Hormozi Teaches Me Everything He Knows in 90 Minutes

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Hormozi Teaches Me Everything He Knows in 90 Minutes"

My First Million | Host: Hubspot Media
Release Date: August 6, 2025

In this dynamic episode of My First Million, hosts Sam Parr and Shaan Puri engage in an in-depth conversation with Alex Hormozi, a renowned entrepreneur famously dubbed the "Hundred Million Dollar Man." Drawing insights from his latest book, Money Models, Hormozi shares his proven strategies for scaling businesses by rethinking traditional money-making models. The episode is a treasure trove of actionable advice, real-world examples, and candid reflections on entrepreneurial successes and setbacks.

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1. Introduction to Money Models

The conversation kicks off with Sam Parr flying to Las Vegas to sit down with Alex Hormozi to uncover the secrets behind his financial success.

• Alex Hormozi [00:02]: "You probably recognize this guy, Alex Hormozi. He's known as the Hundred Million dollar Man, and he's probably the most popular business teacher on YouTube. So last week I flew to Vegas and I asked Alice to teach me the things in his new book, Money Models."

Key Insight:
Hormozi introduces the concept of "money models," emphasizing that understanding and optimizing these models can significantly enhance a business's revenue streams more effectively than any other strategy he has employed.

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2. Understanding Money Models

Hormozi delves into the foundational principles of money models, explaining how deliberate sequencing of offers can achieve specific financial objectives.

• Alex Hormozi [01:11]: "You will love this book if you liked offers. And so a money model is a deliberate sequence of offers. Many businesses have more than one offer. And so it's how do we sequence those in the right way that accomplishes a financial objective."

Key Concepts:

• Client-Financed Acquisition: Hormozi discusses how acquiring clients in a manner where one client's payment finances the next acquisition is crucial. This approach ensures sustainable growth without relying heavily on external investments.

• Financial Metrics Explained:

  • Gross Profit: Revenue minus the cost of goods sold (COGS), excluding overheads.
  • Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC): The cost associated with acquiring a new customer.
  • Example [02:05]:
    • Alex Hormozi: "Gross profits... it's greater than two times CAC plus COGS."

Notable Quote:

• Alex Hormozi [02:05]: "And what you're saying is my bar, my golden rate I'm trying to hit is I want to take the cost to deliver the service and get the customer double it."

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3. Case Study: Transforming the Gym Business

Hormozi shares a detailed case study of how he revolutionized a struggling gym business by implementing his money model strategies.

Strategies Implemented:

• Challenge Offers: Introduced high-value challenges (e.g., $500 weight loss challenges) to attract clients upfront.
• Upsells:
  • Supplements: Sold additional products like supplements soon after onboarding clients.
  • Memberships: Transitioned participants from challenges to one-year memberships.
  • Prepayments: Offered discounts for clients who prepaid for annual memberships, ensuring immediate cash flow.

Economic Impact:

• Cost Efficiency: Reduced CAC by negotiating lower costs with service providers (e.g., gyms) and maximizing revenue through multiple upsells.
• Scalability: Enabled rapid expansion by reinvesting profits from initial offers into acquiring more clients.

Notable Quote:

• Unknown Business Expert [04:30]: "I do like pseudo medical stuff. So laser. You know, laser... It's amazing."

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4. Applying Money Models to Other Businesses

The discussion transitions to applying money models beyond the gym industry, using an SEO agency as an example.

Money Model Enhancement:

• Attraction Offers: Implemented giveaways or raffles to generate high-quality leads.
• Upsells and Downsells: Structured multiple offers to maximize customer lifetime value (LTV).

Detailed Example:

• Attration Offer: Raffles for high-value services (e.g., free top-tier SEO audits).
• Downsells: Offered lower-priced services for customers hesitant to commit to premium packages.
• Upsells: Introduced ancillary services like content creation or advanced analytics for existing clients.

Notable Quote:

• Alex Hormozi [14:39]: "Yes, and so because of that, I was able to not only outspend my competition, but because it cost me like if you're actually doing LTV to CAC on this cost me $50 to make a thousand."

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5. Strategic Insights and Lessons Learned

Hormozi reflects on his entrepreneurial journey, sharing valuable lessons about focus, first principles thinking, and the pitfalls of a portfolio approach.

Key Lessons:

• Focus Over Diversification:

  • Alex Hormozi [45:32]: "I started with a bit of a portfolio approach... I could have been better served doing less."

• First Principles Thinking:

  • Encourages entrepreneurs to dismantle existing business norms and rebuild strategies from the ground up based on fundamental truths rather than conventional wisdom.

• Overcoming Traditional Barriers:

  • Challenges the status quo in industries like security services by rethinking payment and acquisition strategies.

Notable Quote:

• Unknown Business Expert [53:29]: "But I didn't know, I mean, I was 27, you know."

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6. Personal and Business Growth

The conversation shifts to personal development, the integration of AI in business operations, and the balance between personal interests and professional branding.

AI Integration:

• Customer Support Automation:

  • Achieved over 90% resolution of support tickets using AI, enhancing efficiency and customer satisfaction.

• Future Aspirations:

  • Aspires to develop real-time AI for phone calls, aiming to reduce latency and improve interactive customer service.

Content Creation Challenges:

• Discusses the difficulty of aligning content metrics (like views and subscribers) with business objectives.
• Emphasizes the importance of an "inner scorecard" over external metrics to guide content strategy.

Notable Quote:

• Alex Hormozi [60:37]: "Most people in America are overweight or obese... we need to find a way to make this work uniquely."

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7. Content Strategy and Brand Building

Hormozi and his guest explore the intricacies of creating compelling content that aligns with business goals while maintaining personal authenticity.

Strategies Discussed:

• Balancing Content Types:

  • Allocating specific percentages of content to business-focused topics versus personal or lifestyle content to maintain brand integrity without alienating core audiences.

• Subscriber vs. View Metrics:

  • Transitioned focus from maximizing views to prioritizing subscriber growth as a more reliable indicator of loyal, engaged audience members.

• Authenticity Over Algorithms:

  • Advocates for creating content that genuinely reflects personal interests and expertise, even if it doesn't always align with trending topics or high-traffic themes.

Notable Quote:

• Unknown Business Expert [79:16]: "It's 100%. It's so... It's so a 1,000% a problem."

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8. Reflections on Missed Opportunities and Future Directions

Hormozi candidly discusses missed business opportunities, emphasizing the importance of perseverance and learning from setbacks.

Key Points:

• Missed Deals: Reflects on significant deals he declined, which later became highly successful, underscoring the unpredictable nature of business ventures.

• Operationalization of Lessons:

  • Developed systems to ensure better follow-up and deal closure, thereby reducing the likelihood of missing out on future opportunities.

Notable Quote:

• Alex Hormozi [51:10]: "But the second thing he said was he's like, I think you're taking the wrong lesson from this."

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9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with mutual appreciation between Hormozi and his guest, highlighting the continuous journey of learning and adaptation in business.

• Alex Hormozi [80:44]: "Thanks for having. Thanks, dudes. I feel like I can rule the world."

Final Takeaway:
Successful entrepreneurship hinges on understanding and implementing effective money models, maintaining focus, leveraging technology like AI, and creating authentic content that resonates with a dedicated audience. Hormozi's experiences offer a roadmap for entrepreneurs aiming to scale sustainably and profitably.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Alex Hormozi [00:02]: "You probably recognize this guy, Alex Hormozi... how would we improve our business? By thinking in money models."

• Alex Hormozi [02:05]: "And what you're saying is my bar, my golden rate I'm trying to hit is I want to take the cost to deliver the service and get the customer double it."

• Alex Hormozi [04:30]: "So you win your money back. So if you lose X amount of weight and next time, time we get your money back."

• Unknown Business Expert [14:39]: "Yes, and so because of that, I was able to not only outspend my competition..."

• Alex Hormozi [45:32]: "I started with a bit of a portfolio approach... I could have been better served doing less."

• Alex Hormozi [60:37]: "Most people in America are overweight or obese... we need to find a way to make this work uniquely."

• Unknown Business Expert [79:16]: "It's 100%. It's so... It's so a 1,000% a problem."

• Alex Hormozi [80:44]: "Thanks for having. Thanks, dudes. I feel like I can rule the world."

---

This episode provides invaluable insights into optimizing business models for profitability and scalability. Alex Hormozi's pragmatic approach, combined with real-world examples and a focus on sustainable growth strategies, offers listeners actionable takeaways to implement in their own entrepreneurial endeavors.

Transcript

[Alex Hormozi]

You probably recognize this guy, Alex Hormozi. He's known as the Hundred Million dollar Man, and he's probably the most popular business teacher on YouTube. So last week I flew to Vegas and I asked Alice to teach me the things in his new book. Money Models.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Ah.

[Alex Hormozi]

How to make money. Thank you.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

He says that this one concept has made him more money than anything else in his career. How would we improve our business? By thinking in money models.

[Unknown Business Expert]

So let me walk you through the actual economics of this. If 10% of people buy something that's 10 times expensive, you double your revenue. So the classic upsells. You can't have X without. Right. You can't have burger without fries or whatever. Right. It's like, what? You can't have X without Y. I.

[Alex Hormozi]

Recorded the whole session and I want to share that with you here today. All right. If I reset your bank account and your followers change your name and face, so I reset you to zero, how long do you think it would take you to get a million bucks in your bank account?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Well, having lost everything twice, I'll tell you what I did.

[Alex Hormozi]

What do your haters get? Right?

[Unknown Business Expert]

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it. Like, no, Dave, he's off on a road. Let's try new book.

[Alex Hormozi]

If I read this book and it's going to start a little campfire in my head, what's going to happen from money Models?

[Unknown Business Expert]

You will love this book if you liked offers. And so a money model is a deliberate sequence of offers. Many businesses have more than one offer. And so it's how do we sequence those in the right way that accomplishes a financial objective. And so the financial objective for this book and what I try to go for, for every business I have is something that I've always called client financed acquisition. And so the reason that we've been able.

[Alex Hormozi]

One user pays for the next user.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yes. And a slight tweak on that, which is. So it's 2x cac plus cogs. Okay, so this is our. This is the big thing that we want. So it's basically gross profit in 30 days. So I guess I could move this over here, but it doesn't matter. Gross profit in 30 days is. Is greater than two times CAC plus COGS.

[Alex Hormozi]

Let's just explain the terms people don't know. Yeah, Gross profits. You're not talking about overheads in. In this, right? So gross profit, CAC cost per customer, acquisition cogs, what it costs you to deliver the product or service that you deliver.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yep.

[Alex Hormozi]

And what you're saying is my bar, my golden rate, my golden number I'm trying to hit is I want to take the cost to deliver the service and get the customer double it. And in, in 30 days I need to be hitting that number. That's my goal. Whether that came on the first offer or what you're saying now is the second, third, fourth thing I sell them along the way along their customer journey.

[Unknown Business Expert]

It's exactly that.

[Alex Hormozi]

Can you do like a stupid tangible example?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, yeah. So the, the first business I ever did this in was the gym business. And so it really simple example because everyone gets it too. So when I came into the gym business, what the vast majority of businesses did is they would run low ticket like $21 21 days or they run a free month or free 14 day trial, whatever. That was the primary way of getting people in. And so let me walk you through the actual economics of this. And so if you have a business, let's say old way, right. Someone comes in, let's say you pay whatever 10 bucks a lead, that's your CPL cost per lead and then you can convert, let's say you're getting, you know, 20% of these people to, to start a trial. So that means that it costs you 50 bucks to start a trial. And then one out of three of those trials, which is the industry average convert. And typically the conversion for like a boot camp or something like that is going to be about 99amonth. Right? That's, that's what it costs. And so here's your CAC. Yeah, exactly.

