Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show"

Release Date: January 29, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 30 of "Rewind with Karen & Georgia," hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark revisit one of their earlier episodes titled "The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show." This episode marks a departure from their usual numbering convention, offering fresh commentary, updates, and personal insights into the original content.

---

Recap of Episode 30: The F*ck Word Murder Mystery Show

Karen and Georgia open the episode by humorously addressing the new title, expressing relief at moving away from their traditional numbering system:

• Karen [01:14]: "You see, every Wednesday we release one of our old shows, but there's a twist."
• Georgia [01:34]: "We're recapping episode 30, which for the first time in 29 episodes isn't named after the number. Pun. Thank you, Jesus."

They nostalgically transport listeners back to August 18, 2016, the summer when the original episode aired, allowing both long-time listeners and newcomers to engage with the content simultaneously.

---

Discussions and Insights

Critique of "Stranger Things" and Similar Shows

The hosts delve into their skepticism of certain popular shows, using "Stranger Things" as a reference point:

• Georgia [03:00]: "How ridiculous. And if you guys say, what about True or Pet Sematary? Go back and watch it again. It's the corniest movie."

Karen and Georgia compare the filmmaking quality and storytelling techniques, highlighting a disconnect between nostalgic appeal and contemporary execution.

Review of the Show "Night of"

They transition to discussing the series "Night of," sharing mixed feelings about its content and execution:

• Karen [08:35]: "This is a very long, long show. I love that. Episodic. Okay, two things."

Despite some plot inconsistencies, both hosts commend the show's intensity and character development.

---

True Crime Story: The Yosemite Park Killer - Carrie Stayner

Background and Murders

Karen and Georgia provide a detailed recounting of Carrie Stayner's heinous crimes:

• Georgia [15:07]: "Amanda Riley was a mother, wife, speaker at her church."
• Karen [20:11]: "Yeah, Keep that in mind. If it's really hard to strangle somebody, it's very hard. So maybe don't do it."

Stayner's gruesome murders on Valentine's Day, 1999, involving the killings of Carol Sund, Sylvina Pelosi, and Julie Peloso, are meticulously detailed. The hosts highlight his lack of remorse and methodical approach to covering up the crimes.

Investigation and Capture

The discussion covers Stayner's eventual capture, emphasizing the role of forensic evidence and his inability to conceal his murderous tendencies:

• Karen [27:50]: "Yes, honey, she basically ended it by fighting down hard."
• Georgia [29:54]: "He fleed."

Stayner's trial, mental health evaluations, and subsequent sentencing to death are examined, shedding light on the complexities of his psychological profile.

---

Listener Submissions and Personal Stories

Tribute to a Courageous Listener

A heartfelt message from Liz C, a 19-year-old cancer fighter, is shared:

• Georgia [12:06]: "Liz C on the Facebook page says, I'm 19 years old and fighting cancer at the moment."

Karen and Georgia respond with empathy and encouragement, showcasing the supportive community surrounding the podcast.

Taylor C's Hometown Murder Story

Taylor C shares a chilling account of a near-miss encounter with the Yosemite Park Killer during a family trip:

• Georgia [29:33]: "I was watching Batman and Robin and we get a knock at the door."

The suspenseful narrative underscores the pervasive fear induced by Stayner's crimes, even impacting innocent families.

---

Transition to Clark Rockefeller's Story

Karen introduces the next true crime segment, focusing on Clark Rockefeller, a notorious con man with a dark criminal history:

• Karen [34:20]: "This is Karen's story about Clark Rockefeller."

Clark Rockefeller: The Master Con Artist

The duo explores Rockefeller's elaborate schemes, multiple identities, and manipulative tactics:

• Georgia [36:07]: "Wow. So, okay, so he shows up in San Marino, he's charming everybody."
• Karen [36:53]: "An actor, a producer, a director, an art collector, a physicist, a ship's captain, a negotiator of international debt agreements, and an English aristocrat."

Rockefeller's ability to infiltrate high-society circles, secure lucrative positions, and orchestrate heinous crimes, including the abduction of his daughter Ray, is dissected in detail.

Criminal Endeavors and Downfall

Karen and Georgia discuss Rockefeller's calculated moves and eventual downfall:

• Karen [53:36]: "It's like saying, if you check my shit, go fuck yourself."

His arrest, trial, and sentencing are covered, highlighting the interplay between his intelligence and lack of moral compass.

Impact on Victims and Society

The hosts reflect on the profound impact of Rockefeller's actions on his victims and their families, emphasizing themes of trust, manipulation, and the facade of affluence masking underlying evil.

---

Updates and Current Status

Karen provides recent updates on Clark Rockefeller's incarceration:

• Karen [66:16]: "After numerous denied appeals, Clark Rockefeller... is now in San Quentin."

Details about his ongoing sentence, parole eligibility, and his daughter's efforts to lead a private life are shared, offering closure and current perspectives on the case.

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Concluding Remarks

Karen and Georgia wrap up the episode by revisiting the theme of their retrospective series and expressing gratitude to their listeners:

• Georgia [67:59]: "Take what works for you. Leave the rest like in aa."
• Karen [69:36]: "Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?"

They reinforce the podcast's commitment to revisiting past episodes with newfound insights, fostering a deeper connection with their audience.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Georgia [12:06]: "Liz C on the Facebook page says, I'm 19 years old and fighting cancer at the moment."
• Karen [27:50]: "Yes, honey, she basically ended it by fighting down hard."
• Georgia [29:54]: "He fleed."
• Karen [34:20]: "This is Karen's story about Clark Rockefeller."
• Georgia [36:07]: "Wow. So, okay, so he shows up in San Marino, he's charming everybody."
• Karen [53:36]: "It's like saying, if you check my shit, go fuck yourself."

---

Conclusion

Episode 30 of "Rewind with Karen & Georgia" serves as a comprehensive revisit of their earlier work, blending humor with in-depth analysis of complex true crime cases. Through personal anecdotes, listener interactions, and meticulous storytelling, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark deliver an engaging and insightful episode that honors past narratives while providing fresh perspectives for their audience.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if there were a medicine that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Could heal almost anything?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That would be great, but they didn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Want you to know about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, who's they?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Some people are following me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I brought my tortoise.

