Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 46: Skippers Unite!

Summary

Podcast Summary: My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark Episode: Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 46: Skippers Unite!
Release Date: May 21, 2025
Hosted By: Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Network: Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In "Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 46: Skippers Unite!", hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark revisit their original Episode 46 titled "Skippers Unite." This special episode combines nostalgic reflections with fresh commentary, offering listeners both long-time fans and newcomers an engaging look back at their favorite moments.

Understanding the "Skippers"

The term "skippers" refers to listeners who tend to fast-forward through podcast episodes. Karen and Georgia humorously delve into this phenomenon, discussing how their audience interacts with their content.

Notable Quote:

• Karen Kilgariff at [02:17]: "In these trying times, at least we can come together on one issue, and that's Skippers needing to shut up."

Recapping Episode 46: Skippers Unite!

The original Episode 46 featured a blend of scripted banter and true crime storytelling. Karen, Georgia, and a third voice, "Elvis," engage in lighthearted conversations before delving into a true crime narrative.

Notable Quote:

• Georgia Hardstark at [08:20]: "We can't get Lyme disease."

This segment sets the tone for the episode, balancing humor with serious discussions.

Delving into True Crime Cases

1. Leslie Allen Williams Case

Karen and Georgia revisit the chilling story of Leslie Allen Williams, a serial killer from Detroit. Williams' criminal history is marked by multiple early releases and subsequent violent offenses, highlighting systemic flaws in the parole system.

• Background: Leslie Allen Williams was first arrested as a teenager for various crimes, including attempted rape and kidnapping. Despite his violent tendencies, he received minimal sentences and was paroled after serving only seven years.

• Crimes: After his release, Williams committed several brutal murders, targeting both males and females ranging from teenagers to the elderly. His method involved stalking, kidnapping, and suffocating his victims.

• Impact: The case led to significant legislative changes in Michigan, making the parole board more accountable and contributing to the state's overcrowded prison system.

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff at [34:35]: "In May of 1992, 39-year-old Leslie Allen Williams of Detroit is arrested when the police find a woman in the trunk of his car. A live woman."
• Elvis at [36:27]: "Rehabilitation works. No, it doesn't."

2. Sherri Papini Case

The hosts discuss the mysterious disappearance and subsequent resurfacing of Sherri Papini, a local woman from Fenton, Michigan.

• Details: Sherri disappeared under suspicious circumstances and was later found with no clear explanation of what transpired during her absence. The case remains a topic of intense speculation and investigation.

• Community Reaction: The case sparked debates about media attention and the effectiveness of law enforcement in handling missing persons cases.

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff at [47:40]: "He had been aggressively stalking her before that. And the cops were like, well, he hadn't committed a crime."
• Elvis at [50:02]: "You want it to be harsher sentences."

3. Israel Keys Case

One of the most discussed segments revolves around Israel Keys, a prolific and elusive serial killer whose crimes spanned over a decade across multiple states.

• Modus Operandi: Keys specialized in abducting, torturing, and murdering individuals in remote locations, making his crimes difficult to connect and solve.

• Arrest and Suicide: Eventually caught due to the use of his stolen ATM card, Keys committed suicide in jail, leaving many questions unanswered about his total number of victims.

• FBI Investigation: Post-arrest, the FBI uncovered numerous potential sites and murder kits, but the full extent of Keys' atrocities remains unknown.

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff at [66:54]: "He just wants to kill everybody."
• Stephen Ray Morris at [91:26]: "There's so many unanswered questions, of course, about Israel Keys, how many victims he has, where those victims are, how many states he hit."

Host Dynamics and Personal Insights

Throughout the episode, Karen and Georgia share personal anecdotes and updates, providing a glimpse into their lives outside the podcast.

• Tour Discussions: They brainstorm ideas for a possible podcast tour, humorously contemplating performing in national parks to align with their true crime themes.

• Personal Updates: Karen mentions her admiration for another true crime podcast, while Georgia shares her recent endeavors and interests.

Notable Quotes:

• Karen Kilgariff at [56:33]: "I highly recommend that."
• Elvis at [74:14]: "We are the best fucking podcasters that I've ever podcasted."

Closing Remarks

Karen and Georgia wrap up the episode by reflecting on their journey since launching "My Favorite Murder" in 2016. They acknowledge both their loyal listeners and those who may prefer different podcasting styles, reinforcing their commitment to delivering unique true crime narratives infused with their signature humor.

Notable Quote:

• Georgia Hardstark at [25:22]: "But the people who do listen specifically do it, I think, for the intro."

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Conclusion

"Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 46: Skippers Unite!" offers a comprehensive look back at one of "My Favorite Murder's" pivotal episodes. Through heartfelt discussions and in-depth case analyses, Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark provide valuable insights into both their personal experiences and the broader implications of the true crime stories they cover. This episode serves as a testament to their enduring passion for true crime and their dedication to engaging with their audience in meaningful ways.

Transcript

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is exactly right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Elvis]

Goodbye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My favorite.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Hello and welcome to RE.

[Georgia Hardstark]

With Karen in Georgia.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

That's right, every Wednesday we recap our old episodes with all new commentary, updates and insights.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And today we're recapping episode 46, which we named. Don't fast forward. We named Skippers Unite.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Skippers Unite. In these trying times, at least we can come together on one issue, and that's Skippers needing to shut up. This episode came out on December 8.

[Georgia Hardstark]

2016, and in honor of our Skippers, let's get right into it. Here's the intro of episode 46.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go. Hey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Hi. Hi.

[Elvis]

How are you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hi.

[Elvis]

Go Podcasting. Podcasting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go to Do I have podcasting? What if this was a podcast about podcasting?

[Elvis]

That could be a thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That would be the end of us.

[Elvis]

What if this was a podcast about podcasts to talk about podcasting?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if this is a podcast about how to start a podcast? And then we started listening to it and learned and we're soon able to start a podcast correctly.

[Elvis]

That would be. I think that would be detrimental to our.

[Karen Kilgariff]

To our brand.

[Elvis]

To our brand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, sorry.

[Elvis]

Detrimental to our personalities.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Detrimental to rift our riff styles.

[Elvis]

Yeah, well, this is all. This is all scripted. This part.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Isn't that weird how much we play it natural when actually we're reading every word we're saying right now off of large teleprompters?

[Elvis]

Georgia, laugh out loud.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, shit. Karen, laugh even louder and clap your hands. Welcome. Hey, did you say bye?

[Elvis]

Sigh. Welcome to my favorite murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Welcome to my favorite murder, the podcast that asks the question, why do people listen to this and doesn't answer it and then talks about other stuff.

[Elvis]

Yep. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Our blessed, blessed Steven Ray Morris brought me a gift today that, you know, people who know how to give a gift.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it really means a lot because, like my own mother, for years at Christmas, I would open things and be like, you clearly wanted someone else as a child. I walked in tonight and there was a Diet Coke tall boy waiting for me on Georgia's cocktail table.

[Elvis]

He doesn't even. He puts it in Karen's spot. Like, he doesn't even say, like, hey, Karen, like, hand it to her. It's like. And he did it when I, Like, I came out and I was like, oh. Like, it's just so sweet and so subtle. And it's like, in your spot. Thanks, Steven.

[Karen Kilgariff]

All those things, Steven. And then on top of it, the things I want the most, which are Diet Coke and quantity.

[Elvis]

Steven's your new mommy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Steve's my mommy. And also. Oh, I called him Steve. And also, also when I was a young alcoholic, really ready to take on the world through slurry speech and secrets.

[Elvis]

The best way, man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Secrets no one wanted to hear. I still. I would drink Budweiser tall boys from the corner store because they were cheap. And they would get you, like, buzzed enough so that you could still use money and not, like, lose your. Lose money or lose your.

[Elvis]

That, like, perfect buzz that you should have just written, but instead you added to it always. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

Two glasses of champagne. Here I am. Fucking rock me. Like, you know. And then like a hurricane. Yeah. Then I'm like, well, one more then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

And then I'm like, oh, yes, stupid.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then I go, two more. Now let's switch to Jameson's. Now let's fight the doorman. That's why I had to stop drinking. It would always go down this path where I was like, wait, don't do that.

[Elvis]

Now it's on to I thought you were like. And now it's onto gin. Nope. Now I'm fighting the doorman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Now Duke's up. Now it's like, I'll kick you in the shin and then tell you a secret.

[Elvis]

Oh, yeah, I'm plucky. I'm plucky. Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm angry about things that don't make sense. I've had every advantage in life, and I'm still mad.

[Elvis]

I want it all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So thank you, Steven. Thank you, Steve.

[Elvis]

Thanks for bringing back her memories.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Means the world. I'm glad. And thank you all for listening to my favorite murder.

[Elvis]

That's Karen, by the way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And that's Georgia.

[Elvis]

Georgia's still an alcoholic. Karen's an ex alcoholic.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's all the same. No, I'm still an alcoholic. You always are. Yes, but you're not an alcoholic or you would have fucked everything up.

[Elvis]

Now I'm a practicing. I'm a. I went to a new doctor today and I was like, natural naturopath. I can't say it. Natur. Naturopath.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A homeopath or nature.

[Elvis]

Natural path.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A natural path.

[Elvis]

And I was like, how do I explain to her, like, what's wrong with me? Because there's a lot wrong with me. And I was like, oh, I know. And I'm a very highly functioning mess. Oh, that's. That's it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

Yeah. Like I.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did she get it?

[Elvis]

Yes. She was great. She got me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Awesome.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who can't say that, though? Who would say that about themselves?

[Elvis]

People who aren't high functioning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's true.

[Elvis]

You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

That might be me. Or I'm like, I'm a mess that also can't return phone calls.

[Elvis]

Except you're. You also clearly don't believe in yourself because you're incredibly high functioning. Oh, that's. You have a fucking job and a hit fucking podcast. What? No, she became that person.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Lizzie Cooperman.

[Elvis]

I did become Lizzie Cooperman. Yeah. Speaking of. Hey, we're on the itunes. Fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know. I think we have to cut down Bragg corner. It gets me scared.

[Elvis]

Okay. I just wanted to thank everyone for listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're right.

[Elvis]

Because they wouldn't. We wouldn't be on this if nobody listened.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's exactly right.

[Elvis]

That's why I wanted to thank you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. See you later.

[Elvis]

That was Bragg corner. That was. That was brag. But. But really embarrassed about a corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I have a lot of shame issues. That's what I have to take to my nature path.

