Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 18: Investigateighteen Discovery

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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Episode Title: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 18: Investigateighteen Discovery
Network: Exactly Right Media
Hosts: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Episode Number: 18
Release Date: May 19, 2016 (Revisiting in current episode)

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Introduction to the Rewind Episode

In this special Rewind episode, hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark revisit one of their early and favorite episodes—Investigateighteen Discovery. Launched on May 19, 2016, Episode 18 delved into two harrowing true crime stories that left a lasting impact on both the hosts and their audience.

Recap of Mary Vincent's Survival Story

One of the standout stories from Episode 18 is the incredible survival tale of Mary Vincent. Karen recounts Mary's harrowing experience with Lawrence Singleton, a merchant seaman who brutally attacked her in 1978.

• The Attack:
  On September 29, 1978, 15-year-old Mary Vincent was brutally assaulted by Lawrence Singleton in Berkeley, California. After being kidnapped and tortured—having both her arms severed with a sledgehammer—Mary managed to crawl three miles to safety despite her severe injuries.

  "Mary had to tie her shoes before escaping, but she was brutally attacked while vulnerable. She woke up tied up, naked, and later had her arms chopped off."
  — Karen Kilgariff [26:18]

• Survival and Recovery:
  Despite the unimaginable trauma, Mary survived. She walked naked and bloodied to a road where, after initial despair from passing motorists, a honeymooning couple found and rescued her. Her resilience led her to art school and the establishment of the Mary Vincent Foundation to support victims of traumatic crimes.

  "Mary described her attacker so accurately that Lawrence Singleton's neighbor recognized him and alerted the police. Singleton was subsequently convicted but was paroled after eight years, only to commit another heinous crime."
  — Karen Kilgariff [34:21]

• Impact on the Community and Law:
  Mary's case sparked significant outrage, leading to protests and changes in parole laws to prevent similar offenders from being released. Karen emphasizes the importance of discussing such cases to prevent normalization of horrific crimes.

  "People rose up and said, no, we don't have to accept this. It was a beautiful thing seeing communities take a stand against such injustice."
  — Karen Kilgariff [51:11]

Recap of Franklin Delano Floyd’s Crimes

The second story revisited is that of Franklin Delano Floyd, a notorious serial killer with a convoluted and disturbing history.

• Early Crimes and Escapes:
  Franklin Delano Floyd, convicted at 19 for abducting a four-year-old in 1962, had a tumultuous history marked by multiple escapes and violent assaults. His manipulative behavior extended to assuming false identities and committing additional crimes post-release.

  "Floyd was a violent pedophile who not only abducted acts but also attempted to hide his crimes, leading to further atrocities."
  — Georgia Hardstark [54:29]

• The Murder of Sharon Marshall:
  In April 1990, Floyd murdered his wife, Sharon Marshall, in a suspicious hit-and-run incident, further solidifying his reputation as a dangerous individual. Despite his heinous actions, Floyd was able to orchestrate the wrongful custody of a child, Michael Hughes, complicating the investigation.

  "He hit Sharon with a car and a sledgehammer, brutally killing her and then kidnapping their son, Michael Hughes, who remains missing to this day."
  — Karen Kilgariff [27:46]

• Ongoing Investigation and Legacy:
  Floyd's crimes remained under investigation for decades, with varying accounts and elusive evidence. His eventual sentencing to death in Florida concluded his direct threat, but questions about his other possible victims linger.

  "Floyd died of natural causes in 2023 while on death row, but his legacy of terror continues to haunt the memories of those affected."
  — Georgia Hardstark [72:06]

Hosts' Discussions and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Karen and Georgia engage in candid and often humorous dialogues, balancing the gravity of the stories with their trademark comedic interjections.

• On the Nature of Evil:
  The hosts delve into the psychological aspects of their subjects, pondering how individuals like Singleton and Floyd can commit such atrocities.

  "It's so hard to fathom a mind that deviates so far from what's considered normal. It makes you question the very nature of evil."
  — Georgia Hardstark [68:24]

• Community Response and Advocacy:
  They highlight the importance of community involvement in justice, as seen in the protests against Singleton's parole and the support for Mary Vincent's foundation.

  "Communities stepping up to protect others is a powerful message that true crime stories can inspire positive change."
  — Karen Kilgariff [52:49]

Community and Listener Engagement

Karen and Georgia also shed light on the vibrant community surrounding My Favorite Murder. Listener contributions, such as crafting merchandise and sharing personal stories, play a significant role in building a supportive network.

• Listener Crafts and Merchandise:
  The hosts express their appreciation for listeners who create cross stitches, metal stamp pendants, and other crafts inspired by the podcast.

  "We've got amazing listeners making killer cross stitches and keychains. Your creativity keeps our community thriving."
  — Georgia Hardstark [14:09]

• Social Media Growth:
  The Facebook group, affectionately called the "Murderators," has grown exponentially, becoming a hub for fans to connect, share, and support each other.

  "Our community has grown to over 8,000 dedicated Murderators who are passionate about the stories we share."
  — Karen Kilgariff [12:38]

Conclusion and Updates

The episode wraps up with updates on the featured cases and reflections on the evolving nature of true crime narratives.

• Mary Vincent Today:
  Mary Vincent thrives as an artist in the Pacific Northwest, demonstrating resilience and turning her trauma into a force for good.

  "Mary says, 'I'm just happy with life. I try to help others see through my eyes. You shouldn't give up hope.' Her strength is truly inspiring."
  — Karen Kilgariff [51:04]

• Franklin Delano Floyd's Fate:
  Franklin Delano Floyd passed away in January 2023 from natural causes while on death row, bringing a somber close to his reign of terror.

  "Floyd died on death row at 79, leaving behind a legacy of pain and unanswered questions."
  — Georgia Hardstark [71:01]

• Reflections on True Crime:
  The hosts emphasize the importance of discussing true crime to educate and prevent future atrocities, while also acknowledging the emotional toll it takes on both the victims and the listeners.

  "True crime isn't just entertainment; it's a way to shed light on the darkest parts of humanity and strive for a safer society."
  — Karen Kilgariff [51:28]

Final Thoughts

Rewind with Karen & Georgia serves as a poignant reminder of the enduring impact of true crime stories. By revisiting Episode 18, Karen and Georgia not only honor the victims but also highlight the significance of community and advocacy in the face of unimaginable horror.

"Despite the horrors we're discussing, it's for us—and our listeners—to find a sense of community and understanding."
— Georgia Hardstark [73:11]

Stay tuned for more insightful and engaging true crime discussions as Karen and Georgia continue to unravel the mysteries and stories that captivate their audience.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Mary had to tie her shoes before escaping, but she was brutally attacked while vulnerable. She woke up tied up, naked, and later had her arms chopped off."
  — Karen Kilgariff [26:18]

• "Mary described her attacker so accurately that Lawrence Singleton's neighbor recognized him and alerted the police."
  — Karen Kilgariff [34:21]

• "It's so hard to fathom a mind that deviates so far from what's considered normal. It makes you question the very nature of evil."
  — Georgia Hardstark [68:24]

• "Mary says, 'I'm just happy with life. I try to help others see through my eyes. You shouldn't give up hope.'"
  — Karen Kilgariff [51:04]

• "True crime isn't just entertainment; it's a way to shed light on the darkest parts of humanity and strive for a safer society."
  — Karen Kilgariff [51:28]

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Relevant Resources:

• Mary Vincent on "I Survived": A first-hand account of her survival story.
• Netflix Documentary: Girl in the Picture details Sharon Marshall's tragic story and Floyd's crimes.
• Mary Vincent Foundation: Supporting victims of traumatic crimes.

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Stay informed, stay safe, and remember to Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Calling all thrill seekers and mystery enthusiasts, have you checked out the new television series Cross on Prime Video? Based upon the character created by James Patterson, this is Detective Alex Cross like you've never seen him before. It's a cat and mouse edge of your seat thrill ride that will keep you guessing. Cross stars Aldous Hodge as Alex Cross, DC's lead investigator and forensic psychologist. With a serial killer terrorizing dc, Cross finds himself in a race against the clock to save the latest victim. Follow Cross as he navigates a maze of clues, uncovers dark secrets and corruption, all while someone from his past is threatening his family. You'll be rooting for Alex Cross and loving the killer soundtrack. Get ready to tune in and work the case. Watch Cross a new series only on Prime Video. Watch now. Goodbye. If you haven't started planning for the holidays, you're already behind.

