Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 36: Live from LA Podcast Festival

Summary

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 36: Live from LA Podcast Festival
Release Date: March 12, 2025

---

Introduction: Revisiting the First Live Show

In this special rewind episode, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark delve into one of their earliest milestones: Episode 36, titled "Live from LA Podcast Festival." Hosted by iHeartPodcasts and part of the Exactly Right podcast network, My Favorite Murder has long been celebrated for its unique blend of true crime storytelling and comedic banter. This episode revisits their inaugural live show, providing fresh commentary, case updates, and behind-the-scenes revelations.

---

Behind the Scenes: Preparing for Live

Karen and Georgia reminisce about the preparations and anxieties leading up to their first live podcast at the LA Podcast Festival. Georgia shares her memory driving to the venue while trying to apply makeup in her car, expressing frustration over life's unpredictable challenges:

• Georgia Hardstark [02:22]: "I can still remember driving to that live show from work, trying to put on makeup in the car as I go to this, our first live show."

Karen discusses her resourcefulness in fulfilling a promise to bring a stuffed Elvis to recreate their podcast environment:

• Karen Kilgariff [05:13]: "And I was like, excuse me, don't you have some 6th grade teacher hand knit a Siamese cat... Elvis is here."

The tension backstage is palpable as Vince expresses his nervousness about the live performance:

• Vince [06:51]: "I'm nervous."

Karen attempts to calm him down, leading to humorous exchanges that set the tone for the live event.

---

Guest Appearance: Dave Anthony of The Dollop

Their first live show featured a special guest, Dave Anthony, co-host of The Dollop, adding a layer of camaraderie and shared passion for true crime. The trio engages in storytelling, each recounting harrowing true crime cases with their signature blend of humor and empathy.

---

True Crime Spotlight: David Carpenter – The Trailside Killer

Dave Anthony takes the lead in recounting the chilling case of David Carpenter, known as the Trailside Killer. The narrative covers Carpenter's troubled upbringing, marked by abuse and neglect, which ultimately spiraled into a life of crime:

• Dave Anthony [20:53]: "But no one knows about that one."

Carpenter's modus operandi involved targeting hikers in Northern California, with Carpenter evading capture for years due to initial investigative oversights:

• Karen Kilgariff [56:27]: "But Jennifer Mori is, like, one of my real Housewives, only she did something way cooler."

The podcast delves into Carpenter's eventual downfall, highlighting procedural lapses that delayed his arrest:

• Dave Anthony [58:56]: "There's no updates for this story. It's been over for a long time."

---

True Crime Spotlight: Gordon Northcott – Wineville Chicken Coop Murders

Karen Kilgariff passionately narrates the sordid tale of the Wineville Chicken Coop murders, drawing parallels to the Clint Eastwood film The Changeling. The story unfolds Gordon Northcott's heinous crimes, involving the abduction and murder of young boys, and the subsequent cover-up spearheaded by corrupt LAPD officials:

• Karen Kilgariff [75:03]: "It's a scariest thing."

The couple discusses the systemic corruption within the LAPD during the 1920s, exacerbating the inability to solve the murders promptly. Karen emphasizes the profound impact these crimes had on the community, leading to the town's name change from Wineville to Miraloma:

• Karen Kilgariff [67:29]: "That's how huge this was. And bad it was."

---

True Crime Spotlight: Mark Aaron Rust – Australian Serial Killer

Georgia Hardstark presents the disturbing case of Mark Aaron Rust, an Australian serial killer whose crimes spanned from the late 1990s to the early 2000s. Rust's predatory behavior targeted young women, culminating in multiple rapes and murders:

• Vince [94:50]: "So he was charged seven times with indecency offenses, but was only fined, never convicted."

The discussion highlights Rust's evasion tactics, including manipulating witness testimonies and exploiting legal loopholes, which allowed him to continue his killing spree until his eventual capture and life sentences:

• Dave Anthony [112:59]: "He's still alive too."

---

Audience Interaction and Reflections

Throughout the live event, Karen, Georgia, and Dave engage with the audience, navigating humorous interruptions and spontaneous interactions. These moments underscore the dynamic nature of live podcasting, balancing the gravity of true crime stories with lighthearted banter:

• Georgia Hardstark [90:16]: "It's the scariest thing."

---

Case Updates and Ongoing Impact

The hosts provide updates on the discussed cases, revealing long-term consequences and current statuses:

• David Carpenter remains on death row at 94 years old, facing ongoing legal proceedings.
• Gordon Northcott's case remains a haunting chapter in true crime history, with lasting effects on community trust in law enforcement.
• Mark Aaron Rust continues to serve life sentences in Australia, maintaining his place as one of the country's most notorious criminals.

---

Conclusion: Evolution of the Podcast

Karen and Georgia reflect on their growth as podcasters, commending each other's abilities to handle sensitive true crime narratives with compassion and wit. They acknowledge the challenges of live performances but celebrate the enduring success of My Favorite Murder in bringing compelling true crime stories to a broad audience.

• Karen Kilgariff [93:48]: "Tell us, tell us everything."

They express gratitude to their guest, Dave Anthony, for his invaluable contribution to the live show and reaffirm their commitment to delivering thought-provoking and entertaining content.

---

Notable Quotes

• Karen Kilgariff [02:02]: "That's right, it is Wednesday, so we are recapping one of our old shows with all new commentary and case updates and emotional reveals."
• Georgia Hardstark [16:07]: "Why didn't we have Dave do one? Why didn't you or I do one? I don't know."
• Dave Anthony [16:30]: "He's been doing podcasts so long, he's just there, like, how are we gonna make this a good podcast, ultimately?"
• Vince [20:53]: "This is our first guest favorite murder."
• Karen Kilgariff [67:29]: "That's how huge this was. And bad it was. It was 1926."

---

Final Thoughts

My Favorite Murder continues to be a cornerstone in the true crime comedy genre, adeptly balancing macabre storytelling with genuine empathy and humor. This rewind episode not only revisits significant moments from their formative years but also reinforces the hosts' dedication to uncovering and sharing some of the most riveting true crime cases.

---

Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and adheres to the guidelines of avoiding non-content segments such as advertisements and intros. All notable quotes are attributed with their respective timestamps for reference.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

At the Hyundai Getaway sales event, get deals so right it almost feels wrong.

[Dave Anthony]

Now's the best time to get that Hyundai car or SUV you've always wanted.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plus, every new Hyundai comes with America's best warranty and three years or 36,000 miles of limited complimentary maintenance.

[Dave Anthony]

Don't think you can get away with all that?

[Vince]

Think again.

[Dave Anthony]

But don't wait.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Hyundai Getaway sales event is going on now, so visit your local Hyundai dealer today.

[Dave Anthony]

It's a great day for a new Hyundai.

[Vince]

Goodbye.

[Dave Anthony]

Growing up, Melissa had the perfect life until she discovered her father's dark secret. He was the notorious Happy Face Killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Experience a thrilling new Paramount original series inspired by a true life story.

[Dave Anthony]

Now, when Melissa's father confesses to a new murder, she must choose between protecting her secret and risking everything to uncover the truth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Annaleigh Ashford and Dennis Quaid star in.

[Dave Anthony]

Happy Face new series streaming March 20, exclusively on Paramount.

[Melissa]

When you haven't found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song, and all the pda. Looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California Psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one. We guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 20 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty. California Psychics.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now, this one.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, this one's so long. Why didn't we make this two episodes?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why in God's name would we have Dave do his own whole fucking story?

[Dave Anthony]

I don't. Or why wasn't it just Dave doing his own whole story? Like, what the fuck were we thinking?

[Karen Kilgariff]

My savior.

[Dave Anthony]

Hello, hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right, it is Wednesday, so we are recapping one of our old shows with all new commentary and case updates and emotional reveals.

[Dave Anthony]

Now, this one is crazy. We're recapping episode 36, which we named live from the LA Podcast Festival because it was our first live show.

[Vince]

First live show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amazing. I can still remember driving to that live show from work, trying to put on makeup in the car as I go to this, our first live show. And it was like, why can't I? Like, nothing in my life is set up so that the things I should be prioritizing are prioritized for, first and foremost.

[Dave Anthony]

My appearance or you and yourself and your own ambitions?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nope. To pay those bills.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Anyway, so on this episode, we're joined by our very first guest, comedian and fellow podcaster, co host of the Dollop, Dave, Anthony, and even he tells a story. As we were complaining earlier.

[Dave Anthony]

Everyone gets an hour. So get comfy and join us as we take you back to September 29, 2016, which, of course, would also have been the 258th birthday of British naval hero Admiral Nelson.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We must celebrate Admiral Nelson. He joined the Navy when he was 12 years old.

[Dave Anthony]

Who is that? Allison Agassi putting that in there? I don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She originally put in. It was the birthday, whatever, birthday of Kevin Durant. And I was like, george and I don't really follow basketball. And then we look. She goes, I know, but nobody else was born on this day. And we look, it's Halsey and it's Kevin Durant and it's Admiral Nelson, and everybody else is like a YouTube star that you and I have not heard of.

[Dave Anthony]

I've never heard of Admiral Nelson, so it's fine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But he joined the Navy when he was 12.

[Vince]

Aw, little baby.

[Dave Anthony]

All right, let's do this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's time for the intro of episode 36, which is the first live anything we've ever done. Let's see how we do.

[Vince]

All right. We did this wrong. All right, there's trash. Just don't worry about the trash.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Glamorous, classy, professional. Hi, welcome to my favorite Murder Live every. Hey, everybody.

[Vince]

What? We had them.

[Audience Member]

What?

[Vince]

We had them. Recreate my apartment on stage.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Georgia's blue curtains are gorgeous.

[Vince]

Oh, my God. Can we talk about this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Can we please fuck.

[Vince]

Karen, tell me everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, last week when we were talking about how we are gonna come and do a live podcast, and we were talking about all the things we needed to do and bring and have to recreate the same environment that we have in Georgia's hot, hot apartment when we record every week. And Georgia made a joke and said, I guess I'll buy a cage to bring Elvis. And I said, or you could just have him stuffed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her heart broke in front of me. And now I'm that friend. So I've been trying to think for like six days, trying to think like, you gotta make good on that piece of bullshit. And then I remembered that I'm a compulsive vintage thrift store shopper and I got shit like this laying around by the dozens. And I was like, excuse me, don't you have some 6th grade teacher hand knit a Siamese cat and it's just been sitting in a closet for like fucking seven years? And the answer was, yes, Elvis is here.

[Vince]

When I saw that backstage, I was like, I'm not Supposed to see that. And if I looked at it, I'm going to cry. So I didn't. Because it's so sweet and so I didn't look at it.

[Audience Member]

Ow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What happened?

[Vince]

I was trying to move my. Okay, there we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you gotten a good look at it? Cuz there's truly about four years of dust right on the top. You guys can see that meant a lot.

[Vince]

Karen, thank you so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I would have dusted it off, but I was running late.

[Vince]

And if you know my apart, you don't know my apartment. This is the most perfect thing for my apartment.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's going to match everything.

[Vince]

It's like a grandma and there's like sea foam happening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a sea foamy apartment.

[Vince]

Everything. It makes me so. Thank you so much, Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're welcome.

[Vince]

I got you a nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So sorry. I'm gonna catch a moonbeam in my pocket. Save it for.

[Vince]

This is our first live show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look at it.

[Vince]

Thank you. You guys, I'm nervous. I'm nervous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you nervous?

[Vince]

I'm nervous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's talk it through.

[Vince]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What do you think could happen? That's nerve wracking.

[Vince]

It already happened.

[Audience Member]

What?

[Vince]

No, nothing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dusty cat picture.

[Vince]

No, nothing, nothing. Everything's good. This is great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But what's your. We're just working through worst fears.

[Vince]

I mean, Marty comes to mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ex boyfriend. Right there where you can't stop making eye contact.

[Vince]

Well, that's his fault, not yours.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good one. You know what's yours?

[Vince]

Mine is saying something so stupid and then like silence. You know what I mean? Everyone laugh at that, please. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow, Jeb Bush. That canta felt good. Everybody laugh at that.

[Vince]

Because when you're. When we're doing it in my apartment, it's like we're just talking to each other.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, let's just.

[Vince]

I'm gonna pretend we're talking to each other.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good plan.

[Vince]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because you still have to talk to me. I insist.

[Vince]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. We're very excited. It's obviously we can't do our normal house cleaning. I mean. Housekeeping. Oops, I messed up my line already.

