. I mean, the eating that we were doing on that tour was incredible. So good. And the candy being brought to us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Candy was incredible. The Tim Tams were just top notch. We had a cookie bake off recently at the Exactly Right offices, and I submitted in the store bought category. And Vince, I was like, I don't

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

know what to bring.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Vince brought me home. Tim Tams. And he's like, everyone loves Tim Tams or they've never had them. And he was right. They were a fucking hit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They. They really were. And people do need to know about Tim Tams. It's true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. We could also call it Cold Cream. All over the place. She just looks like she and Thali's just covered in cold cream.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Or give it up for Rats, which is when Georgia was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so ridiculous. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's us having fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, for sure. Or how about piles of thighs?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Rugby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God, the rugby culture we got to be in. And remember, we actually got to meet a real rugby player. A real Australian rugby player.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks for listening, guys. Let's say goodbye from the stage in Sydney in 2017.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good day. Good day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good day,

[Karen Kilgariff]

you guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank God this went the way it did tonight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I thank you. We needed this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We needed it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I needed a win. I needed a cry of joy and not fear, just not outright.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, here's the thing, though. Every. We're so spoiled.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every show pretty much we've ever done, and especially every show on this run here in your gorgeous country has been amazing, amazing, incredible, amazing. Like, insanely polite audiences, insanely responsive audiences. Everyone fucking gets. Everyone's funny. Everyone knows what's going on. So who gives a shit what happened? You know what I mean? Like, you guys just reset us. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. The support of the people who listen to this podcast makes me feel so much joy. It makes us both in awe and every fucking day. Listen, we're divas, but we know how lucky we are. It's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also, it's like, we just. It's just that thing where we're very lucky in that we hit a thing that galvanized a bunch of people, but it's your guys thing. You know what I mean? We all just have the same interest, and we're just lucky enough to be the ones talking about it. Thank you so much for listening to us. Thank you so much for your support. From the bottom of our heart. This was an amazing show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we just like you. Listen, all we want is for you to stay sexy and don't get. Bye Sydney. Thank you,

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Go ahead.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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