Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 94: Go Get Your Thing

Summary

My Favorite Murder – Rewind with Karen & Georgia: "94: Go Get Your Thing"

Podcast: My Favorite Murder
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff & Georgia Hardstark
Release Date: April 29, 2026
Episode Theme: Revisiting Episode 94 ("Go Get Your Thing"): Listener Favorites, Serial Killer Deep Dives, Bloody Benders, and Morehouse Murders

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Episode Overview

This Rewind episode features hosts Karen and Georgia looking back at one of their most memorable episodes—#94, “Go Get Your Thing”—originally released in November 2017. They listen back, reminisce about early podcast days, update case developments, share behind-the-scenes stories, and reflect on the enduring themes of true crime, trust, and survival. The episode dives deep into two notorious cases: the Bloody Benders (America's serial-killing "family") and the Morehouse murders (Australian killer couple David and Catherine Birney). The hosts offer their signature blend of gallows humor, self-deprecation, survivor admiration, and feminist critique.

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Main Topics and Key Discussion Points

1. Revisiting Early Podcast Days

Time Stamps: 02:46–06:06

• Karen and Georgia talk about adapting to podcasting after live tours, balancing exhaustion, and creative energy.
• They reminisce over “the apartment version” of MFM, feeling out of practice after being on the road.
• Banter about the importance of “wonder” in life, TV references (The Wonder Years), and amusing anecdotes like Karen being starstruck by Fred Savage on a set.

"It's difficult to tour this great nation of ours and then come back and immediately start recording podcasts. That's not an easy balance to strike." – Karen (03:33)

2. Binge-Watching, TV Culture & True Crime Podcasts

06:08–09:12

• Discussing “Mindhunter”—Georgia rates it ("Four stars... out of infinite.").
• Shout-out to “Someone Knows Something” (new season involving a 1964 Klan murder case) and the work of legitimate investigative podcasters.

"It's so important... fucking kudos to podcasts like Someone Knows Something... who are doing important things." – Georgia (08:54)

3. Early MFM Lore and Serial Killer Board Games

09:23–11:12

• A listener’s gift: a custom “Guess Who?” game using serial killers as characters.
• Playful riffing on turning it into a podcast ritual, competition, and lighthearted stakes.

"I think that we should play one game before every time you record from now on... whoever wins the most games gets $50,000." – Karen (11:01/11:05)

4. Inside Jokes, Music, and The Business of Podcasting

11:14–15:48

• The success of their podcast ringtone, copycat versions, and humorous “conspiracy” theories about Russian bots.
• Behind-the-scenes with their producer Steven and theme song variants.
• Kansas City show plug and humorous brunch invites—segues into food nostalgia (Monte Cristo sandwiches and private vs. public sandwich eating).
• Correction corner: Georgia’s previous flippant remarks about pets on Prozac and listener pushback.

“Very. Monte Cristo is a private sandwich.” – Georgia (15:52)

5. Rewind Case #1: The Bloody Benders (Kansas Serial Killer "Family")

Starts ~27:27, Deep Dive to 54:48

Story Summary:

• 1870s Kansas: "The Benders" present as a family of German homesteaders running a wayside inn/general store.
• Daughter Kate is a “psychic”—locals buy in.
• Travelers vanish: Posse investigates after a local doctor disappears.
• The benders flee; their cabin is found abandoned, with the floor soaked in congealed blood and multiple bodies unearthed in the orchard—at least eight, possibly 20+.
• The Benders are never caught: rumors abound (including a wild hot-air-balloon escape theory); family relationships may have been faked as a cover for a group of con artists/murderers.

Notable Quotes/Moments:

• Canvas Divider, HGTV Parody:
  "I'd love to pull down this canvas and just open up this space so we could see right into the orchard." – Karen (31:02)
• On the Bender Family:
  "They were basically a gang of thugs that got together and were like, if we pretend we're a family, people will trust us..." – Karen (48:08)
• Surreal Escape Theory:
  "A hot air balloon crashed onto the deck of the boat and the benders were inside..." – Karen (46:14)
• True Crime Reflection:
  "You love a black widow. You love a vintage black widow." – Georgia & Karen (49:34/49:37)

Recent Developments (Update):

• The Bender farm ("Hell's Acre") sold to Bob Miller (2020), who works with KU anthropology to excavate—over 1,200 artifacts discovered; plans for a potential museum. (53:27)
• Recent books: All the Blood We (historical fiction) by Camilla Bruce and Hell Comes to Play (nonfiction) by Lee Ray Ralph.

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6. Rewind Case #2: The Morehouse Murders (David and Catherine Birney, Perth, Australia)

Starts ~55:07 (Georgia’s Story)

Story Summary:

• 1986, Perth: A terrified 17-year-old escapes to a vacuum cleaner store, reporting abduction and rape—police are skeptical, until details (like pseudonyms and medicine bottles) confirm her story.
• The Birneys—a sexually sadistic, co-dependent couple with traumatic childhoods and criminal histories—preyed mostly on young women via "hitchhiking rides."
• Four women are abducted, raped, and killed over a month-long spree. The survivor, Kate Moir, escapes by breaking a window and cleverly leaves evidence around their home.
• Both perpetrators are caught and receive life sentences. David dies by suicide in prison (2005); Catherine continues to be denied parole.

Notable Quotes/Moments:

• Survivor Empowerment:
  "She knew she had, like, a 200:1 chance of surviving, but she was gonna do whatever she could to make it happen..." – Georgia (86:37)
• Code Word Discussion (Dark Humor meets Practical Advice):
  "I like the idea of a pre-agreed code... If the word suburbanites comes out of any of our mouths, it's code red." – Karen & Georgia (84:05–84:42)
• On Complicity:
  "The only way I was able to even wrap my mind around what, how and what was this movie [Hounds of Love]. Right. So I think. I didn't think I was planning on doing this... until I saw this movie." – Georgia (74:03)
• Reference to the movie Hounds of Love as a must-watch (for the strong of stomach) depiction of this case.

Recent Developments (Update):

• Catherine’s surviving son (alias) has advocated for the death penalty and parole law changes, supporting survivor Kate Moir’s campaign.
• Georgia references the documentary “Murder Uncovered” and recommends Hounds of Love (2016).

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7. Reflection: Misogyny, Danger, and Cultural Change

20:36–22:52, 93:24–94:07

• Extended commentary on how and why women are “conditioned to be vigilant,” contrasted with men’s socialization and bystander apathy.
• Frustrations with “not all men” excuses and the important role of allies.
• "If your friend calls women FEMA and talks about their value—high value men, high value women, blah, blah, blah. That's the craziest...like a bunch of 12 year old boys got into a room, never got out of that room, and somehow got a microphone to the world. And now people are like, yeah, female, you're not high value." – Karen (22:11)

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8. Good Things of the Week

96:04–102:17

• Georgia recommends Big Mouth (Nick Kroll & John Mulaney’s animated coming-of-age series).
• Karen recommends the film Wind River, which spotlights missing Native American women (with a correction: directed by Taylor Sheridan, not a woman); placeholders for deeper conversation about overlooked violence against marginalized groups.

"At the end, it does one of those, like, true facts go up onto the screen. And Native American women go missing on reservations constantly. And there are no reports about it. Ever, anywhere, ever. No one looks into it." – Karen (100:49)

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9. Running Gags, Notable Quotes & Light Moments

• The eternal sandwich debate—“Monte Cristo is a private sandwich” (15:52, 103:29)
• Joking about starting a food podcast and riffing on “is it a sandwich?”
• “I thought of your pig people”—MFM’s in-joke about forensic soil analysis (104:34)
• Dark humor throughout to leaven the heavy content, e.g., “Now we do our cooking podcast. Just a clean transition into recipe: Stir the congealed blood into the oatmeal.” – Karen & Georgia (79:50)

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10. Episode Title Ideas and Meta-Reflection

103:29–104:55

• Candidates include: “Monte Cristo as a Private Sandwich,” “I Thought of Your Pig People,” “The Horse Won’t Start”—lighthearted closure after grim stories.
• Contemplate MFM’s legacy and a future food spin-off.

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For New Listeners: Why This Episode Stands Out

• Vintage MFM Chemistry: Karen and Georgia’s blend of dark humor, survivor celebration, feminist critique, and playful asides is on full display.
• Deep-Dive Case Analysis: Meticulously recapped crimes, with empathy for victims and skepticism for easy narratives.
• Life-Saving Tactics Highlighted: The “code word” discussion, forensic evidence hiding by survivor Kate Moir—a focus on agency and practical lessons for listeners.
• Social Critique: Reflects on misogyny’s persistence, the true sources of danger, and the importance of systemic change.
• Updates You Won’t Get Anywhere Else: The Bloody Bender site’s ongoing archaeological dig, parole law activism in Australia.
• Levity: Pop-culture riffs, food debates, board game rituals, and camaraderie elevate heavy material.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:46–06:06 – Podcasting after tour, “wonder” bits, Fred Savage story
• 06:08–09:12 – Mindhunter, podcast admiration, important historical cases
• 09:23–11:12 – Serial killer board game, Instagram, MFM rituals
• 27:27–54:48 – Bloody Benders deep dive
• 53:27 – Bloody Bender land update & recent books
• 55:07–94:51 – Morehouse Murders (David & Catherine Birney) deep dive
• 96:04–102:17 – Good things of the week: Big Mouth, Wind River
• 103:29–104:55 – Playing with episode titles, future plans, closing banter

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Recommended for:

• Fans of in-depth true crime recaps, with personality and POV
• Listeners eager for updates on old cases, survivor stories, and “what’s changed” since 2017
• Those who want genuine laughs and insight as a palate cleanser between dark revelations

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Signature Closing:

“Stay sexy and don’t get murdered.” 

