Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 35: A Small Foreign Faction

Summary

My Favorite Murder Rewind: Episode 35 – A Small Foreign Faction

Podcast Information:

• Title: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Network: Exactly Right
• Release Date: March 5, 2025
• Episode Title: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 35: A Small Foreign Faction

---

Introduction

In Episode 35 of Rewind with Karen & Georgia, hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark delve into one of their most intriguing discussions yet—the CBS documentary covering the infamous JonBenét Ramsey murder case. Breaking their usual format of sharing new true crime stories, this episode focuses entirely on analyzing and critiquing the documentary, providing fresh insights and updates on the case.

---

Recapping Episode 35: The CBS JonBenét Ramsey Documentary

[00:28-01:37]
Karen introduces the episode by explaining that this time, instead of sharing surprise stories, they are revisiting their earlier discussion on the CBS documentary about JonBenét Ramsey's murder. Georgia echoes the sentiment, highlighting the documentary's epic nature and their excitement to revisit it with new commentary.

---

Personal Anecdotes and Host Dynamics

[01:25-02:31]
The hosts engage in a light-hearted exchange about "scream sneezers," sharing personal frustrations and familial anecdotes. Karen shares her struggle with her mother's loud sneezes, while Georgia vents about her own experiences with noisy roommates during the '90s. This segment humanizes the hosts, showcasing their chemistry and humor.

Notable Quote:

• Georgia Hardstark [01:25]: "If you're friends with a scream sneezer, cancel the friendship immediately. It's the most obnoxious habit in the world."

---

Analyzing the CBS Documentary: JonBenét Ramsey Case

[16:10-43:47]
Karen and Georgia dive deep into the CBS documentary, dissecting various elements such as the ransom note, the family's behavior, and potential theories surrounding the case.

• Ransom Note Critique:
  The hosts scrutinize the ransom note's authenticity, pointing out inconsistencies and improbabilities. They argue that the note’s demands and style are uncharacteristic and overly dramatic, raising suspicions about its legitimacy.

  Notable Quote:

  • Karen Kilgariff [25:55]: "There's no small foreign faction, no kidnapping, and the kid was already dead."

• Family Dynamics and Suspicions:
  Emphasis is placed on the Ramsey family's portrayal, particularly John Ramsey's demeanor and possible motives. The lack of genuine emotional response from the parents during critical moments is highlighted as suspicious behavior.

  Notable Quote:

  • Karen Kilgariff [41:13]: "I think John Ramsey is the fucking entire mastermind. Because... the whole thing remains unsolved."

• Psychological Insights:
  The discussion touches on Burke Ramsey's interview behavior, suggesting he might be on the autism spectrum, which could influence his actions and responses. They express sympathy for Burke, viewing him as a troubled child caught in a horrific situation.

---

Theories and Speculations

[33:05-57:09]
The hosts explore multiple theories about the case, debating the likelihood of an intruder versus an inside job perpetrated by family members.

• Inside Job Theory:
  Karen posits that an internal familial conspiracy is more plausible, considering the ransom note's flaws and the family's inconsistent actions post-murder.

  Notable Quote:

  • Karen Kilgariff [83:45]: "It just makes more sense to me that one of the three people aside from JonBenet in that house that night had something to do with it more than a stranger or someone else outside of it."

• Intruder Theory:
  They also acknowledge the possibility of an external perpetrator, citing statistics about registered sex offenders in Boulder and JonBenét’s numerous pediatric visits as potential indicators.

  Notable Quote:

  • Georgia Hardstark [73:34]: "There's a lot of cognitive dissonance."

• Documentary's Influence:
  The duo critiques how the documentary may have influenced public perception, potentially biasing viewers towards certain theories without conclusive evidence.

  Notable Quote:

  • Karen Kilgariff [93:25]: "Burke Ramsey sued CBS over this documentary, and he sued for 250 million in compensatory damages and 500 million in punitive damages."

---

Critical Reception and Case Updates

[74:22-95:01]
Karen and Georgia discuss the ongoing impact of the documentary, including Burke Ramsey's lawsuit against CBS for defamation. They reflect on the challenges of presenting balanced viewpoints in true crime media and the ethical responsibilities involved.

• Legal Actions:
  Burke Ramsey's lawsuit against CBS underscores the contentious nature of media portrayals in unsolved cases.

  Notable Quote:

  • Karen Kilgariff [93:25]: "Burke Ramsey sued CBS over this documentary, and he sued for 250 million in compensatory damages and 500 million in punitive damages. And it was settled outside of court."

• Public Opinion and Media Ethics:
  The hosts emphasize the importance of responsible storytelling in true crime, cautioning against sensationalism and unfounded accusations.

---

Personal Reflections and Emotional Impact

[70:01-91:54]
Karen shares a deeply personal story about her struggles with substance abuse and her father's cold demeanor, drawing parallels to the emotional disconnect observed in the Ramsey family.

Notable Quote:

• Karen Kilgariff [70:01]: "When I was like 13 and on drugs and like a really bad kid... the thought of my dad weeping at me just not being home... made me stop doing drugs."

---

Conclusion and Forward Look

[92:02-97:53]
As the episode wraps up, Karen and Georgia reflect on the enduring mystery of JonBenét Ramsey's case. They acknowledge the complexities and the multitude of theories, expressing a mix of frustration and empathy toward those affected.

• Unsolved Mystery:
  Despite extensive discussions and analyses, the case remains unsolved, leaving room for ongoing speculation and investigation.

• Future Directions:
  The hosts express their intention to revisit the case in the future, hoping for new evidence or breakthroughs that might finally provide clarity.

  Notable Quote:

  • Karen Kilgariff [96:22]: "We'll update it again in 10 years when we finally have the answer."

---

Final Thoughts

Episode 35 of Rewind with Karen & Georgia offers an in-depth and emotionally charged examination of the JonBenét Ramsey case through the lens of the CBS documentary. Karen and Georgia balance personal anecdotes with rigorous analysis, highlighting the persistent uncertainties and ethical dilemmas in true crime storytelling. Their heartfelt discussions underscore the profound impact unresolved cases have on both the public and those directly involved.

---

Note: Advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections from the transcript have been excluded to focus solely on the substantive discussions and analyses of the episode.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

Foreign. Hello. Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. This is our new Wednesday show where we recap our oldest episodes, but we add in all new commentary and case updates and insights.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And today we're recapping episode 35, which we named a Small foreign faction, which sounds familiar to a lot of you. So this episode we did a little differently. It's just one story that we kind of discuss and talk about together. And we discuss the CBS documentary about the murder of JonBenet Ramsey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. It was such an epic documentary that came out. We both knew it was coming. We were excited to see it. So we're like, yeah, let's just talk about this. So it's one of the rare episodes when we're not telling each other surprise stories. We broke format met.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I like it. With big cases like this, there's so much to talk about, so why not? So join us now as we take you back to September 22, 2016, a Thursday unlike any other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And now we're going to listen to the intro of episode 35.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shall we?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What was going through your mind just now?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I was thinking about my old roommate who used to scream sneeze. And I was getting legitimately angry about the amount of time I spent with people I didn't like in the 90s because I was on drugs and drink.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe you were on drugs and drink because you couldn't stand the most of the people you were around.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think that had a lot to do with it. And yet I felt very, like, su. Fakely loyal or something or like I was supposed to make it work out somehow. But if you're friends with a scream sneezer, cancel the friendship immediately. It's the most obnoxious habit in the world. Like, what happened to you that you need attention when you sneeze?

[Karen Kilgariff]

My mom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What happened to her?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know, but she screams knees.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, she listens. We can't talk about her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's my mom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She knows her. She knows what she fudgeing did me in my life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is because it's. You know, your sneeze is coming if you're a scream sneezer. Yeah, I don't. She. So all of a sudden it's someone screaming.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She loves attention. There's no. You're completely right about that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, that's a. That's a. That's a connection. Yeah. Mom, I love you, but Jesus fucking Christ.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, she knows.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She doesn't care. Do you think a lot of people think that they just started this podcast accidentally, like, skipped the beginning of it, when really that was the beginning of it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was the beginning. We're trying new beginnings. It's called complaint. We're just a hard complaint at the top. Angry complaining. Then we go into our pre written intro. Go ahead, Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, thanks for tuning in to my favorite murder. My name's Georgia Hartstark.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And my name's Kren Kilgera.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this is pre. We've been practicing this for months.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We wrote it and then we sent it off to a professional editor. They sent back some suggestions. God, that was a great beginning of a podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're welcome for being fucking professional. That's why this. This episode's so expensive for you guys.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's right. Because of this amazing, high quality writing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How much money we spend?

