Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 45: Funky Diva

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Podcast Information:

• Title: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
• Host/Author: Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 45: Funky Diva
• Release Date: May 14, 2025
• Original Episode Release: December 1, 2016

Overview: In "Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 45: Funky Diva," hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark revisit their classic episode titled "Funky Diva." This episode serves as both a nostalgic trip down memory lane and a deep dive into one of their early true crime discussions, enriched with new commentary, updates, and personal insights. The hosts, joined by guest Tyler Green, navigate through past experiences, significant milestones, and intricate murder cases, blending humor with poignant reflections.

---

1. Revisiting "Funky Diva"

The episode begins with Karen and Georgia reminiscing about their first encounter with Funky Diva, a clothing store on Melrose Avenue. They reflect on their youthful days, clad in vibrant fashion, and the memorable interactions they had during their time working there.

• Karen Kilgariff [00:06]: "Men, if you're ready to reclaim your edge, listen up..." (Advertisement segment skipped as per instructions)

• Karen Kilgariff [05:00]: "We would save up money throughout the year in Orange County and make a pilgrimage to Melrose."

Notable Quote:

• Georgia Hardstark [05:16]: "Little 14-year-old Georgia appears out of a puff of smoke in like an orange jacket."

---

2. Chicago Podcast Festival Experience

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Karen and Georgia's experience at the Chicago Podcast Festival. They describe the overwhelming support they received, the camaraderie with fans, and the emotional impact of the event.

• Karen Kilgariff [08:04]: "It was so crazy to walk out. I anticipated a certain amount of applause, and we got like fifteen times more than I expected."

• Georgia Hardstark [09:50]: "We stood there and thanked God, thanked you all to your face."

Notable Quote:

• Tyler Green [10:11]: "Do you know how much I fucking love, like, what do they call them when you leave a place and they give you a bag?"

---

3. Delving into the Lord Lucan Case

Karen takes the lead in recounting the infamous Lord Lucan case, a perplexing British murder mystery involving aristocracy, disappearance, and forensic intricacies. The discussion covers Lord Lucan's background, the murders, his subsequent disappearance, and the ongoing theories surrounding his fate.

• Karen Kilgariff [26:30]: "The story of this guy, he's living the life he likes the best of all things."

• Tyler Green [33:55]: "How could you? It's so obvious."

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff [33:07]: "John Bingham, during World War II, was evacuated out of London... He was the school bookie."

• Tyler Green [40:06]: "He’s on death row in an army facility in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas."

---

4. The Summerhill Road Murders

Transitioning from international intrigue to a domestic horror case, the hosts explore the Summerhill Road murders in Fayetteville, North Carolina. This segment details the brutal killing of a mother and her three children, the ensuing investigation, and the controversial conviction of Tim Hennis.

• Tyler Green [70:41]: "So, Steven, check in. How are you, Stephen?" (Guest Jonathan Pitts responds)

• Karen Kilgariff [72:32]: "Two doors down from the bedroom they find Kara, the three-year-old. She's stabbed to death as well."

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff [80:00]: "But double jeopardy is prohibited by the Fifth Amendment."

• Tyler Green [85:27]: "The criminal justice system began widely acknowledging that some rapists use condoms."

---

5. Updates and Theories

The hosts provide updates on both the Lord Lucan case and the Summerhill Road murders. They discuss advancements in forensic science, DNA evidence's role in re-examining cold cases, and the persistent mysteries that continue to baffle investigators and enthusiasts alike.

• Allison Agosti [62:15]: "So, if his body was never found, he was still alive, you know?"

• Karen Kilgariff [100:26]: "This theory falls apart."

Notable Quote:

• Tyler Green [83:57]: "I just don't buy it. This is why I think that double jeopardy in the age of DNA and retesting should be rethought."

---

6. Personal Anecdotes and Reflections

Towards the end of the episode, Karen, Georgia, and Tyler share personal stories, favorite moments, and light-hearted banter. They express their love for their listeners, discuss their favorite aspects of the podcast, and ponder over the evolution of true crime storytelling.

• Karen Kilgariff [105:11]: "I went and saw the movie Delicatessen with Allison Agasti. It's a total art house film."

• Tyler Green [105:35]: "My year-old nephew is there, and he's the best fucking thing I've ever seen in my life."

Notable Quote:

• Karen Kilgariff [106:07]: "We don't know what the fuck we're talking about. Ours are all just feelings."

---

7. Conclusion and Call to Action

The episode wraps up with the hosts encouraging listeners to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. They maintain their signature humor and camaraderie, leaving listeners with a mix of thoughtful reflections and light-hearted farewells.

• Tyler Green [105:50]: "Yeah, please. I mean, we're not just doing fucking lip service. Please actually do that."

• Karen Kilgariff [106:15]: "Sport Clips app that shows you the shortest wait and the haircut tracker that tracks your real-time... game changer."

---

Key Takeaways:

• Nostalgia Meets Current Insights: The episode effectively blends reminiscing about past experiences with in-depth discussions on complex true crime cases, offering both historical context and contemporary viewpoints.

• Forensic Evolution: Highlighting the advancements in forensic science, especially DNA analysis, the hosts underscore the importance of evolving investigative techniques in solving cold cases.

• Human Element: Beyond just recounting crimes, the hosts delve into the emotional and psychological aspects, providing a more comprehensive understanding of the victims and perpetrators.

Final Thoughts: "Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 45: Funky Diva" is a testament to the enduring appeal of the "My Favorite Murder" podcast. It not only revisits cherished memories but also reinforces the hosts' commitment to unraveling and discussing perplexing true crime stories with empathy, humor, and relentless curiosity.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

My savior.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

[Allison Agosti]

It is Wednesday, and that means it's time to take you back to the not so distant past where things were shaping up to be the nightmare that it is now.

[Tyler Green]

That's right.

[Steven Ray Morris]

But keeping it positive. This is the show where we recap our old episodes with all new commentary, updates and insights.

[Allison Agosti]

That's right. And today we are going to recap episode 45, which we named Funky Diva.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God. That makes me so happy that this.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Little shop I worked in on Melrose at 18 is the name of an episode so classic.

[Allison Agosti]

So this episode came out on December 1st, 2016.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Let's listen to the intro of episode 45.

[Tyler Green]

You go first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Welcome to my favorite Murder, the podcast that asked the question, what? Huh? Who put this on?

[Tyler Green]

Huh?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is not appropriate.

[Tyler Green]

No.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What murder? How dare you?

[Tyler Green]

What is wrong with you girls?

[Karen Kilgariff]

How dare you like this?

[Tyler Green]

My sensibilities are offended.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm offended in my sensibility area. I'm offended in the face. I'm offended religiously in my mouth. Morally. In the mouth, ear, nose and throat.

[Tyler Green]

Virtually. Ear, nose and throat. In the eyes, veins, spinal fluid, heart. Not the spine. Just the spinal fluid, spleen. This is. So this is the anatomy podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. We can name over 10 things in your body. Congratulations to us.

[Tyler Green]

Yay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's Georgia, that's Karen, and we're here to talk to you about all of our favorite things we like the most, which is true crime.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Welcome. If you don't like it, later days.

[Tyler Green]

The wrong pcast for you, bro. I saw that from Vince. I don't want to take credit for that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is the wrong pcast pie for you, friend.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, get another pee cast. It's funny that. Isn't it funny, Karen? If you reflect I was peeing today as you do. And I was reflecting as I do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As you're forced to.

[Tyler Green]

Right. And I was thinking about how funny it is that this like thing that I've been. We've been obsessed with and secretly in love with and certain, like is our kind of going to be our career.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's pretty nice to think that little Karen was right about at least one thing. It's a pretty good feeling. Yeah. Because she fucked up a ton of stuff.

[Tyler Green]

I just keep accidentally falling into like, not fucking up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. You know, that's nice.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it? You mean in later life?

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like we got our fucked up stuff out of the way early.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which is kind of, I think, what you're supposed to do.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. We're lucky because like 20. Well, by 25 I was like, I'm good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yeah. By 27 I was like, well, I didn't die, so I'm gonna stop doing all those things now.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. There's no going down from being rehab at 14.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I still love that. I like to think of you in a big pair of orange Junco jeans. Just being like, hey, do you have a clove? Or whatever. Just like so different. Ooh, sorry.

[Tyler Green]

That's little 14 year old Georgia and she appears out of a puff of smoke in like an orange ginkgo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it jncos?

[Tyler Green]

I thought it was. I don't know. I'm sure it's different everywhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm too old to really. No, it's not my reference.

[Tyler Green]

Thank God I never wore those. I did wear vinyl pants to raves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you? Weren't they hot?

[Tyler Green]

Huh?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tight.

[Tyler Green]

Never washed them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Gross.

[Tyler Green]

I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was there some benefit to not washing them? Like were they easier to put on next?

[Tyler Green]

I just don't know how one would wash vinyl or leather pants.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh yeah. You just have to throw them away.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Start over.

[Tyler Green]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where do you get vinyl pants?

[Tyler Green]

There is this. You remember when Melrose Avenue was like the fucking coolest place in the world?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I do actually.

[Tyler Green]

That was like our. We would save up money throughout the year in Orange county and make a pilgrimage to fucking Melrose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

And my first job when I moved to LA like at 6, at 17, was like on Melrose at like one of those clothing stores. What's up, Funky Diva? Literally it's called Funky Diva.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Diva. I'm, I'm positive I shopped at Funky Diva that you came in tons of tons of chokers.

[Tyler Green]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wouldn't that be amazing if right now we could see security camera footage of me and you having some kind of rude exchange at Funky Diva? Why does it have to be rude? Because I'm rude. That's all I was doing back then was rudeness. Rudeness, rudeness. Friends, foes, didn't matter.

[Tyler Green]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was a lot of arched eyebrows and a lot of. Anyway, I'm sorry. Sorry.

[Tyler Green]

I'm sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What I'm enjoying these days is people on Twitter trying to show that they mean I'm sorry the way you say it. They're trying to do it in the writing. So sometimes it's all caps. I'm. And then. Sorry. Sometimes it's reversed. Like, how do you actually put that into.

[Tyler Green]

I would do all caps, I'm. But the. Some girl. Did you see that on Instagram? I put up a photo of some girl who wrote, like, there was like, a musical bar and it had the like. And it was like, how one would play it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You could sing it.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. And she had the, like. She must have been a musician. I wish I could, but. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's genius.

[Tyler Green]

Sorry. Do you ever, like. Do you get, like, self conscious about the things you say here that become a thing like that, where you're like. I would say that anyways. But now it sounds like I'm pandering.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Now. Well, now it sounds like you're trying to make some kind of an infographic for.

[Tyler Green]

Totally. Here's your favorite. Like, someone at the live show. Text afterwards, like, not texted, but, like, put on, like, I was really hoping you'd call someone. A sweet baby angel. I'm like, Well, I didn't call anyone that because I don't want to sound like guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, you don't. Yeah. It's not like you're.

[Tyler Green]

That's your tagline.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Catchphrase, tag, catch, line, phrase. You're not gonna tag anybody with that phrase. My problem is I cannot believe. I cannot believe that I still say literally so much. It is literally the worst habit of all time. I say it when I'm, like, kind of trying to explain something to you, and I'm really, like, really trying to convey something. I'll say literally, like, seven times. It's awful.

[Tyler Green]

I haven't noticed it. I don't pay attention to anyone but myself, so I wouldn't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Good plan. Good plan.

[Tyler Green]

You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess. Same here.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. Nobody cares.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Nobody gives a shit.

[Tyler Green]

No one gives a shit about you but yourselves and your cats.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's nice to be we, by the way, we had such an incredible time in Chicago. We. I mean, it was nutso. We. I'm speaking for both of us now. I am speaking for the world.

[Tyler Green]

I had a horrible.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Georgia did not enjoy herself. We. The. Karen. It was so crazy to walk out. As I explained to my sister and you and our whole. All of our people. Afterwards, I said I anticipated a certain amount of applause, and we got, like, 15 times more than what I anticipated.

[Tyler Green]

How I've seen so many, like, couple of friends have texted me, and I've seen a couple tweets and things like that. They got so emotional when they heard the applause of us come.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like, yeah, people keep saying that.

[Tyler Green]

What a bunch of nice people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Tyler Green]

Thank you for clapping.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. And, like, it just is neat. It's so neat. It's really neat.

[Tyler Green]

I think we're a little overwhelmed at.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How neat it is, at how neat everything is.

[Tyler Green]

And we're trying to process it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

And we're just happy. It's so flattering. And we're happy. And we want to thank each and every one of you, which I think we did after the show. We stood there and thanked God, thanked.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You all to your face.

[Tyler Green]

I hugged so many people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And thank the Lord nobody was weird.

