Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 38: Sidebar Nation

Summary

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark Episode Summary: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 38: Sidebar Nation Release Date: March 26, 2025

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Introduction

In this special edition of "Rewind with Karen and Georgia," the hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark revisit one of their cherished episodes, Episode 38 titled "Sidebar Nation." This episode delves into the harrowing true crime case of Sister Margaret Ann Paul, a nun brutally murdered in Toledo, Ohio, in 1980. Through nostalgic reflections and fresh insights, Karen and Georgia provide updates, share personal anecdotes, and explore the enduring impact of this cold case.

Recap of "Sidebar Nation" (Episode 38)

Originally aired on October 13, 2016, "Sidebar Nation" focused on the gruesome murder of Sister Margaret Ann Paul at the Toledo Mercy Hospital. The episode detailed the shocking circumstances:

• The Victim: Sister Margaret Ann Paul, a 72-year-old nun.
• The Crime Scene: Found in the sacristy of the hospital chapel, Sister Margaret was stabbed 31 times in a ritualistic manner.
• The Suspect: Father Gerald Robinson, the chaplain of the chapel, initially investigated but released due to inconclusive polygraph tests and a lack of evidence ([34:08] Amy Bruni).

Karen described the crime scene with chilling detail:

Karen Kilgariff: "She was stabbed 31 times, covering her in blood, anointing her with it in a twisted ritual."

Personal Anecdotes and Interactions

Throughout the rewind episode, Karen and Georgia interspersed the case discussion with heartwarming and humorous personal stories:

• Recognition Incidents: Georgia recounted being recognized while on vacation in San Francisco, leading to amusing interactions with fans. Karen shared a memorable moment attending a live comedy show where they received unexpected praise.

  Karen Kilgariff: "I love that someone recognized you from, like, it must have been a block away."

• Behind-the-Scenes Stories: The hosts reminisced about their podcasting journey, interactions with fans, and the evolution of their show over the years.

Case Update: Conviction of Diego Uribe

Fast forward to 2022, significant developments emerged in the Sister Margaret Ann Paul case:

• New Suspect: Diego Uribe, the 22-year-old nephew of Maria Alexis Cruz's ex-husband, was charged and convicted for the murders.

• Motive and Method: Initially believed to be a robbery gone wrong, further investigation revealed personal animosities and premeditation. Uribe, along with his girlfriend Japheth Ramos, brutally murdered six members of the Martinez family, including two children.

  Amy Bruni: "He had 16 blunt force injuries to his head and another 13 stab wounds to the head. That's rage. That's crazy rage."

• Trial and Sentencing: On November 2022, Diego Uribe was sentenced to life in prison, while Japheth Ramos received 25 years for her role in the armed robbery and murders.

  Karen Kilgariff: "He was convicted of six counts of murder... he provided no further explanation for why he targeted the poor members of his own family for robbery and murder."

Reflections and Insights

Karen and Georgia delved into the complexities of cold cases and the evolving understanding of true crime over the decades:

• Ritualistic Murder Elements: The gruesome nature of Sister Margaret's murder, including the inverted cross and the smudging of blood, highlighted the intersection of personal vendettas and ritualistic symbolism.

  Karen Kilgariff: "To stab an inverted cross into an old woman's heart is pretty fucking extreme."

• Satanic Panic Context: They discussed the broader cultural phenomenon of the 1980s Satanic Panic, drawing parallels to modern-day fears and myths surrounding clowns and other figures.

  Amy Bruni: "It's like the evil clown phenomenon we're all experiencing now, which I think is hilarious."

• Impact on Victims and Families: The hosts emphasized the importance of giving voice to victims and understanding the deep-seated issues that lead to such heinous crimes.

Nostalgia and Future Plans

Wrapping up the episode, Karen and Georgia shared updates on their personal lives and the continuous growth of their podcast:

• Podcast Milestones: Celebrating their enduring passion for true crime and their commitment to bringing untold stories to the forefront.

  Karen Kilgariff: "We've been here for 10 years. Whatever. It's the high compliment from a comedian."

• Upcoming Events: Excitement about attending the Chicago Podcast Festival, reflecting on their journey, and planning future episodes.

  Georgia Hardstark: "We do this every week on Wednesdays. Just looking at old shows and I don't know, I guess we're just podcasting forever."

Conclusion

"Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 38: Sidebar Nation" serves as both a tribute to a pivotal episode in their podcast history and a testament to the enduring nature of true crime storytelling. Through their engaging dialogue, personal stories, and detailed case updates, Karen and Georgia continue to captivate their audience, offering deep insights and heartfelt reflections on the complexities of human nature and the mysteries of unsolved cases.

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Notable Quotes:

• Amy Bruni [34:08]: "He was a fricking crazy man."
• Karen Kilgariff [35:00]: "Father Gerald Robinson... he was clearly praying, oh my God."
• Amy Bruni [55:25]: "So this is the Gage park stabbings."
• Karen Kilgariff [56:21]: "He hasn't stood a chance."

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Paola Pedrosa]

Welcome. My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium and the host of the Ghost Therapy podcast, where it's not just about connecting with deceased loved ones. It's about learning through them and their new perspective. I think God sent me this gift so I can show it to the world. And most of all, I help people every single day. Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kyle Tequila]

My name is Kyle Tequila, host of the shocking new true crime podcast, Crook County. I got recruited into the mob when I was 17 years old.

[Paola Pedrosa]

People are dying. Is he doing this every night?

[Kyle Tequila]

Kenny was a Chicago firefighter who lived a secret double life as a mafia hitman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I had a wife and I had two children.

[Kyle Tequila]

Nobody knew anything.

[Amy Bruni]

He was a fricking crazy man.

[Kyle Tequila]

He was my father and I had no idea about any of this. Until now. Crook county is available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Bruni]

Are you prepared to venture to the darkest, most haunted locations in the world?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was all solid black, like shadow.

[Amy Bruni]

As your host, Amy Bruni, I'm ready to take you on a spine tingling journey through the unknown.

[Kyle Tequila]

There was a man sitting in a corner she saw and then it was gone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen to new episodes of Haunted road.

[Amy Bruni]

On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia to Rew.

Shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's Wednesday, and that means we're recapping one of our old episodes with all new commentary, with case updates, perhaps some vision on our past and some lessons for the future.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, today we're rewinding to episode 38, which we named Sidebar Nation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So please listen now as we take you back to October 13, 2016. You remember you went as Harley Quinn for Halloween that year.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God, you looked great.

Aw, that's so. So cute.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And scary.

[Amy Bruni]

So scary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's listen to the intro of episode 38.

[Amy Bruni]

Hey, Steven, do you want to turn off the. That thing? I just realized it was loud. Thank you. Oh, my God. Shit's breaking down. We're keeping this in, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, dear.

[Amy Bruni]

She just turned it higher. You lost your fucking mind? All right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, everybody, here we go. Welcome to my favorite murder episode 38, hurricane episode.

[Amy Bruni]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi.

[Amy Bruni]

We have Stephen back. Steven was gone last week. Steven, welcome back.

[Kyle Tequila]

Thank you.

[Amy Bruni]

Thanks for watching my cats while I was out of town. They kept me busy, but I love them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, Save it for the cat podcast for cast.

[Amy Bruni]

Everyone, I have a story to tell about being out of town. Speaking of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, this is my favorite murder, by the way. Did you say that right?

[Amy Bruni]

I don't know. You're Karen. I'm Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. That's right. And we're back in our normal seats, which to me, makes all the difference.

[Amy Bruni]

You came in tonight and, like, sat in my seat, and then I was like, are we gonna. We're not doing this, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like, no.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. No, absolutely not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So wait, Georgia went to San Francisco for. Was it for unique suites?

[Amy Bruni]

No, it's just for, like, a real life, normal trip of a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On vacation?

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. How was it? You're gonna cry for me? Yes. I'm so jealous.

[Amy Bruni]

And you're Argentina right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I leave this goddamn town so bad.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, it was nice. Can I tell you honestly?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Amy Bruni]

I like staying home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You do?

[Amy Bruni]

A lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, as a staycation as opposed to going somewhere for vacation.

[Amy Bruni]

I'm not. Yeah, I like being home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I hear you.

[Amy Bruni]

You know, I like that excuse to, like, eat and drink whatever I want when I'm out of town. But, like, I also like hanging out at home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you guys drive or fly?

[Amy Bruni]

We flew. I feel like at this point in my life, I've got this. I've, like, gotten to this place where, like, I'm not gonna fly to San Francisco. I'm not gonna fly to Vegas. I'm in a valet park most. Most of the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, you mean drive, right? You were saying fly?

[Amy Bruni]

Fuck, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what I mean. You're gonna do the most convenient thing because you're an adult.

[Amy Bruni]

I think I'm gonna adult like, that, to me, was like, when I realized that I can now afford valet parking. And, like, not even. Not I could afford it for a long time, but I was like, fuck you. I'm not paying to, like, to, like, pay you, right? To eat at your place.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But that's not it. It's. You're paying for the convenience of pulling up and walking away from your car.