[Alex Hormozi]

There's the first 30 days.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Exactly. And so you're, you're upside down here. Now not only that, it probably took you two weeks to like before, between when you like got the lead before you got the trial, and then 21 days now you're at five weeks. And so by the second month now you're like, okay, I got 99 times two. Now that doesn't even take into account that like that 99 is not all free. Like there's costs involved there. But let's just say that these guys are amazing and they're running 100%, you know, margins. And so it's like, okay, so this is going to take 60 days for this business to basically recoup the money. Now the problem is that in the gym industry especially, many customers leave within four months. And so it's a very tough way to make a buck. And so what I kind of Came in and started doing was we'd run these challenges and I'd, I'd spend the same amount of $10. I'd have the same.

[Alex Hormozi]

You were here when started your, you did the same model initially?

[Unknown Business Expert]

No, I saw people doing it. I saw people doing it. And so then it was like a three step permutation. I like, I don't even want to tell the backstory, but basically figured it out, tried it out at a gym, it worked at that gym and then I started my gym. That's basically what happened. So same, same cost per lead. I would close the same. I get 20% of these businesses. So it would cost me, let's call it 50 bucks, whatever. To, for me though, I would off of that $50, I would sell up front and I would make 500 because.

[Alex Hormozi]

Your $500 offer was a challenge.

[Unknown Business Expert]

So you win your money back. So if you lose X amount of weight and next time, time we get your money back. Now that was the beginning of the offer. That's an attraction offer. So it's one of the offer types I talk about in the book. And so it's like, okay, I got $500. But we didn't stop there because what are you going to do after you have your, your thing? Well, you're need some supplements. It's like, all right, so then we'd 48 hours later we'd sell $200 of supplements. Call it, you know, 80% gross margins, whatever. It's like, okay, so I get 160 plus, plus 500. Now I'm at 660. All right, great. Now on top of that, it's like, all right, three weeks in, it's six weeks, six week deal. I would then say, hey, I'm going to roll this towards a one year membership. And so boom, we'd roll that over, which is another mechanism that we use. And so then I get the one year, one year member. Great. Now at week six or between week three and week six, we'd make a second offer and say, hey, you're already a member. Can I just save you some money? And they say sure. And we say, hey, if you want. What we can do is if you just prepay for the whole year, we'll knock two months off. And so then all of a sudden I get about 20% of people to prepay for the whole year, which is a $2,000, $2,000 cash up front. Which if it's 20% and we add all these together, I'm getting about a thousand bucks upfront. In the first same period of time that these guys are getting 99 or 199. And so my ability to outspend them in an auction based based on attention on like Facebook or Google search or whatever, it was like unparalleled. And so because of that, I was able to not only outspend my competition, but because it cost me like if you're actually doing LTV to CAC on this cost me $50 to make a thousand. I'm getting 20 to 1, 30 to 1 up front. And so I was actually able to finance the opening of all my locations that way. So I could spend $5,000 in ads and make a hundred grand back and literally paint the walls, put the lobby in, buy the equipment, and by the time I actually open the gym, because I do pre sales for a month or whatever, I would actually already be cash flow positive day one without actually having to invest capital. And so fundamentally I will continue to tinker. And this is where I got spoiled or whatever. Maybe my belief set change is that this was the first model I ever had. And so every business I've had since then, I was like, I know there's a way if I just keep tweaking it until eventually this thing will print. And then when that happens, you don't need the outside investors because you cash flow getting customers. And so you basically almost like every business I've had has been supply constrained because I can blow the doors off on the front end because I can acquire customers. And so like this has been the skill that's probably been the largest, you know, contributor to my material success. And like Alan went from 0 to, you know, 1.7 million a month within six months. Gym launch went from 0 to 2.2 million a month at 20 months. Prestige Labs, 0 to 0 to 1, 1 1/2 ish and 6. And so like each of them just very quickly just ramped because I could get customers at a profit. And when you look at the actual like where the mechanics of the money happen, as soon as one customer comes in, right? One guy comes in. Now if he gives you that 2x cac plus cogs, then it's like, okay, well I've paid for him and I paid for the delivery, but he comes loaded. He's holding this guy by the throat. He comes loaded with my next customer. And so. But then this guy brings me two more. And so basically you keep doubling, he comes loaded. Yeah, exactly. And so then at that point you literally only have to acquire, you have to have the cash or the wherewithal to acquire the first customer. And then everything after that is. Is financed by the. By the customers. And the greater that discrepancy, the more you don't have to even put more capital into the business at all. And so that was a very long as. As fast as I could say it. That's. That's the, that's the. That's what we hope to accomplish. The good money.

[Unknown Host]

All right, so a lot of people will talk about how you need a million dollars and three years of experience.

[Alex Hormozi]

To start a business. Nonsense.

[Unknown Host]

If you listen to at least one episode on this podcast, you know that is completely not true. My last company, the Hustle, we grew it to something like 17 or 18 million dollars in revenue. I started it with like $300. My current company, Hampton, does over 10 million in revenue. Started it with actually no money. Maybe 29 or something like that. Nothing. And so you don't actually need investors to start a company. You don't need a fancy business plan. But what you do need is systems that actually work. And so my old company, the Hustle, they put together five proven business models that you could start right now, today, with under $1,000. These that, if you do it correctly, it can make money this week. You can get it right now. You can scan the QR code or click the link in the description. Now back to the show.

[Alex Hormozi]

I want to break down a couple of things in here just because I can. First of all, this is great. You know, in. I come from Silicon Valley. In Silicon Valley, virality rules all.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And, and they, you know, the early growth hackers. In fact, there's a book called the Viral Loop. The guy, my mentor, the guy who, who kind of plucked me when I got to Silicon Valley, he's featured in that book because early on he was like scraping Hotmail and he realized, wait, I have no marketing budget, but one user can get me, the next user, through this thing called the K factor. And then you measure the K factor, it becomes like, this is how Facebook and other businesses grew. You've created a version of the K factor for non tech businesses that are not going to grow virally, but you can finance the next customer through the existing customers. I want to point out a couple of important things. So the first one was this is what. This is kind of book one. So this is, you know, your $100 million offers book.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And I would. A key difference here for any entrepreneur is that you're able to charge $500 when this guy's probably honestly struggling to even charge $99 a month. I drove by a place that here, there was like, $5 entry offer, the Las Vegas Fitness Club or whatever. Because you were not selling a gym membership, which is a cost to the customer. You were selling a transformation promise.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yep.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right. So you're selling customer transformation, the happy ending. So first of all, what. What are you actually selling? That was a key thing. The second was you were then upselling. Upsell one of your money model.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yep.

[Alex Hormozi]

And you had a good insight here in the preview your team sent me, which was basically that you want to sell when the customer pain is highest. Can you talk about that?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, I. I'd love to. Talking about this. So basically, I think so many people. Businesses, et cetera, get. They think about that, especially services, because 78% of businesses are. They think about. They have a term that they deliver for a customer, and they typically want to renew when they're about to stop getting paid.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Which is typically the absolute worst time to try and renew.

[Alex Hormozi]

Like an ex boyfriend. Hey.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, Right. It's like, oh, how you.

[Alex Hormozi]

I guess I'm on month 11 of my annual trial.

[Unknown Business Expert]

No, exactly. And so there's there's basically five. Five. Five times that you. That you want to sell. Sell a customer. So number one, I'm just gonna move this. Okay. Number one is immediately. Right. So that's like in the same conversation. The second one is after basically some sort of activation point. Next, you have your halfway. Just because, like, you're like, why halfway? Because it's halfway. And that's why I work, because we're humans of halfway. You have your last chance at the end, and then you have milestone, which is. Which can happen kind of anywhere in here. But basically they have something occur. So this is something they do. This is something that happens.

[Alex Hormozi]

So the action item for a company here is map this for yourself.

[Unknown Business Expert]

But if you're like, okay, well, which of the five do I. Do you want to sell the point of greatest deprivation, not the point of greatest value? Sometimes the point of greatest value and the point of greatest deprivation occur at the same time. Not always, though. So I'll give you my simple example, which is like, if I go to the best steakhouse in the world and I have a steak, and I'm like, this is amazing. And the waiter comes back and says, hey, would you like another steak? I'd be like, I'm. I'm good. And they're like, what, you didn't like the steak? And I'm like, no, the steak was great. They're like, why don't you get another? I was like, I'm good. They're like, well, if you, if you like the steak, you get more steak. And the thing is, is that so many businesses are trying to sell and upsell that way. They're like, my customers suck. They're so cheap. It's like, no. So at that point, I might have a, I might have deprivation around something that's sweeter and lighter and that might be the right time to offer dessert. Right. Versus more of that other thing. Now, the deprivation occurs at the same time as value creation, when the first loop of value that gets created creates the next problem. So if I help you get leads and you get leads, then you're like, holy shit, I'm overwhelmed. If I say, hey, would you like me to help you work those leads? Then it's a very natural upsell where greatest value and greatest deprivation at the same time. If you are a business that doesn't have that type of. I'll just, I'll just speak broadly. If that doesn't occur in your business or on a short enough timeline, then that you, you don't want to sell at that time. Right. And so that's basically what we, we strive for. And that's why I've always been of the belief, like when someone comes in with red hot pain, that's when you sell, not when you offer your trial.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right. And so for, let's take. You can use the gym, we can use a different business, if that. Maybe, maybe that'd be nice. If you can, what would you either, you know, or a money model. You know, you can either walk through a money model or you can walk through this for another business. Let's do another example.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Sure. Let's say you have an SEO agency, whatever. So if you actually, we can use.

[Alex Hormozi]

One of my real businesses. Okay. So we have this business somewhere.com, we basically help you find talent that is overseas. So we help businesses where you're like, I really want a developer, but I'm not trying to pay 100%.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Did you ever invest in that too? Yeah. Okay. Got it. I thought it was. Okay, got it. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

So we, we own this business somewhere dot com. So for example, I got my assistant through this. You know, I'll hire developers, graphic designers, data analysts, whatever you need. There's talent is everywhere in the world. Hard to find. They put boots on the ground in different locations. So South Africa, Philippines, and they have hundreds of recruiters in each of those areas to find who's the best 1% in each of those locations to come work for you this year. Right. Great business, great margins. Love it. Happy, happy owner. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so now what's the problem? So today the way our money model works is customer basically listens to Sean's podcast. So we'll just do this. Or they follow Nick on Twitter. So we get leads from one place. Exactly. Not exactly fully, but that's a bulk of it. And they come in, they book a call, and on that call we try to sell them a contingency based thing which says if we find someone, pay us a fraction of their salary. Now they're so low salary, typically because you're getting talent from different regions of the world that will come out to, let's say, you know, maybe 6k per customer. And what we do is that happens and then we stop and we go fishing again for the next one.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, Help us with our money model. How would you, if I took, if I read this book and I want to go help Nick improve this business.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

How would we improve our business? By thinking in money models.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. So the question would be like, do we need. So if I'm looking at this, right, we have attraction offers. So it's like, do we have a big demand issue or do we have an LTV issue which might be upsells? Do we have a conversion issue which might be down sells, all of the.