[Tyler Green]

Nobody, nobody, nobody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was really waiting for, like, somebody with some scissors up their sleeve or something. And everybody did great.

[Tyler Green]

My mom sat to the side in a chair with a beer and just watched. It was like an hour and a half.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was so long.

[Tyler Green]

And she watched the entire thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So did my sister and Adrienne and Audrey. After a little while, Audrey came over and just started taking pictures of us, taking pictures with people because she was so excited. Everybody was thrilled about it. But we did want to thank Tyler Green and Jonathan Pitts are the two people who put the Chicago Podcast Festival together. And they made it happen for us and for everybody who is there. And we want to thank them so much because they did an amazing job.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. It was so smooth and easy and great. And there was soda in the green room. And there was a green room candy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. We had a whole. We had a bag of treats.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's awesome.

[Tyler Green]

Do you know how much I fucking love, like, what do they call them when you leave a place and they give you a bag?

[Karen Kilgariff]

An exit bag, whatever.

[Tyler Green]

I fucking like. I don't know. It sounded right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, like a swag bag.

[Allison Agosti]

Swag bag.

[Tyler Green]

I will go to a fucking party just for the swag bag.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Tyler Green]

Even if I could buy it myself, I will fucking go like, you know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Buy the shit a little present.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, I just want to like, not. Yeah, like presents.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We also want to thank the staff of the. I never pronounce it right, but the Antheneum Theater, which is the 105-year-old theater where we did our show, where all those people were. And that's staff had to wait until we said hi to every single person practically. And so thank you guys so much for your patience and for being there for us. And I actually, I have a business card of the. The man who really arranged that lobby situation. And I meant to bring it to say his name specifically.

[Tyler Green]

The dude who stood there and took every photograph. He, like, would. He was like, hand me your camera. They were so great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They were so nice. And the whole experience was just like, pretty. I didn't really look at you that much because I didn't want to have, like. We weren't having that much personal experience.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I didn't want to like either burst into tears.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, you can't look at me a lot in like emotional settings. I feel like. No, you don't want to get emotional.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I. I need to shut down in very specific ways and I can't, you know me, I can't open it back up or it'll be tears, tears, tears.

[Tyler Green]

Okay, I guess. Yeah. We're so. We're so different.

[Allison Agosti]

We're like opposite.

[Tyler Green]

Like the opposite. So we're doing the Riot L A Show on Saturday, January 21st.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because that's the one at the Orpheum, right?

[Tyler Green]

I think so, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it's another big old fashioned theater. Yeah. Please help fill it out so we don't feel stupid.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, we don't want to feel stupid in our own city.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God.

[Tyler Green]

Like around people that we know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. And we keep talking about, like, oh, in Chicago they did this and that. Pat our back. Pat our back. And then we go to LA and it's like four people. Yeah, it's like your manager. My agent wouldn't go.

[Tyler Green]

Who else would be there just judging us in the crowd? No one makes a giant Elvis fucking cut out face like they did in Chicago.

[Allison Agosti]

Oh, I forgot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So a girl made.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God. I'm gonna call her out because she was amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She took a picture of Elvis, she blew it up. So it was bigger than a human head, like twice the size of a human head. And then she had it in front of her face. So when the lights came up and we were talking to people to get the hometown murder at the end. Yeah, I saw this Thing that I thought a girl dressed up like a furry, like, dressed up like Elvis. It scared the shit out of me. I was genuinely scared of her. But she. It turned out she was just holding it in front of her face. Like, look, Elvis is here.

[Tyler Green]

You can find the photos on. On Instagram. Where my favorite murder. Instagram. Her name's Alex Graves. And what a fucking angel baby. Like, thank you so much. Like, that was so fucking cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was super cool.

[Tyler Green]

And I have photos of us with it. And I have this photo from my hotel room of me having it in front of my face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It really does look like when you hold it up, it just looks like you're now a huge Siamese cat.

[Tyler Green]

It's creepy, but in the best way, because I'm obsessed with this cat.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Like, he's sitting next to me right now. And I also have Siamese pajama pants on right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, you're in. You're living the life.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, I'm in deep.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're. You're living that life.

[Tyler Green]

I have a parasite in my brain that just controls me. And it's. And it's cat. It's from cats probably, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Tyler Green]

That's real sad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you gonna bring that cat head to New York so then you. So Elvis can be there too?

[Tyler Green]

It doesn't. It didn't fit in my bag. I have to tell you something, and I feel really shitty about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's super huge. Did you have to leave stuff behind? Okay, I don't care.

[Tyler Green]

Okay, I know, but. I know you don't, but I feel really bad, so, like. But it's kind of cute. Okay. So we took a photo of it in the hotel. Then we were packing to leave and tonight. And then I was like, it doesn't fit. What do we do? And he was like, put it behind the couch in the hotel room. So I slipped it behind the couch at the fucking Godfrey Hotel. In one of the rooms behind the couch is a fucking Elvis, and it has this girl's info on it. Like, not info info, but like, you know, Instagram and shit on it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Someone's going to fucking find that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's hilarious. You know what's interesting? I had brought a dress with me to Chicago that I bought in a panic at target for $20. Didn't try it on. I was like, this is going to be a look address. I'm doing it. Fine. Grabbed it. No, it wasn't black, actually. It was, like, green and maroon and black, but it was kind of stripy. And there was a Lot going on. When I got to Chicago and tried it on, it turned out it was empure waist. Oh, God, no way. Which makes me look. Cause I have big boobs. So it made me look like I was in my third trimester. My sister's like, take it off.

[Tyler Green]

Anorexic girls are the only people look good in them. And you shouldn't be anorexic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. So no one?

[Tyler Green]

Nobody.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's why I went shopping and told that whole story, if you want to hear. It's not a good story, but it's on the part.

[Tyler Green]

And we both wore black dresses. Are we going to just. Are we doing that from now on?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Those are our show uniforms.

[Tyler Green]

Like the same dress or just black? Any kind of black outfit? I think.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think we should keep it, like any kind.

[Tyler Green]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't you?

[Tyler Green]

Yes. Except that means I have to go shopping because I literally own like three black things because I dress like a fucking schoolgirl, Grandma.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, then you have 10 days.

[Tyler Green]

You have 10 days to love shopping.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Shopping is amazing.

[Tyler Green]

I love it. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I left that dress in our hotel room with a note that said, you can have this if you want it.

[Tyler Green]

She just returned it. Oh, no. I'm taxed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Target.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. I return shit all the time to Target.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I ripped. Any time I buy something, I rip all the tags off of me.

[Tyler Green]

You do. See, I have. I'm claustrophobic and can't go in a changing room, so I just bring everything home and then return it all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think I don't go in a changing room because I don't want to see my back in one of those mirror.

[Tyler Green]

I saw mine recently. My butt. Like, it had the mirror behind me. Like my mirror stops it. Like my. It's like my waist up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Which is like the great area.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sure.

[Tyler Green]

I look so hot from, like behind in the waist up with your.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With the back of your brow and everything.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. It's like, oh, well now. Because I've got that, like, fat pinch. Because I refuse to believe I'm bigger.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Than everyone has that. That's human.

[Tyler Green]

I don't need to see my fucking butt right then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When you're in one of those high tension dressing rooms.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, yeah.

[Tyler Green]

I just want to pretend that that's not true.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just like to think that there was a housekeeping. Housekeeping lady who was just like, oh, my God, I can't dress. And I wrote on the note, never been worn. I hope she believed me. Anyhow, thanks, Chicago. We really love you.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, Chicago, do We have any other Housekeeping?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Housekeeping. Oh, my only thing is I had started watching a show called. Did you start. Called the Killing Season?

[Tyler Green]

No, but I need. I need to watch it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Yesterday.

[Tyler Green]

I haven't been hearing enough about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. I think we'll be the engine for that.

[Tyler Green]

I think so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because I started watching it yesterday. I had heard a little bit. And so it's a series about the Long Island Serial Killer. And I'd started that book so long ago, I remember, and said I was gonna do an episode about it.

[Tyler Green]

And this is one of, like, the murder that I heard about beforehand is so fucking crazy and insane. The girl who went to privately dance for that dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Tyler Green]

Who, like, something happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. The thing that, like, kicked it off.

[Tyler Green]

Amazing. Like, it should be solvable based on that murder. I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this series is by the people that two people. Joshua Zieman and Rachel Mills. And they're the two people who did the documentary Cropsy that we recommended to everybody. That's super upsetting. Well, this is an A and E series.

[Tyler Green]

A and E's amazing. I love Cropsey because it's not corny. Like, there's so many documentaries that are, like, corny.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Tyler Green]

Cropsey is not.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no. It's just straight up scary. Well, this. It's called the Killing Season. It's on Annie.

[Tyler Green]

It's not an ad, by the way, in the middle. Like, we're not talking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, this is real talking.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now we have to say something.

[Tyler Green]

Real talking corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I started watching it yesterday, and I ended up laying on my couch and watching six episodes straight through. And by the time I got to the sixth episode, I needed to leave my house and be around human beings that I knew I would be safe.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like that. It was very upsetting. And I don't have that normally. I don't get that. And I really did. Like, I went to the movies with Allison Agasti, and then I told her. She started it today and texted me today and was like, I cannot stop watching the killer movie.

[Tyler Green]

Maybe I shouldn't watch it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I don't think this is.

[Tyler Green]

Gonna wanna watch it with me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's really heavy. But the thing is that it starts with the Long Island Serial Killer and then it just expands, like, to other shit. Just Keeps going. Yeah. Because there's all these things connect. You have to see it.

[Tyler Green]

I'm fucking watching the shit out of that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Highly recommend. If you haven't seen it.

[Tyler Green]

I did the same thing yesterday, literally, with Search Party.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yes.

[Tyler Green]

And now I'm. I, like, I was like, I'm gonna watch. I watched five minutes of the first episode and I was like, I'm gonna save this for Vince. Cause it's really good and it's gonna. And then I'm in episode like six now because I couldn't fucking. I couldn't stop. Like, I did my nails because I wanted to sit in front of the tv, and I can't sit in front of the TV without doing something right. So I'm like, my nails are nice. My fucking laundry was folded out here, which I never. Like, it was just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I folded laundry, too.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you gotta do something. I watched one episode of Search Party and then I had to leave my house. I had to be somewhere. And I knew if I started the.

[Tyler Green]

Second one, I would not leave every character. John early is that. He is so fucking perfect. There's four main characters, and they're just the perfect exact people of who they're supposed to be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

And you know them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you get the feeling, too, where. When I saw the first episode, I got jealous that that's their like, oh, you're making this show already. Like, I want this show.

[Tyler Green]

I do, too. I was thinking that about you writing that, and I'm like, how stoked would you be if this was the show you were working on?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

I want, like, a fucking. Can I be someone's sister's friend's brother? No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, you can't.

[Tyler Green]

I want, like, a walk on role, and I want you to write it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's okay. Yeah, we'll come to them with a bunch of big ideas.

[Tyler Green]

So good. It's so good. Watch Search Party. Like, it's so good. And I think it's all on demand, too, so you can binge the shit out of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you can. I think it feels like everything's that.

[Tyler Green]

It just. It feels like I would do what she's doing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Tyler Green]

What's her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aaliyah Leah Shakwat.

[Tyler Green]

Shakwa. She is so cute.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I bet you I didn't pronounce that right.

[Tyler Green]

Aliyah. It's so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Maybe from Arrested Development.

[Tyler Green]

She's the darlingest person I've ever seen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's such a good actress, too.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. Oh, my God, I'm so happy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's like TV Corner.

[Tyler Green]

TV Corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think that's all I have. Do we do murders? Oh, Steven, do you need. Do you need a Steven, check in.

[Tyler Green]

Steven, check in. How are you, Stephen?

[Jonathan Pitts]

My sister had a great time in Chicago.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yay.

[Jonathan Pitts]

Oh, nice And I did hang out with the cats.

[Tyler Green]

Thank you. When I go out of town, Steven takes over the Elvis and Mimi Instagram, and it's like, I kind of need to pay you extra for, like that because they're. It's so good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Pitts]

I was just thinking where I was during the show, and I'm just like, sitting here petting Elvis, as it should be. Yeah, no, it's perfect. But my sister, she met a really nice Murderino and her mom, who's also Murderino, and they got a picture with her and everything, which is really sweet.

[Tyler Green]

I love it.

[Jonathan Pitts]

I think her name was Lee or Lee or Leah or something like that. But nice. Very sweet.

[Tyler Green]

That's so great.

[Jonathan Pitts]

And my sister, like, I was telling you, I was like, my sister needs to listen to my favorite murderer because she was obsessed with Helter Skelter. I got her Devil in the White City when she moved to Chicago. So it was just like, this is. This needs to happen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's got all the materials. She has no excuses.

[Tyler Green]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's got to get into it.

