Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 56: Service Poodle

Summary

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 56: Service Poodle

Release Date: August 6, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 56 of "Rewind with Karen & Georgia," hosts Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark delve into the haunting case of Darlie Rothier. Originally aired on February 15, 2017, the episode titled "Service Poodle" explores the complexities surrounding Darlie's conviction for the murder of her two young sons and the subsequent doubts about her guilt.

Case Overview: The Tragedy of Darlie Rothier

The episode begins with a chilling recount of the events of June 6, 1996, when Darlie Rothier's home in Rowlett, Texas, was brutally attacked. Darlie, along with her two sons, Devin (5) and Damon (6), were brutally murdered. Darlie survived a throat slashing, narrowly missing her carotid artery due to her necklace acting as a makeshift tourniquet.

Key Details and Initial Investigation

Darlie reported the attack to 911 at 2:31 AM, describing a man who attacked her and her children. Critical evidence included a window screen cut from the garage and a sock with child blood found nearby. Despite the violent nature of the attack, Darlie later presented inconsistencies that cast doubt on her account:

• Inconsistent Evidence: Darlie appeared in court days after the attack with fresh bruises not present during the initial incident, leading doctors to suggest her injuries were self-inflicted.

  "She showed up at the police station with dark bruises all over her arms... the doctors said her wounds were self-inflicted." [15:35]

Police Suspicions and Darlie's Behavior

Georgia and Karen discuss Darlie's bizarre behavior following the tragedy, highlighting her participation in a birthday ceremony for her deceased son where she was seen spraying silly string and laughing.

"She's spraying it at the grave. It's not even like up in the air... She's just creepy." [18:35]

Forensic Evidence and Expert Testimony

The prosecution's case hinged on flawed forensic evidence provided by Tom Bevel, a blood spatter expert whose methods have since been discredited. Bevel testified that the blood patterns on Darlie's nightshirt indicated she staged the crime scene.

"When an inanimate object is reported to be lying, the passive language suggests the subject placed it there...a verbal sign that the speaker is responsible." [30:05]

Media Influence and Public Perception

The hosts draw parallels between the Darlie Rothier case and other high-profile wrongful convictions, emphasizing how media portrayal can heavily influence public opinion and judicial outcomes.

"They tried and convicted him in the newspaper... people couldn't get enough of this story because it was one of the first big Hollywood scandals." [85:15]

Alternative Theories and Doubts about Guilt

Karen and Georgia explore alternative theories suggesting that Darlie might have been wrongfully convicted, possibly orchestrated by her husband Darren due to financial motivations. Darren had previously admitted to considering an insurance scam involving a break-in.

"He admitted that he asked someone to break into their house as part of an insurance scam." [35:04]

Legal Missteps and Failed Defense

The episode highlights significant legal oversights, including Maud Delmont's unreliable testimonies and the defense's initial reluctance to present witnesses that could have exonerated Darlie. These factors contributed to Darlie's conviction despite substantial doubts about her involvement.

"On April 12, 1922, the jury acquitted Arbuckle of manslaughter after deliberating for five minutes." [89:01]

Ongoing Appeals and Current Status

As of 2024, Darlie Rothier remains on death row, maintaining her innocence while her family continues to seek appeals. Advances in DNA testing offer hope for potential exoneration, but the case remains unresolved and contentious.

"As of 2024, prosecutors say they have tested a hundred DNA samples from the scene and all belonged to Darlie and the little boys." [58:18]

Discussion on Rehabilitation vs. Punishment

The episode transitions into a broader discussion about the Canadian justice system's approach to rehabilitation versus lifelong punishment. Georgia emphasizes the challenges and public fear surrounding the release of individuals deemed rehabilitated.

"If you are trying to aim for rehabilitation... he did not know where he was. He honestly believed a demon was sitting next to him." [04:26]

Personal Anecdotes and Reflections

Throughout the episode, Karen and Georgia share personal stories and reflections, enhancing the narrative with their trademark blend of humor and empathy. They express frustration over the unresolved nature of the case and the emotional toll it takes on all parties involved.

"It's so messed up... She and her family continue to file appeals and claim there is DNA that will eventually clear her." [58:18]

Conclusion

Episode 56 of "Rewind with Karen & Georgia" offers a detailed exploration of the Darlie Rothier case, highlighting the intricate web of forensic errors, media influence, and legal shortcomings that contributed to a potentially wrongful conviction. Karen and Georgia leave listeners contemplating the balance between justice and rehabilitation, and the profound impact unresolved cases have on victims' families and public trust.

Notable Quotes

• "If it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be Tide." — Advertisement [00:20]
• "When your liver struggles, you feel it. Fatigue, bloating, brain fog..." — Advertisement [01:30]
• "People are super pissed off about it." — Georgia on Canadian justice system [05:21]
• "You don't have to pick. Please." — Karen and Georgia [59:27]

Final Thoughts

Through this episode, Karen and Georgia effectively shed light on a tragic and complex case, prompting listeners to question the efficacy of the justice system and the role of societal perceptions in shaping legal outcomes. Their insightful analysis, combined with personal narratives, makes "Service Poodle" a compelling listen for both true crime aficionados and casual listeners alike.

Transcript

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

At the exact same time, walked outside into the darkness and never came back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

Visit1md.org and use code murder to save 15 on your first order. Goodbye.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary and updates and insights.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Today, we're recapping episode 56, which we named Service Poodle for some reason.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Of course we did. Of course we did. We had to. So this episode came out on February 15th.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Ah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Happy Valentine's Day 2017.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Let's get into the intro of episode 56. Hi. Hey.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's going on?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Oh, nothing. How are you? Oh, pretty good. Hey, this is my favorite murderer. That's Karen.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. That's Georgia.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

That's right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And this is a podcast where we talk to you about murders that have happened.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

What's going on?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, the thing that people keep on tweeting to us is and when I say keep on. And certainly I want to communicate with people and I certainly want to know things when it's breaking news. Do I want to know things 300 times from breaking news? Probably not. Vincent Lee, the man from the Bus that killed that boy that was sitting next to him because he thought he.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Was a demon in our cannibal episode. And it was the most horrifying story, cannibal or not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it seemed to be that the horrifying details got lost in the fact that I don't know Canadian geography very well. That's really what people got up in arms about.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

That's what people are angry about. Listen, I tried to correct my saying of Worcester and apparently I was wrong again. Listen, I tried.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, look, I feel like we might be making a mistake even acknowledging anything at this point, but that man, Vincent Lee, has now been entirely released.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

How the fuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's how Canada does it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

How the fuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They've decided that he is rehabilitated and that he is going to go free. It's the way their system is set up.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

You know what's interesting is that instead of having a. Like, there's a parole board of people who are. I don't know if they're voted or whatever the fuck, but there's a parole board that decides if people stay or go. Why isn't that also a jury of our peers who are like, hell, no, I don't want that guy living next door to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, because I think that's the given. I think that if you asked anybody, do you want a criminal out in society, the answer is no. Lock them up forever. But I think the idea is, if you are trying to aim for rehabilitation, especially with this guy who was a complete schizophrenic who just didn't take his meds, he did not know where he was. He honestly believed a demon was sitting next to him. None of that, of course, is an excuse or makes anything okay, especially for that family. But that's really what was going on with him. Now that he's on meds, that's not the person that he is.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, but there's no assurance that he's going to keep taking his meds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. There's also no assurance that you won't kill me right now. I think that the overall discussion of what is jail for and what is rehabilitation for real. Because I think that anybody who feels unsafe wants the answer to be lock them up forever, we never see them again.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's, you know, I mean, we have gotten so many emails and everybody's response is like, what the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck? But there are tons of articles about the way Canadian. Like the Canadian justice system works. And that is the goal is not lock them up. And you Never see them again. And because of that, there's a lot of people that are super pissed off about it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, I mean, that's not our goal here either. But I was out on Saturday night with Vince. We got an Uber home by a retired cop who was a policeman in Compton for years. It was so fucking cool. And had his service poodle with him, who was the sweetest fucking dog who just, like, sat in our laps the whole time. So he drops us off a Del Taco down, you know? Oh. Which is like, what? I mean, we didn't even ask. We were like. And he was like, I can't go further than this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We're like, all right, fine.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And so, Vincent, I get Del Taco, and we're heading home, and we're walking across the street, and someone pulls over and rolls their window down. And I was like, oh, fuck. And he yelled, and it's just some random dude by himself, you know, like at midnight, and he yells, stay sexy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's crazy.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I know. I mean, I had a toxic masculinity shirt on, so I don't know if he knew it was me. There you go. Or he was like, this is my favorite murder, girl.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's just shouting you out.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

He just fucking shouted at me. And I was awesome. Again, screamed at him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now, that's hilarious to me because I think you and I talked about that, where you were like, is it nerdy to wear your own shirt?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you clearly made that decision.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I made the decision on that shirt because it's a, like, protest message. And it says my favorite murder with very small on it. And it looked really good on me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I love that shirt. Which one did you get?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Well, all right. Actually, it's funny they ask that. This is not a setup. I got just the regular unisex T shirt size small. And the next day, I emailed our fucking awesome girl at the Printful, Kirsten, and was like, can we get this in women's shirts as well? Because that didn't fit me very well. You know how, like, you want certain shirts to fit a. Well, so we now have ladies shirts instead of just unisex.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh. Oh, cool.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. Cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I like it. I like that you're. You're personally walking the message around.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, that's fun. I felt pretty cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, we are back.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Wow. Do you have an update, Karen, on Vincent Lee?