[Alex Hormozi]

Above, everything can be improved.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Or do we have a continuity thing? Right. And so there are different structures that lend themselves more to one versus the other type of, type of problem. Right. That we're trying to solve. And so like, for an attraction offer, if you're like, you know what, let's get a shitload more, you know, phone calls in the door, I would say, hey, I just got this absolute savage. And I would put like, this is the dude, all right, this guy is a fucking God. Whatever. Now who here wants him? And I would say the, the business that, like, we're going to do a raffle and everybody who, who submits to win this guy now obviously got to be ethical and lawyer, but assuming that you're not a fucking idiot, right, this is, this is the guy that you're going to get. And you have to be a business that's like this in order to qualify. Cool. So they're going to enter their information in order to get in the raffle. So they get this guy. Now you're going to say, we will pay for this guy for a year as our, as the deal, as the big giveaway not only is he amazing, we're also pay for him for a year. And so that makes a huge. You'll get a gigantic amount of demand. But what's beautiful about it is that the demand is for your most expensive or ideal product. And so then at that point the person, like every single other person who opts in is a qualified lead who say, you know, we can't give you Carlos, but we can give you so and so. And you will give you a partial scholarship, we'll give you a partial win whatever, and you knock whatever off 10%, 20% off. And then you roll that right into the continuity. So that would be an example of an attraction offer that you could attach to that existing thing. From an upsell down sell perspective. It would be like. And there's five different ones. That's just one that I pulled out listing. That's a giveaway.

[Alex Hormozi]

Giveaway.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And we'll write car.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. And so like the. Just for everyone's just listening, the, the. The weight loss version that I had was something called win your money back, which is a different. Was a different mechanism. Right. So there's. There's five different ones that I think that work exceptionally well for bringing people in. Depends on the type of business. And so for yours, there's bikes free. There's a bunch of different versions. But like think this makes the most sense. Cool. We'll use a giveaway. All right, so then upsells and downsells. So with down. So I'll start from down sells. So you can have feature downsells, you can have free trials, you can have payment plans. Now for your particular business. Payment plans doesn't probably. That doesn't really make sense because it's a continuity thing anyways. And so it's like, okay, we have free trials, which you kind of have with contingency. So it's like that parts that risk is kind of averted. But from a downside perspective, they might think, okay, well I can't afford six. Now that's a business decision more than anything. I like to think of feature downsells. So I can get you somebody who's maybe not as PhD level whatever, but we can do it for 3k a month. And that person might give you more opportunities to say, yes, that would be the downfall component. From the upsell perspective, there's. There's four different upsell structures that I like. The classic upsells. You can't have X without Y. Right. Which is like you can't have fry. You can't have a Coke without a fries. You can't burger without fries or whatever. Right. It's like, what? You can't have X without Y. And so it's like, you don't want to buy this big, you know, this big framed art without insurance. Right. So there's always a. You can't have X without Y. And so the.

[Alex Hormozi]

So for here, because they said yes, naturally you should say yes to this next thing.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Exactly.

[Alex Hormozi]

In order to make your first decision and even more sound.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And this is why the whole deprivation thing that I was saying earlier is so important where like right now.

[Unknown Host]

Supplements.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yes.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Because some people are like, well, I don't want to sell them something else. It's like, well, you just created this new problem that they weren't aware of, which you will now make them aware of, which is, oh, sometimes these guys flake out. Whatever. And so we have insurance that we can offer for. For this type of thing. So me just shooting from the hip here. I was. I'm running through the easy one here.

[Alex Hormozi]

In this situation is payroll. So great. They. A lot of companies are not set up to pay people all around the world. We can manage that for you.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And we'll do it for you for 500 bucks a month. Yeah, we'll take care of this. Because you're going to, you're going to build out a remote team here all around the world. You don't want to be doing compliance and payroll and foreign exchange.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Exactly.

[Alex Hormozi]

Reporting. Yeah, we take care of all that for you. For we have. We have an accounts team that does that.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Perfect. And so that would be the natural upsell that you do. You tack on. And so some people, I'll just make this point. A lot of business owners will think, well, why don't I just include that in the main offer? So I'll just say, in my experience, it's a lot of times as. As bad as this may sound, it's easier to get the second yes after you get the first yes. And so like, it's like, well, maybe if I included that, they'd buy at 6, $7,000 a month. It's like, yeah, but you might also just raise your price to $7,000 a month and then do it again. Right. And then still have it. And so because, I mean, the amount of gyms were like, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna take the challenge system and then just include the supplements. I was like, or you could just do it the way that I've already tried 100 times. Like, believe me, if I Could sell more up front. I would. It works better this way. And I had this whole psychology around it, which is like, you have these different wallets. In my mind, it doesn't work this way. But, like, it's like my grandmother used to say this thing. Like, I would go there and probably, like, your family, like, overfeed. She'd have. She'd have enough food for 10 people. When I go and see her on my own, and I would just. She would stuff me to the gills and one time went there with my dad, and she. She and I have different languages, so she's tough to talk to. But she said something under her breath after she walked away, after I was, like, dying and he cracked up. I was like, what did she say? And he said, well, you said you were full. And she said, well, your. Your main stomach's full, but your dessert stomach is empty. Yeah. And so it's the same idea here where it's like, well, their person wallet has been spent, but their. Their tax avoidance operation pain, what a pain in ass isn't. And that one's still full, so we can still tap that one. And so if we're. If we're drawing this, it's like, okay, so we've got payroll as our upsell. Cool. And you'll know your services better than I do. But it's like, okay, so we have one or two things that we can include in the upsells, but the mechanism of doing it is part of, like, part of the Money models book. And so the X without Y, the way that we probably present it. So each of that whole section is a lot more on the scripting of it.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay.

[Unknown Business Expert]

So it's like, hey, what a lot of people do is they do this. Do you know anything else? Do you. And so we say that everyone says yes by saying no. And by that, it's like you get 80, 90% take rates on the upsell, rather than saying, hey, do you want. It's a. It's a. It's a binary. It's a different question right now. They have to consider a purchase. And so all of them have, like, tiny little, little repositionings that work really well. But that I think would make sense. Like, you'd say that's. That's the classic upsell. There's rollover upsells. There's. Which is. One of my favorites is anchor upsells, which anchor ups. It would be like. Let's say you're like, okay, if you want, Nick will go find the person for. I'm Just making it up, right? And he'll do it for $15,000 upfront and, you know, $10,000 a month. Now at that point, they're like, shit. It's like, that's a lot. It's like. Or if you're good with the exact same work being done by someone that Nick trained, we can do it for one third the price. And it's like, oh, yeah, that's fine. So the key part is that you anchored them to the anchor is. Is part of it, but there's also, like, what you want to anchor. And so the way I learned this was actually at a Salt Lake City suit place. So I go in. A friend of mine sets up a private suit appointment with me. Now, I'm not ballin'. I have, like, $10,000 in my name. So I was like. He's like, you gotta have a boss suit if you want people to take you seriously. This is many years ago. Obviously, I've really listened to this advice. And so I go in there, and the guy's like, all right, I'll get you. He asked me, what do you want? I said, a boss suit. And so I'm 23 or 24, something like that. And so he puts this suit on me. And he was like, what do you think? I was like, oh, I look awesome. And then I looked at the tag, and it was 16 grand. And I was like, I. I think I turned white, right? And I was like, oh. And I think he saw me, like, just, like, freak out. And he's like, hey. He's like, do you care about the brand? And I was like, no, not at all. And he was like, I got you. And so he. The thing is, is that he had his lineup already picked for me, and he just pulled the second one, put it on me. He's like, what do you think? And I didn't even look in the mirror. I just looked straight at the tag, and it was two grand. And I was like, thank God. I was like, okay, I can. Like. My friend's not going to be embarrassed that he sends this poor, you know, his. His muggle, his non mag folks over peasant. And so anyways, I ended up checking out. Then he was like, well, you. You can't have this without that. He was like, well, you want to make sure that you have the little pocket thing and you want the socks, whatever. So I ended up leaving for 2,500 bucks. And I remember after I left, I was like, I spent five times more than I had budgeted for this thing. And I realized I was like, oh. But the key part wasn't just that there was something expensive. Number one is that you actually have to sell it. As in. Because sometimes people put anchors, but they don't really, like, commit to the anchor. If you just say it and then immediately, like, don't even acknowledge it, then it's just like, this is this thing we put in the sales process. I don't know why it's there. That's dumb. You have to commit to it. Because the thing is, is 10% of the time you have a whale and they'll fucking buy it. You're like, holy shit. But the other 90% of the time, the key is that the thing that differentiates the anchor from the core offer is a very negligible thing. And so for me, the brand didn't matter. Or like, he might be like, do you care what kind of wool this is? I'd be like, I don't care. Now somebody might. And the reality is they probably don't actually. They just always buy the most expensive thing, right? Like, Leila just always ask, what's the most expensive thing? And then she just buys it. That's how she rolls, right? She just always wants the best, you know, whatever. But the thing is, you want to have a model that allows for that. And if 10% of people buy something that's 10 times expensive, you double your revenue. So it's still worth it. And that. That's why the anchor should be super fucking high. And so that's an example of a different type one. But this one is a. Is a classic upsell, which would be positioned the way I said, which is a no based, a no based yes. We covered the downsell with a feature downsell and then continuity. Now you already have a continuity business, so there's no real point to like saying, how do we. How do we do that? But one of the, like, there's a different mechanisms that I use in that on that side. But one of my favorites is like something called a wave fee. So this works really well with expensive stuff. So we would say, hey, for us to go find this person, it's. It's 10 grand up front, or I can waive it if you commit to a year. And so you just waive the fee, but you get the commitment and you. And the thing is, it's like, oh, if you're not sure, then just pay the 10 you get. It's month to month. No, no sweat. And so with that also you say, and we would stack it so we'd be like, okay, we're going to waive the fee. We commit to a year, and if for some reason doesn't work out with Carlos, we'll get you, we'll get you another Carlos within 90 days or whatever. No, no cost. And so then it's like the, so you, you decrease cost and you decrease risk with the continuity and commitment. And we create artificial pain in the moment. Now what happens if they're like, hey, six months in, I want to cancel? It's like, no worries, just pay the fee, right, That I waived for the commitment. So it actually creates a very simple contract which is like, you just got to pay that on the way out the door. So it also increases stick. So that's like, it has like three prongs to it. That makes it. But it's very easy to understand, very elegant. And so that's one of the continuity mechanisms that I use.

[Alex Hormozi]

Hey, let's take a quick break. You know, HubSpot helped Tumblr solve a big problem. Tumblr needed to move fast. They were trying to produce trending content, but their marketing department was stuck waiting on engineers to code every single email campaign. But now they use HubSpot's customer platform to email real time trending content to millions of users in just seconds. And the result was huge. Three times more engagement and double the content creation. If you want to move faster like Tumblr, visit HubSpot.com all right, back to the show.