[Tyler Green]

No. And we gave you. We called her sister. Ray Morris gave you a shout out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Jonathan Pitts]

That was very sweet.

[Tyler Green]

Someone needs to get a giant Steven Ray Morris cut out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Tyler Green]

That's the next one. Oh, my God. No, that sounds like. I would never want to see my face like that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it needs to be three times the same size as the last.

[Tyler Green]

She need to basically not be able to bring it in because they're like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You can't someone make a Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade balloon of Stephen? That would be perfect.

[Tyler Green]

If you don't mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It would not be that big of a deal.

[Tyler Green]

Leave it behind a what? The couch?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Leave it in the basement of a. The holiday end.

[Tyler Green]

You just told everyone where we're staying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, we're not staying in a holiday.

[Tyler Green]

I know. Not that we're gonna. Okay, here we. Nobody gives a shit. We're not. They know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, we're not.

[Tyler Green]

We're not. And we told you that. We never did from the beginning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We said it before, and we're gonna say it again.

[Tyler Green]

We're not like, you guys know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please, we want you to know. You have to know that.

[Tyler Green]

That we know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. We know when we're not.

[Tyler Green]

Three hours later, they're still doing that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, here's me typing an email. You guys start the podcast. No, fuck you. We've gotta improv some more.

[Tyler Green]

Stop pissing Karen off. Elvis is leaving. He's like these.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You pissed me off. Then you Piss Elvis off, then it's over. Mimi's fine, though.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, yeah. Then this people gave us, like, Elvis and Mimi toys, and they're like, they look like Elvis. Oh, God, I'm gonna lose my mind. Everyone's the best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We got nice presents.

[Tyler Green]

All right. I love. They're so good and nice on these people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know it.

[Tyler Green]

I think. Oh, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm sorry. Here's the last one. The girl who, as she walked up, my sister and Adrienne and Audrey, like, cried laughing when I told the story. The girl who walked up, like, hey, you guys. Kind of all young and like, she was doing weird things with her shoulders, so she was all kind of goofy. And then when she got in to take the picture, she goes, you guys, oh, my God, my dad killed his business partner and got away with it. Bye.

[Allison Agosti]

Stay sexy.

[Tyler Green]

She was just like this cute, like, kind of sorority ish chick. Yeah. How are you guys? Yeah, she did put her on, like, you know when you're, like, talking to someone as the photos getting taken.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like phony, like straight faced or.

[Tyler Green]

So excited about. My dad killed his business partner and he got away with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye. We were like, I've never been that starstruck in my.

[Tyler Green]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

I was like, email. I wanted to give her my personal email account to just be like, email us now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I said, say hi to your dad for me. It was. It was hilariously funny.

[Tyler Green]

Gorgeous.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was a beautiful.

[Tyler Green]

If you admit to other people's crimes to us in person, we'll mention you on the podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We will listen and we will shout.

[Tyler Green]

It out, and we will be subpoenaed in the trial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. No lying, please. All right. Should we start?

[Tyler Green]

I guess.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think now the homework part comes.

[Tyler Green]

No, I like my murder. Are you. This is what I wanted to do, but I think you're first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think I am.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Allison Agosti]

And we're back.

[Tyler Green]

We're here.

[Steven Ray Morris]

It's so funny that we're talking about the listener, Alex. She's still a listener. She's still a friend. And I totally forgot about that Elvis.

[Allison Agosti]

Head that you left in the hotel room. It was so funny. It was gigantic.

[Steven Ray Morris]

It was enormous.

[Tyler Green]

It was so awesome.

[Steven Ray Morris]

I wish I had, like, let her keep it because I couldn't have carried.

[Tyler Green]

That onto the plane.

[Steven Ray Morris]

I mean.

[Allison Agosti]

I mean, it was double the size of an overhead bin.

[Tyler Green]

I think it was so great, though, wasn't it?

[Allison Agosti]

Yeah, it was great.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was like three people could have.

[Allison Agosti]

Stood behind that Elvis head. It was amazing and very realistic.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Steven Ray Morris]

And then finding out that we were a buzzfeed quiz that was like really early on.

[Allison Agosti]

Yes, it was very surreal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And at first it was like, oh, well, that's people that like our podcast like that quiz.

[Allison Agosti]

And then it just lived on. It just went on and on.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, it's just so wild.

[Steven Ray Morris]

When I was listening to this episode, I'm like, it feels like it took so, like it took longer for us to like hit that peak. But it was so fast. How were we gonna wrap our heads around that? We didn't. We couldn't.

[Allison Agosti]

Well, and also.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Cause it was like we would have.

[Allison Agosti]

Been able to wrap our heads around it, I think, if we stopped for three months.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it was like going.

[Allison Agosti]

And then just the work. I think the weird part was the amount of work just kept adding and adding and adding and adding.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it was like we didn't have.

[Allison Agosti]

Time to think, to process, to talk about it. It was literally just every time I saw you, you were holding your phone up to show me a new shocking piece of information about what was going on. It was just always surreal.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Well, we kept going and we kept showing up at my apartment and doing new stories. Steven kept showing up recording them. We appreciate that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank God he did.

[Allison Agosti]

So nice.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Okay, so this is a classic. Your story that I had never heard before, but still think about. Let's get into Karen's story about Lord Lucan. Spring is in. The air. Outside smells like fresh flowers and warm sunshine.

[Allison Agosti]

So don't let your cat's litter box ruin your inside time.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Pretty Litter keeps the air fresh inside and out.

[Allison Agosti]

Pretty Litter is the high performance cat litter that controls odors, absorbs moisture and changes color to help detect potential health issues in your cat.

[Steven Ray Morris]

And Pretty Litter is ultra absorbent, lightweight, low dust and one six pound bag lasts up to a month.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Month.

[Allison Agosti]

It's the cat litter that gives you peace of mind. Their crystals will change color to indicate early signs of illness in your cat, such as urinary tract infections and kidney issues.

[Steven Ray Morris]

And the best part, Pretty Litter ships free right to your door so you'll never run out. Pretty Litter works great. Everyone knows that. I love it. I have three cats and it definitely gets rid of the odor. But I also have an elderly cat and kidney issues are such a big part of cats aging. And so it's like this incredible life saving bonus that you can detect any urinary problems with the litter. That's incredible. Why would you not use Pretty Litter?

[Allison Agosti]

So true. Pretty Litter helps keep your house smelling fresh and clean. Try and you'll love it.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Go to pretty litter.com mfm to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy.

[Allison Agosti]

That's prettylitter.com mfm to save 20 percent on your first order and get a FREE cat toy.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Pretty litter.com mfm terms and conditions apply.

[Allison Agosti]

C site for details.

[Tyler Green]

Goodbye.

[Allison Agosti]

You know, Georgia, they always tell you to touch grass to spend time in nature.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But what if I told you that.

[Allison Agosti]

Nature can be boxed up and delivered right to your door?

[Steven Ray Morris]

Well, now you can, thanks to Fast Growing Trees.

[Allison Agosti]

Did you know Fast Growing Trees is the biggest online nursery in the US with thousands of different plants and over 2 million happy customers new to plants or gardening? No problem. The website has everything you need. Plus each plant comes with clear care instructions.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Plus get support from their trained plant experts. Experts who are on call to help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants and learn how to care for them.

[Allison Agosti]

God, I need to learn how to care for plants.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would love to get this service.

[Allison Agosti]

And just have somebody like teaching me as I have like a beautiful tree or plant in my house, like actually do this today. This is how you don't kill it.

[Steven Ray Morris]

When do I water it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Steven Ray Morris]

What season do I trim it? I don't know. And I don't want to ask my mom because then I get a lecture.

[Allison Agosti]

This spring they have the best deals for your yard, up to half off on select plants and other deals.

[Steven Ray Morris]

And listeners to our show get 15% off their first purchase when using the code MFM at checkout.

[Allison Agosti]

That's an additional 15% off at fastgrowingtrees.com using the code MFM at checkout.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Fastgrowingtrees.com code MFM now is the perfect time to plant.

[Allison Agosti]

Use MFM to save today. Offers valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Hey, Karen, I want you to picture.

[Tyler Green]

Yourself going for a drive. What comes to mind?

[Allison Agosti]

Not ever being able to merge on any freeway in Los Angeles. And potholes and crying.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, yeah. Well, the truth is, the road can.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Feel like it's out to get you at every turn. But Karen, it doesn't have to be this way.

[Allison Agosti]

Because Hyundai's available advanced safety technology is designed to help keep you protected from all of life's twists and turns.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Their vehicles offer available features designed to help safeguard you and your loved ones.

[Allison Agosti]

You can change lanes with confidence thanks to the available Blind Spot View monitor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which actually shows you a live video.

[Allison Agosti]

Feed of your blind spot.

[Tyler Green]

The standard forward collision avoidance assist can.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Help prevent or mitigate accidents by alerting you of imminent collision. Oh, my God.

[Tyler Green]

This happens to me all the time.

[Steven Ray Morris]

And automatically applying the brakes if you don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is needed.

[Allison Agosti]

Hyundai vehicles are equipped with the standard driver attention warning system, which constantly monitors your attention levels. Oh, my God. Once detected, it sounds alerts and visual cues to help bring your focus back to the road.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Oh, my God.

[Allison Agosti]

I mean, get this for me right now.

[Steven Ray Morris]

With available class exclusive safety features, Hyundai.

[Tyler Green]

Helps to keep you safe so you.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Can enjoy the drive.

[Allison Agosti]

Learn more about [e-mail] or call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Steven Ray Morris]

That's H Y U N d a I usa.com or call 562-314-4603.

[Tyler Green]

Goodbye. Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So I have because of watching the Killing season and how heavy it is and how it feels like everyone in the world is a serial killer by the time you're halfway through with it. Which in some ways is a fun feeling.

[Tyler Green]

It's fun, isn't it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like it.

[Tyler Green]

And yet you're still alive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We made it, everybody. So I switched over as a palate cleanser. I started watching the Crown, which is a wonderful Netflix series.

[Tyler Green]

British procedural. It sounds British. Is it British?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the story of Queen Elizabeth.

[Tyler Green]

I figured, God, I'm so smart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The newest one. Yeah. So in a way it is kind of a British procedural.

[Tyler Green]

Wait, it's the newest show about the cr.

[Karen Kilgariff]

About like how she got became the Queen and what her life was like privately.

[Tyler Green]

She's like a badass.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's a total badass. There's parts in it. I want the Crown TV show to come out with their own book on how to be politely assertive because that's her. And also I want them to come out with the color of lipstick that she's wearing because it's this perfect shade of pinkish red that would actually look good. I can't wear red because my teeth are as yellow is little corn nib.

[Tyler Green]

You're very fair.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm very fair with red in my skin. So red lipstick on me makes me look like I have been smoking crack in the alley.

[Tyler Green]

I look like a fucking. What do they call them? A rockabilly. And it's obnoxious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Well, this is like this muted brownish pink lipstick.

[Tyler Green]

I bet it's. I bet they make it for her and there's not even a thing you can fucking buy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, I bet they.

[Tyler Green]

Well, we have a fucking lip gloss that was made for us too that that girl sent us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Tyler Green]

Remember? So the Queen. I'm sorry, it's not the fuck it's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I want the Queen because we've started doing coke before.

[Tyler Green]

Back to being 14.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So as. So I blended into this very British kind of fancy, regal area.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. Like controlled.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. And aristocratic. Which is. I mean, like, if I was in that time, I would be like, truly the dishwasher in the bottom part of the basement. Like, do you need a candlestick? I wouldn't, but with an Irish accent, which for some reason I can't do right now. So I decided that my murder is going to be that of the infamous story of Lord Lucan. Have you ever heard of him?

[Tyler Green]

I don't think so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, this one's pretty good because. Involves British aristocracy and a disappearance.

[Tyler Green]

Ooh, you know, I love disappearances.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, so here's the story of this guy. He was born John Bingham. And he was born on December 18, 1934 to an aristocratic family in Marylebone, which is the funniest name for. It's a neighborhood, I guess, in London.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, you're going to get. I don't care what you say next, you're going to get a correction about, like, what it pronunciation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's air in London. It's actually in Wales.

[Tyler Green]

It's not a neighborhood. It's a fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fucking in New York Square and.

[Tyler Green]

It'S downtown in New York. Bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, this whole I'm. I once again, am flying in the face of. Of logic and just trying to be British. Once again.

[Tyler Green]

Aim for the fucking nose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Aim for the stars. Aim for that button nose. So John Bingham, during World War II, when he was a boy, he was evacuated out of London, out of Marylebone. They're gonna be like. It's pronounced Milibin.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was evacuated to Wales and then to Canada, and he got to live with his rich, like, friends of family.