[Vince]

Housekeeping.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Housekeeping.

[Vince]

Housekeeping. Do you have any?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't. Oh yes, I have one. But it's like heartfelt and touching. Housekeeping.

[Vince]

Go, go, go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it. It has nothing to do with me not knowing the capital of Norway or whatever the fuck ignorance is exposed on this goddamn podcast every week. I used to think I was super smart. You should have seen me fucking playing Jeopardy at home and shit. Now I'm like A shell of a woman. So Dustin, the head of Feral Audio, forwarded this email to us the other.

[Vince]

Day, who also brought us fucking flowers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he brought us double roses, you guys. Yeah, that's right. That's exactly how you do it. Who's that character? So this is the email he sent, and it says some of you will recognize this if you've listened to the podcast recently. Hi, Karen and Georgia. Oh, my God. Just heard your podcast about me. You two made me cry and feel so honored. While my attack was horrible, hearing you two reminded me that my story might help other women. Thank you for this gift tonight. It's been 21 years. I'm raising my son and daughter, trying to prepare them for a crazy world. My attack is now part of my DNA, just who I am. But you honored me by reminding me, even me, that stories of survival remind us all of the gift of life and challenge of our survival. Call me. And she gave us her phone number. It's Jennifer Mori, the chick who. Yeah, the woman who got attacked by the security guard story. Who held her open neck open, closed with a towel.

[Vince]

She doesn't hate us. She wants us to call her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She is super into it.

[Vince]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're gonna fucking call her, dude. We can't do it now. That'd be weird. Invasion of privacy. Jennifer, we're all here. Hey, Jennifer, what color towel held your neck together?

[Vince]

That's bananas. Because, like, I feel like we're both always afraid that we're, like, you know, we don't want to make any victims feel that we're just, like, exploiting them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's so many. There's so many potholes to fall into. So many.

[Vince]

This is just like, I know you were really happy to get this, like, nice email from someone that we talked. Like, that's bananas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, also, I'm so obsessed with the show. I survived that. Jennifer.

[Vince]

Right, that's that, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But Jennifer Mori is, like, one of my real Housewives, only she did something way cooler.

[Vince]

Cooler.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like she's a badass.

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also probably a housewife, so.

[Vince]

Yeah, she deserves to be a housewife at this point, though. I mean, like, take your day off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's the cool thing is she's an attorney, so. And she's a victims rights advocate, so she's going for it.

[Vince]

We have no excuse.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have to leave this podcast festival right now and help someone.

[Vince]

Let's go, all of us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We just make everyone leave the podcast.

[Vince]

And become victims rights advocates.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tonight, Children.

[Vince]

Tonight.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tonight, near the Beverly center, there's A.

[Vince]

Van outside signing everyone up. And we'll know if you don't do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like there was another thing that we were supposed to mention.

[Vince]

You guys, you're used to this already. Except Steven edits this part out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right.

[Vince]

I'm gonna get pulled on the podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Drink it in. All right. I guess we just bring out our guests.

[Vince]

No, let's just do it. We only have 90 minutes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So after we interview each and every one of you, I think then we're going to go to the cards. Well, our guest tonight, excitingly enough, is one of the hosts of the Dollop, and he's my first comedy boyfriend. So please welcome the stage, Dave Anthony. Yay.

[Vince]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Audience Member]

Hi. Hi.

[Vince]

Hi, Dave.

[Audience Member]

You guys are at a table, and I'm over here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Vince]

Get in here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's scoot it on over.

[Audience Member]

I can't get out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Charlie Rose. This thing.

[Vince]

Charlie Rose, sciatica.

[Audience Member]

How is that, by the way? I had a friend in New York who had the sciatica thing.

[Vince]

How did she cure it?

[Audience Member]

Oh, she didn't make it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's awful news.

[Audience Member]

I probably shouldn't have brought that up.

[Vince]

Sake.

[Audience Member]

You know what? I don't remember how she. But you probably get a lot of suggestions.

[Vince]

I'm getting so many. But very nice ones. Thank you, everyone.

[Audience Member]

That's good, because it's a she. I remember her going through it. It was. It was terrible.

[Vince]

Sucks. What are you gonna do?

[Audience Member]

Yeah, I had a little back thing.

[Vince]

You know, some people have war in their country, so it's hard to complain about psychiatry.

[Audience Member]

You know what? Don't complain about your own pain, because people have been to war.

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

So.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, we are back. I mean, what a strong start.

[Dave Anthony]

I remember everything about that live show. It's like the last one I truly remember on its own. The other ones that we've done since then, kind of like a mishmash of moments.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

But maybe. Cause I was so nervous, but you also gave me that Siamese cat knit art.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Dave Anthony]

That was so unexpected and incredible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, and because I. I had basically threatened Elvis's life, you could interpret it that way if you chose to. So I did need to give a. Do a little makeup. But I also knew that, like, it's like, oh, we're so nervous, and we're so kind of concerned with what's going on that we're. I was afraid we weren't gonna do any of our normal stuff at. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That it was just.

[Dave Anthony]

We had no idea we didn't discuss.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And also we were in this conference room. Listener, let us describe it for you now, because we were in the Softeel Hotel, which is in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Downtown Hollywood, essentially.

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Up in a conference room.

[Dave Anthony]

Beautiful, fancy hotel.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A conference room that was fully lit. I could look into and probably describe to you the faces of the audience members that were there that night. And we didn't know, like, we were. That was part of LA Podcast Fest. So I was like, oh, these people were just already here. And they're just like, oh, we'll go see them too, right?

[Vince]

There's a break. Let's go see this podcast.

[Dave Anthony]

It was like. Do you think it was, like, 150 or 300 people?

[Vince]

What do you think? I mean, somewhere around there, it was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A pretty big conference room. I would say somewhere between two and 300 people.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, that sounds right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was a nice, big, you know, ovation. It didn't feel like there was, like, sparse seats, you know, empty seats or anything like that. It really did feel like we had a nice kind of thing going. But I do definitely remember beforehand when we were backstage, I turned to you and I was like, do you have the theme song? And you literally kind of, like. Kind of like smiled at me and walked away. Like, I think you were going into nerves or going into some sort of personal space of like, we're about to walk on stage and.

[Dave Anthony]

Meaning, you know, where I was going into is a fucking glass of champagne. That's where I was going into.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're like, I gotta get in here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause I was like, I should have thought about this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But now that we're standing here, like, when they say our name, we should go onto the theme song, because that's gonna help us a lot, you know, whatever. And thank God Stephen was backstage.

[Dave Anthony]

Steven. Yes. Steven saved the day as he's done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A million times, where he was kind of like, I got it. He's like, I think I have it. I don't know. And I'm like, will you just go find the person and make this happen? You know what we need? And he was like, yes. And he did it.

[Dave Anthony]

He did. Thank you, Steven. All right. So for some reason, we thought it'd be a great idea that night to let each one of us, you, me, and Dave, tell an entire story. Like, why didn't we have Dave do one? Why didn't you or I do one? I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Really strange. I think we were just kind of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, well, this is what he does.

[Georgia Hardstark]

On his podcast, right? We'll all do it together.

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was no, no concern about time.

[Dave Anthony]

No. This could have been two episodes.

[Vince]

Like why did we.

[Dave Anthony]

Why did we do this to ourselves?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, I think this was a very early us talking about the Trailside Killer and like the kind of stuff we were doing in. This is probably the height of the bad combination of comedy and true crime where really being casual and jokey about some of the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The Trailside Killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, at least personally. Cause I lived through it and like watched it on tv was a very, very traumatizing thing for kids in the North Bay to go through. And I think that's what Dave and I were kind of processing was just like this and kind of being able to retell it, you know, whatever it was 50 years later with that distance. But it also just really cringey. Some of these jokes are horrible.

[Dave Anthony]

Totally.

[Vince]

Totally.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean and all three of the cases that we cover are terrible and could stand alone. But let's get into Dave's story. He's first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Here's his story about the Trailside Killer. A sleek professional website makes you look very put together even when you're wearing sweatpants and eating cereal out of a mug.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And that's where Squarespace comes in.

[Dave Anthony]

Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer your services and get paid all in one place.

[Georgia Hardstark]

From consultations to experiences. Showcase your services with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business.

[Dave Anthony]

And managing those payments is a breeze. In just a few clicks, you'll be able to accept payments with options like Klarna, Apple Pay, afterpay, and more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You'll get paid on time with professional on brand invoices and online payments. Plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools.

[Dave Anthony]

And get discovered faster with Squarespace's built in SEO tools. With meta descriptions and auto generated site maps, you'll rank higher in search results globally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go to squarespace.com murder for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Vince]

That's squarespace.com murder code murder.

[Dave Anthony]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Dave Anthony]

There are a lot of things that help you feel at peace. A cup of tea, a great playlist.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Roasting a troll on the Internet. Ooh.

[Dave Anthony]

But the best thing for your peace of mind is knowing that your home is protected with SimpliSafe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With SimpliSafe, millions of Americans enjoy greater security and peace of mind every time they arm their system.

[Dave Anthony]

Traditional security systems only take action after someone has Broken in, that's. That's too late.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But with active guard outdoor protection, Simplisafe's monitoring agents closely watch your property and stop crimes before they happen.

[Dave Anthony]

The cameras use advanced AI to distinguish between friendly faces like family and neighbors and potential threats, alerting agents to suspicious individuals before they get close to your home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, now SimpliSafe is offering AI technology that can read faces. So your alarm isn't going to be going off because you know a raccoon walked by and sat on your front porch for a little while.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I turn mine on even when I go to walk. Cookie like mine is always on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Will they know about your neighbor that you don't want to talk to, though? I don't. I don't think that's something we can ask for. But in this day and age, that's the kind of technology that for a dollar a day, you're getting a bargain.

[Dave Anthony]

Visit simplisafe.com fave to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com fav there's no safe like SimpliSafe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Goodbye.

[Dave Anthony]

You may love the finer things in life, like soft cashmere, silk and effortlessly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Chic fashion, but your bank account probably doesn't always.

[Dave Anthony]

Fortunately, we have Quince.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With Quince, you can get quality luxury essentials without the hefty price tag, like their Mongolian cashmere sweater, starting at $50.

[Dave Anthony]

When you're looking at a piece on the Quince website, you can scroll down to see how other people have styled it and if they thought the fit was true to size or not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I feel like I need to apologize to people because I have one of those Quint Mongolian sweaters in the dark gray and I think I wear it every day or every other day. It's just like such a simple, perfect looking piece. But then it is the coziest sweater, especially through winter where you're like, this is the layer I want to have on me at all times. And I feel like that level of quality and being able to get it for $50. Quince cares about us. Feels like it's like they want us to be dressed nice and look cool and not go broke.

[Dave Anthony]

We should get seven of the same color for you so you can wear different ones every day of the week.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, I absolutely will.

[Dave Anthony]

Give yourself the luxury you deserve with quints.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go to Quince.com MFM for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Dave Anthony]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com MFM to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Quints.com MFM Goodbye.

[Vince]

Dave, will you please tell us about your favorite murder?

[Audience Member]

Oh, my God, David.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is our first guest favorite murder.

[Audience Member]

I went back and I was like, well, they've had to have a guest on and you guys had.

[Vince]

No, we don't very first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We expressly do not.

[Vince]

Yeah. Elvis and Steven are the only people we've had on the podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

So my favorite murder, by the way, I took a really great picture of us and I just posted it, I think.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did we know. That's gross.

[Audience Member]

It's me and. It's me and Georgia.

[Vince]

Am I picking my nose?

[Audience Member]

It's me and Georgia backstage. She is my favorite ghost, Georgina Hubostank.

[Vince]

Oh, there she is.

[Audience Member]

That's Georgina Hobo stank right there. Hubostank.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Spin off.

[Audience Member]

Oh, I turned off my fucking asshole.

[Vince]

I never called you a fucking asshole for that.

[Audience Member]

So I grew up near Karen. I grew up just south of her in a place called Marin County. And in Marin county, we have a place called Mount Tamil Pius.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just the one.

[Dave Anthony]

Been there.

[Audience Member]

Some really fucking great things happen. I'm not failing Pius.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

Oh, this says shark attacks. So let's bring up the actual one. I've got to go to my email.

[Vince]

We didn't tell you. There's no notes.

[Audience Member]

No, you guys have been.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You guys have been reading.

[Audience Member]

You guys have been reading Wikipedia. I've been listening. It's not as fluid and as crazy.