[Unknown Business Expert]

When I'm looking at a business, I'm running through the different mechanisms that we use. Like, okay, we're having issues. We're having a lot of friction here right now. I'm guessing because you're selling continuity on the front end, it's probably not a huge deal, right? Or, but maybe churn is, I don't know. But here it's like, okay, which part of this process needs to get lubricated? Is it we need to lubricate people coming in the door? And that's where you'd use a raffle or a giveaway or sweepstakes or something on the front end. Or it's like, you know, like, the thing is, is they're signed in for six, but we need them at 10. It's like, okay, well then we need to put more lubrication here. Or you know what, we're getting all these on call. Like 80% of the leads that are coming in are unqualified. We make the business decision, we, we want to sell to these people. Okay, we have a gross product, a gross margin, Product that's sufficient. That still makes sense. We still have 80 gross margins on this inferior product. Okay, how do we present it? And that's where the downsell would actually become really key. So I had a business that I close friend of mine had and what we did was for the downsell. He, we basically this super high ticket thing that we were selling. He's a PhD for health stuff and he does all this like really weird health stuff for people. I'll just, I'll just. If you have a problem, he's the last person you go to and then he fixes it. That's his whole thing.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And so what we did though is we created a downsell that re upsold people. And so they'd, they'd get sticker shock and he would say, no worries, if you want, I can do it for, you know, $2,000 less, but I just won't include a guarantee. And so then people were like, I kind of want the guarantee. And then they'd re upsell themselves.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And so the guarantee is worth that 2,000 to me, which actually gets to show you. So then there, there's becomes the art. And I talk about this in the book of how much do I decrease price versus how much do I decrease value. And so the play between those two, if you, if the more you study the customer, the more you understand which components they value the most. And so typically when I'll create a downsell structure, I'm going to think okay, the first down so I'm going to give is actually to re upsell the main thing. Now if they really can't because they, they clearly said no, even though it's a big, a big issue, then I say the next one I'm going to do is going to be a tiny thing with a large decrease in price. Right? And so the first one, it's like small decrease, big drop in value. You know what? I'd rather have the main thing. The next one though, I'm gonna have a bigger drop in price with a smaller change in value.

[Alex Hormozi]

At that point, price is actually the same.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Right. And so then, then it's basically how do I ethically lower my price without saying I'm selling different things to different people. That way I can change the terms rather than saying because I, I never discount, but I will change terms like oh no, they got something different than you, which is why they pay less. If you want, I can give you that, that's fine, but you just won't get what they're. You're Getting now. And so that's, so that's a little bit of a brief overview in terms of how I think through creating these. But you can see right now, like, if you were to do just even like a raffle once a quarter, it's like that would probably feed all your leads for the next whatever.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. And I think one of the best parts about this is every business has some version of this. Right. This is a different way of looking at a funnel.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

But the cool part of what I think you're doing with your books is you're basically taking the parts of the funnel.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Offer getting leads through the door, being able to actually sell the first thing. Sell the first thing to them. So. And how do you string together things to maximize the value you're getting for every that hard earned lead that you already, you know, paid for and busted your ass for?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And one of the things I like about this is that you've basically codified a lot of what the best people do, but they do it in their business, then they get rich and then they sort of relax. Right. Like, I don't need to go back, I don't need to even label what each of these things were. But you've sort of looked at it and said, okay, let's call that an attraction offer. What are five examples of those that I've seen? And then you're on the lookout for them. You see it in this business and that business and you start to put it together. So I think that's very, very valuable even as a, a structured way of brainstorming. Because I think most people in their business, most, most founders will understand. Yeah, I got it. I want to get more demand and I want to make more money per customer. But these vague wishes.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And I think the key is to sort of not be most people. I have this like, rant about most people. I'm like, you know, we try to fit in. That's our nature.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

But it's like most people in America are overweight or obese. Most people don't like their job. Most people get divorced. Most people don't have enough money to, you know, to pay for an emergency procedure. You don't want to be most people, yet you want to fit in. It doesn't really make sense. And so I'd love to understand from you where you see a lot of entrepreneurs.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

When it comes to money models, what do you see is like, what are your most peoples that you're seeing that if we just drew kind of like, here's how most people are doing this. And if you just made these sort of one or two tweaks, you're now not in the most people bucket anymore. You're operating in a different way. Your business is going to have a higher chance of success or be worth more.

[Unknown Business Expert]

I would say not enough entrepreneurs or students of business. And they're students of the thing. And so I'll give an example. So like I will never claim to know more about remote work business or H vac or plumbing or whatever. But like people fly out here not for that, but because a very good understanding of the variables that create money. And so it's like, okay, how can we arrange these variables? And then we will fit. Like you said the payroll thing, I was like, okay, great, you have a thing. I'm not going to be the one who immediately knows that, but I'll be like, there's a slot here that we're missing, right? And so one is they're not big enough students of business. Number two is a lot of times it's like, well, this is what everyone else does to your point of. And so like, well, I'll give you an example. I had a guy who did guard services, right? And so they, they staff like buildings like this, right, with, with guards. And so he had huge cash flow issues because he paper thin margins, but it's super sticky. People stay forever. And it's very commoditized in terms of competing for bids. And so, you know, after talking for, you know, extended period of time, I was like, okay, well why don't we just say that people pay quarter at a time and pay up front. It's just, oh yeah. And he's like, well, no one does that. And I was like, so let me give you the best overcome in the world. Someone's going to ask you and they're going to say, well, everyone else this. You're like, we've just always done it this way. That's all you have to say back. All you have to say, we just saw, that's how we've always done it, right? And as crazy as that is, that is still the number one over legitimate excuse. Yeah, it's still the number one overcome. Like when I used to ask for credit cards on the phone for someone to show up for, you know, training or trial or something. Like most places do not do that. But they'd be like, why do you need my car? Like, this is how we've always done it. And then they're like, okay. And so there's all this like it's so funny how some of these little lines just make huge differences in your life.

[Alex Hormozi]

Like weaponize the. The. The. The of most processes. It's like we're all so used to.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Processes, stupid policies, 100%.

[Alex Hormozi]

We're just like, oh, it's one of those.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Got it from management. And they're like, oh yeah, got it in. And so, so one is. But like when I had to spend probably 30 minutes with him to just like, just get him to just be okay with asking for the money, getting paid quarterly number one and getting paid before you do service rather than after you do service. And so I mean, everyone throws around the word first principles, but it's like very few people actually think from first principles. Like, what prevents us from doing this? And I think that's, that's like this is the constraint, cash flow. Then like, what are all the things we can do? Can we change payment terms, which is the first thing you're going to do if you have cash flow issues. Can we push our stuff out? Net 30 always right. Like, how can we change this, this cash flow balance in our business?

[Alex Hormozi]

What's the money model of acquisition.com?

[Unknown Business Expert]

So this is really interesting. So it's so hard for me because what I have to write about is not the rules that I have to live by. And so my favorite movie in the world is, is the Matrix. Like many people's. But there's the line in the Matrix when Neo's looking at Morpheus and he says, so you're telling me that I'll, I can dodge bullets. And he says, I'm telling you that when you're ready, you won't have to. And so all of the things that I write about, like even like selling tactics and things like that, they assume you have no brand. And so like when you have a brand, you have so much demand and so little supply that you can set your own terms. I can have zero attraction offer and make the absolute worst offer in the. I don't have to make a grand slam offer at all because I might say I don't want to deliver much at all. I will promise zero, I will guarantee nothing, but because then that'll still give me less operational constraints on the back end. And so at the end of the day, like the reason I have the two parts of my logo are this is a lever and this is supply and demand. And to me, those are the two biggest, the two biggest forces in business. And so like if you have.

[Alex Hormozi]

I always thought it was a whale's tail that's exactly what I say.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, but like those are the two strongest forces in business. And so all of these things are to help lubricate or create or channel demand. When you have little, when you have an ocean of demand, it's hard to lose. And so the model that we have is very different. It's almost like a ward away model of like we, you know, we invite entrepreneurs out here who we think are interesting, we look at the business and then we say, hey, change these things. Call us in a year. And that's, that's basically what we did. We took our diligence process that we were doing for multiple years and I was like, what? The, the catalyst for it was that we had, we're getting all these thank you emails. So all these founders come in from my content or whatever and they'd be like, you know, they took, we, my deal team took six calls with them and it was like, at the end was like, listen, these two metrics suck. Do these things. See how it works for a year, Give us a call. And they were like, this was the most valuable process I've ever gone through. And then I was thinking like, that cost me a lot of money.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And so I was like, what if I just charged for diligence functionally and then I got, then I could actually staff it better and all these other things. And so that's functionally what we do from the advisory practice that then feeds the deal side.

[Alex Hormozi]

So you have the content which creates the brand.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yep.

[Alex Hormozi]

What you did was you turned your cost into whether it's a profit center or break even, I don't know. But you know, something like this, this is your workshops.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

What did you call it? You called it something else just now.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Advisory practice.

[Alex Hormozi]

Advisory.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Okay. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

So this is your advisory.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And you say, okay, pay us five grand, come over here.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

But then you do have an upsell here to like more advisory, which is like.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. So we just do. So basically from there, it's, this is how we basically how we see value creation. And so we say like, this is our framework for creating value. If you like this, happy to help you. If you're like, this is cool, I'll go do this. Awesome. But the, the consulting side's true consulting. It's, it's one thing like they come, we identify the constraint. We say, okay, okay, well, we're going to go look at comps, we're going to look at the different ad strategies of people who are bigger. We're going to say, this is the funnel and this is the offer that we think you should do. And we say this is all you have to do. When you do that. Call us. And so it's. It's 100% from point to point. It's not like a ongoing thing. It's literally one time consulting. And that's the quote, that's the quote upsell.

[Alex Hormozi]

And then at the bottom here you have the equity side.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Where you're like great. The private equity side.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Right. Yep.

[Alex Hormozi]

You're going to buy the businesses that.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And the venture arm now which we do a lot of and venture. Okay, gotcha.

[Alex Hormozi]

Interesting. When you started how much of this was figured out as you go?

[Unknown Business Expert]

100% of it.

[Alex Hormozi]

Grand master plan visionary.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Well there's total neck some things remaster. Yeah, right. Yeah. Some things I would say the big goals for master plan all of this mechanics was absolutely figured out as you go. The books and how they've all been structured has been a five plus year plan. And you'll see what I do at the launch and why it's going to be awesome. But it will all be revealed. But the mechanics of the prices and how we do that that was very much born from. I am currently spending money on this team. We have way more demand than we have supply. Maybe if I can generate more revenue here I can staff it better. I can get more luck surface area because I can look at more of these deals. Because you've probably seen this like some companies look terrible on paper and then you meet them and you're like oh these guys are awesome. Right. And so we had to do so many like I mean we, we probably talked to 1% of the papers that we that would come in and I was like I know we're missing stuff.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And so that was, that was basically the thesis behind this.

[Alex Hormozi]

I mean I think it was brilliant. I was like wait a minute. So he's basically gets paid for people to come and open up the kimono. They get value too. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. These are not dummies. These are business owners. Like they should be making good decisions. But I was like wow, that's a.

[Unknown Business Expert]

The median size is 4 million. So it's not like they're not small business. That's median. So like there's plenty of like tons of good businesses. Every, every, every time we have a workshop top one's usually between 30 and 100. You know and there's plenty in the eight. Like every single. I don't think we've ever had one that doesn't have multiple eight figure companies.

[Alex Hormozi]

I want to play a game with you. Do we have the, the game here?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Oh, what is the. What is the game?

[Alex Hormozi]

So the game was this.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Ruh. Ro.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, so. So this is going to be a.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Game.

[Alex Hormozi]

That we're calling make it or take it. All right, so you're going to have to shoot. I. I know, I know you're not big into battle. We're going to have to get up for this.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, so you're going to take a shot. I'm going to see how far back we're going to go here, but I think we'll set that as the benchmark here. You make it, you're off the hook.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

You missed it. You have to take it. With one of the tough questions that.

[Unknown Business Expert]

We spin the bottle, I was like.

