He Bought a Local Newspaper… Now He Makes $600K/YR

Summary

My First Million: "He Bought a Local Newspaper… Now He Makes $600K/YR"

Release Date: June 27, 2025
Host: Sam Parr and Shaan Puri
Description: Sam Parr and Shaan Puri delve into innovative business ideas influenced by current market trends and opportunities, occasionally featuring renowned guests for collaborative brainstorming.

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1. The Local Newspaper Conundrum

Overview:
The episode opens with a discussion about the challenges faced by small-town newspapers in the United States. Despite being profitable—some making up to six figures annually—many publications are shutting down because owners, often elderly, cannot find successors to take over the business.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Succession Issues: Many local newspaper owners are in their 80s and have built sustainable businesses but lack heirs or interested parties to continue operations.
• Market Stability: Contrary to the common narrative of declining local media, these newspapers maintain a stable subscriber base and lucrative local advertising.

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2. Insights from Matthew Prince's Tweet

Timestamp: [00:38]

Highlight:
Shaun Puri references a tweet from Matthew Prince, CEO of Cloudflare, advocating for young entrepreneurs to purchase and run local newspapers as a pathway to meaningful community impact.

Notable Quote:

Shaun Puri [01:05]: "If you're a recent college grad and not sure what to do, find a small town you could love with a local newspaper whose owners are ready to retire. Raise the capital to buy it, run it with the community's interest at heart."

Discussion:

• Contrasting Opinions: While Matthew Prince sees buying a local newspaper as rewarding, a follower criticizes this advice as incongruent with the high-income and influence Prince currently possesses.
• Opportunity for Entrepreneurs: The hosts discuss the viability of acquiring multiple local newspapers, emphasizing their stable profitability and the monopolistic advantage in local advertising markets.

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3. The Future of Local Newspapers

Timestamp: [04:10]

Key Points:

• Sustainability: Local newspapers in towns with populations ranging from 5,000 to 30,000 remain financially viable.
• Advertising Revenue: Local businesses, especially hospitals, prefer advertising in these newspapers, ensuring consistent cash flow.
• Entrepreneurial Opportunity: The market presents a promising opportunity for entrepreneurs to consolidate and expand local journalism, ensuring these publications do not disappear.

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4. Shaun Puri's Berkeley Talk and 'White Belt Businesses'

Timestamp: [06:03]

Overview:
Shaun Puri shares his experience delivering a talk at Berkeley on starter businesses, termed "white belt businesses," aimed at young entrepreneurs seeking manageable ventures to begin their entrepreneurial journey.

Notable Story:

• Class Inspiration: Inspired by a Duke University class on getting rich, which balanced personal finance with exposure to diverse career paths.
• Life-Changing Advice: Shaun recounts a pivotal moment when a speaker encouraged students to pursue entrepreneurial quests, emphasizing that failures are merely stories worth sharing.

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5. Reflections on Entrepreneurship and Startup Challenges

Timestamp: [08:44]

Discussion Highlights:

• Engagement with Youth: Despite thorough preparation, Shaun's talk at Berkeley received minimal engagement, reflecting the disconnect between entrepreneurial enthusiasm and the immediate priorities of young students.
• Starter Businesses: Emphasis on starting with simple, manageable businesses to gain experience without overwhelming risk, likening it to "beginner's level" ventures before tackling more ambitious projects.

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6. Steve Ballmer's Philanthropy and Microsoft Insights

Timestamp: [13:49]

Overview:
The hosts delve into insights from Steve Ballmer's appearance on the Acquired podcast, focusing on his philanthropic efforts and business philosophy.

Notable Quote:

Steve Ballmer: "I'm trying to give it all away, and I can't find enough people who can accept the money."

Key Takeaways:

• Philanthropic Challenges: Despite immense wealth, Ballmer faces difficulties in effectively distributing his fortune due to a shortage of dedicated recipients.
• Corporate Leadership: Ballmer highlights the humility and collaborative spirit of leaders like Satya Nadella, who prioritize the company's best interests over personal power.

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7. Gary Vee's Bullish and Bearish Perspectives on Companies

Timestamp: [17:08]

Segment Overview:
Gary Vaynerchuk participates in a game segment where he rates various companies as "Bullish" or "Bearish," showcasing his investment optimism.

Notable Interactions:

• Company Evaluations: Gary expresses strong bullish sentiments towards major tech companies like Meta, Nvidia, and Microsoft, while displaying uncertainty about others.
• Market Insights: The discussion underscores the difficulty in consistently identifying high-growth companies, illustrating the volatility and unpredictability of stock markets.

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8. The Role of Enthusiasm in Business

Timestamp: [15:32]

Discussion Points:

• Enthusiasm as a Skill: Shaun emphasizes that enthusiasm is a cultivable skill critical for team dynamics and leadership, drawing parallels to Steve Ballmer's energetic leadership style.
• Team Impact: Enthusiastic individuals significantly enhance team morale and productivity, yet their importance is often underappreciated in professional settings.

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9. The Rise of AI and AI Politicians

Timestamp: [35:05]

Overview:
The conversation shifts to the potential integration of AI in politics, highlighting the creation of AI-driven political content and campaigns.

Key Insights:

• AI in Campaigns: Discussion on how AI tools like 11 Labs can translate political messages into multiple languages, broadening reach and engagement.
• AI Avatars: The use of AI avatars to generate content that mimics human interaction, potentially revolutionizing political campaigning by enabling constant and personalized outreach.

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10. Charisma in Modern Politics

Timestamp: [27:07]

Key Points:

• Charismatic Leadership: The episode underscores the paramount importance of charisma in political success, referencing historical figures like JFK and contemporary examples.
• Influence of Media: Media platforms have amplified the role of charismatic communication in elections, often prioritizing likability over policy depth.

Notable Quote:

Shaun Puri: "Charisma matters more than ideas in reality."

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11. Challenges in Investment: Picking Winners

Timestamp: [47:46]

Discussion Highlights:

• Investment Pitfalls: The hosts discuss the inherent difficulty in consistently selecting high-performing stocks, citing examples of failed predictions and the unpredictability of market success.
• Personal Anecdotes: Shaun shares his own investment experiences, emphasizing that even with thorough research, outcomes can be unfavorable.
• Market Volatility: The conversation acknowledges the high risk associated with attempting to identify and invest in potential high-growth companies.

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12. Closing Remarks and Sponsor Messages

Note:
As per the podcast's format, sponsors such as HubSpot and Mercury were initially mentioned. However, following the user's instructions, these sections have been omitted from the summary to focus solely on the content of the episode.

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Conclusion

In this episode of My First Million, Sam Parr and Shaan Puri explore the intriguing intersection of traditional media sustainability, entrepreneurial opportunities in local journalism, the nuanced role of charisma in leadership, and the emerging influence of AI in various sectors. Through engaging discussions and insightful anecdotes, the hosts shed light on the complexities of business growth, investment strategies, and the evolving landscape of political campaigning. Notable contributions from industry leaders like Matthew Prince and reflections on figures such as Steve Ballmer further enrich the dialogue, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of the multifaceted topics at hand.

Transcript

[Sam Parr]

So the article tells a story of multiple 80 something year old guys who own publications that are making that are fine businesses. Maybe they make six figures a year in profit, but they can't find anyone to take it over. So they're literally just shutting it down.

[Arielle Pardes]

I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it like no days off on a road, let's travel, never looking.

[Shaun Puri]

Should we start with this? This tweet, its media gazer, which I guess some media publication, commentary on media companies. It says small town newspapers are shutting down due to lack of a succession plan, not financial issues. In nearly a dozen US States, this is a growing problem. Okay.

