Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 89: The Finch

Summary

My Favorite Murder: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 89: The Finch

Podcast: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark, Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts
Release Date: March 25, 2026
Episode Recap & Summary by Sections

---

OVERVIEW

This MFM Rewind revisits Episode 89, “The Finch” (originally aired October 5, 2017), with Karen and Georgia listening back and offering new commentary, updates, and off-the-cuff humor. The episode features:

• Revisiting a classic early My Favorite Murder show, rich with tangents, banter, and vulnerability.
• In-depth retelling and discussion of the Dean Corll “The Candyman” case (one of the most notorious serial killers in U.S. history) and the murder at LA's Silent Movie Theater.
• Candid conversation about friendship dynamics and therapy.
• Listener and live show stories.
• Updates on both cases, with added context from the present day.

---

INTRO: Revisiting 2017 & What to Expect

Timestamps: 04:16–06:00

• Karen and Georgia reflect on the show’s early style: asking questions, not always having the answers (“the podcast where you ask the questions and we don't have the answers”—Karen, 04:45).
• Reminiscing about listener engagement, playful banter about math and family stories.
• The unique MFM tone: mixing personal stories, pop-culture references, and true crime.

Notable Quotes:

• “We teach you how smart you are by not having answers and requesting them.” – Karen, 05:13

---

SEGMENT 1: FRIENDSHIP, THERAPY & LIVE SHOWS

Timestamps: 12:14–18:13

• The hosts thank Detroit and Toronto crowds, recall memorable fans (like the “MFM saves lives” sign in Toronto, 13:10).
• Reflection on fans sharing how MFM normalized going to therapy.
• Honest talk about boundaries, triggers, and why therapy matters.
• Humorous confessions about their own issues (“I go to three therapists a week, and I'm still not fixed.” – Karen, 16:56).

Notable Quotes:

• “Therapy is my fucking... so important, my jam. And, like, if we can do that, then I don't give a shit. Anything else.” – Karen, 17:11

---

SEGMENT 2: PURE MFM CHAOS—TANGENTS, UNDERWEAR, AND TRUE CRIME

Timestamps: 08:02–21:32

• Classic MFM discussing random topics (Aliens and Spaceballs, high-waisted underwear as “underwear museum”).
• Self-awareness about not fitting the standard true crime podcast mold.
• Running jokes about dogs, cats, and recurring show themes.

Notable Quotes:

• “It’s something that I feel like when someone’s like, ‘we don’t like true crime podcasts.’ It’s not that, though. Sometimes it’s... it’s not really anything. It fits.” – Karen, 19:42

---

SEGMENT 3: THE CANDYMAN—THE DEAN CORLL CASE

Timestamps: 21:32–66:39

Georgia recounts the infamous Candyman murders, with color commentary and horror from Karen. They reflect on research, survivor stories, trauma, and the complexities of accomplices in serial murder cases.

Outline:

• Dean Corll’s Modus Operandi & The Night He Was Killed (28:10–33:47)
  • Dramatic retelling of the night Wayne Henley shot Dean Corll, saving his friends and exposing years of abuse/murder.
  • “You’ve gone too far, Dean. I can’t go on any longer. I can’t have you kill all my friends." – Henley (as recounted by Karen, 30:19)
• Discovery of the Bodies & Investigation (33:47–35:46, 43:38–46:48)
  • Police skepticism, grisly evidence, Henley leading authorities to the burial sites, use of inmates to exhume the bodies.
  • “If you had gotten a DUI and... they were like, ‘come dig out’—you’re gonna be fucking scarred for life.” – Karen, 34:13
• Dean Corll’s Grooming and Accomplices: David Brooks & Wayne Henley (35:46–41:43)
  • Corll’s manipulation of vulnerable boys using gifts/money; his identity misrepresented as “homosexual” rather than “pedophile”.
  • “They only pick children who aren’t being protected.” – Georgia, 38:24
• Pattern of Murders & Police Apathy (41:43–55:10)
  • Over 28 boys abducted and murdered within three years; victims aged 9–21, most from the same locality, the Heights.
  • Disbelief, blaming runaways, and systemic failures in Houston PD during a period of overwhelming crime and staff shortages.
  • “The thought of being a parent and not being... you know your kid better than anyone. There’s something wrong.” – Karen, 55:40
• Aftermath: Prosecution & Ongoing Trauma (57:06–66:23)
  • Both Henley and Brooks sentenced to life; authorities halt further searches, possibly to keep death toll lower.
  • Ongoing trauma, guilt, and empathy for the victims and their families.
  • “Dean Corll didn’t just kill 27 boys, he killed 27 families.” – Quoting a victim’s brother, 64:29
• Recent Updates (66:36–68:10)
  • David Brooks died of COVID-19 in prison (2020).
  • Henley’s parole denied (Nov 2025).
  • New books and documentaries continue to probe the depth of the case, notably "The Scientist and the Serial Killer" (2025).

Notable/Haunting Moments:

• “Can I just tell you, I've been studying this one ... and I had two days to do it. And I'm like, no, you're not. This is too much. ... And I. So I've been doing it for three weeks and having fucking nightmares.” – Karen, 51:01

---

SEGMENT 4: THE SILENT MOVIE THEATER MURDER (Karen’s Story)

Timestamps: 72:40–99:29

Karen recounts the murder of Larry Austin at LA’s iconic Silent Movie Theater, with Georgia and Karen trading memories about LA, Largo, and the web of deception behind this infamous crime.

Outline:

• History and Culture of the Silent Movie Theater (73:34–79:57)
  • Larry Austin’s decades-long devotion to the theater, living above it, helping its original proprietors.
  • Reopening the theater, working alongside contractor (and lover) James Van Sickle.
• The Crime—Murder on the Anniversary (80:56–85:56)
  • During a packed screening, Larry is executed point-blank in an apparent robbery, along with employee Mary Giles (who miraculously survives two shots to the chest).
• Investigation & Betrayal (87:41–97:46)
  • Police suspicion falls on Van Sickle, who stood to inherit the (possibly not legally his) theater.
  • Their tumultuous relationship comes to light: past assault, on-again/off-again status, financial desperation.
  • Van Sickle had hired Christian Rodriguez (age 19) for $25,000 to murder Larry, with a $5,000 bonus for killing others (hence shooting Mary).
  • Rodriguez flips on Van Sickle after not being paid and is convicted alongside him for life without parole.
  • Heartbreaking detail: Van Sickle used a letter from Larry attesting to his “good character” for a prior charge.
• Cultural Fallout & LA Connections (Largo Benefit, Documentary Attempts)**
  • Intimate art/entertainment world in LA: neighbors at Largo hold benefit for Larry not knowing Van Sickle is the culprit.
  • Ongoing fascination: attempts at documentaries, the ongoing curse/history around the space.

Notable Quotes:

• “He basically comes down and says, we want to have a memorial. Memorial fundraiser. ... The same night that they have this, which was March 12th of 1997, is the same night that the police begin to surveil James Van Sickle.” – Georgia, 87:52

• “He was the projectionist the night of the murder. ... He came downstairs. He was the one that hit the alarm that got the police there when he went downstairs and found Larry's body.” – Georgia, 94:32

• “That's so sad.” — Karen, on Larry’s trust of Van Sickle, 97:45

---

SEGMENT 5: UPDATES ON CASES

Timestamps: 100:22–102:22

Candyman

• David Brooks died of COVID-19, 2020; Henley’s parole denied (2025), next hearing in 2035.
• Several books and documentaries released in 2025 on Dr. Sharon Derrick’s victim identification work and the question of accomplice responsibility.

Silent Movie Theater

• After the 2017 episode, Cinefamily formally shuttered due to financial and sexual harassment scandals.
• Brief rebrand as The Fairfax, then closed during COVID.
• In 2020, streetwear brand Brain Dead took over the theater, hosts events and screenings.

---

SEGMENT 6: PERSONAL UPDATES & GOOD VIBES

Timestamps: 102:25–106:10

• Lighthearted sharing of “good things of the week”—both accidentally buy the same brass floor lamp at Target, commiserate about how small home upgrades bring joy (“Our periods are synced, our lamps are synced,” Karen, 103:51).
• Emphasizing small victories—clear your piles of mail, treat yourself to something homey to change your day.
• More banter about friendship, “Hi, my wife,” and mutual routines.

---

SEGMENT 7: EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS & WRAP-UP

Timestamps: 106:13–107:48

• Alternate episode titles: “Rocket Businessman,” “Seven Red Flags,” “New Math,” “Hi My Wife”, “There’s No Fixing, We’re Not Cats.”
• Reflecting that beneath the jokes, MFM contains substantial wisdom, honesty, and empathy for victims.

Farewell
“Stay Sexy and Don’t Get Murdered. Bye.” (107:23)

---

THEMES & TAKEAWAYS

• Vulnerability & Humor: MFM’s tonal balance—heartfelt, honest, often laugh-out-loud, never losing sight of the gravity of the crimes.
• Empathy & Survivor Focus: Reiterating the importance of not sensationalizing, but understanding trauma, and humanizing victims and their families.
• Critical of Institutions: Ongoing critique of law enforcement failures, societal disregard for marginalized or “runaway” children, and what happens when systems break down.
• Lasting Impact: Both of these cases—Dean Corll and the Silent Movie Theater—left psychic wounds in their communities that continue to be revisited in culture and media.

---

MEMORABLE QUOTES (with Timestamps)

• “Therapy is my fucking... so important, my jam. And, like, if we can do that, then I don't give a shit. Anything else.” – Karen, 17:11
• “Dean Corll didn’t just kill 27 boys, he killed 27 families.” – 64:29
• “If you are ever in a scenario, age anything up till at any point in your life…someone says, let's play the handcuff game. Immediately walk out of the room and call the police.” – Georgia, 49:18
• “Our periods are synced, our targets are synced, and our lamps are synced.” – Karen, 103:51

---

SUGGESTED EPISODE TITLES

1. Rocket Businessman
2. Seven Red Flags
3. New Math
4. Hi, My Wife
5. There’s No Fixing—we’re not cats

---

FINAL REFLECTION

This episode is a time capsule of everything that made early MFM beloved: irreverent, intimate, unfiltered conversation; deep dives into notorious crimes; real honesty about trauma, therapy, and unresolved feelings; and always, the humanity at the heart of every story.

"Stay Sexy and Don’t Get Murdered."

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right. Even when you hate everything, it's hard not to love Hyundai's Electric EV Lineup

[Georgia Hardstark]

from smart safety tech to long term warranties, Hyundai's EVs are built to impress.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hyundai's electric EV lineup includes advanced safety features like Highway Driving Assist too and Blind Spot Collision Avoidance Assist. Available on models like the Ioniq 5, Ioniq 5 N and Ioniq 9.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hyundai's EVs come with America's best warranty, including a 10 year or 100,000 mile powertrain limited warranty. Learn more about Hyundai EVs at Hyundai USA.com call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Karen Kilgariff]

America's Best Warranty Claim based on total package of warranty programs. See Dealer for limited warranty details. See your Hyundai dealer for further details and limitations.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a lot in life you can't

[Karen Kilgariff]

control traffic, Daylight Savings bees, but taking

[Georgia Hardstark]

care of your mental health is one

[Karen Kilgariff]

thing you can take control with Talkspace

[Georgia Hardstark]

it's easy to get started with Talkspace. You can easily sign up online and get PA with a licensed provider, typically within 48 hours.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Talkspace makes getting help convenient. You can take your appointments from the comfort and privacy of your own home and you can even talk it out between sessions by sending text messages to your therapist.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get Therapy and Medication all in one Place Unlike other telehealth companies, psychiatry is available through Talkspace, so you can get the medication you need to supplement your

[Karen Kilgariff]

talk therapy if needed.

The idea that Talkspace has figured out how to take out that extra step and basically when you're in therapy then the app is going to help you fill your prescription that is is so helpful to people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Having them all in one place makes it so much easier to actually follow through with it, which is so hard when you're not in a good place. So I love that they're all in one place so you can just do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As a listener of this podcast, you'll get 80 off your first month with Talk Space when you go to talkspace.com mfm and enter promo code SPACE80.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's S P A C E 80

[Karen Kilgariff]

to match with the licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com mFM and enter promo code SPACE80.