[Alex Hormozi]

I really like Alex. And I was like, what do people want? So I asked people, what do you want? An episode. The guy puts out a ton of content.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

You know, I'm not just going here to get views like, yeah, let's do something new. Let's do something fun. And so they were like, ask him some tough questions. So I said, okay, let me think of some tough questions, but let's make it fun how we do this. All right, so first shot, go for it. And then you get.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And then if you miss it, do I do the question?

[Alex Hormozi]

If you make it, yeah, you can ask me the question. That's fair. Or I burn the question. So it's up to you. So here's the question I have.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Okay, what's the question?

[Alex Hormozi]

Perfect. So the question is, what do your haters get right?

[Unknown Business Expert]

What do my haters get right?

[Alex Hormozi]

Meaning, you know, you get criticism, as anyone does, but sometimes there's, you know, some criticism is fair or there's components of it that's fair. So what do the haters get right?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Steroids is one. You know, he's just, you know, he's here for the money. I would say from like the, the philosophical angle, you know, I say there are people who are like, you know, the say that, like, Alex doesn't have a life. And I'm like, well, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty open about that too. You know, so it's like they will use a fact as an insult. And I'll be like, I agree.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

So that's.

[Alex Hormozi]

I think that qualifies. I think that's one. Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Like, yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

I mean, tending it as a hate or comment.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

But you're like, yes. And I agree.

[Unknown Business Expert]

I agree. Yeah. And if you, if Only you knew.

[Alex Hormozi]

And I'm open with that.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. No, because if you ask these, like, I'm here seven days a week. Like, I work all the days until I cannot work, and then I take a day, and then I continue to work again. And I. I work 12 hours most days. I'm usually five to five for six. And so it's.

[Alex Hormozi]

Is that a temporary thing? Are you, like, I'm in an era of my life where that's what I want to do, or you're like, that's who I want to be.

[Unknown Business Expert]

It doesn't feel. This doesn't feel like a push for me. Like, if I. If I. When I'm pushing, I work third shift, which is. I work 18. If I do that for an extended period of time, that starts to grade at me. But, like, 12s is like, that doesn't. Yeah, like five to five. Five to. I'm like, I still feel like I've got plenty of time to, like, chill out and do whatever.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, this episode is brought to you by Mercury. They are the finance platform of choice for over 200, 000 companies. Shouldn't be surprised because I use it myself for not one, not two, but I have eight different Mercury accounts. I have seven for different companies that I'm a part of. And then I have my own personal account because now they have personal banking, which is a really cool feature. I highly, highly recommend it. Like I said, I use it myself. And the reason why is because the way that Mercury works is beautiful. It's very intuitive, and you could tell that it's actually made by a startup founder. It's an entrepreneur. You could tell it's made by somebody who used other banking products in the past and didn't like all the different rough edges and annoyances and decided to actually fix it himself. And really, any type of entrepreneur you are, let's say you're an agency. Well, one of the things every agency has to do is be able to send invoices, easily, create them, send them to customers, and stay current on your balances with all your customers. Well, you can do that inside Mercury. And so I think that Mercury is great. Highly recommend you check it out. And thank you for sponsoring the show. For more information, check out mercury.com Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Check show notes for details.

[Unknown Business Expert]

So let's do another question. Yeah. Okay. Make it or take it.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, the next question.

[Unknown Business Expert]

All right, what do I got?

[Alex Hormozi]

I love it. All right. If I reset your bank account and your followers change your name, and face. So I reset you to zero, basically drop you in another. Drop you in another life, not another country. How long do you think it would take you to get rich again?

[Unknown Business Expert]

And what's rich?

[Alex Hormozi]

Rich would be, let's say, for the name of this podcast, my first million to make a million bucks. Get a million bucks in your bank account a year. And what would be the approach? So you're. You're back to nameless, Faceless. Alex.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Alex. Yeah. Well, having lost everything twice, I'll tell you what I did, which was I find a local business that's typically a service that I think I can sell for a lot of money, and they're typically undercharging. And so I will say, hey, how cheaply will you let me sell you? Basically, if I send you 100 customers, how cheaply would you do it? Would you charge me to do that? And so I get an agreement on price from them, and then I sell for whatever the hell I want.

[Alex Hormozi]

I brought you volume.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

What's the lowest you could deliver the service for that volume?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. And so let's say it's a back cracker. Let's a chiropractor, whatever. And I say, okay, how much will you crack back? Spread the absolute cheist. And he says, 25 bucks a session. I say, okay, cool. So I can sell packages of 10 for 250 and you're cool with it? And he says, yes. So I'm going to go and sell packages for three grand and I'm going to make the spread. And it's because I know how to sell. I know how to get leads.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right?

[Unknown Business Expert]

And so I mean, this, what I did, I mean, obviously I did it in the gym space, but that's. That's what I did when I lost everything. I just went to gyms and said, hey, but for them, I could. I negotiated zero. So, like, you already have all your cost basis. I'll just add you customers. And then after the first month. Exactly. So I would. I would take the first. The 500 bucks. I'd say, like, I get to keep that. And then after six weeks, you can confirm memberships are all yours. So zero CAC for you. I take all the risk. I do all the work.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And that's. And then I would. I did about 100 grand every 21 days doing that.

[Alex Hormozi]

Is there a better or worse type of service business that you'd go for? Like, knowing what you know now? Like, maybe I sold the gyms.

[Unknown Business Expert]

I for sure do healthcare.

[Alex Hormozi]

Healthcare.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Healthcare means what White lab coat, anything, any service.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Like pseudo. I call it pseudo medical. Okay, so that's where, like, I mean, that's why I like teeth whitening. That's. We have a chain of 28. 28 stores. Like, I love pseudo medical stuff. So laser. You know, laser. Laser skin stuff, laser hair removal, you know, the. The chemical peels. I love all that stuff.

[Alex Hormozi]

Like, the.

[Unknown Business Expert]

The beauty medical, like, intersection. You can just sell your eyes out. It's amazing.

[Alex Hormozi]

What's the. Why you love it? Because of the demand.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Because it's huge supply demand inequality. So there's. If you see. If you look at the stats there, it's insane. Like, the amount of demand of, like, boomers and all the stuff you, like, want to stay young. And the supply side on it is so low. And the reason I know this is because every single med spa that walks in these doors is killing it. And I talk to the founders, and I'm like, whoa. And I'm like, so how do you market? They're like, we just kind of, like, open up. We just. We just announced that we're there.

[Alex Hormozi]

Website.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. No, they're like, yeah, we have a phone number. People just kind of come in. I was like, they don't know that. That's not how it works.

[Alex Hormozi]

That's not how most.

[Unknown Business Expert]

That's how. That's how crazy. The supply demand differences. And they don't think about pricing. They think about nothing. They just. And they make, you know, 40%. They have no idea. And so that's why I signal for you. Yeah, that's. Yeah, 100%. When I. When I see a lot of people who don't know what they're doing, all making money, I'm like, okay, there's something there that's good. And so that's what I would do, because that's what I did do. Right. Thank you.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, let me get away. Let me get another question here that I want to do, because I got a couple.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, because it's like, if you need to make 100 grand to a million bucks, you could do that. Like, if you just. If you know how to generate leads locally and sell, you just get a service business that agrees to take customers for a price, and then you just sell as much as you can.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, go ahead. Well, then you get me to burn it.

[Unknown Business Expert]

You can ask, what are you doing? What did you get most wrong in the past three years?

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, I'll tell you this. I started with a bit of a portfolio approach. So I kind of had this thing where I Was like, I don't want to operate, but these guys are operating well. I can add a bunch of value similar to what you guys do, private equity, whatever. And I took minority stakes in several companies that have done well, but basically, when they do well and I add value, I just sit there wondering, why the hell don't I own more of this company? And I realized that I could have made more and really simplified my life with one great business. Like, it doesn't take many great businesses to get to the next levels of wealth. You know, business can be worth 100 million, 500 million. Like, they can get very big. And so I would have been better served doing less. And I got it wrong. I thought that I was being. I thought I was playing the game at a bit of a higher level, when in actuality, if I just kept it simple.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Picked one of those business or built one. One great business, I could have done better than I did. Spreading my focus with less work.

[Unknown Business Expert]

I made the same mistake.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, we did. We did 24 deals in 24 months, and then we consolidated down to five. Yeah. Like you. It's. I mean, it's 80, 20. You're like, wow, that was dumb.

[Alex Hormozi]

Power law applies.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Basically all.

[Unknown Business Expert]

It still rules. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

All right, let's do the next one.

[Unknown Business Expert]

All right. All right. Now I've got. Now I've got my. My.

[Alex Hormozi]

I gotta move the benchmark.

[Unknown Business Expert]

You just ask it. Whatever. All right.

[Alex Hormozi]

I was gonna ask you. This one's funny. Should entrepreneurs. Should successful entrepreneurs get a prenup?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Should's tough as a. As a frame. If it's your kid, it's my kid. Well, if they're my kid, they're gonna have my money. So. Yeah, I'd say, yeah, get it. I mean, for me, I. I asked Layla, basically, it's like when you. You wanna. You wanna have a prenup in the. When you have somebody who doesn't want to sign a prenup, like, that's like. That's the only. That's the only way I can say it. Yeah, it's actually Layla. And I. I thought I was, like, rich when I met Layla, which I wasn't. But, like, I thought I was rich. And I said, will you sign a prenup? And she was like, sure. Like, I don't care. I don't want your. And so we were on the way to the courthouse to get it, the notarized or whatever, and in a dramatic flare, I tore. I tore it. I tore it and threw it out the window because, like, it was so not a thing. She was like, I don't want your shit. Like, it's fine. And I believed her. And, like, we've built everything together, so. But I think that is very risky advice. And so I would say the vast majority of people should, like, should strongly consider it romantic.

[Alex Hormozi]

I like it. All right, here we go. I'm gonna give you one. Okay. I like this question, so I'll do this one. Oh, perfect.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Bumped in and out. I know.

[Alex Hormozi]

This is an easy one. This is actually not that tough a question. If you could only follow three people on X, meaning if you had to slim your content diet down, that's a really good bodybuilder mode, where it's like chicken and broccoli or whatever. Who's your chicken and broccoli of your content diet people? You genuinely. You genuinely value what they're putting out there on. I think maybe Twitter is one of your big platforms.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, I know it is. I mean, Elon would be one. So I have two more. Two more people to. To. To use. Oh, you know, it's weird. I'm actually. I totally, like, use Twitter. Like. Like, I just, like, let it serve me whatever.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And so I just, like, love all the threat. Yeah. I just, like, kind of, like, just let it feed me whatever. I'm trying to think about the other accounts that I would be like, oh, I would. I'd miss them if I didn't see them.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

It's actually hard. It feels like a year, two years.

[Alex Hormozi]

Naval would be one.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Okay. Naval is a good one.

[Alex Hormozi]

You know, the others, I mean, I would cheat and be, like, the news aggregator. So it's like, at least I get all that, but I wouldn't actually pick that.

[Unknown Business Expert]

You know who actually think puts really good content Anchor from Carrie.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. I actually like his stuff a lot.

[Alex Hormozi]

Interesting.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, I like his stuff that. Probably my second one. Just a very tactical, very. Oh, you know, I love George Mac stuff. Yep.

[Alex Hormozi]

George Mack. Although I'd cheat, I'd be like, just text me the thing.