[Unknown]

But not this year, because Shutterfly has you covered. Starting with personal holiday cards.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whether you're into classic seasonal vibes or a more whimsical hand drawn look, you'll find a design that matches your style perfectly.

[Unknown]

Shutterfly's multi photo layouts are perfect for everyday shots like candids, travel pics, or even school photos.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Want to make your card stand out? Try adding foil accents or metallic pre lined envelopes to make your cards extra special.

[Unknown]

You can also fully customize your card. Change the greeting to Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, or whatever fits your celebration.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And with Shutterfly's high quality printing and simple mailing services, you don't have to worry about the logist.

[Unknown]

They even offer free address printing and an easy address collector to make sending your cards a breeze.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen Every single year I'm like, we're going to do a holiday card this year. We're going to get all the animals in. It's going to be so adorable. And I always don't do it because I'm like, this is too hard. But Shutterfly actually does make it really easy. Like even I can do it. So get ready for our holiday card this year.

[Unknown]

The organization it takes to do it a Shutterfly is basically going, we understand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we can do that for you.

[Unknown]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, click upload, you're good.

[Unknown]

Find the perfect holiday card for [e-mail] and start customizing today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Enjoy 40% off your Shutterfly order with promo code MFM40 and send something meaningful this year.

[Unknown]

Get free shipping on qualified orders. See site for more details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's shutterfly.com promo code MFM40.

[Unknown]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello, hello and welcome to Rewind With Karen and Georgia.

[Unknown]

Rewind.

Rewind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I almost said a different podcast name.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, this is the other podcast. It's brand new.

[Unknown]

It's our Wednesday episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every week we go back, we're re listening to our first episodes, the early episodes, the deep cuts. And we're talking about what's changed. We're giving you any case updates. You know, it's a full recap show.

[Unknown]

Yeah, you know, you get it. Today we're going Back to episode 18.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was posted on Thursday, May 19th, 2016. And I think this is one of my favorites of the number puns we did. Investigate Teen Discovery.

[Unknown]

Pretty great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's pretty great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love that one.

[Unknown]

It's really hard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've always loved that one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's hard to argue with. It's really right there. It's for everybody. It pleases all people.

[Unknown]

I think now it's time for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To find a Trekkie. Your favorite child. Pick one. And a badass survivor to listen along with you. Because now we can all be day one listeners.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, I guess it's time now to listen to the intro. How we kicked off episode 18. Investigate Teen. Investigate Teen Discovery.

[Unknown]

Okay, right.

I can match your volume.

Can you match up here?

Yes. I was gonna sing. But you don't. You don't want that.

I just don't want.

What the.

Oh, yes, you do.

Don't make me sing. I'm mad at it. Elvis is getting the fuck out of here.

Everyone's a good singer when you sing like that. When you sing like a jingles singer, you're good.

Watch your hand on the.

Oh, shit.

You're already doing it. Okay, maybe we should get like mic stands.

Hold a mic like Marilyn McCoo.

Who's that?

The host of Solid Gold. You're too young.

I get. I get what you mean, but I don't know who it's.

Dionne Warwick held it like this too. We were just pinching it.

That's what I got.

Guys, are we on?

Oh, that whole thing was the opening of the show.

Oh, good.

Good for sure.

Quality. That's quality shit right here.

Maybe don't. We're trying to make sure that our mics. That the sound quality is legit.

What do I sound like here?

You sound amazing. Maybe don't. Maybe let's not. Let's try not to touch the cord too.

I know rules this week.

Maybe don't get comfortable.

Could you please sit up straight?

Yeah, maybe stand on one foot.

I was definitely way too loud at the beginning of last episode.

I've never Noticed that I cried in.

My car because it sounded so obnoxious, but I did. That was the day I had a pour over coffee. Oh, cold brew.

Coffee. Fuck cold brew. I think maybe a little lower because you look so uncomfortable.

I am uncomfortable.

Hang out. I have never noticed a weird. Like, I've never noticed it weird, but I'm busy laughing my ass off at us when I listen, so. You look so uncomfortable. Get comfortable. Just be aware. I think you're fine.

Okay.

Yeah.

Guys.

How's everyone? Happy?

Let's. Okay, we're gonna take that whole part off.

No, we're not. Welcome to my favorite murder behind the scenes.

Behind the scenes.

Behind the crime scene.

It's the. This is the director's cut of my favorite murder.

You know, a minute ago I wrote something down and I was like, cracking myself up by it.

Ye.

You wanna know what it was?

Yes.

Okay. Because. Oh, well, I guess we should introduce the show. You just did it.

I did. I did. And they know her name. I'm Karen Calgariff. That's the voice you're listening to right now is Karen Calgariff.

I think you have, like, a gravelly, sexy voice.

Yeah, I was trying to make it sound kind of sexy.

You stay sexy. Yeah, And I try not to get murdered.

Right. And you have a murder voice.

I fucking. My voice, man. I sound like a cartoon character. Like the like, female bully cartoon character.

Be careful of what you say because our voices sound very similar.

People talk all the time.

I know, but people have a hard time.

I appreciate that. Okay, so I was gonna say we should. We have to do. What's it called when you, like, do a wrap up in the beginning? Housekeeping.

Housekeeping.

But I said maybe instead we should call it crime scene cleanup. That's what you laugh so hard.

Well, you know, what is it?

This is the problem of having self esteem is you just think you're very funny.

Yeah. You're getting a real big head. There's so many problems with having self esteem.

Right.

This is one of them.

It's a spiral of liking yourself. And it's disgusting.

It is. It never goes well.

No. You need an intervention eventually.

You are definitely driving toward a brick wall.

But I'm. But I think I'm doing a great job driving that car.

That's right. You're like, check this out. I'm shifting into third. Boom. Reality hits.

But I am good at stick shift.

Me too. My father taught us it was very important that we learned how to drive a stick, not lug the engine, not grind the gears is very important.

I don't even know what any of that means because I never did it. No, that's not true. I used to grind the shit out of that thing, but I knew how to drive it.

Well, that's good.

Yeah, I think that's such a badass lady thing to know.

You know what? It's actually a prerequisite. Because then any situation that you're in, if you get into a car, it doesn't matter what car it is, you should also learn how to hotwire cars. You always have a way out.

Well, here's another thing. Did you watch the movie, the movie with Here I Go Again? No, you got it with Kirsten Dunst where it's the end of the world.

Yes.

Okay, so like, none of the cars start anymore because they're all electronic and computerized. And so once that shit cuts out, you're going to have to fucking hotwire a 72 dots in.

That's right.

And get the fuck out of there. And guess what? It's stick shift.

It's stick shift. If you get on a hill, you don't have to hotwire it. You take that emergency brake off, you throw it into second, you rev it, you start rolling down the hill and you pop it into gear and it will go.

I used to drive it, have a little Vespa. And you'd have to do that all the run, like, give it a running start.

Yeah.

Which was terrifying.

Yeah.

Fuck, yeah.

Yeah, you got it. Standard shift, everybody. This is the time learn it.

An end of the world podcast also.

It's much easier. It's one of those things where, like, you know, when you were little and you didn't know how to tell time and you're like, this is impossible. I'm never going to learn it when I was little. You mean recently?

It just takes me an extra beat. Yeah, you gotta think.

It's a thinker. Yeah, you gotta think about it. But yeah, driving a stick shift, it's an H shape, H formation.

Yeah.

First gear, top of the H, second gear, bottom of the first stick of the H, the middle part is neutral. Then you're going into third over at the top of the second stick.

But you know what, when it comes down to it, I mean, if you're getting, if you need to get the out of there, burn up that first gear and just, just go, just go.

Throw it into second. Because actually you can lug it a little bit in second. You can, but you get, you can get more speed. This is a very real thing. I have pictured in my mind right now.

I do, too. This is. I feel like we're helping one person every time.

We do. Every time. But also just get some, like, dude.

Yeah.

Who might even like you a little bit. Who would be willing to spend a half an hour in the CVS parking lot with you and just drive a.

Stick, shift around 10 minutes of that. Is giving him a hand job as a thank you.

Yeah, you. It's just your hand.

No, I mean you. Gross. What's wrong with you? All of that should get cut out for sure.

Okay, now. Starting now. Hi. Welcome to my favorite.

We're the worst people. Stupid best people.

We're the. We're just trying to help you and relax after a long day.

Sure.

Of work.