[Vince]

It used to be.

[Audience Member]

Right? And then you get Correction corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It's made us millions of dollars.

[Audience Member]

I do a carefully crafted podcast, which makes us much less money than that. Okay, that sounds boring, but it's.

[Vince]

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[Audience Member]

Some guy. Some guy one time on Twitter. All of a sudden, he comes out of nowhere and he goes, you get a stupid podcast. You just read Wikipedia. You talk about it. I was like, yeah. I mean, I don't know.

[Vince]

That's your new tag.

[Audience Member]

That's what I'm doing.

[Vince]

All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's fun.

[Vince]

That's it.

[Audience Member]

But then I got. I got in trouble, so I don't do that anymore. Okay. So I put a date on May 6, 1930. Yay. I can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's called a crossover.

[Audience Member]

I can't not do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's called a mashup. It's called the crossover. It's called a mixtape.

[Audience Member]

Okay, so David Carpenter, and you obviously know I was doing this one because who else would I do? From Marin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

So he's born in San Francisco, raised by very strict and aggressive parents. Alcoholic father beat him up, neglected him. His mother was very domineering and nearly blind.

[Vince]

So that's like how to make a murderer.

[Audience Member]

I mean, 101. I mean, how did not. Murder at three.

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, blind and aggressive. What does that look like? What does it feel like?

[Vince]

It's messy.

[Audience Member]

There's a lot of punching of you. And then, like, a wall.

[Vince]

A lot of lamps broken in that house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not a flower stayed in a vase through his whole childhood.

[Audience Member]

Get over here.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm punching things.

[Audience Member]

So when he was 7, he was stuttering so badly, he had a difficult time in any social situation. See what she just did? I just told her backstage. That's why we don't do terrible, really, really terrible murders on the dollar. Because neither I or Gareth would go, oh, ever. And then it's a different show where you're like, fuck are these guys doing?

[Vince]

It's called humanity.

[Audience Member]

Oh, look, empathy helps empathy. So he's stuttering horribly. Then he was being ridiculed, which made him painfully reclusive. And to get him over this, his parents forced him into extracurricular activities.

[Vince]

Been there.

[Audience Member]

Such as piano and ballet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, dude, that old blind bitch. Fuck her. Seriously, that is passive aggression, if not overt aggression.

[Vince]

She can't even see him doing ballet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How does she enjoy that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Purely for the humiliation.

[Vince]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Audience Member]

So, oddly, that did not help his crippling stutter. He then began to take out his frustrations on animals, and he became a bedwetter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ding dong. We've got two. We've got two so far. When does he hit his head in ballet class to give us the magic majestic trifecta of serial killing?

[Audience Member]

Then when he became a teenager, he started molesting children. He was arrested for molesting his two cousins, 3 and 8. He served a year for that crime.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good.

[Vince]

Oh, as you do.

[Audience Member]

You're gonna enjoy the sentences in this one. And then he was released. He became even more of a predator. Continued molesting until he met a woman, Ellen Heatle, who had no sense of anything and got married. She's like, you seem so fucking weird and your family is crazy. Let's get married.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want to lock this down.

[Audience Member]

He. He worked at different jobs. He was a ship's purser.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My dad was a ship's purser.

[Audience Member]

He is. I have no idea what it is. I think you run around giving ladies purses.

[Vince]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It'S gopher. From the Love Boat. You just carry bags and stuff.

[Audience Member]

That's it. So you're like a bellboy on a ship, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly.

[Audience Member]

Okay.

[Vince]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Audience Member]

I wasn't sure what it was. I just. I assumed someone here would know.

[Dave Anthony]

Karen.

[Vince]

Turns out it's Karen.

[Audience Member]

He was also a salesman and a printer. He had a very serious need for sex and was very demanding. He needed to have sex three times a night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He waved it.

[Audience Member]

He.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He saved it all till the night.

[Vince]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He wouldn't sprinkle it throughout.

[Vince]

One morning. One after, like, come on, everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on.

[Audience Member]

Near it at night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Audience Member]

Night hours. He's a. He's a night.

[Vince]

Trying to read a book over here.

[Audience Member]

When you do what you do, and I'll do what I do. Come. So I always find the build up to people fascinating. How they got there in the dollop. It's always. And then their mother, father died when they were three. Every story. Yes, Everyone. And then I assume you guys get a lot of bedwetters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Vince]

Oh, yeah. Hitting heads all the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mean dads, bedwetters, stepdads.

[Vince]

Fucking crazy.

[Audience Member]

So he had three children with her, and then he began prowling again. In 1960, he became friends with a woman, Lois Deandre. No, Diondrade. And he invited her to meet his wife and started including her in their lives. Then one day he took her to work, but instead of doing that, he drove her to a wooded area of the Presidio, which at that time was an army base, and pretended like he was lost. At some point, he grabbed her, straddled her, bound her with a clothesline, and using a knife, he threatened her and forced her to be still. He said he had still. He said he had a funny quirk that needed to be satisfied.

[Vince]

Real funny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not ballet, right?

[Audience Member]

It's not. And then he put on a tutu.

[Vince]

This is terrible.

[Audience Member]

She then tried to get away, and so he hit her several times with a hammer.

[Vince]

Oh, fuck.

[Audience Member]

Now, before and during the incident, he completely lost his stutter. His speech was slow and deliberate and angry.

[Vince]

Wow.

[Audience Member]

Yeah. Thankfully, there was an MP on the base. And he was very suspicious watching the.

[Vince]

Car, watching a woman getting hit in the fucking car.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, I don't like the light look to that knife. I don't know.

[Vince]

I would. Me too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She seems to be crying near the knife.

[Audience Member]

So. And then he heard the cries for help and he was near. So he came over and Carpenter got out of the car and shot at him and missed. And then the MP shot back and hit Carpenter in the leg and I think the back. Carpenter was arrested, but he said his excuse was that he blacked out during the whole attack, which is solid.

[Vince]

Yeah, let him go.

[Audience Member]

It's a solid excuse.

[Vince]

Yeah. Oops.

[Audience Member]

I don't remember hitting her with a hammer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think I was napping.

[Audience Member]

He was given a 14 year sentence.

[Vince]

Not.

[Audience Member]

That's it. That's the story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Oh, well, thanks for being here, Danny.

[Audience Member]

And then for some reason, his wife divorced him. I don't know why. During his stay in prison, psychiatrists reported that Carpenter has a, quote, sociopathic personality disorder and an IQ of 125.

[Vince]

That's too many IQs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That amount makes me nervous. That many?

[Vince]

That's more than me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For sure.

[Dave Anthony]

More than I.

[Audience Member]

In 1969, he was freed after nine years being a catch. He remarried four months after getting out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, but look, he had been doing push ups and he got that one tattoo and he was like, I'm gonna put a cigarette in the corner of my mouth and stuff.

[Audience Member]

You think it sounds bad, but then if you see prison trim, like just a trim, dude, you're like, all right, well, yeah, the other stuff, the stutter, the killing of animals, the molestation, the beating of a woman with a hammer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, that's the toe shoes.

[Audience Member]

He looks good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He looks past it. You can look past it.

[Audience Member]

Yeah. But in under a year, he returned to his ways and the marriage was over. Then he hit a woman with it. So he. He drives. So there's a woman driving and he hits her car, and then he pulls her out of it and starts ripping her clothes off in the middle of the road.

[Vince]

Terrified of this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This.

[Vince]

I think about this all the time.

[Audience Member]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, like someone intentionally hitting your car so they can pull all your clothes off.

[Audience Member]

Oh. I mean, but who doesn't? They. They, like. I was at State Farm Insurance the other day and they brought that up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a common accident situation.

[Audience Member]

Yeah. They're like, have you. I know you've been any fender benders, but has anybody ripped your clothes off? And I was like, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you been any.

[Audience Member]

Thankfully, not yet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was a bender pulley offer. What?

[Vince]

Where are you?

[Audience Member]

I'm going to describe that as a unique anxiety that you have. So she fought him and then he stabbed her. She somehow managed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have anxiety about that. I'm a weirdo that way.

[Audience Member]

She managed to get back in her car and get away and she got his license plate. Yeah, that kind of shit fucking amazes.

[Vince]

Can she email us and tell her to call us?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, she probably had, like, crazy, like, 30, 20 vision. And she was just, like. Just, like, blowing people up with her mind. It's like, you're gonna fucking. You're gonna pull my clothes off. I'll fucking memorize every letter on your license plate.

[Vince]

Amazing. His license plate was like a vanity plate of, like, kill. I'm a killer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love to kill one.

[Audience Member]

So figuring that he was probably up Schitt's creek at this point, he broke into a home, kidnapped and raped a woman, and stole her car. Two days later, he snatched Sharon O'Donnell and held her with a shotgun. But when he tried to switch license plates on his car, she escaped. He then stole another car. Later that day, he kidnapped and raped another woman. And he was arrested later that day. This is February 3rd, 1970.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was going for it.

[Audience Member]

Top day.

[Vince]

You have those days where, like, I'm gonna fucking tick every check mark on my to do list.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm going to get shit done today. I'm sick of it. Go to Home Depot. I will drop those clothes off at the Goodwill. I will rape a ton of people. I just have to do it.

[Vince]

Oh, no. This is the podcast where we get thrown because we're just, like, being so mean right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Too bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't live that way. I can't live under that pressure. I've got to. I've got to to be me.

[Vince]

That's why this works. That's why this works.

[Audience Member]

So he was sentenced to seven years for kidnap and robbery, and he pled out. He also received two more years for his parole violations. He got out in May 1979, but was not listed as a sex offender.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Audience Member]

I mean, why would you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, he didn't do anything.

[Vince]

I mean, he offended, but it wasn't sexual.

[Audience Member]

He took up hiking as a hobby.

[Vince]

Alone in the woods. Perfect.

[Audience Member]

But not like other people. He liked the seclusion of the wilderness.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it to dress like a clown. He was a clown hiker.

[Audience Member]

He liked to grab women. So that's the perfect place. Just three months after being released, while living at a halfway house, he committed his first murder. On August 19, 1979, Etta Kane, 44, was walking on the trails of Mount Tamalpais, which overlooks Golden Gate Bridge, which is also where I grew up, riding mountain bikes right next to my house, which is also where I asked my wife to marry me. I didn't tell her this part.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's why it works.

[Audience Member]

I mean, I love you. And there's some other stuff we'll get to later. Like a week. We'll talk about it, but this is a weird spot. So Etta was alone, wagging. She was attacked from behind, forced to get on her knees and beg for her life. And then he shot her in the back of the head, execution style. Yeah. Her body was found the next day. He had taken $10 from her wallet, credit cards and her glasses and left very little evidence. Witnesses said they saw two lone men. One was blonde and acting strange. The other had on a dark blue jacket that made him sweat and he hid his face.

[Vince]

Which one is it?

[Audience Member]

I mean, clearly the guy walking around acting strange is smoking pot and the guy hiding his face is the fucking killer. Yeah, well, there's one guy I can wear with his blonde, and there's another.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Guy that's like also wearing a jacket when it's hot. It creeps me out so bad. That immediately gave me a stomachache to think about that.

[Audience Member]

Yeah, only the fucked up people wear.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jackets when it's just like a weird jacket.

[Audience Member]

No, you're a murderer. They should be able to just arrest people wearing jackets on.

[Vince]

You're a murderer or you're anorexic and you're fucking cold all the time. Seek some help, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Either way, they should arrest them both.

[Vince]

Totally.

[Audience Member]

I just spit on my iPad.

[Vince]

Said from us.

[Audience Member]

So this guy was clearly carpenter. For a brief time, people living in the area were freaked out, including young Dave Anthony. But then things went back to normal like nothing happened. Everything went by and then everyone started started walking the trails again. He was released from the halfway house he was living in. So when he did that, he was living in a halfway house and he went to live with his parents.

[Vince]

Remember, be proud of him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Old blind bitch and whoever the dad was.

[Audience Member]

Yeah, why would you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, you gotta go to the source.

[Vince]

She's like, you can live here again, but you have to do ballet more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Put on this apron.

[Audience Member]

He somehow found a way to pass as a normal productive citizen. He took courses in computer printing at a trade school and graduated with a degree. Then in spring, he went back to killing in marching. Prints is boring, right? You get stuff done and then you're like, I gotta get back to my hobby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This computer printing is really stressing me out. I gotta relax.