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Internet loves to say Go touch grass as though lawns aren't a constant source of stress.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Brown Patch Personal Failure Fertilizer Grow Up

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sundae is a yard care company designed to make that easier.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They analyze your soil, use climate data and build a custom yard plan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sundae uses nutrient dense ingredients, not Harsh chemicals.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which feels better already.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go to getsunday.com to get your free custom yard analysis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's getsunday.com goodbye. Sometimes you need a trip that actually feels like an escape, not just a change of scenery.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's exactly what Baja Mar and Nassau delivers between the casino and the water park. Like I could have stayed there for months.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were so lucky to get to visit this place and it truly I just kept saying like, this is such a good idea where you immediately want to be in a tropical location, but then you also want to go out to dinner that night. That is the ultimate vacation for me of you're getting a little treat of everything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's paradise. Plan your own getaway at Baja. Goodbye. New habits, new routines, big plans.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So why are your dogs eating the same brown mystery kibble every day?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Start the new year off right for your dog with just fresh from Just Food for Dogs. It's real human grade food and it's shelf stable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the game changer. No freezer takeover. It just fits.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can see the difference with just fresh, more energy, shinier coats and dogs who are suddenly emotionally invested in dinner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If the new year is about doing better, this is one of those changes

[Georgia Hardstark]

that's really easy to stick with.

There's something love about feeding Cookie like real human grade looking dog food that makes me feel like I'm showing her she's part of the family and not just giving her some like sad kibble which like she just doesn't look happy when she's eating it. But she's so stoked when Just Food for Dogs comes out and they make treats.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So go to justfood for dogs.com and get 50 off your first order with no code needed. Do better for them while doing it for you.

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Every Wednesday we recap our old episodes with all new commentary and updates and insights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Today we're recapping episode 89, which we named the Finch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This episode came out on October 5, 2017.

That was so long ago.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 89.

Hello and welcome to my favorite Murder

[Karen Kilgariff]

the podcast where you ask the questions and we don't have the answers. And why would we like we're not answer people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We, you know that we've said it a million times. And also get your own answers. Whoops, whoops.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then give them to us. Please email them to my favorite murdermail dot com.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't forget to Instagram Some answers. Take a picture of the answers and send them to George on Instagram.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys are so smart. Mm. You really are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You absolutely are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is a teaching podcast. We teach you how smart you are by not having answers and requesting them. Maybe we do have answers and we're not really telling you because we want you to learn them yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, it is. It does invite the listener in to participate. Hey, we're gonna tell you this story. Are we wrong? Let us know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's this thing where. When I was a kid and this fucking pissed me off more than anything, when I'd asked my mom how to spell something and she'd say, look it up, look it up. We have a whole set of dictionaries or whatever the fuck. Fuck. You just spell this three letter word for me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what that was? She didn't know how to spell it. Hello. It's a classic mom trick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mom, you asshole.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pretend to be teaching because you don't know. That's like my dad going. Me complaining about I can't do math. Him going, well, just tell me what the problem is. Me being like, no, I don't want to open this door. Three hours later, my dad's screaming about new math.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Screaming, like trying to read the book anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. From the beginning. He's gonna help me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let me look at the beginning of this chapter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hold on. Let me just read this. Forget it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Forget it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For. And also, it's helped me in no way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Math.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, math has helped me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, basic. Basic algebra. All you need.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And even then, really, what are these concepts? It's almost like in algebra, they're trying to get you. It's like, I don't have to, like, plan the projection of a rocket ship to get from here to Mars. It's never going to happen in my life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A rocket person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. Scientist, they call something business.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A rocket businessman, I think we call them woman. I'm not gonna be. Or a mathematician.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A rocket businessman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Woman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Woman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, let's not. I'm sorry, I. Please edit that out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Person, person, person, person.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It could be any gender fluid.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You could sell rocket ships. You could ride on rocket ships and just be the accountant on the rocket ship.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's got to be someone who sells parts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where. Where's that guy in the alien series? Where is the rocket ship accountant that gets eaten first? Oh, I wonder if that's Paul Reiser. Was the irritating guy in at least one of the alien series?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Was he the one who got his stomach busted open?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Although something bad did Happen to him. I shouldn't say no because. But I think the one. I know the one you're thinking of, which is the one where they all had to witness it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Man, I need to rewatch that movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the best movie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That and Spaceballs I haven't seen in too long.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Very similar, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Similar films, same kind of idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm thinking of Aliens too, though, right? Paul Reiser's and Steven. Aliens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're getting a yes from young Steven who knows science.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Steven, Those are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those are some of my favorite movies. And yeah, Paul Reiser, you know, he. He get, you know, he has to get it in the end. Spoilers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because he's douchebag. He's the corporate douchebag that's like, hey, we got to do this. So, you know, hey, I'm here to do something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he's in charge. Can I say Sigourney Weaver from the first Aliens is my underwear museum?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those cotton, high waisted underwear that are a little loose, they're the sexiest thing. Like that's. I stopped wearing G strings when I saw that as an adult, I have

[Georgia Hardstark]

to tell you, those underwear are only sexy if you have really long legs. If you don't, you look like someone's grandma.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is a genre for some people. Sure. I don't want to. I don't want to kink shame anybody, God forbid, but you really need to have the pigs to make those grandma underwear work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amen. And I don't, so also, you can't have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If it was a realistic movie of her working on a spaceship and being all like, bedraggled by being chased by aliens, you know, she would have had like some razor burn, full bush. She would have had bush coming out of those underwear. She's not waxing up in space.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen, I'm a feminist. Do whatever you want with your bush. Listen, I don't want to see it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? I mean, that's not your specific thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that's not my kink.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's not your kink. Perhaps it's someone else's. Everybody's included and everybody's supported.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is a murder podcast, guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you here for true crime? Well, that's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is this your first time listening? You are not at the wrong place.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't leave, don't leave.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't go. We're about to talk about murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't leave us. I have a specifically gruesome one today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you really?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not gruesome. It's just that I've been working on it. Anyways, I have to shout out a couple things. This will be quick. Everyone okay? Someone named Julia UR H u r made a fucking eight bit video game of my favorite murder.

That's right.

And it is. I almost started crying when I saw it. Then she's playing it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Steven loves it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the beginning, you fight doctors and nurses, evil doctors and nurses that are trying to kill you. It's you and me and Elvis. And the way we kill people is Elvis attacks them. And then you have to go to the Cecil Hotel. You can take elevators up to kill certain, like different kinds of killers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This like eight bit music. It's all eight bit, but it's like incredible. And so you go, okay, this is a weird. Julia, we need you to fix this website. It's J U K E L itch IO I'm sorry if I actually have sent you to a.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Some kind of virus underpants kink sites.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. But I don't think it is. You can go play this video game. I don't know what she's gonna do with it, but she needs to conquer the world with it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now I have to tell you, sadly, I am so old, I am from beef. I predate eight bit video games. So, like, I know that that's the 90s kids. It's a big deal to them. Cause they played them and it's the whole like Oregon Trail style shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh yeah, I played that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm older than that. I'm older than that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you guys didn't have computer labs in your.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you know. Well, we didn't have them anyway because it was Catholic school, which is super cheap. Like our scrap paper. We use paper. That was the old menus from restaurants in town.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you kidding me? I swear to God. That kind of sounds cool because I love menus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it was fun. And I. My friend Ken Mason, one of my first friends because I went there in sixth grade. So I was new, he was also new. And he turned to me and goes, ma', am, may I take your order this morning? And I was like, hi, new best friends. Hi, best person ever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, But I was gonna say our. I think I've told you this already. Our version of computer Lab, quote unquote, was. They taught us basically how to enter code where they're like. They basically made a. We were working for the school where they're like, enter this on this line and this on this line and we were just doing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like having you do their books.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it was like data entry where they're like, put in 01010101, all the way across. It was ridiculous. We had no idea what it was, how it applied to the computers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It doesn't. Yeah, it's like math. Not necessary unless you're a rocket businessman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Business and math are extraneous bullshit that you don't need to be taught.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen, I know email. Look, I know some things. I know how to blog.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, a couple things I could write

[Karen Kilgariff]

about myself for hours.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should I mention first? We should say, thank you so much. We went to Detroit and Toronto last weekend.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucking nicest crowds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Incredible crow, incredible shows. We had the best time. I didn't tweet anything about it because I. On my way home, I was like, oh, no, it's too late. I didn't want to do a. Like, I didn't want to do everybody at once. But they were such good shows. And at the Toronto show, this was my favorite part. And when I told my sister, she started crying. There was a woman. There was people who were holding up signs in the audience. It was really funny. But of course, I don't have my glasses on, so I didn't. I just saw that there were like,

[Karen Kilgariff]

I need to remember that and point shit out to you. Yeah, because, like, I forget that. I think that you're not pointing it out because you don't want to. But, like, remember when the two girls dressed as the Shining twins were in the front row? Like, if I hadn't fucking pointed that out to you, I would have cried.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was like, that's embarrassing. Those two girls wore the same outfit

[Karen Kilgariff]

and they're sitting next to each other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But there was a girl. I told my sister this story. There was a girl that we met afterwards who was holding up a sign that said, MFM saves lives. And when I told my sister, she burst into tears. Where I'm just like. But the best part about it was, so that's a brag, brag celebrity. As we do. But when we met her at the meet and greet afterwards, she goes, I thought everyone was going to have a sign. And I was like, this isn't a march. You're at a live show. She for some reason had it in her head that everybody was going to have a sign to hold up at the show. She was so nice. It was the cutest thing in the world. It was really fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was a big. I remember walking out and seeing it. It was a really Big sign. And I was like, oh, the people behind her are so pissed off. It's like all I could say, not like, oh, my God, how nice. I was like, oh, f. No, it was really sweet and it was hilarious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And, God, we're just so fucking lucky.

We're so lucky.

These the best people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. It's so fun. So thank you, Detroit. Thank you, Toronto. I was going insane trying to enter Mindhunters, the new David Fincher series, into my dvr. I was doing it. I'm like, every time I would do it, it wouldn't accept it. I'm like, what the fuck? I'm too late. I'm too early, I'm too early, I'm too early. Well, now I know for a fact it's starting, I believe, on October 13th.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I cannot wait.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I cannot wait. Finally, I put it together. I had to look it up online. It's a Netflix series. There is nothing to program in my dvr. It was making means. Because I'm like, I'm going to miss it. And so anyone else who might be having that experience. It's a Netflix series that you can't preplan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's going to be so good. We're going to talk about it. We're going to have an extra minisode just to talk about it. Yes, please watch it together.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. And then have a whole talk down because it's distracting me. There's lots of people that I love sending me suggestions constantly. And you on. On Twitter of. Have you seen this? Have you seen that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I kind of did my. I felt bad the other night when I was like, watch this thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You have to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then I was, like, texting back. I'm sorry. You don't have to do anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're very careful. We're trying to be very careful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very careful with each other's triggers. Right. We're perfect together because we're the exact triggers for each other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, we are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which I love. I think we're each other's sisters.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Personalities.

Yes.

You're my sister, and I'm your sister.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're not. You're not my sister, but she's too

[Karen Kilgariff]

fucking cool for me.

No,

I love her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's. She is the greatest. No. Weird. It's just. It's almost like everything that I've ever worried about myself, I see in you. And then I get mad at you that I was like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like that crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I get scared of. I just. I always make friends with these women who have big Personalities. And I get intimidated. And I get intimidated easily. And I don't act like myself, which they see and isn't fun. And then I change and get controlling and shit. And weird.