[Sam Parr]

And so the article tells a story of multiple 80 something year old guys who own publications that are making that are fine businesses. Maybe they make six figures a year in profit, but they can't find anyone to take it over, so they're literally just shutting it down. And here we have a tweet from Matthew Prince. I think his name is Matthew is worth, I think something like four or five billion dollars. He's the CEO of Cloudflare. Do you want to kind of read what he says? Yeah.

[Shaun Puri]

So he says, actually this is a recipe for a really rewarding life. If you're a recent college grad and not sure what to do, find a small town you could love with a local newspaper whose owners are ready to retire. Raise the capital to buy it, run it with the community's interest at heart. You'll not get too rich, but you'll do well. More importantly, you'll be a hero to the community and have influence even early in your career. You'll meet the love of your life at some point, at some event you otherwise wouldn't get invited to. You'll have kids who will proudly call you their parent and make this corner of the world meaningfully better. If anyone wants to seriously follow this recipe and just lacks the capital, happy to talk.

[Sam Parr]

So I think that's an amazing insight, but the true insight. So someone chirps at em and they say something like, go ahead, what do they say? I can't read it all.

[Shaun Puri]

So literally the guy's name who's replying is some guy. So I'm not, not even disparaging this guy. Some guy tweets at him and says this is the sort of unwittingly funny stuff that wealthy people say that 130 IQ guys should be content with an imaginary small town life lived in anonymity near. I don't even know what this word is. Being 180 degrees from their own choices, which deliver untold wealth and influence. I don't even. What is this guy saying? I don't even understand the sweet. He's basically saying, like, this is something that. That wealthy dudes say. That's so funny because it's so wrong that a guy would be happy doing this is what he's saying.

[Sam Parr]

And here's why. I like Twitter. So, Matt. Matt Prince. I don't. He's not high profile. He's not like an average. Like, the average person has no idea who this is, but he's worth $5 billion, and it's so interesting to get his insight. So this is. This is the tweet that I really care about. And I just. The rest was for context. Read this next one.

[Shaun Puri]

All right, so he says, I have. He just replies to some guy. He goes, I have untold financial wealth and I own a local newspaper, so I have some perspective. Like Warren Buffett likes to say, surprisingly little changes when you move from upper middle class to truly rich. Houses are houses, cars are cars, and watches are stupid. That's so good. What's more important is meaning. I feel lucky to have achieved financial wealth while chasing meaning that is super rare. And I feel incredibly fortunate to have gotten both. But if you're early in your career and decide, I'd rather optimize for meaning than financial wealth, I think this is a better path than most would consider. Example, volunteer for the Peace Corps. It will actually make you a good leaving, and you'll have incredible influence and meaning within your community. And if you later decide to go for untold financial wealth, always remember, Rupert Murdoch's empire began with the Adelaide Advertiser, which he bought when he was 21.

[Sam Parr]

How fantastic is that?

[Shaun Puri]

This is really great. Although, you know, not to be a reply guy, but, like, Cloudflare is not the Peace Corps or owning a small town newspaper in a community. So, like, is he saying that Cloudflare was his meaning thing or he did something before that? Do you know?

[Sam Parr]

That's his meaningful thing?

[Shaun Puri]

But the point is, for one, he has another one. So he's like some guy goes, how is one supposed to make a good living from a small town newspaper? Do you have a model, a new model for profitability, blah, blah, blah. I want to hear a breakdown. And he said, Matthew Prince says, the local paper we bought cash flowed around 600,000 when we bought it. We've wanted to run it as a nonprofit, so we plow that all back into the. Into expanding coverage. But it is not the case that these are bad businesses. They're just not big businesses.

[Sam Parr]

So the takeaways of multiple, multiple things. One, newspapers are dying. Local newspapers. We're talking towns that have 5,000 people, 10,000 people, 30,000 people. They are not dying. And if you read the replies, you'll see people who are saying, I own a local newspaper that does $500,000 in EBITDA. Like, there's. There. There are replies here. And Matthew. Matt just said one of those replies where he explains the numbers. But two, it's just so fascinating to hear this guy's perspective who has so much. And I actually agree with him. And I also think that there is a big opportunity to buy a bunch of these. But you can just start with one. And I don't think local newspapers are going to go away anytime soon, to be honest. I think that they have a very stable subscriber base. And what Matt says in there, he says something like hospitals and other. Like local businesses. They are dying to advertise in local newspapers. And that business, while small, is doing great and is very. It's a monopoly.

[Shaun Puri]

All right, this episode is brought to you by HubSpot. They're doing a big conference. This is their big one they do called Inbound. They have a ton of great speakers that are coming to San Francisco September 3rd to September 5th. And it's got a pretty incredible lineup. They have comedians like Amy Poehler. They have Dario from Anthropic Dwarkesh, Sean Evans from Hot Ones. And if you're somebody who's in marketing or sales or AI and you just want to know what's going on, what's coming next. It's a great event to go to. And hey, guess what? I'm going to be there. You can go to inbound.com register to get your ticket to Inbound 2025 again, September 3rd through 5th in San Francisco. Hope to see you there. Okay. I love this one. 10 out of 10. Fine. Good job. I gave a talk at Berkeley that was about starter businesses or called white belt businesses a few months ago.

[Sam Parr]

Wait, let's reflect on that. That's pretty cool.

[Shaun Puri]

What? Giving a talk at Berkeley.

[Sam Parr]

I don't know. That sounds cool to me. Like, I never got to be go to fancy challenges.

[Shaun Puri]

It was hilarious. So I'm like, I'm gonna give this talk. And I think I've told this story before, but my entire life shifted because I was in a random class at Duke. I planned to be a doctor. I had taken the MCATs, all of it. And then I took this one class by this amazing woman, Lisa Keister. And she herself had graduated 10 years earlier and gotten wealthy, lived an interesting life and came back to teach. And she decided, what class did the kids actually need? And the class was called Getting Rich. It's kind of like this podcast, my first millions, like sort of a pretty crude title. Her class was called Getting Rich. And actually it was two things. It was personal finance, so you'd learn about like mortgages and savings and how that all worked compounding like that. And then secondly, she would invite speakers in just so that we would get exposed to other ideas of what a life could be besides doctor, lawyer, consultant, banker, which was like, you know, at a school like duke, that's where 90% of the students are devoting their energy. And a guy came in and he gave a talk and it literally changed my life. It's not even something he said. I just kind of was like, this guy seems like he's having fun. He doesn't seem like he's that much smarter than me. Like, you know, maybe smarter now, but he's, you know, he's saying at the beginning he didn't know shit about shit. And that's where I am today. And like, why don't I just do what this guy's doing? And the last thing he had said was like, he's like, look, if you go try to do something entrepreneurial or interesting and it doesn't work out, this is America. That baby, like the story is a currency for you. And look, I hire kids like you, and guess what? You all have the same top three fourths of the resume. You go to school, you got a three point something gpa, you have some stupid extracurricular activities, you got an internship at some big corporation where you didn't really make an impact. The only thing that differentiates any of you guys is the other section at the bottom of your resume. Like, have you done anything? Have you gone on any interesting quests? And so he's like, go on an interesting quest. You have nothing to lose right now. You don't have kids, you don't have a mortgage. Just go try some shit. And if you fail, if it works, fantastic. If it fails, don't worry, it creates a great story that guys like me like to hear. So that like really shifted my life. And so I get, I get invited to go give this talk at Berkeley and I'm like, I'm gonna do this, man. I'm gonna change someone's life. I'LL be. Go be a life changer today. And I prepped my ass off. Like, I really tried. Like, I, like, thought about it. I spent two days really, like, full. Like, just 10 hours a day just working on this one talk. Two days doesn't sound like a lot, but, like, I show up to these podcasts pretty cold. Like, I can wing it with the best of them. So for me to really put 20 hours into one talk, I'm gonna give to 50 kids that didn't. You know, that was unusual for me.