[Georgia Hardstark]

From executive producers Mike Judge and Greg Daniels and co creators Joe Bennett and Steve Healy comes an animated comedy thriller about what it takes to change the world. Common side effects. Series premieres with back to back episodes February 2nd at 11:30pm on Adult Swim. Next day on Max.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Do you have a point of sale system you can trust or is it a real pos? You need Shopify for retail. From accepting payments to managing inventory, Shopify POS has everything you need to sell in person. Go to shopify.comsystem, all lowercase, to take your retail business to the next level. Today, that's shopify.com system.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello, hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You see, every Wednesday we release one of our old shows, but there's a twist. We add all new commentary, updates, insights, everything. The lives we've led, the people we are, the people we've become. The whole story we give it to you today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're recapping episode 30, which for the first time in 29 episodes isn't named after the number. Pun. Thank you, Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Phew. Thank God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Called one of the greats. It's called the fuckword murder mystery show. Find out why by listening to this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stay tuned and you can find out why we named it that. And join us today as we take you back to August 18, 2016. God, the summer of 2016. And now we can all be day one listeners together.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So let's listen to the intro of episode 30.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you ready?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm ready.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's have. Let's be really low energy this time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's be as quiet as we can.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. And fuck, I screwed it up already.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. You want to be quiet?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Yes. That's all I've ever wanted. Oh, God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi. Welcome to my favorite murderer. That's Georgia Hardstark.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Karen Kilgariff. The quietest. We're the quietest girls. We're so quiet on podcast. Thanks for. Thanks for being here. It's like spending an hour with us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thanks. Thanks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thinking about things with us, guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's so much going on in our.

[Georgia Hardstark]

World, not the least of which is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How Georgia doesn't like stranger things. Wha. Oh, there's someone at the door. They're here to hang you up from the highest limb of A tree.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't. I don't not like it. I have issues with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, let's hear them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it reminds me. Remember the old Stephen King movies that would be made of Stephen King books that would be on that were made for tv, like, thinner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And how ridiculous. And if you guys say, what about True or Pet Sematary? Go back and watch it again. It's the corniest movie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But that was a feature film and there was some scary shit in there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. I love that movie. But if you go back, you're like, oh, this is so corny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It doesn't hold up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. And it reminds me kind of of that. Of Stephen King, like, made for TV movies. And maybe it's kind of supposed to, but I also just. It reminded me of, like, someone who doesn't read sci fi. Made a show about sci fi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And, like, I feel like if it's the kind of movie where if someone who had read the book were watching it, which I know there's not a book, but if you were, you'd be like, why the fuck did they leave this thing out? This was the most important part. Like, I feel like I would have been screaming that if I had read the book.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, you know, I've found. I think. Because I like seeing. I'm at that stage where that kind of nostalgia works on me because it's from when I was 10.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I love the look and feel, but that other stuff took me out of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well. And it's really hard to connect. This is kind of like the Stephen King problem and, like, lost a lot of those things. When you get your big good idea that's gonna freak people out and hook people in. And then you try to connect that with kind of believable science or something grounded. It's very difficult to do. So it's like the Upside down, right, is what. Yeah, it was called. Like. But there was nothing that you just kind of entered it through this weird. I mean.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you could go get your kid. Like, it just. Yeah, there was a lot of. Wait, what in it for me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, and if you can walk into it, then why does she have to go into the thing to get in?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. And like, well, what is it? What is it made out of? Why did this happen? Why did this person exist? Yeah, why did they. How did she get out of the. Yeah, yeah. It's. This is another episode of Georgia Can't Suspend Her Disbelief.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, and it's a valid angle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I do, however, like, the night of. I've Gone through. I'm three episodes in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, well, when you get to the episode that aired last night.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

First of all, I keep falling asleep in front of the TV after watching Night of and then dreaming about Riz Ahmed all night, which makes me crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were shocking. Showing photos of him as a kid, like, as part of this show, and. But there were real photos of him as a kid, and I was like, I want that DNA inside of me. Like, I want that baby. That sounded gross.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the biggest kind of crush you can have when you want their DNA.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because once your DNA inside me, that's like a serial killer valentine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's just disgusting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a serial killer valentine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that's how I feel about him. I. I steal that idea from you. And I don't want to sleep with him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have a husband that I love who doesn't want kids, so I'll just have one from him with big eyes and, like, beautiful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

After he and I marry and have many of our own, and then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we get into a thing here? I guess we could make kind of a fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good for the podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's a very long, long show. I love that. Episodic. Okay, two things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like a play.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is like a play. I would watch a whole show of just John Turturro and about his eczema. Didn't know there were eczema support groups. That's fascinating. Those poor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those poor people, they can't date. They don't want anyone to look at them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was that awful?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's amazing. And then last night, yesterday when I watched it, Janet Colgate is now a character from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, the female lawyer?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I got so happy when I named.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her name, Janet Colgate.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When she came on screen, I said it in, like, in the accent that was said. And I think Vince was like, who did I. What did I marry?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, what's that actress's name?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You think I can remember her character from a cheesy movie from the 80s, but I can't remember her real name?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her name is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You get this. You always get this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, but it's Holly Elizabeth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nope, it's Stacey Nancy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stacey, Nancy, Stacy, Nancy. It's my favorite actress. Stacey Nancy. From such plays as Nancy Stacy. Nancy St. Stacy. That's the best stage name of all time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Taking it, stealing it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My favorite Murder with Karen gilgarra and Nancy St. Stacey. Oh, my God, that's good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm so Sweaty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you looking it up, Stephen?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What is it, Steven?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is the letter P in her first or last name?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Penelope?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not at all. God damn it. Then just say your name. It's Glenn Headley. Glenn Headley.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You said that as if it was on the tip of your tongue.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was in. It was nowhere near my mind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Glenn Headley.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Glenn Headley. She's such a great actress.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She is. But. Oh, her name. Steven Ray Morris. Thank you for that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, anytime. That's. That's like one of those white WASPy names I would have never gotten. In my world, girls can't be named Glenn.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I've definitely never heard that before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's a family name. I'm sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sure it is. That's on a crest somewhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But. So two thumbs up for the night of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Watch it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're not talking about this. We're not talking about stranger things anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's gone off. Did you like the ending that they left it open, obviously, for a second season.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm gonna admit I fell asleep at some point in the later episodes and I can't remember how it ends.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They ended it in a way that was. There's just like no satisfying ending. Can I tell you, because do you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Think they're gonna be a season two?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, Nancy and Steve are still together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But she didn't love him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Does she?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She doesn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Does she love fake Ben Schwartz? That's all I could see when I saw him. Did you see that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's exactly what he looks like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He looks so much. He's like wasp. Ben Schwartz?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. He looks like if Ben Schwartz got put through a rock and roll machine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everyone look at Ben Schwartz. I promise, I nothing wrong with him, but I just couldn't see that character.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But sorry. She goes back to him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like I just. I should have spoiled alerted that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's a big spoiler alert.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Excuse me. I feel like I just burped really loudly and, like, without warning anyone or saying excuse me before or after. Excuse me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Excuse me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Excuse me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I say, can I read you my favorite tweet that we've gotten on the. My favorite murder Twitter account?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Always. This is Tweet Corner with Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tweet Corner. Welcome. Why did you just. The theme song.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mimi, the unsung cat of the Heartstark household. She sings the theme song to Tweet Corner. Meow, meow, meow, meow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mimi's gotta have her spot in the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, this is it. She's come to shine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ready?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mimi Meow, meow, meow, meow. She's totally asleep. Someone on Twitter named Trash Panda irl. I love it already. That's not a real person. Read. Read what? Her name is. Oh, Tween Sensation. Tween Sensation is her handle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Trash Panda IRL is her. I don't know name. I don't know Trash Panda. And on her. On her Twitter account. Sorry, but I just noticed this. Her header picture is a picture of Barb, and it says, in memory of Barb. See you on the other side.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's incredible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Illustration of Barbara from Stranger Things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tell us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, Trash Panda. The best way to bring it all around. So she tweeted at us and said, my dad keeps calling your show the fuck word Murder Mystery show because he can't remember the name. And I cannot stop laughing at that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Say it again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My dad keeps calling your show the fuck word Mystery Murder Mystery show because he can't remember the name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