[Georgia Hardstark]

There are updates. He's now living under a different name. He's been free since 2017 without further incident. He was found not criminally responsible for murdering Tim McLean on that Greyhound bus. The mother of Tim McLean, Carol Deli has been vocal about being unhappy with Lee's release. She says that's wrong and should never be. In a statement to APTN News, she says, vince Lee committed one of the most horrific murders in Canadian history and has faded back into society. My son is still dead. End quote. Which is so sad and true. I mean, like, it is separate from the context. Just when it stands alone, it is just one of the most horrible things you could hear about.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, the whole. The whole story is horrifying. I can't imagine living through that. Yeah, I had totally forgotten about that Uber ride I took with two great things. A service poodle and an ex cop. Right? Like, wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And then I got yelled at. I love it. Or like, yelled to, yelled around, yelled for, yelled for. That's it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A positive.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

That's a positive yell.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's the positive. I mean, there's something about going over these old episodes, and it is almost like a diary we didn't keep and, like, thinking about it. Cause at first it was just like, oh, God, we fucked so many things up and we did things wrong and what these things we said that we wish we never said, blah, blah, blah. But then it's like. But then you have these little nuggets of life, of what we were just kind of doing in the day to day that, yeah, you probably never would have remembered a specific Uber ride, but now you do.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And that's so funny and true because, like, yeah, I never write a diary. I always wish I had, but I should have started 10 years ago. But this is kind of that. And it's exciting because we, you and I know now that our lives are about to change so drastically, so insanely. So insanely. They already have at this point in episode 56, changed big time. But even more so, like, we don't know what's coming.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think that might be a part of it too. Looking back, there's a piece of it where we don't know.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't know. It's so. It's so wild.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It is. It is. Like, it. It only got, like, bigger from here. I feel like the. I feel like the peak was like 2018 through 2020, when life was just like, bananas. Like, this is. This can't be really happening. Let's ride this. Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, like, let's do three cities a weekend on tour and write a book.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Let's do the podcast and like, just so many little things that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So many things.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Crazy. All right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Now let's get into Georgia's story about Darlie Rootier.

[Karen Kilgariff]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

That's squarespace.com murder code murder goodbye goodbye. Okay, first so on June 6, 1996 at 2:31am, 911-Dispatchers in Rowlett, Texas, which is a suburb east of Dallas, receives a call from Darley Roti Air. She's panicked and she tells the operator that her home had been broken into and that a stranger had attacked herself and her two sons, Devin and Damon, who were 5 and 6 while they were asleep on the couch. And they had the person who broke in had stabbed the boys multiple times and slit her throat. So Devon was stabbed twice in the chest with a ton of force and Damon was stabbed half a dozen or more times in the back. And Darlie, the mom who was sleeping downstairs with the kids, so her throat was slashed and she had a bunch of other wounds. Darlie's husband and the father of the two boys, he was asleep upstairs in bed at the time with their seven month old baby boy. The two boys ended up dying while Darlie was treated at the hospital and released two days later. She had two slice wounds in her right forearm and one in her left shoulder and her throat had been cut and the doctor said she survived only because the knife stopped 2 millimeters short of her carotid artery. So it doesn't seem like a defensive wound or a self inflicted wound.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She'd be going right up to the verge if that was self inflicted, that'd be insane.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Exactly. And then the necklace she was wearing had to be surgically removed from the wound, so it's Kind of the only reason it didn't go through the carotid arteries.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Her own necklace saved her.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Pretty much like when they cut. They cut the necklace in, so maybe it would have gone deeper. Oh, wow. Yeah. So Darlie, who's 26 at the time, says that she fell asleep on the couch with the boys. And the reason she was sleeping downstairs with them is that she was a light sleeper. The baby had been waking her up often. And as she's sleeping on the couch, she's awakened by Daemon's cries, screaming, mommy, Mommy. And then she saw a man moving through the kitchen and followed him as he went towards the garage. And when she got to the utility room, she saw a knife and picked it up. And only then she said, did she return to Devin and Damon and realized that she had been stabbed as well. Her husband Darren comes downstairs after hearing Darlie cry and scream and begins administering CPR to Devin. And by then whoever it was had disappeared. So Darren never saw him. And at the scene, the police find a window screen in the garage has been cut, but the window sill is undisturbed. Like all the dust and dirt's still there, so no one really jumped out of it or in through it. And the knife that was used came from inside the house. But also there was a sock with the boy's blood on it dropped a few houses down on the sidewalk. And a few days after leaving the hospital, Darlie shows up at the police station with dark bruises all over her arms, saying that they had come from the attack. But the doctors who examined her said that the bruises were too fresh to have been inflicted on the night of the attacks. And they say that her wounds are self inflicted. But I saw them and it is like a full bruise from her shoulder down to her wrist. It's not just a couple little light bruises, it's fucking half of her arm is a gnarly bruise. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're completely convinced she didn't do it to herself?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I don't know that. Yes, yes. I don't know how you would have done that to yourself. But eight days later, on what would have been Devin's seventh birthday, but he died. The family goes to the cemetery, family and friends. And apparently they're having a ceremony to honor Devin. Cause it's his birthday and. And there's a whole two hour thing of them crying and having a whole ceremony and it being a sad thing. But then the news put the only. The only part the news put on as footage was when they're having a birthday celebration following the ceremony in which Darlie is singing, is laughing and spraying Silly String on the graves and singing Happy Birthday. Remember that fucking video footage? And everyone was like, what in the fucking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fuck the Silly String. Yeah, I'll never forget it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

She's spraying it at the grave. It's not even like up in the air. I mean, whatever. She's chewing gum and she's laughing and I don't care if you fucking had a ceremony before that and you're crying. It's fucking weird. And she's just creepy and so four days later she's charged with capital murder.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, the one who cut her own throat or I mean whose throat was cut?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, throat was cut so closely that she almost. It almost cut her throat 2cm away from her carotid artery.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Millimeters.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

You said millimeters. I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Crazy.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. She's arrested for capital murder. The crime scene consultant says that the evidence suggests the crime had. The crime scene had been staged. So the prosecution suggests that Roti Air murdered her sons because of the family's financial difficulties as well as postpartum depression from her seven month old child. She had never been convicted of anything. She had never shown abuse towards the kid, didn't have any mental illness apparently. But they described her as a pampered, materialistic woman with substantial debt, plummeting credit ratings and little money in the bank who feared that her lavish lifestyle was about to end. And it's true, she bought. They had a lavish lifestyle for sure, but fucking so do a lot of people. So San Antonio Chief medical examiner testifies that the wound to Rotier's neck came within 2 millimeters of her carotid artery. And that was not consistent with self inflicted wounds he had seen in the past. But Tom Bevel, who's we'll get to, testifies that cast off blood found on the back of her night shirt indicates that she had raised the knife over her head as she withdrew it from each boy to stab again.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's the old blood spatter that we.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Right. And let's remember Tom Bevel's name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, okay. Uh huh. Post it. Note on Tom Bevel.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Okay. So I listened to the911call. Cause of course I did. And I'm about to play the whole thing for you right now. No, I'm not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then door slam. Yeah, my car peeling.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It sounds to me it sounded a lot like the JonBenet Ramsey 911 call.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Patsy.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Patsy Ramsey's like panicked. I'm freaking out. I can't answer the questions. Correctly, there's something off. And the way that when the analysis happened, the me, the I, my baby, her, like not. Which I'll get to as well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's more the 911 call. She's talking about herself more than the people who need 911.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yes. And she's answering questions very well until the question is pointed. And then she freaks out. You know what I mean? Like, remember she was like, what happened? And then Patsy just starts screaming, my baby, my baby. You know, she won't fucking answer the question. Right. Okay, so there's this. Okay, so let's get to that. There's this fucking incredible blog called that statement-anxiety.blogspot, which I've been to before just to read. I read JonBenet Ramsey, the Patsy Ramsey Nine One Call Analysis. This guy's really fucking good at it and it's super cool. He examines the entire call and finds a bunch of discrepancies that leads to him thinking that she's actually knows more than she's saying. So a couple of the things is that she's more concerned with explaining what happened than with the fact that her sons are dying. So she keeps coming to conclusions about they came in. How did they get in? Why would anyone do this? It's inconsistent. She can't keep her pronouns or articles straight. Which this guy statement analysis explains is very weird. Such as he says stuff like them and then calls them him and then calls them they, then someone, then some man. It's never like him. It's never always him or always a.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Certain person who's talking about the guy that broke in.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, it's always a different pronoun, which I or article. It's very interesting. And in the call she establishes her alibi for the fact that. So the 911 caller says. So Darlie says that there was a knife in the utility exit. And the 911 caller says, okay, leave it there, don't touch it. And Darlie says, I already grabbed it. And then she says, God, I bet we could have gotten prints from that maybe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

But she's having a panic attack. She's panicking while she does that. But I already grabbed it. I already grabbed it. And like establishing the fact. And then goes back to it later.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like she. But sorry in that panic. Also says, we could have gotten prints off of it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Goes back to it. I can't believe I grabbed the knife. Reminding you. I bet we could have gotten prints off of that. But imagine someone having hysterical Patsy Ramsey breakdown during that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Imagine your Children bleeding in front of you, and you're talking about where you. That you could have or couldn't have gotten prints.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

She also says, like, I bet this happened. Like, she's establishing. She's trying to convince the 911 operator of what happened and her husband, too. So she's trying to convince her husband of what happened while he's administering CPR to his kids. Instead of asking how they are. She keeps saying, darren, this thing happened. Can you believe this happened? Someone broke in, Darren, they broke in. She's trying to convince him of it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She's talking about the crime as opposed to the criminal, as opposed to the result.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