[Amy Bruni]

And not being in a dangerous neighborhood, walking down the street.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Amy Bruni]

And anyways, yeah, San Francisco. And then I'm walking down Haight Street.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That great street, that great street.

[Amy Bruni]

Hate with Vince. During the day, we're, like, doing touristy things, and I hear someone scream at me from a moving car, and I go to Vince, what was that? And he said. She said, my favorite murderer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Amy Bruni]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As she drove by, my favorite murder. Who was. I know.

[Amy Bruni]

I lost My mind. And I went. I, like, waved my hands in the, like, I went. I totally, like, lost my mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's awesome.

[Amy Bruni]

I know. I didn't play it cool when I wasn't being cool because it was like, the coolest thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cools for fools. Who cares?

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah, it was exciting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love. Oh, my God, I'm smiling so much. First of all, I used to live. Were you in the Upper Haight where, like, all the shops are?

[Amy Bruni]

We were in the Upper Hay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yeah, that's where. That's my old neighborhood from when I used to live there before the dot com boom, when you could live in the Upper Haight as a young, poor person.

[Amy Bruni]

Dangerous there or it was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It wasn't bad. Well, you know what, though? That back then, I craved danger.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah, I get it. I lived in Koreatown for a little.

[Karen Kilgariff]

While, you know, so that it's, like, even more touching. I just love that. But I think also that's. I love that someone recognized you from, like, it must have. It had to have been a block away.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah, well, they were driving by and it's like, okay. I mean, Vince is like a tall dude with, like, blonde, shaved head and, like, always wears a flannel. And I'm like a short, you know, like. And I had been posting on my Instagram that I was in town.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Amy Bruni]

So the person like, like, probably were, like, knew that I was there. There's this person, but it still was like. And I didn't get it at first. And then I was like, what? Yeah. What, Vince, what'd you say? She said for murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But they're like, get out of town. Nar. Oh, wait, yeah, that's.

[Amy Bruni]

I was about to yell fuck you, and then I realized it was a good thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You go kick their bumper, Georgia. Wait. I love that. I went to see Jimmy Pardo and Matt Belknap have, of course, the very famous podcast Never Not Funny. And our friend April Richardson was on it the other night. So I went with her because we're two old crones that go everywhere together because she was the guest. It was over at Flappers, and during the show, Jimmy referenced me and did it in his very Jimmy Parta way of going, oh, sure, start a podcast and then you're number one. We've been here for 10 years. Whatever. Which is the high compliment from a comedian.

[Amy Bruni]

Like putting you down by complimenting you by putting you down.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly. That's the only way they can do it. It's very hard for us as stand up comedians to really express ourselves, but it was a lovely shout out, really is what it was. And afterwards, when we went to leave, two different girls came up and were like, I'm a murderino. It's the funniest thing when people say it that way too. Like, I'm a murder. It's me. I'm a murderino. Just like, hi. That was really fun.

[Amy Bruni]

There's another girl who mess it who like, put in a message on my Instagram photo and was like, I saw you on the BART train in San Francisco and I recognized you. And I looked at her photo and I was like, oh, my God. I was. She's like, I was too scared to say anything. And I was like, I was staring at you because your hair was so cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why? What was her hair like?

[Amy Bruni]

Her hair was like a pixie cut. And I was looking at her being like, fuck, I wish I could pull that off. That girl pulls it off really well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What pixie? Like a boy. A boy cut like.

[Amy Bruni]

Like Tinkerbell.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, Tinkerbell has a bun.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, I'm thinking Tinkerbell from Hook.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, Julia Roberts.

[Amy Bruni]

Yes. I grew up in the 90s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Julia Roberts in a wig. Yes. I've always wanted that hair too.

[Amy Bruni]

Well, like Julia Robertson in a wig. She looked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was rocking boy hair.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You have to be so pretty to be able to pull off that hair.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. I was like, fuck, shit. And I've done. I've done that hair and been like, oh, my God, what did I do, dude?

[Karen Kilgariff]

In high school, I did the ghost haircut.

[Amy Bruni]

What's the ghost haircut?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a bowl cut. It's like a. It's a big round Demi Moore and ghost bowl cut.

[Amy Bruni]

Did you go in and be like, give me the ghost?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I. I think it may have been before ghost. No brag. And I know that I had also sun ined my hair, so I basically had orange hair in a bowl cut. I looked like I had. It was kind of like as if I was trying to look like a Japanese rock star is what I looked like. But not.

[Amy Bruni]

But then everything else, like a male Japanese rock star.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was like basically, what are you doing? Is what I looked like.

[Amy Bruni]

I mean, we have so many Throwback Thursday photos that just horrify.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We never see the light day.

[Amy Bruni]

Horrify.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Last week on the show I work on, it was my episode. And in the middle of it, the director of the episode, who is this super badass, Peter Atencio, who directed Keanu, the Key and Peele movie, who's directed and all of Key, Peele all of Key and Peele. He's done a ton of shit. I think he did the Last man on Earth. Yeah, he's done a bunch of stuff. He's. He's the shit right now. He walks up to me and goes, you know my friend Georgia? And I was like, what is happening? And he directed your nuggetini video.

[Amy Bruni]

He. He did that. We were just friends with him. And he was like, hey, I'll do this, like, for, like, for free as a friend. Did that in my grandma's kitchen. And then from that, we got a web series with Cooking channel. And he directed those too. And, like, no way. He's just like a buddy of our.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so awesome.

[Amy Bruni]

And now he's like, this huge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now he's the shit. And everybody on my episode, which was very involved and.

[Amy Bruni]

Should we plug the show early?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't think we can. I mean, like, I don't. Yeah, I think we should wait until. I always think I'm gonna get sued.

[Amy Bruni]

I got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I want to sue people and I want to get sued. But that was an awesome connection. And then I told you this already, but I want to tell other people while I was leaving. Is that kind of thing where. This is like a real TV show I've worked on. Obviously I've worked on TV for a while, but this is like an exciting show that I really love and believe in and think is great. And it feels like other people that are working on it feel that way too, which is normally when you work with crew people and stuff, they're all like, checking their watch, like, I need to get out of here. But everybody in this whole crew is so good. They're really good at what they do. It's amazing to watch. These are obviously kind of a lister people in all these different departments. And when we went to leave, everyone was kind of thanking each other, saying goodbye or whatever, and it was like, you know, midnight on Friday. It sucked. So I went to leave, and then as I saw the prop master, so I went to say thank you to him and. And as we were shaking hands, he was like, great to work with you. And then he goes, don't get murdered, and walked away.

[Amy Bruni]

You didn't tell me this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I thought I called you. Oh, yeah, I didn't. No shit. Maybe it was my sister.

[Amy Bruni]

And that's where we become.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm kind of losing my mind right now. I'm so fucking tired. I'm so tired. I feel like I have 50,000 emails and I'm not doing. I feel like I'm. I have 19 plates spinning. I'm dropping all of them.

[Amy Bruni]

Everything's still. Everything's working out. Know, like the other day we were, like, both freaking out about, like, social media and this, and it's like, it's not. It's not gonna implode if we don't retweet someone's. Everything's okay. You're getting. You're on your job and you're doing your. Your big job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Amy Bruni]

Everything else is still working out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're okay, right?

[Amy Bruni]

We're fine. Like, we're good. This is anxiety, like, at. At work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Well, it's just a lot. I mean, it's just. Look, no complaints. That's the worst thing in the world to complain about. But anyway. I know, but it's nice. There's some fun things happening. I guess the fun thing about that story is I'm sitting there going like, oh, everyone's so awesome, or whatever. And then when someone comes up, it's such an intimate thing.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. Oh, my God. You listen. Do you think it's good?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if I just immediately started asking him for compliments the second after he told me not to get murdered?

[Amy Bruni]

Normally, you'd sound like me. Oh, we sold out the Chicago Podcast festival show that we're doing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Chicago, Chicago, Chicago.

[Amy Bruni]

I don't know how I can think. I don't know. 950 people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it.

[Amy Bruni]

That's too many people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we gotta. Let's cut that in half for sure.

[Amy Bruni]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll call one of those. Call the guy tomorrow.

[Amy Bruni]

You can put that wall up. What's. You know, like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we'll hang the improv curtain. Like, only half the room sold out.

[Amy Bruni]

No, we just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We'll bring our own big, huge black curtain.

[Amy Bruni]

But there'll be. The rest of the people will be behind that curtain.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We just don't have to.

[Amy Bruni]

We can't see them. Yeah, I'm try. Your sister's coming. I'm trying to bring my mom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're. It's so exciting because my. These are the people that never paid attention to anything I did until I was about 27.

[Amy Bruni]

And now you're a big deal and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All of a sudden. But I think Adrian and Audrey were the first who started. And these are basically child, our childhood friends from way back. Petaluma. Petaluma. Hardcore.