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because it makes sense to me, though, when you have. Because I also make friends with people with big personalities. And you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're a compliment. I fucking love badass women.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I want to be friends with them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But you have to also have boundaries, and you have to be able to hold your own shit and, like, know, like, I have a big personality, but I also absolutely want to know what you want. Like, it's hard to manage that sometimes because I come from a family of screaming Irish people that are, like, terrified of screaming people. Shut the door. That's standard talking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I'm like, she hates me. What did I do? I need to fix this. I'm gonna be really nice to her. And then you're just like, she's annoying the shit out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I'm like, what's that tone in her voice? I think she might be snapping. Yeah, it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're great guys. We're working. Look at us. We're. Therapy is. My God, can you imagine life without therapy?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It would be bad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I go to three therapists a week, and it's. And I'm still not fixed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I go to 2. Will never be fixed. No, there's no fixing. We're not cats. It's just. Right. We're just. You're just always working on it. It's just our project, and we have this project.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Be honest. The best thing when we. After the shows, when we meet people, is when they say, I went to therapy because you guys were so open about it. To me, that's like, therapy is my fucking. So important, my jam. And, like, if we can do that, then I don't give a shit. Anything else.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. It's such a weird side effect that we had no idea was going to happen. And people have told. On all of those shows, we had people at those meet and greets saying, I went back, or I went for the first time or whatever it is. We're so grateful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was one girl who was like, my therapist made me come tonight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, that's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you remember? She came alone. She was like, my therapist told me I have to come.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

All right.

Then we get obsessed with like, did you meet those girls over there? They're really nice. Like, we want the. We want a friend match.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love it anyhow. David Fincher, Netflix, Mindhunters. I cannot wait. It's based on. It's based on early FBI serial killing profiling and how serial killers, like, it's just about all that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's everything we love.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Finch, the Finch with this beautiful shots of, like, a 70s Zodiac. Nova. Yes, Zodiac.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And how gorgeous it was. This is going to be a Netflix thing. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's going to be a weekly series of beautiful shots.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck, fuck, fuck. I'm so excited. Okay. Anything else?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think whatever else there is that is dominating my mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Fincher thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Who goes first this week? Me. Yeah. For going by Toronto. I don't even know what we go by anymore, but I'm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, that's what we go by.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just the shows.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoever went.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Okay, cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We do it by our own personal calendar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like the Jewish calendar, but it's my favorite murder calendar. All right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're as old as the Jewish calendar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We really are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And historic.

And we are back. And that eight bit game is still up and running.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't that crazy?

I mean, legendary.

Yeah.

You can play this game if you would like to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We'll put a link to it somewhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think this episode is really funny. It's like a classic example of what this show is totally. It's like. Like, the things we talk about are completely typical. It's the same shit for 10 years. It's hilarious.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, right off the bat, it's. This is a show where we ask questions and they don't get answers, and it's. That's still correct. We talk about underwear style. We talk like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's something that I feel like when

[Georgia Hardstark]

someone's like, we don't like true crime podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like. It's. It's not that, though. Sometimes it's.

It's not. It's not really anything. It fits.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A cookie cutter.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, there's no cookie mold cutter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We don't allow cookies here. We never have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, wait. How cookie, though?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Except for your dog, literally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And giving one to my cat every episode. So we've always left.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, right. Actually, that's a recurring. A very important recurring theme in this show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's literally in every episode. Okay, so we were talking about the Fincher, your favorite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. I thought I was being cool making up a nickname for David Fincher. Because sometimes if you already have your nickname ready when you meet that person in life, it's like, well, we're friends, because we're already doing it.

Did you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he made the Hollywood black and white Hollywood drama M A n K. Do you know that that is Josh Mankiewicz's dad that he's talking about?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, what the. What a full circle random ass thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Josh Mankiewicz is like old blue blood Hollywood in a way that's like Hail Caesar. You saw that movie, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's basically. I think I could be wrong, but I think Josh Mankiewicz's father was what Josh Brolin was doing in that movie. Like a studio fixer type of guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, it's so cool and legendary and not in the gross like Nepo baby way they are always talking about these days. It's just like, oh, you have clout

[Karen Kilgariff]

and then you're gonna use it to

[Georgia Hardstark]

do something awesome with your life as well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Lovely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Both his father and him. It's crazy.

Yeah, Love that.

Very cool. What a family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should we get into it? This is like one of my top cases. One of the cases that I hate, that I could just read about over and over and there's. It's totally solved, but there's still so much haunting me about it. I think all of us, that it's so haunting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's utterly depraved and just like a horror movie.

Yeah.

This is George's story covering the Candyman. Dean Corl.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In a world where everything lives online, it's hard to actually stand out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Create a unique website that reflects who you are and what you do with Squarespace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Squarespace offers powerful design tools that make it easy to build a beautiful professional website that fits your brand or business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Getting started is easy. You'll choose from a library of award winning website templates. And with their intuitive drag and drop editing and beautiful styling options, you'll be up and running in no time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Squarespace lets you showcase consultations, events and experiences and then get paid with professional invoices and online payments.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can offer courses, videos, blogs or memberships directly on your site, all behind a paywall you control.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Check out squarespace.com murder for a free

[Georgia Hardstark]

trial and when you're ready to launch, use Offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye. If you get an alert from your security camera, ignoring it could lead to disaster.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Luckily, they're Simplisafe, a home security system backed by 24. 7 monitoring that can act when you can't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Traditional security systems alert you after someone

[Karen Kilgariff]

has already broken in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's too late. Simplisafe's Active Guard Outdoor Protection is designed to help stop a break in before it happens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

SimpleLife protects over 4 million people and brings 20 years of home security experience.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's no wonder that they were named Best Home security system of 2026 by US News and World Report.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love the way SimpliSafe makes everything so easy. Like the idea that there are cameras set up so easy that you can just check those cameras on your phone that the second you have a thought that maybe something is going on in

[Georgia Hardstark]

some part of the house, you just

[Karen Kilgariff]

like pick up your phone. It's all right there. And then if that's not something you can do, there are people that work there that do it for you. So you're always covered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the best of everything. And right now our listeners can get 50% off their SimpliSafe system at simplisafe.com fave that's simplisafe.com fav there's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

There's something magical about opening your closet and being excited about what you see inside.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Quince makes elevated essentials you'll love wearing now and for years to come.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk and organic cotton poplin.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They have lightweight cotton cashmere sweaters that are perfect for changing seasons, plus fresh spring colors and prints that are easy to wear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were just on a little work vacation and I pulled out a Quint skirt that I bought, I don't know, four years ago or something and it was like the perfect throw it on resort wear. I mean it was like I'd planned it for all that time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right now. Go to quince.com mfm for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now available in Canada too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to q u I-n c e.com for free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Quint.commfm Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Believe it or not, spring is almost

[Karen Kilgariff]

here and that means it's time to clean, reorganize and of course question all of your furniture.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now you can upgrade it thoughtfully with Article.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Article makes it effortless to create a stylish home with long lasting pieces at an unbeatable price.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They offer a curated range of mid century, modern, coastal and scandi inspired pieces that pair seamlessly with other article products.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Article takes great care in curating its collection, focusing solely on meaningful pieces that'll stand the Test of time. There's no filler. Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design and lasting value.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With Article's 30 day satisfaction guarantee, you

[Karen Kilgariff]

can shop with confidence, knowing that if

[Georgia Hardstark]

you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. This peace of mind ensures you can invest in your home without hesitation. It's true. I do love how their pieces go together. And I love the term pieces because I used to pick up furniture off

[Karen Kilgariff]

the side of the road and now

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have gorgeous article scandi inspired pieces in my house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My classy pieces are from Article.

If you're in the market for a beautiful new sofa, dining table or bed, head over to article.com goodbye. Allergy season always has a way of sneaking up on you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One minute you're listening to your favorite podcast, the next it's non stop sneezing and a runny nose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's why it's essential to keep Kleenex Ultra Soft tissues on hand. They're silky soft for up to 100% Irritation Free skin and allergist approved so

[Georgia Hardstark]

when allergies hit and they will be ready with Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues for whatever happens next.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Grab Kleenex.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you ready for Dean Coral the Candyman? Oh, I went there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You went there?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I went there.

Shit.

I went there. Big shout out right now to the Texas monthly article the Lost Boys by Skip Hollingsworth, who I feel like we reference a lot. He writes incredible murder articles.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Skip Hollingsworth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hollingsworth Holland Worth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's called the Lost Boys. It's got a lot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like he wrote one that I did that was from Texas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's been on our. He's been on the show before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's awesome. And then also I want to shout out Marcus Parks from hell.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucking last podcast on the left for all the research that I did, like a four part episode that's like got a lot of details that this doesn't have because I'm not going to do four parts of this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it's so. Their version of it was such a deep dive but also so upsetting. There were things in that that like I'd seen that story before on like whatever forensic files types of things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's really. He went into a deep dive of all these books. There's not a lot of documentaries. There's just some like videos on YouTube and shit. But there's not a lot of stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. This is an epic one. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

I love it. And just we Love you, Marcus Parks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, thank you. Marcus Parks, you're a genius.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're a mastermind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're. Yeah, he's a murder savant.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's just so good at researching. I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish. Okay, just give us all your old notes, Margus. It's like he's our brother and he already took the class.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, like, can I copy?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Please? Just give it to us and we'll read your thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, and then we'll do our own. I swear.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We'll do a boring version of your book.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We promise. We're not going to have Henry Zabrowski like talking in the background. So it's not going to be the same.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We'll be the quiet girl version.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, here we go. This is the Candyman. Dean Corll.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On the evening of August 7th, it's 1973, Wayne Henley, he's 17 year old, wiry kid, acne, thick brown hair. He's kind of like looks like a Brooklyn hipster. He invites his 19 year old friend Timothy Curley to a party at his friend Dean Corll's house in Pasadena, Texas. It's a suburb of Houston. And they bring along Henley's 15 year old friend, Rhonda Williams. She had been beaten by her drunk father that night. And so he was like. He took her out of the home for the time being. I was like, you can crash at my friend Dean Corll's house. Dean Corll's 33. And Henley tells them he's a chill dude. He lets people crash at his house at parties with them. 33 year old guy wants to party with teenagers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Red flag, seven red flags.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What? Started singing a lot on this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You got to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Sometimes that's the only way to get real crazy shit out. Okay. They get there around 3am they drink, they smoke, they snuff, sniff paint. They pass the fuck out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What? Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, it's the 70s, you sniff paint.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God, it's so. That is the bleakest. Like it's that thing of like when you scrape your pot pipes and you're just trying to get like you smoke old resin or whatever. Like sniffing paint is like 10 steps below that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, because I bet the 70s weed is fucking terrible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they're fucking high school kids. Have you seen, there's a. There's an amazing mug shot of a guy and it just has a ring of a paint can outline around his face.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's gold, isn't it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gold paint ring. I used to have this. I had a hundred tumblers. And I had one called. What was it was called look at this fucking convict. And I would post a photo of a mugshot and just write what happened. I should do that again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's funny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whatever. And I posted that one once. Okay. Okay. So they pass out. And Henley wakes up to find his mouth taped shut. His ankles are bound. And Dean Corll is snapping handcuffs onto his wrists.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Curly and Rhonda are also bound. Gag beside him. And Curly had been stripped naked. So when Henley woke up, Coral removes the gag and he says, I'll help you kill them if you just let me go. And he says, okay. And then. Da, da, da, da, da. So they untie Henley. They go to. And Coral's going to sexually assaults Curly. And he says to Henley, go assault Rhonda. And ties them up. So Coral starts to assault Curly head. And then Henley grabs Coral's pistol off the mantle, off the thing and shouts, you've gone too far, Dean. I can't go on any longer. I can't have you kill all my friends. And shoots Dean and Corll in the forehead. Which didn't penetrate his fucking head.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What, this again?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Why does this keep happening?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's the second story we've heard where a bullet ricochets off of someone's skull.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Makes me feel a little better.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, it's insanity.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It also makes me think, is it the killers? Like, is this a trait of certain types of people?

[Karen Kilgariff]

When people say, you got a real thick skull? Yeah. Maybe it's a thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Science people, Guys, figure it out. Science people cure cancer, then figure it out.