What happened? As opposed to, are they okay? Are they alive? What's happening at this moment? And he says the mother accepts the children's death even while they're still breathing, saying, they're dead, they're dead. My children are dead. And one of them is dead. One of them is still breathing. I think he's giving him cpr, and I think they can tell that he's still alive. So she keeps acknowledging their death. And he was saying, the guy from this website is saying that parents won't acknowledge their children's death for even when saying, your kid passed away, no, no, no, it didn't happen. I don't believe it can't be true. That's a normal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry. I feel like I've seen that on some shows or whatever. People, how they know it's fake on the 911 call is that exact thing of when you're on the call. It's always about the hope and the help and fixing it now, getting it done.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Get here quicker. Why aren't they here yet?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. As opposed to, like, let's all on this call decide this is over.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

She keeps yelling, they're dead. They're dead. Okay? And then here's the other thing about it. So she keeps saying. She keeps calling her kids by different things. So it depends on how she's saying they are that she changes. So at one point, she can say, they're dead, my babies are dead. And then when they're still alive, they're called the boys. Or my children changes depending on what state she's saying they're in. So it's never, my babies, it's never the boys, never my children. It's always dependent on my babies are dead, period. There's never, my children are dead. It's always my babies, then the children. Why would they attack the children? They're still, you know, it's just like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like she's almost got written her lies these certain ways.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It's not even. It's something rehearsed, but it's also the way. Like, the way someone who was legitimately reacting wouldn't say those things.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They would stick to it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

They would stick to it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, they would.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It would. My babies or my children. They would stick to just one the whole time. Yeah, I got it. Yeah. And she can't keep the chronology of her story consistent. Things keep fucking changing. Like them, him, someone. Those things are not. They're supposed to stay the same the whole time. And because she's doing the whole thing of, like, this is. This must have been what happened. This, they did this, they did that. That she has intimate knowledge of the killer's intentions and thoughts. Why would they do this? You know, and explaining it. Crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How long is this fucking 911 call?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It's like nine minutes. It's like five and a half minutes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Did you listen to the whole thing?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Oh, dude doesn't do nothing for me. Especially when I know. I think they're not. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's even worse when they're lying.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I know. No, it's not worse to me. I don't want to hear someone's genuine grief.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, that's true. But it's almost like. Well, anyway. God.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It makes me think of that Sherry Rasmussen thing I was telling you about that was on Case File. It's an amazing episode. I think it's like three or four case files ago, and if you haven't listened to it, you have to go listen to it. But it's this woman who was a cop who killed her. She was obsessed with this boyfriend who didn't basically want her. She ended up killing his wife and then hiding, basically making sure she would never get caught for it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

For years. Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

For years. And then they finally trace it back to her, and they have the entire interrogation, which she doesn't think is an interrogation, and they're telling her is not one. They just need to ask her a couple questions. And you basically listen to her lie, lie, lie, and then it slowly breaks down. And, like, I had to turn it off because she. Listening to a person who still thinks that they're lying and getting away with it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

They're smarter than the person who.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When it's blatantly obvious, it's just, like, painfully obvious.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And they're playing. The cops are playing stupid. Like, they never play stupid.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. So they're going. They're just basically saying, listen, we just need this information. She'd be Like, I don't know, like, she did it the same way every time where she would do this fakie stutter.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Painful.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

That's why I love reading the line for line here. This guy is like this thing they just said, those two little. Like, he'll highlight I instead of me or you know what I mean? Like, that's shit that you just don't pay attention to. I fucking love that stuff.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like. Cause you can't control it in the moment, right?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Because a normal person and this person studied, you know, so Many normal, true 911 calls and confessions that here's what people say when they're legitimately going through grief and feeling freaking the fuck out. You don't say these other things. And here's how you know they're lying. So, I mean, we know the ones that are lying. And he brings up examples of them. A lot of the ones that are like. It's like this one that is untrue. That is proven to be untrue. I don't know. I think it's fucking awesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is. It's fascinating.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Okay. And here's my favorite part. And this is the last thing I'll say about it. She also talks about how he says. She also talks about how the knife is, quote, the knife was, quote, lying in the garage, like, laying in the garage. And then he says, when an inanimate object is reported to be lying, standing, sitting, et cetera, the passive language suggests the subject placed it there. Knives cannot, quote, lie down, nor stand, nor sit. So when the language is employed, it is a verbal sign that the speaker or the subject is responsible for the placement. This is commonly seen in murder weapons and in drugs, as in the drugs were sitting on the cabinet as an example. And it is like, you think of it, it's like it was doing this thing away from me that I had nothing to do with. The drugs were just sitting on the cabinet instead of the drugs were on the cabinet.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So it's basically like in their mind, they're watching themselves put it on the ground. It's like it's lying on the ground.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Or they're purposely distancing or saying what they would have seen if they weren't part of it, if they weren't involved. I saw a knife lying on the ground. Well, it's like if you weren't involved in that, you would just see a knife on the ground.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A knife on the ground.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's fascinating.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Isn't that interesting?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, that's like that. Did you ever see that fucking Tim Roth TV show where it was all about catching lying and micro expressions and all that stuff.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

No, but I knew I would like that every time I heard about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. That's what that show was like.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Lie to me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was all, like, eyes and what?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Lie to me, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. It's like, right now.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

No, don't tell me. Try it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That, and you look up to. You look up one direction when you're telling the truth, remembering. And you look up the other when you're lying, remembering.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Never remember which one. I don't know. But then you end up looking at every single person's, like, blink or like her eyelash moved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Is she lying?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It doesn't. I think those ones don't apply to everything. But language, it makes more sense. You can't control it as well.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. Because you distance yourself from things by saying certain things. And you. And it's not rehearsed in that. You read a script and said, okay, here's what I'm gonna say. But it's like. And he keeps saying that when you're going from memory, from legitimate memory, you don't stop to say these inconsistencies, you know, I fucking love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You don't stop to go, we could have gotten prints off the nose.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Just blatantly fucking.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Or at that point, it's like, it doesn't matter. That's you telling me over and over again that someone broke into your house and came at you. Doesn't matter. What matters is getting someone over there right away. Like, you don't need. The 911 operator doesn't need to know that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You say it once, and that's all the information they need to know.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. And they said, like, when they. When they say, 91 1, what is your emergency? It's so there doesn't have to be any greeting, any, you know, pretenses. You just fucking say what your emergency is. And she started with a man, came into my house. This happened. I got. My throat is slit or whatever, and my babies got stabbed. Like, she doesn't even start. Get someone over here right now. My children are dying. You know, like, you don't need. This isn't the trial you don't need.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're not here to tell the story of what just happened, which you clearly made up.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

What should be your immediate action is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To save my fucking baby.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Get someone fucking as soon as possible. Yeah. All right. So remember Tom Bevel?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I sure do. I put a post it note on the mental idea of him.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I saw that. So he stated that the blood stains on her Victoria's Secret night shirt were, quote, consistent with cast off blood, blah, blah. He says that cast off stains on the front indicate that she could not have been lying on the couch when the sons were attacked and that the crime scene was staged because of that. So Tom Bevel is the dude who is being taken to court and has proven that a bunch of the blood spatter analysis that he testified to and got people fucking found guilty for. A lot of that is incorrect and bunk science.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He's the one that made it up, right? Like, he basically became a blood spatter expert on his own declaration.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. And I don't even know if he thinks that he made it up. It's almost like he just seems like a cocky son of a bitch who was like, here's what happens, and believed it and became this big time, you know, prosecuting witness and fucking loved it and kept talking about it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Now he's the guy from the staircase, right?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. That basically, like, at the end, they're just like, all of this is.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, well, it's so many. So much of that evidence. Like, remember we were talking about the hair evidence that's not really conclusive. The blood spatter evidence. All this shit is, like, proving to be bullshit. All right, so there's evidence to suggest that she wasn't the killer. This article in Texas Monthly by Skip Hollingsworth, it's got the best name. So several neighbors told police that they had noticed a dark car slowly cruising through the area in the. Before the crime. And one even said that the car occasionally stopped near their house. The Reuters. The Reuters house. And that a private investigator working for Darlie's appellate attorney says that Darren, her husband, admitted that in the spring of 96, when his business was in trouble and he was $22,000 in debt, he asked Darlie's stepfather if he knew anyone who might break into the family's house as part of an insurance scam.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What the fuck?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I know. He admitted this to the reporter, Skip Hollingsworth, who wrote an article about it and said that he confessed to the scheme, that this was true. He asked someone to break into their.