[Tyler Green]

That sounds nice.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Relatives. Yeah. Who are like, crazy rich. But then when he came back to England when the war was over, he. He was sent to Eton College. Now, I was thinking about this in my head, but I didn't. Look, look it up. I think over there, Eton is like a boarding school. That's like grammar and high school. It's not necessarily a college. Like, we think of college.

[Tyler Green]

They had, like, finishing school, right? Where like you pass your.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Again where you put a book on your head.

[Tyler Green]

Save it. If you want to fucking email, text us that, tweet us that we're wrong finish.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like someone named England. Tell us what eat college is.

[Tyler Green]

No, no, I don't care. I do care. No, don't Tell me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I think it's like a finishing school.

[Tyler Green]

No, I'm gonna keep saying that till you agree with me this time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You said it like you'd been thinking about it, and now you've decided it's a finishing school. I think it's like high school. And perhaps like a boarding school. Yeah, okay. Exactly. Anyhow, finally we agree. So when he was there, he supplemented his pocket money with. He was a bookie. Oh. And so that's cool, right? Yeah, I think it's very cool.

[Tyler Green]

I do, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He had a secret bank account.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he made money as a kid. As a kid?

[Tyler Green]

My grandfather was a bookie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For real?

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. Barber. The barbershop front barber.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Quote, quote, unquote.

[Tyler Green]

Nice. Anyway, sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this kid, he would leave the school grounds, go to horse races, take bets, and he was like, the school bookie.

[Tyler Green]

Badass. That's so cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love it. Well, the bad part, the uncool part, is that he turned out to be a terrible compulsive gambler later on.

[Tyler Green]

Take that back.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But when he was a kid. That's cute.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he got the nickname Lucky Lucan after winning £26,000 at the card game chemin de feur in le Tour. The 2K.

[Tyler Green]

None of that's real.

[Karen Kilgariff]

None of it is meaningful to me in any way. But he won a game, a bunch of pounds, and so that's what made him think, I am lucky and I should be doing this all the time. So when he got out of school, he was in the army for a little bit, and then he started a job as a merchant banker. But he had very expensive tastes because he was still an aristocrat. His parents were very, very. What do you call that? I was gonna say staunch, but that's from Gray Gardens. It's. They didn't spend a lot of money. They were, like, religious and. What's the word?

[Tyler Green]

When you try to. I'm like, making a gesture on my chest.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Like frugal. Frugal, Frugal.

[Tyler Green]

There we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This gesture worked for me.

[Tyler Green]

How long did that fucking take? If this podcast is two hours long, it's because we're trying to remember words. Neither of us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who could enjoy this?

[Allison Agosti]

I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's madness.

[Tyler Green]

Even Steven is like, can you get.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Your fucking shit together? Okay. So he had a very expensive taste because he was still an aristocrat at the end of the day. And he was raised, you know, by rich people and North America. So he had taste for the best Russian vodka. He liked to Race power boats. And from this lift of Wikipedia. Donate to Wikipedia, by the way, if only just $3.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, can you donate to Wikipedia?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Is that a thing that they're.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, they're actually having like. They're kind of like public television right now.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they're trying to get people to give them money because they just. They need to stick around.

[Tyler Green]

I have so many questions. I mean, I love Wikipedia, but I won't ask them right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you click on there right now, the thing will come up to say, please give us $3.

[Tyler Green]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then we'll do it.

[Tyler Green]

That's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I mean, it seems fair for all the shit they give me.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God, the hours I spent when I had the desk job looking at unsolved murders and serial killers and love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So anyway, this guy, basically, he's living the life he likes the best of all things. I was just gonna say at the end of this sentence, they. He had the best tastes. He loved the best. You know, he raced boats. He. He loved Russian vodka and smart cars, which I think in. In England probably means smart, like cool cars, but here means tiny toy looking cars that are the stupidest looking cars you could drive.

[Tyler Green]

I just time traveled too, because those didn't exist.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Tyler Green]

Like, how cool would that be if.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You were just like, they're like, he invented the smart car.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. Anyway, he was also very charismatic. He was 6 foot 2 with a quote from Wikipedia, a luxuriant mustache like Steven. And he was once considered to play the role of James Bond.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he's. That. You see a picture of him on Wikipedia. He's pretty cute. Yeah, yeah, he. He's very British, aristocratic looking, kind of like, don't piss me off, pointy nose. I won't. It's high class. You know what I mean? Pointy nose and kind of like, he looks like he'd be like, very good.

[Tyler Green]

Hey, man. My husband is the spitting image of Prince William. So what am I gonna.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's exactly right. Really?

[Tyler Green]

I'm into British dudes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, no complaints. Also, at one point, he was ranked among the top 10, the world's top 10 backgammon players. So there you have it.

[Tyler Green]

That's kind of cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Badass.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Talk about sex.

[Tyler Green]

I mean, I don't know what backgammon is exactly, but I bet it's hard.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's. You know what it is? It's like chess for drunk people is what it is.

[Tyler Green]

All right, it still sounds like I don't think I like chess for drunk people, to me is like, bingo. Connect Four is chess.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Tyler Green]

For drunk people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Bingo. Okay. So he meets his wife, Veronica Duncan, at a golf club function, and they get married on November 20, 1963. And when they get married, so Lord Lucan's finances, when he was a young man and he was gambling so much, it got a little iffy in there because he was just, like, going for it. And like, I'm in a boat race, I have to have an Aston Martin, you know? He was, like, living the life and spending all that money. So when he marries Veronica Duncan, his father gives him what was called a marriage settlement. So he gets a big chunk of money to buy a house, to prepare for having kids. Like, this whole. So he's basically kind of like, up in the. In the black again.

[Tyler Green]

Sexist. Got it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Two months after he gets married, I called him Old Man Lucan. Old Man Lucan dies of a stroke. And so John Bingham inherits £250,000 and his father's titles, which are Earl of Lucan, Baron Lucan of Castlebar Bar, Baron Lucan of Melcombe Lucan, and Baronet Bingham of Castleborough.

[Tyler Green]

I don't know what any of this means.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's meaningless.

[Tyler Green]

So cue the mean emails. It's not meaningless.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's super meaningless. Don't shoot foxes, right, everybody. Okay, so the problem is that he has a very serious gambling problem. So at first it was hot and cute and he's James Bond. And after a while, it's like, put the fucking backgammon down. What are you doing? And he's spending. Still spending money, like an aristocrat. So he's like, you know, he's got a open account at Savile Row Taylor's. You know what I mean? People are making bespoke clothing for him. Bespoke? Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Look at you, Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. I want to be rich really bad.

[Tyler Green]

Do you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Really bad.

[Tyler Green]

Really?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Not just rich, though. I want to be. I want to be like Lord Lucan. I want to be an aristocrat.

[Tyler Green]

What would you do? What would you like?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I guess I would just drink and smoke cigarettes all day.

[Tyler Green]

Because you can. You can just do it at that point because.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, you can. You can kind of. Yeah, you can just kind of. Well, it's the same thing you can do if you were basically a bum.

[Tyler Green]

Remember that intervention where the woman had, like, inherited so much money that she was like, why should I not be an alcoholic? And then she. They were gonna take her to a rehab that was like a 14 hour, like a 5 hour flight. But she insisted on getting a limo because she wanted to bring her cats with her. So she put her cats in the limo. Oh, my God. It was the mess.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit. She took a cat road trip.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, she, like, put cat boxes in the limo. Like, she's me. If I just.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Just had a.

[Tyler Green]

She was going for it and, like, no one could say anything to her because, like, she wasn't gonna lose anything because she was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did it work? Did she get sober?

[Tyler Green]

I don't know if there's. Maybe there's. Hopefully there's a follow up. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, man, it's been.

[Tyler Green]

I haven't. I stopped watching that because it's real depressing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It turns out she ate all those cats. She got really drunk and then she got hungry and she ate those cats. Oh, it's.

[Tyler Green]

Poor baby. I mean. Sorry. No right field.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Loving it.

[Tyler Green]

Left field.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a downside to being an addict. I think we all know this. We've tried to tell you over and over.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. So he and his wife have three kids, George and Camilla, and a third one that for some reason isn't on this list.

[Tyler Green]

And some other, you know, the youngest kid never matters. Am I wrong?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Seriously, I'm living that life.

[Tyler Green]

That's why we're murder podcasts.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. That's why we're doing what we do. So, Veronica. Cause she also has three kids in this very short amount of time. Of course. So she's struggling with postnatal depression.

[Tyler Green]

Honey.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And Lord Lucan takes her for treatment at a psychiatric clinic. She refused to be admitted, but she did agree to home visits from a psychiatrist and taking a course of antidepressants. So she's trying to take care of it, but she won't, like, you know, really go take a full break or whatever. She's like, I can handle this. Well, then that combined with the pressures of maintaining their finances and his. I mean, he. I read this thing. I. I didn't include it, but there was a thing of, like, how he would spend his days. Oh, my God, it's so hilarious because he would, like, get up and eat breakfast and then go to his gaming club and just gamble. All he did was gamble. Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

And, you know, he was probably drinking too, of course.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then he would come home and. And get dressed and then put on, like, his tuxedo to go home.

[Tyler Green]

Wreaking of cigarettes, probably.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yeah. And you can't wash that off after a while. And then he just went out to drink and eat and smoke and gamble more that was just. That's all he did all the time.

[Tyler Green]

I would have. That's not postnatal depression. That's fucking depression.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that she had because she was like, what the fuck?

[Tyler Green]

This is not what I fucking. So went to finishing school for.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Basically, in the two weeks after a very strained family Christmas in 1972, Lord Lucan moved out. And then they get into this bitter custody battle and the justice awards custody to Veronica.

[Tyler Green]

Divorce didn't happen back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it wasn't good. And I'm sure for aristocrats. Can you.

[Tyler Green]

You could push him off the couch. Elvis is ripping up Karen's notes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My precious writing. Okay. So she is awarded custody of the three kids. And that's all he wanted. And so she.

[Tyler Green]

Why would he want just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, no, no, no. He really, I'm sure, really loved his children and it was very important to him. But also, I think it was part of this thing that he didn't think she was a fit mother. Knowing that she had postnatal depression. I think he was partly worried and then also partly he was an addict and needed to control things. Maybe, I don't know, there's something going on. He gets awarded like every other weekend visit and he gets really obsessive about it. So he starts spying on her to prove she's an unfit mother. He's recording their phone conversations. He becomes fixated on her and what's happening. He also, his drinking gets really bad and his gambling, he goes crazy with the gambling and all of his friends are like he's in a downward spiral. And then all of a sudden, the week of November 7th in 1974, he seems to suddenly be. Pull it together. And there's a couple firsthand stories of people who had dinner with him and they tried to talk to him about what's going on with the kids and he changes the topic to politics. And so they're like, oh, maybe he's rounded the corner. Maybe he's out of his system. So on the evening of November 7, 1974, he had a bunch of plans with people that he just didn't show up. And that night the children's nanny, Sandra Rivet, puts the younger children to bed. And at about 8:55, she asks Veronica if she'd like a cup of tea. And so she heads downstairs to the basement kitchen. Said there, that's a fucking sweet ass mansion. Yeah, I'll go down to the maid's kitchen. I'm not gonna use your nice high class kitchen to make tea. So she goes downstairs to the Basement kitchen to make Veronica some tea. And as she enters the room, she is bludgeoned to death with a lead pipe. A piece of bandaged lead pipe. And her killer places her body in a canvas mail sack. So meanwhile upstairs, Lady Lucan wonders what's delaying the nanny. So she walks down the first floor stairs to see what's happened. And she calls from the top part of the stairs. She calls down to Rivet to see what's going on. And the guy comes up and attacks her with the lead pipe as well.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And she starts screaming for her life. The attacker tells her to shut up. And that's when Lady Lucan knows. She tells the cops later that she knows it's her husband.

[Tyler Green]

So she survives. This guy's got like a mask on or something.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think the lights were out, like it was dark. So she's kind of calling down. She doesn't know what's going on. And then this guy comes in and she thinks she's just getting attacked. And then she realizes it's her husband, according to her. So they get into this fight. She bites his fingers. He throws her face down in the carpet. And she manages to turn around and squeeze his testicles.

[Tyler Green]

Good girl.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Releasing Steven. Steven just really felt that. Causing him to release his grip on her throat and give up the fight. She asks where Rivet is, and Lucan was at first evasive, then eventually admits that he just killed her. So what they believe is that he thinks he thought it was Veronica walking into the basement kitchen. He was trying to kill his wife, and he accidentally killed the nanny. So this is according to Lady Lucan. So Lady Lucan is terrified. She tells him she'll help him escape if he would just. Well, she's trying to get. So she says, I'll help you escape. You just have to stay here for a couple days and hide out and allow my injuries to heal. Cause she's been hit with the lead pipe and everything.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So Lucan, she walks upstairs. Oh, I'm sorry. Lord Lucan, the oldest daughter wakes up. So he goes to put her to bed. And then the wife, Veronica, goes into the bedroom, lays down, she's bleeding. And he puts down towels for her. And like, don't get the bedding stained with blood.