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If you’re looking for a blend of real-life horror, humor, pop culture, and feminist reflection—this is essential MFM.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com mFM and enter promo code SPACE80. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My foreign.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is a show where we recap our early episodes with case updates and hot take revisions and all the unlocked memories that we can muster today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're rewinding to episode 94, which we named go get your thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This episode originally came out November 9th, 2017.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 94.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi, and welcome to my favorite murder the apartment version.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God forbid we ever do one of these.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God, it's been so long. It feels like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Doing like a regular episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what I feel like we've discovered in touring this great nation of ours?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's difficult to tour this great nation of ours and then come back and immediately start recording podcasts. That's not an easy balance to strike.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It isn't. It's a huge difference. I think I'm more used to live shows now than I am to this. Sitting on my couch, talking to each other.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And it's also, we have to do a bunch of work to do those live shows. And then when we come back, we have to do a bunch of work to do this version of the show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Complain, complain, complain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, you just got to wonder, you know, it's so true. You just have to wonder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's such a good point. And wait and look and learn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look, learn, listen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And again, wonder at the end.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then at the end of the day, you're just left wondering.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You bookend the day wondering and wondering.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But hopefully with like a childlike sense of wonder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I think that's. And definitely while you watch the Wonder Years, I think that's important.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Definitely. You have to do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You have to have Kevin Arnold narrating your life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did I ever brag to you about the time that Fred Savage directed a TV show I was working on?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he. I was so starstruck by him. And because he is Kevin Arnold, it's just like that's who that person is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He will always be. And he looks. It's like it's a grown up Kevin Arnold. It's not an actor who's like, oh, yeah, it's fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not a version of Kevin Arnold. It's Kevin Arnold. And he sounds exactly the same and he looks the same. And he couldn't be a nicer, more talented and more professional person. So he's the kind. And this is very rare in Hollywood, where if he's talking to somebody else and you're standing there, he'll turn and include you in the conversation, which the first time he did that, because it was on 2 Broke Girls, and I was working with Pat Walsh, so he and Pat Walsh are good friends. So I haven't. You standing there. So then he just, like, turned, and it was like the bright shining light of Kevin Arnold was suddenly coming back my way. It was very upsetting, and I think I just made a face and walked away because it was like I didn't realize how starstruck I would. Yeah, it didn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Anyway, I would have been, too. I would be. I will be. I'm gonna be positive when I meet him one day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I would, and I would.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I will, and you would, and you will. And I bet you he's used to it, because it's one of those things of, like, there's a. There's a generation of people that he talked directly to once a week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. It's fucking crazy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the wonderment we're talking about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, exactly. I finished Mindhunter today, finally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And what's your end opinion?

[Georgia Hardstark]

My end. My end game is that just want it to be a show about the guy who plays Ed Kemper. I just want to watch Ed Kemper. The Ed Kemper character.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Live.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Live. And love in Prison.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just love an amazing show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just love that guy. The guy who plays him is fucking Pitch Perfect. What if he weren't pitch perfect 4? Is there a 4 yet?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if he can sing a cappella group ensemble Bullshit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goes back to college. He's like, I'm going back to college.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. I want to kill all the women around me, but listen to my angelic voice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe he starts an acapella thing in prison.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Brings everyone together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's how he begins to compete in the Pitch Perfect universe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. And that's how he begins to heal from being a fucking psychopathic murderer piece of shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he finally proves wrong all of the theories that you cannot cure a psychopath.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because you actually can cure a psychopath with acapella singing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's all it takes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you. If you can, without any music with your friends, sing Boys to men. Well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're. You're cured.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're human.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's hope for all of us. All of us psychopaths. So then. Three stars. Five stars.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I just. You know. You know me. I'm such a. I'm such a complainer. I. I liked so much about it. I liked a lot about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Four stars. Three and a half stars.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Four stars.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Out of how many? 12.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, an infinite amount of stars. So it could be three. Shit, we don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But four out of infinite is still very low.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'd like to remind you of the wall that had a rainbow painted on it in an apartment that was just presented as like, here's an apartment, and this is how it's decorated when. When the doctor, Wendy what's her name, was getting in a new apartment and kind of like starting her new life. And they. The real estate agent was like, walking around that apartment. They walk into a room and there's just a, like, really gross colored. Yeah, four colored rainbow painted on the wall that was like a Z. Yeah. I stopped and took a picture of that screen with my phone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So good. I also want to say that the new season of Someone Knows Something came out this week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they fucking just threw them all up. Which is, like, fun, because then you're

[Karen Kilgariff]

like, you can binge goodbye forever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna listen to it. And I started listening. It's really good. Of course. And it's about two Black teenagers in 1964 who were killed by the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi. And he's fucking going back to investigate it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is bananas, insane, and so important and like, fucking kudos to people to podcasts. Like, Someone Knows Something in the fall line who are doing important things. Important work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Unfortunately, still fucking relevant to shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell yeah. Maybe more so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, also those guys. I mean, I actually don't know about the women who do fall line, but the guy from Someone Knows Something is a legit journalist.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's a. That's kind of what he does.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So don't feel too bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that I. Oh, I have no. I know that I have nothing. I can't come near that rainbow and touch it with my. Do anything important.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You could have you painted on your wall in a zigz.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we talk about that? Someone from when we were in Florida last weekend doing our live shows where there was also an active serial killer. While we were there, someone gave us a board game of Guess who. The game made into serial killers form. And it is fucking so cool. I want to cry. Yeah, it's on our Instagram.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've never actually seen anything but the side of this game because the second this girl pulled out this game, Georgia clasped onto it and never let it go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't even ask.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel at one point I was like, hey, we should play. And you're like. It was just like Your baby. But I have to say, I'm too old for that. I'd never played that game.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But you've probably played it with, like, niece or nephew or whatever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've never played that game.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, well, we're gonna play it, and you're gonna love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't wait to play it. Go to it. I mean, I know about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Go to my favorite murder Instagram to see photos of it. It's all the characters that it's like, does your character wear glasses? Does your character eat the flesh of his victims?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, it's just this flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, flip. Yeah, it's always Albert Fish.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Papin sisters are in there. You know, it's just like. Is your character a murdery clown? No, put him down. It's just the best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so good. And it clearly, this girl put in so much work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It was just great. And it's clever. And so I think that we should play one game before every time you record from now on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Isn't that a great. I just thought of that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's great. And then we'll keep a running tally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then at the end, whoever wins the most games gets $50,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

At the end.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At the end of this podcast run

[Georgia Hardstark]

that just got real sad at the

[Karen Kilgariff]

end of our lives. Oh, God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. And it went on forever. And they just wouldn't stop talking about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, they just kept talking about it. I would like to say this. We. I believe it was last week, put up our ringtone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it. I think Stephen immediately was number one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it was. Somebody on the. On the Facebook posted it originally and was like, within 24 hours was number one. It was number one on the iTunes ringtone chart, which is fucking hilarious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. And also Billboard. Did I tell you Billboard Awards?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't even know that was a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What else would it be, number one?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I was just gonna say. And then immediately there was a copycat, like, marimba version. Right. So I text. We're in Florida. And I text Steven. I'm like, hey, what is. Did you do that, Steven? But of course, you always forget that through a text. It doesn't sound like that. So it probably sounded like, did you do this, Steven?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you do this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Steven was like, it is not me. And then I got really sad where I'm like, that was not a funny joke. But because Steven has written his own version of our. We already have somebody to do versions

[Georgia Hardstark]

of our theme Song.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We don't need other strangers who are doing or just basically do that to all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's probably a robot who's working for the fucking Russian government, man. Listen, I'm gonna get deep into conspiracy right now. And they're fucking stealing podcast songs written by Karen in 20 minutes on her acoustic guitar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is Putin at his worst. So what we would like. So Steven's going to put. People have actually tweeted about this and asked a lot about it. When is Stephen to post his versions? So we were like, stephen, you now need to post your version so that if anybody's. If anybody isn't into the orig. And they're like, hey, what about. What about some salsa aspect or whatever?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is there a sal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can I get one that's influenced by the music of Selena?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, yes, you can, actually.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, you can.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And yes, you can. It's written by one Stephen Ray. William Ray. Did you not know about his confirmation

[Georgia Hardstark]

name, the one you just made up?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So Steven's gonna post his. Say it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I'm gonna post mine. The bossa nova one is the people have been asking about. Yes. The bossa nova one's legit. You can listen, you can download them. They can be a ringtone for, like, your grandma, or they can be your alarm clock ring in the morning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The bossa nova.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're exactly right. If you are ashamed to have a kind of like a bizarre pseudo country murder ballad, you can do a version of it that's just gonna sound like just some fun interstitial marimba music or whatever. I just keep changing the style.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, the marimba one would be good, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you have that, too?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, no, I think the bootleg was copying that because it used the marimba, which I used in the Boston. You Putin somebody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Putin went after Steven's ass.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who went after Steven? Not us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So get mad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think that makes us even angrier.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because you don't go after Steve.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. We can fight dirty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I get to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But Russians don't get.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, no, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So anyway, if you want that. When are you gonna do it, Stephen? And when's it gonna be out?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hopefully, maybe it won't. I don't know if it'll be up by this weekend. Great. This weekend?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, soon. So hold out if you want a version, hold out for Steven's version. Please don't support the weird ripoff versions.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. And you'll be able.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it's so Weird. But they don't know. People don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

People don't know. I don't know. Everyone's trying to make a buck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell me about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, speaking of, we have tickets left for our Kansas City show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice transition.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they're still available if you want to say you want to drive in from Minneapolis. You know, maybe you're free that weekend. I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen's offering options. Give them a brunch option for Sunday morning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Karen, if, say, for example, you come in for the late show, you're totally free to stay for brunch the next day in that city.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Have a nice brunch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God, that'd be nice for you. You love orange juice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You always talk about coffee and orange juice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's an excuse to eat a Monte Cristo sandwich.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which my mom would always be like, well, we are at brunch. I'm gonna get a Monte Cristo, which is a full on deep fried ham sandwich with jelly in it and powdered sugar on top. And powdered. It's like eating French toast, ham, and, like, toast with jelly all at the same time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ah, don't eat them separately.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And privately.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Very. Monte Cristo is a private sandwich.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's for the dark. That's for the dark. Have you watched anything lately? Because I got one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Alias Grace.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, the Margaret Atwood one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Margaret Atwood situation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now I haven't watched it. It's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I loved it. I did that thing, though, where I was binge watching it, so I would follow. I would fall asleep and then have weird Alias Grace dreams and then be like, was that the episode or was I sleeping?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was there a giant frog in it? I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you won't either because. No spoiler alerts. But I mean, spoilers. But. But I loved it. I thought it was super fascinating and it's really well made. Yeah, I recommend.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, I have one thing that I've been watching, but I'm gonna save it for my thing that I love at the end of the show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause it's different. It's weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Perhaps I should have done the same.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Save that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Save it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cut it. Okay. Is that everything?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Any corrections? Corners? Oh, I have a correction corner. And that fact that people got upset with me that I said that. That putting your animal on Prozac was very la. They're like Hollywood. They're like, I live in fucking, I don't know, Florida and my cat's on Prozac like, people were specifically telling me that, you know, which I appreciate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do ya? Sounds like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I don't. But I get. But I get it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was a couple people in the VIP when we were in Florida. Thank you, by the way. I have to say, we had the best time in Florida.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We had a Tampa, Orlando, Fort Lauderdale. And everyone there was like, thanks for coming to Florida. Like, we were doing everybody a big favor. And we had. The shows were amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So much fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Audiences were amazing. So good. We had the best time. And you guys get. You guys get a bum rap. What with all the, like, people eating each other's faces.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, the murder. Which is what we came for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So we were. We were not. We were not surprised.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we're back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A lot of early. My favorite murder lore that I just, like, completely forgot about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like Cameron Britton from fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mindhunter, who later came and did our LA show. Like, our LA live show at fucking Microsoft Theater.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What a gem. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a great example of what it's been like to be two people who are just regular people who watch TV and like, a thing and suddenly are like, now the thing we like, here he is. Or it's just like that kind of progress of like, yeah, the armchair quarterbacks who suddenly are now in the game. It's crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What a crazy time of life that was for us. Like, those, like, first three years of the podcast were such a whiplash and like, you know, someone knows something. Being a fucking podcast that we loved. I remember that it just seems like