[Unknown Business Expert]

George is really good. I actually really like Georgia stuff. Yeah. Now as I'm thinking about, it's like, say, hell puts good stuff out. Obviously, Williamson puts good stuff out. So, like. Yeah. Now that I'm. I'm thinking through, it's like I have, like, this blank. But no, I like. I think George. George just has some of the most unique takes, and I think that's why I like his stuff a lot.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. All right, well, thank you for playing. Yeah.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Thank you.

[Alex Hormozi]

Take it.

[Unknown Business Expert]

He took the Tough questions from Mozzie. Hot hands. Hard questions. Yeah. The, the three, you know, the biggest errors, man. That's a. Because it's like, which ones cost me the most? And then which ones did I miss the opportunity the most? So it's like I have. It's like I. Because like, just based on the, like, I thought I've really beat myself up on this. I have missed more $100 million net gains and multiple hundred million dollar net gains than I have made, which makes me really angry. But then I thought about it and I was like, you always say no to more deals than you say yes to, so you're always going to miss. You're literally going to miss more winners than you have.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right?

[Unknown Business Expert]

But like, but like every. I could tell you all, like, it's like I say their names before I go to sleep at night. Like, I like one of them. Yeah. And some of them I'm like, I should. Like, this one was in the. Like, I. There's no, like, there was a gym franchise. Like, buddy of mine, I've known him for years. He's been in the business for 30 years. He finally went on his own to start a franchise. And then I, I was like, we need to do the business this way. And he's like, I just, I just want to run a franchise. I was like, dude, let's just privately own them all. It's a great model. And I was like, I'll fund the whole expansion. And he's like, I've already sold 40 units. Like, I, you know, I don't want to flip back. And. And so it ended up like, not doing the deal. And he'll exit for probably 120 million. And this is in three years. And I was gonna. It was for 50% of the company. And I was just like, he was a friend. It was fitness for. I was like, there's. I should not have missed this deal. You know what I mean? There's a content creator that I love and have followed for more than 10 years. Talked to them. We were gonna get a 33% stake in the company. And from the time that I. We said no to the deal, I'd say 24 months later, they're now probably 150 million dollar company. And it's just like, I have a, I have like four or five of these ones that I'm just like, I should like, that was like that one. I said no because I knew the amount that he, he slash they wanted from me was going to be more than I wanted to commit to like, I could. They. It was like, I think they saw it as like an aqua hire. And I was like, I'm not gonna, like, I will do this, but I'm not going to dive in.

[Alex Hormozi]

I had a moment like this and in Silicon Valley, I was, Yeah. I thought I was saying my big miss.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

I was like, I forget which one it was. Maybe it's like calm or something. I was buddy with Alex and you know, he was like raising a. Probably like a 4 or 5 million dollars valuation. It's now 2 billion.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

So I could have easily written a check into com, disregarding the fact that at the time I had no money, was not angel invested. There's many reasons I missed that in addition to just not thinking it was going to be a winner.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

But besides that, I. I was telling some story about one of these. One of these misses and I thought I was like, sounding cool because I missed it. And literally I just got big dogged by this guy at Silicon Valley who was just like. He's like, okay, welcome to Silicon Valley. He's like, what are you talking about? Everybody. Anybody has.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Baskets of these. Are you kidding me? You want to start? Like, I could. How much time you got?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Facebook number one. Uber, first and second round.

[Alex Hormozi]

Exactly. It's like, oh, I wrote the check. I missed, did the date. You know, how many different versions of this? And he. But he said something smart. You know, he was first. He was like, shut up. Basically, he's like, shut up. You think this is like a really cool, unique story.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Not only is this not cool and unique, it's actually just a standard cost of entry if you're going to play this game. So, like, what are you talking about? But the second thing he said was he's like, I think you're taking the wrong lesson from this. Because I was focusing so much on what I missed out on.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Versus what the root cause analysis of. Why didn't I do this? Oh, okay. And I've actually since then changed this where it's like. Actually a lot of these misses were like, deals I liked, I wanted to do. They wanted to do it. We just didn't chase. I was kind of follow up.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Enough to like, make sure a transaction goes through because doing a deal takes a sprint at the end. And we actually like operationalized a bunch of those once. Once we got over ourselves and the, the kind of weird ego of missing, you know, life got a lot better for us. But I had to, I had to learn that the hard way.

[Unknown Business Expert]

But that's that was probably a big one. I. And then a lot of my big misses have been like, strategic mess ups. Like, one of the big, like one of the biggest errors I ever made at gym launch was I started Allen, the software company, and I should have built a CRM for gyms. And that was like, I had the right idea.

[Alex Hormozi]

What did Alan do if it wasn't.

[Unknown Business Expert]

It just. It worked leads. Because the biggest pain point they had was working leads. CRM wasn't a pain point from a monetization perspective. If I had put them all on the platform, then I would have all their metrics. I would have been control revenue. There's so many things I would have been able to do.

[Alex Hormozi]

You could have used the pain to get them into, like sticky forever product.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And so like, that was like, that was probably a $300 million mess. And so, like, that sucks. Like, I've. That's probably like my biggest strategic miss I've made where I'm like, I literally allocated capital to build technology and I built the wrong one.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Like, but I didn't know. I mean, I was 27, you know.

[Alex Hormozi]

On the other side of the coin, what are the biggest hits that have happened post the gym launch and whatever?

[Unknown Business Expert]

This building. So this was like an unexpected, like, wow. This was way, way more alpha than I would have.

[Alex Hormozi]

What do you mean by that? Like the. Literally the real estate value or you mean the fact.

[Unknown Business Expert]

So I bought this building before we did any. Like, it was just like, I just wanted a place of a gym. So, like, I was like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna buy a big building. And Layla was like, we don't. Like, we're all remote and we have like, you know, with the. On the. Just the pure holdco, I think at the time, with like 15 employees just on the investment side. And I was like. And so. And so anyways, I was like, I really want this building because it was the. It was old UFC building. It's kind of cool. I was like, I will figure out a way that it will pay for itself. Right? And so the only reason the advisory practice got stood up was because I was like, well, we have this space. I was like, let's just. I'll make a post to see if anyone wants to come out. And then that's what sprung. That's like, oh, there's huge demand for that in person versus remote stuff. And so then it was like, great. So we meet all these businesses and we generate cash flow. So it's like both things, but like, this for sure. Like that whole thing would not have happened if we didn't have a building. Like zero chance. I wouldn't have done it because it was just like, I have the space, let's try. I just would never have taken that leap.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

So that was probably a huge, like, didn't guess it was going to be a win win. That's probably like the biggest, the biggest one that's like that.

[Alex Hormozi]

Plus, I mean, you've got like, you know, Michael and a bunch of guys who are here all the time now, which I think it was very tempting and very easy to be fully remote.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And I think remote works.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Remote works, yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

But in like the business Olympics, the people who are serious about it, they're going to be together, they're going to be co located. You know, like, I paid Diego. I was like, move across the country, I'll pay you more. Just live. And the rule is here's a five minute radius from like where I live. Pick a place. That's the only rule of coming out here because you can't really replace that.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Oh, totally. We're 80, so now we're 80% in person. And so I think we're at like 90ish employees, something like that. And so the only thing that we allow as remote is infrastructure. So hr, actually HR is here. So like. But finance can be remote. Certain tech roles can be Reno legal can be remote.

[Alex Hormozi]

This has actually become my favorite podcast question. I don't know if you have a good answer to this because I think you're so locked in and focused on what you do, but it is. What are you like really interested in lately? Like what are you very obsessed with lately? That's not your core day to day work, meaning not like a hobby, but just like I'm kind of fascinated by this. Or just I keep reading about this or I keep wanting to meet people in this, doing this thing. What, what's that thing?

[Unknown Business Expert]

I only have two and they will not be. Well, one's the tried answer, which is like I'm reading up on AI just like you are and I spend a ton of hours looking into it. The other thing is completely unsurprising is that I'm actually really into gym equipment. Like I like my Instagram is gym equipment. It's gym equipment.

[Alex Hormozi]

Are we talking like novelty gym equipment or what are we like, like kind of like I get all these like your neck cracker Achilles?

[Unknown Business Expert]

No, no, mine's like commercial, like giant industrial. Yeah, like, like the stuff that you see at gyms.

[Alex Hormozi]

Like, and why are you so interested? What's. What's get me interested in it?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Well, if you, like, if you train hard, like, you start to notice that like, some. Some machines are better than others, and like, why are they better? And then you start looking at like, force curves for like, okay, where does the, you know, where's the tension the highest? And then it's like, does it correspond with where hypertrophy is maxed out for like, the range of motion for the muscle? And like, just the, like, what's the feel of the, of the equipment and the range of motion and the adjustability and, and like, what, like, what kind of bearings are they? Like, you can get. You can go like pretty far into this. Yeah. And so I'll say this. There's the. There's this a new thing that came out. It's called the Voltra. I'm not sponsored by Beyond Power. And I think that, I think In, I think 10 or 15 years, gym equipment will look very different. And it has not changed for a very long time. And it's because basically, magnetic resistance hasn't wasn't a thing, and now it is. And so like a vulture, for example, is. It's like a brick. It's literally the size of a brick. It's this big. It can get to 200 pounds of resistance. Right? But not only that, you can do single pound increments, which is amazing for strength work because like, most people. The, like, side note for anybody, a lot of reasons you get stuck at a, at a machine or on dumbbells is because the percentage jump is too big. Like girls with dumbbells, it's like the worst. They go from 20 to 25 pounds. For a girl, it's a 20% jump in, in, in in weight. And so they just can't make the jumps. They just get stuck. Whereas, like, the perfect gym would have literally a hundred dumbbells that are 1 pound, 2 pound, 3 pound, 4, all the way up. And then you can make this progressions much easier. So anyways, it goes single pound increments. You can also change the eccentrics so you can have it be way harder on the way in versus the way out. The next thing is you can change the curve so you can make it like really hard at the front. So for any kind of pulling movement, you want heavier here. Cause you're stronger here, lighter here. On the flip side, if you're doing pushing movements, you want to be lighter here, you know, heavier here.

[Alex Hormozi]

And you do that by just telling it the movement.

[Unknown Business Expert]

You can change the curve. You can manually change the curve. And so because of that, the European.

[Alex Hormozi]

Company, by the way, I don't know, I, I, somebody sent me this. They were like, because I was buying the, the Bowflex, like adjustable, like two dumbbells. But you could do all these weights. He's like, I really want to get it, get these. And I think that's probably new.

[Unknown Business Expert]

That's probably new.

[Alex Hormozi]

Okay, maybe that was the one.

[Unknown Business Expert]

That's probably what it is. But yeah, the best ones right now are the rep slash Pepin adjustables. They go to 120 and they're all metal. There's no plastic anyways. I mean, like I can talk a little bit, but that is probably my, I'll circle, I'll close the loop on the, on the Vulture thing. The reason I think it's so interesting is that like all the selectorized pieces, you see stacks of weight, right? You put a pin in it and there's a stack. Those, they take up so much room because you have to have room. You have to balance the piece of equipment from when people are moving it. And the stack takes up a huge amount of space. And from a shipping perspective, it's so expensive to ship £400 plus the machine, right? And so it takes more square footage, it's more expensive, it has smaller increments. You can't change the strength curve. There's all these reasons. And so they find like the tech is finally there where I think that there will be a next generation of machines where they will only have the electronic. Yeah, exactly. And you just literally plug it into the wall. And the thing is, the square footage will be smaller. The actual machines will be cheaper because this is Vulture's Gen 1. As soon, like, like in five generations, it'll be $200. Right now it's 2,000 for the brick. But it'll be cheaper than weight as soon as it's cheaper than mass based iron.

