Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 39: Kind of Loco

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 39: Kind of Loco"

Podcast Information:

• Title: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
• Hosts: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
• Network: iHeartPodcasts, Exactly Right podcast network
• Episode: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 39: Kind of Loco
• Release Date: April 2, 2025

---

Introduction and Overview

In Episode 39, titled "Kind of Loco," Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark take listeners on a deep dive into two infamous true crime cases: Charles Albright, known as the Texas Eyeball Killer, and Edmund Kemper, the Co-Ed Killer. This episode serves as a retrospective "rewind," where the hosts revisit their earlier discussions, providing fresh commentary, updates, and personal insights.

---

Social Media Interactions and Community Engagement

[06:31] Georgia Hardstark:
"Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia."

[07:00] Karen Kilgariff:
"We love hearing from our Murderinos! Courtney from Coffinbugs shared her intricate pumpkin carvings, and David (hello, Dabwood) sent us an adorable animated GIF of us driving with Elvis and a murderer in the backseat."

The hosts express gratitude towards their listeners, highlighting fan-submitted content such as pumpkin carvings and creative graphics. They discuss the vibrant online community, mentioning interactions on Twitter and Instagram, and encourage listeners to continue sharing their creations.

[09:20] Karen Kilgariff:
"Just had Courtney send us pictures of her. She didn't name the person in the picture with her, but it was a picture of the two of them carving pumpkins."

They emphasize the importance of listener contributions, showcasing how fan art and engagement enrich the podcast experience.

---

Case Study 1: Charles Albright, the Texas Eyeball Killer

Karen and Georgia delve into the grisly case of Charles Albright, whose moniker stems from his peculiar modus operandi of removing his victims' eyes post-mortem. The discussion is both detailed and emotionally charged, highlighting the systematic and calculated nature of Albright's crimes.

Early Crimes and Profiling

[27:32] Georgia Hardstark:
"So on December 13, 1990, the body of Mary Lou Pratt was found in Oak Cliff, Dallas. She was a well-known sex worker, shot in the back of the head with a .44 caliber gun. The killer had meticulously removed her eyes, leaving no damage to her eyelids."

[30:09] Karen Kilgariff:
"Taking eyes. It's fucked."

The hosts explore the brutality and precision of Albright's actions, noting the forensic evidence that linked him to multiple murders. They discuss how Albright evaded immediate suspicion, thanks to his seemingly normal life and intelligence.

[33:50] Georgia Hardstark:
"I don't think you needed Albright watching women, but he had that obsession with eyes. It’s so morbidly fascinating to me."

[41:37] Georgia Hardstark:
"My, what a big trunk you have, grandma."

Impacts and Investigations

The episode covers the investigation process, highlighting how forensic evidence like hair matches played a crucial role in Albright's eventual conviction. They also touch on the challenges faced by law enforcement in connecting the dots across different crime scenes.

[55:38] Karen Kilgariff:
"He took their bodies back to his apartment, raped their corpses, and dismembered them, leaving body parts scattered around the Bay Area."

Conclusion of Albright's Case

Albright's trial and sentencing are discussed, with the hosts commenting on the legal outcomes and the lingering questions about his motives and mental state.

[64:37] Karen Kilgariff:
"Edmund Kemper's life sentence continues, and despite numerous parole attempts, he's still deemed highly dangerous."

---

Case Study 2: Edmund Kemper, the Co-Ed Killer

Transitioning to Edmund Kemper, Karen and Georgia dissect his transformation from a troubled youth to one of America's most notorious serial killers. They analyze his upbringing, psychological profile, and the escalation of his violent behavior.

Early Life and Psychological Profile

[69:09] Georgia Hardstark:
"You knew you were gonna say that."

[70:01] Georgia Hardstark:
"So a serial killer is a person who's killed three or more people on three or more occasions with a cooling off period in between crimes."

The hosts outline Kemper's abusive childhood, particularly focusing on his domineering mother and his own early signs of antisocial behavior. They discuss how Kemper's intelligence and manipulative skills allowed him to blend into society and evade suspicion for years.

[80:55] Georgia Hardstark:
"He was a runner for one of the doctors, like an assistant to one of the doctors. That enabled him to read the doctor's files and learn psychological tests, making him appear normal."

[83:02] Karen Kilgariff:
"He was a humongous monster. Six foot nine."

Escalation and Crimes

Kemper's crimes, including the brutal murders of hitchhikers and his own grandparents, are examined in detail. The hosts emphasize the premeditated nature of his actions and his ability to manipulate his surroundings to his advantage.

[87:00] Georgia Hardstark:
"He suffocates her until she's unconscious. He puts a bag over her mouth so he's up close into this killing, you know, horribly."

Psychological Insights and Reflections

Karen and Georgia reflect on the psychological aspects of Kemper's behavior, questioning his capacity for remorse and understanding of his actions. They also discuss the impact of the lack of intervention during his youth, which could have potentially altered his path.

[97:56] Karen Kilgariff:
"Mental health is very important. Untreated mental illness affects people terribly."

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with updates on both cases, including Edmund Kemper's current status and reflections on the systemic failures that allowed these killers to continue their atrocities. Karen and Georgia emphasize the importance of mental health awareness and the need for early intervention in preventing such tragedies.

[103:38] Georgia Hardstark:
"How you can't intervene early, it's tragic."

[105:30] Karen Kilgariff:
"Give yourself 10 months to really work out some really serious kinks if you're starting your podcast."

The hosts end on a poignant note, urging listeners to stay vigilant and compassionate, underscoring the thin line between fascination and empathy in the realm of true crime.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff [27:32]:
  "Taking eyes. It's fucked."

• Georgia Hardstark [41:37]:
  "My, what a big trunk you have, grandma."

• Georgia Hardstark [97:56]:
  "Mental health is very important. Untreated mental illness affects people terribly."

---

Closing Remarks

Karen and Georgia encourage listeners to engage with their content, share their stories, and support one another within the podcast community. They blend their trademark humor with serious discussions, making complex and dark topics accessible and thought-provoking for their audience.

[106:30] Karen Kilgariff:
"Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2, starting April 9 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts."

---

Final Thoughts

"Kind of Loco" is a compelling episode that balances the macabre details of serial killers with the hosts' unique comedic perspectives. Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark provide an in-depth analysis of the Texas Eyeball Killer and the Co-Ed Killer, offering insights into their psychological profiles and the broader implications of their crimes. This episode serves as both an informative true crime recount and a testament to the enduring bond between the hosts and their dedicated fanbase.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right. You know those commercials where a single impossibly shiny car glides down a beautiful winding country road with a horse running along a fence?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah, that's not real life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. But Hyundai's available class exclusive advanced safety features are designed for the roads we actually drive on, helping to keep you and your family protected.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hyundai vehicles are equipped with a standard driver attention warning system, which constantly monitors your attention levels.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Learn more about Hyundai@Hyundai USA USA.com or call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's H Y U N d a I usa.com or call 562-314-4603. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one. Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Scott and the son he'd never known.

[Georgia Hardstark]

At the end of the day, I'm.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Literally a son of a killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2, starting April 9 on the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My savior.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's Wednesday, and that means that we're recapping one of our old shows with all new commentary and updates and insights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Today, we're recapping episode 39, which we named Kind of Loco.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Join us as we journey back to October 19, 2016, the date of the final presidential debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Crying emoji. Crying emoji. Let's listen to the intro of episode 39.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you ready to make some magic?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know magic?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I know up close magic. Ooh, I can't do distance magic, though. Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'll live.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Welcome to my favorite murder. I'm Karen Kilgariff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm Georgia Hardstark. And together we're Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Yes. Playing along.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How's it going?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey. It's good. How are you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're. We're at a different speed this week. Somebody wrote us on Twitter and said that on the last episode, we seemed hysterical, which I agree. I think we were slightly hysterical.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We were just like. We were just, like, ramped up one notch.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It was like powering through it, like, I need to get through this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it was fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We had a great time. That's all that matters. Yeah. We enjoyed ourselves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, who wants a droll, boring pod like murder Comedy podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, Yeah, I don't think. I don't think most people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you've come here for a narrative true crime podcast, then just add Adderall and that's what you fucking have. It's like. It's like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Similar.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're actually on physicians grade cocaine, though. That's. This. That's the secret to this podcast.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wonder what that's like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's pretty great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you had a chance. Never mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If I could do a drug again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, but like. But like, if someone was like, this. Is this physician's grade, like, government, whatever the fuck drug, would you do it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which drug?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, coke, let's say.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure. Well, I can't. You mean, like if. If I didn't have any of my. I have all kinds of neurological disorders because I did all that. Don't do drugs, kids. It's not worth it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's totally only because of that. He wouldn't have had the money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a theory. They can't, you know, having epilepsy or seizure disorder. They don't know why exactly. Unless they look at your brain, like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dropped on your head close up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was dropped in my head.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't tell you that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think you probably did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I did. My mom tripped over my high chair when I was six months old.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't think I knew this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And she broke her arm. We both fell, and I hit my head and had to get stitches. I still have a tiny, tiny scar, but I'm totally the serial killer, as we have discussed in this podcast, because I had that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna have to kill you before you kill me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That makes sense, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think that'd be a great way to go. Just do it. Creep up behind me as a favor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah, no, you got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But no stabbing, slicing, please. Julienne me to death. I know you love cooking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love cooking. I'm gonna julienne you and I'm gonna put you in a Cuisinart. I'm gonna serve you. Yeah, yeah. Don't do drugs. You guys, don't do drugs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We did them for you. We can come back and tell you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not what it's cut out to be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like how my dad used to say he would never get cable. We lived way out in the country, so we only got four channels, and he wouldn't get cable. He'd go, hey, we have that in the firehouse. It's no good. He'd be like, let us try. We'll decide if we like it or not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Decided for you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's protected you guys from so much. And yet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And yet it didn't. We are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, sorry. I hit the. Oh, wait, go ahead. What was I gonna. Yeah, don't do drugs. I know. We're gonna get some email of some mommy. Like, I listen with my 12 year old. Darling. Now you're. You're telling her to do drugs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, guess what, mom, don't listen with your 12 year old. I won't even have it. I listen with my 12 year old. This is a comedy murder podcast. It is highly inappropriate that anybody would be listening to this at that point.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's on you, Mommy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, don't come at us, mommy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then like that night she goes to bed and then looks in the doorway and there's a glint of silver.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who's that? One of you up? Yeah, I'm a mommy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