[Amy Bruni]

What's up?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we have a. We have a text thread that's been going for, like, a year where we're just constantly sending each other terrible cat photos and Whatever.

[Amy Bruni]

Remind me to send you the rock and roll Elf photo. Gif.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rock and roll, Alf.

[Amy Bruni]

Okay, sorry. Go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, someone at work mentioned the other day. Do you know elf ended with him being taken away by the government? Is that the truth or was someone fucking with me?

[Amy Bruni]

We're getting a nod from Dustin. I mean, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, Steve. Is it true?

[Amy Bruni]

Same thing. It's very true. You're young enough to, like, have absorbed that. No, somebody talked about it recently.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Will you briefly run it down? How is that? How?

[Amy Bruni]

I don't know. I just heard that that's how it ended.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I.

[Kyle Tequila]

So unless somebody's lying to me and you.

[Amy Bruni]

Can I be honest? That motherfucker ate cats, so I don't give a shit what happened to him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay?

[Amy Bruni]

Fuck Al. Fuck Al.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe it was cats dressed up in government clothes. Oh, this is fan fiction that we have to write.

[Amy Bruni]

Where were we? Oh, your sister, your friends, they're gonna.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then in this text, they. I. One of them said, you're gonna go to the Chicago to do your podcast. And I was like, yeah. Oh, they were mad that they didn't. They weren't here for our first one.

[Amy Bruni]

I didn't even invite my mom, even though it's down the street from her house. So now I'm like, I'm gonna fly her to Chicago.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you're gonna do a little makeup work for Chicago.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But anyway, they got excited and then they're like, we could go. We can afford to go. We can fly out. And then they basically made the plans on the text thread, and I was just laying on my couch, like, all bitchy and t. Like, it was, of course, 10 o'clock at night. And I was like, I don't want to take my mascara off. And then my sister and my old friends just start making this plan in front of me to come and be there for when we do Chicago.

[Amy Bruni]

You're gonna cry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It made me cry at the time, and then I was like, you guys, I'm crying. And they just didn't even pay attention.

[Amy Bruni]

For such a hard ass, you cry so easily.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I will cry. Well, especially these days. Like the other day, I had a brief passing thought in the room, and then I pretend. I had to pretend to sneeze so that you would understand why my eyes were the way they were.

[Amy Bruni]

You're the most hard ass, and then you just fucking lose it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how it always is. If you. If someone's a real hard ass, they're the biggest softy.

[Amy Bruni]

Right. That makes sense.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have to put our dukes way up because we have. We're like the prickly pear with a gooey center.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, that sounds. I'm hungry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You just bite into a prickly pear.

[Amy Bruni]

Why is this gooey? Okay, I have a. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have a. Several. Thank you.

[Amy Bruni]

So at our live show in Los Angeles at the LA podfest, we afterwards, like, a bunch of people just, like, handed us shit and, like, didn't even want money for it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Walked away and did. There's no cards. We don't know names.

[Amy Bruni]

They didn't want anything for it, which is, like, bananas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, it's the way to do it, actually. So I respect it.

[Amy Bruni]

I agree. Like, it's legit. Just add a card because some of it, we don't know who it's from.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we do want to know your name.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. Okay. So this. Someone just handed me this, like, the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

These.

[Amy Bruni]

This gift bag with two cat toys in it that Elvis and Mimi have fucking lost their shit over.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Elvis was laying on one of them like a pillow.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah, they're these earlier little. It's. One's a goldfish and one's an elephant, and they're filled with catnip. And it's called Beco Family B E C O. And you can get them at. I think it's. Oh, dear. Beco Pets B e c o pet.com. and they're these, like, adorable. And it looks, like, natural and, like, not bad for you cat toys. And they've held up, which usually when catnip toys shoot on, they fall apart immediately. And they've, like, fought each other over them. So thankfully they gave us two. But thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So awesome.

[Amy Bruni]

They're so sweet. I'm gonna post a photo of. Of Elvis and Mimi fighting over them on. On their Instagram.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we got. We got mugs from the coroner's office. I like to think the coroner brought them, him or herself, but we don't really know.

[Amy Bruni]

I feel like I wish the person had given us a card. I feel like they probably bought those at the Museum of Death.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

You know what I mean? They seem like something that you could buy at the Museum of Death.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just like it because in the morning it's a nice tall mug, and then it's a skeleton with a Sherlock Holmes hat on. And I think he's smoking a pipe.

[Amy Bruni]

Mine has a. Mine was a chalk outline. A body chalk outline. Nice with that on it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're really good quality mugs. So thank you. Whoever was the. The gift giver in that scenario.

[Amy Bruni]

You could probably bash Someone over the head with it, and it wouldn't even break.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There might.

[Amy Bruni]

Wait, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

There might be a little knife in the bottom. I was trying to riff. Stephen also showed me his tote bag, which is actually really cute.

[Amy Bruni]

I haven't seen it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look at this thing. It's the original oh, my God.

[Amy Bruni]

Logo, and it's my favorite murder logo tote bag.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's like. It's good. It's like a book bag. It reminds me of, like, my fourth grade book bag. Steven, any comments, thoughts on it?

[Amy Bruni]

I mean, it holds the gear that records this podcast. Holy meta, dude. It's in good hands.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is holistic.

[Amy Bruni]

Listen, go to the farmer's market with a shirt with a tote bag that says, fuck politeness.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

And tell everyone to fuck off and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get some sail berries.

[Amy Bruni]

What are sail berries?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, they'll give you a discount because they love our body.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, it's like, on sale berries.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

I thought there was a berry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't know about sail berries. You know, they taste like.

[Amy Bruni]

Say it. Sail it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I can't. I can't.

[Amy Bruni]

Are you tired?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm so tight.

[Amy Bruni]

Thai Karen, drinking a diet ginger ale. What's happening?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the other thing, too. I haven't had anything I like to eat in six months. You look amazing. Thank you.

[Amy Bruni]

You look miserable, but amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm miserably amazing. Thank you. It's just so much.

[Amy Bruni]

Also, we're in the la. Oh, whatever. All right. Anyways, let's move on to murders. There's so much going on. Hey, let's take a quick. What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I was just gonna say somebody was telling my friend Nick, who listens. Hi, Nick Bernstein, who listens to us and is a big fan and as a big podcast person in general, kind of like, listens to all of them. He was talking about. I can't remember what he's talking about specifically, but then I just mentioned the Skippers and the people who actually message us to complain. And I said. I basically said, there are some people who are just like, come on, get to the murder. And he could not stop laughing at that sentence. He's like, that's your pull quote. That has to be your pull quote. Get to the murder. And I was like, oh, you know what? You're right. That's exactly.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, my God. Like, this is the. You've said it before. This is the podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the podcast. To quote Jimmy Pardo, listen or don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we're back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I still remember. It was the first time I ever got yelled At Stay Sexy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like out of a car.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, in the upper hay.

I'll remember it forever. Right in front of the McDonald's there it was so I remember jumping up and down.

[Amy Bruni]

It was so exciting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think the first time anyone recognized me, I was getting my nails done.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I remember that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it was super quiet and the girl walked up and she's like, I'm really sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just, I love this show.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And ran away and I was like stuck getting my nails done.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I was like, bye, bye.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So funny.

[Amy Bruni]

That was so fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the beginning of that time, which was like the fucking best.

It was hilarious to us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And just like hearing us have that conversation where we're still just like, this is what's happening.

[Amy Bruni]

Can you believe it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, can you believe 950 seats? That's actually a lot. I am actually like, holy shit. Like, we do more now or we've done more in the past, but that is sizable for like, what, our second show.

Yes.

Pretty fucking awesome.

Yeah, it was really good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, we had the numbers and that's all that matters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

So if you could please just.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now that we've listened to that top of show. Okay, can you just give us the behind the scenes background on the nugatini? And really just like a little bit of like where it came from, where it got you, what that kind of like Internet of virality felt like. Just give us an example.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Well, yeah. The McNuggetini changed my life completely. My friend Ali Ward and I created it in a bar because we were going out late every night and we wanted dinner, drink and dessert in one cup. We were like, I don't wanna stop for dinner. I wanna drink. I need a drink. I want dessert. And so we just. And we loved McNuggets. And so we created this ridiculous drink. It's a martini glass. You rim it in McDonald's barbecue sauce.

Yes.

You put vodka and chocolate shake together and pour it into the. Pour it into the cup. And then you garnish it with a McNugget. And so you drink it. You have to get through the barbecue sauce. You have to drink through the barbecue sauce.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Rim chew of vodka milkshake.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Chew vodka milkshake. And then when you're done, you swipe the McNugget around the rim. There's a McNuggetini video. Highly recommend. Which was made by Peter Atencio.

That's right.

It came your director later.