[Georgia Hardstark]

House to steal shit so they could make money so they could get the.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Insurance money off the items he stole. Right. Which is, like, different than having someone killed, but it's not far from it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, yes. It's the willingness to break the law so you can get your ass out of whatever financial problem you're in.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And it's knowing that you can hire someone to do. Do A deed for you so that you can get insurance money.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And you're dumb enough to tell people.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Which makes me think if you're dumb enough to tell the father of your wife who ends up getting her throat slit, that seems too. That doesn't seem. That doesn't seem cagey enough to me too. I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, on his part.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

So anyways, he says that he confessed. He had discussed it with other people in town. He says there's a possibility I said the same thing in conversation with people that worked around me. I don't remember what I said, but there's a strong possibility that was on my mind in conversation. I could have said that. So he is saying that maybe he mentioned to someone that he wanted insurance money. So maybe someone broke in and killed his children and tried to kill his wife. So he, you know, it's like just. I don't know. It's so fucking weird. But so they say his guilt, his. It would have been financial trouble. That was his motive. And he had a 250,000 life insurance policy on Darlie. So maybe the main motive was to kill her. Why would they kill the children, though? Whatever. But Darren had an $800,000 life insurance policy on him. So who's to say that if Darlie had done it, why wouldn't she have just killed the husband? Why would she kill her two children? It's fucking confusing. And the policies on the kids was really low, so it wasn't like they were the main motive. He failed a polygraph test and is shown to be lying to four questions. The questions were, was he involved in any plan to commit a crime at his house on June 6, 1996? Did he stab Darlie? Did he know who planted the sock in the alley? And could he name the person who stabbed Darlie? So he failed those four questions. But part of the bargain that the high profile lawyers that cost $94,000 to hire for Darley was that they would agree to not go with the defense attorney. Original defense attorney's strategy, which was to raise reasonable doubt for Darlie by casting suspicion on the husbands. So they were like, we'll represent you or we'll pay you, but you can't suggest that the husband did it, which is like, weird. So she, Darlie is convicted of murdering Damon, only one kid. And on 2-4-97, she's sentenced to death by lethal injection.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sorry, really quick. Did the second kid live?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

No, they both died.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. He was just still alive on that call.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Right. For some reason, it's just one child. I don't understand. It's just so confounding. A juror is later expressed regret saying that there were photos of her injuries that never were shown during the trial and that she felt coerced by other jurors to find Darlie guilty. The court reporter made 3,300 mistakes in the transcript, which is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No. As a court reporter.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

No. Never a court student.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, well, someone that knows a little bit about you.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

You would have never passed your class. You would never become a court reporter if you made that many mistakes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's an insane amount.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Like, that's insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Those people have to be like. Because it's what. What they're writing becomes like.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It's the only. It's the only evidence of what happened in that courtroom. Yeah. So, yeah, that should be a mistrial. Alone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What was she doing? Or he.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I don't know. She acknowledged that she had lied to cover what she feared was a reverse, an irreversible error that would have gotten Darlie a new trial. So she. She made these many mistakes, and she.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Lied about it because she didn't want her to get a new trial, because.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

She didn't want to get in trouble.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Oh, and she loses. She lost her license.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I think that's fair.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. But she was granted immunity from prosecution by the DA's office, which would have had to. Which would have. If she had been. If she had spoken about it, they would have gotten a new trial for Darlie. So it's all fucked up. So I watched, like, the first jailhouse interview of Darlie, and she has that creepy little girl voice of, like, I've been, like, the weird little girl voice of, like. Something is not right with your voice. You know what I mean?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah. No. I was just thinking Maria Bamford has a joke. The higher your voice, the angrier you are.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. Yeah. Maria Bamford could play this chick really well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I bet she could.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

She looks like our friend Glynnis McCarthy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, wow.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Like, pretty, blonde, looks all American, and then just has this little voice where she's just trying really hard. And it's just so creepy because the. The interviewer, the woman, the news reporter is female, and the way Darlie is talking to her is just, like, very. It just seems creepy. It's just not right, which I know is not a reason why someone killed someone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What's the vibe, though?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

The vibe is not understanding that you seem off. Like, the sociopath. Like, here's what empathy looks like, and I'm trying to do that. And I must be so believable.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, so, like, what, overly or under overly?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Not even overly. Just not authentic. She's not overdoing it. It just doesn't seem authentic. Which I will fucking take back if she's found. Innocent little girl voice. Oh, and at the end of the interview, she asks to sing a hymn she used to sing to her son. And she sings it straight to the camera. No looking forlornly with her fucking furrowed brow. And she does all the, like, Christina Aguilera highs and lows. Not very low, not very well. But does the, like, j. You know, like, you know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, it's fucking weird. And she's going straight to camera, trying to look sad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's. There you go. That's all I need.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Do you know what I find weird, too? And this could just be me. Being an atheist is like, when people are like, well, it's okay. I'm gonna see them in heaven. I'm fine. Like, they're fine with someone dying because they think they're gonna see them soon, which is like, if that's what you believe, fine. But you should still be mourning the fact that they're dead and they died horrifically. You shouldn't be like, it's fine. I'm gonna see them one day.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also, if you're the mother, like any mother, even if their children are full grown, if the children die before the mother, the mother is fucking ruined.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Broken.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's no time to sing a goddamn song.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And the reporter in the show says she asked to sing a song that she. Like, she can. You can tell by the way she says, like, she didn't just let it play out with her singing. She voiceovered. She asked to, like, and she asked us to do this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wait, is it local or is it like a 2020?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It's like a 2020, but it's like late 90s. The other thing is all these people online, and there's all these, like, darlie's innocent. Darlie's not innocent. And everyone goes to the silly string at the graveyard and how fucking crazy that is. And she's laughing and chewing gum, and every single time that someone mentions that, says, well, you don't know how someone grieves for their. Like, that's the argument for everything. Like, you can't read into that at all because you don't know how you'd grieve and blah, blah, blah. And it'. That's true for the night of. And you're in shock and you don't cry in hysterics but eight days later and you're fucking laughing and don't have a sign of fucking. You look really pretty. And the news vans are there and they're supposed to be there.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And you're celebrating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You're doing a show is what you're doing.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

You're not. You're quote, celebrating.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, yeah, the idea of like, we're going to celebrate his life even though it just ended.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. That doesn't happen for 10 years. Then 10 years later, like, we're gonna celebrate his life. We're gonna let some balloons go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Whatever the fuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. It's not like laughter and kind of joy also, all of that indicates a drug or a drink of some kind because there's a bit of separation of like, to me, that's what that sounds like. It reminds me of. Remember in the. That fucking horrible case. Now I'm not.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Which one? Tell me, tell me, tell me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

The Whatever three.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

The West Memphis three.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Remember that one where the one mother, she like, once they have to go, she starts getting interviewed and she's clearly fucked up. She's like drunk and on pills and she's like collapsing. Yes. Like it's that kind of thing where that it makes perfect sense. Like, I don't expect people to grieve correctly or do anything. And I do expect them to take something to medicate themselves so they don't have to sit in that horrible shit.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And you understand denial being like, I'm not crying because I don't understand. I'm at a hospital around strangers and you're telling me, like, this isn't kick. I'm not at home looking at my children's clothing. You know, I'm not acknowledging this. This doesn't make any sense right now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you're just in this nightmare world. All of that is fine. But it doesn't have an underpinning of celebration and laughter.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It has an underpinning of like when you can. When someone's like a tragic drunk and you're like, oh, no, they're on the verge of tears. But they're like, eh, it's fine, everything's fine.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Well, the things that remind me. Okay, so this happened in June of 96. December of 96 is when fucking JonBenet happened. And there are really a lot of similarities. Patsy Ramsey going on camera and crying about my babies, which. Or my baby. Hold your babies close. Same kind of wording and full face of makeup, looks fucking put together as shit. Is on it already doing pr. Her lawyers already like, get in there and do some PR and clean the shit up. I mean. No, don't. Don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I can't imagine. First of all, I can't imagine what it'd be like to have a child because it's so goddamn stressful how you would do anything. Like if. If I lost a child. And then they were like, you have to go talk on tv. I'd be like, I will murder you. Like, get the fuck away from me.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

When one of these two little fucking sleepy furry beings that are hanging out with me right now. My cats. They're not. Whatever that could be taken in a lot of ways. I will fucking. I will be a wreck when these two die for the rest of my fucking life. And they're not my children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I don't. It doesn't make any sense to me. So I think what happened is that. That Darlie and Darren planned something together. There's no way that he was just oblivious to all of that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No way.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Not if he was already asking people if he could make money by getting his house robbed.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

He knows insurance scams.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

He knows what's going on. Her deep neck wound. I don't think she could have done herself, but, you know, could have someone else who's fucking trying to make it look that way.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But who stabs their own children to death?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

How? Well, maybe the Intruder they paid to come in and do it. Can. They're not their own children. But that's not their own children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

What do you mean?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I think they did hire someone to.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Come in, but they're hiring someone to kill their own children. You're not saying it's not their children. You're saying it's not the Intruder children.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It's not the Intruders children. And that maybe Darlie was the only intended victim and something went wrong.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Cause. Cause there's so many ways she could have covered it up. She could have just not been sleeping downstairs that night. You know what I mean? Like, why would she. Because the kids were sleeping downstairs. They were doing that on a regular basis. It was summer. They watched TV late. She could have just gone to bed and let the kids sleep downstairs if she really didn't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Why did she have to be in the mix at all?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And why do you think.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Why what?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Why do you think she had to be in the mix at all?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

That doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe she legitimately has nothing to do with it and Darren is the only one involved. Maybe it's some guy who worked for him and Was like, I'm gonna do this, and then he's gonna owe me money. And they had nothing to do with it. I don't think that's true. Because there's no other evidence. I mean, whatever. Fuck. I've been going on too long. I'm sorry. It's just. It's bonkers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, it's fascinating. Well, also, if she. Okay, then. Then, yeah, flip it around. If he did attack her and almost killed her and killed her children, then all that other stuff. Did she just fucking snap? And, like, knowing if she was she in on it, but then didn't think she was gonna get attacked and went crazy maybe. Or did she realize. I mean, that's.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Well, the thing that they said too, is that mothers who kill their children, drown them, poison them, suffocate them. Don't manically stab your own child.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stabbing is fucking awful and intense and.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Like, the personal one, especially when she's never had a history. I mean, aside from postpartum depression, which I think fucking everyone gets. Every mother gets. And, you know, she's freaking out because they don't have any money. So she's stressed. But you don't know. You don't go from no mental issues like Andrea Yates, who had them, who kept trying to fucking get help for that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But there is like, the Diane Downs, which is. She. She shot, which is different. But at close range. Her three children.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Right. That's even shooting and stabbing. Light years when it comes to your children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, don't you think.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I mean, we can say this because we don't have kids, so we don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, how the A, how the would we know it all? B, I agree with you in that. Stabbing is like, if it was once. If each one was stabbed once in the chest and they both died.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Throat slit. As much as I hate to say it, it's like, you know, you're gonna. But here's what I didn't say is that one of the kids was stabbed on the ground. They were on the ground through to the carpet four times. Like, it was not a. Like. No, it's like a fucking angry stabbing. I know what happened. I think it was an intruder, but I don't think that they're not involved.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But she's the one that went to jail, and he did not.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Death penalty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So she's still on death row.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he is never.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