[Sam Parr]

You sound like the Kenny Powers of giving a talk, man. You're like, get ready, kids. I'm gonna make you piss tears.

[Shaun Puri]

Exactly. Hold on to your butts. I'm about to rock your world. So I go in, and guess what? These kids really just don't give a fuck. Within two minutes of the talk. And again, I'm trying to fire on all cylinders. It's interactive. I'm cracking jokes. I got a story I'm doing. I have a big promise at the beginning. And I look around and I just remembered vividly in that moment, I was like, oh, I remember being 19. You're not even out of school yet. Like, the whole. The real world is a. It's a distant land far away at this point. You're just trying to. You're like, okay, I have to be here till five, and then I'm going to go eat. And then I have that paper to write.

[Sam Parr]

Three years out of your target demo, too. Like, they're Indian. They go to Berkeley, and you're like thinking like, all right, perfect. This is my demo. And then you're like, shit, they're still 19. I need to wait till they're 21 until they've heard of me.

[Shaun Puri]

Exactly. So, honestly, it was a kind of a giant waste of time. I don't think I shifted anyone's life. I think I changed exactly zero lives. But I really tried. And one of the principles in there was like, when you get out of Berkeley instead of getting a job, like, consider, you know, doing a company. But for most of you, you don't have the next Facebook, you don't have the next big idea, and maybe you're not even talented enough to handle. It's kind of like if. If, you know, Jessica Alba walked through that door and she's like, you. It's like, did. You couldn't handle Jessica Alba right now. Anyways, don't worry about it. That's not your problem. Like, you need to go, you know, put your hand under Mindy's Shirt in the back, behind the bleachers over there. Like, that's the level you're at right now. And so I basically was like, you need a starter business, a white belt business. And I was giving him ideas for what simple starter businesses are.

[Sam Parr]

What was this your analogy? Did you just.

[Shaun Puri]

No, I just did that one just now. I thought you probably good. Yeah, well, see, the funny thing is I have you. And I'm like, sam's gonna love this. He's gonna love, hate this. And then I'm like, ari's just gonna hate this. And sure enough, as I'm saying it, that's what I got. I got Sam laughing, but facepalming and Ari just looking off into the distance wondering, how did I end up here? Why do I have this job?

[Unknown]

Oh, my God.

[Sam Parr]

No, that's a. That's a fantastic analogy because it's very true. Everyone dreams of, like, the Jessica Alba. Alba doing that. And you're like, wait, what do I do? What do I do with my hands? You know what I mean? It's perfect.

[Shaun Puri]

Exactly. You are not prepared for Jessica Alba yet. And that's okay.

[Sam Parr]

You just need some reps. And so what's. What's the point of this? What are you going to show me?

[Shaun Puri]

Oh, I guess the tie to that was, I think owning a local newspaper is a fantastic version of a star business to run. Was that not obvious? So crystal clear to me, the connection.

[Sam Parr]

Show me this story about Steve Ballmer. And then also I want to see the Gary Vee one.

[Shaun Puri]

Okay, two great choices. Excellent choices off the menu. All right, this is from, I believe, Steve Ballmer goes on the acquired podcast.

[Sam Parr]

It was really good. It was so good.

[Shaun Puri]

I agree. I didn't watch it, but I agree. And the clips have been good. And so he's telling the story and they go, do you guys know the story of Kelou at Microsoft? He was one of the most pivotal things at Microsoft. And then the host go, why? Why? I mean, I knew he's important, but please tell the story. And Steve goes, he was pivotal in a way that you won't even know. So he goes, first of all, he's a brilliant guy, great guy. He's at Yahoo, and he went to grad school with the head of Microsoft Research, Harry. And so the setup here is that Satya Nadella, who's now the CEO of Microsoft, was running Bing at the time. Bing is trying to compete with Google, and Harry runs the research program there. And Harry comes and he goes, look, this guy Key is a genius. We have to hire Key. I don't know if Key wants to work for us. We got to learn from this guy. We got to hire this guy. So he's like, satya, Nadella, Steve Ballmer, and Harry all fly down to California to meet with this guy, Key Liu. And they talk to Key, and they're like, dude, you're right. This guy's brilliant, and we're learning about him. And then at one point, Key walks away, leaves the room, goes to the restroom or something, and he goes, satya throws out this idea. He goes, we should hire KE and I should work for him. He goes, so Harry, who's all in because he worked with him, Harry works for Satya. And Satya's like, we should not only hire this guy, I should work for him. I should report to him, like, gives up power, basically. So they. They call him and their relations. Like, he listen, you know, he was thinking about taking a job somewhere else, but he ends up joining. And he goes. And then the host goes, so what? What did he do at Microsoft? He goes, what? I just told you. He told me about Satya. He goes, I love Satya. And we were giving him more and more responsibilities anyways. But when I saw that this guy would do the right thing for the company, he would give up power to bring in a more talented person and agree to work for him. He didn't have ego that got in the way. I knew that Satya was the guy. And now Satya has become the CEO of Microsoft and led Microsoft on this incredible run.

[Sam Parr]

That's so good. That's a great story.

[Shaun Puri]

It's up a thousand percent. And for a company as big as Microsoft to go up a th percent and now is a $3 trillion company, all, you know, under Satya's kind of regime, I thought that was just a badass story, right?

[Sam Parr]

And later on in the podcast, Steve Ballmer talks about philanthropy, and he, I. I don't know how rich he is, But I think 100 billion or plus. And he was like, the acquired guys were like, your wealth is growing, I think 20% a year. You know, $20 billion, whatever. He goes, yeah, I'm trying to give it all away. And he goes, you're forgetting about something. And the host goes, what? He goes, you know, Microsoft pays a dividend, so just my dividends are making me $1 billion a year. And he's like. He goes. He goes, I'm trying to give it all away, and I can't find enough people who can accept the money.

[Shaun Puri]

Well, Steve, we would love to help you with this problem. We're a helpful bunch over here.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, he was talking about how he's like, I forget the capital appreciation of this or the stock appreciation. Lately it's been what, 15% a year? I forget it's something like magnificent where he's earning tens of billions of dollars from that. And yeah, he corrected the guys when they said how wealthy he is. He goes, you're forgetting about our dividend, which pays me 1 billion.

[Shaun Puri]

You know, he's just been sitting on that, by the way. You know, he's like, these mother out here don't know. They don't know how I'm balling.

[Sam Parr]

It was a really great podcast. It was like three hours long and it was fantastic. And he gets made fun of. Ballmer gets made fun of a bunch for that one video where he just looks goofy. But he, he. He's the. A great salesman and he's way more technical than people realize. Ballmer's a genius.

