Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 97: The Hague

Summary

My Favorite Murder – Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 97: The Hague

Released: May 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this “Rewind” episode, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark revisit their classic 2017 “The Hague” episode (#97), providing their signature true crime comedy recap along with new commentary, personal stories, and reflections on how their perspectives—and the world—have changed since the episode first aired. The focus spans infamous cases, the evolution of the podcast, reflections on problematic pop-culture, and humorous tangents from junk food to holiday anecdotes. The main true crime spotlights: the tragic case of Susie Jaeger and the birth of FBI profiling, plus the chaotic story of Hawaiian psychiatric hospital escapee Randall Saito.

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1. Opening Banter: Holidays, Family, and Nostalgia

[02:36 – 14:14]

• Thanksgiving Recaps:

  • The hosts recount Thanksgiving, sharing personal family dynamics, nostalgia, and humorous chaos associated with holiday gatherings.
  • Karen recounts a family tale about a relative who, as a teen in the '60s, once shook Charles Manson’s hand in jail before the murders were discovered.
    • “Somebody at our Thanksgiving dinner had just by chance met Charles Manson, like walking through a jail... and they didn’t know the Tate-LaBianca murders had just happened.” — Karen [07:32]

• Food Nostalgia:

  • Passionate reminiscing about Stouffer’s French bread pizza, frozen macaroni, and the celebratory excitement of eating “forbidden” junk foods at sleepovers.
    • “There is nothing more disorienting, so weird and amazing than someone walking up with a... someone has made material of our faces... knives and cats and like, all the things that we like.” — Karen [06:45]
    • The pair spiral into laughter describing childhood sleepover food mayhem and sentimental food associations.

• Light-hearted Commentary on Serial Killers and Fast Food:

  • Joking discussion about the recently arrested Seminole Heights serial killer and how working at McDonald's or Popeyes is not a meaningful clue, but a source of comedic speculation.
    • “If you tell me something once on social media, it is locked law in my head forever.” — Karen [11:54]

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2. Listener Gifts & Art, Book Club Fails, and Pop Culture Tangents

[14:15 – 29:19]

• Land O’Lakes Butter Tray Story:

  • Georgia gifts Karen a vintage Land O’Lakes tray, sparking discussion about collectibles, changing cultural norms (Native imagery on food products), and their comedic attempts at Instagram documentation.
    • “It’s a picture within the picture. Oh my God, we’re inceptioning Land O’Lake style!” — Georgia [18:03]
    • Laughter about aging, road trips, and decorative tray hoarding.

• Listener Art:

  • The hosts showcase gifts from fans (paintings and needlepoints), expressing heartfelt thanks and reflecting on the growing tapestry of podcast memorabilia.
    • “This podcast loft is not big enough for everything. We’re gonna have to buy a bigger house.” — Georgia [21:52]

• Book Club: "My Sweet Audrina" Debacle:

  • Admission that their plan for a podcast-wide book club failed due to the book’s problematic content and sheer repetition.
    • “The phrase ‘the first and best Audrina’... if you pulled that phrase out the book, the book would only be 112 pages.” — Karen [24:00]
    • Humorous nostalgia for reading V.C. Andrews as tweens, and how childhood reading shapes perceptions of love, violence, and adulthood.

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3. Reflecting on Changing Times & Cultural Blindspots

[33:01–34:38]

• Reflecting on the problematic Land O’Lakes imagery and school mascots, and how their awareness of cultural appropriation and harmful stereotypes has changed.
  • “We’re sitting here in 2017... not even knowing we’re talking about this problematic thing. And now I have all this vintage merch with Land O’Lakes on it.” — Georgia [33:13]
  • “The point of this show is... then we learn that that becomes the conversation. Then you’re like, oh, yeah, makes perfect sense.” — Karen [34:15]

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4. Main True Crime Story: The Case of Susie Jaeger & the Origins of FBI Profiling

Timestamps: [38:10 – 73:49]
Storyteller: Georgia

The Case Overview

• Disappearance at Waterhead State Park, MT (1973):

  • The Jaeger family camps during a cross-country trip; seven-year-old Susie is abducted from the family tent during the night. A slit in the tent and footprints away are discovered.
    • “One of the teens in the tent, Heidi, wakes up and notices her little sister Susie is not in the tent any longer... and there's a slash through the side of the tent.” — Georgia [39:14]

• Investigation & Profiling:

  • Massive search, no results. The newly forming FBI Behavioral Science Unit (the real-life “Mindhunter” team) consults, building one of the first criminal profiles in history.
    • "This is the first real case where they get to use their behavioral analysis. So this is the first case where this is used in real life." — Georgia [43:18]
  • Profiler observations: impulsivity, military background, likely local, probable trophy collection from victims.

• The Killer: David Meirhofer

  • Vietnam veteran, friendly and intelligent, passes polygraph and "truth serum;" police initially dismiss him as a suspect.
  • Profiler insight: A true sociopath could pass these tests—he dissociates completely from his crime.
    • “He was able to disassociate himself from the person who had killed someone... so he was like, it's not fucking me.” — Georgia [47:12]

• The Mother’s Forgiveness:

  • Susie’s mother, Marietta, channels her anger into forgiveness, making a commitment to pray for the perpetrator.
    • “I was called to forgive my enemies, not to kill them. So I made a commitment to work toward an attitude of forgiveness.” — Georgia paraphrasing Marietta [49:17]

• Breakthrough & Evidence:

  • A year after, the perpetrator calls the Jaeger family, trying to taunt and manipulate. Marietta’s compassion moves him to tears during a one-hour call, and this crucial evidence leads to his arrest.
    • “She spoke to him with compassion... and he burst into tears and starts weeping on the phone.” — Georgia [50:41]

• Confessions:

  • Discovery of remains and trophies at Meirhofer’s house, including another victim’s hand.
  • He confesses to multiple murders of local children and a young woman, as well as to keeping and burning his victims' remains.
    • “There’s packages that look like deli packages... labeled with the initials of who the pieces belong to.” — Georgia [53:24]

• Suicide and Aftermath:

  • Meirhofer commits suicide in jail post-confession, ending chances for further interviews.

• Legacy and Marietta’s Activism:

  • Marietta co-founds Journey of Hope: From Violence to Healing, advocates against the death penalty, and works with other victims’ families, including Meirhofer’s.
    • “I would not honor the good and sweetness and beauty of my little girl’s life by killing someone in their name...” — Karen quoting Marietta [69:00]
    • “Marietta reaches out to David Meirhofer’s mother, and they accompany each other to visit their children’s graves.” — Georgia [70:36]
  • Both hosts are visibly moved by Marietta’s compassion and strength.

• Notable Quote:

  • “That’s high level, high level human work right there. Marietta Jaeger. Fuck.” — Karen [72:00]

• Book Recommendation:

  • Ro Franchiel’s Shadow Man: An Elusive Psycho Killer and the Birth of FBI Profiling (2022) covers the case in depth. [75:28]

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5. Karen’s Story: The Escape of Randall Saito

Timestamps: [78:20 – 103:49]

Case Overview

• Recent Headline (2017):

  • 59-year-old Randall Saito, institutionalized in Hawaii since 1979 for murder and deemed a “violent, manipulative psychopath,” escapes from a state hospital.
    • “He is described by doctors as a violent, manipulative psychopath and a murderer.” — Karen [82:07]

• Murder & Commitment:

  • 1977: Saito shoots and fatally stabs Sarah Yamashiro in a parking lot, is found not guilty by reason of insanity, and committed to Hawaii State Hospital.

• The Escape:

  • Saito simply walks out, calls a cab (caught on video with a mysterious backpack), charters a plane to Maui, and another to California—evading detection for four days.
    • “He gets to the airport where he has already chartered a plane—cost him $1,500.” — Karen [85:40]

• System Failures & Potential Accomplices:

  • Delayed notification to authorities, possible help from hospital staff or outside accomplices, and the discovery that his relationships (including romantic) with hospital staff had previously led to new policy changes.
    • “He has had six significant relationships [in hospital]; three have been with staff members.” — Karen [95:08]

• Arrest & Fallout:

  • Saito is apprehended in Stockton, CA, after a cab driver recognizes him from an APB. The hospital faces extensive investigation and employee suspensions.

• Judicial Controversy:

  • The judge who committed Saito had a pattern of controversial rulings favoring acquittals for violent criminals.

• Ongoing Mystery:

  • The details of Saito’s original crime and sexual sadism remain murky, and the hospital’s updated security measures are discussed.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “He said he escaped to prove that he could exist in the community without harming anyone.” — Karen [104:25]
  • “There’s way more going on.” — Karen [102:46]

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6. Podcast Evolution & Meta Reflections

Timestamps: [104:34 – 107:32]

• Karen and Georgia reflect on how the stories they cover demand more in-depth research as they progress, and how their own agency as podcasters—and as women with an audience—has grown.

  • “It was like we could be directional about what we wanted to be talking about and why.” — Karen [105:19]

• Karen jokes about the podcast being like riding a “canoe,” symbolizing the unpredictability and unsteady ride of true crime podcasting.

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7. Notable Quotes & Comic Relief

Sprinkled Throughout

• “We just realized we’re hungry. And maybe that’s the problem.” — Georgia [14:08]
• “I want to dig through [the snack cart] like a large raccoon. I want all of them.” — Karen [87:58]
• “If you tell me something on social media, it is locked law in my head forever.” — Karen [11:54]
• “Don’t do what we do, monsters.” — Karen [112:40]
• Regarding the Goonies influence:
  • “Goonies raised the bar where it’s like, I don’t just want chicken feed bills. I want a large ship filled with gold doubloons.” — Karen [58:19]

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8. Closing Thoughts

Timestamps: [112:03 – end]

• The hosts recap the wild ride of the episode, the importance of distractions, and pay tribute to Marietta Jaeger as a symbol of healing, forgiveness, and hope.

• “All hail Marietta Jaeger. And fucking live your life. Try to do it Marietta style.” — Georgia [112:29]

• Ends with their iconic sign-off:
  “Stay sexy and don’t get murdered.” — [112:49]

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Key Timestamps

• [02:36] – Show proper starts: Rewind intro
• [07:31] – Charles Manson holiday story
• [13:07] – McDonalds/Popeyes Serial Killer banter
• [18:03] – Land O’Lakes inception-joke
• [24:00] – "My Sweet Audrina" book club tangent
• [33:13] – Land O’Lakes problematic branding reflection
• [39:14] – Susie Jaeger kidnapping case begins
• [49:17] – Marietta’s journey toward forgiveness
• [53:24] – Evidence discovered in Meirhofer’s home
• [69:00] – Marietta’s quote about not supporting the death penalty
• [75:28] – Book recommendation: Shadow Man
• [78:20] – Randall Saito escape story begins
• [87:58] – JetBlue snack cart raccoon bit
• [104:25] – Saito’s post-capture statement
• [112:29] – Tribute to Marietta Jaeger and episode’s closing note

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Episode Tone

The episode combines frank, sometimes dark, humor with sincere empathy for victims and their families. Karen and Georgia’s conversational, unfiltered storytelling brings comic relief to disturbing stories, creating a unique blend of informative and entertaining true crime podcasting.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode blends classic MFM: unsparing humor, can’t-help-themselves tangents (from junk food to vintage trays), and deep dives into chilling yet historically significant true crime. The central crime—Susie Jaeger’s 1973 kidnapping—serves as a lens for the birth of FBI profiling, but what stands out is the resilience and radical forgiveness of Susie’s mother, Marietta, whose advocacy redefines survival and grace. The latter half unpacks the wild and recent story of Randall Saito, a murderer’s decades-in-the-making escape due to systemic failures. Listeners will find the perfect mix of irreverence, insight, and humanity in this Rewind episode.

Transcript

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[A]

Goodbye,

[C]

My savior.

[B]

Hello, hello, hello. And welco to rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[A]

This is the show where we recap our early episodes with new case info and lots of old feelings.

[B]

Today we're rewinding to episode 97, which we named the Hague.

[A]

I think this is my favorite title of all time. It's so epic.

[B]

We're the Hague. I love it.

[A]

The Hag came out on November 30, 2017.

[B]

Okay, let's listen to the intro of episode 97.

[A]

Welcome. Welcome to my favorite murder.

[B]

To my. Why am I just repeating what you say?

[A]

It's fun. It's like a call and response.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, this is a real thing.

[A]

Me and I was making Nora, my niece Nora, she's 10, do cheers with me.

[B]

Oh, my God. I love. I love babies who cheers. There's nothing better.

[A]

She. We have video. She used to do it when she was like 4 years old, but now she doesn't care. Now she's like, into sports and stuff. But I was making sure, like, in my dad's living room while he watched football and ignored us. I made her stand up and do cheers from high school. And it was making me laugh so hard. Oh, my God. It was like. We had a good. We had a nice Thanksgiving. How was yours?

[B]

It was great. We went with some friends to. Because my mom and I aren't speaking, which is great. So I was able to just go to a fucking old school steakhouse with Vince and our friends.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And have a nice time where I didn't have anxiety attacks and go to the bathroom and need to breathe and take Xanax and drink a lot. I mean, I still drank a lot.

[A]

Well, that's. But it was your choice, right? You didn't feel like you were trying to escape?

[B]

No, I was feeling. I was trying to be like, part of it.

[A]

Yes. That's good.

[B]

How was yours?