[Georgia Hardstark]

We don't even say. Have we said the words my favorite murder yet?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think I mentioned it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good. Anyway, do you want to just kick right into corrections corner?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely. I have one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go ahead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no, you got. Cause I actually. I do have, like, one that I did. I fucked up last week. Oh, why not?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, stop trying to steal my thunder. Why would you do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this mass shooting in Australia led to crazy strict gun laws, which is amazing. And everyone who messaged me was like, we thought that the Sandy Hook shooting was going to be the same incident, and we think you're a terrible place because it wasn't. But here's ours. Here's this positive thing, and it's great and amazing, and we're all very happy with ourselves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you tell them about our saltwater taffy? Because we can be pretty great when we try. Yes, yes. There are people who are. Who have major problems getting guns to kill children specifically.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The problem is they don't have major problems getting guns.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I meant they have problems in their lives. Yes, they are getting guns and how.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And however, it's very easy for them to get guns. Even though they have major problems.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's. It's totally fine for them to get guns.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's talk about gun control.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yes. Who doesn't love to hear all about that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, what's your corrections corner?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mine is the simple fact that Peoria is not three miles away from Chicago, but three hours, and I swear to Christ, every single person in the Midwest texted and tweeted and told me about it. Personal friends, distant strangers, everybody who could possibly say. It was like. And they were Saying it as if I had said Abraham Lincoln was our first president. Like, excuse me, Peoria is not three miles away.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Karen, as the. As the other half of this podcast. Oh, yes, I'm exonerating you from that. Needing to be a fucking thing for you to apologize for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sometimes when I'm reading off my Wikipedia printout, my eye will tell me something that isn't there on the page. That's what happens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And like, okay, all right. So we're in Los Angeles. If someone said that in San Francisco is three hours from here, would you say no? Would you tell them it's six hours and would it make a difference?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. You know what I would do? I would withhold the true information. And then I would gloat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There you go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I would say I'm better than that person secretly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone needs just to be more selfish.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gloat more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Said it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Talk to us less.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In episode 35, Karen and Georgia just became real mean. She's became big assholes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was weird. They went into gun control.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then they just got rude. And that's when I said, I've had it. Here's a positive, okay? Because it's not all like that with us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I have a positive too. Go ahead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you really?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, my positive you know about. But let's fake and pretend like you've never heard this story before. So Steven hasn't heard it. Steven, I'm not gonna look at you anymore. Steven.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't look at me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I was doing something, working probably and then killing time before I had to go somewhere else. So when I have an hour to kill, I go to J. Crew or some such place where I can get a long sleeve cotton shirt real quick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Haters, this is not a fucking ADJ Crew has paid us to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, we're not sneaking an ad in on you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, we haven't done that yet. And we would for the right money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're blatant. Yeah, that's right. They haven't paid us enough to sneak add in on you yet. Yet. So I go over to the Grove. If you are not have never visited Los Angeles or not from around here. The Grove is like three hours away from Los Angeles. In three hours, from the heart of Los Angeles is a mall that where they basically tried to make it if there was a small town where everyone was obsessed with shopping. That's what the Grove looks like. There's a train or a trolley or something. Gardens. So anyhow, I go into J. Crew, try to get Myself a shirt. And the guy. The first guy that says, how are you? Or do you need any help? And I'm like, no, no, leave me alone. And then he asked me again a little bit later, and I'm like, does he think I'm a shoplifter? I've worked retail. I know what this. You're patrolling me. And then finally he came up and he goes, what's your name? And I go, karen. And he goes, what's your last name? And I go, what are you doing? Never tell them your last name. And then he goes, are you from the podcast My Favorite Murder? And I pretend like I know, yes. And then he lost his mind on me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he told me, this is the thing that got me. So look, we are having some nice success with this podcast. It's very, very exciting. It's very exciting. It's quite bewildering. And it's just like a weird. It's just weird. Yeah, but I didn't think we were to the level of people recognizing us from a podcast at the Grove.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that's. That's. The Grove is like the biggest. It's like the. It's like tourists go there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like a big thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mario Lopez does his show from there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mario fucking Lopez does a show from there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's a high end recognition spot, definitely. So, Trey, who is the young man who is talking to you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's up, Trey? You think they're listening right now?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yes, I do. Because what he told me was that the J. Crew of the Grove listens to our podcast when they shut down at night and have to fold down the store.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he couldn't believe that no one that he closes with was there to see.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you think that they all think he's lying and now this is happening?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, girl, we took a picture to prove. And then someone wrote to the Twitter page and said, I can't believe I wasn't on shift when Trey met Karen from My Favorite Murder. And the whole thing was just this super cute. He was so happy. It just is so wonderful when you see people that excited and. Well, yeah, that was the cutest thing, Steven, is that at one point he was just asking me all these questions and stuff. And then at one point he goes, where's Georgia right now? I was just like, I honestly don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so cute. All right, so we're gonna do a personal appearance. We're gonna do surprise drop in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, a J. Crew closed closing shift drop in at the grove?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, right now. And then everyone turns around to the door, but we're not there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're shoplifting. I'm gonna go in there and shoplift and see if anyone says a word to my face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, they won't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So deal with that level, Stephen. Get on this level of fame that we're now all on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Steven, you're gonna get recognized next. Not me. I'm waiting for someone to yell to me, like, a transaction or, like, a thing. And then for someone to yell, stay sexy. Because, like, that would be. That's my dream, is that someone doesn't say they recognize me, doesn't say, listen to the podcast. But when I'm leaving, our interaction or transaction or whatever the fuck a parking lot, they yell at me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They do a shout out, and I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Will fucking scream at the top of my. Top of my lungs. Don't get murdered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Will you scream, Sneeze at them at the top of your lungs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At the top of my nasal passages.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what's funny, though? Like, my friend Allison Agasti, who I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Work with, love the shit out of her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's the greatest, and I work with her. And I walked into our writer's room the other day, and there's, like, you know, nine people in there or whatever, and she goes, I was listening to your podcast, and then I got all embarrassed and, like, shut her down, basically. And I later had to go, sorry, I received that incorrectly. I was like, it's that thing where, like, it's super exciting, and I don't want to overly be like, let's talk about it for five minutes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I'm, of course, I'm so judgmental of others that I'm positive I'm going to get that judgment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I keep hoping my parents will then do it, and I can be like, no, it's a great. It's a big. They don't care.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Oh, I got my sister started listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is a miracle of all miracles, is my sister Laura is now a listener and constantly texting me things we need to do, things we need to say, stuff we need to talk about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's have older sister corner.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of how bossy older sisters are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We should for sure. She had some very interesting observations about the JonBenet special.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, speaking of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not to segue corner you right into.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What we're doing, but let's take a casual, super casual, quick break. Did you just flip me off? Oh, you lifted your middle finger while you were taking a drink. No, it was very subtle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I actually Flip people off like this, where I barely move my outer fingers. It's just your outer fingers and side fingers. I just very slightly let my middle finger up. It's more feminine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just remember in elementary school, because everything got scrutinized and everything you did was stupid to everyone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That, like, the way you flip people off was made fun of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I just got really good at doing it correctly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you do the one where it's two shorter fingers. You don't pull all your fingers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pull all my fingers down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pull all your fingers down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is the proper you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, instead of this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I don't know what that is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is California.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That looks like a cute little bird or something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is Norcal you, where you kind of leave your surrounding middle fingers up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're right, like, they're like, between the first and second knuckle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is so visual that we should not be talking through. I mean, it's insanity what we're doing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's take a casual quick break, and we'll teach each other our middle fingers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then we'll come back. And you guys ready for Jean Benet? All JonBenet all the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's JonBenet time, everybody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's do it. Oh, I wonder how Trey from J. Crew is doing these days.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I remember that day so clearly in my mind. It was truly like my hand on the doorknob of success, and Trey was the guy standing outside that door going, oh, my God, you're touching the doorknob. It was just like, one of those kind of things where you dream of it, and then it's actually happening in front of you. So I'm being like, oh, my God. Are you from this podcast where I was, like, staring at him like, this can't be what's happening right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're like, what are you talking about? Only Georgia and Steven hear that in the apartment we record in. What are you talking about, person? I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're this excited, and you are telling me the staff of J. Crew listens to this as you close the store down, which is something I used to do with the gap lo these many probably 25 years ago. Knowing what it feels like to be a retail worker, that's just like, how are we gonna get ourselves through the next three hours? And the idea that you and I were the solution to that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I love being a solution. It's incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause I love being other people's solution that they make us into, because it's very hard to kind of like, churn that up yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. You can't be your own solution, but you can be other people's solutions and you can find solutions in other people and places and things. And so it's nice to be that it's very true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, speaking of solutions, the funniest thing is in this episode, I shout out my friend Allison Agosti, who has since been hired here at exactlywrite, and she is basically now the staff writer and writes a lot of the stuff that you see and hear coming out out of exactly right Media and all the promos and all the different things that you hear. That's her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's crazy. She writes in the bullet point here in our details. Now I work here and we talk about the podcast every day. How do you like that, Karen? So she's like, yeah, she's in it. I also love and remember so well the. The like, how do you flip people off Conversation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. One of our.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No idea. Before that, there was like a different way to do it because you were full this. Right. I'm full.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I'm single finger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Single finger. Like, pull the other ones down with your thumb. Like, as for as much impact as possible. But you're like. You're like, curl the fingers to the side.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mine is almost. Don't do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But gesture toward people. I kind of do my flip off. Like, I have very nicely manicured nails, even though I never ever do. I look like a gardener, but it's almost like the energy of nicely manicured nails and a lady that cut you off in traffic but is gonna flip you off at the same time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's almost more of a you to barely even bother with a middle finger than it is to give a like. Like what I do. An excessively angry one because it shows that I care.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You really care?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I really care.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What we mean is the word hate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hate. All right, so let's get into this really complicated conversation we have that, like, I can't wait to update because so many things have changed except for the fact that we still have no fucking clue who did it. And I still am so all over the place about who did it and change my mind constantly about it, you know?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep, here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's get into our 2016 review of the JonBenet CBS special. There are probably a billion furniture options out there. We didn't count, but that number feels right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So how do you find the perfect piece?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Easy. You go to article.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean we couldn't rave more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's because everything is so classy, so beautifully made, affordable and so user friendly. Like you don't have to have style to like get stylish stuff from article. They do it for you. So like there's no worry there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look at that near a dresser on their website. Just go and take a look at that one piece and you will see what we are talking about. It is as mid century as you could get.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the time of year when everything smells amazing and thanks to Pretty Litter, your home can too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, a huge thing if kitty litter shipped to your door alone is an amazing convenience and perk. But then the fact that Pretty Litter helps you track your cat's health and make sure that your cat is doing okay as it like takes care of odor in your home. What more do you want?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, as someone with an older kitty cat, I'm looking at you Mimi. It is like such peace of mind to know that if something's going on with her kidneys, I'll know immediately instead of like months in the future when she shows me some other sign. Pretty Litter helps keep your house smelling fresh and clean. Try it and you'll love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go to prettylitter.com mfm to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's prettylitter.com mfm to save 20% on your first order AND get a free cat toy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Prettylitter.com mfm Terms and Conditions apply.