[Elvis]

Brag. Shame. Issues, brag. Shame corner. That's just your natural path.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm going to take it down a natural path to a pond. I'm going to throw it down in the pond of shame.

[Elvis]

Oh, it's a beautiful pond.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's such a gorgeous bottomless pond.

[Elvis]

I go boating there, like sailboating there sometimes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I really enjoy myself on the pond of shame.

[Elvis]

I bring a. What do you. Parasol.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, Right. Yeah, Like a. Like a classy lady from the 20s.

[Elvis]

Yeah, a classy, shameful person. That's me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's me all over.

[Elvis]

What other corners do you want to talk about? I guess, should we get ready to show corners so, like, the skippers don't skip this part.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Tour corner.

[Elvis]

Tour corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exciting Announcement Corner.

[Elvis]

We're gonna have a tour happening, you guys.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're. Somebody believes we're legit because they have actually planned a semi, not really nationwide tour for us. And perhaps slightly outside nature. I mean, America. National.

[Elvis]

We're only going to national parks. That's what Karen's trying to say. We're only doing shows in natural park and we're trying.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're trying to do. Get disappeared out of a natural park. Like those weird stories where people disappear.

[Elvis]

Out of natural parks and everyone. The only. You have to chop down a tree if you're going to come.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Elvis]

We're going to basically chop down all the woods.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're going to go find the bad people in the woods.

[Elvis]

Oh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we're going to live podcast murder them.

[Elvis]

Have you heard the number of, like, how many. Do we already talk about this? How many murderers are. You brought that up?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Elvis]

How many murderers or murders happen in national parks?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the whole thing of children disappearing in national parks and it's like, is.

[Elvis]

It an animal or is it a human animal?

[Karen Kilgariff]

But if it's an animal, how did they get so far away? 10 miles away.

[Elvis]

Clothing thing. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, there's no bones or spoor.

[Elvis]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Elvis]

We got to do a fucking national park show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

National park tour where we're dressed up in park ranger outfits.

[Elvis]

Oh, I look good in brown. I know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And kind of like, I'll do a moss green thing that won't look good on me, but I'll wear a strong red lip and they'll be like, I don' No, I like it anyway.

[Elvis]

Tight ponytails just because they're no nonsense.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. And those pads where it looks like we're writing people tickets. But it's like, it's love. It just.

[Elvis]

We can't get Lyme disease. Hey, do you guys want to know about our tour?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, actually, should we talk about the thing we brought up?

[Elvis]

No. So we're. I guess we're going to tour from, like, January to April.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

But, like, the most, like, we don't want to travel that much. Tour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Like a weekend or tour.

[Elvis]

We should call it something that we don't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We should call it.

[Elvis]

We don't try too hard tour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. Give us, like, three weeks and we'll get a great name of a tour for you.

[Elvis]

We don't care about you. What's the city we're not going to. We don't care about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Don't do it. Don't.

[Elvis]

Okay, okay. Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And everyone's heart. Because then we have to go there.

[Elvis]

Because we're actually going to one of the cities I said I don't want to go to. Fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Elvis]

All right. Ready? Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

Do you know what I've decided?

[Karen Kilgariff]

What?

[Elvis]

I don't know, Ryan. I'm gonna sound like a dick. That if we go overseas, I'm fucking flying first class. I'm flying myself first class.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's nice.

[Elvis]

Because, you know, I have all those anxieties about travel, and my therapist was like, fucking spend a little extra money.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Elvis]

And it's okay. Like, don't buy all the weird shit you buy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So save up. Save up and get one of the craziest, most expensive. But that's very true because I don't.

[Elvis]

Know how much it is. Is it really crazy?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like, it's gonna be a couple thousand dollars.

[Elvis]

Oh, never mind. I thought it'd be like a thousand maybe.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It'll be pretty expensive, especially if you're going to, like, Europe or Australia. But, like, for Australia, I actually. My father, who is very frugal and very, like, no frills, no frills Kilgariff, he was like, you have my mother. And he loved Australia. And they would go. They went there a month.

[Elvis]

My God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he was like, we. The first time we went, we flew over coach, and they came back executive class, which I think is just like the cheap man's version of first class.

[Elvis]

It's what it used to be. It's what normal flying used to be is, business class.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Before they smashed everybody together. Anyhow, he basically said, the man who won't smoke money on anything was like, you have to buy a first class ticket if you're going. If you're going to be in a plane for that long, treat yourself. It's completely worth it. So don't feel bad.

[Elvis]

I'm doing it anyway. What else?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I just saw the pictures on the Facebook of the DC meetup. Did you look at it?

[Elvis]

Did you look at the cocktails they made?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Did you? Now, the cocktail that was the Karen is exactly my personality.

[Elvis]

Shut up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't know who that person is, but it was literally like scotch, dram buoy coffee. And, like, it was pretty. A middle finger. It made me so happy.

[Elvis]

It was pretty legit. Wait, let me read the menu, because the menu is so good. So it was called that. It just said, the menu is called drinks. And underneath it, in parentheses, it said, do not drink with older people, which I fucking love. And then the beer on draft was called Stay out of the forest and drink local beer. Then the beer in the bottle was Toxic masculinity.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yay.

[Elvis]

And then they had the boot. The cocktails was called I'm going to go get some juice. In case you're new to this, these are all things that have come out of our faces.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Elvis]

So there was the Georgia, which I loved. Pepper spray first. The fuck politeness. The fuck everyone. The sweet honesty and the Karen. Coffee, Scotch, vodka. Jesus. Dram buoy chocolate bitters. I bet that was good. I mean, and you need one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's truly, like. And I would have drank three. It's really. I really identified with the Karen.

[Elvis]

And then their jello shot of the week was called Round Shit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Thank you, guys. Thank you, D.C. that's hilarious. And it's very exciting also. I like it. What's that?

[Elvis]

Why aren't we going to dc?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I won't. For political reasons. Just kidding.

[Elvis]

For a minute, I was like, oh, no, you're Karen. You didn't get.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I don't have political reasons. No, I'm not sure. I guess he's just, like, booking the places he's booking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Elvis]

This might be our first kind of tour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I mean, this is. We're just doing our best.

[Elvis]

Unless this motherfucking implodes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Can you imagine halfway through, we're scratching each other's eyes out.

[Elvis]

I think one of those dates is, like, right around when we started is like, our anniversary.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That'd be very cool.

[Elvis]

That'd be very cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What if our anniversary shows in Indianapolis and we're just like, hands across America, we love you. We build a bridge of love.

[Elvis]

Again, I apologize for saying I would never go there. It's too late, because I'm going.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's too late. Yeah, no, we're. We're gonna show up there. What if. What if we're there when that. There's like a true crime convention that's there?

[Elvis]

I think he did that on purpose.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I think we sent him that.

[Elvis]

And we're like, can we go to this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you serious? Yes.

[Elvis]

There's a true crime convention in Indianapolis and our fucking amazing tour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dude, I feel like crying a little bit right now. Why? Just I like. I like it all so much.

[Elvis]

It's a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I like it so much.

[Elvis]

It's really a lot.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's good times.

[Elvis]

Like, it's so much.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's really good. This is crazy now. Can I change the topic really quick?

[Elvis]

I can tell you want to and I'll let you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Thank you. I'm not comfortable. I'm not comfortable. In celebration or.

[Elvis]

This is called. This is. You get one free. Change the topic every episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The yogurt shop murders were 25 years ago yesterday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I have the book right over there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you serious? Yeah. Are you reading the book about it?

[Elvis]

I haven't started because of reasons, but.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because you can't read, you don't know how to read.

[Elvis]

The book is called. It's called who killed these Girls?

[Karen Kilgariff]

By Beverly Lowry.

[Elvis]

And I think it's new and it's funny because, oh, you know what was happening? I was gonna do that and I have a draft of it. And as I was writing the draft, Emily Gordon texts me and says, have you read who killed these Girls?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who killed these Girls?

[Elvis]

The fucking moment I was typing this shit, I lost my mind. And then I was like, well, I don't want to steal this chick slander, so I'm not gonna. So I'm gonna order it and read it first.

[Karen Kilgariff]

When they. I saw the picture on the Facebook page this morning and the picture of these girls from this time, honeys, it made me well up. It's just like. It's four girls who are just teenage.

[Elvis]

Girls and one was a friend who just wanted to hang out. You know when you go like, you're closing, well, I don't wanna be alone. I'm gonna go hang out with you. All you clothes and I'll fucking fill napkin things or whatever. One girl had to bring her little sister, so her little sister was hanging out there. If you guys don't know about the yogurt shop murders, don't look it up because I'm going to cover it one day.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's.

[Elvis]

It's.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And like heavy in its cold case. It's unsolved.

[Elvis]

But then there's a lot of people. Someone was in prison for it, arrested and jailed and. And confessed to it. I won't say anymore.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Yeah. I want to borrow this when you're done.

[Elvis]

Okay. I just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I just wanted to kind of cite it because it's such a long time, and it is. It's a cold case. I mean, like, whoever went to jail for it is not the person. And.

[Elvis]

And there's such. It's just all of us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's all of us.

[Elvis]

The reason I haven't started reading it yet is because I went to therapy the other day, and I was like, I'm extra depressed lately. And she's like, well, let's think about, like, what are some triggers in your life like, that you do? And I'm like, oh, you mean constantly reading and thinking about murders and crimes and looking at fucking crime scene photos? Like, it's not just for my job.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Elvis]

It depresses me. So this week, I was gonna do a survivor story just to be like, it's okay, but I couldn't find one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Are you kidding me?

[Elvis]

I couldn't find a good one. I was just like, ugh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's not your jam.

[Elvis]

It's not my jam.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's not what you hook into. It doesn't interest you as much.

[Elvis]

I mean, you can never go up from Mary Vincent. What's her name? Mary Vincent.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It is Mary Vincent.

[Elvis]

Yeah. You can't go up from a fucking pregnant woman beating the shit out of a woman trying to steal her baby.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Elvis]

Which you've done in the past. And, motherfucker, that's Sarah Peters. You're so good at remembering things.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I didn't do Mary Vincent just now, though.

[Elvis]

And Mary Vincent who's just. I mean, so I'm not doing one of those. I'm doing a murderer.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that's what most people have tuned in for. Also, I just want to talk about the. Now, I. I just wrote down papini, but are you following that case?

[Elvis]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, yes, you must be. It's a woman who was kidnapped, and they found her on Thanksgiving Day. And it took place up in Redding, California, which is up north of Sacramento.