The director of the episode of TV I did.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Starring Tim Robinson.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's from last episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's from last episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So that changed my life completely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so funny because I've heard you talk about it for a long time. I've actually never watched the video. I didn't know it was chocolate shake, so I just was assuming it was a martini with a McNugget in it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, it's dinner, dessert, and a cocktail all in one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's grosser than I ever imagined.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. And then Ali and I were on messenger. I was at my boring desk job, and we both were like, hey, did you get a weird message on Facebook from someone claiming to work for Food Network? And, like, yeah, like, it's got to be fake, right? Nope. It was someone being like, do you want to make more cocktail videos? And my entire fucking life changed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're like, did you stand up from that desk and walk out, like, without a word, computer?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kind of. I kind of bailed on that job pretty hard pretty soon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I would hope you would.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My whole goal was like, okay, I'm going to try this and see if I can never have to work a desk job again. And that's literally all I've been trying to do for the past 14 years is just working hard enough to not have to go back to a desk job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Same that minds the gap. I mean, the music's great, but I can't go back.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, I feel you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, let's get into our stories. Here's Karen covering the 1980 murder of Sister Margaret and Paul.

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kyle Tequila]

My name is Kyle Tequila, host of the shocking new true crime podcast Crook County. I got recruited into the mob when I was 17 years old.

[Paola Pedrosa]

People are dying. Is he doing this every night?

[Kyle Tequila]

Kenny was a Chicago firefighter who lived a secret double life as a mafia hitman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I had a wife and I had two children.

[Kyle Tequila]

Nobody knew anything.

[Amy Bruni]

He was a fricking crazy man.

[Kyle Tequila]

He was my father, and I had no idea about any of this. Until now. Crook county is available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series, Cancellation Island Stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently canceled. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing.

[Amy Bruni]

Karen, where have you brought us?

[Kyle Tequila]

Listen to Cancellation island on the iHeartRadio Go app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Bruni]

And we're back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if my eye fell out? I just had this weird nerve pain in my left eye.

[Amy Bruni]

I'm actually really bummed because one of my, like, murders on my future list is the Eyeball Killer. Like, what if I did that tonight? And it just so happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If that happened, that would be like, what was that? Time Life book series where they're like, a mother in Ohio has pain in her hand at the same time that her daughters gets stabbed in the hand.

[Amy Bruni]

I loved those. What was the one?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those were called Mysteries of the Unknown or something like that.

[Amy Bruni]

That was definitely. That was one of them. It wasn't. It was like. There was. That. There was Unsolved Mysteries. There was like, the, like, new generation of Twilight Zone that was super scary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the movie also in the 80s.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. They just basically want to scar us and scare the shit out of us, and then they end up making the coolest people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Amy Bruni]

Any generation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because we're like, we can fucking take it. But also, I wish. Was it called Mysteries of the Unknown or. It was called Time Life Book Series.

[Amy Bruni]

Time Life Books presents. Come on, we got this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The paranormal or something.

[Amy Bruni]

I bet you're right about. And there was also, like, tombs that they would open in Egypt and they contained things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love Egypt tombs.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dude.

[Amy Bruni]

Did you know that there's a. There's a. Okay. Global warming is causing these glaciers to melt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Amy Bruni]

In the Alps.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Amy Bruni]

And do you know what they're finding underneath them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Amy Bruni]

They're finding the bodies Of World War I soldiers that died in a crazy battle up at the top.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is. I love that.

[Amy Bruni]

I know archeology is, like, the best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also, what if that happens and they. It's. They start finding stuff that, like, they didn't know was there. That's why I thought you were gonna go. There's pyramids in the Alps or something.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, I thought you meant, like, this. World War I soldiers had iPhones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They. They all had.

[Amy Bruni]

Found it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, not Mysteries of the Criminal Mind. No. Stephen.

[Amy Bruni]

Damn. It seemed on brand. I was gonna give your podcast shout out, but now you don't deserve the per cast doesn't deserve it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what you can do to make up for this? Buy me this book.

[Amy Bruni]

What is it called?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's time. Well, because time, like the criminal mind. I think mine is Mysteries of the Unknown. I think I might be right.

[Amy Bruni]

It had like a. I think you're right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The picture was like a pyramid with lightning or something on the front.

[Amy Bruni]

And then I remember all those ones of like, you can see, like, in the dollar bill, you can see someone's head. And it's like. I think it is Mysteries of the Unknown.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Mystic places. Ew. Mystery of the Unlike. There's a whole series.

[Amy Bruni]

Yes, that's it. There it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There it is. Well done. Look. And with that, Steven immediately wins us back over to his favor.

[Amy Bruni]

Listen to the purrrcast. That's three Rs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Purrcast.

[Amy Bruni]

Purrcast. Steven Ray Morris. I'm having the best time right now. So are you, Steven.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Should we start in? Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

I think you're first this week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it murder time? And I'm also first because I could.

[Amy Bruni]

Just keep going like this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

By the way, I know where we just never talk about murder. We just kind of go hysterical, peripherally.

[Amy Bruni]

Talk about murder, but not really.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But not really ever get to anything specific. This week, Time Life series presents a murder that I'm positive I must have found on either through somebody who tweeted it at us or somebody on the Facebook page. But it's really good because as being an ex Catholic or I guess a lapsed Catholic, I'm not. I haven't turned my back on the church. The last couple experiences I've had at the church in my hometown were great.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, because you went with your niece?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. My niece goes to Catholic school, goes to the same school I went to. And the church, the way they do things is really different than the way it was done in the 80s, obviously, which is 100 years ago.

[Amy Bruni]

You have to be mean to in enough to make you pay attention, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like love God or something. These days, it's totally like we're all just here to support each other. Where I'm like, what are these words?

[Amy Bruni]

They change the words.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a lot of hand holding and oh, my God, stuff that was never even. It wasn't done when I was growing.

[Amy Bruni]

Girl, Today's a Jewish holiday. And I didn't do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What is it? Purim?

[Amy Bruni]

It's Yom Kippur. And I absolutely did nothing. Don't ask me the meaning of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. It's about atonement, I think, Right?

[Amy Bruni]

Yes. I am the. I am a terrible. I'm the Jewishest non Jew that's ever lived.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's really true. You play good Jew.

[Amy Bruni]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But you don't do any of the, like, homework part.

[Amy Bruni]

Nope.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think it's enjoyable. And I also think it's what in Los Angeles, I would say it's like what 98% of people are doing.

[Amy Bruni]

Let's make this about me. I'm sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Keep going.

[Amy Bruni]

Just get to the murder. Yeah, okay. I'm sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I'm not yelling.

[Amy Bruni]

I know, I know, you're right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're so. But I say all this because my murder this week is about a priest named Gerald Robinson. Now, normally I love a serial killer. I love a process killer. I love somebody who maybe one of his eyes got poked out and he's upset and. Oh, there was a really good TED Talk Somebody posted on the Facebook page. Sorry, sidebar. There's a really good TED Talk where a guy talks about how people become like the mind of a serial killer. And he talks about violence. Experiencing violence at a young age and head trauma.

[Amy Bruni]

Fuck yeah, he does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that. I loved that.

[Amy Bruni]

So anyway, this episode's called Sidebar Nation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is become a citizen of Sidebar Nation. Don't fight us anymore. We know you like murder. Everybody does.

[Amy Bruni]

Join the religion of Sidebar Nation because.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It'S fun to have add.

[Amy Bruni]

Well, hold hands and we'll talk about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And there will be crying. So normally one off murders do not interest me. Sure they are. There has to be insane extenuating circumstances for me to be like, oh. Because I have that feeling like, well, that's just the thing that happens. Somebody loses their shit and all of a sudden attacks another person or somebody pushes someone over and they hit. We're very fragile, delicate people.

[Amy Bruni]

Like that happens. But this is like. But you like the shit that's like planned, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like the. The stuff that's from a movie that's. But actually happened in real life.

[Amy Bruni]

See, I think I'm the opposite where I'm fascinated by the. Like, you. You did these things without even realizing you were gonna murder someone or like you were going to. This was going to happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This thing was building up inside you. That's what you like.

[Amy Bruni]

No, it wasn't even building up. It just this fucking snap decision you made ended up in. In these circumstances and you had. And you murdered someone without even fucking under. Like, if you could go back and be like, I was murdering this person. And I did. I just wanted. I just wanted to show them how angry I was or I just wanted to. I just reacted in a way that I'm not because I'm not good at controlling my anger. Yeah, I wouldn't have done them, but I did them. Like, that's why I like one offs you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like. Okay, that makes sense. Well, then you, Georgia, this one is dedicated to you.

[Amy Bruni]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This one's going out to Georgia tonight. Hey, Georgia, Karen just wants you to know I'm the lady from Coast. Local jokes get local work. All right, this is priest Gerald Robinson. So this is fucked. It's a one off, but it's crazy fucked. It has all these elements to it where I'm like, I couldn't find. Let's be honest, Karen didn't find. I'm sure that it's possible to find all the super detailed parts.

[Amy Bruni]

The correction corner. Next week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Many of you will. Yes, this will go on and on, But I'll just give you what I know. So on April 5, 1980, what a time.