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't prioritize this, please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he shoots Dean five more times in the hallway. He finally collapses dead. There's a fucking photo of that, but you can't see his face. And then this murder of Dean Corll ends. The worst serial killer case in Houston history. Wayne Henley calls the police on himself. They arrive and Henley explained what had happened that night. And the police thought of him as a hero initially. Cause he saved his friends. And then the story took a turn as Henley began to tell detectives the crazy story of the past three fucking years. So ever since they met in 1971, under the command of Dean Corll, he had. Henley had helped procure teenage boys, some of whom had been his own friends, for Dean Corll to rape and murder. Detectives were like, fuck you. That's not true. They were totally skeptical. But they went through the crime scene with the house of Dean Corll. And they. Things that were like, oh, shit, maybe he's not lying. They found plastic sheeting covering the floors, a plywood board with handcuffs on each corner, which you can see online as well. Dildos and other torture devices. And then also his Ford Econola line had a wooden crate with air holes drilled in the sides, pegboard walls, and in the rear of the van were rigged with several rings and hooks. This part of the fucking story in last podcast on the left, the shit that. That Henry Zabrowski saying is some of the funniest shit I've ever heard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's, like, epic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's the master.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, there's a lot. You know, there's a lot of triggering shit in there, but that part's great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And inside the crate were several strands of human hair. They're still skeptical, though. And so Henley's like, let me show you something. He leads detectives to a southwest Houston boat shed rented by Coral, gives the names of three boys they could find buried in there that had been reported. And the cops were like, well, those boys had been reported missing for three years. And so they start to dig.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is the part in last podcast on the left where it's so upsetting and fucked up. I think even Henry was upset at

[Karen Kilgariff]

this part because it's so disturbing. Well, there's this document. The only good documentary was. Was on YouTube. It's called 1973 Houston Mass Murders. But be careful, because they show them digging bodies out. Yeah. And the other part that's so insane is they get inmates from the local jail to help them dig it out. And you're like, what if you had gotten a dui and they were like, come dig out. You're gonna be fucking scarred for life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. No, and everything about that part where it's like, they just got some people who are not qualified, basically, as a punishment to uncover, like, killing. A killing boat shed. Like the most teenage boys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Okay. So. So they. They begin to dig and find a body. Within minutes, they find the first body. Okay, so let's go to Dean Corll. There's a ton of shit about his childhood. I don't think any of it's relevant. It's like the typical kind of shitty childhood. Mom and dad divorced, blah, blah, blah. But it's not. I don't think it's that important to the story that I'm telling, so I'm not gonna fucking talk about it. He ends up in the Heights neighborhood of Houston. And that's where A lot of this takes place. The Heights neighborhood is kind of this poor underprivileged neighborhood. And back then, children ran amok. You do whatever the fuck you want. So the reason he got his name, the Candy man, is he worked in his family's candy company. And then in 1965, the Candy Company moved across the street from an elementary school and he was known to give free candy to local children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, it's. Why not dress up like a clown? You've got everything else horrifying going on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I mean, yeah, it's like 1973. They're like, go hang out with that nice man who gives you candy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, no, it's not then, but it should be, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not then, but like now that we know what we know, it's just like people. It's like people who are like, oh, I'm not trying to catch any fish. I'm just making this huge fishing lure that. You know what I mean? It's just like what would make children come around all the time?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's that movie that has. What's his name? Matt Dillon. In the Child, the kids take over the town.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, on the edge. Over the edge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Over the edge, you mean where they're

[Georgia Hardstark]

just partying in the suburbs like, and none of the parents are around?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah. Watch that movie. And that's what to me it seems like this time was like, it's a good movie but also you just were out till all tell, whenever you wanted to be. You had total freedom. Yeah. To hang out with. Fucking perverted.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was 30 year old men.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. It was the thing of if they're an adult, they're in charge. If they're an adult, they're fine. Like that's all it takes to qualify as you have a job and a car and you don't have like long

[Karen Kilgariff]

hippie legs and you're a good guy or a good. Yeah, yeah. So he was known to give free candy out in particular teenage boys. And they let.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He made a whole rec room for them to hang out with, like a pool table and shit. He's big and broad shoulders, thick black hair and sideburns. He was known, in the words of one of the reporters, a pleasant, smiling

[Georgia Hardstark]

candyman of the heights.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Red flag.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Aren't they all?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aren't they all? Yeah. I don't know. Red flag. Yeah, there's a couple pictures of him. There's not a lot. And he just looks like a normal dude. A normal like nice looking guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

Creepy.

Yeah. He's the creepiest in that he clean cut. Yes. He did it exactly right to not get caught.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He did it so right. Okay, so in 1967 he befriended 12 year old David Brooks. He was in 6th grade. His family life was kind of falling apart. And so Brooks was taken under Dean's wing as like a mentor almost. Brooks said about him he was the first adult male who didn't make fun of him and that he was like a father figure, which is insane. So as a teen, when Brooks became a teen, Coral paid him to allow him to perform fellatio on him. And he began living with Dean a lot since he was from this broken home. And I'm sure his family was like, great, he's got an adult role model. Yeah. But according to those who knew Brooks, the teenager wasn't gay. He had a girlfriend who lived in the Heights. But this older man who had known him since he was 12 was like, help me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he basically. Well, that's what pedophiles do is they groom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They pick them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They only pick children who aren't being protected. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This kid, they say that he was an introspective young kid, so he probably didn't have a ton of friends. His parents were divorced and moved away. They moved away. So. And all of these fucking documentaries and all of these stories they call Dean Corll homosexual. And I can't fucking. I don't think that's right. I think he's a pedophile and that's not the same thing as being homosexual.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He even had a girlfriend.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dean Corlden. Yeah, yeah. No, he's a pedophile.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's a pedophile. Like that's not homosexual. Right. So that's also.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think it could be too. You're reading things from Texas in like the 80s maybe where there's not, you know, people hadn't caught up all the way to like what, what are we really talking about? Because most pedophiles are straight men.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's like governmental.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I still see it like copied in articles, you know, the homosexual, like just he's a pedophile who liked young boys. So it's not, I don't know, it's just something that irks me. Like I feel like if I had said that we'd get an email from someone and be like, that's not, you know, and rightfully so correcting it. And I totally agree with that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Dean Corll's first known murder victim is 18 year old Jeffrey Conan on September 25, 1970, he'd been hitchhiking from the University of Texas and was dropped off near Dean's apartment. And they think that Dean offered him a ride and he gagged him with a cloth and strangled him. After the murder of Jeffrey Conan, David Brooks. So his fucking kid, who was 15, walks in on Corll in the act of assaulting two teenage boys who Corll had strapped to a plywood torture board. And Corll promised Brooks a car in return for his silence. He told Brooks, 15 years old, that he is part of a gay pornography ring. He had been paid to send the boys to Californ, pose for photos. That's what his story was. It's so you don't have to worry about it somehow. But then later, Corll confessed that he had killed the boys. And he offered David $200 for any boy he could lure to Corll's apartment. And at this point, it seems like Brooks. People say he didn't have a choice. You know, he was in now part of it because he had not told about the two boys he had seen him molesting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And also, this is a life change that's been introduced by a person he trusted. So he hasn't had any other adults in his life that have been reliable, it sounds like. Or good people. And now the one person that he sees as a good person is introducing all these kind of variables where he's supposed to believe this is okay behavior,

[Karen Kilgariff]

or it's like, yeah, cut this person who's supported you for the past few years out of your life. Or do what's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Play along.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Play along. You're not gonna kill anyone. Just bring him to him. I mean, it's insane. It's an insane fucking story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it's. It's kind of like brainwashing. I mean, really, that's. You know, he's getting people. He's not convincing anybody. That's like coming from a great background with a lot of solid ground under their feet, which is in no way to say, if you're from a broken home, obviously, that you would be. But it's more of a. He knew who to pick to groom, to basically brainwash into living this way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, aside from Dean Corll, who's clearly a psychopath, it's insane that he was able to get this kid, David Brooks, to fucking do this for him. And I can't wrap my head around it. I can't imagine a scenario that I'd ever be okay with that. Which means it's a scenario that I can't even imagine. It's like something really insane happened that this kid was okay with it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Or maybe he wasn't okay with it, but what else? He was already in. Yeah, like he didn't. He had nowhere else to go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Definitely. Okay. On December 13, 1970. So David Brooks lures two 14 year old kids named James Glass and Danny Yates. He lures them from a religious rally to Coral's apartment. You know the thing of, like, hey, let's go party. You know, I got some weed and we can hang out at this dude's house. Yeah, like, cool older guy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone's a pool table.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you know who it is? It's fucking. It's the movie. Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's wrong with it? It's Matthew McConaughey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's Matthew motherfucking McConaughey from Days and Confused. Dazed and Confused.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's exactly who he is. And the victim is the kid from IT with the long hair. Yeah, the little kid with the new freshman. That's exactly what it is. And everyone's like, Matthew McConaughey's character's so cool. No, he's a fucking perverted pedophile.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's an old man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's a gross old man. He wants to hang out with high school kids. But.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But there is that thing of inclusion if you are living your whole life. So say it is. Let's use the Dazed and Confused example. And that kid isn't just getting his ass kicked at school, but there was very violent scenes of him getting his ass kicked at home and home being an unsafe place for him to be. And then you've got Matthew Kahani rolling up and being like, hey, man, it's chill. Come and play pool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, get in my cool car. I'll drive you around town. We'll go to this bar, play pool. Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You finally found somewhere to land. You don't want to give that up right away. But then he. It's almost like he slowly ebbed away, or I don't. There's a better way to say it, but, like, it's almost like, I bought him. I bought you a car. You know, like he's just slowly grinding down this kid's inner identity.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's fucked up. I mean, yeah, definitely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So let's. So the police should arrest Matthew McConaughey

[Karen Kilgariff]

is what I'm saying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It gets so much worse. You know our tagline always. So both boys, James Glass and Danny Yates, are tied to opposite sides of Corll's torture board and subsequently raped and strangled. Six weeks after that double murder on January 30, 1971, Brooks and Corll find two teenage boys, brothers named Donald and Jerry Waldrop Waldorp. Waldrop Waldrop. Walking. The boys were taken into the van driven in Coral's apartment. And it's like they don't grab them off the street, they want a party, which is the scariest part to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The apartment where they rape, torture and strangle the brothers. And at this point, Brooks drops out of school. Just it's. He's 100% with coral. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I bet you he's sorry, but I bet you he's if there's some, you know, like the moral compass inside, he's probably having to self medicate so much just to make all of this okay.