[Karen Kilgariff]

See site for details. Goodbye. There are a lot of things that help you feel at peace. A cup of tea, a great playlist.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Roasting a troll on the Internet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ooh. But the best thing for your piece of mind is knowing that your home is protected with SimpliSafe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With SimpliSafe, millions of Americans enjoy greater security and peace of mind every time they arm their system.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Traditional security systems only take action after someone has broken in that's too late.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But with active guard outdoor protection, Simplisafe's monitoring agents closely watch your property and stop crimes before they happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The cameras use advanced AI to distinguish between friendly faces, like family and neighbors and potential threats, alerting agents to suspicious individuals before they get close to your home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, now SimpliSafe is offering AI technology, technology that can read faces. So your alarm isn't going to be going off because you know a raccoon walked by and sat on your front porch for a little while.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I turn mine on even when I go to walk. Cookie like mine is always on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Will they know about your neighbor that you don't want to talk to, though? I don't. I don't think that's something we can ask for. But in this day and age, that's the kind of technology that for a dollar a day, you're getting a bargain.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Visit simplisafe.com fave to claim 50 off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's SimpliSafe.com fav there's no safe like SimpliSafe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How many you there? There needs to be a code word for when we're not actually going to take it. Like, because we always say, let's not take. Let's not do this. Let's take it out. But like, when do we mean it and when do we not?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, you like it Almost like a safety.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They call that during sex like a safe word.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, because Steven gets confused and he goes to write something and I'll be like, no, just kidding. Leave that in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I take it as a challeng. Yeah, that's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You, Stephen is the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We leave this all up to Stephen and he beautifully edits. Can you imagine if he just had to like the whole thing is this kind of insane bullshit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then Steven's our cult leader and it's just whatever he says goes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I'm in the basement. I have no basement.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're in the basement.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is like the Alamo and we're back. Let's. Let's make jokes and stuff and then get into something real fucked up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, people have been continually tweeting us since the ads for the JonBenet special started saying, can't wait to hear what you guys say about all this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Me too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Then when I went to a tivo it the other night, there were three choices.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have a question.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you still have TiVo or do you just still call it that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I call it that. Okay. That's my verb of that. Because I'm not DVRing is stupid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, no, I'm fine with the TiVo word. I just didn't know if that was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Still a thing if I had the actual brand. Yeah, no, I have Jack tv.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. If you must know again, no one's paying us for any of this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For. If they want to give us for. Then they can market. They can email.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mark this. Stephen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But what's the safe word?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Scream. Sneeze.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just kidding.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. So, yeah. So you had multiple genes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There were three choices. And then I was like, oh, I don't know when I am met with that kind of a life challenge, which is choose which the correct made for TV docu series about JonBenet's murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Choose your own JonBenet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I like, totally turn the channel. I'm like, oh, look, Father Brown's on. And then I just watched something when.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I joked that it was a choose your own adult. That is actually completely correct because I tried to watch a couple of them and every single one of them is so clearly with agenda.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pregnant with agenda.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And some of them won't. And I won't say who and what won't show the photos of her as a normal child.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Because. Yeah, that doesn't. That doesn't serve what their, their, their media message of what they're talking about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a video of her that. That to me. And I wrote in the thing. I wrote that like for l dot com. Can I plug it? I just suddenly felt awkward about do it. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get used to it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm not plugging it. I'm just how fucking happy I am. And I might cry from like how good it feels because I started on live journal writing. Let's. I'm going to be honest. And I didn't graduate community college.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you wrote two amazing articles for Elle.com that were so readable and so wonderful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're on our Twitter feed if you need to find them. They're great reads.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Karen. That Means so much coming from you. Because I think you're an incredible writer, my friend. And that means a lot to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And my sister said the same thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And she's a teacher who kind of can't spell.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That means a lot to me. Who kind of can spell.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now that I think she's listening, I'm gonna do stuff like, I would like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To thank the editors of Elle for making me look like I know how to punctuate shit. Apostrophe Ss will be the death of me. But they didn't. They made it not seem that way anyways. Oh yeah. In it I was like, go, everyone stop. And go look at photos of her as a normal kid.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it's a different fucking story. And one, there's this video of her that they show in slow mo of her mom. It's her as a little kid. It's like a home video. Her mom is scratching the top of her head as she nestles her head into her mom's leg. Have you seen this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's just so sweet and human and reminds me of me and my mom as a kid. And it's this like goofy, sweet little girl whose mommy is. Is comforting her and, and doing this thing she probably does a lot, which is scratch her head. You know, we all have this thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Very maternal, very comforting thing. Now was this before or after Patsy had dyed her hair blonde? Because I didn't know, I didn't know that it was dyed. I. I don't know why. And the when the friend in the CBS one, when the friend talks about seeing JonBenet for the first time with dyed blonde hair and Patsy being like, no, it's just about it. She lied about it. But then if she was murdered when she was 6, she must have had that blonde hair for at least a couple months, if not a year before. Which means someone dyed a five year old's hair blonde.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bleached.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, bleaching your hair is disgusting. If you've ever had your hair dyed. Women know it's like a very gross, intense chemical process on a five year old. That's crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just. But I don't. But in the pageantry circuit, I don't think it's that weird which was which she was in. Yes, it's weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was my point is no one talks about that. The pageantry circuit is basically a strange, weird commercial for pedophiles. And there's no reason you should have a six year old girl dressed like an Atlanta heiress or Harris there's no reason we should be seeing a little girl basically cosplaying an adult rich girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I. Okay, here's my thing with JonBenet Ramsey in the whole case is that I will argue the opposite of anything that's argued because there's such a huge argument because there's never gonna be any conclusions. And every single piece of evidence, and I wrote some of them down has an argument for the other side.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right, exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's what I kind of love about this is because I really don't like being like, this is my opinion and here's the argument why. And I won't listen to you in your opinion. It's like, I'm not doing that. Not you. No, no, no, no, no. I mean like any other debate that people have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? No, exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When people absolutely decide how they feel and won't come off of it. No, I totally. I agree that in every other way except for. It unnerves me how normalized the pageant system is where it's, it's only little girls.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But that's the thing is that it is normalized for certain people, including Patsy Ramsey, who was a pageant queen and they're from the South.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, true, true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it wasn't that weird to her. It wasn' was in her mind abusing this girl and dyeing her hair. It was like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think it's necessarily abuse. I just think it's a it you are putting on a child a, a little girl long before she needs to be dealing with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Completely agree with it, I just don't. It's just like when people present not you, when it is presented that there are, there is proof that this is why these, why she was murdered by the parents and how fucked up these things were. I just don't think they are like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A lot of parents. No, no, I'm not, I'm not arguing that the pageants prove they did it. I'm arguing that the. That dyeing a six year old's hair shows very bad decision making skills and, and just a weird. Yeah, but these are people that like. I also didn't know they had two of their own planes. I didn't know they were the level of rich that they are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you're arguing that that dyeing a 4 year old's hair blonde is, is proof that this parent doesn't have the best, the child's best interest in mind and therefore it makes sense why she would have been part of the. Maybe the murder or the COVID up I. But I agree with you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That makes sense to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Man. Should we get into this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we're. I tell you, we're in. Do you want to start or should we.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are we starting now?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Steven, can you then hit play?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you delete. Oh, man. I mean, okay, the CBS thing. And here one of the rules on our Facebook group is don't talk shit about other podcasts. That's right. And the hosts of the CBS show have a true crime podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Steven, why don't you go ahead and look that up, if you don't mind. I just think so. I liked them a lot and I think they had the best interest and I don't think. I think they're integrity based people. I just think that the moment you are clearly going for a certain. What's the word?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Agenda. Like an agenda.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can't. Like the moment I saw that John Ramsey was being interviewed for one of the documentaries, I was like, I was out. Because he wouldn't agree to do it unless the agenda wasn't. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, that's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So what did you think about Burke Ramsey's interview with. I didn't watch it. I watched clips.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, on Dr. Phil.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. This is my.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Watch it either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But you saw that he was smiling through a lot of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Yes. I think that Burke Ramsey might be on the spectrum.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what I thought too. I don't think it's fair to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Smiling isn't a sign of anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, that's nerves. Yeah. Here's the thing. If you have been around TV or done tv, I've watched a lot of people act super weird on tv especially. I don't know, was that. That whole thing pre taped? Like there was no audience when he was talking to Dr. Phil.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No audience.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. See, and I think I said this before, but the reason I didn't watch it is because I have a friend who's a producer on it. And she was like, nothing came of it. They didn't reveal anything. So then I was like, oh, it's boring. But then a bunch of people started tweeting at us of like this behavior and all this different stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was definitely weird behavior, but I don't think it was indicative of someone who was guilty or innocent or you can read anything out of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is it. Was it weird for a person that has two planes? I mean, like, this is a person.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That'S never, literally never done an interview before in his life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. And probably never had to really be in the world in a real way in his life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so I think the reason this whole interview happened is because he. They somehow knew that the CBS documentary was coming out that kind of pointed towards him. So this is like a quick fuck. Let's. Let's get this out before that comes out. So he maybe didn't even want to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No way did he want to do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's freaked out. Oh, God. Oh, my God. There's so much to talk about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he also, you know, he's already suing cbs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is he really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's what someone told me at work today because we were all talking about this morning. Shut up. Yeah. And because I said everyone was talking about why possibly would they have reduced it from three or four episodes to two? And I was saying it could have been a thing where they let them do it, but they said because they. Because I'm obsessed, of course, with the pageant part and the. And any kind of The. Any. It felt like any. They just dismiss any. Any kind of sexual molestation or anything. They just dismissed it out of hand, which seems very unlikely to me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wrote that in the L article that it's like, oh, yeah, I'm ripping.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You off from the lrco.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was my idea.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm going to see you for. What's it called when someone copies your shit?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just copying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just make. Make me sound smarter in that clip. All right. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here's. Looking for the button.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. Your button knows. Here's the stuff I liked from. That I didn't know about. From the CBS show. I really loved. I. I love handwriting and linguistic analysis. I think it's fucking fascinating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The fact that. That someone pointed out that no one would ever write that they were a small foreign faction.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You make yourself seem bigger. You don't seem like you're a small little group of people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very interesting. And also, no one calls themselves foreign.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Exactly. And if you are a band getting together right now and you don't name yourself small foreign faction, you're a fucking idiot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll murder you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Punk rockers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get it, Get It Together. I know that phrase. There was like, all those things about the phrasing and the like. And. Sorry if I'm jumping on this, on yours, but I was freaking out when they got to the part where the. The ransom letter quotes Speed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't know. Dirty Harry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dirty Harry. It's just like you. How so? If. If this is Patsy and. And John and they're Covering up. You know, the one theory that they were really shoving in your face on the CBS one. If that was true, then they really think that they're so much smarter than everybody else.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That they can add in lines from the movie Speed and have nobody catch on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They absolutely do. Okay, really quick. Stephen was like, brought his phone over me to show me a thing that I asked him, and I completely forgot what I had asked him. So I was like, what is he? I don't remember what.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. The podcast that the hosts of the CBS show do is Real Crime Profile, which I've listened to. It's a great podcast. Oh, okay. Yes, I agree.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what? Let's. Okay, so let's start. You ready to start? Let's. What is your theory, like, overall? Like, what's your favorite theory?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I think that. I think it was Burke.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. How do we think. I think Burke got angry and didn't. I don't think he meant to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I don't either. I don't think. I think he wanted to hurt her. Yeah, I think that. But a lot of the stuff that they named that was like, oh, you know, God forbid that he do this or that is all stuff little kids do. Brothers and sisters especially are really mean, unfortunately, vicious with each other. So, like, a lot of that stuff didn't freak me out because it's like, yeah, yeah, you hit. You hit your brother or sister with a piece of train track or whatever. My sister and I used to. I talked about it before getting. Getting into fights where you're being beaten with a remote control and shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The first time I got punched in the stomach was when I was like five by my sister. Yeah, like that standard thing because you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As a kid, you don't know how strong you are. You don't know how much it hurts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you're. And you're angry and you have no parental supervision.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wrote an article that my. That our friend Kat Solon, her brother bears her childhood teeth mark scar on his body because they were so angry that they. They did that. Like, you just get angry at people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But. And also it's the thing of if he did that and he was super angry, and it does make sense that she's the little princess that gets all of the mom's attention. And he was older. It would have been different if he was younger, but he's older, so he was used to having all of her attention. And then that got. Got kind of redirected, which is very painful. And awful if he already was having a little bit of, like, developmental or if there's just some issue with, like, he's a little slower, he's a little bit emotionally off, whatever it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Which is which A lot of things I read say he was a little bit of a weird kid, which. I mean, I grew up with a weird kid. I understand that they're weird. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That doesn't mean they're. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here's the thing my sister said. She texted me and said the thing with the feces is really bad. That's usually a sign of sexual molestation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, the wetting the bed thing. So JonBenet wet her bed regularly. They said Brooke might have too. That to me is hard because I wet my bed later than I should have.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I did too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I sucked my thumb until, like, second grade. I was never molested.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's hard. You can't just say that definitively.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the shit thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit is a much bigger deal because even when you're little, you don't. It's not natural to like. It was as if they were saying. And I don't know any more than what they presented on that. Yeah, but it was as if they were saying he, like, would. On her stuff or he would, like, wipe. Wipe places. And my sister has been a grammar school teacher for over 20 years and she has a master's degree in like, in developmental education or whatever. I'm not exactly sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I fix that in post.