[Amy Bruni]

Music, TV, we had all of them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was so much great stuff happening in our culture. But in Toledo, Ohio, at the Toledo Mercy Hospital, in the sacristy of the chapel, which is up where they keep the body of Christ. Amen, I believe. I think that's where, like up near the altar. I think that's the sacristy. Or maybe the sacristy is backstage.

[Amy Bruni]

Happy Yom Kippur, everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They find a fellow nun finds the body of Sister Margaret Ann Paul. And she had been stabbed 31 times.

[Amy Bruni]

Holy shit. That's a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She. Well, she had. She had initially been attacked from behind. She was hard of hearing, so her killer snuck up on her, took a piece of cloth, wrapped it around her neck and choked her so hard that he broke two bones in her neck.

[Amy Bruni]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then she was placed on the floor. While she was dying, she was covered with an altar cloth. And then she was stabbed nine times over the heart in an inverted cross shape. No, that's right. And then the cloth was removed and she was stabbed in the chest, neck, and face 22 more times.

[Amy Bruni]

What the fuck? Why take the cloth off? That doesn't make any sense.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, then the killer smudged blood on her forehead as if he was anointing her holy with that blood, which is so creepy to meet the Catholic. Then he pulled her dress above her chest.

[Amy Bruni]

Not cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then he pulled her girdle and hose down.

[Amy Bruni]

Not cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And pulled her legs apart. And they say he penetrated her with either the murder weapon across ori finger.

[Amy Bruni]

Hate the murder weapon. I hate that detail in murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. Yeah, that's a. That's hideous.

[Amy Bruni]

Yep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's also, especially in this case, the police were like, well, this was a person. This was a person who intimately knew Catholic ritual and who was trying to degrade this woman in front of God and degrade the church. If she had lived one more day, which was. If she had lived one more day, she would have been 72 years old. And I believe the next day was. What I was thinking there just then is the next day was Easter.

[Amy Bruni]

So she was born on honey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So four days later, they have her funeral. And Father Gerald Robinson presides over the funeral. He was the chaplain of the hospital chapel, and she was the caretaker of the hospital chapel.

[Amy Bruni]

I remember his name from when you introduced the story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you remember? Maybe I shouldn't have done that. And then this would be more of a reveal thing. Look, too late. If I had days and days to do this shit and I was unemployed and stuff. Oh, oh, the presentation I would give you.

[Amy Bruni]

Wait, then you're making me feel bad because I have days and days and I'm unemployed, yet I don't care.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, then we're both doing great. Two weeks later, Father Robinson is brought in for questioning because they put it together that if it's somebody who knows Catholic ritual and it's somebody who's trying to demean her, they work together and she is known as a taskmaster. There's in these. It's so funny. Cause these articles are clearly from a while ago where they're just right. Right up top, they're talking about what a she is.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah, they're like, nun is a what a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's like, first of all, he murdered her. So I think he's the bigger cunt. Ultimate.

[Amy Bruni]

Sorry, Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The headline is sorry, the I'm as tiny. Is it like font 8? And everything else is a font 32.

[Amy Bruni]

Can we get that? [e-mail]? i mean, at Instagram.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, so. But they talk about that she was. She was a tough old bird. And maybe that made him mad. And maybe he couldn't handle that or didn't like it or took it for years and years and years. But he tried so hard to take.

[Amy Bruni]

It, you know, and then he was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A man of the Lord, so I guess he just had to kill instead. So he's brought in for questioning, but he told the police in 1980, when he's brought in for questioning that somebody else had confessed to the murder. But he couldn't. He didn't know who it was, and he couldn't say anything else because of the bond.

[Amy Bruni]

That's smart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They gave Him. Two polygraph tests which were inconclusive, and then they let him go. And within the year, he's transferred to a different fuck area. How convenient. Well, 23 years later. Fuck. So this is the coldest of cold cases.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. What year is that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a ritual murder of a nun in a chapel.

[Amy Bruni]

It wasn't just like a passionate murder. Like the fact that he did the upside down cross and then. And then annoying. Did the smudge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Amy Bruni]

Like, that's evil.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's super evil. And what's weird to me is this. And this is the part where I do want to get into this more and learn more about it. I bet you there's a book about this because this was during the time during Satanic panic. Oh, right. In the 80s, when, like, the McMartin daycare thing, where all of a sudden this weird thing. And maybe this was before it, and so it didn't catch that in the way that it would have other places. But in the 80s, there's a fascinating. There's definitely books about it. Last podcast on the left did an episode about it of Satanic Panic, where all of a sudden people were being accused of ritual serial murder of, like, occult groups and satanic groups and killing children and sacrificing children and raping children.

[Amy Bruni]

And this whole thing that they. They, like, legitimately believed in Satan. That there were, you know, album, like, music albums that you could play backwards that were telling people to kill children. And it was just like this. It was a whole thing. It was insane thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was like a cultural phenomenon, much like the evil clown phenomenon we're all.

[Amy Bruni]

Experiencing now, which I think is hilarious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the greatest.

[Amy Bruni]

It's like, it makes me happy in my heart. And I don't think that they're actually trying to hurt anyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, I think there's. I would say there's 97% of it is bored high school teenage boys who find old Halloween costumes and they're like, now we have something to do tonight. But there was that one story where there was someone. That there was a clown on the edge of a forest trying to offer children candy.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. But at what. What point is that built up by, like, terrified, you know, parents who are like, he tried to lure my kid. And the kid was like, yeah, he totally like, I just don't believe it, that that's even true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would love to know.

[Amy Bruni]

I think it's hilarious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's. I. I say at the center of all this, there's one evil clown, and everybody else is just bandwagoning on his.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. And they're like, don't our up, man. This is like, good for us. But one of them's gonna get shot by some fucking angry soccer dad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, then it's going to ruin it. Be over.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then it's going to ruin it for.

[Amy Bruni]

All the rest, for all of us who want to laugh at this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were actually doing that in Kern county, like, two years ago, and people were taking video of it. And it was. It's because Kern county is up north of Los Angeles, and it's basically the forest.

[Amy Bruni]

It's the bottom of the wilderness times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's the creep there. People would drive by and there just be a guy with a clown, dressed as a clown, but like an evil clown holding balloons.

I love it.

Just standing around by the road out in the forest area.

[Amy Bruni]

I feel like if I saw that, I would crack up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would scream. I would laugh, but I would laugh out of. Out of fear, but in the way of, like, I wouldn't be able to control myself.

[Amy Bruni]

You'd scream, sneeze.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

And you would. Which, by the way, people are pissed at us for talking about scream. Sneezers. Scream.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sneezers are pissed. Oh, really? Well, I've been pissed at you guys.

[Amy Bruni]

For a really long time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also we talked about it in a way where you could see it coming. And we spoke in normal tones. We didn't all of a sudden scream at the top of our lungs out of the blue for seemingly no reason. So who cares what they think? Anyway, back to this murderous priest.

[Amy Bruni]

Go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. 23 years later, a woman tells the Toledo Catholic diocese that she suffered years of ritual sex abuse by a diosan. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. And religious order of priests during her childhood.

[Amy Bruni]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she named Gerald Robinson in particular.

[Amy Bruni]

Motherfucker.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now these. Those accusations were never substantiated because though.

[Amy Bruni]

Like, why would she lie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, A, why would she lie? B, it. It's. It go. Takes me straight to the Lincoln Credit Union. Yeah. Thing of that. That pedophile rings happen. They are crazy and upsetting and nobody wants to admit it, but it has happened. They do happen.

[Amy Bruni]

Definitely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whether that is happening because people want to dedicate their life to Satan, I don't know. Or think so.

[Amy Bruni]

And if they. And if that's what they say, it's an excuse for bad behavior.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. They're not religious people.

[Amy Bruni]

No. And you know, with her, with it being unsustain, absent unsubstantiated, yes. The intimidation that you must receive when you have any allegation of this going on is so intense that why would you then move forward with trying to substantiate it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Does that make sense? Yes, exactly. Why would you put yourself in the hot water?

[Amy Bruni]

You'd be like, you know what? Fuck this, I'm moving on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Now I will just say this for even keelness sake. There is a possibility that the reason that she would make an accusation like that and it would be unfounded and untrue is because she had mental health issues.

[Amy Bruni]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is a possibility. In no way am I accusing her of that. I don't even know who this person is. There's no name. And that's of course the first thing that gets thrown back at a person like that that then negates a victim's story. Right. So I am in no way doing that.

[Amy Bruni]

The other thing is maybe she does have mental health issues and also isn't lying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

You know what I mean? Maybe her mental health issues are because she went through this thing for her. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, yes.

[Amy Bruni]

Insane people are still saying some things that are like the truth.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. They're experience. Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

You know what I mean? It's just so frustrating.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And the, and the idea that things don't get substantiated doesn't mean it's right that they didn't happen. It's that the police cannot find proof 20 years later or don't want to.

[Amy Bruni]

Find proof because maybe they're all involved.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Conspiracies to the roof.

[Amy Bruni]

My favorite murder is cracking the case right now. Get with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

By posture postulating.