Yeah, we're doing it. I don't work, but we're doing it. You do kind of work and therapy today.

Oh, that's work. How was it?

Great. My new therapist is. I guess she's not new anymore. But you know when you. The times I'm like, my therapy is the best is when I go in there being like, I don't know what the fuck we're going to talk about today. I'm doing great.

Yes.

I'm feeling good. Like, I don't have a thing to, like bring to her. And then it's like the best day of therapy.

Yes. Because it kind of blindsides you.

Yeah.

Something comes out and then you're like, holy shit.

Because it can lead anywhere.

As opposed to like, here's this problem. I need you to help me walk through it.

Right. It's like, it's the background to what? To when you do bring her a problem, she's going to be like, here are the little things you've already told me when we didn't have anything to talk about that are the reason you're doing this fucking thing.

Also, things can dawn on you when you have days like that where you're talking and then you go, wait a second. That's why I got so happened. For real? Yes, you can. I was going to say, what was it?

It was all sex stuff. So I'll tell you after. About the fucked up porn I'm into.

Oh, no.

But I don't want to talk about it on the podcast.

Is this our rated X? We haven't really gone into sex that much personally on this. On this podcast.

I feel like that is not a necessary thing.

That's not our area. I feel like there's probably plenty of podcasts that do that. Even that handjob joke Was very off color for us.

There's gotta be high schoolers listening to.

This, which they love handjob jokes, though.

Oh, yeah. Okay. They know what handjobs are.

That's. Are you kidding me?

I don't. Fuck.

They're like Snapchatting them left, right, and center. All they do all day.

Housekeeping.

Housekeeping.

Okay. We have T shirts available at my favorite murdershirts.com. they're only available till June 1st, at which point the orders are gonna be fulfilled and then we're gonna come out with a new shirt. Probably like the beginning of July. But this is the last time for the time being that you'll be able to get this shirt. Yeah. So you should go get one. We promise that the first person we see wearing the shirt, we will hug and then murder. Because wouldn't that be funny?

Yeah, that's the ultimate prize.

And then thank you to the moderate. Okay. So on the Facebook page that we're madly in love with that we're now.

Up to 8,000 people. It's nuts now it's growing exponentially.

It's my home. Like, I'm so in love with it.

It's where I go first thing every morning. I really do.

It just makes me. It makes. It's made Facebook not awful. Yeah, it's the best.

It's all Facebook is to me.

Yeah. So we want to thank the murderators.

Yes, the murderators. Right. Georgia made that up earlier. I was really proud.

Thank you. Ari and Alex are main murderers and they are fucking killing it.

They're the OG Murderators. They are from the beginning.

Original murderer, Night stalker. Elena, Jesse and Kristen. There's an A N. I just want to make Kristen.

Kristan.

Kristan. But you. But you're all fucking. I love that it's all women. I love that it's fucking.

And I think some of the second phase murders are European.

Right. So they're like around the clock up on it.

Yeah. I think one might be in Australia. Right. And I think one might be in. Let's. I imagine her somewhere in Scandinavia.

Right. Oh, and then.

Then in a lighthouse in Greenland.

She only has a. She has to ride a bike to get Internet connection. Like a stationary bike. She's just, like, doing it.

Thank you so much, girl. She's a great.

Now that she's found us, there's also. Besides the shirt, there's a lot of. There's a lot of people on the Facebook page that are making like. They're just going off. Yes. And making their own crafts.

Murder crafts.

We Love. There's a girl who's making cross stitch of like, which I love when cross stitches. I have one that says bitch, please, with like flowers coming out of it. Like, I love when I like that. So her. Her.

Flossie. Is her name Flossie or is the other girl's name Flossie? I don't know, but one's name Flossie, and I love that name so much, it's genius.

Okay, one girl is the girl who's cross stitch. You can get. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. There's like an Ed Gein one. Here's the thing. Fuck everyone. Which I clearly need to buy. She is killer cross stitching. Which killer? Killer with a K. Cross with a K and then stitching on Etsy. Go buy her shit. She's in Indianapolis, which proves me wrong that I thought nobody lived there anymore.

Yeah, she does.

She does. And good for her. And you guys, thank you. You're fucking the listeners. You guys are.

You're killing it. And then I think it's. If cross stitcher's name is not Flossy, then Flossie's the one that's making the metal stamp pendants, right?

Who I don't think has an Etsy yet.

Oh, she's going to.

Yeah.

But she put a picture up on the Facebook page. And they're awesome.

They're the best.

Stay sexy. Don't get murdered right on your keychain or wherever you might want to put it.

Right. And I feel like, yeah, that's gonna be the next shirt too.

Gotta be.

Yeah, gotta be. People are clamoring for it.

Yeah, we are gonna get an official design going and release that mother. I'm feeling a little emotional recoil from telling my period story. I think it was a mistake.

We can cut it out. So stop talking about it.

Okay, bye.

Cause then there's gonna be no, like, recall and be like, oh, actually, let's leave that part in. Cause they'll know they fucking missed. And they're gonna be like, what is she talking about? I love that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is where the listener art starts coming into play. And those cross stitching and the quotes and the Etsy rears its head.

[Unknown]

It's. That's exciting.

Well, that's like a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The true community starts to build here. In that way, the community is becoming self aware and, like, becoming its own thing. And I feel like there was a time where on that Facebook page, people started less trying to talk to you and I or to the podcast or whatever, and they just started talking to each other. And I think that was around this time where it was like, oh yeah, we're. I'm gonna make this thing. Do you wanna buy it on my Etsy shop? Like that it became that where they were truly becoming a community, in my opinion. And it was pretty cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it like kind of exploded out from this Facebook group into like the wild of the Internet. And like other people saw it so that, yeah, it just was interesting. And this episode is a fucking classic. Like maybe one of our most popular episodes because of the story you're about to tell, which I had never heard. And of course anyone who listens to it has never stopped thinking about it.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So let's rewind to Karen's story from episode 18, the incredible survival story of Mary Vincent. Calling all thrill seekers and mystery enthusiasts, have you checked out the new television series Cross on Prime Video? Based upon the character created by James Patterson, this is Detective Alex Cross like you've never seen him before. It's a cat and mouse edge of your seat thrill ride that will keep you guessing. Cross stars Aldous Hodge as Alex Cross, DC's lead investigator and forensic psychologist. With a serial killer terrorizing dc, Cross finds himself in a race against the clock to save the latest victim. Follow Cross as he navigates a maze of clues, uncovers dark secrets and corruption, all while someone from his past is threatening his family. You'll be rooting for Alex Cross and loving the killer soundtrack. Get ready to tune in and work the case. Watch Cross a new series only on Prime Video. Watch now. Goodbye. If you haven't started planning for the holidays, you're already behind.

[Unknown]

But not this year, because Shutterfly has you covered. Starting with personalized holiday cards.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whether you're into classic seasonal vibes or a more whimsical hand drawn look, you'll find a design that matches your style perfectly.

[Unknown]

Shutterfly's multi photo layouts are perfect for everyday shots like candids, travel pics, or even school photos.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Want to make your card stand out? Try adding foil accents or metallic pre lined envelopes to make your cards extra special.

[Unknown]

You can also fully customize your card. Change the greeting to Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, or whatever fits your celebration.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And with Shutterfly's high quality printing and simple mailing services, you don't have to worry about the logistics.

[Unknown]

They even offer free address printing and an easy address collector to make sending your cards a breeze.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen Every single year I'm like, we're going to do a holiday card. This year we're going to get all the Animals in. It's going to be so adorable. And I always don't do it because I'm like, this is too hard. But Shutterfly actually does make it really easy. Like, even I can do it. So get ready for our holiday card this year.

[Unknown]

The organization it takes to do it, a Shutterfly is basically going. We understand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we can do that for you.

[Unknown]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, click upload. You're good.

[Unknown]

Find the perfect holiday card for [e-mail] and start customizing today. Enjoy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

40% off your Shutterfly order with promo code MFM40 and send something meaningful this year.

[Unknown]

Get free shipping on qualified orders. See site for more details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's shutterfly.com promo code MFM40.

[Unknown]

Goodbye. Should we get into the murder? Favorite murder? Oh, sorry. I don't know how to sing. As I mentioned earlier, they didn't know that was. Oh, here we go, guys. Here we go.

I'm going first this week.

I think you're first.

I think I am.

I'm going to get cuddled in.

Yeah.

I'm going to have this half a glass of whiskey of our drink.