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then having a normal life like school and teachers, your brain can't wrap around that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's no going back to sitting in a classroom after you're doing shit like this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally. So between March and May of 1971, Corll abducted and killed three more victims, all of who lived in the Heights area as well. His MO in most cases was gruesome torture and rape. And he'd sometimes shoot them, sometimes strangle them. A couple occasions he'd leave his victims to die by bleeding out from the gunshot wound. And each of these abductions, Brooks is known to have been a participant. Again, they go a lot further into it if you're okay with gruesome shit. In last podcast in the Left, the other two victims were 13 year old David Hildegeist and 16 year old Greg Winkle. And they were abducted and killed together on the afternoon of May 29, 1971. And so in the case with other parents as well, both sets of parents are frantic to find their kids. They know something is wrong. These are young boys who don't run away. And one of the people who voluntarily offered to distribute posters of the boys was a friend of theirs, 15 year old neighbor, Wayne Henley, lifelong friend of Hildegeist. So at this point in 71, Brooks introduces Corll to Wayne Henley. Remember him from the beginning of the story? He shot and killed Dean Corll.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's possible that Wayne was supposed to be a potential victim, but for some reason they became friends and Wayne Henley became another accomplice. Wayne Henley said about him, we hit it off. He was a smart, clean cut, nicely dressed man. He listened to me, he explained things to me. I'll be honest with you, it was important that Dean liked me. He was kind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which then explains. Is it David Brooks?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Explains his participation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Same thing. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The value of just being there and like not being.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not being parental. Being like the cool uncle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Or just trying to like pay attention a little bit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like parents are getting that now nowadays, like in spades.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But in the 70s, it was just like your parents were the people that came home and you ate meals with

[Karen Kilgariff]

and they yelled at you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it was like. It was also in a. In a lower class neighborhood. So it was probably both parents were working, so they didn't have time to fucking deal with your shit. Yes. You know, and you were. Maybe you were a bad kid, let's say. And they didn't. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. You were just one more headache.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, this. That's how it is for some people. And was for a lot of people back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, for sure. They hit it off. And when he found out Henley didn't. About the murders. Henley didn't go to the police. Even when Corll told him that he had been the person who abducted and killed David Hildegeist, his childhood friend. Corll pushed Henley to bring him another boy. And he picked Frank Aguirre, a good friend of his. Which is so fucking insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I think that speaks to the level of psychopathic that Dean Corll was. Because they're like the greatest like traveling salesman that you've ever met. That's what they're like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That to me is so dark. I mean, it's fucking crazy awful, obviously, but like to bring a friend to know that he's gonna get. At least he's gonna get raped.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I mean, I think that the pitch is on Dean Corll's side is like, I will like you even more. You will get even more for me, even better. Like, show me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You mean I almost like, show me how much maybe involved in this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, whatever psychopaths do to get you to hypnotize you into doing what they want, this guy was good at it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Very good. I mean, it's insane. Yeah. Okay. So they bring him. Okay. They play the game, which we fucking have heard again. Again and again. The handcuff game.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Handcuff game.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good old handcuff game. The one where Henley and Brad put on the pair of handcuffs behind their back. They have a secret key. And they're like. See, they're trick handcuffs. You try it. And then he tries it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he's stuck Ugh, you can just picture it. It breaks my fucking heart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you are ever in a scenario, age anything up till at any point in your life, let's say there's no age limit on this game and someone says, let's play the handcuff game. Immediately walk out of the room and call the police.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kick them in the. Yeah, why else?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because at the very least they're a mach. So you should call the police anyway. But there's almost nothing good comes out of the handcuffs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A. Don't be alone in a room with a man, ever. Unless it's your boyfriend or something. Don't be alone in a room with a man, especially a strange man. Especially if there's handcuffs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Three times underlined, if there's handcuffs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you think I'd ever let anyone but, like, Vince and Steven in this house if I were alone? No. I would. If someone knocked, I would tiptoe to the door, I would peek out the thing and I would be like, hell fucking no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now, what if you had the handcuffs? What if the power was in your hands?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know. I would just, like handcuff him and paint his nails. Because I'm not a psychopath.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The idea that anyone wants to handcuff anybody is something bad is about to happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's not a game.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's look for our context clues of bad things happening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Even if they want to do the fucking Chinese finger trap, still, that's two

[Georgia Hardstark]

fingers you don't have.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nope that shit and get the fuck out of there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. I hate this birthday party, Mom. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're leaving your mom alone with him now? What a dick. Kids are such assholes. Okay, so they play the handcuff game. When Aguirre puts on the handcuffs, Coral drags the teenager into the bedroom and according to Henley, quote, had his fun with him. Can I just tell you, I've been studying this one. I was like, I'm gonna do it this week. And I had two days to do it. And I'm like, no, you're not. This is too much. And I. So I've been doing it for three weeks and having fucking nightmares, I bet. Like, I'm really glad to get this fucking over with this one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the Toy Box Killer are like, I don't. I stopped listening to the Toy Box Killer on last podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't do that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They have recordings of it. The fact that there's recordings of him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just don't. You guys, if you're sensitive, don't read the toy Box killer about it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it's the worst. It's pure demonic destruction. There's nothing interesting about it. It's a person who can destroy people and does very slowly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's horrible. Yeah. So in late 72 they brought 17 year old Billy Balk, who used to sell Dean Corll's candy door to door, and his 16 year old friend Johnny Delone. Fourteen months later, Coral, Henley and Brooks grab Billy's younger brother Michael, who was on his way to get a haircut. How sad is that? This parent, the parents lost first their kid, first kid goes missing, then they grab his little brother and he goes missing. And the parents know something is wrong. In a lot of the documentaries they're like they thought they were runaways or like they were poor and they didn't care at that point if they were runaways. Which from what I've read and what I can tell, it's not true. His parents knew something was wrong. Yeah. So they captured and killed a 20 year old father who had been living in the Heights and was hitchhiking. They snatched Homer Garcia, a boy from southwest Houston who was going to driver's ed with fucking Henley, and then two boys who had just moved into an apartment across the street from Henley's house. Then it was 15 year old Billy Lawrence and he was forced to write a letter to his father saying, daddy, I hope you know, at the end he's saying, I'm gonna go away for a little while, I got this job, I'll be back in town. And then he read at the end, daddy, I hope you know I love you. Your son Billy, he was kept alive for three days on the plywood because Henry later said Coral Quote really liked him. Next was Rusty Branch. And in the total, so in total 28 boys from the Houston area disappeared in a three fucking year span. 2820 boys aging from 9 to 21. 11 went missing from the same junior high school. 11 teenage boys, not teenage, 13, 14 year old boys, 12 year old boys from the same junior high school. Red fucking flag.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Principal whatever your name is, where is anybody doing anything?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Principal Dave, fucking call the police. And at least 20 of them had been residents of either the Heights or the adjoining neighborhoods. Many parents of the boys had desperate searches for their kids. Some took out. So there were people who took out a loan to hire a private detective offered. And remember, these are people who don't have money, offered a large reward, called the police constantly. They employed multiple psychics. In the end, police were even aware that anything was amiss. Of course they did the fucking. They're all runaways.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

28 boys in three years, and they're all running ways. So it was the norm, though, in the 70s, especially kids who came from the Heights who. Police just wouldn't even look into it. Okay, about the police. I don't want to blame them and dismiss them as being shitty at their jobs, because there was a lot going on at the time, which made it a perfect hunting ground for Coral. Houston's crazy, domineering police chief, Herman Short. He believed in an old school way of law enforcement. Houston was exploding in population. There was a fucking ton of money. So there were really rich people there, and that's who they really cared or really cared about. They had an understaffed police force in 1970. They had half the minimum to police the population.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whoa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this is in places where there's a lot of crime going on and they underpaid the cops. Federal funds were available, but Short refused any federal assistance, calling it a handout. Oh, no, no, no, no. It's like the wild fucking West.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get out of here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The workload is so crazy that many cops just gave up. And they played a game of who could work the earliest. So parents who had lost their sons on one side of the Heights had no idea that there are parents on the other side of the Heights who had also lost sons. So there was. It was just a disorganized, insane, hopeless situation. The thought of being a parent and not being. I've always thought about that with the runaway thing, where it's like, you know your kid better than anyone. There's something wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also. Just that the idea that there. Essentially, what it sounds like is there was almost no police force for them.

Right.

Which is horrifying. Talk about. This is an amazing. Fincher. Here's your next movie, dude. Because it's the Candyman, which in and of itself is a huge, horrifying story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like the fact the name is, like, spot on. It's one of those, like, classics. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But then on top of that, he's so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's clearly so smart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dean Corll is so smart. And the opportunity. He got lucky. He got lucky that it was that

[Georgia Hardstark]

period of time and that he was this master manipulator. But that part. I remember when Marcus was talking about that part in their thing and the details they gave about all those things, it was mind blowing. Where it's like, there's always. You know, it's like the same thing happened in the late 70s in LA. In LA. In the late 70s, there was four serial killers working at one time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus Christ.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it was the same thing of the cops didn't talk. The they were all competing with each other. So they wouldn't do cross county communication. They wouldn't do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, they didn't have a lot of ways of even if they wanted to. There was no Internet. You couldn't call and be like, do you have someone who was strangled? And it's like there's tons of other things going on at the same time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's all kinds of stuff and it's all. Yeah, everything's like, write a letter. Oh, do you want to find out if something happened in the Valley? Write a letter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. So the one thing that Chief Short did do in an attempt to make sure the crimes didn't happen after they found out about it was order his officers to raid the city's gay bars. Uh huh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Problem solved.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Problem solved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, Good job. Okay, let's go back to the beginning of the story. 1973, Wayne Henley leads skeptical police to the boat shed that Dean Corll rented. They start to dig with the help of fucking inmates. And they found the first body in a matter of minutes. Then two more, then another six underneath them stacked up. Henley also led authorities to a location near a wooded area near Sam Rayburn Reservoir where four bodies were uncovered. The day after Henley's arrest, David Brooks turns himself in to the police. Henley hadn't even mentioned him. He didn't rat him out. I know. And together they led police to a location on High Island. There's like scenes of them digging at a beach. It's crazy with like people camping and there's fucking bodies. So they found six more bodies at High island and within a week the remains of 27 young males had been found.

Wow.

A week after the first bodies are found, despite a few thousand missing persons reports having come in from 1968 to 1970s, the authorities, they call out the excavations despite the fact they that, that even Henley and Brooks told them they knew where other bodies could be located.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They just decided that's enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I think they didn't want the death toll to get higher because it looks so bad. Yeah. Oh, I think that they were like already under so much scrutiny by the media that they stopped.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can I just say this to people? If you're ever in this situation where you're in charge of something that's going to total shit, the only thing you can do at a certain point is let the truth come out because you pretending like that idea is so, to me, such a male in his 60s. I'm in charge of this watch. Listen to me, everybody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's narcissistic in a way that I can't put myself in those parents shoes that they might want to find. I don't understand what anyone else is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's prioritizing what looks like him as opposed to what, what it feels like for the victim.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He probably can't even begin to comprehend other people's emotions.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well. And also. But also he's in a situation that he's not trained for. He's never even thought could happen. But the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he screwed up from the get go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And, and, but the. When you're at that. At that point, let it all come out because you have to think of like, long term, how it looks and also what your actual job is. Your job is to protect people. You can't now pretend like you protected anybody. Cause that. That off the boards entirely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why am I talking about this? I'm not giving advice to this sheriff from 40 years ago, but it bums me out because I know you watch people make these decisions where it's like, okay, well, now I'm just gonna scramble to cover my own ass.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It drives me crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Where it's like, it's. That part's over.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's over. The thing like my therapist will always say when I get these calamity things in my head of everything's gonna fall apart. She's like, okay, what do you. What can they not take away from you? And it's like, they can't take away Vince. They can't waken my cats. They can't take my family healthy still. It's like, it's gonna suck and you're gonna look like a piece of shit, but it's gonna be okay in the long run.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't add to it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't fucking add to it by lying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't lie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't lie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because here's the other thing too. It's that thing where you, you can. You can lie, obviously. And in the moment you're gonna think

[Karen Kilgariff]

that that's a good fit and you're out of it. Yeah, you got out of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're tripling down on how bad you look when you tell a lie. Because here's the thing, and I just. This is a recommendation, lying in general, as a great, great, huge liar. All my life, you always get caught and it's humiliating and you look ten times worse. Worse than you actually are because you think there's a side. You think there's a shortcut. You think you can get out of it by just saying something. Please just know there's always someone around who knows the truth and knows you're

lying and you're doubling down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're absolutely right. Because then you can't back come back and, and be like, okay, this is what actually happened. Right. Like, but you also lied about about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you're even a bigger piece of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're just making everything worse. Like the best thing. And this was like training from. From high stress tv, daily TV production where it's just come clean immediately and start fixing it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's the only thing that was ever solution. You never got in trouble for fucking up as long as you were in the solution. But when you lie and you go like, oh, someone else told me, well, then you're delaying the fix. And delaying the fix is really the worst sin of all. Because lying is just. That's just for your ego. Yeah, but you have to fix it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The 70s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The 70s. Stop lying. This 80s need to go to prison. The 70s need to stop lying. The 90s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm not ready to talk about the 90s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll go there. We can't give you all our advice in one episode or you'll never listen again. Listen, we have a lot more. Look. Advice. Look and listen to our advice and take it. Any 70s. Right. Okay, so it's time travel. Okay, so Henley and Brooks get life sentences. They're still alive. Go, go back in this 1973 Houston mass murders video on YouTube. They are. The cameras are rolling while they're excavating bodies. And Henley is talking. Henley is telling reporters what happened. He couldn't stop talking. I bet it's pretty incredible. There's a part where he calls his mom, Mama, I killed Dean. There's a part of him on the

[Georgia Hardstark]

phone with his mom as like cameras are recording it. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus Christ.