[Amy Bruni]

Postulating.

[Karen Kilgariff]

By repeatedly postulating.

[Amy Bruni]

Vaguely hardcore, vague postulating. That's. That's our tagline now. That's the new shirt.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's our hook. Hardcore vig postulating. Okay. But then the authorities, in December of the same year, so it was like six months later, they receive a letter about the woman's allegations and they reopen the investigation into Sister Margaret Ann's death. So basically somebody, somebody at the Catholic diocese heard this woman's story and believed her enough or felt enough about it to send a letter to the cops to say I think this needs to be looked into in some way. And they did. And that's why that Sister Margaret Ann's death got the case got reopened. And the name that they find is Father Gerald Robinson. That's the. There's a man named in this crazy quote unquote crazy story of ritual priest molestation. And then when they go to open this 20 year old murder case. He's the one guy that works there and he's there. So then they start looking into it and they start. They look at. I think. I'm not sure exactly how they hook this up, but I love this. There was a very light indentation on that altar cloth that got put on her that had a little picture of the US Capitol. And it was the medallion on a letter opener that they found on his desk.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then they took that letter opener and they put it and compared it to. But her wounds.

[Amy Bruni]

It didn't match, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It matched. Not only did it match, it matched like a key in a lock.

[Amy Bruni]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then they go and talk to him and it said that when they brought him in for questioning again, this is, you know, in. Now, in 2000, 2004, I think he's. He's brought in for questioning. They talk to him a little bit. He denies everything. And when they, when he leaves, the camera catches him. He's whispering to himself and saying things like, panic word. You know, like he's clearly praying, oh, my God. He's saying like, holy Jesus. And it's little things that you. They can't pick up the whole thing. But it's.

[Amy Bruni]

I want to watch it. I want to watch it. That's crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. So basically it's a. It's a bit of a Robert Durst. Yeah. Where he doesn't realize he's still being filmed and he's alone. Freaking the out. No, freak out.

[Amy Bruni]

Freak the out to yourself, everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, exactly. Just stare straight ahead.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Try to keep your eyes open as wide as possible.

[Amy Bruni]

Do not blink.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't blink, no matter what. But I feel like that's the thing of. If you were. Look, if you were looked at for a murder and you were not guilty of that murder, and then they brought you back in 20 years later.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's no need to pray in a panicked manner.

[Amy Bruni]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

After the cops leave.

[Amy Bruni]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, you might be upset or whatever, but you don't. What are you freaking out about? Yeah, I demand to know. You have to tell me. So. So essentially they figure out that Father Robinson was angry about Sister Paul's domineering ways, that they had worked together for a long time, and that he basically snapped. Also the fact they were having Easter services at that chapel, so maybe something specific happened or the pressure was building or they had to work together more than often, more than usual. I mean, to me though, the level of overkill.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, my God. Building up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Crazy.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it also indicates. It's like, if you're a priest, I mean, I understand that you would be very familiar with things like inverted crosses.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To stab. To stab an inverted cross into an old woman's heart is pretty fucking extreme.

[Amy Bruni]

But was it. What if he was stabbing her from her head down? Like, maybe it wasn't inverted in his mind. You know what I'm saying?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. It's the shape of an inverted cross.

[Amy Bruni]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They think one of the theories is that he was trying to make it look like some outside total creep.

[Amy Bruni]

Which means he thought about it beforehand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

Like, that's what's crazy, is like, those little aspects of, like, that he means he thought about it beforehand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

And also, that doesn't sound like someone whose first and only. It was his first and only kill.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, it really doesn't. No, it doesn't. I mean, for things that I've read, it absolutely doesn't. Because if you kill someone, if you snap and kill someone and stab them a bunch of times, but you don't have the presence of mind to do shapes.

[Amy Bruni]

Shapes and designs. Designs and shapes. The thing on the forehead, also putting the cloth on and then taking it off, like you would do one or the other. It means something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And it has meaning to you.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it is a ritual to you. Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

This priest, like, he can't see her while she's still alive, but he's fine seeing her and stabbing her when she's dead. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the cloth was on when he did the inverted cross.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. So she was probably alive during that. And then he. She was dead. And so he could take it off and kill her, like, and stab her more. Which is creepy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Then he knows he's stabbing a dead body and then a priest 22 times.

[Amy Bruni]

Takes her clothing off. It's like, oh, you know, like, if you just wanted to kill her, then just do that. But then going through this, like, to make it look sexual and like people who try to make it look sexual so that they think it's someone else are still doing this crazy sexual thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, that's right.

[Amy Bruni]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. It's. There's all. There's so many questions that I have. And. And I'm the one that looked up the story.

[Amy Bruni]

Thank God. That's. No, no, no. I mean, these are questions that, like, only he can answer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Amy Bruni]

You know, these are not questions that we can.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I mean, because they didn't. He. He filed appeals. He. He pled not guilty. He filed appeals. The jury Convicted him in, like, six hours. He was convicted of. They reduced the charge from aggravated murder to just regular murder, but then he just was in jail for the rest of his life and died there. And they convicted him on my birthday in 2006.

[Amy Bruni]

Happy birthday. Was that a good birthday for you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's see. I swear to God. Like, these last. I would say eight birthdays I have almost no memory of.

[Amy Bruni]

That's probably good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's all the same when you get to my age. Girls, guys, when you get to my age.

[Amy Bruni]

I'm taking a photo of you right now because Alice is, like, sitting next to you, just listening to you intently.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's my good friend. Yeah, so that's that. Do I have any makeup on?

[Amy Bruni]

No, you look great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have work face. Priest Gerald Robinson, probably not in heaven right now. Might be in purgatory. Good chance he's in hell.

[Amy Bruni]

Most likely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, Jews don't believe in hell.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, well, depends on which Jew you ask.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's. He's. You know where he is. For all the Jews out there, he's waiting at line. In line at the Cheesecake Factory, and he cannot get seated.

[Amy Bruni]

That sounds anti Semitic. I just can't figure out how.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it racist?

[Amy Bruni]

No, I don't care.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Care. No, no, I don't care.

[Amy Bruni]

No, I do it. I do have it on. Anti Semitic. All right, that was good. That was up. That was up. So it was good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, good.

Okay, we're back. Happy Yom Kippur.

[Amy Bruni]

Hey to everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And Happy Purim, when that is relevant.

[Amy Bruni]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you have any updates, Karen?

[Georgia Hardstark]

There are no updates on this case. It's one of those.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's old, it's done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just the kind of thing that gets reported on. I do have information that's equally as important. I know what the sacristy of a chapel is now, and it is what.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I thought it was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the dressing room of the church.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the backstage area.

[Amy Bruni]

It's the green room.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I think I called it the backstage backstage, where all the vestments and the sacred items and the liturgical supplies are stored.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when. Where the priests get ready before church, basically.

Me, me, me, me, me. Like God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Gah, gah, gah, gah. I love New York. I need New York.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I need unique New York also. I want to talk about this. And thank you, Alice Nagasti, for including this piece of information. We talked about this clown panic that actually happened during 2016.

[Amy Bruni]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very real.

Just the person standing on a corner in A clown costume at night, Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holding an act.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the part that sucks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There was an element to it that was very intentionally threatening. And once one. It was like, it would happen in one state and then it would start happening in other states.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Someone was like, some teenager was like, great idea. And would go do it themselves because.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It would go on the news and then there would show the video of, like, someone in a car passing a clown holding an ax just standing on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The side of the road.

Now, do you think that's legal? Like, without the ax? Fucking fine, Whatever. Loitering. But with the axe, is that like threatening someone's life?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With a deadly weapon kind of thing.

Is it about, like, how high up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You'Re holding that axe? An angle, Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you a smiling clown or are you a crying clown?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you just picking your nails with that ax? No big deal. Trying to get some broccoli out of your teeth. You're fine. Sure.

[Amy Bruni]

God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So let me just tell you a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Little bit about this very real evil.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Clown panic of 2016, okay? So the president of the World Clown Association, Randy Christensen, actually had to come out and condemn this trend. Noting the negative effects on legitimate clown performers and related businesses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He said, we're full of people that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Love children, bring smiles and wanna help people laugh and bring comic relief. The people dressing up are trying to scare people. No professional clown would ever take part in anything like that. At this time. McDonald's even limited Ronald McDonald appearances at any kind of live event.

[Amy Bruni]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how scared people were of clowns.

When you have influence over at McDonald's.

[Amy Bruni]

Like, good job, Ann.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then it came back briefly in 2017. Cause the chapter one came out, which is kind of hilarious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then it just went away.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then it just went away.

[Amy Bruni]

So weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What were they distracting us from?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is how it's all working.

People who was behind the mask?

That's a circus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stop eating your bread. Okay, now it's time for Georgia's story about the Gage park stabbings.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Foreign.

[Kyle Tequila]

I'm Langston Kermit. Sometimes I'm on tv.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm David Bore, and I'm probably on TV right now.

[Amy Bruni]

David and I are going to take.