Some of your whiskey. I wish I could. I drank all mine already. Before you were 30, it was up. Yeah. In 1997, I had my last shit. God, I was good at it.

My therapist told me that we're doing an experiment where I'm drinking two glasses of booze a day just to see how it goes. So I'm allowed to have two glasses of booze a day. Oh.

No more, no less.

Yeah. We're just, like, seeing how this goes. So it's almost like, what if you.

Don'T feel like it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Unknown]

Then I still have to force it down. Yeah. And this is clearly, like. This was two glasses of whiskey and one big cup.

Oh, that's fun.

Does that count as one?

It does to me.

And there you go.

If I was your therapist, hell yeah, girl. I had this realization when I was trying to think of this week's. Because I get very, like, when I look at the Facebook page, there's so many good cases, and there's so many people who are very passionate about the cases that are their stories or just ones they like or think are fascinating. There was a guy that tweeted me a case. His. His Twitter handle was at arkansawyer, so it was almost like Arkansas lawyer. And it was a case of a guy. I think his name was Bobby Lee Foster or Bobby Jo Foster, who killed his own mother, Edna, and decapitated her and put the head in the Local church and then took the eyes and mailed them to Eisenhower.

What in the actual fuck?

Yeah, it was crazy. But so I was kind of into that. Thank you for sending that. I love it. I mean, you know. But I had a realization that when we were talking about our kickoff murders, the ones that got us kind of into it, I realized that factually and date wise, I had an earlier one than Diane Downes and it. Because it happened in the Bay Area and it's this Lawrence Singleton attack on Mary Vincent and later murder of. So I'll just tell you about it.

Let's unpack.

Let's unpack this. It happened in 1978. So I was eight years old and this was on the news. It was like in 1979 is when he went to trial and all this stuff happened and it was on the news every night. My parents were livid. They talked about it all the time.

So you must have just been. You were there too.

Yes, because it was. We watched the news together as a family every night before dinner.

I feel like there's nothing more harmful for a kid than.

Yeah, no one knew.

I know it was back this was.

The late 70s where no one knew what was good or bad for children.

Totally.

It was all just like, eat your cereal, go outside, try to survive, come home and then we'll watch the news together.

It was a generation away from children after children being coal miners.

You know, it was like. It was that weird time in between coal mining and children being carried their entire lives until they get to college.

Right.

Essentially. So I'm the last of. The last of that generation. I lived. So here's the story. On September 29, 1978, a man named Lawrence Singleton, who was a merchant seaman. Always a bad job, that Richard Speck was a merchant seaman.

Oh, really?

Yeah. There. It's bad news. I think it's what happens when you're like super fucked up and. But you're so fucked up you don't want to join the army.

Right.

So you're like, oh, I'll go out on a ship for a while with a bunch of dudes.

Yeah.

So he picked up a 15 year old hitchhiker named Mary Vincent in Berkeley, California.

Honey.

Mary had run away from home. She lived in Las Vegas. Her parents were getting divorced. It was all fucked up. And she had friends in the Bay Area area and relatives. So she made her way up to the Bay Area, but she was homesick and she'd been on her own for a while. She had a boyfriend that was bad to her, she. She left him, Ran away. She just wanted to get back home, sweetie. So she is hitchhiking in Berkeley and a van pulls up and there are two people hitchhiking behind her. Now, just so you know, there's Mary Vincent herself tells this story on an episode of I Survived. It was season four, episode one, and it is epic. I know you don't like survivors. I fucking love survivors. And things like this where you get the firsthand account of something. This story is also insanely fucked up.

I guess if there, if she's. It's been that long, I can deal with it, right?

And she's. It's when they can tell their own story. They're not, you know that they're able. They're in charge of this narrative and they can tell you what happened. And.

Yeah, and like when it's a grizzled fucking bartender, like cafe waitress and she's like this, this is what fucking happened to me. I can deal with it. But when it's like some like college girl whose life is ruined.

No, you. Well, because here's the thing, the saddest part about it, but the truest part about it is it happens to a lot of people. So when you have one woman sitting there going, here's what happened to me. A, B, C and D, you not only get the. Don't fucking hitchhike. Keep your eyes open, pick up on context clues, you have all that. But you also have survive. And you can survive and you can come out the other end and help other people.

And it's okay to, it's okay to tell your story. Like, you don't have to keep this huge secret. There's other people who have been through similar or worse.

And, and you have to tell your story. It's part, that's part of healing, right? So. So a lot of what I have here is basically her first hand account.

Holy shit.

So the van pulls up and there's two hitchhikers behind her in Berkeley 78. And the guy that's driving the van says he only has room for one person and says it's Mary. Well, the two hitchhikers behind her go, don't get in that van because they can see into the back of the van. The whole thing's empty, there's plenty of room. But if a person's saying he only has room for the young girl, they go, don't take that ride. But she was so tired, she just wanted to get home. So she was like. And he looked like a grandfather.

Oh, really?

Yes, he's this big pot bellied, kind of grizzly old guy. He was like in his mid-60s at the time. So she's like, what's that guy going to do? So she gets in and she's really tired. She's been walking and hitchhiking for a long time. So she says, I'm trying to go back home to Las Vegas. He says, I'll give you. I'm going to Reno, but I'll give you a ride to Los Angeles. Which is that right there. What?

That doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't make any sense.

Why?

So she settles in and she falls asleep.

Don't do it.

Don't do it. She wakes up and they have gone east and not south when she finally sees a sign. They're somewhere out in Patterson. They're somewhere out by Modesto. They're on the other side of the five. There's a lot of.

For people not from here, there's a lot. Especially in the 70s, there's a lot of no man's land.

Yes. A lot of. Especially in the Central valley, which is where he drove her out to. It's just all empty rural farmland, roads, little hills with an oak tree on top. There's nothing. So she notices that they're going east. She freaks out, confronts him, says, what the hell are you doing? He says, I'm sorry. I'm an honest man. I made an honest mistake. Let me just turn around. He pulls around. He turns around, starts going down the road. And he says, sorry, I have to go. I have to relieve myself. He pulls the van over. She's getting nervous. She realizes this is now a bad situation. It's nighttime. He's down relieving himself. And she looks down and realizes one of her shoes untied. And she thinks to herself, if I have to run for some reason, and I could outrun this old fat guy, but if I have to do it, her, she's like, I gotta tie my shoes. So she gets out of the van too. She bends over to tie her shoe and she blacks out. He hit her in the head with a sledgehammer. She wakes up. She's tied up in the back of.

The van after a sledgehammer hit. She wakes up.

She wakes up. So he just conks her out. Yeah, she doesn't like, thank God she didn't die. She's. When she wakes up, she's tied up and she's naked.

Oh, fuck.

And he starts raping her. He rapes her all night and into the morning and the whole Time. She's of course, crying. She's 15 years old, crying, whatever. And saying, just set me free, please. I won't tell anyone. Just set me free. Sometime in the morning, when he's finally done, he pulls her out of the van, unties her and says, you want to be set free? I'll set you free. Picks up a hatchet.

No.

Out of the back of the van.

No.

Cuts off her left arm. She's screaming. Below the elbow. She's screaming, freaking out, going crazy. She grabs him.

Holy fuck.

With her right arm going, ugh. Freaking out. He takes the hatchet and he starts hacking off her right arm. What the fuck?

But the craziest thing to me is as you're telling this, I'm like reminding myself that she survived, but it doesn't fucking sound like she's going to.

I know, I know, It's. It's crazy. So she is holding onto him, but she falls backwards anyway. And that's when she realizes that her right hand has been. Her right arm has been chopped off.

Oh, my God.

So she's all, of course, in total shock, confused, losing blood, looking. And this is the most fucked up part of her story.

There's more fucked up than that.

This is it. Go. It peaks in fucked upness right here.

Holy shit.

She sees him. She's looking and like she can't understand what just happened. And she's looking at him and he is flicking his arm like this. He's flicking his arm out? Yes.

No.

She looks and her right hand is still holding onto his arm.

Oh, my fucking.

Ew. I just got. I gave myself chills and I know.

This story because you had your hand in like a claw, just like I did it.

So she passes out or she like kind of goes limp.

Sure.

She's bleeding, obviously, profusely losing blood, lightheaded, laying on the ground. So she just goes limp because she just doesn't know what to do. She's now in the presence of a monster. He thinks she's dying or dead.

Yeah.