[Elvis]

Oh, my God. I don't. I know. I've seen the name, but I haven't read about it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They just did a 2020 on it. Oh, there's a mega thread on the Facebook page. It is the craziest case. And the newest thing that I just read this morning is. So it's basically the woman disappears. It's a classic thing of their big signs saying, please Help us clearly. And her husband clearly has to. Then you have to read it. It's just like.

[Elvis]

Because I actually found it. I saw it on. I saw like a. Oh, there's a thread on the Facebook page. Like, this must be a good episode.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

So I found it. And then I read in the thing that, in the conversation, I was like, why are they. Who gives a shit? It's the same thing that always happens. And you know, these photos don't make like. And I was like, fuck this. Then I, I. Okay, her husband killed her. Everyone knows that then. But I didn't realize how recent it was.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She. And she came back. They found her. Oh, she. They found her on the side of the road, chained.

[Elvis]

Is this gone girl? Oh, Allie was telling me about this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. It's the craziest thing. And there's all these additional facts that keep unfolding that are so crazy where it's. It's what everyone was saying in the mega thread, but it's so true. It's like we're just waiting to find out what really happened. It's like we're days away from them going, they just found this clue and here's what's actually going on.

[Elvis]

Because no one wants to be a.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Dick because it's too high heaven. Yes. And everybody's being very kind of aware of that. Like, nobody wants them shame to blame her or point a finger, say you're funny or whatever. But if you watch the 2020, it doesn't feel right. And there is this.

[Elvis]

Do they know it doesn't. Like, can you tell that they know about it not feeling right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's on my dvr, but I haven't watched it yet. But there is. My sister, of course, was telling me word for wor word all about it. And then there is a private detective who showed up and said he had a donation from an anonymous donor to a reward that he was gonna offer from an anonymous donor. And then he kind of started taking over, like, getting in front of everybody, like, hey, here's how it's gonna go. And he spokes. Dude, it's the weirdest. It's just weird, weird, weird. Nothing seems right.

[Elvis]

I wanna say that I could be totally wrong, but I don't buy it. And, you know, I saw a couple minutes of, like, the husband being interviewed.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Elvis]

Yeah. And he doesn't seem right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's going to be very interesting in, like, I think it'll be like a month or less when something is revealed and we're all just gonna go, holy.

[Elvis]

Shit, I Can't wait.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because it doesn't. It just doesn't add up. And there's all these extra things that don't make sense. Sorry, this is a dumb thing to bring up with. I'm not being specific about it.

[Elvis]

No, it's good. People are into it. Let's get Merch Corner out of the way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Elvis]

My favorite murder shirts. And I know everyone was like, why didn't you call it my favorite mercher? And I'm like, because you know what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Everybody has great puns after the fact. You know what I mean?

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You weren't. You weren't there. Yeah. You weren't there when it happened.

[Elvis]

Mentally, I was not there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you. If you. Not you personally. I'm saying them. Like, everybody can think of a great idea when they have seven weeks to think of it.

[Elvis]

Right? I also didn't think this would be a thing. And so I didn't get fucking clever. And I was like, it's not going to be a thing. And people aren't going to understand, and they're not gonna correctly put in good night.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I feel. No, no, stay awake. Because I feel like I didn't think this was gonna be a thing. Is the banner that's waving above this podcast. I love when people, like, tweet criticisms. And I just wanna write back, are you fucking kidding me? Like, you do understand. You understand this is a conversation we're recording.

[Elvis]

Do you know how hurt I would feel if they tweeted that? If we put. If we put. If we tried very fucking hard, like, I'd be like, shit, we did our fucking best.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Then I stayed up for seven days.

[Elvis]

Researching and be like, this state of the art fucking recording studio, but it's my apartment, and sometimes there's fires outside and sometimes my fucking neighbor downstairs is playing World of Warcraft very loudly.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a fucking shit show.

[Elvis]

I mean, it just comes back to go yourself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And the classic Jimmy Pardo quote. Listen or don't. We can't. We can't.

[Elvis]

We just can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And we want to and we won't, but we can't.

[Elvis]

Do we want to?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I. I don't know. Do you want to?

[Elvis]

For some of the people, maybe do. But do they even.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't.

[Elvis]

I don't either. I don't either. Is that okay?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's okay.

[Elvis]

All right. So that's Merch Corner. I guess. This has gone on so long.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, I know. I like that. We were like, should we do this quickly? And we're like, yeah, we're just gonna we're gonna do this quickly. We're gonna get it done. Georgia's got a storytelling show. We're gonna zip, zap, zap.

[Elvis]

We're talkers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No fucking way. Well, I just don't get to see you that much. It's nice to talk to you. Hey.

[Elvis]

Hey. Miss you, Miss you, miss you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, bye.

[Elvis]

Oh, bye. Did you. You had a thing you wanted to tell me?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I started a new job, which I'm super excited about, and it's gonna be super fun. Can't wait to. But I, like, I very cockily told Georgia, I was like, no, this is gonna be easy. And we're gonna be. I'm gonna be able to do even more stuff this time because blah, blah, blah. Well, of course. It's. We just non stop. 10:00am to, like tonight. I got out at, you know.

[Elvis]

Can I be honest? Like, my heart was a little broken when you were like, I'm starting on Monday.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Elvis]

I'm like, ugh, Yeah. I had you for. I had you for two weeks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You did.

[Elvis]

And now we're in a long distance murder relationship again.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're back to having to write Civil war letters to each other.

[Elvis]

We're like each. What's it called when you get custody of a kid? But like, we're together of it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, like co parenting or. No.

[Elvis]

Or when. When you can see a kid sometimes. And it has to be supervised.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Court appointed.

[Elvis]

We're court appointed friends. So, like we. Stephen is our corner court appointed supervisor. That's like you and I get to be together.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right.

[Elvis]

Once a week.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We have to make sure we don't abuse each other.

[Elvis]

Two hours.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No drinking.

[Elvis]

No. Well, hey, no, that's true. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think I can't not work. I can't. I can't.

[Elvis]

You're working. This is a job now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know, I know this is a job. But it. I mean, if anything didn't feel like a job, I would say it's this.

[Elvis]

Oh, no, for sure. Oh, that. Yeah. No, this is. This is so stupid. Like, the fact that I'm like, I'm depressed. What am I. I'm not doing anything. Oh, my God. I have a career called my favorite murder now. It's the best. This is hilarious. It's like the fucking Papini case. I can't wait to see what unfolds. It's gonna be either tragic and we were wrong.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Or everyone's gonna owe everybody an apology.

[Elvis]

Or fucked up and hilarious.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Elvis]

And we were right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

That sounds fun.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, that's kind of always the option, too.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Anyway.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So.

[Elvis]

Murder Time.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And we're back. I'm sorry, I enjoy our banter. I'm sorry that these episodes make me love our podcast. I think it's just really fun to revisit these conversations.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I think people like that about it. Like, there's people who don't listen because of the intro. I totally understand that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Absolutely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But the people who do listen specifically do it, I think, for the intro.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

In addition to. Of the rest of it. I don't know.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

I feel like we are a niche area of true crime where most true crime people want it a certain way. And we're like, we're gonna give it to you with a different sauce. And then there's people who are like, I'd never have that sauce, and how dare you give me that sauce.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's like, absolutely, God bless you.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And then there's the people that are like, this is the sauce I've been waiting for my whole life.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. And the people are like, I like the thing, but can I get the sauce on the side? And then they don't, you know? And like, we totally understand that. Cause they. They still want the thing. And those are the skippers. They're sauce on the side people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're still there.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And also they're kind of visionaries. Because how many things do you skip now? Like, how much time do you spend with your finger on the fast forward thing of almost everything where it's like, plus 30.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Plus 30.

[Elvis]

Plus 30.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

We don't have time for other people's bullshit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also with the sauce analogy, I really.

[Elvis]

Love it because it is like, I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Want the sauce, but I don't want as much as you fucking put on it. I know. I'm just talking about food now, because when I get ex Benedict, I'm like, can you put the hollandaise on the side, please? Because it's drowning. Why is that the. The norm now?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And also, you don't need parsley on top of everything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's just a weird color that you're.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Doing to be like, colorful. But I don't want to eat a bunch of fucking chopped up parsley.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. So maybe those are like the. The semi skippers who like, just are fast forwarding through literally what I'm saying right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, that's right. I like the.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

I bet it's a lot of younger people who are like, we already know what you're gonna say. Just, it's enough of this shit already. Which I'm like, hey, Guess what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I'm saying you fucking never know.

[Elvis]

What we're gonna say.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You really think you were gonna hear about fucking hollandaise on a fucking true crime podcast? I bet you fucking didn't know that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You didn't know I was gonna cry about parsley.

[Elvis]

You didn't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You had no idea.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Also, I just do wanna say, and I'm sorry to be this way, but I saw the joke that I said, which is everybody has great puns after the fact. I really wanna make that a bumper sticker only because people always love to be on social media being like, why didn't you say, you know what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

You should have called it, you know what? Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Easy to do after the fact.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Hard to do in the moment.

[Elvis]

Puns are 2020.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Ow. My therapist saying that maybe listening and reading True Crime constantly isn't great for my mental health.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Not always great.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And a good thing to bring up and tell people where it's like, no one is saying this is always the answer for everybody.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because we run into a lot of people who are like, I had to. I love your podcast. I had to stop listening for a while, but. And that's like, uh, huh.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Totally understood.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

We kind of left our bodies on this podcast as well for a while.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

I believe it was called quarantine. And it was not pretty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Five through nine around. Oh, and then you. Oh, my God, you're talking about the Sherri Papini story. It, like, just came out and I thought the husband did it.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

What a moment. Like those things. And it was almost like the death knell for those People magazine white lady drama, whatever that's called.

[Elvis]

Missing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

The white woman syndrome of the media. And this was really one of the last big ones. And it was so nonsensical from the beginning. And she was so racist from the beginning of like, two Latina women, one short, one tall.

[Elvis]

Right.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

One with dark hair.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Didn't understand what they were saying.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Such bullshit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There is also. There's a Hulu docu series called Perfect Wife. The mysterious disappearance of Sherry Papini. That's really, really good. And so good that I never have to hear about it again. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Where it's like, that's not a story anymore.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Put it to bed.

[Elvis]

Put it to bed.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

They just put it to bed.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

But I'm not. That's not my story. That's just me taking up more time at the top of the show. Like, Skippers Unite is truly. Like, we're almost doing an argument for skippers in this show, we really are.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, this has all been skip material. Now let's start.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Now let's get into the part where the skippers would join us.