He's living with the baby, who's now.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Older, obviously, because this was from the 90s.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

96. Fuck yeah, dude. And the whole family's behind her. They all don't think she did it. Like his family ever. No one thinks she did it. I mean, go watch, go watch her interviews and tell me what you think. And go watch the video of her fucking spraying silly string. And. No, I seen it chomping gum.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I saw that video like right after it happened. And I can still replay it in my head at this moment.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

The silly string is so aggressive. It's like even if you just was the balloons, the silly string is like, if you fucking sprayed me with silly string out of nowhere, I would be pissed off.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes, it's too strong. It's like, it's very. It's kind of like some pranks where it's like actually very aggressive.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Like, look how stupid you look. You're getting silly stringed in the face.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause it's not like toot, toot. It's like, it's like a weird attack.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And she's doing it like that to us.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To a gravestone. To a gravestone.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And she's laughing while she's doing it. Like, haha, guys, isn't this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Introduce me to the person. I 100% agree with the people that are like, you don't know how other people grieve. Agree 100%. I 100% believe if you have a child die, you get to take every drug you want. You get to drink all the drinks in the world, do whatever the fuck you want. And it might make you act super weird, but there would still not be an element of celebration. Especially because all of those things have a depressive quality to them. Alcohol is a depressant. Those pills would be depressants.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Everyone's parent. When I die, when I'm 85, I want you to have a party and celebrate my life. And it's like, okay, dad. Nobody fucking does that. Even your fatherhood. Like an amazing life. You're not gonna be like, let's have a party. Love this song. No, you're all fucking grieving.

[Georgia Hardstark]

But even if you're like, my mom's funeral, there was lots of laughing because she was super funny, but people were fucking sobbing. You can entertain the complexity of an emotional situation like that. A child being stabbed to death by.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Someone you're purporting to, not by some psychopath that you don't know who it is that is on the fucking loose.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, you don't have a birthday party at the grave site. You simply do not.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

You can go to the gravesite and grieve, but you also don't call the fucking news vans and Tell them you're there because they weren't just hanging out there. It's like when celebrities are like, oh, we got caught having a date at fucking Spago. It's like, no, Your publicist calls and says, so and so's gonna be at Spago.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So you think she called news vans?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I can't imagine. Maybe they followed her there. I don't know. Like, you don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's a reason they were there. Yes, that's right. That's right. They thought. And maybe it could have been like the singing where she thought, this'll look good on tape for me.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Right. Because she doesn't understand human emotion and what it's supposed to look like. And so here's what it's supposed to look like. We're celebrating their lives. Like most normal people who have fucking real emotions are like. Like, look at this hymn I used to sing to my babies at night. But look at what a great singer I am. Is really what it's saying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And look how sad I look. Stephen, why are you laughing right now? This isn't funny. It's funny. Stephen. What's up? It's just. It's so gross. Yeah, so. It's insane.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Insanely gross.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It's like, can I sing a song? Yeah. And that the. Even the newscaster or the newswoman was like, no, I'm telling you that she asked to do this because this is fucking weird.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I would want to get on tape to be like, make sure everyone understands we didn't pre produce her or lead her into this. This was her idea.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Totally.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And also that. That is a dividing line because it's like this is a person who is thinking of themselves and what they seem like more than anything else.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

What they think a mom should do. I wanna sing this song. It's the song I sang to my children. So she's like, look at this thing I did for my children.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Not.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, it's her first. It's the crazy narcissism.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

You think your kids were really stoked to hear the song every night about Jesus? No, they wanna f. Do you wanna sing the fucking Itsy Bitsy Spider? Like that's what your fucking little five year old kid was into. Not your fucking of you singing like Christina Aguilera, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's also. That makes me think of the Diane Downs video where she in showing the guy started laughing and flirting with the guy. She was the reporter she was supposed to be showing it to.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

That is the previous video. Okay, here we go. That was really long. I'm sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, no, no, it was good. I liked it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Okay. Oh, last thing.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Her prison job is cross stitching baby blankets that are later sold to state prison employees. Baby blankets she cross stitches. Can you imagine?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is someone being sarcastic in the jail job?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Let's give her this job.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Or is that somehow supposed to be her fix?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

She's saying maybe she's telling people that, but it's not true. They trust me enough to make their baby blankets, but really, it's like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I also want to know about that neck wound. It's neck wound, right?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I mean, there's photos of it and it. You can't tell because it's covered up by, like, bandages, but it looks. I don't. I can't tell. But from what I read about it, it's deep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fucking crazy.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Also because most of those people just. They do something to the opposite arm.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And it was on both sides of her body that she got hit, which is not normal.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He was in it. He did it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

He did it to her. He wasn't supposed to do it as deep. Maybe. Fuck, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

When do we find out?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

What if that really happened?

[Georgia Hardstark]

What happened?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Tomorrow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, good. You call me.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. Okay. We'll go put it. Go to our Twitter. We're gonna have. We're gonna be the only ones who know. And we're.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, that it is like, cut to 40 years later. It's just all these. That's how all these are. And maybe that's part of the draw. It's just that thing of like this long real life mystery.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

And you can, like, entertain all these different possibilities because you don't want to be like, this is what happened. And I know it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. Cause you can't be.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Who fucking knows?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Who knows? But also, you know, a little like that thing of, like, analyzing language and stuff.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. And it's been 20 years. Can you fucking believe that? So, you know, I read conflicting comments on every thing of like, this happened, this happened. I'm like, I never read anything about fingerprints anywhere else. What are you talking about? And then you have to go down that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's just like, was there any new stuff?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Just little things. DNA. They're gonna do DNA testing on this fingerprint. Like, I don't know. But nothing. Is this thing concluded, too?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It is pretty fascinating that that guy that the blood spatter expert was in this case.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Right. Specifically him.

[Georgia Hardstark]

How many? What, did he just travel around the country fucking up murder cases?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It sounds like. It's all right. Piece of shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. We're back. How about any updates for this case?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

No updates. Nothing really has changed. I did hear from a friend who grew up down the street from this case after I covered it, my friend Jackie Johnson, who was like, it was the talk of the neighborhood, obviously. But Darlie remains on death row, continues to maintain her innocence, and she and her family continue to file appeals and claim there is DNA that will eventually clear her. Oh, I know. I mean, as of 2024, prosecutors say they have tested a hundred DNA samples from the scene and all belonged to Darlie and the little boys. So who knows? I mean, will she ever? It's been 30 years. I can't imagine she'll just turn now. After all, her family's been supporting her and stuff too.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

You can't just be like, okay, I'm done with this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Especially such a heinous fucking crime.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so horrible. And then you. You can just keep switching from this is a person who actually did this and has been lying this whole time to this is a person who did not do this and is trying to convince people like, you have to believe me.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know which one's worse. Yeah, definitely.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You don't have to pick.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I won't pick.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Please.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Thank you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I just realized they're horrible and we'll never know.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I think choice in life. Oh, my God. Okay, let's get into your famous story about Thaddy Arbuckle.

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[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

But how can you have peace of mind that your home is protected while you're away?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

With Simplisafe, you can get state of the art protection for the people and the space that you love.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Simply Safe's new active Guard Outdoor Protection helps stop break ins before they happen.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

If someone's lurking, agents talk to them in real time, turning on spotlights and can call the police, proactively deterring break ins before they start.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Simply Saves 24, 7 monitoring costs less than a dollar a day.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Over 4 million Americans trust Simply Save and they're ranked number one in customer service by Newsweek and USA Today. I know you guys love posting your vacation pics online, but all that's doing is telling people that they can break into your house right now because you're not home, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, there's really no better feeling when you just have an inkling of like, oh wait, is the back door open? Is something going on? Simply Safe's app, you can just go on there and check all your cameras. You can check everything and you know it's being monitored.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Like having the peace of mind that when I do post my vacation photos, I can also Keep track of my house and make sure it's safe.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I really like that peace of mind is this affordable and this simple and actually this comprehensive. Visit simplisafe.com fave to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

That's SimpliSafe.com fav.