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fix her degree. But essentially this is what she does and deals with kids a lot that are going through this. And she was just like, that's bad. That's. That's the worst thing she heard in the whole thing was anytime a kid is like, got his hands in shit and he's not a baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, she had. This is the thing they revealed in the CVS thing is that she had a great fruit size in her bed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That sounds painful and fucked up and. And not. Not normal at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. Like he was collecting it or.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that she just saved having to go to the. She was so uncomfortable going to the bathroom that she waited until she was in bed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I thought. I thought he put it there from what? Oh, because they said the maid found it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I was thinking that he was like, trying to wreck her shit because the other stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or make her look like a gross.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I say that? Like, I kind of. I feel bad for Burke in this whole thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's very bad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then I read something, you know, I. I made everyone on our Facebook group and send us their theories and send us what they found that was interesting and their thoughts and everything. And one of them was that Burke actually doesn't even know that. He doesn't know that he caused that blow. He might have done it. And they were like, go to bed. And he doesn't remember it. He maybe somewhere deep down does, but he doesn't know that he put that whole thing into action. I feel bad for this kid who clearly has some issues.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think he knows something, though, because remember that interview he has with the cop? And he won't say the cops. Yeah. What's in the bowl? And he just won't say it. Like, he goes, oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So in the CBS documentary, they show clips which is like, I could watch this for hours of. Of Burke being interviewed by a psychologist or social worker post. Like, when he was a kid, the. There was two times they let him be questioned. And in it, you know, they're talking and actually, it's amazing, they show him a photo of this, the table, the crime scene table, which has a bowl of pineapple out with Burke's fingerprints on it. And in JonBenet's stomach after she died is an undigested piece of pineapple.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so the. The social worker, the psychologist, shows Burke a photo of the pineapple and says, what is this? Or shows him the bowl of pineapple. And he says, I don't know, it looks like cereal or something. And he says, well, what could that be? And then Burke goes, oh, like he knows not to say what it is. Yes, that's weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it's like a little kid thinking he's outsmarting someone. And there's this. You're watching from this camera overhead. He also is in a very weird physical position in that chair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's very weird physically. He. He's very antsy in a weird way. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he gets down on all fours when he's looking at that picture. And I understand it's like a kid's way, like, almost like child's pose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But to me, in that situation, it gave me the creeps. Like, it was just weird. He was. He wasn't. He was very stilted in his voice, but he looked incredibly comfortable. Yeah, it was almost like chill.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was chill.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How do we. Okay, so, like, my theory, in my mind, the mastermind of this whole fucking entire thing, which is that Burke unknowingly hit her over the head or threw a flashlight through someone mentioned maybe he didn't actually like hit her. Maybe he threw this flashlight at her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And this happened and it was staged. In my mind, the mastermind of the whole thing is not Patsy who is bringing. Who is just being, being thrown under the bus fucking completely in this whole thing. It's someone who's still alive. And so I'm scared to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's John Ramsey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's John Ramsey. I really think John Ramsey is the fucking entire mastermind. Because. And another thing I was thinking too is that like their interviews post right after what happened are creepy and fucking weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The CNN interview.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like all of their. Like them calling the press to give an interview. And you had mentioned it before that, that, that when someone asks to ask Patsy, who's clearly on Valium.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. She's on so many pills. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They ask her do you think it was an outside intruder? And she's shaking her head no with her eyes closed. And the minute John says yes, she starts to nod yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. She goes into this weird circle and then tries to like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But she also does her. She's doing a lot of like long blinking. Yep. And it's almost like she just doesn't want to. She just wants to disappear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, here's what I think. Think. Okay. I definitely think Patsy wrote the note. The. The ransom letter. It's not a note.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. It's a four page letter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think Burke accidentally hit her. I think they conspired to cover it up maybe with, with John being the mastermind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think he took her downstairs. JonBenet's body downstairs to, you know, make it staged as a kidnapping. And I don't think Patsy realized the extent of how he covered it up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think she thought he'd put a pillow over her face. She thought she would be suffocated. But when Patsy found out the extent of what he did to her body, I think then she. And she still had to go with it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think that that's why she was so freaked out by it. I don't think she was like. Do you know what I mean?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. And that's a horrible idea. Like just that you would be put in that position as a mother.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The one that gives me more comfort because it's so much less tragic. And it's based on that 911 dispatcher who suddenly was under a gag order for years and never talked to anyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And no one ever tried to interview her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But here's the thing that's weird to me. No one ever tried to interview her and she wasn't under a Gag order. So when was the gag order lifted that she can be talking on this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't think it ever was. I think she was just like, all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right, clearly no one for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think once they exonerated the Ramsey. The Ramseys, it was just gone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, what was interesting to me is she said that. That moment where Patsy thought she hung up the phone. I never knew about that either. That Patsy makes this 911 call, which I didn't listen. I, of course heard snippets here and there, but I cannot listen to it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's horrifying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well. And especially because it's bad acting. From that alone. If you just made me guess off the 911 call, I'd say they're complicit in some way. But that Patsy thinks she hangs the phone up and then they're recording what's happening in their kitchen and the 911 operator is on the line listening and trying to listen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the thing. Well, just the one thing that that 911 operator said was her tone once. She was like, so hysterical. And get someone here. Get someone here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly. A.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Don't hang up the phone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When your child is missing and that's your lifeline. Hanging up the phone is crazy. And then, baby, her vocal tone changes immediately to the point where that's what gave that 911 dispatcher the creeps.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because. Because she's hysterical. She's freaking out. She's not answering the 901 dispatcher's questions. The minute she says, who are you? She clearly says, I'm. She clearly states her name, everything. I'm the mother. And clearly gives an answer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Suddenly the hysteria isn't so out of control.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's true that, that I like this. In the CBS documentary where they said you don't hang up on a 911 call.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. No one does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one hangs up. It's your lifeline.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was the coolest part. I mean, I understand. Look, this is just like Jack the Ripper where there's so many experts now and there's so many. So many theories that it's just out of control.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's never gonna. I don't think it'll ever be solved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. Unless there's some. Something gets dug up, like literally or some hidden thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wish I don't hear what they. I didn't hear at the end of the 911 call at the hang up. What is purported to be said by who? By anyone in the family. I believe the 911 operator when she says, I heard. I thought I heard Patsy say, I called. I called nine. I called the police. Now, yeah, that sounds. That sounds more believable to me than when they. When they did the whole gimmick of slowing down the 911 call and slowing down people heard in the background and whose voice is. Who is. You hear what you want to hear.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, that's very true. And also that part was ludicrous because, well, it was just tv. I mean, that's the part where I was just sitting there going, oh, they're really trying to stretch this out. I bet you when they cut that other stuff in the other episodes, they had to go back and fill time or something, because that was so ludicrous. First of all, every sound editor in the world would watch that and just be like, these are the people I hate working with. You don't have to tell me that we need to go back and reduce the noise because clearly that's. Until you can hear what people are saying. We have to keep on trying to clarify the clip. Like the idea that they were sitting next to that man going, bring this down. Bring this up. Where it's just like, yeah, the guy actually knows how to use the machine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the moment someone tells you what they're hearing, you hear it too, of course. Even if it's not there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And especially with something like this where it's like you're hearing Patsy Ramsey's voice, you're hearing John Ramsey's voice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just thought, yeah, but at the same time, what they're arguing by hearing Burke Ramsey's voice at the end of that is that he wasn't in bed. And I have a lot of problems with the idea that he was in bed through that whole time. Because a. Why, when you just found out that your child is kidnapped and gone, would you let your other child be somewhere else? You would grab the other child and make sure they're by your fucking side.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's the first thing you would do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The first thing you would do, yes. Why didn't he get out of bed when he heard his mom flipping the fuck out to see what was going on and what was wrong?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, what he said in those interviews is he's a real deep sleeper all the time. Always.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's using words like, I'm always. I never hear anything. I'm always a deep sleeper.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Correct.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. So that's. Why would they lie about that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because they're lying. Because the whole thing is bullshit. And I mean, that kind of thing. Where like the 911 dispatcher heard things that even if she didn't hear exact words, like she was talking about, the vocal tone changed. So she knows that Patsy thought the phone was hung up and suddenly the act was dropped and that's what she was hearing. Maybe she got the words wrong or right, we don't know. But that in and of itself also when Burke goes, what did you find? That little quote, which you can hear pretty clearly, but it's like, it's such a weird little voice. Like he's. You don't hear. He doesn't sound scared, he doesn't sound upset. He sounds like someone that's going through that with not a lot of emot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so what about. Okay, why would. Let's say that they all had something to do with it. She wrote the 91 1. I mean the ransom letter. Why would they call 911 immediately without getting rid of the body in the morning? Like, why wouldn't they. Why wouldn't he have taken the body out and, and disposed of it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, who the fuck knows? Because I think it's because it's still their daughter. So they're not going to leave their daughter a dead garbage dump.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Problem with this case too is that there's so many things I've heard about. For example, that there was a book turn. There was a dictionary in someone's study turned to the word incest. The only place I've ever seen that is in, you know, forums of people writing about the case. I've never seen that in a, actual, you know, crime scene write up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that sounds like something a seventh grade girl would say.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, there's so much shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There was a book open on the desk, you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was so much shit. There is so much shit that I'm like, well, I heard this thing was what they found, but it's not in the autopsy report. So why would it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because it's like weird gossip. Because people start talking about stuff like this and suddenly it takes on a life of its own. But here's the thing. I thought when they were going over all those crime. The crime scene footage, who the fuck sees that their son killed their daughter with. By hitting her on the head with a flashlight, Takes that flashlight, sticks it on the kitchen counter and leaves it there. That's the thing that you would dump and get rid of. And that's the thing that baffled, I kept saying is this picture from earlier where they just know for a fact they own this flashlight.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But no but here. But okay, well, I'm gonna, gonna. I'm gonna immediately argue the other way because I can and I like it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're fucking freaking out. You had to start a ransom note twice, three times, because you're freaking out. You don't think to move this one piece. I just don't think. You think everything through and there's no blood on it. As they showed by having this fucking most fucked up kid in the world hit a goddamn mannequin with pig skin and a wig.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All of that was like. All of that. I say shame on you, cbs, because that was not. It was super creepy. He looked like a little child actor, but his eyes were a bit wild. The whole thing of that was gross.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Honestly, that whole time I felt so bad for the hosts because I was. I. You can tell that the producer was like, you have to fucking do this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And both the hosts were like, I'm a. I'm a fucking journalist. I'm a fucking. Like, we're trying to hide the actual. Yeah, yeah, we're. And you need this clip.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A six foot cop who is £200 is being tased to show what it might have been like for JonBenet, which is like, sorry, none of this equates.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is that. And when they were in a parking lot and the hosts were gonna go speak to the Ramses, that couldn't be recorded. And there was a whole like five minutes of that, of them waiting around in the parking lot for the host to come back and talk about unnecessary. The whole thing was unnecessary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was. I think they were trying to be verte, but it was also. They're like, so we've got this insane interview that we've been waiting for, but the guy's like, not on camera. But I'll tell you what. I know. Yeah, you just can't record it. So they need to, they need the, the what do you call it? Like, they need the authenticity of the fact that they got this huge gap of an Internet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's legitimate. Like, this is legitimate because we're actually speaking to them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It also shows to me as a person that's worked in TV for a long time, the Run and Gun style where you have to make up solutions on the fly. And if you are thinking it would be cool to work in tv, just go and look at Eddie Schmidt, the producer of this show, standing in the Safeway parking lot watching all the beautiful SUVs drive away while he stands there with the cameraman for four and a half hours, probably waiting. Yeah, they ate a bunch of. Of Safeway donuts and just kicked it, waiting to find out what happened, because that's what it's really like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you know what? Okay, here's a fucking thing. Maybe they did talk to the fucking whites on camera. And the whites said the same thing they always say, very fucking, you know, bullet pointed, and it wasn't as interesting. And so they said, let's pretend like they wouldn't speak to us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that a thing?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, yeah, because the thing that I was shocked by another piece of information was that Fleetwood letter telling John Ramsey, you need to cooperate with the police.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's crazy. They were. The whites came over the. The morning of the murder. They were the first group of people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There after the phony 911 call.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Fleetwhight was with John Ramsey when he found JonBenet's body.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wonder if those two people feel used as fuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, they were. Yeah, they were. Because that's another thing they talked about is that's a very common thing. Invite someone in to witness you finding the body.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You don't find the body alone. If you've done it, you people in to witness. Yeah, that was fucking fascinating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. There's a lot of, like, if you choose to look at it through this one angle, which I think we should.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do the opposite in a minute, too. I think we should look at it from an intruder angle, but in that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Way, a man who has two planes. First of all, sidebar. For people, for millionaires, a millionaire's house is kind of a shitty house. Like, there was. It was clearly pre the declutter Trend of the mid-2000s because there was so much shit everywhere. And it was like. There was like, fake autumn leaves that were plastic in a. In a drawer that was hanging down from the top of a, like, shelving system. It was like, sorry, you're rich. What is this house? And when they went to, like, open JonBenet's bedroom door, there were all those hand marks on the outside. Did you see there, like, finger marks or, like, kids grabbing the door? It just was like. Like there. It was weird to me. And this whole time when they say her body was found in the wine cellar. Yeah, I'm picturing a wine cellar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that was the most depressing, creepy room I've ever seen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was a cement room where they threw old and maybe kept some wine. I don't know. But, like, it. The whole thing was. There was a lot of cognitive dissonance.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I tell you when they were doing the, like, walkthrough of it? I Was thinking, I watch a shit ton of hgtv and the whole time I was like, well, you take down this wall and you open the basement up. So it could be like a. A man have an open concept thing. And this spiral staircase is so dated and unnecessary. Like the whole time I was like thinking of the Property brothers being like, you take this fucking wall down this spiral staircase.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It looks like something that would be in my hometown in a house that was left over from 1965. Like it is so weird and tacky and like if you've ever gone down one of those metal spiral staircases in a house, it feels like you're going to die.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're going to fall face forward into the. The bar that's on the next spiral.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So weird, that whole part. But I guess my point actually was super rich people like that that are kind of. They're. They're the people. They don't even fly first class. They don't fly commercial at all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh right. They get their own.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They have private planes. They're private plane rich. These are people who think they can get away with whatever because they already are up above the fray. They are not anywhere near Judy and Johnny Lunch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How crazy is it that she was 21 years old when they got married?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And he'd already had a whole family.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was what then? I think he was like 16 years older than her. That means he was like in his mid. Late 30s.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