[A]

It was great. We. I think I may have told you this, but we basically revolted on my dad. And we're like. Cause normally we drive down into the Bay Area, we go to Daly City or we go to Pacifica or some. It's somewhere on the peninsula or whatever. We always go to our families and they. All of them are in San Francisco or south. And this year my sister's like, I'm so tired. I'm so. I like, can barely move. And I was like, we don't have to go. Like, Aunt Jo. Our family Isn't gonna be like, how dare you? They're not. They're not like that.

[B]

Yeah, my mom is.

[A]

Yeah, right. I mean, it can be pressure. My dad is. So we had to, like, since when

[B]

did you give a shit about Thanksgiving? There's no religion attached to it. It's just fucking feeding the shit out of yourself.

[A]

But it's like family. It's a family time. And yeah, we had to. My sister's the one. I. I'm saying we, but she's the one that did all the putting the foot down. But then we went to Adrienne's with her family and it was super fun.

[B]

Chill and fun. I love when sports are on. It's loud, and I love when fucking food is everywhere. Is there a baked brie? I hope so.

[A]

Sure was.

[B]

Nuh.

[A]

Oh, yeah, there were samosas because Adrian's mother in law is from Sri Lanka.

[B]

Oh, my God, I fucking love that so much.

[A]

I hung out with her a lot. Pushpa, she's one of my favorite people. She's the one that. When Nora. When Nora was five, she asked Nora what she wanted to be when she grew up. Nora said, I want to be a cheerleader. And Pushpa said, don't be a cheerleader. Be a doctor. And Nora does that impression and says it all the time. A lot of badass women, neck of the woods. Don't be a cheerleader.

[B]

Well, I'm looking forward to. To. I'll be in Vegas for a far away train. We're going to Vegas for Christmas.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Which I'm excited about. And. And. And it. The rest of the month. It.

[A]

You get holidays. Should be a holiday. Yeah, they really should.

[B]

Yeah, we want to. Vince and I are talking about how we can show up at the family Hanukkah party. Like, ridiculously so. Like, one thing is that we get a Hummer limo for just the two of us and have it wait outside the whole night. Yes. And then I walk in wearing that dress that has yours in my face all over it.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Where's that from again?

[A]

Oh, like, who made it?

[B]

No, but it's like someone made it and it's a website. You can get it. And a couple girls have worn it to the meet and greet.

[A]

There is nothing more disorienting, so weird and amazing than somebody walking up with a. Because it's not like pictures or whatever. No, it's like one step further where someone has made material of our faces. And then knives and cats and like, all the things that we like. Knives and cats.

[B]

It's so bananas. So I want to wear that to the Hanukkah party.

[A]

Good idea. And then that you're just going to burn all the bridges at one time with one fell swoop?

[B]

Yep. One swell foup.

[A]

A fell swoop. A swell foup. Well, I was going to tell you at Thanksgiving because now everybody knows my once secret passion that's now a very public passion of loving true crime. There was someone that had a Charles Manson story and he died.

[B]

We don't care. The end.

[A]

Yes. But somebody at our Thanksgiving dinner, when he was just by chance met Charles Manson, like walking through a jail, knew someone that was in a holding cell. He was like a teenager and they'd been messing around and whatever, and he like shook Charles Manson's hand. And it was when the cops had arrested him for like, stealing car parts, but they didn't know that the Tate LaBianca murders had just happened.

[B]

Wait, so they. Why did he shake his hand then?

[A]

Cause it was just the guy he was talking to in the cell was like, hey, why are you here? Why are you here? It was one of those things. And then they're like, laughing. It was. Both of them were just like, oh, it's this dumb misdemeanor, like, no big deal. And then. But the guy in the cell goes, oh, this is Charlie. And then the guy at our dinner, like, shook his hand. It was like, oh, hey, how's it going?

[B]

That is fucking bananas. And I bet not a lot of people have a story like that.

[A]

It was awesome. And also the guy that told the story is a really good storyteller. Real casual, very petaluma.

[B]

Yeah, like lets just little bits out here and there.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Draws you in and all this.

[A]

But also very like, he's very much himself. So it was like you could see him doing it. He was, I think, at the time.

[B]

And it wasn't like a story he told all the time. And he was like bragging about it. It was like, oh, yeah.

[A]

In fact, I'm. I wonder if I'm allowed to even be telling this, now that I think about it.

[B]

Leave his name out and then we'll move on. Leave his name in relation out.

[A]

Steven. Cut that.

[B]

Don't cut it.

[A]

Just Stephen BLEEP that.

[B]

BLEEP it.

[A]

It's a new one.

[B]

Stephen BLEEP that. Yes, I want to talk to you about.

[A]

Well, so they cause this a confrontation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to talk to you about your problem.

[B]

I've been wanting to talk to you.

[A]

No more macaroni and cheese.

[B]

No, please order the macaroni and cheese balls that they do now.

[A]

Like a deep fried macaroni and cheese.

[B]

Do you know what I ate the night.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Was it the night of Thanksgiving? Oh, my God. After we went to fucking. This crazy steakhouse, ate this crazy meal, we went and drank the rest of the night, you know, you, like, eat at 4 o' clock Thanksgiving? Yeah. So by the time we get home at, like 11 or whatever, Vince and I are hungry again and drunk.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so we made a Stouffer's French bread pizza.

[A]

Hell, yes.

[B]

And frozen Mac and cheese.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The night of Thanksgiving, Stouffer's. No, it might have been like Trader Joe's or something, but still. Yeah.

[A]

Some nice oven Mac and cheese. Yeah.

[B]

I'm not here to talk about Stouffer's. I'm here to just talk about their French fried pizza, which is my fucking favorite thing ever.

[A]

Yes. That's an American classic. That is totally unsung. People like to talk about, I don't know, apple pie and Chevrolets.

[B]

Yeah. Or like, fancy pizza.

[A]

Fucking a pizza that someone was like, look, old bread. We're gonna put tomato sauce and cheese

[B]

on it and like, weird little triangles of the saltiest, best pepperoni you've ever had. That's like, don't come at me with the fucking supreme. Don't come at me with the fucking cheese. I want those fucking tiny triangles of pepperoni.

[A]

That brings. It's immediately bringing me back to, like, spending the night at someone else's house where I'm like, my parents would never let us eat this for a dinner.

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

Suddenly you're at a parent's house where they're like, coke out of a can at the table, and a Stouffer's French bread pizza. What the fuck?

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

It's mayhem.

[B]

That's so true.

[A]

It's so exciting. It's like a total celebration.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or it also is like, you're eight, you've been left home alone. You've been given directions. Turn the stove on, then turn the stove off. Don't burn down the house. We'll be back at 11.

[B]

My. Yeah, 11. They need to party harder than that.

[A]

Well, that's what they'd say, but you'd be asleep by the time they came back at 2, right?

[B]

Exactly. They're like, we came home at 11 and we were totally sober. Okay, so then speaking of serial killers, they. Which Manson wasn't. He was just a. He was just a fucking bastard.

[A]

He was like a drug dealer piece of shit.

[B]

The Florida. The Tampa Seminole Heights serial killer. They think they caught him.

[A]

Oh, right.

[B]

Yes, yes. Are they 100% that it's him? It's pretty certain.

[A]

I'm 100% that it's him.

[B]

I am, too. So that must be right.

[A]

Because if you tell me something once on social media, it is locked law in my head forever.

[B]

Karen doesn't want to hear more than 140 fucking characters about it.

[A]

Actually, 10 is fine.

[B]

10's fine.

[A]

Just be like, they caught him.

[B]

Great. And they don't even have to say who it is she'll believe.

[A]

No, but I'm not interested in his business. That's none of my business what his name is. Not interested.

[B]

Well, I'm looking forward to seeing how that unfolds. If he worked in a fucking Popeyes at any point, the fact that he did work at McDonald's gives me hope.

[A]

Hold on, though. Did he work at McDonald's or was he arrested at McDonald's?

[B]

Both. He had worked at McDonald's before, and he was arrested at the McDonald's.

[A]

But we. We don't know about Popeyes. That's just from our email.

[B]

So we had an email a couple episodes back where this girl, these girls were like, we got an Uber car. An Uber car. And the driver was like, I think I drove the serial killer. He had worked at Popeyes, right? So the fact that he had worked at one fast food place makes me think that he had maybe had a job at another fast food place at some point in his life.

[A]

Also, if he really was a serial killer, he could have worked at McDonald's, but that was his cover. Like, he thought, oh, I'll lie and say, work at Popeyes and they'll never catch me.

[B]

Or maybe because if. If the McDonald's. If I'm remembering correctly that he wasn't a McDonald's employee anymore, he had another job. And maybe it was like, currently at a Popeyes employee.

[A]

That's right. Because if he has the experience of dropping those fries for three minutes, pulling them back out, salting them as. And I would encourage you to salt them thoroughly, because what's more heartbreaking than fresh McDonald's french fries that are all, you're all ready, and you're like, oh, I shouldn't be doing this. I'm doing it. And then you stick one in your mouth and there's no salt or very little salt.

[B]

I don't think that's ever happened to me at McDonald's. It hasn't? No.

[A]

It's happened to me a couple times.

[B]

I Have good French by luck.

[A]

Fuck. I have the worst. Because also I'm like, I shouldn't be doing this. I shouldn't be doing this.

[B]

Right? And you're like, well, now I have to fucking double down and put the sauce on myself.

[A]

Yeah. Or you get like, older ones just, like, they've been around.

[B]

No.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Listen, this is the episode called let's Talk About Junk Food.

[A]

This is the episode called sure, you want to hear about serial killers, but we want to talk about how French fries break down.

[B]

And we just realized that we're hungry. And maybe that's the problem. I've had a bowl of Raisin Bran for dinner tonight.

[A]

O, that's good.

[B]

And a half a vodka soda.

[A]

Oh, you've got your fiber.

[B]

Mommy is full.

[A]

You've got your fruit. Did you put a little lime in there?

[B]

Good fucking citrus.

[A]

No scurvy for you, gal.

[B]

Okay, here's the fun part. Speaking of Tampa, we put the Florida episode up last Orlando episode up last week, right? Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because we were like, we're Thanksgiving. Goodbye.

[A]

Yes, exactly. We're out of town. And I would just like to say I am fresh off the high five. The highway five. Driving for fucking six hours to get back down here. Straight to the record, straight to George's house.

[B]

Love it. Thank you.

[A]

No, no sacrifice.

[B]

I know that's not what I'm not

[A]

more of an excuse for my performance.

[B]

Okay, so in the episode of Orlando, I did Eileen Wuornos.

[A]

Yes, you did.

[B]

And at one point we mentioned Land O Lakes, Florida.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

At which point you. We kind of both admitted that we lost our. Because it's like, wait, that's really a place. That was just a butter. We thought it was just a. It's not a condiment. What is it?

[A]

It's a dairy product.

[B]

Dairy product. We both lost our.

[A]

We got starstruck about butter.

[B]

Yeah. Two things. One, it turns out. I just want to go ahead and say it turns out it's actually made in Minnesota.

[A]

Right. But there's more than one Lambda Lake.

[B]

Right. But there is a Land O Lakes. Okay. The other thing is, I was doing my normal Etsy late night scrolling and this. This thing randomly popped out that was like, etsy thinks she might like this. And I was like, well, I'm gonna buy that for Karen immediately and give it to you a month before Christmas, because I can't fucking wait that long. No chill whatsoever. Are you ready for this?

[A]

A stick of butter from Etsy.

[B]

I'm actually pulling it from behind the couch cushions right now. So if it was a stick of butter from Etsy. Oh, this butter smells. It's vintage. Okay, ready?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Georgia. It's a fucking vintage, like, serving tray with the whole Land o' Lakes theme seemingly take a photo and post it on with Karen's face.

[A]

My God. No, don't include my face. Your hair. Your hair looks amazing. Hair up. I'm gonna go like this. Hair up. I've just invented the new selfie for ladies over 45.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who've been driving for eight hours.

[B]

There it is. We'll put it on Instagram this time. We promise. We always say we will, but isn't that amazing?

[A]

Okay, can I just tell you, first of all, this is gorgeous. It's a gorgeous tray. Like, very solid. It doesn't look. I mean, it's clearly vintage, but it's perfect quality.

[B]

Yeah. And then why am I telling you how much? How cheap it was?

[A]

$1. No, but it's a beautiful picture.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I want to hang this on the wall. Like a picture.

[B]

I know.

[A]

But then on top of it, this. Every time we go to an antique store when we're on the road, these. You pick these up.

[B]

I do.

[A]

Every time you pick up a decorative tray.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

A decorative tin triangle. Oh, I could put. I could fit it. No, I have room. And then, like, you argue with yourself and with fence. Yeah. Isn't this perfect? And then he's like, what? Where? What for? And then you put it back down. But this is your favorite.

[B]

I guess that's my thing.

[A]

And you got me your favorite thing.

[B]

Cause I thought it was so funny.

[A]

I fucking love it.

[B]

All right, I'm taking it back.

[A]

No, also taking it back. Also. Thank you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I love that this is, like, the girl.

[B]

The.

[A]

It's not supposed to be Pocahontas herself, is it?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It's just her. A representative young. Yeah.

[B]

It's like a Native American.

[A]

She's holding her own package of Land O' lay's Butter.

[B]

So it's the same image on it?