High on angel dust. Like government quality angel dust.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because you wouldn't let us warn your children off of angel dust.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You stopped. You pressed stop at the point where we're talking about doing drugs and didn't listen to the rest of the podcast where we said.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We said don't do drugs under any circumstances. Ever do that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I mean, we. We did them and look at us now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're. I look like I'm about 62.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Unsuccessful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But. But nose. I just had a couple thank yous for. From the Twitter page. Oh, I love it because people send us amazing, great stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The best. I can. I do some off Instagram then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're Twitter and I'm Instagram saying it like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nope, only me. Only Twitter. You absolutely can. I love it. Just had Courtney sent us pictures of her. She didn't name the person in the picture with her, but it was a picture of the two of them. They had carved pumpkins.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I have it. And I do have the name of the other girl because they both posted it. And I was like, I'm gonna give them both a shout out because what about them are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is one of them. This is my Instagram area and I've overstepped.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, but they tweeted it. Then you retweet it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, but there was no names.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, well, anyway, they carved stay sexy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don'T get murdered, and you're in a cult. Call your dad into pumpkins. Which must have taken hours.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I can't carve a pumpkin like that. Every time I try to cover a pumpkin, it's disappointing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you cut your hand and you get that goop in it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And halfway through, you're like, what, though? I don't give a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then you just eat these pumpkin seeds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A triangle for an eye. Fine. He get. You know what? He's a cyclops.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know what? One triangle eye and one tooth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Boom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Done.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can I have another glass of wine, please? And I don't want to eat these disgusting pump. You know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, let's cook them up. No, I'm not in second grade. I'm not falling for pumpkin seeds an hour. But you don't need the fiber.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But they're sweet baby angels.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was Courtney at Coffinbugs is her Twitter handle.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, well, then the other girl is Wandering Lamb on Instagram.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sweet. It could be the same girl, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Might very well. But either way, they're friends and I'm. And I think they're both tagged in the Instagram.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, good. If her name is on Twitter, Coffin Bugs. And then on Instagram, Wandering Lamb. That girl contains multitudes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Absolutely.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God bless her soul. But then David, whose Twitter handle is hello, Dabwood, which is kind of like Dagwood with but with a B, as in boy made an animated gif of us driving a car. I'm driving. You've got Elvis on your lap. There's a lightning storm in this car. And then when the lightning hits, there's a murderer in the backseat.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But it is so charming and well done and, like, adorable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Beautiful.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You showed it to me when you got here. Because I didn't know. Because I don't. Cause Twitter overwhelms me. And, like, it's the best thing I've ever fucking seen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't it the best?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I think Instagram, for me, I think that if you want to see the cool shit that people make for the. For our show, which is a fucking ton of stuff. The instagram.com My favorite murder or just my favorite murder. Instagram. I just. I'm constantly posting stuff on that because of other people's stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They make a chill.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's very cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's crazy and fun.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And fun. And so everyone's so talented, and I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love all those artists that are like, I was listening to you, and I started sketching this thing, and then it turns into this beautiful. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then people are like, I want this as a shirt. And then they go, make money. I'm like, go make fucking money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. It's so cool. Another Murderinos buy it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm so happy for them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just one last One, which was Allison. Her Twitter handle is Turboally, and she had been listening to an old episode and reminded everybody, please clean out your lint trap in your dryer, please. And I makes me happy that she tweeted it, but I want to remind people as well. I worry about your homes burning down a lot because that's my personal neuroses.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, your father was a fireman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

An equally neurotic fireman who would yell at us if there was even a hint of lint in the lint trap.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I'm saying to you, that reminds me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That there is this thing on Alice. Alyssa. Is that who this she is? It might be the same girl. Alyssa on our Facebook group made something called Karen. Georgia and Karen's rules for how to stay sexy and not get murdered or not be a murderer or murder suspect. Her name is Joanna Groom. I don't know. I think it's her. Her website.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But there's a couple. This is a running list that I will continue to add to as G and K continue to preach. 1. Number one, if you came here to learn, you're in the wrong place.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Number two, guys, if you ever find something, say something. Or. Or you look fucking susp. Your parents won't get mad if at you for being on someone's land. If you find a skull. Number three, if you find a body, you should tell someone. That's true. Number four, guys, do not sell your government secrets. And it goes on and on for like, fucking. It's at like. Oh, my God. It's at like, 129 at this point.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus Christ.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want to give out the. The website, but I don't know what it is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it's on the Facebook page, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's. I'll put it on the Facebook page. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So my. It's my. It's hilarious MFM podcast is the Facebook page.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you, Joanna, for keeping that list.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it. That's hilarious. What do you got? What corner do you have?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have. Oh, my God. I got recognized corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which is always fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is separate from San Francisco.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But the girl messaged me on Instagram that it was her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, nice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it was like her. She had just gotten engaged and she saw us, me, and she was so excited. Oh, I know. Congratulations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a good omen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Seeing me or getting engaged?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her seeing you right when she got engaged.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. That's exciting that maybe she won't get murdered by her future husband.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, you Never know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You don't ever know. Oh. So I was walking out of a juice place in Los Feliz, and some girl just goes, my favorite murder. Which I totally get. Because you see someone, you're like, I just have to say the thing that I know you from immediately, because I didn't stop and say what you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I was like, yay. Like, held the juices over my head in triumph. And I was like, thank you. Because it was the first time I got recognized, like, in my neighborhood, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cool hipster girl. Like, we all are around here, and I love that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I have one. April and I were eating in the diner we always eat at.

[Georgia Hardstark]

April Richardson, everyone's favorite adorable from Go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bayside podcast and stand up comedy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you were eating in a diner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We eat in a diner as we do, and a girl walked by outside and then walked in, pulled out her earbuds and just said, I just want to let you know I love your podcast. I think she may have said, I'm listening to it right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God. That's always been like a dream of walking by someone whose podcast I'm listening to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wouldn't that be the weirdest feeling in the world? But I might be just saying that because that would be a really good part of a story.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like she did.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's go with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But anyway, that was kind of exciting. And then she left. And April goes, this is like a hard day's night. I was like, it's really not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's exactly like that. It's totally as getting chased through the street by one person who politely came.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Into the diner, came in quietly, and then immediately left as we sat at a table.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Eating salad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fun times. Thanks for your support and love you guys. It really means a lot to us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is weird and fun and we love it and. Oh, my God, I can't believe it. That was freak out corner. Yeah, there's so many corners. There's like, too many corners. I don't think that equals an actual room.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, it's a mansion. It's a mansion of corners.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you want to talk about last week when I had to drop in the correct. What if I did it again? Because it's now changed again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tell her my favorite mo. So I'm listening to my own podcast, Quality control, ma'am. I mean, we can say that, or we could call it ego non control.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whatever it takes. Quality control.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I enjoy listening back because when we do it oftentimes it's just a blur. And then I go, oh, we did say that's funny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or do the thing where you picture someone like that, you like listening to the podcast. This is what I sound like. That's when I stop listening. Because then I'm like, oh, no, you know what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I keep doing this. What the fuck is wrong with my laugh? Next week, Georgia, control your laugh. It's like goofy and fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't you dare. The worst thing in the world you could do is change or control your laugh. I learned that in stand up comedy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because in comedy, standing in the back, you're always trying to get people to know you're laughing at their joke. But if you try to have like, say, a feminine laugh or a cute girl, whatever, just be. Just in that one arena, let yourself be authentic and don't worry about what people think, because it's the most natural response that you can have and you should let it come out, even if it's a big snorting goose laugh.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A letter. Well, can I. In that. In that fucking vein. Can I tell you? Can I admit something to you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is this going to get sad?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Okay. I'm a scream sneezer. And I didn't know it. I didn't fucking know it until this weekend. In past episodes, if you're fucking. If you're new.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi. Welcome. We've talked about scream sneezers before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And I have a real problem with them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I do, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But apparently it overcame you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I do it all the time and I never realized it. And I asked Vince and he was. I'm like, am I a scream sneezer? Because he knows we've talked about it. And he was like, no, you know, like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I was Vince, the best husband in the world.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Such a sweet angel.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I wouldn't call it screaming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the same thing when I ask, do I snore? Oh, no, you. You're cute. You know, like, wouldn't. I saw a. Yes, I swear. Yeah, I. I scream sneeze.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, listen, as long as it's okay that I get mad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I don't care.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because scream sneezing legitimately scares me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Terrifying. My mom does it too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like, I had a roommate that all of a sudden it would just be like the weirdest thing in the world that you can ever be prepared for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. All right, well, maybe I just. Maybe. Maybe we now know that scream sneezers don't know that they're scream sneezing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's True. And also that they can't control it. We did get a tweet from somebody who was like, some people can't control it. And she was clearly very hurt. I'm sorry if you were hurt. I'm a person of very strong opinions, but I also go back on those opinions oftentimes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's fun to be very adamant about things that you really don't give a shit about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Honestly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, that's like by way of a podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're trying to make the time go by before we die.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Entertainment people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is what it's about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, you know what I was gonna say, which we don't do this that often when it's like an off topic thing. But I just want to say our friends Pat Walsh and Joe DeRosa have a podcast called We'll See youe in Hell that I listen to all the time and never plug or give a shout out to. And I don't know why. It's really funny. If you like two dudes that fight about, like, movies, those are the two most there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If you like people who will argue anything, even, you know, like, either side. Those dudes, I can't believe they're friends.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, it's great. It's. You watch their friendship kind of deteriorate and build back up every episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But they're both softies so that they, like, then feel bad. They're fucking hilarious, both of them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's fun because if you can either watch the movie along with them. In the beginning, they used to watch the movie and discuss it as it went, and then you could watch it along with them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, it's always like a. Like a B horror movie, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I think they. They kind of opened it up. So it's kind of like whatever movies they want now, but. But now they just kind of discuss them. But anyway, it's totally worth your time if you are into horror movies, regular movies, or just taking our recommendations.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And they're both fucking hilarious. Hilarious people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Comedy writers, people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We like them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, Comedians. Good stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They've never murdered anyone, as far as we know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just had that realization. I was listening to their podcast over the weekend and I was like, I genuinely like this. I should at least say that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's really nice of you. I think that we should recommend a friend's podcast every episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it might be good. Or just things that we actually are watching, like Poldark. Like what? Remember? So I said to Georgia, a lot of people have asked us, are we gonna talk about Amanda Knox. That Amanda Knox special, which you. You wrote about. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For Elle magazine. Yeah, online.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So if you haven't read George's column about it for Elle magazine, look that up because Georgia does her whole summation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't watch it because Georgia told me she didn't like it. And so I was like, well, if she didn't like it, I'm not gonna like it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I don't think you needed to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I know I'm not interested in that case because it's a one off. Did she? Didn't she? Pretty girl. There's all kinds of elements that I don't enjoy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, you know what the biggest element is that the victim really has nothing to do with the whole story.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I don't, like, completely forgotten.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I like her foot. Her crime scene photo with her foot sticking out of the blanket got more airtime than her face did. And it's just like. I just don't like those stories.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. You know, and probably feels unsatisfying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And I mean, even though it sucks, the JonBenet Ramsey story, at least it's called the JonBenet Ramsey. It's not called the Patsy and John Ramsey story. It's, like, about her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But this is about. It's called Amanda Knox, you know, so. Yeah, I don't like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And so Georgia wrote that I texted and said, do you want me to watch it so we can have a discussion about it? And Georgia basically said, I didn't like it, so. And then I went, well, if you didn't like it, I'm not gonna like it. And immediately tried to get out of my homework.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then I said, go ahead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, go ahead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I said, just watch a British procedural.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so I immediately downloaded season one and two of Poldark. If you like. T O L E P O L D A R K. Poldark. That's his last name. Oh, Ross Poldark. If you like bodice rippers combined with a mining. The politics of living in a mining town.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's what my. That's my favorite topic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, who wouldn't? Right there on the coast of England.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, get. That's what I majored in.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get in there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't go to college.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Someone's gonna write and be like, they're in Wales or whatever. I don't fucking know. It was one big green mountain and I loved it. I watched every episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ooh, I like that. I'm never gonna watch it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Perfect.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Congratulations.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, we're back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi, you guys. We're back. This was. I must. I think I was a couple drinks in on this one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, perhaps, but whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Better than Adderall.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would love a poll of how many podcasters aren't drunk as they do. They're always on chat shows. Great to know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Kind of necessary, I think, just for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like the chitty chattiness of it all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm not a social butterfly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well. And also, there is a reason, and I don't know what it is, and I wonder if you do that. They were saying that we were hysterical on the episode before.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. I didn't. I didn't notice. We were just excited. Maybe the moon was in a place that makes you hysterical.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hysterical. I don't know what it is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I mean, I guess.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess I'm trying to get us to talk about other people's opinions. It's not our opinion.