First of all, I can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If my dad heard a podcast where girls were saying the F word, he would pull the stereo out of the car and throw it out my way. I swear, if my dad ever hears this, he's going to call me with such a stern tone. And so I love the fact that Trash Panda IRL's dad is even listening to it at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He sounds like my dad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I think we might need to change the name of this podcast to the Fuckward Murder Mystery Show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I try not to do this, but someone who makes the memes needs to get our logo and change it into say it one more time because it makes me so happy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Fuck word Murder Mystery Show. It's just beautiful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can I read you something that's probably going to make you want to cry?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Liz C on the Facebook page says, I'm 19 years old and fighting cancer at the moment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ready to cry?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My dad and I listen to the podcast on the way to the hospital and back. Oh, it's a great way to keep my mind off things. Except now I'm scared to get murders. Lma. I can't wait for the new shirts to come out. I'm definitely going to be wearing it to the hospital. Love all you Murderinos. And then there's 200 comments, including mine, that says your next shirt is on the fucking house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's her name? Liz.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Liz. Yeah. Liz.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, Liz, you fight the good fight, girl. You get in there, you do your fucking chemo or however you're taking care of this business. And get it taken care of and get it out of you and many years of this stupid bullshit to come.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, the podcast or cancer?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, none of that. Only the podcast. And then general fun things in life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Murder, cancer. You're gonna be the smartest person you know because you've dealt with this thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you're gonna have a great perspective on life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I actually know many cancer survivors. And the cool part about it is, once you get through that, all that bullshit of like, that girl took my brush and now I'm going to try to ruin. And you don't do that. Sh. You're like, oh, I understand what loss is, and I understand the gift of life that we have right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And my family, who was there for me when I like that we were able to get through this together. The fact that her dad listens to that on the way that listens to this bullshit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry we cursed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stay strong. We love you. We're thinking of you. Oh, we're back. Thank you, tween sensation and your dad for that amazing title suggestion. That's amazing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then, of course, you better believe that some awesome Murderino created our logo with this brand new title. It's. We'll put it up on the Instagram and on all the socials. It was Jason Klein.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jason Klein was like, the wife's out of the house. The kids are asleep. You better believe I'm making you a logo. It's the best.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so good. It looks exactly like it, apparently.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We really loved Stranger Things. I don't remember having that sort of passion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't either. The first season, I think, was fucking excellent. And that's why maybe it was the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Newness of the style. And then it truly has been on for seasons and seasons.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Mystery. 80s mystery with, like, great clothes, music, Winona Ryder. Yes. The scenery is just, like, spot on. There's, like, a missing child aspect to it, which is always exciting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Somebody like that. Look, a young girl with a shaved head who looks like she's in a daze with a bloody nose. Boom. I'm in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. What is this? I'm hooked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What happened to her?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, well, it's time to get into one of. Oh, God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is kind of an epic true crime story because it is connected to another true crime story, which is like, those are very rare. And. And this one is one of the worst. So let's listen to Georgia tell the story of the Yosemite park killer. Carrie Stayner coming to ABC and Hulu.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amanda Riley was a mother, wife, speaker at her church.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then she got diagnosed with cancer. A beloved young Christian woman fighting a battle undeserved. We thought she was God's gift, but she was a liar.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why would somebody fake cancer?

[Karen Kilgariff]