[Alex Hormozi]

Physics.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, yeah. As soon as it's cheaper than mass based wire, there's, there's basically no point to having mass base resistance. So I, I get very excited about that stuff because I think it's going to be really cool for gyms because I mean, I obviously come from that space. But the amount of things that you can now be able to do as a gym owner. Now, I don't own a gym right now. I do own a gym, but just not commercial. There's so many more things you can do with customers that like your ability to do like true hypertrophy training in a Large group setting. When you have that type of resistance, it's safer. You can't get hurt on it. Like there's all these things that are beneficial for it. So I think that that's my, that's my 10 year call that people aren't expecting. I think it'll, I think a huge amount will be magnificent. It'll be cheaper for gym owners. They don't break as often. Incremental. All the reasons I said, and it's less space.

[Alex Hormozi]

Dude, that was a sick answer. That was the one I was like, I don't even know if I'm going to ask him. I feel like, I feel like he's told me like I really liked writing this book and I'm like, okay, great.

[Unknown Business Expert]

No gym equipment. Have you seen my gym?

[Alex Hormozi]

No, I'll show you. Okay. Yeah, that's cool.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, you'll see it and be like.

[Alex Hormozi]

Oh, you said you're geeking out on AI anything. Like what's it you using it A ton. What do you use it for?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, I use it a lot. I use it. I mean I feel I, I just say I'm ashamed of. I use it all the time and I am ashamed at my use cases. I know I should be using it better, which I think many people feel that way. But I feel like at all levels everyone feels like they should be using it more.

[Alex Hormozi]

But there should be a word for like AI guilt.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Overwhelming sense of AI guilt.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. I think Elon has AI guilt. You know what I mean? So I would say the most interested part that I'm in for where I'm focused on AI is actually phones because obviously I come from the sales background and so that use case, like I want phone call.

[Alex Hormozi]

Like what do you mean by phone call?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Like sales calls, customer support calls. Like right now we have, we have fully implemented AI support and it's crushing. It's doing so it's like, it's amazing. So right now over 90% of all tickets are being resolved entirely with AI which is, I mean you have an E commerce but there are multiple. Right. Like it's so, it's amazing. And like the like I'm getting, I'm getting these thank you emails like you guys rock. Like this was two minute response. Like you guys are on it and like the whole thing's AI and so I'm like that it's obviously the text based side is there but like it's weird because the, if you let you like Grok 4, I'm sure you got the upgrade or whatever the Voice keeps getting joke. Like I grok's the one I use for voice. So it's the only one that I do voice stuff with. I do all the other stuff with the other ones. But I'm like, why? Like, it's so close, like the latency is so close that I just. That's the use case that I'm waiting to crack. Like we've been working on one for a year now and the latencies, but it's still like it's. It's like not. It's not good enough that I'd be like, I want to waste money on, you know, leads for it to call. But it's like maybe it's six months. But that's the one. That's the one that I have my finger like on the pulse.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I did. I hired an AI tutorial like basically every week because I'm like, it's a full time job to keep up with no cases. So I said, I'm going to sit down. I was like, I pay $500 an hour.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

What you're going to do is you're going to come with a list of like, blow my mind point one, Blow my mind point to. But I get to drive.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right. Because like you, you set it all up. But then like I get to be caveman.

[Unknown Business Expert]

That's how I learn everything. Just so you know, like. Yeah. That's how I learned how to run Facebook ads. I paid a guy 750 an hour and I said, just explain to me how you're doing this and then I'll learn it. I learned it literally.

[Alex Hormozi]

Coaches are like coaches for adults.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Is it like, I don't know why, there's maybe an embarrassment factor or like a lack of imagination or creativity. I think it's just like massively underrated, highest ROI money. Also the difference, it's like engineering, right? Like they had like 10x engineers. There's really like an average coach, a good coach. And like the best coaches is these orders of magnitude jumps in how good they are. So the other thing people do get wrong is they just take the first coach that they have versus like be really promiscuous and like, you know, go date around and like go find a coach that will just like rock your world. Because whether it's fitness or food or what, I have like probably six or seven coaches like in rotation now in.

[Unknown Business Expert]

My life for AI or in general.

[Alex Hormozi]

I know just general. Like I have a. My food girlfriend. She calls me every morning, helps me think about like, okay, how am I going to eat today?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And helping me like uproot all my bad habits through that. My personal trainer who does like very specific like functional training thing that I like and I do. I got a basketball coach. There's people like, are you going, you're not going to the NBA? What are you doing? It's like, well I love playing basketball. I decided like being better at basketball, not sucking.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Like this is more fun. It's like I can go to cardio or I can have like an NBA trainer train me.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Oh, it's awesome.

[Alex Hormozi]

Way better than just doing cardio, you know. So why am I, why would I not do that? So I just have a bunch but like it's, it's become to the point where it's like comical. It's like, yeah, I'm just like looking for an excuse.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Like no, but that, I mean what.

[Alex Hormozi]

Other coaches can I add to my piano teachers? Everything.

[Unknown Business Expert]

I'm such an advocate of this for anyone who, if we're still even rolling. But they've all left. They've all left.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, we're just hanging out.

[Unknown Business Expert]

No, but like I think the, some of the highest ROI money you can spend is one on one tutoring. Like just like, like every time I really need to learn something, what you said, like I just like I will pay you a huge amount of money to just sit with me.

[Alex Hormozi]

Which by the way is the killer AI use case. Right. So like that's going to be the thing where once we get it. I forgot what it's called. Have you heard like the Bloom two Sigma thing. Basically there's this long term studies, people want to fix education. So if rich people fund like how do we do it? And then they go do the research and they're basically like the number one way to get like an actual two sigma which is like standard deviation jump in outcome is one on one Tutoring problem is doesn't scale. So they wrote it off. So for the last 30 years we've just been like, well we know the thing that works doesn't really scale and can't be affordable. So we'll try all these other things. But it's like hey wait a minute, that's now, that's now viable. And so let's see what happens, you know.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Are you in Austin?

[Alex Hormozi]

No, I'm in barrier Alpha school.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. So I talked to, I talked to Joe about Alpha School and I mean the stuff they're doing is wild but the issues that they are encountering has nothing to do with Education. Yeah. It's everything to do with policy.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Such a pain. But it's like, okay, two hours a day we're moving at twice the speed. So that's, that's so 1/4 the time, twice the speed. They're moving at eight times the speed of a normal school and their scores are top 98 percentile. So it's like eight times the speed and the quality metrics there. And then the other six hours of the days, the kid just learns whatever they like. They code apps, they do public speaking, they do budgeting, they learn all these other life skills. And it's like, God, did you hear, did you see that clip by Alexander Wang? Hopefully I didn't scale again. Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Which clip was it? Well, he's like, I don't want a kid until it's nice.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. Until it's native. And I was like, man, that was.

[Alex Hormozi]

One of the more insane statements I've ever heard in a good. Like that's the good weird of Silicon Valley is you run into very.

[Unknown Business Expert]

He's on the edge. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

We'll say batshit insane stuff with a straight face and then you're like, wait, am I insane?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Or is he insane?

[Unknown Business Expert]

I can tell. Yeah, he's.

[Alex Hormozi]

He's probably right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

But he's crazy.

[Unknown Business Expert]

He has way more context on this, which is what scares me. It's like when you have one of those, it's like, well, you have to know, like if we have the same information, you might be crazy by my standards.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

But if I assume that you are intelligent and can make good decisions, then it means you know something I don't know. And so that's what frightens me from the AI.

[Alex Hormozi]

Or you have different values, but.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, exactly.

[Alex Hormozi]

But like, you know, Peter Thiel had a great. One of the great Peter Thiel, like sort of insights was when he was. Went around and he was like, university is a bubble. And he was basically saying like, you have to look at university as a bundle.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Education, great. Sure. 10%.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

You know, babysitting, you know, you know, maturation. Maturation of 18 to 22 year olds is what's their social. There's an insurance policy for parents where you're like, I don't know, just go to college. I feel like that's what I needed to do for you. And there's like a filtering thing which is like, well, we trust that Harvard filters you. So we. Yeah, we'll just trust their filtering process.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

So like college does all these different jobs and his take was basically like, if you want to disrupt it, you don't just disrupt the whole thing. You have to unbundle the bundle and figure out what to do. And so, like, I feel like this is just such a common business thing, which is like, oh, health care sucks. Or this sucks. Yeah, it sucks. Cool. But until you've realized that that thing is actually a bundle.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

You really have no shot at, like, upending it in any way. Right. You got to take one part of that bundle and just 10x that.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And figure out a way where the other stuff doesn't apply to you because you didn't promise that. And if you could do all that, like, it works, you know?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Like, you know, the way I think about what you do is you're a teacher on YouTube, which is not a surprise to you, but, like, people think of YouTube as, like, either a social media. Okay, maybe another. It's just content. It's entertainment. Right. But, like, dude, I got little kids. Ms. Rachel is the best preschool teacher in the world.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

She has 34 million preschool students.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Who watch her on her app. Great. Like that. She is the best teacher. Therefore, she should get this huge outsized number of students. And, like, Khan Academy was a great teacher. You're a great business teacher. Like, I literally look at YouTube like it's a high school. There's just classes to offer. Like, yeah, I can go to David Turner and get the history of entrepreneurship. That's an elective. I decided.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, totally.

[Alex Hormozi]

And like, you're basically like, business one on one or business or whatever. You know, Business fundamentals.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And it's like, great, I can go take business fundamentals with my professor, you know? And like, I think when you start to look at YouTube as also a bundle of music and entertainment and education, then you start to think about how I might use it differently than the average person.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

Because, like, both you and I probably wish we started on YouTube 10 years earlier and it was the people who saw YouTube as more than what others saw it that actually got that advantage.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, No, I think that's really good. Yeah. I think it reminds me of the naval quote that I like a lot, which is technology democratizes consumption and consolidates production. And so it's like. Which means if you're the best in the world, you get to do it for everybody.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And so, yeah, I actually, I think about that a lot when we talk about our channel, which is like, how do we. How do we just make this the best business content, you know, possible? And that's. I mean, that's the whole goal. It's like, if we just keep doing that, then we'll be okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

I think you're doing a pretty damn good job of it.

[Unknown Business Expert]

I appreciate it.

[Alex Hormozi]

The hard part is I'm curious how you do this, because at one point in time, I think I even talked.

[Unknown Business Expert]

About this on the podcast.

[Alex Hormozi]

I was like, I think he's great and smart. But then the problem with YouTube, because the goddamn views are public.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Is they give you an outer scorecard to use.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

That may not be the one you want. Right. And it was like, I remember once I looked at your channel and it was like, if you're broke, do this.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

If you don't have enough money for Chipotle, do this. I was like, dude, he's just gonna attract broke people.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

That's the opposite of what he kind.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Of like, wants, you know?

[Alex Hormozi]

Or, like, it's easy to optimize because guess what? There's more broke people who are more desperate that are on YouTube with a bunch of time to kill. You're going to get 2 million views on the broke guy video. But, like, I'm never going to click that. And you probably want some people like me clicking some of your content. And so, like, I think that's the challenge with YouTube overall, is like, if you take their metrics as your metrics, you might have a big problem.