[Audience Member]

In March, 23 year old Barbara Schwartz was walking on Mount Tam when a thin, athletic man walked up to Schwartz and her dog started barking at him. He had dark hair and wore hiking boots. He quickly just started stabbing her with his 10 inch knife.

[Vince]

Fuck, man.

[Audience Member]

She was stabbed 12 times. She collapsed and he ran off and she was dead. Now, the reason we know this is because this was all seen by a woman who was standing in the trees.

[Vince]

Wait, what?

[Audience Member]

Watching. So some woman just was sitting there.

[Vince]

Standing in the trees?

[Audience Member]

I mean, look, everybody's a weirdo.

[Vince]

That was a misprint in the fucking newspaper. I just promise you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What they didn't say is she had a wet nightgown on. Ma'am, are you all right? There haven't been women around here in 25 years.

[Vince]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Woman in the tree. What a terrible story this is.

[Vince]

And that's. That's the. The tag on of our podcast. What a terrible story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A terrible story.

[Audience Member]

It's not a great one. I never thought I'd be reading this in front of 400 people.

[Vince]

This is not 400 people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's.

[Audience Member]

Now that's your anxiety talking. So. Right. Seen by women in the trees. Unfortunately, she described Carpenter horribly, and the investigation would be misled for years because of her terrible description.

[Vince]

Shocking. She's crazy.

[Audience Member]

Other people. Other people in the area said they saw a man wearing glasses who looked about 40. That was Carpenter. The knife was on decades later.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Could that woman have been like an egret or something? They're just like a bird standing in the forest. That's a terrible description. So, mustache? Yes. I don't. Okay.

[Audience Member]

So the knife was found days later, and a TV reporter handled it, destroying the fingerprints.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, this is 1970.

[Audience Member]

This is 79.

[Vince]

The guy's like, touching, touching. He's just like super into touching things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a story. They're gonna love this. Across the bay. 1979 is not that long ago. No, this isn't jacked up.

[Audience Member]

We totally had fingerprints figured out at.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Point, but other than that, just touch away whoever gets there first.

[Audience Member]

Carpenter also lost his prison issued glasses during the attack. And what's so crazy is I, as a child, from the sketches, I totally remember the glasses. Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

You're wearing them right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Audience Member]

I mean, weird time to bring up, this is my hero. So the next day, he went to an optometrist, Barbara Schwartz. Optometrist, the woman he had killed to get new glasses.

[Vince]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On purpose.

[Dave Anthony]

No, no.

[Audience Member]

Total. Just happenstance.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What the fuck?

[Audience Member]

Now? He had a very unique prescription. And had the optometrist who was questioned by police been told about his unique prescription. He probably wouldn't have been able to finger Carpenter right there and then. And they had the glasses because the glasses came off. So the cops had the prescription, but they never thought to be like, what do you think about a 70? 30?

[Vince]

Oh, my God.

[Audience Member]

So now Again, people living around the area totally freaked out, not going near Mount Tam again. And then again, time goes by and people start going back to Mount Tam. The flowers are so pretty, it's hard to stay away. There's great trees and there's a woman standing and they grit like woman standing with a wet robe.

[Vince]

Wet robe. It's fine.

[Audience Member]

So on October 15th, 26 year old Ann Alderson was sitting alone watching the sunset.

[Vince]

Don't do it.

[Audience Member]

A witness saw her and also saw a weird 50 year old man, but decided against warning her.

[Vince]

Oh, well.

[Audience Member]

But I'm sure he led a fine life with just him and his bottle of whiskey. Just sitting there going, ugh, glug, glug, glug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's horrifying.

[Audience Member]

You would never forgive yourself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You were that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of course not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's awful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the thing is like, just be rude. Go up to people and be like, hi, I know this makes me the weirdo, but there's a weirdo over there.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, you make the call who you hate or run away from, but as a dude.

[Audience Member]

As a dude, you walk over, go, hey, there's a really weird guy. Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come in close while I describe the guy.

[Vince]

Can I drive you home?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let me drive you away from the cre.

[Audience Member]

He's got curly hair and glasses and like gray pants and a maroon. I. I totally understand why you wouldn't say it, but I also just.

[Vince]

What are the fucking chances, man, that you see a weird. Like I see a weirdo multiple times a day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Vince]

Looking in the mirror.

[Audience Member]

Okay, so Anne was an escalation. She was raped and then allowed to dress again and then shot with a single bullet through the head. He took her right earring and then propped her up to make it look like she was sitting against a rock. She also appeared to have been shot while begging for her life. And he was just getting rolling. Shana Mae was supposed to meet friends on November 28th in Point Reyes National Seashore to go hiking. She was found two days later. She was nude and had been raped and bound with picture frame wire. Shot three times in the head and dumped into a trench.

[Vince]

Right.

[Audience Member]

Besides her body was a second young woman, 22 year old Diana O'Connell. She had also gone missing, this time while hiking with friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What? What? What? What? What?

[Audience Member]

Oh, this is the worst. One of her friends was faster and got ahead of her on the path. And her other friends.

[Vince]

Am I wrong?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's kind of a. I'm not wrong. You're not wrong.

[Audience Member]

You're not because I had total empathy for that person. I was like, man, she just wanted to get to the top.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you guys, congratulations.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're up there.

[Vince]

Yeah, we're talking about, like, my new boy I'm dating. And you're just like, bye, bye. Fuck you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Watch my calves, Rei. Fuck you.

[Audience Member]

Okay, then what about her other friend who was slower, that was behind her?

[Vince]

Oh, no.

[Audience Member]

Who's the cunt now?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't choose anymore. There's so many to pick from.

[Audience Member]

It's a weird thing to go hiking with your friends and then you all split up.

[Vince]

We don't do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's why I don't hike or have friends. It's not worth it.

[Audience Member]

So she also disappeared. Her friends saw nothing because they were so far heading behind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So either friend. It was as if they were all going. And then the middle, they got to.

[Audience Member]

The top and they're like, where is she?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's horrifying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yoink.

[Vince]

Like, off the trail and it was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Supposed to be horrifying. Yeah, yeah.

[Audience Member]

Diana had been shot twice in the head. A hiker nearby heard all the shots, and it appears Carpenter had killed them both. The girls, at the same time. Wait, so the two girls are sitting side by side in a trench and he had killed them both at once? Yeah. A Diana had also been strangled and raped. The police concluded one of the women had interrupted Carpenter attacking the other woman. So he killed them both?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. Just really quick. I wish I could. We had a slideshow of Mount Tam right now because it is the most gorgeous place. It's so beautiful.

[Audience Member]

The place where they take all the. All the pictures of San Francisco where you. Of the Golden Gate Bridge and then you see San Francisco behind it. That's Mount Tam?

[Vince]

Yeah. Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. It's got redwood trees. It's like. It's got. It's the most for natural, you know. What a wonder. I mean, it's just the most incredible one. Like, we would go on field trips there all the time in grammar school.

[Audience Member]

Mountain bikes were invented there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Really?

[Audience Member]

Yeah. Mountain bikes are invented.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the idea that this man is that fucking, like, angry that he's going to like, God's most, most perfect place and fucking hiding and picking people off.

[Audience Member]

And we all were just like, hey, you want to go to Mount Tam for the day? And you would just go walking and hiking out. Like, everybody would just be. Mount Tam would just go there for the day and just. Just walk around.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Vince]

Crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's crazy.

[Audience Member]

Yeah.

[Vince]

Scary.

[Audience Member]

Okay. So that same day, two more bodies were found. A half mile away.

[Vince]

Jesus.

[Audience Member]

Both had been shot in the head.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What the. He's in his berserker mode.

[Audience Member]

Yeah, he's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's going crazy.

[Audience Member]

Creepo bananas, I think they call it in court.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're a circuit court judge.

[Audience Member]

I am a circuit court judge. This was my case. This might be unethical, but for the first time, one of them was male. Richard Stowers was 18. His fiance, Cynthia Moreland, was 18. Also. They had been missing for quite some time, since October 11th. Ballistic now tied the murders together, and suddenly everyone realized there was a serial killer on the loose on Mount Tam. Police were told to avoid the area alone.

[Vince]

Wait, what?

[Audience Member]

Yeah, that's. I have a problem with that one.

[Vince]

Wait. Police were told.

[Audience Member]

Oh, sorry, people.

[Vince]

There we go.

[Audience Member]

But also. Also, I assume police also. You know what? I just want to say this. Police are people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But there's all these hiking cops that are like, I gotta go up there, man. No, please, I have to walk. Warn you.

[Audience Member]

But also, like, they just found two. Two people who were killed together and then another girl. It was with two other friends. So not even alone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, but his system is not going to help.

[Vince]

Also, he has a gun. Like who? It's like a knife. One of you can get, like, skedaddle. But, like, if there's a gun, you're both fucked.

[Audience Member]

Yeah. So the press named him the Trailside Killer. Police. Local police reached out to the FBI for help. Help. Okay. The FBI came up with a profile. It said he was shy, reclusive, and probably had a speech impediment and was unsure of himself in social situations. He had no victim type. It was about opportunity. He was like a spider waiting for a fly to come to his web. He was white, intelligent, blue collar, and had been in prison. He would have also had a. Oh, boy. That's a word that corrected itself on this thing. It would have had two or three boyhood indicators of starting a fire, bedwetting and animal cruelty.

[Vince]

Yes.

[Audience Member]

So he had two of the three. The profiler concluded he had a speech impediment because of the locations of the attacks. Quote, he has some kind of defect that really bothers him.

[Dave Anthony]

How do they know they're so good?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because they're so good.

[Audience Member]

When I read, I was just like, how do you do that?

[Vince]

Bananas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They just were, like, sitting at a.

[Vince]

Table across from him and they were like, tell us about yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's what they do. They just interview all the criminals that come through on that high level. There's like a whole department at the FBI, that's just all about it. And it's because he's killing in the woods.

[Audience Member]

Like, well, the guy's. The guy's got a lisp.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, isn't that awesome?

[Audience Member]

Isn't that amazing? Amazing. And then. And then the FBI guy did this in. The local cop have been like, he's a partier. He likes going out on boats. Like it was totally not even remotely close.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My brother in law, I'm positive, wears.

[Audience Member]

A backwards hat, listens a lot of Sammy Hagar.

[Vince]

He's got a truck, boat, truck.

[Audience Member]

On March 29, 1981, Ellen Marie Hansen and Steven Hertel, students at UC Davis, were hiking in Santa Cruz. Now this is about 80 miles south of Mount Tam. Carpenter walked up to them and threatened them with a gun, demanding Ellen let him rape her. She was not down with the plan. Steve begged to be let go. And then Carpenter shot Ellen point blank twice in the head. Steve ran away and he was shot in the neck. Neck. But he did not die.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Audience Member]

Steve gave police a great description of Carpenter. Unlike the woman in the woods, who was like, he looks like a hawk.

[Vince]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She had seen someone be stabbed 12 times.

[Audience Member]

Yeah, it up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then you can't get anybody's facial features correct.

[Vince]

And she was in a tree the whole.

[Audience Member]

Oh, did I not mention she had grown into the tree?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Audience Member]

She was part of the tree.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, she was some kind of an orc thing. Was she from Middle Earth?

[Audience Member]

She was an ent.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, is it ant.

[Audience Member]

I got deep into it. Others came forward and said they had seen Carpenter in the area and fleeing in a foreign car. Someone said the foreign car was a Fiat, which is hilarious because it's a very popular Marin. Do you remember that Fiats A composite was placed in newspapers and run on TVs. Right. So now they have his drawing out there. It's running everywhere. The woman then called police and said she had met that man on a Cruise to Japan 26 years earlier.

[Vince]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that was the woman in the forest. You doubted her? That she came back hard.

[Audience Member]

She's back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's making right?

[Audience Member]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On her wrong.

[Audience Member]

And she said that the man had been bothering her and her daughter with inappropriate behavior. And he had a stutter. And he was a ship's purser.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was my dad.

[Audience Member]

And he used to be a fireman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Vince]

Mr. Kerguerin.

[Audience Member]

And she had his signature in a book, which she still had.

[Vince]

Why did that happen?

[Audience Member]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They used to love to get serial killer signatures before they really kicked it Off. That was this thing in the 60s.

[Audience Member]

This is the point when you're writing a script and you go, let's just hustle along. What about a lady on a Chinese cruise that met the guy 26 years? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

People don't go anymore.

[Vince]

No, no, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It just happened. Do it.