[Karen Kilgariff]

me working on Two Broke Girls and being like, oh, hey, Fred Savage was a detective is like, how the fuck. I mean, I didn't really write. I did my best on that show, but I didn't participate that much. But it still was really stressful to have job like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, no, insane. Yeah, I bet. And now you only have four and a half jobs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I. Maybe it just broke me early in a way that then worked really well for what was coming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure. Well, Mimi's still not on Prozac, poor thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But she doesn't get any.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She wouldn't take it. She was like, I like the way I am. And I'm like, you know what? Then that's good. Then that's fine. And she's thriving.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would say Mimi is so 2026 that 2017 didn't make a lot of sense to her, where she's just like, it's called my dulu. I get to like it. And whimsy. She's like, going like this, saying, you ate. She was so ahead of us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. She does what I do to my therapist when I'm like, I'm scared of all these things. And then it's like. But I'm not wrong. That's the problem. It's like, I'm not talking about dragons. I'm talking about serial killers. Like, they fucking exist.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I read about them all the time, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, it's funny. I just saw Patton Oswalt was on Neil Brennan's podcast, and Patton was talking about how, like, we all paid attention to serial killers. But the irony is that the really bad people are the ones, you know, and the ones that are close and the ones in government and the ones like, we are. We are afraid of the anomaly and the outlier and focusing on that because we're surrounded.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I think for him, he was talking about kind of a different thing, but as I watched him say it, I was like, that's totally true. But for women, it's because we need to run scenarios because it's very, very real. Whereas for men, going, like, it's crazy that we're scared as serial killers. And it's like, no, it's not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. No, it's not. Yeah. Like, we. I mean, what was I watching the other day where it was, like, a woman who was ready to react the way she needed to react, and I'm like, oh, she's been conditioned do that since she was a child.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But the man hasn't been conditioned not to make a woman uncomfortable his entire life. And maybe if that happened first, we wouldn't have to have our, like, our drained adrenals and constantly be on guard and, like, be more afraid to be with a man than a bear, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, and. And the second you say bear, not man, they're like, fuck you. I'm gonna kill you. And there's a bunch of them right outside your apartment door. Yeah, I mean, like, that I feel like, like. And I'm sorry to say the phrase now more than ever, but I mean, like, now as opposed to ever before, people are all getting on the same page. So it's like, there's certain people who just never get on that page because they're like, no, that's, you know, whatever. But I think that people. The thing that used to really bother me was when there would be that really overt sexism or that really overt, like, almost threatening vibe, and dudes you knew did nothing or said nothing. So I think it's like, like nowadays at least the cultural norm is becoming. Oh, oh, are you not gonna say anything? Oh, okay, then you're a coward. My girlfriend will come and help me out of this situation and we'll just continue confirming these things that we believed, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, bro, if you haven't shamed your friend for saying not all men and explain to him why this is the most fucking upsetting thing you could say. Like, tell him if you don't, if you don't believe that, tell him why. I mean, it's just like your basic fucking job to do that basic shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If your friend calls women FEMA and talks about their value. Oh, high value men, high value women, blah, blah, blah. That's the craziest, craziest thing where it sounds like a bunch of 12 year old boys got into a room, never got out of that room, and somehow got a microphone to the world. And now people are like, yeah, female, you're not high value. It's like, that's right. Get the fuck away from me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It means so much to me in this day and age. I am rich because my husband doesn't get offended in the least when I say I'm so fucking sick of men. When we're watching any kind of true crime thing, he's like, yep, so true. Like, not you, of course. And he's like, I didn't think you were talking about me because, like, because

[Karen Kilgariff]

he knows the difference. It's like I saw, I remember seeing like something on the Internet and it was like a guy carrying a woman because there had been floods recently and they're like, this is not toxic masculinity. It's like, correct.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not. That's not. It's a specific thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry, we have to be. Oh, my God. Congratulations. Like, what the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our point is not men doing things as toxic masculinity. It's the bad things they do and then get coverage for or never go to jail for or lie about or. Right now we're just screaming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Well, let's get into your story then, because it's about bad things. So we're gonna stay on that topic. Anyways.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good plan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This one's crazy. And like an infamous. This cold case that you cover, of all things. When we come back, you'll tell us

[Karen Kilgariff]

if it's solved the hypocrisy. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, let's get into Karen's story about the bloody benders.

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

The iconic cushion tip applicator and portable packaging make it easy for touch ups and on the go use. I was just using one of these.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were just talking about this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean I've been using the Maybelline Instant Eraser concealer for years. I think the convenience of the little spongy swab at the top, you just dab dab dab and it's just enough so that you don't overdo it with your concealer. And mine is the pink. The 160, which is the pink color correcting. So it, like, brightens up your under eyes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm immediately using it. Find your shade of instant eraser concealer at your local retailer. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now, who goes first?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I went first. I went first in Fort Lauderdale. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Awesome. That's you then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is. Here's the. Here's the exciting surprise. I'm not sure if I've ever. If I've done this before. What? Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, well, it'll be. If you don't know, then I won't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't tell you how many times I've texted Steven and been like, sorry, is this like. It goes from like, is Georgia doing this one when we're on the road to then, like, have we ever done this one?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I've done that before. I had to look it up because you just see the same name so many times over and over, and you have to, like, look for details to remember which fucking piece of shit was the murderer that you're, like, looking for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, we talk about things sometimes without doing them, which is what I think I'm remembering on this one. Yeah, but I could be wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm excited. Let's just. Just tell me. Let's do this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the bloody benders.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which ones are they? Tell. Why don't you tell me?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, then that's a very good sign.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, well, no, it's not, because I have a terrible memory. I suck. Okay, go. That was the most disappointing sigh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wish I could be doing better right now, but I'm almost positive I haven't. I just know that there's a really good dollop about it that I've heard. I have also that thing where all of my memories are starting to just bleed into each other, where it's like, did I do the podcast myself or did I hear the dollop? Do it. Like, am I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That name sounds familiar, but I don't think we've done it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, I'll tell you about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell me about it then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let me tell you a little bit about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I actually, at one point today. Cause I had part of it done, called my sister because she wasn't doing anything. I'm like, can you please find me some articles that I can read, like, in the midst. So this was a real. This was a real 11th hour super special one. But one, the main spot that I got, like, to me, the best information was from an article on a website called Ranker, which I don't think we

[Georgia Hardstark]

talk about that much ranker.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love ranker. It is is every time there's a ranker link, that article will give me the biggest, best chunk of information.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. So good. That's my late at night reading. Like 15 EMTs tell you their most gruesome fucking thing that ever happened to them. Or like, it's just those crazy lists.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And they have endless true crime shit and serial killer shit. Yeah, endless. And there's. So the woman that wrote this article is named Kat McAuliffe. And I'm positive that I've read her stuff on E. Either also on Rancor or on other websites too. So she wrote a couple of these articles about the bloody benders. So thank you, Kat McAuliffe, for all the work you do, enabling me to do much, much less work. Okay, so in 1870, a family of German immigrant homesteaders named the Benders made their way by wagon to Lebet County, Kansas, and settled on 160 acre farm located directly. Directly, like on the Osage Trail.

[Georgia Hardstark]

100%. You've never done this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

A hundred percent.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Thank God. Because this is one of my favorites and I've wanted to do it for a long time and I don't know why I haven't. I guess I just. Just never. I lost. I lost track of it. We lost track after college. Okay, good. That makes me happy. So first the men went out. So it was John Sr. And the son, John Jr. They went and they built a barn. They built a cabin. They dug a well. Well. And then the mother, Elvira, who was also known as Kate, and then this sister named. Daughter named Kate.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, ELVIRA, like Kate Jr. Kate Jr.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kate Jr. Kate and Kate Jr.elvira or Kate Senior. They're very similar. They arrived in 1871 and they bought livestock. They had like a farm. There was an orchard that was on the property. And so basically the cabin that they built was pretty big. So it became the. And so the front of the cabin was a general store and like the inn. And then it was divided by the canvas that they put over their covered wagon. They took it off their covered wagon and then they put it up to serve as the divider between their private rooms and then the store and the rustic. You know, you can see that on

[Georgia Hardstark]

HGTV Now

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'd love to pull down this canvas and just open up this space so we could see right into the orchard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. See the lice canvas? Can we get that down? The smallpox canvas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Could we cut some circular holes? I think circular would be an amazing shape to see in this canvas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then, of course, the lice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It'd be lovely to see the lice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'd love to see the lice backlit so that I can see the patterns that they're making in the canvas. Canvas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Beautiful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So they all. Basically, they're pitching and they're like, we're gonna have this place. And it's this stopover. So at the time, of course, there were. It's, you know, it's the late mid to late 19th century America. So there's all these. They're moving to American tribes and they're telling people, you can come settle here, and then you can also. On your way, you can go out to the west.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Hey, we own this. This piece of land now. Everyone. Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go get your thing. I'm sure there's all kinds of details that people who care about history.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I think go get your thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go get your thing is sums it

[Georgia Hardstark]

up pretty much exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go get your thing, said a man in charge. And everyone went, thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So they got their thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. They were like, I thought in the Civil War, this. I'm out of here. I want to go to California.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna get my own thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Surf, smoke weed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the Osage trail was one of the ways people went out to west. Went out west. And so the benders saw that that was an opportunity. They could build this spot and have this. I keep calling it a stopover. There's a better word for it. I don't know what it is. But basically they could get provisions there and spend the night or just get their stuff and go. But it would be like this central spot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The daughter Kate claimed to be a psychic and a spiritualist who could talk with the dead. So the locals. That became a word of mouth thing where then the locals were also coming there just to, you know, tell their grandfather they loved them and stuff like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Or ask where they hid the key to the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To the safe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To the horse.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. The horse won't start. Please ask your father. And I was like, thinking, why would people travel to go get like, their palm read or whatever? It's like. Because there's no tv because there's nothing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nothing to do but. And get your palm read and then