[Georgia Hardstark]

There's no safe like Simplisafe.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Goodbye.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, are you ready for this one?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Always.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is a story that I heard when I first moved to Los Angeles. This is kind of like a popular old timey Hollywood like rumor story, which is the Fatty Arbuckle rape and murder case. Have you ever heard that one?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yes, I love this one. But I don't know a ton of Fatty.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, same here. That's why I looked into it. Which makes it fascinating because the only thing I ever knew for a really long time was Fatty Arbuckle was a silent film star. Like around the time of Charlie Chaplin and Harold Lloyd. And he was. And that he raped and killed a girl. That's the only thing I knew, that he was a huge star. And then after that his reputation of course was ruined and you never heard from him again. So here's the real story and it's pretty amazing. So Fatty Arbuckle when he was 8 years old. We're just gonna start from the beginning as if we don't know anything. We don't know any of those stories.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Got it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Let's just tell it like that, because that's what the very aggressive British narrator of this Fatty Arbuckle, Crimes and Misdemeanors or some fucking show that I watched, he was just like. And none of it's true. And he's just like really defensive of Fatty Arbuckle. Okay, so. But he was basically like, put it all out of your mind.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, so stop thinking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Stop thinking about it. Okay. So in 1895, Fatty Arbuckle was a kid hanging around the back door of a theater. And a producer walks by and sees him and grabs him and says, do you want to be in a play? Because they needed a kid to play an eight year old. And he does it and he's great. And he ends up being in every production that they did at that theater that year. He was a magician's assistant. He went from. It was everything from being a magician's assistant to having a small part in a Victorian drama. So he was like, made for the theater. Then four years later, his mother dies and his father abandons him. So he just starts having to work just by himself as A young teen, he works in a hotel. And his co workers one day over hear him singing. And they encourage him to enter a talent contest. And he does, and he wins it. And that's how he gets into vaudeville. So this was, like, right at that time where it was the very beginning of silent movies. This is when all of Los Angeles was orange groves. And then, like, three basically film studios, one of which was Max Sennett's Keystone Films. And Max Sennett's Keystone Films was, like, huge. And they would just go, basically take people out of vaudeville and start making movies of them.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So, like, if you see. You know, very few people have seen that much of Fatty Arbuckle. But, like, if you see any. And I highly recommend that you do it. Like, WC Field started in vaudeville also. And when you start in vaudeville and you work in vaudeville, you have to be able to do this crazy shit. So it's like you have to be an acrobat and you have to, like, do sleight of hand. And you have to kind of learn all the things so that you can be any act, basically. Like, if you're a comedian back then, you kind of had to be much more talented than you have to be.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Now to play to the back of the room, right?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And so, like, I mean, this is. I only saw the clips that they had in this documentary of Fatty Arbuckle. But he was, like, fat, big and fat. But he was super graceful. And he could kind of do anything. And it was, of course, a lot of physical comedy. But he would do these really funny things. Like, he would do a thing and trip and then he would recover and do almost like a ballerina move. So it was. I laughed out loud during this documentary.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I love it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Basically, they pull him out of vaudeville. He starts making short films for Mack Sennett. And he is basically kind of the fat guy foil for, like, Charlie Chaplin. He becomes the most popular comedian that make any of these films. People love him. And then they let him start directing his own. He hired. I believe he's the first person to hire. I shouldn't say first person, but he's one of the earliest people to work with and hire Harold Lloyd and Buster Keaton. But Buster Keaton worked under him for a while.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I have such a crush on Buster Keaton.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Buster Keaton is fucking amazing. So hot and legit. The big eyes.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yes.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. And legitimately amazing.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. And no, I mean incredible and also hot and well.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Cause, like, he did all those fucking stunts. Yeah, like, he did them.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They actually showed a clip Of a movie that was a very early Fatty Arbuckle movie. And in it it was called Backstage, I believe. And it was about these people that were like. It was like a silent film about a comedy about life in the theater. But there's a part where he's sitting there serenading a girl and the front of the house falls down over him that basically later on, Charlie Chaplin made famous and got super famous for. And it was basically like. Of Fatty Arbuckle. So it's. Sorry, it's a little bit like he was one of the original kings of comedy.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

He started the tour.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It was his idea. So he becomes huge at Mack Sennett Studios or Keystone Studios, and he starts making a bunch of movies, short movies with Mabel Norman, who was a famous actress at the time. And the two of them got crazy popular. It was super cute. They were like husband and wife. And then it would just be these little comedic kind of vignettes. And they got so popular that they were asked. In 1915, they were asked to go to. It was called the World's Something Fair in San Francisco. So I don't know if it was the World's Fair, the official one, or.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Like a specific fair for something.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. But they basically. Silent film was becoming this huge business. The film industry was like exploding and the PR industry around the film industry was exploding.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

So like podcasts.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

People are finally figuring it out.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They were like, what? We are the new Mabel Norman and Fatty Arbuckle. Do not say who's who.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

You're Mabel Arbuckle and I'm Fatty Norman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Nice, nice cover. Very fair. So by the summer of 1921, he had moved to Paramount Pictures. So I'm sure there was some kind of like. And I think this might. I don't know, I have theories about this. He moved from Mac Senate Studios to Paramount Pictures and he got paid a.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Million dollars a year in that money that time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Holy fuckballs. That is crazy.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's crazy. He signed a contract for $3 million. A three year contract for $3 million to make.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

We got it. One of the. Those right now in this.

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, I know. It's like. And back. This was fucking 1920. Like this was the Great Depression, essentially. Or well, ten years before, but still like bananas money. It was like back when people would be like, brother, can you spare a dime? And that was like a meaningful amount of money.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Penny candy, he.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Button candy, the most useless candy with pieces of paper stuck on it that has ever been invented. So that contract was for him to star in 18 silent films in three years. He had just made a movie called Crazy to Marry.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Tell me about it. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it was playing in theaters across the country. And he had. I think he had just finished six feature length films in seven months.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Can you fucking imagine?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's bullshit. That's like you make a full on movie a month and then he's like, guys, I'm tired. Let's go on vacation.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Take a nap, bro.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, so that was his plan. So him and two of his friends decide they're gonna drive up to San Francisco to have like a weekend of fun.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Do you know how long. I'm sorry, how long it would take to drive to San Francisco back then?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, fuck it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Three million's a lot of money. It would take you 14 and a half hours to drive to San Francisco, if that like.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And there would be no gas.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

None.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You'd have to bring gas with you.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

You have to wind your car up. Did they do that still then?

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. It would take you 29 hours to get up there.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

20 winds.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It would take you so much energy. All right, so there was no 5 back then?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

No, there was no 5. Freeway.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You were on that one the whole time?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yep.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. Okay. In the days leading up to this weekend, Fatty Arbuckle was not in the best of moods. Because he was having his Pierce Arrow automobile serviced. When he sat down on an acid soaked rag at the garage.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

What?

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the acid burned through his pants.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Oh my God.

[Georgia Hardstark]

To his buttocks, causing second degree burns. What the fuck kind of acid and that? He.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I don't know.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I get that's something that they did in the 20s, very common. Acid rags were everywhere. So he wanted to cancel the trip. But his friend. What's this guy's name? Al Fishback. The fuck is his name? Where is it? Somebody Fishback. I'll find it. That ban said no. We gotta go. It's gonna be fun. We've already planned it, whatever.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, but my butt is burned and I have to sit for 29 hours. Well, you know what he did?

[Georgia Hardstark]

He secured his friend. Fishback just secured a rubber padded ring for our buckle to sit on.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Can you secure a ga. Fuck yourself. For me to sit on?

[Georgia Hardstark]

For me to sit on. They made the drive up the coast to the St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Is that nice? Have you been there?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Very fancy.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Has the best like lobby. It's the one that's on Union Square at Christmas time. They have a humongous Christmas tree and they have a great bar.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I want to go.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We should totally go.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

We're going to Oakland. We have no time.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We do not jump on that BART to go sit in the bar at the St. Francis for three minutes. Bye, everybody. But it's the kind of place that, like, I don't know what the style is. I would guess Art deco, Georgian. Georgian. But it's. The ceilings are so high, and it's so gorgeous.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah, I love that shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Turns.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Goes a lot of the same.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So that's where they are.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They've got. So they have two rooms that are adjoined to a reception suite.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Jesus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So basically, party room in the center, two rooms off the sides.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

That's what we have booked for our trip.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Is that how we're doing it the whole time?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Mm.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. And then we were gonna pick people. You can come to the party suite.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

You can sit in the reception room, but you can't come into the suite.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You have to earn your way into the suite. Okay. So Fishback arranged everything. Now it's prohibition era.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Okay?

[Georgia Hardstark]

So there's no. Legally, there's no liquor, sure. But San Francisco is known as an open city, which meant there was fucking liquor everywhere.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Teacups abound.

[Georgia Hardstark]

That's right. Go, San Francisco, go. So Fishback has arranged the liquor to be delivered to the hotel room. And On Labor Day, September 5, 1921, Fatty Arbuckle awakes to find that there are many uninvited guests, at least uninvited from him in the reception room.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

How annoying.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And he also has a bunch of work to do. And I guess he was up there like they were gonna have fun, but he also, I guess, had a meeting. So he was walking around in his pajamas when he saw that. Basically the first thing that happened was his friends, like, I want to say, Al Fishback. And there's another guy named Lohman or something like that.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Al and Low Pushback Loman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So they went out, and when they came back, they were like, we just saw that actress. It was a woman named Victoria Rapp. And they're like, we just saw her in the hotel of a different. In the lobby of a different hotel. So we're gonna bring her over here. And so she comes over, a couple other people. A woman named Maud Delmont shows up after a little while. Now, Maud Delmont had a very bad reputation. She was known as. There's one guy in this documentary who said she'd basically been arrested for everything except murder.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Wow.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So she was known as a. A madam. She was known as a blackmailer. She had been arrested A bunch of time for fraud.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

This all sounds awesome, right? It sounds like she's in charge of her fucking destiny.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A couple people's destinies, actually. So she shows up after. I hope. I can't see any of these names anymore. My eyes are going insane.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Want me to look?