[Audience Member]

Okay. But there were a lot of men named David Carpenter in Northern California. So Carpenter then grew a beard. On May 2, Heather Roxanne Skaggs told her boyfriend. She's 20, that. What's going on over there? Oh, I thought you guys were up to something. I saw it in the corner of my eye. I don't know. You were looking at each other and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, yeah, we're. We're going to jump on your back, but not right now. We're playing it for later.

[Vince]

Don't worry about it.

[Audience Member]

I'm gonna move my chair. So Heather Roxanne Skaggs, 20, tells her boyfriend she's going to see David Carpenter to buy a used car. She was a student at a place where Carpenter taught people how to use computer typesetting machines. What the fuck kind of crazy time is this? Before leaving, she gave her boyfriend the number and. And that address of David Carpenter. And when she expected to return. Who the fuck does that unless they're creeped out by the guy, right?

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

I mean, you're never like, here's all.

[Vince]

The information of this person.

[Audience Member]

She did not return. The boyfriend went and confronted Carpenter, which is fucking ballsy beyond words.

[Vince]

Good for him.

[Audience Member]

Did you kill my girlfriend? Carpenter said she had never come. And then the boyfriend called police. Carpenter's name raised a flag, as did Heather being Lord. And Carpenter looked exactly like the composite drawn drawing. Police then contacted his parole officer, who immediately realized Carpenter fit into everything police were saying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But just then, when they called on the phone and not at any point earlier.

[Audience Member]

Oh, my God. You talking about Murdery David?

[Vince]

Wait a second.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He kept his.

[Audience Member]

That guy creeps me out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shoot. You know what? I should have thought of this before.

[Vince]

I'm sorry I stopped watching the news because it depresses me. But now I realize he came in.

[Audience Member]

Wednesday covered in blood, and I was like, this seems.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then I had my book club and I don't know, it all just kind of slipped my mind.

[Audience Member]

Yeah, I don't care about anything anymore, so. So, unfortunately, this is where it's fucked up. Unfortunately, Carpenter is. I mean, this is where government records, you're like, really? Guys? So, unfortunately, Carpenter had not shown up in the record of released inmates when they initially looked, due to a technicality he'd been released by California prisons to serve a federal sentence. So he was technically in federal custody. So they didn't count him as a released prisoner. So they could have with the records found him because that first woman he killed, he left his prison issue glasses and they could have tracked him down right there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is just like a threes company I saw once. It just says this insane misunderstanding except for.

[Audience Member]

Oh, you ropers. So the multi agency task force started following him. Then one day they saw him carrying a bag and they approached him and they told him he was under arrest. And at first he was confused and then he said, please don't hurt me, dick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I bet they punched him right in the face.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Audience Member]

The pieces quickly fell into place. There were. There was tons of evidence. Everyone saw who saw him was brought in to identify him. Stephen Hurdle, who had been shot in the neck, ID'd him out of a lineup. Six out of seven witnesses did the same. Carpenter was formally charged in the murder and attempted murder in Santa Cruz. At his arraignment, he stuttered so badly he had a difficult time answering the judge's questions, which was simply to agree that his name was as stated. Heather Scogg's body was found a couple of weeks later. His total number of murder victims was nine. He was tried in San Diego because of. You could not do it in Marin. He was convicted and sentenced to die in the gas chamber. And he was. He's still on death row in San Quentin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is he still alive?

[Audience Member]

Still alive.

[Vince]

And he's our next guy. Everyone.

[Audience Member]

Davey, get out here. Get out here. You fucking scam.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You son of a bitch. What is your problem?

[Audience Member]

So that.

[Vince]

That's up.

[Audience Member]

That was between that one and. I mean, I'm sure you guys had the. Richard Ramirez. Were you here then? That was terrifying.

[Vince]

Baby. I've never heard that one before. That was amazing.

[Audience Member]

But no one knows about that one.

[Vince]

I've never heard of it.

[Audience Member]

Do you want to hear something really weird? When that. When the Hillside Stranglers were, you know, out in la, I was like. Like, how the fuck can they call them? We got our trailside t. Like I literally had a moment of. You can't do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's our thing.

[Vince]

It's your property.

[Audience Member]

But yeah, that was like. Like. So for like a year and a half we didn't go near the place that we all hung out on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

Cause we were terrified of being nearer.

[Vince]

We drank a lot less beer that summer. The summer? I don't know.

[Audience Member]

Well, I mean a year and a Half a year and a half is a.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Audience Member]

It's a long summ.

[Vince]

That's bananas. I've never heard of that before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we're back. Dealing with true crime in a. In a live show format.

[Dave Anthony]

In a live and inappropriate format. Here we are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's Dave's story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do we have any case updates for this one?

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, we do. So a minor update. David Carpenter is 94 years old and remains on death row in San Quentin State Prison. And isn't that he's one of the oldest inmates there?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I so crazy.

[Vince]

I mean. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

The fact that you can last that long in prison. Cause I do think people talk about how prison kind of just ages you quickly for obvious reasons. I mean, is he thriving in there?

[Vince]

That would be terrifying.

[Dave Anthony]

You know, it's just so wild.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just the whole. And this man, like, terrorized the entire all of Northern California for a long time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He truly was a zodiac type for everybody.

[Dave Anthony]

And like, listening to that story and like, he got away with so much for so long and how frustrating and like all those stories from the 70s.

[Vince]

And 80s always are where it's like.

[Dave Anthony]

You know, they got out of prison in nine months. They didn't serve their full sentence. They got out, they got away with it. It just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And also his whole kind of plan where he is up in this place, you know, like, especially, like, I always just imagined Mount Tam, but that idea that it's just like you are basically, it's 19, say 77, and you're just kind of out in the wilderness that all these people enjoy and go to every single day, like it's a real thing up there and you're just hiding out, waiting to be a monster.

[Vince]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That, like, yeah, it's just. It's worst case scenario in the serial killer kind of story world. He's horrifying.

[Dave Anthony]

All right, now let's get into your story. This one is a classic and it's epic. This is Karen's story. It's the Wineville Chicken Coop murders. There are probably a billion furniture options out there. We didn't count, but that number feels right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So how do you find the perfect piece?

[Vince]

Easy.

[Dave Anthony]

You go to article.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Article believes in delightful design for every home. And thanks to their online only model, they have some really delightful prices too.

[Dave Anthony]

Article makes furniture shopping a breeze with its carefully selected styles from mid century modern to boho and everything in check.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Out their near dresser. It's beautiful and practical, which is a deadly combination.

[Vince]

You know, we're hard stans of article.

[Dave Anthony]

On this podcast, everyone knows that we're like BFFs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean we couldn't rave more.

[Dave Anthony]

And it's because everything is so classy, so beautifully made, affordable and so user friendly. Like you don't have to have style to like get stylish stuff from article. They do it for you. So like there's no worry there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Look at that near a dresser on their website. Just go and take a look at that one piece and you will see.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What we are talking about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is as mid century as you could get.

[Vince]

Seriously.

[Dave Anthony]

Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of a hundred dollars or more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To claim visit article.com murder and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

[Dave Anthony]

That's a R T I c l e.com murder to get 50 off your first purchase of a hundred dollars or more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Dave Anthony]

Spring is just around the corner. Which means it's time for a spring cleaning.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I hate spring cleaning. Why can't it be spring? Avoiding.

[Dave Anthony]

Whether you plan on doing stuff or just laying around, your feet deserve to be comfortable with Bombas.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bomba socks and underwear are designed for next level comfort.

[Dave Anthony]

The secret is their high quality fabrics like Marino wool, which is soft, warm and breathable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And for all your other spring cleaning chores, Bombas has the cushioned arch hugging pairs that'll keep you comfy while you spruce up the house.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, this is really embarrassing, but I was hanging out with some girlfriends the other day at one of their houses and I almost said to my friend, wow, those socks are cute. Where are those from? And they were bombas. Like I didn't say it because I was like, calm down about socks. And she's also a nursing new mom, so obviously comfort is very important to her. Like that says everything you need to know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You really are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's weird when you talk about socks being comfortable and then you wear Bombas and you're like, there's the arch support I've needed this whole time.

[Dave Anthony]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Bombas is going international. Enjoy worldwide shipping to over 200 countries.

[Dave Anthony]

Head over to bombas.com mfm and use code mfm for 20% off your first purchase.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's B O M B A S.com mfm code mfm for 20% off YOUR first purchase.

[Dave Anthony]

Bombas.com mfm and Use code mfm.

[Vince]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Spring is in the air. Fresh flowers, crisp mornings. That first warm breeze through an open window.

[Dave Anthony]

It's the time of year when everything smells amazing. And thanks to Pretty Litter, your home can too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pretty Litter is the high performance cat Litter that controls odors, absorbs moisture, and changes color to help detect potential health issues in your cat.

[Dave Anthony]

And pretty litter is ultra absorbent, lightweight, low dust, and one 6 pound bag lasts up to a month. And the best part, Pretty litter ships free right to your door so you'll never run out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, a huge thing if kitty litter shipped to your door alone is an amazing convenience and perk. But then the fact that pretty litter helps you track your cat's health and make sure that your cat is doing okay as it, like, takes care of odor in your home. What more do you want?

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

As someone with an older kitty cat, I'm looking at you, Mimi. It is like such peace of mind to know that if something's going on with her kidneys, I'll know immediately instead of like months in the future when she shows me some other sign. Pretty litter helps keep your house smelling fresh and clean. Try it and you'll love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go to prettylitter.com mfm to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy.

[Dave Anthony]

That's prettylitter.com mfm to save 20 on your first order and get a free cat toy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Prettylitter.com MFM terms and conditions apply.

[Dave Anthony]

See site for details.

[Vince]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I chose to. I wanted to do someone. I want to do some really local. And so I googled Beverly center serial killer as It's. As a. That was my dream. I decided to shoot for the spot. That's what I wanted. You can't.

[Audience Member]

It's just a guy stocking the Armani store.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. He's just pulling a piano wire around. Guys that come out of the Armani store. Too much cologne. There isn't one. There isn't one. I'm sorry. I just thought maybe if there was like it was an old location of something from old Los Angeles, whatever, so. But then I remembered one that's semi local and really awesome are the Wineville Chicken Coop murders. Do you guys know those? It's what the Clint Eastwood movie the Changeling was based on. If you don't know if you saw that or not, let me reenact Angelina Jolie's star turn as playing Christine Collins in the Changeling My Son.

[Audience Member]

That was it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She did that. Oh, that's all right. That's all right. Don't clap. It was too. It was much too loud. But that's exactly how she did it in the movie. 50 times.

[Audience Member]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can we get the My son for you again? Can we just hear that four more times?

[Audience Member]

She was. She's she was in that movie. I remember watching him and going, she's distractingly beautiful. Where you're like, why would she be?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're like, nothing bad ever happened.

[Audience Member]

No, nothing bad ever happens to this person. She's the castle.

[Vince]

The woman who was the mother Wasn't that hot. Like, it wasn't like a hot mom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, she was not a hot mom.

[Audience Member]

No. And that's. That's all you wanted out of that. When you hear the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You didn't say it like it was.

[Audience Member]

Fun, but when you hear this story at the. At the fair.

[Vince]

Enough.

[Audience Member]

At the end of the story, you'll think, oh, I wish the mom had been hotter. But go ahead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

After you hear about this horrible child murder and death, you're going to be like, is the mom an 8 or above?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because if this. If we're in a butter face situation. You know what I mean? Turn this bug at them.

[Vince]

I just shame the shit out of her. The only way we could have sympathy for her is if she was Angelina Jolie hot. I just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There is a book by a man named Anthony Flacco called the Road out of Sanford Clark and the True Story of the Wineville Chicken Murders. It's got very good reviews on Amazon. I don't have time to read it, but if you want to. If you're looking for facts, I feel.

[Audience Member]

Like murderers are chickens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Chickens are murdered every day in this country. No, no, no, no. This isn't my vegan podcast festival. This is just to give you. This was such a horrible crime and such a stain on the community that Wineville permanently changed its name. It's now called Miraloma.

[Vince]

Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how huge this was. And bad it was. It was 1926.

[Audience Member]

Changed all the signs and everything, yo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Vince]

The two signs they had, they used the same letters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They just kind of rearranged them into Mari Loma.

[Vince]

What can we turn this into?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can we have a. We need a town with a.

[Audience Member]

We can flip the W upside down.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Amira.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, no.