[Shaun Puri]

That's cool. I mean, you gotta, you gotta be special. I mean, there's luck is involved, but I think it's so easy to write people off. And he's a great example of enthusiasm as a skill. I've talked about this in a bunch of other podcasts, but enthusiasm is a actual skill. And that video that people make fun of him, the developers, Developers, developers, developers. To me, that's like watching, you know, Vince Carter dunk or something like that, right? It's like this is a guy who probably brought a shit ton of energy and enthusiasm and belief and to the team in an unwavering way and at an unusual level. And yeah, that was obviously funny to laugh at. I get it. I thought it was funny as shit too. But enthusiasm is a skill and I love it because people don't even think of it as a skill. But we all know it when we see it. Like, if you ever worked with somebody who's really enthusiastic and is a believer in what you're doing and brings good energy every day and doesn't get like, doesn't get worn down and doesn't get buckled by adversity, you love that person. That person's clearly valuable to the team. You would hate if that person left your team. Yet nobody talks about enthusiasm as a skill or something you could practice, develop, or at least even celebrate that you have. It's something, you know, seems like something sort of for dumb people. This episode is brought to you by HubSpot Media. They have a cool new podcast that's for AI called the Next Wave it's by Matt Wolf and Nathan Lands, and they're basically talking about all the new tools that are coming out, how the landscape is changing, what's going on with AI tech. So if you want to be up to date on AI tech, it's a cool podcast. You could check out, Listen to the Next Wave wherever you get your podcast.

[Sam Parr]

What's. What's the scary V1?

[Shaun Puri]

This is really funny. All right, this is Gary. Love Gary Vee. Gary, I love you. This is also hilarious. So they're playing a game called Bullish and Bearish where the host is going to tell him a company name and he has to decide is he a bull or a bear on it. Watch this.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Meta Bullish. Reddit Bullish Alphabet Bullish.

[Sam Parr]

Way more.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm not educated enough to give an answer on that, to be honest.

[Sam Parr]

Nvidia.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I feel like if I spent 10 hours educating myself, I'm like, okay, this is not sustainable to be this crazy.

[Sam Parr]

Disney.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Disney. Very bullish. I think intellectual property is one of the most underrated businesses of the future. VR and everything. I don't think people understand how big owning IP is going to be. Tesla, bullish. Microsoft, Very bullish.

[Sam Parr]

Open AI.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

I'm bullish. Amazon, very bullish. Bullish.

[Shaun Puri]

Alibaba bullish.

[Sam Parr]

Bite Dance.

[Shaun Puri]

Tik Tok company.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Bullish.

[Sam Parr]

Even though it might be banned.

[Gary Vaynerchuk]

Bullish.

[Shaun Puri]

I'm bullish. Okay, don't. Even before that word gets out of your mouth, I'm booked. Bullish. What am I gonna do? I'm bullish. Dude. How funny is this?

[Sam Parr]

I love Gary. It sucks because she picked like, honestly, I can't hate.

[Shaun Puri]

I'm also pretty bullish on all the, all the tech companies that. All the best companies in the world.

[Sam Parr]

Amazon and ChatGPT. So funny, dude. People forget. I, I think VaynerMedia. I track it because I like Gary and I think that it's easy to dismiss him as like a, a guru, but you know, Vayner Benia is doing something like $300 million a year right now.

[Shaun Puri]

I did not know that. And what do you say? You track it? Where, where are you getting this information from?

[Sam Parr]

So I actually. Do you remember how I told you I had this document where I track companies and I like I, I, I, I. Where I will make a timeline of their life and like, at different ages, they do different things. I track it with a variety of companies as well. And VaynerMedia, I was curious about their trajectory and he was growing the company, like, at a really good clip. Like, it was doubling For a couple of years and it was still growing at like 50% for a couple of years. And so I just wanted to check in and add to my document. And over the last three or four years he's grown it to something like 250 million a year in revenue. And if you Google VaynerMedia revenue, he actually fairly public about it lately of where it's at, but it's in the 200, 300 range.

[Shaun Puri]

200 to 300 million a year?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah.

[Shaun Puri]

And what do they do now? Is it just marketing services or what? What's going on?

[Sam Parr]

So Vayner X, which is now the holding company in 2024, was on track to do 300 million in revenue and this was written in December of 24. So yeah, you could assume that did in the 300 million range. Yeah, it does. They do social media. It's the same shit, just they manage people's social media stuff.

[Shaun Puri]

I mean it's got to be more of that. Manage people's social media stuff's got to be more of that.

[Sam Parr]

I think that's the bulk of it. They do social media advertising and campaigns. So like if you're Samsung and you want to run ads on Facebook and you want to make really good ads.

[Shaun Puri]

I believe let's ignore VaynerMedia board. What is the most interesting thing that's come out of your tracking people manually year by year, borderline creepy stalker thing that you're doing?

[Sam Parr]

What's interesting to me is a few things. One, the ability to grow is it gets harder and harder. But like the people who are like really big animals, they just figure out how to do it. And that's really fascinating to me. But occasionally even companies that are growing quickly, they'll have two or three years of no or little growth. And the reason why I like to do this research is it helps me understand, I think that it's the same way when you talk to your rich friends and you talk about money with them, you start to normalize money. And that's why I do this stuff.

[Shaun Puri]

Where like it sounds like it's like a. Almost like an emotional regulation because entrepreneurship is this long, longer than you want, more up and down thing than you want. And seeing that the people, the things you admire today either a took a long time or had, you know, multiple flat ears, it makes you not feel like shit when you're in one of those, you know, periods that. Is that it?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because I think I showed you the revenue chart or no, the. So I've shown you charts Before a Business Insider, which is a company I also used to do this for, and they've grown like crazy, but there was like three years where every single month they actually didn't grow. And I was like, this chart looks great because we've zoomed out to 15 years. But zoom in on those three years and imagine feeling that way for nearly a thousand days. That doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good at all.

[Shaun Puri]

The whole life of the company right now is three years. Imagine this whole time just flat, you know?

[Sam Parr]

Or I'll give you another example, Replit. You know, we've had Amjad on the podcast and that it was one of our biggest ones. They just announced the other day that they hit 100 million in revenue. That's huge, right? Well, what he kind of said, like, in a small comment, like in a reply, is that I believe last year or the year before, they're at 10 million in revenue. So they went from 10 million to 100 million in record time, like one year or two years, something like that. But what he told us on the podcast is that he started the company eight years ago, which means from years zero to eight, he got to 10 million in revenue, which is not impressive. That's not. That's. That's neat. That's not impressive. And what's. That's just insane to me that he kept at it for eight years and then. And. And tell me if I'm getting my numbers wrong, but he kept at it for that long and then success was like, in two years.

[Shaun Puri]

Yes and no. I think you're right. But it's not like it was just failing that whole time. Because if you look at the user growth of developers, and I think I tweeted this out with it, I'll find it. But, like, basically they grew. They were growing exponentially in number of users who were developers. So that was, you know, that was also happening at that same time. And so it's not as. It's not as like, oh, man, you know, it's just, you know, suddenly it starts to work. Like, I mean, look at this. This is Paul Graham tweeting about Replit before. Before they even turned on monetization. This is back in 2020.

[Sam Parr]

But, like, what year does that go to?

[Shaun Puri]

This is 2015 to 2020, like midway through 2020, like, or end of 2020. So basically 2021. And so they had 5 million developers, programmers using their thing. And he. Paul, Paul talks about. He says this graph is impressive not just for its perfect exponential shape, but the numbers 5 million users is a lot. When those users are programmers. Imagine how many users their users will have of their apps. And I think the crazy thing about Replit is that basically they pivoted the entire company when they were at a billion dollar valuation. I invested in Replit. I think at a 800 million-ish valuation, 8 or 900 million valuation. I invested in the fund and I invested personally because I was like such a big believer in this. And they had pretty much no revenue at the time, but it was this type of growth. And I love the product and I loved amjad. I was like, this guy's a savage. And they have a, they built an incredible product that I think will have a network effect over time. And then they pivoted the entire business to say it's not about like young programmer. Cause I thought, oh, they're getting young programmers to start coding on Replit and maybe those people will never leave. They'll code their whole career on replit. And then when AI happened, they pivoted basically the entire company to. Now it's not even for programmers. It's for people who don't code typically to make things right. It's for non, non engineers to suddenly be able to be engineers, to be able to, to. To write, create software for software creators. And now that's ramped to 100 million at 10x, they're 10x the revenue in one year. So now I look like a genius investing in this thing. But I really didn't even invest in this because they pivoted. They like basically shifted the entire user. Who is the user and what is the use case, you know, afterwards.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, I mean, this is just insane. I, I use Replit probably three or four times a week. It's really fun.