[Elvis]

Right, Right.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

It's George's story about Leslie Allen Williams. You know when your timer goes off on your dryer, so you go to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Pull your clothes out, but they're still wet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

They even offer video chat as a benefit to some plans so you can connect with a repair expert and troubleshoot the issue in real time. You can't control when things break down, but you can be prepared.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Elvis]

Goodbye.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

God, I need to learn how to care for plants.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I would love to get this service.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And just have somebody, like teaching me.

[Karen Kilgariff]

As I have like a beautiful tree.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Or plant in my house, like, actually do this today. This is how you don't kill it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When do I water it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What season do I trim it? I don't know and I don't want to ask my mom because then I get a lecture.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Elvis]

Goodbye. Are you first or am I first? Sorry? Are you first or am I first?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, I thought you said something about a horse. I swear to God.

[Elvis]

Are you a horse or am I a horse?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Am I a horse this week?

[Elvis]

I don't remember.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't remember last week at all.

[Elvis]

Steven, we're gonna need you to take notes.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Steven.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, last week. Was that one of yours that I keep thinking about of the babysitter and the children?

[Elvis]

Oh, fuck, that was a rough one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You went. That was first last week, right?

[Elvis]

What was yours?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No idea.

[Elvis]

What the fuck is wrong with us?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I mean, I'm like, I'm about to be put into a home.

[Elvis]

What is wrong with us?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was last year. Lord Lucan. Yeah.

[Elvis]

Oh, Lord Lucan.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That fucking guy. Did you see the people that sent the picture were Lord Lucan and Brad Pitt?

[Elvis]

No. Oh, yes, I saw that one. And I saw someone went and took a photo of the fucking plumber's arms. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Ugh, that was the best. We got two pictures of the plumber's arms, which was the bar that Lord Luke and, I don't know, somebody went to. But then Brad Pitt looks so much like Lord Lucan when he has his Inglourious basterds mustache calling it here first.

[Elvis]

This is gonna become a movie. Brad Pitt's gonna fucking play someone. We deserve royalties.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, we definitely deserve it. We had our hand in this pie. Brad Pitt.

[Elvis]

It felt gross.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It felt gross. But we still want money.

[Elvis]

But we left our hand in there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then it's. That means it's you.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Elvis]

And mine's not super long, but it sucks. Okay. All right. Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

So In May of 1992, 39 year old Leslie Allen. Leslie Allen Williams, it's a dude of Detroit, is arrested when the police find a woman in the trunk of his car. All right, so that's where we're starting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A woman's body.

[Elvis]

Woman. Yes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Deceased.

[Elvis]

Yes. Okay, so no, no, I'm sorry.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, sorry.

[Elvis]

She's alive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm sorry. I immediately started questioning.

[Elvis]

No, you're right to question because I clearly don't know. Let me start over. Okay. In May of 1982, 39 year old Leslie Allen Williams of Detroit is arrested when the police found a woman in the trunk of his car. A live woman.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh huh.

[Elvis]

He's charged with attempted murder, attempted rape and kidnapping. She had just been abducted from a cemetery that was close by. She was visiting her mom's grave. What? Like, can you pick a fucking better time, dude? Like I don't know what a good time to get kidnapped is, but it's not then.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I mean, if you're evil, that's the best time.

[Elvis]

Yeah. Oh man.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, wait till you're at your saddest.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Uh, it's either that or when you're watching Ordinary People. There are a couple times I'm gonna grab you.

[Elvis]

That is the saddest movie.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Or maybe if you're at the pound. Yeah, you and then you just walked out of the pound.

[Elvis]

Post pound kidnappings. That's gonna become the new fucking thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So sad. Ugh.

[Elvis]

That's the new thing or like you're.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In a dressing room trying to pull on pants on tight.

[Elvis]

Oh, I don't. This is why I don't go in dressing rooms. That's not why. But also I don't go in dressing rooms. Fuck that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, I'm just gonna keep thinking of Saddam. And then you go sorry, sorry.

[Elvis]

No, I love it. I know we're missing some good ones. So Leslie Allen Williams, he's a dude again. The first time he was arrested was when he was a teenager and he was convicted of attempted breaking and entering, larceny from an auto, breaking and entering, assault with intent to commit murder, assault and first degree criminal sexual conduct. When He's a fucking. A teenager.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, that's. That was a ton of things.

[Elvis]

Yeah. Do you think he's gonna straighten his life out?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

Nope. Turns out, nope. So in 1983, he pleads guilty to sexual assault with intent to commit kidnapping and assault with intent to sexually penetrate. For a kidnapping committed. Was committed less than two weeks after he's paroled from prison. So the original time he gets prison when he was a teenager, two weeks later, he fucking does all this crazy shit because he's like, I can't control myself.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. He's got out and he's like, what should I do? Pinball?

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He's like, roller skating.

[Elvis]

Rehabilitation works. No, it doesn't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It really doesn't.

[Elvis]

So at that time in 83, he gets a sentence of seven to 30 years. In 1990, after serving seven years, he's paroled. Just the fucking bare minimum.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean.

[Elvis]

Bye. Even though it took two weeks for him to commit. I mean, something that you and I are going to commit in our lifetimes, probably, but not in two weeks.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right?

[Elvis]

You already have a couple of those. Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I don't want to talk about. It's not about what I've done. It's not what I'm guilty of. Like, we're here to point the finger.

[Elvis]

You're so modest. Like, you don't even want to make this about you. And, like, just don't want to.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My beanies.

[Elvis]

You don't want to be more badass than Leslie Allen Williams.

[Karen Kilgariff]

My super long rap sheet.

[Elvis]

Okay. Paroled after seven years. And then. So when he gets caught with this woman in his trunk who's still alive, that's two years after he's paroled. So, like, what was he up to those past two years, Karen?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He probably had like a bit. A bunch of pictures on his wall, and he was connecting pictures with red string.

[Elvis]

Oh, they do that in every fucking detective movie, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, like. But instead of being a detective, he's like the criminal that's really planning stuff out.

[Elvis]

Yeah. Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, right? You wanted a suggestion, didn't you?

[Elvis]

I did. Thank you.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay.

[Elvis]

No, I did. So while he's in prison, he tells reporters that he should be, quote, locked up. And that leads authorities to think that he might be fucking doing. Had done some other crimes. Then his girlfriend, always the fucking girlfriend, was like, you know what? He liked to visit this one rural field near town that maybe you should check that out.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Who visits fields?

[Elvis]

Fucking serial killers who bury bodies right in those fields.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Other than that, it's like, who, what do you?

[Elvis]

Why do you need to go to a field?

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're fine without going to that field. No, unless you're a ghost baseball player, you don't need to be in that field.

[Elvis]

Oh, that's so true. That was good though. I really like that. That was like quick. So, so his girlfriend. So they go to this place and they find the body of 18 year old Cammy Marie Villanova. Villanova. So it's in a field near town, 35 miles northwest of Detroit. They're like, hey, dude, we found this body in this place you like to hang out. And he was like, well, shit, I did it. So he confesses and then he leads investigators to the bodies of Michelle urban, who was 16, and her 14 year old sister Melissa. They were originally thought to be runaways because that's what 14 year olds do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Elvis]

He tells them that he had stalked the sisters in their town of Heartland, it's another suburb of Detroit. He. He used to break into homes there and he used to break into homes of women he met in his therapist's office.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What? He went to therapy?

[Elvis]

Clearly. Yeah, he went to therapy. This is why I never talk to anyone in the waiting rooms of therapy offices. And because I hate everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, also, what do you talk about?

[Elvis]

I mean, how's it going?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Have you been crying? I've been crying also. It just makes me mad when you, when we tell these stories to each other and it's like the. You list off all these shitty things someone's done. It's like. And his girlfriend. So you can just date really easily.

[Elvis]

Not even his ex girlfriend, like his current girlfriend.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Relationship he's having with another adult.

[Elvis]

Probably lives together. She probably like kicks him down for a Diet Cokes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Elvis]

Right in the.

[Georgia Hardstark]

At the least.

[Karen Kilgariff]

At the very least.

[Elvis]

At the very least.

[Karen Kilgariff]

She's making that son of a. Casseroles.

[Elvis]

Honey, I hope you're happy. Now I don't mean that I hope you're fucking happy. I mean like I hope you're happy. I truly hope she's happy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Better things have happened.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Elvis]

Wishing her well. What is it that the south people say where they say bless her heart.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bless her heart.

[Elvis]

I always say wishing her well. Okay. Dah dah dah. He stalks them. After he had broken into homes of women he had met his therapist often. Fucking awesome. That makes me feel really great and safe. And he started stalking these girls and he had been peeping at them. He saw them eight times over several days while casing houses to rob. Fuck. He said he was sexually attracted to the way Melissa, the younger sister, walked. No, that's not yours to be seriously attractive.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's. You have a problem. It's not the way she walks.

[Elvis]

You're not allowed to be sexually attracted to something that someone doesn't want you to be. You know what I mean? Does that make any sense?

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's a nice concept, but it doesn't work that way.

[Elvis]

Great. Okay, so armed with a three inch pocket knife, he confronts the girls by jumping from some bushes and he puts them in the trunk of his car, rapes them, suffocates them within an hour of kidnapping them.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh God, their dad. This guy's just on a fucking. Lesley's a berserker. He's just like, only wants to do bad things all the time.

[Elvis]

Well, he's like, I. I had two weeks before. Who knows how long I'm gonna have before? But it's like, well, don't do it then. Don't do it. Like you got.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He can't. He clearly, clearly can't. This is what he wants to do. He decides to go to therapy and have a relationship.

[Elvis]

Fucking asshole. He drives to the Oakland Cemetery, Oakwood Cemetery in Fenton, and dumps the girls in a shallow grave that he had fucking made before. Yeah. Okay then. So the next victim is Cynthia Jones. She's 16, she's found near Milford, which you'll never remember this, but my husband Vince Averill is from Milford with that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Terrible story of those two girls, an.

[Elvis]

Equally awful story of a fucking. Two sweet girls getting murdered in a park in Milford. Just so happens there's another girl from Milford. So in January, she and her boyfriend Luke were confronted inside Luke's park car in Milford, which is Michigan Central Park. So they're fucking parked, making out, and you're like, I'm safe. I'm with a guy, everything's fine. It's like there's two of us. Like buddy up. Nope. They were told he needed their car because he had just robbed a store. So he's like trying to get their car. He escorts them both at knife point into the woods, ties Luke to a tree and takes off with Cindy. He drives an hour to his apartment and he rapes and tortures her for a few hours. Then took her to Buno Road in Milford where he had a pre dug. Actually, I'm sorry, that was a pre dug grave. Four foot grave. Stabs her, rapes her, puts her unclothed body inside the grave. Did I ask Vince about this? Yes, I did. And what he remembers, did he know? Yeah. Here's what he said. Well, to be fair, he's the one who told me to do this story. So I said, what do you remember about this? This is crazy. Just that her boyfriend got shit because he came up on them in the park and tied him up and took her. People wanted to know why he didn't do anything. We were in 11th grade.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's so awful.