[Karen Kilgariff]

read that old Bible someone brought in their wagon with them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also stare at the lice canvas. So this. This place kind of be. Became a place to be. Okay. I think of it as the Wendy's on the five.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's by the Split P. Anderson's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That also is attached to. To a, like, convenience store, gas station, and has a subway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly. So if you don't want to do fast food.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Some people in the car don't want to eat fast food.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ever. But, hey, everyone's got. Then also, if you need gummy bears, it's there. They're all there. Yeah, well, the vendors started that. Okay, let's attribute it to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. That was their thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was kind of their jam. Okay, so. Okay. I said they all work there, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. I actually wrote the sentence. This was the time of great expansion. What the fuck? What am I even talking about? I don't know if that's true or not. I know nothing about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It probably was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I think it was generally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen, Our great nation was growing. The Oregon Trail was happening. The video game the Oregon Trail was

[Karen Kilgariff]

happening at the time, people were playing the Oregon Trail.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Libraries across the nation, dysentery everywhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, don't forget the Donner Party was in there somewhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Go in and get your jelly beans.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go. This is your time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To the. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sarsaparilla.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sarsaparilla. The end.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. D. Do. Oh. So the thing about this, obviously. Here's what I do know for a fact. Okay, tell me that a lot of. There was obviously tons of immigrants in America as we do. So a lot of these travelers had already come off a boat. They'd already been traveling, and they were like, we gotta go get that big chunk of land the government said we could have or. Or however they were gonna do it. And they're basically like, get in there and get through. So they didn't have. You know, maybe they had their immediate family, but that was it. So if people were traveling, they weren't expected back anywhere. No one was like, whoa, you didn't hit your mark. You didn't. You said you were coming on the

[Georgia Hardstark]

20th, and how would you even. No. Call Western Union.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly. You send a letter and seven months later, somehow find someone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the. This helped the benders, because the benders were not what they seemed to be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Were they bloody?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were the bloody, bloody benders. It might just be one bloody, but.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, now it's two.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love to go sit. So when people stopped along the way, they tended to disappear when they stayed at the Bender Inn. And a lot of people didn't notice because there were just these people that were passing through. But someone did notice when a man named Georges Lanchey. I'm going to pronounce it French, but It could be launcher, but I'm going to say Georges Lache and his infant daughter stopped at the Bender Inn. They were on their way to Ohio. They were from Kansas, and they never returned home. And. And their neighbor, Dr. Henry William Henry York, was a prominent doctor. And he immediately noticed when they didn't come back, when George said he was coming back and he set out to go find them. But he did the brilliant thing that you always do before you're about to go do something, especially by yourself. You tell a bunch of fucking people what you're doing and where you're going and why. Yeah, you communicate. So Dr. William Henry York was a prominent doctor. He had a brother who was a colonel. Colonel Ed York. And his other brother, Alexander York was a senator. So he informed the superstar York brothers. He was like, hey, I'm gonna try to go find my neighbor. Something weird has happened that he didn't come back. So then when Dr. William Henry York didn't come back, the superstar brothers were like, something really weird's happening. So the colonel, Ed York got a posse of 50 soldiers to come with him. And they just started searching every single homestead along the Osage Trail. Because they were like, this is fucked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when they got to the Bender inn, it was March 28, 1873. And the colonel explained to the Benders that he was looking for his brother. And the Benders told him, yes, his brother did stay there, but then he left. And so. And there's probably a good chance that he had a run in with some of the Native Americans nearby. And they. So the Colonel left. They continued searching on. But as they asked more people around, they started hearing these stories of fucked up shit that was happening to people at the Benders. So there was a woman that told them a story of getting chased out of the Bender in with knives.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then upon hearing that, he was like, we're going back there, right? So they go back and they have another conversation with them. If you. I highly recommend listening to the. The Dollop because Dave did so much fucking research. It's so hilarious. And the. There's a whole standoff that happens when they go. When they go back to recheck because the first pass is like, oh, it's just this nice family. Yeah, you would never think twice about, you know, the son, the daughter. Everyone's so sweet and kind. When they go back, it's the. The vibe is a little bit different. And the Colonel knows he can't just arrest them. He has to have proof. He has to Have a warrant to search the house. So he's like, yeah, I'm gonna be back. Well, they go to get that warrant, and when they come back, the benders are gone. The whole cabin is empty. And when they go into the house, the cabin, to search it, they first notice there's absolutely nothing inside. Then the smell hits them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it is a smell that's so bad. And they finally realize it's coming from this trapdoor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, dear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That. And it's so bad, they open the trap door, and no one can stay inside the cabin. Oh, my God. They end up having to take the cabin off its foundation so they can look in the cellar.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because no one could do it. And when they see into the cellar, the cellar floor is covered in congealed blood.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ew. I bet it's so hot out in the middle of there too, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Probably.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ew.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So gross.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gross.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then they know something bad has been happening, and they're like, everyone's freaking out, but there's no bodies. There's no body parts or anything down there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just congealed blood.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just congealed blood. So they're like, holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the colonel goes up, and now I'm gonna. Now I'm gonna just tell a little white lie, because this is how I pictured in my mind. But I do not. I don't think there's very many hills in Kansas, so it's probably not. Who cares how I picture it? But he basically wants. Went and got, like, a bird's eye view somehow of the land. So either he went up on a little hill is how I like to picture it, and, like, looked down on it, or he just kind of got. Got back a bit, and he noticed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Drone. He got a drone. He got sent a drone up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He got a drone, which was just a hawk, and he noticed that there were depressions in the apple orchard soil.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, dear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? I thought of your pig people, dude.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My pig people. No stone unturned. That's one of the ways that they find clandestine graves, is those. And they say there's only certain times of day when you can tell where the shadow's going. If there's a depression in this. In the soil.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, if you look at it at sunset, you can see that the shadows are fucked up and there's a depression. Yeah. It's really cool. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I love it. That's all I thought of when I got to that part where I'm like, I wonder if either he had so much experience being a colonel that he had seen stuff like that before or if it just, like, hit him of, like, that's not right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Either way. They took metal rods and they started poking the earth in the orchard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's stinky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And there was some. Obviously there was some ground that was hard and solid, and then they would come upon really soft ground.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the first time they did that, they started digging, and almost immediately, they found the body of Dr. William York. He was barely. He was barely down in the ground.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they uncover him, and then they start uncovering other bodies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they end up finding eight buried bodies in the orchard alone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But some of the graves are so deep that they're like. They're realizing, oh, there could be tons of people buried out here, and we just wouldn't know it because they could have buried 10 people in one grave.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This. Steve.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They also found a father and daughter in a single grave. And there was no injuries on the girl except for she had a broken arm, but other than that, nothing. And they think they buried her alive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And put the dead body of her

[Georgia Hardstark]

father on top of her. Oh, no, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Just to. Just to really.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just to really bum you out. So let's see. So based on the injuries of the dead bodies that they dug up, they put together the story of what they figured the benders were doing. So they would have somebody that would be check into the inn, and then that night they would come to dinner at the dinner table, and they would always seat that person at the head of the table with their back, the guest's back to the canvas divider.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God, the canvas. That looks so pretty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The gorgeous lice canvas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So at some point, and I like to picture that they get them nice and drunk, so they're having a real good time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What do they have? Mead. What did they drink back then?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Back then, I would say it's some kind of a beer, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Blood Cellar Beer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So at some point in the dinner, either John Sr. Or John Jr. Not Elvira. Not Elvira Sr. Or Kate Jr. Goes behind the canvas and hits them in the head with a hammer. Knocks them out. And then Kate slits their throat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The little girl or the mom?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The girl. Kate Jr. Why does she do it? That was her jam. No, I'm not sure why they think she did it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, maybe it was something about the mother that she couldn't do it or whatever, like she was the strong one. But then they had this trap door. So they would just drop the dead body down the trapdoor into the cellar. And so that. That was all gone and away. And so that basically they could do that and get away with it. And there could be people in the general store, there could be people in the inn and they could like just get rid of these people and then they would rob them and they would get. You know, a lot of these people had stuck all their stuff in their covered wagon and had everything that they owned and had tons of money on them and tons valuables on them. And the Benders just took it all. But they also noted that there were some people that they only got a dollar off of or $10. So they said this was actually like a serial killing family. Because sometimes they just did it to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, because it wouldn't be. It wouldn't even make sense to kill a person who just had four bucks in their pocket. It was like it would actually draw attention and not be the best idea. But they did it anyway. Anyway. So right at the time, Senator York, the other fancy brother, offered a $1,000 reward for the bender's arrest, which is the equivalent today of twenty thousand dollars.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then the governor of Kansas put up a two thousand dollar reward. So forty grand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But despite all the reward money, the Benders were never caught. They were never seen again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They. They were. They have. They went. They disappeared.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Now, there was all kinds of people who said they saw them. Places that gave weird information. There were people who confessed to being the Benders. It was, you know, it was like a huge story. But they themselves were never found. Jesus. There was a story that there was a boat in Mexico that, that was out at sea in the Gulf of Mexico and a balloon, a hot air balloon crashed onto the deck of the boat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the benders were inside. And Elvira, John Sr. And Kate all died in the crash. John Jr. Survived and did a deathbed confession of. We're the benders. We killed all these people. My father made, or whoever he was. That John Cena senior was a hot air balloon maker in Germany. And he's been making this hot air balloon for our escape. And that's like, that's how he got.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You lost me. About, about what? No, not yet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That balloon perfectly landed, crash landed onto

[Georgia Hardstark]

the bow of a boat, onto three murderous. It's like. I think, I think that's how wizard of Oz started. It is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. They shut up. They took. Well that's from the wizard of Oz. I mean, there is that part. Remember, there were men in my town?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's. Remember, he's gonna leave. It's the end.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he's gonna leave. And then she's like, I'm not going with you. And.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And like. And then tap your shoes together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And tap your shoes. And then there's no place like home. Kill travelers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Blue blah. Wow. Kill travelers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, that's. That's just like a story somebody had, which is kind of genius. But ultimately there. What they ended up finding out after all of it. There were no official papers that proved that they were actually a family. So what it is believed is that Elvira, AKA Kate Senior and Kate Junior were mother and daughter. John Senior was not related to anybody by blood. John Jr. Was not related to anybody by blood. And they think actually Kate Jr. And John Jr. Were husband and wife. Common law.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that they were all. They were basically a gang of thugs