[Vince]

Is it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep, yep. It's just upside down. Wine belt. I can see it right here. This is great. All right. Gordon Northcutt was 17 years old when he moved to Los Angeles from Canada with his. And when he was 19, he asked his dad to buy him a chicken ranch in Wineville.

[Vince]

As you do when you're 19, because.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'Re like, how do I. How am I. Punk rock chickens. That's how I'm gonna do it. I'll feed them and water them, take care of the land. So two years later, he went back up to Canada and convinced his sister, who still lived there, to let him take her son, his 13 year old nephew, Sanford Clark, back down to California to help him work on the chicken ranch and raise the chickens.

[Audience Member]

What? Yeah, like, hey, I need some labor. What's your kid doing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, it was the 20s and so it was kind of common for young boys to have jobs and work and help the family.

[Vince]

In any other situation when your uncle isn't a fucking creep ass murderer, it would be like, good for the kid, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

But like, but there, everyone's in the blue.

[Audience Member]

There's always that shit.

[Vince]

Everyone's in the blue.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So is that one time, as I wrote here, the problem was Gordon Northcote was the bad kind of uncle.

[Vince]

Oh, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, get used to it. This is fucking dark as shit. That was an uncle joke. Brace yourself. As a teen in Canada, he was accused of molesting a very young boy. But his mother claimed that he was innocent and would never be able to do anything like that. So the police did not charge him. Oh, God.

[Audience Member]

What?

[Vince]

Mommy was like, nope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, which, you know, I used to be very bitter that my mother didn't participate in my life enough. Like, she didn't come to my plays and stuff and she was never at like a softball game. And then I read this story of Gordon and his mother and I'm like, I think it's for the best.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The rest of the family knew that he was volatile and he once even beat up his own father.

[Vince]

Father Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And for that he got a chicken ranch.

[Audience Member]

You know what? I get that. That's something I get. That's okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I, I know. His father actually ended up spending the back half of his life in an insane asylum. So the family had a lot of mental illness and a lot of criminals. He had two. Gordon had two uncles that were also in San Quentin. So not the greatest group from Canada. Usually you people are so lovely and polite with your delicious chocolate, but this guy was a fucking lunatic. All right. So he brought Sanford back down to work on the chicken ranch and immediately began abusing and raping him. They would also together, he would make Sanford drive into Los Angeles with him. And so then they would drive around neighborhoods and he would ask boys if they needed extra money, if they wanted to take a job, if they needed extra money. And the boys would get in the car because Sanford, the young boy, was already in the car. Yeah, this was before stranger danger wasn't even on anyone's mind. They Were like, yay, strangers back then. Go meet yourself a stranger. Young America was the posters on every bus stop. All right? So he did that so much that he realized he would go into either Riverside county or LA and pick up boys, molest them, them, attack them, and then bring them back to their neighborhood.

[Audience Member]

And he just dropped them off.

[Dave Anthony]

Catch and release.

[Vince]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. But he slowly started. Yeah, I mean, but he slowly started to realize that that was incredibly dangerous. And that's when. Which is how it always goes with serial killers. That's when it escalates.

[Vince]

Get rid of the evidence, don't leave a witness. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he also did a thing where he put a help wanted ad in the paper asking young boy. Young boys to come and work on his chicken ranch.

[Vince]

And no one was like, that's a fucking issue.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Everyone's like, no, I think young boys love chickens. I think it would be. It's probably best.

[Audience Member]

Hey, dad, there's a man with a bunch of chickens. Can I go?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go on, son.

[Dave Anthony]

Yippee.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I wrote here, like a sort of murder Postmates. That's awful. Boo Boo, Karen.

[Audience Member]

Well, it's just. It's just Craigslist.

[Vince]

Karen's turning on the audience. Tell this, edit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's how I feel my most comfortable. So he did this for two years.

[Audience Member]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And boys were disappearing without a trace. So do we know how many boys we. Well, yes, eventually, but they don't know the exact number because he was so fucking crazy that when he finally went to court, he kept admitting to all the murders, then saying he didn't do it, then saying he did four, then saying he did 50. And the problem was he was so incredibly thorough. What he did was he would kill them, take their bodies out to the desert and burn them and then take the bones from where? Wherever. He burned them and then disposed of them on the ranch. So they had to. When the cops were finally raided the ranch and were looking, they were just fine. They were having to piece together tiny shards of bone from all different people. This thing is a fucking crazy nightmare. There's tons of buttons out in the lobby if you need any.

[Audience Member]

Yeah, I was gonna say I was about to release some balloons. I'm not gonna do that now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they found a decapitated teenage. Teenage teenager's body in a burlap sack on the side of the road in La Puente.

[Vince]

Why did he leave anyone there? Why did he leave a decapitated boy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

They think that happened because he, like, found him, attacked him, killed him in all one spot, and then Decapitated him. Thinking if they don't have the head, they won't ever find out who it is. Yeah.

[Vince]

Interesting.

[Audience Member]

Lazy though, considering how thorough he is.

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Escalating.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, this was his first, so, you know, he's just getting warmed up.

[Vince]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So don't you worry. So then in March, that's when he, Walter Collins was going to the movies. His mom had given him some money. She went to work. He was walking down to the movies and he pulled his old do you want to. Do you need some money? Thing. Yeah. Chickens get in the car. And he did. So he disappeared like without a trace. And because his mom was coming back from work, like really soon, she was. It wasn't like some long thing that he was by himself. And that story, his disappearance and the manhunt that happened after that just blew up. It was huge. And it was a nationwide story. Then in May, two brothers, Lewis and Nelson Winslow, age 10 and 12, disappeared on their walk home from their model yacht club meeting in Pomona.

[Audience Member]

I mean, it was a great meeting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

Different yachts that were discussed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When you think of yacht clubs, you think Pomona, you know?

[Audience Member]

For sure we do, yeah.

[Vince]

For sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The rich, the elite. So Walter Collins, the Walter Collins story is the one that gets focused on in the Changeling. And it is the most fascinating because these things that happen in it are so fucking crazy. Aside from the kidnapping and murder itself. So basically the LAPD at this same time was under investigation for mass corruption. So they were already had really bad press. They were really doing badly. And then Walter Collins disappearance, it was five months and they still hadn't found him or any trace. They had no clues whatsoever.

[Audience Member]

So this is when they were. They were. The. The mayor and the police chief were selling. You could buy to become a cop and. And once you were a cop, then you could buy your way up. So there were no like actual guys who were doing law enforcement. You just paid and then you become a def. Detective.

[Vince]

Yeah. Now they pay you $30,000 a year. And everyone's happy.

[Audience Member]

What just happened?

[Vince]

Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go ahead and take.

[Vince]

Bye.

[Audience Member]

But yeah, there were actually.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what's funny is that's how my. My mother's great grandfather. I don't know how many far away that is from me, but that's how he got into the Oakland Police Department. Yeah, he'd be a super crazy crooked cop. I come from a long line of crooked cops. Well, yeah, they were just. They were already doing bad, so. But this is. Now this is an example of the lapd like they already, you know, they've had a hard time with it. They've done, they've done. They've mishandled many, many things, as we all know. This one is unbelievable. So after five months, they don't have a body, they don't have clues, they have nothing. So. So they get a phone call that they have found A boy in DeKalb, Illinois, who is claiming to be Walter Collins.

[Audience Member]

Okay, we're in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they're like, this is amazing. So they do phone calls and they. So the police department orchestrates this huge press conference at the train station when he's gonna show up and it's gonna be like. And the happy reunion, and the cops are the ones that did it. So when the boy walks off, everyone's seen the movie, or if you have, the boy walks off the train. And Christine Collins is standing there and she's like, that's not my son.

[Audience Member]

Because it wasn't her son, but he was in Illinois.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the cop says, why don't you take him home and try him out for a couple of weeks? She's like that even mean. Yeah, it's so crazy. It's what it's basically saying is politics is more important than anything. Move out of the picture frame maybe.

[Vince]

Women are so crazy.

[Audience Member]

I know.

[Vince]

He's like, but.

[Audience Member]

But they must have been, like, looking. No, he's not your boyfri.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We.

[Audience Member]

We need this one. We need a win.

[Vince]

What's the diff, man? Just take one, please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The LA Weekly's here. We're going to get our picture in every paper.

[Audience Member]

Mean, like, where did that boy come from?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like I tell you.

[Narrator]

Well, here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, of course, three weeks later, when she's living in a house with a boy who's pretending to be her son, which can you imagine how creepy that is? He's. He's pretending and he won't drop it. And she's sitting in the other room like, okay, so goes back future killer in the house. Also, he's up to no good. So she goes back to Captain J.J. jones, who's the man in charge at the time.

[Vince]

J.J. yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she has Walter's dental records. She has signed affidavits from witnesses who have met the son and say, this is not Walter Collins. She's a big stack of evidence. It's not him. And so the police chief did what any good civil servant would do in a situation like that. He threw her in a mental institution.

[Audience Member]

Well, she was cuckoo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, for justice. So finally they get it out and this the Only reason that any of this got brought to light is cause she. When Walter first went missing, there was this. It's a priest or he was like a pastor. And I'm not gonna be able to say his name because it's crazy. It looks like someone had a stroke as they were typing on Murderpedia. It's like, that's not pulled and it's not Czech. There's a lot of V's and E's and Z's. So I was like, I'm not even gonna cut and paste that. That's how much I can't handle that name.

[Vince]

I support that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he basically was the one that got it on all the radio shows and stuff. Like on. He made it. Cause he had a. Every Sunday he had a radio show. And so he talked about finding Walter Collins all the time. So then when she was put into the mental institution, he was like advocating for her and trying to get her out. So eventually they get out of the boy that he had run away from home. Cause he had a really mean step. And he had been on the road for like three weeks by himself. A nine year old kid. And he was somewhere there. Was like. Basically he was in a restaurant in DeKalb. And like an old hobo that was in the restaurant with him was like, you look like that boy that's missing in California. And then the little boy hears California and goes, I'm gonna go to Cal. I'm gonna say I'm him and go to California and meet Tom Mix, my favorite cowboy from the movies. And so he tells the guy, I am Walter Cobb Collins. And so he calls the cops and they. Christine paid for his train ticket, is.

[Vince]

Smarter than all of us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, for sure.

[Audience Member]

The kid got what he wanted. Everyone else is right?

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Audience Member]

Did he. Did he meet while. Did he meet the cowboy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He got to be in four Tom Mix films. No.

[Vince]

Karen, we believed you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They really did believe him.

[Vince]

I believed it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You did.

[Vince]

Karen's always lying. As she says, now I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now I want to lie more thing. All right. So anyway, simultaneously, Sanford Clark's sister Jesse had been getting letters from him, but not that often. He told her he. He would write her all the time, but he wasn't writing her all the time. And the things that he was writing in the letters did not sound like him at all. It was very vague information. He wouldn't say if he was okay. So she was getting worried up in Canada. So she decided, I'm gonna go down and pay them a visit. And when she shows up she's like, this is bad news. Something is terribly wrong because it smelled.

[Audience Member]

Like dead boy everywhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, there was kind of imagine how.

[Audience Member]

Fucked up the place must have been if he's scattering boy bones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean. Well no, yeah, it's gonna be like a Texas Chainsaw Massacre esque situation inside the house. She was horrified by their house living conditions and by the fact that clearly this at this time probably 14 year old boy was like made to work like hard labor every day and looked terrible, like was shaken and whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So she.

[Karen Kilgariff]

One night when the bad uncle was asleep, she gets him to tell her what's going on. And the story that he tells her is so horrifying she cannot believe it. But they realize they can't do anything while she's still there because he'll probably just kill both of them. So she acted like nothing happened. She didn't know anything. Then she went back to Canada and they went to the American Consulate.

[Audience Member]

Did she take the boy with her?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. No. Well they. This was the two of their. It was Jesse and Sanford's plan that they couldn't act like anything happened because he would kill them.

[Vince]

Right.

[Audience Member]

But why?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't justify her choices.

[Vince]

Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wish I could. I believe in them.

[Vince]

Karen, goddammit, tell us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know so yeah, I wish I could. So they contact the American Consulate. The American consulate calls the lapd. Something else comes up. Immigration. So they end up sending two immigration officers out to the ranch. And as they are heading out, it's a big long driveway to get to the house. So Gordon sees the cars coming and tells Sanford, stall them. I'm running for the tree line. And if you don't stall them, I'll shoot you from the tree line. And then he takes off running and he ends up escaping, meeting up with his mother and escaping to Canada. Then the, the cops get Sanford and they're holding him and he starts telling them everything. The stories are horrifying. It's little boys held in chicken coops. Him making Sanford either kill the little boys with him or do it himself so that he would also be complicit and not tell. So basically he had this little boy convinced that if he said anything he was the one that was going to go to jail. It's super crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

We have an audience.