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, also because I bet you those kids were in complete trauma mode. They were like in shock.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For years. Over.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean. Yeah, it's over. It's crazy. Okay. In 2012, a Polaroid of a young boy handcuffed and screamed. I've seen it. Horrifying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't look at those.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't. I mean, I have to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's my fucking psyche.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, but just don't do that damage to yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've been nightmaring. Yeah, of course you do. It turns up in some of Henley's possessions. And when presented with the photo, Henley Said he didn't recognize the boy. Which, if it's true, it means there's at least one other victim. A 29th that's yet to be identified.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's also guessed that there could have been past accomplices who became victims themselves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That would make sense.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just as Henley might have as well. And based on his skill and MO of the first killing, it's very doubtful that was actually his first. The kid who was hitchhiking. And I completely believe it, that there's no way. A reporter named Barbara Gibson and Dr. Sharon Derrick, a forensic anthropologist with the medical examiner's office in Houston, now, are working to identify the three victims that have yet to be named. These women are fucking aware. Awesome. And then to end it, I just want to quote. Willie Glass, the brother of Jimmy Glass who disappeared or who was killed, said, Dean Corll didn't just kill 27 boys, he killed 27 families. And that's my story of the Canyon. Dean Corll. And now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't ever want to think about it again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Until David Fincher makes the movie the Finch. Oh, God.

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was great. I mean. I mean, that's the best case scenario you can do of. There's some details in that digging part that will be with me forever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I definitely. I mean, there's some genital mutilation that I didn't talk about. There's some fucking torture or torture stuff that I just can't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And also, you know what it is. If you've seen one thing, if you've accidentally read or seen something that's about this. That's what it is. You know what it is, is you don't need more of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I understand the thing of, like, your curiosity gets the best of you, but I. I stopped doing that a little while ago only because it becomes all the same. And then you're just basically doing specifics of faces or hair colors or whatever. But it's the same horrible scenario.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I mean, I just. You know, I do the thing where I keep going back to that Polaroid they found, and I look deep into this kid's eyes to see if I can. What I can suss out of it. You know what I mean? I. And, like, he looks like he's in a box. It's a blurry photo, and you can see, like, there's a toolbox next to him. And I just try. I keep putting myself in his shoes, and I can't do that. Like, it's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, there's no point. But I mean, what. To what value? To what end?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So just being empathetic of the stories

[Georgia Hardstark]

that I'm telling you can be empathetic and know nothing about it. I'm empathetic. And all I did was listen to what you told me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, it's horrifying, but that's also, you know, everybody has different experiences with actually looking at the things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just don't get confused about what. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. What I need to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do what's good for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nightmares aren't good for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's not the point. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, the candyman oh, the candyman Everyone will suffer under the candyman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this case?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, so there are. In 2020, David Brooks died in prison of COVID 19. And then Elmer Henley has been denied parole several times over the years, most recently in November 2025. His next parole hearing will be in 2035. But a couple things to look out for. In 2025, journalist Lease Olson's book the Scientist and the Serial Killer, the Search for Houston's Lost Boys was published. That one centers around Dr. Sharon Derrick's effort to identify Corll's victims. And then also there is a documentary based on a book called the Serial Killer's Apprentice that I started reading. You can stream that on like HBO Max, I believe. And it's written by Katherine Ramsland and Tracey Ullman. And that is just. I mean, yeah, it's about Elmer Wayne Henley, you know, being groomed to become this killer. And did. What did it mean? And what, you know, what level of

[Karen Kilgariff]

responsibility does he have? You know, which obviously some.

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And all the other questions that they. My dad brought this case up to me the last time I was at home. Yes. And I was like, he. And he was bringing up all the things that you say where it's like, how could that go on so long? How could no one know? How could he get that kind of like brainwashy control over a person? Is it cuz he was like on drugs? It was that weird time of the 70s. There's just so much to dig into about this case that's so extreme and so horrific.

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Serial Killer's Apprentice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I recommend it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It just continues to boggle our minds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, well, let's get into Karen's story about. Oh, a classic LA story, the Silent Movie Theater Murders. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In a world where everything lives online, it's hard to actually stand out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Create a unique website that reflects who you are and what you do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With Squaresp, Squarespace offers powerful design tools that make it easy to build a beautiful professional website that fits your brand or business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Getting started is easy. You'll choose from a library of award winning website templates and with their intuitive drag and drop editing and beautiful styling options, you'll be up and running in no time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Squarespace lets you showcase consultations, events and experiences and then get paid with professional invoices and online payments.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can offer courses, videos, blogs or memberships directly on your site, all behind a paywall you control.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Check out squarespace.com for a free trial

[Georgia Hardstark]

and when you're ready to launch, use Offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye Allergy season always has a way of sneaking up on you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One minute you're listening to your favorite podcast, the next it's non stop sneezing and a runny nose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's why it's essential to keep Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues on hand. They're silky soft for up to 100% irritation, free skin and allergist approved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So when allergies hit and they will be ready with Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissue

[Karen Kilgariff]

for whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye this episode is brought to you by Disney Hulu, where the drama you want is waiting to pull you in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The kind that makes you gasp, laugh, or maybe even ugly cry. The kind that takes you somewhere you didn't expect to go, introduces you to

[Georgia Hardstark]

characters you'll never forget, and keeps you coming back episode after episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mysterious post apocalyptic thrillers like the acclaimed

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hulu original Paradise hit crime dramas like the Rookie or Griffing medical dramas like the iconic Grey's Anatomy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or maybe you want your drama with of comic Relief with shows like High Potential or an action adventure saga like Daredevil Born Again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're stories you don't just watch, you live.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every twist, every revelation, every whoa that just happened moment.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whatever kind of drama you're in the mood for, it's all here waiting for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Find the drama you want on Disney plus and Hulu with a bundle. Subscription terms apply.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. We can't time travel back to stop ourselves from every bad purchase, but we can start making better financial decisions for

[Karen Kilgariff]

our future future Right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plan ahead with Acorns.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Acorns is a smart way to give

[Georgia Hardstark]

your money a chance to grow. You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing, even if it's your spare change. Whether you're just starting out or thinking about settling down. Acorns supports your big and small goals across every life stage. Sign up now and Acorns will boost your new account with a five dollar bonus. Investment join the over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $27 billion with acquisition Acorns. Head to acorns.com mfm or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier 2 compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers accounts, age and investment settings. Does not include Acorns fees. Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio investment. Results will vary. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor view important [e-mail] goodbye if you get an alert from your security camera, ignoring it could lead to disaster.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Luckily, there's simply safe a home security system backed by 24. 7 monitoring that can act when you can't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Traditional security systems alert you after someone has already broken in. That's too late. SimpliSafe's Active Guard Outdoor Protection is designed to help stop a break in before it happens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

SimpliSafe protects over 4 million people and brings 20 years of home security experience.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's no wonder that they were named Best Home security system of 2026 by US News and World Report.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love the way SimpliSafe makes everything so easy. Like the idea that there are cameras set up so easy that you can just check those cameras on your phone that the second you have a thought that maybe something is going on in

[Georgia Hardstark]

some part of the house, you just

[Karen Kilgariff]

like pick up your phone, it's all right there. And then if that's not something you can do, there are people that work there that do it for you. So you're always covered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the best of everything. And right now our listeners can get 50% off new SimpliSafe system at simplisafe.com fave that's simplisafe.com fav there's no safe like SimpliSafe.

Goodbye. Well, mine is this is actually it's not firsthand, I guess it's kind of secondhand. But I've wanted to do this one for a while. I just didn't know any details and I when I would look it up it was always very vague. There wasn't an abstract story. And then one of the shows that is on my DVR that comes up every couple times, every once a month, maybe It's a show called Demons in the City of Angels. Have you heard of it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so that's where. When I did the publicist that got murdered, it was from that. That's when I first saw that story. And I was like, oh, I remember that. Well, this one is the story I wanted to do. And it came up one day where I was like, oh, my God. And it's the murder at the silent movie theater. Do you remember this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so Demons in the City of Angels, narrated by an incredibly intense man named AJ Benza, who I believe himself was a crime reporter. Or I don't. I'm not sure what. I don't know that much about him, but I think he has a true crime background. But now he's hosted lots of shows. I've seen him on other things, but now he's narrates this show and it's all crimes that happen in la.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it. I need to watch it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's pretty good. But this one, I was just so happy because it's the detailed versions of this story. So it's 1997, Los Angeles. I moved here in 1994. When did you move here?

[Karen Kilgariff]

98.

[Georgia Hardstark]

98. So this was kind of like one of the first big bad. I mean, I moved here the year of the earthquake and. And OJ and riots. Riots. All that stuff happened right around the same time as when I moved here. So this was kind of the next big one. And there's a silent movie theater on Fairfax at Melrose, just below Melrose, I think it's like two blocks below right now. It's in flux because it was bought by a company called Cinefamily that was. Was doing these amazing. Their calendar was incredible. I am a member. I know tons of people who are members and they would show amazing. Either new movies or, you know, directors. Whole weekends of directors films, all this stuff. It was this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was really a fun, creative place. And then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then they. Very recently, I think it was like three months ago, I got an email saying all films, all like of all of our plans are suspended right now because these huge sexual harassment, like, accusations came down the pike. And they're like, until we know what's going on, we're not doing anything anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. With the heads of Sina family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. The people who are running it. So I don't know details about any of those things. And that's not what my story is about. But it's a bummer because. Because this movie theater has had issues since. I mean, Like, I'm very interested, interested to know what was there before, because it's never not had bad vibes. It's like something's going on because there's never not something, some issue. So we'll go to. This is the night, January 17, 1997. And this is the anniversary of the sixth year of the reopening of the silent movie theater. So I think before this, the movie theater had been built by Dorothy and John Hampton. They bought an empty lot there on Fairfax, and they built the theater from the ground up. And so this guy, Larry Austin, got a job at the theater when he's 19 years old. He was a local kid. He grew up. Grew up in the Fairfax district, but he was gay. And in his teens, his father rejected him. His father basically kicked him out of the house. And the Hamptons basically took him in like family. So he started working at the silent movie theater in its original form when he was 19 years old.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How cool would that be?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, and he was super into as many people. When you live in Los Angeles, there are a lot of people. It's all about kind of who you know and how connected you are to the movie business or tv. But movies are a little fancier. And this. I think Larry always wanted to be in show business in some way. And working at the silent movie theater, he was, you know, he did everything for this family. From when he was 19. He was with the Hamptons for 37 years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he really was like a son of theirs until the theater closed in 1979. And it was basically, it was just kind of a place where people who cared about film and, you know, movie buffs and stuff would go to watch silent films, but it wasn't like doing, you know, a great business or whatever. So they ended up having to close. And then In May of 1990, John Hampton died. And after he died, Dorothy Hampton was really depressed. And Larry Austin convinced her to reopen the theater. He thought that would be the. The perfect thing for her. And she agreed. And so they decide that they're going to go in. The theater was basically kind of left just standing for 10 years with nothing going on in it. So they have to hire a contractor to come in and basically help them rebuild the theater so they can reopen it. And the contractor is a guy named James Van Sickle. And as they work on the theater and slowly rebuild it, Larry Austin, who at this point is. I think he is in his early 60s, and Van Sickle, who is in his late 30s, start having an affair