[Tyler Green]

Weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So he asks her, does she have any barbiturates? He goes into the bathroom to get a towel and supposedly clean her face. And that's when Lady Lucan realizes that he won't be able to hear her if he's in the bathroom. And so she runs out of the house.

[Tyler Green]

With her kids still there, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but I think she knew that he didn't want that it was about her and that the attack was about her. Cause she also did report earlier that he had once hit her with a cane and once tried to push her down the stairs. So he had gotten physical with her before, but he. I think she trusted that he wasn't gonna harm their children.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's what it seemed like. So she runs out of the house and she runs to a nearby public house called the Plumber's Arms.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, one more in England. Let's go get a drink there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have to go to a pub called the Plumber's Arms. So what, like big hairy arms? Hairy, but like with a tattoo.

[Tyler Green]

What kind of bulldog tattoo?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, a bulldog would be good.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Or an anchor, of course. Of course, an anchor. Or maybe just Queen Elizabeth's face.

[Tyler Green]

I mean, she's a mad ass.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everybody loves her.

[Tyler Green]

Everyone loves.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, okay. So the police, they call the police. The police go to the house. But meanwhile, Lord Lucan has called his own mother and tells her of a terrible catastrophe that's happened at his wife's home. He tells his mother, you have to come here and get the children. Then he drives a borrowed car to his friend's house in Uckfield, East Sussex. And then hours later, he leaves that property, leaves the car there, and he's never seen again and has never seen since?

[Tyler Green]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Swear to God, no. So that car was found.

[Tyler Green]

He's the one missing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, he's the one missing. He disappeared. He disappeared. So, no, this is.

[Tyler Green]

I was not expecting that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, James Bond is out and about, dude. The car was found abandoned in New Haven. And the interior was stained with blood. And the trunk had a piece boot, for those of our friends in England, had a piece of bandaged lead pipe similar to the one found at the crime scene. So there's one that a nanny was killed with that was left at the crime scene, and there's another one that's in this borrowed car.

[Tyler Green]

And we don't know why was all the blood in the car, and we don't know what that led.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was covered in blood.

[Tyler Green]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And I don't know if there were two. There's no explanations, just I'm not sure.

[Tyler Green]

Holy shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So. But then also he left a letter to the owner of the car that said, my dear Michael. So he basically borrows this car from this guy, he's like, hey, can I borrow your car for a while? And then just gets blood all in it abandons it and he's crazy. And he says, my dear Michael, I have had a traumatic night of unbelievable coincidence. However, I won't bore you with anything or involve you, except to say that when you come across my children, which I hope you will, please tell them that you knew me and that all I cared about was them. The fact that a crooked solicitor and a rotten psychiatrist destroyed me between them will be of no importance to the children. I gave Bill Shand Kidd, which is his brother in law. I gave Bill Shand Kidd an account of what actually happened. But judging by my last effort in court, no one yet alone, a 67 year old judge would believe, and I no longer care, except that my children should be protected. Yours ever, John. So he's basically saying whatever happened at the house was some weird coincidence that he happened upon. His excuse is that. And I think there was a. It was in a different letter that he walked into the house and his wife was being attacked by an intruder. Which the wife is like, no, I'll tell you exactly how it happened. Like step by step.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then also you can trace it all back to the car and the blood and everything else.

[Tyler Green]

Point the fucking way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they put out a warrant for his arrest a couple days later. And in his absence, the inquest into Rivet's death named him as her murderer. Which was the last time ever that Britain's coroner's court was ever allowed to do that. So they were basically like, this guy did it.

[Tyler Green]

Oh. Which you can't do a trial. Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So a thorough search of New Haven Downs was judged impossible. I don't know if that's what's New Haven Downs.

[Tyler Green]

What's a thorough search?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's anything in this fucking world? I pictured New Haven Downs to be just full of a bunch of brambles.

[Tyler Green]

Charming as fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like the moors, but brambly.

[Tyler Green]

Brambles everywhere.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Brambles and scones. Or scones.

[Tyler Green]

Scones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A partial search was made using tracker dogs. Although all that was found were the skeletal remains of a judge who had disappeared years earlier.

[Tyler Green]

I'm sorry, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Yes. So they, when they do search New Haven Downs, this impossible to search area, they find unrelated. Unrelated, clearly they find skeletal remains of a judge. All right, maybe, maybe. How about once a year you search.

[Tyler Green]

New Haven Downs, get some fucking puppies out there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, but they love doing it.

[Tyler Green]

Give them a run around.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's fun for them.

[Tyler Green]

Find a judge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Police diverge, search the harbor. So basically they went everywhere and tried to find this guy.

[Tyler Green]

This guy's More important than a fucking judge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. Clearly he's a way bigger deal. He is among the top 10 backgammon players in the world. You have to find him.

[Tyler Green]

Must find him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They don't find. So basically they can't find anything. They used infrared photography. I don't see where.

[Tyler Green]

Smart cars.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Smartphones. So a warrant for Lukin's arrest to answer charges of murdering Sandra Rivet and attempting to murder his wife was issued on Tuesday, November 12, 1974. And descriptions of his appearance were issued to Interpol. So it could be internacio now and of course, all across the uk. So apparently it's since that time been a great British pastime to theorize where Lord Lucan is. And people love saying they saw him places. So the reports have been coming in pretty consistently year after year saying, I saw Lord Lucan Harry there. And so some of the places they have reported him seeing him was as a hippie dropout in Goa, which I don't know. I don't know where that is. Doubt where he was known. They said he was known there as Jungle Barry, as you do. The best nickname of all time.

[Tyler Green]

Is it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They said he was backpacking on Mount Etna. Someone said they saw him working on a sheep station in the Australian outback.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. Those all sound like things people who run away from life would do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. To get as far away as possible.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. They're like trying to not have an identity anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Which would make sense. But John Aspinall, who was the owner of the Claremont Gaming Club, which is the place he used to go, like around lunchtime every single day, said told the News, I find it difficult to imagine him in Brazil or Haiti as a fugitive. I don't think he has the capacity to adapt, which is kind of rough. There was also a rumor Aspinall owned a private zoo. And so there was a rumor that he was cut up and fed to the tigers at that zoo. And he, Aspinall, when told that rumor, responded, my tigers are only fed the choicest cuts. Do you really think they're going to eat stringy old Lucky?

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the most plausible theory is that he drowned himself in the channel. That's what most people think, but here, this is just an interesting. Another coincidental thing 13 years later. So when they had that nanny, Sandra Rivet was their nanny, but they had had a nanny right before her and her name was Christabel. I can't find her last name.

[Tyler Green]

Bell.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Christabel Bell. You don't see it, but her name is Christabel. Something or other. And turns out she was married to an economist named Nicholas boyce. And on October 10, 1985, Nicholas Boyce was sent to prison for dismembering his wife and dumping her pieces of her body around London. So it was her, the nanny one before this one that got cut up also was murdered by her fancy husband.

[Tyler Green]

So fancy husbands are just fucking running amok.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They went nutso crazy.

[Tyler Green]

Sure.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which I thought was. Oh, and also they convicted him of manslaughter, but not murder, and he was sentenced to six years in jail.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, that's no big deal. Manslaughter.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No big. Just kill her and throw her arms and legs around the city and then. Yeah, so cannot. That's the story. Oh, sorry. It was Christabel, 32, was a former governess of the children of Lord Lucan, who vanished without a trace after another nanny was battered to death at his home.

[Tyler Green]

Do you think he did it? What, killed Lucan or whatever the fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Killed the second nanny.

[Tyler Green]

The first nanny?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, hell yes.

[Tyler Green]

Wait, both nannies?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no, no. The second one got killed by her husband.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, okay.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Later.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, that was later on. Thirteen years later, the second nanny gets killed in what is a coincidence but is super creepy because. What the fuck is going on?

[Tyler Green]

I thought it was the first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, yeah, no, but the first. I'm sure the way everything adds up, it's just basically, where did he go after? Did he immediately kill himself or did he actually go.

[Tyler Green]

He's DB Cooper.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Did he shave that. That luxuriant mustache off and go live somewhere for a while?

[Tyler Green]

You could go anywhere you want back then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also with all his money. Oh, fine and charming and, you know, dapper. He probably went to, like, Monte Carlo or something.

[Tyler Green]

That's what I was thinking, too. How old is he now? How old would he be? Is he dead?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's dead now. He was proclaimed to be dead.

[Tyler Green]

I don't know. But, like, how old would he be?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like in his. The article that I said where they proclaimed him dead, I think they said he would have been 81 or 82.

[Tyler Green]

That's livable. Especially if you're living the fucking backgammon high life in fucking Monte Carlo.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Backgammon doesn't take that much out of of you.

[Tyler Green]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And if you're just pickled with gin, you can live for a really long time.

[Tyler Green]

Bet you he's still alive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it'd be pretty cool.

[Tyler Green]

We should make a rule that people have to confess stuff on their death. Like on their deathbed. They have to confess things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Like you're not. Yeah, that'd be nice, wouldn't it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Just to solve a couple mysteries.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. Like don't take shit to your grave.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

You're being a selfish dick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's my good times.

[Tyler Green]

That was amazing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

High class murder mystery from England.

[Tyler Green]

Never heard that one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please let us know all the mistakes from that one as soon as you can. Or don't.

[Tyler Green]

Or go, go. You know, every time you get mad at this podcast, go give $3 to Wikipedia.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're gonna solve all of Wikipedia's problems. They're gonna be like, thank you.

[Tyler Green]

We got an influx of thousands and thousands of dollars.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So much money.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Okay. And we're back from your story. I still can't believe they just found a judge.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven Ray Morris]

The skeletal remains of a judge.

[Tyler Green]

But okay, I mean, wild.

[Allison Agosti]

There are some updates for this story.

[Tyler Green]

Okay.

[Allison Agosti]

Not on Lord Lucan, but Sandra Rivet had a son who she gave up for adoption when he was a baby. So Neil Berryman didn't learn of his biological mother until she was an adult, but he did know that her death was one of the biggest murder mysteries of all time. He believes Lord Lucan was the murderer and that he escaped to Africa. So he's continued to search for him. Spent years working with former BBC investigative journalist Glenn Campbell. Not to be mistaken for the singer. You can see that investigative journey on a BBC series from 2024 called Lucan.

[Tyler Green]

Wow.

[Allison Agosti]

Yeah, So I feel like if his.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Body was never found, he was still alive, you know?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Steven Ray Morris]

I just don't buy it.

[Allison Agosti]

Also when people have money to run, like they can do.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Allison Agosti]

And get away. Especially back then when there was no like Internet, no nothing.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Yeah. There was no like CCTV footage and like facial recognition software. You're just fucking gone.

[Allison Agosti]

And that guy, like he grows a pencil thin mustache or he maybe already had one, but he grows a different kind of mustache and then just goes into the mountains like in France somewhere and he's gone forever.

[Tyler Green]

Like, do you think it's better to.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Disappear into like a crowded, anonymous city or a smaller, like woodsy town city? Yeah. Right.

[Allison Agosti]

I think like you get yourself a little walk up apartment in the Lower east side of New York.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Allison Agosti]

And you dye your hair some weird color. Nobody, nobody will ever find you.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Yeah. Because if you're in a small town, you know everyone. Everyone knows everyone. Some stranger coming into town is immediately suspicious just because. Why would you move into this small town by yourself?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Allison Agosti]

Immediately people are talking about you. If you're at the grocery store, all of A sudden.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Yeah.

[Allison Agosti]

They're like, who is this interloper?

[Steven Ray Morris]

Unless. What's that little, like, weird shanty town in, like, Joshua tree?

[Allison Agosti]

Oh, 29 palms.

[Tyler Green]

No, that's the army base.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't. I don't know what you mean.

[Tyler Green]

Don't move to an army base.

[Steven Ray Morris]

There's like a weird.

[Allison Agosti]

It's like, they'll totally be onto you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In that army base for sure.

[Steven Ray Morris]

It's like a 29 Palm, Salton Sea type of, like, town, shanty town, where, like, it's off of the grid.

[Allison Agosti]

Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And people go there to get away.

[Tyler Green]

That's what.

[Steven Ray Morris]

It's Slab City.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I've heard of that.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Steven Ray Morris]

It's, like, really, like, graffiti. Then you can kind of live off the grid and live in your RV or, you know, your home that you made for your tent or your car.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is that where you'd go for your escape? Where would you go to escape forever?

[Steven Ray Morris]

Well, I'm not telling anyone, but if.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You really wanted to find second choice.

[Steven Ray Morris]

I guess, Slab today, you know, maybe. Yeah, maybe somewhere in Europe just to have something new and exciting because, like, just be like, I'm going to Baltimore.