[Georgia Hardstark]

that got together that got together and

[Karen Kilgariff]

were like, if we pretend we're a family, people will trust us totally. We can't just be four randos that are sitting in a cabin going, like, come and buy oats from us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But if we're like, come to the Bender family Inn, people would be like, oh, thank God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Biscuits and good conversation with the Bender.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so they. That. It was like a scam from. From the setup.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where do you think they went? You know what's so cool is that someone listening I bet right now is related to the vendors. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And knows way more good stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or doesn't know anything. Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is just like slowly realizing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Or like someone. And they'll never know. It's like someone's great. Great. Great. Not that great. Great great aunt is Elvira.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Or great grandparents are John and Kate, who just were like, plus eight. They went and had eight kids, Elle. once in Indiana. Yeah. Let's see. I think that. Oh, the other rumor was that Elvira. Elvira had as many as five husbands before the bender in. In, you know, event. And all of them died by blunt force trauma to the head. But that is hot Goss. And I think also unproven. But that was just basically like they, you know, people trying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You love a black widow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love a black widow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You love a vintage black widow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's something so. It's almost like women were so oppressed that some women busted out in a way that, like, they just went batshit crazy where it's like oh, you're gonna oppress me. Watch how I kill everybody and. And get away with it in that way of like. She's so sweet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No one ever expect. Expected. I. No one ever suspected. Suspect. Suspect or expected. The true crime podcast. And I don't know the word suspect.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All in all, the bloody benders were believed to have killed at least a dozen people, possibly over 20.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And that is it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if. Okay, what. What if H.H. holmes. I feel like H.H. holmes must be involved in this somewhere. He was friends with them. He knew them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a similar thing. They have an inn. They have a place where people come and stay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What if. I don't know if the timeline matches up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think it does this because this is about 10 years before H.H. holmes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

H.H. holmes is John Jr.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, he is. He got taste for it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We solved it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was like. He was watching Kate slit the throats. He was, you know, he was hitting the back of the head. But on the other side of the canvas, he's like, I gotta get more of first person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, this is fun, but I'd like to do something a little crazier and a little nicer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I. Cabins are. This is trashy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, let's do a hotel.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, also, they call. They people took the cabin apart by hand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Uhhuh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I think they. They think kept. Kept it for. You know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do we know where it is? Can we visit it? Can we spend the night there?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. It's now called Hell's Acre. And they.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we camp on the ground?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't think so, because they say it's haunted.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. You could still do it though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, but it's totally cleared. They think there's bodies out there, that they know what we're about and they've like, ghost shows have gone there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, we're. We're going for a live show to have it in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To put on a live show in the center of Hell's Acre. Oh, great. I'll see. See you after. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dude, that's great. I know. I'd never.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You didn't know that? Thank fucking God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a night. That's why I was like, oh, I. I wish I knew this for a fact. But like, these days when I'm 80% sure of something, it drop immediately drops to 30% sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just kind of don't know anything anymore. So.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know that we have someone made us a Wikipedia and I think it lists each episode. Is that true? Steven shaking his head yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He knows it's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They list every episode and what each. So you can control F and put in bender. Did it come up? No. Then you've never done the goddamn thing. Well, hell yes, I know. I had to do it because I was like, have I done this murder once?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's nice that we're getting to that point. I mean, like, it's exciting that this has gone on long enough. We're in this area.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I mean, until we play our last game of Guess who, this is gonna go on for a long fucking time. And we're not gonna remember this shit. We're gonna be little old ladies being like, did I ever do Theodore Bundy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now, Steven, I am interested in Theodore Bundy. What about you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Him? Great. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was great. Okay, we are back. Karen, any updates?

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are updates. So the Benders land was sold in 2020 at auction to a new owner. His name is Bob Miller. He's long been fascinated with the family, and he connected with Kansas University's anthropology department in 2022, hoping to organize an archaeological investigation. Land. Cool, right? Such a good idea. And like, to me that's that kind of thing of like, oh, you've been interested in this story and now you're actually doing something to forward the information and answers, which is amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, the right person bought the land. It could have been sold to shitty ass developers. And this guy's like, fuck, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he's not going to put a strip mall on it. In 2023, KU anthropology faculty and students started working on that site. As of 2024, they've reportedly unearthed 1200 artifacts, including wagon parts, broken furniture, broken window glass, and many other items. And according to reports, Bob Miller dreams of someday opening a museum about the Benders on the land. How brilliant is that? He actually said, quote, the artifacts themselves are interesting, but they're only 20% of what we're interested in. Where they're found, the context in which they're found is more important to us. That can tell us how, when you're able to say this is next to that versus this is over here, you get a better understanding of the people and their behaviors. If you want to read a book about the bloody benders, after you listen to this episode in full. Novelist Camilla Bruce wrote All the Blood We, a novel of the Bloody Benders of Kansas, which is a historical fiction version of the story. And then author Lee Ray Ralph published the book Hell Comes to play in 2023. That's nonfiction. Also about the benders. So you have your choice. Oof.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want to read both of them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Me too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God. Okay, so this one, this story has stuck with me for the rest of my life, I will say. Like there's a movie about it. I think I go into it this when I hear the word Perth, Australia, I just think of this story. It's so fucking disturbing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so beautiful. Bad. So let's get into it. This is Georgia's story about David and Catherine Burney and the Morehouse murders,

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

We were just talking about this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I've been using the Maybelline Instant Eraser concealer for years. I think the convenience of the little spongy swab at the top, you just dab, dab, dab. And it's just enough so that you don't overdo it with your concealer. And mine is the pink, the 160, which is the pink color correcting so it like brightens up your under eyes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, can I ask you what color you ordered?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Black.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just ordered the maroon one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're going for jewel tones these days. Is it the woven one? And it's so pretty. It's so soft. It looks designer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's lined. It's got a pocket in the side. Like it's such a casual bag that then actually looks really nice and works really nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Quints.comm Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. Mine is a murderous family too. Is it kind of. It's a couple, yeah. All right. Like a month or two ago, someone on one of the platforms said, you guys should watch this movie called Hounds of Love.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I'd never heard of it. It's an Australian movie, like a thriller. And I was like. I was alone. Vince was out. I was like, I'm just gonna fucking watch it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Put it on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can get it on Amazon. And then my mind was fucking blown.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's okay, let's do this. It is loosely. They say loosely, but it is very, very not loosely based on this crime, on this murderous couple from Australia. And I wanted to do this couple when we were in Australia, but I ended up not doing them. So when I watched this movie, I kind of knew some of the details. And the movie is incredible because the acting is so fucking good. But I swear to God, if you are faint of heart, you're not gonna like this movie. Vince would have fucking. If you're not into true crime hardcore, you're not gonna like this movie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause it's so upsetting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's upsetting and so realistic. But it was. It's like one of my favorite movies I've watched because it's so good. Like, Vince would have been like, this is troubling. I Can't watch this. And I'd be like, yeah, me too. It's very troubling. But really, I would've been like, I gotta. I don't watch. It's so good. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is very troublesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Oh, I'm really disturbed by this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is wrong. And then he goes to bed and I like put it on. So that movie's called Hounds of Love. Watch it after I tell you about this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

About what it is based on. Even though the director said it's not or the writer said it's not. The Morehouse murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone in Perth, Australia is like, fuck yes. Right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice. Okay. Perth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Perth. Sorry we didn't come there. Perth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Again, our apologies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We'll be there one day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Someday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Someday. Okay, let's start on November 10th, 1986. So this takes place in the 80s, 86. A fucking crazy, hysterical, barely dressed 17 year old girl in this suburb of Perth runs into a vacuum cleaner shop and begs the shop owner to call the police that she had just been raped and she had been kidnapped and had just escaped. Whoa. When police got there, she said she'd been abducted at knifepoint by a couple who had taken her back to their house and raped her and held her captive. The police are fucking like bullshit. Skeptical at her. They pass her off to one of their most inexperienced police members. So it's Constable Laura Hancock's first day on the job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No,

[Georgia Hardstark]

no. She's 22 years old. This is her first statement she's ever taken.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They take this, not historical, this 17 year old girl to her who has a story and they say to her, hey, this, you need to take notes on this to write her up for lying, for making up a story. Like they don't believe it at all. And they're like, here you go, Constable fucking Laura Hancock. Do some paperwork, do some paperwork. Get this chick out of here. Um, so Ms. Laura Hancock of course, or Constable Laura Hancock of course, is a female and has empathy. So she's like, hang on a minute. There's a lot of details about this, that. And she is too. And she's telling it too emotion, not emotionally, but like emphatically that this isn't fake. Yeah. She describes getting a lift from a couple while walking home the night before. They put the knife to her and they chain her in their home on Morehouse Street. And she had escaped in the morning by breaking through a window and running. And this ends the four week killing spree at the hands of a couple that left four other Women dead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so let's go. Let's talk about the fucking motherfucking shitty ass couple. These assholes. David Bernie. It's the Bernies. David Bernie is born February 16, 1951. He's the eldest of five children. Super dysfunctional family. His parents go to ask the priest for permission to get married. And the priest, priest is like, I don't think that this can lead to anything good. His parents say that about his parents getting married.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Grows up in a suburb of Perth. There's rumors that the family. The mom's super promiscuous. There's alcoholism, there's incest going on. The house is filthy, the kids have no supervision. The mother has a mental age of 14.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Really fucked up family life. Don't feel bad for him. He's a murderer. That's right. Katherine Harrison. She's also born in 1951. She's two years old when her mother, Doreen, dies giving birth to her brother. Brother also dies. The baby father can't cope, so he sends her to live with her maternal grandparents. At 10, she gets sent back to her father. It's just a really. Her whole childhood is fucked up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, just basically adults letting her know that she's kind of not welcome anywhere.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not welcome, not wanted. Her mom is dead. So both of these people. You know, normally I would be much more sympathetic to these poor children being raised in this awful way. Of course I would. But I've been studying what they've done for, you know, a while now, and you just can't. Yep, you can't. You can't. Okay. By 14, David and Catherine are in a relationship. They lived in the same town. They started doing petty crimes together. And Catherine eventually gets caught and sent to prison and she breaks free from David, who was, by all accounts, really controlling. And so they had had this tumultuous relationship. By her 21st birthday, she's married to the son of the family. She's a housekeeper for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I bet they loved that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I think they were a well to do family.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's like the plot of 1000 Downton Abbeys of like, what, you're marrying the maid?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. By the time David's an adolescent, he had been convicted of several crimes. He had attempted rape on an elderly woman and spent time in and out of prison. In his early 20s, he marries his wife and they have a daughter. Catherine. Has seven children with the housekeeper. Dude, guy, they have seven kids.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, I was gonna say that's. That's old school Irish Catholic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. That's a lot of kids. The first, her first son, though, as a baby, is struck and killed by a car in front of her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. In their, like, driveway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So she is. If she's already fucking crazy, she's got to be out of her mind by that point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, hell yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So in 1985, she, Catherine, abandons her husband and six children and goes to live with David. They get back together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow. At this point, I mean, I have to say, when you were Talking about being 14 and doing crimes together, I got a little like, oh. Like there is something to that that I can see would be really bonding and very exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, what's really crazy about this, and there's so many aspects of it that don't make sense when you look at serial killers and one of them is like, if these two people hadn't been together, would these things have happened?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I think. And so they kind of. It's like they were made for each other because they were both fucking awful, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It's like when you meet someone and you both hate the same people. Yeah. Only like times a thousand.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then you kill those people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And then you make a list, you write it down, you both agree.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. All right. Okay. Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. So Katherine and David, they're adults now. They get back together, they move in together. They're like, it's you and me, we're Bonnie and Clyde. All that bullshit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you have any idea where they like, was it just. Did they pass in the grocery store?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you gotta wonder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wanna know really how I know?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I couldn't find that anywhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was there some kind of a dating video, dating service in their town?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was his first wife, he was cheating on her constantly. And he even put an ad in the paper saying, bored husband looking for sex. No. Because he was a crazy sex addict, like, kind of perverted and, you know, was just needing to bone all the fucking time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The marriage broke up when he. He had their 16 year old babysitter move into the house to sleep with him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dude.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And his wife was like, get the fuck out of here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