[Shaun Puri]

I just asked Chat GPT to make this. This is Sam stalking all these businesses.

[Sam Parr]

Dude, I do this like crazy. I'm gonna have to share this doc. I just, I like tracking numbers.

[Shaun Puri]

To me, when we first met, you were like, I took every billionaire and I tried to figure out what they were doing at age 30. And I was like, what? And you were like, Jack Dorsey. You know, at age 30 his net worth was only whatever. And I was like, how do you know this? And why do you know this? What are you doing? And you're like, by the time I'm 30, my goal is to have X. I think we were, well, we probably met when we were 24, 25 years old, something like that.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah.

[Shaun Puri]

And you were like, when I'm 30, I want to have $20 million in the bank. That was your number. And you were like, look at this. I'm. I'll be ahead of Jeff Bezos and Jack Dorsey and these guys. I was like, yo, this guy's a sicko. But I like it.

[Sam Parr]

It was the. I should call, like, if I teach a class, it's going to be called, like, how to Become an Economic Animal. Unfortunately, like, there's way. Levels. There's many levels to this. And I. There's many people who are way above me. And I didn't understand, like, how exponential growth works. But, hey, you know, I think I got in the arena of what I was aiming for.

[Shaun Puri]

All right, we got to talk about the new mayor. Not because this is a politics podcast. I don't know. Actually. I didn't even know this guy existed until three days ago, to be honest with you. But you're moving to New York and you seem to know about this guy, and I am following him only from a business and marketing perspective. I have a business and marketing take on this guy. But can you first set the context for people like me who are not following who this New York City. He's the mayor, right? That's what he's.

[Sam Parr]

He's gonna be the Democrat who's running for mayor. So it was the Democrats were. I don't even know the right terms, but nomination. And he won. So basically it was him and Cuomo.

[Shaun Puri]

Because New York is very Democratic. He's most likely to win. Is that why people are freaking out? Because normally if he's just a candidate.

[Sam Parr]

You know, more likely than not. The issue is. The issue has a bunch of issues. Basically, every politician is corrupt. So Mayor Cuomo, or the cuom, was running for mayor. He was previously the governor. He got in trouble for, like, asking his co workers to have sex with him. And he was the guy running against this guy, the current mayor, Mayor Adams, he has accepted bribes. He is going to be running as an independent versus this guy. And so we're kind of, like, stuck.

[Shaun Puri]

With, like, a bunch of, like, paper scissors.

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, it's like, you know, South Park. They. It's like a douche or a turd sandwich. Who are you going to vote for? That's kind of like what we're working with here. The. The gist of this guy is that he's incredibly charismatic. He's 32 years old. He believes in a lot of crazy things. That's my opinion. Crazy, but basically a lot of socialist things. So, for example, he wants to freeze rent, meaning you can't raise Rent on, on, on. I think something like 2 million different apartments, right? Different rent stabilized apartments. He also wants to create government owned grocery stores and a handful of things like that that are very controversial to people who don't like socialism, but amongst young people who are very angry about a lot of things that they should be angry about, like housing costing a lot of money versus the wage growth. But he's super charismatic and so he won over young people's votes and okay, great, great summary.

[Shaun Puri]

Now again, I don't care about the politics of this and I don't live in New York, but I'm fascinated by this guy. I literally had never heard of this guy. And then I watched this video. I killed this tweet.

[Sam Parr]

He killed it.

[Shaun Puri]

So this tweet right here has 3.7 million views. That's just the Twitter part of this. Forget Instagram, TikTok anywhere else that I'm sure he's posting this type of content. But first of all, the branding. So like that was the first thing that stood out to me, like literally the branding of this guy, like the font, et cetera. So what is this video? It starts like he's a TikTok content creator and he go, it says New York is suffering from a crisis and it's called halalflation. And then he talks about how halal from like the like food trucks, you know, chicken and rice. Halal from like a halal food truck now cost $10, but it used to cost eight. And he's basically goes, and he's interviewing them, he's like, you know, how much do you sell for $10? Whatever, we'll play the video is suffering.

[Unknown]

From a crisis and it's called halalflation. Today we're gonna get to the bottom of this. How much does a plate of halal cost right now from this truck?

[Sam Parr]

Ten dollars.

[Shaun Puri]

Ten dollar chicken over rice, lamb over rice. Ten dollars.

[Unknown]

Ten dollars?

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

When you're a street vendor, you have to pay for the food, the plates. How much do you have to pay for your apartment?

[Shaun Puri]

Before it was 22k, 17,000.

[Unknown]

How much does the license cost if you get it from the city? Think 400. Who are you paying?

[Shaun Puri]

The permit owner.

[Unknown]

You're not paying the city?

[Shaun Puri]

No, no, no.

[Unknown]

You pay the permit owner $22,000 just so you can sell this food? Yes. And who is this random guy? Have you ever applied for a permit?

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, I'm applying and no come anything. It's long wait, I'm number 3800 something.

[Unknown]

After two years, you're number 3800.

[Shaun Puri]

Yes.

[Unknown]

These are the four bills that are sitting in the city council right now, which would give these vendors their own permits and make your Halal more affordable. But Eric Adams hasn't said a single word about them. If you own the permit, then how much would you charge for the plate?

[Shaun Puri]

$7, $8.

[Unknown]

Would you rather pay $10 for a plate of halal or $8?

[Shaun Puri]

$8. $8. I think $8 is the way to go.

[Unknown]

If I was the mayor, I'd be working with city council from day one to make halal eight bucks again.

[Arielle Pardes]

Oh, how was the day?

[Unknown]

Tastes like 10 bucks, but it should be eight.

[Shaun Puri]

So I was blown away because I have never really seen a politician doing this type of like, I want to call it, like kind of natural influencer content. I don't know. What do you, what do you even call this? But this is not what politicians typically did.

[Sam Parr]

He's making like a Vice documentary, but in two minutes. It's very good. He.

[Shaun Puri]

Well, he's doing UGC content. Okay. That. I think that's the way I would put it. So the same thing happened in, in business, especially E commerce. So, Sam, I don't know if you remember, like, in the earlier days of E comm, right? Like let's say 2012, 2014, you know, you mostly did just static images. Okay. There was not really a lot of video on, let's say Facebook or Google at the time. So you would do static images for your ads, and. But those images you would pay a professional designer to make, and they would make it look slick, and then that's what people would click. And then when video came out, people tried to do the same thing. They would basically film professional looking videos. You'd hire a videographer, you'd have somebody holding the camera, and then you would. You'd have a good background, good lighting, and you would say your thing. But it turns out that commercials didn't really work as well on the Internet as me picking up my phone and just making something that looks very raw. Like I'm doing my, you know, it'd be a girl doing her makeup while talking about a different product. Right. And it just feels like it's a get ready with me video or it's, you know, a mom who's in a rush who's just being like, y' all. I got to tell you, this is a lifesaver. Like my husband. My husband can't believe how much of a. How much, how. How much happy I am since I got this thing. And Then they ruffle in their bag and grab something out and it's ads that don't look like ads. And they call this UGC user generated content. And that's the new style that works best in ads. For the last, I would say five years, that's dominated most of E commerce advertising. This is the first time I've seen a politician do this. So, like, if you compare, I don't know, like Kamala and how perfectly manicured everything was like her image, her, you know, pantsuit, her like professional photography, her like fake phone call with somebody. But then you see that the phone wasn't even on and she's just chuckling to nobody. Like it was all super, super fake and polished. And this guy's doing like man on the street interviews. Holding the microphone. You can literally hear like, you know, kind of rubbing against his jacket sometimes accidentally. Like it's like, it's wabi sabi, dude. It's the perfection in the imperfection to go full circle there. This kind of blew me away. I don't know if I'm just like overly nerding out about this, but from, from the topic, like, halal chicken and rice is 10 bucks. It should only be 8 to the style of the video. I immediately was like, I get why this guy won.