[Elvis]

So he was in class with her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

In school with her and the boyfriend. People were saying that to the boyfriend?

[Elvis]

Yeah, that's fucking awful. That's what he remembers. And then he asked his friend Dan about and he said he doesn't know if it came from court or he just remembered this, that the guy had Cynthia for a while before he killed and raped her repeatedly and would tell her he'd let her go if she just let him each time.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, man.

[Elvis]

So that's what he remembers, probably from the trial. Milford, Fuck. And it's like, I've been there. It's like a charming little suburb. Suburb. So all three of the girls as well as. As well as the original on Ms. Villanueva, they disappeared on weekends between September 14th and January 2nd. That's four fucking women then. And then he said to state police detectives, I don't wanna cause any trouble. I don't wanna cause taxpayers any grief. I wanna be locked up. Lock me up so I don't do it again. I have no control over my life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Holy shit.

[Elvis]

I know. So his last sentencing had been in 1983 when he threatened to abduct a woman and he released her unharmed. So he got a shit ton of breaks from the justice system, getting light sentences, early paroles after guilty pleas on a bunch of charges of breaking and entering, rape and assault since 1971. So multiple fucking breaks from rape. Like you're like, okay, breaking and entering, fucking like that just shows you how. How much fucking women's bodies meant back then. Rape and assault. So he gets sentenced everything. And Detroit goes crazy because they're like, how the did this happen? And they want to hold all the parolee of parole board members accountable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Whoa.

[Elvis]

Yeah. So they draft a legislation to make the panel. The panel more accountable. They got expanded. They could only serve three year terms appointed by the corrections director, and they could have them removed from the parole board. And it went crazy. And this is kind of why the Detroit or Michigan prison system is so full, is because you can't parole people anymore. Wow. So easily.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's like really hard to get paroled ever again. Wow.

[Elvis]

Yeah. So it's hard to get Paroled, so they're fucking crowded to shit, okay? Also, there's a war on drugs and there shouldn't be. Okay, and then.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Then.

[Elvis]

So he's. He's 62 years old now. He's serving multiple life sentences in the Carson City Correctional Facility in Michigan. Hope you don't live there, everyone. We're not doing a show there, please. So then, in July 2000, a local woman shares this memory she had from 1976. She says she's the one that got away and hoped her story would enlighten everyone to trust their instincts. She said she was followed by a man stalked before stalking laws were in place, which everyone thinks back that there was not stalking laws in place for so long. For so long. Even now they're light in a lot of places, right? And he captures her, manages to get away with her mom, and they report the police. There was nothing they could do because he hadn't committed a crime. Oh, so he was aggressively stalking her.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He kidnaps her.

[Elvis]

But I don't know if he kidnapped her. He didn't kidnap.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh. Oh, sorry.

[Elvis]

No, I'm sorry. No, I'm the one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, I am.

[Elvis]

In the end, she wrote, it's human nature to assume that things like this happen to someone else somewhere else. I'm here to say that it can happen to you and it can happen here. I grew up in a small town called Fenton, Michigan, and the man that chased me was Leslie Allen Williams. Are you willing to go on assuming that this can't happen to you?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, so. So he chased her, and then her mom showed up and she got away in chase.

[Elvis]

But he had been aggressively stalking her before that. And the cops were like, well, he didn't commit a crime. He didn't. Once he stabs you, let us know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Fuck.

[Elvis]

And then we'll give him two years in prison.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, that and, yeah, that's why those. The people that got those stalking laws. I mean, there's like, TV movies about it where it's just like. It's gone on for so long and it's basically like, well, we can't do.

[Elvis]

Anything I'm terrified of. Have you ever been stalked?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Elvis]

I had a creep. One creep once, but it wasn't like aggressive stalking. It's just like a place I worked at that this person would, like, show up a lot. This is why. Again, like, why isn't attempted murder tried more harshly? They attempted to murder someone and they didn't do it. So you're only going to give them a quarter of the time they would have gotten.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We can't keep talking about this.

[Elvis]

Yes, we can. And we can change things, and we will change the law.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But you. But the law you want to change. You want attempted murder be changed into murder?

[Elvis]

No, I want it to be fucking. I want it to be harsher sentences.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, well. But all around. I mean, I agree with you in that way. And we are reading stories from sometimes that are from like, 20, 30 years ago, where it almost just is a cultural attitude where it's like, that's fine, or they'll go to jail. It'll change. And there is that thing of like, yes, rape is a. You know, there was. There was a man who. I think this was a story that was tweeted. It was a pedophile. He was arrested and given 522 years in jail. So it's like, I think we are catching up to this idea that we want to ensure that these people don't hurt people anymore. But the idea that it was set up so that this man was harsher on himself than the parole board on him. He was saying, please lock me up. Please take this seriously. I mean, that's crazy.

[Elvis]

Yeah. Fucked up. And that Vince knew one of the fucking.

[Karen Kilgariff]

The idea that that guy got shit for basically being a victim.

[Elvis]

It wasn't even. Like, people suspected him. You know what I mean? Like, you know how that happens. Like, oh, we think it was the boyfriend. It wasn't even. Like, it was worse than that because you could never be proven otherwise. Like, it's not like they caught the killer. It wasn't me. And everyone is like, sorry. It's like, no, you fucking suck because you didn't do anything.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You didn't do anything.

[Elvis]

When it's like, you don't know what the situation is. Like, well.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also, if your life is being threatened, you can't do anything. That's just people really mismanaging their own anxiety and being like, I'll blame you. This is the easiest thing to do.

[Elvis]

Like, this wouldn't have happened to me because of this other thing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right, Exactly. It's like, yeah, you're trying to make yourself feel better by going, if I was in that situation, I would have been able to take care of it. Therefore, you are at fault when it's like. Like, I don't think so. No, that's. And what an awful thing to do to another person.

[Elvis]

Yeah. No, dude. Nah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Hey, did you get your hair cut?

[Elvis]

I cut my hair over my sink tonight.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It was really cute.

[Elvis]

Does it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. I'm sorry. Because I Was thinking about that part of the time. Thank you. But it's a really good shape.

[Elvis]

It's not like a mom, Bob, though.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Is it not? It's actually Super 20s. That's why I was very distracted by it.

[Elvis]

Cause I keep thinking I look like I would like be a mom in a minivan commercial. You know what I mean?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No. It has really good angles.

[Elvis]

Okay, thank you. I cut it myself. I went to three months of beauty school.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is the way that I offset my anxiety about hearing about terrible things.

[Elvis]

Yeah. I want everyone to know that we are not terrible people. This is us lightening the load of fucking pressing anxiety.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If you think we're terrible because we talk about hair. Eff it.

[Elvis]

Stop. Then you can listen or you can't. What was it?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Listen or don't, Right?

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Okay, we're back. Any updates for this story, Georgia?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I mean, one personal update. I was sitting next to Vince while I was studying this rewind episode. And I was like, I had completely forgotten that he knew the victim, Cynthia Jones. 16 year old Cynthia Jones and her boyfriend Luke, who had been confronted with. With Cynthia. He, like, knew them, knew them, like went to school with them throughout and said he was a really nice guy. And then also I was like, did people say shit to him about it? He's like, all I remember is that our coach. Cause he was like on a team with him. Coach came into the locker room at one point when he wasn't there and said, nobody better say shit to him about not having, you know, done something to defend her because it's just as impossible. And thank God that coach said that back then and knew it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Jesus.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

For real? That's like such an incredible empathetic awareness. I wonder if he came up with that on his own as a coach and just like being a good person or if some crisis counselor was like, here's what you need to say.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, Vince had some fucked up shit happen in this, like, sweet little town. It's so crazy.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And as for the story, we talked about how Leslie Allen Williams kept getting early release and parole before he was caught for these murders. And I said how. How it eventually led to legislation changes and is now part of the reason why the Michigan prison system is so full. Well, according to the Council on Criminal Justice, Michigan's average prison sentence length is roughly three times the national average.

[Elvis]

Whoa. I know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the state leads in the proportion of its prison population serving sentences longer than 10 years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Second Look Sentencing act is a proposed legislation that would allow those who have served at least 20 years, years to petition their original court for a sentence reduction. And anyone approved would still serve the remainder of their reduced sentence and be subject to parole review before release. And that would hopefully combat the outdated and rigid sentencing system and recognize that excessively long sentences often outlive their purpose and fail to reflect personal transformation. But those convicted of criminal sexual conduct, terrorism, mass shootings, and certain domestic violence cases would be ineligible. And then, finally, Leslie Allen Williams remains in prison to this day.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Huh.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Should we get to your story? That should be three episodes, but we didn't really know a lot about it.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

I gotta say this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I was like, oh, shit, this is.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

This episode where I so clearly am like. It's like getting called in front of the class and being like, karen, would.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You like to give your oral report.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

On the book you were supposed to read? And it's like, crack, crack, crack my knuckles. And just be like, I was gonna do this, and then I did this. But it's a very upsetting to me. Like, here's the thing, if you're gonna start a podcast, just quick reminder, it's forever. So what you are recording is forever. You will be held to account if people pay enough attention. And this was a real me having maybe two jobs at that time and trying to get my homework done and just not getting it done. So thinking I could be conversational about these cases. I knew facts about the Letterman stalker to kind of hold that up.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the idea that I was gonna.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Try to improvise through talking about Israel Keys, who is one of the most prolific serial killers in America, is such a green, ridiculous thing. So.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But we know that now. We didn't really know at the time. And, yeah, this is like, just shows how far we've come. Now this is 2016 still, when we're fucking brand new babies at the. And making it up as we go.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Along, as Bradford likes to say about.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Bradford Broleski, who works in our legal department. You were building the plane as you were flying in. And that is absolutely. It's as scary and as accurate.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The railroad tracks were being literally placed in front of our big mouth train.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And I was literally, like, coming to a point in my writing career that I had been working toward for literally 10 years.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then it was like, you gotta quit that.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And it's like, how am I gonna do this? It was wild.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

So anyway, not to make excuses, whatever. Listen, with a grain of salt and with this, you know, with my full apologies of the casualness of the Israel Keys part It's truly like saying, let me just synopsize for you in five minutes what's in the New York City Library. We're just like, good luck, dummy. What are you doing?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why would you do this?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Because we're us. Let's do it. Let's get into Karen's story.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Elvis]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye. Now that it's my time. Okay to shine.