[Tyler Green]

It's like, I would be like, I.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Want to go home now. Not that I don't want to be in Baltimore, but it's, like, not different enough to be super exciting that you're on the run.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Allison Agosti]

It wouldn't feel, like, hidden enough. I feel like I could definitely go to Pittsburgh. I would blend in perfectly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Love the vibe there.

[Steven Ray Morris]

All right, so I'll be in Baltimore, you'll be in Pittsburgh, and we'll call.

[Allison Agosti]

Each other on the phone and talk.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like this to each other. I don't know what this accent is.

[Allison Agosti]

But this is the one I'm going to use.

[Tyler Green]

It works.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It works. It works.

[Allison Agosti]

Thanks.

[Steven Ray Morris]

How about we, all of us listening, meet at the Plumber's Arms in London.

[Tyler Green]

Which is still open.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Still open.

[Allison Agosti]

The Plumber's Arms.

[Tyler Green]

I mean, like, that's the beautiful part. Yeah.

[Allison Agosti]

British pubs are kind of forever, or at least fight like hell to be forever.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Steven Ray Morris]

And they won't turn you in. That's some, like, no, don't ask, don't tell.

[Allison Agosti]

Especially if you're good at trivia Night. That would never turn you in. Oh, also, just so you know, our writer, Allison Agosti, really did a bunch of research and trying to find out what that pink brown lipstick color was from the Crown.

[Tyler Green]

That's amazing.

[Allison Agosti]

And there's a couple options. She thinks it's a Rodin Olioluso lipstick in a color so mod. I've never heard that lipstick name before.

[Steven Ray Morris]

That sounds like for rich people. I've never heard of that. When you hear like a brand, like a high end brand that you've never heard of, whether it's like clothing or makeup.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Steven Ray Morris]

It's like, oh, that's Hailey Bieber's favorite thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's something they sell at like, like.

[Steven Ray Morris]

A counter at Barney's. Yeah, Barney's counter, totally. You're not going to the Americana like Macy's and fucking picking that up next to the Chanel counter.

[Allison Agosti]

No, they won't let you touch it. Actually, if you're anywhere near it, all the women that work there turn their back on you like French maids in the 1600s. So now it's time to get into George's story, the Summerhill Road murders.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Hey, Karen, I want you to picture.

[Tyler Green]

Yourself going for a drive. What comes to mind?

[Allison Agosti]

Not ever being able to merge on any freeway in Los Angeles. And potholes and crying.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, yeah. Well, the truth is the road can.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Feel like it's out to get you at every turn.

[Tyler Green]

But Karen, it doesn't have to be this way.

[Allison Agosti]

Because Hyundai's available advanced safety technology is designed to help keep you protected from all of life's twists and turns.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Their vehicles offer available features designed to help safeguard you and your loved ones.

[Allison Agosti]

You can change lanes with confidence thanks to the available blind spot view monitor.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Which actually shows you a live video.

[Allison Agosti]

Feed of your blind spots.

[Tyler Green]

The standard forward collision avoidance assist can.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Help prevent or mitigate accidents by alerting you of imminent collision. Oh my God.

[Tyler Green]

This happens to me all the time.

[Steven Ray Morris]

And automatically applying the brakes if you don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is needed.

[Allison Agosti]

Hyundai vehicles are equipped with a standard driver attention warning system which constantly monitors your attention levels. I oh my God. Once detected, it sounds, alerts and visual cues to help bring your focus back to the road.

[Tyler Green]

Oh my God.

[Allison Agosti]

I mean, get this for me right now.

[Steven Ray Morris]

With available class exclusive safety features, Hyundai.

[Tyler Green]

Helps to keep you safe so you.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Can enjoy the drive.

[Allison Agosti]

Learn more about [e-mail] or call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

[Steven Ray Morris]

That's H Y U N d a I usa.com or call 562-314-4603.

[Tyler Green]

Goodbye.

[Allison Agosti]

Not everyone who handles your personal information is going to be as careful as you are. And it only takes one mistake to expose it to hackers and identity theft. Maybe that's why there's a nude victim of identity theft every five seconds in the United States. Fortunately, there's Lifelock. Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a LifeLock US based restoration specialist will help solve identity theft issues on your behalf, guaranteed or your money back. Plus, all Lifelock plans are backed by the million dollar protection package, meaning Lifelock will reimburse you up to the limits of your plan if you lose money due to identity theft. You can't control how diligent others are with your personal information, but with Lifelock, you can help protect it. Act now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code MURDER or go to lifelock.com murder for 40% off terms apply. There's something about spring that makes you want to refresh your whole life.

[Steven Ray Morris]

New routines, new goals. And definitely a new closet full of clothes.

[Allison Agosti]

Luckily, Quince makes your spring refresh easy. With their elevated basics, Quince has the.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Clothes you'll want to wear all season long.

[Allison Agosti]

You can grab 100 European linen shorts and dresses starting at $30, plus luxe swimwear and Italian leather platform sandals.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because because Quint works directly with top factories, they cut out the middleman and pass the savings on to you.

[Allison Agosti]

Quince only partners with factories that uphold safe, ethical manufacturing practices and use premium fabrics and finishes. I'm going to have to put away all my beautiful Quint sweaters. And as I put those sweaters away now I'm looking at beautiful sandals on their website. The Italian leather premium sandal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so beautiful. Perfect for spring hot weather clothes.

[Allison Agosti]

Come on some short sleeve shirts.

[Tyler Green]

Yes.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Treat your closet to a little summer glow up with quince.

[Allison Agosti]

Go to quince.com mfm for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Steven Ray Morris]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com mfm to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Allison Agosti]

Quince.com mfm Goodbye.

[Tyler Green]

Ready for the summer Hill Road murders?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Tyler Green]

Dude, this is one of these. This is one of those ones I've wanted to do for so long.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Tyler Green]

All right, quick sips, quick sip. So, Fayetteville, North Carolina. It's near Fort Bragg. Let's talk about 1985.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Tyler Green]

All right. So that Sunday, May 12th, an army sergeant named Bob Seifelt and his wife noticed that the papers were piling up on their neighbor's doorstep. And they were like, what's going on?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's bad.

[Tyler Green]

And you know we haven't seen her in a couple days and her, her, her car is in the driveway. Oh, the people that were living there was a woman named Catherine Eastburn. She was the mother to five year old Kara and three year old Aaron as well as Jana, who was 21 months. Her husband Gary Eastburn was away attending an Air Force captain in training school in Alabama. So he was out of town. They knew that she's not fucking around. What's going on? They heard a baby crying when they went to look at the house. They look in a window and see Jana, the 20 month, 21 month old, standing by herself in her crib. Her arms are outstretched to them. That for some reason fucking Bob is like, let's wait till the cops get here before we break in. The cops get there, they break in, they find Jana. She's severely dehydrated, so dehydrated. And when I fucking. I remember hearing this a while back that I, I think about it all the time. Her teeth were black and she had hours left to live.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God.

[Tyler Green]

I know. They pass her through the window to the neighbor and then they go to look through the rest of the house. So in the master bedroom they find the five year old Aaron lying on the floor by the bed. Her throat's been cut. On the other side of the bed is Katie, the mom. She's bound with rope. Her blouse and bra are pulled apart. She's naked from the waist down. Her throat is cut and she has multiple stab wounds to her body. I know. Fucked up shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Two doors down from the bedroom they find Kara, the three year old. It's really awful. She's stabbed to death as well. She's under her blanket. It looks like she's almost like hiding under her blanket. And she's stabbed to death. And also Katie, the mom was raped. All three had severed throats. I know. Guess what day it was that they found her. Mother's Day, 1985. All right, so the witnesses. So one neighbor says he saw a man leave their home at about 3am after the murders are thought to have taken place. Based on, you know, the autopsy, she said she saw a white Chevette park near the crime scene. Then a man who lived in the area named Patrick Cohn approaches and says that he saw a man leaving the residence three nights before when the murder was supposed to happen. And he says, quote, I was walking home from my girlfriend's house about 3.30am As I was walking, I saw a white Chevette parked on the road. Then I Saw this white dude walking down the lady's driveway. I passed right by him and he said, I'm getting an early start this morning or something like that. Then I watched him get in his white Chevette and drive off. He describes the man very thoroughly. He's 6 foot 4, blonde, he had on a black beanie, a black Members only jacket, white shirt, blue jeans. Had was like carrying a bag over his shoulder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It just makes me think of that. Did you see that graphic, that infographic where it said like in your life you'll walk by a murderer 36 times?

[Tyler Green]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's amazing.

[Tyler Green]

That was one of his 36, I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Think so or so in the 30s it was so. It's so high. I know for that it just made me think of that.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, that's scary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's horrifying.

[Tyler Green]

So three days after the murders, the cops find out that three, that a couple days before the family had been killed, they had put in a classified ad to get their dog adopted because they were leaving the country. So this Katie is by herself at home and a man answers the ad and comes and gets the dog during the day. And they're like, who the fuck is this dude? Here's a composite sketch. They put it on the fucking news. The man who adopted the dog, his name is Tim Hennis, was watching the news that night and was like, shit, that's the dog we adopted. And I look a lot like that sketch. So he goes to the police, he answers all their questions. He doesn't get an attorney. He gives them samples of hair, blood, semen, everything. He just, he's really cooperative. But he drives a white Chevette.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh no.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, they let him go because they don't have enough evidence to arrest him. But later the night they, they go back with a warrant for him and arrest him. So the night that they thought the women got or the mom and the kids got killed. So Tim Hennis had dropped his wife and their daughter off at his parent in laws. Then he drives to an ex girlfriend's house, propositions her, she shoots him down. He says he went home, ate dinner, watched TV and went to bed. The Friday morning, they thought that was Thursday night. The morning after, he takes a single item to the dry cleaners. A black members Only jacket.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, dude.

[Tyler Green]

The only things that were stolen from the house, it seems are a debit card and some cash. And so $150 is taken out twice. That's the limit. So $300. And it turns out that Tim Hennis is $300 short on rent, which he pays the Monday after these murders. Then a woman identifies him as being the man she saw at the same time that she was there at the atm. All right, so a forensic expert goes in there. He six months later, finds a condom package undiscovered by the police underneath the dresser. So he fucking finds a condom wrapper.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fucking.

[Tyler Green]

So according to him and his forensic expertise, he says that the condom suggests consensual sex because very rarely did rapists carry condoms to commit their violent acts. Which I want to fucking call bullshit on immediately.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In the 80s they probably thought that. But of course you don't want to leave DNA or anything behind.

[Tyler Green]

I just don't think. I just hate that argument that, well, if there was a condom on, then you had time to fight, or it was consensual somehow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Tyler Green]

You know what I mean? Like that. That pisses me off.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, yeah. That's insanity.

[Tyler Green]

That's what he says. He said that. So the man, Paul Stambach, concludes that the murders were committed by two assailants and that the little girls might have been killed because they could identify the killer. But he says someone said that they were killed cause they could identify the killer. But he says that the girls were asleep when they got killed. Okay, so this dude, Tim Hennis, goes to trial and the jury returns with a guilty verdict. And he's sentenced to three life sentences.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

No, no, no. I'm sorry. He's sentenced to death three times.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God. Yeah, because they're pissed. They're like, you killed little girls.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, yeah. Setting an example, right? When he's getting booked, he receives a postcard, this guy, Tim Hennis, from someone calling themselves Mr. X. And it says, Dear Mr. Hennis, I did the crime. I murdered the Eastburns. Sorry, you're doing the time. I'll be safely out of North Carolina when you read this. Thanks, Mr. X. Fuck you, Mr. X. Right. Who is that? And the prosecution got that, too.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who is that?

[Tyler Green]

Who is that? Mr. X. So he's on death row for two years, and then the defense is arguing to get him out of, you know, to get his conviction overturned. They argue that the crime scene photos that the jury saw were so gruesome and awful that it sway the jury's decision. And his conviction is overturned in 1989. And they. He gets sent back for a retrial. So he's convicted and then it's overturned and he goes back for a retrial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But. Sorry, but how can a picture sway, like just Having to look at that. There was no way that they could then go from there and make a decision.

[Tyler Green]

They put up these huge photos of it, you know, over his head and were hammering, you know, the crime scene photos, the autopsy photos of little girls were hammering at home and saying, you know, there was no. There was no way the jury would not want to convict someone for doing this stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and also, the jury was traumatized by having to be part of that. I feel so bad for those people.