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's. I want to say Victoria. Anyway, the young pretty actress shows up. Maude shows up after. Then a couple other people show up. It turns into a party. Fatty Arbuckle is basically like, I can't fight this anymore, whatever. And he starts drinking too. So they're all drinking, and at one point, one of his friends who started the party and Maud Delmont go into one of the adjacent bedrooms, bathrooms. And they're in there for a while. And while they're in there and everybody else is partying, Virginia Rapp, who's been drinking with everybody and hanging out and having a good time, gets nauseous and feels sick. So she goes into that adjacent bedroom to go into the bathroom to get sick, but they're in there and they tell her to go into the other bathroom. So she goes into what is basically Fatty Arbuckle's bedroom, and she gets sick in that bathroom. So Fatty Arbuckle realizes he has to go to this meeting. So he goes in to take a shower, to shave and shower or whatever to get ready for the meeting. And he finds Virginia on the floor in his bathroom. And he assumes that she's just drunk and she can't handle her liquor. And so he gets her up off the floor and puts her on the bed. And then he goes into the bathroom, shuts the door, takes a shower, shaves, takes like 10 minutes in there, gets ready. And when he comes out, he sees that she's gotten sick again on the bed. So at that point, he goes out into the party and says, I think this girl is actually really sick. We should call a doctor. Call somebody. So they call a doctor. A doctor shows up, and a little while later, a female nurse shows up. They, you know, I was gonna say inspect her. They look at, you know, give her the once over. What's the word I'm looking for?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

What are we looking for? Not inspect. Not the once over.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's not inspect.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Exam. Examine.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They examine her. They examine her. There's. She's not. There's nothing wrong with her physically. She has no bruises on her. She's not been hurt in any way. But they see that she has a very bad fever and she's in a lot of pain and she's got the pain Is coming from her stomach area. And so they decide that she should go to a local hospital. So they take her out of there. Like a couple hours go by, I think. And then they finally get her out of there and they take her. Eventually they find out that they had taken her to a maternity hospital.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Was she having a miscarriage?

[Georgia Hardstark]

No, what they think is that. No, no, no. But what they think is that she was. Either she. Either her appendix burst or her bladder bursts. But they don't know because when the coroner finally got her body after she died.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

She dies in this hospital.

[Georgia Hardstark]

She died in the maternity hospital. Her body is brought back to Los Angeles, I believe. Or they did, the coroner in San Francisco. But I assume because she was an actress in Los Angeles, when the body is inspected by the coroner, all of her sex organs have been removed. So there's nothing to look at. They don't know. There's no reason for it. Also, they said bringing a woman who was sick in this way to the maternity hospital was a super weird decision.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

She's not gonna get the things she needs.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. She should have gone to the general hospital. So she basically suffered with whatever her internal illness was. Cause they all assumed she was drunk. They all just were like, oh, oh, it's some kind of floozy actress from LA who was at this, like, drank.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Too much, couldn't hold her liquor.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. With this party that they shouldn't have even had liquor in the first place. With all these actors and Hollywood types, these sinful Hollywood types. So basically they don't know when they leave San Francisco, Fatty and his friends, they just know that she was sick and she got taken to the hospital. They don't know anything else.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

So.

[Georgia Hardstark]

He gets a call from the San Francisco police saying, this girl died. Can you come up and answer some questions? And he's like, of course. So he goes up to San Francisco to answer some questions. And what he doesn't know is that Maud Delmont had told the police that. That Arbuckle had raped Virginia Rapp and that she had. That Maude had heard her screaming in the other room, that she knocked on the door and kicked on it. And after a delay, Arbuckle came to the door in his pajamas, wearing Rapp's hat, cocked at an angle, smiling. And behind him, Rapp was sprawled on the bed and moaning. And she said that Fatty had said to the actress, I've waited for you for five years and now I've got you. So. And then basically, she's told the police he did it. He attacked her. And that because he forced himself on her, that caused her bladder to burst. And that's why she was in that situation. So Fatty Arbuckle went up there to be like, yeah, here's what happened. Meanwhile, there were, like, a handful of witnesses that witnessed. The first way I told it to you, they all watched him walk in, like, watched her walk into the other room, come back out, go into the other room by herself, watched him walk in after her and then come back out, like, put her on the bed, come back out. Like, all the doors were open. Also, Maud Delmont was in the bathroom of the other bedroom with the door closed, fucking his friend. So there was no way she could have heard her screaming. And no one else that was in the middle room closer to her heard screaming at all. And they all attested to that. But the problem was, not only was it Prohibition, but the film industry was coming under a lot of scrutiny. And they were showing clips of movies where a man looked at a woman's ankle, and they both give each other the eye. So there's like this. It was pre Hays Code, so it's like.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It's crazy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Exactly. So there's a lot of people in the country that are like, alcohol is of the devil, and so are movies. So silent film. And he's basically the king of all of it, making a shit ton of money off of it. So the district attorney in San Francisco was a man named Matthew Brady. And he saw this case, who it was, what the scenario was, as the perfect political situation for himself, because he wanted to get in, have a career in politics. And he knew if he could put Fatty Arbuckle away as this rapist and basically headlines. Exactly. And also kind of like alcohol was part of it. And that's another reason. And just like the whole mix was perfect.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Bottle of alcohol being the fucking murder weapon. The wine bottle that he supposedly.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, right, yeah, exactly. That was gossip that actually came out way later that didn't come in, but him, like, basically using his body and smashing, like, smashing her to death. The whole thing was so. It kind of also perfect because he was such. When you see his face, it's just this big smile. He looks like a big moon face guy. All of his comedy was really light and cutesy. And so to be like, oh, this guy's a monster, was perfect for all of the tabloid rags. And William Randolph Hearst had basically had a field day with this story. They had just been the newspapers that came out about Fatty Arbuckle. And this rape and murder sold more than when Lusitania sank.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Jesus.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Like, it was the hugest story. And they never stopped. They actually took. The San Francisco police released a picture of Fatty Arbuckle when they were like, now you're under arrest. And he was just like, sorry, what? I came up here to answer your questions. So it's this picture of him standing there just looking completely like, what the fuck? And they took the picture, released it, and that went straight into the tabloids. And then the next picture they did, they actually early version Photoshopped, so it's him standing there looking off. And they Photoshopped bars in front of him so it looked like a reporter got in and took a picture of him sitting in jail, which they never did. So basically, they tried and convicted him in the newspaper. And people couldn't get enough of this story because it was one of the first big Hollywood scandals. I mean, I think it may have been the first big Hollywood scandal. And it was so graphic and so terrible that. I mean, that's. So anyway, the problem was that when they get in to get all their witnesses and their stories for trial, Maude Delmont cannot keep her story straight. So she had told them at first that she and Virginia Rapp were lifelong friends. Then the next time that they talk to her, she says that they just met days before the party. Also, they discovered then that she has this insane criminal record. A lot of people know her as Madame Black. She had procured women for parties where she knew wealthy male guests would find themselves accused of rape and blackmailed into paying her. So that was basically her whole thing that she did. Then there was the matter of the fact that there were telegrams that she had sent to attorneys in both San Diego and Los Angeles that read, we have Roscoe Arbuckle in a hole here. Chance to make some money out of him.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Holy shit.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. But even though he knew. He knew those facts, he still took the case to trial. And those newspapers never questioned Delmont's version of the events or ever talked about her background or what an unreliable witness she was. They just went after him relentlessly. And Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin vouched for his character and tried to speak out for him, but it was too late and his reputation was in shambles. Also, Fatty Arbuckle's lawyers introduced medical evidence showing that Rapp had had a chronic bladder condition. And her autopsy concluded that there were no marks of violence on her body. There were no signs that she had been attacked in any way. But the defense wouldn't let. Sorry. The prosecution wouldn't let the doctor who had treated Rapp at the hotel testify. Cause she had told the doctor that Fatty Arbuckle had not tried to sexually assault her. But the prosecutor got that point dismissed as hearsay. So that was not.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Sorry.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, so that didn't get in at all. And meanwhile, the defense was going to call witnesses that had damaging information about Virginia Rapp's past. And Fatty Arbuckle would not let them testify out of respect for the dead, he said. So he took the stand in his own defense. And jurors voted 10 to 2 for his acquittal.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Wow, 10 to 2.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Right. So there were two people that were holding out. And so then the prosecution tried him a second time. The jury deadlocked again. Oh, my God. And it wasn't until his third trial that Fatty Arbuckle allowed his attorneys to call the witnesses who had known Ralph to the stand. And that was only because his funds were depleted. He had spent $700,000 on his defense. His career was dead. They testified that Rapp had suffered previous abdominal attacks, drank heavily, often disrobed at parties after doing so, was promiscuous, and had an illegitimate daughter, which.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

None of which is. None of which is only the first one is the drinking.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And the abdominal attacks was relevant. But at that point, they were like, it's a character assassination attack. One of them also attacked Maud Delmont as the complaining witness that never witnessed. So they basically up there saying, that woman saw nothing and yet she was your main witness. But those were the only people that could say that. And he hadn't let them say it up until that point. So on April 12, 1922, the jury acquitted Arbuckle of manslaughter. And after deliberating for five minutes.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Jesus. Oh, that poor dude. And the poor woman, Regina.