From the number one smash hit podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was only a matter of time until Amanda's whole world came tumbling down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're not going to believe this. Scamanda premieres Thursday night, January 30th on ABC and stream on Hulu. I think you're first this week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Am I first? Yeah. All right, settle in, Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get ready to hear about something we've talked about, we've touched on before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But we never delved into.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Yosemite murders. Carrie Stayner, as we know and we've talked about Carrie Stayner. Here's just like the beginning of the fucked up Edness. Carrie Stayner was the big brother of Steven Stayner, if you'll remember, in 1972, was kidnapped and held captive by a child molester named Kenneth Parnell. Carrie was the older brother and he was 11 years old when it happened. Yeah, when it happened. And Steven the brother was held captive more than seven years before escaping. That itself is a fucked up story that you guys should look up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So awful. And this was one of our earliest episodes. We were trying to remember the name of that the made for TV movie, which is called I Know My Name is Steven.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we talked about it for way too long and we're still getting people that are tweeting at us and sending us emails saying it was called I Know My Name is Steven. It's like that happened six months ago.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, when we talked about that, that was the first time I found out that these two were brothers. Because I knew about Carrie's murders and I knew about Stephen's kidnapping, but I didn't know they were connected. And that just makes, just. It makes. It boggles the mind, you know, in a way that's like more than just when you think of a serial killer and you're like, how does your brain do that? And we have this added piece of fucking childhood trauma in there also.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It makes me think this poor family, like whoever is left standing, it's just like, how much can some people take those parents? Yeah, it's so much.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, so the year after Stephen came back, I'm gonna call him Carrie. Carrie's uncle was murdered and Carrie was living with the uncle at the time. But no one considered him a suspect. And Kerry would later claim that his uncle molested him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cut to 1997. Carrie was hired as a handyman at the Cedar Lodge Motel in El Porto, just outside of the Highway 140 arc rock entrance to Yosemite National Park. So just outside Yosemite. Cedar. Cedar Lodge. The weekend before February 1999, he was having these murderous fantasies that had become so intense that he knew he was going to murder someone. He prepared a murder rape kit containing a rope, a roll of duct tape, and a serrated kitchen knife. And later a gun and a camera. And as far as we know, other besides his uncle, which may or may not have happened, this is his first. These are his first murders. Okay, so On Valentine's Day, 1999, Carol's son, who was 42, her daughter Julie, who was 15, and Sylvina Peloso, who was 16, were his first victims. Carol was initially leery of Carrie when he knocked on their cabin door, saying he had to fix the fan in the bathroom. She talked him through the window and didn't want to let him in and only did so after he said he'd go get the manager to, like, confirm it. And she was like, no, no, no, no, that's okay. You know the way people do when.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They give you the double confirmation of like, oh, don't worry, I'll go do the thing you want me to do, Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, if you say that, then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, if you say you're going to do the thing I want you to do, then you must be legit, right then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, yeah, all right, I'll do it. So. But once inside, he pulls out a.22 caliber pistol. He tells them he's desperate, quote, and orders them to lie face down on the bed. He bounds their hands with duct tape, gags them, and then he took the two girls into the bathroom. He strangles Carol with a three foot piece of rope later, saying in his taped confession, I didn't realize how hard it is to strangle a person. It's not easy, but I had very little feeling. It was like performing a task.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, Keep that in mind. If it's really hard to strangle somebody, it's very hard. So maybe don't do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's harder than one thinks. So after putting her in the trunk of her rented Pontiac, he goes back to the girls, cuts their clothes off, and then he strangles Sylviana in the bathroom. And then he sexually assaults Julie in the family motel. In the motel room. And then wraps her up and ties. He ties her to the bed. He says he felt like he was in control for the first time in his life. And he cleaned up the crime scene so well that it appeared that the women had checked out and left. When the. When the people came to check. When the staff came later to check, to see if they were there, they had detected no foul play. Let's see. He even wiped his hair off the bed sheets. And then when the FBI agent asked on tape why he did that, he replied, I watched the Discovery Channel.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi. That's all of us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Oh, yeah. Everyone's getting real smart about forensics together, good and bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, for sure. So at 4am he takes Julie out of the motel and drives her away in the rental car with her mother and friend in the trunk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she's still alive?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I don't know. I don't think she knows that those two are dead and in the trunk because he kind of. There was two motel rooms that he was going between. And I don't think she ever saw the bodies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She just thought she was separated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, so she says. He says, I didn't know where I was going or what I was doing. I just kept driving and driving. And he said about Julie. She was a very likable girl, he said, crying on tape. She was very calm. So Don is approaching. He turns off at Lake Don Pedro and carries Julie up a dirt path to a small clearing overlooking the water. I told her I wished I could keep her, he said. Then he sexually assaulted her again. Finally brushed her hair and fanned it out on the ground beneath her head. I told her I loved her, he said. And then he slit her throat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't want her to suffer the way the other two did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A too late, asshole.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Like, I think, because he. He choked them manually, he was thinking that it was taking longer, so he slit her throat. Thinking he was comparatively. Yeah, like, thinking he was being compassionate. So he hides her body and he drives the car with the bodies in the trunk as far as he could into the forest. Then he takes a cab back to Yosemite, pays with the fare with the $150 he stole from Carol's purse. Two days later, he returns to the car with a can of gasoline and scratches. We have Sarah on the hood with a pocket knife. And then he lights the car on fire. Then he drove two hours west and dumped Carol's billfold on a Modesto street corner to fool the police. This is near where you're from? Kind of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kind of? It's the Central Valley, where we're more on the coast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. So more than a month later, the remains of Carol Sund and Pelosi were found in the burned out rental car abandoned along a logging road. And six days later, the FBI received an anonymous letter with a crudely drawn map and a message. We had fun with this one. And following the map, the searchers found Julie. The detectives began interviewing employees of the Cedar Lodge Motel where the first three victims had been staying just before their deaths. One of the employees was Carrie, but he was not considered a suspect at that point because no criminal history and remained calm during the police interview. Fucking psychopath, right? Oh, my God. FBI agents and local police rounded up a bunch of meth heads and sex offenders and told the tourists and residents that they were confident they had the killers in custody. No, that. Okay, so another woman disappears on July 22nd. This is Joey Ruth Armstrong, J O, I, E. Who is 26. She's a pretty redhead who worked for the Yosemite Institute teaching children about nature. Aw, sweet angel. She worked at the. Let's see. Was alone in the isolated cabin where she lived when Carrie came upon her. Man, we can't have anything. We can't even live alone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't. Well, but living in a cabin alone in the woods.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but guys gonna do it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Guys get to live alone in the cabin in the woods without getting murdered? For the most part, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they're guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what I'm saying. It's not fair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I know. I'm. I'm more. And I'm still in the motive. If you're going to live in a cabin in the woods, then pull your gun out anytime someone approaches your home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know. Or.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or big dogs. Big, angry, scary dogs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Krav Maga. I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, no, I get it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't be all chill.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I wouldn't want to live. I like living in a big city where there's just people everywhere. Yeah, on top of you all the time. So, according to the interview, Carrie confronted Armstrong at gunpoint on the front porch of her cabin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, he had a gun?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. He told her it was a robbery and forced her into the cabin and covered her mouth and bound her hands behind her back with duct tape. Then he put her in his sports utility vehicle. Suv.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I could have just said, that's an suv.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. Someone needed an extra word count in their newspaper piece. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you also draw a picture?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Page five is just one big.