[Georgia Hardstark]

If they're right, they're right. I'm not gonna argue. It's from 2016.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I will say this at this time. I used to go to Georgia's house. It would be like 7:30 at night, and I would drink her leftover coffee from that morning I forgot. And I would take a cup of her old coffee sitting in the coffee pot and I'd throw it in the microwave and I'd Dr. My nighttime coffee as you drank your nighttime Bev. And we got through that episode. So could have just been an imbalance of caffeine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Or I had caffeine at night, which is always a bad idea for us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Always. Yeah. The historical significance of this episode as we first start talking about scream sneezing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And I don't think there's been a sneeze that's gone by since Sarah that I didn't think about that. And you bringing that up in this episode. So it's kind of like become embedded.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You admit you are one.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. And I didn't realize it. Also, when anyone else does it now, I'm like, shit, there's. Oh, my God, like when Vince does it sometimes, you know, which you should.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like the release of it. It's what it's kind of all about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm a screamy honor. I know that for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like maybe it's easier to not be those things if you just scream all the time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just be a scream person.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Keep that volume up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just be a screamer. We always tell you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, did you see that thing about that some girl wrote up those rules, but Allison can't find them.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, it's such a bummer because they're good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Guys, can you find them, or are you that girl? Please repost them. We want to see the rules.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Alyssa might not be into this podcast anymore, so maybe she was deleted her list of rules, but if that's not the case, anything's possible. In nine years, she found out that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We didn't vote for Trump, and she's like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, forget it. By my research is over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, well, this is a freaking heavy episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With a lot of big hitters and eyeball talk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Georgia's about to do her story, but it's back in 2016 about Charles Albright, one of the worst. The Texas eyeball killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, Karen, I want you to picture yourself going for a drive. What comes to mind?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not ever being able to merge on any freeway in Los Angeles. And potholes and crying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah. Well, the truth is, the road can feel like it's out to get you at every turn. But, Karen, it doesn't have to be this way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because Hyundai's available advanced safety technology is designed to help keep you protected from all of life's twists and turns.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Their vehicles offer available features designed to help safeguard you and your loved ones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can change lanes with confidence thanks to the available blind spot view monitor, which actually shows you a live video feed of your blind spot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The standard forward collision avoidance assist can help prevent or mitigate accidents by alerting you of imminent collision. Oh, my God. This happens to me all the time. And automatically applying the brakes if you don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is needed. Hyundai vehicles are equipped with a standard driver attention warning system, which constantly monitors your attention levels. Oh, my God. Once detected, it sounds alerts and visual cues to help bring your focus back to the road.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, get this for me right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With available class exclusive safety features, Hyundai helps to keep you safe so you can enjoy the drive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Learn more about [e-mail] or call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's H Y U N-A-I USA.com or call 562-3144603. Goodbye. A sleek professional website makes you look very put together, even when you're wearing sweatpants and eating cereal out of a mug.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's where Squarespace.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer your services and get paid all in one place.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From consultations to experiences. Showcase your services with a customizable website designed to Attract clients and grow your business.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And managing those payments is a breeze. In just a few clicks, you'll be able to accept payments with options like Klarna, Apple Pay, Afterpay and more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'll get paid on time with professional on brand invoices and online payments. Plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools and.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get discovered faster with Squarespace's built in SEO tools. With meta descriptions and auto generated sitemaps, you'll rank higher in search results globally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to squarespace.com murder for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer Code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's squarespace.com murder code murder goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. As the weather starts to get warmer and we can finally go places again, it's time to face a hard truth. Your travel wardrobe is not ready.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You can't bring bad fash on your vacation. They won't let you out of the airport.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fortunately, we all have Quints. They have high quality travel essentials at fair prices.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With Quince, you can get quality luxury essentials without a hefty price tag, like lightweight European linen styles from $30, washable silk tops and comfy lounge sets.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Quince also has premium luggage options and stylish tote bags to carry it all.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Because Quince works directly with top factories, they cut out the middleman and pass the savings on to you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

George. I don't want to brag or anything, but I just got a box of three brand new quint sweaters because I wear my 50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters that I got years ago so much that I was finally like, I need to freshen this up a little bit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quints.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to quints.com mfm for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com mfm to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Quince.com mfm Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should we murder time?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's murder it up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm excited about mine. Mine is usually three or four pages. Yeah, this one's six. I'm not gonna go. I'm not gonna take up all the time, but there's just so much information.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you want to jump right in?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Can I go first?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think I'm first this time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's very important whether or not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We know who's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Otherwise we'll just get so much hate mail. Yeah, that's not true either. All right. Karen. Yes, I mentioned it last week. Are you ready for the Texas Eyeball Killer?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh they. That's right. Yes, I am.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you, are you sure?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I really am.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I've got my protective eyewear on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. If people have. I was thinking about how a lot of people have eyeball like issues. Issues.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, they're gross.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The eyeballs are gross. And attacking eyeballs are gross.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Attacking eyeballs is fucked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like what is wrong with you?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, don't worry. I don't get too into like the gory eyeball details, but there's a couple things. And he's called the fucking Texas Eyeball Killer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he did some, some stuff that we need to really look into.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you ready for it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think I am.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Here we go. So on December 13, 1990 in Oak, in the Oak Cliff neighborhood of Dallas, Texas, the body of Mary Lou Pratt was found. She was a 33 year old well known prostitute in the area. I don't know what well known means. It's like that everyone hang out friends with her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, a sex worker, I think we're supposed to say.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, sex worker. She was last seen in mid December on a Dallas street corner trying to pick up clients. And her body was on at 4:20 in the morning on a Dallas street. Just on a street laying face up. She lent a bra T shirt on. I saw the crime scene photo. Shirt was pulled up. I mean. Yeah, it's very bad news. She'd been shot in the back of the head with a 44 caliber gun. So the medical examiner said that the killer had removed both of her eyes and taken them with him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I wish he hadn't done that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, man. Let's see here. And it was. They were removed post mortem with such precision that there was no damage to the upper or lower lid. And then it goes on to explain like the, the, the intricacies of removing an eyeball and all the like things which I won't get into. But it's like complex. It's not like black. You don't pluck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no. My mom used to work in the ophthalmology department at Kaiser. So I this not to in any way say because of that I know anything about removing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you do it all the time then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I think I've seen that poster of the, the like medical poster of the eye more than I would have liked to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Like, what connects this to that? Yeah, well, he did that all without like fucking any of that up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So clearly he has an understanding of medical.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is, it's very Jack the Rippery.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. But in 1990.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She also had blunt force injuries, but the cause of death was the gunshot one. So then in February, on February 10, 1991. So just a couple months later, in South Dallas, outside the city limits, Susan Peterson, who was also a sex worker, was found dead. So she was found dead, shot three times and twice in the head and once in her boob, breast, I think I'm supposed to. To say. And she also had her eyes removed. And. And what's weird is that he, the person closed the lids after he did it too. So they, they wasn't. They weren't found to have their eyes missing until they got their autopsies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's all intentional and it's all tricky and creepy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, what would you, what do you think your motive would be to take eyes. It's like, seriously?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, because it's not gouging out like, don't look at me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stabby stab.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. It's removal. Like I'll. As if it's evidence.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like taking them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so two months later, after Susan Peterson was found, the body of a 27 year old woman was found in the same area. Oh, wait, no, this is Susan Peterson. Sorry. She was found in at 7:45am and she worked in the same neighborhood as the. As a first woman. And she was last seen walking the streets looking for clients. Found laying face up with only a shirt on, pulled up over her breasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The same mo Same exact way to find the woman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. So then a month after the second victim was found, on March 18, 1991, Shirley Williams, who was a 42 year old woman working as a part time sex worker in Dallas, was found dead. And she was completely nude. She had facial bruises and a broken nose and had been shot in the face through the top of the head. Stephen, are you gonna vomit? You're kind of like. You're kind of. You're moving in a way that's. Eyeballs freak me out too. Do they? Do you want to go sit in the other room? No, no, I'll be okay. Okay. Let me know if you needed some air. You look. I kind of saw you weaving in the background like. Oh, no. She had superficial injuries around the eyes and face and part of an exacto knife blade was found in one of the wounds.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry. Eye wounds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, no, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she was stabbed hard enough that it broke off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What? Broke off?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I think he stabbed her and it broke off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's not good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Both eyes had been removed. So then a pair of patrol officers cut to this. After the first three women had been found, two cops remembered an incident from a few months prior. There was a woman named Veronica Rodriguez, also a sex worker. And she claimed she had been attacked. And she claimed she had been taken into the woods and raped. Then ran to a friend's house and he rescued her. So the rescuer was a guy who was a truck driver named Axton Schindler. And he said he was only giving her a ride. Didn't know anything about the attack or the injuries. Super shady and weird. But the police questioned him, and his address was 1035 Eldorado street so they wondered if the attacker was the Eyeball Killer. And they decided to re question Schindler to find out if he had seen something. He was a weirdo himself. He, like, collected trash and stuff. So they discovered that 1035 El Dorado wasn't actually his address. He'd put a fake address on the license out of paranoia. But the property belonged to someone named Fred Albright, but he was dead. So a couple months go by, they're trying to figure out who this fucking killer is, and then a deputy overhears them talking about this whole situation of Schindler and Albright. And he remembers a phone call weeks before with a woman who said that she was friends with one of the victims of the Eyeball Killer. So she had been friends with Mary Lou Pratt, the first victim. And she said that the victim had once dated a man named Charles Albright. And the reason that stuck out to her was that he had a weird obsession with eyes and kept exacto knife blades in his attic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In his what? Attic.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Atticus. I always say addict, but you mean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The room above your house attic? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know why I do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, so it's. I just want to make sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, you're addict. That's what I fucking kept it in. His addict. His friend who was an addict.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you hold these for me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hey, man, he did him and I got some real good government coke. So Charles, this fucking addict dude was the son of the guy who owned that home, okay? So Fred Albright's son. And he had inherited that location. So let's talk about Charles Albright. He was born in Amarillo, Texas, and he was adopted from an orphanage By Dell and Fred Albright. His mother was kind of loco. Loco. Can we cut that out? Who the fuck am I? Kind of crazy. Loco never said that before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We were just trying to change it up a little.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. His adaptive mom was a school teacher and she was super strict and overprotected. She overprotective. She like made him study a lot. And he ended up skipping two grades because he was so fucking smart. And she pampered him like crazy. She kept goats in the backyard so he could drink goat's milk, which she said was better for him than cow's milk. She occasionally put him in little girls dresses and gave him a doll to hold. She would change his clothes a couple times a day to keep dirt off of him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So loco.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She was loco.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was straight up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And she was afraid that he might touc dog feces and get polio. So she took him to the hospital to see the polio patients locked in huge iron lungs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What? That doesn't keep you from touching.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And dog feces isn't where you fucking get polio, bro. It's the air, like it's just the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Air, you know, that's so awful. Can you im. But this is the thing. My brain always flashes you. Can you imagine a parent today taking their child to witness something? Yeah, exactly. Don't touch the stove. Look at all these people who have been have third degree burns.