He drags her body over to the railing and throws her over a 30 foot cliff. On the way down, she breaks four ribs and he drives away. Now, later on when the police catch him, which they. I'll just let you off the hook now, the police. Police catch him and they put together that the reason he did that is because he thought she'd be dead. And they did. He didn't want them to be able to get her fingerprints.

What did they. Okay, who found her? How did she get found?

I tell you now, please. So she's down in this fucking ravine, and she's laying there, and she's losing blood like crazy. And she wants to go to sleep, but she said that there was a voice in her head saying, you cannot go to sleep. You have to get up so they can catch this guy. So she puts her bloody stumps in the dirt and makes a mud pack. So she stops losing blood.

Oh, my God.

On both arms. And then she starts crawling back up the ravine 30ft. It takes her all night. Oh, no. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That was the morning he dumped her over in the morning. So she crawls back up the ravine. It takes her all day. She finally gets up to the top of the ravine and back onto the road at night. And then she starts walking naked, covered in blood, with two stump arms. She walked for three miles.

Oh, my God.

The first car that came up was two dudes in a convertible. And they saw her and they fucking sped away.

No. Yep.

Yes. And she said herself in this, I survived. She goes, I looked like something out of a horror movie. She's like, I didn't blame them at all because it was. I mean, beyond something you'd see in a horror movie. And on a far away. Like a deserted road in the middle of the night where there's no. This is out, where there's no streetlights, there's. You're like. She said she was walking by the light of the moon.

It was terrible. And in my mind, too. It's like, these two dudes are married men and they're gay lovers, and they're, like, on a clandestine romance thing. And if they stop to help her, they have to call the cops. They're gonna get caught together. That's just in my head.

That's very plausible.

So, like, hopefully these aren't monsters, these people.

I mean, here's what I'm sure of. They carry it with them to this day.

Yes, they do.

Imagine leaving a person like that.

And then they read the newspaper the next day, and they're like, look what we did. And she could have died. They could have saved her, and then she could have died.

But here's who did save her.

Who?

She walks a little further. A couple who was on their honeymoon.

Oh, no, no, no.

Who took the wrong exit and is driving around trying to get Back to the i5.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Unknown]

Which is close enough so that Mary heard the noise of the i5 all day and was like, I just have to get back up because there will be someone if I walk Toward that sound. So that's how she guided herself back toward civilization. These people grab her, put her in the back of the truck and say we're going to get you help. And she said she heard them speeding so fast she could hear the tire, tires screeching. They get to a phone.

Can I say real quick what half the people listening, that they're murderinos.

Yeah.

Dream honeymoon.

Exactly, exactly.

Like what are else you gonna do, fuckin play canasta?

Well, because imagine you're like, oh, I've married. I love him so much. He's the man for me. Now if the man for you was one of those guys in that convertible who's like, we have to get out of here. You'd be like, you get out of my life forever.

I bet they're still together.

100%.

Yeah.

They get her, they get to that pay phone, they call and they airlift her to the hospital.

Oh, you bet.

So it wasn't even an ambulance situation. They were like straight in, so.

Oh honey, the relief she must have felt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God.

[Unknown]

To be in, to be saved.

So she. Sorry, I'm on the next page already.

Because you're, by the way, I want everyone to know you're like fucking telling this. You're not even looking at your notes.

Because this, because I remember this happening when I was little.

Holy shit.

And I remember my mother being so livid. And she would talk about Lawrence Singleton, this disgusting piece of shit. She would talk about him all the time. Well. Cause I'll get into it.

I actually was all this was all these, were all these details on the news.

No, but it was a man who raped a girl, chopped her arms off and threw her into a ditch.

That's enough.

That was plenty. Yeah, because you can't. That's when it was like, oh my God, that could happen.

Totally.

That's real.

Even the word rape, like you don't even talk about like couples in fucking sitcoms didn't sleep in the same bed.

Right, exactly. Well, I'm not from the 50s, Georgia. Oh my God.

I mean that the Brady Bunch was the.

So.

Oh my God.

So she lost over half the blood in her body, but from her hospital bed she described a picture of him so accurately to the police sketch artist that Lawrence Singleton's next door neighbor saw it and immediately called the police. Even though she was friends with him and like knew him for years. She was like, that's Lauren Singleton. That's my next door name.

She's one of us.

So. Yes, exactly so. And I do have to say this. In the article that I found that a piece of information from. For some reason in the line, it said housewife and bowling expert.

Wow. I want their life.

They really described her to a T.

I really went, I want that life.

That's a pretty good life. So they arrested Larry Singleton, Lawrence Singleton, nine days later. I like to call him Larry Larry. And when he was questioned, Singleton told the police that Mary was a $10, that he was passed out drunk in his van and that his other friend Larry is the one that attacked her. And that there were two other hookers in the van at the time.

What a fucking monster.

Lunatic. So she testifies against him in court. Get a girl with two prosthetic. Her two prosthetic limbs on. She'd already been fitted for them. She was still a teenager.

I mean, that's an. That is a hard thing to do on its own.

Now listen to this. As she walks out after testifying against him, he whispers to her, if it's the last thing I do, I'll finish the job.

Oh, I was hoping she'd save motherfucker. Or like something at him.

No, no. Poor girl, she ran out. So In March of 1979, a San Diego jury convicts him of kidnapping, mayhem, attempted murder, forcible rape, sodomy, and forced oral copulation. And gives him the maximum sentence at the time.

Can I guess? No, go ahead. Sorry, I just keep interrupting it.

No, no, no.

Seven years.

14 years for all of that. For all of those crimes combined. Maximum legal sentence was 14 years.

That's like almost how old she was.

Yes, that's exactly right. So the judge who had to pass that sentence said, if I had the power, I would send him to prison for the rest of his natural life. So along with the particularly gruesome and callous aspects of the crime, the case became totally notorious because he was paroled after serving eight years in prison.

I just can't.

Okay, so this is when shit went off. Because that's when it started on the news every night. This guy got paroled. And it was like. My parents talked about it. People talked about it in the grocery store. It was like, how is this happening? And you know what happened is in 1983, they passed a work incentive law, kind of quietly passed it, so that they could reduce prison overcrowding, where a day was cut off your sentence for each day that the prisoner spent working at the jail.

Or you could make pot legal and get a bunch of fucking prisoners out of jail.

That's exactly right.

And make the murderers and rapists go there for fucking ever.

Why in God's name would you have a work incentive law applied to attempted murderer rapists? Well, this was back when they were like, rape. It was probably her. She probably asked for it. She was probably a $10 whore. Motherfuckers. So they announce that his release date. This is Ed Martin, who is the associate warden of the California Men's Colony in San Luis Obispo, where he was serving his time. His release date, Martin said if there is continued good behavior and work and no change in his programs will be approximately April 28, which was eight years, four months of time. And every one of the barrier went bananas. So here's what happened. They tried to parole him to Antioch, California. And the mayor protests the Department of Corrections. And so acknowledging the public outcry, the Department of Corrections agrees not to release Singleton and Antioch. So they try to place him with relatives in Tampa, Florida. People rise up in Tampa, Florida. And the Tampa chapter of the Guardian Angels, which was a big thing in the 80s, remember them?

Yeah.

They lead these protests and eventually Florida officials reject the pro league. So he can't go back to Tampa. Now if you're.

If fucking. If the hells. What is the Hells Angels?

No, the Guardian Angels.

Oh, what are they?

They were this. Oh, they were.

I thought you meant the Hell's Angels.

They were basically when the. In the 80s, when crime was crazy. It was basically at the end of the recession when things were kind of shitty. It was like back when New York was a total dump. The Guardian Angels were this group of basically. What do you call them, Like Mothers.

Against Drunk Driving type of thing.

No, no, no. These were. I can't think of the term for it.

It was time, by the way. They're not in any hurry.

Well, it's just long and I just want to get through the whole thing, but nobody. Thanks. Cocktails. Listen, take your time. Everything's fine. No, but, but it was the. They were like, when you're like a citizen that's taking law into your own hands. What are those called?

Like a citizen taking lawn here.

So they basically were like, we're taking back the streets. So they would go. They wore red berets and shirts that said Guardian Angels. They all knew karate. They all. They were all like muscled out dudes. And they would ride the subway at night to make sure that like vigilante. There it is. They were total vigilantes. And they basically were like their own gang, but a positive gang. So they just made sure that people didn't get attacked on the subway. And every city started popping up with their own group of the Guardian Angels. Okay, I dig it. Eventually, of course, they dispersed because I think they took things a little too far, as it usually happens. But anyway, they actually did some good stuff in the beginning where people. There were. There weren't enough cops and there was just a lot of crime.