[A]

Yes. It's the picture within the picture.

[B]

Oh, my God. I'm freaking out. It's the fucking. What's it called? What was that great movie? Not the Matrix. Inception. Inception.

[A]

Thank you, Steven. Inception. We're inceptioning Land O' Lake style. I would love. We should do a Heavy drug.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then just go in.

[B]

No, no, you don't have to go on.

[A]

Okay. And then stare until we're in the picture. This is so good. Thank you so much. I'm genuinely excited.

[B]

And then if I can continue to fucking hold the floor, please. Can I mention. So we're in the pod loft again

[A]

for the hold up floor? Are you. What's that called when they do that in the Republican Senate?

[B]

When they.

[A]

Oh, like when you pee out in front of everybody. What's it called?

[B]

Bad mash? Filibuster.

[A]

Yes,

[B]

yes, I'm filibustering. Because we're back in the potluck after like months. Because over Thanksgiving break my one of like Vince, we have to do is we have to clean up the pod loft.

[A]

It's great.

[B]

And so in one of the boxes we found this painting by this girl. Okay, this painting. I wanna talk about it. I have to redo this thing. So it's a painting of. It's like a charcoal drawing of Elvis, my cat. It's a little wonky and weird, but at the same time it's kind of like artistic and gorgeous.

[A]

It's gorgeous.

[B]

And I was, wait, did that get

[A]

sent in the mail?

[B]

Yeah, and I had like, it was a big package so I just thrown it upstairs like I don't know how long ago? A while ago. Yes. And Vince was like, what's this? I don't know. We opened it, I was like, oh shit. So then she read me the card and it says to all of us, blah blah blah, thank you for the Minneapolis show. She was there with her two favorite murderinos, Hannah and Ashley, all excited, blah blah blah. And then it says, I wanted to give you this red watercolor of Elvis. I have no artistic talent at all. My husband, on the other hand, got drunk as fuck in our backyard one night and I woke up to this masterpiece.

[A]

No. Are you serious? Yeah.

[B]

There was no question. It had to be yours. I tried to get him to do one of Frank and George, but I think Elvis was his cross eyed muse. Thanks again. Ssdgm. Carrie, that's amazing. Isn't that great?

[A]

It's really great.

[B]

I know.

[A]

It has a kind of

[B]

Monet.

[A]

This could be Monet. It could be Manet. Mog Delaney. You know that one with the lady with the blue eyes that has the crazy long face Look.

[B]

We'll fucking post this one as well. Shit. Look at us posting shit. Oh no, this is good.

[A]

I love it. Also, you know what? I don't think I ever thanked. Remember the woman who gave me that amazing painting in it may have also been in Minneapolis. There's a lady and I believe her name is Clarissa. I've had the thank you note on my desk and I hung that picture. It's hanging in my.

[B]

Which one is the amazing one? Right.

[A]

It's the one that's. It's basically a horizon. It's green, rolling hills and then a blue sky, but it's that progressive.

[B]

I have to tell you how jealous I was when I saw that. And she liked. Because it's so beautiful.

[A]

It's so beautiful. And it's. The frame is beautiful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's a very lovely thing. And she basically. The note was like, basically. It sounds like you're getting tired of murder. So I. I painted this for you so you can just look at something else.

[B]

It's so nice.

[A]

It's so lovely. And I don't think I ever thanked her. And I hoped fucking God. Her name was Clarissa, but I'm almost positive because I have the thank you note on my desk. But anyway, thank you, Clarissa. Asterix. I'll fix it next week if your name is not Clarissa. But also, I love it so much. I mean, I told her stunning. We had a whole conversation face to face.

[B]

But, yeah, it was gorgeous.

[A]

It was really cool. We love art. Hey, listen, art.

[B]

Art is our fucking thing.

[A]

We're into it.

[B]

This podcast loft is not big enough for everything. We're gonna have to buy a fucking bigger house.

[A]

It's so cool, you guys. You wouldn't believe how many needlepoint ga fuck yourselves are up on these walls.

[B]

Well, those two bins are full of art that I need to go. We need to go through and hang. So it's gonna. I'm take a photo once we're done with that. And then on the other side of the wall, there's just wrestling memorabilia from Vince.

[A]

It's the perfect combination, boys and girls.

[B]

How's it go? What else do you have?

[A]

Oh, I don't know if we're not probably gonna do it on this episode. I can't remember if we said we're gonna do it separately, but my sweet Audrina is our book club.

[B]

We fucked that up.

[A]

Cause Jesus fucking Christ, there's no way anyone. I'm sure people. There's definitely people who could have finished that book in, like, a day or two. I'm certainly not one of those people.

[B]

Well, I got mine late. I'm not gonna fucking name the girl on Etsy who sent it out very fucking late and very fucking slowly. I read a couple pages, and I was like, well, this is kind, right? And then I accidentally spoiled it and read what happens, and I'm like, oh, I don't want to read this.

[A]

Well, yeah, I forgot about the Fact that it is an incredibly problematic and triggering book for many people. And it is from a time in the 80s where everybody pretended things like that didn't happen in real life so you could read a book about it and.

[B]

Oh, my God, like, shocked and odd.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Can we quickly switch to Flowers in the Attic?

[A]

No, because. Because it's the exact same thing. There's no difference.

[B]

Well, they're. They're choosing to bone. There's like a.

[A]

No, they've been locked in an attic for years. Yes, they have no choice.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

But. But yes, you're right. It's not. It's not sexual fucking assault. That's been strangely romantic. Nine year old. It's. Well, spoiler alert.

[B]

Oh, shit. But no, that comes out in the first beginning.

[A]

But here's the thing. I think it would be fun still to read a dumb book and talk about it, because I have gone through so many emotions of trying to read that book. The phrase the first and best. Audrina. Right?

[B]

That's creepiest part.

[A]

If you pulled that phrase out of the book, the book would only be 112 pages long. It is repeated so many times.

[B]

Oh, and that fucking cousin of hers who were like, obviously it's not her cousin. Like, we could fix, like, I mean, like, shit that you know now and you didn't know when you were 12. I've just really, really been enjoying the photos people are posting of their copy. Cause no one has a new copy. It's the best. And, like, people are taking photos with their cats and they're this and they're that. And then the like comments of, like, I can't. You know, the, like, how the fuck did I read this at 11 years old?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What the fuck? Yes, this is why I'm this way. Yes, it's been really amusing.

[A]

It's hilarious.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Also, there is an aspect to it that I think is almost introduct. If you want to be a writer and you're 9 or 11 or whatever. Hopefully not 9. Hopefully you're 12. You're in a weird junior high area. And you find that book on your mom's shelf.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And you start reading that book, you're like, this is dramatic writing at its finest.

[B]

It's one of those things too, where it's like when you found the map of where Dahmer hid the bodies.

[A]

Gacy.

[B]

Gacy. You say to yourself, oh, I've been lied to by a Dahmer. And there is this life that I didn't understand. And then you can't stop obsessing about it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's like what those books are for 12 year old, 11 year old girls.

[A]

Because up until you read a VC Andrews book, you are sold the bill of goods that boys, if you just figure out the right thing to say or wear or wait to be or prettiness and love is love and sex is good, they will love you.

[B]

And the end.

[A]

Yeah, this is like. There's also intense, horrible violence on women. And then you're like, sorry, wait, what? Like I'm barely getting the romance part and now we're gonna do something.

[B]

It's also like this sad thing of like, you marry who? Like the mother marries this dude and she's unhappy and it's like, oh, you can do that. Okay, then I'll never get married until I'm 36.

[A]

It seems as a kid reading it, you're like, these are all solvable problems. Like, why don't you just break up?

[B]

Yeah, talk about it, Sarah, instead of Adrina. Your second one.

[A]

Also, I will say this, I will admit this. And some people did this and they said they were cheating. I don't think it's cheating though, because that book, here's the fun of it. I had it at my sister's house. So every night we'd all go to bed.

[B]

Nora. Did you read it to Nora? No.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Every night we'd go to bed and I'd read Nora to sleep. How incredible would that be?

[A]

Literally, Lydia, Literally. Nora just started the Laura Ingalls Wilder series. That's how nowhere near this she is. But I would go home and then I'd go, oh, yeah, I have that dumb book to read. And then I would get kind of excited.

[B]

But yeah, me too.

[A]

I got a hardback copy with a big plastic cover that I was using as the bookmark that every night I would fall asleep while I was reading it because it's the same, roughly the same 11 sentences over and over again for 200 pages. So it would literally drop out of my hand and I would be asleep with the light on and I would wake up at three in the morning like, what the fuck?

[B]

I love it.

[A]

And I would lose my place every night. So I have reread the first 50 pages. Like it's like one step forward, two steps back every night. So that's.

[B]

Yeah, that's a problem.

[A]

There's a lot in there. But. So on the. What, drive down? I bought the audiobook so I could like fill it in a lot more.

[B]

You're brilliant.

[A]

And I Have to say the audiobook is incredibly enjoyable. The woman reading it is doing a great job of being all these crazy people.

[B]

I never read books, but this time I was like. Like, I am obligated to buy a vintage copy and read this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That didn't sound right. I never have time to read books.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't know how to read.

[A]

I hate books.

[B]

I hate words. Okay, audiobook, everyone. I mean, sorry. You know what? You have that in your fucking bookcase now and everyone's gonna admire it in your bookcase. Doesn't matter.

[A]

Well, and also, I think there's probably people who love it and are sitting there going, are you guys fucking crazy? This book was awesome. There's just so many ways to take this book.

[B]

Have a book club. I want to argue with those people right now.

[A]

But also, I had that thing. That's right. This is why you drink wine and sit in a circle. But because it shouldn't be a One Direction. This should be. Wait, let's pause and let them say what they think about the book.

[B]

Go. Nope. I'm sorry, I need to stop you right there.

[A]

You're totally wrong.

[B]

I apologize. But I know I'm interrupting you.

[A]

Does anyone need anything?

[B]

Does anyone need crackers?

[A]

Crackers?

[B]

Gluten free crackers.

[A]

Oh, my God. Thank you so much for making that appetizer.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Fill in your name here.

[B]

Blake Debris. Everyone loves a Blake Debris.

[A]

I love Blake Lively's Brie. She makes the best kind.

[B]

Oh, my God, she needs to get on that. You're welcome. I wanna say really quickly, we have one last set of shows.

[A]

Sorry, I'm gonna sidebar this. I just wanna say I'm gonna keep on reading My sweet Audrina.

[B]

I'm sorry. Yeah.

[A]

And I'm gonna keep on talking about my sweet Audrina.

[B]

I'm there with you.

[A]

Okay, great. Awesome. New podcast and also listening.

[B]

Listen to a new podcast. My Sweet. My favorite sweet Audrina.

[A]

The best and first Audrina.

[B]

My favorite VC Andrews. The best and sweet. My first VC Andrews favorite with Lando Lakes. You just put your hands in the tray.

[A]

The tray was hands me and I decided I needed to put the tray

[B]

on my lap posing with it. It's pretty great. It's so good. Oh, you are. She's posing like Belinda Lakes, Native American woman.

[A]

Now it's three now holding it. And now I'm holding.

[B]

Well, if you look really closely in the package, there's probably a picture of her.

[A]

There is. It's on this tray. There's four Native American Women holding this thing.

[B]

Okay, bye. Good.

[A]

I think that's it.

[B]

Great, right? Yeah.

[A]

That was two weeks worth of.

[B]

Yeah. We caught everyone up. Yeah. Who goes first this week? Based on our new algorithm of who should go first this week, in my

[A]

opinion, yours is going to be better

[B]

purely because I slept today.

[A]

Yeah, you slept today. You didn't do six hours of driving and you didn't write it quickly. Mine is more of a. Yeah, I think you should go first.

[B]

Plus, all I've seen you eat in the past three hours that you've been here is peach gummies from the gas station.

[A]

From the gas station.

[B]

I don't know how you're surviving off of that. I had at least some raisin. Nice. Raisin Bran.

[A]

You had a nice bowl of Raisin Bran? I had a hamburger on the highway.

[B]

What kind of Burger King?

[A]

Okay, here's the thing that's a little worrisome to me. I mean, we all know Russia's invading this country.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So that's worrisome overall.

[B]

Yes. Like, we're not. We're not trying to belittle any of the problems. One little thing in Karen's mind is.

[A]

Is that we. This is a Red dawn, very slow, quiet, red dawn situation that we're in right now.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But. But on top of that, driving down the five, I have every exit memorized because I've been doing it for over 20 years.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

Yeah, so. So it's like. I know. I'm like, do I want. Do I feel like a Foster's Freeze situation? Or am I knowing the burger is coming up? Yes. Do I need to go clean and light and not get depressed, or do I not give a fuck? And is this my time to shine? Yeah, whatever. Exit after exit, everything is closed, abandoned. The Foster Freeze is abandoned. No. Yeah. That's creepy. There's hotels that are abandoned.

[B]

I haven't taken that drive in a long time.

[A]

It's fucking. And also a shit ton of the trees. Those almond farmers. A lot of those farmers.

[B]

The trees are abandoned.

[A]

They had to stop because the water got cut off because of the drought. So there's entire, like, groves of trees that are dead and pushed over. And then the Foster's Freeze has fucking graffiti on it.

[B]

End of days.

[A]

It's nutsocking.

[B]

End of days, people.