21 year old girl that he marries. Y. I mean we've all met 21 year olds. They're fucking idiots.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Even that seems uncommon these days. Like 21 is a bit of a throwback.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he marries this trophy wife. They have a trophy daughter, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the third place son.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. The third house is ugly. I liked that. It was told that 76 of the ransom note was erroneous.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Too much. All you needed was these four lines.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're selling. They kept saying the phrase. They're selling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're selling it. Yeah. That there wasn't. There didn't need to be blood from the blow to the head. Even though they showed it in the worst way possible. That was interesting also. So you get. You see this ransom note letter. It says don't call the cops or will behead your daughter multiple times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The first thing they do is call the cops.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why is that? Even if.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because they wrote the letter and they know it's not actually going to happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Even if the letter wasn't. Even if they didn't do it and the letter was found. They still made so many mistakes and, and it was still a fake ransom note. No matter. That's what's so hard about it is no matter what, it was a fake ransom Note.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. That's 100% true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's hard to be like, who wrote this ransom note? You can't be like, but it was a fake ransom note. So the parents didn't know the ransom note was fake no matter what.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. There's no small foreign faction, no kidnapping and the kid was already dead. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the basement.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's not like. And then you clearly didn't bring this. If the ransomware had been brought in and then she was found dead, it would have been like, oh, they meant to kidnap her but didn't. It didn't happen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Also, the point they made very early and that is like to me, the proof of almost everything is you don't kidnap a six year old girl out of a millionaire's house and ask for a hundred thousand dollars. It's the dumbest fucking part of it where it's like you have a living child. It's millions. You ask for millions and you know this person's a millionaire. They talk about him. They talk about him as if they know him so personally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, they say a couple things in it. They say that, that get it out of your account. So they know that that's how much that he has at least that in his account.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not get the fucking money no matter what you can do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The other thing is get a big enough quote attache case. Who gives a shit what size bag, you know, Get a brown paper bag. You don't need to tell this person that get this much money, period.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Well, that's. Yeah, that's clearly someone just having.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thinking way too hard about this and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And also believing their own shit. Like that's that thing where instead of having the, the self consciousness to go, is this believable or whatever, it was just like sit down and have a creative writing session.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And saying, get some rest, you're gonna. This is gonna be complicated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like she. Okay, let's just say it was Patsy writing this thing. She sat down at a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She started out, but he might have been. Have been dictating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He could have been dictating. Let's not forget her handwriting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was a journalist major too. So she knows how to write.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Could go on. Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, no. But it is just that idea of like you get started, you're already got the adrenaline running some insane. You're you're in a surreal place. Anyway, then you just start kind of going for it where it's. You're quoting Speed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. You're like, here's this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She died, the girl dies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's what. People who have seen too many movies about it think that a ransom letter is written.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What about just. Can we skip to the part where they interviewed the gardener and he talked about Patsy Ramsey coming out to talk about the OJ Verdict? That part I was like, I don't care what else happens in this thing. The idea that there's a first person eyewitness talking about Patsy Ramsey's reaction to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