[Sam Parr]

And on Saturday, the election was taking place yesterday. He was, he spent the whole day walking around New York and like doing like these very raw looking videos, talking to people. And I think that this is just proof, which we already have had this proof that charisma matters more than ideas in reality. And this is not like a takeaway that, like, this is a very obvious takeaway. But this is just another example because his charisma is off the charts and he has just been like killing it when his ideas, in my opinion, are just absolutely insane. But because of the style of marketing, it's, it's done wonderful. Young people react to this stuff. And by the way, this is what we need. Like mayor or Governor Cuomo, the guy who was running for him, he's an old guy, he's in his 60s, maybe 70s, and he would never in a million years grab his cell phone and just start talking to it, but that's what you need. I think my friend or our friend Austin Reif tweeted something out and he said the next politicians and the next presidents are going to be podcasters and substackers. And that sounds like a ridiculous statement. People who write newsletters and people who have podcasts. That sounds ridiculous. It's not ridiculous. And I totally buy into it.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, definitely. There's going to be a podcaster president. Why? Because they're going to have a built a following before they run. So they're going to build the audience before they go run. Two, they're going to be trained with 10,000 hours of storytelling, communication of, you know, how to make a point. So, you know, I think that's going to be one archetype. The other one is going to be short form video creators. I think Roberto, our friend, said this thing, he goes, whether this guy's agenda is good or bad for New York is irrelevant. He told the best story. This is why Steve Jobs said that the storyteller is the most powerful person in the world. A lie told as a good story can never nep. Can never beat the truth trapped in a bad story. Or I think it can always be the truth trapped in a bad story. And then I had. Because I tweeted this thing. So when I saw this, I saw the second video. I don't know if you've seen this one, but can you hear this.

[Sam Parr]

Dude? You know what's funny is I don't have to hear what he's saying. And I could sense the charisma.

[Shaun Puri]

Well, so, okay, so he's speaking Hindi in this video. And I think he does actually speak Hindi. But I. It made me realize, oh, dude, 11 labs is going to make like a billion dollars next election cycle because every politician is going to translate everything they're saying into all languages using AI instantaneously. Like, you know, why would you not? You're just going to pick up free views. Like, we did this. We started doing this with our MFM episodes. Ben was like, hey, I think I can get more views if we dub our episodes into another language. So now if you're on YouTube and you click the settings wheel and you click, like, audio track, you could select Spanish or Hindi on some of the episodes. And it's gonna be all the episodes soon. Because we went to 11 labs and we're like, hey, dude, will you guys help us, like, translate this? And immediately. We now get tens of thousands of views a month that we weren't getting before in Spanish and in Hindi. There's probably people in Mexico right now that think we just speak Spanish, that we're their favorite Spanish podcast, and if they meet us, they'll be sorely disappointed.

[Sam Parr]

That's a really good insight. I didn't. I have not seen this video of him. Is he. Is this video dubbed? Is this a fake video or.

[Shaun Puri]

I think it's real. He kind of looks like he might speak in the. Or maybe it's dubbed. I can't tell exactly, but I guess that's the point. I wouldn't know. AI tools have gotten so good that I would never know. And I, I actually tweeted this out. I said I could 1000% create an AI politician that could win over, you know, a city election. Now, of course you can't actually run if you're not a human being, but whatever. And I said, here's how I would do it. You know, I would make a likable sort of guy next door character like this guy. I would create 100x more video content than my opponent because Andrew Cuomo is not going to be able to keep up with my AI engine. I don't know if you've seen people who do this. They basically they create an AI workflow that's an agent that scrapes like it comes up. It's. There's one agent that's just brainstorming topics. It's like looking at Reddit, it's looking at TikTok trends etc and it's brainstorming topics. Then they have a scripter agent that writes the, writes a one minute TikTok script. Then they have a video generation agent that creates a video that does that has your, your AI avatar speaking it like hey Gen or, or 11 Labs.

[Sam Parr]

Who's doing this?

[Shaun Puri]

There's people that are doing this. They run what they call faceless channels. They run channels on Instagram and TikTok that get millions of views like with.

[Sam Parr]

B roll, a narration.

[Shaun Puri]

But it doesn't have to be B roll anymore because now they use an AI avatar. So they just put a person there and they're like, cool. I don't want to be an influencer. I don't want to wake up and get ready and have a nice house, all this. But I'll just tell the. I'll just make an AI character that does this and you can just create an AI character that does exactly this. And then. But the cool thing is they automated the entire workflow from coming up with the idea, scripting it, recording it, and then actually like scheduling it, posting it, analyzing the data and feeding that back into the engine.

[Sam Parr]

Who, what's an example?

[Shaun Puri]

It's almost like, dude, if you guys applied your talents to something useful, this, you'd be incredible. I but, but it's amazing that you could even do this.

[Sam Parr]

I'm reading a book called A Promised Land. It's Obama's biography or autobiography. He Wrote it, but it's old. It's 10 years old. But I was at the airport and it looked cool. I'm at the point in the book where he was like, I was getting my ass beat in the election because I was too long winded and my campaign manager criticized one of my debates. And he's like, dude, you're answering the question. And he's like, yeah, they asked me a question. I'm giving them an answer. And, like, it's kind of nuanced and it's long and, like, thorough answer. Yeah, I'm giving, like, a good answer. And he goes, yeah, that's bullshit. That's not how you win a debate, and that's not how you win votes. You don't give an answer. You're not answering the question. The question is irrelevant. All people want to know is, can they trust you with their vote? And, like, are you a brand that they want to get behind? Stop answering the question and tell a story that lets them know that they can get behind you. And he was like, He. He goes, that rubs me the wrong way, but that's the game, and I will play that game. And there's, like, a distinct difference in like, a. You know, we know him now. Obama is regarded as a fairly charismatic, good storyteller. He was like. That was the change.

[Shaun Puri]

Yeah, exactly. Do you know Lulu?

[Sam Parr]

No.

[Shaun Puri]

She's. She's really cool. A very interesting person to follow on Twitter and whatnot. So Lulu, I think she was the head of comms at, like, Palantir or something like that, or Andrew, I think it was. But she does a good job. What she posts regularly is basically comms, advice, communication advice, pr, how executives should communicate. And I think Andrew was always an interesting one because, like, instead of trying to conform as this, like, boring government contractor, you know, they let their freak flag fly. So she. She tweeted this out. She goes, it sounds so basic, but he is too likable to lose. Friendly demeanor, smiles with his eyes, seems earnest. Being liked outweighs policies, experience, and nonsensical plans. Quote, I just have a good feeling about that. Person can override almost anything. And then Harley, the CEO of Shopify, said vibes. It's like, oh, man, we're sort of vibe voting now. And it's like, actually, we're kind of always.