[A]

Guys, we can't. All the money's at the top. It needs to come back down.

[B]

It's literally nutso.

[A]

Big time.

[B]

We're talking about almond trees.

[A]

Nutso. We gotta rise up. All right, go ahead.

[B]

And we are back.

[A]

That really was the Hague. I mean, the amount of topics that were included, the diversity of subjects, and

[B]

people all over the place at 97 is when we're hitting our stride. I think in the podcast, we're really

[A]

digging in deep to Thanksgiving.

[B]

Thanksgiving and fucking Land O Lakes. And. Oh, this was the My Sweet Adrena era, where we just. The first time we didn't follow through with a book club, or the second time, I can't remember.

[A]

This was the original, I think.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

This was the first where we suddenly realized, what does it mean to have a book club on a weekly podcast?

[B]

Well, there's two people. I think that's the main thing. It's like a club. Multiple people with multiple opinions, and we didn't want anyone else's opinion or we couldn't get it.

[A]

I feel guilty, like, having such a strong opinion, but it really was kind of like, oh, that's why you don't, like, reread these books.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It was hard to get through, you

[B]

know, it was hard, too. Is Land O Lakes. Because I was immediately like, wait, that's a problemat that's problematic because they didn't change their packaging until 2020 to remove the Native American buttermade.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So, like, we. We're sitting here in 2017. We're, like, not even knowing that we're talking about this problematic thing. And now I have all this vintage merch with Land O' Lakes on it.

[A]

I mean, burn it and prove you care. Burn it all.

[B]

All right.

[A]

But here's the thing. That's the. It is like the kind of logo kind of thing that you do as a white person take for. Because you're like, oh, this is the picture of. Of this butter, where it's like, it's not necessary. It's not. There's nothing about it that is selling you butter.

[B]

It's just discriminatory and it's. Yeah.

[A]

Exploitation.

[B]

Yeah. All the things.

[A]

A little bit sexist.

[B]

I went to a high school that they're like, mascot was. We were the Woodbridge warriors, and don't you fucking know it. That was. There were some heavy Native Americans and cultural appropriation and horrible stuff going on. I will say that I never had school spirit, so I don't think that I'm responsible for that. I hate it going there.

[A]

So proof you're a punk.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It's all 2020 vision now, but we sure did grow up knee deep in it. It's pretty crazy, but that's the kind of point of this show is then we learn that that becomes the conversation. Then you're like, oh, yeah, Makes perfect sense. Yeah, that's.

[B]

That's right. Totally.

[A]

I don't want a little tray that I put five pennies and some keys on to do anything other than serve that purpose.

[B]

Be adorable and make everyone feel good and included.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. No one should get hurt when we're just trying to. People are just selling butter. It's like, just sell the butter.

[B]

Just sell the butter. Just make a vintage tray. Just fucking.

[A]

Well, they did, though. I mean, they took an action which is actually very. You know, in this day and age, it's important when you acknowledge the people

[B]

that actually do something that's actually really true. Yeah.

[A]

It's like all I'm thinking of as we're talking about this is, are we gonna kick off a new one? Is that.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

I don't want my tone of voice. Totally. I have the tone of voice where people are like, she's being sarcastic. It's like, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm mad that this is always a thing, but I'm taking it. I'm too much of a literal Karen to get to take that stance. So I have to change the tone of like, apologies and awarenesses as opposed to.

[B]

Yeah, fuck that passion and sarcasm. Like, how do you tell the difference these days?

[A]

It used to be really hip one in 2003.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, now let's get into Georgia's story about David Meyerhofer.

[C]

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[B]

if there's one thing to know about traveling with dogs, it's that they can't eat like you do on vacation.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

I only want to feed my dogs. Just food for dogs. Because it's human grade.

[B]

This is great for people who go out of town with their dog. But for people who go out of town without their dog, this is also just, just like easy. You can put it in the Tupperware. They just feed the dog, no fuss.

[A]

It's a real solution. So go to justfood for dogs.com and get 50% off your first order.

[B]

Goodbye.

[A]

The best kind of self care usually involves laying down.

[B]

And if you're in the bathtub, even better.

[A]

And now you can relax in the bath and hydrate your skin with Dr. Teal's skin renewal Deep hydration line.

[B]

Karen, you know I'm a bath influencer. Like that's part of my like weekly self care is baths. And I got excited when I opened the box they sent us of bath products.

[A]

I mean and it works so well. Like truly your skin will feel great. I have dry skin all the time. Especially the hotter the weather gets outside. And just getting it all taken care of at once and relaxing in the bathtub, it's amazing.

[B]

Find Dr. Teals all dressed in blue in your local bath aisle.

[A]

Dr. Teals. Yep. You needed that.

[B]

Goodbye. So the other night I was falling asleep to my audiobook that I always fall asleep to. It's either some space fucking story or Space Jam. Yes. I was thinking that too. The soundtrack to Space Jam.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Or Whoever Fights Monsters.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That book we love the best. Falling asleep. Couldn't fall asleep listening. And I was like, wait, what's the this about this case?

[A]

Had you never heard of it before?

[B]

I think I'd heard about it. Some people on the Facebook group had written about it here and there. So I'd maybe heard about it. And also Mindhunter. Even though the show, there's like a couple cases that are similar, it's not one of them, but I was intrigued. Let's do this. So In June of 1973, the Yeager family of Farmington, Michigan, they go camping at a campground in Montana's Waterhead State Park. It's near the small town of Manhattan. Montana, right? Yeah, Montana. It's their first trip or sorry, it's their first stop on a month long trip. They're going like, we're gonna, this is our first like family camping trip and we're gonna drive and all this, all the fun stuff that is fun when you're a kid. So that night Night, the parents tuck their five children into the kid's tent.

[A]

Oh, no. But just those words alone.

[B]

But three are teenagers. Three of the kids are teenagers and then two are grade schoolers. So they're like, great. They're together, they're safe. They should be safe, right? Yep, they fucking should be.

[A]

Yeah. And Also it's the 70s where not only are they together and safe, but some people would be like, yeah, you can leave them alone for four months. Yeah.

[B]

Give them a pack of cigarettes, a carton maybe.

[A]

You're all good.

[B]

Yeah. So that morning around 4am, one of the teens in the tent, this Heidi Yeager, wakes up and notices that her little sister, 7 year old Susie, is not in the tent any longer. And not only that, there's a fucking slash through the side of the tent. No. Uh huh.

[A]

And there's a hook hand hanging on

[B]

the top of the.

[A]

Fuck. This is like. This is urban myth shit.

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

She fucking flips out, wakes her parents up. No one in the tent. None of her siblings had heard a freaking thing. They had just were fast asleep. Authorities are called. Go ahead.

[A]

I just wanted to say the first thing I just. Somebody slowly slashing that tent open. Quietly.

[B]

A little rip of the fucking asking fibers.

[A]

Quietly and slowly.

[B]

Not. It wasn't a quick fast one.

[A]

So much scarier than a fast one.

[B]

I didn't think of that. And now I want to cry.

[A]

Yeah, me too. Okay.

[B]

And turn around. There's a wall mural of a forest behind you. Like where they were camping.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Oh my God. Okay. Authorities are called like in the. Like immediately. They find footsteps leading away from the tent. And the. So the FBI is called because. So at the time the FBI would only get involved in kidnapping cases if that was a possibility. That they were taken across state lines.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is fucking bananas. So they're called because maybe that was going to be a thing, I don't know. And then ensues the biggest search at the time in Montana history. They fucking drug the river bottom. They had helicopters circling. They did all this crazy shit. But Susie could not be found. One like, I think a couple days later, one random call, like ransom call came in. But saying we want this much money, we'll give her back. We'll call back with details. But no call was ever. No call came back.

[A]

Just the one call.

[B]

Just the. We'll call you about the ransom. Nothing came back. So almost a year later, the case is fucking stalled. And Special Agent Pete Dunbar, he is an agent in the, in the FBI's Montana office. He's attending a training session led by Howard Teton and Patrick Mullane. These two dudes are developing the FBI's newly formed Behavioral Science unit.

[A]

Oh, hell, yeah.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Hello. Hello.

[B]

Mindhunter.

[A]

Hi. You guys are the ones that are thinking that maybe all these guys have something in common.

[B]

Maybe if we study and interview thousands of murderers and murderers, we'll get something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So before the units even was created, there's not a lot known about criminal profiling. And their goal was to bring a public awareness to the psychology of murder and behavioral analysis. This Agent Dunbar dude is like, please take a look at this case. We need your help. Which is, like, so big of him, because back then there were so few. I feel like that was not a thing where you, like, asked for help from other heroes.

[A]

No, that was a huge deal. That's why in that show, those parts were so good, because it'd be like they would come to talk about one thing, then it would be the guy that would hang behind Sneak. Yeah, they all did. It was almost like they had to make sure no one knew.

[B]

It was like, emasculating by asking for help. Right, Right, right. Okay. So this. Although Teton and Mullany have been studying this stuff for a long fucking time, this turns into the first real case where they get to use their behavioral analysis. So this is the first case where this is used in real life. Irl, as they would say later.

[A]

Lol.

[B]

Lol. Irl. FBI. Omg. Crazy. Okay, so the three of them together, the three agents, they profile the case based on their studies and come to the conclusion that whoever had taken Susie. So this was her profile of him. They come upon the family during a habitual night, prowl and impulsively took her by cutting through the tent. So it was not planned, but he was doing his, like, fucking rounds of. Maybe he'd spotted an opportunity and acted. He appeared to be. They thought he was a young white male, a loner. Turner lived not far from the campsite. So a local. They thought he had military experience. Because the fact that he fucking broke into this tent and pulled a person out without anyone hearing it is so stealth. It's creepy. And he had killed before and possibly since.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

So it's like a year after her kidnapping. And then they were like, listen, Susan's. Susie's probably dead too. They were like, this is the part of. Of it. And that they said that he also probably collected trophies from the victim. So before these two had been called in, an informant had called and Suggested that his neighbor, David Meirhofer should be looked at. It was his neighbor. He's fucking creepy. Like one of those. Like, this guy's weird. You should look at him. Which usually we scoff at because we're like, weiras are not killers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So David Meirhofer is a 23 year old Vietnam vet who Agent Dunbar actually knew personally. He said, quote, david was well groomed, courteous, and exceptionally intelligent. He was the gentlest of persons to murderer. Right.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's not a good sign.

[B]

Look, and he was innocent. Moving on to the real suspect.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No, I'm not doing that.

[A]

We know that that's not how it works on law and order.

[B]

They. So the local FBI, law enforcement had questioned David and that he was. He was polite, well dressed, really helpful. So they didn't think it was him. He had even taken a polygraph test and taken truth serum and had fucking passed. Both flying fucking colors.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Do we believe him?

[A]

No. Oh, okay. No.

[B]

Oh, you do, you do.

[A]

Well, I was just thinking, okay, maybe he did it.

[B]

I just want to let. He's the killer. I just want to let everyone know

[A]

because the one thing I was. One of my theories was going to be at that time, Vietnam vets were

[B]

shat upon in this country and had bad ptsd.

[A]

Had ptsd, but also were judged by

[B]

others, but not by law enforcement. I think they respected Vietnam vets.

[A]

Oh, I guess. But I guess I'm just saying the person that would call in and be like this guy. You know what I mean? Baby killer. It's that. That was like, right. It People, they really attacked people for that. And so I was thinking maybe that was like, oh, he's violent because he was made. He made to go into the army.

[B]

Sure. But it doesn't mean. Yeah, no, he did it.

[A]

Okay, okay, That's a real relief.

[B]

I'm not like spoiling. It's like I'm only talking about him as. It's fine. Okay, so Mulaney and Teton had seen. But they. Okay, so now they. These two profilers come in and they use their fucking tactics and they're like, like, show us all the suspects you had. They read his chart and they're like, I'm so. I'm sorry. This guy. It doesn't fucking matter. They thought that he was a psychopath and he would have no problem passing a polygraph test which they had never heard of before this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because he was a fucking. He was able to disassociate himself from the person who had been. Who had killed someone.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So he was like, it's not fucking me.

[A]

Me.

[B]

And so I'm not lying, because I am not that person.

[A]

Right. And also, the thing I love about sociopaths, I mean, psychopaths, they don't get nervous.

[B]

Right?

[A]

They don't get nervous. They don't have stress reactions to things.

[B]

When I watched the old YouTube, like, it was one of those, like, old true crime shows where they had, like. There was, like, an FBI head guy who was the narrator.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there was no charisma whatsoever.

[A]

Because he was the real guy.

[B]

Because he was the real guy. It wasn't like a fight. Like, charming, you know, journalist.

[A]

Arena type.

[B]

Yeah. Like a journalist.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

They said, like, you know, they believed polygraph tests. Polygraph tests, implicitly. So this was, like, brand new as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Blah, blah, blah. Currently, they thought he was the killer for sure. These two dudes, Mulaney and Teton. But everyone else is like, hell, no, you're wrong. Even Dunbar, they were like, dude, it's not happening. Him. That was a quote, a direct quote. They. But then. Okay, then they're able to convince the Jaegers, the mother and father of Susie, now they're back in Michigan. They said, okay, we think this is the kind of killer that will contact you again because they want to be part of the investigation. It's the kind of thing where they want to be friends with cops, which fucking David Meyer. Hoffer. What? Chatty with cops.

[A]

Just like our boy Ed Kemper.