[Kyle Tequila]

A deep dive every week into the most exciting, groundbreaking, and sometimes problematic black conspiracy theories.

[Amy Bruni]

We've had amazing past notable guests like.

[Kyle Tequila]

Brandon Kyle Goodman, Sam J. Quinta Brunson.

[Amy Bruni]

And so many more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

New episodes are out every Tuesday, many episodes out on Thursdays where we answer you, the listeners, conspiracy theories.

[Kyle Tequila]

Listen to my mama told me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Bruni]

Why would you do that to me?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Los Angeles, 2021. A friendly neighbor appears out of nowhere and promises to make all my dreams come true. Let's not forget that David Bloom was.

[Amy Bruni]

A professional con artist, so you didn't stand a chance.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But my dreams soon turned into a Nightmare. I'm Caroline D'Amore. Listen as I take down my scammer.

[Amy Bruni]

On Once Upon a con on the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mi genmosa. Wilmer Valderrama. Jose Freddy Rodriguez, host of the new podcast Dos Amigos.

[Kyle Tequila]

In this series, we candidly reflect on our careers, life, art, and everything in between.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And each episode emanates from our very own speakeasy. And it features us talking about pivotal moments, hilarious anecdotes, and invaluable collaborations that helped us become who we are today. Listen to Dos Amigos Thursdays on the IHI radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amy Bruni]

So, all right, since we're going to be at the Chicago Podcast Festival, I wanted to give a big ups to Chicago by doing Chicago Murder. No. What is it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The torso murders?

[Amy Bruni]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, wait, no, that's Ohio.

[Amy Bruni]

Also, I want to apologize for to Indianapolis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, they were hurt.

[Amy Bruni]

I know, but they were so funny about it that it makes me want to go there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Amy Bruni]

Last week I said I never want to go to Indianapolis and everyone was just like, like, yeah, we get it. They were like, really cool about it. And I'm like, oh, they sound cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Amy Bruni]

I'll go to Indianapolis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also, to me, when you said that, you clearly were just pulling a city name out of your. It wasn't like you've been there and you're all bummed.

[Amy Bruni]

No, I mean, realistically, it's Cincinnati. Every one of every episode, I just name the city and piss the entire country off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, you just. But always keep it in that area. Like that very contained area in the.

[Amy Bruni]

Midwest that realistically, we're never going to go to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We are so going to go on a train tour. That is Indianapolis.

[Amy Bruni]

That's good. To the. The places Georgia is kind of meh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On up to Peoria, Illinois.

[Amy Bruni]

Uhhuh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then right back down.

[Amy Bruni]

Pittsburgh. You're on that list.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Pittsburgh parties.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pittsburgh's good times.

[Amy Bruni]

Is it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

Okay. Yeah, I'll be there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Come on. I've done some colleges.

[Amy Bruni]

It's true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I stayed at some of the best days in around this country. I can tell you all. Thank you so much. I saw the highway and the byway, the thruway.

[Amy Bruni]

Can I go, please? Okay. I'm kidding.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't care.

[Amy Bruni]

So this is. I don't want to. I want to stop laughing while I say what this is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good idea.

[Amy Bruni]

This is the Gage park stabbings. Yeah, exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stabbings. Plural.

[Amy Bruni]

Stabbings. Multiple.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What city did you say?

[Amy Bruni]

Chicago.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

Okay, so February 4th, 2016. That's recent. Oh, that's right after we started this podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Amy Bruni]

Police were called to perform a well being check at the Martinez family home, which is Engaged park, which is a quiet working class neighborhood in the southwest side of Chicago. No one from the family had been seen since February 2, two days before. And a co worker of one of the family members had like been to the police, like, what's up? So the police go and the doors to the Martinez family house are locked and there's no signs of horse entry. But once the police get inside, they discover the bodies of the entire Martinez family.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How many people?

[Amy Bruni]

Molly? Ready for this? So Noe Martinez Sr. He's 62. He's found just inside the front door with, with blood all over his head and arms. And he had had 10 stab wounds to the chest. Noe's wife, 58 year old Rosario Rosaro Martinez was found inside the back porch step 45 times in her head, neck, chest, abdomen, including more than two dozen times in her head, head. Stab wounds, man, I can't fucking deal with. These are like, you gotta like stab hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's rage. Yeah, it's, that's crazy rage.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. Their daughter, 32 year old Maria Martinez had died of four gunshot wounds to the head. And their son, Noe Martinez Jr. Who's 38, was found next to his sister. They were both in an upstairs bedroom. He had 16 blunt force injuries to his head and another 13 stab wounds to the head. So here's the real sad part. I mean that's a bummer. But the sons of Maria Alexis Cruz, who was 10, was discovered in the basement and he had 11 stab wounds to the torso and 16 defensive wounds to his arms and hands. And then 13 year old Leonardo Cruz is found on the front porch with 11 stab wounds to the head, shoulder and chest. Who the. Oh my God. So it was believed that all six were killed within about a three hour period.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the doors, Nightmare.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah, the doors are locked. You know, no one's been heard from since the second. Oh, the family dog, Palooza, which is Spanish for fuzzy, was found alive inside covered in blood and visibly shaken.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that poor dog. I mean, Jesus Christ.

[Amy Bruni]

And this is like a few, like less than a year ago in Chicago, like a nice family. So police originally thought it was a murder suicide, but the autopsy proved otherwise. And there were three types of knives used and none of them were there. So they were like, clearly this and a gun. Then a month after the family was killed, they still hadn't found anyone and people were like freaking out that there was some crazy killer on the loose. So the police kind of started looking into the theory that maybe the killer or killers had. It was like a hit and they had hit the wrong home because the family had no ties to drugs and, you know, nothing criminal at all. So they were starting to think that maybe because all the houses looked similar in that area that they, that these criminals had hit the wrong home, which is fucking terrifying, horrible. The cops said it's possible they targeted the wrong home for whatever reasons they were trying to get into a residence there. The family was targeted, but whether it was domestic related or possibly a Mexican cartel remains unclear. They said, let's see. Okay, so those were the initial theories. Then eventually they started thinking that the family had been specifically targeted because Maria Martinez, who they thought was the main target, had been shot rather than stabbed. So they were like, that's fucking weird. So around three months later, while the whole neighborhood's freaking out, the detectives get a tip that the 22 year old nephew of Maria's ex husband had shown up the day after with noticeable injuries. His name is Diego Uribe, and detectives get a DNA sample of him from him a few weeks later. His DNA matched the blood under Maria's fingernails. And phone records also placed Diego Uribe in the area when the murders occurred. 22 year old fucking nephew.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What the. The.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. Yeah. So on May 19, 2016, the Chicago Police announced first degree murder charges against Uribe, saying he had killed all six of them, including the two children in a robbery that had turned into a massacre. Although it seems like he had wanted to kill them in addition to rob them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you don't. No, that's. You don't kill six people. You don't kill two fucking children. Because it's like a robbery gone wrong.

[Amy Bruni]

No. And his girlfriend, Japheth Ramos, who was 19, was also charged. So it seems like Martinez, who was close to the boys and close to the family, they let him into the house because they knew him and he was there a lot. And he had gotten into an argument with Maria upstairs and had shot her first. And then her brother, Noe Jr goes upstairs after hearing the shots, and he beats him to death. Death with the gun. Then the mom, Rocero Martinez, goes upstairs. She gets killed next. And then he found the boys, and he made them get cash and Xbox and other valuables from various rooms in the house after he had killed their family. And then he took the boys, Alexis, to the basement, stabs him to death, and murders the other boy while he begs for his life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's a fucking animal.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. And he's admitting, like they admitted to all of this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Amy Bruni]

And then he waits for the grandfather to get home and kills him on the porch. So they, Reba and Ramos made off with an Xbox, about 550 in cash and jewelry, and then they pawned for about 150 bucks. And they said it was because they needed money for milk and diapers for their son, as well as a car. And so she's not. She. They don't think she actually killed anyone, but they think she was a, quote, active participant. So she was there, like, cheering him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

On, holding people down?

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah, probably. But they both confess. They're both charged with first degree murder, held without bail, but. So they said they needed it for money. But apparently there was tension between Uribe and Maria Martinez because when Maria divorced Uribe's uncle, he had a, quote, lot of anger over how she had treated him. But another family member said that the uncle was super controlling of Maria and didn't allow her to take showers, put on makeup, or leave the house without his permission. So he hates her, but meanwhile she's in this crazy, controlling relationship and finally gets out of it. So, yeah, they're being charged with first degree murder. All the victims are going to be buried in Mexico. The Mexican Consulate of Chicago is assisting in moving the bodies back to Mexico. That's fucking Chicago in February. And I'd never heard of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I've never heard that.

[Amy Bruni]

That's huge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, it's fascinating. You kill six people of your family and you have the foresight to, like, lock the door when you leave. So, like, that tiny detail is so confusing that they would assume all these weird things. Oh, my God.