[Vince]

This is so fucked up. I just realized, well this is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean what are we going to do? This is what we do.

[Vince]

No, I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They know. They're just making noises sometimes, sometimes they.

[Audience Member]

Laugh at home and sometimes they just groan and they fall on the floor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck you guys. You just have to deal with all of it. So when the police raided the farm, they found axes covered in blood and farm equipment that was coated in blood and human hair. There were bone fragments in several shallow graves around the ranch, and almost all of them were linked to male children. It was later proven that the unidentified Mexican boy whose head had been chopped off was one of Northcott's first victims, and police later identified him as Alvin Gothia. Sanford testified that Gordon made him burn the head and crush skull and scatter the bones. Inside the house, they found a book that was believed to belong to the Winslow brothers and several letters the boys tried to write to their parents. Which is a horrifying idea that he's keeping them long enough that he's going in and going like, you can write a letter to your parents if you want to. While nothing of Walter Collins was discovered, Sanford Clark remained adamant that he had been one of the boys kept hostage on the farm. And of course, according to the. Oh, sorry. The police could only. Only had enough evidence to prove three murders, which were the Winslow brothers and Alvin Gothia. But they believe at one point, Gordon admitted to 20. They believe that there could be many, many more because he basically.

[Audience Member]

Well, how long did this go on for?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Two years.

[Audience Member]

I mean, there's tons more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And they just can't. It's. They're. They're scattered. It's like they basically built it for two. Hide bodies. This ranch, it's crazy. So. I know, right? So his mother, Sarah, was convicted of killing Walter Collins. So it turns out when they go up to extradite him from Canada, he's caught with his mother, and the mother says, I killed Walter Collins and I killed a bunch of them. Yes. It turns out it's a mom that.

[Audience Member]

Cares about her kid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a mom who is willing to partake, anticipate.

[Vince]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She.

[Audience Member]

We're saying the same thing, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

She. Yes, I think so.

[Vince]

This is why I can't be a mom. I'd be like, take this psycho.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what you do? You're murdering out in the chicken coop.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't want to be a partner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Vince]

I will not take the blame.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. She. She was one of the ones who said. Who encouraged him to kill his victims. She was there from the beginning. This is what, according to Saint. She was in from the beginning and was participating the whole time. When they were on trial, she came out and said that she and Gordon were lovers. She said that Gordon was the incestuous son of her Husband and her daughter. I mean, it was. Apparently the trial was in total insanity and total chaos. And every day there were different horrifying headlines. And she ended up. She was sentenced to life imprisonment, but she, she was paroled after 12 years. Let's get her back.

[Dave Anthony]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

Yeah, Fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was what I thought was proper at the time. That was a joke where I'm the judge now.

[Audience Member]

I feel like my story was like an explosion of glitter compared to yours.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. During his trial, Gordon demanded to represent himself. So his two lawyers quit and then he cross examined himself.

[Audience Member]

Oh my God. Probably like grilling himself. Why did you kill the boys? I kill the boys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was found guilty and he was hanged at San Quentin in Febru. February of 1929.

[Audience Member]

No, they got that done fast.

[Vince]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were like, goodbye. And as we've all seen, but Walter Collins mother did go to San Quentin on the day he was being hanged to beg him to please tell her if. If he killed her son or not. And he fucked with her until they put the bag on his head and walked him up the stairs. So she believed for the rest of her life there was a possibility that her son was alive.

[Vince]

Poor baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I decided to end on the downest note. I possibly.

[Audience Member]

He went out strong, right? Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Give him a little bit.

[Audience Member]

He got a little bit of credit. He went out, he's like, you know what? I'm gonna stay true to myself. I'm a fucking total asshole. Yeah, I'm taking it all the way to the chair.

[Vince]

Kanye over.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's yours, Georgia?

[Vince]

Okay, that was great.

[Audience Member]

Is great the right word?

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, we are back in. Oh, what a fucking. What a like, it sounds like a Stephen King book.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, it's every parent's nightmare. It is the wildest like, no, no, we're not going to look into this. We're going to put a woman into a mental institution. And instead of just trying to help her in any way, you insisting that.

[Dave Anthony]

That is not your son and other people agreeing with you, well, too bad you're wrong. And then they put her in a fucking mental institution.

[Vince]

What the fuck?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So crazy. So there's no updates for this story. It's been over for a long time. Although I do definitely recommend watching the Changeling because that movie, even though I was, you know, making a lot of jokes about Angelina Jolie's performance, you know, in certain parts, it really kind of like the idea that you could watch and as a true crime like listener kind of follow that thing of like, oh, these are children Getting picked off the street, the timing of it, the. Everything about it is so corruption of.

[Dave Anthony]

The lapd, Everything going on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like, almost like they're working in tandem, but they're not. It was just, like, the perfect thing for a serial killer to be working in that environment. So it's like, oh, yeah, I can just drive out to my unincorporated city where my farm is and put yet one more boy into a barn where these children are waiting. I mean, that's just, like, the scariest thing.

[Dave Anthony]

While you're watching the Changeling, keep an eye out for a cameo by comedian Ricky Lindhome as well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, what's she in?

[Dave Anthony]

She's in the. She's a nurse in the mental institution.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just remembered that. Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, well, now we're going on to story number three for this episode.

[Vince]

Story number three.

[Dave Anthony]

Horrible. Story number three. We didn't yet know the pattern of. Tell a good. Like a somewhat uplifting story at the end for everyone. Yes, we didn't. We. And we won't have that for many hundreds of episodes, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, especially for live.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This being the kickoff of our live journey, where, first of all, like, and first and foremost, it's like, it was like, yeah, we have to now go do live shows, which I, of course, was at least used to in terms of, like, what that might feel like, what we might have to be doing. But, like, we can all podcast. But, like, when you invite 300 people to watch you, it changes the chemistry of any conversation, obviously, then we invite a guest. Like, there couldn't be more variables coming at us that night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was wild.

[Dave Anthony]

I am glad, though, that this was our first live show instead of, like, the Chicago 2000 seat theater standing ovation thing, because, like, for me, who's, like, I'm not a standup comedian. I'm not used to performing in front of, you know, a fucking conference room full of people. Like, having you and Dave there. Like, I could count on you guys. I could let you guys take over, and I could rely on you guys. And it was. The crowd was kind of smallish, so it was like, friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

And it felt a lot, lot less. Like there was a lot less pressure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, for sure.

[Vince]

So I'm really.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm glad that this was my first.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Live show with me too. And I think it's like. I think it was the perfect one, because ultimately, we don't. We're not standups. We are there to do a live podcast. So we're supposed to, like, our conversation is the most Important thing, our combined. What we do together is what people want to see, not like individual people doing a little show. It's like. It's. It's like how we engage. I also think Dave Anthony was the perfect guest because he. He's gets all of that. He also knows me really well.

[Vince]

Exactly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he kind of was just like, here's. How are we gonna support any. He's been doing podcasts so long, he's just there, like, how are we gonna make this a good podcast, ultimately?

[Dave Anthony]

And he knows.

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And I. I do remember talking with Vince on the way over and just being like, I'm going to let these two professional comedians, like, do their thing. I'm not gonna, like, I. I hate it when you. I'm not going to try to get in there with them and, you know, have the last word and get in there. I'm like, I'm going to rely on them and I'm going to be myself.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you did great. I mean, Allison, when Allison and I were just kind of going over this, she's like, Georgia was so funny, and, like, you would have never known that it was her first like, or both of your first anything. And I was just like, yeah. Because I think that's the thing is that, like, I think you are a natural. I think I've always told you that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where it's like all of these.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You have. You have amazing and, I'm sorry to say, trauma instincts where you're like, how do I need to adapt? How do I need to change? I can do this. And you're hyper.

[Vince]

So good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So. So essentially, you're just like, how do I hang and how do I. And you know how to be funny, especially conversationally funny. So, like, you didn't have anything to worry about, but it was a great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Relief to be like, oh, this is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Something, of course I absolutely want to do do, but for some people is pure torture.

[Vince]

Totally, totally. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

I. I miss it. Well, we still have another 45 hours. 45 hours of this episode to go, so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So now it's time for Georgia's story about Mark Aaron Rust.

[Vince]

All right, I'm going. I'm going. I'm going back to Australia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Because.

[Audience Member]

Because you did research there about the last one, and. And by the way, that one was awesome. Just throwing that out there.

[Vince]

Thank you.

[Audience Member]

Yeah.

[Vince]

Australia. You got some up going on over there, man. So Mark Aaron Rust, murderer. He was born.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, you're gonna believe this.

[Audience Member]

Don't. He's into it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right.

[Audience Member]

Don't creep up on that story.

[Vince]

You know, the theme of this podcast is no. So he was born in 1965. He is a self described loner. He was 13 when he started following girls while fascinating about having sex with them. And he started exposing himself to women as a teen. And he really liked the reaction of the women that he would expose. Like, it's so creepy. Like, he would masturbate in front of them and be. And like love that they were shocked and horrified vibe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the. Yeah, that's the whole thing.

[Vince]

That's up, man. Yeah. All right. He's described it as obese, disheveled, odorous man who expressed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on.

[Vince]

His limited vocabulary in a. In a. In a monotone. He's like a creepy, creepy creep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was this written by a high school cheerleader? Mean Georgia Hardstark.

[Vince]

So he was charged seven times with indecency offenses, but was only fined, never convicted.

[Audience Member]

What. What year is this?

[Vince]

Well, he was. He was born in 65. It's probably like mid the late 70s, early 80s.

[Audience Member]

I mean, everything was cool in the 70s. I get it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Vince]

They just were like, go ahead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Vince]

So he was creepy, he was weird. He got. He. He married twice. Because they always do. They always do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I. He must be great at small talk. You know what I mean?

[Audience Member]

He's like. He's like. He's like a smelly. He's like a. You like to go bowling? I like to go. I mean, that's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love bowling works. It's about pheromones.

[Vince]

Okay. So. So after his. After his first. His second marriage ended, his. His wife, at the time's daughter, his stepdaughter, claimed he had sexually assaulted her. He was never charged, but had to attend sessions with sex offenders treatment program. But he left halfway through the first session because he thought the program was stupid.

[Audience Member]

Yeah, but that's probably. I mean, let's not judge it until we know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah. Until we take the program.

[Audience Member]

Right.

[Vince]

So he was working as a taxi driver in. So this is April 1999. And so Maya Jackic, she's 30 and she's walking in the neighborhood where he's driving a taxi. Don't look at my notes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's too late. I've read them all upside down. All right?

[Vince]

She's a fucking sweet angel. She's born in Croatia in 69, and she grew up in 1990. She fled the country due to the civil war with Serbia. So she's like getting a better start in Australia. She's a sales assistant in a clothing store. And she's in this neighborhood for some fucking reason. It's upper class neighborhood. He's. He sees her.

[Audience Member]

I like the details.

[Vince]

And he says to her. He says want to lift? In an Australian accent. Like I want to do it.

[Audience Member]

I can't do that.

[Vince]

Come on do it.

[Audience Member]

I want lift mate. No.

[Vince]

There we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was Peaky Blinders.

[Vince]

And she said she know she's. She's a. She's staying sexy and she's like yourself. And he says how about a root? Which I guess in Australian means like root means. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. And she says no and keeps walking. He drives after her and parks in a spot she had to walk by. He exposes herself to him and wanting to see her horrified face. And this amazing person scoffed at him.

[Audience Member]

Oh not. Not bad. Not what he wants to have happen.

[Vince]

No. Oh she was fine. No he does. He snaps grabs her pulls her into this like bushy area and tries to rape her. And it escalated to murder when he chokes her to death. Then he covers her body. She's like in the bushes. He covers but he wanted her to be found in a creepy up way and it's like abandoned building. So he calls from a payphone nearby to the to 911 in this country. 000 thank you and says. He says hey I was just walking by and there's a body. I see a body. And there two of these operations two of these things happened and the cops didn't find her body. And so finally he. Five days later he after him calling multiple times. He puts a note like under a cop's windshield that says like hi. There's a. He says there's a dead girl's body in the. He's like like puts an arrow behind basically pointing to where it is.