[B]

Exactly. They think that the kind of killer wants to insert themselves in the investigation and stay part of the victim's lives and continue to inflict pain.

[A]

So gross.

[B]

I know. Okay, so they're like, let's tape record. Let's put a tape recorder with your phone, and let's set up a tap. And they're like, hell, yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Meaning, meanwhile, Susie's mother, Marietta, she's a devout Catholic. And initially she says that she was, quote, ravaged with hatred and a desire for revenge, and that also she could have killed the man, quote, with my bare hands and a smile on my face.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which you're like, girl. Yes, absolutely.

[A]

100%.

[B]

Then she was like. As a devout Catholic, though, she's like. She says she understood that her hatred was gonna fucking kill her. And she says, I, quote, call. I was called to forgive my enemies, not to kill them. So I made the commitment to work toward an attitude of forgiveness. And so through that year, she was able to come to terms and start praying for whoever took her daughter. Even if it was like, maybe he's alive. So I'm praying for, you know, good weather that day. Or I'm praying, you know, she started kind of opening her heart to him, which is beyond incredible. Okay. Exactly one year to the fun day. And Karen, to the fucking minute. No, 3:30 in the morning, a call comes in. Oh. Huh. To the minute. Okay, so the kidnapper calls the Jaegers. Okay. Initially. So Marietta answers the phone and initially the caller tries to fuck with her and is like, your daughter's still alive. We've been traveling the world and you're not. You'll never see. See her again, all this bullshit. But Marietta was unfuck withable. And she fucking. Instead of being intimidated, she spoke to him with compassion and patience. And she told him she prayed for him every day and that she forgave him. And he fucking burst into tears and starts fucking weeping on the phone. Uh huh.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

The call ends up being a fucking hour long. And they're. And they're talking.

[A]

Are you fucking kidding me?

[B]

I am not fucking kidding.

[A]

Yeah. And then what? He confesses?

[B]

Not yet.

[A]

Okay. This is nutso.

[B]

I know. Okay, so they had an FBI voice analyst says the caller is definitely Ms. David Meirhofer for sure. But that is circumstantial evidence. It's not sufficient to obtain a probable cause search warrant of David's house. And then. So this is the fucking. This is crazy to me. And I like it. Makes me sad. So Agent Mulaney says that the caller quote, could be woman dominated, meaning it could be dominated by a female somehow. So he says to Marietta, Yeager, do us a favor, come back to Montana where your fucking 7 year old daughter was fucking kidnapped and have a. Have a face to face conversation.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

With David Meerha offer. She jumped on a plane. And I'm like, I hope they paid for that plane ticket. Can you imagine?

[A]

There's no way she paid.

[B]

I know, but how crazy would that be? I don't know. I know, but still, she should have

[A]

gone on like fucking Air Force One.

[B]

Yeah, first class.

[A]

That'd be a little crazy, but yeah,

[B]

then it'd be like a waste of taxpayers money.

[A]

Chartered plane, right?

[B]

Just first class something. Give her a meal on the.

[A]

Oh my God, this woman.

[B]

I know. So she meets David Meirhofer at his lawyer's office, begs him to tell her about Susan. He fucking clamps up. He won't talk. He's unmoved. He denies it. They're in there for an hour and finally it's like, this isn't working. So she leaves. She goes back home to Michigan. And then David calls her again. This time he says something else, like, like, oh, hey, my. He says, My name is Mr. Travis. I'm the one. I'm the one who did it. Like, trying to fucking trick her. I'm the one who did it. It's not this other guy. And then Marietta goes, what's up? Like, what's up, David? And he loses a. She's just like, hi, David.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

She fucking knows it.

[A]

She knows.

[B]

And he loses the shit. So by this time, though, the FBI is finally able to trace the color call and they arrest him, trace the call to him, you know, and now they have enough evidence for a search warrant in his home. Police discover everything's fine. Everything's fine. Open the freezer. Human remains. There's packages that look like. I guess they look like deli packages, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Like the pink paper.

[B]

Yeah. And labeled with the initials of who the pieces belong to. Not only do they belong to Susie, one of the packages contained a hand, like an entire hand with nails. Identified as a woman named Sandra Smolligan. Sandra was a 19 year old woman who had disappeared in 1974. So, like, after Susie, her remains had been found incinerated in the woods near an abandoned ranch. And it was known, and he had been questioned that she had refused a second date with David Muirhoffer.

[A]

Fuck.

[B]

But after, he volunteered. But he, at that time, way before all this, had volunteered to take a polygraph test and again, fucking passed it. So they were like, it's probably not him. But then they find her fucking hand in the freezer and they're like, it's him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So after the search and his arrest, David Meirhofer confesses to killing both Susie and Sandra. Sandra. He said that Sandra had. Here's the fucking bullshit of the day. He says that Sandra had died of suffocation when he had broken into her apartment. She's sleeping. He put. He was going to kidnap her and, like, keep her. He puts duct tape over her face, goes to pack her bag and realizes that he had accidentally put it over her nose, too, and she had suffocated from the duct tape.

[A]

Why bother lying like that? What's. I mean, come on, everybody.

[B]

Because then you don't seem like it's such a monster.

[A]

Yeah. To yourself. But everybody else still thinks you're a big asshole.

[B]

Right? But he incinerated her body so no one could tell, you know? That's so crazy. Quick sidebar. Weird. Fact, in 2005, a crew was doing some remodeling work on a garage fucking building thing and they tore into a wall to like change out the wall and found a wallet, identification and a small wire bound notebook that belonged to Santa Sandra.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

30 years later. Which is like my dream come true. My dream come true.

[A]

My dream come goddamn true.

[B]

Let's rip all the walls out of this apartment. It's a new build. It doesn't matter. Let's.

[A]

Was it on this podcast where we talked about the. Our low key superpowers?

[B]

No, we talked about that in person and it's one of my favorite things in the world. No.

[A]

So.

[B]

Oh, someone asked us in a VIP and yes, that's right. They were like, hey, hey, nice to meet you. Let's take a photo. Smiling. What's up? Really quickly. What's. This is my favorite question. What's your fucking low key superpower? That's like not that big of a deal.

[A]

And what was yours?

[B]

I don't remember, but it was something really stupid like I just want to eat food.

[A]

What was mine?

[B]

I don't know. I don't remember. Apparently looking through walls.

[A]

No, no, remember mine was when people can't remember the name of an actor or movie. I'll always be able to watch it.

[B]

Which you do anyways.

[A]

I wish I did, but I don't fully. I don't do it as much comprehensively. But I want to change it right now. So to whoever asked us that question, I would like to officially change who's

[B]

in charge of the.

[A]

I want it. Maybe if it's low key, then it can only be a one time thing. Okay. X ray vision to see either what's buried or what's hidden in walls.

[B]

Can it only be superficial things? How about. That's the. That's the trick of it being low key. It's only like a can of beer that the builder placed. It's like not a clue to anything.

[A]

I don't care.

[B]

Okay, then fuck it.

[A]

Because when I was growing, growing up, our friends had chicken coops on there. Like Petaluma. There's like just big old open fields with old chicken coops that have been sitting there since the like late 1800s.

[B]

Terrifying. I want to look through all of them.

[A]

You can. We would walk through them and there would just be old equipment hanging and shit everywhere. It's like people just kind of left them on the property because they used. It's like either their family used to

[B]

or they thought they were going to come back.

[A]

Chicken farmers or they bought the property and were like, ah, just leave it there.

[B]

They're.

[A]

There's like. It's those kind of like barns that are slightly sloping to one side that people take pictures of.

[B]

You shouldn't go in cause they're gonna collapse on your stupid head.

[A]

Yeah. But we were like, oh, this is how we fill our days. So Katie Newberger, my friend and the girl who lived down on the corner, her parents raised llamas and they also had an old house on their property. A house. And we used to go into it and one time. And some of the walls.

[B]

Was there furniture and shit in it?

[A]

No, no, it was just like. There was wallpaper on the walls and no cup. It was like flat board floors. But there was a hole in one wall. And I looked in it once and saw something and started pulling out bills to the chicken feed store that were handwritten.

[B]

Old bills. Oh my God.

[A]

And I was like, oh my God, look, look, look. And my friend Katie's like, oh yeah, those are in all the walls.

[B]

This is some straight Goonies shit.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You know what? Goonies fucking ruined it. They made me want to to do this.

[A]

Goonies raised the bar where it's like, I don't just want chicken feed bill store bills. I want a large ship filled with gold doubloons.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Hidden in a cove.

[B]

Yeah, but I want to start with the fucking attic with all the paintings in it.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

Listen, okay, look, look and listen. I've told you, please invite us to your abandoned house right fucking now. I left this part of them because I knew that this would happen. Because it's like my dream in the back.

[A]

Our dream.

[B]

I know it's yours too.

[A]

If you've ever found something in a wall, immediately, please. And no lying.

[B]

No lying. My favorite murderer Gmail. I did have a friend, a couple of friend who did a. Who were remodeling their house on their own here in LA and found like just like cool trinkets and stuff. Yeah, it was cool.

[A]

It'd be amazing.

[B]

Yeah, okay, okay, back to the story. Anyways, here's more horrible things. So he tried to kidnap her, blah blah, blah. She died, incinerated. Her body. That's for Sandra. Okay, then David Muir Hoffer is like, but wait, there's more. He confesses to the unsolved killing of two local boys. March 1967. 13 year old Bernard Pullman is playing with a friend in a crew creek in Manhattan, Montana. So at the time, David Meirhofer is a high school senior. And Bernard, this Kid's older brother was a classmate that David had fought with. David drives by, sees the little brother, fucking pulls over, takes his fucking.22 out of his car, hides behind some bushes, and fucking shoots Bernard through the fucking heart as he's playing.

[A]

Holy fuck.

[B]

Yeah. Then in May 1968, and this is five years before Susie had been kidnapped and murdered. Had been kidnapped and murdered. This is like 10 miles from where that had happened. A Boy Scout named Michael Rainey, he's 12 years old. He was sleeping in his tent at this boy Scout retreat. And his tent mate, who. Who was in the fucking den with him, wakes up to find him dead. He had been struck on the head and stabbed to death while he had been sleeping.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah. It's fucking crazy. David said he had randomly killed the boys because he was pissed that he had. He'd rarely killed that kid because he had been pissed that he had been fired from being involved in the Boy Scouts. Wow. I know. Which is, like, so problematic in your fucking thinking. Okay. I mean, obviously, yeah, he's a murderer. All right. As for lovely little Susie Yeager, David said he had taken her to an abandoned ranch and choked her to death after he had kept her, I think, for a little while in a closet, like a week. I know. Then he dismembered her and burned her pieces. Burned her up. But of course, we don't know what happened for sure because that's.

[A]

This is just all him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, so David Meirhofer, who Tetten and Mullaney believed had psycho schizopathy, Right? Which is a mix of psycho. Of psychopathy and simple schizophrenia. That's what they think he had. This was the case. This case was the first case solved by offender profiling. This is the first fucking case where these two dudes. Not the guys from Mindhunter, but very similar.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there actually is a book called Mindhunter, and that's what the. That's what it's based on. Yep. Whatever. Okay. So this is the first case solved by that. They believe that his motive had been the thrill of killing for sport. So he's just a fucking asshole.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they didn't. They couldn't interview him further because that night when he fucking confessed to everything at, like, early morning hours, they walk him back to his cell and he hangs himself with a. With a towel that was in the cell with him.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Of course he does.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But wait, I'm not ending it on that, cuz I'm not a fucking asshole. So that was September 29th. He's 25 years old. David MIRHOFFER HANGS HIMSELF Fuck you. Okay. What?

[A]

Fuck you.

[B]

I'm not as good as Marietta.

[A]

My heart. We may. We all strive to be that way. And in the. In time. Fuck you, dude.

[B]

All right, so back to Marietta. In the early 1990s, Marietta Yeager Co founds a group called Journey of Hope. Dots. From Violence to healing.

[A]

Dots.

[B]

That's a colon.

[A]

It's a colon.

[B]

It's absolutely a colon.

[A]

I also think the word earlier is pronounced psychopathy.

[B]

I knew I was getting it wrong, but I In.

[A]

When I read it. I read psychopathy, too.

[B]

You're totally, totally right. Psychopathy.

[A]

But it's like, that's. The people who study it are the ones who say it that way. I wasn't gonna correct you.

[B]

And you don't hear it that much anymore. It sounds like an old term, right? Yes. No, I'm glad you corrected me, because I was like, psychopathy. No, thank you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So Marietta, now in her late 70s, works with family members of murder victims and lectures at universities, schools, churches, fucking around the entire country. And also, like, went to the Hague and shit to fucking argue for certain.

[A]

I don't mean what is the Hague?

[B]

I think it's like the Peace Center. The. Like, let's. It's like the.

[A]

One of my favorite.

[B]

This might need to be edited out. Cause we sound real stupid.

[A]

No, no, no. I love to reference the hag. I think it's a really funny comedy reference. And one of my favorite people on Twitter, dvs, who is a rapper in New York, he made a tweet today about being at the Hague. And it made me love him so much. It was so funny and random and bizarre. But as I laughed at it, I. I was like, I just don't know what this actually means.

[B]

How on earth is the Hague mentioned twice in one day for you?

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

That's why. That's why I mentioned this anecdote.