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I copied a couple of these sentences, and that was one of them. And now I'M like, that guy just needed a higher word count for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He said, I lost control of myself, and I lost control of her. Let's see. He said, when this started out, I had no intention of cutting her head off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which he later did. Spoiler alert, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He says he has no intention of cutting her head off. I had no intentions of killing her, even the first time I saw her. Yeah. Right then I started thinking about it. It was in the house. There was nobody in the house with her. And she kept walking out by herself, and she watered the plants, and it was obvious she was taking off and getting ready to go. That's when I started talking to her. So the assistant U.S. attorney. Okay. In court papers, it was said after he had driven a short distance, she dove headfirst out of the wind, through the window, out of the moving truck, and still bound with duct tape, ran through the woods toward the nearby community of Forresta to get help.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hell, yeah, girl.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Good for you. Fight your fucking last fight.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, I don't know if that was the right saying. Well, Carrie ultimately subdued Armstrong. She fought so crazy and with such passion that Stayner wasn't able to do his normal cleanup job, like obsessive cleanup job. He disposed of her beheaded body near. In a nearby stream, and the head turned up 27ft away in a hurry. He fleed. And a close source.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He fled.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He fleed. No, he fleed, Karen. Don't fucking correct me when I say let her count.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let her count.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He fleed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry to correct you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you're right. He fled. A close source, close to the investigation. Oh, my God. And thank you for pointing that out. No, I did not catch that. Says it was a fight from start to finish. She tried to get away, and she almost did get away. And those several minutes of struggle left behind a lot of evidence. Her determined fight for life denied him the chance to cover up the crime scene. And it led to his capture and undoubtedly saved other lives.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, honey, she basically ended it by fighting down hard.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She fucking fought so hard that he lost it. So in his haste, he left behind footprints, and basically his car was seen around the area. It was really distinctive. The tire tracks were as well. And so the vehicle was traced to him, and he was arrested. And during his interrogation, he confessed to all four murders. He pled not guilty by reason of insanity, and a doctor testified that he had mild autism, obsessive compulsive disorder, and paraphilia. At one point during the trial, the judge, Thomas C. Hastings, had to leave the Courtroom so he could compose himself in private because the testimony was so up. He returned several minutes later, red faced and misty eyed. A judge. The circumstances of this case are horrendous and devastating. He said before announcing the sentence. Kerry was found sane and convicted of four counts of first degree murder by a jury in 2001. He was sentenced to death and is still in San Quentin. He claimed after his arrest. So everyone's like, did you, did you get these murderous tendencies because of the stuff with your brother and all this like horrible stuff that happened? He was a kid. But he said after his arrest that he had fantasized about murdering women since he was seven years old, long before the abduction of his brother.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So what are the chances like those two traumatic fucked up things are gonna happen in one family?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So awful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. And then I went on Facebook and found a hometown murder from a reader, so I'm gonna read it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Taylor C. Says, In June of 1999, I was 11 and my brother was 8. My family and I went on a road trip to Yosemite from la and all caps stayed in the Cedar Lodge Motel. This is for everyone. This is right between the murder of the three women and the murder of a single woman. Like months before, like months in between.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Around 9:30 at night, my brother and I were watching Batman and Robin and we get a knock at the door. My mom looks through the peephole, sees some dude and asks what he wants. He says pizza delivery. We had already eaten, so we knew no one had ordered a pizza. My mom tells him as much and he insists that we did. My mom tells him that he must have been mistaken, but he keeps insisting. After a certain point, my mom walks away and assumes he did as well. Several minutes of knocking later, my mom calls the hotel management. He must have heard her on the phone because when they showed up, he was gone. My mom filed a police report, but nothing really ever came of it. When I. I think when they caught him, she be. She was briefly interviewed, but because she didn't get a good look at him, she wasn't useful in the case. To think my brother and I could have died while watching Arnold laying down some truly excellent ice puns. Because they were watching. Where'd it go? Batman and Robin fucked up. Shit. Was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was it. Did she say it was just her mom? It was her brother and her mom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Her and her brother and her mom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So like he spotted like moms with kids?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he must have targeted them, man, but why would you do it again in the Same. I mean, I guess you didn't get caught the first time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you didn't get caught.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're cocky.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he still has the fantasy, like he still has. It's the compulsion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then there's sometimes that thing of like, maybe you wanted to get caught.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Well, it surprised me when you said that he cried when he was talking about that first girl.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, when. That. When. During the trial, when a lot of the stuff is being discord. When he was listening to his own testimony, he would. He would plug up his ears and cry like he couldn't listen to it. Even though when he was giving that information during the interrogation, he was like. Like dead. You know, emotionally dead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So either that was just for the. Just for the show, for the jury.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or, you know, maybe he was on anti psychotics or something at that point and understood.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or if he was like. Yeah, he was like. Hadn't processed anything when he was confessing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, we're back. Georgia, are there any updates for this story?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, there are some. You know, in before today's episode, I was reading a bunch of articles about everything. Cause I am so curious personally about any other murders he may have committed that we don't know about. And there's just still no information about that whatsoever. So that's kind of. I mean, I just. I feel like it has to be there, but. So Carrie Stayner is now 63 years old. He's still incarcerated at San Quentin. And as I mentioned, they're looking into him for five other killings dating back to the 80s. And there's just. Including his own uncle, and there's still nothing. And he's never been charged in those cases. And then the FBI later revealed that Carrie Stayner originally planned to murder his then girlfriend that he was dating at the time of these murders and her two children. And he attempted three separate occasions, but was derailed when he saw another person on the grounds where they lived, leading him to find his first victims at the Cedar Lodge Motel instead. And actually, one of the little girls, one of the daughters of the then girlfriend has come forward and talked about him as like the perfect, you know, stepdad type and that they had no clue whatsoever, of course. Wow. You know, and then her horrible survivor's guilt that she had and just how awfully it affected her life. It's really moving. But yeah, in general, that's just like just such a fuck story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just. It's so dark and so odd the like. Because I think someone in this Story. He was arrested and then someone asked him if he got his murderous tendencies because of what happened to his brother. And he was like, no, I've been fantasizing about murder since I was 7 years old.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So dark.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just terrible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. I think there's a really good documentary out there about this too, if you want to check it out. All right, well, let's get to your wild story. Wild. Also heartbreaking. This is Karen's story about Clark Rockefeller. All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you ready to transition?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Always.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because mine, I actually this. I was watching this documentary this weekend about this guy that I'm going to talk about, and it's very entertaining. Even though he is also a murderer, he is more a con man, which I actually kind of adore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're like a mobster who won't kill women and children.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're like, you know what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, when you can like pick and choose the bad. Like, this is the kind that I like. Where for the most part now he is borderline personality, I think. Extreme narcissist. They have all kinds of. You know, the psychiatrist talked about what he was in court, but. And basically what it was was he was a guy who grew up in Germany as a very awkward teen. In this documentary, they talk about how he. When all their friends would go to the lake every summer, he would always go, but he would be fully dressed up and he would never. They never saw him in a bathing suit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, this is Hitler.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That man's name was Mr. Adolf Marie Hitler. No, this. He was. Well, he was born Christian Karl Gerhardtschreiter, but he had many names in his long con career. He also went by the name Chris Chichester, Kris Crow, Chip Smith, and finally, Clark Rockefeller, heir to the Rockefeller. You know this guy Clark Rockefeller.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's the documentary called?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's called My Friend Rockefeller.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I never got through it. So tell me everything it is here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's worth getting to the part where Clark Rockefeller or Chris Chichester or Chip Smith or Kris Crow is my favorite because he. When he was Kris Crow, he claimed to be a relative of Cameron Crowe. He. He does all these lies that are just small enough. They're big enough to impress you, but small enough to be believable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it is masterful. And he's a really legitimately IQ style, intelligent person. But he also doesn't really have any morals. So most of the time everything's fine. Cause he's just trying to get money and like work for himself and get what he wants. But fair enough.