[Georgia Hardstark]

However, I think my aunt, one time, my cousin, he was little, lit the fucking kitchen on fire because he was doing that thing with matches where you flick them after you light them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Lit the whole kitchen on fire. This is in the 70s, so he was not being watched. And it was his fault for playing with matches. Not their fault for not leaving them around.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For leaving them around smoking 24 hours a day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. And I think that they took him to the burn ward to be like, this is what fucking happens when you play with matches.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And how was he after that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's fine now. He's kind of. He was kind of mean to me when he. When we were little. The kind of sadistic, the mean.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Before or after the burnward visit?

[Georgia Hardstark]

After.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So he's still working some stuff out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But he's like fine now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I think you need to trust your children better that you don't have to traumatize them to get the lesson through their. Through their head.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think you should teach them not to fucking play with fire to begin with.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I just remember when I lit the bed on fire, my mom's screams were enough to keep me from ever doing it again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's the secret.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because she looked at me like, what the hell is wrong with you? And then I was like, I just. I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you have no. You have an excuse for being like, I hate when you do something. You're like, this is something a stupid person would do. Yeah, I have no. Like, am I a stupid person?

[Karen Kilgariff]

My thing was like, can you please just pay attention to me? Like, I just. I'm really fond. Yeah, I think of great stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Get off the phone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get off the motherfucking phone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hang up. That long corded. What was it fucking Marigold or was it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, it was Marigold. I swear to God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because that's. The entire 70s was marigold.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It really was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So she would take him to the polio to look at the polio patients. And those poor polio patients are like, fuck you. Don't use me an example. I didn't touch dog shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The idea. Yeah, really. I never touched. Don't put that on me. The idea of being in an iron lung where just your head is sticking out is such a goddamn nightmare for months. Horrible.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All those poor babies. Yeah. And then she said to him, you can spend the rest of your life here. She would tell him, but she was. It's from what I read, she was very protective and loving of him in a way because she wanted him to know that she was never going to abandon him and that she loved him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, it doesn't seem like doing it wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. I don't think she was abusive, but she was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Her intentions were good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. She was overbearing and didn't really understand how to parent.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. She was letting her neuroses take priority over his well being.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it sounds like she had a lot of neuroses aside from what she did to her kid. But he. She doesn't sound like a bad person. She just wasn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was scared.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think she had a little bit of a mental illness.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, well. However, the next line says, when he was less than a year old, she put him in a dark room as punishment for chewing on her tape measure. Man, Elvis chews on my tape measure all the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no dark rooms for babies, everybody. I think we've agreed that in 2017.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what's scary when you're a kid? The dark room. You're not scared when you're adult. A dark room. Don't do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then when she, you know, it's scary. I just said it was 2017.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what's scarier is I didn't even fucking notice. Is it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, not yet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's. Let's hold this episode till 2017 so we sound normal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This one goes in the vault, like Disney style.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I keep. I keep reading more awful stuff that makes me take back everything I just said. When he wouldn't take a nap, she would tie him to the bed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was abusive.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When he wouldn't drink his milk, she would spank him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She would make him drink goat's milk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ew. Have you. I haven't never had goat's milk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I haven't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I'd like to take an aside right now and say that everyone listening. Spanking is abuse. Don't fucking spank your kids.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's why I don't have kids. And I don't. Then the problem never even comes up. Should I. Shouldn't I. Nope. I should go to the movies by myself. That's what I should do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what's great is being an aunt and getting to go away after.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then they have to take care of you when you're old. That's what I figured out recently. It's pretty, right? Oh, and then she lectured him about the way his father. The father acted greedy with sexual. Whenever.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

As a child, she told him that whenever the dad saw her in the bedroom in her bra and underwear, he tried to grab her. She was going to have none of that. And she was going to make sure that Charlie never tried anything like that with his friends, his girlfriends either. And he. As he grew older, she chauffeured them. Every time they went on a date, she would call the girl's parents, let them know that her son would not do anything untoward.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Lady.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But that was the 50s too, so I don't know. Like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So she was on pills. She was on vacuum pills.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet she had an amazing cut, an amazing figure. Like, because she just didn't eat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She wore four girdles and she was super high on speed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She ate a triangle of toast every morning with.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And tomatoes of cottage cheese.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Tomato and cottage cheese. Tomato and cottage cheese.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, okay, so.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So much about life. Yeah. So for some reason, he got his first gun as a teenager and he'd kill small animals with it. But his mom would help him stuff them. Due to his interest in becoming a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Taxidermist, this guy had no chance.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, he got super into fucking taxidermy. But his mom was super cheap and weird and wouldn't spend Any money on anything. So instead of spending the money on the glass eyes that one would buy for taxidermied birds and squirrels and shit, she was like, we don't need to do that. So instead, they would get two dark, dark buttons. And so people come over and look at their taxidermy, and it'd be this. It's like that. That movie Coraline. Coraline. So I wonder who the Eyeball Killer is right now. Are we gonna go ahead and make a guess?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, this is, like, all arrows pointing to. What's his name? Dan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Same Dan? No, it's Charles Albright.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Charles. Chuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Chuck. Danny Albright. We'll call him Chuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Danny. You never had a goddamn chance.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Poor baby. But. But it seemed like he. So all of these, like, Wikipedia articles and these other things just make him seem like a crazy, you know, like a gross drifter, like, killer. But this other article I read, it was just like he was a. He was very, very fucking intelligent. But at age 13, he was a. Who's a. Petty theft, whatever. Aggravated salt. He graduated from high school at age 15 because he was so fucking smart. And then he went to the North Texas University. He wanted to train as a medical doctor and a surgeon.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He wanted to train as a surgeon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah. And at 16, the police caught him with some stolen petty cash. He spent a year in jail at 16, and then he went back to school, majored in pre med studies, but was found with stolen items again and was expelled but not prosecuted.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he had. He had a compulsion control problem. What's that called?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Compulsion control.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Made it up. That's what it's called from now on, I think.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Impulse control.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Impulse control.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Dig it. So he got kicked out of school. So he did what everyone else would do, which is that he gave himself a fictitious bachelor's and master's degree.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He forged himself, Problem solved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, he knows everything anyway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's. I mean, it sounds like it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like. So it turns out I'm an eye doctor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. Here you go. Here's my Ford. But he had, like, done it by breaking into, like, the head of the college's office and, like, using the right typewriter and everything. So it all looked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, he was very conniving.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He got a master's in forgery.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, if you. At that point, you can do that, you deserve it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you deserve something, you know?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you so cool. I don't know. Society, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

College. I think I have a thing against college. Because I never went and I hate you. College.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, me too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But somehow he married his college girlfriend. I don't know, man. Some women just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, come on. Danger, Chuck. Danger. Yeah, get near that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's bored of all these dumb college students at Arkansas State Teachers College. She's like, yawn o'clock.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, he's dangerous. He's not grabby.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's not afraid of the dark anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He doesn't grab her when she's in her underwear and bra.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He loves buttons. No.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Great. He's got a master's and he's got.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A master's and a bachelor's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Turns out they got married, they had a kid, and he started teaching high school science. There's a photo of him in, like, a school photo. Okay, so this guy, he seems like this criminal. He's this normal, smart guy with friends that goes to church that is, like, everyone likes. No one can believe it. One of those guys. Yeah, he's not like, a gross, like, his fucking mug shots creepy. But his. He wasn't like, he had a life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. He says he had a Pied Piper like, ability to captivate people. And he. So in 1965, he and his wife separated, and because he got caught stealing again, and he served less than six months.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He loved to steal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He loved. He had a compulsion to steal, maybe just to see if he can get away with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also, like, Steven and I were talking before the show started about stealing. There's something to it, too, where you just, like, when you have that thing of, like, I need this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, you rationalize needing something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I used to steal a lot, and it was like. It was like. It was like a Fuck you. I never stole from, like, people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or did you steal from, like, cvs?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's like the teen girls.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rite of passage.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I was poor and didn't have money and, like, didn't have enough for things that, like, everyone else got to have. And I felt, like, justified.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I felt justified in, like, you, Everyone. I want this, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I will have three Wet N Wild lipsticks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That crazy pink that I then wear to raves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. That lip liner that's so long, it'll last you, like, seven years.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. And doesn't fit in any purse. The, like, Maroon one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the. The. The irony there is that Wet N Wild makeup is so cheap. Oh, yeah. That's the one that everyone I know so far.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But then you're like, well, you paid $0.03 to make this with fucking slave labor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So give me mine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Give me mine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't do drugs. Don't steal. Don't do drugs. We used to do pink. There would be a pink lipstick, but then you took frosty white eyeshadow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And put it on your lips. Well, it was while the gloss was still wet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so you had the frostiest pink lipstick of all time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Frosty pink lipstick was in 84, baby. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. Anyway, Love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sidebar, Sidebar nation. Okay. But so he. So everyone loved him. He, everyone. All the neighbors trusted him. Here's a funny thing. He was asked by local residents to babysit their children. Sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, he was, but his whole act was working. Aside from being a big stealer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry is who the fuck lets grown men babysit their. Oh, yeah, no, that's my problem.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also, this was not long ago. This wasn't like Albert Fish time. You're like, yeah, let the old.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, well this is like recent 81. Where like all of that hadn't. They didn't believe the children. Still, when you're like, my uncle touched me, they're like, shut the fuck up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How dare you? Yeah, it was all burbling to the surface.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, I think, I think towards the end of the 80s is when they were like, oh, don't leave. Leave your kid alone with a grown man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, don't. Don't accept help from a grown man who wants to help you with your kids.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he doesn't. He's not being a nice guy. He's. And also grown men, if you're not a molester, don't try to babysit kids.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Find another outlet. Ride horses. You don't need to, I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Go find someone else. Go to there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't you have a fantasy something team that you need to maintain?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Watch the dogs. Fine. Even the cats. Cats don't offer to watch the children.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just get a bunch of dogs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we've solved it. Done. Done. Look at us. Legislation corner with Karen and Georgia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So easy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's see. Oh, but then guess what? In 1981, while visiting some friends, he sexually molested their nine year old daughter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And this is when his whole facade started to crumble. He was prosecuted and pled guilty, but he. And received. I'm sorry, what did he receive for this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Probation. But he said that, he said, he said he pled guilty because he didn't want it to become a big thing. He wanted to kind of keep it a secret so no one knew about it because he but he, quote, didn't do it, but he still pled guilty to it. Whatever. Okay. At this point, he falls in love with a woman named Dixie. And then he starts. He takes a paper route in the early morning, and it turns out it's so he could visit prostitutes without raising his wife's suspicions. His new wife.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Adult paper routes are suspicious as fa.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Get a telemarketing job, bro. So. So we're back to this woman being like, yeah, my friend who died, Mary Lou Pratt, was friends with Charles, and he was into fucking eyeballs. Not fucking, but it was an eyeballs and stuff. Yeah. And there's proof that he was friends with her way before she came across the fucking sex worker. In the early 80s, Mary lived in South Dallas neighborhood while Albright's parents had invested in cheap rental property. And he was living in one of the rental homes. And he had a brief fling with one of Mary's friends and had brought them over the house for parties, so they knew each other already. And then when she started to become a sex worker, he became one of her customers. And she said that old man Albright was a good trick, willing to pay a little more than the going rate. But he's claiming from jail now. I just spoiled the whole thing. He's claiming that he didn't even visit prostitutes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, why would he admit that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So I think she was his first kind of foray into. Into sex work.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Says he would pick them up, talk to them, take them to get a hamburger, and drop them back off. That sounds like a perfect date.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Sorry. What's. What's. What's he paying for there, besides hamburgers?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. But I think eventually he started to do it. Okay, so. Beep, boop, bop. Let's see. Okay. On 3-22-91, he's arrested and charged with three counts of murder. Oh, bless you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's how you do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That was. Okay, I get it. I get it. No, I get it. How is the first time either of us have sneezed on this podcast. I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really?