[Georgia Hardstark]

After a week later, Will Hays, for whom the motion picture industry hired as a censor to restore its image because this was such a huge scandal that like, the entire motion picture industry was rocked. And Will Hayes banned Fatty Arbuckle from ever appearing on screen again. He would change his mind eight months later, but the damage had already been done. And Arbuckle changed his name to William B. Goodrich, or Will Be Goode. And he worked behind the scenes directing films for friends who remained loyal to him, barely earning a living in the only business he had ever known. And a Little more than 10 years later, in 1933, he had a heart attack and died in his hotel room. He was 46.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Holy fuck.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Wow. Yeah, that's really fucking depressing. I didn't know, it was like there was so much evidence that he hadn't done it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I know, it's weird. Like, no one talks about that. Well, I think it's like, why that guy was all fired up at the beginning of that special. But then when you actually hear it, it's that thing that makes perfect sense. Cause it's like the early days of getting people over a barrel and blackmailing.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Them and taking them and decency laws and all this crap. It makes me. You know, it makes me sad. I feel like if Virginia had lived, she would have fucking blown this off so much and been like this never. You know, it's like, sad when it's like, you're not doing justice for the victim. You're just. You're not helping the victim by accusing Fatty Arbuckle of doing this. Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It has nothing to do with the victim. She's taking advantage of, like, a horrible scenario.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. It's just bullshit at that point.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And also the idea that that woman was even invited to that party when she's, like, a known criminal, in my mind, it's like, I think there's. And I bet you if I did one hour more research, there's probably a lot of information about it, but there's probably a really good chance he was getting set up. If he was, like, making the most amount of money in show business.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It sounds like that's what she did.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, it's what she did, definitely. But, like, somebody probably had it out for him.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And wanted to bring him down specifically for some reason.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Was it his friend who insisted that he come with him to San Francisco?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Oh, I get it. That's fucked up, man.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Okay, we're back. It's an old case, but any updates?

[Georgia Hardstark]

I don't have any updates. There's. I do have several bits of business, of course, because you can always do a corrections corner, even from across the decade.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

That's what's beautiful. Like, you can always in your life remember that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. It's never too late to say I'm sorry. The two friends in San Francisco with Fatty Arbuckle. Their names were Fred Fishback and Lowell Sherman.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Thank God you cleared that up.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I genuinely am sorry from the bottom of my heart.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

The audience has been waiting for you.

[Georgia Hardstark]

They're just like. And you better apologize.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

My Grandpa Lowell is turning in his grave.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I said in the original, Al Fishback. And another guy, possibly named Lohman.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Al Fishback. That's a good fucking name.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Al Fishback would Be a good name for, like, a line of clothing. Al Fishback.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

My stepdad wears it. He loves Al Fishbone.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, so there have been biopics for this story discussed over the years. You know, people have pitched it for Chris Farley, for Louie Anderson, RIP the great Louis Anderson, incredible, wonderful man. Eric Stonestreet from Modern Family. They've all been attached. But a full feature film has never been made. But there, of course, have been nods to the Fatty Arbuckle kind of story throughout media over the years, lots of times as a joke. But it's actually kind of a tragic thing. It's like his name is forever. Forgive me for using the word besmirched, but it is. It's like that name always means a disgusting kind of sexual assault, and it isn't true.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

He was featured in that show that we loved called Not Matlock.

[Georgia Hardstark]

A Crime to Remember.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Not a Crime to Remember. Probably that one, too. But I'm thinking of the one where he was the lawyer.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yep. Old Ironsides, where he's so cute. What's it called back in la. La Lawyer.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

No, it's. He goes on. He go. Yeah, he goes on. Stand. And his name is.

[Georgia Hardstark]

His name. The lawyer's name is the name of the TV show. It's on hbo. It has. It had the best opening graphics of all time. Remember that? It would come up, and then it would be like the city behind it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Oh, yeah. That was so pretty. Are you talking about Perry Mason?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Perry Mason. God damn it. Perry Mason. Yes, we are.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Thank God we got that name right. Starring Al Fishback and Perry and Lohman. Lohman.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Sherman as the dad.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

As the dad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

God, I love that show. That's the one that has to come back for season three.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

For sure. For sure.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I might rewatch season two now that you're. If you insist.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I insist.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. We're about to listen to the end of episode 56. We do our good things.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Oh, yeah.

[Georgia Hardstark]

This is cute.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I like that. Um, do we have a good thing this week? Do you see that thing right there? Roomba. That's my good thing this week. It's the best thing that's ever happened to me. No, it's great. I'm serious. A Roomba.

[Georgia Hardstark]

We talk about it.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

It's a Roomba. It's a vacuum that you and your cats follow around the house and just watch and cheer on.

[Georgia Hardstark]

So what, you just set it and it just vacuums while you do other stuff?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Mm. Or while you follow it around and watch it?

[Georgia Hardstark]

How long does it take?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Well, however long you want it, you set it and forget it. I'm serious. It's like. And it gets all this cat hair, and we all follow it around. It's great.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Wow.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I know. What about you? I was just staring at this Roomba. That Roomba, the whole time. Not like actively staring at it, but lovingly gazing at it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, well, I think I told you this personally, but. Or maybe I talked about. I can't remember, but I went to see the Zodiac. Did I talk about that on the minisode?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

No, you talked about it to me at lunch yesterday.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay, that's good.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Good.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Okay. So Cinefamily, which is the movie theater in town that shows rad things often and that I love and need to rejoin. I was a member for a year, and then I was like, I never go to the movies. Why am I doing this? And then it's like, oh, because support. Keep businesses open that do shit. That's awesome. And that's a perfect example, because it's so cheap to be a member. And then they do things like this, which is. They did a special showing of the movie Zodiac.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

So fucking cool.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And it is the best movie. I keep thinking about it, because when you see it in the theater, like, the sound was really good. And that theater was really small. That theater used to be called the silent movie theater, which is kind of hilarious.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Where a guy got fucking shot and killed in.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. Did I ever tell you that story that they did a benefit at Largo for the. For the guy? It was two. It was a gay couple that ran the silent movie theater, and one got.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Shot by an ex employee. Right.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, they did this benefit. They raised money for the guy that was still alive, and then that guy got arrested because he had his lover murdered.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Okay. Whoops. Take that money back.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. I love that story, because Flanagan and John Bryan, they were down the street at Largo, and they were like, oh, my God, this terrible thing happened to this man. We have to raise money. And they did this whole huge. Like, they kept talking about it on all the shows, and they had all these special shows to raise money for the silent movie theater guy who was the criminal in the first place. Anyway, if you get a chance, and I don't know how you would. To see the movie Zodiac on the big screen. It is so. It's such a perfect movie.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. I haven't seen it in so long, but it's a great movie.

[Georgia Hardstark]

It's so good.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

That's awesome.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah. Yeah. That was super fun.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I have an update on my roomba situation.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, yeah.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Do not get a Roomba if you have cats, because cats like to barf everywhere. Oh, and the Roomba will just slide right over that. That was the last Roomba I owned. And I'm devastated because I want one so bad.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I loved that Roomba.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

I did. I totally forgot that the cats and I would follow it around. It was. It was fucking fascinating. And we were all just like, God, you're so excited.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And then suddenly the Roomba's like, wait, is this my job too? It's like the. Like in the Flintstones when, like, the garbage disposal is sassy or whatever. Your Roomba's like, I'm not eating cat.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Far if I can. Oh, you can't do it. It's just such a. It's just like a thing, you know, that you can't. You can't knit and sew and have a Roomba if you have a cat, period. Everyone does that.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Those things are not your. Those options are not for you.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

No, no.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Shut up, Mimi.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Mimi says, I'm still here in 2025, motherfuckers.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Mimi's like, guess what? I am here to say goodbye. I mean, should we wrap it up? Is that Mimi's cue?

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Let's do it. Mimi's Immortal. Let's wrap it up. If we were naming this today, this episode today, if it wasn't called Service Poodle, perhaps we would call it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Well, I would name it Mimi's Immortal. I mean, that's a. That's a great title right there.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Yeah. So good. What about It's a Roomba.

[Georgia Hardstark]

I mean, obviously it's gotta be that one.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Mimi's Immortal and it's a Roomba are the front runners.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yeah, that was good. That was a good one. That was fun times on that episode.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Thanks for listening to Rewind, you guys. We appreciate it.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Yes. And we're gonna let old us say goodbye to you so that Elvis can say goodbye and Mimi and Mimi.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Follow us on things. Stephen Ray Morse of the poor cast, thank you for being our guide through this. Fucking trippy. And. And stay sexy and don't get murdered. Bye, Elvis. You want a cookie, Mimi?

[Georgia Hardstark]

Oh, I think that's the new one.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Elvis, you want a cookie? Oh, hi. Okay.

[Georgia Hardstark]

You know, most of us don't treat our livers with any respect.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Amen. We just kind of assume they'll keep showing up for work even if we don't.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Fortunately, LiverMD is here to help.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

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[Georgia Hardstark]

The results Over 3.5 million people have transformed their health with LiverMD.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

When your liver struggles, you feel it fatigue, bloating, brain brain fog and slower recovery from those weekend indulgences. Take control of your liver health today with Liver MD.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Visit1md.org and use code murder to save 15 on your first order. Goodbye. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult, but it happens all the time to people just like you and people just like us.

[Karen Kilgariff]

I'm Lola Blanc.

[Georgia Hardstark]

And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the hosts of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation and the stuff psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Trust Me.

[Georgia Hardstark]

New episodes every Wednesday on Exactly Right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Liz went from being interested in true crime to living true crime.

[Georgia Hardstark]

My husband said, your dad's been killed.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

This is Hands Tied, a true crime.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Podcast exploring the murder of Jim Melgar. I was just completely in shock.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Liz's father murdered and her mother found.

[Georgia Hardstark]

Locked in a closet, her hands and feet bound. It didn't feel real at all. More than a decade on, she's still searching for answers. We're still fighting.

[Fatty Arbuckle]

Listen to Hands tied on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.