OJ which is that you can get away with murder in America.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. But there was also just. It was that. But then it was also just the general kind of mashup of like, this is like pop culture gone mad on my TV right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's interesting how much the OJ The Simpsons had to do with this. Mer like, how much they were affected by each other. And, you know, I was reading some of the movie quotes and how similar they were. And there were also people online who are fucking brilliant, interesting people who say, here's when this movie showed in Boulder, like near the date of her murder, like the night before one of the. One of the movies was played on TV.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, November 29th, this movie was played on TV in Boulder. It's really fucking interesting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

See, that's the shit like that really is. It's the wave of the future. It's people, armchair detectives, webs, Loose man, who are going to solve the big stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because that's the kind of stuff that, you know, like if cops and all those cops that talk like that one in investigator that. That quit because he was like, this is disgusting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Loved seeing him young and then seeing him interviewed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was hot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Super fucking hot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was hot. And also just his, like, burning sense of justice was delicious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he was just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want him to win.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And. And it's that thing of like, well, he. He quits. So. So then nothing goes forward. But then it's like, yeah, but. Or he stays and goes insane or takes the fall, or it's just. Or is it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or hates himself for the life because he didn't do the right. He didn't do anything right. Quitting sometimes is like the only way you can show how passionate you are about something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. It's a state. It's a real political statement. And if he was told this has become a political situation, then he has to be political too. You. You just have to play on the. On the playing field.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, the. Them saying that everyone indict. Everyone voted to indict the Ramses. Yes. For having some hand in JonBenet dying and the fucking police chief just being like, no thanks. Giving a news conference that they're not doing it now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One of the very first last podcasts on the left episodes I listened to on your Recommendation was their JonBenet Ramsey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it two part. They.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Last podcast in the last has a two part JonBenet Ramsey episode that I've. It's incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So thoroughly researched. It's so awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're back here.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're back here to really review something else. We're reviewing from the past.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm proud of myself for having the stance even back then of like, let's not use the word panties. Why are grown educated people casually scientifically throwing out the word panties?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like that. And when someone else pointed it out and I just got to be there to observe. Talking about, we don't call it kiddie porn.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's. This is. It's CSA child sexual assault materials. Like, that idea of it is part of the problem and is part of like the delineation that needs to be made of like the casualness, the grossness and also the kind of maybe insinuating that anybody is there voluntarily or happily.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. It's not porn. It's not the same thing as porn at all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But like, but really indicative of this was this. It's just weird to me how much this show, like, it doesn't feel like it was that long ago. It was a really long time ago.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was almost like, and now we're back in 2024. But no, we're not. We're now in 2025 even. That's so almost 10 fucking years. Yeah. Let's get back into the episode shop. We.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, let's get back into the rest of the story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, is there a second part to that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I just think cooking as an idea is really nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

And tell them that we sent you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Smell fresher, stay drier and boost your confidence from head to toe with Lumina. Goodbye. One of the to me most fascinating parts was them talking about how John Ramsey is a millionaire because he's got this computer programming company or some computer something company, but that they don't really know what it does. It has a government contract, I believe they said, and he makes millions of dollars a year but they can't really figure out what he does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We got to ask Mr. Roger Robot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. Robot gotta shut him down and then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We gotta go to Rahm Emanuel and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Be like what the are you doing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Later happens and are you doing later?