[Elvis]

Go Karen.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This is not gonna be good.

[Elvis]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I made this mistake. Here's. I'll walk you through my mistake, please. I started going into very deeply researching a woman named Mary Margaret Ray. And she was David Letterman's stalker for years in the 80s. And it is a story that has fascinated me forever because she, she was obsessed with David Letterman. She would break into his house, she would steal his car, she would get pulled over speeding in his car and tell the cops that she was Mrs. David Letterman and let. They would let her go.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

How did he.

[Elvis]

How did she get in their house?

[Karen Kilgariff]

This was back when there were again. This is the time where like he, I'm sure he like locked the front door or whatever. And then she would be like, I need to get into that house and make it happen. She would leave presents for him inside the house. One time he was in bed with his girlfriend watching TV and they looked up and she was standing in the hallway. Oh my God. Yes. And. But here's the mistake that they made because nobody knew anything about stalking and all the psychology of it. He would talk about it on the TV show.

[Elvis]

So she got all this attention and she was like positive reinforcement.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, and the, the thing that she had, she had schizophrenia and it's a very sad story. Of course, once I started looking into it, it's a incredibly sad story because she had it, and so did two of her brothers and so did her father. So it's just.

[Elvis]

You got no chance.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, it's so rough. And it's the classic thing of. She would start taking her medication, get better, and think she didn't need medication anymore.

[Elvis]

That's. Everyone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's. Everybody does that. I'm better now.

[Elvis]

Even if she wasn't schizophrenic, she still was fucked, you know, by that many. I mean, not that everyone is, but, like, you're gonna have some fucking issues.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, because schizophrenia, they believe, is very genetic.

[Elvis]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And so, yeah, it's. It's. It's very difficult. And in that family, it's like that. I mean, that's just such a sad story.

[Elvis]

I mean, I. Oh, honey. But, like, you know. Yeah, it's just an interesting thing that you have to look at everyone's life. Like, everyone's kind of a victim and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

A fucking and a fetal and like, it's easy for. We. It's the thing I love the most about this podcast is we just get to say our opinion. We're not obviously not experts, obviously.

[Elvis]

Oh, wait, you're not an expert?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, I mean, I do know how to cut and paste from Wikipedia. So, yes, I am an expert in that way. But, yes, everybody has. There's backstory and context to everything, you know. But anyway, the thing was, he would talk about it, like, there was a bit. He would call his house and then go, oh, good, no one's home, and hang it. He would do things like that on the show. But she not only had schizophrenia, but she had a thing called erotomania, which is a delusional disorder where you believe that another person is in love with you. And usually it's applied to someone of higher status or someone famous.

[Elvis]

No, I have that with you, Vince. Yeah, no, I get it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That guy. I have it with Elvis.

[Elvis]

Elvis and Vince.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They totally love you so much.

[Elvis]

Yeah, so.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But the problem is that in the delusion, they think that the secret admirer is declaring their affection through special glances, signals, telepathy, or messages through the media.

[Elvis]

Like on your fucking talk show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then he's actually. Actually doing it.

[Elvis]

Didn't anyone tell him?

[Karen Kilgariff]

No one knew. They didn't know how to, like that. How to handle this situation.

[Elvis]

That's such a man thing to do in my mind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it's also just an uneducated, like, at the Time. People were like, peeping Toms are funny.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You know, he just really likes you. Yes. Stalkers are like, he's so nice to you. Don't friend zone him.

[Elvis]

Totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What did you.

[Elvis]

What did you do to make him stalk you? That kind of.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly. Why are you wearing short skirts if you don't want a stalker? And the thing that. When I found out this part, because I was insanely obsessed with Letterman when I was growing up, I used to go to bed and this when I was like 12 and 13, and I would get back up at 12:30 and go pull the chair really close to the TV. Holy shit. And watch Letterman from 12:30 to 1:30 every night.

[Elvis]

So you were kind of the stalker too. I. I also was a slave.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But I just. What was happening on that TV was like, there's this other world out there that I can't believe exists that I want to be a part of so bad, where it's like Chris Elliott popping up as the man underneath the stairs type of stuff where you're like, none of this entertainment is on my normal daytime tv.

[Elvis]

I love it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So it was very exciting. So I kind of like, was like, yeah, I get why she's. She wants to go to his house and drive his car, say she's married to him.

[Elvis]

He's the one. Only that's the only talk show I could ever fucking stand.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Because he wasn't doing normal talk show things and he was so insanely rude. So it devolved. She actually eventually kind of went off him and started stalking an ex astronaut. But it was just all step down. Yes, exactly.

[Elvis]

David Letterman was like, what?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, he's like, bitch. Eventually, though, and this is the worst part, because she knew her life was that she was just out of control. She killed herself by kneeling in front of a train.

[Elvis]

No.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when I heard that the first time, I was just like, it's so awful. It's so like. It's so insanely sacrificial. It's so symbolic or something. And she wrote her mother a letter saying she was gonna do it, saying, I wanna die in the Valley. That. And she did it some. I can't remember. Somewhere in, like in. Somewhere in Montana, I think, or something. It's just such a dramatic story. Anyway, I did all this work and research and then by the end realized, well, that's not a murder. That's a very sad story of extreme mental illness and suicide. And then I was like, oh. So then I had to start over.

[Elvis]

Oh, wait, so you're starting now?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So, no, I'm starting, but this will be fast.

[Elvis]

No, I'm kidding.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. Because you're like, I have a show.

[Elvis]

So now you're starting.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, so you're gonna do two murders. This is the thing. And I just. I guess I wanted to say all that because that's what I'm interested in. And that was a fascination that I had. A person that is a female stalker is a fascinating concept that almost never happens.

[Elvis]

I like that we can do this because sometimes I'll find these crazy stories and be like, but there's no murder. But like, fuck, it's fucked up, right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

I think we should talk about those.

[Elvis]

Maybe we should change the fucking title of the podcast.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, let's change this whole concept.

[Elvis]

We really painted ourselves into a corner.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Let's. Stephen, Erase what we've done so far.

[Elvis]

Erase the past 45 episodes.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So this is what I did. And this will just be the fasty. Because this is actually super fast. So it's equally fascinating, but it's almost like inverted opposite. It's a shorty.

[Elvis]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's the story of the insane serial killer Israel Key. He's the guy. Did you ever see that movie the Minus Man? Starring what his name? Owen Wilson? And it's basically a guy that just kind of goes around, really nice, chill guy traveling from town to town, killing people randomly and leaving town. That's basically so Israel Keith. They don't know that much about him. And he killed people from 2001 to 2012.

[Elvis]

What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he went, literally, he worked as a contractor in Alaska. And he would take that money and then he also would rob banks and he would take all that money and he would buy plane tickets so that he could go and. And to random cities, rent cars and go murder somebody.

[Elvis]

And they wouldn't be connected.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Nothing would be connected. And then they would just go to a different city.

[Elvis]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so fucking crazy. And so it's almost like it doesn't even scare me because it's beyond. Like, it's just beyond. It's almost like he was. He has a look like you can see his mug shot online. And he looks like a dude that would be in like a North Face catalog. Like, he's. He's young and kind of cute and he looks very like sporty, like a little weather worn.

[Elvis]

But like in a hot fucking rugged way.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes. Like he looks like a guy that would be on a hiking trail, like.

[Elvis]

One of the ages of the sexiest man alive in the Dos Equis commercials when he's like 30 something. Am I getting this right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the sexiest man alive is into camping. This is this guy. Oh, also. And murder. So he. And he would do that. He would go to remote places. So he would go to hiking trails. He would go to like, national fucking parks. It's the national park fucking. This is the national park guy. So he would go into these places and then just like, just steal one person. It's easy. Yes, easy. And take them torture, rape, murder, whatever, bury their body somewhere and then just move on. And he would pre plan it. It so he had. Okay, so I. I'll just read you. I have so. And I got a lot of this from this. Awesome. It's just an FBI press release where they just said, here's everything we know. If you know anything, please call us.

[Elvis]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're so.

[Elvis]

They're like, how?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because when they finally arrested him.

[Elvis]

Oh, God. He got arrested.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They. They arrested him. They got him to talk a little bit, and then he committed suicide in jail. Fucking dick. So they knew. They know for a fact that he killed 11 people. They can like patch it all back.

[Elvis]

It's never that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so many more. Because the amount of planning that went into these things is super crazy because he would bury caches all around the country. So they were basically like kill kits with money in them.

[Elvis]

What?

[Karen Kilgariff]

So they.

[Elvis]

Oh, so he could go there and be like, here's my kill kit.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yep. But he wouldn't be traveling with it.

[Elvis]

Right.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So if a cop pulled him over and he had a rental car and he was in Arizona, the cop would be like, oh, it's a dude in a rental car. You're speeding. Knock it off. It. No. At no time was there like, what's that? Duffel bag or whatever.

[Elvis]

I mean, if you're going to be that, like. What's the word? Organized and dedicated. Dedicated. Like just be a coder or something. Like get a job. Like, be a normal.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I know.

[Elvis]

Why do you. Why do you have to dedicate that?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Why do you have people.

[Elvis]

Don't be a dick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I got to be bad. Yeah, he's got to be bad. This guy said. Apparently when he got. Got out of the army. So he was like. He got kicked out of the house when he was 17, and his parents, who used to be Amish and then joined some weird. One of the articles said it was like a cultish church in Wells, Texas.

[Elvis]

Oh, like the Amish. Like, similar to the Amish cult.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, but they like build nice things and they like, you know, they have that. Have you ever seen that area? That space heater that they make? It's really nice. Come on. Well, anyway, he got kicked out of the house, and his parents told his siblings, you're not allowed to talk to him anymore. Which I want to know what the hell happened.

[Elvis]

But he molested everyone. Like, everyone in town.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He was just like, super rude at Thanksgiving, one of the two. But. So he told the FBI that he had buried some of those caches. So, sorry, I was gonna say he went into the army for a while while he got dis.

[Elvis]

Membered.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Disbarred from the army.

[Elvis]

Dishonorably discharged.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Discharged. That's right. Dishonorably. No, he just regularly discharged. But he told people that he was in the army with. I can't wait to get out of the army so I can kill a bunch of people.