[Georgia Hardstark]

38 episodes, especially a closed room full of cats.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I don't. I'm gonna be honest. I don't vacuum that couch much, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, Sorry, go ahead.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, that was an amazing speech. Let's see. So. But eventually, he was known by several sex workers. I know he was violent towards them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that was a growing thing. Like, when it started out, he was all hamburgers and cute.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then it. Basically, he got comfortable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And started to be able to do whatever he wanted to do. They said that. One said that he beat her with an extension cord or a belt to achieve orgasm. Another told a reporter that he would. Another told her that he would kill her if she tried to take advantage of him. And he. And also he was known to have an abnormal obsession with eyes. And he would remove the eyes from dolls and photographs. Man. Yeah, like. Like get another mo. Because if you have this thing in your daily life, it's like if you're the Bicycle Killer and you're obsessed with bicycles, like become the skateboard killer instead.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, change it up so the cops won't find you immediately.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah. It's like, come on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He can. It's his obsession. It's like Steven with the Britney Spears movie. He just can't stop thinking about it every moment of every day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, he's like, oops, I did it again. Thought about it. That wasn't that funny, was it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, it was to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I appreciate that, Karen. That's why we're partners.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't fake laugh at you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know you don't, and I love it. And when you laugh at me, it's always. I'm always. It's like. It's like you're scream sneezing. So I'm like, what am I surprised?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're shocked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Pleasantly shocked. Okay, so. All right, so here's. Okay, so the reason I found this whole murder is because on crack.com, my favorite late night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Read the best website, crack.com, dude, there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Was one one list called Five Suspicious Details of Famous crimes no one can Explain.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm sorry. I would read that for hours.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, make that list 500, please. And I am there, there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the. The weird thing about this case is that this. This dude from the beginning, if you'll remember. But I can't remember. Axton. Axton the truck driver. Schindler the truck driver. They were like, well, what's his connection? His driver's license had the address of the killer's father. How does that make any sense? This guy must have been part of it or known. No fucking connection at all. What, he just happened to live in a rental property that was owned by the killer? So there's no connection. He just. The guy who picked up the truck driver who picked up this woman who had been beaten up and gave her a ride home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't believe it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know, but it's true. Pretty sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like he just is clean on the deal, even though he knows the parent of the killer or the attempted killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He happened to live in a rental property that was owned by the Albrights, and he happened to use another of their addresses as his fake address. And he just happened to be there at the time to pick up one of his would be victims.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm sorry, three happened to be in one man's life. Adds up to a whole bunch of. You're full of shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Write that shit down, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just coming out of my mouth.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So the cops interrogated him for hours, thinking there had to be connection. Not a single witness had ever seen him before. And there was no physical evidence that he had even ever been at the crime scenes or knew about Albright's murderous hobby at all in general.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's a Schindler you're talking about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He seemed to have no idea what was going on. He helped a woman in need and that's all he fucking knew about.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But now. Okay, so wait, let me, let me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, aren't you a little suspicious, like of cross country truck drivers because of so many terrible forensic files?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where it's like they have murder barns all across the Midwest.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're going into a small, like if you're, you know, a sex worker, you're going to a small enclosed place that they know where things. I mean. No, yeah, I know, but he's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's innocent.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, well. Yes. Okay. All right, well, let's go back to the trial. After all, after Charles Albright gets arrested. December 13, 1991, like, doesn't this seem like an old timey crime, like from the 70s, complete. Aren't you picturing, like you said, 1990?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was genuinely shocked.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know. Aren't you thinking of like old Cadillac Sevilles and like. Yeah, it's total 91, which I guess is a long time ago for certain for 12 year olds whose moms let them listen to this podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi. So the evidence was that eight hairs that match Shirley Williams, one of the victims, was found in Albright's vacuum cleaner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, that's not good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's just a. That's kind of cool, right? Like, but who had the job of going through the vacuum? Like, did that really happen? Or they just like put some.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, you. We cannot know. But that's a. That's like a forensic job. That's what you're signing up for?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dude, there's people who are listening who might know the answer to that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's true. Maybe they've done it before.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Email us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They got a pair of tweezers, some old Revlons from CVS that they shoplifted, and they're just going through that dust bag.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they're like, kill by molecule.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's only because their boss doesn't like them that they had got that job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's the job they mouthed off at lunch.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, man, that's the job. They drank too much at the company picnic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. And called somebody a fat bastard. Oh, really? Well, you'll be picking through the vacuum cleaner. Her bag this week. Dunhill. Damn it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I did it again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we could just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That could be forever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whole forever. All right. And then three pubic hairs from a blanket at Shirley Williams murder scene were matched to Albright. They also found. Ha. Found hair on a yellow raincoat that matched his hair that was near one of the bodies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can I. Should I mention at this moment, that. About hair. Hair follicle evidence.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What I was totally thinking, too, is I think in like the first episode, I had read the news story, that they've proven that that's not a thing anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which I just find kind of hard to believe. I find maybe not as. Not as conclusive as they originally thought.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That hair evidence and fiber evidence, like if you find a purple fiber and the. On the body of a. A dead person and the person that you think is the suspect because of connections, also has a purple carpet. Like, you can't just convict them on the purple carpet. But if there's other connection.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. If it's one piece of many that are all fitting together. But. But then that's all that all speaks to. Like, when you're looking for patterns, will you see those patterns?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the other. The other part of that is, do you have a good prosecuting attorney and do you have a shitty defense attorney? You know what I mean? Yes, man. Yeah. So then three hairs from the head of Susan Peterson were found on a blanket in Albright's truck. So all three of them had hair that were connected to him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's impossible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's when you're like, okay, yeah, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So 12-18-91, the jury found him guilty, received a sentence of five years to life, but only for the murder of Shirley Williams. It's the only one he got convicted on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Five years.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Five to life. Who are we? Where are we? What's happening?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, why naturally, isn't that 15 to life?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

5.

[Georgia Hardstark]

5.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How old was he? Do you know? Like, was he old?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think he was in his 50s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, not old enough that, like. And the other thing is, everyone's like, he's gonna be in there for 15 years. And it's like, my dad is fucking 71. That's not that old anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And also, he killed people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He murdered people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He murdered innocent people who didn't deserve to die.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, he got. Well, he got fucking probie on a fucking molestation. Probie. Do people call it that? I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's local.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet you anything. I bet you that's police lingo. Probi for probation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm gonna fucking. Doesn't it sound like it should be?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, for sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Probi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Probi. We're definitely calling it that from now on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cops email us. So he's at the Clements unit of the Texas Department of Corrections in Amarillo. And he's a motherfucking piece of shit. But he's saying from prison that he. He's like. He will not admit to any of it. He's blaming fucking Schindler and saying it's him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, interesting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And I love. But there's just no actual. There's no evidence. Everything about, like, the. The woman who. Rodriguez. Who said he. She attacked him. Another woman who knew him. Everyone saw a photo lineup and picked him like it's fucking him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he grew up obsessed with eyes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he has. He was trained as a. He was like, medical student, surgeon.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, what's more of a coincidence that this dude used to live in this guy's house and put another one of his addresses down or. And that he'd killed it or killed them? Or that this fucking eyeball obsessed, fucking overbearing pet mother, overbearing crazy mom who dress him up in women's clothes. Not to say that there's anything wrong with boys dressing up in women's clothes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As long as they're doing it themselves.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You get to do it. It's all about choice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As many things are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But. But also, he's a proven, repeated, and seemingly remorseless criminal. And he is. What do they call that? It's getting worse as the years go by. Each crime gets a little worse. Then he becomes a. He's a child molester.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He seems like he feels like he's entitled.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like I did when I used to shoplift. But I'm better now. Well, but I would never shoplift you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You. Yours. Your. Your crimes never escalated.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The thought of shoplifting now horrifies me. The thought that I did that when I was. I'm not like I used to shop. It's. I'm so embarrassed about that topic. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because now, you know, the, the. I was going to say side effects.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have a moral compass.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, exactly. And it actually affects other people.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're talking about a person who's probably a sociopath or more. But the idea, I mean, I have to say, and I hate to sound this way. I don't hate to sound this way. I am this way. The idea that he removed eyes, that there was an additional thing to his straight up murders, that you would. That it's very common of these serial killers to kill sex workers and in their mind have this pseudo kind of righteous, almost religious thing about as if they're cleaning up the streets or something like that. This extra detail of taking eyes and closing eyelids is so morbidly fascinating to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what's really weird about it too, if you think about it, is that these women were killed pretty brutally. They were beat up, they were stripped of their clothes, they were raped, they were shot. Yet he carefully, systematically removed. He didn't gouge their eyes out and fucking, you know, take them and run away. He. You had to do that probably slowly and carefully and with the right tools.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it wasn't a fit of crazy rage that he just went into.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also, nobody wants to think about this, but if you just for one second think about how insanely hideous it would be to remove someone's eyes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And I mean, what did he do with them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where did he put them?

[Georgia Hardstark]

They never found them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They never found anything.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not his eyes, not their eyes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if there's like, like a rental space somewhere?