His wife's like, you know what? This plus all that laundry I have to do, I'm done. Goodbye. The romance is gone, right? Shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So these are some fucked up characters to begin with. So Catherine moves in with David. She changes her last name to Bernie. Even though they didn't come get married, they moved into a house in Willagy in Perth, Southwest On a street called Morehouse. So that's why it's the Morehouse murders. For more than a year after getting together, David and Catherine. Okay. David looks like, you know, the Juliet. Julie Louise Dreyfus husband in Veep. The tall, skinny guy with the long nose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's his name?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The actor? Dave Pasquesi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How. What? How do you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I know him in real life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. I was in a pilot with him long, long ago.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know every famous person. It's crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you hang around this dumb town long enough, you meet everyone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He looks exactly like him. Perfect. It is so uncanny. I want to show you a photo right now. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have to see that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. And then. So that's what he's looks like. And she and Catherine looks like if Juliet. Juliet Lewis was normal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God. For a second, I was gonna be like, is this some kind of a V preview? Juliette Lewis, okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Juliet Lewis, the actress and musician. If she were a basic bitch, like a normal looking, like, 80s, you know, beige wearing person, like bad shirts. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what she would look like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the actors in the movie Hounds of Love look exactly like them. Here. Karen. Steven's showing Karen a photo right now. Am I right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, but I have to say. Oh, my God, that's so funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which part?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, first of all, the Juliette Lewis woman is. Is looks like she's a pretty leaded, hardscrabble life. Like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, like a meth moisturize.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, but did you ever see District 9?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The actual actor or Chappie or any of those. That South.

[Georgia Hardstark]

South African Chateau Copley.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that his name?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. We're gonna go to a trivia night. I think that guy looks like him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I can see that for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just this, like, long, prominent nose, just like jaw line, really thin, wiry. Like he was a mechanic. So he looks. Has a mechanic, sinewy body.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. I get it. I get it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. But also, this guy's eye, David Bernie's eyes. Dead frightening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, hers too. If you see her. Like, they both are clear sociopaths. And you'll find out more so when I tell you what they did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right. That was fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, Hollywood corner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hollywood Corner. So they get back together and they start feeding their crazy sexual fantasies that they have about rape and murder that the two of them both have. And they start reading books about how to commit the perfect murder, what they could do. They even call up. They call around Town to find out where they could leave a car of one of their. If they find a victim and have to like abandon a car, where can they leave it the longest without being detected? And it turns out it's actually at the police. What? Which they end up doing with this, their first victim.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. On October 6, 1986, 22 year old Mary Nielsen, she's studying psychology at a university. She goes to the Bernie's house because she had needed to buy tires. Went to the mechanic place where David Bernie worked and he was like, oh, you know, actually I have some tires I can sell you for on the cheap. They're just at my house. You just need to come there. And she's like, great. She's a student, she's trying to save money. No, no, never. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tires belong in a tire shop.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In a stack.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In front of the tire shop.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You sit in the air conditioned office and read.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It smells like rubber.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You read of an old Highlights magazine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

While you wait. Just wait and you wait.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they get everything gets done on the premises. The end.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The end. So she goes to the house to get the tires. He immediately gags her, chains her to the bed and rapes her. While Catherine watches and takes notes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So Catherine is in on this completely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's taken to Gleneagles national park, which was their dumping ground. And as she begs for her life, she's raped and strangled with a nylon. And when she's dead, he stabs her, knowing it would speed up decomposition because they had read about it in the murder books. Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they're just animals.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're monsters. And they were planning on planning this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're organized monsters.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're organized monsters. This first Mary Nielsen, their first victim, kind of just happened by circumstance, but as we'll see, that's not what happened next. So it was just an act of opportunity and they just wanted to get away with the perfect murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So

[Georgia Hardstark]

their actual plan though is that the sun sets and they go hunting for victims in the car. They scope out the streets. Any woman who was alone, they would offer a ride. And it's a fucking nice looking young couple who's like, hi, do you need a ride? You know, it's that, that thing and they do it so perfectly in the movie Hounds of Love that you. It's. The movie is so realistic. It's creepy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, so sorry, what year is that movie from? Is it recent?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's in the past year or two.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I think so. But it looks like the 80s. It's like. It's such a good movie. Okay. All right. So they would. They would. Two weeks later, they were cruising looking for their next victim. They spot 15 year old high school student Susanna Candy as she's hitchhi along Sterling highway in Claremont. So within seconds of getting into the car with this nice couple. And in the movie they even had a baby seat in the backseat, which is like. I don't know if that's really what happened, but there's a knife to her throat and her hands are bound. She's taken back to the house, she's gagged, chained to the bed and raped. Then they force Susanna to send letters to her family assuring them that she's all right. But of course the family doesn't believe it and fears for her life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

After they finish raping Susanna Katherine, Bernie gets into bed with them and they rape her together. He tries to strangle her with a nylon cord, but she becomes hysterical. This is really fucked up, by the way. I should have started with that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no. I. I mean, but it. I think it's that it is that thing of a complicit wife to a serial killer or to a serial rapist is so beyond the pale. It's just so and so hard to

[Georgia Hardstark]

comprehend in any way. And the only way I was able to even wrap my mind around what, how and what was this movie. Right. So I think. I didn't think I was planning on doing this, the murder. Even though I had read about it until I saw this movie. And it was. Yeah. It just made sense in a way that was so troubling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And it also is the thing of like so many times I've wanted to do the Girl in the Box. The story of the woman who is. And she was also kidnapped by a husband. Husband and wife who's. The wife was, you know, obviously abused and like it was not the same situation and everything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, that's what's so interesting about this one is I don't think that that's the case at all. And of course they try to make it seem that way later, but that's not. These two people were equally complicit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Because that's not who she was really.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's just the idea of you. These assumptions that we've all made culturally. A man by himself is dangerous. A man and a woman are fine. A baby seat clears the decks. Like all those things that are just like. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally. So they force sleeping pills. They force her to take sleeping pills. And once she's asleep, David puts a cord around her neck and tells Catherine to prove her undying love for him by strangling her. Her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's how you do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which she does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. They bury her near the grave of Mary Nielsen in the forest as well. On November 1, 31 year old Nolene Patterson had run out of gas on her way home from her job as a bar manager at a golf club. She's standing by the side of the road when they drive up the Bernie's drive. She gets inside the car and so here's a creepy fucking thing. They had a code for when a girl got in the car. If they thought she was a good victim. Catherine was the one who decided if she was a good victim or not. If she was okay with, you know, because it was. If she was okay bringing this one home. Yeah, it was almost like, you can cheat on me if I choose the person. It's almost like she thought of it as cheating on her. I know. So she was say to David, I've got the munchies. And David would say, yeah, I've got the munchies too. That was their code word. And so they held a knife to her throat and tied her up and told her not to move. She's taken back to Morehouse Street. David repeatedly rapes her. They had originally decided to murder her that same night, which was kind of what they did. But David kept her prisoner in the house for three days because there were signs that he had developed an emotional attachment to her. Because she was this really, really fucking smart, you know, 31 year old woman who was like going to play them against each other and make David fall for her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's how she was going to escape. That was her plan. But unfortunately, Catherine got super fucking jealous, held a knife to her throat and gave an ultimatum that David has to kill her or she's going to kill herself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That Catherine's going to kill herself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Catherine's going to kill herself if David didn't kill Nolene. Whoa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I bet that was an unpleasant scene to watch in that movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's insane. It's fucking insane. Okay, so he forces her to Nilline to take a overdose of sleeping pills and strangles her while she's asleep. They take her body to the forest, but they bury it away from the other victims because he had some emotional attachment to her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's fucking weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. All right, then on November 5th, they abduct 21 year old Denise Brown, as she's waiting for. For a bus on Sterling highway, she accepts a ride and at knifepoint, she's taken to the house, chained to the bed again, and raped. They take her into the forest. David assaults her again, and they stab her in the neck. They go to bury her in a shallow grave, but she's not dead. And Denise sits up in the grave. What the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Hold on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm doing my nervous laughing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm doing my nervous reading because, like, suddenly I'm re. I'm realizing how. I mean, I'm not realizing, but you know, you're in this thing and you're like, this is the fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is like living hell. But also, when we were in Australia, this. I didn't know it from the Morehouse murders, but so many people from Perth were like, my mom was so. And David Bernie's boss. Or there was all these people that had. They would just mention the Bernie's. Like, my sister went to the school that blew up. Remember that? It was constantly being referenced. I didn't know what anyone was talking about, but I'd be like, that's crazy. But we just knew it was like there was a good murder and we just didn't know about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I had read about it a little bit, but. But I had so many details wrong. And I remember picturing in my head of what it looked like and what happened, and it's so wrong from what really was going on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, but that detail is. If it were in a movie, you'd be like, this is. You're going crazy. Like, let's not be. Let's not turn it into like full horror movie. Yeah, but that's exactly what this is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then guess what happened?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They killed her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They grab an ax and cut her head off. No. And just hit her in the head with the ax to kill her. But they say that this is kind of where Cat Catherine broke a little bit. The brutality of this part is. I mean, fucking stabbing someone, like, that's not bad enough. But so this is just like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it would cut through. It's just a next level insanity.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so no more people dying. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Agreed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, let's go. Let's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now we do our cooking podcast. Just a clean transition into recipe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stir the congealed blood into the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Into the cellar.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oatmeal. Yeah, into the cellar. Okay, so let's get to fucking Kate Moyer. She's a badass. She's a 17 year old, free spirit. She drops out of high School. She's a model. She's just gorgeous. There's all these videos. Oh, there's this really great true crime show called Murder Uncovered. And episode one is about her. So there's all these videos. She is the one from the beginning of the story that escaped.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, all right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So she's this fucking coolest, badass woman. On November 10, 1986, she accepts a ride around the corner from her house after a night of drinking with friends. But this nice couple picks her up and she's like, yeah, give me a ride the rest of the way home. They get to her house. She goes to open the door. There's no door handle, that thing. But they take her to the house and they say, oh, you need to roll down the window or use the door handle, whatever. And she goes to do that one, and there's no door handle, like they were fucking toying with her. And at that point, he pulls out a fucking knife and holds it to her neck. And they drive away and they tie her up. They take her to their house and they hang out with her in the living room and smoke a joint with her and talk to her and ask her all these questions. They play music and they make her strip and dance to. Okay. Ready to never hear the song again. The same way. And it's been in my fucking head since I found out what song is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, Can I guess?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Will you tell me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