[Amy Bruni]

But the weird detail to me, too, is that he waited for the grandfather to come home because he wanted there to be a couple days in between the bodies being found. And he knew that if he just left without killing the grandfather, who was probably home every night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

Then he would come home to these bodies and it would be a quicker fucking discovery. I mean, so he waits for him, kills him, and Locks the doors.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, what brand of psycho are you when you can kill all those people? Like, I mean, it's just. It's upsetting to hear about it. Much less he did it and then, like, took a break and then did a little bit more so that he could fucking have. What?

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

$500.

[Amy Bruni]

It doesn't make. It clearly isn't about that because it doesn't make any sense. Like, you can rob the family without murdering them all. But I think he went over there with the intention of killing them so he could rob them. Which if he. He kills her first by shooting her, and then you would think he would stab her because he's so angry with her and then shoot the others.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, did they say anything about drugs?

[Amy Bruni]

There was no drugs involved. What? Neither of. Neither of them had a record. The girlfriend had been arrested once for shoplifting or something like minor shoplifting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Amy Bruni]

But it's just. Yeah, it's like you don't even. You don't even rob strangers. You rob these two kids that you used to go over and play video games with and. And be and befriended that were younger than you, and you can kill them. Like, that's psychopath. That's to me. Yeah. It's like these. It's just these crazy circumstances that you become this or are always a psychopath and nobody knows about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, exactly. That family's like, come on in. Oh, it's cousin Ricky or whatever the his name is.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Amy Bruni]

We'Re gonna do good things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We need a good things moment, really. We need, like, a good themes, theme song so we can both lay down for a minute podcast.

[Amy Bruni]

I guess my good thing is being yelled outside. Well, being in San Francisco was so much fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, did it rain while you were up there?

[Amy Bruni]

No, it was gorgeous. It was actually too hot. I know. It was like 90 something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit. But people must have been naked when. When the sun comes out and it's like 78 in San Francisco, people are like, my shorts. Like, it's the funniest thing in the world.

[Amy Bruni]

The first thing we did was get falafels from truly Mediterranean and sit in. What's that part called?

[Karen Kilgariff]

The. Is it the one that's up near the hate? Yeah, yeah.

[Amy Bruni]

No, not Golden Gate park, anyways.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no. But there's a part. There's a small park that's like. If you go down toward the lower Hate.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah, it was just full of, like, college kids and. And not no clothes and like, everyone was getting high and it was just like. Like super sweet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yay.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So fun.

[Amy Bruni]

So I think the highlight of my week was that getting. That was my first time, like, getting yelled at by a stranger about the podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, that's the best.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah, it was really nice out a car. I know. Thank you to whoever that was. What was. How about your. The best moment of your week, Karen?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I have to say the going to watch Never Not Funny Live was awesome because those guys are so hilarious. And Edie McClure was there. She was just there to watch the show. She's legendary. You may know her as the school secretary from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. She's all right. I just. Dude.

[Amy Bruni]

God, she's so cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's been in over a thousand movies. They were looking at her IMDb and talking about her and she's the cutest, though. Yes. And she got up to walk to the stage because they heard she was there. And then they invited her up to say hi and she couldn't see because she was up in the back and it was super dark. So I went and grabbed her hand and walked her up and that's when Jimmy gave us the shout out.

[Amy Bruni]

Did he give us a shout out or just say something about it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, he doesn't. You know, he's like, he talks like he's, you know, like, he's always talks like he's a professional radio man.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he actually was like Karen Kogara from my favorite burger podcast. And then he started pretending he was.

[Amy Bruni]

Mad about it, riffing on you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was really awesome.

[Amy Bruni]

That's so sweet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that was good. But it also made me happy because, like, after a long day of work, sometimes going to a comedy show is like the best thing in the world. Instead of just going home and being like, I'm tired, I'm gonna try to watch some show that I will fall asleep no matter what in five minutes. Going and watching my friends be hilarious and say the best things and riff. Shit it like, it's. It's life affirming.

[Amy Bruni]

Plus, I know that you're quick makeup in the car person. And I feel like sometimes being forced to put makeup on makes you feel better. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Amy Bruni]

Like, that's what I do in the, like when I go work at cafes during the day now I make my. Like I. I have eyelash extensions. I make myself put on makeup because I will immediately have a better day. Like, feel better about myself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. There was for like five years when I was in my, what I like to call now, the hermit phase. And which is infuriating because anytime I did a podcast or anything, I would remember when I got there. Oh, I'm gonna have to. They're gonna make me take a fucking picture at the end of forgot.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For a long time. I just wouldn't. I'd be like, what for? Who cares? Like, who's gonna see me? It doesn't matter.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And. And then just recently. Yeah. Just to. Just to go and be somewhere and just kind of feel like I'm out and I'm in the world and I'm of the world.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Putting on some. A nice liquid eyeliner.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. A nice rosy like. Like tint. Lip tint.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A lip tint that will stay for a couple hours. Keep you young and fresh looking. Yeah. It's a good glossier.

[Amy Bruni]

Can we get another ad, please?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Glossier. How about you represent us as we represent you all goddamn day long.

[Amy Bruni]

Shilling our peckin.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shilling, shilling, shilling it. Shillin, shillin. Minding our business. Thanks for listening to my favorite murder. We love you for loving murder like we do.

[Amy Bruni]

Yeah. You guys are the best. Thank you, Murderinos.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you for your support. And stay sexy.

[Amy Bruni]

Don't get murder. Elvis, you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cookie?

[Amy Bruni]

Want cookie? Elvis, you want a cookie? Cookie? Come on, cookie boy. Elvis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There he is.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, he's like, pay me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye. Okay, we are back. Do you have updates on this case?

I have a few updates. When I covered this case, the murders had taken place earlier that same year, so the trial hadn't happened yet. So in November 2022, a jury found Diego Urabe guilty of six counts of murder. He was sentenced to life in prison and provided no further explanation for why he targeted the poor members of his own family for robbery and murder, which is just so confounding. Japheth Ramos, Urabai's girlfriend, ended up testifying against him, and she made a deal with prosecutors for a lesser charge of armed robbery in the hope that she would one day be able to be with her son, who was barely a toddler at the time.

[Amy Bruni]

Like, what a waste of heartbreaking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. In December 2022, she was sentenced to 25 years in prison.

[Amy Bruni]

That's the end, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, we should put the photo of you. It's so cute of you and Elvis.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, me and Elvis really being best friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You've got this, like, whelp look on your face.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's me being like, oh, do I have another job to go to now?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love that. We're gonna post it on Instagram, so check that out.

That's the real crossover of when I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Started to realize you can't ever not wear makeup.

[Amy Bruni]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can't just not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

You look so cute and the long hair. Elvis looks a little like disappointed.

Elvis is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here's what I loved about Elvis and his company. He would just come and be like, I'll be near you now. I'll give you the present. My presence. And you could feel it, but he wouldn't. It's like he doesn't really want you to pet him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I don't want it on your lap. I don't need to pet me. And like, I just wanna be part of this.

Yeah. He really was such a part of.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It for so long.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, so I like that episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, those are good. So it was originally titled Sidebar Nation. It's just because we can't stop going off topic. Off topic, off topic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The whole podcast should be called Sidebar Nation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Actually there should be like, what's it called? Spinoff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It'll be a spinoff where two young women play us. Lip sync it. Two drag queens lip sync it. Call it Sidebar Nation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'd love that. But if we were naming it today, maybe we would call it the hurricane episode. Just cause of everything happening quickly at the top of the episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, there's a bunch of action. Or we could call it Cools for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fools, which Georgia tried to tell the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Story of what happened to her in front of McDonald's and saying that she tried to play it cool but couldn't play it cool. You were jumping up and down.

[Amy Bruni]

I was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'll never play it cool. That's just not me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No cools for fools, baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Well, thank you guys. You're cool. Thanks for listening to Rewind.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, thanks for being here with us and continuing on. We do this every week on Wednesdays. Just looking at old shows and I don't know, I guess we're just podcasting forever. So join us, please, and stay sexy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And don't get murdered.

[Amy Bruni]

Goodbye, Elvis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you want a cookie?

Okay. So we all need to get away from the world sometimes. Well, in the all new 2025 Nissan Murano, you don't even have to go anywhere. The Murano is the getaway. Just picture it. The Bose premium sound system plays your favorite music as the Murano's massaging leather appointed seats melt away your stress. Yeah, that's a real getaway. Drive the all new 2025 Nissan Murano today. Bows and massaging leather appointed seats are optional features.

[Kyle Tequila]

This is John Cameron Mitchell. And my new fiction podcast series, Cancellation island stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently canceled. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing.

[Amy Bruni]

Karen, where have you brought us?

[Kyle Tequila]

Listen to Cancellation island on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paola Pedrosa]

Welcome. My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium and the host of the Ghost Therapy podcast, where it's not just about connecting with deceased loved ones, it's about learning through them and their new perspective. I think God sent me this gift so I can show it to the world. And most of all, I help people every single day. Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.