[Unknown Business Expert]

It's 100%. It's so. Yeah, it's 1,000% a problem. And we. It's like, we just. We put as many controls in place as we can, and it's still tough. And so right now, here's where it gets like, let's. Let's peel a layer back.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Unknown Business Expert]

So where it gets really interesting is that if I make six videos, this is our actual cadence, five of them. I want to be business first, business deep, whatever we want to call it. And then one out of six, I say I'm okay to just, like, make it wide, brutally honest truth about whatever. Right. That one video will get more views than the other five together. And so then how much does that actually weight the brand? So even if I actually think about my input, production versus consumption. Right? So if I actually put my inputs, like, I might have a 50% philosophy, brand and 50% or, you know, motivation, whatever you want to call it, right? Like mindset, etc. And then 50% business, E. But in terms of my production, it's 90% of my time is business. It just, like, doesn't get the reach. And so it's Actually one of the things that frustrates me in some ways because like if I like if I get stopped on the street, I'm always curious like what was the. You know, what was the thing? And so. But like business owners for me because like I see the people walk in the door and you have to be at a certain level to walk in the door anyways is like they are more. More listening and reading in general. And like we have the. We have a whole series to do called Cash Cows, which is kind of like what we did with the Hormozi hotline. But I have them in person and then I do the whole, the whole thing and it's like an hour. And those ones right now average like 150,000, maybe 200,000 views per video. But like a brutally honest million. Like it's just like I could do. Like we could. Like we could do them right now. And like I know, like I know exactly what we're gonna say. But the. But when I ask who here likes those, who shows up, they're like, please keep making those.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

And so I have, I keep asking them just because I need the reinforcement.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, of course. You need an inner scorecard.

[Unknown Business Expert]

I need something the outer scorecard is.

[Alex Hormozi]

Only tell you one thing. So you have to like instrument like an antenna yourself to get the signal that you're actually looking for in a way that's not necessarily biased. But yeah, if I don't put up an antenna, there is no generic antenna for this.

[Unknown Business Expert]

You know, like also a little, A little tiny thing that maybe may be helpful, useful. But we actually just this quarter switched our metric. So we used views as basically the way that I did it before was like we will make content about these topics and then as long as they're within these topics, then we maximize views. So that's the, that's the constraint. And then maximize within that constraint. We have now switched to subscriber count. Subscriber growth even though subscribers matter zero.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Unknown Business Expert]

It's just. Yeah, it doesn't matter for distribution, but it's a great signal loyalty. Exactly. It's a quality score of like I thought this was valuable enough that. So now I can still do the same constraints on. On the content, but then use the subscriber because that gives us the. Because subscriber still has baked into it some element of reach. But if you. If I make a brutally honest video, I'm not going to get the same amount of subscribers. I am as like 13 years of business advice like one of my best videos ever. That's but hardcore business. So anyway, just something that we've switched to just this quarter.

[Alex Hormozi]

I, I, I can't figure. So I, I, I basically figured out what do I want, which I can't measure. So first was, what do I want? I was basically like, I created like, you know, you know, in popularity they have the Q score.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Okay.

[Alex Hormozi]

So I basically was like, give me the Z score. What's the Z score? The Z score for me is a trust score. So I was like, all right. Probably should have been a T score, I think about it. But it was the Z score, which is basically, I realized that all content, what you actually want is number of people reached times, the quality of the person reached times, the depth of their trust in you.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Sure.

[Alex Hormozi]

And basically that's the equation you ultimately care about. So, like, you can reach a lot of people on TikTok, but if they're just like, you know, if they're not the people you're trying to do, like. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, it's, you have to discount factor because you're not. Your second variable is not very good. And then the third, which is like, how much do they actually trust you? Not like they watch that piece of content or they like that thing or they hate watched it and you're like, yeah, I got views. But like, actually they're like, this guy's an idiot. Or like, you know, I hate this guy, right? So that's like, that's what I wish existed now. That's never going to exist. So I had to back channel it and basically a shame metric. So I said, if, if I make a thing, do I want to go put it in my favorite group chats? Me, myself being like, I made this, guys. There's a lot of shit I make that can get, that's popular that I would be, I would cringe putting it there.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Because they'd be like, bro, what the fuck is this?

[Unknown Business Expert]

That's a great bar.

[Alex Hormozi]

We don't need this or care about this. Like, what is this for? Why did you put this here versus other things? Like, I did this one thing that went nowhere virally. I did this. Like, I spent like two months just studying the process of creativity.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

I recently realized with AI is like productivity values going down and creativity values going up. So I was like, how do the most creative people in the world work? I've studied Elon and all those guys, but I actually have no idea how, you know, Seinfeld and Picasso and all these other guys, how they operate. So I studied that I put it together and I put it out there again. Went nowhere, kaput. But I've, like, internalized these lessons deeply, so it's still a win. But that was the one where if I put it in my group chats.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

My most successful peers were actually like, dude, this is actually sick. Like, I actually have. I didn't know this. I took this. I needed this, blah, blah. So I've had to use basically, like my own cringe factor of like, do I want to put this in there or would I feel like kind of stupid doing that? Would I feel like I need to soften it with some context and some excuses to put it in?

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, that's. I think. I mean, I think what you hit on is like such a painful part of. Of creating content is that the entire. The reinforcement system leads you away from the actual business goal. I mean, if you. If you do this for business, which I do like, it leads you away from your business goal, which makes it very. You just have to have a lot of discipline of, like, this is the stuff I'm going to make and it will underperform, and that is okay. And it gets harder when you. When you get. When you know how to make the stuff that really hits from a. Views and all that stuff perspective, the more, you know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, but, you know, I mean, this has been. It's probably one of the largest focal points that we have as for our brand. And I. I feel like it's an accordion. It's like, you know, if we. We do just hardcore, hardcore business content, and then we'll be like, all right, let's. Let's make a little bit of personality stuff. Let's show a little bit. And then it's like, oh, that did great. And then we're like, oh, fuck, we're way too wide. And then like, so I think we just kind of oscillate.

[Alex Hormozi]

One thing I wish you did more of just. My personal request was you did something. It was like a short or something. I don't know who made this. Somebody in this room might have made this. But it was like you were just talking about your figure. You wear. You're talking about your shoes.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, right.

[Alex Hormozi]

And I bought those shoes. And so, yeah, so, yeah, you hold your Darwin outfit. You're like, I can wear this in the rain and in the pool, and then I can get out of the pool, go to a restaurant, and it works. I can go for a whole thing works tomorrow. And, you know, I think that's great because first of all, first of all, I didn't feel like I'm trying to be the Kardashian, so it didn't feel like you were trying to show me something.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

It was just like, oh, you want to know, like, something I do in my life? Here's something I do in my life.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

What I thought was interesting about that was, a, it was a good find. You'd actually put real, like, your own nerdiness into, like, doing something for your own lifestyle. So it was like it meant something. But B, every time I wear those shoes.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

I think of you, and there's something to physical Anchorage in a digital world that, like, actually matters.

[Unknown Business Expert]

I'm a huge believer in that. Yeah. Side note. Like, huge.

[Alex Hormozi]

So I think this is, like, a little sauce there. And I think the other part of it was I said my. I, like, made a mission for the year, like, a masogi for the year. And, like, I thought it was, like, it should have been about, you know, business or, like, getting in great shape or whatever. But when it was like, oh, I know what I want to do, I was like, I want to learn to jam out on the piano. I was like. And so I just made that my mission, and I took it, like, incredibly seriously and, like, had a great time doing it. And so just yesterday, I just turn on. I just turned on a live stream on Twitter. I was like, I think they have this feature. I live stream myself doing, like, a piano practice. Not even, like, a performance. I was just, like, fucking around, like, trying to learn these songs. I'm not good. I've been doing this six months. Dude. I got so many DMs from, like, again, the same thing. Like, the people who I don't want to send my content to because I'm like, you're a billionaire. What do you.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

How to get rich from a guy 10 times less rich than you.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

But I got them being like, dude, I've been wanting to practice. I love how you made time for this. Is that what you. Which one did you get? What room is that? Who's that Teacher? How'd you find her? Do you think a teacher's better than the apps? And I got so many of those. That was like, there's something to the lifestyle content when it's really.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Like, I could talk about gym equipment, for example. Like, you can probably see that. I, like, I'll light up when I talk about it.

[Alex Hormozi]

Exactly. If it. If it genuinely lights you up and it shows. It's, like, for other successful people who I don't like, I've read all the books now. I don't really need a lot of like, how to grow my business. I'm actually pretty good at that.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Sure.

[Alex Hormozi]

And so like one cool way I thought your lifestyle stuff worked was it attracted me to that where I probably wouldn't watch like 10 of the other videos, but that one I was like, kind of interested in. Really interesting from a different angle. And I think you kind of turned the spigot off on that. I noticed. But like, my personal request is give me 10% of that back.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah. So this is the dichotomy that has to be managed, which is the thumbprint of the creator, in my opinion, should be the representation of their current life, which means it can change. Right. And so it's like I spend. Maybe it's like 10% of my time is fitness oriented. And so like maybe 10% of my content should be fitness oriented. And then probably 80% of my time is business oriented. Then maybe 10% of my time is philosophical and maybe 5, and this is now 105. But is. Is relationship, whatever. Right. And so it's like that, that's my mix. And maybe in a different season it'll change. And so the content should be. I was thinking it was like, should be glass. It should be like when someone meets me, it's exactly as they expect presentation.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Unknown Business Expert]

The only thing that fucks that whole thing up is the algorithm.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Because I can absolutely make that, that, that thumbprint. It's just that this one will get ten times the views. And so then if you're trying to manage the mosaic of your brand with all the little, all the little shorts as tiny little squares, it's just that you can't control how big the square is in the middle of the fucking face that you're trying to build. So that makes sense.

[Alex Hormozi]

But that's what I'm saying. Like those, that thing about your shoes didn't get a lot of views, but it made an imprint on me. I would say, like, I would carry more weight than like, I would say a thousand random views. Tim Ferriss said this once. He's like, do I want 10,000 random people selected at random somewhere in the world to like my stuff or half of Davos to be like, to really respect what I do. It's like, one's a big number, one's big, one's big value. Right. Like, which one do I want? Yeah, I think there's something similar there. And also like, you know, you were talking about, like, they have different wallets or different stomachs. It's like I only have a certain wallet or stomach for like educational business content. Me reminding myself I need to do more at work.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right. But I actually have other wallet share to give you.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Interesting.

[Alex Hormozi]

On another area. My fitness wallet share. You could get some of that. Yeah, you can get some of my outfit, wallet chair or my relationship wallet share as an entrepreneur dealing with, you know, busy but relationships. Right. Like, so think of it maybe with your own analogy.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Yeah, no, I really like that. That's. I mean, it's always I. We need to be reminded more than we need to be taught. Yeah. So I'm with it, dude. All right.

[Alex Hormozi]

We should. We should appreciate you.

[Unknown Business Expert]

Thanks for. Thanks for having. Thanks, dudes. I feel like I can rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it. Like no days off on a road, let's travel. Never looking back, my friends.

[Unknown Host]

If you like mfm, then you're gonna like the following podcast. It's called Billion Dollar Moves. And of course it's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the number one audio destination for business professionals. Billion Dollar Moves. It's hosted by Sarah Chen Spelling. Sarah is a venture capitalist and strategist. And with Billion Dollar Moves, she wants to look at unicorn founders and funders. And she looks for what she calls the unexpected leader. Many of them were underestimated long before they became huge and successful and iconic. She does it with unfiltered conversations about success, failure, fear, courage, and all that great stuff. So, again, if you like my first million, check out Billion Dollar Moves. It's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. Again, Billion Dollar Moves. All right, back to the episode.