Yeah.

So. So he has to come back from Tampa, Florida, which is where his family was. But they. Tampa was like, go fuck yourself. And, you know, Florida's kicking out. You're probably a big. Pretty big piece of shit. So then he. Where did he go? So then they try to release him in Martinez, California, and. Which is also in Contra Costa County. So the contrary. Contra Costa County Board of Supervisors and four city council members. When a temporary restraining order from a Superior Court judge barring the Department of Corrections for placing Singleton anywhere in Contra Costa County. So they're like, quit bringing that motherfucker back here. He's not allowed.

Yeah, Ain't gonna happen.

So now they try to place him in San Francisco, but police chief. Police Chief Frank Jordan, at the time, he's told that. That they're gonna bring Singleton to San Francisco for a couple weeks. And San Francisco wins a temporary restraining order barring him from San Francisco. So then they take him to Redwood City secretly. But reporters find out that he's there in a hotel and protesters surround the hotel. And the Department of Corrections has to pull him out of this hotel and get him out before the protesters rip him apart.

What a bummer to be one of those cops and be like, I fucking hate this cop.

Yeah, you don't wanna protect that piece of. So now a. A court of appeals overturned that restraining order, saying that Contra Costa county and San Francisco couldn't have him there. So then they tried to place him in El Cerrito, but Which is not in Contra Costa County. That's a little bit further north, I think. But the Contra Costa county officials find out that they're going to try to place him in El Cerrito. And they tell the El Cerrito. They tell the press in El Cerrito. So then protests begin there. So basically now everyone's telling everybody they're trying to place this piece of shit in the North Bay and everybody. So then they try to put him in Richmond, but the mayor finds out, and the officials are all like, fuck no, get him out of here. Then they try to bring him to a city called Rodeo, which I've never even heard of before, doesn't even exist. But people Find out. And a mob of 500 people gathers around this apartment and. And they actually have to take him out in a bulletproof vest. And he's escorted out of town by the sheriff's department.

Holy shit.

So it was. This is kind of that thing where, yes, this is the kind of the worst story ever, but also the greatest story ever, where like just the citizens were like, no, dude, like maybe that. Maybe legislature says what? That you can get out of jail. But we say no. So they moved him to Concord. 175 people gather at the hotel where they're keeping him there. Finally, the governor says, put a trailer on the grounds of San Quentin and he can live there until his parole is over.

Love it.

Jerry Brown, George Duke Major. All right, so that's what he has to do. He has to live on the grounds of San Quentin until his one year parole is up. Then he's free to go wherever he wants.

And they don't even. They're not even attractive.

Well, then there's just kind of nothing they can do because nothing's in the system about him. So he goes back to Florida, and when he gets there, they find out that he's there. People protest. A car dealer offered him $5,000 to leave the state. And a homemade bomb was detonated near the house that he was staying in even. But no one was injured, unfortunately. In 1997, a neighbor calls the police after seeing Lawrence Singleton attacking a woman in his home. And when the police arrive, they find the body of 31 year old mother of three, Roxanne Hines. She's also a sex worker. But I wanted to say the mother of three part first. So that people care.

Yeah. So that they know that she was so hard up for money that financial.

Problems made it so that she had to do this.

Right.

And then she got stabbed 12 times in the face and chest by this piece of shit. And when he answered the door, he answered the door to the cops with his shirt open and blood all over his chest. So they.

How many cold cases can be attributed to him? Like. So there's no way that it was 1 in 78.

Well, they say that the reason that he got parole the way he early like that was because he didn't have. He didn't have priors. Yeah, he didn't have. Which is not to say he didn't do anything, but that he didn't. He didn't have a record.

Still, I think cutting off a girl's arms and leaving her for dead is like worse than your prior for like aggravated Assault or whatever.

And I think you're right. It's not. That's not a first crime.

No.

At all.

Especially when you're 60, you know, like you're starting, you know.

Yeah. No way. But also if you're in the Merchant Marines. God knows what he did in fucking Malaysia or someplace where nobody. You know, you can do whatever you want.

See a Vietnam vet. That fucking half of those killings are for him.

Okay, so Mary Vincent goes to Tampa to appear at his sentencing and tells her whole fucking story. She describes her whole attack, the whole. The toll that the ordeal has taken on her whole life. Because, of course, it's been, you know, a terror. And she's, you know, she's gotten her life together a little bit, but of course, she just lives in constant fear. When he was paroled, like, she was doing fine and going to art school in the Pacific Northwest. Then he got paroled and she fell apart.

He said to her as she left the courtroom, I'm going to finish this.

If it takes the rest of my life, I'll finish the job. Like, yeah, why isn't that considered when he's. When they think he's going out for parole? So the jury deliberated for one hour, and he was sentenced to death because. Good old Florida.

Good.

So unfortunately, he died of cancer in the prison hospital. Instead of being. We're being very vicious in this. We really are in this one. But apparently what he said when he was sentenced, he said he denied mutilating Mary Vincent. He still denied it.

Not killing her, just mutilating her.

No, no, no. Mary Vincent is the girl whose arms he chopped off. He denies doing that, but he said about the stabbing of Hayes, I'm sorry about the death in this case. I'll have to carry it on my conscience the rest of my life.

The death, that's.

And the narcissistic move of. This is sad for me. On me, the Diane Downs move. So just to wrap it, Mary Vincent did win a $2.56 million civil judgment against Singleton, but she couldn't collect because he was unemployed, in poor health and only had $200 in savings.

Of course not.

So she did eventually get married. She moved to Orange County. She has two sons, and she started the Mary Vincent foundation to help victims of traumatic crime.

Oh, sweetie.

Yeah.

Oh, that poor girl. Isn't it crazy that, like, she would have been better off stealing a car and getting a misdemeanor than hitchhiking?

You can't trust old men that look like grandfathers.

And here's another Thing I was thinking about, like, when he. She had a bad feeling, he stopped to pee and get out of the car. The thing about that is, like, if you have a bad feeling, do what you need to do and apologize for it later. Like, steal the car and drive the fuck off. Apologize later if it turns out he wasn't going to kill you.

Right. Trust your gut.

Yeah. If you have to blow some guy off at a bar because he's giving you the creeps, but you don't wanna be rude, blow him off and apologize later if it turns out that he wasn't a creep.

Cause if he's not a creep, it won't be a problem later.

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's intense.

I know. It's crazy. And if you wanna see it, you can watch on. I survived Mary Vincent tell that story herself.

I might have to start watching that. The thing is about true crime shows is that I really don't like reenactments.

There's no reenactments.

Oh, okay.

It's the people telling their story. And they do. They start a segment with a picture of where it actually happened. And it's all straight to camera storytelling.

Okay.

It's pretty brilliantly produced. That's why I like it.

No, I did that. I could totally do that.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. That was a big one.

Yeah. Let's all take a collective breath.

Yeah.

Anyone needs to use the bathroom, go use it now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we're back. Karen, are there any updates on this incredible story?

[Unknown]

Not really.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Since it's been 46 years since this happened to Mary Vincent. Her name is different. She lives in the Pacific Northwest. She's an artist. She draws and paints, mostly animals and strong women, which I loved hearing. And Erin Brown found this quote from Mary Vincent and it said, she was recently quoted saying, quote, I'm just happy with life. I try to help others see through my eyes. You shouldn't give up hope. It's still a good life. There's so much out there.

[Unknown]

It's beautiful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. He served eight years and went on to kill another woman.

[Unknown]

Like, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, there's no world where that makes any fucking sense and is okay. And it's all the towns that were like, fuck, no, he's not coming here.

[Unknown]

Because they. Because that's what they do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because they knew, you know. So hopefully the sentencing is better these days.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think also the world is changing and I think this piece of, you know, people like to kind of hold forth on what they think about the morality of true crime and following true Crime. But I think there's a side of it that has to be acknowledged where these things have to be discussed and talked about so that that is not accepted as a norm. And that idea that this old man driving around in a van can ravage a teenage girl who's basically a child just trying to get home, ravage her, throw her away for dead and not really have to pay in any kind of equivocal way and basically have like a good old boys club be like, he's fine, don't worry about him. Will decide if he's safe or not when he's already proven that he's entirely not safe to be around other human beings, especially young girls. Like, there's just no it. Whether, you know, people get into like the morality of sentencing and spending time on jail. And I would never want to do it. True. But this feels so different to me in that way of like the story about this is town after town of people rose up and said, no, fuck you, this is wrong. We don't have to accept this. And that I is part of the beautiful thing. It was like people really actually took action.