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And doesn't he make like everyone happy around him too. Like everyone thinks he's so funny and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Funny for a little while.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think the limit's two years that people are happy around this guy. Then he starts getting real irritating. And that's when he gets kicked out of houses, fired from jobs, what have you. But so this is basically how it goes. He grows up as an awkward teen in Germany. He has a group of friends. And in the documentary, the friends get interviewed. And what I loved is one of the friends goes, I love that he tricked all those rich Americans. And that part made me go, oh, yeah, that's true. He really did get away with huge, huge lies for a really long time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So here's basically how it went. He also claimed to be. These are all the things he claimed to be. An actor, a producer, a director, an art collector, a physicist, a ship's captain, a negotiator of international debt agreements, and an English aristocrat. Gee whiz, he did it all. So when he was 17, he met an American couple who had pulled off and asked him for directions on the side of the road. And he met them, got their names, and then when he wanted to go to America when he was 17, he used their names on the like, entrance documents to say that they had invited him there and he was gonna go live with them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Smart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This was a one off meeting on like the side of the road. And those people are also in this documentary. It's pretty awesome. So he comes to the United States and he goes to Meriden, Connecticut, and he finds the family of a backpacker he met once on a train in Germany.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't even talk to person sitting next to me on an airplane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have a hard time talking to people I've known for 20 years.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Much less asking people if you can go stay at their parents house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. I asked Vince if I can like eat some of his chips because I feel bad about it. I can't imagine me like, can I stay at your place?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We met once and just weird and uncomfortable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So he explains to them that he is from a very wealthy German family and that he is in America. Like, he's a foreign exchange student. And can he stay with them? Because he's gonna be going to the local high school. Basically he starts going to high school in Connecticut and basically his whole thing is he wants to be American, he wants to blend in. He becomes obsessed with Gilligan's island and he starts talking like Thurston hall iii.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's Cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when he appears in this documentary, that's who he's talking like. And it wasn't until I was reading this article where they mentioned this specifically where I started laughing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause they don't talk about it in the documentary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He does talk about it, but they talk about it like it's an inside. He goes, the guy who makes the documentary who was friends with him brings it up, but they don't. Like Clark Rockefeller kind of brushes it off. Like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he totally sounds like him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he's talking like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God, that's perfect.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he's basically saying it's the funniest. But also it's that thing where I don't like to usually I don't like to listen to killers especially I never watch anything where the serial killer is talking. I don't give a fuck what that guy has to say. He's evil. This guy's different though, because he's a con man first and foremost. Even though, yes, he's a bad person killer, all of that. But he is a fascinating mind because he was smart enough to, as a teen con all these people. So he goes to this high school, he decides that he wants to be an actor. So he heads west, but he makes it as far as Wisconsin and he decides he's going to go to the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee. So once he's there, he decides he needs to. He's been in the United States long enough where he needs a green card. Basically he needs to become a citizen. So he decides he's going to marry a local 22 year old woman who he thinks explains to her that he needs the green card because if he gets sent back to Germany, he will have to fight in the Cold War on the Russian front. Now if you knew anything about anything, I mean, and I barely know anything about anything, but when I read that I was like, hey, wait a second. Pretty sure the Cold War didn't have a front because the Cold War was all about tensions and basically threats.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's no such thing as.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was no Russian front in the Cold War. I mean, there were places to go, there were bad things happening. Definitely. He. If the idea was that he was going to get sent back to like East Berlin and have to spy on his neighbors. Yes, horrible. But there was no Russian front.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Prisoner of war because of or not a prisoner of war of accused of war crimes or something like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like a political prisoner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But there was no. The Russian front was from World War II. Yeah, that was A bad. A bad place to be.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Anyway, she fell for it and married him. And the next day he left for California.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I was like, was she. Was she in agreement and fine with it. But then later I read that she filed for divorce in 1992, 11 years later.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What? Maybe she was like, needed him. Maybe she's like, a lesbian and, like, needed to appease her family.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cover story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I didn't even think about that. I was. I immediately wrote the story of she was just heartbroken and, like, pining in Milwaukee. Oh, for this fabulous European that bailed on her the day after because it said their wedding. So it sounded like it wasn't just the basics, like city hall, sign some papers, like they had a wedding.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A little crazy. All right. So he. Or maybe she, like, is like me and is just bad about paperwork and doesn't get shit done in time. She's like, oh, that's right, I have to get divorced.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'll do it when I meet someone else. Maybe she's done.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll do it when I have good reason that she's on Tinder. Swiping, swiping, swiping.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he heads out to California. Now, this is. It's so fascinating. He goes to San Marino. Now, I don't know if you've ever been to Huntington Gardens. Oh, you're from down here. You know, San Marino is like. So Pasadena is a rich area that very few people I know live in because it's like old money rich. You know, you have to live out of the city. San Marino is richer than Pasadena. It's the city nestled up right next to Pasadena where all the mansions are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's gorgeous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's crazy. So this is a guy who's in his early 20s, like college age. He's moving to LA to be an actor, and he moves to San Marino to get. So it doesn't make sense. San Marino, I looked it up. It was rated more expensive than Beverly Hills and Malibu to live in. So it just is nonsensical for a young actor type to live there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But that's what he was about. He was like a total. He was Thurston Howell iii. And he was trying to go become that person in, like, a very real way. So he got. But he rented the guest house that was in one of the least nice houses in all of San Marino. There is actually a slightly shabby part which is just basically not million dollar homes. And in one of those houses, a woman named Dee Dee Sohus Had a guest house on her property. Dee Dee reportedly was an alcoholic who was always dressed in a housecoat, which sounds like, hey, sister, high five.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Dee Dee had a son named John who was 5 foot 5, super into dungeons and Dragons, Coke bottle glasses, and was married to a woman named Linda, who was a six foot tall redhead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They sound like fucking our type of people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They are. They are our type of people. They lived in like the house adjacent. So it was almost like this little compound. And Clark Rockefeller, at the time, his name was, let's see, his name here was Christopher Chichester, which is the dumbest made up name of all time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That sounds like when I said, what was it? Nancy Saint. Nancy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nancy Stacy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That wasn't as bad as Chichester.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's not as bad as Chris Chichester. Just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's like. You stuttered three times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, throw Morses in there, you dork. So, okay, so he shows up in San Marino, he's charming everybody. And what he tells them is that not only is he a computer expert, a film producer and a stockbroker, he is also the nephew of Lord Mountbatten. So what I kind of do like about this all is all the people that get tricked by this guy are people who are label horrors and status horrors. So anyone that's like impressed by. Impressed by someone talking like Thurston Howell III and saying, I'm related to Lord Mountbatten.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where like in my family, if you said that, it'd be like, well, go do the dishes. It'd be like, really, Lord Mountbatten, can you go get some more beer out of the downstairs refrigerator? But it's a lot of people. And especially that's why he was going to places like San Marino. You go to places where people work in those worlds and those are the people that are most impressed by, you know, you're all rich. Well, I'm a blue blood. Well, I'm a royal. I'm actually royalty. There's someone that can come in and beat them at their own game. What's more interesting than that? So the locals said he was a whiz at everything. He proved especially popular with the women who were very charmed by his royal bloodline and his courtly manners. One of the women said he knew everything about everything and he was just fabulous. So it's not just a. An act. He's really getting away with it. And he was very, very smart.