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's gotta be so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Six jars of eyes staring out at you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I always wonder, wasn't there like a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The reality show where they bid on blind lots where they would buy a rental space? Storage unit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Storage Wars.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if you. There's an episode of Storage wars, they throw up a. Throw open a door.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Eyeballs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just six eyeballs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'll pay a thousand. Can I start the bid at a thousand, please?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That was good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's an eyeball killer, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I didn't even really know much about that. Thank you. Cracked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I knew nothing. Except for when you mentioned it and immediately assumed it was like the Torso killer in Ohio. Like 30s style old fashioned murderer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Because it feels like old timey. And the other thing about this guy that is suspicious is that he was this, this child molester, this criminal, this like fucking crazy, you know, and yet he had this charming, normal life. It Wasn't like he was living, you know, off the grid and as a, like, drifter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, he had the mask on tight.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He maintained, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

People. And, you know, there's all these comments of people, the normal comments of. I. I can't believe it. Not him. No way. It's amazing. He was such a nice guy, you know? And then this family's like, he molested her daughter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shocked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. That's some fucked up shit, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was a scream sneeze of a human being is what he was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just scared Mimi so bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just screamed, laughed. I'm sorry, Mimi. Oh, my gosh. She's lost her mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She'll be all right. Mimi seems fragile.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's very.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's like, okay, please.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She was found in a dumpster.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we are back. What a horrible story. Georgia, any updates on this one?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, actually. One of the officers who worked on the Eyeball Killer case was a rookie named Regina Smith, now a retired lieutenant. She told AE True Crime that the thing that stuck with her the most about the case was getting the family's closure and finding the eyeballs. After she retired, she reached out to Albright in prison for answers, which is bold and brave.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He agreed to see her, but was in hospice and visitors were not allowed. So she did not get an answer because Charles Albright Wright died in prison in 2020 at the age of 87. Yeah. All right. How about an equally awful story? A big one, too. This is Karen's story about co ed killer Ed Kemper. Hey, Karen, I want you to picture yourself going for a drive. What comes to mind?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not ever being able to merge on any freeway in Los Angeles. And potholes. And crying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah. Well, the truth is, the road can feel like it's out to get you at every turn. But, Karen, it doesn't have to be this way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because Hyundai's available advanced safety technology is designed to help keep you protected from all of life's twists and turns.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Their vehicles offer available features designed to help safeguard you and your loved ones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can change lanes with confidence thanks to the available Blind Spot View monitor, which actually shows you a live video feed of your blind. Blind spots.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The standard forward collision avoidance assist can help prevent or mitigate accidents by alerting you of imminent collision. Oh, my God. This happens to me all the time. And automatically applying the brakes if you don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is needed. Hyundai vehicles are equipped with a standard driver Attention warning system, which constantly monitors your attention levels. Oh, my God. Once detected, it sounds alerts and visual cues to help bring your focus back to the road.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean get this for me right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With available class exclusive safety features, Hyundai helps to keep you safe so you can enjoy the drive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Learn more about [e-mail] or call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's H Y U N d a I usa.com or call 562-314-4603. Goodbye goodbye. There are probably a billion furniture options out there. We didn't count but that number feels right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So how do you find the perfect piece?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Easy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You go to Article Article believes in delightful design for every home and thanks to their online only model, they have some really delightful prices too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Article makes furniture shopping a breeze with its carefully selected styles. From mid century Modern to Boho and everything in between.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Check out their near addresser. It's beautiful and practical which is a deadly combination.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know we're hard stands of article on this podcast. Everyone knows that we're like bff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean we couldn't rave more.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it's because everything is so classy, so beautifully made, affordable and so user friendly. Like you don't have to have style to like get stylish stuff from article. They do it for you. So like there's no worry there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look at that near a dresser on their website. Just go and take a look at that one piece and you will see what we are talking about. It is as mid century as you could get.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Seriously. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of a hundred dollars or more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To claim visit article.com murder and the discount will be autom applied at checkout.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's a R t I c l-e.com murder to get $50 off your first purchase of a hundred dollars or more.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Spring is in the air. And that means open windows, outdoor plans, and more time away from home. All the things that burglars love.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, bad news burglars. Now you can protect your home with Simply Safe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With Simply Safe, millions of Americans enjoy greater security and peace of mind every time they arm their system.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Traditional security systems only take action after somebody has already broken in. That's too late.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But with active guard outdoor protection, SimpliSafe's monitoring agents closely watch your property and stop crimes before they happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The cameras use advanced AI to distinguish between friendly faces like family and neighbors and potential threats, alerting agents to suspicious individuals before they get close to your home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So I get that ping on my phone, on my app that tells me when there's someone, like, on my lawn, I'm such an old lady. Or, like, you know, walking up my driveway because I live up off the street, and you shouldn't be there if you're not meant to be there. So, like, if I get the ping that someone's on my lawn and I'm like, I know something's up and I can check it before they even get to the door or break in. In the window, it's great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Visit simplisafe.com fave to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's simplisafe.com there's no safe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like simply safe. Goodbye. All right, well, should I do mine?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I'm gonna blaze through this because here's the thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did I take too long?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no, no. I loved it. It was so good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should I do mine?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what this podcast is. I didn't mean it. First of all, mine is a heavy hitter, and I feel like a lot of people know this one. I definitely. A lot of people have written to us and requested that we do this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Guy and rain all over your parade.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Take your fucking time, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's Edmund Kemper, the co ed. Yeah, it's the man who was six foot nine. Stephen. Six foot nine. That in and of itself is scary. And intimidating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So intimidating.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry to all you super tall guys out there, but it is. And when you see video of Edmund Kemper walking with cops, is he a big guy, too?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, not just like a tall, skinny. Or is he big?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, he's not humongous. Yeah, he is proportionate. But when he walks through doorways, he has to duck. It's. He's that tall.

[Georgia Hardstark]

69 is out of control.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And to imagine that on top of that, he's a psychotic, paranoid, schizophrenic, psychopathic killer. It's so upsetting.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you think he went crazy because people kept asking him if he plays basketball? I always wonder that about tall people. How fucking sick of that they are.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're so sick of it. And also, it's like, people expect them to be good, and then when they're.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not, they get like, I don't fucking play basketball.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't even like basketball. I'm not. I love golf.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you play basketball, man?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dude, you must love basketball.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, Fuck you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, so just to briefly. Also, I don't like doing these ones because I don't like to talk about the serial killer themselves. Like they're a star. I fucking hate that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like knowing their whole life when really it's like, fudge, you, this one woman that you murdered. Life is way more important than your whole life, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and also you rendered your own life like shitty, a shitty factoid list because of the actions that you acted out in that life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you made them obvious in this fucking example of what serial killers are like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And yeah, but it's not impressive to me. It's not. And also when you see this person interviewed, to me, all I think is what a waste because he was really smart. He was a big giant that was also a genius. No one ever knew he was a genius because he had a terrible mother. Which is kind of sometimes a theme on the show. Another abusive, like obsessive, controlling, dominant mother who was impossible to please.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And yes, all dominant mothers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, so let's see, it just basically goes like this. He was born in Burbank, California. What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Are you fucking serious?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's, that's where he's down the street.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, that's crazy. I didn't know that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