[Unknown]

Yeah, definitely. And I think with the true crime.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thing too is like pointing at a wrong and getting more people to pay attention to a wrong. Like, you know, these tiny sentences for attempted murder.

[Unknown]

He thought she was dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was his point.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, well, now let's do your story. This is George's story from episode 18. The horrors committed by killer Franklin Delano Floyd.

[Unknown]

All right, my favorite murder. Okay, so I was scrolling through the Wikipedia page of mysterious disappearances as one does before bed.

Sure.

When you have insomnia. And I came across a really interesting case I had never heard about. And there's so many twists and turns and weirdness about this that I was intrigued and really excited. So I'm gonna tell this a little bit out of order. I'm gonna leave the exciting thing to the end because the whole thing is fucked up to begin with. So this is the murder of Sharon Marshall by Franklin Delano. Franklin Delano Roosevelt Floyd. Which is like no wonder you're a murderer.

Parents so close.

It's almost like making sure your kid's a narcissist by naming him almost after a president.

Yeah.

All right, so in 1962, this guy, Franklin Delano Floyd was 19 years old.

It's the worst name.

It's the worst name. Let's just call him Floyd. Was convicted of abducting and sexually molesting a four year old girl in Georgia.

Yeah.

Piece of shit.

Disgusting.

He received a lengthy prison sentence and within one year he'd escaped the prison, robbed a bank, was arrested. He served 10 years, released on parole because apparently four is not young enough to be fucking in prison forever. In one month of freedom, he was charged with assaulting a woman. And he got away. So in 1990, his wife Sharon Marshall was found dead in a suspicious hit and run. All right, so this is where it starts. He had sent his wife Sharon on a late night shopping trip for baby items because they had a child together.

Oh, good. Have a child with a baby rapist.

Right. I don't know if she knew that or not. Okay, so she was murdered on her way back to the motel they were spending the night at. She appeared to be hit by a car, yet there was a blunt force trauma to the back of her head. Enough to cause the death unrelated to the car accident. So after she dies, her child, Michael Hughes, which Floyd was a clear suspect in, kidnapped the kid. He was the two year old son, Michael Hughes. I'm sorry, that's not true. He put their two year old son into foster care and fucking hightailed it out of there because he was a suspect. The kid goes into foster care, the foster care parents love him and decide to start adoption proceedings for him. He like thrived there, where he got there, he was just like so developmentally delayed because this guy was a piece of shit. And Floyd was arrested on a parole violation. And then as part of the adoption process, the kid had a DNA test and it was compared to Floyd's. And it turns out that Floyd is not the real father to this little kid.

Whoa.

So when he's released from jail, he tries to regain custody and he can't because he's not the dad. Then on September 12, 1994, this fucking dude comes in to the elementary school where this kid is staying, holds, has a gun, takes the kid by force, gets him the fuck out of there, steals this kid. You should see these photos of him, he's such a creep. Not the kid, fucking Floyd.

The dad. Yeah.

So two months later, Floyd is arrested in Kentucky and the kid is not with him, hasn't been seen since. Floyd tells like differing stories. Some that he had drowned the kid in the motel bathroom after the kidnapping. Others say that he told them that he murdered the kid in the same manner. So he had admitted that to a couple people. Another person claims he saw Floyd bury Michael's body in a cemetery. Which is like, how do you witness that? And then you don't tell Anyone till the cops? I don't know. In his most recent contact with the FBI, Floyd's admitted to killing Michael by shooting him twice in the back of the head. He told him where to find Michael's remains, but it's been two decades since then and they haven't found anything. So that's the story of Sharon the mom and Michael the kid.

Okay.

Super shitty all around.

Yes.

And so the third incident is the murder of. Let's see, what's her first name? Shit, I don't know her first name. Oh, Cheryl Ann Commeso. So at the time of her hit and run death, Sharon is a stripper. But I mean, before I say that, I want to say that she went to college, she was going to be an engineer. She's a very smart person. I think something happened with her crazy husband. She's making money stripping, you know, it's not like. Not. There's nothing wrong with fucking making money stripping. And that's her career. But anyways, in 1989, one of Sharon's co workers disappears. She's 18 years old. Cheryl Ann. Someone had witnessed a angry confrontation with.

Floyd and the coworker.

Yeah, Floyd and the co worker. Commence. Commence Commeso. Cheryl. Let's call her Cheryl. So Cheryl disappears in 1989. Floyd and Sharon get the fuck out of town. It remains unsolved until her skeletal remains were found by a landscaper in Florida in 1995. And she was a citizen Jane Doe. No one knew who she was when the remains were identified. And then in March a year, the same year, a mechanic in Kansas finds a large envelope stuffed between the truck bed and the top of the gas tank of a truck he had recently purchased at auction, which is like, here we go, let's go. He finds.

Yeah, don't. I mean, just finding things stuffed in places is my dream.

Yeah, for sure. Like, you know where I think you can find them is when you go into like a weird bathroom and there's a. The seat. The toilet seat holder.

Yeah.

I think people like shove drugs and money for drugs in those. As like, I'm going to go in the bathroom and shove the drugs in there. I'm going to come out and you're going to put the money in there.

Am I making that up?

Because I've heard that before.

You don't mean in the toilet tank where the water is?

No, that too, but in the. Where the, where you pull the toilet seat cover off the wall.

Yes, yes, yes.

You know what I'm saying?

Yes. Behind the paper covers.

Exactly.

I see. I thought you meant in a private bath. No, I think you meant those pink. The pink furry cover that like your grandma puts on that matches the bath.

You know when you go into a gas station and they have the pink furry cover or like sometimes it's leopard print. Or a toilet.

You know those fun gas stations.

Yeah. Kicky. So the mechanic finds this fucking amazing find Inside. He finds 97 photos in the envelope, including many photos of a woman who was bound and severely beaten.

Oh no.

They traced the police, traced the truck back to Floyd of course. And the investigators compared the photos of the injured woman with commesso as well as evidence found with her remains. And the clothing was similar to what she was wearing. There was also furniture and belongings in the photos that were identified as Floyds. And the medical examiner had compared injuries seen in the photograph to the cheekbone that they had found at this doa. I mean this, this.

The remains Jane Doe.

So they were consistent. She had died from a beating and two gunshots to the head. Again, two gunshots. Looking at a pattern.

A kill shot. That's the. Was he in the army?

Oh really?

Uh huh.

Kill shot. Huh. I didn't know about that.

Two shots, two to the back of the head.

That's a thing?

Yep. That's how you just take someone out.

Then you have to even look at them in the face and.

Well, and also just. That's for sure. So it's one. There is a possibility some could weirdly live.

No.

2. No.

Yeah. Oh, right. Okay. So he. So Floyd has tried and convicted for this girl's murder. Thank God. Camasso's murder based on the photographic evidence found in the truck. Other photos found in the truck though show sexual abuse of Marshall, who was his wife who died in the hidden run. Right. I mean, yeah. This weird thing, his wife. But the pictures start and this is where it goes. Dun dun. Is the. The pictures of Marshall and being sexually abused start at a very early age when she's in her childhood.

What?

Right, okay. Sexually explicit poses of various ages, starting around 4. Of his wife, age 4. Yep. Of his dead, now dead wife. What the fuck is going on?

Uh oh.

Turns out Floyd met a divorced woman with three daughters and a son in 1974. When Sharon is like four. In the late spring of 75, Sandy the mom is arrested in Dallas for writing a bad check for diapers. And some people on the Internet like, how did that happen? Did Floyd take out all the money from the account and send her on a shopping trip? And the check you know, like maybe that's even set up when she's in prison or jail for 30 days. While she's there, fucking Floyd disappears with all three sisters. And the infant brother Floyd had been left to care which. Don't ever leave your children in the hands of a boyfriend. I don't care how fucking cool you think she is. No, don't, don't.

No one with the name Floyd, first, middle or last, please, no.

When she's released, she sees that the fucking children are gone. He had put two of the daughters in foster care. She finds them there. But the. But, but. Suzanne, I'm sorry, but Sharon and the little boy are gone and she tries to file a kidnapping charge. Wait, okay, here's the most fucked up part of the whole. The local authorities say that as the stepfather, Floyd had a right to take the children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi.