[B]

I think it's like the peace. The Peace Center.

[A]

It's. It's something political for sure.

[B]

It's like where you. It's where you can't be a fucking asshole. It's like the Hague is, like, where everyone looks for peace and justice. Jesus Christ.

[A]

That's not real, Steven.

[B]

Steven's laughing at it and looking at his phone. Read it, Stephen. It's Peace Center. I don't know. I can't find an actual definition of this.

[A]

It doesn't exist. It's a political building where they. Isn't that like where they.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it's the International City of. Oh, it's a city. It's called the International City of Peace and Justice. Oh, my God.

[A]

You were word for word, right?

[B]

Everyone suck my neck right now. Elvis, am I right? Oh, my God.

[A]

God, I'm so sorry I doubted you. It just sounded like total.

[B]

The thing is, it was total. I just must have learned about it somewhere and think my brain is a better fucking fly trap than I thought it was.

[A]

You, like, that was like you Wikipedia memorized that and you didn't even know it. Nice one.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Shit. I'm gonna call my production company the Haggard. So good. Do you think that's copywritten or do

[B]

you think it's 100%? Also, you're opening a production company. Can I get it on?

[A]

Oh, I didn't tell you. It's more for sports. That's my new thing.

[B]

I love it. Love sports. Okay. Boop, boop, bop. Okay, so she's in her late 70s. She fucking is like telling everyone what? She works for the survivors so they don't end up, quote, giving the offenders another victim themselves. Because that whole thing of, like, this hate is going to construct.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So she's like, here's how to forgive. It's not, you know, I'm making this part up. But it's not for them. You're not forgiving them for them. You forgive them for yourself because you can't have that 100%. Yeah, that's.

[A]

It's so true. And like. And I think it's also every. It's everybody's kind of overarching goal. Because we all have things we're mad about. We all have bitterness and we all

[B]

think, like, it doesn't affect that other person at all.

[A]

No.

[B]

Unless you bitch slap them once a day. Like it doesn't even.

[A]

But even then it feels terrible.

[B]

Right. And you're angry.

[A]

A couple dreams where there was one person I was very mad at for a long time and I had to have dreams about slapping her face. And when I woke up, I was so relieved that I didn't actually do it because it feels terrible. Like making yourself feel terrible in an effort in the name of vengeance. Yeah, it's. But that's such. That's high level recovery. Fucking Buddhist shit.

[B]

Yeah. Don't be mad at yourself if you're not there yet. This is serious fucking.

[A]

I don't. I mean, like, that's the hardest.

[B]

That's.

[A]

I feel like it's. I mean, that's. Yeah, that's long term.

[B]

Goals.

[A]

Yeah, long term goals.

[B]

And like we're talking about someone who made out with our boyfriend, not someone who murdered our seven year old daughter. Yeah, our child. Yeah. So listen, so it's even baby steps.

[A]

It's even more just self care. Look, we're all. Listen, we're all trying to walk to the hag, right? But there's miles to go. We got miles to go, you know, the hay.

[B]

The Hague is your end game.

[A]

Hag's and game. Don't be mad at yourself that you're not at the Hague. No, we're still, we're still here in America. We don't even know where the fucking country the Hague is in. Well, what it does. Where is it? Denmark or some shit like that? I bet it is somewhere.

[B]

Sweden. Somewhere. The vague is in the Hague place. The Hague is in a vague place. Denmark. Karen. No, no, Netherlands. Sorry.

[A]

Okay, now I have to ask another embarrassing question. Question. Isn't Denmark in the Netherlands?

[B]

Aren't we going there?

[A]

No, Amsterdam's the Netherlands.

[B]

Aren't we going there this spring? Yeah, we're going there in May. Yeah, it's the Netherlands.

[A]

The Netherlands is where Amsterdam is, right? Yeah. Okay, so I'm not. But Denmark, Denmark's its own beautiful independent country. Oh my God, now they're so.

[B]

Cut that cut the first half of

[A]

this podcast and the second half, a fucking disaster.

[B]

It's the first and second. Okay, let me finish.

[A]

Yes, sorry.

[B]

No, no, no, you're fine. Because we need to get through this. Yeah, because I'm gonna. Because I'm trying to end this on a positive note.

[A]

We just keep, you know what it is. It couldn't be a more positive note and we're like ruining it.

[B]

We're just giddy for some positive news.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

Okay, okay. Marietta is also an advocate against the death penalty. She says, quote, I would not honor the good and sweetness and beauty of my little girl's life by killing someone in their name. And then she says she's worth, she's worthy of a more honorable memorial than a cold blooded state sanctioned killing of a defenseless person, however deserving of death that person may be. Which, like, agree or disagree. That's a beautiful fucking statement. And you can't argue with someone who's talking about the killer of their daughter. You're like, no, you're wrong.

[A]

And here's no, no, there's no arguing that because that's a person. That's first person experience.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. So anybody else? I mean, like, look, everybody obviously grieves and Processes in their own way. But that concept, it's a reframing of looking at it, which is you really are doing it self righteously in the name of the person who was killed.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

But then it's like she's making you rethink that. Which is brilliant and really, really amazing.

[B]

Are you ready for fucking to go to practice what you preach town?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Are you ready to fucking visit it and go there and stay there for a holiday?

[A]

You mean the peace place?

[B]

Yeah. You ready to go to the Hague to practice what you Hague? So after David's suicide, Marietta reaches out to David Meirhofer, the fucking killer of his daughter. Her daughter reaches out to them. To David Muirhofer's mother.

[A]

Yes. Because she's a victim, too.

[B]

And in the years following his suicide, the moms together accompanied each other's. To each other's children's graves. No. And she said, quote, together we were able to grieve as mothers who had lost their children. I hoped that it would help her to know that I had forgiven him. I know.

[A]

Holy fucking shit.

[B]

I know.

[A]

What? Say her name again. Marietta.

[B]

Marietta Yeager.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. I think she wrote a book too. But the group is called Journey of Hope and it's co Found. Yeah. It's fucked up. It's crazy.

[A]

I can't, like. Because you've seen that. I mean, we've all seen that on true crime shows where the family of the perpetrator is horrified and like. And they are in this strange bubble

[B]

and they have this shame and humiliation.

[A]

Guilt by association.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like, what could I have done to prevent this?

[A]

And they often are the subject of so much hatred.

[B]

Right. But probably, maybe, or maybe were victimized by the person, the perpetrator themselves.

[A]

Yes. God damn. That's high level, high level human work right there. Marietta Yeager.

[B]

Fuck. Yep. And that's that.

[A]

Wow, Georgia, that was amazing.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

It was very.

[B]

That's what happens when you have insomnia and you listen to terrible books. And they're like, oh, that's like. Of course you're not sleeping. You're listening to this shit.

[A]

It's so funny, though, because when I was listening to did those. Is it those who Fight Monsters?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I think it is something like that.

[B]

Which, by the way, is a great book to fall asleep to. I fucking bring it down to. Instead of at full speed, I bring it down to 75% speed. Oh, good fucking night.

[A]

Usually I like that narrator.

[B]

Yeah, it's he's good. He's. He sounds like an FBI agent.

[A]

He sounds official and standard. But then there's also an interestingness to his voice. But when I was reading that. Because that book, it seems like that book has 95 chapters. Like, when I was reading it, it was just in my car every time I would drive around and it felt like it went on forever, but every time I would be like, write this down. This could be a murder. Because there are so many ones that were obscure or I either hadn't heard of or knew a little bit about where I was like, write this down. And I just never know.

[B]

Well, this is the reason I found this one is because I was on the last chapter and it's about Eddie Kemper. And it's just this, like, even Keel guy, narrator, talking about. He would cut the heads off of them. And I was like, what are you listening to, Georgia?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So then instead of like, putting something else on about, like, space, I put on chapter seven. I was like, this chapter, I'll go

[A]

to a different chapter of the murder book where this is the subject again. Yeah, it's just going to be a different body.

[B]

It just won't be a. Anything that's not Ed Kemper is all I need.

[A]

Also, have people already started up fan groups for the actor? Cause I realized I said our boy Ed Kemper. But what I mean is the actor who played Ed Kemper in Mindhunter is.

[B]

Well, you know, we're following him on Instagram now.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah, because someone. We joked about how he would be. He should be on. What's that? Pitch Perfect. Pitch Perfect. And so someone. And someone made a fucking amazing graphic with just him photoshopped in there very badly on purpose, and it was super hilarious.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[B]

And so someone tagged the dude who plays him, and I was like, hey, look, you're on this podcast. And so we're following him now. I don't know if I can find his name right now. I probably can't. We follow Beyonce too, so.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

He's gotta be in there somewhere. But it's pretty cool. Great.

[A]

That's so rad.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's pretty. Cuz he looks like a. He looks like your. Like your big friend from high school that, like, always has shitty weed to hang out with you with and, like, video. Like, he just looks cool and fun and then he looks like.

[A]

Men in his life have always tried to pressure him into playing football, but then he would talk to them about, like, quantum physics and they Leave him alone.

[B]

And he, like, really likes hanging out with girls, but, like, not sexually assaulting them.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

Unlike Ed Kemper. And then he, like, will post a photo on Instagram of like, here's me as Ed Kemper. You gotta watch this. And it's like, oh, my God. That's not you. It's. Oh, Stephen. Cameron Britton. Yay.

[A]

Is he Canadian?

[B]

He looks.

[A]

He's got a Canadian vibe to me.

[B]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Cameron let us know.

[A]

Well, that was great. And we're back. Do you have any updates?

[B]

There are no case updates, but In January of 2022, journalist and author Ro Franchiel wrote the book Shadow Man An Elusive Psycho Killer and the birth of FBI profiling about this case and the role it played in the FBI's first criminal profile, which I think is so interesting. We should all check that out. All right, let's get into Karen's story about Randall Sado.

[C]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

I mean, traveling with dogs, we've Both done it. It is such a pain getting a whole cooler. So to make sure that my dog's food is okay for them to eat at the perfect time that they have to eat it. Just food for dogs. Dogs. Like, it's such a solution. I'm so grateful to them because my dogs absolutely need this for that drive

[B]

up north, go to justfoodfordogs.com and get 50 off your first order. Goodbye.

[A]

The best kind of self care usually involves laying down.

[B]

And if you're in the bathtub, even better.

[A]

And now you can relax in the bath and hydrate your skin with Dr. Teal's skin renewal deep hydration line.

[B]

Karen, you know I'm a bath influencer. Like that's part of my like weekly self care is bathroom baths. And I got excited when I opened the box they sent us of bath products.

[A]

I mean, and it works so well. Like truly, your skin will feel great. I have dry skin all the time. Especially the. The hotter the weather gets outside and just getting it all taken care of at once and relaxing in the bathtub, it's amazing.

[B]

Find Dr. Teals all dressed in blue in your local bath aisle.

[A]

Dr. Teals. Yep. You needed that.

[B]

Goodbye.

[A]

So this, this, as I've already said several times, I drove down the five today.

[B]

Honey, I bet this is gonna be amazing.

[A]

No, no, no. This is part of. This is like the beginning.

[B]

I'm sorry I called you honey. Oh, okay. I get it. I thought you were telling about how bad it was gonna be and I'm sorry.

[A]

Well, it is, but I've already made that clear.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I wanted to do a story. Something about the five.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

Right now, I've already done the i5 killer. The guy that used to be on the football team. Um, that is. I mean, and then there was also an i5 strangler, but he was one of those ones that I didn't. It just was depressing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was a lot of women. Women's bodies lost in creek beds for years and years.

[B]

We say these. It was just depressing. We mean, it also didn't have interesting facts. We don't mean like. Like they're all fucking depressing.

[A]

They're all. This one was once again, a man who for 20 to 30 years just got away with killing whoever the fuck woman he wanted to come by.

[B]

There's no myriada at the end of that fucking story.

[A]

That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. Except for that's not true in the i5 strangler there's a, there's a detective who would go and hike up in the mountains because the one woman that this guy said he killed but they couldn't find. He would just go hike to see if he could find something. And he finally fucking found a quarter size bone in a creek that when. That had been a dry creek bed when he put her body there, but was now a flowing creek.

[B]

What the fuck?

[A]

He found it and they DNA tested it and it was her.

[B]

What in the fucking fuck?

[A]

I bet you I had all that on a document somewhere. Somewhere I could have given you the name, but it was pretty amazing. And that was one of those things where there are detectives out there who do that job because they want, they not only want to help people, but they, they want to solve people's like that sadness for families.

[B]

They want people, they want them to

[A]

know, they want to end the sadness as much as they can.

[B]

There's no closure. We know that. Yeah, but you need. But not knowing is worse.

[A]

Exactly. And he would hike, he would just hike around the area. I mean it's amazing anyway, but apparently that didn't cut. That didn't cut it for me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Apparently my standards are even higher than that. Amazing story. No, here's what it is. I hadn't heard this, but this is a. Not only is it not an old story, this is almost a borderline breaking story.

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

So that when I heard it, I was like, hold on, I'd never heard anything about this. So on Wednesday, November 15th. Wait, like two weeks ago, a cab driver in Stockton, California, he picks up a fare and he notices that the man that's in his car fits the description of the APB that the San Joaquin County Sheriff's Department had just put out for a six foot tall with a heavy build, black hair and black eyes.

[B]

Oh no.