86.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. Beds are Burning. But I'm trying to think of Australian bands.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it, you know, How Do We Sleep?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a good guess, but no. It's. It's. It's in that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Men at Work.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I don't know if they're Australian.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They probably are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rock set?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. What's that Roxette song?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That one?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Want me to sing it for you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think I should do it. I'm gonna say it to you, and you'll sing it. Okay. It's Romeo and Juliet by Dire Straits.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no. Wait a second. Do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sing a little Juliet. Vanish from the start. No, that's not right. Hold on, Steven. Hold on. I'm gonna play it. Can I play it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Oh, I don't think so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think we can either. You don't know it. Let me play it. You. For. For you. We're gonna pause.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just need a tiny bit more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know anymore, and I'm embarrassed of my voice. Okay, I'm gonna play it for you. We're gonna Pause. So, yeah, that was a song. And I've just been. I've had it stuck in my head the past couple weeks, and it's been real troubling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's also so creepy because, like, those lyrics where it's like, hey, let's give it a try.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a love song.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's very romantic, Quote unquote. It's. It's so creepy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's something about that that is just so eerie to me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

These people were fucking nuts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

These people are fucking nuts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nutcases.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nutcases. All right. Da, da da da da. So they, like, smoke weed with her and hang out with her. And she says to them, are you guys going to kill me? And they said, we'll just rape you if you're good. If you're good, we'll just rape you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which of course, wasn't fucking true. So David holds a knife to her throat and forces her to call her mom. She says and assure her mom that she had too much to drink and was staying at a friend's house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

House.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine, like, on the phone with your mom being like, I've said

[Karen Kilgariff]

this to you before, but things like that make me go, we have to set up a code word where if you hear me say this word in a conversation like that, something else is going on. I actually made this plan with my friend Holly Gardner when we were 13 years old. Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What was it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was like. I can't remember why something had happened where it was like either home invasion had been in the news or some kind of thing. And I was like, we were. It was some stupid thing. We were like, we have to make up a code if we ever see this. It was some kind of, like, school books. It was something about homework or books or something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it was like in the movie, the girl has to write a letter and there's a code in it that she puts in there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And yeah, it's fucking cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So was it a pre agreed code or she just put it in hoping that they would find out?

[Georgia Hardstark]

She put it in hoping that they would find out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like the idea of a page Pre agreed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, what about stay sexy, don't get murdered if we ever say that to each other. Steven's kidnapped us and made us make a podcast. You'd be like 90 episodes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know that you're trying to get me to call my family as a cover for your murder of me, right? But real quick, do you mind if I talk about a podcast with my family member? It's what we always do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, if we ever say, I don't

[Karen Kilgariff]

know, know, use the word suburbanites.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

If the word suburbanites comes out of any of our mouths, I would never

[Georgia Hardstark]

say that word normally. Okay, we never say that word suburbanites.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If suburbanites comes into the picture, it's code red.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Something bad's happening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, I'm at the suburbanites house. And like that. I'm. I'm trying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm practicing now. You have to figure out a way to f. Fit that word.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, Got drunk. I'm staying at my suburbanite friend's house. It doesn't work. It doesn't work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That really stands out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It doesn't work. What if we say. If we ever say ciao instead of

[Karen Kilgariff]

bye, so you save it up till the very end? Oh, yeah, no, but I mean, that's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or what about hola? If we say hola when we're, like, saying hello, Hola, Karen, I'm just going to stay the night at my friend's house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, all okay, done. We'll figure this out. Yeah, let's all just have a code word, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay? Dire Straits. Blah, blah, blah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. I'm going to a Dire Straits concert, and I'm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm in dire straits.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I am. I'm seriously in dire straits.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay? Then she's forced to dance with them. Then she's forced to sleep in the couple's bed while handcuffed to dance. So they rape her. Catherine joins in. She starts screaming at one point, and they come in and they say the sleeping arrangements have changed. And they bring her into their bed together. They handcuff her ankle to David's. He tries to make her take sleeping pills. She hides them in her mouth and then tucks them into the mattress while they're sleeping. Because she's like, I know that if I fall asleep here, I'm going to die. She was on fucking point and she said this is, like, her first interview ever. And she seems so normal. It's scary. Like, she seems amazing. She says she knew she had, like, a 200:1 chance of surviving, but she was gonna do whatever she could to make it happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell, yes. That's. That's the. That's the mental place you need to be in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She was there. And you know what? She kept. She started fucking doing. She was like, no one's gonna believe me that I was in this house. They're gonna. She watched them take her clothes and bash so that they wouldn't leave anything behind when they got Rid of the evidence. She knew that's what they were doing in her mind. So she said, I'm gonna leave evidence here so someone knows I was here. So she starts fucking hiding shit in the house. She makes little drawings and hides them in the mattress. She takes the pills and hides them there. She puts a lipstick in this, like, weird spot just to prove that she was there and her name and everything on a little piece of paper.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Brilliant.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I lost my thing. Hold on. Okay, where was I? Hold on. Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Insert page numbers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm telling you, I did, I did. And now I don't remember what page I was on and I don't know where I put them. All right, so the day after she was kidnapped, the next day David leaves for work and Catherine goes to the door because someone comes to the door for a drug dealer, for a drug deal. And they. And they think. So Catherine forgets to chain Kate up. She just pushes her in the room and says, stay in this room. And they think that maybe in her mind was so fucked up from the last murder that she just wasn't thinking straight or wasn't on her game. And Kate realizes it's a fucking chance to escape. So she finds a window. She breaks the lock on it, Pushes out the window, jumps out of the window, hits her head on the concrete on the way down and starts fucking booking it down the street. Knocking on doors, no one's answering. She jumps a fence and a fucking dog attacks her in someone's yard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gets the fuck out. Keeps running. Sees a vacuum cleaner store with a man in a suit out front and runs to him. And she says, I was hysterical. I'm barefoot, wearing my black leggings, a black singlet and knickers. She says to help. I've been raped. Please take me inside and call the police. And she's afraid that Katherine's gonna come after her. So she says if a woman comes here and says, I had a fight with her and I'm her daughter, don't believe her. I've been raped.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so she's brought to the police station and she's handed off to our friend, Constable Laura Hancock, our 22 year old friend who's never taken 22, never taken a statement before and hand it off to her because they don't believe her. They tell her to write up. Write her up for making a false report. But Laura's hearing her story, hearing these crazy details, including how sh. Like the shine and the numbers on the fucking chains that she was locked up in. What color Robe David was wearing, what color robe she had to wear, all these details. And she keeps going up to outside, to her, like her captain and being like, I don't think she's lying. She's telling me this and this and this. And they're like, she's lying. Go back in, get more information. Finally, Kate says the couple had been using pseudonyms the whole time, but she had seen their names on the medicine bottle, and the name was David Bernie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then they believed her because he had a crazy fucking record.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So then they were like, oh, shit. So she. Police go to the house, and in they find the stuff Kate stashed, proving she was there, and the movie they made her watch when they had been smoking pot. It was in the vcr. It was fucking Rambo and the Dire Straits cassette in this area.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ew.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So all the details is there, and they find her hidden trinkets as well. So David and Catherine are arrested and interrogated, and just the detectives were about to give up on him. You know, it was gonna be a he said, she said bullshit thing. Detective Sergeant Vince Kadich says, look, it's getting dark. Just tell us we're. They're buried. And David says, okay. And he takes them to where the graves are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, like as a Holy Mary, he

[Georgia Hardstark]

says, that just how it's getting dark. Just tell us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And David agrees. Brilliant.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Later, when Catherine's asked, okay, let's see. All right, all right. So they are both sentenced to four terms of life imprisonment. They're required to serve 20 years before being eligible for priority parole. When asked why she had done it, Catherine said, because I wanted to see how strong I was within my inner self. I didn't feel a thing. It was like I expected. I was prepared to follow him to the end of the earth and do anything to see that his desires were satisfied. She was a female. Females hurt and destroy males. That's why she did it. Killed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, oh. Like, on behalf of males. She was killing females.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She didn't feel anything. Like, all females were fucked up. So after 19 years in prison, David Birney is found dead in his cell. On October 7, 2005. He hanged himself from an air vent using a length of cord.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you think he hanged himself?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I think he was really depressed. And he hanged himself? Yeah. And then he was 55 years old. After her fourth bid for parole was declined in 2016. Sorry, wait, Catherine's fourth bid for parole declined in 2016? Just last year. And our friend Badass Kate over here is. Has A campaign to end Western Australians laws that automatically put convicts up for parole every three years. Because she's not even asking for parole. They just keep putting her up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. That's just. It's like. It's like a computer's doing it, basically.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So there's speculation, of course, that the Bernie's were responsible for a couple other disappearances, including Sharon Renwick in May 1986 and Barbara Western in June 1986. And based on what the evidence they talk about in the documentary, I absolutely think that they were responsible for those two disappearances. And then there's also the disappearance of Lisa Mott in 1980. And it looks like that was David's doing for sure. I mean, there's just no way there was. So that's the. The Morehouse murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dude, I went dark.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was crazy. They're all horrible. But I mean, that was like. It's so funny. It makes so much sense now why so many people brought up the Bernie's to us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because it was a normal suburb and it was a normal couple that everyone thought was just, you know, and you look deep into it and there's so many fucked up points to it. There's so many crazy creepy details. And, you know, you can't judge a book by its cover.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so fucked up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you can't judge a book by the baby seat in the back seat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. It's just this thing of not understanding how you can't understand how one person would do it to begin with. Ted Bundy. I can't understand how anyone would do what he did. And then you see these two people and it's almost more manipulative and more sinister and it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's. Well, it like doubles everything because then it's just like, how did you get another individual to be as fucked up as you and to go into this with you and then what does that mean about your relationship? And. Yeah, it's all. It's all that. It's just so beyond. Beyond.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So we're not being in a live show, isn't it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so weird not being at a live show, isn't it? Where's our applause?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stephen, clap for us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How do we know when it ends, Steven?