[Unknown]

1974, you fucking piece of shit. Okay, so Floyd raised Sharon as his daughter since early childhood. And if you go online, you can find a photo, like a portrait of him with her as like a 4 year old on his lap. DNA testing to determine her paternity when after she died, uncovered that she was not his daughter. And he gave a number of inconsistent statements regarding how she came into his custody. She. He told everyone that he had rescued her when she was abandoned by her biological parents. Which is probably what he told her as well.

Right.

The problem is that the little boy was. No one knows what happened to him, so it's not likely that he's doing well. So the earliest known record of her after that of Sharon was when she was registered in 1975 in an Oklahoma City high school. And if you look at her high school photo, she's clearly not high school age. I think he was kind of trying to fudge some stuff and like, she was too old. She's very young.

She looks very way too young.

Yeah, she looks junior highish. So I think he was like trying to throw someone off or something like that.

Try to establish her as being 18 as soon as possible.

Right, and registering her under an alias. They had a ton of aliases. Let's see. So they suspect that Marshall was born, that Sharon was born in the late 60s, kidnapped between 73 and 75, then they leave town again. She becomes his fucking wife.

Ugh.

Then, I mean, it's not even cool that she gets to like then figure out who she is. He fucking hits and runs her and kills her with a car and.

Wait, sorry, was that. Did he do that because she was there some overt reason?

We don't know. Maybe he found out that her son wasn't his because go back to the kid that was in foster care who. He kidnapped that son.

Right, right, right.

Turns out that the DNA testing should prove that it wasn't even his kids. So she might have been sleeping with.

Somebody she essentially cheated on. Right, this person that she didn't even want to be with in the first place.

And maybe he was even whoring her out, like, you know, making money, like. So we don't know what happened, but that wasn't his kid. That sounds like a pretty good motive to me. Fuck yeah.

That's insane. Wait, what happened to him?

Okay, so he's still alive?

No.

Yeah. He's the creepiest motherfucker.

He's in jail, though. Please.

He's on death row. Fucking God.

Jesus Christ.

I know. He's on death row for the murder of the commisso.

Oh, yeah.

So.

Oh, because they found her body in those pictures, right?

So thank God. Like, they weren't like. Well, she was a stripper, so he only gets four years. Like, she's. He's on death row. He's still under investigation into the kidnapping of her son and the mother, Sharon. Yeah. And like, after. After Sharon died, they did DNA testing on her and found out that she was the missing child that this poor fucking woman who dated a piece of shit.

Oh, my God.

To help her raise four children that she was dealing with on her fucking own. And then. Oh, my Lord. Yeah, I. What in the fuck? I mean, I never heard of this before.

That's crazy.

And he's still alive.

Wait, when? So sorry, When's like. When did she get hit by a car?

She got hit by a car.

When did he hit her? With a car.

Right.

And a sledgehammer.

Exactly. He. It was a hit and run in April 1990. Oh, yeah. So like, Reese. Yeah, Reese.

I mean, I guess I was. For some reason, I was picturing that this was like the 50s, right? Because it seemed like the kind of time you could get away. That's so.

In 1990s, hit and run took the kid by gunpoint. These poor, you know, this poor foster parents who were trying to adopt this poor kid who was thriving in their home. They were fostering him and they wanted to adopt him because they cared about him so much and they are stuck.

Well, and also this piece of shit takes him and then eventually kills him.

Yeah, like, just leave him with the foster parents.

But I mean, that's like that. That's the monstrosity of whatever that guy is I mean, narcissist, but just like the violent pedophile. It's like the highest strata of. In hell, basically. A violent, insane pedophile. It's so crazy.

What? I mean, it's so hard to think of a brain and a thought process and a mind that deviates that far from your own. I can't even picture it. It makes you wonder. I mean, can they picture what being normal is like? Are we normal? Is it? What is normal?

Well, it's not that guy.

No.

I'll tell you that right now. Yeah, that makes me want to start up a vigilante club called the New Guardian Angels. No berets. That's not cool.

Berets are stupid.

You just. I don't know.

What do we have? We need a thing.

So upsetting.

Um, it's actually funny because. So I'm. I'm listening to this book on tape from this audio book that I've been listening to forever called no Stone Unturned, about Necro Search who uncovers clandestine graves. It's this great book about these people who. Who find buried bodies. And like, when I'm driving in the car. Cause I get stressed out when I drive. I put that on or I put a murder podcast on. And then when I forget my book or don't have time to listen to a podcast, I put on like NPR or the news. And like, immediately I'm like, I can't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is so awful.

[Unknown]

I can't deal with it. Like, I even fall asleep sometimes to that. To like, murder stuff. And it's. I think. I think that's part of realizing why I love murder and these stories so much is that the real world and what's really happening and what I have absolutely no control over is so terrifying. And there's no control. But you can not walk alone at night. You can, you know, carry pepper spray with you. You can make sure you keep your doors locked. My door is not locked right now. I just looked over.

Well, but every. It's because every murder story that you read and all that information you gather informs you so that you know a little bit more next time.

Right? But you can't do anything like that. China is. Is being armed with nuclear weapons. You can't be like, well, next time I'm not gonna hang out with China.

Yeah, I think they've always had nuclear weapons.

Right?

But like, eh, what are you gonna do about that anyway?

Right?

That's just posturing.

That's the thing is what are you gonna do about that? Nothing.

No.

And that's terrifying to me, but in.

This, you can be like, if I ever get into a situation.

Right.

You know, you. It's. It's just being able to have your, like, your guard up better every single time.

Yeah. And if something does happen, you know, you. You at least tried or had some control over it somehow.

Right. You're informed.

Yeah.

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Any updates for this story?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, yeah, so actually, In January of 2023, at the age of 79, Franklin Delano Floyd died of natural causes while sitting on death row. What a piece of. But also in 2022, Netflix put out a documentary called Girl in the Picture about Sharon Marshall's story. And I know my storytelling in this episode is a little convoluted all over the place. The structure's not totally there. So definitely watch Girl in the Picture. Vince and I watched it, and it is just, you know, it's horrifying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I really want to watch that. I mean, look, your storytelling is as confusing as this case was, because this guy was all the fuck over the map. And I also think this is the thing where we started getting a little more comfortable talking while we were telling the story, like, talking about what we were talking about. So that's kind of a distracting thing that you and I do sometimes where.

[Unknown]

It'S like, hold on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That one word reminded me of a thing. And now we're over here. Whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But, yeah, I want to watch that girl in the picture.

[Unknown]

Definitely. You should.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. All right, well, it's time to wrap it up with a new title, Although I think we're both in agreement that it's Investigate. Teen Discovery is top tier.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I think it's one of the only ones I wouldn't change. Like, there's a couple good ones, but.

[Unknown]

I love this one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's a great one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

However, it could be called behind the Crime Scene, because as I'm setting up the audio, you say that it's behind the scenes, but I say behind the crime Scene because I love a thing that fits.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a similar thing, but you put.

[Unknown]

A different word in that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's fun. That's fun. That's podcasting. So it could be behind the crime Scene. It could also be collective breath, which is what Georgia says after we finish the Mary Vincent story, which is actually kind of another thing we do, which I do love, where it's like, yeah, that was horrible. And we don't have to make it any different than what it is, because that's kind of the point of what we're doing.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's all grasp hands and take a deep breath in life all the time.

[Unknown]

That's what.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Somehow, that's what this podcast is for some people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Despite the horrors that we're talking about. I mean, it is for me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is for me, too.

[Unknown]

It is for me, too.

There you go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the last couple people we've met have said similar things to us.

[Unknown]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, well, thanks for listening to this rewind episode. We're doing them every Wednesday. Just going back through the old moldy boxes that we have in the attic of this podcast. Why not?

[Unknown]

That's so true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Our parents are moving out, and they're like, go, Go clean your stuff out. You never. You said you were going to take it with you when you moved. That's been. It's been eight and a half years and you haven't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get that shit out of here. Well, we'd love to, but we're not just going to throw it away. Maybe there's something worth saving in there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Unknown]

We have to pick through it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's what this podcast episode is. But we also have Thursdays, regular episodes.

[Unknown]

Mondays, hometowns, you know, I mean, there's.

What more do you want us to do?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fine.

[Unknown]

We'll do five days a week. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Unknown]

Goodbye, Elvis.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you want a cookie?