His parents had a bad marriage. They divorced when Ed was nine and his mother moved him to Helena, Montana. And there he. All he wanted was a father. And instead this one article said he had a string, a subsequent string of stepfathers. But then when I looked into it, it seemed like his mother only got remarried one other time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She probably just dated then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She probably dated. And also I think the evil mother kind of recurring theme is a thing that people very easily can kind of fill in the blanks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, she got married all the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was an old bitchy slut. I mean, it's like to me, that's what kept coming out was like, well, what if she was, what if he was a 6 foot 9 monster that she had to control and didn't know what to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It bums me out that they blame it on like the mom who stayed and raised him and not the daddy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The single mom, later date. But I mean, who knows, who knows the details? I, I just feel like there's, there's always this, a little bit of that where it's like, well, okay, she was mean and domineering, but now she married a bunch of people. Like, yeah, whatever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the, and marrying a bunch of people is like, oh, you're a fucking shitty mom and a slut.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, maybe, just maybe, let's just put it out there. Maybe not, maybe not. So but he, in his like early teens, he starts to display his anti social personality. Traits. So. So him and his sister. This made me laugh. And I was watching this really good British series that you can find on YouTube. Like, any killer you want, there will be this British series that comes up, and they just give you tons of information and really good facts. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You knew you were gonna say that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No idea. I'll tell you next week. It'll be, like, a fun surprise.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like crime and evidence. British accent. And it's also not on BBC. It's not on anything I would recognize.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's almost like an independent. All the people in England right now are, like, giving me all kinds of two fingers up in the air.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For not knowing this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Oi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So but if you look up Evan Kemper, it's the first documentary series on him on YouTube.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's called Crimes and Stuff. And crimes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And crimes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And crumpets and British accents.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. So him and his sister would play a game called Gas Chamber where his sister would throw pellets into his room and then close the door, and he would pretend he was dying of asphyxiation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that sounds normal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's. It made me laugh so hard, because I was. And then it was, like, a bunch of stuff of, like. Then he would make his sister's dolls have sex. I was like, yeah, standard fare.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I did that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everybody did that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I stole my brother's GI Joes. And they were totally bone barbed. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what dolls are for.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's all like, get them in that dream house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And get to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then you just smash them together, and they're boning, and you have no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Idea what or why.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Smash.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You just know that it's exciting that they're in the same bed. They're on a little plastic bed together. Sex.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that now? Smash.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. But here's where it all was very different than most of our childhoods. He told his sister in grammar school that he had a crush on his teacher. And when he said he wanted to kiss his teacher, his sister said, why don't you? And he said, because I'd have to kill her first. So the sister's like, I'm gonna go get a glass of juice. And, like, slowly crab walks out of the room.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. And I'll be right back. I just love Andy getting on the ground and crab walking instead of just, like, backing out of the room.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, she had to go out sideways.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Crabby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With all her eyes looking at him. So breaking down his mother when he was a little Bit older, made him live in the basement because she was afraid that he would molest his sisters. So, yeah, it was dark and bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It also was believed that that mother suffered from borderline personality disorder, which explains the rages and the abuse.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, honey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's, you know, fair's fair. We're gonna say all this stuff about her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But then also, everyone sucks all around.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, and here's the thing. Untreated mental illness affects people terribly and in a ripple effect totally. That isn't just the person who isn't taking their medicine or the person who can't afford their medicine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I also see my therapy sessions every week of me going through.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. Mental health is very important.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So important.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And my mother was a psychiatric nurse. And in the 80s, when Proposition 13 closed down all the mental hospitals, that's.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The worst thing that ever happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Rant and rave every night about how terrible the future is going to be for people who needed help and wouldn't be able to get it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also see the fucking insane amount of homeless people we have in this country.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because we. They don't have easy access to fucking mental health services, and they.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They need help. And.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And basically the state has gone too bad. All right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nope, let's. I want to keep talking about back to Ed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My mother would. You know what, that would be like, her dream if.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I want to talk about this all the time, honestly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So when he was 15, his mother sent him to live with his father in la, who. And his father had a new wife and stepson. And so he lasted a month there. And then his father sent him to live with his grandparents, who were the father's parents, on a 17 acre farm in North Fork, California.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Which sounds nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It actually is. It butts up right against the Sierras, right near Yosemite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was gonna say how awful it is to send your kid away to someone, but that sounds fucking like a nice vacation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pretty nice. And also, like, if you have a kid that's troubled, put him to work, send him to a farm, get him out there, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Teach him some fucking responsibility.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, turned out that the grandmother was also domineering. Oops. And the grandfather had early stages of dementia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So there was already some drama happening.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This guy had no chance.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, yeah, he had his own 22. So he shot rabbits and gophers. And even though his grandmother told him not to. Birds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait. Rabbits and gophers are fine, but birds are off limits.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, because gophers, rabbits, yeah, they eat the. If it's a working farm, they eat the vegetables.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Bunnies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Birds do, too, though. But they're beautiful. Anyway, so that summer, he was sent back to Helena to stay with his mother. But then he came back after two weeks. So it was basically nobody wanted the giant, scary guy around. And he was only 15.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you believe it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. It's, like, so unfair, though.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's like, I feel really bad for him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's lots of rejection and lots of criticism, and, like, he already clearly had something going on mentally. And then everyone was just like, this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is the point where maybe you can intervene. But it didn't happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Quite the opposite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It said that Ed's grandmother feared him enough that she took her.45 with her anytime she left the house so that Ed wouldn't be near it. Oh, no, the.22's fine. Yeah, I'm taking that.45.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically, one day he decides he's gonna shoot his grandmother on the back of the head. And when police ask him why, he said, I wanted to see what it felt like to kill Grandma. So he's. He's flipped over into a next level.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He doesn't understand the finality of that at all. By saying, if you say that, you don't understand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, yeah, he's like, I'm testing it out to see what it's gonna feel like as opposed to being. Walk through that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I wanted her to die.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This will feel really bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And everyone's gonna feel bad. So he shot her in the back of the head. He was pretending like he was leaving the house, took, picked up the. His. 22, walked out. She saw the weird look in his eye, and then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How do you know that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He stood outside. This is according to him. He stood outside watching her from the porch, and then shot her through the screen door in the back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, at the back, then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then he waited for his grandfather to get home from the store and then shot him. Because he didn't. He didn't. He knew his grandfather would be upset and angry, so he didn't want to have to deal with that. So he just killed the grandfather too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You do not have a right. Right mind, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. Because then the next thing he did was call his mom.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And this isn't a murderous. This is someone who doesn't have access to reality.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I think this is, like, the beginnings of being a psychopath or, like, having some kind of a break, like a dissociative. Let's just throw Some. Let's make sure that terminology.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're professional psychologists.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. So. So he calls his mother, and she says, call the sheriff. So he calls the sheriff, tells them what he did, sits on the front porch and waits for the cops to come. And that's when they got that quote of, I wanted to see what it would be like to kill grandma. He also, after he shot his grandma, stabbed her several times with a knife.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Whoa.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So he wanted to kill her.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's different.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Feel that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just shot the grandpa, though. So then the police were shocked, and he was committed to a Tescadero State Hospital. It was a mental. It's kind of a famous mental hospital up Northern California. He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, but he was tested with a near genius iq.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And in the mental hospital, he learned how to mask his insanity. So he basically got along, blended in. He did. He did really well with structure. And when people were in charge of him, but not mean and judgmental of him, he worked. It worked very well for him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he learned. He became a runner for one of the doctors, like an assistant to one of the doctors. And that actually enabled him. The doctor trusted him that much, but that enabled him to read the doctor's files. So he memorized the answers to psychological tests that he saw in the files, and so he basically learned what to say to sound like a normal person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's smart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He learned it out of reading it off of tests. So he would read all the psychological tests, see what the correct answers were, and basically that way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So after four years, those doctors added Tescadero deemed Ed normal enough to re. Enter society four years after killing both his grandparents.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it was in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So he never even got tried.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's that?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He never went to trial for these murders? No. No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Straight to the mental hospital.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So in 1969, the California Youth Authority released him back into the care of his mother. Clarnell, can you imagine being like, well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My kid's back home?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I guess the murderer is home.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Even though the doctor said he can't go live with his mother. That's where they sent him. So now he was in the hospital for four years. So it was between 1965 and 1969 when the cultural Revolution took place, and it took place in basically the. The eye of the storm was San Francisco Bay Area, and that's. They lived right outside it. So sex, drugs, and rebellion were the order of the day, clearly. I was just typing what the narrator was saying on this, because I Was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Never saying that sounds really casual like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were the order of the day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were the sex drugs.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sex drugs. So Ed wanted to. Ed's reaction to that was he wanted to become a cop. He didn't like any of it. He wasn't down with the hippies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I could see that. Because he liked the order.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He liked order and he liked, liked. And he wanted to be in charge.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So maybe he was trying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The problem was he's too big to be a cop.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shut up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's actually regulation against that size of person.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you know what makes me feel safe? A six foot nine cop.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, true. But then also, six foot nine cop can basically do whatever he wants at all times. Maybe that's part of it. Fit into the car.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Any cop could do it every once, all the time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The pants would be too short and he would be a laughing talk. So instead he became a construction worker and he hung out. He lived in Santa Cruz and he hung out at a bar called the Jury Room where cops and lawyers went and often hung out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can we go there right now?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He basically, like hung among them. And they all kind of knew him as Big Ed. So after a while, from being a construction worker, I think he also worked for Caltrans, which is basically the guy on the side of the road. He saved up, moves out his mother house. Mother's house in Santa Cruz and moved to Alameda, which was 90 minutes away. They have a good flea market there in Alameda. Oh, I want to go. So when he was living by himself, he felt angry, awkward, and lonely. I don't know if those things had anything to do with each other, but that's how he. He felt in the world. So he started picking up female hitchhikers, practicing how to get them into his car, practicing what to say to them to get them into his car, practicing what to talk to them about once they were in his car. He picked up over 150 hitchhikers as practice.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then he decided he was gonna fix the passenger side door so it couldn't be opened from the inside.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't believe there were that many hitchhikers to pick up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

1969.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's all anyone was doing. That's back when it was like celebrated Jesus. So he practiced for long enough. So in the spring of 1972, he finally decided he was going to go to the next level. He picked up Marianne Pesci and Anita Luchesa, who were students at Fresno State, and they were hitchhiking to Stanford to see friends after a weekend in Berkeley, but they never made it. And this was the time, of course, when police never looked into missing persons cases, especially that of young women because of the amount of runaways and transients there were. So they're. According to cops, girls ran away all the time, and they would always show up later because they were with their boyfriend or they were with their friends. So it was almost that, like these fucking hippie kids. Like, I don't want to hear about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, we're not going to waste our time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that was the mentality. So Ed drove these two girls to an isolated spot. He made Anita get into the trunk, and then he put a bag over Marianne's head to suffocate her. She fought back. She bit a hole into the bag. And then he never thought that anybody would fight back. He became enraged and he stabbed her repeatedly. Then he got out and went into the trunk and slit Anita's throat. Oh, no. But because the fighting like that wasn't the kill that he fantasized about. So he took their body. You're gonna need to brace yourself for this part.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I'm scared.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He took their bodies back to his apartment and raped their corpses, and then he dismembered them and he put their body parts into plastic bags and left those bags all around the Bay Area.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine that? That's the first time you really, like, you killed. Killed You. You killed someone by shooting them before, but the first time and stabbing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, and it was your grandparents.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Yeah, but like raping a corpse, I mean, dismemberment, that's not an easy thing to do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, it's hideous. But, you know, he was fantasizing and they talked in this. This documentary about that. How much serial killers fantasize about what they're going to do.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then he had fantasized about it all happening in the car. But since that got fucked up, this was like this weird plan B improv that he was doing that then became his M.O.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So two months later, hikers found Marianne's head in the mountains. And that was the only evidence ever found of the two women.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shut the fuck up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was the only thing they ever found. So in September of that year, so that was spring. So like, like five months later, he picks up 15 year old hitchhiker, Aiko Ku.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Honey, don't do it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She was 15. She was, I think they said she was half Korean and half, like Romanian or something. She was a dancer. She's on her way to dance class. So she Was really small.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Honey. Don't hitchhike to dance class. Ridiculous. Ride your goddamn bike.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And you're tiny and you're 15. Like all of these things are so much. No, no. He picks her up, he drives her to an isolated location, but when he tells her this is a kidnapping, she loses her shit and becomes hysterical. So to calm her down, he says that he was going to kill himself and take her with him, but now he's changed his mind. And then he gets out to get something in the trunk and the door shuts and locks behind him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So now she's in. Inside his locked car and he's locked out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But he convinces her to open the door. But this is. This is. This is him practicing on those 150 girls. This is a person who's figured out with his genius IQ how to get what he wants.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How to manipulate people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. And how to tell them exactly what they specifically want to hear and need to hear.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God damn it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So anyway, he suffocates her until she's unconscious. He puts tape over her mouth and then holds her nose closed so he is, like, up close into this killing, you know, horribly. Then he raped her and strangled her with her own scarf. And they put her dead body in the trunk and then went to a bar for a couple of beers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who did? Did. He did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. He said they. And I wasn't sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, sorry. Then. Then he takes the body back to his apartment and it's the same thing. Dismembers and scattering her remains all over the Bay Area. So because a serial killer is a person who's killed three or more people on three or more occasions with a cooling off period in between crimes, this kill officially makes him a serial killer. So the next day he had a state mandated meeting with his psychiatrist. And her head was in his trunk.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