[Elvis]

Cool. Super chill.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Super like, oh, do you want to go get a beer later? Okay. No, that's cool. Because you want to go kill people, so.

[Elvis]

Oh, that is real. Always joking around, you know that guy is real.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So apparently he has these caches buried in. The FBI actually went and found there was one in Eagle River, Alaska, and there was one near Blake Falls Reservoir in New York. And then they also. Oh, he admitted to burying them in Green River, Wyoming.

[Elvis]

And this is why I have a metal detector.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And Port Angeles, Washington.

[Elvis]

Okay. And we're doing tours there. All those places.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Go find a cache. That'd actually be like a new geocaching. But you're actually trying to find Israel Keys caches with geocaching.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He didn't know any of his victims prior to their abductions. He described several remote locations that he frequented to look for them. Parks, campgrounds, trails, cemeteries, boating areas. And he frequented prostitutes during his travels.

[Elvis]

Sex workers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, Sex workers. And it is unknown at this time if he met any of his victims in this manner, of course, because they don't really know who the victims are.

[Elvis]

Jesus.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he indicated to the FBI that his victims are male and female in range and age from teens to elderly. That.

[Elvis]

See, when they're. When they get that fucking non specific, they're fucking out of there. Like, that's crazier. Right?

[Karen Kilgariff]

He wants to kill everybody.

[Elvis]

Just wants to kill people.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He just wants to kill everybody. Okay. So his murders occurred in less than 10 states, but he didn't tell them all the locations. So basically the. He just was doing. He was kidnapping people in one state and taking them across state lines intentionally to kill them in a different state.

[Elvis]

Because then they would. Wouldn't be missing people, they wouldn't be connected to missing.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's right. So they find a body in Kansas and they don't know anything because the person is missing from whatever state is next to Kansas. How would I know? I only have like a seventh grade education.

[Elvis]

We are the best fucking podcasters that I've ever podcasted.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For real. Oh, also, it says here he would kidnap them in one state, murder them in a second state, dispose of their bodies in a fast state.

[Elvis]

Why that middle. Middleman?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because he just wants to keep it clean. Because he wants to be able to keep doing it no matter what, which he did for years until.

[Elvis]

Oh, no. Keep going. Sorry. I'm not trying to lead you alone.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He also burglarized 20 to 30 homes and he committed arson to cover up the homicides. So it's just everything. He's just throwing it all. It's a. It's a casserole of bad things. Okay. He starts in 1997. His first victim was a girl who was inner tubing down the Deschutes river in Oregon.

[Elvis]

And Steven's ears just.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stephen knows where that is.

[Elvis]

Oh, my mom lives in Bend right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, so that's on. Is that on the Jesuits?

[Elvis]

We don't know.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah, it's a girl between 14 and 18 years old who was tubing. He takes her off of her inner tube, pulls her into the woods, sexually assaults her, puts her back on the inner tube and puts her on. And she never reported it.

[Elvis]

Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So the only reason they even know this happened is because he told them it happened.

[Elvis]

You think you know what you know? One of the safest places I would think are on an inner tube in the middle of a fucking lake with your front. With your front. And he. Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, there's the word. Discharged. In 2001, he was discharged from the US Army. Then from 2001, July to October, he resided in Neah Bay, Washington. And there he committed his first homicide. But they don't know who or where he killed. He just said that's where he did it.

[Elvis]

Wow.

[Karen Kilgariff]

From 2001 to 2005, he murdered. This is all him telling the FBI he murdered an unidentified couple in Washington. He refused to tell them if the couple was married, what their relationship to one another was. So it's actually not a couple, it's just two people.

[Elvis]

This makes me so sad.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And they don't know if they were residents of Washington's tourist or residents he abducted from another state and brought over.

[Elvis]

I Don't know why it's like, worse for me when they're unidentified. Because it's just like, you just know that there are so many people suffering. Suffering and wondering and waiting and that don't have answers. Yeah, I mean, it's devastating when you do, but at least you're able to contend with it.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're dealing with facts and instead of any possible thing. So it's like he really did want as many people to suffer as possible. 2005 to 2006, in the summer to fall months, he admitted he committed two murders independent of one another. He used his boat to dispose of the bodies of these victims. And he stated that at least one of the bodies was disposed of in Crescent Lake in Washington, where he used anchors to submerge the body.

[Elvis]

Oh, my God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he said it was submerged in more than 100ft of water and that he moved their cars a distance between where the vehicles were found and where the crime occurred, and he didn't say who the people were. So basically it sounds like when the FBI's interviewing him, he's just kind of giving them the very most basic things.

[Elvis]

That might even not be true. True.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. And that now you go run and try to figure this out.

[Elvis]

Yeah, good luck with that.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then he drives from Washington state to Anchorage, Alaska, where he lives until his arrest. So from 2007 till 2012, how do you get arrested? It's at the bottom of this list. Look, I'm gonna be honest. It's at the bottom of this list. Oh, I know what it is. It's. He murdered an old couple in Vermont, and it got a bunch of press, and it was one another one of his super random things. Oh, no, I'm sorry. That got. They were like in the press a bunch, but then he stole the ATM card of one of his victims. And then when he went to his sister's wedding in Wells, Texas, he started using the atm, and they got onto the stolen ATM cards being used. Used. And they got him there.

[Elvis]

What a rookie move.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But it also sounds like after this much time, like 11 years of just constant random.

[Elvis]

I'm never gonna get caught.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Catch me. Or he's like, I can't do this anymore. There might have been a part of him that's just like, I don't want to do this anymore. Maybe because even. Even something great and fun, after 12 years, you're like, ah, I don't know. You know what I mean?

[Elvis]

Yeah, this is getting good. Morning.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So then it just. Basically, the rest of this fucking thing is a list of cities and very vague crimes and people.

[Elvis]

Ugh. That they can't.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And when I was reading it, and it goes on and on, and there's a Reddit thread that the person is like, updated on this date in green, updated on this date in purple. So they just keep on finding details. And it literally is. He bought a Southwest ticket from Anchorage, Alaska to San Diego. He walked on foot into Tijuana. He was there for two days, walked on foot back, took a Southwest flight to Tempe, Arizona. And it's this stuff where you're just.

[Elvis]

Well, he has this pattern, like with the inner tubing girl of just grabbing them and dragging him to the woods. Not like, oh, you know, the person who disappeared, we saw her talking to a shaggy haired dude in a bar. It's not like she's. He's like, he's taking them home and like, you know, pretending to have a relationship with them. He's fucking dragging. Like there's no connection.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right. They never saw this person before. They don't. They probably never saw him coming. Like, it's a place where people wouldn't be like, if it's a trailhead snatched and then he's there and gone.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Also in the list, as I'm reading it, he was in Santa Rosa, which is the town above Petaluma.

[Elvis]

God.

[Karen Kilgariff]

There's a whole part where he's in Napa Valley. He's all. He went on a, like a whole.

[Elvis]

Like a wine tour.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Wine tour, honey. Up in Northern California. And the whole thing is like that where I just, I started thinking about that where I got super scared. I saw he flew into the Oakland airport, he rented a car, he drove up to Napa. Then he stayed for like one night in one of those whiny hotels. Then he drove to Santa Rosa where. And I'm looking at the years, like, my God, what year? And was there anybody missing and doing that?

[Elvis]

Oh my God, yeah, totally. And.

[Karen Kilgariff]

But then as I read the rest of the list, it's like. And you could do that with every location across America.

[Elvis]

But I wonder if he did.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, no, he did.

[Elvis]

But why can't we find them?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Find what?

[Elvis]

The people that are dead and.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Because they don't even know. It's like, there's the missing persons for, say, Tempe, Arizona in 2007.

[Elvis]

He did it all.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, they don't know. He could have done one. He could have done them all. He could have just gone there, drank wine in Napa and left. He's that like. And whatever he was doing. He had his cash thing.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He never. Nobody ever saw him. He didn't go somewhere to buy a knife.

[Elvis]

Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He had money. If something happened and they were like, you know, he ran out of money, he would have a cash nearby where there was, like, bills waiting, buried underground.

[Elvis]

He's the fucking best boy scout in the world. Who's also a fucking dick.

[Karen Kilgariff]

If a boy scout went fucking nuts, just like, had to rub that stick to try to make that fire. And just snapped and was like, you know what?

[Elvis]

Fuck this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm going to be the devil walking on earth.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

For 11 years.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And it's just. It's so random that. That's the other thing I realized that this sucks because there's no specific storyline or even like, any. Anybody. Cause it's all just like. And then he probably killed one random person. Like, he's the one that. There was. I don't know if you ever heard about that. There were the two kids that were spending the night on the beach in San Francisco and they just got shot. And they almost got.

[Elvis]

I almost did that one. But it's just such a weird.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They think it's him.

[Elvis]

Totally was him.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They do think that it's him because it's the kind of thing where when that murder came out, there's no connection.

[Elvis]

It makes no fucking sense. There's nothing left behind.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're Christian camp kids who. Who are trying to just have a camp out one night on the beach for fun. And they both get shot in the head execution style. But there's no way they have anything attached to a drug dealer or there's no reason.

[Elvis]

None.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And he's the guy that's the no reason murderer.

[Elvis]

Because that doesn't make any. There should be a pattern to killers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Exactly.

[Elvis]

And if you don't have one, then you're probably less likely to get comfortable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Right.

[Elvis]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so crazy.

[Elvis]

It's so crazy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And also it goes on and on. And then at the end of this thing, there's a whole chunk called additional murders. And so it's like he gave additional details regarding the abduction and the murder of a female described as having pale skin, possibly having a wealthy grandmother driving an older car. That's you. Oh, my God. It's that. There's just a bunch of shit.

[Elvis]

What a controlling shit thing to do. And then you're like, you know how I'm gonna get out of this? Kill myself?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Cause I'm sure that the interviewers were.

[Elvis]

Like, okay, we're starting to get this.

[Karen Kilgariff]

We're starting this up. We're asking him these questions.

[Elvis]

We're gonna bring in Billy Bob. He's fucking great at getting shit out of people. Like, you know, like, we're gonna do.

[Karen Kilgariff]

This and we're gonna start really putting some of this stuff together. And with the information he's giving them, he's saying, I can tell you everywhere I was. I can give you all these details and then. But. Bye, goodbye. I'm not actually going to.

[Elvis]

Like, what a controlling.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Insane. So if you. To me, this is like built for web sleuths.