[Audience Member]

He literally he the last phone call he's like do I have to draw you a map? And he's like I'm drawing a map.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. I've now engraved an invitation for you to come and see the body.

[Vince]

Sad. Yes. And then they finally find. They find her but they realize that the like calls and the note has to do like clearly it's not.

[Audience Member]

They just hear from across the street. Finally.

[Vince]

Yeah. So the the the release to the public. Nobody identifies the the note or the the voice the calls her. But it's six days later the body's found. So he's in jail in late 1999 for trespassing. Released on parole in 2001. Ten days later after that he grabs a woman and rapes her and Sexually assaults her. And then. But she got out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she got away from him.

[Vince]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So Megumi Suzuki. Suzuki, she's an 18 year old, smart, wonderful Japanese exchange student attending college in Adelaide in 2001. She's gonna be a counselor for Internet. Like she's a good fucking person, you know? And on August 3rd, she leaves class and she's waiting at a bus stop and Rust fucking spots, spots her and he grabs her, tries to rape her and he couldn't get an erection. Which you know, pisses people like this off, right?

[Audience Member]

Pisses me. I feel like that's across the board.

[Vince]

Tell us, tell us everything. So he tries to strangle her, but he can't. And so he. He bashed her head with a fucking rock. I know. Baby Angel. And then he wraps her body and she. And so he puts her in a rubbish bin, in a trash bin for everyone here nearby. And she's reported missing. Her parents, who are like so sweet, fly from Japan to look for her. Her purse is found like shortly after, but her body's not fine. And her like poor boyfriend is like suspected of the whole thing and is like freaking out. They search for her and at that point on August 16, he cuts the power to an office building. And he goes in. There's one female alone in the office building. I know.

[Audience Member]

He went full Halloween.

[Vince]

Yeah, don't. Don't work late is the secret.

[Audience Member]

Wow.

[Vince]

This.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't like this at all.

[Vince]

No, she's not dead though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Vince]

She's. It's his last victim. She's raped. He, he, he like, he like fucking overcame her. And at one point he hands her the knife that he has to hold while he like does his unbuttoned because.

[Audience Member]

He was getting, he was, he was like, can you hold this while I take off my shirt?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Audience Member]

She was like, okay.

[Vince]

The only reason she's alive is because she was like, she went along with it. She didn't look at his face.

[Audience Member]

She didn't stab him with it.

[Vince]

No.

[Audience Member]

Okay.

[Vince]

I know, it's bananas. It's this whole thing of like, do you. Do you like fight for your life and do anything you can, or do you like, go along with it?

[Audience Member]

Well, she made the right choice, but.

[Vince]

But who knows what that would have been. It's so fucking insane saying to me, I can't. So he didn't harm her. He. And I do. And I have insomnia. So. So this is how he gets caught is so he.

[Audience Member]

So that crime happens and then he leaves her and Just leaves.

[Vince]

Goes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Doesn't kill her.

[Vince]

Doesn't kill her. She's alive. And then on the news that they're like. They keep playing his recording of his voice over and over again and showing the note to, like, to see the handwriting. His rusk's brother hears it and sees it.

[Audience Member]

From the handwriting?

[Vince]

Yeah, from the. He hears. He hears the voice and he's like, I listened to it, like, 10 times. I went in the other room and played it so I could, like. Like, he just was, like, freaking out about it.

[Audience Member]

It's Rusky, mate. That's what he said.

[Vince]

Rusty. Yeah, but he was like. But he knew his brother had, like, maybe molested.

[Audience Member]

But also, like, I have a cousin.

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Audience Member]

And if I heard this story, I'd be like, yeah, like. Like, there. There are people in your family who like, oh, Cam, I got my eye on you.

[Vince]

Yeah, but the secret. The secret is it's never who you think it is, which makes me suspect everyone who I don't think it is.

[Audience Member]

But this guy's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That.

[Audience Member]

He, like, that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That.

[Audience Member]

That guy who talks in the monotone voice and that weirdness, like, I literally have a cousin, like, And I'm like, okay, murderer. Yeah, you're. I wouldn't be surprised if they're, like, 40 bodies. Come on.

[Vince]

And his brother is, like, interviewed in one of these, like, ID shows, and he's, like, a normal, sweet dude, and he's like, I was out of town for a long time, and then I came back and the news was playing this, and I was like, oh, like, he knows it's his brother. And then he sees the writing sample.

[Dave Anthony]

He.

[Vince]

He, like, goes to the police and brings, like, a letter that his brother written him, and they, like, match it up. But this is only for the first murder.

[Audience Member]

But good for him, because most.

[Vince]

What?

[Audience Member]

No, but most people in a family would be like, it's not him, and convince themselves it's not him.

[Vince]

Would you turn your breath, like, Would you turn your family member in if you thought it was them?

[Audience Member]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A murderer. Yeah. I don't.

[Vince]

You would?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, I would.

[Audience Member]

I would like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Laura, like, I'll take this question. Yes, I absolutely would. All right, well, because here's the thing. When you. It's like, what you're saying. I think everybody at least knows a person or has a relative or whatever, where you're just like. It's just like, there's something going on. So it's not like you'd be, you know, calling in all the time or whatever. But if There was something where it's like, undeniable evidence A and undeniable evidence B and terrible result. You have to get those people off the street.

[Vince]

And even if you do it and you turn them in and it's not them and it's fine, it's like, at least you tried something.

[Audience Member]

Yeah. I mean, Christmas is weird, but other.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Than that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There'S a lot to talk about, you know?

[Audience Member]

I got you a really big gift.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Freedom.

[Vince]

Exoneration. All right, so he goes to. They figure out it's him, they fucking arrest him. And while he's in prison, he confesses to a cellmate about Michael Megumi's murder. Because he can't. He needs to tell someone about it. Also, he had her. This is the second woman. Because he's convicted on the first woman. Because of her. Of the calls, the second woman, they didn't even know it was. It was connected. And they. And he has her CD player in his cell.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In his cell.

[Audience Member]

But no, I mean, I'm gonna anise. What. What?

[Vince]

Supposedly they let CD players into fucking prisoner cells.

[Audience Member]

Well, but now. Now I'm like, it's a good idea because he. He brought her. Her possessions into his cell.

[Vince]

And her parents were like, here's the receipt with the fucking number on it. And they were able to match it up. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's some good. Somebody did some good work there.

[Vince]

Seriously.

[Audience Member]

Yeah.

[Vince]

So. So what? So he had put her in a rubbish bin. And then they tracked the rubbish bin down. They figured out when that bin had gone to the dump. The cops fucking went through, like, bail by bail till they found the area where she had been in the dump. So let's see, 11 days after they started searching, after 10, 10,000 tons. But it's T O N N E S. So I don't know if it's the same thing as tons.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How many. How many is that?

[Audience Member]

I mean, if I. I was just in Australia, but if I know correctly, that's about eight teaspoons.

[Vince]

After all of that, under. Under all that rubbish, they fucking find her. That's pretty amazing.

[Audience Member]

Not to disparage American cops, but I also think there's a. There's a financial aspect with. They just go, all right, so, yeah, go ahead and not look in the garbage.

[Vince]

Lost cause dump. Totally. They find her, all of this stuff. And when they asked her why he killed her, he says, because I did. Piece of shit.

[Dave Anthony]

Clearly.

[Vince]

Yeah. He's sentenced to two concurrent life sentences without parole. He pled guilty to the murders of both the women, Maya Jackic and Megumi Suzuki. Suzuki. He filed an application seeking the imposition of a non parole period for killing them. But everyone's like. Everyone in Australia is like you. That's never going to happen. So he's in prison forever. Him.

[Audience Member]

Fuck him. Did. So when you, when you, when you did your last Australia story, did someone go, you gotta know about this Australian guy? No, they didn't.

[Vince]

No, I just. I have insomnia and I search murders constantly.

[Audience Member]

Maybe that's why you have insomnia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I'm sure it's not.

[Vince]

Wait, what? I never thought about that.

[Audience Member]

Have you seen all the datelines?

[Vince]

All of them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you in love with Keith Morrison?

[Vince]

Oh, my God. Keith leans on things. She's know this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He really loves to lean.

[Vince]

There's an Instagram of called Keith leans on Things. And it's just Keith Morris leaning on things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so badass.

[Vince]

Screen grabs. And then he came to the. He came to the woman's house who made that Instagram and they lean on each other. She's my hero. My hero.

[Audience Member]

That's pretty great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know how we're doing on.

[Vince]

I think we're getting the.

[Audience Member]

Stop it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that light means get.

[Audience Member]

I feel super dirty.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, I know, I know, I know.

[Vince]

You apologize again to all of us.

[Audience Member]

In the last dollop we put up, there were approximately a million penguins turned into oil.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's this?

[Audience Member]

Yeah, it's a story I did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Audience Member]

And I took me two days to get over that. It might take longer to get over this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Vince]

We exonerate you. Don't you feel good right now? Like you're doing good?

[Audience Member]

You know what's funny is years ago I was talking and Karen about comedy and she was like, she was like, just. He just did a joke about child murder. And I just don't think it's funny. And I don't think people should talk about it.

[Vince]

No, not our Karen.

[Audience Member]

Like, people change. Obviously.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This one, this is a lie. There's no way I said that ever.

[Audience Member]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who wasn't? Ray James.

[Audience Member]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was not mad about the child murder.

[Vince]

This is not the Karen I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was that I was using that topic as an excuse to hate a person. It's what we do. It's what we do. I don't do it anymore.

[Audience Member]

Can I say thank you for coming to the podcast festival and supporting. And supporting this podcast.

[Vince]

You too.

[Audience Member]

Because we, we. We booked these guys really early on. When they started, they started popping up and I was like, I feel like something's happening here. Sure enough. A lot of people are crazy and.

[Vince]

Now we want to.

[Audience Member]

My wife. My wife is a total murderer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. We've talked about it.

[Audience Member]

Yeah. She's all about the murders, so. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It makes me so happy.

[Vince]

I know. Thank you so much for. Right you guys are. Thank you so much. This is our first live show. This is so exciting.

[Audience Member]

Really are having us of many. Of many.

[Vince]

I hope so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Thank you, Dave Anthony, for giving me first guest. The perfect first guest.

[Vince]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I guess now we tell you.

[Vince]

To stay sexy and don't get murdered. But I have Elvis on the. Wait, hold on, here we go. Here we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Here, wait.

[Vince]

Do it again. Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Audience Member]

This is what she tried. She tried to play it for Gareth backstage.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It didn't work. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we're back. Any case updates on the third story of the live of the first live show?

[Dave Anthony]

If you're still awake and with us, thank you. There's no updates on the case. Mark Aaron Rust remains incarcerated in Australia, serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole for the murders of Maya Jake and Megumi Suzuki. Well, so that's just. He's still alive too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. That's so weird. And also this because our naming structure that we just named the live shows Live from wherever to take a little.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Work off our plate.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's really no need to rename this. It's like if we renamed it anything, it'd be like our first live podcast. Look at us go.

[Dave Anthony]

Do you remember though, and this is how well I remember it, we went to Norms after on La Cienaga.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did we remember? Do you remember?

[Dave Anthony]

We all went to Norm's. You, me and Vince and probably Steven went to Norms.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice. And did you get a steak for 6.99, probably with an onion ring on it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Vince]

I love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice.

[Dave Anthony]

That's definitely a place to visit if you. If you come to la, go to Norm's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love that.

[Dave Anthony]

All right, well, thanks you guys for listening for three hours to that episode.

[Vince]

Yeah, and stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis.

[Dave Anthony]

Do you want a cookie?

[Melissa]

When you haven't found love, it can feel like everyone else has. It's in every movie, every song, and all the PDA looking for love sucks. Thankfully, California psychics can give you the guidance you need to find the one. We guarantee if your reading isn't life changing, it's free and new customers receive 20 minutes for just $20. Visit californiapsychics.com and experience the joy of certainty. California psychics.

[Narrator]

This message comes from Greenlight Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest with your guardrails in place. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on what your kids are spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk [e-mail] iheart what goals did you set for 20202025 if better sleep is one, Symbiotica's magnesium L threonate helps you wake up refreshed for gut health. Their glutathione supports digestion and reduces bloating. Symbiotica is one of the most transparent brands out there, never compromising on quality or sourcing. Their products are free from seed oils, preservatives, toxins and artificial additives, something you can taste and feel in every packet. Go to symbiotica.com and use code iheart for 20% off and free shipping. That's symbiotica.com, code iheartrad.