[Karen Kilgariff]

How dare you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

If there's not applause, we don't know. We're just petting a cat. I don't know if this is over.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Now we're all bummed out and we are. Back, back. That's so funny that you wanted applause because we had been doing so many live shows. That's such a funny last thing. Making Stephen applaud for us. Cuz we. We're. Our egos are now too big.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Poor Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you have any updates on this horrible case?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just have one. Katherine's youngest son, using an alias, has made public statements about the difficulties of growing up in the shadow of his mother's heinous crimes. He's also said that he supports Catherine receiving the death penalty, as well as Kate Moyer's efforts to refor parole laws, which, you know, we support.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the idea that like, he feels forced and even with an alias, he feels forced to come out and say, yes, I agree, my mom should be killed, where it's like, that's horrible. It's not for him to say. And public pressure should never be like, you now speak and answer for your mother's hideous crimes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Because you happen to be the child of that person. But you know, good for him for saying something. It's just true. It could just true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I mean, like, is it even true? It's like, like it's. He's just having to do the thing where it's like, well, that's a complete loss. So now I have to not be shunned by society.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Family members and friends should never be put in that position, in my opinion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally expected to be advocates either way. Yeah. But definitely watch Hounds of love. It's a 2016 Australian movie that's like based on his this story kind of loosely, but there's a lot of factual stuff in it. And that movie has fucking stayed with me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, great. Well, now we're going to head back into the episode for a much needed segment. Good things of the week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now we have to do one positive thing. Oh yeah, that's right. What's yours? Okay, so mine is. I am so obsessed with it. It's our new. Like, everyone now needs to go watch it because that. We're all in a fucking low place because of that story. So now it's like the Bob's Burger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now go turn on. Go to Netflix and turn on Big Mouth. It's. It's Nick Kroll and John Mulaney's new cartoon. Coming of age, but dark and hilarious. It is so good. I want to cry. Vincent. I were watching it and we're just amazed the whole time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's great. Yeah, I definitely have that pause when people that I know and love and Admire have something come out. I have. I. I do like a three month pause on it and I just wait to hear what people say because I get nervous. I'm afraid if people's thing is bad, then if it is, or here it might be, then I just go. I just pretend it never existed and I don't have to have an opinion. One more thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I completely understand. I vetted it for you. It is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So sweet and so good and so wonderful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I believe it because Nick Kroll is truly one of the funniest people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nick Kroll is so funny. And then she's proved to me like he can't do anything. Fucking no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He just knows what he's doing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He is so good. This show is darling. It's darling while also being like weirdly dark and funny. It's just great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Watch it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I watched a movie on the flight home from Florida, which was kind of a beast. That was like a six hour flight that we took. So I was like, when I do that, I'm always like, okay, that means three movies. I can do three movies. I do it at fucking every day. I lay on the couch and watch. Watch nine movies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dogs bothering you the whole time too?

[Karen Kilgariff]

A little peace and quiet, maybe. Fun strangers that are gonna get into an argument.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Snacks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who knows? Yeah, snacks. You know, my new thing these days is, and I don't know why this is how insane I am when they come around and offer snacks on flights. I'm always like, no, thank you. I'll. I will eat the worst shit in the world.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I just don't want them to know that you're.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I. I just try to pretend like I'm some kind of an island like drink. No, thank you. I need nothing. I already bought water.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you want some pretzels?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I'm not reliant on your snacks and beverages.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I do not need you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I am self sufficient in my movies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So crazy. But that was a. That's not my thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. I want it to be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's not. My good point is my independence from plain snacks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's it. That makes me happy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I will say this not to do a commercial for JetBlue in any way. We neither here nor. Nor there about them. Except that weird thing they had where they had a little.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They trust you to get your own snacks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can walk up to where the bathroom is and across from the bathroom there is a refrigerator with every drink in it and then a like a weird cupboard with a ton of snacks in it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like you're an adult and you can fucking police yourself and you're not gonna jam a bunch of Cheez it

[Karen Kilgariff]

bags into your purse because everyone can see you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's brilliantly placed. So it's like when I went to get. I was like, oh, I wanna see what they have. But. But then I noticed that you would have to open the door to look and see what the snacks were.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I ate cookies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Were they good?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, no, they're fine. Is that what makes you happy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I brought a ginger ale. No, I brought it back to my seat. And then I watched this movie that my friend had told me was good. My friend Molly told me was good already. But it's the Jeremy Renner, Elizabeth Mary Kitt Olsen movie called Wind river. And it's about a murder that takes place on a Native American reservation. And it is so well done. And it is a female writer, director, and it should be getting way more press and way more attention. Yeah, I think it did really good at festivals. And that's how, like, it, like, popped in the first place. And why. It's like, on a JetBlue. Yeah, it's really interesting. Elizabeth Olsen is one of the greater actors of her generation. Did you ever see Martha, Marcy Mae Marlene, that movie? If you haven't seen that movie, you got it. It's about a girl that just left a cult.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I'm missing out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's great. That's from, like, probably four or five years ago, maybe, but this one, Wind river is this incredible. It's a murder mystery thing, but then really, it kind of unfolds into this thing. And at the end, it does one of those, like, true facts go up onto the screen. And Native American women go missing on reservations constantly. And there are no reports about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ever, Anywhere, ever. No one looks into it. No one makes. No one investigates it. And so whatever happens on this land, whoever's there, and whatever they do, young women go missing or women go missing and they just don't. No one does anything about it. And it's. It was very upsetting. Like, the story itself is good and very emotional. It's really well told and well written. But then that factoid at the end that's like, this is kind of why we made this movie is so upsetting. It's a thing we kind of know. We know in general. But to know that specifically about, like, indigenous people of America is insanely fucked up. And I just. I encourage everybody to kind of take it all in and. And go look into it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And. Cause that woman is really, really talented. Who put all that whole thing together.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then watch Big Mouth so you stop crying. Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, take that in, get the full weight once again of underrepresented people, the marginalized people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then big mouth. Big mouth at the end of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Watch Big Mouth for some.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just know that there's tons of, like in that. On that show. There's tons of stuff about him like, because it's basically him in puberty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So good. Fucking Maya Rudolph, her character. I can't. I can't give it away. It's a hormone monster. It's so fucking good. I want to cry. It's so good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I can't wait to watch it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everything about it is beautiful. Okay, we are back from our good things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're back. And before we pick a title, I just. I need a 2026 corrections corner because. And it's so funny. Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was so excited and proud of the female writer director of Wind River, Taylor Sheridan, who is such a man. He is entirely a man. My mistake. My apologies to both Taylor Sheridan and women. We can make Wind river and anything like it and more. And we have, and we will again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, you had a 50, 50 chance of getting that one. Well, I guess not. You had a. Who knows? Back in 2017, the percentage was 50, 50. Nowadays, it's a lot nowadays.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It. It would be wrong if I didn't know. And I think I learned it on the first time I happened by Yellowstone. And then I was like, wait a

[Georgia Hardstark]

second, I've been tricked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She tricked me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, so this episode was originally titled go get your thing, which we love, but if we were naming it today based on some fucking rando thing we said in the episode, I mean,

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would absolutely name it Monte Cristo as a private sandwich, which. Talking about what it's like to eat

[Georgia Hardstark]

Monte Cristos, I stand by that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, if you have to eat it with a fork and a knife, is it still a sandwich? That's. I think the new hot dog is a sandwich debate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. But I think that it totally disqualifies it as a sandwich because then what is remaining that keeps it a sandwich?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? Yeah. And if there's, like, an egg on it, if you couldn't pick it up without being a fucking disgusting human being, then is it a sandwich still?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then it's just the shape of a sandwich that has to be done, dealt with like flat food.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? It's like a casserole more than it is a sandwich.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know you don't want to, but I do think we need to start this food podcast pretty soon because this is com. This is compelling content. We are always good at talking about food.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't wait to do the rewind of the first episode of Is this a sandwich podcast?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That comes out of. Oh, my God. And Vincent. Vincent Jotaroza can sue us because they already had the sandwich podcast idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Okay. We could also call it I thought of your pig people people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah, about the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

About the orchard. Orchard, of course.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know you love pig people and I think of you often when they come up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, the horse won't start. That's pretty good. That's a good one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That would be funny if the horse wouldn't start.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that it? Did we do it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think we did it. I mean, it's that for our part, we're done. And now 2017 US has to wrap it up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. 37 year old Georgia has to talk now. Don't let her. Why does anyone let her do that? That it's just a mistake to let 37 year olds talk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's too bad because we have nine years of it, so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, good. Okay, great. Well, let's say goodbye from 2017. Thanks for listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thanks for listening, you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guys, thanks for being here with us once again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Once again. And we appreciate it. And you guys are the best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you for everything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And just from most to you, stay

[Georgia Hardstark]

sexy and don't get murdered by Elvis. Elvis, Wait. Dottie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Elvis, show her how.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Elvis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You want cookie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive. Into countless travel sites searching for the

[Georgia Hardstark]

Best deal With Cheap Caribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date all in one search.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to Budget beach bliss at your fingertips.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to cheapcaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress free vacation planning should be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye. Bye. Why Spring cleaning is all about getting your house in order.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the last step is making sure it's protected too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's where Simplisafe comes in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Simplisafe offers more than just a camera. It's a full system with sensors, cameras for inside and outside your home and 24,7 professional monitoring.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If there's a break in fire or flood, SimpliSafe's agents are ready to take action.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are no long term contracts, no lock ins and no hidden cancellation fees. Simplisafe earns your business by helping you keep your home protected, not by trapping you into a contract.

[Georgia Hardstark]

More than 5 million people trust SimpliSafe every day and US news and world Report named it the best home security system of 2026.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I really love the fact that they make it so clear that you will not be trapped into a contract because how many things do you order these days? And suddenly you realize they signed you up for a subscription or like you're paying fees you never even thought you were agreeing to. And like this is all right there upfront, totally clear.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. I love Simplisafe because I know that they won't trap you, but I know that the minute you sign up with them, you're going to want to stay with them forever. So it's kind of a win win.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone deserves that same peace of mind, which is why Simplisafe is offering an exclusive discount our listeners right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can get 50 off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com fave.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's half [e-mail] fav.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's no safe like simply safe. Goodbye.