[Karen Kilgariff]

the contractor and the guy who was the family. Basically, like a son. Yes, got it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The guy whose idea was to reopen with the widow Dorothy Hampton. And. And so they basically put all of their work. And Larry lives in the apartment above the movie theater.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cool. I didn't even know there was one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How awesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't you love that idea?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, when you go into the theater, the popcorn stand is on the right. There's a set of stairs that's over there too. And I think that goes up to the projection booth. But I like to picture that. That also. Then you walk past the projection booth, then there's like bed, a little gingham, a cot and a kitchen table.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I don't really know because I

[Karen Kilgariff]

haven't been up there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But that's what it. That's how it is in my mind. Okay. So basically, on the night of the reopening. I'm sorry, so six years after the reopening. So they reopen it, everything goes great, Dorothy is thrilled, and basically they're back in business.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And. But eventually Dorothy has to get moved into an old folks home. Anyway, so on the sixth anniversary of the reopening of the silent movie theater, Larry decides he's going to play the first movie that played there when it originally opened, which is the movie Sunrise. But there's also a bunch of short films that he's playing. And it's kind of just like a big celebration of the silent movie theater. So this is January 17th, 1997, if I haven't already said that 17 times. Okay. So that night there's like 60 people in the theater, which is packed for that. If you picture 60 people, that's like fucking wall to wall half an hour into the program. And also Larry, when they reopened it, and I don't know if he did this before, but he definitely did it on the reopening in 1990. He used to go up in, introduce every night, every movie, everything in a tuxedo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I love him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So this was like his really, his life. And people, really famous people used to go to that theater to watch movies. It was kind of like, you know, it was like a very hipster thing of like, I'm into movies. I'm into fucking silent movies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I know the owner, he's so cool. Whatever, Whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. So Larry goes up and he's like, tonight, it's a Buster Katon feature. Whatever. And he like, basically, basically, if you don't know that much about silent film you are still introduced and kind of brought into that world in this really lovely way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he was like, he made them special.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're not just going to see a movie, it's a production.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. And it's like old Hollywood. And that was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The tuxedo is like the crowning glory.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that a thing?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's like a nightly. He had a job where he got to wear a tuxedo every night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was into it. And just so you know, after they redid the whole theater, Larry Austin kept James Van Sickle on as his projectionist. So Van Sickle was interested in films, I think, or at least knew enough to become the projectionist. But basically this relationship grew up out of them rebuilding the silent movie theater. And Larry Austin's friends said he was over the moon. I mean, he fucking gets this hot young beefy contractor and they're working on his. The love of his life, this project that he's worked on all of his life. They said he was so thrilled. There's a friend of his is in the Demons in the City of Angels where he just says like he would look at him like when he talked like he hung the moon, I mean, he was just completely in love. And they lived in the little apartment together over the movie theater.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's the end, right? And they lived.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's all I have to tell you about today.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They two children from an un.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, really quick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Something terrible happens. So on the night of the sixth year. No, I don't want to know. Let's just say it was your anniversary. It's like me with the storytelling. Don't tell me, don't tell me about. Don't tell me about the crime scene photos. On the night of the six year anniversary, Larry goes up, tonight we're gonna watch sunrise and then all these other short films and da, da, da. He goes back out into the lobby into the ticket booth. And about half an hour into the program, a guy gets up and comes out and says he wants to buy tickets for a future showing. There's a girl named Mary Giles, I think her last name is pronounced Giles or giles, and she's 19 years old, she works at the concession stand. And she's like, oh, you need to talk to Larry about buying future tickets. And. And when the door opens to that ticket booth that's in the front of the theater, the guy pulls a gun, a.357 Magnum out of his pocket and tells Larry he wants all the money from the ticket booth. So Larry gives him all the money. He pulls everything out of the cash register and gives it to him and comes out of the booth and with Mary, he hands the money over and the guy with the gun takes the money, drops it and shoots Larry and. In the face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the face.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In the fucking face. He shot him once in the face. Larry goes down and then he turns and shoots him like, I think three more times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just like, to make sure he's dead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Then he turns to Mary Giles and shoots her twice in the chest.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's just a fucking girl working at the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's just a girl working at the movie theater.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The way I pictured it in my head all the time is like, so much different than it actually happened that

[Georgia Hardstark]

it happened in the theater.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, because also, and I didn't know this until the first time I went to the silent movie theater. It's fucking tiny. Yes, there is. No, it's not like, you know, your fucking IMAX theater. It's a tiny little space. A tiny office in the front. Yeah. So this is all close quarters.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, it's very close quarters. Like, it feels almost New York style close quarters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a mini, like, art house movie theater. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And when you're there, like, that's where I went to go see Zodiac when they redid it. And it was perfect because you could see it perfectly. There was no bad seats and the place was packed, so it was like everyone was excited to see that movie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like a small town movie theater. It reminds me of, which is like one screen. That's it. Anyways, he shoots Mary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He fucking shoots Mary also.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, honey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then runs out through the movie theater. So he has a front door. He can run out and be right on Fairfax.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why didn't he do that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He ran through the movie theater, shot into the air while these people are watching the movie, and then runs out the back door where the passengers audio is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So everyone in the theater witnesses this guy with his hood pulled up shooting into the air. Of course, everyone freaks out.

Yes.

So, you know, the police come, Mary gets taken to the hospital, and she survives.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Two to the chest. And Mary survives.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Two to the chest.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Two to the chest. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Girl. Okay, so every interview in the. In the episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone was so freaked out by this. I completely remember it happening. I remember everybody talking about it. And at the time, we had just started doing standup comedy shows at Largo, which is five blocks down the street.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so scary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. So one of the first. So the guy that owns Largo, which is now at a different, much larger location, is a guy named Mark Flanagan. He's the owner, operator. And he's a. One of those. He's an Irishman from Belfast. He's full of shit. His eyes are dark brown. He's full of shit. And he is one of my favorite people on the planet. He's one of my closest friends. And he's the kind of person that starts to talk to you when you very first meet him. Like, you've already been talking for 20 minutes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's my favorite. It's the kind of person that's just like. Anyway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he. One of the first stories he ever told me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because after the shoot. Shooting, they had just opened Largo at that location, which is now. I think it's a bar called the Dime.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, something like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Something like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're probably right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's. And now it's a very sister area.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It doesn't look the same at all. They, like, gutted it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, really? They redid the whole thing, I think. Oh, I haven't been in there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I could make that up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. But they had just opened Largo, and they were just starting to get, like, the music acts every night and stuff. And James Van Sickle came down and told Flanagan what happened. Like, Larry got shot. He was murdered. We don't know what's happening. The police are investigating it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Carpenter was telling him this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The carpenter was slamming him. Exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. This. Planning and telling me, telling the story of the guy coming down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know why I made him a carpenter, but.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, that's what a contractor is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He can just do more than carpentry. Right. So he basically comes down and says, we want to have a memorial. Memorial fundraiser. Is there any. Anything you can do to help? And Fleming's like, well, you can have it here. So they have a memorial fundraiser for Larry Austin and for the silent movie theater at Largo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In March of 1997.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Were you there?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. This was before. Just say yes, but remember the lies they get written. Then the seven people from Largo. Like, I was there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You weren't there. You absolutely weren't there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he was like, well, of course these are our neighbors, and we want to be good people, and we just open this business. Like, we want to play ball. Whatever. It was Flamgin and John Bryan, the famed musician, who also was kind of, like, had. I don't think he was an owner, but he was like, you know, this was his home club and he. And he of course wanted to help in any way. So I think part of the benefit was John played and they got other musicians to play and they raised a bunch of money and gave it to the silent movie theater in, you know, Larry Austin's name.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it turns out the same night that they have this, which was March 12th of 1997, is the same night that the police begin to surveil James Von Sickle. Because he is the prime suspect in this murder. But he doesn't know it and nobody else knows it either. But as they were looking into after this crime and they start looking into who's involved in this, James Van Sickle is the one person named on Larry Austin's will of who the. Now what also nobody knew was the movie theater, the land and all of the films inside. The whole thing was worth over a million dollars.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I bet that land, man. If you own that land. Land. Oh yeah, in la.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In la, right on Fairfax.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They start looking into James Van Sickle's past and his like, basically his record and they find out he in 1988 was charged with attempted murder in a Compton case, but it was dismissed after the victim failed to appear in court. So that just, that just went away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goes away if the victim.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In 1989, he was sentenced to four years in Orange county for selling drugs, transporting and selling narcotics. He served half that time at Chino. And he also had check fraud charges that were pending. So I guess they were still working on that. He had several aliases. He had multiple California driver's licenses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. Fraudster.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And in 1996, so the year before, Larry Austin had filed a police report accusing Van Sickle of assault and battery. Oh, sorry. Assault and robbery.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he ended up dropping the charges. So clearly this relationship was not as a lovey dovey as everyone thought.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, guilty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And there was some serious shit going on. Detective John Miller, who worked on the case, said that they then came to understand that they actually had a very on again, off again relationship. And that was stormy. And that sometimes Van Sickle went and lived in Carson when he was not living with Larry. So it wasn't full time. Like everybody kind of thought, can we

[Karen Kilgariff]

stop having on again, off again relationships?

[Georgia Hardstark]

People just off again em, just off it, if that's what you're going for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Off the relationship. Okay, well Vince and I offed again once and then on again again. Everybody knows once you're allowed One time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Otherwise, your friends are so sick of you talking about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If it's on again, off again, it just is. Everybody is. Knows it's a dead in the water situation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're just like. You're needy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You just can't let it go. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Advice from Karen and Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So there's so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't listen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But as they're looking into it, they also find that Larry Austin has a bit of a murky past himself. In 1983, he was convicted of one count of grand theft as a result of an embezzlement case at a company that he worked for. And he actually served 22 months in state prison. And then also they start to look into his ownership of the theater. Because Dorothy Hampton, who owned it, the widow John Hampton, she being in the convalescent home, they didn't track any money going to her from the theater, even though she was the original owner. So they. They were afraid that they. It looked like he had Dorothy Hampton's blessing in this reopening and basically in the ownership of it, but they didn't have any. They didn't have any proof. She hadn't signed anything over to him that they could prove. So they end up freezing the IRS and the LAPD end up freezing Larry Austin's assets and putting the theater in a conservatorship until they can figure out what's going on. Because it's not even like, oh, he was killed for the theater, because it might not have even been his. His to give to anybody, definitely. So it turns out, turns out there's a break in the case. They put a sketch in the newspaper of the guy that held up the place. And somebody sees that and comes forward to the police and tells the whole story, which is Van Sickle hired this guy who ended up doing the murder. And his name was. It turns out his name was Christian Rodriguez. He was also 19 years old. Shit. And Van Sickle hired him, promised to pay him 25 grand to kill Larry Austin and make it look like a robbery. That's why he also shot Mary Giles.

Right?

Because it was like, oh, what would a robber do in this case?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he just fucking took another person out for free.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What he did? Well, Van Sickle said he was gonna pay him an extra five grand to kill any. To basically to make it look like a robbery and kill anyone else that was there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's horrible. I'm so glad Mary survived. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's insane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so fucking crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Heartless.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well. And what it was was he found out he was named in Larry Austin's will as being the person that was

[Karen Kilgariff]

going to inherit everything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he would have. But he apparently was in such debt and in, like, such financial straits, he wasn't going. Larry Austin was 74 years old at this time, and he couldn't even wait to inherit. Yeah, he's like, I want all of it now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dude.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was the projectionist the night of the murder. He was there. He came downstairs. He was the one that hit the alarm that got the police there when he went downstairs and found Larry's body.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is such a creepy detail.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. So he was there pretending to be all upset and freaked out. He told all the friends the stories, and all the friends were like. We thought he was, like, completely traumatized and that this was just so much of a thing against him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Almost perfect that he was there, you know, like, it just seems like he's less. If he wasn't there, it'd be like, where was he?

[Georgia Hardstark]

But, yeah, anyways, it's kind of more proof that he was, like, right there, making sure it all went out.

Totally.