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sounds like it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So in 1985, tragedy strikes. This is two years after Chris moves into the so Huss's, you know, house. Dede's son Jonathan and his wife Linda go missing without a trace. Chris tells everybody that they told him that they were gonna go to Europe. The family got a postcard from France, supposedly from the couple after the disappearance, but its authenticity has been questioned. And so soon after they disappear, Didi Sohas disinherited her son, who was beloved to her up until that point. The police think that she was convinced that he had abandoned her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And after, when Dee Dee died, they found that $180,000 of her estate had been looted. Her entire estate. Sorry. Her entire estate was worth $180,000 and all of it had been taken.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's so sad. So Dungeons and Dragons.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dungeons and Dragons. I just say that like it's. I mean something by it. I know Dungeons and Dragons, but we know what we mean. In the late 80s, police pull Christopher Chichester over in Greenwich, Connecticut. He's driving Jonathan Sohas's truck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The police. He leaves the area before police can interview him. I don't know what that means. If he's like, oh, well, thanks everybody. Thanks for pulling me over. Great to see you. And just drives away. I'm not sure. Or if they meant like come to the neighborhood.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sounds like the neighborhood. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just weird because if you've got him there and he's driving. So maybe they just had the information that it was that truck and they didn't put it together till later. Yeah, but I looked it up. Greenwich. In the year 2000, Greenwich was the third wealthiest town in Connecticut. So he's just going east coast now? He's going to do this on the east Coast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Big money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So he rents a post office box in Greenwich under the name Christopher C. Crow. Ccc. He loves those. C. He does. He literally walked into the Indian Harbor Yacht Club like he owned the place.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this is a rich town that has a yacht club. And he rolled up on in. Here's how he was described. He looked like he walked out of a magazine. He always had his Burberry winter coat, Burberry umbrella, very fine cotton button down white shirts with CCC monogrammed on the pockets. For Christopher Chichester Crow. Always pristine, always perfect.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sounds like what you wear whenever you go out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep, I do have my button down cake LK shirt on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm so hot. Someone else said he's talking to you as if he's smarter, wealthier, more connected, more everything than you, no matter who you are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he, he's just, just playing the rich game. And beating them at the Rich game. Because I think Thurston Held the third was the richest man on the planet. So if that's who he is, he's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he sleeps with a woman so that basically his inn in Greenwich was this yacht club. He starts sleeping with a woman who ends up getting him this really high level job in town at a broker dealer firm. I don't know what that is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I cut. My eyes were skipping over the part where it got into like finance, but basically a huge finance job. You have to take two tests to do this job. One called the Series 7 and one calls the Series 63. It's seven hours of questions.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he passed it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the shit?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he's not. He's a very, very, very intelligent person. So now you know the brain that's being applied to people. A memorizer, an absorber of personalities and information and the kind of person that will tell you the perfect lie. He's Lord Mountbatten's nephew. He's not anybody's son. There's nothing direct. So. All right, so he stays at this job for two years, but he's super. People don't at first. It's interesting that they have this royalty working there. After two years, they're sick of hearing him talk. And he did the ultimate wrong move, which was the boss, the guy that hired him, who was the president of the company, wanted to access his own computer. And Chris wouldn't tell him how to do it because he thought, if I'm the only one that knows how to do it and you don't know, I will never get fired. Instead, the guy in charge was like, get the fuck out of here. And somebody else is going to teach me how to get into my computer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, from there he gets a better job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he gets fired from that job and then he gets hired at a place called Nico. I don't. It. It's another one of these, like, Wall street jobs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Karen, this is not our universe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It. I'm not interested in it. I don't like it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't care. But essentially he does great there too, for a couple years. But he. A couple people were onto him. This is all in. In the documentary because he would ask. He'd ask a question like, do you. Have you ever sold one of these? And the gu asked the question to is in the documentary. Who's like. That'd be like asking a dentist. Do you know what a bicuspid is? Like, it's one of the basics. So that guy was like. I was pretty sure something was going on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then, of course, by the end, everyone's just. He's bragging and he's, you know, an asshole to everybody. So he gets fired from there. Then he goes to another company, a bigger company, so he gets a better job. Each firing, he just is failing upwards. But this is the job where they finally do a background check. Oh, no, sorry. Two years after he got dismissed from the first place, they finally look him up. They run his Social Security number, and the Social Security number that he gave was David Berkowitz's. The Son of Sam.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shut the fuck up. That is the coolest part.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's amazing. So it's kind of like saying, if you check my shit, go fuck yourself. But no one ever did until after he left.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit. That's cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's crazy. So on this third job, someone at the third job finally looks into his background while he still works there and finds out that he is a person of interest in a missing persons case in California.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How did that guy feel when he saw that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, probably nervous, but stoked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Excited.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then hungry because it was right before lunchtime. Who knows? So the Greenwich police and the Connecticut State Police show up at this job. But that day, Christopher Chichester. No, sorry, Christopher Crowe. Now, Christopher Crowe didn't show up for work that day because he was onto them. He knew. But he called in to say he needed time off because his parents had been kids. Kid kidnapped in either Pakistan or Japan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come. But just say you don't feel well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well. And also that's where your lies are getting a bit big.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, pick one. Yeah, it's Pakistan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But you have a hangover. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or you're. Yeah, you. You broke one of your teeth and you're out for a couple days. You're. How about your bicuspid? So he disappears from Greenwich, Connecticut, and he reappears in New York City, 1992. And where does he go? Where did John List go when he had to start all over in a new town? The church.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Church.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Church.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Church.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You show. Say it with me. Church. You show up at church with your song and dance and you have a built in community of people who are going to trust you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Keep your eyes peeled, churchies. So he rolls up. This is now when he has begun. I say that as if that's something that's important. This is now when he's become Clark Rockefeller. So he's in New York City. And he's introducing himself as a Rockefeller.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That seems like something you'd want to introduce yourself anywhere but in New York City.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, but here's the thing. He knows the difference. So he specifies to these people at this church that he is from the Percy Rockefeller side, not John D. John D. Is the one. He's crazy rich. Percy still is super rich, but not John D. Level. So he. He always goes right under.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, he goes in with the claim. That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Believable enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. We're still talking millions of dollars, crazy old American blue blood money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It still would impress people like my mom. Oh, he's a rockofan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My grandmother used to say, like, she'd go pick that penny up off the floor. We're not the Rockefellers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was like a total grandma saying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She also said a lot of racist stuff that I won't repeat, so don't listen to her. She was a good person at heart. It was just the times make America great again. All right. He claimed to have gone to Yale, like, when he was 14. He had a Yale scarf with the blue stripes. He said he had one of the J boats from his grandparents, which was a classic 30s sailing yacht.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I do, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, don't we all? So basically, what he learned is that if you joined private clubs in a big city and they're all like, clubs, no one's ever even heard of the lotos and stuff like that, where I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm clearly working classes. You can get. Will never be no more clothes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We'll never be asked to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, they're not gonna ask us. No, I don't think so. But this is where the Vanderbilts and the Whitneys and the Roosevelts and the Rockefellers, they've all been socializing since the 1800s. So he learns the kind of language of private clubs and those people. And then all of his lies become believable because he's speaking their language, saying the stupid shit that they all say to each other over cucumber sandwiches. It's all whispering about cash.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Transactions. Lots of trends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bonds, Bonds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