[Sam Parr]

We've always been doing that, man. We've always been doing that. You know, JFK was one of the most. JFK had, like, a 70% approval rating when he was murdered. And he was well loved. He was Our Princess Diana or whatever for that generation. Like, he. He was well loved and he was well loved because he was incredibly likable. That's like, his policies were fine, but it was because he looked great. He had a beautiful wife who was poised. He had a lovely family with really white teeth. Like, that is why he won, because he was very likable and good and good looking.

[Shaun Puri]

All right, this episode is brought to you by Mercury. They are the finance platform of Choice for over 200,000 companies. Shouldn't be surprised because I use it myself for not one, not two, but I have eight different Mercury accounts. I have seven for different companies that I am a part of. And then I have my own personal account because now they have personal banking, which is a really cool feature. I highly, highly recommend it. Like I said, I use it myself. And the reason why is because the way that Mercury works is beautiful. It's very intuitive. And you could tell that it's actually made by a startup founder. It's an entrepreneur. You could tell it's made by somebody who used other banking products in the past and didn't like all the different rough edges and annoyances and decided to, you know, actually fix it himself. And really, any type of entrepreneur you are, let's say you're an agency. Well, one of the things every agency has to do is be able to send invoices, easily create them, send them to customers, and stay current on your balances, all your customers. Well, you can do that inside Mercury. And so I think that Mercury is great. Highly recommend you check it out. And thank you for sponsoring the show. For more information, check out mercury.com Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Check show notes for details. So I'm likable might not even be the word because you might look at Trump and be like, wow. Like, is he. Would you say he's likable? Like, well, he's funny. He's funny, he's charismatic. So did I ever tell you about the time where. So I had this friend who's like a billionaire successful tech guy, and he sends me a Google Doc one day, called the president, and I'm like, okay, what's this? And I open it up and I have no idea what to expect. I think he might be running for president. I don't know what this is. And it was basically a pitch for a television show and he laid out a case and he basically said, if you look at the last, I forgot what it was, but I'm just gonna make up some numbers. If you look at the last 10 elections. You would look for a pattern. You'd say, is it always Democrats? Is it always Republicans? Is it always, does it always switch between Democrat and Republican? Is it based on the economy? Is it based on the person's height? Like, if you tried to look for correlation, where would you find it? And he goes, the highest correlation you could find is that the more charismatic candidate wins. And he goes, ever since the advent of radio and television, when our primary way of getting messages out scaled up like crazy, the more charismatic candidate wins. Whether this was Clinton or Reagan. Wasn't Reagan like an actor or something like this?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, he was good looking, he dressed great.

[Shaun Puri]

He's going through history. And basically 2020 was kind of the only exception where Biden won. And I would say Biden was the less charismatic candidate than Trump. Seems to be like the outlier. But the guy's case was basically he's like, I think in his case he didn't, he didn't want Trump to win. And he's like, the problem is Trump is incredibly charismatic. He's able to capture people's attention. He says things that are very memorable. He says things that excite certain people and inflame certain people, but it's all attention that he gets. Free earned media. So he had this idea to create a television show and he's like, this sounds a little bit silly, but he's like, I think for the Democratic Party, which is the party he was a part of, he's like, I think we need to start nominating more charismatic candidates. And if you look at the last few, they have not been the most charismatic. He's like, we're sort of, it's a captured party and we lack putting forward charismatic candidates. Since Obama, Obama was one of the most charismatic candidates. And he said, here's what I think we should do. Just like, you know, American Idol or the Voice or whatever, there's the Apprentice even. There's been proven shows where you can have like, let's say an 8 to 12 week period where you start with 10 people and then they get eliminated and in the end you have a winner. He's like, what if we did this for presidential candidates? So you would take 12 candidates, not random people off the street, but people that genuinely are thinking that they want to run. And so you'd get Pete Buttigieg and others in this batch. And he's like, week by week, you know, let's say they go, they go to a small town in Pittsburgh and they're going to actually meet with the car manufacturers there, whatever. Like, you know, some like presidential type of shit that they do and they have to present a plan and then it's actually like. And the judges for that week will be the car manufacturer people and then they'll sort of pick which candidate they felt best understood them and was able to address their needs. And week by week, you sort of eliminate candidates. He's like, by the end of this 12 week thing will have captured so much attention and hopefully found a candidate that's like won the hearts of people. People will know their backstory, they'll know what they're all about. They'll have seen them in a more human light and we will have filtered out the less charismatic candidates for the more charismatic candidates. He's like, I'm not saying charisma is the end all be all. Like, ideally at the beginning you try to screen people that you think are worthy, you know, candidates to lead, but amongst that worthy pool, give a boost to the most charismatic candidate. I thought this was fascinating and I really wanted him to do it. And he was friends with Mark Burnett, the guy who created Survivor and maybe Bachelor or whatever, like a bunch of other major, major reality shows. And he's like, I'm going to talk to Mark and I think we're going to do this. And I hit him up recently and I was like, whatever happened to that idea? And he's like, I just decided I didn't want, I didn't want an avalanche of problems in my life for creating this. And I decided it wasn't worth, I have a great life. And it really wasn't worth the, you know, what it was going to do. And, but, and Biden won in 2020 and so he felt like maybe, maybe I was wrong, maybe there's not as much of a need for this, but isn't that interesting, dude?

[Sam Parr]

Yeah, that's pretty fascinating. I, I wish, I wish you would have done that.

[Shaun Puri]

I feel like that would work too. Like, it sounds like it's an idea that I think is easy to make fun of. It's also an idea that I think would be effective at the stated mission.

[Sam Parr]

It's easy to make fun of because we don't want it to be true, but it is true. Like, you know who's a really good example? This is Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[Shaun Puri]

Yep.

[Sam Parr]

He was just, he's a, he was such a charismatic, interesting person. He was good to look at. Like he wanted to look like he looked like even the people who aren't, even the people who become our Leaders who aren't really good looking, they're still sort of interesting to look at. Like Donald Trump is intriguing to look at. He looks like remarkable in a weird way. You know, I'm saying Arnold Schwarzenegger is a perfect example of this. Can I show you one last thing which I think is funny. So I found this and I don't, I think I've talked to this guy Brian and he was cool. So I don't want to on him but I'm more so on people who.

[Shaun Puri]

This line of thinking, maybe this line.

[Sam Parr]

Of thinking and let's, let's explain what.

[Shaun Puri]

It is he says. I asked quote, what company is worth less than 10 billion today that you could be worth 500 billion plus in a few decades? I have received 710 answers. Here's the top 20 picks that have 50x potential. And this tweet has 18,000 likes. You know, probably I don't know how.

[Sam Parr]

Many views but like what year was this?

[Shaun Puri]

Over a million. This is in 2021, July of 2021, when times were good, when everybody's making a ton of money in the stock market.

[Sam Parr]

And he lists 20 companies and, and these are ones that this guy who, I think he has a whole YouTube channel towards picking stocks. And I don't know if these were his picks necessarily or if they were his, his audience's picks, but.

[Shaun Puri]

And this guy has 600,000 followers. His bio says I teach investors how to analyze businesses, stock fundamentals and valuation teacher DM Buffett for premium courses. Free ebook in my description. Okay, that's, that's this guy.

[Sam Parr]

So this was in 2021. And I just was curious like how it was he. Right, like what's his deal? I'm almost positive that not only did none, none of them 50x, I am pretty sure that most of them are down from, from down even from this tweet.

[Shaun Puri]

But of the, of the 20 that he hand selected, somebody, somebody says this has to go down in history as the best case of stupidity of the crowds. Here's where we're at. Three years later. So three years later, only one company is up and it's up 6%. The average company is down 70% on this list with several of them minus 95%, minus 95%, minus 98%, minus 90% minus 97, minus 86, minus 99. And of course Ozan, which was an e commerce platform in Russia, which is.