[Elvis]

Yeah, it's so totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's so perfect. But I mean, it just goes on and on. But if you go on there and you see if you know of a missing person or some kind of murder case, it's a really good, good comparison, I guess Chart. Because you have the years and you do have vague descriptions. You can. They say if you have information, you can call the FBI at 1-800- call FBI.

[Elvis]

No, it isn't. Yeah, that's not enough. 1-800- see, that's not enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

C, A, L, that's three. L, F, B, O. That's four.

[Elvis]

Fuck.

[Karen Kilgariff]

They're not going to give you not enough numbers.

[Elvis]

But what is wrong with my brain that I. That call was like, that's three letters.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I love it. But you're the one that's gonna figure that out. You're like, you know what? The FBI is us over right now.

[Elvis]

That doesn't lead anywhere. That's not enough.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Another mystery.

[Elvis]

Oh, my God. What a idiot.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, I.

[Elvis]

What is wrong with my. You know what? This naturopath is gonna hear me because clearly I got some issues.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's. I feel like the Israel Key Keys case is one where. Basically what I'm saying is go look up the name Israel Keys because it'll freak your shit out. Yeah, but there's not. I'm sure there's plenty more to say and we'll hear about all of it. But that's as much as I. I.

[Elvis]

Mean, like, that's ridiculous because you do certain things. Like, as someone who's very aware of that murders happen and, you know, I do certain things. Like when I use my credit card at a. What are they called? A meter. Yeah, a parking meter. I'm like, here's a. This is another trace as to where I was that day. Like, in case something happens, you know, or like I go into a liquor store and the camera's here. It'll show me going to the liquor store that day. But it's like if that's not. If you can't track someone else having followed you, or like between this parking meter and something else. Like if there's just snatch and fucking grab.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Well, yeah, because he's not gonna grab you at a parking meter or in a liquor store. No, he's gonna. He's going to grab the person that decided to go on a, a, a nice nature walk by themselves.

[Elvis]

Don't do it, you guys. Why would you do that? Not even by yourself, with someone else, even which you think you're safe? Go in packs of five with knives, with fucking rottweilers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

With knives taped to your hands and.

[Elvis]

Knives taped your rottweilers.

[Karen Kilgariff]

And then just tons of guns and just start shooting at any sound you hear.

[Elvis]

Anyone who fucking approaches you, shoot them. Shoot them. Disclaimer. We're fucking joking. You can't sue us if this happens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, we're joking.

[Elvis]

We're not liable.

[Karen Kilgariff]

So that's my super unsatisfying actual murderer Case of Israel Keys.

[Elvis]

That's good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay, thanks. I did too. Sorry. The one night you're like, can I get out of here early? And I'm like, you know what I'm gonna do? Give you two. What a dick.

[Elvis]

No, we're good on time. I'm totally checking the time. I mean, we're not. But let's just. I don't. This is more important to me. I'm sorry. Public school at the Virgil. But this is more important.

[Karen Kilgariff]

What a great show. Please go to public school at the Virgil once a month.

[Elvis]

Public school at the Virgil. It's not as important as my favorite. Oh my God. No, I'm kidding. It's such a good show.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's a joke.

[Elvis]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Do we do. Should we each say one thing that we like or that makes us happy?

[Elvis]

One thing that made us happy in the past week?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Elvis]

Okay.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, do you want me to go first? Because I have one.

[Elvis]

Oh, you do have one.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Okay. It is. I've been listening to you Must remember this, the podcast by Karina Longworth. And it. I'm so obsessed with it, I started. Somebody recommended to me the Manson series. Cause she goes, it's Manson's Hollywood, I think it's called. And it's like a six part series. But she. I mean, talk about research. Talk about a person who cares.

[Elvis]

Polar opposite.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I mean, if you hate us, this is the podcast for you. You haven't made it to the end, but it is.

[Elvis]

She's you're spite listening right now.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. And congratulations. Cause here's the payoff. It's such a. Which it's the kind of thing where I didn't think I was that interested in old time Hollywood. And it is fascinating. It's gossipy. It's kind of dirty. There's all these things where you're like, I had no idea that happened. It's just. And it's beautifully done. And so. Yeah, I highly recommend that.

[Elvis]

That's a great. I was gonna say. No, you know what I'm gonna say. So I found a new author. It's like a true crime. No, no, no. It's a fiction. Fiction. Fictional author. I'm listening to her audiobooks and it's like crime and it's fucked up and it's fucking like a British procedural. Ooh. So I don't know why I was. Didn't know that I was into this. So I'm fighting it. Yeah. But I like listening to it on an audiobook. So. It's called Blacklands, the one I'm listening to right now by Belinda Bauer. B A U E R. It's fucked. Like, this is. She's. It's. You know what I'm saying?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. Because it's not.

[Elvis]

Yeah, it's totally.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It.

[Elvis]

Absolutely. I mean it is, but it's not. Yeah. And it's not trying to be.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No, it just is.

[Elvis]

Yeah. Yeah, it's good.

[Karen Kilgariff]

That's awesome.

[Elvis]

Yeah. What do we want to. Our website is up and I should have a shows page that has all our shows on it. So you'll be able to track it there.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah. All that information we tried to give you at the beginning or we did give you at the beginning. You can have in like a way to reference.

[Elvis]

The website is called. And I'm trying to think of something like super like really dumb and funny that it would be. But it's not. It's just my favorite part. Murder.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Oh, you mean like.

[Elvis]

Oh, the word murder mystery show. Oh, yeah, that would be cool.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Sorry, there's too much talking dot org. Something like that.

[Elvis]

Skipper. Skippers. Skippers unite. You guys. Thanks for uniting with us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes.

[Elvis]

And listening. We. You guys are the ones. You guys are the ones.

[Karen Kilgariff]

You're the one for me and the.

[Elvis]

People who are for us. Us and like we Truly, truly, truly, truly, truly. Thanks for listening.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Stay sexy.

[Elvis]

Don't get murdered. Elvis, you want a cookie? Good boy.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Bye.

[Elvis]

Bye.

[Karen Kilgariff]

He did that right on cue.

[Elvis]

He did that on cue. Just waiting. He's been waiting. Yeah, he has him tearing up is like. Is him saying Fuck. What the fuck?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Where's the cookie?

[Elvis]

Yeah, he doesn't do that because Vince always gives him cookies.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And we're back. Karen, any, any updates on any of this?

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yes, there are.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

There's so many unanswered questions, of course, about Israel Keys, how many victims he has, where those victims are, how many states he hit. I mean, he was truly like going out there trying to be uncatchable, so. And because of that, he was. In 2020, the FBI released images of skulls that had been drawn by Israel Keys with his own blood.

[Elvis]

What?

[Stephen Ray Morris]

They were found under his bed in his jail cell. In a 48 hour special, FBI Special Agent Jolene Godin explained, quote, he drew a series of 11 skulls and one of them says we are one. We believe that 11 is the total number of victims.

[Elvis]

Wow.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

So you can look that up. Obviously, many true crime fans probably have already read it. So the confirmed victims of Israel Keys are Bill and Lorraine Currier, that couple from Vermont, Samantha Caning of Anchorage, Alaska. And that was Samantha Caning's ATM card that Israel Keys was using when he got caught in Texas.

[Elvis]

Right.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And we have talked about Josh Hallmark's podcast True Crime Bullshit a lot. But that was also in my re approach to doing this story, which is so gigantic, I started listening to this podcast. It's really incredible. I really love it. He is. Josh Hallmark is such a great podcast host and he's so serious about really trying to find bodies, victims, any like trying to clear missing persons cases from years back. It's such incredible work that he has been doing for the past decade. Hallmark says no murder kits have been found since key's death in 2012. But over 70 top topographical maps of various areas of the country were found on Keys computer by the FBI. And so Josh thinks that these maps will help the FBI and others locate more murder kits, cash or bodies that have been hidden, essentially.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Can you imagine if they have been found those kits and like someone didn't know what they were and just.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Just threw them away? Yeah, you're just like walking through the forest and you kick a couple pine sprigs over and then there's just a duffel bag filled with a very overt murder kit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Call the police, people, please.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Please call the police.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And also don't remember if you have any information about any. Don't remember anything. You can call the FBI at 1-800- call FBI, which Georgia doesn't think is a real phone number because you said there's not enough numbers. 1-800-Call-FBI is so funny. So that's Just a top scratching the surface of Israel Keys.

[Elvis]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right, Skippers, you made it to the end. Don't skip this part. It's really important.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It's about you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's about you because we're going to.

[Elvis]

Take the pressure off you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And if we were to name this episode something aside from skipping the Skippers.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Well, we could name it after George's joke about Stephen giving me that Diet Coke, Tall boy. And the title would be Steven's yous New Moment, Mommy. It's pretty comforting.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's see. Pond of Shame. I like that one about what you.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Said about the show's success to going to a naturopath or walking down a natural path to a pond of shame.

[Elvis]

Where were we? What were we doing?

[Georgia Hardstark]

How much whiskey had I had?

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And also, like what, you know, you skip that.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

That magic back and forth between you and a I.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're going to miss all the hollandaise sauce that we dump on ourselves.

[Elvis]

Don't do it.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Unless you have high cholesterol, don't do it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Truly and well. There's parsley on top of it anyway.

[Elvis]

So you get your greens.

[Karen Kilgariff]

It'll clear you right out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fine. How about. Yeah, you. You do this.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

The casserole of bad things. That's of course talking about Israel Keys crimes, but also so many things these days. Just a casserole of bad things.

[Elvis]

It's true.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Some crunchy, like, topping on there.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Yeah, Those fried onions. Ooh, yeah.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

All right. Well, thanks, Skippers.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Thanks Skippers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Non skippers alike.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

More thanks to the non skippers. You're really in there with us for this one especially.

[Elvis]

Yeah.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

And stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[Elvis]

Goodbye, Elvis.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Do you want a cookie? Did you know an American Home Shield warranty helps protect items in your home that you use every day?

[Karen Kilgariff]

If covered parts of your H vac.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

You can save on a new plan.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

Today, our listeners get 20% off any plan.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Visit ahs.commfm to sign up and see promo details.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

See ahs.comcontracts for coverage details, including limited amounts, fees, limitations and exclusions.

[Karen Kilgariff]

Goodbye.

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[Elvis]

Edu.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

You know those commercials where a single, impossibly shiny car glides down a beautiful winding country road with a horse running along a fence?

[Elvis]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's not real life.

[Karen Kilgariff]

No.

[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Stephen Ray Morris]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

That's h y u n d a I USA.com or call 562-324-4603.

[Elvis]

Goodbye.