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I just thought that was it. I love that theory because I love there there is some bigger thing at work that's keeping the district attorney of Boulder underneath John Ramsey's thumb. Why does he have that much power? Aside from just money? There's got boulders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well since. I mean this is so dumb, but since watching Mr. Robot hacking emails seems like a very easy thing to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hacking fucking Internet searches. You have some shit on someone and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, so you think he did that to them and just was baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe they have some shit on the chief of police, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Emails. I mean, let's go to the fucking obvious. Child pornography, right? Anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And he knows about it before even the police would know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's fascinating. I liked how they Jump straight to Patsy as an MK Ultra robot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I just that. Well, I wrote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's go back to my L article. I fucking can. I. I wrote in it that how beautiful would it be if it was MK Ultra or if it was Is. God damn it, Stephen. The moment I said MK Ultra, Steven's phone started barking and it's like, the MK Ultra.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The government's trying to shut us down. We don't give a. We're talking about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Steven, you're fired. Steven, no, you're not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stephen, you're rehired at a higher rate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Elvis, you're in. Yeah, I. I would love it if it were that simple. That.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And interesting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And interesting and not. Not awful. But the reality is, like, parents kill their children more than strangers kill their children or kill people's children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. It's always from the family. That's it. That's the first place they look for a reason. It's usually an inside job. And it's also the darkest choice. So it's the biggest bummer that most people don't want to look at it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because that's. Anybody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's horrible. Yeah, I think, I mean, go. It's hard to find them, actually. I was looking for them today, but the initial press interviews with John Ramsey, which you can see in the CVS doc, are cold and creepy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he's a real creeper. I don't think that that necessarily, like, as people have said about many people in this series, like, I think we're just learning now how people grieve what they look like when they're under pressure and all this stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And, you know, I agree with that all completely, but this is fucking goodbye. Let's move on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, it's. It's very. It's so telling once you relook at it and like, under. Aside from thinking exactly who did it or exactly what the situation was, I just know that, like my father, like, if you're talking about someone who just died, baby, you. Even if you're a man and a strong man and you were in a war, you, Whatever, yeah. Your child, you would get choked up. You just. That's. The words are coming out of your mouth and you're listening to them. If you have a total disconnect, then you give a great press conference.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I say, let's impart a personal part of this because people fucking love that. But when I was like 13 and on drugs and like a really bad kid, and one night I just didn't come home and my sister had dropped me off somewhere and I just went out with my fucking punk rock friends and. And my parents called the police and were freaking out. And my brother later said to me, like, the next. When I finally came home and I'd just been on drugs all night, was like, I needed with my dad. He said, I heard dad in the other room weeping. Weeping. And my dad's not like that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I fucking. That was one of the things that made me stop doing drugs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the thought of my dad weeping at me just not being home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the fact that he's just. I mean, I know we all react differently.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the. The reaction. His fucking demeanor is cold. Cold.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's incredibly cold.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He doesn't put his arm around his wife who's crying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. There's a real, like, he has a real B of a bank manager feel to him where he's letting you know your house is getting foreclosed on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I. And I don't have. I have shut myself off from other people's emotions for so long that I just don't care.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, and also, like, he's in business mode where this is an emergency. All the, like, emergency cord got pulled, and now that's the mode he's in. And he's completely, like, compartmentalized. All. All of everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The mirror. The emergency garrotte got pulled.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, dude, that thing is such a bummer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think he was in the Navy. Is that true? He worked for a small foreign faction in the Philippines.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that true?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And their SBTC has something to do with the Navy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, is that true? It's Victory. Is. Is signing things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I wrote a thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is signing things. Victory with an exclamation point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's the Navy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's so stupid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here's. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Although I am changing my email signature. Do you dare me? I might do it. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I gotta do it. Okay, so I read Victory Victor. I read a bunch of shit of, like, I read a bunch of. Mostly the comments on people's blog posts about what it was were more interesting than the blog post. One of them was. It was on Websleuths. Someone said on your phone keypad, the Number corresponds with 3 or 4 letters. Look for SBTC. The numbers are 7282. 7282 corresponds with p, a, t, c, pat c. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now, John. Victory for Pat C. I know, but what is that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Victory for Patsy Patsy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So maybe Patsy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I know it's her, but I'm. How.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know. It's. It's. So it's one of those.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't that interesting?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It has nothing to do with it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, also, that's a really good. That's a really good way to make up a code.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's do it right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, pick one. What's your name on Hardco?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hard kill.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hard kill.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, here, let me write some like. I wrote, like, a bunch of thoughts. Why sign a ransom note to begin with, right? Nobody signs a ransom note.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No one expects you to put your name on there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Did you know there were also. And we should do a quick, like. Let's do the side of it was an intruder because there's a lot of them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, let's do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There were 38 registered sex offenders living within two miles of the house in Boulder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a lot. That's a lot. And Boulder small JonBenet had been to the pediatrician over the last three years of her life 27 times. That's a lot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's too many.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's too many.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, was. Was Patsy some kind of a weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She might have had munch houses by proxy. Patsy, for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what that says to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If Patsy had nothing to do with any of it and John did, it makes sense that she's the one to, like, who. If someone makes the panic 911 call, the other person is telling them not to read the note. It says not to call.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So one way or the other. You know what I mean?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, she's being manipulated, right? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think Patsy was manipulated this whole time. Maybe she knew some things and so she couldn't tell the truth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. I think that's what it looked like in that CNN interview where she's got pill eyes and she's going, I love my daughter with her eyes closed. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. There. I think that she maybe knew some of it and agreed to it and didn't realize the extent of her husband's fucking awfulness.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But also that idea that she would be telling. She. She said if we live in Boulder, which. She said the phrase, if we live in Boulder, which I wrote down, don't they live in Boulder?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would tell everyone in Boulder if.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We live in Boulder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she says, I tell my friends. So it's this weird thing of like, who are you telling?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. And she's saying, there's a killer out there. Hold your babies Tight. But the idea that. That's a given. Like, you don't have to underline that if you're this morning mother who.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As if she didn't. Because she was very protective of her children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Oh, you said in your L article. You said the thing about we have to stop using the word pants.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, can we not?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so true. But you know what I thought of is Henry Lee. Dr. Henry Lee has such a thick accent.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet you the word underwear was hard for him to say. This man is such a famous and prolific and legendary forensic pathologist.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you don't watch true crime shit, you wouldn't know that Dr. Lee. Henry Lee is someone that we all fucking and admire. He's everyone. The minute he's in on it, you're like, oh, this is legit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Legit. And also, he has a building. They went to his building with his name on the front of it to talk about that. Some of that DNA stuff. So, like, there's no. No sweat off Henry Lee's back in any way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely not. Yeah, and he's not gonna. He's also not going to bullshit. He's not gonna be paid to do a show with his opinion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because they need a certain opinion. He's not gonna lie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. I feel like all of those were there because this thing is fucked and we need to look at it and at least just organize the paperwork. At the very least.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I agree. The show was great. I wish we could see the last unaired.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Portion of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want to know what they cut out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I think they fucked everyone over by not showing that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But I wonder if it was stuff that the Burke Ramsey's lawyers were like, go ahead and air it. We'll own CBS in a year.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What I was thinking is that the fourth Bias docu series before it covered so much of it already that they didn't were like, you know what? We don't need to add this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Maybe. Except for. Well, I have to see the other ones to know. But I don't know. I mean, because their whole thing was like, we're going to discover all this stuff. Werner Spitz.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God, I love him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He has a straight up Peaky Blinders haircut. If you watch Peaky Blinders, that's the same hair. The second I saw him, I was like, oh, my God, Love him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Picture him and Henry Lee put in a house together. And they just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's when people stop being polite and start being real.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, that is my dream. And then, like, there's just like, they just get, like every morning they wake up and it's. Instead of Tyra Mail, it's like a corpse and they have to figure out what happened to it. Tyra Mail. It's corpse. Oh, my God. How great would that be?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, we should just start our own network, I feel like. Because also Warner Spitz guesting on Peaky Blinders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, gorgeous.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He could be the German Irish guy that comes in and just points some stuff out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen, Emmys next year we're there. Sure. Winning all of them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We'll go down to the shrine and stand around near that Burger King.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure. I'll get a fucking run to Runway dress.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. The whole thing actually made me. It made me think of, like, all of those other cases where people. The more people talk about it, the more people hear bullshit, the more like, you know, like the. We talked about the John Mark Carr theory where he had confessed to being her killer while he was in Malaysia somewhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. To get out of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To get out of being in jail because he's child molester who had gotten arrested for, I think, child sex tourism and knew that if he went to jail there, he would just die in a pit somewhere. And so he confessed to killing JonBenet and then was extradited.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's really interesting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And when he was extradited and everyone was talking about it, my sister gets a phone call from our childhood friend. I didn't tell you this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You did, but I don't remember it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I didn't know that. She goes, oh, my God, See that guy on the news right now? That's the guy from my church group I've been complaining about. And apparently John Lockhart lived in Petaluma and was in my sister's friend's church group and was the guy that everyone's like, I wanna cancel church group next week. I feel so weird. Like he was creeping people out and super weird. Super, like super. Just bad vibes. Suspicious. And then, I mean, how, like, satisfying would that be? And then you see him, like, basically confessing to the murder of JonBen Rams.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The minute I see him, like, you know, when there's, like, the clips or the trailers to a JonBenet, you know, docu series. And I see him, I'm like, oh, this isn't legit. No, I don't want to hear about him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He has nothing to do with it. Aside from sensationalism.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He should just get a big red herring costume because that's all he is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Should we? All right, I'm going to Read a couple things. Felicia said she did some digging last night and feel super confident about the Burke theory. She learned some things she hadn't before. Okay, this is interesting. There was a 14 year old girl that was sexually molested by an intruder about after JonBenet was murdered. Very close to the Ramsey home. Quote, Amy was sexually assaulted in her bed by an intruder that they believe was lying in wait for four to six hours before the attack while they were all asleep. He was never caught. And the Boulder police disregarded the mother's suggestion that he could have been the killer of JonBenet. Amy and JonBenet Ramsey attended the same dance studio.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ew.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There are a lot of. Okay, so the fact that they had a walkthrough of their Christmas decorated house, the Ramses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What was it a couple days before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The murder was like a public walkthrough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I didn't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, you know like when you do like a haunted house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Halloween.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So anyone could have been in there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And. And the theory is that while the Ramses were at a Christmas party that night, someone came in broken, knew someone who had a key, got in and hid and waited.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Totally possible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then there, like depending on what side you want to argue, either the window in the basement had no leaves where someone scooted in. Or had an undisturbed spiderweb.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where that would have been disturbed if someone had scooted in. Like everyone who has a fucking definitive answer about this needs to stop it. Because there's nothing. One.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. And that's, that's the crazy. The, the cobweb one. Watching them on that one show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Going in and out. Where I was just like. Yeah. But then there's the one time where you don't touch it at all. And because you're really skinny. Because you're on mask or this or that. Like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or you're careful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