[A]

Was very dangerous. And the APB said do not approach him under any circumstances or pick him

[B]

up in your cab. Right.

[A]

So this Cab driver calls 911 and says, I think I just had this guy in my cab. And at 10:30am Police arrest 59 year old Randall Sato at a gas station on Highway 99. And it turns out, turns out Randall was an escapee of a Hawaiian mental hospital where he had lived. He has lived for the past 40 years.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

He is described by the doctors and the people that committed him there as violent. A violent, manipulative psychopath and a murderer. So here's what he did to get into that mental Hospital. In 1977, a woman named Sarah Sandra Yamashiro was walking to her car out of a mall called the Ala Moana Center. Next to her car is a car parked and a man sitting in that car. He shoots her in the face with a pellet gun in her car. And he goes over to. Asks if she's okay. She's been shot in the face.

[B]

Oh, my God. God.

[A]

And then he repeatedly stabs her.

[B]

He goes over to, like, see if she's okay, and.

[A]

And then, well, says the phrase like, are you okay? But he just went over there and then basically stabbed her multiple times, left her. Left her in her car, and then got back into his car where his girlfriend was sitting in the car and drove away.

[B]

Was she a. Okay, go on.

[A]

I don't know anything about the girlfriend because this is so fresh that basically all the. It's one of those things where there's the AP story that came out. There was a story that was in Time and AP and every other article in every other newspaper was basically the same article with different. Slightly different word changing, what we call the Karen Kilgariff treatment. So. So he's tried for this murder and he is acquitted by reason of insanity. So he.

[B]

His girlfriend had to know because you don't stab a person that many times and then get into a car and you don't. Blood all over you.

[A]

She's sitting in the car next to the car where the murder's taking place

[B]

and she's hanging out and having a great time. I don't.

[A]

She's with murder. Unless she has 70s fucking headphones on and an eye mask. Like, there's no way she doesn't know exactly what the fuck's on going, oh, good point. If she's driving creepy. Well, either way, he gets tried. He's not convicted. Instead, he's acquitted by reason of insanity, but then he is committed to the Hawaii State Psychiatric Hospital.

[B]

Okay, good.

[A]

Where he's lived for the past 40 years. Fuck. Yeah. So here's what happened. On Sunday, November 12th, 19am Randall walks off the ground.

[B]

No, he shouldn't be able to do that.

[A]

Right, he shouldn't. And he walks to a place called Kanaoke park, which is how I'm thinking that they pronounce it. So he gets to this park, he calls a cab. The dispatcher, there was a whole article about this dispatcher. It's a female cab driver comes and picks him up. Oh, no, there's a video camera inside the cab and it shows him. And he now has a backpack that he didn't have or couldn't have had at the psychiatric hospital. And he. In the video, he's looking through the backpack like he's never seen it before. So he's, like, rifling through it to see what's in it. Oh, my God. No, no, no. He pays the cab driver in cash, and he gets dropped off at the airport where he has chartered already. Chartered a place. Plane. Cost him 1500 bucks. If you charter a plane that's essentially a private plane, and you don't.

[B]

You don't have to check your.

[A]

That's right. What the. If you pay a guy 1500 bucks and you're like, can you fly me to Maui? They're like, okay. They don't. They don't make you do anything extra.

[B]

That's not enough money to not have that checked.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But.

[A]

But it is. It is Hawaii, where it's all islands, and that's kind of a major mode of transportation.

[B]

Right, Right, right, right, right.

[A]

As I learned hard. Ticket to Hawaii, please. Watch it. If you've never seen it, you haven't. Okay, so then. So he gets. He gets to Maui. Then he. With the fake ID that was in there, you know, postulating was in the backpack. So basically, somebody put that backpack together for him.

[B]

Who?

[A]

His.

[B]

I bet it was his cousin. I'm just gonna say cousin. Fucking cousins, man. They're always. Fuck. They're always fucking helping you too much.

[A]

They're always aiding and they're always abetting.

[B]

Always aiding and abetting.

[A]

So he gets onto a Hawaiian Air flight to San Jose.

[B]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

Imagine the difference between. You live in Hawaii and you fuck. You're like, I gotta get to San Jose.

[B]

Imagine who sat next to him right on the plane. I want to know what he drank. I want to know. Wanted to know what sandwich he ordered. And they were out of that sandwich, so he had to get a fucking wrap.

[A]

I'll tell you what. He has a backpack full of cash, seemingly because he bought.

[B]

But they don't take cash on planes anymore.

[A]

Good point.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

He got zero drinks on that plane. He got zero sandwiches on that plane. Unless it was a JetBlue, where you go up to that awesome little refrigerator. I have never. George and I took a flight, and There was a JetBlue setup now, where instead of them bringing around a weird wicker basket of, like, do you want a pretzel or not?

[B]

And, like, pick it now.

[A]

Now pick it where I.

[B]

More than one.

[A]

Don't put this on me. I always say no out of, like, pride.

[B]

I always pick wrong And I get bummed about it.

[A]

I'm always like, I'm above pretzels and cookies.

[B]

I actually hate pretzels, but I would have loved those yam chips or whatever the.

[A]

I want to. I don't want a basket shoved at me like it's the offering plate in church. I want to sit with my decision and be like, what do I want?

[B]

And I'm grab each and then eat a little of each. Like a fucking.

[A]

I want to dig through it like a large raccoon.

[B]

I want all of them.

[A]

I want to touch each bag even though they're the same brand and the same item.

[B]

Yeah, well, he didn't get that opportunity.

[A]

He didn't get shit. Unless it was a jet black, right? No, it wasn't. It was Hawaiian Air.

[B]

Okay, we knew that.

[A]

We knew that. We knew that going in. I just wanted to talk about a mid plane refrigerator and snack cupboard that was purely based on. Do you have the guts to walk up here and grab your food? And then it was just all the bravest people on the planet.

[B]

That makes me sad.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because you have to be brave to go up and get a snack?

[A]

Well, I mean, that's just societal pressure where it's like you walk up there, but everyone's gonna watch you. Like for me, who?

[B]

Fuck. Fuck you. I'm gonna point at everyone next time. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. I'm go through the plane.

[A]

Here's what I did. I waited and waited and waited. Then I waited till I had to go to the bathroom. Cause the bathroom was right across from this area. Then as I came out of the bathroom, I pretended I'd never seen the cupboard before. And then I went, well, I guess I will have a while. I'm up. I mean, this makes me think you

[B]

have shame issues around eating and drinking.

[A]

Do you think because I fucking. This makes you think. Not me telling you over and over that I have a severe.

[B]

Oh, I don't listen when you say those things. I'm like, yeah, Karen, we all have issues.

[A]

Blah, blah, blah.

[B]

Great, what do you want to order? And well, I guess this is probably why when we do order, I'm like, let's get the this and this, this and this. Because then you'll just say yes instead of yes saying, I don't want that. No, I'm not ordering it.

[A]

I also my. My favorite new thing is yes, let's get four things. Okay. Sorry, this is just a sidebar.

[B]

This is. This poor guy this has become about us.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Poor guy. This, this.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Him. Okay.

[A]

What we went to. There was a new restaurant that opened at Petaluma while I was home for Thanksgiving, and Adrian and I made plans for lunch. That was. My dad was like, hey, want to go to lunch? And I was like, adrian, can we collapse these plans together? I meant I'm under a lot of pressure. And she's like, totally. Let's party with Jim.

[B]

Is he the coolest? I want to hang out with him so bad.

[A]

My dad? Yeah, he's the greatest, man.

[B]

Is he coming in our LA show?

[A]

I think we could get him to.

[B]

Let's. Let's put him up at, like, a really nice hotel. Like, let's spoil Jim. I want Vince and him to talk about wrestling.

[A]

He would. Him and Vince should go on their own separate vacation.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They would be best friends immediately. Do you know that my dad got mad, we went to this place and they didn't have Budweiser and he wanted to leave.

[B]

Oh, Vince is like that too.

[A]

Yeah, it was that thing where he goes, I go, dad, they have log. They have all laganitas on top because laganitis is in petaluma.

[B]

That's the. Oh, it is.

[A]

That's. I don't want that. Who doesn't have Budweiser?

[B]

Seriously?

[A]

No.

[B]

Vince gets pissed if they don't have, like, certain things.

[A]

Lunch started with. With us, like, anger.

[B]

Oh, your dad and I are gonna get along. Lunch, drinking. Sign me the up, honey.

[A]

When you walk into. You guys have to come up. When you walk in to Jim's house, the first thing he says to you, hey, want a cold one?

[B]

Can he make me. I know that he used to drink Manhattans. Oh, your mom. Can he make me a Manhattan?

[A]

He would love to make you a Manhattan. It would be his favorite thing. And he would also laugh like, you're gonna have a Manette. You would think it was the most refreshing thing in the world. Okay. Yeah, they party. He parties. They. Well, kind of. All my family, I was thinking of, because at his birthday party, we went out. We all went out to dinner. And Carol Painter, who was sitting next to me, his friend. His friend Woody, who's also a firemanhattans are like, the first thing they order at a restaurant.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I love it.

[A]

They're good times. Good time people. So from Maui, he goes to San Jose. He arrives in California 5:30, Hawaiian time. Two hours later, the hospital alerts the authorities that he's missing, which is eight hours after he walks down the hospital

[B]

grounds in a different fucking part of the planet. And they're like, oh, hey, look, we

[A]

just did a quick bed check. We did an evening bed check, and Randall wasn't around.

[B]

We did our once a day bed.

[A]

This is a hospital with 300 patients. They're at capacity. And the sad part is, or whatever part, they're now all under investigation. Like over 60 employees are on unpaid leave until they figure out how this happened. I just hope they figure it out quickly so that they're not just punishing a bunch of random people.

[B]

59 of those people deserve their job back.

[A]

And hey, you work at a psychiatric hospital, you better get paid every minute of the time you're there. That's a hard job, basically. Then the APB goes out at 8:30. So this is like, you know, a lot of time has passed since Randall has just super chill style, walked off psychiatric grounds. So somebody called in a tip line and let the authorities know in Hawaii that Randall had a brother that lived in Stockton, California. And that's how they knew to alert the San Joaquin Sheriff's Department. Hey, you put out the same apb, make sure. And that's how that news all got distributed correctly.

[B]

Can you quick sidebar.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Quick fill time. Can you imagine being that brother being in Stockton with your family and friends. You haven't seen your brother in 40 years.

[A]

You're not crazy. But brother that murdered someone.

[B]

Knock on the goddamn door.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Look through the peephole. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Go on.

[A]

Hawaii 5. Oh, sorry. That was.

[B]

No, that was the best thing I've ever heard in my fucking life. That gorgeous. I salute you.

[A]

Okay, so altogether they. Randall had been on the run for four days, that whole span of time. But he had been trying to leave that psychiatric hospital for a while. So in 1993, he put in a request for conditional release, saying that he and the court said, no fucking way. You are a sexual sadist and a necromancer File. Oh, so you have to stay in the mental hospital. Deputy prosecutor Jeff Albert said Randall Sato is very disturbed, mentally ill individual who is very dangerous with respect to whom all the predicators indicate that if he were to be released, he would kill again.

[B]

Oh, dear.

[A]

Then in 2000, his. He gets his defense attorneys to once again argue for his release. And again that same prosecutor, Jeff Albert, says he fills the criteria of a classic serial killer. Basically, he's not getting out. But a lot of people that worked there and the people that the doctors that, you know, analyzed him or whatever the word is, said he was also very personable and had very good social skills because he's a psychopath. He's a master manipulator.

[B]

Don't use that as a yeah, but it's like. Yeah, and Right.

[A]

It is. I think for them it is a yeah, and. But I was using it as a segue.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I was trying to make it. I was trying to turn it that basically, since he's been in this mental hospital, he has had six significant relationships. Three have been with staff members of this hospital.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah. And to the point where then a hospital administrator found out that Randall had been being escorted home for weekend conjugal visits for two full years with nobody on that, like high with like a nurse or whatever. Yeah. He had two wives out outside of the hospital that he would. He basically tricked people into letting him go home and like fuck his wife. Two different wives.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

They ended up blocking the visits for all patients two years later. Exactly. Nobody now he's like, you know what? Now nobody can leave the facility. Now nobody gets to.

[B]

That's not fair.

[A]

Have conjugal visits here or off. But if you think about it, if you've been committed to a mental hospital because you fucking stabbed and shot a woman for him.

[B]

Yeah, but everyone else is like, all I did was go crazy one night and like break stuff.

[A]

Oh, that's true. Well, I mean, yeah, that's case by case.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But in general, they're basically saying when you are dealing with like people like this, this can't even be an option on the table.

[B]

No. Because you're jail with treatment.

[A]

Exactly. But he has been there for a long time. So he's like, you know, the mind is going. The mind of a psychopath is going always so. And actually, those dalliances were impetus for a rule change. In 2003, the state attorney General's office decided mental patients committed to Hawaii State Hospital have no legal right to conjugal visits. So that actually, actually went to the state level because of him. Yeah, because it was that bad.

[B]

And he got so horny, he broke out.

[A]

He's like, someone get me a backpack. I gotta get to San Jose.

[B]

I gotta.

[A]

So in 2015, Honolulu prosecutor Wayne Tsushima argued against him receiving passes to leaving the hospital grounds without an escort. So again, he was asking, he's like, guys, real quick, it's just me.

[B]

I know you've said that before.