War bonds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

War bonds. They're polio.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Polo.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Polio. Polo. They meant polio. Polio.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You meant the disease.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, because Roosevelt had that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You got to talk about it, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where am I?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. So. Oh, sorry. I lost my place, and I'm hallucinating from the heat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm so sorry. It's not here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's nothing you can do, so. Oh, I was on the totally Wrong page. I tried to do that scrolling thing that I do. All right, so, okay, so he married in 1995. He marries a woman that he met through St Thomas Church, this church that he went to. And she was a Harvard MBA who rose to be one of the youngest partners in history at McKinsey. I don't know what that is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Law firm probably.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She had a $2 million salary. She was like legendary businesswoman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He meets her at church, they hit it off and they get married. He has a way with the ladies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He explains to her that none of his family is gonna be at the wedding because there had been an argument and he had disinvited all of them. So he has no family there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Red flags.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he marries into her family and they have a child named Ray, which I actually like that name for a girl.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ray.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ray. R E I G H. Oh, that's cute. He nicknamed her Snooks, which may have been something Thurston Howe III called his wife.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Snooks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he'd insisted on raising her and educating her himself. I would love to meet and talk to her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God, she's the coolest.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So anyway, they ultimately get divorced and she, the wife has to pay him $800,000 in alimony and he won the white. But she. Sorry. She won the right to raise Ray in London. So in 2008, a court supervised visit in Boston. Rockefeller kidnaps Ray. Oh, no. So she's seven years old. He's meeting up with Ray and the court appointed like, social worker basically. And he runs up, pushes that woman over, grabs the little girl and jumps into a car and drives away. The social worker actually ran after and grabbed onto the, the back bumper of the car for like a little bit, trying to do something about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But don't worry, he was, he lived for this little girl. He just wanted her in his life. He wasn't gonna harm her in any way. Everyone in this documentary says it. And like they would never. He worshiped her and he. She was everything to him. And they. And he got caught two weeks later.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But there was. He. He had set up a new identity in Baltimore. That's where he was going to become Chip Smith, a professional yacht captain and catamaran designer. But he got caught immediately. He was. In 2009, he was convicted and sentenced to four to five years for abducting his daughter and two to three years for the assault on the social worker who did get injured by that SUV that he had waiting. But we'll circle back around now because in 1994, the new owners of the Sohas's house in San Marino were digging to build a new pool and they found two bodies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Deep, deep underneath the ground in the backyard at the Sohas's house. House. And it was. The family members said the bones matched Jonathan Sohas's general description, but he was adopted, so they. They couldn't do a family DNA match.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. So she adopts this kid and he's this like, great nerd and she loves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Him so much, but she's kind of a boozer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then he takes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then he finds love in a six foot redhead. Aw. And they're kind of this mismatched couple that are making it happen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then she thinks he just leaves her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's the saddest thing I've ever heard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So forensic evidence showed that the victim, who was Jonathan, had been struck in the head two times with a rounded blunt object, then stabbed six times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

His body had been cut into three parts and the body parts had been put into book bag from the University of Wisconsin and from usc where Chris Clark, all these people, he had actually sat in on film classes. Never registered as a student, but he used to go to USC and go to classes. He just wasn't actually a student there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so that circumstantial evidence combined with the fact that he was arrested driving Jonathan's truck in Greenwich basically convicted him of murder. Sorry. They. There was only one body buried in the backyard. They never found. Linda.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Linda? Where do you think she is?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, the police suspect that Clark had an affair with Linda.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because basically he. Clark thought he was in with Dee Dee and thought that he was going to get her money and get the house and be in San Marino and like, have his life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then Jonathan and Linda were basically what, were standing in the way of that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I think. And he thought, you know, I'll get. This is just this crazy old drunk lady. I'm gonna get her to sign everything over to me and then I'm going to have the life I want. And then Linda and Jonathan are just like, you need to move out of here. And basically that's where it started. So he. The theory is that he tried to break them up as a couple and then he murdered Jonathan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So Linda might be out in the world.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They think she's dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, she's dead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. They just think that he brought the body somewhere else.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so sad. I believe. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was charged With Jonathan's murder. And he. And the trial was in April 2013, and he was convicted of first degree murder. And he's now in some weird jail in Ironwood Jail in Blythe, California. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Can I see a photo of him? Yeah, I want to see him like a mug shot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so funny because when they talk about like that he's good looking and stuff or that he had a way with the ladies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nope. Well, let's see. Is he hot?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, to each his own.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. He's like a nerd.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's. Well. And also when you see him talking, it's even worse.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's got no mouth because he kind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of talks like this. It's like somebody in a bad, like mustard commercial where you're like, what? Why would you talk like that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He looks like he is a character in the Simpsons.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, oh, no, where's his mouth?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's just kind of, you know. I'm sure he was insecure as a teen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And all of that, plus being really smart, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just made up for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't see him being a ladies man, but good for him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's all in the. Brains. Brains. Brains.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Brains. Brains. Brains.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Brains. We should thank Steven. Yeah, thank you, Steven, our beautiful engineer who gave us microphone. They're beautiful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you. You've been killing it. We appreciate it. Elvis is sitting there waiting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Elvis, it's your big chance.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, wait, can we try and do this? Do we do it before or after we say, Elvis, you want a cookie? You want a cookie? He wants your microphone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We usually do it after because stay sexy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't get murdered. Okay, we're back. Karen, any updates?

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are updates. I recently listened to a podcast about this story. I can't. It was like one of those anthology podcasts. So it was like a bunch of. It was almost like, here's a bunch of rich crimes or whatever. And then it was. This guy is like he isn't really rich, but. But it is. So I just recently kind of revisited this and it just like, God, this is. It's just insane. So after numerous denied appeals, Clark Rockefeller, quote unquote, was transferred to San Quentin in December of 2016. And so he's there now. He stays busy painting and he's journalist for the San Quentin News. So with good time credits, he'll be eligible for parole in December of 2029. He'll be 68 years old if he gets paroled. And his daughter Rhae has since changed her name and she lives a Private life, which is good for her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How wild is it that both of the murderers in this story are in San Quentin right now as we're speaking? Oh, yeah. Do you think they fucking know each other?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would think they do, only because aren't the infamous killers, like, treated slightly differently?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they're, like, held separately for some reason.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get protection, maybe, if they might need it. I don't know. Who knows?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I definitely don't know. But that's. Yeah, that's crazy. Observation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So creepy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so this episode was originally titled, as we have said many times, the Fuckword Murder Mystery Show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And if we were naming it today, which, you know, that's a classic name. Well, we call it based on something we said in this episode. So the quietest girls on the podcast. Because that's us, obviously. Us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. We're so quiet and demure. Excuse me. Which is what George is. She's talking about saying a spoiler without warning. And it's like burping without saying excuse me before or after, which, if that's the case, we have burped and burped and burped, literally and figuratively all the way through this show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We have never said spoiler alert before our burps, for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I remember people getting mad about that and putting it in, like, on social media. And me kind of in the beginning, like, can you please say spoiler alert? And it just like, yeah, yeah. No, like, you have to. It's the standing spoiler alert. We're gonna ruin it for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. It's also like, okay, but did that air, like, five weeks ago? Like, what's the cutoff? It's not on us anymore. It's on you 30 years ago. We're spoiling Rear Window for you. I mean, I don't think.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, I'm not. Like, I basically have gone into lockdown until I see Nosferatu. So, like, that's just the. That's the life I am willing to live if I want a totally fresh experience.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's on you. Take some responsibility.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait a second. There's also Alejandra's suggestion. Meow meow, meow, meow. Which is me doing a theme song for Tweet Corner. And it says it's Mimi's theme song as well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, you probably just heard it. Cause you just listened to rewind, which we fucking appreciate. Thank you guys for listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so nice of you to re engage and to churn up all of the old stuff and look at it and piece through it with us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Take what works for you. Leave the rest like in aa. And thanks for being here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Leave a penny, Take a penny. Yeah, yeah, all of it. It's one of those kinds of podcasts. Let's do it that way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?