One billion. Yes, exactly. The thing that I was thought was very suspicious was they. The first of all, they're these millionaires, they have two planes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But they have a broken window pane in their basement. And they don't fix it. Like I'm the most irresponsible person in the world. And when broke my kitchen window, I fixed it within three days because it's your house and it's an open window. Like it's unsafe, it's glass. And then there was some somewhere in that where they. John Ramsey said that they left it like that because he locked himself out a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is insanity.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The fact that he admitted to that being his fault, I thought was very weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Super weird. Because to me, it's like, oh, are you trying to justify if there's some latent print somewhere? Somewhere? Because it doesn't. What, get a Hide a key. There's 1 million things. Especially as a millionaire do, man. Yeah. Buy a second house. Like, there's all these things you could do instead of breaking a window and leaving it that way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I thought it was really like. There's some things that to me were like, well, if you want to argue this thing this way, you say this. If you want to argue at the. Like, there's things like. Like the Taser marks. If you want it to be an intruder, it's taser marks. If you don't want it to be an intruder, it's train track. It's Burke's toy train track marks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Every piece of evidence can be argued either way you fucking want it to be argued.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I did think it was interesting when they argued the Taser, that Tasers don't put you to sleep. They actually, like, get your adrenaline going and, like, zap you or make you very much awake.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's an interesting thing, I think. And I think that that could point to shoddy. This super shoddy police work of that. These weird assumptions where it's like they were. They were actually measuring it and being like, yeah, this doesn't even fit a Taser shape. It doesn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think the thing for me. All right, let's. Let's do our big conclusion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because I'm so tired.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm so tired. Let's do the thing between. Between I think, the ransom letter and the 911 call and what happened between when the cops came and her body was found put down. And then. Oh, I think those things all over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The house by neighbors and friends and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And picked up DNA all over the carpet. And I think those things are the most telling, more than anything else. Else. And the pineapple. But also. And I think those things all point to it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Inside job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it makes more sense to me that one of the three people aside from JonBenet in that house that night had something to do with it more than a stranger or someone else outside of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It just makes more sense.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It does. I mean. I mean, the thing that's maddening, I guess, is that it could be a little bit of everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It could be an intruder who opened that window and saw the suitcase in the room and put it there. Because he was like, I'm gonna go get that Little girl and take her out the. There's all these things that it could be a little piece of each. But yes, I agree and believe that the ransom note is a lie. Lie. And it's a fabrication. And the 911 calls bullshit. I don't buy her level. It's acting and it's not good acting. And then the fact that that mag light flashlight fits the hole in JonBenet's head perfectly is devastating proof that. Or at least devastating proofs too much. But it's that thing of like, then you. I just. It suddenly made sense of like, she did yet another irritating thing to him and he grabbed something nearby, threw it at her. Or like, ran behind her and cracked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her with not knowing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. You don't have to be like, you know, crazy, the good son, evil child to make a terrible mistake.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To me, Patsy and Burke are patsies in John's the puppet. Ego. Yeah, ego.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, he's going to take care of business like this. The worst case scenario thing happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And yeah, he's going to fix it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And did you know that. So out of all the. They did. I really like the. When they take apart the ransom note and look letter by letter of who it matches. So. Oh, God, where'd it go? So all these people were. Get my notes from under my cat. Oh, God, where'd it go? Well, a hundred people, their handwriting was compared to the ransomware. Some note. Everyone was cleared. And everyone keeps saying, like, well, Patsy Ramsey was inconclusive. Out of the hundred people, hers was the only one that wasn't cleared. Yeah, that was, quote, inconclusive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She also wrote out the words $118,000.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Instead of the numbers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nobody does that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No one does that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When asked to rewrite the ransom note, she did that. But I also, I. I just, I have so much sympathy for her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, yeah, the. The idea that she would. She would know that her child was murdered and then have to be a part of the coverup. Have to be the voice of the coverup.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. The grieving mother.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so then balance those feelings of you actually really did lose your child. But now on in the, in the name, just say if it's the Burke in the name of your other child, you have to continue on and do this thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a sickening proposition.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Especially when you're someone who appearances mean so much. You and I don't give a fuck. I'm sitting fucking spread eagle right now with shorts and I don't give a shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My roots need to Be dyed so bad that strangers laugh at me on the street. And yeah, to be wrapped up in that world, that trapping of, of it's, it is its own pageantry. It's an adult version of that. Of, look at my home. Look now there are balls of shit in my daughter's bed. Look what? Children, please, look at my Christmas tree.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you're still winning. You're still gonna win the crown if you're the fucking best at it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just different.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Insanity. Also, there was that one quote where a little girl and it's the, the woman that was interviewed, I call her the wine friend. That said I was exotic. I was, you know, turned out cast out from the friendship where I was like, yeah, because you talk to fucking reporters and you clearly just like ran blabbing the second.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But she said that her daughter had gone up to JonBenet's room with her one time and was looking at all the trophies and said, what are these? And she said, I just won those. But they're really my mom's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thinking, first of all, I don't buy that that actually happened. That sounds like some, I don't know, like an anecdote someone would write on Twitter about their brilliant child because it's such an old soul kind of thing. Knowing that's like her commenting on her. The reality of her own life in a way, as if she's not a part of it to say, yes, my mother's very wrapped up my career.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Talk about this on CBS when I'm dead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. It doesn't make sense for a six year old. Maybe if she was eight or. I mean, who knows?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everyone wants to make their kids seem like an old soul, but really they're just, they scream Sesame Street.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're new souls to everybody else in the restaurant when your child's screaming. So shut it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is. Was that enough JonBenet talk for everybody? I think it was a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think I'm done on talking about this anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Unless there's new information. Yeah, I would be interested in new information, but I feel like we've. We've just hit a peak, true zenith of JonBenet reporting. And, and also just that it's this thing of everybody going true crime. So hot right now. True crime or whatever where it's just like, yeah, but we don't need to keep talking about the same thing over and over.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The amount of research I've done on this person that I, this case that I'm reading, really very interested in and I feel a lot of sadness and pain for the victim. I feel like if I keep searching it and getting into and talking about it, I'm just. I'm not. I'm desecrating her memory. And I just. I can't keep looking at autopsy photos.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. And it's also. It's not good for your brain.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, it's not. It's. You're not related. You don't work on it. You don't put yourself through. I saw a picture on Twitter Moments this morning because there was nothing. I was up at like 6 and there was nothing going on Twitter. So I went. I made the grave mistake of touching the Moments button and seeing what the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Story is a thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it said something about JonBenet. But the picture was one where I was like, is this Angelina Jolie? Like, her mouth is open and her head is tipped back and she's got all kinds of fucking makeup on and her hair's brushed away from her head so you can see, like, her tall forehead. And she truly looks like she's 20. And it is such a sexual picture. And that's the picture Twitter Moments chose to use as the JonBenet headline picture. Not the cute one where she's got the little bangs and the little hat and she just looks like she's on vacation. It was like she might as well been, like, grabbing her own neck. It was such a sexual, like, perfume commercial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's stop doing this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stop it. It's gross to her poor baby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not going to stop, though, because it's. It's. There's. It's so fucking salacious and it's so mysterious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, she is a sweet she. We're gonna file her away as a sweet baby angle and she will be. And you're in mine. And my favorite murder is hearts. And we feel awful and wish it would be solved, but it's not. It's just not. There's not. Even if it gets solved, people are gonna say it's a fucking conspiracy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? Yeah. Keep. Keep your babies close and keep your foreign factions even closer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dude. And the punk rock band and stay sexy and don't get murdered by Elvis. Want a cookie? Want a cookie? Want a cookie? Good boy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We are back. And they're actually. This is what's very interesting. There are some case updates. So 28 years later, of course, the murder of JonBenet Ramsey remains unsolved. There are countless documentaries and forums where people talk about. About who they think did it. Theories everywhere. Earlier this year, John Ramsey met with the new Boulder police chief and said it was the first time he felt that the case was in good hands and that it gave him a lot of hope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, it's so funny because recently I talked about the new documentary, Cold case who killed JonBenet Ramsey? And it's another one of those. Like, John Ramsey is interviewed throughout it. And I was like, I'm convinced he didn't do it, blah, blah, blah. And I just, I still am. Like, I don't fucking know. Like, all of this. First of all, we should have said allegedly from the top. Did we even say that word in this episode? I doubt it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, there's no way we said allegedly. We had no idea that we should be doing things like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, this is all allegedly. I mean, my. My mind changes all the time. And I will also say that an update on this is that Burke Ramsey sued CBS over this documentary.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he sued for 250 million in compensatory damages and 500 million in punitive damages. And. And it was settled outside of court. So it was. This documentary was inflammatory.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. It absolutely was pointing that. I mean, it was almost like they're saying, we know that there's a demand for the solution, so we're going to try to get you as close to that as possible. Which is just kind of like anything can be produced if you're on that side of things and just basically kind of trying to steer people a certain direction. It still doesn't mean you solve the case just because you've compiled kind of like your own own narrative, your own.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Television narrative, like a possibility of something happening. I mean, to me, at this point, I was looking over the case again before we record it. I really don't think in my heart that Burke, this 10 year old boy, had anything to do with what happened. I do think that the ransom note is going to be the answer somehow, because it's just so fucking weird and you can't get past it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. There's so many weird specifics in that ransom. No, I agree with you. But all of this is just like, I feel like people theorizing, people online, everybody talking about it, everyone is influenced by these documentaries.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's like we all believe in 2016 that we, you know, we were really close to it. And then it's like, of course, 10 years later, everyone's like, no, clearly it's not that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And after this episode aired, a lovely writer named Nathan Rabin at Vulture wrote a very nice article about Us and this episode. So thank you so much to him. That was very. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean. Any final thoughts? I feel like this is just one of those, you know, JonBenet. It's like we've been seeing her face in the grocery store tabloid kind of like rack since the moment this happened. It is from a different time. It is an insane tragedy. Yet it is still the kind of like, white woman syndrome, white child syndrome. This is the most important kind of murder. Rich people. It's the thing of, like, we want rich people to pay some sort of a price. We want to know what's going on inside other people's houses, especially big mansions.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, definitely. I do still think John Mark Carr should be looked closer at, especially after watching that cold case who killed JonBenet Ramsey, because they interview the, like, private detective who was baiting him. And he did know more than he should have about the family.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was the guy that, like, showed up, right, and was suddenly kind of saying, I need to talk about. Maybe I'm involved. Involved in this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your sister was saying in this. In our episode. This episode, your sister's talking about having known him somehow, too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, it was. It was like friend of a friend type of thing, where somebody discovered that he had been in their church group.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I don't know. I still am not totally convinced he doesn't have something to do with it or knows someone who does. But we'll update it again in 10 years when we finally have the answer. Can you imagine? Double rewind, Double rewind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Double rewind. We're again changing our stance on. On this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, so if we were going to name this episode today, Small Foreign Faction I just think is such a fucking tight name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, perfect. A Small Foreign Faction gets it all said and it keeps you wanting more simultaneously.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But this one, if we were to name it today, it's something I still think about and still comes up in my head every time I hear it. We could call this episode Scream Sneezer for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Scream Sneezer was one of those things. When you and I started discussing it, people, people online really like this conversation because it was like, it gave people a chance to either accuse their, like, loved one of being one or tell their own personal story or admit they were or defend themselves. There's a lot of Scream Sneezers who are like, I can't help it. And, you know. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then, like, I be a little more aware of it. I realized I am, since then, that I am a Scream Yawner. And that is a whole. That's a whole nother fucking therapy session for me. Have you heard me scream?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yawn. Not scream, but like, I know that that is. I mean, like, I know you're just trying to catch your breath, but there have been. Yeah, there have been some loud ones for yawns that are supposed to be on the quieter side.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's ridiculous. Okay, what else we got?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, Angry Complaining. Oh, basically that. I was talking about that there's a new format for the show and Angry Complaining would be the new top of show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that should be its own podcast completely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I think that is podcasts in general.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's then older sister corner, of course, because that's what we talk about all the time. And yeah, we need, we need to know what Laura and Leah think about the podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right? Yeah. The foundation of this podcast was built on bossy older sisters and sister relationships in general. Like, it's the sisters that got us where we are today, for sure. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If we were weren't traumatized so incredibly by our older sisters, we wouldn't be where we are today.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you've got to know that that pain really does get planted deep into the soil of life experience. And up grows a beautiful podcast for you too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, well, thanks you guys for listening to this episode of Rewind. We really appreciate you guys like inviting another episode into your week and your life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My God, especially you people who listen to listen to it the first time more than once. I feel like there's people that are really out there doing triple and quadruple duty. And to you, we say thank you. Especially thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much. And we also say, stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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