During that meeting. And he made such an impression on the psychiatrist that they decided he didn't need to see a psychiatrist anymore.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The day after he murdered this girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He had to be good at what he did. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So? So to make matters worse, at the same time, there was another serial killer named Herbert Mullen that was operating in the Santa Cruz area at the exact same time. And this was the guy that was killing people because he thought it was keeping that big earthquake from happening. Did you ever hear of this guy? I think he deserves his own episode. He killed hitchhikers. He shot an old man in his yard. He killed a mother and a child. Child. He. Yeah. And he was complete. Yeah. He Was no idea.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You got to do that one, please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. So that guy got arrested in 1973, and the police thought, oh, great, this is all over now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He should have just stopped killing then, and he wouldn't have ever gotten caught.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, but he couldn't do it. Four months after his third murder, he was now broke, so he moved in. Back in with his mother.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Come on back home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's gonna work out good. So this is January 8th of 1972. He and his mother argue all day. He goes out, buys a gun, and then he picks up hitchhiker Cindy Shawl. And according to him, this is the way he tells the story, that he drives her to a remote location, shows her the gun, then gets out of the car to open the trunk. And he leaves the gun in the car with her. And instead of grabbing it, she follows him back to the trunk and sits. My, what a big trunk. Do you want me to get in it? Which to me is. It's his version of the story, because he has talked and talked like they have hours and hours of his confession.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My, what a big trunk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My, what a big trunk you have, grandma. So she gets into the trunk, and he shoots her once in the head. Or he does what he did before, which is weird. Strangles her. She's in the trunk. She's got a bullet in her head. He brings the body back to his mother house. Mother's house. Has sex with the Corp, Dismembers her body in his mother's bathtub and buries her head in his mother's backyard. Throws the rest of the body into the ocean, but she's discovered 24 hours later, so most of her body parts wash back up on shore. So a month later, he has another fight with his mother, and then he goes out for a drive, and this time, he picks up two UC Santa Cruz students. Rosalind Thorpe and Alice Liu. And all of the students, all the female students, because he was now called the Co Ed Killer. And so all the students at UC Santa Cruz, where all the female students were warned, do not hitchhike. Do not take rides from strangers. But his car, it was his mother's car, so it had a UC Santa Cruz parking sticker on it. Oh, his mother worked at UC Santa Cruz, so they thought it was safe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, but it's not like that. A person who goes to your school can be a killer, too, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but they're all thinking it's like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, like a psycho killer. Well, it is, but, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He shot them it's the exact same thing. Shot them, raped their bodies, dismembered them, scattered their remains. Then he decides he's gonna buy a.44. He needs a new gun. So a routine police background check brings up his name, and the police, when they look him up, it's just an index card that says double murder. So. So they put. His records were sealed because he was a teenager, so they put a hold on the gun purchase.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, what a great idea to put a hold on gun purchases for people who have mental illnesses.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no, sorry. I'm sorry. They couldn't put a hold on it. He'd already bought it, so. But they go. They go to confiscate it. So they show up at his house, but it's Big Ed. They know Big Ed. There's no problem. It's Big Ed.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He goes to the jury room, he hangs out with us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he's a. He's a good friend of ours, so. And they assure him it's just a. It's just a formality. Thank you. A formality. But Ed got paranoid because he was like, they're onto me. And so. So he ran. So he. Well, he. Sorry, this is the. This is the big one. So he's paranoid. He's sure the cops are onto him. So on April 21, 1973, he decides he's going to kill his mother.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that's the solution to everything, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's gonna be his big finale. So his mother's sleeping, and he goes into her bedroom with a claw hammer, beats her to death with a hammer, decapitates her, has sex with her corpse.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Puts her vocal cords in the garbage disposal. I mean, like, symbolic as.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And he talked about it. And, like, I saw, like, probably 10 seconds of him talking about it. It's just. It's not. It's not anybody worth listening to. It's just like a person who thinks it's great when they're telling you great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not just like, normal, but thinks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It'S great, thinks it's cool, thinks it's like. That's pretty ironic, isn't it? You know, like, it's this kind of. There's like a swagger to it that you just wanna. So. So then he decides that it's going to look like he did it. So a way to make it not look like that is he calls up his mother's best friend, Sally Hallett, invites her over to a surprise dinner, quote, unquote. And when she gets there, he chokes her to death.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so when, when the cops find both their bodies, he's in his mind, they're gonna think it's a break in. And it has nothing to do with that. That's his thinking. And then he goes on the run. So he jumps in his car, he drives east. And they were still looking for the Co Ed killer. They in no way were looking for him. They had no idea. He drives for three days. He hears no news on the radio about himself or using his name or anything. And by the time he gets to Pueblo Colorado, he calls the Santa Cruz police and confesses because he's so mad that they're not talking about him and that he was wrong. And so the Santa Cruz police have to drive out to Pueblo Colorado to pick him up. And they said when he. Oh, the Pueblo police said when they went out, like the Santa Cruz police had the Pueblo cops go pick him up. When they went and picked him up to arrest him, he put his hands on top of the phone booth. That's how big he was.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I just can't get it. I can't deal with it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Six foot nine.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Horrifying. It is. He's just a humongous monster.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Vince is like 64 and he's very tall.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he's five inches taller. Yeah, that's insane.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Very tall. So on the whole drive back, the Santa Cruz police have to listen to his confession.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he talked. They said, there's one cop. It was like one of his first cases ever. He said he talked until I couldn't listen to it anymore. It was so upsetting. And he just wanted to talk about all of it. Gave every detail of every single thing. So basically he tries to plead insanity. The jury declares him sane and guilty of all eight murders. He's eight counts of murder. He asks when he gets goes to jail, he asks for a lobotomy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the authorities say, no, it's too dangerous. But he's basically trying to suggest, like, cut off the connections between this idea and the action or get this out of my head.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I really think a lobotomy would have helped him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it would have just rendered him like a vegetable, basically. Yeah, he would have just been a bigger pain to deal with. Like he wouldn't have been able to do anything for himself. Yeah, probably. He was once quoted in an interview, what do you think now when you see a pretty girl walking down the street? And he answered, one side of me says, wow, what an attractive chick. I'd like to talk to her, date her the other side of me says, I wonder how her head would look on a stick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Holy fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And that's actually in Bret Easton Ellis's book, American Psycho. Patrick Bateman paraphrases this quote when he's asked about women, but he attributes it to Ed Gein, but it's actually an Ed Kemper quote. And also in Silence of the Lambs, Thomas Harris wrote that Buffalo Bill started his career as a serial killer by impulsively killing his grandparents as a teenager, which was based on Ed Kemper.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Neat. Killer. It's so weird that it's, like, such close by stuff, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, close to us. Santa Cruz is, like, not far. Oh, it's so scary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Gross.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's funny that we both did serial killers this time. I know we're getting deep now. Well, I mean, yeah, we have to say one thing that made us happy this past week, but it's Monday, so it hasn't been that long.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I'm gonna have to say Poldark. When Poldark. Ross Poldark, takes off his shirt to swim in the ocean to clean off the mine dust. It's like the most beautiful thing you've ever seen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That sounds cool. I think mine was. We went last night, we went to the. The New Beverly Theater, which is like, really. It's owned now by Quentin Tarantino, but it's this really cool art house theater that's been around forever. Quentin Tarantino bought it to, like, save it, which I love him for. And they were playing the 1950s version of Dracula, and we went with Joe DeRosa's parents, who we were talking about from his podcast, and, like, met them, and they were the sweetest people ever. And it was like, just such a nice thing that someone wants you to meet their parents as an adult, which, like, doesn't really happen anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it was a cool movie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they were fun to hang out with, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they were the best. And they. And then New Beverly has Frozen Junior Mints, like, as a thing you can buy, like, because they know that. That people like them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't know that. And Frozen Junior Mints are, like, a family favorite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, they. They have them Frozen Junior Mints and Frozen Snicker Bars there. You can get. They're just like. Yeah. And they have White Castle Burgers. You can get there, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, are you serious?

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're frozen and they heat them up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But also, the New Beverly is the best popcorn of all movie theater.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Best popcorn. And it's so cheap there. Like, they. They have the movie theater candy prices from the 80s.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that true?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. We bought so much shit. And they were like. They were like $50 and this much. And I handed them 50, and they were like, no, 15, and I almost lost my mind. And so I ended up giving the guy a $5 tip because I was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just like, 10 theaters, you're like, yeah, this is going to cost me $85 fortune.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah, that's the best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. If you live in la, you should absolutely support the New Beverly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Awesome. And they have just the best. They'll have double features of, like, the coolest movies.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. April and I went there to see. Cause she's obsessed with Elvis. And we went to see Elvis's concert film that I'm not gonna be able to remember the name of. And it was so fun. And everyone there was super into it. It's like, it feels like an event when you go there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know what it's better than is going to a fucking the cemetery movie screening where you have to sit outdoors in the freezing cold on the freezing cold, like grass, and watch a movie on the. I don't need to do that. Go to. Fucking. Go to New Beverly, then go down the street to El Coyote, get great fucking margaritas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Life is good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good times.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Okay, we're back. Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Karen, do you have any updates on this old case?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, a couple. I mean, it is really old. It's one of the most famous serial killer cases as we know as anyone listen, and as we've seen since the Mindhunter era. Right now, I'm speaking to David Fincher, and David Fincher only. Listen to me. The people that care want that season three of Mindhunter. You need to take your power, Fincher, and use it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Finchy, come on, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Get your shit. Get off of Netflix and go to Hulu with that third season, please.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We need it. Need it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry. This is back to everybody else. Here's some updates. Ed Kemper has spent the last 50 years serving his life sentence. Now he's confined to a wheelchair. He has diabetes. He has coronary heart disease. He had a stroke years ago. He's been denied parole 12 times. After his last parole hearing, Santa Cruz District Attorney Jeff Roselle testified to the parole board that Ed Kemper is still dangerous. This is the quote, ed Kemper is still dangerous. He remains a high risk and quote, he is untreated. He is essentially the same man as when he went in for this end quote.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you with me?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That, like, I would have guessed he wasn't Alive anymore. That's completely wild. Also, I feel like we would have heard from him more like we heard from Charles Manson every now and again. We haven't heard anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That is the weird part. And I know the. This is the thing where if you talk about serial killers too long, you kind of go into a. You know, as if you are the scientist that knows the psychology behind this or anything. But I always thought it was really interesting because Ed Kemper went to, like, the story behind relationship with his mother and so much about that. Child abuse, very real child abuse and the relationship with his mother and all those things. And then when he went to jail, not kind of separate from the conversation of him being one of the worst serial killers there is, he went to jail. And then he started reading audiobooks for the blind. And he has apparently read over, like, 5,000 hours of audiobooks for the blind. It was a Refinery 29 article about the fact that someone discovered that he had been doing that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, like, they're out there and we don't know it's him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah. And it's essentially a program he started in jail. And the quote in that article was that it made him feel better that he was doing something constructive for other people. I don't think that's the way psychopaths think.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, no, that's confounding for sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who knows? Or maybe it was just like, this is his plan to make it look like he's doing good things to get out. I don't know. It's crazy. Here's what's really important. Cameron Britton, who was the actor that played Ed Kemper on Mindhunter so brilliantly, who was also from the town next to Petaluma Sebastopol, he was our guest on our live show in LA that had 7,000 people at it for Halloween, and he was the loveliest human being.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So wonderful.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. That was very surreal and exciting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's what we're gonna focus on at the end of that story is the actress.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Okay, so if we're renaming it today based on something we said in the episode, I think kind of locos works, but what else could we do?

[Karen Kilgariff]

There was me talking about lint traps, of course, Always. And so the phrase hint of lint was used.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Very important to remember. I feel like Scream sneezing and lint trap cleaning have been two really good lessons we've taught people. Yeah. The mansion of corners, we could call it. After we had a few different corners.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the intro correction corner and blah, blah, blah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cor of corners.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's so many corners in this house.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That it's a mansion. I get it. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I think so. And then I guess the phrase, that's on you, mommy, when we're talking about that, you need to make your kids listen. It's the parents fault.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I like, that's on you, Mommy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's on you, mommy. I mean, that was a really good episode.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's a big one. That's a good one. We're doing great. We're only. We're in our stride in episode. What is this, 39? Yeah, it's finally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Look, it took 10 months. That's our advice to you. If you're starting your podcast, give yourself 10 months to really work out some really serious kinks.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And remember that what you're saying into the microphone is going to go out into the Internet forever.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And in nine years, you're gonna have to listen to it and, like, explain yourself. So don't forget that either.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Explain your hysteria, lady. All right, well, thanks for listening. We're here every Wednesday doing these rewinds of our old episodes. So if you're starting to get into the podcast, it's a great way to do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Thank you guys for listening. We appreciate you. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one. Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Scott and the son he'd never known. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2, starting April 9 on the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.