[Sam Parr]

Delisted and I think open door is now. And so this tweet that you're looking at that Was even six months ago. I'm almost positive that Open Door is delisted and Virgin is down even more. I think Lemonade is delisted or out of business context. Logic, I think, is out of business, which is wish.

[Shaun Puri]

All right, we should post an update here. And now we're at five years later. Here's how the stupidity of the crowd has done.

[Sam Parr]

And my point in bringing this up isn't the actual results. The results are not good. That's the summary. The results are actually really bad. But it's just crazy how hard it is to pick winners. It's very challenging. This guy has 600,000 followers. I assume that he does this all the time for his job, and you still can't nail it. It's just so challenging.

[Shaun Puri]

Is it, though? Okay, I'm gonna tell you what I did back in 20. I graduated in 2010, and I started my stock portfolio, I think, right around, like, senior year of college. And I. I bought, I believe, six stocks. And my dad was telling me, just buy the index. But I'm like, dad, I got this right. I had the dunning Kruger effect. I thought I knew a lot more than I knew. And I think I bought five or six stocks.

[Sam Parr]

How much money?

[Shaun Puri]

I mean, I didn't have any, but I had $25,000. I had probably $60,000 total.

[Sam Parr]

That's a lot of money.

[Shaun Puri]

Well, I guess what I'm saying is, even though the results were great on a very small base, that doesn't do a whole lot for you. I bought Amazon, Google, Facebook, and Tesla. What years these were. It was basically 2010, 2011 when I bought those stocks. So I did the thing you're not supposed to do. I picked. I didn't pick with any sort of brilliance. I was like, these are, like, obviously just seemed like the good companies of the world to me at the time. And I did make a mistake because I sold Tesla earlier. I sold it probably 2014 or something like that. So that. And that would have been a much bigger return. So, yeah, I think I still am in the case study of, like, it's really freaking hard to do. Even if you buy right, you'll sell wrong and shit like that. Like, I bought bitcoin early and sold some early, and then bought it back again and sold it again. Bought it back again. You know, I'm not saying I'm smart. I do dumb things. But I guess what I'm saying is sometimes it's actually kind of obvious. I think one of the reasons that what this guy did was so hard was he was looking for a 50X and he's like, what company? Small today, that's going to be massive tomorrow. Which of course, if you knew, that'd be fantastic. But there is a simple way of looking at things. Like right now, for example, I put my money into my own little AI index and I didn't spend much time on this and I'm going to go back and do a little more research. But basically it's very obvious, I think at this moment in time in the world that AI is going to be a very big deal. That the biggest winners over the next five to 10 years are going to be ones that are benefiting from AI in some way, whether they're Nvidia, they're selling chips, whether they're companies like Google or Facebook that are able to use AI in order to make all their services better and slash tens of thousands of employees that they don't need shit like that. Right? Like, I think it's pretty obvious that AI is a big deal. And I think if you put in the time to just think about, like, instead of buying the generic S and P500, like, what's the equivalent of the AI50 or the AI20? And it's like 20 companies that I believe are well positioned, it's hard for them to lose given the AI tailwind. And again, it's a little bit naive because you might say, well, Nvidia Today they have 90% gross margins and that they're going to get competed away and blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying it's like easy. I'm just saying I think an index of AI of AI focused companies, that doesn't mean companies that are like, you know, all chip makers or whatever. But I'm saying companies that are going to disproportionately benefit from AI and are going to adopt AI and get the benefits of it. I just feel like that's an obvious thing today. That's the version of me from 2010 being like, I don't know, me and all my friends use the Internet like crazy. I think I should just like own the big Internet companies. That seems like a good idea.

[Sam Parr]

The issue is not, can you pick winners? Because I think that, like, when we saw Facebook was valued at, when it was hit a low, I think a year and a half ago, everyone who has ever bought any Facebook ads was like, yeah, this is undervalued. This is a great company. The issue is the amount of times that you have lost using that same logic. Like, and so if you were to take a lump sup of money and you would buy and sell like occasionally or rather often versus just letting it sit and ignoring like if you average.

[Shaun Puri]

I'm actually going to go back and just back test this for me, me specifically, and I'll publish my result. I'll bring up. I'll bring it to the next episode because I am curious and I would say I think there's a more likely chance that I buying and selling has. Buying and selling and picking has underperformed. I would, I would assume that to be true. I think there's a chance it's not been for me. But I really want to go get the exact answer because it all include. I think I should include crypto because I think that was kind of like buying and selling, picking. And I want to see the returns of if I had just invested the same amount of money in the same times in just the index versus my picking. I just want to see for myself what I've done and give it honest. Be able to look reality in the face of like, you know, how's this working for me?

[Sam Parr]

So let me tell you this, Let me tell you this crazy stat that Ankur told me. So Jerry Buss, the guy who owned the Lakers, you know, they recently just sold the Lakers for $10 billion. So he bought the Lakers for $67 million in 1979 and he sold it for 150 times his money at $10 billion in 2025. And yet had he taken that $60 million and instead just invested it in the S&P 500, he would have been able to have had $13 billion. So he would have had more money.

[Shaun Puri]

Now that's stupid. That's stupid.

[Sam Parr]

It's not stupid. But listen, the top comment was think of all. It sounded correct. I mean, it's just.

[Shaun Puri]

It's just math is acting like he didn't take money every year in gains from the business.

[Sam Parr]

He could have lost money every year.

[Shaun Puri]

Cash flow every year.

[Sam Parr]

Do they do. Most winning teams do not make a profit.

[Shaun Puri]

Most winning teams, they could show paper losses. I know team owners, I talked to them about this. I was like, is this true? Do you guys actually lose money on this thing? And they're like, no, Most years we're making money. Occasionally if we're way over the luxury tax we get, we get a huge penalty. Then yes, we can lose money in that one year. But no, we're not idiots. We're not burning hundreds. Like people say, like, oh, they lost $200 million. I'm not losing $200 million every year.

[Sam Parr]

Some of the top comment was like, yeah, but are you adding into the P and L all the women that he was able to get because of he. Because of him owning the Lakers, forgetting.

[Shaun Puri]

The joy of owning the Lakers, which is already, congratulations, you owned the S&P 500 versus you own the Lakers, forgetting that the Lakers are a business that has been generating cash. And so all he's taking into account is just the exit price and none of the 30 years of cash flow.

[Sam Parr]

Well, I don't really look at the facts whenever I'm making a statement, but.

[Shaun Puri]

I think it did make for a good headline. And it is kind of stunning. What? I don't know, 11% compounding over 40 years actually does pretty crazy.

[Sam Parr]

I like doing this. All right, that's it. That's a pod.

[Arielle Pardes]

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it. Like, no days off on the road. Let's travel. Never look, looking back.

[Sam Parr]

All right, so when my employees join Hampton, we have them do a whole bunch of onboarding stuff. But the most important thing that they do is they go through this thing I made called Copy that. Copy that is a thing that I made that teaches people how to write better. And the reason this is important is because at work or even just in life, we communicate mostly via text. Right now, whether we're emailing, slacking, blogging, texting, whatever, most of the ways that we're communicating is by the written word. And so I made this thing called Copy that that's guaranteed to make you write better. You can check it out. Copy that dot com. I post every single person who leaves a review, whether it's good or bad. I post it on the website. And you're going to see a trend, which is that this is a very, very, very simple exercise. Something that's so simple that they laugh at. They think, how is this going to actually impact us and make us write better? But I promise you it does. You got to try [e-mail] I guarantee it's going to change the way you write. Again, Copy that dot com.