[A]

It's just me. The murderer. Can I just take a walk around

[B]

the grounds real quick?

[A]

And in this, these articles, they're also interviewing the neighbors that live near this hospital where they're like, yeah, we didn't know they were allowed to leave. We didn't know any of this was happening. It's super crazy. So anyway, the judge. So you know how he was acquitted on account of mental insanity. The circuit court judge who deemed him mentally unfit to stand trial and committed him to the hospital is a controversial figure. He said that because after he shot her and then went to check on her and asked if she was okay. Okay, that to him meant he was insane. And so he was not. He could not stand trial.

[B]

Oh. That's all it was based on.

[A]

The whole thing was based on simply that. And this is what he said. If you look at the evidence that was presented, she did not move, she was bleeding profusely, her face was down. She did not move or answer him at that point. And for him to think that she would identify him and therefore he had to kill her, that becomes irrational also in my mind. The same year that he had that ruling, he overturned a jury verdict that found high profile Honolulu crime boss Charlie Stevens guilty of a double murder. Stevens admitted to the murder.

[B]

And the jury was like, yep, you did it.

[A]

Jury was like, he was guilty. This guy comes in and it's like overturned.

[B]

Don't ever do that.

[A]

He's going to walk away.

[B]

Judges.

[A]

He said there wasn't enough evidence. There wasn't enough evidence. And the guilty party confessed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So anyway, they basically, after that happened, protests happen at the state capitol and everyone was calling for his firing and an investigation because clearly there's something going on. Are you on the take all the cases?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But especially with things like that where he's basically kind of. And I mean, obviously this is super technical, but the idea that a judge is like, I've decided you're too crazy to go to jail. You can go over here, but you don't have to go to jail for this murder. Because I just, I think that seems crazy.

[B]

Yeah. Because this one thing you did in my mind and like, you're not a fucking crazy person. So you're judging this based on your own fucking, you know, just like your taste. Yeah, that seems crazy to me. That's crazy.

[A]

That's crazy. Don't go to jail. Okay. Oh, also on October 6, 1981, that same judge was arrested for drunk driving. And he was found later at his family's Mokelea beach house with multiple injuries, including a broken collarbone. He said that he passed out as he was beaten, but the investigators think that he tried to hang himself.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So that's my super sloppy, but kind of Amazing. Still breaking story.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

Where every article I read had a little more information.

[B]

So he's in custody now?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In.

[A]

They. They've extradited him back to.

[B]

He didn't kill anyone while he was out there.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Did he go to his brother's house? Did they have things? He didn't have dinner.

[A]

He didn't make it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He didn't get any of that. He basically took two plane rides. Well, three on the way back and a couple cab rides.

[B]

And we don't know who gave him the backpack yet.

[A]

That's the thing. Is it his girlfriend in the hospital? Is it the girlfriend that he was visiting on his day pass? It's her outside of the hospital.

[B]

Sorry, honey, it's you.

[A]

But there could be somebody on the inside, because that's who.

[B]

But how do you leave a thing if you're on the inside? Oh, you mean like one of the.

[A]

She's like, I'll leave it by this awesome coconut tree as you walk out of the front door.

[B]

Oh, so it could have been on the grounds.

[A]

Because also, how does he just walk off the grounds? Like, just. Just walk off.

[B]

Yeah. You'd hope it'd be more secure than that.

[A]

And go to the park. If he's. If he is a criminal, where the. The deputy district attorney is like, this man is. Has all the makings of a serial killer.

[B]

Yeah. But like, think of. You're like, I've watched this dude. He's never tried to escape. It's like, you don't need to worry if he wants to go look at the glass on the. Whatever the.

[A]

And he's a psychopath, so he's going to be able to tell you exactly what you want to hear to make you trust him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And get. And maybe get you a. Get him a backpack filled with cash and fake IDs.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because he had to have a fake ID to get onto that Hawaiian Air flight. So somebody was doing. Somebody was breaking the law for him.

[B]

Actually. Yeah. Oh, that motherfucker's going to jail.

[A]

But then the thing that kind of drives me crazy, I really wanted to know more about that murder because also, it's so insane and extreme, it seems like other. There's.

[B]

Because there's not. The thing about that is there's nothing sexually sadist about that murder from what you've told me.

[A]

No. Or necrophilia.

[B]

Right. So there's more shit going on.

[A]

It's like they have taken this story and they. It kept saying police records, hospital records, and then interview things so it's like this story is kind of like piecing itself together as it goes.

[B]

There's way more going on.

[A]

There's way more. And I wonder, like, when I was Googling, because I really was just trying to look up Sandra, Sandra yamashiro's murder in 1977. And you can only find it within these articles about him.

[B]

Or they're like the original. The original news report that someone made.

[A]

Yes, I was trying to do that. Quotes around the name, all those search things that you try to do, and nothing came up about her specifically, which drives me crazy. But I guess also because it's so long ago that maybe those. Like that microfiche has been thrown away. But anyway, hopefully more stuff will come out about that because it seems like that guy's done way more stuff and obviously he's been prosecuted for.

[B]

That's awesome. I can't wait to hear more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're back. Two heavy hitters this week. Karen, do you have any updates?

[A]

I do have a couple. So after escaping, Randall served five years at the Halawa Correctional Facility before he was transferred back to the Hawaii State Psychiatric Hospital. When he was charged, he pled guilty to the escape charge, but he said he had no other option but to flee. He said he escaped to prove that he could exist in the community without harming anyone, saying, quote, this is about buying myself time in the community to prove that I could be in the community without doing anything wrong. Wow. End quote. A new building for the hospital was unveiled in 2021, including more cameras and fewer blind spots and exit points.

[B]

And.

[A]

And after Saito escaped, six hospital employees were placed on off duty status, and no employees were formally disciplined anywhere beyond that.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. That story's wild. And I remember, like, discovering it and getting interested in it, and it feels like 50 years ago. It's such a strange. Like, this part of this experience is so funny where it's like, oh, yeah, we've done so many of these stories and each one was, like, exciting and interesting and like a full, you know, a full dive into a whole world. It's. It's kind of almost like, heavy to think about.

[B]

Yeah. Once we got past, like, the first 20, where, like, we could pick them off the top of our heads. The stories we wanted to cover that we've always been interested in and had to start, like, doing some digging and some Googling.

[A]

Real research.

[B]

Real research. Yeah. And, like, stories we had never heard of. It became a job, but it also got really interesting.

[A]

Yeah. It was like we could be directional about what we wanted to be talking about and why. Right.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

It's cool. It's like watching ourselves get a little agency as we're riding this insane canoe.

[B]

Yeah. Like, we can actually. Not a canoe, Karen. We're not on a goddamn canoe. Are you fucking kidding me?

[A]

It's kind of crazy like a canoe where sometimes the weight's off and it gets all shaky and you're like, what the fuck is going on?

[B]

All those canoes you ride in all the time.

[A]

You know, every once in a while when the white waters come up in the canoe up to paddle a very specific way.

[B]

All right, let's head back into good things of the week from 2017, of all places. A. I know. That was great.

[A]

Thanks, Georgia.

[B]

Yeah, Karen, good job.

[A]

Look.

[B]

Look at your ma. Nail polish.

[A]

You know what's insane?

[B]

What?

[A]

Laura can attest to this. We could call her right now. I bought this nail polish last night and I go, isn't this the best color? And she goes, that's the color mom used to wear.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I swear to God. Aw. I swear to God.

[B]

Mauve.

[A]

It is. It's like a brownish mauve.

[B]

Yeah, I like it.

[A]

It's very 1982. Well, goodbye.

[B]

No. And then one thing that makes you

[A]

happy, you do it first. I've been talking for so long.

[B]

I had a couple. But I think very simply, my favorite thing is that you have found gifts.

[A]

Oh, GIFs. Yeah. Say gifts. It's too late for GIFs. Yeah.

[B]

But I don't think anyone knew what I was talking about. Gifts.

[A]

Yeah. I thought you meant gifts.

[B]

No gifts.

[A]

I love gifts so much.

[B]

Yeah. And I know you didn't do them until, like, the past two months.

[A]

I think you know why?

[B]

Why?

[A]

I didn't understand. I didn't understand that you had to get the app.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Giphy G A P H Y. Yeah.

[A]

You just get that and it's already on your texting.

[B]

It's waiting for you. Nothing. There's no better response than a response in gif.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's just perfect.

[A]

It's very.

[B]

Need any thing you like, any face you're trying to make. Yep. It's so stupid and funny in GIF form.

[A]

And you.

[B]

The fact that you now, like, do it to me makes me so happy. Cause it's like. It's really funny.

[A]

Cause you did it to me forever. And it would make me laugh so hard. And I wanted to do it back, but I would be trying to do it. I would be going on to, like, Google and then look, putting the Word gif into the fucking search bar like the old woman that I am. It was making me insane. Stephen, did I ask you about it? Is that how I ended up getting that app?

[B]

No, I think you found it on your own.

[A]

Did I do it on my own? Oh, my God.

[B]

He was a big girl.

[A]

That's my favorite thing over this week is that I did it on my own.

[B]

Who's the big girl?

[A]

No, you know what my favorite thing is? And this could be. I'll go even simpler than your gifts, because the one I sent to you tonight.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Is stolen from Steven. It's my favorite gift of all time, and it applies to any situation. It's.

[B]

It was of kind.

[A]

Kardashian peeking around a bush. And it is so funny. And the first time Stephen sent it to me, I, of course, sent Stephen some text that was like, no, Stephen, go fuck yourself. Or some. Some obnoxiously jokey mean thing. And then the response was, Kim Kardashian peeking around a bush. What do you put in to look

[B]

for that Kim Kardashian bush? Oh, God, no, don't do that.

[A]

No, don't do that.

[B]

I think it's sneaky or sneak or something or she's. I think I want to see that episode where it's from. Yeah, I don't care.

[A]

I think I've seen that episode because they made Chloe go on a date, and then they all watched her from behind a bush.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

She was on, like, a weird, uncomfortable blind date and she didn't want to go. And Khloe and Kim. No, sorry, Wait.

[B]

Kim and Kourtney, Katrina, Kim and Maureen.

[A]

My favorite one made her do it and then spied on her and laughed at her, where it's like, that's one of the first episodes I ever saw where I was like, but you made her do it. So this isn't like. You're not. It's only funny if she wanted to do it, if it was her idea, but it was your idea, so you can't make fun of her.

[B]

So we hate the Kardashians and what they stand for, but we love the gifts they make. Here's the thing, the gifts are their gift.

[A]

Whatever the Kardashians thing is, you can't deny it and you can't fight it, because one time I went and laid down on my couch and turned on E accidentally. Nothing I would do intentionally. And there was a Kardashian marathon on, and I watched every fucking episode for, like, hours and hours.

[B]

It's amen. I watched every episode of fucking Nick Lachey and Jessica Simpson show.

[A]

Yes. Oh, that thing was brilliant, though.

[B]

So much. But that was brilliant. Brilliantly.

[A]

I know some of the people that worked on that. They were like comics.

[B]

What about Ashlee Simpson's show? That was amazing.

[A]

I'm not interested in Ashlee Simpson.

[B]

Well, what about fucking six years ago? Were you. Yes, yes.

[A]

When she was married to Pete Wentz.

[B]

No, it was. But way before that, it was like when she was like, I'm this famous person's little sister and I'm gonna do it on my own.

[A]

You know, she's like, eyeliner, eyeliner, eyeliner. Oh, my God, I'm fake punk.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good show.

[A]

But. But that. The original Jessica Simpson is like, with some gorgeous television, huh? So good.

[B]

Bad, honey. Guys, look and listen.

[A]

We've done it again.

[B]

And look. Okay, we're back.

[A]

Back. So as we said, this episode was originally entitled the Hague. Just one of the all time greats.

[B]

Why do you like it so much? Can I ask?

[A]

I think because we get. We got into a little system of how we were doing it. Like it had its own voice. And then this. This was just this insane. Like, almost like we're being diplomatic or political, where it's like, you could. I couldn't tell you what happened in the Hague if I had the full Internet and a half an hour, I would still come back with kind of not really knowing if we were naming

[B]

it today, something I understood. Maybe we would call it Goonies. Raise the bar. Which is good.

[A]

Also. You have to be brave. JetBlue. Just get up there and shop at JetBlue.

[B]

Oh, Red dawn situation. I think I like that one.

[A]

That's good. Or gifts are their gifts. I mean, about the Kardashians.

[B]

It was right there.

[A]

It was right there. That's a good one.

[B]

All right, well, thanks for listening. Let's say goodbye from the newly cleaned pod loft back in 2017.

[A]

You know, if you've ever tuned in to us because you were trying to waste time or just distract yourself, I feel like this is the episode for you.

[B]

Congratu. Fucking lations.

[A]

I hope we took you to a different planet.

[B]

Listen.

[A]

This was absolute madness.

[B]

All hail Marietta Jaeger.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And fucking live your life. Do get.

[A]

Try. Just.

[B]

Just.

[A]

We're all just Marietta. Try to do it Marietta style.

[B]

Like, don't do what we do, monsters.

[A]

Jesus Christ. No. No one's trying to do what we do.

[B]

And stay sexy and don't get murdered, please.

[A]

Bye, Elvis.

[B]

Oh, Dottie. Hi.

[A]

Oh, that was cute.

[B]

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