So essentially, he didn't pay afterwards. He didn't pay Christian the money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't do that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And so that's why that guy, whoever the anonymous person was that came forward, was basically someone who knew Christian Rodriguez and was. Was like, he was supposed to pay this money. He didn't do it. Like, you know, so they. When they go find Christian Rodriguez, of course Rodriguez completely turns on totally James Van Sickle. So in April of 1999, Christian Rodriguez is found guilty of murder and sentenced to life without parole. And he was also convicted of the attempted murder of Mary Giles.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Da, da.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Van Sickle was also sentenced to life without parole. Neither of them got the death penalty. And Mary Giles survived and testified against Christian Rodriguez in court. She's like, that's the man that shot me two times in the chest.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Insanely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's a badass.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Insane. So when all that happened happens, like, the cops come to Flanagan, and they ended up. The cops talked to them, were like, are you in on it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because your friend Flanagan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, they had. The cops came almost immediately after the fundraiser because they're like, how come you're giving money to this guy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they're like, oh, we're trying to be good neighbors. They're immediately, like, looped in on it and have to basically go, like, yeah, we don't know him. We just thought we'd be nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It does look like they're like, yeah, let's start a fundraiser.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, let's get more money for you. Or whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kind of in on it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, they had to prove they weren't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Had nothing to do with it and didn't really know the guy. Which is one of my favorite. Like, when Flanagan told me that story, I was crying, laughing, because he's like, we're, like, basically faking it and trying to be nice and like, sure, of course we care. And then immediately they're just like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like, we just started this business and now we're under investigation for murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, now we're in on it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One of the saddest things and that the, like, final thing that I put at the end of the. This is in his court file. There was a forgery charge that James Van Sickle had, that they had a letter from Larry Austin attached to it that was attesting to James Van Sickle's good character, trying to get him out

[Karen Kilgariff]

of the forgery charge because he loved him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because he really did love him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so sad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's very sad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want to see photos of them. I'll look it up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you can.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Me and my photos, man. Use my fucking imagination.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow, that's. That, that's amazing because everyone knows that murder. It reminds me of the Zanku chicken murder, where it's like, there's this, like, iconic place in la and it's like, here's this fucking insane story behind it. Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And there are people, like, there was a guy that was trying to make a documentary about Larry Austin. Because of. It was that kind of those early days of, like, back when, you know, Larry Austin would be like, everyone would know who he is. He'd have a website these days. But back then, it was like, you had to be. That was back in the. You know, I like them first days where everything was word of mouth. If you like something cool, it's because

[Karen Kilgariff]

the person told you about it. Secret underground thing. Yeah. That you had to stumble upon and know about, like, comic book shops and all these record stores and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So there's this guy that was. And this is in the episode of Demons and City of Angels, there's a guy that was trying to make a documentary about Larry Austin for years. And he was a big fan of the silent movie theater. And he. Before he got killed, this was before. And he would be like, I just want to, like, follow you around and whatever. So this guy was there to attest because he had started this documentary and he Was kind of there. He knew all the players. He, like, knew everything that was going on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's crazy. Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And did he ever finish it? Because what a fucking crazy finish to it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I don't know. I mean. Yeah, because now the finish is, oh,

[Karen Kilgariff]

that guy got murdered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I don't think. I don't think so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Probably not. Yeah. That's not what he wanted. That's not the direction he wanted to go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think so. I mean, it's so horrific. But I mean, also if he did, that would be kind of crazy. Could be like, guess what happened? Because to me, the creepiest time is after someone gets murdered and before anybody finds out who did it, there's all these people who are pretending and it's like this guy, James Van Sickle had to pretend to be the heartbroken, shock traumatized boyfriend for months. Like, basically up until who? For months.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who can do that? Yeah, those people are scary. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, if you don't have a conscience, then it's easy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Anyway, shit, that was great. Thanks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing, Karen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you for listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, my pleasure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we're back. Karen, any updates on this story?

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are some. So not long after this episode aired In November of 2017, Cine family, the movie theater, formally shuttered. This was due to financial problems is what the official story was. But it's also linked to the allegations that we talked about in that episode. Certain members of leadership had sexually harassed and assaulted staff and volunteers, created a toxic work environment, and it kind of blew up from there. In late 2019, there was a brief attempt to rebrand the theater as the Fairfax. But of course, then Covid hit and it didn't really matter. The theater closed again. And then in late 2020, interestingly, a streetwear company called Brain Dead took over the space. So you know how there's all those shoe stores and all that stuff on, like, Fairfax there that are kind of near Cantors?

That.

That's what that whole area is known for now.

Yeah.

So now a streetwear company owns the movie theater and they host screenings there regularly. Now, today.

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm curious about. See what it looks like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, grab your skateboard and your backwards hat and let's go down there.

My sneakers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What are the British people call them? My trainers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, grab your. Your trainers and your boot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you drive up Fairfax on a Saturday or Sunday morning, there's always a line for some new shoe drop out outside. It's like around the block. It's Insane there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The first time I felt officially old, like, oh, I'm no longer young. Was driving by one of those lineups and being like, what are they doing that for? What is that a. Is that the movies? What is there a celebrity or having. No idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I will tell you though, it's. It's not about age because Vince Woke up at 4am the other day to get in the virtual line for a shoe drop.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, if you're in it, you're in it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I appreciate it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? He's a big shoe hound. He's a big clothes horse.

Yeah. What do they call him? Sneaker head.

A sneaker head. A jeweler for shoes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He wears shoes.

He loves a shoe.

So let's head back into the episode real quick for good things of the

week,

[Karen Kilgariff]

happy things this week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What you got?

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is super dumb, but I think it's a small. Like there's so many things I want to fix my dude. To fix my house. And most of them are very large. And so I do that thing where if I have a bunch of things to do, I don't do anything because it all becomes very overwhelming.

My God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

Right? So you're just like, so, so don't

[Karen Kilgariff]

do any of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't do anything because, oh, it's so

[Karen Kilgariff]

hopeless and blah, blah, blah. How do you pick one thing? Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. Right? Because I'm like, oh, I need to repaint my house. I need to fix. There's tons of stuff that I need a cont. A contractor for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God, don't do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But instead, I was getting other shit at Target. This is not a commercial, but I found. Found a lamp at Target. Like just a standing lamp to go into my front room where there's never good light. You have to be careful of lights in your house and in your surroundings.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is freaking me out. Go on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Did we get the same lamp?

[Karen Kilgariff]

A, my thing that made me happy this week was going to target at 8am this morning.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

B, in my car is a standing lamp.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Is it brass colored?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. A clear shade. We got the same clear shade. No, see through glass shade.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I saw that one though. I got the one that looks. That looks basically like a desk lamp.

What the fuck?

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How did we.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, because. Well, here's the thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our periods are synced and our targets are synced and our lamps are synced.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now this is our new life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is our life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're my husband.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi. My wife. I was just gonna say that little Change of just trying to make it look slightly nicer in the room I'm mostly in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It puts me in a great mood. And because I did that when I got home from Toronto, I looked at the pile of mail on my counter, which is just. I assume it's supposed to be there, and it just, like, it gets kind of high, and then I go like this. Then gets really high again. I got rid of all of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Girl, I need to do that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. And that's how I found that check. Remember when I texted you? I'm like, hey, I should rip this up, right? But I want to double check because it was, like, laying on top of it, that pile.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What the, man?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Clear your piles, guys. Clear your piles and get, like, one new thing that's gonna make you feel good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Light. You see this place at night, it's so dim, and it depresses the out of me. Yeah. Like, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh, let's get that lamp up here.

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Help me carry it. Steven, go grab that lamp.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, wait, so I just stole yours because that was gonna be your this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what my happy thing is that we just did that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That our period sank this week. I know it's gross, everyone. Tmi. But I got so excited and had to text you. Is that gross?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wrote back, I'm so sorry. And then she wrote back, the ultimate sign of friendship.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I was like, I mean, yay. All that means is, like, we're spending quality time together.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So much time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Oh, nice. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now I want to set that lamp

[Karen Kilgariff]

up right this second. Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, don't be afraid to buy, like, a 30 watt light light bulb because everything's dusty and it's so bright.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, got it, got it, got it. Look how many. I have 18 vintage lamps in here, and they're all dim.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, because you've got the shades dark in it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're like those huge shades that your grandma had.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's what I have, too.

Okay, we're back. Karen, did you ever make that room beautiful or did you move? I can't remember.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think I moved away from that room so I no longer had to make it beautiful. But I really love the recurring. We got the same lamp element of our lives. Just like, wait, you got that lamp. I got that lamp.

It's crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our lamps are in sync.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love that.

Oh, it's so funny. So, okay, so this episode was originally

[Georgia Hardstark]

titled the Finch, and if we were naming it today. Let's pick a couple of our favorites. Of course, we have to call it Rocket Businessman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That truly made me laugh out loud. Also, seven red flags was me specifying. Hanging out with teenagers is seven red flags.

I like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love new math that your dad thought your dad considered it new math. If he couldn't figure it out, it

[Karen Kilgariff]

was always new math's fault. Exactly. Also, hi. My wife was a funny, funny moment. I mean, they just kept coming. The hits kept coming in this one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's. Yeah, very funny. And then, of course, there's no fixing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're not cats. Appreciate that. Appreciate that one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's fun to keep in mind in

[Karen Kilgariff]

the forefront the true wisdom that's just sitting in these old episodes. You've got to mine it for the gold that that's there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Speaking of cats and cookies, let's say goodbye from the pod loft back in 2017.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We've done it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We did it. We done it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We've done it again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We've done it again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks for listening, everybody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you guys for listening. You're all fucking angel babies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We couldn't do it without you. We're only doing it for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, there's nothing without you. This is all for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're nothing without you. You. Yeah, it's all for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And stay sexy and don't get murdered. Bye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Elvis. Hold on. Give him a second. Elvis, a cookie. Here he comes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There he is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look, all sleeping, sleepy Elvis. Want a cookie? Want. Want a cookie? I like quiet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Internet loves to say, go touch grass as though lawns aren't a constant source of stress.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Brown Patch Personal Failure Fertilizer. Grow up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sunday is a yard care company designed to make that easier.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They analyze your soil, use climate data, and build a custom yard plan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sunday uses nutrient dense ingredients, not harsh chemicals.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which feels better already.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go to getsunday.com to get your free custom yard and analysis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's getsunday.com goodbye. This may surprise you, but clothes that feel good and look good don't have to be mutually exclusive designs that make

[Georgia Hardstark]

you feel as good as you look is what Hill House is known for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hill House Home invented the viral nap dress.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hill House makes fun, versatile fashion that elevates your look. I now own three nap dresses. I love them. They are so comfy and cute. Pockets for days.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pockets for days.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get 15% off your first order of $100 or more at Hillhouse Home.com with code MFM15.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's MFM15 for 15 off at HillhouseHome.com goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Taking care of yourself is hard enough without adding a blender and a bucket

[Karen Kilgariff]

of spinach to the mix.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Groons makes it simple to get your greens. No chopping, mixing or pretending you like kale required. Just eight daily delicious gummies packed with over 20 vitamins, minerals and 60 whole food ingredients. They're vegan, gluten free and taste like fruit snacks. Plus there's Groons kids for the the little ones. Whether you're already into wellness or still figuring it out, Groons fits right into your routine. You've got nutrition gaps and Groons fills them. Use code MFM for up to 45% off. That's code MFM for up to 45 percent off. Groons get your greens the easiest way possible. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your next beach escape starts with a great deal from cheap Caribbean Vacations.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get 175 off instantly on Dream beach retreats in Punta Cana, Jamaica, Aruba and the Balcony Bahamas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sun, sand and serious savings are waiting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Visit CheapCaribbean.com and get more beach for less money. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sometimes you need a trip that actually feels like an escape, not just a change of scenery.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's exactly what Baja Mar and Nassau delivers between the casino and the water park. Like I could have stayed there for months.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were so lucky to get to visit this place and it truly I just kept saying like, this is such a good idea where you immediately want to be in a tropical location, but then you also want to go out to dinner that night. That is the ultimate vacation for me of you're getting a little treat of everything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's paradise. Plan your own [e-mail] Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.