[Tyler Green]

So, I mean, what do you think about that being overturned on those based on that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, and, you know, it just immediately makes me think of the staircase and like, those people where when we think of, like, the prosecutor, you give them all this credit. Like, you think, oh, these are gonna be people who are presenting a fair case fairly as opposed to people who have immediate bias and want to win their case and thing to do it.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, totally. I mean, and if you think about the evidence against him, we really don't have anything other than, you know, some witness statements and the fact that he was there a couple days beforehand getting the dog.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

He has no alibi that night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's bad news for him because it's almost like you were presenting it in a way where I was like, oh, this poor guy. But then the more things you said, I was like, it's totally that guy.

[Tyler Green]

How could you? It's so obvious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's the Occam's razor thing where it's like, there's no. It can't be a coincidence.

[Tyler Green]

Well, that's why I love this case. It's fucking. It gets worse. Okay, don't worry. It gets worse. So at his second trial, all the witnesses are wishy washy, and the prosecution argues this and that, you know, and they break under pressure. And so it's kind of all convoluted. And then the defense for Tim Hennis were able to find a dude who. Okay, so this dude would walk the neighborhood late at night. He was 6 4, same height as Tim Hennis. And he admitted to always wearing a members only jacket, a black beanie, a white T shirt, and dark corduroy pants, and carrying a book bag over his shoulder. He walks in the courtroom, he's a spitting fucking image of Tim Hennis. No. Yes.

[Allison Agosti]

No.

[Tyler Green]

Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right.

[Tyler Green]

Spitting image. Somehow this dude a agreed to fucking do this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Wouldn't you be like, I think it's time for me to move to San Francisco.

[Tyler Green]

Goodbye. So Tim Hennis acquitted on all counts Conviction overturned.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Acquitted now. Sorry. But they're not. They didn't prosecute that guy. They were. They were just saying it's possible.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. That some. They saw someone else. They. They kind of like, all the. Like, all the eyewitnesses, they were able to discredit for whatever reason.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Tyler Green]

So there was, you know, nothing really tying him to the murder, and Members.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Only jackets were crazy popular in 1985.

[Tyler Green]

That's true. Tall blonde men wearing Members Only jackets.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, my God, there were so many of them everywhere. Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Okay, let's go. All right, this is 89. Let's go to 2007.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Tyler Green]

DNA is a thing now. Oh, God. Thank fucking God. So there's DNA inside Kate, the mom who had been raped. Although they didn't. They didn't specifically say that she had been forcibly raped. They just. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because the condom theory.

[Tyler Green]

But there was semen inside of her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Tyler Green]

So the condom could have nothing to fucking do with any of this. The results of the DNA test from the semen inside of Kate showed with.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With.

[Tyler Green]

With 12 million to one certainty that the semen belonged to Tim Hennis.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Tyler Green]

Right. But he had already been acquitted.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Tyler Green]

So double jeopardy, right? Uh, da, da, da, da, da. It's. So double jeopardy is prohibited by the Fifth Amendment. It means that you can't get tried for something that you'd already been acquitted for. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Tyler Green]

Seems like it needs to be fixed, and it's stupid, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no.

[Tyler Green]

I mean, considering DNA now, like, in this situation.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But that's. No, it's a good law. Because it's like saying they can't just keep on coming at you and being like, we did. We believe it's you. Like, if they've proven. Yeah. If they. If you gone through it.

[Tyler Green]

But in a perfect system, when those prosecutors go to the judge with new evidence, the judge will. Will. Will, you know, judge that evidence and say whether or not it's worth a new trial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But there'll never be a perfect system because it's a human system.

[Tyler Green]

I know. That's the problem with life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So you can't just keep on going, like, well, here we're gonna do it again, and this time it's gonna be. Because then it could just be like if you had a crazy prosecutor that.

[Tyler Green]

Won'T leave you alone, well, guess what? They did it a third time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Tyler Green]

They took him to trial.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How?

[Tyler Green]

Well, I'll fucking tell you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How. I ask if. As if I'll never find out.

[Tyler Green]

I don't. I don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I Don't know.

[Tyler Green]

This is the end of my story. Okay, so Tim Hennis had been a soldier in the US army. So the. The state can't try him, but the army can. Oh, the military can. Because he'd been a soldier, the US army could. Could. And the federal government is a sovereign authority separate from the individual states that make up the country. Okay, so Tim, at this time, Tim Hennis, who's 49 years old, retired as fuck from the army, just chillaxing, chilling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As fuck, murdering entire family.

[Tyler Green]

So he's retired, and this is a big fucking point of contention. He is ordered out of retirement and back into active duty just so they could court martial him for the murders.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Shit.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Seems unfair, right? I mean, just if Devil's Advocate, if he was innocent.

[Tyler Green]

Unprecedented.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Like, and this argument of like, who has final say? Are you bigger than the. You know, it's government.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's government. If the government wants you, they're gonna get you.

[Tyler Green]

You. So at the. At the court martial trial, his attorney, Tim Hennis. Attorney. Brings up the possibility because they had found semen in her vagina, that maybe they had had consensual sex. Even though he had never admitted to that. And he didn't say that. The attorney did. And the fucking jury was like, are you. Like, that's what you're bringing up now? So they find him guilty on three counts of premeditated murder. But guess what? The statute of limitations had expired on rape. So he didn't get. Can we please talk about statute of limitations on rape?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel like they're getting rid of that. I feel like there's some states where they've gotten rid of it. Yeah, it's in action, I believe.

[Tyler Green]

It's just. I just want to bring it up how fucking disgusting that is.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, you're exactly right.

[Tyler Green]

It just makes me sick in the.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Same exact way that it's disgusting that Mike Pence wants women to have funerals for their fetuses, for miscarriages. Miscarriages. It's truly insanity.

[Tyler Green]

It's hurtful and mean and fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's spiteful and it's assuming. It's just so controlling and insane.

[Tyler Green]

It's so controlling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Tyler Green]

Found guilty. So now he's on death row, like right fucking now. This was in 2010. He's on death row in an army facility in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. Okay. Now let's get to a couple random things before we decide everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Okay.

[Tyler Green]

Okay. So in his case, there's no blood, fingerprints, or fiber evidence that connects him to the murder. And he has an alibi for the ATM visit, which is a little shaky. I'm not saying he didn't do it. I'm just saying, like, here's some weird shit because I really don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Tyler Green]

Two former FBI assistant directors released a report concluding that the unit. That the unit that had tested his DNA and found that it was in her vaginal swab, that they had overstated, misreported or withheld blood evidence in dozens of cases, including three that ended in executions.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no, they.

[Tyler Green]

The, the. Okay, this quote. They had to throw out cases and cases because the results were either doctored wrong or covered up. The lab was shown to be a total tool for the state's prosecutors.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, no.

[Tyler Green]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, and this was in. Sorry, this was in North Carolina.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Tyler Green]

Or Kansas. I don't want to be wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You started in North Carolina.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. But now. But he's in Kansas.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. Because of the army. Got it.

[Tyler Green]

Got it. All right, so let's really.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So basically they're just like, we're going to send the. This off to here and get exactly what we want back.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. And they're proven to be incorrect, but we're not gonna check back in with those crimes. And I'm pretty sure those swabs were held in a box that were unrefrigerated. That on the box of evidence said Tim Hennis name, not the name of the murder victims. Like they were already fucking targeting him. They were focusing on him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Tyler Green]

This is what they wanted to find.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Tyler Green]

All right. So finally, I just want to talk about Julie, who was the family babysitter of the three little girls. When they interviewed her. She told the cops that the residents had been targeted with harassing phone calls. Some of the sexual nature. And she said two other things. That her stepbrother strongly resembled Tim Hennis and even showed them photos of it. And that she had been assisting the vice squad in setting up bus from local for local drug dealers. And she even said on one occasion that she'd been followed home from the Eastburn residence by an angry drug dealer. Okay, but here's the coolest thing. Not coolest, but like worse. So she admits to her fascination. She's like a 16 year old. A fascination with Dr. Jeffrey McDonald.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fatal vision.

[Tyler Green]

Is that. What's that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's the one who was accused, right?

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. So he's a military officer. He claims a band of drug crazed long haired hippies broke into his home while he was sleeping on the couch, murdered his pregnant wife and two and five year old daughters. Yes. Sounds familiar. Right? While he upstairs, he's convicted of the slaying, sentenced to death. At the time of the murders, the fam. It was 1970, so it was clearly, you know, 15 years difference. But at the time of the murders, the McDonald family lived four and a half miles from the fucking Eastbourne home.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. And this girl who was the babysitter of these three little girls was fascinated and writing him letters. And they were communicating in prison. And her fucking siblings looked exactly like these guys.

[Steven Ray Morris]

And.

[Tyler Green]

She believed he was innocent. They wrote all the time they had. The DEA had set up a drug deal using Julie, this girl Julie. And the victim's house that weekend that fell through and the murders happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No way.

[Tyler Green]

Right? She was obsessed with him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Apparently she was obsessed with Jeffrey McDonald.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dr. Jeffrey McDonald.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wait, that girl. Okay, the babysitter's like, what a rich life she's living because she's setting up, up like she's trying to do like drug stings.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, and she's 16.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus Christ. I know right now also, did she. Was that a secret to the family that she's like setting these stings up for?

[Tyler Green]

I don't think the family knew, but she like blabbed to the cops immediately about all this stuff.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh my God.

[Tyler Green]

I know, right? Like the. It's just too crazy that, that the murders are so similar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What's your theory like with all of that? Well, I'm just saying, do you think he's innocent or guilty?

[Tyler Green]

You know me, I can go fucking either way. I think it's that thing of like, I don't know if he's involved or not, but I don't know if he should be in prison or not. I don't know. I don't know. It's too circumstantial to me. And the fact that they didn't get DNA until 2007, especially if there was a condom wrapper. And that was their theory.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Was it a common wrapper or was it a used condom?

[Tyler Green]

I think it was a condom wrapper.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it was just basically proof that there was a condom somewhere in play. Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

And the forensic guy was like, I don't know, the sex life between the husband and wife. But this was there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Tyler Green]

So if, if you're introducing a condom wrapper and semen. Oh, and. Oh, no, wait, hold on. There was like a towel that had blood on it. There were all these. There was a shoe print that was a size 9 and Tim was a size 13 in blood. There was all these. It points to. At least I know there are more than one. There's more than one murderer or more than one person. Yeah. So either he did it with someone else or, you know, someone thought there was money in the house. They knew this woman was alone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The thing to me, the idea of killing children, slashing, stabbing children to death and slashing their. That's a person who is beyond right. That's a person that is, that's a person that's not motivated by money or drugs because I feel like those people or that has to be a person that's maybe on drugs.

[Tyler Green]

And then you think about the fact that they left the 21 month old alive because she couldn't identify anyone and you think, okay. At first I was like, well they must know the assailant, they must know the killer, otherwise he wouldn't have had to, you know, if they just went in there to rob and rape and even kill the mother, right? They, unless. But then the forensic dude said that they were sleeping, which I don't completely buy because I guess she was like cowering under her Star wars blanket. I know, which is heartbreaking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, yeah, I mean, it's like you.

[Tyler Green]

Don'T why, why you don't kill children if you're just right. Because even, even burglars are just like, I just want to steal shit. You don't kill children. You don't go from, from stealing fucking money to killing children.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right? And, and you don't even if you're retaliating against someone like a stool pigeon. Who is this 16 year old girl? What does a 5 year old have to do with that? And who has the fucking ice cold in their veins to be able to kill two children and the mother? And then why would you leave the rape child? All of it is so random to me.

[Tyler Green]

What makes sense is that the girl told information to the wrong people. Maybe she had nothing to do with it and she was obsessed with it. I mean maybe she did. The fact that she was obsessed with this killer who killed. Who maybe killed, you know, and that's a whole nother fucking. My favorite murder. Because we've, I think we've both talked about that one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

How Errol Morris thinks he's innocent. Yeah, yeah.

[Tyler Green]

I mean that's a whole fucking episode. But it's too similar to the fucking murderer she was obsessed with, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And maybe he's not the murderer and, or innocent man she's obsessed with because there is that, there is why.

[Tyler Green]

But they're still the same. They're still so similar.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, very similar. That's crazy. Now it's such a personal thing to stab somebody to death. It's such an angry thing and such as we all know that's like a personal attack where. Has the husband in any way been introduced into this mix?

[Tyler Green]

No. Gary is a fucking saint and a good guy. He and his. He raised. She is fucking amazing and wonderful. Like, he had nothing to do with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, Right. Okay.

[Tyler Green]

For sure. I know it seems like he should and you'd look into it, but I really don't think he does.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They always. You know, the husband's the first.

[Tyler Green]

Totally. And then I wonder, like, okay, so stabbing is a really personal thing and that. But that's. That's not as gruesome as something like slitting someone's throat. Like, those are two very different fucking. Oh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I would argue it's more gruesome because you could stabbing because it's repeated. Whereas slitting someone's throat, you can do it and walk away and know that they're gonna bleed out and die.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, but have you ever, like, punched someone and you're like, I really like mid punch. You're like, I don't want to do this. And so you kind of do it like weekly, like week. No, no.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, I've never punched anyone, I don't think.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, go ahead, hit me in the face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's do an experiment right now.

[Tyler Green]

Let's do it now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I mean, wasn't it multiple? I mean, like this insane.

[Tyler Green]

Cut someone's throat hard enough to fucking kill them. I feel like. Takes more effort than. Than someone who doesn't really want to be doing this. You know what I mean? Like, I know what, dude.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. But if you don't want to be doing it, you're not going to then lightly stab multiple times. Like, that's the. That's the thing is it wasn't. If it were to me, slashing someone's throat is similar to. It's like you don't have a gun. It's similar to like a kill shot in the back of the head where you're just getting it over with.

[Tyler Green]

Whereas stabbing is incapacitate them by stabbing them and then you slit their throat to just fucking end it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the stabbing part is the part where you get involved and that's. Why would you even go through that unless you want to.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, unless you're okay with the idea of fucking stabbing a human.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also.

[Tyler Green]

Also, she kind of looked like my mom.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The mom Kate did.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. Had that, like.

[Karen Kilgariff]

70S mom hair.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, yeah, sorry, go on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, no, no. I'm just thinking like, it's just so crazy the fact that they had two witnesses for a person that was leaving the house at 3am you know what I mean? And also, how can it be that many coincidences where it's like he was there, he had the same car, he had the same clothes, he went there.

[Tyler Green]

A couple days before, knew she was alone in the house.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's not good for him.

[Tyler Green]

I don't think so either. It doesn't. The coincidences that would have to happen for that to happen are fucking insane. He gets what people think online. Like Websleuths is like the coolest fucking website and they're like discussing it, which.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is all over Killing Season, by the way. It's there. Like they talk about websleuths the whole time.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

So they're like, well, he went to his ex girlfriend's house that night, got turned down for boning and was like horny as fuck. Knew a woman who was home alone, went over there, she turned him down and he fucking flipped. Yeah, that's theory. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he's like enraged at women. He's like on a mission.

[Tyler Green]

But he's never, according to everyone else, the rest of his life he's been a fucking decent human being.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Tyler Green]

He does have some, some check forging charges, but that's not the same thing as.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, but that's something that's. Well, it's not a totally clean record. That's not being like a decent being human being. That, that means check forging is like you're willing to cheat to get money. Yeah, that's something. I feel like that's the way some people start.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. And then you need to cover your tracks and shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Oh my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know. That's crazy.

[Tyler Green]

I don't fucking know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And horrible in so many ways.

[Tyler Green]

Those poor little babies. Oh, that's what I wanted to end on actually, is that I wanted to end with talking about the victims because it's like, I don't want to end on this fucking dick. So Gary, the dad, the father and the dad, the tombstones that he had them etched with. So Aaron, okay, so Aaron, who's three years old, he had tiny dancer written on her tombstone. For Kara, who was five, he had daddy's little shadow. And for Catherine, his wife, he had you are the sunshine of my life. I just wanted. I just didn't want to end on.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Something that wasn't tragically Sent.

[Tyler Green]

I just wanted to mention them at the end.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, totally.

[Tyler Green]

You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Of course. I mean, yes, absolutely, but no, that's.

[Tyler Green]

Karen, please tell me what happened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, here's what happened.

[Tyler Green]

Please. Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That guy got a dog. And that dog was a piece of shit and he was pretty pissed off.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, that's it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This theory falls apart. No, this is. That's maddening. And it's the kind of thing when it introduces the idea that DNA evidence can't be trusted, that the system can't be trusted, that an entire prosecutor's office can't, then it doesn't really matter what answers you come up with, because nothing ever feels like an answer to me.

[Tyler Green]

The. The. The period on the sentence is that there is so many other DNA hits in that house that there's no way that the story they're telling us is what happened. Blood on a towel from, like, AF after killing them. It looks like it was cleaned up. There's a pubic hair in the fucking living room. There's bloody footprints. There's fibers and DNA under two of their fingernails that don't match to him. Oh, there's DNA under their fingernails and for some reason they refuse to put it through codis. That's very weird, isn't it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because they don't want to introduce something that doesn't match.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, man.

[Tyler Green]

Hey, so, yeah, that's. That's the Summerhill Road murders. That has fucking stuck with me for years and years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's crazy. That's amazing.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Tyler Green]

Hi.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi. How are you?

[Tyler Green]

I'm ruined. How are you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Not great.

[Tyler Green]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, fascinating, though.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah. Isn't it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, because they are. I just was reading something recently about how. I think it's the hair evidence. Was it hair evidence? Something is being. Becoming more reliable than fingerprint.

[Tyler Green]

Something's being more reliable, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like finger. They're starting to say the fingerprint evidence might not be as reliable as they thought.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Basically, I think, obviously we know that forensic science is still developing.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I just wish it would move ahead quick so we could just find out. Because that's the confidence of DNA evidence being the final word. That's why everyone goes, okay, well, sorry, but it's DNA evidence, so goodbye.

[Tyler Green]

Nothing we can do about it. Instead of knowing that humans deal with that DNA from the moment it is picked up as evidence at the scene, it's being picked up by a human to when it's tested in the lab.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To a lab being, like, owned by the prosecutor's office.

[Allison Agosti]

It's like humans.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's just horrifying.

[Tyler Green]

This is why I think that double jeopardy in. In the age of DNA and retesting and the Innocence Project and all this, we might need to rethink that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't think so.

[Tyler Green]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, because it's like saying you get the one chance.

[Tyler Green]

Well, it's. Yeah. So it's so shitty that, like, you know, all these. All these defense attorneys or. Sorry, all these prosecutors and cops, you know, when they can't bring a trial, they can't bring someone to trial because they don't have the body. You know, so they have to wait until they find the body.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Tyler Green]

It's just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dude, I don't know.

[Tyler Green]

So you let this person go free or do you try to fucking. Do you try without a body to convict them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean. Yeah. You have to do something. Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

And if it doesn't. If it doesn't go well, then in 10 years, when the DNA can be tested or the body is found and the DNA is tested and it matches, then you should be able to fucking retry them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I disagree.

[Tyler Green]

I know. Punch me in the face.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'll see. That'll prove it.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right. Forensic scientists out there Keep doing what you're doing.

[Tyler Green]

Angels shout out Tell us things that we did yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We don't know what the fuck we're talking about.

[Tyler Green]

It sounds cool, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ours are all just feelings.

[Tyler Green]

So many feelings.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do you want to say a good thing from your week?

[Tyler Green]

Do I have one? Do I have a good thing for my week? What do you have?

[Allison Agosti]

I can't think.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, that's like when you're trying to order in a restaurant. It's like. No, you can go ahead.

[Tyler Green]

You go first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You go ahead. You go first. Okay. Tuna melt.

[Tyler Green]

Tuna melts are pretty good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

God. Well, you know, last night, Allison Agassi and I went and saw the movie Delicatessen, which is.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, that's a good movie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's from, like, the late 80s, I think, or the early 90s. Yeah.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, that's a fucking art house film.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a total art house film. And we saw it at Cinefamily. I guess Cinefamily would be my thing of the week, because it makes me feel smart to go there and, like, a film person.

[Tyler Green]

Film.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm into film. But then also they have just amazing movies where when you're sitting there, you go, oh, that's why you have to see these movies on the big screen. And Della Contessin was like.

[Tyler Green]

Like the greatest that's great. I guess. Well, last week was Thanksgiving and I guess just my family and I had the lamest, best Thanksgiving and it was awesome and so stupid and not fake. And my year old nephew is there and he's the best fucking thing I've ever seen in my life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Kids are the greatest.

[Tyler Green]

Oh, he's an angel baby. As is my six year old nephew. But he's not a baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, he's moved into a different area.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, but he's great too. So I guess nephews.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Tyler Green]

Nephews.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nice.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All right, well. Rate review, subscribe.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, please. I mean, we're not. That's not just fucking lip service. Please actually do that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's not our lip service to you fake asking. We're genuinely false.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, if you don't mind, that'd be great. And just. And just say sexy and don't get murdered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye, Elvis.

[Tyler Green]

You want a cookie? Oh, you want a cookie?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was sleeping. Okay, bye.

[Tyler Green]

Bye. Good boy.

[Allison Agosti]

And we are back.

[Steven Ray Morris]

That story is like the definition of the line. Don't worry, it gets worse.

[Allison Agosti]

Yes, you literally said it during the episode. And it is like, it starts terrible and just devolves from there.

[Steven Ray Morris]

It does. It's one of those frustrating ones where you're like, I'm not totally sure what happened because everything is so convoluted and it didn't have to be that way.

[Tyler Green]

Yeah, but it is.

[Allison Agosti]

Any updates on this?

[Steven Ray Morris]

Yeah, there are some random facts that I want to update everyone on. And this one for condoms and rape case investigations. On that topic, the criminal justice system began widely acknowledging that that some rapists use condoms. During their attacks. In the 1990s, they acknowledged that as forensic science evolved and more cases highlighted this tactic. But before the 1990s, the absence of semen sometimes led investigators to doubt whether an assault had even occurred, which we argue about in this case, or assume the attacker failed to ejaculate, which is just a wild assumption. Either way, that should not be made.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Tyler Green]

At all.

[Allison Agosti]

No.

[Steven Ray Morris]

And then as far as the statute of limitations goes on rapes, several US states have eliminated the statute of limitations for rape and other felony sex crimes. Thank God. Like that needs to be worldwide. And the list is ever changing. So check out rainn.org for a complete state by state guide. And as part of the justice for all act of 2004, federal crimes like rape on federal land or military bases is. There's no limitation if DNA evidence is involved. So that's a nice update.

[Allison Agosti]

Yeah, that's good.

[Steven Ray Morris]

So regarding the case with Updates. Timothy Hennis continues to sit on death row. His lawyers have filed appeals challenging the Army's jurisdiction and citing constitutional double jeopardy prohibitions. They also filed a writ for sertir rari with the U.S. supreme Court. But as of 2021, all of these have been denied.

[Allison Agosti]

Okay, well, let's talk about our favorite part of this episode, which is truly the name Funky Diva. The store of Funky Diva. The history with Funky Diva, Georgia's life at Funky Diva. Perhaps our sliding doors moment where we were both at Funky Diva at the same time.

[Tyler Green]

That's right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I believe that happened. I believe it's real.

[Steven Ray Morris]

I bet it did, for sure.

[Allison Agosti]

Red string theory of, like, you're over here with your choker, trying to ring some people up. I'm over there looking at ringer T shirts and trying to figure out a new joke for my set.

[Steven Ray Morris]

That definitely happened, Right? So it should be named Funky Diva. But let's say we were gonna change the name today to name it something updated, maybe the wrong p. Cast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We could call it the funniest thing of me loving it. And then you going like, it's Vincent.

[Allison Agosti]

Like, admitting it immediately is the funniest. Cause that's the funniest.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jokes that I ever say are always.

[Allison Agosti]

Just my friends saying that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I heard them say it's so.

[Tyler Green]

Which I feel so guilty.

[Steven Ray Morris]

I can't do it.

[Allison Agosti]

I mean, I love that you called.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yourself out, but it's so hilarious because it's like something as simple as pee cast. You're like, vince.

[Allison Agosti]

Vince made that up.

[Tyler Green]

I can't. Yeah.

[Allison Agosti]

Of course, we could also name it Orange Junco Jeans. Or if you want to, Orange Janco Jeans.

[Steven Ray Morris]

It has to be incorrect. No, it has to be incorrect.

[Allison Agosti]

That's how I like it.

[Steven Ray Morris]

And then my question to you always, how about we could call it is it British?

[Allison Agosti]

And the answer is always yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Capital yes.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Always. Yes.

[Allison Agosti]

That was a great episode.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Yeah. You guys, thanks for listening to again, thanks for listening a second time, maybe to this episode and the first time.

[Allison Agosti]

To this episode of Rewind Reanalysis. Just really getting in there and taking a fine tooth comb to this podcast. What a great celebration of our work.

[Steven Ray Morris]

What could go wrong?

[Allison Agosti]

Stay sexy.

[Tyler Green]

Don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis.

[Steven Ray Morris]

Do you want a cookie?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you want me to pet you?

[Tyler Green]

I think you want me to pet you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You may not know where you stand.

[Tyler Green]

With your friend's cat that somehow knows.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You'Re a dog person. Your claws are out, but they look relaxed.

[Tyler Green]

But you always know exactly where you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stand with the spirit. Sport clips app that shows you the shortest weight and the haircut tracker that tracks your real time.

[Tyler Green]

Wait time down to the minute. Yep, you definitely want to be pet.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, Sorry.

[Allison Agosti]

My bad.

[Tyler Green]

The Sport Clips app.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a game changer.